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Jan. 25, 2026 07:00-10:01 - CSPAN

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Washington Journal 01/25/2026

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Second Fatal Shooting in Minnesota 00:02:18
	Along with your calls and comments live, former Florida Democratic Congressman Jim Davis and Republican strategist Adam Goodman talk about Campaign 2026 and other political news of the week.
	And then journalist Ken Rosen will talk about his book, Polar War, about how the Arctic region has transformed into what he calls the epicenter of a new Cold War.
	Washington Journal is next.
	Join the conversation.
	Good morning.
	It's Sunday, January 25th, 2026.
	A second fatal shooting by federal immigration officers in Minnesota has Minneapolis residents reeling.
	Local and national leaders calling for an independent investigation and the Trump administration defending agents on the ground in the state.
	This morning, we want your thoughts on this still developing story.
	Democrats can call in at 202-748-8000, Republicans at 202-748-8001, and Independents at 202-748-8002.
	If you'd like to text us, that number is 202-748-8003.
	Please be sure to include your name and where you're writing in from.
	We're also on social media at facebook.com/slash C-SPAN and on X at C-SPANWJ.
	Now, let's get the latest on this story from a local news outlet, the Minneapolis Star Tribune, which says the latest Minnesota reels after second fatal shooting by federal agents, saying that federal agents fatally shot a man Saturday morning in South Minneapolis, setting off confrontations between protesters and agents at the scene.
	It was a second fatal shooting this month involving federal agents who have arrived en masse in Minnesota as part of a massive immigration enforcement operation.
	Now, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz sharply criticized the Trump administration after that shooting yesterday.
	Well, I spoke twice this morning, shortly after I received the call of this shooting.
	I spoke with the president's chief of staff, and first request was to get her people out of there, to get these federal agents out of there.
	They were going to cause more chaos.
	And second call is, with no uncertain terms, that we will investigate this.
Federal Agents Under Fire 00:04:18
	We will not be stonewalled.
	What we've already seen, and you saw it this morning, before any investigation is done, you have the most powerful people in the federal government spinning stories and putting up pictures and unrelated people who we don't know anything about and a picture of a firearm to try and spin a narrative.
	And I just, I ask Americans, this will end when enough Americans say this will end.
	Do I have any confidence Donald Trump will do the right thing?
	No, I don't have a lot of confidence Donald Trump will do the right thing.
	I do have a lot of confidence that the majority of the American people will do the right thing.
	And I think there cannot be very many people across this country looking right now after all the reporting that's been done, after everything that's been said under the pretense that they are here about immigration reform, and quit referring to these people as law enforcement.
	They are not law enforcement.
	We have law enforcement who do an incredible job.
	And to listen to Greg Bovino denigrate the work of our people who are out there cleaning up their mess.
	No, I don't have a lot of confidence that he himself will do it.
	But here's what I do have confidence in.
	There's a whole lot of Republicans for whatever reason cannot find their spine.
	But they might find the ability to know that they're not going to win another election as long as they live unless they stand up for what's right and stand up for the rule of law and stand up for human decency.
	And that's the moment.
	More on this story.
	Back again from the Minneapolis Star Tribune.
	The Department of Homeland Security said the man was armed with a gun and two magazines of ammunition and circulated a photo of the weapon.
	DHS said a Border Patrol agent fired in self-defense.
	The Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, BCA, the state's chief investigative agency, said it was not allowed to access the scene.
	The man killed was identified as Alex Jeffrey Predty, 37 of Minneapolis.
	Video shows several agents wrestling the man to the ground and shooting him multiple times.
	Times, at a press conference, Customs and Border Patrol commander in charge, Greg Bovino, recounted the events leading up to the shooting and claimed that the individual killed was carrying that weapon and ammunition intending to harm agents.
	During this operation, an individual approached U.S. Border Patrol agents with a 9mm semi-automatic handgun.
	The agents attempted to disarm the individual, but he violently resisted.
	Fearing for his life and the lives and safety of fellow officers, a Border Patrol agent fired defensive shots.
	Medics on the scene immediately delivered medical aid to the subject, but the subject was pronounced dead at the scene.
	The suspect also had two loaded magazines and no accessible ID.
	This looks like a situation where an individual wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement.
	Then, about 200 rioters arrived at the scene and began to obstruct and assault law enforcement.
	Crowd control measures have been deployed for the safety of the public and law enforcement.
	This situation is evolving and more information is forthcoming.
	The officer was highly trained and had been serving as a border patrol agent for eight years.
	The officer has extensive training as a range safety officer and less lethal officer.
	Now there's already political fallout to this shooting in Minnesota.
	Here's reporting from Politico that the shutdown risks grow as Democrats revolt after the Minneapolis shooting.
	Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said Senate Democrats will not provide the votes to fund immigration enforcement, part of a six-bill package set for action next week.
	More on this, that Congress is on a path towards a partial government shutdown next week after Senate Democrats vowed to oppose Department of Homeland Security funding following the killing of the 37-year-old Minneapolis resident by federal agents on Saturday.
Gun Rights Groups Respond 00:12:17
	Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said in a statement Saturday night the Democrats would not help advance the six-bill spending package set for consideration next week as long as it includes DHS funding.
	Republicans will need Democratic support in order to clear a 60-vote hurdle to advance the funding bill.
	Once again, we're looking for your thoughts on this story.
	Our phone lines for Democrats 202-748-8000, Republicans 202-748-8001, and Independents at 202-748-8002.
	And if you do happen to be calling in from Minnesota, you can call in at 202-748-8003.
	Let's start our calls with Melvin in Richmond, Virginia, on our line for Democrats.
	Good morning, Melvin.
	Good morning, Kimberly.
	Thank you for taking my call.
	Kimberly, as always, may you live long and prosper.
	Kimberly, it always seems that when I get my chance to call once a month, and I do call once a month on Sundays, is that the heart of the problems in America is the same.
	And it's back to racism, okay, because the Republican Party basically is the party of races.
	Now, this whole thing, of course, goes along with the number one thing, which is immigration.
	That's the number one story, you know, for the last ever how many years.
	And, of course, immigration, we know immigration is about America's fear of the other, you know, the black and the brown people.
	And so, either whether you're Somali or whether you're Latina, you know, it's, you know, white America, the Republicans, of course, not all white Americans, but the Republicans have this fear.
	And, of course, the president exploits that fear by saying, oh, that the people from the other countries are here, you know, and that they're racist and that they're killers.
	And that if you sympathize with them, and even though you may be white, you sympathize with them.
	All of a sudden, now you're a terrorist, you know, and it's okay to shoot you, whether you're white or whether you no matter what your color is.
	Because if you go up against us because of Republicans being racist, then you deserve to die.
	And it doesn't matter, you know, all of a sudden, you know, after one day, they know this guy's history so much, you know.
	And of course, the thing is, when they have the policeman that was up there, you know, giving out his little statement, you know, we're going to probably find out that that's not true because they don't believe in the truth.
	Trump doesn't believe in the truth.
	And none of his people that work for him believe in the truth.
	And of course, it's all going back to, you know, people of color bad, white people good.
	Make America great again means make America white again.
	Thank you very much, Kimberly.
	Ralph is in Charlottesville, Virginia, on our line for Republicans.
	Good morning, Ralph.
	Good morning, ma'am.
	I appreciate you taking my comment.
	Ralph, could you please turn down the volume on your television and then go ahead and continue with your comment?
	Yes, ma'am.
	We have a governor and a mayor in Minnesota, Minneapolis, or whatever.
	They are.
	Ralph, I need you to turn down the volume on your computer, on your TV, so that we can hear you clearly.
	Can you hear me now?
	All right.
	Ralph, I'm going to come back to you once you can get that handled.
	Let's go to Al in Fort Lauderdale, Florida on our line for independence.
	Good morning, Al.
	Good morning.
	Just on that racist thing, I suggest people research the most racist city was St. Augustine, Florida, the early 1960s.
	That's what Martin Luther King said.
	Totally controlled by Democrats because they wanted to keep their political power.
	What broke that up in St. Augustine was a Republican governor.
	Read about Will Drew Wilson, and him is a racist.
	So I suggest the Democrats look at their own history.
	It's always about keeping power, and that's what this is about.
	This gentleman that had the gun, clearly he hasn't been, that's the worst gun owner.
	I'm broad guns, but that's the worst gun owner because the person was not trained.
	When I get pulled over, I tell the officer I am armed, and I put my hands on the steering wheel.
	Very dangerous when you bring a weapon around a law enforcement operation.
	And another thing, where were the local police?
	State police were not there to assist in crowd control.
	So these are victims of the left-wing media complex and a political narrative.
	And I assume that they don't want murderers and rapists out of the country.
	Al, if I can just pause you for a moment because you raised the issue of the gun owner, the fact that the victim of this shooting was a gun owner, I want to read you some reporting with some responses from gun rights groups and get your thoughts on that.
	The headline here from the New York Times, this is widely reported elsewhere, that gun activists bridle at suggestion that pistol justified killing.
	The National Rifle Association and others have argued citizens need guns to fend off government.
	The killing of Alex Jeffrey Pretty, who carried a pistol, set off debate.
	Some high-profile gun rights activists and groups bristled on Saturday at government officials' claims that federal agents may have been justified in killing a Minneapolis man during a protest because he was carrying a pistol.
	The right to bear arms in public has been a mainstay of the gun rights movement.
	On Saturday, a Los Angeles federal prosecutor, Bill S.A. Lee, became a magnet for outrage when he wrote on social media, if you approach law enforcement with a gun, there is a high likelihood that they will be legally justified in shooting you.
	Don't do it.
	Gun Owners of America, one of the country's largest gun advocacy groups, said in its own posting that it condemned this untoward comment.
	Going on a little bit later, the National Rifle Association referred to federal agents as jackbooted government thugs in a 1995 Miller.
	But in a statement Saturday night, the NRA put blame for the shooting on Governor Tim Walz of Minnesota and other radical progressive politicians.
	It said their calls to dangerously interject oneself into legitimate law enforcement activities have ended in violence.
	As there is with any officer-involved shooting, there will be a robust and comprehensive investigation that takes place to determine if the use of force was justified.
	In a separate post, the NRA called Mr. S.A. Lee's comments dangerous and wrong.
	Responsible public voices should be awaiting a full investigation, not making generalizations and demonizing law-abiding citizens, it said.
	Al, what do you think of these statements from these gun rights groups about the shooting?
	Why would someone bring a weapon to a peaceful protest?
	We can legally do a lot of things.
	I used to visit my elementary school.
	Would anyone think of going on a school property today?
	Would they be justified in calling the police to check on me?
	Of course, the culture has changed.
	So you don't go into that circumstance with a weapon.
	So they're going to have to find out exactly what happened here.
	But I wouldn't open myself up to that.
	This has been hostile against ICE.
	That's what this is about.
	And amazing.
	The Obama administration, no one knew what ICE did under the Obama administration.
	This is political theater.
	And I feel bad for the two victims here that have been indoctrinated by this left-wing thinking.
	So tell me why we are keeping murderers and rapists here.
	Why?
	Why did we let 12 million people over that border when the Biden administration said it wasn't happening?
	This is insanity.
	And if they're going to go into the midterms and the next presidential election with this, good luck with that.
	All right.
	Next up is Ryan in Edmonds, Washington on our Line for Democrats.
	Good morning, Ryan.
	Two points real quick.
	It's amazing now that MAGA supporters and Republicans are suddenly against the right to carry a firearm legally.
	This guy was A right to carry a concealed weapon legally.
	Now, Republicans are so against the Second Amendment all of a sudden.
	But my main point for calling was: we all know now from various coverages and various videos seen.
	Those who are not up to speed on this case may not know that while Alex was on the ground and the officers were on his back, one of the officers, one of the ICE thugs, I should call them, because they're poorly trained thugs, is what they are.
	They're not very well trained.
	One of them grabbed, pulled out the pistol out of his holster and ran across the street with it, disarmed the man.
	He was completely disarmed after the gun was removed.
	Then the other officers opened fire.
	So basically, my point is he was unarmed at the time, unarmed at the time when the officers killed him.
	It's just a shame.
	He had his back turned to him, trying to help a lady up off the ground who one of the thugs violently shoved.
	He was there trying to help her get up and get away.
	And at the time of the shooting, he was unarmed.
	The gun was taken by one of these thugs.
	And that's my main point.
	It's very obvious.
	What Ryan was discussing there has been echoed by some reporting on this.
	Here's reporting from CNN that videos appear to show that a federal officer took the gun away from Alex Predi just before the fatal shooting, according to a CNN analysis.
	That story going on to say that a CNN video analysis appears to show a federal immigration officer removing a gun from Alex Predi just prior to officers fatally shooting him.
	Bystander video shows one agent reaching into the scrum of other officers seeking to restrain Predi and retrieving a weapon that appears to match the firearm the Department of Homeland Security says Predi possessed.
	Officers can be heard shouting, he's got a gun, when the unidentified agent reaches into Predi's waistband as the pile of officers try to subdue him.
	Just over one second after the officer emerges holding the weapon, a shot rings out, followed by at least nine more, according to videos.
	The videos show that the officer who retrieved the weapon had nothing in his hand prior to approaching Predi.
	It is unclear from the videos reviewed by CNN whether the officer who took the weapon away from Predi immediately told the others that he was taking it away.
	Michelle is in California on our line for Republicans.
	Good morning, Michelle.
	Yes, good morning.
	I'd like to say one thing.
Pointless Violence 00:02:59
	I don't feel that these protests are peaceful.
	We're watching George Floyd in Baltimore all over again.
	We see what the protesters are damaging.
	I would like to make this one point to your listeners.
	As a shareholder, I vote my proxies.
	And after Floyd, the insurance costs in this country for property damage went through the roof.
	And you had all these Democrats protecting what was going on.
	My next point I'd like to make is, didn't we see this with the Minutemen at the border when we were supporting the Minutemen and Bush called it vigilanteism and put a stop to it?
	If they're allowing people to give money to protests like this, isn't that considered vigilanteism?
	That's the only point I'd like to make.
	But like I said okay.
	Bradley is in Georgia on our line for Democrats.
	Good morning, Bradley.
	Hello?
	Yes, go ahead.
	Yeah.
	It's just a terrible day.
	Well, first off, they labeled this a domestic terrorist right off the bat.
	And I mean, if he's a domestic terrorist, like I'm a piece of crap.
	I'm a bum compared to that.
	That guy was like a wonderful human being.
	Like he dedicated his life to helping people.
	And for him to get gunned down like that and then immediately called a domestic terrorist is just like I don't think maybe I mean Trump and I think this is their plan.
	This is what they're trying to accomplish is the escalation of just chaos.
	But I don't think they're going to understand like what they're unleashing in our country.
	Like I live in a neighborhood and my daughter has like a boyfriend and his friends and their family like their parents work.
	But basically more than half of their parents have been deported.
	So there you have multitudes of kids, like 16 to 20 year olds with no parents.
	They're just here by themselves because they were born here.
	And the amount of anger that is growing is just, I don't, I don't think America understands what's coming down the road for it.
	And I'm just, I'm very, very, very concerned.
	And once again, like, I mean, if not these are domestic terrorists, they're like, I guess I'm ISIS then because, I mean, I don't understand what he did wrong.
	I mean, I don't understand at all what he did wrong.
	And a couple of the courts were just like, you know, how do these 13 million people come across the board?
	It's the people who are hiring them.
	That is the people who should go into prison.
	These people are being taken advantage of by their labor and just being like terrorized.
	And I mean, it's past the point where people are fed up.
	I mean, liberals, I'm a Democrat.
	I mean, use your Second Amendment to take advantage of it.
	And Chuck Schumer and the Democrats, you better shut down this government.
	I don't want another freaking penny going to fund any of this crap.
	So thank you so much.
	Mick is in DeMont, Indiana, on our line for Republicans.
	Good morning, Mick.
Concerns Over Misuse Of Force 00:02:35
	Good morning.
	I was watching the video and watching your program, and I also saw a couple other videos.
	And from what I see, this man came over.
	They were pushing the lady down to the ground.
	And he came over to help her get up.
	And then they shoved him down, started dragging him.
	I never saw, he had a camera in his hand.
	He was videotaping this.
	And when he started trying to get up, they held him down.
	They dragged him off.
	They had him face down to the ground.
	There was one person on each arm.
	They were holding him down.
	They started to let him up.
	He was about halfway up to his knees, and the guy went behind him and shot him in the back.
	When they look at this, they better check to see where he was shot.
	He was laying face down when he was shot.
	He was murdered.
	This was just out and out murder.
	And it's sickening.
	And I am a registered Republican, but I don't think I never vote for another one.
	What do you think of the fact that the Trump administration has been saying that this was a justified shooting and that it was the responsibility of the victim that this happened?
	This happened.
	He was at a protest.
	He did nothing unlawful.
	I mean, they say he was waving a gun around.
	He had a legal right to carry the weapon.
	And if everybody wants to turn their weapons in, well, maybe that's what they should do.
	And that'd be the end of it.
	And then disarm ICE also, because they don't need to be carrying weapons either.
	And people bring up ICE in the, you know, before all this started, they didn't go around packing machine guns and, you know, taking over neighborhoods.
	You know, they went looking for people.
	And during Obama, I think they deported like six million people.
	And they didn't have any of this trouble.
	But it is really sickening.
	And I'm with the family.
	I think they should sue the government until hell freezes over.
Authorities Dispute Threat Claims 00:03:14
	Well, let's listen to a press conference, a clip from a press conference yesterday where Homeland Security Secretary Christine Noam laid the blame for the shooting on state and local leadership.
	These are comments from yesterday.
	You just made claims that the individual posed a threat to law enforcement.
	That is no claim.
	It is the facts.
	The facts of this situation.
	This individual showed up to an law enforcement operation with a weapon and dozens of rounds of ammunition.
	He wasn't there to peacefully protest.
	He was there to perpetuate violence.
	And he was asked to show up and to continue to resist by a governor who's irresponsible and has a long history of corruption and lying.
	And we won't stand for it anymore.
	These law enforcement officers take an oath.
	They get up every single day and they go out to protect the public.
	Many of these individuals live in their communities.
	And this mayor and this governor have doxxed them.
	They have allowed people to threaten them and their families and expose their identities in order to instill fear and violence.
	And that's not what America is about.
	We're going to continue to tell the truth about Minnesota, Minneapolis, what happened here, the theft over the last many years that these leaders have facilitated.
	And we're going to continue to do our work to get to the bottom of the investigations.
	And the one question you should be asking is the mayor, the governor, and the attorney general have all confirmed that they have been subpoenaed to come in front of a criminal federal grand jury.
	So they are covering up and are being a part of a system where they are going to be brought to justice for anything that they had to do with this investigation.
	They have confirmed they've been subpoenaed, and they will be in front of a grand jury to get that criminal investigation unfolding and to disclose the kind of fraud that they have allowed to happen.
	Some additional information about the victim of this fatal shooting in Minnesota here from the Washington Post that the ICU nurse fatally shot by federal agent in Minneapolis cared for veterans.
	Alex Predi, 37, was kind and didn't often discuss politics, friends and colleagues said.
	His family disputed the Trump administration's version of the shooting.
	Alex Predi, the man fatally shot by federal agents Saturday, was a local intensive care nurse dedicated to caring for veterans, according to his family, friends, and coworkers.
	Alex was a kind-hearted soul who cared deeply for his family and friends, and also the American veterans whom he cared for as an ICU nurse at the Minneapolis VA Hospital.
	Predty's family said in a statement shared with the Washington Post, Alex wanted to make a difference in the world.
	Predi 37 is the third person shot by federal immigration officials in recent weeks.
	He was shot outside a popular donut shop about a mile and a half from his home by U.S. Border Patrol, according to law enforcement officials.
	The shooting followed a scuffle between Predi and Border Patrol agents, and Predi was in possession of a 9mm handgun, according to the Department of Homeland Security.
	Authorities believe Predi was a lawful gun owner with a permit to carry Minneapolis Chief Brian O'Hara said during a news conference.
	Trump officials, including Secretary of Homeland Security, Christy Noam, called Predty a domestic terrorist.
Veronica's Call for Change 00:15:00
	Next up is Bobby in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, on our line for Democrats.
	Good morning, Bobby.
	Good morning.
	I would like someone to answer a question for me.
	ICE, I'm not familiar with ICE and what they do, but our local police officers do not wear masks.
	There has been shooting and various incidents with our local police.
	If they're right, I don't see why they should wear a mask.
	The next question I would like someone to answer for me, please, is the makeup of ICE.
	I have seen it.
	I don't know the makeup.
	Are there any black or brown officers in ICE?
	And I just don't understand.
	I never thought I would see this type of thing going on.
	And what I think we need to do is really search our hearts and try to go back to a more peaceful protest as it were when Dr. King was leading the civil rights movement.
	And they were trained.
	And I know why you have the right to carry a weapon, but if we would come down and Republicans and Democrats, all Democrats are not scum.
	All Republicans are not prejudiced.
	We do have prejudiced black people, we have prejudiced white people, some and police officers, some may be whatever.
	But we need to tone down the rhetoric, search our hearts, and turn back to God to help us.
	Now, we have a leader, a president.
	As I said, his cabinet, someone tell me, out of all the cabinet posts, how many are black and brown?
	And we need to search our hearts and turn back to God.
	That is the only thing that's going to help because we have a president that can call anybody anything he wants.
	But if you go against him, you are scum.
	He calls you scum.
	And I call him President Jim Joan Trump.
	And some of the Republicans, not all, are drinking the Kool-Aid.
	And y'all have a nice day.
	Bob is in Tampa, Florida on our line for independence.
	Good morning, Bob.
	Good morning.
	How are you doing?
	I love your show.
	I'm calling in regards.
	I'm trying to be people getting on here, especially Christy Noam, calling this assembly of unlawful federal people, police officers, as ICE.
	They're just the same people who stormed the Capitol.
	They have hate in their heart.
	This administration has the same hate, and it gives them the okay to shoot anybody because whatever happens under this administration, anybody in his cabinet, they will get pardon.
	Only person that can save this country, hopefully the next president is hopefully Gavin Newsom gets in there and give this whole administration what is due to them.
	Lock them all up like he used to chant for Hillary Clinton, lock them up.
	I mean, we had a chance to do that, but this Republican Party won't do anything because they're scared of it.
	But hopefully somebody will come in in the next administration and hold all of this, Chrissy Noam, Pete Hexett, all of them accountable for the things they have done to this world and to America.
	Have a great day.
	Bye-bye.
	In the additional reporting from the Washington Post, it highlights that the shooting has heightened questions about the training and tactics being used as the Trump administration deploys growing numbers of federal agents onto city streets where they are increasingly met by protesters.
	Democrats in Congress promised to hold up funding for the Department of Homeland Security over the killing, possibly triggering a government shutdown.
	And Saturday's shooting sparked yet another round of protests that grew violent.
	Minneapolis officials requested the National Guard be deployed to help beleaguered police.
	Governor Tim Walz first forcefully reiterated calls for the Trump administration to pull back on its surge of immigration enforcement, launched this month, and called the killing sickening.
	He accused the roughly 3,000 immigration officers patrolling the streets of sowing chaos as well as other charges.
	Here is Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry speaking about yesterday's shooting.
	So to everyone, listen, stand with Minneapolis.
	Stand up for America.
	Recognize that your children will ask you what side you were on.
	Your grandchildren will ask you what you did to act to prevent this from happening again.
	To make sure that the foundational elements of our democracy were rock solid.
	What did you do to protect your city?
	What did you do to protect your nation?
	This is not what America is about.
	This is not a partisan issue.
	This is an American issue.
	This administration and everyone involved in this operation should be reflecting.
	They should be reflecting right now and asking themselves: what exactly are you accomplishing?
	If the goal was to achieve peace and safety, this is doing exactly the opposite.
	If the goal was to achieve calm and prosperity, this is doing exactly the opposite.
	Are you standing up for American families right now or are we tearing them apart?
	The invasion of these heavily armed mask agents roaming around on our streets in Minneapolis, emboldened with a sense of impunity.
	It has to end.
	This is not how it has to be.
	Back to your calls.
	Lisa is in Alexandria, Virginia, on our line for Republicans.
	Good morning, Lisa.
	Good morning.
	I would just like to say that what's happening in Minnesota is terrible in the fact that now we have state and local government fighting against federal government and using the people to get killed in the process.
	My question is: where are all these people in the process of the black Americans and other American citizens that are being locked up every day?
	Why aren't they standing?
	Why aren't judges leading them out the back door instead of prosecuting Americans on the daily?
	And I can tell you, they're continuing to do it.
	Nobody was there to help my children out of jail when they were accused of crime.
	Everything, Daniel Reno went down there to Florida with blazing guns to get Elian Gonzalez.
	Nothing was said about it.
	Nothing was done about it.
	You need to show America the clip.
	They're going to say, ICE shouldn't be armed.
	Well, ICE has always been armed from what I can tell.
	I'm in my 60s and I've seen it happen repeatedly.
	So I just need to know when are they going to start letting our American citizens get by with crimes that they've committed instead of just the illegal immigrants and the citizens that are out there standing up for them.
	Why aren't they standing up for all the jails that have our citizens locked up in there?
	You don't even hear the legal aid people talking about the pipeline to prison for black American students anymore because they're too busy focusing on only illegal immigrants.
	Something is seriously wrong with this country.
	Thank you.
	Randy is in Millington, Michigan on our line for Democrats.
	Good morning, Randy.
	Good morning, Kimley.
	I'd like to start by thanking you and all the other men and women it takes to bring us this great program.
	You're doing a great service for the nation.
	Just make sure that your volume is turned down on your TV and then go ahead, please.
	I apologize.
	I was standing near the T V. I'm a life member of the NRA.
	I just watched a legally legal American get shot with eight guys.
	You couldn't hold him down.
	It is time now to have, okay, the lady that got shot, we had the vice president say the Border Patrol makes mistakes.
	Okay, a mistake may be buying the wrong item at the grocery store that you're supposed to get.
	This has gone beyond mistakes.
	It's time now for independent, full investigations.
	And if anything else, it'll prove whether it was justified or whether it was what looks like an unjustified killing.
	We can't, this has gotten out of hand.
	You have to have accountability.
	This is the United States of America.
	We are a land of laws.
	And right now we see the ones that are enforcing the law acting, it seems, quite unlawfully.
	I hope we have investigations so they can prove to me that it wasn't an unlawful killing, or they can prove it was a lawful killing.
	But this, what's going on now with the ICE agents not letting local police investigate, which they are supposed to do when it comes to these actions, not the government agents.
	This is we're losing control of our justice system and the rights of Americans.
	Thank you very much.
	Thomas is in Newark, Ohio on our line for Republicans.
	Good morning, Thomas.
	Oh, thank you for taking my call, Darling.
	You look fabulous.
	Let me start right away so you know where I'm coming from.
	Minnesota has just committed insurrection.
	Let me explain.
	As always, the Democrats are on the wrong side of constitutional laws.
	Just declaring sanctuary cities is an act of treason against our federal laws as they are written.
	When you alter or ignore federal laws for political power, you are committing a crime.
	It is Waltz and Fry who initiated these tactic, tragic events because of their party's lust for perpetual power and control of our republic.
	This country is a mess, and it's the Democrats that are doing it, not the Republicans.
	We're trying to clean this mess up.
	Get out of this party if you want to save America.
	Get the hell out of this party of Democrats.
	Get away from them.
	Thank you, Darling.
	Next up is Al in Zumbro Falls, Minnesota on our line for independence.
	Good morning, Al.
	Oh, hi.
	Good morning.
	You got any questions for me?
	Well, first, just make sure that your volume is turned down on your TV.
	And if you'd like to sort of give us a sense of what it's feeling like there in Minnesota after the second shooting.
	Yeah, just a small comment about the Trump administration right now is they've been battling back and forth in court with the state of Minnesota.
	More like threatening to, you know, they're cutting off food stamp benefit, childcare, everything you can think of, any kind of federal funding, they're doing to Minnesota.
	And they're doing that just with Democrat states that I know of.
	I heard of like 15 Democratic states.
	And on the ground in Minneapolis, I've seen from local news this one lady was filming an ICE action and a guy, ICE come up to her and said, haven't you learned from the shooting the other day referring to Renee Good?
	And she, haven't you learned the lesson?
	She goes, what lesson?
	What lesson are you trying to teach me?
	And then he grabbed her phone and threw it on the ground.
	So there've been a lot of stuff that hasn't even been on like CNN or Fox or whatever.
	But these people, there's some people that've been arrested for ICE for immigration purpose, but then released and then arrested again.
	And there's been fraudulent warrants just laid on people's doorstep from ICE, which they matched up and they don't match state or local descriptions of what a warrant looks like.
	So, you know, there's a lot going on that, you know, I don't know where it's going to end, but my view is that there's just too many ICE here.
	They were doing ICE recovery and then they surge.
	One more thing.
	They wanted Minnesota's voting rolls, which is Pam Bonnie spoke of that if they turned over their voting rolls, we'll decrease ICE.
	So, you know, what's that sound like to you?
	That's more like extortion.
	So that's about all I got to say.
	Veronica is in Cleveland, Ohio, on our line for Democrats.
	Good morning, Veronica.
	Go ahead, Veronica.
	Yeah, yes, I was listening to all these people's comments here, and it kind of threw me off.
	But anyway, when we have to show these events, I understand it should be seen.
	At the same time, people should really realize, is this what we want?
	Is this where we want our world to go to?
Big Picture Concerns 00:09:14
	Massacres, do as I say, not as I do.
	Come on.
	We have a felon for a president with 34 counts.
	And I am, most of these call, I heard one caller that was so drunk you can hear it through the phone.
	Okay?
	And I am so nervous that we let people like this on the phone.
	All right.
	Kathleen is in Los Angeles on our line for Republicans.
	Good morning, Kathleen.
	Good morning.
	I don't know what that woman was talking about, the caller before me, saying that she's nervous.
	What did she say?
	I can't even remember.
	So much being said, but the bottom line, for me, you know, Democrat voters and Trump haters, they never see the big picture.
	They never see the totality of the circumstances.
	They have bad judgment.
	They cannot assess or analyze a situation properly.
	What is the issue?
	The issue is that there are 15 to 20 million illegal aliens that were let into the country under the Biden administration.
	That's not even counting the illegal aliens that were already here, particularly in California, you know, prior to what Biden had led in.
	Can you imagine if Kamala Harris was president, black Americans would be reduced to, would be swallowed by illegal aliens.
	We are swallowed by illegal aliens in California because illegal aliens have been coming into California since the 1980s and 1990s.
	Okay, and Dr. Claude Anderson talked about this, and Terry Anderson talked about this.
	So, Kathleen, I hear your point about undocumented immigrants in California in particular, where you are.
	Do you think that there should be more immigration enforcement where you are, as opposed to a place like Minnesota, which doesn't have as high of an immigrant population as a place like California?
	Yeah, see, we never see the big picture.
	The immigration enforcement, or rather, ICE, is in every state.
	The only state that is having a problem is Minnesota.
	Why?
	The question is why?
	Because Frey and Waltz are not cooperating with the federal government.
	They are being like the Confederates during the Civil War.
	They're not cooperating with the Fed.
	Why wouldn't they not cooperate?
	Why would a state government and local government not cooperate with the federal government?
	They're covering up their fraud.
	They're covering up their fraud.
	And, you know, Trump haters never see the big picture, as I said before.
	No other state is having the problem with ICE that Minnesota is having, that Minneapolis is having.
	Why not?
	Kathleen?
	In every state.
	Go ahead, Kathleen.
	Oh, I thought you were going to ask me a question.
	And, you know, this is the big, and you cannot have a society.
	You cannot have a, and people talk about following the law.
	You cannot have a functioning society where you have 15 to 20 million illegal aliens in your country.
	And the media sides with the, the media sides with it, the media hates Trump because everything that you read, all the newspapers that you read, the New York Times can't stand Trump.
	Trump is for America first.
	And so, you know, the media is not America first.
	Because it's all, you know, for 10 years straight, I've been watching Washington Journal, and you never have positive Trump news.
	It's always, it's been disproportionately negative Trump news.
	And as I said, the data is clear.
	I'm a data girl.
	I go by data, not anecdotes.
	Everyone that calls in is giving an anecdote.
	An anecdote is irrelevant.
	But if you have 15 to 20 million people illegally in your country, they're not following the law.
	That is, you cannot have a successful society with 15 to 20 million people.
	First of all, they said that the illegal aliens do jobs that Americans don't want to do them.
	We find out they're doing construction work.
	We find out they're driving trucks.
	So, you know, everything has been like lies, disinformation from the Democratic Party.
	Anyone at this point, looking at the big picture, looking at the totality of the circumstances that are supporting the Democratic Party, you're supporting the establishment, you're supporting the globalists, you're supporting our country being run over by illegal aliens.
	The fact that you don't even call them illegal aliens when that is the proper term by our federal codes and regulations.
	The media is always trying to shape the narrative to be against Trump.
	And as I said, since the late 1800s, we have known that mass immigration adversely impacts black Americans, the late 1800s.
	So now we have not only mass immigration, we have illegal aliens.
	Black Americans have been swallowed.
	You know, Kathleen, because you mentioned the Civil War and black Americans, I'd like to read you something that Jasmine Crockett has been making, also drawing some parallels to that era.
	This is a story from ABC News 4, which is a local outlet, but this is a national story.
	That lawmaker criticizes Trump's ICE tactics, compares them to Nazi raids and slave patrols.
	Representative Jasmine Crockett, a Democrat of Texas, likened President Donald Trump to a domestic violence abuser, suggested that the Trump administration's immigration enforcement tactics were on par with the Nazis and accused the Supreme Court of sanctioning modern-day slave patrol.
	Crockett did not mince her words when criticizing the ongoing ICE raids in cities across the country during a field hearing hosted in St. Paul by Representatives Permilla J. Paul and Ilan Omar.
	This Friday, a event named Kidnapped and Disappeared, Trump's Deadly Assault on Minnesota comes amid escalating clashes between anti-ICE protesters and federal law enforcement officers in the wake of the fatal shooting of Renee Goode by an ICE agent over a week ago.
	This was before the most recent shooting.
	Crockett framed ICE's operations in Minneapolis to be an act of pure racism, pointing to Trump's previous rhetoric of immigrants.
	The lawmaker then suggested that images and videos of illegal immigrants being arrested and detained by ICE officers is on par with human rights abuses from the past.
	Because we look at other places, say places that did things like go door-to-door looking for people as they had to hide out in, say, an attic, does that sound familiar to anyone else?
	She said, going on, Crockett said immigration enforcement efforts under NOAA look like modern-day slave patrols and they have been sanctioned by the Supreme Court.
	What do you think of that, Kathleen?
	I mean, it's absurd.
	As I said, you can bring up the article, Cast Down Your Bucket Where You Are by the Center for Immigration Studies, and you see that Frederick Douglass, W. Du Bois, Marcus Garvey, and Booker T. Washington, and all the black newspapers and all the black publications and intellectuals in the late 1800s said, You bring up that article, said that mass immigration, that's what they were experiencing in the late, late 1800s,
	not early, late 1800s, mass immigration adversely impacts black Americans economically.
	So now we not only have mass immigration, we have illegal aliens.
	As I said, I live in California.
	This has been going on since the 9th, I live in Los Angeles.
	This has been going on since the 1980s in Los Angeles.
	All right, so we've got the idea.
	So let's go to Audrey in Philadelphia on our line for independence.
	Good morning, Audrey.
	Thank you.
	George Floyd, Renee Goode, and now Alex Predty.
	I resent having to watch these people being murdered in front of us over and over again.
	And I really resent that within hours, liar Christy Noam is out there telling us they're domestic terrorists.
	The domestic terrorists are ICE.
	They are the ones who are out there shooting people, killing people on our streets.
	Donald Trump, Christy Noam, Greg Bezino, the teeny tiny American Himmler, these people, we heard recently that they were recruiting new ICE members from video games.
Borders Open, ICE Fault 00:04:03
	And now we know that the training is only 47 days as an homage to the 47th president.
	And this is the result.
	Now those people are out there on the street, these video game players who have no respect for the Constitution, no conception of the importance of life.
	And I'm so grateful to the people of Minneapolis, the patriots out there on the street braving the cold and putting their lives on the line for their principles to support what America and values are supposed to be.
	And I've been curious to hear the conservatives call up and how they're going to justify this one, because it seems like no matter what this administration does, they're ready to come out and talk about how great it is.
	I think if Trump pushed the nuclear button, they'd be up there telling us he's the greatest president who ever lived, and this is really a good thing that he did.
	Wayne is in O'Fallon, Missouri on our line for Democrats.
	Good morning, Wayne.
	Yeah, great, great show, and I agree 100% with the last caller.
	And I'm going to tell you something.
	In 2020, after Joe Biden was elected president, the Republicans, and especially the mega-Republicans, started saying the U.S.-southern borders are open.
	The U.S.-southern borders are open.
	They kept repeating it and repeating it, and they kept showing pictures of people coming across the border, coming across.
	Trump could have done something to fix that problem.
	He left it go.
	Biden was trying to do something.
	Trump said, I ain't going to do it till I get back in office.
	So now we have this situation in the United States created by Trump and mega-Republicans.
	We have people in this country that shouldn't be agree with that.
	But the way to fix it is to use our courts, not to send these kids out into U.S. cities doing what they're doing and killing people.
	It is crazy.
	Mary is in Lakeland, Florida on our line for Republicans.
	Good morning, Mary.
	Yes, I agree totally with the woman from California.
	Why should these illegal immigrants be allowed to come into this country and kill innocent children, women, rape them, rob the stores, have everything and anything that they want?
	Everything is always, always the fault of President Trump.
	President Trump inherited this from Biden.
	You remember my independent friends and Democratic friends, Maorkis and Harris, the Border Czar?
	They did absolutely nothing.
	There were thousands and thousands every day coming into this country.
	What is happening in Minneapolis is the fault of that governor and that mayor.
	These people are being killed because they are not taking the responsibility that they should be.
	ICE is in there to get rid of these murderers and rapists and send them back where they came from.
	My parents are immigrants, were immigrants.
	Nothing, nothing like this has ever happened.
	To blame President Trump and ICE for what's happening is totally insane.
	All right.
Cassius Marcellus Clay: Anti-Slavery Paradox 00:03:08
	Well, that is all the time that we have for this segment.
	Later on this morning on Washington Journal, journalist and author Kenneth Rosen joins us to talk about his new book, Polar War, about how the Arctic is the new front in a new Cold War.
	But first, after the break, we're going to continue our discussion about the Trump administration's immigration crackdown and the political fallout with former Democratic Congressman Jim Davis and Republican strategist Adam Goodman.
	We'll be right back.
	Weekends bring you Book TV featuring leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books.
	Here's a look at what's coming up this weekend.
	Finance and tech reporter David Morris in his book, Stealing the Future, covers FTX and Sam Backman-Freed's crimes.
	Political science professor Theoria Francos with her book Extraction, The Frontiers of Green Capitalism, an in-depth analysis into green technologies and the environmental industry.
	After that, it's America's Book Club.
	Pulitzer Prize winner and former U.S. poet laureate Rita Dove joins David Rubenstein on America's Book Club to discuss her work.
	Aunt Philip and William Taubman talk about the life and career of Defense Secretary Robert McNamara and his leadership during the Vietnam War in their book McNamara at War.
	Watch Book TV every Sunday on C-SPAN 2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org.
	On this episode of Book Notes Plus with our host, Brian Lamb.
	Ann Marshall is Associate Professor of History and Executive Director of the Ulysses S. Grant Presidential Library at Mississippi State University.
	Her book is Cassius Marcellus Clay, The Life of an Anti-Slavery Slaveholder and the Paradox of American Reform.
	Clay lived to be 92, had two wives and 11 children.
	Kentucky was his home state.
	As an anti-slavery reformer, Cassius Marcellus Clay is often remembered as a knife-wielding rebel-rouser who both inspired and enraged his contemporaries.
	Abraham Lincoln made him minister to Russia, and yes, the boxer Muhammad Ali was originally named after him, but decided he wanted his own original name.
	Ann Marshall will discuss all this with us.
	A new interview with author Ann Marshall about her book, Cassius Marcellus Clay, The Life of an Anti-Slavery Slaveholder and the Paradox of American Reform.
	Book Notes Plus with our host Brian Lamb is available wherever you get your podcasts and on the C-SPAN Now app.
	Washington Journal continues.
	Welcome back.
	Joining us to discuss the political news of the past week, including the fallout from this latest shooting in Minnesota.
	I'm joined by Jim Davis, who's a former U.S. Representative, Democrat from Florida, as well as Adam Goodman, Republican strategist.
Senator's Call for Transparency 00:15:13
	Thank you both so much for joining us this morning.
	Thanks.
	I'd like to ask you both for your reaction to what's been happening in Minnesota, including this latest shooting, just in terms of what you're seeing from the fallout as well as the reaction from the administration.
	Adam, would you like to go ahead first?
	It's obviously it's a tragedy whenever anyone loses their life.
	We're trying to figure out what to do about carrying out a law that's been on the books for a while that has caused, you know, obviously a lot of controversy having to do with illegal immigration.
	I don't think there should be a controversy about the essence of illegal immigration, that people should be here legally, and if not, they really shouldn't be here, or we need to change the law.
	And of course, this is a congressional thing that Jim can actually address, having been a veteran member of Congress.
	Your alternative is to change the law to direct what, in this case, ICE and others are doing.
	This country, Kimberly, had a real problem and has had a real problem with illegal immigration for years.
	It spanned different administrations, and this administration, Trump 2.0, has decided to really go after it.
	And I think you could argue very persuasively, they're doing their job.
	Under the previous administration, we had record numbers of illegal immigrants coming over, especially the southern border.
	And as we're about to discover, when it all comes out about what Venezuela has been about, the threats to this country from south of the border are not only real, they're here.
	And I think this president is trying to do something about it.
	But I want to make it very clear to you and to all the viewers that any loss of life is really tragic.
	And I'm sorry, I'm sure, like most Americans are, to have heard the news coming out of Minnesota.
	Jim, your response to what you've been seeing happening in Minnesota.
	What happened to Alex Pretty and Renee Good is a tragedy.
	And what's really horrific, they both seem to be avoidable.
	And we owe it to them and their families to learn from what went wrong here.
	I think there's an agreement that we need to deal with immigrants that are here illegally that pose a threat to public safety.
	There's a difference of opinion about what to do with folks that have been here for years and following the rules and been a part of their communities and paying their bills and taxes.
	But I think the problem we need to painfully address here is that these ICE agents are not trained to do what they're doing.
	They're trained to deal with combat maneuvers at the border.
	They're not trained like our police are to use force proportionately and very prudently.
	There was a rush to recruit these folks.
	A lot of mistakes were made.
	And the administration continues to be in a very defensive posture about not acknowledging their mistakes.
	There's always mistakes made by everybody.
	You can always learn and do better.
	And this is the time to do that.
	And what we have to deal with now is there's a fundamental distrust.
	There's a breach of trust between federal, state, and local law enforcement, between the community, between people that want to see the law enforcement, as Adam said.
	So the White House has a responsibility not to escalate, to step back, and change this situation, or it's just going to get worse.
	I want to talk about the potential political fallout for this.
	Chuck Schumer posted on X just yesterday.
	What's happening in Minnesota is appalling and unacceptable in any American city.
	Democrats sought common sense reforms in the Department of Homeland Security spending bill, but because of Republicans' refusal to stand up to President Trump, the DHS bill is woefully inadequate to rein in the abuses of ICE.
	I will vote no.
	Senate Democrats will not provide the votes to proceed to the appropriations bill if the DHS funding bill is included.
	This is in reference to the funding bills passed by the House just this past week that would avoid a potential government shutdown in a little under a week.
	Minnesota Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar responded to a question on what Democrats could do to change the situation on the ground in Minneapolis.
	Here's some comments that she made yesterday.
	Right now we are focused on getting ICE out of this state.
	And of course we will use every lever that we have.
	But I do remind people that Donald Trump runs the White House.
	And sadly, because to date we have not seen the Republican members of Congress standing up, he also seems to run the Congress.
	But the point here is that there are many changes that we could make.
	You know, why aren't we helping fund local law enforcement instead of what they did with this bill last summer where they tripled the budget?
	And why aren't they pledging to have a full investigation of what happened?
	I have a lot of respect for our local law enforcement here, and I appreciated the words of some of my colleagues who talked about the fact that people have to differentiate here with what they're doing on the front line every single day.
	So there are many things we could do.
	Budgets are a value choice.
	And that's what we're asking our Republican colleagues to do.
	I work across the aisle all the time.
	I work with them.
	And I know that many of them understand that what's going on right now is wrong.
	And so the way to get to a higher ground, honestly, is to get them to get ICE out of our state right now, to call the president, to speak out as we have been doing day after day after day, and to remember these little kids who are afraid to go to school, and to remember the people who are legal citizens who are wrestled to the ground yelling, I am born here.
	I was born here.
	And to remember these two that we've lost.
	And I hope that's something that they all take home and that the people of this country do as they look at how they can get this administration to stop this.
	Jim Davis, we're just recently off of the longest government shutdown in U.S. history.
	And now there are Democrats talking about potentially causing another shutdown by standing up for, you know, blocking this funding for the Department of Homeland Security in order to protest the actions of ICE.
	What do you think of that strategy?
	I think the Democrats have an obligation to be very specific about what they want to see done to change this and to be constructive.
	And I think that can be done.
	And I think there's an opportunity here in Congress.
	This morning, Republican Senator Cassidy from Louisiana publicly said what a lot of members of Congress have been saying privately on the Republican side, that there needs to be more transparency.
	There needs to be an investigation.
	It appears mistakes are being made.
	There's abuse occurring, I think, in instances.
	And it needs to be examined in a very factual way.
	And somebody with a lot of credibility in this administration and law enforcement needs to step in and say, we're not afraid to talk about what happened.
	One of the other issues that's being debated in Congress right now are these body cams.
	There's resistance to the administration about continuing to use body cams.
	That's a huge mistake.
	The public needs to see exactly what's happening.
	People will form their own conclusions, but there needs to be more transparency.
	And the Congress has an opportunity, Democrats and Republicans, to work together on this.
	That message that you mentioned from U.S. Senator Bill Cassidy says here on X: the events in Minneapolis are incredibly disturbing.
	The credibility of ICE and DHS are at stake.
	There must be a full joint federal and state investigation.
	We can trust the American people with the truth.
	Speaking of the American people, Adam Goodman, polling from YouGov, finds that about 42% of Americans strongly or somewhat support the idea of eliminating ICE as a federal agency.
	45% strongly or somewhat oppose the idea of eliminating ICE as a federal agency.
	That's a pretty close split.
	What do you think should happen next in terms of ICE in terms of funding as well as congressional support?
	Well, let me respond on a couple different fronts.
	First, what Jim had said, I agree with them that this is a time for Democrats and others to be constructive and put solutions or counter different ideas on the table.
	As far as ICE getting rid of ICE, I understand that some of the things that have happened in the last couple of months has been unsettling for a lot of Americans, but the idea of getting rid of customs enforcement altogether is insane.
	I mean, Mos will just open our borders all over again.
	So I don't agree with that.
	And Senator Klobuchar, I have a lot of respect for, she kind of conflated ICE and law enforcement.
	I say conflated because a lot of things that have happened over the last couple of years where men and women who wear the badge and put their lives on the line every day, the men and women in blue, have not gotten the kind of support they feel they need from a lot of communities and frankly from a lot of Democratic constituencies, some of whom have been into the words to fund the police and do other things that are going to make things less safe in communities around America.
	So I disagree with the idea that ICE has to suddenly not only be under the microscope, but maybe we should eliminate that.
	I also hope, Kimberly, this doesn't lead to a shutdown.
	If the Democrats want to make a principled stand, that is their right.
	That's kind of the strength of democracy, the pushback on things that maybe you don't agree on.
	But the last thing I think this country needs is another shutdown.
	I hope there's going to be something more constructive that would be pursued than that.
	I want to switch to a different topic that was also a major headline in the news this week, which is the update on the U.S. stance related to Greenland.
	Earlier this past week, you know, President Trump announced that he would no longer move forward with tariffs on a group of European allies after he reached what he calls a deal or a framework of a deal on Arctic security.
	We don't have details of that, but in an address before the World Economic Forum at Davos last week, President Trump did say that he wasn't going to use military force against Greenland.
	We never asked for anything and we never got anything.
	We probably won't get anything unless I decide to use excessive strength and force where we would be, frankly, unstoppable.
	But I won't do that.
	Okay, now everyone's saying, oh, good.
	That's probably the biggest statement I made because people thought I would use force.
	I don't have to use force.
	I don't want to use force.
	I won't use force.
	All the United States is asking for is a place called Greenland where we already had it as a trustee, but respectfully returned it back to Denmark not long ago after we defeated the Germans, the Japanese, the Italians, and others in World War II.
	We gave it back to them.
	We were a powerful force then, but we are a much more powerful force now.
	Adam Goodman, what do you think of the president's change of stance on this, especially backing down on the tariffs, which is something that he has done before?
	Would you say that this is a win or a loss for the president?
	I think it's a win for the world.
	I think ultimately Greenland was going to be resolved in the way it's now resolving itself, where everyone comes out of it with something America primarily is looking at two things.
	One is defense.
	And of course, they have the space base in Badufik that they want to make sure is going to be alive and vital in stemming any kind of incursions from enemies from the other side of the world.
	Greenland, of course, wants its sovereignty, Denmark and Greenland, want their sovereignty protected.
	But more importantly, I think what the president's done, and maybe a lot of people will disagree with this, his actions, especially over the last year, have actually made NATO a stronger force than ever before.
	And it needed to be.
	It needed to be more self-sufficient.
	It needed to fund itself more.
	It needed to stand up more.
	And I think that's what they're doing here as well.
	They would be very involved in what's called, they're calling the Arctic Shield, because Greenland does occupy geographically a very important defensive position for the West, not just for America.
	So I think everyone's going to end up getting what they want out of this.
	The president has a way of getting everyone's attention and the way he expresses himself at times.
	But I think the bottom-line resolution to this is going to be good overall for all parties involved in the West.
	Emerson College did some polling on views, Americans' views of adding Greenland as a territory.
	50% of Americans oppose this idea compared to just 28% supporting it and 22% unsure.
	You know, Jim Davis, we are starting to get into midterm territory.
	We're getting ready to head into primaries.
	What do you think of this issue in terms of its political relevance for most Americans?
	Well, if I can, can I start with the facts?
	The facts are that because of climate change, there are national security concerns about the Arctic that need to be addressed.
	Also, we have an agreement in place with Greenland that allows us to have military bases there and share intelligence, share information.
	So there isn't a problem with us being more actively involved.
	The problem is that the president had threatened to invade an ally, which is unprecedented and is a serious threat to NATO.
	I think the public is watching this very closely.
	They usually don't in foreign policy.
	It's like Minnesota.
	People are paying attention.
	That's really important.
	And this really doesn't hold water in terms of what has happened here.
	The president's words have had a lasting impact on our relationships, our allies.
	It's important to remember we do need our allies.
	On 9-11, when I was serving in Congress, our allies abroad came together to the defense of the United States and provided us very important intelligence that we continue to rely upon to protect the country.
	When COVID happened, we worked very closely with our allies in other countries.
	We need to maintain these relationships, and I think we've suffered a serious breach in those relationships by virtue of what happened.
Michael's Warning On Inflation 00:12:39
	I think the public is unhappy with that.
	And also, the president campaigned to reduce inflation and improve the cost of living for daily Americans.
	What's happening in Greenland has nothing to do with that.
	It's actually a distraction.
	All right.
	We're going to be taking calls for Jim Davis and Adam Goodman.
	Democrats can call in at 202-748-8000.
	Republicans at 202-748-8001.
	And Independents at 202-748-8002.
	We're going to start with Nicole in Brooksville, Florida on our line for Democrats.
	Good morning, Nicole.
	Hi, good morning.
	All right.
	Can you hear me good?
	Yes, we can hear you clearly.
	What are your questions for Jim Davis and Adam Goodman?
	Okay, so this is my question.
	So I don't know.
	It seems like the oldest trick in the book as far as all these issues.
	When I'm trying to do something, I'm literally going to put the attention on something else.
	So I think there's more stirring in the pot than people realize.
	That's number one.
	Number two, why is it all the issues, or do you guys feel all the issues are the majority of them are in the Democratic states?
	And then number three, the most important one.
	Nicole, can I just ask you, which issues specifically are you referring to?
	Like, for instance, the violence, the process, just general issues, because, see, I'm in Florida and we have immigration here.
	We do.
	And I've seen them pick up people and take them and unfortunately deport them for whatever reasons because I'm not judging anybody.
	I don't know.
	But here's the thing.
	I've never seen immigration in ICE be so loud.
	Why y'all so loud now?
	When you've been sneaking around getting everybody, why you want to be so loud now?
	Why?
	Because you're taking our attention off of something else.
	Do you understand?
	That's what I would do.
	If I was trying to do something else, I put your attention on, you know, doggone well, you're not going to get rid of immigration.
	That's dumb.
	So, Nicole, let's have Adam Goodman respond to your comments.
	And I want to bring up some additional polling from Quinnett Piak, which finds that 57% of Americans disapprove of how ICE is enforcing immigration laws, and 40% approve.
	Adam, what do you think of Nicole's point that the way that ICE is deploying in particularly Democratic areas is a distraction from other issues?
	Well, I appreciate Nicole's call.
	I appreciate her being at Brooksville on this very, very cold day for much of the rest of the country.
	I understand how that point of view that this is somehow being used as a distraction from other things will come to the fore, but it really isn't.
	Everything kind of plays in together here.
	When you think about Nicole, Venezuela, for instance, I'm not trying to distract onto another subject.
	You say, well, what does that have to do with the price of eggs?
	What does that have to do with inflation, GDP, et cetera?
	The affordability concerns that Americans seem to have today more than ever.
	It has a lot to do with our security and our future.
	I think when the news comes out, ultimately, in the trial to come with Nicholas Maduro and his wife, it's going to be appalling just how much not just Venezuela, but other foreign forces were doing everything they could to destabilize America.
	So I don't think that's a distraction.
	I think that's kind of front and center about our national security.
	In terms of dollars and cents, affordability, you have a president who is now essentially a year into his second term.
	Inflation's down.
	GDP is up to 4.6% in the last quarter.
	The hiring has been relatively steady.
	A lot of money's come back from the tariffs in terms of income to America.
	Is it enough to quell people's concerns about pocketbook economics?
	Absolutely not.
	I think that's an ongoing thing.
	We've got a lot of insecurity on that front under the last administration.
	I think there will be things we still need to address, health care.
	I'm sure Jim is going to talk about that.
	You know, is the cost of health care is a major driver of concern for Americans and will need to be addressed by whoever is in power.
	But when you're president of the United States, you can't just isolate your efforts, your focus on one idea.
	If you do that, it becomes perilous to all the other things that are necessary to secure not just this country, but to secure your future.
	Jim, your thoughts?
	Well, I think the administration is using Minneapolis to make an example.
	And I think that's why folks in Minneapolis are just terrified and very upset.
	We have a friend whose niece is afraid to drive to work in the morning because she's Indian, she has dark skin, and she's a dentist who needs to go serve her patients.
	But I think what ICE is doing in Minneapolis is happening around the country, as Nicole pointed out.
	And we've got an underlying issue we're not really dealing with.
	And Nicole alluded to this.
	What are we going to do with all these folks who came here?
	They're not here illegally.
	They're not here legally anymore.
	They overstayed, but they've been paying taxes.
	They've been working.
	Their kids are graduating from high school.
	They're trying to live the American dream.
	How are we going to deal with that?
	President Bush tried to deal with it.
	Democrats and Republicans have tried to deal with that.
	We still haven't dealt with that underlying issue.
	But I think the problem is what Adam alluded to.
	The middle class in Florida and the United States is being squeezed like never before.
	People are very unhappy, and they expect the government to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem.
	The tariffs have made the situation worse.
	The president has just threatened a new round of tariffs that would be horrific in terms of the impact on consumers.
	And in Florida and many parts of the country, we're also dealing with the fact that the Congress cannot find a way to continue to make health care affordable.
	They haven't passed any bills.
	The only thing they've done is let a law expire that's resulting in huge premium increases for Faridians and for Americans.
	These are the issues we need to be addressing.
	Michael is in Plainfield, Illinois, on our line for independence.
	Good morning, Michael.
	Good morning, and please let me develop my question if you don't mind.
	I'm a real independent.
	I voted for Trump.
	I did not vote for Biden or Kamala Harris.
	I went third party, and in the last election, I didn't vote.
	But here's the thing: in my mind, both parties are at fault.
	This is nothing but political theater.
	Three questions: why are we not going after the employers that hire these illegal people?
	That's number one.
	Number two, regarding inflation, why are we not going against the companies?
	And they've got these people recorded at shareholders' meetings where they're talking about price gouging that they're doing against us, and the government does nothing.
	So, this is really the issue.
	This is just a smoke and mirrors, as that other lady pointed out, to distract us because go after the employers, you'll get rid of these people.
	And you know what?
	Anybody that came here illegally, kick them out.
	I'm tired of hearing their excuses.
	End of story.
	Now, respond to that, please.
	I'll let you go first, Adam.
	I'm trying to think which part of the question.
	I really appreciate the question, Michael, and the questions.
	In terms of let's start with immigration.
	So, there's been a fault on both sides of the aisle that we have not come to terms in the modern age with immigration law.
	I mean, the last major laws passed having a bearing on citizenship in this country, you could argue, go back to just after the Civil War, when they passed the amendment that made sure that future Congresses did not deprive newly emancipated slaves from their rights.
	And we have just put our heads in the sand and decided not to deal with it because it's unpleasant, because it's not easy.
	But Adam, there was bipartisan immigration legislation towards the end of the last administration that President Trump very famously, when he was not president at the time, encouraged Republicans to not pass.
	Yeah, Kimberly, I hear you too.
	But this country, the body politic, has just failed to deal with this issue effectively or to change this issue and its trajectory right now.
	Should people be here illegally?
	No.
	What do we do with the millions and millions who are here, as Jim Davis remarked earlier, who have paid their taxes, followed the laws, been very important and contributing members of their communities?
	That's something we should address.
	You know, the DREAM Act, the DREAMers, that's something we didn't resolve.
	We need to resolve sometime soon, or we're going to continue to have these conversations.
	And Americans are going to continue to get their backs up against the wall on all sides of this issue because of something we have singularly failed out of a lack of, I think, courage and forthrightness to address.
	Jim, what about this point that Michael made about going after employers in particular?
	No, he's right.
	There's actually a pretty clear solution here.
	It's called E-Verify.
	And in many states, the governors have been reluctant to support the law or to enforce it because of the impact it would have on the economy in their states.
	There are many folks working in construction, hospitality, particularly agriculture.
	And if you start vigorously enforcing that law, you really don't have a plan for how you replace them and keep those businesses going.
	So this is back to we need to find a solution here that stops the excessive overflow of illegal immigration, but also deals with folks that are here that are not a threat to public safety.
	And it's a tough issue.
	Neither party has the solution.
	Again, when I was in Congress, President Bush tried to bring people together to solve this.
	President Reagan tried when he served many, many years ago.
	We can do it.
	It's a tough issue.
	If I can't come back, can I respond to a second question about the inflation in the U.S.?
	But just very quickly, before you do that, you know, you mentioned e-Verify, but e-Verify has a lot of critics.
	This is a story from CNN, but it's been reported elsewhere that it was supposed to make it easy for companies to follow immigration law, but now even the feds say that it can't be trusted, going on to say that, you know, e-Verify as a program is just not.
	The federal government says the agency, a statement from the federal government agency responsible for e-Verify says it's reckless to rely on its own system.
	And it brought attention to the program's weaknesses, even as the Trump administration makes removing undocumented workers from the country one of the top priorities in its aggressive ongoing immigration crackdown.
	Is e-Verify really the solution?
	I don't buy that.
	That sounds like an excuse to me.
	We can make these systems work.
	But if you look at the president's own words, he has been creating exemptions in agriculture, for example, for reasons I said earlier.
	I think it's really a lack of resolve and a legitimate disagreement on how we're going to deal with our workforce and deal what Michael would like us to do.
	So I think we need to have an honest debate about this.
	I don't think this Congress is equipped to do it.
	We need to start electing people, Democrats or Republicans, that are willing to take risks and be honest and say, let's come up with a solution here, because we're really putting band-aids on what's been a long-term problem here.
	And then you wanted to respond on the inflation question.
	Yeah, if I could, because, Michael, the best example that I think you're referring to is the price of food.
Margie On The 2020 Election Stolen 00:11:52
	During COVID and the supply chains got all demolished, the price of food went up dramatically.
	And I think many of us suffered through that, but we understood what was happening.
	Well, that's long gone.
	The supply chains are back intact, but food prices have not come down.
	And there's a problem that needs to be addressed.
	It has to be done through regulation and enforcement.
	And the administration ought to start with investigating where people are gaming the system, particularly the middleman, on whether it's eggs, beef, milk, any other type of food, and make sure we start driving these prices down.
	So far, there really hasn't been a lot of interest in that.
	Margie is in Meadville, Pennsylvania, on our line for Republicans.
	Good morning, Margie.
	Good morning.
	As you said, I'm from Meadville.
	It's about halfway between Erie and Pittsburgh.
	And Pittsburgh, it kind of follows Minneapolis in that it's a blue-collar city.
	There's no big problems in Pittsburgh.
	We have a few people in our town, maybe a dozen, marching around the park.
	So it has to do with the leaders.
	And instead of the leaders in Minneapolis saying, let's all go home and cool down, they're up there saying, stand up, fight for your city, fight for your country.
	So I think it has a lot to do with the leaders.
	And I'm 88.
	I can talk to even these gentlemen like a Dutch uncle.
	These are not peaceful protests.
	We are allowed to protest peacefully, spitting on the people, screaming at them through fog horns, blocking their cars.
	They should arrest them immediately, send them to some vacant military base for a few days so that they can lose money at their jobs, which I don't know.
	Does anybody there have a job?
	They're all out in the street.
	So it needs to be handled.
	So, Margie, I just want to make sure I'm understanding you clearly.
	Are you saying that people who protest in Minnesota should be sent to detention?
	Well, of course.
	If they're spitting on the people that are doing their job, if they're screaming at them, that's not peaceful protests.
	All right.
	Let's get Adam to respond to this.
	Well, Margie, thank you for your call.
	How do I address this?
	I think leaders bear a responsibility as much as anybody, probably more than the public, for making sure that they don't consciously feed the flames of separation in society and distrust.
	And I think that happens a lot as people try to score political points, especially in the teeth of a challenge or a disaster.
	For instance, and I wanted to comment on this earlier, Kimberly, when you talk about ICE and other things, there are laws that ICE is attempting to enforce and up against, for instance, the idea of sanctuary cities, where there's been a lot of encouragement in certain parts of America to defy the law and to take their definition of the law into their own hands.
	Jim mentioned e-verify as something that wasn't being fully enforced.
	Whatever the law is, if it's not right, then do everything you can to change it.
	But I object to public leaders who stand up and they know that by saying certain things, they're going to incite the very things that Margie is commenting on in different parts of the country.
	I think in Minnesota, the mayor is very guilty of that.
	This is a state that not long ago was under the public microscope and remains there because of its governor and the fraud that he was allowing to happen on his watch, which drove him from running for re-election, the very gentleman who wanted to be vice president of the United States.
	So I hope in the middle of a tragedy that we've seen in Minnesota of late, that the response is not to feed, put more fuel on the fire.
	It's to try to get to the bottom line of what's going on, what we need to do about it.
	And my opinion is: if there is a sense in America with ICE, for instance, that we ought to get rid of it, well, and get rid of border enforcement and everything ICE stands for, then what are you going to replace that with?
	Come up with a remedy.
	Jim said that earlier.
	I do want to hear from Jim, particularly on this point about whether the local leaders in Minnesota hold responsibility for the nature of what's been happening there, but also Margie's idea that people who protest should be sent to detention.
	So let's start with where things started really going downhill.
	When Renee Good was tragically killed, the Secretary of DHS rushed to judgment and immediately said nothing happened that was wrong on the part of DHS.
	You know, that was a mistake.
	People expect folks in positions of authority to be thoughtful and honest, and nobody exactly knew what had happened.
	The White House voices of leaders there have been inconsistent to be charitable.
	We need somebody who is credible in law enforcement from the federal side to start being open and honest about what's happening.
	The same thing's true with local and state leaders.
	I think it's fair to say, Margie, that the rhetoric is terribly inflamed.
	These folks in Minnesota feel like they've got to back up against the wall.
	They too are saying inflammatory things.
	They feel under siege.
	And to your point about protests, yes, protests should be peaceful, and that has gotten out of hand.
	Again, folks feel like their back is up against the wall.
	But here's the most important thing: law enforcement is trained on how to use force responsibly.
	And what we unfortunately are seeing is use of excessive force.
	For example, this morning, DHS was saying they shot this gentleman because he was armed.
	Well, now we're seeing that he was not armed when they shot him.
	They made a mistake.
	It's an unforgivable, tragic mistake.
	So these are the ingredients that have caused the problem, and this is what we need to address to get things back in hand.
	Ruben is in Jacksonville, Florida on our line for Democrats.
	Good morning, Ruben.
	How y'all doing today?
	And I thank the House for you bringing me on.
	First, I'm going to tell you, like I see it down here.
	I'm down here in Jacksonville, Florida, and I see things that I'm not pleased with.
	First of all, Trump lie when you say the election was stolen from him.
	And I like when you guys ask questions.
	And you still lie.
	You lie when you say the election was stolen, and he's not doing anything what he's supposed to be doing.
	And I think he's trying to get everybody teaching from SD file.
	That you keep the people looking at what's going on.
	So I like your guess.
	Tell me why this man is telling lie.
	Everything come out of his mouth is a lie.
	The Republicans be down with it.
	All right.
	So then let's let Adam respond to that in particular about the president continuing to say that the 2020 election was stolen and also that this everything that's going on might be a distraction from the Epstein files.
	I appreciate the call from Ruben.
	Look, you know, I remember when Kimberly, I was involved, and maybe I've shared this with you before.
	I apologize if I'm repeating myself.
	When I was involved in the 2000 recount of Florida, Ruben probably remembers that pretty well, too.
	And I was working with Secretary of State Catherine Harris.
	And the most important thing I felt from day one was making sure we didn't do anything inadvertently to feed the distrust Americans may have for our system of elections.
	Because if that goes away, everything else goes away.
	And I think there have been a lot of allegations of election tampering and other things in recent elections.
	Even supporters of the former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, when she ran in 2016, when she failed to beat Donald Trump in the 16 presidential election, four out of 10 in the polls, Kimberly, were talking about there was some degree of chicanery or fraud because there's no way that Hillary Clinton could have lost to Donald Trump.
	So I want to say that anything we can do to reinstill confidence in the American electoral system, we need to do.
	The president has his own views about the 2020 election.
	It's unfortunate that some still want to dwell in that election and not to look forward to what we need to do to make sure the process is beyond reproach.
	And in terms of your comments about essentially, Ruben, everything the president says is untrue.
	I'm sorry.
	I just don't agree with that.
	I can't buy that because I think in the world of politics, a lot of things that are.
	But I think Rubin was asking specifically to hear you refute that the president's narrative that the 2020 election was stolen.
	I think the president has that point of view.
	I think others have that point of view.
	Many others do not.
	The bigger question, though, Kimberly, is do we have a system of elections in place where people can say after election day, or of course, election day now bleeds into election week, that the result was legitimate and we move forward.
	Until or unless this country is united in saying we have confidence in that verdict, I think we still have an issue and I think we have to figure out how to clean it up because that's the beginning, in my opinion, that's the beginning of the end of trust in democracy.
	Just because you said that, especially after that election that you helped, you know, with the recount in 2000, that it was important to be clear and to say things that instilled confidence in our elections.
	Do you think the 2020 election was stolen?
	Personally?
	Yes.
	No.
	No, I think it was, I mean, if it were a close, in every close election, Kimberly, you always think, okay, is it really accurate?
	Is it really true?
	I mean, in 2000, as you remember, the final official verdict of difference in the state of Florida, which threw the presidency one way versus the other, was 537 votes.
	Was that the actual absolute number in a state that casts millions and millions of votes with hanging Chads and everything else and all the challenges?
	It was our best shot, Kimberly, at trying to get to a number that we could stand behind, even saying, is it completely, fully, without question, no, because unfortunately, one of the hardest things in democracy is a close election in terms of public confidence.
	Martin is in Holland, Michigan on our line for independence.
Training Protesters 00:09:29
	Good morning, Martin.
	Yes, I got a couple points.
	Number one, when you talk about polling, hey, I don't believe in polls.
	They're always misleading because it's based on the way you ask the questions.
	Number two, is your subject line along the bottom says political news of the week.
	Getting back to the previous segment where it says about the federal shooting in Minneapolis, a newspaper man, I'm so old, a newspaper man years ago said the best way to sell newspapers, if it bleeds, it leads.
	And you said a second fatal shooting by the government.
	What about if you would have had second individual confronting law enforcement?
	All right.
	And then the third point is when you're talking about DHS, defunding DHS or getting rid of ICE.
	And a lot of comments about training, training, training.
	Where is the training for the governor of Minnesota?
	Where is the training for the mayor of Minnesota?
	Where is the training for the so-called protesters?
	And every news outlet, whether it be FOTS, MSNBC, et cetera, et cetera, they talk about protesters.
	Doggona, they aren't protesters.
	There's rioters.
	So make a clear distinction between rioters and protesters.
	And where is the training for the protesters?
	All right.
	Jim, do you want to respond to Martin's questions?
	Well, I mean, it's sad we've gotten to the point where we're talking about training protesters.
	It reminds me of training kids to deal with shooters in schools.
	It's a sad word discussing this.
	I think folks know they have a responsibility to respect law enforcement.
	We entrust law enforcement with use of deadly force.
	That trust has been shredded in Minneapolis.
	And I think it's incumbent on the mayor, the governor, and the federal government to work together to restore trust.
	The governor's announced today that he's going to bring the National Guard in.
	They are more trained than the Border Patrol agents are to deal with how to use force appropriately.
	I hope that will be part of the solution.
	And I just think it's important that we're all watching what's happening here because what's happening in Minneapolis is happening around the country and mistakes are being made and they're going to be repeated unless the situation changes.
	And I think responsibility starts with the federal government and I think it gives the governor and the mayor a chance to work together with them.
	Stan is in New York on our line for Republicans.
	Good morning, Stan.
	Hey, how are you doing?
	So I just want to say that, yeah, I think it's out of control.
	We can't be killing Americans.
	Those people are Americans, you know, and I feel really bad for them.
	You know, but on the other hand, you can't be obstructing justice and messing with police as well.
	You know, and like the congressman just said, you know, are you going to train the protesters?
	Because it seems like the word protest has gotten twisted.
	You know, people seem to think protesting is firing now.
	What do you do about that?
	You know, I don't know.
	Something else I want to say.
	You guys have been talking about, I notice everybody talks about democracy.
	The thing about that is, there's no democracy in my house.
	My house is an authoritarianism, or however you say that, or dictatorship.
	You know, what I say, go.
	And the thing about that is we have to keep law and order.
	You know, law and order, because otherwise it'll be total chaos, just like it is in Minneapolis.
	Just chaos.
	You know, police, we can't get rid of police.
	We can't get rid of ICE.
	We can't do that.
	This is why you can go in Red Lobster with your family and have a nice dinner.
	Because without police, you wouldn't be able to do that.
	You'd have to have bars on your windows and stuff like that.
	You know, and so with all respect, Congressman Cleaver, you know, I feel that Trump is all American and he cares about America.
	How can you not get on board with America first?
	All right.
	Since that was targeted at you, Jim, go ahead.
	So it sounds like Stan is a parent when he talked about how to run the household.
	And I had two teenage sons, and I tried to do what you did, Stan, but they're adults now.
	And I think we should treat citizens as adults.
	And I think we need to preserve our precious right to peacefully protest.
	It's how this country was founded.
	It's healthy.
	It is messy as is democracy.
	But I think that we can come together and resolve these issues if we stop just deciding Democrats are always wrong and Republicans are always wrong.
	And it sounds to me like you have a pretty independent view about how we should work together on this stuff.
	As far as putting America first, I think threatening to invade Greenland is not putting American first.
	And I still don't get why attacking Venezuela is putting American first.
	I think putting America first is trying to create opportunities, respect people's right to exercise their freedom.
	And I think we're actually moving away from that in the Trump administration.
	Karen is in Chester, Pennsylvania, on our line for Democrats.
	Good morning, Karen.
	Yes, it seems to me that those two things that were just mentioned, America first and the other thing, are just slogans.
	He doesn't really work at that.
	But I'd really like to ask the gentleman what they think.
	Well, let me just preface it with a statement.
	Over the King holiday, I watched a lot of footage on the King, you know, from 55 all the way up to 68 and a few other documentaries that they showed.
	But to have this happen, some of those shots in those movies were Bloody Sunday.
	Some of those shots in the movies, people were being dragged and hit with fire hoses and people were being just beaten by police.
	And it seems to me that we're just going backwards.
	I'd like to know what the gentleman think about the ultimatum that was given to the governor from the Attorney General.
	Did they not only have to, you know, change to the immigration laws that Trump wants them to obey, which is fine with me.
	My grandparents were immigrants.
	They came here the right way.
	But nobody drug them out before they had a chance to apply for citizenship.
	Nobody drug them out when they were on their way to immigration court.
	And no one, I don't understand.
	Karen, let's let Adam respond to some of those points that you raised.
	Karen, thank you for the call.
	It's interesting that you talk about MLK Jr.
	I mean, because I was thinking kind of the same thing going back when I was very, very young and all the campus unrest and the protests in the 60s.
	And that was a very, very scary time to be living through in America.
	And then I was comparing that, it's funny because I was thinking about the very thing to what's happening now.
	You know, we've seen, because of Gaza, what happened on college campuses, where basically the willingness to tolerate certain protests that were literally making, in this case, Jewish students feel very, very insecure and threatened is not to be tolerated.
	I'm sorry, you have to draw the line somewhere.
	And that to me is as insidious as some of the violence we saw in the 60s.
	It's just less obvious, but no less impactful.
	And I think that in terms of what, if you don't mind, Kimberly, something that Jim just said about Venezuela, Venezuela, it was not just about the Maduros making billions for themselves and putting it offshore and taking care of themselves.
	It was about the cartel of the Sons, which basically was a government-sanctioned cartel where all the people around the inner circle were not only making a fortune, but they were fermenting the kinds of things that cartels are now well known for-human trafficking, sex trafficking, fentanyl.
	And the idea that Venezuela somehow, I just disagree with Jim, is less relevant to America than these other issues, I categorically reject.
	And I think when the news comes out about what was really happening under the Maduro watch and how Cuba and Russia and China and Iran were in cahoots, as well as the cartels, were in cahoots with this government to, in part, destabilize a lot of things in America.
Americans Calling: Shock and Inconvenience 00:06:25
	It's going to shock people and it's going to, I think, waken us to the fact that if we want to prevent the kinds of things, the kinds of violence that we see at times in this country, we've got to come to terms with the inconvenience, as Al Gore would say, the inconvenient truth of things.
	And this is one of those, as inconvenient as it may be, I think is going to be so truthful, it's going to shock people.
	Jim Bo is in Bakersfield, California on our line for independence.
	Good morning, Jimbo.
	Hey, a shout out to Brian Lamb and all my heroes at C-STAN Washington Journal for your daily contribution to democracy.
	Hey, gentlemen, sometimes it looks as if the administration is using ICE to cause enough violence so that the president can justify invoking the Insurrection Act, declare martial law, and then suspend the rights of habeas corpus.
	Perhaps the president, you know, it's really a brilliant strategy because you either flood all the urban areas with so much police before election in the midterms that people are afraid to go vote and then outlaw mail-in ballots, or you just postpone them because we're now in martial law.
	All right.
	So again, Jimmy, it seems more like the violence and all of this disruption, they're not, they're the reason for it.
	They want this.
	They want this because the president wants to invoke the Insurrection Act.
	And what better way to do it than to cause violence in the urban areas?
	So I'd like your opinion on this theory.
	And I thank you so much for the opportunity to present it in the Washington Journal.
	All right.
	Jim first, then Adam.
	Well, let's talk about some of the solutions here.
	When are the nation's governors?
	And it's not Democrats or Republicans.
	It's governors.
	They are the folks that protect the sanctity of our elections.
	They're getting ready for these midterms, which are going to be very important.
	Regardless of what the White House says or tries to do, it's very important we have free and fair elections that folks have confidence in the outcome, particularly as Adam mentioned, in a close outcome.
	I think we haven't talked about the courts this morning.
	The courts have been stopping a lot of the steps that Jimbo referred to.
	And it's important to notice these are not Democratic or Republican federal judges.
	These are federal judges in many cases that are making decisions that are very non-political from their standpoint.
	So what we've been debating this morning is the use of force.
	And it's very important that it is used responsibly.
	I think we as a country have a healthy disregard for too much power.
	Unfortunately, in Washington, in many states, one political party's in control, we've lost the check and balance.
	The courts are still providing that.
	I think the governors are going to step up in the coming months and show more adult supervision than we're seeing in Washington.
	Adam?
	Well, first of all, I want to echo what the caller said about Washington Journal.
	And I hope everyone that's listening to this understands that this program and things that C-SPAN does are so vitally important.
	And I'm always heartened.
	I think I speak for Jim here as well, that we have Americans calling in from all over the country.
	And most of the questions, I mean, maybe not all, but most of the questions are very legitimately reflecting what people are feeling and want to get information about.
	So thank you for providing that format.
	And I think where we're living through right now is a period of great frustration with the system.
	Donald Trump, certainly, as an outsider, as a disruptor, was elected because of that in 2016 and again in 24.
	I think now Mayor Mamdoni in New York was reflected as an outsider, as a disruptor, because of that.
	I think people are really upset that the system is letting them down.
	You talk about biggest threats to democracy.
	I think I said 10 minutes ago, it's about the vote as one key part of that.
	Another part of that is making sure that we don't lose confidence on this other front as well in terms of our institutions.
	The president is out to fundamentally change and transform the system.
	The courts are weighing in at times and they are saying no to certain initiatives that the administration has put out there.
	It doesn't mean the president's appetite has been discouraged from doing the very thing he said he wanted to do.
	And what Americans said very clearly in 2024, if not also in 2016, they don't think the system is working well.
	They don't think it's protecting the interests not only of this country, but of themselves and their families.
	They want change.
	And sometimes change can be very, very unwieldy, unpredictable, not a straight line, but it is exactly what Americans have been calling for.
	And I think for good reason, and I think the results to come, not just in terms of this administration, but even in New York City, are very important for people to watch as an indicator of whether change is still possible.
	Well, thank you both so much for your time.
	Adam Goodman is a Republican strategist and also the host of the 13th NPARC podcast.
	Thanks so much for joining us.
	Thank you.
	And Jim Davis is a former U.S. Representative, Democrat from Florida.
	Really appreciate your time this morning.
	Thank you.
	Later on this morning on Washington Journal, we'll be joined by journalist and author Kenneth Rosen to talk about his new book, Polar War, about how the Arctic is the new front in a new Cold War.
	But first, after the break, we'll have open forum.
	It's going to be your chance to weigh in on any political topic on your mind this morning.
	You can start calling in now.
	Our phone lines for Democrats, 202-748-8000.
	For Republicans, 202-748-8001.
	And for Independents, 202-748-8002.
	We'll be right back.
Open Forum: Political Topics 00:02:49
	Tonight on C-SPAN's Q&A, in his book, Retribution, ABC News Chief Washington Correspondent Jonathan Carl gives a behind-the-scenes look at Donald Trump's 2024 presidential campaign win.
	Mr. Carl also talks about his longtime relationship with the 47th president and the contrast between President Trump's public and private sides.
	You're not a wonderful person.
	Frankly, you're a terrible reporter.
	You know it, and so do I.
	Okay, so as we were leaving, which was right after that, and took maybe one or two more, and we're told to leave, Trump motions to me to come towards the Resolute Desk.
	And he does this kind of emotion.
	He's like, we're okay.
	You know, basically saying, we're okay.
	We're okay.
	Don't worry about that.
	And I turned to him and I just said, I said, that was tough.
	And he goes, oh, you were tough.
	No, you were tough.
	Jonathan Carl with his book, Retribution, tonight at 8 p.m. Eastern on C-SPAN's Q ⁇ A. You can listen to Q&A and all of our podcasts on our free C-SPAN Now app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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	Washington Journal continues.
	Welcome back.
	We're in open forum, ready to take your calls.
	Benny is in DeSoto, Texas on our line for Democrats.
	Good morning, Benny.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, everyone.
	And thanks, C-SPAN, for taking my call.
Democratic Process At Stake 00:15:40
	I'm calling with regards to the fact that, you know, people in this country fail to realize sometimes that the Democratic process is at stake right now.
	And people are talking about when their people and when the other immigrants came to America, well, there was no immigration laws.
	And I'm sure there have been some of those people that were turned around and turned back.
	However, I will say this as well.
	It's that, you know, there have been laws that have been passed, that laws have been put before the Congress.
	And, you know, just as you stated earlier, The runner-up, the president that is now in place, said, Do not pass the law.
	You know, that's just great.
	So I don't feel as though they have an imperative to fix immigration.
	They just want to use it as a talking point.
	And there was a lady on earlier, I would say, that talked about the fact that, you know, what's been going on since the 1800s.
	Well, when black people were coming out of emancipation and everything, they were standing in the middle of the road trying to figure out which way to go beyond slavery while they were giving away millions of acres of land to immigrants for white nations.
	So, you know, my point that I guess I will make is the fact that, you know, this administration here is not trying to fix anything.
	They're trying to burn it down for our troposho and for this kingdom that they want to reflect.
	Because when you talk about making America great again, great for who?
	It was only great for white folks.
	It's never been great for anyone else that was a minority in this country.
	We've always had to fight.
	If we did, we wouldn't need another set of laws like civil rights or things like that.
	We would just have human rights.
	So those people that call in and they want to justify this action in which the president and this administration is doing, that's no, no, no, that's evil.
	They're not doing what the, you know, I think we have the idea, Benny.
	Let's go to James in Grand Rapids, Michigan on our line for Republicans.
	Good morning, James.
	I voted Republican, and now I'm starting to question myself saying bloodshed of American citizens.
	And it might be something small for others that they haven't, you know, looked at and realized.
	But I see Trump doing this ballroom.
	And I say, all the millions, hundreds of millions that's going into that, is he planning on leaving office?
	Because if he was, I don't think he would be billing a ballroom for the next president.
	So I think what we're seeing today is setting up for him to try to stay in office.
	That's why all these ICE agents that they're hiring and putting them around the country, because when the election comes, those agents is going to be in blue states trying to keep people from the voting box.
	I think he flimflam America.
	I knew he flimflamed me.
	So I'm very worried about the future of America.
	And thinking back now, listening to the Democrats talking about our democracy was at stake with Trump.
	It's all coming to fruition, if you ask me.
	Tanya is in Tampa, Florida, on our line for independence.
	Good morning, Tanya.
	Good morning.
	Thank you for giving my call.
	My question, and I wanted to just ask: who pays the insurance coverage for all the politicians?
	And I wonder if they would be, so if it is the taxpayers, I wonder if they would be so disregarding or not concerned about how we've lost the coverage for numerous Americans.
	Would they feel the same way if they were being affected?
	Because I'm not sure who fits the bill for the politicians, which I already think it's going to be the taxpayers.
	But that just really concerns me of how they are not being due diligent on reinstating or getting some type of coverage for these Americans that have lost their insurance health coverage.
	And thank you for taking my call.
	Nicole is in Jersey City, New Jersey on our line for Democrats.
	Good morning, Nicole.
	My name is Adams.
	Can you hear me okay?
	Yes, we can hear you.
	Thank you.
	I feel very grateful that I get to speak to you this morning because yesterday was a nightmare for this country.
	I also appreciate your guest, Mr. Goodman, because as a Democrat, hearing a Republican with his posture and being able to speak without insulting people, that's what our country is built on.
	It's people who are different talking to each other and trying to come to an agreement.
	My question for him was if he had seen the video of Alex Pretty, who was a VA nurse and had a concealing carry permit and was unarmed at the time with his shirt over his head, and he was shot by ICE agents.
	So my question, because he said we shouldn't defund ICE, how can we not defund ICE?
	How can the people not call for ICE to be defunded and shut down the government?
	Because this is a constitutional emergency right now.
	They're executing Americans.
	And I think that every politician that stands with the people needs to go to Minnesota, go to Minneapolis, stand there, stand in the streets with those people in the cold, and watch what is happening because we elected them in office.
	This is completely unacceptable.
	And thank you so much.
	Mike is in Covington, Indiana on our line for Republicans.
	Good morning, Mike.
	Yes.
	I was kind of worried about the X team thing.
	You know, most girls are promiscuous by the time they're 16.
	Robert is in Rex, Georgia on our line for independence.
	Good morning, Robert.
	Good morning.
	So many issues.
	First of all, I'm a longtime listener, and this is my first time on the air, but I want to talk about the leadership vacuum in this country.
	I mean, it goes from the local level here in Rex, Georgia.
	You look on the ballots.
	Only people running is the incumbents.
	You look at the federal government.
	It's either one far end of the liberal end to one far right end on the right.
	And nothing's getting done for the people in the meantime.
	I mean, it's going on year after year, term after term, politician after politician.
	And the citizens here are just left holding the bag.
	You know, we got so many problems in this country, and there's no hope for resolving any of them.
	So I just want to tell all Americans to go to the polls and vote your conscience.
	Vote for the best person you think that can get the job done.
	Thank you, America, and have a great day.
	Osinsemi is in Pensacola, Florida on our line for Democrats.
	Good morning, Osinsemi.
	Yes, I have been listening to Republican explanations, and it's almost like the president can do no wrong.
	No one working for him can do any wrong because no one can do any wrong.
	Congress goes along with everything that he does, but he does lie.
	And it's almost like, no, it's not almost like it is, if you repeat the Lie enough out loud.
	People are going to believe it because you're saying it out loud.
	The lie is that things are better and getting better and they're not.
	Maybe under Biden, we paid more for gas, but now we're paying $15 a pound for ground beef.
	This is absolutely insane.
	You get a Republican on there, and they don't see anything wrong with ICE shooting somebody in the head.
	They don't seem to see anything wrong with American citizens being dragged out into the cold weather in their underwear with a blanket thrown around their shoulder with the excuse that ICE is looking for a pervert, and the pervert is already in jail.
	I don't understand how we can suspend our conscience along political lines.
	People are being hurt.
	Children are being victimized.
	And we are being duped.
	And if you don't know your history, you are bound to repeat it.
	And when people say that Jews are not to be intimidated, then you need to understand what happened in Germany with Kristallnacht, which was the night that the Gestapo went through and broke out the windows of the Jewish merchants.
	We are radicalizing our own people in this country for an excuse for martial law.
	And when that martial law is upon us, a lot of those people who are in support of the big lie, the big, beautiful lie, are going to finally say, I didn't sign up for this.
	Scott is in Effingham, Illinois on our line for Republicans.
	Good morning, Scott.
	Good morning, America and fellow patriots, and may God bless you, Kimberly, and everybody that works at C-SPAN.
	As a decorated Vietnam veteran, I've traveled the world three times around this world, and nowhere in the world can you protest even peacefully as witnessed by what's going on in Iran, killing thousands of their people, China, Tiananmen Square, North Korea.
	You just can't do that.
	I know we have government things, you know, it's in our Constitution, but this peace, it's not really peacefully.
	Okay, I have a bumper sticker for 40 years on my truck.
	It says, America, love it or leave it.
	I've been approached by a dozen people recently and saying, what does that mean?
	And I have an intelligent conversation with these people, and it's not that I changed their minds, but they listen to what I say and say, we've got the greatest country in the world, and we should defend this country and love this country, not have this chaos that we're having.
	But secondly, and this is very important for all the people in this country, even immigrants, listen to me.
	I had an earache a few weeks ago, and I bought this prescription, whether it's a drug, it's not prescription, from a big box store.
	And it was $15, not the cheap stuff.
	My wife, God bless her, she's 79 years old.
	She put two drops in my ear.
	Within five seconds, my ear exploded like a shotgun.
	I had to go.
	I screamed in bloody pain.
	I've been close to death five times in my life, and this was the worst.
	If I could have got to my pistol, I probably would have ended my life.
	Let's move on.
	Ms. Italy is in Los Angeles, California on our line for independence.
	Good morning, Miss Italy.
	Hi.
	Thank you so much for taking my call.
	This is my first time seeing C-SPAN and what you guys are doing, the Washington Journal.
	And, you know, I'm a transgender person displaced in a hotel right now in Los Angeles and am experiencing hate firsthand.
	Just yesterday, a guy across the street at Target pulled a gun on me all because I was living and breathing and existing.
	And by hair, my Chime Chin Chin, I was able to, you know, escape that.
	You guys are offering people to the table.
	And that is absolutely, I say thank you for inviting people to the table to honestly have an honest discussion whether they agree or they disagree.
	I guess my question, I guess my comment first is that can we really say that we live in the land of the free?
	If the very fundamental characteristic traits of America is the fact that we are such a beautiful gumble pot, and then our government is trying to take that away and like point the finger at certain demographics of society and basically point an invisible gun at people and using our military and our citizens,
	our militarizing our citizens and deputizing them and making them federal agents in a way that they then have the legal right to kill people.
	Can we really say we live in the free land when the transgender community is now hiding because we're so afraid.
	We're so afraid of just being us.
	And our government is, you know, now they're saying things on the line and over the television that they would have never said three or four or five years ago.
	And can we really say we live in the home of the free when we are not even allowed?
	What if I'm atheist?
	What if I don't agree with the Christian state?
	Are my rights being respected as an atheist?
	Do I have the right not to agree and then be who I am?
	And then my final point is that do you really think that the LGBTQI community right now in today's society, when we are targets, would then still choose with everyone dying, with them assassinating, assassinating our Americans, do you think that we would choose to just be transgender because it's a fad, because it's a trend?
	No, we are living whatever truth we have left.
	And I say we don't shouldn't have to die.
	What are we doing?
	We are killing Americans.
	Keith Porter was killed in his apartment complex.
	The man went next door and put his suit on and came out and murdered him.
	Yes, he shot off a fire in celebratory for the New Year's.
	But that man premeditated.
	It was premeditated.
	He went back in his unit, got fully dressed, came back out and murdered someone.
	We've got to do better.
	Susan is in Richmond, Virginia, on our line for Democrats.
Cold-Blooded Murder in Minneapolis 00:02:35
	Good morning, Susan.
	Good morning.
	I just want to express a lot of agreement with many of the other Democratic and independent callers about ICE.
	And I truly believe that ICE has been assembled by Trump and Christy Noam to be an extrajudicial brown shirt army that's not just about border control and immigration enforcement.
	I think it's absolutely and positively being used to intimidate and now murder Americans.
	Anybody who's aware of the facts of yesterday and the killing of that disarmed man in Minneapolis will know he was murdered.
	That is just cold-blooded murder.
	And so this is, we are in a new age now.
	This is an authoritarian regime.
	We are being purposefully intimidated prior to the elections because Donald Trump is afraid of losing.
	He's afraid of being impeached again.
	He's afraid of being kicked out of power.
	So, and the Republicans, just not a peep.
	The only Republicans brave enough to stand up against Donald Trump are the ones who are on their way out.
	Nobody in office in the Republican Party is doing anything to curb this violence, and the hypocrisy is just unbelievable because now they're saying, like Jim Jordan, proclaiming that January 6th, those individuals who perpetrated that riot and tried to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power,
	they were peaceful.
	They were peaceful protesters calling for the hanging of Mike Pence, the murder of Nancy Pelosi, breaking in windows, assaulting police officers.
	I don't care if the Minneapolis protesters are spitting at these officers who, brown shirt officers, who are hiding their faces, brutally attacking people.
	They may spit at him.
	That's not good, but it does not rise to the level of a riot.
Unfiltered Democracy 00:03:00
	All right.
	That's about all the time that we have for Open Forum today.
	Thanks to everybody who called in.
	Up next, we're going to be joined by journalist and author Kenneth Rosen.
	He's going to talk about his new book, Polar War: Submarines, Spies, and the Struggle for Power in a Melting Arctic.
	We'll be right back.
	Watch America's Book Club, C-SPAN's bold original series.
	Today, with our guest, Christopher Buckley, best-selling satirical author and son of conservative writer William F. Buckley.
	He has written more than a dozen books, including The White House Mess, Thank You for Smoking, Florence of Arabia, and The Deeply Personal, Losing Mum and Pup.
	He joins our host, renowned author and civic leader David Rubinstein.
	You have written 20 books, many of them satires.
	Satire is a lost art a bit.
	I don't see that many satirists that are best-selling authors.
	There are.
	Carl Hyacinth, Dave Farrey, although they might be more classified as humorists.
	The difference between a satire and a humorist, you would say, is hundreds of thousands of sales.
	Watch America's Book Club with Christopher Buckley today at 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN.
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	Washington Journal continues.
Arctic Ambassadors and Warming Lands 00:15:08
	Welcome back.
	We're joined now by Kenneth Rosen, who is an author of the new book, Polar War: Submarines, Spies, and the Struggle for Power in a Melting Arctic.
	Welcome to Washington Journal.
	Hey, thanks for having me.
	Let's talk about the title of the book, Polar War.
	War is a very strong word.
	Why did you choose that?
	Well, it seemed to me after three years traveling across the circumpolar north that there were great powers competing for resources and access to the far north, and this constituted a different kind of war, a struggle over how to define a region that has largely been one of cooperation and scientific research.
	And so it's a battle.
	It's a war for power and dominance in a place that had long been sort of icebound and neglected.
	You know, in the book, you lay out that it has become what you argue to be a new front line in global politics.
	I want to read a bit of an excerpt.
	Nations near and far from the region have seen the warming, and this is talking about climate change, as an opportunity for expansion and military dominance.
	And what they have cooked up is a conflict teetering towards full-blown war, even in a place that has largely been historically regarded as inaccessible due to geopolitical ambitions.
	Can you talk particularly about the impact of climate change on the development of what you're calling a polar war?
	Sure.
	So when I went about writing the book, I wanted to focus on a narrative that hadn't been largely tackled in other books about the Arctic and the media at large.
	What climate change meant for the rest of us, right?
	We all don't live in the Arctic.
	We don't live above, many of us don't live above the Arctic Circle.
	And so the changes there, how is that going to affect the rest of us?
	And the melting of the polar cap, the four to five times warming that is dominating the North is making it more accessible to a lot of nations who otherwise wouldn't have been privy to that area.
	So when we think about the Arctic, we think about the Arctic electoral states or the Arctic Council, which is comprised of eight nations, right?
	You have the Scandinavian and Nordic countries, and then Canada, the US, Iceland, and Russia, who are primary Arctic stakeholders.
	Then there are places like India and Turkey and China who are calling themselves near Arctic states and seeking to have a role in the decisions being made in the Arctic, primarily because the climate change at the top of the world is also impacting their lands.
	So you start to see a lot of different nations who otherwise wouldn't be in that area moving in and showing interest and navigating those waters more freely.
	Let's talk about geography for a moment.
	You know, we're talking about the Arctic sort of writ large, but what areas in particular are really the focus of your research here?
	Sure, I make a distinction in the book that there is no really one way to define the Arctic or the sub-Arctic.
	The definitions vary depending on who you ask.
	There is, of course, the Arctic Circle, but it changes if you're looking at whether it's where permafrost begins or where the last tree line ends.
	So, when I talk about the Arctic, I mean anything that is struggling now to define itself because of climate change.
	We see communities that are slipping into the ocean or that are being battered by 100 years, weather events that would have otherwise been contained in part due to the ice that was there.
	So, it's just this area that is largely seen in the summer through light and then in the winter through dark, which is another way of defining the Arctic.
	But I purposely made a loose distinction during my travels.
	If you believe that you lived in the Arctic, that was good enough for me.
	You know, this is a timely book, obviously, with all of the discussion around Greenland and President Trump's push to acquire the territory.
	You write one could be forgiven for thinking tensions in the Arctic, perhaps most prominently embodied by President Donald J. Trump's egregious campaign to get and secure Greenland as another American territory, came out of nowhere, but it did not.
	Historically, the American desire to control Greenland has existed nearly as long as America itself.
	It was not Trump's rhetoric of a takeover that struck me during my years spent traveling and reporting on the circumpolar north.
	It was the ineptitude surrounding the idea to publicly make threats of invading Greenland while America continually fails by all metrics in the Arctic at home and abroad seemed an anathema to our own desires and lacking abilities across the region.
	Why do you think that?
	What did you see in your travels that made you think that the United States is so ill-equipped in the Arctic?
	Well, I just want to note that I had written that in January of 2025.
	So it is interesting for me to see how it remained prescient, even though we've gone through a whole year of President Trump's second administration, and the rhetoric was still there, despite it also being present in the first Trump administration.
	But specifically to your question, when I was traveling with the U.S. Coast Guard in the Bering Sea and also in the Arctic Ocean just north of Norway, it was very clear to me that the Americans weren't prepared for operating long-term in the high north.
	I had spent time with the Swedish Armed Forces.
	I had spent time with the Norwegian border guards.
	I had spent time with the Finnish border guards, all of whom exhibited great competency in Arctic conditions and cold weather warfare, as opposed to the Americans who seemed beaten and weathered and not equipped, literally and figuratively equipped to be able to sustain operations in the north.
	And even our NATO partners who primarily live and operate above the Arctic Circle in Finnish Lapland and in Norway told me stories about the times that they had worked with American forces and felt that they were incapable of operating there.
	Their guns would jam, their equipment would freeze, they would often get trench foot or many other maladies that would otherwise not stricken forces who are accustomed to the region.
	What is trench foot?
	Trenchfoot is when your feet get too cold and wet and then you end up getting gangrene or other you run the risk of losing the foot.
	And I saw that in Alaska when I was embedded with the 11th Airborne Division of the U.S. Army.
	But even just last week, the Americans were conducting a NATO exercise in Finland and had to surrender to the Finnish, their Finnish counterparts because of inexperience in the high north.
	So it's still ongoing, a thing that we've lost since the Cold War.
	I want to talk a little bit more about the impact of climate change there.
	You also write the relationship between a warming planet and the region's militarization was barely a footnote in many nations' global ambitions until about 2010 or so.
	Russia leading the charge with more military bases in the Arctic, greater competency in cold weather operations, and a fleet of icebreakers that dwarfs the maritime Arctic fleets of every other nation.
	America and its allies have meanwhile played catch-up.
	This gets to the idea of sort of more accessible areas, not just for military use, but also commercial use in the area.
	Yeah, that's right.
	The Northern Sea Route is a proposed sea route that is sometimes used that runs north along the Russian coastline with the Arctic Ocean.
	It would cut travel through the Suez Canal, the current shipping route from East Asia to Europe, by 10 to 14 days.
	So this is one of the major pushes that Russia and China are seeking.
	China calls it its Polar Silk Road to open up trade routes that were otherwise icebound for a very long time.
	16 years ago, China was able to navigate it by itself, but now it relies on Russia, its infrastructure along the coastline, in order to make those trips possible.
	Now, whether or not Western nations want to use that or can use it is another discussion, in part because there are so many sanctions that prevent Western nations from using that.
	So that's one of the things that are opening up, and there's certainly more shipping occurring through the Bering Strait as well.
	Last year, no, the year before 2024, there were about 100 ships that transited the Bering Strait, and now last year it was about 800.
	So we're seeing a lot of commercial traffic moving into a region that was otherwise impossible to navigate.
	If folks have questions for Kenneth Rosen about the Arctic and our American ambitions there are in phone lines for Democrats 202-748-8000, for Republicans 202-748-8001, and for Independents, 202748-8002.
	Kenneth, I want to return to the topic of Greenland in particular.
	You know, you contend that the United States has historically neglected the Arctic, especially Alaska.
	But the Trump administration has really renewed its focus there as evidenced by its attention to Greenland.
	What do you think is behind this?
	I think the current administration sees an opportunity to pressure NATO allies into offering something that is already on the table, which is primarily access.
	The U.S. maintains through the Kingdom of Denmark access agreements to minerals and subsurface rights across Greenland, as well as a lease to operate a base in northern Greenland.
	You know, what I've said in the book about neglecting the Arctic still persists today, and the idea that we're going to take Greenland for ourselves, but also face an incompatibility with operating in the far north is wickedly divorced from the realities.
	For instance, the Pacific Space Base, the one I referenced in the north of Greenland, is oftentimes stricken with runways that are cracked and failing because they're built on top of permafrost.
	The buildings are sinking into the ground.
	They don't even have reliable Wi-Fi for the service members who work up there.
	So I think that Trump's big idea is to position America in a more hemispheric approach to national security.
	But we have to remember that we already maintain a lot of the agreements and the facilities necessary to already accomplish that.
	You talk about the impact of all of this on indigenous communities throughout the Arctic and how they're affected by both militarization and this race to the Arctic.
	You know, can you talk about sort of the impact on those communities in particular?
	Sure.
	I was just in September.
	I was out in an indigenous town, indigenous community in Alaska on the Seward Peninsula called Elam.
	And Elam is now seeing more and more outside interest in its proposed uranium mine area.
	About 30 miles north of the town, there's supposed to be a uranium deposit, which would be beneficial to, of course, nuclear power and then military defense equipment.
	And they have no interest in having outsiders come in and tear up their land that has been long used for sustenance fishing and hunting.
	So with the Trump administration's push for more expansion in the Arctic, it's mostly for commercial expansion, for drilling and mineral extraction.
	And these communities don't want to see that expand.
	Under the previous administration, a lot of those lands were marked as preserves and safeguarded against these companies.
	The Ambler Road Project has opened up or is opening up in Alaska off the Dalton Highway, which would cut through parts of the Brooks Range.
	So there's a lot of displacement happening, not only from the weather impacts that we discussed earlier, but also from companies moving in to benefit from this thawing north.
	You're right.
	We have refused to learn from the follies of the past when the heydays of Alaska led to rushes for gold and gas and the segregation of native tribes from pristine stretches of wilderness.
	And this approach will prove fatal for industry, national security, and for the people who reside across the American Arctic.
	You advocate in your book for an Arctic ambassador at large.
	Why?
	The Arctic Ambassador at Large was a historic position that had existed in previous administrations.
	In the previous Biden administration, there was an Arctic ambassador at large who was nominated and approved by the Senate, but was summarily denied or not reinstated after Trump took office in January, last January, excuse me.
	This person, Mark Sfraga, was a champion of the Arctic and had ties to also the security interests of the High North.
	To be able to have someone who was moving about the Arctic, who was in those circles, having those discussions about what we needed to do to improve our own infrastructure and footing in the High North was invaluable to the United States and is now something that doesn't exist.
	Mr. Speager was a part of every discussion about the Arctic that I can think of and knew the players both in the region and outside the region who had stakes within the Arctic.
	For one instance, he was able to still have channels with Russia, which is a major puzzle piece that is missing from the geopolitical powers competing for the High North, in part because they've severed communications within the Arctic Council.
	So having someone who was a champion for American interest in the High North was something that we needed, but no longer have.
	Let's get to some calls with questions for Kenneth Rosen.
	We'll start with Harry in Jamaica, New York on our line for independence.
	Good morning, Harry.
	Good morning.
	Thank you for see Span.
	I just had a question.
	I was watching this really great documentary on a U.S. underground base that they had that they were building, basically like an underground city where they meant to store something like 600 nuclear warheads, but they had to abandon it.
	But, you know, they were talking about how there's this nuclear waste underneath, you know, sort of just sitting there.
	And, you know, that the Danish government is really concerned about this.
	You know, because of global warming and the ice melting faster, it's going to sort of come out into the open and drift into the ocean.
	I'm just curious if the author talks about this at all, or if he thinks maybe this is playing a role at all in what the U.S. is doing now.
Nuclear Waste and Arctic Concerns 00:08:43
	Thank you.
	So the caller is referencing Camp Sentry, which is a Cold War-era base that was in the north of Greenland and near to Patufik Space Base, which is the one that we currently operate in the north of Greenland.
	There were proposed plans to store nuclear warheads there.
	However, all that was stored there were nuclear, mini-nuclear reactors for powering the base and machinery nearby.
	I'm not certain or sold on the idea that that's what's powering the current administration's push for more control over Greenland, but I do know that this is a concern the world over in the high north, not just with nuclear waste that has been dumped there or nuclear testing that is taking place in the north of Russia.
	Other hypersonic missiles are often tested up there.
	But just in general, for example, the Black Plague from the early 1900s, a lot of the people who were killed during that pandemic were buried in frozen tundra and Arctic lands.
	And so what does it mean for them when the ground thaws and when it releases potential bacteria that have been hidden for hundreds of years, right?
	There's also military scientists in the U.S. who are seeking to study biochemical and biological warfare for this very reason, to see if they can find things that are existing within the frozen tundra that could then be used for warfare.
	But I appreciate the question.
	It's certainly something to keep an eye on as the planet warms and thaws.
	John is in Virginia on our line for Democrats.
	Good morning, John.
	Good morning.
	Thank you for taking my call.
	I want to ask you the guests: why do we worry about the Greenland when we can't even handle it here in our own country environmentally?
	Second of all, as an educator, how do you deal with people who don't even believe the environment?
	That every time a Republican administration comes into the power, they get rid of the environment and they try to destroy whatever they can.
	So I really don't get it that how are we going to solve the problem when you're dealing with ignorant people who don't know how environment works?
	So I listened to the answers on the radio.
	Thank you.
	I think Greenland's an overall distraction, and it's certainly a pitiful example of taking American interests and shoving aside the interests of the Inuit people of Greenland who have been seeking independence and self-determination for decades.
	It's a sideshow that is not necessary, for sure.
	I think also it's important to note that as an educator, to realize that what the current administration is admitting to is the existence of climate change, that the planet is changing enough to warrant these attentions to a melting north, to a thawing north.
	That their interest is prefaced on the notion that climate change is real and it's happening.
	Reed is in Silver Spring, Maryland, on our line for Republicans.
	Good morning, Reed.
	Yes.
	I was wondering what is the solution for Trench Foot.
	You said that this is one thing that's making Americans unable to function in the polar area, whereas Finland and Norway have the solution for it.
	So what is the solution for Trench Foot?
	Sure, that's a great question.
	When I was with the Swedish armed forces, we were operating 80 miles north of the Arctic Circle.
	And as they traveled on skis, something that the Americans refused to do, they'd rather traverse the area in snowshoes, they would change their clothes every time they got wet.
	The Americans refused to change their socks when they got wet, and they didn't have the extra clothing in order to change out into drier clothes.
	So simply changing your socks would have prevented trench foot, but I saw it time and again.
	But I also wondered when I was with the 11th Airborne Division whether or not it was just a reason to get out of the cold and to say that they were feeling a little bunion on their foot.
	All right.
	Next up is Eric in Grass Valley, California on our line for independence.
	Good morning, Eric.
	Good morning.
	Just first of all, I just turned this on as it's very early in here in California, and you're fascinating.
	I really appreciate your knowledge and depth and the way you explain these things.
	And I appreciate the other callers asking, how do we explain it?
	Climate change is real.
	The one question I had was the Golden Dome, is that a real thing that they're going to do or currently exist?
	It's a proposal for a missile defense system similar to what we have in the Arctic now, which is the Dew Line or the Northern Defense Line across Canada.
	It's for over-the-horizon attacks, but it's largely outdated and hasn't been updated since the Cold War.
	I spoke with a commander in the Canadian Armed Forces who told me that if something were to break in one of those stations, that satellite stations or relay stations that monitor the air above North America were to break, they wouldn't have the parts to replace it because it's so outdated.
	I think the quote was, it's held together by string and chicken wire at this point.
	So the Golden Dome project would just really be an advancement, a modernization of what infrastructure we already have in the North, but I'm not sure that there has been any moves to accomplish it.
	I do know that the Canadians have devoted some billions of Canadian dollars to modernizing their infrastructure up north, and I don't think we've seen that yet in America.
	Paul is in England and is in our line for Republicans.
	Good morning, Paul.
	Morning.
	The question I want to ask you is, do the Greenland situation will get worse, do you think?
	The situation in Greenland.
	Is it going to get any worse?
	I don't know if it can get worse.
	I think that the bellicose rhetoric coming out of Washington will not cease.
	I think that we're seeing a pause after this framework that was announced at Davos with Mark Root, the Secretary General of NATO.
	I'm certain the tensions have cooled for a short while, but I don't think that the current administration's desire to, quote, get or secure Greenland is over.
	I'm hopeful that the Greenlandic discussion and the Danish people will be able to come to some sort of agreement where they can stand against the current administration in the hopes of securing both NATO's security and North American security.
	What is your sense of this framework of a deal that the president says he's negotiated?
	It's one of those vague things that was mentioned at Davos.
	I don't believe that there is one.
	I think that, if anything, we'll probably see an agreement that mirrors what already exists.
	In 1951, the U.S. agreed with Denmark to acknowledge the sovereignty of the island and to maintain those rights to operate a military base, to secure mining rights as needed.
	So I think that that will come out in a way that already exists to those of us who have followed the Arctic for a while, but would be new for those who haven't heard about the Arctic Islands position in American security apparatus.
	As you were doing the reporting for this book, how open were governments and officials in the United States and elsewhere to talking to you about this?
	I found most welcoming the Scandinavian nations.
	They were certainly keen to speak with an American and learn about our interest in the North and share their stories of being with American operators and American operators and American military units in the North, specifically because it is a book focused on security.
	And they were keen to understand whether or not the next administration was going to put any effort into building more polar security cutters for the Coast Guard, placing more operators in the North, placing more fifth-generation fighters in, say, Greenland.
	But the Americans were a different story.
	They were welcoming insofar as allowing me to tag along during some of these expeditions in the north, but they were also much more cautious and worried about how they were being presented because of some of the examples that I provide in the book, their inability to operate sustained operations in the north.
	I have a story about, within the book, I have a story about the Navy SEALs going out to St. Lawrence Island and finding themselves completely overwhelmed by weather and having to bunk down with locals during a failed training exercise.
	So there were things like that that were, there were tough discussions.
Sea Ice Meltdown 00:14:49
	And there was also a great amount of uncertainty leading into the presidential elections at the time, who would take over the next four years and whether or not they would show either a lack or an increase in interest in the region.
	We have a text message from Melody in Pratt, Kansas, who asks, Mr. Rosen, please explain icebreakers and their importance.
	Sure.
	It's a real funny thing because when I say that the North is melting, and it is, scientists believe that the sea ice at the top of the world will be no longer in existence during the summers by 2030.
	You know, why do we need icebreakers if the ice is melting?
	Well, there'll still be ice in lower latitudes.
	There will still be ice in the Northwest Passage.
	There'll still be ice off the coast of Greenland and all these other regions.
	Just not as much as we've seen in the past, which has traditionally reflected the sun and weather systems back into the atmosphere to keep the planet the temperature that it is.
	So it's important to have icebreakers in order to navigate those areas.
	But as the commercial shipping lanes open up, we have to understand that a lot of those boats aren't built for ice and traversing icy waters.
	So to have icebreakers to be able to assist those ships in breaking up the ice before them, for clearing paths or even operating search and rescue missions is important for safety reasons.
	It's also important to project power in the north, right?
	You know, the sovereignty that, say, Denmark projects in Greenland is in part done by those sled teams that President Trump had mentioned, the Sirius Patrol, which is merely there to be there, right, to project power and to project sovereignty.
	And if you're not there, someone else will be.
	Scott is in Roseville, California on our line for Democrats.
	Good morning, Scott.
	Good morning, kind sir.
	And Mimi.
	Now, I think we're really missing out on a critical resource in Greenland.
	We're in I was IT Central California, and it can get pretty hot in the valley, Anheuser-Busch.
	Needless to say, our server on a hot day, if the power went out, would fry.
	So AC was a constant electrical requirement.
	But at those climes, and with all that water and what you mentioned earlier, the small nuclear plants that they already have set up up there, power would be available.
	They've got geothermal, and we could set up the data centers that everybody's so worried about for the new AI crunching computers.
	In that region, we'd have power next to free, almost natural, and automatic air conditioning.
	And that would be a huge investment that would embed us in Greenland.
	What do you think?
	So I just want to clarify that those small nuclear reactors aren't in Greenland anymore.
	There is nuclear waste up there, but there are no reactors up north.
	I have argued with government officials about the need to benefit from the cold weather, as you mentioned, to opening up more data centers in Alaska, where, yes, the cooling would be done by the planet, right?
	And you wouldn't have to spend all the electricity necessary to cool those or generate wasteful water plants and what have you to cool the servers.
	But we also have to recognize that people live there, right?
	And we can't simply just turn the North into an industrial zone for the hopes of chat bots.
	There are other ways of doing it.
	Iceland does it very well insofar as having data centers that are benefiting from geothermal and national power that comes from sustained wind or hydroelectric farms that are across the country.
	But in America, we have turned away from doing more green energy and are focused now on going back to the fossil fuel days.
	So I don't really have any hopes that the U.S. will benefit from using the Arctic for what it is, which is, like you noted, an ice box.
	What actually got you interested in the Arctic and doing this kind of reporting?
	I love the cold.
	I love the snow.
	I'm weak in for you then.
	Yeah, that's right.
	Yeah, I had an opportunity for a magazine assignment to go up to Svalbard, which is an archipelago about 800 miles north of mainland Norway to look into some of these security issues.
	I have a history reporting from conflict zones in the Middle East and Eastern Europe and wanted to see whether or not there were other places in the world that were being neglected but could potentially become future political battlefields or physical battlefields.
	And I fell in love with the place immediately.
	You know, just the tranquility of the region, the cleanliness of the region, the people who are there who were seeking a remove from the rest of the world.
	It was wonderful.
	And I remember coming home and looking at my wife and telling her, you know, how cool would it be if I got to write a book about the Arctic?
	And so I pursued home.
	You know, you mentioned earlier, well, I guess actually the president is the one who's really highlighting this idea that if the United States is not in Greenland specifically or has a stronger presence in Greenland, he's argued that both Russia and China will step in.
	How realistic do you think that threat is I don't think it's realistic at all?
	I mean, there's no intelligence to suggest that Russia and China are operating there any differently than they are in the rest of the world.
	And frankly, there are no boats or vessels that I saw or that anyone's seen of Russian or Chinese flags around Greenland.
	You know, the interest that China and Russia have in the Arctic is primarily situated along their already massive coastline with Russia's massive coastline with the Arctic.
	You know, it was the Kingdom of Denmark that even noted that the U.S. was more of a problem when it came to intelligence gathering and hybrid operations in Greenland than Russia and China.
	And it's very strange for those of us who've looked into it and all the security and Arctic researchers that I met over the last three, four years to see this happening when there's just no evidence to back it.
	And specifically to your question, the only interest that China and Russia would have currently and has shown a little bit here and there, but has been knocked down by the Kingdom of Denmark was to do business with Greenland.
	And they are open to it.
	They are open to exporting their fisheries.
	They're open to tourism.
	They'd like to be a sustainable economy.
	And if that means inviting Chinese tourists and Russian travelers, that's okay with them.
	But that's not necessarily a threat to American interests.
	Once again, if you have questions for Kenneth Rosen about the Arctic, our phone line for Democrats is 202-748-8000.
	For Republicans, 202-748-8001.
	And for independence, 202-748-8002.
	I'd like you to broaden out a bit into not just Greenland, but Russia and China's actions in the Arctic more broadly.
	I think people definitely can sort of imagine Russia's activity in the area, but not so much China.
	What is China up to in this area?
	So China was seeking to take some of its playbook from Africa, wherein it would offer junk loans and construction workers for building out infrastructure in the Arctic.
	They had suggested providing materials and expertise in building out the airport in Nuuk, which is the capital of Greenland.
	But the Kingdom of Denmark came in and said, no, we don't want Chinese operatives working in Greenland, and we'll supply the loan and the equipment necessary to build out the airport, in part because the Greenlanders want to open up their airport to international flights, which are now mostly coming from, or only coming from Copenhagen.
	And we're also seeing China open up research stations across the Arctic.
	They have one in Svalbard, in New Allison.
	They have one in Iceland.
	And the concern for Western nations is that Chinese research stations and ships can oftentimes, much like our own, be used for dual purposes.
	So whether that be surveillance or other quote-unquote nefarious activities, speaking of reports from intelligence communities, that's a concern for Western nations.
	But the U.S. and Western countries are doing the same thing.
	The U.S. just opened up a listening post in Tromso in northern Norway, specifically to look at what Russia and China are doing up in the north and to have a better view on how the situation was unfolding for their intelligence agencies and military operations.
	Vernon is in Springfield, Virginia, on our line for independence.
	Good morning, Vernon.
	Vernon, just make sure to turn down the volume on your TV and then go ahead with your question for Kenneth Rosen.
	Very nice to meet you.
	Okay.
	Hi, Kenneth.
	Very good program.
	I'm interested in knowing if you have any knowledge regarding ice islands.
	I was on one in July of 1970 called Fletcher's Ice Island.
	It has subsequently gone away and moved to destruction over Greenland in 1988.
	And I'm wondering whether or not that problem of access to the commercial areas is going to interfere with any ice island type operations by other countries.
	I'm not quite sure what you're referencing when you say an ice island.
	I'm assuming you mean part of the multi-year sea ice that's floating at the North Pole.
	And as I noted earlier, by 2030, scientists are projecting that by summers, they'll be completely ice-free.
	That there'll still be first-year sea ice or second-year sea ice in the winters, but the floating, gyrating ice sheet at the top of the globe will be all but gone during the summers.
	I'm sorry if that doesn't answer the question, but I'm having a hard time.
	Before we let Vernon go, Vernon, I just want to read a little bit to get everybody updated on this.
	So you're referring to Fletcher's Ice Island, which was an Air Force research facility, I believe, that melted eventually?
	It was a three-by-six mile block of ice that we had a research station on doing problems regarding ice and wind.
	And I was on it before it melted away.
	But it was discovered by Lieutenant Colonel Fletcher by the Air Force in 48, and we had station people there 20 at a time, but nobody could leave between June and October.
	And it melted away north of Greenland in 1988.
	And I just was wondering whether or not other countries currently had similar ice islands that were occupied now and how they would interfere with commercial trips through that area.
	I was able to find an article about this, Kenneth, that there was a data set that was actually rescued from that island.
	This is in EOS.org.
	This is from back in 2019, saying that measurements collected on a scientific drift station half a century ago were published for the first time this summer.
	This was in the summer of 2019, dramatically increasing the number of heat flow readings on the Arctic seafloor.
	The data hail from places so remote in the Arctic Ocean that researchers would typically need a submarine or icebreaker to reach them.
	Scientists took the measurements while living on a massive iceberg that had broken off from an ice sheet called an ice island between 1963 and 1973.
	So that's the Fletcher's ice island that Vernon served on.
	So thanks for sharing that story, Vernon.
	Go ahead, Kenneth.
	No, that's very cool.
	And thank you for your service, Vernon.
	Primarily now, a lot of the research is being done with moorings that are placed out at sea.
	And it's more accessible with the icebreakers that we do have today, the different ice-class vessels that can reach far and wide into the Arctic.
	Then again, we're also switching to more satellite-based research for understanding how the ice is changing and understanding weather patterns.
	So it certainly changed a little bit, but I don't think it'll change commercial access to the region.
	Peter is in Albany, New York on our line for Democrats.
	Good morning, Peter.
	Peter, go ahead.
	Yes.
	I'm curious to hear a little bit more background on the Arctic Council.
	You briefly mentioned that I think you said Russia is no longer participating or communicating with or through it.
	And more importantly, how is it that mainland China was able to obtain a seat on the Arctic Council when they don't have any Arctic shoreline?
	The United States has Arctic shoreline by virtue of Alaska.
	Denmark has Arctic shoreline by virtue of Greenland.
	And Iceland, although it isn't any of it at the Arctic Circle, it's proximal.
	But I'm curious about China.
	And I'll get off the line and allow you to answer that if you're interested.
	Sure.
	So the Arctic Council is the primary governing body of the High North.
	It's seated by the eight Arctic nations.
	You've got Finland, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, Canada, and the U.S., and Russia, of course.
	Now, since the invasion of Ukraine in 2022, Russia has largely been exiled from communicating with the Arctic nations at the Arctic Council.
	They have been participating through handwritten letters, I've been told, you know, shuttled about between different councils and different meetings.
	Greenland is now chairing the Arctic Council that switches every two years.
	So I find that to be of note, particularly because of the rhetoric now coming out of Washington.
	But the Arctic Council was formed in part to keep security operations, not military, but search and rescue operations and research collectives speaking with one another and working on solutions for the High North and partnerships in the High North.
	China, as you noted, is an observer state along with many others who are able to sit in on meetings and hear what the discussions are about but not participate.
Observer States' Insights 00:03:08
	The reason they are, along with many others, observer states, because they are keen to understand how the planet's changing and as it changes in the north, it changes there first before it affects the weather systems elsewhere.
	So whether or not the circulation of the Atlantic Ocean is going to change because more and more saltwater is being introduced as the melt ice is of their interest as well.
	They don't necessarily need a littoral coastline in order to hear about how the planet's changing and how that could affect them.
	So that's how they were able to become quote-unquote near Arctic states, though they are observer states.
	We have a question on X. If you were in charge of the Pentagon, what would be the first step you would take to secure the polar region against Russia and China's military aspirations?
	I would first look at some of the infrastructure that we currently have in the High North in Alaska and in Greenland and restructure it, build for the cold weather, build for the thawing permafrost to make sure that those buildings are secured and that the service members who are working there are taken care of.
	Starlink would be another thing that I would implement across the entire U.S. Coast Guard fleet in order to have them operating with communications that are reliant in the High North.
	And lastly, I think, you know, if we are wanting to position ourselves more defensively in Greenland, we certainly have the ability and the wherewithal to place short to medium range defensive missiles on our base in Greenland, as well as fifth-generation fighters like we have out in Alaska.
	You touched on this a bit earlier, but somebody was also asking on X how you got so interested and that they've never seen an expert on this region that wasn't in the Department of Defense.
	There haven't been that many pieces from a journalistic perspective on this.
	Over the last year, ever since President Trump took office again, there are more and more, you know, the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times have been putting out more and more pieces about trainings in the Arctic, about the need for sustained interest in the Arctic as it is changing.
	I found it interesting in part because I had focused on so many words in the Middle East, but knew that we were shifting gears as a nation to look at the Pacific.
	But I wasn't convinced that, you know, going from one region to just another region was a holistic approach to our national defense, that we needed a more robust and full view of the different threats that exist.
	And if the threat existed in the Cold War from the north, then I'm certain that it would exist today, to say nothing of 2022, 2023, when Chinese research balloons were able to float in across Alaska and into our High North region without detection until the last minute.
	So I feel like there were a lot of vulnerabilities that weren't being addressed.
	And when I was able to travel and see for myself some of those vulnerabilities, it worried me.
	Well, that is all the time that we have for today.
	Thank you so much, Kenneth Rosen, who's the author of the book, Polar War: Submarines, Spies, and the Struggle for Power in a Melting Arctic.
	Thank you very much for your time.
	Thank you.
	And thanks to everyone who called in for Washington Journal this morning.

Chapters

00:00:00 Second Fatal Shooting in Minnesota
00:02:18 Federal Agents Under Fire
00:06:37 Gun Rights Groups Respond
00:18:54 Pointless Violence
00:21:54 Concerns Over Misuse Of Force
00:24:30 Authorities Dispute Threat Claims
00:27:45 Veronica's Call for Change
00:42:45 Big Picture Concerns
00:52:00 Borders Open, ICE Fault
00:56:04 Cassius Marcellus Clay: Anti-Slavery Paradox
00:59:12 Senator's Call for Transparency
01:14:26 Michael's Warning On Inflation
01:27:06 Margie On The 2020 Election Stolen
01:38:59 Training Protesters
01:48:29 Americans Calling: Shock and Inconvenience
01:54:54 Open Forum: Political Topics
01:57:44 Democratic Process At Stake
02:13:25 Cold-Blooded Murder in Minneapolis
02:16:00 Unfiltered Democracy
02:19:01 Arctic Ambassadors and Warming Lands
02:34:10 Nuclear Waste and Arctic Concerns
02:42:53 Sea Ice Meltdown
02:57:43 Observer States' Insights