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May 14, 2021 - Dinesh D'Souza
01:00:28
THE CASE FOR ISRAEL Dinesh D’Souza Podcast Ep 90
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Why should we care what's happening in Israel?
I'll tell you. I'll make the moral case for Israel.
And also Kelly Ward, the chairman of the Arizona GOP, offers secrets of the Maricopa audit.
This is the Dinesh D'Souza Podcast.
The times are crazy in a time of confusion, division, and lies.
We need a brave voice of reason, understanding, and truth.
This is the Dinesh D'Souza Podcast.
Israel and the Palestinians may be moving toward a major conflict.
The initial clashes there have escalated.
We are now talking about Hamas firing rockets into Israel, Israel firing back air raids, the possibility of an Israeli invasion of Gaza.
This has become a troubling situation.
Now the question is, why should we care?
I say this because at the first glance it would appear that America's dependency on the Middle East has become much less.
Our strategic interests are less involved.
Why? Because ever since World War II, America's dependency on the Middle East was largely connected to oil.
But with America becoming virtually self-sufficient in oil, with oil discoveries elsewhere in the world, America is no longer dependent at all.
And a lot of people might say, well, gee, time to sort of dust off and We're good to go.
There's actually a deeper reason not to look the other way.
For one, at least for those of us who are Christians, there is a deep Christian stake in the Middle East, in Israel, in Jerusalem.
Why? Because that is the holiest site in Christianity.
It's, by the way, not the holiest site in Islam.
People sometimes say, well, it's the holy site for the Jews and the Christians and the Muslims.
Well, it is, but not in an equivalent sense.
The holiest site for Islam is Mecca.
And there is, in fact, an Islamic mosque, an important mosque in Jerusalem.
And there is the Christian church and there is the Jewish temple.
Now, the beauty of all that being under the autonomy of Israel is that the Muslim worshippers can go to the mosque and the Jewish worshippers can go to the temple and the Christians can go to the church.
And religious freedom allows that.
Now, does anyone for one moment think that if the radical Muslims took over the region, imagine, for example, Hamas running that region, what would they do?
Well, they would do what Muhammad the Conqueror did in 1453 when the Muslims conquered Constantinople.
Constantinople at that time was the capital of Eastern Christianity.
There was the Hagia Sophia, the traditional cathedral.
Muhammad the Conqueror rode his horse into the cathedral and he basically said, From now on, this cathedral will be a mosque.
And so the cathedral, in a sense, was, quote, taken down, taken down in a sense, renovated to become a mosque.
So there's no doubt that the radical Muslims do not believe in religious freedom.
And today's radical Muslims are even more fanatical than some of the Muslim regimes of the past, which actually allowed Jews and Christians to live.
They were living under Sharia law.
They were second-class citizens, but they were still living and trading and worshiping, but it was under Islamic, you may say, superiority.
Today, I don't even think that would be allowed.
So the bottom line of it is the implications of Israel, in some sense, being defeated, being wiped off the map, would threaten not only the Jews, but it would also threaten, you may say, the most sacred site in Christianity.
So that's some of the spiritual significance Now, the immediate cause of the fight is actually kind of simple.
There's a group of Muslim refugees, Palestinians, who are living in the Old City, and some Jewish settlers have been fighting a lawsuit with them, actually a lawsuit that's been going on for decades, in which the Jewish settlers say that these refugees have been placed in In homes that the Jews own.
So the Jewish settlers have the title deeds to those dwellings.
And they go, this belongs to us.
You can't live here. So this is being fought out in a court case.
And it's made its way all the way up to the Israeli Supreme Court.
Now why is this a real estate fight?
Something that's going to be decided through a court system with a jury and with a judge.
And by the way, the jury is now...
In Israel, there are Jews, there are Muslims, all kinds of people on these juries.
Why not let the system take its course?
Here's why. Because in identity politics in Israel, basically what's happened is every Palestinian in the West Bank and Gaza thinks that this is a metaphor for them being displaced.
Hey, the fact that they're talking about displacing these Muslim families, making them move out of their homes, this is a symbol for what's happened to the Palestinians as a people.
And then the Jews, for their part in Israel, go, wait a minute, this idea that when you own something, you have a title deed to it, your ancestors moved here, it's their land, and it's just taken from you?
No, you have every right to get it back.
So, in a sense, every Jew begins to feel a stake in this.
So, what's happened is this has become a metaphor for the larger dispute.
And it's gotten increasingly violent.
Obviously, what's happened is the radical Muslim groups have moved in, and opportunistically, Hamas, of course, starts firing rockets into civilian targets in Israel.
Israel, of course, has this dome that intercepts the missiles, and so Israeli casualties, although there have been significant casualties, have nevertheless been kept down because of Israel's ability to defend itself.
Israel has been striking military targets.
Now, while all of this is going on, it's time to shift to the American side, where very interestingly we see two forces, the progressive left in the Congress, people like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar, and then the media.
And they have been putting out this line that, oh, they're talking about the Israeli occupation, the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.
We'll talk in the next segment about what these terms like occupation even mean.
But here what I want to focus on is this issue of...
Terrorism. Because, according to Ilhan Omar, it's the Israelis who are the terrorist force.
She goes, Israeli airstrikes killing civilians in Gaza is an act of terror.
And I want to say why that is not true.
Yes, it is true that the Hamas rockets aimed at Israel are aimed at civilian targets.
They're aimed at killing civilians.
That is their goal. And that is the classic definition of terrorism.
You are targeting civilians.
Now, the Israelis are not targeting civilians.
That's why you have this ambiguous Israeli airstrikes killing civilians.
The Israelis are actually targeting Hamas military targets.
Now, what happens is, in the crowded Gaza Strip, when you strike at military targets, you could have collateral civilian damage.
But there is a huge moral difference in, on the one hand, targeting civilians, and on the other hand, aiming at military targets and killing civilians in the process.
The former is terrorism.
The latter is not.
We're talking about the clashes, the escalating clashes in the Middle East, Israel and the Palestinians. And I want to start by talking about this idea of the Israeli occupation.
This has become part of the standard rhetoric.
Israel is a colonial power, and they are occupying Palestine.
And this, of course, raises the fundamental question, who does this land belong to?
Now, I don't claim that that's an easy question to answer, but I do dispute the idea that the left is answering it as if it were an easy question to answer.
The Israelis, of course, are the occupiers.
The Palestinians own the land.
And my question is, how do they own the land?
Let's start with something that begins in our own country.
America. We keep hearing from the left that America belongs to the American Indians.
Why? Because they are its original inhabitants.
Because they are its original inhabitants, they have the title deeds to the land.
Now, this to me is by itself a little problematic.
I mean, does the first Bedouin who gets to an oasis own the oasis?
Does he have the right to say, I came here first, so all the water on the oasis, all the land belongs to me.
What if three other Bedouins show up and they not only claim an equivalent right to drink out of the oasis and to use the land, but they have better ideas for what to do with the land and how to develop the oasis.
So I don't think it is an obvious question, but for the left it is.
Oh yes, we took this land from the Indians.
Well, if the original occupants have the title deeds to a piece of land, then by that exact same logic, the Jews, the Israelites, own all that land.
Why? They were there first. Let's follow the history of this for a moment.
This was Jewish land.
Now, in 70 AD, with the destruction of the temple, the Jews were thrown out.
There was the Jewish diaspora.
Jews scattered all over the world.
That land was occupied by different types of people under different regimes.
Eventually, Islam came along.
Let's remember that the Roman colonizers were replaced by the Islamic colonizers.
And that's how we got Muslims on that land.
But there never was a state of Palestine.
They were just Muslim farmers and sheep herders and so on on that land.
And then in 1948, this is after the Ottoman Empire, of course, collapsed, and the British, in a sense, were controlling that territory.
The British decided, in a sense, to create the state of Israel, to partition the land, to give some of it to the Jews, some of it to the Palestinians.
And the Palestinians said no deal.
The Jews accepted it.
The Palestinians said no deal.
And this is what created the state of Israel, but under tense conditions, there was the 48 war, and then there was the 1967 war, and it's in the 1967 war, by the way, a war initiated by Arab and Muslim states against Israel.
An attack from the outside involving a number of Arab countries, but Israel, kind of miraculously, I think we would say, won that war.
And that's how the West Bank and Gaza fell under Israeli control.
Interestingly, today, there are separate authorities ruling the West Bank and Gaza.
The West Bank is controlled by the Palestinian Authority.
This is Abbas. This is the old legacy of the PLO, the Palestine Liberation Organization.
Gaza is controlled by a completely different group, a rival group, Hamas.
And Hamas, I think, is accurately described as a terrorist operation, terrorist in its tactics, terrorist in how it chooses to fight.
And there's a rivalry between the Palestinian Authority and Hamas.
That is part of the backdrop of what is going on here.
Now, come back to America, where we keep hearing in the media and so on that the Palestinians believe this and the Palestinians believe that and the Muslims believe this and the Muslims believe that.
But of course, everything has changed in the Middle East and everything has changed in the Middle East because of Trump.
What Trump basically did was he reconfigured the power structure in the Middle East.
He found, when he made a few phone calls, as it turns out, that a lot of these other countries, Jordan, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates, all these countries, they do care about the Palestinians, but they don't care all that much.
They're a little bit annoyed that these people ultimately have proved to be impossible to please.
The Israelis have made offer after offer.
The Palestinians, no deal, no deal.
We want to lob bombs into you.
So these other Muslim countries are like, forget about that.
We can have separate, independent dealings with Israel.
So every time we keep hearing Rashida Tlaib and so on talk about the Muslims, she's forgetting that the Muslims in the Middle East don't agree with her.
In fact, I ask you right now, where is the big uproar coming out of Riyadh, Abu Dhabi, Rabat, Khartoum, or Amman over any of this?
Those countries, you notice, those capitals are dead silent.
The bottom line of it is that Israel has good dealings with all those people.
The Palestinians are fighting their own fight.
And it's a big pretense that, in fact, John Kerry at one time said, you know, you can't resolve anything in the Middle East without the Palestinians.
Well, Trump proved you could.
And he did. And in fact, it seems to me this is the key to why the Democratic Party has shifted into such an anti-Israel stance.
Part of it, of course, is the fact that the progressives have now come to power in the Democratic Party.
They've pushed out the The old centrists in the Democratic Party.
That's part of it. So you've got these radicals like Rashida Tlaib and AOC and Ilhan Omar, and they're driving the agenda.
But here's the other factor.
In the last four years, the Democrats have gone into kind of a reflexive stance.
If Trump is for it, we gotta be against it.
So Trump was, of course, full-throatedly, unequivocally pro-Israel.
So Democrats go, Israel must be horrible.
And so what we've seen is a shift in American politics in which the Democratic Party, which always was, Fairly pro-Israel has now become increasingly anti-Israel.
And that is the politics driving this dispute.
The bottom line of it is I hope that Israel is triumphant, not only for strategic reasons, not only for religious reasons, but also for moral reasons.
Because at the end of the day, Israel is a decent, democratic society that respects religious diversity and human rights, and the radical Muslims do not.
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I find one of the strange things about following events on social media is that you find issues that are running side by side and arguments that are running side by side, even though they involve issues that are, at least on the surface, disconnected from each other. So on the one hand, I'm reading all about Israel, escalating tensions, the potential of a full-on war in the Middle East, other countries being drawn into the
conflict, and then separately I'm seeing and following a kind of interesting debate about whether the South could even possibly have won the Civil War.
Was it a case where the South was destined to lose, the North was just simply stronger, the outcome was decided from the beginning, and it gets me thinking about this question. How do you win a war?
Could the Palestinians defeat the Israelis?
And I think the answer to that question is upon reflection, yes.
Once again, the Israelis are the superior power.
They've got massive, not only offensive, but defensive capabilities.
Even right now, Hamas, when they fire these rockets, it seems like the rockets kill more Palestinian civilians than they do Israelis.
The Israelis have a pretty effective, although not impregnable, defense.
Israel is a hundred times stronger than the Palestinians.
But then I look around and I see that in recent wars, well, let's take America's last two wars.
We've pretty much lost the war in Afghanistan, even though, again, we are a hundred times stronger than the Taliban.
But we're fighting over there, not over here.
Second, they have a bigger stake in it.
They don't mind hanging out in the mountains for 30 years and then making a comeback.
It's much more difficult for us.
And over time, America lost its will to prosecute that war.
And we decided enough.
We don't need it.
Let's go home. And then I think about the Vietnam War.
Same situation. A distant war in somebody else's country.
We're the stronger power, but we don't necessarily have the same will to fight that they do.
Partly because there's less at stake.
Think about the American Revolution.
The British were much stronger.
They had far more troops than Washington did.
They could have beaten Washington, but they decided it wasn't worth it.
Let's remember that the British never fought Washington in the same way that they fought Napoleon.
Why?
Because they knew that Napoleon would have taken England itself.
That was never an issue in the case of America.
It was just a matter of do we keep the colony or do we let it go?
And at the end of the day, they decided, well, it's too much trouble.
These people are proving a little bit too difficult to deal with.
Let them go.
The Civil War, also, I think if we think about it, the South was in fact outnumbered.
And yes, most of the munitions, factories, and yes, most of the industry was in the North.
Shelby Foote, the prominent historian, he was featured in Ken Burns' famous documentary on the Civil War.
It says, you know, the North was fighting with one hand tied behind its back.
They were doing, you know, yacht races at Harvard and Princeton while the war was going on.
And if they needed to bring the other hand in, they could.
But I don't think wars are decided by military force alone.
They're decided, and here I'm just invoking the great theoretician Karl Clausewitz in his famous book On War, where he basically says that force is the size of the military times will.
The ultimate combination of the number of troops and the material that you can bring to the battle have to be multiplied by the psychological willingness to fight.
And that's the key ingredient here, because I think what the South was banking on is that the North would lose its nerve.
That at the end of the day, the North would be like, why are we sending people over to Savannah?
Why are we trying to take Chattanooga?
Let's let Virginia, let's those places go their way.
In fact, it was Horace Greeley, one of the Northern editors, who said, let our Erring sisters go.
So, bottom line of it is, you can never predict the outcome of a war in advance.
Why? Because at the end of the day, it's not simply a matter of who can summon the greater troops, the greater firepower, the greater shock and awe.
The other side may be able to take your shock and awe.
They might be willing to endure what to you might be an unimaginable amount of casualties, an unbelievable, unendurable amount of damage, and they still want to...
Come at you and they still want to fight.
And so even though you have the superior resources, you decide it's not worth it.
I'm going home. I'm giving up.
For this reason, I think as Americans, we should also remember that in a dangerous world for ourselves, for our own protection, for the protection of our allies, we need not just force, which by the way, for the most part we have, but something that we may not have in full supply, which is will.
The Biden administration is under pressure to do all kinds of things.
Student debt forgiveness, stimulus checks, unemployment benefits, a $2 trillion infrastructure plan.
And the question comes to mind, I don't even think they're thinking about it, who's really paying for all this?
Clearly these guys think they're playing with monopoly money.
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I'm very happy to welcome to the podcast a friend of mine, Dr. Kevin.
Kelly Ward, who is also the chairman of the Arizona GOP. There is a very important issue before us, Kelly, which is the Maricopa Now, as you know, the left has been saying since the election itself, most secure election in American history, no problems whatsoever.
The media has been behind this.
The digital media has been censoring people who say the opposite.
Yet I see today in Rasmussen a poll that says that 51% of Americans...
Believe that there was significant cheating in the 2020 election.
So the propaganda isn't going through.
But I think the significance, am I right in saying the significance of Maricopa is it's really the first official look to see on the ground what has actually been happening in the election.
Talk for a moment about the significance and why this is a big deal.
And also, how did Maricopa decide to do this?
Well, this is the first ever full forensic audit of an election in our country's history.
And that's why I call it America's audit.
That's why everyone should call it America's audit, because the Democrats are trying to put out propaganda saying this is a Republican audit.
This is the Republican Senate's audit.
This is the Republican Party's audit.
No. This is America's audit.
And it's funny because you say they claim that this is the most secure election that we've ever had.
But as soon as this audit began, the Democrats and the left and the progressives and the globalists sent 73 lawyers to Arizona to try to stop this process.
This process is brought on by the Arizona State Senate.
Our legislators are very strong.
They understand the power of the legislature.
They understand the power of the states.
They subpoenaed this information from Maricopa County and now we are trying to continue the pressure to force Maricopa County to deliver all of the information we need to get the answers that we want to restore election integrity and voter confidence.
Let's start by talking about the immediate sort of attempts to block the audit.
If you contact voters at their home address, this is a form of voter intimidation.
I mean, the election's over, but they seem to suggest, well, you're intimidating them for the next time around just by verifying that they live at that address.
So talk about, first of all, talk about what the Biden people are trying to do.
And then second, has this scared off to any degree the auditors or the Arizona legislature?
Right. Yes, you are exactly right.
So our Secretary of State, Katie Hobbs, tried to bring in the federal government, bring in the very politicized DOJ, the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice, into Arizona, which I think is unconstitutional, and probably you do too, because they have no place, number one, in our elections, but number two, in an audit of the elections.
There's just nowhere for them.
So they sent a letter stating that they were asking some questions based on news reports and complaints that they had received.
Now, the news reports in Arizona have also been the local news, basically complete fake news, trying to create...
Create the story rather than report the story.
So the DOJ sent a letter asking about two things, the security of the ballot and whether there was voter intimidation happening.
Now, neither of those things are happening.
The ballots are secure.
There are 19 armed guards that are on site every single day, along with 24-hour security cameras and nine cameras that are open to the public to watch this audit as it happens.
And there is no voter intimidation.
This is not an election.
This is an audit. And isn't it strange that they don't want us to know if not only do those people live at that address, but do those people exist at all?
Are they still living? I personally want to suppress the dead vote.
And I hope everybody out there wants to suppress the dead vote.
Now, we've also learned, and I see some of this in a letter that was written by the Arizona Senate president, that right away there has been a discovery of certain very disturbing irregularities.
Let's start going through those one by one.
Let's start by talking about passwords and routers.
Is it in fact the case that the Arizona, that the Maricopa County, the people running this election, did not in fact have the passwords themselves, that the only people who had the passwords were, I guess, the Dominion Company or the companies administering these machines, and that the election officials did not have them at all?
That is exactly. Well, that is what is claimed.
And so in the subpoena from the state Senate that was approved of by the Arizona courts, the information, the routers, the diagrams of the routers and the passwords were supposed to be provided to the company that has been hired by the Arizona Senate to do this audit.
So... During the court hearings, they didn't ever bring up that they didn't have the password.
They didn't ever bring up that they didn't plan to give the routers to the state senate.
That came weeks, if not months, after it was determined that this is an appropriate way to fix our elections.
So Maricopa County claims that they have only the initial password to get into the Dominion machines.
That the secondary password, so the second door that you need to be able to get in to certify and make sure that everything is up to par and that there wasn't any funny business, they claim they don't have that.
And as far as I know, right as of now, Dominion is not offering that up to the Arizona State Senate and the auditors to get inside those machines.
But hopefully we will. Is the Senate kind of determined to push the process to make sure they do have that access so they're not backing down on this, are they?
They are not backing down, which I'm very proud of them because you know politicians.
I know politicians. It's much easier to go retreat, hide, wait till the next election and go back into office.
These people, Senate President Karen Phan, the chairman of the judiciary, Warren Peterson, my own state senator, Sonny Borelli, they are out there, they are pushing, they are fighting, and they've all, as More information appears to be hidden from them.
And as more information is coming to light, they are even more determined to get this done.
Many of them have said that if there's a political hill to die on, it is this one.
This is the one because this is our republic.
This is what makes our country great is the faith in the election system.
So they're surging ahead.
When we come back, I want to talk to Kelly Ward about the implications of all this, also about allegedly missing databases, and also what happens if it turns out that Maricopa County did not vote as the results said that it did.
Wouldn't that tip the state of Arizona?
And what would that mean for the election in general?
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I'm back with Kelly Ward, the chairman of the Arizona GOP. We're talking about the Maricopa County election audit.
Kelly, is there any merit?
The sheriff, Paul Panzone, has put out this statement, in effect saying, we can't turn over this data to the Arizona legislature because it contains highly sensitive law enforcement information from First of all, what on earth does law enforcement information have to do with voter information?
Why are those two things allegedly being commingled?
What is this guy even up to?
Right. Well, Paul Penzone is the sheriff in Maricopa County.
He was supported by George Soros.
He is a leftist.
And the things that he's saying, I hope that he does get called to say them under oath, because I do think that there's some stretching of the truth there.
This is in regard to the routers and he and Maricopa County, the attorneys for Maricopa County are claiming that law enforcement data is stored on the routers, that social security numbers, also maybe sensitive medical information is stored on those routers as well.
And I had to look up about routers and I had to talk to a lot of tech experts to find out really the truth about this because routers are designed to be fast, to quickly move packets of information from one place to another.
Only a very novice IT person would store that kind of data on a router in general, let alone on a router that belongs to the elections part of the county.
The county has a very complex, very large database.
It's huge, and this information should not be on those routers.
And for me as a physician, I can tell you if medical information is stored there, then perhaps Maricopa County needs to self-report some HIPAA violations and And get that fixed because the election routers should be stored separately after the elections are over and they should be secured not being used in day-to-day operations of the county.
Now, in this letter that Arizona Senate President Karen Phan has sent, she refers to the fact that there was apparently a whole database, seemingly a significant one, illegally deleted after the subpoena was issued to produce this information.
Now, my question is, is that true?
Who deleted it and what's on that database?
Well, that's what we're trying to find out, Dinesh.
Exactly that. So Karen Phan, the Senate president, has invited the county to a meeting that's going to be live-streamed on May 18th at 1 p.m.
Pacific time, 1 p.m.
Arizona time, so that they can explain this because it's the election management system.
It's a database within that.
There is one large computer and then multiple client computers that...
Feed into that.
The client computers all reference the vote and tally database which is basically the vote and tally of the 2020 election.
However, that database is not found on the mainframe of the system.
We don't know who may have deleted it.
We don't know if there's a backup that is readily available from Maricopa County.
I was informed this morning that there is an outside entity that has access to that file, and that may be the only file that exists that includes that original voted, not voter, but voted database.
So there's a lot of questions.
I hope we get a lot of answers.
Now, we're waiting to know a lot of things, but let's just start with what we do know, and let's just start with the obstacles that we've seen in Maricopa and the problems with this audit.
Doesn't that, on the face of it, tell you that we need to have similar audits in Michigan, in Wisconsin, perhaps in Minnesota, certainly in Pennsylvania, that there's enough smoke to tell you that shenanigans were afoot.
And this needs at the very least to be looked at.
Whenever I keep hearing, this has all been looked at, I say, looked at by whom?
Looked at when? Looked at where?
Adjudicated exactly by whom?
On the merits. So isn't the significance of Maricopa enlarged by the fact that it's sending a message to other states that they need to look at their returns?
Yes, 100%. I mean, I think we should look at all of our counties in Arizona.
We only have 15 counties, but even the counties that went for President Trump, we should be looking at every single one of those.
And all of the states that you mentioned, as well as Georgia, as well as Nevada, maybe all 50 states need to be looking at their elections.
Certainly the states that utilize Dominion products for their elections, they need to be looking.
But with Maricopa County, there are so many things.
They're refusing to comply with the subpoena from the legislative body, the Arizona Senate, the way that they have stored the ballots and the way that the paper ballots, because in Arizona we do have paper ballots as a backup, and thank goodness we're able to look at them through this subpoena.
But those ballots were stored in Containers that have the seals broken already.
There are more listed as digital ballots than actually exist as paper ballots.
There are huge problems there.
And then all of the digital problems that we're seeing with the database deletions, etc., we've got to get to the bottom of it.
I hope we are the first domino to fall.
I'm glad we are the tip of the spear.
We've got fighters here.
Me as the chairman, but also we've got Andy Biggs and Paul Gosar on the federal side, and then we've got our state legislature who is staying strong.
And I hope that we shore up and empower other states to want to do the exact same thing that we're doing here in Arizona, in Maricopa County.
Let me follow a thought experiment, Kelly.
Let's just say that the Arizona audit reveals that Maricopa County, which is the county that delivered the state for Biden, tips to Trump, or subtracts enough invalid votes that Trump wins the state of Arizona.
What happens? Does Arizona then declare that Trump is the winner?
Follow the process out.
What happens if the audit reveals that Trump won Arizona?
Right. And remember, in Arizona, the margin is razor thin, 0.3%, just a little over 10,000 votes separating those two candidates.
So the likelihood of finding something is very, very high.
And I think that's why the Democrats are panicking, why they're in a frenzy.
So these are unprecedented times, but they're going to call for unprecedented solutions, in my opinion.
One potential is for the Republican Party of Arizona, because our electors will have been disenfranchised.
we will have been harmed is to take that to court, to say the true electors are not the ones that signed the paper originally, that we need to install ours.
We may have, I'm not sure that the legislature will have the power to do anything themselves other than to change law for future, but the certifying bodies, those counties, and even the Secretary of State could be forced to decertify what they previously certified.
Because, and President Trump has said this to me directly, if you go to Tiffany's and you steal the diamonds, and then you're found out that you stole them two weeks, two weeks from now, two years from now, 20 years from now, you still have to return the diamonds and you have to pay the price.
You have to pay the consequences.
So I think it's not known.
We can't have an illegitimate president that is seated.
It's bad for us internally in our country.
It's bad for us, obviously, with our enemies around the world and with our status around the world.
So this has to be corrected for 2020 and going forward into perpetuity.
Here's a statement by Trump just came out in which he talks about the fact that the media is trying to avoid covering this big story.
And he says they don't want people to see that what we've really had in America is, quote, a corrupt third world election.
And I think the significance of Maricopa County is it's one of the first steps in trying to show or to examine whether or not President Trump was or is right.
Hey, thanks, Kelly. I really appreciate your coming on the podcast.
Thanks, Dinesh. It's great to be with you.
Keep up the great work. Thank you.
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Are you worried about the midterm election next year in America?
I am. Why?
Because so much is riding on it.
There's this open question of whether the American people can look around and see the radicalism of the Biden agenda, the craziness of woke politics, and deliver the kind of sharp slap in the face politically, the message that they need to send.
Now, there's some very encouraging news that's been coming out of Britain.
I don't know if you've been paying attention, but essentially the Labour Party is getting destroyed in Britain.
In December of 2019, the Labour Party took its biggest beating, really since 1935, a kind of wipeout across the country.
But very recently, there were some regional races, very important races in Britain, and these were by and large occurring in working class suburbs outside of London, outside of a lot of Britain's industrial towns and cities.
And the Tories swept those elections in decisive numbers, notably in some traditional labor strongholds.
So labor, for example, has held the seat in Hartlepool since 1964.
This is like your classic Pittsburgh-style working-class town.
Labor would typically win 70% or 80% of Hartlepool, but in the recent election, the labor candidate got 28.7%.
And what this really means is that the working class, and by the way, the British don't hesitate to use terms like working class or even lower class.
The working class is essentially departing the Labour Party en masse.
Labour is ceasing to be the party of labour.
Who is it the party of then?
Well, it's the party of sort of PhDs and it's the party of the globalists in London and the financial sector.
So something very similar is happening in Britain as in America.
Now, under Tony Blair in the 1990s...
Blair was a guy who had worked his way up, gone to Oxford or Cambridge.
So he was essentially a working class kid who had made good.
So he was able, as actually Clinton was, to hold on to working class voters and at the same time pull in university graduates and people from the professional classes.
That was the key to Tony Blair's successful coalition, which lasted for a while.
But then Labour was taken over by a leftist, as we've seen happening with the Democratic Party here.
And this was German Corbyn.
And Corbyn basically decided to cast Labour's lot with the globalists.
With the leftists, with the race baiters, with all the people who said things like, don't call me a woman, I'm really a man.
I have got seven pronouns that I'm happy to supply to you on a piece of paper.
Use only those. And the British working class got freaked out and said, who are these kooks?
What planet do they live on?
The genius of...
The British Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, has made a powerful appeal to the working class on economic and cultural grounds both.
So, let's talk about the cultural appeal.
It's patriotism. It's the idea that the left is against British identity.
They think Britain is a form of oppression.
Britain was defined by colonialism.
Britain is an enemy of the climate because Britain pioneered the Industrial Revolution.
And most of these people whose basic amenities, their indoor plumbing and so on, are based on the Industrial Revolution.
They go, what? And on top of that, you've got, I mean, think about it.
You've got a relatively placid society that is being roiled by all this Sadiq Khan Islamic radicalism.
By the way, Sadiq Khan could barely hold on to his own seat in London, showing that even in London, London is basically like New York.
People speak a hundred different languages.
Even in what would seem to be the safest place, Labor is now threatened.
Now, all of this means, quite simply, that the Democrats in America need to, well, I'm not advising that they do, but if they looked across the pond, they would see reasons to really worry about what's happening in Britain and in the United States.
Some of the labor intellectuals in Britain are saying, oh no, you know what, we took a beating, but you know what, we can learn from Biden.
We might be able to figure out a way to assemble a Biden-style coalition in Britain.
But no, Biden is kind of the last of the Democrats who has some residual appeal to working-class America.
But do you think Kamala Harris does?
Do you think Ilhan Omar does?
No. Pelosi?
Are you kidding me?
The bottom line of it is that the Labour Party in Britain has nothing to learn from Biden.
The Biden people, if they were to look at the British example, would realize that something very big has occurred in Britain.
Something very big may be brewing in America.
And from my point of view, all I can say is, let's hope so.
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I've been talking in this podcast about the escalating clashes between Israel and the Palestinians, and it's got me thinking more broadly about the role of Israel, but the role of Judaism, and a phrase that we often use somewhat unthinkingly, the Judeo-Christian roots of America or of Western civilization.
And the question is, what is the relationship between Judeo and Christian?
Interestingly, for Christianity, that connection is very deep.
Judaism is, you may say, the rock on which Christianity is built.
The New Testament is inconceivable without the Old Testament.
Obviously, for Orthodox Jews, it's very different.
Christianity was seen as a kind of rebel or heretical movement within Judaism, and Christ is not really recognized as a Messiah or the Son of God or really even a prophet.
But for Christianity, you cannot think of the Christian faith without Judaism.
Interestingly, there are problems in Judaism and problems with the Old Testament that even Christian scholars have had to think about, but Jewish scholars have been thinking about for many centuries.
And I want to focus on one because I think it's so interesting.
It comes out of the book of Exodus, and it is the phrase, God hardened Pharaoh's heart.
We find that phrase appearing more than once in the book of Exodus.
The scene is like this.
God has been sending these plagues to Egypt to pressure, you might say, or as a message to the Pharaohs to let the Jewish people go.
And as the story goes, as it's laid out in the Old Testament, Pharaoh, once he takes the blows of the plagues, although he doesn't want to let the Jews go, he kind of changes his mind under pressure.
He goes, oh, these plagues are horrible.
I'll let them go. But the moment the plagues subside, he decides, oh, no, no, I'm not going to let them go.
And so initially, it seems, Pharaoh makes his own decision.
I don't want to let the Jews go.
But then it says that God decided to send more plagues, And then we get this phrase, very kind of troubling phrase, God hardened Pharaoh's heart.
So that even though the subsequent plagues were coming, Pharaoh was like, no, I'm not going to let the Jews go.
And of course, the problem here is this.
Doesn't... Doesn't the Pharaoh have free will?
Shouldn't he be deciding for himself if he wants to let the Jews go?
What is the meaning of God hardened his heart?
Did God make Pharaoh into a bad guy?
Does Pharaoh not deserve his fate because God imposed it on him?
Now, this has been a very interesting, not just philosophical, but theological problem.
Now, going all the way back to the 13th century, the Jewish scholar Nachmanides tackled this problem, and he offered kind of an ingenious interpretation.
Basically, what Nachmanides said is this.
He said, God did not take away Pharaoh's free will.
In fact, the reason God hardened Pharaoh's heart is so that Pharaoh's actual free will could be carried out.
This may seem like an odd thing to say, but this is what Nachmanides means.
He means Pharaoh never intended to let the Israelites go.
And that's why he refused to let them go.
And then as the plagues got more tormenting, Pharaoh was like, okay, okay, I've had enough, I'm going to let them go.
But he never meant to let them go.
He was doing it because he felt that the suffering was intense, but the moment his suffering subsided in the suffering of the Egyptians, Pharaoh was like, I'm not letting them go.
And what Nachmanides says is that, so what does God do?
God basically not only sends more plagues, but gives Pharaoh more ability to withstand the plagues.
Why? So that Pharaoh's original free will, which is, I have no intention of letting these Jews go, can be realized.
If the plagues overwhelm the Pharaoh and he's forced to let him go, then in a sense, Pharaoh's not exercising free will.
Pharaoh's just responding to the fact that he's under duress.
So this is Nachmanides' ingenious argument.
But there's a second argument which I think is even more profound and is a very good lesson to us for why God, quote, hardened Pharaoh's heart.
And this argument, as advanced by Jewish scholars and Christian scholars, goes something like this.
What does it mean to say that God hardened Pharaoh's heart?
What it really means is that when we make choices, and think of Pharaoh's early choices, the plagues come, he doesn't want to let the Israelites go, he hardens his heart, I'm not going to let him go, plagues get a little tough for him, so he goes, well, okay, I guess I'll let him go, but then there are more plagues.
Well, the point of the second line of interpretation is that when we make choices in life, those choices alter our personality or character.
What they do is make us into different people.
And so when it says that God hardened Pharaoh's heart, what it really means is that through his original choices and actions, Pharaoh became a hardened person.
Another way to put it is that, and I think we can see this wisdom in our ordinary lives, is our choices shape our character.
This is sometimes why habit is called second nature.
You have an original nature.
But your habit creates second nature which displaces that original nature.
And this is in some ways disheartening because it means that your...
You're your own fault.
If you're a miserable, lousy person, it's because you're the sum of lousy, miserable choices that you made.
But the good news that comes out of this is that if you're a miserable, lousy person and you want to be a better person, start making better choices.
In other words, you become the product of your own actions.
You want to be a more generous person?
Start doing more generous things.
You want to become a more friendly, affable person?
Every time you see someone, even if you don't know them, give them a nod.
Say hi. So, in other words, the idea here is that you have a role in shaping your own character.
We often think that we're the product of our genes plus our environment and think that both those are really deterministic.
Why? We don't control our genes.
We don't really control our environment, but we do control our own choices.
So to me, the encouraging message here is that we can alter our circumstances and we can alter who we are in the end by the choices we make.
The movie I released late last year, Trump Card, is prescient or prophetic not only in outlining the United States of socialism, the movement of the Biden administration towards socialism, but it also highlights a very strange alliance between the left in this country and radical Islam.
Think of how relevant that is to all the stuff going on in the world today.
And here's a short clip from the movie to give you a little feel of it.
Listen. What is the fundamentalist and jihadi agenda for America?
The future of America has to be Muslim.
What you're saying is that there is serious Middle Eastern and specifically radical Islamic intervention into U.S. politics.
Exactly. And I think it's more dangerous than the so-called Russian collusion.
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Let's go to today's question.
Listen. Hi, Dinesh.
I was hoping you could talk about the differences between republicanism and conservatism.
I was recently reading Philip Pettis' pieces on republicanism and realized there is a serious distinction between what freedom is and requires for a republican and what freedom is and requires for a conservative.
I was wondering if you could give some opinion on this distinction and how you would reconcile the two.
Thank you and God bless.
This is a very good question and at first I thought you were going to ask, you were asking about the differences between conservatism and being a member of the Republican Party.
But that is not what you mean at all.
You're talking about the philosophical difference, the principle difference between republicanism as a sort of way of thinking about government, classical republicanism you could say, and modern American conservatism.
So let me focus on that.
Let me start by talking about republicanism, classic republicanism.
Now, in general, republicanism is an expression of a liberal order, liberal in the classical sense.
And the word liberal comes from the Greek word liberalis, which basically means a free man, as opposed to, say, a slave.
And classical republicanism is about emphasizing freedom.
Now, In its most pure form, freedom is staying away from the government.
In other words, the main threat to freedom comes from the government.
When we think, for example, about economic freedom, civil liberty, or even the Bill of Rights, Congress shall make no law doing this, and Congress shall make no law doing that.
Now, interestingly, in recent years, Professor Philip Pettit of Princeton University has argued that that's a little bit of a We're good to go.
But also in the normal sphere of our lives.
There are other ways, in other words, that our freedom can be infringed.
He gives the example of in Ibsen's play, A Doll's House, you have a woman, Nora, who is free in the sense that nobody is stopping her from doing anything.
But she lives in a society, in a world where she's completely dominated by her husband.
She's completely constrained by society.
And so the forces of domination preventing her, you may say, from exercising her normal autonomy are around her, even though they're not coming, not even from the state.
And even her husband isn't forcing her to think this way or to do this or that.
But nevertheless, says Professor Pettit, she's not fair.
I think if I look today, I would cite digital censorship as a classic example of something that is not directly governmental, but preventing us nevertheless from exercising a basic freedom.
So, I agree with Professor Pettit to that extent.
Now, let's talk for a moment about modern American conservatism, which I think is related to all this, but is also slightly different.
Modern American conservatism is about conserving the principles of the American Revolution, which means...
Conserving freedom. Conserving freedom in the sort of classic sense.
But I would add a new element, and this is an element that Professor Pettit doesn't really touch on at all.
He doesn't make it part of republicanism, and that is the concern with virtue.
the concern with virtue at the individual level, at the level of the family, and also with civic virtue, which is the public virtues that we need in order to make a democratic and self-governing society flourish.
So modern American conservatism takes classical liberalism, but adds this ingredient, which is to say, we need decent citizens.
We need strong families.
We need the power and the influence of the churches.
Why? Because free citizens ultimately are responsible citizens.
If you had a society of sort of deeply depraved and immoral people, they could be completely free, but it would not be a good society.
So that, to my mind, is the real difference between republicanism in the sense that Professor Pettit means and...
What we can call today modern American conservatism.
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