CSPAN - Washington Journal 11/02/2025

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Nov. 2, 2025 06:59-10:00 - CSPAN

03:00:57

Washington Journal 11/02/2025

Participants

Main

alex gangitano

politico 15:37

dave weigel

16:00

jill dougherty

31:53

pedro echevarria

cspan 36:11

Appearances

barack obama

d 01:10

john cornyn

sen/r 01:16

john fetterman

sen/d 01:12

marjorie taylor greene

rep/r 00:55

steven bassett

00:40

Clips

boyce upholt

00:21

dan mccall

00:08

dannion brinkley

00:06

david rubenstein

00:03

joe cardinale

00:13

mike emanuel

fox 00:20

nate fischer

00:04

stacy schiff

00:20

walter burien

00:09

willie nelson

00:16

Callers

dennis in north carolina

callers 00:05

mustafa in new york

callers 00:13

penned patriot in vegas

callers 00:13

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Now we're getting somewhere.
		So let's go.
		Let's go faster.
		Let's go further.
		Let's go beyond.
		Midco supports C-SPAN as a public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy.
		A critical election night on C-SPAN.
		From coast to coast, key races that could shape America's future.
		In New York City, a hard-fought mayor's race in the nation's largest city.
		Governor's races heating up in New Jersey and Virginia.
		And a California constitutional amendment that could shift the balance in Congress.
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		Election night, Tuesday at 6 p.m. Eastern, only on C-SPAN.
		Your democracy, unfiltered.
		Coming up this morning on Washington Journal, along with your calls and comments live, we'll talk about Tuesday's elections and the government shutdown with semaphore's David Weigel and Politico's Alex Gangitano.
		Also, author Jill Dougherty discusses her recent trip to Ukraine, Poland, and Lithuania and the impact of the Russia-Ukraine war.
		Washington Journal is next.
		Join the conversation.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		This is The Washington Journal for November 2nd.
		It's the 33rd day of the government shutdown.
		Over the weekend, former President Obama took Republicans to task for the lack of action in getting government open.
		And Republicans also appeared on television with the message that it was the lack of Democratic votes in the Senate keeping many federal employees from going back to work and doing their jobs.
		And some Republicans and Democrats are putting some blame on their own party for the current stalemate.
		When it comes to that stalemate, who do you blame for the shutdown stalemate?
		Democrats, you can tell us on 202-748-8000.
		Republicans 202-748-8001.
		And Independents 202-748-8002.
		If you're a federal employee and you want to give us perspective, 202-748-8003 is how you do that.
		As always, you can post on our social media sites at Facebook and X and send us a text as well.
unidentified		202-748-8003.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		What's the Washington Post with that recent polling of Americans taking a look at blame when it comes to the federal shutdown?
		The recent poll is a little different from the poll on the same question they took back in October.
		It was October 1st when they published that at the time, 47% of Republicans or 47% of those responding say it was Republicans' fault for the shutdown.
		23 didn't know.
		30% said it was the Democrats' fault.
		In that most recent polling, not too much change in numbers.
		45% of those responding, blaming President Trump on the Republicans, saying that it was their fault for the shutdown.
		It was a little creative for those who weren't sure.
		And then for Democrats, it was a 33% of those responding said they were not sure of who was to blame for it was their fault for the shutdown.
		So that's the most recent polling on it.
		It was President Obama yesterday, former President Obama campaigning for Virginia Democratic gubernatorial candidate Abigail Spanberger.
		And during those comments that he made, he talked about the current state of the shutdown and gave his perspective on who's responsible for it.
		Here's former President Obama from yesterday.
barack obama ▲ ● ▼		Hundreds of thousands of federal employees, including a lot of people here in Virginia, have lost their jobs to pay for those billionaire tax cuts.
		We're talking about people who have dedicated their lives to public service, who make the country work.
		Health care premiums for millions of people are about to double or even triple next year.
		Meanwhile, the government is shut down, and the Republicans who currently are in charge of Congress, they're not even pretending to solve the problem.
		They have not even been showing up to work.
		Not in session.
		Where are you?
		What are you doing?
		And as for the president, he has been focused on critical issues like paving over the Rose Garden so folks don't get mud on their shoes and gold-plating the Oval Office and building a $300 million ballroom.
		So, Virginia, here's the good news: if you can't visit a doctor, don't worry.
		He will save you a dance.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Former President Obama referencing the shutdown, putting blames on Republicans.
		Who do you blame as far as the stalemate is concerned?
		Again, those are the numbers that you can give us your perspectives.
		They all start with the 202 area code.
		Hold off if you called in the last 30 days if you can and pick the line that best represents you.
		202748-8000 for Democrats.
		Republicans 202-748-8001.
		And Independents 202-748-8002.
		Federal workers, you can give your thoughts to 202-748-8003.
		One more look at that Washington poll graphic that came out again.
		This was from October 1st.
		This is the latest poll.
		23% in both cases of respondents saying they weren't sure who's responsible.
		Those are the ones for blaming the president and Republicans.
		Those are the ones blaming Democrats in Congress.
		And you can reference that or other aspects there, too.
		Joey in Ohio, Republican line on this.
		Who's to blame for the stalemate?
		Joey, hello.
unidentified		Go ahead.
		Well, I mean, I think it's fairly obvious when you look at things.
		All the Republicans minus one have voted for the continuing CR, the clean bill.
		And three, well, two Democrats and one Independent in the Senate have done and joined them.
		But, you know, all they need is like six Democrats in the Senate to grow a spine and get the government going so they can go to the table and discuss these health care issues.
		And I think it's the Democrats that are holding it up.
		You see them saying on different media outlets, this is their only leverage that they have is the pain they're inflicting on the American people.
		And I think it's really a tragedy, really, when you think about it.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that a break in this stalemate is coming anytime soon?
unidentified		I think if they use these funds to fund SNAP and WIC, I think it might last longer because if they can solve that immediate issue, I think that's what's holding things up or like making it more important right now.
		So it could go on for a while.
		I think it'll eventually be the whole air traffic and people getting ready to go for the holidays that brings it to an end.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Joey there in Ohio starting us off.
		Let's hear from Diane in Ann Arbor, Michigan.
		Democrats line.
		Hi there.
unidentified		Yes, hello.
		I don't know how the Republicans can blame anyone but themselves.
		They are the ones in power.
		They are in power of the three branches of government.
		They have the Supreme Court on their side.
		They even have the Department of Justice.
		I mean, how much more can they have?
		They wrote this.
		They own it.
		And they can't point the finger at anybody else.
		So while they're collecting their six-figure income, children are going to starve in America.
		Can you believe it?
		How much can, how lower can we stoop?
		They are evil.
		What the Democrats need to do is this next election, national election, is offer Franklin Delano Roosevelt's second Bill of Rights.
		The Democrats should offer that and they would win.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		But in the short term, Diane, should Democrats at least go to this idea of voting to pass the CR and then having discussions about things like health care and other topics?
unidentified		I'm going to leave that up to them.
		I'm just saying the question you asked was: who is at fault?
		Who do I think is at fault?
		I think it's the Republicans, and I'm tired of them blaming someone else for what they created, and that's hunger and fear of getting sick in America.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Diane, there in Ann Arbor, Michigan.
		This is Sam joining us in New York, Independent Line, blaming who do you blame for the current stalemate on the shutdown.
		Sam, hello.
unidentified		Hi, hello, everyone.
		I think it's honestly both of them.
		It is both Democratics and Republicans.
		Democrats don't fight enough for the working class.
		They pretend to.
		I don't know if that's worse or it's the blatant way that Republicans just don't care about the working class.
		What upsets me the most is that there are enough poor Republicans, working class poor Republicans, that continuously, election after election, are somehow convinced that their working class is somehow different or is not affected by the same things that affects on the Democratic side.
		I think both sides are ignoring or pretending to care about the working class until the conservative working class begins to realize that the Republicans truly don't care.
		If you're not poor, excuse me, if you're poor, they don't care about you or they pretend to.
		And so they play these games with these laws, with the snap, with everything.
		It isn't just Democrats who are Democratic states and populations that are going to suffer from this snap thing or the health care thing.
		And it is until I think conservatives that realize, hey, these people don't care about the working class.
		They pretend to.
		And they play these games with saying, hey, you know, pointing the thing to the other side.
		Until the working class gets together on both sides and votes for the working class and not care about being in a cult, that's, I think, when things are going to change.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Let's hear from John, Johnson, Pennsylvania, Republican line.
		Hi there.
		You're next up.
unidentified		Yes.
		Hi.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		I think it's the Democrats' fault because they, like what the previous caller said, they claim to care about the American people.
		But yet when it comes time to vote, with the exception of my senator, Senator Fetterman, they haven't been able to do so.
		And I just wish there were more Democratic senators like my senator, Senator Fetterman, to reopen the government and stop playing the games.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Have you been surprised by Senator Fetterman's comments on this issue over the last couple of weeks?
unidentified		Yes, I have, and I didn't even vote for him in 2022.
unidentified		And I can say for the first time that I support what he's doing.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		That's John in Pennsylvania.
		He's bringing up Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman, Senator Fetterman on News Nation, talking about the shutdowns, where his perspective is when it comes to blame and responsibility.
		Here's Senator Fetterman.
john fetterman ▲ ● ▼		All I can do as one of the few Democrats that have been consistently voting to open our government, and it's always, always wrong, Republican or Democrats to shut our government down.
		All I can do is like apologize for people.
		Now, my wife, she runs a program here in our community, feeding people, and the line was long.
		And people are now wondering, you know, what's going to happen here.
		I mean, this is a real thing, and this is impacting millions of Americans.
		In my own state, that's 2 million, 2 million Pennsylvanians now rely on SNAP.
		And now, 42 million is American across the nation.
		And now, as far as I know, every single union that's a part of it now is calling this and said this all has to end.
		At this point, for me, it's entirely inappropriate, and it's always, always a terrible tactic.
		We might have different priorities.
		I mean, I absolutely think we should, you know, maybe find a way to work forward to extend our tax credits, but that doesn't mean it justifies, in my opinion, for seizing our government and holding it hostage for now.
unidentified		It's over a month again.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Senator Fetterman on News Nation, you heard the caller from Pennsylvania reference his perspective.
		You can bring up your own legislators' perspective as well.
		But we want to hear from you when it comes to this idea of stalemate and who's responsible.
		This is Debbie.
		Debbie's in West Virginia.
		Democrat slide.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		I blame the Republicans and Trump.
		West Virginia is a poor state, and there's children here that's going to starve.
		Thank you.
		Bye.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		From Texas, Texas is on our independent line.
		This is Frank.
		Frank, go ahead.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		Well, I mean, I know there's a lot of talk going back and forth and back and forth, but there's a bottom line to it.
		They've done had 14 votes in the Senate, 14.
		And every single time the Democrats have voted to shut the government down.
		They could have chosen, they had another one.
		I think two or three days ago, they had 13 votes.
		I think they done had another one, 14.
		And the Democrats, every time, has voted to shut it down.
		They vote to shut the troops down, don't pay the troops, don't pay the snap.
		That is the bottom line.
		They've had 14 chances to open the government, and 14 times they've voted no, except for Mr. Trutherman and one or two other Democrats that have come over to the census because they actually care about America.
		The ones that don't, the radical left lunatics and the Democratic Party are leading the somewhat, I thought, was decent Democrats around by the nose.
		They just leading them around.
		They're scared of the radical left lunatics.
		And they're scared of humor is.
		And they just, but they've done had 14 times, 14 times they could have done this in the last month or so.
		You know, and every time they vote to vote it down, they vote to shut the government down.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
		Gotcha.
		That's Frank there in Texas in the website, The Fulcrum, a piece taking a look a little bit of history when it comes to shutdown and congressional power over it and the section how Congress got here.
		The seeds of the shutdown were planted decades ago.
		The 1974 Budget Act was designed to restore congressional control after President Nixon refused to spend funds that lawmakers had approved.
		Ironically, that reform became the mechanism of Congress's undoing.
		Strict deadlines and complex rules encourage political standoffs, and presidents quickly learn to take advantage whenever Congress failed to meet them.
		By the 1990s, shutdowns have become political theater.
		Kingridge's 1995 clash with Clinton was the first to weaponize the threat of closure as ideological leverage.
		Even then, congressional leaders accepted responsibility for ending the crisis because they still saw themselves as stewards of the institution.
		That sense of stewardship has disappeared.
		A stark reminder of how swiftly accountability fades when politics devolves into spectacle.
		And then adding, today's GOP treats fiscal chaos not as failure, but as strategy.
		Speaker Johnson's caucus and the pressure from the far-right freedom caucus views paralysis as proof of principle.
		Better to burn down the process than risk compromise.
		Early Republican leaders from Howard Baker to John Boehner recognized the true cost of dysfunction.
		Their successors have chosen submission instead.
		If you want to read more about the congressional history, that's the piece at the fulcrum: the real shutdown, Congress's surrender of power.
		George, Republican line in Ohio.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, good morning, Pedro.
		I was going to talk about something different, but listening to these calls, you know, there's a comparison, and you may not like it, but Hamas and the Democratic Party are about the same.
		If you think about it, they hold innocent people hostage.
		That's all this is about.
		Maybe no one's died because of this yet, but 53% of the SNAB benefits go to non-citizens.
		I don't know if you know that.
		And you speak of Obama.
		When Obama was president, my wife, I'm going to tell you a true story.
		And I got all the facts, and I got paperwork.
		When Obama was president, he started the Obamacare.
		My wife worked for a company that was based in Georgia.
		They had a phone conference where they were going to give health care benefits.
		I got on the phone.
		I told my wife, I said, this is not a health care benefit.
		They stopped the meeting as soon as I started talking because they knew it wasn't a health care benefit.
		But on the IRS statement that year, they had to fill out a form and they filled out like they were given health care benefits, which they weren't.
		My wife had to buy a policy for $500 a month because if she got on Obamacare, they would have fired her.
		Okay.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's go to Willie.
		Willie in Pooler, Georgia, Democrats line.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Good morning, sir.
unidentified		How are you?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Fine, thank you.
unidentified		Let me again commend C-SPAN for bringing this issue to the table.
		I just heard a gentleman talking about health care.
		I just heard someone talk about in Texas about calling each other, demonizing each other as radical dissent.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Well, they keep going.
		We still got you.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		I just want to understand why we call each other names.
		Why do we do all this?
		You ask the question: who is the blame for shutting down the government?
		The last time Chuck Schumer went along with the Republicans to keep the government going, and they promised they will come to the table and talk about the health care.
		The healthcare issue is a little different.
		The healthcare issue is altogether different.
		So this time, the Democrats standing up and say we're going to protect the beings and beings of people around the country to make sure they get the health care.
		This is not about one political party, other political party.
		The Republicans have took a stand.
		They took a stand not to come to work, not to do what they need to do.
		So the Democrats taking a stand.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		So, when Republicans say Democrats should vote for the CR and let's talk about these issues, how should they respond to that?
unidentified		They should respond this way here.
		The last time you told us to vote for something and we'll take care of the issue, they reneged on it.
		So, this time, the Democrats saying we're not going to go down that road again.
dennis in north carolina ▲ ● ▼		We're not going down the road where y'all promise to talk about something and then don't talk about it.
unidentified		So, this issue about health care, means and millions of Americans, healthcare is going to go up because of the beautiful bill that they wrote.
mustafa in new york ▲ ● ▼		Donald Trump and Republican Party have literally took America down the road we never thought about, giving $40 million billion dollars to Argentino, and we got farmers not selling their wheat to China.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Willie, there in Pooler, Georgia, the previous caller had mentioned President Obama.
		We've shown you this chart plenty over the last 30-odd-something days, but we'll show it to you again when it comes to the history of shutdowns and the length, the 35 days, the longest in the previous Trump administration.
		That record will be broken this week if the shutdown continues come Wednesday.
		But under President Obama in 2013, a shutdown of 16 days.
		There's the rest.
		If you want and interested in the history of history, .house.gov is the website you can go to if you're interested in learning more about the history of shutdowns.
		On our independent line, this is Paul, Paul in Florida.
		Hi there.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		As an independent, I'm no fan of Republicans or Democrats, but I will say that Republicans control the House, the Senate, and the White House.
		This shutdown could be over in about 15 minutes.
		All the Senate has to do, right, the Republican controlled Senate, is eliminate the filibuster in a 15-minute vote, and this shutdown is over.
		So there's a lot of hand-wringing by Republicans and Democrats, but the fact of the matter is this could have been over if they had simply eliminated the filibuster.
		And we all know why they don't want to do that.
		But political reality is that they could have opened the government.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And you say you know why they don't want to do that.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Why is that?
unidentified		Well, they're worried about when they lose control of the Senate and the House and the White House, that it'll be a simple majority vote on most things to get things done.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And is that a concern then going forward if the Senate decide to change filibuster rules, considering the way it's been used in the past?
unidentified		Of course.
unidentified		I mean, both sides are concerned about that.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		But what about you?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Are you concerned about that?
unidentified		No.
		No.
		Get out and vote.
		Simple majority, it's not in the Constitution that we have to have a filibuster.
		Okay?
		So get out the vote, make your best argument, put your best candidates forward, and see where things land in terms of political control.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Alan is up next.
		Democrats line in Brooklyn.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		Thank you so much.
		It's obviously far too much to say, but I want to focus on a few points I almost never hear about.
		The oath of office is treated like a formality, but it basically is a contract with the people.
		And Roberts had no business swearing in the president until he got further assurances from him that he did not mean his public statements during the campaign that he intended to terminate the Constitution because the earth of the oath required that he swear to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution.
		So there should be some sort of mass action on behalf of young people too young to vote, but old enough to understand what's at stake.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's bring it up to the modern day as far as the current shutdown and who do you blame for it.
unidentified		I clearly blame the president because I believe that when Russian television said last December this cabinet will dismantle America from within brick by brick, that this is part of Trump's goal.
		His retribution is not against particular individuals who harmed him.
		It's against the entire country.
		And I do believe that he is acting on behalf of Putin.
		And we have a right if he can polygraph his employees to find out if they are spies.
		I think the public, watching the course of his behavior that's clearly aimed at dismantling America with an incompetent Congress, with an incompetent cabinet, rather, with actions that are clearly designed to destroy the future climate of young people who can't vote yet, they have some kind of right to establish that he is acting on their behalf and not on behalf of foreign power.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Yep, we got that.
		That's Alan in Brooklyn.
		You can continue on your thoughts when it comes to who's to blame for the stalemate.
		Again, Democrats, 202748, 8000.
		Republicans, 202748, 8001.
		And Independents, 202748, 8002.
		Perhaps you are a federal employee and you want to give a perspective on your thought on who's to blame.
		202-748-8003 is how you do that.
		Text us on that number two.
		And then Facebook and X, also available if you want to post your thoughts there as well.
		This is from Al in Florida, Republican line.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good morning.
		It's the Democrats.
		Why are we continuing to spend COVID money?
		I mean, the leftists and the liberals are so damn selfish.
		You have spent $37 trillion.
		I look at my grandchildren.
		Think of your grandchildren.
		The Republicans are trying.
		What are they trying to do?
		Grow this economy, get this budget under control.
		The terrorists are about confronting terrorists that have been against us for 50 years.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Well, to keep it to the tissue at hand, it's health care issues that's the current stalemate over the budget, or at least when it comes to reopening the government.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		What do you think about that?
unidentified		Subsidies.
		Those were COVID subsidies.
		And when Biden spent trillions of dollars, it caused 20% inflation for that period.
		Historic.
		When are you going to learn the lesson that if we don't control spending, it causes inflation?
		We need to grow our way out of this.
		This is a fiscal cliff for our grandchildren.
		This is why they're not living our state.
		They don't have our standard of living.
		Now the answer is socialism.
		You've had failed.
		Where is the great society?
		Now we're going to have more of the great society because the great society failed.
		The leftists are so damn arrogant.
		Admit your policies failed.
		They failed our grandchildren.
		And stop being so damn selfish.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Al there in Florida, The Guardian picks up an aspect of the shutdown when it comes to air travel.
		Viewer had mentioned it earlier.
		This story is saying that nearly 50% of the 30 busiest U.S. airports faced shortages of air traffic controllers, according to the FAA, said Friday, leading to flight nations, flight delays nationwide.
		This was from the 31st day of the shutdown, saying the absence of controllers last Friday is by far the most widespread since the shutdown began, with one of the worst hit regions being New York, where 80% of air traffic controllers were out, according to the agency.
		At least 35 FAA facilities, including several at the largest U.S. airports, reported staffing problems.
		Airports affected, including facilities in New York City, Austin, Newark, Phoenix, Washington, Nashville, Dallas, and Denver.
		At some airports, those delays were averaged of one hour or more.
		The shutdown has forced 13,000 air traffic controllers and 50,000 Transportation Security Administration officers to work without pay.
		From John.
		John in New York, Independent Line.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		How are you doing?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		I'm well, thanks.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Well, as a former federal government worker, I have to sympathize with the thousands, if not tens of thousands, of workers who are now out of a job for the time being.
unidentified		I kind of see this situation.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		I'm almost 60 years old now as a representative of how rhetoric has become more important to our governmental system than actually getting anything done.
unidentified		Hope that this shutdown will end eventually, but I doubt that it will end anytime soon.
unidentified		And we're just seeing the continuing disintegration of our governmental system.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		As a federal worker, at least a former one, were you ever in a situation where you had to stop doing your job because of a shutdown?
unidentified		Yes, yes.
steven bassett ▲ ● ▼		Back in 1995, when the government shut down, I was able to get back to New York, where I'm formerly from, but a fellow worker of mine had to travel all the way to Oklahoma because our money ran out and nobody could really support the federal workers anymore.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Democrats line, Dennis.
		Dennis in Brooklyn, New York.
		Democrats line.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yes, good morning.
		I just have one question to ask, and that is: I want everybody to look into the word G-O-P and tell us what it is, G-O-P, what it means.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And historically, it stood for the Grand Old Party, but how does that relate to the shutdown?
unidentified		Okay, no, I'm just saying.
		Okay, the shutdown is ridiculous.
		It is completely ridiculous.
		If you are the head of the Democrats, the head of the Congress, the Senate, and the president, why is it that we have to go through this struggle just to feed our people?
		It's not right.
		That's all I have to say.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Felix is joining us also from New York on our line for others, identifies himself as a federal worker.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Felix.
unidentified		How are you doing today?
		I'm going to blame the independents because Democrats and Republicans, you know, I think they're all tribes.
		So they're not going to give up their position at work.
		Or they're not going to give up their elected seat just to go against their own tribe.
		They're not going to do that.
		And, you know, how horrible is Mike Johnson, the optics, just not to at least have Congress in session?
		I mean, it's important to at least show that you care about the people because they're getting paid.
		You know, the people that aren't getting paid, you know what I'm saying, are the ones that are the ones that are starting.
		The congressmen aren't getting paid.
		And I think a lot of it has to do also with the new Senate-elect in Arizona.
		Once Congress does come back in session, she has to get sworn in.
		So that's a little, you know, it's just, I think it has more to do with that than anything else.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		So, Felix, you said you were a federal worker.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Are you currently not working?
unidentified		I'm retired already.
		Thank God I'm retired already, but it's just scary, you know what I'm saying?
		To see why this leader, the speaker, who is, you can see that he's tethered to the president.
		You know, that he just doesn't, you know, the optics, it's just look bad.
		You know, you're not having, you know, folks, you know, at the Capitol and you're getting paid to be home and people are not getting paid to be at work.
		It just doesn't look right.
		So I mean, I'm going to blame the independents, but I think the Republicans have a lot to do with this because they are in charge of all three houses.
		You know what I'm saying?
		So, yeah.
		All right.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		That's Felix there in New York.
		We'll continue on.
		Again, pick the number that best represents you.
		We've been showing you those.
		If you've called in the last 30 days, hold off from doing so today.
		Again, a line for federal workers, current federal workers, if you want to give your perspective on the state of the shutdown.
		Always, Facebook available to you.
		X as well.
		Text us at 202-748-8003 if you wish.
		Dennis up next.
		Dennis in Wisconsin, Republican line.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Hi, how are you today?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Fine, thank you.
unidentified		Go ahead.
		My name is Dennis D. Williams.
		I'm from Combined Locks, Wisconsin.
		I was a businessman for 41 years of my life, 18 hours a day, seven days a week.
		Am I still alive yet?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		I don't mean what you're saying.
		You're on, Dennis.
		Just keep going.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		I mean, Dennis D. Williams.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay, callers, this is a good reminder.
		If you are calling us and you're waiting online to do so, if you could just turn down that television, we would appreciate it only because there's a delay between when we say things here and then if you're paying attention to your TV, especially if you're listening for your voice to show up, then that's going to be a delay as well.
		And that could halt the conversation.
		So as you prepare to come on, just go ahead and mute or turn off your television.
		We would appreciate it.
		Let's go to Kim.
		Kim in Columbus, Ohio, Democrats line.
unidentified		Hi.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Kim in Columbus, Ohio.
unidentified		Yes.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Okay.
		Yeah, I'm glad we're talking about a shutdown because since Trump has been in, we've been shutting down everywhere.
		We ain't paying no attention to these companies that've been firing 25,000 at 2,500 at a time, 700 at a time, 200 whole companies filing bankruptcy, shutting down.
		Why are we talking about this shutdown?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Well, we cover Congress and we watch it closely.
		And since it's Congress that's currently, or at least Congress and the federal government that shuts down, we watch that as well.
		So what do you think about the federal government shutdown?
unidentified		I feel like everybody else is getting shut down.
		So I don't know.
		I work out at a plant.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		That's Kim there.
		Bernie Sanders, Senator, the independent senator from Vermont in The Guardian with an op-ed.
		This is the op-ed headline: Democrats must not cave in to Donald Trump.
		Senator Sanders writes this in part saying, what will it mean if the Democrats cave?
		Trump, who already holds Democrats in contempt and views them as weak and ineffectual, will utilize his victory to accelerate his movement toward authoritarianism.
		At a time when he already has no regard for our democratic system of checks and balances, he will be emboldened to continue decimating programs that protect elderly people, children, and the sick and the poor while giving more tax breaks and other benefits to his fellow oligarchs.
		If the Democrats cave now, it would be a betrayal of the millions of Americans who have fought and died for democracy in our Constitution.
		It would be a sellout of a working class that is struggling to survive in a very difficult economic times.
		Democrats in Congress are the last remaining opposition to Trump's quest for absolute power.
		To surrender now would be a historic tragedy for our country, something that history will not look kindly upon.
		Again, the thoughts of Senator Sanders, The Guardian is where you can find those thoughts if you're interested in reading that whole opinion piece online.
		Let's go to Lee.
		Lee in Texas, Independent Line.
		Good morning.
		Lee in Texas, hello.
unidentified		Oh, good morning.
		Good morning.
		I want to blame the Republicans.
		I know that they can use the nuclear option.
		They've already used it twice since Trump was president.
		On another note, I think Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Shilmer are doing a horrible job.
		I think that they're outdated.
		They need some new blood in there.
		They're out of touch with what the people want.
		And that's all I got to say.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Well, Lee, before you go, when you say they're doing a horrible job, do you mean in this current shutdown?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And if that's the case, specifically how?
unidentified		No, no, sir.
		The current shutdown is something that they should have been, they should have done it the last time, as far as I'm concerned.
		I mean, the Republicans are not coming to the table.
		All these Republicans calling, they got to say the same exact things over and over and over.
		You're holding the government hostage.
		That's not true.
		Nuclear option was used for Trump's picks, and y'all need to scream that to the mountaintops every time somebody says it.
		Thank you very much.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Let's hear from Annette.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Annette on our Republican line in Alabama.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello, and good morning.
		You know, Democrats refuse to open the government until Republicans agree to make the COVID ACA huge increases in the premiums to be permanent.
		And this is paid by our taxes.
		By ignoring the expiration date, these ACA insurers are being rewarded.
		They're out of control and raising premiums at such an excessive amount.
		And they should be forced to explain the reason.
		Why are they doubling and tripling?
		It makes no sense.
		But the Democratic Party wants to allow this massive increase by using our tax dollars, calling it subsidies.
		And these are going to do nothing but go up every year.
		I don't get it.
		And it takes 60 votes to pass a CR to reopen.
		Republicans only have 51.
		So it takes two.
		This is not, I don't get it because, Pedro, this is the people of America are suffering.
		And I just don't get it.
		There's no real reason for this.
		They need to do their job, go back and argue or, you know, have meetings about what to do and all this.
		That's their job.
		Shutting it down is doing nothing but hurting the country.
		And we are 38 trillion in debt and climbing.
		And we pay $1 trillion over that every year just for interest.
		And that's not going to stop.
		Okay.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		There's Annette.
		Here's Arthur.
		He's in Florida, identifies himself as a federal worker.
		Calling in.
		Arthur, hello.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		How are you doing today?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Fine, thank you.
unidentified		Yeah, my thing is I think the problem lies on the Republicans and the reason why because they over the Senate, the House.
		And I think that They're holding hostages on the people because Trump wants to overdo this insurance on these people and give it to the rich peoples that got plenty of money.
		He wants to do everything for the wealthy.
		Don't want to do nothing for the.
		But I think people need to look at this and see that this Republicans really don't care nothing about peoples.
		They care about position and being over and not caring about the government and the people.
		They shut everything down because they want what they want and they want to take from the poor and the middle-class people in America.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Arthur there in Florida giving his thoughts.
		Texas Senator John Cornyn on Fox News giving his thoughts when it comes to the current state of the shutdown and who's to blame, at least from his perspective.
		Here are his recent thoughts on the matter.
mike emanuel ▲ ● ▼		How does this shutdown end and what about the frustration with the Senate rules?
john cornyn ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is a dumpster fire of Chuck Schumer's own making.
		The House, as you know, passed a continuing resolution in November the 21st.
		We're almost there.
		And the simplest way to solve the problem would be for him to free up at least five more Democrats to vote to reopen the government.
		But insofar as the filibuster is concerned, I think there's good reasons to preserve the filibuster when Democrats are in charge.
		They can basically grant amnesty to all of the folks illegally in the country.
		They can create two states, Puerto Rico and Washington, D.C., with each with two Democratic senators.
		In other words, they could transform the country forever.
		But with this unprecedented obstruction by Chuck Schumer, I think all options should be on the table.
mike emanuel ▲ ● ▼		An estimated 42 million people are impacted by the expiration of SNAP benefits.
		You're somebody trying to address that issue.
		Do you expect at some point a vote on addressing the SNAP issue?
john cornyn ▲ ● ▼		Mike, this is a problem of Democrats' creation, and now they're blaming President Trump, who had no responsibility for shutting down the government.
		And they should reopen the government and make this problem simply go away.
		But, you know, rather than have this duked out in the courts because there are contradictory court rulings already about how or whether these contingency funds can be accessed, the simplest solution is reopen the government.
		Problem solved.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Again, Senator Cornyn from Texas, we will hear from David next in North Carolina, Democrats line.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Hello, you're next.
unidentified		Oh, good morning.
		Thank you.
		I was just wanting to come up.
		I think that this is Mr. Schumer's shutdown and the ACA that they're complaining about.
		I believe that Nancy Pelosi had that passed.
		2,800 bills, I mean, paper pages that nobody read.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Wait, just to clarify, you're a Democrat and you're blaming the Democrats for this?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		Oh, I'm a Democrat, been a Democrat since 66, and it's gotten to evil.
		I mean, it's not the Democrat Party that I used to know.
		All that you have up there now are liars and thieves.
		I'm going to tell you the truth.
		Ashton, AOC, she don't know what she's doing.
		She cut me off.
		Okay.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		David, you're still on.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead and finish your thought.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		I think that Mr. Barack Obama, doesn't he get a cut out of this ACA that was passed?
		I believe when they pass that, he's got some fingers in the back.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay, David in North Carolina there.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Let's hear from Sherry in South Carolina, Republican line.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yes, sir.
		Hello.
		I'm just calling to say the Chuck Schumer and also that Jakeem Jeffries shouldn't even be allowed to be in politics.
		They are absolutely the they almost want to just threaten people.
		But our president of the United States deserves respect.
		They don't know how to respect.
		None of the Democrats respect our President of the United States.
		Some do, but not all of them.
		We have some that are horrible.
		He is doing a fabulous job.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Well, the president's asking Senate Republicans to change rules to get the shutdown over.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Should the senators, the Republican senators, respect that and change those rules?
unidentified		Yeah, they need to respect their president and go back to the White House and do what they're supposed to do.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, no, I'm saying, should they change the rules because the president says so?
unidentified		Because the president says so?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		They need to, yeah, the president has already gotten something in mind and in plan, but they want to go and listen to everything he has because our president is smart enough to know that he is, that the people should know that he is not going to do anything to hurt them.
		He's trying to make it better for everyone.
		Not just, I mean, I'm pointing out as many illegals as we have in this United States of America that are getting food stamps and staff and things, and they're taking the jobs away from the American people.
		Our people that are getting out of hospitals and getting out of colleges, they do not have a chance to get jobs because people will be letting these immigrants have them.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Okay.
		Who do you blame for the federal shutdown?
		Your chance to comment if you wish.
		202-748-8000 for Democrats.
		202748-8001 for Republicans.
		And Independents, 202748-8002.
		You see that line for federal workers there.
		If you're a current federal worker, retired federal worker, and you want to give perspective on what you see at the current shutdown, you can do that too on that line.
		You can also send us a text if you wish at that line.
		And as always, you'll probably be posting about this after this segment is over, but you can also do that too on Facebook, facebook.com slash C-SPAN and on X at C-SPANWJ.
		Poughkeepsie, New York, Independent Line.
		Paul, you are next up on this idea of who's to blame for the shutdown.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		How are you today?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for asking.
unidentified		I blame both parties.
		I don't believe in the shutdown.
		I believe in the Constitution.
dannion brinkley ▲ ● ▼		The Constitution was there to keep law and order.
unidentified		And you have to follow the Constitution.
		And Schumer, they're not talking about giving illegals health care.
		It's very important to me, healthcare.
		I'm struggling now to get health care for my daughter.
		Now, why should I have to struggle?
		And you get illegals come in here and they're going to give it to them for free.
		You know, I've been paying into health care my whole life so that I can be protected from illness.
		And I work six days, seven days a week sometimes.
		I'm a retired state worker.
		And I think the Democrats should come back to the table and be concerned about the American people now, the veterans, also.
		You know, my grandparents came here the right way.
		They had a sponsor.
		And my mother was separated from her mother for months because certain paperwork wasn't right.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		So, Paul, let me go back to the statement you just met.
		You said the Democrats should go back to the table.
		What does that mean?
unidentified		Well, they should stop being concerned about illegal immigrants.
		Why should our money go to people who haven't paid into the system?
		I mean, that's what they're holding.
		That's what Schumer is bringing to the table.
		They want free health care.
		Why?
		Why aren't they discussing Social Security?
		Why aren't they putting money back into the Social Security?
		They're sending money everywhere.
		And this is both sides.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Let's go to Jill.
		Jill in Chicago on our line for others, a retired federal worker.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		I basically, and I am an independent, but I'm also the federal, retired from the federal government.
		I blame what I call the Republicrats since the Citizens United decision meant that our power was run more by money than anything else, because you can have corporations buying off the politicians.
		I think that and what has happened to our entire political system over the last 30 years that I've been watching it since, as I said, Citizens United, since this is all driven by contributions and what it takes to run for a political office.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		So how does that relate to the current shutdown then, if it's all going back to that Citizens United thing you talked about?
unidentified		Well, it goes back to the shutdown.
		People talk about they voted 14 times and the Democrats won't vote, won't capitulate and vote for it.
		Well, they've voted if you put forth the same proposal 14 times, change nothing about it, dis options, how could the Democrats, you know, do anything but continue to vote against what they initially voted for?
		They're both just playing into what has become the current, you know, let's run into the walls and keep beating each other and get nowhere.
		They don't care what happens to the citizens of this country.
		All of the benefits of this government go far more.
		I keep hearing people talking about health care going to immigrants.
		What about the huge corporations and the very small population of ultra-rich people in this country that don't pay any more of a percent of their income and pay far less percent of their income in taxes than I ever did.
		Okay.
		Okay.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		That's Jill there in Chicago.
		Go to the site Snopes and when it comes to this idea of health care for immigrants, and the thing it pulls up is that going back to President Reagan signing that law requiring emergency health care for undocumented immigrants, saying that the claim that Snopes investigating, saying former U.S. President Ronald Reagan signed the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, which required emergency rooms to provide emergency health care to anyone regardless of immigration status in 1986.
		They claim it is a true statement under the context of under the law, it was President Reagan signing that ERs take Medicare payments, which is most of them must provide emergency care to anyone regardless of ability to pay or immigration status.
		Some social media posts claim the act guaranteed health services to all undocumented immigrants, but the act required that only hospitals provide everyone with emergency health care, not other forms of health services.
		You can do your own work looking at this mission.
		Snopes are otherwise.
		But there's their perspective on it, another perspective that has been offered on this idea of the shutdown and blame Georgia Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene on the show Bill Maher's show recently talking about her own party's role in what she's seen play out in the past 30-plus days.
		Here's a little bit of her statements.
marjorie taylor greene ▲ ● ▼		You know, looking at Obamacare, it was passed in 2010, it went into place in 2014, and premiums have skyrocketed ever since.
		It was good for some that couldn't afford health insurance or couldn't get health insurance, but for the middle class, small business owners, people that had to buy their own insurance, it has crushed them.
		And so I've been demanding.
unidentified		Obamacare has crushed them.
unidentified		Obamacare's what's her.
marjorie taylor greene ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		I'll tell you, for example, when Obamacare went into place, it took my own family of five health insurance policy from $800 a month to over $2,400 a month, more than our mortgage payment.
		And that's what so many people have experienced over all these years.
		But here's the big problem: it's about to skyrocket in January of 2025.
		Here's why I'm angry.
		The Democrats passed Obamacare, but yet the Republicans have never done anything to correct the problems that exist with it.
		And I blame my own party.
		That's absolutely wrong.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		That's the comments of Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene.
		Let's hear from David in Florida, Republican line on this idea of blame for the shutdown.
		David, hello.
unidentified		Oh, good morning, Pedro.
		Of course, it's the Democrats' fault.
		And I won't go into why your other guests have already mentioned that many times.
		Look, the Democrats, not too long ago, had the presidency, they had the House, they had the Senate.
		They could have solved this health care subsidy problem that they keep complaining about then.
		They didn't do it.
		The reason they didn't do it is because they didn't want to pay for it.
		They wanted the federal government to pay for it and not the states.
		The next time you have a Democrat senator or House on your show, why don't you ask them why they didn't solve this problem when they had the three branches of government?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Since the three branches of government control the current White House in Congress, do you think there's some responsibility for Republicans to act to end this shutdown?
unidentified		Well, they said they would try to solve it when they get the CR passed, but not try to do it now.
		What I'm saying is the Democrats could have done it when they had the three branches and they didn't do anything about it.
		They're the ones complaining about it, not the Republicans.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Sure, I'm saying, but as long as their three branches are hold, should Republicans do something about it significantly as far as health care is concerned now?
unidentified		As soon as they pass the CR, they're going to do it.
		They said they would do it, and I believe they will do it.
		Absolutely.
		Okay.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Another, this is from Steve.
		Steve is in Pennsylvania, Independent Line.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Hello.
		As to the question of who's to blame, there's plenty enough of that to go around.
		What I'd like to address is the notion or belief that health care is a right, is a human right.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's start with the blame and who's plenty to go around.
unidentified		Who would you blame?
		Plenty.
		Think everyone.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Well, give me an example on both sides then.
unidentified		Well, certainly.
		There wouldn't be a fight if there wasn't blame on both sides.
		Just pick a name, and they're to blame.
		Now.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'll pick a name.
		It's Chuck Tumer and John Thune in the Senate.
		How are they to blame?
unidentified		They're to blame.
unidentified		I'm sorry, I didn't hear the first part of the question.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Well, you said pick a name.
		I picked two, Senator Thune and Senator Schumer in the Senate.
		How are they to blame?
unidentified		Well, they're on opposite sides of the issue.
		They're not talking to one another.
		They're on opposite sides of the issue.
		That's easy enough to do to blame the other without talking with one another.
		We're talking about wants and needs as far as health care.
		The world owes us nothing, and yet people seem to believe that health care is a human right.
		I'm sorry, folks.
		It's time to grow up.
		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Steve, another Steve in Missouri, Democrats line.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I blame Donald Trump and his trying to stamp out all the health care for the rural Americans and beat them down because he doesn't want to spend any of that money that he can embezzle himself.
		Even Elon Musk is sick of his garbage and is trying to warn the American people that he's running the country like a corporate raider who's shutting everything down and trying to embezzle all the money for himself and his rich, rich people who don't take squat for taxes.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Well, Steve, when you say that the president's trying to stamp out health care, what do you mean by that specifically?
unidentified		Well, it's obvious he's been trying it.
		He's trying to stamp out Social Security the first time he was in office.
		You can look that up on government.org with the bills he put to stamp out Social Security.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And now he's trying to give me a modern day example then from the second term.
unidentified		I started paying Social Security when I was 12 years old with my first job.
		And now they're going to make it to where I can't afford my medication.
		This is ridiculous.
		The amount of time people like me have paid into the system all our lives.
		And now they're like the previous caller is trying to say, we're not entitled for something we paid into all this time.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you one more question.
		Since you blame the president, the president was calling on Senate Republicans to change the rules in the Senate and pass the short-term CR, get the government open.
		What do you think about the president's action on that?
unidentified		I think he's still just trying to shut everything down.
		He lies about everything.
		He's got everybody saying that medical is going to go for illegal aliens.
		No, it only goes for people in emergency wards for a short time.
		He's not going to give them Medicare.
		Half the people that called in had all the information wrong because they're believing Trump and the Republicans lies about this.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Kendra's next in Richmond, Virginia, Independent Line.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, good morning, Pedro.
		As a black person, I'm a little bit, I'm calling as an independent, but I lean a little bit more conservative, which is why I'm hoping Winsome Sears wins for governor on Tuesday.
		But anyway, I believe the government will reopen within a week of the November elections.
		To me, it seems like the Democrats are stalling in hopes that they can convince the naive that Republicans are the problem and are causing citizens to lose SNAP benefits.
		And they are hoping that the naive will then go to the polls and vote blue.
		I agree with a caller that called on Friday.
		His name was Don, a Republican from California.
		He said the Democrats are willing to burn America to the ground as long as they can rule over the ashes.
		You know, the Democrats lied for four years and covered up the cognitive decline of President Biden.
		One more thing, Pedro.
		If Democrats keep mentioning Republicans are covering up the Epstein files, Republicans should insist on an investigation into who was behind the auto pen or rubber stamp that was being used for four years while Biden was president.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's go to Teresa.
		Teresa is a federal worker in Germantown, Maryland.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning.
		This is my first time calling, so please beg my forgiveness if I sound a little nervous.
		Of course, both parties play a role in the current government shutdown.
		One with Mike Johnson obfuscating his responsibilities by holding the Republican representatives at home and the Democrats waiting to the last minute to deal with this issue.
		Past this prologue, yes, the Democrats were in charge with Biden and they should have dealt with the issues with the Affordable Care Act, but we are talking about the current times, and so now both parties need to deal with the issue.
		Additionally, President Trump also needs to provide a level head.
		Some of his actions, or most of his actions to date since his second term in office, have been contrary to that.
		But everybody needs to be an adult and not act like they are cramming for the test and waiting to the last minute to do their homework or to do their work.
		With Trump coming into office the second time, yes, they want to look at what they said was waste fraud and abuse, but being a government worker and prior to that, being a contractor to the government, I have seen with the agencies I've worked with that they have all been on point when it comes to dealing with the money.
		Any audits we had, they did not find any waste, fraud, and abuse.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Teresa, if I may, you identify as a federal worker.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Are you currently part of the shutdown or not?
unidentified		Fortunately, I am being paid, and our agency is open the way our money has been given to us.
		It's two-year money, so we are covered up through September of 26.
		Well, I hope both parties get their act together and not have the government shut down that long.
		I think, as the past caller said, the one right prior to me, that it will be resolved in the next couple of weeks.
		It's a shame that we have food lines reminiscent of the Depression in the late 1920s.
		And it's ridiculous that money is being spent outside the country in Argentina or on a ballroom or on a new elaborate Lincoln bathroom when people are suffering.
		This is the United States of America.
		And I'll leave it at that.
		I can go on.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Teresa, first time caller, how did you find us?
unidentified		I've been listening to C-SPAN and watching C-SPAN over the years and actually started to listen to Washington Journal more because I rather get the voices of the public even if I don't just,
		even if I don't agree with some of the calls or some of the blatant overstatements, as opposed to some of the news programs who have just particular slants and that all they talk to is that particular slant.
		So thank you, C-SPAN, for everything that you did.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Teresa, for calling in.
		One more call on this topic.
		This is from Jeff in Westchester, New York, Republican line.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello, good morning.
		Thank you for taking the call.
		I'll be brief.
		I certainly blame the Democrats for this because really, this is all about the Democrats trying to undo different laws that were enacted as part of the Big Beautiful Bill.
		I mean, obviously, Schumer, why would he be trying and demanding that NPR and PBS get funding as part of his demands if this wasn't all about picking the things they did not like about the Big Beautiful Bill and trying to change it now by holding the government hostage?
		So I clearly blame the Democrats.
		My other comment, if I may, is, you know, there's this whole notion about SNAP being, you know, an entitlement, and certainly it is.
		But, you know, there are people that are entitled to SNAP.
		There are people that need SNAP, and there are people that receive SNAP.
joe cardinale ▲ ● ▼		And those are really three different numbers, because I would argue that there are a lot of people that receive SNAP, the $42 million, 42 million people number, and probably half of those people actually need it.
unidentified		And I'll give you a perfect example, sir.
		You know, when this government shutdown started, I actually went online and applied for SNAP just to see what the program was all about.
		I have net assets that are in the eighth-figure level, so I clearly am not in need of SNAP.
		But guess what?
		I actually qualify for SNAP, which tells you all you need to know about how broken a program is.
		Okay.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Jeff, there, final call on this topic.
		Thanks to those of you who participated.
		Later on in the program, we'll have a discussion with author and former CNN Moscow Bureau Chief Joe Doherty, recent travels overseas to look at how borders have changed since the start of the Russia and Ukraine war.
		And she'll give us her perspective.
		But first, with the government shutdown continuing and with Election Day coming up in just a matter of days, a discussion on those topics with semaphore's David Weigel and Politico's Alex Gangatano.
		We'll talk about those topics when Washington Journal continues.
unidentified		In his book, The Great River, Boyce Upholt talks about the history and geography of the Mississippi River.
unidentified		And tonight, on C-SPAN's Q ⁇ A, he discusses how government-built infrastructures have transformed the landscape and ecosystem, and in turn, how the Mississippi has affected the population living along its banks.
boyce upholt ▲ ● ▼		I often talk about the Mississippi River being essentially a forgotten river at this point, right?
		We know the name and we know about Mark Twain.
		And most of us think of it as being this economic thing where we know there are big boats out there, but people don't know what it looks like, don't know how beautiful it is, don't realize that it is an iconic landscape.
		It's as beautiful as Yellowstone or Yosemite in my mind.
unidentified		Boyce Upholt with his book, The Great River, tonight at 8 Eastern on C-SPAN's QA.
		You can listen to Q&A and all of our podcasts on our free C-SPAN Now app.
		Watch America's Book Club, C-SPAN's bold new original series.
		Today, with our guest Pulitzer Prize winner, Stacey Schiff, author of biographies, including Ben Franklin, Samuel Adams, and Cleopatra.
		She joins our host, renowned author and civic leader David Rubinstein.
		So writing a second book on Franklin, you must admire him.
		I assume you don't want to write two books on somebody you don't admire, but you do admire him.
stacy schiff ▲ ● ▼		I feel as if he is in always admirable in so many ways.
		Just the essential DNA of America.
		His voice is the voice of America, literally.
unidentified		Watch America's Book Club with Stacey Schiff today at 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific.
		Only on C-SPAN.
		Tuesday, a critical election night on C-SPAN.
		From coast to coast, key races that could shape America's future.
		In New York City, a hard-fought mayor's race in the nation's largest city.
		Governor's races heating up in New Jersey and Virginia.
		And a California constitutional amendment that could shift the balance in Congress.
		All the results, all of the speeches, coverage that's straight down the middle.
		Election night, Tuesday at 6 p.m. Eastern, only on C-SPAN.
		Your democracy unfiltered.
		Washington Journal continues.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Two guests joining us for a discussion not only on the shutdown, but the impact politically of that in studio Alex Gangitano, a White House reporter for Politico, and then joining us from New York, a politics reporter for Semaphore, David Weigel.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And both of you, thanks for giving us your time.
alex gangitano ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
dave weigel ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Dave, let me start with you.
		What's shutdown being at day 30 plus?
		What's the political impact so far?
dave weigel ▲ ● ▼		It has not been part of the daily conversation, the shutdown itself in these races.
		The way it has manifested is that one, the administration has threatened to cut funding for programs like the Gateway Tunnel.
		That's been an issue in New York and New Jersey, and use the shutdown as a reason for that.
		Two, it's affected people's economic well-being.
		It's affecting, as we speak, the 42 million SNAP beneficiaries.
		Democrats are talking about that.
		If you are a cynic and think that the Democrats could end this, but at the moment have the political upper hand, I think there's some basis for that because they are telling their voters that the way to end this shutdown is for Republicans to give Democrats what they want.
		And they're expecting their voters not to blame them for actual economic pain in their lives.
		That's what I've seen on the trail.
		I've not seen voters turning on Democrats because they refuse to vote for the CR.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And Alex Gangitano here in D.C., with Dave being on the trail, the White House looking at this whole thing, the facade is they're not worried about it, but what's the reality?
alex gangitano ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think for the past three weeks, we've been hearing from the White House that the American public is going to blame Democrats for this, so we're not too worried about it.
		And that's been their messaging even before the government officially shut down, during the shutdown, is that it's Democrats' fault that we don't have a clean CR passed.
		And the American public's going to realize that.
		There has been polling that's indicated that the American public is starting to shift more towards blaming Republicans, blaming the White House.
		Then on Thursday night, the president changed things up.
		We saw a bit of a messaging shift, and he called for Republicans to, quote, go nuclear, which means to eliminate the filibuster in order to reopen the government.
		That's something that a lot of members, including Republican Majority Leader John Thune, quickly poured some cold water on.
		And in talking to sources around the White House, it seems as if the president knows they're not going to eliminate the filibuster.
		He knows how difficult that would be, but wanted to convey his frustrations with the situation.
		I think when he was away on his seven-day Asia trip, he was hoping that Thune would figure this out and the government would reopen and they'd be able to, you know, arm wrangle some five Democratic senators.
		They weren't able to.
		And so the president was airing those frustrations on True Social there on Thursday night.
		So I don't think much will come out of that, but I think it points to the fact that the White House thought this would be a lot shorter of a shutdown.
		We're told they were looking at maybe a 10 days or so, and then they could get some moderate Democrats to change over to their side.
		And now at day 33, they don't really know what other path to go here.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Does it suggest that there's going to be more of a direct involvement going forward, given the president even signaling that kind of idea of changing rules to get it done?
alex gangitano ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And this was the first time the president really got personally involved.
		We also saw Vice President Vance on Thursday earlier that day meet with aviation leaders to talk about the impact on the travel industry.
		So I think we are gearing towards a White House president in particular that is going to get more involved, especially as they look at polling saying that Trump's the one that Americans are increasingly blaming here.
		I think they want to then get more involved.
		If that means inviting Democratic leadership to the White House, I think that would be a stretch before the government reopens, but we could see a move like that.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Dave Weigel, even to the president suggesting to change rules to get it done, and like Alex said, you know, that's a cold water poured on that.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		What does it suggest is where they are politically as far as the ability to get something done to resolve this issue?
dave weigel ▲ ● ▼		Not a lot has changed.
		The White House has polling it prefers.
		Democrats have polling they prefer.
		We've seen in some very minor movement away from Democrats during the shutdown, but the only electoral tests happening in the country are happening in New Jersey and Virginia and New York, et cetera, on Tuesday.
		I talked to DNC Chair Ken Martin this week.
		He was confident, one, that they sweep these elections, and two, that even labor unions and labor leaders who want the shutdown to end were actually willing to give Democrats more time on this.
		Because the other, we're talking about the Senate rules.
		The other thing that Democrats want as a condition of funding the government is some guarantee that the White House is not going to sign off on funding and then refuse to spend it or send a resistance package to the Senate as it did this summer that unwinds the funding.
		That's a promise they want.
		That's really broken down the entire process.
		Forget about the other political externalities, the elections, but the fact that for the first time since the early 1980s, you've got a White House saying, even if we might approve Democratic spending we don't like and then cut it, that has really broken the faith that Democrats have and that's broken their sense that there is going to be political damage if they don't act.
		This was not there in March.
		In March, they thought if we shut the government down, it's going to enable Russ Vote and the rest of the administration to shut down agencies.
		The administration doing that without congressional approval, doing that even for programs that were funded, that's really hard in the Democratic position.
		And I can't imagine the White House agreeing to that condition.
		If they did, that would move votes.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Again, our guest with us, if you want to ask some questions about matters of politics, whether it be shutdown politics, election politics, here's how you can do either.
		202-748-8,000 for Democrats, 202-748-8001 for Republicans, and Independents, 202-748-8002.
		If you want to send us a text, 202-748-8003.
		Dave Weigel is that a sense there is now it's the idea of saving face, depending on who gives first when it comes to resolving this issue.
dave weigel ▲ ● ▼		Some of that.
		The Democratic base would be very disappointed.
		And that's I'm speaking mostly about kind of white liberals and the people who've been rallying around Democrats this year at No Kings rallies, et cetera.
		They'd be very disappointed if Democrats, at the end of the shutdown, get nothing for it.
		And could Democrats save face in that situation?
		I'm not sure.
		You already see a mood in party primaries, in candidate recruitment, in fundraising, a mood of real disappointment with Democratic leadership, polling that says that Democratic voters don't think their party is fighting hard enough.
		That's frustrating if you're Chuck Schumer, you're Hakeem Jeffries, because you don't have many tools.
		It's less frustrating if you're a governor like J.B. Pritzker and you are able to resist the Trump administration.
		But for Democrats in Washington, anything, any resolution to the shutdown that puts them where they were in August, that reopens Congress without anything that they wanted and doesn't close this door to recessions, yes, they would face a lot of anger from their base.
		That definitely is spurring them to keep this going.
		And you saw Republicans looking for a couple of off-ramps, maybe after No Kings rallies, maybe after elections next week.
		This administration is not acting like one that cares about the optics of a shutdown, and Democrats are responding to that.
		I think the images of the Halloween party at Mar-a-Lago probably embolden Democrats to keep this shutdown going for another two days and make their point.
		I was in New Jersey last night with Barack Obama's speech for Mikey Sherrell.
		Make the point that, hey, voters, which of these parties is the one looking out for you?
		It's not them.
		As long as they get those political visuals and those arguments out there, Democrats really don't mind keeping this going.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Follow up on the optics then from the White House's perspective on it.
alex gangitano ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's exactly right.
		I mean, those visuals, I think the White House is trying to lean away from, is trying to say, well, this was just the president spending time with his close friends at his Palm Beach resort.
		And I don't think that they truly realize the impact that those have on everyday Americans who were worried about losing their SNAP benefits, who are worried about losing their Affordable Care Act subsidies.
		I mean, these are all real life issues that affect both Democrats and Republicans.
		And the way the White House is acting is largely like this is business as usual.
		We're going ahead.
		If the president wants to go to Mar-Lago on the weekends when it's chilly at his Virginia golf course, he's going to go.
		And I don't think that they right now are really assessing the damage that those images, him sitting next to Secretary of State Mark Orubio at Mar-Lago Halloween, a room full of wealthy Americans, how that could impact what the American public is viewing this as.
		Another thing I think that is worth mentioning is the White House is looking at this as the public will see how many issues there are with the Affordable Care Act, and they will want the president to come in and overhaul the health care system.
		Why save an Obama-era law that the president has for years since his first term been eyeing trying to get rid of?
		So I think that's what they're hoping the end result of this will be is say, look how bad this is.
		Look how the Obamacare subsidies didn't work out for all of you.
		We didn't come in and save it because we want to find a better way to do this.
		Of course, that's a huge uphill battle.
		Do Republicans in Congress have an appetite to deal with that?
		Do they have the votes for something like that?
		But I think that's part of their strategy too, is if Obamacare fails, it fails.
		And if people see that it's not working for them anymore, then they can be the hero that comes in.
		It's a long road ahead for something like that.
		But it's interesting when I talk to folks that that's part of their strategy.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Politico's Alex Gangitano with us, as well as semaphore's David Weigel.
		Let's hear from James.
		James in Ohio, Democrats line.
		Hello, your first up.
unidentified		Okay.
		I got a couple of things going on, but one I'd like to ask, I would like to see C-SPAN have a show one day where we have so many people that have worked for the government, that work for the post office, and the facilities that the Republican Party wants to close down and they vote Republican.
		I would like to have a program for Jeffson's people to call in and explain why they vote Republican.
		Now, I think right now the shutdown is going like it should go.
		I think the Democrats need to stand up and maintain their position.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay, James in Ohio, thanks for the suggestion.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Dave Weigel, maintain that position, hold the line, so to speak.
dave weigel ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's what the Democrats are hearing every day from their base.
		The only point I would add, the caller didn't bring it up, but Republicans are, while they're probably over optimistic about the shutdown ending and Democrats giving up, they are every week finding something else to talk about.
		And when it comes to healthcare subsidies and SNAP, in both cases, they've tried to make this about immigration.
		They've tried to say, SNAP most recently, you've seen Republicans who were like John Corner, who's facing primary challenges in Texas, say, well, Democrats want to keep SNAP going because they were finally going to get to see how many idle workers and how many non-citizens are benefiting from this.
		They're trying to make lemonade in some way, if that's not too blasé a way to put it.
		But Republicans are adjusting in the same way Democrats are, and they have a base and they have a conservative media infrastructure that is encouraging them to not just keep this going, but as it goes, try to explain your policy position in a way that gets voters on your side.
		They've been doing that.
		Putting Mexican sombreros on Democrats is a crude way of saying they were all doing this for illegal immigrants.
		They've kept up versions of that all month.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Alex Gayatano and the caller mentioned workers in D.C., we saw one of the largest unions call for a clean CR.
		We saw a lot of pushback against that.
		I suppose that the Republicans take this as a stride as well as far as a strategy going forward.
alex gangitano ▲ ● ▼		Unions and that union in particular that represents federal workers, that was a very welcome thing for the White House because they, you know, unions are something that this Trump type of politics has been trying to appeal to, more working class voters within the Republican Party.
		And once they saw that a union like the AFGA or GE was willing to side with them, quote unquote, in terms of saying we need a clean CR, they took that as a win.
		We saw some unions that work around the travel industry calling for the same.
		We saw Teamsters president Sean O'Brien, who was very active during the campaign, call for the same.
		They took that as a win.
		I think, though, what these unions were saying is we just need the government to reopen.
		And if a clean CR is the way to do it, that is the easiest path forward.
		That is the way to get this done immediately.
		Whereas not so much of Republicans are right, Democrats are wrong.
		But of course, that's been the White House has been so consistent in saying we just need a clean CR.
		Even if you ask them questions of how do you feel about somebody losing their SNAP benefits potentially as a result of this, what can the White House do to come in and help air traffic controllers ahead of the Thanksgiving holiday?
		Is there any discretionary funds that you can use like they did to pay the military troops?
		And I think it's been very telling that their answer has been it's up to Democrats to reopen this government.
		And they're not looking, unless a judge is going to step in, like we saw with the SNAP issue, they're not really looking for other ways that they can step in and make this more comfortable for people.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		We saw a lot of Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy that week.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		I suppose that's a sign there as far as their concerns are.
alex gangitano ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they are more focused.
		I mean, when I was talking early October about the issue of Thanksgiving travel, that felt like a long ways away.
		Republican sources didn't want to talk about it yet.
		Then we saw Duffy really stepping up his media presence last week, talking with travel leaders.
		I mean, I think they're looking at this.
		If we don't have an off-ramp in the next three weeks, that really impacts federal workers, non-federal workers, Americans just trying to go see their families.
		So I think they're seeing that as now a real issue, and it's evident by the fact that Duffy has been much more public.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Let's go to Marshall in Florida, Republican line.
		Good morning.
		You're on with our guests.
unidentified		Go ahead.
		Yes, good morning.
		What I was wondering, everybody's blaming Trump for this, but I believe if you stop and think, I think it's the Congress that is holding everything up, not Trump.
		And my question I like to ask is, why are the Republicans and the Democrats going home when we have troops out there, we have people out there that's not getting paid, but yet they can go home, they get paid, and they get to eat.
		But why can't they work over the weekend?
		They should be made to work over the weekend until this thing is resolved.
		This is ridiculous.
		So that's my question is why aren't they working over the weekend instead of going home and enjoying theirself while everybody else is out there trying to figure out where their next meal is going to come from?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		That is Marshall there in Florida.
		Alex Cangitano, is there this idea that the White House could and the president shielding himself any political impact from what we're seeing?
alex gangitano ▲ ● ▼		No, I think him traveling on a long trip, you know, he obviously wasn't going to cancel that.
		It was a very important trip for him.
		But, you know, he separated himself from Washington last week.
		And I think in the hopes of getting Republic, telling Republican leadership, figure this out while I'm gone.
		Again, I think they did not think that this would persist as long as it has.
		And so that he wouldn't have to shield himself from this.
		Congress would sort it out.
		But I think Democrats do, in terms of the strategy that they're going with, they do have the upper hand in the optics of the House and Senate leaving for the weekend because they can say, we're not in charge right now.
		It's, you know, Johnson and Thune telling their members, go ahead and go home.
		We'll figure this out on Monday.
		Even with yesterday's November 1 deadline looming so heavily on Americans on what does it mean for us as we enter into a new month?
		The House went home and the Senate went home and they would resume business as usual on Monday.
		So I think Democrats are using that.
		We've seen all over social media them saying, look, I'm walking around the hallways.
		I don't know if you've seen those videos.
		There's been a member saying no one's here.
		It's because Johnson's not making his members come in and try to work out a solution here.
		So I think Democrats are hoping they have the upper hand on those optics.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Dave Weigel, how do you look at Speaker Johnson's role in this, keeping House members home while things are at a stalemate back here?
dave weigel ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Johnson's made a couple of decisions, stuck to them, and put the onus on Democrats to reopen the government every single time.
		His public relations strategy is to have daily press conferences when the House is in pro forma session, get into the news, get their arguments out there, respond to questions, but not bring the House back.
		And it's not very imaginative.
		This is what Republicans did earlier in the year, vote through a CR in the House and refuse to come back, expecting Democrats to just be jammed in the Senate and vote on what they produce.
		The Johnson idea here is you bring the House back, what could happen?
		Maybe there's bipartisan support for some piecemeal funding measure.
		The caller was talking about military payments, something like that.
		That's usually popular that would pass.
		He's not doing that.
		He is sticking with the president's position on this, which is the hallmark of the Johnson speakership is he is a attendee of the president, doing what he thinks the White House wants, in touch with the White House.
		He has a few members like Kevin Kiley in California who have criticized this, but not many.
		In 30 odd days, they've not had any Republicans break rank and say, I'm getting hammered back home about this.
		They are generally saying, yes, let's jam Democrats.
		It's worked before.
		It'll work again.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Dave Weigel, let me follow up with that.
		We showed folks this morning, Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene expressing her concern.
		Senator Fetterman out of Pennsylvania expressing his.
		A lot of reaction towards that from the bases themselves.
		What do you think about the impact of that?
		Does it serve as a means of moving things along or is it just an irritant for those who are involved in the parties?
dave weigel ▲ ● ▼		It's more of the latter.
dave weigel ▲ ● ▼		And I think what was significant in the last week was you had half a dozen labor unions I mentioned earlier come out and urge Democrats to end the shutdown.
dan mccall ▲ ● ▼		Ending it now would mean no concessions, no reforms, nothing what they asked for.
dave weigel ▲ ● ▼		And the response from Democrats, including the DNC chair, who's the first union card holding leader of the DNC, was to say, no, we're going to hold out longer.
		And so you've not seen Marjorie Taylor Greene move the party in her direction.
		You've not seen Tom Matthews' criticism of the bill move anyone in his direction.
		Most, we're talking, you know, 215, 16 House Republicans are just standing patent doing what the Speaker and the president want.
		So very little movement, the pressure from members going rogue on that has really not done anything.
		Same with the Democrats.
		Fetterman has established himself among Democrats as somebody who will vote with them when it matters, but will criticize their strategy, including on Fox News.
		They don't love it.
		Democrats in the Congress don't love it, but he is not pulling other people along with him.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Mia's next.
		Mia in Maryland, Independent Line.
		Hi there.
		You're on with our guests.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
		In reference to the elections and this shutdown of the government, you know, I heard a congressman speaking the other day, and he was saying that they're not getting any pay raises.
		And, you know, so because people were calling them out because they're like, well, people are about to start starving because these food stamps have ended as of yesterday.
		You guys are going home on the weekends, which we just heard another caller say, We've got to have the only government where you're allowed to go home, continue to get paid while your own citizens are suffering with inflation and having a loss of supplements that you somehow brainwash a great number of our citizens into believing that are entitlements that we don't, you know, that people don't deserve.
		It is insane.
		And why any government workers would be furloughed or not getting a paycheck while Congress continues to get paid, continues to go home to their home states, is completely insane.
		It is completely insane.
		And if people don't wake up and start voting like they have since, forget voting your conscience, because we know that some people are easily manipulated.
		If people don't start voting with common sense, looking at people's records, paying attention to what politicians say and how they vote, we are never going to be able to vote out these pariahs that are destroying our country.
		I am so dumb.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Mia there and Marilyn, Dave Weigel, we'll start with you.
		You had said short term, not much impact, but look to next year at midterms, even more impact, no impact.
		What do you think?
dave weigel ▲ ● ▼		Oh, on shutdowns, the recent history of shutdowns is that they are not very well remembered a year after the fact.
		And you could write the ads that the Republicans are going to run next year right now.
		They're going to say, they've been saying Democrats have voted against troop funding.
		They voted to give health care to illegal immigrants.
		The litany, the 32nd ad that's already running against Mikey Sherrill in New Jersey, mentioned some of what she has done by not voting to extend the government's funding.
		But we did this in 2013, 2014.
		There was a shutdown.
		Democrats tried to make Republicans own it.
		They had a very bad midterm.
		Republicans won.
		And that also, the history of this, every shutdown, there is both more capacity by Congress to say, what can we do to ameliorate this, pass some bills, make it worse, more by the White House to say, how can we move money around, make this a little bit less painful, and more of a memory by their political strategists that voters will not remember this.
		The shutdown was happening in September 2026.
		Would it play out differently?
		Probably.
		But right now, I don't encounter many people on either side who think this is going to change how the parties are going to run next year and how it will be remembered.
		It will require if Democrats want to win, quote unquote, the shutdown in the long term, it'll probably require them a year of them attacking Republicans consistently and getting people to think, okay, Republicans are the party that cuts NAP benefits, and I'm against that.
		And if the same flipped Republicans, if they wanted to win it, it would be a year of hammering Democrats and saying everything they do is giving money to illegal immigrants, which is their message already.
		It's been their message under Trump for about nine years.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Dave Weigel is in New York City.
		We'll pivot a little bit, Dave Weigel, because New York City, Virginia, and New Jersey are going to be closely watched come Tuesday.
		Besides who wins, what's the importance of these races?
dave weigel ▲ ● ▼		For Democrats, the New Jersey and Virginia races, both states that they won in the presidential election, they want to come out of those with chits and say, this is the beginning of the resistance to the Trump administration.
		He has lost the consent of the government democracy suggested that he should change course.
		They're already saying that.
		If you listen to former President Obama's speeches over the last day in Virginia, New Jersey, that's part of their message.
		That's the message of the surrogates who are going after these Democratic events.
		The New York race is very different.
		If you're watching television in New York too, you see this really cannonblast of negative ads from anti-Zorhan Mamdani PACs.
		It looks a lot more like a Republican versus Democrat election instead of a Democrat, former Democrat and Republican election.
		And you saw Obama again, center him, talking to Zoran, letting it be known that he talked to Zorhan Mamdani and trying to own the idea if Momdani wins, that Democrats have figured out they need to work on affordability.
		So that is the thing they will say.
		Democrats at this moment assume that they will win both of these states' governors' races and Momdani will win in New York to finesse the Mamdani situation.
		They're going to say the country is still unaffordable.
		Trump didn't fulfill his campaign promises and voters just said so.
dan mccall ▲ ● ▼		Now, if they don't win some of these races, it's going to be a little bit more complicated.
dave weigel ▲ ● ▼		And I think there will be some immediate blame on the left wing of the party.
		That's already where they're starting to go.
		Immediate blame and saying we should have had a much more coherent message.
		And in New Jersey, for example, where Momdani has become a bit of an issue for Republicans, they'll say that I'm sure there'll be a conversation about the Democrats went too far left.
		That's not where most of them think the election is going to go.
		They think they're going to win.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Alex Cangitano, same question, but how's the White House watching these races?
alex gangitano ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think on Virginia and New Jersey, I think the White House was hopeful that they would be a little closer, that the Republicans there could have done a little bit better.
		I don't think they thought that they would necessarily be able to win a state like a New Jersey race, but Virginia, maybe they were hopeful there.
		Now I think we're hoping that the margins, they're hoping that the margins are a little more narrow.
		And I think they'll look at those two races as we either need to step up our game.
		The White House is really confident that the popularity of Trump, although it's a popularity among his base, but that that's all Republicans need in order to do well in the midterms.
		And I think these two races will show them that's not all Republican.
		Riding the Trump coattails didn't work for his first midterm during his first term, and it might not work in this one either.
		So I think that will be a bit of a wake-up call for them.
		I think, though, the Mamdani race is a really important one for Republicans because they're very eager to paint the Democratic Party as the far left extremist.
		However, they've been doing that over the last year.
		They've been using the issue of Democrats want to give health care to illegal Americans as part of that narrative.
		I think then him winning in New York City gives them that opening to say, this is what the future of the party is going to look like.
		Forget about someone that is more politically aligned with a Mikey Sherrill.
		Democrats are all moving towards that.
		We've even seen them use some messaging around that Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez is actually the leader of the party, not Senator Schumer.
		You know, some very, or not, you know, Jeffries.
		They're trying to paint that as, you know, the party's getting taken over by some folks who think the same way as the potential future mayor of New York City.
		So I think it gives them some fodder there.
		I'm not sure how that will play.
		We are a year out from midterms, but I think they're almost excited to have him win and be able to use that against Democrats.
		It's really interesting to watch.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		We heard Dave Weigel talk about former President Obama on the trail, President Trump's in Florida.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		What's the message there?
alex gangitano ▲ ● ▼		It's been very interesting, especially in Virginia, a state that was maybe the most possible for them to win that race.
		He's really distanced himself from the Republican candidate there.
		I think maybe wasn't the candidate who they thought could be, you know, the person that Trump wants to rally behind, like a Yunkin was more friendly with him.
		So that's been interesting that he's not using his star power at all to help any of these races.
		We've seen the New York, the New Jersey candidate align himself with Trump really closely, but we still haven't seen the president want to help him.
		So I think it's been telling also that maybe they aren't telling the president, go step in and help here because they're seeing these are two races that we could potentially lose.
		And maybe let's distance ourselves a little bit.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		This is Betty.
		Betty is in Kentucky.
		Democrats line.
		You're on one of their guests.
unidentified		Hello.
		I blame Trump completely, totally, 100% for all of it.
		He is taking over our country and people are sitting back and letting him.
		I'm so proud of the Democrats that stand up for him.
		I saw this in another country and then he took over his dictatorship and Trump is doing his best and doing very good.
		Anybody that knows he's tearing down the White House and he tells everybody everybody's dick to donate and they're not donating.
		They're taking it off their income tax.
		And we ended up paying for it again.
		So, I mean, get wake up, America.
		We're headed for dictatorship bad, and you ain't got enough sense to know it because these guys and Republicans don't have a backbone.
		They're not going to but him in any way.
		They're going to do whatever he tells them to do because they're scared of him.
		Money talks.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Betty in Kentucky.
		Sidebar discussion.
		How is the White House managing the ballroom story?
alex gangitano ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the ballroom story.
		They are running with it.
		They think, no, this is a great move.
		We're not worried about the media presence or the media backlash.
		We did see them more present, though, on social media.
		A lot of the aides pushing out the narrative of, you know, we saw over history, a lot of other presidents have come in.
		Truman built the balcony, have come in and made their touch on the White House.
		This is just the same as that.
		They also, as our caller brought up, are, you know, leaning into, they gave out a list of here's companies that have donated to the ballroom renovation and the president himself, we don't know how much money he's given, but really trying to make clear that this is not the American public paying for it.
		So I think they still think this was all a very good idea.
		They're not worried about the optics of it.
		I do wonder how much of it was a Washington story that, I mean, it was very evident when we all would go to work at the White House and there was a ton of machines and dust and debris and everything.
		And also how it wasn't very clear that they were going to completely demolish it in order to build up.
		And now it is completely demolished and before they start building.
		So I think objects-wise, there was some concern how much we saw them on social media talking about the history of White House renovations.
		But I do think they stand by that this was a great idea and that Trump is a builder at heart and that this he will go down in history as somebody who added this great thing to the ballrock.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Dave Weigel, how much of this is just an inside Washington story, do you think?
dave weigel ▲ ● ▼		Hard to say, although the first polling on this did find most of the country against it and for complicated reasons, but it's a normal experience for people to have demolition going on near them and not like it, to not like change if it's not going to be promised to be better what they had.
		The East Wing was not the most hallowed and beloved part of the White House, but the using the word optics again, the idea the administration is doing this, even with private funding, some of which it does not disclose during a shutdown has emboldened Democrats and has not been that popular.
		There are supporters of the president who like that he's doing this.
		There are people watching this and saying this seems like a lot of work on a building that most Americans are never going to get to see on a design that the president himself approved of while more important things are happening.
		And the other thing I would say is Democrats are looking at this and they do imagine themselves being back in power at some point, looking at a president that just kind of blows past the rules that Congress has set up to do this sort of renovation.
		It usually is a complicated process.
		There's funding passed in the House and the Senate.
		There's a commission that works with both the Congress and the president.
		Watching Trump blow past that, that is the umpteenth example of something they're thinking they might want to do if they get if they get the presidency again.
nate fischer ▲ ● ▼		Not the renovation, but not going to all those stakeholders and slowing themselves down, just acting.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Semaphores, Dave Weigel in New York, Alex Gantitano of Politico joining us here.
		Gerard is joining us from Ohio.
		Republican line, you're on.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Yes, I see this government shutdown is centered around the health care issue.
		My proposal is that everybody pay 10% for health care.
		If you're getting benefits, you get 10% less.
		If you're paying into Social Security, you get 10% less.
		If you have a pension net, you pay 10%.
		Everybody pays 10% and covers the cost of healthcare.
		And it's not a free item anymore.
		It's everybody pays for it.
		And I'm proud to be in Ohio.
		And my senator, John Houston, is not taking his senatorial pay while the shutdown is going on.
		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Dave Weigel, as far as the idea of Republicans coming up with some type of health care solution, you talked about this earlier, and Democrats have consistently said, well, where's your plan?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Where are Republicans on this overall as far as changing aspects of health care?
dave weigel ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can tell that they didn't want to run on it in 2024.
		That says a lot.
		Really, since the Republican Party failed to repeal the Affordable Care Act in 2017, it has moved off their agenda.
		They are making changes to it, significant changes, and that's some of the text of this fight right now.
		For example, they're rolling back subsidies that were part of the kind of post-Supreme Court version of the Affordable Care Act.
		They're trying to reduce the number of people who use Medicaid, expanded Medicaid in the states.
		That is an attack on the Affordable Care Act.
		But those are both things that will move people off of health insurance onto not having health insurance.
		And there really isn't a Republican plan.
		I'm not trying to be unfair to Republicans because they do have pieces of legislation.
		There are members who have plans.
		There's not a popular Republican health care plan they like to run on.
		They didn't run on it last cycle.
		They didn't run on it in the 2022 midterms.
		They're tugging their collars a bit when they're asked about it right now because the Democratic plan for health care, in short, is raise taxes mostly on the rich to make health care cheaper and add people to Medicaid.
		The Republican plan is a private sector idea that would be more expensive.
		And you've already seen Republicans talking about bringing back high-risk pools.
		Definite eight years ago flashback for all of us who covered the effort to repeal the ACA.
		They moved away from the high-risk pools because they were not politically popular and they started to run on other issues.
		So a Republican party that fights the midterms over a health care plan versus one that just goes back to the table and keeps pounding it about immigrants.
		That party, they're very comfortable running elections on.
		The healthcare party, they have really lost their sea legs and have not tried to get them back in eight years.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		We've heard Republicans say to Democrats, let's have the conversation about it.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		But is there anything moving forward, Alex Gantital, about making something out of that conversation?
alex gangitano ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		I think Republicans right now don't quite have the appetite for it because I don't think they have a plan.
		I remember when Trump was running in this cycle, he said he had the ideas of a plan.
		They would look, I think, to Trump and say, if you guys want to put something out, we will support you.
		But there really isn't something right now.
		And I do think there is a question because Obamacare has been such a focus of this president from his first presidency and trying to get rid of it.
		How much of it is the fact that he doesn't like that Obama's name is on it and that's his signature policy of his predecessor versus I have this great idea of how to overhaul it.
		So I think Republicans, until the White House comes out with here's our concrete agenda for how we're going to overhaul the health care system, they're not interested in moving forward with even talks because they want to look to Trump if he wants to do something himself.
		Sure, they'll be supportive of it.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Harvey in California, Independent Line.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
		Good morning.
		I'd like to take a broader perspective.
		First of all, what's happening here is the wealthy oligarchs, whatever, don't want to pay for the poor's health.
		That's wrong.
		They want to take away food and all this.
		Okay.
		The big picture is that we've fouled our nest, that climate change is real, and that 20% of 50 million deaths in the year come from air pollution and a million to 2 million in the United States.
		This is Lancet magazine, 200 years out of London.
		And the cost of that is $10 to $12 million social costs per, that's equal to the whole GDP of the country.
		We can live on our solar income.
		And we got to Elon Musk's interview on Rogan 2054, about a year ago, 30 to 35 minutes.
		He said, 100 square miles, we can do everything in the United States with solar.
		And Rogan said, it was surprising.
		Is that swords?
		Yeah, with storage.
		That's 25% of humanity's load.
		Enough is enough.
		And this is a continuing coup.
		We should have stopped it five years ago.
		And I'm outraged.
		And I got severe health problems.
		I'm a disabled union pipeliner from up in Alaska, exposed to asbestos and all kinds of other crap.
		And I've been on Medi-Medi and all this, and they're taking it off and losing EBT.
		This is outrageous.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Harvey there.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Outrage of Harvey, but I suppose outrage on a lot of fronts that not only the White House is hearing, but in the politics world as well.
alex gangitano ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think there are a lot of conversations over how long we can keep the American public appeased with the fact that this is all happening.
		You know, eventually something's got to give here.
		Someone's going to have to blink.
		And we thought the pressures of losing the affordable care subsidies, the pressures of potentially losing SNAP benefits would cause somebody to sit down and say, negotiations need to happen.
		We need to reopen this government.
		It didn't happen.
		November 1st has come and gone, and we are still in the government shutdown.
		And both parties are still waiting to see who blinks first.
		I will say it did sound like there was progress on Capitol Hill last week.
		Foon even pointed to the potential of progress with some moderate senator Democrats trying, you know, wanting to maybe reopen the government, especially with the promise of talks moving forward if they were to about health care.
		But then the president came out with the idea of eliminating the filibuster.
		I don't know how much that changed some moderate Democrats' ability or desire to want to help and reopen the government.
unidentified		Dave Weigel, anything to add?
dave weigel ▲ ● ▼		No, I think we've explained how ridiculous the situation is over the course of this conversation.
		I'm looking this week to see after elections how the conversation changes.
		But again, both parties have different sets of data, different ideas of how this politically plays out.
		I would look for more groups and more people who say they are personally being hurt.
		They need this to end, which does, I'd say, help Republicans in calling for a quick end without any concessions more than it helps Democrats.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		One more matter of politics than electoral politics for both of you.
		Dave Weigel, we talked about the governor's races.
		We talked about the mayor's.
		Proposition 50 in California deals with the state, but what do you think about the larger impact depending on the outcome?
dave weigel ▲ ● ▼		The impact is already being felt because Gavin Newsom, the governor, took a very big risk.
		When Texas began to move on Donald Trump's suggestion to draw five new seats for Republicans, eliminate five Democratic seats, he acted the only way California could do that was his ballot measure.
		The first polling on the ballot measure was not how they were going to word it and not very popular.
		Every poll in the last month has shown them winning it.
		And also, we were speaking to the president before.
		He's not been involved in the New Jersey and Virginia races to a large extent.
		He's not involved at all in California.
		And money that Republicans thought would show up did not show up.
		There was half a minute talking about Kevin McCarthy, the former speaker, whether he would put money in.
		It didn't happen.
		So it's already affected the Democrats.
		This will be seen as an example of, I was talking about fighting earlier, a Democrat fighting Trump in an effective way.
		And you've seen some impacts around the country in Virginia, again, before the election, without much worry that it was going to backfire, Virginia Democrats started to move a constitutional amendment that they could vote on next year that would allow them to draw out Republican districts.
		The impact of this is Democrats saying we are on the mat.
		We're not sure how to resist the president in D.C., but we can resist him in states.
		Now, if there is an unfavorable ruling for the Voting Rights Act next year in Louisiana versus Cal A case, and Republicans go back and draw new districts, the whole map is in disarray.
		But at the moment, the impact is that Democrats look at what was seemingly hopeless for them, Republicans going and drawing new seats in red states and say, here is some way we can fight back.
		All it requires is just giving up a decade or so of being the party that supports independent commissions, taking politicians out of the process.
		They are now looking at a much more unforgiving political situation and becoming a little unforgiving themselves.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		The White House's interest in not only what's happening in California, but the larger issue.
alex gangitano ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's been really interesting to see, as Dave mentioned, the president has not been involved in California.
		We know he has a personal foe in Gavin Newsom, and it is interesting that he doesn't want to take on Newsome just because it's Newsome.
		I've been talking to folks around the White House.
		It's been for two reasons.
		One, the president's not getting involved in trying to take down Prop 50 and it's kind of accepted that it's going to happen because Republicans still think they have the upper hand in terms of the redistricting fight.
		That sure Democrats can pick up five seats there because we got Texas, maybe North Carolina, wherever else.
		And second, because the president thinks he has the upper hand on Newsom on other issues like crime and immigration.
		So he doesn't need to take on this redistricting fight.
		But it is just an interesting one because of this personal issue they've had.
		We see Newsom on mocking the president on his own X account that does get under the White House's skin.
		All caps, Texas.
		All caps.
		And that the president doesn't want to get involved with this.
		But I do think Republicans are feeling very good about their redistricting fights and are thinking of California as sure, let that one go.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		You can find the work of Alex Gangitano at politico.com and Dave Weigel's work at semaphore.com.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		To both of you, thanks for giving us your time today.
alex gangitano ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
dave weigel ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Later in the program, we're going to talk about how the war between Russia and Ukraine is affecting the borders of some countries.
		Jill Doherty, author and former CN, and Moscow Bureau, joining us for that discussion.
		But first, it's going to be an open forum.
		And if you want to participate, 202-748-8000 for Democrats, Republicans, 202-748-8001.
		And Independents, 2027-8002.
		We had the chance, C-SPAN cameras had the chance to visit a local food bank here near Washington, D.C., not only to see the impact of the shutdown, but how local residents are being impacted by it.
		We'll show you what our cameras caught.
unidentified		So we are in southeast Washington, D.C. at the Urban Outreach Ministry Center.
		And what's happening here today is we are doing a special distribution for the federal workers and contractors just for them.
		And they're here to receive a box of shelf-stable goods and a box of fresh fruits and vegetables.
		We have been seeing an increase kind of steadily going up.
		And now that SNAP is, you know, looking at has been reduced and possibly being canceled here soon.
		We have seen just a lot of other people coming in and just really looking for some way to provide for their families when it comes to food.
		They're all federal workers that are coming through today.
		I am being demobilized from FEMA because of the federal cutbacks.
		I'm a civil engineer.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And you're for love now.
unidentified		I am sitting at home, sitting at home, sitting at home, twittling my thumbs.
		Someone sent me the information about this food drive, a Food bank, and I sit into the other people that I know that are sitting at home.
		My name is Officer Jason Medina.
		I'm the 6th District Outreach Coordinator.
		And we're out here with Pastor Will Strowman from Urban Outreach.
		We've been a partner of his for over a decade since I've been helping out with the outreach functions here in 6D.
		And we've always supported him.
		We was always out here with him.
		And when the situation occurred with the government shutdown, he became a partner with the Capital Area Food Bank to grow his program and to ensure that the federal workers and contractors were supported as well as military personnel.
		So when we heard of this, we immediately jumped on board to ensure that we were here to support him in any capacity, whether it was our presence, bringing out the cadets, the recruit officers from the academy to help support this effort to engage with the workers and tell them we're here to, you know, for their benefit to make sure that they're okay.
		Definitely here where we're at in the Marshall Heights community.
		This is a major community that needs that support.
		So yeah, over the years that I've been here, it's kind of increased in some ways in the sense of making sure that the families over here are getting the simple resources, whether it's hygiene kits, food, non-perishables, perishables.
		We definitely want to, we partner with many of our organizations to ensure that this is a resource that they have.
		We have a turkey drive that's coming up.
		We're going to be partnering up with the council member, and this is to support these communities.
		So if they call, we're here to answer that.
		Yeah, thank you.
		Washington Journal continues.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Again, if you want to participate in open forum, you have a chance to do so.
		202-748-8000 for Democrats, 202-748-8001 for Republicans.
		And Independents, 202-748-8002.
		Tom is in Ohio.
		Democrats line.
		Tom, just to let you know, our guests have gone, but you're in Open Forum.
		Tom, go ahead.
unidentified		Well, hello.
		It's nice to speak to you.
		My comment is there was a photograph of President Trump with Jeffries and Schumer.
		And the first thing Trump did was hand them Trump 2028 hats.
		They're sitting on the desk in the picture.
		How do you negotiate with somebody that is such a juvenile that would do that?
		That's first of all.
		Second of all, a year ago, our country was doing great, especially in Ohio.
		It was just moving along.
penned patriot in vegas ▲ ● ▼		And then Trump gets in there and everything is right down the tubes.
unidentified		And then one more thing.
penned patriot in vegas ▲ ● ▼		How come the big beautiful bill was passed with 51 votes, but we need 60 to end this debacle?
unidentified		So anyway, thanks.
		I appreciate your G-Spam.
		Thanks a lot.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Spring, Texas, Republican line.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Hi, you're on.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Oh, thank you, sir.
		Okay, I see that, you know, this blame game can go on forever.
		However, I'm thinking one sure way to get everybody happy.
		The Democrats are wanting to litigate the ACA before the government, you know, before they'll vote yes to open the government.
		President Trump is telling the Republicans to use the nuclear option, which they are reluctant to do.
		They don't want to do that.
		But if the Republicans go to the Democrats and say, look, if we're forced to use the nuclear option, all discussions of ACA are off the table.
		That way they might think, well, the only way they're going to litigate it is if we vote yes to open the government.
		Both of them will be kind of on the hook.
		Republicans don't want to go with the nuclear option.
		And I don't think they'll be in any position.
		They won't be in any form of their attitude won't be right towards discussion that discussing the ACA.
		They're not going to be happy about using the nuclear option.
		And that might work.
		You know, I think about it.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Cynthia, in Spring, Texas, ABC offers a little instructive site or a story when it takes a look at the filibuster, asking the question, what is it?
		The long-standing rule allows any one senator to block or delay action on a bill or other matter by extending debate.
		It requires 60 votes or three-fifths of the Senate to end debate and advance legislation to a final vote when it then just needs a simple majority to pass.
		The filibuster's unlimited debate rule first emerged in the 19th century.
		In 1917, the Senate adopted Rule 22 that made it possible to break a filibuster with a closure vote, giving rise to the modern-day filibuster.
		It's a tool that empowers the minority party but has frustrated majorities for decades.
		That is ABC's site.
		If you want to learn more about the filibuster, how it works, Leonard in North Dakota, Independent Line.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		Yes.
		Marjorie Taylor Green kind of hit it on the head.
		I had a similar experience with my health care.
		I had a small construction company in Michigan.
		Back when Obamacare passed, I had called at Blue Cross New Shield trying to get insurance for my employees.
		They basically laughed at me, not saying I could never afford it.
		I think the insurance companies and hospitals being able to just have government money at will at any cost, they just, whatever the bill was, the government was throwing money their way, trying to cut people out of the system like me.
		And it's socialism and the capitalism are clashing right now.
		And I don't think any amount of money is going to save the system because greed, people just want more and more.
		You can never print enough money.
		But hopefully people stand up, work together.
		People are going to have to take care of one another.
		The system, the government, the money's not going to do it.
		It's going to be humanity and the love for each other that's going to help us survive through this.
		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Let's go to DJ, DJ and Maryland, Democrats line.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I'm calling this morning in regards to the shutdown and health care mainly.
		We keep talking about the subsidies that were given from COVID.
		Can we look back at COVID and how bad it was?
		Maybe all these people that denied COVID should send back all those checks that were issued to them.
		Can we look at how many government employees have been fired since the beginning of the year?
		Not to mention the military members that have been either demoted or retired.
		So with the shutdown, when they all go back to work, how many government employees are we actually going to have?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		DJ and Maryland, let's go to Dennis.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Dennis joins us from Indiana, Republican line.
unidentified		Yeah, I would just like to remind the American people that it was the Democrats that shoved the Unaffordable Care Act down our throats.
		And as Republicans, we tried to tell the people at the time what this was about.
		And here we see they've made it so it's unaffordable.
		They're just trying to force socialized medicine down our throat.
		And now, to do it, Chuck Schumer wants to starve innocent children to death.
		This is Chuck Schumer's fault.
		Plain and simple, he is the only Let's Hear from Kenny.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Kenny is in Georgia, Independent Line.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Kenny.
unidentified		So the Republicans don't want to get rid of the filibuster because they're afraid if the Democrats take power, they're going to pass Medicare for all, pre-public college, and universal pre-K, which are good things that I support.
		And so I blame the Republicans.
		And that's my comic.
		Thank you.
		Bye-bye.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Brian, up next, Brian in South Carolina, Republican line.
unidentified		Yes, I just, I want to talk about the people that were on a while ago, the reporters.
		I wish that they would just take a camera and a microphone and go to the nearest, not in Washington, D.C., but in their local cities and towns in this country.
		Go to the DSS, Department of Social Services.
		If they want to see where government money and state money is going, they have a line for Spanish-speaking people.
		They have a line for English-speaking people.
		And I'm just going to say that if Democrats get back into office again, it won't be 20 million.
		It'll be 100 million illegals will be brought in next time.
		So think about it when you go vote.
		Thank you very much.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		That's Brian there in South Carolina.
		We had our previous guest talk about some of these races that will be at the front and center on Tuesday.
		The Site Real Clear Politics provides an average of recent polling to give you a sense of where that race is at when they look at the New Jersey governor's race between Republican Jack Chitterelli, Democrat Mikey Sherrill, with those combination of polls.
		Cheryl with a 3.3% lead, at least with the combination of these polls going into Election Day on Tuesday.
		The Virginia governor's race with the Republican Lieutenant Governor Willsom Earl Sears versus Abigail Spanberger.
		When you look at those combined polls, Abigail Spanberger with a 7.6% lead combining those polls.
		And the Lieutenant Governor's race, which has become of interest in days because of Jay Jones, the Democrat versus Jason Miares, the current Attorney General in Virginia, it's Jason Miares leading with a 3.5% lead when you look at those combinations of polls going into Tuesday.
		And as we heard our guest, Dave Weigel talk about the New York City's mayor race, Mr. Mamdani, leading with a 14.5% lead, at least taking a look at those polls.
		Again, be part of C-SPAN's coverage come Tuesday from this program and throughout the day into the evening, an analysis, and we'll give you results.
		We'll let you have a chance to comment on these various races and the electoral process as well.
		Look for that coming on Election Day this coming Tuesday.
		Let's hear from Steve.
		Steve is in Illinois, Democrats line.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
		I would like to mention that Mr.
		Schumer is sticking up for people because in the big, beautiful lie that is trying to be duped over the people of the country is the thing to make the wealthiest people have even more of a tax break, as they did in Trump's first term, and to let it be permanent forever.
		We should be paying for making the billionaires trillionaires?
		I don't think so.
		And I think before anything happens, that should be taken out and the people protected for all the other rights that are being taken away by Trump and his cronies.
		I thank you and good morning.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Next, Gary joins us from Texas, Independent Line.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello, thank you for taking my call.
		I'd like to maybe expand on what the last person said.
		And the Republicans run around going, why won't the Democrats vote for this clean, continuous resolution?
		They voted for the last three.
		Why won't they vote for this one?
		It's exactly the same.
		There's a big difference.
		The Republicans shoved the big, beautiful lie down our throats, which took health care away from millions and millions of Americans.
		Yet they call this exactly the same clean, continuous resolution.
		They're lying.
		That's all there is.
		That's the simplest way of saying it.
		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Joining us from Mississippi, this is Janet, Republican line.
unidentified		Jeanette, yes.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Jeanette, I'm sorry.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Okay.
		Well, I think that they should not be taking the food stamps or nothing from the kids because kids has got, I understand, you know, an adults and stuff has got to, you know, not, you know, they won't, you know, be able to eat or whatever, but they could hustle for things, but kids can't and everything.
		So, you know, I think they need to put the food stamps back on like normal and open the White House or whatever and all that.
		Because, you know, I don't think Trump, I always thought Trump was in it, but he ain't.
		I don't care.
		I don't know who's doing this, but, you know, they don't need to take it out on the kids, you know, and stuff like that.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		So they need to do something.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		That's Jeanette there in Mississippi.
		If you go to the front page of the New York Times, a story, it's a lead story focusing on what they describe the liberal justices of the Supreme Court.
		Here's the headline.
		Liberal justices are split over Trump era strategy.
		This is by Jody Cantor writing.
		She says, for years, as the court has moved right, Justice Kagan has agonized over whether to be more confrontational confidence, say, confidante, and has mostly concluded that to be effective, she must be careful about rocking the boat.
		But in recent months, Justice Kagan's liberal colleague, Justice Kantanji Brown Jackson, has started warning the public that the boat is sinking.
		The story going on to say, ever since Justice Jackson's arrival in 2022, friction has been building between her and Justice Soda Mayor and Kagan, who are more aligned strategically and between her and the rest of the court, according to more than a dozen associates of the justices, including both liberals and conservatives.
		They spoke on condition of anonymity in order to share sensitive details about closely held conversations.
		The story adding, the three liberal justices declined to comment, but increasingly the tensions are spilling out in opinions, including the most important case of last term.
		Justices Jackson and Amy Coney Barrett dueled so harshly that some liberal observers feared that Justice Jackson had alienated Justice Barrett, a key swing vote.
		More there on this lead story from the New York Times if you want to read it online.
		Let's hear from Dave, Dave and Frederick, Maryland, Democrats line.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		Yes.
		All I could say is Republicans are total hypocrites.
		I mean, they talk about anti-Semitism, yet the January 6th folks that were in jail were let out.
		And many of those were oath keepers, part of the oath keepers and proud boys.
		Now, you tell me if they're not anti-Semites, okay?
		But they are roaming the streets.
		They're criminals.
		They should be in jail.
		And, you know, just the hypocrisy is ridiculous.
		I mean, Trump is building a ballroom.
		Meanwhile, kids are going hungry.
		Folks don't have to pay these insane premiums on health insurance.
		They idolize this guy, Charlie Crist, who preached hatred.
		And I'm not saying that any man should die the way he did, but what he was preaching was talking about was total, total hatred.
		So, you know, what are you going to do?
		You know, the country is in a mess and our democracy is being attacked.
		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		New York is next.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		This is Mary, Independent Line.
unidentified		Yes.
		Hi, good morning.
		I thank you for this opportunity.
		Basically, my feeling is that we have to be very careful.
		We have to consider what someone does as opposed to what someone says.
		And the OMB director who was there, Russell Voigt, under the first term presidency and was one of the masterminds of Project 25, states very clearly what the intention is for health care, future health care in the United States.
		They do not believe that health care is a right.
		They believe it is a privilege.
		They are looking to gut so many of the policies that were enacted over the years, including the fact that insurance companies, aside from Obamacare, but the marketplace insurance companies, that they will no longer have to cover things like pre-existing conditions.
		And I think part of our problem is in the United States is we are all complicit in one way or another.
		I don't think it is Democrats versus Republicans.
		I think it's either a negativity or a chosen ignorance to not want to know what all the facts are, accept those facts, and then go forward and vote and vote in politicians who truly have the best interests of the majority of the American public at heart.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Thank you so much.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		That's Mary there in Jericho, New York.
		I do want to let you know that right after this program, it's our new C-SPAN program, Ceasefire, which brings together people from differing political stripes to talk about issues this week.
		We sit down with Democratic Congressman Scott Peters of California and Utah Republican Senator John Curtis.
		They'll discuss several pressing issues, including the government shutdown, the future of health care, and ongoing foreign policy challenges.
		And as part of the show, you'll also get to hear from Democratic strategist Anna Greenberg and Republican strategist Brendan Buck, who will take a look at some of the top stories of the week, including the president's recent trip overseas.
		That's on Ceasefire.
		It's right after this program.
		If you want to stay with us and watch it, you can also watch it on our app, C-SPANNO, and on our website at c-span.org.
		Let's hear from Stephen.
		Stephen in Massachusetts, Republican line.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
unidentified		How are you, sir?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Fine, thank you.
unidentified		I have a suggestion.
		I hope everyone would listen to this, even the White House.
		You know the Congress and the Senate, right?
		Okay.
		You have, my opinion, it should be all the time, 50% split, House and Senate.
		That way, when they vote, the Republicans go to the Democrats, the Democrats will go to the Republicans when they vote.
		Now, think about this.
		If there was a 50-50 split in the Senate, there'd never be a shutdown because you already have two Democrats and one Independent that don't want to shut down the government.
		And if it is a tie, you know, they could fight it out, see who can get back and forth.
		You always have the vice president come in and do the tiebreaker.
		That's just a suggestion.
		And, you know, maybe the White House is listening.
		I think that would be a good idea.
		That's my opinion.
		Thank you very much for your time.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Stephen in Massachusetts, Crystal up next in Philadelphia.
		Democrats line.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello, hello, hello, America.
		Look, I'm sorry if it's insulting, but to say that these smooth-brained mega-Republican suckers in America are so un-American.
		A gala at the White House, back when Obama here was voted on, the Republicans only voted for it if Obama put a sun down kind of date on it, and it was 2025.
		That's why the Democrats went to continue the credits.
		Like the president wants to continue the credits for, you know, corporations and billionaires.
		It doesn't make any sense what's going on with this.
		And please, Democrats, Schumer, Jeffries, don't cave in.
		And it's only that I'm on SNAP, but that's okay.
		I already bought coffee and stuff.
		I saw this stuff coming.
		And the folks, these red states that think they were going to be fixing, you know, fixing the right, the left, or making fun of people, now you're in the boat.
		Hello.
		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Jimmy up next.
		Jimmy's in Georgia, Independent Line.
		You're on.
		Go ahead on this open forum.
unidentified		Good morning, Pedro.
unidentified		How are you today?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		Thank you.
		I want to say, well, first of all, the government shutdown is not really affecting me that much.
		I just checked, and the Great Smoky Mountain National Park is open today, and I plan on visiting.
		And if it's closed, well, the website says it's open, but if it is closed, I was wondering, well, who's going to kick me out if I jump the fence and go anyway?
		That's not why I called.
		I want to talk about something that's bothering me called the two-state solution.
		Now, when you hear the term two-state solution, it makes people think that Israel is one state and Palestine is the other state.
		But Palestine is not a state.
		Look at a map.
		There are three states.
		There's Israel, there's Gaza, and there is the West Bank.
willie nelson ▲ ● ▼		And the probability that the Gaza and the West Bank reunite is smaller than the chance that West Virginia and Virginia reunite and become one state.
unidentified		They're not going to be Gaza and they're not going to be Palestine.
willie nelson ▲ ● ▼		There's going to be one state in Gaza and the other state in the West Bank.
unidentified		The two-state solution is not going to work in the Middle East for the same reason it did not work in India.
		They're not two states.
		They're three states.
		So please, when you hear the term two-state solution, say no.
		A three-state solution might work.
		Okay.
		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Douglas in Connecticut, Republican line.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
unidentified		Hi there.
		Good morning.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		Basically, you know, this whole hullabaloo about the shutdown, I mean, most people look at it as a negative thing or something.
		It's just an opportunity.
		It's not something that they're doing just to harm everybody in general.
		It's an opportunity that they've taken to put us in this position.
		And the reason I think why is it starts at the top of the government from the White House down to the bottom.
		They're all working together just to do their thing.
		And the trouble is with the politics of this country today, you need to eliminate that.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Well, you said it's an opportunity, an opportunity to do what?
unidentified		There's an opportunity that they're taking to put our country in this position, this debacle.
		I don't think it's someone's fault.
		Everybody says it's the Republicans' fault or the Democrats' fault.
		I look at it not as a fault, but as an opportunity that they've been given and they've taken full control of.
		We let them do this to us.
		And it starts from the administration, no matter who it is in the White House.
		This could have been fixed years ago.
		And now American people are suffering.
		The ones that are working are getting paid.
		The people that are starving, the veterans, and everybody else.
		The only way out of this, I believe, in my opinion, is to have an administration.
		Hopefully this administration, many have tried.
		We need term limits to stop this rollaway train.
		Okay.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Charles in Ohio.
		Democrats line.
		Last call.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Hey, Pedro.
		This is Charles.
		I just wanted to say, you know, people are hurting.
		I don't care who's at fault for this shutdown, but I'll tell you who's not at fault, these kids that are going to go hungry.
		So, you know, I heard a caller earlier say, you know, he's going to the Smoky Mountains.
		And, well, how about you don't go?
		And you go down to the inner city to one of these grocery stores or the dollar store and show these people some love that are hurting right now because the kids ain't at fault and we need to take care of our children.
		And I heard a caller earlier compare the Democrats to Hamas.
		Well, say that to my face.
		I wish somebody would, Pedro.
		I've had about enough.
		I love this country and I appreciate you, Pedro.
		Keep doing what you're doing.
		God bless America.
		Okay.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Charles, the last call on this open forum.
		Thanks to those of you who participated.
		Coming up a discussion with Jill Doherty.
		She is an author and expert on Russia, former Moscow Bureau Chief for CNN, recently back from the region to take a look what's happening on the borders of various countries and to tell us about it.
		And you can answer your questions as well.
		You can take a conversation with Jill Doherty up next when Washington Journal continues.
unidentified		Watch America's Book Club, C-SPAN's bold new original series.
		Today with our guest Pulitzer Prize winner, Stacey Schiff, author of biographies, including Ben Franklin, Samuel Adams, and Cleopatra.
		She joins our host, renowned author and civic leader David Rubinstein.
		So writing a second book on Franklin, you must admire him.
david rubenstein ▲ ● ▼		I assume you don't want to write two books on somebody you don't admire, but you do admire him.
stacy schiff ▲ ● ▼		I feel as if he is in all ways admirable in so many ways.
		Just the essential DNA of America.
		His voice is the voice of America, literally.
unidentified		Watch America's Book Club with Stacey Schiff today at 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific.
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		Washington Journal continues.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Joining us now is Jill Doherty.
		She's the author of the book, My Russia, What I Saw Inside the Kremlin, and a former Moscow Bureau chief for CNN, just recently back to take a look at some of the things that are going on there.
		Ms. Doherty, good morning.
jill dougherty ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Pedro.
		And, you know, I was just thinking, listening to the previous segment, in my line of work, dealing with Russia, the former Soviet Union, we talk about civil society.
		And a lot of people say, what is civil society?
		And that is exactly the example of it.
		You know, people, Republicans, Democrats, Independents, whatever, call in and participate.
		And I was really impressed and just really glad to be here.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for that.
		And they're going to call in and talk to you directly, especially about this recent trip that you took overseas.
		What was the purpose, especially in the larger umbrella under what's happening between Russia and Ukraine?
jill dougherty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, I had been thinking for quite a while about, if you just think of the map, the western border of Russia.
		So that includes a lot of countries that are, if you look at the map, you can start in the Baltics, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, then you come down to Poland, then of course Ukraine, which is in the crosshairs right now with the war, and then on kind of politically, geopolitically, not necessarily geographically, Hungary, which is a really important country to watch.
		And then Romania and Moldova.
		And they all kind of, you know, come around the bottom there, hugging the bottom of Ukraine.
		So I decided to go there.
		And it's, you know, it's a lot of territory.
		It was kind of a hop, skip, and a jump.
		But I wanted to talk to people and also actually see the border.
		You know, there's a border in many of those countries that used to exist years ago and really up until like, I don't know, before the full-scale invasion, where people kind of cross back and forth.
		And to a certain extent they still do.
		But that border is being really built up.
		And that's why I wanted to see it, especially Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia.
		Latvia and sorry, Latvia, Lithuania, and Poland.
		So Latvia and Poland have borders with Belarus, which of course is an ally of Russia.
		And then you have Lithuania having a border with actually Russia, little piece of it that's called Kaliningrad.
		And it was really an incredible, we can talk about details, but it was very sobering to see that border with my own eyes.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		You provided us with pictures as well, including a picture in Poland with the head of the border control, well, in Latvia with the head of the border control and immigration services.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		We're showing folks the picture, but when it comes to the larger issue of migration, how has that dynamic changed?
jill dougherty ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was one big takeaway that I, there were many, but that was really a big takeaway because, you know, what is happening now is Russia obviously is waging a war in Ukraine, but it's also waging what they call a gray zone hybrid war against the West in Europe.
		So what they are doing is they are, the Russian government in coordination with international criminal groups are inducing people who want to get to Western Europe.
		Let's say you are, and these are the countries that are very actively involved now, countries in Africa, especially Somalia and Afghanistan, people who really want to get to the West.
		They have no jobs.
		It's a war-torn environment, et cetera.
		So they can go online and find ways of getting, number one, to Russia, then to Minsk, which is in Belarus, and then they are taken to the border, especially in Latvia and Poland.
		And it's what's called weaponizing migrants.
		So these may be, you know, innocent people.
		They're almost all young men in very good shape.
		We're not talking about women.
		We're not talking about children.
		And we're not really talking about starving people.
		This is people who have some money because they pay those what you would call traffickers to get there.
		And so when I went to the border, let's say in Latvia, it was really sobering because you have video that you can see in both Latvia and Poland of these migrants being taken by these international criminal gangs right up to this gigantic fence, which you can see.
		And then they cut the fence.
		They actually use like torches to cut through the fence and people come through and try to get through to the West.
		So this is why, remember in the old days, Pedro, there was the Iron Curtain.
		Well, this is kind of, and the Iron Curtain was meant to keep people in the Soviet Union.
		And I would say this is a steel curtain that is keeping Russia out, both from invading the West, Europe especially, obviously, and also keeping this hybrid war away from undermining Europe.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Our guest is with us until 10 o'clock.
		And if you want to ask her about her travels, particularly when it comes to these borders, the larger issue of Russia and Ukraine, you can do that on the phone lines.
		202-748-8000 for Democrats, 202748-8001 for Republicans, and Independents 202748-8002.
		You can text us your questions at 202-748-8003.
		Ms. Doherty, how much of this activity on the border is just by the country itself?
		How does NATO also get involved?
jill dougherty ▲ ● ▼		Well, all of these countries that are on the border, the Baltics are all members of NATO.
		Poland is a member of NATO.
		So what they do, they are using their national resources, and it's very, very expensive.
		But they also can get some help from NATO.
		Give you an example.
		Like Poland is spending enormous millions and millions of dollars in order to beef up that border.
		But there are also things like they're using drones and surveillance cameras and even things, you could call it kind of like a sensor that can sense when people are walking on a border.
		So in addition to kind of the nations themselves, NATO is coming in and looking at this as a cohesive issue.
		It's an organized attack on Ukraine.
		So the countries in the Baltics, for example, are coordinating with Nordic countries that are also members of NATO.
		So it's a full-fledged, I would say, defense of the West going on.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Is it just border security or is there deterrence?
		Is there more activity than that?
		How would you describe that?
jill dougherty ▲ ● ▼		I would say there is a hybrid war that Russia is conducting against Ukraine, especially along the borders of those countries, but also within the countries of Western Europe.
		For example, you have sabotage.
		There are actually fires that have been started, you know, unknown origin at a shopping center in Poland.
		There are, and it was done, Poland would allege, and most observers believe, by Russia.
		But they pay, let's say, a young guy who just wants to make $100, and he has no idea maybe that it's Russia that's paying him.
		But this is one thing.
		So sabotage and some very serious sabotage.
		Remember, we've talked recently about cables being cut by ships up in the Baltic Sea.
		You had drone incursions into a number of countries along the border.
		You had an air incursion with MiG fighter jets into Estonia's airspace and many other examples.
		So, and I should never forget corruption and undermining elections.
		This is another major way that Russia is trying to undermine the West.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		When you were on the ground there, how much access do you have?
		You provided us with plenty of pictures, but how much access did you have?
		Were you kept from certain areas?
		How did that work for you?
jill dougherty ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, because I teach at Georgetown University, I also continue to do live shots for CNN, and I'm also at the Wilson Center, the Woodrow Wilson Center.
		I have a lot of connections in that part of the world.
		My area is Russia, of course.
		So months in advance, I actually contacted the Border Patrol, Interior Ministries, and the military in those countries and said, hey, I want to see if that's possible.
		Can I go up to the border?
		And they were all extremely helpful.
		They did not stop me.
		I was able to walk around, ask as many questions as I wanted.
		And it was a real education.
		And in each, especially those three countries, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, they gave me briefings showing some of the video that they have taken, for example, of those migrants coming over.
		And it's really pretty amazing.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Again, our guests with us until 10 o'clock.
		The numbers will be on your screen.
		They all start with a 202 area code for Democrats, 202748-8000.
		Republicans, 202-748-8001.
		Independents, 202-748-8000.
		Our guest is the author of a book, My Russia, What I Saw Inside the Kremlin.
		Ms. Doherty, a little bit about the book, your experience as well, how it informed this trip, and how you're, particularly how it also informs the larger issue of the Russia-Ukraine war.
jill dougherty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know, I've been dealing with Russia actually since I was in high school.
		I studied the Russian language way back in the 1960s, and then I became an exchange student in Leningrad, now called St. Petersburg, at coincidentally, the very same time that Vladimir Putin was there getting an education at the law school so he could become a budding KGB officer.
		And then I went on, I worked with Voice of America.
		I was on U.S. Information Agency exhibits.
		This is all even before I began to work as a journalist.
		So what I try to do in the book, My Russia, is I begin with Ukraine because the last time I was in Russia was actually February 2022 during the full-scale invasion by Russia.
		So I begin there, and I wanted it to be dramatic because it certainly felt dramatic to me.
		And then I kind of backtrack and give my personal history with Russia, why I was interested, you know, Cold War, Sputnik, et cetera.
		And then I get into my journalism career, and I pull out from all of those things that I experienced bigger lessons, like how did the United States react to the space race?
		What did John F. Kennedy do?
		Because these were all personal, but they were also parts of history.
		And then I go through my career at CNN, which actually spanned three decades, especially as Moscow Bureau Chief.
		That I think was the most intriguing of all, and it was the thing I'm interested in.
		And then I also talk about young people, and that's a big subject for me.
		Young people in Russia, young people in the region, and you could say young people in the United States who want to study Russia, but there are fewer and fewer opportunities to go.
		In fact, practically no Americans go to Russia anymore because of the possibility that you'll be held as a hostage.
		So that is, so it's very personal, and then it has a lot of Cold War and modern history in it.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		We have a viewer who asked off of a text this morning saying, what are the types of illegal activities the Russians are directing migrants and or proximity countries to commit within NATO countries?
jill dougherty ▲ ● ▼		You know, I don't think, as far as I know, that the migrants are induced to carry out criminal acts.
		A lot of them want to go, let's say to Germany.
		If they get to Germany, they will get a lot of benefits.
		Germany provides migrants, you know, money and housing and things like that.
		So if you're sitting in Afghanistan and you think, wow, I get no opportunities.
		I'm going to make my way to Germany.
		It doesn't sound that bad in a way.
		This is not like a terrorist recruiting.
		But what happens is, because this is illegal and because there are large numbers, sometimes there are hundreds of people at one time who are going through the fence or going through swamps, et cetera, it's very expensive for the countries in Europe along that border to defend the border.
		So they immediately have to spend money.
		And then that could be destabilizing if it becomes, which it is, millions and millions of dollars.
		Then those people get to cities in the West, sometimes, you know, not even knowing the language, certainly not knowing the culture.
		And Russia uses them to create societal tensions.
		You know, under the best of circumstances, sometimes that happens.
		Even if countries want to welcome people from other cultures, there can be tensions.
		And Russia exacerbates that.
		And they do that through their hybrid attacks and their disinformation campaigns.
		And then all of this, again, creates ferment in the West.
		And Russia's idea, big picture, is to create problems for the governments, especially NATO countries, governments in the West, to urge people to rise up, create problems.
		And it helps Russia to undermine these countries.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Jill Doherty, our guest, our first call for you comes from Ben.
		Ben is in Maryland Democrats line.
		You're on with our guest.
		Good morning.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Good morning, Jill.
		I wanted to ask about the hybrid attacks in Moldova and Romania and attempts to interfere in that election.
		Some have been proven to be connected to Russia.
		Some are alleged to be connected to Russia.
		And also, what is your opinion on the US government's position in supporting NATO allies in this hybrid war?
		Thank you.
jill dougherty ▲ ● ▼		Great questions.
		Thank you very much.
		So I was just in Romania and Moldova.
		There are two countries that I'm paying a lot of attention to.
		Let's take Moldova.
		Moldova is a very tiny country.
		It is considered the poorest country in Europe.
		It sits right on the Black Sea under Ukraine and then near Romania.
		So this is an area, especially we have to watch the Black Sea very closely.
		This is where Russia wants to establish control.
		So how does it do it?
		Moldova now, the president, is a Western-oriented woman.
		Her name is Maya Sandu.
		She's a very brave woman, in my opinion.
		And she has said, we want to become part of the West, especially part of the EU, the European Union.
		Why?
		Because it would help to increase the economy, help the economy, and help Moldova and Moldovan citizens live better and become part of Western values, etc.
		So Russia has put Moldova in the crosshairs.
		When I was there, I talked with many people about this.
		The election for the parliament had just taken place.
		In fact, I was able to attend the first speech by President Maya Sandu to that new parliament.
		And what had the Russians done?
		Well, they had spent between an estimated $250 million, $300 million to, I've even seen an estimate of $400 million on an election to throw the election to Kremlin-friendly candidates.
		And it didn't work, which is really quite striking.
		You know, one kind of small woman, she's about as big as I am, but she's very, very brave.
		And she decided that they, you know, society was going to fight it and try to remain whole and have a real election.
		So I think that is a very good example of that.
		Romania, you had a candidate.
		I'll try to keep this brief.
		And I'm sure you know about this.
		He was called the TikTok candidate for their parliamentary election.
		He came out of nowhere, a guy nobody knew.
		But all of a sudden, he was on TikTok saying very interesting things and running for parliament.
		And it was obviously, in my opinion, and of course, citing what the country said, he was obviously funded by the Russians.
		So unfortunately, Romania had to cancel that election.
		It looked bad for Romania, but it was obvious that they were being undermined.
		So these are examples of what Russia is doing.
		We could talk for an hour about this alone.
		Now, on NATO, I think it is crucial for NATO countries to believe that the United States is going to stick with NATO and stick with its promise to uphold and respond to any Chapter 5,
		sorry, any calls by countries for Article V protection if they are invaded or attacked in any way.
		This is part of the NATO system, which is if you invoke Article 5, then you ask the other countries to treat the attack on you as if they were being attacked.
		And the only time that that has ever really been invoked was when the United States was hit by 9-11.
		So we have benefited from that.
		And I would say it's very important to keep that promise to the other members of NATO.
		If they are attacked, that we will respect Article 5.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Ben is in Maryland, Democrats line.
		You're next up.
		Hello.
		Ben in Maryland.
		Hello.
		Let's go to Jeff.
		Jeff in Florida, Independent Line.
		Go ahead, you're on.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Good morning, Joe.
		I appreciate your work over on the border there.
		In regard to that, I had a question.
		We can't seem to gather much information on.
walter burien ▲ ● ▼		The participation of North Korean troops in the war against Ukraine, and are they actually on the front lines?
unidentified		We can't seem to get any solid information.
		I think that's a violation.
		Article 5 could be brought up there.
		I appreciate your time.
jill dougherty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm not quite sure about Article 5 because Ukraine is not a member of NATO.
		So it doesn't really apply.
		But if you look at the North Korean troops, there's no question that they've been on the front lines, especially in some of the areas like the Donbass-Donetsk region.
		And the way the Russians have used them initially, these were, they didn't, obviously, North Korean troops did not speak Russian.
		They were not used to Russian ways of war.
		So they were used essentially and continue to be, as far as I understand, as cannon fodder.
		So what would happen is, let's say there's an attack, this wave of North Korean troops would go first, be mowed down by the Ukrainians, and then the Russian troops would come through.
		Now, the war is changing with drones, but it still applies that the North Koreans are there basically, it's a terrible expression, isn't it, as cannon fodder.
		They also reportedly, and I don't know this for a fact, but there are indications and reporting, that they may be used for reconstruction in areas that the Russians have taken.
		This, I think, would be very important to watch, because North Koreans are used in Russia for some of the same types of tasks.
		So that synergy between North Korea and Russia is worrying.
		You know, North Korean Korea can create a lot of problems.
		If Russia wanted to crank up the heat on the United States or on NATO or the world, all they have to do is tell Kim Jong-un, why don't you send a missile over Japan?
		You know, that's an easy one.
		They can, in other words, North Korea is not that powerful, but it is developing nuclear weapons.
		But they can be used in synergy with Russia and with China and with Iran, who are now the friends of Russia, to create a lot of havoc in the world.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		You were showing people some photographs you took.
		This is in the Lithuanian border at a crossing point.
		I think I'm saying it right.
		Correct me, please, Khyberthai.
unidentified		Perfect.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And so tell people what they're seeing.
jill dougherty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay.
		So Khyberthai is this very small town in Lithuania.
		It is on the border with Kaliningrad.
		So if you look at the map, Kaliningrad is actually located in Europe.
		It used to be a part of Germany.
		It was taken by Russia after World War II and is now part of Russia.
		So it's an enclave, but it is definitely part of Russia.
		So, in order to communicate between Russia and Kaliningrad, there are railroads and different ways of getting in.
		So, the railroad, let's take it up to kind of walk you through that border.
		So, at the border, this is an actual border between Lithuania and Russia, which is Kaliningrad.
		So, there are several ways that you can get through.
		There are trucks that provide, you know, supplies and furniture and everything else to Kaliningrad.
		So, they're coming from Russia.
		They get to this border crossing, and it looked almost like the MVD, you know, where you pay your toll or a border in general.
		These trucks pull in and they are inspected by the Lithuanians, and then they go through to Russia.
		Then, there are also trains.
		So, there is one train a day with people in it that comes from Moscow, and that also has to be inspected.
		So, I saw one big long train filled with, not filled, actually, there weren't as many people as I expected, but they're sitting in the train sometimes for hours as they go through, you know, passports and are you hiding anyone, etc.
		So, this is a border check.
		And then there's a final way people can actually walk over the border.
		So, there were people who came through.
		Some women that I talked through who were going through were going to Turkey.
		They were actually Russians who wanted to come through the border and then take a flight onto Turkey.
		So, there's a lot of cross-border.
		But that is continuing.
		But I have to say, in Poland, it was not that they have shut down almost all of their border because of these incursions and because of problems of drones that have gone into Poland.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Let's go here from Mark in Massachusetts, Independent Line.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thank you.
		I was wondering how can, I have a couple of points, but how can Russia fight on all these fronts?
		I mean, from what, you know, from what I understand, I mean, what's it?
		50, 75 million people, and obviously they got all this oil revenue, but that's tough to come by.
		And also, too, do you see any similarities between Putin and Napoleon, you know, invading Ukraine and his successor?
		Like, and he looks sick.
		I mean, his successor, you know, is he going to continue with these attacks?
		Thank you.
jill dougherty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a great question.
		Well, I mean, how can they do this?
		Okay, so you're right.
		Russia is an energy producer.
		It basically produces nothing that the world wants except for energy, oil and gas.
		They have enormous supplies, and that is where somewhere around like 30, 35% at least of their budget comes from oil and gas.
		Now, they export it.
		There are a lot of sanctions.
		It's getting harder.
		But they are sanctions busting with these what are called the ghost fleet ships.
		These are illegal ways of getting oil around the world, but it's getting harder and harder.
		You're right to sell it.
		And it's, by the way, Europe is going green.
		So the countries that used to import a lot of Russian oil and gas are importing much, much less, with the exception of Hungary and Slovakia.
		Hungary, you know, there's a lot of praise of Hungary among some sides politically, but they are some of the biggest importers of oil and gas, I should say, energy, Russian energy, in Europe.
		So anyway, the Russians have now sufficient money to do this.
		When you talk about gray zone or sabotage, that is cheap.
		That is, you could do an entire operation with the cost of a couple of missiles.
		So the military part of it is expensive, but the disinformation, bribery, spending $400 million, $400 million is nothing.
		That's like a few missiles.
		So the undermining that's very serious, this gray zone, is something that I think that we're going to have to watch for a very, very long time on the part of Russia.
		And then finally, the second question I think was on, I'm sorry, I need to be reminded.
		What was the second question?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		I forgot to jot it down.
		I apologize.
		Well, I'll tell you similarities between, I guess, the current leader and the polling movement.
jill dougherty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly, because I thought that was a great question.
		Look, Putin actually is looking, to my mind, better than he looked a year ago.
		I don't know why, but maybe he's doing, he's a big exercise guy, so maybe he's doing his exercises and eating well.
		But he looks pretty good at this point.
		He is, I am sure, in charge of some type of plan because presumably, who knows?
		He may die.
		I mean, I'm joking.
		Obviously, he will.
		And in my book, he probably has a plan for post-Putin.
		But right now, he is not talking about that.
		He would be a lame duck.
		There is, let's say that he died tomorrow.
		There is a process in place, which is the prime minister, who at this point is a very capable kind of, you know, gray bureaucrat, would take over.
		He's never going to become president, but he would take over.
		And then there would be another election, I believe, within three months.
		So then I think it gets interesting because Putin has not named an heir.
		We don't know who would come in.
		And he is a very small group right now, his inner sanctum people, a very small group.
		So all of this is very unclear.
		I would say, big picture, Putinism continues.
		You know, his style of leadership, the corruption, the central control will probably continue.
		And then, you know, what happens in the future, we don't know.
		But it could be, I think, kind of rocky after that initial period, because once there's a vacuum, a lot of interesting things can happen.
		Watch the film, The Death of Stalin, and you can kind of get an idea of what can happen.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Jill Doherty is with us for this conversation on the events concerning Russia and the borders there.
		From John in Arlington, Virginia, you are next for our guest, Independent Lying.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Yes.
		What I'd like to ask is, do you think, in all honesty, knowing Vladimir Putin and what has happened so far that he would actually accept anything other than total domination?
		In other words, the complete capitulation of the government in Kyiv, given that all that has been gone into it and all that they've lost, I believe from the most current casualty counts, Russia has now incurred more casualties than all their prior wars, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Georgia combined.
		I mean, approaching World War II level casualties.
		So at this point, can he accept anything other than total domination of Ukraine in order to achieve his goals?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		That's John and Virginia.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And Ms. Doherty, there's also a viewer off of X who offers a similar question asking what incentives, if any, could realistically compel Vladimir Putin to de-escalate in Ukraine without total defeat?
jill dougherty ▲ ● ▼		You know, both of those, they're great questions.
		So in my opinion, there are no incentives that we can offer Putin.
		I don't think incentives are going to do it.
		I think you have to force his hand, force him to some type of agreement.
		Now, what does he want?
		He has not changed one goal since the beginning of the full-scale invasion.
		He set out essentially to take over Ukraine, to get rid of the government, get rid of Zelensky.
		He tried to kill Zelensky to have him assassinated.
		He wants to emasculate Ukraine insofar as it has defense.
		He wants what remains of the Ukrainian army to be very, very small.
		He wants a promise that it will never become part of NATO.
		And he even wants to roll back NATO in the neighborhood.
		So he has not changed any of those.
		Now, so what's the situation?
		What do we do and what does he do?
		I think that at this point, he is not going to be able to achieve those goals because Ukraine has been able to put him off, to fight him off, for almost going on four years, you know, at least three and a half.
		So I think what Putin will do is spin the fact that he has won.
		He will tell his people and the world that he at least got some of the objectives.
		And what would they be?
		I think if you look at that Donbass region, you know, Donetsk and Luhansk, those two areas that are highly industrialized, and they are areas that Putin is insisting that he get, even if he hasn't won them militarily.
		If he could get some type of fig leaf, and I'm not quite sure what that would be, where he can say, I did what I said, then maybe he can spin it that he won.
		He will not have won.
		But I think what the West has to do is make sure that he loses, that he does not achieve his goals.
		Because if he is able to undermine, take over whatever the Ukrainian government and turn it into a puppet state, which is exactly what he will want to do, it will only create more problems, except more west and close to the rest of Europe, than now.
		So, yeah, nobody really knows, you know, but I do believe that kind of claiming that you won is what he will do, as opposed to the actual fact.
		But he has to be pushed into it.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		This is from Kentucky, Democrats lying Bernie.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
		Mr. Artery, nice to talk to you.
		Last December, I had the good fortune of talking to one of your colleagues and another Russian expert, Marvin Kalb.
		And we ran short on time.
		I wasn't able to ask him a question because we ended up talking football.
		John was on the desk and the commanders were playing that day.
		And we ended up talking about football.
		But the question was, how do the Russian people feel about this war?
		Are they becoming tired of it or do they just keep their mouth shut, keep their head down?
		Or is there like total support for it?
		That was a question.
jill dougherty ▲ ● ▼		Great, great question.
		And Marvin Kalb is just a legend.
		I mean, his books, and he continues to write books.
		I mean, I can't get over him.
		But he is fantastic.
		So, Okay, so let's see, where do we start with this one?
unidentified		You know, let me, could I get- Can I follow up?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		You talked about your interest in young people.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Do you think young people in Russia have a different perspective on what's going on, say, longer citizens of the former Soviet Union?
jill dougherty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know, thank you for kind of reformulating because I didn't want to get into young people.
		But if you look at the polling and the polling, you know, in a circumstance of war, you can't exactly have a war and say, hey, do you like Putin, you know, in Russia?
		Because, of course, people are going to say, yes, I like Putin.
		But if you get into some of the polling that does exist, and there is a company that does polling, and it's pretty reliable, the way I would describe it is, you know, if you take Russian society, you have people over here who hate the war, don't want people to die, are, you know, destroyed by the fact that their families have lost people, et cetera.
		They're against the war, but they can no longer protest the war, because if they do, they will be arrested and thrown in prison.
		Then over here, you have another, and it's kind of the same percentage, of people who say, yeah, right on, let's bomb London, let's bomb Paris.
		They actually say this on Russian TV.
		So these would be the ardent nationalists who say, carry the fight, you haven't done enough.
		Mr. Putin, you have to get tough.
		That leaves 60% in the middle.
		And from what I can tell, a lot of that 60% are people who say, boy, I wish there weren't a war.
		I don't want a war.
		But what can I, as just a normal person, do about this?
		So they are depoliticized deliberately by the Kremlin to believe that there's nothing that they can do, that it's better to sit home and don't participate, don't criticize, and just accept it and say, my country, right or wrong, Mr. Putin, I salute you, and go along with it.
		And I think that is the sad dilemma that we have.
		A lot of people who are complicit because they don't believe that they can actually do anything.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And the younger person, perhaps?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		What's their take on it?
jill dougherty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, younger people, it's kind of confusing because you would think, yes, a lot of them are against the war.
		I mean, I shouldn't say a lot.
		There are significant numbers who are against the war.
		But there also are significant numbers who are proud that Russia is back on the stage.
		And so it's a very, I would say, kind of transactional, bloodless type of approach to the world, which says, hey, you know what?
		Maybe we're doing bad things, but the United States does bad things, and so does Europe, and everybody does.
		Who cares?
		You know, let's just be practical.
		And that's a growing feeling among some young people and others that I think is very worrisome or worrying to me about this new generation.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Eric is in New York.
		Our last call.
		We have just about a minute, Eric, so please go ahead with your question or comment quickly.
unidentified		Yes, how you doing?
		Why isn't there media coverage of the poor people of Ukraine getting bombed every night?
		Women and children?
		Just that too.
		And what part do you think Netanyahu has to play in this with those connections with Russia?
jill dougherty ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I'll leave the Netanyahu part out because that is a very complex thing.
		And I don't think I really fully understand any connection.
		But I would say there is a lot of reporting on Ukraine from what I see.
		I mean, you know, CNN has a lot, maybe not every day because we've got a lot of domestic news here and international, but there's a lot of reporting.
		I would suggest that you just go online and begin to search for stories from reliable sources that report on Ukraine.
		There is a lot.
		The war continues.
		And remember that right now, Putin is pulling out all the stops to destroy the energy structure of Ukraine before the winter and the cold weather comes.
		So keep your eye on it, as I'm sure you are.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Our guest book is called My Russia, What I Saw Inside the Kremlin.
		She served as the former CNN Moscow Bureau Chief.
		Jill Doherty, thanks for your time this morning.
jill dougherty ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		A lot going on this weekend, and especially heading towards Election Day.

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