Joe Rogan VS Jordan Peterson: Incels, Game, and Restarting Civilization [Requested Video]
We're caught between two equally unworkable solutions. It's time for vision; for going over; it's time to cut the Gordian Knot of false dichotomies.
Joe Rogan - Jordan Peterson Clarifies His Incels Comment https://youtu.be/jsMqSBB3ZTY
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This is a requested video from Scott, and I almost feel bad taking money for him because this question perfectly crystallizes something that I've been thinking a lot about lately.
See, so often, I'm seeing this time and time again in our civilization.
You've got somebody over here, and they're saying something, and they are completely right about all the points they're making about how civilization needs to do this.
And then you've got somebody over here that's disagreeing with them and saying the opposite, but they're completely right as well.
Both sides are completely right, and yet both sides are completely wrong, and there's no workable solution, and all we're doing is building castles in the sky.
That was the case with this recent conversation between Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson.
They're discussing the incel question, the ugly realities of the sexual market.
Now, on Peterson's side, he was talking about the fact that civilization, if it is a hypergamous, if it's a polygamous civilization, is not sustainable.
When 10% of the guys are getting 80% of the women, the other 90% of guys have no investment in society.
They're not going to work.
They're going to tear it down.
Whether they do it deliberately or whether they just refuse to participate and live minimalist lifestyles, you have a civilization that's collapsing because the men, the majority of men, are not invested in it.
And simultaneously, the women, if it's nine women for every guy, then those women aren't going to get the attention due a wife, do a mother.
It's a system of instability.
And that monogamy, or something close to monogamy, is the ideal situation if you want to have a civilized society where people can actually develop.
Rogan, for his part, he was pointing out the fact that, okay, you enforce monogamy, and now all these guys that are in cells, well, they're getting laid with wives that are disgusted by them.
Because isn't the sexual market, it's a free market.
You're going to have some winners, some losers.
Sadly, you're going to have a lot of losers.
It's a basic Purito principle.
20% of the causes result in 80% of the results.
The Purita principle, it's universal.
And so what, we're going to force all these women to marry men they're not attracted to?
Is that what we're going to do?
Or can we teach these men to be more attractive?
So you can see here that both are right and both are absolutely wrong.
You know, we could talk about this.
We could point out, you know, Catholic social teaching that, you know, the economy exists for the sake of man, for the dignity of mankind.
Man doesn't exist for the economy.
And we need a balance between these extremes.
We don't want a perfectly free market, all right, where 1% get 99% of the wealth.
We want a balanced market, a regulated market, not a socialist market where everything's controlled, but we want some controls on things.
We could talk about that.
We could even talk about the fact that it used to be that you needed to appeal to the father to get the woman.
And so now that you can appeal directly to the woman, you don't have to have a stable income.
You don't have to have a good moral history.
You know, a motorcycle and some tattoos will often be all that you need.
But talking about all these things, all we're doing is building castles in the sky.
All we're doing is saying, you know, they had a better system way back when.
I see absolutely no proposal as to what we are going to do.
How we are going to cut the Gordian knot of this.
Because both these men are right, but they're also wrong, and the whole conversation is irrelevant.
What are we supposed to do?
About the fact that we have 20% of the guys getting 80% of the women, 10%, 90% these days, it seems like, because that is not a stable civilization.
Well, I'll tell you what we're going to do.
See, the issue with Rogan, when he's talking about teaching these guys to be more attractive to women, well, you wind up back at the place where everyone's running faster on the treadmill and they stand in the same place.
It's brutal, but some of these incels talk about how game is only for guys that are seven out of ten or above.
It's brutal, but that's the reality.
Rogan's looking at an individual solution.
Peterson's looking at a societal solution.
I don't care about either of those.
What I'm interested in is organizing.
Rogan, his solution is too individualistic.
In fact, all of our solutions are individualistic.
This whole damn society, we are all atomized individuals, and yet we also have all these organizational social controls.
You're an atomized individual, but if somebody acts against you, you can't go out and punch them in the jaw.
The police will take care of it, or the court system will take care of it.
We've got this anarcho-tyranny.
How do we overcome anarcho-tyranny?
And what we start doing is we start organizing as men.
We are a generation without fathers.
We were never initiated into masculinity.
We were never inducted into male organizations.
Nobody ever came to us and said, hey kid, you got a talent there.
I want you to come join my team so you can learn, so you can apprentice, and you can move up the organization.
Now, here's the one thing Rogan doesn't talk about.
Certainly, teaching men to be masculine, teaching them to have game, etc.
Yes, that's great.
Encouraging them.
He mentions that part.
What he doesn't mention is the status you get for being part of the organization, because he has no organization.
Peterson has the university, but the university doesn't really do anything to make him more masculine.
His recent fame is largely self-achieved, has nothing to do with U of T. Rogan has no society.
His fame, his status, is entirely based upon his own merit.
What we're going to do is we are going to start civilization back up again.
We are going to start it.
And we are going to do that with bands of brothers.
Rule number one is that you have to learn to be a man.
We have boys running around all over the place.
Never taught to be men, never inducted into masculinity.
Many of us have gone out there seeking after it.
Joining the military, picking up chicks, all these proxies for masculinity.
Some of us have used those proxies to get there, to bootstrap ourselves, even though there were no male mentors, no male role models, to actually induct us into it.
What we're going to start doing is not teaching the men to be more attractive, not teaching them game or merely game.
We are going to start demanding that they be men.
We are going to start organizing and forming hierarchies.
Hierarchies that look out for one another.
Not these corporate hierarchies.
Not these hierarchies where you have to utter the shibboleths of your bosses desperately clawing your way out of that bucket full of crabs to get anywhere.
We are going to form hierarchies that actually value the men in them.
We are going to form small hierarchies, small tribes.
We are going to use these organizations to start inducting the young men, the young boys, inducting them into manhood, holding them to standards, setting an example for them, and giving them status because they're associated with this organization.
Who's going to enforce monogamy?
We're going to enforce monogamy.
We're not looking for a handout from anybody else.
We're not looking for some big solution.
No, nothing like that.
We are going to take what we want.
Scott had the right instinct when he said that it used to be that you had to prove yourself to the father before you could get the woman.
So we don't have fathers anymore.
We have absentee landlord fathers.
No, you have to prove yourself to the leader of the tribe before you get to be part of that tribe.
You have to be a man before you get to be part of this organization.
You have to have your act together, and then you join the organization.
Then we give you some of our social value.
We start networking you.
We start making sure that you're doing something productive.
And we start finding stuff productive for you to do.
This is how we cut the Gordian knot.
We start from the basics once more.
The whole civilization, guys, it's not falling apart.
It's already fallen apart.
People have forgotten what civilization is.
And they are constantly locked up into these constant battles.
You know, the Protestants say that the Pope is corrupt.
The Catholics say the Protestants have no tradition or history.
Both are right, and both are wrong.
Neither have the bloody solution.
Show me the last time the Catholic Church actually helped a young boy become a man.
Show me the last time the Catholic Church actually engaged in some sort of pro-civilizational behavior.
Show me the last time anybody did that.
Nobody is doing that, which is why we are going to do that.
And once we do that, once we have those organizations, we're not going to be marching through Charlottesville with a bunch of tiki shirts.
That's the thing.
We're not selling t-shirts.
We are not a slogan or a brand.
Okay?
We are not your source of narcissistic supply.
What we are doing is creating men.
Our civilization hasn't seen real men in any significant number.
We haven't seen them in at least 50 years.
We're going to start creating men again.
And once we create those men, we will get those men wives.
And believe me, the ladies will be absolutely ecstatic over the whole thing.
That is what we're going to be doing.
And it starts with you holding yourself to masculine standards.
Get your act together, wash your balls, as Peterson would say, learn to fight like Joe Rogan.
And then start networking, start forming hierarchies.
This is how we change the world.
Not by begging for scraps or begging somebody else to fix things, but by fixing them ourselves and seizing what we want.
It's the losers that make history, folks.
Romulus and Remus, Charlemagne and his paladins, and us, the most overeducated, wealthy, and unemployed bunch of losers who have ever existed.
We are the ones who will be making the new society.
