CSPAN - Washington Journal 03/24/2026
Aired: 2026-03-24
Duration: 03:00:59


=== Government Shutdown and ICE Deployment (03:59) ===

[00:00:00]  Democracy unfiltered every day on the C-SPAN networks.
[00:00:04]  Coming up on Washington Journal this morning, along with your calls and comments live, former Trump Economic Advisor Stephen Moore, co-founder of the group Committee to Unleash Prosperity on President Trump's handling of the economy and the impact U.S. actions against Iran are having on Americans.
[00:00:21]  And then the latest developments in the Iran War with Council on Foreign Relations Senior Fellow James Lindsay.
[00:00:26]  Washington Journal is next.
[00:00:28]  Join the conversation.
[00:00:39]  This is the Washington Journal for March 24th.
[00:00:42]  As the partial government shutdown and homeland security continues.
[00:00:45]  Much of the attention of it pointed at the work of the Transportation Safety Administration, or TSA.
[00:00:51]  Workers who have not gotten paid are now calling out.
[00:00:54]  This has resulted in longer lines at some of the nation's airports, and ICE agents are now being deployed to assist.
[00:01:00]  On Capitol Hill, the blame game continues, with Republicans saying Democrats are holding up the works over ICE immigration enforcement practices.
[00:01:07]  Democrats are also taking issue with tying efforts to fund DHS funding with passing the Save America Act.
[00:01:13]  When it comes to the continued partial government shutdown at Homeland Security, which party do you blame for it?
[00:01:21]  Here's how you can let us know.
[00:01:22]  Democrats 202748-8000.
[00:01:25]  Republicans 202-748-8001.
[00:01:28]  And Independents 202-748-8002.
[00:01:33]  If you've recently been to the airport to travel and you want to let us know about your experiences with that, give us a call.
[00:01:39]  202-748-8003 is where you can put that.
[00:01:43]  And you can also use that same line to text us as well as post on our social media sites.
[00:01:47]  That's facebook.com slash C-SPAN and on X at C-SPANWJ.
[00:01:53]  The Hill talks about the TSA portion of the partial government shutdown, particularly when it comes to wait times at some of the nation's airports.
[00:02:02]  The Hill reporting that many of those largest ones reported higher call-out rates this past Sunday.
[00:02:09]  42.3% at Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport, 41.5% at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, 39.1% at George Bush Intercontinental Airport in Houston, 38% at Baltimore, Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport, 37.4% at John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York, and at Pittsburgh International Airport, 24.2% and 21.7% at LaGuardia Airport in New York.
[00:02:36]  And those are the call-out portions when it comes to those TSA workers.
[00:02:41]  When it comes to ICE being deployed, which you've seen in the headlines, the Washington Post takes a look at some of the places where they'll be focused.
[00:02:48]  Representatives for airports, the Washington Post reports, in Atlanta, Cleveland, Newark, New Orleans, New York, Fort Myers, Florida, and San Juan, Puerto Rico in Phoenix confirmed that ICE officers would be on site Monday at the George Bush Intercontinental Airport and the William Hobby Airport, both in Houston, had some officers.
[00:03:07]  And Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson said about 75 ICE personnel were at O'Hare International Airport saying the officers would monitor exit lanes, make passenger announcements, and assist with managing lines.
[00:03:19]  That's the ICE portion.
[00:03:20]  When it comes to getting the government reopen, or at least this partial government shutdown done, the president himself rejecting recent offers to restore funding to partial to ICE.
[00:03:32]  This is the headline from the Wall Street Journal this morning.
[00:03:36]  The president rejecting those exit ramps and pass over TSA spending.
[00:03:40]  He elaborated on some of these themes during a visit to Memphis, Tennessee yesterday and spoke about the partial government shutdown.
[00:03:46]  Here's a portion of what he had to say.
[00:03:49]  And I'm suggesting strongly to the Republican Party, don't make any deal on anything.
[00:03:55]  The most important thing we can have is what's called the Save America Act.

=== President Rejects Funding Offers (14:37) ===

[00:03:59]  Don't make any deal on anything unless you include voter ID, and you have to be a citizen to vote.
[00:04:07]  You have to show citizenship to vote.
[00:04:09]  Very easy to do.
[00:04:11]  It's very insulting when they say people can't do it because they don't know how to do it.
[00:04:15]  Anybody that can't do it, I think it's a very insulting thing to say.
[00:04:19]  The Democrats are fully to blame with the struggle the great American public is going through at the airports.
[00:04:26]  They're going through a big struggle right now, and we just put ICE in charge, and they're helping TSA, the agents, and they're working together so far very well.
[00:04:37]  I actually suggested that in the airports they take off their masks, and they did that.
[00:04:42]  In the airports, that is like, I'm a big believer in the mask because we have, you know, Biden allowed hundreds of thousands of killers into our country.
[00:04:51]  We're rapidly getting them out, by the way.
[00:04:54]  But they would go after these people if they knew exactly who they were.
[00:05:00]  But in the airports, it's different.
[00:05:02]  I didn't love the look in the airport as you get off the plane.
[00:05:05]  So I made a request and they agreed to it.
[00:05:08]  So they're not going to be doing that.
[00:05:10]  We would also bring out, if we don't have enough, we will bring out the National Guard where we need it to help out at the airports.
[00:05:18]  But we're not going to let this happen.
[00:05:20]  It's extortion by the Democrats.
[00:05:22]  They're holding up money that's already been approved.
[00:05:25]  And now they're willing to go $5 billion reduction in ICE in order to get the approval on a deal that they approved, the Great Big Beautiful deal, which is the biggest tax cut in history, the biggest regulation cut in history.
[00:05:39]  They want to basically renegotiate a deal that they already approved.
[00:05:43]  And they're doing it for largely for a criminal element.
[00:05:48]  So also the Democrats are putting our country at great risk during this period of time, a period that they call a war.
[00:05:56]  They call it a war.
[00:05:57]  We call it a military operation.
[00:06:00]  Some of the President's comments from Memphis yesterday about the partial government shutdown.
[00:06:04]  He referencing the Transportation Safety Administration.
[00:06:08]  We want to ask you about what you think of which party is to blame for this continued shutdown.
[00:06:13]  Again, the numbers 202-748-8,000 for Democrats, Republicans, 202-748-8001, and Independents 202-748-8002.
[00:06:22]  If you are a recent airport traveler, give us your thoughts at 202-748-8003.
[00:06:28]  And you can use that same line to text us those thoughts as well.
[00:06:32]  But when it comes to the party to blame, Mustafa in Philadelphia, Republican line, you're up first.
[00:06:37]  Which party do you think?
[00:06:41]  So I would say that the DHS shutdown was like, you know, not necessary because, you know, I've been paying attention.
[00:06:53]  Mustafa, go ahead.
[00:06:55]  Is my voice clear?
[00:06:57]  Yeah, go ahead.
[00:06:57]  Which party do you think is to blame?
[00:07:00]  I believe it's the illegal aliens who are to blame for this shutdown.
[00:07:07]  Okay, let's go to Barbara.
[00:07:09]  Barbara in Georgia, Democrats line.
[00:07:10]  You're next up.
[00:07:12]  It's definitely the Republicans because they won't negotiate with the Democrats at all, just like this war.
[00:07:21]  Now we're in a war.
[00:07:23]  Why?
[00:07:24]  Because that's what President Trump wanted.
[00:07:28]  And think about America going bankrupt because he's well on his way to us going bank.
[00:07:36]  Well, sticking to the shutdown, why do you think it's what portions do you think are important to negotiate and why do you think that's important?
[00:07:44]  Well, the shutdown, I hope they continue to shut it down because The Republicans who won't negotiate with them.
[00:07:56]  I believe they could work together a lot better than what they're doing right now.
[00:08:01]  Trump don't want to work with anybody except the Republicans.
[00:08:06]  If you're a Republican, yes, he'll work with you.
[00:08:09]  But if you're a Democrat, no, he's not going to, he is not going to negotiate with the Democrats.
[00:08:16]  Okay.
[00:08:17]  William in Ohio, Independent Line on who's the blame when it comes to this partial shutdown.
[00:08:22]  Go ahead.
[00:08:23]  Good morning, Bedro.
[00:08:25]  I think the biggest blame goes on Trump and the Republican Party.
[00:08:29]  Mainly Trump, though.
[00:08:30]  The man's an idiot all the way.
[00:08:32]  I mean, he's the one who won't make a deal with nobody for nothing.
[00:08:37]  Well, when it comes specifically to the shutdown, why do you think he's to blame?
[00:08:41]  Because of everything he does.
[00:08:43]  Now he wants to vote the right act and everything else before he'll pass anything, he says.
[00:08:47]  Come on, he's trying to take voting rights away from everybody.
[00:08:51]  The man's an idiot, I swear.
[00:08:53]  He's making me mad all the time.
[00:08:55]  The man just ain't fit to be president.
[00:08:57]  You know, if he wants to start something, he's going to start it.
[00:09:00]  You know, he is.
[00:09:01]  But I'm still saying the Republican Party, if they were, wouldn't be a bunch of Capons.
[00:09:07]  They'd had some courage to stand up to that man and pass a bill.
[00:09:11]  Okay.
[00:09:11]  Thank you very much.
[00:09:12]  Okay, Roy is next, and Roy joins us from California, Democrats line.
[00:09:15]  Hello.
[00:09:19]  Roy in California, hello.
[00:09:24]  One more time for Roy in California.
[00:09:28]  Okay, you've heard some of those comments.
[00:09:31]  You can make yours as well when it comes to this partial government shutdown.
[00:09:34]  Who do you think is the blame?
[00:09:35]  202, 7488,000 for Democrats, 202-748,001 for Republicans, and Independents 202-748-8002.
[00:09:45]  Texas at 202-748-8003.
[00:09:47]  You can use that same number, by the way.
[00:09:49]  If you've recently been to the airport and you want to give about your experiences going through TSA lines, perhaps if you've seen ICE officers and the like, you can let us know on that line as well.
[00:09:59]  As you are calling in, we will get a perspective from TSA joining us now.
[00:10:04]  Johnny Jones of the American Federation of Government Employees.
[00:10:08]  He's with TSA Council 100, serves as their secretary treasurer.
[00:10:12]  Mr. Jones, good morning.
[00:10:15]  Thank you for having us or having me, sir.
[00:10:17]  It's okay.
[00:10:18]  Give us the perspective of TSA.
[00:10:19]  How many people have been affected now?
[00:10:22]  And how many people are now calling in and out of work because of the shutdown?
[00:10:27]  Well, according to some of the data that was released, it appears about anywhere between 10 and 15% as a whole aggregate.
[00:10:36]  But some airports, as you're aware, are much higher.
[00:10:41]  So like, for instance, the other day, MSY was about 40%.
[00:10:47]  Houston was 40%.
[00:10:48]  So there's definitely a lot of people.
[00:10:49]  I just want to make sure people understand what a callout is.
[00:10:53]  They're not calling out because they don't want to come to work.
[00:10:55]  They're calling out because they don't have any more money.
[00:10:58]  Since the vast majority of our employees work paycheck to paycheck, I'm willing to bet out of the 45,000 TSA officers that are in the agency, probably $44,000 have $0 in their bank account.
[00:11:14]  When it comes to the money factor, in a general sense, how much does a TSA worker make and relate that to how this impacts them when they're not getting paid?
[00:11:23]  Let's just say a TSO that's been working at the TSA for three years.
[00:11:29]  Their average salary is in the low 60s, okay?
[00:11:34]  But with that being said, they're just coming from 40s.
[00:11:37]  Like they went from 40 to 50 to 60.
[00:11:40]  And, you know, most people, when they come into a new job, they're, you know, they're debt laden.
[00:11:45]  They're trying to buy a car, trying to buy a house.
[00:11:47]  So, people are trying to build a future when they come to work for any place, more specifically when you come to the TSA or any other federal sector job.
[00:11:56]  You know, they care deeply about their country and they took an oath to uphold the Constitution.
[00:12:00]  But also, you know, they want to live the real American dream, which is, you know, having a family and being able to take care of your family.
[00:12:07]  But right now, we're not being paid and we are incurring extensive levels of debt on the behalf of the shutdown that's going on.
[00:12:18]  With the callouts as you describe them, is this all, are these being done by the individuals?
[00:12:24]  Is this coming from the top or is this an organized effort?
[00:12:28]  How would you characterize that?
[00:12:30]  Well, this is definitely not an organized effort.
[00:12:32]  All we care about is getting paid.
[00:12:34]  Okay.
[00:12:35]  The issue is that when you look at the economics and the fact that we've been through three government shutdowns in the last five months and at 50%, just think about this.
[00:12:46]  This fiscal year, our government has been in a shutdown status.
[00:12:49]  It's approaching 50%.
[00:12:51]  So people have burned through the reserves.
[00:12:53]  They borrowed all the money they can borrow.
[00:12:55]  They can no longer just come to work.
[00:12:57]  It's not organized by any stretch of the imagination.
[00:13:01]  It is this raw fact that people have no liquid capital.
[00:13:06]  It's actually insulting sometimes, not with you, but when management or other people are like, why can't you come to work?
[00:13:13]  It's pretty obvious.
[00:13:14]  90%, almost every American lives paycheck to paycheck ask themselves, how long could they come to work without being paid?
[00:13:23]  What are others telling you, or perhaps you're yourself, if you want, what are they doing to compensate for not getting paid?
[00:13:29]  What kind of things are they doing to make ends meet?
[00:13:31]  We are selling things at a rapid rate.
[00:13:34]  I had just personally recovered my emergency savings and all those things the first week of February before this started.
[00:13:42]  And, you know, I'm not prepared to go back to those things again.
[00:13:46]  You know, but I'm going to do it because I'm the leader of the 45,000 employees that elected me to do this position.
[00:13:51]  And I always, you know, one thing people have to, you have to set aside your personal politics when you represent the employees, which is what I do and what AFG does.
[00:14:01]  So when you get down to it, the employees need, they need, first of all, they need their back pay, but they also need, I was talking to one of my colleagues yesterday.
[00:14:11]  She pays $75 a day in late fees to her apartment complex.
[00:14:16]  So while the shutdown is going on, she's occurred over $2,500 in late fees to the apartment complex that she has to pay even after the shutdown's over.
[00:14:26]  So not only does the TSA need to, you know, when it gets open, these federal workers, our TSA officers need to be heavily compensated with like, you know, the $10,000 bonuses that went to 2%.
[00:14:38]  Those $10,000 bonuses need to go to 100% because everybody has been impacted in some which, way, or form.
[00:14:45]  John Jones, what's your understanding of ICE agents being brought in to assist?
[00:14:50]  What are they doing?
[00:14:51]  What do you think about them coming alongside those that you work with?
[00:14:55]  Well, first of all, I have high respect for, you know, for other parts of our department.
[00:15:01]  We work together all the time.
[00:15:02]  You know, this isn't like, you know, if you're in a southern border, you know, a lot of times there's Border Patrol or ICE actually working at the airport.
[00:15:10]  So the difference is now is that the optics appear the American people may not like the optics of what's happening.
[00:15:20]  Based on the feedback I've received yesterday on, you know, several people reaching out and, you know, this general inquiries and people asking me, hey, is there ICE here?
[00:15:30]  Like literally when I was walking through the airport, there was a lot of apprehension about people coming to the airport.
[00:15:39]  And at the airport I work at, which is DFW, There was like a couple of restaurants didn't open because some of the workers that worked there didn't even come into work because they were afraid ICE was going to be there.
[00:15:53]  If I understand it correctly, your next pay period is Friday.
[00:15:57]  Let's say the shutdown ended tomorrow.
[00:16:00]  Based on past experience, how long would it take to receive back pay?
[00:16:05]  It took last time the first compensation took about 14 days.
[00:16:09]  The vast majority were paid, were back paid fully within 30 days.
[00:16:15]  And actually, there was a small segment of the employees that actually did not get fully back paid until January.
[00:16:22]  We've been asking folks to comment on which party gets the blame for all of this.
[00:16:28]  How would you answer that question?
[00:16:29]  And on top of that, what's your message to Washington about what's going on?
[00:16:33]  Well, first and foremost is that this is a breakdown of the political system.
[00:16:38]  When you have parties that serve, you have political leaders that are elected by their constituents, and then they serve parties, not the people.
[00:16:49]  And what happens is you have this breakdown.
[00:16:51]  And then at another side, it's just a mega breakdown.
[00:16:57]  And you know what?
[00:16:58]  I just encourage the American people to go out and vote in this November because you know what?
[00:17:06]  You can't fix it.
[00:17:08]  Now you see it's broken.
[00:17:09]  You have an opportunity to go out and elect new representatives for those who actually serve the people.
[00:17:15]  And believe me, if I wasn't a federal employee right now, you would see my name on a ballot, Silberry running for the U.S. House.
[00:17:24]  And so one more question then.
[00:17:25]  What's your message to those who rely on what you do, the people who go on flights every day?
[00:17:30]  What's the message to them?
[00:17:32]  My message to them is no doubt, understand that the TSA officers took an oath to uphold the Constitution, just like those same folks in Congress.
[00:17:42]  And we take our oaths very seriously, and I'm sure they do too.
[00:17:45]  But unfortunately, their bank accounts have got money and we do not.
[00:17:49]  Okay.
[00:17:50]  And our employees, like I said, the vast majority, unless they have a bank that actually gives them 80% of their money, they are out of money.
[00:17:57]  We not only need our back pay, but we need additional compensation and we need all of our leave that anything we had to take needs to be paid 100%.
[00:18:07]  No questions asked because this is not our fault.
[00:18:09]  We did not ask to get be put in this situation.
[00:18:12]  We were put here because of partisan politics on either side of the aisle.
[00:18:16]  Johnny Jones with the American Federation of Government Employees, TSA Council 100.
[00:18:20]  He serves as the Secretary Treasurer, giving us the perspective of TSA during this partial government shutdown.
[00:18:25]  Mr. Jones, thank you so much for your time.
[00:18:27]  Thank you for having me.
[00:18:29]  Again, we're asking you about which party gets the blame when it comes to this partial government shutdown.
[00:18:34]  202-748-8,000 for Democrats.

=== Airport Lines and Back Pay Demands (15:35) ===

[00:18:37]  Republicans, 2027 for 8-8,001.
[00:18:40]  Independents, 2027 for 88,002.
[00:18:43]  Independent Line.
[00:18:45]  This is from Illinois.
[00:18:46]  Doug, hello.
[00:18:47]  Thanks for waiting.
[00:18:48]  Go ahead.
[00:18:49]  Hello, Pedro.
[00:18:50]  How are you?
[00:18:51]  And how's America doing today?
[00:18:52]  I see that we have our PDS in full-blown, you know, as always going on, like the lady from Georgia stating, oh, you know, Republicans don't want to negotiate.
[00:19:04]  Well, definitely it's the Democrats because I'll tell you why.
[00:19:08]  There's two major things here, and I'm only going to stick with two.
[00:19:12]  Number one, the Republicans did agree with the Democrats to go along with the first five things that they wanted was the badges, name badges.
[00:19:22]  They wanted the cameras.
[00:19:23]  They wanted this.
[00:19:24]  Republicans said, sure, okay.
[00:19:26]  You know, it took a while.
[00:19:27]  It took a few weeks.
[00:19:28]  You know, they said, okay.
[00:19:29]  Well, guess what?
[00:19:30]  Now they just threw a bunch of more other things on top of it.
[00:19:34]  They just want more and more and more.
[00:19:37]  And you know what?
[00:19:38]  We have 53,000 members of the Coast Guard along with these poor TSA members.
[00:19:43]  You know, these poor people, man, they got families.
[00:19:45]  They can't put food on the table.
[00:19:47]  You know, come on, man.
[00:19:48]  I mean, this is just ridiculous.
[00:19:50]  I mean, the way these politicians, these Democrat politicians are playing these games, and it's not the game.
[00:19:57]  I mean, let's put country over party, man.
[00:19:59]  Come on.
[00:20:00]  Well, Doug, let me ask you a question.
[00:20:01]  Now, the president wants to add Save America Act to anything regarding the reopening of the DHS.
[00:20:07]  What do you think about that add-on?
[00:20:10]  Well, I'll tell you what.
[00:20:11]  I'll tell you what.
[00:20:12]  When I voted in the primaries just recently, you know, I walked up and I said, the first thing come out of my mouth, I said, hey, I got two forms of photo ID.
[00:20:22]  And she kind of laughed at me.
[00:20:23]  Well, we don't need that.
[00:20:24]  And I said, you know what?
[00:20:25]  I think we do.
[00:20:27]  And here's the thing.
[00:20:28]  The state I live in, it's just, it's totally sanctuary.
[00:20:32]  And I mean, it's just, it's not serious.
[00:20:34]  You know, we got this Safety Act.
[00:20:36]  You know, speaking of safety stuff, okay, you know, it's where they release criminals without bond, and most of them don't show up for court.
[00:20:43]  Well, I'm not going to go into that, but Democrats thought it would work just fine.
[00:20:47]  Well, it's not.
[00:20:48]  And now they're maybe having second thoughts about it.
[00:20:51]  Coming back to the voter ID.
[00:20:53]  We got your thoughts.
[00:20:55]  Let's go on and thank you for sharing them.
[00:20:56]  Let's go, Felicia in Iowa, Democrats line.
[00:20:59]  Hello.
[00:20:59]  You're next up on who's to blame for the shutdown or the DHS.
[00:21:04]  The partial shutdown, just to be clear.
[00:21:06]  Okay, good morning, Susan.
[00:21:09]  So, yeah, what we have going on is a partial shutdown because they've already given the beautiful bill gave DHS billions of dollars already.
[00:21:24]  So all they're asking for now, the Democrats are asking to pay the TSA workers, pay these people.
[00:21:32]  They go to work every day.
[00:21:34]  Everybody who starts calling in, you just imagine if you went to work for two weeks and you're not getting paid, how do you pay your bills?
[00:21:43]  How do you pay for child care?
[00:21:45]  How do you put gas in your car?
[00:21:49]  Felicia in Iowa, let's go to Teresa in Tennessee, Republican line.
[00:21:55]  Hi, Teresa.
[00:21:57]  Good morning.
[00:21:58]  The government has been shut down three times in six months, and not one of those shutdowns was caused by the Republicans.
[00:22:06]  It was the Democrats who shut it down three times.
[00:22:10]  So I don't see how anybody can question whose fault it is for this shutdown.
[00:22:15]  It's the Democrats.
[00:22:16]  In the first shutdown, they wouldn't pay the military.
[00:22:19]  Second shutdown, they wouldn't pay.
[00:22:21]  I mean, the first shutdown, they wouldn't pay food stamps.
[00:22:24]  Now they're not paying TSA, FEMA.
[00:22:27]  You know, I don't understand how anybody even questions it.
[00:22:33]  They're wanting to fix it now because they're finally catching the blame.
[00:22:37]  The American people are blaming the Democrats for shutting this government down.
[00:22:41]  And one thing about the ICE agents, it was a two-hour wait at Atlanta Hartsfield Airport before the ICE agents come in.
[00:22:50]  And now it's a 40-minute wait.
[00:22:52]  Why all the drama and hoopla about ICE coming in when all they did was actually fix it?
[00:22:57]  Was that 40-minute wait your experience personally?
[00:23:01]  That's what they reported this morning: 40 minutes for Hartsfield Atlanta Airport.
[00:23:06]  And you sure don't see the lines.
[00:23:08]  You don't see the news coverage of the lines everywhere now because they're gone.
[00:23:15]  Atlanta Hartsfield Airport is 40 minutes, is what CNN reported this morning.
[00:23:21]  Okay.
[00:23:21]  Again, we've been asking folks to give your thoughts on who's to blame for this partial government shutdown at the Department of Homeland Security.
[00:23:28]  The lines are there.
[00:23:29]  Party lines are the ones we usually use.
[00:23:32]  That fourth line as the callers, that if you've been to an airport recently and you want to give your perspective on what the line experience was for you, particularly what flight what you've heard about at TSA 2027-8003.
[00:23:47]  You can also post on our social media sites if you want to share your thoughts there amongst others who watch the program.
[00:23:52]  Text us by using that same number, too, 202-748-8003.
[00:23:56]  George joins us from La Plata, Maryland, Independent Line.
[00:24:00]  Hi.
[00:24:01]  Hi, Pedro.
[00:24:02]  Thanks for taking my call.
[00:24:03]  I'm a big fan of C-SPAN.
[00:24:05]  I try to call in every 30 days because I've got so much on my mind, so much frustration.
[00:24:11]  To me, I mean, there's no doubt that it's the Republicans that are at fault.
[00:24:16]  I mean, they've got the White House, they've got Congress, they've got the Senate.
[00:24:21]  I think all of the stuff that Trump does is a distraction from the fact that he is under Putin's thumb because of the effect that Putin had on his election.
[00:24:33]  Let's go back to the topic at hand, specifically to the shutdown.
[00:24:36]  Elaborate on why you think it's the Republicans' fault.
[00:24:39]  Well, as I said, they're in charge now.
[00:24:43]  This morning, Kennedy said, or maybe it was last night, but Kennedy said that they had a deal and Trump nixed it.
[00:24:51]  I don't know where else you can point the finger.
[00:24:54]  And because of all the anti the for the people who are affected by this shutdown, do you think Trump cares about that?
[00:25:05]  Or the Republicans, just like Johnny Jones, I mean, he was very eloquent in his responses and his ideas of what it's going to take.
[00:25:16]  They're getting their paychecks, but the TSA workers, no.
[00:25:20]  And DHS or ICE, what is ICE going to do in these airports?
[00:25:25]  If you look at the videos, they're walking around with no responsibilities, basically, except to turn around 360 degrees and try to make sure that there's no anybody losing it.
[00:25:42]  Because the frustration that's going to happen in these airports and not only the airports, but whatever other lines are created by these distractions.
[00:25:52]  Whether it's changing, taking these statues and putting them back up.
[00:25:57]  And believe me, I'm no fan of tearing down statues or changing names of military bases.
[00:26:02]  And I don't mean to get off the subject, but they're all distractions.
[00:26:07]  The bottom line is Ukraine could have ended up.
[00:26:10]  Okay.
[00:26:11]  Okay.
[00:26:11]  Yep.
[00:26:12]  Got your thought.
[00:26:12]  We'll leave it there.
[00:26:13]  One of the people making comments was New Jersey Senator, Democratic Senator Corey Booker, traveled to Newark International Airport, talked about the situation there involving TSA and ICE agents at security checkpoints.
[00:26:27]  Here are some of his comments from yesterday.
[00:26:29]  So I'm sorry.
[00:26:30]  This is not about TSA.
[00:26:31]  This is not about our airports.
[00:26:33]  This is about a reckless, out-of-control ICE that he's now brought into our airports.
[00:26:38]  Donald Trump has caused the TSA lines, and now he's doubling down and making it worse by bringing a reckless, armed, out-of-control agency into our airports.
[00:26:48]  This is insanity.
[00:26:50]  And American people have to join together in a chorus of condemnation saying, stop causing so much pain in America.
[00:26:59]  Live pictures from the airport in Houston when it comes to the activity there of TSA as part of the discussion that we're having about the partial government shutdown, particularly as it affects TSA workers, which you heard the comments of Johnny Jones earlier when it comes to ICE, the Washington Post adding that passengers expressing bewilderment said the officers, the ICE officers, did not appear to be doing much, though they were noticeable in ICE branded police fests.
[00:27:27]  Officers did not wear face masks, a practice that has garnered mounting public criticism during immigration raids.
[00:27:33]  After President Donald Trump posted on social media that they should not do so at the airports at Luis Munoz, Marin International Airport in San Juan, Puerto Rico.
[00:27:42]  A three hours long security line snake through two terminals all the way outside, where airport staffers had to set up large white tents to protect travelers from the rain and heat.
[00:27:51]  It talks about some of the personal experiences there when it comes to ICE and what they're doing.
[00:27:55]  Let's hear from Roy, Roy in California, Democrats line.
[00:27:59]  Hello.
[00:28:00]  Hello.
[00:28:01]  Hi.
[00:28:01]  I got cut off earlier.
[00:28:03]  Anyway, I blame the Republicans and Donald Trump.
[00:28:07]  There was a bipartisan deal that came along, I believe it was yesterday.
[00:28:13]  And his saying was: we're going to not make any deals with the Democrats.
[00:28:20]  If it's bipartisan, both parties agree.
[00:28:24]  He's not looking out for the workers.
[00:28:26]  He wants a campaign issue.
[00:28:29]  He did that before during the election when they struck a deal about the border.
[00:28:35]  You know, he has no interest for the American people.
[00:28:40]  And I don't understand how these MAGA nuts, excuse my language, vote for this guy and support him.
[00:28:51]  He's not interested in those workers.
[00:28:53]  He wants to maintain his seat in the presidency because, like you said, they're going to impeach him.
[00:29:00]  And this time it will stick.
[00:29:03]  Thank you.
[00:29:04]  Sean, up next.
[00:29:05]  Sean in Arizona, Republican line.
[00:29:07]  Go ahead.
[00:29:09]  Yeah, I think it's the Democrats' fault because number one, they're the ones that want to keep on funding the illegal migrants that's still in this country for the partial shutdown.
[00:29:24]  Okay, I've seen airport lines, agents are trying to help get people through.
[00:29:34]  It could take a long time for people to get through to the airlines.
[00:29:40]  But I believe it's the Democrats' fault for this government, partial government shutdown, because they're the ones that just want everything, their way only for the government shutdown.
[00:29:56]  Sean in Arizona, there, youGov, the website, did a snap poll of a portion of this topic saying, Do you support or oppose agents with immigration and customs enforcement, ICE being assigned to U.S. airport to help TSA agents?
[00:30:12]  For those respondents, 26% of those saying they strongly support that action, with 17% saying they somewhat support.
[00:30:21]  10% saying they strongly oppose, 31% saying somewhat oppose, I'm sorry, strongly oppose, 31%.
[00:30:30]  And those who are not sure, 16%.
[00:30:33]  A snap poll done by YouGov when it comes to ICE at TSA.
[00:30:38]  John in New York, Independent line.
[00:30:41]  Hello.
[00:30:42]  How are we doing today?
[00:30:45]  It's pretty simple.
[00:30:47]  The Republicans are to blame.
[00:30:49]  They control everything.
[00:30:51]  It's all math.
[00:30:53]  They have the numbers and they can't do it.
[00:30:58]  Democrats want more ICE enforcement added.
[00:31:01]  Republicans now want Save America Act, at least the president.
[00:31:04]  Does that complicate things on either side?
[00:31:08]  The Save America Act is a joke.
[00:31:11]  It's not Save America.
[00:31:13]  And it's going to hurt people that want to vote, like women that don't have their birth certificate.
[00:31:21]  Their name is, you know, their maiden name.
[00:31:24]  That's a problem.
[00:31:25]  How are they going to get that change?
[00:31:27]  They got to find it.
[00:31:28]  It costs money.
[00:31:30]  Not everybody has a lot of money.
[00:31:33]  John there in New York giving his thoughts.
[00:31:36]  Here's how you can add yours.
[00:31:37]  Democrats 202-748-8000.
[00:31:39]  Republicans 202-748-8001.
[00:31:42]  Independents 202-748-8,000 to those expressing displeasure with the state of the partial shutdown.
[00:31:49]  Yesterday on the Senate floor, the minority leader of the Senate, Chuck Schumer.
[00:31:54]  We tried to move forward this weekend to pay these workers, but Republicans have blocked pay for TSA workers in a roll call vote where they all voted no on Saturday.
[00:32:06]  And additionally, they have blocked pay for TSA workers seven times when Democrats tried to bring it up.
[00:32:15]  It's preposterous because the chaos at our airports is simply unacceptable.
[00:32:21]  Still, Democrats are going to keep working in good faith.
[00:32:25]  Donald Trump, meanwhile, is trying to sabotage negotiations, demanding that talk stop entirely until Congress passes the SAVE Act, a bill that has nothing, nothing to do with paying TSA workers and nothing to do with ending the shutdown.
[00:32:41]  That's right.
[00:32:42]  Donald Trump is now saying we'll pay TSA only after Congress passes voter suppression.
[00:32:49]  What a ridiculous thing to do.
[00:32:52]  What a callous thing to do.
[00:32:54]  He doesn't give a damn about the American people.
[00:32:57]  He cares about his own election.
[00:32:59]  He thinks this SAVE Act, which isn't going to pass, will change how the election comes out.
[00:33:05]  And he uses millions and millions of Americans as hostages.
[00:33:11]  How can our Republican friends on the other side of the aisle go along with this?
[00:33:18]  It stinks on its face.
[00:33:21]  That was the minority leader Chuck Schumer on the state of affairs when it comes to restoring government at DHS.
[00:33:28]  You can talk about that and which party to blame.
[00:33:31]  Call us on the lines.
[00:33:32]  Post on social media.
[00:33:34]  You can also text us too at 202748-8003.
[00:33:38]  If you are on the lines, hold for a few minutes.
[00:33:41]  If you're calling in, keep calling in.
[00:33:43]  To give us the state of play when it comes to the government shutdown, the partial one at DHS, Zach Shermile of USA Today joins us.
[00:33:51]  He covers Congress.
[00:33:52]  Mr. Shermiley, thanks for your time.
[00:33:54]  Thanks so much for having me.
[00:33:55]  Where do things stand as far as some type of path forward of restoring funding?
[00:34:00]  You know, senators emerged from their vote last night to confirm Oklahoma Republican Senator Mark Wayne Mullen to lead the Department of Homeland Security with newfound optimism.

=== Bipartisan Votes and Reconciliation Bills (06:10) ===

[00:34:12]  You know, really, these types of things, they move very slowly until all of a sudden they move very quickly.
[00:34:18]  And I think last night was a good indication of that.
[00:34:21]  There was a number of Republican senators, including notably that Alabama Republican, Katie Britt, who were over at the White House last night and speaking with the president about a potential path forward on funding the Department of Homeland Security.
[00:34:38]  And when asked about whether or not a deal was within reach, Britt told reporters, yes, we are working to land this plane very quickly.
[00:34:48]  You know, the rumors right now are that a deal could potentially include funding for the department and sort of taking out pieces of immigration and customs enforcement, which could be funded through a separate reconciliation bill that lawmakers have already been potentially discussing later in the summer.
[00:35:09]  But all of that is very much in flux right now.
[00:35:11]  And I think Democrats are waiting on legislative text to ensure whether some of these offers from Republicans are actually realistic.
[00:35:19]  I was going to ask when it comes to the Democratic perspective, is this dead on the table?
[00:35:24]  Is it a possibility?
[00:35:25]  What's the mood?
[00:35:25]  You know, it's interesting.
[00:35:27]  Democrats last night were actually relatively optimistic.
[00:35:32]  I think, again, things are very much in flux right now, and what is put forward in legislative text is going to be a really key consideration here.
[00:35:41]  But, you know, folks like Senator Peter Welch, Senator Chris Coons were relatively optimistic, too, when they were chatting with their Republican colleagues on the floor of the Senate during that vote.
[00:35:54]  So, you know, we're going to have to see what Democrats say coming out of their weekly meetings today, but things seem to be moving quite quickly.
[00:36:02]  We saw a lot of the Presidents of the Borders Art Tom Holman.
[00:36:06]  What has been his contributions to moving these things forward?
[00:36:09]  Right.
[00:36:09]  Yes, he was on the Hill meeting with folks like Senator Patty Murray, the Democratic ranking member on the Appropriations Committee in the Senate and a number of other lawmakers over the course of the past couple of days.
[00:36:27]  And I think that he was playing a key role with respect to the administration's talks at this particular juncture in the negotiations.
[00:36:39]  And I think Mark Wayne Mullen, prior to and now, considering the fact that he has been confirmed, is going to continue to play a role as well in these negotiations.
[00:36:49]  The state of negotiations, we heard the president now say yesterday the Save America Act has to be part of anything that goes forward.
[00:36:55]  What does that do to complicate matters?
[00:36:58]  Well, you know, for me as a legislative nerd, kind of, I think that it just is an indication that reconciliation is already ballooning.
[00:37:07]  I mean, you know, there was so much in the one big beautiful bill that passed last year.
[00:37:11]  And remember, reconciliation because of, you know, procedural hijinks in the Senate mean that it only requires a simple majority in the Senate for a bill like that to go through.
[00:37:23]  Of course, it's all dependent on what the Senate parliamentarian decides is okay because those types of statutes have to have sort of a budgetary consideration.
[00:37:33]  But there was discussion yesterday.
[00:37:35]  There's reporting to indicate that potentially moving some aspects of SAVE could be in a reconciliation bill.
[00:37:42]  But you have to think about it.
[00:37:43]  I mean, just over the course of the past week or so, we're talking about Iran war funding, right, a potential supplemental defense bill and reconciliation.
[00:37:52]  We are talking about funding for ICE.
[00:37:54]  We are talking about that other piece, Save America, and voting restrictions ahead of the midterm elections.
[00:38:02]  That's a lot.
[00:38:04]  And, you know, I think that these types of things tend to snowball, and that could complicate the efforts in the Senate.
[00:38:09]  You say it's a lot.
[00:38:10]  How much is that complicated?
[00:38:12]  Come this Friday.
[00:38:14]  Legislators are set to take a break, at least so we think.
[00:38:16]  How does that complicate things?
[00:38:18]  Well, do not underestimate senators' alacrity to want to leave Washington when they have been told that they are going to have a two-week recess.
[00:38:26]  I think that is a key piece, actually, in this.
[00:38:29]  Senators want to go, and they were here over the weekend, and they are ready to be home for a two-week Easter recess.
[00:38:37]  I think that that is one of the reasons why we're seeing some newfound movement.
[00:38:43]  They want to get out of Washington, and they want to go speak to their constituents.
[00:38:47]  You know, you can't forget that we are in a midterm year, and lawmakers being able to have that FaceTime in their home districts is really important, especially for people like Susan Collins, right, who are running for reelection, but also are having to navigate.
[00:39:01]  Collins is the chair of the Appropriations Committee in the Senate.
[00:39:04]  So she's really been at the center of a lot of these talks as well.
[00:39:08]  They have to navigate kind of those being pulled in different directions.
[00:39:13]  You started by talking about Senator Mullen becoming the new head of DHS.
[00:39:17]  Let's finish with that.
[00:39:18]  Who were the legislators that voted for him on the Democratic side and voted against him on the Republican side?
[00:39:23]  You know, something that's important to consider here is that in the past, these types of votes have been relatively bipartisan.
[00:39:30]  You know, senators tend to give folks who are in the chamber with them when they're up for a confirmation vote some sort of deference.
[00:39:39]  But, you know, I think it just speaks to how polarized the Senate right now is that that didn't necessarily happen.
[00:39:45]  We had GOP Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky, who's actually the chair of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, vote against Mullen, the pair famously don't get along.
[00:39:55]  And Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania and Martin Heinrich of New Mexico voting to confirm Mark Wayne Mullen.
[00:40:04]  Heinrich said that he is actually friends with Mullen, despite the fact that they are on opposite sides of the aisle and said in a statement earlier this week that he wants someone who could stand up to folks in the Trump administration and voice their opinions about things and not necessarily just toe the administration's line.

=== Blame Game Over Partial Shutdown (14:53) ===

[00:40:23]  And if there's one thing we know about Mark Wayne Mullen, it's that he's kind of pugilistic.
[00:40:28]  He used to be an MMA fighter, so he's not someone who tends to just always go along with things.
[00:40:34]  You can see the work of our guest at USA Today, Zach Shermale covers Congress for that publication.
[00:40:40]  Thanks for your time.
[00:40:41]  Thanks so much for having me.
[00:40:42]  Back to your calls.
[00:40:43]  When it comes to which party is to blame for the partial government shutdown, Terry and Atlanta Democrats line, thanks for holding on.
[00:40:50]  Go ahead.
[00:40:52]  Thank you for having me, Pedro.
[00:40:54]  Good morning, America.
[00:40:56]  I'm going to ignore Zach because I think he is very partial to the right.
[00:41:05]  In his comments, he tries to be lukewarm, but little things come out that show where his support is.
[00:41:12]  Now, the lady that called in from Tennessee talking about what's happening at the Atlanta airport, I am here.
[00:41:18]  Let me tell you, things are not moving swiftly at the Atlanta airport.
[00:41:22]  I've had relatives coming and going.
[00:41:24]  I've been assisting in getting them there and bringing them back.
[00:41:28]  It is chaotic.
[00:41:30]  And ICE representatives have made it worse.
[00:41:34]  They are not doing anything but walking around, flexing and intimidating all of the people at the airport.
[00:41:42]  So, Terry, let me pause.
[00:41:44]  Just Terry, let me pause for a second.
[00:41:46]  Folks, we're showing you the current line structure when it comes to Atlanta Airport.
[00:41:51]  Terry, go ahead.
[00:41:54]  Okay, they're intimidating.
[00:41:56]  They're walking around intimidating people.
[00:41:57]  They don't know the process for getting people through TSA because they haven't been trained, and that's been said on both sides.
[00:42:05]  But once again, look at who's in charge, who's in charge of the executive branch, and who's in charge of the legislative branch.
[00:42:15]  And that is where you lay the blame.
[00:42:19]  Okay.
[00:42:19]  Diane is next.
[00:42:20]  Diane is next in Missouri Republican line.
[00:42:23]  Good morning.
[00:42:23]  You're next.
[00:42:24]  Good morning.
[00:42:28]  Chuck Schumer is one who has shut down this government three times now.
[00:42:34]  And the Democrats just don't understand.
[00:42:37]  When Chuck doesn't get his way, the government shuts down.
[00:42:42]  It has nothing to do with Trump.
[00:42:45]  It has to do with Chuck and the Democrats.
[00:42:48]  It's terrible that they do this to our people that work with the government.
[00:42:54]  It's horrible.
[00:42:57]  Gloria?
[00:42:58]  Gloria in Ohio, independent line.
[00:43:01]  Hi there.
[00:43:02]  Hi, good morning.
[00:43:05]  I believe, is this just my opinion?
[00:43:08]  It's the Republicans' fault for the shutdown Due to the fact that we're only asking for something real simple is not to be masked.
[00:43:20]  If they could not be masked at the airport, why can't they be not masked on the streets?
[00:43:25]  They're asking for the TSA want this to be funded while the partial shutdown, but Donald Trump denied that he went against them getting two steps the last shutdown.
[00:43:39]  The Democrats wanted that to be funded.
[00:43:42]  So I believe what the American people just need to open their eyes.
[00:43:46]  Every time the Democrats try to get something for the people, it's the Republicans always shooting them down.
[00:43:54]  So I just want the world, the whole world, just to open their eyes to who we have in government now.
[00:44:01]  I just believe, with my opinion, it's the Republicans.
[00:44:06]  The Republicans can fund these people and get them their money because I feel like it's a slap in the TSA space for us to be able to walk around and get paid and do nothing while they sit there and they have to sit there and deal with all these people and try and get them to their destination to not get paid.
[00:44:24]  Okay, that's Gloria there.
[00:44:25]  This is the headline from the Houston Chronicle published this morning.
[00:44:28]  A story Houston travelers facing four hour TSA waits on Tuesday at Georgia Bush International Airport as shutdown drags on.
[00:44:38]  Take a gander at that headline.
[00:44:39]  Let's hear from John in Washington, D.C. Democrats line.
[00:44:43]  Hello.
[00:44:45]  Good morning.
[00:44:46]  I'm a first-time caller to the show.
[00:44:48]  And I see it's just the Republicans.
[00:44:51]  It's their fault.
[00:44:52]  They're not needing about leadership right now.
[00:44:55]  They control the House incident in the White House, too.
[00:44:58]  It's not right, though.
[00:44:59]  Come on.
[00:45:01]  You got to be accountable to you.
[00:45:02]  Got to be responsible to your people.
[00:45:04]  And the people who work with TSA need to get paid.
[00:45:07]  And it's only right to pay those people.
[00:45:09]  They're working to deal with all the stress deal with people traveling.
[00:45:12]  And right now it's a crucial time.
[00:45:13]  We've got spring break going on.
[00:45:14]  We got people traveling on vacations and everything.
[00:45:17]  So they need to get paid.
[00:45:20]  They're not blaming on Republicans.
[00:45:21]  We showed you the Houston Chronicle headline.
[00:45:23]  Here's live pictures that you're seeing from Houston Airport.
[00:45:28]  When it comes to delays and waits amongst some of the nation's airport, partly due to callouts, which you heard our guest earlier talk about that are taking place because of financial concerns from TSA workers, the larger issues that we've talked about with our other guests when it comes to Capitol Hill, when it comes to amongst the Republicans and Democrats, is finding that funding for the Department of Homeland Security to end the partial government shutdown at DHS.
[00:45:57]  All those up for consideration as you give us a call and tell us what you think about the party and who's to blame when it comes to these things.
[00:46:04]  Virginia is where John is our line for Republicans.
[00:46:09]  Hello.
[00:46:10]  Good morning.
[00:46:11]  Thank you for taking my call.
[00:46:14]  It's 100%.
[00:46:16]  This shutdown is 100% Democrats' fault.
[00:46:20]  And the reason I say that is because all it would take is for a few Republicans, just like the last shutdown, a few Democrats, just like the last shutdown, to vote with Republicans and the government would be open.
[00:46:35]  See, a lot of people call in like say that Republicans in charge of the government, but that's not exactly true.
[00:46:42]  They don't have a sort of proof in the Senate.
[00:46:47]  So they need Democrats to vote to open up the government.
[00:46:53]  A lot of people call in.
[00:46:55]  They just don't know.
[00:46:56]  And I don't know you know, Pedro.
[00:47:00]  Why won't you tell them that Republicans need Democrats to help them to open up the government?
[00:47:06]  Well, let me ask you this.
[00:47:07]  The president wants to add the save act to all of this in order to get that.
[00:47:10]  Is that going to complicate things for Democrats then?
[00:47:14]  It's a no-brainer that you should have an ID to vote.
[00:47:19]  I mean, you got to have an ID for everything.
[00:47:21]  Sure, but adding it to DHS, do you think that complicates matters when it comes to restoring that funding?
[00:47:27]  Well, you also know that politicians do this all the time.
[00:47:30]  Democrats load bills up with other things all the time.
[00:47:35]  It happens.
[00:47:36]  It just, that's the way it is.
[00:47:38]  Okay.
[00:47:39]  John in Virginia, the New York Times reporting adding that the Trump administration, when it comes to those ICE workers, adding not many details about the agents that would help that manage the long wait times, but in a statement that was put out yesterday by Mayor Brandon Johnson of Chicago, said the agent's duties includes managing security lines, monitoring exit lanes, and making routine announcements like telling passengers to remove liquids from their carry-on bags.
[00:48:05]  Those tasks, he added, were intended to allow TSA officers to stay focused on passenger and baggage screening.
[00:48:13]  Let's hear from Liz.
[00:48:14]  Liz is from Pittsburgh.
[00:48:17]  Independent line is another shot of airport weights when it comes to TSA.
[00:48:22]  Liz, good morning.
[00:48:24]  Good morning, Pedro.
[00:48:26]  It's totally the Republicans' fault.
[00:48:29]  First of all, the Democrats have offered a carve-out to ensure that DHS is funded with the exception of ICE.
[00:48:38]  As far as the first shutdown, the Republicans refused to pay SNAP and the military, even though the Democrats wanted to.
[00:48:46]  It is unfair to expect the people in this country to accept ICE acting outside of any other protocols that other police officers have to perform under.
[00:48:59]  This is totally a Republican shutdown.
[00:49:02]  And as far as adding the SAVE Act on top of it, it's not only about photo ID, it's also about poll tax for some people with respect to having to obtain passports and also infringement on state sovereignty over elections by having our personal election information turned over to the government.
[00:49:24]  So no, Republicans and Trump are misleading the country on all of this.
[00:49:29]  TSA agents should be paid.
[00:49:32]  Republicans should accept the carve-out where Democrats are saying pay our TSA agents and then we will discuss everything about ICE, which is already extremely funded.
[00:49:45]  Thank you for taking my call.
[00:49:47]  From Maryland, Democrats line, we'll hear next from Tony.
[00:49:50]  Hello.
[00:49:52]  Hello, good morning.
[00:49:53]  Yes.
[00:49:54]  It's definitely the Republicans' fault, especially with the, well, I wouldn't say about the SAVE Act, though.
[00:50:02]  People got to, in the red states, they have to realize.
[00:50:06]  Well, let's go back to your initial.
[00:50:08]  Why is it Republicans' fault?
[00:50:10]  Because they already, you know, they have the power to move.
[00:50:15]  They can move money like they take money from Social Security.
[00:50:18]  I'm on Social Security.
[00:50:19]  They take money from Social Security and they put it in other places.
[00:50:22]  Well, if ICE has all these billions of dollars from the Big Beautiful bill and you need money for TSA agents and the Coast Guard, then move the money around.
[00:50:35]  Take that money that's already more than ICE can use.
[00:50:40]  Why do you need more money?
[00:50:41]  And that's the thing.
[00:50:42]  They want more money for ICE.
[00:50:44]  ICE already has more money than they can spend.
[00:50:49]  And they are holding up the Coast Guard and TSA just to get more money for ICE.
[00:50:54]  But ICE has already been funded past whatever.
[00:50:59]  And they don't want to fund ICE because of the murders of the two people in Minnesota.
[00:51:06]  And, you know, they just don't want to even investigate that.
[00:51:09]  But what I want to say about the SAVE Act and those that are Republicans in Red States, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Tennessee, you all experience tornadoes.
[00:51:20]  And all your information, all your birth certificates are blown all across the country each year, every year.
[00:51:28]  So how are people like that?
[00:51:30]  And in California, of course, the wildfires, people's houses burned down.
[00:51:34]  How are you going to get all your documentation and everything before the midterms?
[00:51:39]  It's going to be impossible.
[00:51:40]  Okay.
[00:51:41]  Okay.
[00:51:41]  That's Tony there in Maryland.
[00:51:43]  Let's hear from the Transportation Secretary, Sean Duffy, making a plea for the funding to Congress.
[00:51:48]  He making also these comments from LaGuardia Airport on Sunday.
[00:51:53]  I want to make another point.
[00:51:55]  You know, I've been asking the Congress for additional money.
[00:51:59]  Many of you have reported that we need more money for air traffic control.
[00:52:03]  We are modernizing our system, but we can't fully modernize it until the Congress gives us additional money.
[00:52:10]  It's not a partisan issue.
[00:52:12]  Both Democrats and Republicans agree, but they have to have the will to finish the funding.
[00:52:19]  I'm not saying that this crash would have been prevented if we had all the equipment deployed.
[00:52:25]  But it's important if we care about air travel safety, we care about having a brand new air traffic control system, the best in the world with the best equipment, virtually all of it developed here in America.
[00:52:38]  Photographs taking place on many of the front pages of papers this morning from that crash yesterday at LaGuardia Airport.
[00:52:47]  These amongst them from the New York Times this morning, Dakota, Santiago for the New York Times photograph there.
[00:52:54]  Let's go to Walter.
[00:52:56]  Walter in Delaware, Independent Line.
[00:53:00]  Yes.
[00:53:00]  Good morning, sir.
[00:53:01]  Morning.
[00:53:03]  I can't understand the big issue about the birth certificates.
[00:53:10]  Well, let's go back to the initial question of who's to blame for the shutdown, the partial shutdown at DHS first.
[00:53:16]  I tell you, they called the Nazis Democrats.
[00:53:23]  Hate to say it, but that's how it is.
[00:53:26]  But the birth certificates are for our day.
[00:53:29]  Doesn't people keep their personal papers in a safe deposit box or a fireproof box or something?
[00:53:41]  You can get any, what state you were born in and get that birth certificate.
[00:53:47]  Okay, Walter, in Delaware, we heard our guests talk about the current state of play between an effort of Republicans in the Senate, Democrats to pass legislation to get funding.
[00:53:58]  This is from Punch Bowl this morning, adding to the mix saying it's too early to say whether this DHS framework will satisfy Senate Democrats.
[00:54:05]  There are several key details that still need to be ironed out.
[00:54:08]  Many Democrats pointed to what they see as a sense of urgency to get something done, especially as nightmarish TSA security lines cause chaos for millions of air travelers.
[00:54:17]  Senator Katie Britt, a key negotiator from the White House meeting with the president saying she planned to be working through the night to try to land this plane.
[00:54:26]  We're told that the appropriators are actively discussing a path forward, exchanging legislative texts last night, another important dynamic, which the guest also pointed out.
[00:54:34]  A senator is set to leave Washington at the end of the week for the scheduled two-week recess, especially after being forced to stay in town all weekend.
[00:54:41]  And Democrats have long been pushing to fund non-ICE portions of DHS, such as TSA, the Coast Guard, and FEMA.
[00:54:48]  So stay close to the Senate on C-SPAN 2 this week as we see this continue to play out.
[00:54:55]  This is another view of Atlanta's airport.
[00:54:59]  And as you look at that, and you want to tell us who's to blame for the shutdown, this is Candace, Candace in Nashville, Tennessee, Independent Line.
[00:55:09]  Good morning.
[00:55:11]  I blame all of the government for their own shutdown.

=== Lobbying Bribes and Government Shutdown (09:39) ===

[00:55:17]  These people are getting bribes from lobbyists.
[00:55:21]  These people are getting bribes when they're inaugurated.
[00:55:24]  They're getting lots of money from Israel.
[00:55:26]  Yet, notice that the illegal surveillance never shuts down.
[00:55:31]  They never shut down the illegal surveillance that they're doing on the American public, including children.
[00:55:38]  Okay, exactly.
[00:55:39]  Exactly.
[00:55:40]  And how do all these things relate to the shutdown at hand at some of the just affecting airports and the like?
[00:55:47]  It's the same group of criminals.
[00:55:50]  That's what is the common threat.
[00:55:52]  It's the same group of criminal politicians that are being bribed.
[00:55:59]  And why are we expecting them to ever get anything positive accomplished?
[00:56:03]  They're criminals.
[00:56:06]  Kathy in Florida, Democrats line.
[00:56:10]  Hello, you're next up.
[00:56:11]  Thank you for having my call.
[00:56:14]  I hear so much about the politicians being crooked, but the CEOs of companies, corporations here, I think have made a mess out of our politicians.
[00:56:26]  They're the ones, the previous caller hit my note.
[00:56:32]  You have CEOs that are getting $53 million, $163 million.
[00:56:38]  Their cooperations are paying into the pains of the politicians who will be in their pocket with their lawyers.
[00:56:48]  And this is where I think we've gone wrong.
[00:56:51]  Maybe, I don't know how.
[00:56:54]  Well, how does that exactly relate to the topic we're discussing?
[00:56:59]  It means that basically they're getting paid to vote the way they vote in order to get in the corporations, get in what they want into law.
[00:57:21]  That's where we're going wrong now.
[00:57:25]  I think it looks like with Trump, he really has the power.
[00:57:34]  And the only thing that's stopping him is basically the general public doesn't like what he has added to the bill so that he can get his way because he's not going to get those ICE people are making all kinds of money and only causing havoc.
[00:58:00]  We've seen Transportation Secretary Duffy and Senator Booker speak from New Jersey-based airports.
[00:58:06]  Our next call is from New Jersey, Carolina line for Republicans.
[00:58:09]  Hello.
[00:58:11]  Hello.
[00:58:12]  I am for ICE to be in the airports.
[00:58:16]  I feel safer.
[00:58:18]  I feel that they can do the job.
[00:58:22]  What does it take to look at a bag?
[00:58:27]  And I feel safer.
[00:58:28]  And I feel that it's the Democrats that's giving this country so much trouble.
[00:58:40]  I feel safer with, I don't believe all the stuff that President Trump is doing, but in time of a war, I feel that I feel safer with ICE being there.
[00:58:56]  I feel safer with the TSA workers should get paid.
[00:59:04]  And it's the Democrats' fault for doing this.
[00:59:08]  Apologies.
[00:59:10]  That's Caroline, Carolyn in New Jersey.
[00:59:12]  Apologies, viewers.
[00:59:13]  Transportation Secretary Duffy spoke from LaGuardia Airport, New York.
[00:59:18]  Also, the folks there heard from New York City Mayor is Oran Mamdami about the efforts in LaGuardia, especially in light of that recent crash.
[00:59:26]  Here are his comments.
[00:59:28]  And I know that this crash has shaken New Yorkers across the five boroughs, whether they are traveling today or simply watching from home, especially since it's the first fatal crash at LaGuardia in more than 30 years.
[00:59:40]  I want New Yorkers to know that the National Transportation Safety Board is investigating the cause of this accident and that we will not rest until the conclusion of that investigation.
[00:59:50]  And as always, callers, if you want to see more of this video and comments made, you have a couple of resources available to you.
[00:59:56]  Our C-SPAN Now app, if you want to see recent things we've taken in, and as always, you can go to the website at c-span.org, Nashville, Tennessee.
[01:00:06]  That's where Richard is, our line for independence.
[01:00:10]  Good morning.
[01:00:11]  You're next.
[01:00:12]  Good morning, Pedro.
[01:00:14]  Pedro, you know, tend to lean more toward the Republicans on this, but I think both parties, really, to be honest, are at fault.
[01:00:21]  And I'll tell you why.
[01:00:23]  Let's just look at it this way.
[01:00:25]  One side wants some things.
[01:00:26]  The other side wants some other things.
[01:00:28]  And they're both right in what they're trying to do for their constituents in their particular area of the country.
[01:00:34]  But at the end of the day, it's like a poker game.
[01:00:36]  You and I are playing poker.
[01:00:37]  You bet $2.
[01:00:38]  Well, I see your $2 and I raise you $2.
[01:00:41]  And then you come back and you raise me again.
[01:00:43]  And that's what Donald Trump did.
[01:00:45]  When they wanted the ICE was already funded, I believe, to 2029, it come apart of the big, beautiful bill they talk about.
[01:00:54]  But then when you look at it, they come back and they wanted to defund ICE.
[01:00:59]  They didn't like everything that was going to Minnesota around the country.
[01:01:02]  And, you know, and that's their prerogative.
[01:01:05]  And I can respect that.
[01:01:07]  So it got passed.
[01:01:09]  So now they're dealing with it in this save, you know.
[01:01:11]  So Donald Trump, he just matched them with the Save America Act.
[01:01:14]  He said, well, I'll raise you.
[01:01:16]  And that's where we're at at this point.
[01:01:18]  It's just they're back and forth with each other.
[01:01:20]  But what's going to really happen is that with all this backup and people missing their job duties or their family members and they're having to go back to work and they're getting out of money and all this, this is going to really hurt.
[01:01:32]  Who is it going to hurt?
[01:01:33]  The ones that are in power or the ones that are trying to get in power?
[01:01:36]  So that's the big question.
[01:01:39]  Who do you think holds the better cards?
[01:01:40]  You said they're both to blame, but who do you think holds the better cards to play off your poker analogy?
[01:01:46]  Well, the better card is the one that's got all the power or in a poker game, all the money.
[01:01:51]  See, because if we're playing poker and I got a stack full of money, I'm playing with house money.
[01:01:56]  You see what I'm playing with house money, so let's play ball.
[01:02:00]  And that's where they are right now.
[01:02:01]  The Democrats, if they really want to win, they're going to have to get to the meet and pay that's what true Americans want.
[01:02:08]  And not only for the people coming into the country, but the people that are trying to get in this country.
[01:02:14]  And, you know, I'm poor people, but at the same time, I want to rule the law because we have to have safety.
[01:02:20]  Remember, 911, remember, 911.
[01:02:24]  Okay, Richard there in Tennessee giving us his thoughts.
[01:02:27]  Let's go to Calvin.
[01:02:28]  Calvin's in Georgia Democrats line.
[01:02:30]  Good morning.
[01:02:31]  Thanks for calling.
[01:02:32]  Good morning.
[01:02:34]  And thanks for taking my call.
[01:02:37]  I believe it's the Republicans' fault.
[01:02:41]  It was the Republicans' fought this shutdown.
[01:02:44]  It was the Republicans' fault last shutdown.
[01:02:46]  And let's be frank.
[01:02:50]  It's not the Save America Act, to be honest with you.
[01:02:55]  It's actually called, excuse my French, save Trump's ass from being, from being, got the point.
[01:03:09]  Let's go to Jim.
[01:03:10]  Jim in Nevada, Republican line.
[01:03:12]  Go ahead.
[01:03:14]  Yeah, I just have one suggestion that I'm kind of surprised I haven't heard.
[01:03:19]  Not really picking aside blaming one or the other.
[01:03:23]  But if TSA workers really want this non-payment to end and start getting paid for the next three days, say starting Wednesday, go Thursday, Friday, every one of them, and I mean every one of them, call in sick, shut down all the airlines, all the airports, and this will be fixed in a day in Congress.
[01:03:49]  Let's take one more call, and that call will be Patton, Idaho, Independent Line.
[01:03:54]  Good morning.
[01:03:54]  Thank you for taking my call.
[01:03:57]  You know what?
[01:03:58]  I blame the Democrats for this.
[01:03:59]  There's not one thing that Trump has done that they've agreed to anything.
[01:04:06]  I feel that both parties should be locked up in a room like, you know, when you're doing jury duty, and they should solve this, not go home and not get paid.
[01:04:18]  And any money that they receive should be going to the TSA people until they resolve this.
[01:04:26]  Because this is crazy.
[01:04:27]  This just goes on and on.
[01:04:28]  But they should be locked up in Washington and not being able to go home.
[01:04:34]  They shouldn't be getting any pay, no benefits.
[01:04:38]  And that's just the way I feel.
[01:04:39]  Thank you.
[01:04:40]  Patton, Idaho, finishing off this hour plus of your calls, thanks for those of you who participated this morning.
[01:04:46]  Later on in the program, we will talk about foreign policy, particularly when it comes to the ongoing Iran conflict with the Council on Foreign Relations Senior Fellow and Foreign Policy James Lindsay.

=== Support C-SPAN Founders Day Gift (02:11) ===

[01:04:56]  Up next, though, former president, economic advisor, the president and co-founder of the group Unleashing Economic Prosperity, Steve Moore, about the potential economic impact of the Iran conflict and the president's economic agenda.
[01:05:09]  That discussion coming up on Washington Journal.
[01:05:34]  Sunday with our guest, Beverly Gage, a professor of American history at Yale.
[01:05:39]  Her book, G-Man, J. Edgar Hoover, and The Making of the American Century, received numerous literary awards and prizes, including the Pulitzer Prize for Biography, the Bancroft Prize in American History, the National Book Critics Circle Award for Biography, and the Los Angeles Times Book Prize in Biography.
[01:05:59]  Her most recent book is This Land is Your Land, a Road Trip Through U.S. History.
[01:06:04]  She joins our host, renowned author and civic leader David Rubinstein.
[01:06:09]  Now, when biographers spend five years, 10 years, 15 years or so with a person, they often fall in love with them because they spend so much time with them.
[01:06:17]  Did you fall in love with J. Edgar Hoover or you come away saying, geez, he's not as good as I thought or wished he was?
[01:06:23]  I did not fall in love with J. Edgar Hoover.
[01:06:26]  It's safe to say.
[01:06:27]  Nor did I think that I would.
[01:06:29]  To me, I was just fascinated by him the whole time.
[01:06:33]  I thought that he was important, and I thought that he was really an interesting, complicated character.
[01:06:38]  We mostly know him as a villain, and I did find that he was much more complicated than that one-dimensional portrait.
[01:06:46]  Watch America's Book Club with Beverly Gage Sunday at 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific.
[01:06:54]  Only on C-SPAN.
[01:07:04]  You're watching democracy happen in real time.

=== Tariffs and American Economic Growth (15:16) ===

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[01:07:38]  Washington Journal continues.
[01:07:40]  Joining us now, Stephen Moore, former economic advisor to President Trump in 2016, also the co-founder of the group Unleash Prosperity, here to talk about other things, the economy in light of the Iran conflict.
[01:07:53]  Good morning to you.
[01:07:54]  Hi, Pedro.
[01:07:54]  Great to be with you.
[01:07:55]  Love C-SPAN.
[01:07:56]  Thanks so much for having me on.
[01:07:57]  Welcome back.
[01:07:58]  With all the attention on the Strait of Hormuz, how does that deal with the world economically, particularly with the United States at this point?
[01:08:04]  Well, here we go again.
[01:08:06]  You know, I grew up in the 1970s, and I remember when the Iran hostage crisis and we saw oil prices spike and we were subject to being hostage to OPEC countries.
[01:08:17]  And every 10 years or so, there's always a flare-up in the Middle East.
[01:08:23]  The Middle East is one of the, obviously, one of the major areas of the world that produces oil.
[01:08:28]  Although it's very interesting, I just was looking up these statistics a couple of days ago.
[01:08:32]  The United States is today the number one oil and gas producer in the world, which I was even surprised to see.
[01:08:38]  So we've surpassed Saudi Arabia, but still so much oil comes in through that straits of Hormuz and goes all over the world that anytime you see a disruption in that oil supply, it affects gas prices not just in the United States, but all over the world.
[01:08:54]  So we've seen the gas price rise from about less than $3 a gallon, and many places are paying $4.50 a gallon, and it could go up a little bit more given what's happening in these global markets.
[01:09:08]  So that's going to, no question about it, that's going to put a strain on the economy.
[01:09:13]  We're going to see higher consumer prices over the next couple of months, Pedro, because energy is an input to everything we produce, our food, our technology, our manufactured products.
[01:09:24]  So we're all kind of hoping and praying that this situation gets resolved as quickly as possible.
[01:09:30]  By the way, there's no shortage of oil in the world.
[01:09:33]  We have plenty of oil and gas.
[01:09:34]  The problem is just getting that supply through the Straits of Hormuz right now.
[01:09:39]  People are paying the prices you're paying for gas.
[01:09:41]  How does that complicate the president's message on matters of the economy?
[01:09:44]  A lot of affordability talk that many people have been talking about.
[01:09:47]  No, that's a very good point.
[01:09:48]  I mean, at the beginning of this year, I and a lot of good economists like Larry Kudlow and others had really predicted that 2026 was going to be a blockbuster year for the economy.
[01:10:00]  And it was really teed up to be a strong economy.
[01:10:03]  But now we've had this conflict in Iran, and that has certainly created a bump in the road.
[01:10:09]  Now, how high and long that bump is going to be, we don't know.
[01:10:12]  But the next couple of months are going to be tough.
[01:10:16]  If we get the straits open and the price comes back down, I think we can slide right through this.
[01:10:21]  And by summer, we'll have a strong economy again.
[01:10:24]  I mean, 2025 was a very good year for the economy.
[01:10:27]  We saw big, big gains in the stock market.
[01:10:30]  The average family after inflation gained about $2,500 in income, so their affordability bumped up a little bit.
[01:10:37]  But listen, I understand people are angry.
[01:10:39]  My wife is angry about, you know, grocery prices, health care prices, housing prices.
[01:10:45]  Those are all still remain stubbornly high.
[01:10:49]  When's the last time you talked to the president about these issues?
[01:10:51]  I saw him about three or four weeks ago, actually right shortly before the Iran bombing started, and he was in a very good mood.
[01:11:01]  I told him, look, you've created a blockbuster economy, Mr. President.
[01:11:04]  But little did I know, a week later we'd see this conflict in Iran.
[01:11:10]  We have another issue that's really been an issue that a lot of people are concerned about about where are the jobs going to be in the future, because the big thing that's coming, Pedro, is this artificial intelligence, robotics.
[01:11:28]  It's very exciting, but it's also going to displace a lot of workers as well.
[01:11:33]  So those are the kind of issues that I think are the top of mind to me and a lot of American workers.
[01:11:38]  Steve Moore with Unleashed Prosperity joining us for this conversation.
[01:11:42]  If you want to ask him questions, 202748-8000 for Democrats, 202748-8001 for Republicans and Independents, 202-748-8002.
[01:11:51]  Text us your thoughts at 202-748-8003 in the Washington Times today.
[01:11:56]  You talked about energy, but you also bring up the role you describe, I guess it's described as bureaucrats, how they play into this, particularly as far as where we go when it comes to energy independence.
[01:12:08]  Elaborate on that.
[01:12:09]  Well, listen, I mean, I agree entirely with Trump's overall economic energy strategy, which is we should be producing as much oil and gas here at home as we can.
[01:12:19]  And we should use all forms of energy.
[01:12:22]  Oil, gas, we should use our coal.
[01:12:25]  We have clean coal in this country.
[01:12:27]  We have more coal than any other country in the world.
[01:12:29]  And we should be building nuclear power plants.
[01:12:31]  I mean, the big issue, even put aside what's happening in the Middle East right now, our energy demands, Pedro, over the next 15 years are going to triple, triple.
[01:12:43]  So that's going to put huge strains on our electric grid system.
[01:12:47]  It's going to mean a lot of demands for energy.
[01:12:52]  And by the way, that's largely because of this AI robotics revolution that's coming.
[01:12:58]  Big issue now is data centers, which use huge amounts of energy.
[01:13:02]  So we've got to produce everything we've got.
[01:13:04]  Now, I'm not against wind and solar energy.
[01:13:07]  It shouldn't be subsidized by the government.
[01:13:09]  But even if it works, it's only going to provide maybe 10 or 15 percent of our energy.
[01:13:14]  We're going to have to get most of it from good old fossil fuels and nuclear power.
[01:13:18]  We should probably be building 20 or 30 nuclear plants.
[01:13:21]  And we're just starting to do that for the first time since the early 1980s.
[01:13:26]  Well, even amongst regulatory hurdles, and is the Trump administration changing that to have something like that happen?
[01:13:32]  Are you talking about with respect to nuclear?
[01:13:33]  Nuclear or otherwise when it comes to regulatory planning?
[01:13:35]  Well, nuclear has regulatory hurdles.
[01:13:38]  There's also insurance.
[01:13:39]  You know, those plants are very expensive to insure because we've seen in the past what happened in Three Mile Island.
[01:13:45]  But they're much safer now.
[01:13:47]  And also, the thing that's kind of the new trend in nuclear is to build smaller reactors that maybe can provide the electric power for a town of, say, 250,000 people.
[01:13:59]  But they're smaller, less dangerous, and we can build a lot of those.
[01:14:03]  So when you take the mixture of all of this, oil, gas, coal, nuclear power, we should be using hydropower.
[01:14:09]  People don't realize we get a lot of our number one renewable energy sources from hydropower.
[01:14:14]  We can do this.
[01:14:15]  We can be, this is one of the things you asked me when I told Donald Trump.
[01:14:18]  I said, Mr. President, we can be the energy dominant country in the world.
[01:14:23]  We've got more energy resources than any other nation.
[01:14:26]  There's a story this morning in the New York Times saying that the Trump administration is going to pay a French energy giant, it's described, nearly a billion dollar to abandon plants to build wind farms on the East Coast and using that money to invest in oil and gas projects.
[01:14:42]  What do you think about those strategies as far as the monies involved, at least changing that up?
[01:14:46]  My overall energy strategy is to get the government out of the way.
[01:14:50]  I mean, let all these different forms of energy compete, whichever can provide the most efficient and least costly forms of energy.
[01:14:59]  That's what we should use.
[01:15:01]  And competition is a beautiful thing.
[01:15:03]  So look, if you live in Phoenix, Arizona, solar power makes a lot of sense.
[01:15:07]  If you live in the plains of Texas, you can use wind power.
[01:15:10]  But we're not going to be able to provide enough energy for a $30 trillion economy that produces everything from cars to factories to all of this robotics.
[01:15:25]  We're going to need everything.
[01:15:26]  We're going to need all our energy sources.
[01:15:28]  This idea, one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard was this idea of net zero, that we were going to go to zero fossil fuels.
[01:15:34]  That would be a great way to destroy the American economy.
[01:15:37]  We need our, we still, by the way, today, 70% of our energy, 70% of it, still comes from fossil fuels.
[01:15:46]  We can't go to zero.
[01:15:48]  Steve Moore, along for this conversation.
[01:15:50]  Let's go to Dan.
[01:15:51]  Dan in Massachusetts, Independent Line, you're on with our guests.
[01:15:54]  Go ahead.
[01:15:56]  Hi, thank you for having me on.
[01:15:59]  I just have to mention, Stephen, I talked to you about 20 years ago about LIBOR rates in Britain, but I think most of the people ended up getting suicided on that deal.
[01:16:11]  But as far as Trump's handling of the economy, I think Trump has been very consistent even before he was a politician.
[01:16:20]  He talked about really bad things happening in America and the American economy.
[01:16:29]  And he has been addressing them head on.
[01:16:33]  I mean, the tariffs were a literal way to get manufacturing back.
[01:16:40]  I mean, I lived through the 80s.
[01:16:42]  I watched all the manufacturing go overseas.
[01:16:47]  Literally.
[01:16:48]  I was a part of it, and I was questioning it the whole time.
[01:16:51]  Like, this isn't going to end well.
[01:16:54]  So, and as far as the oil and gas, you know, it's a good thing we're producing a lot of LNG and pumping a lot of oil here in the United States.
[01:17:07]  And I think the Trump presidency has been a counter to what the American people have been hit with with the presidents we've had going back the last 40 years.
[01:17:24]  There's been a war on America.
[01:17:26]  Thanks, Dan.
[01:17:28]  So I'll address the tariff issue since I get asked that all the time.
[01:17:32]  And you know, Pedro, you've known me a long time.
[01:17:34]  I'm a free trade guy.
[01:17:35]  I believe that low tariffs are obviously better than high tariffs.
[01:17:39]  And President Trump knows that.
[01:17:40]  He and I have respectfully disagreed on some of these issues.
[01:17:44]  But I'll sort of present the president's case because I think it's important.
[01:17:48]  And I think there is some truth to this, that it is true that other countries were ripping us off.
[01:17:54]  Other countries were imposing higher tariffs on us than we were on them.
[01:17:57]  So it was not a level playing field.
[01:17:59]  And for our farmers and our manufacturers and our technology companies, that wasn't fair.
[01:18:03]  I mean, we were paying, they were not, they were imposing high tariffs on our stuff we're making at home, but then we were allowing them to sell stuff here.
[01:18:11]  And so Trump wanted a level playing field.
[01:18:13]  And what Trump did was he basically used American leverage because we do have leverage over every country needs to trade with the United States.
[01:18:22]  We're the biggest consumer market in the world.
[01:18:24]  And so to some extent, the policy really did work.
[01:18:29]  I mean, when I would see the president, I'd say, Mr. President, I don't like your tariffs, but I like your trade deals, because he was using these threats of tariffs to get other countries to do things that are in America's economic interest and in the interest of American workers and companies.
[01:18:44]  Now we have this situation, though, where the courts have said you have to, those tariffs were illegal, you're going to have to send that money back.
[01:18:53]  That's a lot of money, Pedro.
[01:18:55]  We're talking about as much as $120 billion that's going to be have to sent back to the companies that paid the tariffs.
[01:19:05]  And so that's going to be a bit of a, even the court said this is going to be a mess, and it is going to be a mess.
[01:19:10]  Do you think that's a foregone conclusion, or are there off-ramps for the it's still being litigated in court about how now that the court has said that these tariffs are illegal, that all the merchants are saying, okay, well, if they're illegal, you have to send it back.
[01:19:24]  I don't think it's definitive, but I think in the end of the day, a lot of these companies are going to get refunds.
[01:19:28]  And by the way, that raises another issue, which is you and I, as consumers, we paid for some of those tariffs.
[01:19:36]  But the money is going to go to Walmart.
[01:19:37]  It's going to go to the superstores and so on.
[01:19:40]  Are they going to give us money back?
[01:19:42]  Are they going to give us rebates or discounts?
[01:19:44]  So there's a lot of issues here.
[01:19:45]  But overall, I would say the tariffs did hurt the economy, and yet we had a good 2025.
[01:19:53]  And now what we're looking at is probably just a lower across-the-board tariff.
[01:19:58]  That's what Trump wants.
[01:19:59]  And, you know, we have to raise revenue somehow, and a tariff isn't necessarily the worst way to do it.
[01:20:04]  much did the supreme court's decision change the president's economic strategy overall depending on those tariffs to accomplish that that's a great question because uh you know trump has well one thing the court has done is it's taken that arrow out of the quiver of so trump would he would sit down with the chinese and the japanese and the europeans and the canadians and he'd say you know if you don't you know treat us fairly or if you don't do something else that's in america's interest we're going to hit you with the big tariff
[01:20:34]  And by the way, that scared a lot of these guys.
[01:20:36]  A lot of time that drove these countries to the bargaining table to negotiate.
[01:20:41]  Now he doesn't have that because he can't just, the court said you can't unilaterally impose tariffs.
[01:20:48]  So we'll see where it goes from here.
[01:20:50]  What it probably means, by the way, is Congress is going to have to.
[01:20:54]  See, what the court said in that decision is the president doesn't have a unilateral authority to do this.
[01:20:59]  It has to go through Congress.
[01:21:01]  And that's probably the right decision.
[01:21:03]  Where's Congress on this?
[01:21:04]  I'd like to see them take a vote on this.
[01:21:07]  From Joanne in Washington State, Democrats line.
[01:21:10]  Hi.
[01:21:11]  Oh, I'm glad you're talking about the tariffs.
[01:21:14]  I Googled that Trump made $3 trillion of the tariffs, and only $1 million went into the Treasury.
[01:21:32]  And I questioned how we could pay our deficit with that.
[01:21:38]  Okay, Joanne in Washington.
[01:21:40]  So just one quick response to that, which is Trump said in a State of the Union a couple months ago that he would like to, you know, he likes tariffs.
[01:21:51]  He would like to replace the income tax with tariffs.
[01:21:56]  And that's an idea I think is very interesting.
[01:21:59]  I hate income taxes.
[01:22:00]  I think they're by far the most economically destructive.
[01:22:03]  I think if we could eliminate our federal income tax, I mean, can you imagine how fast our economy, we would just explode with economic growth if we had zero income tax and all these other countries were at 30, 40, 50 percent.
[01:22:16]  So it's an interesting idea.
[01:22:17]  I don't think it's probably going to happen, but if we can use tariff revenues to lower income taxes, that might be a good trade.

=== Income Tax vs Tariff Debate (03:44) ===

[01:22:23]  But it's for other people to decide.
[01:22:27]  John in Wisconsin, Independent Line.
[01:22:30]  Hi.
[01:22:31]  Hi.
[01:22:32]  Good morning.
[01:22:32]  Thanks for taking my call.
[01:22:34]  I just had a couple of questions for you, Mr. Moore.
[01:22:37]  I'm an independent, libertarian, I don't know, whatever you want to call someone that kind of looks at both sides.
[01:22:45]  As far as the oil thing goes, the price of gas per gallon was $4.50 a gallon under the Biden administration.
[01:22:54]  So I don't understand why everybody's complaining about the price of fuel yet.
[01:22:58]  I'm not particularly happy with it either, but I've just reduced my driving and stuff like that.
[01:23:03]  And when it comes to other energy resources, I saw a little cartoon with Bugs Bunny on it the other day, and it said, you know, we've got LED lights and wind power and solar power and all this other stuff that's supposed to be reducing our energy usage, but yet the price keeps going up.
[01:23:19]  And one last thing is with nuclear power, where does all the nuclear waste still go?
[01:23:24]  No one ever talks about the waste.
[01:23:26]  They keep talking about we need more nuclear, more nuclear.
[01:23:28]  Well, nuclear waste stays buried in a mountain out in Arizona or somewhere for like, and it has this for hundreds of thousands of years or millions of years.
[01:23:39]  So if we expand and make more waste, that can't be a good thing either.
[01:23:43]  Thanks a lot for taking my calls.
[01:23:46]  Great call.
[01:23:47]  So on the first point about the gas price, if that's a big if, if we are able to resolve the situation in Iran in the next four or eight weeks, I can say with pretty much assurance that the price of gas will go back down to where it was before, which was, you know, $2.50 to $3 a gallon, which was a big, because remember, under Biden, as this gentleman said,
[01:24:14]  the price of gas went up to well over $4 a gallon, and that's partly because he was restricting the amount of oil production in the United States.
[01:24:22]  So we ought to, so I think I can give you all some assurances that we're going to see a resumption to low-priced gas.
[01:24:32]  Now, with nuclear power, this gentleman is right.
[01:24:34]  You know, you do have an issue with the nuclear waste of these plants.
[01:24:37]  I'm not an expert on this, but what you do is you bury them in the mountains.
[01:24:41]  And I think we're, you know, if we can do all these incredible technologies that are coming, we can figure out a solution to the nuclear waste problem.
[01:24:51]  Because look, if you're, let me say this.
[01:24:54]  If you're concerned about climate change and if you're concerned about CO2 emissions, it's not something that keeps me up at night, but I know a lot of people worry about that.
[01:25:03]  Well, nuclear power emits no carbon, no pollutions into the atmosphere.
[01:25:08]  It's one of the cleanest forms of energy, except with this issue of the waste.
[01:25:13]  What do you do with the waste?
[01:25:14]  And I think we can resolve that, and it should be part of our, in my opinion, part of our entire equation of producing the energy we need in this country.
[01:25:24]  You said that 2026 was going to be a takeoff year when it comes to the economy before Iran.
[01:25:31]  Aside from Iran, what makes you so confident that there are elements there that are going to be a very important thing?
[01:25:35]  That's a great question.
[01:25:36]  So a couple of things.
[01:25:37]  One is that we're saving about a trillion dollars a year on federal regulations, and that's making America's industries more efficient.
[01:25:47]  Don't forget that the tax cut that Larry Kudlow and I and Art Laffer helped the president put together back in 2017 is now permanent.
[01:25:57]  And that's, so the average family this year is going to save about, we estimate, about $2,500 a year just off of their federal income taxes.
[01:26:05]  So thank God we passed that.

=== Permanent 2017 Tax Cut Savings (15:21) ===

[01:26:08]  And the other thing that makes me super bullish right now is that this revolution is coming in productivity.
[01:26:16]  We are at the cusp of the greatest productivity revolution in the history of the world.
[01:26:21]  And it's coming incredibly rapidly with robotics.
[01:26:24]  I'll just give you one quick example, Pedro.
[01:26:27]  I joined the board of a company called Lightspeed.
[01:26:30]  I don't know if you've ever heard of Lightspeed, but we build houses with robots, with robots.
[01:26:36]  And you should see, people should go, you know, just Google Lightspeed, and you can see the videos of what these robots can do.
[01:26:44]  It's amazing.
[01:26:45]  I mean, so we're going to be able to build houses at 50% less cost, 50% faster.
[01:26:52]  So if people are concerned about the cost of housing, and we all are, guess what?
[01:26:55]  We can start building houses.
[01:26:57]  That's just one little example of this productivity revolution.
[01:26:59]  I'm sure someone would say the robot's going to replace a man swinging.
[01:27:03]  How do you justify that?
[01:27:04]  I mean, yeah, look, in 10, 15 years, maybe that's a little aggressive, but within the next 20 years, everybody's going to have their own robot.
[01:27:13]  And the robot will literally make your bed for you.
[01:27:15]  It'll make your coffee for you.
[01:27:17]  It'll drive you to work.
[01:27:18]  I mean, this is an amazing future.
[01:27:20]  And by the way, I know some people are afraid of it.
[01:27:23]  I mean, they're thinking it's going to be like the Terminator.
[01:27:26]  But this is going to be the biggest invention since electricity.
[01:27:30]  The group that our guest represents is Unleash Prosperity.
[01:27:33]  Stephen Moore is the co-founder joining us for this discussion a little bit about the group Unleash Prosperity.
[01:27:39]  So this is a group that I started with Steve Forbes and Art Laugher and Larry Kudlow.
[01:27:46]  And what we try to do is promote policies that are good for the U.S. economy, that will create more prosperity for everyone.
[01:27:54]  We always say we want a rising tide that will lift all boats.
[01:27:58]  So we want everyone to get richer in this country.
[01:28:01]  And we think we're on a pretty good path right now.
[01:28:03]  Texas is next.
[01:28:04]  That's where Glenn is, Republican line.
[01:28:07]  Hi.
[01:28:08]  Good morning, C-SPIN.
[01:28:12]  I agree with Steve Moore's policies, and I watch him on Cutlow every time he's on the show.
[01:28:22]  We have, in our area here in Texas, we have five oil factories, and there's no reason to have gas, $3.35 a gallon.
[01:28:38]  You only need one grade of fuel, low-grade lead, you know, no lead gas, premium, you have three cages.
[01:28:48]  All you need is a good, medium-grade fit everybody's vehicle.
[01:28:52]  That would bring the price of gas down to about $1.25 a gallon.
[01:28:58]  We have plenty of oil here, no shortage of oil tonight whatsoever.
[01:29:03]  Five refineries here have more oil than they can process in a month.
[01:29:07]  It's stacked up in their yards.
[01:29:10]  So there's no shortage of oil here in Texas.
[01:29:14]  And as far as the economy, Trump is the best businessman you'll ever get your hands on.
[01:29:21]  He knows business inside and out.
[01:29:24]  And that's what he's doing to the country.
[01:29:27]  As far as bringing the economy back, how many years did it take to get the economy at the lowest point we are now?
[01:29:35]  What is that?
[01:29:36]  Three presidents?
[01:29:38]  Trump can't do it in four.
[01:29:40]  We're going to have to have a president to carry on his agenda for another four years at least to get all refineries back in town.
[01:29:49]  Okay, Glenn, let me stop you there.
[01:29:50]  Only because you put a lot out for the guest, but let me take his first part because I'm sure people would say to you, if we produce so much like you say, why am I still paying except the pump?
[01:29:58]  What's the correlation there?
[01:29:59]  You mean why inflation is so high?
[01:30:01]  Oh, just because you're saying if we produce so much, why are we still seeing inflated prices at the end?
[01:30:06]  Well, because, well, first of all, it's important to realize why we saw the big inflation over the last five or six years.
[01:30:14]  And there's no question about it, that we spent and borrowed $4 to $5 trillion we didn't have in Washington.
[01:30:22]  Most of that happened under Biden.
[01:30:24]  We remember they did the Build Back Better Bill and the Inflation Reduction Act and all of these multi-trillion dollar bills.
[01:30:30]  And by the way, we spent and borrowed a lot of money during COVID that we didn't have.
[01:30:34]  And one of my messages that I say every time is we can never, never, never allow the government to shut down our economy and our schools and our churches again.
[01:30:41]  That was a complete disaster and one of the great abuses of power by government in American history.
[01:30:47]  So we had, look, inflation is a very easy thing.
[01:30:51]  It's too many dollars chasing too few goods.
[01:30:53]  When you have the government spending $5 trillion, borrowing and essentially printing money to pay for it, then you're going to have runaway inflation, which is what we saw.
[01:31:03]  You know, we saw a 21% increase in prices under Biden policies.
[01:31:08]  And by the way, Trump spent a trillion dollars in his last months in office to deal with COVID.
[01:31:14]  And so now we have to cut government spending back.
[01:31:18]  And if we cut government spending back, we won't be borrowing so much.
[01:31:21]  We won't be printing so much money and prices will come down.
[01:31:24]  And I want to be sure that people understand this.
[01:31:27]  I'm not blaming just the Democrats on this.
[01:31:29]  Republicans and Democrats are both responsible for the runaway spending in Washington.
[01:31:34]  Everyone knows it's wrong.
[01:31:36]  Everyone knows we have to cut one or two trillion dollars out of our budget, but we can't get them to do it.
[01:31:42]  They're having a big fight right now about the budget in Washington on Capitol Hill right down the street here.
[01:31:47]  And nobody wants to cut government spending.
[01:31:51]  Elon Musk said we have a trillion dollars that we could cut out of the budget that's just complete fraud and duplication and abuse.
[01:31:59]  Let's do it.
[01:32:00]  I mean, we should all agree, let's get rid of that before we start talking about raising people's taxes and so on.
[01:32:05]  For all the work that Elon Musk did to find ways to cut spending, what do you think is the end result?
[01:32:10]  You know, he did identify.
[01:32:13]  Look, I salute Elon Musk, and you mentioned him, and I want to say this.
[01:32:17]  I think his idea of saying, look, I'll pay for the TSA.
[01:32:21]  You know, I don't know if you saw that.
[01:32:23]  He said, I'll pay their salaries.
[01:32:25]  That was quite a patriotic gesture.
[01:32:28]  And I think he probably would do it if it were legal for him to do it.
[01:32:31]  And not to go up on a tangent, but, you know, I've been traveling a lot lately because I'm on the road about two or three days a week.
[01:32:38]  So I'm going through airports all the time.
[01:32:42]  I want to salute the TSA agents that are still working and on the job.
[01:32:46]  Thank you, thank you, thank you.
[01:32:48]  These people are working without a paycheck, and I really think that they are amazing patriots for doing what they do.
[01:32:55]  And if it weren't for those people showing up for work, we'd have gridlock in the U.S. economy.
[01:32:59]  In recent numbers, when it comes to the economy, for the fourth quarter of last year, GDP was at 0.7%.
[01:33:06]  There were 92,000 jobs lost in February 2026, unemployment at 4.4%.
[01:33:11]  You'll remember that the 181,000 total jobs added in 2025 after those revisions.
[01:33:17]  Are those warning signs for an economy?
[01:33:19]  They are.
[01:33:19]  Yeah.
[01:33:19]  I mean, I was very disappointed by the fourth quarter number.
[01:33:22]  We thought it would be closer to 3% to 4% growth, and it came in at, I think, what was the number 1%, I think.
[01:33:27]  0.7% for the fourth quarter.
[01:33:29]  So that was a disappointing number.
[01:33:31]  One of the challenges we have in this country is that we have, it's demographics.
[01:33:38]  So we have about 11,000 Americans every day that are retiring.
[01:33:43]  By the way, I'm a baby boomer.
[01:33:44]  I was born in 1960.
[01:33:46]  So, you know, we are the biggest generation ever in terms of the number of people.
[01:33:51]  And so I'm not retiring, but a lot of people my age are retiring.
[01:33:55]  And so 11,000 people retiring every day, but we only have 8,000 entering the workforce every day just because of the demographic and the lower birth rates.
[01:34:03]  So that's going to be a challenge for the U.S. going forward because we're going to need to.
[01:34:08]  Now, that's one of the reasons immigration is important to the United States.
[01:34:12]  We need immigrants.
[01:34:13]  They're great, valuable assets to our country, but they have to come in legally.
[01:34:18]  And I think everybody agrees they have to come in legally.
[01:34:20]  So we have, by the way, that's a challenge all over the world, by the way.
[01:34:24]  Birth rates are falling catastrophically low levels.
[01:34:27]  The United States is the one country that has a demographic safety valve, which is we can import young people from Mexico and from Asia and from all over that are great contributors.
[01:34:37]  But there are challenges to the U.S. economy, no question about it.
[01:34:40]  Steve Moore joining us for this discussion.
[01:34:41]  This is in Georgia, William, Democrats line.
[01:34:44]  Hi there, you're next.
[01:34:45]  Hey, good morning, Mr. Moore.
[01:34:47]  I just wanted to make two quick points.
[01:34:51]  You talk about zero-net energy not being a practical goal, but on the other hand, you talk about how the technology has advanced even with projects that you're working with.
[01:35:04]  So to make a statement like that kind of doesn't make sense because technology changes and zero net energy is a possibility.
[01:35:14]  And the second one is about tariffs and the consumer not being paid directly.
[01:35:20]  Companies like Walmart or other manufacturers, which may or may not pass down those savings.
[01:35:28]  That right there is an admission that trickle-down economics just doesn't work.
[01:35:32]  Thank you.
[01:35:33]  Okay.
[01:35:34]  William in Georgia.
[01:35:35]  I had a little trouble hearing him.
[01:35:36]  He's saying that the tariff was it mentioned.
[01:35:38]  William is still there?
[01:35:40]  Yes, I am.
[01:35:40]  Make your point about the tariffs again, please.
[01:35:42]  I couldn't quite hear it.
[01:35:44]  Yeah, on the tariffs, you said if we have to pay back the tariffs to Walmart or any other company, there's no guarantee of the consumer receiving that.
[01:35:55]  Yep.
[01:35:56]  Goes against trickle-down.
[01:35:59]  William, thanks.
[01:35:59]  Yeah, so that's that.
[01:36:01]  I think we all agree that's a problem.
[01:36:02]  And I think even the companies agree that's going to be a problem because consumers are going to be angry if all of a sudden these big merchants, you know, like the Walmarts and the Safeways and so on, they get a big check from the government.
[01:36:16]  And there's no question that some of the tariffs were paid for passed on to the consumers, just like any tax gets passed on to consumers.
[01:36:25]  How that's going to be sorted out, I don't know.
[01:36:28]  But certainly, I think some of the companies have announced they made you discounts, they made you refunds.
[01:36:35]  It's going to be very complicated, but I think they ought to do it, and I think it would be the fair thing to do.
[01:36:40]  Is it right for a class action kind of effort?
[01:36:43]  I'm no lawyer, but if people want to find out what they're doing.
[01:36:46]  So then not legally, the law is very clear.
[01:36:49]  Whoever wrote the check to the government for the tariff, whoever paid the tax, because the tariff is a tax, they're the ones who are entitled to the refund.
[01:36:56]  That's pretty clear.
[01:36:58]  I mean, the legality of that is undisputed.
[01:37:01]  The question is: okay, so all these big merchants got $100 billion, and that's just going to be kind of a windfall to them.
[01:37:08]  And so how that gets sorted out, I don't know, but it's going to be bad public relations for some of these companies if they don't start giving some discounts or maybe they can say, okay, we're going to cut our prices by 5% next year or something like that.
[01:37:24]  Let's hear from Thomas.
[01:37:25]  Thomas is in Florida.
[01:37:26]  Republican line for Steve Moore.
[01:37:28]  Go ahead.
[01:37:30]  Yes, sir.
[01:37:31]  I got a question for you.
[01:37:34]  As a fellow Republican, will you admit that the trickle-down deal has not worked?
[01:37:40]  I'm about the same age as you, and I've seen all it has done is change millionaires to billionaires and sent our jobs to China, Mexico, India.
[01:37:54]  You know, that is the real problem with our country.
[01:37:56]  That's when things started going downhill.
[01:37:59]  And everybody, the guy named Ross Curot, remember him?
[01:38:03]  He told us all this was going to happen.
[01:38:05]  Remember that?
[01:38:08]  You know, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth here.
[01:38:13]  Need to go back and figure something else out.
[01:38:16]  Thank you.
[01:38:18]  So this is going to be a huge issue going forward about the millionaires and billionaires and the fact that you've got some people like Elon Musk.
[01:38:27]  I don't know if you've been following this, that if his wealth keeps going up, he could be the world's first trillionaire, which is kind of an amazing thing to think about.
[01:38:35]  Look, I want an economic system, and I think Donald Trump completely agrees with this, that lifts all boats, that makes everyone better off.
[01:38:42]  We saw that in the 80s under Ronald Reagan.
[01:38:45]  We've seen it in Trump's first term where middle-class incomes rose.
[01:38:50]  So I don't think anybody disparages millionaires and billionaires.
[01:38:53]  That's what's great about our country.
[01:38:55]  This is the American dream that you can build a business and you can make a lot of money and you can live very comfortably with the profits you make.
[01:39:02]  And by the way, the evidence shows very clearly economically that when someone, let's say, becomes a billionaire, like an Elon Musk or Sergi Brin, 90% of the gains that they've created for the economy go to not them themselves, but everybody else.
[01:39:23]  In other words, we're all richer because of Sergi Brin, and we're all richer because of Elon Musk and Fred Smith, who developed Federal Express.
[01:39:33]  So we need more.
[01:39:36]  In other words, our economic policy should not be to tear down the rich, but to build up the poor and make sure that we have an opportunity society that benefits everyone.
[01:39:45]  The other issue that's going on right now that's a big hot issue, Pedro, related to this is the numbers just came out by the IRS about where people are moving to and from.
[01:39:56]  And one of the problems for these blue states with high taxes on rich people like New York and California and Illinois and Massachusetts, they're being bled to death.
[01:40:05]  Not all, but a lot of the rich people are moving out of California.
[01:40:09]  They're moving out of New York.
[01:40:11]  And where are they going?
[01:40:12]  They're going to Texas.
[01:40:13]  They're going to Florida.
[01:40:14]  They're going to Tennessee.
[01:40:16]  So one piece of advice I would give to the people in California and New York and Massachusetts and Illinois: stop voting for all these people who are raising your taxes.
[01:40:25]  You're destroying your state.
[01:40:26]  It's being bled to death.
[01:40:28]  You say that in that recent analysis that you talked about tens of billions of dollars leaving and going to those states as well.
[01:40:33]  Yeah, this is the single greatest wealth transfer and migration in American history.
[01:40:40]  Blue states are shrinking, red states are growing.
[01:40:43]  So for example, you do a lot of politics at C-SPAN.
[01:40:47]  California for the last hundred years has been the fastest growing state.
[01:40:51]  You know, California may lose four to five congressional seats in the 2030 redistricting.
[01:40:57]  New York's going to lose another four to five.
[01:40:59]  So New York's number of seats are going like this.
[01:41:01]  California is going down.
[01:41:02]  Where are the states that are rising?
[01:41:04]  They're mostly the southern states and the mountain states that are doing really well.
[01:41:10]  So soak the rich doesn't work, folks, because it's not working for New York.
[01:41:14]  It's not working for California.
[01:41:15]  It's not working for Massachusetts.
[01:41:18]  And we'd be much better off lowering people's taxes and creating an environment where everyone does better.
[01:41:23]  For those going to states with lower taxes, how are those states paying for the things they have to despite the lower taxes?

=== Soak the Rich Policy Failure (09:48) ===

[01:41:29]  Okay, so that's a great question.
[01:41:30]  So let's compare New York and Florida, two of our four largest states.
[01:41:35]  New York and Florida have roughly the same population, around 20 million each.
[01:41:40]  I think Florida's a little bit bigger now, but let's, for the sake of argument, say they're exactly the same.
[01:41:44]  New York, you're not going to believe this, spends twice as much per person as Florida does.
[01:41:50]  Twice as much per person.
[01:41:52]  I've been to New York.
[01:41:53]  I've been to Florida.
[01:41:54]  I've lived in both states.
[01:41:55]  Florida has better public services than New York does, and they spend half as much.
[01:41:59]  So the solution to New York's problems and California stories, cut your budget, become more efficient in the way you spend your money, because how can Florida spend half as much money on public services than New York does?
[01:42:11]  And it's because of public employee unions and all these other things that have a lot of power and waste money.
[01:42:17]  Let's hear from Daryl.
[01:42:18]  Daryl is in North Carolina, Independent Line.
[01:42:20]  Hi, you're on.
[01:42:22]  Good morning.
[01:42:23]  First, thank you both for this topic.
[01:42:25]  It's a way for us in the public to learn about how our government works.
[01:42:31]  I had a two-part question on two things you said quickly.
[01:42:34]  First on tariffs and then on prosperity for all.
[01:42:39]  With tariffs, with the Supreme Court's ruling on tariffs, how do companies get to keep the imported products profits that they passed on to the consumer and also get tariff money back to them?
[01:42:55]  And then second, on the prosperity for all, is that what you're, are you talking about like trickle-down economics for those who are less affluent that as they invest in the American financial complex that they would grow their wealth?
[01:43:14]  Thank you.
[01:43:15]  Well, first of all, when we're talking about the states that are growing, North Carolina actually is one of the fastest growing states today.
[01:43:22]  It's just behind Texas and Florida.
[01:43:24]  And by the way, South Carolina is then another big show.
[01:43:28]  That's an example of the real spurt in economic growth in those southern regions.
[01:43:33]  Yeah, what I mean is we want a system that doesn't tear down the rich, but lifts up the poor.
[01:43:41]  And so if you look at the countries around the world or states around the world that have lower tax rates, they tend to do better because they reward work, they reward efficiency, and that's where people locate.
[01:43:55]  So there's so many things we could do, by the way, to help the poor.
[01:44:00]  I mean, the two things that are at the top of my list, if you ask me if I could wave a wand and change anything, number one is we have to start allowing every young person in America under the age of 30, instead of sending 12% of their paycheck to the black hole of Social Security, which is the worst return you'll ever get on your money, we should let people take that 12% and put it in an index fund.
[01:44:23]  The average worker today who is retiring will have $300,000 worth of Social Security benefits.
[01:44:30]  That's a ripoff.
[01:44:31]  If they've been able to put that in an index fund, they'd have about $1 million.
[01:44:35]  So we ought to do that.
[01:44:37]  That would make everybody an owner in America.
[01:44:40]  And the second thing we should probably look at doing is like a flat tax.
[01:44:44]  Just get the rates down for everybody and get rid of all the deductions, all the loopholes.
[01:44:48]  This is something I know Steve Forbes, you've had him on your show.
[01:44:51]  He's the godfather of the flat tax, but it just makes so much sense.
[01:44:55]  Why are universities tax deductible?
[01:44:57]  You know, this is one of my pet peeves.
[01:45:00]  I grew outside up in Chicago and I'm a big Northwestern football fan.
[01:45:04]  They're building an $800 million football stadium with tax-deductible dollars.
[01:45:09]  Now, look, I love college football, but should that be tax-deductible, an $800 million football stadium?
[01:45:15]  So let's broaden the base, lower the rate, and make everybody better off.
[01:45:19]  While you're on that topic, there's a piece in the Wall Street Journal about the Trump accounts that are set to take place.
[01:45:24]  Are these good ideas for the federal government to give money to newborn babies to establish these accounts?
[01:45:31]  Oh, into the Trump accounts.
[01:45:33]  So I like the idea.
[01:45:35]  You know what I love?
[01:45:36]  It's related to what I was just talking about, Social Security.
[01:45:39]  There's an old saying by Albert Einstein, the most powerful force in the universe is compound interest.
[01:45:45]  And it's so true.
[01:45:46]  So if you start, if you put, say, $5,000, I don't, I think there are a few thousand dollars.
[01:45:51]  I forget exactly how much we can put in those accounts, but you can supplement them.
[01:45:55]  So let's say you put $2,000 or $3,000 in an account for someone who's just born, and you just allow them that to accumulate and the interest on it, they're going to have like $250,000 by the time they're 25 years old.
[01:46:08]  And if they hold on until they retire, they'll have well over a million dollars.
[01:46:12]  So I like that idea.
[01:46:14]  Saving money and having a nation of investors and owners.
[01:46:18]  The other thing I love about this is I want every American.
[01:46:22]  I don't just want the top five or 10% to own stock.
[01:46:25]  I want everybody to own stock.
[01:46:26]  That way we become a nation of owners and we all have a vested interest in how do American companies.
[01:46:32]  Let's get in one more call.
[01:46:34]  This will be from Sean in Georgia, Democrats line.
[01:46:36]  Sean, hello.
[01:46:37]  That's how you know.
[01:46:38]  Thank you, C-SPAN, for allowing me to come on today.
[01:46:41]  This is my first time on, and I'm a retired veteran of the United States Navy.
[01:46:45]  I'm 64 years old.
[01:46:47]  And I just have some issues with some of the things Mr. Steven Moore has said today in World War I. One in particular is with the COVID situation.
[01:46:56]  He did not take into consideration that we're supposed to be one of the most advanced countries in the nation in all ways.
[01:47:02]  And then Trump, by the way, he deceived the country with respect to the handling of the COVID.
[01:47:08]  We had more deaths.
[01:47:10]  We had more deaths than any other third world country.
[01:47:14]  And that's what caused them to start putting people, you know, closing down the schools and everything because it got out of control here because of the misdirection that we were led to believe that there wasn't going to be anything big.
[01:47:27]  So that's why they closed the schools and everything.
[01:47:31]  And he said that we should have, we should have never done that.
[01:47:34]  But in hindsight, if you think about it, if Trump had never misled the nation on how much in danger we were, we wouldn't have had that many deaths.
[01:47:43]  And then secondly, I disagree with him also on the fact that Trump's a good businessman.
[01:47:48]  Everything that Trump has done has been to benefit himself and his family.
[01:47:52]  I have never heard of a president coming into the office in not even his first year.
[01:47:56]  His first year wasn't even completed.
[01:47:58]  And this man has already abstained for his own wealth almost $3 billion.
[01:48:03]  And then to add nepotism to it, his son-in-law, Jared, this is twice he's done this with Saudi Arabia, has gained close to $45 billion, rather, for his father's company or for their company.
[01:48:18]  Now, I don't understand why people don't have a problem with that.
[01:48:21]  Okay, I have to leave it there.
[01:48:23]  I apologize.
[01:48:23]  But thank you for calling.
[01:48:24]  Just a couple quick points.
[01:48:26]  One is that when, you know, our American stock market has gone up.
[01:48:31]  When I started in Washington in 1983, that's when I first came here, so I'm old.
[01:48:37]  You know what the Dow Jones industrial average is?
[01:48:39]  Just guess.
[01:48:40]  5,06,000.
[01:48:40]  It's 1,000.
[01:48:41]  1,000.
[01:48:43]  Well, we've fallen a bit, but for argument's sake, we reached 50,000.
[01:48:48]  So my point is, what we've seen over the last 40 years since Reagan came in through the, you know, through Clinton and now Trump is the greatest period of wealth creation in the history of civilization.
[01:48:58]  I mean, so if the next 40 years is as great as the last 40 years, we were talking about Dow 1 million.
[01:49:03]  And that didn't happen by accident.
[01:49:04]  It happened because of great policies, deregulation, lower tax rates, freer trade, all of these things.
[01:49:10]  And if we stay on that course, we're going to see an incredible amount of wealth created.
[01:49:16]  I want to make sure that that wealth is shared by everyone.
[01:49:19]  And so that's why this idea of like letting everyone own a piece of the rock in America is critical.
[01:49:24]  Second thing, and this is, I feel so strongly about this, we must learn the lesson of what happened with COVID.
[01:49:30]  COVID, we know what happened because we can compare states that locked down their economy and states that didn't.
[01:49:38]  And states that locked down their economy, closed down their businesses, closed down their schools.
[01:49:44]  The damage that that has done to those states and those children is unforgivable.
[01:49:50]  Shutting down the schools for a year, those kids, a lot of those kids will never, ever be able to make that up.
[01:49:56]  And they're going to lose trillions of dollars of their wages.
[01:49:59]  So unforgivable teachers union shut down our schools.
[01:50:03]  And we know, by the way, from the health outcomes, if we compare what happened with the states that opened, like Florida and Texas and Tennessee, versus the states that closed down for a year, there was no difference in the death rate.
[01:50:14]  So lockdowns did not save lives.
[01:50:17]  In fact, it looks like three times more people died from the negative effects from lockdowns.
[01:50:23]  So it's important because we cannot ever let the government do that again.
[01:50:27]  It was such an abuse of power.
[01:50:29]  But overall, look, we're going to get out of this problem we have right now.
[01:50:32]  We're going to get this thing resolved in the Middle East, hopefully victoriously, and get rid of this evil regime.
[01:50:38]  And if that happens, we could see, think about this.
[01:50:41]  Last point.
[01:50:43]  We liberated Venezuela.
[01:50:45]  Amazing.
[01:50:45]  We got rid of an evil, evil regime, and they're going to have peace and freedom and prosperity in Venezuela.
[01:50:51]  Hopefully that happens in Iran.
[01:50:53]  But how about Cuba?
[01:50:55]  I mean, we could see Cuba turn to freedom for the first time in 60 years.
[01:50:59]  Cuba, I did tell Trump this when I visited him.
[01:51:02]  I said, Mr. President, if you can liberate Cuba, not militarily, but just keeping the pressure on, Cuba could be as rich as Hong Kong.
[01:51:09]  So maybe Trump's legacy could be a spreading of freedom and free markets around the world, and that would be an amazing thing.

=== Democracy Unfiltered Open Forum (02:58) ===

[01:51:17]  The website for our guest, Unleash Prosperity, Committee2UnleashProsperity.com.
[01:51:22]  Steve Moore, the co-founder.
[01:51:24]  Thanks for coming on.
[01:51:25]  Thank you, Pedro.
[01:51:26]  Thank you to C-SPAN.
[01:51:27]  Later on in the program, we'll get a perspective on foreign policy from the Council on Foreign Relations James Lindsay on what's going on in Iran.
[01:51:35]  But first, you can participate in open forum: 202-748-8000 for Democrats, Republicans, 202-748-8001.
[01:51:43]  And Independents, 202-748-8002.
[01:51:46]  Call in now.
[01:51:47]  We'll take those calls when Washington Journal continues.
[01:52:00]  Stan is as unbiased as you can get.
[01:52:04]  You are so fair.
[01:52:05]  I don't know how anybody can say otherwise.
[01:52:07]  You guys do the most important work for everyone in this country.
[01:52:12]  I love C-SPAN because I get to hear all the voices.
[01:52:15]  You bring these divergent viewpoints and you present both sides of an issue and you allow people to make up their own minds.
[01:52:22]  I absolutely love C-SPAN.
[01:52:24]  I love to hear both sides.
[01:52:26]  I've watched C-SPAN every morning and it is unbiased.
[01:52:29]  And you bring in factual information for the callers to understand where they are in their comments.
[01:52:36]  It's probably the only place that we can hear honest opinion of Americans across the country.
[01:52:41]  You guys at C-SPAN are doing such a wonderful job of allowing free exchange of ideas without a lot of interruptions.
[01:52:49]  Thank you, C-SPAN, for being a light in the dark.
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[01:53:00]  It's a process.
[01:53:01]  A process shaped by leaders elected to the highest offices and entrusted to a select few with guarding its basic principles.
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[01:53:14]  Democracy in real time.
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[01:53:59]  Washington Journal continues.
[01:54:01]  This is the part of the program we call Open Forum.
[01:54:04]  And if you want to participate, two general rules of the road, pick the line that best represents you.
[01:54:09]  And if you've called us in the last 30 days, if you can hold off from doing so today, we appreciate it.

=== Reagan Era Tax Rate Comparisons (03:48) ===

[01:54:16]  We talked earlier on the program about Mark Wayne Mullen becoming the next head of the Department of Homeland Security, News Nation reporting, and adding on the fact that one of the things he'll face is that partial shutdown, which we also talked about that took place since February 14th.
[01:54:31]  It adds that Mr. Mullins, Secretary Mullins' swearing-in ceremony, Secretary-elect Mullins' swearing-in ceremony is scheduled for 1:30 this afternoon in the Oval Office at the White House.
[01:54:43]  So stay tuned to us as that takes place and other things taking place in Washington.
[01:54:48]  As always, you can comment about these things politically when it comes to open forum.
[01:54:54]  Let's start with John in Utah, Republican line.
[01:54:58]  Good morning.
[01:54:59]  Good morning.
[01:55:00]  Thanks for taking my call.
[01:55:02]  I wish I would have got on with the previous guest when he started talking about robots in every home.
[01:55:08]  Seriously, is this something America wants, a robot in every home?
[01:55:13]  I'm totally creeped out by that.
[01:55:15]  I don't know how other people feel about that.
[01:55:17]  You know, is this, I guess, you know, is this something that is coming from the American people?
[01:55:21]  Like, we're demanding robots in the House.
[01:55:24]  The family is already disintegrated.
[01:55:26]  The country's crumbling apart, really, truly.
[01:55:29]  Take a look.
[01:55:30]  And now they want to bring robots in.
[01:55:32]  So it's kind of crazy.
[01:55:33]  You know, secondly, is talking about the tax rates before.
[01:55:39]  I used to believe we should be, you know, low tax, but the way all these billionaires are buying up the government, they're truly buying up the government.
[01:55:47]  I think we need to go back to something truly higher, maybe where it was in the 50s and 60s, maybe at 90% over a certain level, so the people can run this country again.
[01:55:57]  Because look what's going on.
[01:56:00]  As a Republican, as a Republican, how did you come to that point of view?
[01:56:04]  Because now our country is gone.
[01:56:06]  I grew up, I'm 64.
[01:56:08]  The country was, I remember in the 70s and 60s, we lived free.
[01:56:12]  I remember going and picking up my dad at Orange County Airport when he came in from a business trip.
[01:56:17]  You know, it was a beautiful way to live.
[01:56:20]  Our country's gone.
[01:56:21]  Everything is regulated.
[01:56:23]  Everything is controlled.
[01:56:24]  Everything's got a profit center to it.
[01:56:26]  And it's wrong.
[01:56:27]  We used to be more of a family-oriented company, but now it's all materialistic because everything is about money.
[01:56:33]  So let's all this money continue going to these trillionaires now.
[01:56:36]  The government will be bought and paid for by them.
[01:56:39]  That's why there's no representation.
[01:56:41]  We have no representative government anymore.
[01:56:44]  Okay.
[01:56:44]  Okay, that's John in Utah.
[01:56:46]  Let's go to Melvin and Florida, Democrats line on this open forum.
[01:56:49]  You're next up.
[01:56:51]  Yes, I thank you for taking my call.
[01:56:53]  And, you know, I'm somewhat surprised about what y'all let Stephen Moore do once he comes on.
[01:57:00]  I've been listening to C-SPAN, and you probably remember me because I think you used to block me quite a few times when I was calling in.
[01:57:08]  I've been listening since you started.
[01:57:10]  I was also in the first district and you were in my sector at the time.
[01:57:15]  However, he was talking about Reagan.
[01:57:17]  Reagan did.
[01:57:18]  Reagan tripled the debt and the deficit, okay, and left the country in a recession.
[01:57:23]  Trump tripled, he doubled the debt that a normal president would do in one term.
[01:57:31]  And he did.
[01:57:32]  And again, it was a left the thing, left the country in recession.
[01:57:37]  And every Republican president since Reagan, in through Trump, when they left office, they left the country in a recession.
[01:57:47]  It's in there.
[01:57:48]  I don't know why you all do not, when he sits up and tells these ridiculous stories about what he did and how the company was improving, you should sit up there and ask him to explain how those situations would happen when he was working with Reagan and basically with Trump in his first term.

=== Save America Act Funding Discussions (09:19) ===

[01:58:05]  It's absolutely ridiculous to keep telling people, let them believe that he's telling the truth.
[01:58:09]  It was lies.
[01:58:10]  They were the worst two and spended money in the history since Reagan.
[01:58:14]  Okay.
[01:58:14]  Mike in Miami, Independent Line.
[01:58:17]  Hi there.
[01:58:18]  Doing today, Pedro.
[01:58:19]  Good to see you, sir.
[01:58:20]  Been watching C-Pan almost since its inception.
[01:58:22]  The reason I call is because why is it that you, sir, with all due respect, when callers call in, ask your guests on the show a question?
[01:58:30]  They don't answer the question and you don't say anything.
[01:58:32]  You just let them go on and ramble about what they want to talk about.
[01:58:35]  And I don't think that's fair.
[01:58:36]  God bless C-SPAN.
[01:58:37]  God bless America.
[01:58:39]  Okay, Mike in Miami, a couple of Supreme Court stories for you.
[01:58:41]  The Washington Times.
[01:58:43]  This is from a recent case that was heard Monday.
[01:58:45]  Several Supreme Court justices expressed skepticism Monday about states that allow ballots to be received and counted days after Election Day, though they worried about where to draw the line and whether tossing out late arriving ballots would also eliminate early voting in a specific case before the justices.
[01:59:02]  Ballots in Mississippi can be counted and received up to five days after Election Day, as long as they were mailed or sent by a quote common carrier, such as FedEx by Election Day.
[01:59:12]  Opponents said that violates the idea that an election is consummated on Election Day.
[01:59:17]  Quote, if somebody in Gulfport asked the day after the election, is the election over?
[01:59:21]  The common sense answer is no, it's not.
[01:59:23]  The ballots are still coming in, and someone asks who won.
[01:59:26]  The truthful answer is we don't know yet.
[01:59:28]  That was Paul Clement who made that case before the court yesterday.
[01:59:31]  There's also a story in the USA Today about a court, the Supreme Court hearing today.
[01:59:38]  This is from Maureen Grabif this morning saying that as the battle over immigration continues to royal the country, the Supreme Court on March 24th today will debate whether the federal government can turn back asylum seekers at the U.S.-Mexican border.
[01:59:53]  The metering practice used by Democratic and Republican administrations alike to manage the number of migrants who can claim asylum each day is not being used now, but the Trump administration wants the option to deploy it, calling a policy a quote critical tool for addressing border surges.
[02:00:08]  You can see that court oral argument, by the way, you can hear that court oral argument as the Supreme Court provides audio for us.
[02:00:16]  And that will be on C-SPAN 3 starting at 11 o'clock today.
[02:00:20]  You can also watch and follow along on our app at C-SPANNOW and our website at c-span.org.
[02:00:28]  Terry in Virginia, Republican line.
[02:00:31]  Good morning.
[02:00:34]  Good morning, America.
[02:00:36]  Well, look, the first thing I would like to state is there are no Democrats in the United States today.
[02:00:46]  That Democrat Party died on a mild December day in 1963 when they assassinated their very own president because he did not support their ideology.
[02:01:01]  Okay.
[02:01:03]  So next, the Democrats are going to, or the ones that call themselves Democrats, are going to oppose Donald Trump on anything he wants to do.
[02:01:15]  If Donald Trump is the least bit successful in anything, it makes them look bad.
[02:01:22]  So they, anything they can do, they did it in his first term, they are doing it again.
[02:01:29]  They are going to stand in his way anyway and every way they can and lie and lie and lie.
[02:01:38]  Okay, another story related to immigration in the New York Times this morning.
[02:01:41]  The headline, this is where the New York Times is analyzing data where ICE has been most active this year.
[02:01:48]  The reporting says that the pace of ICE arrests nationwide has topped 1,100 per day on average in 2026, far higher than the rate last spring of roughly 600 arrests per day, despite a slight dip in recent weeks.
[02:02:03]  Some places that did not have high-profile ICE operations this year, like Florida and San Antonio, have still seen high and settling increasing numbers of arrests.
[02:02:12]  In other areas like Los Angeles and Chicago that were targeted by ICE with aggressive enforcement operations last year, the number of arrests has fallen steeply in recent months.
[02:02:22]  And in some areas, notably many places with so-called sanctuary policies in place, the arrest rate is flat or only up slightly.
[02:02:30]  There's more to this analysis.
[02:02:31]  You can find it online at the New York Times website.
[02:02:34]  Diane, up next, Democrats Line joins us from Ohio.
[02:02:38]  Go ahead.
[02:02:39]  Good morning, Pedro.
[02:02:41]  First of all, I want to go back to the original question about who's at fault.
[02:02:47]  It is definitely the Republicans.
[02:02:49]  They don't care and they're afraid of Trump.
[02:02:54]  Trump has a very big problem, and that is he can't think straight.
[02:03:02]  He thinks as though people should listen to everything he says, and he lies every time he opens his mouth.
[02:03:11]  Second of all, about the SAVE Act.
[02:03:14]  Okay, I'm a poll taker.
[02:03:17]  And when we have to have like an in-service every time the election comes up in the state of Ohio, in the back of our driver's license, it states whether or not you are a non-citizen.
[02:03:36]  And in this idea of the SAVE Act, I have to get my birth certificate again.
[02:03:43]  I'll somehow find it.
[02:03:45]  Then I have to get my marriage license.
[02:03:50]  This is a lot of money.
[02:03:51]  People can't afford this.
[02:03:54]  And yet he thinks it's nothing.
[02:03:57]  Sure, $25 for a birth certificate to him is like a penny.
[02:04:02]  To me, I am a retired state employee.
[02:04:06]  And yes, I get more than most Social Security recipients of, but it's still a lot of money.
[02:04:14]  That could be a week's worth of food.
[02:04:17]  We can't allow him to keep dictating to us.
[02:04:22]  And we're going to fail if we do.
[02:04:25]  Thank you, Pedro.
[02:04:26]  Have a good day.
[02:04:27]  Diane in Ohio, the Senate Minority Leader in the New York Times opinion section today, has a piece on the Save America Act, which we talked about earlier, is now being perhaps put into the discussions when it comes to funding of the partial, the restoring of partial funding at the Homeland Security.
[02:04:46]  What the Save America Act would really do.
[02:04:48]  Senator Schumer writing that this is not about stopping widespread voter fraud, which is a myth pushed by Republicans in the first place.
[02:04:54]  Rather, it's about giving the Department of Homeland Security power to choose who can vote.
[02:04:59]  Don't forget that Christy Noam, the disgraced former secretary of the department, said it was working proactively to make sure that, quote, we have the right people voting, electing the right leaders to lead this country.
[02:05:10]  Senator Schumer making more thoughts.
[02:05:12]  You can read them online.
[02:05:13]  Let's go to Dave, Independent Line.
[02:05:15]  He is in Virginia and Middletown, Virginia.
[02:05:20]  Dave in Middletown, Virginia.
[02:05:25]  One more time for Dave.
[02:05:29]  Dan is joining us from Florida, Republican Line.
[02:05:33]  Dan, hello.
[02:05:35]  Hello.
[02:05:36]  Good morning.
[02:05:37]  Good morning.
[02:05:38]  Well, you know, listening to my various friends, listening to TV, I just want to make the comment that I feel like I can summarize the debates that we have in discussing politics and something for us to step back and think about would be,
[02:05:57]  let's see, equal opportunity versus equity, the role of government versus the role of charities and religions, and country sovereignty versus global order.
[02:06:15]  And on those topics, when I hear the details of the discussions, I always come back to those.
[02:06:22]  And I wish we could have more mature conversations about those concepts before we got into the details.
[02:06:33]  And I think we would have a lot more friendly conversations.
[02:06:35]  I mean, I hear many conversations here very, very informative for me.
[02:06:40]  So I do appreciate C-SPAN.
[02:06:41]  But I just thought I'd make my comment on those, at least my view of those fraud-bra topics that I think everything else is falling under.
[02:06:50]  Thank you for taking my call.
[02:06:52]  Dan in Florida, the president was in Memphis, Tennessee yesterday in part to talk about crime in the state, saying that the White House claimed his task force has made more than 7,000 arrests since the surge there, seizing about 1,200 firearms, locking up 44 suspected killers.
[02:07:09]  The city is coming back.
[02:07:10]  It's stronger than any other city in the country because of what has happened with crime.
[02:07:14]  The story from the Post also adding that local officials, advocates, and data suggest the more complicated picture violent crime rates were falling well before the surge in line with national trends.

=== White House Task Force Arrests (04:45) ===

[02:07:24]  And city residents question whether the strategy would produce lasting gains or primarily serve short-term political goals.
[02:07:31]  It was also while the president was in Memphis that he spoke about the status of talks between the United States and Iran.
[02:07:38]  Here's a portion of that from yesterday.
[02:07:40]  As I announced earlier, based on preliminary conversations between the United States and Iran over the past two days, I've directed the Department of War to temporarily postpone planned strikes against major energy and electricity targets in Iran.
[02:07:56]  They have very, very big, new, actually and very expensive billions of dollars it costs to build them one missile, one of our powerful ones, and it comes down to the ground like it was made out of dust.
[02:08:10]  But to determine whether a broader agreement can be reached, we've had very good discussions, very, very good discussions.
[02:08:16]  And you have to understand, I know my whole life has been in negotiation, but with Iran, we've been negotiating for a long time.
[02:08:24]  And this time, they mean business.
[02:08:27]  And it's only because of the great job that our military did is the reason they mean business.
[02:08:32]  They want to settle, and we're going to get it done, I hope.
[02:08:39]  So hopefully this will be possible.
[02:08:43]  But no matter what, we'll ensure that Iran never obtains a nuclear weapon.
[02:08:47]  They can't have a nuclear weapon.
[02:08:49]  They would have had one if we allowed the Obama deal to stand.
[02:08:54]  That was the Iran nuclear deal they called it.
[02:08:56]  They would have had one.
[02:08:57]  Marsha III.
[02:08:59]  Well, I tell you what, Martha, we would have nuclear weapons up there when, would you say, two years ago, three years ago, four years ago, we would have been in a position that nobody wants to be in.
[02:09:13]  We won't allow ourselves to be in that position.
[02:09:17]  The President from yesterday, let's hear from William, Democrats line in Georgia.
[02:09:21]  Hello.
[02:09:23]  Hello.
[02:09:26]  I can't understand why the American people support Trump when he is a crook from the world go.
[02:09:36]  And our Congressman Austin Scott ain't supporting his district.
[02:09:44]  And I can't understand why the Republican Party is supporting the crook.
[02:09:52]  And one that says he's a Christian, he's not a Christian from the word go.
[02:09:58]  That's all I have to say.
[02:10:00]  Okay.
[02:10:00]  William in Georgia.
[02:10:02]  The Washington Post reports under the headline in a new pilot program, postal carriers will double as census takers.
[02:10:10]  This is by Mike Schneider and Susan Haig saying that starting in June, dozens of postal carriers in Spartanburg, South Carolina, and Huntsville, Alabama will ask personal questions about race, ethnicity, and the relationships of residents and households that have yet to respond to a test census questionnaire.
[02:10:26]  Invitations to respond to the test online go out to 154,600 residents in both cities starting in May 1st, according to the new details from the Census Bureau.
[02:10:36]  The practice is meant to try out new methods for the once-in-a-decade census, which determines political power and the distribution of federal funds.
[02:10:45]  It quotes Bruce Renfro, the president of the National Association of Letter Carriers, quote, they typically think that it's kind of a cool thing that they're in a little bit of a guinea pig.
[02:10:55]  More there at the Washington Post.
[02:10:57]  Let's hear from a Wisconsinite.
[02:11:00]  This is Jim.
[02:11:01]  Jim, Republican line.
[02:11:02]  Hello.
[02:11:03]  Oh, hi.
[02:11:04]  Good morning.
[02:11:04]  Thank you for taking my call.
[02:11:08]  Just wanted to comment on two things.
[02:11:10]  You know, the United States had a lot of COVID deaths.
[02:11:14]  I think we had record numbers compared to other countries, even though other countries have much more population.
[02:11:21]  But I think weren't those statistics skewed by the fact that hospitals, if a person was, let's say they were admitted for gunshot and they ran the blood test on him and they found that he had COVID, that person had, the victim had COVID, and then that person died, it was recorded as a COVID death rather than a murder.
[02:11:49]  And because hospitals got extra money for COVID patients.
[02:11:56]  Jim, are you there?
[02:11:59]  Oh, I think he's gone.
[02:12:01]  Let's go to Tim.
[02:12:02]  Tim in Maryland, Independent Line.
[02:12:04]  Hi.
[02:12:05]  Hi.
[02:12:06]  So, you know, I'm not a general or anything, but I know this much.

=== Cabinet Members on Military Housing (02:20) ===

[02:12:10]  If we just, what's going on right now with Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, that's a plan.
[02:12:16]  You can tell.
[02:12:17]  It makes sense or not.
[02:12:19]  It doesn't matter.
[02:12:19]  We're not going to stop it.
[02:12:20]  It would be over a lot quicker and probably with a lot better results if everybody just got behind what we're doing, if you're an American anyway.
[02:12:30]  And if you can't get behind it, just shut up.
[02:12:32]  Let us take care of business, get it over with.
[02:12:34]  The faster it's done, the less lives will be lost.
[02:12:38]  That's what we need to do.
[02:12:39]  We need to stand together and get behind our commander-in-chief.
[02:12:42]  And same with the European nations.
[02:12:44]  These people are just really weak right now, and it's very obvious.
[02:12:49]  And we just need to put, we need to not half-step.
[02:12:52]  Go out there, kick it, butt, and get it over with.
[02:12:55]  And that's all I have to say.
[02:12:56]  I haven't listened to anything offline.
[02:12:59]  The New York Times this morning takes a look at cabinet members and the members of the president's team that live on military housing.
[02:13:07]  This is from today's paper saying that Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Defense Secretary Pete Hexaf are neighbors living in a row of stately homes at Fort McNair, a military installation that sits on a peninsula where the Potomac and Anacostia Rivers meet.
[02:13:21]  Their homes are usually reserved for high-ranking generals.
[02:13:24]  They live not far from the site where four conspirators of President Abraham Lincoln's assassination were executed in 1865 across the water.
[02:13:32]  Joint base Anacostia Boyling.
[02:13:34]  Christy Noam, the Homeland Security Secretary, lives in a grand home previously designed for a Coast Guard commandant.
[02:13:40]  She's expected to leave her housing by the end of the month when her tumultuous tenure overseeing the Department of Homeland Security ends.
[02:13:48]  And it adds that all told, at least a half dozen senior Trump administration officials are living in military housing in the Washington area.
[02:13:55]  They include Attorney General Pambondi.
[02:13:58]  She is one of the currently dealing with a flooded basement, as well as Stephen Miller, President Trump's deputy chief of staff.
[02:14:04]  This adding that when it comes to Mr. Hagseff, he paid $4,655.70 each month last year to live in his home called Quarters 8 along General's Row at Fort McNair.
[02:14:14]  According to the Pentagon, the home is usually reserved for the Army's Vice Chief of Staff.
[02:14:18]  More there if you're interested in learning more about that at the New York Times.
[02:14:23]  Paulette, Paulette, New York, Democrats line.
[02:14:26]  Hello.
[02:14:28]  Hi.
[02:14:29]  Thank you for taking that call.

=== Hagseff Travel Expenses Revealed (04:50) ===

[02:14:30]  I did a little research between when Stephen Moore was on responding to commentators, and one of the commentators called in and was talking about COVID under Trump.
[02:14:44]  And being from New York, we were fairly inundated with what happened.
[02:14:52]  And so I looked back through COVID actually was recognized in October of 2019 at the military games in and announced that there was COVID to the World Health December 31, 2019.
[02:15:09]  So we knew that there was COVID and people dying from this strange disease.
[02:15:17]  It wasn't really until January 31 that Trump started limiting immigration.
[02:15:27]  And in the meantime, he actually slashed CDC staff by two-thirds in 2019 because they didn't want to fund U.S. funding to health.
[02:15:46]  And I think Americans really should pay attention to how much impact Republicans had by cutting back our health.
[02:15:55]  And the CDC and the National Institute of Health are infectious diseases.
[02:16:04]  And we should have known a lot more earlier.
[02:16:06]  And Trump was afraid to tell the United States that there was a disease, unlike Obama, who said COVID or Ebola and Zika, they made warnings about Zika, and Florida was upset because pregnant women were afraid to go there.
[02:16:26]  Okay.
[02:16:27]  Jim in Florida, Independent Line.
[02:16:30]  Hello.
[02:16:31]  Hi, Jim.
[02:16:33]  Just response to the guy called earlier saying that, you know, there's a plan and we should just get out of the way and let them do their thing.
[02:16:41]  I'm wondering how that ruled in Nazi Germany.
[02:16:45]  You know, I mean, Hitler had a plan.
[02:16:48]  Maybe they should have just gotten out of his way and let him do his thing.
[02:16:52]  Not the way to run America.
[02:16:54]  I'm sorry.
[02:16:56]  Thanks for the time.
[02:16:57]  Jim in Florida there, the USA Today, highlights a story saying that a new coin, a gold coin featuring the president's likeness, is in the works.
[02:17:06]  This is the story this morning by Carissa Waddick saying that the Commission of Fine Arts, an advisory board whose members were handpicked by the president, approved the general design on March 19th for a gold commemorative coin emblazoned with the president's image.
[02:17:20]  Separately, the Treasury has said it plans to issue a $1 Trump coin.
[02:17:24]  The Fine Arts Commission approved in January despite protests from Democrats and coin enthusiasts who say the move saturates long-standing norms.
[02:17:32]  The commemorative coin features a picture taken by the chief White House photographer of Trump leaning over the resolute desk, a photo on display in the Smithsonian's National Portrait Gallery.
[02:17:41]  The U.S. Mint did not respond to a request for a comment on how much the coins would cost.
[02:17:46]  Others on the agency's website, others on the agency's website, sell for thousands of dollars.
[02:17:53]  There's the projected image of what this coin might look like.
[02:17:57]  You can read more at USA Today.
[02:17:59]  Let's go to Susan.
[02:18:01]  Susan in South Carolina.
[02:18:03]  Hello, Independent Line.
[02:18:05]  Yes, good morning.
[02:18:06]  I was just wondering if anyone ever did a study on how much Trump's travel has cost the taxpayers.
[02:18:14]  Since he seems to be going down to Ma-a-Lago every weekend, I'm just wondering how much it costs for security.
[02:18:22]  And is he making any money off his hotel since I believe the press and maybe the Social Secret Service would have to be staying somewhere to protect him and his family.
[02:18:36]  So I'm just wondering if there's any idea of how much he has used the taxpayers' money on his travel, since he always used to complain about Obama going to Hawaii and traveling.
[02:18:50]  President Biden traveled to Delaware quite frequently.
[02:18:52]  Did you have concerns then as well?
[02:18:55]  Well, yes, I did because it's my money.
[02:18:58]  It's our money that's being used for all his travel.
[02:19:02]  And I don't know how many times Biden left.
[02:19:05]  I never did the research, but I just seem to know every weekend on TV, you see Trump out there golfing.
[02:19:13]  And what about his family?
[02:19:15]  Secret Service still protects his family also.
[02:19:18]  I was just wondering how much is that costing us.

=== Strait of Hormuz and Iran Demands (07:50) ===

[02:19:21]  Okay.
[02:19:21]  Thank you very much.
[02:19:22]  One more call, and this will be from Scott in New York, Independent Line.
[02:19:27]  Pedro, I'm going to go back way back to when Obama was in office and I called up when cannabis was first getting legalized in America.
[02:19:36]  And we talked about cannabis a little bit, but I talked about how we needed to go to a cannabis diesel.
[02:19:41]  And if we would have gone to cannabis diesel, we would be self-sufficient and no longer be slaves to the oil.
[02:19:48]  If 10 years ago, 15 years ago, somebody would have listened to me.
[02:19:52]  Right now, we wouldn't be having no problems with Iran.
[02:19:55]  We would have solved the problem.
[02:19:57]  We need to quit being slaves to the old oil.
[02:20:00]  We can go to cannabis diesel fuel, run it in our diesel motors with no modification.
[02:20:06]  Our farmers can make money.
[02:20:09]  We can fire factories up.
[02:20:10]  We can do a trillion dollars in total turnaround.
[02:20:14]  Let's start getting along instead of fighting with each other.
[02:20:18]  God bless the human race in all of the world, not just America.
[02:20:22]  Okay.
[02:20:23]  Scott in New York, finishing off this round of open forum.
[02:20:26]  Thanks for giving us your calls and your time.
[02:20:28]  We'll finish the program with the discussion, taking a look at foreign policy matters when it comes to the Iran conflict.
[02:20:34]  The Council on Foreign Relations, James Lindsay, joining us for that.
[02:20:37]  He's also the host of the President's Inbox Podcast.
[02:20:40]  We'll talk about those things when Washington Journal continues.
[02:21:00]  Best ideas and best practices can be found anywhere.
[02:21:03]  We have to listen so we can govern better.
[02:21:05]  Democracy depends on heavy doses of civility.
[02:21:08]  You can fight and still be friendly.
[02:21:11]  Bridging the divide in American politics.
[02:21:13]  You know, you may not agree with the Democrat on everything, but you can find areas where you do agree.
[02:21:17]  He's a pretty likable guy as well.
[02:21:18]  Chris Coons and I are actually friends.
[02:21:20]  He votes wrong all the time, but we're actually friends.
[02:21:23]  The horrible secret that Scott and I have is that we actually respect each other.
[02:21:26]  We all don't hate each other.
[02:21:27]  You two actually kind of like each other.
[02:21:29]  These are the kinds of secrets we'd like to expose.
[02:21:32]  It's nice to be with a member who knows what they're talking about.
[02:21:34]  Les did agree to the civility, all right?
[02:21:37]  He owes my son $10 from a bet.
[02:21:41]  Fork it over.
[02:21:42]  That's fighting words right there.
[02:21:43]  I'm glad I'm not in charge of it.
[02:21:45]  I'm thrilled to be on the show with him.
[02:21:47]  There are not shows like this, right?
[02:21:49]  Incentivizing that relationship.
[02:21:51]  ceasefire friday nights on c-span get c-span wherever you are with c-span now our free mobile video app that puts you at the center of democracy live and on demand Keep up with the day's biggest events with live streams of floor proceedings and hearings from the U.S. Congress, White House events, the courts, campaigns, and more from the world of politics.
[02:22:21]  All at your fingertips.
[02:22:23]  Catch the latest episodes of Washington Journal.
[02:22:26]  Find scheduling information for C-SPAN's TV and radio networks, plus a variety of compelling podcasts.
[02:22:32]  The C-SPAN Now app is available at the Apple Store and Google Play.
[02:22:37]  Download it for free today.
[02:22:38]  C-SPAN, Democracy Unfiltered.
[02:22:46]  Washington Journal continues.
[02:22:48]  James Linzay joining us.
[02:22:49]  He's with the Council of Foreign Relations.
[02:22:51]  He's a senior fellow in foreign policy.
[02:22:53]  He is also the host of the President's Inbox podcast, here to talk about the current news when it comes to Iran.
[02:23:00]  Good morning to you, sir.
[02:23:01]  Good morning, Pedro.
[02:23:02]  Thank you for having me.
[02:23:03]  When you see the headlines this morning about the supposed negotiations going back and forth with Iran, what goes through your mind?
[02:23:09]  The words wait and see.
[02:23:11]  It's not at all clear that we really do have in-depth negotiations going on.
[02:23:16]  It's not clear who can negotiate on behalf of Iran and what they're willing to give.
[02:23:21]  And I think in this case and a lot of other things, you can't rush to the end of the movie.
[02:23:26]  You have to sort of wait to see how things unfold.
[02:23:29]  Is even negotiating, do you think negotiations are possible at this point?
[02:23:33]  Continue the ongoing conflict, and how does that complicate things?
[02:23:36]  Well, negotiations are always possible.
[02:23:38]  Again, we don't have real good insight into, one, who is running the Islamic Republic of Iran, and number two, what their bottom line is.
[02:23:47]  And, you know, we look at the war from our vantage point in terms of the tactical success of the U.S. military in being able to hit targets in Iran.
[02:23:56]  But the other part of the equation is how do the Iranians assess their position?
[02:24:02]  Are they really beaten back, or do they believe that by shutting down the strait of Hormuz, they have gained the upper hand in this conflict?
[02:24:11]  And again, that's the hard part that we don't have a lot of transparency into.
[02:24:15]  If that's the hard part, what are the questions or at least things to consider as we think through these things to determine what the Iranians are communicating?
[02:24:22]  Well, I think for the administration, the big question is: do you go deeper in or do you try to find an off-ramp?
[02:24:27]  Again, there's sort of the idea that you're in for a penny in for a pound, that it would be more dangerous to take the foot off the gas pedal right now.
[02:24:38]  On the other hand, there's the old adage that you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
[02:24:43]  And I think the real test of statesmanship is being able to figure out which situation you're in, the one that requires you to soldier on, or the one that requires you to find a way out.
[02:24:54]  When it comes to determining that, the president's frontrunners are his son-in-law and Steve Wyckoff.
[02:25:01]  Are those the right people to lead this, or should there be more activity from the State Department on these things?
[02:25:07]  Well, that's always the privilege of the president to decide who he wants to have negotiate for him, because the president, at the end of the day, has to rely on, be confident in, the people who are negotiating on his behalf.
[02:25:19]  Obviously, one of the weaknesses of relying on your son-in-law and on a golfing buddy is that they don't have a great deal of depth in terms of the specifics, particularly regarding the nuclear program.
[02:25:32]  My sense is that they are, to some extent, drawing on expertise in the State Department and in the Defense Department.
[02:25:39]  But again, at this point, it's not clear what kind of negotiations you can really have, because again, it's not clear who's running Iran and what their demands are likely to be.
[02:25:50]  And so we sort of have to, I think, have a great deal of humility and a bit of caution as we sort of try to process the news right now, because there's a lot that we probably don't know.
[02:25:59]  Elaborate on that last point, the humility and caution.
[02:26:02]  Well, again, I think there's a tendency to sort of want to make predictions about what is happening.
[02:26:06]  And I think that's a real risky thing here, because there's a lot of contingencies here, a lot of things that are interconnected.
[02:26:14]  And we don't, again, have real good insight into what the Iranians are thinking or who matters in Iran.
[02:26:19]  Again, going into this war, there was a sense that the use of military force could prompt regime change, that people in Iran would rise up and overthrow their leadership.
[02:26:30]  We haven't seen any of that so far, in good part because the people don't have arms, and the government does.
[02:26:38]  And while these attacks have killed a number of leaders in Iran, there are more leaders to take their place, and they have weapons and have been able to maintain their control over the people of Iran.
[02:26:52]  But imagine if all of a sudden there's a division that takes place in Iran, there's a coup, and someone else takes over and is willing to negotiate with the United States.
[02:27:01]  You go in a very different direction than if hardliners maintain control and simply say, we are not going to bargain with the United States.
[02:27:10]  Our guest is with us until 10 o'clock.

=== War Consequences for United States (15:26) ===

[02:27:12]  And if you have questions about the latest concerning Iran, give us a call on the lines, 202748-8000 for Democrats, 202748-8001 for Republicans, and Independents, 202-748-8002.
[02:27:26]  You can text us your questions or comments at 202-748-8003.
[02:27:30]  You mentioned the Strait of Hormuz.
[02:27:32]  Is that the center point right now?
[02:27:33]  And what's the important thing to know, or at least the question to ask about the current operations involving that?
[02:27:39]  Well, the big question with the Strait of Hormuz is when is it going to reopen?
[02:27:42]  You're talking about a narrow strait.
[02:27:44]  It's about 20 miles wide through which one-fifth of the world's oil typically passed on every day.
[02:27:52]  That's been shut off to a very large extent, and that begins to have big ripple effects.
[02:27:57]  A number of countries, think Japan, for example, get most or all of their oil out of the Middle East.
[02:28:03]  They depend upon those shipments.
[02:28:05]  You cut it off.
[02:28:06]  All of a sudden, their economies are really damaged.
[02:28:09]  And again, the ripple effect is broader than that, because if you're buying parts from the Japanese for your own economy and the Japanese are in trouble, all of a sudden you begin to be in trouble.
[02:28:21]  One of the other things I think we aren't paying enough attention to is the ripple effects that come from higher oil prices and fertilizer prices.
[02:28:29]  In the northern hemisphere, we're about to enter the planting season.
[02:28:34]  Most modern agriculture relies heavily on fertilizers.
[02:28:37]  Fertilizers come from fossil fuels.
[02:28:40]  If that's cut off or the prices go way up, maybe you get less planting.
[02:28:44]  Now, if it's a true bumper crop this year, maybe that's not an issue.
[02:28:48]  But if you get lower planting coupled with bad weather, all of a sudden that can have a very different impact on food security and food prices down the road.
[02:28:58]  And that's why I talk about having a bit of humility about how these things are going to unfold, because there are so many variables, so many factors intersecting that it's very hard to predict how history is going to unfold.
[02:29:10]  On those factors intersecting way in the response that NATO countries have given generally towards the operations of strength, particularly after the president's call for those countries for help.
[02:29:21]  Well, I think what you've heard from NATO countries, and it wasn't just a call to NATO countries, it was to all U.S. allies, was that we did not start this war and we do not plan to get involved in this war.
[02:29:33]  And you can understand the vantage point of many of these countries.
[02:29:36]  Leaving aside the fact that they didn't start the war and weren't consulted on it, if the United States Navy is reluctant to take on this mission and the mission of clearing the Strait of Hormuz is very difficult, precisely because it is so tight and ships would become so vulnerable, it's easy to understand why they're not eager to rush in and solve the problem for the United States.
[02:29:59]  What NATO leaders and Japan's leader have said is that if there is a solution, an agreement between Washington and Tehran, they're willing to come in and help the United States then.
[02:30:10]  So is it your estimation that when it comes to the Strait, it's pretty much a go-it-alone point for America, or are there others they can depend on?
[02:30:18]  Well, you have two choices.
[02:30:19]  One is either you can force the Iranians to say uncle and take back control of the Strait of Hormuz that way, or you can reach a negotiated solution.
[02:30:29]  Both are difficult.
[02:30:30]  I think to reopen the Strait of Hermuz would require putting, like I say, boots on the ground to prevent the Iranians from using the shoreline to attack shipping.
[02:30:40]  On the other hand, if you get a negotiated settlement, you have to be willing to give something up.
[02:30:44]  And how much are you willing to give up?
[02:30:46]  And what is the cost of what you give up?
[02:30:48]  Those are really big questions.
[02:30:50]  And I think this is where the administration finds itself in a bit of a dilemma.
[02:30:56]  Based on what the president said, he never anticipated getting into a situation in which the Strait of Hormuz was closed.
[02:31:03]  But we are where we are.
[02:31:04]  And the question is, where do you go from here?
[02:31:06]  Do you escalate or do you de-escalate?
[02:31:09]  First call for you comes from Brian.
[02:31:11]  Brian is joining us from Albuquerque, Independent Line, with James Lindsay of Council on Foreign Relations.
[02:31:18]  Go ahead.
[02:31:19]  Hey, good morning, gentlemen.
[02:31:21]  You know, another big factor in this latest conflict is the Israelis, of course.
[02:31:26]  But we don't talk about Israel, the United States, which is a shame.
[02:31:32]  Let's remember, Rubio even said it.
[02:31:35]  The Israelis were going to launch the war.
[02:31:37]  They're going to launch their attack.
[02:31:39]  And we decided we would join in because we figured Iran would retaliate.
[02:31:43]  It was the Israelis that attacked last summer.
[02:31:46]  They took out the Iranian air defense systems.
[02:31:50]  And then Trump decided, well, we'll go ahead and just bomb all their facilities.
[02:31:54]  So this is what really concerns me.
[02:31:57]  The behavior of the Israeli government is repulsive to many Americans.
[02:32:04]  And they have a stranglehold over both of our political parties and our media.
[02:32:08]  And we're not allowed to discuss this.
[02:32:10]  So let's stop and realize the Israelis bomb about half a dozen different countries in that region at will whenever they want to, and nobody says a word about it.
[02:32:22]  We fund the Israelis, but we never talked about it.
[02:32:25]  And, you know, what's the CFR's position on the behavior of Netanyahu and all the land grabs that are going on in the West Bank and southern Lebanon?
[02:32:36]  You know, the Israelis launched a war in Lebanon.
[02:32:39]  We don't talk about it.
[02:32:40]  Okay.
[02:32:40]  Okay, you made the point, so Lo, let our guests respond to that.
[02:32:43]  Well, what I'll just say to Brian is in terms of my employer, it does not take positions on matters of policy.
[02:32:50]  I also am not sure I accept the premise to Brian's question that we don't discuss Israel's role in the war right now.
[02:32:58]  I think that's been very heavily discussed.
[02:33:00]  And I think one of the really interesting things, Pedro, as you look at the unfolding of the war, is that the war aims of the Netanyahu government may not necessarily be the war aims of the Trump administration.
[02:33:11]  I think it's pretty clear the Israelis would like to see regime change in our trying to topple the regime in Iran.
[02:33:18]  If you can sort of see that in terms of the targets they're going after, they're the ones that struck and killed the supreme leader.
[02:33:25]  The United States military has been very focused on going after Iran's military and missile facilities and trying to degrade those.
[02:33:34]  And again, one of the questions then becomes for the president of the United States is, as he decides what to do, what sort of cost is it raised for him in dealing with Israel versus Iran.
[02:33:46]  And I think at the end of the day, if the president can clearly decide to do things, would make Prime Minister Netanyahu unhappy.
[02:33:53]  And talking about the Israelis, it's the foreign policy opinionist Max Boot who wrote a column for the call post saying, it's true the U.S. and Israel are both waging war against Tehran, a campaign that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has long agitated for, but it wasn't until Trump came to power that the U.S. finally agreed to attack Iran, first last June and then again on February 28th.
[02:34:13]  That's Trump's responsibility.
[02:34:14]  He could have said no.
[02:34:15]  He certainly could have.
[02:34:16]  And the president made a decision.
[02:34:18]  It's one the presidents get to make.
[02:34:20]  I think the president is motivated by the desire that he's willing to do things that other presidents are unwilling to do.
[02:34:27]  He said this over and over again.
[02:34:29]  And the question, which you're going to get an answer to soon enough, is was that a wise thing to do?
[02:34:35]  Again, one of the reasons why prior presidents didn't attack Iran in this fashion is that they looked and said, these are the potential consequences, one of them being the closure of the Strait of Hormuz.
[02:34:46]  And what do you do once that happens?
[02:34:48]  And I think that deterred prior presidents from operating this way against Iran.
[02:34:55]  From Iowa Republican line, Floyd, hello.
[02:34:59]  Yeah, guest.
[02:35:00]  I'd like to, oh, something first.
[02:35:02]  The Israelis, they have attacked American forces before, the USS Liberty Incident, 8 June 1967.
[02:35:08]  You've got to watch out for that.
[02:35:09]  But what I want to get to is this.
[02:35:11]  Right now we've got the Russians giving intelligence information to the Iranians.
[02:35:15]  Now we can look for that.
[02:35:16]  That is not going to go away.
[02:35:17]  We can look for things to increase.
[02:35:19]  The Chinese have an interest in that area also.
[02:35:23]  What's going to happen when they get involved in a more aggressive manner, military?
[02:35:27]  There's no doubt in my mind we can whip them.
[02:35:29]  But I want to find out how far this guy thinks that Trump is going to go on this business about getting involved in foreign business again.
[02:35:37]  Let me listen to your answer off the air.
[02:35:38]  Thank you.
[02:35:39]  Out.
[02:35:40]  Well, thanks for the question, Floyd.
[02:35:41]  I think the president has already answered your question.
[02:35:43]  He intends to become involved in lots of countries overseas.
[02:35:48]  We've seen the capture of Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela.
[02:35:53]  We have seen the president put pressure on Cuba.
[02:35:56]  We obviously, Pedro, have the war in Iran.
[02:36:00]  I think one of the questions that people have to think about are what are the knock-on consequences of the war on Iran.
[02:36:06]  In the short term, at least, there are an interesting set of beneficiaries of the fighting.
[02:36:11]  One is Russia.
[02:36:13]  Why is Russia benefiting?
[02:36:14]  Because, one, oil prices have gone up.
[02:36:16]  Oil is the biggest revenue source for the Russian government.
[02:36:20]  Plus, the United States has eased off sanctions on Russian oil.
[02:36:24]  So the Russians have more money coming into their coffers to prosecute the war on Ukraine.
[02:36:29]  At the same time, American weapons stocks have been really pressed by the war in Iran, and that's going to make it a lot harder for European countries to provide weapons to Ukraine.
[02:36:40]  So that's something to keep an eye on.
[02:36:42]  I think if you look at Beijing, the Chinese aren't interested in getting involved in the war in Iran, but they're likely to be a quiet beneficiary.
[02:36:52]  Why?
[02:36:53]  Because the argument Beijing has been making to much of the world, and particularly the so-called global south, is that China is the stable power, the law-abiding power.
[02:37:04]  The rogue power, the power that's disrupting things, causing problems around the world, is the United States.
[02:37:10]  And so I think from the vantage point of Beijing, you don't have to do a lot.
[02:37:15]  You can sit by and watch the United States create a lot of adversaries and a lot of upset around the world that will redound to Beijing's benefit.
[02:37:26]  Our guest is the host of the President's Inbox podcast.
[02:37:30]  How would you describe that to people?
[02:37:32]  It's a weekly interview show.
[02:37:33]  I sit down with experts.
[02:37:35]  We talk about major issues in the news.
[02:37:38]  You just mentioned Max Boot, my colleague at the Council.
[02:37:41]  We did an episode last week which was on U.S. military's activities in Iran, how successful it's been.
[02:37:49]  You talked about asymmetrical warfare in that case.
[02:37:51]  What did you mean by that?
[02:37:52]  Well, asymmetrical warfare is we tend to think that, you know, if you throw a punch, the other side will throw a punch.
[02:37:58]  But in essence, the other side isn't restricted to fighting war on your terms.
[02:38:03]  And what the Iranians have done is to both respond, but also to broaden who they attack.
[02:38:10]  We've already seen they've launched attacks against the Saudis, against the Emiratis, against Kuwait, a number of other countries, in part because they're trying to change the calculus.
[02:38:20]  What they're trying to do is they know they can't defeat the United States militarily.
[02:38:25]  So what they're trying to do is to create a situation that brings a lot of pressure on the United States to negotiate.
[02:38:32]  That's the point of trying to shut down and succeeding in shutting down the Strait of Hamuz.
[02:38:37]  It just changes everybody's calculations.
[02:38:39]  Because now the president isn't faced simply with, are we winning on the battlefield, but are we winning globally in terms of the way other countries view us, their fears of heading into recession?
[02:38:50]  Am I winning at home?
[02:38:52]  Given that gas prices are going up, what kind of pressure does that bring on to me?
[02:38:56]  So the Iranians are not required to fight in the same way that the United States does.
[02:39:02]  And again, I would sort of, just to broaden this back to people, what's really quite clear is that in pure military terms, the United States military has had major tactical successes.
[02:39:15]  The United States military is very well armed.
[02:39:18]  They're very well trained.
[02:39:19]  They're very good at what they do.
[02:39:21]  And they have significantly degraded Iran's military capabilities.
[02:39:26]  But tactical success doesn't necessarily translate, Pedro, into political or strategic victory.
[02:39:34]  And I'll just sort of give you a quick anecdote on that line.
[02:39:38]  After the Vietnam War was over, an American who had fought in the war, a member of the United States Army, met a senior North Vietnamese leader and said, you know, throughout the course of that war, you never defeated us on the battlefield.
[02:39:55]  And North Korean officials said, true, but irrelevant.
[02:39:58]  And that's because at the end of the day, the military portion has to be thought of in terms of a broader set of political objectives.
[02:40:06]  And military force, no matter how much you bring to bear, doesn't guarantee you're going to get the political outcome you want.
[02:40:12]  That's the challenge the Trump administration faces right now.
[02:40:15]  About the podcast, how often do you put something out?
[02:40:18]  We put it out once a week.
[02:40:19]  It comes out Wednesday afternoons.
[02:40:22]  And I think what we're doing, our show that comes out tomorrow is on Allied reaction to Operation Epic Fury.
[02:40:29]  Let's hear from Florida Independent Lines.
[02:40:31]  Stephen, hello.
[02:40:33]  Hello.
[02:40:34]  I was just wondering, this Robin Peters of PayPal, if the Southeast, are they activating CETO, Southeast Asian Treaty Organization?
[02:40:45]  Do we have enough firepower to defend against China's aggression because they're building islands in the South China Sea to launch aircraft?
[02:40:57]  And our possessions in Japan and the Philippines and all those countries in CETO would have a hard time defending against China.
[02:41:08]  That's all I have to say, and have a great day.
[02:41:12]  That's a great question.
[02:41:13]  I would just note that CETO ended up on the ash heap of history a number of decades ago.
[02:41:19]  But if you sort of look at the geopolitical challenge facing the United States, Pedro, one of the major things is the China challenge.
[02:41:29]  And China is asserting itself, particularly in East Asia.
[02:41:33]  And the question is, is the United States interested and able to deter Chinese aggression in East Asia?
[02:41:43]  And that's a big question that people at Indo-Paycom grapple with all the time.
[02:41:49]  And one of the things we know right now is that in Beijing, as well as in Moscow, military strategies are paying very close attention to how the United States is fighting in the Persian Gulf, trying to draw lessons from it in case they end up confronting the United States.
[02:42:06]  And that's one of the other big things about this is the United States historically has relied on having a major qualitative advantage over its adversaries.
[02:42:19]  But we're now moving into a different world in which the advantage may swing from who has the better weapons to who has more weapons.
[02:42:27]  We're seeing this with drone attacks, where you can basically build drones relatively cheaply, and the United States is using very expensive weapons to shoot them down.

=== Ballistic Missile Program Concerns (15:20) ===

[02:42:38]  That is unsustainable.
[02:42:40]  And I think one fear people have as they watch the unfolding of the war is that U.S. weapons stocks are being drawn down quite significantly and the production capability replaced them is actually very slow.
[02:42:53]  So in the first two weeks of Operation Epic Fury, the United States fired more Patriot missile interceptors than the United States builds in a single year.
[02:43:03]  That is an unsustainable exchange rate.
[02:43:07]  This comes to the point where the Defense Secretary is asking for $200 billion more for Iran operations.
[02:43:13]  Whether Congress appropriates the $200 billion or more, the fact is that it's very difficult to build these weapons.
[02:43:20]  And so you need to throw more money at the problem.
[02:43:22]  You cannot sort of speed up production sufficiently.
[02:43:26]  And then that gets you back in the question, do you need to sort of redesign how you respond to these issues?
[02:43:32]  And one of the interesting things to follow in the wake of Operation Epic Fury is that the United States went to Ukraine and said, you have a lot of experience dealing with drones.
[02:43:44]  Tell us what you've learned.
[02:43:45]  Now, a lot of people would say, why isn't it the case that the Pentagon asked these questions four years ago?
[02:43:51]  Because Ukraine has been facing drone attacks and has refined its own drone attacks over the past four years.
[02:43:58]  But the Trump administration dismissed an offer of help from the Ukrainians last year.
[02:44:04]  But now, once war has begun, it becomes very clear that the traditional way of the United States would respond to drones is simply unsustainable.
[02:44:12]  For our guests, our next call comes from Joe.
[02:44:15]  Joe, joining us from here in Washington, D.C., Independent Line.
[02:44:18]  Hello, Joe.
[02:44:20]  Good morning, Mr. Lenzi.
[02:44:23]  Good morning, Pedro.
[02:44:25]  I just want to know, there are so many countries throughout the world who have nuclear weapons.
[02:44:34]  My question is, who makes the decision who should have nuclear weapons?
[02:44:43]  Well, that's a great question, Joe.
[02:44:45]  There is a treaty called the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, which created a set of countries that were allowed to have nuclear weapons, largely because they already had them, and all of the countries pledged not to get nuclear weapons.
[02:45:00]  You have North Korea, which has violated it, Pakistan, and other countries.
[02:45:05]  Ultimately, at the end of the day, it's up to individual countries to decide whether they want them or not.
[02:45:11]  And there are a whole set of mechanisms to make it very hard for countries to acquire nuclear weapons.
[02:45:16]  And this is really at the root of the dispute between the United States and Iran is over what the United States argues is Iran's attempt to get a nuclear weapon.
[02:45:26]  The Iranians say they don't intend to get a nuclear weapon, never have.
[02:45:29]  President Trump just this week said that the Iranians had agreed to that.
[02:45:33]  That's really nothing new.
[02:45:35]  But from the vantage point of the United States and many of its friends, partners, and allies, the concern is that no matter what the Iranians said about not wanting or not intending to build a nuclear weapon, they were doing everything to get there.
[02:45:49]  And the question we're going to have coming out of this is how much has the United States set back Iran's nuclear program?
[02:45:57]  And again, I'll take it back a year ago, last June, we had Operation Midnight Hammer, Pedro, and the President argue that the United States had obliterated Iran's nuclear program.
[02:46:09]  And it's clear that the United States military did significant damage to Iran's nuclear weapons program.
[02:46:18]  But, you know, at the end of February, we have Steve Witkoff, the President's special envoy, arguing that Iran was within a week of having a nuclear weapon.
[02:46:27]  And again, this is the problem with these technologies, is that you can blow them up, but people can rebuild.
[02:46:33]  And so the real question is, are we going to get out of this current conflict a set of assurances and arrangements that's going to prevent Iran from going forward with nuclear weapons?
[02:46:45]  The related issue is where is Iran's enriched uranium right now?
[02:46:50]  Is it secured and is it at risk of being stolen?
[02:46:54]  And I think that's one of the big questions we have.
[02:46:56]  There's a lot of speculation that might be a special operation by the United States or the Israelis to secure it, but that would obviously be a high-risk operation.
[02:47:06]  Some critics of the president say it was him pulling out of the joint comprehensive plan of action that was put in place by the Obama administration that was part of the reason we're at this point.
[02:47:15]  How valid is that?
[02:47:17]  Well, it's valid to an extent.
[02:47:20]  There was a deal in place, negotiated by the Obama administration, that would have frozen Iran's nuclear weapons program for a while.
[02:47:30]  But many of the restrictions that would have been in place under JCPOA with the Iran nuclear deal would have already started expiring.
[02:47:38]  And so, you know, in that sense, you can't redo history and it probably isn't all that relevant.
[02:47:45]  The other issue, I think, for a lot of people are concerned not just about the nuclear program, but about Iran's expanding ballistic missile program.
[02:47:54]  And we're seeing the Iranians use their ballistic missiles in the current conflict.
[02:48:00]  And I think many military analysts were surprised to note that the Iranians now have what no one thought they had, which is a medium-range ballistic missile.
[02:48:12]  That is a missile capable of going, let's say, 2,000, 3,000 miles, which would mean in theory the Iranians could hit targets in Europe.
[02:48:20]  And so that sort of changes things.
[02:48:22]  I think one of the things the administration hopes comes out of this war would be very real limits on the ability of Iran to build ballistic missiles.
[02:48:34]  Now, that's easier to hope for than it is to negotiate, particularly to verify.
[02:48:39]  Again, a lot of these things you would really need very intrusive arrangements to inspect and verify.
[02:48:46]  This is from Benita.
[02:48:47]  Bonita is in Mississippi, Democrat slime.
[02:48:52]  Hi, good morning.
[02:48:54]  Yes, I have a question for Mr. Lindsay.
[02:48:57]  I heard him say, and I apologize if I'm misquoting here, but a minute ago, he said something about how we would win this war, like basically insinuating that groups, troops on the ground, we would win this, you know, like it's not a big deal.
[02:49:16]  But my question is, that seems a little naïve, given that we've never been here before.
[02:49:22]  And, well, I mean, except for like the CIA back in the 50s, but you know, whatever.
[02:49:27]  But yeah, why does he feel like we could win this when we've never been there before and the country is basically a big mountain?
[02:49:35]  It's basically impregnable.
[02:49:36]  I'm just curious why he has this view that this would just be easy to do.
[02:49:42]  Benita, I don't think I said that the United States could win the war.
[02:49:46]  I think one of the interesting questions we're still confronting is: what is the Trump administration's objective in this war?
[02:49:54]  It is clear that the United States military, Pedro, has the ability and has used the ability to significantly degrade Iran's military facilities.
[02:50:03]  But again, wars, as a famous strategician said, is a continuation of politics by other means.
[02:50:13]  You fight wars to achieve political ends.
[02:50:16]  And the real question here is: what are the political ends the Trump administration is trying to seek?
[02:50:23]  I don't think it's regime change, though.
[02:50:24]  At times, the president has alluded and suggested he's interested in regime change.
[02:50:29]  The United States military, as best we can tell, seems to be simply fighting to degrade Iran's military capacity in the hope that you'll be able to reach a deal that will restrict ballistic missile and nuclear weapons programs.
[02:50:43]  But I don't think anyone, certainly in the administration, is talking about winning a war in the sense of taking over Iran.
[02:50:51]  I think the Iraq war dissuaded most Americans about the wisdom of doing that.
[02:50:57]  And I think sort of going forward, what you're really looking at is the question of can the United States compel the Iranians to give up their nuclear weapon and ballistic missile programs and reopen the Strait of Hormuz.
[02:51:10]  And that's very much a question mark.
[02:51:11]  And that's why I say that I think some humility is due here because there's a lot of uncertainty about where we're going.
[02:51:18]  You were talking about tactical victories versus long-term effect.
[02:51:22]  What did Iraq and Afghanistan teach us about that that could apply to what we're seeing in Iran?
[02:51:28]  Well, I think what Afghanistan and Iraq taught us is that military victory does not equal political success.
[02:51:36]  I mean, if you look again at Iraq, you look at Afghanistan, the United States military executed its mission.
[02:51:44]  It is able to overwhelm the adversary.
[02:51:47]  It had vast advantages in intelligence, surveillance, weapons capability.
[02:51:52]  But at the end of the day, that didn't produce the political outcome that the United States wanted.
[02:51:58]  And that's why I think we have a tendency in our debates here in the United States to overvalue what you can get by the use of military force.
[02:52:08]  And again, I go back to the reference I made about Vietnam.
[02:52:12]  The United States was never truly defeated on the field of battle in Vietnam, but it also lost the Vietnam War.
[02:52:18]  James Lindsay of Council on Foreign Relations with us.
[02:52:21]  This is John.
[02:52:22]  John is in Georgia, Republican line.
[02:52:25]  You're next up.
[02:52:25]  Hello.
[02:52:27]  Good morning.
[02:52:28]  I recently saw an interview with Lindsey Graham who stated that in October of 2023 he was working with Anthony Blinken and Jake Sullivan of the Biden administration to help Israel formulate relations with Saudi Arabia.
[02:52:45]  He said that was the impetus behind the attack in October of 2023.
[02:52:51]  He said the Biden administration was getting ready to announce these relations at the end of that month.
[02:52:57]  So we have a country in Iran that really doesn't want peace in the Middle East if they're never going to allow Israel to formulate relations with an Arab country.
[02:53:07]  He also stated that during our most recent negotiation with Iran, that the United States offered to give Iran a lifetime supply perpetual of uranium enriched to a 20% level, which is commercial grade.
[02:53:23]  He said Iran had over 400 kilograms of uranium enriched to 60% level.
[02:53:29]  90% was weapons grade.
[02:53:32]  And it takes two weeks to go from 60% to 90%.
[02:53:36]  He said our delegation was told by the Iranian delegation that they were not going to give us uranium that we could not take militarily.
[02:53:46]  So once again, you have Iran not willing to give up anything.
[02:53:51]  So I don't know if that's a imminent threat, but it sounds like it to me, and it sounded like it was to Lindsey Graham.
[02:54:00]  Okay.
[02:54:01]  John, we'll have to leave it there.
[02:54:02]  Thank you.
[02:54:03]  Thank you.
[02:54:04]  Well, I mean, there was a lot there, so it's sort of hard to respond to all of it.
[02:54:09]  In terms of sort of the dynamics in the Middle East, there was a hope that the so-called Abraham Accords process, which the Trump administration helped give birth to, was going to lead to a long-term settlement in the Middle East.
[02:54:25]  The hope was that at the end of the day, Saudi Arabia would recognize Israel.
[02:54:31]  There's a lot of diplomacy continued into the Biden administration, and that didn't come about.
[02:54:37]  Clearly, the October 7th attack on Israel played a big role in it, but it wasn't the only role in terms of derailing that hope.
[02:54:47]  It's unclear where Middle East peace is going to go right now.
[02:54:50]  Again, because whether you're in Riyadh or you're in Abu Dhabi, you're in Kuwait City, your sort of attitude, your choice set is going to be determined by how this war ends and when it ends.
[02:55:02]  We don't know what that's going to be.
[02:55:04]  Again, there's a lot of churn and a lot of uncertainty looking at it.
[02:55:08]  And so I would say, again, reasonable people can disagree about the imminence of the threat that Iran posed to the United States and its regional neighbors on March 1st of this year.
[02:55:21]  But I think it is clear that you have a regime that has historically been hostile to many of its neighbors, clearly hostile to the United States and Israel.
[02:55:30]  That is despotic and autocratic.
[02:55:34]  It's not clear, though, that the use of military force in Operation Epic Fury, Pedro, is going to solve the issue of the nature of the regime.
[02:55:41]  If anything, we could end up in a situation in which the regime is run now by really the most hostile, most bitter opponents of the United States and Israel.
[02:55:52]  The focus has been on Iran, but what's the future for Iran's proxies in light of the current conflict that's going on?
[02:55:58]  Well, Iran's proxies, Pedro, have been really degraded by Israeli activities, military activities, ever since October 7th.
[02:56:06]  Again, sort of the series of the case had been for Iran, that its deterrence, its ability to hold the United States and Israel at bay depended upon this so-called axis of resistance.
[02:56:19]  That is all of these resistance groups in the Levant, in Syria, in Lebanon, in Gaza, in the West Bank, that it funded and supported, and that they would sort of deter Israel from acting.
[02:56:32]  In the wake of October 7th attack, which the previous caller alluded to, the Israelis have gone about systematically dismantling the ability of these groups, groups like Hezbollah and Hamas in Gaza.
[02:56:47]  And so those groups are incredibly weakened, much weaker than they were before.
[02:56:53]  But again, that doesn't necessarily translate into a willingness to live with Israel.
[02:56:58]  And again, what we have seen is that these groups, while they are beaten, they're not defeated, and they're able to replenish their leadership ranks and continue on, which is why we don't have a lasting settlement.
[02:57:11]  This is not, let's say, akin to World War II, where the Axis powers were defeated and we started from scratch.
[02:57:19]  These groups continue to exist, again, much weaker, but they are still out there and they still cling to their hopes to overrun Israel.
[02:57:29]  Here is Juanita, who joins us from Cincinnati Democrats line.
[02:57:33]  Good morning, Juanita.
[02:57:35]  Good morning.
[02:57:36]  How are you?
[02:57:37]  I'd like your guests to correct me if I'm wrong about something about the IAEA.
[02:57:44]  Is Israel a member of that organization?
[02:57:49]  I'm not an expert on the roster of the IAEA, so I apologize.
[02:57:54]  Okay, well, apology accepted.
[02:57:57]  They are not.

=== Israel Nuclear Hypocrisy Question (02:59) ===

[02:57:59]  That's number one.
[02:58:01]  Number two, has Israel ever allowed any inspectors to come into their country, which they're insisting that Iran does, to inspect their nuclear facilities?
[02:58:13]  No.
[02:58:14]  Okay.
[02:58:16]  And then thirdly, if I'm not mistaken, under the old apartheid regime, it was said that Israel helped South Africa get or develop a nuclear bomb.
[02:58:32]  But upon the advent of Mr. Mandela, South Africa with you out of that.
[02:58:38]  So my question to you and the MAGA crowd is: if Israel can accept, can insist that they have a nuclear weapon and not let anyone see where it is, thanks to Mr. Jonathan Pollard, but then say to Iran, you can't have one, isn't that a bit hypocritical?
[02:58:58]  Okay, Juanita in Cincinnati.
[02:59:00]  Well, I will note that it is not just Israel that does not wish Iran to have a nuclear weapon.
[02:59:06]  And I would note that Iran is bound by international law not to get a nuclear weapon.
[02:59:11]  It is a member of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.
[02:59:14]  So I think it is a mistake wanting to basically argue that this is solely an Israeli position on what Iran should be able or shouldn't be able to do.
[02:59:27]  From Ray, Ray and Tennessee Republican line.
[02:59:31]  Hi.
[02:59:32]  Hello.
[02:59:33]  Yes, I'm a Vietnam veteran, and I know I've lost a lot of sweat and tears and blood in that war.
[02:59:46]  And I just want to say, yes, there can't be a defeat.
[02:59:51]  It was done in Japan, and it was done in Germany.
[02:59:56]  The problem is, we need to take this war to them and make them understand that we don't believe in their beliefs, and we're not going to put up with their behind our back stabbing us.
[03:00:11]  And we need to finish the war straight away.
[03:00:16]  They got no say in it.
[03:00:17]  It's unconditional guarantee the surrender.
[03:00:22]  And just leave it at that.
[03:00:25]  You can't fight these wars with negotiating with the enemy.
[03:00:31]  Ray in Tennessee, thank you.
[03:00:33]  I take Ray's point.
[03:00:34]  I would just say that I don't think most Americans share Ray's view.
[03:00:39]  They're not willing to commit the level of troops, cost. blood and treasure to making that happen.
[03:00:46]  We're talking about a country of 90 million plus people, very difficult terrain, halfway around the world.
[03:00:55]  So to, quote, take it to them and finish the job would require a