CSPAN - Washington Journal 10/27/2025

All Episodes

Previous Next

Oct. 27, 2025 07:00-10:01 - CSPAN

03:00:43

Washington Journal 10/27/2025

Participants

Main

john mcardle

cspan 42:38

philip joyce

30:52

Appearances

anna paulina luna

rep/r 00:51

brian lamb

cspan 02:28

chris murphy

sen/d 01:00

donald j trump

admin 00:58

kristen welker

nbc 00:30

scott bessent

admin 01:30

sean duffy

admin 00:57

Clips

@geo motion

00:24

david rubenstein

00:07

jake tapper

cnn 00:02

maria bartiromo

fox 00:28

ruben gallego

sen/d 00:21

stacy schiff

00:20

Callers

valerie in kentucky

callers 00:51

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
@geo motion ▲ ● ▼		Shutdown based on American zip code and political affiliation.
		Then, Time politics reporter Nick Popely will preview the week ahead at the White House and other news of the day.
		And later, University of Maryland public policy professor Philip Joyce on how the government shutdown has expanded President Trump's power over fiscal and budgetary matters.
		C-SPAN's Washington Journal starts now.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		It's Monday, October 27th, 2025, day 27 of the government shutdown.
		We'll talk about the latest impacts here at home and also discuss President Trump's overseas trip to Asia, where he's meeting today with Japanese officials and also close to signing a new trade deal with China.
		And of course, we want to hear from you on phone lines split as usual by political party.
		Republicans, it's 202-748-8001.
		Democrats, 202-748-8000.
		Independents, 202-748-8002.
		And as we've done throughout the shutdown, we've set aside a special line for federal workers.
		202-748-8003 is that number.
		You can also send us a text or catch up with us on social media.
		On X, it's at C-SPANWJ on Facebook.
		It's facebook.com/slash C-SPAN.
		And a very good Monday morning to you.
		You can go ahead and start calling in now.
		President Trump is in Tokyo today.
		He arrived earlier this morning.
		He's meeting with Japan's emperor today and the new Japanese prime minister.
		That meeting is set for tomorrow.
		But all eyes are looking towards Thursday.
		In South Korea, President Trump is expected to meet with Chinese President Xi Jinping at that Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Summit that's taking place.
		And headlines on that front from the front page of today's Washington Post: trade deal with China now in reach.
		The stage is set for that Trump-G meeting.
		This is the headline from the Washington Times.
		Treasury Secretary Scott Besent says the U.S. and China have reached a framework for their trade agreement.
		He talked about that framework on Meet the Press yesterday.
		This is what he had to say.
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		President Trump gave me a great deal of negotiating leverage with the threat of the 100% tariffs on November 1st.
		And I believe we've reached a very substantial framework that will avoid that and allow us to discuss many other things with the Chinese.
		I think we will be able to discuss them helping us get this terrible fentanyl crisis under control.
		I think we are going to be able to discuss substantial soybean and ag purchases for our American farmers.
		I think we are going to be able to discuss more balanced trade.
		And I'm not going to get ahead of the two leaders, but I think that they will also be discussing President Trump's global peace plan that he's been so successful at, both here in Asia, the Middle East, and now he's looking to Ukraine-Russia.
kristen welker ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Secretary, you said a couple of significant things.
		It sounds like you're saying you are not anticipating a 100% tariff against China on November 1st.
		And it seems like you're saying that China is poised to purchase soybeans to open up those markets again.
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		I believe that we have the framework for the two leaders to have a very productive meeting for both sides.
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		And I think it will be fantastic for U.S. citizens, for U.S. farmers, and for our country in general.
kristen welker ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but you're not anticipating the 100% tariffs.
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not.
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		And I'm also anticipating that we will get some kind of a deferral on the rare earth export controls that the Chinese had discussed.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Treasury Secretary Scott yesterday on Meet the Press much more on trade throughout this week as we get closer to that meeting, again, expected on Thursday in South Korea.
		By the way, more speculation about the president's overseas trip.
		This from the pages of the New York Times.
		Some speculation that Donald Trump may meet with North Korea's leader, Kim Jong-un, on this trip.
		Mr. Trump, who's met with Mr. Kim three times in 2018 and 2019, has repeatedly said that he would like to see Mr. Kim again, they write, boasting of their great relationship.
		On Friday, as he boarded Air Force One, he said that he would like to meet with Mr. Kim.
		We'll see if that takes place this week.
		We're talking about President Trump's overseas trip to Asia, but it's also day 27 of the government shutdown and talking about the impacts here in the United States.
		That was also the topic of some of the conversations on the Sunday shows yesterday.
		It was on Sunday Morning Futures on Fox News yesterday that Treasury Secretary, that Transportation Secretary, Sean Duffy, talked about the impacts of the shutdown on U.S. air travel.
sean duffy ▲ ● ▼		My job is to keep the airspace safe.
sean duffy ▲ ● ▼		And so if I don't feel like I have enough controllers or enough controllers that are focused, we will slow down traffic.
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		We will stop traffic.
unidentified		And that's why you see the delays in the system.
sean duffy ▲ ● ▼		And the job, number one, is, again, get people to where they're going safely.
		And if it's not on time, well, call the Democrats.
		Call Chuck Schumer if you're frustrated that you have a staffing shortage and your flight's three hours delayed or your flight is canceled.
unidentified		Call Chuck.
sean duffy ▲ ● ▼		Call Senate Democrats because this is the reason why.
maria bartiromo ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sounds like it's going to be a rough week ahead for travel and it may very well impact some of the holiday travel that we're expecting going into Thanksgiving.
unidentified		No, I think you're right.
sean duffy ▲ ● ▼		As we look forward, again, there's travel for sports, there's travel for holidays.
sean duffy ▲ ● ▼		And again, what I love about President Trump, and again, I love that you showed him dancing, having a good time.
unidentified		President Trump cares about the American people.
sean duffy ▲ ● ▼		He's tried to minimize the impact of Democrat shutdown on the American people.
sean duffy ▲ ● ▼		But there are certain things you just can't stop.
unidentified		And I can't stop the frustration of air traffic controllers.
sean duffy ▲ ● ▼		I can't find money to pay them.
sean duffy ▲ ● ▼		And again, you mentioned SNAP and you mentioned Obamacare subsidies.
unidentified		These are real pains that Americans are going to feel because of Democrats.
sean duffy ▲ ● ▼		And President Trump has done all he can to minimize it, but there's nothing else he can do.
sean duffy ▲ ● ▼		And in the end, you got to look at the Democrats and go, start focusing on Americans, American citizens.
unidentified		And what's best for us?
unidentified		Put America first, be a MAGA for a moment, and open up the government.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy, that was yesterday on the Sunday shows.
		Democratic sender is also heading to the Sunday shows yesterday.
		It was Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut who was speaking on CNN about the latest on the shutdown.
		This is what he had to say.
unidentified		The New York Times reported that the private donor who gave President Trump $130 million to pay U.S. troops during the shutdown, that he is billionaire Timothy Mellon.
jake tapper ▲ ● ▼		And the donation appears to violate federal law.
unidentified		But what do you say to Americans who look at that and think it's President Trump, not Democrats, making sure the troops get paid?
chris murphy ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think one of the reasons that President Trump is refusing to negotiate is because he likes the fact that the government is closed, because he thinks he can exercise king-like powers.
		He can open up the parts of the government that he wants.
		He can pay the employees who are loyal to him.
		I mean, this is a leader who is trying to transition our government from a democracy to something much closer to a totalitarian state.
		And so this is part of what happens in totalitarian states.
		The leader, the regime, only decides what things get funded and what don't, often in coordination with their oligarch friends.
		So I just don't want to live in a world in which Donald Trump and a handful of billionaires decide which part of government works and which don't, which is why I would rather have him at the negotiating table tomorrow so that we can reopen the government and it can be a democratically elected Congress that decides what things get funded, not a handful of super rich dudes.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Senator Chris Murphy, yesterday on CNN, in terms of what gets funded and what doesn't get funded, here's an article from today's New York Times: Food banks nationwide are bracing for an overwhelming need as SNAP cutoff looms.
		The story noting, with no end in sight to the nearly month-long government shutdown, funding for the nation's largest food assistance program, known as SNAP, will disappear at the start of November, according to the Department of Agriculture.
		On Friday, the Trump administration said in a memo that it would not tap into contingency funds to keep payments flowing to states.
		That means that roughly 42 million Americans who rely on SNAP, the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, may soon have to find other ways to feed themselves and their families.
		One of the headlines from day 27 of the government shutdown.
		Taking your phone calls on the government shutdown, on the president's trip overseas.
		We can talk about either in this first hour of the Washington Journal.
		Here's how you get in touch with us.
		Democrats, it's 202-748-8000.
		Republicans 202-748-8001.
		Independents 202-748-8002.
		Federal employees, we've been chatting with you throughout the government shutdown.
		The number for you to call: 202-748-8003.
		We'll start in Oklahoma line for Democrats.
		This is Cal.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Go ahead, Cal.
		Yes.
		On the trip to the Far East, I am not encouraged by Treasury Secretary's description of what's coming, which is a framework for a discussion.
		That sounds like at least a two-step process before anybody gets serious about resolving the purposes of that trip.
		More directly on your other topic about the shutdown, where real people live, even out here in Red Oklahoma, people have a habit of wanting to eat every day, children especially.
		What's coming is a real nightmare for 42 million Americans who rely for SNAP for their food.
		That's the reality of that.
		Secondly, on the issue of the premiums expiring on 31 December, that will affect millions of the most desperate people when it comes to health care.
		What I've just said, everybody knows, and here's my prediction: the Congress will finally, because of the numbers now involved, will find a compromise.
		It may take another week or two, but there will be a compromise because Republicans cannot live going into 2026 with the kinds of damage that will be done if neither SNAP nor the Medicaid premiums are not addressed.
		That's my projection as a longtime observer, and I thank you for taking my call.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		So as the clock, Cal, ticks down on the Obamacare subsidies as the headline in the Washington Times front page notes today.
		What's your prediction for when this ends?
		The open enrollment process begins on November 1st in most states, and many of those states have sent their notices informing consumers that they'll have to pay more out of pocket for their insurance costs.
unidentified		Well, my prediction is that although both parties talk about the abject fear and damage that'll be done to our children and grandchildren with a $37 trillion national debt, neither party really means that.
		They look barely past tomorrow, let alone what's going to happen to their children and grandchildren.
		So what I predict is a mid-ground, middle ground of the worry the Republicans express of the cost of the premium extensions of $1.5 trillion.
		Sounds like a big number.
		It is, but they've never hesitated to add dramatically to the national debt.
		The Democrats will say, we won, and it's going to be extended for, what, six months, a year, whatever, at a cost of something less than $1.5 trillion.
		And then they'll focus on what they really want to focus on, and that's getting the hell home for Thanksgiving.
		Again, I thank you for my opportunity to speak.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Cal in the Sooner State to the Buckeye State.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		This is Doug Independent.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Good morning.
		How are you today?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Doing well, sir.
unidentified		Well, I got a problem with this Trump shutdown pretty bad because he leaves the country, so he don't get the blame.
		But he's got his many me over here keeping Congress shut down.
		You know, Dr. Ebel's got as many me, and he's got his Mike Johnson, they're the same person.
		And, you know, they're going to really hurt the American people, and they don't care.
		All they care about is tax breaks for the rich, and the poor so they could care less.
		You know, my wife and I both would have died without Obamacare.
		And thank God we had it back in the day.
		But I'm telling you right now, Trump's been trying to get rid of Obamacare since 2017, and the idiot can't do it, and it's making Tomatica cry.
		But still, the thing, the country needs those supplements.
		And shutting down SNAP benefits for the super poor, that's just ridiculous on their behalf.
		And he's going to pull it out at the last second and give it to him so he can look like a hero to the poor.
		And that's just ridiculous because I know Donald Trump, and he's an idiot all the way.
		He always has been.
		He always will be.
		Thank you.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Got your point.
		That's Doug in Ohio.
		You mentioned Speaker Mike Johnson.
		We are going to hear from him.
		We're scheduled to, at 10 a.m. Eastern time.
		That's where we're scheduled to go after this program ends.
		We'll head up to Capitol Hill.
		The Speaker holding a press conference as he does most weekdays, as he has during the government shutdown.
		The Senate today is expected to be in at 3 p.m. Eastern.
		So the Congress back in action and plenty to watch on the C-SPAN networks.
		This is Roberta here in D.C., Line for Democrats.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		Good morning, everybody, and all patriots and proud Americans, which I am.
		I think we're going through a dark time, but it's right at the end of the tunnel.
		Evil spirits can't continue forever.
		And think about people and their children before you think about the millionaires, because they've always had.
		They're fine.
		Think about the poor people and the seniors and the sick people in America today that need a hand, which America has always given.
		Thank you for taking my call.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		To West Virginia, Crab Orchard, David, Independent, good morning.
unidentified		next.
		Good morning.
		Good morning.
		Yeah, all these confused people out there that keep saying that this is the Republican and Trump shutdown doesn't understand that the Democrats, all they had to do is give the Republicans eight votes so that they could bring it to a vote where they didn't have to vote for this resolution, the Democrats.
		The Republicans would have passed it with 52, 53.
		There'd be no shutdown.
		Okay.
		Also, when they do this eventually and open up the government, into November, this one ends, they'll be shutting it down, Democrats again, because they won't allow it to come to the floor.
		They'll shut it down again for the Christmas holidays.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		So David, you think we're in a cycle of shutdowns?
unidentified		Of course.
		We've been doing that for years.
		And so I blame the Republicans too now, after a certain period of time, because they should be forced to do away with a stupid rule, which is actually the Congress's liar insurance that called filibuster 60 votes.
		You know, because once they bring it to the floor, Democrats normally do not vote for the issue that the majority party, which is the Republicans, actually pass the legislation.
		Okay, so we're playing this game every year.
		Republicans need to go ahead, change the rule, open the government, and I blame them now because they need to open the government and because they'll play this again at the end of November.
		They'll play it again during Christmas.
		They'll play it again during the mid-cycle election.
		It's a game.
		They need to change it.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		David, on the filibuster issue that you bring up, supporters of the filibuster say that this is one mechanism that the legislative branch has to force some compromise, to force at least some members to work together, unless, of course, one party has a super majority and has the 60 votes without needing the other side.
unidentified		Sir, that is why we're at 37, almost 38 trillion dollars in debt.
		And eventually, we're going to have to go bankrupt because of compromise.
		Thank you.
		And Republicans, change the rule, pass it.
		And that's the way.
		Otherwise, you won't play this game every year.
		You're not having a nice day, sir.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's David out in West Virginia.
		You mentioned the holidays on the length, the expected length of the shutdown.
		Congresswoman Ana Paulina Luna, the Republican from Florida, was also on Sunday Morning Futures yesterday saying that this could extend into the holidays.
		Here's what she had to say.
anna paulina luna ▲ ● ▼		Look, behind the scenes, Maria, I'm hearing that we potentially might not be back until even around the Thanksgiving timeframe or after that.
		And it's really unfortunate because, as you know, the military is going without paychecks potentially.
		We have the SNAP and EBT program that's potentially, especially going up into the holiday season, going to be on the chopping block here.
		And it's all because Chuck Schumer is afraid of AOC and her polling numbers for the Senate.
		So I hope that he can put his ego aside and reopen the government.
maria bartiromo ▲ ● ▼		Thanksgiving?
		You're not going to be back until around Thanksgiving?
		I mean, what is that going to mean in terms of funding government?
		What do you do?
		Do a continuing resolution into next year?
		I mean, obviously, that makes November 21st null and void.
anna paulina luna ▲ ● ▼		That's what I'm hearing on back-end conversations, to include with members of the Democrat Party.
		So that's kind of the rumor on the hill right now.
		And I would prefer to be back.
		We have a lot of work that we're unable to do because we're not in session.
		Frankly, there's a lot of constituent services that are hard to provide for our residents here, not just here, but across the country, as a result of the government shutdown.
		But yeah, that's unfortunately what we're hearing, and I think that that would push us probably to another CR.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That from Sunday Morning Futures on Fox News.
		Yesterday, it is the Washington Journal this morning.
		We're talking about government shutdown day 27 and also President Trump's overseas trip to Asia.
		Some movement yesterday on a potential trade deal with China.
		All eyes on that meeting between President Trump and Xi Jinping, expected for Thursday this week.
		Phone lines, as usual, Democrats, Republicans, and Independents, and a special line for federal employees.
		Lynn, a federal employee out of Philly, is up next.
		Lynn, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I'm, you know, a retired federal worker, and I hear people talking about, you know, the president needs to get involved, and the Democrats are saying this, the Republicans are saying this.
		This is the truth.
		The Democrats, and I'm a Democrat, are the ones that actually in the Senate side shut down the government.
		You know, they did not vote for a continuing resolution, except for three of them.
		One is the senator of Pennsylvania Federal and all.
		So they have to get together and stop holding Americans hostage.
		We're about to have people without food come, what, November 1st, which is the end of this week.
		And that's ridiculous.
		It is not worth it.
		Plus, the health care companies have already said you're way past the deadline for them to change their costs that they're going to give out to the public for the health care.
		So, because November 1st is open season.
		So, they need to get together.
		I know they keep on saying the president needs to come back, but the power of the purse is with the Congress, not the president.
		You all talk about this president being a king, but if you want him to solve this problem, you're making him a king.
		This has got to stop in America.
		I want the Democrats to fight, but I want them to fight in a negotiating way, like I did when I was a union president, versus sitting up here constantly bickering and the Republicans bickering.
		This has got to stop, and America has got to stop accepting it.
		That's all I have to say.
		Thank you.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Lynn in Philly.
		This is Tina out of Maryland, Republican.
		Good morning.
		You're next.
unidentified		Yes, I'm of the opinion that if we don't stop doing behaving the way we are now, we'll be like it was in the French Revolution where the poor people are asking for food, and the rich people, the king and the queen, were saying, let them eat cake.
		How can you eat cake if you don't have money to buy cake?
		How can you eat cake if you don't have people who produce the flour or sugar?
		You can't do things unless you have a united front.
		And if you don't have a united front, like this country doesn't have at this time, we will be doing something in a place where we are like the French Revolution and most revolutions go.
		The rich get richer and have disdain for the poor.
		The poor need to get something else, and they have disdain for the rich.
		And there has to be a middle ground.
		People are dying.
		People are hungry.
		People need to have something to look forward to.
		And that's not that ballroom at the White House.
		And it's not the, what you call it, Big Bill.
		It's the people in the United States who are suffering.
		All colors.
		I don't care what you look like, where you live, if you are not rich or in a powerful position, you will have to eat cake that you can't buy and can't find stuff to make it with.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Tina in Maryland this morning.
		Some additional news on the president's trip to Asia.
		This is from the New York Post story on it.
		The U.S. and China have also finalized a deal to transfer the American version of TikTok to new owners.
		Scott Bassent also announcing that on Sunday, President Trump was asked about that and the trade deal with China when he was on Air Force One earlier today.
		This was ahead of landing in Tokyo to meet with the Emperor of Japan.
unidentified		We might.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		We might.
		That'll be one of the things we're discussing.
		Somebody reported it's been approved recently.
		I mean, we got an original approval from President Xi.
		I expect we'll have an approval, but I'd rather wait till a couple of days to let you do part of the grand deal coming up.
		No, but it's something we're going to talk about.
unidentified		75% tariffs on China.
unidentified		Is there an understanding from both countries that that will remain regardless of?
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't want to tell you what the understanding is because what we understood yesterday or two days ago or even today is not going to be necessarily what it's going to be in two days.
		I mean, we're going to have a great talk.
		I have a lot of respect for President Xi.
		I like him a lot.
		He likes me a lot, I believe, and respects me, and I think he respects our country a lot.
		And we're going to have, I think we're going to have a successful transaction for both countries.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		President Trump, there, you can see Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, in the background of that discussion.
		Also, Scott Besant joining him.
		And then at the President's left arm in that conversation he was just having.
		Jameson Greer, a key figure, U.S. trade representative, was also joining President Trump there as he was speaking to reporters on Air Force One.
		Again, the president is in Japan today, headed to South Korea on Thursday.
		That's where that expected meeting between the President and Xi Jinping will take place, and it will be tracked closely throughout the week.
		Taking your phone calls, this is Tom in Miamisburg, Ohio Democrat.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, John.
		This is the old dumb 90-year-old Hill Billy.
		I think it's just a shame the way this government works.
		I used to live in West Palm.
		My wife lived there from 53 till 88.
		Her sister was in school the same time Psycho Don was in school.
		It's just a shame that he can run all over the country.
		And he talk about the debt.
		Well, he contributed over $8 trillion his first four years, and he is on his well track to make it to $12 trillion in this time.
		It's just a shame and a disgrace.
		I feel so sorry for my 11 great-grandkids.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		John, it's just a shame that we let parties dominate the whole world like we do.
unidentified		Thank you very much, John.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Tom out of Ohio.
		This is Brian out of West Point, Georgia.
		Independent, good morning.
unidentified		Hey, good morning, John.
		Speaking about both of today's subjects, one, the government shut down.
		Unfortunately, we are in a time period where I think that Americans really need to educate themselves and understand what the underlying issues are with the idea of a single-payer health care system, which is what the Affordable Care Act, quote-unquote, Obamacare, was really pushing us in the direction of.
		And when you see single-payer systems like, let's say, in the U.K, for example, with the NHS, the level and degree and the amount of taxes that people pay in order to have such a system is the equivalent of what we're going to see with the rise and spike in premiums for health care costs,
		because there is the unfortunate effect of this system called the death spiral, where government provided health care for poor people, for sicker people, causes the cost per person to rise individually.
		And so what we're seeing now is the government working to try and remove private workers from their own private employers' health care system.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Brian, how do you get your health care insurance?
unidentified		I actually don't have health care insurance.
unidentified		I'm self-employed, and it's too expensive for even me to try and do as an individual.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Have you tried to go through the federal system and find a plan there?
unidentified		Absolutely.
		And it's not financially feasible.
		That's a decision I think that people continue to have to make, especially in a scenario like mine of self-employment where you don't get the subsidies or the assistance of an employer.
		And as premium cost and expenses have continued to rise, it's cheaper to essentially pay for health care costs and things out of pocket to cover simple prescription costs and things like that.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		When's the last time you had health insurance, Brian?
unidentified		Ooh, about five years ago.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		And this paying out of pocket has worked for you?
unidentified		Yeah, it has, unfortunately.
		I mean, I don't like it as I get older every year.
		I become more and more concerned about this model for my life because as we do get older, then our need for access to health care certainly increases.
		But as I said, the feasibility and the way that the finances work out is just not possible at this particular moment in time.
		Paying, say, $350 a month for health care insurance versus approximately $150 a month in what it costs for me to be able to visit my primary care position.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Are there the roosters crowing, Brian?
unidentified		Sorry, that was my morning alarm, second alarm.
		But this is a particular situation where paying $150, something like that a month for me to be able to visit my primary care position versus about $350 a month for health care premium costs once you add in deductible payments.
		It just doesn't work out.
		And that's, like I said, an unfortunate side effect of the idea of having a government-funded government option where I absolutely believe that health care is a human right.
		People should have access and the ability to be able to get health care.
		But we can't.
		It's so hard to deal with when, especially if we're bringing in illegal immigrants and other folks who are getting access to it that aren't paying into the system through taxes.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		So, Brian, what is the ideal system in your mind then?
		So, you're talking about a private market system, but it's still too expensive for you.
		So, how do you get, if you get government completely out of it, how do you make this affordable for you?
unidentified		Like I said, John, it's a very unfortunate scenario that I don't know.
		There is a, I don't know that there is a perfect answer to it because, as I said, when you take and include, if you put every single person in the United States into one healthcare system, what are people that are healthier, people that have less money, people that don't visit the doctor as much or don't have prescription costs built into their monthly budgets?
		What are they going to do?
		They're going to get out of the system because they make the same decision that I'm currently making, which is it's more expensive for me to pay health care premium costs than it is to just exist outside of the system.
		But if you remove someone like myself that doesn't visit doctors as much, doesn't use prescription drugs as much, doesn't take access or need access to emergency care physicians or regular specialist doctor visits,
		because when you remove someone like me from the system and you take out healthier individuals, then that only drives up the cost of the system per person because every person now is collectively less healthy.
		And, like I said, John, I don't know that I have a particular answer for it at the moment, but, like I said, it's something that I believe that Americans need to educate themselves specifically about and understand the difficulties of trying to implement and adapt the American health care system from what it strictly was before the American Affordable Care Act,
		as a totally private insurance system, to this more open kind of public option, availability, Brian, thanks for call from West Point, Georgia.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Kathleen's waiting in the windy city.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Democrat, good morning.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Can you keep your hands on the coffee cup so I can have a little time like the guy from Georgia?
		Anyway, there is not a government shutdown.
		Please give me a second to tell you why.
		A shutdown means lights off, doors locked.
		But you got people going to work, actually going to work and not being paid.
		Another thing is the only reason why, hello?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		I'm listening to you, Kathleen.
unidentified		Okay, the only reason why Donald Trump and the Republicans would not come to the table with the Democrats, and this is for the lady from Pennsylvania, is Obamacare.
		If it had been any other insurance that they wanted to come to agreements with, it wouldn't be a shutdown.
		Trump has been trying to get rid of Obamacare since he came down the escalator.
		American people don't be dude.
		It's because Obamacare.
		And if the Democrats mess around and go back in there and negotiate with these Republicans, and which they have, and they've been mad to, guess what?
		Obamacare is not coming back up again.
		And the thing that would be so nice is the first four years Trump was in there, he got a big, beautiful insurance plan.
		He's back again.
		Where's the insurance plan?
		You don't get rid of something that millions and millions of people need if you don't have nothing to replace it.
		Nothing to replace it, and you want to get rid of it.
		And another reason why the government is not a shutdown is people not getting paid.
		Because they're still working.
		It's the Epstein files.
		But later with that, but the main thing is, please, America, please don't be fooled about this insurance because it'll be sad when you lose your health coverage because one man is so envious of another man.
		He doesn't want President Obama to go down in history as even being existed.
		And that's a shame.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Kathleen in Chicago this morning on the state of negotiations for the shutdown.
		More from the Sunday shows on Meet the Press yesterday.
		It was Senator Ruben Gallego, Democrat of Arizona.
		This is what he had to say.
unidentified		It's bad out there.
		If you go to the grocery store, people aren't buying as much.
		Food is still high.
		Energy is high.
ruben gallego ▲ ● ▼		And now we're going to add health insurance costs on top of that.
ruben gallego ▲ ● ▼		What we're asking is for the president to take a leadership position, for Mike Johnson to bring back Congress, and let's work a real compromise.
unidentified		And that compromise will look with some type of reform to the ACA.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		We get that.
unidentified		We understand that.
ruben gallego ▲ ● ▼		But we need to assure Americans do not have their inflation, do not see their insurance premiums double overnight.
unidentified		And that's what's going to happen unless Republicans work with us to stop that.
kristen welker ▲ ● ▼		But how long are you prepared to stick out this fight?
kristen welker ▲ ● ▼		Past November 1st, past Thanksgiving?
unidentified		I'm not looking at a timetable.
unidentified		I'm looking at everyone's personal pocketbook right now.
kristen welker ▲ ● ▼		Do you rule that timetable out, though?
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I rule any tight temple out right now.
unidentified		What I rule, and I only focus on right now is trying to keep costs low.
		Right now, again, everything is just hurting.
		You know, they talk about the price of rent.
		It's not going down.
		It's actually staying stable in some areas.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Most of our areas, it's going up.
ruben gallego ▲ ● ▼		We're seeing auto loans are now largely in default, large as ever it has been quite a while.
unidentified		And we're going to go back and add, again, insurance premiums doubling for 24 million Americans.
		That is a decision that the Republicans are going to make, and then they have to own for the next year.
		And I'm not quite sure that a lot of Republicans and swing districts understand what they're about to do.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Senator Ruben Gallego, that was yesterday on Meet the Press on the cost of goods right now.
		The business section of the New York Times took a look at the impact of tariffs imposed under the second Trump administration.
		They note that since the Trump administration started imposing steep tariffs on goods from the rest of the world, the Treasury Department has been taking in about $30 billion a month from customs dues on paper.
		American companies pay those bills when their products enter the country.
		But figuring out who ultimately absorbs the costs is more complicated.
		Inflation data had shown limited effects for consumers through the summer.
		Corporate earnings calls in recent weeks, though, suggest that that is changing, and new data was released on Friday.
		Companies, they note, have passed along about 37% of new tariffs onto consumers.
		They forced 9% onto their suppliers, and companies have absorbed 51% through August, according to a report from Goldman Sachs.
		That's a big hit to shoppers' wallets.
		The New York Times writes enough to reverse inflation's fall, but it's milder than it would have been if companies were charging consumers as much as they had at the same point of the last burst of tariffs during President Trump's first term.
		Mostly, it's because the tariffs are much higher and more widespread than in 2018, making them too difficult for consumers to digest all at once.
		Corporate profit margins are also healthier.
		Consumers are more exhausted by price increases over the past several years, and companies suspect that the White House may back down from these tariffs eventually.
		That's the first couple of graphs from that story today.
		If you want to read the full story, it is in today's New York Times.
		About 20 minutes left here in the first hour of the Washington Journal, taking your phone calls on government shutdown day 27 and President Trump's trip to Asia this week.
		This is Stephen out of Lexington, Kentucky, Independent.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		Happy Monday to everybody.
		As happy as you can be on a Monday.
		Yeah, it's a terrible, terrible thing that this shutdown is occurring.
		It's affecting literally everybody.
		Any state that you're in, any kind of industry that you're in, it's getting affected negatively.
		Now, what I really want to bring up is it's still affected by the government shutdown.
		We aren't getting any pictures from NASA during this shutdown for an interstellar object that's flying through our solar system.
		And right now it's behind the sun.
		And we could easily get pictures of this.
		However, with the shutdown, NASA doesn't want to release photos.
		And this is a very strange object because it's not like an asteroid we've ever seen in the past.
		It has very odd anomalies.
		And on October 29th, when we're actually going to be able to see it move past the sun, if that object moves in any way radically, stops, changes direction.
		We know we're not alone.
		And at the point that right now, the government isn't allowing us to see this, the International Asteroid Warning Society has been deployed.
		That's a NASA, that's a NASA organization.
		They quietly initiated and triggered the Asteroid Warning Society to start looking at this object.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		So, Stephen, you're worried the shutdown is going to keep us from discovering aliens.
unidentified		From discovering anything in our solar system.
		What if that asteroid is non-human intelligence and it's coming our way?
		And we have no idea and we just can't prepare.
		It's not a funny issue.
		It's actually real.
		There's a lot of whistleblowers out there coming out, telling us the truth that we are not alone in this universe.
		And the fact that the government is shut down right now, it's just too coincidental.
		I'm telling you, NASA needs to release these photos because you think the shutdown is a conspiracy?
		Nope.
		I don't think it's a conspiracy.
		I think it's really happening.
		I think all of this is design.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		It's been designed to be shut down so we don't get to see this object.
unidentified		It's designed to stop the U.S. from, or at least the people in the U.S., to be able to react to anything, not just the space objects, but to threats coming internally.
		It's a power grab, really.
		Because what if something does come towards us and then the president just decides to enact all the power towards him just because we have a threat coming from the outside?
		It's too easy for him to be able to just pull this lever of total power.
		And we're all in the dark about it.
		It's the wildest situation right now that we're all just sitting here like ducks and we're all just at the will of this government that clearly doesn't care about the regular Joe, the regular Stephen, the regular Elizabeth out there.
		It's all about billionaires.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		When do you think the last time was that we had a government that cared about the regular Stephen out there?
unidentified		I'm a millennial, so honestly, I've been through everything.
		You guys, like all the boomers and Gen Xers, you guys have just whiplashed us back and forth.
		So honestly, there hasn't been a time.
		I love the 90s.
		That was a great time, me growing up.
		But after that, it's been terrible.
		You know, between going to college and getting all these student loans, you know, between the housing market, between, you know, this government, it's the wildest 36 years of my freaking life.
		So, Stephen, what do you do for a living?
		My regular job is in manufacturing.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		36 years old.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		How much do you have in college loans right now?
unidentified		Oh, I've been paying my college loan since 2012, and I still have, I think, $23,000 that I owe, which is ridiculous.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Where'd you get your degree?
unidentified		Marketing and advertising.
		And yeah, no, I'm really thankful for it.
		However, it's just not.
		The life, the life that we have now, us millennials, is way more complicated than our parents had.
		You know, we're working harder and we're making less, and we're supposed to do more with nothing.
		It's wild.
		And then we have all these baby boomers just collecting Social Security.
		Like my parents right now are traveling around Europe.
		Actually, I think they're in Dubai right now.
		You know, so like they're living it up.
		I mean, good for them.
		But honestly, you guys, baby boomers, they ruined this economy for us.
		They gave us drugs.
		They like, I blame it all on you guys.
		So, hey, long story short, if this object behind three eye Atlas, if it is NHI, not human intelligence, or something we don't even know about, and if it actually does come towards us, it's all Trump's fault.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Stephen in the Bluegrass State.
		Well, head up to the Rough Rider State.
		This is Barbara in Fargo, Republican.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hey, John.
		You're one of my favorite.
		Anyway, a simple question.
		Why can't the individual states handle food stamps?
		Can't they feed their own people?
		Anyway, have a wonderful day.
		I enjoy your chill.
		Bye.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Barbara and Fargo.
		This is Barbara in New York City, Democrat.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		I'm wondering, where is Congress?
		It appears to me that Donald Trump is making all the decisions.
		And in the past, they would vote for or against any decision making.
		And Donald just goes and says he's going to do this.
		I'm shutting down the government.
		He said, this is his third time shutting down the government.
		Can't Congress stop this from happening?
		We shouldn't have to punish the people.
		We're the taxpayers.
		They should work with us, not against us.
		What is going on in Washington, D.C.?
		And do we need Congress?
		Maybe we don't need them.
		We'll have a king like Donald.
		Thank you.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Barbara, you should stick around for our nine o'clock hour this morning on the Washington Journal because the topics that you bring up, Philip Joyce, University of Maryland School of Public Policy professor, wrote about those topics, his recent piece from government executive, how the president expanded his power without a government, without a legislative branch, creating a vacuum for the executive branch to expand its powers.
		That's the thesis of his piece, and we're going to go through it starting at 9:15 a.m.
		So the questions you ask, the topics you bring up, it's literally the last 45 minutes of the show.
unidentified		Thank you.
		All right.
		So listen to it.
		Thank you.
		Bye-bye.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Barbara in New York City.
		Back to Philly.
		Jack, Independent.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hey, good morning, John.
		I just got to give it to you.
		Taking calls from you got small business owners that think they're Superman and they'll never need to go to a doctor and never need to go to an emergency room.
		And you got other people not concerned about 43 million people losing their supplemental food assistance and they're worried about aliens.
		I have to give it to you to take these calls.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What are you worried about, Jack?
unidentified		So, I mean, you know, I have a good job.
		I have money.
		I have insurance through my employer, and I care about people who don't.
		And that's what I care about.
		So to just go over the history of what's going on, you have a continuing resolution that was done by the Democrats, and the Republicans just want to pass that.
		That's great.
		The Republicans didn't redo anything.
		They just want to pass that.
		That's fine.
		But this other program is running out.
		So why not renew that?
		And I mean, I have patients that have letters being mailed to them that their insurance is going from $363 a month to $1,000 a month.
		So, I mean, that's horrible.
		So, you're taking that away from 20 million people, that'll affect.
		And then, on top of that, with the SNAP benefits being taken from 43 million people, I mean, Trump's all fit to pay the military.
		I don't understand why he can't release the already allocated funds for the SNAP programs.
		It seems like this administration has no problem with hurting the poor, the sick, and the people who want to get health insurance.
		I don't have anything against that guy who didn't want to buy health insurance.
		It wasn't feasible for him.
		But he doesn't put himself in other people's shoes who said, it benefits me to go out and have medical coverage for my family.
		I'm glad to have the Affordable Care Act.
		If they pay $400 a month, they're paying probably $3,500 a year.
		They can go to the doctor.
		They don't have to worry about getting a sports injury.
		People get injured.
		That has to do with your health care, too.
		So even when you're trying to keep yourself fit, you can still hurt yourself and sprain an ankle or break a bone or fall off your bicycle.
		And then what do you do?
		Then you're paying out of pocket.
		I've had stories of people who, you know, they've used the emergency room.
		I work in a trauma center that is in a low-income area.
		These people use the emergency room as their doctors, and they're left with huge bills when accidents happen.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What do you do in a trauma center, Jack?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What's your job?
unidentified		So I work in an emergency department.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		And what do you do there?
unidentified		So they employ paramedics in the emergency department.
unidentified		So I basically triage anyone who comes in and has any cardiac issues or I do their EKG and draw labs and then I whisk them up to the cardiac cath lab if they're having a heart attack or anything like this.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, can I ask you about your job, Jack?
		When you do that, when somebody comes in in an emergency situation, what do you try to find out about that person?
		Do you try to find out anything about the person?
		There's been discussions about illegal immigrants using emergency rooms for health care and concern that that is a form of health insurance that people who are not citizens of this country make use of and that they are they're getting around the system that way.
		What are your thoughts on that debate?
unidentified		So, I mean, I know when they come in, they give their information when they put their flips in at the triage greet where they come into the emergency room, unless they're brought in by ambulance.
		But in my experience, we don't treat anybody differently.
		I just, I know that their information is taken prior to me seeing them.
		So I try to treat, and others I work with try to treat the patients like they're our family members.
		And I treat everyone like I treat my mother.
		Like that, you come through.
		I don't care if you're black, white, brown, Muslim, Christian, none of that matters.
		Everybody gets sick and people that think differently, it's just not based in reality.
		You're going to get sick.
		You're going to get hurt one day.
		And that's it.
		As far as their insurance or whether they're illegal or not, I never thought about it.
		I mean, I'm bilingual.
		I speak Spanish.
		Some of our patients speak Spanish.
		So that comes in handy.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		You don't think about it at all of how is this person going to pay for this?
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, you know, the ER is going to treat you no matter what, whether you can pay or not.
		It's not like we're going to say, you know, you have to get out of here.
		I think it's a law.
		It's just moral to me.
		If you're going to come in and you're hurt, we're going to take care of you.
		But there are stories of people who, you know, they don't know how they're going to pay.
		They're not aware of how much it's going to be.
		Some of our doctors, they try to do the, you know, the cheapest treatment.
		They could do a million-dollar cardiac workup on you.
		But they're not going to do that to somebody that appears to be, you know, out on their luck and they try to get them through quickly and affordably, I guess is what I'm trying to say.
		You know, they're not going to.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		So there is that money factor that comes in.
unidentified		Sure, yeah, yeah.
		I mean, we, yeah, I mean, like I said, we treat everybody, but I know some doctors talk about other doctors who, you know, don't pay attention to that and will do an extensive workup on somebody when they're pretty sure that the person doesn't have insurance.
		I mean, I've heard people ask, you know, do you have a prescription plan?
		Because they'll have certain medications are cheaper and one might be more financially feasible for the patient.
		So we take that into consideration.
		But I don't really hear a whole lot of people ask if the patient has insurance.
		You know, I think asking that question would indicate to the patient that you're going to be treated one way if you have insurance and another way if you don't.
		So I think that's why we don't do it.
		I just don't do it because it just doesn't matter to me.
		Like, you know, if I was the patient and someone asked me, do I have insurance, I'm going to feel a certain way.
		Like, why, if I don't, are you going to treat me worse than someone that did?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Jack, thanks for talking about it out of Philadelphia.
		Just a few minutes left here.
		I've got a few other folks I want to get to.
		This is Ed's Been Waiting.
		Pleasant Valley, New York, Republican.
		Ed, go ahead.
unidentified		Good morning.
		On this medical thing, I myself, I had an emergency two years ago, and I had no insurance because I had lost my job.
		I went to the emergency room.
		They asked me about my insurance.
		I had insurance all my life until I lost my job.
		And they made me sit in a corner.
		The EMT that brought me there told me if I don't get service right away, I'm going to lose my one eye.
		Told them that.
		Thank God somebody in my family had a great friend that is a heart doctor in our local hospital.
		And I didn't even meet the guy.
		He was out there screaming at everybody to get me in there and get services done.
		Okay, but I was set aside by the personnel that said, you know, check your insurance.
		And besides all that, this state of New York has more money to take care of everybody but us, the citizens of the state.
		I worked all my life.
		I'm 71 years old.
		I just laid out almost $15,000 for school tax in my local area.
		I mean, this money, there's a lot of money.
		I mean, we were flying them in for four years of the Biden administration, every airport in New York State.
		Supposedly, there's 250,000 immigrants in this state.
		Kathy Hochul is looking for $2.5 billion to house and take care of, as she calls them, our migrant citizens.
		What about us?
		What about the people in this state?
		I mean, I worked all my life, and I'm trying to hang on everything I worked for, but it's almost impossible.
		I mean, right now you can't even build a house without making it all electric.
		We can't afford the electric bills.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What line of work were you in?
unidentified		Mechanic, to do mechanic work for all my life.
		And, you know, it's like, and you know what?
		And there was a fellow from Pennsylvania that called.
		You know, back in the 70s, the 70s were hard.
		I paid 18% for my little house.
		18% interest.
		I worked two jobs seven days a week, my wife also.
		I mean, you can do it.
		People just don't want to go out and do the work.
		I mean, I was living on peanuts to keep my house and raise a family.
		And in the 70s, it was tough times, just like it is now.
		I mean, the interest rate is even, I paid 18% interest on my little house.
		You know, so there's a way to do it.
		But for some reason, we, the people, the American people, we've been shoved aside.
		And it's from coast to coast.
		I mean, four years of what went on and millions of people that they're trying to tell us we weren't seeing what was going on.
		I see it in my little town.
		That's why my school taxes are so high.
		It's out of control.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Ed in Pleasant Valley.
		This is Edna in Illinois, Democrat.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		I don't really have a lot of sympathy for the people that voted for Donald Trump.
		They knew what he was when he came down that escalator.
		Still, they voted for him.
		If you had voted for Kamala Harris, that 300,000 people whom they have laid off from their jobs, they will still have them.
		They looked at her as a black and as a woman.
		They would have still had their jobs.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		Bye-bye.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Edna, do you think Kamala Harris should run again in 2028?
unidentified		Not in 28, but I think she should try maybe in 32.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Why do you want her to wait to 32?
unidentified		Because there's a lot of hostility toward her now.
		So she has to prove herself to us again.
		But this guy, I can't even describe him.
		And I want to ask you one thing.
		Why is he being allowed to put all that cheap gold in the White House looking like a cheap casino?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Edna in Illinois.
		Edna, you, to that question and your description of it, here is today's front page of the Wall Street Journal.
		And you may be interested in this article, how Donald Trump barreled through the red tape to get his ballroom.
		Just the crux of it, I'll give to you.
		The story starts in July, they write, with a terse email from the White House to three members of the 12-person planning board who were appointed by former President Joe Biden.
		On behalf of President Donald Trump, I am writing to inform you that your position as commissioner on the National Capital Planning Commission is terminated effective immediately.
		Thank you for your service.
		And in their place, President Trump installed his own panel of loyalists, they write, including senior White House officials, giving Republicans control over a little-known body that has an outsized influence on the historic White House complex.
		The National Capital Planning Commission has raised no public objections to his plan to remodel the most famous residents in the world.
		And if you want to dive more into it, that story is a front page story in the Wall Street Journal today.
		Rachel, Florida, Republican, you're next.
		Just about a minute and a half left here.
unidentified		Yes, hello.
		I just don't understand people calling and say, just throw the money at this shutdown.
		Pay this trillion dollars so we can get this shutdown over.
		We are $37 trillion in debt, which that doesn't mean we got that money in the bank.
		That means we are minus $37 trillion.
		We don't have any money.
		You know, basically, we have no money.
		I don't understand why people say, oh, yeah, let's just keep throwing this money so we can get the shutdown over.
		And you know what?
		And you know who has done this to us?
		Congress.
		They have put us $37 trillion in debt.
		And you know who else is the cause of this?
		Us.
		We're the people who voted these people in, and we keep voting the same people in.
		It's ridiculous.
		It's about our grandchildren that we're selling out.
		It's us.
		We're going to be the ones that go the way of Venezuela.
		We're going to have to have a whole barrel full of money to pay for a carton of milk.
		If we keep this up, it's ridiculous.
		We have to stop and think we have no money.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Got your point, Rachel.
		Let me try to get in.
		Gordon from Maryland, Independent, last caller in this first segment.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		Good morning.
		I see all this stuff going on, but I see a lot of people in the Senate and also announced saying that they're Christians.
		I see them not really telling the truth.
		So I asked them to read these three chapters in the Bible.
		The 15th chapter of Proverbs.
		I mean, the 15th chapter of Psalm, Proverbs, the 6th chapter, and the 16th verse, and Revelation, the 21st chapter, and the 8th verse.
		If they think or looking to go to heaven and telling lies, then I'm sorry.
		They are definitely on the wrong track because you can't be lying to the people and call yourself a Christian.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Gordon in Maryland, our last caller in this first segment of the Washington Journal.
		Stick around, plenty more to talk about.
		Later this morning, we will talk to the University of Maryland public policy professor Philip Joyce about how the government shutdown has been used to expand executive branch power over budgetary matters.
		But next, after the break, it's government executive staff reporter Sean Michael Newhouse will look at the disparate impacts of the government shutdown based on Americans' zip codes and political affiliations.
		Stick around for that conversation right after the break.
unidentified		Watch America's Book Club, C-SPAN's bold new original series.
		This Sunday with our guest Pulitzer Prize winner, Stacey Schiff, author of biographies, including Ben Franklin, Samuel Adams, and Cleopatra.
		She joins our host, renowned author and civic leader David Rubenstein.
		So writing a second book on Franklin, you must admire him.
david rubenstein ▲ ● ▼		I assume you don't want to write two books on somebody you don't admire, but you do admire him.
stacy schiff ▲ ● ▼		I feel as if he is in all ways admirable in so many ways.
		Just the essential DNA of America.
		His voice is the voice of America, literally.
unidentified		Watch America's Book Club with Stacey Schiff.
		Sundays at 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific.
		Only on C-SPAN.
brian lamb ▲ ● ▼		The book is called Breakneck, China's Quest to Engineer the Future.
		Author Dan Wong was born in China in 1992.
		His parents moved to Canada when he was seven.
		In 2014, he graduated from the University of Rochester in New York.
		Then in 2018, Dan Wong went to live in China until he returned to the U.S. in 2023.
		He then went to the offices of the Yale Law School and wrote about his comparison of China and the United States.
		He writes in his intro, quote, a strain of materialism, often crass, runs through both countries, sometimes producing variations of successful entrepreneurs, sometimes creating displays of extraordinary tastelessness, but overall contributing to a spirit of vigorous competition.
unidentified		Author Dan Wong with his book, Breakneck, China's Quest to Engineer the Future, on this episode of BookNotes Plus with our host, Brian Lamb.
		BookNotes Plus is available wherever you get your podcasts and on the C-SPAN Now app.
		Washington Journal continues.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		A focus now on who is and isn't being impacted by the government shutdown.
		Sean Michael Newhouse is a staff reporter for government executive.
		He's combed through several recent reports on that topic.
		And one of the key findings, Sean Newhouse, is that political party affiliation plays a big role in whether people perceive that they've been impacted by the shutdown or not.
		Explain that.
unidentified		Absolutely.
		So let's start with the organization who conducted the survey.
		The Partnership for Public Service is a nonpartisan, nonprofit, good government group.
		And as part of their duties, they conduct surveys regularly on how the public perceives government.
		So shutdown is happening.
		They did a survey on it.
		And I should note this was in the second week of the shutdown.
		We're now in the fourth.
		But what they found, they asked the respondents if the shutdown impacted people in your community.
		And 48% total of respondents said that their community was impacted by the shutdown.
		Big partisan difference.
		So we've got 69% of Democrats agree with that statement compared with 27% of Republicans and then 38% of Independents in the middle.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		And we could put those numbers on the screen for our visual learners out there.
		You mentioned that's the second week of the shutdown.
		Is government executive following up on that?
		How do they expect when we have these kind of surveys?
		You get a better understanding when you see them move over time.
		So is there a follow-up survey coming on this?
unidentified		Yeah, that is a very good question that I will probably have to ask the organization after this interview ends.
		But I did, when they first released this survey, you know, I saw this big partisan split and I had a couple thoughts on why that might be, but I asked them, you know, why do you think this happened?
		And the research manager responded to me and said, basically, that personal politics impact how you perceive government.
		So he pointed me to another recent report that the organization did and that I cover.
		Every year they look at trust in government.
		So 2024 compared to 2025, 2024, last year of Biden, 10% of Republicans said they trusted the government.
		2025, first year of Trump, that number has increased to 42%.
		There's been a similar then decrease with Democrats.
		This is not an exclusive one-party phenomenon.
		So again, how one's politics perceives how you impact the government.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		And also one zip code perceives how much you've been impacted by the shutdown.
		Wallet Hub with another report on that topic.
		What did Wallet Hub find?
unidentified		Yes, and I thought their methodology was really clever.
		So they looked at to determine which states were most impacted by the shutdown.
		They looked at the percentage of workers in that state who were federal workers, and they looked at federal contract dollars spend per capita in the state, which made a lot of sense to me.
		But they looked at some other factors that I didn't initially consider that I thought was rather clever.
		They looked at the percentage of individuals in the state who rely on SNAP food stamps.
		We know that that benefit is set to expire at the end of the month.
		They looked at real estate as a percentage of the state's gross economy.
		The shutdown affects any housing agency.
		Their operations might be completely shut down.
		Or at the very least, it's probably just that their work has been slow.
		So they looked at that.
		And they also looked at the number of national parks in the state because whether a park is closed varies park by park.
		At the very least, most of their operations have been affected by the shutdown.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		And you mentioned the SNAP news, the administration announcing that there wasn't going to be additional money for that when those benefits run out.
		We'll see if that holds.
		But I think the number is something like 47 million Americans who make use of SNAP.
		Here's from Wallet Hub: the percentage of families in each state that receive SNAP benefits.
		The states with the highest percentage of families receiving SNAP benefits, New Mexico, the District of Columbia, Louisiana, West Virginia, and Oregon, the states with the lowest percentage of families receiving SNAP benefits, Kansas, North Dakota, New Hampshire, Utah, and Wyoming.
		New Mexico comes up as one of those states that if you live there, you're feeling this government shutdown more.
		What are some of the other states?
unidentified		Yes, so unsurprisingly, D.C. was the state that, well, not state, city, Wallet Hub determined was the most impacted because D.C. has the highest percentage of workers who work for the government, also the highest amount of federal contract dollars per capita.
		You mentioned New Mexico, they determined that was the third most affected.
		It is the state with the highest percentage of its residents who are SNAP participants.
		Also, it has one of the highest numbers, federal contract dollars per capita, New Mexico.
		And then number two, you might think Maryland or Virginia would be number two, number three, but actually Hawaii was number two.
		That's because they have a relatively high percentage of workers in Hawaii work for the federal government.
		Fourth of its economy relies on real estate.
		And then unsurprisingly, Hawaii has a lot of national parks.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What's your read on why New Hampshire, Nebraska, Indiana, Iowa, and Minnesota are the states with the lowest level of impact, at least according to this set of statistics?
unidentified		Yes, I wouldn't say I have any particular read.
		I did notice looking at the states that were least impacted, they did tend to be in the Midwest, but it's just because of the factors that Wallet Hub determined to use, determine which states had the most impact.
		They just had lower scores.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Federal contract dollars per capita is another one of those factors that Wallet Hub used here.
		The states with the most per capita, the District of Columbia, unsurprisingly, number one, Virginia and Maryland, right around the federal government capital, New Mexico and Connecticut, the states with the lowest federal contract dollars per capita, Nebraska, Arkansas, Oregon, Minnesota, there it is, and Delaware.
		Asking you, our viewers, this morning, are you being impacted by the government shutdown?
		Give us a call.
		Sean Newhouse joins us for this conversation.
		He's been following some of these different reports on it.
		Here's how you can join the conversation.
		Republicans, it's 202-748-8001.
		Democrats, 202-748-8000.
		And Independents, 202748-8002.
		As people are calling in on that, switch gears for me.
		Another topic that you've been following, agencies, inspectors general.
		For folks who haven't been tracking it, what's been happening to the executive branch core of inspectors general in the second Trump administration?
unidentified		Absolutely.
		So let's start with what inspectors general are.
		So several agencies have inspectors general, and they lead offices of offices of staff ranging from dozens of employees to hundreds.
		And their job is to root out waste, fraud, and abuse in the agencies.
		So they issue reports that look at the effectiveness of agency programs.
		Individuals can submit whistleblower complaints.
		They may investigate those.
		And I covered Congress before this current job, and it was very rare that you would watch a congressional markup where a member of Congress, either side, would not bring up information referenced by an inspector general.
		They were really heralded as kind of the pinnacle of nonpartisanship.
		And what has been happening to your second question?
		So the first Friday of Trump's second term, he fired 17 agency inspectors general.
		The month after in February, he removed the Inspector General for the U.S. Agency for International Development.
		That's an agency that has been effectively eliminated.
		It's been folded into the State Department.
		That Inspector General had warned that the layoffs at that agency were going to make it harder to perform oversight of foreign aid after that memo was issued.
		They were removed.
		And then just two weeks ago, the Inspector General for the Export Import Bank was fired by the President.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What is the Export-Import Bank?
unidentified		Yes, the Export-Import Bank.
		I'm actually glad you asked that question because I knew the name, but I didn't actually know what they did until I was reporting this.
		They help companies with exporting.
		They provide financing.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Why is Chuck Grassley the photo that went along with this latest story on the XM, as they call it, bank inspector general firing?
unidentified		Yes.
		So Senator Chuck Grassley, a longtime Republican Iowa senator, has also been a longtime defender of Inspectors General.
		He was the person who, for the most part, publicly announced that the Inspector General for the XM Export Import Bank was fired.
		And in his ex post, he said that the president, like the firings earlier this year, did not notify Congress as required.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		So is he saying what the president did is illegal?
unidentified		Well, that's a question that I actually just covered in the Inspector General confirmation hearing last week, and the senator asked nominees that question.
		So, well, let's start with what the requirement is.
		So in 2008, Congress required the president, so the president can remove the inspector general.
		Let's just be clear about that.
		But in 2008, Congress required that the president had to give Congress 30-day notice before removing an inspector general.
		And then in 2002, they expanded that requirement to say the president had to provide the substantive rationale for the removal.
		So it wasn't enough to just say, hey, I'm firing this guy in a month.
		I have to explain why to Congress.
		So that did not happen.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		And why would Congress want to know that?
		What does that do for Congress?
		How is this?
		I imagine it's Congress sort of protecting the legislative branch powers, but how?
unidentified		Absolutely.
		Well, I think it gets to controversy.
		So agency inspectors general are political appointees, but they're not political appointees in the classical sense.
		They are, well, legally required, but also kind of traditionally expected to have some independence from the administration.
		They perform oversight on the administration, so the expectation is that if something critical or bad would come out about the administration, that they would still report that information fairly and accurately.
		So when it gets to if inspector general removed, then a lot of questions is, okay, why were they removed?
		You know, what might the administration be trying to cover up?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Who do inspectors general report to?
unidentified		Well, I guess they would probably say Congress, the president, and the American people.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		But not the head of the agency of which they are the inspector general.
unidentified		That gets into kind of thorny legal issues, but they are, again, expected to have some degree of separation between the agency head.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What has been President Trump's reaction to criticism?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Is that a fair way to describe from Chuck Grassley?
unidentified		I would say it goes beyond Chuck Grassley.
		Certainly most Congressional Democrats, many good government groups, you know, every time I write on Inspectors General, I have to reach out to the White House for comment.
		And I mentioned that Inspectors General used to be heralded as these kind of pinnacles of nonpartisanship.
		The Trump administration, this term, has called them partisan, corrupt, said they lied to the public.
		So certainly a rhetorical shift on the part of the Trump administration.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What do we know about the appointed or nominated inspectors general for the departments of defense, labor, and the small business administration?
unidentified		Yes, so that was actually the hearing last week that I covered.
		I think the most notable is the nominee for the Labor Department Inspector General.
		That's former Representative Diaz Bosito.
		He was a New York Republican one term, lost his re-election race.
		So just the fact that he is a former congressman is surprising because again, it is expected that inspectors general are not political figures.
		Historically, they have served across terms.
		If a Democrat's next president, if Diaz Posito is concerned and if a Democrat is the next president, I have a hard time seeing him staying under that administration.
		But also, Diaz Posito had accused of an ethical lapse when he was a congressman.
		The New York Times reported that he allegedly hired his fiancé's daughter and also a woman with whom he was having an affair.
		So both his political history and that kind of ethical scandal definitely played a role in that hearing.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		A lot on the table there.
		Inspectors general and also these reports on the impact of the government shutdown.
		Sean Newhouse, our guest of government executive, a staff reporter there, covers all of this.
		It's govexec.com if you want to see his and his colleagues' work.
		Or you can give us a phone call like George did out of the Garden State of New Jersey.
		Independent, George, you're on with Sean Newhouse.
unidentified		I'm here.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		I'm here.
		Well, my comment is on the impact of the government shutdown.
		And it seems to me it's a political move just to take care of the Obamacare situation, possible increase.
		Now, I'm a retired 81-year-old, and my wife is 79.
		We do live on a fixed income, but we pay for our own insurance, and it costs us over $12,000 a year out of pocket for a supplemental program and for ABCD, I'm sorry, for D, for pharmaceuticals.
		So I'm paying a lot of money with no supplement from the United States government.
		My son at one time was on Obamacare and found it totally, totally inadequate to take care of him.
		Fortunately, he's a younger person and didn't have any health issues.
		My point here is, why are they holding us hostage for $1.5, $1.7 trillion, whatever the figure may be, to support a program provided by people who give donations to politicians?
		And I feel that's what it's all about.
		If they would only remove the boundaries from states and make the health care companies compete with each other for my dollar, we'd be better off.
		That's my point.
		Now we shut down the government because one side wants to keep their little boondoggle going because they're supported by health care companies.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Georgie, are you feeling the government shutdowns impacts where you are?
		What is it?
		Bogota, New Jersey?
		Am I saying it correctly?
unidentified		Yes, yes.
		I see it.
		I see my neighbors.
		I have two neighbors who are air traffic controllers.
		They're not going to be paid.
		They did tell me they're going to go to work, but they say their colleagues are up in the air whether they should report in, whether they should call sick.
		And air traffic control is a critical thing for this country.
		We live near Peterborough Airport.
		I have aircraft flying over my home all the time.
		That's the backbone of industry.
		That's keeping people working.
		All those airline employees that are going to be affected by reduced schedules, the airport employees that are going to be affected by reduced schedules because they'll all be furloughed.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		George said.
unidentified		And this is all to keep this Obamacare boondoggle going.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		George, thanks for the call from the Zoom.
		From New Jersey, George, I want to let Sean Newhouse jump in.
		Have you covered much on air traffic controllers and kind of where, what happens in the next couple weeks if this goes another couple weeks?
		Uh, on that front with the shutdown?
unidentified		Yes, so I haven't, but my uh colleagues have, and there was a detail and a story.
		It was about how federal employees are and government executive we cover federal employees.
		This is our bread and butter.
		It was how federal employees are responding to this financially, uh, not getting paid, many of them.
		And uh, my colleague interviewed an air traffic controller and he said, some of his colleagues they're working six days a week.
		Again, they're not getting paid for this work at the moment because of the shutdown, and then on their day off they're ubering.
		Uh, you know they're driving for uber, so that's definitely not a situation you want people to be in.
		Uh, I know in the 2019 shutdown it's been widely I believe it was 2019 shutdown it's been widely said that uh, when air traffic controllers started not showing up for work in greater numbers, that kind of prompted Congress to come to a resolution.
		So yes, air traffic controllers have definitely historically been one group of federal employees who are looked at as far as the consequences of the shutdown 2018 to 2019.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		It lasted 35 days.
		We are at day 27 of this shutdown, the second longest in history.
		Taking your phone calls with Sean Newhouse of government executive.
		Govexec.com is where you can go for his and his colleagues work.
		This is Ted in New Hampshire.
		Democrat Ted.
		Good morning to the Granite State.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Yes, I got a question.
		Um, I live in New Hampshire, I have blue cross blue shield and Massachusetts has blue cross blue shield.
		The difference in coverage is based on zip code.
		Why can't it be universal?
		Why don't I get the same coverage as Massachusetts and why can't it be nationally?
		And I notice when they do the ads on the bottom, uh, it's all based on your zip code.
		Why do they do it in such a blurry small print on the bottom?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Ted uh, how do you feel?
		We had a caller earlier today who was very concerned about the idea of of a universal health care system, of a single-payer system, of the government running health care you talk about.
		Why can't it be a universal price?
		How much uh, how concerned are you about that?
		Is that something that you would support?
		No, we lost Ted.
		He hung up.
		Uh, but something you cover much at all or no health care?
unidentified		No, I do relate personally to the small print at the bottom of health care forms.
		But uh yes, like the previous caller said, I think his assessment is correct.
		The affordable, the expiring Affordable Care Act subsidies are the main cause of the shutdown.
		I wouldn't say that's the only reason.
		Uh, Democrats so far haven't provided the votes.
		Uh, to pass the Go P-backed continuing resolution.
		But uh again, Wallet Hub's analysis didn't look at health care coverage.
		But if these subsidies for Affordable Care Act do expire, I think that would be another factor as far as determining which states are most affected by affected by the shutdown or the consequences of the shutdown.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Taking your phone calls for another couple minutes with Sean New House OF Government Executive, UH, to hear from you about the impact of the government shutdown or, if you have questions about inspectors general, a good guy To ask those questions too.
		He's been covering it rather extensively during the second Trump administration.
		202-748-8000 for Democrats.
		Republicans, 202-748-8001.
		Independents, 202-748-8002.
		As people keep calling in, what are you working on this week at GovExec?
unidentified		Sure.
		What am I working on this week?
		Well, I think with the shutdown, it is a day-by-day, you know, whatever the president announces obviously warrants coverage.
		More of Trump's Inspector General, Inspector's General nominees are getting through the confirmation process, so I'll be looking at those.
		Also, last week there was a deregulatory memo.
		I don't want to bring up a completely new topic to your audience.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		We've got some time.
unidentified		Sure.
		Trump came into office with a pretty ambitious goal as far as deregulation.
		Last week, his administration put out a memo that kind of looks at how that is going to work in practice.
		Anyone who's familiar with the regulatory process knows that whether you're making a regulation, deregulation, it usually prompts a lawsuit.
		So very, very complicated subject.
		I personally find it interesting.
		It's very important as regulations often are how laws, you know, actually take effect, how it actually impacts people.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		With regulation, whenever this would come up in the past, this act that has been around for a long time, I think it's called the Rains Act.
		Regulations that have an economic impact, I think it was over $100 million.
		There was a law proposed that Congress would have to vote on those individual regulations.
		What's the status of that?
		Has that come back up in the second Trump administration?
unidentified		I was about to say I don't know what you're talking about, but as you're talking, I'm like, this is ringing a bell.
		And this was an act, you said, so not allowed yet.
		Actually, I don't think I have, I would, you'd think if that was introduced, I'd get a press release about it.
		I haven't yet, but I'll have to look into that if that has been introduced.
		With Republican Congress, that I don't know if it probably wouldn't get past filibuster in the Senate, but that you'd think that might be a bill that Congressional Republicans would be spotlighting.
		Yeah.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Certainly one that we have talked about in years past here on the Washington Journal, but it might be time for another segment on it.
		This is Linwood out of Beltsville, Maryland, Independent.
		Linwood, good morning.
		You're on with Sean Newhouse.
unidentified		Good morning to speak to you all.
		I have a comment in regards to Inspector General's, the Inspector General for the Department of Justice.
		Is there one in place at this point in time?
		As well as I have a comment, I've been reaching out to the United States Attorney for Washington, D.C., Pirro, as well as I would think she would pipe my information over to the Department of Justice because there's an employee with the Department of Justice for whom fraudulently used government funds on an absurd amount of occasions for which I propose to terminate.
		And she's an attorney with the United States Attorney's Office out at D.C.
		And in that particular regard, and unfortunately, I was terminated because I proposed her termination and I was retaliated against as a whistleblower.
		So just reaching out and just trying to navigate the system is how difficult it is to just seek justice and particularly desperate impacts in this particular season, for which I'm actively pursuing.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Linwood in Beltsville, Maryland.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What do you want to follow up on?
unidentified		Yes, and I didn't immediately review this, but if my memory is correct, I forget his first name, but Horowitz was the Inspector General at the Justice Department.
		He is no longer there.
		The deputy then became the acting inspector general.
		Trump then put a different person in the acting inspector general position.
		That has been a separate controversy.
		However, in this case, I do not believe I'm relying on a Bloomberg article here, so cite my sources, but I don't believe there was anything particularly controversial about the current acting Inspector General at the Justice Department.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Michael Horowitz, the former.
unidentified		I was going to say Anthony, so Michael Horowitz, that's his name.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That process that the viewer was talking about in terms of whistleblowers and when and why they would go to an inspector general versus other routes.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Just how much can you tell us about the process of inspectors general and their interaction with individual federal employees?
unidentified		Absolutely.
		So I can't speak too much about the process, but I'm still really glad you asked that question.
		So as I mentioned, inspectors general traditionally and also by law are supposed to have some degree of independence from the agencies they work at or the agencies that they audit.
		So a whistleblower might be more inclined to go to an inspector general because of that independence.
		And the good government groups have warned that with these firings of inspectors general, it is prob, they say, they argue is going to have a chilling effect on whistleblowers being willing to come forward.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		We try to get in one more call out of Texas.
		It's Jim Lynn for Democrats.
		Jim, good morning.
		You're on with Sean Newhouse.
unidentified		Yes, I'd like to speak about how all this is in effect.
		If everything we're discussing here today is ineffective, Donald Trump has already taken over the federal government and anything is muted.
		Sir?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		I'm listening to you, Jim.
unidentified		Oh, man, and I think what the American public needs to prepare themselves for is a government controlled by Donald Trump and Donald Trump alone.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Jim's thoughts out of Texas.
		Do actually have another call from Virginia.
		This is Eddie Independent.
		Eddie, go ahead.
unidentified		Yeah, good morning.
		Hey, I just have a question for you, guests.
		As it relates to Inspector Generals, how do we square $130 billion being given anonymously for our military and also $40 billion being given to Argentina during a government shutdown?
		I mean, how do we square that as a government and the people?
		Thank you.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Sean Newhouse.
unidentified		Sure.
		So I don't, I think the donor for the military has been revealed.
		I believe it's Mellon, but that was anonymous for a time.
		But yeah, that is a matter where I could foresee an Inspector General would look into that to make sure that because they weren't providing those millions of dollars, they weren't then receiving any favor from the government.
		And this is what the good government groups would say: is that when you have when the president has kind of an adversarial relationship with, or I should say more adversarial relationship with the inspectors general, that might make the people who work in these oversight offices less inclined to pursue those potentially high-profile cases.
		And again, I'm not saying that there's anything untoward about what happened just yet, but that I could see that being something an inspector general might look into depending on the circumstances.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		But when it comes to a funding issue like that, couldn't Congress always hold hearings and investigations?
		They control the purse strings.
		Isn't this something that Congress could look into?
		It's not the first job of the Inspector General, isn't it, Congress, that that's part of their job as the legislative branch?
unidentified		Yes, that is a great point.
		And there's probably a joke here to be made about congressional experts say that Congress doesn't really hold hearings anymore.
		That might be too niche of a joke even for a C-SPAN.
		But you're absolutely right.
		Congress absolutely can do oversight on their own.
		That being said, having done this for a couple of years, many members of Congress describe the Inspectors General as their eyes and ears in the agency.
		Members of Congress have a lot of responsibilities, not just in their legislative role, but also as politicians, whereas Inspectors General and the teams that they leave are actually in these agencies, have a lot of influence, authority to be able to investigate these matters, and then Congress is able to use that information.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		For much more on Inspectors General, Sean Newhouse covers the issue for government executive.
		It's govexec.com to see his work.
		And we appreciate your time this morning.
unidentified		Absolutely.
unidentified		Thank you so much.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Later this morning on the Washington Journal, we'll talk to University of Maryland public policy professor Philip Joyce about how the government shutdown has expanded executive branch power over budgetary matters.
		But next after the break, it's open forum.
		Any public policy issue, any political issue that you want to talk about, phone lines are yours.
		The numbers are on your screen.
		Go ahead and start calling in now and we'll get to those calls right after the break.
brian lamb ▲ ● ▼		The book is called Breakneck, China's Quest to Engineer the Future.
		Author Dan Wong was born in China in 1992.
		His parents moved to Canada when he was seven.
		In 2014, he graduated from the University of Rochester in New York.
		Then in 2018, Dan Wong went to live in China until he returned to the U.S. in 2023.
		He then went to the offices of the Yale Law School and wrote about his comparison of China and the United States.
		He writes in his intro: A strain of materialism, often crass, runs through both countries, sometimes producing variations of successful entrepreneurs, sometimes creating displays of extraordinary tastelessness, but overall contributing to a spirit of vigorous competition.
unidentified		Author Dan Wong with his book Breakneck: China's Quest to Engineer the Future on this episode of BookNotes Plus with our host, Brian Lamb.
		BookNotes Plus is available wherever you get your podcasts and on the C-SPAN Now app.
		America marks 250 years, and C-SPAN is there to commemorate every moment.
		From the signing of the Declaration of Independence to the voices shaping our nation's future, we bring you unprecedented all-platform coverage, exploring the stories, sights, and spirit that make up America.
		Join us for remarkable coast-to-coast coverage, celebrating our nation's journey like no other network can.
		America 250.
		Over a year of historic moments.
		Only on the C-SPAN networks.
		C-SPANshop.org is C-SPAN's online store.
		Browse through our latest collection of C-SPAN products, apparel, books, home decor, and accessories.
		There's something for every C-SPAN fan, and every purchase helps support our nonprofit operations.
		Shop now or anytime at c-span shop.org.
		Washington Journal continues.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		And time now for our open forum.
		Any public policy issue, any political issue that you want to talk about, now's the time to call in.
		Republicans 202-748-8001.
		Democrats 202-748-8000.
		Independents 202-748-8002.
		And on this day 27 of the government shutdown, also a special line for federal employees.
		202748-8003 is the number that we've set aside for federal employees.
		Happy to talk to you again on this 27th day of the government shutdown.
		Here's what's going on today on Capitol Hill, despite the shutdown.
		At 10 a.m. Eastern, after this program ends, we are going to go to a press conference by Speaker Mike Johnson.
		He will be joined by Small Business Administration Head Kelly Loeffler for that discussion.
		You can watch immediately after this program here on C-SPAN, also on c-span.org and the free C-SPAN Now video app.
		And later today, two former Justice Department officials discuss whether the DOJ has become too politicized in recent years.
		That's conversation happening at 4 p.m. Eastern here on C-SPAN, C-SPAN.org, and the free C-SPAN Now app.
		This evening, Maryland Senator Chris Van Holland, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, is going to talk about the future of American diplomacy and the humanitarian situation in Gaza.
		6:30 p.m. Eastern Time.
		Again, here on C-SPAN, C-SPAN.org and C-SPANNOW.
		Plenty going on, and there's been plenty happening already today.
		President Trump is overseas.
		He landed this morning in Tokyo.
		He's meeting with Japan's emperor today.
		He's set to meet tomorrow with Japan's new prime minister.
		And then all eyes later this week will be on his upcoming meeting with President Xi Jinping of China.
		That's expected to take place in South Korea at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Summit that's taking place.
		Some news yesterday on that front from the Treasury Secretary on the Sunday shows noting that a trade deal with China is within reach.
		The stage has now been set for the Trump G meeting expectations of a trade deal that could avert an additional 100% tariff that President Trump had threatened to impose on imports from China.
		As the Washington Post notes, it would be a highly anticipated economic deal between the world's two largest economies.
		That's what's going on today.
		We're taking your phone calls in open forum.
		Samuel is up first out of California, Republican line.
		Samuel, good morning.
		What's on your mind?
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		Yeah, I was watching the mayor's race in New York City.
		I can't believe how they could put Mandami in there.
		I mean, he said he's going to tax the rich.
		Everything's going to be free in there and everything.
		And, you know, I don't know where he's going to get the money because most of the people there that are multi-billionaires, they're moving down to Florida.
		He's not going to find the money.
		So I don't know.
		I don't understand what's going on.
		I don't know why they don't put a good Republican as a mayor in New York City to get it all straightened out and then get more police officers in there.
		And then he's talking about when people are committing crimes and everything and people have mental problems and everything.
		He's going to send people over there to talk to him.
		You know, I don't understand what they're trying to do there.
		Anyway, you send those people over there, social workers over there, you have to send a policeman behind them because in case those people go crazy, they're going to hurt somebody.
		But you have to have a policeman there, and there ain't going to be a policeman there available.
		So what I'm thinking of.
		Oh, anyways, the government shut down.
		That's a terrible thing.
		I think that Senator Schumer, yeah, he ought to just retire because it's not AOC trying to chase his job because he screwed up when he made the big, great, big, great New Deal and everything.
		You know, that was a, I don't know what was going on, but he signed that bill.
		He was done when he did that.
		So just retire.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Got you.
		Got your point out of California and the Golden State to the Old Dominion.
		This is Lee, Democrat.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Thank you, first time caller.
		The Democrats have failed the country and failed the American people.
		Their lack of messaging is destructive.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Lee, you say that as a Democrat.
unidentified		Yes, yes.
		Their lack of messaging is destructive.
		They have not been speaking to and have not been connecting with us.
		Except for a few, they are nowhere to be found.
		The Republicans will have a talking point and will be everywhere, stating it over and over whether it is true or not, and people come to believe it.
		Every elected Democrat should have been and should be out there on a full court press like point guards, touting and drilling information.
		The American people need to know.
		Congressman Clyburn, he was everywhere and he is still everywhere trying to state the case.
		The lady that took his place in leadership, I don't even know what she looks like, but you will when it's time for re-election.
		We, the taxpayer, pay those people approximately $14,000 a month.
		They should have been and should be holding pressers, town halls every week, every month in their respective localities, even standing on soapboxes at the mall.
		By the Democrats being so deficient in messaging, misinformation and disinformation has been allowed to fester.
		When that happens, it becomes embedded, and that is hard to undo, if at all possible.
		The Democrats' lack of messaging is destructive, and they've failed us.
		Thank you.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Lee in Virginia.
		You have some praise there for Congressman Jim Clyburn saying that he's everywhere.
		He also has a new book coming out in just a couple weeks here, two weeks from tomorrow.
		The book, The First Eight: A Personal History of the Pioneering Black Congressman Who Shaped a Nation.
		Jim Clyburn's new book, if you want to read about it.
		This is Mary Ann out of Niagara Falls Independent.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I'm almost 80 years old.
		I'm an independent, and I'm partially disabled.
		I solely depend on my SNAP program for food.
		How is New York State going to be affected by all this?
		They didn't mention anything about New York State.
		Do you have an answer for that question?
		Am I going to lose my SNAP benefits?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Marianne, I can't speak to that for you, but how much do you get in SNAP benefits?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		How does it work for people who are not on that program?
unidentified		Who are not on it?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		How does it work for you?
		For people who are trying to understand that program is what I'm asking.
		Can you explain how it works for you?
unidentified		How it works for me?
		I get a monthly, I get a card with money put on my card every month.
		I just got an increase.
		What I don't understand is they just increased me $15, and now they want to take it away.
		So why did the government increase the amount, and now they're saying you're going to lose it?
		I don't understand that.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Do you mind saying what the total amount is that you get per month?
unidentified		I get $2.47 a month, and it barely gets me through the month.
		I'm a diabetic.
		I have to buy special food.
		I'm partially disabled.
		I have five different specialists that I see that if I don't have my insurance, I can't see them.
		So, what kind of position am I going to be in?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Mary Ann out of Niagara Falls, New York.
		Here's the story from the New York Times with no end in sight to the nearly month-long federal government shutdown.
		Funding for the nation's largest food assistance program, known as SNAP, will disappear at the start of November, according to the Department of Agriculture.
		On Friday, the Trump administration said in a memo that it would not tap into contingency funds to keep payments flowing to states.
		The Times story noting that means roughly 42 million Americans who rely on SNAP, the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, may soon have to find other ways to feed themselves and their families.
		This is John out of Virginia, Republican.
		You are next.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Hi, John.
		Good morning.
		How are you?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Doing well.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yeah, doing well.
		I just wanted to mention I moved from Omaha, Nebraska 10 and a half years ago.
		I've been listening to your TV, to your program on the radio at 90.1 here in the Washington, D.C. area.
		You do have a very fascinating program.
		And one of my other former and fellow employees, we do talk about this.
		And I just have two things I'd like to touch on, if I could.
		And by the way, you do have a very fascinating program as a social studies major.
		And you and Greta do a very good job as far as this.
		It happened early September, and I lost.
		I was going to talk to you.
		The line went down.
		I don't know what happened, but I would like to just talk about two things.
		Last time we spoke was back in early 2020 during the springtime.
		You were asking me questions about Colonial Beach, Virginia, which I'm still a resident of.
		And we're pretty much back to normal here.
		It took us a while, about three years, where they had all the beaches closed and all the restaurants.
		Frankly, the Chinese restaurant, which is right across the park, is still out of business.
		But I hope next year, during the spring, you come down.
		I think you know where Colonial Beach is at.
		You asked me a bunch of questions.
		I was glad to ask you that as far as finding what was going on here with the town.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What was the other topic you wanted to bring up?
unidentified		The last year, when I moved from Omaha, Nebraska, I lived there for 25 years, off and on, three times when I went to college in the late 70s there.
		The other thing is that on the 8th of July of last year, from 9:30 to 10 o'clock, you had former Governor and Senator Bob Kerry on your program.
		You may remember that.
		And what happened was that I was there when he was governor, and a lot of things about him you don't know.
		And all these things took place before you were born.
		So what happened there is that Bob Kerry, I think when he ran for governor back in 1982, he really only had four restaurants.
		He had no political experience.
		And I think there's two things why he squeaked in.
		He only won by 1,200 votes was that he was a Medal of Honor recipient from Vietnam.
		Plus, he had Debbie Winger, who's filming the movie Turns of Endearment in Nebraska.
		I was at Coney State College when Real Life Story took place.
		So that's the reason why he got all this fantastic news and attention from the news media, and people adored him.
		But when he went to government there as a governor, when I got back, I had an 8.6 unemployment rate and had farmers committing suicide.
		The economy in Nebraska pretty much collapsed.
		I don't think he had an idea what to do.
		And he left.
		And there's a lot of things about him.
		Did you know, as a Medal of Honor recipient, he's the only Medal of Honor recipient who was a Vietnam War protester.
		Did you know that?
		I was there in Nebraska when he was.
		So I did not vote for him during two times he ran for senator because I thought it was just all talk and no action.
		And that's the reason why I decided to call you and I waited.
		She was quite a long time for about a year to explain some things about you as well.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Well, John, I appreciate you getting in today.
		If you want to learn more or if other viewers want to learn more about Bob Kerry, he's got 572 videos in the C-SPAN video archive.
		His first appearance on the C-SPAN networks in 1984, and it was July 8th of last year that he joined this program.
		I think that's the one you're referring to.
		Viewers can watch that interview as well.
		John, appreciate the call from Virginia.
		That's John.
		This is Joe in Butner, North Carolina, Democrat.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, I'm a retired primary care doc from prisons, mental institutions, and rural health.
		I have never treated an illegal immigrant with Medicaid in 41 years.
		I wish the lying would stop about this whole thing.
		It is absolutely a lie.
		The Obamacare hate it because Obama had something to do with it.
		And like Donald Trump, he wants to destroy anything that Obama did.
		And especially the idea that health insurance is giving colored people something free.
		This idea.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Joe, why do you use that term?
unidentified		Because that's the way most Southerners see Obamacare.
		It's a free thing from a colored man to other colored people.
		This is the way they see Obamacare.
		This is why Trump needs to destroy it.
		Plus, he's jealous as hell.
		He didn't get a Nobel Prize.
		He wants that.
		He wants to buy it if he can get it.
		And the last thing being that this whole idea of not talking about Epstein, Epstein, the Israeli lobby, the Mossad,
		and all of the dirt they've got by hooking guys up with prostitutes and little boys and little girls, they will go to all expense to make sure we never hear the truth of it.
		And I can bet today they're still erasing pages and sentences and pictures because when this thing ends, the stuff is really going to hit the fan, isn't it?
		All right.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Joe.
		This is Murray in Ohio Independent.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Just a quick comment.
		I just found out that building the big ballroom isn't going to really happen because they're going to have to arrest all the ICE police are going to arrest the workers there because most of them are immigrants.
		I had a roof put on my house a few years ago, and I thought I was dealing with a local company.
		And then all of a sudden, it was all Mexican workers that came.
		And then only one could speak English.
		So that's my comment.
		Thank you.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Plenty of articles today on the destruction of the East Wing, the construction of a new ballroom.
		This is the Wall Street Journal front page, how Trump barreled through red tape to get his ballroom.
		The president realized his longtime dream by remaking a planning board and taking advantage of permitting oddities when it comes to the White House.
		This is the Washington Post story, the East Wing's quiet power silence.
		The space was called the heart of the nation, and now it is gone.
		And this from the op-ed pages of the Wall Street Journal.
		It's Colin Levy, a member of the journal's editorial board, who writes, Vast palaces loom over landscapes in Riyadh, in Oman, and Malaysia, but the scale and grandeur of the building doesn't confer on those nations any gravitas or greatness.
		The buildings instead offer wry witness to the reason those countries are not as great as ours.
		They have been led by rulers who put their own opulence and comfort over the principles of the nation that they serve.
		Of course, the world changes and cities rise and fall, but a great sovereign nation guards certain spaces as monuments to the country's history and singularity.
		Colin Levy saying history is important, monuments matter, and the home of the U.S. president isn't just a building to be optimized for function.
		It is a symbol of power, a legacy, and national identity, respect for the nation, and all that it has built still matters.
		These aren't trivial trifles or overreactions.
		They are the foundations that the Republic was built on, and that is worth defending.
		Saying the White House isn't private property.
		The demolition of the East Wing was unprecedented.
		Back to your phone calls.
		This is Carolyn out of Missouri Democrat.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I have a question.
		I saw the East Wing being demolished.
		I was horrified.
		I also have this question.
		Mr. Trump bought the old post office in D.C.
		And he was making a lot of money in that building.
		He was also being watched quite closely.
		I'm wondering: did he have the East Wing torn down so that he can do that there without giving any explanation who's coming and going and who's paying him?
		And he can be secretive, more secretive than he was in the old post office building, hotel that he made.
		Thank you.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		The old post office in Washington, D.C., the Trump organization did own it.
		It was sold in May of 2022 for about $375 million.
		Now Waldorf Astoria Hotel here in D.C.
		A few minutes left here, actually about 20 minutes left here in open forum.
		Here's the phone numbers for you to call in: Democrats 202-748-8000.
		Republicans 202-748-8001.
		Independents 202-748-8002.
		We will head to Harvey, Louisiana.
		James is an independent.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, sir.
		Thanks for letting me get in here.
		To the lady that called earlier, and she didn't appear to be a Democrat, but she said she was.
		But I have a message for her.
		It is not the Democrat leadership's responsibility to message us.
		It's their job to do their job.
		If we just listen to what the Republicans are saying, we will get their message.
		Their leader, it appears to me in our two-party system that we have one party that seems to be trying to follow the rules, to follow the Constitution.
		The other party doesn't even seem to know what's in the Constitution.
		Their leader is talking about being paid $230 million when in the Constitution it says what he can deceive, and that's his salary, period.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		James, how do you think Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries have done as messengers for the Democratic Party during the shutdown?
unidentified		I think they're doing wonderful because for the last couple of years, most people have been interpreting these people as being feckless and effective, like the lady just said a little while ago, that they're doing nothing.
		What they're doing is following the rules.
		And now that they're actually standing in the doorway and saying no more, people are blaming them for something that they're supposed to do.
		I know they're the so-called opposition party, but they're just opposing the things that are not supposed to be done.
		And what's wrong with that?
		They're doing their job.
		That's my answer to that.
		I do have a couple other ones.
		We need to just listen.
		Like I said, we need to listen to the Republicans.
		They've had a message now for about 40 years.
		Peace through strength.
		I don't know how they could keep saying that because next year we're going to celebrate our 250th anniversary.
		And the people we beat up on at the time in 1776, they were the superpower of the world.
		And they didn't have peace.
		We had more strength than the people we've gone to war with.
		And praise God, in most of the wars we've had, the moral side won.
		But you can't have peace just having because you're not the biggest dick or you're the biggest guy on the street.
		You have to have the respect and the cooperation of those around you.
		And this president is pissing off our neighbors.
		So start reading the Constitution, understand the Constitution, and respect people for doing their job.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		James, we'll take the point from Louisiana.
		This is Betsy in Warren, Michigan.
		Republican, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		How are you today?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Doing well, Betsy.
unidentified		I would like to bring up a few points for people that are looking for more information on the boats that are being blown up for drug smuggling.
		If you want to see what they look like, there are programs on TV.
		I think it's the National Geographic Petra Smuggler.
		And they actually show what the boats look like.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Betsy, what do you think about those attacks on those boats?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		There's been a lot of controversy surrounding those.
unidentified		Yes.
		Well, you can see the police and the Coast Guard, and I'm not sure what the other agencies are, but they're going from, they work with Puerto Rico, and they go from island to island, and you can see what the drug boats look like.
		And there are several other ones like contraband.
		They also show some of the boats that are being washed up on U.S. shores in the state of Florida.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's Betsy in Michigan.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		This is Will out of Maryland Democrat.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Good morning.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		I have a few things I want to ask.
		Instead of blowing up the boats in the water, why not follow the boats to see who's receiving it in this country?
		That's one thing.
		Hello?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		I'm listening to you, Will.
		So on that first point, one of the explanations has been that blowing up the boats is a form of deterrence to send a message to others to don't even try this, that that is the message that the United States is sending, that it's tried the law enforcement side of this, of trying to follow them and dismantle the networks.
		This is a deterrence operation.
unidentified		Okay, another thing, if you give more police, If you give cities funds to have more police, what, Will?
		Reduce crime.
		The other one is, how can a person stop seven walls and can't reopen the government?
		I think that would be easier than stopping seven walls.
		And the last thing is the last thing is what, Will?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Just keep talking.
unidentified		Okay, that's it.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's Will and Maryland.
		This is Tony, Sebring, Florida, Independent.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
valerie in kentucky ▲ ● ▼		I contacted C-SPAN a while ago, and I'm doing a follow-up about the Afghan interpreters and their families are under deportation.
unidentified		There was some kind of a status change, and they're not being protected now like they should be.
		You know, these guys risked their lives to save our military personnel, and now they're being dumped.
		I mean, it's not right.
valerie in kentucky ▲ ● ▼		If the U.S. doesn't keep their promises, you know, and protect people who assist us in military campaigns, who's going to believe that they're going to be protected in the future?
valerie in kentucky ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't seem that difficult that either an exception or an exemption could come into place so that these guys can stay in the United States like they were told that they'd be able to.
unidentified		I'm wondering if C-SPAN could even do a story about this.
valerie in kentucky ▲ ● ▼		I've written to every representative and federal government employee that I could think of, and no one's answering me.
unidentified		The military is very upset about this.
		It's all over the internet.
		It's on stars and stripes.
		The veterans don't like this at all, but it seems like they're up for deportation.
		And like I said, it seems like the government could issue exceptions for these guys to stay here and remain safe.
		Sending them back to Afghanistan is absolutely ridiculous.
valerie in kentucky ▲ ● ▼		And I'm hoping that your listeners will possibly follow up on this with their representatives and see if somebody can get this looked into.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Tony, thanks for bringing up the topic.
		This is Reuters story on that topic, but it's a couple months old at this point.
		But there's a few stories like this.
		Massed ICE agents detain a former Afghan interpreter who helped the U.S. military.
		That's from July, but we'll look into some more recent stories for you.
		But always appreciate topic suggestions for this program.
		It's a 365-day a year program and plenty to talk about.
		Let me go to Christy in Kansas, Overland Park, Kansas, Line for Democrats.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I just, I guess, more have a complaint comment.
		I don't know.
		But I watch a lot of different news stations to try to get different opinions instead of just focusing on the Democratic side and this and that.
		And I never hear anyone say, you know, when is the Supreme Court going to step up and say enough is enough with Trump?
		It seems like ever since they gave him this presidential immunity, that's all he needed to do, whatever the hell he wants to do.
		You know, kidnapping people off the streets.
		If people are going to immigration court to get legal, but then you're, you know, kidnapping them outside of it.
		And it's supposed to be the worst of the worst and all these other things.
		Nothing he ever says is it comes true.
		The people that decided that nine, I think it's nine people in the Supreme Court decide for 340 million people for the rest of their lives is utterly ridiculous.
		And they need to talk about changing that.
		I just don't understand why no one is really saying what's really going on in this country.
		And now you've got this idiot who's a tyrant that just has a child's ego, spoiled brat, who just wants to do everything for himself and make money for his family, which was supposed to be illegal as well.
		I don't know, I just wanted to rant.
		Have a wonderful day.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Christy in Kansas.
		Go ahead and keep calling in more of your phone calls in just a couple minutes here, but we want to head now to the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue, where we're joined by Time Politics Reporter Nick Popely.
		He's at the White House grounds.
		Nick Popely, President Trump overseas in Japan today.
		We know that there's at least a framework deal in place for a trade deal with China.
		What more details can you fill us in on?
		What has the White House been saying to you today?
unidentified		Well, thank you for having me.
		Both sides appear to have agreed to a framework of a deal, but it's still a little bit unclear what exactly that entails and if this will hold true in a couple of days when the two sides meet in person.
		Both sides do appear likely to extend the existing trade tariff truce that has been in place for the last couple of months.
		But it remains to be seen just exactly how if both sides will be willing to hold up the so-called framework of a deal.
		We know that Treasury Secretary Scott Besant has said that Trump's threat of 100% tariff is likely off the table for now.
		And that is a significant development that we'll have to wait and see how it plays out.
		But certainly a welcome news for the markets and for American farmers and for consumers here in the United States.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		The president is in Japan today.
		This meeting with Xi Jinping of China expected to take place Thursday in South Korea at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Summit.
		Any more details about who would be in that meeting, where it will take place, sort of the staging of this very big meeting between the leaders of the two largest economies in the world?
unidentified		Well, the most significant aspect of that meeting is that it'll be the first face-to-face meeting between President Xi and President Trump since 2019.
		And, you know, the two sides will be talking about fentanyl, they'll be talking about TikTok.
		President Trump may also ask for President Xi's support to pressure Russia and President Putin of Russia.
		As we know, China has continued to purchase oil and gas from Russia.
		And so that may be a part of the discussions as well.
		It's possible that Taiwan comes up in those discussions as well.
		We know that the United States has remained firm in its stance that it will continue to support and defend Taiwan, but President Xi of China is likely to try to see how far the United States is willing to go on Taiwan.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What do you say?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Oh, go ahead, finish.
unidentified		And the other thing that we are going to be watching for is any discussion on those rare earth magnets, those rare earth minerals.
		So Besson has said that they've reached an agreement to curb, to stop those export controls of rare earth minerals.
		But it remains, again, to be seen if they will follow through on that.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		And then what are you hearing about a possible meeting with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		There's been at least some speculation that that could happen while the president is there in South Korea.
unidentified		President Trump has said that he's open to meeting with the leader of North Korea, but it remains to be seen, again, if that will actually happen.
		It doesn't appear likely that it will, but given the fact that President will be in Asia in South Korea, you know, it is possible they could meet.
		The last time the president, you know, he went to the demilitarized zone.
		It was something he had talked about as one of his accomplishments that he was able to do that.
		But no real tangible progress actually came out of that other than sort of the photo op aspect.
		So, you know, it remains to be seen if that meeting would take place, but the president has indicated that he'd be open to it.
		And, you know, it depends.
		We'll see if North Korea is open to it as well.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		And then today and tomorrow in Japan and in Tokyo, what's on the president's schedule?
unidentified		Well, the president will be meeting with the Emperor of Japan.
		He will, I believe they are conservative and just started in Japan.
		And so he'll be meeting with them, and that will be watched closely in Japan and here in the United States.
		He'll be discussing trade with that country.
		And so it remains to be seen how that goes.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		And as the president is traveling this week overseas, what does that say about expectations for an end this week to a now 27-day old government shutdown?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Is there any likelihood that some negotiation would happen and the president would sign something to end this while he's traveling overseas?
unidentified		It's possible, but it certainly dampens any expectation that they could reach a truce or an agreement on health care and ending this government shutdown while the president is abroad.
		It is possible that they could, but given the fact that the president's out of the country, the House still hasn't been in session, they've been out for more than a month.
		And the Senate is in town and they could continue to discuss the government shutdown and the funding of the CR.
		But it seems there is a pressing deadline coming up, and that's November 1, when the SNAP funding is set to expire.
		SNAP is another word for the food stamp program.
		And this funding will be cut off on November 1st, and millions of Americans will lose access to food stamps.
		So that is a pressure point that we are seeing, and it remains to be seen if that will accelerate these negotiations that you mentioned.
		But with the president out of the country, it does appear unlikely that they are able to reach a negotiation or reach an agreement, just given the fact that the president will likely need to sit down with Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries of the House.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		The President oversees along with several other members of his cabinet, including the Treasury Secretary.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		So who this week would be the main White House emissary to Capitol Hill, somebody to watch to see if there is movement?
unidentified		Well, I think Senate Majority Leader John Thune would be one to watch closely.
		They regularly hold press conferences with reporters in the Senate and in the House.
		So House Speaker Mike Johnson would also be one to watch.
		They'll be discussing with reporters any progress that's been made.
		And it'll be important to see if their tone has shifted at all, especially given that the SNAP benefits are set to expire, but also military members might not get paid.
		Furloughed workers are continuing not to get paid.
		So we'll have to see what their messaging is this week.
		But certainly we have seen no indication that they're willing to budge.
		And we've also seen no indication that the Democrats are willing to budge on their health care demands.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		And we'll continue to watch Time magazine, Nick Popola Politics reporter there for new information.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Though before you go, as the leaves are falling behind you on the White House grounds, I did want to ask whether you've been over to see the East Wing demolition, how much access are reporters being given to that construction site, and is that the sound of construction that we hear behind you?
unidentified		I believe it is the sound of construction behind me.
		I haven't been over there to see it personally, but I can hear it.
		And we've seen pictures and images of the East Wing being demolished.
		It remains a challenging, I'd say sort of a thorn in the side of the president a bit, just given all these images circulating.
		But the president remains firm in his stance that presidents throughout history have been able to renovate the White House campus as they see fit.
		President Nixon turned the White House swimming pool into the White House briefing room as it is today.
		So they remain firm that they followed all the proper procedures, that they didn't need a review Of the demolition plan before it was demolished.
		And, you know, there's a lawsuit right now against this, hoping to stop the construction.
		But as you know, as you can hear behind me, and I'm sure you'll see in some images as well, construction has continued.
		So the lawsuit hasn't materialized in anything.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Nick Popli covers it all at the White House politics reporter for time.
		Time.com is where you can go to read his work.
		And we always appreciate your time.
unidentified		Thank you.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Back to your phone calls here.
		A few minutes left in open forum.
		Any public policy, any political issue that you want to talk about, we'll head all the way down to Key West, Florida.
		This is Jim Independent.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		How are you doing today?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Doing well, Jim.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		How's Key West today?
unidentified		Key West is about 84 degrees sunny.
		Oh, my God.
		It's heaven, man.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Sounds nice.
unidentified		Anyway, I have a couple of cultural points I want to make out first.
		It used to be dog was man's best friend, but now man is dog's best friend.
		And who's man's best friend now?
		The cell phone.
		But after saying that, I want to just mention in this country about something that really bothers me is the teachers, the teachers' union, in the whole teaching thing.
		First of all, I wanted to say if you guys want to help, if the government wants to help, take my advice, my wife's advice.
		Drop the interest rate on college loans to 2%, and that would help quite a bit of people.
		Secondly, when I was in elementary school, there were two teachers per grade.
		There were six grades in my elementary school, 12 cars in the lot.
		Now you can't even get in the parking lot.
		The teachers' union cares about teachers, not students anymore.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Jim, do you know any teachers?
unidentified		Kidding me?
		I got them in my family.
		I got them within the moon.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		How do they react when you bring this up?
unidentified		Oh, I don't bring it up.
		I don't bring it up.
		I just sit there and watch.
		But how's Thanksgiving going to be for you, Jim?
		Oh, awesome.
		Awesome.
		We got the most loving family.
		My wife has six siblings.
		I got seven siblings.
		And we all love each other.
		And when you have that many siblings, you know, I don't know if you know, but there's always a couple of black sheep in the family.
		And we love our black sheeps as well.
		We have no problems.
		Our families are very loving.
		And I mean, I would get vehement.
		I mean, I have vehement arguments with my daughter and my nieces, but the truth of the matter is, our education publicly seems to be failing.
		I mean, when they say that, like, there's not 10 people that can read or do math according to their grade, to me, the first year that happens, I would realize I got to get rid of some of these teachers.
		Because, I mean, what's going on?
		You know, and then during Biden, and he mandates that if you don't have the vaccine, then you're fired.
		Well, to me, a teacher should be a very independent thinker.
		And when he fired those teachers that refused to get the vaccine, to me, he's firing probably the best teachers he's got.
		So, I mean, those are my thoughts.
		I have a million thoughts.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What line of work are you in down in Key West?
unidentified		I'm retired now, but I was for about five years.
		I was a commercial fisherman.
		Then when I started my family, I bought my own.
		I've been an intrepid one my whole life.
		I had my business for 30 years, a little convenience store, liquor store in a town called Quincy, Massachusetts.
		Now, Quincy, Massachusetts, prints Asian ballots for their election.
		I mean, that blows my mind.
		How we name me a country that prints English, I mean, non-English speaking country that prints English ballots for their elections.
		I mean, there's things in this country that just don't make sense to me.
		I'm 70 years old.
		Like I said, I've been in trouble.
		I had three kids and lovely wife.
		And like I said, the world's going crazy.
		In QS here, right?
		You have to look at people with carriages, and probably 60% of them have little dogs in their carriage.
		I'm like, and then they're picking up their poop.
		And it's like, you know, why don't you have a dog, Jimmy?
		Well, I'll get a dog when I can find one who will pick up my poop.
		Sorry to say that online.
		Anyway, that's my thoughts.
		Q West is a great place.
		We just had Fantasy Fest.
		We had my 81-year-old mother-in-law down here.
		She was mortified.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What is that, Jimmy?
unidentified		Fantasy Fest?
unidentified		Yeah.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Do I want to know?
unidentified		That's a Halloween celebration where Q West sometimes down here is like an adult Disney world.
		I mean, there's not a lot of over-policing, I guess is the way to put it.
		So you walk down the main street, Duval.
		I had to explain to my mother-in-law that, you know, this isn't really our lifestyle, but it's crazy on Fantasy Fest.
		Everybody comes down and loses their inhibitions.
		That's a crazy time.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Jimmy Collins from Key West, Florida.
		Talk to you down the road, Jimmy.
		Let me get to Alvin out of Denver, Democrat.
		Alvin, go ahead.
unidentified		Hi, John.
		You had two calls I want to focus on.
		One caller, John, the medical provider from Philly, who said he works, he has health care, but he thinks about the people who don't have access to health care.
		I hope he's listening, John.
		I hope he's still listening because I'm with him.
		Now, you had another caller.
		I can't recall his name, a guy from New Jersey who talked about spending out of pocket $17,000 a year and talked about how why can't we just go back to the free market and let insurance providers compete?
		Well, you know what, John?
		We had that, and that led to Medicare.
		Why?
		Because providers refused to care for older people, or they priced it so that people, older people, couldn't afford it.
		Why did we have government interventions with the Affordable Care Act?
		Insurance providers weren't caring for people who had preexisting conditions.
		So the market wouldn't take care of itself.
		Government had to intervene.
		And one last thing I want to say, John.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, I got about 30 seconds.
unidentified		Okay.
		The people who call and talk about all the problems in the U.S., it always gets down to the immigrants.
		It always gets down to the immigrants.
		That's what I have.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Alvin in Denver.
		Last caller in this open forum.
		Stick around, 45 minutes left this morning.
		In that time, we'll be joined by University of Maryland Public Policy Professor Philip Joyce.
		We'll talk about how the government shutdown has impacted executive branch and legislative branch powers.
		Stick around for that conversation.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Watch America's Book Club, C-SPAN's bold new original series.
		This Sunday with our guest Pulitzer Prize winner, Stacey Schiff, author of biographies including Ben Franklin, Samuel Adams, and Cleopatra.
		She joins our host, renowned author and civic leader David Rubenstein.
		So, writing a second book on Franklin, you must admire him.
david rubenstein ▲ ● ▼		I assume you don't want to write two books on somebody you don't admire, but you do admire him.
stacy schiff ▲ ● ▼		I feel as if he is in all ways admirable in so many ways, just the essential DNA of America.
stacy schiff ▲ ● ▼		His voice is the voice of America, literally.
unidentified		Watch America's Book Club with Stacey Schiff, Sundays at 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN.
		America marks 250 years, and C-SPAN is there to commemorate every moment.
		From the signing of the Declaration of Independence to the voices shaping our nation's future, we bring you unprecedented all-platform coverage, exploring the stories, sights, and spirit that make up America.
		Join us for remarkable coast-to-coast coverage, celebrating our nation's journey like no other network can.
		America 250.
		Over a year of historic moments, only on the C-SPAN networks.
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		And past president nomination.
brian lamb ▲ ● ▼		Why are you doing this?
unidentified		This is outrageous.
		This is a kangaroo quarrel.
		Fridays, C-SPAN presents a rare moment of unity.
		Ceasefire, where the shouting stops and the conversation begins.
		Politico Playbook chief correspondent and White House Bureau Chief Dasha Burns is host of Ceasefire, bringing two leaders from opposite sides of the aisle into a dialogue.
		Ceasefire on the network that doesn't take sides.
		Fridays at 7 and 10 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN.
brian lamb ▲ ● ▼		The book is called Breakneck, China's Quest to Engineer the Future.
		Author Dan Wong was born in China in 1992.
		His parents moved to Canada when he was seven.
		In 2014, he graduated from the University of Rochester in New York.
		Then in 2018, Dan Wong went to live in China until he returned to the U.S. in 2023.
		He then went to the offices of the Yale Law School and wrote about his comparison of China and the United States.
		He writes in his intro: A strain of materialism, often crass, runs through both countries, sometimes producing variations of successful entrepreneurs, sometimes creating displays of extraordinary tastelessness, and overall contributing to a spirit of vigorous competition.
unidentified		Author Dan Wong with his book, Breakneck: China's Quest to Engineer the Future, on this episode of Book Notes Plus with our host, Brian Lamb.
		BookNotes Plus is available wherever you get your podcasts and on the C-SPAN Now app.
		Washington Journal continues.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		A conversation now on the shutdown and presidential powers.
		Our guest is University of Maryland School of Public Policy professor Philip Joyce.
		And Professor Joyce, in a recent column, you wrote this in Government Executive: When the government shutdown ends, Donald Trump will have succeeded in staging the single biggest expansion of presidential powers in American history because of the single largest shift in the constitutional balance of powers ever.
		Explain.
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that the first thing to understand is that government shutdowns, as bad as they are, actually confer a great deal of power to the executive branch in making decisions about, for example, who's going to work and who's not going to work, what programs and policies are going to continue and what programs and policies are not going to continue.
		But you go beyond that, you know, he has really taken this opportunity to try to do many of the things that he wanted to do anyway.
		And so he's done something that no other president has ever done, which is to use this as an excuse to lay off employees, for example.
		And then, you know, the particular, in my own view, the sort of particular thing that sort of caused me, gave me pause, I would say, is when he decided to pay the troops using an appropriation that was not for that purpose.
		I have no qualms about paying the troops.
		I think troops should be paid.
		I think everyone should be paid.
		But what he did was took funds that had been made available for one purpose and used them for a completely different purpose.
		So once you have that kind of control over the budget, it's very hard to sort of see where that ends.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Why is that something that gives a constitutional scholar pause?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What's the concern there?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		Well, I should say first, I'm not a constitutional scholar, but I'm not sure.
		I don't play one on television, but I will say that, you know, Clause 7 of Article 1, Section 9 of the Constitution says, and I'm going to read this, no money shall be drawn from the Treasury but in consequences of appropriations made by law.
		The fact is that what...
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		And who makes those appropriations by law?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		The legislative branch.
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		The legislative branch.
		And when the legislative branch makes appropriations, it doesn't just give the president or even the Department of Defense a big lump sum and say, spend it however you want.
		There are more than 1,000 appropriation accounts in the federal budget, and those appropriation accounts are first and foremost, sort of limits on what can be spent for any particular item.
		And what the Trump administration did in this case was they took an appropriation that was for research and development in the Department of Defense, and they used that appropriation to make payments for military personnel.
		And that's not the purpose for which that appropriation was made.
		And so once the President can decide that he wants to take any pot of money and spend it for anything he wants to, that does sort of great damage to the power of the purse.
		And the founders were very concerned that the Congress possessed the power of the purse at the risk of reading another quote.
		I'm going to do it anyway.
		Madison in Federalist 58 said the power of the purse may in fact be regarded as the most complete and effectual weapon with which any Constitution can arm the immediate representatives of the people.
		There's a reason that the founders thought that the power of the purse should rest in the Congress.
		And part of the power of the purse resting in the Congress means that Congress should get to decide, of course, with the President's agreement, when the President signs appropriation bills, what money can be spent for.
		But once that's happened, then the President should be bound to spend money in that way.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Is this just a function of the President's party controlling both the House and the Senate and that if and when it happens that one party, the opposition party, gains control of one chamber, then Congress will reassert itself.
		There will be investigations.
		There will be objections being raised to this.
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		I guess that's possible, but you have to ask yourself the question whether the horse is out of the barn at that point.
		And what we don't know is we don't know what the courts are going to rule on this.
		I've been very careful to not just declare that something is unconstitutional because what's constitutional is dependent on what ultimately the Supreme Court says is constitutional.
		So if there's a challenge to this at some point and the Supreme Court says it's okay, that's the point at which we are saying that this could be a permanent shift of power from the Congress to the executive.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Bring me back to other times when a president's party had super majorities in the House and Senate.
		Lyndon Johnson had super majorities.
		Did this sort of thing happen under Lyndon Johnson?
unidentified		No.
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		This sort of thing did not happen under Lyndon Johnson.
		As far as I'm aware, this kind of thing has not happened under any other president.
		This is one of the things that makes shutdowns end is that people are not able to be paid.
		And in the case of the military, there has always been legal provision made for the military to be paid.
		And so the difference here is that because the House hasn't been in session for more than a month, in part, there was not any legal way to get the, in my opinion, there's not any legal way independent of the Congress acting to get the military paid, which is why they turned to what I think arguably is a sort of extra-legal way to do this.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Has the Trump administration broken any laws?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		I think it is arguable that the Trump administration has broken a law called the Anti-Deficiency Act.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What is that?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		The Anti-Deficiency Act was a law that was created in 1870, and it was created in response to the fact that federal agencies had the habit of spending more money than they had and then coming to the Congress and saying, well, make us whole now.
		And so what the Anti-Deficiency Act did is it said, not only are you not allowed to spend money that you don't have, but you're not allowed to spend money on things that that money was not provided for.
		And so when the Trump administration took the research and development funding and used it to pay the troops, you know, people who have studied this more carefully and in a more detailed way than I have argued that that is a clear violation of the Anti-Deficiency Act.
		Now, I have read the talking points from the administration about why they think this is legal, and I should be clear that they do think this is legal.
		I should also be clear that I'm not persuaded by their argument.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What is the Impoundment Control Act of 1974?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		The Empoundment Control Act of 1974 is almost the reverse of the Anti-Deficiency Act.
		What the Empoundment Control Act of 1974 says is that a president cannot refuse to spend money that has been appropriated by Congress just because the president doesn't agree with the thing that is being funded.
		And so a lot of the things that, and this, by the way, was passed in response to President Richard Nixon's actions in the late 60s and early 1970s when President Nixon would do exactly that.
		What he would do is he would sign appropriation bills that had been passed by the Congress, and then he would say, well, I don't really like this program, so I'm not going to spend money on it.
		And so the courts stepped in initially to say that there's nothing in the Constitution that permits a president to unilaterally cancel funds or appropriations that have been passed by Congress.
		So what the Empowerment Control Act did was it actually set up a procedure where the President could come in and request that the Congress cancel an appropriation that had been passed.
		But importantly, the Empowerment Control Act says that if the Congress has not acted in response to that within 45 days, then the money has to be sort of freed for obligation.
		So a lot of the things that the administration did sort of early in its term, which including things like shutting down the Agency for International Development, are arguably violations not only of the law, but also of the Empowerment Control Act.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		If the horse is out of the barn on this power, what is the mechanism to get the horse back in the barn?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Is the Supreme Court the only way to do it?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		The Supreme Court is a way to do it.
		I think that the horse is out of the barn in part because the Congress has not asserted itself.
		And so waiting for the courts, courts take a long time to act.
		And I think the Congress has not really asserted itself.
		And I think you can sort of understand that Democrats have not been pleased by this, but Democrats don't control either House of Congress.
		I think the fact that the Republicans have not responded to this, in my view, is particularly short-sighted because this is not just a transfer of power from the Congress to President Trump.
		This is a transfer of power from the Congress to the executive.
		And someday.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		No matter what party.
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		And someday there may be another Democratic president.
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		And if I was even a partisan Republican Congress, I would say, do I want the next Democratic president to have this kind of authority?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What's your view on the job of the budget director and how Russ Vogt has handled that job?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		I think he's a very, very bright man.
		And I think that he has expressed a willingness to kind of find every loophole that he can find in order to try to get the things done that he wants to get done.
		I think what I would say is that he does not feel very bound by the norms that have sort of dictated relationships between the Congress and the President over time.
		I mean, he said in particular that he thought the appropriations process was too bipartisan.
		And of course, as your viewers know, because of the Senate filibuster, they need some Democratic votes in order to either end the shutdown or pass the appropriation bills to begin with.
		He didn't want to have appropriation bills where he was negotiating with Democrats.
		And so I think if you go all the way back to Project 2025 that he was one of the important authors of, none of this is a surprise in terms of this was sort of well documented that this was the plan.
		Of course, it didn't include when there's a government shutdown, we will do X, Y, and Z, but it definitely included a lot of information on exactly how they would approach the job.
		And in particular, this sort of embracing of what is referred to as unitary executive theory, which essentially says that when the president says that he's going to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, it gives the president the authority to do lots of things that other presidents have not thought they had the authority to do.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Do you think the legislative filibuster is a good thing?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		I think the legislative filibuster can be the only way to sort of protect minority rights sort of in any way, because the minority in the House really has very little power.
		And it is already the case because of budget reconciliation, which we won't get into a long discussion of that unless you want to.
		But because of budget reconciliation, it is already the case that very significant things can be done in the Senate without having to get any votes from the minority party.
		Now, there are limits to budget reconciliation, including the fact that it has to be something that's sort of related to the budget.
		But to kind of expand that to say that there's nothing that you don't need minority support in the Senate for in order to get something passed, you have to kind of remember that the founders, I always tell my students that the system in the Constitution was set up not to promote good things happening, but to prevent bad things from happening.
		And so what the filibuster does is it does put a break on legislation as it goes through the Congress.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Is protecting political minority rights in Congress getting in the way of the legislative branch rights, projecting its power, as it were, against a creeping executive branch?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		I think it certainly could in a case where the Congress was controlled by a different political party than the president.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		But again, the concern is that if Congress is too weak, dump the filibuster, make Congress stronger, and then maybe they'll be on more equal footing with the president.
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's true.
		I mean, I think you have to think about all possible situations.
		And in a situation where the presidency and the Congress are both controlled by the same political party, then what it does is it removes any breaks that might be on the president.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Professor Philip Joyce is our guest of the University of Maryland School of Public Policy.
		You can see the School of Public Policy's work, spp.umd.edu.
		His recent piece, and the focus of this conversation, ran in government executive, the headline, how the president expanded his power without a government.
		It's by Professor Joyce and Donald Kettle.
		Who is that?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		Donald Kettle is, he's former dean of the School of Public Policy, University of Maryland, now a professor emeritus.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		How long have you been studying public policy?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		Oh, gosh.
		Well, I started, I've been studying public policy probably since I got my PhD, which started in 1986, and then I eventually went to work for five years for the Congressional Budget Office, which frankly was where I sort of got immersed into it.
		I mean, I thought I knew what I was doing until I got there.
		And then I discovered, you know, day by day that there were lots of nuances that I was not aware of.
		And since then, I've been sort of teaching and writing, especially about the federal budget, which is both an interesting and depressing way to spend my life.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What role does the Congressional Budget Office have during a shutdown and in the lead up to a shutdown?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		I would say not very much, and certainly not during a shutdown, because what the Congressional Budget Office mostly does is responds to legislation that is being considered by the Congress.
		And, you know, as we said, the House has not been in session for more than a month.
		And so, you know, really the Congressional Budget Office exists to provide information to the Congress.
		And the Congress can then choose what it wants to do with that information.
		And in particular, the Congressional Budget Office has been telling the Congress for a long time that the deficit is big and the debt is big and even presenting the Congress with information on how it is that they might take action in order to reduce the debt.
		But in the end, they have no power to do anything other than provide information.
		And they have in past shutdowns communicated to the Congress, for example, what kind of damage the shutdown is doing to the economy.
		And I have not seen them do that in this particular case, but I assume that they will at some point.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		How does the Congressional Budget Office stay independent?
		They're often called the nonpartisan scorekeepers.
		But when you get down to a budgeting fight, one or the other side will often, when the Congressional Budget Office puts out some numbers that they don't like, will say, well, they're partisan.
		They're using the wrong numbers.
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		Well, a former director of CBO told me once that he knew he was doing a good job if he had as many Republicans screaming at him as Democrats screaming at him.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Is that Weigold, the former?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		No, in particular case, this was Bob Reischauer, who was the director that I mostly worked for.
		But part of that goes all the way back to Alice Rublin, who was the first director of CBO, who really, she set up the agency from scratch.
		There was no sort of playbook for how you would set up this agency.
		And she decided very early on that they would not make recommendations.
		Somebody once said to me, if you ask CBO how much something costs, we'll tell you how much it costs.
		If you ask us if it's a good idea, we'll tell you how much it costs.
		And so future directors have sort of followed that path.
		And I think they're very concerned that they not sort of appear to lean too far to one side or the other.
		But it's always going to be the case that if they come out with an estimate of a cost and one or the other side doesn't like it, then they're going to be accused of being partisan.
		I mean, my experience, I wrote a book about CBO, so it's a very dangerous question to ask me, but my experience and also everything that I've sort of observed suggests to me that they try very hard to sort of play it right down the middle.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		If you won't name it, I will.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		The Congressional Budget Office is the name of the book, Honest Numbers, Power, and Policymaking, published in 2011.
unidentified		Yes.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		And your other book?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have a couple other books.
		One of them is called Public Budgeting Systems, which is really a budgeting textbook.
		And then there's another book called Government Performance, Why Management Matters.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Legislative Branch Power, Executive Branch Power, Budgeting Issues, all topics we can chat about with Professor Philip Joyce with us for about another 25 minutes this morning.
		Phone lines for Democrats, Republicans, and Independents, you know the numbers.
		Go ahead and call us in, and we will start on the Republican line.
		Luis Fredericksburg, Virginia, good morning.
		You're on with Professor Joyce.
unidentified		Good morning.
		The president at one time used to propose a budget.
		They would send a budget to the Congress, and the Congress went through the budget and either gave the president what he asked for or didn't.
		Now it seems that Congress is writing their budget.
		They're tearing up the president's budget, who is elected by all the people, the executive.
		And it seemed to me as if the past 30 years or more, I don't know, I've been watching it for forever, 40 years or more.
		And it seems as if the Congress wants the power of the budget, not just the purse.
		They want to create their own way of governing.
		And they're not elected by the whole country.
		So how do we go back to where the president submits a budget and the Congress then takes up his budget or her budget, whichever, and then sends it to the president.
		And any extra things that the Congress wants, they should be negotiating with the executive to see if they can work out a compromise on what each side wants.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Luis got the point.
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		Professor Joyce.
		So I'm going to resist giving my federal budgeting course in five minutes.
		But I love this question, and partly I love this question because I think we should be clear that the president does submit a budget.
		The president is supposed to submit a budget proposal by the first Monday in February every year, and then the Congress has eight months, roughly, if the president submits the budget on time.
		Now, I should say this year, President Trump did not submit a full budget.
		President Trump basically just submitted the numbers for the appropriations bills that he wanted the appropriations committees to work with.
		The caller is correct that the president used to have significantly more power in the budget than he does now.
		What really changed that was the 1974 Budget and Empoundment Control Act.
		This conversation we were having earlier about impoundment, that was sort of the proximate cause of the Congress wanting to reassert its power in the budget process.
		But at the same time, they also set up this device called the budget resolution and they set up budget committees.
		And for the specific reason of the Congress being able to respond to the President's budget, I think this sort of notion of whether we think that the Congress is a more democratic body or the President is sort of more democratic, it is true that the President is supposed to represent the whole country, but members of Congress represent 435 congressional districts in 50 states.
		And so a lot of people would say, well, that's really a reflection of democracy.
		I think it is absolutely the case that we have really fallen down in terms of what the caller mentions about negotiation between the president and the Congress.
		I mean, why are we in this situation we're in right now?
		It's not because the Democrats haven't voted for the continuing resolution.
		That's not the initial cause.
		The initial cause is all the appropriation bills weren't passed and signed into law prior to the beginning of the fiscal year.
		And oh, by the way, that hasn't happened in almost 30 years.
		And so neither side is bathed in glory here.
		And I think that we need to sort of recognize that when we say we want to return to a system that's more functional, that would be a system where the president submitted a budget and then the Congress engaged with the president and ultimately everything was passed by the beginning of the fiscal year.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Since the modern budgeting process has been set up, Congress has passed all its required appropriations measures, all 12, on time four times in 1977, 89, 95, and 97.
unidentified		Right.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Why do we still have this process if it doesn't work?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		It's a really good question.
		My own view is that this is not a process problem.
		That is, we don't fail to pass appropriation bills on time because we don't have a good process.
		We fail to pass appropriation bills on time because it's a failure of our politics.
		I think the failure of the budget process is just a reflection of a failure of our politics.
		And if you can tell me how to make our politics work better, then please do.
		I think a lot of this is a story about polarization and about partisanship.
		And I'm always a little skeptical of people who think that if only we reform the budget process, we'll get to better budget outcomes.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Has this, and this is the chart from the Pew Research Center showing the four times that Congress has passed all of its budget appropriations bills on time.
		Is this leading to the original problem that we talked about at the beginning of this conversation?
		Is this as much a part of it of an expanding executive branch as anything else?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think it is absolutely the case that the Congress has failed.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		You're not going to do the job.
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		And if the Congress fails, you know, power abhors a vacuum, right?
		And if Congress fails, then what do you think is going to happen?
		You know, what's going to happen is that power is going to shift to the executive branch.
		Now, you know, I don't want to suggest that there aren't cases in here where the unwillingness of a president to negotiate with the Congress is not also part of the, you know, right.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Professor Joyce, taking your phone calls, Dee is waiting in Silver Spring, Maryland.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Independent Line D. Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, good morning, C-SPAN.
		Thank you for your work.
		Our choices now are between a silverback and a grizzly.
		It's no easy way to deal with things.
		It's going to be hurt no matter which way you turn.
		The thing of it is fundamentally the system is just broken at the bottom.
		So if it's broken at the bottom, and the people that have the power, in Trump's case, to take advantage and make the rules as he pleases, you have to blame both parties that they have allowed the country to come to this.
		I blame both of them.
		And this is the result of it.
		We need to move to the middle.
		We need some strong moderates coming into the arena to straighten this country out.
		Otherwise, America, it's not going to work.
		C-SPAN, thank you for what you do.
		Have a good day.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Dee, thanks for the call.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Professor Joyce.
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		You have really good callers with really good questions.
		So this, you know, I could not agree more.
		You know, I'm not a political scientist, just like I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but I will say that the work that political scientists have done suggests that exactly what the caller says, which is that we don't have any moderates anymore.
		That essentially we have gone to the extremes.
		And there used to be when things worked better, there were these people called moderate, even conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans.
		And they weren't the majority, but they were important because they would sort of swing back and forth and kind of help to get things done.
		And now we increasingly just have votes that are wholly partisan.
		Every Democrat says one thing and every Republican says something else.
		And that looks more like a parliamentary system, right?
		That's not sort of the way our system, I think, was set up or sort of functions well.
		And it's not making things better when we have this kind of rampant redistricting because what redistricting tends to do is it tends to eliminate these moderate districts.
		It tends to eliminate the districts where sometimes a Republican will get elected and sometimes a Democrat will get elected.
		And again, I think those people were very important in terms of the ability to get things done even though they were not in the majority.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Who is the best deal maker, the person who forced that in modern political times in your mind?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you define modern as, I don't know, the last 75 years, I would say Lynn Johnson.
		You know, when he was the when he was the majority leader of the United States Senate, you know, now he had pretty healthy majorities in part of that time.
		But, you know, but even when we're talking about the budget, I was just at a conference recently where there was a discussion of the 1997 Balanced Budget Act, which came directly before we had four years of budget surpluses.
		That was largely negotiated between John Spratt, who at that point was the ranking Democrat on the House Budget Committee.
		South Carolina, I think.
		From South Carolina, thank you.
		And Pete Domenici, a Republican from New Mexico, who was the budget, the chair of the budget committee in the Senate.
		And they got together and they basically said, we've got to do something about this.
		And the this was the federal deficit.
		You know, now you don't have people from different parties that are initiating those conversations.
		They didn't agree with each other on how it was that they would do this.
		But what they did say is this is a problem and something needs to be done about it.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		You said we have good callers.
		We've got good folks who follow along on social media every day as well.
		Politically homeless Tony, here's his question for you.
		If the executive has outsized power, it isn't it because the Congress has strayed from the original rationale for a federal government and tried to do too much.
		Coincidentally, this has led to $38 trillion and rising debt.
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		I think, well, there's a couple ways to look at that.
		One way is the way he's describing that, which is essentially the federal government now does more than it sort of did initially.
		And then you get this sort of question, what's the proper role of the federal government?
		That's a reasonable conversation to have.
		But another way to look at that, at the debt, is that the debt is the cumulative effect of the fact that we have more government than we have been willing to pay for.
		Now, you can go after that in either direction.
		You can say, well, we should do less, and that would reduce the debt.
		Or you can say, well, if we really want to have all of these programs, we need to pay for them.
		And that the big, you know, I think one of the real sort of problems here, even in this kind of shutdown debate, is that the focus is on the portion of the budget that is not growing.
		So basically, appropriated spending accounts for about 25% of the budget.
		The other 75% of the budget, which is, by the way, not affected by the shutdown, is interest on the debt and so-called mandatory spending programs.
		And those mandatory spending programs are Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security primarily.
		And what those programs have in common is that we have said that there are particular people who are eligible to receive funds for those programs.
		And as long as they continue to meet those eligibility requirements, they will continue to get money from the federal government.
		Because we have an aging population, because people are living longer, great for them that they're living longer, not great for the federal budget, right?
		Those programs just sort of continue and they continue to grow.
		And we are facing a point in time when we are not going to have enough money in the Social Security Trust funds in order to make all the payments that have been promised, which to me is just sort of a microcosm of the larger problem that I was describing, which is that we have decided that we want to provide benefits sort of in excess of the revenues that come in to pay for them.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		In the more immediate timeframe, what's your best guess for how it win the shutdown ends?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I wrote down all the dates that I had heard and why.
		And, you know, so I'll give you all of them, right?
		I mean, one is that I heard your conversation just before I came on with the Times White House reporter or the Time White House reporter.
		You know, one is, you know, October 31st is another date for a military payday.
		It's not entirely clear whether they can, you know, quote, find the money to make that payment.
		The November 1st sort of snap deadline, another date I've heard as well, not until after the elections in Virginia and New Jersey to kind of see what happens coming out of those.
		Maybe it makes one side or the other feel like that, you know, they want to compromise.
		Or the existing CR, you know, ironically, the existing CR that there's been a discussion that the Democrats and Senate should just vote for this, it expires on November 21st, right?
		And so, you know, so let's say they, let's say they voted for it, you know, tomorrow.
		There's still then another looming deadline on November the 21st.
		And so that suggests to me that, you know, this problem needs to be solved not just between now and November 21st, but sort of in the long run.
		So the other date I heard is Thanksgiving.
		I don't know why Thanksgiving.
		Maybe, you know, people don't want to be here, you know, talking about the shutdown over Thanksgiving.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Holidays do have a way of moving things sometimes around here.
		Right.
		Time for a couple more calls with Professor Philip Joyce of the University of Maryland School of Public Policy.
		By the way, if you stick around here after 10 a.m., it's probably usually a couple minutes after three or four, Speaker Mike Johnson is expected to come out for his Monday press conference.
		Reporters are already gathering in the room.
		So we're going to take you there when he does, and we're going to stick with Professor Joyce until then.
		And we're going to hear from Clayton out of Philadelphia, Democrat.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Two questions.
		First question would be, how does the destruction of government property, namely the destruction of the East Wing, how does that affect the budget?
		And two, what would an Everett Dirksen have to say about the budget as we speak?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Take him in whichever order you want.
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me talk about Everett Dirksen first, because that would actually have been a good answer to your previous question about when it was that we actually had leaders that actually led.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		You're saying there's a reason that there's a building named after him.
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly.
		And so I think Senator Dirkson is a great example.
		I was not in the Congress when Senator Dirksen was in the Congress, but I did sort of watch prior to that.
		And I think he's a great example of someone who is sort of willing to work across the aisle.
		And I think, first, I think he would be appalled at the Congress ceding its power to the president in this way.
		But secondly, I think that he'd be kind of on the front lines of trying to say, well, look, let's get something done.
		In terms of the White House, I have not, I will admit, I have not looked into what it is.
		What I've heard is that there's private money that's coming in that's sort of paying for this.
		That to me is sort of not sufficient in the sense that private money coming into the government still normally would have to be appropriated by the Congress.
		That it's quite fine for somebody to decide.
		Maybe you would even consider it patriotic for somebody to decide that they want to give money to the government.
		But that doesn't change clause seven of Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution that says no money shall be drawn from the Treasury but in consequences of appropriations made by law.
		By the way, this is the same issue with the $130 million that's allegedly going to be given to pay the troops.
		It's just fine for somebody to decide to take their money and give it to the government.
		But what they can't really do is say, and you can only spend it for this, right?
		When I pay my taxes, I don't say, well, I'm going to pay my taxes, but I really only want my tax money to be used for sort of X, Y, or Z.
		It goes into the Treasury, and then the Congress appropriates the money.
		So it feels to me like, again, not having looked at this in great detail, it feels to me like if this ultimately is going to have no effect on the federal budget, that the way that should happen is that the donation should be made and then there should be an appropriation made in order to do whatever renovations are going to be done to the White House.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What would be the logical extreme of that happening?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		People purchasing certain legislation?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		I think that I think when you basically said that anybody could just sort of come in and privately fund whatever kind of activity they wanted, then in the end, what that means is that you have something that you think the government should be doing that's going to benefit you in some way, and you just sort of come in and you say, well, I'm going to set this money aside.
		It's not that the Congress, that there isn't money that is set aside that can only be used for a particular purpose.
		For example, if you pay a fee to go into a national park, all of that money goes to offset the cost of the National Park Service.
		But that's because the law says that.
		That's because the Congress has sort of permitted that to happen.
		So the Congress also could make a sort of blanket permission for money like that to be used for that purpose without having to kind of go through the process of appropriating the money.
		But again, that would start with the Congress having said it could be done in that way.
		It doesn't just happen because someone woke up one morning and decided they wanted to give money.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What about gifts, perhaps in the form of an airplane to become the new Air Force One?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, my understanding is that there are rules around gifts.
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		And again, I haven't looked at this in detail, but I think what all of these things have in common is that there are established processes, and those established processes should be followed.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Time for just a couple more calls here, maybe before the speaker comes out for his Monday press conference.
		Out to Astoria, Oregon.
		Mike, Republican, go ahead.
unidentified		You know, I see the Democrats blame the Republicans, or Republicans blame the Democrats.
		I blame the American people.
		We keep electing the same people into the Senate, into the Congress, and we expect something different from them.
		I mean, we need change.
		We need term limits to get some of these older people that are so stuck in their ways out of the office.
		That's about all I have to say.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		How would you respond?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		Thanks very much.
		So, first, I was in Astoria last spring, and it's beautiful.
		So, congratulations for living there.
		I've never been there.
		I think that the, you know, I think that it is largely sort of correct that we have to ask the question: what should we, as the public, do if we don't like what our elected officials are doing?
		And we do have, you know, we do have the ability to sort of vote them out of office.
		You know, it would be hard to get into a long sort of discussion of term limits, but I do think that there's a reasonable point of view out there that says that maybe part of the problem is that we have sort of people who are career politicians who may be sort of disconnected from what the public sort of wants.
		But on the other hand, there are people who say we have term limits, they're called elections.
		If you don't like the people who are in office, you can vote them out.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Try to get this in before Speaker Johnson comes out.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Judy in Kentucky says, do you think AI could help with the budget?
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		Well, we should ask it.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		It would probably have an answer.
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		I think it would have an answer.
philip joyce ▲ ● ▼		I fear that its answer would not get it elected.
unidentified		What do you mean?

▲