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Sept. 12, 2020 - The Dan Bongino Show

01:09:13

The Spygate Special With Devin Nunes & Carter Page (Ep 1344)

In this episode, I discuss new revelations in the Spygate scandal with Devin Nunes and Carter Page. Copyright Bongino Inc All Rights Reserved. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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	Get ready to hear the truth about America on a show that's not immune to the facts with your host, Dan Bongino.
	I've been looking forward to this show for a long time.
	The Dan Bongino Show, Spygate special.
	We've got a great interview with Devin Nunes, followed up by an interview with Carter Page.
	They both have new material out, new books.
	I want you to check them both out if you can, if you wouldn't mind.
	The Devin Nunes interview is fascinating.
	There's an angle he brings up about an investigation into Hillary's emails and a potential motive for Spygate that, candidly, I had not considered.
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	You're not going to want to miss the Devin Nunes interview part.
	Again, Carter Page at the end, who has been a victim of this entire Spygate scandal as well.
	Both of them are fascinating.
	But that part about Hillary Clinton's emails, I think is really going to get you.
	All right, let me get right to it.
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	Now, without further ado, our interview with Devin Nunes.
	Welcome to the Dan Bongino Interview Show.
	This is our, uh, is this our first two-time guest, Paula?
	It is, right?
	Devin Nunes?
	Yes!
	Well, who better than Congressman Devin Nunes?
	Congressman, thanks for joining the show.
	We appreciate it.
	Dan, it's always a pleasure to be with you, and it's great to be back on.
	As you know, I'm a big fan of your show, and it's nice that we can finally talk now that they're not trying to investigate us.
	There's always time, you know.
	And just a note, we'll be talking to the Congressman towards the end of the interview about his new book, Countdown to Socialism, available now at Encounter Books on Amazon and elsewhere.
	Please pick it up.
	There's a lot of really golden nuggets in there.
	And also, You'd be remiss if you didn't check out the Congressman Devin Nunes' podcast.
	Check it out on Rumble.
	You can also find it on YouTube.
	That's a whole other story, but his podcast is really excellent.
	He gets a ton of views on Rumble, so check that out.
	He's got great material there.
	So, Congressman, our audience really loves the work you've done on Spygate.
	If it wasn't for you, we wouldn't know 90% of this story.
	So there's been some revelations in the last few days about John Brennan.
	John Brennan wrote an op-ed in the Washington Post recently and there's it seems to be a new date in there where he's kind of coming clean on something.
	He writes in the op-ed that he briefed Obama about some of this Russian information on July 28th.
	Which, as you know, is fascinating because he has insisted in congressional hearings, Brendan, that he hadn't heard about the dossier, which contained most of the Russian information, until December, which is obviously after July.
	What do you think's going on there?
	Why do you think he wrote that op-ed?
	Well, let me first say that I'm not exactly sure that he has been clear on when he or how he got the dossier because he made several statements along the lines, and I'm paraphrasing, that everybody had heard of it, a lot of people knew it was going around, this information, that sort of thing.
	I think Brendan has two issues that are a challenge for him.
	One is the obvious what I call Obama's dossier.
	That was the intelligence community assessment that was done right after the election.
	That was clearly a team of people that weren't your typical people that should have done this.
	And the House Republicans did an exhaustive investigation.
	And we found that that had, at best, extremely poor tradecraft.
	Now, we would like to know exactly who put that team together.
	How were they put together?
	And, you know, how did they come up with these conclusions?
	And as you know, Dan, just a matter of a couple weeks before Obama got really tough with the Russians, and, you know, kicked some diplomats out, which ultimately then that was used to, as you know, Flynn, remember, supposedly sanctions, But nobody really knew what the hell they were talking about because there wasn't really sanctions.
	You just got mad and threw a fit and kicked some people out.
	Because at the time, taking you back to that time period, when people talk sanctions, that was about Crimea.
	That was about the invasion of Crimea that, by the way, Obama didn't do jack about.
	And so when you're talking sanctions, I didn't even know what the hell they were talking about.
	What sanctions?
	Why would Flynn be talking about sanctions?
	It was very, very, very weird as that all happened.
	So Brendan has the ICA problem.
	What you're talking about is this other problem of why is it so that he just happens to be briefing people at the end of July, desperately, and I can take from my perspective, he was desperately trying to get ahold of me.
	Because we had just adjourned, and then I was headed overseas for one of our intelligence trips.
	I was going to be gone for an extended amount of time, and he had to talk to me.
	But then when I finally got back and met with him in September, it was very strange because it wasn't your typical Gang of Eight briefing.
	It was a one-on-one briefing.
	I don't know why you wouldn't call in at least.
	Typically, you would maybe do House and Senate.
	Sometimes, all eight are together.
	Sometimes, it's just House and Senate.
	So, this happens in September.
	I remember my staff director, who's now passed away, unfortunately, of brain cancer.
	He's one of the guys who was instrumental in this whole investigation.
	But when Brennan left that day, we actually were laughing at him because he was hair on fire, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia.
	And it was just a few months before the mainstream media has somehow forgot about this.
	But I had been warning about Russia and so much so that I said it was the largest failure since 9-11.
	That was in the spring of 2016.
	So here just a few months later, as we were trying to get the intelligence community's attention on Russia, they now come to us with a bunch of hair on fire, but no information.
	We now know, if you can believe former Senator, retired now, Harry Reid, Democratic leader, Couple days after he met with Brennan, he happened to write a letter to the FBI.
	He seemed to know all about the dossier.
	So, we didn't get briefed on the dossier by Brennan, my staff director and I. Paul Ryan, who was the other Gang of Eight member from the House of Representatives on the Republican side, he didn't get briefed on the dossier at that time.
	So, I think there's a lot of explaining to do.
	How does Brennan brief Reed, not me?
	How does what Brennan supposedly is saying now, it matches, kind of matches up?
	With the dossier in many, many ways.
	And as you know, you've covered it so well on your show.
	You know, likely this dossier was an imaginative product that was developed, kind of a creative product developed by Fusion GPS.
	And then they essentially found avatars to push this out there.
	Whether it was Christopher Steele or the Clinton confidant, Scheer, and they were running it into the State Department, into the FBI, into the CIA.
	So that's really, I think, the two areas where Brennan has a whole lot of explaining to do because his stories just don't add up.
	And I'll just finish it with this, Dan.
	Why has he been so vocal against Trump?
	I mean, it's always Russia, but then when he got behind closed doors, when he had to testify to us, he didn't have anything.
	So what he's said publicly, doesn't match what he said behind closed door
	when he was under oath.
	And then I'm old enough to remember, I was around long enough to remember to know that in 2016,
	when I was raising alarm bells, nobody in the Obama administration, including Brennan,
	wanted a damn thing to do about it.
	Well, this is interesting in light of the new information since the last time I spoke to you on my podcast.
	That interview did spectacular numbers.
	People find what you have to say fascinating.
	But we have new information now, Congressman.
	We know some of the testimony by Brennan and others, Susan Rice and others, up on Capitol Hill has since been declassified.
	We now know that there is no intelligence about collusion.
	None.
	That nobody, if I'm saying anything inaccurate, don't let me misquote you.
	No, you knew that for me.
	You don't even need a Nunes translator for that.
	We love it.
	We need that.
	Where's Joe?
	We don't need a Nunes translator.
	We're just reading their own words where they couldn't put their finger on one piece of tangible verified intelligence leading to believe that there was ever Any Russian collusion.
	Now, this is odd, because you have been a Russia hawk your entire career, warning the Obama administration about Russia.
	All of a sudden, Brennan comes in, as you say, hair on fire to you.
	It's now July-August period, July-August-September.
	He comes in screaming about Russian interference in an election.
	He oddly briefs you.
	By the way, you're not a rank-and-file congressman.
	You're the chairman of the Intel Committee.
	Not that there's anything wrong with being a rank-and-file, but you get the point.
	You're supposed to be briefed on this.
	And the briefing you get, I believe, is far different than the briefing Harry Reid gets, a Democrat leader on the Senate side.
	That's right.
	Because Harry Reid then writes a letter to the FBI that contains information, congressman, as you just said, suspiciously similar to what's in the fake dossier.
	Am I reading any of this wrong?
	No, no, you have it nailed.
	And if you think about it, you know, it was it was so hair on fire to then it was so important that you had to have a secretive separate briefing for just me and my staff director without Paul Ryan there even.
	That was so odd.
	And then, you know, we had been on top of this Russia threat for a long time.
	We, the Republicans, because we had been telling them about the Russian threat.
	Okay, they're the ones that wanted to do the Russian reset.
	They're the ones that didn't do a damn thing.
	We were caught totally blind in Libya, in Syria, in Crimea.
	So we were the ones who were on top of this warning them about that.
	So to have Brennan come in there, he needed to talk to me for a month.
	And then he finally has his shot to get in there and talk to us.
	And it was the strangest damn briefing I've ever seen because he didn't have anything.
	So what was he briefing you about, though?
	I mean, listen, I know you can't get into that.
	I understand that.
	But what was the gist of what he's saying?
	You've said a couple of things repeatedly on your Fox interviews where I have to employ the translator, because I know you're limited in what you can say, and I understand.
	But you've repeatedly said that there was no formal five eyes intelligence used to open this Trump investigation into collusion.
	So if we know now that Brennan and the others testified up on Capitol Hill that they had nothing, we know there's no formal evidence trail from our foreign partners saying that they had anything on Russian collusion, then what the hell was Brennan telling you guys?
	I don't understand.
	What was he saying?
	It was, it was, it was essentially innuendo.
	It was innuendo that, you know, we now believe what he was actually telling us was what was in the dossier because none of it really made sense.
	It was quite a short meeting and obviously I can't get into what was said, but there wasn't hardly anything there.
	And that was what was so bizarre about it.
	Why would you wait a whole month of August and finally you get the chance to brief, you got to do this separate briefing and it's about nothing.
	And as you've heard me say this, you're exactly right.
	The reason I always said Five Eyes Intelligence is because the dirty cops at the FBI and the mainstream media, the propaganda arm of these cats, they were the ones who constantly talked about, oh, Five Eyes this, Five Eyes that, our partners this, our partners that.
	They had went to the UK, as you know.
	There's all this involvement with the Cambridge Club.
	They're the ones who were insinuating That they had five eyes intelligence and for that your audience probably knows this but five eyes is basically the English speaking countries in the world.
	We've had a long standing partnership that dates back to World War Two where we have we do intelligence sharing.
	So that would be Australia, New Zealand, Canada, United Kingdom, and the United States.
	So, I just wanted to make sure, going all the way to that time period, the reason I was very clear about that there was not only no intelligence from our side, there was no intelligence from the Five Eyes side either, because they were always pretending that Downer, the Australian High Commissioner, they called him, the ambassador essentially in the UK, he was the one that supposedly brought this to the State Department.
	So I always wanted people to be clear, there was never a damn bit of intelligence from Five Eyes.
	And of course, now you know from reading all the other, all the testimony now, you knew that we didn't have a damn bit of intelligence either.
	And that's really the issue here because there's lots of rumor, lots of innuendo that can be out there.
	You've been in this business, Dan, doing secret service.
	Everybody's got a story.
	Everybody's got a plot.
	Everybody's got a conspiracy theory.
	But the reason we spend tens of billions of dollars on our intelligence agencies is you don't want something getting to policymakers or decision makers that have to decide you know, to strike a terrorist or to take a position
	against a foreign adversary, unless you have high confidence in that intelligence. And I
	can tell you, we never, not only do we have no confidence, we didn't even
	have any intelligence.
	So there was nothing to even look at, other than all this rumor and innuendo.
	There was nothing ever, never, never.
	And now the only thing that should have been investigated is why were the Democrats.
	Hiring a foreign agent to go talk to Russians, there was likely disinformation if he ever even talked to a Russian.
	That should have been the counterintelligence investigation.
	Trump should have never been investigated because they had zero, nothing.
	That's what I said from the beginning, and that happens to be exactly what they were saying.
	It's just that wasn't what they were alluding to the mainstream media, and it sure as hell wasn't what the media was telling everybody.
	Yeah, I mean, I've never seen anything like this.
	When I was doing security advances for the president in some, in hot zones specifically, you know, I just remember the Indonesia and Afghanistan trip where I, you know, I was the lead advance on those trips and you're dealing with Intel people because you, you obviously want to know what the threat atmosphere on the ground and you're not going to walk the president into a potential RPG attack, right?
	Is that a Marco Rubio moment there?
	Look at you.
	It wasn't even water.
	What was it?
	You got coffee there?
	Sorry.
	You gotta watch the video.
	I thought this was supposed to be casual, man.
	That's what I love about this show.
	All right, no, no, back to the interview because I was on to something.
	I don't want to lose my place.
	I'm not giving like a live performance speech here in front of millions of people.
	I'm talking to you on a podcast.
	You know I love you, man.
	You're the best.
	That's why you're the only two-time guest and you will probably only be the only, well, the president too, but that's different.
	Listen, when he calls, you take the call.
	But when I go over there, And I'd say, listen, we want to go to downtown Kabul, which actually happened.
	I mean, we didn't make it to Kabul because of a sandstorm, but the intel guys come in and they give you a threat analysis.
	And there's a PowerPoint sometimes and data, and this is the name of the group.
	And this is what we've seen their MO in the past, the weapons they may have acquired is based on actual information.
	My problem with this case and my concern with, with all the information you put out there, You've never actually said what they had.
	You know what I'm saying?
	Did they ever have anything?
	I mean, was their case the entire time that the Russians are really bad and interfere in our elections?
	Because we've known that since, you know, the 40s.
	Did they ever have anything, ever?
	Or is this whole thing just a fabrication made up in the mind of Brennan, the Hillary team, and their dossier team?
	Well, it's for sure that.
	Now, I said this the other day on Fox, it's the question now for Durham to figure out is who ordered the kill shot, right?
	Who ordered these guys to do this?
	Because somebody concocted this, it was likely the greater Clinton team, whether you include Fusion GPS, they concocted a story that was likely to, I believe they thought the Russians had Hillary's emails.
	As you know, everybody under the sun, we had Active, they don't like to hear this part.
	This is an important part.
	They don't like to hear that the House of Representatives, Republicans, led by Jason Chaffetz, who you know, Dan, had an active investigation to look for those emails.
	So, I think they were very concerned that the missing emails on the missing server that was 110% illegal to do.
	That somehow those might turn up and they must have been really damn embarrassing.
	So these are sick, sick, sick, demented people and I don't say that lightly.
	So I think what they were doing probably in late 2015, There's there they hire fusion GPS and all their thinkers and they're sitting there thinking, okay, what could possibly go wrong?
	We're going to have Donald Trump.
	What could go wrong for the selection?
	Well, those emails could turn out that we don't know.
	You know, could those get to the FBI before comey has his famous July 5th?
	You know, goofy press conference where he exonerates her July 5th of 2016 before the election.
	I think they're very worried that those emails are going to come out.
	So they start to what they do is they develop these fake news narratives that are that are meant to solve multiple problems at once kill more than more than.
	Two birds with one stone, so to speak.
	So that's what I believe they were doing.
	And then they just got, it got way out of hand, way out of control.
	It turned into an October surprise where they wanted to actually, they kept trying to tie Trump to Russia because they were the ones that were tied to Russia.
	I mean, so much so that they were paying a foreign spy to go to Russia to get information.
	He never went to Russia, but you and your audience, you know all of that.
	This was essentially made up information.
	Let me just, before we move on to your next question, Dan, I want to talk to you about the difference between types of intelligence products.
	So, you talked about when you're dealing with on the ground.
	So, what that is, that's like tactical information in real time that when you're trying to do That's a different type of intelligence than what we deal with, and damn sure different intelligence than what our intelligence agencies, if they're going to open up into a political campaign using counterintelligence, going to the FISA court, you better damn sure have some finished intelligence products.
	Not just hearsay.
	And not only did they have, they didn't even really have hearsay, Dan, because what they had was they had a fake and phony narrative that the Clinton campaign made up and fed in to the FBI.
	And that's why I'll just finish with this.
	We need to know who ordered that done.
	Were Strzok and Page and McCabe and all these guys and Clinesmith, were they just such morons that they didn't know that this was Clinton dirt and they just happened to do it?
	Or did they actually know and did somebody order them to do it?
	And that's what Durham's got to get to the bottom of.
	And it's, as you know, there's a lot of different components to this from the Defense Department and the Cambridge Club group and the money that flowed there to whatever the hell they were doing at the State Department, the CIA, what they were doing with this whole ICA debacle, this Intelligence Committee, Obama's dossier, as I like to call it.
	There's a whole lot to look at and I think that's why it's taking Durham so long to get to the bottom of and that's why it's spread to where there's actually three additional U.S.
	attorneys that are looking into the greater Russia hopes problem here.
	Yeah, and Attorney General Barr, you know, when asked about future indictments, if there were going to be any, he was pretty clear that he's not willing to rule anything out, that there'll be future indictments.
	And he's a man of a few words.
	I'm going to take a quick break, but you just said something fascinating.
	I want to follow up.
	We're talking to Devin Nunes.
	Folks, please go pick up his book, An Encounter Books, available on Amazon, Countdown to Socialism.
	Please pick it up today.
	It's an important piece of work.
	We're going to get to some of the things in this book about fake news, social media issues, all the stuff that's really the evergreen topics of the day.
	On the other side of the break, I just want to follow up on something.
	We'll be right back with Devin Nunes.
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	Now back to Devin Nunes.
	All right, welcome back, Congressman Devin Nunes, again, author of the new book, Countdown to Socialism.
	Please pick it up.
	An extremely important piece of work, especially with everything going on right now.
	So, Congressman, I had never heard that piece of information, that Congressman Chaffetz and others were involved in an investigation into what happened with those emails.
	And that makes perfect sense with those missing emails.
	I mean, obviously, everybody knew that there was an investigator to the emails.
	But what I'm getting at there is, You know, you're always looking for a motive when you're an investigator.
	You know, why?
	Well, obviously the motive for Hillary was to win the election by tarring Donald Trump with the Russia label.
	He's a Russian traitor.
	But that's a great point you bring up.
	That maybe they were afraid that someone would unearth these emails, that they were potentially damaging, and the way to turn it around and do a 180 would say, oh look, the Russians did it!
	They're working with the Russians and that's how they got the... That's just fascinating.
	I never heard you say that before.
	Well, I mean, look, I'm saying it to you and your audience because I know that you got, I mean, nobody's done a better job than you of getting to the bottom of this.
	I mean, guys, you wrote, you wrote a, what, now almost, I guess you have a third book coming out on it, right?
	Yeah, yeah, we do.
	That's right.
	So, and your audience is way up to speed on this, and so it's easier to explain to people, because you don't have to spend all kinds of time explaining it.
	But these guys are very sophisticated, they're very good, and they're very demented.
	And so when you look at them, they look at all the options.
	When they do a disinformation operation, they have multiple targets.
	And so then they build these fake news narratives that have multiple targets.
	And let's just take one that's in the news today and recently.
	You notice that there is this constant drumbeat about President Trump That he has somehow did something too bad against veterans, bad against the military, and you've got an unprecedented number of military generals and admirals retired that are coming out against him.
	Right.
	This is not, and you've got Bob Woodward talking about it, the Atlantic story.
	And look, you can pick this stuff up pretty easy because you know the Atlantic story comes out
	and then voila, there's an ad from one of the operative groups already running.
	Like right after the story comes out.
	Right, so there you go.
	So it's easy to kind of piece this together.
	So they clearly know in their polling that Trump has support of the veterans.
	He has support of active military in the polling.
	And what's the one way that they can not only say, oh, he has not only horrible foreign policy, and he's a disaster with Russia.
	He's being controlled by Russia.
	You can't trust anything he says.
	Oh, and oh, by the way, the veterans and military, he disparages them.
	This isn't done in a vacuum.
	This was something that they planned to be a fake news narrative, and they're going to continue it.
	It started with Mattis and all those guys coming out and doing what they did.
	They're continuing to do it.
	And that's why you saw this Atlantic story.
	And my guess is that we're going to continue to see more of these stories as we go along that are designed to do the overall big things, which are Draw veterans and active military votes away from Trump and to Biden, and at the same time dirty him up with foreign policy.
	Sound familiar?
	That's what they did.
	The Clinton people knew that they had a problem with these emails.
	They knew damn well that probably a foreign adversary had them.
	And so why not do a twofer, which is, if they come out, it's to help Trump because Trump's got all these evil ties to Russia.
	And if you go back to the proto-dossiers that Lee Smith discovered, the proto-dossiers were where they went from, let's try to tie Trump to being a gangster, criminal gangster with Russians, to, oh, it switched all of a sudden into, oh, no, no, he's actually, it's Putin and all of his people inner circle that are trying to control Trump.
	They made enough, Dan.
	They're sick.
	Yes, they did.
	They already, remember Glenn Simpson had already wrote this story in 2007 in the Wall Street
	Journal.
	2007 about the same players and they tried the same stunt on McCain when McCain ran for
	president.
	Remember?
	Oh my gosh, McCain's been, and it didn't go anywhere because George Bush was president
	at the time.
	It wasn't going to allow the CIA to be hijacked.
	So you're putting all the pieces together here perfectly.
	These groups that are paid to run disinformation campaigns, that are using almost overseas insurgency type tactics we would use to foment an insurgency, these groups have pre-packaged narratives.
	They need to take down Trump.
	The way they destabilize Trump, question is legitimacy, is by slapping the Russian narrative against him.
	The problem is they don't have any Trump ties to Russia that are legitimate.
	So they just pay someone to make it up.
	They slap a patina on it.
	Christopher Steele said it.
	He was a Russia guy in the UK.
	The information makes its way to Brennan.
	Brennan feeds it into you guys, Congress and Harry Reid.
	Reid then tells the FBI to investigate it.
	And then all of a sudden you have the whole justice system and intelligence apparatus hijacked by a fake disinformation campaign.
	You know, I read something recently about these disinformation campaigns.
	There was an article in the New York Post about Stanley McChrystal advising a group called Defeat Disinfo, which is an ironic name again because it should be called Promoting Disinformation, and this is what they're doing.
	This was in the New York Post, I'm not just throwing McChrystal's name out there randomly, that he's advising a military leader Advising on how to basically promote disinformation at home.
	Isn't that what this whole thing was?
	Absolutely, that's what it's about.
	And yeah, the name is rather ironic.
	I mean, you know the rules as well as I do.
	Whatever they accuse you of doing, they're actually the ones that are doing it.
	It's always a safe, safe rule to follow.
	But the thing they also knew, they were very sophisticated, Uh, they had this story on the shelf.
	They knew a lot of the players.
	They knew they could kind of make it, make it real.
	As you said, going back to 2007, they had done it to, to other people already.
	You know, don't forget what they had done to, uh, uh, it seems escaping me right now, but the, um, uh, gosh, they tarnished the guy horribly.
	The Magnitsky Act, yes.
	Based on the Magnitsky Act, they were trying to get it overturned.
	Yeah, they were paid by the Russians, because the Russians hated the Magnitsky Act.
	I mean, just a quick summary.
	That was basically a series of sanctions against the people involved in the death of Mr. Magnitsky.
	The Russians hated it, because the people involved were Russian, and they were paying Fusion GPS to trash the Magnitsky Act.
	And Bill Browder is the guy that I'm trying to, who I couldn't think of his name.
	They destroyed his life, and he's still trying to get his name back.
	So my point was, as you said, they had already used this Russia stuff multiple times.
	They knew all the players, but more so than that, they knew exactly where to plug this in.
	So if they plug it into the State Department, the CIA, the counterintelligence at the FBI, the White House, and of course, all of the news media, It makes it look real.
	And so all of this had been tested, as you said, for nearly a decade already.
	So it was very easy to put this all together, including steel.
	Steel had been involved in one of these operations before too, which was rather ironic.
	I think the new issue that came up in Spygate The hoax is actually the Cambridge Club development.
	That was new.
	This ability to move money to the Defense Department to then go and prop up this phony group at Cambridge that all I can really tell from the investigative work that we've done, the only thing that was ever happening at the Cambridge Club is they were courting Western journalists to come over there and get drunk for two weeks on the government's dime where they court these Press people.
	And then they would have these little seminars.
	But other than that, I don't know what the hell they were doing over there.
	Because when you look at the reports that were done with our with our money, those are real credible reports.
	Those are a joke.
	And in fact, so much so that a lot of the sources in those reports have now said on the record, they weren't sources.
	And so that was kind of a... I give them some bonus points for coming up with the whole Cambridge Club concept.
	That was a genius.
	And it's tough.
	And look, as you know, it's been tough to track it down.
	Yeah, so let me sum up what you're saying there for the less read and viewer, some who haven't followed the cases closely.
	So we have on the record documented payments, it's not a conspiracy theory, from the Office of Net Assessments in our Pentagon, our Pentagon.
	So your taxpayer dollars paid for it.
	Those payments from the Office of Net Assessments, hundreds of thousands of dollars and more, some of which went to Stephen Halper, who was involved, obviously, in this Spygate affair, alleged to be one of the spies, you know, spying on Papadopoulos.
	Those payments went to him.
	Some out there have suggested that those payments are for basically the creation of these papers and basically fake narratives fed to the media.
	So basically a disinformation campaign paid for with your tax dollars, paid to these people over in Cambridge, Halper and others, who are then feeding fake stories to the press that they run with as disinformation against political enemies?
	Am I summing that up accurately?
	Yeah, and the only part that I missed, this was my fault, that's probably the most important part, is you used to hear me say numerous times that, hey, using the dossier by the FBI, that was bad enough, but what was equally worse is what else they were using to get the FISA warrant.
	What else were they using?
	They were using pre-spying.
	They were spying.
	The Cambridge Club was used to spy on the Trump campaign long before they had opened the investigation up.
	And all of that information, this is the Papadopoulos and Page stuff, they were actually spying.
	Everybody thinks that they waited.
	They didn't really wait to get the Pfizer warrant.
	Hell, they were using taxpayer dollars to spy on the Trump campaign.
	They were using lures to lure them in, and they were tape recording them.
	Imagine that!
	You're being tape recorded by people that are paid by your own government.
	Those tape recordings were ending up in the FISA court.
	So they didn't wait for that.
	They waited for They weren't waiting at all.
	Cambridge Club was very active in spying on the Trump campaign.
	And then what they really did wrong, Dan, and why this was worse, it wasn't just about the spying, pre-spying.
	Then they lied and manipulated those recordings, and they didn't tell the FISA court what actually Page and Papadopoulos had been saying.
	Yeah, some of it was exculpatory.
	In other words, hey, we don't have anything to do with the Russians, I don't know what you're talking about, which I conveniently left out.
	Do you think the big shooter drop in this case is the Brennan-United Kingdom angle?
	I believe, you know, I don't want to speak for you, but for me, I believe Brennan was the puppet master here.
	I think it's obvious.
	I believe he wrote that op-ed I started this interview with in the Washington Post that I mentioned, and he was very, it's the only date in the op-ed he's specific about, July 28th.
	Brennan is not stupid.
	He's an Intel guy.
	Obviously, he was a former CIA director.
	There's nothing he does by accident.
	He's devious, but he's not dumb.
	I believe Brennan put that July 28th date in there for a reason.
	He knows he's in trouble.
	He knows Durham is zeroing in on him.
	I believe Brennan was doing this entire thing behind the scenes running essentially a black op with the United Kingdom trying to circumvent their own laws to spy on Donald Trump using foreign intelligence people.
	I believe he included that July 28th date for a reason.
	I think Durham knows That July 28th day is very important.
	It's also the same date Lisa Page in sworn testimony answers Trey Gowdy when Gowdy asks her during a hearing up on the hill, when did the New York field office learn about it and when did you know the New York field office had the information from Steele?
	She says July 28th.
	Now, it's awfully convenient that Brennan would then write an op-ed, I ran to the White House, ran, hurriedly, using his words, on July 20th, using that specific date.
	I think what he's doing in this op-ed, Congressman, is he's signaling to Obama and others, you better not throw me under the bus, because you knew too.
	In other words, Brennan had this dossier information from Steele in July, not December, as he said on the record.
	It's July, he was lying.
	What I would say about the July 28th date is that's their story and they're sticking to it.
	And no matter how many times we ask these guys, don't give us any more July 28th, tell us what you were doing beforehand.
	None of them would ever answer the question.
	And I'm talking about this was me, Ratcliffe, Gowdy, asking specific questions to both Rosenstein and Ray, by the way.
	We want to know what the hell was going on before July 28th.
	Not a peep, not a word, never.
	So I would say that they all know that pre-July 28th is a problem for them.
	And look, Here's what I don't have.
	I only have circumstantial evidence of this.
	But I think there's no question that the Cambridge Club is connected to Downer, the Australian High Commissioner that supposedly gets this information on Papadopoulos.
	The Cambridge Club is also connected to steel.
	The Cambridge Club has connections to the UK government, and that's what you're referring to.
	Whether or not the UK intelligence agencies knew about it, sure, their former spies for sure did, because they're part of this Cambridge Club.
	We know that the FBI is spending time over in the UK.
	So you start to piece all of that together and know, I mean, these are kind of the obvious questions that Durham needs to answer.
	How the hell did they know to invite Papadopoulos, or I mean Carter Page, over to the UK?
	Where did that come from?
	How does Carter pay?
	I mean, just just so happens that a dossier is being written, and that he's getting invited over over here from an entity that's getting government money from from our own Defense Department.
	These are all the questions that that and that's why I go back to who ordered this.
	Well, Congressman, don't you think it's awfully weird, too, that Bill Preistep and some FBI folks were in the United Kingdom in May?
	That's before July, for the liberals listening.
	And did you notice when Preistep was asked about that, and others were asked about that up on the Hill, the FBI lawyers got involved?
	Why are they... I'll just... I don't want to... I don't want to nail you down on... I know you're limited, but let me ask you this.
	Why are they so concerned about what they were up to pre-July 28th?
	Why?
	Look, whatever the hell they were cooking up, that is the overall problem.
	How was this even predicated?
	Because it wasn't.
	Because there's so much on the record about July 28th, July 28th, end of July.
	They're all on the record saying that, but the facts on the ground don't match their words about the end of July.
	None of that makes any sense.
	So you're exactly right.
	What the hell were they doing over there?
	How does the Cambridge Club know about these names?
	There's so many of the Trump people.
	How's this guy get inserted into this, this Cambridge Club guy?
	Then he's back in the United States doing secret recordings in the fall.
	This gets us post that time.
	Who decides to leave out the exculpatory evidence?
	I mean, you believe Clinesmith.
	He just says it was an honest mistake.
	I mean, there was a whole lot of honest mistakes that were made in this case, because in fact, they weren't they weren't honest at all.
	And somebody, somebody, somebody concocted this, plugged it into the right places.
	And somebody ordered all this to be to be done.
	They just didn't do it.
	Because they were really trying to get to the bottom of Trump and Russia because they knew damn well, there were there you talked about actual kind of actionable kind of tactical on the ground intelligence.
	They didn't even have that.
	I mean, they just had garbage.
	They had a steel dossier.
	It's just, it's just garbage.
	I mean, the first time I read that thing, when that thing came public and BuzzFeed, I mean, it was just like, what in the hell?
	You know what I mean?
	You know, I've been reading, I've been reading Intel reports for a decade.
	I mean, that didn't look like any Intel report.
	Why would the FBI and people be taking any of this seriously?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	No, I agree.
	It's a, it's a, it's a sad excuse for an intelligence product.
	All right, let's get to your book, folks.
	Please check it out.
	Countdown to Socialism by Devin Nunes.
	Again, Amazon, available on Encounter Books.
	You can get it cheaper over there.
	Please check it out.
	You know the congressman's been on our side.
	We'd be lost without him in this case.
	Let's support him out there.
	Tell me about the book.
	I hear you get into some fake news, how it works, how social media, disinformation campaigns.
	What are the highlights of the book?
	What can we look forward to?
	There it is!
	There it is!
	Nice orange and yellow cover.
	Countdown to Soch.
	Get it?
	Orange, yellow, hammer sickle.
	You intended that, I hope.
	You got it.
	All right.
	You got it.
	That's exactly why.
	And there's even drawings in here.
	I didn't do the drawings, but I designed the drawings.
	This is something you're not going to see done very often because it's something that we brought back from the past.
	At the time, the printing press became more readily available.
	People use this to make small pamphlets, informational packets that could get out and they take it around the colonies.
	It was used during the time of the revolution.
	The main point in my book, and I'll just sum it up with this, Dan, that you'll understand, is that it's not so much that what they did with the fake news complex that they have in this country.
	We've known that.
	That's not news.
	I have some interesting stories in there that involve the Russia hoax and kind of our involvement and how to spot it.
	But the key here is the disinformation funnel.
	And that's what I describe in depth here and why every American needs to read it.
	And it's done so in a short fashion that you can read it in just a couple hours, and then you can pass it on to your neighbors.
	That's why I wanna keep it very cheap, get it out as far and wide as possible, because we need to reach people.
	This isn't about like reading a Spygate book where you're gonna spend a week or two or three reading it each night.
	This is about sitting down, reading something in long essay form that's very simple to read, because people need to understand what this disinformation funnel is.
	And essentially what it is... See that?
	Right there, folks.
	Zoom in.
	I just bought it on Amazon.
	Right there.
	I just got it.
	I'm going to go to Encounter Books and get another copy, too.
	No, I love this idea.
	What about the disinformation campaigns?
	You got my ear here.
	Can you give us a little teaser?
	Do you describe how they work?
	How they promote these fake narratives?
	Well, that's basically what the book's about.
	It's not just about the fake news narratives and the disinformation campaigns.
	It's about this.
	This is the funnel.
	This is the funnel.
	So what's happening is Google and YouTube, one company, Facebook and Instagram, another company, And Twitter, pretty much everything that you see on this device is coming through those social media companies.
	You call the tech tyrants.
	I actually have another term for them.
	I call them tech oligarchs because they're worth so much money.
	They love to control the people in power.
	How best to do it?
	They're developing the content, the propaganda arm of the Democratic Party, the media,
	and how nice it is to have your actual funnel that you can actually control the flow directly
	to the American people. The key point that I make in this book that I think people need to understand,
	I finally looked around and I decided to write this. I looked around and I saw a statue of a
	I'm here in California right now.
	A statue of Father Serra, who was one of the founding architects of California.
	He developed the road system through here.
	He treated the sick.
	I mean, he was very, very popular, so much so the state of California has a statue of him in the U.S.
	Capitol.
	And he was Spanish.
	This was throughout the 1700s.
	And early 1800s.
	Why would you be tearing down a statue of Father Sarah?
	And then I realized when you start to look at the big cities, the Manhattans, the swamp in Washington, D.C., but then when you get out to the hinterlands, you see Trump boat parades and Trump flags, and you really start to see the difference.
	And what it is, is it's not that all these people that just want to live their life, they're not going to listen to your show, Dan, or my podcast.
	There's a lot of people out there who just every day they pick these funnels up and they get poisoned.
	They get poisoned.
	And I think that's what people need to understand is you're being poisoned.
	And that's why I made this small book so that you can pass it around to your neighbors so that you understand how you're being poisoned.
	I mean, Dan, you're going to understand everything in this book.
	It won't take you long to read and you'll enjoy it.
	But this is really made for your friend, your neighbor, who doesn't understand if they've been under a rock for the last four years.
	And I don't mean that they put themselves under a rock.
	They've been put under a rock on purpose by Obama, who in 2016, he was the one that came up with the term fake news.
	It wasn't Trump.
	And you can check that out.
	It's him and Zuckerberg that we're talking about.
	It was fake news in 2016.
	So they knew controlling Google, controlling the search engines wasn't enough.
	They had to really control Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.
	And they set about to do it, and they're doing it.
	And you're seeing it every day.
	The censorship, it's worse and worse and worse.
	It's why I'm on Parler.
	I'm so thankful.
	I actually learned about Parler from you.
	And now I'm putting my videos up on Up on Rumble.
	Rumble.
	We'll hopefully have some news about Rumble.
	We ain't got it at Rumble.
	Folks, defeat these guys, these tech tyrants.
	Rumble's good.
	You were the one actually that got me to start to do videos because I was doing my podcast, and we continued to grow every week, and listeners of the podcast, just the audio version on Spotify, everywhere that you're on, and iTunes.
	But you told me, hey, you know, you wish to do some video.
	And I thought, OK, let's do some video.
	I did.
	We're visual creatures.
	After doing a lot of video and putting them on YouTube, and then you can even go try this yourself.
	If you try to find my podcast on YouTube, good luck.
	What you're gonna find is mostly just left-wing, slanderous defamation about me.
	And that's when I said, oh my God, this is ridiculous.
	And so that's why I'm trying to support these companies that are small, but it's a place that actually we can go to where I know we're not gonna be censored.
	So I know I'm not gonna be censored on Parler.
	I'm not going to be censored on Rumble, and I'm not going to be censored in this book, because as long as somebody doesn't rip the pages out, you'll be able to read it, and it'll be exactly what I had to say.
	And it's why I went to a podcast, Dan, because I wanted the ability to not only reach my constituents and the people of greater California, but also people across the country and around the world, because I'm not going to talk, and I don't talk.
	As you know, I don't talk to the mainstream media.
	And I tell my colleagues, and this is in the book too, what the hell are you doing?
	Do you walk into the Democratic National Committee and sit down with Fusion GPS for an interview?
	No!
	Don't talk to Bob Woodward.
	Donald Trump just learned this this week.
	Bob Woodward, what the hell are you doing talking to these?
	These are assassins.
	Yeah, I don't know.
	Whoever advised him to do that should be fired.
	I agree with you.
	Parler, Rumble are the future tech platforms like that.
	Many of you know I have an ownership interest in Parler.
	Rumble's terrific.
	I hope to have some developments on that.
	Congressman, listen, thank you for your time, folks.
	He has a terrific podcast.
	Check it out on Rumble, a terrific video platform.
	Also, please pick up his book today, Countdown to Socialism.
	Pass it around.
	Buy a few copies.
	It's really cheap.
	Go to Encounter Books.
	He's kept it cheap for a reason.
	Congressman, we're going to have to have you back for round three.
	I had a couple questions here I didn't even get to about Spygate.
	You are the, you know, you're the guy.
	So maybe we'll do round three.
	Well, I hope to hell that Durham has at least an interim report before this election and that there's a few more indictments.
	We have 14 criminal referrals.
	There's a lot here.
	I just can't thank you enough for all the work that you've done.
	You're welcome.
	You don't need my congratulations.
	You know that because your podcast keeps growing.
	It's because of the work you've done.
	You have a huge platform.
	But there's a lot of people that don't have a big platform that are out there.
	Great podcasters have done a lot on Spygate.
	And thank God for these very few investigative journalists that were out there.
	I mean, there were, Dan, in total, and I'm including you in this, less than 20 people.
	And that includes people on Twitter that we don't even know who the hell they are, like UndercoverHuber.
	Undercover Huber, Technofog, Hans Monkey, Lee Smith, Jeff Carlson, Chuck Ross, Molly Hemingway, Sarah Carter, John Solomon.
	You're right, it's a handful of people.
	But really, you have been the lead.
	You really have.
	I got Carter Page coming up after you.
	I'm going to ask him some questions about his book as well.
	But you really started this.
	We would do nothing without you.
	So don't be shy about that ever.
	You deserve all the accolades.
	Congressman, I really appreciate your time.
	I'll talk to you soon.
	Thanks a lot.
	Thanks a lot, Dan.
	All right, folks, stay tuned.
	Coming up next, right after this break, I've got Carter Page coming up.
	We'll be right back.
	Hope you enjoyed that interview with Devin Nunes.
	We got Carter Page coming up in a second, a victim of the Spygate scandal.
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	Now to Carter Page.
	You're going to enjoy this interview.
	Check this out.
	All right.
	As promised, one of the unfortunate victims of the Spygate scandal right here with us on the show, Mr. Carter Page.
	Carter, welcome.
	I want to talk about your new book, Abuse and Power.
	You can see the book behind Carter right there available now, Abuse and Power by Carter Page.
	Thanks for joining us.
	We really appreciate it.
	Thanks for having me, Dan.
	Great to be with you.
	Now, yeah, Carter, we've spoken before.
	I met you at a conference out in L.A.
	for the first time, and I'd always wanted to speak to you.
	You've been a guest on my podcast, actually.
	You know what?
	I just said that Devin Nunes, he's the first two-time guest.
	You're the second two-time.
	I totally forgot.
	You had CPAC we interviewed there.
	So you have this book out now, Abuse and Power.
	You were one of the victims of this Spygate debacle.
	Clearly, our FISA, our system used to spy on terrorists and enemies of the United States was abused to, in fact, spy on you.
	Gain access to your phone records and things like that.
	And the allegation was, ridiculously, that you were a Russian spy.
	Now, I hope you get into a lot of this in your book, but we just found out recently that the FBI lawyer, whose single task was to go and find out from the CIA if your contacts with Russians were on behalf of the CIA, or as a spy, air quotes, that he then doctored the evidence.
	Does your book talk about that?
	How does that make you feel now, now that he's pled guilty to that charge?
	Dan, as you've been saying for many years already, this remains just the tip of the iceberg.
	And on that one particular question in terms of Mr. Clinesmith, believe it or not, I, my, my lawyers were in negotiations with Mr. Clinesmith and I describe all this in the book.
	And unfortunately, this was right around the time in early April 2017.
	And not only were, you know, we had various negotiations going on, but the big thing, and I think what hasn't really been revealed as of yet, is the fact that I was actually getting a ton of death threats at the time.
	And some related to these false news reports that the FBI, it's now been unveiled that, you know, they were all part of this whole conspiracy with the bad actors in the Democrat Party and the media.
	And I informed Mr. Clinesmith, as I also informed several of the counterintelligence agents I was meeting with at the time.
	And unfortunately, apparently, by all accounts, and by all indications, they did nothing about these national security threats, terror threats, that I was up against at the time.
	And not only did they do nothing, it actually continued.
	Because the following week, that was the first week in April 2017, the following week is when they had this blockbuster front page report in the Washington Post revealing, first time, that I had various FISA warrants against me during the Obama-Biden administration.
	Pretty amazing.
	Carter, to be clear, the FISA warrants against you are making allegations that you are in fact a Russian spy for the Russians, a tool for the Russians, and that the Trump campaign is basically using you.
	What makes this so unbelievably offensive is your contacts with Russians, as we now know, We're on behalf of the intelligence infrastructure in this country who asked you to do that in order to nail some of these Russians working in the United States.
	We now know that it's public.
	It's not classified anymore.
	And then you in turn get death threats now because they're alleging you're a Russian spy.
	What's really puzzling about this is From what I know about your story, you attempted to reach out to the FBI to say, hey, I'm doing my patriotic duty.
	I'm not a Russian spy, you idiots.
	And nobody takes you up on the offer?
	Yeah.
	And that was six months earlier.
	I sent a letter to then FBI Director James Comey, of all people, explaining all this.
	And I allude to the fact that I had worked for not only the CIA, but the FBI previously.
	And I said, you know, this is absolutely ridiculous.
	And I called it a witch hunt right at the beginning.
	This is, you know, a couple of months before the last presidential election.
	And I said, if you have any questions whatsoever about this, please do not hesitate to contact me or have your agents who I've known for a long time, come contact me.
	Not only did they not contact me over the next five plus months, they actually kept colluding.
	With the DNC consultant, Christopher Steele, as you talk about in SpyGate.
	Yeah, and just to double down on their lack of curiosity, your offering, just to be crystal clear, to clear this up, hey guys, I'm not a spy, those contacts with the Russians, intel people asked me to do that, I'm not a spy, they don't take that offer.
	Making it even worse, Carter, we've just learned in the Clinesmith plea, Clinesmith's the FBI lawyer who's now pled to doctoring evidence about your work with the CIA, We now know that Clinesmith, in his plea, he managed to snake out of this a little bit, Carter.
	I don't know if you know this and you read the plea, but in the plea he says, well, I may have doctored the evidence that Carter Page was in fact the source for the CIA and saying he was not a source to try and make his context nefarious, but I only did it because I was confused and I didn't really lie about it.
	And what's weird about this, Carter, is the CIA official, who he's communicating with about your work for the CIA in a patriotic mission, the CIA official offers the FBI lawyer, Mr. Clinesmith, the opportunity to clear up your work.
	And what does he do?
	He does the same thing he does to you.
	No thanks.
	Because they wanted to be confused, didn't they?
	Absolutely.
	And you know, the thing that I find, as you say, there's so much more, another example, as you've been saying for years, tip of the iceberg, right?
	Another element, that second page of that same, of the same charging document, in paragraph five, it talks about other people, other members of the Crossfire Hurricane Team.
	And of course, you know, again, they were getting a lot of this same information, and it goes back to your point about a lack of curiosity.
	So I think there are some very big open questions as to who was doing what.
	And so far, you know, as Chairman Grassley, Chairman Graham, Chairman Johnson, and others, and Congressman Nunes, who is on the show, they've been trying to get answers for the last several years.
	It's not really coming out as of yet, so a lot more to learn.
	But again, I try to lay out the basics and all these details of the extraordinary implications and the on-the-ground, first-hand facts.
	In many ways, it's like your first books.
	The inside story as a former Secret Service agent working during Obama.
	Right, right.
	I forget about that.
	Well, you know, I think it builds along well with all the work you've done with Spygate and your other writings, but I think it's important to understand how this all came about and also The huge implication, not just for me, not just for the Trump campaign, and of course, candidate Trump, which this was all aimed at.
	They didn't really care about me.
	They never would have wasted, the DNC wouldn't have wasted two million, millions of dollars to do this entire hoax and, you know, colluding with the media, et cetera.
	But it was all about interfering in the 2016 election, including foreign spies, as you correctly written out and
	helped expose.
	We're going to take a quick break.
	We're talking to Carter Page, author of the new book, Abuse and Power.
	Pick it up today, folks.
	I have an important question for you after this break about Clinesmith as well, because it was another thing he tried to feign confusion on.
	All right, stay tuned, folks.
	We'll be right back after this break.
	Hope you enjoyed my interview with Devin Nunes and the interview with Carter Page.
	If you get the chance, take a look at my new book on this subject, Follow the Money.
	We cover three people specifically in the book who've flown under the radar and their shocking deep state connections.
	Kathy Rumler, the Obama fixer, an FBI agent, and an FBI source inside the White House that have managed to escape scrutiny.
	Their stories are going to blow your mind.
	We also cover the Soros connection in Ukraine in my new book, Follow the money.
	Pick it up today.
	Be coming out October 6th.
	If you pick it up today, it'll be at your door in just a couple of weeks.
	Follow the money.
	Check it out on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, bookstores everywhere.
	Please, I think you're going to enjoy it.
	We put a lot of work into it.
	The Audible version is available on Amazon right now for you to download today and listen to if you'd like to get a head start.
	Really appreciate your support.
	Now back to our interview with Carter Page.
	All right, welcoming back Carter Page, author of the new book, Abuse and Power.
	So Carter, another thing I find puzzling is, again, you've offered the entire time to the FBI in an actual written letter we can all read today.
	Hey, let me clear this up for you.
	I wasn't spying with the Russians.
	I was working with the intel community.
	Thanks, fellas.
	They turned that down.
	They then reach out to the CIA.
	The CIA confirms, yes, we've worked with Carter Page.
	The FBI guy says, oh, I'm confused.
	He wasn't confused.
	He wanted to be confused.
	CIA official says, that's OK.
	I'll unconfuse you.
	How about we get on the phone and talk about it?
	FBI officials say, no good.
	We want to remain confused so we can spy on Carter Page.
	One of the other lines they've used, which I'm sure you're aware, but again, if you read the charging documents, they're pretty damning.
	It's the FBI lawyer who's in touch with the CIA, who's trying to find out if you were a source, and then when he finds out you were, he ignores it.
	He says at one point, or he alludes to the fact that, oh well, they used a digraph, a two-letter designation, as an encrypted kind of insignia for Carter Page, and I can explain to you what the digraph means.
	So of course the FBI says no we don't want to know what the diagraph means because they want to continue to spy on you but it's weird because when they don't make the call on that and find out what the two-letter designation means for you they claim oh we confused that with Carter Page being an unwitting source.
	I have a question for you meaning in other words you were like some dope brought in by the CIA later on.
	That's what they're insisting.
	We got confused that you weren't really a source.
	Were you a witting Or an unwitting source with the CIA.
	In other words, were you willingly working with them, or were they using someone else and you were kind of a carve-out on it?
	I had a long-standing relationship.
	And they talk about this in the IG report of five years that I had worked with them.
	But, you know, my relationship with the CIA goes back To the 90s and and I actually in the in the late 1990s I had a very close contact and a series of contacts through him who you know I did a lot of work which I
	Which I talk about.
	And unfortunately, I was very open.
	It was all about serving my country, trying to help expose and provide assistance on a range of really important, critical national security matters.
	And unfortunately, as we've been talking about, Along the lines of what you're saying, they basically completely flipped it on me.
	And then, you know, the biggest problem related to this, as you've talked about, is the collusion with the media and the fact that all these leaks are happening at exactly the same time.
	And, you know, which then of course leads to all these death threats that unfortunately they did nothing about.
	So just to be clear, because this is unbelievable, the nefarious nature of what they did to you.
	They find out you are a source of information from the CIA.
	They then claim confusion, suggesting you were an unwitting source.
	In other words, that they were working on other people and you just came in and out.
	You didn't even know they were using you for information.
	You're saying categorically today, that is absolutely false.
	You had a documented relationship with these guys.
	It goes back years.
	You were a witting, willing source.
	The CIA knew it and the FBI just ignored that completely?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And I think a lot of this spun out of control during the Obama-Biden administration because, you know, and I think it, And particularly escalated in 2016, given the fact that they just did not like then-candidate Trump.
	And at the core of this entire controversy, Dan, is just a difference of opinion and a difference of worldview in terms of national security matters.
	And unfortunately, you know, as we saw with so many other failures of the Obama-Biden administration, this What then candidate Trump was trying to do in terms of new approaches to foreign policy and new perspectives on what's actually going on in the real world, as opposed to these Washington think tank, you know, conventional wisdom approach, which was characteristic of so many of the failures, not just regarding Russia.
	But again, I worked closely with the CIA and other intelligence agencies Going back decades.
	And unfortunately, it was just a difference of opinion.
	And this is the punishment, right?
	And again, it very much parallels the same crimes and treasonous conduct that President Trump has been dealing with since his first presidential campaign several years ago.
	And I think it's really important that the American voters know about this as we now I agree.
	the next presidential election.
	But I agree risk election interference by the Democrats.
	Yeah. Let me ask you an exit question here.
	Is the FBI anyone from the FBI reached out and tried to make this right?
	I mean they accused you of being a spy for the Russians when you in fact were assisting the United States in what could have been very dangerous for you.
	I mean you're gathering intelligence for our intelligence people and you get smacked in the face by our media called a traitor, treasonous.
	This is really disgusting.
	Has anybody from the FBI reached out and tried to make this right?
	Absolutely not.
	And I actually, I was begging Director Wray.
	I sent him a letter early last year, both in February of 2019, as well as again in May 2019, just asking for some assistance because I had so many problems during the Comey-McCabe years at the FBI that I figured, well, maybe there's this new guy in appointed by President Trump and maybe he will help make this right.
	Not only have they not made it right as of yet, so many of these same stone walls have continued.
	And again, it's terrible in so many ways, but I know a lot of members of Congress, including Congressman Nunes, who you talked to.
	has been pushing for the exact same thing.
	So I guess in some ways, I don't, I don't feel quite as bad, but again, you know, my, my life has been put at risk and so much has been taken away.
	Now, the one silver lining to this is just in the last month or so, DOJ has started to, for the first time, act more professionally.
	There's one law called the Crime Victims Rights Act.
	And that requires people who are crime victims have various steps taken by the U.S.
	Government Department of Justice.
	And for the first time, there is a small sliver of hope and a tiny light at the end of the tunnel.
	And I'm cautiously optimistic that perhaps we may have started to turn the tide a little bit with this, but we'll have to wait.
	As you've been saying, so much more to go.
	Yeah, well, we can get a lot of that story in your book, Abuse and Power.
	Carter, I appreciate it.
	I'm really sorry this happened to you.
	It's really a disgrace and a stain on our country.
	And I hope we can get some more of the story again in your book.
	You shed some light on this.
	Thanks, Carter Page.
	We really appreciate it.
	Thank you again, folks.
	We appreciate it.
	I hope you enjoyed the interview show with Carter here and Devin Nunes.
	We will see you all on Monday.

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