CSPAN - Washington Journal Dana Stroul
Aired: 2026-03-17
Duration: 22:59


=== Joint Military Operations in Middle East (15:01) ===

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[00:01:27]  Welcome back to Washington Journal.
[00:01:29]  Joining us now is Dana Stroll.
[00:01:31]  She is Research Director for the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, former Assistant Defense Secretary for the Middle East during the Biden administration.
[00:01:39]  Dana, welcome to the program.
[00:01:41]  Great to be here with you.
[00:01:42]  So just start, please, by telling us about your background in the Middle East and your role at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.
[00:01:49]  Sure.
[00:01:49]  So as the research director, I'm responsible for everything we're doing at the Washington Institute.
[00:01:54]  We have an amazing group of scholars and fellows, many who are subject matter experts in very specific issues related to the Middle East, and many who have served in both Republican and Democratic administrations in very senior policymaking roles, Defense Department, State Department, National Security Council, you name it.
[00:02:13]  So we bring all of that expertise together and try to make the best recommendations for U.S. policy going forward in the Middle East.
[00:02:20]  And your specific backgrounds, what you bring to this.
[00:02:24]  So before the Washington Institute, I was the top civilian official in the Pentagon in the previous administration responsible for U.S. defense policy in the Middle East.
[00:02:35]  And I've also served for many years on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
[00:02:39]  So always Middle East policy, but from different vantage points from the Senate, from the Department of Defense, and always working across a big U.S. government team working with the State Department, working with the National Security Council and our intelligence community.
[00:02:52]  Well, I want to start with the latest news to come out of Iran, which is Israel announcing the killing of Ali Larajani.
[00:02:59]  Can you tell us who he was and the significance of his killing?
[00:03:03]  Yeah, it's quite significant.
[00:03:04]  So he's the Secretary of Iran's National Supreme Council, and he has both been one of the lead negotiators for Iran on the nuclear file designated by the now deceased former Supreme Leader Ali Khomeini, and he's been one of the most loud voices of the Iranian government both before this current war and this war, toting very hard lines about the Iranian government's approach to this war, its threats across the Middle East,
[00:03:35]  and the attitude of the regime going forward toward negotiations.
[00:03:39]  And this is significant because in the context of this current war, both what Israel has been doing and the United States, part of this is about weakening and even collapsing the Iranian regime.
[00:03:51]  For the first day of the war, one of the big operations that Israel did was a decapitation strike, which both killed the Supreme Leader but numerous other, up to 40 top officials.
[00:04:02]  And since then, the Israeli government has been quite clear they are going to continue to target Iran's top military and political leaders.
[00:04:10]  And this is another one this morning.
[00:04:13]  So what impact will his death specifically have?
[00:04:16]  You called him hardline.
[00:04:17]  Is there anybody in the regime that's not hardline?
[00:04:20]  It's very unlikely at this point.
[00:04:23]  If you think about it, for the Iranian regime, they were weakened before this current war, both because of the last two and a half years of grinding war across the Middle East, and they're more vulnerable and exposed domestically inside Iran.
[00:04:36]  They just perpetrated the largest massacre in the history of this regime against the Iranian people in mid-January.
[00:04:43]  So they're vulnerable and now they're under a massive attack.
[00:04:47]  Most of their conventional military capabilities are being wiped out.
[00:04:51]  And historically, the previous Supreme Leader played more of a moderating or balancing role between the different power centers in Iran.
[00:04:59]  But as the ranks of the senior leaders are thinned out and given this experience of war, what we're left with is more hardline and more of an IRGC, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, which are the protectors of this religious government, religiously motivated government in Tehran.
[00:05:19]  So we're likely actually to see more hardline people without these voices that have experience engaging with the West.
[00:05:26]  We've got a question for Dana Stroll, Dana Stroll, on the events of the Middle East.
[00:05:32]  You can go ahead and start calling.
[00:05:34]  And now, lines are bipartisan.
[00:05:35]  Democrats are on 2027488000.
[00:05:38]  Republicans 2027488001.
[00:05:41]  And Independents 202-748-8002.
[00:05:44]  We will start taking your calls shortly.
[00:05:46]  You wrote a piece for Foreign Affairs earlier this month focusing on the fact that the U.S. and Israel are in now a truly joint military operation.
[00:05:58]  What's the significance of that?
[00:06:00]  Well, generally, the U.S. military works in coalitions.
[00:06:04]  So if you think about a little over a decade ago when ISIS, the world's most fearsome terrorist army, took over parts of Iraq and Syria, or you look back to the first or second Gulf Wars, it was really the U.S. military who designed the entire operation, was providing all of the intelligence, figuring out what was going to happen when, and then looking to coalition partners to plug in wherever they could in a U.S.-designed U.S.-led operation.
[00:06:33]  This is different.
[00:06:34]  This is two partners equally sharing the risk.
[00:06:37]  Israeli lives both over Iran, the Israeli military, and Israeli civilians in Israel are very much at risk.
[00:06:45]  U.S. military forces are at risk.
[00:06:47]  We've already had several casualties since the beginning of this war.
[00:06:51]  But what's clear is that there's a division of labor.
[00:06:53]  You have Israeli Defense Forces going after certain targets, U.S. military going after other targets, U.S. refueling tankers, refueling Israeli aircraft, but really working in a partnership.
[00:07:05]  And that is different than how the United States traditionally or historically fights, especially in the Middle East.
[00:07:11]  Does this mean that this will be a new way of fighting globally, or is this just kind of a one-off?
[00:07:19]  Is this a unique situation?
[00:07:20]  I think it remains to be seen.
[00:07:22]  So what's clear from President Trump and what he said about wanting allies and partners of the United States to put more risk, bring more to the fight, is that what he's talking about is something like what we're seeing here.
[00:07:34]  And he would like to see that in other theaters.
[00:07:36]  And most administrations, both Republican and Democrat, have always pushed for our the United States network of allies and partners to bring more to the fight.
[00:07:46]  But I think this one is unique at this moment in time.
[00:07:49]  And the other element of the piece I wrote is that while the military partnership is deepening, there's more political criticism of this relationship on the right and the left.
[00:07:59]  Well, one criticism and what critics of this war will say is Netanyahu got Trump into this war and that this is all kind of Israel's doing.
[00:08:10]  Do you agree with that?
[00:08:12]  Do you agree that President Trump's hand was kind of forced or coerced into joining this war?
[00:08:20]  I don't.
[00:08:21]  First of all, President Trump, it's very clear, he's the decider on everything.
[00:08:25]  No one is telling him what to do or when to do it.
[00:08:29]  Secondly, it was Trump in January who made the decision to do this massive military buildup that we saw happening all through January and February until the point in which he decided to start these hostilities.
[00:08:42]  And number three, the threats from Iran are actually not new.
[00:08:46]  We've always been, when it comes to the Middle East, really concerned about Iran's nuclear program, Iran's missile program and drone program, its support for terrorists and non-state groups all over the Middle East.
[00:08:57]  And this is something the United States has been focused on for decades, working with our partners in the Middle East, outside of the Middle East, and with Israel.
[00:09:06]  All right, let's talk to Sam.
[00:09:07]  He's calling us from Thousand Oaks, California, Independent Lines.
[00:09:10]  Sam, you're on with Dana Stroll.
[00:09:13]  Good morning.
[00:09:14]  Thank you for taking my call.
[00:09:16]  My question is on the origins of this tensions between the U.S. and Iran.
[00:09:23]  I know that frequently the media says it started in 1979 with Khomeini coming in and overthrowing the Thra Bishop, but as someone who lived there, I grew up there in the 70s.
[00:09:37]  The people I spoke to there, they trace it back all the way to the 50s when the CIA overthrew the democratically elected Prime Minister Mossadiki.
[00:09:47]  So I'd just like to hear your views.
[00:09:50]  That's their perspective.
[00:09:51]  What is your perspective?
[00:09:52]  Thank you.
[00:09:54]  Thanks for that question, Sam.
[00:09:56]  So I think the United States has a very fraught history when it comes to the Middle East and dictating political outcomes about how societies and governments across the Middle East should or should not govern and organize themselves.
[00:10:10]  And certainly U.S. involvement in Iran from 1953 and the ostrac Mossadak, as you note, I think is a very troubling episode in the U.S.-Iranian relationship.
[00:10:24]  But at this point in time, what I think is really important to focus on is what are U.S. national security interests.
[00:10:31]  And what we want is a stable Middle East at peace with itself, peaceful relationships between countries, where societies and governments can figure out and self-determine for themselves.
[00:10:43]  And with the Iranian regime that's been in place since 1979, what they've done is cultivate a network of terrorists and non-state groups, and then Bashar al-Assad and Syria, who kept societies across the government weak, and they were arming and funding and training them to attack the United States, to attack Israel.
[00:11:02]  And now what we're seeing is they're actually attacking civilians and civilian infrastructure across the Middle East.
[00:11:07]  So at this point in time, I think the question is, what should the United States be doing to leave the Middle East in a more stable situation?
[00:11:15]  And is what the United States doing right now going to leave the Middle East in a more stable situation?
[00:11:22]  I think it's very unclear what the outcome is going to be.
[00:11:26]  Is it going in that direction?
[00:11:28]  So the problem is if you listen to the U.S. military, they have reports about the destruction they're causing to Iran's nuclear program, to Iran's missile program and drone program.
[00:11:39]  The Navy.
[00:11:40]  We keep hearing from Secretary of War Hegse and President Trump himself that we've sunk the Iranian Navy.
[00:11:46]  Except the threats to the Middle East are there.
[00:11:49]  There's still missile attacks and drone attacks that are successfully causing fires across the Middle East and destroying infrastructure and deaths.
[00:11:58]  The Strait of Hormuz is still closed.
[00:12:00]  Basically, unless you cut a deal with the Iranian regime, nothing is transiting and it's having tremendous negative impact on global commerce.
[00:12:08]  And now we have the likelihood that the regime right now in Iran looks intact and is likely to be more hardline, more angry, and less willing to negotiate with the West.
[00:12:20]  And I think the history of Middle East, of U.S. experience in the Middle East, is that nothing ends with the military instrument and nothing ends when the fighting stops.
[00:12:29]  There always has to be a political process on the other side of that.
[00:12:33]  And right now, I just don't see where that off-ramp is.
[00:12:37]  Sue in Georgia has a question for you.
[00:12:38]  She says, I absolutely despise the Iranian theocracy, as I do all authoritarian regimes.
[00:12:44]  With that being said, is it not fair for the Iranian populace to regard an illegally nuclear-armed Israeli government as an existential threat to them?
[00:12:56]  Well, I think if you listen to what Israel and the United States are articulating as their goals in this war, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu has said he wants to collapse, he wants to create the conditions for regime change in Iran.
[00:13:14]  And he's actually spoken directly to the Iranian people and said that he wants to create space for them to rise up, overthrow the rest of the regime, and figure out what they want for themselves.
[00:13:25]  President Trump has largely said the same thing.
[00:13:28]  The challenge is right now, the Iranian people aren't going to come out on the streets because there's bombs and airstrikes all the time.
[00:13:36]  And a lot of the kinds of tools you would want to provide a society the opportunity to figure out what comes next, organized opposition, ability to communicate, are not the tools that either the United States or Israel are bringing to bear.
[00:13:50]  Another part of your question I think is important here is that Iran has directly said it wants to wipe Israel off the map.
[00:13:58]  So Iran and its activities are an existential threat to Israel.
[00:14:02]  Israel has never said it wants to wipe Iran off the map.
[00:14:05]  What it said is that the actions and behaviors of this regime are an existential threat to Israel.
[00:14:12]  Let's talk to Ted.
[00:14:13]  He's calling us from Buena Vista, Colorado, Independent Line.
[00:14:16]  Hi, Ted.
[00:14:18]  Yeah, good morning.
[00:14:19]  Thanks for taking my call.
[00:14:21]  You know, we have no business going through war with Iran.
[00:14:26]  You know, the problem is that Donald Trump wants to build his facilities in Gaza.
[00:14:35]  And by building his facilities in Gaza, we cannot have peaceful contractors going in to Gaza and Palestinian territory while Iran and all their proxies are running around and will attack all the contractors.
[00:14:53]  Palestine should become a separate state, like Israel should be a separate state.
[00:14:58]  And we have a problem in the Persian Gulf right now.

=== Targeting Energy Infrastructure and Oil (07:58) ===

[00:15:01]  And our leadership in the military is just what the language is.
[00:15:06]  I mean, they bombed that island in the North Persian Sea and where they distribute the oil out of Iran.
[00:15:14]  And the other day, Trump said, I'm going to go back and keep bombing that place just for fun.
[00:15:20]  I mean, you know, and then Cloyd Booker in last night, he said it's sorry about what the American soldiers have died in the planes and American breaths, but he did not mention the 140 girls that got killed in Iran.
[00:15:44]  He should have said just as much about the girls that got shot in that school, and they're depending on AI to do the intelligence when the intelligence was bogus.
[00:15:56]  I mean, we should be listening to leaders like Leon Panetta, who knows the world mechanics of war.
[00:16:04]  And we need, you know, the biggest problem we have right now is this is a distraction and we're leaving Alaska vulnerable.
[00:16:12]  I mean, who's to say Russia and China could just land in Alaska because we're not taking care of our whole countries?
[00:16:20]  Okay, Ted.
[00:16:22]  Ted, you bring up some really important issues.
[00:16:25]  So first of all, I think all casualties, all civilian casualties in war are terrible.
[00:16:32]  And there is not as I don't think there's sufficient focus on the level of casualties.
[00:16:37]  And I agree with you that American leaders, both our political leaders and our military leaders, should be consistently expressing condolences for the loss of life.
[00:16:49]  In particular, with the episode in, I think, one of the earliest days of this war on the school that killed 140 Iranian girls, which was next to an Iranian military base.
[00:17:04]  First of all, these things happen in war all the time.
[00:17:08]  It is something that the U.S. military has unfortunately had incidents like this in many wars.
[00:17:14]  In Afghanistan, this has happened.
[00:17:16]  In Iraq, this has happened.
[00:17:17]  But I say that in this case, it was outdated intelligence.
[00:17:20]  Right.
[00:17:21]  So let me just say first of all.
[00:17:22]  That was like at least 10 years old, though.
[00:17:23]  I agree.
[00:17:24]  So first of all, there is a process for investigating how these accidents happen.
[00:17:30]  And there's a process of both investigating how it happened, holding those accountable, and being transparent and public about the mistake, and then what is happening to rectify that mistake, and also offering payments to the families.
[00:17:44]  One of the challenges in this case is that we have a political administration who, rather than say we're going to hold on any public commentary and let that investigation happen, came out and said it wasn't us.
[00:17:56]  And now we have a lot of outside chatter about was it an AI target, what exactly happened.
[00:18:02]  The U.S. military has actually appointed a general officer to investigate this outside of the responsibility of the U.S. forces in the Middle East to look at the entire incident, figure out how that intelligence was wrong, how the decision-making occurred, and what should happen next.
[00:18:20]  My personal view as someone who served in the Pentagon is that we should let that investigation take place.
[00:18:25]  And while we let it take place, it is really unhelpful for our leaders to be talking about it and speculating when we know that there's an investigation taking place.
[00:18:36]  He also mentioned Karg Island.
[00:18:38]  Yeah.
[00:18:38]  So let me again say, so Karg Island both has Iranian military infrastructure and it has economic and oil infrastructure.
[00:18:49]  And it is a very important element of how Iran exports its oil to market.
[00:18:57]  What President Trump announced last Friday night was that the U.S. military had taken strikes on U.S., sorry, on Iranian military installations on Karg Island, but it had intentionally not targeted the economic and energy infrastructure because that is for the Iranian people and for the future.
[00:19:15]  But what they were also signaling the United States is that we could target that energy infrastructure if we want.
[00:19:23]  So you, Iran, stopped targeting energy infrastructure in the Gulf, in the Middle East.
[00:19:28]  And what we saw immediately after those strikes on Karg Island is that that is not what happened.
[00:19:33]  The Iranians actually continued to target energy infrastructure in the UAE and other places.
[00:19:40]  And Israel is targeting oil facilities in Tehran.
[00:19:44]  So last week.
[00:19:45]  So there seems to be some disconnects between the U.S. and Israel.
[00:19:48]  I do think this is an area of divergence and an area of disagreement between the United States and Israel.
[00:19:54]  And what we saw last week is that Israel said it had targeted fuel storage fuel storage facilities that were used by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, these IRGC, in order to facilitate their operations, and that these were fuel storage depots that the Iranian regime was profiting from.
[00:20:16]  So that was the Israeli explanation.
[00:20:18]  And we actually saw the U.S. administration come out, the Trump administration come out and say, we don't support this.
[00:20:25]  The oil infrastructures for the Iranian people stop.
[00:20:28]  And we haven't seen Israel do that since.
[00:20:30]  Darryl, Independent, Gwen Oak, Maryland, you're on the air.
[00:20:34]  Good morning, first-time caller.
[00:20:37]  Excuse me.
[00:20:38]  My question to your guest is: last year, the Israelis attacked Iran and bombed a lot of their missile sites.
[00:20:50]  And B.B. Netanyahu came to the White House where Donald Trump was caught on a hot mic and stated that it would be spring for his attack for Iran.
[00:21:08]  So B.B. Netanyahu basically came to the United States last year and basically begged, urged Donald Trump to go to and attack Iran because he said it was basically defined.
[00:21:26]  Their missile sites had been taken down.
[00:21:30]  And it was caught on a hot mic with Donald Trump at spring.
[00:21:34]  So now we're in spring.
[00:21:35]  So how does your narrative adjust to all of this?
[00:21:40]  Thank you.
[00:21:41]  Thanks for that question.
[00:21:42]  So you're talking about the 12-day war last summer, which was mostly Israel, an Israeli-designed operation that lasted for 12 days.
[00:21:52]  And you're right.
[00:21:52]  They went after a lot of Iran's missile infrastructure, some of its nuclear program, and some decapitation strikes.
[00:22:01]  And essentially, Israel eliminated most or degraded most of Iran's air defense over the course of those 12 days and enabled the U.S. Military to come in with one specific operation, because only the U.S.
[00:22:16]  Military has B-2 bombers that can carry a very special munition, that can go deep into the deeply buried nuclear enrichment facilities that the Iranian regime had buried under mountains where it was enriching all of this uranium which you need to make a nuclear Weapon.
[00:22:36]  And so in this case, and I want to make a distinction about what I said earlier about the U.S. and Israel in this joint operation now, is that last summer it was an Israeli operation where the United States came in for 24 hours.
[00:22:48]  This is different.
[00:22:50]  And I agree that there's something problematic from the language used last summer till now.
[00:22:55]  Last summer, President Trump said we obliterated Iran's nuclear program and that there were