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July 5, 2023 - Dinesh D'Souza
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Breaking the Uni-Party Dinesh D’Souza Podcast Ep 614
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This episode is brought to you by my friend Rebecca Walzer, a financial expert who can help you protect your wealth.
Book your free call with her team by going to friendofdinesh.com.
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Good afternoon, I'm Brandon Gill.
I'm Dinesh's son-in-law and I'm hosting his podcast this week while Dinesh is enjoying himself across the pond in England.
I hope everybody had a great 4th of July.
I know I certainly did.
If you're a regular listener to the Dinesh D'Souza podcast, then you've heard me here before.
I'm the founder and editor-in-chief of an America First news outlet called DC Inquirer.
You can check us out at dcinquirer.com where you'll get breaking news and commentary from me and our very talented team.
Donald Trump reads DC Inquirer and shares us on social media, which means that you should be doing the same.
So check us out at dcinquirer.com.
You can find me on Truth Social at Brandon Gill, on Twitter at RealBrandonGill, as well as on Facebook and Instagram.
So find me there.
We've got a great show for you today.
We're going to discuss America's role in the war in Ukraine, how we should think about foreign policy, and the one former president who is bucking the ruling elite's foreign policy consensus.
Later, we have Blaze TV host Aaron McIntyre joining us to talk about some of the darker parts of the left social agenda.
And we'll break down what they're doing and how we can stop them.
Let's get started. This is the Dinesh D'Souza podcast.
America needs this voice.
The times are crazy and a time of confusion, division, and lies.
We need a brave voice of reason, understanding, and truth.
This is the Dinesh D'Souza Podcast.
All right, we're back.
This is the Dinesh D'Souza Podcast.
I'm Brandon Gill filling in for Dinesh this week.
Last week, Mike Pence made a surprise trip to the Ukraine.
He met with the country's frontman, Volodymyr Zelensky, and actually happened to be in Kiev at the same time as Greta Thunberg.
We don't know if they met each other, but it must have felt like a gathering of world visionaries.
Alongside Nikki Haley, Mike Pence has been one of the more outspoken supporters of the Ukraine war amongst Republican primary candidates.
According to NBC, Pence, quote, Pence, the first candidate in the crowded Republican 2024 presidential field to visit Ukraine, countered directly the rising America First wing of modern conservatism and sought to position himself as the party's leading champion of the hawkish foreign policy that defined the party for decades.
And when he was there, he said the trip, quote, just steals my resolve to do my part to continue to call for strong American support for our Ukraine friends and allies.
And that apparent friendship was reciprocal.
One of Zelensky's top advisors praised Mike Pence, saying, quote, he deeply understands Russia and deeply understands the nature of this conflict.
That it's not about the territories, not about any businesses, not about anything except the main thing, those values for which the United States were created.
What are those values?
Well, they're, quote, freedom, competition, and democracy.
Of course, there was little questioning how Ukraine, the country that just canceled its presidential elections, is now the shining city on a hill for democracy.
But that's another issue.
Mike Pence isn't the only Republican candidate beating the war drums for Ukrainian democracy.
Nikki Haley criticized Joe Biden last week for being, quote, far too slow and weak in helping Ukraine.
It's a conflict she has described as not about Ukraine.
It's about freedom.
We've heard almost identical rhetoric from Tim Scott and Chris Christie, two other presidential contenders, as well as from Republican senators and intellectual leaders.
And it's not just Republicans.
At a time when we are told bipartisanship is dead, when neither side can even agree on which bathroom to use, elites in both parties have virtually indistinguishable views on the war.
According to Chuck Schumer, we have a moral obligation to stand with our friends in Ukraine.
The fight they are in is a struggle between democracy And we dare not relent or delay swift action to help our friends in need.
As Nancy Pelosi told Zelensky over video, quote, And earlier this year, Joe Biden flew to Kiev to tell Ukraine, And that's how long we're going to be with you.
For as long as it takes.
So there's a consensus amongst the ruling class that the war in Ukraine is America's war, too.
It's a moral crusade, and like it or not, we are one of its captains.
Now, obviously, it's not a war Congress formally declared.
No American voted to join Ukraine's fight against Russia.
In fact, there's been almost no substantive debate about it amongst our ruling class at all.
It's extremely popular.
It's moral. Remember, it's for freedom and democracy, so why question it?
But there are some questions worth asking.
For example, is another country's freedom and democracy really a reason to go to war?
Most countries around the world aren't free, and few have well-functioning democracies.
Do we? But we aren't invading the Democratic Republic of the Congo or Iran or Uzbekistan, but none of them are free or democratic.
One of the major problems with going to war based solely on abstract moral principles is that we don't ask other important questions either.
Like, is this even in the national interest?
Would winning this war benefit us?
And if so, how much?
And what is the cost we're willing to pay for victory?
How much can we pay?
How much are we willing to risk?
How do we balance the benefits of possible victory against the economic, social, and political costs?
Not to mention the cost in lives.
And what happens if we lose?
What are the risks?
What are the chances of winning?
What if this war turns into something much bigger than it is now?
Or even are there alternatives to war?
Is there a path for possible peace?
These aren't always pleasant questions to ask.
They don't make you feel warm and fuzzy inside when blind moral charges do.
But the foundation of sound strategic geopolitical analysis is a recognition that we have limited resources, that we have to make trade-offs between competing interests, and that we have to weigh the costs, benefits, and risks of any potential course of action.
Geopolitics are like a chessboard, and you don't blindly send your queen out on moral crusades.
Because if you do, you risk losing your king.
We have to ask questions first.
The real problem here isn't that we don't have good answers to these questions.
It's that nobody in the political elite is even asking them.
And they haven't been for decades, at least until 2015 when Donald Trump on a Republican primary debate stage asked why we spent $4 trillion in the Iraq war when we could have spent it at home.
What was the purpose?
It's worth hearing his answer in some of the questions he asked because the situation in Ukraine is similar.
Trump said, quote, We've spent $4 trillion trying to topple various people that, frankly, if they were there, and if we could have spent $4 trillion in the United States to fix our roads, our bridges, and all of the other problems, our airports and all the other problems we have, we would have been a lot better off.
I can tell you that right now.
End quote. Trump asked the questions nobody, especially no Republicans, were supposed to ask.
But he did. And he's doing the exact same thing with Ukraine.
Last week, President Trump gave an interview with Reuters.
And he said, quote, I want people to stop dying over this ridiculous war.
He then went on. I think the biggest thing that the U.S. should be doing right now is making peace.
Getting Russia and Ukraine together and making peace.
You can do it.
And while the rest of the political class spent last week cheering on the attempted coup in Russia, Trump seemed to be one of the few voices of actual reason and prudence.
In the same interview, he stated that if Putin were no longer in power...
You don't know what the alternative is.
It could be better, but it could be far worse.
What he's saying used to be the basis of sound, rational foreign policy.
But Trump is one of the only people today saying this.
But the deeper point isn't to say that Trump is right about Ukraine even though he absolutely is.
Rather, it's to say that Trump's conception of foreign policy is correct on a far deeper, more fundamental level.
It's conservative at its core.
And in international relations parlance, it's realist.
It's based on truth and concrete reality, not opaque notions of freedom and democracy.
And today, it's far too rare.
And Trump's voice is a voice we desperately need.
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And if you think opposition to the Russia-Ukraine war will get you in trouble with the ruling elite, try misgendering somebody.
That's when you refer to them by the gender they actually are.
The one God gave them instead of the gender they want to coerce you into calling them.
Now that's what they call problematic.
It could get you kicked off Facebook and YouTube.
Calling a he-they or even a zee-zay by he-him pronouns could earn you serious disciplinary action at any of our colleges.
And in some places, it's enough to get you passed up for that next promotion or even fired.
And soon, in some places in our country, misgendering somebody could be enough to get you thrown in jail.
Last week, the Michigan State House passed a new bill, HB 4474.
According to the bill, intentionally referring to somebody as the wrong gender identity will classify as a hate crime.
Not the wrong gender, the wrong gender identity.
The bill makes it illegal to intimidate somebody, quote, based on the actual or perceived characteristics of another individual.
Those characteristics include sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression.
The crime here is a felony offense.
You'll be a convicted felon if you're found guilty of misgendering somebody.
And the punishment is a fine of up to $10,000 or imprisonment for up to five years.
The bill is expected to pass the Michigan Senate and to be signed into law by Governor Gretchen Whitmer.
The bill is the template for the kind of intimidation the left wants to spread across the entire country.
So let's dig in to see exactly what the bill means.
We can start with gender identity.
What exactly does that mean?
Well, helpfully, the bill gives us a definition.
And I'm quoting, gender identity or expression means having or being perceived as having a gender-related self-identity or expression.
Did you get that?
Gender identity means gender-related self-identity.
Makes sense? It's not supposed to.
That's like looking up the word dog in a dictionary in the definition saying a dog is something with dog-like characteristics.
The definition is self-referential.
The logic is circular.
It doesn't actually tell you anything.
That means that gender identity could mean anything at any given time.
It's whatever the alleged victim of misgendering thinks it means.
Whether they tell you or not...
It's part of their internal being, a reflection of their core self, and you are just supposed to know.
So now that we know what gender identity means, what exactly does it mean to intimidate somebody?
Well, the bill tells us that too.
It's anything that would cause, quote, a reasonable individual to feel terrorized, frightened, or threatened, and that actually causes the victim to feel terrorized, frightened, or threatened.
Now you can say what you want about how reasonable the person in question is likely to be, the one who is accusing you of misgendering them.
But at least the principle of intimidation is clear.
It's merely making somebody feel uncomfortable.
So if this bill passes in Michigan, which again it's expected to, then by simply making somebody feel intimidated about their self-defined gender identity, you could be put in jail.
And it's a hate crime.
And you'll have all the baggage that comes with being a convicted felon.
Fewer job prospects, curtailed Second Amendment rights, more difficulty traveling.
Being a felon is a big deal, just ask Dinesh.
So another question we might ask is, who this law is actually supposed to apply to?
The law itself, as we know, is quite general.
It could and will apply in all kinds of situations.
But as Breitbart writes, If this bill passes,
in Michigan, you could commit a hate crime for not wanting men to shower with your daughter at the local YMCA. Or maybe you have a view of marriage based on religious principles.
One that necessitates you believe in only two genders that can't be changed.
Just like every single person in the world did until about five years ago.
That may not be allowed either.
Your pastor may be committing hate crimes.
Or maybe you're not religious at all.
You're just somebody who doesn't believe in the new gender revolution.
This law will apply to you too.
And of course, that's how the authors of the law intended it to be.
It's purposefully broad.
It can't be anything else.
Because the goal isn't actually to ban something you do.
It's to outlaw certain thoughts and opinions.
In other words, there is right think and there is wrong think.
And what was true yesterday or last year or for the past thousands of years isn't right today.
You need to correct yourself.
When you see a six foot tall man with a beard and lipstick and a dress, you're not allowed to believe that what you are seeing is anything other than a woman, no matter how absurd or nonsensical that may be.
And when your septum-pierced, purple-haired waitress at the local diner tells you her pronouns are ZZ, you better call her ZZ no matter what you actually think.
Nothing short of that will be tolerated.
It's the ultimate form of mind control, because if you're not allowed to say something, then really you're not allowed to think it either.
And if the ruling elite can convince you that men are women and women are men, We're good to go.
The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears, George Orwell wrote.
It was their final, most essential command.
And that's what's happening in Michigan and what the left wants to bring to the rest of the country.
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All right. Welcome back to the Dinesh D'Souza podcast.
I'm Brandon Gill filling in for Dinesh this week.
We've been talking a little bit about sort of the cultural devolution that we've seen over the past five or ten years, and we have Oren McIntyre here with us.
Oren is a columnist at The Blaze.
He's the host of The Oren McIntyre Show on Blaze TV. He's the author of the upcoming book, The Total State...
I read his Twitter pretty prolifically.
He's got a great sub stack.
I encourage you guys to read.
Oren, thanks for joining us.
Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, I want to jump into what we've seen over the past month or so with Pride Month, and you've written a little bit about this, just diving right in.
And I'm reading directly from your latest article.
At a pride parade in Seattle over the weekend, a group of nude adults rode bicycles in the middle of the street as they waved giddily at a crowd full of children.
There's a video that I think you've shared on Twitter about a guy who called into the Toronto Police Department, and he asked if public nudity was okay, and the response was basically, if it's pride, it's okay.
Yeah. One of the startling things about this also is that it's not just the big liberal cities.
It's easy to sort of compartmentalize whenever this stuff happens.
It's only New York. It's only San Francisco or Toronto or wherever.
But in response to some of this stuff, because there's a pretty big outcry, a big Twitter account, Brian Krasenstein, he's a pretty popular left wing pundit on Twitter, responded saying, quote, seeing a man naked on a bike isn't going to have much of an impact on any kid.
They have likely seen their father or brother naked before.
And I think whenever a lot of us look at this, it's easy to, it's like you went to bed one night and you woke up and the whole world had turned totally upside down.
And it's happened in just the last five years.
I know some of this has been a long time coming, but it's kind of like from where we were five years ago to where we are now, we're in a totally different world and it's hard to comprehend.
So I just want to ask you, how did we even get to the point where public nudity is all of a sudden acceptable?
Yeah, I mean, everyone is very confused about how it suddenly became legal to flash children, and yet we're exactly in that place.
And, you know, how did we get here?
Well, I think we kind of all know how we got here.
We decided to break down the norms of sexuality, to break down the norms of the family, to break down the norms of, you know, polite society and how we have these fundamental institutions formed in In the United States, we were warned by the religious right of the 80s and 90s exactly what would happen if we did that.
But we went ahead and mocked them and called them low class and said, you know, they don't know what they're talking about.
They're backward and bigoted.
But, you know, everything they predicted has come to pass and more.
You know, it's wild out there at this point.
But the reason it feels like it's so sudden is that we broke down all those prior barriers.
And once you got enough of the foundation eroded, When the whole thing eventually collapses, you shouldn't be surprised, but people wake up and act like this hasn't been happening for decades.
Right, right. And if we think just mechanically how we get here, one of the things you talk about is what you call the ratchet effect, which is that this doesn't, you know, we talk about the slippery slope, but it's not really a smooth descent.
What do you mean by that?
What is the ratchet effect?
So one of the key things that the left is doing is they pretend first that something isn't happening at all and that you're some kind of crazy conspiracy theorist, right?
We see a lot of conspiracy theories getting vindicated here lately, right?
And then after the evidence becomes a little overwhelming, it's like, okay, maybe a few people are doing it, but noticing it is really the problem.
The fact that you're the one noticing it is the issue.
Eventually, we get to kind of the area we are now where it's like, well, yeah, okay, it is definitely happening, but this isn't really going to hurt anybody.
And eventually, we get to the point where it's, okay, actually, we're going to be celebrating this.
This was always happening.
And now you're going to comply with it, or we're going to destroy you personally.
And each step of the way, because conservatives want to be gracious, they want to be careful, they don't want to be seen as, again, low class, crazy, backwards.
They go along saying, oh, okay, I see what you're saying.
No, no, no. And then eventually, all of a sudden, The whole thing has become full cycle.
And you have conservatives now defending the positions of the left from just a few years ago.
Now we have conservatives talking about Caitlyn Jenner conservatism and return to the roots of pride back when it was only a hedonistic festival of debauchery and not a kid-centered version of this.
That's where we're at now.
Conservatives now defend what was radically left-wing just 10 years ago.
Right, right. And I think that that speaks also to a broader difference between conservatives and liberals, which is that we want to conserve our way of life, right?
Which means we're not really looking out to go and be activists.
We're not trying to tell other people how to live their lives necessarily.
We just want to have our families.
We want to have our kids and our dogs and We want to barbecue in our backyards, and we want to go to work and make a living and go to church, and that's pretty much it.
But the left doesn't do that.
Ideologically, they are bent on transforming the fabric of our social structure.
And one of the problems with that is that And you talk a lot about that, is if one side wants to change the way we live and wants to use power aggressively and the other side doesn't, which side's going to end up winning long term?
Yeah, I mean, the side that wants to win is always going to be the side that wants to be left alone, right?
And we see this over and over again.
Like you said, conservatives assume that the institutions of the United States, the default culture would always stay traditional, would always stay kind of inherently right wing, inherently conservative.
But that's not the case anymore.
We've seen that the left has continually pushed, they've continually seized power, they've continually used the authority of institutions to transform the United States.
And now you can no longer rely on the innate conservatism, the innate traditionalism, their innate Christianity of the United States to push back against this stuff, because the left has constantly fought while the right slept, and now they are the ones who own these institutions. The institutions no longer conserve Christian thinking, they no longer conserve American morality and culture.
They conserve what is now in charge of them, which is radical progressivism.
Right. And I think that's one of the difficult things that we have to deal with now because there's so many institutions that we've spent the past 50 years defending.
I mean, just think of...
20 years ago, conservatism was about the free market.
It was about being pro-business, even pro-big business.
And now we're seeing that the institutions we spent so much time defending are now the ones coming against us.
It makes you wonder. These are institutions that we think should be apolitical.
Nobody wants to go to the grocery store and see trans flags.
They don't want to hear about all this diversity nonsense whenever they're eating dinner at a restaurant, but that's what happens.
It makes you think Maybe there is more to power than just the government.
Maybe the left-wing ideology has more to it.
There are more legs to coercing us into a particular ideology than just the government.
Maybe we missed something.
Yeah, that's a crucial thing for conservatives and libertarians.
They like to think that by shrinking the size of the government, by reducing the power of government, they've reduced the ability of kind of the regime to influence their lives.
But that's not what has happened anymore.
The government's power has extended far beyond the formal bounds of the Constitution.
We see this regularly now, right?
If you look at the Biden administration, they regularly use private institutions, private corporations to censure the free speech of Americans, to spy on Americans, because they're not restricted in the same way that the federal government is with the Constitution.
The truth is that corporations were never on our side.
They were destroying the family.
They were destroying the ability of one man to go out and make an income and provide for his family for a very long time.
They just did it with an American flag painted on the side, and they brought some economic prosperity and so conservatives decided they were on board.
But no one should be surprised that now it's more economically profitable for them to align themselves with the government.
They do so. Corporations don't care about the free market.
They don't want a free market.
They want a market that they dominate.
And if they can dominate that with left-wing progressivism, if they can destroy families, if they can use that Right,
and I think as conservatives, we tend to focus so much on the government for a lot of reasons, but one of them is that As the logic goes, government is the only institution that can compel us into a particular ideology.
They're the ones who have the guns behind them.
They're the ones who can break down our doors and throw us in jail if we don't go with the new orthodoxy.
I think we're starting to realize that if you're trying to compel an ideology, you don't actually need a secret police.
You don't need necessarily a military presence.
There are other ways to do that if other parts of civil society are on board.
Yeah, in most totalitarian states, we can automatically see what's going on, right?
You've got Nazi Germany, you've got Soviet Russia, there's somebody who tells you what to believe, there's an official organ of propaganda to tell you that.
And like you said, there are guns behind you, there are jackboots, there are gulags, right?
But in our kind of modern total state, we don't have that.
We have soft power.
And soft power is things like banking.
It's things like 24-7 media.
It's the ability to restrict somebody's ability to work, to buy and sell, to own a home.
Really messy to pack people up and put them in gulags.
That's an effective but difficult way to try to silence political dissent.
But if you can just turn someone out on the street, make sure they don't have a job, make sure they don't have the ability to have children, to have a family, to buy or sell things, well, then you can still effectively freeze them out of society.
You can still effectively limit their ability to have any kind of real influence on society and you don't have to go through the messy business of knocking down doors and sending the Gestapo.
I think a lot of people are starting to recognize that this coalition of soft power that our regime has collected outside of the government, that its ability to use things like institutions and social media.
Think of the social media mobs that can immediately rally themselves and destroy someone's lives in a matter of hours in a way that you'd have to send somebody in a helicopter with a bunch of M16s to have done previously.
Now you can just do it by, you know, the media plastering someone's name, you know, with a salacious story or a misleading story.
And so I think a lot of people are starting to understand that this complex, this media, academia, financial complex is just as, if not more dangerous than a totalitarian state.
Right. And to your point earlier, it's that the non-governmental complex isn't constrained by the Constitution.
It's not constrained by any kind – I know you're not a big fan of it – but any kind of democratic constraints.
And we've kind of – We've latched onto this idea that because they're private institutions, they can do what you want.
If you don't like that you're being censored on social media, just go to another social media platform.
If you don't like that your business is going to compel you to embrace a certain ideology, whether it be on gender or diversity or whatever it is, just go to another employer.
You can work somewhere else.
Just pack up your family and move.
And there's been sort of a – I think a political realignment.
It's almost like an awakening where conservatives are saying maybe that's not a good idea.
Maybe there's a reason that there's been a difference between a conservative ethic and a libertarian ethic.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, again, you think about the free market.
Vanderbilt, Carnegie, what's the first thing they did when they had power?
They eliminated all competition.
They didn't want an open market.
They didn't want other producers to be able to...
They secured power, especially if they had the opportunity to get a government contract.
And the same thing is true today.
These corporations, again, are more than willing to eliminate all competition, to eliminate all...
All latitude in the marketplace if it allows them to consolidate power.
We have a real problem.
We have a real issue of scale in our civilization that as we massify civilization, as we create bigger and larger bureaucratic leviathans, the centralization of power becomes a more and more effective tool.
And that's not just true in governments.
We all recognize, like you said, the libertarian argument against that in government.
But it also exists inside all of these corporations, media entities, and everything else.
And they're going to continue to wield that power unless there's some kind of competing power.
Now, that means at some point, you might have to say, you know, the state says, no, you don't have the opportunity to do that.
A lot of conservatives are scared about that.
They're worried about that.
But again, these corporations have not been your friend for a very long time.
And if you continue to deny You're going to keep suffering the consequences.
Right. And I think a lot of people are wondering, we're up against so much.
Like we said, it's not just the government.
It's not just business.
It's not just the universities.
It's not just increasingly liberal churches.
We're inundated with this.
So what can people do to push back against this?
If Oron McIntyre could give us a solution to this problem, what would it be?
I mean, that one's a far more difficult question, obviously.
I think we both recognize that.
Like you say, our problem is almost regime complete.
It is something that is prevalent in every part of our society, not just in the formal government, not even in our large bureaucratic institutions.
I think, increasingly, however, what we're seeing is its failure, right?
I don't know if you just saw this, but Axios came out with an article talking about how the Northeast is losing all of its economic power, and now you're seeing the economic power concentrate in places like Tennessee.
Florida and Texas, that's not an accident, right?
The competent states, that's where people are shifting.
The states where you can escape the madness, the progressive madness, where you can actually operate a business, where you can actually have a church, where you can actually have a family.
People are voting with their feet, and they're moving there for a reason.
I think the best thing, and this is why I've been, I know a lot of people are fans.
I'm from Florida, right?
I live under the The beneficence of Governor DeSantis.
And I have always said he's far more valuable as a governor defending the rights and the freedoms of Americans.
And I think we need 10 more Governor DeSantis to do that on many different state levels.
We need to, as conservatives, recognize that making these states redder and securing them, the freedoms inside of them, is far more effective I think that's exactly right.
It starts with the home, the schools, your church, and build up from that because those are the institutions that the left is going after.
Oren, thank you for joining us.
I appreciate it. Interesting conversation and we'll have to have you back sometime soon.
Thank you so much, man. Dinesh and Debbie had a New Year's resolution to lose weight and thankfully PhD weight loss came to the rescue.
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If you're ready to take the step of losing weight like Dinesh and Debbie have, call PHD Weight Loss and Nutrition at 864-644-1900.
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That number again is 864-644-1900.
That's it for today.
If you enjoyed the show, make sure to check out my website, dcenquirer.com.
That's dcenquirer with an e.com.
There you'll find my team of writers and I release breaking news content and commentary on everything going on in U.S. politics.
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So I'll see you there.
Hope you had a great Fourth of July and enjoy the rest of your week.
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