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Feb. 26, 2024 - Dinesh D'Souza
50:59
WHAT’S UP WITH NIKKI? Dinesh D’Souza Podcast Ep777
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Coming up, I'll try to answer the question, why is Nikki Haley staying in the race?
I'll reveal how cell phone geo-tracking might have busted Fannie, or as Debbie says, Fannie Willis.
And Maria Espinoza, co-founder and vice president of the Remembrance Project, joins me.
We're going to talk about illegals who come here and commit heinous crimes.
Hey, if you're watching on Rumble or listening on Apple, Google, or Spotify, please subscribe to my channel.
This is the Dinesh D'Souza Show.
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I want to talk about, I was going to say two women, but really three.
Rona McDaniel and Nikki Haley and Fanny Willis.
Now, Debbie goes, Dinesh, make sure to say Fanny.
She's not Fanny, she's Fanny.
And I was saying, well, that's pretty funny.
She's funny. I guess it is F-A-N-I, funny.
Very funny. So I will try to remember that about her.
But let's start with Rona McDaniel.
Well, there's not a whole lot to say except good riddance, bye-bye, better late than never.
This woman has been a complete disaster for the RNC, so I'm really glad that she's finally, finally out with Why she even ran for re-election, I have no idea.
But she has been a disgrace all the way through.
And just look at the record that she's compiled.
But beyond the record of failure upon failure upon failure, it's also a record of inaction.
Can you point to identifiable, measurable gains that the RNC has made in the grassroots mobilization or fighting voter fraud, making it impossible or at least very, very hard to cheat?
Is there going to be surveillance on every mail-in dropbox in 2024?
Answer? I don't know.
It's in the election rules.
Why the RNC hasn't insisted upon this simple provision of the rules, I cannot tell you.
Except that the answer is Rona McDaniel.
Now, there's apparently this new guy, Michael Watley, or Waitley, coming in.
Laura Trump will probably be the co-chair of the RNC. Obviously, they have a lot of rebuilding to do and not a lot of time in which to do it.
Let's turn now to the puzzle of Nikki Haley.
And Nikki Haley is not somebody I've been hostile to.
I've had her on the podcast.
I think, by and large, she's someone who has come up in a kind of Reaganite, pro-immigrant side of American politics.
She was, as far as I can tell, a pretty good governor of South Carolina, a pretty good UN ambassador.
But now she's become a very nasty figure against Trump, trying to turn the screw in every single day, sounding an awful lot like an Adam Kinzinger or a Liz Cheney.
I don't know if that is her career aspiration, Because that is a way of writing yourself out of the mainstream of the Republican Party.
What's ultimately happened to people like Kinzinger, Liz Cheney, they became the darlings of the left.
They became the tactical weapons deployed by the left, deployed by MSNBC, CNN, sort of CNN's favorite Republicans, if you will, whose only job as a Republican is to bash the Republican Party, bash Trump, bash the Trumpsters, and And so is that where Nikki Haley is really headed?
Now, at the end of the South Carolina result, a Saturday night, there are people basically saying two things.
Well, let me read. This is Nate Silver, the pollster and sort of political strategist.
Haley is not going to win, but she's demonstrating that the non-Trump coalition, the GOP, is more robust than commonly assumed.
In other words, what people are saying is, this is Chris Hahn, 40% of Republicans in a very red state said no to Trump tonight.
That's the story. Nothing else.
Well, let's say something about that story first, because it's not unusual in a Republican primary for it to be reasonably competitive.
It doesn't mean that all these people are against Trump.
It may mean that Trump is just not their first choice.
They'd like to see somebody other than Trump, but they'll still vote for Trump.
This was true, by the way, if you go back to 1980.
Let's look at Reagan. Let's look at Reagan in the primaries in New Hampshire, where Reagan came in first.
But guess what? George Bush came in second.
There was a whole bunch of other candidates.
I don't remember if Jack Kemp was in it at that time, but they all got a bunch of votes.
So you couldn't say, well, 70% of New Hampshire said no to Reagan.
No, Reagan still came in first.
Ultimately, those Republicans voted for Reagan.
So this is, I mean, it's almost like we've forgotten what a primary is.
The other thing about Haley is that Nate Silva goes on to say, sets her well up for 2028 if he loses.
Now, I don't think this is true at all.
Because, quite frankly, if you just ask Republicans to make a list of their choices for, let's even take Trump out of the picture.
Let's put all the others up.
Let's put up DeSantis, Vivek, Throw in Mike Pence, Chris Christie, pretty much all of them, and you have the Republican base cast a vote.
I bet you that right now you would probably get DeSantis first.
There are obviously other people whose names are not in that mix who would probably get some decent numbers as well.
I bet you on a head-to-head Vivek would beat Nikki Haley in a straight-out one-to-one contest among likely Republican voters now.
So the idea that Nikki Haley becomes a kind of natural next in line for 2028, I think, is unlikely.
In fact, Nikki Haley is very much heading down the road of not even really Mike Pence, because Mike Pence sort of saw the writing on the wall, I think, somewhat preposterously.
He started out thinking, well, I'm the vice president, I'm going to be the guy.
Then he realized this is really not happening.
And he was clear-eyed enough to realize that, look, I just better get out of it.
And he's been kind of quiet ever since.
But Nikki Haley has not been quiet, and she wants to fight on.
And my guess is that she is being funded by, not only funded by Democrats, but there are Democrats when they can who vote in primaries to prop her up.
And this actually was allowed in South Carolina as it was allowed in New Hampshire.
It's not allowed, by the way, everywhere.
And so even when we say Nikki Haley got 40, well, yeah, but what percentage of that 40 was also made up of Democrats?
Because that should probably be subtracted.
Nikki Haley's number if you're considering her strength in the Republican Party, in her home state.
In other words, you would not expect her to be as strong in other states.
And she's now off to campaign in Michigan.
I looked at the crowd and I saw a picture today on social media and it's like, 40 people, 50 people at the most milling around.
And so, you know, this nomination, I think even the left is now realizing, is pretty well settled.
And let me talk briefly.
I'll talk more about this tomorrow because I'm going to go into it in some detail about Fannie Willis.
There's a hearing coming up, and I believe it is March 1st, in which these latest revelations are going to be looked at.
And what are we talking about?
What we are talking about, of all things, and again, more tomorrow in the nitty-gritty of it.
I'll go tomorrow into the meat of it.
The... The issue is cell phone geo-tracking.
Aha! And it looks like just as cell phone geo-tracking was used by our team, by True the Vote, to bust voter fraud in 2000 Meals, it is being used here to bust Fannie Willis.
How? By tracking Nathan Wade's phone and tracking it with a level of So regularity and precision and what you basically have is time after time after time he is making late night visits to Fanny Willis at a time when he said they were not in a relationship.
at a time when they both said we were not in a romantic relationship and yet here he is from like 1 a.m to 5 a.m in the morning uh evidently in the vicinity of Fanny Willis's apartment so he leaves what you see is he's actually talking on the phone to Fanny as he's driving and so the cell phone can actually he goes he pings off the cell phone tower near his own house and then you begin to see his car move it comes into the cell phone region of Fanny Willis's apartment or Fanny
Willis's residence it pings off of there and it stays off of there for hours and then obviously early in the morning he drives back to his own uh his own abode and then he's pinging back at his own house later that morning so So this is the tracking.
Now, what is the relevance of all this?
Well, the relevance of all this is that at the recent hearing, Fannie Willis tried to get out of the idea that Nathan Wade had spent all this money on her by saying she paid him back in cash.
And while that's on the face of it, hard to believe, preposterous, unlikely, implausible, the point is you can't really prove it is false because she could have.
And her dad came on to say, oh yeah, she had money at home and so on.
But they could not have been more clear to the judge where they said our relationship only began in 2022.
So no, I wasn't involved with him romantically when I hired him to do this job.
That would be a conflict of interest.
Our relationship developed later.
So if you're able to show...
That they had a romantic relationship before.
And I will tell you tomorrow that there is a 100% definitive way to show that.
It actually goes beyond geo-tracking.
It simply involves looking at the content of their texts.
Because these two sent...
Let me give you the number.
They had 12,000 interactions in 2021.
Texting back and forth.
12,000 texts!
Okay, let's take a look at those texts.
Those texts will settle the matter of whether or not they were romantically involved.
More on this tomorrow, but I think, and I kind of agree here with Megyn Kelly, that even though the judge seems kind of sympathetic to Fannie Willis, here's Megyn Kelly, they are looking at perjury charges and worse, discipline from the bar, she says, and there is zero chance they can stay on this case.
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Guys, I'm really pleased to welcome a new guest and in studio, Maria Espinoza.
She's known Debbie for a while through Debbie's days in Spirit of Freedom.
But Maria is the co-founder and vice president of the Remembrance Project, which is dedicated to drawing attention to victims, American citizens, who are harmed or killed, murdered by illegals.
This is an organization that's been around for 13 years.
The website, TRP, so the Remembrance Project, trp-usa.org.
Maria, thanks for joining me.
I really appreciate it.
Wow, we have...
Yes, thanks for having me on.
I appreciate it. A new case in Georgia, very tragic, illegal from Venezuela, is the perpetrator.
Tell us a little bit about this case, but also how this is a familiar story, sadly, for you.
It is a familiar story.
And, you know, Lake and Riley, a young nursing student in Georgia there, you know, just went out for a jog, which is what many women, and I'm a runner, many times I've gone out on jogs, you know, and just was attacked by this illegal alien who should not have been here.
He came through Texas and he ended up in New York and there was a child molestation charge and New York released him.
And he ended up back in Georgia and here an opportunity to kill this young lady.
And here we are again, a family of Lake and Riley is mourning their daughter.
Just like so many of the angel families have done and have had to suffer through because our government simply is not doing its job in protecting our borders, protecting our freedoms, following our constitution.
I noticed that in the media coverage of this incident, there was an effort to conceal the fact that it was an illegal.
So, I think this was in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
It might have been repeated on CNN. They go, an Athens man, meaning from Athens, Georgia, was the perpetrator, saying nothing about an illegal from Venezuela.
So... I suppose the underlying logic of all that is that there's a lot of crime in major cities, guys, and why are we singling out the illegals as if they're the only bad guys who are doing these things?
Well, I suppose my answer to that would be that in the case of the illegals, these are completely preventable debts.
Exactly. 100% preventable.
Exactly right, Dinesh.
And, you know, we find with the Remembrance Project, we honor and remember Americans like you see here in this Stone Life's Quilt banner.
These are children, you know, six children whose lives were snuffed out and should still be here.
But we find it very difficult in our research to honor and remember these good citizens because the media hides it.
And that's what takes place.
A Montgomery County man, just another resident.
But that's not so. And people are...
Are becoming more aware and knowledgeable and they're not depending on the media anymore and we're doing all our research but if we don't know who's here illegally and the crimes that they commit then how can we fix the problem?
I mean, I saw a report and I showed Debbie right away, which was that Maduro, the dictator of Venezuela, basically saying, you know, I've emptied out the prisons.
And now listen, I don't want those people back.
You took them. You know, you're stupid enough to take them.
In effect, he's saying, don't return them to me.
I have no interest in getting those people back.
So countries are, and I remember this is something that Castro did in Cuba, didn't he?
Yes, he did. Some time ago, where he emptied out the prisons and was happy to send people as, quote, refugees.
Correct. Now, Venezuela and also, I mean, Mexico's also released their prisoners, but they've also released their patients in mental institutions.
Correct. So that's what's running around our streets here, and I think all your viewers need to realize that it's very dangerous out there.
And I tell young ladies, you know, to arm themselves.
We have to protect ourselves, and you've got to be more careful, even in small towns, especially in small towns.
I was struck by the fact that in the Iowa caucuses and New Hampshire, this was a big issue.
And it surprised me because we think of illegals in Texas and California.
Of course, we've heard about them being bused to New York and so on.
But if it's popping up in Iowa, if it's popping up in New Hampshire, this is a nationwide problem, quite clearly.
And you're saying it's not just even in big cities, it's also now in plenty of small towns.
Absolutely. You know, for 10 years now, we've been saying that every state is a border state.
You can see the evidence in, like you said, Iowa.
Immigration is about half of their, I think it was a poll that I saw this morning, like 44% of Americans are feeling immigration is the main issue for them.
And economy, I think, drops down to in the 30s.
What do you think, Maria, is behind this?
Because, you know, there are a lot of laws in the country where the enforcement is poor.
So, for example, you maybe have tax laws and a lot of people do shenanigans on their taxes, but they don't get caught because the law is not enforced properly.
Or speeding. You'll see some guy going, you know, 80 miles, 100 miles past you, and you're like, where's the police when we need them to stop this lunatic, right?
But it seems that the border policy is different because this is a more, like, deliberate act.
It's like, let's open the border and pretend like we don't have laws.
And so, do you agree with the people who say that this is just part of a long-term plan to...
We remake America, remake the political fortunes of the Democratic Party, because surely the Biden administration is aware that these things are happening.
They're willing to turn the other turn away and not pretend not to see it.
Now, why is that?
Absolutely. There's several things going on.
I think if people understand that there is a faction out there that wants to destroy the Western civilization in a way, right?
The American way. So we have to start with that in mind that there are people out there who do not like America or Americans, right?
We want us to be communist, whatever it is.
You know, but it certainly is the destruction of America.
And there are several ways in which to do it.
And, you know, education is one.
And you can see what's going on in the education system.
Immigration is huge as well.
Overwhelming our entire country.
With people who don't understand their rights, our rights, you know, under the U.S. Constitution, Bill of Rights.
So they bring them in.
They don't understand anything about how America works, how we are governed.
You know, there are, you know, the economy and look at where we are.
I mean, we're paying, you know, three times as much for supplies and look at the food.
I mean, we can go through the entire list.
So if we understand that there is a...
Element out there that hates America.
And what better way to do that than destroy America by overwhelming us with people who do not like this country, don't understand how it works.
And it's certainly intentional.
And it's obvious.
You can see the influx of illegal aliens.
It's a wide open border.
And not even just the border.
Look, Biden announced it.
Biden announced it before he was even elected, I guess.
Yeah. Right.
So now he announced to the world to come in, you're going to get amnesty, you're going to get money, you're going to get subsidies, you're going to be able to vote.
And that's what's happening right now.
But I mean, what a scary thought that...
I mean, think about it. One thing to say that there's a bunch of, you know, angry professors who want to destroy America and they don't like the founding, they don't like, you know, George Washington because he was a slave owner.
It's a whole other thing to say that we have...
A president of the United States who is leading the campaign to destroy America.
I mean, that is a sort of a subversion from within that's almost unimaginable.
I mean, what would the founders think about that?
Right. It only makes sense.
I mean, we get asked all the time, why are they doing this?
You know, why are they up there in Washington, D.C., or even the statehouse here in Texas?
Why are they trying to legislate and negotiate with illegal aliens?
And I want them to all go home and stop wasting our tax dollars and come home and make sure that our rights are protected.
We don't get our rights from them.
They're there to protect our rights and that's also key.
And the very idea that illegals could be preferred over American citizens, I think is almost incomprehensible because, I mean, when you think about a liberal democratic society, it's based upon a social contract, right?
So, for example, things like Social Security is, you know, we work.
And we use that money to support senior citizens.
And the idea is that when we get older, there'll be other people working who support us.
So this is a kind of a social pact among the people who are citizens already here.
So the idea that you could have someone who's not part of this, who comes in from the outside, from another society, and it's like, okay, here's an ATM card.
Here's a flight so you can go to Chicago to see your long-lost so-called cousin.
Here's a court date.
Here's medical... I mean, this doesn't make no sense to anybody.
If you said to anyone else in the world, they would shake their head in just total bewilderment.
Exactly. And America's a laughingstock right now in the entire world.
You said so many things, Sinesh.
I want to touch on that. We are America last right now.
It's Americans' last illegal aliens first with this administration.
And you talk about Social Security.
You know, we've paid into the system all our lives, but yet here comes these illegal aliens and they come with their hand out because Biden is going to give them free everything.
And I sat right next to an illegal alien on the flight with money in a yellow manila folder and a cell phone and some documents and it looked like they had even a U.S. passport.
You know, they returned my passport because my photo isn't the right size or something, but yet an illegal alien can walk in here and they just hand them one.
I mean, just take the simple matter of getting on a flight.
Now, you and I can't get on a flight if we don't produce proper ID. If you go there and say, I forgot my ID at home.
Look, I'm a reasonable guy.
I've got some other things, but I just don't have my ID. I forgot it.
Can't get on the flight. No way.
And yet, illegals who nothing is known about them really are getting on flights all the time.
Absolutely. So they're exempt even from TSA security guidelines.
And we're paying for their ticket.
Right. We're paying for their ticket.
Yes. And, you know, the Biden administration right now is flying in illegal aliens from their countries with the CB1 program.
It's an online app.
They apply online and like 95 or more percent are, well, they're not vetted.
They're approved and we're sending our planes over there.
Bring them into our country.
It is madness.
We'll be right back with Maria Espinosa, co-founder and vice president of the Remembrance Project.
Website is trp, the remembranceproject-usa.org.
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Make sure to use the promo code DINESHDINESH. I'm back with Maria Espinoza, co-founder and vice president of the Remembrance Project.
Maria, as we were driving to the podcast, Debbie was saying to me, guess what?
The Southern Poverty Law Center...
Maria Espinoza has listed you, Maria Espinoza, as some kind of a racist because of your involvement with the Remembrance Project.
Because we love America and we want to be a voice for the victims who were killed by people who shouldn't be here in the first place.
Yes, I'm all over the SPLC website and ADL as well.
They don't like when people stand up for rights or for the rights of people who no longer have a voice.
I mean, it's almost like they, so do they consider you like the Latina face of white supremacy or something like that?
I suppose so.
Your focus is on, I mean, when you say the Remembrance Project, to remember not the illegals, but to remember the lives.
Yes. That have been foregone, right?
The lives unlived because of people who are victims of crime.
Now, give us some idea of how, like, the magnitude of this problem.
When did you become aware of?
How did you get involved in this?
Great question. Actually, I'll preface it by saying this, that I am a former legal assistant, trial lawyer's wrongful death.
And I left that field because of all the death.
It was just too much.
And now, God led me here.
And I would never have thought that I would be doing this.
And also, what really intrigued me and why we started, Tim Ling, my husband and I, watching the TV news one evening, and we saw the case where a Houston police officer, Henry Canales, was killed during a scene by an illegal alien.
But the reporter talked about Another case, Rodney Johnson, police officer, who was shot in the back of the head by an illegal alien years ago, and that his wife, Jocelyn, also a police officer, filed a lawsuit.
And the lawsuit intrigued me.
What went so wrong? And the death, I mean, in-line duty death, it's all horrible.
But what went so wrong that could have prevented that death?
And it was an illegal alien that he should not have been here in the country in the first place.
And that struck me, you know, struck a chord with me because my father immigrated the right way from Mexico, first generation.
And I just thought...
Certainly this is wrong.
Certainly laws are being enforced upon people who shouldn't be here, and they shouldn't be here in the first place.
And there we learned about sanctuary city policies.
Never heard of before.
I think a lot of people now know what sanctuary city policies are.
But back then, you know, 14 years ago, we didn't know.
And I thought certainly two, three years that our elected officials who we have faith in would...
Do something about this and make sure that these laws are enforced.
But sadly, and surprisingly, and maybe naively on our part, they knew and they just refused to do anything about it.
So we were up in Austin plenty of times testifying.
I've testified before Congress as well in 2017 on national security, sitting right next to the Border Patrol Council president.
You know, what is a little Latina, right?
Right. Doing in Congress, trying to champion voices of these children, for instance.
And we can't stop.
We absolutely cannot stop because look what's going on.
Your dad came as an immigrant from Mexico.
I'm an immigrant. Debbie's sort of an immigrant because her mom was from Texas, but her dad was Venezuelan.
And we know that there is a legal process.
Absolutely. So when people say things like, well, immigrants have benefited the country, we're not talking about any of that.
We know that that's true.
But what you're saying is that there is also a very ugly underside of people coming here illegally.
And maybe some of the illegals come here because they're scared of cartels or they're coming here just looking for a better life.
They should still do it the right way.
But there's another element of gang members, of criminals, And we have no process, am I right, of sorting that out and keeping these people out?
Because what information do we have on some guy coming, not just from Mexico, but faraway countries that are even beyond Mexico?
Absolutely. You know, number one thing I think people need to understand is that nowhere does it say that the United States has to let anyone into our country.
So that's the baseline.
Nowhere does it say we have to let anyone into our country.
And, you know, number two, they need to understand that the cartels control the entire southern border.
And anyone who negotiates with the transnational criminal organizations, you know, you owe them.
So let's keep that in mind when you know someone is looking to hire Domestic help or lawn or whatever, you know or any construction worker Any job to help aid in the bed illegal a bet illegal aliens to remain in the country so there are plenty of times that there are painters or Corporations even companies even set up by illegal aliens that they're running and taking orders from the cartels so let's that's that is very scary and
You know with all the killings and all They're not accustomed to how how to behave in the United States as well. So I think that's also They've shrugged our laws, so what difference does it make to shrug another law?
Maria, what was your experience prior to Biden with the Trump administration?
How did they handle this situation?
Because the problem of illegals goes back quite a while.
Yes. But of course, the degree, the magnitude of it, the number of people coming over, and the type of people coming over isn't necessarily the same.
What would be your kind of report card on the Trump administration?
Well, the Trump administration, well, first of all, Donald Trump, the candidate, was absolutely fantastic in 2015 when he came down those escalators and said that Mexico isn't sending the very best.
I told our families that we were working with and our state coordinators to get on the airwaves wherever they could on social media and say we support this man's words.
I didn't know very much about Donald Trump, honestly, but we continue to be pushing, I guess, kind of Gravitating to him, though, because of what he was saying.
And then, very unfortunately, the killing of Kate Stiley just a month later.
So we were there to say thank you for speaking out and displayed all the Stone Life's Quilt banners that we had.
Memorializing hundreds of victims.
So Donald Trump was fantastic.
He listened. He actually created the Office of Voice, Victims of Immigration Crime Engagement.
My husband wrote a draft white paper for that.
And, you know, he invited us up when they opened and rolled it out.
Tom Homan was there.
He also, Donald Trump, as president, he created, he signed a proclamation, excuse me, indicating the National Day of Remembrance as the first Sunday of every November.
Nowhere! Could we ever go and get that, you know, recognized?
So we extended that National Day of Remembrance into a Remembrance Month.
And I brought our remembrance flag here.
I can show it.
It's a little garden flag.
But we would like...
A police officer helped design this.
You can tell.
But we want this to be displayed...
All year round, but especially in the month of October, to unite people and let the families of the victims know that we stand behind them.
Just yesterday, one of the families, and it gets a little emotional.
Texted and they have reactions, you know, after they see these, you know, killings.
And it was over Miss Riley's murder.
And, you know, it just throws them back into what they were going through.
And they're, you know, they asked for continued prayers, everyone out there.
So please pray for our families.
I'm sure it brings up the sheer futility of it.
Absolutely. Like the why.
Their own government not listening to them.
Right. You're being betrayed by your own leaders.
Yes. Do you agree with people who say that really, in some ways, 2024 is the year that America hangs in the balance?
Because if you were to take the policies that we've seen over the last almost four years and project them out another four years, It's kind of hard to see what's going to be left of the country.
Correct. And I thought four years ago that this was the most important year of our lives.
Every election is the most important.
This one truly is.
Once again, it gets worse and worse when you just think that it can't get any worse.
And it does. And it is.
You've got millions of illegals here, and they are separated into wherever these cartels wanted to send them, and the Democrat Party as well.
Do you think that the rank and file democratic voter is okay with all this?
I mean, it's hard for me to believe that people who vote democratic and probably will vote democratic this year are good with the idea of a porous border, all kinds of bad people pouring in, terrorist threats, multiplication of crimes in the country.
So, do you think that this is a case where the media is culpable in preventing that information getting out to the democratic base?
So do you think that this is a case where the media is culpable in preventing that information getting out to the democratic base?
Because, you know, look, if CNN and the New York Times and CBS News reported it, the ordinary democratic voter would know about it.
Because, you know, look, if CNN and the New York Times and CBS News reported it, the ordinary democratic voter would know about it. And maybe if the ordinary democratic voter knew about it, they would vote differently. And so to prevent them from voting differently, of crimes in the country.
And maybe if the ordinary democratic voter knew about it, they would vote differently. And so to prevent them from voting differently, we get this media culture of lies, right?
And that's why you're such a blessing, Dinesh.
We want the truth out there and to tell people, yes, I'm a former democrat, decades ago.
Mom and Dad were very supportive of John F. Kennedy.
We're not talking about the same Democrat Party, though.
It's very different. And that's why there are so many Democrat voters who are fleeing the Democrat Party now.
And that also is probably the reason that the Democrat Party is trying to bring in more voters now.
And want them to vote, these illegal aliens.
So, no, they're, I mean, look, the Democrat Party removed God from their platform.
So, we're looking at, you know, family, faith, and freedom.
You know, so, no, people are fleeing from the Democratic Party and the media is absolutely culpable in not giving the information, true information out there.
I mean, you still hear that the border is secure.
It's not secure.
Maria Espinosa, thank you very much for joining me.
Thank you. And Dinesh, let me tell you, the petition is to help keep a killer in prison.
So the parole is coming up and the family has asked us to help out.
And this is one of the things that the Remembrance Project does is support the families any way we can and also with the Champlaincy Program.
Yes. Thank you, Dinesh.
I'm discussing the case for Douglas in Harry Jaffa's work, The Crisis of the House Divided, a study of the Lincoln-Douglas debates, and I hope to conclude today my defense of Douglas so that I can then begin The argument for Lincoln.
And the argument for Lincoln is more than just an argument for Lincoln.
It's actually a study of Lincoln's great speeches and of his thought.
And so we can learn a lot about Lincoln, and we can also apply some of those lessons about Lincoln to the situation that we're facing in the country today.
Now, Douglas was the leading champion of the Kansas-Nebraska Act.
The Kansas-Nebraska Act arose out of the question of what to do about Kansas.
Kansas ultimately was also split, and that's how we got Nebraska.
And the Kansas-Nebraska Act was based upon Douglas's cherished idea of popular sovereignty.
Let the people of Kansas and Nebraska decide for themselves if they want to have slavery, yes or no.
And this notion of popular sovereignty superseded the old idea, which was based on a kind of regional or sectional compromise.
I mentioned both the Missouri Compromise of the 1820s and then also the Compromise of 1850.
That was all based upon the idea that we will let the states south of the Mason-Dixon Line make up their own mind about slavery, but no slavery north of the Mason-Dixon Line.
Welcome to my show!
Ultimately, it was the tremendous reaction against the Kansas-Nebraska Act, which Douglass had hoped would be a new type of compromise, a compromise that would work, that would hold the country together.
But it didn't hold the country together.
And it didn't hold the country together because, ultimately, this compromise was viciously attacked from the South by the Calhoun forces.
And also from the North by the free soil forces led by people like Charles Sumner, who was a senator from Massachusetts, and also by very powerful Northern newspaper editors, people like Horace Greeley, who was the editor of the New York Herald Tribune.
Now, Douglass at one point earlier in the debate had given a speech responding to Calhoun where Douglass said this.
He said, I said that the senator from South Carolina, by the violent course pursued here, in other words, by the violent course pursued by the pro-slavery faction of the Democratic Party, has contributed to the result which we deplored, and the abolitionism at the North was built up by Southern denunciation and Southern imprudence.
Now, Douglass is making here a very subtle point, and that is he's making the point that extremes have a common interest against the mean.
In other words, extremes tend to work to support each other, and they tend to strengthen extremism, and they weaken the forces of centrism and of compromise.
So, in other words, here you go.
The abolitionists go, we've got to burn the constitution.
We've got to get rid of slavery now.
And then the southerners go, the Calhoun people go, look, those guys want to burn down the very constitution on which the country is founded.
We need to rally more strongly pro-slavery.
And then the northerners go, look at the southerners.
They don't just say slavery is a necessary evil anymore.
They now say it's a positive good.
We need to ramp up our extremism or our fanaticism.
Ultimately, remember John Brown goes to the South.
He murders a bunch of slave owners.
He's ultimately hanged.
So you can see what's going on here is that Douglass is trying to hold these extreme or centrifugal forces together, but to do that he has to denounce them both.
And ultimately what happens to Douglass is that despite his attempt to create a compromise that works, his compromise is angrily rejected by both extremes, and this is what sets off the forces that lead to the civil war.
Now, what was Douglass kind of hoping for?
Well, Douglas was hoping that his principle of popular sovereignty would not only be a principle that all could unite around, because it was ultimately a principle of decentralizing the conflict.
I mean, think about it today. We have arguments to the effect that, look, if we take the abortion issue, which is a divisive issue nationally, we decentralize it, we let states make up their own mind about abortion, then you will have liberal states having more liberal laws and maybe conservative states having more conservative laws.
And by and large, each group of people is represented in the sort of, the laws reflect the mainstream of opinion in that part of the country.
So this is Douglas' idea, the same idea, which is that the compromise should satisfy the North.
Why? Because Northerners don't have to have slavery if they don't want it.
They just voted down.
Similarly, it should satisfy the South.
Why? Because Southerners can have slavery if they want it.
They just have to vote it up.
And the same principle applies to new territories and new states.
Depending on the people who move there, they can have slavery or not, depending on whether or not they want it.
So Douglass thinks, how can reasonable people be against this?
But, and here's where the whole thing begins to implode, the Southerners come out, and this is a bill introduced by a guy named Dixon, an amendment to the Nebraska bill.
And it says this, Citizens of the several states or territories shall be at liberty to take and hold their slaves within any of the territories of the United States or of the states to be formed therefrom, as if the said act had never been passed.
Wow. So, this guy Dixon is introducing an amendment, basically saying, listen, it doesn't matter.
Let's say that Nebraska decides we want to be a free state.
No slavery. No slavery.
Dixon's amendment goes still, even you can be a free state if you want, but if Southerners decide to take their slaves from Louisiana or from South Carolina to Nebraska, then they remain slaves in Nebraska, there's nothing Nebraska can do about them, and the slave owner maintains his full rights even in a free state.
Now, this is totally unacceptable to the northern states because their point is, the whole point of having a free state is you should be able to pass laws that say, listen, no slavery over here.
Frankly, don't bring your slaves over here.
If you bring your slaves over here and they run away from you, we have a right to proclaim them free because, after all, they're on free land, they're on free territory, they're in a free country, so to speak, the free part of the United States where there is no slavery.
And so the idea that the slave owner maintains his full rights in free states is like a deal-breaker for the North.
At the same time, partly provoked by this, there is a powerful letter, a public letter, released by Senator Sumner and others.
It's called the Appeal of the Independent Democrats in Congress to the People of the United States.
So these are Democrats in the North, Northern Democrats.
But they're breaking with their own leader, Douglas.
And they're saying, in effect, enough.
They say, we arraign this bill as a gross violation of a sacred pledge, a criminal betrayal of our precious rights, a part of an atrocious plot to exclude from a vast unoccupied region immigrants from the old world and free laborers from our own states and convert it into a dreary region of despotism inhabited by masters and slaves.
So suddenly you have this faction in the north basically saying that what Douglass is trying to do...
Horrendously, is convert northern free states into slave states.
Because after all, if it is the case that the slave codes, the slave codes are codes for catching runaway slaves, if slave codes in the South are now extended to free states and northern states, then it means in effect that slavery is legal throughout the country.
So this is what happens is that the extremes in a sense come together.
They come together from each side and they pummel the mean.
They pummel the guy in the middle who's trying to make a compromise.
So here you have poor Douglas and Douglas, I think, looked at it from his own point of view.
He's not a pro-slavery guy and he is trying to find a way for the free soil movement in the north and the slave owning factions in the south, by the way, both of them are in the Democratic Party at this time, to hold together, to find a way that they can coexist.
And what is happening is that the southerners are getting more extreme and saying, no, we're not even satisfied with this compromise.
And the northerners are then saying, in return, we aren't either.
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