The Culture War - Tim Pool - Debating Trump's Deportation of Illegal Aliens | The Culture War LIVE Debate
Aired: 2025-05-09
Duration: 01:54:21


=== Deportation: Just or Unjust? (15:39) ===

[00:00:09]  Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the Culture War Debate Podcast Live.
[00:00:14]  This is our first pilot.
[00:00:16]  We've got a live studio audience for everybody watching at home.
[00:00:19]  We're going to be bringing them up.
[00:00:20]  I encourage heckling, booing, and jeering, which is probably bad news for our friend Pisco.
[00:00:28]  But it's going to be fun.
[00:00:30]  But we do have some serious issues to debate.
[00:00:32]  And the question of today is, was the deportation...
[00:00:37]  Of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, just or unjust?
[00:00:41]  And should the Trump administration bring him back to this country?
[00:00:45]  And with that being said, I would like to throw it first to the gentleman to my right.
[00:00:49]  Would you like to introduce yourself?
[00:00:50]  Yeah, sure.
[00:00:50]  So I'm Pisco.
[00:00:51]  I'm a lawyer.
[00:00:52]  I argue on, you know, the Internet from a left-wing perspective.
[00:00:54]  And I think it's obvious that it was unjust.
[00:00:56]  It was illegal.
[00:00:58]  All right?
[00:00:58]  One of the big problems that conservatives cite with immigration is the fact that it's illegal in the first place.
[00:01:04]  Okay?
[00:01:04]  So if you have a problem...
[00:01:06]  With illegal immigration on the basis of its illegality, surely you should have a problem with deporting people illegally.
[00:01:14]  Unless you think it was the right thing to do to break the law.
[00:01:18]  Do you think it was the right thing to do to break the law?
[00:01:20]  Ask the audience right now.
[00:01:22]  So that's just a collective...
[00:01:24]  I want everyone to notice.
[00:01:25]  You all said you're fine when Trump breaks the law.
[00:01:28]  He admits that he broke the law.
[00:01:30]  And you're cool with it.
[00:01:32]  And they admit that it was against the law to do so.
[00:01:37]  And they promised they're going to do it to US citizens too.
[00:01:43]  You think he's just joking.
[00:01:44]  You think it won't affect you.
[00:01:45]  They've already arrested US citizens for 10 days without due process.
[00:01:48]  They're lying about where he was near the border.
[00:01:51]  They've deported US children who have cancer.
[00:01:54]  So don't think this won't affect you.
[00:01:55]  And notice what you all just did.
[00:01:57]  You all just said, yeah, it's cool.
[00:01:58]  Yeah, it's just for someone to be deported.
[00:02:01]  Illegally.
[00:02:03]  Deported illegally.
[00:02:04]  Alright.
[00:02:05]  So basically, just to finish off, if you're willing to say that, you're willing to say that you want Trump to be a king, that you want him to be a tyrannical fascist, and I would ask you to look yourself in the mirror and really, you know, take a hard look.
[00:02:18]  Is that what you want this country to be?
[00:02:20]  For 24 hours!
[00:02:21]  For 24 hours, yes!
[00:02:23]  We also have, with his opening statement and introduction, this gentleman here!
[00:02:27]  Yeah!
[00:02:28]  Nice to see you all.
[00:02:30]  I'm Will Chamberlain, senior counsel at the Article 3 project.
[00:02:33]  So I think there are three core reasons that the outcome here is substantively just.
[00:02:38]  The first is that had the Trump administration gone through the normal process to lift a withholding of removal, this guy would have been removed 100% of the time for two core reasons.
[00:02:48]  First, he was found to be a member of MS-13 in earlier court proceedings.
[00:02:53]  Once that finding was found and upheld on appeal, He would be a stop from challenging that.
[00:02:58]  Now that Trump has designated the guy as MS-13, rather, to be a foreign terrorist organization, he's not eligible for withholding of removal anymore, so he'd simply have lost no matter what.
[00:03:07]  And the second reason is that in the interim, between the time he got this withholding of removal and now, the 18th Street Gang, which supposedly threatened his mother's papusa shop, a preposterous story from the outset, That 18th Street gang is no longer effective in El Salvador, which was the basis for his supposed fear of persecution, which is why the withholding and removal was granted in the first place.
[00:03:30]  So the outcome wouldn't have changed.
[00:03:33]  This is what we would call, to analogize, harmless error.
[00:03:36]  The second reason it's subsequently just is because the guy's a wife-beating MS-13 gangbanger.
[00:03:41]  Yeah!
[00:03:42]  And who exploited our laws for 14 years.
[00:03:46]  And in fact, the more that comes out about the guy, you're realizing, like...
[00:03:50]  Just what kind of person he is.
[00:03:52]  Threatening his wife and children, telling them that, like, you can't leave me because I'll kill you.
[00:03:56]  Funny thing, I was reading a book about MS-13, and a different MS-13 game editor said the same thing about a girlfriend he was dating.
[00:04:03]  There's this sort of underlying entitlement.
[00:04:06]  But, you know, substantively, just obviously a very bad dude, a human trafficker, the kind of person who drives people, you know, from Texas to Maryland who don't have any luggage.
[00:04:16]  Do you think those people have free will?
[00:04:18]  No, those are captives.
[00:04:20]  And, you know, we can get more into that later.
[00:04:22]  And we will.
[00:04:23]  There's one more man joining us tonight to make sure that there's a little bit of chaos and humor.
[00:04:27]  Yeah, that's what I like.
[00:04:31]  Well...
[00:04:32]  It's primetime 99, and I just want to say, you know, Pisco, you are very smart, but you're still a libtard.
[00:04:38]  But no, I agree.
[00:04:39]  I actually agree with you on this, because whether it was unjust or not, we got the outcome that we want.
[00:04:45]  His big booty Latina is staying in the country, and we need to do this as, you know, a lesson to these other gangbangers and Trendy Arruga adjacent people that if you come to our country and, you know, you bring your big booty Latina, we're going to kick your ass out and keep her.
[00:05:01]  Alex, the Latina in question is a U.S. citizen.
[00:05:04]  I know, but still, she's still a big-booty Latina.
[00:05:06]  I'm saying it doesn't matter.
[00:05:07]  I mean, if the goal is to protect the U.S. citizen Latina from the predations of the Madness 13 gangbanger...
[00:05:13]  I'm saying protect even illegal or legal big-booty Latinas.
[00:05:16]  They carry the same weight in my eyes.
[00:05:17]  I guess not apparently to you.
[00:05:19]  So I'm saying, yeah, she's a legal big-booty Latina, but he learned his lesson.
[00:05:22]  They don't get to go back to El Salvador or wherever you get kicked off to.
[00:05:26]  And that's exactly why Alex is here.
[00:05:28]  Yes.
[00:05:28]  But we are going to be bringing up...
[00:05:30]  Members of the audience, people who have submitted who want to join this debate and give you guys a chance to have your thoughts heard on this matter.
[00:05:36]  But I suppose the question to kick it off, simply, to either of you who wants to start, was the deportation just or unjust?
[00:05:45]  It was unjust.
[00:05:46]  It was illegal.
[00:05:48]  Do you think that...
[00:05:49]  Those aren't synonyms.
[00:05:51]  I understand that, but in this context, do you think it was just for the Trump administration to do an illegal deportation, yes or no?
[00:05:59]  In these circumstances, the outcome was just...
[00:06:03]  I'm asking if the deportation, if you think...
[00:06:05]  Well, I mean, it was mistaken.
[00:06:06]  So they conceded that it's a mistake, right?
[00:06:08]  So was it just to do a mistaken illegal deportation?
[00:06:11]  I mean, the actual substantive outcome here is a just outcome.
[00:06:14]  It's like, I don't want the administration...
[00:06:15]  Whether the outcome was just or not, is the action...
[00:06:18]  The mistaken, in your words, mistaken, illegal deportation, just or not.
[00:06:22]  It's mildly unjust.
[00:06:23]  I actually agree.
[00:06:25]  You actually agree that it was unjust, to be clear.
[00:06:28]  Everyone here agrees it was unjust?
[00:06:30]  No.
[00:06:31]  Okay.
[00:06:31]  So, Tim, do you think that the deportation was just to do an illegal action?
[00:06:36]  See, what you're doing right there is, I'm just going to say, that's not debating, to load the question with, I presume it was illegal first, now answer.
[00:06:44]  Do you agree it was illegal?
[00:06:45]  When did you start beating your wife?
[00:06:47]  Well, do you agree it's illegal?
[00:06:48]  What's loaded about that?
[00:06:49]  So the issue is, is it a crime to make a mistake?
[00:06:52]  Not a crime.
[00:06:53]  It was illegal.
[00:06:54]  Was it illegal, yes or no?
[00:06:56]  No.
[00:06:57]  Nine justices on the Supreme Court unanimously, Will and I, both lawyers, will tell you it was illegal.
[00:07:02]  Will, it was obviously illegal.
[00:07:03]  It was an illegal deportation.
[00:07:05]  It was an illegal deportation.
[00:07:06]  So hold on.
[00:07:07]  You're saying that it was illegal because the Supreme Court said it was?
[00:07:10]  No.
[00:07:10]  It's emphatically the providence and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is.
[00:07:13]  Does the Alien Enemies Act supersede...
[00:07:17]  He wasn't sued under the Alien Enemies Act.
[00:07:18]  Or wasn't deported under the Alien Enemies Act.
[00:07:19]  Stephen Miller claims he was.
[00:07:21]  No, he absolutely wasn't.
[00:07:22]  He's not a Venezuelan.
[00:07:23]  The proclamation for the Alien Enemies Act only applies to Venezuelans.
[00:07:28]  Is that true?
[00:07:29]  Yes, that's true.
[00:07:30]  Say again?
[00:07:31]  Does the Alien Enemies Act apply to El Salvador?
[00:07:33]  The proclamation issued by the president, only to Tendaraa members who are Venezuelans, by its terms, the proclamation by its terms, even assuming it were legal, would not apply to them.
[00:07:41]  Yeah, this is not an Alien Enemies Act question.
[00:07:43]  So the question is, do you agree it was illegal?
[00:07:46]  If the argument is the Supreme Court said it was illegal and that's your basis for it, then I agree with you, yes.
[00:07:51]  Okay, do you agree with the president or the executive department?
[00:07:54]  The thing is, everybody agrees it's illegal.
[00:07:57]  Wait, just to be clear.
[00:07:58]  No, I believe it was an administrative error.
[00:08:00]  And the issue is we're talking about the semantics of what it means to be illegal, right?
[00:08:03]  So, is it illegal to smoke pot?
[00:08:05]  Yes.
[00:08:06]  Is it unjust?
[00:08:07]  No, people can smoke pot if they fucking want to smoke pot.
[00:08:08]  Okay, so that's why I'm asking you.
[00:08:09]  First, if it's illegal, now you agree it is a legal affair, right?
[00:08:13]  In the context of which...
[00:08:14]  So the first thing I was trying to do was understand your view and how you're viewing what illegal means.
[00:08:20]  You're saying, as a subject of law, as the Supreme Court has ruled it, we all agree the Supreme Court did in fact say it was illegal.
[00:08:25]  Correct.
[00:08:26]  Agreed.
[00:08:26]  Okay, so if it's the case that you think that this deportation was illegal, do you think it was just for the Trump administration to do an illegal deportation?
[00:08:34]  Yes.
[00:08:35]  Just like I think it's just for someone to smoke pot.
[00:08:38]  Okay.
[00:08:39]  So, if they did the same thing to a U.S. citizen, though, obviously you'd think it's unjust.
[00:08:43]  Yes.
[00:08:43]  Okay.
[00:08:44]  If they killed Kilmar Abrego Garcia, would you think it's unjust?
[00:08:47]  Yes.
[00:08:48]  Why's that?
[00:08:50]  Killing people is one of the worst crimes, in fact.
[00:08:56]  Obama killed four American citizens.
[00:08:58]  Wait, but you thought that was wrong, right?
[00:09:00]  Absolutely.
[00:09:01]  So if it's the case that you thought that was wrong, wouldn't it be wrong, for example, to kill Margaro Garcia in prison for the rest of his life without an opportunity to have a case?
[00:09:10]  No.
[00:09:12]  Let me try this real quick.
[00:09:15]  You're trying to equate...
[00:09:17]  Say Barack Obama, right?
[00:09:18]  He extrajudicially assassinated a 16-year-old kid without charge or trial.
[00:09:23]  I mean, if a dude cracks a grandma over the head with a baseball bat and kills her, I say lock that guy up.
[00:09:28]  If a guy...
[00:09:30]  Accidentally runs a woman over, then we say there could be negligent homicide.
[00:09:34]  There's degrees of whether or not the crime is bad.
[00:09:37]  Is it justice in some circumstances and not when a crime is...
[00:09:39]  Not all crimes are solved in the same way.
[00:09:42]  I'm not alleging that it's a crime.
[00:09:43]  I'm not alleging that it's a crime.
[00:09:46]  I'm saying it's illegal, and the Supreme Court found that.
[00:09:48]  And right now, what we have...
[00:09:50]  This is what the Trump cult does to you.
[00:09:51]  This is what the Trump cult does to you.
[00:09:54]  This is what it does to you.
[00:09:56]  You are defending an...
[00:09:57]  Illegal deportation of a human being who has the right to have his case heard.
[00:10:03]  The basic essence of...
[00:10:04]  If you're denied of anybody, it will be denied of you in the course of time.
[00:10:09]  No, it won't.
[00:10:10]  He's not a citizen.
[00:10:13]  And he was previously adjudicated as an MS-13 gang member.
[00:10:16]  That's false.
[00:10:17]  No, it's not.
[00:10:18]  There was a finding that he was an MS-13.
[00:10:21]  Absolutely.
[00:10:21]  You brought up collateral stopple, didn't you?
[00:10:23]  Yeah.
[00:10:24]  He'll be stopped from challenging him.
[00:10:26]  Of course not.
[00:10:27]  Of course not.
[00:10:28]  I know because, I have to say, a lot of these lawyers file shipwrecked, and shipwrecked is a lawyer, and it's garbage.
[00:10:37]  And the truth is, there is no collateral estoppel here.
[00:10:40]  What is the finding that the bond court hearing made?
[00:10:43]  Let me ask you a question.
[00:10:47]  If someone does something illegal, is that just or unjust?
[00:10:51]  Sometimes unjust, sometimes just.
[00:10:53]  It depends.
[00:10:53]  If someone does something illegal, should they always be held under- No.
[00:10:58]  Okay, so we agree that the real question here is not whether it's just or unjust, whether we think the penalty should be severe or not.
[00:11:06]  No, no.
[00:11:06]  So I agree.
[00:11:07]  Not all illegal things are unjust.
[00:11:09]  I'm asking, in this case, is this illegal action by the Trump administration just or unjust?
[00:11:14]  And you said it was just for the Trump administration to do an illegal deportation.
[00:11:19]  And I'm going to ask you why.
[00:11:20]  I'm going to ask you why.
[00:11:21]  Let me answer that.
[00:11:23]  So the first thing I've got to say is...
[00:11:25]  You keep loading this as though illegal is the pretext by which something would be just or unjust, which is why I asked you.
[00:11:30]  If something is illegal, is it just or unjust?
[00:11:33]  It can be.
[00:11:33]  It depends.
[00:11:34]  Then you don't need to say, you know, am I okay?
[00:11:39]  Why am I okay with Trump doing something illegal?
[00:11:40]  The question is the deportation.
[00:11:41]  No, I do need it because I think as a standard, right, there's a threshold here that in the main, when the government does something illegal, we're going to presume...
[00:11:50]  It's unjust unless you can reach some threshold.
[00:11:53]  Well, think about it, right?
[00:11:54]  This can't just be a game of we let the government do whatever we want to people we don't like.
[00:11:59]  We're fearful of the government wielding power in the main because of structural reasons.
[00:12:04]  There's a reason, for example, you believe that someone who's accused, for example, of should be given a trial, correct?
[00:12:12]  Yes.
[00:12:12]  Okay.
[00:12:13]  Why do you think that someone who's so horrific and if everyone agrees that this person Why should we give them a trial?
[00:12:21]  An American citizen gets a trial.
[00:12:22]  What about an illegal alien?
[00:12:23]  They don't.
[00:12:24]  So you don't think, just to be clear, this is where we're at now.
[00:12:27]  You don't think that crimes that are committed in this country by illegal immigrants, that they should have trials for those crimes?
[00:12:34]  The penalty and...
[00:12:36]  Wait, wait.
[00:12:37]  To be honest, we do have trials for illegal immigrants.
[00:12:43]  The penalty for an illegal immigrant typically is for most to cross within two years is expedited removal.
[00:12:50]  That means their due process is an immigration officer will determine whether or not they're here legally or illegally.
[00:12:55]  That's not what we're talking about.
[00:12:55]  We're talking about crimes.
[00:12:56]  We're talking about crimes.
[00:12:57]  And yeah, so when we get someone here who like...
[00:13:00]  Or murder somebody?
[00:13:01]  Why are we going to spend taxpayer dollars when the outcome is going to be you get sent out of the country no matter what happens?
[00:13:06]  Well, Tim, Tim, actually, a lot of times, when we deal with this, we want them to be prosecuted so that they actually face a punishment instead of getting deported.
[00:13:15]  So that is, we actually spend a lot of taxpayer resources on prosecuting illegal immigrants, at least in Texas.
[00:13:22]  I just want to dwell here for a second.
[00:13:24]  The Constitution says that persons in this country get trials if they are accused of a crime before they're punished.
[00:13:32]  No, it does not say that.
[00:13:34]  You can read the Constitution.
[00:13:36]  Let's clarify the fact.
[00:13:37]  Does it say citizens or persons?
[00:13:39]  So, for example...
[00:13:41]  Let me ask you this, though.
[00:13:42]  In the case of Abrego Garcia, do you think that that is a sweeping policy that's being used to deport mass amount of people?
[00:13:48]  What is a sweeping policy?
[00:13:50]  I'm just saying the pretext that we used to deport Abrego Garcia, I'm saying, do you think that is being used right now to deport a massive amount of people, or is this an isolated incident in your opinion?
[00:14:00]  I don't think it's an isolated incident.
[00:14:01]  I don't think it's relevant to the question presented, which has to do with this meeting, but I will answer it.
[00:14:04]  I'm just saying, you know, when you make an omelet, a few eggs are going to get, you know, cracked.
[00:14:09]  I'm just saying, it sucks how it is.
[00:14:11]  Yeah, but then just bite the bullet and say, yes, it was unjust.
[00:14:12]  Of course it was unjust.
[00:14:13]  We don't want the government in the main unless there's exceedingly crazy circumstances to violate the government.
[00:14:19]  The Constitution, right?
[00:14:20]  Let me just get real quick, but do you think it's going to be used in a...
[00:14:24]  Massive way?
[00:14:25]  It already is.
[00:14:26]  It already is.
[00:14:26]  But who else?
[00:14:27]  What other examples do we have?
[00:14:28]  I know you used to talk about the cancer girl, but they actually were allowed to stay.
[00:14:31]  So when leftists say that they were forced to leave, they chose to go with their family.
[00:14:35]  They were 100% allowed to stay in America, so we didn't deport a cancer person.
[00:14:39]  If you guys are stuck in your echo chambers, and again, I think that there's some of that going on here.
[00:14:43]  Don't insult the audience like that.
[00:14:45]  Give me a break.
[00:14:45]  If it's that case, then you wouldn't know, for example, that this U.S. citizen, there's a parent here.
[00:14:50]  There's an opportunity.
[00:14:51]  People have basic due process rights.
[00:14:53]  To see if, I don't know, an aunt wants to care for the U.S. citizen, or another parent has parental rights and the right to have custody over the parent or the child.
[00:15:00]  In the instance you're referring to, the mother requested the child.
[00:15:03]  So, I don't know which case, there are multiple cases of U.S. citizen implication.
[00:15:06]  There's two.
[00:15:07]  One of which the mother denies that that's the outcome that she wanted.
[00:15:11]  But regardless, the policy that we're talking about is, with respect to people who are not citizens here, and you asked if it's like a mass policy, they're already, by the Supreme Court, again, unanimously saying that.
[00:15:22]  That these people are entitled to due process.
[00:15:24]  You guys don't think that.
[00:15:25]  You guys don't think that there should be due process for people.
[00:15:29]  Everyone thinks they're entitled to due process.
[00:15:32]  The question is what process is due.

=== False Framing In Immigration (15:30) ===

[00:15:34]  And it's extraordinarily limited in the context of legal immigration.
[00:15:36]  But Tim just said, even in the context of criminal...
[00:15:39]  So Tim just said...
[00:15:40]  Tim just said, in the context of a criminal indictment, that there should not be trials for people who are here illegally.
[00:15:47]  You don't agree with that?
[00:15:48]  No, I don't.
[00:15:49]  Hold on, hold on, hold on.
[00:15:51]  This is a really good example for media literacy.
[00:15:54]  What he did is he is falsely framing the arguments, redirecting it.
[00:15:59]  What I'm saying is...
[00:16:00]  There is no trial required for a crime committed by an illegal immigrant because they'll get an expedited removal before a trial continues.
[00:16:06]  You're conflating an immigration hearing which is civil, and I agree.
[00:16:09]  Guys, don't get confused, alright?
[00:16:11]  I'm going to teach you something.
[00:16:12]  I'm not conflating anything.
[00:16:13]  Immigration law and a removal proceeding is not a criminal matter, okay?
[00:16:17]  That's different than the criminal proceeding.
[00:16:18]  Yes, I agree.
[00:16:19]  You don't need trials.
[00:16:20]  That's why J.D. Vance is full of shit when you say that we need trials.
[00:16:23]  I've got to stop you.
[00:16:24]  You are actually making a mistake.
[00:16:26]  I am aware you are asking for a criminal trial.
[00:16:29]  For, let's say, an illegal immigrant who committed a murder.
[00:16:32]  I am arguing that we will deport that person back to their home country, and then we're not going to hold a trial for them after the fact.
[00:16:39]  Wait, wait, wait.
[00:16:39]  So you're going to take a murderer who committed a crime in this country, you're not going to subject him to punishment in this country, and you're going to send the murderer back to El Salvador just so he can cross the border again and murder someone?
[00:16:50]  Well, that's why Trump has Seacott, doesn't he?
[00:16:53]  Hang on.
[00:16:53]  That wasn't embedded in your hypothetical there, that he would go to Seacott.
[00:16:56]  You presented information to the argument that was not previously included in it.
[00:17:00]  The argument is an illegal immigrant here gets deported first.
[00:17:06]  Before he goes to trial for murder?
[00:17:07]  Come on, guys.
[00:17:08]  How do you have a criminal trial for someone who's not in the country?
[00:17:10]  Wait, so he...
[00:17:11]  So we do...
[00:17:13]  This is high priority for our government to spend money on trials protecting U.S. citizens, and it's one of the, you know, our common things is...
[00:17:20]  Guess what?
[00:17:21]  Actually, hold on.
[00:17:22]  Let me give a hypothetical to Tim.
[00:17:23]  Real quick, though, Tim.
[00:17:24]  This is where I think you're wrong.
[00:17:25]  I'm sorry.
[00:17:26]  So would you have rather had Lakin Riley's murder just deported, or are you happy that they had a trial and got convicted?
[00:17:33]  Deported.
[00:17:34]  That's crazy.
[00:17:34]  So you trust Bukele?
[00:17:35]  You trust this El Salvadorian guy?
[00:17:37]  Wait, wait.
[00:17:38]  Just be clear.
[00:17:39]  You trust El Salvador to keep this guy in jail?
[00:17:41]  This guy committed a crime on U.S. soil.
[00:17:43]  And you trust El Salvador?
[00:17:45]  You trust El Salvador?
[00:17:47]  Yeah.
[00:17:49]  Here's the problem.
[00:17:50]  Here's the problem.
[00:17:51]  What happens if Bukele decides this guy goes free?
[00:17:53]  What happens if they overthrow Bukele?
[00:17:55]  I got it.
[00:17:56]  I got it.
[00:17:57]  Guys, I figured it out.
[00:17:58]  We secure our border.
[00:18:02]  So in this country, there's justice for crimes.
[00:18:06]  And what you're talking about isn't justice.
[00:18:07]  It's for the purposes of expediting something.
[00:18:10]  But it's not true justice, for example.
[00:18:12]  I actually disagree with you.
[00:18:14]  I think what you're saying isn't justice because what you are doing is creating a defense for people who have no right to be here in the first place so that taxpayers have to spend money on someone who's not going to be here after this.
[00:18:25]  And if you look at the case of Abrego Garcia, this guy...
[00:18:29]  What was the due process that was failed?
[00:18:31]  He was supposed to get what's called a USCIS official interview.
[00:18:35]  False.
[00:18:35]  This is under the law.
[00:18:36]  You're wrong.
[00:18:39]  It's 8 CFR 24 sub 08. The withholding of deportation law states that if an individual receives a USCIS interview that determines the circumstances of their home country has changed, they can be deported withholding is void.
[00:18:52]  8 CFR 224.
[00:18:54]  Look it up.
[00:18:54]  So you go to sub F. No, no, no.
[00:19:07]  Pull up the law on withholding of deportation, which explicitly states that a USCIS interview can determine that the circumstance of their home country has changed.
[00:19:15]  I don't have my phone on me.
[00:19:16]  That's affirmatively.
[00:19:17]  So this is the problem.
[00:19:18]  This is defensive relief.
[00:19:21]  So in the immigration context, you can apply affirmatively to USCIS, or you can be put before an EOIR judge.
[00:19:26]  Then I'll say this.
[00:19:26]  I concede.
[00:19:27]  Let's bring him back, and the first thing that happens when he walks on the door is he turns back around.
[00:19:31]  You concede that it was unjust and he should be brought back and then put in removal suits?
[00:19:34]  No, no, no.
[00:19:34]  Stop playing games.
[00:19:35]  That's what you just said.
[00:19:36]  Stop playing games.
[00:19:38]  I am saying for the sake of argument, I will no contest your argument and say...
[00:19:43]  That's pussy shit.
[00:19:48]  That's you engaging in semantics to change the arguments I make.
[00:19:51]  That's pussy shit.
[00:19:51]  Why don't you actually engage with the argument?
[00:19:54]  Why don't you actually engage with the argument and not say, oh, I don't know because I'm fucking backed into a corner.
[00:19:57]  Now I'm just going to say I don't really care.
[00:20:00]  What this guy does...
[00:20:02]  Is he plays semantic games with the ideas being presented so that he can try and finagle out of when he's backed into a corner.
[00:20:10]  So how am I backed into a corner?
[00:20:11]  So I understand the proposition to be, is the deportation unjust?
[00:20:15]  Wait, wait, wait.
[00:20:16]  I understand the proposition to be...
[00:20:17]  The end result of Abrega Garcia's return to this country is immediate expedited removal.
[00:20:23]  What the fuck is the point?!
[00:20:24]  Waste our fucking time!
[00:20:26]  So I just want to be clear.
[00:20:27]  I understood the proposition.
[00:20:29]  I listened very carefully.
[00:20:31]  I said, "Is it just?
[00:20:32]  And should it be brought back?" And you just said, "Okay, I guess it was unjust.
[00:20:37]  It should be brought back." The point is, it's called a moot point when you're arguing something that's immaterial to the end result of what we're trying to accomplish.
[00:20:45]  The debate proposition is a moot point.
[00:20:47]  I just want to hear you say that again.
[00:20:49]  You're playing semantic games again.
[00:20:51]  I also heard everyone else said, this is debate.
[00:20:52]  Come to the arena, debate.
[00:20:53]  You guys are coping.
[00:20:54]  We are debating.
[00:20:55]  Bite the bullet.
[00:20:56]  Bite the bullet.
[00:20:57]  Can I say something?
[00:20:58]  Let's get Will.
[00:21:00]  I supposedly am debating here, right?
[00:21:01]  I don't even remember that was supposed to happen.
[00:21:03]  Come on, Will.
[00:21:04]  Come on, Will.
[00:21:05]  Let him talk.
[00:21:07]  The resolution was supposed to be, is the deportation profoundly unjust?
[00:21:10]  And there's a reason for that adverb.
[00:21:13]  It's because there is a mild injustice that happens whenever the law is not followed.
[00:21:18]  So, you know, unless there is, like, some dramatic reason to not follow the law in a particular instance, there's usually a mild injustice.
[00:21:24]  I think that the more interesting, and the funny thing is the Trump administration has conceded to this since the beginning of the filings, right?
[00:21:30]  The Trump administration conceded from the outset that this was an administrative error, that they should have gotten the withholding of removal lifted before they removed him to El Salvador.
[00:21:37]  I don't think that's the most interesting question, because it's a question that, like, even the Trump administration agrees to, for the most part.
[00:21:44]  I think the question is, is this a profound injustice?
[00:21:47]  And I think the answer to that is obviously no, for the reasons I laid out at the beginning, right?
[00:21:50]  And I think I'd like to actually hear your argument for why this is a profound injustice and not merely a mild.
[00:21:56]  I want to make one little point, though, Visco.
[00:21:58]  You know, when it comes to Abrego Garcia, and I personally think this is an isolated incident, but even if you are right, I'll concede that I think, you know, ideologically, even though you and I are different on this subject, I do feel like that he didn't get his due process.
[00:22:10]  And I had to debate this on college campuses.
[00:22:12]  It is hard.
[00:22:13]  But in this instance with Abrego Garcia, I think it's isolated, and I don't think that it's a massive problem.
[00:22:21]  I mean, that's what I think about this, but I do concede.
[00:22:23]  They go entwine.
[00:22:24]  This question is like, who really cares, right?
[00:22:26]  Who really cares?
[00:22:26]  One guy, whatever.
[00:22:27]  It's kind of like you're George Floyd.
[00:22:28]  They're making this guy to be like a hero, and it's one incident, and it's bad, but he's not a hero, and he still beat his wife.
[00:22:34]  So it just kind of sucks that even though you are right in this instance, I don't want to be like the left because they say that the means, the ends justify the means, and I don't want to be like that.
[00:22:43]  I don't want to break the law to get the outcome that we want.
[00:22:45]  So I want to be clear.
[00:22:45]  I'm going to give you a hot take.
[00:22:46]  This is worse than the George Floyd situation.
[00:22:49]  This is worse than the George Floyd situation.
[00:22:51]  And I'll tell you why.
[00:22:53]  One's in the chat.
[00:22:55]  One's in the chat.
[00:22:56]  I don't know from what perspective that could possibly be right.
[00:22:59]  It doesn't matter how you come down on George Floyd.
[00:23:01]  The valence of George Floyd is bigger on either side.
[00:23:03]  Let him talk.
[00:23:05]  Let him talk, guys.
[00:23:06]  And I do believe that George Floyd was murdered.
[00:23:08]  I watched that entire trial.
[00:23:10]  I think it's clear that they're...
[00:23:11]  Let's let him talk.
[00:23:13]  Yeah, no, you should listen to the pulmonary cardiologist and his testimony.
[00:23:17]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:23:19]  Let him talk.
[00:23:20]  Let him talk.
[00:23:20]  Let's hear this.
[00:23:21]  He's about to make a good point.
[00:23:22]  I'm interested in this.
[00:23:23]  So this is why.
[00:23:25]  I do think that even though there's a history of cop violence, not just on black people, on people of all races, whatever, and it's a problem in the United States, I think that it doesn't present the same kind of civilizational.
[00:23:38]  Problems are presented by what the Trump administration is doing here.
[00:23:41]  What they're trying to do here is put people outside of the contours of U.S. law.
[00:23:47]  We have prisons in the United States.
[00:23:50]  We have prisons in the United States for the worst of the worst.
[00:23:55]  We spend money on it.
[00:23:56]  The reason why we need to send them to SICOT or to El Salvador is quite simply because...
[00:24:01]  Trump doesn't want to be hemmed in by the law.
[00:24:03]  And that, when the president ignites, when the strongest person in the country is saying things like, for example, I want to do this to U.S. criminals.
[00:24:11]  I want to use it for U.S. citizens.
[00:24:13]  I believe him.
[00:24:14]  I believe that he wants to do that.
[00:24:15]  How about this, Obisco?
[00:24:16]  You and I both know Guantanamo Bay.
[00:24:18]  There are people that are being held there without due process.
[00:24:20]  We're not losing sleep over that.
[00:24:22]  I don't see the left.
[00:24:23]  And that was done by Obama.
[00:24:24]  Kept that when he said he campaigned, oh, I'm going to shut down Guantanamo Bay.
[00:24:28]  Yet he still didn't.
[00:24:29]  Derek Chauvin did nothing wrong.
[00:24:32]  That's wrong.
[00:24:35]  I want to ask you guys, if Trump sends U.S. citizens abroad to see caught, you would have a problem with that, right?
[00:24:44]  Absolutely.
[00:24:44]  I don't know about that.
[00:24:46]  It's a different form instead of using a U.S. prison.
[00:24:48]  I don't know why it's any different than our private prison industry that's a scam.
[00:24:52]  This is the danger.
[00:24:57]  Trump is...
[00:25:00]  Trump is selling.
[00:25:02]  Trump is testing.
[00:25:03]  And we've got two minutes left, and then we're about to get into the debate.
[00:25:07]  Trump is testing this theory, and he's telling you in advance he wants to apply it to U.S. citizens.
[00:25:12]  And just like Obama, one of the things I respect about Tim Pool is he's aware of the kinds of violations that occurred under Rumsfeld, under the neocons, under Trump, Barack Obama, under Trump Term 1. That very same rationale that applied to Guantanamo Bay, that applied to the deprivations of due process in Abu Ghraib, surely that applies to Trump version 2. And I don't see a kind of exceptional circumstance in this case that would justify breaking the law.
[00:25:39]  Before we go to the members, Will, do you want to take the last point?
[00:25:44]  Oh yeah, I mean, so...
[00:25:46]  I think the argument that this is ultimately going to lead to U.S. citizens' deportation is just a really bad slippery slope argument.
[00:25:51]  I don't think that's true.
[00:25:52]  I think that there's so many other remedies that are available to U.S. citizens that it's not going to happen.
[00:25:57]  I think that...
[00:25:58]  You want to send U.S. citizens to say talk?
[00:26:05]  Who decides?
[00:26:06]  Who decides?
[00:26:07]  That's the question.
[00:26:08]  Do we just trust Trump and his, you know, Kash Patel to say who the terrorists are?
[00:26:13]  With any sort of prison, I mean, there's levels of crime would decide.
[00:26:18]  But there's also levels of review, right?
[00:26:20]  There is levels of review.
[00:26:21]  One of the reasons why Tim, I think, in good faith is against the death penalty because he understands the propensity for courts, yes, even courts with full review, to get shit wrong sometimes.
[00:26:30]  In this case, I think that you should be fearful of a purely executive discretion on who is a terrorist sufficient to make a big hole in due process.
[00:26:39]  Here's where I want to make one last point, right?
[00:26:41]  And this is why I think the slippery slope argument is bad.
[00:26:44]  It'd be one thing if the Trump administration was hiding that it had made this administrative error from the beginning.
[00:26:48]  But from the outset, from the very first filing in court, from the first declaration, the Trump administration was like, we made a mistake.
[00:26:55]  It was an administrative error.
[00:26:56]  He should have had his withholding and removal lifted.
[00:27:00]  He didn't fire the guy who made the declaration, right?
[00:27:02]  He fired the attorney, but he didn't fire it.
[00:27:04]  They suspended the guy who admitted it.
[00:27:06]  They suspended the attorney, but not the declaration.
[00:27:08]  And Stephen Miller is saying it was a mistake.
[00:27:09]  Stephen Miller is lying about the Supreme Court decision.
[00:27:11]  And you agree that Trump could get him back if you wanted to.
[00:27:14]  I mean, I think he could.
[00:27:15]  I just don't.
[00:27:16]  I think it's beyond the judicial power to order.
[00:27:18]  Whether it's beyond the judicial power to order, since you said it was unjust, why wouldn't you want him to right the wrong that you acknowledged?
[00:27:24]  Here's how I would have him do that, right?
[00:27:26]  like in one of two ways, either a Zoom hearing or a hearing in the American Embassy in San Salvador, right, you resolve the problem, you resolve the problem by just having the hearing to lift But the Supreme Court said facilitate his release.
[00:27:43]  Release of custody in El Salvador.
[00:27:46]  Yeah, they said that.
[00:27:46]  And it's like, I think they're acting on a rushed basis.
[00:27:49]  People, they haven't been very clear about what they mean by facilitate, and neither is Judge Zinnis, frankly.
[00:27:53]  So I think the solution here is, while they're litigating what exactly facilitate means in this context, you just go ahead and...
[00:28:02]  Handle the withholding of removal issue.
[00:28:03]  He's going to lose on it.
[00:28:05]  I want to address the issues of collateral estoppel and issue preclusion.
[00:28:11]  That's a legal term of art, but for the lawyers who are eventually going to watch this, the bond hearing is only related to the issue of whether or not he's in the moment a danger to the community.
[00:28:18]  It's not a finding of the court that is able to apply.
[00:28:22]  And have binding precedent on any other determination.
[00:28:25]  Furthermore, the basic contours of due process and collateral stopper require there to be a vigorous process where the issues were really held.
[00:28:33]  They didn't have the opportunity to cross-examine any of the witnesses.
[00:28:35]  An anonymous witness on two forms, one of which is blatantly wrong and contradictory.
[00:28:41]  They said they picked him up for murder.
[00:28:43]  And so the issue of collateral stopper, there's no collateral stopper.
[00:28:45]  I think in the context of an immigration proceeding, I think it would...
[00:28:49]  You can't suddenly take a criminal That's 30 minutes, but we'll let you wrap it up.
[00:28:56]  And then just the second issue of withholding, it's clear under the regulations and under the due process clause, you are allowed to bring up, just as the burden of the proof is going to be on the government to show that the country conditions have changed so that Barrio 18 is no longer a threat because Bukele is just fucking Superman or whatever, he's going to have additional opportunities to argue other withholding arguments, one of which is now that he's been identified by Bukele by name, he has a very strong argument that he's going to be actually a target of persecution by Bukele and the administration in the state, which I think is actually a stronger argument.
[00:29:23]  Barter 18 argument.
[00:29:24]  Let's roll.
[00:29:25]  Alright, guys.
[00:29:26]  Now, let's get it on.
[00:29:27]  That was our introductory debate.
[00:29:28]  You guys kind of got your palate.
[00:29:31]  Now we need the palate cleansed.
[00:29:33]  You got your little taste of what tonight's going to be about.
[00:29:37]  So, guys, what's going to happen is we're going to pick people up.
[00:29:39]  We're going to kind of mix it up.
[00:29:41]  So, first, we're going to start with Donnie Dossi.
[00:29:43]  But, Donnie, what's going to happen is you're going to come up here.
[00:29:44]  You're going to get a minute uninterrupted to talk about whatever prompt you want.
[00:29:48]  We have this prompt.
[00:29:49]  We're just going to use you because you're the first one.
[00:29:51]  And then, after you make that argument, then you're going to come up here, and that's when we're going to have the back-and-forth dialogue.
[00:29:55]  So, you got one minute.
[00:30:03]  Then you get the four minutes back and forth.
[00:30:05]  You get to freaking argue with the most famous guy on YouTube.
[00:30:09]  I suck, I suck.
[00:30:11]  And, yeah, so your one minute starts.
[00:30:14]  Let me get the timer out.
[00:30:16]  Just go for it.
[00:30:16]  I'll start it.
[00:30:17]  Yeah.
[00:30:17]  Ready, set, debate, or say your topic.
[00:30:21]  So this withholding of removal thing that I keep hearing about, I mean, granted, I admit I'm not a lawyer or anything.
[00:30:27]  I also, you know, I didn't actually, like, read the Supreme Court ruling or anything.
[00:30:32]  But my understanding of the withholding of removal is this makes it illegal for them to have deported Garcia to El Salvador.
[00:30:39]  It did not grant him permanent residency within the United States, and it also did not outlaw ability to deport him to another country.
[00:30:47]  So I'm kind of confused on where the confusion...

=== Deportation Dilemmas (04:36) ===

[00:30:52]  Okay, I get it.
[00:30:53]  A mistake was made.
[00:30:54]  He was accidentally deported to El Salvador.
[00:30:56]  So what happens from that point?
[00:30:57]  We go ahead and we bring him back.
[00:30:59]  How do we bring him back?
[00:31:00]  What if Bukele isn't willing to relate to him to us?
[00:31:03]  How do we go about getting them back?
[00:31:05]  Are we supposed to send in the military and go take them by force and bring them back here just so that way we can detain them and deport them again anyways?
[00:31:13]  None of that makes sense to me.
[00:31:15]  That's kind of my point.
[00:31:16]  Well, come on up and then we can tell you why you're wrong.
[00:31:21]  I mean, that's my position, too, mostly.
[00:31:25]  Nice to meet you, too.
[00:31:25]  Well, let's roll.
[00:31:26]  I mean, what was wrong?
[00:31:28]  First of all, thank you guys.
[00:31:29]  I know that we disagree on stuff, but I really appreciate you all coming here.
[00:31:32]  I think it's a really important topic, due process.
[00:31:34]  So I think it's awesome.
[00:31:35]  If I could say real quick, kudos to you, man.
[00:31:38]  Big balls.
[00:31:39]  Big balls.
[00:31:39]  Come up here.
[00:31:40]  Go up against these three and an entire fucking room of people that are opposing you.
[00:31:46]  That's strong.
[00:31:47]  Okay, you don't need to kiss his ass.
[00:31:49]  So, I think the first, I'm going to deal in reverse order.
[00:31:52]  The first thing is like, well, how can we actually get that done?
[00:31:54]  I think everyone, if they're being honest with themselves, because you guys are honest people, should admit that Trump could, if he wanted to, get Kilmar Brugger's back.
[00:32:03]  He recently, as like this week, said he could get him back.
[00:32:07]  So, we believe in terms of practicality, the President of the United States could get him back, right?
[00:32:13]  I mean...
[00:32:14]  I concede he could, because he does have a lot of sway, and Bukele wants to work with him.
[00:32:18]  So you agree with that, right?
[00:32:19]  He wants to work with him.
[00:32:20]  But then at the same time, this also keeps Bukele in the spotlight.
[00:32:23]  And he likes being in the spotlight.
[00:32:24]  But let's not talk about questions of could.
[00:32:27]  Let's talk about questions of should.
[00:32:28]  Because I don't really think that you can make a strong argument that he couldn't.
[00:32:33]  I don't really think that he needs to waste his time on it.
[00:32:35]  I just wanted to give Will an opportunity.
[00:32:37]  Well, yeah, I mean, I think my point is that...
[00:32:40]  There's Article 2 prerogatives that he actually does need to protect.
[00:32:43]  And so in a world where Article 3 is sort of like in this vague game of trying to order him to return him, I would say no.
[00:32:49]  So I want to give Will his credit because it is the case.
[00:32:52]  There are, as the Supreme Court held, limits, Article 3 limits on their ability to infringe on the Article 2 prerogatives.
[00:32:58]  And I agree with some of these.
[00:33:00]  Like, if the Supreme Court said to Trump, hey, you have to go send in spec ops to take this guy out.
[00:33:06]  I would think that's unconstitutional for them to order that.
[00:33:08]  So I do agree that there are some limits here, but that's a question of whether the court can order the remedy, not a question about what Trump could do.
[00:33:15]  Well, no, because there's an odd element to this, too, and I think that you're alighting.
[00:33:19]  The odd argument is that in a world where the Supreme Court is attempting to encroach on his power with vague orders and Trump exceeds to it, that sets a precedent.
[00:33:31]  For what the court can do going forward.
[00:33:33]  And so, I mean, and since we're in this area of like core article to power, why I think, you know, I think Trump should do, as I said, I think the remedy here is this hearing in El Salvador.
[00:33:41]  But I think Trump should resist any sort of attempt to say, oh, you're ordering me to negotiate with El Salvadoran government to bring him back?
[00:33:48]  I'm not going to do that until you give that up.
[00:33:50]  We also need to address what it means to...
[00:33:52]  What the phrase could bring him back means.
[00:33:55]  And this would mean that Trump would need to negotiate with Pichelli to some degree.
[00:33:58]  And I also believe it's fair to say that while Trump could bring him back...
[00:34:02]  The resistance is going to be tremendous.
[00:34:05]  Bukele is going to have to concede to his nation.
[00:34:07]  I have released an MS-13 gang member because I was pressured by a foreign country.
[00:34:12]  So Trump could get him back, but Trump's going to have to come in like, here's what we'll give you, we'll give you this, we'll give you that.
[00:34:18]  Things that the Supreme Court can't order him to guarantee.
[00:34:20]  Bukele has like what, 90% approval in El Salvador?
[00:34:24]  I've had a client from El Salvador before, and I want to underplay...
[00:34:27]  Because he's hard on them.
[00:34:28]  What's that?
[00:34:29]  Because he's hard on crime.
[00:34:30]  He's hard on gang.
[00:34:31]  So I want to be clear.
[00:34:34]  My client that I once had, he...
[00:34:37]  Was absolutely a victim of the gang violence.
[00:34:38]  It was an endemic and it was just unlivable in El Salvador.
[00:34:41]  So I don't want to underplay the degree to which gang violence matters.
[00:34:43]  It absolutely does.
[00:34:44]  But he is not...
[00:34:45]  His approval rating is to the max.
[00:34:49]  The notion that he would face some kind of humongous...
[00:34:52]  At the very second that he softens on that, his approval rating is going to go down.
[00:34:57]  You don't think he's like, okay, we gave it back because we want to make a good relation with the president?
[00:34:59]  That's not going to affect...
[00:35:02]  Come on, this is all a joke.
[00:35:04]  If Trump wanted him back...
[00:35:05]  Pisco, I want to do some Socratic dialogue with you, because you did a lot earlier.
[00:35:09]  So let's do some Socratic dialogue.
[00:35:10]  Imagine a different hypothetical.

=== Lipton's Different Viewpoint (03:11) ===

[00:35:12]  Let's imagine a world where the United States had an illegal member of La Cosa Nostra in detention.
[00:35:21]  And somehow he had managed to acquire withholding removal from an immigration judge.
[00:35:27]  Maybe that information got hidden about him being in La Cosa Nostra, whatever.
[00:35:30]  Okay, you've got a withholding of removal to Italy.
[00:35:32]  Like Italy, yeah.
[00:35:33]  Okay, the Italy hypothetical.
[00:35:36]  And then, you know...
[00:35:37]  That's four minutes, Donnie.
[00:35:41]  Any final thoughts for you?
[00:35:42]  Yeah, but Donnie, you spent a minute of it kissing Pisco's ass.
[00:35:45]  Yeah, I shouldn't be kissing his ass.
[00:35:47]  I was just trying to talk about, you know...
[00:35:49]  I'm impressed that he got up here, but at the same time, he's fucking rolling all around.
[00:35:52]  Well, we're impressed that you're here, too.
[00:35:54]  That's where I'm at.
[00:35:55]  But I do agree.
[00:35:56]  I do tremendously respect you being here, man.
[00:35:58]  This is fantastic.
[00:35:58]  Thank you so much.
[00:35:58]  Thank you.
[00:35:59]  Yeah, we do appreciate it.
[00:36:00]  Okay, now, guys, obviously, no, thank you, Donnie.
[00:36:03]  Great job.
[00:36:04]  And so, guys, you're going to be able to come up here.
[00:36:06]  So try to interject a little bit.
[00:36:07]  I know, Donnie, it's tough being the first one, so don't beat yourself up.
[00:36:10]  You actually did a good job.
[00:36:10]  Thank you.
[00:36:11]  You're the virgin.
[00:36:12]  We just, you know, you took our virginity.
[00:36:15]  So thank you.
[00:36:17]  Well, Alex Jones, we're about to get into Alex Jones, but it's funny because we're getting heckled by...
[00:36:22]  Let's be real, guys.
[00:36:23]  This is a sausage fest, you know?
[00:36:25]  I mean, it is.
[00:36:26]  But we do have a few ladies here.
[00:36:28]  So next up, I want one of those beautiful ladies from the audience to come on down.
[00:36:33]  So do we have a lady that wants to come up here?
[00:36:35]  Do we have a lady?
[00:36:36]  Yeah, come on.
[00:36:38]  Come on.
[00:36:39]  Yes, come on.
[00:36:40]  Get up there.
[00:36:40]  You have to come up.
[00:36:41]  Yeah.
[00:36:41]  If you're here, guys, you're susceptible to being chosen and get up there.
[00:36:46]  Just say anything.
[00:36:47]  Just come up for a minute.
[00:36:48]  If you suck for the minute, you get kicked off.
[00:36:51]  You don't have a choice.
[00:36:53]  Just come up here.
[00:36:54]  Don't be scared.
[00:36:55]  You're going to go viral.
[00:36:56]  You got Tim Blue.
[00:36:56]  Let's try it.
[00:36:58]  Oh, my gosh.
[00:36:59]  Okay, well, if you're going to be a chicken, Bach!
[00:37:01]  Listen, you know you came here.
[00:37:03]  You put on that dress.
[00:37:03]  You wanted to be seen.
[00:37:06]  Let's see it.
[00:37:07]  Let's grab who we have.
[00:37:08]  All right, so let's go with somebody that's different.
[00:37:10]  Is John Gordon here?
[00:37:11]  We got a John Gordon in the audience.
[00:37:14]  No, okay.
[00:37:16]  He wanted to be here.
[00:37:17]  What about Connor York?
[00:37:19]  Do we have a Connor York in the audience?
[00:37:21]  Alright, no.
[00:37:22]  What about a Sam Lipton?
[00:37:24]  Do we have a Sam Lipton in the audience?
[00:37:26]  None of the Lipton's want to come up here.
[00:37:28]  Is there anybody that's liberal or has a different viewpoint than us that wants to come up here?
[00:37:33]  Well, it's different, but it's okay.
[00:37:35]  Okay, well then you come up here.
[00:37:36]  What's your name?
[00:37:39]  Stork, okay.
[00:37:40]  Did you submit?
[00:37:41]  Did you do an official submission?
[00:37:42]  Okay, I'll find it.
[00:37:44]  Well, go for it.
[00:37:45]  Let him deal the timer in.
[00:37:47]  Let's see what you got.
[00:37:48]  Yeah, if I can get it in before he gets the timer going.
[00:37:50]  Okay, so I believe he is slightly wrong.
[00:37:52]  I believe you are mostly correct.
[00:37:54]  And I believe all of this is a fact that they denied him his sixth amendment right to a right to a speedy trial when he was denied essentially all of the processing that would have been needed when he had the stay of deportation.
[00:38:06]  So he should have been sent to another place.
[00:38:07]  In addition to that...

=== Writs and Immunity (05:10) ===

[00:38:09]  Most of immigration is actually screwed up because we have not filed a writ of unanimous against the federal government for not processing all of these people who are stuck in immigration limbo for 8, 10, 15, 20, 30 years and they should be doing their job and getting them the hell out of the country.
[00:38:25]  Oh, come on down, take a seat.
[00:38:26]  I have a lot to say.
[00:38:27]  I mean, I don't...
[00:38:31]  Sixth Amendment doesn't apply.
[00:38:32]  It's not a criminal punishment.
[00:38:33]  I don't think the Sixth Amendment applies.
[00:38:34]  So it's not a Sixth Amendment issue.
[00:38:36]  Because it's a civil amendment.
[00:38:37]  And you can't get a writ of mandamus.
[00:38:39]  Number one is these judges are executive branch officials.
[00:38:43]  You can get a federal writ of mandamus.
[00:38:45]  You sure can get a writ of mandamus against executive branch officials.
[00:38:48]  But right now, they're all under Trump.
[00:38:50]  And so if Trump could just order them to do whatever you want the writ of mandamus to do.
[00:38:55]  That's democracy.
[00:38:56]  Yeah, but all I mean is to say is I think that this is properly understood as a due process issue.
[00:39:01]  If the writ of mandamus was actually filed under the previous administration, then they would be obligated to do what it is they need to do.
[00:39:07]  That sounds like it's the Article 3 judges encroaching on the executive branch prerogatives.
[00:39:12]  Yeah, I think that actually, and in this context, it probably would be, because we actually, you know, this is, like, I agree, yeah, there's an Article 2 prerogative to manage immigration and enforce immigration laws.
[00:39:22]  You can fail to enforce to such a degree that it would be, like, mandamusable by somebody, but then there's all sorts of, like, other questions.
[00:39:28]  I want to cut a deal real quick with Democrats.
[00:39:31]  I will advocate for the return of Kilmar Abrego Garcia to this country for his hearing if we also simultaneously get a hearing on the extrajudicial assassinations Barack Obama committed.
[00:39:41]  Let's talk about that.
[00:39:43]  The same thing, the same thing, actually.
[00:39:46]  So let's talk about that.
[00:39:48]  You might think, and I understand this point, like, first of all, he was a U.S. citizen, right?
[00:39:54]  That's number one.
[00:39:55]  And he was killed.
[00:39:56]  Al-Awlaki, right?
[00:39:58]  So Anwar al-Awlaki is a great example, but Abdul Rahman is a better example.
[00:40:03]  Okay.
[00:40:03]  Talk about that case.
[00:40:05]  Abdul Rahman was a 16-year-old American citizen, was not a part of any terror organizations.
[00:40:10]  The Obama administration ordered a drone strike on a civilian cafe in Yemen, a country we were not at war with, blowing it up, killing a bunch of people, including him.
[00:40:18]  And they've admitted to it.
[00:40:20]  I don't think you necessarily disagree with me.
[00:40:23]  That's why I said Democrats.
[00:40:24]  I'm not directing at you.
[00:40:25]  I know that if I went to Democratic politicians and said, you see this as an injustice, I believe that in the end the courts will prevail as it pertains to Marco Garcia.
[00:40:33]  So I'm willing to say, okay, let's spend that money, but you've got to give me something.
[00:40:37]  Let's have Justice.
[00:40:38]  Obama goes to prisons.
[00:40:39]  The only reason that I would say that's a problem is I believe there's a statute of limitations on what it is you can file a writ of mandibus for.
[00:40:44]  Is there a statute of limitations on murder?
[00:40:46]  I don't think there is in this case, but in this case, when you're talking about military actions or something like that, there may...
[00:40:51]  But he's not talking about specific writ.
[00:40:53]  He's just saying in general...
[00:40:54]  A writ of mandibus, you sue the government essentially for inaction, and that's what the problem is.
[00:40:58]  We have to...
[00:40:59]  But he's not talking about a particular remedy.
[00:41:01]  He's saying, I'm willing to publicly support X in exchange for Democrats giving $1 million.
[00:41:06]  So, I will also concede that there's probably, and you guys are lawyers probably know this better than me, some kind of immunity Obama has where he's going to say, this is a military strike with intelligence.
[00:41:14]  We did not intend to kill an American, but we did.
[00:41:16]  So, he may have some immunity from criminal prosecution.
[00:41:20]  Yeah, I don't think you're going to win a...
[00:41:22]  No, that's fine.
[00:41:23]  I think you can still get wrongful death or something like that.
[00:41:25]  I mean, he has absolutely...
[00:41:27]  The president has absolutely...
[00:41:29]  I mean, you would have like a civil suit against the government.
[00:41:31]  You could.
[00:41:32]  They tried it.
[00:41:32]  Unfortunately, I don't know if he has any surviving family members left because they also killed them.
[00:41:37]  Indeed.
[00:41:38]  No, but my argument in the long form is actually impeach him, convict him, and then now that he's no longer immune...
[00:41:43]  But the court has already...
[00:41:44]  So in the Trump versus the United States case, which I totally disagree with...
[00:41:47]  Hold on.
[00:41:47]  Impeach him first.
[00:41:48]  Yeah.
[00:41:49]  Convict him in the impeachment.
[00:41:50]  Yeah.
[00:41:50]  Wish he's no longer immune to the murder.
[00:41:52]  So the Supreme Court specifically rejected that impeachment judgment clause argument in Trump versus the United States.
[00:41:57]  So there's a couple arguments.
[00:41:57]  So one was the inherent structure of the Constitution makes it that we have certain degrees of absolute immunity for core executive acts that are part of your core executive powers.
[00:42:06]  But there was an argument additionally that Trump said that, well...
[00:42:10]  I'm not immune under those theories, or alternatively, I'm immune until you impeach and remove me.
[00:42:15]  That's under the impeachment judgment clause, but the Supreme Court unanimously held that that was not the case.
[00:42:19]  So you don't need to impeach someone to trigger criminal immunity and remove them.
[00:42:23]  That's been rejected.
[00:42:24]  But it's a good question.
[00:42:26]  Would I support a hearing that looks at the executive power and its use on U.S. citizens when they get killed?
[00:42:31]  Absolutely.
[00:42:32]  Alright, that's four minutes.
[00:42:34]  So, Stork, thank you.
[00:42:35]  Anything you want to say before you go?
[00:42:37]  Alright, give it up for Stork.
[00:42:39]  Now, guys, when you come up, you've got one minute.
[00:42:41]  Make sure to get on the mic.
[00:42:42]  Okay, now this next guy...
[00:42:44]  Why don't we just have them...
[00:42:45]  If we don't know, like some people did or didn't show up, why don't we have them raise their hands and then see who was prepared to come up?
[00:42:49]  Okay, well, I know this guy's here because this guy's insane.
[00:42:52]  I love this guy.
[00:42:54]  No.
[00:42:55]  I want to call up David Tiny Flora.
[00:42:59]  So, David, come on down.
[00:43:00]  Tiny, it's your turn.
[00:43:01]  Come on down, Tiny.
[00:43:03]  Oh, he's coming.

=== Tattoos and Inmate Debates (07:45) ===

[00:43:04]  Tiny, come on.
[00:43:05]  Yeah, give it up for Tiny!
[00:43:07]  He's not exactly that tiny, I'll tell you that much.
[00:43:10]  The man's huge.
[00:43:12]  He's built like a damn refrigerator.
[00:43:14]  Look at him.
[00:43:16]  Come in here, sir.
[00:43:18]  Now get up on that mic.
[00:43:19]  You know how to get up on things.
[00:43:20]  Come on.
[00:43:21]  We want to hear you.
[00:43:21]  Maybe make it taller.
[00:43:23]  Damn.
[00:43:23]  You can pick the mic up and take it with you.
[00:43:24]  I need $20 to get up on that thing for you, Alex.
[00:43:27]  $20.
[00:43:28]  No, I'm not gay.
[00:43:29]  I don't play that way.
[00:43:30]  Maybe piss go.
[00:43:31]  $20, $20.
[00:43:32]  Yeah, well, I'm worth a lot more.
[00:43:34]  I'm a pimp on a plan, dude.
[00:43:35]  You know what I mean?
[00:43:36]  I don't need $20.
[00:43:36]  But let's, you got one minute.
[00:43:38]  What do you want to say, Tony?
[00:43:39]  All right, so what I wanted to discuss, you guys actually touched on it briefly.
[00:43:42]  Can you, sorry, just get in close to the mic.
[00:43:44]  So what I wanted to discuss, and you guys actually talked about it or touched on it briefly, was actually the, I guess, sale of U.S. citizens to private prison industry in the United States and how that would be any different than Selling U.S. citizens to CECOT, for example.
[00:44:04]  I believe that there's already a precedent that's set in the United States where we do pass or sell inmates along, from my personal knowledge, working as a corrections officer for a few years.
[00:44:15]  And I believe that it would be as simple as creating a territory or creating CECOT, a territory within, I'm sorry, creating a territory within CECOT that is ran by the BOP.
[00:44:29]  I think it's a wonderful question.
[00:44:31]  All right, sit down.
[00:44:31]  And so, for those who didn't hear, he asked, what about the comparison to private prisons and the fact that we outsource and contract private entities to take on the responsibility of the government, specifically with incarceration of individuals, both of, you know, for crimes and immigration?
[00:44:43]  Wait, but Pisco, I'm going to say, I'm more surprised that a guy with prison tattoos is that eloquent.
[00:44:47]  I mean, I can't believe that.
[00:44:49]  I mean, I can't believe that.
[00:44:49]  Where did that go?
[00:44:50]  Where did you come from?
[00:44:52]  I'm seeing those metal tattoos.
[00:44:53]  Oh, yeah, yeah.
[00:44:53]  He's got the skull of gang, the marijuana leaf.
[00:44:56]  I mean, man.
[00:44:57]  That's gangster.
[00:44:58]  The M, right?
[00:44:59]  It's a great question.
[00:45:00]  The underside's actually the fireman's prayer.
[00:45:02]  Oh, that's wonderful.
[00:45:04]  Yeah, but you do have a weed flower on your arm, right?
[00:45:06]  True, that's the M. Most definitely.
[00:45:08]  That's the M. Talk into the mic.
[00:45:10]  We want to hear you, Tiny.
[00:45:11]  Okay, your clock starts now, so yeah, go ahead.
[00:45:13]  It's a fantastic thing to say, because I think it's...
[00:45:16]  On all fours.
[00:45:17]  It's exactly the comparison.
[00:45:18]  Bukele is being used as a contractor.
[00:45:20]  And that plays into my argument and the argument of the plaintiffs, which is Bukele is not exercising the sovereign power of El Salvador by keeping Abrego Garcia in detention.
[00:45:30]  He is being contracted by the U.S. government to hold him.
[00:45:33]  Now, I know that's just not true, though.
[00:45:35]  There's an argument like, oh, they're only paying money for the Venezuelans.
[00:45:38]  That's all a fugazi.
[00:45:39]  It's all a lie.
[00:45:40]  You know, obviously he's working at the behest of the U.S. government.
[00:45:42]  Hold on.
[00:45:43]  More Socratic dialogue.
[00:45:44]  Go for it.
[00:45:44]  Go for it.
[00:45:45]  Okay, so if, under normal circumstances, Joe Biden had sent back a Salvadoran gang member, a legal alien, to Bukele, right?
[00:45:54]  And say there was some financial arrangement, even, between Bukele.
[00:45:57]  Not necessarily related to this particular person, but there was a financial arrangement.
[00:45:59]  It's then, suddenly, if there's some problem, is he able to, like, demand that he be sent back to the United States?
[00:46:05]  I think that there's an existing contractual relationship, an existing constructive custody, you would argue, that this person is continually...
[00:46:14]  It's not like one and done event.
[00:46:16]  It's, why is this person in...
[00:46:18]  I don't actually think he's in Sikha anymore.
[00:46:20]  I think they transferred him someplace else.
[00:46:22]  But like, why is he in custody in the first place?
[00:46:25]  Is he being in custody because he's being charged with a crime by Bukele?
[00:46:28]  Is he being, you know, why is he in fact in prison?
[00:46:30]  And the truth is, or in wherever he is, it's because he's acting at the behest of America and everyone kind of knows it.
[00:46:37]  And the fact that we all kind of acknowledge, I don't think that's true at all.
[00:46:40]  Well, I have a question for you, Pisco.
[00:46:42]  What is the legal process for imprisoning someone in El Salvador?
[00:46:49]  Me neither.
[00:46:50]  I wonder why you're bringing up a foreign country's...
[00:46:53]  Criminal justice systems for their own citizens.
[00:46:55]  Oh, I'm sorry, you're talking about the internal domestic process in El Salvador?
[00:46:59]  Yes.
[00:47:00]  Yeah, it's at the whims of the dictator.
[00:47:03]  So, are there other dictators that you're concerned about in other parts of the world?
[00:47:07]  100% I am, yes I am.
[00:47:07]  That you don't frequently debate about?
[00:47:09]  Well, I don't frequently debate about it when it...
[00:47:11]  I don't think we have to be so chauvinist to assume that every country's...
[00:47:14]  You know, process system being different, especially El Salvador, which has had 30 years of gang violence, for them to be like, no, sorry, you have gang tattoos, you're going to jail.
[00:47:22]  But I don't even think we need to argue that, because I think there is a moral worldview difference between us, and I don't mean this as respectfully, in that my view is, hey, we're America, we take care of America, if El Salvador's being shitty, I mean, that's El Salvador, and this guy's their citizen in their country, if they decide to put him in prison, that's not our fucking problem.
[00:47:40]  Yeah, but you're ignoring the process of how he got there and how...
[00:47:45]  Yeah, it's...
[00:47:47]  So, again, if...
[00:47:49]  You know, I actually...
[00:47:50]  I asked this of Kristi Noem.
[00:47:51]  Can we just give him his hearing?
[00:47:53]  And be done with it because we know that in the end we are correct.
[00:47:56]  And her response was, it's out of our jurisdiction now anyway.
[00:47:59]  So I have a question.
[00:48:01]  To kind of bring it back to what we were discussing here, right?
[00:48:03]  I think we kind of went a little further.
[00:48:05]  So we already run programs very similar here in the United States.
[00:48:09]  With the 187G program, Sheriff Chuck Jenkins up in Frederick County, Maryland, has been running that for many years now.
[00:48:16]  And has been very successful prior to the Trump administration.
[00:48:19]  In the United States, right?
[00:48:20]  Very correct.
[00:48:21]  But my point is, Those inmates, he is being compensated by the United States government to house them in a special wing.
[00:48:29]  His deputies are deputized as federal marshals or federal agents.
[00:48:33]  Why would it be any different if we rented out a wing in Seacott and sent inmates there?
[00:48:39]  No differently than what we do now in America.
[00:48:42]  Two things.
[00:48:43]  One is, I think that your description of that relationship is completely correct.
[00:48:46]  I think that's exactly what's happening with Bukele there, in the sense that, yes, the U.S. government is contracting a party to enforce immigration law, but the reason why it's different is...
[00:48:57]  the deprivation for which due process applies is the physical removal from the country.
[00:49:03]  And so when you deport him to another place, you've now done the deprivation for which there is due process.
[00:49:10]  And so that's my answer to that is, in theory, I guess I wouldn't have a problem with the law of contracting like some foreigner.
[00:49:16]  I don't like it, but legally, I don't know if that's a problem.
[00:49:19]  That's it.
[00:49:20]  That's your time.
[00:49:21]  I just want to point out real quick, this guy right here is a Maryland man with knuckle tattoos.
[00:49:27]  What do you do for a living, Tiny?
[00:49:30]  What do you do?
[00:49:30]  Do you mind saying?
[00:49:31]  What do you do?
[00:49:32]  No comment.
[00:49:33]  Damn.
[00:49:34]  That means he sells weed, is what that means.
[00:49:36]  All right.
[00:49:36]  Now, actually, I got some information that, even though it is a little bit of a sausage party, that I think we have a lady with the courage to step up to the microphone.
[00:49:47]  So with that being said...
[00:49:50]  Okay, I said lady.
[00:49:53]  Oh!
[00:49:55]  That's gratuitous.
[00:49:57]  Now, with all that being said, let's welcome the one, the only, and Dr. Nate!
[00:50:02]  Give her a round of applause, guys.
[00:50:04]  Come on.
[00:50:05]  Thank you, thank you, thank you.
[00:50:05]  Oh, my God.
[00:50:07]  It is such a fucking sausage party.
[00:50:09]  Also, I want to say you're pissing me off, Pisco, but I'm going to try to say this without getting angry.
[00:50:15]  Okay.
[00:50:17]  If...
[00:50:17]  Kilmar comes back.
[00:50:18]  Talk into the mic.
[00:50:19]  Sorry.
[00:50:19]  Sorry.
[00:50:19]  Get real close to the mic.
[00:50:21]  Can you hear me?
[00:50:22]  Pull it off.
[00:50:22]  Take it off.
[00:50:23]  Because we're recording this.
[00:50:25]  So we can't use you if we can't hear.
[00:50:26]  So talk into the mic.
[00:50:28]  Thank you, T-Bone.
[00:50:29]  So, all right.
[00:50:30]  First of all, this guy's name is Kilmar.
[00:50:33]  Like, he sounds fucking crazy.

=== Why He's Frightening (15:19) ===

[00:50:35]  Like, he's frightening as fuck.
[00:50:37]  Okay.
[00:50:37]  I mean, he is.
[00:50:39]  Like, just demonstrably.
[00:50:40]  Uninterrupted.
[00:50:40]  Uninterrupted.
[00:50:41]  Let her talk.
[00:50:41]  Are you from Maryland?
[00:50:42]  No.
[00:50:43]  Okay.
[00:50:43]  So I was born and raised in Maryland.
[00:50:45]  Shout out to Maryland.
[00:50:48]  Shout out to the East Coasters in here.
[00:50:50]  Let me tell you something about MS-13.
[00:50:53]  If this guy comes back, he's going to be beating his wife, beating others, and back to the bullshit.
[00:50:59]  All the trafficking, everything he's up to that is alleged, he's going to be back on his bullshit and even bigger.
[00:51:07]  I don't think, you know, I'll speak for myself, but I don't think my community wants or desires to bring those characters back.
[00:51:17]  We are extremely happy for their deportations, and we are extremely happy that he can't come back, that he's trapped in El Salvador.
[00:51:24]  I was waiting for a question like this because this strikes at the moral perspective, not the fact-based legal perspective.
[00:51:35]  And so there's this air of, we can't deport people like this because it's a slippery slope that results in injustice elsewhere.
[00:51:42]  That strikes at a...
[00:51:45]  Procedural, legal, slippery slope, a lot of things.
[00:51:48]  But it doesn't ask the moral questions a community wants answered.
[00:51:51]  In that, if this was the 1800s, they'd have thrown this motherfucker out of town.
[00:51:57]  And if he came back...
[00:51:59]  He would have been lynched.
[00:52:00]  They would have fucking killed this guy if he came back.
[00:52:03]  I don't want that to happen to anybody.
[00:52:05]  But the point is, the way communities treat people who wrong them, there is a question there.
[00:52:13]  I appreciate what you're asking about the moral question.
[00:52:15]  What's the answer there?
[00:52:16]  We hate it.
[00:52:17]  Okay.
[00:52:17]  Go ahead.
[00:52:18]  Yeah, so you brought up the lynching.
[00:52:19]  I just want to say, because I think that's an interesting point.
[00:52:22]  I think there is a moral dimension to procedural questions, but I'm going to ignore it for the purpose of this, because I do think that...
[00:52:28]  I don't know if you guys ever watched The Hateful Eight.
[00:52:31]  Yeah, it's my favorite Tarantino movie.
[00:52:33]  And one of the characters says, that's frontier justice.
[00:52:36]  And that's frontier justice.
[00:52:37]  And the reason why we don't agree with that on a moral dimension is you're just as likely, you know, you're likely to be wrong sometimes.
[00:52:42]  So here's my question for you.
[00:52:45]  Is Gilmar Obrego-Gracia innocent until proven guilty of the crimes that the media is alleging him of doing?
[00:52:50]  He doesn't get to be judged by those terms because he's not a citizen of the United States.
[00:52:55]  So I just want to be clear.
[00:52:58]  Do you believe that either it is the case or it ought to be the case that non-U.S.
[00:53:03]  citizens should not have trials for the crimes they're accused of?
[00:53:08]  I think that what you're referencing is, like, a waste of our money.
[00:53:13]  So we should not be...
[00:53:15]  There's no reason to bring him here, do all this bullshit.
[00:53:20]  We've paid enough in Maryland, okay?
[00:53:22]  So the answer, no, you don't think non-citizens should get trials for the crimes they're accused of?
[00:53:25]  No, that's a loaded question!
[00:53:27]  Why is it loaded?
[00:53:29]  Because the issue is, should somebody who lives in this country, permanent resident, versus an illegal immigrant adjudicated as MS-13, whose penalty is deportation?
[00:53:40]  Right.
[00:53:41]  Here's the point.
[00:53:41]  If someone comes here and breaks the law, and the end result is going to be deportation, how do we have a trial for them when they're gone?
[00:53:49]  Why force them to stay here if we're going to remove them anyway?
[00:53:53]  These are people who hate America, hate our community, they hate abiding by the law, they hate us, they hate U.S. citizens, and they just mooch and mooch and mooch while literally terrorizing our community and tearing us apart.
[00:54:07]  They're like Asian provocateurs.
[00:54:09]  Let me ask you a question.
[00:54:11]  Do you believe that an illegal immigrant should get their due process?
[00:54:16]  That doesn't mean jury trial.
[00:54:18]  It means the standard legal process that is fair under the law for determining whether they're a citizen.
[00:54:24]  I think that, I think no, in that the original crime being that they came to this country illegally.
[00:54:29]  But that's what I'm asking you.
[00:54:31]  The due process I'm asking if you would accept is, a man is walking down the street, the cops stop him, the due process here is, we must determine if he's a citizen or not.
[00:54:40]  Should they do that?
[00:54:42]  They should determine if he's a citizen or not.
[00:54:44]  Under what process?
[00:54:45]  Who do you trust to determine who's a citizen?
[00:54:48]  Border Patrol.
[00:54:49]  I actually got pulled over by Border Patrol recently, and they did a great job.
[00:54:54]  Here's the problem.
[00:54:54]  When you put a hole in due process, this is why I don't agree with these categorical exceptions, once you put one hole in due process, now the government, just by their own discretion, is going to put everyone they don't like in that hole.
[00:55:06]  No, no, no.
[00:55:08]  If you have nothing to hide, you should have no fucking...
[00:55:10]  That's classic neocon language.
[00:55:12]  What the fuck are you talking about?
[00:55:14]  If you have nothing to hide...
[00:55:17]  Pulled over by border patrol shouldn't be frightening.
[00:55:20]  What makes America great is our structure, our constitution, our way of life.
[00:55:27]  People will often bring up to me the Carter Page FISA warrants that the Department of Justice got on Carter Page.
[00:55:34]  You guys remember this, the Russiagate stuff, right?
[00:55:36]  Those Carter Page warrants were wrongfully obtained.
[00:55:39]  And you guys cared about them.
[00:55:40]  Why do you care about them?
[00:55:41]  You care about them because you don't want the government to intrude.
[00:55:44]  This isn't even a matter of detention.
[00:55:46]  It's not a matter of execution.
[00:55:48]  So you...
[00:55:49]  I assume that you care.
[00:55:51]  It's called a rhetorical...
[00:55:53]  It's called...
[00:55:54]  Hey, hey, hey, dipshit.
[00:55:56]  Hey, dipshit.
[00:55:56]  It's called a rhetorical question.
[00:55:57]  Bro, you gotta come up.
[00:55:58]  Hey, dipshit.
[00:55:59]  It's called a rhetorical question.
[00:56:00]  Hey, dipshit.
[00:56:01]  It's called a rhetorical question.
[00:56:02]  You ever heard of it?
[00:56:03]  Wait, wait.
[00:56:03]  So yes or no?
[00:56:04]  Yes or no?
[00:56:04]  Have you ever heard of a rhetorical question?
[00:56:06]  Don't call him a dipshit.
[00:56:08]  Dipshit.
[00:56:08]  Yes or no?
[00:56:09]  Have you heard a rhetorical question?
[00:56:11]  Wait, wait, wait.
[00:56:12]  We will ask you to come up because...
[00:56:15]  Yeah, that's four minutes for Dr. Nate.
[00:56:17]  Let's wrap up.
[00:56:18]  If you've got a little bit more because we kind of went off.
[00:56:21]  No, seriously though, what do you say, Pisco, to the communities in Silver Spring, Gaithersburg, these communities who have for the last 40 years been inundated with these illegal immigrants and dreamers?
[00:56:32]  Freedom, this is what I say.
[00:56:34]  I say, freedom isn't free.
[00:56:35]  Every time we give a trial to someone who's an accused rapist, an accused murderer, it costs the state and the people of Maryland a lot of money.
[00:56:45]  But the reason we do that is, when we don't, we live...
[00:56:50]  We live at the discretion.
[00:56:51]  When we don't, we live at the discretion of the state.
[00:56:53]  And you shouldn't be government bootlicking shills that just trust the government to do everything you want.
[00:56:57]  And while I can agree with the government shill stuff, what I will say is, it's the only thing I heard there was, it's not in my fucking backyard, so I don't give a shit.
[00:57:07]  Thank you.
[00:57:08]  That is bullshit.
[00:57:09]  That is complete bullshit.
[00:57:13]  That's a cop-out.
[00:57:14]  I'm gonna tell you guys something I shouldn't fucking say.
[00:57:17]  We've got...
[00:57:18]  I've got property.
[00:57:20]  In the area with MS-13 now trying to occupy it, I had to fucking contact the FBI.
[00:57:26]  And so I've got these liberals who don't live here, who don't know that there are gunshots, that there are people running scared, and they're saying, bring this guy back.
[00:57:35]  Now, I'm going to pause.
[00:57:36]  I don't want false warrants or bullshit.
[00:57:39]  The reason why I asked about due process under the law is for an illegal immigrant, if they're stopped, like, usually you guys stop by CBP.
[00:57:48]  The law as it is now is an officer makes a determination if they're a citizen or not, and they have expedited removal, I believe within two years.
[00:57:55]  And I was talking to Myron Gaines about this the other day.
[00:57:57]  He was an ICE agent.
[00:57:58]  He says, often we just, we lock them up, get a plane, they send them home.
[00:58:02]  That's the due process.
[00:58:04]  That's the due process.
[00:58:05]  Real quick, we don't need a criminal trial after we say get the fuck out.
[00:58:08]  Wait, wait, wait.
[00:58:09]  Exactly.
[00:58:10]  When did you hear me?
[00:58:11]  When did you hear me say that we need a trial?
[00:58:13]  In fact, I went and I said, J.D. Vance is a fucking liar because he says we're asking for trials.
[00:58:19]  What you just talked about, this proceeding in front of a judge, and really for expedited removal, it's usually not even default a judge.
[00:58:25]  It's just an immigration officer.
[00:58:28]  So we're not talking here about a ton of due process.
[00:58:31]  And I agree with you on that.
[00:58:32]  So all we're talking about here are minimum standards.
[00:58:34]  They didn't even give a notice before they left.
[00:58:37]  They're trying to say that you're saying...
[00:58:39]  Freedom isn't free, but you want them to stay here on our dime.
[00:58:43]  It's costly, right?
[00:58:45]  What the fuck?
[00:58:46]  Nobody wants to pay that.
[00:58:47]  You understand this.
[00:58:48]  Freedom is costly.
[00:58:49]  The freedom of speech is costly.
[00:58:51]  The freedom to have guns is costly.
[00:58:53]  Make El Salvador pay.
[00:58:55]  But what is Trump doing?
[00:58:57]  Trump is not making El Salvador pay.
[00:58:59]  Trump is paying El Salvador.
[00:59:00]  Trump is paying El Salvador when really...
[00:59:03]  He is entitled under our own law.
[00:59:05]  Congress passes a law.
[00:59:07]  Congress passes the Immigration Nationality Act.
[00:59:09]  And it says we're going to bind the executive to these rules.
[00:59:11]  What good is our country?
[00:59:13]  What good is our society if we don't follow the rules we set for ourselves?
[00:59:17]  Surely we must follow the law.
[00:59:18]  I want to say something.
[00:59:20]  I'm curious to hear Will's response.
[00:59:23]  Let me say something and then I want to hear Will's response to this.
[00:59:27]  I love the Founding Fathers.
[00:59:30]  They were brilliant, brilliant people.
[00:59:32]  They put together the best government we've seen.
[00:59:36]  We love another man gay.
[00:59:38]  Now here's the issue.
[00:59:39]  Here's the issue.
[00:59:40]  They certainly did recognize emergency powers.
[00:59:43]  They certainly did recognize when the executive would need to take actions that were considered probably extreme.
[00:59:49]  We have seen instances throughout history.
[00:59:51]  The challenge I see now is determining when we are facing an existential crisis.
[00:59:56]  And whether or not we're going to be like the Catalonians sitting on our hands like anarchists being like, well, we're being wiped the fuck out by invaders, but let's not do anything because we have a process to deal with.
[01:00:07]  Or if we're going to step to attention and say, I understand the moral qualms with this process, how things are being handled, but holy shit, how do we deal with narco gangs, cartels, etc., when they're actively killing people, they're invading our homes.
[01:00:22]  And so the question is, at what point...
[01:00:25]  Do these platitudes of democratic society, and I don't mean I want this to happen.
[01:00:31]  My question is legitimately, at what points do we have to say, holy shit, the system failed because we have been invaded?
[01:00:39]  Okay.
[01:00:40]  Well, Alex, Alex, I'm going to answer his question, then you can start.
[01:00:43]  Okay?
[01:00:45]  So, the answer is that the Constitution provides that flexibility, right?
[01:00:49]  Like, the due process that we're actually talking about here in all this context isn't really constitutional.
[01:00:53]  It's statutory.
[01:00:55]  The withholding of removal is a grant by statute.
[01:00:58]  The Convention of Torture comes from a treaty, but it ultimately is implemented by statute.
[01:01:02]  Congress can change the law and change what due process is entitled to.
[01:01:07]  Sorry, real quick interject.
[01:01:11]  I hear this a lot, but it is not getting to the core.
[01:01:14]  We know Congress doesn't fucking work.
[01:01:16]  We know that we have a two-seat majority.
[01:01:18]  Too bad.
[01:01:19]  We have a republic, not a dictatorship.
[01:01:21]  And I'm not advocating for one.
[01:01:22]  I'm telling you that at a certain point, people start shooting motherfuckers.
[01:01:25]  Because when the people who live in Maryland are like, MS-13 has shot a child in my neighborhood, they're not going to wait.
[01:01:31]  That's not what they're voting for.
[01:01:32]  They voted for Van Hollen.
[01:01:34]  They voted for Van Hollen.
[01:01:38]  You are misunderstanding.
[01:01:40]  Dude, my point dreamers voted for Van Hollen.
[01:01:43]  So you want rule by minority.
[01:01:45]  You guys want rule by minority government.
[01:01:47]  I mean, that's crazy.
[01:01:48]  No, let's pause.
[01:01:49]  I am not prescribing anything.
[01:01:51]  I am describing something.
[01:01:54]  Right now, Congress cannot answer these questions for anybody, nor are the courts, nor is the executive branch.
[01:02:00]  You've got people split massively across this country, near 50-50, ready to tear each other's heads off, and the idea that Congress will change something is a pipe dream.
[01:02:11]  I'm not saying I want to, but I don't know what's going to happen.
[01:02:14]  I'm saying, what happens?
[01:02:15]  I mean, this is the reason, I mean, we might actually have a different interesting debate about the Alien Enemies Act at this point, right?
[01:02:20]  Because this is where I would come back and say, what Trump is doing in the Alien Enemies Act is right and just, the courts are overreaching, and so, like, Trump should continue.
[01:02:32]  Should ignore the courts.
[01:02:34]  Well, I mean, at a certain point, like, you know, ignoring and defying the courts is something that's been done historically.
[01:02:39]  So if the Supreme Court says you can't do this, this alien enemy act invocation is invalid, you would say, Trump, you should disobey that?
[01:02:45]  Depends.
[01:02:45]  Depends on the reasoning of the Supreme Court.
[01:02:48]  If they say, the President, you know, we don't get to change your facts.
[01:02:51]  Just like the Texas...
[01:02:52]  I don't know if you've read the...
[01:02:53]  I read that Texas opinion.
[01:02:54]  If they use that logic, I actually think that should be defied.
[01:02:57]  I don't think that the Supreme Court should have the authority to determine what a war is.
[01:03:00]  I think that's such an obvious encroachment.
[01:03:03]  Trump should defy the Supreme Court.
[01:03:05]  He should.
[01:03:06]  I am at the point where when Democrats called for packing the Supreme Court, I agreed with them.
[01:03:10]  When Democrats arrested lawyers, I agreed with them.
[01:03:13]  Bullshit.
[01:03:13]  What bullshit you agreed with the Dems back in the court?
[01:03:16]  Show me that.
[01:03:17]  No, no, no.
[01:03:17]  Show me that clip.
[01:03:18]  Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[01:03:19]  Show me that clip.
[01:03:21]  I could be wrong.
[01:03:24]  When the Democrats said we should have, we have 13, what is it, 13 federal, what are they called?
[01:03:29]  Districts?
[01:03:29]  They're not districts, right?
[01:03:30]  Federal circuits?
[01:03:31]  There's 12 in the federal circuits.
[01:03:33]  And there's only nine justices.
[01:03:34]  They said, we need to add four more.
[01:03:35]  I said, fuck yeah, we do when Trump wins, baby!
[01:03:38]  Oh, but that's not what you said.
[01:03:40]  That's not what you said.
[01:03:41]  Okay, all right, in Dr. Nate, guys, in Dr. Nate, before you go, how did George Floyd die?
[01:03:46]  Will you tell him?
[01:03:48]  George Floyd, oh my god, this is awkward.
[01:03:50]  I know, because you're an African-American.
[01:03:52]  How did he die?
[01:03:53]  This is awkward also because I'm...
[01:03:54]  How did he die?
[01:03:57]  He overdosed.
[01:03:58]  No, he didn't.
[01:03:59]  No, no.
[01:03:59]  Listen, wait, wait, wait, wait.
[01:04:02]  Let me just say this.
[01:04:03]  It's awkward because I stand here also known as the only black woman watching Tim Cass.
[01:04:09]  Wait a second.
[01:04:10]  I'm going to tell you something, okay?
[01:04:12]  This guy was a fucking menace to society.
[01:04:14]  So when you overdose on opioids, do you struggle for life like this?
[01:04:18]  Have you ever seen a tweaker?
[01:04:19]  Have you ever been to Baltimore?
[01:04:22]  What the fuck are you talking about?
[01:04:24]  You've never seen a tweaker?
[01:04:24]  Where do you live?
[01:04:25]  Guys, guys, guys, guys, wait, wait, wait, wait.
[01:04:27]  He had meth in his system too.
[01:04:31]  It's called a speedball.
[01:04:34]  I encourage you to listen to the testimony of Dr. Tobin, who was the pulmonary cardiologist in that case.
[01:04:39]  He was incredibly convincing.
[01:04:41]  And it was the agonal breaths.
[01:04:44]  And when you die of a dose like that, it's like you're falling into a sleep.
[01:04:48]  You're falling into a sleep.
[01:04:49]  It's not like you're struggling.
[01:04:50]  You're struggling for your life like he was.
[01:04:52]  I just want to say Derek Chauvin showed up after Floyd was already on the ground and engaged in a hold that he was trained to by the Minneapolis Police Department.
[01:05:02]  Garbage.
[01:05:02]  And the defense...
[01:05:03]  The prosecution actually argued on the continuum of force he was entitled to use more force than he used.
[01:05:09]  No, they didn't.
[01:05:10]  Yes, they did.
[01:05:11]  No, they didn't.
[01:05:11]  Yes, they did.
[01:05:12]  I watched the whole trial.
[01:05:13]  I watched the whole trial.
[01:05:16]  So, to be clear, were they justified if they wanted to shoot him in the head?
[01:05:19]  No.
[01:05:20]  Why not?
[01:05:23]  So would you say that that application was deadly force?
[01:05:26]  I know.
[01:05:26]  The kneeling on the neck area?
[01:05:28]  Yeah, okay.
[01:05:29]  So after George Floyd stops struggling for his life because he's dead, is the application of force still justified after he's literally devoid of life?

=== Follow the Constitution (14:12) ===

[01:05:38]  Yes.
[01:05:40]  So when he's no longer...
[01:05:42]  You're saying it was justified to use that hold indefinitely.
[01:05:46]  Is that right?
[01:05:48]  I certainly didn't say indefinitely.
[01:05:50]  I'm asking you the question.
[01:05:51]  Let me say this.
[01:05:54]  I certainly never said indefinitely.
[01:05:55]  I'm asking.
[01:05:56]  But let me just stress.
[01:05:57]  We're talking about kneeling on somebody after the fact.
[01:06:01]  You didn't know what was going on.
[01:06:03]  You showed up after the fact.
[01:06:04]  And I will say this.
[01:06:05]  There's, of course, degrees on a continuum of use of force.
[01:06:09]  Chauvin showed up.
[01:06:10]  He was already on the ground.
[01:06:12]  He applied a hold that he was trained to do.
[01:06:14]  I would argue...
[01:06:16]  I would argue it is fair to get him on some kind of negligent charge.
[01:06:20]  Oh, so he did do a crime?
[01:06:22]  All right, next!
[01:06:23]  He just said it!
[01:06:24]  He just said it!
[01:06:25]  He just said you should get him on a negligent charge.
[01:06:26]  That's a crime!
[01:06:27]  What I love about this guy is that he will take any more so he can get and turn it into the fucking apocalypse.
[01:06:31]  You just said, right?
[01:06:32]  But you know this?
[01:06:34]  Since you are an attorney, you know that he has what is called qualified immunity.
[01:06:37]  That's for civil matters.
[01:06:38]  That's for civil.
[01:06:39]  It's not for criminal.
[01:06:39]  That's for damages cases and civil cases.
[01:06:41]  Why did the guy who simply held back the crowd go to prison?
[01:06:43]  Qualified immunity applies to civil damages cases, not to criminal matters.
[01:06:48]  Why did the man who was simply holding back the crowd go to prison?
[01:06:52]  Answer my question.
[01:06:52]  Don't weasel out of it, alright?
[01:06:54]  Don't weasel out of it.
[01:06:55]  You agree, first of all, you agree that you should have charged Chauvin with a crime.
[01:06:58]  You just said it, right?
[01:06:59]  Oh, that question is pussy shit!
[01:07:02]  That question is pussy shit!
[01:07:05]  Yeah.
[01:07:05]  All right, guys, guys, we need to bring somebody new up.
[01:07:08]  All right, we got to indoctrinate.
[01:07:10]  Get your ass off the stage.
[01:07:11]  Thank you so much.
[01:07:12]  Thank you.
[01:07:13]  All right, all right.
[01:07:13]  That guy, the guy in the beanie come up that's been going crazy.
[01:07:17]  We're enjoying ourselves.
[01:07:18]  Come on down.
[01:07:19]  We fist bump.
[01:07:19]  Yeah, you, come on down.
[01:07:20]  Hurry up, dude.
[01:07:21]  You got one minute.
[01:07:22]  Guys, we only have a certain amount of time left, so we need to get this show on the road so we can get as many people up here to debate.
[01:07:27]  So go ahead.
[01:07:27]  You got one minute.
[01:07:28]  So, I don't understand, like, why you're arguing to people in a community that they should bring criminals back into it.
[01:07:35]  Like, you argue things that you don't possess.
[01:07:38]  Like, a moral dimension.
[01:07:40]  Like, you don't give a fuck about America.
[01:07:42]  You're on the side that kills children.
[01:07:45]  50 million babies in the last 50 fucking years.
[01:07:49]  325,000 children fucking sex trafficked.
[01:07:52]  Fucking 50,000 little girls had their...
[01:07:57]  Because of the way your party fucking votes.
[01:07:59]  You're leading us to a path that only leads in violence, and I want to know fucking why.
[01:08:06]  Yeah, so...
[01:08:07]  Sit down.
[01:08:09]  In the industry, we call that a gish gallop.
[01:08:12]  So you just raise a bunch of different issues that are not topical, abortion, trans issues, and basically, like, you're doing anything, right?
[01:08:22]  And I can tell to distract from the issue at hand, which is, is this just, and should it be brought back?
[01:08:29]  Point of order, point of order, point of order.
[01:08:33]  Gish gallop.
[01:08:35]  Does not apply when we actually tell him he gets one minute unfettered to make it.
[01:08:38]  Yeah, to whatever.
[01:08:39]  Well, you can still get your minute.
[01:08:40]  He doesn't understand.
[01:08:41]  You still get your minute, but I'm just telling you, you're all over the place, alright?
[01:08:46]  So try to stay focused.
[01:08:48]  The issue isn't...
[01:08:49]  So, would you agree that Kilmar, Abreu Garcia, has the right to a presumption of innocence of the people who are accusing him of crimes?
[01:08:56]  Yes or no?
[01:08:57]  Why are you continuing to argue positions that will bring society to violence?
[01:09:03]  Should there be a presumption of innocence, yes or no?
[01:09:06]  For an illegal alien?
[01:09:07]  No.
[01:09:08]  He's not fucking innocent.
[01:09:09]  He's here illegally.
[01:09:11]  Deport him.
[01:09:11]  Why do you want American citizens to pay more fucking money to bring him back to deport him again?
[01:09:18]  That's fucking retarded!
[01:09:19]  Should U.S. murderers get trials?
[01:09:22]  United Citizens do!
[01:09:24]  If you're an illegal alien, You fucking don't!
[01:09:28]  The due process is, are you a citizen?
[01:09:30]  No!
[01:09:30]  Okay, get the fuck out!
[01:09:32]  Calm the fuck down.
[01:09:33]  Don't tell him to calm down.
[01:09:34]  I'll tell him to calm down.
[01:09:36]  We love the passion, but we'll turn it...
[01:09:38]  You look like you're about to blow it up.
[01:09:39]  You look like you're gonna blow it up.
[01:09:41]  Don't listen to those libtards or that libtard.
[01:09:43]  Don't listen to them.
[01:09:45]  I grew up with a loud family, so eight or seven is my regular.
[01:09:48]  We have a constitution.
[01:09:50]  We should follow it.
[01:09:51]  That's what being American means.
[01:09:53]  We should follow the fucking Constitution.
[01:09:54]  Okay, then the fucking Biden administration shouldn't have let 20 fucking million illegals in.
[01:09:58]  What about Islam?
[01:09:59]  What about Islam?
[01:09:59]  Wait, wait, wait.
[01:10:00]  So should we follow the Constitution or not, sir?
[01:10:04]  Yes.
[01:10:04]  Okay, so if the Constitution...
[01:10:06]  So you just said...
[01:10:07]  He just said we should follow the Constitution.
[01:10:09]  If the Constitution says that these people do get due process rights, should we follow that?
[01:10:14]  So the Constitution...
[01:10:15]  Yes or no?
[01:10:17]  No.
[01:10:19]  So you don't think we should follow the Constitution when you decide?
[01:10:22]  How about asking me why on my opinions instead of just fucking assuming like every fucking midwit leftist does?
[01:10:28]  This is a lot.
[01:10:29]  So he said, we should follow the Constitution.
[01:10:31]  And then the next thing I asked him, I said, if it says that these people should get rights under the Constitution, should we follow?
[01:10:36]  He says, no.
[01:10:37]  So explain that.
[01:10:37]  And so let me interject here.
[01:10:39]  Because I think I know exactly what you're saying when you brought up Biden letting in 20 million illegal immigrants.
[01:10:44]  As Bill Ackman stated, a country that lets in 20 million people unvetted but then cannot remove them will lose its democratic values.
[01:10:54]  Listen, I want due process for everybody.
[01:10:57]  I want constitutional rights where they apply.
[01:10:59]  I am scared and confused right now because we have an untenable situation with immigration caused by Democrats.
[01:11:07]  I don't know what to do.
[01:11:10]  So when you come out and say, we are now shackled!
[01:11:13]  To a system that will kill our country, I say, I don't know that anyone will accept that.
[01:11:18]  All we can do is tell the left to stop because you're leading us towards violence.
[01:11:24]  You are leading the country towards violence.
[01:11:27]  Fucking stop!
[01:11:28]  Every one of your arguments is wrong and full of every fucking logical fallacy we can think of!
[01:11:34]  Shut the fuck up!
[01:11:35]  Stop arguing for fucking destroying our country!
[01:11:38]  The enemy is within.
[01:11:40]  The people who are destroying this country are the boot-licking shills.
[01:11:47]  The boot-licking shills who just trust the government.
[01:11:50]  Who just trust the government.
[01:11:52]  Like fucking Democrats with the Biden administration?
[01:11:56]  You guys didn't criticize a single fucking thing they did!
[01:12:00]  No one in this room trusted the government under...
[01:12:05]  The point is when you say they're bootlicking shills.
[01:12:10]  It's every four years the Democrats say you're a bootlegging shill, then four years later they're the bootlegging shills.
[01:12:15]  So just to be clear, the reason why we want to follow the Constitution, even if there are people you don't like, and you can raise a lot of stank about people you don't like and why we should break the law to go after them, is we don't trust in the next four years you're not going to get a president AOC, you're not going to get a president whoever the fucking worst leftist is that you think, and now that you've made a road to the Constitution, you've made a road for your own back, and they're going to come after you, and they're going to attack your First Amendment rights, you guys all understand this.
[01:12:40]  We will erode whenever we have to to stop you because you've been eroding it for centuries.
[01:12:46]  So the real enemies are those who would tell you to give up your country.
[01:12:48]  Give up the Constitution.
[01:12:49]  Don't follow it.
[01:12:50]  You took our fucking country with the Biden administration!
[01:12:55]  This is why I brought up the question before to hear Will.
[01:13:01]  Will's like a very straight-laced forward.
[01:13:03]  I'm a lawyer.
[01:13:04]  I'll answer his questions.
[01:13:05]  That's why I wanted to hear what he had to say about it.
[01:13:07]  Here's my view.
[01:13:09]  You guys know me.
[01:13:09]  When I was young, I despised the Bush administration.
[01:13:13]  Obama came in, and before he did, I was like, everyone's telling me it's going to be different.
[01:13:17]  Then, boy, that motherfucker killed a lot of people and spied on people.
[01:13:20]  And the National Defense Authorization Act, indefinite detention provision, I said, holy shit, fuck these people.
[01:13:24]  Then Trump ran against Hillary.
[01:13:26]  And I said, holy fuck, this country is insane.
[01:13:28]  Trump wins.
[01:13:29]  And for the most part, I'm like, I don't care for this shit.
[01:13:31]  Then the Democrats started losing their fucking minds with DEI and weird fucking shit.
[01:13:37]  And then Trump...
[01:13:38]  In 2020, he said, I got no new wars.
[01:13:41]  I'm setting up a timeline for withdrawal from Afghanistan.
[01:13:43]  I'm getting rid of DEI and government contracting.
[01:13:45]  I said, actually, this is pretty good.
[01:13:47]  But what did they do to the man for those four years?
[01:13:50]  They accused him of being a traitor to this country.
[01:13:52]  Then after this, they start arresting his lawyers.
[01:13:54]  They falsely accuse him of crimes.
[01:13:56]  They claim that a misdemeanor charge, which arguably could be a single count, was 34 felonies.
[01:14:01]  They create a new law in New York so that a woman can say 30 years ago he sexually abused me.
[01:14:06]  I can't prove it.
[01:14:07]  I wore a dress from the future and I had a magic key to open the door.
[01:14:10]  And I'm sitting here watching numerous Trump lawyers get arrested.
[01:14:14]  Now we're in the Trump administration and they're begging me, please, please stick to decorum.
[01:14:20]  Don't arrest lawyers!
[01:14:21]  Don't arrest judges!
[01:14:22]  Motherfucker, you did it first!
[01:14:24]  You did this to us!
[01:14:25]  And now we're upset and saying, what do we do?
[01:14:28]  Welcome to the Civil War you started.
[01:14:31]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:14:31]  Alright, guys, give it up.
[01:14:33]  Hey, what's your name?
[01:14:34]  Say your name before you go.
[01:14:35]  I'm Nicholas Steinbrecher, Lost and Found on Discord.
[01:14:38]  Also representing the Jamcast Discord.
[01:14:42]  Thank you, Nick.
[01:14:43]  Alright, now our next debater, their name is Cash.
[01:14:47]  Did you want to respond to that?
[01:14:48]  I'm sorry.
[01:14:49]  I just wanted to have a quick point.
[01:14:51]  Did you agree with the Hopkins guy?
[01:14:52]  No, I mean, I don't agree with him, obviously.
[01:14:56]  He's a little more aggressive than I would be.
[01:14:59]  But...
[01:14:59]  I think my substantive point would be that, like, much of your argument is, like, we really need to not open Pandora's box, and I would just say I think Pandora's box has been opened pretty darn widely, you know, so.
[01:15:09]  All right, Cash, you got the mic.
[01:15:12]  The floor is yours.
[01:15:13]  All right, guys, I'm warning everyone here.
[01:15:14]  I am a libtard.
[01:15:15]  I think one of the only ones in the room.
[01:15:16]  Oh, my gosh.
[01:15:17]  Are you with me?
[01:15:18]  Oh, my gosh.
[01:15:19]  Thank you.
[01:15:20]  Thank you, Pisco, for inviting me here.
[01:15:21]  He needs a break.
[01:15:21]  Of course, of course.
[01:15:22]  Oh, yeah, that's right.
[01:15:23]  Grab the mic and hold it up so we can hear you.
[01:15:25]  So, I'm an American exceptionalist.
[01:15:26]  I love this country.
[01:15:27]  I love this Constitution.
[01:15:29]  I think Pisco brought up this point.
[01:15:30]  I mean, I can read out, like, the amendment that says that people have the rights to due process, regardless if you are a legal or a citizen.
[01:15:38]  I think that just needs to be cleared up first, that Pisco is the pro-Constitution person here.
[01:15:42]  Every single person, I heard them screaming in the room saying, illegal immigrants don't get due process.
[01:15:46]  That is against the Constitution, just to clarify that first.
[01:15:49]  Second of all, I also think it's important to acknowledge that...
[01:15:52]  I trust the US government more so with processing someone that we'd all agree is probably a bad guy, Kilmar Abrego Garcia, than some random, you know, prison in El Salvador.
[01:16:00]  I think we have a good justice system, as many of you guys might disagree.
[01:16:04]  It's crazy to me that you guys disagree with the six Republican Supreme Court justices that said that we need to facilitate his return.
[01:16:11]  Rule of law is very important in this country.
[01:16:13]  And I don't know what you guys would be saying.
[01:16:15]  I think Piscoe hinted at this.
[01:16:16]  If AOC becomes president and all of a sudden says that the January Sixers are a bigger threat to this country than the illegal immigrants, then deports them with no due process, you guys will all be crying your asses out.
[01:16:26]  100% true.
[01:16:26]  Base, base, base, base.
[01:16:27]  All right.
[01:16:27]  Grab the seat, brother.
[01:16:28]  Let me just respond to that.
[01:16:29]  That already happened!
[01:16:30]  Bullshit!
[01:16:31]  All those people got trials.
[01:16:33]  Everyone in the Jancic...
[01:16:33]  They all got due process!
[01:16:36]  All of them got due process!
[01:16:37]  And then these criminal terrorist insurrectionist thugs got let out by the criminal in the Oval Office right now.
[01:16:43]  Illegally occupying the office.
[01:16:45]  I would just like to ask a procedural question to our lawyer friends here.
[01:16:48]  If evidence is denied to the accused parties, is that due process?
[01:16:53]  Yeah, it wasn't denied.
[01:16:54]  It would be a violation of due process, but it wasn't actually denied.
[01:16:57]  That's not what I asked.
[01:16:57]  That's not what I asked.
[01:16:58]  Whether the evidence is admissible, right?
[01:17:00]  It would depend if it's admissible.
[01:17:02]  It's a whole doctrine on Brady that would apply, and so I would need to know the specific facts.
[01:17:06]  And also, I'm not an expert on Brady.
[01:17:07]  So, what did we have?
[01:17:09]  44,000 hours of footage?
[01:17:11]  This was a lie, and this was denied on the merits in the courts.
[01:17:15]  No, no, no, no.
[01:17:18]  Go for it, Will.
[01:17:19]  Okay, the actual real...
[01:17:21]  The best argument about the failure of due process in the J6 cases was the fact that...
[01:17:26]  Change of venue motions got denied.
[01:17:28]  There's no excuse that any of these trials happened in D.C. Where the crime was committed?
[01:17:32]  In a 97% Democratic district.
[01:17:34]  Who the fuck cares?
[01:17:35]  You committed the crime in a place, you do the time there.
[01:17:37]  Whoa, whoa, whoa.
[01:17:38]  I thought you cared about fair trials.
[01:17:39]  Wait, wait, wait.
[01:17:40]  Whoa, whoa, whoa.
[01:17:41]  What did that happen?
[01:17:41]  Whoa, whoa, whoa.
[01:17:43]  It's a white guy.
[01:17:44]  You don't want a fair trial anymore, do you?
[01:17:46]  So doesn't the Constitution specify...
[01:17:49]  Doesn't the Constitution specify that there is a venue provision that when you commit a crime, it shall be tried in the district in which it was committed?
[01:17:58]  Yeah, but that venue is not defeated by due process and the right to a fair trial.
[01:18:01]  So there's a presumption that a jury is able to put aside their bias, their political bias.
[01:18:06]  Yeah, but that presumption is not absolute.
[01:18:08]  What happens if a black defendant is facing a jury of all white and the prosecutors excluding...
[01:18:13]  That's a high burden to get rid of that jury.
[01:18:14]  Yeah, I don't know.
[01:18:16]  Well, think about this.
[01:18:21]  I'm not saying that.
[01:18:22]  No, I'm saying it's a high burden to show that it's racially unconstitutional.
[01:18:27]  I mean, if you look at the polling, I want to make this point, because this is, I think, the key issue which I think liberals allied all the time.
[01:18:35]  You look at the polling on, like, for example, whether liberal parents would be happy if their child came home with a conservative partner to marry.
[01:18:42]  They're not.
[01:18:42]  And in fact, in general, this number is higher than in a world where like, than cross-racial.
[01:18:48]  So I mean, I'm sorry, like the way that there's polarization in this country between Republicans and Democrats, which is literally demonstrated by this room, and also a lot of like the things intemperate that you've said about like the people in this room, is demonstrating that there's not a jury of your peers in the J6 Let me ask you another question.
[01:19:04]  Is it due process if the prosecution uses information from after the trial happened to seek a greater sentence on the individual based on speech of the individual?
[01:19:14]  No, why would it be?
[01:19:15]  Not necessarily, no.
[01:19:16]  It gets to whether or not you have regret, whether or not you...
[01:19:19]  There are factors of sentencing that you're able to, you know, that the judge has discretion to weigh.
[01:19:23]  Your speech.
[01:19:24]  Yes, your speech.
[01:19:26]  So, for example, I'll give you a case like Martin Screlly.
[01:19:27]  You guys know Martin Screlly?
[01:19:28]  Of course, yes.
[01:19:29]  So Screlly, and this is actually, you know, I think Screlly can be funny sometimes, but he, like, talks shit about Hillary Clinton when he had his trial or something, and then the judge, like, yeah, sentences him more.

=== Condemning Trump's Actions (13:29) ===

[01:19:38]  Now, you might disagree with that, but it just is the case that judges are allowed a great deal of discretion at sentencing, and that's our system.
[01:19:44]  Okay, can I introduce kind of a new topic a little bit?
[01:19:46]  Because I feel like we're going to bow down the two.
[01:19:47]  Yeah, you've got less than a minute, though.
[01:19:48]  Go ahead.
[01:19:49]  Let's give him time.
[01:19:49]  We haven't had a liberal yet, thank you.
[01:19:51]  I think that Pisco hinted at, and I was kind of talking about this in my opening speech, is that what's important to recognize here is that it sets a precedent.
[01:20:03]  These laws set a bad precedent.
[01:20:04]  I think we should also talk about Mahmoud Khalil.
[01:20:06]  I go to Georgetown.
[01:20:07]  There was a guy that was in our grad department that got deported for supporting Palestine.
[01:20:12]  literally just for supporting Palestine.
[01:20:14]  I just wanna hear the conservatives here that if AOC gets elected and designates Israel as a terrorist state, they start supporting a bunch of pro-Israel people.
[01:20:21]  I'm Jewish, I'm pro-Israel, I'd be afraid I will answer your point.
[01:20:34]  If you manage to get AOC to be president...
[01:20:40]  And she, in her bizarre wisdom, I mean, not wisdom, right?
[01:20:44]  But if she decides to say, you know what?
[01:20:47]  Like, we think the IDF is a terrorist organization.
[01:20:50]  You manage to classify it as such.
[01:20:52]  And then you say, Israelis who advocated on behalf of the IDF, she would have the authority to do so under our laws.
[01:20:56]  Like, she could deport Israelis.
[01:20:58]  She has the authority to get them due to...
[01:21:01]  Bro, bro, bro.
[01:21:03]  So, I would argue that a large...
[01:21:06]  I don't know the exact numbers.
[01:21:07]  But the Trump base is split between anti-interventionist, bye-bye Israel, and pro-Israel.
[01:21:13]  There's a lot of people who are pro-Israel, but the argument you make about the conservatives, you're going to find a lot of them are more like conservatarian, being like, yeah, I don't give a shit about Israel.
[01:21:20]  That's his point.
[01:21:21]  He's trying to...
[01:21:22]  They're not going to disagree.
[01:21:22]  They're going to cheer you on.
[01:21:25]  We're engaging in a hypothetical here.
[01:21:26]  Here's my point.
[01:21:27]  I guess the fundamental answer is, I'm happy with the Khalil deportation.
[01:21:33]  The guy hates our country.
[01:21:34]  He's a guest.
[01:21:35]  He can go home.
[01:21:36]  Like, sorry, you want to go out there and be like...
[01:21:39]  I think people that rioted the capitals hate this country more than someone criticizing foreign policy.
[01:21:43]  All the people on green card that destroyed the capitals should be deported immediately.
[01:21:48]  Some of them are not citizens that destroyed the capitals.
[01:21:54]  I got a question for Will.
[01:21:55]  You said he's a guest in our country.
[01:21:58]  He's a guest in our country, he hates our country, so we could deport him.
[01:22:02]  And that is...
[01:22:04]  The State Department has the discretion just to say, we revoke your visa.
[01:22:08]  Is there a specific criteria by which you think they're required, or do you think it's unilateral?
[01:22:12]  No, you're a guest.
[01:22:14]  Get the fuck out.
[01:22:14]  Under law?
[01:22:15]  I mean, honestly, the Secretary of State, I mean, there's a provision that was used in this case, which is the Secretary of State said, this guy's continued presence in the country is damaging to American policy.
[01:22:24]  That is very big.
[01:22:26]  AOC's president, just quickly, I understand that this will be slow, but I just think that's the law.
[01:22:30]  President AOC in 2029 says Stephen Crowder...
[01:22:35]  You are a guest in this country.
[01:22:36]  Get the fuck out of here.
[01:22:38]  He's a citizen, so that doesn't matter.
[01:22:40]  Stephen Crowder's on green card.
[01:22:41]  Viva Fry?
[01:22:42]  Viva Fry better start enjoying poutine again.
[01:22:46]  I said he's got to enjoy poutine again because he's got to go back to Canada.
[01:22:49]  Under that framework, Will, just a quick question.
[01:22:52]  The first thing relates to speech.
[01:22:54]  It also relates to the religion clauses.
[01:22:55]  Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
[01:23:00]  So, under that discretion, what can the State Department say Muslims, as a general rule, are...
[01:23:09]  That's an interesting question, because I'm not sure...
[01:23:12]  I'm not sure there's a statutory...
[01:23:14]  I mean, I guess you could make an argument.
[01:23:15]  I haven't really thought about that one.
[01:23:16]  The question is, it doesn't matter what the INA says if it violates a right, like the...
[01:23:20]  The Supreme Court's already resolved this.
[01:23:23]  There's just not a First Amendment defense to removal.
[01:23:25]  I don't think there is.
[01:23:27]  Of course there is.
[01:23:28]  I do really like this question.
[01:23:31]  Because it also strikes at how do we define religion legally?
[01:23:34]  And if we're dealing with terrorist organizations, would we allow them to use religion as a shield for their extremist ideologies, or do we separate that legally?
[01:23:44]  Right, because that also, if religion, free practice of religion, then it's like you can't...
[01:23:51]  I mean, maybe supporting a terrorist organization as a core religious belief.
[01:23:54]  Just be clear.
[01:23:55]  So you're opening the door.
[01:23:57]  Is it Caleb?
[01:23:58]  Sorry?
[01:23:58]  Cash.
[01:23:59]  Cash, sorry.
[01:23:59]  As Cash said, if you're going to allow this big room, this big hole in the First Amendment for certain speech in favor of Hamas, now you're opening the door for, okay, if you're a Christian and you're not a citizen, we can deport you just because you're a Christian.
[01:24:12]  You invaded the Capitol.
[01:24:13]  I want to say to you what you said.
[01:24:17]  Just to answer your question, you said if President AOC, What you described, most people feel happened already with Biden.
[01:24:25]  And they're wrong.
[01:24:25]  What do you mean?
[01:24:26]  Explain they're wrong.
[01:24:28]  It's not wrong that someone felt a way.
[01:24:30]  Yeah, but it's the...
[01:24:31]  Okay, I feel that you're all wrong.
[01:24:32]  Yeah, I feel that you're wrong.
[01:24:33]  And I do agree that you feel we're wrong.
[01:24:35]  My point is, you said...
[01:24:36]  You're saying nothing.
[01:24:37]  I don't understand.
[01:24:38]  You said, how would you feel if AOC became president and designated a group?
[01:24:40]  It's a way of asking the question.
[01:24:42]  Obviously, you understand.
[01:24:42]  What I'm trying to point out is the hypocrisy here.
[01:24:44]  That, of course, if AOC started deporting people that are dangerous...
[01:24:47]  And what I'm pointing out is the circumstance you described already happened.
[01:24:49]  No, it didn't.
[01:24:50]  It actually did.
[01:24:51]  There were Israeli advocates who were opposed to the two-bank solution, and Biden denied their visas simply on the ground.
[01:24:58]  Denying a visa is different than someone already in the country.
[01:25:01]  It's a lie.
[01:25:02]  You're lying purposely.
[01:25:03]  I am not lying about that.
[01:25:05]  You're making a false equivalency.
[01:25:08]  Obviously, denying a visa is a different...
[01:25:10]  It is basically the same.
[01:25:12]  You're intentionally misrepresenting a case for political points.
[01:25:18]  He could just be wrong, or he could just disagree with him.
[01:25:21]  You're not lying.
[01:25:22]  Let me tell you a story, and I want to hear your reaction to it.
[01:25:26]  Please.
[01:25:26]  There was a man and a woman in their mid-40s.
[01:25:30]  Several hours after the event of January 6th, they were in D.C. They live in Maryland.
[01:25:36]  They walked up on the backside of the Capitol where there was no violence and nothing was going on.
[01:25:41]  The doors were open.
[01:25:42]  There were no barricades.
[01:25:43]  They walked up to the building.
[01:25:44]  No police in sight.
[01:25:46]  They walked into the building.
[01:25:48]  And looked around taking pictures and walked out after about three or four minutes.
[01:25:52]  Should they go to prison?
[01:25:54]  It depends.
[01:25:55]  On what?
[01:25:56]  I love that answer.
[01:25:57]  It's the ultimate answer.
[01:25:58]  It depends.
[01:25:59]  Intuitively, no.
[01:26:00]  Sure.
[01:26:00]  Well, they fucking did.
[01:26:01]  Okay, do you know what's great, though?
[01:26:03]  Is that they now have due process and they're going to go through.
[01:26:06]  100%.
[01:26:07]  My point.
[01:26:07]  If a court finds them.
[01:26:09]  I understand.
[01:26:09]  My point was...
[01:26:11]  What you describe about AOC going after people happened to people who bumbled upon the Capitol not knowing what was going on.
[01:26:17]  Tim, I have a question.
[01:26:18]  Yeah?
[01:26:18]  If AOC took that case and just deported them instead of getting due process, would you be more mad?
[01:26:22]  Deported American citizens.
[01:26:24]  I would be mad, yes.
[01:26:25]  Okay, sorry, sorry.
[01:26:28]  If Donald Trump sends American citizens he got, I'll be mad.
[01:26:31]  Well, he says he wants, you agree he said he wants to do that, right?
[01:26:34]  And it's wrong to have said it, and it should never happen, and I will always be honest.
[01:26:37]  So do you condemn him for saying it?
[01:26:39]  I condemn...
[01:26:40]  Well, let me...
[01:26:42]  Multiple times?
[01:26:42]  Multiple times?
[01:26:43]  Right.
[01:26:43]  Let me say this.
[01:26:44]  You won't because you're beholden to the administration.
[01:26:46]  I want to try to help people understand things.
[01:26:50]  So let me give you an answer.
[01:26:52]  Piers Morgan asked me the other day...
[01:26:54]  If Joe Biden did the things Trump did, would you praise him for it?
[01:26:58]  And I said, no, probably not.
[01:27:00]  You asked me before the show.
[01:27:02]  Something similar.
[01:27:04]  And I said, the issue is that Donald Trump largely represents my moral worldview, which means I'm tolerant of his failings.
[01:27:10]  So morals mean you can violate the Constitution.
[01:27:12]  That's what you're saying.
[01:27:13]  You won't condemn it.
[01:27:13]  Let me finish what I'm saying.
[01:27:14]  Your morals, your subjective morals can violate the Constitution.
[01:27:18]  Let me finish what I'm saying.
[01:27:19]  Joe Biden largely represents things that are antithetical to my worldviews.
[01:27:23]  This is not about whether or not someone could violate the Constitution, because I already told you, Trump sending Americans to seek out is a bad thing, and I condemn that.
[01:27:30]  But you won't condemn him for saying it.
[01:27:32]  Okay, so you condemn him for violating the Constitution.
[01:27:34]  Just say it.
[01:27:35]  Say yes, and I'll let you finish.
[01:27:36]  You are loading the question.
[01:27:37]  I'm not loading the question.
[01:27:38]  It's literally, he violated the Constitution.
[01:27:40]  Do you support it, yes or not?
[01:27:40]  We are talking about if he were to do something, not did he do something.
[01:27:45]  If he already did something, we're asking you to condemn that.
[01:27:46]  If Donald Trump sent American citizens to Seacott, I would condemn him for that.
[01:27:51]  But he said he wants to do it, so do you condemn that?
[01:27:52]  I condemn those statements.
[01:27:53]  You condemn him saying that, okay, cool.
[01:27:55]  I also will tell you this.
[01:27:57]  Donald Trump should be criminally investigated for the killing of Abdurrahman Al-Awlaki's little sister in Yemen.
[01:28:03]  He gets no free passes from me, but we don't know for sure.
[01:28:06]  What we do know is that Obama admitted to it.
[01:28:08]  We know there's been accusations about Trump.
[01:28:10]  My response is accusations warrant investigation.
[01:28:13]  Admission warrant Warrants something more And yet And yet When it comes to Trump administration officials And their misconduct Like Signalgate for example He'll He'll say That was an inside job So what he'll What he'll do is With respect to your statements on Signalgate, and for time, I understand Signalgate, but I don't think it rises to...
[01:28:36]  I lay two things forward.
[01:28:38]  Trump has been accused of murdering a 7-year-old American girl.
[01:28:42]  Obama admitted that his administration killed a 16-year-old American citizen.
[01:28:45]  Neither of them were criminals.
[01:28:46]  I don't want to muddy that with SignalGate because there's such a substantive...
[01:28:49]  Wait, Tim, I think you got sidetracked from your point on Piers Morgan, though.
[01:28:52]  Are you going to finish that?
[01:28:52]  Why do you think that it's okay if Joe Biden does terrorists but Trump doesn't?
[01:28:56]  Can you defend that to me?
[01:28:57]  That was my point.
[01:28:58]  Just because Trump is more moral...
[01:29:00]  Let me explain it.
[01:29:02]  That's called moral inconsistency.
[01:29:04]  No, no, it's called...
[01:29:05]  Listen.
[01:29:06]  Donald Trump wants to secure our borders.
[01:29:08]  Our borders should be secure.
[01:29:10]  Donald Trump wants to enforce the law that I think should be enforced properly.
[01:29:14]  Joe Biden was advocating for child sterilization, okay?
[01:29:18]  Child sex change operations, I think, are pure evil.
[01:29:21]  Joe Biden took classified documents with him, and it explicitly stated it was because he wanted to write a book that he could sell.
[01:29:28]  And then he complied with the FBI when they asked him for it.
[01:29:30]  Guess what Trump didn't do when he had documents?
[01:29:32]  And his ghostwriter destroyed the evidence, worried that it was something wrong.
[01:29:36]  My point is this.
[01:29:37]  His ghostwriter, not Joe Biden, to clarify.
[01:29:38]  You and everybody else in this country has a moral worldview.
[01:29:42]  It is the utmost naivete to say, no I don't, I'm on principle.
[01:29:46]  Not true at all.
[01:29:47]  Not true at all.
[01:29:48]  Yeah, but that doesn't respond to...
[01:29:51]  Alright, come on, calm down.
[01:29:52]  What you're saying doesn't really respond to what I'm asking.
[01:29:54]  If you have morals, are some of those morals to say, not fuck up the economy with tariffs or violate the Constitution?
[01:30:00]  I'm pro-tariff.
[01:30:01]  You're pro-tariff?
[01:30:02]  I'm not pro-universal tariffs the way Trump did.
[01:30:05]  I'm pro his selective tariffs.
[01:30:06]  I watched that Piers Morgan thing you said.
[01:30:09]  You said Trump handled the, you know...
[01:30:11]  He asked about, like, the economy doing bad, and then you were like, yeah, if Joe Biden did the exact same thing, I wouldn't defend it.
[01:30:16]  What you're saying does not answer that question at all.
[01:30:18]  You understand that, right?
[01:30:19]  Let me try and explain it again.
[01:30:20]  Yes.
[01:30:21]  The simplest way I can do it without going into, like, I don't know, the Qatar-Turkey pipeline, the Suez Canal, the Crimea, and all of the things we can talk about with Michael Zatchevsky, Biden's actions overseas.
[01:30:34]  We don't need to get into that.
[01:30:35]  Sure.
[01:30:36]  I'll just keep it surface level and as simple as possible.
[01:30:38]  Biden is for...
[01:30:39]  Child sex changes, Trump opposed.
[01:30:41]  So that means that if he does something...
[01:30:43]  Let me answer your question.
[01:30:44]  Sorry.
[01:30:45]  I love you, I promise.
[01:30:45]  Now, do you want me to give you a one-hour essay thesis on everything Joe Biden did that I think was criminal, wrong, and he'd go to jail court?
[01:30:53]  I'm trying to avoid doing that by saying very simply, what Donald Trump represents morally, as for America, is much more in line with my worldview.
[01:31:02]  I can get into great detail on the Prisma scandal, if you want me to, or Tony Bob Yelinski, or Devin Archer.
[01:31:08]  We should have that debate, by the way.
[01:31:09]  I can get it all in action.
[01:31:09]  And we don't have that much time, because we're going to kick him off stage.
[01:31:10]  No, no, no, hold on.
[01:31:11]  He wants to hear the Qatar Turkey pipeline.
[01:31:13]  Okay, so in 2009, we don't want to go there.
[01:31:16]  But I absolutely could, for the sake of time, I will just say this.
[01:31:20]  Trump, in my opinion, universal tariffs doesn't make sense.
[01:31:25]  I am skeptical of it.
[01:31:26]  But I am largely biased in favor of Trump's moral worldview and hopeful that his administration has a plan that will bear out positively.
[01:31:34]  That being said, I'm not entirely sure universal tariffs do.
[01:31:38]  Selective tariffs I'm a big fan of because I believe, being a manufacturer of skateboards, I can tell you directly as an industry how free trade destroyed an industry and destroyed people's lives.
[01:31:48]  Okay, sure.
[01:31:49]  I guess you did respond.
[01:31:51]  You just reaffirmed what you said.
[01:31:52]  And now Joe Biden, with all the things he's done that I think are bad, Were he to enact universal tariffs, I do not trust him because I believe him to be an amoral crackpot, so I would not give him the benefit of the doubt.
[01:32:04]  So what you're saying is that you cannot acknowledge when something is bad just because the person might have a good intention?
[01:32:09]  I literally said the tariffs were done poorly and that I'm skeptical of them.
[01:32:12]  Okay.
[01:32:13]  No, but you said you support universal terrorists, but when Biden does it, you don't.
[01:32:16]  No, I do not support universal terrorists.
[01:32:18]  No, he said selective terrorists.
[01:32:18]  Okay, Cash, get off of it.
[01:32:19]  Okay, sorry.
[01:32:20]  My friend Alex and Max.
[01:32:22]  Thank you for coming up.
[01:32:23]  That was great.
[01:32:23]  Thank you, Cash.
[01:32:24]  Okay, hold on.
[01:32:24]  I love all of you.
[01:32:25]  You just got to read the Constitution better.
[01:32:27]  Much love.
[01:32:27]  Okay, thank you.
[01:32:29]  All right, now, is the transgender, do you have balls enough to come up here yet?
[01:32:33]  I know, well then come and tell us about it.
[01:32:36]  Come on, we only have a couple people.
[01:32:38]  Come on, you don't get to come here and not say something.
[01:32:41]  Oh my god.
[01:32:42]  You know, it's funny.
[01:32:43]  For not having a pussy, you sure act like one.
[01:32:48]  There's a certain amount of no's we'll respect.
[01:32:49]  I know.
[01:32:50]  Okay.

=== Why We Want More Legal Immigration (09:35) ===

[01:32:51]  Alright, alright.
[01:32:51]  Is that Tyler, right?
[01:32:53]  No, no.
[01:32:54]  What's your name in the hat?
[01:32:55]  T-Bone.
[01:32:56]  Did you submit, T-Bone?
[01:32:57]  No, no, no.
[01:32:57]  My boss did, though.
[01:32:58]  Okay, well then, let's go to the black dude.
[01:33:00]  Come on down, T-Bone.
[01:33:01]  We know this guy.
[01:33:02]  We know this guy.
[01:33:04]  I took a lot of notes.
[01:33:06]  I want to go to your point, Alex.
[01:33:10]  You were talking about Lake and Riley.
[01:33:13]  But also the entitlement programs.
[01:33:15]  We forgot about that.
[01:33:16]  And about all the money that was spent through all the illegal immigrants.
[01:33:20]  As soon as they came in, they had a bunch of...
[01:33:23]  I don't know if there's a bunch of cards with money on them, but I was at the airport, I believe it was last year, and I had somebody walk up to me, and he was an immigrant, and he talked to me in Spanish, and I knew a little bit of Spanish, but he gave me a bunch of cash and was like, hey, can you help me get to New York?
[01:33:44]  I just need you to buy a ticket.
[01:33:46]  And I'm like, I'm sorry, I can't do that.
[01:33:49]  But he had a wad of cash, and he had a backpack on his...
[01:33:52]  On his thing, and he had this app on his phone.
[01:33:55]  Now, do you guys remember about the...
[01:33:58]  CPP1?
[01:33:59]  Yeah, the CPP1 app, right.
[01:34:01]  Anyways, so to my point, you said to close the border, right?
[01:34:05]  That will solve all the issues.
[01:34:07]  But how do you...
[01:34:09]  Get with the president before that that sabotaged our own country and sabotaged our borders, allowing all these other people to come in.
[01:34:17]  And now you're telling the other president that, no, you have to follow some sort of standard.
[01:34:23]  Sit down.
[01:34:24]  Thank you.
[01:34:24]  Good job.
[01:34:25]  Great job.
[01:34:27]  People will use these examples.
[01:34:30]  First of all, let's be clear.
[01:34:31]  Some of these benefit programs are state-run.
[01:34:33]  Some of them are federally run.
[01:34:35]  One of the reasons why these people are given benefits at all is because oftentimes they don't have authorization to work.
[01:34:41]  When you're applying for asylum, you can get an EAD, but you have to wait a certain amount of time.
[01:34:46]  EAD is an employment authorization document.
[01:34:48]  You have to wait a certain amount of time before you can apply for EAD.
[01:34:51]  In the interim, you're literally making it illegal for this person.
[01:34:54]  20 million people?
[01:34:55]  What do you mean?
[01:34:56]  20 million people are applying for this?
[01:34:58]  So you're saying 20 million people crossed the border illegally and have entered into the country.
[01:35:02]  So I think that number is inflated.
[01:35:03]  It's not true.
[01:35:05]  Wait, wait, wait.
[01:35:06]  Let's say 10. 10, 15. It calculates border crossings that some of them are multiple times.
[01:35:13]  I just don't think it's a true estimate.
[01:35:15]  But not everybody is a beneficiary of those programs.
[01:35:19]  On net, once you give them EADs, these people are...
[01:35:21]  Putting money into our entitlements.
[01:35:23]  Literally, they're given tax numbers so that they can pay into things like Social Security and Medicare.
[01:35:31]  And they're never going to get those benefits from those.
[01:35:33]  So when you let them work, and I'm not saying that I agree with illegal immigration.
[01:35:37]  I don't agree with illegal immigration.
[01:35:39]  But it's just a function of the fact that otherwise these people are going to be like, I don't know, dying on the street.
[01:35:44]  No, remember when we came on to your show in Scrapjaw, and he was talking about how he went over to...
[01:35:50]  To Springfield, Ohio, right?
[01:35:52]  And there was a bunch of issues, not necessarily what we thought was the problem, which was people were eating dogs and cats, whatever.
[01:35:59]  But he was talking about how there were a bunch of immigrants that had money that were paying for cars that didn't have licenses, that didn't have insurance on these vehicles, and they were wrecking these vehicles.
[01:36:11]  Now, the problem was those vehicles, he would take them back to his, not to his shop, but like the yard where the, Where they tow, right?
[01:36:22]  But they couldn't take the vehicles.
[01:36:24]  But why?
[01:36:26]  Because of these issues.
[01:36:27]  So what exactly are we supposed to do when we have a president beforehand that caused all of these issues and now we have to pay for that?
[01:36:37]  But it's also a function of we don't have the capacity to solve that.
[01:36:40]  Like the manpower, the labor, and the resources to rectify all those problems.
[01:36:43]  But we do have the capacity for like a trillion dollars in tax cuts.
[01:36:46]  Whoa, whoa, whoa.
[01:36:47]  Those are two different things.
[01:36:50]  So to be clear, we say that we don't have the capacity, but these terrorists that you say you don't agree with, they've wiped out a ton of wealth in this country.
[01:36:59]  People are against them.
[01:37:01]  I feel like you're dodging the question entirely.
[01:37:06]  Let's assume that everything you're saying in terms of what the previous administration did was wrong, illegal, immoral, however you want to say it.
[01:37:13]  Why is illegal immigration wrong?
[01:37:14]  Can I ask you?
[01:37:16]  Well, can you do the same thing and do another country?
[01:37:19]  Can we go to another country and say...
[01:37:21]  No, you can't, but why is it wrong for someone to come into the country legally?
[01:37:25]  Oh, well, you see...
[01:37:27]  Well, exactly, because...
[01:37:28]  Hold on, hold on, guys, hold on, guys.
[01:37:29]  Well, we see why, right?
[01:37:31]  Look at what happened in Italy, all right?
[01:37:33]  You saw what happened on that island.
[01:37:34]  They got ransacked by a bunch of people.
[01:37:37]  There's only 7,500 people that lived there, and they were...
[01:37:40]  Tens of thousands that just overran that entire island.
[01:37:43]  Look at what's going on in the UK with all the stabbings.
[01:37:46]  Look at what's going on in Canada with all the issues that are going on.
[01:37:49]  So I'm hearing crime.
[01:37:52]  I'm hearing economic considerations.
[01:37:54]  I'm hearing fiscal impact.
[01:37:56]  So Trump, for instance, has said he wants immigration.
[01:37:59]  He wants more immigration.
[01:38:01]  He just wants it to be legal, right?
[01:38:03]  You've heard him say that.
[01:38:05]  And in this country, we have really low unemployment.
[01:38:08]  We have a record low unemployment even now.
[01:38:11]  The job support that we just got was better than expected.
[01:38:15]  So there's a labor shortage in this country in terms of the economic impact.
[01:38:19]  That's true.
[01:38:20]  Trump wants to bring in...
[01:38:22]  Trump has said that he wants to give green cards to people who complete university in this country.
[01:38:27]  So he's, at least as Trump says it, he's okay with immigration.
[01:38:30]  He just wants to be done.
[01:38:31]  Legally.
[01:38:32]  Exactly.
[01:38:33]  I just want to finish the point and then I'll let you guys go.
[01:38:36]  If your problem with immigration at bottom is that it's illegal and disorderly, then your problem is the illegality.
[01:38:43]  And therefore you should be just against illegal actions by the states!
[01:38:48]  So let me answer why illegal immigration should be illegal, right?
[01:38:53]  First...
[01:38:54]  That seems redundant, right?
[01:38:56]  Illegal immigration is when you come to this country outside of our laws for properly managing influx of new people.
[01:39:01]  The reason why we made it illegal, I can give you a real-world example, which is Sweden, for instance.
[01:39:06]  A lot of these countries are bringing a lot of immigrants in because of their low fertility rates.
[01:39:10]  It's going to cause labor shortages and economic crises.
[01:39:14]  In the 90s, Sweden brought in a bunch of, I believe it was Somali refugees.
[01:39:18]  These refugees were not properly integrated.
[01:39:21]  And this is not to say that they were forced to, it's that the country failed them.
[01:39:24]  What ended up happening was the refugees that came in, legally, were told, best of luck, welcome to Sweden.
[01:39:31]  So what did they do?
[01:39:32]  They formed enclaves.
[01:39:33]  Incidentally, not intentionally.
[01:39:35]  People want to live next to each other because it's familiar, it's easy, and if you're going to get a job and provide a service in your community, speaking the language makes it a lot easier.
[01:39:43]  After 20 years, this resulted in a very serious cultural problem.
[01:39:46]  The children of these refugees were considered Swedes, but in their home country, they were not considered Somali.
[01:39:55]  They had no home to go to, but the Swedish native population would not give them jobs or opportunity.
[01:40:01]  What happened?
[01:40:01]  They created areas of the country that were, I guess, skeptical of the outside authority.
[01:40:08]  This resulted in police getting attacked.
[01:40:10]  It resulted in inter-gang conflict.
[01:40:12]  There was a grenade thrown in, I believe it was 2017, onto a balcony that killed an eight-year-old British tourist.
[01:40:19]  The culture that grew in these communities...
[01:40:22]  Was entirely separate and isolated from the Swedish community because they were not properly brought in.
[01:40:26]  And so, why do we make it?
[01:40:29]  We want more legal immigration.
[01:40:31]  We want to make sure when people do come here legally, because we do have a labor shortage and a fertility crisis, they come in a timely and orderly manner where we can track where they're going, which communities can handle them and which cannot.
[01:40:43]  But when, let's say, even a million people come across the border unchecked and we don't know where they're going.
[01:40:49]  This can result in, I should call it, intercommunal violence.
[01:40:54]  So you run into conflicts like whether or not the story of cats being eaten is true.
[01:40:58]  You get the local population in Springfield, Ohio, were livid complaining about this.
[01:41:04]  Or you end up with, when I went to Sweden, one of the most fascinating things that I saw was local Swedish guy, who I think was in his 20s, told me he was terrified to go to these neighborhoods because he would be murdered.
[01:41:15]  And I thought that was nuts.
[01:41:17]  And I freely walked about these neighborhoods with no issue.
[01:41:20]  But there was still a fear of interracial and interreligious conflict because of a lack of assimilation and integration.
[01:41:27]  So for economic reasons, for cultural reasons, and to preserve the moral traditions of our country, our democratic values we do think are important, we say, guys, one at a time, right this way, please don't cheat.
[01:41:38]  Yeah, but the problem there is, so there's a reason we have these laws.
[01:41:42]  These laws are in place for some of the policy reasons that you've outlined.
[01:41:46]  And the problem is when you violate that...
[01:41:49]  You're both filing a law, but you're infringing on America's sovereignty, right?
[01:41:52]  America passed these laws through our methods, democratically, and it's an expression of American will that says, these amount of people can come here and no further, right?
[01:42:00]  You can apply for a green card under these conditions, but not the other conditions.
[01:42:05]  You can apply for...
[01:42:06]  You're talking about assimilation, though.
[01:42:07]  But aren't you arguing that we need to increase legal immigration, right?
[01:42:10]  His argument was...

=== Designating Immigrants: Legal vs. Illegal (06:31) ===

[01:42:12]  Here's all the problems of immigration.
[01:42:13]  You're like, well, if you only have a problem of illegal immigration, then we should just make more of it legal.
[01:42:18]  What I'm presenting to him is that Donald Trump has said that there are a lot of benefits to...
[01:42:25]  Legal immigration.
[01:42:26]  That legal immigration would benefit the economy.
[01:42:28]  That we do want these people, right?
[01:42:30]  And so I take it as a given that you agree with Trump on that and that you agree with his policy rationale on that.
[01:42:35]  And so it seems to me like the biggest problem that people have here is they're cutting the line.
[01:42:40]  They're doing something they're not supposed to be doing.
[01:42:41]  And then I'm paying taxes.
[01:42:42]  We have a two-tier justice system.
[01:42:43]  Okay, we only have time for one more guy.
[01:42:45]  So great job, T-Bone.
[01:42:46]  The guy in the suit.
[01:42:47]  I know the guy in the suit's been wanting to be here all night, okay?
[01:42:50]  So you got one minute, guys.
[01:42:52]  This is our last one.
[01:42:53]  I'm sorry we didn't get to you.
[01:42:54]  We only have a limited amount of time, unless you guys want to do one more after this.
[01:42:57]  But say your name and you got your one minute start.
[01:43:00]  I'm going to make some seemingly wild claims because this stuff hasn't been reported yet.
[01:43:20]  But as far as Venezuela's role, the World Social Forums on Migration were eight global conferences since 2005 that planned the weaponization of migration against the West.
[01:43:35]  Sponsored by Venezuela and Cuba, they essentially organized and networked the NGOs and groups that facilitated the migration So whether or not...
[01:43:46]  Immigrants are Venezuelan or not.
[01:43:48]  Since Venezuelan proxies, by the definition of the OAS and the U.S. Congress, helped facilitate the transfer of these immigrants, aren't all immigrants that came in as a result of a hybrid war effort, alien enemies and enemy combatants?
[01:44:05]  No, by definition.
[01:44:05]  Take a seat, sir!
[01:44:07]  I don't think that's right.
[01:44:08]  No.
[01:44:09]  The Alien Enemies Act allows you to designate a foreign country, and then only citizens...
[01:44:16]  No shit, Sherlock.
[01:44:18]  Bro, do you think I just said that invasion isn't in the statue?
[01:44:21]  What do you think I just said?
[01:44:23]  Literally, do you think I just said invasion, physical, and courage aren't in the statue?
[01:44:26]  Do you think I haven't read the statue?
[01:44:27]  No, no, yeah.
[01:44:28]  So what I said was...
[01:44:30]  What I said isn't contradicted by what you just said.
[01:44:34]  What I'm saying is that you have to designate a country.
[01:44:37]  Yes, it's invasion.
[01:44:40]  It does.
[01:44:40]  You have to designate a country.
[01:44:43]  And that country is, you know, you can deport, detain, and send out people of that country, citizens of that country, whether they're here legally or not.
[01:44:54]  You have to designate one.
[01:44:55]  So the proclamation that Trump issued only applies to Venezuelan nationals by definition.
[01:45:00]  And so, no, it doesn't apply for them.
[01:45:01]  I understand that.
[01:45:02]  What I'm arguing is that other immigrants...
[01:45:05]  By virtue of whether they're Venezuelan or not, are playing a part as weapons in Venezuela's hybrid war against the United States.
[01:45:14]  So then you'd have to designate every country as being part of the invasion?
[01:45:17]  Then so be it.
[01:45:19]  That's not what the current proclamation says.
[01:45:22]  So when Trump wants to say that the whole world is invading us and issue a proclamation to that effect, I'll address it.
[01:45:27]  I mean, I think the problem is that's so attenuated from the underlying...
[01:45:30]  100%.
[01:45:31]  Right, like...
[01:45:32]  And also it would swallow up every other part of immigration law.
[01:45:35]  Yes.
[01:45:36]  You could deport anyone here legally or illegally for any reason.
[01:45:39]  Right, right.
[01:45:39]  So I think that as a result, I think that...
[01:45:43]  I don't even know if we actually disagree that much.
[01:45:46]  No, get him out.
[01:45:46]  We probably disagree on whether or not there is a predatory diversion.
[01:45:49]  Deport everybody, even Americans, white people, Christians.
[01:45:51]  Everyone's got to go.
[01:45:52]  Nobody can stay.
[01:45:55]  So, if the Supreme Court were to uphold Trump's power under the Alien Enemies Act in this case, he could deport any Venezuelan, whether they're here legally or not.
[01:46:05]  So if they're here legally, you can get rid of them too.
[01:46:07]  The alien enemy is a very powerful ability for the administration to get rid of any alien.
[01:46:12]  And that means any non-citizen, really.
[01:46:14]  I do think that, just real quick, we can interpret however the powers that be interpret.
[01:46:21]  I mean, whoever's in charge interprets it the way they want, they enforce it the way they want.
[01:46:25]  And I really do feel like, whenever we have these debates, and I feel it's a lot on the culture war, I'm like...
[01:46:31]  We're sitting here acting like we don't understand these laws all the time, because maybe we don't.
[01:46:37]  Two different sides, three different sides, different political factions, all saying, no, the law means this, no, the law means that.
[01:46:42]  And it's really, at its core, my moral worldview would be this.
[01:46:46]  No, my moral worldview would be this.
[01:46:49]  And the law is less material to the argument.
[01:46:52]  Ouch.
[01:46:53]  Let's say that I seed the fact that, okay, it applies only to Venezuela.
[01:46:57]  Well, then all of their proxies, which, again, you can demonstrate that these groups that facilitated migration are...
[01:47:04]  Under U.S. and OAS definitions, proxies of foreign enemy states, shouldn't they be prosecuted and jailed under the Foreign Agent Registration Act?
[01:47:15]  They're acting as proxies of foreign governments and not stating it.
[01:47:19]  It's seditious conspiracy, RICO, since this is a hybrid war that carries all 12 dimensions of the hybrid war.
[01:47:25]  I shared some research beforehand, and I hope you look through it.
[01:47:27]  So if you have specific evidence that they're failing to register and engage in some kind of lobbying effort, Thank you.
[01:47:44]  is that Burisma would be considered a foreign principal under Farah, and that's one of the issues of the Hunter Biden situation.
[01:47:49]  And so I can see a cognizable case if you can show me the evidence that the specific individuals involved are failing to register as foreign agents.
[01:47:59]  Citizensintelligence.net has a downloadable PDF with 600 sources, about 150 pages long, and it's free along with network maps.
[01:48:07]  Can I ask about the moon necklace?
[01:48:08]  It's a pig tusk from Vanuatu.
[01:48:11]  Pigs are considered sacred there because this is like mining your own pig coin.
[01:48:15]  The more they curl, the more they're worth.
[01:48:18]  So they pull the top teeth so the pig tusks continue to curl.
[01:48:23]  And if you've got a pig with a triple-curled tusk, it costs somebody a pig.

=== Fourth Amendment Distinction (05:11) ===

[01:48:28]  Just to take a look at it.
[01:48:29]  There's a YouTube thing called Vanuatu's Piggy Bank that's like a 15-minute Australian special.
[01:48:35]  This guy is insane.
[01:48:36]  Okay, all right.
[01:48:36]  Get off stage.
[01:48:37]  Wait, wait, wait.
[01:48:38]  You're almost done.
[01:48:39]  The guy with the sunglasses in the back.
[01:48:40]  Well, you've been looking at me all night.
[01:48:42]  Come on down.
[01:48:43]  You do one minute.
[01:48:43]  I took the microphone already, though.
[01:48:44]  I know, but I'll just hand it to mine.
[01:48:46]  What are you just...
[01:48:46]  Come up here, okay?
[01:48:47]  You've been looking at me creepy.
[01:48:48]  You!
[01:48:49]  So one guy with the sunglasses.
[01:48:50]  Hurry up.
[01:48:51]  We've only got one minute.
[01:48:52]  I can already tell this guy's going to be weird.
[01:48:54]  Here, take my mic.
[01:48:56]  Here, take my mic.
[01:48:56]  What do you want to say?
[01:49:00]  I do have a quick question about constitutional rights.
[01:49:06]  I don't know.
[01:49:06]  I'm not a lawyer.
[01:49:07]  But if an illegal immigrant were to come here, would they have the constitutional right, like Second Amendment rights, to buy firearms?
[01:49:16]  I think they do, yeah.
[01:49:17]  The Constitution is very clear when it refers to persons and when it refers to citizens.
[01:49:21]  So we had this conversation.
[01:49:23]  I think you agreed with it.
[01:49:26]  I mean, and it could be an issue of how they've changed, like, when the 14th Amendment was made, it draws a distinction between the rights of persons and the rights of citizens, but I would also add that creates an abortion issue for you if you do accept that argument.
[01:49:37]  I'm not actually sure either of you are right about this.
[01:49:39]  So, for example, it says the security of, yeah, so the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
[01:49:44]  And that's people, and other parts of the Constitution, including the requirements for president, to run for president, the requirements for Congress, it refers to U.S. citizens, and in the Privileges or Immunities Clause of the 14th Amendment, which is what he was referencing.
[01:49:54]  It refers to...
[01:49:55]  Okay, I hear all that, right?
[01:49:57]  Clearly, under current law, we have a lot of restrictions on aliens and what they can say that would infringe the First Amendment if applied to citizens.
[01:50:04]  I think that's up to...
[01:50:04]  Well, I don't know about that.
[01:50:05]  Even espousing support for terrorism is sufficient to get you...
[01:50:08]  Well, that's being litigated right now with the Mahmoud Khalil case.
[01:50:10]  Right, but I think you're going to lose that one.
[01:50:12]  We'll see, we'll see.
[01:50:12]  But my point being that, like, if that's true, then I think you could say that an illegal alien could not be imprisoned for, you know, a crime that would not be a crime for an American citizen, but they could be deported.
[01:50:25]  Interesting.
[01:50:25]  Right?
[01:50:26]  Like, you could make it a condition of their residence.
[01:50:28]  Here, one of the big problems with having this carve out and saying that rights don't apply to illegal immigrants, then the rule, that exception as well as the rule.
[01:50:35]  And now all of a sudden you're going to be saying, and I hope you don't say it, is are you allowed to search without a warrant, an unreasonable search, let's say, of an illegal immigrants house because they don't have Fourth Amendment rights?
[01:50:44]  No, but that's a...
[01:50:46]  Right of the person against the government doing something to them, right?
[01:50:49]  In the same way that you can't imprison And the same reason that you can't imprison an illegal alien without due process, but you can deport them.
[01:50:58]  Yeah, but the Second Amendment has been interpreted by the Supreme Court to the delight of gun owners to be an individual right, right?
[01:51:04]  That's the big win in Heller, is it's not just a militia-based right.
[01:51:07]  It's an individual right to bear arms.
[01:51:10]  But so is the right to free speech.
[01:51:11]  And the right to free speech is as well.
[01:51:13]  And so if there's an individual rights component to the Fourth Amendment that protects you against unreasonable searches and seizures, surely, and it applies to people and persons, and there's a distinction, I don't think that the analogy doesn't work.
[01:51:29]  The distinction that we're always talking about in these First Amendment cases and in the Second Amendment cases is this criminal punishment versus removal.
[01:51:36]  And I don't think that is even in the ballpark of what's going on in the Fourth Amendment.
[01:51:42]  So do you think, but hang on a second, so we're not just talking about criminal punishment when it comes to immigration matters.
[01:51:47]  So the First Amendment, for example, applies to if you want to get a liquor license and you're a Trump supporter, imagine that the administration says something or the Democrat administration says, you don't get a liquor license if you support Trump.
[01:51:56]  Or you guys complain about the IRS, right?
[01:51:59]  So let's say that the IRS institutes a policy that says something like, we're only going to do IRS audits of Trump supporters, right?
[01:52:05]  Let's say they instituted that policy.
[01:52:07]  They didn't do that policy.
[01:52:08]  But let's assume...
[01:52:09]  Take the hypo, alright, bros?
[01:52:13]  Be less mad, alright?
[01:52:15]  Jesus Christ!
[01:52:18]  Alright, let him finish, guys.
[01:52:19]  We're about to end this.
[01:52:20]  Let Pisco finish.
[01:52:21]  That's a situation in which an investigation isn't a criminal punishment.
[01:52:25]  An investigation isn't a criminal punishment.
[01:52:27]  The denial of a license isn't a criminal punishment.
[01:52:29]  But these rights still have...
[01:52:30]  First Amendment, for example, still has purchase, even though it's not a criminal punishment.
[01:52:33]  The Second Amendment, there could be some gun legislation that doesn't apply in the criminal context.
[01:52:37]  It would still have purchase.
[01:52:38]  I want to just add, I do think I would like to hear a clear answer from the courts on this.
[01:52:43]  Does the people mean the body of citizens, or does it mean all persons?
[01:52:48]  Because when they did draft the Fourth Amendment, it draws a distinction between what makes someone a citizen and what rights a person has.
[01:52:55]  They're distinct.
[01:52:55]  I'm pretty sure non-citizens are protected under the Supreme Court precedent.
[01:52:59]  If it wasn't that way, you could, as a punishment, torture non-citizens.
[01:53:02]  I think that's right.
[01:53:04]  Oh, gosh.
[01:53:05]  Anyway.
[01:53:06]  All right, we're going to end on that, guys.
[01:53:08]  Thank you guys so much!
[01:53:10]  Give it up for yourselves!
[01:53:11]  This is the first pilot episode of the Culture War Live.
[01:53:15]  Give it up for Pisco.
[01:53:16]  I don't know if Raymond wants to say something.
[01:53:18]  Give it up for Will Chamberlain, our debaters, and, of course, Tim.
[01:53:21]  I'm here to say goodbye to everyone.
[01:53:23]  It was a beautiful show.
[01:53:24]  Shout out, Tim.

=== Fucking Rock and Rolling (00:56) ===

[01:53:26]  Fucking rock and rolling.
[01:53:27]  Culture War IRL.
[01:53:29]  Pisco, the gentleman from the left.
[01:53:31]  We came out of the show.
[01:53:32]  We appreciate you, sir.
[01:53:34]  Yeah, and he has a couple guys in the crowd, and one of the gentlemen came up there, Mr. Cashel.
[01:53:38]  That's fucking rock and rolling.
[01:53:39]  We love that.
[01:53:40]  Next time, we want more lefties.
[01:53:42]  If you're watching, feel free to come in.
[01:53:45]  It's a good time.
[01:53:46]  Absolutely.
[01:53:46]  The better the baits, the better, right?
[01:53:48]  Yes, everybody.
[01:53:49]  Thank you all so much for being here.
[01:53:51]  Share the show with everyone, you know.
[01:53:53]  Smash the like button.
[01:53:54]  Subscribe.
[01:53:55]  You can follow me on Axe and Instagram at TimCast.
[01:53:57]  Do you guys want a quick shout-outs for who you are when they can find you?
[01:54:01]  Primetime99AlexStein, Pimp on a Blamp on Twitter, Axe, YouTube.
[01:54:04]  Follow PrimetimeWithAlexStein.
[01:54:06]  Will Chamberlain, at Will Chamberlain on Twitter, and the Article 3 Project, Article3Project.org.
[01:54:12]  PiscoLiddy on Twitter, and Pisco's Hour on YouTube.
[01:54:16]  This was fucking awesome.
[01:54:18]  Dude, it was good time.
[01:54:20]  Thank you, guys.