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Dec. 6, 2021 - Dinesh D'Souza
54:47
ADIOS AMIGOS Dinesh D’Souza Podcast Ep231
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The Biden administration is finally complying with the court order to implement Trump's Remain in Mexico policy.
I'll spell out the implications.
Jussie Smollett might be testifying in his trial.
This could be the performance of his life.
I'm going to respond to a remarkable controversy that has been raised by Amy Coney Barrett's remarks about adoption.
And political scientist Paul Kengor joins me.
We're going to talk about his book, The Devil and Karl Marx.
This is the Dinesh D'Souza podcast.
The times are crazy and a time of confusion, division, and lies.
We need a brave voice of reason, understanding, and truth.
This is the Dinesh D'Souza Podcast.
The Biden administration is finally going to implement By court order, Trump's Remain in Mexico policy.
Now, I think that these guys have been in two minds about this policy.
On the one hand, they know that politically the immigration issue is proving to be a disaster for them.
Biden's poll ratings have been plummeting from their low point already.
And the number one reason is illegal immigration.
On the other hand, the Biden people are being pushed by radical leftist lawyers, part of their base, that want this porous, open border.
And so far, the radicals have been winning.
In fact, they have allowed, what, 1.66 million illegal border crossings this year.
So they've already done enormous damage, regardless of what happens now.
Now, a Texas judge has essentially shut down the Biden open border policy and said, you can't let these people Simply be dispersed through the United States, awaiting a court date for which many of them will never show up.
They got to stay in Mexico.
And the Biden people fought that, and they made all kinds of bogus arguments.
Here's a classic one that was made by Alejandro Mayorkas.
He goes, well, you know, the problem with the Remain in Mexico is that, quote, does not address the root causes of irregular, irregular, not illegal, but irregular migration.
Well, who cares if it addresses the root causes or not?
It's a case where we want it stopped.
It's illegal. He also goes, it undercuts the administration's ability to implement critically needed and foundational changes.
Well, you can't implement critically needed and foundational changes without changing the law, and that requires Congress.
It's not something the Biden administration can do unilaterally.
So the judge in Texas was not convinced, and the Supreme Court, the Biden administration made an emergency appeal to the Supreme Court to sort of put this judge's order on the shelf, but the Supreme Court declined to do it.
So the judge's order is in effect.
Now, the Biden people needed to get the agreement of Mexico, and no surprise, basically, Mexico said, yeah, we'll cooperate if you pay us.
And of course, the Mexicans put on the usual sombrero routine where they were like, we have We have a lot of humanitarian concerns.
Many of these illegals are going to be at the mercy of gangs.
So basically, the U.S. government needs to fund some shelters and some camps and some legal work.
And so the shakedown is obviously, the familiar shakedown is underway.
The Biden people agreed to pay.
And so as of today, the Remain in Mexico policy is apparently going into effect.
Let's remember that under Trump, the result of that policy was that border crossings fell sharply.
We're going to have to see if that happens here.
Now, the Biden people have made a couple of exemptions.
They've exempted the very elderly.
They've exempted people with physical and mental disabilities.
And this is an interesting innovation.
They're exempting lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender migrants.
The idea is that somehow these people would be automatically in grave danger if they were allowed to stay on the other side of the border.
The left is actually squealing about the Biden administration's decision to do this.
There's an article in Vox that is titled, Biden's Bewildering Decision to Expand a Trump-Era Immigration Policy.
Now, the Vox people in the article concede that the Biden people have no choice but to implement the policy.
But what they say is that Biden is going beyond what the court order requires.
In other words, It is not merely sending Mexicans and other Central and South Americans back to Mexico or keeping them on the Mexican side, not allowing them to enter the United States, but they're applying this, quote, remain in Mexico policy to all.
Illegal migrants. In other words, it doesn't matter if you come from Haiti or you come from South Africa or you come from India.
You're going to have to stay in Mexico.
Well, yeah, but I don't speak Spanish.
I only speak Hindustani.
Sorry. Well, then go back to India.
You found your way here.
Find your way back. So, interestingly, this is a case where Biden finally, reluctantly, fighting this all the way, and they're still, I think, going to appeal this to the Supreme Court to try to get this Remain in Mexico policy overturned.
But it looks like now, after almost a virtual year of uninterrupted lawlessness, the Biden administration, under the gun both politically and under the gun from the courts, is finally, reluctantly following the law.
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Make sure to use promo code DINESH. I want to talk about vaccine mandates.
Vaccine mandates imposed by the Biden administration, but also vaccine mandates imposed by local authorities and also by private entities.
Our friend Alan West, who was on the podcast last week, A former congressman, former head of the Texas...
Is he former, honey, or is he the current head of the Texas GOP? No, former.
Former head of the Texas GOP. He's running for governor.
Alan West was in New York.
He went to the New York Republican Gala.
In fact, he saw my daughter Danielle there, and they had an amusing conversation.
And so Alan's been texting with Debbie, and he goes, Man, I'm really mad because I went to eat at the Empire...
Diner in New York.
And I was refused service because I wouldn't produce my vax card.
So Alan West was on the warpath about...
And of course, Alan West was like, well, you know, my parents were not allowed, refused service because of their race.
And so for Alan, this was, you know, this wasn't just an annoyance.
I think he was genuinely outraged by it.
But there's not a whole lot that can be done about...
Empire Diner, or really any private facility, private organization, imposing this kind of a mandate.
There have been efforts to contest these, and generally you can sometimes appeal them if you work for one of these organizations by claiming a religious exemption or claiming a medical exemption, but it's difficult to dethrone, overthrow the mandate itself.
Now, it's a whole different matter when the government, the federal government, tries to impose a nationwide mandate and force private entities to have a mandate.
And this is exactly what the Biden administration has been trying to do.
Again, we're not talking about a mandate imposed at the federal level inside the federal government.
We're talking about a mandate in which this was a regulation Made by OSHA, the Department of Occupational Safety and Health Administration, they issued a, quote, emergency temporary standard.
It's called an ETS, where any private employer in the whole country with 100 or more employees must impose a mandatory COVID-19 vaccinate policy.
Unvaccinated workers would have to wear masks inside the workplace and violators would face potential penalties of thousands, even tens of thousands of dollars per incident.
So potentially per day.
Now, this went before the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals, by the way, kind of a Republican leaning court.
11 of the 16 judges are Republicans, kind of shows you the importance of having the courts, not just the Supreme Court, but courts all the way down.
And the court basically said, nope, this mandate is not likely to be constitutional.
We're going to strike it down, and you can appeal it to the Supreme Court, but in the meantime, you can't enforce it.
In the meantime, the mandate is kaput.
It's dead. And that the court ordered OSHA to, quote, take no steps to implement or enforce it.
And OSHA has said that they've suspended all implementation of the order.
Now, the Biden administration, when running back to the Same court, the Sixth Circuit Court, and said, we want to transfer the case to another court.
They were obviously hoping to find a more hospitable court that would basically give them a better hearing, if you will, from their point of view.
But the Sixth Circuit Court says, no, sorry, this is going to stay right here.
You're going to have to argue it out in this court, and then you can appeal it if you want to the Supreme Court.
And the second thing that the Biden administration wanted to do is dissolve the stay.
So they asked the Sixth Circuit Court, they said, I'm now quoting them.
Delaying the standard would likely cost many lives per day, in addition to large numbers of hospitalizations, other serious health effects, tremendous expenses.
That is a confluence of harms of the highest order.
And the court once again was unimpressed and refused to lift the stay, which basically means that the Biden administration...
A mandate is effectively comatose.
It's out. It's not in effect.
And so corporations now, you know, the Biden administration has been using the media ambiguity surrounding it to say, well, you know, they can still try to convince or persuade companies to have vaccine mandate.
I'm sure they're going to try to use their leverage to do that.
But on the other hand, they just simply cannot require it.
This particular regulation by OSHA is going to have to fight its way up the courts to the Supreme Court, where I predict it's not going to do any better than it did at the Sixth Circuit Court.
In fact, I went through several podcasts ago the arguments that the Sixth Circuit Court made, which I thought were pretty decisive.
In showing why the government, A, doesn't have this kind of a power, B, is appealing to an emergency that's not an emergency at all, and C, is using measures that are in no way narrowly tailored to achieve their objectives.
They're imposing the mandate in a kind of broad way that doesn't make distinctions between workers who, A, must have it, versus workers who don't need it all that much.
This is a kind of broad brush approach.
We feel like doing it.
We're the boss. We're going to make you do it.
And the Supreme Court goes, well, you're not the boss.
You kind of have to go through us, and we are going to put up an obstacle so that you can't push ahead with this unwise, unnecessary, and unconstitutional mandate.
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Two stories have caught my eye over the weekend, and both of them point to the masterful, I would call them acting performances on the left.
The fourth story involves this Patriot Front march, supposedly a white supremacist group marching in Washington, D.C. with You know, massive FBI coverage and also all kinds of counter protesters ready to repel the white supremacists.
But here's a little video of the marches and you'll begin to see what I mean when I say that this is highly suspicious.
Take a peek. Now, you have to not only take in the video, but you have to sort of zoom in to get some of the details to see, first of all, how bogus this is.
First of all, you've got these guys, and they don't even look like white supremacists.
I mean, there's a white supremacist signature, the kind of guys with the beards and the, you know.
These guys look uniform.
They all look about the same age.
They're in their 20s and 30s.
They're all in kind of rather trim.
They've all got sort of shortish hair.
By the way, their faces are all covered, so you can't see who they are.
Yeah. They're all wearing khaki pants.
Evidently bought, like, on one of those deals.
I'll take 250 pairs of Costco.
W wants to know why they need knee pads.
Why do they need knee pads?
Maybe it's because after the march, they have some duties to perform at FBI headquarters.
Oh my gosh, I'm being censored.
I think my mind is wandering.
It's not. Well, let's just say the knee pads kind of points me to the Lincoln Project.
Because remember the Lincoln Project paid some bogus white supremacists to pose?
Remember in the Yonkin rally?
So the Lincoln Project is on my list of suspects.
But I think, you know, there's a guy who made a comment when I raised a question about this, and he goes, he goes, I'm a former combat vet.
And he goes, one thing you know about people who go through federal training, FBI, military, he goes, uniformity is the key.
Everybody looks the same.
They wear the same shoes. They have the same haircuts.
And he says, Which sponsored this.
It's run by this kid named Thomas Rousseau.
Thomas Rousseau, by the way, is 23 years old.
He was the cartoonist in his high school paper.
There's a long profile of him on the Southern Poverty Law Center.
I mean, just think of all the money that these organizations make by creating a specter.
Oh, there's a 23-year-old.
Let me just read you. They go, because he was a cartoonist on his school paper, the Southern Poverty Law Center says, quote, Yes, the SPLC is a joke.
And the other thing about this rally is these guys were rather well organized.
They apparently all arrived together in a U-Haul.
They do the march, and then they're all picked up by the U-Haul and spirited away.
No media interviews, not a whole lot of face-to-face where you can see, who are these guys really?
Now, interestingly, in the Southern Poverty Law Center, they do say on their website that this group has been thoroughly infiltrated by the FBI. So, there's no question that there's FBI involvement and infiltration, and I wouldn't be surprised one bit if the FBI put them up to it.
Now, Let's turn to another acting performance, Jussie Smollett.
Evidently, he might be taking the stand.
The prosecution is pretty much wrapped up.
And the case, by the way, is a slam dunker.
I mean, they've got the two Nigerian brothers.
You know, this is my favorite.
Osundero brother was asked under oath, quote, Who was the audience supposed to be for this scam?
Osundero, quote, According to Jussie, the media...
The media. In other words, Jussie knew that you've got a bunch of lying jackals in the media who can be counted on to play their part, and he was hoping that this would blow, take his career to a whole new level.
I mean, think of the opportunism, the cunning of this guy.
He's making a couple of million dollars per season on Empire, but it's not enough he wants to be, let's say, the numero uno racial victim in America, to be at the very top of the racial totem pole.
Now, the other thing that was so crushing about Jussie, and this is really why he has to testify, and he's going to have to put on the performance of his life to get away to be able to con this jury, but the reason he has to testify is not only did the brothers testify about everything that happened, supplying an obvious motive for Smollett and laying out the plot in full detail, But there was also a video, a surveillance tape
of Jussie and the brothers rehearsing the attack.
So before the attack, Jussie, of course, being a kind of an actor, it's like, hey, listen, we need to do a kind of a dress rehearsal.
So let's do a dress rehearsal.
Pow, pow, pow.
Yeah, put the rope.
Oh, you know, and all of this was on a video tape, but the jury saw it.
So it's really hard for me to see where this is even going to be a case.
I think Jussie is kind of cooked here.
But, you know, I think he's going to have to, you know, he'll probably do his major crying performance.
He's trying... Trying to blame the brothers.
They had it out for him.
So apparently his initial story, he has to admit, was a lie.
There was no MAGA attackers.
This was not a hate crime at all.
He's now claiming it was a grudge that his fellow actor, the Nigerians, had against him.
It's unbelievable. It's absurd.
The real criminal here isn't the Osundero brothers.
It's our good friend Jussie Smollett.
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Feel the difference. My headline for this particular story is that Fredo sleeps with the fishes.
What I mean by this is that Chris Cuomo has been fired by CNN. And this is, well, it's fantastic news.
It's also a little bit of a surprise.
Why? Because evidently CNN has standards.
Now, these might not really be intellectual standards, and they certainly don't have moral standards, and clearly CNN has very low standards, but I think the surprise is that they have standards at all.
And they've decided that enough is enough with Chris Cuomo.
Now, the Babylon Bee is kind of a funny headline here.
Unemployment rate among Cuomo brothers now rises to 100%.
Basically, both members of the Corleone, or should I say Cuomo family, are now effectively unemployed.
And the reason I say this is good news, I mean, I don't normally revel in other people's misfortune, but I mean, I just think back to the disgustingly, I mean, masturbatory scenes between the two brothers on TV just basically...
You know, just obscene.
Here's a little clip that will remind you of the kind of nauseating CNN content I'm talking about.
Listen. Let me ask you something.
With all of this adulation that you're getting for doing your job, are you thinking about running for president?
Tell the audience. No.
No. No, you won't answer?
No. I answered.
The answer is no. No, you're not thinking about it?
Sometimes it's one word. I said no.
Have you thought about it?
No. I mean, just enough to bring your stomach churning, you know, and just disgusting, you know.
Now, the funny thing was I also was both revolted and amused by the Pillsbury Doughboy.
I'm talking here about Brian Stelter, who's at CNN, but he does this little segment in which he acts like he's a crack reporter.
And he's really investigating the factors that led to Chris Cuomo's termination.
I mean, this would be like me, you know.
I'd like to make some reporting about some details on the podcast.
I've interviewed Deborah D'Souza.
I've interviewed Rohan behind the camera.
What I'm getting at is that Spillsbury Doughboy is like running down the hall, talking to a couple of guys and going, this is what I've been able to find out.
I'm still waiting for my calls to be returned by management.
I mean, absolutely laughable nonsense from this guy.
You know, riveting journalism by a crack reporter.
Trump, of course, is all over this.
And he goes, the big question is, was this because of the horrendous ratings at CNN, which, you know, All fairness have permeated CNN and MSDNC. Or was it because his brother's no longer governor?
He goes, probably both.
So this is Trump, you know, basically.
Now, interestingly, there's apparently a sexual allegation against Chris Cuomo.
And CNN has been notified about it.
Remember Deborah Katz?
She was the woman who represented Christine Blasey Ford.
Well, she's representing some woman that evidently has made a complaint against Chris Cuomo.
But the ostensible reason for Cuomo's firing is not that.
At least I don't think.
It's that Cuomo was much more actively involved than previously known in seeking to expose, humiliate, and discredit the accusers of his brother.
At one point, for example, he's texting this woman named Melissa DeRosa, Chief of Staff, for Governor Cuomo, and Chris Cuomo goes, please let me help you with the prep.
So he's actually part of the strategy team.
At another point, Andrew Cuomo is accused of attempting to forcibly kiss this woman named Anna Rutsch.
And Chris Cuomo texts to Rosa, I've got a lead on the wedding girl.
So he's apparently tapping his news sources to try to find out information, probably damaging information.
So I think when Jeff Zucker, the head of CNN, found out about this, he was like, well, you didn't really fess up, Chris.
You told us that you kind of were...
You know, doing the family duty in helping your brother, but the extent of your involvement, you kind of kept on the down low.
So now, the funny thing about this, of course, is that, yeah, Chris Cuomo's gone, but, I mean, CNN is full of all these suspect characters, right?
I mean, Chris Cuomo's hardly the only one.
You have Jeff Toobin. I mean, here's a guy, you know, strumming his human guitar, you know, somewhere over the radio.
That was what a Zoom call was.
And then, of course, there's Don Lemon, and Don Lemon has also been accused of, like, gay sexual harassment.
So you've got Lemon, you've got Tubin, you've got Chris Cuomo.
It probably doesn't even stop there.
So this is a network that's in a tailspin.
And I've got more to report about this, but I'm going to save it till next.
Well, maybe tomorrow, there's a possibility, and this would be just a delicious possibility, that CNN itself, I don't mean that the network is going to be dissolved, but rather that there's going to be mass firings at CNN, in which case the Cuomo situation will just be the beginning, but this will be a kind of house cleanup that might even include one Jeff Zucker.
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A remarkable controversy has erupted over Amy Coney Barrett's statements in the abortion case from several days ago.
And the controversy reveals the corrupt and evil core that is at the heart of modern progressivism.
Now, Amy Coney Barrett...
Very almost innocuously raised a question.
The left, this is Elizabeth Proligar speaking for the Biden administration, the Solicitor General, kept talking about forced pregnancy.
And Amy Coney Barrett said, in effect, she said, look, I admit that pregnancy involves a sort of infringement upon the idea of bodily autonomy, which is to say that you're absolute right to have a say over whatever happens around or even inside your body.
But she said, we live at a time when there are...
Adoption agencies that are desperately looking for children.
Now, Amy Coney Barrett is obviously not speaking here theoretically.
She has had, what, five children of her own.
They've adopted two.
In fact, from Haiti, I believe.
And Amy Coney Barrett said, at a time when we also have these laws, they're so-called safe haven laws.
And what they mean is that if you don't want to raise your child, You can, in a sense, shield yourself from criminal liability, from being charged with negligence.
You just essentially put the child up for adoption, and it will be raised by someone who wants it.
So Amy Coney Barrett's point here, and it's really an unanswerable point, is that when you're talking about the forced pregnancy, all that you mean is that the inconvenience on the one side...
That's involved is that the woman doesn't have to raise a child she doesn't want to raise, isn't saddled with lifetime obligations, isn't responsible for financial burdens that she's unable to bear or even know how she can bear in the future.
None of that. The woman merely has to carry the pregnancy to term.
At which point, the adoption agency sort of steps in.
So balancing, if you will, the inconvenience to the mother versus the child's right to life, I mean, think about it.
This is its whole future, its whole destiny, its chance to live in the first place.
Amy Coney Barrett's point is, what are you saying, you know?
And Elizabeth Preligar, of course, spouted a bunch of incomprehensible nonsense.
But the leftists picked this theme up, and I find it really fascinating.
Here's an article in Vogue magazine that says that this was a, quote, moment of repugnance.
This woman was just repelled by Amy Coney Barrett, even bringing up adoption.
And I'm going to just read because it gives a window into the psychology of the left.
As a queer woman hoping to start a family in the not-too-distant future, I felt a particular sense of unease listening to Barrett Frame adoption in this way.
And she goes, my right to parent as a queer person should not be remotely connected to another person being forced to carry their pregnancy to term.
So really what she's saying is, even the act of having the child is too much to ask of the woman.
Let's think about it. The woman has participated with a man in creating this child.
No one made them do it.
They've done it on their own and by their own actions.
And yet, it's too much to ask that this pregnancy be delivered.
In the New York Times, Elizabeth Spears writes an essay.
She's an adoptee herself, but she says that adoption can be, quote, infinitely more difficult, expensive, dangerous, and potentially traumatic than terminating a pregnancy in the early stage.
Now, she's looking, perhaps, and I would agree that if you're talking about just walking in and out of an abortion clinic, As opposed to, let's say, carrying the pregnancy to term for nine months.
Technically speaking, this is true.
But she goes on very interestingly to talk about the fact that mothers who give up their children experience heartbreak over the years.
Where's my child? Who's raising my child?
Well, yeah, but what would the other option have been?
Don't you think that the same mother would experience regrets over, I killed my kid.
My kid will never see the light of day.
I gave birth to this kid.
I mean, I conceived this child, but then I refused to raise it.
And then she talks, and she has the chutzpah to talk about the difficulties faced by adoptive children, which actually, by the way, are real.
Adoptive children often experience an identity crisis and this sort of thing.
But again, compared to what?
Which adoptive child would say, I'm experiencing an identity crisis.
I wish I had been raised by my own birth parent.
I'm happy to be raised by someone else.
But you know what? My first choice is basically to have a pair of forceps Smash my head!
I don't think that's going to be a common thought on the part of adoptees.
Now, here's an adoptee, by the way, Rebecca Carroll, who's apparently written a book about this.
She's evidently black, and her book is called Surviving the White Gaze.
And this really angered me because she goes, quote, this is her story about, quote, the enduring trauma of being adopted into a white family.
And I thought, well, did the white family mistreat you in some way?
It turns out, no. There's no mistreatment at all.
The trauma is the fact that she, a black child, was raised by a white family.
And I'm thinking to myself, if it's enduring trauma for you to be adopted by a white family...
You might consider that the black family, that the black parents that gave birth to you, didn't want you.
And two, there were evidently no black couples who chose to adopt you.
The white family stepped in, so aren't you grateful that somebody stepped in?
Aren't you grateful that some family raised you?
And so this idea of turning around and bashing the process and bashing Amy Coney Barrett This is Rebecca Carroll.
She has, quote, damaged the psyches of her own black adoptive children by even raising the topic.
So I think this is the ghoulish philosophy that is modern progressivism.
In a sense, what they're saying is, Is that abortion, including late-term abortion.
I mean, you talk about the trauma of having a child.
What about the trauma of going through a partial birth abortion, a late-term abortion?
That's a hideous trauma.
But the left defends it relentlessly.
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Guys, I'd like to introduce you to Paul Kengor.
Paul is a professor of political science at Grove City College in Pennsylvania.
He's written, gosh, something like 20 books.
Paul, welcome to the podcast.
I remember one of your early books on the life and faith of Reagan.
You talked about Reagan's, you know, Reagan had a kind of whimsical religiosity.
He'd sometimes refer to the man upstairs.
He wasn't explicitly religious, perhaps, in the way that George W. Bush was.
But I remember that book and I loved it.
And now you have a new one.
book, The Devil and Karl Marx. And I want to get into that one. But let me start by just asking you to say a word about Reagan. I see the Reagan poster behind you. This was a guy who was at the bottom animated by Deep Faith, wasn't he? He was, yeah. And God or Ronald Reagan is very much the antithesis of The Devil and Karl Marx, is it not? And in fact, I remember, Dinesh, your book on Reagan, right? How an ordinary man became an
extraordinary leader. And you and I go way back.
I remember in the 1990s meeting with our old friend B. Kenneth Simon, Ken Simon, for whom the Simon Center at the Heritage Foundation is named.
It was just me and you.
I think we had dinner with With him up on Mount Washington.
And back then, we were talking about Reagan.
And we were talking about Reagan's faith.
We were probably talking about Marxism as well.
Well, you know, Paul, and of course, I should remind people that you were also, I interviewed you in my Obama movie, right?
2016, Obama is America.
And so you were a big part of telling the Obama story that people weren't fully aware of in 2012 when that movie came out.
Well, and it's interesting.
At that time, I talked about Frank Marshall Davis, who was a mentor to Obama and was an actual Communist Party USA member.
In fact, his Communist Party USA number was 47544.
And you could go to his Wikipedia page right now and find that that book that I wrote, which I think debuted in the top 10 at the New York Times, isn't even cited one time, which just goes to show you how big tech scrubs all of this stuff.
Frank Marshall Davis, when he was underground with the Communist Party in Hawaii, they referred to the party as the church, Dinesh, as the church.
So they always had this kind of religious sense about communism.
Raymond Aron called it the opium of the intellectuals, right?
Ronald Reagan used to say, Marxism, Leninism, that religion of theirs.
So it's very ironic, and you've seen this so often, right, that the left kind of prides itself on its intellectual superiority and looks at religious people as kind of superstitious idiots, you know, the opiate of the masses, as Marx did.
And yet, you know, they treat Marxism, Leninism, communism, this atheistic philosophy, almost like a religion, or at least as a way of life.
Reagan saw that. It was one of the things that drove Reagan away from liberals in Hollywood because they were duped so often by communists.
And of course, it all starts with Marx and the Communist Manifesto in 1848.
He said, I'm essentially laying out some scientific laws of history.
I'm not even so much advocating a revolution.
I'm predicting it.
And yet, if you look at Marx, and you look at Marx closely, you see not only that this guy was a kind of theologian, but you imply he was sort of a theologian of Satan.
Well, and Engels, at Marx's funeral, quoted Darwin.
And Ingalls also quoted Darwin at Marx's wife, Jenny's funeral.
And he boasted, Ingalls boasted, that Marx was doing for the social sciences what Darwin did for the biological sciences, right?
So he's given this veneer of scientific credibility to the social sciences, right, to economics.
And Marx believed that like biological evolution, history was evolving through this series of stages.
So you'd go from feudalism and slavery to capitalism to socialism to communism.
So my old friend Marion Smith from the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation used to say, well, what's the difference between a socialist and a communist?
Well, just as a Christian aspires to heaven, a socialist aspires to communism, right?
That's sort of the earthly utopia.
Yeah, that's where they're headed for.
That's where they're going. And it's really important to understand, too, that a lot of Marx's racism, which I talk about at length in this book, you know, hey, Patrice Cullors, founder of Black Lives Matter, you call yourself a Marxist, you might want to listen up, right?
You know, Marx's racism was evolutionary-based.
He believed that human beings were not created in the image of God, the Imago Dei, right, the Judeo-Christian view of human beings, but that they evolved from apes.
And Marx and Engels both believed that Black people were lower in the evolutionary scale than white people.
And Dinesh, this is striking.
To sit down and read letters between Marx and Engels in German, and then you see the word N-I-G-G-E. They actually used the English word.
They didn't even use a German word for Negro or something like that.
These guys were racist, and those racist viewpoints stem from their atheistic philosophies.
You said something very important.
You said that socialism is a way station on the journey to communism.
And I think this is important not just because it shows how the two concepts are linked, but it shows that the Marxist ideology wasn't merely economic.
When people think of socialism, they think of redistribution.
They think about sorting out the wealth.
But they don't think about the larger sphere of human life.
But communism wasn't just about economics, isn't it?
Communism is ultimately a philosophy that replaces the whole Christian worldview.
That's exactly right. Pope John Paul II said the problem with Marx was an anthropological failure.
I mean, forget that it's bad economics.
It's obviously bad economics.
But if you just read the book, and you and I have both spoken for Young America's Foundation for years, right?
And I go all the time around the country giving this talk at colleges called Why Communism is Bad.
And some young person will come up to me and say, well, but communism is a pretty good book if you just read it, right?
And I'll say, really?
Come on now. Have you read it?
Come on, have you?
And they say, well, you know.
I may have skipped around a little bit.
And I'll tell them, read it.
Because this is not just a book that talks about sharing wealth.
I mean, this is a really radical, radical book.
Marx called for, quote, the ruthless criticism of everything that exists.
Marx had a favorite phrase, a favorite line.
It was from Goethe's Fals, the Mephistopheles character, the demon, devil character.
It was a favorite quote of Marx.
Marx's family said he would chant this line.
The line was, everything that exists deserves to perish.
Everything that exists deserves to perish.
Marx was an absolute revolutionary.
Communism is a revolutionary ideology.
This isn't about tinkering with tax rates and redistribution of the wealth and the welfare state.
This is about raising the foundation, R-A-Z-I-N-G raising, right?
Taking it down, completely rebuilding from the bottom up.
Everything that exists deserves to perish.
I mean, this is a radical project When we come back, let's go into this because I think you're onto something big here.
If God is the creator and sustainer, Marx becomes the opposite of that.
Marx becomes the destroyer.
We'll be right back with Paul Kangor in a minute.
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I'm back with Paul Kingo, political scientist at Grove City College, author of The Devil and Karl Marx.
Paul, let's talk about Marx's view of religion, and I'm just going to read a line or two and have you comment on it.
This is the famous passage about religion being the opium of the people.
So Marx writes, Religious suffering is, at one at the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering.
Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions.
It is the opium of the people, and then Marx goes on to write, the abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their life.
Real happiness.
Now, as I read this, what Marx is saying is that you've got all this social injustice, religion is consoling people and habituating them to their conditions as they are, but it's preventing people from developing the revolutionary consciousness and energy to do something about it.
This is what I, Marx, am proposing, but in order for us socialists and communists to do something about it, We've got to remove the illusory solution, which is religion.
Am I reading this right?
Because it seems like in your reading you'll go beyond this to say that there's something more insidious at work here.
Well, that's right. And that's why they had to actually proactively and aggressively and militantly go after religion.
So this isn't about separation of church and state, or irreligion, or having no position on religion.
You know, this is aggressive militant atheism.
He also says in that Opiate of the Masses essay, the criticism of religion is the beginning of all criticism, which is a pretty profound statement, actually.
I mean, he's right. The criticism of religion is the beginning of all criticism.
And he really saw, too, the undermining of religion is the beginning of undermining everything.
So for him, and I mean, how many times have you heard, Dinesh, people over the years say, well, I understand what Marx meant about religion being a kind of a drug, right?
I mean, even for believers, right?
It is, it's kind of, you know, it's something, it's a kind of a crutch for all of us, but we believe as Christians, as Jews, you know, we believe that it's something you can lean on that's real, right?
Marx believes it's kind of phony.
But when you read that entire quote, right, the heart of a heartless world, The soul of soulless conditions.
It is the opiate of the masses.
I mean, he had a much darker view of religion than that.
This isn't just seeing it as a drug.
I mean, he saw it as a very bad influence that needed to be eliminated.
And all subsequent communists and communist parties, Soviet Union and all the others, sought to do and implement precisely that.
I mean, I think that's a key point, which is to say that sometimes people say that we have to distinguish Marxist comments, which could be sort of taken incidentally, almost like they're a footnote of some sort.
But then when you look at the Marxist regimes, I mean, Lenin, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Castro, I mean, they adopted this militant atheism and institutionalized it.
Showing that this was obviously a central part of the socialist and communist ideology.
I mean, even in this country, where you don't have maybe a militant atheism of that sort, I mean, it's unmistakable the left's hostility and the socialist hostility to religion, isn't it?
It is. And I think maybe the most telling line in the entire communist manifesto at the very end of the book is Marx and Engels write, the communism calls for quote, and listen people, if you're taking notes, get ready for this one, the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions.
The forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions.
They call for quote, abolition of the state of things.
So, these guys, there wasn't any nuance here, right?
It's not like, well, we just need, if we could just change this, if we could get the tax rates correct, if we could change people's...
These guys want to, you know, abolition of the present state of things?
I mean, if you or I were teaching and a student handed in an essay...
Professor, my theme here is I'm going to call for the forcible overthrow of everything that exists, right?
We'd probably give them an F or report them to the dean or authorities, right?
But these guys were the radicals radical.
And I don't think, in fact, I know most of the young people today who say positive things about communism, they really are saying it out of ignorance.
I mean, anything that says, as the manifesto does, abolition of the family or, quote, the entire communist theory may be summed up in the single sentence, abolition of private property.
I mean, that's madness.
If you try to abolish private property, you're going to have to kill...
100 million people, right?
It's just obvious.
I mean, the starting point of all of this is completely flawed.
And who gives a rip if Marx was right about some of his assessments of how bad child labor was in the 1800s?
Well, you can read a million people who got that right.
What, you're going to go and follow the guy's entire creed and philosophy because he got that right?
It's all flawed because it starts from a flawed starting point.
John Paul II, you talk about Benedict, you go into the Catholic tradition, the encyclicals, Rerum Novarum, and then Quadragesimo Anno, and you say that the Catholic Church has a sort of consistent anti-socialist and anti-communist message.
So my question is, what about Pope Francis?
You've got a guy here that comes out of South America, that appears to come out of a Not a Che Guevara, but certainly a liberation theology tradition seems more friendly to socialism, if not to communism.
Is this a disturbing development to have the head of the church, the organization that to some degree represents theism against this atheist ideology?
Where is that going to go?
It is. And in fact, Pope Pius IX published Qui Pluribus in 1846, two years before the Manifesto was even published.
Worried about how communism would lead to the complete destruction of society.
Really dire stuff.
Pope Francis said, and I think this was in 2013, Quote, the Marxist ideology is wrong.
He said that. And then I think the remainder of the quote, Dinesh, is, but I know communists who are good people or something like that, right?
But that's all that he said.
I mean, that is all that he said.
There is no long string of arguments or statements or encyclicals or statements from the church from him.
He said very, very, very little.
He clearly thinks it's wrong, but he's still sympathetic.
To some forms of socialism, redistributionism.
And I think you got it right in setting up the question.
I think a lot of it is a product of his environment in Argentina.
And a lot of what he saw growing up there and as a bishop there, as a priest there, is what we would call sort of, you know, crony capitalism, right?
It's really not true free markets.
It's a very distorted view of capitalism.
And I think it's led him to a very distorted view of markets and even of socialism.
Well, we have come to the end of our time.
We've unfortunately just touched the surface of a very rich book.
The book by Paul Kinger is called The Devil and Karl Marx.
Paul, we're going to have to have you back sometime so we can delve more into all this.
Thanks for joining me on the podcast.
Anytime, Dinesh. Keep up your good work.
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