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unidentified
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Engage in inclusive dialogue in respect of human rights and rule of law. | |
| Meanwhile, Russia has called for a full meeting of the United Nations Security Council to look into the matter. | ||
| The Russian Foreign Ministry released a statement that reads: The U.S. committed an act of armed aggression against Venezuela, which gives rise to deep concern and warrants condemnation. | ||
| The pretexts used to justify these actions are untenable. | ||
| Russia reaffirms its solidarity with the Venezuelan people. | ||
| And now we'll show you the President's news conference in about 40 minutes, actually. | ||
| First, Elise Labbitt, global affairs journalist and cosmopolitics substack newsletter author, joined us on Washington Journal this morning to discuss the situation in Venezuela following American strikes and the capture of President Nicolas Maduro. | ||
| By Zoom is Elise Labbitt. | ||
| She is the Substack founder and global affairs journalist for Cosmopolitics. | ||
| She is also a professor at the American University School of International Service. | ||
| Elise, thank you for joining us. | ||
| Good to be with you. | ||
| And our guests will be taking your calls. | ||
| So please do stay on the line with us. | ||
| If you've already called in, if you'd like to talk to our guest, Elise Labbitt, if you could just remind us about your substack called Cosmopolitics and your background in international affairs. | ||
| Well, cosmopolitics is, as you said, a substack which has written pieces and a podcast. | ||
| And it's really the intersection of politics and global affairs and geopolitics and the foreign policy and the people that are involved in it. | ||
| So it's mostly about international affairs, but also how domestic politics and the politics of various countries come into play. | ||
| And I am the former CNN global affairs correspondent. | ||
| I covered this State Department for about 20 years for CNN. | ||
| I covered seven secretaries of state and five administrations. | ||
| And so I have a long history on global affairs. | ||
| So thinking about this raid that happened overnight in Venezuela, what questions remain for you as far as how that played out and the future of Venezuela and President Maduro? | ||
| Well, in terms of how it played out, I mean, I think we'll hear more at 11 o'clock when the president talks. | ||
| Obviously, we know it was by the Delta force, which was involved in the raid on Abu Bakr Balkhati, Baghdadi, the head of ISIS. | ||
| So obviously, very powerful and talented, skillful members of the military. | ||
| I'm a little bit curious as to how they got into Venezuela undetected, how they knew where Maduro and his wife were. | ||
| It could have been signals intelligence, but it could have also been members of the regime who are secretly against Maduro and let the U.S. know. | ||
| So I'll be interested to know how the U.S. got that intelligence and how they got in those helicopters flew in undetected. | ||
| I think there are so many questions, Mimi, about what happens now, the transition. | ||
| We've been talking about how Darcy Rodriguez, the vice president, according to the Constitution, would become president now that he's out. | ||
| But what happens with there are a couple of others, Rodriguez doesn't really have a lot of ties to the military, and the role of the military is going to be very important. | ||
| So, looking at Interior Minister Cabello and Defense Minister Padmo, both Badimo, both have wielded significant influence with the military, which could remain loyal to them. | ||
| And the role of armed forces are going to be key into who takes the reins. | ||
| Cabello is one of the most feared and influential figures in the regime. | ||
| He has sweeping control over the party machinery and propaganda. | ||
| So his power is very important. | ||
| Vice President Rodriguez holds greater civilian and economic power. | ||
| And then there's the opposition. | ||
| As you know, Makado was exiled and wasn't even allowed to run for president. | ||
| And then Gonzalez came in and he technically would be the president. | ||
| So how is the opposition, do they have enough influence in the country to take over? | ||
| And what is the role of the United States going forward? | ||
| Is the military going to, is the regime going to try and hold on to power? | ||
| Is the United States going to go after other members of the regime? | ||
| If someone like Vice President Rodriguez or one of the interior defense ministers come in, the things that are important to the United States in terms of narco-terrorism is really not going to change that much. | ||
| And so how is the United States going to help kind of midwife, if you will, a transition? | ||
| And, you know, the question is, is this a one and done? | ||
| Secretary of State Marco Rubio said that he doesn't anticipate any more military action. | ||
| But if the regime refuses to go and they start cracking down on protesters, what's going to happen? | ||
| You saw President Trump the other day say that he was, quote, locked and loaded to go after the Iranian regime if they kill protesters. | ||
| What happens if the Venezuelan regime goes after people celebrating in the streets? | ||
| There's a law in the books, my understanding, is anybody celebrating anything happening to Maduro would be arrested. | ||
| So I'm going to, I think it could be very messy in Venezuela over the next few days and over the next few months. | ||
| And Elise, what do we know about how the U.S. has justified this attack? | ||
| And if you could put it in historical context for us with actions against Noriega in Panama and also against Qaddafi in Libya. | ||
| Okay, well, you know, the most similar thing, obviously, would be how the U.S. went after Noriega. | ||
| But, you know, that's the closest comparison. | ||
| They captured Panamanian leader Manuel Noriega with special forces. | ||
| You know, I think it was pretty close to this period of time in the year in 1990. | ||
| Now, both Maduro and Noriega had, you know, claimed victory in disputed elections. | ||
| Both had been accused by the United States of U.S. involvement in drug trafficking, and both had been kind of preceded by this big military buildup. | ||
| But Noriega's capture followed a very kind of short and decisive war between Nicaragua and the United Panama and the United States, in which Panamanian forces were quickly overwhelmed. | ||
| And so eventually Noriega was kind of persuaded to leave. | ||
| It's an interesting tale. | ||
| He was holed up in the Vatican embassy, and there was constant playing of rock band music in the Vatican for like 11 days, the clash, Van Hale and U2. | ||
| And he was, you know, he eventually said, okay, I've had enough. | ||
| And he was taken back to the United States where he faced charges for drug offenses. | ||
| The United States did indict Maduro in 2020 during Trump's first term on narco-trafficking, you know, intent to distribute drugs to the United States. | ||
| You saw U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi this morning say that Maduro and his wife had been indicted in the southern district of New York. | ||
| That's a federal district charged with narco-terrorism conspiracy. | ||
| I'm looking at the charges right here: cocaine importation, conspiracy, possession of machine guns and destructive devices to possess, you know, to cause harm against the United States. | ||
| So this is being framed as a law enforcement operation. | ||
| You know, that's what the whole rationale for these military strikes against Maduro originally were about, or against Venezuelan boats, I might say, were originally about stopping narco-trafficking. | ||
| The U.S. kept saying that Maduro had to go, but that it wasn't involved in regime change. | ||
| I think it's still going to argue this wasn't about regime change. | ||
| This is about getting Maduro out so that he could face charges in the United States. | ||
| What's different with Gaddafi is that the U.S. authorized military action against, and that's really the administration. | ||
| There wasn't really a congressional authorization of war to protect Libyan civilians. | ||
| And, you know, obviously there were many human rights violations against the Libyan people. | ||
| There was no such kind of claims right now. | ||
| Obviously, there's been a lot of criticism of Maduro and what he's done to his country and the crap done at his people. | ||
| But I don't think there's been any real kind of justification using the human rights violations. | ||
| All right, Elise, let's talk to callers. | ||
| Lance is in Portage, Indiana, Independent Line. | ||
| Lance, you're on with Elise Labbitt. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
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Good morning, happy new year. | |
| I'm just wondering, everybody here is like saying about it's all about drugs, and they go in and get Maduro. | ||
| And what about a month ago when he let Honduras Hernandez, the president there, when he let him out of prison? | ||
| Everybody's forgetting about that for the same charges. | ||
| All right, Elise. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, it's a great question. | ||
| And I was on with you all about a month ago. | ||
| We were talking about the same thing. | ||
| You know, the president was claiming about drugs, but he was more of a political ally of President Trump. | ||
| And so it was really a char, you know, criticism of hypocrisy. | ||
| And I think those are going to be a lot of questions going forward. | ||
| If the United States is very concerned, and look, President Trump has always been concerned about drugs. | ||
| And it is true that President Maduro has overseen, I don't know if he's necessarily the leader of this cartel, which the U.S. is tying him to, the Cartel de la Solas. | ||
| But he is kind of in bed with the narco-terrorists. | ||
| But there are just as most of the drugs that are coming to the United States are from Mexico, from Colombia. | ||
| Most of the Venezuelan drugs are going to West Africa and then on to Europe. | ||
| And to be sure, that's funding a lot. | ||
| When we talk about narco-terrorism, that's funding a lot of terrorism in Europe, you know, with a lot of these terrorist groups. | ||
| But it is a great question about, you know, if the United States is really concerned about drugs reaching the United States, Hernandez had even said that he was going to push the cocaine up the nose of those white gringos. | ||
| He was really, you know, in charge, very much responsible for sending a lot of drugs to the United States. | ||
| So it's a great point. | ||
| And you did mention Mexico. | ||
| I just want to show a tweet posting on X from Jennifer Jacobs. | ||
| She's a reporter with CBS News. | ||
| Apparently, President Trump has called into Fox News. | ||
| He says, Trump says, quote, something's going to have to be done with Mexico. | ||
| He says the cartels are running Mexico, not Claudia Scheinbaum. | ||
| Quote, I've asked her numerous times, would you like us to take out the cartels? | ||
| That is what President Trump just said on Fox News. | ||
| Your reaction to that, Elise? | ||
| I mean, listen, all of that is true. | ||
| You know, there are a lot of drugs coming from Mexico. | ||
| The Mexican government over various administrations has been unable to stem both the drugs themselves and the precursors that are coming from China to Mexico into the United States. | ||
| So clearly, Mexico, Colombia, you know, we could talk a little bit about Colombia and the, you know, cooperation with the United States over the last several decades. | ||
| You know, I think it's very concerning. | ||
| If, you know, we have to look at what President Trump says and what he does. | ||
| And, you know, is Mexico next? | ||
| I think that would be very concerning. | ||
| But it does have to be looked at in the context of the recent national security strategy that says the U.S. is going to kind of reassert dominance in the Western Hemisphere. | ||
| You know, the U.S. has kind of, to be fair, neglected the Western Hemisphere over the last decades because of what's been going on in the Middle East for so many years. | ||
| There's always been talk about a pivot to Asia, but the U.S. hasn't really paid much attention to the Western Hemisphere. | ||
| President Trump is doing that and is talking about not letting crime and drugs and terrorism destabilize the region. | ||
| So I think we have to watch this very closely to see if this is just rhetoric or is the U.S. going to step up action along the border or is Mexico next? | ||
| I think that, you know, Venezuela is one thing and it's very concerning. | ||
| But if the U.S. were to do anything in Mexico, that would be, you know, take it to a much higher level. | ||
| Here's Harry in Duluth, Georgia, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Harry. | ||
| You're on the air. | ||
|
unidentified
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Good morning. | |
| Happy New Year. | ||
| Happy New Year. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yes, I'm a Democrat that voted for Trump three times. | |
| Now, what I'm asking, number one, would be for the news media not to use the word allegedly any longer while speaking of the drug boats because three of our ships, I can't name them, I read it, but there were three ships of the United States that were picking up those drugs. | ||
| They come back and said it was worth so many millions of dollars worth of drugs that they have found in the waters and picked up. | ||
| So the allegedly is no longer appropriate. | ||
| Now, where our flotilla is there is very good because not only were these boats dead heading straight to the United States in some cases, but I believe they were hopscotching through the Caribbean and using the islands to redistribute and move forward and into the United States by hopscotching through the Caribbean islands. | ||
| Now, the other thing that I can't understand is that not only those drugs were coming in and pushing through the United States, they're also pushing up here through Canada. | ||
| And for the life of me, I don't know why Canada wouldn't even join in into this blockade because they were being hit with these same drugs by pushing through the United States and into their country. | ||
| So, Harry, let's go ahead and let Elise respond to those two points. | ||
| So, I mean, we use the word allegedly, Harry, is because the U.S., you know, as opposed to previous actions of, you know, we used to have like these full briefings where the United States, whether it's the Pentagon or the Coast Guard or whatever, would, you know, explain in great detail what the drugs were, how much they were, you know, where they were bound. | ||
| The administration hasn't given all that much information about those drugs. | ||
| And we're kind of taking it on faith what they say that, you know, there's very little evidence being presented. | ||
| I'm not saying that that's not true, but we say allegedly because we're unable to verify that ourselves. | ||
| Now, a lot of the drugs and some of the, I think, boat strikes that you're talking about were headed for like Trinitad and Chibago or, you know, the area between the United States and Latin America and South America. | ||
| And we don't know exactly where they were going. | ||
| They weren't necessarily bound for the United States. | ||
| We don't know that for sure. | ||
| So that's why we use allegedly. | ||
| Clearly, there are a lot of drugs coming to the United States. | ||
| It's unclear how much are really coming from Venezuela. | ||
| But as I said, it's just like there's not a lot of evidence. | ||
| So we can't say conclusively because the reporting is very thin. | ||
| And more on President Trump has called into Fox and Friends weekend. | ||
| And this is Akayla Gardner on X. Trump tells Fox News that Venezuelan leader Nicholas Maduro, quote, wanted to negotiate at the end and trying hard to make a deal. | ||
| But I said nope. | ||
| That's a reporter from MS Now, and this is Josh Rogan of the Washington Post. | ||
| Trump calls into Fox before his 11 a.m. address to the nation, quote, I watched it literally like watching a television show, the speed, the violence. | ||
| And back to the calls now. | ||
| This is Richard in Pennsylvania, Independent Line. | ||
| Go ahead, Richard. | ||
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unidentified
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Yes, thank you for taking my call. | |
| Let's go back in history a little bit. | ||
| Back pre-election, during the campaign, remember when he had big oil go down to Mar-a-Lago, and he promised them the world that they would donate. | ||
| Fast forward to today, there was a report in the New York Times as well as others back in October about how he wanted strictly the oil and the gold that is in Venezuela. | ||
| And let's see how many times the U.S. has gone after a country. | ||
| The only reason they go after a country is because of natural resources. | ||
| Silly as it may seem, back in Vietnam, rubber. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And how did that work out for top on your regimes? | ||
| Look where we're at now with Amanda. | ||
| And one last thing Elise had mentioned about, you know, how did we get the choppers in there undetected? | ||
| It makes you wonder why he was so buddy-butty with Bolsonaro, because he had this planned out since he was his first term. | ||
| He wanted this oil. | ||
| He wanted this. | ||
| And he was so close to Bolsonaro that he could have used Brazil to use as a launching pad to get into Venezuela. | ||
| This is what it's all about. | ||
| It's oil. | ||
| It's big oil. | ||
| He's cow telling, how about getting with NATO and going after Putin? | ||
| He's a coward. | ||
| I'll leave it at that. | ||
| Thanks. | ||
| Thanks for the call, Richard. | ||
| It's true that President Trump did, you know, kind of have an issue with Maduro during his first term. | ||
| If you remember, that was that failed election and the U.S. tried to install Juan Guaido, the legitimate winner of that election, as the leader of Venezuela. | ||
| That didn't work out. | ||
| And so I think President Trump was kind of loath to do that again. | ||
| And that's why he supported Ms. Majado, the winner, the head of the opposition, the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize. | ||
| But I think he's been a little bit careful to talk about her as the elected leader. | ||
| President Trump did, Maduro did want to negotiate with Trump. | ||
| It's a good question as to why he didn't. | ||
| President Trump spoke to Maduro, I think, in November. | ||
| There are probably a little bit more easier or less dramatic ways to get rid of Maduro, but then he wouldn't, I don't think he'd really give himself up to be indicted, to be tried in the United States. | ||
| He would have to go to a friendly country. | ||
| And I think the United States did want to try him. | ||
| Why? | ||
| As a message to send to Mexico, Colombia, if you don't take care of your cartels, we will. | ||
| It's kind of an exercise of U.S. power. | ||
| On the oil, you know, that was one of the rationales for going after Maduro and the regime. | ||
| Was it narco-terrorism? | ||
| Was it oil? | ||
| You know, there are a lot of factors. | ||
| And it's not just President Trump. | ||
| I mean, if you look at Secretary of State Marco Rubia, I don't think you can underestimate his involvement in this. | ||
| He's been working with members of the opposition. | ||
| He's been in touch with them. | ||
| The members of the opposition have been in touch with members of the regime. | ||
| So, I think it's, you know, Marco Rubio definitely was kind of the one leading the strategy, and President Trump was the front man, I think, of it. | ||
| And it's a great point about Brazil. | ||
| You know, Bonzaro is a close ally of the United States. | ||
| We'll hear more at 11 o'clock about, you know, the involvement of Brazil or any other countries friendly to the United States. | ||
| But what I think is interesting, we talked about how the helicopters got in undetected. | ||
| You know, Cuba is one of Venezuela's closest allies. | ||
| And I'm curious how Cuba wasn't able to detect this. | ||
| Cuba is known to have very good intelligence. | ||
| I'm surprised Cuban intelligence didn't detect this. | ||
| And it is possible that years of sanctions and years of kind of neglect by the regime there has hurt the intelligence forces in Cuba. | ||
| We also need to keep an eye on Cuba and what happens there. | ||
| All right, this is Gene in Illinois on the line for Republicans. | ||
| Gene, you're on with Elise Labbitt. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yes, the first thing I would like to say wasn't the guy from Honduras that was pardoned by Trump falsely accused. | |
| I think Trump knows all about being falsely accused for the last 10 years, he and his family. | ||
| Okay, and another thing. | ||
| Hold on, hold on. | ||
| Let's get a response to that and then I'll let you continue, Gene. | ||
| Okay, go ahead, Elise. | ||
| Well, you know, he wasn't, he was convicted. | ||
| I think the evidence was pretty conclusive. | ||
| And they did have, you know, I don't know that they had the kind of artificial intelligence, Gene, at the time to have him on tape saying, I'm, you know, I'm responsible for giving the United States all these drugs. | ||
| I want to push those drugs to the gringos, so to speak. | ||
| I mean, I think the evidence was pretty conclusive that Hernandez was involved in drug, you know, in the drug trade. | ||
| Okay, go ahead, Gene, with your other point. | ||
|
unidentified
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Well, from hearing you talk, I think you're pretty biased. | |
| I haven't heard too much greatness about Trump, but all I've heard is about Obama being okay with Gaddafi, taking him out. | ||
| You know, there wasn't Elise. | ||
| I don't think, you know, I respectfully disagree that I'm biased. | ||
| I give President Trump a lot of credit for a lot of the things he does. | ||
| He's, you know, I was on with your audience a month ago. | ||
| We were talking about the war in Gaza and gave him a lot of credit then. | ||
| You know, I'm not talking about greatness for any president. | ||
| And I certainly didn't speak about greatness for President Obama. | ||
| I was just saying that was a human rights type of thing. | ||
| And this is more of a kind of law enforcement, narco-terrorist kind of thing. | ||
| I do think, as I said a couple minutes ago, I think President Trump, to his credit, is putting more attention in the stability of the region. | ||
| And I'm looking forward to hearing more about their plans for the transition and for what happens in the region. | ||
| And we will be covering that news conference at 11 a.m. Eastern. | ||
| So be sure to stay with us for that from Mar-a-Lago. | ||
| This is Dee in Victoria, Texas, Democrat. | ||
| Go ahead, Dee. | ||
|
unidentified
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Thank you for taking my call. | |
| I've lived with the Constitution since I was born and I'm 68. | ||
| And I still think what Trump did was wrong because Congress is the only one who should be making war, has a right to make war, not Trump. | ||
| And if you're biased, so what? | ||
| Go ahead, Elise. | ||
| Well, I mean, Dee, thank you. | ||
| But, you know, I think, you know, what we try to do as journalists, and I appreciate that you do it at C-SPAN in particular, is that, you know, you try to look at the policy itself and you try to kind of leave politics out of it. | ||
| That's why at C-SPAN, they say that you guys are democracy unfiltered because it's really just looking at what's happening and trying to analyze it and not take any political position. | ||
| And because I've covered foreign affairs for a long time, I have a good constitutional memory, institutional memory, as they say. | ||
| In terms of the Congress, I think you're right. | ||
| That's a great issue. | ||
| There's been a lot of talk, and it's not just President Trump, to be fair. | ||
| It was with President Biden and President Obama as well about executive power and what can the executive, and we say executive, we mean the executive branch, the president, the national security apparatus, what are their powers? | ||
| And we've seen the Supreme Court give the executive and the president a lot of presidential power. | ||
| I think you're going to hear over the next couple of weeks members of Congress on both sides, you know, asking for more consultation with the administration. | ||
| I think, to be fair, Congress has pretty much taken a back seat because President Trump has exercised his presidential power in such a forceful way that sometimes it's a little hard for members of Congress. | ||
| And I think there's going to be a lot of, I think there's a lot of criticism of that by the American public. | ||
| And I think we're going to see a lot of that. | ||
| But in terms of Congress and authorizing war, there's been this authorization of the use of force back from the al-Qaeda days and 9-11. | ||
| And successive administrations have kind of recycled it as the authorization. | ||
| And if you kind of make a loose association to terrorism or harm to the United States, then, okay, we could just use that justification. | ||
| I think there is going to be a real push in Congress this week to get more congressional authority. | ||
| I think this leading up to the midterms, we're going to see a real kind of assertion by Congress of their advise and consent rule. | ||
| Let's talk to Lewis in Pensauken, New Jersey, Independent Line. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, Ms. LeBelle. | |
| I don't think you're biased at all, okay? | ||
| Thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
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I'm an independent. | |
| I voted for Trump three times. | ||
| Not happy with what's going on now. | ||
| But one of the reasons I think he went in there to get this guy out is because he was talking to Chinese and the Russians, for one thing. | ||
| And as far as how the helicopters got in there, well, I think Venezuela's neighbors are not happy at all because their gangs have been spreading out throughout South America, not just here, everywhere. | ||
| Chile, Ecuador, Brazil. | ||
| They've been infiltrating their countries. | ||
| Now, as far as declaring war, Trump didn't declare war. | ||
| He went in there and got this guy. | ||
| And that's about it. | ||
| Enjoy your day, lady. | ||
| Go ahead, Elise. | ||
|
unidentified
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Thank you. | |
| Any comments? | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| I think it's going to be interesting to see if people declare this. | ||
| You know, obviously Venezuela is calling it, you know, an act of war. | ||
| I think when you're, I don't think we're going to see any more military action. | ||
| I think that action that President Trump alluded to the other day about the dock, the kind of CIA strike is the closest we're going to get to land strikes. | ||
| A lot of people have said, you know, going after all these boats and the oil tanker, is that an act of war? | ||
| I'm going to leave that to international law experts and kind of legal advisors to say what that is. | ||
| I think that, you know, there is a big problem with narcoterrorism and drugs in the region. | ||
| You're right. | ||
| And it's not just in Venezuela. | ||
| I think, look at what are we going to see about Colombia? | ||
| You saw that the Colombians put a, you know, we're deploying troops to the border, not just because of, you know, they don't want migrants flowing across, which, you know, the United States is also very concerned about. | ||
| What is President Trump concerned about? | ||
| He's concerned about drugs and he's concerned about illegal migrants coming into the United States. | ||
| But the Colombians are also concerned about members of narco-terrorist groups going back and forth between Venezuela and Colombia. | ||
| And President Trump had been criticizing the Colombian president. | ||
| There's been a war of words going on with the Colombian president. | ||
| Colombia is a very close security ally of the United States. | ||
| Over the years, there's been a lot of good drug cooperation. | ||
| I think that's dampened in the last few years. | ||
| But again, President Trump's national security strategy. | ||
| And I encourage the audience to kind of take a look or read summaries. | ||
| It's online. | ||
| It is very interesting about how the United States wants to not just assert dominance, but really establish security through the region and make sure that there's nothing, whether it's migrants, whether it's drugs, whether it's terrorism. | ||
| And again, that's something that many administrations have kind of taken their eye off the ball in the region. | ||
| And so I think there's going to be a lot of activity in the region over the next, during President Trump's term. | ||
| It is also true in this national security strategy kind of mentions it. | ||
| There has been China, Russia, Iran. | ||
| They've made a lot of inroads in that region and particularly in Venezuela. | ||
| Look at who's criticizing today. | ||
| The Russians, the Chinese are looking very closely. | ||
| Let's see what we hear from Iran. | ||
| Yeah, you know, U.S. enemies were, you know, and they're all, you know, Iran is very close to narco-terrorism as well. | ||
| So, you know, let's keep an eye on what those countries say. | ||
| On the Republican line in Fort Mill, South Carolina, Maria, you're on the air. | ||
|
unidentified
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Hi. | |
| Good morning. | ||
| Happy New Year. | ||
| Waking up and trying to take all this in, to me, it's stunning. | ||
| The logic being used to go in and extract Maduro, bringing him up on narco-terrorism charges, and assuming that there is guilt there, that he is pushing drugs into our country. | ||
| The lack of logic is what's stunning to me, that if we're following that line of thinking, there are governors in this country that could, in my opinion, easily be brought up on charges of sponsoring that kind of terrorism when you have drug laws on the books in places, mayors, governors in places like Seattle, Portland, | ||
| even parts of Pennsylvania and Philadelphia, where drug use is rampant. | ||
| And again, following that line of logic that Americans are being hurt by this, it just kind of falls flat for me that we're going into Venezuela. | ||
| We are toppling a regime. | ||
| And I'm sure we'll learn more at 11, what the plan is, that maybe this isn't, you know, another U.S. regime change. | ||
| But I guess that's what I'm trying to process right now is this, this, we have problems in this own country. | ||
| We have issues that by this logic, Americans are being hurt and Americans are dying. | ||
| And we're looking outside. | ||
| It seems like another case of world police. | ||
| We talk about the sovereignty of our border, yet we go thousands of miles away, breach a border, topple a government. | ||
| And that's what I'm just trying to. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, let's get to your response, okay? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, look, Maria, I think we're all thinking that this morning when they called me up and said, could you come on Suzpan and talk? | ||
| And I was thinking about what happened yesterday. | ||
| And then I looked, saw what happened. | ||
| And I was like, wait, the United States went into Venezuela and took out Maduro? | ||
| It does kind of defy logic, if you will, in terms of like, I don't think anybody, you know, I don't think anybody really saw that coming. | ||
| And, you know, I think what you're going to see by the administration is, you know, to the charges, this isn't very America first. | ||
| They would say that, you know, if you follow the logic, I'm not saying I, you know, this is the logic I think you're going to see from the administration. | ||
| Maduro is responsible for drugs and cartels that are coming to the United States and are hurting Americans. | ||
| And, you know, also you see this flow of migrants that are, you know, that's obviously very important to President Trump. | ||
| And I think, you know, one of the things, I don't think we're going to hear much talk about this right now, but I think it's definitely something to think about is why are we not doing anything, as you said, about demand in this country? | ||
| You know, why aren't there more drug programs for the United States for Americans in this country that we wouldn't need to go to far away if there wasn't such, you know, to stop this flow of drugs if there isn't such a demand in the United States? | ||
| So I think that's the logic that the United States and the administration and Maduro, this is not, you know, a new thing. | ||
| This is, and I think they're going to say this is not regime change. | ||
| This is getting the head of a regime. | ||
| I'll be interested to see if the administration wants to get rid of more people in the regime, whether it's the vice president, as we talked about, of the defense or the interior minister, because they're also part of this Chavismo, which is the original head, Maduro's predecessor, Hugo Chavez, and this whole kind of narco-terrorist dictator head of state. | ||
| If those members of the regime stay in power, you're really not going to see anything different in terms of flow to the United States. | ||
| So when we hear from the administration about what they're, you know, in diplomacy and covering foreign affairs, we talk about what's the strategic objective. | ||
| We don't really know what the strategic objective is because every day it's been something different. | ||
| One day it's drugs, one day it's Maduro, one day it's oil. | ||
| We really don't know. | ||
| And so I think what's going to be really important is to see how the U.S. handles Venezuela and the region going forward. | ||
| Is this part of a bigger strategy? | ||
| And certainly Secretary of State Rubio has had his eye on this region from when I was covering him when I was at CNN, you know, in early 2000 and, you know, beyond when I was at CNN. | ||
| And then Marco Rubio was a senator. | ||
| He was really talking about Chavez and Maduro and Cuba. | ||
| And so what is the U.S. strategy for Venezuela, for the transition for that, you know, kind of Andes region, so to speak? | ||
| And how is that going to affect Americans? | ||
| And then the demand issue, as you said. | ||
| And we'll be watching all of that. | ||
| Elise Labbitt is a global affairs journalist and a cosmopolitics substack founder. | ||
| She's also a professor at the American University School of International Service. | ||
| Thanks so much, Elise, for joining us today. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Happy New Year. | ||
|
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And some reaction to the U.S. strikes in Venezuela from Capitol Hill. | |
| House Speaker Mike Johnson released this statement that reads in part: Today's military action in Venezuela was a decisive and justified operation that will protect American lives. | ||
| Nicolas Maduro is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans after years of trafficking, illegal drugs, and violent cartel members into our country, crimes for which he's been properly indicted in U.S. courts and an arrest warrant duly issued. | ||
| And today, he learned what accountability looks like. | ||
| The Trump administration is working to schedule briefings for members as Congress returns to Washington next week. | ||
| Meanwhile, outgoing Georgia Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene felt differently and released a lengthy statement opposed to the military action. | ||
| Her post reads in part: Americans' disgust with our own government's never-ending military aggression and support of foreign wars is justified because we are forced to pay for it, and both parties, Republicans and Democrats, always keep the Washington military machine funded and going. | ||
| The United States struck military targets in Venezuela, resulting in the capture of Nicolas Maduro and his wife. | ||
| Next, from Mar-a-Lago, President Trump announces the action and takes questions from the press. | ||
| Hello, everybody. |