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Oct. 20, 2023 - Dinesh D'Souza

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IT’S HERE Dinesh D’Souza Podcast Ep690

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	Coming up on the weekend prior to the release of Police State, Debbie and I are going to do a special episode discussing several key issues in the film.
	Are we becoming a police state?
	What are the origins of the police state in America?
	Who's the primary target?
	What's the real missing piece of the puzzle on January 6th?
	Are ordinary citizens also in danger?
	Is this bigger than just America?
	And finally, what do we do?
	If you're watching on Rumble or listening on Apple, Google, or Spotify, please subscribe to my channel.
	This is the Dinesh D'Souza Show.
	The times are crazy and a time of confusion, division, and lies.
	We need a brave voice of reason, understanding, and truth.
	This is the Dinesh D'Souza Podcast.
	Debbie and I are here for our Friday roundup, but you'll notice our format is a little different.
	Normally we sit immediately, but we decided to rearrange the table.
	And also, I mean, this was also here yesterday, but I didn't take any note of it.
	Notice our new backdrop.
	Your idea. Yeah.
	I thought it'd be kind of cool to have the poster now.
	When you're alone, we don't have the poster, just the backdrop.
	But we figured this way, people can see the poster, be kind of cool.
	And the thumbnail has the poster.
	We're right on the verge of releasing Police State on Monday, the first day in the theater.
	In fact, you can be the first to see the movie.
	And that's even before the virtual premiere, even before our official premiere, which is...
	Our hometown is sold out.
	A whole ton is sold out.
	A bunch of theaters are sold out. There are still tickets available, though.
	But you've got to go.
	Get them today. Get them this weekend.
	And as I've said before, this is a movie we make for the theaters.
	So, in other words, it's very cinematic.
	You can see it in other formats.
	It works well, but the theater is kind of a unique experience.
	So try to go, if you can, go to policestatefilm.net.
	That's the website, policestatefilm.net.
	I should mention, you cannot get tickets from Fandango or from the theater.
	Don't just go to the theater saying, I'll buy a ticket when I get there.
	No, you won't be able to buy a ticket.
	Why? Because we have bought out these theaters and And so you buy the tickets online and then you show up and you present your ticket as normal and you can watch the movie.
	Now if you can't make it to the theater, then you should sign up for the virtual premiere.
	It's for the same price as the theater ticket.
	And that's also from policestatefilm.net.
	We have this cool song by Forgato Blow, which is the song that's used in the closing credits of the movie, but he's going to perform it live.
	Then we have the full screening of the movie, and then we have a live Q&A with Dan Bongino and me to follow.
	This is for the virtual premiere.
	Welcome to my show!
	Well, we thought we would devote the special episode to just a discussion of some of the key themes related to a police state.
	Now, maybe I'd start by asking you this question.
	I mean, I think we both, as immigrants, feel a little surprised that we're making a film called Police State.
	But... Unlike India, which is a society that has a lot of corruption, a lot of poverty, Venezuela has moved in the direction of a police state.
	And you have really, from the time I met you, been warning that, gee, I'm beginning to see some troubling parallels between Venezuela and the United States.
	So in a sense, you warned against it, but you also saw it coming.
	I did see it coming and I've been following the Venezuelan police state for two decades.
	So it began with people not really knowing who they were voting for or why they were voting for him.
	I know that a lot of people don't really understand the politics of Venezuela.
	And to a certain extent, it's understandable.
	Obviously, it's South America.
	Nobody really cares about any other country than America.
	But because I have roots in Venezuela, I was born there.
	I still have family there.
	I followed it very closely.
	And in 1999, when Hugo Chavez won the election, he won it democratically.
	people went out and voted for him. He campaigned as a no-nonsense person, you know, a politician that was not going to be your typical politician. He ran on anti-corruption, but he didn't run on anti-capitalism. And a lot of people assume that Hugo Chavez was a socialist from the get-go, but he didn't form the Socialist Party of Venezuela until way later, probably almost
	a decade later. So he ran as a centrist, really. And so my grandparents were fooled into voting for him because they thought, you know what, Venezuela has had a lot of corruption. They didn't really have a right-wing party and a left-wing party like we do here. It was more center-left, center-right. Still very similar to the Republican Party platform and the Democratic
	Party platform, but a little bit closer to the middle. But there are people that argue that even the right-wing party was secret communist.
	I mean, there's a lot of people that say that.
	And even to this day, there is a coalition of right-wingers that say Venezuela has never had a true right-wing representation.
	And so, these are like the MAGA groups.
	You know, in Venezuela, and they have some in Argentina, as we've seen, and they have some in Brazil.
	But the police date began when people woke up to Hugo Chavez and decided that that was not what they wanted in their country.
	And so they were against the regime.
	And essentially, the boot was stamped on their forehead.
	Yeah. To put down the newly awakened Venezuelan majority that was now resisting Hugo Chavez.
	And then you're saying it's just stayed, it's remained intact, and in some ways they've now, I mean, the police state now in Venezuela is supported by external forces.
	Exactly. Russia, China, Iran, all of them propping up so that it's even if you have a majority against Maduro The majority is now contending against these Well, they were side powers. Yes, and they are propping him up. They are giving him money so even the sanctions that we that we made Don't really matter much because they get money from Iran.
	They get money from Russia They get money from China and you know as I told you a couple weeks ago Hezbollah is is very very present in the Venezuelan government, I mean the reason the Venezuelan example is important I think is because traditionally police states are established by a revolutionary military or violent overthrow of the government
	Castro took power by overthrowing Batista, established a police state.
	Lenin led the Bolsheviks into a rebellion against the Tsar, pushed away all the other parties.
	They took power by force.
	Mao, of course, came to power the same way.
	Pol Pot in Cambodia.
	So the Venezuelan example is interesting because you have a society that democratically...
	initially. Now you say the first one. The first election has been the only legitimate election in Venezuela in two decades.
	Right, which raises a point people should be aware of, and that is that part of what police states do is rig elections.
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	America was founded as a society that would be the opposite of a police state.
	If there was a single word that the founders could unite around or galvanize around, it was freedom.
	This freedom originally meant freedom from foreign control, namely the rule of the British.
	But once the British were pushed out, the question is, what does freedom mean now?
	The founders realized that freedom means...
	citizens the scope to live their own lives. And to do that, it wasn't simply a matter of enumerating rights, although that was done in the Bill of Rights, but it was a matter of structuring the government in such a way that there would be democratic elections, but nevertheless the scope of the state would be controlled, limited government. And even though you have limited government, it wasn't a singular government because you have a separation of the legislature and the
	executive, the judiciary, so you have not only separation of powers, but checks and balances.
	So...
	of course.
	The founders did all this work to create an architecture that would make it difficult for power to become concentrated in such a way as to have a police state.
	And so the question is, how is it that we have come at least some of the way down the road to a police state given the founding architecture?
	Is it just that we have as a country moved away from the founding?
	What do you think? Well, I don't think that.
	I think half the country has moved away from the founding and the other half has not.
	Which is why we're called conservatives.
	We're conserving the founding.
	And the other half of the country, and not only the other half of the country, but the ones that actually own the police state, the ones that are in the police state, are moving away from the founding.
	They obviously don't believe in the Constitution.
	They obviously don't believe in the founding.
	They're the same people that say the founders were racist.
	They're the same people that say the founders were oppressors.
	So again, it's not a surprise as to who's running the police state, right?
	Because if you're truly a constitutionalist, you're not going to have a police state because it's the antithesis of a police state.
	Yeah, I think that what you have is this party of progress.
	And you can even see it in their name.
	The name that they give themselves these days, they don't use the word liberal anymore.
	I remember when we flashback to the 80s and 90s, it was the liberal against the conservative.
	And conservatives at that time would point out, you're not really liberal.
	You're illiberal. I mean, my first book, Illiberal Education.
	But even, I think the progressives have realized we don't really fit with the liberal label.
	They don't even like it. So they like progressive, and for them, progress is not...
	It's not holding on to the founding principles because those are in the past.
	It's moving away from the past to a future.
	Now, interestingly, the people establishing the police state have not given up the language of freedom.
	In fact, they insist on it.
	And I've made the point that our police state marches behind banners of democracy, we're saving democracy, upholding the rule of law, protecting freedom, fighting for truth against disinformation and misinformation.
	So, ours is a police did with a lot of flim-flam and a lot of pretense.
	It pretends to be one thing.
	But there is some truth.
	There are people on the left who sincerely and passionately believe that we, the right, are a threat to their freedom.
	How can they say that?
	What freedom do they want that we are threatening?
	And it gives you some idea as to what their definition is of freedom.
	Well, I think their freedom is really based on freedom from religion.
	Because I think that when we...
	All of the things that they're saying we're taking away from them, think about it.
	Abortion. Well, I mean, why do we believe abortion is immoral, right?
	Because of our biblical beliefs.
	They don't believe that, right?
	So that is something that they're fighting against.
	Freedom to assemble and pray in public, in a public sphere.
	They hate that.
	So, all of the things that they claim we're for and they're against kind of all stem around just the biblical truth.
	Yeah, I think that's a really good insight because even think about their advocacy of the trans agenda and There is a sense on the left that we cannot be bound by the strictures of nature, and we cannot be bound by the strictures of morality.
	So, they're trying to get away from the notion that nature sets firm bounds, even on our species.
	I mean, you now have people who claim, like, I'm a rabbit, right?
	Now, it's hard to take that stuff seriously.
	But it would be hard to take seriously 10 years ago someone who said, I'm a woman, and they have, you know, male genitalia.
	And yet, so things that seem absurd...
	are subsequently normalized by the left.
	But the common theme here is that it's an attack on not just religion, but traditional morality.
	Exactly.
	And they define freedom as freedom from morality, from those rules.
	And by that definition, we are the bully state.
	The oppressors of that kind of freedom.
	And then for them, interestingly, things like censoring others, establishing complicated regimes of censorship, trying to go after their political opposition, trying to criminalize political opposition, filing 90 plus charges against Trump.
	None of that is police state at all.
	They're like, in fact, they say that's upholding their rule of law.
	Fighting the second amendment.
	I mean, how, you know, in a democratic society where people are allowed to own guns, like in Venezuela, One of the things that happened with the emerging police state is the confiscation of weapons for the citizens.
	They could no longer defend themselves not only against the regime, but other criminals, criminals running the streets who were kind of a part of the regime called the colectivos.
	So citizens didn't have weapons to defend themselves.
	And the establishment of the police state came really rapidly right after that.
	Exactly. Exactly. So see all these things, all these common threads that are attacking us, the patriot, the conservative, the republican.
	Right. It's basically all of the little things that we see happening in other police states are slowly happening here because even with the Second Amendment, what happens is that they try to make even the citizen that actually loves and promotes the Second Amendment to go, hey, wait a minute, there have been a lot of shootings, right?
	We really should think about this notion of us being able to own guns.
	Because guns are in the wrong hands many times.
	And people that have mental illness have a gun.
	Well, they shouldn't have a gun.
	And then we start saying who should have guns and who shouldn't have guns.
	Soon, no one will have guns.
	I mean, the common pattern here is that crisis and fear are the easiest mechanisms to get people to give up their rights.
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	One of the things that we do in the film is we try to identify the origins of the police data.
	And this is important because if the left says the right is doing the police data and the right says no, the left is doing it, One way you resolve that is, well, you define a police state, but then you see, when did it start?
	How is it organized?
	How does it operate?
	Who's behind it?
	Who's running it? And once you answer those questions, you're like, now I know.
	I can now answer that question.
	But let's talk about the origin of the police state.
	Do you think that the police state began in this century, or do you think that there were roots of it that go even earlier into the 20th century?
	Well, Hoover, which is, he was the, he ran the CIA, the FBI. Apparently, he had a list.
	No, that's right. And so, when was this?
	Well, I mean, Hoover was the longtime head of the FBI. Right.
	And, you know, this is a guy who had, apparently he had the goods on Nixon.
	He had the goods on John F. Kennedy.
	This was a guy who had commissioned the surveillance of Martin Luther King.
	So, we're talking about the 50s and 60s.
	Right. So, he was kind of a big brother himself.
	He took it with him. Yeah. I think so, though.
	I think it's important to note that with Hoover, it's kind of like he was a very cagey guy.
	Apparently, he had a very bizarre personal history and life, and he sort of thought that the way that he would stay in power is have the goods on everybody.
	So nobody could really go after him.
	He had the goods on them.
	Yeah.
	Yeah. It was not the systematic police state that we're dealing with now, in which the FBI, by the way, is only one part of a much larger picture.
	Right, right. Because it's the agencies, correct?
	The agencies of government.
	Yeah, it's the ATF, it's the DHS. I mean, the DHS is 15 or 20 times bigger than the FBI. Right.
	Because it has a massive arsenal of agents and money.
	And in fact, a lot of the censorship and a lot of the bad stuff, a lot of the political surveillance and tracking is coming out of DHS, not out of the area.
	And that was after 9-11.
	And that was after 9-11.
	Do you think, I mean, do you think that that was the turning point?
	Or would you go back to Waco and Ruby Ridge?
	I think Waco and Ruby Ridge woke up a lot of Americans.
	To? To the fact that if they don't like what you're doing, they will find a way to take it away or jail you or, in those instances, kill you.
	I mean, I think what happened with Waco and Ruby Ridge, both were in the 90s.
	Now, if I remember, Ruby Ridge was under Bush.
	Was that right? And I think Waco was under Clinton.
	I know Waco was under Clinton.
	Yes, it was kind of the cusp.
	Right. Yes, me too.
	And so, in Ruby Ridge, they were going after these so-called militia guys.
	Right. And in Waco, they were going after these cult guys, right?
	Yes. Which is David Foresh.
	But the excuse was, they didn't go after them because they were a cult.
	They went after them because they had weapons.
	Right. Right. But I think a lot of Americans were not only okay with what happened, but even cheered at some of them because they thought, these people are weirdos.
	You know, the guys who live in the mountains, like mountain men, and then you've got this weird cult and some allegations of all this weird sexual stuff.
	I think this is important because, well, fast forward to something Hillary Clinton recently said, which is that MAGA supporters might need to be, quote, formally deprogrammed.
	Think about that. So what is she saying?
	She's saying that, first of all, MAGA is a cult.
	Lichen to Waco.
	And then some people go, well, this is ridiculous.
	This is our basket of deplorables all over again.
	I think it's actually more insidious than that.
	More sinister. More sinister, because what she's really saying is that I am going to dehumanize these people as a cult.
	As a prelude to people thinking, it's okay if we incarcerate these people.
	It's okay if we kill them. Look at January 6th.
	Look at what they're lumping us with, right?
	So, not only should we be deprogrammed, but we're insurrectionists.
	We're trying to overthrow the government.
	We're trying to overthrow the government. Illicitly.
	Exactly. And the government is justified in coming down on us as if we are ISIS. I mean, here's what's interesting is with the Hamas attacks, we get a reminder as if we needed, this is terrorism.
	Right? We saw it at 9-11.
	We saw it earlier in the 20th century with the IRA and several other terrorist groups.
	We've also seen domestic terrorism.
	Bill Ayers was a domestic terrorist, planning a bomb at the Pentagon, trying to bomb the buildings in Manhattan and so on.
	So the Weather Underground was a terrorist organization.
	MAGA is not a terrorist group.
	MAGA didn't do this on January 6th.
	It isn't doing it now.
	Well, I likened the weather underground to Antifa.
	Right. And Antifa is not viewed that way by these people.
	Right. Can you imagine?
	Well, this shows you that police states have a way of defining these issues in which enemies of the police state are labeled enemies of the state and friends of the police state are let off the hook.
	They're protesters.
	They're protesters.
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	feel the difference. You mentioned in the last segment, January 6th, and interestingly, this film began as a film about January 6th, right?
	We knew that that was, that something was deeply wrong there. We also knew that the story of January 6th hadn't been really told.
	We wanted to break new ground on January 6th, and we do.
	We do in the movie. But we also saw that January 6th itself was part of something bigger.
	Much bigger. Because when you think about things like, well, censorship.
	Censorship both preceded January 6th.
	There was COVID censorship before, but then censorship was expanded after January 6th.
	You have lots of people, and maybe we should talk about this also in this episode, lots of people who are unconnected with January 6th who are being surveilled or pursued by the police state.
	So even if somebody were to say, I'm not Trump, I didn't go in the Capitol...
	should not feel invulnerable.
	They too can be targeted by the police state.
	But let's talk about Trump for a moment here because he is the poster boy.
	I mean, the left makes him the poster boy of the police state.
	He is carrying out a police state or he represents an authoritarian threat.
	But I think it's far more clear that Trump is the target of the police state, but he's their pathological target.
	I mean, they are so determined to go after him as opposed to anyone else.
	I mean, we know that they don't like other Republican candidates, for example.
	Why do you think? Why him?
	Why is he in their sights?
	If they could get rid of one person, let's say you offered the left a choice.
	You can get rid of all the other Republican candidates put together, or you can get rid of Trump.
	Well, it's interesting. Did Bush or Romney or McCain ever run on, I'm going to drain the swamp?
	I don't think they did.
	I think they were part of the swamp.
	And so I don't think that that was their mantra, right?
	But Trump came in and said, I'm going to drain the swamp.
	Now, he didn't, right?
	And he should have, but he didn't.
	And I think that that alone was reason enough to make him a primary target because they don't want him to drain the swamp.
	Right. Yeah, I mean, I think looking back with Trump in the first term, I mean, in 2016, even though he came in, he was an outsider.
	So he knew about the swap, but he didn't really know...
	How these organs all operate.
	In that sense, I would contrast, in a way, Trump with DeSantis, because DeSantis is a government guy.
	He's a bureaucratic guy.
	In fact, he's been in bureaucratic organizations about almost all his life.
	He was in the military, then he moves into government.
	So he is somebody who functions in that, whereas Trump is a business guy.
	He's from the outside. I don't think...
	Yeah, and I think he thought that there were big spenders and wasteful guys and corrupt guys.
	I'm not sure that he knew that even these police agencies had all been sort of structured in a way that they could be mobilized against him.
	Otherwise, he would have fired, he would have fired Comey, he would have fired Christopher Wray.
	Yeah, well, you know, and also the thing that was really interesting with Trump was that the people he surrounded himself with, cabinet, you know, chief of staffs, They didn't have his best interest, and so a lot of them kind of stabbed him in the back.
	That's remarkable. He's had more backstabbers.
	I mean, Reagan had one or two backstabbers, but Reagan didn't have...
	More backstabbers than non-backstabbers.
	Right, they're not. And so, but I think, and there are people today who bash Trump and they say, you know, Trump didn't do this and Trump didn't do that and Trump was wrong about COVID. But we've got to realize that when you come into the government, I mean, who knew?
	You didn't know and I didn't know and Trump didn't know that the CDC, the Center for Disease Control has been corrupted.
	Right. As you know, I was a fan of the CDC. I'm a germaphobe, and I've always felt like we need an agency.
	What does the CDC say about it?
	Yeah, we need an agency that is nonpartisan, and I always believed that they were nonpartisan.
	I never thought they took sides.
	I didn't think they did until COVID. And then I was so surprised and shocked.
	Yeah, so when COVID comes along, Trump goes, you know what?
	What can we do?
	They're telling us to shut down the economy.
	Let's do that temporarily and race to a vaccine.
	He did, in a sense, the logical thing that you would do under normal circumstances.
	It's just that we were, even then, not in a normal circumstance.
	Yeah. And we have no idea. I thought it was a one-off.
	I thought, okay, you know what?
	Dumb me. I made this movie.
	I annoyed this vindictive narcissist.
	He's going after me.
	I should have known there's a target on my back.
	But I didn't see it as a prelude to something bigger.
	It's going to come for Papadopoulos and Carter Page, and it's going to come for Michael Flynn, and now for Trump.
	Well, interestingly, around the time that you got targeted, There had been other targets, like my friend Tom DeLay.
	Right. And there was IRS targeting.
	There was IRS targeting. So I had seen there was a little bit of a pattern there happening.
	And then with you, it was like, whoa, you know, this is getting bigger.
	And it just continued.
	It almost like snowballed into something that we now call the police station.
	Had Hillary been elected, we probably would have had a full-fledged police wait.
	So in that sense, we bought some time.
	We briefly got a respite with Trump.
	But now, of course, they're completely at it again.
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	I want to make a point about January 6th that I think is brought out very powerfully in the movie, because this point radically contradicts the left's narrative on January 6th.
	So, the left's narrative on January 6th is that these Trumpsters all stormed into the Capitol with one motive, and the motive was to stop what was going on, and what was going on was the certification of the election.
	However, that is not in fact what was going on.
	What was going on is that one after the other, Republicans had already started, but they were making a coordinated campaign to challenge the outcome of the election in key states.
	And in fact, they're the states from 2000 News, Arizona, Georgia, Wisconsin, and so on.
	And so it was that process that came to an abrupt halt.
	It was that process that was never revived.
	And in fact, after January 6th, right away in the middle of the night, they were like, okay, this is it.
	We just got a certified bite.
	So, so...
	The point is the Trumpsters who went in the Capitol had no motive to stop the questioning of the election.
	But somebody else did.
	The Democrats. The Democrats realized this questioning of the election is not a road we want to go down.
	Right. It's going to stop today.
	We have got to figure out.
	So all of this is a way of recognizing that the whole January 6th committee was a propaganda project.
	Liz Cheney was basically...
	stooge of Nancy Pelosi and that the real truth remains submerged.
	And look, we can't resolve the issue of January 6th, but I think we bring out so many dazzling new insights and angles and then integrate it into this larger theme that it's really going to leave people going, wow.
	Wow, yeah. So, interestingly, at the time, I was doing op-eds for El American.
	It was a Spanish bilingual magazine at the time.
	And I noticed that I was writing a lot of things about election fraud.
	I mean, I'm all kinds of articles about election fraud and comparing it to the Venezuela and this and that and and I started doing this Around the time of the election so November right? So I did it for a couple months Then suddenly on January 6th, I could no longer write about any kind of fraud whatsoever So it shut that debate down once and for all.
	And that, I believe, was the motive behind January 6th.
	I believe that these people, these Democrats, Nancy Pelosi, they knew that something big was going to go down because people were questioning people.
	And they were agitated. They were agitated.
	The analogy that we develop in the film, I think quite powerfully, is the analogy of the Reichstag fire, which is when a foreign communist burned the German parliament, the Reichstag.
	Hitler, who was then the chancellor, but didn't have dictatorial power, was immediately able to capitalize on that event.
	And he rushed to the parliament and he said, listen, this shows that subversives are trying to overthrow our government.
	Again, he insinuated that it was foreign subversives in league with domestic subversives.
	I need to have dictatorial power.
	I need to crack down on these people.
	I need to teach them a lesson they'll never forget.
	I need to shut this.
	And the German people were like, yeah, let's do it.
	So this is a replay of a Nazi...
	Tactic. Tactic.
	And in that sense, it's classic police state.
	But the genius of the police state here is to pretend that it is actually opposing a police state.
	Exactly. We're trying to stop the election from being subverted.
	Exactly. We're protecting democracy.
	A legitimate... And notice that in all of the literature following January 6th, they were trying to overthrow a legitimate election.
	Or Trump's baseless claims.
	Baseless claims of election fraud.
	Right. So that was kind of the doublespeak or the newspeak after January 6th, was that there was no basis for election fraud.
	And that the only reason that the January 6th people that went there to rally or to hear Trump speak was to overturn a legitimate election.
	I think it's really interesting also that the rhetoric, which is now echoed in the indictments of Jack Smith, Against Trump and also in the Georgia indictments that somehow Trump and his supporters knew.
	They knew that the election was fair.
	They didn't really believe that it was stolen.
	Now, anyone who has any proximity to Trump or any of these people realizes this is about the most ridiculous thing you can possibly say.
	That's all Trump ever talks about.
	That's all he talks about. Yeah, and in fact, we think that maybe he should talk about it a little bit less.
	But the fact of it is...
	This, if there's one thing that we know that Trump believes, it's that the 2020 election was stolen from him.
	And if there's one thing that we know the Republican base believes, it's the same.
	You know why? Because I think this is really why no other candidate has been able to get traction against Trump because they feel like, you know what, if they stole it from him, he does deserve a shot at regaining his legitimate spot in the Oval Office.
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	You know, in police state, we do identify Trump as the primary target.
	We then have a, I think, very powerful section on January 6th.
	But then we address the guy who says...
	We don't have him saying this in the movie, but this is the sentiment we're dealing with.
	I'm not Trump, and I didn't go in the Capitol on January 6th, and I'm a law-abiding American, and I walk my dog, and I pay my taxes.
	And so, I do not have to fear.
	The FBI is never going to come to my door.
	I'm never going to find myself indicted.
	And I think the film replies, you could not be more naive.
	And I think one of the really powerful things about this film is it identifies all these...
	Well, there are two types of people in the film.
	There are whistleblowers, informants, and the people who know how the police state functions.
	And that's really valuable because the machinations of the police state, people don't understand.
	And I think this is a little bit why people tend to come up with conspiratorial theories, because you're looking at something that you don't know how it works.
	So it's important to show this is how it works.
	But the other type of person in the movie is ordinary guys going about their business.
	They might be involved in their school or in civic groups or their pro-life, and they suddenly find themselves face-to-face with the police state, and the result is pretty terrifying because it's something so unexpected.
	It's devastating to these people.
	It's devastating, and to show the way that the police state breaks you, and it doesn't just break you, it breaks, often, family members.
	And so it's wreaking so much moral and emotional havoc And it's only going to get worse if it's not stopped.
	Yeah, I believe so. Yeah, there are some really emotional moments.
	I mean, even though we were involved in the filming process and the editing process and...
	Even then, when you see, for example, Joseph Bolanos talking about what happened to him, and here he is, completely just benign, just going to D.C. because he thinks it's going to be an amazing day.
	He wasn't even a protester.
	He didn't even go to the Capitol.
	He didn't even go to the Capitol. No.
	And so, anyway, so someone like that, and then the aunt of one of the men that did go to the Capitol, but again, he wasn't political.
	She said he wasn't even a Republican, you know?
	And then to hear what happened to him because of this...
	You know, it's the blow-by-blow.
	And this is what a movie can do because the woman we're talking about, Jerry Parner, was asked to testify, right?
	But right before she went to testify, they told her, I think they told her she has like 90 seconds or three minutes.
	And so she goes up there and she just goes, my nephew, he went in the Capitol.
	And she gives a kind of summary, but you don't get a sense of how this all plays out in real life.
	And how it destroyed her family.
	It just destroyed her family.
	And then there are school board moms.
	I was a school board mom.
	You know, I was also a teacher, but I remember being pretty feisty about my kid.
	When they wanted to move the school.
	Yeah, so, I mean, I can't imagine that that would be, that you would think, I'm protecting my child.
	I'm doing it for the best interest of my child.
	And then you have helicopters overhead, like, wanting to arrest you, wanting to make you.
	They put you on watch lists, surveillance lists.
	And the other thing about it is, you know, I mean, we have experience in government.
	We have access to lawyers.
	So, I mean, we worry in making a film like this, will they try to come after us?
	But my point is, we have a certain armory that we can deploy if that happens.
	But can you imagine somebody who's like...
	Well, the armory is not...
	In no way...
	I mean... If they want to get you, they'll get you.
	I mean, that's the essence of a police state, right?
	Exactly. Which is to say they identify a target and then they try to find out something that you did.
	And this is why I tell people who say things like, you know, I pay my taxes, is I say, listen, why don't we spend the next 15 minutes and you tell me a lot of things about your life?
	Just describe them. And I will then tell you three separate indictments...
	And can be brought against you, right?
	You're a doctor, I've got one ready for you, which is that illegally administering pain drugs.
	All you have to do is find one patient that you gave pain medication to who says, I didn't really need it.
	And then they accuse you of nuts.
	And so then they come to you and they go, listen, we give you two choices.
	You can pay a $100,000 fine and never practice medicine again and serve 30 days in jail, or we're going to charge you with a crime that could carry, let's just say, five years in prison.
	And you go, five years in prison, my life would be destroyed.
	So you take the other deal, even though you're not guilty, and you could defend yourself, but you can't take the risk.
	So this is the way in which the police state legally, and that's the sad point, is they are legally bludgeoning you.
	Into taking a plea when you're not guilty and they targeted you in the first place.
	Yeah, that's right. And this movie really, I mean, we show many, many, many people.
	You have more interviews than you've ever had in any of the other movies.
	So it's very impactful.
	And we bring these stories to life either with authentic police cam, body cam, or peephole footage, or in some cases we recreate the event.
	And that's the power of a film is you're not just told about it, you can experience it.
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	Get 35% off your Your first preferred order by using discount code AMERICA. The point of making a movie like Police State is to create a weapon.
	And by a weapon, I mean a weapon of knowledge, of insight, of information.
	And so sometimes when people say to me, like, what can I do?
	I'm like, look, we've done the first thing to be done, which is to say we have created, we not only have told a story, but we have told the story in a way that anyone can identify with.
	And even people on the other side would be unnerved by.
	So the first thing that you can do is help us to get the message out.
	I mean, see the film yourself, right?
	And once again, the website, policestatefilm.net is the kind of a one-stop shop because we have this unique distribution mechanism now in which we don't normally open in the theater.
	We buy all the theaters and then we sell tickets on the website.
	And we have a virtual premiere and later we'll have streaming and we'll have DVDs, but all of it coming off policestatefilm.net.
	So that's the website to memorize.
	And we wanna ask you to help us, I mean, become, if you will, evangelists for this cause, really for your own protection and for the protection of the country.
	What else can people do if someone goes, I want to help, I want to be a part of the good guys who are fighting this emerging police state?
	Now, obviously, some of what can be done is institutional.
	The Supreme Court can do things, ballot courts can do things, the Republican House can do things, Republican governors and secretaries of state, they can do things, attorneys general.
	But what can ordinary citizens do, either individually or in groups?
	Well, for one, they need to understand the parties, the political parties.
	I hear people say all the time, I'm not really a Republican.
	I'm not a Democrat.
	I'm not a Republican. Well, you know what?
	Unfortunately or fortunately, however you want to see it, these two parties are what drive our government.
	And like you mentioned, the Supreme Court, the Appellate Court, Congress, those are all...
	Directly and indirectly made by people voting for a particular party.
	So if you vote Republican, you're going to get judges that are hard on crime, DAs that are hard on crime, so your cities are going to be safer and cleaner if you vote Republican.
	And by, you know, just by default, you're also going to create less corruption by voting for these people.
	And it's going to, it's going to kind of, I don't want to say guarantee, but sort of guarantee that you're not going to be fallen into a police state.
	You're not going to get, you're not going to get the Republican Party, there are elements of the Republican Party that have, I mean, Right. But thinking back to the Reagan years, I don't even remember people using that term.
	They use moderates.
	They use sometimes, you know, some derogatory terms like, he's a squish.
	Yeah. Well, typically, back then, we would say we're Reagan Republicans, right?
	To kind of differentiate...
	But Reagan himself always saw the importance of holding the team together.
	It's kind of like holding the Union army together.
	You know, you don't want to say, okay, you've got these Union guys who are in our army, but they're soft in the Confederacy.
	They think that there should be a negotiated settlement.
	So let's throw them out of the army so they can actually go join the Confederates.
	No, we don't want that to happen.
	We actually want to expand the ranks of the Union.
	Right. Yeah, no, for sure.
	And again, if people think, okay, well, I don't want to vote.
	I just don't even want to vote.
	Well, then they're actually giving it to the left.
	They're allowing the Democrats to win.
	I mean, Debbie and I, we well understand the problems in the Republican Party.
	We well understand a lot of the pettiness.
	We understand the absurd problems.
	Operations of the Republican National Committee.
	Where are those guys? I mean, here's a good example.
	If we had made this film on the left, we would have been contacted by the Democratic National Committee eons ago.
	They'd be offering all kinds of help.
	We have not heard one word.
	And we haven't approached the RNC because we've had bad experiences with them.
	If we approach them, I can tell you the answer in advance.
	They will do nothing. They will not lift a finger to help us.
	So we share that frustration of people who think the Republican Party is...
	Horrible. Yeah, but that being said, it's the only party that offers any kind of hope for an America that is more like the founding America than the progressive America that's going to throw us off the cliff.
	Absolutely. It's a party with a great history.
	I mean, the history of the Republican Party is the history of anti-slavery and emancipation.
	It's the history of expanding the franchise.
	It's obviously a party that's delivered economic prosperity.
	Thinking back, for example, to the Reagan years, it's the party that opposes the coddling of criminals.
	And yet it's a party that I think does have today, in its leaders and in its members, the intention of rolling back the police state.
	There's not a full understanding of the police state across the party.
	There's not a full acknowledgement of who constitutes the police state.
	There's a little bit of Republicans who are confused.
	Am I supposed to be back the blue?
	If I'm back the blue, how can I be against the police state?
	Yes, you can, because the police state is fundamentally lawless.
	Of course. The police force is there to go after real criminals.
	So people need to understand that there's a difference between being for the police, for the blue, back the blue, and against a police state, which doesn't go after real criminals.
	It goes after non-criminals.
	In fact, it lets the criminals run a mob while cracking down on law-abiding Americans.
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