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Jan. 27, 2026 15:47-16:21 - CSPAN
33:56
Washington Journal Brad Fitch

Brad Fitch’s Citizens Handbook for Influencing Elected Officials (2010, updated 2022) reveals Americans wield more power than they think—Congress receives 50M+ emails yearly, with some offices getting 180K, yet personalized messages matter most. His advocacy led to a FEMA mental wellness grant after the 2013 Boston Marathon bombing, signed by Biden in December 2022, and Alzheimer’s funding surged 700% due to grassroots efforts. Skeptics cite Citizens United and Musk’s donations, but Fitch argues access ≠ influence, as lawmakers prioritize constituent voices for political survival. Despite gerrymandering’s distortions, he insists most members feel obligated to listen—though not always act—proving direct engagement still shapes policy. [Automatically generated summary]

Participants
Main
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greta brawner
cspan 06:21
Appearances
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donald j trump
admin 02:25
Callers
rodney in arizona
callers 02:25
tony in alexandria
callers 20:50
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Speaker Time Text
Need to Back Up 00:06:47
donald j trump
I think they're the best poll numbers, the real poll numbers, I think we have the best poll numbers we've ever had.
But think of it.
If I were to run again, if I run again, would you have the best poll numbers we've ever had?
Thank you all very much.
unidentified
What did you think of Greg Abbott saying you need to recalibrate your response?
What did you make of that, sir?
Did you?
President, thank you.
For another absolutely, thank you.
Absolutely.
Coming up to our surface.
I need to back up.
I need you guys to back up.
You need to back up.
You need to back up.
You all need to back up.
Thank you.
And President Trump there speaking to reporters and locals in Urban Dale, Iowa, near where he's scheduled to make remarks on the U.S. economy.
We'll have that live starting shortly here on C-SPAN.
Until then, a look at some of today's Washington Journal.
greta brawner
At our table this morning, Brad Fitch.
He's the author of Citizens Handbook for Influencing Elected Officials.
Mr. Fitzville, in 2010, your first appearance on the Washington Journal for the first edition of your book, you said that Americans have more influence over their elected officials than they realize.
unidentified
That's right.
greta brawner
Has that changed?
donald j trump
No, it hasn't.
greta brawner
It's interesting.
donald j trump
The book is in two parts, and the second edition is twice the size, and all the changes came in the second part, which is about how to influence them.
Congress, in terms of how it interacts with constituents, hasn't changed that much in terms of what motivates them, what influences them.
greta brawner
And I realize this is a bit of a counter argument from what people see.
donald j trump
But the challenge is that most people don't see most of what the Congress does because you see the big debates over taxes and immigration and abortion and sometimes health care.
tony in alexandria
Most members of Congress, frankly, are not involved in those big debates.
That's leadership or committee chairs.
Most members of Congress are meeting with constituents to determine whether or not to increase funding for research on Alzheimer's or whether horses should be transported on double-decker trucks or whether ophthalmologists or optometrists get to use laser surgery at VA hospitals.
donald j trump
That's what most of constituents and most advocacy that's happening on Capitol Hill.
And when it comes to those issues, Congress very much listens to constituents who matter to them.
greta brawner
How do politicians interact with their constituents?
tony in alexandria
Well, interestingly, one of the things that has changed in the last 15 years since the first and second edition is they've continued to open up more doors and be more accessible.
Once again, I know that flies in the face of popular belief, but the two big technological changes to how Congress interacts with constituents are first the adoption of social media.
Members just jumped into that swimming pool with both feet with Twitter, now X, Instagram, and Facebook.
And then the other major development is telephone town hall meetings, which is especially during the pandemic, was one of the only ways that constituents could interact with them.
And the reason I see so much promise in telephone town hall meetings is they're scalable.
In 2021, more than 3 million Americans participated in a congressional telephone town hall meeting.
And there's very few other reforms to our democracy that has that kind of promise.
greta brawner
What has happened to the televised town halls?
Well, in person, I should say.
donald j trump
They have significantly diminished primarily for security purposes.
And I generally support that move because our in-person town hall is nice.
It's intimate.
tony in alexandria
But 25 to 50 people is the average number of people going to a telephone town hall compared to an in-person town hall.
In a telephone town hall, you get 3,000 to 5,000 constituents there.
And you do a bunch of those in a year.
You're really reaching a lot of your own constituents in a very meaningful, free-for-a-me way.
greta brawner
Let's talk about emails.
Congress now receives upwards of 50 million emails a year, according to estimates, with some House offices getting more than 180,000 annually.
Who is looking at these emails?
tony in alexandria
Well, every message that comes in is scanned and reviewed by a staff member.
Most of these emails are facilitated and generated by trade associations and nonprofits who are exercising their First Amendment right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
donald j trump
Sometimes people will see things that will get them upset and they'll email in.
tony in alexandria
I call that more of an organic, not a facilitated grassroots campaign.
donald j trump
And it's really based on the news.
I'll give you a statistic.
tony in alexandria
In 2017, when President Trump made certain nominations that upset many Americans, I'll take one case study, Senator Bob Casey of Pennsylvania.
donald j trump
And in the month of January of 2016, he got 1,000 emails from constituents on education.
tony in alexandria
In 2017, after some of the Trump nominations, he got 46,000.
So sometimes it is just something people see in the news that get them upset, they contact them, but then they're reviewed by staff.
donald j trump
Increasingly, they're starting to, I think, use AI to scan these to make it easier.
tony in alexandria
They're not letting computers respond, but they are using technology much better than they used to to try to keep a handle on these communications.
greta brawner
Are these emails taken seriously by the member, the elected official?
Absolutely.
tony in alexandria
Usually the members get these reports, usually on Fridays, and they'll say what mail has come in.
donald j trump
They'll keep track of that.
tony in alexandria
But individualizing communications, all the research that I did when I was at the Congressional Management Foundation shows that that is much more powerful than a form email.
When you localize it, talk about it personally, how it's going to affect you, your community, your family, you have much more influence.
greta brawner
We want our viewers to join us in this conversation this morning.
Have you tried to influence your elected official?
If so, we want to hear from you this morning.
If you're looking for recommendations on how to influence your elected official, call in this morning as well.
Democrats, 202-748-8000.
Republicans, 202-748-8001.
And Independents, 202-748-8002.
You can text if you don't want to call at 202-748-8003.
Just include your first name, city, and state.
Brad Fitch, is there a success story of constituents, either a constituent solely influencing an elected official or a group who have come together to change the minds of their elected representative?
Influencing Elected Officials 00:08:50
tony in alexandria
I'll give you both.
There's a great case study in the book that I heard about when I was doing research for the second edition.
There was a woman, Mania Cholinski, who lived in Boston and was at the Boston Marathon in 2013 when the bombing happened.
And, you know, people were killed, hundreds of people were injured.
She was fortunate, she felt, because she had not been physically injured, but she realized within a very short period of time that she was suffering from PTSD.
When she went to try to get support from the government for help to manage her mental wellness, she realized that FEMA, while they had grants for people and communities that were hurt physically due to natural disasters or terrorism, there was nothing for mental wellness.
Well, Manya told her congresswoman, Ianna Presley, who said, you're right, there ought to be a law.
And in December of 19, in 2022, Joe Biden signed into law a new grant program to help people who are injured mentally with mental wellness issues as a result of that one woman's story.
On the group side, one of the most successful group stories, I also did a case study in this is the Alzheimer's Association.
Alzheimer's is a devastating disease, dementia or Alzheimer's.
Two out of five Americans are either going to have dementia or Alzheimer's or are going to care for somebody who dies.
In the last 10 years, they have organized what they call an ambassador program where they get one person who's very educated, who's connected to the disease in some way, and they go talk to their member of Congress and say, there's thousands of your constituents that are affected by this.
It is one of the most successful grassroots efforts in decades.
In the last 10 years, the amount of money that the federal government spends to try to find a cure to Alzheimer's has increased by 700%.
And you don't read about these stories in the local news.
You know, success stories like this don't usually get the type of news coverage, and they should, because they really are our democracy working the way it's supposed to.
greta brawner
Why did you decide to write these handbooks, the first edition, the second edition?
tony in alexandria
I felt the story needed to be told.
It hadn't been told.
I had been working in and around the Congress, and I now have been working with the Congress for 40 years.
And some years ago, I was in the private sector and had an opportunity to work with a publishing house and said, hey, I've got these ideas on how to influence Congress and how Congress works.
I want to write in a very practical way that people find approachable and easy to read.
I'm a former broadcast reporter, so I do write in more of the spoken word than the written word.
donald j trump
And then I just got lucky.
tony in alexandria
The second edition, you know, the publisher came to me and said it's time to do an upgrade.
And I was delighted to jump into that project.
greta brawner
From the handbook, by design, the American Congress is slow and deliberative.
Individual legislators must wrestle with this deliberative system, blending their own beliefs into a legislative melting pot that ideally produces positive societal outcomes.
They use a kind of political math to make decisions, weighing multiple factors when determining whether to vote for a bill, co-sponsor legislation, or support funding for an initiative.
When all the details are burned away, legislators generally follow three voices when making a decision.
One member of Congress called these voices the three H's, heart, head, and health, meaning political health.
tony in alexandria
I love that story because I got that from a chief of staff, the three H's.
And to go into more detail, head, they like studying issues and making decisions based on their own judgment after studying an issue.
I was interviewing a member of Congress for the book, and I was asking him about a difficult decision he had to make.
And he said, yeah, I'm now in favor of what was called cap and trade legislation, which was anti-climate, pro-climate change to help with the climate.
donald j trump
And I said, wait, you're from a coal-producing state.
Isn't that a little unusual?
tony in alexandria
Why did you take out this position that is pro-climate change relief?
And he pointed to a pile of papers in the corner of his office.
He said, I read the UN report on climate change.
donald j trump
They are influenced by these things.
tony in alexandria
Heart, personal stories.
All the research on the psychology and the neuroscience of persuasion tells us that emotional stories are more powerful than rational arguments.
Once again, I was interviewing a member and asked him about a difficult decision.
And he said, I was torn on what to do on whether or not to support or oppose research for stem cell research, which is very controversial at the federal level.
And I said, what changed your mind?
donald j trump
And he said, well, I was meeting with a young constituent.
tony in alexandria
He's a 17-year-old, young man.
He said, Congressman, I have juvenile diabetes.
It's my hope that this research one day might lead to a cure to me and others like me.
And the Congressman told me how he did further research, and he ended up co-sponsoring legislation that would provide federal funding for stem cell research.
And he was a pro-life Republican.
And then head political health.
They're always going to be doing the math.
They're always going to look at how many constituents are affected by a particular issue.
Is this going to affect them politically?
And they want to know how many people are really going to be helped or hurt as a result of their decision.
greta brawner
Let's get to calls.
Thomas is first in Daytona Beach, Florida, an independent.
Thomas?
rodney in arizona
Yes.
You know, usually if I try to contact Congress, I don't try to call them.
I email them.
But I'll be honest with you, there's two reasons I think we're just wasting our time.
One is Citizens United.
I mean, you have people like Elon Musk that contribute $200 and what, $71 million to Donald Trump's last presidential bid here.
The other thing is Congress, so many of them now are doing the insider trading that I don't really think that they, I think everything we tell them goes in one ear and out the other.
greta brawner
Okay, we'll take those two points, Thomas.
Brad Fitch.
tony in alexandria
Well, I'm not going to touch campaign finance reform.
I'm assuredly not an expert in that field.
greta brawner
Just the influence, though, of corporations versus grassroots.
tony in alexandria
You know, I'll give you an example.
Thomas, I was doing a focus group for my book, and I asked the chiefs of staff, who has more influence on you?
Someone who gives $1,000 to your campaign or someone who goes to a town hall meeting.
And they kind of looked at me quizzically and one replied, it depends upon who has the best argument.
unidentified
We listen to both.
tony in alexandria
The reality is, yes, campaign contributors do get the ears of members of Congress.
I mean, that is just a known fact.
The research on that has been actually pretty clear and convincing.
But the research also shows is there's no correlation between campaign contributions and legislative outcomes.
I really hope, Thomas, you rethink contacting your member of Congress.
You've got some great lawmakers in Florida, and I know they want to hear from you.
If you write an individual letter that just says, this is my concern, or an email, it will get read.
The response may not be very well written.
That's one complaint I have with my members in Congress: they are a little robotic in how they respond, but they do read everything that comes into the mail.
greta brawner
Thomas says he emails, how do you try to influence your elected officials?
Democrats, tell us at 202-748-8000.
Republicans, dial in at 202-748-8001.
And Independents, 202-748-8002.
Mike in Texas, a Republican.
Hi, Mike.
unidentified
Yes, hi.
rodney in arizona
How are you doing?
greta brawner
Morning.
rodney in arizona
I'm set up about the taxes, property taxes going up, and I'm not able to work because I'm disabled and I need help.
Some reduction in taxes, at least.
greta brawner
So, Mike, how have you tried to Mike?
And how have you tried to communicate this to your local officials who set the property taxes?
rodney in arizona
And an email, then a registered letter, and it doesn't get there.
greta brawner
Okay.
unidentified
For some reason, it takes six weeks for the post office to send the letters downtown to San Antonio Courthouse about property taxes.
greta brawner
All right, so Mike has sent a letter.
What would you suggest, Brad Fitch?
Show up at meetings that they have about property taxes at the local level.
What do you do?
tony in alexandria
Yeah, I do agree with that strategy of reaching out and communicating.
I'll offer a couple other pieces of advice.
One, going in groups helps.
So if you're with a homeowners association and you want to meet with your local county council member or city council member because you're concerned about property taxes and you pull together five or six people at your home in someone's living room or go into their office, that's going to make more of a difference than just one person.
Influencing Elected Officials 00:12:43
tony in alexandria
Again, the political math is important.
Know your issue.
And by the way, the fact that you are affected by it, that makes you an expert.
I know people don't believe that they're experts, but to an elected official, if you're affected by that issue, they're going to listen to you more.
There's two types of people that lobby Congress and state and local officials.
greta brawner
There's people with an opinion and people with an interest.
tony in alexandria
Someone gets up at a town hall meeting and says, Congresswoman, I think we ought to get our troops out of Syria.
Congresswoman's going to listen to that person.
If the next person gets up and says, Congresswoman, I think we ought to get out of Syria because my daughter is stationed there.
That second person has a completely different relationship with that elected official.
They literally have skin in the game and they have more influence.
greta brawner
What about polls?
I mean, I want to show this YouGov poll that we were talking about earlier today based on what you know was the shooting of in Minneapolis of the man there, justified or not justified.
And you can see the answers there.
20% said not, was justified, 48% said not justified, 32% said not sure.
How influential, not this topic, but how influential are polls like this conducted in snapshot of time on politicians?
tony in alexandria
At the national level, when we're talking about these big federal issues like the one you just talked about, immigration reform, they definitely shape members of Congress's thinking and behavior.
And I'm speaking as someone who worked intimately with members of Congress and was literally in the room when the decisions were made to do certain things.
So when you're talking about these major issues, abortion, immigration, taxes, sometimes health care, you can definitely see the movement like you.
I'm a reader of all the Washington publications and you can see what's going on right now with Republicans on immigration and on health care.
And those polls are moving it.
But I'll tell you what else is moving it is the calls into their offices and the emails they're getting into their offices.
That really, when they start seeing those volumes go up and they know that it's largely organic and not facilitated, they pay attention.
greta brawner
What about internal polling conducted by research firms that may be affiliated with the party versus polls conducted, youGov, AP may get a poll done.
Other news outlets will have polls done.
tony in alexandria
The way I describe it is for members of Congress making a decision, it's like a mosaic.
And data can come in from a variety of sources.
greta brawner
It can come from their campaign polls.
tony in alexandria
It can come from national polls.
greta brawner
It could come from someone they met at their kids' Little League game.
tony in alexandria
In fact, one of my most famous stories I heard was a member of Congress was coaching first base at his son's Little League game and a woman, mom from the other team came over and gave him a lecture on Middle East peace policy.
And the reason I love that is because he couldn't leave first base.
She's got him trapped and for three outs.
And so, you know, yeah, they do observe it.
I knew one senator, she told me how she would go shopping at the grocery store and she loved doing that.
She said it would take two to three hours.
She learned very early on, don't get the ice cream at the beginning of the visit because it's going to melt by the time you get out.
And she just talked to people in the aisles and they're like, amazing.
United States Senator doing her own grocery shopping.
But she said it was a great way to stay in touch with people.
greta brawner
We are talking about how you influence your elected officials.
Brad Fitch is with us and he is the author of Citizens Handbook for Influencing Elected Officials.
You get to call in and ask him questions about how it's done.
Caroline in Alliance, Ohio, Democratic Color.
unidentified
Well, hello.
And I am a Democrat and I live in Ohio and all my representatives are Republican.
And I have always sent through the years a few emails, and I've written a letter or two.
But I'm more likely now just to make a phone call.
It's just so easy to dial a number.
tony in alexandria
And I always wonder if these Republican representatives, senators, whatever, just look up.
unidentified
They always want to know my, am I from the state of Ohio?
Am I, they represent me?
And they always want my address and phone number.
tony in alexandria
And then in my mind, they'll look me up on a voting roll, find out I'm a Democrat, and just throw my suggestion away.
greta brawner
Well, let's take that.
Can they even look her up on a voter roll?
tony in alexandria
No.
I mean, data companies can, but there are so, as Greta said, they're getting tens of thousands of emails and letters and calls a month.
They don't have time to do that.
They represent all constituents.
Again, one of the myths out there is there is a huge dividing line in congressional offices between their official activities and their campaign activities.
They do not mix.
And when they do, they usually get caught and sometimes get in trouble either with the ethics committee or with election laws.
I will say the reason they're asking you your address is both by law and by practice, members of Congress can only represent their own constituents.
They're not allowed to use their office resources to talk to other constituents in the state.
Again, this is the republic that Mr. Hamilton and Mr. Madison gave us, that we are represented in a representative democracy.
It's not a parliament, so it's not the party that is representing you.
It is your individual lawmaker.
And the challenges with phone calls, Carolyn, is that, you know, a phone call, you really can communicate up or down, yay or nay.
greta brawner
That's it.
tony in alexandria
And that's the data point that the office collects, and it does go into a tally.
But with an email or at a telephone town hall meeting, you can be much more expressive and much more influential.
greta brawner
Here's a question from Joe on X to you, Mr. Fitch.
Is there any evidence that communicating with elected officials via social media is effective?
unidentified
Yes.
tony in alexandria
When I worked at the Congressional Management Foundation, we did surveys of congressional staff.
And one of the things that we saw is they are constantly scanning X and Facebook and Instagram.
And it's just those three for comments.
Now, often they're looking for influencers or people at the highest level, but they don't have consistent systems for reporting that data out as they do with email messages coming into the congressional office where they have better, more sophisticated technology to tally what those pros and cons are.
So with social media, it's much more of a cacophony that they're trying to capture.
But the advantage of X is it's wicked faster, right?
You know, if somebody says something on Twitter, you get five or six people within the same hour talking about a topic on Twitter.
The communications director will bring that to the lawmaker.
In fact, I'll give you an example from C-SPAN on how I saw it happen once.
I was waiting to come on the show, Washington Journal, some years ago, and a congresswoman was on Washington Journal and was taking questions on the debt ceiling.
And her press secretary and I were in the waiting room.
And she's out there looking at her phone and she's watching the congresswoman.
And she's like, oh, they like that on Twitter.
Oh, they didn't like that.
She's getting a line-by-line analysis of her.
greta brawner
Real-time reaction.
unidentified
Real-time.
tony in alexandria
And I asked the press secretary, is the congresswoman going to see that?
She said, oh, yes, she's going to grab this out of my hand before she gets to the elevator.
unidentified
She loves this.
tony in alexandria
I mean, the thing about social media and Congress is this instant gratification or the opposite.
donald j trump
And you've got to remember, these politicians want to please you.
tony in alexandria
They are politicians.
That's why they went into this.
One member of Congress said to me famously, members of Congress are still middle children trying to make their father happy.
greta brawner
What do you think about them coming on a program like this where they get to hear from real people, sit down and do an interview and take questions and comments from the public?
donald j trump
They love it.
That's why they like telephone town hall meetings is because they get a very raw assessment of what's going on.
tony in alexandria
And that's why many of them like in-person town hall meetings.
If they're doing in-person town hall meetings, then they're doing it because they like it.
And if they start hearing the same thing in different parts of their district, they feel like that's the tip of the iceberg and they're capturing it.
Remember, I was working as a communications director for a House member, and we're in Glen Burney, and we hear a question in Glen Burney, Maryland, and then we go to Annapolis the same week having a telephone town hall meeting.
Same question comes up from a different person.
The congressman comes back to the chief of staff in Washington and says, Everybody's talking about it.
I'm like, two people are talking about it, Congressman.
But anyway, that's their impression.
So, yeah, they really do listen carefully and kind of use this as another gauge, another sort of stone in the mosaic of information they collect.
greta brawner
David, in Independence, Louisiana, Independent, good morning.
donald j trump
Good morning.
tony in alexandria
Mr. Finke, I have a capital advantage.
unidentified
I don't know what it's called nowadays.
tony in alexandria
Mine says 102nd Congress has all the contact for the politicians, which just I can't understand because I personally wouldn't shake hands with a politician.
unidentified
None of them.
tony in alexandria
They have negatively impacted my life, my wife's.
I see my mom and daddy work till they drop dead.
And their little small business, they didn't build that.
unidentified
All right.
tony in alexandria
And I know for a fact, because of history, they negatively jerk my grandparents around.
All they have was World War I, Prohibition, the Depression, World War II, 40, 50 years out of their life.
I'm just sick of them.
donald j trump
And maybe in Louisiana, things are different.
rodney in arizona
You know, we have some weird politicians here, but me and my wife have personally tried to contact all of them.
That's Cassidy and Kennedy and our representatives and all.
And we have never gotten any response from anyone.
None of them.
greta brawner
All right.
David, Brad Fitch, talk about the sentiment there because you see it reflected in polls that people don't trust members of Congress, their approval ratings are very low.
Does that mean that elected officials are hearing from constituents less and less?
tony in alexandria
Oh, I don't think they're hearing from them less and less, but I do understand the sentiment with what people see in the media that the coverage is so negative.
But I've got to tell you, I've been affiliated with the United States Congress for 40 years as a staffer and as a consultant.
And here's the myth I'm going to bust up.
They're not bad people.
They're good people.
donald j trump
They're decent public servants, sometimes trapped in a system that doesn't seem to work for us.
tony in alexandria
But I'm telling you, most of these people are really good-hearted individuals.
Now, I'm not saying that the American public doesn't occasionally send a CAD or a criminal to the halls of Congress.
donald j trump
They do.
We've had some real doozies lately.
But those are the exceptions.
tony in alexandria
Most members of Congress are really decent, hardworking public servants.
And let me give you another data point that shows that they're listening to constituents.
When I worked at the Congressional Management Foundation, we did surveys of congressional staff between 2003 and 2023.
We did five major surveys, and we always asked this question: if your member of Congress has not arrived at a firm decision on an issue, how much influence might the following advocacy strategies directed to the Washington office have on his or her decision?
So hundreds of staffers answering this question.
In 20 years of surveys, the number one answer always was in-person visit from constituents.
donald j trump
Now, you contrast that with the cynicism people have.
They think they're not listening, but they really, really are.
tony in alexandria
I joke, members of Congress are the best pollsters in the world because they're the only pollsters who, if they get the answer wrong, they lose their job.
donald j trump
So they have a vested interest, both morally and politically, to understand the mood and the sentiment of their constituents.
greta brawner
What about the influence of lobbyists versus those constituents visiting them?
donald j trump
I don't even use the term lobbyists anymore.
I call them professional advocates versus citizen advocates.
tony in alexandria
And I write about this in the book: that they both play essential roles in our democracy.
Professional advocates are usually national experts on a particular policy.
Subject matter experts, usually former congressional staff.
donald j trump
Citizens are local experts.
tony in alexandria
They're the ones that can localize it and personalize it.
donald j trump
Lobbyists are not the evil caricature that you see on television and in the movies.
tony in alexandria
They're actually, most of them are representing a disease or a doctor in Washington, D.C., because we have a lot of diseases in a lot of different medical professions.
And their credibility is essential to their own welfare and their financial future.
Because if you get a lobbyist who starts BSing their member of Congress or their person that they're meeting with, they're not going to get invited back.
They have to be very good experts on their field in their topic when they're interacting with lawmakers.
Gerrymandering and Constituent Influence 00:05:27
greta brawner
Carol in Elgin, Texas, Democratic caller.
rodney in arizona
Yes, thank you, Mr. Fitz, for taking the question.
And thank you, Greta, for being with C-SPAN.
C-SPAN does a wonderful job.
I always support them.
Mr. Fitch, I live in Texas, and we had horrible flooding over the summer.
Dozens of young children marched away and lost their lives.
And when they called a special session to deal with it, the phone rang from the White House and Donald Trump called and said, I need five more congressional seats.
I need it gerrymandered even worse than it is.
And so they pushed all of that discussion they were going to have about all of that flooding and the horror that it had caused.
And they pulled out the maps.
They literally pulled out the maps the next day and they had them up there and they started redistricting for five more seats.
And the Democrats left the state and they stalled it as long as they could.
But the bottom line is they gerrymandered Texas again.
It's been gerrymandered for a long time in favor of it, but they gerrymandered it again for five more seats for Republicans.
And then they went back to the normal business that they said they were there to do.
greta brawner
Well, Carol, let's take that point.
How much influence does the president or leadership of their own parties have over them and how they react and vote on legislation, topics of the day, versus their constituents?
tony in alexandria
Well, let me separate the leadership with the president.
The president has as much influence related to how popular the president is at any given time.
You know, the president's very popular, Ronald Reagan, I think of the Reagan years and first four years, five years of the Reagan presidency, had an enormous amount of influence on both Democrats and Republicans.
People have to remember that during the entire time that President Reagan was president, he had a House of Representatives allegedly controlled by the Democrats.
But he still got his agenda passed, and that was in part because of his personal popularity.
Leadership, on the other hand, in the United States Congress has less influence than constituents do, unless it's one of those super big, major issues like the Affordable Care Act or taxes or something like that.
But most of the issues that people are contacting their lawmaker about aren't those major issues.
And members of Congress are free to support or oppose their constituent views.
Leadership doesn't really care whether or not you support more funding for Alzheimer's research or whether or not you're going to propose a bill that's going to change how the EPA regulates ponds on farms.
I mean, that's just not something leadership cares about.
And I will tell you, one other area where leaders are matter to members of Congress in voting is when a particular leader, let's say a committee chairman, is seen as a subject matter expert.
I remember looking at a member once and he would always look to this one particular Armed Services Committee chairman and ask his staff, how is he voting on this?
And that's where leadership, and it was not because of influence or power, it's because the lawmaker respected the chairman's views as an expert.
greta brawner
What about when you have a national debate and it's a tight vote in the House or the Senate and leadership is twisting arms behind the scenes?
And that lawmaker, especially from a swing district, is saying to themselves, I do not want the headline in my local paper to say, I saved X or whatever it is.
tony in alexandria
And it could cost them their seat.
I think back to the vote that Marjorie Margolis-Mesvenski took in 1993 to support the Clinton tax bill.
And she was, I mean, on C-SPAN, she was walking down the aisle and their leadership was literally arm in arm with her as she changed her vote.
unidentified
And she lost her seat as a result of it.
tony in alexandria
So, yeah, that is something that goes into the calculus where they have to weigh their own conscience versus their political future.
And frankly, by and large, most of the times they're going to go with their political future and try to keep their seat.
It's such a high-profile vote that they think they might lose their seat over it.
greta brawner
One last call.
Tony, Alexandria, Virginia, Republican.
tony in alexandria
Yes.
I was just curious, with all the gerrymandering going on, does it really matter for most of these Congress people what my opinion is?
I mean, I've got a Democratic congressman in my district, and I've called him once, and I felt like, you know, the people, the Democrats were actually rooting him on to not really pay attention or care about my concerns.
greta brawner
All right, Tony.
tony in alexandria
Gerrymandering.
Well, I, like many Americans, am appalled by both what's happening in gerrymandering.
I think it's absolutely unconstitutional, to be honest with you, in my opinion.
I'm not an expert in gerrymandering, but when I see states like North Carolina or Virginia disenfranchise a significant portion of whether it's Democrats or Republicans, I'm just appalled by it.
And I don't think we should have it.
But again, no one's listening to me when it comes to that stuff.
Tony, I would say that, you know, and I do know you're a member of Congress.
I'm not going to mention who it is because I'm a Virginian and I'm in the district.
Now I'm in the district next to you.
They do listen.
They do pay attention.
Most members of Congress, when they get elected, feel that they represent all of their constituents, not just 50% plus one in a primary.
They really do have that both moral and political will to try to listen to you.
It doesn't mean they're going to do what you say.
You know, as I said, they factor a lot of different things into their decision-making process, but they do feel it's their responsibility to listen.
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