The Culture War - Tim Pool - Israel VS Palestine DEBATE, Misfit Patriot VS Rathbone w/ Alex Stein
Aired: 2025-08-29
Duration: 01:58:34


=== Introducing Rathbone, Legendary Debater (03:41) ===

[00:00:01]  Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all ages, welcome to the culture war.
[00:00:05]  We have a very spicy topic today.
[00:00:08]  That's right, Israel versus Palestine.
[00:00:11]  Is there a genocide currently going on in the Gaza Strip?
[00:00:14]  And we have two of the best Shabbos goes in the game to debate this right now.
[00:00:19]  Actually, Rathbone might be Jewish, but before we figure all that out, we have a lot to discuss today.
[00:00:25]  And I know that this topic can get very spicy.
[00:00:27]  So I just encourage everybody to watch us on Rumble as well, because in case for some odd reason these two heathens, you know, get crazy and say something that is YouTube unfriendly, we might have to take the stream down.
[00:00:39]  So we encourage everybody to watch on Rumble.
[00:00:41]  And before we get started, guys, you know who I am.
[00:00:43]  I'm Primetime 99 Alex Stein, Pimbona Blant.
[00:00:46]  I got our co-host Tate Brown today filling in for Tim.
[00:00:48]  We got Kellen on the ones and twos.
[00:00:50]  And then let's introduce our two debaters.
[00:00:53]  We have a guy that has been shut down on TikTok.
[00:00:56]  He's been censored all over the internet.
[00:00:59]  And, you know, his content is actually, you know, I don't even think it's that edgy, to be honest.
[00:01:04]  So with all that being said, I want to introduce Rathbone, legendary, anti-Israel.
[00:01:09]  Is that a way to describe you?
[00:01:10]  How's that to describe you, Rathbone?
[00:01:11]  Legendary works pretty well.
[00:01:13]  Legendary is good.
[00:01:13]  He is legendary.
[00:01:14]  Sure.
[00:01:15]  He is.
[00:01:16]  And describe yourself.
[00:01:17]  Introduce yourself, please.
[00:01:18]  Yeah, my name is Rathbone.
[00:01:19]  I'm a political satirist, musician, teacher, and now I'm a content creator.
[00:01:25]  And I live stream political commentary.
[00:01:29]  And I'm anti-Israel.
[00:01:32]  Yes.
[00:01:32]  You can definitely classify me as anti-Israel.
[00:01:35]  Yeah, but not anti-Semitic, or maybe he is, but we'll let you guys be the judge of that.
[00:01:38]  And then we also have, he's a legend in himself, in the making, a young legend.
[00:01:44]  He's a controversial guy.
[00:01:45]  He loves Israel so much, but he's not Jewish.
[00:01:47]  He's Catholic.
[00:01:48]  With all that being said, we must introduce one, the only Misfit Patriot.
[00:01:51]  Misfit, how are you doing?
[00:01:52]  Tell the audience about yourself, please.
[00:01:55]  Yeah, I don't know.
[00:01:56]  Like, I guess you could call me a contractor that uses the internet to make fun of stupid people.
[00:02:03]  And I just do this as a hobby, but apparently people think that.
[00:02:07]  Not anymore.
[00:02:08]  Do not anymore.
[00:02:09]  It's not a hobby.
[00:02:10]  You are in the Newcast Castle.
[00:02:12]  You are in the big leagues.
[00:02:14]  And today, we also have to introduce Tate.
[00:02:16]  So tell us, Tate, a little bit about yourself and what we've got going on.
[00:02:19]  What's up, everyone?
[00:02:19]  Tim Castor, you'll know me.
[00:02:21]  I've been filling in for Tim on the morning show.
[00:02:23]  For now, he should be back Monday.
[00:02:25]  So it was a temporary gig, but yeah, I'm here to help Alex wrangle these two cats today.
[00:02:30]  Yeah, I'm going to need it.
[00:02:31]  Okay, so I think what we're going to do is we're going to start and give you guys like three to five minutes, however much time you guys need, to kind of give an opening statement.
[00:02:38]  And since you are pro-Israel and right now, let's be honest, a propaganda war is not going in Israel's favor.
[00:02:44]  We're going to give the floor to Misfit Patriot to save Benjamin Netanyahu and this propaganda campaign that they are so desperately failing at.
[00:02:53]  Go ahead, Zach.
[00:02:54]  The floor is yours.
[00:02:55]  Yeah, it's actually, it's no shock that Israel is losing the propaganda war.
[00:02:59]  As I said before, you know, they're outnumbered 151 as far as, let's say, Muslim nations and the people that support them versus Jews and the people that support Israel.
[00:03:11]  So when people make the argument that because they're losing, let's say, support online or support, you know, in polling, it's really like, that's kind of like, yeah, no shit.
[00:03:24]  So I don't know how you really fix that.

=== Why Palestine Matters (15:43) ===

[00:03:27]  I think that you sort of ignore that and just do what you need to do.
[00:03:32]  And everyone says that I'm like a huge staunch supporter of Israel when I'm not.
[00:03:36]  I say this all the time.
[00:03:37]  I'm perfectly fine with them doing whatever they need to do to protect their nation.
[00:03:43]  I think that they have a right to exist.
[00:03:44]  Obviously, I think New Zealand has a right to exist.
[00:03:47]  I think that Ireland has a right to exist.
[00:03:49]  As far as nation states go, if my country was attacked, let's say Mexico came in and raped and murdered like 1,200 people and beheaded, beat a bunch of people and filmed it and put it on Telegram and we didn't go and freaking destroy that nation, I would think that we would be a huge failure.
[00:04:07]  So the argument that Israel should not be doing what they're doing, I would argue, is silly because we have so many historical examples.
[00:04:18]  I mean, World War II and a bunch of different things that we could point to as to why they should.
[00:04:25]  But as far as this debate goes, I don't know much about my opponent.
[00:04:28]  I don't know exactly where he aligns ideologically, but he is anti-Israel.
[00:04:35]  I'm Israel neutral.
[00:04:37]  I'm very pro-Jew.
[00:04:39]  I'm very pro-Zionism.
[00:04:40]  I'm very pro-anti-Islamic radical terrorism.
[00:04:47]  So I would take my arguments to him from three points, right?
[00:04:51]  Are you making a political, moral, or theological argument?
[00:04:54]  If you're making a moral argument, my question would be, why don't you make the same argument about other conflicts, which I don't know if he does.
[00:05:03]  If you're making a political argument, I'd ask you to make your case without making an argument for morality because politics and morality kind of don't align.
[00:05:09]  And if you're making a theological argument, I'll ask you to make your argument without arguing politically because we're going to be talking about theological.
[00:05:15]  I think what people do is they conflate all of these issues and try to make this soup of theological, moral, political when there's conflicting narratives.
[00:05:24]  And that's my biggest gripe with the people that argue against Israel.
[00:05:29]  Are you arguing against the Jews?
[00:05:30]  Are you arguing against a nation state with a government that has 120 people in it?
[00:05:35]  Because if you're making those arguments, I can pick them apart pretty easily.
[00:05:39]  That's good.
[00:05:39]  Three minutes.
[00:05:40]  Okay.
[00:05:41]  I said a lot, a lot of interesting things.
[00:05:43]  Now the floor is yours.
[00:05:44]  Rathbon, what do you say?
[00:05:45]  Okay, well, it's not really about what I or you believe or think.
[00:05:51]  International institutions are arrayed against Israel at this point.
[00:05:56]  They are condemning Israel.
[00:05:59]  Every relevant authority that pertains to diplomacy, international laws, humanitarian laws, condemn Israel for the illegal occupation.
[00:06:09]  For me, it's the principal contradiction between an occupied people and an occupying army and occupying force.
[00:06:17]  That is the legal distinction that's being made.
[00:06:20]  And I am simply transmitting those facts, sharing that information with you, because it's not about what I personally believe or feel.
[00:06:29]  It's about what international institutions believe.
[00:06:33]  And, you know, we can go into the details, you know, further.
[00:06:41]  But at this point, they've lost the public opinion.
[00:06:46]  They've lost, and I'm part of that overwhelming majority of the public opinion that believes that Israel is an apartheid ethno-state committing a mass atrocity.
[00:06:55]  Yes, it is a genocide.
[00:06:57]  And I think the evidence of that is very clear.
[00:07:01]  So, you know, I'm happy to go into it further, but I disagree with basically everything you just said.
[00:07:09]  Yeah.
[00:07:10]  You know, I mean, that's not surprising.
[00:07:12]  It's not about Jews.
[00:07:14]  It's about the nations.
[00:07:15]  Like you said, you can't be Israel neutral and then pro-Zionist.
[00:07:20]  Okay.
[00:07:20]  I would argue you can.
[00:07:22]  Okay.
[00:07:22]  Well, you can't because Israel is pro-Zionist.
[00:07:25]  And if you are just saying, well, I'm just going to stay neutral, you are preserving the status quo.
[00:07:31]  You're preserving the inherent violence of this settler colony that is ethnically cleansing a land that is an indigenous majority of Palestinians, Muslims, however you want to classify them.
[00:07:46]  They're not Jewish, and Israel is trying to establish a Jewish demographic majority in a land that is not demographically majority Jewish.
[00:07:55]  So what do they have to do?
[00:07:57]  They have to ethnically cleanse and massacre every single non-Jew in order to establish first right, first-rate citizenship for Jewish people.
[00:08:12]  And that's abominable.
[00:08:15]  That's deplorable.
[00:08:16]  It shouldn't have no place in modern society, and we should reject it and rebuke it and detest it outright.
[00:08:23]  That was good opening statements.
[00:08:24]  Tate, what do you want to say on this before we go into our first kind of topic?
[00:08:28]  Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, fundamentally, my position is America First, not America only.
[00:08:33]  I mean, obviously, American foreign policy is to be realistic.
[00:08:36]  You're going to engage with other powers.
[00:08:39]  I mean, there is, yeah, there is a moral concern, obviously, with Israel's actions and the region, broadly speaking.
[00:08:46]  But then there also is, I mean, a case to be made for a Jewish state, right?
[00:08:51]  I mean, after the circumstances of the 20th century.
[00:08:54]  So, yeah, I mean, I understand the case both ways, but I do agree that I don't think people's opinion is turning on Israel purely because of propaganda.
[00:09:04]  I do think their actions in the region are a bit concerning, and specifically the United States, I think, to some degree is in violation of our America First policy of the Trump administration.
[00:09:14]  People have concerns over that.
[00:09:15]  Yeah, no, I agree with that wholeheartedly.
[00:09:17]  And, you know, I want to go back to a day and age when Jews made movies and not used bombs on churches.
[00:09:23]  You know, that's what they're better at.
[00:09:25]  You know, like Jewish people are obviously very talented.
[00:09:28]  They're very smart.
[00:09:29]  They're very successful.
[00:09:31]  But when they tell me that they accidentally bombed a church or that they accidentally bombed a hospital on live TV, I just think that they're too smart and too talented to make those mistakes.
[00:09:40]  So for me, why I'm starting to, I guess, get not radicalized against Israel.
[00:09:46]  I support Israel's right, obviously.
[00:09:48]  But I'm just getting very frustrated because every single thing that we see on TV or on the internet makes it almost impossible to defend.
[00:09:54]  So I'm happy that we're having this conversation.
[00:09:56]  So the first thing that I want to talk about, and you brought it up, Rathbone, is that, and Misfit, I want to get your opinion.
[00:10:03]  Benjamin Netanyahu is considered by the UN to be a war criminal.
[00:10:08]  So why does the UN have a different opinion of him than Donald Trump?
[00:10:13]  And how guilty is he if they think he's a war criminal and obviously America doesn't?
[00:10:18]  Well, the UN had, what, 12 of their employees that were caught enacting the terrorist event of October 7th.
[00:10:27]  So I don't think the UN is the best source for morality.
[00:10:30]  Like, you know, I don't have a condemnation of other people for doing things.
[00:10:33]  The UN is, it's an organization that I would say has an agenda that is totally anti-American.
[00:10:40]  They want to globalize.
[00:10:43]  It's essentially the new world order, right?
[00:10:45]  So I don't take anything that they say seriously.
[00:10:47]  They can give fuck themselves.
[00:10:49]  My brother in Christ, the UN was created by the United States.
[00:10:53]  Yeah, but they're anti-American.
[00:10:54]  It's like, it doesn't matter if they created it.
[00:10:56]  The UN, no, the UN.
[00:10:59]  Frankenstein was created, but he tried to kill everybody.
[00:11:02]  It's a silly argument to say it was created by the United States, therefore it's pro-American, right?
[00:11:08]  They are anti-American.
[00:11:09]  They support the same people that are.
[00:11:11]  It's not about being anti-American or pro-American.
[00:11:14]  It's just that this is the international institution set up by the world superpower post-World War II.
[00:11:19]  The United States, the global hegemon, created the UN to administer international diplomacy to create peaceful settlements.
[00:11:32]  That was the reason it was to prevent genocides.
[00:11:36]  It was to prevent war crimes.
[00:11:38]  They were supposed to be UN genocides, but their own employees were trying to commit one on October 7th.
[00:11:44]  I still, I feel like you're going to make a baseless claim like that.
[00:11:47]  You're going to have to back it up.
[00:11:48]  Look it up.
[00:11:49]  They've already been looked up.
[00:11:51]  They had fired.
[00:11:52]  They had gotten rid of the employees.
[00:11:54]  Pull it up on the screen.
[00:11:55]  UN employees.
[00:11:58]  It's completely gutted by Israel.
[00:12:00]  There are no UN workers in Gaza in Palestine because Israel has completely destroyed.
[00:12:08]  What's about to pop up on the screen is probably going to shock you if you've never heard this before, but the UN had literal employees.
[00:12:13]  It doesn't matter, though.
[00:12:13]  You see that?
[00:12:14]  No, it doesn't matter.
[00:12:15]  The point.
[00:12:15]  No, no, no.
[00:12:16]  The point is, is because you're going to pearl clutch about October 7th as a terrorist attack when we know.
[00:12:25]  When we know that Israel is a terrorist state and that the original act of aggression goes back to the occupation.
[00:12:34]  And that's why in my opening statement, I said the principal contradiction here is occupied people versus an occupying force.
[00:12:42]  How can you occupy your own country?
[00:12:44]  Because you don't understand international laws.
[00:12:45]  No, no, no.
[00:12:46]  How do you know?
[00:12:46]  Don't occupy humanitarian laws.
[00:12:48]  Is Palestine a country?
[00:12:50]  Absolutely, it's a country.
[00:12:51]  Who's considered a country?
[00:12:52]  Who's the president?
[00:12:53]  Where does he live?
[00:12:55]  The fact that Israel has socially engineered it to be a rump state, basically, without an administrating force or an administrating body is not a point in your favor.
[00:13:09]  What's the currency?
[00:13:10]  What's the currency in Palestine?
[00:13:12]  What's the what?
[00:13:12]  What's the currency in Palestine?
[00:13:14]  Where are there any buildings in Palestine?
[00:13:16]  Do you know what the currency is?
[00:13:17]  Where are there any infrastructure?
[00:13:18]  Where is there any education?
[00:13:20]  Where are there any schools?
[00:13:20]  Where is there anything?
[00:13:21]  What is Palestine?
[00:13:22]  Do you know this?
[00:13:22]  Do you know the answer to this question?
[00:13:24]  What is the currency in Palestine?
[00:13:28]  You do not know this.
[00:13:29]  Well, they have a currency, though.
[00:13:30]  It could still be a genocide.
[00:13:32]  Hold on, I mean, like, it's a completely different point.
[00:13:36]  These people are occupied.
[00:13:37]  They don't have to say whether or not Palestine is a country.
[00:13:42]  Let's focus on that point.
[00:13:43]  Is Palestine a country?
[00:13:44]  What's their currency?
[00:13:46]  It doesn't matter what.
[00:13:47]  It matters.
[00:13:48]  Absolutely.
[00:13:50]  They are a country.
[00:13:51]  They are a country that has been recognized by the international community as having been a sovereign territory.
[00:13:58]  They are being denied their human rights.
[00:13:59]  Canada did recognize them.
[00:14:01]  They are being denied human rights.
[00:14:04]  They're denied having a currency.
[00:14:06]  They're denied having trade.
[00:14:08]  They're denied having an economy.
[00:14:10]  Does America, the number one superpower in the world, recognize Palestine as a country?
[00:14:15]  the united states does not okay so you can say that some person recognizes it and you can say that some person no no no no you don't Don't say some person.
[00:14:23]  We're talking about, remember, let's go back to the UN.
[00:14:24]  All right, hold on, no, no, no, no.
[00:14:25]  191 countries recognize that Palestine is a country.
[00:14:31]  Oh, now you don't give a shit.
[00:14:32]  What the world community is?
[00:14:33]  Even American, my country.
[00:14:34]  No, it's just what America thinks.
[00:14:35]  My country doesn't recognize that.
[00:14:38]  My country doesn't recognize that country.
[00:14:39]  Right, right.
[00:14:40]  So try not to speak at the same time.
[00:14:41]  I know this is going to happen a little bit, but let's try to get that.
[00:14:43]  Let's get back.
[00:14:45]  Let's break this down.
[00:14:46]  I'm going to simplify.
[00:14:47]  If Palestine is a country, right?
[00:14:49]  What makes them a country?
[00:14:52]  I'll tell you what makes them the country.
[00:14:53]  It's what the ICJ advisory ruling opinion established in 2004, okay?
[00:14:59]  In 2004, the ICJ established that the Palestinian people do in fact exist.
[00:15:05]  The second thing that they said was that the territorial unit belonging to Palestine is the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem.
[00:15:14]  So it's a territory.
[00:15:16]  No, the territorial unit that is those three territories that are those three territories, that makes up the sovereign country of Palestine.
[00:15:25]  All three of those territories are occupied by Israel under international law going back to 1967.
[00:15:34]  UN Resolution 242, which gets voted on every year and it is vetoed by the only world superpower.
[00:15:42]  The United States and Israel both veto the UN Resolution 242, which is unanimously agreed upon by the world community.
[00:15:51]  What is the national?
[00:15:52]  What is the national?
[00:15:53]  Real quick, real quick.
[00:15:54]  This argument, though, is kind of frustrating because, like, there's even small tribes off of islands of Indonesia, and they don't have a currency.
[00:16:00]  They don't have anything.
[00:16:01]  And Australia, Indonesia, the main countries that they're connected to, will do whatever they can to preserve.
[00:16:05]  They'll be Australians.
[00:16:08]  What I'm saying is they're actually not a part of their government.
[00:16:10]  But I'm saying just because they don't have a government doesn't mean that they don't have a right to exist.
[00:16:14]  Palestine is a place.
[00:16:16]  It's a place.
[00:16:16]  That's what I'm saying.
[00:16:17]  Palestine has Palestinians, right?
[00:16:19]  But if you say, I live in Texas, I am a Texan, right?
[00:16:24]  I'm not in the country of Texas.
[00:16:26]  I am in the state of Texas.
[00:16:27]  Palestine is a state in Israel.
[00:16:29]  It's a region, a territory in Israel.
[00:16:31]  Their currency is the shekel.
[00:16:33]  There's Hebrew written on their money, right?
[00:16:36]  They are Egyptian and Jordanian-originated people that would, one would argue, are the actual settlers, right?
[00:16:45]  So if you look at even the name Palestine, where did it come from?
[00:16:49]  Who named it?
[00:16:50]  The British named it Mandatory Palestine, obtained from the League of Nations in 1920 until 1948, right?
[00:16:56]  And they got that name from a territory in the Ottoman Empire, right?
[00:16:59]  Why did they name it Palestine?
[00:17:01]  The Philistines were a group of people who lived on the south coast of Canaan during the Iron Age.
[00:17:04]  They were an immigrant group from the Aegean civilization in Greece.
[00:17:08]  Look, I understand the Bronze Age.
[00:17:09]  Hold on.
[00:17:10]  Remember Goliath from the Bible?
[00:17:11]  Philistine, right?
[00:17:13]  Philistine, Palestine.
[00:17:14]  It was named that as an insult to the Jewish people because when the nation state of Israel was created in 1948, they agreed on a territory.
[00:17:21]  What happened in 1948?
[00:17:23]  Are you saying that Goliath was Palestinian?
[00:17:24]  Is that what you're saying?
[00:17:26]  Yes, he's a Philistine.
[00:17:27]  A Nephilim giant.
[00:17:28]  Philistine.
[00:17:29]  Well, that kind of makes Palestine more badass, right?
[00:17:32]  I think David's more badass because he killed him with a fucking thing.
[00:17:35]  David, I'm just saying, if you're a big giant, too, that's cool.
[00:17:37]  I mean, you know, there's something kind of cool about Goliath.
[00:17:40]  My point is, it's not a country just because some countries say it is.
[00:17:45]  You have to go through actual steps and you have to become an actual country.
[00:17:49]  And they're not an actual country.
[00:17:51]  You want them to be a country.
[00:17:52]  That doesn't change anything.
[00:17:53]  They are not a country.
[00:17:54]  They're not a country because the world superpowers.
[00:17:57]  They just agreed that they're not a country.
[00:17:58]  Okay, but they agree that they're not a country.
[00:18:00]  Don't take my words out of my mouth out of context.
[00:18:03]  Come on.
[00:18:03]  I understand you're in your feelings, but international.
[00:18:05]  I'm sorry.
[00:18:05]  No, no, no.
[00:18:06]  Go ahead.
[00:18:06]  Go ahead.
[00:18:06]  No, it's your thing.
[00:18:07]  I'm just saying, regardless if they're a country or not, that doesn't negate the fact that a genocide is probably happening.
[00:18:14]  Thanks, man.
[00:18:15]  How is a genocide happening?
[00:18:16]  I mean, I'll let you guys debate that.
[00:18:17]  I'm just saying, regardless of whether they have a currency or not.
[00:18:20]  How is there a genocide going on in Gaza?
[00:18:22]  What is a genocide?
[00:18:23]  A genocide is the systematic, right, intentional killing of a people group of ethnicity, religion, or origin.
[00:18:31]  It is not anti-terrorism.
[00:18:33]  It is not trying to kill Hamas.
[00:18:35]  Because if you throw leaflets down and tell people, get the fuck out of there, if you drop more bombs than you kill civilians, then that's not a genocide.
[00:18:43]  If you're vaccinating the same people that you're trying to, genocide.
[00:18:45]  If you have people that you're trying to genocide in your government, working, living in your fucking country, it's not a genocide.
[00:18:52]  You can't call it a genocide when they're doing such a bad job at it.

=== Why Gaza Isn't Japan (03:47) ===

[00:18:56]  Israel could commit a genocide tomorrow.
[00:18:59]  Really a silly argument to make for the simple fact that you can look at the Gaza Strip right now and 90 to 95% of it is reduced to rubble.
[00:19:11]  The IDF has internally reported that at least 83% of the people that are killed in Gaza are civilians and not combatants.
[00:19:25]  Excuse me.
[00:19:26]  This has been admitted by Israeli officials who have made public statements that have acknowledged that, yes, they are committed to wholesale destruction of the Gaza Strip.
[00:19:36]  That shows genocidal intent.
[00:19:37]  And indeed, when you look at the Gaza Strip, you can see the destruction of an entire civilization.
[00:19:43]  They have been removed from their place of origin, from their homes, transferred to the southern part of the Gaza Strip.
[00:19:53]  That's a war crime already, okay?
[00:19:56]  They are being systematically targeted because as they're being starved, they're being lured into these bait food traps where they're shot down.
[00:20:07]  And by God, if they are given flour, they'll have drugs in it.
[00:20:12]  You know, they'll be laced with poison.
[00:20:14]  Where are you even getting that?
[00:20:15]  Okay, first of all, I get it from...
[00:20:17]  Your argument that it looks like a wasteland, right?
[00:20:21]  You can pull up a picture right now of what Japan looked like after- Japan is the- Hold on- That was the Imperial Empire of Japan!
[00:20:27]  It's not an occupied country.
[00:20:29]  Okay, but Palestine is an occupied country.
[00:20:32]  You pull up pictures of Dresden.
[00:20:33]  You pull up pictures.
[00:20:34]  Japan was starting wars with the United States.
[00:20:37]  Like, they had a military.
[00:20:38]  They had an artifact.
[00:20:41]  Palestine has been systematically deinstitutionalized, de-developed by Israel for decades.
[00:20:47]  So you said that Japan looked at the state.
[00:20:49]  It's not a fair argument.
[00:20:50]  So you said that the reason Japan looks like Gaza is because Japan started a war with the United States.
[00:20:55]  And that's why it looks like Germany.
[00:20:56]  No, I'm not defending your Hiroshima bombing that you're just saying, oh, what about when they dropped a nuclear bomb?
[00:21:02]  They killed 100,000 civilians.
[00:21:06]  Was Hiroshima a genocide?
[00:21:07]  Or was this?
[00:21:08]  Yes.
[00:21:08]  Was it a necessary military?
[00:21:10]  Yes, it was absolutely a genocide.
[00:21:12]  Prevent Japan from wholesale destruction of entire cities.
[00:21:16]  It's a lot of genocide.
[00:21:17]  And it killed hundreds of thousands of civilians.
[00:21:19]  It's not a genocide.
[00:21:20]  That is genocide in whole or in part.
[00:21:22]  Was Operation Gomorrah a genocide?
[00:21:25]  When the U.S. and the Royal Air Force bombed Hamburg, Germany, specifically targeting civilian areas in order to break the Nazi regime, 9,000 tons of bombs were dropped, right?
[00:21:39]  And what happened?
[00:21:40]  It demoralized the Germans because when you were in a war, when you are in a war, the way you solve a war is you make it untenable for the other side to continue.
[00:21:52]  That's the untenable.
[00:21:53]  If the thing that those people care about is their infrastructure, their buildings, their civilian population, whatever, that's what happens.
[00:21:59]  Is there a genocide going on in Ukraine, in Russia, or is that two fucking people fighting because one of them started a fucking war?
[00:22:08]  And this is what you fucking people don't understand.
[00:22:11]  You keep using the word genocide.
[00:22:12]  You keep on trying to hammer it into people's heads.
[00:22:14]  It's not a fucking genocide just because you say it is.
[00:22:17]  There is a specific- You're right, it's not- It's not a genocide because I say it is.
[00:22:21]  It's a genocide because that is what international institutions have concluded.
[00:22:25]  Well, these are ex-hearted and so on.
[00:22:27]  People that are devoted to studying this and investigating this, this is what they say.

=== Hannibal Directive Misconceptions (13:14) ===

[00:22:33]  Well, appeal to authorities.
[00:22:36]  Actually, it's actually happening because we have iPhones now.
[00:22:39]  Israel is not going to survive.
[00:22:41]  You have the age of the internet and the iPhones, okay?
[00:22:44]  Just like Jeffrey Epstein wasn't able to survive.
[00:22:46]  I think he does have a good point, though, that the internet is hurting their cause right now.
[00:22:50]  Because even though your arguments are going to be, well, Palestine is running a great propaganda campaign.
[00:22:55]  I saw Megan Kelly say that.
[00:22:56]  And for me, that is so dumb to think that people in caves or, you know, literally in tunnels are running some strategic marketing campaign that is making Israel look bad.
[00:23:07]  It's Muslim.
[00:23:08]  It's the entire world.
[00:23:10]  Well, I know you could say Qatar.
[00:23:12]  But to that point, though, why won't Jordan, and this is, I guess, to you, Rathbone, I am of the opinion these people should get a free house somewhere, maybe in Jordan or Egypt.
[00:23:22]  But Jordan and Egypt don't really want to take the Palestinians.
[00:23:25]  They already have.
[00:23:26]  I'm saying they've taken a lot.
[00:23:27]  I know there's already millions of people.
[00:23:28]  I'm saying, how do we, because we are going to keep arguing this, how do we solve this?
[00:23:31]  Because you and I are both not naive enough to think that Israel's ever going to stop.
[00:23:35]  You know that they're never going to stop.
[00:23:36]  I think you would argue that they're now after October 7th.
[00:23:40]  It's only going to get more intense.
[00:23:42]  So I guess, like, what do you think the solution is?
[00:23:45]  I think the solution is just what's going to happen, which is that Israel is suffering a cultural death right now.
[00:23:50]  It is dying on the world stage.
[00:23:51]  Public opinion has completely shifted.
[00:23:53]  There's no way that's tenable in the long term.
[00:23:56]  And that's the cultural death precedes the economic death.
[00:23:59]  Eventually, there just won't be as much immigration to Israel.
[00:24:03]  People have already left.
[00:24:04]  There's a whole side of this other story that doesn't get reported because.
[00:24:07]  Tarantino just left.
[00:24:08]  He was living there and just left because of all this stuff.
[00:24:10]  He's one of their biggest sexists.
[00:24:11]  I didn't know that.
[00:24:11]  Yeah, no, he just left.
[00:24:12]  Him and his wife just left.
[00:24:13]  People don't want to do business getting bombed.
[00:24:16]  And when you start wars with seven other countries, when you are belligerent and aggressive against everyone else in the region, people tend not to want to do business with you.
[00:24:28]  It's the same thing that happened in Saudi Arabia with Yemen.
[00:24:30]  They were embroiled in a civil war.
[00:24:33]  Saudi Arabia was bombing Yemen.
[00:24:35]  Yemen was actually retaliating against Saudi Arabia.
[00:24:38]  Saudi Arabia wants to be a global hub for capitalism, wants to be a good trading partner for Western European countries and the United States.
[00:24:48]  And they can't do that when they're getting bombed.
[00:24:51]  And nobody wants to do business with people that are, you know, their investments aren't safe, you know?
[00:24:58]  Well, that's why it's a really, really good plan for Donald Trump to take over the Gaza Strip and turn it into some type of Abrahamic Accord-related hub of trade and currency.
[00:25:14]  He said he's going to build margarita.
[00:25:15]  Well, think about it like that.
[00:25:16]  Wow, that's so brave of you.
[00:25:17]  Hold on, but think about this.
[00:25:19]  Think about it.
[00:25:20]  Can you imagine if the Ayatollah Khomeini said anything about like, I don't know, Washington, D.C., we should just pave over Washington, D.C.
[00:25:27]  And yeah, it's not going to happen, right?
[00:25:29]  Because they don't posture towards us in the Western hemisphere the way that we possibly can horrible amounts of side.
[00:25:38]  Imagine if I spoke with the opposition leader to the King of Jordan, and he was talking about how they'd love to welcome in more Palestinians.
[00:25:48]  Egypt doesn't want them because a lot of Palestinians are supporters of Hamas, right?
[00:25:52]  And they need to go somewhere.
[00:25:54]  If you are Hamas or a supporter of Hamas, sorry, you have lost your right to be there.
[00:25:59]  So you're talking about the right to live.
[00:26:02]  You don't lose your right to.
[00:26:02]  You I would argue that well you I would argue that if you are if you are partaking in and kill all the Muslims If you are partaking in your regular kids, if you are a supporter of Hamas.
[00:26:15]  I'm satirizing him.
[00:26:17]  If you are saying that I agree with Hamas and I would like Hamas to continue what they're doing, I would argue, no, you don't have a right to live.
[00:26:26]  You're fucking, no.
[00:26:27]  After what they did, I mean, imagine if our government did what Hamas did.
[00:26:32]  Imagine if the American military went into Mexico, cut people's heads off, and set people on fire.
[00:26:39]  Misfit, real quick, though, we do have a clear example, though.
[00:26:41]  America fought a war in the Middle East that killed millions of Muslims.
[00:26:45]  And at the end of the day, they told us that this was a war on terror and they had to eradicate the Taliban.
[00:26:50]  But we all saw that the Taliban is still in power in Afghanistan, right?
[00:26:54]  I'm just saying there was a time and everybody had the same sentiment as you that every Taliban person deserved to be six feet under.
[00:26:59]  And now we know that our country, that's not necessarily true.
[00:27:02]  We actually kind of worked with the Taliban.
[00:27:04]  So to quote my favorite retarded comedian, Dave Smith, that's a non-argument, right?
[00:27:08]  Because it's not the same thing.
[00:27:12]  The war in Iraq was a huge mistake, and it was a political war.
[00:27:16]  It was an operation through George Bush's narcissism that did that.
[00:27:21]  This is an ideological war.
[00:27:23]  It is not a political war.
[00:27:25]  It's not a war between two, I would say, dictators who are fighting over land.
[00:27:31]  These people, not the Palestinians, all of them, but any supporter of Hamas wants to fucking wipe off the map, every single Jew, every single Israeli, every single Zionist.
[00:27:42]  And when they're done, they want to come to America and do the same thing.
[00:27:45]  It is a radicalized ideology that hates everything about the West, hates everything about Christianity, hates everything about Judaism.
[00:27:53]  They want to impose Sharia law all over the world, and they're doing a damn good job of it.
[00:27:57]  Because if you look at the UK, you look at the rape statistics in Germany, you look at everything going on in Europe right now, it's becoming a fucking problem.
[00:28:05]  So what I would say Israel has not only the right, but the duty to do is to make sure there is not a single Hamas member or a single Hamas supporter left in Israel, left in Gaza, left in the West Bank, left in anywhere fucking near them.
[00:28:23]  Because if they are, they're just going to do this again.
[00:28:28]  So I think that I would love to hear this support on my one point.
[00:28:34]  Do you agree that Hamas is a terrorist organization?
[00:28:37]  No.
[00:28:38]  You are fucking retarded.
[00:28:39]  Okay.
[00:28:40]  Well, I'd like to hear why isn't Hamas because everybody does.
[00:28:43]  Because Hamas is an armed resistance group fighting against an occupying army.
[00:28:48]  How can you occupy your own country?
[00:28:50]  If Israel wasn't occupying the land of Palestine, creating and fomenting and fermenting in the soil of repression a radical extremist group, like you want to call it, a radical extremist.
[00:29:01]  When you sideline, fracture, marginalize every possible peaceful chance to reform and have ownership and control over your resources, your land and labor, which is your given right according to international law, then you are left with the only option, which is to violently resist.
[00:29:20]  You think that's a good question.
[00:29:21]  And let me ask you this.
[00:29:22]  Let me ask you this.
[00:29:23]  If you think that Hamas is a terrorist organization, was the Jewish resistance in the Warsaw ghetto, were they terrorists when they tried to upset their Nazi oppressors.
[00:29:39]  Because that's the same exact material power defense.
[00:29:42]  That's the biggest false equivalency that I've ever seen.
[00:29:44]  I don't know.
[00:29:44]  I mean, I really.
[00:29:46]  Is that a bad false equivalency?
[00:29:47]  I feel like he's unbiased because if you are in the Jewish ghetto and you're fighting against the Nazis, you would consider them a hero today.
[00:29:53]  To be fair, like they were targeting soldiers where with Hamas, there's more deliberate attacks within the future.
[00:30:00]  They did attack civilians.
[00:30:02]  They did kill indiscriminately.
[00:30:04]  They made rudimentary makeshift weapons, which were imprecise.
[00:30:09]  They mustered, they marshaled any capabilities that they could to violently resist their own annihilation, which they knew.
[00:30:16]  And did they think that that was going to be successful for them?
[00:30:20]  Of course not.
[00:30:21]  They knew that they were going to die.
[00:30:23]  They knew that the Nazis were going to.
[00:30:24]  So what was the point of that violence?
[00:30:27]  Why didn't they just lay down and die for the Nazis?
[00:30:30]  If that's your argument, why wouldn't they just do that?
[00:30:33]  In your scenario here, the Nazis are Israel and the Jews are Hamas.
[00:30:43]  Yes.
[00:30:44]  In World War II.
[00:30:45]  Hold on.
[00:30:45]  Now, did the Jews in Warsaw occupy Germany or sorry, march into Germany and murder and rape a bunch of people?
[00:30:54]  Did they set people on fire?
[00:30:56]  No, and neither did Hamas.
[00:30:58]  Yes, they did.
[00:30:59]  No, they didn't.
[00:30:59]  You're repeating.
[00:31:00]  Hold on, I'm repeating.
[00:31:01]  Did you repeating that?
[00:31:02]  Did you watch the footage on October 7th?
[00:31:04]  I did.
[00:31:04]  Did you see it?
[00:31:06]  Did you see when you when you saw when you saw hand gliders parasailing over an apartheid wall?
[00:31:11]  When you saw bulldozers bulldozing through an apartheid wall, did you think that that was the Wehrmacht?
[00:31:16]  When you heard the soldiers destroy Israel?
[00:31:19]  Are you fucking out of your mind?
[00:31:20]  When you heard the terrorist calling his parents, like, I killed 10 Jews, I killed 10 Jews, that's resistance.
[00:31:26]  Have you watched the documentary?
[00:31:27]  Are you talking about most of the people that were killed on that day were killed by Israel according to their Hannibal directive?
[00:31:34]  Oh, daddy, do you know what the Hannibal director?
[00:31:36]  According to an Israeli publication, let's talk about that.
[00:31:38]  That's where I was trying to get to.
[00:31:39]  You know, you know what the Hannibal Directive is?
[00:31:42]  Of course I know what the Hannibal is.
[00:31:43]  What is the Hannibal Directive?
[00:31:44]  The Hannibal Directive is for the directive that says that IDF is going to kill its own civilians.
[00:31:51]  Nope.
[00:31:51]  Yes.
[00:31:54]  in order to avoid a political scenario.
[00:31:58]  Pull up the Hannibal Directive and tell me if it applies to...
[00:32:00]  It is a little vague, but there are different...
[00:32:01]  This is the one thing, and I'm not even trying to be on Rathbone's side.
[00:32:04]  There is different interpretations of it because it's like a military directive.
[00:32:07]  But if we're just being honest, they did use it on that day.
[00:32:10]  And whether they killed civilians.
[00:32:12]  14 civilians.
[00:32:13]  I think the IDF.
[00:32:14]  14 civilians caught in the crossfire.
[00:32:16]  That's what they say.
[00:32:17]  And obviously the numbers can be aligned.
[00:32:19]  The actual Hannibal Directive prevents the intentional killing of a civilian.
[00:32:23]  It only applies to IDF soldiers to protect military intelligence if they are being taken hostage by the enemy.
[00:32:29]  So you just concede the point that they are allowed to kill their own.
[00:32:32]  No, they're not allowed to.
[00:32:33]  If they kill a civilian intentionally, then it's a war crime.
[00:32:38]  It will be.
[00:32:40]  You made it sound like the Hannibal.
[00:32:42]  Hold on.
[00:32:42]  You made it sound like the Hannibal Directive says, kill anybody you want for any reason, including civilians.
[00:32:47]  That's not what the Hannibal Directive is.
[00:32:49]  The Hannibal Directive is a directive that pretty much every military has, where if you have a soldier that's being taken captive, you can take out the soldier because let's say they have sensitive information.
[00:33:00]  Let's say they have military intelligence that you don't want to get.
[00:33:02]  And you don't want to give them leverage and negotiation.
[00:33:04]  That is not.
[00:33:04]  So the Hannibal Directive talking point is being parroted by people who don't know what it is.
[00:33:09]  Well, on October 7th, they instituted the Hannibal Directive and then they used Apache gunship helicopters.
[00:33:16]  That's where that's slowed down.
[00:33:18]  You do have to admit that.
[00:33:21]  Real quick, guys, we're talking about this modern warfare where they're at a music festival.
[00:33:24]  So, Zach, I think that you would be very naive to think that if they're using a Black Hawk helicopter, that it would be very possible that a civilian could get hit.
[00:33:31]  You know what I mean?
[00:33:32]  Like, obviously, civilians got hit.
[00:33:34]  What footage you're referring to of the Black Hawk helicopter, what day was that from?
[00:33:39]  I'm talking about October 7th.
[00:33:41]  You're talking about October 7th.
[00:33:43]  I know what footage is.
[00:33:44]  And I'm talking about publications.
[00:33:46]  I'm referring to.
[00:33:46]  I'm talking about publications that have reported, according to the IDF, that the majority of the civilians that were killed on October 7th.
[00:33:54]  What publications?
[00:33:55]  Al Jazeera?
[00:33:56]  Plus 972, Israeli publication.
[00:33:59]  It's an Israeli publication itself.
[00:34:01]  It's Israeli saying this.
[00:34:03]  The Jerusalem Post is an Israeli publication.
[00:34:05]  It's basically the MSNBC of Israel.
[00:34:08]  I didn't say that.
[00:34:08]  I didn't say it came from there.
[00:34:09]  You're saying a publication.
[00:34:11]  Appeal to authority.
[00:34:13]  The journalists say that.
[00:34:14]  Oh, my goodness.
[00:34:15]  It's like when you got car trouble.
[00:34:16]  Oh, let me ask my mechanic.
[00:34:18]  Oh, no, don't appeal to authority.
[00:34:19]  But this is the vaccine is safe and effective, fucking talking.
[00:34:23]  Okay, let's not talk about the vaccine.
[00:34:24]  I'm just saying it's the same.
[00:34:26]  Oh, I heard it.
[00:34:27]  I heard it from the experts.
[00:34:28]  Oh, man.
[00:34:29]  Yeah, I can't.
[00:34:30]  I would imagine that I have sources.
[00:34:32]  But real quick, this is how we do know vaccines are safe and effective because one of the most successful ceasefires in Gaza was so that they could do a vaccine campaign for the Gaza.
[00:34:41]  So that's how you know Israel loves those vaccines are very safe and effective if they're giving them out free like that.
[00:34:47]  Go ahead.
[00:34:49]  The Apache helicopter footage that you are referring to was from October 9th when they were shooting at Hamas terrorists.
[00:34:56]  They were not shooting at civilians.
[00:34:58]  They've been debunked.
[00:34:59]  They're not terrorists.
[00:35:02]  It's so wild that you are saying these people went into these kibbutzes in Israel and somehow still figured out a way to blame Israel, right?
[00:35:13]  It's like, oh my God, they killed civilians when they were attacked.
[00:35:17]  It's like, okay, if Washington, D.C. had like, I don't know, thousands of terrorists that just came in and soldiers were freaking trying to shoot them and accidentally shot a civilian.
[00:35:27]  And then a year and a half later, you're like, can you believe our military shot an American?

=== Belligerent Occupier Narrative (15:53) ===

[00:35:31]  It's like, dude, I get it.
[00:35:32]  It's like, fucking, yeah, there were civilian casualties.
[00:35:34]  There was crossfire.
[00:35:36]  Every single death that is on that day is at the hands of the people who went into the world.
[00:35:42]  And they started raping and murdering.
[00:35:43]  Again, that's not according.
[00:35:44]  There's no evidence of rape, but also rape a lot.
[00:35:49]  I love that you like to wait.
[00:35:51]  Two hostages addressing Hamas captivity that said I was raped over and over again are lying.
[00:35:56]  We'll get to the rape, but let him respond.
[00:35:59]  You said that everybody that died that day is the fault of Hamas because they instituted Operation Al-Aqsa Flood.
[00:36:08]  They burst through the apartheid wall.
[00:36:10]  They attacked Israel.
[00:36:12]  That is not what international laws say.
[00:36:14]  That is not what universal humanitarian laws say.
[00:36:18]  Every, you know, you read the articles expressed in the UN Charter, it makes clear that reprisals born against an occupying army or an occupying force are the fault of the occupier ultimately because they created the conditions for a reprisal, for an act of resistance.
[00:36:37]  And that is indeed what you have between the Gaza Strip, between the Palestinians and between the Israelis.
[00:36:43]  The Israelis are legally known and concluded to be occupying people.
[00:36:50]  They are an occupying state.
[00:36:51]  How?
[00:36:52]  How?
[00:36:53]  Because they took land in 1967.
[00:36:55]  And going back to my previous point, UN Resolution 242, when they started the Six-Day War in 1967.
[00:37:01]  Who started that war in 1967?
[00:37:04]  Israel started the war.
[00:37:05]  No, no, that was the Palestinians.
[00:37:08]  No, no, no.
[00:37:09]  Well, again, you can say five wars.
[00:37:12]  You can go into your feelings and you can make it personal all you want, but this is not, I have looked it up.
[00:37:17]  That's what I'm telling you.
[00:37:19]  UN Resolution 242 is unanimously agreed upon that Israel started an illegal war of acquisition.
[00:37:24]  And in that war, they acquired territory, which is illegal.
[00:37:28]  And then on top of that, they settled that land.
[00:37:31]  They instituted a blockade and siege of that land.
[00:37:34]  These are all war crimes.
[00:37:36]  They transferred people into the occupied territories, another war crime.
[00:37:40]  They transferred the indigenous people to other parts of the Occupy Tour, or expelled them, another war crime.
[00:37:45]  Every...
[00:37:46]  Who started the...
[00:37:47]  Every...
[00:37:48]  Who started the Arab-Israeli war of 1948?
[00:37:51]  Again, you don't want to go back that far.
[00:37:54]  You want to go back.
[00:37:55]  Yeah, I'd love to go back.
[00:37:56]  Let's go back to 1948.
[00:37:57]  Let's go back to 1948.
[00:37:59]  Let's go back to 1947.
[00:38:00]  1948.
[00:38:01]  When you say that the Arab-Israeli war, that is a misclassification.
[00:38:06]  That is a straw man of what is actually happening.
[00:38:10]  So what you're saying is that if Nazis came into your home and took your home and hogtied you and put your family in the basement and said, okay, this is our home now.
[00:38:22]  And if you fought back, then you're a terrorist.
[00:38:26]  That's basically what you're saying.
[00:38:27]  And this is just a war.
[00:38:28]  It's just a war.
[00:38:29]  The Nazis came in and they took my home and now it's a war.
[00:38:32]  Well, I do want to make the point.
[00:38:34]  I mean, Ms. Fitz, don't you have to understand that if your dad got blown up by Israel, wouldn't that radicalize you a little bit?
[00:38:40]  So, I mean, can't you be a little empathetic to them?
[00:38:43]  I mean, if your dad gets bombed, your grandfather got bombed, and you know.
[00:38:48]  I understand that there's the argument that if you, you know, if you go after terrorists, you create more terrorists, right?
[00:38:55]  And it's an argument that's predicated upon the fact that every conflict that we've, America and other nations have gotten into where you try to enact regime changes, they fail miserably because there's this, you know, resistance.
[00:39:09]  They don't want to change.
[00:39:10]  They don't want to go under your new laws and your new rules.
[00:39:14]  And we don't, God forbid we try to fucking civilize you people.
[00:39:17]  Oh my God.
[00:39:18]  Listen to this rhetoric, dude.
[00:39:20]  It is so Islamophobic.
[00:39:23]  I don't think we're Islamophobic enough, especially when you think so.
[00:39:26]  Listen to it.
[00:39:27]  I mean, I didn't have to really say anything at this point.
[00:39:29]  You look like a clown.
[00:39:30]  Over the past 50 years, how many terrorist attacks have been enacted in the name of Israel?
[00:39:36]  Over the past, what are you calling terrorism, dude?
[00:39:38]  We are occupying land across the entire world.
[00:39:42]  The United States is the greatest terrorist state in the world.
[00:39:44]  That's just probably agree with that.
[00:39:46]  That's just based on numbers.
[00:39:48]  Like, we've occupied, you know, that is our, we are the empire state here.
[00:39:53]  We are, we have been living in the past 50 to 80 years, we've been living in a, in a glow, in a unipolar moment, okay?
[00:39:59]  That's just in world history, that's just where we find ourselves.
[00:40:02]  We've awakened in this time.
[00:40:03]  We have political consciousness in this moment where there has been a one world superpower for the past ever since post-World War II, ever since the end of World War II, we have demonstrated unparalleled world supremacy.
[00:40:19]  Certainly since the Cold War, the Cold War.
[00:40:21]  Yeah, that's what I mean, like post-World War II, Cold War.
[00:40:24]  Absolutely.
[00:40:25]  So when you say terrorists, what you're talking about is resistance to terrorism.
[00:40:29]  You're talking about resistance to occupation.
[00:40:31]  We are occupying all of these lands.
[00:40:33]  If we just got the fuck out of the Middle East, have you just take a look at a map?
[00:40:37]  Like, look at a map, you know, pull up the map of the military bases that are that are in the Middle East right now.
[00:40:42]  They're ringing and dotting the entire region, okay?
[00:40:46]  You can't find an analog in the Western Hemisphere of Middle Easterners or any other, you know, culture or country that is posturing the same way in American, in the American sphere of influence, okay?
[00:40:59]  Well, maybe like Minneapolis has a lot of, but it is different.
[00:41:02]  Yeah, I know.
[00:41:03]  Minneapolis.
[00:41:03]  It is a little different than what you're saying.
[00:41:06]  Obviously, America is a much bigger occupier.
[00:41:09]  So I agree with that.
[00:41:10]  Like, we are the bullies that kind of start all this drama.
[00:41:12]  But to your point, though, the Islamophobia, this thing, not all Muslims are bad, right?
[00:41:18]  I mean, of course not.
[00:41:19]  I mean, so when you label like every Muslim is a terrorist, I mean, I didn't label every Muslim.
[00:41:23]  I know, and I'm not even trying to get on you.
[00:41:25]  I just feel like that narrative, we've created that narrative, and that is kind of a propaganda war that every Muslim guy is trying to blow us up, which is obviously not true.
[00:41:32]  I think every Islamist is.
[00:41:33]  Every Islamist is trying to.
[00:41:35]  And, you know, the funny thing is, by the way, the answer to the question I asked you is it's over 60,000.
[00:41:40]  Over 60,000 terrorist attacks.
[00:41:42]  According to the International Council for Terrorism, I might as well bring up those status.
[00:41:53]  Yeah, so what is it?
[00:41:54]  The International Council for Terrorism?
[00:41:55]  What is that?
[00:41:56]  I can't remember the name of it.
[00:41:57]  I think National Terrorism Council.
[00:41:58]  How convenient.
[00:42:01]  It's the main site that documents terrorist events.
[00:42:04]  Yeah, funded by the State Department.
[00:42:06]  So what's the UN funded by?
[00:42:09]  Exactly.
[00:42:10]  Shut up.
[00:42:11]  So now, hold on.
[00:42:12]  I'm sorry.
[00:42:12]  The UN is funded by the United States.
[00:42:14]  Over 60,000 documented terrorists.
[00:42:16]  And the UN is actually the institution that I'm citing by the UN.
[00:42:22]  And even they confer.
[00:42:23]  Hold on.
[00:42:24]  Let's take a turn.
[00:42:24]  You think every single one of these instances, over 60,000 over the past 50 years that have been documented, whether you agree with the numbers or not, you think all of those are resistance.
[00:42:34]  But what Israel is doing right now, after we watched on Telegram what happened on October 7th, is not resistance.
[00:42:42]  Do you see the problem in your logic?
[00:42:44]  I see the problem in your logic in not understanding that Israel, according to the world consensus, is the belligerent occupier ever since 1967, formally.
[00:42:53]  So 20 years, two decades before the creation of Hamas, there was the acquisition of territory that Israel occupied, subsequently settled.
[00:43:03]  Global terrorism data.
[00:43:05]  And that's two decades before the creation of Hamas.
[00:43:08]  So you have to ask yourself, and I know this is hard for you to have self-reflection, but in the 20 years since the war of acquisition in 1967, 1987, what was going on?
[00:43:20]  What was Israel doing that would have led to Palestinians feeling as though we need to engage in armed resistance against this occupying army, against this occupying force?
[00:43:31]  It's concluded by every relevant authority in this matter, okay, that Israel has imposed an illegal blockade and siege of the Gaza Strip.
[00:43:43]  They have, you know, starved and...
[00:43:48]  You keep saying starved, right?
[00:43:51]  Why would...
[00:43:52]  Why would Israel have to feed them?
[00:43:55]  Because they're an occupying army.
[00:43:56]  And the laws of belligerent occupation require that if you're not occupying it.
[00:44:00]  Listen, but there is an asymmetrical power struggle where Israel has power, so they are responsible.
[00:44:04]  Yes, I can hope so.
[00:44:05]  The law of belligerent occupation administered by the International Committee for the Red Cross tells us what this means.
[00:44:14]  No, it's not.
[00:44:15]  It's an international institution.
[00:44:17]  And again, you know, you can laugh, but this is we're talking about universal humanitarian laws.
[00:44:26]  And if you are a belligerent occupier under universal humanitarian laws, you have the rights of occupation, okay?
[00:44:34]  You have rights as a belligerent occupier, but you also incur responsibilities and Israel defaults on those responsibilities.
[00:44:41]  I just want to point out that the U.S. tried to establish a pier in Gaza to deliver aid, and they were constantly attacked and had to be dismantled under Biden.
[00:44:49]  So Hamas or whatever groups in Palestine were not looking for help because the U.S. tried to deliver it.
[00:44:54]  So there is resistance going on that you have to acknowledge in the Gaza Strip to this day.
[00:44:59]  I mean, and you see that.
[00:45:00]  I think that pier was a political.
[00:45:02]  You see the pallets of food and fuel and coal.
[00:45:05]  Yeah, they're not being let in by Israel.
[00:45:07]  They're not being let in by Israel.
[00:45:08]  Then why does Israel have the pallets sitting there ready to go in?
[00:45:13]  Because international aid organizations have delivered it up to the apartheid wall and they are met by IDF forces who say no.
[00:45:22]  Would you agree that you have working eyes and ears based off of this conversation?
[00:45:26]  I think that's in the affirmative.
[00:45:27]  Have you seen the videos of Hamas firing on their own civilians, right, when they get those aid trucks in?
[00:45:33]  No, no, no.
[00:45:35]  That's Israeli Israeli forces that have done that.
[00:45:39]  No, absolutely.
[00:45:39]  And again, again, again, even if that was true, even if it was true.
[00:45:45]  It's fucking true.
[00:45:45]  We're talking about a belligerent occupier occupying people.
[00:45:50]  But why are they shooting their own citizens?
[00:45:51]  They don't get the right to say, they don't get the right to say, oh, look at them.
[00:45:54]  So is Hamas?
[00:45:55]  Look at what they're doing.
[00:45:57]  They're engaging the Palestinian.
[00:45:58]  They're stealing the loot.
[00:45:59]  They're looting the aid.
[00:46:01]  Dude, get out of their fucking country.
[00:46:03]  No, it's God.
[00:46:04]  Stop blocking the aid.
[00:46:06]  I'm talking about the people who are not in the world.
[00:46:06]  You have no right.
[00:46:07]  You have no right to go in there and tell them how much food can be let in.
[00:46:13]  They're a country.
[00:46:14]  They're allowed to trade.
[00:46:15]  They're not a country.
[00:46:15]  They're allowed.
[00:46:17]  They're not a country because they're denied the rights of the country.
[00:46:20]  And I think that's wrong.
[00:46:22]  Okay.
[00:46:22]  Yeah.
[00:46:23]  You can make that argument, but I can, and I just did.
[00:46:25]  So you can't occupy something that isn't a fucking country.
[00:46:29]  Yes, you can.
[00:46:30]  It is a country under international law.
[00:46:32]  It's recognized as a sovereign territory, but it is under illegal occupation.
[00:46:36]  It's okay.
[00:46:37]  It's a territory.
[00:46:37]  It's a country that is being deprived its rights as a country.
[00:46:41]  And that's misfit.
[00:46:42]  You love America.
[00:46:43]  You're misfit patriot.
[00:46:44]  You would die for this country, wouldn't you?
[00:46:46]  Absolutely.
[00:46:47]  So why wouldn't a Palestinian do the same thing?
[00:46:49]  Whether you're in Texas or Massachusetts, I'm saying they're going to die for the country just like you would die for America.
[00:46:54]  That's a valid point.
[00:46:55]  It's actually a really good point.
[00:46:56]  And we had a civil war over the issue of slavery, right?
[00:47:00]  And some people thought they were right, and the other people thought they were right.
[00:47:03]  And they fucking killed each other.
[00:47:05]  And I think that it was necessary to end slavery.
[00:47:08]  I wouldn't say that the North and the South both didn't believe what they were doing is correct.
[00:47:13]  But I think that we can all agree that one side was right, one side was wrong, and the good guys won.
[00:47:20]  And this is no different.
[00:47:22]  This is no different.
[00:47:23]  This is you have the Palestinians, not the Palestinian people, not the Palestinian people, the Hamas supporting Palestinians, and you have the de facto government that they elected.
[00:47:35]  And this is why they don't have a right to any of these arguments of we're a territory, you're occupying.
[00:47:40]  Because the Palestinians got together like 20 years ago and they said, you know who we want to be our government?
[00:47:46]  Hamas.
[00:47:47]  Okay?
[00:47:47]  And do you know Hamas?
[00:47:48]  Why they said that?
[00:47:49]  Do you know why they said that?
[00:47:50]  Because they were under illegal occupation.
[00:47:52]  It's an occupied territory.
[00:47:53]  Okay, so they voted in terrorists to fight the L-A-S-A-S-E-S-A-N-A-N-A-S-N-T.
[00:47:57]  It's not terrorists.
[00:47:58]  It's because the Israelis installed subcontractors to carry out the duties of occupation in the name of the PLO.
[00:48:07]  And the Palestinians correctly realized that their situation was not changing.
[00:48:12]  The Oslo Accords in the 90s did not come to a peaceful appropriation of their rights.
[00:48:18]  And so what do you do?
[00:48:20]  You become disillusioned.
[00:48:22]  You're smug, and you're not under occupation.
[00:48:26]  You don't know what it's like being systematically starved.
[00:48:29]  You don't know what it's like to have your families bombed in the middle of the night.
[00:48:33]  You don't understand what it's like to have these campaigns of terror instituted against your territory, against your homes and families.
[00:48:40]  So you don't get it.
[00:48:42]  But the Palestinians understood that under the PLO, they were being subverted.
[00:48:48]  They were being subjugated.
[00:48:49]  And it was really just a Mossad cutout at that point.
[00:48:52]  They installed subcontractors to take on the duties of occupation and so that the Israelis could wash their hands clean and say, look, we're not really involved, even though they were very intimately involved.
[00:49:05]  And that's been spelled out throughout the entire 90s.
[00:49:08]  And that led to the second intifada, which began peacefully.
[00:49:12]  It was a peaceful protest against the occupation forces.
[00:49:15]  And guess what happens?
[00:49:17]  According to the Israeli minister at the time who was involved in the Oslo Accords, Shlomo ben Ami, says that the IDF escalated the situation.
[00:49:29]  It was an authentic Palestinian struggle for self-determination.
[00:49:32]  The second intifada I'm talking about, you listening?
[00:49:36]  Okay.
[00:49:37]  2000, 2001, the second intifada began peacefully.
[00:49:43]  It was a peaceful protest against the occupying force.
[00:49:45]  And the finance minister, Shlomo ben Ami, or maybe he was the foreign minister, I forget.
[00:49:50]  He concluded that it began peacefully and it was an authentic Palestinian struggle for self-determination.
[00:49:56]  And it only escalated into an all-out war when the IDF started shooting them down after, you know, maybe a kid was throwing a rock or something, you know?
[00:50:06]  Okay.
[00:50:07]  You know, those rocks are really deadly.
[00:50:09]  The kid that threw the rock.
[00:50:10]  What about sandwich?
[00:50:11]  How many rockets fired into Israel on average?
[00:50:14]  You do not claim a moral right if that moral right traces back to an illegal wrong.
[00:50:19]  This is something that the ancient Greeks understood.
[00:50:22]  When they said ex injuria non juus orator, they meant that a legal right cannot be invoked from an illegal wrong.
[00:50:28]  So when you acquire territory and you occupy people, you don't get the right to self-defense in occupied territory.
[00:50:34]  That's not how it works.
[00:50:34]  It wasn't occupied.
[00:50:35]  It was occupied.
[00:50:36]  We're just candidate.
[00:50:37]  So how far do you want to go back?
[00:50:38]  Because your whole entire argument, everything that you've been saying is a he started it argument.
[00:50:43]  Absolutely.
[00:50:43]  Okay, so who started it and when?
[00:50:45]  Let's establish that.
[00:50:48]  We could go back to the beginning of the name.
[00:50:51]  We could go back 3,000.
[00:50:53]  Biblical rights have no status in the world today.
[00:50:55]  You can't invoke the Bible.
[00:50:56]  We're talking about modern history, dude.
[00:50:58]  Let's start with modern history.
[00:50:58]  Let's start with the creation of the nation-state of Israel.
[00:51:02]  Yeah, okay.
[00:51:03]  That was The UNGA 181 partition plan, which gave Israel the international birth certificate, was itself a declaration of war.

=== Why Tunnels Matter (15:18) ===

[00:51:13]  I do not, uh, that's what that's agree with the decision to create the state of Israel.
[00:51:18]  Okay, okay, so just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it was not created.
[00:51:22]  Yeah, well, we obviously know Israel.
[00:51:24]  Was it created in a legal format?
[00:51:27]  Is it an established nation?
[00:51:29]  Yes, by the way.
[00:51:30]  Western European and United States countries.
[00:51:32]  Yeah, this is the point, though.
[00:51:33]  League of Nations.
[00:51:34]  Even those institutions that gave Israel the international birth certificate in 1948, even those institutions condemn Israel ever since 1967.
[00:51:44]  That's why my argument goes back to 1967 formally.
[00:51:47]  But not 1948.
[00:51:48]  Well, it does for me, yes.
[00:51:49]  It does go back to 1948.
[00:51:51]  In fact, it goes back to 1917.
[00:51:52]  It goes back to the 1890s ever since Jewish immigration to Palestine by the Zionists started.
[00:51:58]  Okay, so let's go.
[00:52:01]  This argument is right.
[00:52:02]  Theodore Hersel's vision for a modern state of Israel where Jews have a right to live in peace and exist in that particular location, which was not his formula.
[00:52:11]  It wasn't even really part of the original plan to be.
[00:52:14]  If you read Theodore Herzl's diary, he makes clear that he knew that they would have to dispossess and spirit, quote, spirit the penniless population of the territory to come over to our sides.
[00:52:25]  After we've dispossessed and taken their lands and resettled it, we're going to give them breadcrumbs to make sure that they're going to be copacetic to the whole situation.
[00:52:34]  But let's look, they knew they did dispossession and depriving of these land, resources, and labor of these indigenous peoples was always part of the plan.
[00:52:43]  That's the formulation of Zionism at the beginning.
[00:52:46]  Okay, but let's just at least agree on the point that Israel was created.
[00:52:50]  And whether you agree with it or not, it was created.
[00:52:54]  It's a nation, right?
[00:52:55]  And then there was a dispute over a nation that is there was this dispute over who gets what.
[00:53:03]  A lot of deals were turned down by the Palestinians and they were offered this territory and that territory and they said no, no, no.
[00:53:09]  And they started war after war after war after war.
[00:53:11]  And you think, hold on.
[00:53:12]  You think all of these wars, right, that have been started by one side, right?
[00:53:16]  It's a very one-sided initiation of conflict.
[00:53:20]  You think all of them are justified because all of its resistance, just because of the mere fact that Israel was created.
[00:53:25]  Again, I'll give you this metaphor.
[00:53:27]  I come into your home, I hogtie your family, I give you the basement, I take over the upper three floors of your house, okay?
[00:53:34]  And I, and then you somehow free yourself and you try to come up and attack me.
[00:53:40]  And I say, oh, you're starting a war with me.
[00:53:42]  Okay, why would you do that?
[00:53:44]  That is exactly what has happened in 1948 with the creation of the state of Israel.
[00:53:48]  Remember, you said that, oh, we were so benevolent.
[00:53:51]  We gave them all this land.
[00:53:52]  No, you took the majority of the land that was allotted to the Jewish Zionist settlers was afforded by the UN.
[00:54:02]  They're not settled.
[00:54:03]  But no, but they're called occupiers.
[00:54:05]  The Jews are called occupiers.
[00:54:08]  But this goes back to my point.
[00:54:11]  If it's a nation that has been established, how can you occupy your own nation?
[00:54:16]  You can't, right?
[00:54:17]  There have been the late establishment.
[00:54:20]  This is a unique situation.
[00:54:21]  There's been peace agreement after peace agreement after peace agreement that has been turned down every time by Israel.
[00:54:28]  No, by Palestine, right?
[00:54:30]  And look, there's been ceasefires that have been broken by Israel.
[00:54:33]  Okay.
[00:54:33]  That's happened.
[00:54:34]  Yeah.
[00:54:34]  And there's been ceasefires that have been broken by Palestine.
[00:54:37]  No, there haven't.
[00:54:38]  This is the problem with you.
[00:54:40]  You don't have any.
[00:54:42]  How is it that I can say from a pro-Israel side, I am agreeing that Israel has broken ceasefires, right?
[00:54:48]  You will not, you will not give anything to, you will not acknowledge that makes sense.
[00:54:56]  You will not acknowledge that there's, you will not acknowledge that there has been any wrongdoing on one side.
[00:55:01]  That's your problem.
[00:55:02]  It's the principal contradiction.
[00:55:03]  It's just occupied people versus why you're a heck.
[00:55:05]  No, no, no.
[00:55:05]  You will not be able to do it.
[00:55:08]  There is an infallibility.
[00:55:10]  Show me where the Palestinians have broken a ceasefire, okay?
[00:55:13]  The whole point of a ceasefire is that they're under occupation, okay?
[00:55:18]  The great argument, you were tacitly accepting the inherent violence.
[00:55:22]  We can do whatever we want because we believe that there's an occupation.
[00:55:26]  We can do whatever we want because until no, no, not because we or whatever.
[00:55:30]  Again, these are international conclusions that have been drawn by legal authorities, okay?
[00:55:37]  They have said this is an occupying situation.
[00:55:41]  And if it goes back to, you know, I feel like you're not even listening.
[00:55:46]  I'm listening.
[00:55:47]  I'm listening to you.
[00:55:49]  But your whole entire argument hinges on one point: that there is an occupation.
[00:55:55]  Yeah, any, hold on.
[00:55:56]  And if there is an occupation, anything goes, right?
[00:56:00]  There is no fallibility to Hamas.
[00:56:03]  They can do no wrong.
[00:56:04]  Everything is acceptable.
[00:56:05]  Rape, resistance, fucking everything.
[00:56:07]  No, no, he didn't say anything.
[00:56:09]  You said earlier.
[00:56:11]  You said earlier there was no rape from the what would Auschwitz like what would the straw man this?
[00:56:18]  I want to pinch it.
[00:56:18]  I want to hammer you down on this point.
[00:56:22]  There were two hostages that were released from Hamas captivity that said, I was raped repeatedly.
[00:56:27]  And half of the women were raped.
[00:56:30]  Are you calling them liars?
[00:56:32]  Say that again.
[00:56:33]  Who said this?
[00:56:34]  There were two hostages, women, that were released from captivity in one of the hostages.
[00:56:39]  Okay, did you see the IDF soldiers raping these Palestinian detainees?
[00:56:45]  There's tens of thousands of prisoners in the Israeli.
[00:56:47]  I'm not sure what about Ism for another, for 30 more seconds.
[00:56:51]  There were two women who were released from Hamas captivity who said, I was raped repeatedly.
[00:56:58]  At least half the women in captivity out of the 200 and something hostages were raped repeatedly.
[00:57:04]  There is documented evidence from first-hand accounts.
[00:57:07]  If you watch a documentary, Screams Before Silence, I doubt you will because you'll just call it Israeli propaganda.
[00:57:12]  Well, they go over all of the evidence that I do not trust anything out of Israel's fault.
[00:57:16]  Of course you don't, because then you'd have to be afraid of the people.
[00:57:18]  They're a belligerent liar.
[00:57:19]  No, there's no cognitive dissonance.
[00:57:23]  There's absolutely no legitimacy.
[00:57:25]  So they're lying.
[00:57:25]  I just want to say that.
[00:57:26]  There's no legitimacy until there's a actual independent.
[00:57:30]  You know what's really?
[00:57:31]  This could be verified.
[00:57:33]  The Israel doesn't let third-party organizations come in and actually do investigations.
[00:57:41]  The IDF said so, so we got to go with that.
[00:57:43]  No, no, no.
[00:57:43]  The women said so.
[00:57:44]  The women said so.
[00:57:45]  On camera.
[00:57:46]  Let's, okay, so the women are you calling them liars?
[00:57:49]  Let's see what the evidence is.
[00:57:50]  What is the evidence?
[00:57:51]  I just told you, watch the documentary.
[00:57:52]  It wasn't an idea.
[00:57:53]  I didn't watch the documentary.
[00:57:56]  After this debate, go watch the documentary.
[00:57:59]  But for argument's sake, let's just agree and let's just admit maybe both sides.
[00:58:03]  And sadly, I don't know why we have to admit this, have raped people.
[00:58:06]  I know it's disgusting.
[00:58:07]  The war is disgusting.
[00:58:08]  There's sexual assault.
[00:58:09]  Let's just call it.
[00:58:12]  I will be happy to say that there's a high likelihood that there has been an Israeli soldier that has raped people.
[00:58:18]  I'm sure because listen, he will not do that.
[00:58:21]  There's Palestinians that will have sex with a goat.
[00:58:23]  No offense.
[00:58:24]  I'm just saying, you know, so I'm not surprised they rape a human.
[00:58:26]  My point is, though, even if there were some sexual assaults, which is horrible, still being murdered is worse than a sexual assault.
[00:58:33]  You know what I mean?
[00:58:34]  He's calling it resistance.
[00:58:36]  It's not resistance to rape people.
[00:58:38]  Again, we're talking about occupied people.
[00:58:43]  So raping people is okay if you're occupied.
[00:58:45]  There's no excuse for rape.
[00:58:47]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:58:48]  Franks are finally fucking up.
[00:58:50]  I'm saying we use this rape.
[00:58:51]  We see the narrative constantly.
[00:58:52]  Rape, rape, rape.
[00:58:53]  And because I'm sure there was a rape that probably happened, does that mean little kids should not be able to get flour to make bread?
[00:59:00]  You know what I mean?
[00:59:02]  Again, we have, like you just said earlier, we have built a pier for aid.
[00:59:09]  We have aid being dropped in.
[00:59:11]  There are pallets of aid being able to.
[00:59:12]  Why are they so relying on international aid?
[00:59:14]  Bro.
[00:59:15]  Because they're deprived of their rights as a country.
[00:59:18]  They're not fucking aware.
[00:59:18]  They're being allowed to be, they are internationally recognized as a sovereign territory and their rights are being deprived.
[00:59:25]  That's a legal argument, okay?
[00:59:28]  And that's something that's beyond you or me or this room, okay?
[00:59:31]  That is what world institutions have concluded.
[00:59:33]  These are occupied people.
[00:59:35]  If you want to pearl clutch about the violence committed on October 7th, fine.
[00:59:39]  Prol clutch.
[00:59:40]  Blame the Israeli government.
[00:59:41]  See, this is the problem.
[00:59:43]  That is the principal aggressor.
[00:59:45]  The constant shifting of blame to the people who were attacked on October 7th is on October 6th.
[00:59:54]  What about October 1st?
[00:59:55]  There was a ceasefire on October 6th.
[00:59:56]  You know who broke it?
[00:59:57]  That October 7th wasn't a bright, beautiful day.
[01:00:00]  In fact, there were 2.3 million people enclosed in a concentration camp who were slowly starving to death.
[01:00:07]  And they decided, you know what, we're going to do something about it because I don't want to die anymore.
[01:00:11]  How long did it take to build the tunnels?
[01:00:13]  Let's talk about the tunnels.
[01:00:15]  I would love to talk about the tunnels.
[01:00:16]  The fact that there is an illegal blockade, Bronze Age siege warfare instituted against the Gaza Strip on part by the Israelis.
[01:00:23]  Yes, they've had to construct tunnels underneath the ground because, you know, apparently Israelis expect Palestinians to just stand on the surface while we bomb you.
[01:00:35]  Do they put the Gaza people in the tunnel?
[01:00:37]  They've destroyed every single fucking building.
[01:00:39]  Are the Gazan people in 2014?
[01:00:42]  Are the Gazan civilians allowed to go in those tunnels and protect themselves from Israeli bombs?
[01:00:47]  Are Gazan civilians allowed to go under into tunnels?
[01:00:51]  Yes.
[01:00:52]  I asked the question.
[01:00:53]  You just repeated it.
[01:00:53]  Yeah.
[01:00:54]  Can you answer it?
[01:00:55]  Sure.
[01:00:56]  No, they're not.
[01:00:58]  And this is on video of Gazans actually saying we're not allowed to go in the tunnels.
[01:01:01]  Hamas will shoot them.
[01:01:03]  Oh, shit.
[01:01:04]  Okay.
[01:01:04]  Well, you know what?
[01:01:05]  You want to talk about that?
[01:01:07]  I do.
[01:01:07]  Fine.
[01:01:10]  Let Israel vacate the occupied territories.
[01:01:13]  Then you can talk about the tunnels.
[01:01:14]  The reason that the tunnels are there is because of the Israeli occupation.
[01:01:19]  They've blocked every fucking border.
[01:01:22]  But why are the tunnels?
[01:01:23]  They control the airspace, dude.
[01:01:24]  Yeah, but why are they?
[01:01:25]  They control the land and borders.
[01:01:27]  What are the tunnels?
[01:01:27]  They control everything about that strip and what pearl clutching about the fucking tunnels.
[01:01:32]  They created the tunnels because of the occupation.
[01:01:34]  So they created the tunnels.
[01:01:36]  And most of the tunnels, most of the tunnels were there to import food.
[01:01:42]  That's what they're doing.
[01:01:43]  90% of the food that comes into the Gaza Strip has to come in under the Rafah border.
[01:01:47]  Sure.
[01:01:48]  Okay.
[01:01:48]  Yeah.
[01:01:49]  And the clothing and shit like baby formula.
[01:01:52]  So the food is allowed in the tunnels.
[01:01:53]  The people are not.
[01:01:55]  Oh my God.
[01:01:56]  The people are not.
[01:01:57]  I mean, it's like cartel builds tunnels.
[01:02:01]  Yeah.
[01:02:01]  Hey, and in New York, the Jews build tunnels.
[01:02:05]  Everyone's building tunnels.
[01:02:07]  Everyone's got tunnels.
[01:02:07]  Yeah.
[01:02:07]  But you know what?
[01:02:08]  See, the thing is.
[01:02:08]  But they don't allow their civilians in the tunnels, so therefore let's just continue bombing them.
[01:02:13]  So in 2005, right, Hamas has the opportunity to build infrastructure, help their own people, put a nice grid.
[01:02:24]  No, they don't.
[01:02:25]  No, they did.
[01:02:26]  How do you think they got the money to build the fucking tunnels?
[01:02:29]  They're under occupation.
[01:02:30]  I mean, come on, tunnels aren't that expensive.
[01:02:32]  And they do have funding.
[01:02:33]  I mean, it's pretty expensive.
[01:02:34]  Have you ever seen a tunnel?
[01:02:35]  I'm just saying.
[01:02:36]  Okay, they buy a lot of people.
[01:02:36]  Do you think people just want to build tunnels to be underground?
[01:02:39]  You think people want to go hide underneath?
[01:02:41]  That's my question to you.
[01:02:42]  Because they're being bombed here.
[01:02:42]  Hold on.
[01:02:43]  You said why the tunnels are being built.
[01:02:45]  What were the tunnels built for?
[01:02:47]  And it's not food.
[01:02:49]  Yes, they were.
[01:02:49]  Actually, Sarah Roy, a Harvard economist, has studied this extensively going back to the 90s.
[01:02:54]  And she, as well as a plethora of other economists, have determined that the 90% of all of the tunnels that go into Gaza and come out of Gaza were created post-2005, which means that after Israel imposed the harsh blockade, yes, predictably, and after they committed these operations, these terrorist operations in the Gaza Strip where they demolished the entire strip.
[01:03:25]  Yes, they created more tunnels to circumvent the Israeli occupation.
[01:03:29]  That's not a fucking revelation.
[01:03:32]  How does a tunnel circumvent an Israeli state?
[01:03:33]  Because you go underground and then that way you can smuggle in shit that you need to have a society because it's being deprived.
[01:03:39]  You mean like bombs?
[01:03:41]  No, I don't mean like bombs, actually, because most of the shit, like I just said, that went into Rafah from Egypt was food, clothing, construction materials, you need to have an actual fucking society because if you don't have buildings, you can't organize.
[01:03:56]  You have infrastructure.
[01:03:58]  Since 2005, when they started building the tunnels, there has been a grand total of 32,330 rockets and mortars fired towards Israel.
[01:04:05]  2005, and you know, predictably, that's when the occupation ratcheted up the blockade, ratcheted up the siege.
[01:04:12]  So yes.
[01:04:12]  Did you see how ludicrous that was where they said they weren't going to send them cookies because they could use the cookies?
[01:04:17]  Yeah.
[01:04:17]  Oh my God.
[01:04:18]  It wasn't that sorry.
[01:04:19]  Yeah, they say that they can make rockets.
[01:04:22]  Look, if it were me, I wouldn't fucking let anything in the middle.
[01:04:26]  I know, because you're spineless coward.
[01:04:30]  No, I mean, I wouldn't, listen.
[01:04:32]  If Mexico did what Hamas did, I wouldn't fucking send snacks to Mexico.
[01:04:36]  See, I'm different.
[01:04:37]  Even a person on death row in prison, I hate them.
[01:04:39]  I think they deserve to eat food, believe it or not.
[01:04:41]  Somebody in a prison.
[01:04:41]  Sure, but if that person on death row is firing a rocket at you, fucking 50.
[01:04:46]  Let's say they killed a few.
[01:04:48]  If they killed a family of seven, you know, in a weird rage, a fit of rage, I still believe that person, when they go to jail, should not be starved.
[01:04:56]  What the point we're leaving out is there is a difference.
[01:04:59]  It sounds anti-Semitic.
[01:05:00]  Before we like, there is a consistent threat to Israel that is proven through the amount of rockets that is being fired at Israel daily, right?
[01:05:11]  They're not being fired by Hamas.
[01:05:13]  They're being fired by Hamas.
[01:05:14]  They're being fired out of Gaza into Israel.
[01:05:16]  That's what the Iron Dome is for.
[01:05:18]  Well, I understand that, but it's like a lot of those bombs, I mean, I don't know how big of a...
[01:05:22]  Yeah, but just because they're bad at it doesn't mean that it's fucking...
[01:05:24]  No, it's the foreign countries that they're actually afraid of.
[01:05:27]  It's not really God.
[01:05:28]  Alex is right.
[01:05:29]  There's studies done on this.
[01:05:30]  There's documented evidence that shows that an overwhelming majority of the rockets that are fired into the green zone, the green line in Israel, are glorified bottle rockets.
[01:05:42]  And they're counted as if they are, oh, it's another rocket.
[01:05:46]  Oh, we're under attack.
[01:05:48]  And it's a way of showing how good the Iron Dome is.
[01:05:51]  Yeah, but it's really not exactly.
[01:05:53]  So your argument is they build shitty rockets and fire them at Israel.
[01:05:58]  Yeah, because they don't have a military.
[01:06:00]  But they're deprived of the people who are called Hamas.
[01:06:02]  They are deprived of having any, show me a military base.
[01:06:07]  Where's their military base?
[01:06:08]  Where's their navy?

=== Shifts in Christian Support (06:22) ===

[01:06:09]  Where's their army?
[01:06:09]  Exactly.
[01:06:10]  Where is their military?
[01:06:12]  They're embedded into the civilian circle, which is why Gaza looks like Hiroshima.
[01:06:17]  It's because of what now?
[01:06:19]  Their military base is any fucking house they want.
[01:06:22]  It's hospitals.
[01:06:23]  So the heads of the city.
[01:06:24]  It's Moss.
[01:06:24]  It's on the Mossad, which the Kirlig compound or whatever it's called in downtown Tel Aviv.
[01:06:31]  We can just bomb downtown Tel Aviv since there's a Mossad building there.
[01:06:36]  The IDF headquarters are underground in Tel Aviv, so we can bomb Tel Aviv.
[01:06:41]  We can just wipe off Tel Aviv off the map, right?
[01:06:44]  That's your logic.
[01:06:45]  Well, I mean, all right.
[01:06:45]  So they're embedded in civilian infrastructure.
[01:06:48]  So let's level it.
[01:06:49]  Gaza is about the size of Detroit, okay?
[01:06:51]  So let's say there was a resist, according to you, a resistance force, right?
[01:06:56]  A resistance force that was in Detroit that was firing rockets at their neighbors, you know, like outer Detroit, whatever.
[01:07:04]  And we were saying, okay, these people are literally embedding themselves in downtown Detroit, and they're constantly firing rockets out, and they're hiding among civilians, and we can't do anything about it.
[01:07:15]  Do I think that we should bomb Detroit?
[01:07:17]  Yeah.
[01:07:18]  So that's the problem.
[01:07:20]  What about the chop in Seattle?
[01:07:21]  We've kind of had that where there's been resistance.
[01:07:23]  We didn't go bomb.
[01:07:24]  That's a very tamed down version of it.
[01:07:26]  I agree, but we don't bomb chop because chop isn't a threat.
[01:07:29]  When there's a school shooter mowing down kindergartners, we should just bomb the school.
[01:07:32]  Speaking of school shooters, the one that just took out a couple of kids this week wrote Free Palestine in their manifesto.
[01:07:37]  Oh my God, well, let's bomb.
[01:07:38]  Let's send more bombs to Israel.
[01:07:40]  Well, to this trans shooter, though, everybody's saying that he was anti-Israel.
[01:07:43]  He did go to a Catholic church and shoot at mass.
[01:07:46]  So I would think he's more anti-Christian.
[01:07:48]  They're not going to target the synagogues where they have security because of all the threats that they get, right?
[01:07:52]  Well, regardless, I'm just saying if he really was that anti-Israel, I think he would have not gone to a Catholic Church.
[01:07:58]  He wanted to whatever.
[01:07:58]  I think the cowards who kill children find a social media.
[01:08:01]  Yeah, he's disgusting.
[01:08:03]  Cowards who kill children with Israel.
[01:08:05]  There's a connection.
[01:08:06]  He knew that it was a soft tongue.
[01:08:07]  I'm not saying he necessarily loves Israel, but I just think he hates Catholics more.
[01:08:11]  Well, I think that he hates the children of Abraham.
[01:08:13]  I think that he hates anything.
[01:08:15]  The overwhelming majority of Christians are Zionists.
[01:08:18]  They support Israel because Jesus was a Jew.
[01:08:21]  Jesus is from that region.
[01:08:23]  And they have a religious tie to that land.
[01:08:26]  I mean, that's why I am a quote Zionist is because I believe in the Abrahamic covenant.
[01:08:31]  Let's talk about this real quick, though.
[01:08:32]  And Tate, then you can talk.
[01:08:34]  But I want to talk about the woke right because you aren't really necessarily woke right.
[01:08:38]  And that's a huge conservative debate.
[01:08:41]  I'm sure you're familiar with that, Rathbone, about how conservatives are now fighting because most Christians are pro-Israel.
[01:08:46]  So Tate, what are you going to say?
[01:08:47]  And then let's get into the kind of the woke right argument.
[01:08:49]  Right.
[01:08:49]  Yeah.
[01:08:50]  Well, I mean, it's just, we're talking about like dispensationalism, right?
[01:08:53]  And I think it's fair to say that dispensationalism, which is a sort of modern, modern view, a modern way to view the Bible, has completely guided our foreign policy over the last 70, 80 years.
[01:09:06]  And now you are seeing pushback from Christians, specifically Catholics and Reformed Protestants against sort of this dispensational view of the Bible.
[01:09:18]  And I think you are seeing, that's why you're seeing sort of a shift of Christians not supporting Israel on theological grounds anymore.
[01:09:27]  Sure.
[01:09:28]  There's two different ways to support Israel.
[01:09:30]  You can support the people of Israel, which I believe are the ones that fall under the Abrahamic covenant, which is the Jews, the people of the Jewish faith, right?
[01:09:39]  Not secular Jews, not this nation-state of Israel.
[01:09:43]  That's more where I come from from my arguments on it.
[01:09:47]  But, you know, you talk about dispensationalism and how the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church don't really align with the modern Zionism.
[01:09:55]  And I think that you would be right.
[01:09:57]  It's not as big of a percentage as I think a lot of people are inflating it to be.
[01:10:00]  But the Second Vatican Council Declaration, Anosra Teit, affirms God's covenant with the Jewish people has never been revoked.
[01:10:07]  And official Catholic teaching holds the old covenant retains its value and that the Jewish people remain most dear to God.
[01:10:13]  So modern Catholic documents reaffirm that the abrogationist supersessionism, the view that Christianity has replaced Judaism entirely lacks foundational Catholic doctrine.
[01:10:24]  Well, it's not a replacement, but I believe, I mean, I'm a reformed Protestant, but the catechism of the Catholic Church does hold the view that, like in the Pauline letters, like in Galatians, where the promises made to Abraham were fulfilled in Christ.
[01:10:37]  That's the new covenant.
[01:10:40]  And the argument that I would make, which is the, I guess you could call it the dispensationalist argument, it's not really, but you know what I'm saying, is under the Abrahamic covenant, it's an everlasting covenant, right?
[01:10:49]  And if God is omnipotent, doesn't make mistakes, then he can't create an everlasting covenant that would have an end date, right?
[01:10:57]  Right.
[01:10:58]  So, and it wouldn't transfer because if it would transfer, then they wouldn't have to create the new covenant.
[01:11:03]  It would just be the same covenant.
[01:11:05]  It is the same covenant.
[01:11:06]  It's the overarching covenant of grace.
[01:11:08]  But why would it be called the new covenant?
[01:11:10]  Because it's still the same covenant between God and his people.
[01:11:13]  But new would mean different.
[01:11:15]  Well, new as in the old one has been fulfilled.
[01:11:18]  No, it's not.
[01:11:21]  We go right back to that.
[01:11:22]  If the Abrahamic covenant is an everlasting covenant, it can't be fulfilled.
[01:11:27]  It's everlasting.
[01:11:28]  We have to define what the covenant is and the covenant would be the definitive means of salvation.
[01:11:34]  Sure.
[01:11:35]  And I mean, and there's the argument that the people that are defined as Israel are now Christians, right?
[01:11:44]  And the Jews are not.
[01:11:46]  And there's this, that would be replacement theology.
[01:11:50]  And I just think it's, I think it's a lazy, silly way to view the Bible because there's so many references in the Bible that kind of refute that.
[01:12:00]  Yeah, I think you're right.
[01:12:01]  Killing whatever.
[01:12:03]  I don't want to.
[01:12:04]  What are y'all talking about?
[01:12:05]  Are you just looking up Gaza?
[01:12:06]  I thought you were looking up something.
[01:12:07]  Someone in chat said there's a McDonald's operating in Gaza.
[01:12:10]  I don't think that's true.
[01:12:10]  Exactly.
[01:12:11]  I don't think that's true.
[01:12:14]  They just spent $50,000.

=== Bots and Bias (05:49) ===

[01:12:17]  They just spent $50,000 on a rooftop party in Gaza, and that's on video.
[01:12:22]  There's a roof in Gaza?
[01:12:23]  Yeah, there's one left.
[01:12:24]  Wow.
[01:12:24]  There's one left.
[01:12:25]  And if you went over there and you, they would throw me off.
[01:12:28]  They would literally fucking kill you.
[01:12:29]  Yeah, they would throw you off.
[01:12:31]  No, the IDF would be a little bit more.
[01:12:32]  You do have to admit that argument, though, Rathbone, and I see a lot of people make it.
[01:12:36]  It's that Tel Aviv is arguably one of the gay cities in America.
[01:12:38]  It's one of the gayest, you know, obviously very friendly to the gays.
[01:12:42]  And a lot of progressives are very pro-gay.
[01:12:45]  And then you see Hamas and culturally, Islam is not necessarily Sharia.
[01:12:51]  We should not bomb their entire life.
[01:12:52]  No, I agree.
[01:12:53]  I don't think we should bomb them because of how they domestically look at their culture.
[01:12:56]  But you can just see how that argument does kind of create.
[01:13:01]  Sure.
[01:13:02]  But also, I also don't think that Israel is sympathetic to gays necessarily because gay marriage is outlawed.
[01:13:09]  Yeah, you are right about that.
[01:13:11]  But it's just they are more friendly to gays.
[01:13:13]  So you see that argument from the left where it's like, hey, if you're pro-LGBTQ, then why would you be in Palestine?
[01:13:18]  I'm just saying that is a tough argument, you know, because you're like.
[01:13:21]  Because I debate both sides.
[01:13:22]  We're having a debate.
[01:13:23]  To me, it's not a good argument because you're trying to run cover for the IDF bombing indiscriminately.
[01:13:30]  What do you say indiscriminately, right?
[01:13:32]  What do you mean by that?
[01:13:33]  I mean that they blowing up hospitals on TV.
[01:13:36]  Indiscriminately I mean look at the mean wherever yeah, we're right here this all day They admit, though, Michael, that they make mistakes.
[01:13:43]  And sometimes it was a mistake.
[01:13:44]  We bombed that Catholic Church.
[01:13:45]  It was a mistake that we bombed.
[01:13:50]  I don't think they're making mistakes.
[01:13:51]  I know they're very talented and know what the hell they're doing.
[01:13:54]  I mean, look, you can make that argument that there's mistakes that happen in war.
[01:14:00]  And I think that that would be a valid argument.
[01:14:03]  I think that you should call them out when they do something wrong.
[01:14:06]  And I think that you should.
[01:14:08]  No, you don't.
[01:14:09]  Well, Rethen, you made a good point.
[01:14:10]  Is this a war?
[01:14:11]  Because if it's an asymmetrical power struggle where one person has all the bombs and the other people have no food, how is this a war, right?
[01:14:18]  I mean, isn't a war have to be a little more 50-50, 60-40 if it's 99 versus 1% again.
[01:14:25]  Are you saying that if a weaker enemy commits that act that was happening?
[01:14:30]  Well, it's like you're saying how they're not even a country.
[01:14:31]  Well, then in that case, they're not even an enemy.
[01:14:33]  And then really, they shouldn't even be fighting.
[01:14:35]  Well, I mean, one could make the argument that it is a civil war.
[01:14:38]  Well, you know, the Jews and Auschwitz were a weaker enemy.
[01:14:41]  So I think maybe, according to your argument, more of them should have.
[01:14:45]  Yeah, but I mean, that's a...
[01:14:47]  You know, we should just terror bomb Auschwitz.
[01:14:47]  We should just terror bomb Auschwitz, carpet bomb Auschwitz.
[01:14:51]  If you look at it that way, the Jews were—where was the Jews' army?
[01:14:55]  What was exactly?
[01:14:56]  Yeah, no, but I'm saying, did they have it?
[01:14:57]  They had resistance movements, yes.
[01:14:59]  What was the resistance movement for the people?
[01:15:01]  Well, I mean, famously, you had the Jewish resistance in the Warsaw ghetto in 1943.
[01:15:05]  So when that was an atrocity, yeah, well, they, I mean, listen, they weren't able to fight back.
[01:15:10]  They had to hide.
[01:15:11]  Well, yeah, according to your argument, if they're not able to fight back, there's Hamas your enemy.
[01:15:14]  They deserve it.
[01:15:15]  Is Hamas a resistance group for aka militia, aka military?
[01:15:19]  If it is, then there's a military.
[01:15:21]  It's it's it's fucking great.
[01:15:23]  It might have they're an armed resistance group, but I wouldn't classify them as the Wehrmacht or the Russian army or anything like this.
[01:15:32]  They don't have the infrastructure.
[01:15:33]  They've been denied and that's the thing is that Israel has denied them military infrastructure, healthcare infrastructure, education infrastructure.
[01:15:40]  What do you mean?
[01:15:42]  By bombing them relentlessly.
[01:15:43]  And this is all before October 7th, I'm talking about going back decades.
[01:15:47]  2014, Operation Protective Edge, worst atrocity since October 7th, since this current jurisdiction.
[01:15:54]  No, no, no, no, no.
[01:15:56]  No, it wasn't.
[01:15:57]  It was not.
[01:15:58]  It was a pretext for a larger invasion.
[01:16:01]  And that same thing played out in Operation Cast Lead in 2009.
[01:16:05]  I mean, it's what the Israelis acknowledge is mowing the lawn.
[01:16:08]  They have to periodically go in there and mow the lawn.
[01:16:10]  What does mow the lawn mean?
[01:16:12]  It means massacre a bunch of people, destroy all their buildings, and then blockade them from having access to actually reconstruct.
[01:16:20]  See, we're never going to be able to get anywhere in this conversation because earlier you said that Hamas is not a terrorist group, right?
[01:16:28]  They're an armed resistance group.
[01:16:29]  They're an armed resistance group, right?
[01:16:30]  Yeah, because they're an occupied people.
[01:16:32]  So you said earlier.
[01:16:33]  You're an occupied people.
[01:16:34]  You said earlier that you hide the IDF as a terrorist group.
[01:16:36]  You said earlier that you were in the majority.
[01:16:38]  You're like, I'm in the majority and that they're losing the war.
[01:16:41]  TikTok, I think it's 80% pro-Palestine.
[01:16:43]  Yeah, but TikTok is a communist Chinese unflux.
[01:16:47]  But it's just a way to run a litany test of kind of seeing where people lose a patient.
[01:16:50]  But I mean, look, let's talk about that real quick, right?
[01:16:52]  These online polls, you guys are living, not you guys, but people.
[01:16:56]  Some people are living in the online world, and they're not in the real world.
[01:17:01]  There's a different world.
[01:17:02]  It is a completely different world.
[01:17:04]  When you take a poll on X, how many people that are voting on it are bots?
[01:17:08]  How many people are voting on it on 50 different people?
[01:17:11]  Israel's not losing the propaganda war just because of bots.
[01:17:13]  I'm trying to blame it all on bots.
[01:17:15]  They probably have the most bots.
[01:17:17]  Well, it's fair to say, too, like among Gen Z, I think Israel's support has completely collapsed on the right.
[01:17:21]  I go to these cults.
[01:17:22]  I wouldn't exactly.
[01:17:23]  Zach, that's why I'm getting kind of more radicalized because I do believe in Israel's right to survive.
[01:17:28]  I do believe that they should have a piece of the pie there, but I also believe in a two-state solution.
[01:17:32]  I believe the Palestinians should have a ruler.
[01:17:33]  Well, and that's why I think this kind of gets at it.
[01:17:36]  I think for Israel, they do feel like there is a time, like they have a limited amount of time to make things happen.
[01:17:41]  Well, they just did the Red Heifer, and you saw Adam King talk about this.
[01:17:45]  Now they're trying to build the third temple.
[01:17:46]  So, I mean, obviously, they have some big plans.

=== Mainstream Media Silence (15:27) ===

[01:17:51]  But real quick, now let's talk about, because we're talking about the propaganda war.
[01:17:54]  Zach, I want to get your opinion on this.
[01:17:57]  And I know this isn't necessarily Israel-Palestine, but doesn't it frustrate you when you see this guy, Tom Alexander, who's a cybersecurity executive for Benjamin Netanyahu, gets caught in a pedophile staying?
[01:18:06]  And, you know, I'm not even really mad that they extradited him.
[01:18:09]  I kind of understand they want to protect him.
[01:18:11]  He's an important guy.
[01:18:12]  But what makes me mad is that you haven't seen any mainstream media coverage of this.
[01:18:16]  Have you noticed that?
[01:18:16]  I know you and I see it a lot on Twitter, but you're not seeing it to a level that if this was a Russian cybersecurity, if this was a Palestinian cybersecurity directive, if this was a cybersecurity directive for basically any other country, it would have been you couldn't have not heard about it.
[01:18:31]  But instead, you have people like me, you know, that don't have that many followers and smaller accounts sharing this.
[01:18:37]  Don't you think it's kind of weird that stuff like that happens and it's not a bigger story?
[01:18:40]  Well, I don't think it's necessarily weird what happened.
[01:18:43]  First of all, I want to clarify.
[01:18:44]  Think that this guy should be buried underneath a prison, right?
[01:18:47]  So, this is not a defense of the man, right?
[01:18:51]  He's a disgusting pedophile and, well, from let's say innocent until proven guilty, but pretty sure he's guilty.
[01:18:58]  So, what I'm saying is, I don't think it's strange that he went back to Israel because he's from Israel, right?
[01:19:06]  He went through the process.
[01:19:07]  I'm talking more about the media coverage of it.
[01:19:09]  Oh, the media coverage on it.
[01:19:10]  No, they should cover it.
[01:19:11]  They should absolutely cover it.
[01:19:11]  But you know what?
[01:19:12]  I like it when things are covered evenly and equally, right?
[01:19:16]  They're covering, if they were to cover only him and leave out the fact that a pastor was also arrested in that sting, right?
[01:19:24]  So, the argument that the pastor didn't work for Billy Grant, he wasn't a Joel Olstein's pastor.
[01:19:30]  I mean, but the argument that I'm seeing online, and I know that this is kind of separate from the media coverage, which I think should they should cover it.
[01:19:36]  Absolutely.
[01:19:37]  They should definitely cover it.
[01:19:38]  And I don't know why they're not covering it.
[01:19:39]  And maybe somebody has, maybe you have an actual.
[01:19:42]  Maybe Israel has a lot of power in our media.
[01:19:44]  You have an argument for Israel's like, don't talk about that shit.
[01:19:48]  And I think that's wrong.
[01:19:49]  So we can agree there.
[01:19:51]  But I think that some of the rhetoric online is that there's some grand conspiracy.
[01:19:56]  And I don't see that.
[01:19:57]  What I don't see is some like the Jews pulled some strings and that's why.
[01:20:04]  No, he was arrested, arraigned, indicted, and let go under the same conditions as everyone else in that sting.
[01:20:12]  That is, they didn't take anyone's passport.
[01:20:14]  They didn't restrict anyone's travel.
[01:20:16]  And that's common for that area.
[01:20:18]  Like, that's common for that.
[01:20:19]  Listen, I'm familiar with bonds.
[01:20:20]  You got a $10,000 bond.
[01:20:21]  He is technically allowed to leave if the judge didn't give him a restriction, which that was the case.
[01:20:25]  But I'm just saying.
[01:20:26]  Here's when you'll hear me go and like full send on agreement with all these other people.
[01:20:33]  If he does not come back for his trial and Israel does not extradite him, then you'll hear me make an argument that that's absolutely fucking bullshit.
[01:20:43]  You can't do that.
[01:20:44]  Get him back here now or we'll have a problem with Israel.
[01:20:48]  The DA Sigal Chada, you know, she said it was not her.
[01:20:53]  It was a judge.
[01:20:53]  No, it wasn't her.
[01:20:55]  It's a federal case and she kicked it down and then blamed them for their mishandling of it.
[01:21:00]  But it seems pretty.
[01:21:01]  Yeah, but if she had to do it.
[01:21:02]  There was something weird with that.
[01:21:03]  But at the same time, though, because that was, I know it's a felony, but it's not actually that uncommon for them to make it a state case and not a federal case, you know, unless they had a ton of evidence.
[01:21:12]  I mean, I'm not, you know, in fact, if she would, if she were to take it, it would have been.
[01:21:16]  She definitely gave him favorable treatment.
[01:21:17]  I agree with you on that.
[01:21:18]  I'm just saying for that crime, because he didn't actually rape the kid, he was trying to.
[01:21:22]  It's whatever.
[01:21:23]  People do get bonded for that.
[01:21:25]  His $10,000 bond is actually pretty standard.
[01:21:27]  I think he's a stand-up guy.
[01:21:29]  Oh, no.
[01:21:29]  Isn't he the head of the cybersecurity?
[01:21:31]  He's the head of the cybersecurity.
[01:21:32]  And in fact, he was on the record in an interview talking about how they get 90% of pro-Palestinian anti-Israel content off of Facebook and Instagram.
[01:21:41]  He said.
[01:21:42]  He's a piece.
[01:21:42]  He's a piece of shit.
[01:21:43]  He was let go by a liberal judge.
[01:21:44]  I think that if the DA.
[01:21:46]  He hasn't been let go yet.
[01:21:47]  He just got to leave the country.
[01:21:48]  There's not always a standard operating procedure for a felony.
[01:21:50]  I think that if the DA actually did put her finger on it, then that actually would have looked worse because then it would have been like maybe a conflict.
[01:21:59]  That's why I think that she was like, listen, I don't want anything to do with it.
[01:22:02]  You know, kick it out of the state.
[01:22:03]  It could have been a conflict of interest.
[01:22:04]  So a liberal judge let him go, but he also let everyone else go.
[01:22:08]  Everybody else got it.
[01:22:09]  I'm just more mad that the media coverage doesn't talk about it because I think, you know, Israel should make a statement too.
[01:22:14]  Yeah, and Viju Nanyahu lied about it.
[01:22:16]  He said, oh, he just got detained.
[01:22:18]  He didn't get arrested.
[01:22:19]  So that's why I get frustrated is the misinformation.
[01:22:22]  I just want Israel to get away from the people.
[01:22:22]  That's a valid criticism of Israel.
[01:22:24]  If they're going to bomb and do this stuff, just be a little more honest about it because they have nothing to hide.
[01:22:28]  There are valid criticisms of Israel.
[01:22:31]  This is not.
[01:22:32]  I'm not a loyalist, right?
[01:22:34]  There are valid criticisms of Israel.
[01:22:36]  There are valid criticisms of America.
[01:22:38]  There are valid criticisms of every nation, every government.
[01:22:42]  Our own government has done some shady fucking shit.
[01:22:46]  And I have been very vocal about it.
[01:22:47]  So anybody that's making any arguments against Israel, please do, as long as they're valid, as long as they're objective.
[01:22:54]  Well, Rathbun's got one right now.
[01:22:56]  Well, no, I was just actually the thing I was, I just thought the whole story about the Tom Alexandrovich and his extradition, wasn't he in Las Vegas for a cybersecurity conference?
[01:23:07]  For a cybersecurity conference, he's like the head of cybersecurity.
[01:23:10]  He's supposed to be texting a kid.
[01:23:12]  Yeah, it's just all, it's just really an interesting irony.
[01:23:16]  That doesn't mean all Jews are bad or child predators.
[01:23:19]  That's what they're going to try to clip it because we're talking about this.
[01:23:21]  But I just get frustrated because the media does have a lot of control of the narrative.
[01:23:26]  And when it comes to Israel, especially, they're not very critical.
[01:23:29]  And I think that that's done on purpose.
[01:23:30]  And that's why on social media, the propaganda war, Israel's losing so bad, because people are like, shit, like, I want to talk about this and I don't have any outlets.
[01:23:38]  So I think that's why the woke right, and that's why I want to kind of get to the woke right.
[01:23:41]  A lot of conservatives.
[01:23:42]  And Rathbun, you go first.
[01:23:43]  What do you see about the infighting between conservatives that are pro-Israel and anti-Israel?
[01:23:48]  What do I see about the conservatives between?
[01:23:54]  I look at it as a fraction in the ruling class.
[01:23:58]  But you see, like Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson, people that I like, they're getting critiqued.
[01:24:02]  They're saying ultimately agree with their politics.
[01:24:06]  I think that they're right.
[01:24:07]  And so I can be critical of them and accept that they're right in this situation when they condemn Israel.
[01:24:14]  But I don't think that ultimately their motives are too good.
[01:24:18]  What do you think their motives just clicks is what you're trying to do?
[01:24:21]  No.
[01:24:22]  Because speaking out against Israel does not help your career.
[01:24:25]  It hurts your career in every sense.
[01:24:27]  You know, I think maybe they're perhaps it's, I don't really indulge in their content, okay?
[01:24:37]  But I would say that I think that it's there's they're America first kind of conservative.
[01:24:45]  Well, the reason why I bring that up is because Misfit is fighting with conservatives all the time.
[01:24:48]  You know, he's really not.
[01:24:49]  Now you're more of a progressive or leftist, whatever you want to describe yourself.
[01:24:53]  I'm just saying usually it's he's fighting against Jake Shields or some other guy that is a Trump supporter that is anti-Israel.
[01:25:01]  I find it really interesting.
[01:25:02]  Again, I don't side with them, but I think that they're right in that particular.
[01:25:11]  Like we're really more in the middle.
[01:25:12]  And there's obviously some, like I'm more conservative, but I do think we should have socialized health care or caps or something to make healthcare more affordable.
[01:25:20]  I think they're imperial neocons and they like imperialism and they like to do all these things, but I think they see with Israel, and it's true, Israel is an albatross around our neck.
[01:25:30]  They're a liability.
[01:25:31]  They're a $3 billion money pit every year.
[01:25:34]  That's a small amount.
[01:25:36]  If we talk about the $3 billion, isn't that kind of small potatoes in relation to what we give other countries and stuff?
[01:25:41]  I mean, are they the number one?
[01:25:43]  I think Jordan Egypt's number two, but we give them like $2 billion.
[01:25:47]  It's like a one-tenth of 1% of the funding.
[01:25:50]  I mean, it is a lot of money, but it is kind of like small.
[01:25:54]  I think that's $3 billion in unconditional aid.
[01:25:56]  I'm just saying in the past two years, I mean, we've given tens upon tensions.
[01:26:00]  We've given, I think, $300 over $300 billion once genocide started since post-October 7th.
[01:26:06]  There has been not 15 hours has gone by without a shipment of weapons from the United States to Israel.
[01:26:13]  And I think that's insane.
[01:26:15]  Good, lovely.
[01:26:15]  That's where we don't agree.
[01:26:17]  I thought you're anti-war, though.
[01:26:18]  Yeah.
[01:26:19]  I'm not anti-war.
[01:26:21]  I think that war is necessary when it's necessary.
[01:26:23]  I think that if we were anti-war when Hitler was doing his thing, then Hitler fucking speaking German.
[01:26:32]  Well, it's funny that you bring up World War II because America actually didn't get into that conflict until after Pearl Harbor and they tried whatever they could to not get involved in the world.
[01:26:40]  That is a very good point because I'm seeing a lot of isolationists and a lot of nationalists who are saying like are anti-interventionists who are saying like, oh, we should go back to that, that mentality.
[01:26:51]  Like last time America tried that shit.
[01:26:54]  This is the thing.
[01:26:55]  When you are not a force that is sort of, I don't think that we should be totally interventionalists.
[01:27:01]  I think that there's a happy medium between isolationism and interventionism where you just take only the necessary steps to stop evil that's happening.
[01:27:11]  Because if it's going to affect us, if you're America first, you should be looking at who are our enemies, who are our threats, and how do we stop that threat.
[01:27:19]  And I think I would make the argument that Hitler was a threat to the Jews, but he was also a threat to America.
[01:27:25]  Yeah, but you're being naive.
[01:27:26]  When you look at America's biggest export basically being bombs or the military-industrial complex, America is only encouraged by more war.
[01:27:33]  And you know what?
[01:27:33]  Oh, my God.
[01:27:35]  There's a happy medium between intervention.
[01:27:37]  I don't like the way we do it right now.
[01:27:38]  I'm not saying I'm not a fucking Bush Republican.
[01:27:41]  You say we're fighting evil, and I think you made the claim that like religions or religious ideology drives foreign policy.
[01:27:48]  But we're fighting resistance.
[01:27:50]  I think that's a, I don't agree with that assessment.
[01:27:53]  I think economic systems drive military and political events.
[01:27:56]  It all stems back to the economy that we have.
[01:27:59]  And you know, for example, the reason that Israel is allowed to do what it's allowed to do is because the people in power are benefiting from it economically.
[01:28:10]  Why can't I just make your argument?
[01:28:11]  It's imperative of our economy.
[01:28:13]  Well, why can't I just make your argument?
[01:28:15]  We're just being resistance to the people.
[01:28:17]  Well, because you're in your feelings.
[01:28:20]  No, but that's what I'm saying.
[01:28:21]  I forgot to bring crayons to the street.
[01:28:23]  You make the argument that if there's a threat...
[01:28:25]  I'm trying to tell you that this is necessary.
[01:28:27]  Yeah, because again, Israel under international law and according to international institutions which are administering international law, Israel is an occupying force where you can cope and brood and seethe about it all you want, but that's the truth.
[01:28:41]  But there is something to be said, too, is like, I do think, I disagree with the characterization that American foreign policy is strictly, I mean, not strictly, but largely driven by economic, because you can look at like our embargo of South Africa, for example.
[01:28:53]  It would be extremely beneficial for the American elite to have the arrangement that they had in South Africa because of mineral extraction, direct access, and that sort of thing.
[01:29:03]  And then they place an embargo because of ideology, right?
[01:29:05]  It's wrong to, apartheid was morally wrong.
[01:29:08]  So obviously as a motive.
[01:29:10]  So there's been moments in America.
[01:29:11]  Sure, sure.
[01:29:13]  I think of it like there's the economic base and then there's the superstructure of culture, social, political life, and ideas.
[01:29:20]  And the economic base gives life to all society, politics, culture, and influences it greatly.
[01:29:29]  However, there are times when you can see that culture also influences the economic base.
[01:29:36]  I think I'm just making a broad thesis here by saying that economic systems, generally speaking, drive foreign policy, drive military and political events.
[01:29:46]  I think you'd have to say that every government has a little religious influence and every religion has a little political influence.
[01:29:51]  So, you know, there is a lot of people.
[01:29:52]  Because you look at the global war on terror, for example.
[01:29:55]  I don't think it's a fair characterization people reduce it just down to oil.
[01:29:58]  Like there's obviously a lot more moving parts.
[01:30:00]  there was obviously sort of a bullshit the oil I mean we had some but that Trump said where's the oil And it's all very salient.
[01:30:06]  Where's the weapons of the world?
[01:30:09]  We have more petroleum, oil, and gas in Pennsylvania than they have.
[01:30:13]  Let's take Henry Kissinger at his word when he said that to control people, you got to control their food.
[01:30:18]  And if you want to control countries, you've got to control their oil.
[01:30:20]  And that's empires do empire shit.
[01:30:23]  Empires plan accordingly.
[01:30:24]  The United States is an empire.
[01:30:26]  It has sought, ever since the 1950s, the State Department, Dwight D. Eisenhower, were salivating over the Arabian Peninsula, which had the largest oil reserves in the entire earth, in the entire world, and it was classified as the greatest material prize in world history.
[01:30:44]  That's from the State Department memo in the 1950s.
[01:30:47]  So, you know, and then policy planners came along after that, and they instituted policies to where they could break up Arab indigenous nationalism in that region.
[01:30:58]  And that was all in an effort to control the oil.
[01:31:00]  And we don't even need the oil.
[01:31:02]  We don't use the oil.
[01:31:03]  We just need to control the oil.
[01:31:05]  Because if we have their hand on the spigot, then we can control these countries.
[01:31:08]  And we can, it's another lever of geopolitical strategic power.
[01:31:12]  But would you also agree that if there is a perceived threat, then a nation has a duty to, I guess you could say, engage in conflict to prevent that threat from happening?
[01:31:27]  Sure.
[01:31:27]  I mean, so the argument that I would make against you is some, not all, some of the interventionism that we do is just like your argument that you think like, oh, well, Israel is occupying Hamas, so Hamas is resistant.
[01:31:39]  You can say America is just a resistance force that's fighting another evil force that's going to be a threat to our sovereignty.
[01:31:48]  Where is America being threatened by its contiguous, at its contiguous border?
[01:31:52]  Well, let's go with Operation Midnight Hammer.
[01:31:56]  You have Iran, you have the Ayatollah, who's, I would say that it's pretty widely agreed upon that they don't view us very favorably, and they are enriching uranium way past the point of civilian use.
[01:32:09]  And they have these, you know, like these facilities that are that are, you know, I would say brother producers.
[01:32:16]  They're living in the nuclear age and nuclear energy is just, it can be for civilian use.
[01:32:21]  It doesn't necessarily be available.
[01:32:22]  But it's at 20% 20% or something like that.
[01:32:25]  This is funny that I love that you want to bring up Iran because there's only one country that is in violation of the non-proliferation treaty and that's Israel.
[01:32:32]  Israel actually has nuclear weapons.
[01:32:33]  Do you think Iran's a resistance group or is it a terrorist organization?
[01:32:36]  I would say Iran is a part of the subordinate aspect between the principal contradiction of imperial capitalism versus indigenous nationalism in the region of the Middle East.
[01:32:45]  There is no analog that you can say Iranians are posturing in the Western Hemisphere the way that the United States is posturing that you think is a terrorist group?
[01:32:55]  I want to say all my Persian friends and Iranian friends are actually pretty laid back.
[01:32:59]  This is actually a good question.
[01:33:00]  All right, let's hold on.
[01:33:02]  Let's go through the list, Andrew.

=== Regime Changes and Their Consequences (01:40) ===

[01:33:04]  Hold on, let's go through the list.
[01:33:05]  ISIS, terrorists or resistance?
[01:33:07]  ISIS is a terrorist organization.
[01:33:08]  Okay, cool.
[01:33:10]  No, we created Mujahideen, but real quick, yeah.
[01:33:12]  Israel created the people don't talk about it.
[01:33:18]  Real quick, right.
[01:33:18]  I want to make this point, though.
[01:33:19]  The Mujahideen that became ISIS, that became the terror organization that we fought in the Middle East, we created, we funded them to fight Russia.
[01:33:28]  So that's when people say it was created by the Jews because there was some Jewish influence to do that.
[01:33:33]  But I'm saying America did that.
[01:33:34]  We funded it.
[01:33:35]  We created the modern day or the origin of ISIS.
[01:33:38]  Fumbled regime changes are definitely historically accurate.
[01:33:42]  And I think that that would qualify as one of them.
[01:33:45]  But imagine if they did a regime change against the United States.
[01:33:51]  You know how many successful regime changes there have been?
[01:33:53]  We've done them in Africa.
[01:33:54]  We've done them in the Middle East.
[01:33:55]  Successful to the people in the region.
[01:33:57]  Well, Mumar Gaddafi, actually, his people loved him.
[01:34:01]  They had basically a very successful socialist country.
[01:34:04]  And then when he tried to put his money on the African dinar, his petroleum, oil and gas money to take it off the petrodollar.
[01:34:11]  No, no.
[01:34:11]  They killed him.
[01:34:12]  And that regime changed.
[01:34:13]  Actually, the quality of life has gotten much worse in Libya.
[01:34:15]  And now they have slaves.
[01:34:17]  And there was a short time ago with Gaddafi.
[01:34:19]  They didn't have slavery.
[01:34:20]  So, I mean, that regime change was worse for the people of Libya, probably better for us.
[01:34:25]  I think there's one theme playing out across the world, and that is when indigenous people living in wherever, when they try to appropriate their land, their resources, and labor for themselves, and it is antithetical to American capital accumulation, then they deserve to be either bombed, starved.

=== Promoting Jewish Supremacy (08:06) ===

[01:34:45]  The whole array of tools that the United States has at their disposal will be met against these people.
[01:34:52]  And that's what we see play out across the world.
[01:34:56]  And that's what's your argument against Israel having a right?
[01:35:00]  You know, I'm a two-state solution guy.
[01:35:02]  It sounds like you don't even want Israel to have a state.
[01:35:06]  Well, I think what is Israel?
[01:35:08]  Israel is a state that is predicated on the foundation of establishing Jewish supremacy.
[01:35:14]  So right there, it's already baked into the equation of the formulation of the state of Israel is an apartheid state.
[01:35:21]  Yeah, because that's like saying Italy doesn't have a right to exist.
[01:35:27]  I'm just saying, you know, let's be real.
[01:35:29]  Like, I mean, I can see some arguments and criticism of Israel, very fair.
[01:35:33]  But like, I think they obviously just have the right to exist.
[01:35:37]  So you don't even think that they deserve like a little piece of life?
[01:35:39]  I think that there should be one state, and I think that that should be a state where people have—this is crazy, right?
[01:35:45]  We're living in America, but I think that state should have equal rights for all people.
[01:35:49]  That's Israel.
[01:35:50]  That's insane.
[01:35:50]  That's the current state of Israel.
[01:35:51]  No, no, no.
[01:35:52]  That's not.
[01:35:52]  Because Israel is an apartheid state, and that's what it's legally speaking.
[01:35:56]  ICJ has concluded is an apartheid state, is an instituting apartheid.
[01:35:59]  So it's not a problem.
[01:36:00]  It's not equal rights for Israel.
[01:36:01]  It doesn't make it true.
[01:36:03]  So here's, let's see, the Muslims.
[01:36:04]  I think you could argue America is an apartheid state, you know, a little bit.
[01:36:08]  Okay, Mansur Abbas, right?
[01:36:12]  Sunni Muslim, prominent figure, served as minister without portfolio in the 2021 coalition government under the prime minister, Nafali Bennett.
[01:36:19]  There's Muslims, Iman Khatib, Ahmed TB.
[01:36:24]  You mean these are nice little anecdotes you can tell yourself?
[01:36:27]  Hold on.
[01:36:27]  So if it's a Jewish supremacy state, you're talking about the modern nation, the modern nation state.
[01:36:32]  So you would say that they are promoting Jewish supremacy, yet they are putting Muslims in the United States.
[01:36:36]  I'm not saying that.
[01:36:37]  That's what they said.
[01:36:38]  No, but they're saying Jews have special rights.
[01:36:41]  They're allowed to be first-rate citizenship.
[01:36:44]  How does a nationalist supremacist state have Muslims working in their government?
[01:36:49]  They're on their freaking Supreme Court.
[01:36:52]  It doesn't vibe with their actions.
[01:36:53]  Their actions are not showing.
[01:36:55]  No, their actions are that they're not.
[01:36:56]  Well, the government's secular, technically, so the government is not religious.
[01:37:00]  So that's why they're okay with that.
[01:37:01]  Yeah, but what I'm saying is the claim is that they're promoting Jewish supremacy.
[01:37:06]  That's a Jewish Zionist minority.
[01:37:10]  Are you talking about the religion?
[01:37:11]  And the land is ethnically Muslim and ethnically Palestinian.
[01:37:14]  Are you talking about the religion or the ethnicity?
[01:37:17]  What do you mean?
[01:37:18]  You're saying they're promoting Jewish supremacy.
[01:37:21]  What kind of Jewish?
[01:37:22]  Because it's a double meaning.
[01:37:23]  Have you ever met a Jewish person?
[01:37:24]  They all think they're very important, right?
[01:37:25]  I mean, I'm just saying.
[01:37:27]  Aren't you Jewish?
[01:37:28]  Yeah, kind of.
[01:37:28]  I'm just saying, you know, you think a lot of yourself.
[01:37:31]  Well, exactly.
[01:37:32]  And I'm confident.
[01:37:33]  And so you have to realize that I do believe that, and you might say Jewish immemoriality is a negative thing.
[01:37:38]  I think it's a positive thing because I think they're a very proud people.
[01:37:41]  They want to have a nation state.
[01:37:43]  It's fine to think that you're a proud person.
[01:37:45]  Yeah, well, I mean, it's like there's a difference between like Jewish pride or national pride.
[01:37:50]  I think that we have that.
[01:37:51]  I'm proud to be an American.
[01:37:53]  I'm proud to be white even.
[01:37:54]  I mean, I have pride in my ethnicity.
[01:37:56]  I have pride in my country.
[01:37:58]  Nothing wrong with that.
[01:38:00]  I don't think that makes it a supremacist state.
[01:38:02]  I think religious ideologies are not nationalism.
[01:38:04]  I'm not saying it's not a bad thing.
[01:38:05]  I don't think that Nazi Germany was a supremacist state.
[01:38:07]  They thought that they were...
[01:38:07]  Aryan supremacy.
[01:38:08]  They thought that they were better, and there was a specific...
[01:38:11]  Do you think that there were Jews on Hitler's council?
[01:38:14]  No.
[01:38:15]  Like there was like it's it's to say supremacy and then have a country that has a very diverse group of people throughout their government, throughout their population.
[01:38:24]  It doesn't job.
[01:38:25]  Well, actually, you bring up a good point because we talk about World War II a lot and you hear now this, you know, constantly talk about the Holocaust.
[01:38:31]  And then you have people like even me for being a little critical of Israel.
[01:38:34]  They might, you know, consider me a Nazi, even though I'm not.
[01:38:37]  But a friend of mine, Jake Shields, he has CTE, but they call him a Nazi.
[01:38:41]  I love Jake.
[01:38:41]  But this is where I get this is where it gets really frustrating for me because if you actually look at World War II and you look at the thing called Operation Paperclip, that is where we actually took the top Nazi spies and some of the top Nazi soldiers.
[01:38:53]  And Warner von Braun was a rocket scientist that used rockets to decimate Poland, was an actual Nazi, card carrying, worked for Hitler.
[01:39:02]  He came over here and got to start the NASA program.
[01:39:04]  Nobody called him a Nazi.
[01:39:06]  They said, oh, well, you know, we rehabilitated him.
[01:39:08]  And now we live in an age.
[01:39:11]  I'm saying we rebranded, but now Rathbone is the modern-day Nazi.
[01:39:14]  And that's where I get frustrated because we actually helped the Nazis.
[01:39:17]  But then a guy like this critical of Israel is a Nazi.
[01:39:20]  So that's where it's like we use these WW2 World War II examples.
[01:39:23]  Right.
[01:39:24]  We have a Nazi convoluted term.
[01:39:26]  It doesn't mean anything.
[01:39:27]  It's vacuous of meaning.
[01:39:28]  It's a Nazi collaborator that's that's putting the finger on a lot on the scale of a lot of the things that happen in this country.
[01:39:34]  George Soros, right?
[01:39:35]  George Soros admitted that he admitted that he did kill Jews, right?
[01:39:40]  So, you know, there is that.
[01:39:42]  But, again, going back to this talking point of Jewish supremacy, they are really bad at doing – look, they're really bad at genocide.
[01:39:51]  And they're really bad at doing some.
[01:39:52]  Real quick, the Jews are really powerful and doing really good.
[01:39:55]  They're really powerful.
[01:39:56]  Let's not act like they're not.
[01:39:58]  There's a powerful disparity in their power dynamic on certain institutions.
[01:40:04]  Like, oh, they're really heavily into politics.
[01:40:08]  They're really heavy infantry.
[01:40:09]  They're really heavy influence.
[01:40:11]  Why is that?
[01:40:12]  That's not bad.
[01:40:12]  That's good industries.
[01:40:13]  No, that's Asians are the same way, but nobody's bitching about the Asians.
[01:40:17]  Well, China, I would argue that China is a bigger threat than Israel for our way of life.
[01:40:22]  I would make that argument too.
[01:40:23]  And I think it's a much better argument.
[01:40:24]  But still, I mean, there are, you know, obviously negative.
[01:40:27]  I think that people are, I think that there's a lot of jealousy and resentment over the success of the Jewish people, despite the fact that there has been several extermination events against them historically.
[01:40:35]  And I think that that's where a lot of this leads.
[01:40:38]  It comes.
[01:40:38]  Could it be because they tried to exterminate you and now you feel it's okay to try to exterminate somebody else?
[01:40:43]  Could that be?
[01:40:44]  Who tried to exterminate who?
[01:40:45]  I'm saying because the Jews were systematically exterminated by Nazis, maybe they feel like it's okay to do it to somebody else because they were a victim of it.
[01:40:54]  It's kind of like, and I'm not trying to compare into pedophiles, but a lot of people that are pedophiles were actually sexually abused as a child.
[01:41:00]  So they don't feel like it's okay because they were victims of it.
[01:41:02]  So now Israel feels less bad because they were victims.
[01:41:05]  So now it's okay to victimize somebody else.
[01:41:06]  Yeah, you did it.
[01:41:07]  Yeah, you did it to me, so I can do it to you.
[01:41:08]  I think that argument would be great if they were doing it, but that's the problem.
[01:41:11]  Like I said, there have been more bombs dropped than civilians have been killed.
[01:41:15]  So they're either really shitty at genocide or they're not committing a genocide, right?
[01:41:20]  Like if you use that word, right?
[01:41:22]  John Spencer is a really good person to go to if you really want to understand the actual technical legal definition of the word genocide.
[01:41:30]  And he makes the argument against why Israel isn't, or makes the argument for why Israel is not committing a genocide.
[01:41:35]  And if you actually read his writings, he's making very valid points.
[01:41:39]  They are not committing a genocide.
[01:41:41]  They are not in the terrorism.
[01:41:43]  They are in a war.
[01:41:44]  Nobody's saying that Ukrainians are trying to genocide Russians.
[01:41:47]  Nobody's saying that Russians are trying to genocide Ukrainians.
[01:41:50]  Again, that's a different way.
[01:41:52]  But to your point there, you talk about how they dropped more bombs and people have been killed.
[01:41:55]  You know, that's also a money laundering scheme.
[01:41:57]  It's like when you go to the range and we shoot bullets that we're not actually using it.
[01:42:00]  They're practicing blowing up bombs.
[01:42:02]  They're going to keep using their stockpiles to get more weapons.
[01:42:04]  Also, a lot of those bombs just blow up buildings.
[01:42:08]  Maybe they don't kill a lot of civilians, but they blow up all their infrastructure.
[01:42:11]  Why aren't they blowing up that?
[01:42:12]  They're called a genocide.
[01:42:14]  Like you said earlier.
[01:42:16]  Like you said earlier, where is Hamas's military bases?
[01:42:19]  In those fucking buildings.
[01:42:21]  So what they do is they do a knock.
[01:42:22]  They drop a dud on a building.
[01:42:25]  Everybody out of there, and then they blow up the building.
[01:42:27]  Again, again, what you don't understand is that Israel has been bombing hospitals in Palestine since the 40s.
[01:42:33]  And Hamas has been hiding weapons and hospitals since the 40s.

=== Peace Talks Debate (05:19) ===

[01:42:36]  No, they haven't because Hamas was created in 1987.
[01:42:38]  Well, sure, five.
[01:42:39]  No, wait.
[01:42:40]  Yeah, you're right on that.
[01:42:41]  Yeah, I am right.
[01:42:42]  I'm right on the ground.
[01:42:44]  You got me on that.
[01:42:46]  Israel's been dropping bombs on hospitals since the 1940s.
[01:42:52]  Israel started a war with Lebanon by bombing a Palestinian children's hospital in 1982.
[01:42:59]  That was still five years before Hamas was created.
[01:43:02]  Hamas knows well what Israel is going to do.
[01:43:06]  Why the fuck would they put their military bases in the one place where Israel loves to bomb?
[01:43:16]  You're making very valid arguments for Hamas's strategy while not acknowledging that they are also a terrorist organization.
[01:43:24]  They are literally embedding themselves in with civilians, using them as human shields, right?
[01:43:29]  They are literally saying, I'm going to dress like a civilian.
[01:43:32]  I'm going to hide my weapons in churches.
[01:43:34]  They don't have weapons in bosses.
[01:43:36]  They don't have clothes.
[01:43:37]  They can't make uniforms.
[01:43:39]  They can make them.
[01:43:40]  They can't.
[01:43:41]  They don't have enough.
[01:43:41]  Let's make a matching fucking uniform blockade on the Gaza street.
[01:43:47]  Exactly.
[01:43:48]  If you are telling me that Hamas.
[01:43:49]  I'm done on this, okay?
[01:43:50]  You're telling me that Hamas can't figure out how to dress and distinguish themselves.
[01:44:00]  Netanyahu, look right here.
[01:44:01]  Netanyahu, send them all matching uniforms.
[01:44:04]  The only reason that they're dressing that way is because they can't figure out how to dress the same.
[01:44:08]  Well, it's guerrilla warfare.
[01:44:09]  Let's say we don't.
[01:44:10]  Fucking idiot.
[01:44:11]  Proper uniform.
[01:44:12]  That's a stupid argument.
[01:44:13]  Well, do you have the Kellen?
[01:44:14]  I just texted you something.
[01:44:15]  I don't know if you can pull this up.
[01:44:17]  Give me a second.
[01:44:18]  This is actually a Palestinian in the 1950s.
[01:44:21]  It might take a second.
[01:44:21]  But guys, we have a few minutes left, and we're going to definitely give you guys each a closing argument.
[01:44:26]  I want to say thank you guys for watching this.
[01:44:29]  Tim is still sick, but he is on the men.
[01:44:31]  He is going to be back, so you don't have to look at me and Tate's ugly faces.
[01:44:34]  Well, Tate's handsome.
[01:44:36]  But guys, this has been a spirited debate.
[01:44:38]  I've learned a little, not a lot, but I've had a fun time.
[01:44:43]  And before we wrap things up, I kind of just wanted to play this clip to kind of get your opinion of this.
[01:44:48]  So this is a TikTok.
[01:44:50]  We don't have to watch the whole thing, but I thought this is very interesting.
[01:44:53]  So he's great.
[01:44:55]  Why won't your organization engage in peace talks with the Israelis?
[01:45:03]  You don't mean exactly peace talks, you mean capitulation, surrendering.
[01:45:10]  Why not just talk?
[01:45:12]  Talk to whom?
[01:45:13]  Talk to the Israeli leaders.
[01:45:15]  That's kind of conversation between the sword and the neck, you mean?
[01:45:20]  Well, if there were no swords and no guns in the room, you could still talk.
[01:45:25]  No, I haven't been, I had never seen any talk between a colonialist case and a national liberation movement.
[01:45:34]  But despite this, why not talk?
[01:45:39]  Talk about what?
[01:45:41]  Talk about the possibility of not fighting.
[01:45:47]  Not fighting for what?
[01:45:49]  Not fighting at all, no matter what for.
[01:45:53]  Yeah, people usually fight for something and they stop fighting for something.
[01:45:57]  So you can't tell me even why should we speak about what?
[01:46:00]  Well, stop fighting.
[01:46:02]  Or talk about stop fighting.
[01:46:05]  Why?
[01:46:05]  Talk to stop fighting to stop the death and the misery, the destruction, the pain.
[01:46:11]  The misery and the destruction and the pain and the death of whom?
[01:46:14]  Of Palestinians, of Israelis, of Arabs.
[01:46:18]  Of the Palestinian people who are uprooted, thrown in the camps, living in starvation, killed for 20 years, and forbidden to use even the name Palestinians.
[01:46:29]  They're better that way than dead, though.
[01:46:31]  Maybe to you, but to us, it's not.
[01:46:34]  To us, to liberate our country, to have dignity, to have respect, to have our mere human rights is something as essential as life itself.
[01:46:46]  So that's a pretty strong statement saying that, you know, they're willing to die for this.
[01:46:50]  And, you know, that's in the 1950s.
[01:46:52]  And it's still going on.
[01:46:53]  And I would say that it's even worse now than then.
[01:46:56]  So, I mean, are you, can you be empathetic at all, though, when you see that guy, you know, being occupied by a foreign country?
[01:47:02]  I mean, I guess, can you see his argument?
[01:47:04]  Again, the predication of occupation, which is still debated, but let's just say, let's say, let's just go by what he's saying.
[01:47:12]  Yeah, what he's saying is what he's saying is there is no point in talking.
[01:47:16]  There is no point in trying to create peace.
[01:47:18]  what we are going to do is we are either going to die or win.
[01:47:21]  And that's the argument that...
[01:47:23]  I think he argued that they know they're going to die.
[01:47:25]  I don't even think he argued...
[01:47:26]  Yeah, well, that's because their faith is what drives a lot of this conflict.
[01:47:31]  They want to die.
[01:47:32]  They want to be martyred.
[01:47:33]  They want to be martyred, right?
[01:47:34]  Yeah, they love it.
[01:47:35]  That's the problem with raise families.
[01:47:38]  That's the problem with Islam.
[01:47:39]  No.
[01:47:39]  Islam is a murder-killed death cult, and they will constantly go, I will sacrifice my own people.

=== Friendly Fight Debates (02:37) ===

[01:47:46]  I will hide behind them.
[01:47:46]  I will use them as human shields.
[01:47:48]  We will die because it's better than letting you win or something.
[01:47:53]  I don't know.
[01:47:54]  Yeah, you don't know.
[01:47:54]  Yeah, no, you don't know.
[01:47:55]  So you know what it is.
[01:47:57]  You don't look like Muhammad to me.
[01:47:58]  But I'm saying that guy is the same patriot that you are for America.
[01:48:01]  He's willing to die for his country because he sees somebody coming.
[01:48:04]  That's a false equivalency, right?
[01:48:06]  You're a patriot, and yet you are defending a state that has attacked America in 1967.
[01:48:11]  Israel attacked America.
[01:48:12]  That was an accident.
[01:48:14]  You're talking about the friendly fight.
[01:48:16]  I was wondering when we were going to get to the U.S. Liberty, the friendly fight, which has been tried.
[01:48:21]  Which is where they nailed and both countries have sort of just been like, yep, we acknowledge what happened.
[01:48:26]  Israel apologized.
[01:48:28]  We paid the money.
[01:48:29]  It's all sorted up.
[01:48:30]  Look, fucking, it's just like the argument against, you know, like Ukraine dropping attackums on a beach in Russia.
[01:48:42]  Okay.
[01:48:42]  Now, did Ukraine intentionally try to kill civilians on a beach?
[01:48:46]  That was actually NATO.
[01:48:48]  Right?
[01:48:48]  What is it?
[01:48:49]  That was actually NATO.
[01:48:50]  So NATO.
[01:48:51]  So NATO did it.
[01:48:52]  Okay.
[01:48:52]  Well, either way, when you're saying, okay, they can make a mistake.
[01:48:56]  We don't view it as genocide.
[01:48:57]  We don't hyperfixate it on it.
[01:48:59]  We don't call it the worst atrocity that's ever happened in this war.
[01:49:02]  And the reason you don't do that is because Russia's the one who invaded Ukraine, right?
[01:49:06]  And they are fighting however they feel necessary, and the mistakes are going to be made.
[01:49:10]  So if you're arguing that there's never a mistake in a war and that wasn't a mistake on the USS Liberty, it was.
[01:49:16]  They agreed to it.
[01:49:17]  They acknowledged it.
[01:49:18]  They apologized for it.
[01:49:20]  I don't understand what the fucking hype.
[01:49:22]  They said they were sorry, guys.
[01:49:25]  Yeah, this guy is extremely based, and he's saying there is no point in talking at this point because I want to remind you all that the Balfour Declaration was made in 1917.
[01:49:36]  And when Palestinians got wind of what was, they were going to be ethnically cleansed by the British Empire at the behest of the Zionist movement, they did everything that they possibly could to plead to the British Empire to safeguard their rights as humans, as indigenous people in living on that land.
[01:50:00]  They formed seven separate Arab congresses in the interwar period between 1917 to 1939.

=== Israel's Incremental Expansionism (07:19) ===

[01:50:06]  And every time the British Empire would not lend their ear.
[01:50:12]  They wouldn't even make it, they wouldn't even allow them counsel.
[01:50:20]  In fact, they said that in order for us to listen to you, Palestinians, you must accept that we are coming in and taking your land.
[01:50:27]  And the very thing that they were vying for, which is just their human rights, they had to deny just to get the ear of the king, so to speak.
[01:50:36]  It's true.
[01:50:37]  You know, Conophany, I think is how you say his name.
[01:50:40]  They're at that point.
[01:50:41]  You know, this has been going on for decades and decades.
[01:50:44]  They're done talking.
[01:50:45]  They realize that Israel does not want to talk.
[01:50:48]  it's a settler colony that's uh... hell-bent on incremental expansionism and so out what use what do you left with What do you expect these people?
[01:50:58]  Where have they expanded?
[01:50:58]  Do you want them to?
[01:50:59]  How about let's kind of start with a closing argument.
[01:51:02]  Yeah.
[01:51:02]  Yeah.
[01:51:04]  Should you start it?
[01:51:05]  Should he end it?
[01:51:06]  Or I guess we'll let you end it.
[01:51:09]  Actually, you go first.
[01:51:10]  All right, my quick response is anybody that claims that Israel is an expansionist society is retarded.
[01:51:16]  It hasn't expanded.
[01:51:16]  Oh, come on.
[01:51:18]  It's not an expansionist society.
[01:51:19]  It's not.
[01:51:20]  It's a very...
[01:51:20]  Well, they want more room, right?
[01:51:22]  I mean...
[01:51:22]  I mean, but...
[01:51:23]  But in their own land that they already have, they don't want to.
[01:51:25]  I agree with you that they deserve peace.
[01:51:28]  They're not talking about.
[01:51:28]  I mean, yeah, there's a few Jews that are talking about greater Israel, but nobody's like their most powerful Jews.
[01:51:36]  But I'm saying there's a little smooth room.
[01:51:37]  I mean, there's nothing that the nation's borders should be expanded.
[01:51:42]  It's not anything that's not.
[01:51:43]  it absolutely is but you were speaking earlier about the i'm sorry to go theology again but like the old covenant in genesis where he promises the land from the great river of egypt to what the Yeah, the Euphrates.
[01:51:54]  So there is an expansion that's built into the...
[01:51:57]  The ideology.
[01:51:58]  Yeah, and I mean, look, I would make the argument that if they wanted to, they would kind of have a claim to it.
[01:52:05]  And every argument that's been made by Andrew can be pushed, can be turned back on him by saying that if you actually go the theological argument, then they are the original inhabitants.
[01:52:16]  They are the indigenous people and they are being occupied.
[01:52:18]  Therefore, everything they are doing is resistance against the Palestinians.
[01:52:22]  And you can literally tie their lineage all the way back way before 1948, way before 1967, way before 1920, way before 1900s, way before any of this conflict even started in the modern nation state.
[01:52:34]  Because the miracle book said so.
[01:52:36]  But yeah, but you know what?
[01:52:37]  There's a lot of fucking people that believe in our miracle books.
[01:52:40]  My daddy said so.
[01:52:41]  Well, you know, the Roman Empire, you know, they've been around for a long time.
[01:52:45]  3,000 years ago, yes.
[01:52:47]  Yeah, so what's that?
[01:52:48]  Why is that any, why is that any less valid than your argument?
[01:52:51]  Right, my womb had an ancient history.
[01:52:54]  Well, I was just citing that as like the pushback on the idea that they're not expansionists.
[01:52:58]  Yeah.
[01:52:58]  But I mean, yeah, but has there been any legitimate proposals to expand Israel over the past 80 years?
[01:53:07]  However long?
[01:53:08]  I think they've taken Syria land in the last couple of years.
[01:53:12]  And by how much, you know, I don't think you're going to win this one.
[01:53:14]  I think they are incrementally trying to get bigger.
[01:53:17]  I would say the Muslim countries that have expanded over the past 80 years has been exponentially greater than Israel's even if the biggest one was the Ottoman Empire and they got chopped down to size.
[01:53:28]  So if anything, like the Muslim world has, and partially, actually mostly their own fault, has retracted in power globally.
[01:53:35]  Iran's really the only Gulf states, obviously.
[01:53:38]  But what I'm saying is like the Ottoman Empire was the big player and then they've been chopped down to size.
[01:53:43]  Now there's not really a local power besides Iran.
[01:53:46]  That's a fair point.
[01:53:47]  All right, Rathbone, about two or three minutes.
[01:53:51]  My position has not changed.
[01:53:53]  It's very simple.
[01:53:54]  Israel is an apartheid state committing a genocide.
[01:53:58]  I think genocides are bad.
[01:53:59]  I know that's my hot take.
[01:54:00]  It's very edgy.
[01:54:04]  I don't think that countries that commit genocide and ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity deserve to have their state.
[01:54:13]  I think they should have their statehood revoked according to Article 5 of the UN Charter.
[01:54:18]  That should be what happens.
[01:54:20]  I believe that the two-state solution is a euphemism for Israeli incremental expansionism.
[01:54:26]  The same thing goes for the peace process and the path to peace, which has been the predominant narrative according to the United States and Israelis.
[01:54:39]  And I believe in one state named Palestine that has equal rights for all, regardless of religion, creed, ethnicity.
[01:54:50]  Just like, you know, supposedly how we believe the United States should be.
[01:54:56]  I don't believe that there should be this weird inbred death cult of people that claim that they are better than other ethnic or social groups based on their religious ideology.
[01:55:15]  The way you just ended that described Hamas.
[01:55:19]  And so you think, here's my closing argument.
[01:55:22]  All right.
[01:55:23]  So based on your own logic, okay, Palestine shouldn't exist because you just said that any state that commits crimes against humanity should not exist.
[01:55:32]  And October 7th was a crime against humanity.
[01:55:35]  My opponent here wasn't even able to acknowledge the fact that Hamas is a terrorist organization.
[01:55:42]  Anyone that can't do that shouldn't be taken seriously, right?
[01:55:44]  They're designated a terrorist organization.
[01:55:46]  But again, if you just go back to one day where a group of people filmed themselves committing the worst atrocities we have seen since the fucking Holocaust, then you lose this debate on its face just from that one point.
[01:55:59]  But you've also lost a debate on many other points, right?
[01:56:01]  You said that if genocide is bad, or you say genocide is bad, then you ignore the fact that the people that are living in the region that you think should be a full state have fired thousands and thousands of rockets into another state trying to kill people based off of their ethnicity, based off of their religion, based off of the fact that they are Israeli.
[01:56:23]  That is attempted genocide.
[01:56:25]  And just because they're bad at it doesn't mean that they are not doing it.
[01:56:29]  Okay.
[01:56:32]  There is a charge against people called attempted murder and murder.
[01:56:36]  Okay.
[01:56:36]  So they are attempting a genocide over and over and over again.
[01:56:40]  And again, if you say people that do that shouldn't exist, then by your own logic, they shouldn't exist.
[01:56:47]  And finally, you say that you want a place called Palestine that has equal rights.
[01:56:52]  There is a place called Palestine right now.
[01:56:56]  And in that place, they don't have equal rights.
[01:56:59]  They will throw you off of a fucking rooftop if one is left.
[01:57:02]  And that's if you're gay, if you're a woman that has a fifth grade reading level or higher, if you are a Christian, if you are a Jew, if you are anything other than a Sharia practicing Muslim.

=== Shout Out Your Socials (01:25) ===

[01:57:16]  So, you know, every argument that you've made in this entire debate can be labeled, can be leveled right against the people that you're defending.
[01:57:23]  So, yeah, on that note, I guess thanks for coming, but here's your L. Wow.
[01:57:30]  All right, guys.
[01:57:31]  Before we go, thank you guys for watching.
[01:57:32]  Yeah, we don't do super chats on this show.
[01:57:35]  Maybe we should next time or something.
[01:57:37]  But before we go, shout everybody.
[01:57:39]  Shout out your socials, Rathbone.
[01:57:40]  You go first.
[01:57:41]  Sure.
[01:57:42]  My YouTube page is at Wrathbone with an extra E.
[01:57:45]  And yeah, follow me there.
[01:57:48]  Okay.
[01:57:49]  Yeah, at Real Tate Brown Everywhere.
[01:57:51]  No, the theology debate got shortened pretty quickly, but if you want to go at it, we can go pretty autistic on Twitter.
[01:57:58]  So follow me there.
[01:57:59]  And then everybody needs to go follow Kellen, the money man over there.
[01:58:02]  Good luck money, man.
[01:58:03]  Yeah, follow me at Kellen PDL.
[01:58:05]  I'm basically just on X. Follow me there.
[01:58:07]  Everybody, go follow Kellen.
[01:58:08]  And then Misfit.
[01:58:09]  Yeah, the Misfit Patriot on Twitter and Instagram.
[01:58:12]  And you can follow me on TMP Uncensored on Rumble.
[01:58:15]  And I just want to say thank you to both you guys.
[01:58:17]  You guys handled that well.
[01:58:18]  Very professional.
[01:58:19]  Actually, I'm a little mad that there weren't more drama, more sparks flying.
[01:58:23]  You know, it was a little too respectful, but at the end of the day, you guys both did a great job.
[01:58:26]  And listen, this is a subject that is very challenging to talk about.
[01:58:29]  So I appreciate these guys coming here and being open and candid about subjects that we should talk about more.