| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| That was fabulous. | ||
| That said, like there were other problems in the economy. | ||
| I think when we talk about affordability, we also need to be talking about good jobs and good wages at the same time as we're talking about prices. | ||
| But I do think that we definitely need to hold our leaders accountable and make sure that we are making an economy that drives costs down, has actual competition, gives people real options. | ||
| And I think that's going to be a healthy debate. | ||
| Brittany Manney. | ||
| Affordability is a conversation that's here to stay for quite a while. | ||
| And I hate to say that, but we're $38 trillion in debt. | ||
| So the affordability question isn't going away anytime soon. | ||
| What we'll continue to do at EPIC is make sure that we are raising issues so that policymakers can make good decisions about how to stop spending. | ||
| We're seeing consistently that government interference is making the problem worse and we only have a few years to stay off a fiscal crisis. | ||
| Brittany Manney is the executive vice president at the Economic Policy Innovation Center. | ||
| That's epic. | ||
| And you can go to epic4america.org to learn more about the reports that Brittany was citing here this morning. | ||
| Michael Madowitz is a principal economist at Roosevelt Institute and you can go to rooseveltinstitute.org to learn more about that organization as well. | ||
| Thank you both for the conversation. | ||
| Appreciate it. | ||
| Joining us this morning is the political editor of Deadline, Ted Johnson, to talk about the Trump administration's FCC policies and freedom of the press. | ||
| Ted Jones, I want to begin with a recent piece written by you. | ||
| The headline is, FCC launches review of network-affiliate relationships. | ||
| What did you find out? | ||
| Well, first of all, it sounds pretty regulatory and pretty technical, but very simply, what the FCC chairman Brendan Carr has started is looking into the question of whether the broadcast networks, EBC, NBC, Fox, CBS, have too much power over local stations, their affiliates that agree to air the programming. | ||
| This has been a long time concern of affiliate stations that they're just kind of forced to air some of this programming. | ||
| And also, I should say it's also a matter of money that the networks just have so much leverage over them to extract certain affiliate fees. | ||
| So there's a business reason for this, and there's also probably a political reason for this. | ||
| So what we're going to see over the next month is different groups weighing in, different companies weighing in to see if there is anything that the FCC can do to actually change this policy or to actually establish some policy on how those contracts are written between broadcasters and their affiliate stations. | ||
| Now, again, that's a pretty regulatory way of putting things, but I think there's a lot of suspicion on the part of Democrats in particular that this is just another way for the Trump administration to kind of punish major networks because they don't like some of the programming that they're airing, in particular some of the late night shows as well as some of the news programming. | ||
| Another headline from Deadline: Donald Trump continues attacks on ABC with call to drop Jimmy Kimmel after late-night host makes Jeffrey Epstein jokes. | ||
| Ted Johnson? | ||
| Well, This is one in a series of attacks that Trump has made actually through both terms, where he has watched something, whether it's Jimmy Kimmel or Seth Myers, and he'll take to Truth Social and say, Why isn't anything done about this? | ||
| They should lose their license. | ||
| Well, the fact of the matter is, that's a very complicated process. | ||
| It's also a very rare process where the FCC moves and tries to revoke a broadcaster's license. | ||
| I can only cite one instance where it happened. | ||
| It was actually in the late 60s, where there was a station in Mississippi that lost its broadcast license. | ||
| It was advocating segregation. | ||
| So, if you're, you know, look at the historic timeline, you can see how that was probably problematic in that era. | ||
| But it's actually a very kind of draconian process for the FCC to take, in particular, if it's just the president upset over something that he saw on the airwaves. | ||
| If it were to happen, I would imagine that broadcasters would challenge this in court, and in all likelihood, they would win. | ||
| What is the role of the FCC in our government? | ||
| Does it have the authority that you are talking about here? | ||
| Well, yeah, there, you know, first of all, a lot of people kind of misinterpret what the FCC does. | ||
| They will watch something on cable, they will watch something on streaming, and they think, well, how can the FCC allow this? | ||
| Well, the FCC doesn't really have much authority over cable and streaming. | ||
| It has authority over broadcasters. | ||
| This goes back to the 1930s, where it issues broadcast licenses to use the public airwaves. | ||
| In return, broadcasters are supposed to abide by this standard called the public interest standard. | ||
| Now, it's somewhat vague, but it's come to mean localism, it's come to mean diversity, and it's come to mean competition. | ||
| So, there is some leeway that FCC chairmen can take or chairwomen can take in trying to enforce this broadcast, this public interest standard. | ||
| And Brendan Carr, who is a Republican, has come into office even before Trump was sworn in, saying that he wants to take a rigorous view of the public interest standard. | ||
| It's somewhat rare for Republicans who tend to be a little more regulatory, hands-off. | ||
| Now, the FCC also runs up against the First Amendment. | ||
| There actually is limitations on what it can do, and its authority is actually pretty narrow. | ||
| What has happened, though, is Brendan Carr has launched a number of investigations against broadcasters over certain programming. | ||
| And he's also looking at certain complaints that have been filed against broadcasters. | ||
| His detractors, Democrats, and even some former Republican FCC chairmen say that he's overstepping his authority. | ||
| And what he's doing is actually something called jawboning, which is kind of another term for it is regulation by raised eyebrow, where he doesn't necessarily have the authority, but just the threat of the FCC coming down on a local station or coming down on NBC will get broadcasters to actually change their behavior. | ||
| And to a certain extent, that has happened. | ||
| We are talking this morning with Ted Johnson, political editor of Deadline. | ||
| We want all of you to join us in the conversation as well. | ||
| Democrats 202-748-8000. | ||
| Republicans 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Independents 202-748-8002. | ||
| We'll get to your calls in just a minute. | ||
| Ted Johnson, let's listen to the president. | ||
| Here's the most recent example of a dust-up with an ABC news reporter in the Oval Office recently. | ||
| Here's President Trump. | ||
| Why wait for Congress to release the Epstein files? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Why not just do it that way? | |
| It's not the question that I mind, it's your attitude. | ||
| I think you are a terrible reporter. | ||
| It's the way you ask these questions. | ||
| You start off with a man who's highly respected, asking him a horrible, insubordinate, and just a terrible question. | ||
| And you could even ask that same exact question nicely. | ||
| You're all psyched. | ||
| Somebody psyches you over at ABC. | ||
| You're going to psych it. | ||
| You're a terrible person and a terrible reporter. | ||
| People are wise to your hoax. | ||
| And ABC is your company, your crappy company is one of the perpetrators. | ||
| And I'll tell you something. | ||
| I'll tell you something. | ||
| So why not just sign it out? | ||
| I think the license should be taken away from ABC because your news is so fake and it's so wrong. | ||
| And we have a great commissioner, the chairman, who should look at that because I think when you come in and when you're 97% negative to Trump and then Trump wins the election in a landslide, that means obviously your news is not credible. | ||
| President Trump in the Oval Office recently, Ted Johnson, before you respond, I want to show this post by Anna Gomez on X. | ||
| The FCC doesn't get to decide whether the news coverage of those in power is acceptable. | ||
| It has neither the legal authority nor the constitutional right to pursue broadcasters for their journalism. | ||
| These threats sound ominous, but they're empty. | ||
| Who is Ana Gomez? | ||
| Ana Gomez is the sole Democrat on the FCC. | ||
| There are three commissioners right now, so it's a two-to-one split in favor of the Republicans, which is pretty traditional. | ||
| Every administration gets to control the FCC. | ||
| But she has been very outspoken on what has been happening there. | ||
| She calls it an effort by the Trump administration to exert censorship and control over broadcast programming, in particular broadcast news programming. | ||
| The way in for Brendan Carr to kind of address some of these instances where there is a flare-up over some network's news report has been through the FCC's news distortion policy. | ||
| That's a policy that says that broadcasters can't deliberately misrepresent the facts in a broadcast news report. | ||
| It has been rarely enforced. | ||
| And the instances, you know, you can probably count on one hand where it even led to the FCC kind of admonishing the networks. | ||
| Probably the most recent was back in the early 90s when NBC shows Dateline tried to rig a, with explosive devices, tried to rig an auto test. | ||
| It was on a, I think on GM, how they were testing automobile safety. | ||
| And that didn't lead to a fine. | ||
| It didn't lead to broadcast licenses being revoked. | ||
| It led to just kind of a sternly written letter. | ||
| But what Hannah Gomez says is that Carr is way overstepping his bounds when it comes to the news distortion policy. | ||
| And there has been an effort by former FCC chairmen as well as former FCC commissioners, including those in the Reagan administration and the George H.W. Bush administration to revoke the news distortion policy, saying it shouldn't be allowed to be used as a weapon to try to intimidate stations and broadcasters. | ||
| We are talking with Ted Johnson, political editor with Deadline. | ||
| We'll go to Patrick, who's in Naples, Florida, Democratic Caller. | ||
| You're up first, Patrick. | ||
| Question or comment for Ted Johnson about the FCC. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, a question and maybe a comment. | |
| Back in 1933, there was something called the Reich Ministry for Public Enlightenment and Propaganda. | ||
| And the comparison to that and Trump today and how he's taken over our press and how we'll no longer have a free press. | ||
| I think that's all. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Ted Johnson? | ||
| Well, yeah, I don't think we're at that point yet. | ||
| The thing about it is that the courts have, there's quite a bit of case law in the courts that upholds the right of broadcasters, upholds the rights of the press to report freely on issues of public importance. | ||
| And that's why, you know, some of these complaints that have been filed against the FCC, for example, the way that EBC moderated the presidential debate or the way that 60 Minutes edited an interview, a lot of legal experts think that if there were ever an FCC fine or an effort to revoke the license, that it just wouldn't stand up in court, even in the Supreme Court, | ||
| that it just because it runs aground with the First Amendment, it's the FCC getting involved in editorial decisions, which the courts have frowned upon. | ||
| So there is that protection there. | ||
| But again, none of these complaints, none of these investigations, there have been no decisions. | ||
| And companies have, in certain instances, actually changed their policies rather than deal with the headache of trying to challenge the FCC and trying to challenge the Trump administration. | ||
| Barbara is next. | ||
| Whittington, Vermont, Republican. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| So two points. | ||
| Of course, today, they don't just report the news. | ||
| It's opinion, opinion, too many opinions, and there's a million opinions. | ||
| So it's swayed in one direction, definitely anti-Trump today, you know, policy, bad, whatever. | ||
| This is bad. | ||
| But, you know, so it's definitely swayed people's judgments because they just listen to the shows, the opinions. | ||
| How about like a station that just has facts? | ||
| That would be great, like the old days. | ||
| And then I have a question. | ||
| I don't know if he can answer it. | ||
| Back in the 80s or so, when they took off broadcast whatever TV that was free, so we used to have all these channels that were free. | ||
| And then when the cable channels came into play, they said you're going to pay for it because there will be no commercials. | ||
| And that was like a contract of some sort with America. | ||
| That didn't happen. | ||
| So we all know our bills are up to $200 a month, and we get so many commercials and no free TV today. | ||
| Could you explain those two little issues, please? | ||
| Thanks, Barbara. | ||
| Ted Johnson. | ||
| Yes, thank you. | ||
| Those are two good issues. | ||
| The first on the whole idea that there's too much opinion, I think you're certainly right. | ||
| There is no shortage of opinion on cable, even on broadcast. | ||
| One of the reasons that you see that is because it's relatively cheap to produce. | ||
| It costs much less to get two pundits on the air and to go at it rather than to go out and hire a reporter and do a heavily reported news report and a package with a camera person. | ||
| So that it's part of it has to do with money, just the expense of it. | ||
| And the other part is that there's ample examples where opinion tends to get higher ratings than just straight news reporting. | ||
| Part of the reason is that there is quite a lot of straight news reporting out there, whether it's online, whether it's broadcast, whether it's in cable. | ||
| But there have been examples. | ||
| For example, NewsNation is a network that started about five years ago, and they really marketed themselves that, hey, we're going to be unbiased. | ||
| We have like a biased monitor to make sure that we don't lean in one direction or the other. | ||
| And the result, while they have been gaining some in the ratings, they are very far behind any other cable network. | ||
| So it kind of goes back maybe to that whole idea of in the news business: if it bleeds, it leads. | ||
| You know, it's sometimes the loudest voices are the ones that get the attention. | ||
| And who owns that network? | ||
| That is owned by Nexstar. | ||
| And Nexstar right now is trying to buy Tegna, which is another TV station group. | ||
| I should say Nextstar is a station group as well. | ||
| And they're trying to combine right now. | ||
| And that is one of the big rationales that they're making: hey, we really do need more unbiased news out there. | ||
| Your headline, we were showing Ted Johnson on Nexstar. | ||
| Nextstar weighs in after Donald Trump criticizes one of its key deregulatory goals: eliminating the media ownership cap. | ||
| What does Nexstar want, and what is the White House saying? | ||
| Well, there is an FCC regulation that you can, if you are a company, you cannot own stations that cover more than 39%, that reach more than 39% of the households. | ||
| I think that's kind of the exact language. | ||
| Nextstar wants to buy another major station group, Tegna, as I mentioned. | ||
| They would be well beyond the cap. | ||
| So they're trying to merge. | ||
| So that opens the question of how can they do it? | ||
| Well, at the same time, the FCC is looking at whether to raise that 39% cap and essentially deregulation, which would allow Nexstar and Tegna to combine. | ||
| Trump, just a few days ago, to a lot of surprise, said, hey, caution here. | ||
| Maybe this isn't the right thing to do. | ||
| Maybe we should really keep this 39% cap in place. | ||
| He wasn't specific. | ||
| Well, he was specific to the broadcasters, but he wasn't specific as to how this would all work out. | ||
| But I think that that has given Nexstar some pause. | ||
| Even though there's been indications that this FCC supports raising the cap, the president has kind of weighed in and he has a lot of misgivings. | ||
| Keith is in Boulder, Colorado. | ||
| Democratic colour. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, everyone, and happy Thanksgiving. | |
| You're pretty much spot on, but let's not split the baby by half. | ||
| Right-wing media is a threat to our democracy. | ||
| That's a bold statement. | ||
| I'm aware of it. | ||
| But what right-wing media and Trump are doing is akin to McCarthyism, the blacklists of the 1950s and 60s. | ||
| I've spent 30 years in media. | ||
| I'm semi-retired since I've taught school and history. | ||
| And I try to relay this to my students when discussing history. | ||
| I strongly encourage everyone who's interested in the fallacy of media bias or liberal bias. | ||
| There's no liberal bias. | ||
| It's a corporate bias. | ||
| And why I say that is because we learned this from Fred Friendly decades ago, and George Clooney rightly put it in good night, good luck. | ||
| I'd also suggest that everyone watch the film network, which led me into media as a teenager. | ||
| Okay, Keith, I've got to jump in because we are running out of time. | ||
| Ted Johnson, we've got to about a minute here. | ||
| Could you walk us through what you're watching next when it comes to the FCC actions that we talked about this morning? | ||
| Well, the ownership cap is probably the biggest issue because it does impact the Nexstar Tegna merger, which is one of the bigger mergers that we've seen in recent years. | ||
| So that is certainly a major thing that everyone is watching, what they do. | ||
| And also, is there any other FCC action like we saw with Jimmy Kimmel, where the FCC chairman issued this warning and it led to Kimmel being suspended at least for a few days? | ||
| Is there any other instance like that because of the president's upset over certain programming and the FCC's chairman's willingness to take certain action or to make certain statements that lead to such incidents like that? | ||
| For our viewers interested in following Ted Johnson's reporting, go to deadline.com. | ||
| He's the political editor there. | ||
| Thank you very much for the conversation and happy Thanksgiving to you. | ||
| Happy Thanksgiving. | ||
| Thanks so much. | ||
|
unidentified
|
On Thanksgiving Day, starting at 10 a.m. Eastern, C-SPAN presents a day-long America 250 marathon, all part of our more than year-long coverage of historic moments that explore the American story. | |
| At 11 a.m., we'll feature Boston's Freedom Trail through a guided tour featuring the site of the Boston Massacre, Old Statehouse, Faniel Hall, and Old North Church. | ||
| Give me liberty or give me death. | ||
| At 2.30 p.m. Eastern, Patrick Henry's Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death speech on the 250th anniversary and in its original location, St. John's Church in Richmond. | ||
| At 6.05 p.m., the U.S. Navy 250th anniversary Victory at Sea concert in Philadelphia with a musical performance by Patty LaBelle. | ||
| Also at 8 p.m., the 1775 Battle of Bunker Hill, where more than 1,000 reenactors commemorate one of the earliest and most consequential Revolutionary War battles. | ||
| And at 9.30 p.m., a celebration of the U.S. Army's 250th anniversary, featuring a parade through Washington, D.C., an enlistment ceremony, parachute demonstration, and fireworks. | ||
| Watch the America 250 Thanksgiving all-day marathon on Thursday on C-SPAN. | ||
| Also, head over to C-SPAN.org to get the full schedule. | ||
| On Monday, the U.S. Supreme Court hears an oral argument in Cox Communications v. Sony Music, a case questioning whether internet service provider Cox and companies like it can be held liable for their users' copyright infringement. | ||
| We'll have live coverage starting at 10 a.m. Eastern on C-SPAN 2. | ||
| C-SPAN Now, our free mobile app, and online at c-span.org. | ||
| C-SPAN is as unbiased as you can get. | ||
| You are so fair. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't know how anybody can say otherwise. | |
| You guys do the most important work for everyone in this country. | ||
| I love C-SPAN because I get to hear all the voices. | ||
| You bring these divergent viewpoints and you present both sides of an issue and you allow people to make up their own minds. | ||
| I absolutely love C-SPAN. | ||
| I love to hear both sides. | ||
| I've watched C-SPAN every morning and it is unbiased. | ||
| And you bring in factual information for the callers to understand where they are in their comments. | ||
| This is probably the only place that we can hear honest opinion of Americans across the country. | ||
| You guys at C-SPAN are doing such a wonderful job of allowing free exchange of ideas without a lot of interruptions. |