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Dec. 13, 2025 02:26-02:55 - CSPAN
28:53
Washington Journal Rep. Don Bacon R-NE

Rep. Don Bacon (R-NE) addresses inflation under Trump, citing 9% pre-2024 but 3% now while warning wage stagnation hurts purchasing power, especially food costs. He criticizes tariffs as regressive taxes, questions China’s soybean deals, and opposes Trump’s Ukraine-Russia negotiation optics. On Venezuela, Bacon demands congressional authorization for strikes, cites 20+ actions against alleged drug runners, and calls for hearings on a September 4th "double-tap" strike and oil tanker seizure, framing Maduro’s sanctions evasion as a threat to democracy. He also slams Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth’s nomination over Signalgate, media rules, and anti-NATO stance, while defending temporary ACA tax credits and pushing for $200K income caps to cut healthcare costs. Polarization stifles merit-based debate, he argues, but bipartisan action is needed before December 31st deadlines to reform healthcare sustainably. [Automatically generated summary]

Participants
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don bacon
rep/r 17:47
Appearances
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greta brawner
cspan 04:41
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Speaker Time Text
unidentified
Students there, and they were all freaking out because we had this American president who was a cowboy and an actor, and they felt like, oh my gosh, this guy's going to start, you know, World War III.
And then who would have thought later they'd be all, you know, he'd have such a claim.
Thank you very much.
We are out of time.
I'd just like to say I hope Congressman Krishna Morthy is going to buy you a drink for leaving you on the island by yourself.
It's been a pleasure.
Thank you for your time.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
25 years ago, the Supreme Court ended the Florida vote recount in the presidential election between Republican George W. Bush and Democrat Al Gore.
The court's decision settled the 2000 presidential race.
We'll have the Supreme Court oral argument in Bush v. Gore Saturday at 1 p.m. Eastern on C-SPAN.
greta brawner
Joining us this morning is Congressman Don Bacon, Republican of Nebraska.
He's a member of the Armed Services Subcommittee and also sits on the Agriculture Committee.
Congressman, I want to begin with the economy.
The Associated Press out with a new poll that found only 31% of U.S. adults now approve of how President Trump is handling the economy.
Paired with that is the front page of USA Today with the headline, Poll finds inflation taking a heavy toll.
President downplays affordability concerns.
We also saw Newt Gingrich telling the Hill newspaper that if the economy doesn't turn around, it's not going to be good for Republicans in the midterm elections.
Would you agree?
don bacon
Yes, I do, Greta, and thanks for having me back on.
You know, the Americans are still mad about what happened two years ago.
We're at 9% inflation.
We're at 3% now, but they don't see an improvement.
You know, it's still the, they can afford less at the supermarket.
And that's what that's what they're upset about.
Their pocketbook, their salary is not going as far as it did three or four years ago, and they feel it.
And so I think the president should take heed that these numbers are real.
I think Newt Gingrich is absolutely right.
And I don't think the president wants to hear it, but I believe tariffs are a big issue.
The tariffs are increasing the costs on goods.
There are costs on consumers.
It's the most regressive tax there is when you put tariffs on goods.
And this is hurting the affordability case that he needs to make.
So he took tariffs off of coffee.
That's something I was pushing.
And bananas.
Really, he needs to review the whole tariff regimen.
Maybe the Supreme Court will do it for him.
But the Republicans have never supported tariffs since the 1930s because they didn't work.
And so we're, I hope we can re-look at this, and the White House needs to look at it.
greta brawner
You're retiring after this term.
However, if the election was held today, could you win your seat?
don bacon
I think it was always hard.
I mean, I won in 2018 when the Democrats outperformed Republicans by eight points.
I won by two, and I'm in a totally even district.
I think it would be hard.
I mean, I could do it.
I've done it five times.
I would never take it to the bank and never assume it.
I would have to work, like this last election, I worked 55 days before the election, 14-hour days, and I would have to do that again.
I'd like to think the voters trust me, but it's always a challenge.
I think this environment is similar to 2018 unless we get the economy turned around.
Also, the president needs to relook at how he's handling Ukraine and Russia.
The Americans are overwhelmingly opposing his favoring Russia in these negotiations.
70% of the Republicans or 70% of Americans, to include a far majority of Republicans, support Ukraine.
But you don't really hear that from the president.
greta brawner
Political climate, you're saying not great for Republicans.
If the election were held today, would Republicans lose the House?
don bacon
Likely.
And you could see this with Virginia, New Jersey, Tennessee, some of the down ballot elections.
We're seeing about a 10-point swing from a year ago.
And the number one issue is the economy.
They don't see an improvement.
And we have to be candid, it was 9% inflation under Biden at the worst.
We're at 3% today.
So it's much better when you look at that stat.
But yet it hasn't gotten better on their pocketbooks because they're still feeling the 9%.
So wages fell behind inflation, and everybody's feeling it.
greta brawner
You blame tariffs.
The Wall Street Journal edited.
don bacon
It's a contributing factor.
greta brawner
Contributing factor.
Wall Street Journal this morning editorial board, another $12 billion for a tariff bailout.
Trump's latest round of aid for U.S. farmers hurt by his global trade wars.
don bacon
I agree.
I come from Nebraska.
We were having a hard time before President Trump came in.
Under President Biden, we were nearing a depression-like economy.
Commodity prices were real low and put prices high.
But the tariffs exacerbated it.
It put higher costs on fertilizers and herbicides, things like that.
And we're not selling our corn and soybeans.
Now, China has made some promises to buy soybeans, but they have not yet to any degree that they promised.
There's a small purchase.
So in other words, we're not selling our corn and soybeans, and the costs to plant them are high.
And that's what we're feeling in the Midwest.
greta brawner
What role should Congress play in the strikes that we're seeing from this administration in the Caribbean and Latin America against alleged drug runners on these boats?
What role should Congress have in this?
don bacon
We should have a vote on authorization of force.
That's one thing when the president and his team decides to hit a couple of boats and they come back and tell us, hey, this is why we're doing it.
But they've done over 20.
Continued hostilities should require the president or the Secretary of Defense coming to Congress, making their case.
Well, what do we want to hear?
We want to hear the legal justifications, which they have done in papers, and I think reasonably well.
But we also want to know the intelligence.
How do you know that that boat has cocaine on it or fentanyl or whatever it may be?
We just need reassurances.
I think if they did that, there would be a majority in Congress that would support.
You know, we lose 100,000 people a year from drugs.
And it's, you know, Vietnam, we lost 58,000 over 10 years.
We're losing 100,000 a year from these drugs.
I think Congress would be supportive.
But the president should come to Congress.
I think it's constitutional.
He needs to make a better case to the American people.
And right now, we don't know what he's really doing overall with Venezuela.
There's been no case made.
What are we doing off the coast?
What's the intent?
Are we trying to do regime change?
Is it just about the drugs?
There's been no case made on this.
So I ask the president, come forward, make your case, not just to the people, but Congress as well.
greta brawner
Let's talk about two actions by the administration related to Venezuela.
First, the double-tap strike on September 4th.
Was the second strike against those survivors legal?
don bacon
I'd like to have a hearing.
I'm not a lawyer.
I think we're in the gray zone.
You know, I've been in Iraq and Afghanistan, and we took out people trying to run away from a strike that were terrorists.
I don't think this is the same case, but I would love to have people that are very smart on this legally and give us the pros and cons.
I think we're in a gray zone.
It looks to me like these two people were trying to survive.
That does not look good for the rules of war.
Now they're trying to make the case back there was still cocaine on the remnants of this boat and that other folks are coming in to rescue them and they're going to get the cocaine back.
We should dig into it.
And I think it would be wise to get the retired or the four-star general or admiral that was at Southern Command.
He resigned.
greta brawner
Admiral Holsey.
unidentified
Right.
don bacon
He resigned after this.
It'd be good to have his feedback and hear from him.
greta brawner
On the second action, the most recent one, the United States seizing this oil tanker, was that legal?
don bacon
I think so because it's being sanctioned and they were trying to skirt the sanctions.
And by the way, Maduro is staying in power because he's skirting the sanctions.
That's his only source of revenue.
And we should know Maduro's a bad guy.
The man has taken the richest country in South America and has made it the poorest country.
He's ruined democracy, the free markets there.
But this vote was sanctioned, and they were trying to evade it.
greta brawner
The opposition leader who won the Nobel Peace Prize, the opposition leader in Venezuela, the headline in Wall Street Journal this morning is that she hails the U.S. help, saying that the moves like seizing the oil tanker are key in the fight for democracy in Venezuela.
don bacon
Well, I believe she's the rightful winner.
If it was a free election, she'd be the president of Venezuela today.
Maduro stole the election.
And again, he took the richest country in South America and made it the poorest.
And his predecessor, Chavez.
He's no friend of the United States.
I don't mind pressuring him and doing sanctions, but the president should tell us why do we have an aircraft carrier?
Why do we have all these other forces?
Are we going to invade Venezuela or not?
There's been no case made.
We don't know what's going on.
greta brawner
If the president has talked about a land invasion or he hasn't ruled it out, what is your message to him?
And do you think your colleagues would agree with you before he makes that type of move?
don bacon
I am very reluctant to be supportive of an invasion of Venezuela.
I think it's all right to pressure Maduro and maybe compel a regime change internally with our pressure on sanctions and cutting off the funding from, you know, by taking these boats, taking off the funding that Maduro is relying on.
But again, we don't know what the president's doing because they've said very little.
greta brawner
You made news recently on our ceasefire program when you were our guest.
Tell our, in case our viewers missed it, tell us what you think of the job by Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth.
don bacon
Generally, I've not been supportive.
I wasn't supportive when he was nominated, but when he got confirmed, I said we should give him a chance and prove himself because at that point, we want him to be successful.
But I thought he failed during Signalgate.
All he had to do was say, I made a mistake.
I was wrong.
And he refused to do it.
He blamed the journalist.
Now he's saying he was totally exonerated in the report.
I read the report.
He was not.
He put sensitive information before a strike on an unclassified application that Russia and China very likely monitor.
And two hours before the strike said, this is when the aircraft are taken off.
This is two hours before we're going to hit the targets.
That could have gotten to Yemen and could have undermined the mission and put our folks at risk.
But there's other things that concern me as well.
His rules of engagement with the media, I think, are wrong.
We have bases in our districts.
They're not allowed to talk to congressmen right now unless we get the questions that we want to ask pre-approved through the Pentagon.
We also know the rules of engagement with the media, right?
So we've got media rules, congressional rules.
I think they're both amateurish.
But what concerns me the most is his positions on NATO, Ukraine, him and his Undersecretary for Policy, again by Mr. Colby, they come off as being very anti-NATO, and they have, I think, been undermining our support of Ukraine at every step.
And this is going to damage us for way beyond their tenure in power.
You know, the NATO countries have been, we've had great relations with them for 75 years.
It's been our foremost alliance to hold the peace.
And I see this administration and Secretary of Defense Hexaf at the lead undermining that alliance.
And it's a shame because it's going to hurt us for many years to come.
greta brawner
He told us on ceasefire.
I think I've seen enough.
don bacon
If I was the president, he would not be the Secretary of Defense.
greta brawner
We'll go to our first call here from Missouri City, Texas Independent Caller, Malik.
Good morning.
unidentified
Hi, you know, this morning, I have three points I'd like to make.
First of all, the House of Representatives, along with Donald Trump and the Republican Party, have not passed, introduced, or even spoken about any bills to address affordability.
In fact, their strategy is to just repeat lies over and over again, hoping their supporters will regurgitate those lies, such as gas is $1.97 a gallon.
There's nowhere in the country where gas is $1.97 a gallon.
In fact, the year-to-year average is only $0.06 lower than last year.
Also, secondly, this so-called war on drugs and striking these boats in Venezuela is just completely false.
We have no evidence that these people are carrying drugs.
And in fact, if this were a true war on drugs, wouldn't we revert back to the draconian sentences images that black people suffered under the Rockefeller drug laws when three grams of crack cocaine got you 10 years of minimum mandatory sentencing in federal prison?
This is not a war on drugs.
This is the prelude to an invasion of Venezuela because they have oil.
This is Iraq 2.0, and we're being walked into it slowly by a band of buffoons such as Donald Trump, Pete Hegseth, Pam Bondi, and the rest of the cabinet who have done nothing for the American people but spread propaganda and nonsense.
greta brawner
All right, we'll take your two points, caller.
Congressman.
don bacon
Okay, thank you for the feedback.
I do think on the affordability, tariffs are an issue, and I believe Congress should take back that authority.
So I'll give the caller some of that feedback.
But we are working right now on various affordability bills when it comes to health care.
We know that we've got to do, we need an interim plan because these tax credits are going to expire on December 31st.
But we also got to work on some deeper reforms to the health care because those costs are exploding.
I would say, though, that the energy costs are coming down.
The president, I believe, has a good policy when it comes to natural gas, petroleum.
He's loosening the permitting.
We're getting a lot more supply, which helps lower the costs.
I would have also supported more support for wind and solar as well.
And he is not in that ballpark.
I'm for all the above energy.
If you do all the above, all the costs are going to come down.
So I do think we could do more there.
But the fact is, our gas prices have gone down.
That's a huge win.
greta brawner
Before you answer the second part, though, I want to just add this headline to the conversation.
This is from Fox News.
Putin doubles down on backing Maduro amid mounting U.S. pressure on Venezuela.
That caller concerned that the president, this administration, is bringing us into a war.
And Putin saying he backed Maduro.
don bacon
Well, Maduro is definitely an ally of Putin and Cuba and China, right?
They are not our friends, that's for sure.
And by the way, our president should realize Russia is not our friend, but he acts like it too often.
And I just, I find him in a very appeasing mode with Putin when it comes to Ukraine.
But with Venezuela, again, as I mentioned earlier, I think the president needs to tell the American people and Congress, this is the plan, this is what we're trying to do, because right now, we really don't know.
greta brawner
Here's another headline to share with all of you from theson.com.
Seething tyrant raging Maduro vows to break America's teeth after U.S. seizes the Venezuelan ship as Trump shrugs.
I assume we keep the oil.
Let's go to Tyrone in New York, Democratic caller.
unidentified
Mark Call.
And thanks for coming on and asking questions.
My question is, part of the Republican Party, I call it the Confederate Party, that has been calling for the destruction of our government from when they said they want to make it small enough to drown in the bathtub to the other gentleman Bannon talking about deconstructing the administrative state.
These people have been working progressively to make our government, as they said, small enough to drown in the bathtub.
And if you want to drown something in the bathtub, that means you want to kill it.
They complain about the Affordable Care Act when they have worked, done nothing but work against trying to make sure this thing don't operate the way that it's supposed to.
Now, I know you are a Republican, and I know you see this stuff that goes on inside your own party.
And I'm wondering, how is it when you see Donald Trump come out and say, you know, we want people from Norway, and they're actively trying to stop legal immigration.
They're grabbing people when they're trying to get legal status in this country.
They break the immigration laws.
They try to make sure that they don't work.
If I'm a thief, a robber, or a criminal, I'm going to try to make sure the legal system don't work the way that it's supposed to.
And I think they're actively doing this.
greta brawner
Tyrone, we've got a couple issues there from you.
Immigration, but also the Affordable Care Act.
don bacon
I'm a Reagan Republican, and Reagan Republicans believe in legal immigration.
We don't want illegal immigration.
We want to know who's coming here.
But when we have legal immigration and we bring in people that are nurses, high-skilled, and we need some low-skill or seasonal workers in our agriculture, it works for America.
Without legal immigration, our population would be decreasing.
We'd have a birth rate of like 1.8.
Optimally, you want about 2.1.
And it would take legal immigration to make that possible.
And I hear from every major employer, they can't find enough workers.
So we should find, we should try to have a legal immigration that works for our economy and works for our country.
So I would give the caller that.
Also, a Republican principle, if you come from the Reagan side of the party, we do believe in federalism.
We believe in keeping power at the city, the state level, as much as we can.
Congress should be within Article 1, Section 8, with the authorities that are in the Constitution there.
But we've gone way beyond that.
And so if you're a Republican of the Reagan vintage, you want to bring us back down and do what the Constitution has asked us to do.
I do think there's been some maybe over exaggeration from some of the folks in the administration, like the colours like we're drowning in the bathtub.
Probably some of that stuff has been said.
But we do want a smaller federal government.
That's a Republican principle.
greta brawner
The Homeland Security Secretary, Christine Noam, faced criticism from Democrats yesterday at an oversight hearing on Capitol Hill about global threats, many of them saying she should resign.
Do you think she should resign?
don bacon
Well, I wouldn't ask her to resign, but I would push her on a couple of areas.
One is CISA.
So right now we've been downgraded in our cyber defenses by people who have evaluated how we're doing.
So you look at Cyber Command, that's our military arm of cyber.
We've not had a commander there for nine months, roughly, because the administration fired the most, I would say, the most effective, the most knowledgeable man we had on cyber because some crazy lady come into the White House and wanted him fired.
And they fired him.
And there's really no explanation given.
General Tim Hawk.
greta brawner
Who is the crazy lady?
don bacon
Laura Loomer.
And so Tim Hawk was the most prepared guy we had.
He was the right person leading Cyber Command.
They fired him eight and a half months ago.
They have not been able to find a replacement.
This is a command that we're fighting every day in cyberspace.
Russia and China are attacking us every day.
So we have this inertia right now going on in this four-star headquarters that runs our cyber.
On top of that, the Homeland Security, they run CISA, which is the organization that helps our private businesses, our infrastructure, our energy grid defend against cyber attacks.
And they have cut it significantly, and it's also rudderless.
And so you take these two things combined, and folks who study cyber have downgraded our, you know, they said that our abilities have been diminished over the last year.
That is negligence.
It's unacceptable as an American.
greta brawner
Let's get to ACA and these enhanced tax subsidies.
Where are you on the two discharge petitions offered by moderate Republicans and moderate Democrats to extend the enhanced tax credits for a certain amount of time, but also with some reforms and maybe income limits?
don bacon
Well, I put out the initial compromise plan back in October with Tom Swazi, a Democrat from New York.
greta brawner
Not getting any credit for it.
don bacon
Well, the headline was good that time.
The very first compromise proposal, that was in October.
But both plans play off of our framework.
Now, first of all, we know we need deep reforms to ACA.
I disagree with a previous caller.
If you just let Affordable Care Act go, it is unaffordable.
It's imploding.
The costs are skyrocketing.
And they got zero Republican votes when it was passed.
And we had zero Republican votes in the Inflation Reduction Act to put these tax credits on, and they expire on December 31st.
But we're in charge now.
And we just can't sit and watch this thing implode.
Our view with these two different bills, I'm on both of them, by the way, just to answer your question directly.
We think that we need to have a short-term extension of these tax credits so we can do deeper fixes.
But we also want to do some reforms.
So, for example, the current situation is you can earn up to $600,000 a year and get these tax credits.
We think that's too much.
Also, a third of the money in these tax credits are going to phantom accounts.
They're not even going to individuals and hoping their premiums.
And so we want to ensure that dollar for dollar is lowering people's premiums, and we want to cap it at around $200,000.
The two plans differ a little bit on that, or stagger it down after $200,000.
I'm amenable.
I'm negotiable.
The key is we've got to get 60 votes in the Senate.
We are trying to say, hey, here's some ideas.
But we've got to get 60 votes there, and whatever passes will likely pass out of the Senate first because you've got to get 60 votes.
greta brawner
Well, then that sounds like these ACA subsidies are going to expire on December 31st because the Senate just voted yesterday and they couldn't get to 60 votes.
don bacon
Well, they couldn't get because they did one that was like just a clean extension for three years, I think it was.
That's not going to pass.
And then there was the Republican full-on version that we probably need to look at this coming year.
But we need to have something right now.
And I believe in the end, they're going to look at this variation of what we've offered in the House.
And that's what's going to pass this.
greta brawner
Before December 31st?
don bacon
I believe so.
I never saw Senator saying that.
Okay, we tried both the Democrat plan and the Republican plan.
Need and I would need to have a bipartisan plan.
That's what we're offering.
greta brawner
All right.
Jaden, South Carolina, Independent.
unidentified
Yes, hello.
greta brawner
Morning.
Question or comment here for the congressman.
unidentified
Yes.
Well, I have a comment for you and the congressman, please.
But the first thing is that for C-SPAN, if you let these, you invite these professional talkers on.
The other day you had Cal Thomas, I think, some senator calling this on.
It was only one or two calls that got through.
And you let these guys talk, talk, talk, talk.
greta brawner
All right, Jayden, get to your question or comment, please, because time is ticking away.
Go ahead.
unidentified
I'm just telling you, ma'am.
I know I'm letting you mad.
You haven't had no show.
greta brawner
All right, Jaden, your question or your comment?
don bacon
Ma'am?
greta brawner
All right, I'm going to go on.
John in Dallas, Texas, Republican.
unidentified
Hi.
I just wanted to make a comment about the debate over the health care subsidies and just health care in general.
That debate seems to me, I'm looking at it from a Republican perspective, but I think it happens on both sides where the plan for improving or changing health care, let's say on the Republican side, seems very discredited by Democrats in a way that doesn't look at what the advantages would be, but vilifies Republicans as if they're heartless, they're cruel, they want to take away health care from people.
I don't think that's the point.
I think the point is they have a better plan for how to make it work better.
And unfortunately, the problem in our country today is that both sides reduce the other side's point of view to a dehumanizing perspective.
greta brawner
All right.
unidentified
I think.
greta brawner
We heard your point, John.
Thank you, Congressman.
don bacon
There's a lot of truth there.
We have a shirts versus skins mentality all over our country right now, but we surely do have in Congress and politically.
If you're on the shirts side, you're supposed to support everything your team does, and you condemn the other team no matter what.
I don't think it works.
Sometimes our team is doing things that need to be called out.
That's why it's good to have some independent Republicans and Democrats.
Also, every once in a while, your opponent could come up with a good idea.
You may want to look at it.
I think we should have that mindset.
And our system of government, written by James Madison and, you know, we had James Madison and Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, and the Federalist Papers, they've built a system of government that forces consensus.
And if you hate each other, it's very hard to get that consensus.
So I would agree with the caller.
I do think we have some proposals on how to make health care better, expansion of health savings accounts.
You imagine, say, you're working for C-SPAN, and they say for every dollar you put in, Greta, we'll put in two or three dollars.
You can go out and buy the insurance you want.
That's one proposal.
We have another proposal putting high-risk people in a separate pool and then subsidize their premiums down to normal.
And then the healthy pool, their rates would automatically just go down significantly.
That's another proposal.
So we have some ideas out there that we can look at, but we're not going to get this done before December 31st.
Therefore, we need these tax credits extended for a short one year or two years that's negotiable with some reforms.
And I just think we're going to get there because I don't see any other way out.
greta brawner
Don Bacon, Republican, Nebraska.
He is optimistic this morning.
Michael in Massachusetts, Republican.
unidentified
Hi.
So I've been hearing a lot, and I just have to say that I think the real problem or the real issue is kind of the neglect on the behalf of our political leaders, whether it's in the House and the Senate or it's our president.
And just to give you a case in point, when COVID happened, toward the end, I think his final year, Donald Trump gave the American taxpayer an additional seven, maybe five to seven months to complete their taxes due to the epidemic.
The epidemic, as you know, lasted for years.
The following year, through the Ways and Means Committee, two congressmen, both bipartisan, Republican and Democrats, after consulting with accountants, asked the IRS to give American taxpayers two additional months.
They were able to get one month out of it.
greta brawner
All right, so Michael, what are you asking for today?
unidentified
Well, what I'm saying, I know it it takes a minute to explain, but the following year.
And you would think after all the deaths and all the horrible things that happened with COVID that we would have congressmen and women that truly cared about the American people knowing how lives were disrupted.
greta brawner
Okay.
Michael, I have to leave it there.
Congressman, your reaction.
don bacon
Well, we should be very thoughtful.
And that's why I go back to the district every weekend.
I mean, I've been doing this for nine years, going on 10 years.
And you try to go back every weekend, and I try to go to as many local events where you hear from people's concerns, and you try to reflect that in Congress.
And one of the things that we did do during COVID is we put these tax credits on, and they were supposed to be temporary, but in a sense, now they're becoming permanent.
And so that's concerns on the Republican side.
And the costs keep going up.
And so it gets back a little bit, just playing off what the caller said.
We've got to find something better.
We've got to find a little more deeper reforms in the long run here to lower these costs because they are unsustainable.
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