| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
|
unidentified
|
C-SPAN, Democracy Unfiltered. | |
| We're funded by these television companies and more, including Comcast. | ||
| Agriculture is the main life in Sussex County, and I'm very proud of that. | ||
| I felt like we were being left behind. | ||
| Everybody around us seemed to have internet, but we did not. | ||
| When I found out that Comcast was coming, I ran down the road and I said, welcome. | ||
| High-speed internet is one of those good things that we needed to help us move our farming, our small businesses, our recreation forward. | ||
| And now future generations will thrive here in Sussex County. | ||
| Comcast supports C-SPAN as a public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front-row seat to democracy. | ||
| Coming up on C-SPAN's Washington Journal, we'll talk about the Trump administration's immigration enforcement actions in Chicago with Illinois Democratic State Senator Graciela Guzman, who represents Chicago's Northwest Side. | ||
| Then the Economic Policy Innovation Center's Brittany Madney and the Roosevelt Institute's Michael Matowitz discuss topics related to affordability in the U.S. and a look at action being taken by the FCC from threatening broadcasters to reviewing multi-billion dollar media mergers with deadline political editor Ted Johnson. | ||
| Washington Journal starts now. | ||
| This morning on the Washington Journal, we'll get your take on President Trump's enforcement of immigration. | ||
| Federal agents and troops are sent into cities like Chicago, Memphis, Charlotte, Raleigh, and others. | ||
| We want to get your thoughts on the Trump administration's enforcement of immigration. | ||
| Democrats dial in 202-748-8000. | ||
| Republicans 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Independents 202-748-8002. | ||
| You can also text at 202-748-8003 or join us on facebook.com/slash C-SPAN and on X with the handle at C-SPANWJ. | ||
| Morning, everyone. | ||
| We'll get your thoughts in just a minute on the Trump administration's immigration enforcement. | ||
| First, a New York Times poll that was conducted last week. | ||
| Overall, when they asked, how much do you approve or disapprove of the way Donald Trump is handling each of the following issues? | ||
| 45% said they approve on immigration, while 55% said they disapprove of the president's actions. | ||
| But when it comes to border security, 54% approved, while 46% disapproved. | ||
| For many, border security emphasizes safety and the enforcement of boundaries, whereas immigration centers more directly on the people involved. | ||
| Some may approve of strict border enforcement as a security measure, yet feel more conflicted about policies that affect individuals who are already in the United States. | ||
| We'll get your thoughts on this poll as well. | ||
| Do you agree or disagree with these results? | ||
| Calls coming up in that conversation for our first hour of the Washington Journal. | ||
| Joining us from Chicago before we get to your calls is Illinois State Senator Graciela Guzman, who's joining us to talk about the situation in that city. | ||
| Senator Guzman, when the immigration enforcement began in Chicago in September, describe what it was like on the ground. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you for having us. | |
| What it was like on the ground was absolute chaos. | ||
| We would see ICE-related intervention events in parts of my district, sometimes multiple times within the same hour. | ||
| We saw active use of tear gas being deployed in spaces near schools, near emergency rooms, near public spaces, including residential streets and including during a Halloween parade when children and families were out and should have been able to enjoy the holiday. | ||
| We saw the active use of rubber bullets and other violent tactics to deter community neighbors from verbalizing their dissent for what was occurring, but also for trying to protect neighbors. | ||
| Because what we saw in the streets of Chicago and what we've seen across the nation is that almost universally they come with their masks, right? | ||
| They don't tell you who they are. | ||
| So we have the right to ask why they're kidnapping our neighbors, why they're taking our mothers, why they're taking our children, why they're taking valuable community members away from us in such a violent fashion as they fund one of the largest mass deportation events in our country's history while stripping Americans away from their health care, the safety net, and the food that they deserve to have. | ||
| Senator Guzman, you use the word kidnap. | ||
| Is that the appropriate word? | ||
|
unidentified
|
That is absolutely the appropriate word to have. | |
| When you have basically a deputized police force that is coming into our neighborhoods, again, not identifying themselves, not showing up with a signed judicial warrant, actively breaking constitutional rights as they detain not just folks without a warrant, but U.S. citizens in the streets. | ||
| That is what that is. | ||
| That is kidnapping. | ||
| Back to the New York Times poll that we shared at the top. | ||
| Support for deportation varies significantly based on who is being deported and where. | ||
| 77% of those that the New York Times polled said that they agree or approve of deporting immigrants who are here illegally and have criminal records. | ||
| Would you also agree with that? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I think again, one, the very notion of how this administration is seeking to do this in our streets is something that is widely unpopular. | |
| We know that their tactics on the street are widely unpopular. | ||
| We also know that our neighborhoods love the residents that they're within. | ||
| And so something that we saw in Chicago is that while they enacted hundreds and hundreds of detentions, less than 3% of them actually had a criminal record. | ||
| And so they're out here touting that as the reason and the why for why they're doing these tactics when they're even by their own metrics, they're failing at actually finding the people that they intend. | ||
| Meanwhile, they wreak havoc in our community. | ||
| They break down the community's trust in public safety, and they actually make it harder for us to be able to do our jobs on the ground. | ||
| What was happening then with the residents of Chicago who were in these neighborhoods where they saw the federal law enforcement and the troops? | ||
| What was the response? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I think what we've actually seen, and I think this is starting to reflect itself within the poll, is that the vast majority of folks that experience these tactics and see them and hear about who's being detained and experience literally the taste and the smell of the tear gas, the sound of the rubber bullet, that feel, they don't agree. with what is happening in our streets right now. | |
| And they are calling for a different response to be occurring. | ||
| They Are calling for the halt of what is occurring, right? | ||
| And so, I think the poll in itself is reflective of the fact that these trends are continuing across our nation as they leave, quote unquote, the presence of Border Patrol, leave Chicago and enter cities like Charlotte and other locations across the country. | ||
| We know they'll be back in Chicago. | ||
| And so, what we've in fact seen is people weapon, people understanding that what is happening in the streets is something that we're going to have to continue to prepare against, that we are our biggest defense, which is why we saw the cultivation of rapid response all throughout the state of Illinois and why we're using this period to continue to build, because we know that they will be back in larger force, that our neighbors are asking us to defend one another at a moment where the administration is showing that it is truly heartless against the citizenry and people that contribute to our state, | ||
| our families, our folks that deserve to be here. | ||
| Is Democratic Governor J.B. Pritzker doing enough, in your opinion? | ||
|
unidentified
|
You know, I think it's taking all of us, right? | |
| We have seen our attorney general litigate on our behalf. | ||
| We have seen our governor execute executive orders around accountability and transparency. | ||
| We have seen our legislature just come back from a very successful veto session where we took measures to ensure that there's clarification and guidance to protect our sanctified spaces, our hospitals, our courts, our school systems from ICE, right? | ||
| And what should we do? | ||
| Should they emerge, right? | ||
| So we are doing everything we can in the state of Illinois to continue to love, protect, to respect our immigrants, our communities, and our neighbors, because that is what our constituencies are asking of us here in the state of Illinois. | ||
| Graciela Guzman is an Illinois state senator, Democrat. | ||
| Thank you very much for your time from Chicago. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| From the administration's perspective, back to Washington, D.C., let's begin with U.S. Border Patrol Chief Mike Banks, who spoke about the agency's enforcement practices in the United States during an interview with News Nation earlier this month. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Everything we do is targeted enforcement, even at a Home Depot parking lot. | |
| We know who we're looking for in that parking lot. | ||
| We're going after that criminal alien that we've done. | ||
| We've got the intelligence on, we've done the research on. | ||
| And, you know, we have what we call collaterals, which are those other illegals that are in that area. | ||
| And so it should be no surprise that if you target a criminal legal alien, you're going to find other individuals that are illegally in this country and out of status because criminal, illegal aliens prey on the illegal alien community, expecting that they won't be reported. | ||
| Every time we have major operations in the interior of the United States, our entries decrease because we're sending a clear message. | ||
| From News Nation's interview with the U.S. Border Patrol Chief Mike Banks. | ||
| Now, at the White House recently outside in the driveway, Border Czar Tom Homan addressed criticisms that many immigrants that are being arrested do not have or have not committed serious crimes. | ||
| Here's what he had to say. | ||
| If people would just look at the data, the way it reads, that what ICE is doing, the vast majority of public safety trusts, I know some of you here say that's not true because they're not criminals, cannot convict you dead. | ||
| If we arrest somebody in a county jail or state prison that has a criminal, that has a criminal conviction, well, it's not, you know, DUI. | ||
| I read one report says, well, a lot of these are DUIs. | ||
| That's really not a crime. | ||
| Really? | ||
| 12,000 people a year died in DUIs. | ||
| I consider that significant public safety threat. | ||
| But then they say, well, some of these aren't convicted. | ||
| Well, we arrest them in a county jail. | ||
| They're in jail, locked in a jail cell because they're arrested for a crime. | ||
| We consider those convicted and those pending criminal charges criminals. | ||
| But you got a lot of the media saying, well, most of the people in dice detention aren't a criminal. | ||
| Wrong. | ||
| I looked at the data this morning. | ||
| More than half are criminals. | ||
| And as far as what we're arresting, it covers around 64 to 70 percent of criminals. | ||
| And who are the others? | ||
| 30 percent, which the media ignores. | ||
| A lot of them are national security threats. | ||
| Most national security threats don't have a criminal history. | ||
| We arrested several thousand Iraqi nationals. | ||
| Most of them don't have a criminal history. | ||
| Why is that? | ||
| Because they're laying low to do whatever they want to do. | ||
| A lot of them are gang members, a lot of gang members don't have criminal history. | ||
| And like I said, a lot of them are fugitives. | ||
| Those who had due process were removed and went and went. | ||
| Yeah, we have been arresting them. | ||
| But where did most non-fugitive, non-criminals, non-public safety threat, non-national security threats, where did most of them get arrested? | ||
| Sanctuary cities. | ||
| Because rather than giving us the bad guy in the safety and security of a jail, they've released him in the community. | ||
| We go in the community and find them. | ||
| When we find them, many times they're with others. | ||
| Others in the United States illegally. | ||
| But guess what? | ||
| They're going to get arrested too. | ||
| They're in the country legally. | ||
| It's not okay to be in the country legally. | ||
| It's not okay to enter the country legally. | ||
| It's a crime. | ||
| And the message we're not going to send come here illegally. | ||
| Just don't commit another crime and you're safe. | ||
| Not the message we're going to send. | ||
| That's why we had the most secure border in a lifetime in the history of this nation. | ||
| Not only that, let's not forget it. | ||
| It's just not about immigration. | ||
| It's just not about a secure community. | ||
| The stronger the border is, the stronger our national security is because now we have a pretty good hand on who's coming in, what's coming in, where it's coming in, and why it's coming in, which didn't happen in the four years of the Biden administration. | ||
| 2.1 million gotaways, biggest national security vulnerability this country's ever seen. | ||
| President Trump's borders are at the White House recently. | ||
| You've heard from both sides on this debate. | ||
| Who do you agree with? | ||
| And what about this poll from the New York Times? | ||
| Do you agree with these numbers as well? | ||
| Join the conversation this morning in our first hour of the Washington Journal. | ||
| Let's go to Israel's in Crystal River, Florida. | ||
| Democratic caller, you're up first. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, thank you. | |
| Thank you for letting me on. | ||
| Well, this isn't about a political thing. | ||
| It has to deal with hundreds and hundreds of years back when the government and the people from the Caucasus Mountain who came here and have enslaved people within this country have been criminals by deception, by stealing people's lands, by enslaving them by torture. | ||
| And they're the biggest criminals in the White House. | ||
| And they are cannibals and they are part of the elites which eat people. | ||
| Okay, we're going to go on to Lisa, who's in Alexandria, Virginia, Republican. | ||
| Lisa, good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I'm not going to go as far as the last caller, but I just want to remind people that in Chicago, in D.C., in Atlanta, the police have, police, not ICE, have been doing jump-outs with mad, running into people's houses, seizing property of the black Americans that were drug dealers. | ||
| And that's what crime, what fighting was all about when they had the crimes are going, drugs are going into our communities, disrupting and families. | ||
| They've even killed elderly trying to catch a criminal. | ||
| Lisa, what time reference is this? | ||
| What are you referring to? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, what time? | |
| What am I referring to? | ||
| Just back, just back 10 years ago, within the timeframe of 10 years ago, in Atlanta, five years ago, in Atlanta, they shot and it was an 80 or 90-year-old grandmother who was standing at her door and she shot back at the police because they were coming in her house and her grandchildren. | ||
| And you bring that up because of what? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Because what I'm bringing it up because they're distinguishing crime with immigration. | |
| The crime was crossing the border illegally. | ||
| That was the crime. | ||
| And then when you add to that, that they're drug dealers, that to me, I'm like, what they okay, just last A couple of months ago, here in Virginia, they went into a neighborhood where back during the Biden administration, the families didn't even know that there were drug dealers living there. | ||
| Now, I don't know whether they were Hispanic, Biden certainly wasn't chasing down no immigrants, but they were selling drugs right there in the neighborhood. | ||
| They had a factory going. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Lisa's thoughts there in Alexandria, Virginia. | ||
| Avery's in Lynchburg, Virginia, an independent. | ||
| Avery, good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Thanks for taking my call. | ||
| I do want to say I commend what that sister before me was trying to convey before she got cut off. | ||
| And that's basically this ain't this ain't black America's problem. | ||
| And if you look at all the stuff that has happened to Black America, now we're sweeping it under the rug for people coming here illegally. | ||
| I wish that you, the host, had asked Ms. Guzman the question of where was her stats at to say less than 3% of the people who have been detained by ICE were in fact here committing criminal behavior because that's not the case. | ||
| But I will say this, and I will say this more importantly. | ||
| We have a serious illegal immigration problem here in the United States, and I am glad that this president has stepped up to make changes in addressing that matter. | ||
| Because I think about Jamil Shaw. | ||
| I think about Lake and Riley. | ||
| I think about Diana Perez. | ||
| I think about Jocelyn and Gary, all these people who have been victimized just because our government did not have the courage to tell someone, you are not allowed in this country unless you come the right way. | ||
| It is disrespectful to every law-abiding immigrant who has to come through the process when we say, first, let's change the definition of calling people undocumented. | ||
| They're not. | ||
| They're illegal immigrants by definition and by law. | ||
| But when we say, let's change the name of those people and then also let's give them a ride to the front where so many people have worked hard just to come here into the United States. | ||
| I'm sorry. | ||
| And that's not the way it works. | ||
| And unfortunately, you guys need to ask tougher questions to these politicians like Ms. Guzman. | ||
| And I'm really disappointed that you kind of let her off the hook with that. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Avery there in Lynchburg. | ||
| Can I ask you, Avery, about this New York Times poll? | ||
| Curious about how you would respond if you were taking this poll when they asked about using active duty military to find and detain undocumented immigrants. | ||
| Would you say if you were asked approve or disapprove of that? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I would approve it because it's a federal issue. | |
| Anybody comes into a foreign country, it's legally, it's a federal issue. | ||
| It's not a city issue. | ||
| It's not a state issue. | ||
| It's a federal issue. | ||
| So yes, you should use active military because those are foreign agents coming into your country. | ||
| I mean, that's common sense. | ||
| All right, another one for you. | ||
| Deporting immigrants that came to the United States illegally as children. | ||
| Approve or disapprove, Avery? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I would disapprove of that because those children were brought here to no fault of their own. | |
| However, they would be put on a process to gain citizenship. | ||
| See, we can have these honest conversations without the Ms. Guzmans of the world actually being elected officials tarnishing an intelligent conversation on doing practical things to help all the American people but have empathy for those children who are brought here to no fault of their own, but by bad parents and parents who didn't want to follow the process. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Avery's thoughts there in Lynchburg, Virginia. | ||
| A couple more questions from that poll. | ||
| Using money allocated to the U.S. military to pay for deportations. | ||
| 41% disapproved of that when the New York Times asked that question. | ||
| Deporting immigrants who are in the country legally, 76% disapproved. | ||
| We shared with you at the top that 77% agreed with deporting immigrants who are here illegally and have criminal records. | ||
| 43% approved of deporting those who fail to show up at an immigration status hearing. | ||
| 30% approved for deporting immigrants who are here illegally and arrived over the last four years. | ||
| While 14% approved deporting all immigrants who are here illegally. | ||
| This is a New York Times poll conducted recently. | ||
| Back to our conversation with all of you. | ||
| What's your view of the Trump administration's immigration enforcement? | ||
| Andy, West Windsor, New Jersey, Democratic caller. | ||
| Hi, Andy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, thank you so much. | |
| I'm a long-term listener, and once or twice a year I called in. | ||
| First of all, I love Washington Journal, and I love you. | ||
| However, I just have a quick comment before I make my comments. | ||
| I'd appreciate if you interact with us more as opposed to showing a lot of news clips. | ||
| The more time that us listeners could interact with you, you're a great interviewer, and you really bring out the best in us. | ||
| But, you know, just do less of the newscasting and more interacting with us. | ||
| Andy, it's a balancing act of giving you information to respond to, showing you what both sides are saying on a debate, and also making sure that we're weaving in other news that Washington is reading about and debating and deciding on. | ||
| So it's a balancing act. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's fine. | |
| But, you know, you're wonderful. | ||
| Okay, I just read in the news that a cousin of Caroline Levitt's has been detained by ICE. | ||
| I'm just curious as to how that's going to be handled. | ||
| It looked like it was, you know, I'd like to just see how it's going to be handled. | ||
| And I'm happy, you know, it's just, it's sort of a mess in terms of going after long-term people who have been good citizens the way they're being treated. | ||
| That's all I have to say. | ||
| And thanks for doing a great job. | ||
| Oh, just one more comment. | ||
| When people say you're biased, you know, the hatred with Washington Journal, it just kind of, you let them go on, but just ignore it. | ||
| You guys are doing a fantastic job. | ||
| Thanks, Andy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you very much. | |
| I appreciate that. | ||
| Here's a headline. | ||
| White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt's relative detained by ICE, NBC, with that headline, the mother of Levitt's nephew is subject to deportation. | ||
| If you are interested in reading that. | ||
| John in Troy, New York, a Republican. | ||
| Hi, John. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| How are you? | ||
| Morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, my good. | |
| My only comment was that, you know, basically immigration should be a legal process and the mess that occurred under Biden couldn't continue. | ||
| And when you say do you approve of Trump's handling of immigration? | ||
| Well, the alternative to that was you have to look at the flip side is suppose Harris had won the election. | ||
| When you have 10,000 illegals crossing the border every single day, how long could that be sustainable? | ||
| And it couldn't. | ||
| So you people can criticize Trump for, oh, being too aggressive or what, whatever your criticism is. | ||
| But if you look at the alternative, it y it couldn't happen. | ||
| It couldn't just keep going the way it is. | ||
| The reason he's aggressively going after these illegal aliens now is because Joe Biden and Kamala Harris let in 10 to 15, or whatever the number is, million, in the last three years of their administration. | ||
| So it's not a question of, you know, he has the right to deport these people. | ||
| They're not legal citizens and they came in illegally. | ||
| Now, you can't say people say, you know, immigration could be a legal process. | ||
| It should be a legal process, but you say that nowadays in Democrats and liberal shape, Don't racist, which is ridiculous. | ||
| So, you know, you can't win either way. | ||
| So, yeah, I think the illegal aliens should be deported. | ||
| Children, I think they should be given a path to citizenship. | ||
| And it has to be an orderly process. | ||
| And that's something that it absolutely was a complete opposite of under Biden and Harris. | ||
| So, John, it sounds like you make the same distinction from an earlier, as an earlier caller did when it comes to children who were brought here into the United States. | ||
| That's where you would say they can stay, but there has to be some sort of process for making them legal. | ||
| Is that correct? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah. | |
| I mean, I do feel bad for these people, but it's the administration's fault for letting them all in to begin with. | ||
| But, you know, if someone's been here for 20 years, yeah, I would give them some sort of ticket to, especially, I mean, I'm not talking about gang members or drug dealers or anything like that. | ||
| Those people should be out, no questions asked. | ||
| But you have somebody who's been here for years and years. | ||
| I think they should be given some sort of advantage into a path to citizenship if they've been productive members of society for the last God knows how many years. | ||
| But the situation under Biden and Harris couldn't continue. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Yep, John, we heard that point. | ||
| I'm going to go to Adriana, who's in East Islam, New York, Independent. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I just was wondering, I heard you describe this as immigration enforcement. | |
| And I think that it would be more appropriate to describe it as immigration law enforcement, because the issue is the laws. | ||
| If we have laws and we don't respect it, why do we bother having laws? | ||
| And also, I would like to say that my parents from Italy, they got on a waiting list. | ||
| When they did, the list was 10 years long. | ||
| Now, it's disrespectful not to respect the laws of a country you want to be part of. | ||
| And how disrespectful it is, especially now on Thanksgiving, when people go to buy stuff and somebody cuts ahead of the line, that's probably, you know, a short line compared to waiting 10 years to get on that line. | ||
| So I think it's totally disrespectful to people that want to obey the law to favor those who don't. | ||
| Understood. | ||
| Understood. | ||
| So let me weave in this headline into the conversation for all of you to react to. | ||
| Federal judge restricts ICE's ability to make arrests without getting warrants. | ||
| A federal judge in Colorado ruled Tuesday that ICE has been too aggressive in arresting unauthorized immigrants without warrants saying agents had stretched an exception covering immigrants likely to flee beyond the breaking point when they arrested longtime immigrants who aren't going to run. | ||
| The district judge, an Obama appointee, issued new rules restricting the ability of ICE to make arrests in Colorado. | ||
| He told agents they cannot simply arrest an immigrant for being in the country illegally and must obtain an administrative warrant first unless they have a particular reason to believe their target will flee. | ||
| Judge Jackson said that's not likely in cases involving longtime, unauthorized immigrants. | ||
| We're talking about your view of immigration enforcement under the Trump administration. | ||
| Let's hear from Janice in Arkansas, Democratic caller. | ||
| Hi, Janice. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| How are you? | ||
| Morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, I would just like to say that immigration, the way they're going about it, pulling people out of their cars and stuff, that's wrong because at the end of the day, they are still human beings. | |
| And second of all, I would like to say the Republican caller, when he was seeing illegal aliens, I despise that word because people didn't fall from the sky. | ||
| They are human beings still. | ||
| And then also, I would like to address the issue: he's calling Kamla Harris Kamala. | ||
| Her name is not Kamala, it's Kamla Harris. | ||
| She's not an ape. | ||
| So I believe he's a racist. | ||
| All right, Janice, there, Democratic caller in Arkansas, DHS Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs, Tricia McLaughlin, spoke with Border Patrols, spoke about Border Patrol operations in Charlotte and defended the agency's tactics there. | ||
| Here's a portion of her interview on NewsNation last week. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Why North Carolina? | |
| What's it thinking about going in there? | ||
| Well, there's definitely a bad crime and really gang problem there, particularly MS-13. | ||
| We've seen that in northern Charlotte, there's actually a 200% increase in homicides in that location, but it's also geographically where those highways are make it a real hub for human trafficking. | ||
| We know it's number nine in the country because of that. | ||
| It's become a hub through that highway system from Florida to New York. | ||
| Lots of trafficking, whether it be labor, sex, or human trafficking. | ||
| We're seeing a lot of that there. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So we've seen the operations. | |
| We've seen, as Allie Bradley just reported on, but there's other scenes that are coming out as well. | ||
| For example, in Charlotte, people were hanging up Christmas lights. | ||
| They got stopped asking where you're from. | ||
| And then this was another scene. | ||
| Let's roll it real quick, and then I'll get your reaction on the other side in Charlotte as well. | ||
| That ended up being an American citizen. | ||
| When people hear those stories and see those videos, how do you square, okay, this is what we're trying to do with this is what some folks are actually experiencing? | ||
| Well, that individual was not complying with lawful orders by law enforcement. | ||
| So if it's a U.S. citizen or an illegal alien, if you're not complying with law enforcement, they have reasonable suspicion, and then they will take measures. | ||
| They were using their training to take measures into their hands to make sure for their own safety and for the public safety. | ||
| But I will say, I mean, Atli noted it. | ||
| Multiple gang members, perpetrators who are committing assault against law enforcement, aggravated assault. | ||
| These are people who you should not want in your community. | ||
| Those in Charlotte don't want in their community. | ||
| And for that governor to claim that there is racial profiling going on is absolutely absurd. | ||
| But that kind of rhetoric is leading to the attacks we're seeing on law enforcement. | ||
| The last two days we had vehicles being weaponized and used for ramming of our law enforcement. | ||
| That is the rhetoric and the conduct we're seeing that's increasing those death threats against our law enforcement officers. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Why Louisville and New Orleans next? | |
| I'm not going to telegraph what is coming next, but those who are violent in this country, criminal legal aliens, there's no safe haven. | ||
| We will go wherever we need to go, a blue state or red state. | ||
| Doesn't matter. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Will be there. | |
| The Homeland Security Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs, Tricia McLaughlin, on NewsNation. | ||
| Now, let's listen to the North Carolina governor, Democrat Josh Stein. | ||
| He released a video message after the arrival of Border Patrol in Charlotte. | ||
| Here's what he had to say. | ||
|
unidentified
|
To the CBP, if you know that we have violent criminals in Charlotte who are undocumented, we want them out too. | |
| Everyone wants to be safe in their communities. | ||
| But the actions of too many federal agents are doing the exact opposite in Charlotte. | ||
| We've seen masked, heavily armed agents in paramilitary garb driving unmarked cars, targeting American citizens based on their skin color, racially profiling and picking up random people in parking lots and off of our sidewalks, going after landscapers simply decorating a Christmas tree in someone's front yard, and entering churches and stores to grab people. | ||
| This is not making us safer. | ||
| It's stoking fear and dividing our community. | ||
| I want to say a word about immigration. | ||
| We are a nation of immigrants, and our state and this country is stronger because of our immigrant communities. | ||
| Unfortunately, our immigration system is broken. | ||
| But rather than fix it, the federal government continues to play politics with it. | ||
| It is long past time for Congress to act. | ||
| We need strong borders. | ||
| We must hold accountable and deport anyone who has committed a serious crime. | ||
| And we must create a path to legal status for those who've been here a long time, paid their taxes, and followed the law, especially our dreamers who came to this country as very young children. | ||
| North Carolina, I know this is a stressful moment, but please stay peaceful. | ||
| And if you see something wrong, record it and report it to local law enforcement. | ||
| North Carolina's Governor Josh Stein there in a video message about law enforcement and troops in the city of Charlotte. | ||
| They're officially in Raleigh, Chicago, Memphis, Washington, D.C. | ||
| And we're getting your take on the president's immigration tactics. | ||
| Do you agree or disagree with them? | ||
| Tell us why. | ||
| Lloyd in West Virginia, Republican. | ||
| Morning, Lloyd. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Thanks for taking my call. | ||
| I'd just like to say that the way I look at it, during the Biden administration, they couldn't or wouldn't shut down the border, but they sure knew how to shut down the government. | ||
| And when we had an illegal invasion, which caused a lot of money and caused a lot of problems, and shutting down the government, it cost a lot of money. | ||
| And they show just how much they think of the country and the American people. | ||
| And they're always calling in saying, well, the country's divided, but who's doing the shooting and the killing? | ||
| Who shot Charlie Kirk and who shot Donald Trump and who shot Mr. Scalise? | ||
| And that's about the way I look at it. | ||
| Ricardo in Philadelphia, Independent. | ||
| Your turn, Ricardo. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I was just digesting the stuff that was being said. | |
| For the last caller, do some research, and you'll see the crime is not always offered by who you think it is. | ||
| I'm going to leave it there. | ||
| Second, I'm a Christian. | ||
| All God's life forms need water, safe place to live, and food. | ||
| And all life forms migrate, whether they're birds, a deer, or a human being, when their food, water, and safe living space is threatened. | ||
| There's no focus on the problem, and that's one of the problems. | ||
| Jason in San Diego, Democratic caller. | ||
| Jason. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, good morning. | |
| I would like to say that Donald Trump, President Trump, likes a lot of visual stuff that he's doing. | ||
| For example, he will never, ever earn the title at Barack Obama as Deporter-in-Chief. | ||
| Barack Obama has deported more people and illegal aliens than he has. | ||
| He wants you to think that he's doing that and he's making something scaring everybody. | ||
| But Barack Obama, they know how to do it. | ||
| They know how to deport people left and right. | ||
| They didn't have all these guns and mass people arounding up people and stuff. | ||
| He likes chaos. | ||
| He wants you to think that something's going on. | ||
| That's all I got to say. | ||
| All right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He's not the deporter-in-chief. | |
| Jason, a Democrat in San Diego. | ||
| Here is one of our viewers on X. | ||
| The deportations are going much too slow. | ||
| We need greater penalties for harboring and employing them. | ||
| All immigration should be halted for a decade. | ||
| Then you also have a viewer texting 100% approve of Trump's efforts to save this country. | ||
| If they came illegally, they need to go home and follow the law to return. | ||
| That's Mike in Hillsboro, North Carolina. | ||
| You also have Barb in Long Grove, Illinois. | ||
| My view of immigration enforcement under the Trump administration is that it is too heavy-handed and even indiscriminate at times, with many persons that are citizens being detained. | ||
| Your view of immigration enforcement under the Trump administration. | ||
| We're taking your calls here the first hour of the Washington Journal. | ||
| We want you to tell Washington your take on this debate that's happening here. | ||
| Democrats, 202-748-8000. | ||
| Republicans, 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Independents, 202-748-8002. | ||
| You can text if you don't want to call at 202-748-8003. | ||
| Just include your first name, city, and state. | ||
| Happening last night, President Trump on Air Force One yesterday on his way to Florida to celebrate the Thanksgiving holiday answered questions about health care and the Affordable Care Act subsidies. | ||
| Here's an exchange he had with a reporter when he was asked if he has a health care plan. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mr. President, are you planning to unveil a health care plan anytime soon? | |
| Well, we're looking at different alternatives. | ||
| I mean, I like my plan the best. | ||
| Don't give any money to the insurance companies. | ||
| Give it to the people directly. | ||
| Let them go out and buy their own health care plan. | ||
| And we're looking at that, if that can work. | ||
| We're looking at that. | ||
| That's sort of taking off. | ||
| That's what I like. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Don't give the money to the insurance companies. | |
| They go out. | ||
| They go out and buy their own plan. | ||
| You give the money to the people. | ||
| I like it the best. | ||
| Are you planning to extend those subsidies? | ||
| I'd rather not. | ||
| Somebody said I want to extend them for two years. | ||
| I don't want to extend it for two years. | ||
| I'd rather not extend them at all. | ||
| And maybe some kind of an extension may be necessary to get something else done because the Unaffordable Care Act has been a disaster. | ||
| It's a disaster. | ||
| And I said it was when it first got put in. | ||
| Unfortunately, we lost a couple of Republican votes, and the Democrats voted for it. | ||
| It's a Democrat plan. | ||
| And the premiums are going up, and it's the Democrats' fault. | ||
| But, you know, they are negotiating with me. | ||
| It's very interesting. | ||
| They want to see something happen. | ||
| Who are you talking to? | ||
| I can't tell you who, but we have a lot of Democrats want this plan to happen. | ||
| They would love to see the money go to the people and the people go out and get their own health care. | ||
| And there would be nothing like it. | ||
| President Trump on Air Force One yesterday. | ||
| What he said is on the front pages of the newspapers this morning, starting with the Washington Times, Republicans I HSAs to channel subsidies directly to consumers. | ||
| So, those health savings acts, that's what the president was referring to. | ||
| Republicans say providing aid to consumers through these health saving acts will give them more flexibility over their health care choices than the enhanced subsidies, which are tax credits mostly paid in advance to insurance companies to lower what Obamacare customers pay out of pocket for their premiums. | ||
| That's the Washington Times this morning. | ||
| There's also this in the front page of the New York Times: Trump considers extension of aid for Obamacare, a program he reviled. | ||
| Pressure grows to avoid spike in health care costs as these subsidies end. | ||
| So, in the short term, there would be an extension of these Obamacare subsidies. | ||
| And the USA today, with the headline, Trump's health care plan is on hold after GOP pushback. | ||
| Policy details are expected as subsidies end looms. | ||
| So, that is a debate that is at the forefront of Washington here heading into Thanksgiving holiday. | ||
| And when Congress returns in December, when these subsidies, the deadline expires at the end of the month. | ||
| Other headlines to share with you: you've probably seen in the news. | ||
| This is from the New York Times: Russia strikes Ukraine and signals resistance to amended peace plan. | ||
| There is talks, as you all know, the president sending defense officials along with Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, Steve Witkoff, others, and they are negotiating a possible peace deal between Ukraine and Russia. | ||
| Here's the New York Times as well: Rubio's attempts to frame a pro-Russia peace plan as middle ground. | ||
| So, more to come on that story as well. | ||
| Back to our conversation with all of you about immigration enforcement by the Trump administration. | ||
| Deanna in Oklahoma, Republican. | ||
| Deanna, good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Good morning. | ||
| I do agree with the current administration's policy on immigration. | ||
| I think a lot of it comes down to basic legality and financial resources. | ||
| Our family has been hurt several times because jobs were denied, positions were canceled because they could get someone in that would do it so much cheaper. | ||
| That undermines the American economy. | ||
| And if they're here illegally, then they need to be deported. | ||
| I don't, I travel and I don't go into another country without having my documentation. | ||
| That's just a forgiven, a given, you know, that you carry your documents with you. | ||
| Unfortunately, they can't produce that. | ||
| If they can't produce that, then they have been given away that they could go back to their home countries and come back in legally. | ||
| I think that's where it is. | ||
| It's all about the legality of whether they can be here or not. | ||
| I would not go into another country expecting them to accept me illegally. | ||
| And that's what they have done. | ||
| And that's it. | ||
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| Thank you, Deanna, for your thoughts. | ||
| Paul is in Boston and Independent. | ||
| Paul, we'll turn to you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| Yeah, first of all, I'd like to wish all listeners a happy Thanksgiving, a safe and peaceful Thanksgiving. | ||
| My outlook on the The immigration situation that seems to be brought to the forefront by the media is that like my mother's grandparents, my father's parents came over legally. | ||
| They filled up the proper paperwork. | ||
| They settled. | ||
| They assimilated. | ||
| They, you know, they too face some discrimination in certain fields. | ||
| But I'm wondering about the actual documentation, like the census, like if the census are even accurate, the way they're portrayed or the positioning that political, some political elected officials take, whereas people are the minority, and I don't think the minority is as great. | ||
| I don't think there's such a gap. | ||
| It seems to be, you know, like the mayor of Boston, the governor of Massachusetts. | ||
| I mean, they were, through the Democratic process, we asked for an audit so that the state secretary, the state auditor, could actually just open up the books and show the people where tax monies were allocated and if they were transferred from this program to that program. | ||
| And it's almost turned into like they're defensive. | ||
| It's like elected officials, senators, and legislators on Beacon Hill are offended that the general public, the taxpayers, want to just take a look at the receipts and the transcripts. | ||
| I mean, it's not democracy. | ||
| It's not the same democracy. | ||
| I grew up, I mainly leaned towards Democratic politicians when I was growing up. | ||
| I supported them. | ||
| I stood out. | ||
| I did lit drops. | ||
| I financially donated to them. | ||
| But I shifted over to being an independent. | ||
| And it's just, it's hard to, you know, it's hard to actually get people to follow through. | ||
| And Paul, is it immigration? | ||
| Is that the issue that pushed you more toward being an independent? | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's, yes. | |
| I mean, it's, I don't, like, why isn't there more transparency in democracy? | ||
| All right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
In my state, it's an overwhelmingly blue state. | |
| All right. | ||
| And it's like, Paul, I got other folks waiting, so I'll move on to David in Cincinnati, Democratic caller. | ||
| David? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| I need you to straighten these people out about a lot of the lies that the Trump administration keeps telling about immigration. | ||
| I mean, really? | ||
| They're saying that 30 million people came in here. | ||
| Didi Vance says that 30 million people came in here during the last four years. | ||
| 30 million people came in here in the last 30 years, not the last four years. | ||
| And this guy talking about 10,000 people a day coming in here during the Biden administration. | ||
| That's ridiculous. | ||
| It's ridiculous. | ||
| And why don't Trump tell him about his grandfather coming in here illegally because he had forged phony papers and changed his name just to get into the United States. | ||
| All right, David. | ||
| And in case you missed it earlier, New York Times out with a poll last week, how Americans feel about immigrants and immigration. | ||
| And when you dig into the poll from the New York Times, they show that there's a difference between how Americans feel about immigration versus border security. | ||
| When asked, overall, how much do you approve or disapprove of the way Donald Trump is handling each of the following issues? | ||
| On immigration, 45% approve, while 55% disapprove of his handling of immigration. | ||
| But when they ask about border security, 54% approve of the president's border security policies, while 46% disapprove. | ||
| Dig a little bit deeper into these questions. | ||
| Support for deportations varies significantly based on who is being deported and where. | ||
| When they asked, Do you approve of deporting immigrants who are here illegally and have criminal records? | ||
| 77% approve. | ||
| 43% approve when asked deporting those who fail to show up for an immigration status hearing. | ||
| And 30% approve of the action of deporting immigrants who are here illegally and arrived over the last four years. | ||
| Well, 14% approve of deporting immigrants who are here illegally. | ||
| The numbers of disapproval, 21% disapprove of using active duty military to find out to find and detain undocumented immigrants. | ||
| 29% disapprove of deporting immigrants that came to the United States illegally as children. | ||
| 41% disapprove using money allocated to the U.S. military for deportations. | ||
| And when they asked deporting immigrants who are in the country legally, 76% of those polled disapprove of that. | ||
| Where do all of you come down? | ||
| If you were to answer this poll, what would you say? | ||
| Tom in Maryland, Republican caller. | ||
| Tom, good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I just don't want to say that I agree with what the president's doing and his administration. | |
| The sad thing is that the reason it's come about is the previous administration said they did not have an open border policy, yet they didn't enforce any border policy. | ||
| So they just let people come over uncontrolled, and now this is the equal opposite reaction. | ||
| They're forced to do this, and now they look like the bad guys, when the bad guys were the ones that didn't try to control the illegal immigration in the first place. | ||
| All right, Tom. | ||
| Tom, a Republican in Maryland, Gigi in Virginia and Independent. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Gigi, what do you say? | |
| Yeah, Greta, you know, I think the current administration are the bad guys, not because they're trying to enforce immigration law, but because of the way that they are enforcing immigration law, | ||
| abusing people, arresting people without knowing their status, pulling them out of their vehicles, breaking their vehicle windows when the person inside is telling them, I'm a citizen, I can show you proof that I'm a citizen, but they are still not satisfied with that response. | ||
| It's not the fact that they're trying to enforce immigration law, it's the way that they are doing it. | ||
| There's no due process. | ||
| President Obama deported more people than even this current president or this current administration deported, but they did it in a lawful, dignified manner. | ||
| This is a savage way of attempting to get a hold of the illegal immigration issue in this country. | ||
| And they're not arresting the worst of the worst. | ||
| They're not deporting the criminals. | ||
| They are deporting legal citizens, many of them. | ||
| Gigi, how do you know this? | ||
| How do you know this? | ||
| Where do you get numbers? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Where do you get it? | |
| Okay, Greta, in the video that you just showed, and I'm bilingual, the individual that was arrested said he was a citizen. | ||
| And he also said, you break my window, you'll pay for my window, which meaning the window of the vehicle. | ||
| And that's exactly what's going on. | ||
| The abuse, the chaos, it's almost like this country has forgotten these are human beings. | ||
| Do you think Hispanics are not human beings? | ||
| African Americans who are so anti-Hispanic, do you not even relate in a tiny little bit with a sense that these are human beings that are being physically, mentally, even children are being abused? | ||
| Children are being abused. | ||
| How in the world, you know, you know what I wonder often, Greta? | ||
| How many people who were in Abu Ghraib, you know, doing their deeds, are here now working for ICE? | ||
| I really wonder often if that's not what is going on, because the level of abuse that is being perpetrated against the Hispanic or Latino, Latina population is absolutely scary to me. | ||
| It's something that I have never seen. | ||
| All right. | ||
| I'm going to jump in because we have other people. | ||
| Brenda, South Carolina, Democratic caller. | ||
| Brenda, what do you say? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, how are you? | |
| First of all, sorry, I have a little bit of a cold. | ||
| If you guys could have Jacob Silveros on, because he's been following this for a long time. | ||
| He can give a lot more information. | ||
| The second thing is I don't think people understand how long it takes to come in legally, get a green card. | ||
| That's why a lot of people come over on student visas, go to school for a while, and then try to get status. | ||
| But it takes decades. | ||
| And Trump, we were already behind on trying to move people through immigration courts, and I believe they fired something like 600 judges, which made the problem worse. | ||
| So it tells you he's really not interested in getting people to be legalized unless they're right skin color. | ||
| The other thing we don't think about is the federal minimum wage. | ||
| If you go from 1998 to 2006, when I think it had the one increase of $2.10, it hasn't changed since then. | ||
| So in a span of 27 years, we've had one increase in the federal minimum wage. | ||
| So if you can't get workers here to work for $7.25 an hour, you're going to get people that work in other countries for $2 and $3 to come over. | ||
| So if we don't raise the wages here for the people that live here, you're driving immigration here for those low-wage jobs. | ||
| And what about H-1B? | ||
| What about H-1B visas, the visas that allow immigrants to come here to work for specialized jobs? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Do you agree with those? | |
| Yeah, I mean, there's some jobs that people just don't know how to do, don't have the experience to do. | ||
| We have to rework our system and teach our kids. | ||
| First of all, we got to get our kids off the phone because they don't even make their beds. | ||
| I mean, give me a break. | ||
| You know, so we have this attitude that Americans are going to do every job that there is to do. | ||
| And they're not. | ||
| They're just not. | ||
| They're in South Carolina. | ||
| There's a lot of construction going on here. | ||
| And if you go to a construction site, you don't see the 20-year-old white kid or black kid. | ||
| You just don't. | ||
| Some of those things like the sanding. | ||
| Have you ever seen them sand sheet rock in a house? | ||
| It's a terrible job. | ||
| All right, Brenda, I'm going to jump in and share with folks from Politico's reporting this morning. | ||
| In recent months, the president and Vice President JD Vance have struck subtly different tones on the H-1B program, which awards visas to foreign workers working in high-skill industries. | ||
| Trump, who promised to end the program during his 2016 campaign, recently defended it as a necessary tool for bolstering domestic capacity in advanced industries like defense technology and semiconductor manufacturing. | ||
| In an interview with Fox News in early November, Trump argued that the program is necessary to fill gaps in the America's high-skilled workforce, saying, You have to bring in talent. | ||
| You can't take people off the unemployment line and say, go make missiles. | ||
| Vance, meanwhile, has offered a more skeptical take on that justification, arguing that the current gaps in the high-skilled labor force can be filled by American workers. | ||
| Quote, this idea that American citizens don't have the talent to do great things and that you have to import a foreign class of servants and professors to do these things, I just reject that, he said in an interview with Newsmax earlier this year. | ||
| We're talking about immigration enforcement under the Trump administration. | ||
| Philip in Dayton, Ohio, an independent. | ||
| Good morning, Philip. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Philip, you there? | ||
| There we go. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, I'm sorry. | |
| Yes, good morning. | ||
| I'm a Vietnam-era vet. | ||
| I'm also an African-American. | ||
| I'm a descendant of slave, of course, you know. | ||
| But everybody in the government, or not everybody, but the administration, the president, are taking too simplicity too simplistic an idea to enforce the immigration laws. | ||
| They believe these little civil things is going to solve it. | ||
| When President Trump got in office, he said he's going to get rid of all the bad apples. | ||
| Well, I used to know about farmers. | ||
| He said, when your barn door is open and the essential livestock leave out the barn, how are you going to get them back in the bar? | ||
| How are you going to make the sense of chasing them up to these people that you really don't know if they committed a crime or not? | ||
| Whether you're legal or illegal? | ||
| See, that's the problem. | ||
| See, when someone wants to determine they're illegal, that puts a red flag at everybody's head and it makes them think about the fact: oh, they're different. | ||
| Oh, we can't have them here. | ||
| Ma'am, difference is what makes America strong. | ||
| You know, the fact that different races contribute to the effect of democracy in this part of the world, you know, that's what's supposed to be making us strong. | ||
| I'm sorry being kind of caught up and nerves and stuff, but I believe there's too much, everybody's going back to the old ways of, you know, taking racism or biases and stuff. | ||
| And they think, oh, yeah, it's bad, it's bad. | ||
| They're going to take my property. | ||
| Now, come on. | ||
| All right, Philip. | ||
| We heard your point. | ||
| We'll go to Jack, who's a Republican in Caledonia, Wisconsin. | ||
| Hi, Jack. | ||
|
unidentified
|
How are you this morning? | |
| Morning, Jack. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Happy Thanksgiving to everybody. | |
| Now, as far as immigration is concerned, okay, most of the people that crossed the borders the last, you know, during the Biden administration came here under the assimilate law of asylum. | ||
| Okay, they're seeking asylum. | ||
| And I bet you 90% of the people listening don't understand what the word asylum means. | ||
| Simply put, that the people are leaving the country because the government is coming after them. | ||
| Okay, not that they can't find a job and not that they live in a city that's run by drugs cartels. | ||
| Is the government coming after you? | ||
| Okay, for any reason, whether you're speaking out against the government or anything. | ||
| But it's the government, it's their local government or state or federal government that is coming after them. | ||
| That's why they're leaving. | ||
| Religious or political persecution. | ||
|
unidentified
|
People claim asylum. | |
| And you're saying these asylum claims were not true or just? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Not valid at all. | |
| Not valid. | ||
| You can't say that 10 million people have left their countries, okay, because their government is persecuting them. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| What if there is no government, no effective government, and there are gangs and drug cartels controlling? | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's not part of a crime. | |
| You know, and that's the whole, you know, that's the whole thing. | ||
| The other thing is if people read the 14th Amendment, the first sentence of the 14th Amendment, it clearly states, okay, that the government has to have jurisdiction over the parents before they can give the child citizenship. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And the government does not have jurisdiction over an illegal migrant. | ||
| And the simple test of that is if the United States gets into a war and the government enacts a draft, can the government go and draft all these illegal military-aged people? | ||
| And the answer is no, because they don't have jurisdiction over this individual. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Jack, I will go to John, who's in High Point, North Carolina, Democratic Caller. | ||
| Hi, John. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, good morning, Ms. Greta. | |
| How you feeling this morning? | ||
| Morning. | ||
| Share your thoughts with us, John. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, ma'am. | |
| My question is, I've been watching all this news going on, and I see the Trump administration, they've targeted low-income housing projects areas, but I've never seen ICE going to Chinatown. | ||
| Never see ICE going into the Irish pubs. | ||
| Never see none of that on television. | ||
| Can you explain to me why is that happening? | ||
| All right, John. | ||
| We'll have to leave it there. | ||
| We are at the top of the hour. | ||
| Later on in the Washington Journal, from threatening broadcasters to reviewing multi-billion dollar media mergers, the FCC and the Trump administration is flexing its regulatory muscle. | ||
| We're going to talk about that with the FCC's actions with Ted Johnson, who's the political editor for Deadline. | ||
| After the break, as the holiday shopping season is about to begin, we'll take a deep dive into economic conditions in the United States with Brittany Madney of the Economic Policy Innovation Center and Michael Matowitz from the Roosevelt Institute. | ||
| Stay with us for that conversation coming up on the Washington Journal. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Friday, on C-SPAN's Ceasefire, at a time when finding common ground matters most in Washington, host Dasha Burns sits down with Cornell West, Union Theological Seminary professor, and Robert George, Princeton University professor, for a civil dialogue on rising political polarization in the U.S. and top issues facing the country. | |
| Bridging the Divide in American Politics. | ||
| Watch Ceasefire Friday at 7 p.m. and 10 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN. | ||
| On the day after Thanksgiving, on Friday, C-SPAN will present a marathon lineup of episodes from our new weekly series, America's Book Club, hosted by acclaimed author and civic leader David Rubenstein from 10 a.m. to 7 p.m. Eastern. | ||
| Filmed at some of the nation's most iconic libraries and cultural institutions, America's Book Club features lively, thought-provoking conversations with leading authors, policymakers, business innovators, and cultural figures. | ||
| Featured guests include Stacey Schiff at the National Archives, John Grisham at the Library of Congress, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett at the Folger Shakespeare Library, David Grant, also at the Folger Shakespeare Library, Walter Isaacson at the National Archives, and Jose Andres at Catholic University. | ||
| Watch episodes from our new weekly series, America's Book Club, in a marathon the day after Thanksgiving on Friday, starting at 10 a.m. Eastern on C-SPAN. | ||
| Also, head over to C-SPAN.org to get the full schedule. | ||
| C-SPAN is as unbiased as you can get. | ||
| You are so fair. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't know how anybody can say otherwise. | |
| You guys do the most important work for everyone in this country. | ||
| I love C-SPAN because I get to hear all the voices. | ||
| You bring these divergent viewpoints and you present both sides of an issue and you allow people to make up their own minds. | ||
| I absolutely love C-SPAN. | ||
| I love to hear both sides. | ||
| I've watched C-SPAN every morning and it is unbiased. | ||
| And you bring in factual information for the callers to understand where they are in their comments. | ||
| It's probably the only place that we can hear honest opinion of Americans across the country. | ||
| You guys at C-SPAN are doing such a wonderful job of allowing free exchange of ideas without a lot of interruptions. | ||
| Thank you, C-SPAN, for being a light in the dark. | ||
| Sunday night on C-SPAN's Q&A. | ||
| White House trade advisor Peter Navarro went to prison in 2024, convicted of contempt of Congress for defying a subpoena from the January 6th Committee after being found guilty on two counts. | ||
| In his new book, I Went to Prison So You Won't Have To, Peter Navarro lays out the Justice Department's case, his arrest and trial, and what it was like for him behind bars. | ||
| People think you're in a dorm rather than a cell. | ||
| It's like everybody told me there that they'd rather be in a cell because you only have to worry about one other guy. | ||
| You know, there's this thing called the lock, lock in the sock, right? | ||
| You take a padlock, you throw it in a sock, and a lot of rough justice goes on like that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
White House trade advisor and author Peter Navarro, Sunday night at 8 Eastern on C-SPAN's QA. | |
| You can listen to QA wherever you get your podcasts and on the C-SPAN Now app. | ||
| Washington Journal continues. | ||
| We are back and turning our attention in the next hour of the Washington Journal to the issue of affordability in the United States. | ||
| Joining us for the conversation is Brittany Madney, who is the Executive Vice President for Economic Policy at the Economic Policy Innovation Center, and Michael Matowicz, who's the principal economist for the Roosevelt Institute. | ||
| Thank you both for being here. | ||
| I want to begin with a poll that Politico did when they asked people about where they're most concerned when it comes to affordability. | ||
| And it's interesting because groceries ranked number one, 45%, followed by housing at 38%. | ||
| Healthcare came in third, 34%. | ||
| Utility bills, 31%, and then debt repayment, 17%. | ||
| I want to begin with groceries. | ||
| Brittany Manny, I'll turn to you first. | ||
| Both of you talk about this. | ||
| When and how? | ||
| Why did groceries become the number one issue for people when it comes to affordability? | ||
| It's a great question. | ||
| And I think the primary reason we're seeing this situation right now is that women, moms, wives are the primary budgeteers in the American household. | ||
| They're the ones who are responsible for household incomes, household budgets, thinking about what they're spending, putting food on the table. | ||
| They're going to the grocery store weekly. | ||
| They're seeing that the prices are still high. | ||
| And they're very concerned about whether or not they're going to be able to make ends meet beyond their regular needs. | ||
| It's coming into the holiday season right now. | ||
| Groceries spiked during the pandemic. | ||
| The inflationary spending from ARPA and the IRA both contributed to that rather than- Explain that acronym. | ||
| Those acronyms are going to be a lot of fun. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Absolutely. | |
| Absolutely. | ||
| ARPA was the American Rescue Plan Act, and then the IRA was the secondary big pandemic spending bill that was the Inflation Reduction Act. | ||
| Unfortunately, it didn't reduce inflation. | ||
| What we found is that inflation has actually increased during the pandemic and then since then as well. | ||
| A huge part of the problem is this inflationary spending has impacts on sort of day-to-day goods. | ||
| That includes things like groceries, it includes things like gas, it includes utility bills. | ||
| Those are the places that most of the primary household budgeters, women, are focused in seeing their pocketbooks really be squeezed. | ||
| When you're squeezed at the grocery store, that means you have to give up something else, and that's where it hurts. | ||
| Michael Matowitz. | ||
| Brittany is talking about legislation that was passed during the Biden administration as the cause of inflation. | ||
| Has the Trump administration taken action to bring it down? | ||
| No, I mean, I think we saw, like we did see significant inflation coming out of the pandemic. | ||
| We basically saw the Fed get us back to about where we want to be in, I believe, September of 24. | ||
| So we kind of had gotten over the hump there. | ||
| I think we got down to 2.5%, maybe a little bit less, depending on the measure you're using. | ||
| And then since the new year, it's been ticking up. | ||
| Part of that is tariffs. | ||
| Part of that is immigration policy. | ||
| It's nowhere near as bad as it was during the peak of the pandemic reopening stuff. | ||
| But it's a little more entrenched now. | ||
| And we got new data yesterday saying that it's actually going up more in goods than we thought. | ||
| And why is that? | ||
| I mean, on the services side, there's a pretty clear immigration story, right? | ||
| Like you are pushing on the labor supply that is crucial for a lot of industries. | ||
| On the good side, there's clearly a tariffs component. | ||
| There's also, you know, we passed a really large tax cut in this summer. | ||
| We know that high-income families are doing most of the spending in the economy at this point, and high-income families are the ones who got the biggest tax cuts. | ||
| So it's not shocking that some of those dollars are pushing up the price of all kinds of goods. | ||
| So Brittany Manny, would you, how do you respond to that? | ||
| Immigration policies that are when it comes to the food sector, that you don't have the people there for production of the nation's food that's causing food prices to go up. | ||
| Tariffs having the same impact, food prices going up, and then you have the high-income earners are still spending. | ||
| I think Michael brings up a very good point when he said that this is a problem that's entrenched. | ||
| It is entrenched. | ||
| And frankly, that's the crux of the matter. | ||
| The entrenched inflation is because we are looking at a scenario where inflation is the result of spending. | ||
| It's overspending from the federal government that is driving this. | ||
| That is something that we are continuing to deal with. | ||
| Have impacts been made? | ||
| Certainly, but more must be done. | ||
| We're $38 trillion in debt right now. | ||
| Trillion. | ||
| Our interest payments on the national debt alone outpace the GDPs of almost every single economy for every country in the world, except for 16 plus the United States, of course. | ||
| That is unsustainable. | ||
| So the idea that we're entrenched in this, I concur with Michael. | ||
| I just disagree on where the main drivers of that are. | ||
| And it's government spending. | ||
| You think government spending is causing food prices to go up. | ||
| Explain. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Government spending crowds out everything else in the market. | ||
| It's negatively impacting competition. | ||
| It's negatively impacting the ability of individuals to make proper choices with the full scope of the information. | ||
| We're certainly seeing this in health care, and that's a... | ||
| But stick with groceries, because we'll get to health care. | ||
| So what government programs drive up the price of food? | ||
| Yeah, I think that's a good question. | ||
| So when you're looking at the price of food at the grocery store, you have to really think about the entire food chain. | ||
| So that goes back all the way to farmers, for example. | ||
| So you have government spending on the one side. | ||
| You also have the regulatory part of this. | ||
| So if we're looking at food, if we're looking at the price of vegetables, you would need to think about any of the regulatory state that's impacting farmers. | ||
| If they are spending a lot of time and energy and money worried about overly burdensome environmental regulations, then that means that they're going to, those costs are going to be reflected in the goods that they send to the market. | ||
| And then when you're spending too much money on the other side of this on food stamps, for example, for individuals who the program was not originally designed for, you're crowding out the ability of those dollars to be focused on the most vulnerable, but you're also having a negative impact on the sort of free market enterprise in grocery stores. | ||
| So it sounds like you're saying if there were more deregulation by the Trump administration, that could help bring down the price of food. | ||
| Michael Matowitz, what do you think needs to happen to bring down the price of food? | ||
| I mean, I think the deregulation thing is kind of overblown. | ||
| We've been doing a lot of that for basically my adult life, and I'm not that young. | ||
| You know, like every time we have an administration come in, they always say they are going to cut government waste, they are going to do deregulation, and like frankly, if you look at the statistics, we are one of the lightest regulated countries in the world. | ||
| We have done a lot, like we have a very tiny government in terms of employees. | ||
| So I don't think there's like a ton in that. | ||
| I do think, you know, especially when you start looking at the winter, taking off tariffs is like a very obvious avenue to reduce grocery prices. | ||
| You know, if you go look in the produce aisle right now, it is not summer. | ||
| Like you are not getting berries from California, you're getting them from Peru. | ||
| The tariffs on those are going to bite a little more in the winter than they would otherwise. | ||
| And we have actually seen some return to reason with, I think in particular, like coffee prices are starting to come down because we took tariffs off Brazil. | ||
| So I mean, on some level, the part where we have policies that many economists would say are not ideal for keeping costs low gives us some, like it makes it a much easier problem to solve than when you have like a really hard, like, how do we figure this out situation? | ||
| It's like when you're, I guess, the first role of good policies, if you find yourself in a hole, you should just stop digging. | ||
| On election day 2025 in exit polls, voters said affordability, cost of living was the number one issue for them in how they voted. | ||
| That's our conversation here for the second hour of today's Washington Journal. | ||
| We want to get your thoughts on this as well. | ||
| What are you most concerned about when it comes to affordability? | ||
| Democrats dial in at 202-748-8000. | ||
| Republicans 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Independents 202-748-8002. | ||
| You can text as well. | ||
| Join us that way at 202-748-8003. | ||
| Brittany Madney and Michael Matowitz are our guests here this morning. | ||
| Let's go back to that politico poll. | ||
| And the second issue that folks are most concerned about is housing. | ||
| 38%. | ||
| Brittany Madney, what has happened with housing over the last five to ten years that it has become unaffordable? | ||
| Well, I'd say it goes back even further than five to ten years. | ||
| You know, we see this difference between generations and how they view housing. | ||
| It used to be part of the American dream. | ||
| It was certainly part of my parents' American dream. | ||
| My father, in particular, when he came to the United States, was set on having a house, a home, a place to raise his family. | ||
| And now millennials and the next generation, even past millennials, are not seeing housing as a possibility that's on the table. | ||
| So you're seeing more young professionals turn toward longer-term renting. | ||
| There's a series of issues. | ||
| This is a complex concern for a lot of people. | ||
| But what I think is important here is that the housing problems in urban and suburban areas are not necessarily the same housing problems as those in rural communities. | ||
| In rural communities, you're seeing a lack of opportunity. | ||
| You're seeing, therefore, a lack of housing availability because there aren't any structures to inhabit. | ||
| Smaller towns are sort of evaporating. | ||
| That's causing some stress. | ||
| And then in the urban and suburban settings, you're seeing a lack of availability still, but it's not because there are fewer locations. | ||
| It's because people are being driven into city centers to find that opportunity. | ||
| And so they're squeezing the market in a different way. | ||
| Michael Matowitz, what's your take on housing? | ||
| I mean, I agree. | ||
| This is like a long-standing problem. | ||
| We have never really recovered from the Great Recession. | ||
| I think the Wall Street Journal was covering this yesterday. | ||
| Like you can see we are still building fewer houses than we did in 2007. | ||
| The construction labor force never recovered to the same level of employment that we had prior to that. | ||
| And it's not like housing was cheap at that point anyway. | ||
| It is like a very difficult problem to solve because you have a series of local regulations that matter a lot. | ||
| But it is like at one point this was a city's or a suburbs problem. | ||
| And Brittany's totally right that this is like rural housing is now very expensive. | ||
| It has been rising rapidly. | ||
| And this is like just an industry that is not working particularly well. | ||
| We have negative productivity growth in construction, which is like very difficult to get your head around as an economist because productivity just usually goes up. | ||
| As you do things more, you get better at them. | ||
| Somehow that's not true in construction. | ||
| So it is complicated because it's a like there are a lot of things that are clearly not working well and to an extent that I think we are all a little bit surprised by and it's been going on for quite a while. | ||
| I want to show our viewers what New York City Mayor-elect Zorah Mamdani had to say. | ||
| He was on NBC's Meet the Press and this is what he had to say about raising taxes on the wealthy to pay for his housing and child care initiatives. | ||
| Those in issues that it ran on and won on in New York City. | ||
| The governor and I had a productive conversation, and what we both committed to is working together for the affordability agenda. | ||
| And one thing I appreciate of the many about Governor Hochul is that she's been focused not just on affordability, but specifically on universal child care for quite some time. | ||
| And now is the time to bring a partner forward in City Hall. | ||
| And I've said plainly and openly that I believe that these are two tax proposals that make sense: increasing the personal income taxes on New Yorkers making a million dollars or more by just 2%, increasing the top corporate tax rate to that match that of New Jersey. | ||
| And what I've also said is more important than how we fund something, is that we fund something. | ||
| And if there are additional or alternate revenue streams to do so, I will accept them and I will celebrate them because the most important thing is to actually deliver for the New Yorkers who right now can't even conceive of having a family in New York City because of how expensive we've made childcare across the five-part Brittany Manny. | ||
| When he laid out those two tax proposals, corporate tax rate and income tax rate for those making over a million, what's your reaction to those ideas? | ||
| And is there a difference between that and a so-called wealth tax? | ||
| There's not a difference, but my first reaction is: wow, that's great for the state of Florida because so many individuals are going to move both their families and their businesses out of New York City to places that have a more favorable tax environment. | ||
| This is not going to be good for the individuals that Mr. Mamdani is hoping to uplift in New York City. | ||
| I understand that the mayor-elect is planning to do all of these great things in his mind. | ||
| What he doesn't seem to grasp is that more government spending, I believe he said what's not important is how but that we fund things. | ||
| What he doesn't seem to get is that more funding is not the solution. | ||
| And in fact, it is increasingly inflationary. | ||
| More debt, more funding, more taxes are not going to support the economy. | ||
| They're going to completely combust it. | ||
| All right, let's get our viewers involved. | ||
| Sandy in California, Democratic caller, good morning to you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning, Greta. | |
| I have a question for her name is Brittany. | ||
| She keeps talking about all this government spending is causing inflation. | ||
| I agree with that in that we have just borrowed four or five trillion dollars in order to pay for tax cuts for people who don't need them. | ||
| Every problem that the conservatives want to address, every economic policy, has to do with tax cuts. | ||
| Tax cuts are spending, right? | ||
| That's taking revenue from the services that people pay taxes for and giving that money, just shoveling it to people who don't need it. | ||
| All right, Sandy, Sandy, let's get a response. | ||
| Brittany Manny. | ||
| Sandy, thanks for your question. | ||
| I'm really glad that you raised this because it is a misconception that is pretty prevalent in the environment today. | ||
| The tax cuts bill that was just passed is part of a larger package called the One Big Beautiful Bill Act. | ||
| In that, there isn't really a massive tax cut so much as there's a prevention of a tax hike. | ||
| In 2017, Congress passed and the president signed the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. | ||
| That was a tax cut. | ||
| Many of the key provisions of that were set to expire this year. | ||
| The 2025 bill that was just enacted actually prevents the expiration. | ||
| So it's preventing a tax hike. | ||
| It's not the same thing to prevent a tax hike on working Americans. | ||
| And most of the impacts are in the middle income sector. | ||
| That's a huge difference than adding on more tax cuts. | ||
| In terms of your question about reduced revenues being the same as more spending, that's not how it works economically. | ||
| There are dynamic impacts for reducing revenues that mean more people keep more of their money in their pockets and that money can then be contributed back into the economy. | ||
| That's different from increasing federal spending on programs from taxpayer dollars from the Treasury out to the economy where it's a much more manipulative way of engaging with the market. | ||
| Michael Madowitz? | ||
| I don't know that I totally followed that. | ||
| I mean, the idea that spending and tax cuts are not the same thing is like we are talking about money going into the economy. | ||
| We are talking about people spending this money, whether that is from a government spending it directly or giving it to people like me who got big tax cuts this year and then having them spend it. | ||
| Like it is more money going into the economy. | ||
| So I mean I guess like the difference is I don't I don't totally follow that one. | ||
| We'll go to Kevin in Circleville, Ohio, Republican. | ||
| Hi Kevin. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good afternoon. | |
| How are you? | ||
| Kevin, share your thoughts with us on affordability in the United States. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I would like to know as it relates to the GDP, the farmers, the tariffs, I never seem to see a number that says, okay, here's who's making and losing money. | |
| And what I mean by that is the government, obviously the government contributes an income source, but are the farmers losing money or making money? | ||
| Is small business losing money or making money? | ||
| Is the corporations losing money or making money? | ||
| So maybe that gives us a better idea of who's really being impacted. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Michael Madowitz, you want to take that one? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| I mean, I think we've seen, specifically over the last year or so, the economy has sort of really narrowed. | ||
| You've seen job growth has come into a very small slice of the economy. | ||
| Most sectors are not adding much. | ||
| You've seen the stock market go up a lot on the basis of a very few companies that are actually seeing big profits. | ||
| And those are kind of the largest companies. | ||
| I don't have a great sense of like whether farmers are doing radically better or worse than last year. | ||
| I think it depends a lot on the crop and how that's gone with the various tariff negotiations we're still doing there. | ||
| And then small business, we saw a huge expansion in small business under the recovery from the pandemic. | ||
| And that has really petered out at this point. | ||
| We're seeing much less growth for small business. | ||
| On food prices, earlier this week, Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins addressed the prices and administration efforts to lower them. | ||
| Here's what she had to say on Monday. | ||
| Yeah, this administration has been incredibly focused on getting the American dream back into every American's home and goals, et cetera. | ||
| And affordability is a huge piece of that. | ||
| Of course, I'm the agriculture secretary, so food, food production, supporting our farmers and ranchers is a big piece. | ||
| And when you look at under Joe Biden the last four years, we had an increase in inputs, interest rates 73%, fertilizer 36%, labor increase 47%. | ||
| Not surprising that the driver, of course, no new trade deals during those four years, no way to move the food out. | ||
| So when you look at all of that in total, it's no surprise that what we inherited was an absolute economic mess. | ||
| But those numbers are coming down. | ||
|
unidentified
|
There are a few outliers. | |
| And you mentioned Secretary Besson talked about a couple of those yesterday. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We're working on those extremely diligently. | |
| But as we're restructuring the entire economy, as we're bringing down inflation, bringing down fuel, bringing down labor, Americans, we believe, will see real relief very, very soon. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Those numbers are already down, but much more to come. | |
| Brooke Rollins promising lower food prices. | ||
| We're talking about affordability in the United States here this morning. | ||
| Brittany Madney is our guest. | ||
| She's Executive Vice President of Economic at the Economic Policy Innovation Center. | ||
| And we also have Michael Matowitz, who is the principal economist at the Roosevelt Institute. | ||
| We showed you at the top Politico recently did a poll on affordability. | ||
| Back to those numbers, healthcare ranks third, 34%. | ||
| Michael Matowicz, on healthcare, what has happened? | ||
| And is the subsidies for the Affordable Care Act to blame for the rise in health care costs? | ||
| Yeah, I think there's a short-term and a long-term health care problem in the U.S. | ||
| The long-term one is, you know, we have tried really hard to make health care look like a normal market good and it just isn't. | ||
| And so we've kind of artificially constructed a market to make that work. | ||
| It has not done us any favors. | ||
| We pay much more for worse care than other countries do. | ||
| And then in the short term, yeah, I think you are many Americans are seeing really big jumps in their insurance prices this winter or this renewal season. | ||
| And that mostly seems to come down to the cutting of the ACAA subsidy expansions. | ||
| The long term, what drove up long-term health care costs in this country? | ||
| Is it because we have insurance companies as the middlemen? | ||
| What drove the long-term costs? | ||
| I mean, it is a series of middlemen. | ||
| It's insurance companies, it is pharma companies that take the research that we fund through our tax dollars and then commercialize it and earn monopoly profits on patents and drugs. | ||
| There is just like so many layers that we put into the system. | ||
| And we're like one of the only countries in the world that doesn't actually do price caps where the government is saying like, look, we will not spend more than this on these drugs. | ||
| And we're all paying the price. | ||
| Brittany Manny, what do you say is the driving costs long-term, short-term? | ||
| It's a great question because there's a lot of contributing factors here. | ||
| The number one driving cost of the rising prices people are paying for their health care is Obamacare. | ||
| So something Michael said I completely agree with earlier in a previous question. | ||
| He mentioned that corporate profits are up. | ||
| They are up. | ||
| They are particularly up in the health insurance sector. | ||
| Health insurers are making massive profits. | ||
| A big part of that is that their revenues are directly tied to the increased cost that both the government and enrollees pay. | ||
| Patients are paying more, and that means that the insurers are profiting more. | ||
| There are perverse incentives built into the structure of Obamacare. | ||
| There is a structural problem here that is contributing to this. | ||
| For example, there's something called the medical loss ratio that tells insurers that they have to spend 80% of their income effectively on medical reasons rather than overhead. | ||
| Well, their profits are tied to that. | ||
| So what do they do? | ||
| They increase medical rates. | ||
| And that means that patients are paying more for their own medical care costs and needs. | ||
| Because if the rates for medicine go up, whether that's drugs or access to care at the hospital or at your private practice, if that goes up in price, then that means the insurers make more money. | ||
| And this is built into the Affordable Care Act. | ||
| And of course, there's also the subsidies. | ||
| Does that refer to a proposal that sounds like it was enacted into law that was prohibiting these companies from spending such a large percentage on marketing and ads? | ||
| Yeah, there was a piece of that. | ||
| That was sort of the backstory. | ||
| The goal with the proposal was to cap the ability of these companies to spend a lot on that, but it was really more about capping their profits. | ||
| The problem is that the policy wasn't written to cap their profits. | ||
| Their policy was written to tie it to expenses for the patient. | ||
| And that's a huge problem. | ||
| This is also layered on top of the subsidies. | ||
| What we have found at EPIC, my organization, is that as the subsidy payments have increased, including the underlying subsidies as well as what we call the COVID credits, the enhanced PTCs, so has the cost of premiums and so have out-of-pocket costs. | ||
| The headlines in the papers this morning about what the president in the White House is thinking about doing on health care, this is the Washington Times. | ||
| Republicans eye HSAs to channel subsidies directly to consumers. | ||
| Let's listen to President Trump on Air Force One last night, headed to Florida to celebrate Thanksgiving with his family and friends. | ||
| This is what he had to say when he was asked by a reporter about his plan for health care. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mr. President, are you planning to unveil a health care plan anytime soon? | |
| Well, we're looking at different alternatives. | ||
| I mean, I like my plan the best. | ||
| Don't give any money to the insurance companies. | ||
| Give it to the people directly. | ||
| Let them go out and buy their own health care plan. | ||
| And we're looking at that, if that can work. | ||
| We're looking at that. | ||
| That's sort of taken off. | ||
| That's what I like. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Don't give the money to the insurance companies. | |
| They go out. | ||
| They go out and buy their own plan. | ||
| You give the money to the people. | ||
| I like it the best. | ||
| Are you planning to extend those subsidies? | ||
| I'd rather not. | ||
| Somebody said I want to extend them for two years. | ||
| I don't want to extend it for two years. | ||
| I'd rather not extend them at all. | ||
| Will you do it? | ||
| And maybe some kind of an extension may be necessary to get something else done because the Unaffordable Care Act has been a disaster. | ||
| It's a disaster. | ||
| And I said it was when it first got put in. | ||
| Unfortunately, we lost a couple of Republican votes and the Democrats voted for it. | ||
| It's a Democrat plan. | ||
| And the premiums are going up. | ||
| And it's the Democrats' fault. | ||
| But, you know, they are negotiating with me. | ||
| It's very interesting. | ||
| They want to see something happen. | ||
| Who are you talking to? | ||
| I can't tell you who, but we have a lot of Democrats want this plan to happen. | ||
| They would love to see the money go to the people and the people go out and get their own health care. | ||
| And there would be nothing like it. | ||
| President Trump on Tuesday. | ||
| Michael Madowitz, what do you make of this proposal the White House is floating to use HSAs, give the money directly to consumers? | ||
| Yeah, I can see why the politics of it sound good, right? | ||
| You sound like you are taking on the insurance companies and giving people money. | ||
| The challenge here is that HSAs have largely been a giveaway to the wealthy so far. | ||
| And it's not at all clear to me why it would be better to give people money and then have them give it to insurance companies versus regulating the insurance companies through the payment mechanisms and driving costs down. | ||
| I think this is like one of the things that is lost in analyzing Obamacare is, you know, we had a large expansion of coverage and we are all very happy about that. | ||
| But we also saw like the slowest healthcare inflation for the decade following it. | ||
| And that had a lot to do with a lot of the cost controls that were built into it. | ||
| When you hear things like, we just want to send people checks, that doesn't sound like a recipe for bringing down costs. | ||
| Brittany Manny, how do you respond to that? | ||
| How would giving the money directly to consumers incentivize insurance companies to lower the cost of health care? | ||
| It's all about the market. | ||
| Right now, we're looking at a situation where the government is making all the decisions. | ||
| The government's in control. | ||
| I think, and I think the president would agree, that patients should be in control. | ||
| They should be in control of the dollars and they should be in control of their decisions. | ||
| Sending a check directly from the United States Treasury General Fund to health insurance companies is a huge part of the problem. | ||
| Where is the patient in that conversation? | ||
| They're completely missing. | ||
| They just get stuck with the bill at the end of the day. | ||
| Instead, give the money to the patient, allow the patient control and decision-making power over their own interests. | ||
| They can decide what they want to do with the money. | ||
| An HSA should be an option for a lot more Americans. | ||
| They should be able to make decisions with their own dollars about where they want to use them. | ||
| I think a huge question here is what the insurance companies themselves are saying. | ||
| And my organization has looked into the statements and the tax filings from the insurance companies. | ||
| And what we have found is in their reporting to their own investors, they note that their internal revenues and profits are directly tied to the government-directed subsidies. | ||
| If those subsidies go away, then profits start falling. | ||
| That's why they're fighting for them. | ||
| Would consumers have enough competition to choose from to shop around with this check that they would get for health care? | ||
| That's exactly why the HSA option is the first of many. | ||
| You also need to open up the market for other types of products. | ||
| So you may want to expand options like catastrophic care. | ||
| You may want to expand options like ICHRAs, being able to... | ||
| You have to explain that. | ||
| Oh, I'm so sorry. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Washington speak. | ||
| Yes, I apologize. | ||
| I'll roll back my nerd, my health and budget nerdisms. | ||
| Right now, you basically only have one option if you are on the individual market. | ||
| You have to go into Obamacare. | ||
| You have to take a certain set of plans and pick from those. | ||
| And every one of those plans offers the same basic benefits. | ||
| There are levels of these. | ||
| You can choose to pay more in premiums or more in deductible, but the benefits are about the same. | ||
| What I'm saying is that as conservatives are proposing, it makes more sense to open up that market so that you can have plans that offer different types of benefits, not just different levels of coverage. | ||
| So you can perhaps be a 25-year-old, otherwise healthy single man who doesn't want a plan that covers everything under the sun. | ||
| You just want something that's there for a catastrophe. | ||
| These are called catastrophic plans. | ||
| Maybe you only want to pay for coverage if you end up in the worst case scenario, a major accident. | ||
| Maybe you're not planning on getting regular treatments or something like that. | ||
| And that's a place where the people should be able to make their own decision. | ||
| It's not about the government saying what's best for you and what benefits you should be forced to have. | ||
| We will go to Bruce in Indiana, Independent. | ||
| Thanks for hanging on the line, Bruce. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| Thanks for taking my call. | ||
| Michael made a statement that just kind of blew my mind a little bit. | ||
| He's supposed to be an economist, correct? | ||
| Bruce, can you tell us what the comment was? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, he said he didn't understand agriculture. | |
| If he's going to be an economist and give advice to executives or big companies, how can not he understand how agriculture's work both in the past and now? | ||
| And Bruce, Bruce, what are your thoughts on agriculture? | ||
| Did you have a comment? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Nobody seems to talk about the fact that in agriculture, there's basically four, maybe five grain companies that control 90% of the grain that goes in from the fields that runs to export. | ||
| Okay, we'll take that. | ||
| Michael Matowitz. | ||
| Yeah, I think you raise a really good point. | ||
| I mean, I would love to know more about agriculture. | ||
| It's a really complicated topic. | ||
| It is, in fact, one of the, like the USDA has some of the, sorry, the Department of Agriculture has some of the best economists around because it is such a complicated issue. | ||
| But the issue that you raise about concentration among the middlemen in the ag sector is like widely understood to be a large problem. | ||
| Grocery prices are high right now. | ||
| They are not high because your grocery store is making really high profit margins. | ||
| Grocery stores are quite low profit margin businesses. | ||
| It's the sort of middleware in the sector where you have like you brought grain where there's a small number of companies. | ||
| Meat packing is another industry that's heavily concentrated. | ||
| And, you know, you can imagine having a lot more aggressive enforcement of competition at that level could really bring prices down. | ||
| I just haven't heard a lot going in that direction lately. | ||
| Russell, San Jose, Democratic caller. | ||
| Hi, Russell. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, how are you this morning? | |
| And thank you for taking my call. | ||
| I just wanted to talk about immigration. | ||
| First of all, the law is the law, it's the law. | ||
| If I want a red light, I'm going to get a ticket. | ||
| So if you come here illegally, you have broke the law. | ||
| I don't understand why America doesn't wake up and realize that if we have people hiring people here illegally, they should be arrested. | ||
| Number one, number two, I live in the most expensive place in the country, San Jose, California. | ||
| I was raised with six brothers and no father. | ||
| I work my butt off and pay for my house, okay? | ||
| I don't ask anything from anybody. | ||
| I do not want to pay extra taxes for anybody except for myself and my family. | ||
| So I don't understand why everybody's out there talking about, oh, we got sanctuary cities. | ||
| Well, you are breaking the law that the federal government says you should not be doing that. | ||
| All right, Russell, Brittany Mandy, tie this back to our conversation about affordability. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| This goes back to a conversation we had earlier on the One Big Beautiful Bill Act. | ||
| One of the provisions of the One Big Beautiful Bill Act was to reduce the availability, stop the availability, in fact, entirely of benefits flowing out of Medicaid to illegal immigrants. | ||
| That is a significant concern for a lot of Americans. | ||
| Our caller Russell's from the state of California in California on the California Medicaid website, there was actually a set of steps to follow for illegal immigrants for how they could apply for and receive Medicaid benefits. | ||
| That's a significant expenditure from the federal government. | ||
| It's therefore inflationary. | ||
| And as we have talked about earlier, any additional spending beyond our means, and we're certainly far beyond our means in terms of the revenues our country brings in, is going to have a negative impact on working families. | ||
| We're talking about affordability in the United States. | ||
| We want to hear from all of you. | ||
| Join us for this conversation this morning. | ||
| Democrats 202-748-8000. | ||
| Republicans 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Independents 202-748-8002. | ||
| You can also text if you'd like at 202-748-8003. | ||
| Carol in Delaware, Republican. | ||
| Hi, Carol. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning. | |
| Thank you for taking my call. | ||
| I just want to say, you know, the overflow and the influx of foreign nationals in this country, you know, I blame the government for allowing the illegal aliens to come and buy so much property in America. | ||
| And, you know, they buy this property and they do not share with Americans. | ||
| And my main concern is housing for Americans. | ||
| You know, if you rid the illegals in this country, that would solve the problem. | ||
| Okay, Carol, let's take that point. | ||
| Michael Matowitz. | ||
| Yeah, I think there's a lot of intuitive appeal to that argument that we are going to somehow create some huge glut of housing by kicking immigrants out of the country. | ||
| It's really not in the data. | ||
| And I think, you know, when you start thinking about ways to bring down the cost of housing, you do need to raise the supply. | ||
| And construction is a hugely immigrant-heavy industry. | ||
| It is also a large employer of undocumented immigrants who are in the country illegally, but usually are paying taxes and keeping Social Security solvent. | ||
| So I think that there are probably better ways to bring down the cost of housing than to focus on getting immigrants out of houses. | ||
| We are talking about affordability this morning. | ||
| Front page of the New York Times this morning, a story about our U.S. economy, multiple signs of deep risks in the market. | ||
| From the New York Times reporting, it's not simply that hundreds of billions of dollars flooding into artificial intelligence investments might turn out to be a bubble, or that the use of cryptocurrencies in mainstream banking is spreading even as their values have, it goes on to say, even as their values have, go to the next screen. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Difficulty with that. | ||
| Plunged after soaring to record highs, or the billion-dollar bankruptcies related to a mad rush of lending by shadow banks and regular banks too. | ||
| It is also the titanic levels of debt that the United States and other governments have built up. | ||
| President Trump's erratic policy zigzags and the possibility that the cornerstone of the administration's economic agenda, tariffs, could be ruled unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court. | ||
| This is the New York Times. | ||
| And the paragraph ends, it's everything, everywhere, all at once. | ||
| Michael Matowicz, I want to weave in this from Ricky. | ||
| To me, the most threatening economic problem facing the nation is the $38 plus trillion dollar federal debt that needs to be addressed. | ||
| The only practical means is via a significant increase in GDP. | ||
| So Michael Medowitz, the New York Times front page reporting and our viewer, let's talk about the debt and what that is doing to our economy and affordability. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, I think it is a big problem. | ||
| I think there was a time not that long ago where we had really low interest rates and you could say like carrying a high debt load was actually not a big deal economically. | ||
| We're not there right now. | ||
| Like the debt is a big problem. | ||
| The debt is very much a tax cuts problem. | ||
| We had a balanced budget, in fact a surplus in the year 2000. | ||
| Since then we have had, I believe, seven different tax cuts. | ||
| All of them have gone pretty heavily towards the wealthy. | ||
| And we have a revenue problem. | ||
| I think we hear a lot about a spending problem, but you hear very little about the revenue problem. | ||
| I think if we, you know, raising GDP is useful in terms of it can lower the debt to GDP ratio, which makes paying your debts more affordable over time. | ||
| But eventually, we need to figure out some way to start raising more revenue. | ||
| Brittany Manny, your reaction to the New York Times. | ||
| We certainly don't have a revenues problem. | ||
| We have a spending problem. | ||
| I think this is just a place where we fundamentally disagree. | ||
| The government is spending hundreds of billions of dollars a year on massive programs that are pushing out benefits to those that people would be shocked to find are receiving these benefits the programs weren't designed for. | ||
| We talked a little bit about Medicaid going out earlier to illegal immigrants. | ||
| One of the biggest problems in Medicaid, for example, is that an individual who is a person that is truly vulnerable, who the program was designed for, let's say a working single mom who's pregnant and has two children. | ||
| This is a very real scenario. | ||
| That woman is who Medicaid was designed to help and support. | ||
| She receives less federal dollars for Medicaid than a working age man who is an able-bodied 38-year-old who is sitting on his couch with no dependents. | ||
| That man, under the current structure, receives more Medicaid dollars than the woman the program was designed for. | ||
| The purpose of these programs is truly to help the most vulnerable. | ||
| And instead, it's been turned on the TED. | ||
| And the impact there is significant. | ||
| It's blowing up our debt. | ||
| It's increasing the deficit to an astronomical degree. | ||
| And for what? | ||
| For things that are not the Americans' priorities. | ||
| So when we say that we have a spending problem, not a revenues problem, that's what we're talking about. | ||
| Related to the New York Times article in the political poll when they asked about top affordability concerns, coming in fourth was utility bills at 31%. | ||
| That can be related, tied back to the artificial intelligence investment. | ||
| And then 17% said it was debt repayments. | ||
| Brittany Manny, utility bills, Michael Madowitz, utility bills feels like a sleeper issue. | ||
| What is happening here? | ||
| And what about the regulation of utility companies by local governments? | ||
| This is an important point, especially as we move into the winter. | ||
| Utility bills go up during the winter. | ||
| You end up having more heating costs. | ||
| Energy is more expensive. | ||
| The grid is slammed more. | ||
| People are putting up Christmas lights. | ||
| We just did that on our house this week. | ||
| As that happens, you have to start considering, okay, what are the impacts not just on the demand, but also on the supply side when it comes to utilities. | ||
| Right now, this is another question of government over-regulation, as well as subsidies into the market that are driving up costs. | ||
| There are several telecom subsidies in particular that have an inflationary impact on utilities as a whole. | ||
| What we're seeing is that broadband is increasing in price, and that's directly tied, again, to overspending by the government. | ||
| Subsidies don't increase the availability. | ||
| What they do is increase costs because the companies that are providing these goods are fully aware that there is a guaranteed amount of money coming from the government. | ||
| When they have a government guarantee for a certain amount of money, it's not that they suddenly say, okay, great, that's going to offset what our consumers pay. | ||
| It's that they say, great, the consumers are still going to pay the same amount and we get this government bonus on top of it. | ||
| That has to stop. | ||
| Michael Matowitz? | ||
| Yeah, I mean, I think you're right that this is becoming a really big issue. | ||
| Some of this is definitely related to building out more power for AI. | ||
| We have a real problem here in the sense that when these companies are putting a demand on the electricity system, that gets folded into everyone's bill. | ||
| And again, this is a sector that just isn't as competitive as it could or should be. | ||
| The other issue that we have here is we are also paying more for our generation fuels. | ||
| So up until very recently, we had much cheaper natural gas that fires most of our power plants than the rest of the world does. | ||
| We have, since becoming an oil exporting country, also started exporting a bunch of natural gas. | ||
| That's pushed up the price of gas that Americans are paying, and it all goes back into your power bills. | ||
| So, I mean, it's, there are things that are complicated about this market, but there are also things that are very simple that clearly are driving up costs right now. | ||
| Susanna's next in Elizabethtown, New York, Democratic Color. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning. | |
| Can you hear me? | ||
| Morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Thanks for taking my call. | ||
| There's been so much that's been said. | ||
| And so I have, I'm going to start with the ACA first. | ||
| I'm one of these middle-class people who benefits greatly from the ACA. | ||
| I am a nurse by trade and I'm educated and have been in the field for an extended period of time. | ||
| But given the circumstances, the amount that I would pay through my employer is a lot more expensive than what I get through the ACA. | ||
| And I find it really helpful that I can call somebody in the marketplace and we can talk about options that are available. | ||
| So my one concern is that if we just hand money out to the people, like for me, for instance, if I'd had a $2,000 check, and not to say that I'm not responsible with my money, I probably could be a little bit more responsible, but I would take that money and put it towards my electric bill, for example. | ||
| So that's a concern of mine. | ||
| And then also, so I was sort of maybe wondering if there was a way to make it so there was some sort of system where the money that was given to us could automatically go to health care. | ||
| And then also, I do want to say that I... | ||
| Well, Susanna, I want to pick up on that point, because if that money went into health savings acts, then it could only be used for health care costs. | ||
| Otherwise, you pay a tax penalty. | ||
| That's absolutely right. | ||
| That's how a health savings account works. | ||
| And first of all, I'd like to say thank you for being a nurse. | ||
| I'm so indebted to so many nurses that have been there for me over the last couple of years. | ||
| So I just want to say thank you. | ||
| I recognize that it's a tough job to have in general, and especially these days. | ||
| Your point about making sure that you have a way to make informed decisions is so important. | ||
| There's a bill that Senator Rick Scott has just introduced that includes this transition to HSAs as an option so individuals could take the money into a health savings account that would only be available for health needs. | ||
| His bill also maintains healthcare.gov. | ||
| Healthcare.gov was set up by Obamacare. | ||
| I will say it's one of the best things that came out of the system simply because at the time we were moving into a new digital age. | ||
| Everything is online now. | ||
| It is much more practical and functional for people to be able to shop for insurance online than in an era gone by where you had to make individual calls to individual companies. | ||
| We're just in a digital era now. | ||
| And so you should be able to get the information you need at your fingertips. | ||
| The Scott bill would actually preserve healthcare.gov while also moving funds into an HSA instead of giving the dollars directly to the insurance company. | ||
| We'll go to Mark, Wilmington, North Carolina, Independent. | ||
| Hi, Mark. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| My big thing, well, number one, I think a lot of what is going on here is a big shift in the wealth from the middle class and the poor to the very wealthy. | ||
| That's, I mean, that just is a blanket. | ||
| Like when you look at what's going on with this administration, that's quite obvious. | ||
| But getting to the Affordable Care Act, and as far as its affordability, it was a very complicated bill that went through Congress. | ||
| It had to be reviewed by the CBO multiple times. | ||
| There's so many different facets of it that, you know, when I hear Brittany talk, she basically says the Affordable Care Act costs a lot of money. | ||
| Well, I'll give you a little example. | ||
| My wife is on the Affordable Care Act. | ||
| I'm retired. | ||
| Last year we paid for her health care premiums. | ||
| It was $500 a month. | ||
| This year, according to the new calculations, we over $2,000 a month. | ||
| Health savings accounts are not going to give us $24,000 to pay for affordable health care. | ||
| Not only that, the problem that I see here is that you can say that the insurance companies, you know, this Affordable Care Act is driving health care costs up and everything, and I understand that. | ||
| But to suggest a health care savings account is going to fix this problem does not make any sense. | ||
| How can you say one little provision to put money into health care savings accounts is going to fix a bill that was so complicated, it addressed not only people getting like money or exemptions for pre-existing conditions, but it also did a multitude of screenings like grasp exams. | ||
| Okay, Mark, we're following you. | ||
| I'm going to have Brittany Mandy respond. | ||
| I absolutely agree with you. | ||
| Health savings accounts on their own are certainly not going to fix the systemic problems caused by the Affordable Care Act. | ||
| I don't want you to come away with the impression that I think this one change is going to fix the entire structure. | ||
| I'm simply proposing that an HSA adjustment helps ease the pain of the subsidies themselves that were inflationary. | ||
| But it's not just that they were inflationary. | ||
| You mentioned that your premiums are supposedly going up $500 to a couple of thousand dollars. | ||
| It's not so much that your premiums are increasing. | ||
| It's that what you're being told is your share of the premiums is increasing. | ||
| The premiums are increasing slightly, but the difference is that the subsidies and in particular the COVID-era credit subsidies are going away. | ||
| Those were add-ons to the original subsidies. | ||
| It's more that the wool is being taken off of your eyes. | ||
| So now you're seeing the true cost of the premiums. | ||
| What I think is that Americans need to be able to see the actual cost of their premiums without the government covering part of that cost so you can make a better informed decision about whether or not the plan is worth the value to you so that you can choose if that's good or not. | ||
| And then going back to a conversation that we had earlier today, there should be a lot more options for you in the market. | ||
| The way Obamacare was set up, it boxed out a lot of the options. | ||
| Perhaps you would prefer a plan that covers things like mammograms and other needs that you mentioned your wife would prefer to have covered. | ||
| That's great, but you shouldn't only have one avenue to get that coverage. | ||
| You should really have lots of options. | ||
| The important, important piece of this is that your wife deserves care, not just coverage. | ||
| There's a huge difference between being able to access care and having coverage on paper that's far too expensive because let's not forget it's not just your premiums, you also have out-of-pocket costs, deductibles, co-pays, et cetera. | ||
| And those are also part of the conversation that we need to bring in. | ||
| Kathy's in Windermere, Florida, Republican. | ||
| Morning, Kathy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning, and happy Thanksgiving. | |
| Same to you, Kathy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Now, this is for both Miss Brittany and Mr. Michael to respond if they like. | |
| Okay. | ||
| I'm going to try and talk in layman's terms as much as possible. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| First of all, we're Americans, first-class Americans, we are the canary in the coal mine. | ||
| We have the resources for everything across the entire prospectus, okay? | ||
| Especially with the quantum, the AI, the largest sectors that you have, we have in place here, the Vidian or so forth. | ||
| That said, if what President Trump just said on the plane about giving back to the American people, if by chance we had did this in 2016, possibly Louis Giana would be home with his family enjoying Thanksgiving. | ||
| Brian Thomas would be alive. | ||
| We really need to focus on our agricultural system that helps improve the food. | ||
| When I go to Whole Foods, for an example, or Walmart, and I look for bananas, I can't find any American bananas with my local farmers, for an example. | ||
| Since Trump's been in office, we've been able to get our local farmers back on the floor front. | ||
| All right, Kathy, I have to leave it there. | ||
| Final thoughts here by Michael Matowitz and Brittany Medney. | ||
| Go ahead, Michael. | ||
| I think we are, you know, we're at the beginning of what's going to be a long season of, I fear, like dealing with affordability issues. | ||
| This is, you know, we went through a long period of having very low inflation in America, and that was fabulous. | ||
| That said, like, there were other problems in the economy. | ||
| I think when we talk about affordability, we also need to be talking about good jobs and good wages at the same time as we're talking about prices. | ||
| But I do think that we definitely need to hold our leaders accountable and make sure that we are making an economy that drives costs down, has actual competition, gives people real options. | ||
| And I think that's going to be a healthy debate. | ||
| Brittany Manney. | ||
| Affordability is a conversation that's here to stay for quite a while. | ||
| And I hate to say that, but we're $38 trillion in debt. | ||
| So the affordability question isn't going away anytime soon. | ||
| What we'll continue to do at EPIC is make sure that we are raising issues so that policymakers can make good decisions about how to stop spending. | ||
| We're seeing consistently that government interference is making the problem worse and we only have a few years to stay off a fiscal crisis. | ||
| Brittany Manney is the executive vice president at the Economic Policy Innovation Center. | ||
| That's epic. | ||
| And you can go to epicforamerica.org to learn more about the reports that Brittany was citing here this morning. | ||
| Michael Madowitz is a principal economist at Roosevelt Institute and you can go to rooseveltinstitute.org to learn more about that organization as well. | ||
| Thank you both for the conversation. | ||
| Appreciate it. | ||
| Coming up on the Washington Journal, a conversation with deadline political editor Ted Johnson about the FCC flexing its regulatory muscle in the Trump administration. | ||
| But first, when we come back from this break, we will be in open forum. | ||
| Any public policy or political issue that's on your mind, there are the lines. | ||
| Start dialing in. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
|
unidentified
|
On the day after Thanksgiving, on Friday, C-SPAN will present a marathon lineup of episodes from our new weekly series, America's Book Club, hosted by acclaimed author and civic leader David Rubenstein from 10 a.m. to 7 p.m. Eastern. | |
| Filmed at some of the nation's most iconic libraries and cultural institutions, America's Book Club features lively, thought-provoking conversations with leading authors, policymakers, business innovators, and cultural figures. | ||
| Featured guests include Stacey Schiff at the National Archives, John Grisham at the Library of Congress, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett at the Folger Shakespeare Library, David Grant, also at the Folger Shakespeare Library, Walter Isaacson at the National Archives, and Jose Andres at Catholic University. | ||
| Watch episodes from our new weekly series, America's Book Club, in a marathon the day after Thanksgiving on Friday, starting at 10 a.m. Eastern on C-SPAN. | ||
| Also, head over to C-SPAN.org to get the full schedule. | ||
| Friday on C-SPAN's C-SPIRE. | ||
| At a time when finding common ground matters most in Washington, host Dasha Byrne sits down with Cornel West, Union Theological Seminary professor, and Robert George, Princeton University professor. | ||
| for a civil dialogue on rising political polarization in the U.S. and top issues facing the country. | ||
| Bridging the divide in American politics. | ||
| Watch Ceasefire Friday at 7 p.m. and 10 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN. | ||
| Get C-SPAN wherever you are with C-SPAN Now, our free mobile video app that puts you at the center of democracy, live and on demand. | ||
| Keep up with the day's biggest events with live streams of floor proceedings and hearings from the U.S. Congress, White House events, the courts, campaigns, and more from the world of politics, all at your fingertips. | ||
| Catch the latest episodes of Washington Journal. | ||
| Find scheduling information for C-SPAN's TV and radio networks, plus a variety of compelling podcasts. | ||
| The C-SPAN Now app is available at the Apple Store and Google Play. | ||
| Download it for free today. | ||
| C-SPAN, Democracy Unfiltered. | ||
| We bring you into the chamber, onto the Senate floor, inside the hearing room, up to the mic, and to the desk in the Oval Office. | ||
| C-SPAN takes you where decisions are made. | ||
| No spin, no commentary, no agenda. | ||
| C-SPAN is your unfiltered connection to American democracy. | ||
| Advance the mission. | ||
| Donate today at c-SPAN.org forward slash donate. | ||
| Together, we keep democracy in view. | ||
| C-SPANSHOP.org is C-SPAN's online store. | ||
| Browse through our latest collection of C-SPAN products, apparel, books, home decor, and accessories. | ||
| There's something for every C-SPAN fan, and every purchase helps support our non-profit operations. | ||
| Shop now or anytime at c-span shop.org. | ||
| Washington Journal continues. | ||
| And we are back this morning on the Washington Journal in open forum. | ||
| Any public policy or political issue we want to hear from you for the next 30 minutes or so. | ||
| Harold's in Melbourne, Florida, Democratic Caller. | ||
| Harold, what's on your mind? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, good morning, C-SPAN. | |
| And obviously, we've got a major issue with health care, which we've had the problem for, what, since the 40s or 50s. | ||
| Insurance companies, our insurance tied to what job we have. | ||
| And turns out we have an existing system that is more efficient and doesn't use the insurance companies as a means of providing health care to our most important citizens, and that's the VA system. | ||
| And what I'd like to propose is that we allow the VA system to compete with private health care, that you slowly open up the VA to expand its facilities to allow care for non-VA citizens of the United States. | ||
| And basically, they would pay a small fee for every visit that they do to the VA. | ||
| I mean, the veterans still get the free, but this would be a much cheaper fee to go in. | ||
| It's reasonable that most Americans could afford. | ||
| Now, they don't have to go to the VA. | ||
| They can still go to their private health care doctor if they wish to. | ||
| And over time, I think that we'll find that the VA has already been proven to be a much more efficient system than the private sector. | ||
| That 29% of the administrative and clerical cost of personnel are in the private sector compared to only 22% in the VA. | ||
| And what we could also do is we have a huge doctor shortage throughout the United States. | ||
| And this has been purposely created because there aren't enough residency programs for the number of graduates of medical school. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| We've actually yep, Harold there in Melbourne, Florida with his idea of how to address the rising cost of health care. | ||
| You can talk about health care. | ||
| You can talk about affordability in the United States and other public policy issues. | ||
| Dee in Hamilton, Ohio, Republican. | ||
| Dee, good morning to you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| The reason I'm calling how can Medicare or any other health system survive with the fraud going on, like in Minnesota, they've been telling it for two or three days on the news. | ||
| The fraud in Medicare and the food for children are billions of dollars in Minnesota. | ||
| All right, Dee, Republican, in Ohio. | ||
| Rick in Newburgh, Oregon, Independent. | ||
| Rick, good morning. | ||
| What's on your mind? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, I'd just like to call and support the man from Florida who said that people should be allowed to, if they're a veteran, or even if they're not, sign on to the VA system or as a second option, sign on to the Medicare system. | |
| Everybody knows that the overhead on those two systems is significantly less than the private insurance sector, and that the ACA Obamacare was just an intermediary step to get as many people covered as possible, and it still left out 12 to 14 million people. | ||
| That was not a solution. | ||
| They still gave insurance companies all the say on raising costs when they wanted to. | ||
| So it's pretty obvious that every other country that's moved away from private insurance companies and the woman who was supporting private insurance companies was just parroting the line before the Obamacare debate. | ||
| She wants to go back to that system where 66 million people were uninsured or underinsured with really bad insurance. | ||
| Sure, if you're 25 years old, you don't really need insurance today. | ||
| You'd rather pay your electric bill. | ||
| But if they don't pay in to something, all the rest of us suffer huge health care costs. | ||
| It should not be in the private market anymore. | ||
| We need VA and Medicare for all. | ||
| Okay, Rick's thoughts there. | ||
| Newburgh, Oregon, and Independent. | ||
| Front pages of the national newspapers this morning, Wall Street Journal with the headline, AI trade splinters. | ||
| As Google takes on NVIDIA, as Alphabet rises and the chip giant falls, the Dow gains more than 600 points. | ||
| Front page of the Wall Street Journal this morning with that headline. | ||
| There is also the front page of the Washington Post this morning. | ||
| DC's Bowser won't seek a fourth term, tease up a competitive 2026 mayoral race, and decision. | ||
| The decision came as the city faces major challenges ahead. | ||
| We'll hear from the mayor in a video message that she released later on here on the Washington Journal. | ||
| And then there is also this from the New York Times, as we read in our last hour, multiple signs of deep risks in the market, a moment of volatility for global economies. | ||
| And as we read, it's related to AI, as well as the nation's debts and deficits and other areas of the economy. | ||
| Front page of the New York Times, if you're interested in that headline. | ||
| And then there's also this from the Washington Times front page. | ||
| Hearings will expose Biden hunt of Trump. | ||
| The Senate likely will hold Watergate-style hearings to get to the bottom of the Biden administration's pursuit of President Trump and other Republicans stemming from the aftermath of the 2020 presidential election. | ||
| Senator Eric Schmidt told the Washington Times, the Missouri Republicans said special counsel Jack Smith tried to weaponize the federal justice system to place Mr. Trump behind bars before the 2024 election. | ||
| He said Mr. Smith will eventually be called as a witness in the hearings. | ||
| Front page of the Washington Times with a preview of possible Watergate-style hearings to come from the Republican-controlled Senate. | ||
| Juanita in Cincinnati, Ohio, Democratic caller. | ||
| Hi, Juanita. | ||
| We're an open forum. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Hi, how are you doing? | ||
| Well, I have two comments to make. | ||
| The first one was I sent a text to you guys. | ||
| I guess you didn't get a chance to get it to remind the young lady, Brittany, that Medicaid regulations are determined by the state, not by central government. | ||
| The southern states insisted upon that in 1965. | ||
| I was around when Medicare was introduced and Medicaid being done simultaneously. | ||
| The southern states in particular wanted the say states' rights of determining the eligibility for their residents, and that's how it's determined now. | ||
| So that puts a hole in her argument. | ||
| The second thing I want to say is we have economic refugees in our country right now. | ||
| I'm temporarily in a nursing home getting physical therapy, and I'll be leaving next week. | ||
| Most of the girls who are AIDS are from southern states, like Louisiana, Mississippi, where they're still paying $7.25 an hour. | ||
| Now, if they can't live on $7.25 an hour in the states they're coming from, how heck are they going to be able to afford anything? | ||
| Okay, Juanita Clay and Hernando, Mississippi, a Republican. | ||
| We're listening to you, Clay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, good morning. | |
| I'd like to say some things about the affordability across the country. | ||
| It's different, really, depending on where you live at. | ||
| And some people's expectations are sort of unrealistic. | ||
| If you live in a big city, it's really a lot of competition in a big city for real estate and jobs and things like that. | ||
| And you couldn't really have a car. | ||
| So a lot of people are riding buses. | ||
| And things like that are sort of like the affordability expectations that people have. | ||
| And it's sort of unrealistic to, you know, be unsatisfied with those kind of things. | ||
| And we're spending a lot of things to support all of the open border policies that we've experienced over the last four years that have really skyrocketed the cost of where our tax dollars are spent. | ||
| And we actually are living in a condition for our health care that is in a situation that was caused by the Affordable Health Care Act. | ||
| It doesn't really have anything to do with the present administration. | ||
| And I believe that our politicians should come together and try to solve these issues instead of spending time politically trying to discredit the current administrations from being successful. | ||
| A lot of part of what we see is misspent energy from politicians that could be solving some problems instead of pointing to things like Epstein files and things like that. | ||
| And a lot of our costs have been due to the petroleum that was halted during the Obama, the former administrations. | ||
| And those things affect fertilizer, which causes the cost of fertilizer and things like that, where the people couldn't actually keep the cattle herds and they had to diminish them. | ||
| That's the price of beef going up. | ||
| And there are so many issues like affordable housing. | ||
| Some of the areas where we used to live when we got our first homes have actually turned into Hispanic neighborhoods because they're actually the ones that are actually taking the job, the houses where people could start their first homes. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Clay with his thoughts. | ||
| Clay in Mississippi, a Republican. | ||
| More of your calls coming up. | ||
| There are the lines on your screen. | ||
| We're in open forum. | ||
| I want to show you the turkey pardoning at the White House in annual tradition. | ||
| This is what President Trump had to say about last year's turkeys as well as pardoning this year's. | ||
| In a few moments, I will grant a full, absolute, and unconditional presidential pardon to two handsome Thanksgiving turkeys, and this is their lucky day. | ||
| This is a lucky day for them. | ||
| But before going any further, I want to make an important announcement because you remember last year after a thorough and very rigorous investigation by Pam Bondi and all of the people at the Department of Justice, the FBI, the CIA, the White House Counsel's Office, and the Department of Everything. | ||
| We have a Department of Everything. | ||
| You know what that is? | ||
| I think that's called the White House. | ||
| Into a terrible situation caused by a man named Sleepy Joe Biden. | ||
| He used an auto pen last year for the turkeys pardon. | ||
| So I have the official duty to determine, and I have determined that last year's turkey pardons are totally invalid, as are the pardons of about every other person that was pardoned other than where's Hunter. | ||
| No, Hunter's was good. | ||
| That was the one pardon, Pam, that was good, right? | ||
| The rest of them are all invalid. | ||
| I don't know what the hell you're going to do about that, but that's now we're going to take a little of the joke in. | ||
| That is a mess. | ||
| But they're hereby null and void. | ||
| The turkeys known as Peach and Blossom last year have been located and they were on their way to be processed. | ||
| In other words, to be killed. | ||
| But I have stopped that journey and I am officially pardoning them. | ||
| And they will not be served for Thanksgiving dinner. | ||
| We saved them in the nick of time. | ||
| This one has plenty of time, but they were saved in the nick of time. | ||
| President Trump at the turkey pardoning yesterday, he and the First Lady participated in the annual event that takes place around this time every year. | ||
| As we said, President Trump and the First Lady and their family later on in the day yesterday headed off to Florida to celebrate Thanksgiving there. | ||
| We are in open forum here this morning until the bottom of the hour, sharing headlines and getting your take on any public policy or political issue. | ||
| From the Washington Post this morning, after Comey and James case's toss, next steps are unclear. | ||
| New York Attorney General Letitia James and former FBI Director James Comey charges against the two Trump foes were tossed by the same judge. | ||
| Bill in Atlanta and Independent, Bill, good morning to you. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| I'm probably going to oversimplify this health care debate, but as I understand it, almost 100 million Americans currently receive taxpayer-funded or subsidized health insurance as it is. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't understand why the other two-thirds of the country are subject to a risk pool which is driven by profit. | |
| To me, the entire nation should share in the risks, risk of its population's health, consequently reducing the premium for every American. | ||
| I don't know what is so difficult about this to understand for people because a national health insurance program would not have to budget for advertising. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You know, commoditizing health care, commoditizing education, commoditizing the things that create strong democracies is ridiculous. | |
| And I don't understand why people don't understand that we're all chained to this country and all of us citizens are required to pull. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Victoria, Connecticut, Democratic caller. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, I agree with that last caller. | |
| I just wanted to say that the points that Brittany made, I think, are really important. | ||
| You know, she really validates to me why we need universal health care, or at least an option. | ||
| I think the citizens should be offered to go on a government plan, like a Medicare plan, or if they choose to, they can go on an insurance plan, something that, you know, the insurance companies determine the prices. | ||
| I think that would, you know, I think it just validates Medicare for all because the insurance companies are not regulated. | ||
| A lot of the things she said were very poignant and things I didn't realize about the Affordable Care Act. | ||
| And I think those things have to be changed. | ||
| But I think the answer is for people to be offered Medicare for all, and then that would eliminate a lot of problems. | ||
| And then we'll have a choice. | ||
| Everyone will have a choice, we'll say. | ||
| All right, Victoria in Connecticut, Democratic caller with her thoughts on health care. | ||
| Bill, St. Joseph, Michigan, Republican. | ||
| Bill, what do you want to talk about? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm looking at the situation with illegal immigration and the focus on all the undocumented people that are being inadvertently taken in along with the criminals. | |
| Tom Holman has repeatedly stated that if the mayors and the governors of the various cities would arrest the violent criminals and put them in jail, he and ICE would be much more amenable to just going to the prisons in a controlled situation, pulling the people out and deporting them. | ||
| But because they release them back into the general population, these guys are in with other illegals that they're living with. | ||
| And of course, that's going to constitute an issue where they're going to get more than just the criminals that they want. | ||
| Jeff in Norfolk, Virginia, Independent. | ||
| Hi, Jeff. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, how are you doing? | |
| Morning. | ||
| I got a comment with all this stuff going on. | ||
| You know, ma'am, okay, I'm a Democrat, right? | ||
| Now, when I saw Trump working with the mayor of New York, I was impressed because he said some things we don't agree with, some things a lot agree with, right? | ||
| Now, some of these people that come from, you know, the immigrants that come here, they should take the test, right? | ||
| And find out who's good or who's bad. | ||
| Keep the good ones here, right? | ||
| And get rid of the bad ones, like the amphithructuans and all those people that are bringing that dope in our country, you know, because, you know, I think, you know, it shouldn't be red and blue. | ||
| It should be red and white and blue because this nation was founded out of Christianity. | ||
| It says one nation under God. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Jeff in Virginia, we are in open forum. | ||
| We'll continue to take your thoughts on public policy or political issues. | ||
| I want to show you a video message that was released yesterday by outgoing D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser. | ||
| Now looking to the future, I know we've laid the groundwork for others to build upon to reshape and grow DC's economy, establish DC as the 51st state, and protect our investments in affordable housing, transportation, public safety, and public schools, and to build a world-class stadium, housing, recreation, and parks at RFK. | ||
| It has been the honor of my life to be your mayor. | ||
| But today, with a grateful heart, I am announcing that I will not seek a fourth term. | ||
| When you placed your trust in me 10 years ago, you gave me an extraordinary opportunity to have a positive impact on my hometown. | ||
| Every day since, I've cherished the opportunity and have happily given all my passion and energy to the job that I love. | ||
| Together, you and I have built a legacy of success of which I'm intensely proud. | ||
| And for the next 12 months, let's run through the tape and keep winning for DC. | ||
| Thank you, DC. | ||
| The DC mayor announcing she will not seek a fourth term in 2026. | ||
| Cheryl in Indiana, Democratic Caller, we're in Open Forum. | ||
| Cheryl, good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, and thank you so much. | |
| I would like to maybe address the affordable housing issue. | ||
| In 2019, my husband had passed away and I had to sell my house and I decided to move closer to my daughter. | ||
| In 2019, the interest rates were very low and I was looking for a house and I have found that the houses that would maybe generally cost $70,000 with the low interest rates. | ||
| The prices of houses were jacked up almost twice and sometimes three times the original value. | ||
| I had an interest rate of 3% on my mortgage. | ||
| But I think that is why the prices of houses are so high, because when the interest rate was low, all the housing prices were so jacked up and now the young people can't even afford to buy a house. | ||
| So that's my take of it. | ||
| That's my opinion. | ||
| And I live in northern Indiana, which is, we live in a very affordable section of Indiana. | ||
| But the housing prices have skyrocketed. | ||
| And I think it was due to the interest rates being so low and speculators and house flippers would outbid everybody and jack up the prices. | ||
| So that's just my opinion. | ||
| Okay, Cheryl there in Indiana. | ||
| Several of you responding to our conversation in our second hour this morning about affordability. | ||
| We shared with you then, we'll share with you now a poll that Politico did, top affordability concerns in the United States. | ||
| And housing, as that caller was just talking about, ranked at 38%. | ||
| Groceries was number one, with 45% of those polled saying it was their top affordability concern. | ||
| 34% said it was health care. | ||
| 31% utility bills. | ||
| And 17% of those surveyed said it was repaying debt. | ||
| Charles in Georgia and Independent. | ||
| Hi, Charles. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| Listen, it ain't this health care. | ||
| It's the basic problem. | ||
| It goes back to this. | ||
| We're too damn fat. | ||
| I read that if everybody weighed what they're supposed to, it would cut health care 75%. | ||
| And how do you do that then, Charles? | ||
| How do you do that? | ||
|
unidentified
|
How do you deal with obesity? | |
| Well, you start charging more for your weight. | ||
| People start losing that weight. | ||
| But you just sit them out here, take a pill. | ||
| That's all we are now. | ||
| Instead of trying to keep your weight off and exercise, the country is too fat. | ||
| Look at the look out every day how obese they folks are. | ||
| 300, 350 pounds. | ||
| They're everywhere. | ||
| All right, Charles in Georgia. | ||
| Paul's a Republican, Lafayette, Louisiana. | ||
| Hi, Paul. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, good. | |
| Yes, good morning. | ||
| And thank you for taking my call. | ||
| Three things. | ||
| Number one, we have a federal program issuing money to buy condoms for probation and parole people. | ||
| I don't think that the government should be doing this. | ||
| Secondly, how many independents are there in the United States? | ||
| And thirdly, important, has the cost of illegal drugs in the United States has dropped because of Mr. President Trump trying to make a dent on that. | ||
| And I don't know if they'll have any records on that. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Barbie is in Nashville, Tennessee, independent. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I just have a couple of weird random things. | ||
| The Transportation Secretary telling people what to wear on an airplane, I think, is very odd. | ||
| And I'm not surprised they're not talking more about this because I think it would make people angry. | ||
| I mean, I'm not a pajama wearer on an airplane. | ||
| I actually dress as if the airplane were going to crash. | ||
| I know that sounds crazy, but I try to wear like clothes that if plane crashes, I'll survive. | ||
| So I'm, you know, that's just me. | ||
| But I don't care if other people are wearing pajamas. | ||
| Barbie is the point that the Transportation Secretary has made is that if you are dressed better, you'll behave better. | ||
| You respond to that already. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I get that. | |
| I get that. | ||
| But I'm not really sure that that works anymore. | ||
| I mean, it's kind of old-fashioned or something. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I just don't think that people should be told what to wear, period. | ||
| Because we're free here in this country, and you can travel as you wish. | ||
| That said, you know, I don't wear pajamas on an airplane. | ||
| That's just, you know, my personal got it, Barbie. | ||
| Got it. | ||
| Let me go to Walter, who's in Burlington, North Carolina, Democratic caller. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, ma'am. | |
| Good morning. | ||
| I just saw on Twitter that President Trump's press secretary's sister-in-law was picked up by ICE. | ||
| Can you verify that for me? | ||
| Well, we showed a headline earlier today by NBC had the headline about a cousin of the press secretary. | ||
| Here's another one from WCVB.com. | ||
| Woman with family connections to White House press secretary. | ||
| Well, there's the NBC one. | ||
| Caroline Levitt's relative detained by ICE. | ||
| The mother of Levitt's nephew is subject to deportation. | ||
| So you're curious about this, Walter. | ||
| Why? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Beg pardon? | |
| You bring it up because? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, I just happened to see it on Twitter, and I was curious whether or not this was true. | |
| Okay, Patricia, Irvine, California, Independent. | ||
| Patricia, we're an open forum. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I have a programming idea. | ||
| I am blown away by how smart so many callers are and amazed that people know as much as they do about the background subject matter, even if they're not a professional in the field or an expert. | ||
| But a lot of people aren't. | ||
| And so my idea is fundamental Fridays or tutorial Tuesdays and C-STAN bring on experts, bipartisan, nonpartisan, whatever, that explain, like march through the amendments and the Bill of Rights, civics lessons that so many people have missed. | ||
| Like the economy. | ||
| I was shocked when Mr. Maddox said he didn't understand the difference between a dollar spent by the government versus a wealthy person investing in the stock market. | ||
| What globalism is, what Democrats want, what Republicans want, where we align, where we don't align. | ||
| It's every expert who comes on about a topic of the day is having to cover background. | ||
| That would be great if you guys had segments you could direct people to watch about the fundamentals. | ||
| Patricia, I love that idea. | ||
| I love that idea. | ||
| Patricia and Irvine, California, Independent. | ||
| Thank you for that. | ||
| Gail in Texas, Republican. | ||
| Hi, Gail. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| Gail, you got to mute your television, all right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right, just saying. | |
| All right, Gail is in Texas, a Republican. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I totally agree with Patricia. | |
| What she had to say was great. | ||
| And the public does. | ||
| People need to know, really, about our Constitution and how it protects our rights. | ||
| And also, I have to say, this medical problem has really gotten out of hand. | ||
| And, you know, it is when you try to go to the hospital for emergency, your apps, when you go to the emergency room, there are a lot of people in there. | ||
| And a lot of those people are in there. | ||
| They're not there for emergency. | ||
| They're there for their medical care. | ||
| And I, you know, I'm just amazed. | ||
| So, you know, you're waiting to get in when you have an emergency. | ||
| It's wrong. | ||
| We have people that are taking advantage. | ||
| We have a lot of LAOs that have come in here, and that is their medical. | ||
| That's how they get their service. | ||
| All right, Gail, with her thoughts, a Republican in Texas. | ||
| Cindy, Williamsburg, Kansas, Democratic caller. | ||
| Cindy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| I'm not sure if anybody already covered this, but I'm calling about the pre-authorization requirements for insurance. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And what about it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Go ahead. | |
| Yep, what about it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, the insurance company requires pre-authorization on anything, on drugs, on operations, on anything done. | |
| And part of the problem with our healthcare system is that the insurance company, who has no medical background, tells the doctor what to do. | ||
| So I think if we could somehow, you know, take that out of the equation, don't allow insurance companies to be the ones in charge of the pre-authorizations, then a lot more people would be covered with what they need to be covered because, you know, it's an insurance company monopoly, right? | ||
| There are monopolies in the pharmacies. | ||
| There's monopolies in the, you know, the insurance companies. | ||
| So they're just about making money. | ||
| They're not about making people healthy like the doctor is. | ||
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So if they could pass a law that says the insurance company couldn't require that, that would do so much good for the health care system. | |
| All right, Martin's waiting in Richmond, Missouri and Independent. | ||
| Martin, your turn. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, hi. | |
| I think the country has become involved in too much complicated discussions and not sensible debate. | ||
| So they don't have sensible debate. | ||
| They can't even read a book like a book written about 1930, Will Durant's story of philosophy. | ||
| There's simple explanations. | ||
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
They just damn and condemn simple explanations and don't have sensible debates. | |
| All right, Martin's it for open forum here this morning on the Washington Journal. | ||
| We're going to take a break when we come back from threatening broadcasters to reviewing multi-billion dollar media mergers. | ||
| The FCC and the Trump administration is flexing its regulatory muscle. | ||
| We'll take a closer look at the FCC's actions so far with Ted Johnson, political editor for Deadline. | ||
| Stay with us. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
| Yale constitutional law professor Akhil Reed Amar's second book in a trilogy is titled Born Equal, Remaking America's Constitution, 1840 to 1920. | ||
| In Professor Amar's introduction, he writes, Millions of Americans can recite by heart Lincoln's opening line at Gettysburg. | ||
| But how many of us understand it? | ||
| This sentence sits at the very center of this book. | ||
| Akhil Amar was born in 1958 in Ann Arbor, Michigan, was raised in California after law school at Yale, clerked for Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer, and became a junior professor back at his alma mater at age 26. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Author Akhil Reed Ammar with his book, Born Equal, Remaking America's Constitution, 1840 to 1920 on this episode of Book Notes Plus with our host, Brian Lamb. | |
| Book Notes Plus is available wherever you get your podcasts and on the C-SPAN Now app. | ||
| On Thanksgiving Day, starting at 10 a.m. Eastern, C-SPAN presents a day-long America 250 Marathon, all part of our more than year-long coverage of historic moments that explore the American story. | ||
| At 11 a.m., we'll feature Boston's Freedom Trail through a guided tour featuring the site of the Boston Massacre, Old Statehouse, Faniel Hall, and Old North Church. | ||
| Give me liberty or give me death. | ||
| At 2.30 p.m. Eastern, Patrick Henry's Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death speech on the 250th anniversary and in its original location, St. John's Church in Richmond. | ||
| At 6.05 p.m., the U.S. Navy 250th anniversary Victory at Sea Concert in Philadelphia with a musical performance by Patty LaBelle. | ||
| Also at 8 p.m., the 1775 Battle of Bunker Hill, where more than 1,000 reenactors commemorate one of the earliest and most consequential Revolutionary War battles. | ||
| And at 9.30 p.m., a celebration of the U.S. Army's 250th anniversary, featuring a parade through Washington, D.C., an enlistment ceremony, parachute demonstration, and fireworks. | ||
| Watch the America 250 Thanksgiving all-day marathon on Thursday on C-SPAN. | ||
| Also, head over to C-SPAN.org to get the full schedule. | ||
| Washington Journal continues. | ||
| Joining us this morning is the political editor of Deadline, Ted Johnson, to talk about the Trump administration's FCC policies and freedom of the press. | ||
| Ted Jones, I want to begin with a recent piece written by you. | ||
| The headline is, FCC launches review of network-affiliate relationships. | ||
| What did you find out? | ||
| Well, first of all, it sounds pretty regulatory and pretty technical, but very simply, what the FCC chairman Brendan Carr has started is looking into the question of whether the broadcast networks, EBC, NBC, Fox, CBS, have too much power over local stations, their affiliates that agree to air the programming. | ||
| This has been a long time concern of affiliate stations that they're just kind of forced to air some of this programming. | ||
| And also, I should say it's also a matter of money that the networks just have so much leverage over them to extract certain affiliate fees. | ||
| So there's a business reason for this, and there's also probably a political reason for this. | ||
| So what we're going to see over the next month is different groups weighing in, different companies weighing in to see if there is anything that the FCC can do to actually change this policy or to actually establish some policy on how those contracts are written between broadcasters and their affiliate stations. | ||
| Now, again, that's a pretty regulatory way of putting things, but I think there's a lot of suspicion on the part of Democrats in particular that this is just another way for the Trump administration to kind of punish major networks because they don't like some of the programming that they're airing, in particular some of the late night shows as well as some of the news programming. | ||
| Another headline from Deadline, Donald Trump continues attacks on ABC with call to drop Jimmy Kimmel after late night host makes Jeffrey Epstein jokes. | ||
| Ted Johnson? | ||
| Well, this is one in a series of attacks that Trump has made actually through both terms where he has watched something, whether it's Jimmy Kimmel or Seth Myers, and he'll take to Truth Social and say, why isn't anything done about this? | ||
| They should lose their license. | ||
| Well, the fact of the matter is that's a very complicated process. | ||
| It's also a very rare process where the FCC moves and tries to revoke a broadcaster's license. | ||
| I can only cite one instance where it happened. | ||
| It was actually in the late 60s, where there was a station in Mississippi that lost its broadcast license. | ||
| It was advocating segregation. | ||
| So look at the historic timeline, you can see how that was probably problematic in that era. | ||
| But it's actually a very kind of draconian process for the FCC to take, in particular, if it's just the president upset over something that he saw on the airwaves. | ||
| If it were to happen, I would imagine that broadcasters would challenge this in court. | ||
| And in all likelihood, they would win. | ||
| What is the role of the FCC in our government? | ||
| Does it have the authority that you are talking about here? | ||
| Well, yeah, you know, first of all, a lot of people kind of misinterpret what the FCC does. | ||
| They will watch something on cable. | ||
| They will watch something on streaming, and they think, well, how can the FCC allow this? | ||
| Well, the FCC doesn't really have much authority over cable and streaming. | ||
| It has authority over broadcasters. | ||
| This goes back to the 1930s, where it issues broadcast licenses to use the public airwaves. | ||
| In return, broadcasters are supposed to abide by this standard called the public interest standard. | ||
| Now, it's somewhat vague, but it's come to mean localism, it's come to mean diversity, and it's come to mean competition. | ||
| So there is some leeway that FCC chairmen can take or chairwomen can take in trying to enforce this broadcast, this public interest standard. | ||
| And Brendan Carr, who is a Republican, has come into office even before Trump was sworn in, saying that he wants to take a rigorous view of the public interest standard. | ||
| It's somewhat rare for Republicans who tend to be a little more regulatory hands-off. | ||
| Now, the FCC also runs up against the First Amendment. | ||
| There actually is limitations on what it can do, and its authority is actually pretty narrow. | ||
| What has happened, though, is Brendan Carr has launched a number of investigations against broadcasters over certain programming. | ||
| And he's also looking at certain complaints that have been filed against broadcasters. | ||
| His detractors, Democrats, and even some former Republican FCC chairmen, say that he's overstepping his authority. | ||
| And what he's doing is actually something called jawboning, which is kind of another term for it is regulation by raised eyebrow, where he doesn't necessarily have the authority, but just the threat of the FCC coming down on a local station or coming down on NBC will get broadcasters to actually change their behavior. | ||
| And to a certain extent, that has happened. | ||
| We are talking this morning with Ted Johnson, political editor of Deadline. | ||
| We want all of you to join us in the conversation as well. | ||
| Democrats 202-748-8000. | ||
| Republicans 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Independents 202-748-8002. | ||
| We'll get to your calls in just a minute. | ||
| Ted Johnson, let's listen to the president. | ||
| Here's the most recent example of a dust-up with an ABC news reporter in the Oval Office recently. | ||
| Here's President Trump. | ||
| Why wait for Congress to release the Epstein files? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Why not just do it now? | |
| It's not the question that I mind, it's your attitude. | ||
| I think you are a terrible reporter. | ||
| It's the way you ask these questions. | ||
| You start off with a man who's highly respected, asking him a horrible, insubordinate, and just a terrible question. | ||
| And you could even ask that same exact question nicely. | ||
| You're all psyched. | ||
| Somebody psyches you over at ABC. | ||
| You're going to psych. | ||
| You're a terrible person and a terrible reporter. | ||
| People are wise to your hoax. | ||
| And ABC is your company, your crappy company, is one of the perpetrators. | ||
| And I'll tell you something. | ||
| I'll tell you something. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So why not just kind of ask? | |
| The license should be taken away from ABC because your news is so fake and it's so wrong. | ||
| And we have a great commissioner, the chairman, who should look at that because I think when you come in and when you're 97% negative to Trump and then Trump wins the election in a landslide, that means obviously your news is not credible. | ||
| President Trump in the Oval Office recently, Ted Johnson, before you respond, I want to show this post by Ana Gomez on X. | ||
| The FCC doesn't get to decide whether the news coverage of those in power is acceptable. | ||
| It has neither the legal authority nor the constitutional right to pursue broadcasters for their journalism. | ||
| These threats sound ominous, but they're empty. | ||
| Who is Ana Gomez? | ||
| Ana Gomez is the sole Democrat on the FCC. | ||
| There are three commissioners right now, so it's a two-to-one split in favor of the Republicans, which is pretty traditional. | ||
| Every administration gets to control the FCC. | ||
| But she has been very outspoken on what has been happening there. | ||
| She calls it an effort by the Trump administration to exert censorship and control over broadcast programming, in particular broadcast news programming. | ||
| The way in for Brendan Carr to kind of address some of these instances where there is a flare-up over some network's news report has been through the FCC's news distortion policy. | ||
| That's a policy that says that broadcasters can't deliberately misrepresent the facts in a broadcast news report. | ||
| It has been rarely enforced. | ||
| And the instances, you know, you can probably count on one hand where it even led to the FCC kind of admonishing the networks. | ||
| Probably the most recent was back in the early 90s when NBC shows Dateline tried to rig a, with explosive devices, tried to rig an auto test. | ||
| It was on a, I think, on GM, how they were testing automobile safety. | ||
| And that didn't lead to a fine. | ||
| It didn't lead to broadcast licenses being revoked. | ||
| It led to just kind of a sternly written letter. | ||
| But what Hannah Gomez says is that Carr is way overstepping his bounds when it comes to the news distortion policy. | ||
| And there has been an effort by former FCC chairmen as well as former FCC commissioners, including those in the Reagan administration and the George H.W. Bush administration, to revoke the news distortion policy, saying it shouldn't be allowed to be used as a weapon to try to intimidate stations and broadcasters. | ||
| We are talking with Ted Johnson, political editor with Deadline. | ||
| We'll go to Patrick, who's in Naples, Florida, Democratic Caller. | ||
| You're up first, Patrick. | ||
| Question or comment for Ted Johnson about the FCC. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, a question and maybe a comment. | |
| Back in 1933, there was something called the Reich Ministry for Public Enlightenment and Propaganda. | ||
| And comparison to that and Trump today and how he's taken over our press and how we'll no longer have a free press. | ||
| I think that's all. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Ted Johnson. | ||
| Well, yeah, I don't think we're at that point yet. | ||
| The thing about it is that the courts have, There's quite a bit of case law in the courts that upholds the right of broadcasters, upholds the rights of the press to report freely on issues of public importance. | ||
| And that's why, you know, some of these complaints that have been filed against the FCC, for example, the way that EBC moderated the presidential debate or the way that 60 Minutes edited an interview, a lot of legal experts think that if there were ever an FCC fine or an effort to revoke the license, that it just wouldn't stand up in court, even in the Supreme Court. | ||
| That it just because it runs aground with the First Amendment, it's the FCC getting involved in editorial decisions, which the courts have frowned upon. | ||
| So there is that protection there. | ||
| But again, none of these complaints, none of these investigations, there have been no decisions. | ||
| And companies have, in certain instances, actually changed their policies rather than deal with the headache of trying to challenge the FCC and trying to challenge the Trump administration. | ||
| Barbara's next. | ||
| Whittington, Vermont, Republican. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| So, two points. | ||
| Of course, today, they don't just report the news. | ||
| It's opinion, opinion, too many opinions, and there's a million opinions. | ||
| So it's swayed in one direction, definitely anti-Trump today, you know, policy, bad, whatever. | ||
| This is bad. | ||
| But, you know, so it's definitely sways people's judgments because they just listen to the shows, the opinions. | ||
| How about like a station that just has facts? | ||
| That would be great, like the old days. | ||
| And then I have a question. | ||
| I don't know if he can answer it. | ||
| Back in the 80s or so, when they took off broadcast TV that was free, so we used to have all these channels that were free. | ||
| And then when the cable channels came into play, they said you're going to pay for it because there will be no commercials. | ||
| And that was like a contract of some sort with America. | ||
| That didn't happen. | ||
| So we all know our bills are up to $200 a month and we get so many commercials and no free TV today. | ||
| Could you explain those two little issues, please? | ||
| Thanks, Barbara. | ||
| Ted Johnson. | ||
| Yes, thank you. | ||
| Those are two good issues. | ||
| The first, the first on the whole idea that there's too much opinion. | ||
| I think you're certainly right. | ||
| There is no shortage of opinion on cable, even on broadcast. | ||
| One of the reasons that you see that is because it's relatively cheap to produce. | ||
| It costs much less to get two pundits on the air and to go at it rather than to go out and hire a reporter and do a heavily reported news report and a package with a camera person. | ||
| So that it's part of it has to do with money, just the expense of it. | ||
| And the other part is that there's ample examples where opinion tends to get higher ratings than just straight news reporting. | ||
| Part of the reason is that there is quite a lot of straight news reporting out there, whether it's online, whether it's been broadcast, whether it's in cable. | ||
| But there have been examples. | ||
| For example, NewsNation is a network that started about five years ago, and they really marketed themselves that, hey, we're going to be unbiased. | ||
| We have like a biased monitor to make sure that we don't lean in one direction or the other. | ||
| And the result, while they have been gaining some in the ratings, they are very far behind any other cable network. | ||
| So it kind of goes back maybe to that whole idea of in the news business, if it leads, it leads. | ||
| You know, it's sometimes the loudest voices are the ones that get the attention. | ||
| And who owns that network? | ||
| That is owned by Nexstar. | ||
| And Nexstar right now is trying to buy Tegna, which is another TV station group. | ||
| I should say Nextstar is a station group as well. | ||
| And they're trying to combine right now. | ||
| And that is one of the big rationales that they're making is that, hey, we really do need more unbiased news out there. | ||
| Your headline, we were showing Ted Johnson on Nexstar. | ||
| Nextstar weighs in after Donald Trump criticizes one of its key deregulatory goals, eliminating the media ownership cap. | ||
| What does Nexstar want and what is the White House saying? | ||
| Well, there is an FCC regulation that you can, if you are a company, you cannot own stations that cover more than 39%, that reach more than 39% of the households. | ||
| I think that's kind of the exact language. | ||
| Nextstar wants to buy another major station group, Tegna, as I mentioned. | ||
| They would be well beyond the cap. | ||
| So they're trying to merge. | ||
| So that opens the question of how can they do it? | ||
| Well, at the same time, the FCC is looking at whether to raise that 39% cap, essentially deregulation, which would allow Nexstar and Tegna to combine. | ||
| Trump just a few days ago, to a lot of surprise, said, hey, caution here. | ||
| Maybe this isn't the right thing to do. | ||
| Maybe we should really keep this 39% cap in place. | ||
| He wasn't specific. | ||
| Well, he was specific to the broadcasters, but he wasn't specific as to how this would all work out. | ||
| But I think that that has given Nexstar some pause. | ||
| Even though there's been indications that this FCC supports raising the cap, the president has kind of weighed in and he has a lot of misgivings. | ||
| Keith is in Boulder, Colorado. | ||
| Democratic Color. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, everyone, and happy Thanksgiving. | |
| You're pretty much spot on, but let's not split the baby by half. | ||
| Right-wing media is a threat to our democracy. | ||
| That's a bold statement. | ||
| I'm aware of it. | ||
| But what right-wing media and Trump are doing is akin to McCarthyism, the blacklist of the 1950s and 60s. | ||
| I've spent 30 years in media. | ||
| I'm semi-retired since I've taught school and history. | ||
| And I try to relay this to my students when discussing history. | ||
| I strongly encourage everyone who's interested in the fallacy of media bias or liberal bias. | ||
| There's no liberal bias. | ||
| It's a corporate bias. | ||
| And why I say that is because we learned this from Fred Friendly decades ago, and George Clooney rightly put it in good night, good luck. | ||
| I'd also suggest that everyone watch the film Network, which led me into media as a teenager. | ||
| Okay, Keith, I've got to jump in because we are running out of time. | ||
| Ted Johnson, we've got just about a minute here. | ||
| Could you walk us through what you're watching next when it comes to the FCC actions that we talked about this morning? | ||
| Well, the ownership cap is probably the biggest issue because it does impact the Nexstar Tegna merger, which is one of the bigger mergers that we've seen in recent years. | ||
| So that is certainly a major thing that everyone is watching, what they do. | ||
| And also, is there any other FCC action like we saw with Jimmy Kimmel, where the FCC chairman issued this warning and it led to Kimmel being suspended at least for a few days? | ||
| Is there any other instance like that because of the president's upset over certain programming and the FCC's chairman's willingness to take certain action or to make certain statements that lead to such incidents like that? | ||
| For our viewers interested in following Ted Johnson's reporting, go to deadline.com. | ||
| He's the political editor there. | ||
| Thank you very much for the conversation and happy Thanksgiving to you. | ||
| Happy Thanksgiving. | ||
| Thanks so much. | ||
| And we want to say happy Thanksgiving to all of you that watch us. | ||
| We are certainly grateful for the companies that power C-SPAN and for all of you that tune in and watch and join us for conversations every day. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| enjoy your holiday. | ||
|
unidentified
|
On Thanksgiving Day, starting at 10 a.m. Eastern, C-SPAN presents a day-long America 250 Marathon, all part of our more than year-long coverage of historic moments that explore the American story. | |
| At 11 a.m., we'll feature Boston's Freedom Trail through a guided tour, featuring the site of the Boston Massacre, Old Statehouse, Fanyu Hall, and Old North Church. | ||
| Give me liberty or give me death. | ||
| At 2.30 p.m. Eastern, Patrick Henry's Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death speech on the 250th anniversary and in its original location, St. John's Church in Richmond. | ||
| At 6.05 p.m., the U.S. Navy 250th anniversary Victory at Sea concert in Philadelphia with a musical performance by Patty LaBelle. | ||
| Also at 8 p.m., the 1775 Battle of Bunker Hill, where more than 1,000 reenactors commemorate one of the earliest and most consequential Revolutionary War battles. | ||
| And at 9.30 p.m., a celebration of the U.S. Army's 250th anniversary, featuring a parade through Washington, D.C., an enlistment ceremony, parachute demonstration, and fireworks. | ||
| Watch the America 250 Thanksgiving All-Day Marathon on Thursday on C-SPAN. | ||
| Also, head over to C-SPAN.org to get the full schedule. | ||
| Friday, on C-SPAN's Ceasefire, at a time when finding common ground matters most in Washington, host Dasha Burns sits down with Cornell West, Union Theological Seminary professor, and Robert George, Princeton University professor, for a civil dialogue on rising political polarization in the U.S. and top issues facing the country. | ||
| Bridging the divide in American politics. | ||
| Watch Ceasefire Friday at 7 p.m. and 10 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN. | ||
| Democracy. | ||
| It isn't just an idea. | ||
| It's a process. | ||
| A process shaped by leaders elected to the highest offices and entrusted to a select few with guarding its basic principles. |