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Feb. 15, 2024 - Doug Collins Podcast
39:08
What is Happening to Fani Willis' Case Against Donald Trump?
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You want to listen to a podcast?
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Georgia GOP Congressman Doug Collins.
How is it?
The greatest thing I have ever heard in my whole life.
I could not believe my ears.
In this house, wherever the rules are disregarded, chaos and mob rule.
It has been said today, where is bravery?
I'll tell you where bravery is found and courage is found.
It's found in this minority who has lived through the last year of nothing but rules being broken, people being put down, questions not being answered, and this majority say, be damned with anything else.
We're going to impeach and do whatever we want to do.
Why?
Because we won an election.
I guarantee you, one day you'll be back in the minority and it ain't gonna be that fun.
All right, folks.
Happy Valentine's Day.
It is Wednesday, February 14th.
I'm not Doug Collins, obviously.
I'm Chip Blake.
I'm guest hosting today on the Doug Collins podcast.
Doug is out of the country, and so I've got the privilege of hosting today's podcast.
We've got a good show today.
In just a minute...
We're going to take a break, and then when we come back, I'm going to introduce our guest, Kip Kiefer.
One of the things that we're going to talk about today, it's been a busy news week.
We had the Super Bowl on Sunday with a great game, overtime game, with the 49ers and the Chiefs and all the news that surrounded that with Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift and the wonderful halftime show with Usher and Alicia Keys and Ludacris and Little John and Jermaine with the 49ers and the Chiefs and all the news that surrounded that with Travis
We also had the impeachment of Alejandro Mayorkas yesterday, the House, after falling one vote short last week with Steve Scalise coming back.
They were able yesterday to successfully impeach Secretary Mayorkas.
And then yesterday, we had the special election in New York in the George Santos seat that Republicans lost.
And so, you know, a lot of those three stories have kind of been dominating, kind of the headlines have been dominating the headlines over the last couple days.
But there was a significant development On Monday in the Fulton County election interference case against Donald Trump and the subsequent ruling from that hearing on Monday, I promise you, will dominate headlines the next couple days and we'll talk about why.
So stick with us.
We're going to take a quick break and we'll dive into it when we get back.
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Okay, great.
Thanks, folks.
I want to introduce a special guest.
He's a good friend of mine.
And when I found out that I was going to be hosting the Doug Collins podcast today, I immediately thought about having my good friend Kip Keeper on, who I've been doing podcasts with for, gosh, over 10 years.
Now, Kip is the executive director of the Alabama Racing Commission.
He is the co-host of Of the morning after radio show on WJOX in Birmingham every Sunday morning during the college football season.
He is the author of the book.
If you haven't read it, you need to get it and read it.
What does George Clooney have that I don't have?
Award-winning author.
He is also the co-host of the Kiefer and Curry Show, a podcast on Tony Curry Radio.
And then his son, Case, is the assistant editor of the Las Vegas Sun.
And so, Kip, did I leave anything out?
No, that was a pretty good start.
I think you hit the most of the highlights.
It's, what does George Clooney have that I ain't got?
I ain't got, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Oh, that's okay.
You're not expected to be able to recite word for word the title, but that was a great experience, a lot of fun.
And that book is, of course, available, shameless plug warning here, available on Amazon or any platform where you find your great reads.
And it's a great read, so I would encourage everybody to get it.
Well, Kip, let's dive into it.
You know, I talked before the break about how busy of a Newsweek it's been this week, but it's about to get busier, and I can promise you that...
The hearing that is going to happen in Judge Scott McAfee's courtroom in Fulton County tomorrow and Friday, and I candidly, after looking at all that the court has to evaluate and all the witnesses that appear are going to be called for this hearing,
and just to let everybody know what that is, so Fannie Willis, who is the Fulton County District Attorney, who was the DA that indicted 19 individuals in August of last year, including President Trump.
And there are now 15 current defendants, Kip, in that case, as four people have pled.
But Fannie Willis' case seems to be unraveling as there are allegations of impropriety specific to The prosecutor, the special prosecutor that she hired, Nathan Wade,
who Michael Roman, one of the defendants in the case, Michael Roman's attorney, Ashley Merchant, about five, six weeks back, filed a motion to have Fannie Willis disqualified from the case because she's having a special relationship with the prosecutor who,
when you look at the prosecutor's When you look at the prosecutor's body of work as an attorney, it has absolutely zero qualifications.
Zero qualifications to handle a case like this and has been paid, as of the end of the year, $650,000.
To $650,000 to be a special prosecutor on this case.
And there's going to be a hearing tomorrow and Friday.
And the hearing is going to move forward.
And it is going to be televised nationally, I would suspect.
It's going to preempt all the news programming, I would imagine, on Fox and CNN and all that.
But, Kip, I know you followed what's been happening this week.
Give me your thoughts on this Fulton County case and where Fonnie Willis finds herself at that.
Well, I find myself kind of incredulous following all of this because on one of our shows that we've done here in Birmingham for a long time on News Talk with my partner Terry Quilligan, we used to have a slogan, you can't make this blank up.
And this case gets more twists and turns, more bizarre all the time.
It's kind of like a Lifetime movie playing out in front of our face.
A reality series that you could figure is being staged because the sensationalism of, first of all, the audacity of the case they're trying to bring...
Chip, this isn't just a typical case for a county prosecutor, even in a big metro area, bringing a racketeering and RICO case against people spread all over the country.
Like you said, originally with 19 defendants, these are charges that you lodge against an organized crime organization.
So this is complicated beyond all realm of comprehension, bringing this case.
And to bring in Nathan Wade, whose background is basically family law and personal injury type of background, to say he has no expertise or experience in these kind of matters is just a vast understatement.
And that's not taking away from his credentials or making any kind of commentary to his abilities.
Maybe he's another Clarence Darrow.
We don't know.
But the background is there's hardly any justification why Nathan Wade is tabbed for this assignment And then we find out that maybe we now know why she was chosen, because he might not just be a special prosecutor, he just might be a special guide, a fanny, who has brought him in.
They said in the court filings it was a special personal relationship.
Oh, there we go.
Yeah, so special personal.
Those are treasures, aren't they?
That's the legal term right now.
Okay.
Is that what we're calling that?
I don't know what Fannie's salary is, Chip.
You're more in tune with those kind of things.
But I suspect that she doesn't make anywhere near $650,000 a year as the Fulton County prosecutor, the DA for Fulton County.
So the amounts of money is ridiculous.
There is documented, of course, trips to Napa Valley and a long Caribbean cruise.
That Mr. Wade shelled out and Ms. Willis accompanied him.
I'm sure it was just to do prep work on this case.
The bottom line is this is a sordid, bizarre affair that's going on, and the Judge McAfee to go ahead and decide, no, we're going to hear all this, I think is a step definitely in the wrong direction for Ms. Willis.
Yeah, and I tell you, Judge McAfee said on Monday, and I'm going to read from Josh Meyer's article in the USA Today.
Josh has done a really good job of covering this case and wrote about it on Tuesday yesterday in usatoday.com.
But McAfee said, quote, you know, it remains to be proven that As to whether Willis derived any financial benefit from it, meaning the fees that were paid to Nathan Wade.
But he said, quote, so it's because I think it's possible that the facts alleged by the defendant could result in disqualification.
That's a big word.
You're not kidding.
Disqualification.
I think an evidentiary hearing must occur to establish the record on these core allegations.
And then at the end of the hearing, Kip, on Monday, he said, so just to emphasize, I think the issues at point here are whether a relationship existed Whether that relationship was romantic or non-romantic in nature, because I guess those are the two ways to characterize a relationship between the DA and the special prosecutor.
Whether it was romantic or non-romantic when it formed, and whether it continues.
I think it clearly is continuing.
And that's only relevant because it's in combination with the question of the existence and the extent of any personal benefit, any personal benefit conveyed as a result of that relationship.
I also think what he didn't say, but I think what he is also going to be evaluating at this hearing that starts tomorrow is, And he said, will last likely two days.
I think it might last longer than that.
I think it might last three days.
But I think you really have two issues here, Kip.
And that is, you know, not only was there a personal benefit, but did Nathan Wade or Fannie Willis lie to the court?
I mean, they lied to the court about when this relationship began because in the response filing from Ashley Merchant's motion, you know, they claimed that the relationship started after the appointment.
Nathan Wade as a special prosecutor in this case.
And Ashley Merchant believes she can call up to eight witnesses to prove that it started beforehand.
Which is a key thing, Chip, because if this was an ongoing situation, that really is confirming evidence that that's why Nathan Wade got this appointment, because he was already on board there.
Now, we have to throw in the, because I mentioned the Lifetime movie, of course, he's going through a very contentious and extremely hostile divorce proceeding right now with his ex-wife, Fonnie Willis, and he are, of course, he's going through a very contentious and extremely hostile divorce proceeding right now
And she has been brought on to give depositions and have information in that case, because, of course, their relationship is at the center of that controversy as well.
But you make a key point.
If this was already, and they can prove this was already an ongoing relationship, it's going to be very difficult for Fonnie Willis to...
Actually prove that that's not why Nathan Wade was selected.
Absolutely.
And just to give everybody to go through kind of a timeline of events, because that's what the judge is going to be looking at tomorrow.
You know, Fannie Willis opened this investigation in February of 2021. So, I mean, here we are February of 2024. I mean, she's three years into this investigation.
She didn't hire Nathan Wade until November of 2021. So Nathan Wade...
It has been on just over about two and a half years.
And the irony of that is Nathan Wade initiated divorce proceedings from his wife the day after.
Unbelievable.
That's some bad timing.
I mean, really bad timing on optics.
I mean, did they not think that this case was going to generate a tremendous amount of light?
I mean, come on.
It's just crazy.
Well, and there's expenses that have already come to light that are hard to justify.
We already know the bottom line number, about $650,000 already paid out to Mr. Wade.
But there was an interesting trip, and it's on the logbooks at the White House, that Mr. Wade went to Washington.
It sounds like a Jimmy Stewart movie.
Yeah.
And was supposedly behind closed doors with a lot of attorneys in Washington because, you know, Chip, people have to have some familiarity with our system.
You don't have county DAs bringing RICO racketeering cases typically, so...
My sense of that, the common sense factor is that Nathan Wade dispatched to Washington on Fulton County's dime for whatever lavish couple of days he spent, and I'm sure he stayed at the Motel 6 and kept the taxpayers' expenses under control, you know, ate at Burger King.
Of course.
But he billed 24 hours for a day and a half there, so are they telling us that he was hanging out with the White House attorneys and getting guidance on this case?
Because common sense dictates that's exactly what he was doing, because...
You know, all due respect to the Fulton County prosecuting staff and Nathan Wade, they have no expertise at all in these kind of cases.
So it really lends itself to this kind of stinks to high heaven that this was a coordinated effort.
And, you know, it's going to be hard for me to fathom that the judge isn't going to find a lot of improper behavior here.
Yeah, I mean, look, I'm not an attorney, but when I speak to attorneys and talk to them about this case, and specifically Fonnie Willis, I mean, to a person, they all say this, they all start to say this about Fonnie Willis.
She's smart and she's tough.
And then they always follow that up with, and because she's smart and she's tough, I am shocked that she put herself in a position that she has.
And I tell you, the Atlanta Journal Constitution is no fan of Donald Trump.
They are no fan of election interference controversies.
They are no fan of Republicans.
They are very much a progressive metropolitan newspaper, like most newspapers are today.
And Patricia Murphy, who is, I would say, left-leaning is probably an understatement, is both a reporter and a journalist for the AGC, wrote an op-ed a couple weeks ago, and the title of the op-ed is, What Was She Thinking?
And when you lose reporters and columnists like Patricia Murphy and the AJC in your case, you're in tons of trouble.
And Kip, the reason this is such a big, big deal, and the reason this hearing is going to be such a big deal, is not because it's likely the judge might throw this out.
The judge is not going to throw this case out.
But what Judge McAfee could decide is that either Fannie Willis, Or Nathan Wade might have to recuse themselves from this case.
And the reason that's so important is because for those people that believed that the court system, that were using the court system instead of the ballot box to take down Donald Trump, for those people believed that they were going to be successful in that endeavor, this was the case that they were looking at.
Because this case is not in federal court.
This is a state court case located in Fulton County, Georgia.
And therefore, Donald Trump, if he were to succeed and win the election in November against Joe Biden, he could not pardon himself.
That's correct.
It looks like it's just falling apart in front of our eyes.
Yeah, it does.
It's really interesting.
And what you just said, the fact that this is being litigated where it is, is an indication that that was part of the strategy.
And the irony is, and again, I try to stay as nonpartisan as I can in my observations, but what my eyes see and what my ears hear is how I form my opinions on things.
This looks like just another obstacle that's being erected to completely derail the Trump train, which is on a pretty good roll right now.
And the fact that this is a county prosecution, not a federal case, for just the reason you mentioned, is a lot more problematic for Trump than some of the federal cases are, where if he does Welcome to my
show!
But could she also have reached the point because, you know, something that does a lot of people in this position in is they develop kind of an arrogance that they're above all of the rules and regulations and procedures and codes of conduct that they reach a point in their career where they just think they're completely bulletproof.
And, you know, that's kind of what I, you know, when you see these kind of situations and major scandals happening, Menendez, the New Jersey senator right now, is another one that kind of comes to mind that you could say, how could he be so stupid?
But I think you reach a point where you just think you're invincible, that you're so much such a superior.
Hillary Clinton is the poster child for this.
So I think there might be some of those aspects woven into this.
Well, I think there has to be, because those same people that are telling me how smart she is...
And I believe...
I have no reason to believe he's not a tough and smart person, right?
And a smart attorney.
But to your point, you know, if she started this process...
Three years ago, she lives in Fulton County.
Fulton County is an overwhelmingly Democrat county.
She was the first district attorney in the country that started an investigation of this type, of this kind, the fake electors, You know, the election interference.
And, you know, she was helped a little bit by a recorded phone call that became public between the President and Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger.
And so she really, I think, kind of used that as an impetus.
So my guess is everywhere she's gone over the last three years, she just gets nothing from praise from progressives and Democrats.
And people that want to take down Donald Trump.
And I think you're right, Kip.
It just kind of got to her head.
Megan Kelly talked about this on her podcast yesterday.
And then she went ahead and posted about it on Twitter.
And it's a good summary of what we've all talked about that kind of puts it in English.
For those of us that aren't lawyers, I'm going to read a little bit of it here.
And then we'll kind of wrap up this discussion, talk a little bit about the Super Bowl, and then we'll wrap up.
Today's show, but this is from Megan Kelly's Twitter account.
She says, and this is just kind of a summary like we've been talking about, Kip.
So Fannie Willis and Nathan Wade argue that they should not be disqualified from prosecuting Donald Trump in Georgia because Fannie Willis never received any financial benefit as a result of hiring her lover, Wade.
Wade says in a sworn affidavit that expenses on their multiple lavish trips were, quote, roughly divided equally.
I mean, sometimes he paid, sometimes she did.
And as proof, he attaches a receipt for a pair of plane tickets.
She appears to have purchased Atlanta to Miami December 2022 to January 2023. That's one plane ticket, Kip.
That she allegedly bought for him for one trip.
From October of 22 to May of 23, so, you know, we're only talking, what, eight months?
They allegedly took five trips together.
That's 10.10.
And the defense alleges he paid for the cruise fees, hotel fees, etc.
So over seven months, they went to the Bahamas, they went to Aruba, they went to the Bahamas again on a cruise, they went to Belize, and they went to Napa.
And there's evidence that they divided the expenses roughly equally that she bought him one plane ticket.
That is information I have not heard, and that is remarkable.
I mean, look, and you're right, Kip.
I don't know exactly what the salary of the Fulton County DA is, but I can assure you it's not $650,000 a year.
Any DA will tell you.
That they serve as a district attorney as public service, number one.
And number two, maybe to put themselves in a position to make money after they leave the office of district attorney.
Nobody runs for DA thinking they can get rich.
Unless you hire a special prosecutor for a case and you're that significant other to the special prosecutor.
And the $650,000, Kip, that's just what the county has paid out, I believe, through November of last year.
So all the fees that have been racked up in December, January, and through the first two weeks of February, we don't have yet.
And I can imagine that they're continuing to rack up fees.
So tomorrow and Friday, Kip, is the evidentiary hearing.
And Ashley Merchant, who I don't know personally, But I know has a very good reputation as an attorney.
She's Michael Roman's attorney.
She's the one that started this with legal filings.
And when she did, I mean, when, you know, you got to remember, I mean, when you make a claim like that in a criminal case, much less a criminal case with this much exposure, you better have the goods.
Yes.
You better have the goods.
And she obviously had the goods with her first, you know, with her first filing and she claims she has it here.
So the country will get to see tomorrow and Friday exactly what that looks like.
And then we won't do this podcast again until Friday, but James and I will do the podcast on Friday.
And James and I will talk about hopefully a lot of what happens tomorrow and Friday.
But Kip, I'll give you the last word on what you think we're going to, on what you expect to see in Judge Scott McAfee's courtroom tomorrow and Friday.
It's going to be interesting.
I guess there's one kind of lingering unknown as to what witnesses we will hear from.
I think that's the real drama, Chip, is is Fannie Willis and Nathan Wade going to be compelled to To testify.
That's where it really would get dramatic.
If this was a Law& Order episode, that would probably be a given.
But we don't know who exactly we're going to hear from in this proceeding or how it's going to be run.
So to me, it's kind of must-see TV just from a fascination with this whole case unfolding.
And my final thought on it is...
Isn't it ironic that the leading candidate right now, polling-wise, in the country, Donald Trump, the former president, is facing all of these legal hurdles in cases that you can look at and really question the origins and the merits of them.
And it's being brought by a group that is claiming that He is the threat to democracy when they make every effort to keep him off the ballot so the American people don't have the opportunity to select their own leader.
I find that highly ironic and I'm very fascinated to see what happens moving forward.
Yeah, and one other thing before we kind of move on and talk about the Super Bowl is, you know, Trump teased on Monday, Trump teased the possibility that he might attend Thursday's hearing, but his attorney, Steve Sedow, who is a tremendous criminal defense attorney in Atlanta, if you ever...
Find yourself in any type of criminal liability in Georgia.
You want somebody like Steve Sadow representing you.
He's a tremendous attorney.
Steve Sadow confirmed yesterday that Donald Trump will be in court on Thursday, but it won't be in Fulton County.
It'll be in Manhattan.
Another case that is beyond bizarre.
Here is something to watch for.
My guess is motions will be made early on Thursday in the evidentiary hearing, and Judge McAfee will rule on those motions.
So I don't know how much testimony we'll get to tomorrow.
So if he rules that Fonnie Willis or Nathan Wade have to testify...
It's most likely that they will testify not on Thursday, but on Friday.
Steve Sadeau did not say that Donald Trump had to be in court in Manhattan on Friday.
So can you imagine the circus that would exist?
Oh my goodness, I can't.
Can you imagine what Atlanta traffic is going to be like on Friday?
Oh, no.
I'm just wondering if they're going to have a guy in a long red coat with a top hat outside the Fulton County, the ringmaster.
Ladies and gentlemen, direct your attention because this chip is the ultimate three-ring circus.
Oh, completely, completely, Kip.
Real quick, we've got about ten minutes left on today's show.
Kip, what a Super Bowl on Sunday.
Just crazy.
I know your son Case had a front row seat, being an assistant sports editor at the Las Vegas Sun.
Tell me your high-level thoughts on the eve of what was just a tremendous, tremendous Super Bowl.
Well, the NFL is the big winner in this game because the popularity of the league is surging now to levels that we just couldn't even imagine, especially with all the trauma that the league was undergoing, controversy of continuing with head injuries and all the adjustments that were made.
And a lot of people thought that the rule changes a couple of years ago were a little over the top where I mean, you couldn't even brush your index finger anywhere near the helmet of a quarterback without getting flagged 15 yards.
Of course, the snide comments, they're going to be wearing skirts and there's going to be no contact whatsoever.
But I think those fears have been allayed now and people have settled in.
Because I think the adjustments the league made for these violent helmet-to-helmet hits and other things that were causing a lot of problems for the league, I think they've done a very good job of addressing that, and I think we've adjusted to it.
Of course, also, you had all the controversy going on during that time of the Colin Kaepernick-led demonstrations and a lot of people that are...
You know, kind of real pro-USA and patriotic types said, I'll never watch the NFL again.
So it's emerged from those murky depths where the league's popularity for the first time in many decades was really in question.
And now all of a sudden we have this monumental event in Las Vegas, which Chip would have been inconceivable just a few years ago when you couldn't even make a bet in Las Vegas once the race Before the Raiders move,
but on any Las Vegas-based team, and the NFL, like baseball, was completely the giant elephant in the room was the gambling aspect of sports, but now the leagues have kind of come to the conclusion that this is a reality, we're going to embrace it, and it's really kind of...
Created a brand new era for professional sports.
And of course, you've got to mention, you mentioned it in your open, the Taylor Swift aspect, because 123 million people tuned in for this Super Bowl chip.
the largest telecast as far as viewers in the history of television, even passing the moon landing, which that, that was a pretty significant event, but Taylor Swift, she has that kind of power for the chiefs to get there, the chiefs to win the embrace on she has that kind of power for the chiefs to get there, the chiefs to win the embrace on the This has opened the door to a whole new group of fans that they never would ever conceive that they could have.
Things are rosy in the NFL, and I think you're going to start seeing a lot more international games, and my prediction is within four or five years, you're going to have an international division of NFL teams, and how they work all that's going to be interesting to see, but I think that's the next big step in the process.
This game's going global.
Yeah, I agree with that.
And look, we all knew TV was king and TV is money.
And you talk about 135 million people.
That's absurd!
It's crazy!
And look, I do a lot of political campaigns and help Herschel Walker's effort.
Unfortunately, Herschel didn't get across the finish line in Georgia.
There was a lot of media being bought, both social media, digital media, broadcast, cable media.
We were looking at a lot of stats.
I didn't make those media buys.
Obviously, people that do that for a living do.
One of the things we saw during that process, Kip, was that of the top last year, of the top 100 most-watched Yeah, 31 out of the top 33. I mean, that's astounding, Chip.
These are like regular season games.
These aren't playoff games or, you know, that's just the popularity of the NFL now.
It is just skyrocketing.
Yeah, completely.
Well, Kip, look, we've run out of time.
I've enjoyed hosting the Doug Collins podcast today.
I certainly appreciate you coming on and being a guest.
I'm going to give you an opportunity to give all the listeners your Twitter handle and where they can hear you on your podcast and your shows.
And again, Kip, I want to thank you for being on today.
Chip, it's my pleasure.
At Kip Kiefer Radio is my Twitter site, and you can get on there.
Also, we just wrapped up the season on local Birmingham radio.
You mentioned the morning after, which you are always a prominent feature annually to assess your alma mater, Auburn's chances and other SEC issues.
But we'll be back in July with the morning after.
And if you're in the Alabama area or you have access to YouTube, we've got a television program every Saturday morning now, the starting lineup stars myself and Tony Curry.
But we've got an outstanding cast of characters on that show, including my radio partner, Terry Quillian, also Case Kiefer from Las Vegas, who you've mentioned, who he's on top of the world right now in the mega capital of sports, all of a sudden, Las Vegas.
And the other member of our team, a lot of people, the very popular SEC football show, the Paul Feinbaum show.
We have the legend from that show who makes an appearance every week, and he's a rock star in his own right with the Tide forecast and his SEC rantings.
So we've got a great show, so check us out on the Kiefer& Curry Starting Lineup YouTube page, and you can catch our episode every week.
Well, Kip, thanks again for being on.
We appreciate everybody listening in.
Happy Valentine's Day, and it was a pleasure hosting the Doug Collins Podcast.
Tune in on Friday.
Doug will still be out on Friday, but James and I will be here, and we'll talk about Friday's Finest, everything going on.
We're going to talk...
We're going to look in the rearview mirror instead of in the front of the car and talk about, you know, what happens in Fulton County Court tomorrow, and then it'll be going on as we do the show on Friday, too.
But thanks, everybody, for joining.
We'll catch you on Friday on the Doug Collins Podcast.
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