We have barely scratched the surface of the stories that Gary Walters tells in his book, White House Memories, 1970 -2007, Reflections of the Longest -Serving Chief Usher.
Mr. Walters and the White House Historical Association, thank you for your time.
Thank you for the opportunity to go address the president's house as a home.
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America's Book Club is brought to you by these television companies and is supported by the Ford Foundation.
From the nation's iconic libraries and institutions, America's Book Club takes you on a powerful journey of ideas, exploring the lives and inspiration of writers who have defined our nation.
As a young boy growing up in Baltimore, I went to my local library and was inspired to read as many books as I could.
Hopefully people will enjoy hearing from these authors, and hopefully they'll want to read more.
Now, from Camden Yards in Baltimore, Maryland, best -selling writer and children's book author, Baseball Hall of Famer and World Series champion, Cal Ripken Jr.
He's joined by civic leader and Baltimore Orioles owner, David Rubenstein.
Cal, I want to thank you very much for taking the time to let us have a conversation about your remarkable career as a writer as well as a baseball player.
And we're doing this from the clubhouse of the Baltimore Orioles at Camden Yards.
And I guess you were familiar with this clubhouse, right?
It brings back a few memories for sure.
They put a kitchen over there on that side because my locker was right in the corner.
And so I had a good view of everything that happened.
And there was a little door over there that I had a key to.
So I had my own private entrance into this clubhouse.
But, yeah, many great memories in here.
Mostly we just had the 30th anniversary of...
Oh, we're going to talk about that.
21, 31.
And there was a lot of memories from that right inside of here.
Ben McDonald had his camera, you know, on me like every step of the way.
And I said, you know, you might want to let me get dressed first and take that camera off of me.
Let's talk about three different things.
First, I want to talk about your writing career that people don't know as much about, probably, then your baseball career, and then we're going to talk about what you're doing since you retired from baseball.
Okay?
So, as a writer, you've written an autobiography about your career and a number of other books, I think a total of maybe 17 books.
So what propelled you to be a writer?
And when you were a boy, did you read a lot or did you ever think about writing books then?
Yeah.
I always had a love of books.
In the beginning, my mom used to read bedtime stories.
And then when I became a dad, I used to read bedtime stories to my kids.
And you would try to use an animated voice and kind of make it more interesting because I wanted my kids to see books as more like toys and something that they didn't want to open up and look at.
So I remember my daughter's favorite book was Three Billy Goats Gruff.
And many times I would play the voice of the troll.
And it was like, who's that trip -trapping across my bridge?
And his eye.
And so anyway, we had a fun time doing that.
And because of baseball, I got into writing books.
I mean, after the 95 season, there was this big need to learn more about me, and a biography came out of that.
And so I really enjoyed the process of going through that.
And then having influence with kids, I thought writing kids' books were a good way to broach certain subjects that might have been tough when you're kids or whatever else in the backdrop of a travel team, travel baseball team, because we all worry about things as kids.
And it was a way to communicate a good message through books.
So I just enjoyed the process.
You wrote novels for children as well, right?
I guess the first book was probably an autobiography because you wrote about your life as a baseball player.
We'll talk about that in a moment.
But when you sit down and write an autobiography, isn't that difficult?
You've got to think through everything in your life.
Was that complicated?
You wish you hadn't done it when you were halfway through it?
Maybe I was responding to the giant advance on the book that they were putting in front of me.
But it was a weird feeling talking about your life, your overall life, and when your life is, you know, your baseball career is not over.
And so the examination of your life, although it was kind of fun, but I've always been someone that wanted to look forward and not look back too much.
So that that was more difficult.
And I had those feelings.
But in the end, it was a good examination of your life.
And and to get some of those things down, you know, it made me feel like you had accomplished something.
You did something right in your life.
But really, quite frankly, I felt like I was so young.
I think 95 was 30, 35 years old.
And so I said, I hope this isn't just the end.
I hope they have a whole lot more going on in the future.
Well, let's talk about how you grew up to be a baseball player for a moment.
You grew up, where were you born?
Havity Grace, Maryland.
Actually, I grew up in Aberdeen, but there was only one hospital in the county, and that was in Havity Grace.
So, Havity Grace, Maryland.
Your father, Cal Ripken Sr., was a baseball player and a manager and a coach?
For the first 14 years of my life, he was a manager and coach in the minors.
He had a three or four year period as a catcher, and then he got hurt.
He got hit with two foul balls in his right arm, his throwing arm, and his arm went dead.
And so it's kind of interesting now, we're doing Tommy John surgeries and all kinds of stuff, but they didn't know what to do with that.
And he couldn't throw for a while, so they offered him a player manager position.
And then after his arm started to come back, he felt that he was away a little bit too much.
But he discovered that he was really good.
If I can't get to the big leagues, maybe I can help other people get to the big leagues.
And he was a very good teacher, very good manager.
Was really good with people.
Good developer of talent.
So when your father is a baseball manager, does that mean you're going to be a good baseball player because he's putting time into helping you?
Or were you not a natural athlete or were you a natural athlete?
I mean, I had some skills, yeah.
Ultimately.
Most people thought that your dad was in professional baseball and that he just drilled you and trained you and made you into the baseball player.
But the actual truth is not.
When he was a minor league manager in those days, he was the hitting coach, the pitching coach, the infield coach, the outfield coach, the catching coach.
He did all of that, you know, because we didn't have specialty coaches.
He was in charge of all of that.
So he was teaching and developing his minor league teams for the Orioles.
And I was a witness to that.
So many times I would learn about infield fundamentals because he was talking to Doug Desensei about what he was doing in the game.
So many times I would learn about infield fundamentals because he was talking to Doug Desensei about what he was doing in the game.
So I was around it a lot, and I benefited by hearing him teach other people, but he never really worked much with me.
So I was around it a lot, and I benefited by hearing him teach other people, but he never really worked much with me.
I learned, I always say dad was the encyclopedia of baseball, and all those players in the minor leagues were like little small books.
I learned, I always say dad was the encyclopedia of baseball, and all those players in the minor leagues were like little small books.
So I could go ask an outfielder how he catches a fly ball.
So I could go ask an outfielder how he catches a fly ball.
I could ask an infielder how he does this, a good base stealer.
I could ask an infielder how he does this, a good base stealer, I could ask him questions.
So if I asked a player something, for example, we talked about this earlier, and the outfielder said, you know, you should catch a fly ball like this.
And I'd go back and say, hey, I just talked to so -and -so today, and he said I should field a fly ball like this.
My dad said, no, that's not the right way to do it.
It's like this.
So I would X him off my list.
But when dad said, yes, that's exactly right, then I stayed with that guy, and I kept pestering him.
Very often, if your father's a baseball professional manager, by the time he comes home at night, He's tired of talking about baseball, so he talks about other things.
Did he talk to you about baseball all the time, or did he just basically want to talk about anything else?
Most of the time when he was home, they had to fill out reports and all that kind of stuff, so he had that responsibility.
So I'd always remember him pecking at the typewriter like this, an old Corona typewriter and duplicate copies and sending it off as a report.
But the great value of being his son was he allowed me to go to the ballpark when I was old enough and old enough meant eight.
And so then I'd go to the ballpark, and I had to wear a uniform to be on the field, and I'd go shag in the outfield, and I'd be around it all day.
So you'd pick up all kinds of things just by being around it.
When did you start playing Little League baseball?
At eight years old.
And were you a superstar then?
I made one out in the whole season.
So I hit like 975 or something like that.
975?
It might be a record, I don't know.
I was good from the beginning, yes.
8, 9, 10.
So you played in high school as well?
Yep.
And were you a superstar in high school?
I made the varsity as a freshman, and I remember I was 5'7", 128, because as a second baseman, I made it as a second baseman, not a shortstop, because I physically couldn't throw the ball consistently from shortstop to first base.
But I made it as a second baseman, I could field and throw, and I batted ninth.
And I led the team in sacrifice bunts, and I hit 128, I think.
But I remember I was 5'7", 128, because after I made the team, they said as a ritual, everybody gets weighed in, and they get the...
So I was the first one to jump up on the scale.
And they called out my height, 5'7", 128, and everybody burst out laughing.
So it was one of those initiation kind of things, which I hated them for.
You were a freshman, but when you became a senior, you must have been pretty good.
By the time I started to get some size on me, by junior year, scouts were looking at me.
They were looking at me as a pitcher.
I started pitching in high school as well.
You were a pitcher.
So I was drafted as a pitcher slash shortstop, yeah.
So I went out for my high school junior varsity and after the tryouts I thought I was pretty good and the manager or the coach came and said We'd like you to really stay with the team.
That's great, but we want you to be the manager.
I said, geez, I don't know if I'm really ready to be the manager.
I didn't realize that meant getting the equipment and bringing all the equipment back.
It wasn't playing, so I gave up.
But you didn't have that problem.
No.
Although the coach that was coaching the team tells a story.
I was with him a couple times.
Whereas I heard that this Ripken kid is coming up.
He's going to be the savior for our team and all that kind of stuff.
And I came up.
I didn't know where to be.
And I was shy and nervous and all that kind of stuff.
And I pulled on his coat, got his attention.
And it was a squeaky voice.
I said, Coach, where am I supposed to be?
And he said, well, what's your name?
And I told him my name.
And so he pointed me over to another field.
And he goes, that's my savior?
You were drafted in the Major Leagues in the second round.
Did you ever ask somebody why they didn't draft you in the first round?
No.
Were you disappointed to be drafted in the second round, or were you happy to be drafted in the second round?
I was happy.
The scouts tell you at the time, they get their cross -checkers in, and they're thinking about drafting you high in the draft.
I was told by many different people that I had a chance to go number one on their list as a pitcher.
And down deep inside, I really wanted to be a regular player, to be considered as that.
But every time they came to see me play, I pitched and I did really well.
I struck out 17 out of the 21 guys in my state championship game.
And so when the draft came around, you know, right there, I was thinking, okay, they told me I might be number one, I might not be number one.
But it wasn't like it is today where you see the draft or it's an event.
It just happened.
My mom comes to school at lunchtime and said that you've been drafted by the Orioles in the second round.
So that's how I found out.
So in those days you didn't think about being like an Otani person who pitches and plays full -time.
They didn't think of that in those days.
They didn't think of that.
I would have loved to do that but I was forced to make a choice.
And it was really interesting.
My dad played a diplomatic role.
In this, because he knew that the Orioles were interested in pitching and as an infielder.
And he, in the meeting with Hank Peters and Earl Weaver was in that meeting, he said, because Earl Weaver got a chance to see me play a little bit down at the Memorial Stadium, take batting practice, and he saw, you know, that I had some skills.
And so my dad said, you know, we've had a couple of people like this in our minor league system before.
And if we start them out as a pitcher and they don't make it, it's really hard to go back that way.
If we start him out as a regular player and he doesn't make it as a regular player, we're wrong about him going.
We can always have a chance to go back and we've had success turning them into pitchers.
So that gave me a chance to say, and it's ironic the way my career turned out, they asked me, Hank Peters said, what do you want to do, Cal?
And I said, well, a pitcher only gets to play one out of every five days.
I want to play every day.
So you went to the minor leagues, to the Orioles minor leagues, and you played as a third baseman or shortstop?
Shortstop.
Shortstop initially.
Okay.
And for most shortstops were short, actually, and very quick, and they weren't seen as big hitters.
You were 6 '4", and a pretty good hitter.
You were breaking the mold, weren't you?
For short stops?
As it turned out, I was.
I was 6 '2", 180, so I was built more like Mark Belanger at the time.
As a 17 -year -old, I got drafted as a 17 -year -old, went away and played.
Then I started getting my size.
I was a late bloomer.
In the height of my heyday, I was 6 '4", 3 quarters, and I played at 225.
So if you build a bridge from 180 to 225, I was roughly maybe putting 10 pounds on.
When I got called to the big leagues, I was probably 210.
Okay, so how do you do in the minor leagues?
Do people say this is the next greatest player of all time, or what?
Well, in my first year, I made 32 errors in 64 games, which is not good.
And I didn't hit a home run in any of the games for my 64 games.
So then I went to instructional league, started to get my feet on the ground a little bit, then went to A -ball, and I didn't hit a home run for the first half of that season.
So I went two years in the season and a half in pro ball, and I haven't hit a home run yet.
My first home run was in the 12th inning to break a 0 -0 tie, and I hit a home run to left field, and we ended up winning the game 1 -0.
But right after I hit the home run, the light transformer blew, and we were in the top of the 12th.
And if we couldn't get the game started again, the game would revert back to the inning before.
And so I would lose my home run.
So I was sitting there thinking, we got to play this game no matter what.
We got to put the cars out, turn the headlights on, whatever we have to do to get this game.
They fixed the transformer and we ended up winning the game.
But then after I hit that first home run, I started to get it.
And then I started hitting really well.
So I hit 300, and I think I hit five or six home runs in the next two weeks and got called to double A.
The Orioles brought you up, and you were in the minor leagues for two years or so, and then four years, four years in the minor leagues.
Okay, four years, and then what year did you— Let me clarify that.
Bluefield, 78.
Miami, 79.
Charlotte, 1980.
Rochester, New York, 81.
But I got called up halfway through.
Sorry about that.
When you're called up in the major leagues, was it a surprise?
I'll let you talk for a while.
Was it a surprise that you were called up?
And was your father in the Orioles organization at the time, but did he tell you in advance you're going to be called up?
Or was it a surprise?
And were you called out to be a shortstop, a third baseman?
And were you a starter as soon as you came up to the Orioles?
Where do I start with that?
I wasn't surprised because in '81, everything came together.
In 1980, it was in Charlotte.
The home runs and the power and the average and all that came up.
But they moved me to third base at that point.
And third base was easier for me at that time.
And then when I went to Rochester and started the season, I was leading the league in home runs and right up there in batting average and everything was going good.
And there was a strike looming over Major League Baseball.
So we had an injury to one of the players in the big leagues.
And there was rumor that I was going to get called up then.
But if I got called up then and then there was a strike or a work stoppage, then I'd be frozen.
I couldn't play.
So they didn't bring me up at that point.
So I continued to play.
Then there was a strike.
And then so that went on for a couple months.
And as soon as the strike was over, they expanded the roster and they called me up.
I was super excited.
You know, you go.
What year was that?
It was 1981.
A month before my 21st birthday.
The Orioles have what is probably the greatest third baseman in history, Brooks Robinson, certainly the greatest fielding third baseman, maybe the greatest third baseman.
Did you say, I don't want to be a third baseman?
He's already got the greatest one.
So when did they decide that you should not be playing third base?
Well, Earl Weaver made that decision after I got my feet on the ground in my rookie year in 82.
He wasn't happy with what was happening with our shortstops.
They had traded the third baseman away, Doug Desensei, in the offseason that particular year to make room for me.
And Earl wasn't happy.
So one day I came into the ballpark.
You know, if you walked in the clubhouse, you see maybe the lineups are up on the board.
I looked up on the board, and there was a six next to my name instead of a five.
So five means third, six means shortstop.
And I thought Earl just made a mistake.
He put the wrong number down because nobody told me anything about going to shortstop.
So he calls me into his office and said, I'm going to play you at shortstop tonight.
And he said, so here's what I want you to do.
He said, if the ball's hit to you, I want you to catch it.
And he goes, after you catch it, I want you to get a good grip on it and then make a good throw to first base.
If he's safe, he's still only on first base.
And I'm going, that's what I need to do?
But it was his way of saying, don't try to do more than you can.
If you complicate it by throwing the ball away, then you've got a guy on second base, that kind of thing.
And that's how he approached it.
And when I went to shortstop, I looked to Rich Dower, who was an 8 or 9 -year veteran at the time, second baseman.
I go, you're going to call the steal coverages and all the plays?
And he goes, no, that's you.
And so there was a lot of responsibility threw on me right away, and I liked that.
And so I started to take charge, and it worked out really well.
But you were voted the American League Rookie of the Year, right?
So did that surprise you?
Of all the rookies, you were the number one?
You know, in the first month of the season, I mean, I was three for five opening day with a home run and a double, and we won big on opening day.
And so you thought that you'd arrived.
And then I was four from an X63.
So that makes it, yeah, seven for 68 is just a little over 100, your batting average.
And Earl Weaver kept telling me, I'm not going to send you down, I'm not going to send you down, I'm not going to send you down.
And he stuck with me.
And so maybe I saw an empathetic side of Earl Weaver that most people didn't.
He kind of put your arm around you and said, it's going to be okay.
And sure enough, it was okay.
And then I caught fire and I put up big numbers.
And there was two other rookies that year, both from Minnesota, Ken Herbick and Gary Gaietti, that had 27 home runs.
And Ken Herbick made the all -star team in his rookie year, which I didn't.
He ended up hitting 300, but I ended up having more home runs and more RBIs than they did, so I got the Rookie of the Year.
Let's talk about your total career.
You played how many years in the Major League?
21?
21, yeah.
21 years.
And 19 of those years, you were an All -Star.
All -Star, 19 years.
That's a lot.
And if you just forget the streak for a moment, we'll talk about that.
Just look at your statistics over 21 years.
You were voted the Major League, the American League, Most Valuable Player twice.
19 times you're on the All -Star team.
You hit 3 ,184 hits, which is a lot of hits.
And home runs, I think about 431 home runs.
Pretty good.
And you are a Golden Glove winner twice.
So if you had never had the streak, you would have been in the Hall of Fame just for those statistics, almost certainly, right?
I would say, you don't have to agree, but I would have voted for myself.
But then you have the streak.
The whole streak, for those who aren't baseball fans, there was a famous baseball player named Wally Pipp.
Wally Pipp was the first baseman for the New York Yankees.
He didn't feel well that one day.
He decided to step down and not play one day.
And they substituted him with a guy named Lou Gehrig.
And Lou Gehrig then played 2 ,130 games in a row and Wally Pipp never was heard from again.
Your father used to tell you that.
That you should always not, if you're not feeling well, don't sit down, play the game.
So, you broke that record.
People thought the unbreakable record in baseball was Lou Gehrig's 2 ,130 games in a row without missing a game.
You, in 1995, you broke the record, 2,130 games you had played.
Then when the 2,130 first game was coming, it was a national event.
And the president of the United States, Bill Clinton, came to the stadium.
It was televised nationally.
And then what was it like?
The game, a game is official after four and a half innings.
So after four and a half innings, you have broken the record you played.
So what was it like when the fans are cheering?
Hearing everybody telling you this is the greatest thing that's ever happened in baseball.
What was it like emotionally to kind of be in the field then?
It's one of those experiences that you have in life where you don't think it's happening to you.
Like, you're watching it.
From watching yourself do it.
You mentioned Bill Clinton.
Bill Clinton came to 2130 and 2131.
He was in this clubhouse right here.
Al Gore was there.
It was a very ceremonial sort of the closest thing that we had was like opening day or maybe the World Series atmosphere that is there.
it was all right here and uh and so once the game became official i didn't know about two weeks before they started having the numbers on the warehouse And when the game became official, then that's when they dropped the banner.
And they started playing John Tesh's music, whatever else, and I kept thinking, what's going on?
And then I realized what was happening.
And it started to build the emotion up to that last drop on the thing.
So when it happened officially, four and a half innings, we were leading in the game.
So that their team had a chance to bat five times.
And when I came, you know everybody congratulated you and then there was a standing ovation or clapping for like 21, 22 straight minutes and then in the meantime you're kind of saying thank you to everyone and then going back in and then still clapping.
You feel like you got to be pushed out there for another curtain.
Push you onto the field, then you can say yes again, and I was trying to communicate, was you know?
Hey, I love this and I'll celebrate all you want after the game's over.
It's not kind of fair to the other guys to keep playing, but they kept clapping.
And then Bobby Bowe and Rafael Palmeiro, when I came out one of the times, they pushed me down the line.
And Rafael said, you're going to have to take a lap around this ballpark to get the game started again.
And I went, I'm not doing that.
And then when I went down there to do it, then the celebration turned almost 50 ,000 strong to one -on -one.
And so you could shake everyone's hands as you went down.
And it became really meaningful.
So I was really worried about getting the game started.
But once I started-- You know, a little bit down the line, shaking people's hands and looking at them.
You know, I said, I could care less if we ever finish this game again.
Okay, so now most people would say if you broke the record of Lou Gehrig, the unbreakable record, 2 ,131 games, you can call it a day.
You went and played another couple years without missing a game.
You went ultimately 2 ,632 games.
2 ,632 games, 17 years without missing a game.
And many of those years, you didn't miss an inning.
So how did you do that when today players, if they get an ingrown toenail or something, they don't play?
I mean, how did you do that?
Didn't you have any injuries?
Didn't you break anything?
Yeah, all of that.
I played through a herniated disc after the record was broken.
But I guess you wanted to prove that it wasn't about the record.
I never intended to break the record.
I mean, if you gave me a wish, I would say I want more hits than Pete Rose.
I want more homers than Hank Aaron.
You know, I never thought about, you know, being the guy that's known for just grinding away.
It was an honor to consider to be an everyday player.
An everyday player at that time was considered everyday.
And I learned the lesson in my first year.
We didn't make the playoffs by one game.
We lost the last game of the season to Milwaukee.
And we got off to a slow start, and then we came on strong, and we just couldn't quite get there.
It was a really exciting series in Memorial Stadium.
And we watched the Milwaukee Brewers celebrate.
They ultimately went on to the World Series in that year.
And all of us kind of thought, you know, where could we have made up that one game?
Where could we have made up that one game?
So it tells you the importance of a game in April or a game in May.
You know, you never know.
And so when you're trying to meet the challenges each and every day, you want to put yourself out there to meet this challenge.
And that was my approach.
I laugh when you go back to Wally Pipp.
When I was in the minor leagues and I was struggling, And I was feeling a little sorry for myself.
I was beat up a little bit.
I got hit with a pitch in the back of my hand.
I was just down.
And I called my dad.
And I said, I feel like I'm really banged up.
Maybe I could use three or four days off to get healthy again and get in the lineup and play.
And then maybe have a new start.
And my dad said, well, you could take a day off.
You could do that.
He said, but what's going to happen when the guy that replaces you gets three hits tonight?
What do you think the manager's going to do tomorrow?
And he said he's going to play that guy.
And he said, what happens if he gets a couple more hits that next day or whatever else?
And I go, yeah, that could happen.
He said, don't let that guy get three hits.
So your father mentioned Wally Pipp?
Yeah.
I mean, that was the logic of Wally Pipp.
Let me ask you, you played all those consecutive games 17 years in a row, but you could have Well, I mean, it wasn't, again, And to me, it wasn't about the record.
It wasn't about, you know, when I was playing early, you know, what you're referring to is that the first part of that streak, the first five years I played every inning of every game.
And so the logic there was when you're learning how to play and you're getting better each year and you're kind of figuring out, you know, how do you hit and the matchups, when you're swinging well, you don't want to come out of a lopsided game.
You don't want to come out of a game, you want to get that last at bat, you want to keep it going for tomorrow.
And if you weren't swinging the bat really well and you want to figure out some of those games that are lopsided, you can actually try something in the game that's going to help you tomorrow.
So I always had that theory that there was no real benefit from coming out for a few innings.
This year, the Orioles celebrated the 30th anniversary of the streak.
What was it like going out on the Camden Yards?
And you had some of the players with whom you had played and some of the ones who had pushed you out of the dugout 30 years earlier.
What was it like to relive that 30 years later?
So I've never been someone for reunions and that sort of thing.
You know, as I said earlier, I was thinking of looking forward.
And so when 30 -year anniversary comes up, you know, it's a long time.
It's a big deal.
But nothing else has been accomplished.
It's like you accomplished that 30 years ago.
And I was kind of thinking.
Okay.
And I wasn't crazy about the concept.
The Orioles did such a good job there.
And I think that I came to understand that it's okay to look back.
And especially, it's not necessarily the event itself.
Even though we celebrated the event, it was like, who do you have those experiences with?
so it turned out the people so the people when uh and i really wasn't close to rafael pomero His locker was over there.
You know, we played together for a while.
Bobby Bowe was a little bit more, we were more friends.
But in that moment, I really liked seeing Rafael Palmeiro come back.
And Bobby Bowe.
And it kind of put us back in that spot.
In that moment.
We staged at the fifth inning or four and a half or whatever else we staged that we would go out there and they kind of gave me the push down the line just to remember that.
And so it made me realize it's okay to look back.
It's okay to remember.
But the important part about it is it's not like you're just celebrating something you did.
It's something you experienced with other people.
This time, though, you didn't run around.
No.
It drove you around.
No, I was particularly sensitive to the guys that are playing now.
The Dodgers that night, if you remember, Yamamoto had a no -hitter with two outs in the eighth.
It was good to remember, but I didn't want to impact the game negatively in that sort of way.
And I don't know if I could have ran around the stadium or not.
So today, players who have your kind of statistics are paid a lot of money.
The most famous one is probably Ohtani.
He's got a $700 million contract, something like that.
And today, you would probably, with your statistics, maybe get a billion -dollar contract.
So do you ever look back and say, well, I maybe should have played in the free agency world?
You never went into free agency.
You stayed with the Orioles your entire career.
Have you ever thought the world has changed so much that if you had gone to free agency, you would have made a lot more money?
Any regrets about staying with the Orioles your entire career and not making as much money as Otani and the others?
No, I mean, I always had a feel.
You know, Brooks Robinson was my hero, and I think the most he ever made in a year was like $100 ,000.
My first year in the big leagues, I made $40 ,000.
And so I got a $100 ,000 bonus for being Rookie of the Year, which was nice.
But you hear as the business side of baseball got up and the salaries continued to climb, you'd hear players of past would say, you know, this guy's making that.
He couldn't do half of what I could do.
You know, and there was a little bit of resentment.
I never wanted to be that way because I always thought it was relative to your time frame.
And the business side is the business side.
It's more importantly is what you focus on, what you do on the field.
If you want to measure yourself against past players, that's the place to measure it, but not necessarily in the salary.
were playing, who was the greatest?
Who was the greatest baseball player you ever played against or you ever saw?
The guy that comes to mind really quickly is Ken Griffey Jr.
I played against his dad, and then I played against him for a while.
Ken Griffey Jr. had this smile on his face, and he enjoyed every aspect of what he did, and there wasn't anything on the baseball field that I didn't think he could do.
I mean, he could run, he could throw.
He covered out the center field.
He could hit.
He could hit with clutch.
He hit with power.
You didn't want to see him anywhere near the lineup.
You didn't want to see him in a matchup when you had the game on the line, for sure.
So I just thought that he was most physically blessed.
And I've got to know him better now in our post -playing career.
We go to the Hall of Fame each year.
Everybody comes back to the Hall of Fame to celebrate the new inductees.
He's one of my favorite people to sit down and talk to.
He has a quiet confidence.
He doesn't have this giant ego that said, I'm the best player.
He came to the 30th anniversary celebration to honor you.
Who was the toughest pitcher you ever faced?
I think all the number ones were tough.
Randy's, Randy, Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nolan Ryan, you know, but the one guy that gave me sort of fits in the beginning was Goose Gossage.
Goose Gossage was the closer for the Yankees.
At that time, you know, the radar guns were slower and all that kind of stuff.
And he was hitting 100 and 100 plus on our slow radar guns.
and it looked like he didn't know where the ball was going sometimes, and he looked like he didn't care.
And so if you got, and I remember watching the World Series the year before I faced him, and he ended up hitting Ron Say, the Dodgers third baseman in the head, and they took Ron Say off the field, and it looked like, you know, he was sort of crazy, and he kind of was happy he did it.
So when I batted against him for the first time, I couldn't take that image out of my mind.
So I kept stepping in the bucket.
You know, you can't hit when you think you might get hit.
You've got to put that totally out of your mind.
But I kept thinking, is it coming at me?
No.
Is it coming at me?
No.
And I wasn't hitting very well against him, and I was intimidated.
And I was trying to figure out, I've got to fix this.
And one of our players was friends with him, and he called over to the clubhouse and said, hey, why don't we go grab some ribs afterwards?
I'll take you to this place called The Stable in Cockeysville.
And I overheard the conversation.
So when I was driving home that night, I went past the stable and I looked over and I went, I don't know what I'm going to do, but I pulled in and I walked in and my teammate and Goose was sitting, you know, in the corner.
corner and they saw me coming in and they called me over.
So I ended up drinking beer with him and eating ribs with him and getting to know him.
And you find out he's a good guy.
It totally took the intimidation factor away.
So I think I was four for my next five off of him.
In baseball, you can get into the Hall of Fame five years after you retire.
The only exception, I think, was maybe Sandy Koufax.
Maybe he was shorter than that.
But five years, typically.
And so you got elected to the Hall of Fame, no surprise.
But one person, one person did not vote for you.
Who was that person who didn't think you were eligible or deserved to be in the Hall of Fame?
Have you ever figured that out?
No.
I thought you were going to say, did you put a contract out on them?
I thought you were leading me in a different direction.
I think in that particular year when I was voted in at the time I had the highest percentage of votes going into the Hall of Fame and so I could hold on to that for a year and evidently I think there was four or five people on the ballot out of 400 or some writers that write on it that didn't fill out they filled out a blank ballot in protest of like the steroid era.
And I'm thinking, Tony Gwynn and me are going in to the Hall of Fame.
Where does steroids come into the mix on that?
And so when you didn't vote at all, then it was considered a negative vote against you.
So but it doesn't that didn't matter to me.
I mean, I don't necessarily understand first ballot Hall of Famers or like you're on the ballot for a while.
And now you now you get put on like eight years later and you haven't done anything.
You haven't done anything more than you did before.
You're either a Hall of Famer or you're not.
Well, you mentioned steroids.
In the era you played, there were some players who were accused of using steroids.
Some admitted, some have not.
Nobody ever said you did anything improper at all.
But did you realize that some people you were playing against might be using some things that might enhance their ability to play?
And how did you avoid the temptation to ever try that?
Well, I think, you know, in hindsight, you know, after some of the stories come out, you can kind of go back in your mind and think, oh, yeah, I should have picked up on that.
There were a few people, I think, that were more obvious.
And you thought, you know, how do you make those kind of gains in the offseason?
You know, I'm working out like crazy and I'm not making those gains.
So I could say I was suspicious, but you never really know.
And I think the people that were in on it, you can go look back and now that people have admitted it, you can kind of look at who by association might have been involved too.
But at the time, I didn't think much about it and it was never a temptation for me.
The challenge of being a professional athlete is that your career as a professional athlete is generally over in your mid to late 30s, maybe early 40s in some cases.
But, you know, in my profession or the business world, you're just getting started really in your late 30s, early 40s or so forth.
So when you're retiring, you're retiring at what age did you retire at?
41.
41.
All right.
41, you have to start your whole life over again.
What do you decide to do?
You're not a professional baseball player.
Do you want to be an announcer, a manager, a coach?
What did you want to do?
I didn't really have any aspirations of being an announcer.
I thought about it for a second, staying in.
Baseball, you know, in some capacity, whether you're a coach or whether you aspire to be a manager in some way, or even in the front office.
But because I grew up in baseball, where my dad was in professional baseball and in the minor leagues, he was actually gone more than you are in the big leagues.
and I thought about my kids were 8 and 12 when I retired, and I kept thinking the grind of the baseball season takes you away all the time.
You know, I want to be there for their, you know, as I get them through high school, you know, and maybe I'll think of something.
So I was there.
I packed lunches, took them to school.
I did all kinds of stuff.
Packed lunches.
You're the Hall of Famer.
You're packing lunches.
I was pretty good at it, too.
But, you know, I enjoyed the ride to and from school, picking them up.
It's a special time you get to spend.
And maybe it was because when I was a kid, we had four of us, four kids in a family, my sister and then me and then two brothers, trying to fight for time with your dad, you know, individual time with your dad.
I learned really early.
My dad did these clinics every Saturday morning.
And he would come to me like seven o'clock in the morning and tap me on my knee and say, do you want to go with dad today?
And I was thinking, clinics are kind of boring and I got to sit down and listen to people talk all that time.
I really don't want to go, but I knew that my other siblings would not go.
So it was my chance to go.
So I always got up and it was 20, the 20 minutes in the car with him that you had time with him.
And it was 20 minutes home that mattered the most.
So that's how I looked at it with my kids is I cherished those times and they were valuable to me.
And I wanted to do that with my kids.
So I knew that maybe my opportunities to stay in baseball.
And I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do that with my kids and I wanted to do So we did start a kids business.
We did go into the minor league baseball business.
So I learned business and that was very gratifying to do that.
You bought minor league teams and youth baseball.
Can you explain what you did in youth baseball?
Yeah, we first thought, Billy and I, this was a little bit more philanthropic as a start, but we realized that we didn't have enough money to keep doing that.
It had to actually make business sense.
But we knew we had the encyclopedia of baseball as a dad.
And we said most kids don't have that.
So we wanted to actually provide instruction, camps, and those sorts of things, and then provide a tournament environment.
And the tournament environment We knew what it felt like to play in the big leagues in Fenway Park and Yankee Stadium and the different venues really enhanced your experience as a baseball player.
So we wanted to bring that down to the level of kids.
So we had our version of Fenway Park and Yankee Stadium and Wrigley Field so they could enjoy the experience of playing and then learn how to do that.
Ultimately, we built a really good tournament business and travel teams and all that camp came through.
We built other complexes and those sorts of things.
And some of the camping, the camp or the instructional part, although we were most excited about that part, kind of fell off to the wayside because everybody had their own personal coaches and they all learned how to do it.
And a lot of the kids, you know, which was a compliment to Billy and me, when we had these camps, they would send their kids to camp, you know, and we were we were all about teaching baseball.
And so but you had all kinds of different talents of baseball.
Some kids didn't like baseball at all, but the parents sent them to us, you know, because they trusted us and they wanted to have experience, other things.
So we had to try to divide the kids up into different groups and all that kind of stuff to teach them.
And so you mentioned your brother, Billy, for a while.
I should have mentioned, when you were a shortstop for the Orioles for a number of years, maybe five or six, he was the second baseman.
It's very unusual.
I don't know if you've ever been a brother combination, shortstop and second baseman.
What was it like playing with your brother in the major leagues?
It was awesome.
I don't know if you saw some of the memorabilia items on the table.
I have some of my gloves over there.
I picked one glove out of a box and on the outside of it said, it was 1987, it said the Glissa glove that I used when Billy got called to the big leagues.
And so, dad was the manager.
He was only manager for a brief period of time.
But during that time, he gets called to the big leagues.
So I think the first time in baseball history that dad managed his two sons in the big leagues.
And the cool part about it was, Billy was four years younger than me, so we never played in any level of growing up.
I was out of high school by the time he got to high school.
And so, you know, he knows baseball really well.
It was almost like we were so in sync right from the get -go about how to turn double plays.
We turned the toughest double plays.
I knew exactly where he wanted it on a double play.
He knew where I wanted it, and he had an expression that, like, I wanted it right here, like to my right hip, so I could make a shorter pivot and get a good point of throw.
And when he'd do that in the game, he'd give it to me right there, and I'd turn the double play.
And he said, I put it right in your holster, didn't I?
But it was fun.
For an example, too, it was really critical to know what pitch is being called, because you have a guy on first base, and he might steal or might be a hit and run, and you've got to make decisions every pitch on who covers.
And so I looked over at him one time because I got blocked out, you know, the bat, the guys, the hitter was putting the bat in front of the signal and I couldn't see it.
And it was a really important time.
And I kind of panicked.
I go, I didn't see it.
And then Billy instinctively just gave me coverage the same the same way I would give coverage back.
And, you know, get that sort of instinct very often.
So I played with him for five straight years.
So a low point of your baseball career may have been when your father was the manager.
And I think the Orioles lost eight games in a row or something like that in the beginning of the season.
And the Orioles fired him as the manager.
You're the star player.
What was that like?
I always thought Dad was the company guy.
He was loyal in the minor leagues to help develop players to get to the big leagues.
Then came to the big leagues as a coach.
And he was Earl Weaver's right -handed guy.
And then when Earl retired in 82, I thought it was natural that dad would step in and be the manager at that point.
We didn't see it.
Everybody didn't see it that way.
So we brought another manager in, Joe Altabelli, for that time.
We win the World Series under Joe.
Joe managed for a couple more years.
And then we were in kind of a rebuilding mode.
So then they decided that they would give Dad a chance.
And so I don't think we told anybody we were in a rebuilding mode.
the expectations were still for us to be good and so when we got off to that bad start we were 0-6 and they fired dad and then frank came down frank robinson came down from the front office and we lost 15 more in a row So it was like 0 -21 to start the season.
Not a good season.
The most miserable time that you ever want to have but in some weird way I'm thankful that I went through that.
Because when you go through something like that, you've got to figure out who you are, how you can help, how you can be a better teammate to everyone else.
And once you get through something like that and come out positive on the other side, then any other thing that happens in your life, it's easier for you to deal with.
But it was hard.
I was a free agent at the end of that year, too.
And the most troubling part about that was they thought that they wouldn't be able to sign me, that I was gone.
And if I had to make a decision in the first month of that, I would have said, you know, the Orioles have changed.
I'm going to go someplace else.
But there were trade rumors all the time about me.
I was going to go to Boston.
I was going to go to New York.
I was going to get traded to L .A. And it dawned on me that as I came to the ballpark, I could get called into that manager's office and they could tell me that you're traded and you have to go.
You had no control over that.
And I didn't like that at all.
So later in the summer, they came back to me and said, we'd like to rebuild with you, around you.
And so I signed a longer -term contract at that point.
But there were two things that I really needed out of that.
One was I wanted an absolute no -trade clause because I didn't like that feeling.
And they said, we don't do that.
And I go, well, I have to have it.
And they said, OK, we'll do it.
And the second one was, look, I play basketball in the offseason and I want you to assure me that if I get hurt playing basketball, it would be the same as getting hurt playing baseball.
And and I wouldn't it wouldn't affect my contract at all.
And they started to give me a little pushback on that.
And I go I go, that's my routine in the offseason.
And I haven't missed a game to that point.
So then they said, OK, you can play basketball.
So now you are an investor in the Orioles.
You are an advisor to the Orioles and you go to spring training and every game almost you're right behind home plate watching the game.
So after all these years you don't get tired of baseball?
No, I mean, you know, in my life, maybe I'll give context to my life, right before COVID I had a bout with prostate cancer.
And then I got the prostate out and everything's fine, so don't worry.
I'm the lucky ones that found it early.
But that gives you a thought in your life.
How do you want to spend the moments in your life and who you want to spend them with and what you want to do.
So I kind of made a decision where I sold our kids' business, the majority interest in our kids' business.
I sold my last minor league team last year.
And you're thinking, okay, now you're going to have the freedom to do things that you want to do.
But this baseball thing has kind of sucked me back in and being around the guys or whatever else and being in this position I'm glad to help in any way I can and I had a really good time taking part in interviewing the managers and helping Mike make the decision on who to hire.
I'm enjoying that and it seems like I'm getting pulled back in more and more so it's in your blood and it kind of makes you talking to Gunner or Holiday or Couser and those guys and just giving you some of the experience giving them some of the experience and some of the advice that you can it's very gratifying and then watch them develop as players it makes you feel good so I'm getting pulled back in.
So do you watch baseball a lot on television now?
Do you watch the World Series?
Do you think baseball is more exciting than it was 10, 15, 20 years ago?
Or do you think it's not as exciting?
I don't want to sound like an old player that said it was better when I played than it is now.
It's a little bit different game.
I'd like to see some of the small ball things, some of the finer points of the game come back because I think that's an important part of winning one -run games and winning in the playoffs.
I think executing at that sort of level is good.
I don't know.
I can't remember seeing a hit -and -run play.
You know, it used to be a hit and run was a good valuable tool against, you know, some of the top line pitching because you can't put a big inning together a lot of times against those guys because they're not going to give up two or three hits in a row.
So you have to figure out a way, and the hit and run's kind of gone away.
The strikeout or whatever else I can't understand.
You know, you keep your A swing alive with two strikes and then you get fooled radically on different pitches and you strike out.
But the way it's looked at now is that's just an out.
And I'm thinking, give yourself a chance.
Put it in ball and play.
Get somebody in from third with less than two out by putting the ball in play.
Those things add up.
So I mean, I think I'd like to see a little bit more of that.
And I think you are.
I mean, Toronto had really good success this year.
They had the least strikeouts as a team in the American League.
And by putting the ball in play and then running the bases and doing that, it gave them more weapons when the pitchers were really good.
Baseball's changed rules since you played.
They have a pitching clock now.
Do you think that's a plus or a minus, or you don't know?
Well, I mean, I had a conversation with the commissioner when they were deciding to do it, and I said, that's the dumbest thing I ever heard.
And I didn't like the concept of actually putting a clock out there.
Now, if you go back, Earl Weaver said baseball doesn't have a clock.
You know, you got to get the last out.
You got to get the last out of the game somehow to win the ball game.
So you can't, you can't, you know, stall and like in basketball, you, Carolina, North Carolina had the four corners when they had a game one, then there was no shot clock.
They could just dribble the ball all around.
And then.
forced the game to be won.
Baseball wasn't like that.
So I couldn't picture a clock in baseball.
Then I had to tell the commissioner after the first year, I said, you know, I was totally wrong because when you put a clock in, they had a rule that you had to throw a pitch by 15 seconds anyway, but the umpires couldn't enforce that because they didn't have a mechanism to do it.
So the league really quickly adapted to this concept.
And now people get in the batter's box, the pitcher throws the pitch and the game gets moving and it's a much more enjoyable game to watch.
Harold Reynolds from MLB Network said he went back to the '83 World Series that I was in and he put a stopwatch on each of the hitters when they came to the plate and wanted to see what the pace of the play is.
And we played to the pace of the game now and we just did it naturally.
And it's kind of funny.
I was trying to figure out, why is that?
Why has this downtime been stretched?
And towards the end of my career, walk -up music became popular.
So each player, they came down.
Somebody came down from the press box and said, what song do you want me to play when you come to the plate?
And I go, I don't want any song.
But there was a lot of players that liked that.
So they would pick their song.
And I remember one or two times sitting out in the defense on an away game.
And seeing the guy in the on -deck circle, he's still staying in the on -deck circle, not approaching home plate yet, and I'm looking up, and then he looks up at the press box like he's like going, you know, and then they play a song, and then he makes his move up to home plate, says hello to the catcher, does all that kind of swing, swing, swing, puts his gloves on like this, and then gets back in the box.
I'm going, the collection of the walk-up music might be one of the culprits.
It might be I'm making an entrance to my four at-bats and that downtime might be wasted.
But now they still have walk -up music and they still play it, but now they get up there and get in the box.
So it's an incredible career, book writing career, playing career, now post -playing.
Any regrets in your career?
You know, sometimes I feel sorry for myself.
When you talk to Derek Jeter or Chipper Jones and those guys, because you realize that Derek Jeter, a bad year for Jeter, was losing in the first round of the playoffs.
And so they didn't experience, like Chipper Jones, the first 14 years of his career, they won the pennant for 14 straight years.
Now, they didn't end up winning, I think they won one World Series, but the opportunity to play in the postseason is something that I absolutely loved.
And I got to do it in '96 and '97.
We were this close to being in the World Series on both of those times.
But that's what you play the game for, is you play the game to get to that point and then compete in that environment.
And so I didn't get to do it as much as I want to.
So if I would rewrite my story a little bit, I'd say, I want to be in the playoffs more.
I want to get a chance to win that World Series.
You won the World Series.
I won it in my second year.
And then you thought that that would happen again.
And it's hard.
a couple times, but that's why you play the game.
I wish that I could do that.
Incredible career.
Thank you very much for being a great supporter of the Orioles and being a great role model for people who care about baseball and care about professional athletes and care about people being decent who are role models.
Thank you.
My pleasure.
After the interview, Cal Ripken Jr. and David Rubenstein toured the Orioles' Camden Yard Stadium and viewed memorabilia from Ripken's legendary career.
None of these marks were mine.
Oh, okay.
None of those.
Oh, wow.
Wow, looks different.
I told you the story about my seats, didn't I?
Yeah, but you have the best seats, right?
My dad, they were manager seats in Memorial Stadium.
They fired dad after six games.
And the ticket manager came back and said, can you get the tickets back from your dad?
And I go, no, but I've been asking you to buy tickets for some time now.
How about I buy those seats?
And they let you do that?
They let them buy them.
So I've been a season ticket holder since 1988.
This is the batting cage.
this is where you spend the majority of your time so this is much brighter than the days that I was in here Well, they need all the help I guess they can get, so, well.
Nothing like a big league ball.
You ever want to go out and have a pitch?
No.
I've been in there a couple times.
They have a couple pitchers that can throw the ball at three and four miles an hour, which is my speed.
This was, I think, the home run bat in the '91 All -Star game.
I think I can take this one out.
And so sometimes I would just put a piece of tape on it and then write on it, which looks like I did.
And it's lasted all these years.
It's broken.
And I didn't break it on the home run in the All-Star game.
It was the bat that I was using.
And this particular year might have been my best offensive year.
I was hitting .349 at the break.
And I took this bat in.
The bat probably lasted two weeks or so.
I was really hot.
And so I broke it sometime after the All-Star game.
You have a lot of nicks in it.
Does that bother you, having all these nicks?
You're very observant.
This comes from hitting the cleats on the bottom of my shoe.
Oh, oh, oh, I see.
And many times, the deeper ones represented, I didn't agree with the umpire.
Oh, okay.
And it was my way of taking some frustration out on the bat.
But when you see a bat with this many marks, you know it had a pretty good lifespan.
It was probably at least two weeks.
See more with Cal Ripken Jr. at the Orioles' Kempton Yard Stadium at c-span.org slash ABC and C-SPAN's YouTube page.
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