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July 27, 2021 - Dinesh D'Souza
53:17
HOME OF THE BRAVE? Dinesh D’Souza Podcast Ep140
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What's it like to be a political prisoner in Biden's America?
My exclusive interview with a January 6th protester.
This is the Dinesh D'Souza podcast.
The times are crazy and a time of confusion, division, and lies.
We need a brave voice of reason, understanding, and truth.
This is the Dinesh D'Souza Podcast.
Just weeks after canceling the Keystone Pipeline and putting a whole bunch of Americans, blue-collar Americans, working-class Americans, out of a job, The Biden administration has approved the Nord Stream 2 pipeline.
Now, the Nord Stream 2 pipeline does not involve any American jobs.
It's Putin's pipeline.
It is, in fact, a 764 mile natural gas pipeline connecting Russia and Germany by the Baltic Sea.
Now, this pipeline poses all kinds of problems for the United States.
For one, it strengthens the economic ties, but also the economic dependency of Germany on Russia.
And Germany being the most important country in Europe, this means that the Russians gain more leverage in being able to make Germany do its bidding.
So that if there's an international crisis and the United States wants Germany as an ally to be on our side, the Russians can say, guys, you need our natural gas.
So you better factor that in when you decide whose side to take.
Now, isn't it interesting that Trump was accused for years of Russia collusion, of doing Putin's bidding?
Now, in fact, Trump did not do that.
He didn't do Putin's bidding on pretty much anything.
He shored up America's missile defenses in Central and Eastern Europe.
He repeatedly stood with America's kind of iron curtain allies, countries like Poland and the Ukraine, which are hostile to Russia.
He pulled the United States out of the so-called INF or Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, which was something that Russia wanted to continue.
So with Trump, you don't have any policy backing for the idea that this guy was Putin's puppet, even though the media kept repeating that slogan again and again for years.
And now we have Biden.
Who really is playing into the hands of Putin and doing it at the direct expense of the United States.
And so the question is, why?
And this gets to the broader question of what is the motivation?
What is the ideological rudder guiding the Biden administration?
Now, by and large, Republicans tend to interpret Democrats as sort of seeking the good of America, but just sort of getting it wrong.
I remember during the Obama years, I kind of chuckled because one after the other, Republican would be like, Obama doesn't understand that, you know, raising taxes has a burdensome effect on the economy.
Obama doesn't realize that Obamacare will weaken the healthcare system.
Obama doesn't realize it's not a wise idea to give five Taliban commanders for one deserter.
Obama doesn't understand the dangers posed by the Iran nuclear deal.
Now, all of this, the kind of, I call it the slow learner Obama theory, doesn't really square with the facts.
In fact, Obama understood those things.
That's why he was doing them.
He wanted to weaken the United States.
He wanted to take America down a notch in the world.
And he did. So his results were the consequence of deliberate action, not bungling on every front.
And as I tried to show in my movie on Obama and a couple of books on Obama, that Obama was captive to an anti-colonial ideology.
But it's important to realize that this anti-colonial ideology is not exclusive to Obama.
Obama did get it from his father, the dreams from my father.
But anti-colonialism has penetrated American colleges and universities.
It's penetrated the way of thinking of the left really since the 1960s.
We think back to the anti-Vietnam movement.
It was an anti-colonial movement.
It treated Vietnam, little Vietnam, as a little power that was being colonized by the United States.
Bill Ayers was an anti-colonialist.
And so this anti-colonial ideology is now part of the way Democrats see the world.
And I think this is the true explanation for what they're doing.
Here's an article by Josh Hammer, a conservative writer at Newsweek.
And he makes the argument that, quote, Biden's move is a desire to appease Merkel.
He goes on to argue that, in a sense, we're dealing with the globalist left here and that Germany is part of this kind of EU globalist project, a European integration project.
And that Biden is not trying to help Putin, but rather he's trying to appease these globalist Europeans.
He says the modern Democratic Party is very much a part of that globalist left.
But I think that this is at best an incomplete part of the picture.
The other part of the picture is that Biden...
In the anti-colonialist mode is weakening America's standing in the world.
He is giving ground in the way that only Democrats know how to do to America's very sullen and determined adversaries, people like Putin who have no trouble recognizing their own country's national interests.
And so it is not in the end Trump Who is the colluder?
Who is the appeaser?
Who is Putin's puppet?
It turns out that when it comes to actual policy, the real culprit is Biden.
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For several months now, really since the beginning of the Biden administration, maybe even earlier, conservatives and Republicans have been emphasizing the need to modify or repeal Section 230.
This is the section that gives special legal protection to digital platforms.
It treats these digital platforms kind of like the phone company or perhaps even like the post office.
The post office delivers the mail, but it's not responsible for what's in the mail.
The phone company is a platform for you to communicate with others, but the phone company is not responsible for what is said over the phone.
And it is this legal protection, this crucial protection, that enables these digital companies Because if not, they would be like a newspaper publisher or they would be liable for the content of what appears on their platforms.
And so they have been relying on this protection.
Now, Republicans had a chance to modify, if not take down, Section 230 when Republicans had the House and the Senate and the presidency.
But our team did not do that with very painful consequences because now it's kind of funny to hear people like Lindsey Graham.
I'm really getting serious about Section 230.
I mean, how pathetic is that?
Now he gets serious.
Now he wants to do something.
So at the very point when you have lost your opportunity, you're now full of conviction and vigor and you're getting your arm to the wheel.
Now, remarkably, the Democrats have started talking about modifying Section 230.
And here's where the plot really thickens.
Amy Klobuchar, Minnesota senator, has introduced a bill that would in fact create an exception to Section 230.
The Biden administration has been talking about getting rid of Section 230.
Here's a statement by the Biden Communications Director.
This is White House Communications Director Kate Benningfield.
She goes, yeah, we're reviewing that.
And certainly they should be held accountable, meaning the digital platform should be held accountable for the content that they allow or that they feature.
Now, what are Klobuchar and Biden getting at?
Because clearly they're not trying to modify Section 230 to promote free speech, right?
Or to eliminate censorship, right?
Right. And the answer is, of course, they're not trying to do those things.
In fact, they're trying to do the exact opposite.
So here is Amy Klobuchar's bill.
And what it would do, it's essentially, it carves out a kind of exception to Section 230, a public health exception.
Essentially, it says that when it comes to a, quote, public health emergency...
HHS, the Health and Human Services Department, gets to determine what constitutes misinformation and what doesn't.
And these digital platforms would be forced, essentially, to conform to the rules and guidelines established by HHS. And everything else would have to be restricted or banned.
So what you're getting at here, very creepy, is the Democrats are using their leverage over Section 230.
Remember, they have the House.
They have the Senate.
They have the presidency.
They probably can modify Section 230 if they want to.
And they're talking about modifying it in the direction of forcing more censorship.
So the exact same provision, Section 230, is targeted by Republicans to promote free speech and targeted by Democrats to accelerate and increase the magnitude of censorship.
It's very clear that for the Biden people, the motivation is exactly the same.
They want to control what they call misinformation.
But who gets to define misinformation?
After all, if you think about it, we have two major political parties, and by and large, each party considers the other one to putting out one heck of a lot of misinformation.
They're misleading the American people.
This is what political debate is all about, so the American people can sort out what is true from what is false, what is misinformation from what is merely information.
And so... The Democrats here are, as I say, using their muscle over Section 230 for a nefarious purpose.
Now, the question becomes, hey, Dinesh, do you want to see Section 230 completely eliminated?
And my answer is, when I think about it, no.
Why? Because if you actually made digital platforms liable for all their content, then they would essentially ramp up their censorship to unprecedented levels.
Why? Because they couldn't possibly afford to have any material on there that would make them liable.
They would essentially be censoring people right and left.
They would have to review all All content to make sure, well, this isn't slanderous.
This isn't libelous. This isn't going to get us into any legal trouble.
So the good news is, in some ways, these platforms would destroy themselves.
It would cease to be to have this kind of monopoly power, which I think is great.
The bad news, however, is that we would actually cease to have a real public square because you would have massive censorship going on across the board.
So really what we want is something quite different, I think.
And that is we want a society in which these platforms are like the post office.
I don't mean run by the government, of course.
What I mean is that the post office is content neutral.
You can say whatever you want.
Put it in the mail. It's your statement.
It's not the post office speaking.
It's you. But that's the point.
The post office doesn't get to regulate what you say.
The post office is a neutral platform to that degree.
And the same is true with the phone company.
The phone company doesn't intervene in your phone calls, doesn't ban you, doesn't...
Once you've paid your bill, you're fine.
You can say whatever you want on the phone.
It's your responsible for what you say.
So it's this model of content-neutral platforms that the Republicans, I think, need to get behind, need to put before the American people in the next election, elections, and say, in effect, if you want a free society...
And you want to be able to use this new technology for freedom rather than for repression.
This, then, is the way to do that.
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In the latest episode of Cancel Culture, the ADL, the Anti-Defamation League, which has historically presented itself as an organization fighting anti-Semitism, fighting racism.
It's not that anymore.
It is essentially a Marxist left-wing organization that targets patriots, targets conservatives, targets Christian organizations.
So its front, which is that we're fighting bigotry across the board, is a masquerade.
It's basically a lie.
But now the ADL has announced a partnership with PayPal.
PayPal being, of course, the mechanism for paying online.
A very successful company that has now several, well, 300-plus million users.
And this is a partnership to quote, fight extremism and hate throughout the financial industry.
We have to look a little bit closer because they're not talking about BLM. They're not talking about Antifa.
They're talking about these hate groups that they claim are trying to disrupt the democratic process.
Hint, January 6th protester types.
They're talking about white supremacists.
So they are defining their hate groups or the people that they get to designate as hate groups.
And this is really where the kind of sleight of hand comes in.
You have organizations that are perfectly respectable, that are fighting for religious liberty.
Oh, that's a Christian hate group.
That are fighting to get a proper audit of election results.
Oh, that's a white supremacist group.
So it's very easy to just tag your opponents with this broad brush of hate.
And then what? Well, apparently what they want to do is to, quote, uncover and disrupt the financial pipelines that support these groups.
So not only do they want PayPal to cut these groups off, they want to, they say, quote, the intelligence gathered through this research initiative will be shared broadly across the financial industry.
So this, I want to call it, well, it is the China model.
In China, if you go against the government, they have ways of identifying you, and then they essentially turn you into a non-person.
You can't function because you can't get a card to take the fast train.
You can't do banking.
You can't open an account. So you're essentially dismantled.
through this elaborate network.
It's a state-controlled network, although even in China, it involves private entities that are nevertheless at the thumb of the state.
And what's strange, here's ADL with a tweet, they go, you know, we're excited to announce our new partnership.
So they're excited to be part of this tyrannical process.
And Debbie and I were talking about this.
We were talking specifically about the cancellation of Mike Lindell by all these retailers.
Debbie was saying, what makes them do this?
Is it that they are just all ideologically on one side?
I don't think that's really it.
They make it sound like, well, I mean, these businesses always lie about why they're doing it.
When Bed Bath& Beyond cancel Lindell, I'm now quoting from a statement that they issued, they go, quote, we are continually improving our product line.
We have been rationalizing our assortment to discontinue a number of underperforming items and brands.
This includes the MyPillow product lines.
To give you an idea, well, this was a business decision.
This was not spurred by anything.
But in fact, it was. Left-wing boycott groups that frankly have no power to boycott.
But what they do have is the power to smear.
They have the power to call you, you're a white supremacist, you're a racist.
And it is this... We're good to go.
But he had no ability to handle the left.
And what they would do is, I mean, they would scream at him for nothing.
They'd have a protest, and if he didn't show up, they'd say, you know, we are outraged that you didn't show up at our protest.
And then this idiot would come out, you know, bumblingly out of the president's office, and he would say things like, My absence should not be interpreted as an effort to be insensitive to your burning needs.
So this is what happens to weak-kneed people, people who have no spine, no moral self-confidence, no ability to recognize a scam, no ability to confront the scam artists.
They operate in a very narrow world.
And And cowardice is their defining trait.
And I think that's what's going on here.
These corporations ultimately want to...
They're more scared of the pressure being applied from the left than anything equivalent that can be applied from the right.
And this is why they succumb.
this is why they end up becoming not just woke, but instruments themselves of a controlling, dominating, intolerant, and in some ways tyrannical state.
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The Biden administration is supposedly conducting an investigation into the origins of COVID-19.
Now, let's remember that they commenced this investigation largely as a response to pressure because not just the public, but prominent virologists were saying, hey, you can't dismiss the lab origins theory.
And the Biden administration, which had shut down a similar investigation that was being conducted under Mike Pompeo and the Trump, Welcome to my show!
But there are indications here that not only the Chinese, but also the NIH, the National Institutes for Health, is complicit in preventing the full facts from coming to light.
Now, here's a little discovery by a prominent American virologist.
This is a guy... We're good to go.
And he noticed that there was data at the NIH. This was data logged in by China by a team of academics from Wuhan about the original sequences of the virus that were put into a US-based archive.
And obviously, this is very important because the question is, who got the virus first?
When did they get it?
And there was a whole database on this that had been submitted by the Chinese themselves.
But it turns out that the Chinese, three months after they presented that data and it was archived, asked for the data to be deleted, to be removed from the NIH database.
And the NIH did it.
Now, the NIH says today, well, you know, quote, submitting investigators hold the rights to their data and can request withdrawal of the data.
So the NIH is acting like, well, you know, they kind of own it.
And if they want to take it back, they can.
But, of course, given the extreme significance of this data.
Now, interestingly, Bloom...
This is Jesse Bloom, the virologist, was successful in being able to recover the data.
That's the good part. Now, he says that the data is not definitive about the origins of COVID. It doesn't settle the question of did COVID come from the lab or did it come from a wet market.
He says, however, he says two things about it.
One, he says the data do provide evidence of deliberate obfuscation of the early events and the emergence of COVID. So what he says is that, number one, it's clear that the Chinese are trying to hide something.
The very fact that they withdrew the database and deleted it shows you they don't want people to really have this data.
And number two, it shows that the virus started earlier than the Chinese have let on.
So the incident demonstrates further evidence of how the Chinese have not been transparent, and it also says that the virus had been circulating in Wuhan for longer than Chinese authorities have admitted.
So, this incident, the Bloom incident, we can call it, shows us that there are powerful people, not just in China, but perhaps also in the United States, at the NIH and the Biden administration, that say they want the full facts to come to light, but their actions suggest they don't.
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I've long been interested in the issue of status because I see that in different countries, status is viewed differently, measured differently.
Now, people everywhere, and this seems to be almost part of human nature, seek status.
They seek to sort of distinguish themselves.
They want to be... Stand above, head and shoulders above others.
And of course, there's the phenomenon in America that we read about and hear about, the keeping up with the Jones, which is to say, make sure that somebody else doesn't have more status than you do.
This is often described as the great aspiration of the American middle class.
Now interestingly, in India where I grew up, there is not a single measure of status.
They say in America there is.
It's money. By and large, money is a kind of measure of how far you have gotten in life.
Perhaps in America you'd have to also add where you went to college, but I would say money is in fact the dominant measure of status.
But in India it's not like that.
In India, for example, you may have a guy who's sort of dirt poor, but he'll say, Well, you know what?
I'm a superior human being because I'm at the top rung of the caste system.
I'm a Brahmin.
I'm descended from the priestly class.
And so he's got a completely different measure of status that has nothing to do with money.
And he looks down on people who have a great deal more money than he does, but who aren't evidently Brahmins.
And then you have other measures of status.
Being educated is a measure, and also, for example, the ability to speak English.
That is a mark of status, particularly in urban communities in India.
And money is a measure of status, but as I say, it's not the sole measure.
It's one of four or five different measures of status.
I noticed that traveling in Europe, that Europeans prize the fact that they have wonderful taste.
This is especially true of the French.
For them, it's all about quality.
In Italy, for example, I noticed that I was once visiting a family and I happened to peek into their closet.
I noticed that this Italian guy, by the way, a respectable upper middle class guy, he owned only two suits.
And he just wore them alternatively.
Monday one, Tuesday the next one.
Back to the first one on Monday.
But he took great pride in the fact that they were Armani suits.
He had paid, I don't know, $1,500 or $2,000.
And then I noticed that in America, by contrast, and this was, I noticed this when I worked in Washington, D.C., but it's true, of course, in many cities around the country, Americans own a lot of suits.
8 suits, 10 suits.
I've seen people who had 20 suits.
But they'll buy their suits cheap.
They'll buy their suits for $200.
And so, in a sense, the American values abundance, a lot of choices, all different colors.
Whereas for the Italian, it's all about having a single suit that is the perfect suit with the perfect cut.
And when you've got that, you just need a black, and you need a brown, and then you need a pair of really nice shoes.
Now... I just read an article in the Harvard Business Review talking about how status symbols are changing, not just in America, but also in Europe.
A move away from kind of the screaming brands of, hey, I've got some Tiffany jewelry on.
Hey, look at the Mercedes symbol on the front of my car.
So conspicuous brands that signaled that you were kind of a member of the top or rung of society.
But now, says this article in the Harvard Business Review, people are moving more towards subtle signaling.
Ways in which, you may almost say, affluent communities do wink-wink to each other.
Hey, look, we're eating at a farm-to-table organic restaurant.
Or, hey, look, we have a very expensive watch, but it doesn't have any kind of signal.
But rather, you can just tell by the kind of watch it is and other people who happen to have it that this is the best watch to have.
So, a move toward subtle branding.
Now, At the end of the day, there's a certain kind of foolishness to all this because people are trying to impress other people and I have to ask myself, for what?
Well, because I want other people to realize I'm so successful.
But people who try to do that don't realize that that is often not the reaction that they elicit from others.
Instead, the reaction that they get, not that surprising, hatred.
Dirty looks, envy, resentment.
So far from getting the kind of admiring deferential plaudits of other people, you only, through your displays of wealth and extravagance, you only invite hostility.
And so...
I think that status at the end is an idle pursuit.
It's good to have things of quality.
My dad liked to say, you know, the best is always the cheapest.
And what he meant is that if you can buy a watch and it lasts you for 20 years, it's better than buying 10 watches that last you for two years.
You'll actually end up spending more for the 10 watches than you would for the single watch that's going to last you for the full duration.
So it's kind of a good lesson in life to pursue quality, to pursue things that are good, that are excellent.
And not worry too much about the social display.
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I'm really happy to have on the podcast Michael Curzio.
Michael is one of the January 6th defendants, one of the first ones, I believe, to have his case resolved.
And I'm thankful to Julie Kelly for connecting the two of us.
Michael, thanks very much for coming on.
I know you've been through quite an ordeal.
In fact, is it not a fact that you just got out of jail July 14th?
Yes, sir, it is. And thank you for having me on your show.
Let me start by asking you about...
Let's start at the beginning.
I'd like to just walk you through the process.
You went to Washington on January 6th, but you said in an interview that you didn't just go to Washington because of Trump or because of the election.
You also went for kind of a broader purpose.
Say what that was. Well...
Myself, like millions of other people, last year, 2020 was a horrendous year for everyone.
And I had started a business and I was actually successful first starting off.
And once the pandemic hit, it seemed like certain government officials were trying to basically put their foot on the American people's neck.
And people couldn't, you know, they didn't know where the economy was going.
People couldn't afford their rents or their bills and and and everything was uncertain So I myself and and millions of other people we just had enough of it we were tired of being oppressed and I Went there to have my voice be heard and just you know enough is enough. We are Americans we this is a free country and we need to be able to do our part and and live and survive without Being told that we can't go out of our houses or we can't work Now, let's talk about what you did
in the capital.
It said that you entered the Capitol on January 6th.
You did not bring a weapon.
You didn't assault any police officers.
You didn't get into any fights with anybody.
You were in there, and then you left.
Describe why you went in there, because, of course, as you know, the left's We keep hearing that you wanted to overthrow the Constitution.
You wanted to lead an insurrection.
This is an effort to overthrow the government.
What was your motive for actually going inside the Capitol?
And what did you do when you got there?
My personal motive was to go in there.
Basically, that's the people's building.
And the government didn't want to hear what we had to say.
In the First Amendment, it says that we're allowed to You know, address grievances to the government.
And they had that building shut off.
We should have been allowed to go in there and let them know that we wanted them to do the right thing.
And they know what the right thing was.
And my personal reason for going in there was just to have my voice be heard.
When I entered the building, I was yelling, we're not Antifa, don't smash anything, don't break anything, don't loot, don't fight with the police.
We just want to have our voices be heard.
I didn't do anything violent.
I walked through a door where there was approximately six officers standing 20 feet away from it that were just letting people walk in.
And nobody told us to stop.
Nobody told us to leave.
At least the areas where I was and me personally, I didn't hear anybody.
I actually talked with some officers in there and told them I hope they make it home to their families and that they should be with us.
It was basically that the little clips that you see of people having skirmishes with the police officers, that's not how it was throughout the whole building.
My personal experience in there, it was, you know, we were just there to regress a grievance and we wanted them to know that we the people are going to stand here and we want you to do your jobs.
All this insurrection and overthrowing the government, to the contrary, we wanted the government to do the right thing and do its job is actually what we wanted.
Now, you went home, and you live in Florida, and a few days later, January 14th, you were arrested.
Describe what happened to you.
How were you arrested?
Well, to be exact, I was arrested in the Capitol building on January 6th by D.C. police.
I was held for approximately seven hours, and then I was released with a notice to appear in a citation for unlawful entry of a Capitol building.
I was given a court date for June 10th, 2021, and I was sent on my way.
I made it all the way back home. I was working.
I was in the process of trying to get a hold of legal counsel.
And on January 14th, I had left work and I was heading to the junkyard to look for a part from my truck.
And right on 301 and County Road 42, approximately five miles from my home, I had a gray SUV pull in front of my truck.
I had another SUV pull on the side of my truck, and then I had local law enforcement behind me.
And all of them, I had six guns held out on me.
At that point only I had two misdemeanors.
I had six guns drawn on me, yelling and screaming at me, cursing at me, telling me to get the F out of my truck.
I opened my door, they grabbed me out, U.S. Murphurs handcuffed me, and then they threw me in the back of a squad car and took me to jail.
All of this based upon four misdemeanor charges, as I understand, including trespassing and disorderly conduct.
You weren't charged with sedition.
You weren't charged with any felonies.
You had four misdemeanor charges.
Let's talk a little bit about...
Your confinement over this almost six-month period, beginning on January 14th, you were in a series of different jails, and then you ended up in the D.C. jail.
Talk about that. Well, when they took me to Marion County Jail, on January 14th, I only had two misdemeanors.
And then five days later, they tacked on two more.
So in a grand total, I had four misdemeanors.
But I was held in solitary confinement, 23-1, from January 14th up until I was at the D.C. jail.
And when did you get to the D.C. jail?
February 3rd.
Okay, we're going to take a pause.
So when we come back, I'm going to ask Michael Curzio about conditions in the jail, the other guys who were there, and what life is like as a political prisoner in Biden's America.
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I'm back with January 6th protester and defendant Michael Curzio.
Michael, I want to talk to you about conditions in the jail, but before I do that, the justification for holding you in jail all this time, these several months, I'm now quoting from the government motion.
Curzio does not engage in destructive or violent behavior and does not appear to encourage or discourage disorderly conduct.
But they say, quote, you unregretfully traveled over 900 miles to join a wild mob, unlawfully entered the Capitol, defied a police order to leave, and committed offenses that threatened the governance of the republic.
Now, we're all used to this kind of ridiculous and overblown rhetoric.
And what did the judge say?
Did he go along with this when this was presented to him?
Did he go, yeah, this man is a danger to the republic?
Or did he express any skepticism about you, a nonviolent offender, who didn't commit any acts of violence, didn't accost or confront the cops?
What was the judge's reaction when the prosecutors tried to sell him on this...
Line that makes you kind of a danger to the country.
Well, believe it or not, I had a Trump-appointed judge, and he, at first, when we first went for a detention hearing back in February, he sounded like he was going to be on our side.
And, you know, I'm on the side of justice.
It's not, you know, on the side of what was right was right, what was wrong was wrong.
But the only thing that What the government really tried to use against me was my past.
It was really nothing to do with January 6th.
And the judge first started saying, well, you're using the man's past, but he has already done his time.
He's been released. I had no probation, no nothing.
And I was allowed to, as far as I know, free in America, move from state to state and go wherever you want.
They kept on saying basically that I was a danger to the community, a danger to society.
No amount of supervised release or any stipulations would stop me from doing anything, which I didn't do anything, period.
I was peaceful the whole time.
Even when the police came and arrested me inside the building, I walked off with him.
I didn't fight with them.
I didn't have any indications or anything.
I peacefully walked off with the police officer and they placed me in zip-tie handcuffs and that was that.
But, you know, it's just a bunch of lies just to For their narrative.
You know, they want to make us look like the worst people possible.
And because I had a past, they just really wanted to run with it.
And the judge, once he found out about my past and certain things about me, he just ran with it too and agreed with the government.
Okay, so you had a previous offense, you did your time, you were not on probation or parole, as you say.
Let's talk about solitary confinement, because it's really hard for me to imagine being confined for 23 hours a day, kind of in a cell by yourself.
I mean, isn't there a sense in which you, I mean, don't you feel like you're going to go nuts?
Actually, you know what? It did happen a little bit, and you get in your head a lot, you know, because in the D.C. jail, we have nothing but the D.C. news, and everybody just thought that their lives were coming to an end.
What we see on the news in there is that they're really going to get us, they're going to hammer us.
You see some guys that are facing 20 years plus years for offenses, and some of the stuff that they did, it's outright lies that the government's saying that they did, you know?
Sitting in a cell for 23 hours a day, you get in your head a lot.
You don't get to see your family.
You don't get to talk to your family.
But one hour a day, and a lot of times, you know, you have people in that dorm that are from different parts of the country, different time zones.
So when they finally get out for their hour, they can't even talk to their family because it might be too late or it might be too early.
And it just, you know, being away from your family is the worst part.
And then you have some of the guards, not all of them, but you have some of the guards that don't like us.
They don't care to let us out.
They'll deny us our wreck.
So they'll walk by and if you're not standing at your cell door or your bed's not made, you'll get denied your wreck.
You won't even be able to take a shower. You're just in your cell for another 24 hours.
Now, you have seen over the past year, the BLM guys, the Antifa guys, these guys have been burning churches, they've been storming the courthouse in Portland.
They've been doing stuff that would seem to be far in excess of any actions undertaken, not just by you, but also by others.
I mean, A, does it make you angry when you see this discrepancy of treatment?
And second of all, does it feel sometimes like you're not living in the United States of America?
Absolutely. And here's my thing on that, BLM and Antifa.
Okay, if you guys want to protest, by all means protest.
But you know, when you get destructive and violent, that's You know, and you incite the violence and the destruction.
That's where it's wrong. You know, everybody has a right to protest, no matter what it is.
Okay? That's what America is about.
It's a free country and you can protest whatever you want.
But when you start treating people differently, they do the same thing.
Okay? And last year, I could have sworn that there was a three or four day siege on the White House where they had to evacuate the president to a bunker.
Those people were smashing cops in the head with frozen water bottles, Campbell's soup cans, and bricks and nothing happened. Or if they did get arrested, they were only incarcerated for a few days.
And not only were they incarcerated for a few days, they were bailed out and they sued the government. From what I heard, some of them were getting $20,000 per day for being incarcerated.
Yeah, the DC government It doesn't feel like America.
Yeah, they paid a settlement out to those guys for supposedly mistreating them, so the discrepancy in treatment couldn't be more blatant.
Now, I find it kind of touching, but also a little bit disheartening that in this America...
I mean, you guys, you and your fellow defendants, still maintain a certain...
I mean, you haven't lost your patriotism, and I say that because I understand that every day, at the end of the day, there's a singing of the national anthem.
First of all, talk about who started that, and is it something that's going on even now?
Talk about that kind of remarkable event that you do kind of collectively every day.
Well, some months back...
There were several of us that got together.
And we were like, you know, everybody was down.
Everybody was getting out. Guys that were losing their minds.
And every night at 9 o'clock, we just decided to sing the national anthem.
And it just grew.
And there were actually, believe it or not, there's some officers in there that really enjoy it when we do it.
But there's also some officers that when we do it, they'll come in and curse at us.
We had an incident a couple months ago where we were at 11 o'clock.
I think we were singing God Bless America.
And an officer came in there.
And his name is Holmes, by the way.
And he came in there and told us to shut the F up or he's going to lock down the dorm.
So one of our patriots said, hey, man, we're singing God Bless America.
You know, there's nothing wrong with that.
And he blatantly says several times, F America and F you too.
And then he came in there and threatened the guy that was speaking to him.
So you have some officers in there that really don't like us or don't care about us and they don't care for us.
But we do it every night.
Still to this day, I know they're still singing the national anthem.
I mean, it seems to some degree, just based on your description, that the BLM ideology is reflected here on the part of these officers who are, you know, in a sense, view the country in a bad light.
They probably feel that you guys represent the worst of what the country is.
You asked when we talked about doing this interview that at the end, we play...
God Bless America.
I'm sorry, the Star Spangled Banner, the National Anthem, just to sort of honor the sacrifice and the courage of the January 6th defendants who are, I think, facing political persecution in Biden's America.
So I asked Debbie.
We made a recording. My wife, Debbie, is a singer.
We made a recording of the Star Spangled Banner.
So at the end of this interview...
We're going to play the Star Spangled Banner at your request and in sort of solidarity with people unjustly held as political prisoners, as a part of the political targeting that I think has now become a hallmark of the Biden administration.
Hey, Michael, I want to really thank you for taking the time for joining me today.
Actually, I know you're on your job, and they've given you a little break to be able to do this.
I really appreciate it, and I appreciate your courage, and I also thank you for telling your story.
Can I say, is this the last one?
Yes, go for it. What I was talking to you about earlier with Cynthia, she's Tim Hale's aunt, a relative, and she has Patriot Freedom Project.
And... That's a support for our guys that are in there and the families.
And I also wanted to let people know that I had gotten some information from Pete Santilli that Sidney Powell is outraged at what's happening in there with the guys that are not being able to get shaves and a haircut.
They're making us go in front of our judges looking like the Unabomber.
Okay? I mean, it's appalling.
And Sidney Powell's actually joined to try to get them their proper shaves, haircuts, and hygiene.
So our guys can actually look presentable and not be judged by their appearance.
Certainly. We'll make sure to put the website up there so people can get information and also contribute and support you guys and support the families that are obviously in a difficult position because of all this.
Once again, Michael, thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you too, Mr. D'Souza.
God bless you. Oh, say can you see By the dawn's early light What so proudly we hailed At the twilight's last gleaming Whose broad stripes and bright stars Through the perilous fight O'er the ramparts we watched Were so gallantly streaming And the rocket's red glare,
the bombs bursting in air, gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
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