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Jan. 5, 2024 - Dinesh D'Souza
50:16
HIDDEN SCANDALS Dinesh D’Souza Podcast Ep741
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Coming up, Debbie and I will do our Friday roundup.
We're going to talk about Hunter Biden.
We're going to talk about Jeffrey Epstein and the Epstein list.
We're also going to talk about the phenomenon of Javier Millet in Argentina.
And what progressive policies have done to America's most beautiful state.
Yes, I'm talking about California.
I'll also explore the four types of love outlined in C.S. Lewis' classic work, The Four Loves.
Hey, if you're watching on Rumble or listening on Apple, Google, or Spotify, please subscribe to my channel.
This is the Dinesh D'Souza Show.
The times are crazy, and a time of confusion, division, and lies.
We need a brave voice of reason, understanding, and truth.
This is the Dinesh D'Souza Podcast.
Debbie and I are here for our Friday roundup, but here we are in our...
Well, I guess this is our new set.
Our new format. Our new set.
Well, you were instrumental in helping to set it up, and I think it's a more...
We used to sit side by side, and I think it was a little unnatural because...
It was, because we never sit side by...
When do we sit side by side?
Right. In a restaurant, we've been more likely to sit across.
Yeah, no, I'm kidding. And it's easier to talk that way.
So, in any event, the...
Let's start talking about the Epstein, the Jeffrey Epstein list.
Well, it's not really a client list.
It would be better if we had the client list from, you know, Gill and Maxwell.
These were the list of all the customers, or at least these were all the patrons.
This is a flight log list, but it's still revealing.
And also excerpts from testimony in which people, in fact, victims of Epstein are being interviewed and names are brought up.
Prince Andrew, Bill Clinton.
So let's start with Bill Clinton.
I mean, this guy... He likes him young.
I mean, not a big surprise, right?
Clinton was a regular.
That is...
Okay, if that man doesn't creep you out, this should creep you out about this guy.
We know he's a sexual predator.
We've heard from his victims.
And so this doesn't really surprise me at all.
Does it surprise you? Well, no, but again, this information appears to be coming out too late for there to be any accountability.
In fact, right away, I notice even media reports, no one is claiming that there's any illegality.
Right. Well, if you like them young...
Probably you've done something illegal.
I mean, I'm just saying. Well, why are you there?
What is Clinton's reason for his multiple trips?
And then Prince Andrew.
I mean, pretty outrageous and shocking.
I think you were telling me that the royal family is on to this guy.
Well, somewhat, but I don't think they have shunned him completely.
I don't think that they have completely done away with him.
Like, as in, we don't want anything to do with you.
Because I think he's still there, especially after the death of Queen Elizabeth.
I think she was the one that was like, I want nothing to do with you.
And then I think his brother, King Charles, is like, it's okay.
You know, we're going to overlook this.
So I'm not really sure how it's going down in their world.
In that world. Yeah.
But it is pretty interesting how the Bill Clinton, you know, I guess, scandal was hidden right before the 2016 election.
Right. Right. On purpose.
Like, we don't want this to come out because it could damage Hillary Clinton as the candidate, right?
So they hid it.
That is even worse, I think, than the scandal itself.
But it goes to show you how far the media is willing to go to hide the just...
The most sordid behavior.
Yeah, horrific behavior.
Just to get their guy, in this case Hillary, across the finish line.
And it's not the only time because, as we were talking a little bit ago, this is exactly what happened with Hunter Biden and the laptop in the 2020 election.
Exactly right. So a replay of another scandal, probably of the same, also of big magnitude.
Yeah, I mean, this one, this one involved a little bit more of a like, I guess, a foreign scandal, I guess, than this, but, but nonetheless, it was still a scandal. And it could have kept people from voting for for Joe Biden. And and of course, because the media because he was the darling, as Hillary Clinton was the darling, they, like I told you, a couple of days ago, I said, it's really interesting how they make up scandals about the
person they don't want.
And they hide the scandals of the people that they do want.
So right before the 2020 election, they'll drop a Stormy Daniels accusation or the Whitmer kidnapping hoax.
Notice that that came out just two weeks before the election.
And there's not enough time to figure out what really happened.
And there's Whitmer. Yeah, there are all these white supremacists who are trying to kidnap me.
Even though Whitmer knew from the beginning that this was orchestrated, this was a setup.
In fact, she let the FBI in to install all these sort of surveillance devices in her house.
So while the kidnapping plot is brewing, she is...
He's appraised about it from the beginning.
So this is the fictional scandals that are used against Trump.
Right. And don't you think, you know, people are alluding to, oh, yeah, Trump was on that list.
But don't you think if Trump was really on that list, like as if he was really going to Lolita Island and doing all the shenanigans, don't you think we would have known that in 2020, you know, at least 2020?
For sure. For sure. Maybe in 2016, because then they would have had to bring in the Clinton angle.
But for sure in 2020, when the Clintons weren't around on the scene.
So I don't think there's any merit to that at all.
I mean, there's no evidence that Trump went to that island at all.
I think he's mentioned because Epstein wanted him to go to the casino, wanted him to do that.
And he was like, no, you cannot be underage.
You have to be 21 to be in a casino.
And I think he was trying to get these girls in there, even underage girls, obviously.
And I think that the Trump, I guess, team said no.
I mean, you're so right about the media cover-up because remember that time when the ABC journalist Amy Roach was caught on a sort of a hot mic and she was like, Epstein.
Is her name Amy Roach or Amy Robach?
I'm sorry, you know what? It's not Amy Roach.
It's Amy Robach. Yeah, Robach.
That's what I thought. She's like, we had the goods on Epstein, we had the connection to the Clintons, but the higher-ups would have nothing of it.
They suppressed the story.
And so, I mean, I guess part of what is so creepy about this whole thing is that there is evidently a...
Pedophile ring at the highest levels of our society.
And it involves Hollywood.
It involves...
The left! Imagine that!
It is on the left.
It is on the left.
There's an ideological component to it.
I mean, this is... This is sort of a vindication of Alex Jones because, I mean, Alex Jones would talk like this years ago and people would go, well, that's a little – and I even thought, you know, some of this stuff is a little bit out there.
You mean he talked about the Epstein?
No, he just talked about a ring of pedophiles who are in the highest positions of media and government.
Yeah, you remember they tried to say that that was a Q thing, remember?
Right. That it was all fake and that – None of it was true.
None of it was true. It turns out, I think, all of it is true.
Or much of it is true.
It's looking like it, anyway. I mean, look at this little tidbit here.
This is from Technofog.
Magician David Copperfield was a guest at Epstein's house.
They were described as friends.
And it even says that Copperfield turned to one of the girls and said something like, are you aware that this guy Epstein pays girls to go recruit other girls?
So let me get this straight.
I did see that.
Does that mean that Copperfield knew that Epstein was a pedophile?
Yes, I think it does mean that he knew that that was the way that they were recruiting all these girls to come to the island.
Then why on earth would he go to this?
Well, the only explanation is that he was part of it.
I mean, at some level. I don't know.
They're not saying he...
They say Copperfield performed magic tricks and asked if she, quote, was aware that girls were getting paid to find other girls.
So Copperfield acts like a guy in the know.
He's like, are you aware that girls are paid to find other girls?
But that's very strange. Now, here's another name that will surprise you.
No, no, no. Who are you thinking of?
Michael Jackson? Well, Michael Jackson was...
I wasn't going to go there. Stephen Hawking.
I mean, you have to laugh, right?
The guy in a wheelchair, the guy with this paralyzing disease who can't speak.
Apparently, he was a freak.
And he had all these sexual fetishes.
And one of his sexual fetishes was to see midgets naked.
No. Yes, no, it's true.
Where did you read that? This is all in the Epstein files.
You're missing the best parts.
Clearly you're just skimming the surface.
Well, I was happy to see that even though Michael Jackson was mentioned, I don't think he did anything.
Well, you're a big fan of Michael Jackson.
Yes. Well, musically. Yeah.
Because Jackson was using it.
Right, right. And then I asked you this morning, I said, is Bill Gates mentioned in any of this?
And you said, no, not yet.
Not yet, right.
I'm not sure if we've seen the full release of the names.
So they're focusing on the prominent names that are already out there.
You know, they keep denying that Clinton wasn't at the island, but I saw that Netflix special where they interviewed one of the caretakers at the island, and he said Bill Clinton was a frequent visitor of the island.
So, how does that...
Well, I think that these files appear to be corroborating that, at least from what I've read.
But why do they keep saying, but nothing he did.
It was illegal.
We're not saying that Bill Clinton did anything illegal.
La, la, la, la. Because once they admit that Clinton is part of a pedophile...
I mean, think of how... The left can't...
There are certain things they don't want.
It's very difficult for them to...
Even if the evidence is staring them in the face...
Because the harsh truth about themselves that then becomes publicly confirmed is too much for them to bear.
I mean, look, it was hard enough for them to do the Claudine Gay is a plagiarist.
They kept saying she uses duplicative language, right?
So all these euphemisms aimed at camouflaging that offense.
So somehow the word left-wing and Bill Clinton and pedophile, they can't bring themselves to say in the same sentence.
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We want Debbie and I to talk about the new president of Argentina, Javier Millet.
And normally, we love to focus on this guy's crazy...
I mean, not crazy.
they're crazed sounding but in fact extremely intelligent outbursts and sometimes expositions but we shouldn't ignore the things the guy is doing because this is like a message to the Republicans here in this country it's not ultimately just about what you say and promise It's like, can you deliver?
Now, I read somewhere that what Millet has done is he's invoked a kind of economic emergency power by saying Argentina's economy is in shambles, 100% inflation.
It's like an economic wreckage.
And this gives him power, which is important because he does have a legislature that is not friendly to him.
But he's able to do certain things unilaterally.
And look at what he's done. I'm going to go through a quick list and have you sort of comment on it.
This is in a very short period of time.
He has eliminated 12 out of 21 cabinet posts.
So he's cut the cabinet like in half.
He's fired 5,000 government employees.
He's ended 380,000 government regulations.
He has banned woke language in the military.
He has introduced a bill to affirm the right to self-defense, bill to legalize homeschooling, which I guess was not common in Argentina.
He has a proposal to punish all organizers of riots.
And his new thing with people who do demonstrations and block the roads is he's going to cut their welfare benefits.
It's kind of a marvelous way to concentrate their mind.
It's like, oh, I'm going to go protest.
Oops, I'm going to lose my welfare benefits.
He has privatized state-run companies.
He has opened up the Argentine oil industry.
So all of this. Amazing.
Right? Absolutely amazing. And the other thing about it is that this guy is...
I think he's analogous to Trump.
He's a cultural figure. You even say that his haircut, which is really out there, it's like a rock star haircut, is part of that image, right?
I think he's one of a kind.
I really do. I've never seen any politician...
Say or do the things he does, really.
I mean, anywhere in the world.
Right. I mean, first of all, start with just a simple fact that he does not hesitate to use massive obscenities.
Oh, yeah. He loves that.
The F word, ram it up your rear end.
Oh, no. I mean, he does not hesitate, right?
And the other thing is that politicians normally are habituated to agreeing with you and also maintaining a certain cordiality.
Whereas... Whereas he'll be interviewed by someone talking about the poor or talking about why you sound very uncompassionate and you expect him to go, well, I'm not being uncompassionate or that free market capitalism is truly...
He doesn't go there. He goes, I don't care.
Right? In other words, he basically just says, who cares what your feelings are?
And so this is a guy, I mean, to me, his slogan is, I've had it.
And he is a, in that way, so different than the whole generation that we grew up with.
Yeah, and he's kind of, you know, it's funny to say this, but he is a, I mean, he's such a kind of a reformative guy, you know, it's like he is going to set the pace for the rest of the MAGA world, if you get what I mean.
Because you know, we were joking about MAGA being Make Argentina Great Again, but it's the same concept that we use with Trump and Make America Great Again.
It's basically saying that the socialist ideology, the socialist policies do not work.
In fact, they hurt.
And I think that's what he's trying to tell people.
This is why Argentina went the way it went.
This is why inflation skyrocketed.
This is why the poor became poorer.
This is why no one had any money.
He explains it in a way that not very many people can, but he is an economist.
That is true. I mean, we don't have someone of his intellectual caliber who is in the political sphere doing that kind of thing.
The closest example I can think of is Vivek Ramaswamy, but Vivek is an entrepreneur.
He's not an economist, but he's an entrepreneur, and he is able to go to things at a depth that is surprisingly rare in our politics.
But Millay... It's way beyond that in the sense that Millet will take obscure economic theories, sort of an economic effect.
He'll talk, for example, about how the government by itself produces nothing.
Now, we know this, but it doesn't really sink in.
I mean, we go to Washington, D.C., and we took Justin, my stepson, your son, to Washington, D.C., and he was very taken by the spectacular buildings, the Department of Agriculture, Department of Education, Department of Energy.
But if you ask the question, how much agriculture does the Department of Agriculture produce?
None. How much education does the Department of Education produce?
None. All the wealth of the country is generated in the private sector.
And the state is a parasitic sector that is doing nothing more than draining the private sector.
And yet he goes, think about it, the politicians who are doing this act like they've produced things, which I think is really important.
When I was in Washington, D.C., I used to always look at these statues of these people and I was, you know, sort of taken a little bit by, oh, this guy, the, you know, the Robert Byrd Memorial Highway.
And leave aside Robert Byrd and, you know, the Kukla. Let's leave aside all that. We don't, we're not talking about all that.
What we mean is Robert Byrd didn't build that highway.
Right. It was built with private capital.
Robert Byrd simply secured the appropriation, which is the seizure of the money of the taxpayer to put the highway, and his name goes on the highway, as if to say, I did that.
You did nothing. You didn't create one penny of the wealth that built that highway, or that library, or that medical center.
But think about how wealthy these politicians become.
On our backs.
I mean, really, it's crazy.
And I'm sure in Argentina, too.
I was going to say, if Millet succeeds in really building up Argentina, making it great again, maybe he'd be a great candidate to move to America and make America great again in 28, right?
That would be really funny. After Trump, you know, kind of his successor.
Well, he needs to learn English. Oh, he doesn't know English?
No, because every time we've seen him, he's speaking in Spanish with subtitles.
I mean, you obviously know Spanish.
Yeah, so I know. But he's speaking to a Spanish audience, though.
Have you ever heard? Maybe he speaks English.
Yeah, I wouldn't say I know that he doesn't speak English.
Maybe he doesn't. Yeah, he might.
I need to ask some people at Noem to see.
I mean, there are other figures worldwide, Nigel Farage, and of course, Gert Wilders, and now Giorgio Maloney in Italy.
But I'm not aware of anyone who has this record of accomplishment in such a short time, and has created such a sensation as Millais.
So I think he'd have to be one of the leading figures of the global.
I told you, he's one of a kind.
He's one of a kind.
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And Debbie brought to my attention a...
article, was this Vanity Fair? Vanity Fair.
And it's an article, pretty in-depth article.
I mean Vanity Fair sometimes runs long pieces but this article, I mean you printed it out for me and it's like 40 pages long.
It's called The Golden Dream.
And the theme of the article is that, well, I'm going to read the subtitle.
California knows it's a state in crisis, its leaders know, residents know, the rest of the country knows, but how it got here and whether the way out is any kind of model to follow, nobody can agree on.
Now, they're acting as if California's got some problems, but there's a bunch of far-seeking progressives who are trying to solve these problems.
And when you were reading the article, you said that you thought you were in La La Land.
I mean, you thought you were in a different planet.
You could hardly make sense of what these people were getting at.
So explain that. Yeah, so it just seems, it's very strange because they all of a sudden make it seem as though the problems that California has are not the progressive policy problems, the Democrat problems, but they're our problems somehow.
Because we are the ones that don't think that climate change is real.
Yeah. And they're saying that California is being affected by climate change.
So we're destroying California, right?
And then the gun issue.
It's our fault because we don't ban guns.
The conservatives don't ban guns.
So it seems like everything that is bad in California is not because of the policies of the people that run California, but rather the policies of the people that don't run California.
Right. So I was like, what is this?
What am I reading?
It's an upside down type of world because let's look at those problems, you know, one by one.
Homelessness, right? The homeless problem is created by California setting itself up almost deliberately as a magnet for the homeless.
Right. Second, when the homeless get there, do whatever you want.
Live wherever you want.
Spit wherever you want.
Defecate wherever you want.
Pick the chicken wing off somebody's plate if you want.
And so the homeless are...
Entitled. Right.
I mean, I remember that in India, there used to be...
There's a holy place called Banaras.
And people talk about, and this goes back to the days of the British, the sacred apes of Banaras.
They were these so-called sacred monkeys.
And they were allowed to do whatever they want because they're sacred.
So they would come and defecate on people and so on.
And no one could do anything because they're the sacred apes of Banaras.
And it became kind of a looping...
joke. Well, people would, you know, do paintings and you'd see the sacred apes in there. Well, this reminds me of the homeless. They enjoy this kind of sanctified existence. They do whatever they want. By the way, they temporarily cleaned up the place because Xi Jinping and others were in town. I see that it can be done. It can be done. It can be done. The moment those guys left, it's like back to normal. Back to normal. And this means that the leaders of California
have complete contempt for their own citizens.
It's kind of like... I don't get it.
You're not our priority.
These guys are our priority.
But why? What is the point?
I mean, California is so beautiful.
As you know, I fell in love with California when I was a child, came to America to visit and...
And I thought, oh my goodness, it reminded me a lot of Venezuela because of the topography.
Gorgeous. The ocean meets the mountains, all of that, right?
So I was like, why is this place?
Well, I mean, this is a key geographical point, isn't it?
There are parts of the country, like Colorado, where you get the mountains.
Yeah. And then there are parts of the country where you get stretches, Florida, stretches of beach.
Or lakes. Right. But when you go to places like Big Sur, where you see the tall trees and a little further north, the redwoods, and then you have the huge rocks and mountains, and then right there...
You have the roaring ocean.
The roaring ocean. Ugh. It's an almost – there's this kind of spiritual dimension because it's like God's creation is concentrated.
I mean, the first time I went to Big Sur, we had to stop the car because I couldn't stop crying.
I just was so overwhelmed by God's beauty, and I just – I had to like just – So here you've got a state which has all these advantages, and the advantages are all free, right?
In other words, and so you can do a lot of bad things in California and people will still want to come.
I'm just laughing because my cousin told me that if he ever makes it to America, he's going to move to California.
Little does he know. You'd be like, yeah.
Oh, yeah. But no, it's true.
It gives them – and not just the homeless American citizens.
The illegals get treated like royalty in California.
And I think I know why that is.
It's because if – the California dream of the Democrats is their American dream.
So when you look at Biden's border policy, what is the real goal – To tip America into a one-party state.
Right. They've already done that in California.
California is a one-party state.
And how do they do it? How do they take Nixon country and Reagan country and make it a one-party state for the Democrats?
Boom. Illegals.
So illegals, they've tried it in California.
They've proved it can work over time.
And it took a long time.
I mean, when we think of Nixon, we're going back to the 60s and early 70s.
With Reagan, of course, we're talking about the late 70s and early 80s.
So in about 30 years or 40 years, they have destroyed it.
Well, look, I mean, this is kind of what is going to happen to America. In 40 years, America will look like California.
Right.
And that's why I say...
And the theme of this article is that that's not necessarily a bad thing, because the premise of Vanity Fair, and Vanity Fair, they exist in their own world.
Yeah.
And they're not just on the left, but I think because they're on the cultural left, they're combining this kind of leftist artistic sensibility with no understanding of policy at all.
And they don't even care about it. It's not important to them. To them, and the article reflects this, politics is really all about style.
You notice how this reporter approaches the topic.
Yeah.
He goes and hangs out with Nancy Pelosi.
Yeah.
And he talks about her sunglasses, and he talks about the fact that...
And how she likes ice cream, and she puts chocolate syrup on her ice cream.
Exactly. And then he goes to Hollywood, and he's hanging out with...
Who's the guy from Hollywood?
The Hollywood mogul Katzenbach, I think it is.
And Katzenbach talks about his marshal.
Think about it. You've got Jeffrey Katzenbach, Hollywood agent.
And he's like, let me tell you my marshal plan for the homeless.
So this is the Vanity Fair world.
Yeah, yeah. It's very skewed.
But it also shows that...
It shows when I think one of the cardinal weaknesses of the left...
And that is that they don't do any scrutiny of their own policies.
No, they blame.
I'm telling you. Right.
In other words, no matter how bad the policy is, they will never correct it because they don't acknowledge that it's failing in the first place.
Exactly. Because they don't acknowledge that that's the reason it's failing.
Right. But they blame the other side for that failure, even though it is their policy that is the failure.
Right. But you're right. I mean, you can do this in politics.
You cannot do it in normal life, right?
I mean, if you or I start a business and the business is hemorrhaging money, right?
The fact of it is something is going wrong right here.
And you can't start with...
Blame the customer. Right.
Blame the customer. Exactly.
Or you've got to say there's something wrong with my product.
And that's why it's not finding.
But they're never going to admit that there's something wrong with their product.
Never. Never.
And so the way they do that is that they have to create solutions for problems that they themselves have inflicted.
It's kind of like saying, I'm going to take an axe and deliver a blow to your knee, and then I'll supply a bandage.
For you to bandage your knee.
And I think this is a lot of what's going on.
They'll say things like, well, the problem of the homeless is that we just haven't built enough public housing for them.
And they don't realize that the homeless aren't looking for public housing.
If they were looking for public housing, they wouldn't be in these tents.
They would be in the public housing now.
They'd be in public housing now. Yeah, because they are available.
Public housing is available. Yeah, it's available.
Yeah, and then the gun issue, which was interesting because apparently Gavin Newsom, he just signed a bill that is going to essentially make it illegal for anybody to carry a weapon in a church,
in a movie theater, in a restaurant, any public place, library, school, whatever, and And so, again, they're blaming the gun issue on the citizens instead of on the criminals or on the people that have mental issues, right? So they completely ignore that component of gun violence.
And to be honest, I can't think of a single incident where a law-abiding citizen just went crazy.
And shot at people.
I can't think of a single instance that that happened.
Every single one is either a disgruntled employee who's already kind of crazy, or a crazy person that should be in an institution already, or a criminal that shouldn't have a gun because he's not supposed to have one, right? I mean, in almost every case, it's a clear failure of...
some liberal system.
So for example, here's a guy who's nuts.
He has been subject to multiple mental evaluations.
In other words, in almost every case, they already know that there's a guy who's deranged.
And yet he's out there, he's doing his thing, and finally he pulls out a gun and kills 20 people.
And then they go, the gun did it, or the solution is to suppress the rights of law abiding.
Exactly. But what's going to happen is that law-abiding citizens will keep their guns at home, and no one will be able to stop the lunatic.
Right. No, absolutely. Well, the other thing that's happening is that I would say that people's desire for guns is increasing because when you see crime multiplying and you see all these attacks on the cops, and then I keep reading about the fact that this police department in Wisconsin has resigned and this police chief has committed suicide, then I say to myself, well, the whole case for me not having a gun or protecting myself is that I'm going to rely on the cops.
But if I can't rely on the cops, which you normally can anyway, I mean, if you have a home invasion or a mugging, you're on your own.
The cops are going to show up later.
But you have to handle it in that situation.
And so you're going to say that the more lawless a society is, the more imperative it is for you and me to be able to protect ourselves.
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It's D-I-N-E-S-H Dinesh.
If you'd like to support my work, I'd like to invite you to check out my Locals channel and become a monthly or an annual subscriber.
I post a lot of exclusive content on Locals, including content that's censored on other social media platforms.
On Locals, you get Dinesh Unchained, Dinesh Uncensored.
You can also interact with me directly.
I do a weekly live Q&A every Tuesday.
No topic is off-limits.
I've also uploaded some cool films to Locals, documentaries, feature films, both mine and films by other independent producers.
2,000 Meals is up there and a new film.
It came out late last year.
If you're an annual subscriber, you can stream and watch all of this content for free.
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It's free to check it out.
Dinesh.locals.com.
I'd love to have you along for this great ride.
Again, it's Dinesh.locals.com.
I'm going to dive right into C.S. Lewis's minor...
Slim, but I think great work.
It's called The Four Loves.
I spoke yesterday about Lewis' background, the fact that he is known as a Christian apologist.
We will see some discussions in this work about Christian love, about God's love, about the special relationship between God and his prized creation, mankind.
But we find that this is far more than a book of apologetics.
It is a book of observation.
It's a book of insight.
Someone could be not religious at all and read this book and get a lot out of it.
And this is particularly true in discussing the first three types of love, but it is also true in discussing the fourth type of love, which C.S. Lewis will call agape, agape, Christian love, if you will, charitable love.
But even charitable love can be understood very much in a human sense.
Even though Lewis means it both in a human sense and in a divine sense.
Now, Lewis in his early career was a literary scholar.
He was a medieval literary critic.
And that's important because we find that in this book, he doesn't just discuss examples from ordinary life, but also examples from literary life.
He'll be talking about something that happened to him around a fireplace in Oxford, and that's ordinary life.
And then he will make an allusion to Don Quixote and Sancho Panza.
This is of course, the great work from Miguel de Cervantes.
And so what is the value of doing this?
Why would you go from ordinary life to literary life?
Why would characters that are fictional somehow contribute to our understanding of human nature and of the four types of love?
Well, the answer is that literature widens our range of experience.
Think about it, the way you or I live, our experience is pretty confined.
And I don't just mean it's confined because I haven't traveled that much.
Even if you've traveled a lot, the fact of it is you are born into a particular place.
You are socialized in a particular way.
You live in a particular time or era.
And you are, in some senses, bracketed or confined by that.
Whereas, think of what it means.
When you read a work like Don Quixote, you get an idea, this is the imagination of a very different guy, Cervantes, who lives, he's essentially living in Spain in the 16th century and writing about a medieval period that came even a few hundred years before that.
Don Quixote, in other words, is a 16th century man, a squire, who fancies that he is, in fact, a knight living in the Middle Ages.
So all of this suddenly takes us into a world kind of unfamiliar to us, but one that is...
Still recognizable to us.
The characters like Sancho Panza, Don Quixote, and many others in the novel, completely recognizable to us.
And so, what Lewis is able to do is tap into empirical experience, ordinary experience, but also literary experience in discussing these four loves.
What are the four loves?
What are they? Lewis says that they...
He uses the Greek term to introduce each one of them.
And so I will also...
So the first one is called Storgi.
Storgi. And what does it mean?
Well, it basically means affection.
It's the type of love that arises out of sheer presence, belongingness, and out of that belongingness, out of that presence, just being around somebody, you develop a certain type of affection toward them.
Lewis will go into this in some detail, but this is the love that you see, for example, in a family.
Think of it. You don't choose your family.
They're just there with you.
Your brother or your sister, they pop out.
They live with you.
They're part of your family.
And you develop an understanding, a relationship, and an affection toward them.
So the affection of Father...
And son, of mother and daughter, of brother and sister, affection between neighbors.
Think of it, some guy moves next door.
You didn't ask for him to move in.
He's a complete stranger.
But over time, you get to know him to one degree or another.
You sort of see him over the fence, or he's mowing his lawn.
And a certain type of affection develops between people, again, people who are just thrown together.
And Lewis, in a kind of amusing way, says that this kind of relationship even applies to man and dog, man and cat.
So if you have a pet, again, you relate to the pet in some way, what would you describe that as?
Well, that's affection. That's the first type of love, Storgi.
The second type of love is from the Greek word phileia.
And what does phileia refer to?
Well, it refers to friendship.
Friendship. Now, friendship is a different kind of love than affection.
And if you think about what distinguishes your family from your friends, you realize right away that you picked your friends.
You might have bumped into them originally accidentally.
Oh, I met this guy. He was in my Spanish class or he was in my history class.
And then over time, we became friends.
So you meet a lot of people.
You bump into a lot of people, but you choose some of them.
You call them out and you say, yeah, I want to spend more time with this guy.
And I want to get to know this guy better.
And in some cases, you have friendships that last for a duration of time.
You're friends in college, but then you move on.
Or friendships that persist throughout life, really lifelong friendships.
And the other thing about friendships is that they're by and large derived by something that you have in common with somebody.
So you're talking with a guy you just met, and it turns out you both love to play chess, or you love literature, or you see the same types of movies, you're aficionados of horror movies, and that becomes the entry point for getting to establish a friendship in which you ultimately learn other things about a friend, including some things that you don't have in common, but it's the common element that holds the friendship together.
It is the shared interests, the shared values that becomes very critical.
So that's the second type of love, phileia.
The third type of love in the Greek, eros.
And of course, eros is the root of our English word erotic, eroticism.
It's romantic love.
It is, of course, marital love.
It is the love, and C.S. Lewis is not going to be bashful about this.
He, by and large, talks about heterosexual love.
He's writing, of course, before all our modern sort of confusion surrounding the issue.
But Lewis takes it in its most traditional approach.
You fall in love.
You create a life together with a partner or spouse.
You have children. So romantic love, marital love, this is eros.
And it's probably, if you say the word love, It's probably the most common association with love.
I'm in love. I want to be in love.
I love you.
These phrases that relate to love are almost all plucked out of this type of love, which is eros.
And it's probably the type of love that people have...
Maybe thought most about, pursued most intensely.
If you think about it, the other types of love kind of are taken more for granted.
You don't really pursue a family.
You got a family. It kind of comes with the territory.
Friends, you don't really go so much in search.
I'm going to go search for a friend.
Your friends sort of organically emerge into your life and they just become sort of part of it.
But on the other hand, you have all kinds of people in pursuit of eras.
Oh, I'm going to go and join online dating.
I'm going to go to libraries because that's where all the nice girls are.
I hope I meet someone at church!
So you've got an active pursuit of eras in a way that you perhaps don't in the other two forms of love.
And then we come to the fourth and final type of love.
And it is agape.
Some people say agape.
It is Christian love.
But in its true meaning, it is just unselfish love.
It is charitable love.
And right here, we should think about the fact that love normally is pretty self-motivated.
It is driven by human wants and needs.
Think about in a family.
A child is attached to the mother, but the child needs the mother.
The child wants food.
The child wants affection, and the mother is there to provide it.
And similarly, the child might serve some need or want in the mother.
So even in this most fundamental sense, you've got storgi or affection based upon this basic human need.
It's perhaps arguable whether friendship is a human need in the same way.
Maybe there are some people who can exist really without friends, although I think friendship is important for a full life.
And if someone doesn't have any friends, you're like, wow, I feel a little sorry for that guy because he doesn't have or she doesn't have any friends or any good friends, anyone that you can really confide in as a friend.
And eros is also based upon need.
It's grounded in the basic human impulse that is sort of implanted in us.
So when you're talking about agape or charitable love, it's love that derives no benefit.
The reason it's sometimes associated with God's love is that God doesn't need us.
God creates us.
He chooses to relate to us.
But God doesn't need us.
Now interestingly, you can't say that the same is true from the other side.
We actually do need God.
And so agape is really God's love flowing toward us.
Not so much agape.
Our love flowing toward God, which is based upon the fact that we need God, and we pursue God, and we have rewards to be gained if we love God.
In other words, we're looking for an afterlife.
We're looking for another life beyond this one.
We're looking for hope beyond the grave.
So these are all actual incentives that we have to pursue, if you will, God, But God doesn't have those same motives.
God doesn't get anything out of us that He doesn't already have.
God already has a certain type of built-in perfection, if you will.
So, anyway, this has all been, I guess, more Dinesh than C.S. Lewis, but I think it is a valid way to plunge into Lewis's kind of unique and insightful observation of these four types of love, and we pick up on all of that next week.
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