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|---|---|---|
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Recall the Apollo Era
00:02:07
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unidentified
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In their communities. | |
| And that is how we change minds and hearts. | ||
| And that is how we rebuild trust in government. | ||
| So I hope to set you off back into your communities on that optimistic note. | ||
| Thank you all for the service and the work that you do. | ||
| Thank you to our mayors. | ||
| And let's go rebuild trust. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Saturday, American History TV presents an all-day history of the American Space Program. | ||
| Relive the race to the moon, hear from NASA flight directors, and see original footage of America's trips beyond Earth. | ||
| Recall the timeline of Americans in space from the creation of NASA through Neil Armstrong's historic steps on the moon with the Smithsonian's Air and Space Museum Apollo curator Teasel Muir Harmony. | ||
| It all begins at 8 a.m. Eastern on C-SPAN 2. | ||
| We bring you into the chamber, onto the Senate floor, inside the hearing room, up to the mic, and to the desk in the Oval Office. | ||
| C-SPAN takes you where decisions are made. | ||
| No spin, no commentary, no agenda. | ||
| C-SPAN is your unfiltered connection to American democracy. | ||
| Advance the mission. | ||
| Donate today at C-SPAN.org forward slash donate. | ||
| Together, we keep democracy in view. | ||
| Joining us to talk about the role of political spouses in our nation is Anita McBride. | ||
| She is the director of the First Ladies Initiative at American University and former Chief of Staff to First Lady Laura Bush. | ||
| Anita, welcome to the program. | ||
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unidentified
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Good morning. | |
| Thank you for having me, Mimi. | ||
| So first, tell us about the First Ladies Initiative at American University. | ||
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unidentified
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Oh, sure. | |
| Delighted to tell you how we're very proud at American University is the only university in the country to actually have a center established to study the role of American First Ladies in their legacies, contributions to our politics, our policy, and to global diplomacy. | ||
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First Ladies' Evolution
00:02:20
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unidentified
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It was established in 2011. | |
| We host a series of conferences around the country, mostly in partnership with National Archives, Presidential Libraries, White House Historical Association. | ||
| We have a lecture series that we do, classes that we've helped to develop on First Ladies. | ||
| And over the last couple of years, very thrilled that we were, along with two co-authors, I was able to publish the first ever textbook on U.S. First Ladies that we use now at American University, but also at other universities around the country. | ||
| And just to mention your co-author of two books, Remember the First Ladies, Legacies of America's History Making Women, and also U.S. First Ladies, Making History and Leaving Legacies. | ||
| And why, Anita, is it important to understand the role of First Ladies anyway? | ||
|
unidentified
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Well, I think we can't talk about inclusive history in our country if we don't include the role of these women and the contributions that they've made throughout the evolution of our country. | |
| Even, you know, at the founding of our country and our founding mothers, even when these women did not have rights, they were not enshrined in our Constitution until well over 100 years after our country was founded. | ||
| But still, they found a way and an important way to ensure the survivability of our country and the ways that they engaged in supporting their husbands, but also defining issues that helped to move the country along. | ||
| And then, of course, and what we trace in the books, too, is the evolution of the country. | ||
| As women gained more rights, gained their voice in the public square, became political actors of their own, we've shined a light on how First Ladies have helped in those areas, pushing women's issues, labor issues, children's issues, health and wellness, military veterans, historic preservation, how they've engaged in political campaigns. | ||
| Every facet of our country, First Ladies have made a contribution as a partner to the presidency in an undefined role that really has enormous influence. | ||
|
Melania's Story Defined
00:15:17
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| Well, we're bringing you on today, especially because today is the release of the film Melania by First Lady Melania Trump. | ||
| I'm going to play the trailer for it and then we'll discuss the film. | ||
|
unidentified
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Okay. | |
| Here we go again. | ||
| You can come in. | ||
| Come on. | ||
| Peacemaker in the fire Together with like-minded leaders, we have a voice. | ||
| Is it safe? | ||
| Everyone wants to know So here it is. | ||
| Hi, Mr. President. | ||
| Congratulations. | ||
| Did you watch it? | ||
| I did not. | ||
| Yeah, I will see it on the news. | ||
| Well, that was the trailer. | ||
| You were actually invited to the premiere last night at the Kennedy Center. | ||
| So before we get your reaction to the film itself, what was your reaction to the idea of this film coming out now? | ||
|
unidentified
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Well, when I first heard about the film, that Mrs. Trump was doing it, and I thought, well, this was an opportunity she had to tell her life, her story, in her words. | |
| And every single First Lady has faced that challenge on how they are defined by the public, how they are defined by the media, how they may try and control the narrative. | ||
| And of course, that's evolved over the course of our history, too, as media changes. | ||
| And in the digital age that we are living now, and of course we have a First Lady who is a businesswoman before she became First Lady, she has developed the way she wants to get her story out in her words. | ||
| And this is something we've not seen of other First Ladies before her that have developed such an enterprise like this while they are sitting as First Lady. | ||
| But I think given the experience she had the first time, it was a hostile environment for Melania Trump to break through the noise and how she was defined. | ||
| And she's doing this now on her terms. | ||
| Why hostile, Anita? | ||
|
unidentified
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Well, I think the first back in 2016, when you think about the election and the response that many had in the country, I think she came into the role with a husband who was unpopular, perhaps. | |
| And that spilled over on how she was treated. | ||
| And I think that that made it difficult. | ||
| Even everything, if you think back on it, even her Christmas decorations were criticized in those first four years. | ||
| And everything that she tried to do was dominated by, I think, a reflection of how the country felt about her husband. | ||
| So what did you think of the movie itself? | ||
|
unidentified
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Well, I thought, and even the trailer, you know, the music is very dramatic in the trailer, and the music is very dramatic throughout the film. | |
| And it really cinematically, it's very fast-paced. | ||
| And it's, you know, you get a sense of all of the spaces where the Trumps live, where Mrs. Trump lives, Mar-a-Lago, Trump Tower, her likes and dislikes of music. | ||
| I mean, who knew that, you know, one of her favorite artists and songs is Michael Jackson and Billie Jean, which she actually sings at one point in one of the limo rides that she's in. | ||
| So you're getting a little bit of a sense of, you know, who she is, her sense of humor as well, her focus on her business and very methodical about her choices, about the inauguration, about her clothes for the inauguration. | ||
| So it's a peek behind the curtain that, you know, in her words, she's the voiceover for the film. | ||
| I mean, she's the dominant voice. | ||
| There are some other figures, of course, that work along with her. | ||
| But it's really her, her words, for an hour and 45 minutes. | ||
| If you'd like to join our conversation with Anita McBride about First Lady Melania Trump, other First Ladies, the role of political spouses, you can certainly do so. | ||
| Now, our lines are regional this time. | ||
| So if you're in Eastern or Central time zones, call us on 202-748-8000. | ||
| If you're in the Mountain or Pacific time zones, call 202-748-8001. | ||
| You can still use our line for texting. | ||
| That is 202-748-8003. | ||
| Anita, the film has been receiving criticism over its massive budget. | ||
| It is unusual for a documentary. | ||
| Amazon acquired the film for $40 million and then another $35 million just for marketing of the film. | ||
| According to the Wall Street Journal, the First Lady's cut of that is about 70%. | ||
| Is that fair criticism? | ||
| And put that in comparison to historical First Ladies and their memoirs and other ways that they have profited from the position. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, you know, to be honest, there is no comparison to any former First Lady because generally First Ladies do their memoirs, publish their memoirs, begin to do their post-White House life work after they've left the White House. | |
| And so, you know, this is different because this is a sitting First Lady who came into this role as a businesswoman. | ||
| And again, coming into the role a second time. | ||
| So she knows what the expectations are of her. | ||
| She's confident clearly in the way that she wants to use her platform this time for the various initiatives she's engaged in, but also knowing that it's a moment in time where she gets to start out by defining who she is and letting people know who she is in her own words, which she really did not have that opportunity in the first term. | ||
| So this is very different to any First Lady before her to do something like this. | ||
| Of course, the sums of money, you know, they're big, they're huge, no doubt about it. | ||
| Again, nothing to really compare that, to compare that to. | ||
| But that's clearly a negotiation that she had with Amazon and Amazon MGM, and they agreed to it. | ||
| And can you talk about some of the First Lady's initiatives during the second term? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, sure. | |
| Well, I think, you know, starting, you know, out right at the beginning of the administration, you know, this year at the inauguration, when she was made aware of a piece of legislation that was very important, the Take It Down Act, which, you know, is related to online safety of social media and how it was really being used in nefarious ways. | ||
| And the House had passed the bill, but it was stalled in the Senate. | ||
| And Senator Klobuchar of Minnesota shared that with her. | ||
| And I think, you know, Mrs. Trump took that on right away. | ||
| And one of her first acts as First Lady within weeks was going up to Capitol Hill, presiding over a bipartisan roundtable and had victims of this online porn talk about what was happening to them. | ||
| And within weeks, that legislation then was passed in the Senate and then not long after signed by the President. | ||
| I think that's an important use of a First Lady's platform using her voice, the power of her convening, the power of her office to shine a light on something that was important and important to the country. | ||
| And was it stalled for political reasons? | ||
| Probably. | ||
| But she helped to break through that. | ||
| So I think that's an important. | ||
| And there was also the issue of the children that were, the Ukrainian children that were kidnapped and taken to Russia. | ||
|
unidentified
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Absolutely. | |
| That's another one. | ||
| That, you know, on a diplomatic front, I mean, there are a few examples in our history of First Ladies who really have stepped out diplomatically and had a significant role. | ||
| This is one of them, to write to President Putin about the plight of the Ukrainian children who had been abducted in their country and were living in Russia, separated from their families, who knows how they were being treated, what was happening to them, and really elevating that. | ||
| And then dramatically talking about it from the state floor of the White House to announce to the world that she had written, she had a back channel to President Putin. | ||
| She had sent that letter to him through her husband when he had a summit meeting with him. | ||
| I think that was last August. | ||
| And then have this conversation through intermediaries. | ||
| And it resulted in the release of seven children, I think, at first. | ||
| And then another group of children have been returned. | ||
| And she said she won't stop until they're all reunited with their families. | ||
| All right, let's talk to them. | ||
| Yep, let's talk to callers. | ||
| Edna is calling from Illinois. | ||
| Good morning, Edna. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| How's everybody today? | ||
| My question was, how much education does Melania Trump have? | ||
| She's been in the country over 20 years, and you can hardly understand what she's saying. | ||
| Maybe she could do more if she could speak clearer. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Go ahead, Anita. | ||
| Education. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| Well, and I think that is one thing she does talk about in the film. | ||
| She's an immigrant to this country. | ||
| You know, it was owned. | ||
| She had only been a U.S. citizen for 10 years before she became First Lady, completely outside of the political role and had not really had a public role. | ||
| And look, as a child of immigrants myself, I have to say, you know, my grandparents never fully lost their accent either. | ||
| So I think I have a different perspective on that. | ||
| In terms of the education, which she does talk about in her book, you know, as well, she went to college but didn't finish college. | ||
| She chose another career, which was modeling, and did most of that in Europe before she came to the United States. | ||
| So I think, you know, again, understanding that this is not her first language, not her native language. | ||
| She's only the second born, foreign-born first lady, you know, in our history. | ||
| So we don't have a lot of examples like Mrs. Trump. | ||
| Linda in South Carolina, you're on the air, Linda. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yes, good morning. | |
| I must have almost one of the same questions as the previous call I had. | ||
| As far as Melania Trump, why was her preference to make a movie rather than maybe write another book about herself? | ||
| I think she just, my personal opinion, just did it for the money. | ||
| And mostly everything she does is for the money. | ||
| That's what my personal opinion. | ||
| But I think she would have been better off trying to maybe write another book than to make a movie. | ||
| And let's not glorify the movie like it's something out of this world. | ||
| You know, she's talking about this, she's talking about that. | ||
| But she's not going into her past as far as what she did previously. | ||
| And another thing, too, as far as her getting into this country as an immigrant, how did she get in here? | ||
| Maybe if her husband would understand that, then he wouldn't have so much animosity towards immigrants. | ||
| His wife is an immigrant. | ||
| So maybe if she would give some advice on how to get into this country or how she got into this country. | ||
| All right, let's ask Anita McBride about that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure, there's a couple of things there, and you may have to help her remind me of some of your other questions, but how she got into this country. | |
| And she does talk about that in her book and in her film that she came here on a specific visa that allowed her in her line of work to get here and then did go through the process, which I believe took about eight years before she did get her citizenship eventually. | ||
| And back in 2023, I think it was, she was invited by the archivist, then archivist Colleen Shogun, to the National Archives to preside over a naturalization ceremony of new American citizens that were being sworn in. | ||
| And she gave a speech about the process that she went through and how it was her dream to become an American citizen and the time that it took for that to happen. | ||
| So I don't, I have not discovered, maybe others have, and certainly we can discuss that, that the steps to becoming a citizen were not followed properly. | ||
| And I think, and she does say that, you know, she completely supports, you know, a immigration process that follows the law. | ||
| At least those are her words that she has said in her book and in interviews. | ||
| To your question about why would she not write another book? | ||
| I think it would be too soon because she just wrote the one that got released in October of 2024, right before the election, that did tell her story. | ||
| So I think another book is probably too soon unless she's going to write one, and I'm sure she will about her years as first lady this second term. | ||
| And I think you had some other questions, and I'm sorry if I didn't remember them or address them. | ||
| I think you did. | ||
| Susan is in Manchester, Maine. | ||
|
One Question, One Comment
00:14:22
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| Go ahead, Susan. | ||
| You're on the air. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Thank you. | ||
| I have one question and one comment. | ||
| I'll start with my question, I guess. | ||
| I'd like it keeps noting that, I'm sorry, the speaker notes that Melanie is a businesswoman. | ||
| I'd like to know what are the businesses that she runs that she ran. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The businesses that she ran before becoming First Lady, that she had a jewelry line, she had a cosmetics line, of course, and modeling is a business. | ||
| So those were her focus as her business before becoming First Lady. | ||
| Susan, did you know what this is? | ||
|
unidentified
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Now this is an enterprise. | |
| Having a film studio that she also announced just recently, the part of the production called Muse Films. | ||
| So that's a current business that she's going to have as First Lady. | ||
| That's definitely something different than any First Lady before her. | ||
| Susan, you had another question? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| You know, it was stated early on that Melania Trump has not had a voice in the first term or, you know, didn't tell us who she was. | ||
| I just want to remind everybody, she made her position very well known as she boarded the plane related to ripping children away from their parents, wearing a very offensive piece of apparel, which I won't mention here. | ||
| I mean, it's great she's got seven Ukrainian children back, but I think we can't, you know, let's not forget her position. | ||
| And I write about that in our book. | ||
| We do, in the section on Mrs. Trump. | ||
| That was not a moment that was a shining moment for a first lady. | ||
| And the jacket that you're talking about that she wore is, I don't really care, do you? | ||
| And as she was going down to Texas to visit children who had been separated from their parents. | ||
| And she was asked about that in interviews later, why she wore it, who the message was intended for. | ||
| And she said she intended that message for the media, who she felt had been bullying her up to that point. | ||
| I'm just stating what she has said. | ||
| Whether, you know, that, but I also have, as I've said to you, not a shining moment for a first lady. | ||
| I just generally don't like to see the words, I don't care, and first lady, in the same sentence. | ||
| And Anita, you were, as we mentioned in your bio, that you were the chief of staff for Laura Bush. | ||
| Can you talk about the Office of the First Lady? | ||
| How many employees are there? | ||
| What are they doing? | ||
| How are they paid? | ||
|
unidentified
|
So the number of staff for a First Lady has varied over time. | |
| I mean, Edith Roosevelt, wife of President Teddy Roosevelt, was the first First Lady to actually have a professional staff member on her team. | ||
| She hired a social secretary coming into the White House with five rambunctious children and then a stepchild as well and having to do all these social obligations and she really needed help. | ||
| So that was the first professional staff member. | ||
| Other First Ladies have added from that point in time. | ||
| Jackie Kenny was the first to have a press relations assistant. | ||
| Lady Bird Johnson, the first to have a formal press secretary who had a journalist background. | ||
| And then it wasn't really until, and then other First Ladies had, the numbers were growing over time. | ||
| But we also have had some First Ladies who didn't have a staff at all and paid for it out of their own pocket. | ||
| And Lou Hoover was one of those, paid for three people out of her own pocket to have help. | ||
| But Rosalind Carter, the Office of the First Lady as a formal entity with a budget associated with it, which comes out of White House appropriations, really that was not formalized until Rosalind Carter, where a budget was actually established for a First Lady. | ||
| She was the first to hire a staff director, a precursor to a chief of staff. | ||
| She had had a speechwriter. | ||
| Betty Ford had had a speechwriter too. | ||
| But she had a speechwriter, she had correspondence people, she had a scheduler, she had advanced people, projects people. | ||
| So the numbers started to grow. | ||
| And Anita, I was just going to ask about the typically those offices were in the East Wing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's right, which is no longer there. | |
| Yes, well, so this is a dramatic, you know, First Ladies in the early part of our country's history, they operated out of their bedrooms or their dressing rooms. | ||
| There was no office for them. | ||
| And again, as I said, there really weren't staff. | ||
| The East Wing was built in the mid-40s under the FDR administration as the numbers of White House staff was growing. | ||
| It was also wartime, and it was built to be over a bunker that was built low, deep below the ground. | ||
| But that's where the First Lady's offices traditionally were. | ||
| And do you know where they are now? | ||
|
unidentified
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Well, the demolition, of course, was very jarring to see it come down. | |
| First Lady staff now are dispersed in other places in the White House. | ||
| Some are operating on the ground floor of the White House, normally where the tours would go through. | ||
| Some are in the Eisenhower Executive Office building. | ||
| The plans that have been presented for the new East Wing, and of course we know the ballroom will be an extension of that, but the new East Wing will have new offices for the First Ladies, for the First Lady staff. | ||
| All right, and back to the calls to Judy in New Hampshire. | ||
| Judy, good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, thank you for taking my call. | |
| I have to say, I think she is one of the most gracious First Ladies we've had since Jacqueline Kennedy, and I'm a Republican. | ||
| So she's gracious, she's smart, and to that First Lady who called about her accent, most people in this country do have an accent. | ||
| She can speak seven languages. | ||
| Most of us cannot do that. | ||
| Another comment I have is how private she is, especially with her child. | ||
| I think that that's wonderful. | ||
| I don't think the media should have any information about the children of any First Lady. | ||
| They need to stay out of their lives. | ||
| I also own a hair salon, and I used to get the People magazine note I said I used to get because when she was First Lady the first time, they never once, except for one time, they had a picture on the front page of her and Michelle Obama pointing fingers at each other like they were having an argument. | ||
| But when you read the article, that was not the case. | ||
| They never, never, never had anything about Michelle Obama. | ||
| I mean, Melania Trump, sorry, Melania Trump from that point on in that magazine. | ||
| That's how hypocritical that magazine is. | ||
| I would never subscribe to that magazine again. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Judy, let's get a response. | ||
| Go ahead, Anita. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, I think to the point, that's actually a good point that you raised about her skill with languages. | |
| Course, raised in Europe. | ||
| She spoke more than one language and speaks several fluently. | ||
| And I look at that too, and I say that's valuable for a first lady who is on a global stage and can be an extension of diplomacy of our country when you can speak another language. | ||
| That's a good point that you raised. | ||
| They also on the protection of her son and her family. | ||
| And this is something that is really a threat of continuity for all First Ladies, from Martha Washington to Melania Trump, is they are first and foremost always concerned about the safety and security of their husbands and their family, and particularly their children. | ||
| There is actually a scene in this movie last night where the Secret Service and the director of the inaugural activities is presenting to the Trumps what all of the steps, what all of the events and movements would be for Inauguration Day. | ||
| And she asked the question: will we get out of the car and walk the inaugural parade, a section of it? | ||
| And is it safe? | ||
| And the Secret Service says to her, Yes, we believe that we'll be safe in these two areas. | ||
| And she was not convinced of that, you know, given that because there had been the two assassination attempts, you know, on her husband in the previous months. | ||
| Now, we know, of course, the inaugural parade was canceled, so it never had to happen. | ||
| But I wonder what would have been the ultimate decision. | ||
| Would she have overridden the request that they get out of the car and walk because she was worried about security? | ||
| Here's Anne. | ||
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unidentified
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Point on the magazines, if I can just say that. | |
| Go ahead. | ||
| Yes, that is something that did dominate Mrs. Trump's first term. | ||
| Where here is a woman who had been on many magazine covers and in many magazines before, now all of a sudden, as First Lady was not. | ||
| When we definitely know, you know, in modern times with magazines, first ladies are generally at least in the women's magazines, and she wasn't. | ||
| And Lake City, Tennessee, you're on the air, Ann. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| First, I'd like to say good morning to my good friend Carol, and I hope she's staying warm. | ||
| But I would just like to repeat what the lady before me said. | ||
| I just admire the fact that she has raised a son in this storm that she found herself in. | ||
| That the media and the attacks that have been thrown at her family, just last week, a Congresswoman attacked Baron, and that she has raised him, unlike the son that the Bidens raised, to be a man of courage. | ||
| And he spoke up for himself with great intelligence. | ||
| And I think that we have a First Lady that we can be proud of. | ||
| And I knew this morning when you were going to have this guest on here that there would be calls that just attack her. | ||
| But the one that attacked her first, her accent, how petty, how petty was that? | ||
| All right, and let's talk to George in Pennsylvania. | ||
| You're on the air, George. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, I just want to comment that I think it's great that she was able to come over here on an Einstein visa and get citizenship. | |
| And due to the times that we're in, I think it would be fitting and commemorative to our First Lady that we process others like that. | ||
| We've got these huge databases where we're rounding people up and with artificial intelligence and all that. | ||
| They can find out real quick once they ascertain somebody or go look for somebody if they're actually a threat to our society and give them the same gratuities, make them process them real easy so that they don't have to live in hiding. | ||
| You know, that's atrocious that people are in hiding. | ||
| They're afraid. | ||
| Stores are shutting down because businesses, you know, they can't sell products to people that won't come out. | ||
| And it just makes a lot more sense to put our resources, you know, in that area instead of, you know, physically, you know, rounding people up. | ||
| We could save a lot of money and a lot of time, and it's practical and it would be commemorative. | ||
| I mean, she's our first lady. | ||
| I know she's real important to Donald Trump, our president. | ||
| And these other people are important to their people. | ||
| All right. | ||
|
unidentified
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Why not do the thing? | |
| All right, George. | ||
| And that is an it's called an Einstein visa. | ||
| This is the BBC that has information on that. | ||
| What is the Einstein visa and how did Melania Trump get one? | ||
| If you want to read about that, it's at bbc.org. | ||
| Anita, last comment. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, I think, you know what, this is an important issue in our country. | |
| It's so contentious. | ||
| And we need laws passed that will be followed on immigration reform. | ||
| This is really one of the tragedies too, and one of the big regrets of the George W. Bush administration, where immigration reform had been one of the president's priorities, and it became, it was so close to passage in 2007 and fell apart in the middle of the night. | ||
| And I just, you know, our country is suffering over this issue right now and seeing people that, you know, we all know are doing this service, you know, workers and restaurants and businesses that are affected by this. | ||
| No doubt the caller raises a good point. | ||
| We need to fix this because we are a country of immigrants. | ||
| We are a country of laws as well. | ||
| And I'm a child of immigrants, so I feel strongly about this issue too. | ||
| It has worked before. | ||
| It needs to work again. | ||
| All right, that's Anita McBride, First Ladies Initiative Director at the American University, also former Chief of Staff to First Lady Laura Bush, and she's co-author of the book, Remember the First Ladies and U.S. First Ladies. | ||
| Anita, thank you so much for joining us today. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you for having me. | |
| Have a good day. | ||
| And past president, why are you doing this? | ||
| This is outrageous. | ||
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