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Oct. 26, 2022 - Doug Collins Podcast
32:55
Fighting the good Fight
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You want to listen to a podcast?
By who?
Georgia GOP Congressman Doug Collins.
How is it?
The greatest thing I have ever heard in my whole life.
I could not believe my ears.
In this house, wherever the rules are disregarded, chaos and mob rule.
It has been said today, where is bravery?
I'll tell you where bravery is found and courage is found.
It's found in this minority who has lived through the last year of nothing but rules being broken, people being put down, questions not being answered, and this majority say, be damned with anything else.
We're going to impeach and do whatever we want to do.
Why?
Because we won an election.
I guarantee you, one day you'll be back in the minority and it ain't gonna be that fun.
Hi, everybody.
It's Doug Collins.
Welcome back to the podcast.
I'm excited today to have a good friend of mine.
He is just one that I've grown to admire.
I got to know him years ago out in the eastern part of Colorado where if you ever go out there and he offers you a steak, be very careful about that because it could come in the form of a hamburger.
Ken Buck, a congressman, is just one of our solid stars up in Washington, D.C. right now.
I served with him on the Judiciary Committee.
We've been together on a lot of different things.
And Ken Buck joins me today.
Ken, thanks for being a part of the podcast.
Well, thank you, Doug.
And it was actually chopped steak, but it was still steak.
Well, it sort of goes back to saying, Kenny, you know, you travel a good bit with candidates, and I'll never forget going out.
The first year was Don Bacon's first year running in Omaha, and they sent me out there.
I was the vice chair of the conference.
They said, Doug, you need to stop by here on one of your stops, see if you can help him out.
He's military.
So I go out there, and I said, you know, Omaha, I can surely get a good stake there.
I said, after the thing, I'll go, and the young man from the NRCC, Who eventually worked for Don, said, I told him after one of the events, it was like 7.30 at night, I said, okay, just get me to a good place to eat.
I've got to fly out tomorrow, so just give me that.
I said, you've got to know some good place to have steak here.
And he's real quiet for a few minutes as he's driving me.
And all of a sudden he says, Congressman, I really don't know any good state place.
He said, how about Outback?
And I said, really?
I'm in Omaha and you're taking me to Outback Steakhouse?
Really?
Anyway, Don made up for it a couple of years later.
We went to a really nice one there.
But how's things in Colorado?
First off, Colorado's election, the Senate race is tightening up out there, which is a good thing.
What else are you seeing out in Colorado right now?
You know, Doug, Colorado has moved left dramatically in the last 20 years.
When I got here, we had a Republican governor, two Republican senators, both houses of the legislature were Republican.
I shouldn't say when I got here, but soon after.
We Republicans really were dominant in Colorado.
And we still had a balance in terms of what the legislature did.
But it changed.
It dramatically moved Democrat.
And what we're fighting for now is a statewide office.
We need to win either the U.S. Senate race, the governor's race, or Attorney General, Secretary of State, Treasurer, something to make sure Colorado has a Republican presence.
Cory Gardner was a great U.S. Senator.
I was fortunate enough to Take his house seat, but a great U.S. Senator.
And what I see in Colorado is I see a lot of common sense voters, especially in my rural district.
But I also see a lot of Californians who have moved in and have just reinforced the left-leaning nature of the state.
Right.
You're seeing what in Colorado, you're seeing a lot of what we see in some other states.
I was just in Illinois just the other day.
I've been in Seattle a couple weeks ago.
And what we're seeing is this idea that the bigger cities are dominating because of population growth.
Denver, Colorado Springs, Boulder, those areas.
And what kills me is they're leaving these other states because they don't like the stuff that's going on.
But yet when they get there, they're voting for the exact same thing that they left.
And the surrounding areas are not there.
Is that what you're seeing in Colorado, or is it just a move liberal to liberal?
No, I think exactly, Doug.
What we had last on the ballot two years ago was a tax cut and an increase in services, and Colorado voted for both of those.
Unbelievable.
You're going to reduce the tax burden on people, but you're going to increase the services that people get.
And there was just a disconnect.
Why can't we do that?
And so at some point, you know, right now there's COVID money in every state.
And so the federal government has just flushed money out of D.C. So no one's really feeling the pain of bad policy decisions.
But someday Colorado will feel that.
Well, and that's true.
And that's one of the things that was just brought up in Illinois.
I mean, they brought up, you know, they put down a tax credit, but yet they're covering their deficits in a lot of states, California, New York, Illinois, you know, will be Colorado.
They're covering some of that spending deficit with the COVID money, and the COVID money is going to be gone.
And I think that's going to make...
Now, redistricting Colorado, how did that affect...
Because, again, you get outside the cities, you got districts like yours and others.
Are y'all staying put?
Did y'all lose seats?
What's that like out there?
So I think most western states except California gained a seat or stayed even.
Colorado gained a seat and so they actually took away part of my district and it's really my family heritage area and so it hurt a little bit.
But I still have a strong district and the new district, the eighth congressional district in Colorado is a fairly even district.
I think it's a D plus three district, but with the tailwinds that we're getting right now, it's a very competitive race.
I think the Republican will win that race and we'll have a 4-4 split That'd be great.
Of course, y'all have the governor out there that you and I both served with, and you've had to live under his governorship, Jared Polis out there.
And I sort of know the answer to this, but for the podcast listener, did he get any better coming out of Congress and going to the governorship, or did he just get worse?
I think, in fairness to Governor Polis, in the first year or two, he was far more left than any governor in Colorado's history.
He basically shut down the oil and gas drilling in Colorado, which is huge in my district.
His husband is an animal rights activist, and he wanted to have a no meat day.
And so we had a meat out where everybody wasn't supposed to eat meat.
And of course, you couldn't count the number of barbecues that were going on around the state in protest of What the governor was trying to do.
But he handled COVID. And here's the problem with looking at governors in relation to how they handled COVID. He handled COVID better than New York, than Michigan, than some of those states.
Not as well as Florida, Texas, some of the Republican states.
But not being the worst on COVID really gave him a pass on some of the negative campaigning and negative ads that That we could have had here in Colorado, which was great.
He basically said, look, we've got a vaccine.
If people want to take it, they can take it.
If they don't, they do so at their own risk, and let's move on.
And that was popular.
Yeah, I can say that.
Well, it's interesting that, you know, the meat issue, the hunting issue, I mean, because Colorado has some of the best Hunting in the country with elk and everything else.
So I'm sure that didn't play very well.
And then of course, in your district, you have a lot of cattle, you have a lot of, you know, especially that kind of issues, you know, raising out there.
So yeah, I can see how that wouldn't play very well.
No, it went over like a lead balloon.
And I got to tell you, it really energized.
Because a lot of people in rural Colorado, rural America, feel like we're being attacked.
They're going after our gun rights.
They're going after various other issues that are important to us.
Energy being one of the top issues in Colorado.
People are disappointed about.
But as you said, the population is in the Denver metro area, and they don't feel the pain of losing jobs because the oil and gas companies are leaving to go to North Dakota and Texas and Wyoming and other states.
Well, let's move back to D.C. a little bit.
One of the things that you mentioned, it was interesting you should say that the winds, especially in that new 8th district out in Colorado, the overriding arch of wind that is blowing out of Washington, D.C., the Joe Biden administration, people are feeling this in their economy.
They're doing it.
Also, immigration.
I know you've spoken a lot about this.
And really now, anywhere I go, immigration is no longer a border issue.
It's just something everybody has to deal with.
How are y'all seeing it there in Colorado, and what are you expecting out of the Congress, especially with Mayorkas, who has just completely abdicated his responsibility?
Yeah, I think Mayorkas is just a national disgrace, and I don't know how else to put it in terms of respecting another human being, but he just has completely undermined the rule of law and undermined the purpose of having a border patrol and an immigration system in this country.
I think what you're going to see, one, I think we win the majority in the House.
I think it's pretty clear.
Most prognosticators are suggesting that we win up to 30 seats in the House and have a large majority.
I think what you're going to see is a lot of oversight with Mayorkas.
He might as well have his own parking space near the Rayburn building because he's going to be visiting a lot and having to explain what he's doing.
My guess is that he probably resigns Sometime in 2023, because the heat is just going to be too much for him in that area.
But what I see in Colorado, I see school districts that are anywhere from 20% to 40% monolingual Spanish speaking in K-5.
I see a criminal justice system that has warrants and failure to appear in court.
As a result of loosening the criminal justice system by the governor and the immigration system where people can just go out and get new IDs, move to another state, and continue to do their work.
I see a hospital system, a healthcare system that has trained As a result of illegal immigration.
So really, what's going on at the border affects every state in this country.
Maybe not Alaska and Hawaii so much, but every other state in this country.
And it's something that I think that we either deal with very quickly or we're going to have a generation of ramifications.
Well, and that's one of the things you're seeing, Kenny, and I think it's so important.
We don't typically, I mean, my administration, frankly, and again, I've talked about it a lot in different areas and everything else, that it's not just the fact that they're crossing the border.
It's not just the fact that they're going other places.
It's the secondary and third effects, if you would, of education, health care, you know, these kind of things that, you know, we're seeing and they affect rural districts like yours.
They affect, you know, the urban districts.
When do you think, and again, we go back to this idea, well, they're just letting them in.
It's intentional.
They're letting them in because eventually they want to make them voters and all this kind of stuff.
But I'm going to take it a different step, and you've seen this a little bit.
We're seeing in this election cycle, we saw it in the last election cycle, Hispanic voters who are eligible citizens to vote are voting more and more Republican because they're turned off by this.
At some point, do you think the Democrats will actually see what's happening here and come back to a moderation, or do you just see this continuing?
It's a great question.
I don't really understand the motivation for having an open border.
It really baffles me because the Democrats say they are the party of the working class, and the working class wages are being suppressed as a result of illegal immigrants coming in and taking jobs.
And creating a competition that drives down wages.
So at some point you would think the labor unions and the other constituent groups from the left would start to object and force an immigration system that works.
I'm not opposed to immigration.
You're not opposed to immigration.
We're opposed to Illegal immigration.
We're opposed to immigration where we don't put the country's interests first.
We just allow people to come in and try to figure it out later.
And so I think at some point the Democrats figure it out.
I don't know the answer to that question.
It baffles me why they have let this go on for so long.
But clearly there is a backlash among voters.
You know, when you look at polls, you hear about inflation and you hear about other issues.
Number one issue that I hear about from people is just the border.
And it's not so much the border as it is the fact that people are just upset that we aren't following the rule of law in this country.
Yeah, and I think that it is.
It's just this unsettling effect that you see, and then people are just frustrated by what's going on as we come.
Let's switch our attention a little bit, because you've been real big on this issue, and crime is a big issue.
Look, Criminal Justice Forum, you and I have talked about that a lot.
There's right ways to do things and wrong ways to do things.
And the liberals are just doing it wrong completely.
And especially what we're seeing, and you put out a bill, because it was interesting to me when San Francisco was going through their change on their DA and recalling him and everything else and the mayor, it was interesting to me that they didn't really care until all of a sudden Nordstrom's and Lord& Taylor and the bigger names all of a sudden started getting hit.
She didn't seem to care.
The mayor didn't seem to care.
And others out of the district attorneys didn't seem to care until it started affecting the higher end.
And that's just wrong.
Small businesses are the heartbeat of what we do.
You've just introduced a bipartisan bill on combating organized retail crime.
Tell us a little bit about that.
And I know it's bipartisan.
You got help in the Senate as well.
How is that coming along?
Well, Doug, again, as a result of your great leadership and the leaders that we have, and really the philosophy that we have in the Republican Party, we believe that there is a limit to what Republicans should do with federal power.
And so I was upset that we saw all of this retail crime going on around the country, but is it a state issue or is it a federal issue?
And I believe that some of the Retail crime that's going on is happening as a result of organized gangs that are multi-state.
And therefore, the federal government has jurisdiction.
And so I was interested in a bill that dealt with the multi-state aspect of this problem, leaving up to the states three individuals that run into a store, grab as much as they can, and leave.
That's a state crime.
It should be dealt with by the The city, the county, the state.
But insofar as we have retail crime where goods are being sold across state lines or where it's being organized across state lines, I thought it was important that the federal government did everything we can to support that effort.
Well, one of the things that I thought of is they were just trying to blame this on either poverty or just random acts.
And the problem is what you just pointed out.
These were not becoming random acts.
The gangs were actually doing this, and then you were seeing the products being sold on eBay or social media.
So it was definitely this organized element to it.
Don't you see this actually playing into what we're seeing in many of the voting patterns of this election cycle?
There are several areas that voters want to come into.
One, they want to be economically safe.
Number two, they want to be physically safe in their environments.
And we're not seeing that right now.
No, I think crime is a big issue.
It's a particularly big issue in the urban and suburban areas.
Frankly, if someone ran into a store in most of the towns in my district and tried to grab a bunch of property and leave, There would be some type of violence that would result.
And that's because store owners have a very small margin and they can't afford to see their livelihood go away like that.
And so what happens in the big cities doesn't happen in many parts of rural America.
Because there's just a different attitude and police respond more quickly.
And police, frankly, are going to use the force necessary to take down bandits and enforce the rule of law.
So I think that the suburban voters...
In Colorado, we've got this area around Denver, Jefferson County, Arapahoe County, Adams County.
And as those counties go, so go the statewide votes.
And those voters are fed up with having to drive into Denver.
They see, you know, a mile or two of homeless tents.
They see the crime.
They experience the crime.
The police are doing a great job in Denver, but their hands are tied behind their backs.
And people see that, and they're reacting to that in this election.
Yeah, I'm going to bring up a topic, and we've talked about this a little bit.
And I'd just love to hear your perspective, because you've been in, you know, You've been working with law enforcement out there and crime in Colorado for years.
Do you see any of this?
Because I think this is a conversation we're going to have to have.
I'm not sure Colorado did it right.
I'm not sure California did it right.
I'm not sure some would say.
But this issue of marijuana, this legalization that we're looking at, the homeless issue that you talked about, the others that we're seeing, did that...
I'm not sure how to put this.
Did it precipitate it?
Did it encourage it?
Or did the legalization, both recreational and medical, really have a difference in what you're seeing here?
Or is it actually something that is a problem?
It's a great question.
I don't have a great answer for you, Doug, because I don't think there has been the analysis and the gathering of statistics that's necessary to make that decision.
I went to Texas to go hunting with a group of folks, flew into Austin.
I saw a mile of homeless tents under bridges in Austin.
They don't have legalized recreational marijuana in Texas.
So I think that when folks relax standards, and in some places in Colorado, frankly, we don't have a homeless issue.
Colorado Springs, the mayor, John Southers, did a great job in terms of if you're a vagrant, if you don't have a place, we're going to give you a fine.
We're going to require you to go to a county jail unless you choose to go to this homeless shelter.
You get Uh, job skills.
You get, uh, uh, you know, medication if that's what you need, but we're not going to just let you live out in the streets and, uh, and really cause chaos.
And so I think it's a city by city issue in Colorado.
As to the issue of marijuana, um, I think that we are seeing an increase in juveniles using marijuana as a result of, of, uh, legalizing it recreationally.
They see their older brother who's 21 using it.
And so, uh, A 16-year-old goes ahead and uses it.
I think we see more traffic accidents involving marijuana, maybe alcohol and marijuana, but we see more of that.
So we see some of those issues.
I don't know that we see an overall degradation in terms of the motivation of most people to come to work and work hard.
Exactly.
Moving on to another issue that you have been on the front and center for, and I have to say I'm very proud of you for the stand that you were taking on this because it's a tough issue, and it deals with the antitrust, it deals with big tech, it deals with these, and you and I both dealt with that while we were there.
And I was glad to see that y'all pushed through some legislation that began that process of dealing with some of these issues.
And again, we don't have the perfect answer.
Some of the big tech, they have their answers.
But do you feel like that we, especially when it comes to antitrust, and we've talked about that a bunch on my podcast, that we've gotten away from the true understanding of antitrust, that we're sort of moving, you know, the Democrats is just simply big is bad.
And that's not what antitrust was about.
It's about the degradation in the marketplace.
Talk to us a little bit about that.
I know you got the bills passed out.
In this Congress, I'm not sure what will happen in the next Congress, but you did take a lot of stand on that, and it was good to see.
Doug, again, I look at your great leadership and you worked on a bill with Hakeem Jeffries and passed a bill because you may not have agreed on the motivation for getting that bill passed, but you both agreed that something needed to be done and this was the right answer.
And that's what we're doing in Congress right now on the antitrust issue.
We've got a lot of Democrats who, for their own reasons, object to these four, Apple, Amazon, Facebook, and Google, being so big and so powerful.
On the other side, we've got Republicans who believe in competition in the marketplace and want to see the antitrust laws used as they should be used.
And the combination makes for a bipartisan bill.
And frankly, Bicameral, because the Senate is debating the same bills, and they're improving the bills, and so we've got a strong set of bills that could move forward.
The idea, very simply, and my motivation, Doug, is these four companies control information.
94% of the searches that occur online are through Google.
When Google decides they want to put negative information up on Donald Trump and positive information up on Joe Biden, they can do that and they can influence the vote in this country.
Millions and millions of people they can influence in this country.
And that is scary for me, for our democracy.
We don't mind when MSNBC says something bad about a Republican because Fox News may say something good about a Republican.
There's competition in cable news.
There's competition with newspapers, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post.
There's not competition when it comes to searches or when it comes to social media like Facebook.
We need that competition.
And people own their search history, not Google.
They shouldn't be able to sell that advertising without you getting something for that.
So there's a lot of issues that come together here, and it's very complicated, but it's necessary to have competition in the marketplace.
Well, and I think that's, you know, again, that goes back to the old basic, you know, the antitrust was put there, you know, for companies that, you know, they may be big, but they're not, it's a consumer protection into that.
It was always there.
Is a consumer, you know, because sometimes the bigger, there is a consumer benefit to that.
Sometimes there's not.
That's where it bends in.
So, again, I know a lot of, I told you about, you know, before we got on, I had a lot of people, you know, text me about it because it had been something we had worked on while up there, but it was good to see that something, you know, was moving.
That brings me to an interesting point, Ken, as we're talking about the new Congress, which I agree with you.
I've been saying for about six months, 225 to 235. I've now upped that to maybe 240 if you get another five, depending on how the seats flop.
But you and I have both been there when we sort of had those same majorities.
And getting stuff done is always a difficulty.
What do you see coming up in the next few months with the new majority, with leadership?
Do you sense any difference?
Do you sense some good stuff coming?
Where do you feel right now?
Well, Doug, I think the first question is going to be answered on the evening of November 8th.
How big is the majority?
If we have a large majority, I think Kevin McCarthy is speaker, and I think that we have an agenda that he has set, and I think we'll move forward on that agenda.
The other issue that's going to be settled on the evening of November 8th is do we have control of the Senate or not?
And if we control the Senate, and I say control, if we have a majority in the Senate, there's a chance that bills will get passed in the House and be considered in the Senate.
We definitely won't have 60 votes in the Senate, but we may have 51 votes.
And be able to control the chairmanships and the agenda in the Senate.
And so those two things, I think, are really important.
We can do oversight in the House, but we can't pass legislation without the Senate.
And then, of course, we've got President Biden in the White House, and we've got to get President Biden or someone to tell President Biden what to sign and what not to sign.
There are a number of factors that go into what kind of legislation is going to be passed in the next two years.
What we need to do is to make sure the American people understand the stark contrast between conservative leadership and liberal leadership so that we get a Republican president in 2024, starting in 2025, and we get a Republican House and Senate, then we can really get legislation passed and move forward.
Well, Ken, I'm so glad you said that because I speak across the country still going and helping out candidates and stuff.
And one of the things that I get hit with all the time is, you know, is there any difference?
And I go back to say, look, folks, we've got to have candidates and you just spoke truth.
You know, there's only so much you can do with a House if you don't have the Senate.
There's only so much you can do if you have the House and the Senate, but not the presidency.
And I think we've not done a good job of that in the past.
I think we've over...
And I still hear some of our members say, we ought to do what we promised.
Well, are you promising things that you can actually do?
And I think that's another issue.
I'm glad to hear.
Do you think that's a sentiment of folks coming in?
Or because of the way we were treated two years ago, now y'all been treated for four years.
Is there a sense of frustration on getting back at the Democrats and the Biden administration?
How do you balance the two, Ken?
Doug, I think the key is to have leadership.
You know, leaders have to understand that retribution is going to start a cycle that doesn't make sense.
One of your fellow in-state legislators, Marjorie Taylor Greene, was Uh, penalized for things that she said before she got to Congress.
Never happened before in the history of Congress.
When the January 6th Commission was formed, Republicans chose our five individuals for that committee, and Nancy Pelosi refused to seat two of those individuals.
That's never happened in the history of Congress.
So Nancy Pelosi has done some things that have really hurt the institution.
I think our job is to bring back the credibility of the institution, not to bring it a step lower and have a tit for tat in this next Congress.
Well, I think that's the thing.
Look, you and I both lived through this, and I wrote a book.
You made the book because you were such a great part of this sham impeachment that we had to defend and going about it.
In fact, you interviewed me for a C-SPAN, which is still one of my favorite interviews I've ever done.
It was just good sitting down with you.
But I saw, and I'm glad to hear, like I said, you saying that, because you've got to have the oversight.
You've got to push back.
You've got to, you know, and I said this the other night, I said this breaking of rules has to stop.
I mean, you've got to get back to the point of you do it properly.
And the Democrats just broke every rule.
You know, because they had an agenda that they wanted, you know, to push.
And, you know, look, I mean, I think this is the important part of the oversight piece, but also getting stuff done, because you witnessed it as well as I do.
In 2019 in particular, and into 2020, but 2019, Democrats had no agenda for governing.
All they wanted to do was lash out at Donald Trump.
And I think that hurt them where they're at right now.
Absolutely.
And I'll tell you, one of the things that they have done, and it's coming back to Biden with inflation, but also just with a lack of credibility, is this idea that you can buy votes.
This student loan forgiveness is just so transparent.
That they want young people to go vote.
And America is reacting to that.
And they're reacting to it in the supermarket and in the voting booth.
But you're right.
When the Democrats say, we don't really stand for anything, we just stand against President Trump.
That has no meaning for Americans' everyday lives.
How are you helping me at the gas pump?
How are you helping me find a better job?
And so the Democrats have been hurt, I think, dramatically as a result of that.
We have to stand not just against President Biden.
We have to stand for policies like less federal spending, enforcing the rule of law, having a strong defense.
Those are all things Americans agree with.
And Americans will support if we show them that those are Republican values.
That's exactly right.
Folks, I'm often asking when I'm out traveling or on the show, you know, are you confident that you got good leadership in Washington, D.C. that can actually do some of the things conservatives want to do?
All I got to do is point to somebody like Ken Buck and say, yes, we have good leadership up there that can do that.
Ken, thanks for being a part of the podcast.
We'll get you back on again.
We'll continue this conversation because, again, it's always good to see somebody who has a thoughtful approach to being in Congress, but also willingness to express it as well.
So, Ken, thanks for being a part of the show today.
Thank you, Doug.
And if you ever get back to Northern Colorado to campaign from me, I'll buy you a real steak rather than a chopped steak.
So look forward to it.
You let me know and I'll be there.
We'll definitely do that.
We'll definitely do that.
All right, folks.
We'll see you again on the Doug Collins Podcast.
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They come with a 10-year warranty, 60-day money-back guarantee.
Don't miss out on this incredible offer.
There's a limited supply, so be sure to order now.
800-986-3994.
Use the promo code Collins, C-O-L-L-I-N-S. Or you can go to MyPillow.com, click on the radio listener square and use the promo code Collins, C-O-L-L-I-N-S. Lisa and I sleep on these sheets every night.
You will want to have them as well.
They're a wonderful product.
Go right now, either 800-986-3994, code word Collins, or go to MyPillow.com.
Also use the code word Collins to get this discount.
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