CSPAN - Washington Journal 12/28/2025

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Dec. 28, 2025 07:00-10:01 - CSPAN

03:00:41

Washington Journal 12/28/2025

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Main

jasmine wright

cspan 29:18

Appearances

bernie sanders

sen/d 02:19

brian lamb

cspan 00:46

chris wright

01:06

donald j trump

admin 03:09

gerri willis

fox 00:30

hakeem jeffries

rep/d 01:59

jacqui heinrich

fox 00:33

jerome powell

01:52

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jim marrs

00:13

jim wright

00:03

russell means

00:09

sheriff richard mack

00:07

Callers

john in missouri

callers 00:07

justin in texas

callers 01:30

ryan in gainesville

callers 00:16

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		To Democracy.
		Coming up on today's edition of Washington Journal, after a look at the news and some viewer calls, we'll continue our Holiday Authors Week series featuring live conversations with a new author each day.
		Our guest will be John Jay College of Criminal Justice Constitutional Law Professor Gloria Brown Marshall, who will discuss her book, A Protest History of the United States.
		Washington Journal starts now.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		This is Washington Journal for today, Sunday, December 28th.
		As we close out 2025, new polls show Americans have an increasingly gloomy outlook when it comes to the economy.
		So as you look ahead to the new year, what are your top economic concerns?
		Is it the cost of living, housing, or health care?
		We want to hear from you, so start calling in now.
		Republicans, your line is 202-748-8001.
		Democrats, your line is 202-748-8000.
		Independents, your line is 202-748-8002.
		You can also text us at 202-748-8003.
		Include your first name, city, and state.
		You can find us on Facebook at facebook.com forward slash C-SPAN or on X at C-SPANWJ.
		We start this morning on the economy as Americans have an increasingly gloomy outlook on the economic situation in 2026.
		According to a mayor's poll out in mid-December, it shows that more than six in 10 say the economy is not working for them personally.
		Economic pessimism, it goes on to say, for 2026, is widespread.
		According to those surveyed for this poll, only 21% said that their personal financial situation in the past year has gotten better.
		44% say that it stayed the same, and 35% said that it got worse.
		For another question in that survey, said only 33% predicted that their personal finances for next year would get better.
		29% said that it would get worse.
		And 39% said that it would stay about the same.
		Asked what is the most concerning issue for the economy, 45% of those surveyed said prizes, 18% said housing costs, 15% said tariffs, 10% said job security, 9% said interest rates, and 4% said stock market volatility.
		Now that was from the mayor's poll out in mid-December.
		The president and the White House have gotten recent positive economic news despite those concerns.
		If we go to a Wall Street Journal article from just last week, it showed that consumers powered strongest U.S. economic growth in the last two years.
		It showed that the gross domestic product, GDP, the value of all goods and services produced across the economy, rose at a seasonally and inflation-adjusted 4.3% annual rate from July through September, the Commerce Department said.
		Now that report was, of course, delayed nearly two months by the government shutdown and looks back at the period before the shutdown was in effect.
		It does, however, offer a snapshot of an economy that has managed to keep humming along for the year.
		Now that came after a CPI number in the White House's favor showed that inflation stated at about 2.7% lower than the 3% that we saw in months earlier this year.
		Still, the White House has defended their economy.
		We heard from President Trump in his primetime address earlier this month at the White House talking about it.
		Take a listen here.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		And after just one year, we have achieved more than anyone could have imagined.
		Starting on day one, I took immediate action to stop the invasion of our southern border.
		For the past seven months, zero illegal aliens have been allowed into our country, a feat which everyone said was absolutely impossible.
		Do you remember when Joe Biden said that he needed Congress to pass legislation to help close the border?
		He was always blaming Congress and everyone else.
		As it turned out, we didn't need legislation.
		We just needed a new president.
		We inherited the worst border anywhere in the world, and we quickly turned it into the strongest border in the history of our country.
		In other words, in a few short months, we went from worst to best.
		We're deporting criminals, restoring safety to our most dangerous cities.
		Just take a look at Washington, D.C.
		It's at levels of safety that we've never seen before.
		And they decimated the bloodthirsty foreign drug cartels.
		We did that all by ourselves with our people, and we're so proud of it because they were poisoning and destroying our population.
		Drugs brought in by ocean and by sea are now down 94 percent.
		We have broken the grip of sinister woke radicals in our schools, and control over those schools is back now in the hands of our great and loving states where education belongs.
		After rebuilding the United States military in my first term, and with the addition we are adding right now, we have the most powerful military anywhere in the world, and it's not even close.
		I've restored American strength, settled eight wars in 10 months, destroyed the Iran nuclear threat, and ended the war in Gaza, bringing for the first time in 3,000 years peace to the Middle East and secured the release of the hostages, both living and dead.
		Here at home, we're bringing our economy back from the brink of ruin.
		The last administration and their allies in Congress looted our treasury for trillions of dollars, driving up prices and everything at levels never seen before.
		I am bringing those high prices down and bringing them down very fast.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		So that was President Trump from the White House earlier this month touting his administration's wins as they perceived them in his first year of office.
		Now, let's turn to House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries earlier this week talking about the president's first year and the economy.
		Take a listen here.
hakeem jeffries ▲ ● ▼		We started a year and Donald Trump promised that this would be the golden age in America.
		We're ending the year and the overwhelming majority of the American people, including many so-called Trump supporters, know that this year has been a disaster for the American people.
		Last night, Donald Trump once again made it clear to the American people that he apparently still believes that the affordability crisis in this country is a hoax.
		It is not a hoax.
		The affordability crisis is very real.
		And one of the reasons why this year has been such a disaster for everyday Americans under complete Republican control of government, they have the House, the Senate, and the presidency they've had all year.
		They've had complete control of government and they've done nothing to lower the high cost of living in this country.
		Now, Donald Trump and Mike Johnson and John Thune and House Republicans and Senate Republicans repeatedly promised to the American people last year that they were going to lower the high cost of living.
		In fact, they said that costs would go down on day one.
		They lied to the American people.
		Costs haven't gone down in the United States of America, and everybody knows it.
		Costs have gone up.
		Housing costs are out of control.
		Grocery costs are out of control.
		Electricity bills are out of control.
		Childcare costs are out of control.
		And health care costs are out of control.
		And about to get worse because of the Republican health care crisis that has been devastating everyday Americans throughout this year.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		That was House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries talking about the economy earlier this month.
		So let's turn to your calls.
		Jeffrey from Greensboro, North Carolina, an independent.
		Your line is open.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		Thank you for taking the call and happy holidays.
		Happy holidays.
		I got a couple of things out of all of this.
		It is right.
		And I don't want to sound like if Mr. Trump was, you know, really in a position that I can feel what he's advocating, I will give him credit for that.
		It is totally, totally wrong what he just said.
		And House Leader Hakeem Jeffries is right.
		My utility bills is definitely like $30 to $40 higher.
		Same routine, same thermostat, same putting it on this.
		Food is absolutely over the top in Greensboro.
		I can only speak for Greensboro.
		They're doing nothing but increasing people who are struggling or day to day, week to week.
		I don't know where y'all are living at.
		I wish I could move there because it's not happening.
		It's not happening where I'm at or more importantly, day to day.
		It's disturbing to hear people say this, educators, get on TV and act like my insurance is about to, oh my God, I'm just going to be stuck.
		I can't afford it.
		I'm embarrassed to say it, but I can't afford it.
		It's nothing that he's saying that he turned it around.
		He's turned it up.
		He's put myself in a tremendous, dangerous position.
		And as well as others that's been advocating about this insurance that's going up.
		So where are y'all living at where it's being so great at?
		Because it's not here.
		It's just not here.
		And, you know, it's sad that so many other callers is going to dismiss what's saying what other people, every it, it's unbelievable that I can't get the answer or hear the correct direction that the country should be going in.
		Where is it where everybody's just so comfortable and they are feeling this great turnaround buildup this last four years that was just so diabolical that everybody was begging for him or begging for this help?
		Where's the help?
		Please just give me that answer.
		And I pray in 2026, I see something other than what I'm seeing right now.
		Higher energy bill, water bill, food bill, insurance, everything has gone up under Mr. Trump.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		And that's Eddie from Georgia, a Democrat.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		You're next.
unidentified		Yes, ma'am.
		The guy that the guy just was on was telling the truth.
		Just Trump being in office, Trump only being doing for the billionaires and the millionaire and himself and his family.
		I don't see no increase.
		You know, my insurance, the insurance, he's dismantled.
		The Republican is taken away from us.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about the affordable health care subsidies.
unidentified		Yes, look, I'm on Medicaid, I'm on Medicare, and I'm on a supplement of Aetna.
		Aetna, I thought Aetna was a good plan before the Republicans started taking stuff.
		They wanted it.
		They raised mine to $260.
		And I'm on Social Security disability.
		They gave us a lit increase of $56, but they making it.
		We got to pay $26 towards Medicaid.
		And Aetna want to say they want me to pay $20 more.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		So your concern or your top concern going into next year is health care.
unidentified		Is that very interesting?
		Health care, the food.
		I went to the store and he's right.
		I don't know.
		I don't see where they say everything is going down.
		I brought at least six bags home, and it cost me over $290.
		And I didn't get a few things of meat and the rent.
		Good thing I talked to the landlord and got mine, got him to agree with us not to raise the rent because then he wanted to raise the rent another $200.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Gordon from Kansas City, a Republican, you're next.
unidentified		Hey, Jeff, how are you doing?
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Hi, how are you?
unidentified		Did you have a good Christmas?
		I hope you did.
		I did.
		Thank you.
		Go ahead.
		That guy needs to move to Kansas, I guess, because the prices are going down here, right and left.
		And I do not have one concern.
		I'm waiting on that big, fat tax return, and it's going to do.
		He's only been there a year, people.
		And in that graph he showed, it was 35, 44, and 29 or something like that.
		If you add the same and better, 65% think things are better in that marital poll.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Well, that wasn't the equation, but yes.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		In terms of getting better, it was about a third each section.
unidentified		Hakeem Jeffries has hard, had a trouble putting three words together without stopping and figuring out what to say.
		Trump's the best president we've ever had.
		Let him go.
		By summertime, people are going to be wanting him to run again.
		He's going to fix this economy if they'll shut up and let him do it.
		Thank you.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Now, to that caller's point, I turned to a Fox Business article published yesterday, December 27th.
		The headline is: Americans will get, quote, gigantic tax refund next year.
		Treasury Secretary says, it quotes Secretary Bessant from an interview, which says that Treasury Secretary Scott Besson predicted that Americans will see a gigantic refund and checks in the upcoming filing season thanks to tax cuts and President Donald Trump's One Big Beautiful Act.
		Besset, who also serves as the acting commissioner of the IRS, made the remark during an appearance in the All-In podcast, and he told the host that tax provisions in the act, which Trump signed in July, applied retroactively to the beginning of the year.
		And because most workers did not change their withholdings, many can expect sizable refunds in 2026.
		John from Florida, an independent.
		You're next.
unidentified		Yeah, good morning.
		As far as the economy goes, I mean, I feel it's going to improve over time.
		I mean, if we watch the gas prices right now, I think we were at $56 a barrel.
		I think we backed up to about $58 a barrel.
		The lower those gas prices go, and President Trump's got a pretty big platform on lowering these gas prices, energy prices.
		I believe the food prices will come down, electricity prices will come down.
		But as far as electricity, each state, you know, handles their own electricity.
		So you've got to even look for your own county or state for your electricity prices and see what they're doing there.
		As far as the big beautiful bill, I guess, yeah, the first couple of guys who called who were on Social Security, you're going to see a good amount of money that you can write off for your Social Security.
		So you'll have more money coming back.
		If you're working overtime, you're going to get that back in your tax returns.
		You know, no taxes on overtime.
		There's going to be no taxes on tips for all our waitresses and maids and everybody else who works for tips out there.
		You're going to have no taxes on that.
		Unless you live in New York State, they are not going to honor that and they are going to tax you on your tips, which is ridiculous.
		But, you know, it takes a long time.
		Joe Biden really did a number.
		Joe Biden and his regime did a real number on this country.
		We are 9%, 10% inflation.
		Prices were going through the roof.
		I didn't hear that much screaming and yelling from the Democrats on it.
		But if things are going to get better, guys, hang in there.
		I expect by next year, around the midterms, everyone's going to be in pretty good shape.
		So just hang in there.
		Look at your tax returns.
		Make sure you get every dollar you can get from them.
		And you're going to have great tax return season.
		Remember, also, if you bought a new car, you can write the interest off on that car.
		So there's a lot of things going on with these tax returns.
		There's going to be plenty of money for everybody.
		Hang in there, even everybody.
		Thank you.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Gary from the Bronx, New York, Republican.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		You're next.
unidentified		Yes.
		How are you doing?
		First of all, you know, Trump has only been there one year.
		We got to give him time because no other president has fixed an economy in one year.
		Ronald Reagan didn't do it.
		And Bill Clinton, which the economy was very good under him, it took him time.
		So we got to give him time.
		We just can't rush and say, oh, my God, we got to get him out.
		Because the last four years was horrible.
		It was horrible that the price of food and housing is scarce over here in New York.
		And then every new development they're putting is for rich people.
		There's nothing being built for middle class or the poor anymore.
		And basically, that's all I have to say.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Colette from Oregon, a Democrat.
		You're next.
		Excuse me.
unidentified		Go to the U.S. debt clock.
		And Trump has put us in $2 trillion further in debt.
		I think that will reflect on all of us when we go to Brown Money or buy anything.
		He was supposed to lower the debt, and he hasn't even tried to.
		The first thing he done was okay for a $2 trillion debt extension, and they got it.
		So we're just going further and further in debt.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I pulled up on my iPad here.
		You'll see in the screen in a second the current U.S. debt clock to that caller's point.
		There you can see U.S. national debt, $38 trillion, U.S. federal spending, and all those kinds of things.
		You can find that at usdebtclock.org.
		Rick from Pennsylvania, a Republican, you're next.
unidentified		Good morning.
		You know, you got like the guy from Bronx said, you have to give him another year at least.
		You know, it's kind of funny with our media, NBC, CBS, ABC, when they talk about prices, they always say for the past five years.
		Well, Donald Trump had nothing to do with the prices during Biden's time.
		It was 9%.
		Now we're down to 2.3%.
		My concern for the next year is I think that we're going to be just fine because we all are Americans, whether you're Democrat or Republican.
		And, you know, the Democrats just have to hold on.
		I mean, I know they got Jeffrey up there shaking his arms and everything.
		But, you know, God bless America.
		Trump loves America, period.
		With the debt, you know, and you can pull the, I saw you had the clock up, but what we should check to see is how much the debt rises with the inflation, not inflation, but the interest rates, the interest on the debt.
		You know, Mr. Powell, God bless him and everything, but he should have lowered that interest rate at the beginning of the year.
		When we lower that interest rate, it always knocks down the national debt.
		But hold on, people.
		I mean, you know, when they talk about no tax on tips, it's your governors who are still going to tax those tips versus the federal government versus Trump.
		You know, we really should just hold on.
		And that's my take from Erie PA.
		Bye.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		That was Rick from Eri PA.
		To his point, I want to bring up this CNBC article from earlier this month.
		It said, here's the headline is, here's the inflation breakdown for November 2025 in one chart.
		The consumer price index declined unexpectedly in November 2025.
		It was the first CPI report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics since the government shutdown ended last month.
		If you go a little bit further in the story, it says the consumer price index, a key inflation barometer, rose 2.7% in November from a year earlier.
		The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported Thursday.
		That was a slowdown from the 3% inflation rate in September, the last month of available data, and came in lower than expected.
		So that was a CPI rate, about 3% earlier this year when Trump entered office, now 2.7% in that latest survey.
		Martha from California, an independent, you're next.
unidentified		Hello.
		I just wanted to say that my concerns are that it appears that every single president has taken us so much further into debt, and no one is really doing anything to curtail that.
		I see taxes being increased on properties being in California.
		It's outrageously out of control on top of bonds that are placed on neighborhoods and housing, and the school funding is out of control.
		Trump has done nothing to get us out of debt.
		So much of the money that he has allocated to private corporations and for Department of Defense, every time we're in a situation financially with the dollar,
		the purchasing power decreasing to six and down to three cents purchasing power and then putting us even further into debt with being involved in all these different wars.
		Just people are not realizing that this debt is going to completely collapse.
		Our economy and other countries in the East are going to be rising up and we're going to be left way behind.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		That was Martha from California.
		I pulled up a PBS NewsHour article.
		The headline is, U.S. hits $38 trillion in debt after the fastest accumulation of $1 trillion outside of the pandemic.
		In the midst of the federal government shutdown, this is back from October 2023, October 23, 2025.
		In the midst of a federal government shutdown, the U.S. government's gross national debt surpassed $38 trillion on Wednesday, a record number that highlights the accelerating acceleration of the debt on America's balance sheet.
		It said the U.S. hit $37 trillion in gross national debt in August of this year.
		And so in October, it hit $38 trillion.
		Loretta from Vermont, a Democrat, you're next.
unidentified		Hi.
		I'm on a teacher's salary, and I can barely afford my health care as it is.
		And I'm concerned about the cuts in the government subsidies with our health care.
		My daughter has a serious health condition since she was a child.
		And as an adult, she now needs two supplemental insurance policies to afford her health care.
		And I'm also concerned about the cuts in social programs such as Head Start, which support children and families in breaking the cycle of poverty.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		So on Loretta's first point, I turn to a Hill article.
		The headline there is, a deal to extend Obamacare subsidies faces uphill battle despite GOP optimism.
		If you go a little bit further, it says, without a deal, health care premiums are projected to spike by double digits next month.
		That's January 1st.
		Yet Senate leaders Jon Thune and Chuck Schumer each have reasons to shy away from backing a bipartisan deal.
		At the same time, failure to pass a bipartisan deal to rein in rising premiums could set the stage for another government shutdown in February if liberals on Capitol Hill seize the initiative and demand concessions on health in exchange for funding the government.
		So that is the latest update when it comes to whether or not Congress is prepared to extend those ACA subsidies.
		That could raise premiums by about 26%, according to KFF News.
		Tim from South Carolina, a Republican, you're next.
unidentified		Yes, ma'am.
		I'd like to point out to the public that Donald J. Trump is not a politician.
		Last July the 4th, we passed a big beautiful bill.
		Most of it hasn't came in effect yet.
		So let's go through the tax return season and let's go and see what happens through that to stir up the economy and also all the offshore benefits that's going to come with the companies coming in and creating more employment.
		So, you know, right now, people just want to take and give him a hard time when he should be going back and looking at the record of the previous administration and all the damage he done to our country.
		You know, things don't happen in one year.
		So let's just, everybody be calm and let's see what he can do, what he can do.
		Thank you.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		That was Tim from South Carolina.
		Barbara from Tennessee and Independent.
		Once I find your number, you're next.
unidentified		Thank you.
		All right.
		I just got to listen to that man that was just talking, and he's right about Trump, about maybe the facts haven't really hadn't taken effect till the next coming year.
		But I think the tariffs have just for anticipation of the tariffs starting.
		I think everything has taken effect.
		I'm concerned about all of it.
		I'm concerned about the debt.
		I wish he just take a piece of gold he plastered on that ballroom he's going to make and put it toward the health care.
		That's all I got to say.
		Thank you.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Michelle from Alabama, a Democrat.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		You're next.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Happy Kwanzaa and Happy New Year.
		I've been listening to your show, and it's just so hard to hold on to your comment from earlier because you listen to everybody else.
		But I wanted to start off with this tax return.
		So the tax returns and smoke and mirrors.
		Yes, we're going to get a nice tax return.
		But after the tax return, everything in that big, ugly bill takes effect.
		And so you will begin to see everything that he has done wrong to Americans.
		The next thing is that $38 trillion that we are in debt.
		The question is: who are we in debt to?
		That's the question.
		The third thing is health care.
		Trump said he had a plan, what, six, eight years ago when he came in the first time?
		And we haven't had a plan yet.
		But subsidies are going away and rural hospitals are about to close.
		So all those rural people who call talk about how great he is now because you have your rural health care, your rural hospital today, you won't have it this time tomorrow, next year, because of his big, ugly bill.
		The last thing that I want to say is: everyone talks about how wrong or cool or everything Biden did was so bad.
		I am 58 years old, and I have never lived to see people taken away from their families, sent off to another country, and you do not know where they are.
		This is cruel and unusual punishment.
		And that's all I have to say.
		Thank you for your time.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Patrick from Pennsylvania, a Republican.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		You're next.
unidentified		You know, I've never heard more fiction than the previous caller just deployed.
		It's so utterly ridiculous.
		Here are the real facts.
		You want to listen to fiction, listen to some of the callers who call on deer.
		The fact of the matter is: 12 million, this is the minimum, the 12 million illegal immigrants that came into our country have completely undermined our entire, our entire health care system.
		They walk into our hospitals and they're automatically entitled to treatment.
		All of these costs, 100%, including women who go into our hospitals, have premature babies, and hand a $500,000 bill to the American people.
		I just received the increase in my health care costs.
		My new contract has a 40% increase.
		100% of that is due to the avalanche of illegal immigrants coming into America.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Patrick, what evidence do you have for that claim?
		And let me ask you: are you on Affordable Care Act?
		Are you getting your health care through your private insurance?
		How is that allocated?
		Are you going to get through Medicaid, Medicare?
		How is that allocated?
unidentified		Legal.
		My spouse is a leading executive in the healthcare industry, and we receive incredible.
		I received the most advanced health care reimbursement system.
		We have the best care.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so you're on private.
		No, I'm not sitting here and telling you anything.
		I'm just asking you questions to clarify exactly what you're saying.
		So you're on private health care.
unidentified		I come from a relationship with an executive in the industry.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		30 years in the industry with High Mark Crossbow Shield with UPMC in the city of Pittsburgh.
		And my health care costs have gone up 40%.
		And it's directly, it's 100% directed to the illegal immigrants, the avalanche of illegal immigrants that come into this into the United States.
		So you want to sit there and lie on national television?
		Go ahead and do it.
		But the facts don't lie.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Jack from Tallahassee, Florida, and Independent.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		You're next.
unidentified		All right.
		Good morning, and happy new year coming up.
		I just want to just say, I've been listening to this, many of which I agree with a lot of the callers.
		But let me just get back to the point of the last call.
		Pacts do not lie.
		And he's correct about that.
		But you just need to look at the facts.
		Number one, on healthcare.
		Now, the healthcare industry that he brought up, they are causing the cost to go up.
		Health care around the world is better, at least more affordable than it is here.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Blake from Jacksonville, North Carolina, Democrat.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		You're next.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		How are you doing?
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing well.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
unidentified		All right.
		Merry Christmas, by the way.
		I was just listening, and I'm watching y'all now.
		And this last guy that before this last guy here, he's talking all that junk, and everybody blame the Republicans.
		I mean, the Democrats for their mistakes, but they don't say nothing about the Republicans.
		And I don't know why they let Donald Trump take over the nation and destroy our nation because he nothing but a liar himself.
		So people need to start looking at what he says and taking it at facts before the world ends with his, I can't even hardly see it.
		But he needs to get that gold out, like that lady said, out the White House, stop tearing up the people house, and get himself in order before he can get anybody else in order to stop the wars.
		That's all I got to say.
		And God bless America and Merry Christmas to America.
		We love you.
		Bye.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Mark from New York, Kentucky, a Republican.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		You're next.
unidentified		Are you there?
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Yep, I'm here.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think the economy is going to go great when the new bill kicks in next year.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		It seems like the only problems that you have on the show is the Democrats is the only ones that's really got problems.
unidentified		I mean, you look at Minnesota, California, all the fraud in the Medicaid.
		No wonder our insurance is going up.
		Could you imagine if Kamala would have got elected and all that stuff would have just kept going?
		Thank God for that.
		That's all I got.
		Have a great day.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Gregory from Louisiana, an independent, you're next.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		My problem is with some of the comments of this.
russell means ▲ ● ▼		They're always talking about the budget and the health care going up, but what they don't mention is it's going up purposely.
unidentified		It's not the program or the health care industry itself.
		It is the insurance companies.
		And what they don't mention is most of them are run by Republicans.
		So it is a purpose thing that's going on.
		They're doing it on purpose to make it look bad while they're raking in all the money.
		However, the Republicans, you guys must be living in a multi-universe or something.
		I mean, it is astounding because I worked at the hospital before, and ne'er immigrants came through here.
		And I never see any kind of immigrants in any emergency room around the country.
		And I travel a lot.
		And I don't know where you're getting your numbers from.
		You buying into all that junk.
		And it's crazy.
		That's all I hear.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Gregory from Wisconsin, a Democrat, or excuse me, Tim from Wisconsin, a Democrat.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		You're next.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I just like to say, good morning.
		This new billionaire bill isn't going to help me much.
		My deduction out of myself, I'm going to make $50 less next year on my Social Security than I did this year.
		That's because Medicare is going up considerably and my supplement plan went up considerably.
		So anyhow, even with my COLA benefit, I'm still going to lose 50 bucks.
		But having said that, there's so much smoke and mirror in this big billionaire bill.
		If people think they're going to get a big tax refund, just wait.
		If you're on Social Security, and a lot of the people in this country are, that call in and they're mad at the world for whatever reason, even though they say the economy is sure going great, but they yell into the phone and screech at you, and I feel sorry for you on that.
		But having said that, the economy is doing not much different than it did under Biden.
		I mean, costs went up exorbitantly under Biden.
		It wasn't all his fault that they always say, give it a chance, give it a chance.
		When Biden took over, the economy was in complete chaos and free fall after COVID.
		Let's be real here.
		Oh, gas prices were down.
		Why knew I?
		Nobody could go anywhere.
		You know, I wish you would put up a chart of the gas this country has drilled per day in the last 15 years and just see that Trump has no control over gas.
		That's set by OPEC and the other world gas companies that put the oil on the market.
		Trump has zero to do with that.
		If you'd put up that chart, it would prove it.
		And also, I would just like to say, I hope everybody has a happy new year and can mellow out a little bit.
		And especially in Washington, D.C., they can't seem to agree on what day of the week it is, let alone on any policies that will actually help benefit the people of this country.
		So let's all take a step back.
		But with Trump out there, because he talks about hating their enemies and what he did after the murder in California, I can't think of his name right now.
		I'm sorry.
		I apologize for that.
		But what he said about him, I mean, that kind of talk is just not right.
		I don't care if you're Republican, Democrat, or Independent, what race you are, what religion you are.
		Right is right and wrong is wrong.
		And thank you for giving me this much time.
		Have a good day.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		So, to the caller's point, I pulled up an article from Politico published in November that says Trump says he brought prices down, the headline reads.
		The reality is more complicated.
		If you go down, scroll link, it says, industry analysis are mixed on how much credit Trump deserves for bringing prices, bringing down prices at the pump, which are largely driven by the global price of crude oil.
		Quote, any president's ability to affect the price of crude oil is usually very limited, said Bob McNally, who advised former President George W. Bush on energy policy and is now president of an energy group.
		When it comes to Trump's claims, McNally said, I would say he can claim an assist, not a total responsibility for lower oil prices.
		And gas right now, according to a survey, is around $270 across the country.
		Of course, some places are lower, some places are higher.
		Paul from Cornwall, New York, a Republican, you're next.
unidentified		Yes, good morning, and thank you for taking my call.
		Happy holidays, everyone.
		Happy holidays.
		I'm actually seeing prices come down in New York State.
		You just mentioned gasoline prices.
		I'm seeing a drop in the prices in gasoline where I am.
		And also in the grocery store, I've seen the price of beef actually coming down.
		One of my grocery stores had a really great sale on beef, and I could pick up three stakes, nice rareby stakes, for $15.
		I haven't seen that in a long time, and they were decent-sized stakes as well.
		It's like what a lot of callers are saying.
		It's coming down.
		It's going to take time.
		I see the Democrats not coming to the table with anything.
		Kathy Hochl, the governor here, she's not coming to the table with anything.
		The roads are in horrible shape.
		When you ask your senators and your elected officials, where's the money going that we're paying taxes on?
		They can't give a straight answer on it.
		So that's really all I have to say.
		Happy New Year, everybody.
		See you next year.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Arlene from St. Joseph, Michigan, an independent, you're next.
unidentified		Yeah, I have Donald said prices are starting to slowly come down at the grocery stores.
		Of course, the gas prices have curved down.
		And as far as medical goes, my husband was recently in the hospital over there in the area I live in.
		And they called in every specialist that they could possibly think of.
		I think the only doctor he didn't see was a pediatrician and a gynecologist.
		And that is what's wrong with our medical in the United States.
		It has just gotten terrible.
		And one doctor doesn't talk to another.
		One doctor says, give them this.
		The other doctor says, don't give them that.
		And the patient is put in the middle.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		So going into 2026, it's fair to say, Arlene, that your top concern is health care costs.
unidentified		No, no, I would say the immigration.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		I mean, top concerns on the economy.
unidentified		On the economy.
		Well, immigration.
		That is what has turned our economy so bad.
		We have to support all these people that have come in here.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Joe from Oklahoma City, Democrat, you're next.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
		Thank you for having me on.
		I think my top concern is ignorance.
		And the reason I say ignorance is if you listen to all of the callers that call in, it's such a different reality on each side.
		And so I think the economy and your impression of it has to greatly depend on if you're dealing with facts or if you're getting all of your information from AM radio or Fox News or One American News.
		And basically what those sources do is they're hosted by paid liars.
		Now, let me give you a good example to make sure everyone understands.
		I know exactly what I'm talking about here.
		And it's not going to the left, but going to the industries and looking up the information.
		If you'll go out and take the time to educate yourself on the nuts and bolts of an issue, I've heard many callers talk about the oil and gas thing this morning.
		If you look at Joe Biden, his presidency, December 2024, and you look at the production of oil in America, and you look today, one year later, December 2025, the amount of oil more that the United States is producing is only 3% more.
		Now, if I gave the Republicans that call this show a quiz, I said, is it 500% more, 300% more, 100% more?
		A lot of them would think that, but it's 3% more.
		So you say, well, oil prices are going down, but who's doing that?
		Well, it happens to be Trump's dictator friends, like the people in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, his other dictator friend, Putin.
		All these people have their production on max production to help Trump.
		There's 33% more oil on the market today, and only 3% of it is from America.
		That's because Joe Biden had a pretty pro-oil administration.
		They don't know that.
		So I'm encouraging them in the new year to make a New Year's resolution.
		If you hear it on one of these right-wing stations, take the nuts and bolts of it and go look it up yourself from industry reports.
		Don't listen to what they say.
		Find out for yourself.
		And soon you'll realize this whole nightmare that we're in now is only going to accelerate.
		You know, the big beautiful bill and not extending those COVID tax credits took about $26 billion out of the health care system.
		You saw what it did to prices.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Greg from Clearwater, Florida, Republican, you're next.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thank you for having me on.
		Mike, main economic concern is actually a long-term concern, and that's the long-term stability of Medicare and of Social Security, because I see a cliff coming in whatever magical years, 10 years, 15 years.
		And I've been concerned about this not just recently.
		My representatives were Mike Billarakis and then Gus Billarakis and now currently Ms. Luna.
		And none of them over the years that I've contacted have really looked at, look, have taken a look at the long term.
		Everything's kind of focused on the here and the now.
		And so I'm concerned about my children and my grandchildren who are paying into the systems that basically it's not going to be there for them.
		Or what's going to be for me is a reduced benefit.
		I got my 2.8% increase cost of living, and I'm getting $62 more next year because, like the other gentleman said, Medicare has gone up.
		And I don't see the two parties that are, they're not coordinating in addressing the long-term concerns.
		So that's where I'm coming from.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		I appreciate it.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Cinda from Louisville, Kentucky, an independent, and tell me if I pronounced your name wrong.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		You're next.
unidentified		Yeah, but I'm a Democrat.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you're a Democrat?
unidentified		Yes.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Okay, go ahead.
unidentified		I'm calling because they're talking about all this money, but he took $30 million to build a barroom.
		I mean, who's going to get to use that?
		And plus, he took away Obamacare.
		It really helps a lot of kids with cancer, leukemia, and all of that.
		He doesn't realize that.
		And my next thing is he just needs to be voted out because he's not doing what he said he's going to do.
		And Social Security is supposed to run out of money in, what, 2035?
		So what's going to happen then?
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Karen from Lima, Ohio, a Democrat.
		You're next.
		Karen, your line's open.
		Okay.
		John from California, an independent, you're next.
unidentified		Excuse me.
		Hello.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		Merry Christmas.
		Happy New Year, America.
		My major concern is the price of health care.
		It blows my mind that people don't understand that from the ages of 25 until you're 65, you pay through the nose, you pay insurance companies, and it's very ineffective and very, very expensive.
		The United States has to do what nearly every other civilized country in the world does, which is to have a single payer or government-provided health care.
		Well, in America, from the ages of 25 to 65, you pay through the nose while you're, those are your healthy years.
		And then when you turn 65, your health care company can legally kick you off, and you go on government-provided health care during your disease-prone years.
		This is what the reality is.
		Bernie Sanders and a few others are willing to push legislation forward, which has to happen.
		It will never occur under a Republican administration.
		They have had the House and the Senate and the White House several times and have done nothing, zero.
		All they have done is try to attack the Affordable Care Act because the Republicans are in bed with the insurance companies.
		The Republicans don't care about the middle-class Americans as witnessed by the big, beautiful bill and about how dozens of red states are going to get smacked with the price of the health care.
		The ideas that Trump puts forward are asinine.
		You know, give people a couple of thousand dollars a year towards health care.
		I mean, it's just, it's repulsive.
		It's so damn juvenile.
		So, what we need to do is get in line with the rest of the world and institute single-payer and a national health care exactly like we do with Medicare.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Don from Georgia, a Democrat, you're next.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		Good morning, C-SPAN.
		I applaud you for what you're able to accomplish with your forum here, allowing different voices and opinions and emotions to express themselves.
		Thank you very much for what you do.
		My economic concern coming up in the near future, 26 and beyond, is our treatment of immigrants.
		It affects all aspects of our economy: agricultural, hospitality, and restaurants.
		It is just a fact.
		And crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor, the same as a speeding ticket or any other discretion in our society.
		We do need immigration reform.
		We do need a better pathway of citizenship in this country.
		And we need to recognize their contribution to our America.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		So, here is Peter Morisi, who spoke to Washington Journal and I last week, who talked about how both the president's efforts to deport migrants in this country intertwine with the economy.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Take a listen here.
unidentified		He's wrong.
		It's that simple.
		When he took over, inflation was about 3%.
		And probably when we get some better numbers collected for the month of December and January, it's going to be about the same.
		So there's been no progress on inflation during his administration.
		Now, he's done a number of things which contribute to inflation.
		One of them is create shortages of lower-skilled workers by deporting people who didn't do anything wrong to anybody.
		You might not be aware of this, but the economy grew over the Trump won Biden years 2.5% a year, which is really, really quite impressive.
		And we're adding about 175,000 jobs a month.
		Indigenous population growth and the legal immigration regime we had in place during the Biden years can only give us 90,000 workers a month, additional.
		The rest were basically illegal aliens or undocumented workers.
		Use which language you want.
		But the economy needs more immigrants to function and his extreme policies.
		I certainly, you know, deport people who have committed crimes and seal the border and then let's have measured immigration where we let people come here who fill needs and we can do quite well.
		But these extreme policies make it very difficult to run businesses, to build homes and so forth and push up prices.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		So that was economics professor Peter Morisi on the program a week ago talking about how the deportation efforts by the administration is affecting the economy.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Mike from Peoria, Illinois, a Republican, you're next.
unidentified		Hi, my big concern is the Affordable Care Act.
		That was passed by Democrats without a single Republican vote, and yet the only way it was affordable is if the government started spending a ton of money on it.
		And the subsidies that are going to expire were passed by the Democrats to expire at exactly this time.
jim wright ▲ ● ▼		And to blame the Republicans for that is just asinine.
unidentified		It's people who do not know what is going on.
		If it's affordable, there shouldn't be any need to have massive amounts of money thrown at it.
		And it should be, if you're going to give it to people, give it to the people, not the hospitals, because it's their tax money that they're giving away.
		As for illegal immigrants, they're a large drain on the economy, but they also do some things.
		If you go to Mexico to visit Mexico, when you fill out your form, if you're planning on staying there a while, you have to prove that you're going to be an addition to society, not go on welfare and all of that other stuff.
		If we apply the same standards that Mexico treats us to go into their country, then that would seem to be fair.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Wayne from Rhode Island and Independent, you're next.
unidentified		Giving the way.
unidentified		And so Julie?
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Wayne, are you there?
unidentified		Yes, I'm here.
unidentified		Okay.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		What's your top economic concern?
unidentified		My top economic concern is, and thank you for having me on the program, is the United States hasn't realized that health care is not health care, it's industry care.
		We are slaves to the industry that supposedly takes care of us.
		If you look back, I'm a baby boomer, so I was born in the 60s.
		And when I started working, I contributed to healthcare.
		I am now in my 60s, and the system is set up where you contribute with the hopes that when you get to a certain age, you will be able to utilize what you have contributed.
		Unfortunately, because of the way this country is set up and society here has actually assimilated to immigrants instead of immigrants assimilated to the society here, we have now drained a system that was set up to provide.
		And until we understand in this country that greed shouldn't rule the day, your ability to help human beings should be the order of the day, we may be able to process these things a lot more efficiently.
		But unfortunately, when you give into a system that is mismanaged, you will never be able to get that.
		And when the system puts you in a position that by the time you get what you put into the system, you may not live to receive your due reward, these things happen.
		And the other gentleman that spoke about grocery prices, and he said he bought T-bone steaks for $15, I don't know where he's buying them from because the last time I went to the supermarket, which was a couple of days ago, just to fill up the top pot of the cot, which you usually put your child in to ride them around in the store to get food, you'll spend at least $100 to $200.
		You can't even put anything in the other part of the carriage because if you do, you'll have to put things back.
		We're not understanding that we're allowing this country to get greedier and greedier as it goes on.
		I don't care if you're a Democrat, Republican, or Independent.
		We haven't figured it out yet.
		You don't put labels on people.
		We're people.
		We put labels on other things and we handle them.
		But we're not doing that.
		And I just wanted to bring that to the forefront.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Let's take a listen to Mark Zandi, who last month on CNBC described his views on the economic outlook for the rest of the year and, of course, next year.
unidentified		Well, it's been okay.
		I mean, if you look at it, you got retail sales for the month of September.
		That looked pretty tired.
		But abstracting from the ups and downs of the monthly data, it feels like real consumer spending is kind of two percent-ish, which is kind of right down the middle of the strike zone.
		But that hides a lot of differences.
		The folks at the top end of the income and wealth distribution are doing quite well.
		Spending is very strong.
		Folks in the lower parts and the middle parts of the income and wealth distribution, not so much.
		I mean, just to get to Sarah, just to give you a statistic: you know, looking back since the pandemic, if you look at the spending by folks in the bottom 80% of the income distribution, it's just barely kept pace with the rate of inflation.
		So, their real spending, their real purchasing power has gone nowhere.
		All of the action has been at the high in the top 20%.
		That's where all the growth has been.
		So, yeah, the aggregate number is okay.
		In the middle of the distribution, you don't see a whole lot, but if you look at the distribution and the tails of the distribution, you see some pretty big differences.
		So, what do you see as the primary reason or driver?
		Well, I mean, the affordability crisis has been long in the making.
		I mean, I think the pandemic and the Russian war go a long way to explain the higher prices for everything from food and health care, rent, child care, elder care.
		But I think the thing that's really brought this back to the fore as an issue is the acceleration in inflation that we've seen since the beginning of the year and the weakening in the job market and income and wages since the beginning of the year.
		And I think that all goes back to deglobalization.
		It goes back to the tariffs and immigration policy.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		So, that was Mark Zandy on CNBC last month talking about his views on the economic outlook and, of course, wealth disparities.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Carl from Los Angeles, Democrat, your line is open.
unidentified		Hello there.
		How are you doing?
		Hey, look, Mike Grifi is about reparations.
		We need to get that reparations started up in the White House for black folks.
		Down here in Los Angeles, California, right now, we're going through a crisis right now with our mayor stopping this homeless program from Section 8 housing vouchers, putting seniors out on the sidewalks.
		And with the gas prices the way they are right now, talking about they going down, how many oil tankers is Donald Trump going to rip off and steal and divert from Venezuela to the United States?
		That's the only reason why gas prices are going down right now.
		Some of these Europeans need to take a look at what's really going on in the United States.
		It's hard times out here for everyone.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		And just a programming note: President Trump will meet with Ukrainian President Zelensky in Mar-a-Lago at his West Palm Beach resort later on this week, later on today at 1 p.m. to discuss the ongoing war in Ukraine and try to come to some sort of agreement on a peace plan.
		C-SPAN will be covering that at 1 p.m.
		Thomas, Newport, Florida, a Republican?
		Your line is open.
unidentified		Yes, I would like to respond to the gentleman who talked about reformations.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Reparations?
unidentified		Yes.
		He blames it on Donald Trump when he doesn't realize that the president of California is David Newsom, and he needs to get his priorities straight.
		Another thing is that the Democrats pretend to be normal, you know, normal people, but they are so abnormal, it's ridiculous.
		And people and the media, all they do is pretend that they're normal, like, you know, the Democrats against Republicans.
		Well, we have some bad Republicans.
		However, we have Democrats that are all absolutely crazy.
		All right.
		What they want to do to children.
		And then they all voted.
		Most of them voted to, you know, have the kids.
		Well, I don't want to mention it on TV, but little kids are just transgender.
		I mean, come on, right?
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Harold from Tennessee, a Democrat.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		You're next.
unidentified		Yes, ma'am.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		Well, don't really know where to start at.
		The big issue is going to be insurance.
		You know, but they took these substances away.
		This is going to hurt people very bad.
		At first, people talk about the gas prices coming down.
		Well, the big reason the gas price is coming down.
		That Donald Trump son-in-law went over to Saudi Arabia and got $2 billion, and now he's going to leave Saudi Arabia's oil in the United States, which is going to kill our own oil and gas industry.
		First, beef prices coming down.
		Yes, they're going to come down because Donald Trump turned Argentina loose to ship beef in here.
		People, I grow cattle.
		The quality of beef that you'll get out of there will be sick cattle.
		They'll let anything go.
		They don't have an FDA to inspect this stuff like we do.
		But Forest, the big thing is going to be insurance.
		Everybody talks about these immigrants and stuff.
		But wonder what kind of Christmas those little kids they sent back, loaded up and shipped back across there.
		Well, what kind of Christmas they had?
		We run around, we talk about we're a Christian nation and stuff.
		Well, you know, those little kids probably went back to a fair to the fairy decent place, and a lot of them went back over there and probably been prostituted out or whatever.
		But can you imagine to leave a normal home in the United States and you send them back to a hellhole like that?
		I don't care if they send the ones back, it needs to be sent back.
		But you need to think this Christmas time, what shape is those little little kids in when they could have had a normal Christmas right here in the United States.
		And I guess that's all I got to say, and I appreciate you people a lot.
		Thank you.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Turning quickly to an article from KFF where the headline is as ACA marketplace premium payments would more than double on average next year if enhanced premium tax credits expire.
		That was from September 2025.
		And it says that Affordable Care Act and enhanced premium tax credits are set to expire at the end of the year.
		And if you go a little bit further down, it said that the enhanced tax credits both increase the amount of financial assistance already eligible ACA marketplace enrollees receive, as well as middle-income employees with income above 400% of the federal poverty guidelines newly eligible for premium tax credits.
		It says that enhanced tax credits work by furthering lower the share of income ACA marketplace enrollees pay for a plan.
		Now, up next on Washington Journal, one of our Holiday Authors Week series continues this morning.
		Nine days of authors from across the political spectrum whose books shine the spotlight on an important aspect of American life.
		This morning's featured author is Constitutional Law Professor and Civil Rights Attorney Gloria Brown Marshall discussing her book, A Protest History of the United States.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Past president nominated.
		Why are you doing this?
		This is outrageous.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		This is a kangaroo corpse.
unidentified		Fridays, C-SPAN presents a rare moment of unity.
		Ceasefire, where the shouting stops and the conversation begins.
		Politico Playbook chief correspondent and White House Bureau Chief Dasha Burns is host of Ceasefire, bringing two leaders from opposite sides of the aisle into a dialogue.
		Ceasefire on the network that doesn't take sides.
		Fridays at 7 and 10 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN.
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jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Washington Journal's annual Holiday Authors Week series continues this morning.
		Nine days of conversations with America's top writers from across the political spectrum on a variety of public policy and political topics.
		This morning's featured author is Constitutional Law Professor and Civil Rights Attorney Gloria Brown Marshall discussing her book, A Protest History of the United States.
		Gloria, thank you so much for being with us this morning.
unidentified		Thank you.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		So let's just dive right in.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Can you first explain to our audience what prompted you to write this book and why now?
unidentified		I was prompted by the fact that there were people who didn't believe that protest was still effective as a mechanism for social change.
		They thought it was so 20th century civil rights movement, women's movement, and not something that would be useful in the 21st century to support progress when it comes to social justice.
		And I disagreed with them and I wanted to make a legal argument at first.
		And then I realized that protest is not just the legal part of our country's history.
		It's the fabric within our country's history that could be told through the protests and protesters.
		And so I decided to go through history and look at protesters and protesters, protests and protesters over 500 years, just selecting those.
		And then I realized I needed to actually interview different social justice activists and others.
		And so I have interviews and then I took the extraordinary step to add memoir because I wanted people to realize within their families, they have folks who have protested in small and large ways.
		And so we have to expand the idea of what protest is.
		So it became a book that is an interdisciplinary history book, unusual in many ways.
		But I think the storytelling within the book is what allows us to see that each one of us has something we can do to keep the ball moving forward when it comes to social justice in this country.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		And you write in your book, Gloria, that, quote, protest helps connect current social justice issues with the past battles for freedom, equality, fair wages, the end of wars, and desegregation.
		This historical context is crucial for readers, for activists, and for those questioning the forces aligned with against progress, forces that fear inevitable change.
		Their use of violence by even seemingly stayed members of the status quo is evidence of a simmering rage against the inclusion of others.
		It is the lives and livelihoods lost in this war that propels the writing of this book.
		To your point, I wonder if you can explain for us who or what are those forces that are effectively against change.
unidentified		It can be any person, and this is so interesting.
		An institution, the government, we get to this point where the status quo is something that people want to defend, and that could be a system defending it.
		It could be a group of whomever.
		So often, for example, immigrants come into this country and they gain a foothold and become part of the status quo and now defend the country's status quo system against change when it comes to other immigrants who come into the country.
		And that's been a pattern and practice in this nation for a long time.
		And that's why my books are over hundreds of years because I want to see the pattern in practice.
		And so it could be the idea that, well, the country is good just the way it is.
		Let's not change anything.
		And that could come from any group.
		It could come from any system.
		But it's the idea that change is scary and the people bringing the change therefore must be scary.
		And therefore, we have to fight against that change.
		And then when the change eventually happens, we act as though it was always there, that it was just something that fell out of the sky.
		And that's why I like to say that Santa Claus did not give us the progress we have.
		We could have laws on the books, but then those laws, if they don't include everyone, then those people who are on the fringes, who are not included or need to have laws that include them, are going to force themselves against the status quo.
		The status quo, whomever that might be, is going to say, no, we want this world, our society, our community to stay exactly where it is with no change whatsoever.
		That's when you see the conflict between those within the status quo, however that may be defined, and those people who want to change and expand or move forward in a different way.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Now, before we continue, I want to invite our viewers to join in on that call on this conversation.
		Republicans, your line is 202-748-8001.
		Democrats, your line is 202-748-8000.
		Independents, your line is 202-748-8002.
		Gloria, you said initially that you wrote this book in response to people feeling somewhat discouraged about the impact of protests.
		I wonder if you can describe what the things that you were hearing and whether or not you've seen that continue until now.
unidentified		Well, I would hear protest doesn't work.
		People protest and then nothing happens.
		I see the police beating up protesters.
		You know, there's so much against the people who want to change things that it's not going to be effective because people are too scared to protest.
		I mean, there are ways in which I've had some people say, well, protesters are just somebody who, you know, they're just malcontents and they'll never be satisfied.
		And the last one that really got me was, you know, people protest all the time, but I don't see anything that comes from it.
		So personally, they don't see something coming from protests.
		And so therefore, why should they contribute?
		Why should they do anything?
		They feel like it's, you know, people protest all the time, but then nothing comes of it.
		So why waste your time?
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen protests become maybe less frequent because of, you know, this kind of malaise or discouragement around the impact of it?
unidentified		I've seen it come in waves.
		And as waves come for based on certain things that trigger a protest, and then other times people will sit back and for some reason, if it doesn't personally affect them, if it doesn't hit something that is in them that says that I have to do something differently, then they will watch almost like it's a reality show, watch things happening among them.
		But it's always usually a very small fraction of people who actually protest.
		As protests gain more speed and come more frequently and the crowds become larger, it's because there's been an expansion of those who have been triggered by certain events who believe that their voices are not being heard through the regular channels and therefore they have to do other things.
		And when we talk about protests, as I said before, protests can be the going out into the street to protest, but protests can come in diverse ways.
		And that's why I thought that in my book, A Protest History of the United States, that I would speak to different types of protests as well, but to empower people.
		And I think that's important because people need to know that not only do they have a constitutional right to protest, but they also have this sense that protest is patriotic as opposed to people calling protesters unpatriotic.
		So there's this always a propaganda war that takes place when people finally move and start to want to put their voices with collective with others to protest.
		And there's always the fear that they're going to be banished, they're going to be seen differently.
		And there's always violence sometimes when it comes to protesters.
		And the violence doesn't have to be a physical violence.
		It could be people believe they might lose their job if they stand up or they might be shunned by church members or other people in their community.
		So there's this sense that there's got to be something that really moves someone before they take action.
		And protest leaders are someone who need to inspire that movement and keep it going.
		And sometimes when you don't have protest leaders, that's another reason why the protests kind of, you know, fall away and the protesters stay home instead of speaking their minds in public forums.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		And before we turn to our cause, I wonder if you can just walk us through what are some of the other forms of protest that you outline in your book.
unidentified		Well, I look at selective buying as a form of protest.
		I use a phrase I attribute to Nina Simone.
		It might not be her, but I like to use this phrase that, you know, learn to leave the table when love is no longer being served.
		Meaning, if you're not respected at a restaurant or grocery store or a corporation is acting in ways against your values, then maybe that product from that corporation should not be where you place your money.
		Are working very hard for our money, and we need to know that that money brings power on our side too.
		It's just not the power of the corporations.
		So, when we decide as individuals not to give our money to a particular store or business or corporation, then we're sending a protest against what that corporation or store is doing or how they're treating us.
		Protest votes.
		People can vote for or against.
		I always like to say you can always unelect someone if you feel that they're not the best person for the job or they're not representing your values in the job.
		I think that there are people who protest by sending in op-ed letters to the editor.
		There are people who protest yes in the streets, but people protest by signing petitions or sending a letter to their corporate headquarters or to their politician representing their area.
		People join organizations or leave organizations based on protests, coming together to say that I'm going to join this organization and together we can do more.
		Artists are protesters.
		There's so many protest songs and artwork, whether or not it's sculpture or painting, dance.
		There are so many ways in which people have participated in sit-ins and a sit-in.
		You don't see that often, but that's a form of protest in which people go into a place and sit down in a nonviolent way and say, We're not moving because we want to bring attention to a particular issue.
		So, we've had journalists who have, you know, decided that they're going to go forward with a story when someone has said, No, you can't, and figure out ways in which they can tell the story of the protesters and fight against their editors or fight in the rooms behind closed doors when it's decided what's going to be shown on television, on television news, or printed, in which they take a stand.
		So, there are protests that take place that we know nothing about.
		There are individuals on their jobs.
		I always like to say, for young people, if you're a young man, for example, in high school and you hear horrible things being said by another group of people about another group of people, or, you know, if you just say, no, you know what, that's not cool.
		Don't do that.
		Or, you know, we're going to be at our dinner tables and holiday tables.
		We just went through two major holidays in which there are going to be people at the table saying things that, you know, perhaps go against your values.
		You don't have to have a screaming match, but you can stand up and say, you know, I don't believe that.
		That goes against my values as a Christian, as a whatever.
		You know, so I believe that, you know, I don't want to hear that at my dinner table.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Who knows?
unidentified		There are ways in which, individually in small and large places, protests take place in which people take a stand, especially about their values.
		But I think one of the major ways we think of protests would be the people in the street coming together, whether in large or small groups, with signs, bullhorns, et cetera, saying that there's something that the government is doing that we don't appreciate and want to change.
		But I'll give this one last example that people may not think of as protest, but I do.
		And I have a chapter on it.
		And I think joining a union is protest.
		If you're not being treated well on the job, and there are ways in which you can collectively come together in a union, being a part of a union was something that was highly considered protest of the way people were treated on their jobs and the amount of money they were being paid to stand up against the employer was seen as a part of protest.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's turn to our calls.
		Dawn from New Orleans, an independent.
		Your line is open.
unidentified		Yes, good morning to you and your good guest, the professor of law.
		And she was touching on, very much said what I was going to ask about photography.
		And, you know, for instance, Frederick Douglass took portraits and Harry Tubman had portraits painted on him as a form of protest against the caricature of black folk.
		And when you talk about protests, as you were alluding to with the union, protest to me is an obligation of against a substandard level, a substandard society.
		When you protest, you're protesting a substandard criticism or spectrum of society in fair housing as a protest.
		So I'm going to say one thing.
		I'm going to ask you a question about precision of the Constitution in a legal form, in legal matter.
		What is the precision of drafting of the Constitution that was looking forward as well as addressing the times that it was drafted?
		Well, when we think about the Constitution, which was drafted in 1787, it doesn't contain rights and protections for individual people.
		James Madison, considered the father of the U.S. Constitution, said that if you ratify this, he said this to these people who were there in Philadelphia, if you ratify this Constitution, which gives us a formal centralized government, then there will be protections against that government.
		There was fear at the time when it was ratified in 1789 of the government they had created.
		They did not want a king, but they did want this experiment, which was the form of government.
		So the First Amendment gives those protections and, of course, the Bill of Rights altogether.
		But the First Amendment speaks to the people's right to protest and stand up against their own government if they believe their government is not following the true path.
		And of course, that true path is always redefined again and again.
		But of course, the freedom of speech and the freedom of peaceable assembly.
		But the last line of the First Amendment is that we have the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
		And we never really get to that last line when we're discussing the First Amendment.
		We have the right to petition, which is to ask the government for a redress.
		And redress means to remedy our grievances.
		And of course, we know a grievance is a complaint.
		So we have in our First Amendment right to say to the government, there's something that you're doing wrong and we want it changed.
		And so when we hear about anti-protests language, you know, and protesters being called criminals and negative names, that's always been a part.
		So we have two aspects of our government in our country.
		One part of it is to have the country be a country in which people rise up for the Declaration of Independence, which will be in an anniversary, 250th anniversary, in just a few days to where we are now.
		There have been protests the entire time.
		But as soon as one group comes in, as I said, with a status quo, based on protests, they get established.
		Now they don't want anyone else to change anything.
		And then that conflict comes in between the status quo, where we have the right to have our government, you know, protect us.
		But people believe that the government is just ours and it should stop trying to do anything differently once we're established in our places.
		But that right to petition the government for the next group that says I'm petitioning and I want a government to do something differently.
		So I want to push forward for that.
		So that's something that's, when you talk about constitutional rights, it's always been debated.
		Like what side should the government be on?
		The side of the status quo or the side of the right of the petition people to petition the government to change.
		So that's a conflict that is read in that, but rarely discussed.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		James from New York, a Democrat, your line is open.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I want to say thank you to CSPAN for bringing Gloria Brown Marshall.
		I watch her or listen to her every Tuesday.
		And I want to give a shout out for WBAI.
		She brings forth a show that is so enlightening that it should be universal so the whole world can hear some of the things she brings up.
		Protest, she speaks it all the time, all the time.
		WBAI, all the time.
		Thank you so much.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Tony from Buffalo, New York, a Democrat, you're next.
unidentified		Yes, protesting can be dangerous to your health.
		During the first Trump administration, if you recall, he asked Mark Expert if people could be shot in the legs for protesting while he was in front of a church with a Bible.
		Now, if you don't think protesting can be dangerous, think about that.
		The president of the United States asking his secretary if they could shoot people in the legs while they're protesting his presence.
		Oh, I truly believe protests can be dangerous.
		When you are actually challenging someone's status quo, when they believe that their country or their community is great just the way it is, and someone says, no, it's not, that by itself is something that really brings up an ire in people where they can act out.
		But when you have leaders in the government, whether or not that's the mayor or the police chief or the president of the United States, actually saying that the protesters are wrong or criminals or it's an illegal protest, that motivates people to act out even more.
		And yeah, protesting has always been dangerous.
		As we started with the Declaration of Independence going forward, to act against the status quo is something that triggers people to behave in violent ways, especially leaders of the government.
		If they believe that, you know, they don't want anyone to question them, then yes, that's, you know, you think about the civil rights movement, you think about the people who died during the anti-war movement, the anti-Vietnam War movement.
		So one of my chapters in a protest history of the United States is on the anti-war movements.
		So yes, even with trying to form unions, I always try to remind people that these unions didn't fall out of the sky.
		Santa Claus did not give us these rights.
		We might have rights on paper sometimes, and then you have to force the government or force a corporation to actually make those rights a reality.
		Protest, I believe, makes those rights a reality.
		And so when people formed a union, there were lives lost.
		I had the opportunity to travel to West Virginia and focus on the protesters or people who were joining unions and trying to join unions.
		And they put their lives on the line.
		They were evicted, sent out in the cold, their families forced out of the town because they wanted to join a union.
		And there were gunfights around, you know, people in these towns against the union and those who were for the union and the people who were hired by the corporations to keep union representatives out of these towns.
		So yes, I agree.
		It continues to be violent, especially when government leaders are provoking people and making people feel that they have a justification, a right to harm a protester because they're saying something that the government doesn't like.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		And I want to ask you quickly, because your book, of course, spans 500 years, which or how did you choose which protest to focus on and illustrate in your book?
unidentified		It was very difficult.
		My editor and I went back and forth regarding the structure of the book, what should be included, how we should include it, because we wanted protests as well as protesters to get a different viewpoint.
		We started with Powhatan, Chief Powatan, and when the Europeans arrived in Virginia, which is the beginning of the country, it's not the Pilgrims.
		In 1607 is when the country began and the arrival of England in its settlement, the Jamestown settlement.
		And so I wanted to include different aspects that were known and then bring something different to what we thought we knew, as well as to give more attention to someone who was probably quite famous during their time period, like A. Philip Randolph, for example, in the Pullman Porters formation of the union.
		But give us a slight variation on what that person did, Tom Hayden, for example, University of Michigan.
		And people know him for what he did around the anti-Vietnam War protests in Michigan, but they may not be as familiar with his work that he did in Newark, New Jersey.
		So we went through and decided we would have representative of protests and representatives of people who were protesters on different issues.
		So it was very difficult.
		And the book became longer than it was supposed to be.
		And I know my editor and my publisher were like, please, we have to leave somebody out.
		But I feel like there are so many people we could have added that every week I think of someone else.
		Well, if only I could have added that person, then the book would have been too long and then people would not have wanted to read it.
		But I've gotten such great feedback about the way it's interdisciplinary.
		That includes my great-great-grandmother, Eliza, who was enslaved and the protests that she made during the time period of enslavement in the 1800s.
		So it was difficult, but I had great minds who helped me narrow things down and select people whom you know, for example, Martin Luther King, of course.
		But when we talk about how Martin Luther King died, many people forget that it was in Memphis.
		And it was a protest around the sanitation workers wanting to unionize because their working conditions were so horrific that people don't remember that part.
		And that's why I wanted to kind of remind people of those aspects of a life that we may think is very familiar, but also bring back into the light those who had sacrificed so much and probably have been forgotten by now.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Mary Jean from Brooklyn, a Democrat, you're next.
unidentified		Hello, Gloria.
		Hello.
		Hello, Gloria.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		We can hear you all.
		Mary Jean.
		What's your comment or question?
unidentified		Oh, okay.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		We met a long time ago, Black, Black, John, Black Child Development Organization.
		I wanted to ask you or to point out how sometimes the leaders of the United States, the President of the United States, have asked or implied or suggested to civil rights leaders that they get in the streets to give them some of the power or some of the oomph that they needed to get certain things done.
		Can you speak to that?
		Like, for example, Johnson asking in terms of getting some help with getting the Voting Rights Act passed.
		Yes, thank you.
		And thank you for raising Black Child Development.
		Yes, sometimes especially President Johnson needed to have the Congress pushed and the power for the president to say that this is legislation that must take place.
		And so to bring together legislation, litigation, and protest is one way, that trifecta that moves us toward social justice.
		And we need to understand that as we're moving toward this social justice, there are many pitfalls.
		There is fits and starts.
		There are ways in which politicians need to have a voice outside of the political spectrum.
		Many people think that politicians can do this by themselves, but if they don't see the will of the people, and protest shows the will of the people.
		So when President Johnson was meeting with protest leaders like Martin Luther King and wanting to have like something like show that the will of the people want to have voting rights, that need that this country needs to have voting rights.
		But Johnson knew, coming from Texas, being poor, he understood prejudice and he understood the undermining of the black vote.
		But as a politician, he needed to have those people who were willing to go out into the streets to voice their demand for voting rights in a peaceful way or nonviolent way.
		And when I say nonviolent, this is something that happens too often when it comes to especially the civil rights movement.
		Nonviolent means that even when violence is shown to the protester, they're responding in a nonviolent way.
		Because going back to what was asked before about violence, violence has too often been a part of what society has shown to protesters to show their disapproval of your actually questioning our society.
		So violence has been used and there have been too many instances for basic rights for people where violence has been used.
		So these protesters during the civil rights movement for voting rights knew that they were putting themselves in jeopardy, but they had a plan.
		They had a strategy.
		They had a goal.
		And I think that's what sometimes people forget about effective protesting, that you need to have the plan, you need to have the strategy, you need to have the goals so that when you are putting the protests together in a safe way during the day, not at night, because horrible things happen to protesters during the night, but even during the day with the march across the Edmund Pettis Bridge, as we know that bloody Sunday in 1965,
		how they were attacked and they were attacked by the sheriff and these deputized thugs for the most part, who attacked men, women, and children on that bridge as they were peacefully crossing the bridge in a form of protest.
		And that act and so many other sacrifices of life and liberty that had taken place led up to the signing of the Voting Rights Act.
		But I want my book, A Protest History of the United States, to remind people of those sacrifices.
		As I said, these rights did not fall out of the sky.
		You could have the right for free speech, voting rights on paper.
		But as Dr. Martin Luther King said, you know, we want you to be true to what you said on paper.
		What did you say in the Constitution?
		And so protest then takes the rights that are on the paper and they make them a reality by forcing people to actually live up to what the rights are, live up to what the law says.
		And so you have the protest to create the law in the first place.
		Then you have the protest to make the laws a reality.
		And too often people become so tired after all these protests and it's such a traumatic event, one after another, that people forget that it did require that level of sacrifice.
		And that's why I wanted protest history of the United States to remind people of the sacrifices that were made for us to have our rights in reality and the continued need to contribute to that progress.
		And so whether or not it's through pushing the president and pushing politicians of any level to say, you know, these are the rights that we need or the rights that we already have on paper, we need to make them a reality in our individual day-to-day lives.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		And Gloria, you mentioned violence.
		In your book, you write that for urban blacks, impatient with the pacifying rhetoric of whites and the black elite, the LA uprising and those that have followed it have all but replaced civil disobedience as the primary method of protest.
		On the other hand, some experts argue that violent movements are counterproductive and that nonviolent protests are more effective in achieving social change.
		Obviously, in that passage, you referenced the 1992 Rodney King riots in LA.
		But I wonder just as a tactic for demonstrators and for protesters themselves, where you come down on violence versus nonviolence.
unidentified		Well, that's why I'm glad we had an opportunity to have a caller speak about violence.
		Violence in one form or another, as I said before, it could be the violence, physical violence.
		It could be losing a job.
		It could be being shunned in your community, your church, synagogue, wherever it may be, treated differently, treated poorly.
		But here's the thing: nonviolent civil disobedience means that when a person decides that they are going to protest and they are then assaulted, that they will not assault the person who did it.
		They will not fight back.
		They will not behave, respond in a violent way.
		That is nonviolent protest.
		They are not going to walk into a protest with the idea that they're going to use violence to get what they need.
		But that means that violence is happening.
		It's just not taking place on the part of the protester.
		So when we talk about nonviolent protests, we have to be very clear that that is also a philosophy.
		So a nonviolent philosophy was one that was taught.
		And I was amazed when I had a chance to travel to Selma, Alabama this past April to speak with people who participated in the protests there for voting rights.
		And they went to classes, high school students took classes on Saturday in nonviolent protests.
		And those students who were teenagers and could not believe or act in a nonviolent way if they had been assaulted decided that they were not going to participate in the protest because they knew that philosophy was not for them.
		So we need to understand that nonviolence is not something that just, you know, people just take on.
		I think it's something that we have to think through.
		The other side of it is that there have been protests in which people have decided that they're going to use, proactively use violence.
		And those people who decide to proactively use violence are those who believe that that's the only way that they can make a change in society.
		So those are two different aspects of protests, but they both involve violence.
		One in which a person is not responding violently when violence is used against them while they protest.
		And the other is people who proactively use violence.
		In a lot of the urban uprisings that have taken place, and we've seen this with Michael Brown and some with George Floyd, you know, in which people, some have been infiltrators who have infiltrated nonviolent protests and acted in violent ways.
		But others have been those who have said that they're going to respond with violence if they are attacked by police officers or attacked by somebody who doesn't believe that they should have the right to protest.
		So there are different categories when it comes to violence.
		And I wanted to make sure that we were able to see those different categories.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Tony from Pennsylvania and Independent, you're next.
unidentified		Yeah, great conversation today.
		I like a quote from Malcolm X.
		He says, if you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.
		And I think our guest today was really talking about the status quo.
		The status quo owns the newspapers, right?
		They own the messaging.
		And so very often everything gets turned on its head, like Malcolm X was talking about.
		When I think about college campuses and I think about what happened to the students that were protesting a genocide, how they were actually labeled anti-Semitic, right?
		And what they were doing was they were protesting the genocide of a Semitic people.
		And our media turned that on its head and attacked them, calling them anti-Semitic.
		And so I think we need to be very careful about what Malcolm X said.
		And then the guest talked about some other things that I thought were just delightful, delicious, and sorely missing from our conversations when we think about protests.
		Those being fair wages, anti-war, unionization.
		So often the rhetoric in this country is just around social justice, these sort of empty, they don't improve the material conditions of the people that are suffering injustice.
		They're more academic, elite, comfortable white people positions.
		And I think about like the no kings.
		It's just so empty.
		It's a PR stunt.
		It's a hollowed, empty, it'll result in nothing.
		And so I think we need to get back to real civil disobedience, the idea of a general strike combined with a protest where power resides.
		And yes, if you're going against the status quo, they will always be violent towards you.
		It's never the people that are protesting that are violent.
		It's always the system, the status quo, the government that brings violence.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		A lot in that question, Gloria, but I wonder if you can first tackle when the caller brought up the protests against the war in Gaza.
unidentified		Well, this is, I want to bring that as well as something else up that he said.
		Even though there were no kings protests, the 7 million people protesting in the streets, estimated, we need to understand that when somebody decides they're going to take a stand, it might not be exactly the way we want them to take a stand, but that stand that they take could in some way trigger some violent acts.
		So I always like to give support to people, whether or not it's a rally where you don't have any real disruption because protests do disrupt or to bring attention to the issue.
		But also, I think that the continued protest, we have to get the engine moving.
		And it may start with rallies that are more comfortable for certain people before it goes into more intense protesting.
		And my research has shown that that has been part of what has happened: that to start off in small ways and then you gain force over time.
		And so we want to make sure we support those people who are coming out in those small ways now because the protesting that's going on is going to get larger and probably become more disruptive later.
		I think that those people who were protesting, Gaza, you had students who are protesting the issue of whether or not there was a genocide going on in Gaza, whether or not Israel was wrong and how it was, the over-response to the attack that took place that was a horrific attack.
		This issue of anti-Semitism, I believe anti-Semitism is real, just as I believe sexism is real and racism is real.
		And, you know, there's so many different prejudices against people with accents and all of these different ways in which oppression works.
		I know that the status quo will control the propaganda from their standpoint.
		But as we had back in the civil rights movement, for example, from the 1900s going forward, we had the established white press, but we also had the black press.
		So that the press for the different communities, people had their own newspapers back then in their own communities, in their own languages.
		So you had a Spanish press, you had other places where people could get their messages across that weren't just based on what the status quo's message was going to be.
		And I think the loss of certain media, certain print platforms, but the rise of the ability to go to social media and see on YouTube and other places different opinions.
		They don't have that established feel.
		They don't have the checks and balances, I think, sometimes for the information.
		But we're seeing with some of the legacy press and legacy media that we're not getting sometimes a clear picture, especially since so many corporations have bought the media and now they're trying to undermine the ability of that media to even cover protests in ways that are balanced.
		And that's why I said early on that you have to have journalists in the room in that editorial discussion who stand up, who are going to have to make clear that they're going to cover things and cover them in a way that's not based on what the corporate headquarters is controlling.
		And this is very new for our media in this age to have corporations actually have such power over what's put in the press, but having conservatism and status quo based articles in the newspaper when it comes to protests is something that's very old.
		From the very beginning, you have to have what they call the radical or the other types of newspapers that are going to cover protesters in a way that's more balanced.
		The unions used to have newspapers that were read by many people within the unions and outside the unions that would cover what was going on.
		And so I wonder where are the unions now?
		Where are the powerhouse places that used to have the ability and the type of institutional knowledge that we could rely on when it comes to news to be able to tell us what's going on?
		And I'll give you one quick example.
		And that example would be Senator Kelly, who was talking about people in the military not following illegal orders.
		Well, within the Army Times, which is the media for the Army, you know, one of the media used by the Army, and I am a subscriber to the Army Times, they had before Senator Kelly said any of this, they had in the Army Times that soldiers should not follow illegal orders.
		So it was actually in that media, the same thing that was, but Senator Kelly was saying was in that media, but how many people actually saw it?
		How many people read it?
		So they don't have the distribution to get their word out.
		So too often the status quo has a distribution, they have the money, they have the deep pockets, and they have the establishment of the audience.
		So you could have others discussing something that's very important that the general public should know about protests, because I think what Senator Kelly is doing is a form of protest by saying, you know, this is how I'm standing up to the government.
		But they don't have the same bandwidth to get those words and messages out to the general population.
		So it's always been that way, that balance.
		But the more people who are able to join the protest and therefore wherever they stand, they can help spread the word.
		That's how the protester gets their message out.
		And when it comes to these opposition to what the government is saying or what the established corporation or other established news is saying.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Joseph from Vermont, a Republican, you're next.
unidentified		Yeah, I'd like to ask your guests.
sheriff richard mack ▲ ● ▼		In researching for her book, she's looked at 500 years of protests in the United States.
unidentified		Is there one incident in that book where she feels that the protesters stepped over the line?
		Or is this all about how the police cause all the problems?
		There were a few steps, you know, during the Civil Rights Movement, for example, there were protesters who the Supreme Court said they should not be protesting on government property.
		And so the protesters lost the case before the U.S. Supreme Court because they said they were stepping over the line when it comes to where protests could take place.
		During the anti-war movement, you know, we know that people who burned their draft card in an act of protests were seen as people who were violating the law by burning their draft cards.
		There were ways in which you can protest the war, but that was not one in which they were going to allow those protests to happen.
		I would say during the time period of unionization and even past that time period, when the early unionization, when corporations or the company, or, you know, used to call them the barons of coal would say that, you know, you can't have people who are trying to form unions on our property and that we have a right to fire somebody who is,
		if they signed a labor contract that said that they were called yellow dog contracts, but they signed a contract that said that you cannot join a union and you join a union anyway, those people were fired and they could not actually get their jobs back.
		And because, as they said, you know, I owe my soul to the company store, so they would not have a home, they would not have a church family anymore, they would be evicted from even having a tent on the land that was owned by the corporation because the corporation said you can't have a tent on our land because that's our land.
		I think that there have been times in which people are arrested for protesting, the women's movement, for example, even the early parts of the women's movement, when they would chain themselves to a fence back then, not just one that took place with the Gaza movement when people did that.
		But during that time period, you know, that fence is private property.
		And so if they chained themselves to the fence, they would be arrested.
		So you had these types of civil disobedience in which people knew that they were breaking the law and they broke the law, they thought, for a just reason.
		And I always put the just in quotes because what one person thinks is a just reason, another person thinks it's not a just reason.
		So destroying private property and people are arrested for destroying private property.
		They went too far.
		And some people have said, well, the Tea Party, the initial Tea Party, during the time period, which was a protest against the price of tea and the protest against England, where they dressed up and threw the tea over the ship, was destruction of private property.
		So we've been destroying private property in protest for a long time, but there are laws against harming somebody else's property.
		And so people have been arrested for destruction of private property.
		And so there's some of the examples in which people went too far in protesting.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		I wonder how you view the January 6th attack on the Capitol.
		I wonder if you view that through that lens.
		Obviously, a lot of the folks who were on the Capitol that day faced some legal repercussions.
		Now they've been pardoned by the president, but they face a lot of backlash after January 6th.
		So I wonder whether or not that fits into what you were just describing.
unidentified		Well, as I said, one person's liberation leaders, another person's terrorists.
		I believe that January 6th was an act of terrorism against the Capitol and that it was a crime that was not about, you know, one person's side, they could say they were protesting what they thought was going to be an illegal action by the government.
		On the other side, people have said that they were tourists and they knew they were not tourists going through there just, you know, during the time period in which the Capitol was closed.
		When they attacked Capitol police, when they scaled the building, when they did these horrible things to the Capitol, defecating in people's offices.
		I mean, when the gentleman asked were there ways in which people have gone too far, if that was a protest and they thought in their minds that was a protest, then it went way too far.
		I don't think they should have been pardoned.
		But what happened in so many ways in which people have protested in the past, when they've gotten arrested, they planned the arrest.
		There used to be jail, no bail, which meant that was during the civil rights movement in the 60s, in which those civil rights activists said that we're going to be arrested.
		We know we're going to be arrested.
		These are acts of civil disobedience, and we're not going to take bail.
		We're going to stay in jail.
		So when people knew they were doing wrong, they knew they were wrong.
		When they were doing these attacks on the Capitol.
		And so, you know, the repercussions then should be: you know, if you're participating in this attack, what do you think the consequences are going to be for doing this type of, you know, destruction against government property?
		And too often, you know, when protesters protest, depending on, as I said, they had a gallows.
		I mean, that's why it's more like a lynch mob in many ways.
		But they had a gallows on the Capitol calling out, you know, Mike Pence and, you know, and looking for Nancy Pelosi to do harm to them.
		So they might have thought themselves protesters, but I think they crossed a very clear line when it comes to protests.
		But I would say that when we're looking at how people respond to government actions, they have responded in many ways that do involve violence.
		And then they have to pay the consequences for it.
		And that's why when we have urban uprisings where people are destroying private property or public property, there have been consequences to those people who are doing that.
		And so having consequences for what happened on January 6th, I think would be normal under normal circumstances, as opposed to something in which people, even if they were provoked or led by the president of the United States thinking that what they were doing was right, in the end, usually there are criminal consequences for things like that.
		Even for protesters, as we said, protesting a death by a police officer in the case of George Floyd, those people ended up having criminal consequences.
		So I think there would and should, and should, you know, we should acknowledge the fact that that is not the norm to have such horrific acts take place on January 6th and have the criminal consequences dismissed.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Dear Jura from Memphis, Tennessee, a Democrat, you're next.
unidentified		Thank you, Gloria.
		This conversation has been so enlightening, and I know time is limited, so I'll get quickly to my question.
		Based on your research, women's rights have been a part of our history.
		And with the overturn of Roe versus Wade, what has your research shown you that women should be doing today, particularly to try and get their reproductive health care rights back?
		Thank you for that question.
		And yes, in my book, A Protest History of the United States, I do have a chapter on women's rights.
		And what women did before was come together as a collective.
		We as women are the majority of the population, but too often we're not acting in a collective way to use our rights.
		We've had some protests that women have used as mechanisms to put forward to the government what they want and what they don't want.
		But we have enough female voters to vote out of office as a protest vote, for example, those who are not supportive of women's rights and vote into office those who are supportive of women's rights.
		So I think we need to be acting as a collective.
		We need to be thinking about policies, state, local, and federal policies that are helpful to women's rights.
		We need to also understand that our vote is very powerful if we use it.
		The high percentage of African-American female voters on the one hand is indicative of what could be done when women come together as a collective.
		And we have organizations like Win With Black Women and others that are looking at the political aspect.
		But I think that until women of different races and educational backgrounds, classism has been a real divider for women.
		And so we need to come together and dismiss some of this classism, some of these language differences and ethnic differences, and see ourselves as the strong women we are and look at what type of policies would be helpful for us and for our families because women hold up half the sky and we need to understand that our communities and our families are better off and stronger when we can work together on policies that will be helpful for women and for families.
		So, studying policies, having teach-ins, for example, coming together to better understand our communal issues and ideas that are enough for us to base our progress on, as opposed to nitpicking and deciding things that are not exactly the same.
		We have right now so many different camps.
		Someone mentioned Gaza.
		So, we have some women who are protesting around Gaza, other protesting around deportation, other protesting around voting rights.
		There are so many different ways in which we are divided.
		And so, I think women as a collective could be so powerful if we could figure out how to come together and what issues are common to us that we can work together and move forward in social progress, especially around our autonomy.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Eric from Duluth, Minnesota, and Independent, you're next.
unidentified		I think that the story brought up by the gentleman from Vermont who called in and asked when have protesters gone too far is very apt.
		And it's interesting that a person from Vermont would bring that up.
		I have my myself have Revolutionary War family history from Vermont, going back to the Battle of Bennington.
		And the bottom line is that when the revolution happened, the people fought vigorously over whether the king had transgressed.
		They fought vigorously over whether they should be Tories or loyal or patriots.
		So, this question led to the Revolutionary War, which would people now look back and say that was a bad move?
		Some still do.
		Some in Vermont think the Green Mountain Boys of Vermont were going too far, Ethan Allen, but some think they were the ultimate patriots.
		Well, you have a situation where a despot or an executive is transgressing by taking more and more and really kind of showing a brashness in taking.
		And then some think he was involved with Epstein, which removes his moral high ground.
		Well, King George in England had those same problems with public relations.
		It wasn't going well without what people thought of him.
		So it led to the revolution, and then we won and we won our independence.
		And I think if people look back now, after 250 years, they'd say, gee, that was a good movement.
		And they didn't just swing signs around.
		They got out to Bunker Hill with, you know, they took on the Redcoats.
		So sometimes it's important enough if you see somebody is transgressing and taking from the people to stand up.
		And it's an apt time to bring that up.
		And it's personal for me because the Vermont story has personal background and I know all about the Green Mountain boys who, you know, they got together in these taverns and decided that the Yorkers, and that was the name for the group that was loyalists coming up from the New York state saying, no, we're going to take that ground.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if you have a response to that, Gloria.
unidentified		I think that it's great that we're looking at the expanded idea of protest, that it's that we can agree and disagree and go around, but protests and whether or not that protest has been done in ways that involved violence or a response to violence with violence, those are part of our country's history.
		When we go back to 1607, we need to understand that when this country began as a settlement from England and the New World, that it was a chartered business, but within those ships were people who wanted freedom.
		So, this conflict between the business aspect of America and the freedom aspect of America continues.
		And in my book, I talk about the United States of America as the United States being the empire builder and America being the part about freedom and liberty and justice and the ability to renew yourself and remake yourself and be someone who can take advantage of opportunities.
		Those two things go head to head all the time in this country.
		The clash between the corporate image, corporate personality culture of this country, and the liberty culture of this country.
		And when that spark happens between the two, then we see, as we did with the Declaration of Independence, it's about commerce.
		When you hear most of when you read it and you hear people talk about the Declaration of Independence, they're talking about liberty.
		But when you read the Declaration of Independence, it's more about business.
		And so you've always had people agree and disagree about what the country is, the personality and culture of the country, but also the role that violence has played, not just within the country, but how violence has been an export of the country.
		And so it's difficult for people to think about how violence has been used against protesters and not realize that the government, the same government that rose up against King George within a very short period of time, started to oppress its own people and then once again giving rise to protest.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Gloria, that's all the time.
		We have Gloria Brown Marshall, professor and author of the book, A Protest History of the United States.
		Thank you so much for joining us this morning.
unidentified		Power to the people.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		And up next, we will take more of your phone calls off to the break on the question that we started the day with.
		What is your top economic concern as you look ahead to the upcoming year?
		Start calling in now.
		Republicans, your line is 202-748-8001.
		Democrats, your line is 202-748-8000.
		Independence, your line is 202-748-8002.
unidentified		On this episode of Book Notes Plus with our host, Brian Lamb.
brian lamb ▲ ● ▼		This week's Encore interview is from Book Notes from September the 21st, 1997, 28 years ago.
		Our guest was Peter J. Gomes, former minister of the Memorial Church at Harvard.
		His father was from Cape Verde Islands, and his mother was an African-American.
		In 1991, he identified himself as gay, but says he remained celibate.
		Professor Gomes passed away in 2011 at age 69.
		During his lifetime, he received over 40 honorary degrees.
		Professor Gomes was a registered Republican for most of his life and offered prayer at the inauguration of Presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush.
		However, in August of 2006, he changed his registration to the Democratic Party.
unidentified		We revisit an interview with Peter Gomes and his book, The Good Book: Reading the Bible with Mind and Heart.
		BookNotes Plus with our host, Brian Lamb, is available wherever you get your podcasts and on the C-SPAN Now app.
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		Washington Journal continues.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		We return to the question of the morning.
		What is your top economic concern going into the new year?
		President Trump, in an Oval Office address in prime time, addressed what he believes will be the economic outlook for next year.
		Take a listen.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		This year, you will also see the results of the largest tax cuts in American history that were really accomplished through our great, big, beautiful bill, perhaps the most sweeping legislation ever passed in Congress.
		We wrapped 12 different bills up into one beautiful bill that includes no tax on tips, no tax on overtime, and no tax on Social Security for our great seniors.
		Under these cuts, many families will be saving between $11,000 and $20,000 a year.
		And next spring is projected to be the largest tax refund season of all time.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		That was President Trump at the White House earlier this month talking about what he expects the economy to look like next year.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Now, on the other side of the political spectrum, we have Senator Bernie Sanders from Vermont who expressed some concern about the economic outlook for next year in a video posted on X. Take a listen now.
bernie sanders ▲ ● ▼		One of the most transformative technologies in the history of humanity and will have a profound impact on the lives of every man, woman, and child in our country.
		Just a few points, just a few points that we need to be thinking about.
		One, who is aggressively pushing these technologies?
		Well, surprise, surprise.
		It happens to be the very wealthiest people on earth, people like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Peter Thiel, Bill Gates, and other multi-billionaires.
		So here is a very simple question I'd like you to think about.
		Do you believe that these guys, these multi-billionaires, are staying up nights worrying about what AI and robotics will do to the working families of our country and the world?
		Well, I don't think so.
		I think that these very, very rich men want even more wealth and even more power.
		And for a whole bunch of reasons, that is very dangerous.
		Number two, what will AI and robotics mean economically for the working class of this country?
		Well, don't listen to me.
		Listen to the people who are developing those technologies.
		Elon Musk recently said, quote, AI and robots will replace all jobs.
		Working will be optional, end quote.
		Bill Gates predicted that humans, quote, won't be needed for most things, end quote.
		Dari Amodi, the CEO of Anthropic, warned that AI could lead to the loss of half of all entry-level white-collar jobs.
		Question.
		If AI and robotics eliminate millions of jobs and create massive unemployment, how will people survive if they have no income?
		And I don't want to break the bad news to you, and I know it won't shock you, but very few members of Congress are seriously thinking about this.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		So there was independent senator from Vermont, Bernie Sanders, talking about his economic concerns heading into the new year in a video posted last month.
		Now, of course, as we know, we talked about the top of the show, Americans have an increasingly worrisome viewpoint of the economy for next year.
		According to a Maris poll done December 17th, it says that more than six in 10 say the economy is not working for them personally.
		Economic pessimism for 2026 widespread.
		Now, a first poll that they put out, our first full screen that we'll show you is from that poll.
		It says that 21% believe that their financial situation in this past year has gotten better.
		That's 21%.
		For the same question, 44% say that their financial situation has stayed the same, and 35% say that their financial situation in the past year has gotten worse.
		Asked about next year in that same Marist poll, 33% predicted that it would get better, 29% predicted that it would get worse, and 39% said that it would stay the same.
		The surveyors asked those respondents what economic issue concerned them the most.
		45% said prices.
		18% said housing costs.
		15% said tariffs.
		10% said job security.
		9% said interest rates.
		And 4% said stock market volatility.
		Those are folks who are basically expressing pessimism over the economy heading into 2026.
		Now let's turn to our calls on what your top economic concern is heading into the new year.
unidentified		Mac, your line is open.
unidentified		Hello?
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Yep, Mac, Democrat from California, your line is open.
unidentified		Yes, ma'am.
		Thank you so much.
		Wow.
		So much to talk about, the economics.
		72-year-old MacDonald from California.
		I'm retired now.
		They've got everybody running in the squirrel cage at 15 different issues.
		Workers are in trouble because self-checkout in Costco, self-checkout at Home Depot, self-checkout everywhere.
		You talk to a call center.
		They're in India, the Philippines.
		They're moving all our jobs out while we're scrambling down here.
		All people have to do is park their cars and stay home one, two days.
		So much fuel will be backed up.
		I'm a trucker.
		I'm a retired teamster.
ryan in gainesville ▲ ● ▼		So much fuel will be backed up in those big tankers when nobody's buying it.
unidentified		The price will drop like a rocket.
unidentified		I'm worried about the jobs and people making a living coming up next year.
ryan in gainesville ▲ ● ▼		Trump's mailing out military checks, and I honor everybody that works in the military and saves supports and defends our country, but not bombing boats in the middle of the ocean.
unidentified		He's trying to take everybody's attention in 10 different directions.
		I was making $16.50 an hour in 1982 as a union teamster.
		They're moving all our jobs.
		People, wake up, get organized.
		Thank you, C-SPAN.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		And on the issue of jobs, I turn to a political article.
		The headline is jobless rate rises, adding to Trump's economic messaging woes.
		Now, that's from December 16th at 10 a.m.
		It said the U.S., it starts, the U.S. labor market was much weaker than many had assumed at the start of President Donald Trump's second term.
		Now, nearly a year later, it's softening even further, jeopardizing his pledge to deliver a new golden age for the economy.
		The unemployment rate rose to 4.6% in November, its highest level in more than four years.
		The Labor Department said Tuesday.
		The economy gained 64,000 jobs that month after losing 105,000 jobs in October, mostly the result of federal government workers taking buyouts.
		Caller Udu, tell me if I pronounced that wrong from Massachusetts, a Republican.
		Your line is open.
unidentified		Oh, but that's okay.
		Good morning, Jasmine.
		You're very pretty.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
unidentified		Thank you, C-SPAN Washington Journal, for taking my call.
		Happy New Year's and Good America 250.
		I want to thank God and President Donald Trump, who looks good behind that beautiful desk, unlike Barack O'Brien.
		I want to thank the whole Trump administration who dares to stand up to the Crook establishment for trying to turn this ship in the right direction.
		The stock market is hitting all-time highs, and it's really nice to see.
		I'm okay with Trump tearing down East Wing, upgrading it into a ballroom, long as we the people are not paying for it.
		What the fake news media should be blasting on TV is that old geezer, he fumbles, he stumbles, he mumbles, is that old geezer Jerome Powell about that horrible overran cost federal building that's being built.
		That's what people should be outraged about.
		We don't need continued Barack O'Biden's illegal benefits for rapists, murderers, biohazard insanities for everybody and other pointless things that the demonizers like to keep money at.
		I hope the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the tariff because before way back when, we was a tariff country, and I would hate to pay all that money back.
		Now, can someone please tell me why the Democrats keep bringing up this Jeff Repstein guy, the pedophiles of ghosts?
		I'm pretty sure Barack O'Biden was shaking hands with him on stage after giving a campaign speech.
		And ACA, I'm glad it's gone.
		The status quo does not work.
		We don't need it.
		I agree with Trump.
		Give the people back their hard-owned working money.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		So that caller spoke about the Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell and also tariffs.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Here he is earlier this month talking about whether or not to cut interest rates and what is adding, he believes, to inflation.
unidentified		Just to follow up on that, I mean, this is now the third time that you've cut this year and inflation is around 3%.
unidentified		So is the message that you're sort of trying to send with that that you're okay with where inflation is for now as long as people understand that at some point you still want to get back to 2% because inflation is relatively stable where it is?
jerome powell ▲ ● ▼		Everyone should understand, and the surveys show that they do, that we're committed to 2% inflation and we will deliver 2% inflation.
		But it's a complicated, unusual, difficult situation where the labor market is also under pressure, where job creation may actually be negative.
		Now, supply of workers has also gone way down, so the unemployment rate hasn't moved that much.
		But, you know, it's a labor market that seems to have significant downside risks.
		People care a lot about that.
		That's their jobs.
		That's their ability, if they get laid off or if they're entering the labor force, to find work.
		So that's really important to people.
		The story with inflation, and we're well aware that this is a story at this point, is that if you get away from tariffs, inflation is in the low twos, right?
		So it's really tariffs that's causing most of the inflation overshoot.
		And we do think of those as likely to, in the current situation, as likely to be a one-time, you know, one-time price increase.
		Our job is to make sure that it is, and we will do that job.
		But right now, you've got this difficult balance, and there are risks to both sides.
		There's no risk-free path.
		If it was just inflation and the labor market was just really strong, and then rates would be higher, as they were for more than a year.
		We didn't have to worry about inflation.
		Sorry, about the labor market, because the labor market, unemployment was very low.
		If you remember when inflation was very high, there was a labor shortage.
		So we could focus entirely on inflation.
		Now, it's different.
		We actually have risks to both.
		And I think we're doing the best we can for people.
		They also care about their jobs.
		They do care about affordability.
		And the best thing we can do there is both to support economic activity, but also make sure that when tariff inflation goes down and disappears, inflation lands around 2%.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		That was Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell talking about inflation and how he views President Trump's tariffs affecting inflation.
		Joe from St. Clair, Michigan, an Independent.
		You're next.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Where do I start?
		My God.
		Listen, the guy from California.
		Diesel fuel and gasoline are two different animals.
		Diesel fuel has not gone down like gasoline.
		It comes from a different part of crude oil.
		And when California changed their law and everybody went to low sulfur diesel, it raised the cost of transportation tremendously in this country.
		The other thing that raised it is nobody wants to drive a truck anymore except immigrants who can't get a job.
		Now, on my biggest concern.
		I worry about inflation.
		Some of it is the massive spending of the Biden administration that is just carrying over into this administration.
		You try and claw it back, but you can't.
		The other problem is 200 years ago, you could make a living being a blacksmith.
		Then you had to become a car mechanic as technology changed.
		And now you'll have to change again and go into other occupations.
		The houses are never going to come down until you have an abundance of electricians and plumbers and carpenters and bricklayers.
		As long as people don't want to do those jobs, you're never going to be able to build a house inexpensively.
		They're going to cost a lot of money.
		When someone calls an electrician and says, I got a job to do the same house you built a month ago, if the electrician charged $10,000, now he says, yeah, let me take a shot.
		I'm $14,000 now.
		And the person says, yes, because they can't find an electrician.
		So it just keeps driving it up.
		The other thing that people need to realize is the difference between inflation, deflation, and disinflation.
		If they want an end to deflation does not mean prices go down.
		It means they stop going up.
		If you have deflation, that means prices go down.
		If you think you're going to buy a car for $2,000 less next month, then you will not buy a car this month.
		You'll wait till next month.
		And all the people who work in that auto factory are going to lose their jobs.
		And the same thing goes with everything else.
		If you think a house is going to cost $10,000 less in two months, you're going to not buy a house.
		And all the people who are working on the houses are going to lose their jobs.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Mary from Philadelphia, a Democrat.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Once I find your name, you are next.
unidentified		Yes, good morning, C-SPAN.
		I just want people to think out there that banking on the poor, how corporate America exploit the struggling communities to collect new subsidies, tax breaks in this country.
		The corporations control everything.
		Now we're looking at subsidizing.
		We're talking about we can no longer subsidize health care, but yet we subsidize food for the poor.
		We subsidize housing for the poor.
		We can no longer subsidize these industries that continues to get tax breaks as a corporation.
		Think about it.
		In Philadelphia County, we have the oil, gas, and jet fuel industry, Tunoco, in Philadelphia County, but yet we're listed as the second poorest big city in the country.
		Come on.
		If anything, they're taxing us to give to the rich.
		We're subsidizing the rich.
		And we're looking at Texas as the second, the first poorest big city that they have listed.
		I think it's Dallas with an oil industry there.
		So you're looking at the corporations are setting the price for everything, the housing, but yet we're subsidizing them with our tax dollars to wake up to reality.
		And we have to make sure that these corporations that have been buying up all these properties throughout the United States, they regulate the housing market.
		And we're doing it, subsidizing them under Section 8.
		So make sure that we hold our elected officials accountable for allowing this to happen because most of them are probably in the pockets of these industries.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Now, earlier this month on Fox News Sunday, Energy Secretary Chris Wright expressed optimism about bringing the prices of oil and excuse me, bringing prices of electricity down.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Take a listen here.
jacqui heinrich ▲ ● ▼		You were in Pennsylvania this week with the President talking about affordability and part of the refrain was that Biden's quote, four-year all-out war on energy was a major driver of inflation and the administration's been pointing out that blue states energy costs have been skewing the national average, but it's not like the costs for electricity are down in red states either.
jacqui heinrich ▲ ● ▼		The president's coming up on a year in office, when can Americans expect to see their energy bills drop?
chris wright ▲ ● ▼		First of all, you should start with gasoline prices.
		On inflation adjusted measures, gasoline prices are the lowest they've been in 20 years, except during a blip during Covid.
		So I think president Trump's policies of pro-energy energy addition versus energy subtraction of the Biden administration have been immediately effective in gasoline, in diesel, in other fuels.
		But the electricity sector is a big, complicated machine that for four years the Biden administration shut down coal plants, shut down natural gas plants heck, I was just out in Washington State.
		They were going to dismantle four hydroelectric dams.
		So we've stopped digging the hole, we've stopped the closure of coal plants you'll hear more on that later this week and so we're doing everything we can to stop that rise in electricity prices that was driven by Biden policies.
		And yes, there's inertia that continues on, but very soon you'll see a stop of the rise of electricity prices and with the continuation of Trump policies of energy addition, you will see declines in electricity prices later this term.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		That was energy secretary Chris Wright talking about what the White House hopes will be a fall in electricity prices in the new year.
		Now a quick subject change here.
		We are expecting for president Trump to meet with Ukrainian president Zelinsky at Mar-a-lago, his West Palm Beach resort, later on today at 1 p.m.
		The White House says, as I discussed, ongoing negotiations for a peace settlement in the Ukraine-russia war.
		If we go to a Washington POST article from this morning, the headline is, Zielinsky to meet Trump as Russia continues to pound Ukraine.
		At least four people were killed and 30 wounded in Russia's attacks friday and saturday.
		Ukrainian authorities said an assault on Kyiv's energy grid early saturday knocked out heat in a third in a third of the capital and a foreign minister said and it caused widespread power cuts.
		The temperature on saturday evening was 34 degrees.
		This has all happening ahead of president Trump's meeting with Zelensky.
		In a in a post on X on saturday Zelinsky, He previewed that meeting and he said, Ukraine did not start this war.
		Russia started it.
		Ukraine supported President Trump's proposal for a ceasefire.
		Ukraine has agreed to many different compromises, and this is documented in our draft agreements and our 20-point plan.
		Ukraine is willing to do whatever it takes to stop this war.
		For us, priority number one, or the only priority, is ending the war.
		For us, priority is peace.
		We need to be strong at the negotiating table.
		To be strong, we need to support.
		We need the support of the world, Europe, and the United States.
		This includes air defenses, which are currently insufficient, weaponry, which is currently insufficient in money.
		Thankfully, there is now a European decision, but frankly, there is a constant shortage of funds, in particular, for the production of weapons and most importantly, drones.
		Now, the president will also be meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Monday.
		So, two days of foreign policy for the president, who is still in West Palm Beach at Mar-a-Lago.
		According to an Axios article, it says Netanyahu's Mar-a-Lago visit, crucial for the future of Gaza deal.
		It says President Trump plans several big announcements on Gaza in early January, but the next steps hinge on his meeting on Monday at Mar-a-Lago with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
		Why it matters?
		White House officials think Netanyahu is slow-walking the peace process and fear he will resume the war with Hamas.
		But while the Israeli Prime Minister is budding Hezwo-Trump team, he hopes to bring the President himself over to his more hawkish view, a senior Israeli official said.
		So two days of foreign policy for the president as we discuss the economy here on the program this morning.
		Crystal from London, England, an independent.
		You're next.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		Can you hear me?
		Yep.
		Hello.
		Hi.
		I'm calling from London, UK.
		I wanted to say, it seems to me from here, the only people benefiting from Trump's fiscal policies are the super rich.
		Trump is reported to have made $2 billion since the start of his second term alone.
		I have a couple of friends in the US and their economic experience is dire.
		They're dreading the change coming in healthcare costs soon.
		From major state as I listen to, it seems the majority of individuals feel fiscally strained due to linguist high prices, wage concerns, job insecurity.
		So there's a disconnect between the super rich and the lay person, which may have been ruled about by the recent tariffs Trump implemented, leading to impacts on inflation and worries for most people.
		Now, if Trump wants gold and oil from Venezuela, why doesn't he just buy it like normal people?
		Instead of creating this narrative about boats, which can't even go 200 miles, bringing drugs to the US, the biggest people, the biggest countries that are bringing drugs to the US are Mexico and China.
		If he really wants to clamp down on the impact of drugs coming into the US, why isn't he targeting Mexico and China?
		Why are you killing Venezuelans?
		And someone just mentioned that Etstein.
		He needs to, if he's got a daughter, put your daughter in the position of those who were raped and sexually assaulted by the rich and powerful.
		Would you really still have the same ideology that nothing, this shouldn't go anywhere, that this should be swept underneath the carpet?
		Lastly, the indigenous population of America are brown-skinned.
		They're not Caucasian.
		Trump himself is German and Scottish.
		I mean, how dare he throw people out of America who are brown and black-skinned?
		I just don't get where he's coming from.
		It's just racist ideology, and it's absolutely disgraceful for where I'm standing or sitting or listening or, you know, taking on in the U.S. Donnis from New Haven, Connecticut, a Republican.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		You're next?
unidentified		Yes.
		I just want to make a comment of what one of the callers was talking about said Barack O'Brien.
		That is absolutely ridiculous.
		And Trump is not really qualified to be president.
		And he said vulgar state.
		He's an embarrassment to this country.
		And remember what he said about Biden's family making money and the money that he has made, and he has not, he's not even, he violated the Constitution.
		And I don't know how people can just support him.
		And that is my comment.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Mark from Silver Spring, Maryland, a Democrat.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		You're next.
unidentified		Yes, good morning, first.
		Happy New Year to everyone.
		The economic issue I'd like to pose is the budget, and I like to pose it in terms of an irony.
		On the one hand, we hear the genius of AI, but have we heard any of the AI leaders have a press conference like Altman, Dalal, whatever, Pichai, and say, you know what, we ran the budget through our AI programs, and here's a solution.
		They've never done it.
		So I did.
		And what I found is, yes, you could cut the budget by $2 trillion, and with IRS enforcement and closing tax loopholes and other cuts, you can actually cut, you could raise revenue, minimize chaos, and cut the budget by $2 trillion.
		And what I'd like to suggest is that across the country, or even C-SPAN may want to do it, have a contest of high school kids to use AI to bounce the budget and even cut off $2 trillion.
		In brief, unfortunately, the people who are honest and can use the technology are not being allowed to present their results,
		while the ones who are in charge of the technology are not presenting the results of this technology to help those who are losing health care and so they could get food support.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Patrick from Oregon, an independent, you're next.
unidentified		Hi, thanks for taking the call.
		Good morning.
		So my biggest economic concern is the enormous and continually growing population of homeless people that we have in this country.
		We're somewhere around a half a million homeless distributed across the country and concentrated in certain states and cities.
		These are mostly men who seem to have lost connection with the rest of our society either through drug use, imprisonment, or other problems.
		And the solutions that have been suggested don't seem to address the root problem.
		There's the housing first philosophy where you just give them housing, they'll be okay.
		The other philosophy is let's get tough and imprison them for their drug use.
		But My thought is that this large group of people, mostly men, are the collateral damage of the systematic dismantling of our economic and cultural foundations.
		If you look at the 40 years post-World War II, we had the greatest economic boom in this country's history, maybe in the world.
		That was because we had a lot of manufacturing here.
		Many were semi-skilled or even low-skilled that allowed young men to enter the workforce easily and have a connection with a job, give them an identity, give them a responsibility to their family and their communities.
		We also had a draft that allowed young men to channel some of that young men energy into either learning a skill or having at least a sense of camaraderie and connection with the rest of the country.
		But since then, we've had this continual migration of manufacturing offshore.
		AI is not going to help.
		So, my solution, or I would suggest a solution, would be to try to capture some of these young men, not just men, but largely young men through one, better education, which includes skills education and possibly training for getting into the trades.
		Number two would be some kind of either mandatory or strongly encouraged service, like something like the Conservation Corps or the Peace Corps that was very vibrant in the past.
		It doesn't have to be the military, but it could be the military, where you can get some of these young men and channel that energy, give them a trade, give them a skill, and most importantly, have them feel a connection to the community and the country.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Richard from Oklahoma, a Republican, you're next.
unidentified		Yes, I'm Richard, Brookenair, Oklahoma.
		My number one concern about the economy is there are a lot of good things that are being done by the Trump administration and the Republicans in Congress.
		And if they lose control of the Senate and the House, it's going to go back to the way it was before.
		And a lot of the good things that they're doing to reduce costs of government and the deficit are going to be blocked.
		And we're just going to be continuing to grow the deficit and be on a road where inflation does get greater.
		And we'll see how it plays out.
		But that's a huge concern of mine.
		I also feel as if the younger people have a really difficult time knowing how to handle money.
		And the big thing that's been pretty tough is that I also think that a lot of the issues are on the coast with inflation and high housing costs, and that's affecting the average.
		So that's kind of my comments.
		Okay?
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Harold from Ohio, a Democrat.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		You're next.
unidentified		Yes, I have two statements to make.
unidentified		In 1973, I told a college professor that automation will eliminate four jobs to every job it creates.
john in missouri ▲ ● ▼		And two, I said when you eliminate those jobs, you eliminate taxpayers.
unidentified		And as a result, the budget would go in the hole.
		So that is my question.
		Answers to the this morning Economic concern of 2026.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		That was Harold from Ohio.
		Now, the previous caller talked about housing prices.
		Take a listen to Fox Business Lawrence Young, excuse me, a chief economist for the National Association of Realtors, gave his prediction about housing prices in the new year.
gerri willis ▲ ● ▼		We're forecasting, the NAR forecasting 2026, a 14% increase in existing home sales.
		That's a very big move.
		How did you come up with that?
		Because it's really an outlier.
unidentified		Hello, Jerry.
		Thanks for having me.
		You're welcome.
		Well, you know, housing market, as you know, is a highly cyclical business.
		It goes up and it goes down.
		And we have had three years of sluggish home sales activity.
		So now, as the interest rates are beginning to be a little better, not the super low mortgage rate, but today's near 6% mortgage rate is much better than 7%.
		The Federal Reserve probably will do two more additional rate cuts.
		Now, the mortgage rate is not a one-to-one relationship, but directionally it will be helping.
		And that low mortgage rate always brings more buyers to the market.
gerri willis ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, let me ask you.
		Lawrence, let me ask you about that because in a recent presser, you said something about the last time we had a full percentage rate cut for mortgage rates.
		What happened?
		Tell me about that case study.
unidentified		So you look at how the mortgage rate moved, say back in 2011 to 2012 with the mortgage from 5% to 4%.
		We got a million additional home sales during that time period.
		And now with the mortgage rate expected to go from, say, 7%, which was the rate early part of 2025, now approaching 6%.
		So even if it sort of settles down near 6%, we are going to have additional people qualifying for the mortgages.
		And of those people who qualify, not everyone act.
		Roughly 10% respond to it.
		And based on that analysis, with more inventory on the market, we have that 14% boost in home sales in 2026.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		So there was Lawrence Young talking about his predictions as representing the National Association of Realtors on housing prices come next year.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Anthony from Fort Pierce, Florida, and Independent, you're next.
unidentified		Hey, Jasmine, welcome to the C-SPAN Captain C.
		I was calling to say that as it relates to the economy in 2026, I'm retired from the military, but I think I got a daughter that's 20, 24.
		And then I feel, man, I have to pray for my daughter and this economy that she, I'm praying she go to the military right now.
		She's in college, but I'm praying that things turn around like daddy did, where, you know, as academy houses are going up and things of that nature, food and things of that nature, that we, you know, the corporation need the people and the people need the corporation, just like the military need the citizens to serve and the citizens need great leadership as any president, whether it be Republican or Democrat.
		So we just need each other, like a check and balance, and we just need to be fair to one another.
		And our country will always, as it is, be number one.
		And I also like to say, Jasmine, when I call in next time, I call John, Dick John, or John John.
		I call Gretchen, the queen of awesomeness.
		When I call in on you, I'm going to say she doesn't play the sax or the clarinet or the trombone, but she has all that jazz because her name is Jazz.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Very good.
		Thank you.
		Lewis from Fort Valley, Georgia, a Democrat.
		You're next.
unidentified		Well, what I'd like to know is what store these people are attending.
		Gas is not $2 a gallon.
		Gas is $270, $280 a gallon.
		Regular gas, diesel is $3.50 to $4 a gallon.
		I don't understand.
		I don't understand what store.
		I don't understand why they say the economy is getting better.
		It's getting worse.
		Food is ridiculous.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Can I ask what your top concern on the economy is?
unidentified		My concern is the price of food and groceries and the price of gasoline.
		How the prices are because of those tariffs.
		That's my concern.
		People ain't going to be able to buy food if the prices don't go down and they're steadily going up.
		So when is it going to stop?
		And as far as Biden is concerned, he created 16 million jobs.
		There are a million people out of work now.
		So who did the better job so far?
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Carl from Maine, a Democrat.
unidentified		Yes, how are you doing this morning?
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Doing well, thank you.
justin in texas ▲ ● ▼		I kept track when I bought gas to the same place where I go get coffee in the morning when Joe Biden was still in office.
unidentified		I was paying here in Maine $289.9 a gallon.
justin in texas ▲ ● ▼		Gas today in the same stores is $3.05.
unidentified		Also, I had a call.
unidentified		I've been going to the VA hospital since 1978.
justin in texas ▲ ● ▼		They called me last week to inform me due to the cuts and VA jobs that I no longer have a doctor there.
		If I get hurt, just drive to the emergency room.
		Food prices are up sky high here.
		They haven't went down at all.
unidentified		And I got a letter from Social Security yesterday.
justin in texas ▲ ● ▼		My Social Security went up $34.
		The week before, my property taxes in Maine went up $1,284.
		And I live on $14.5 Social Security and a $3,600 a year pension, a little over $18,000.
unidentified		And when I go to Walmart, Woes and everywhere, prices are up on everything.
justin in texas ▲ ● ▼		So when Trump's advisor was on there earlier, I don't know what town he lives in, but he ought to come up here to Maine.
justin in texas ▲ ● ▼		And when I called the heating oil yesterday, they said heating oil is up to $3.75 a gallon, soon to go to $4 a gallon.
unidentified		So that's how we're living.
justin in texas ▲ ● ▼		And when Biden was in office, they can call me a liar if they want.
unidentified		Prices were cheaper.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Jim from Dubuque, Iowa, an independent.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		You're next.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Good morning.
		I think we're on an irreversible doom loop economically.
		We're having to borrow money to pay the interest on the debt.
		This is an unsustainable situation.
		It seems like most people have a basic misunderstanding of economics.
		The definition of inflation is an increase in currency or debt.
		And that can show up anywhere.
		Could show up in dot-com stocks, as we saw in that bubble, it can show up in real estate prices.
		It can show up in other commodities.
		But the problem is that we're going through a global monetary collapse because if a debt can't be paid, it won't be paid.
		And interest rates travel or vary on a decades-long cycle.
		In 2022, we ended a 40-year cycle of interest rates decreasing, and interest rates are now going to increase.
		The government can influence short-term rates, but it cannot influence long-term rates.
		People begin to perceive the risk and will demand more return for loaning money.
		And at some point in the not too distant future, the 18 to 20 percent interest rates that I lived through will look good.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Charles from Neptune, New Jersey, a Republican.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		You're next.
unidentified		Hello.
		Good morning.
		How are you?
		Good.
		How are you?
		Okay.
		I think I'm not here to bash any party, you know, one way or the other.
		But, you know, you have to look at reality.
		All these people that are pushing these green new deals, solar power, you know, gas is going down in most states, almost to $2, which we were paying when Biden took office.
		When Trump was leaving and Biden took office, our gas went up to $4 something a gallon.
		Now, in our state, because of our dum-dum governor, I'm not going to say what party he belongs to.
		I think we all know that all these green deals, you look at the states where all these things are sky high.
		It's all Democratic states.
		And what do you say when you're paying all this every single week?
		You know, some things are going down.
		Beef is not going down because there's no cows, because they wanted to get rid of the cows because Lewis from Salisbury, North Carolina, Democrat.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Your line's open.
unidentified		Yeah, good morning.
		My top economic concern for 26 is that people have to realize, to me, three things.
		First, the insurance premiums are going to skyrocket.
		Most of all, you have a case in front of the Supreme Court dealing with Louisiana's redistricting and other states redistricting.
		All the minorities in Louisiana, I'm specifically saying Louisiana, 40% of representation, the state is trying to get rid of to make it more white representative.
		What do you think the economic ramifications will be for those districts that are unrepresented in the U.S. House?
		The premiums are going up.
		People are going to have to pay, say, from $100 to $350 every month.
		Now, money finances, they're going to dwindle, and economic prosperity is unreachable.
		Now, the main thing to me is that redistricting, that's going to cause economic downfall for millions Americans without representation.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Stephen from Atlanta, Georgia, an independent, you're next.
unidentified		Hey, good morning.
		The concerns I have are many fold.
		I was a Democrat for 50 years.
		I currently registered as a Republican, but I'm really an independent.
		I don't believe in either party.
		I believe in what's good for American and American citizens.
		I think most of the country feels the same way unless they're hooked up and they're getting something from either party for free.
		My concerns are the national debt.
		I think Trump should take the money that we're getting on tariffs and pay down the national debt.
		I think the deal with the student loan should be addressed, and the way it should be addressed is as follows.
		When I took my student loan to become a physician, what I did is I paid, I think it was one over prime.
		During the last 20 or 30 years, prime has been very low.
		One over prime would make those student loans 2%.
		During the Obama administration, the government took over the student loan process, and they raised the interest rate on all of those young folks to 8%.
		They also did something that we didn't have, and they gave them tuition and books.
		When I took the student loan, it was only for your tuition.
		Therefore, we had a huge population working on all the menial jobs from sweeps and floors to other things like bartending and construction to make our tuition, I'm sorry, to make our housing costs and also our expenses for living that allowed us to become part of the American society and work to get a better life for ourselves.
		No one was giving us anything.
		When the Democrats took over the student loan process with Obama, when they gave them housing and tuition and living expenses, those things went away.
		We need to reinstate that.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Joe from Tampa, Florida, Republican.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		You're next.
unidentified		Hello.
		Good morning.
		I guess today I'm going to take a little different tack than I normally have.
		I've called often.
		I've been maybe a little differential to some of the calls and callers that have called into C-SPAN.
		But to be honest with you, most of the points that the people are calling in are just foolish.
		The gentleman a minute ago made a couple comments that were cogent.
		Here's the bottom line for the economy and the biggest economic concern I think the country has.
		It's obviously the deficit.
		If you look across the world, you will see that socialist policies across the world have damaged people's standards of living, whether it's Canada, whether it's Britain, whether it's France, whether it's Italy.
		Socialist policies where the government tries to control everything have been extremely detrimental.
		They don't owe us health care.
		It's up to the Americans individually to take care of themselves, except for people that are truly disabled.
		It's clear that the Democrats are trying to buy votes and change this into a very socialistic system.
		Easy analysis will tell you.
		Just look at the world yourself.
		That will destroy the standard of living in America.
		So if you hate your family, you want bad things for your family, follow the Democratic Party.
		They're interested in power at the expense of the American people.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Ron from Michigan, a Democrat.
		You're next.
		Ron, we've got about 30 seconds.
		What's your top economic concern of the heading into the new year?
unidentified		Good morning, Jasmine.
		The prices are going up on things.
		Everything you buy, the cans are getting smaller.
		The boxes are getting smaller.
		The food content that the four corporations that own all the food in this country are getting smaller.
		So everything is going up, and your share of the food is going down.
		Thank you to the Trump.
		And how many billions of dollars are we wasting in Venezuela to steal their oil?
		Stop it.
		Stop it right now.
bernie sanders ▲ ● ▼		No blood for oil.
unidentified		Thank you, Jasmine.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		Joseph from California, your line is open.
		We've got about 20 seconds.
		Joseph, what's your top economic concern of heading into New Year?
unidentified		The deficit is way too high.
		The Republicans, well, Trump has come in and killed our deficit.
		He's growing it.
		He's growing our economy with terrorists and high prices he lied about.
		And all these guys keep lying on Biden about what Biden did.
		Biden saved our economy after the pandemic because Trump failed to handle it.
		When Biden came into office, he inherited a complete Trump pandemic mess.
		But they just want to beat him down like it was going to correct itself immediately.
jasmine wright ▲ ● ▼		That's all for today's program.
		Another Washington Journal comes your way tomorrow morning at 7 a.m. Eastern.
		Stay tuned.

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