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April 22, 2022 - Doug Collins Podcast
58:46
ARE YOU READY? An in Depth look at the 2022 NFL draft with Coach Chan Gailey
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You want to listen to a podcast?
By who?
Georgia GOP Congressman Doug Collins.
How is it?
The greatest thing I have ever heard in my whole life.
I could not believe my ears.
In this house, wherever the rules are disregarded, chaos and mob rule.
It has been said today, where is bravery?
I'll tell you where bravery is found and courage is found.
It's found in this minority who has lived through the last year of nothing but rules being broken, people being put down, questions not being answered, and this majority say, be damned with anything else.
We're going to impeach and do whatever we want to do.
Why?
Because we won an election.
I guarantee you, one day you'll be back in the minority and it ain't gonna be that fun.
Come on, everybody.
Great day to be here on the Doug Collins Show.
We're excited to have you on the Doug Collins Podcast.
This is a special episode, and it's coming with a great friend of ours, Chan Gailey, former head coach at Georgia Tech, Dallas, Buffalo.
I've been coaching for years.
This is a time when we get into the draft season.
Everybody's looking at it.
We've got NFL draft this week.
Coming up next week.
And so we're giving you a preview today of what this draft is going to look like, but I wanted to do it a little bit differently.
Chan and I, Coach Gaylor, and I have been talking a lot over the last year about football and life and how it all relates.
But getting into the specifics now of the draft, I think it's going to be really interesting as we take a look at some of the mechanics behind the scenes.
We always see, you know, We're good to go.
You're thinking about this and saying you're making millions of dollars decisions based on 20-year-olds.
So it's going to be a good time.
So, Chan, welcome to the podcast.
We're glad to have you.
Thank you, Doug.
It's always great to be with you, especially this time of year.
It's fun time.
It is good.
It is.
Well, one of the things, though, before we get into it, though, you and I have mentioned an individual, and he passed away recently, a couple months ago.
Dear friend of yours, someone that I looked up to because he coached the Falcons and a Washington friend of mine, his name was Dan Reeves.
Dan had a large impact on your coaching career as well.
I want to just start a little bit, because I think mentors and friends matter in this world.
I think we don't talk about it enough.
Talk about how Dan Reeves impacted you in football.
Well, we talk about him being a mentor, Doug, but probably people don't know, we're from the same hometown, so he coached us in Little League.
He was the guy that came back from college and went out and coached us summer baseball and stuff like that.
I mean, the town of Americas would shut down when the Cowboys would play when I was in high school.
So that's the kind of guy Dan was to me growing up.
And then He was kind enough to give me my first job in the NFL at the Denver Broncos.
I went in coaching the special teams.
I didn't know anything about special teams, but he trusted me.
And I learned right then and there that trust is a huge thing in the NFL. You need to have people that you trust on your staff.
I learned so much from him about organization, about how to implement offense, defense, how to change thought processes of teams, how to organize practice, things like that that were so foreign to me, not having played in the NFL. It was It was an unbelievable experience, and he was a great Christian man.
So I got to be around a great Christian man who was a great coach and learned from him in my first NFL job, and it was such a blessing.
And he coached, I mean, just, you know, amazing talent over the years as well.
I mean, they're in Denver and then the Falcons later and others.
But, you know, the one thing you said is sort of interesting to me is the head coach setting the tone.
And I think this sort of sets up very well.
And Dan Rees is one that, you know, people need.
I think more coaches should look at his style and how he did that.
He was never the most flashiest out front, but he got the job done.
And as we come into a time like this, you talked about learning how to set up practices and other things, you know, of the mechanics of football.
But Dan also took the time you said to trust.
Is that becoming such a...
I mean, is that one of the issues that we're seeing now, Coach, with teams and NFLs where your owners, the interplay between coaches, coaches, staff, owners, is not what it used to be where you had that central dominant sort of head coach figure?
Well, unfortunately...
Coaching right now is no different than society.
It's a me society.
You know, what's in it for me, what's good for me.
So everybody's trying to protect their entity.
And you have, from when I started in the mid-80s to now, I see a bigger disparity between the trust level, between Front office and coaching staff and ownership and front office and coaching staff.
It's just become more divided rather than becoming more together.
And really, right now, the people that have the most patience are the Steelers.
And through the years, it's proven out.
They've got patience, they've got trust, they find the guy they believe in, and they go with him, and they don't bail at the first sign of adversity.
And so it's been, it was fun to be a part of their organization for the four years I was there.
And to see them because they, to me, they are really unique right now.
Well, and speaking of that, I mean, like I said, I think all of this sort of leads into this discussion of draft and what we're going to see because, I mean, it affects so many things.
It has become...
Even more than it was.
And I don't know, we're not ever going to divorce the business side of this game.
It's always there.
It's always been there.
But when you're looking at, you know, we mentioned the Denver Broncos where you coached and others.
I mean, they're on the market now for $3.5 to $4 billion.
And it looks like one of the Walton brothers is looking at buying.
Yeah.
Does that kind of...
And I think that's a sort of self-historical question, but I want to expand on it a little bit.
That causes this to become more of a commodity item business than it does what you talked about with the Steelers who've had long-term ownership with the Ronis and others for years that is now when you're making that kind of a purchase, you're looking for a return on that investment.
Oh, very much so.
And...
They're just trying to make sure that the brand, the owners want to make sure that the brand continues to grow.
That's why you see them trying to stretch internationally so much.
They want the brand to grow.
And if the brand grows, then their investment grows.
And so that's the...
That's the issue we have there.
Some of them are interested in the bottom line.
Some of them kind of don't care about the bottom line.
I'm talking about dollar bottom line.
Some of them, they're in it to see it grow over time, and then they'll sell it somewhere down the line.
But Some of them, they're trying to keep their head above water.
The Cincinnati's, it's a small run corporation, basically.
And so they're looking at the bottom line every year.
Well, and I think this is one of the things that is interesting is the disparities of brands and sizes.
Of course, Cincinnati made it to the Super Bowl this year.
And looking at that, the question that comes in that, as we look toward the draft, because this is becoming more and more important, I'd love to hear from a head coach perspective, Your owner-head coach relationship, general manager-head coach relationship is important.
Recently, there was an article, and I think it speaks to this idea that there are some owners that, frankly, you're not sure sort of the position they're in.
You know, is it a prestige issue?
Is it an investment issue?
And there was an article recently talking about another premier football team that has just went downhill in the last few years.
It was the Washington, what we knew as the Redskins, the Commanders, whatever they are now.
But the environment of Dan Snyder.
And it's sort of interesting now, how many reporters are now reporting on the owners almost as much as they report on the coaches and the team?
Yeah, and that's what happens.
It's the old saying, Doug, follow the money.
We've heard that in politics, and you hear that in every line of business.
But you follow the money, and people in our society today, if you are successful, if you are profitable, they want to find...
Nobody fights to get up to the top guy as much anymore.
As they want to bring the top guy down to their own level.
You know, we're trying to tear down the top people rather than everybody fighting to get up to the top.
And so all those guys that are at the top, there's only 32 owners in the world of NFL teams.
So there's going to be people that are looking to try to bring them down and try to figure out ways to get at them and discredit them and And figure out ways to make them out like Joe Blow.
Exactly.
Just as you were talking about that, I could just imagine, because you've become familiar with some of the owners.
To me, putting all 32 owners or owner's representative, if you would, in a room, I'm not sure they can hold the egos in that.
Yeah, well, and that's why whatever we play Goodell, it's worth it.
Because to hold that 32 people together And to create some kind of consensus in a room like that with those very strong, very successful people is a difficult thing.
And it's tough.
It's tough.
And you met as a head coach.
The head coach, GM, and owner met in a meeting once a year every year in March.
You all sat in one big room, and you had a big meeting about the state of the union of the NFL. And it was an interesting meeting, to say the least.
I bet it was like everything else.
You had about 10% of the owners would dominate 90% of the conversation a lot of times in that one.
Very much so.
But I thought that most of them listened pretty good because they...
Some of it was about rules, so they would listen to the coaches on the rules.
They did their own thing kind of over to the side when it got into marketing and And how to run the business and things like that.
I'm sure that was a lot more animated meeting during those times.
I mean, to see a Robert Kraft, to see a Dan Snyder, you know, to see, you know, these just big person, Arthur Blank, I mean, these big name personalities in a room.
Would be pretty funny.
But this leads us into really where we're at now, and that is the draft.
And this is the, you know, outside of the Super Bowl and the draft has become its own entity unto itself.
It has become the NFL. You talk about Goodell, and I think everybody will, you know, there's different strokes back and forth on how he handles different things.
But again, keeping it in the playing field of what he has probably has done about as good a job as any in that fact.
You know, we can always, you know, disagree.
And I can understand that.
But when it comes, he has taken, and even early before him, has taken the draft to another level in the sense that it has become its own event.
So from a coach's perspective, a head coach's perspective, let's just say you've been at a place like you were at Dallas or at Buffalo.
You've been there a couple of years.
Your draft day is not a one-day occurrence, is it?
It's something that y'all are always working on.
Oh, gosh.
The amount of work that goes into the draft...
Prior to the draft, because you would start about two and a half to three weeks before the draft.
Now, all these visits that these players are taking, we didn't have those back when I was head coach at Dallas and places like that.
You'd have a couple, but you wouldn't have the top 20 or whatever it is come in, top 10 come in and visit your facility right before the draft because today they want a last minute update is what they want.
But somewhere between two and three weeks before the draft, you went into meetings and you went through the offense first or the defense first or special teams and you went through your top 10 linebackers, 15 linebackers, top 10 to 15 defensive tackles, top 15 to 20 edge rushers because they're so hard to find.
Your top 20, 25 corners because they're so hard to find.
Your top 10, 15 safeties.
That's how you went through it, position by position, ranking them, giving them a grade, and then Once you put a grade on them, then you put it on the board and you lined it up.
And then about four days before hand, then you start going, okay, what if?
Do we think this guy really belongs here?
For our need of our team, we got a 3.1 on this guy and a 3.2 on that guy, but we need the 3.1 position.
Do we give him a 3.2 or a 3.25 to put him ahead of that other guy?
So there's a lot of manipulation that goes on.
Now, most owners are not in there for this.
They're not in there for that.
They're there for when the TV cameras are there on, you know, on draft day.
They're not.
Now, Jerry was.
I was at Dallas with Jerry Jones, and Jerry's the GM, so Jerry was in every one of these meetings, which was interesting in itself.
I can imagine.
Let's think about this.
Out of your coaching staff, and, you know, we always talk about the coaching staff and being, you know, the failures, you know, the office coordinator, defense coordinator, the special teams, those guys.
How much of your staff also, though, in the front office or back office, however you want to put it, was devoted to talent recruitment, you know, looking at, you know, the college kids from the minute they walked on a college campus to the draft day.
How many people were in the sort of the back rooms?
That's what they focused on.
Well, what you have is you have information gatherers.
Those are the scouts.
They go out, they get all the background information, they get all the height, weight, speed, interviews with the player.
They get interviews with the trainer, interviews with the nutritionist, interviews with the equipment guy.
They find a ball boy and talk to him about these guys.
Because like you said at the beginning of the show, this is a multi-million dollar investment you are making.
So you're trying to find out every bit of information that you can possibly find out to see if this guy is...
What's going to be what you need to invest your money in?
And can he handle it?
Can he handle that?
But then you had...
The coaches and the top – then you had some top scouts that were great evaluators.
And they would give it a grade.
The coach would give them a grade.
And then you'd go in there and the GM and the head coach would sit down, listen to all the information being given, and try to put a grade on that guy.
And the challenge, really, Doug, during that whole time – If you've got a really strong offensive line coach that you know he's going to jump on the table and pound the table, this guy's a great guy.
We've got to have him.
You've got to make sure you don't listen to the best arguer and listen to the information, you know, because the personalities can play into it.
If you have a guy that's not as loud, That's coaching wide receivers, and he's a little more critical of players.
He might grade them lower, and you have to learn that.
You have to play with that.
Exactly.
Well, let's do something.
And this is, for our podcast listeners, I'm going to hit Coach Cole here a little bit, but I think he'll catch up pretty quick.
Let's talk about it, because you brought it up, and I had written it down here that I wanted to talk about it, but you've made it out perfectly as to how people, you start this evaluation process and how you look at it.
I'm going to use some examples from this year's draft.
I mean, there's been a lot of questions about how you evaluate talent.
You've got Hutchinson, and we're talking about edge rushers, D-line.
Edge rushers.
Hutchinson, out of Michigan, got a lot of hype because of Michigan's real, how they did.
He had a great game against Ohio State.
But it's statistics solid, but not overwhelming when you compare them to, say, a Will Anderson, who was still a sophomore at Alabama, or a freshman who's not in the draft at this point, who had far better numbers but didn't even get considered, even like in the Heisman race, which his numbers were better.
But then in the actual draft, you have a Jordan Davis or a Trayvon Walker out of Georgia.
Where does it come down to a team when you're looking at a Hutchinson, a Walker, or a Davis?
All three, you know, classified as superstars, especially Walkers.
His has really risen here in the last little bit.
What's the determination?
Is it from those information gatherers?
Is it then go into a function?
Sort of take us behind the scenes if you're a coach right now looking at a D-line.
Well, if you look at those guys, the first thing you evaluate is talent and production.
So you're looking at their production this year.
You're looking at their talent level, where they are right now.
And then you always hear this term, what's the upside?
You know, like you look at Aiden Hutchinson and you know exactly what you're going to get.
And you're going to get that for X number of years in your mind.
And that's really good.
He's not going to go way down.
He's not probably going to go way up in the type of player that he is.
You take Trayvon Walker, now his upside is pretty good because of the potential that he has as he continues to grow and gain experience because Hutchinson was a senior and all that.
So, Those kind of things start to play into it, and you're saying, okay, are you trying, and this comes down to the drafter, the person that makes the decision.
Are you drafting for the home run?
Are you drafting for the guy that's going to hit you 45 doubles and hit for high average?
You know, are you looking for the home run here that may strike out and you may be left holding the bag?
But I found through the years you don't have to hit the home run with a first-round draft pick, but you can't have a bust.
And I've been around both.
I've been around the home run, and I've been around the bust.
And the bust kills your football team.
It does.
Well, and the importance of the draft, and I think you mentioned there about the production, at a certain point in time, let's just say that you're looking, and because I think you could probably make a case that Walker has a great upside, Hutchinson has a great midterm, but they both have probably long-term value if they come in.
And if, again, it's a big if.
We're talking about 20-year-olds.
If they come in and perform.
What's the determining factor after production and after?
Is this where it gets into how they met with their teammates?
Is this where you start getting into the intangibles?
We talk about maturity level.
That's the term that's used a lot.
Maturity level.
And that encompasses everything that you just said.
Do we think this guy's going to be able to manage money?
Do we think this guy's going to be able to handle the press because he's going to be a top-round draft choice?
Can he stand up there and vocalize?
Was he a leader on his team or was he one of the followers?
So are we going to invest a first-round draft choice on a guy that may not be a leader at all?
For us on our football team.
So those kind of things, the maturity level is the next big thing that you talk about.
Okay, let's take this out.
We've talked defensive line, O-line, you've got your defensive back.
With that maturity level, and I hate this term, but I hear it used a lot, when you get into quarterbacks, they talk about, and I'm sure you probably give it to other players as well, the intelligence test, whatever that test is, you hear that all the players use.
Is that maturity level Heightened, say, a quarterback position as opposed to a line, even if they were both number one picks in the draft.
No, maturity level encompasses all of that, the mental part as well.
But in today's game, if a quarterback has a low test score, that needs to open your eyes a little bit.
Not saying anything about any other position, but the quarterback has so much on his plate in the NFL that if he can't figure things out, if he's not smart enough, he is really going to struggle in the NFL. And so that...
That takes on a bigger part of it at quarterback than it does at the other positions.
And I think most people would understand it.
The looking at the draft day, one of the things is, and you being in, you're out now, of course, but there are certain teams that you always have had the feeling that they draft well, okay?
And it just seems over time they draft well.
You have certain teams, and I'm- It's nine o'clock.
In my job, it is an understanding that I look at it from just my perspective.
Atlanta has been a team that has never drafted well.
I mean, granted, they've gotten some good ones.
Don't get me wrong.
But over time, I think people look at it.
James is my producer here for the podcast, and we love talking football.
James is Minnesota.
Minnesota, frankly, is one that has had a lot of issues, it seems like, in the draft.
San Diego, there's other...
What makes, from your perspective, what makes a good draft team, like I would say a Pittsburgh is a good draft team.
I think you get some other teams that are out there that are better at the draft.
New England, in the free agency and draft market, I think is excellent.
What is the determinant?
Is it an owner-coach relationship?
Is it a continuity issue?
Or is it just, you know, the jinx of that team, so to speak?
Well, I think the jinx of the team can go out the door because there are a lot of people in decision-making positions in football, just like they are in every other business.
That are not very good decision makers.
They're not very good evaluators.
They see the small picture but they don't see the big picture.
And that was the thing I thought when I was at Pittsburgh that they saw the big picture.
They understood The type of player that they wanted, they understood.
Somebody that fit into the Pittsburgh mold, who they were trying to be.
And they drafted those kind of guys.
That's all they drafted.
You didn't see them go out on a limb very much.
You don't see them go out there for the guy that Mel Kuyper says is great.
They go for the guy they think is great.
And they have a very good structure.
Their scouting staff has been in place for years.
Tom Donahoe was there for years in that organization.
And the guy escapes me that's there now, he's been there for years.
And they just are very solid and make good picks.
The good thing about New England that you brought up, Bill Belichick is making the decisions.
And when you have the guy that understands the needs of the football, has insight into the needs of football, and is making the decisions, and is a smart guy, and very good at evaluating personnel, then that helps it because there's no middle man.
There's no middleman in there anywhere.
But these other places where you got a GM over here and a coach over here and they're all trying to protect their own little thing, you know, the GM drafts them and the And they don't play well.
And they said, well, he was a high draft choice.
The coach should have coached him.
And the coach says, well, I didn't want him.
I wanted somebody else.
And that's where the trust and the rift comes in football right now.
Exactly.
Is that why Parcells, you know, especially later in his career, was so adamant that he wouldn't go back into coaching unless he had, unless he could start.
I think his words were buy the groceries.
Yeah.
If he was going to cook anymore to buy the groceries.
Yeah.
Shanahan was the same way.
Parcells was the same way.
All those guys had that.
Dan had it at Denver.
And so those days are getting fewer and further between to have that because somewhere somebody thought it was great to have two or three people doing it rather than one person doing it.
Somebody decided the committee was going to work best.
Well, one of the things that you look at, and you've got teams, and we mentioned some that are struggling, and let's just go through these.
Detroit.
You know, Cleveland to a point, but there's a lot of issues at Cleveland.
We can deal with that.
But you've got Detroit.
You've got teams that are constantly – you're just not in the – they don't make the playoffs.
They have issues, you know, on and off throughout the time.
Is it more pressure on the coaches and them to do, as you said, to hit the home run than it is to try and build?
Because teams and fan bases are just not willing to wait.
Yeah.
Well, that's where all this money that's involved that they're throwing around now creates wanting instant success.
You throw money to a player, you throw money to coaches, and if you put that much money in somebody, you want instant success.
And that very seldom happens in this business.
And the number one way to get instant success is to draft players.
Joe Burrow, the quarterback that's going to take you to the next level.
Now, granted, you've got to get him some people around him, and you've got to coach him right, and you've got to give him ways to be successful, and every quarterback's different, but those kind of guys are the guys that are going to make a coach good.
Yeah, to a fan who never played college or pro football, never did, but watched it, loved it, played football as a kid, coached on a younger level.
One of the things that always, and I wonder from your perspective, is it just me or how many good, what you would perceive as good quarterbacks come out of college, they're hyped up, they go top five in the draft, if you would, and go to a bottom five team.
In which they have no line, and they struck...
I almost want to say it would almost be malpractice to draft a Trevor Lawrence without the other four picks in your draft being offensive linemen, you know?
Yeah, right.
But if you have a chance to get Trevor Lawrence, you can't pass it up.
Right.
You know, that...
You should be thrown out of your job if you don't take Trevor Lawrence, if you don't take Joe Burrow.
And really, there's about one, at the most, two every year that come out that you say, okay, this is a guy.
This is one right here.
And he's going to make a difference in the football team.
Eventually, he will make a difference.
Okay, and we would all agree, over the last couple years, Trevor Lawrence, definitely, you know, one of those quarterbacks.
I mean, you've seen several come out.
I think he is probably, you know, again, given the right, if they can get it straight in Jacksonville, here you are the second year in a row, number one draft choice.
I mean, we'll see how that works.
Is this also a year, and I would love to hear your comment on this, a lot has been made that this is not the year of the quarterback in this draft.
And do you think, just from your looking, because you've coached this position, you know, with Pickett, with some of the others out there, there's a lot of folks, including myself, that say there's not a first-round quarterback in this group.
Is that true, or do you think we're missing something?
No, I think that's absolutely true.
Now, There'll probably be two taken in the first round.
Maybe three.
You know?
Because you push, the position has such a need that you push that position higher on the board than you should.
You give it more weight than it should for the production and the potential that the player has.
And I think that's going to be interesting to see as you go along with these teams.
This brings us, before we get into, and that's my sort of first question on the actual draft this year, but before we get there, free agency.
There are some teams that focus draft and free agency.
There are some that tend to focus a lot on free agency.
Some, you know, tend to do draft more than anything else.
How is free agency affected or does it affect your draft date scenarios?
Very much so.
Oh, very much so.
If you can fill a hole on your football team via the free agency before you get to draft, Then you tend not to push a guy higher in the draft than he should be.
And so you don't, oh gosh, we're desperate for a wide receiver.
Then you push somebody up a little bit higher than you should.
But if you got one in free agency, now you don't have to make that push up to free, push that guy up the board.
And just so we don't lose my train of thought because of my age, Doug, okay?
Going back to quarterbacks for just a second.
Right.
Personally, I'd rather have Baker Mayfield than any of those guys that are coming out this year.
If I were one of those teams, I'd go get Baker Mayfield before I'd take any of these guys.
Why is that?
I'm interested, Coach.
You got me curious.
I think Baker's a pretty good football player, and I think he's been humbled a little bit.
His problem has been he thinks he can make every play all the time, and it's his responsibility to go out and win the game.
And I think he's probably been humbled a little bit to say, okay, maybe I don't have to be that guy.
Let me just go play the football game, which he has, to me, he has a tremendous feel for the football game.
He has a tremendous energy for the game.
I think he's smart.
But that's personal opinion, and that's, you know, that and a dollar gets you a cup of coffee now.
So that's where I sit on the quarterbacks in the draft today.
Well, I can say that.
Look, you're a lot closer than us, and you've actually done it.
Where do you think Baker's going to end up?
I don't know.
If I was Carolina, I'd be trying to get there.
I know that.
You know, I would be trying to get there if I could.
Okay, well, let's take one a little bit closer to home for us in the quarterback situation.
I'm not sure that the Falcons, I think they have just patched it this year, hoping maybe to get to another year in the draft with a quarterback, with Mariota and others.
So take a team like Atlanta, who gave away or traded away their franchise quarterback.
We can argue back and forth.
Matt is a great man, great guy.
But it was about time, probably, in Atlanta.
Yeah.
Okay, put yourself in Atlanta's position.
You're now looking at needs of draft and free agency.
You don't have – I mean, whatever you want to think about Mariota, he's an aged quarterback.
He's never matured into what most thought that he would.
Now, this may be the opportunity for him.
Atlanta has what I call a malaise attitude a little bit.
It's just like they can't seem to get over that hump.
What do you do with a team like Atlanta in between free agency and draft?
Do you think there's enough there to go at it?
Or is this a true rebuilding where they're just going to pick what they want to pick?
Yeah, they are in a rebuilding situation now.
The thing I thought was smart is they do struggle in the offensive line.
To go get a mobile quarterback was a must.
They can't get a guy that just sits back there in the pocket.
They need a guy that's a mobile quarterback.
I would see them looking for some young player.
I've heard the guy at Arizona could be on the trading block even.
Yeah, Kyler Murray.
If I was Atlanta, you know, I might spend some money and some draft picks or whatever it took to at least investigate to look at that.
Because I think while you're rebuilding, you've got to choose how you're going to rebuild.
I know Bill Cower, when we went in there, it was all about offensive line, defensive line.
Pass rushers, run defenders in the defensive line, and offensive tackles and guards, and we built it on the lines.
Now, they may say, okay, we're going to build defense.
We're going to get a mobile quarterback and then work on our offensive line as time goes on.
You know, whatever.
I don't know how they want to do it, but you better have a plan and you need to stick to the plan of how you're going to go about it.
Do you think that happens sometimes when they get into the draft and they look at it and...
Maybe the shiny object all of a sudden hit, something that didn't happen that you expected to happen or happened that you didn't expect to happen, and all of a sudden there's a shiny object out here, a player that, oh, wow, and then it's sort of, do they mind getting distracted into that plan?
You can.
You shouldn't, but I've seen it happen many times that they get enamored with a guy that, And I've seen it happen in the second and third round.
A guy that's a fourth or fifth round pick gets pushed up to the second round.
It happens in the first round, but you may have two great defensive tackles, and all of a sudden, by the time it gets to your pick in the first round, the best guy is the top defensive tackle you had rated.
Well, do you take him or do you not take him?
And that's always the question.
And I don't have the exact answer, but I think that you better have a plan and you better stick to it, whatever your plan is.
And everybody needs to be on the same page and trust each other with that plan.
Well, let's dive in just a little bit.
We've got a little bit of time left here.
Let's do this.
We've got Jacksonville on the clock, number one again, second year in a row.
What are they going to have?
Everything except the quarterback.
I mean, seriously.
If you were Lawrence, would you be asking for a trade?
No.
I think that quarterbacks in general have a certain level of cockiness.
That they need.
And they think, hey, just get us a little bit.
We can go in.
And you need that kind of guy that believes in himself so much that he thinks he can take the team and get to where it needs to get to.
Like a Joe Burrow.
Joe, I mean, he's got some players around him.
It just happened this past year that they got it all together.
But It can happen in a short I think everybody would be shocked if they didn't take Aiden Hutchinson and I could see him taking Evan Neal from Alabama as an offensive tackle to help because they do have Trevor Lawrence and they want to protect him.
But whatever their plan is, do it.
You know, don't just get enamored, as you said.
Don't get the shiny object out there.
And just because the pundits are going to say, God, what a stupid pick that was, if you don't pick the guy they think you should pick, make sure that you pick the guy you believe is going to be the best for your team.
Well, always remember that late-round Tom Brady pick that nobody understood.
Right.
The best ever.
Next up, Detroit.
There's an example of a quarterback who they have now.
They got rid of Stafford.
Everybody agrees Stafford.
And Stafford showed it this year in winning.
I mean, Stafford was a winner from day one.
Jared Goff has just been thrown around.
Detroit's another, again, Sort of a stumbling block, ash heap.
Again, are they like Jacksonville?
And why?
They've had so many high-round draft picks.
Maybe this goes back to your conversation earlier.
Detroit, probably on average, has been in the top six of draft picks more in the last 20 years than anybody else.
Yeah.
But you have to have a team that's a dumpster fire.
Yes.
Well...
How many head coaches have they had through the years?
How many different GMs have they had through the years?
Same thing.
Jacksonville tried to bring in Tom to get that thing squared away down there.
And I don't know what happened, but if Tom can't get it turned around and get it squared away and get everybody on the same page, It must be a bad situation down there.
And I guarantee you some of it stems from the very top too.
Some of it will stem from the very top as far as decision making and picking the right people.
And owners don't know football.
Okay?
So they listen to people in football to give them direction.
And Sometimes they choose the wrong people to listen to.
And that's a big issue.
You've got to pick the right people to listen to as an owner.
It's going to be interesting to see how Jacksonville and Detroit, two teams that are right now perennial, you know, format.
Bottom feeders.
Yeah.
And one has a new management, you know, new ownership who is, you know, some have said a little too out there, but I mean, but very involved.
It gets involved in everything kind of thing, but not just football, like you said.
But then isn't it true that Detroit ownership is still old school, Yeah.
It's old school.
Which do you think has the better chance?
This is a curious question here.
An infusion of new ownership in Jacksonville, who may be a little scattered, but willing to spend some money, willing to take chances, if you would, if they get the right coach.
I think Urban Meyer was a big problem there.
But then you go to Detroit, the older line, it seems to me that Jacksonville has the better opportunity to become a better team than Detroit does.
Because they got a quarterback.
They got a quarterback.
And they have the structure inherently of the possibility of at least putting something together.
Detroit's not showing any angle they do.
They do.
I really believe Dan Campbell at Detroit is a very good football coach.
And I think he does it the right way.
And if they'll have some patience and do a good job in the draft and do a good job in free agency, which is a big gift for them because traditionally, as you have stated, they have not done a good job.
But if they'll stay the course, I think they will get better, but I'm not a big Jared Goff guy, so there's a ceiling for them.
Right now, the ceiling is much higher for Jacksonville.
I can say that.
Well, and again, because you were Coach Joe coached at Miami and others in this offense, so you saw some of these quarterbacks coming out in draft.
I mean, you've actually looked at some of these as they were coming in.
Right.
Let's hit one.
I want to hit one last and sort of wrap this up because I think it applies in the sense of what is going on in the world.
You mentioned Baker Mayfield, which I thought was very interesting in looking at.
Cleveland went out, and you talk about a cutthroat world.
I mean, here's Baker, you know, the face of the franchise.
Nobody wanted to talk about, you know, Cleveland was always just, all he said was Baker, Baker, Baker.
And all of a sudden, they go take Deshaun Watson out of free agency, pay him a lot of money.
Now, I've known Deshaun, in full disclosure here, I've known Deshaun since he was six years old.
He played football with my son in flag football.
He's always been the best athlete on the field.
And Even in light of what's going on, he's always, at least when I knew him, and at Clemson and others, a very good person.
He's got some issues he hasn't to deal with.
That's for the courts to decide and for him to have to get through it.
But it took him out of the game for a year.
He was having trouble even before the issues coming up, seemingly not wanting to be in Houston and this whole kind of thing.
So now Cleveland has Deshaun.
Houston is sitting at number three in the draft.
They've also been one of those perennial, never could get it together, very similar to Jacksonville in a way.
How does things like the Deshaun Watson move, the others affect a team like Houston, who also lost Watt, who lost, you know, they lost, you know, their wide receiver.
Going into a draft like they're sitting at number three, what's the mentality of a team like that?
Well, first of all, you've got to get your players...
To feel some sort of solid foundation.
I mean, they hired David Culley and fired him after one year.
What does that say?
That says, hey, let me get out of here.
They don't care what's going on here.
They're in it for the buck or they're in it for the PR, but They're not trying to build a solid foundation and find something to build on year after year after year after year.
If I'm a player, I'm saying I don't see a championship in the offing year.
So either I get big money or I'm leaving.
And so Houston is, to me, of the three we just mentioned, Detroit, Jacksonville, and Houston.
Houston's on the shakiest ground, to me, as an organization of all three of them.
Because they don't have anything to build on.
They got nothing to build on.
You know?
And I think, Dan, at Detroit, something to build on.
The quarterback, at Jacksonville, something to build on.
Houston has nothing right now.
Interesting.
Now, I'm going to ask about a team that, you know, we've joked about that is one of my favorites because I grew up with the Falcons, of course.
I'm a Falc fan, but I'm also a Raiders fan.
I know it's Denver.
Raiders is not.
We've talked about the Raiders.
Yeah.
But Mark Davis, you know, Al's son, who's continued with the Raiders, they're now in Las Vegas.
You're seeing a little bit of a resurgence.
They've made some moves.
I think they've stuck with Carr, which a lot of people didn't think they were going to do.
Yeah.
I'm looking for a little bit more actual pop out of what they may do through the draft and through free agency.
Do you think Davis has a little bit more, I don't say oomph about it right now, since they are settled again, they're in Vegas, they've got that vibe trying to be, you know, out there, or is this still going to be a struggle for the Las Vegas Raiders?
I think they're a better team than people give them credit for.
We played them when I was at Miami two years ago, and they were a good football team.
They've got some holes to fill, which I think in general they do a pretty decent job draft-wise.
I really do.
So, yes, I think they are on more solid footing and headed in the right direction more than some other teams in the league right now.
Miami.
Of course, you were there last.
That's where you were there last.
You and I have talked about this before.
The quarterback situation, I think, still is very much of a tentative situation.
They went downhill last year.
What does Miami need to do?
Boy, I'm probably too close to that situation to talk about it.
I understand.
But they...
I really think that they've done their very best to try to give Tua a chance to be successful.
I mean, with Tyreek Hill getting him in there.
They got Waddell from Alabama the year before.
He had over 100 catches last year.
So I think they've given him some weapons.
The tight ends are there.
The question, and the defensive coordinator and the defensive staff, they've got a good defensive football team.
Can they find a way to run the football?
Can they stay out of third and long?
Because that's where Tua is not at his best.
If it's third and sixth or more, that's where his struggles have come in the first two years.
It'll be, if they can't run the football, they're going to be in for the same type of season, you know, 8-8.
It's not 16 games anymore.
An 8-9, 9-8 type season.
I can't believe I forgot this.
What do you think about Wilson going to Denver?
Who went there?
Russell Wilson.
Oh, gosh.
Yeah, Russell went there from Seattle.
That's right.
I think it's great for Denver Broncos.
Okay.
I think it was smart for them to make that trade.
Where are you going to find Russell Wilson?
Anywhere in the draft or anywhere else out there.
You can't find him.
And, you know, Seattle was saying to themselves, we got to rebuild and let's get something for him while we can.
And they did.
And I think it's good for – I think it was smart for Seattle.
I think it was smart for Denver.
As we close up here, if you look at this draft, we look at it, say, six months from now or even a year from now.
Will you look back on this draft and say this was an offensive draft, this was a defensive draft, or this was a – What we'll call a maintenance draft, that there was a lot of good kids, a lot of good players, but nothing – because, you know, like sometimes you have the year of the quarterback, you know, five top five quarterbacks.
What do you think about this draft?
I think it's really good in the lines.
I think offensive line, defensive line is really good.
Probably, I think the kids from Iowa, one of the best centers to come out in the last few years.
You know, so I think what we'll see is we'll see very little flash in five to six years, but we'll see a lot of really good football players that are still playing in the league and being productive in the offensive and defensive lines.
And there's a few receivers.
That are out there, and maybe a tight end, but nothing like we've had in the past.
I think the line is where this draft is, offense and defense.
For the ones who love the old-style football, who love to know that it's defense and lines that win and go to those games, it's going to be a good year.
Coach Gailey, it is always a pleasure to have you around.
We're going to have you more as we get again to the camps, because as you well know, the draft is just the first day of getting them there to actually see what they can do.
That's exactly right, Doug.
It is.
Well, go have a great day.
Look forward to getting it.
We'll get on the golf course soon and have a good one and we'll talk more about this later.
Coach, thanks for being a part of the podcast.
Always great to be with you, Doug.
Take care.
Take care.
Talk to you later.
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