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Dec. 3, 2025 06:59-10:01 - CSPAN
03:01:55
Washington Journal 12/03/2025

C-SPAN’s Washington Journal (12/03/2025) dissects Trump’s controversial Venezuelan drug boat strikes—90+ deaths since September, no congressional approval—with callers citing legal violations under UCMJ and international law. Maduro’s alleged role overshadows Mexico’s fentanyl crisis (50K overdoses in 2023), while critics compare tactics to racial violence and question $6–8M daily Caribbean military costs. Shawn Vandiver of Afghan EVAC counters with PTSD-driven extremism among Afghan allies, despite rigorous vetting. Democrats like Rep. Melanie Stansbury demand accountability, linking Trump’s strikes to broader legal and ethical failures, including blocked Epstein investigations and expiring ACA subsidies, while Republicans defend military action as necessary against cartel "terrorism." [Automatically generated summary]

Participants
Main
m
melanie stansbury
rep/d 14:06
m
mimi geerges
cspan 33:05
s
shawn vandiver
17:02
Appearances
c
chuck schumer
sen/d 01:53
d
donald j trump
admin 02:43
j
jacob rubashkin
04:23
j
john thune
sen/r 01:25
k
kristi noem
admin 00:50
p
pete hegseth
admin 01:58
t
tim kaine
sen/d 02:17
Clips
a
al green
rep/d 00:20
b
barack obama
d 00:02
b
bill clinton
d 00:02
d
david rubenstein
00:09
g
george h w bush
r 00:02
g
george w bush
r 00:04
g
gore vidal
00:04
j
jimmy carter
d 00:04
j
jodi picoult
00:22
m
mike johnson
rep/r 00:10
p
patty murray
sen/d 00:16
r
rep walter jones
00:16
r
ronald reagan
r 00:01
s
sean duffy
admin 00:08
Callers
josh in arkadia
callers 00:06
nick in oklahoma
callers 00:15
|

Speaker Time Text
unidentified
Providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy.
Coming up this morning on Washington Journal, along with your calls and comments live, we'll talk about the results of Tuesday night's special election in Tennessee and what it means for the upcoming midterm elections with Inside Election Deputy Editor Jacob Rushkin.
Then, Washington Examiner Defense Reporter Mike Brest on questions surrounding U.S. military strikes on suspected drug boats and America's defense posture as tensions mount with Venezuela.
Also, Republican South Carolina Congressman William Timmons, chair of the Oversight Subcommittee on Military and Foreign Affairs, discusses U.S. tensions with Venezuela, Ukraine-Russia peace efforts, and the future of ACA subsidies.
And Afghan EVAC founder and president Sean VanDiver talks about his organization and the Trump administration's response to an Afghan national being named as the suspect in the National Guard shootings in Washington, D.C.
Then New Mexico Democratic Congresswoman Melanie Stansberry on the future of ACA subsidies and congressional news of the day.
C-SPAN's Washington Journal is next.
Join the conversation.
Good morning.
mimi geerges
It's Wednesday, December 3rd.
At a cabinet meeting yesterday, President Trump signaled an escalation in attacks against Venezuela, including land targets.
At that same meeting, the president said that he and Secretary Hagseth didn't know about the second strike on the alleged drug boat in September.
The Defense Secretary cited the fog of war and said that the commanding admiral gave that order, killing the survivors.
And it was legal.
We're getting your thoughts on the military operations in the Caribbean and the possibility of land strikes against Venezuela.
Would you support or oppose that?
Here's how to reach us.
Republicans 202-748-8001.
Democrats 202-748-8000.
And Independents 202-748-8002.
If you're active or former military, you can call us on 202-748-8003.
That's the same number you can use to text us your comments, include your first name in your city-state.
And we're on social media, facebook.com slash C-SPAN and X at C-SPANWJ.
Welcome to today's Washington Journal.
Let's start with that cabinet meeting yesterday.
Here's what President Trump said about Venezuela.
donald j trump
All I know is this every boat that you see get blown up, we save 25,000 on average lives, 25,000 lives.
And they've been sending enough of this horrible fentanyl and other things like cocaine and other things.
But fentanyl right now is the leader of the pack to kill our entire nation because a little speck of the head of a pin can kill somebody.
It's very dangerous stuff.
I know so many people where their sons were drug addicts.
They had one little sample and they died.
They died.
They couldn't believe it.
As far as the attack is concerned, I didn't, you know, I still haven't gotten a lot of information because I rely on Pete.
But to me, it was an attack.
It wasn't one strike, two strikes, three strikes.
Somebody asked me a question about the second strike.
I didn't know about the second strike.
I didn't know anything about people.
I wasn't involved in it.
I knew they took out a boat.
But I would say this.
They had a strike.
I hear the gentleman that was in charge of that is extraordinary.
He's an extraordinary person.
I'll let Pete speak about him.
But Pete was satisfied.
Pete didn't know about a second attack having to do with two people.
And I guess Pete would have to speak to it.
I can say this.
I want those boats taken out.
And if we have to, we'll attack on land also, just like we attack on sea.
And there's very little coming in by sea.
I think we've knocked out over 90% of it.
There's very little.
And I understand that.
There's very little.
We're saving hundreds of thousands of lives with those pinpoint attacks.
It's an amazing thing when you see a boat going along.
And, you know, a lot of the press would like to say they're not.
You see the boat.
They're not maybe drugs.
You see these boats.
First of all, who has five engines on the back of a boat going in weird directions and loaded up with lots of white containers?
There's bags of things.
No, they've done an amazing job.
And Pete has done an amazing job.
mimi geerges
Mr. President, yesterday, this is the headline from the Washington Times.
Trump vows land strikes against drug cartels.
It says that President Trump said yesterday that the U.S. military would, quote, very soon carry out military strikes on land against drug traffickers in some South American countries as he plans to expand operations that so far have focused on smugglers' boats in the Caribbean Sea.
During the cabinet meeting at the White House, Mr. Trump said his policy was, quote, taking those SOBs out, he spelled that out, and would continue to do so despite questions from Democrats and some Republicans about the legality of the boat strikes.
We're getting your take on that this morning, and we'll start with Rob in Poughkeepsie, New York.
Democrat, good morning, Rob, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hey, good morning.
Thank you for C-SPAN.
You know, I think that I'm totally against all of these countries in South America that are sending harmful drugs to the United States, Mexico included, Central American countries.
Totally against these countries.
I think Venezuela is probably one of the lesser countries that are sending these harmful drugs.
But I think that it's a bit of a distraction, the whole business with Venezuela from where we look strong with Venezuela.
But we're actually, I think it's a distraction from how weak we are in terms of Russia and what they're doing to Ukraine.
My understanding is that we are not sending missiles to Ukraine that could be used to fight against Russia.
mimi geerges
So, Rob, we can talk about during open forum, but coming back now to this hemisphere, you would be totally against any increased attacks on Venezuela, or where do you stand on that?
unidentified
Well, you know, I think it's a bit of a Venezuela is a bit of a distraction.
I think Maduro is a killer and a murderer.
And so I'm not against trying to go against Maduro.
That I think is a good thing.
But again, I think it's a distraction and that missiles ought to be supplied to Ukraine.
mimi geerges
Got that, Rob.
Here's Joe in LA J. Georgia, Republican.
Joe, you're on the air.
unidentified
Mimi, I've been calling you a great network for over 30 years.
You all do a great job.
I just want to say I support transactions in Venezuela.
I'm a stock market person, and I think we got the best stock market in history.
I think Trump's by far the best leader in history.
So I'm a fired up and energized Donald John Trump supporter.
I think he's the best president in the history of America.
mimi geerges
Okay, so Joe, let's talk about Venezuela specifically.
You would be in favor of land strikes against Venezuela?
unidentified
Yes, ma'am.
josh in arkadia
Maduro needs to go, and I totally agree with Trump's actions in Venezuela and all of his actions.
unidentified
I think he's the best in history.
mimi geerges
Would you include ground troops if U.S. military troops had to go on the ground in Venezuela?
unidentified
Well, I have, maybe I have total confidence in Trump.
I think whatever Trump decides, he's got the advice of the top military people.
So whatever he decides to do to get Maduro out, I totally support him.
mimi geerges
Got that, Joe.
And here is Mike, who's a former military in Plymouth, Massachusetts.
Hi, Mike.
unidentified
Good morning.
How are you?
Good.
Again, I'm an Air Force Security Police canine back in Vietnam days.
So I do know something about military law and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
Yeah, they're totally illegal.
You're just everything that they're doing on the boat strikes is against the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
And unfortunately for this Admiral, he is following an illegal order.
And the orders come from the top.
They come from Pete.
And if they come from Trump, that's Trump's idea.
mimi geerges
Okay, so Mike, let's drill down on that.
Do you mean that all the strikes on the boats are illegal, in your opinion, or just that second strike that we were talking about?
unidentified
No, they're all illegal because they're international waters.
I mean, even England is saying that they're illegal.
We do have procedures.
That's the main point is we have procedures on a Coast Guard to take care of these.
And if they can pinpoint them with such pinpoint accuracy, which the president said, then they can send the Coast Guard after them and board them.
mimi geerges
So, Mike, the administration.
unidentified
They receive fire when they're boarding.
If they receive fire when they're boarding, then they have the right to return fire.
mimi geerges
The administration has labeled them narco-terrorists, and they've said that the cartel is now considered a terrorist group.
Does that give them legal justification to do those boat strikes then, in your opinion?
unidentified
That's a word.
That's word verbiage.
I don't believe it does at all in international water.
But again, you can't, I don't believe that the president has the right.
He doesn't have a license to kill.
Neither does Pete have.
We haven't declared war.
We haven't declared war on Chicago either.
I mean, if it's military, if they declare the city of Chicago, I can't remember the term, but it's just at the moment.
Anyway, it's 7 o'clock in the morning.
All right.
mimi geerges
We got it.
Well, here is Virginia Democrat Senator Tim Kaine.
He was on the Senate floor, and he believes that the Trump administration has not given enough legal justification.
tim kaine
The Armed Services Committee held a single classified briefing with administration officials on October 1.
As a member of the committee, I attended the briefing.
I'm not allowed to discuss the facts that I learned in that briefing.
But I can say the following.
The briefing did not provide us with the legal rationale justifying the strikes.
The briefers did not provide us with concrete information about the identity of the individuals killed or the groups targeted with the strikes.
The briefers would provide no information about the policy for determining when boats would be attacked rather than interdicted.
Eventually, after weeks and weeks of pressure, the administration finally allowed senators to read in the SCIF the classified legal rationale it prepared to justify these military actions.
By the time senators charged with overseeing military operations and providing the budget for national defense were allowed to review the legal rationale, the strikes had been underway for nearly two months.
I've reviewed the legal rationale, but because the administration continues to call it classified, I'm not allowed to disclose its contents.
But I can say the following.
The legal rationale is weak.
It misinterprets and misuses historical materials regarding the Constitution's allocation of war powers.
Its analysis of the domestic law allowing presidential action is flimsy and would essentially repeal the careful language used in the Constitution and further clarified in the War Powers Act, vesting Congress, the Article I branch, with the power to initiate war.
And its analysis of international law justifying these military strikes is, frankly, embarrassing.
I can also say this, nothing in the rationale that senators can read in a classified setting would allow any military action against the nation of Venezuela.
mimi geerges
That was Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia, and this is Melanie in Louisville, Texas.
Democrat, good morning, Melanie.
unidentified
Good morning.
So are you still asking about the stance on land strikes?
Yes.
Correct.
First of all, I believe being the commander-in-chief means that you're in charge of everything that happens underneath you.
Being the director of quote-unquote war means that you are giving commands.
And yes, I'm sorry that the admiral is being put under the bus for this, but he is also following illegal orders.
And as an admiral, there shouldn't be anybody that should be able to question or not.
And as far as these strikes on these boats, if you can pinpoint close enough to see that there are individuals on a boat, you should be able to also zoom in to see if they truly are carrying contraband.
And as far as taking the land, I think that it is highly illegal, and we have not determined that there is anything that Venezuela is doing wrong.
mimi geerges
If anything, I think Venezuela has every right and probably will declare war on the United States to their So, Melanie, when you say zoom in and see if they're actually carrying contraband, if they could see that and they let's assume that they zoomed in and they did see that it was drugs, would you be in favor of that strike?
Would you say then that's a legal justified strike?
unidentified
Absolutely not.
That is what the Coast Guard is for.
The Coast Guard is there to board, you know, entry, because until then, they're still in international waters.
That means that internationally, nobody can touch them.
But once they cross into United States waters, that's when the Coast Guard can board these boats and see actually what are they carrying.
I mean, for all we know that it's nets.
It's clothing.
Who knows what it is?
mimi geerges
All right, Melanie.
Got that.
And this is a Republican in Smithfield, North Carolina.
unidentified
Michael, good morning.
Good morning.
I watched probably the last 15 or 20 minutes of the briefing yesterday, and I never heard anything about land strikes.
And, of course, I hadn't read a paper this morning.
So if there's any way you can verify, other than one source, maybe three sources, that President Trump or someone in his administration did say there could be land strikes.
mimi geerges
Yes, Michael.
So we just played the clip earlier in the program of President Trump saying that this is so I showed you the Washington Times that it says Trump vows land strikes against drug cartels, eyesights in Venezuela, Colombia as legal political backlash intensifies.
I'll get you more of that.
But assuming that he did, and you can certainly go back into our archives on C-SPAN.org and watch the entire briefing, what do you think?
unidentified
Well, I watched the clip he showed on C-SPAN.
I didn't hear that.
I mean, I'm not disputing anybody, but I heard the Secretary of Defense and I heard President Trump, but maybe it's just me.
You know, I don't know.
I did watch C-SPAN's replay on Washington Journal, and I didn't hear it.
So I'll see it again.
There's no doubt about it.
I'll eventually see it on the news or local news, national news, maybe even on C-SPAN.
mimi geerges
All right, Michael.
Let's talk to Ronald, Minnesota, former military.
Go ahead, Ronald.
You're on the air.
unidentified
Hello.
mimi geerges
Yes, go ahead, Ronald.
unidentified
This is Donald, not Ronald.
mimi geerges
Oh, Donald.
unidentified
Sorry about that.
I blame the Republican senators for this for confirming the most unqualified Defense Secretary in my lifetime.
And I'm 80 years old.
He's got no.
I mean, it's just.
And the idea that we can, Trump says he can invade Venezuela.
Where's Congress?
Where's the people standing up?
Say you can't do that unless we approve it.
So I think it's a whole mess.
And I think those boats were outboard borders.
They're going to get all the way from Venezuela to Florida.
They have to refill 22 times that we're in someplace.
I mean, and how much drugs can they have when they got 11 people on a boat?
And there's not much room for anything else.
I don't understand what the this.
I don't think we can shoot boats just like this lady said before.
Let them get to our coastal waters, then we can intercept them.
But we can't be shooting people just because we think they are.
Thank you.
mimi geerges
And here is the Washington Post about Secretary Hegseth.
It says, it says, Hegseth says he saw no one alive.
It says that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said Tuesday that a couple of hours passed before he was made aware that a September military strike he authorized and watched live required an additional attack to kill two survivors, further distancing himself from an incident now facing congressional inquiry.
Speaking in the cabinet room alongside President Trump, Hegseth delivered the most extensive public accounting yet of his involvement in the strike on alleged drug smugglers in the Caribbean.
Lawmakers and law of war experts have questioned whether the episode constitutes a war crime, and if so, who bears responsibility?
Well, let's hear from Secretary Hagseth directly about what he said.
pete hegseth
The first couple of strikes, as you would, as any leader would want, you want to own that responsibility.
So I said, I'm going to be the one to make the call after getting all the information and make sure it's the right strike.
That was September 2nd.
There's a lot of intelligence that goes into that building that case and understanding that a lot of people providing information.
I watched that first strike live.
As you can imagine, at the Department of War, we got a lot of things to do.
So I didn't stick around for the hour and two hours, whatever, where all the sensitive site exploitation digitally occurs.
So I moved on to my next meeting.
A couple of hours later, I learned that that commander had made the, which he had the complete authority to do.
And by the way, Admiral Bradley made the correct decision to ultimately sink the boat and eliminate the threat.
He sunk the boat, sunk the boat, and eliminated the threat.
And he was the right call.
We have his back.
And the American people are safer because narco-terrorists know you can't bring drugs through the water and eventually on land if necessary to the American people.
We will eliminate that threat and we're proud to do it.
unidentified
So you didn't see any survivors, to be clear, after that first strike.
pete hegseth
You personally?
I did not personally see survivors, but I stand because the thing was on fire.
It was exploded in fire and smoke.
You can't see anything.
You got digital.
This is called the fog of war.
This is what you and the press don't understand.
You sit in your air-conditioned offices or up on Capitol Hill and you nitpick and you plant fake stories in the Washington Post about kill everybody phrases on anonymous sources not based in anything, not based in any truth at all.
And then you want to throw up really irresponsible terms about American heroes, about the judgment that they made.
I wrote a whole book on this topic because of what politicians and the press do to warfighters.
President Trump has empowered commanders, commanders to do what is necessary, which is dark and difficult things in the dead of night on behalf of the American people.
We support them and we will stop the poisoning of the American people.
mimi geerges
And again, that full press conference is on our website in its entirety, cspan.org.
Take a look if you missed any of that or if you'd like to go back and review.
Here is the New York Post with the headline.
Trump again threatens Venezuela land strikes and says Colombia also at risk.
It says that he talked about Venezuela first and then it says here the president quickly pivoted from talking about Venezuela to Colombia, whose left-wing president has clashed with Trump.
Quote, I hear Colombia, the country of Colombia, is making cocaine.
They have cocaine manufacturing plants and then they sell us the cocaine.
Anybody that's doing that and selling it into our country is subject to attack.
No, not just Venezuela.
And we are going to just pause our calls.
We will come back to our calls about Venezuela and possibility of land strikes.
But first we're going to talk to Jacob Rubashkin.
He's deputy editor of Inside Elections about that special election in Tennessee that happened yesterday.
Welcome, Jacob.
jacob rubashkin
Good morning.
mimi geerges
Okay, so tell us the results and what your reaction was to that.
jacob rubashkin
So this was a special election in Middle Tennessee in a pretty Republican district last night to replace former Congressman Mark Greene, who was a Republican, and the Republican candidate won.
That was Matt Van Epps.
He won by about nine points, 54% to the Democrat Afton Baines, 45%.
Now you might say, good night for Republicans.
They won a House seat.
They get to bolster their majority here in Washington, D.C.
But this was a district that Donald Trump won at the top of the ticket by 22 points in 2024, just a year ago.
So a shift of 13 points toward Democrats in just one year of the Trump administration.
And that result, while nice for Republicans that they get another seat, signals a lot of concern for next year when there are a whole host of House districts on the battlefield that are a lot less Republican than this one that might be vulnerable given the terms of the national environment.
mimi geerges
And what do you make of the nine-point win?
Was that a reasonable win?
Does that give Republicans cause for concern?
Or is that pretty much what they were expecting?
jacob rubashkin
Well, I think it's all of the above here.
I think that it was not a particularly close race, right?
A nine-point win is a somewhat comfortable margin, but it is also concerning for Republicans.
And it was also what a lot of Republicans that I spoke to expected the race to look like when all was said and done.
All three things can be true.
It's simply a function of the fact that this district is so Republican at its core.
And Republicans spent millions of dollars trying to keep it in their column.
And it still was a competitive race.
That's the concerning thing.
If this had been a toss-up swing seat district that we talk about every two years and they won it by nine points, that would be one thing.
But this is a district that had no right to be anywhere near competitive that Republicans had to come in and spend $3 million on to get Matt Van Epps across the finish line against a Democratic candidate who had significant vulnerabilities, who was not a perfect recruit for that party.
And all that points to, along with the other evidence we have, a pretty bleak picture for Republicans in the national environment.
They've got to turn things around if they want to have a successful midterm next year.
mimi geerges
And what do we know about the issues that were motivating voters?
jacob rubashkin
Well, Democrats really wanted to make this race about affordability.
The Democratic candidate, Afton Bain, took a page out of the playbook of successful candidates from previous elections this year, like Mikey Sherrill and Abigail Spanberger, even Zorhan Mamdani, in the way that she focused relentlessly on the cost of living in the Nashville area in the rest of the district.
She talked about bringing grocery prices down, making life more affordable.
However, she was not able to outrun the attacks that Republicans lobbed against her.
And that had a lot to do with the things she's said and done as a community organizer and as a state legislator over the last couple of years that ultimately confirmed a lot of Republican voters' worst fears about what a Democrat was.
So she's on camera saying that she's a pretty radical person.
She's on camera saying that she supports defunding the police, that she enjoys chasing around ICE agents.
So Republicans really made this race about a radical policy positions of a Democrat while the Democrat was trying to make the race about cost of living.
Two things that were not a part of this race at all, the big beautiful bill that Republicans passed earlier this year that many in the party are staking their hopes on for the midterms next year, and President Donald Trump, whose name really was absent, except when people were asking, why hasn't Trump done more to help Matt Van Epps?
mimi geerges
Well, tell us more about Representative-elect Van Epps.
Tell us about him.
jacob rubashkin
Yeah, so he comes from a pretty classic background for Republican members of Congress.
He has now served in political office before, but he has served in several positions in the administration of outgoing Republican Tennessee Governor Matt, excuse me, Tennessee Governor Bill Lee.
And also, and highlighted by his campaign, Van Epps is a West Point graduate.
He flew helicopters in the Army where he had a decorated career.
So he'll join a growing coterie of Republican and some Democratic helicopter pilots, both from the Army and the Navy, that now number, I believe, half a dozen in the halls of Congress this year.
mimi geerges
All right, that's Jacob Rubashkin, deputy editor of Inside Elections.
Thanks so much for joining us this morning.
jacob rubashkin
Always a pleasure.
mimi geerges
And we will get back to your calls on the potential for land strikes in Venezuela and operations in the Caribbean.
Talk to Linda in Mississippi, line for Democrats.
Good morning, Linda.
unidentified
Good morning.
That TSA hit Mark Kelly and six more other synagogues and was speaking on.
This is the ass thing.
It's because when Trump and unqualified Phit makes a mistake, they will always blame their support for the mistake.
Now they are transferring the current Admiral on the book because they are both responsible.
The book stops with Trump and he's sorry for the Admiral because his career is gone.
Thank you.
All right.
mimi geerges
And this is Rick in West Hope, North Dakota, Independent Line.
Good morning.
unidentified
Good morning.
How are you today?
Good.
Well, good.
Hey, you know, there's been a lot of talk about Trump doesn't have the authorization to do this, but under the War Powers Act, a national emergency created by an attack of a foreign power or whatever, he can do this.
I mean, he's kind of going around Congress, but he certainly within the wording of the War Powers Act, he can, he's on some type of legal footing here.
And, you know, there's a lot of historical precedent for this kind of stuff.
I mean, under the UN authorization, which Clinton bombed Yugoslavia, right, during the Balkan Wars over there in the 90s.
There was no threat to our country at all from that.
Obviously, Reagan sent troops into Lebanon, and that turned out real well.
We were not under direct attack there.
Obama in 2011, we had the military actions in Libya, and he justified that by saying he was under UN authorization, and our country certainly was not threatened by Gaddafi at that time.
So there's, if we look at this, if the drugs are so bad in this country, and I think everybody knows that fentanyl is killing lots of people and has killed a lot of people, that would kind of be a threat to our country.
mimi geerges
So, Rick, the fentanyl mostly comes from Mexico.
Would you be in favor of attacks on Mexico to stop that?
unidentified
As far as an attack on the country of Mexico, probably not, but on the cartels in Mexico, yes.
Because obviously, I mean, it's even the Mexican government says that they can't control the cartels.
mimi geerges
Okay.
And this is, Rick mentioned the War Powers Act.
That's of 1973.
This is from the Nixon Library website.
Says that it was a congressional resolution designed to limit the U.S. President's ability to initiate or escalate military actions abroad.
As part of our systems of checks and balances, the law aims to check the executive branch's power when committing U.S. military forces to an armed conflict without the consent of the U.S. Congress.
It stipulates the president must notify Congress within 48 hours of military action and prohibits armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days.
That's without congressional approval.
So you can find out more about that at the Nixon Library.
Paul, Plantation Florida, Republican.
Good morning, Paul.
unidentified
Good morning.
First of all, under international law, there is no safe haven for terrorists.
So all of the experts on law all boil down to in U.S. law, there is no safe haven for terrorists.
Now, I actually heard somebody on this program say we don't know if anything wrong is happening in Venezuela.
Well, their election is not recognized by the United Nations, I don't believe.
It was totally bogus.
So that's one strike against that person.
Another strike is how many people that Maduro, under the communist playbook, has killed the true neighbors who put him in power.
So I just want to say that Trump has more, I have more respect for Trump today than I ever did, and here's why.
He's sacrificing his reputation and whatever for the benefit of this country.
We have 100,000 young people, our best people in this country, being killed by crush.
It's going to do what it takes to stop that.
Right now, the score is 100,000 Venezuela killing Americans, the United States 80.
So it's 100,000 to 80.
And Trump understands that.
mimi geerges
Sorry, Paul, the 100,000 number, where did you get that?
unidentified
That is the number of people that have died from fentanyl in the United States.
It's a very well-distributed number.
mimi geerges
And it's mostly cocaine that's coming from Venezuela, but fentanyl comes from this laced with fentanyl.
gore vidal
It is described as related to fentanyl.
unidentified
All right.
mimi geerges
Here's JC, Maryland, Democrat.
Good morning.
You're on the air.
unidentified
Good morning.
I just wanted to say one thing.
Behind all of those policies, you have interest groups.
So Venezuela is filled with oil.
They want the oil.
It has nothing to do with the people.
It has nothing to do with the boats.
I think it is just distraction.
Just like they're talking about other countries, what do they have in common?
They have natural resources.
When Trump got elected, he sat with very powerful people who wanted more power.
And he showed it.
That was the beauty of it.
He showed us exactly who he came for.
He didn't come for the people.
The sad thing is, on the other end, is that he's using everybody's resources, taxpayers' resources, to bomb other land.
Now we have to ask ourselves a question.
Are we for it?
Are we ready to have enemies?
mimi geerges
And this is Gary in Florida, Independent Line.
Go ahead, Gary.
unidentified
Good morning.
A couple points I'd like to make.
Number one, under the War Act, you can possibly okay it for terrorists.
But these are drug dealers.
They're criminals, but they're not terrorists.
Number two, wouldn't it make more sense to allow that boat, rather than bomb it, let it go to its destination and track it and find out a little bit more about who they're selling it to.
Okay?
At that point, you could then arrest them, and you have all these people to interrogate and find out where it came from, what kind of drugs are on that boat, and you could just get a lot more information rather than bomb it out of the water.
Let's find out what's going on.
Okay, thank you.
mimi geerges
Steve in Ridgeway, Pennsylvania, Republican, you're on the air, Steve.
unidentified
Good morning.
It's nice to talk to you again.
Well, my thunder has changed several times during the course of the conversation.
Excuse me.
First of all, I'd like to comment on the War Powers Act.
And I've heard many comments and read online, many comments on Washington Journal on Facebook about declarations of war and nobody's declared war and stuff like that.
The last time the United States of America declared war on anybody was in 1942.
So the War Powers Act and everything that people want to talk about declaring war, 1942 is the last time that America declared war.
Now, when it comes to blowing up the boats, we know what's going on.
The last caller said we don't know what's going on.
The heck, we don't know what's going on.
Anybody that has anybody in their family or friends that has either lost or almost lost somebody to the dangers of drugs, whether it's fentanyl or cocaine or what, knows exactly what's going on.
The country is being flooded with illegal drugs, and the best message to send is, you know, fool around, find out, to paraphrase an unpopular phrase.
Now, another thing, too, when talk about one of the callers talked about cocaine being mixed with fentanyl and stuff.
You go to just about any major city, and I'm going to use Buffalo, New York as an example because I spend a lot of time up there.
You'll see billboards warning people to make sure you know the source of your cocaine and your drugs because it could be laced with fentanyl.
These are public service messages in public on billboards in a major city like Buffalo, New York, telling people to make sure that you know where you're getting your drugs and stuff like that because it could be laced with fentanyl.
We're beyond the tipping point.
It's time to take action.
I support the blowing up of the boats.
You know, another thing, my last point is, you know, people want to whine and cry about 82 people killed on suspected Narco boats in the Caribbean.
That's since September of 2025.
I did a search yesterday on how many homicides in Chicago since September of 25.
In September, since September 2025, September 1st, 2025, as of yesterday, there were 108 homicides in Chicago alone.
Nobody cares about those people except their immediate families.
So quick giving about, quit caring about people from foreign countries that want to bring drugs in.
And I support going to Mexico and bombing the hell out of the cartels.
Eliminate the cartels.
Eliminate their compounds.
We got the technology.
We got the resources.
Do it, just like they did to the Iranian nuclear plants.
And sorry for getting fired up, but.
mimi geerges
All right, Steve.
And this is NBC News with this headline.
Drug boats from Venezuela are mainly moving cocaine to Europe, not fentanyl to the U.S. Experts say it says the realities of Latin America's drug trade challenged the administration's stated rationale for its strikes against suspected drug smuggling boats.
That's NBC News.
And this is Senator Chuck Schumer, who was on the floor yesterday.
He called on Secretary Hegseth to release the tapes of the Caribbean drug boat strikes.
chuck schumer
Months ago, right after the strikes, Hegseth went on Fox News and bragged.
He was present at every moment of the operation.
He said on Fox News that he, quote, watched it live.
He said the same to us in person.
But then last night he tweeted that his Admiralty was actually, that his admiral was actually the one who made all the combat decisions.
This is so spineless.
Pete Hegseth won't hesitate for a moment to talk a big game and take credit if he thinks it makes him look good.
But the minute trouble arises, suddenly Hegseth says someone else was making the decision.
Now let's be very clear about something.
There's a very easy way for the American people to get the truth.
Pete Hegseth should release the full tapes of the September 2nd attack, both the first and second strike.
Not a clip, not some edited or redacted snippet.
The full unedited tapes of each strike must be released so the American people can see what happened with their own eyes.
Now Pete Hegseth says he did nothing wrong.
So prove it.
If it's true, he should have nothing to fear from the truth.
But if he refuses to release the tapes, if he stonewalls, if he keeps hiding the facts, then the question becomes unavoidable: What is Pete Hegseth hiding?
What does Pete Hegseth not want the American people to see?
Is it that his story doesn't add up?
We don't know because Pete Hegseth is right now hiding the truth.
And sadly, that has become a theme with this administration.
When facts are inconvenienced, they cover up.
So, Secretary Hegseth, release the tapes.
mimi geerges
That was Senator Schumer.
And we are taking your calls for the next 20 minutes on Venezuela, the possibility of land strikes.
This is James in Texas, Democrat.
Go ahead, James.
unidentified
Yes, good morning to you all from behind enemy lines here in Texas.
I think Donald Trump has already taken over the United States government, and anything that we say or do rings hollow.
Anything.
He ignores everything about the United States.
Otherwise, he wouldn't have pardoned President of Honduras that I believe imported over five tons of cocaine to the United States.
So his excuse about stopping drugs coming in to this country from Venezuela, I believe, is put blank hogwash.
He's just, I believe, I could say, I believe he's taking over the United States government.
Anything we say rings hollow.
mimi geerges
All right, James.
And this is the Associated Press on that.
Former Honduras president, Juan Orlando Hernandez, freed after Trump pardon.
It says that he had been sentenced last year to 45 years in prison for his role in a drug trafficking operation that moved hundreds of tons of cocaine to the United States.
He was released from prison yesterday.
Sorry, he was released Monday from a penitentiary in West Virginia.
It says the release of Hernandez, a former U.S. ally whose conviction prosecutors said exposed the depth of cartel influence in Honduras comes just days after the country's presidential election.
Trump defended the decision aboard Air Force One on Sunday, saying Hondurans believed Hernandez had been set up, even as prosecutors argued he protected drug traffickers who moved hundreds of tons of cocaine through the country.
It also unfolds against the backdrop of Trump's aggressive counter-narcotics push that has triggered intense controversy across Latin America.
That's at the Associated Press.
And Glenn in Texas, Republican.
Good morning, Glenn.
unidentified
Well, good lord, C-SPAN.
Glad to be on your show again.
Well, I tell you what, on this drug boat, we have enough military out there in the Caribbean to stop one and investigate exactly what they're carrying and who the people are that are carrying it.
That will shut the Democrats up for good.
Nobody cares about Schumer anymore.
He's lost his clout.
He's on his way out.
That's one way we can find out who is shipping the cocaine in these drug boats and where it was destinated to go.
Now, that's what we need to do on the next boat that comes over the Caribbean.
And all right, Glenn.
mimi geerges
Eric in Hico, Texas, Independent Line.
Good morning, Eric.
unidentified
Good morning.
Thank you for C-SPAN.
And I just had a couple of observations.
We know most of the drugs come through the international bridges on the border between Texas and Mexico or Arizona and Mexico.
When these cars come through, or these semis come through loaded with drugs, they arrest these people.
They never charge them with terrorism, but they're calling these other drug people terrorists.
Okay?
And when these cars come through, they never blow up a car.
They never blow up a truck.
They don't kill everybody in the car.
And my second observation is: Trump pardoned a crypto king so that he would help the Trump family with their crypto business.
It makes sense to pardon a cocaine king if he won't help running the cocaine business.
I suspect that Trump is trying, obvious, to put himself into the cocaine business where he can make billions of dollars like the cartels do.
mimi geerges
All right, Eric.
Jim in Belton, Missouri, Democrat.
Go ahead, Jim.
unidentified
Yeah, a couple of things, real quick.
First of all, the previous caller mentioned, a previous caller mentioned that he thought that the president had already taken over the country.
And I have to echo that sentiment.
I believe that we're pretty close.
I believe that the demonstration of these boats has as much to do with taking civilian oversight of our military away.
In other words, they're dividing once again and trying to make the military confused so that they can either be responsive to congressional oversight or competent civilian authority.
I believe that that's what's at work here.
I believe this is just another step in securing total power for the president.
I believe that's what's going on here.
mimi geerges
Let's check in with the text.
We've got this from Frank and Bend Oregon.
He says, in my opinion, President Trump is in the right, but I also believe that more nations than just Venezuela should be taken over.
Sandy in Bloomington, Indiana texts, I completely oppose land strikes on Venezuela.
Apparently, Trump has been bombing boats without any proof they are transporting drugs.
I can only assume the same would be true of land strikes.
His actions are totally illegal, and he and his cronies need to be held accountable.
Here's Bill in Ohio, Republican.
Hi, Bill.
unidentified
Good morning.
Yeah, I approve of everything he's doing.
You know, the war on drugs, when did that start?
You know, I believe that was back in the 80s, late 70s, early 80s, right?
And it's just ridiculous to me that people are opposing this.
For every one of those drug boats that gets through, how many people die and how long has it been going on?
And the whole thing, you know, just even with Biden's open border, they all flooded up in here from Venezuela out of their jails.
They emptied their jails and sent them up here.
And how many Americans are dead just from that border fiasco, you know, raped and murdered.
And Venezuela, hey, he's a narco-terrorist.
He's allowing this to happen.
It's time to show the gloves are off.
It's time to show them, you know, they've been poking the bear for a long, long time.
And now they got somebody with the nerve to do it.
So there's going to be a whole lot of shortage of drugs on the streets here.
And that's a great, great thing.
And Colombia as well.
That's where all the COP is coming.
Colombia, Bolivia, Peru, they all need to knock it off.
You know, we had drug problems here, and that's a terrible thing.
We have a lot of drug customers there in Europe.
So, well, it's time to end it all.
mimi geerges
So, Bill, would you support regime change in Venezuela?
Would you support the United States forcing Maduro out?
What do you think of that?
unidentified
Yeah, he's a criminal.
He's a narco-terrorist, like Nordiega.
Same thing.
mimi geerges
All right.
And this is what Secretary of State Marco Rubio was on Hannity, and this is Fox News.
Marco Rubio says Trump will not be succored by Maduro like Biden.
It says this.
This is his quote.
The Maduro regime is not a legitimate government.
What it is, is a transshipment organization.
It allows cocaine and other drugs that are produced in Colombia to be trafficked through Venezuelan territory and, with the cooperation of elements of the regime, are allowed to leave Venezuela on airplanes and ships headed towards the United States.
It says that's at foxnews.com if you'd like to see that article.
And Angela in Virginia, Independent Line.
Hi, Angela.
unidentified
Good morning.
Thank you for having me on this morning.
I would like to say, as long as we have the separation of the news articles coming out, people have said different scenarios of what is going on.
People who listen to conservative stations like Fox believe one thing and they're said what Fox wants them to hear and other news organizations.
So we have this division of what is actually happening.
But we do know that murder is not acceptable.
Why not stop the boats, find out what's on them, find out who the people are instead of just murdering them out in the middle of the ocean?
mimi geerges
So, Angela, I mean, the administration says that we're at war with the drug cartels.
And so that that.
Yeah, go ahead.
unidentified
When did we declare war?
War again, too.
The drugs?
I mean, where are we at war?
I think that Donald Trump wants to say we're at war.
So when it's time for him to get out of office, he can stay in.
So he's creating all these scenarios.
He's not building a big ballroom to leave office.
He's trying to stay there.
mimi geerges
All right, Angela.
And the Senate Majority Leader, John Thune, weighed in on potential of a war with Venezuela yesterday.
Here he is.
john thune
Are we at war in the Caribbean?
unidentified
And if so, should the president declare war and or should Congress approve an authorization?
john thune
I think the president is acting under his authority as commander-in-chief in a way that's consistent with what past administrations have done.
And clearly, there is a has a war has been waged by these drug cartels against the United States, and it has come at a great cost to American citizens.
We've lost tens of thousands of lives in just the past year to these drug cartels.
So I think the president is operating within his authorities.
I think that the fundamental question is, is the country safer than it was under the Biden administration?
I think the answer to that is unequivocally yes.
I think the Trump administration and that the peace through strength policies that they are employing around the world are making our country safer.
And so Secretary Hagseth is a part of that.
He serves at the pleasure of the president.
And I am sure that with regard to the latest question that you all have been raising, that the Senate Armed Services Committee, which is going to look into and get the facts on some of the events that have happened down the Caribbean, that we will get those answers in due time.
But I have every confidence that the policies that this administration is employing when it comes to keeping people in this country safe and ensuring that our policy is one of peace through strength, that those policies are being adhered to and followed.
mimi geerges
That was the Senate Majority Leader Jon Thune.
And let's talk to Joshua, an Illinois Democrat.
Good morning, Joshua.
unidentified
Hi, good morning, everybody.
It just amazes me that Republicans want to claim themselves to be patriots.
When they want to let the president basically operate without any oversight, you have Senator Thune now saying that they want to oversight of the Armed Services Representative Eckert now saying that Republican here saying that oversight is due when Democrats back in October were asking for oversight and briefings on the intelligence of the Trende Agua terrorists.
I'll remind people that the last time a high-level Trende Agua member was caught was under the Biden administration in 2024.
If you look on the Department of Justice website, you'll see that he prosecuted and caught somebody.
Why is it that this administration can't capture any terrorist high-level terrorists or even name one high-level terrorist that's in Venezuela or in the United States?
Also, I'm from Chicago, so they raided a Chicago apartment, landed black copters on top of a roof, and rappelled down and came in like a military force claiming that there was trende agua terrorists in that apartment building.
When you go back and look in the court documents show that zero terrorists were arrested.
So again, Republicans just want to let this president operate like a complete fascist dictator, and they can't claim to be Americans if they don't want to constitute Joshua.
mimi geerges
Who rappelled down an apartment building?
Was that the National Guard or was that ICE?
unidentified
This was ICE.
This was ICE when they rappelled off the Black Hawk helicopters onto an apartment building in the south side of Chicago.
They claimed that the reason was that they were investigating Sendiagua terrorists that were located.
There were Venezuelans that were arrested, but zero terrorists are arrested.
You know, this administration just wants to label people terrorists so that they can do whatever they want, like previous callers had said.
mimi geerges
Jerry, Republican, Forked River, New Jersey, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hi, good morning.
I have a statement and then two small questions.
I'm a critical care registered nurse.
I work in the ER.
And over the last four years, when Biden was in, our overdoses doubled.
And also, about 80% were overdoses with cocaine and fentanyl in their systems.
There was about 20% with hydroxycodone and other NARCs, but about 80% were cocaine with fentanyl overdoses.
Now, my two questions are, so we know that the fentanyl is coming in.
When Biden was in office and he bombed that entire family and children, was that a war crime?
Or when Obama drone killed four Americans, was that a war crime?
mimi geerges
Sorry, Jerry, go back to the family.
unidentified
Remind me about the family that you said Biden bombed in Afghanistan when we were leaving and the 13 military people were killed in retaliation.
Didn't he bomb and it ended up killing a family with several children?
mimi geerges
That's right.
I remember now.
And then your other was about crime?
Was it the first crime?
unidentified
Okay.
Was that a war crime when he killed an entire family?
Hello?
mimi geerges
So you're asking me, and you wanted to know, your second question was about Obama on the drone strikes of an American citizen.
unidentified
Four Americans were killed in the drone strike.
I'm not sure if it was Libya.
I know he bombed like five or six different countries during his two terms.
But didn't he also kill four Americans in a drone bombing?
Okay.
mimi geerges
And this is Mark in Floral Park, New York, Independent Line.
Go ahead, Mark.
unidentified
Good morning.
This situation that we have here, I'm just an American giving my opinions.
Number one, P. Texett is very capable.
You can tell he knows what he's doing.
He's a student of war.
He knows how to protect the country.
Number two, these drug dealers, they are terrorists.
They're not political terrorists.
They're terrorists on our children.
And number three, Trump will do anything to protect American citizens.
And that is my opinion, generally speaking.
Thanks, Megan.
mimi geerges
All right, Mark.
Let's talk to Emilio in Huntington.
This is Republican line.
Good morning.
unidentified
Good morning.
Two quick points.
The Geneva Conventions only applies to signatory nations in times of hostile war, and it's written to protect sick and wounded soldiers, prisoners of wars, and innocent civilians.
An narco-trafficker carrying illicit drugs in international waters on a speedboat or a submarine, that's not the innocent civilians I would argue that the conventions would try to protect, even if we're not in hostile conflict with Venezuela.
And the second point: in 1801, the Barbary pirates were menacing the Mediterranean and demanding tribute from U.S. ships.
Thomas Jefferson, with our congressional approval, authorized naval action.
He sent the Marines and the Navy to blockade Tripoli, intercept the menacing ships, and he also bombarded Tripoli and other pirate bases.
And he did it through the War Powers Act with our congressional approval.
What President Trump is doing is no different.
So if you're an arco-trafficker in international waters carrying illicit drugs, I don't have sympathy for you.
We should be going afterwards, after you.
And over the last 40, 50 years, you know, law enforcement action hasn't worked.
I mean, the drugs keep coming.
So something needs to be done to protect our country.
mimi geerges
All right, Emilio, that's the last word for that segment, but there's a lot more to come.
Later on, the Washington Journal, we'll be joined by Republican William Timmons of South Carolina, the first of two lawmakers joining us this morning to talk about tensions with Venezuela and the quickly approaching end-of-year deadline to address those expiring ACA subsidies.
But first, after the break, there's new scrutiny of Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's role in that follow-up strike on a suspected drug boat.
We'll get the latest from Mike Brest, Pentagon reporter for the Washington Examiner.
We'll be right back.
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Washington Journal continues.
mimi geerges
Welcome back to Washington Journal.
We're joined now by Mike Brest.
He is defense reporter for the Washington Examiner.
Welcome to the program.
unidentified
Thank you for having me.
mimi geerges
All right, so let's talk first about that second strike on the alleged drug boat in September and what you learned from yesterday's cabinet meeting.
unidentified
So the first thing that we should talk about is that this strike occurred or the series of strikes targeting this vessel was on September 2nd.
And so Secretary Hegset said yesterday that he was in the room when the initial operation happened.
He talked about the fog of war, seeing the wreckage of the vessel.
He then left and went about his day, he said.
And it was after he left the military operators involved in the mission realized that there were survivors clinging to the wreckage.
It was at that point after the Secretary had left that the military senior officer in charge ordered another strike to target the survivors of the initial operation.
And so the Secretary was very clear in saying that he supported the Admiral's decision to carry out the follow-up strike, but he was not in the room for it and did not know about it before it occurred.
mimi geerges
So this is Navy Admiral Frank Bradley.
What do we know about him?
unidentified
So he has been in special operations for a long time.
He's been in charge of operations overseas in the Middle East.
He's been now in charge of these operations in the Caribbean.
And so he's had a long historic career.
And it's really only in a matter of the last couple days and weeks that he has really come under scrutiny in Washington.
mimi geerges
And does that comport kind of with your reporting that Secretary Hagseth was not in the room when that second strike happened?
unidentified
So it's hard to tell because all of this information about this first strike is coming out now, now almost more than two months later.
And so a lot of the reporting that myself and other journalists in the national security realm have focused on have been the continuation of these strikes, not looking at necessarily the first one.
And so there have been more than 20 of these operations targeting various vessels that the government says are coming from Venezuela carrying drugs to the United States, and they've killed more than 80 people at this point.
mimi geerges
Where did that reporting come from?
What are the sources for that second strike that killed the two survivors?
unidentified
So it's unclear exactly where some of the anonymous reporting is coming from, but we can only take some of that reporting with a grain of salt and combine it with the acknowledgments we have from defense officials who have come out and spoken publicly, like the Secretary.
mimi geerges
So Admiral Frank Bradley will be talking to lawmakers tomorrow.
This is a closed, classified briefing.
C-SPAN cameras will not be there, unfortunately.
But will there be a readout?
Will we find out what happened?
unidentified
So I'm sure that the lawmakers who are very eager to hear from him will be coming back and speaking to the media about what they heard.
And so you're right that we, I would love to be a fly on the wall of that briefing room, but we won't be there because it's a closed-door briefing.
And so hopefully he'll be there to answer their questions and then those lawmakers will likely leave and be able to inform reporters whether or not he was able to satisfy their questions.
mimi geerges
Now some lawmakers have said that this could amount to a war crime.
Has that ever happened before that there has been accusations of war crimes and then what happens?
unidentified
So there have been throughout the history of the U.S. military several instances where there are accusations of war crimes dating back to various conflicts.
And so there are investigations.
There can be demotions or people held responsible for decisions that were made in the fog of war.
mimi geerges
Now, the Wall Street Journal actually on the front page is talking about Secretary Hegseth, and their headline is: Hegseth has long sought new rules for war.
It talks about the controversy around his statements, calling them, you know, he's complained about, quote, stupid rules of engagement and talked about it in his book.
What do we know about where he stands on this idea of no, you cannot strike, you know, combatants that have been disabled and can't fight anymore?
unidentified
So, as you said, I think a great place to look for Secretary Hegseth's personal ideology on the subject is his own writing and his own discussions before he was in the position he's currently in.
And so, when you look back at even the book he wrote, a theme of that and how what he's carried over into his term as Secretary of Defense or Secretary of War is that people in Washington, in his opinion, should not be dictating the way active duty service members carry out their operations.
You know, he doesn't believe that politicians who are not in jeopardy on the front line should necessarily be policing the way service members are carrying out life and death situations.
mimi geerges
And besides this classified briefing tomorrow, what else is planned on the Hill around this topic?
unidentified
So, the Secretary himself is expected to address the Pentagon's new media corps later today if that goes on as scheduled.
And so, there are, we could expect to see additional briefings if the Senate Armed Services and House Armed Services Committee are not satisfied with whatever comes of tomorrow's briefing with Admiral Bradley.
So, it's unclear exactly what the pathway forward is, but we know that lawmakers are itching to get more information about not just the second strike of the first operation, but the entire strategy so far and moving forward.
mimi geerges
Mike Brest is in the studio with us.
He will take your calls.
He's a defense reporter for the Washington Examiner.
You can go ahead and start giving us a call now if you'd like to talk to him.
Republicans are on 202-748-8001, Democrats 202-748-8000, and Independents 202-748-8002.
And our line for active and former military is 202-748-8003.
I want to ask you about the Pentagon, has said that they will conduct a thorough review of Senator Mark Kelly.
He's obviously former military.
He's a retired Navy captain.
Tell us where that stands now.
unidentified
So, the Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth, has asked the Secretary of the Navy, John Phelan, to conduct this interview that you mentioned, and he's expecting a readout of that investigation around this time next week.
And so, we should or could see movement on this as early as the middle of next week when this Hegseth deadline comes through.
mimi geerges
Investigation of what exactly?
unidentified
So, Secretary Hegseth, or excuse me, Secretary Hegseth has called for an investigation into Senator Mark Kelly and the five other Democrats who participated in this video that came out about two weeks ago now, in which they warned service members not to carry out illegal orders.
And so, it was a little bit of a double negative there, even in their delivery.
And so, their belief is that service members needed a reminder not to carry out illegal orders and that they personally can be held responsible if they do so.
That is long-standing U.S. law dating back to the Vietnam War.
You cannot use the my commander told me to as a defense of committing a war crime.
So the Secretary and the Pentagon believe these six Democrats, even though they were repeating factual U.S. law, they were subtly trying to undermine both the Secretary and the President's agenda of what they're trying to accomplish.
And so Secretary Hagseth has ordered the interview, or the, excuse me, has ordered the investigation into Senator Mark Kelly because he's the only one of the six that are still legally required to abide by the UCMJ or the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
And so this investigation of the Navy's carrying out could play out in a number of different ways.
Some of the military legal experts have told me that they don't believe accurately repeating U.S. law is worthy of a crime.
However, there are different laws that adjudicate the UCMJ versus these traditional law.
And that's why, even though we could in theory see an investigation by the Department of Justice, we haven't yet.
mimi geerges
So what could happen to Senator Kelly?
unidentified
So in theory, if, and this is, again, dependent upon the Navy's review, but they could recommend that Senator Mark Kelly is brought back to active duty to be court-martialed, in which he could face charges under the UCMJ.
However, that is getting ahead of ourselves a little bit in terms of not knowing what exactly the Navy review will find.
mimi geerges
And typically, the people in the military that are going to determine, you know, this is legal order, this is according to the laws of war, are JAG officers.
Tell us about their role and where we are with the top JAG officers in the military currently.
unidentified
So it's interesting you brought that up because Secretary Hagseth earlier this year dismissed many of the top judge advocate generals, their JAG officers, who essentially provide somewhat of a check on the way the military is operating.
They often will provide either a green light or somewhat of a red light in terms of the conduct potentially being carried out.
mimi geerges
And what was the rationale that he gave for dismissing them?
unidentified
There was little rationale given at the time.
And so one of the things that we're seeing now is between his comments to tie in our whole conversation to his comments about sort of restrictions placed on military from Washington, he also sort of lumps in JAG officers into that collective burden that he feels sort of outsiders are placing on the way service members carry out their operations.
mimi geerges
Even though they're not outsiders?
unidentified
They're not.
They are, I would say, checks on the way the people on the front lines operate.
And so anyway, for anyone who is not right there in the front lines, he says he will have service members' backs.
And there is a lot of comments to believe that these are the types of situations he's talking about in which there may be some concern about the legality, but he will come to their defense as he has with Admiral Bradley.
mimi geerges
All right, let's talk to callers and we'll start with James in Akron, Ohio, Democrat.
James, good morning.
You're on with Mike Brest.
unidentified
Yes.
I have a couple of problems.
First of all, this thing will not mute.
Why?
Well, I don't understand.
We got this stuff going on.
Donald Trump's saying he knows nothing about anything.
He has said, according to him, he's the most uninformed person in the world.
And generals and people in the military, they have been interviewed several times over the years stating the same things that these people put on recording.
I don't understand what they're trying to do.
First of all, we are blowing up people way on the other side of the world.
You might as well say to stop.
mimi geerges
Uh-oh.
James, did we lose you?
Ed in Ohio, Republican and a former military member.
Go ahead, Ed.
unidentified
Yeah, I was a commander of Navy SEALs.
The same ones that just took these ships out.
Okay, these boats, what multiple engines, high speed, made for drug running.
There was no comments for the whole eight years of Obama.
He did over 20-some strikes, killed innocent civilians.
President Biden, my president, too, killed how many children in a car.
Total Miss Target.
The fake news never mentioned not one word.
There's over 400,000 deaths from these drugs coming in, more than since World War II to today.
Every death and every war we've had combined doesn't make the deaths in the last four years.
Not even the first year, the war on drugs in our border was shut down.
There was 33,000 the last year Trump was in in his last election.
mimi geerges
So sorry.
Sorry, Ed, you said you were a commander of what?
unidentified
This isn't a war crime.
These guys follow the orders exactly.
You sink them boats, they're not sucked, you hit them again completely.
Another ship comes, gets to picks up the drugs and gets them back over here.
Everything was by the book.
And the way the fake news does.
mimi geerges
You said you were a Navy SEAL, Ed?
unidentified
I want to know this guy's opinion about it.
mimi geerges
You said you were a Navy SEAL.
I'm just clarifying.
Is that what you said?
unidentified
I was a commander of five.
My man Cardney Lazarus.
Prophet.
Every one of them we know.
They're still alive.
We're all out.
You can fuck any Navy SEAL.
All right.
mimi geerges
Let's get a response.
unidentified
So I think he brings.
mimi geerges
He said it was not a war crime.
I know you're not a lawyer, but.
unidentified
You're right.
I'm not a lawyer, so I'll leave that to the people who are experts.
I think he raised an interesting point, which is about the drugs themselves.
And so most of the drugs that come from Venezuela actually is cocaine and it comes through Colombia.
America widely views fentanyl as one of the most deadly drugs available on the black market.
And so fentanyl does not, for the most part, come from Venezuela.
It comes from Mexico.
And so that's why the president has, for several months now, talked here and there about possible drone strikes in Mexico targeting drug cartel labs there.
And so the chemicals that the Mexican drug cartels use to create fentanyl from China.
And that's why FBI Director Kash Patel went to China last month to talk about trying to restrict the sales of these precursor chemicals to North America.
And so it's still unclear how committed the Chinese are to this mission in terms of this latest announcement from the FBI director.
But fentanyl largely comes from Mexico.
And the Trump administration largely views the Mexican president, Claudio Schombine, as an allied who's overpowered.
Whereas when you compare it to Venezuela, they view Nicolas Maduro as the head of the snake.
And so even though it's cocaine and not fentanyl that's coming from Venezuela, the Trump administration stances that the illegitimate leader of the country, Nicolas Maduro, is the kingpin, for lack of a better words, the head of the snake, as opposed to in Mexico where they see a beleaguered ally in need.
mimi geerges
And do we have any numbers as far as the amount of fentanyl coming into the country and what the level is at this point as opposed to a year ago?
unidentified
I don't have the specifics.
Border and drug enforcement is a little outside my purview.
But I will say that according to my research, there were about 50,000 fentanyl overdoses in 2023 in America.
And so it is clearly a significant problem, both fentanyl overdoses as well as all types of overdoses.
And so the administration's viewpoint is that they are carrying out these operations to prevent them in the future.
mimi geerges
All right.
Here is a Republican in Naples, Maine.
Sean, good morning.
You're on the air.
unidentified
Good morning.
I find it a little confusing that everybody's up in arms about striking these boats in Venezuela because the people supposedly couldn't defend themselves.
What about the 60,000 women and children that just died over the last couple of years in Gaza?
How come there's no big inquiries or questions about that?
Congress doesn't seem to be too concerned about that.
I think it's an interesting point about where we put our energy and what we focus on.
The war in Gaza was a horrible conflict spanning two years, and it feels like the administration is slowly inching towards success in the region and creating a more stable Gaza.
But there's still several unanswered questions in the region, particularly about is Hamas willing to demilitarize?
Is Hezbollah willing to demilitarize in Lebanon below the Latani River, which they were obligated to do based on that ceasefire, whether or not Iran is trying to rebuild its nuclear program.
And so while there is somewhat of a simmering in the Middle East, there are a lot of unanswered questions.
mimi geerges
And then the questions about war crimes during that war.
unidentified
Absolutely.
And that goes into future investigations.
mimi geerges
Here's William, a Democrat in Brooklyn, New York.
Good morning.
unidentified
Good morning.
It's laughable to me how to say this is a war on drugs.
And all these people that was killed by the drugs coming in from Venezuela, but still yet he goes and pardon someone that was convicted, convicted of killing all these people as a kingpin of drugs.
It makes no sense to me.
And the Republicans just sit there and say nothing.
mimi geerges
What do you think, Mike?
unidentified
The president's pardon of the former Honduran president accused of leading a drug operation was a little surprising.
It was surprising to me.
And the administration and the president himself have alleged that the Biden DOJ was somehow involved in some sort of nefarious behavior behind the conviction.
But the investigation into the Honduran president started during President Trump's first term.
And so I do think it'll be interesting to see if there's any additional fallout or any additional questions from Capitol Hill about what prompted it.
mimi geerges
And he has been released from prison.
Do we know where he is?
Is he going to live in the United States?
Does he go back to Honduras?
unidentified
I don't have the answers at the top of my head right now, but I would suspect he's not planning on staying in America long term.
mimi geerges
Here is Eugene in Boston, Independent.
Good morning, Eugene.
unidentified
Good morning.
Yes.
You know, this whole thing with the drugs, I think it's just all really smoke and mirrors.
Okay, because look, for decades, the United States government dropped drugs in inner-city black communities to destroy black families.
Okay?
And so, you know, it just seems to me that the bigger question is that why are white folks in America such huge drug addicts?
Because for decades, America portrayed black men as women, as drug dealers, and users and addicts.
And it's just being exposed now who the real drug addicts really are.
I don't want one thin dime of my money going towards the drug crisis or opiate crisis.
Not one thin dime.
That's all I have to say.
mimi geerges
All right.
Let's talk to Ron, former military in Boonboro, Maryland.
Good morning, Ron.
unidentified
Good morning.
I just want to make a comment about the Admiral in this case.
I can't predict he's going to get replaced by somebody else.
rep walter jones
And if I was him, I would record every phone call and every piece of mail he gets, orders he gets, just to keep himself straight.
unidentified
That's my prediction.
mimi geerges
What do you think, Mike?
unidentified
I think he raises an interesting point, which is that the Secretary and the President in the White House have gone out of their way to be very explicit in that neither the President nor the Secretary were aware of the follow-up strikes until after they occurred.
And so there are Democrats on Capitol Hill who are suggesting that the administration is doing so with the intent to try and create some distance between themselves and this particular strike, even though they broadly supported the operation.
And so it's unclear exactly how that will play out or if there will be any fallout towards Admiral Bradley directly.
mimi geerges
What could happen to Admiral Bradley?
unidentified
There could be an investigation.
It's unclear exactly who would be involved in such a hypothetical.
mimi geerges
What's the worst case scenario for him?
unidentified
I would have to guess it would probably be something like a court martial eventually, which could lead to potential charges, but I think we are...
mimi geerges
Like criminal charges?
unidentified
It could be.
I am speculating at this point.
I'm not a lawyer.
But I do think the fact that the administration is going out of their way to publicly put a face to this second strike or secondary strikes and distance themselves from it should be an indication that there is some concern on the part of the White House.
mimi geerges
Here's Thomas in Pennsylvania, Democrat.
Good morning, Thomas.
unidentified
Good morning.
I just wanted to say that the woman from Maryland is absolutely correct.
This is all about Venezuela's oil.
The oil reserves is fourth in the world.
And as far as Venezuela's internal struggle with its own self, Brazil took care of their president.
They got him on house arrest.
I think he's in jail now.
And for those who think that Donald Trump is doing such a great job, why would he pardon a full-blown, full-fledged narco-terrorist from Honduras?
Nobody's answering that question.
mimi geerges
Any comment, Mike?
unidentified
I think there is the interesting point that we haven't really talked about much, which is what does an expansion of this current operation look like?
And it centers around Nicolas Maduro.
And so the President has said he's spoken with Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro.
The president has also said previously that he has approved the CIA to carry out covert operations in Venezuela.
And he periodically talks about having approved strikes on Venezuelan soil, even though we haven't seen any yet.
And so it raises the question of if the military, if he gives the green light to the military to carry out strikes on Venezuelan soil, what would be the target and is the objective the permanent removal of Nicolas Maduro from power?
mimi geerges
Now remind me how many Marines are actually there in theater.
unidentified
There are about, I would say, 15,000 sailors and Marines in the Caribbean.
mimi geerges
And what are they doing exactly right now?
unidentified
So there are a number of different vessels.
Some are tasked with carrying out the actual operations where the munitions leave from.
Others are involved specifically in gathering the intelligence and tracking the individuals and the suspects that they follow.
And so there is a significant amount of firepower in the region.
It's one of the largest buildups of U.S. power in the Western Hemisphere in several decades.
And so a lot of it goes to the intelligence collection that they require and then synthesize to carry out the operations.
mimi geerges
Let's talk to Brian in Georgia, Independent Outline.
Go ahead, Brian.
unidentified
Yes, good morning.
Good morning, Mimi and Mr. Bress.
My question is that in prior years, I guess specifically before, let's say the Korean conflict, that when we as Americans looked at issues that were affecting our country,
which certainly the influx of drugs and fentanyl and opioids and other narcotics has been a negative stain on our country, we've taken a much more bipartisan,
much more unified approach to trying to eliminate the scourge and trying to stop negative things from happening to our country and happening to our citizens.
And I guess my question for you, Mr. Bress, is, you know, how do we change that dynamic?
How do we change that viewpoint and take this from being a bipartisan or political issue that becomes this discussion about whether or not President Trump was involved in some kind of war crime and whether or not the quote-unquote seditious six or whether Senator Kelly or Senator Slotkin are involved in some kind of seditious behavior,
nick in oklahoma
whether or not the Washington Post is making a true reporting or whether or not the New York Times is making a proper reporting or we've got so much conflict in reporting and analytical angles of this issue.
unidentified
And my question for you as the Washington insider is, what do we do to make this a much more unified concern to do?
mimi geerges
Got it, Brian.
unidentified
I think the answer is to humanize any issue.
And so we're talking about drug boats and we're talking about individuals that the military has killed, but we're also talking about the people who have overdosed in the past and their loved ones.
And so I mentioned the number of people who died of fentanyl overdoses in 2023, but the total number of people who have overdosed every year is around 100,000.
And they have family members who are missing their loved ones.
And so it's remembering that the ultimate objective should be to prevent overdose deaths, however that happens.
And there should be several angles Washington can and should take to prevent that.
mimi geerges
Remind us of the commander that retired.
This would be the Admiral overseeing U.S. Southern Command.
He retired early.
Tell us about that.
unidentified
So he actually is expected.
His formal retirement is the end of next week.
And so he announced his retirement about eight weeks in advance.
And so he has announced his decision to retire about one year into what is usually a three-year term.
And so he has not given any public remarks since he announced his retirement.
And so it has led a lot of speculation into why someone who has dedicated their life to this service would suddenly announce their retirement one year into a three-year term of a position that they are holding at the culmination of their life's work.
And so we are still waiting to hear why exactly he has chosen to resign.
But I do think to go back to the question of possible oversight, once he retires, I do think we could see him potentially take a trip to Capitol Hill to talk to lawmakers.
mimi geerges
Once he retires, why not now?
unidentified
I think it is a lot.
I think right now he's probably very focused on the mission at hand.
And I think he has a little bit more flexibility probably both in his schedule and in his ability to talk to lawmakers once he is no longer in his position.
mimi geerges
All right, that's Mike Brest, defense reporter for the Washington Examiner.
His work is at Washingtonexaminer.com.
Thanks so much for coming in.
unidentified
Thank you for having me.
mimi geerges
At about 9 a.m. Eastern Time on the Washington Journal, we'll talk with Sean VanDiver, founder and president of Afghan EVAC.
It's a nonprofit run by American veterans helping to evacuate and resettle Afghans who assisted the U.S. during the two-decade war.
But first, right after the break, we'll have Republican William Timmons of South Carolina, the first of two lawmakers on the program, will talk about the tensions with Venezuela and the quickly approaching end of year deadline to address those expiring ACA subsidies.
We'll be right back.
donald j trump
So you interviewed the other night.
I watched it about two o'clock in the morning.
unidentified
There was a little thing called C-SPAN, which I don't know how many people were watching.
donald j trump
Don't worry, you were in prime time too, but they happen to have a little rerun.
patty murray
Do you really think that we don't remember what just happened last week?
Thank goodness for C-SPAN, and we all should review the tape.
unidentified
Everyone wonders when they're watching C-SPAN what the conversations are on the floor.
al green
I'm about to read to you something that was published by C-SPAN.
sean duffy
There's a lot of things that Congress fights about, that they disagree on.
al green
We can all watch that on C-SPAN.
unidentified
Millions of people across the country tuned into C-SPAN.
That was a make-for-C-SPAN moment.
If you watch on C-SPAN, you're going to see me physically across the aisle every day, just trying to build relationships and try to understand their perspective and find common ground.
And welcome for to everybody watching at home.
We know C-SPAN covers this live as well.
We appreciate that.
And one can only hope that he's able to watch C-SPAN on a black and white television set in his prison cell.
This is being carried live by C-SPAN.
It's being watched not only in this country, but it's being watched around the world right now.
donald j trump
Mike said before I happened to listen to him, he was on C-SPAN 1.
That's a big upgrade, right?
al green
And past president.
Why are you doing this?
unidentified
This is outrageous.
This is a kangaroo quarter.
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Washington Journal continues.
mimi geerges
Welcome back to Washington Journal.
We are in open forum, but while you are calling in, we'll put the numbers on your screen so you can weigh in on anything public affairs related.
We're going to just talk to William Timmons.
He's a representative Republican from South Carolina.
Representative, welcome to the program.
unidentified
Good morning.
Thanks for having me on.
mimi geerges
You are on the Oversight and Government Reform Subcommittee.
You're the chair of that subcommittee.
You're also on financial services.
But regarding oversight, I wanted to ask you about those strikes in Venezuela on the alleged drug boats.
Do you feel that the White House has given adequate legal justification for those strikes?
unidentified
Absolutely.
I think the best way to look at it is what happened on 9-11.
3,000 Americans were killed.
We spent a trillion dollars in 20 years pursuing al-Qaeda to avenge their deaths and to make sure that we were safe.
So this is no different.
100,000 Americans have died every year for the last few years because fentanyl is coming into our country.
And so President Trump got elected to secure the border and now he's going across the border and he's seeking out terrorist organizations.
The cartels are terrorist organizations.
They make billions of dollars a year off of killing Americans.
So we are appropriately holding them accountable and we're not going to stop.
mimi geerges
And when you say fentanyl, as you know, fentanyl mostly comes from Mexico.
Would you be in favor of military action against Mexico as well?
unidentified
I'm in favor of holding the cartels accountable.
If they want to stop selling drugs to Americans, I'm happy to just leave it at that, but that's not going to happen.
So we're going to have to take action against all cartels that are killing Americans.
It's as simple as that.
mimi geerges
And sir, you are a JAG officer for the South Carolina Air National Guard and a captain there as well.
So I wanted to ask you about legal justification, specifically that second strike on the boat on September 2nd and your thoughts on that.
unidentified
I've heard a lot of different reporting.
I'm unclear exactly what occurred and who gave what order when.
So until I have that information, I wouldn't be able to give you a justification or any thoughts on it.
But I've heard different reporting, and I think that until we actually understand exactly what happened, it would be premature to opine on it.
mimi geerges
When you say who gave the order when, would that make a difference as far as the legality of that strike?
unidentified
Again, I think I didn't have the information.
I'm not going to judge an operation from an armchair.
That's what the media is for.
But I think at the end of the day, killing terrorists is something Americans have done for a long time, and it's something we should continue to do.
mimi geerges
The Military Times has reported that a group of former JAGs have warned that the actions of the Defense Secretary and others ordering those special operations to kill everybody aboard would constitute a war crime, murder, or both.
Do you have any reaction to that?
I don't know if you saw that article.
unidentified
I would be very interested to see how they're registered and what state they're from.
Again, this is all politics.
It's no different than the senators and house members that told service members to disobey illegal orders.
I mean, this is all politics, and it's terrible because our service members are just trying to do their job.
They're trying to protect America and keep us safe.
And so to insert politics into it is not appropriate.
Any illegal order should be disobeyed, but legal orders should be obeyed.
And the military justice system exists for a reason.
So again, this is all politics.
And I want Americans to be safe.
I want to stop talking to my constituents about how sad I am that their loved one died from a fentanyl overdose.
So we're going to continue to hold the cartels accountable, and we're going to continue to do everything we can to keep Americans safe.
mimi geerges
In February, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth fired the Air Force's and Army's top JAG officers, and he commissioned his personal lawyer as the Navy JAG.
Does that concern you at all?
unidentified
I've served in the military for eight years now, and what the last administration did to our military is unforgivable.
They attempted to use the military to insert their DEI policies, and the military has to be the last bastion of pure merit.
And so I don't care what color the skin is or what gender the person is next to me, I want them to be the best.
And we saw again and again in the last administration that they promoted people not based off of merit.
And so, yes, we did have to make some changes because we need to have the right people in the right seat on the bus.
And so, no, I'd have no problem with the Secretary cleaning house because it was long overdue.
mimi geerges
Switching now to the war in Ukraine, Axios reports that the Trump advisor, Steve Witkoff, his son-in-law Jared Kushner, have met with Russian President Putin in the Kremlin.
Where do you think the peace plan stands right now as far as the Russia-Ukraine war and if you worry that it leans too heavily towards Russia at this point?
Or what are your thoughts?
unidentified
I think they're currently negotiating an end to a war that should have never happened.
And again, bad administrations, bad policies have consequences.
And the way that President Biden withdrew from Afghanistan is the reason that we're in this situation.
So I'm kind of shocked that President Trump hasn't been able to end this war yet, but I have a feeling it's happening soon.
I think it's important for people to realize that in the last 10, 11 months, the president has negotiated an end to six, seven different conflicts.
So we are moving in the right direction.
We are leading.
Peace through strength works, but you've got to be strong in order to pursue that objective.
So the president is showing the world that we're not to be trifled with.
Our allies, again, trust us.
Our enemies, again, fear us.
So it's going to take time, but we're going to get the war in Ukraine finished up and the world's going to be better off for it.
mimi geerges
And would you be in favor of Ukraine giving up territory in a potential peace deal?
unidentified
I think there's always going to be push-pull on either side.
The biggest thing is to stop having senseless death occur.
So, obviously, there's different segments of Ukraine that have been occupied at different times.
There's conversations surrounding all of that, and that's the purpose of the negotiations.
I'm confident that the U.S. is going to get the best deal that we can.
And I hope that President Zelensky is coming to the table to achieve the objective of peace.
mimi geerges
And finally, about the Expiring Affordable Care Act subsidies.
House Democrats are pushing for a three-year extension.
Where do you stand on that?
unidentified
Well, the Democrats' attempt to throw money at a problem is not the first, nor will it be the last time that's been their solution.
Spending trillions of dollars on subsidies is not the solution.
We need to overhaul our system.
We've got to stop treating sickness and delaying death and start facilitating health and wellness.
We spend four times more than any developed country, and we have some of the worst outcomes.
I mean, it's just shocking.
It's shocking.
Our obesity rate is tragic, and we need to use diet and exercise as the solution.
We've got to incentivize people to make better decisions.
We can't just keep throwing pills and shots at it.
So the answer is not more taxpayer dollars.
We have $37 trillion in debt.
We have major challenges financially.
So throwing money at healthcare is not the solution.
We need to really rework it from the ground up.
mimi geerges
So as far as the subsidies, obviously you're not going to have time to rework it from the ground up before December 31st.
So you are in favor of those subsidies expiring and then maybe working on a different plan later?
unidentified
We have a number of different proposals.
I'm not on the committee of jurisdiction, but there's a number of different proposals to try to address health care affordability.
But again, throwing money at the problem is not the solution.
mimi geerges
All right, that's Representative William Timmons.
He's a Republican of South Carolina.
Thanks so much for joining us today.
unidentified
Thanks for having me on.
mimi geerges
We are in open forum.
We will take your calls.
The numbers are Republicans, 202-748-8001.
Democrats, 202-748-8000.
And Independents, 202-748-8002.
We'll get right to the calls.
William in Houston, Texas, Democrat, you're on the air.
Good morning.
unidentified
Good morning.
Good morning, Cease Van Hawes.
Right quick to that young man that just got you talking to him concerning DNI and the military.
Here's a reason right now that the military that I grew up in is a Vietnam veteran.
That minorities don't make up 65 to 70 percent of the force.
They wouldn't complain about DI when they were snatching us out of the fields in Arkansas, Mississippi, and everywhere she knows Vietnam.
But fast forward to now.
This is simple.
If that admiral is convicted of violating the UMCMJ or the legal order, everybody down below him is convicted that he's in charge, especially those Navy SEALs.
So this is what happens when you take a, if you need a Guinness, and you go get someone that'll repair a lawnmower.
Have a good day.
mimi geerges
Alan in Arkansas, Independent Line, you're next.
unidentified
Wow, good morning.
Well, I am always really nervous when I start a call.
So, and that's on top of having a radio career 50 years ago.
But I'm telling you, every time I get started, I have to try to get my heart right down to under 200.
But so I tried to call, to make just a couple of points, if you'll allow me.
One is on Thanksgiving that I tried to get on last week and just couldn't get through.
And the other is on the Supreme Court case that's being heard.
If I could make those two quick points.
The first is the reasons why the pilgrims, and this will take two minutes or less.
The pilgrims left Holland, not England, when they migrated to America.
And they wrote the three reasons why they left.
And they're so incredibly valuable and important to us in our history.
They said they left because they wanted to save their children.
That they were, they used two words.
They said they were falling into desoluteness and licentiousness.
Those mean the same thing.
Bill, look those up.
And the other was to find an easier place to live.
They said they were getting older before their time.
And the third reason was to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ to the new world.
Now, those are the three reasons they left Holland, not England.
So I just wanted to convey that, to look that up for Thanksgiving.
And the other point that I wanted to make was that I listened to the Supreme Court hearings that you carried last week on the tariffs, and it's the most boring subject.
I'm a retired history teacher, and I tell you, I understand it's the most boring subject ever until this has come up with President Trump pushing for these tariffs, which are the most valuable, important thing for the United States.
And I say that to make the point about William McKinley was responsible for bringing tariffs into such a focus during his presidency, and he made the United States the richest country in the history of the world.
And so I kept watching the Supreme Court case last week, thinking, oh, they're going to be talking about William McKinley the whole time, and he never came up.
So I'm just asking people to please call your senator.
I have, I've called my two senators and my representative to please convey their support to get that message out to their representatives in the Supreme Court to uphold these tariffs in place.
mimi geerges
So, Alan, do you know about the news that came out yesterday?
This is CNBC.
Costco sues the Trump administration seeking tariff refunds before Supreme Court rules if they're illegal.
So they are asking for a refund of the tariffs that they've had to pay.
unidentified
Right, right.
Isn't that just the most preposterous mess you've ever heard?
Look up William McKinley.
mimi geerges
We got that, Alan.
I got to move on.
This is Walter in New York, Republican.
Go ahead, Walter.
unidentified
Good morning, and thank you for taking my call.
And since we're on the tariff agenda there, I will say that I think everybody really forgets.
mimi geerges
Walter?
unidentified
Are you there?
mimi geerges
Yes.
unidentified
People really forget what?
On the tariff thing, I think everybody really forgets that in the big picture with the tariffs.
Yeah, the money's good and everything.
We're going to bring factories back.
These factories are going to, if they don't want to pay the tariff, they're going to bring their company here.
And it's what America needs.
We need to build things again.
And thanks God for President's vision on that.
And I think people forget about that part of it.
The other thing I did want to say is these drug votes.
I'm going to tell you, I'm 52 or three years old, and all my friends are dead.
They're all gone.
Every one of them.
My best friend, my man that was my in the wedding, best man, all my friends are dead.
I got nobody to go hang out with.
This fentanyl crap killed them all.
And these guys weren't even drug addicts, they're having a good time here and there.
They're all dead.
And thank God President Trump is going to try and stop that stuff from coming into our country.
It's terrible.
And the last thing I will leave you with is: I'm a plumber.
I've been plumbing my whole life.
I've had my own business for many, many years.
And I just want to say to Biden, thanks a lot for bringing all these 20 million or so people in.
You really brought the wages down.
You can't even get a living wage.
The living crisis, these people live with many families inside of an apartment or a house that they rent.
They live like kings.
They split the rent.
They make some makeshift walls.
And everybody splits the rent and they can pay.
And that's what landlords want.
And it's truly painful to see.
It's so painful.
When you ride by a house and you see about 10 cars parked out front, little Nissans and Toyotas, you know what's going on.
mimi geerges
So here's Greg, Democrat, Bremerton, Washington.
Good morning, Greg.
unidentified
First of all, I guess that previous caller hasn't heard about the commercial companies buying up all the properties and doing that stuff and not the immigrants.
And second of all, I'd like to make a, I don't know if this is an educational purpose or not, but how Donald Trump always says, I just heard the congressman say something earlier about how he only says this war, it would never happen if I was in charge.
I just want to let every viewer here know that's called a counterfactual claim.
And it's counterfactual reasoning.
And basically it means, and if you give me a second, I'm just going to explain this because it drives me nuts.
This is going across the country everywhere.
And I just want one person to explain this is what it is.
The definition is it's an assertion about a reality that did not occur.
It's used to draw conclusions about the current state of affairs or the speaker's superior competence.
The purpose is it cannot be proven false, which makes it a powerful political or personal maneuver as it places the speaker above accountability for the actual event.
Hindsight bias.
While this is a cognitive error, cognitive error, it often underlies the speaker's confidence when making his claim.
The tendency to perceive events that have already occurred as having been more predictable than they actually were.
mimi geerges
The speaker looks so, Greg, we get your point that you can't prove or disprove a counterfactual without anyway.
unidentified
Just one more thing.
This statement is a powerful, unprovable claim known as a counterfactual.
People quit believing this guy when he says it.
It's a false claim.
And every time he says it, it's false.
mimi geerges
Got it, Greg.
Here's Bruce, Kingston, New York, Independent.
Go ahead, Bruce.
unidentified
Yes, good.
And happy holidays to America.
And I would like to bring up a point that may be more constructive than just repeating what has been out there.
We have a lot of levels and moving parts to the legal, the moral, and the ethical issues that are involved here.
And we will find out over time what the actual facts are to work with.
But I want to point out this something that's easily Googled.
You can find us online.
It costs $6 to $8 million per day to keep the fleet in the Caribbean and to bring it here per day.
And it's sitting there doing nothing while we have other problems in the rest of the world.
It costs approximately $10 million a day to keep the so-called narcotics operations going in the Caribbean.
And that doesn't count either the air flights or the munitions that are involved to attack speedboats, speedboats.
When you do the mass, it's coming out to $600 million per month, which is $180 million, rounding it off for the last three months to be keeping this whole operation going where the mighty United States is basically stepping on small speedboats, which we're not even sure exactly what their status are.
So I think I'd like to point out to the rest of America, which is usually concerned about the finances behind things, that the foundation for this is questionable.
And that's pretty much what I want to say.
I hope other people are.
mimi geerges
Bruce Gary, Allen, Texas Independent.
Hi, Gary.
unidentified
Hello.
Thank you very much for taking my call.
I am a history nut.
I had many, many times that I had a long period of time that I could study history.
And I want to make a statement.
If you look back, there are no orders or directives signed by Adolf Hitler for the Holocaust.
None.
Yet without his knowledge and approval, the Holocaust would never have happened.
Now, do you think Donald Trump and Pete Hegseff do not know about what happened to this boat in the Caribbean?
If you think they don't know it, you're kind of, you know, illiterate on the subject.
And that's all I have to say.
mimi geerges
Here's Lenny in Edison, New Jersey, Republican.
Good morning.
unidentified
Oh, yes.
Good morning.
Thank you for taking my call.
So the thing about these attacks on these boats, so again, the media, they kind of folk, they're very good at deflection.
So the CNNs, the MSNEVers, the real causes, the people that are dying in this country.
So if I told you a jumbo jet crashes every day, I would think that would get people's attention, right?
Because that's how many people die every day from illegal drug overdoses.
So we're preventing people from dying in the country.
And that's what really the media should be focusing on, the people here that are dying, not the people that are bringing in the drugs, the bad guys.
So again, they deflect the attention away from where it really should be.
And if this was being done under the Biden administration, the media would say boo about this.
They wouldn't even say anything about this.
So you get the biased media.
And I agree with the representative from South Carolina said earlier that it's politics.
Because if it was done under, again, the Biden administration, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
So really, it's really focusing on what really the issue is.
And just one more question to you regarding DEI.
So I have a question for you.
So would you be willing to give up your job to a black woman or say a Hispanic woman that was less qualified than you?
mimi geerges
All right.
Alan, Minnesota, Democrat, you're on the air, Alan.
unidentified
Hi.
Well, the Omega people, It just doesn't make any logic.
Anyway, a lot of the people that all these deaths in the United States, I guess, that they claim a lot of it are the parents that's how they teach their kids, Generation X and why their failures in raising their kids is they got to blame somebody.
So let's go kill the people on the boats.
And another point, everybody knows Pete Hex got radicalized when he was in Afghan for 20 years in Iraq, 20 years over there.
He advocated for all the war criminals that were over there just shooting everybody up.
Willy-Nilly, he advocated for them to be released.
And one more thing, Pete put out a tweet before all this came out about the second strike on the boat.
He put out the tweet.
You can look it up.
It says, kill everybody.
So, you know, there's your answer right there.
And now he's distancing himself from the whole thing.
He's putting that ammo on under the bus.
This is how the Trump administration works.
Thanks.
mimi geerges
Stephen and Baltimore, Maryland, Democrat.
Go ahead, Stephen.
unidentified
Okay, first of all, I'd like to ask the people who recorded anything of the last representative who was speaking.
And did he say that stop delaying deaths by, you know, like getting pills?
Can you, somebody rerun that?
mimi geerges
Wait, say that again?
What was the question?
Say it again.
unidentified
I didn't.
He said that essentially people should stop delaying death by giving medical care.
I do believe that that's what he said.
That's the first thing.
And the second thing is that, you know, the stories from, you know, like I'm a foundational black American, the stories from my family of having to run or be hung.
I'll just say that I don't think America has changed at all because just like they used to hang black people without evidence, without a lot of evidence for doing something they didn't do, now they're blown up.
They just blow the speedboats now.
So it's the same.
So I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
White America hasn't changed at all.
They do things without having a ton of evidence or even a good amount of evidence.
mimi geerges
So, Stephen, regarding what the congressman said, you can go back and watch the entire thing on our website, c-span.org.
We've got all of our Washington Journal segments there.
If you miss anything, you can always go back.
It's Dr. Clyde, Queens, New York, Independent Line.
Good morning, Clyde.
unidentified
Good morning.
How you doing, Mimi?
Good.
Here it is.
We should expect this from somebody who's totally incompetent for the job.
You know, you're talking about DEI.
I heard this guy say this he's totally incompetent.
But here it is.
He's gotten rid of top-notch generals and what have you.
And he's gotten rid of all the JAG officers.
This way, he can run Russia any way he wants.
Then he gets on, we get on, I watch C-SPAN, and I watch what the border director, the Homeland Border Directors are saying.
Most of the drugs are coming in, 85% of them are coming in on trucks, and they're not immigrants.
The second thing is, and most of the drugs are coming from Mexico.
They're not coming in from Venezuela.
And these little speedboats, which you only have very shallow, what have you, the very shallow speedboats, they only can go about 200 miles.
And here it is, Venezuela is over 2,000 miles away.
And if they're going to, if they're, and they're killing these people with no evidence whatsoever, and tech said it's saying, we know who these people are, we know where they come from, we know where they live, then here it is.
They better come up with the proof because this guy, this general is going to be another Ali North, and he's falling on the sword for these guys of total incompetence.
It's about the oil.
That's all it's about.
mimi geerges
All right, Clyde.
We got that.
And coming up in about a half an hour, we will talk to Democrat Melanie Stansbury of New Mexico.
We'll talk about the tensions with Venezuela and expiring ACA subsidies here at home.
But first, after the break, a conversation with Sean Van Diver.
He's founder and president of hashtag Afghan EVAC.
It's a nonprofit run by American veterans helping to evacuate and resettle Afghans who assisted the U.S. during the two-decade war.
Stay with us.
unidentified
Watch America's Book Club, C-SPAN's bold original series.
This Sunday with our guest, best-selling author Jody Pico, who has written 29 books about a wide range of controversial and moral issues.
Her books include The Storyteller, 19 Minutes, and Her Latest by Any Other Name.
She joins our host, renowned author and civic leader David Rubinstein.
david rubenstein
People come to you and say you've changed their views on certain social issues because of your books.
unidentified
That's why I write.
jodi picoult
You know, it's to start a discussion.
And you can't always have a discussion with people.
Some people just aren't ready to hear it.
But there are a lot of minds that you can change one mind at a time.
unidentified
Watch America's Book Club with Jodi Pico this Sunday at 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN.
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Washington Journal continues.
mimi geerges
Welcome back to Washington Journal.
We're joined now by Sean Van Diver.
He's founder and president of Afghan EVAC.
We're discussing the Trump administration's response to those National Guard shootings.
Sean, welcome to the program.
shawn vandiver
Thank you so much for having me today, Mimi.
mimi geerges
So first, tell us about your organization.
Why did you found it and its mission?
shawn vandiver
Sure.
So Afghan EVAC is an organization dedicated to making sure that the United States and our allies follow through on the promises that we made to locally employed staff and others who served our mission or stood up for the idea for democracy over our 20-year war in Afghanistan.
Everybody remembers the pictures of Afghans falling off of planes desperate to get out.
Afghan EVAC stood up during the fall of Kabul.
I got a call from my friend Lucky.
He said, brother, I'm stuck on this mountain or goon.
I think I'm going to die.
Will you grant my last wish and get my family back to San Diego?
Now, I didn't serve in Afghanistan.
I served off the coast of Iraq, off the coast of Africa, all over South America in the Global War on Drugs.
But this fight is my fight because how we close out our longest war really matters.
It matters to me.
It matters to veterans all over this country and frontline civilians and others who served in our longest wars.
And look, we've got to follow through on this.
And it was working during the last administration.
mimi geerges
And you are a nonprofit, and how are you funded?
shawn vandiver
We're funded from individual donations.
We've never had any institutional support.
We're all volunteer.
But we're trying to change that.
So we would love support from your viewers.
AfghanEvec.org slash donate.
mimi geerges
All right.
And it's been reported that that alleged shooter that fired on the National Guard and killed one member and critically wounded another came into the United States through Operation Allies Welcome in September of 2021.
Can you tell us about that program and how many Afghans came into the United States through that program?
shawn vandiver
Sure.
So first off, our hearts go out to the tragic, to the families of the two National Guardsmen who were shot, critically injured, and killed last week.
It's an awful situation.
Nobody should ever have to experience the scourge of gun violence that our country has all the time.
Operation Allies Welcome brought in about 77,000 Afghans.
Allies Welcome was the emergency evacuation of Afghanistan.
It only lasted a few months, and that was getting people on planes, getting them vetted before they got on those planes, getting them vetted after they arrived in the third country, more vetting before they left, even more vetting when they arrived, more vetting while they were here, and continual vetting until they got to permanent status.
Many of those folks never got to permanent status or haven't yet.
And then Operation, or not Operation, Enduring Welcome is the long-term end-to-end comprehensive policy to keep our promises to our wartime allies that Afghan EVEC built with the Biden administration.
It's our strongest, safest, most secure legal immigration pathway in our country's history.
And all told between Allies Welcome and Enduring Welcome, there's about 195,000 Afghans that have come into the country.
mimi geerges
Before we talk about their status, I want to ask about the vetting.
You said that there's all kinds of vetting that's going on.
Drill down on that for us.
Who's doing it?
And what kind of questions are they asking?
What are they finding out?
And how are they being approved?
unidentified
Sure.
shawn vandiver
So remember, screening and vetting is all about who are you connected to?
What are you doing?
Are you connected to terrorist organizations?
Are you committing crimes?
Are you doing things that are not compatible with coming to the United States?
Now, the truth is, our vetting is insanely secure.
For refugees, especially, it's the gold standard around the world.
It looks like multi-agency checks, certainly the Department of Defense or Department of War, if you're Pete Hegseth, the Central Intelligence Agency, other intelligence community agencies, the Department of Homeland Security, Customs and Border Protection, USCIS, international law enforcement, local law enforcement.
It's this comprehensive multi-agency interagency effort to make sure that all of our watch lists are checked and all of that.
And that happens over and over and over for these folks.
So when Christy Noam and Donald Trump and JD Vance and Kash Patel get up and Pam Bondi get up and lie to the American public and say that the vetting didn't occur, that's just not true.
It's also an absolute fact that the Trump administration also vetted these folks, vetted this man in particular.
He got both chief of mission approval for his special immigrant visa program and asylum approved in April of 2025.
mimi geerges
All right, so let's hear from Secretary Christy Noam.
She's Secretary of DHS, and she was on NBC on Sunday talking about this, and then I'll get your response.
unidentified
Do you know what the motive was at this point?
pete hegseth
Do you believe the suspect acted alone?
kristi noem
You know, we're still going through all of that information, and I'll let the FBI and DOJ reveal new information.
But I will say we believe he was radicalized since he's been here in this country.
We do believe it was through connections in his home community and state, and we're going to continue to talk to those who interacted with him, who were his family members, talked to them.
So far, we've had some participation, but anyone who has information on this needs to know that we will be coming after you, and we will bring you to justice.
We absolutely will persecute you because we do know that we will never allow this to continue to happen in our country.
Allow individuals who came to our country that were unvetted by Joe Biden, allowed to run free and loose.
We are going to bring them to justice and make sure that they're returned out of this country if they aren't here for the purposes of being an American.
mimi geerges
Sean, the Secretary said that she believes that the alleged shooter was radicalized once he got to this country.
What can you tell us about that?
shawn vandiver
Well, I'd say Secretary Noam needs to work on her definitions.
I don't think we've seen anything yet that has shown that he was radicalized.
There's been no indication, and you can rest assured that this PR machine government would be waving the flag of terrorism if there was something to indicate that he'd been radicalized, which means that he was working with some terrorist organization or some bad actor.
What all the evidence seems to point to is that this man was experiencing extraordinary amounts of PTSD.
mimi geerges
Did we lose your time?
shawn vandiver
No, I'm back.
Sorry about that.
I used to run a veterans nonprofit called Three Wise Men Veterans Foundation, and we were focused on reducing the stigma associated with PTSD.
This man was exhibiting, as far as all the news reporting is showing, telltale signs.
I don't know that he was radicalized.
I think he was brought here.
And to be clear, there's no reason, excuse, ideology for what he did.
He must be held to full account for his crimes, just like we're holding to account the two veterans from back in September who committed mass shootings several states apart and 13 hours apart.
This man needs to be treated like the criminal that he is.
And the gaps that we are identifying are not with our vetting process.
They're with, first, how we treat the people who fight our wars for us, both American military veterans and our wartime allies.
Once they finish that, this man was 15 years old when we handed him a gun and said, go kill people for us.
And then we brought him here and allowed him to isolate himself in his room.
And lots of people tried to get him help back in 2024 and he never got it.
It was offered.
He declined.
And then this year he was asking for help from the CIA.
The other gap is that President Trump and Christy Noam and all of these folks is from loan shooters.
They doged this entire program and then reallocated all these federal law enforcement resources to political stunts at Home Depot and snatching teachers out of classrooms and snatching old grandmas from immigration courts.
mimi geerges
Hold on, Sean, let me just go back to something you just said.
You said that we handed him a gun at the age of 15 and told him to go kill people for us.
Explain that.
shawn vandiver
Yeah, he was a part of one of the most elite units, elite counterterrorism units that fought our war for us in Afghanistan, the Zero units.
He worked with the CIA, and these folks did night raids.
They went in and they found bad guys for us.
And they took action in our name.
mimi geerges
And at the age of 15, though?
unidentified
That's exactly right.
mimi geerges
Sean VanDiver is with us.
He's our guest.
If you'd like to ask him a question about his organization called Afghan EVAC, he's the president and founder.
You can start calling in now.
The lines are by party.
It is 202748-8001 for Republicans, 202748-8000 for Democrats, and 202748-8002 for independents.
Sean, the legal status of those, you said 195,000 Afghans who came into the United States following the war.
What is their legal status?
unidentified
Sure.
shawn vandiver
So it sort of depends on when they got here and who they are, right?
So for the folks that arrived during Operation Allies Welcome, most of those people arrived on a temporary status called parole.
They were brought out of Kabul to a third country, brought from a third country to a U.S. military base here, and then released into the community after extraordinary amounts of vetting with instructions to either get their SIVs or apply for asylum.
Many of those folks are still in that process, so they are in shaky legal ground, right?
They should be protected because there's nowhere for them to go.
When we built Enduring Welcome, the idea was that people would arrive here on a durable status, fully vetted, ready to start their American dream when they arrived.
So most of those folks arrived either as refugees or as lawful permanent residents or as family of American citizens or LPR.
So everybody who arrives through Enduring Welcome arrived on a durable status, which means that they should be able to stay.
But what we're seeing the administration make noise about is stripping that permanent status away from people, stripping LPR status, stripping, they're even talking about denaturalizing people.
So we're really worried that they're going to try to take people out of status and then remove them.
In fact, right now, ICE is calling up Afghans around this country, asking them to come in for check-ins, and then snatching them or going to their homes.
I got a call from a woman in New York yesterday, last night before I went to bed.
She was absolutely overcome with grief because her husband had been snatched out of their house in front of their three-year-old, handcuffed in front of their three-year-old, and marched out of there for doing nothing just because he was Afghan.
And this administration is trying to ascribe to an entire population one man's actions.
mimi geerges
So the Trump administration has terminated temporary protective status as well.
That happened in July before the shooting.
What happens to those Afghans?
They are now subject to deportation, as I would assume that happened to the gentleman from last night that you were telling us about.
shawn vandiver
That's right.
Now, our immigration system is complex and convoluted and meant to be hard for everyone.
So not having TPS or not having parole anymore, you are subject to removal unless you have an asylum application or any sort of pending action before an immigration court.
Now, what the government is trying to do right now, and I know this because I've been in immigration court a bunch, is they're trying to dismiss cases.
And then once the government requests to dismiss it in immigration court, they're snatching them up outside in the hallways.
So in response to that, Afghan EVAC and Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America launched something called Battle Buddies, where veterans, frontline civilians, and anyone involved in the evacuation ecosystem can sign up to go stand shoulder to shoulder with our wartime allies in court, like they did with us when we were in their country.
We're standing with them while they're fighting for their lives and ours.
mimi geerges
All right, let's talk to callers and start with BJ in Ohio, Independent Line.
Good morning, BJ.
unidentified
Good morning.
I'm 95 years old.
I've seen a lot of changes in America.
And one of my major concerns is what's taking place in Europe.
People coming up from the South and overcoming the white population.
The white population on this planet right now is in very serious danger, both in America and over in Europe.
And if the white population doesn't wake up to the reality, they won't be existing very long.
You have to become aware of the reality of the truth.
The white population is under attack, and if they don't protect themselves...
mimi geerges
All right, BJ, any comments on that, Sean?
shawn vandiver
All right.
I mean, I think my comment is that I'm not really worried about that.
Afghans are not coming here to try to replace the white population.
There's only 500,000 Afghans total that have tried to come here.
195,000 got here.
265,000 are trying to come here.
They're not going to replace us.
And also, I just can't.
Yeah.
mimi geerges
Eric in Duluth, Minnesota, Democrat.
Good morning, Eric.
unidentified
Good morning.
I think the perspective everybody has to have right now is that chaos is the name of the game.
And chaos was the goal of President Putin in Russia stated two years ago, and that was a press release that he had stated he hoped to seed chaos in America.
If you look around, what do you see?
Flip-floppers.
Marjorie Taylor Greene, this opinion, then that opinion.
Other important members of Congress suddenly flip-flopping on important issues.
mimi geerges
And Eric, how is that?
How is that related to the Afghan issue that we're talking about?
unidentified
Because we're trying to adhere to central pretexts of our system.
Here we're citing how important it is that we vet this person by the rules when the rules have become flim-flam.
And so the vetting is now done by individuals who have flip-flopped their way into power.
And President Trump has put very interesting individuals in charge of the CDC who have no experience.
And we're supposed to believe everything they say.
Well, now we're supposed to believe who they say is vetted when it's people without credentials doing the vetting.
So watch for chaos.
Watch for what's coming from overseas.
Big oil money from overseas.
mimi geerges
All right, Eric.
Any comment, Sean?
shawn vandiver
I mean, it is my position that we shouldn't believe anything that is coming from a podium in Washington right now.
Christy Noom is a liar.
Donald Trump is a liar.
Kash Patel is a liar.
Pam Bondi's a liar.
JD Vance is certainly a liar.
I wish that that wasn't true.
I came up in the United States military.
I've been somebody who's worked across the aisle for a long time.
And I think we can trust.
It's really upsetting to me that we can't trust what people are saying in Washington.
And also, they're not the ones doing the vetting.
The vetting is happening at the line level.
And there's so many extraordinary people working across the federal government right now who are doing what they have to do.
And a lot of people have quit.
A lot of people have been fired.
There's a lot of good people in government.
And I'm not ready to give up on America yet.
I think our country has to have a strong conversation about where we're at and get back to reality and get away from these 90-second soundbite gotchas.
That's my position.
mimi geerges
Bill in Alabama, Independent Line, you're on the air.
unidentified
Yes, good morning.
I have a couple of quick questions.
How long does it take to thoroughly vet a person?
This gentleman is part of that.
He's been involved in it.
So how long does it take?
Does it take hours, days, weeks, months is one of my questions.
And my other one is, we had 195,000 people evacuated in, what, 16 days.
Were those people thoroughly vetted?
And if not, are we thoroughly vetting them now?
So their temporary status keeps them here, okay.
But if we find something in that vetting process, are they then removed or how is that handled?
Because I'm sure we can't thoroughly vet somebody in a week.
There's a lot of things.
mimi geerges
All right, Bill, let's take those up.
Go ahead, Sean.
shawn vandiver
Bill, thank you so much for asking those questions.
Those are really important questions.
Number one, I can order on Uber Eats and have it here before I'm off this show, right?
Technology has enabled a lot of things to happen faster than they've ever happened before, right?
And we also have advanced AI and all sort of things happening now that make things smarter, faster, better.
The answer to your first question is how long it takes?
It depends.
It depends on how much information we have.
The good news is, no matter what the president's telling you, we have a ton of information on this population.
We have more information on the Afghan population than we do on most other populations.
And in fact, it took us so much longer to vet these folks because of the amount of information to sift through.
Now, you said something that 195,000 people came here in 16 days.
That's not true.
About 70,000 people came here in those 16 days.
And then it took us another four years, three and a half years, to get the balance to other 120-some-odd thousand people here because of how fast the vetting was, or because of how in-depth the vetting was.
And it's so important that you know that a lot of the people that are right now saying that the vetting wasn't happening and the Republican talking heads making a bunch of noise about vetting are the same people who were calling the White House and calling us to say, hey, can you get my guy out?
Hey, make this happen faster.
Hey, do the vetting elsewhere.
But the Biden administration deserves a little bit of credit for not cowing to those demands.
They took their time.
They made sure that people were vetted before they left the airport.
And there may have been a few that slipped through there, but nobody slipped through once they got to a third country.
If they made it to a third country, UAE, Qatar, a few others, Germany, a full round of vetting was done.
And if you didn't screen, you didn't come here.
You went to Kosovo, where they underwent even more screening.
If they couldn't pass vetting, they didn't get to come here.
People who came to the United States had all passed vetting, and then they had to get through CBP at the port of entry.
They got more vetting.
If something popped up later on, if something was discovered, if they did something, they were removed from the country and sent to Kosovo for more vetting.
If they didn't screen, they couldn't come back here.
So what I would say is that our vetting is very strong.
It works very well.
And that's why Kash Patel's own FBI found that the FBI did everything it was supposed to do and that the vetting worked as late as June 2025.
mimi geerges
Let's talk to Denise in Crescent City, Florida, Republican.
Go ahead, Denise.
unidentified
Good morning.
Thank you for taking my call.
My question or clarification that I'm asking for is, I heard you say, sir, that this man suffered from PTSD and locked himself alone in a room.
Is that correct?
Because I heard on the news that he had a wife and five children in Washington State.
shawn vandiver
That is correct.
And he does have a wife and five children in Washington State.
And they were very concerned that he had locked himself in the room.
And he would come out.
He would also go on long drives.
It was not uncharacteristic for him to go on for days at a time.
What we had heard and what has been reported in the Associated Press and in Rolling Stone is that he was suffering from deep mental anguish related to his service to our country.
And that's why, look, I don't think that this event is a scandal.
I think that this terrible shooting and loss of one National Guardsman and critical injury of another is a tragic story about how we take care of our service members and veterans.
I think that nothing excuses what he did and he's got to be held to account to the full extent of the law.
And it is a grave mistake to let the president and his team ascribe to a whole population one man's actions.
mimi geerges
And Denise, does that answer your question?
unidentified
Well, I have a second part to the question.
mimi geerges
Go ahead.
unidentified
Why is this not being addressed as a military issue by JAG itself?
He shot one of our military on our soil.
Why is it being addressed by the FBI?
shawn vandiver
Sure.
If it had happened on a military base or a military facility, then it would be addressed by the military, but it's about jurisdiction, right?
This happened in Washington, D.C.
It's being investigated by our national investigative arm.
There's nothing abnormal about this, and he did not serve in the military.
mimi geerges
Here's Daryl in Georgia, Independent Line.
You're on the air, Darrell.
unidentified
Well, yes.
Let me bring this narrative back to where it should be.
Please give me time.
I can get everyone else.
George Bush started this war, Republican.
Donald Trump set up this surrender deal in Afghanistan with the Taliban.
It was going to bring them to Camp David.
What I've actually noticed about a lot of you military guys, you know, you support Trump secretly.
And this guy is how he's disrespected you all and everyone's family ever served.
But on to what's happening with Afghanistan, I just want you to answer a few questions.
A lot of these guys, man, you know, was brought over here by Republicans.
A lot of you special forces and people in the military set up nonprofits and different type of stuff, went over there and got people, rescued them out of Iraq.
This is what I'm talking about.
Republicans, you can pull up the clips.
They were supporting this Russian Biden.
Biden had to make a decision.
They was not even corresponding with Biden administration when they took over during the transition and stuff because they were setting up these deals.
Trump wanted to bring the Taliban to Camp David to talk about this deal.
He set it up.
Biden had to make a decision.
And what happened was, you know, which I can't understand, Republicans are making this out like Biden was responsible for it.
Those Afghans that actually blew up, those are the people who Trump was talking to him, negotiating with, I guess that's what you all call it, during the time he was in office.
He did not stop this war.
The Democrats, Obama, and Biden did not start this war.
mimi geerges
Okay, Daryl, let's get a response.
Anything, Sean?
shawn vandiver
Yeah, look, Darrell, what I would say is you're right that President Trump negotiated with the Taliban and did not invite the Ghani government in.
You're right that they didn't correspond with the Biden administration.
You're right that President Trump had a lot to say about President Biden's performance during the withdrawal.
And you're right that he marched the families of our final 13 fallen out on the stage at the RNC and talked about it during every debate.
I agree with you that this is wholesale hypocrisy from the Republican Party.
And the truth is that 90% of the American public supports the Afghan population.
The truth is that we have an obligation to these folks because we sent diplomats and service members downrange to make promises in our name, and President Trump is turning us all into liars.
President Biden turned us into liars before he built Enduring Welcome.
I don't think we have any reason to be happy with anybody in Washington right now.
Congress won't even pass a law to help protect these folks.
I think we have every reason to be pissed off, but I wouldn't blame the military.
The military is not, I'm not a secret Republican.
I worked on President Biden's campaign.
I worked on Hillary Clinton's campaign.
I've worked on a bunch of Democratic campaigns because I believe in the values and principles of the Democratic Party.
I also believe in the values and principles of bipartisanship to do something good for our country, which is what we've done with Afghan EVAC.
Aggain EVAC is a nonpartisan organization fighting everybody for our wartime allies' benefit to make sure that they get to reach the American dream that they were promised.
mimi geerges
Let's take one more call to Celine Arlington, Virginia, Republican.
Good morning, Celine.
unidentified
Good morning.
Thank you for taking my call.
I would like to say, I'm not sure about this individual case, but I thought I heard that he was shouting something like, Allah is the greatest, or something like that, Islamic slogan.
I think that's against our Constitution.
And whatever status, the people coming, overall, I think when we accept immigrants, we should consider their value system.
And also, this guy, he has a hard time to assimilate to our society.
That's the issue.
And no matter he came legally or illegally, he had a problem assimilating to our community.
And in my own community, I saw a lot of people.
They are here like so many years.
They still hang on to their own, like whenever the U.S. is not in favor of their own government or countries, they always, you know, they stand with their own government.
mimi geerges
Okay.
Celine, let's get a response.
Go ahead, Sean.
shawn vandiver
Celine, you brought a lot here.
What I'm going to say is it's probably really hard to assimilate when people keep pulling the rug out from under you.
Afghans are doing a great job assimilating, in my estimation.
And also, we took away their SNAP benefits.
We took away their housing benefits.
We took away their mental health benefits.
We painted this picture of an American dream that they were promised because they stood with us.
They fought with us.
They stood and befriended Americans and took care of us overseas for 20 years.
And they get here and it's a punch in the face after punch in the face after punch in the face.
So I think that what you said to me, Celine, I believe that you're wrong.
I think that they, in fact, do assimilate just fine despite all of the roadblocks that are thrown in their way by an inept and ineffective American government.
mimi geerges
That's Sean VanDiver, founder and president of Afghan EVAC.
You can find them online at afghanevac.org.
Thanks so much for joining us today.
shawn vandiver
Thank you so much, Mimi.
mimi geerges
Up next, Democrat Melanie Stansbury of New Mexico joins us.
We'll talk about tensions with Venezuela and expiring ACA subsidies here at home.
We'll be right back.
donald j trump
So you interviewed the other night.
I watched it about two o'clock in the morning.
unidentified
There was a little thing called C-SPAN, which I don't know how many people were watching.
donald j trump
Don't worry, you were on prime time too, but they happened to have a little re-run.
patty murray
Do you really think that we don't remember what just happened last week?
Thank goodness for C-SPAN, and we all should review the tape.
unidentified
Everyone wonders when they're watching C-SPAN what the conversations are on the floor.
al green
I'm about to read to you something that was published by C-SPAN.
sean duffy
There's a lot of things that Congress fights about, that they disagree on.
al green
We can all watch that on C-SPAN.
unidentified
Millions of people across the country tuned into C-SPAN.
That was a made-for-C-SPAN moment.
If you watch on C-SPAN, you're going to see me physically across the aisle every day, just trying to build relationships and try to understand their perspective and find common ground.
And welcome aboard to everybody watching at home.
We know C-SPAN covers this a lot as well.
mimi geerges
We appreciate that.
unidentified
And one can only hope that he's able to watch C-SPAN on a black and white television set in his prison cell.
This is being carried live by C-SPAN.
It's being watched not only in this country, but it's being watched around the world right now.
donald j trump
Mike said before, I happened to listen to him.
He was on C-SPAN 1.
That's a big upgrade, right?
al green
And past president.
Why are you doing this?
unidentified
This is outrageous.
This is a kangaroo court.
Fridays, C-SPAN presents a rare moment of unity.
Ceasefire, where the shouting stops and the conversation begins.
Politico Playbook chief correspondent and White House Bureau Chief Dasha Burns is host of Ceasefire, bringing two leaders from opposite sides of the aisle into a dialogue.
Ceasefire on the network that doesn't take sides.
Fridays at 7 and 10 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN.
Washington Journal continues.
mimi geerges
Welcome back to Washington Journal.
We're joined by Representative Melanie Stansbury.
She's a Democrat of New Mexico, member of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee, and the Natural Resources Committee.
Congresswoman, welcome to the program.
melanie stansbury
Thank you so much.
It's great to be here.
mimi geerges
Republican Matt Van Epps won the Tennessee 7th District election special election yesterday.
What was your reaction?
melanie stansbury
You know, I don't think it's any surprise that he won.
Trump won this district by 22 points, and the former representative did nearly as well.
But I think what is the real surprise here is that he only won by nine points.
And this should not have even been close.
In fact, the Republicans, just to hold on to the seat, had to spend millions of dollars, and Trump himself had to spend over a million dollars from his PAC.
And I think what this indicates is heading into the midterms that seats that Republicans thought were a sure bet for them are no longer secure.
And this means it's time to get to work and we're ready to take back the House and take back every seat we can.
mimi geerges
Do you think that the Democrats will take back the House?
melanie stansbury
I think under the current maps, Democrats are leading in the polling on every single issue because the Republicans passed their big ugly bill, which cuts health care, it cuts food assistance, it cuts educational assistance, it gives tax breaks and giveaways to billionaires.
And I think the American people are fed up.
mimi geerges
Those maps are the big question.
Yes.
Let's talk about Venezuela.
You're on oversight and government reform.
The lawmakers have been pressing the Trump administration for justifications for those strikes.
There was also the question of that follow-up strike in September.
Do you believe that the White House has provided legal justification for those strikes?
melanie stansbury
The White House hasn't even provided a consistent story at this point.
You know, every day, every hour, they seem to be changing their story.
I think what is obvious at this point is the chain of command was the president and the Secretary of Defense, and that second strike violated at least the military code and likely international law, as well as potentially domestic law, and potentially being murder.
And so there are now two bipartisan investigations in both the House and the Senate to look into what was known.
You know, I saw a Secretary of Defense claim during the cabinet meeting yesterday that he didn't witness it.
I don't care if he witnessed it or not.
If he gave an order to kill civilians or combatants who were in the water who were unarmed, that is a violation of the law and he will be ultimately held accountable.
mimi geerges
Now, the argument is made that previous administrations have done this kind of thing all the time and nobody said anything.
melanie stansbury
Well, I don't know what they're referencing, but certainly, first of all, the administration has not even come to Capitol Hill to seek a declaration of war.
They are claiming that they are waging a war on drug cartels in Venezuela without any definition of what that means.
There are classified documents that they provided to the Hill, and as far as we can tell, they are trying to stretch the law to justify basically doing extrajudicial killings off the coast of Venezuela.
And what is it in service of?
It appears to be in service of regime change, not in service of actually seeking a declaration of war.
We are not at war with Venezuela or its people.
And so it's very clear that this administration does not think they have to follow the law, whether that's international law, domestic law, or military law.
And that is why members on both sides of the aisle are deeply disturbed, not only about this killing in September, but the overall scope of what the administration is trying to do in Venezuela.
And it's clear violations of the Constitution and violations of the law.
mimi geerges
Congresswoman Melanie Stansbury is in the studio with us.
She's a Democrat of New Mexico.
If you'd like to join our conversation, you can start calling in now.
Republicans are on 202748-8000.
Democrats 202-748-88, sorry, Republicans 8,001, Democrats, 8,000, and Independents 202748-8002.
The administration has called these narco-terrorists that they are killing Americans.
There's been 100,000 Americans killed in overdoses.
Where do you stand on that?
And that, you know, the argument is made is that any bit of drugs that are being stopped and not being allowed to flow into the United States is a good thing.
melanie stansbury
Well, I guess my question, and I think the question on everyone's mind is, if the president is so concerned with narco-terrorists, why did he just commute the sentence of one of the most notorious narco-traffickers under American law with the commuting of the sentence of the Honduran president just in the last few days?
I mean, this man was known to have helped traffic literally tons of narco products into the United States.
Secondly, there's no clear evidence that these boats are engaged in narco-trafficking to the United States.
But most importantly, the U.S. Constitution is clear.
If you want to go to war with a foreign nation, you have to come to Congress.
It has to be debated before Congress, and Congress holds the authority to declare war, not the administration.
And I appreciate efforts to address drug trafficking.
I represent a border state in New Mexico, and fentanyl has had an absolutely devastating impact on our community.
But what we know is that the vast majority of fentanyl products are crossing the physical land border between Mexico.
And the way that we address that is by going after drug traffickers on the border, by preventing those products from making it to Mexico from China through negotiations with the Chinese government, not conducting extrajudicial killings of Venezuelan fishermen off the coast of South America.
mimi geerges
Let's talk to callers.
Start with Jordan in Florida.
Democrat, good morning, Jordan.
unidentified
Good morning, and thank you guys for having me on.
Thank you, Representative Stansbury, for being here today to answer questions.
Look, at least what I could say as a young Democrat, what we could see is a lot of Democrats are definitely annoyed at what this Trump administration is doing, and we are glad that there are still representatives like you that are still holding the Trump administration accountable, still reminding him that there's still a rule of law and still reminding him and the rest of this administration that there are laws in place for a reason.
There are checks and balances for a reason.
Now, thank you for reminding the Trump administration that they still have to go to Congress if they want to go to war with any foreign nation.
And one thing that I'm seeing is that a lot of the times that this occurs, the Trump administration has, they claim they have no idea that these strikes are even occurring.
That's ridiculous.
So in 2026, when the Democrats flipped the House, what can a Speaker Jeffries group of leaders do and what results can the American people expect on checks and balances of the Trump administration?
Thank you so much.
melanie stansbury
Yeah, well, thank you so much, Jordan.
I mean, you're absolutely right.
The checks and balances of this country have been absolutely gutted by the Trump administration.
And what I've been saying is this.
2026 is about reclaiming our democracy and 2028 is about restoring our country.
We have to understand that Donald Trump will still be in the White House unless something else happens.
We know he has failing health right now.
But we have a very good chance of taking back the majority in the House.
It's important to understand that the House is a majority institution, which means if you're not in the majority, you don't control the floor.
You don't control committees.
You don't control legislation.
So when we take back the House in 2026, Speaker Jeffries and the Democratic leadership will absolutely go after the historic corruption of the Trump administration and ensure that we are conducting oversight.
Now, our ability to ultimately hold the Trump administration accountable will depend on whether or not our colleagues across the aisle in the Senate are going to play ball and do their constitutional duty and hold individuals in the administration who are breaking the law accountable.
And I think we've seen multiple instances of potentially impeachable offenses, not only by the president, but by members of his cabinet over the last several weeks and months.
And so at the end of the day, it's not just about taking back the House and the Senate and the White House in 28.
It's important that our colleagues across the aisle who were duly elected by the American people to provide a check and balance on this administration finally step up and hold the Trump administration accountable.
It's not just on us.
This is their job.
This is what the founding fathers imagined when they set up our Constitution.
And that is the purpose of having a People's House is to have a check on unchecked administrative power.
So I appreciate the question.
mimi geerges
And Congresswoman, you said that we know that President Trump is having failing health.
Can you elaborate on that?
melanie stansbury
Yeah, I mean, I think all of us are searching for additional details to understand what is going on with Donald Trump.
But I think, you know, the news was filled yesterday with images of the president barely keeping his eyes open during his own cabinet meeting.
It looked like he fell asleep multiple times during that cabinet meeting.
We know he's had an MRI.
We know that he's undergoing treatment at Walter Reed.
And I think it's very clear if you've been watching the president over the last several months, he's not well.
So.
mimi geerges
Let's talk to Jodi in Kentucky, Republican.
Good morning, Jody.
You're on the air.
unidentified
First of all, ma'am, I want to say you're wrong.
You're not going to win the houseback in 2026.
You might win the seat, but you're not going to win the house back in 2026.
It stays takes all 50 states.
And how do you like the outcome of yesterday's election in Tennessee?
Democrats had a hardware to win in the red sites.
How do you like the results?
mimi geerges
All right, Jodi.
melanie stansbury
Jody, thank you so much for the question.
I couldn't hear every detail of it, but let me just say that under the current polling and data that we see across the country, Democrats will take back the House.
And that is why the president and the Republican establishment have been trying to cheat, why they've been trying to redistrict in multiple states is because they are trying to change the map so that they're more favorable to them.
In terms of the outcome in Tennessee, I'll just reiterate what I said, which is that that race should not have even been close.
There was a point last night as data was coming in, especially from the Nashville area, where the Democratic candidate was actually ahead.
I mean, that's when you think about this is a district that Trump won by 22 points.
There shouldn't have ever been a moment like that.
So that really indicates the discomfort and distrust that the American people have with the current administration.
And I'll just say this, if you look at the polling, this is the least popular president in American history at this point in his tenure in American history.
And people are suffering out there right now.
The economy is bad.
People can't afford housing, utilities, groceries.
So people are unhappy.
And I think that's what the polls are reflecting.
mimi geerges
Mike is in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, Independent Line.
Go ahead, Mike.
unidentified
Yes, good morning.
To the previous guest you had on the line.
He wanted to talk about how Trump's a liar and Pete Hecksteft and JD Vance.
They're all a bunch of liars on his cabinet.
I'd like to hear him talk about how Joe Biden was the truth teller.
Gary Marker.
mimi geerges
Sorry, Mike, can you?
We've got Representative Melanie Sansbury on now.
unidentified
Oh, yes, and I'm going to her too.
She sits there and talks about Trump's health.
She would dance in the street tomorrow if he died.
That's how partisan hack she is.
Okay, the Democrat.
mimi geerges
What do you think?
melanie stansbury
Well, I'm not sure if we're going to hear the rest of the question.
Listen, I don't take delight in anyone being sick or poor health.
I'm simply pointing out that the president of the United States, number one, did not attend a NATO meeting yesterday.
He has his son-in-law and personal advisor meeting with a foreign dictator in Russia, and he couldn't even keep his eyes open in a cabinet meeting yesterday.
The president is unwell.
He is not fit to be leading the United States right now.
And those, to me, are objective facts.
And I think the American people's discomfort with this presidency are an indication and a symptom of what's going on.
mimi geerges
San Diego Richard, Line for Democrats.
Go ahead.
You're on the air.
unidentified
Thanks, Amy.
Hello, Melanie.
I'm so glad to hear you speak this morning.
You speak it right.
You're telling the facts.
You're telling the truth.
And that's a real shortage in these times right now for this current administration about telling the truth.
But the point I wanted to make is about the interdiction by missile firepower from fighter aircraft on the smokes in Venezuela.
It's ridiculous.
Back in the days when I was a youngster, long, long ago in the 60s, the Vietnam War was a big item.
A lot of bad things done.
And one of the things they did about stopping boats that were carrying ammunition, weapons, food, drugs for the adversary was they had these boats called swift boats.
They were 50-foot aluminum boats, gunned up heavy.
And they rode around in the canals and the river and the Mekong, and they stopped boats.
Why does not the current administration use interdiction instead of putting boats up against these guys?
We don't even appear to be armed at all of them.
mimi geerges
So Richard, we're actually having trouble making out what you're saying because your line is not that good.
But you're saying why not interdict with the Coast Guard these boats as opposed to military action?
unidentified
Well, I'm going to step out here and hope my phone works a little better because sometimes my interception or your interception is better than the House.
It might be better than that.
mimi geerges
But that's okay.
I think we got your question.
melanie stansbury
Yeah, I mean, absolutely.
We should be doing appropriate legal drug interdiction to protect the American people.
That is fine.
mimi geerges
So, Bruno, we've been doing that.
Yeah, for decades.
And we still have a huge drug problem in the United States.
The argument is, why not try something different?
unidentified
Why not have a more muscular approach?
melanie stansbury
I think that it is perfectly appropriate to come to Congress to make a case for why you would like to try some sort of more aggressive interdiction activities.
But it is illegal for the White House to proceed and actually try to declare war on a country without Congress and to engage in extrajudicial killings.
That's illegal.
It's fine to have a more aggressive policy approach.
You've got to make a case to Congress.
Congress has to approve it.
The People's House has to say, okay, we're going to move forward.
And then you are given the authority to do it.
What the White House is doing is illegal.
mimi geerges
Brian in Pottstown, Pennsylvania, Independent Line.
Good morning, Brian.
unidentified
Good morning, and great to talk to C-SPAN.
I just want to ask the representative, I guess the delay is throwing me off a little bit, but she said, you know, she keeps saying fishing boats.
I'd like her comment on the semi-submersible that they sunk.
And also, I've looked at as many of these videos as I could see, and every one of these boats had either three or four outboard motors, which I haven't ever seen a fishing boat with three or four outboard motors.
So.
melanie stansbury
I mean, whatever the nature of these boat craft, it is still illegal for the President of the United States and for the Secretary of Defense to bomb these boats, period.
End of story.
mimi geerges
Marty in Albuquerque, New Mexico, Republican, you're on the air, Marty.
unidentified
Yeah, hi.
I was just calling every time she gets up on the House ward, she's got to scream and holler about the Epstein list.
And she actually worked for Glass E. Maxwell.
There's canceled checks that have been pushed under the rug that are no longer to be seen.
But she actually worked for Glass C. Maxwell and got paid by her.
And Marty, where are you getting that information?
It was on the local news back when she was running, and they swept it under the rug for her.
mimi geerges
Your response.
melanie stansbury
False.
There's no truth to this story whatsoever.
Clearly, there is an effort online by political opponents to try to create a smokescreen for something that never happened.
The truth of the matter is that the President of the United States and his associates are all over the Epstein files, and he has been engaged in a sustained cover-up of the Epstein files for months.
And he has until the 19th to produce the documents that we have passed a law to require him to release those Department of Justice documents.
We know that he has had the FBI working on overtime to try to stop those documents from being released.
And we are engaged in a bipartisan investigation of the crimes conducted by Jeffrey Epstein and his associates.
We've just completed another set of subpoenas for the financial institutions to look into the financial crimes.
We are investigating the actual crimes that were committed by Epstein and his associates.
And I have never, I will never have any association with those folks.
mimi geerges
And why do you think that the Biden Justice Department didn't do that thorough investigation that you say that your committee is going to be doing?
melanie stansbury
So my understanding is that the Biden administration is the administration who did prosecute Maxwell, and that during the time that that prosecution was being undertaken, that because of the ongoing investigation, those files were not released.
But listen, I don't care who's in the files.
If you were engaged in criminal sex trafficking and financial crimes, I don't care if you have a D or an R after your name, whether you're political or not, you should be held accountable under the law.
And our effort in the Oversight Committee is to get justice for the victims.
mimi geerges
Tim in Gassville, Arkansas, Independent Line, good morning.
unidentified
Good morning.
melanie stansbury
My name.
unidentified
Joe Biden and Kamala Harris imported 20 million slaves, which resulted in the loss of 300,000 children.
Sorry about Epstein and a few girls that got paid, but 300,000 children he lost.
And the great-granddaughter of a slave owner, him imported all these slaves and got them to vote.
Now we got New York, with 60% of its population weren't born here, elected a communist jihadist mayor of the city of our greatest financial institution.
Look what happened in London.
It's not London anymore.
You can't be white and English in London anymore.
You can't say anything about the protected class of Muslims or else you go right to jail just for talking.
You can beat somebody, but it's the woman who complains about it that gets arrested.
I'm sorry, Ms. Stansbury, but the Democrats have created these problems.
This is Obama's State Department that ran the coup that put Zelensky in power.
And all things stem from crooked Zelensky in power.
There's your war with Russia.
mimi geerges
Okay, Tim, let's get a response.
melanie stansbury
There's a lot to unpack there.
I think the main thing I'll just say here is that I'm not here to provide a platform for hate, but I do want to correct a factual issue that was stated about the Epstein files.
There are thousands of potential victims who were raped and who were sexually assaulted by Jeffrey Epstein and his associates.
And we know that there was criminal misconduct with thousands of illegal wire transfers and potentially international sex trafficking as well.
We are conducting a criminal investigation into what happened.
Secondly, President Biden did not import slaves.
You can hold whatever point of view you would like in American democracy about the issue of immigration, but that is just factually false.
mimi geerges
Jill in Scottsdale, Arizona, Democrat, good morning, Jill.
unidentified
Hi, good morning, Ms. Stansbury.
I just, I'm calling in just to say that I just love you and my friends love you, and I love your voice.
And I'm so happy that you have such a strong and positive and knowledgeable and educated voice for all of us.
I'm so thankful for you, and I just wanted to let you know that because I know these days are hard, but you are amazing, and I just love watching you.
I watch your clips on Instagram and everything, and you've got it.
And we are so glad that you've got it because you are giving us what we need.
You're giving us our voice, and I'm so proud of you, and I'm so thankful for you.
melanie stansbury
Thank you.
I'm going to cry.
Thank you.
mimi geerges
Doug is in Lancaster, Wisconsin, Independent Line.
Hi, Doug.
unidentified
Hi.
I was wondering if you're in favor of full disclosure of passing a law of all stock trades that are purchased from these people that are.
I was wondering if you're about the individual stock trades, Doug.
mimi geerges
That's what you're asking?
Okay, we got that.
melanie stansbury
Yes, absolutely.
Ban stock trading now.
Congressional stock trading should never have been legal.
There are members on both sides of the aisle who are clearly, you know, trading in stocks while they're sitting, members of Congress.
And I think it's wrong.
I also think it's immoral.
I don't personally hold stocks.
I'm a regular person.
I was a working person, just like everybody else calling in before I was elected to Congress and grew up in a low-income family.
And I think that, you know, if you are a person who holds wealth or stocks, you should be required to either dispose of those or put them in a trust where you cannot access them while you're serving because it creates inherent conflicts of interest.
One thing I can tell you is that Representative Luna has announced in the last 24 hours that she is going to run a bipartisan discharge petition to get that bill to the floor.
And I will absolutely be signing the discharge petition and voting to pass that bill.
mimi geerges
And do you think that that will go through?
That there'll be enough votes?
melanie stansbury
Yes.
I mean, we really only need four members on the Republican Party to sign on, and there's enough co-sponsors.
I think we will.
mimi geerges
Here's Mike in Rio, Wisconsin.
Democrat, you're on the air, Mike.
unidentified
Yes, Mrs. Romelney Stansbury, you are doing a great job.
The last five Republican callers that called in were all megaheads.
Like Trump says, he likes his people stupid.
That's why he votes against education.
I just want to say in my lifetime, Democrat, 69 years old, Trump is the most corrupt president in the history of our country.
We need to take back the House, and we will then impeach him.
And right now, Trump's approval rating is at 30%.
Wake up, America.
This guy is a corruption machine.
Look at the crypto business.
Look at his family.
They're all corruption.
When 18 months from today, all these MEGA people who are calling in are going to realize they have no insurance, they have no hospitalization, they have no place to go.
All the nursing homes will be closed.
They will be able to do nothing because of Trump.
Wake up, MAGA.
mimi geerges
He mentioned insurance.
ACA subsidies and hand subsidies are expiring at the end of this month.
Where do things stand with the House and the possibility of those getting extended?
melanie stansbury
Well, as you're probably aware, about a week ago, the White House announced that they were going to transmit a package of health care reforms, and then they pulled it back right before the Thanksgiving weekend because the Speaker of the House informed the President that House Republicans would not vote to extend ACA subsidies.
And so I think that has caused the White House to stall out.
And we know there's ongoing negotiations happening in the Senate over a package right now.
There's supposed to be a vote in the Senate pursuant to the deal that ended the shutdown.
But as far as we can tell, there's not a clear deal to reauthorize those subsidies, which means that literally millions of Americans are not going to be able to afford health insurance starting January 1st.
And that means millions of Americans are going to go without health care.
And so that is unacceptable.
We are going to continue to come to the table and negotiate.
But we need Republicans to do their jobs for the American people.
And I appreciate that the last caller provided some positive feedback for me.
But I want to just say the thing that's beautiful about the United States is we get to express our points of view.
mimi geerges
Sorry, we have got to stop it there.
Representative, thanks so much for joining us.
Take you to the House right now.
mike johnson
The chair will alternate recognition between the parties with time equally allotted between the parties and each member other than the majority and minority leaders and the minority whip limited to five minutes.
unidentified
But in no event shall debate continue beyond 1150 a.m.
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