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Oct. 26, 2025 14:09-14:47 - CSPAN
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Washington Journal Patricia Kim
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kimberly adams
Welcome back.
We're joined now by Patricia Kim, who is the China Center and Asia Policy Center Fellow at the Brookings Institution, here to make us update, give us all the updates on President Trump's travels to Asia.
Thank you so much for joining us at Washington Journal.
unidentified
It's a pleasure to be here, Kimberly.
kimberly adams
So one of the reasons for President Trump's trip is he's set to participate in the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Forum this week.
What is APEC and how important is it to the United States?
unidentified
Well, APEC is a regional bloc.
It's an economic bloc that includes many countries in Asia, but also countries as far as South America.
And it's an important economic counterpart to the United States because many of the United States' key economic partners from those in Northeast Asia to Southeast Asia are involved.
And so the APEC Summit will be taking place in South Korea.
And so this is where President Trump is going to have high-stakes meetings with President Xi of China.
He will also be meeting with South Korean President, President Lee Jamyong.
But he's also in a broader tour throughout the region.
He's in Malaysia right now.
kimberly adams
Actually, I'll bring up his itinerary so we can sort of go through where he's going to be today, as you mentioned, in Malaysia, meeting with the Prime Minister there.
On Monday, the President will travel to Tokyo, meeting with the new Japanese Prime Minister on Tuesday.
On Wednesday, he'll be in South Korea, meeting with the President there, as well as on Thursday, where he's going to have that meeting that's scheduled with the Chinese president on the sidelines.
That's a pretty packed schedule.
Like, why this itinerary?
Why now?
unidentified
Well, this is President Trump's first swing through the region since taking office in January.
And clearly, for this White House, the focus is on securing trade deals.
So since the President has landed in Malaysia, there have been announcements of trade deals with Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam, and Cambodia.
There have been announcements about critical minerals partnerships with some of these countries, which the United States sees as an important thing for diversifying away from reliance on rare earth minerals that largely come from China or the Chinese supply chain.
And of course, there's also a focus on peace deals, with the president having presided over a peace deal between Cambodia and Thailand that were locked in a deadly conflict this summer, a border dispute.
And so he's presided over an extended ceasefire agreement.
And I think there's also hope that he may be able to reach out or he may be able to meet with Kim Jong-un, the North Korean leader, who the president has also been very keen to strike or to restart diplomacy with to work towards peace on the Korean Peninsula.
kimberly adams
Now, that's a really good roundup of sort of what the United States is looking for out of this trip.
What do you think the various Asian countries represented there are hoping to get from President Trump on this swing?
unidentified
Well for Southeast Asian countries, let's start there first.
I think they see the United States as an important economic market, as an important economic partner, and also a vital counterweight to China.
So many of these countries count China as their largest trade partner, as a very important investor.
But they also have, many of these countries also have outstanding territorial disputes with China, and they don't want to live in a neighborhood that is dominated by China.
So they see it as important to keep the United States invested and involved in the region.
And so this trip offers them an opportunity to shore up relations with the United States and especially to have good personal relations with the President given how important of an element a personal dynamic seem to be for this administration.
kimberly adams
Everyone's going to be watching for the personal dynamics between President Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping at this meeting.
How important is that meeting and what are you expecting to come out of it?
unidentified
Yes, so that is probably the most watched part of this itinerary where President Trump will be sitting down for the first time in person with President Xi Jinping since taking office for the second time.
And of course there's a lot of interest in will there be an extension of a trade truce and sort of a ramping down of escalations between the United States and China when it comes to trade because of the because after China announced expanded export controls on rare earths, there was big concerns that this would bring global trade to a standstill.
And President Trump, of course, threatened to impose another 100% of tariffs on China.
And so there will be a lot of attention on will the two sides extend a trade truce.
There have been some preliminary announcements by U.S. and Chinese negotiators who have been meeting in Malaysia over the last two days that the two countries are likely to extend the truce and that they'll be discussing also agricultural purchases, the TikTok deal, fentanyl as well.
And so there will be a focus on trade really in this meeting between President Trump and President Xi.
kimberly adams
Trade policy has been such a key feature of the U.S. relationship with China, especially in this current Trump administration.
Can you just give us a state of play of where things stand right there?
unidentified
Well, absolutely.
So trade has indeed been the focus.
And that's also been a point of criticism because trade sort of takes up all the energy, you wonder, well, will President Trump be talking about other important issues with Xi?
For instance, we could be talking about China's support for Russia in the war in Ukraine.
We could be talking about China's support for North Korea as it continues its nuclear expansion.
But there's not much room in sort of bilateral engagements because all of the attention is on trade.
But coming back to trade, there's long been a view in the United States and especially in this administration that the economic relationship between China and the United States is lopsided, that we buy much more from China than they buy from us and that this is unsustainable, that this has hollowed out American industries, American jobs, and so that this needs to be corrected.
So that's been a focus of this administration, but also the previous administration as well.
And so that's where things are.
kimberly adams
You mentioned earlier that there's a possibility of President Trump meeting with Kim Jong-un very famously in his first administration.
He was in communication, stepped over the line, and all of those things.
What's different this time around?
unidentified
Well, there's a significant difference this time around in that North Korea is in a much stronger position because it has a mutual defense pact now with Russia because the two countries, these two isolated countries, have found a need for each other where North Korea is providing its troops to Russia so that it can continue its war against Ukraine.
And in return, it is receiving military technology, economic aid, and other assistance from Russia.
And so North Korea is feeling a lot less isolated.
At the same time, China is competing with Russia for influence over North Korea.
And ever since Kim Jong-un attended the military parade that China hosted in early September, we've seen a spike in economic activity between China and North Korea.
So North Korea is a lot less isolated.
It's in a much stronger position than before.
It is now demanding that the United States, if the United States wants to talk, if Trump wants to talk, that it needs to set aside the issue of denuclearization.
It's saying that its nuclear weapons are off the table, but anything else we can talk about.
Now, of course, that's, you know, the nuclear weapons are the issue.
And so that's the position that North Korea has taken.
It's seen less likely that the two leaders will meet because the North Korean foreign minister is actually going to Russia over the weekend and she would be a key person to coordinate any sort of meeting between Trump and Kim.
But in any case, that's North Korea's position today.
And so it'll be important to watch, you know, will Trump compromise on the U.S. long-standing policy that North Korea must give up its nuclear weapons?
We hope not.
But those are some of the concerns that exist around what does the strengthened North Korean position do for it.
kimberly adams
You mentioned earlier about the peace agreement or the extended ceasefire agreement that was signed between Thailand and Cambodia.
Another big security issue that could be coming up is Taiwan.
To what extent do you think that is going to be a topic of discussion and where do things stand there?
unidentified
Yes, so there are concerns that, you know, will Taiwan be on the negotiating table between the United States and China.
And the reason why there are such concerns is because President Trump has, you know, compared to his predecessors, spoken more in a more lukewarm manner about the U.S.-Taiwan relationship.
He has characterized Taiwan as an economic competitor to the United States rather than a vital democratic partner in the region.
And so there are concerns that, you know, if China pushed him, would he make concessions on Taiwan?
And earlier this year, the Taiwanese president was denied a transit through New York City.
There was also a cancellation of a planned meeting between defense officials between the United States and Taiwan.
And these were largely seen as concessions to make China happy, to pave the way for a U.S.-China trade deal.
And that's, of course, very dangerous because if you don't want to convey the sense that the United States-Taiwan policy, that its relationship with Taiwan is negotiable.
And that would be bad for deterrence, not just in the Taiwan Strait, but also send all the wrong signals to U.S. allies around the world who depend on the United States' commitment for their security.
And so there is concern there.
I think Secretary Rubio has come out to say that Taiwan is not on the agenda.
It's not going to be discussed, but we'll have to watch and see how the Trump-Xi meeting goes.
kimberly adams
This administration has made a lot of efforts, and the Biden administration as well, to move a lot of semiconductor chip manufacturing to the United States, which is one of the reasons that Taiwan is so important to the United States.
How do you think that changing dynamic is going to affect U.S.-Taiwan relationships as well as this ongoing sort of standoff with China over this issue?
unidentified
Well, you know, with chip manufacturing, I think there is a realization that the United States has to have its own capabilities to produce these vital industrial components.
And actually, Taiwan has been a big part of the push to help reindustrialize the United States to bring back chip manufacturing capabilities to the United States.
And so, in that sense, it's actually a vital partner.
I don't think Taiwan's role as a critical node in this chip supply chain is going to disappear anytime soon.
But with the United States, you know, there has been this effort to, again, sort of bring back supply chains, not just on chips, but on many critical inputs to the United States.
There was this realization, especially during the pandemic, that we had grown too dependent on other countries, and especially China, for everything from mass to, you know, what have you.
And so there was this push to reindustrialize and to make sure that we diversify and that we're not too reliant on Chinese supply chains.
That is an ongoing effort.
That is part of a lot of the trade deals that are being struck around the world.
For instance, with South Korea and Japan, which have both committed very large amounts of investments into the United States to help the U.S. with reindustrializing.
And so we'll have to see how those actually play out, but there is an effort underway to make the U.S. more resilient.
kimberly adams
You mentioned Japan.
That's another stop on the trip.
Japan has a new prime minister, the first woman prime minister of Japan ever.
unidentified
What do you see ahead for that trade relationship?
Well, for Prime Minister Takaichi, who just literally became Prime Minister a few days ago, her priority will be establishing a good relationship with President Trump.
Because for Japan, the United States is a vital security partner, treaty ally.
And it really, the concern is that President Trump is known to be an alliance skeptic.
He tends to see allies as burdens rather than assets for the United States.
And so Japan and other allies like South Korea are in a position to have to demonstrate to the United States that they actually bring a lot to the table.
And so we've seen the Prime Minister announce just in the last 24 hours, I believe, that Japan will be accelerating its timeline to boost its defense spending up to 2% of GDP by two years.
So it's going to go faster than its commitment by two years.
It has also talked about making sure that the trade deal that has been struck between the United States and Japan goes forward, is sustainable for both sides.
And so that's what the new prime minister will have to juggle as she manages this relationship with the United States.
kimberly adams
If you all have questions for Patricia Kim of the Brookings Institution, you can call in Republicans at 202-748-8001, Democrats at 202-748-8000.
And Independents at 202-748-8002.
Before we get to those calls, let's listen to some of the comments that President Trump made earlier today at that ceremony where Thailand and Cambodia signed that expanded ceasefire agreement.
donald j trump
Today, alongside this peace treaty, we also are signing a major trade deal with Cambodia and a very important critical minerals agreement with Thailand.
The United States will have a robust commerce and cooperation, transactions, lots of them, with both nations as long as they live in peace.
And I really feel that when we make deals, we see two countries that we do a lot of business with.
We do a lot of business with both of them.
We have to use that business to make sure they don't get into wars.
But this is going to be a very long peace.
So as you know, this is one of eight wars that my administration has ended in just eight months.
We're averaging one a month.
There's only one left.
Although I heard that Pakistan and Afghanistan have started up, but I'll get that solved very quickly.
I know them both.
Pakistan, the field marshal and the prime minister are great people, and I have no doubt we're going to get that done quickly.
That one started up a few days ago.
And I just feel it's something I can do.
I do it nicely.
I don't need to do it, I guess.
But if I can take time and save millions of lives, that's really a great thing.
unidentified
I can't think of anything better to do.
kimberly adams
All right.
Now we'll take your questions for Patricia Kim of the Brookings Institution.
We'll start with John in Mechanicsville, New York on our line for independence.
Good morning, John.
unidentified
All right, Kim.
Thanks for taking my call.
Quick question for Patricia.
I honestly don't think, excuse me, I honestly don't think that there's going to be any real meaningful progress when Trump meets Xi Jinping.
And the reason I say that is because, you know, while the United States is establishing, I guess the word is hegemony in the Western Hemisphere, China wants to do it in the Pacific Rim region.
I mean, you saw during World War II, Japan trying to do it.
And I think that's China's goal.
I mean, and you're seeing military camps being established right now with China, Russia, and South Korea, as Ms. Kim said.
And the United States is courting Australia, Japan, and South Korea, and possibly India that had a conflict with China, I think, back in 1965.
China is an authoritarian government.
They have a totally different style of government that we had and has a totally different mindset.
And they're determined that they're going to surpass the United States and be the world's leading superpower.
And also, there's a question that I have with its Belt and Road Initiative, China.
How, over the past five, six decades, when China was emerging as an industrial power, how is it that the United States let China gain possession of the vast majority of rare earth minerals that we need today?
And that's certainly these corporate corporatists that have moved everything to China now sourced that they knew what was happening.
How did the United States allow China to gain ownership of all these so vital?
I'd appreciate an answer.
Thank you.
kimberly adams
Thanks, John.
So a couple of issues there.
The idea of regional hegemony and China versus the United States there, the success of the Belt and Road Initiative globally, and also how it is that the United States sort of stepped back while China kind of cornered the market on rare earths globally.
unidentified
Great.
Well, John, thank you for your comments and your questions.
Starting first on sort of your doubts that the U.S. and China are likely to strike a trade deal, maybe I will offer first.
I think Beijing doesn't have high hopes that a trade deal with the United States will actually fundamentally reset the U.S.-China relationship.
I think both Washington and Beijing understand that they are probably locked in decades of strategic rivalry and competition, and that's going to stay.
Having said that, I do think Beijing ultimately wants a trade deal with the United States because signing one would, first of all, lower tariffs, which are at a high rate right now.
It would inject a measure of stability in the U.S.-China relationship, which they see as a good thing.
And it would keep President Trump invested in the U.S.-China relationship.
And that's a good thing for China because it would restrain the more hawkish voices within the administration or on Capitol Hill who want to take more hardline economic measures or other measures against China.
And so, in essence, a trade deal would buy China time and space to advance its long-term goals of being more technologically self-sufficient and having leadership in industries of the future, which it sees as its path to prevailing in a strategic competition with the United States.
And that goes to how did China become dominant in rare earths or other strategic industries?
I mean, China is, as you say, a one-party state.
It's an authoritarian country.
It has the ability to sort of lay out these long-term plans and really sort of focus all of the industries on it.
And so rare earths is one of the areas where Chinese leaders decided that this was a strategic input that China needed to have dominance in.
And they went and actually made that happen.
And so China actually just wrapped up its plenum where it sort of mapped out the next five years of its economic plans.
And in those plans, again, are sort of our sort of priorities of doubling down on strategic industries, technologies, industries of the future.
I'm sure rare earths is a part of that.
And so this is very much a country that moves strategically.
And I think that that gets to the question of how China was able to have dominance in the rare earths arena.
kimberly adams
Kevin is in Washington, D.C., on our line for Democrats.
Good morning, Kevin.
unidentified
Hello.
Two things that Trump is really good at is ending wars and suing people.
I wonder if he'll bring up the COVID.
Maybe we can finance the ACA by holding China accountable for its role in the most catastrophic pandemic of our time, COVID-19.
And this was covered by Heritage, where Director Radcliffe, this was back in July last, in 2024.
He said that we know a lot of stuff we can't talk about, but now that he's in charge of the CIA, they can talk about it.
And maybe they could have like a dedicated fund that China pays into for leaking COVID and not alerting the world.
And the other person that spoke at that talk at the Heritage Foundation was Robert Redfield.
He has a book coming out beginning of November.
It's called Redfield's Warning, saying we need to cooperate internationally to control the threat that biotech with the AI is causing to the world.
So I appreciate if you showed that Not Brookings under Heritage Talks.
kimberly adams
So we're going to probably not be able to play that talk today, but Patricia, you want to respond to some of those comments that Kevin made?
unidentified
Sure.
I think I have not heard anything about this administration, at least this time around, bringing up the COVID-19 pandemic and accountability for China on that issue.
But I do think that the focus really is on striking a trade deal with China that would rebalance the U.S.-China economic relationship.
I think President Trump is actually, rather than penalizing China, is more interested in perhaps investment deals with China that would bring Chinese money into the United States.
That hasn't really been discussed fully, but there are differing views within the administration of how we should be approaching China.
There are some in the administration who believe that we need to diversify away from China, that economic interdependence is not good.
Whereas I think the president himself would be keen to have a similar deal that he struck with other countries like South Korea and Japan, where there are big investment numbers of Chinese money into the United States, big deals on agricultural purchases, perhaps plane purchases.
I think that's where sort of the president's head is, not so much on sort of the pandemic or other issues like that.
kimberly adams
Dave is in Hale, Michigan on our line for independence.
Good morning, Dave.
unidentified
Good morning.
Patricia, I've got a question for you just to spark my interest.
Putin and Xi, would they happen to be any kind of in cooperation or anything with what's going on in Ukraine through the shipping ports of Ukraine?
I know that Putin wants it, and maybe Xi has got this kind of the same mutual idea that maybe it works in their favor as a pass-through way of cheap mineral concerns that's on its way maybe through there.
Maybe that's what Donald Trump wants to talk about.
tom homan
I'll take my answer off the air if you want to kind of bring us to light on that.
unidentified
Thank you.
Sure.
I'm happy to talk about the Putin and Xi relationship.
I mean, there is a very strong bromance between these two leaders.
We've seen actually China and Russia's strategic ties deepen over the last decade plus since Xi Jinping came to power.
I think it's very clear that Beijing sees Russia as a vital strategic partner and counterweight to the United States.
At one point, it was talking about Russia as the no-limits partner of China.
And so China has really stepped up to maintain trade ties with Russia so that it's less isolated after its invasion of Ukraine.
Even as the U.S. has put pressure on China not to help Russia out in the last three years since the war has been going on, China sort of has held its ground.
I think it wants to make sure that it does not alienate Putin because again, Putin is seen as a vital partner by Xi Jinping to work with, to align with against the United States.
John is in Sykesville, Maryland on our line for Republicans.
kimberly adams
Good morning, John.
unidentified
Hi, good morning.
Can you hear me all right?
kimberly adams
Yes, we can hear you.
joe cardinale
Yeah, just I'm wondering how all the trade with consideration for the GDP with China and I guess the rest of the world for that matter in general.
unidentified
Scott Besson has always put the focus on the debt to GDP and if we can create more jobs, which I believe makes sense in my mind, that Trump is focusing on job creation and creating a productive economy because I don't think we can tax our way out of it.
You can't tax your way to prosperity and we've gotten too grown used to just spending as we see fit.
So times of austerity are coming.
I don't care what anybody thinks, but that's just the way it makes sense to me.
If you spend more than you make, you're not going to last very long.
So we need to do business with China.
We need to do business with the rest of the world and do as much of it as possible.
Okay.
Thank you.
Yeah, I think, John, you're right.
I think there is a focus on bringing foreign investment into the United States because that's one way that you boost the United States job market, that you reindustrialize the United States.
So as I mentioned before, some of the biggest trade deals that the U.S. has with its allies and partners include a $550 billion investment deal with Japan and a $350 investment deal with South Korea.
And those involve these countries, these allies of the United States, investing in critical industries in the United States.
Now, of course, what's important is that the details of those deals have still to be fully hammered out.
And for those deals to be sustainable, they'll need to be mutually beneficial, both to the United States, but also to the people of Japan and South Korea.
So those are issues that the U.S. and its counterparts are working on.
And I imagine that's the type of deal that the administration might welcome with China as well.
kimberly adams
Alan is in Arkansas on our line for independence.
Good morning, Alan.
unidentified
Yeah, hi.
Good morning, Patricia and everybody on a Sunday morning.
I am so glad to see you on.
You remind me, Patricia, of a couple of things.
As a kid, 70 years ago, I remember the Protestant denomination I grew up attending church with.
We had a Christmas offering every Christmas called the Lottie Moon Christmas offering for China.
kimberly adams
So we're almost out of time for this segment, Alan.
Did you have a question about the president's trip through Asia or trade policy?
unidentified
Well, yeah, I just wanted to know how that relates to her.
I know Brookings is more of a left-leaning group, but I wanted to know how she sees America's help in China's policy toward open Christian opportunity and worship.
kimberly adams
I guess that's a bit of a policy question in terms of China's treatment of various religious groups.
unidentified
So human rights issues, religious freedom, have always been important topics that the United States has traditionally pursued in conversations with Chinese counterparts.
I'm not sure how much of a focus it has been for this administration, at least up to now, given how much trade has taken up the oxygen in the U.S.-China relationship.
But, you know, human rights issues, again, people-to-people ties, those have also been very important elements of the U.S.-China relationship going back decades.
kimberly adams
Richard is in Rockville, Maryland, on our line for Democrats.
Good morning, Richard.
unidentified
Good morning.
I recall that not so very long ago, there was concern about the United States being spun up in the Middle East and Ukraine and other issues that China think was a good time to strike at Taiwan.
And there were increased military activities in the Taiwan Strait accordingly.
I'm just wondering, do you see this trade agreement or negotiations discussions as having set that concern back a little bit so that you're not quite so fearful of an immediate attack on Taiwan?
Yeah, that's a great question, Richard.
Thank you.
I think, you know, as you mentioned, in the Taiwan Strait, we've really seen a ramp up of Chinese military pressure and coercion vis-a-vis Taiwan.
We've seen a dramatic transformation, actually, of Chinese military capabilities.
And so it's a concern.
It's a concern on whether China will try to coerce Taiwan into some sort of negotiated or on some sort of settlement of the cross-strait differences.
Of course, U.S. policy, long-standing policy on Taiwan is that we do not support a violent change or a unilateral change to the status quo, that any cross-strait differences should be resolved peacefully.
You know, I think when the U.S. and China have a more stable relationship, perhaps it does provide opportunities for the two sides to talk candidly about these issues.
And so it could help with questions surrounding Taiwan as well.
kimberly adams
Well, thank you.
That's all the time that we have with Patricia Kim, who is the China Center and Asia Policy Center Fellow at the Brookings Institution.
Thank you so much for sharing your expertise.
unidentified
Sure.
Thank you, Kimberly.
Watch America's Book Club, C-SPAN's bold new original series.
Today with our guest, Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett, only the fifth woman to serve on the high court and author of the book, Listening to the Law.
She joins our host, renowned author and civic leader David Rubinstein.
david rubenstein
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justice amy coney barrett
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