CSPAN - Washington Journal Kate Andersen Brower

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Oct. 24, 2025 20:58-21:29 - CSPAN

30:28

Washington Journal Kate Andersen Brower

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greta brawner

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karoline leavitt

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greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We want to welcome to our table Kate Anderson Brower.
		She's the author of The Residence Inside the Private World of the White House.
		Kate Anderson Brower, let's begin with some images that we have seen, some satellite images of the renovations at the White House.
		I want to show our viewers and what they can see on their screen right now on the right is the East Wing intact.
		And then on the left, you can see the demolition of the East Wing taking place over the past few days at the White House.
		Let's begin as they continue to look at these images with the history of the East Wing.
		How did it come about?
unidentified		Well, it was built by Teddy Roosevelt as an entry, a formal entry for the public to come into the White House.
		And that's where people come in for public tours.
		And then FDR, another Roosevelt, expanded it in 1942.
		And it was during World War II that it was really used as a cover for the presidential emergency bunker.
		That's a place where presidents can go in case of a terrorist attack.
		We know that President George W. Bush went there during 9-11.
		And so the fact that the East Wing is known as the First Lady's office is, yes, it is, but it's also the Social Secretary's office.
		It's where the calligraphers go.
		There is a movie theater there.
		Jackie Kennedy's Garden is there.
		I don't believe any longer it looks like it doesn't exist anymore.
		And, you know, Thomas Jefferson had it built so that it would balance out this neoclassical, you know, he had the second wing, the East Wing built in general to the East Colonnade to balance out the White House.
		That was really the main purpose.
		And then Roosevelt's expanded it.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		The colonnade, explain the history of that and have people seen the colonnade in action over the years.
unidentified		Well, for state dinners, that's where people come in for photographs before the dinner.
		So when you see, you know, tech CEOs and other members of Congress.
		Yes, all dressed that black tie, you're seeing them walk through the East Wing.
		And anytime there are Christmas parties, that's where members of the press, members of Congress are coming through that place.
		But it's also, like I said, it's the public entrance near the Treasury Department.
		And a lot of people will recognize it having come to the White House before.
		So it's not just the First Lady's office, although that, in my view, as someone who studies First Ladies, is important enough.
		Why?
		Because the president's spouse has been, I think, devalued over the years.
		A position is impossible.
		You are, you know, you have to meet endless expectations and lots of criticism.
		You see someone like Hillary Clinton, she had her office in the West Wing, and that was a huge problem for her.
		People did not want that.
		The first First Lady to use the East Wing was Rosalind Carter in 1977.
		And I think that she professionalized that role.
		She went there every day.
		And it's a way for the First Lady to feel active.
		This is an unpaid position.
		Nothing in the Constitution describes what they're supposed to do, right?
		So by literally taking a wrecking ball to the East Wing, it diminishes the role of the First Lady.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Kate Anderson Brower joining us this morning.
		We told you she's the author of The Residence Inside the Private World of the White House.
		She is also the author of First Women, The Grace and Power of America's Modern First Ladies.
		What impact did Jackie Kennedy have on the East Wing?
unidentified		Oh, enormous.
		I mean, well, she was the one who came up with the entire White House renovation.
		So she started the White House Historical Association.
		And she went to this, there's a really interesting building in suburban Maryland where all of these historic pieces are kept from presidents throughout the years.
		And she actually culled through them and brought back important pieces.
		She was aghast at how run down the White House was.
		It's the people's house.
		She wanted to open it up to people.
		And that's why when she did the White House tour, it was so incredible to have that televised for the American public to get a chance to see inside the White House for the first time.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		You mentioned renovations over the years under different presidents.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Were those renovations controversial?
unidentified		Yes.
		Not quite like this, but the Harry Truman renovation was the last major renovation.
		So late 1940s, early 50s, and the Trumans had to leave the White House and live in Blair House for those years.
		And the White House was completely gutted.
		I mean, it's incredible to see those images, to see what they did to rebuild it.
		But that's because it was structurally not sound.
		This is something that didn't have to happen at this moment in this way.
		And I think that's the thing that people are concerned about, just the speed at which it happens.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's talk about this moment and show from the New York Times this morning these renderings.
		This is the White House as it stood, right there on your screen.
		And you can see the East Wing on the right, the visitor's office demolished.
		The East Wing housed the offices of the First Lady and her staff, as we noted.
		Now let's take a look at the second rendering from the New York Times, what Trump envisioned.
		And you can see there on your screen, North Portico and a ballroom added to the East Wing.
		Talk about the footprint here that the president is building.
unidentified		Well, it's going to be twice the size of the house now.
		It's not going to be proportional to the White House at all.
		As you see, the East Wing is going to be so much larger than the West Wing because of this ballroom.
		And look, there are a lot of people, and I've spoken with many people who worked for First Ladies over the years, many people who worked in the residence staff who said, and social secretaries, who said they did need an entertaining space, that having these parties on the South Lawn was not convenient in a tent when the weather was bad.
		But they were not, to my understanding, envisioning something quite like this.
		And a lot of people I've talked to are in mourning about this, who have worked in the East Wing because this was their home.
		And it's shocking to see it not literally not exist anymore.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Let's listen to the White House Press Secretary, Caroline Lovitt.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		She held a briefing yesterday and she drew on history to defend the current ballroom project.
karoline leavitt ▲ ● ▼		There have been many presidents in the past who have made their mark on this beautiful White House complex.
		This briefing room, as you all know, was not once a briefing room.
		It was a swimming pool.
		There have been presidents who have completely torn down the executive mansion.
		If you look at what President Truman did, some of the photos of the construction project that took place in those years.
		I think sitting here today, we're all grateful for those efforts and the modifications that happened at that time.
		And again, in due time, the East Wing is going to be more beautiful and modern than ever before.
		And in addition, there will be a big, beautiful ballroom that can hold big parties and state visits for generations to come.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		The White House Press Secretary during the briefing yesterday, Kate Anderson-Brower, you said it's the way that this is being done is why it appears or is perceived as more controversial.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Explain.
unidentified		Well, we know that historic preservation organizations have sent letters to the Capitol Planning Commission in charge of this and said, and to the National Park Service, and said, please wait until there is a public discussion about these plans.
		And I think that the fact that this is done with such speed and so suddenly and in such a hugely drastic way.
		I mean, Trump is a real estate construction guy at his heart, right?
		And by doing this this way, it's kind of like, you know, ask permission, ask forgiveness, not permission.
		And that's what he's done.
		It's too late.
		Everything else he's done can be undone.
		The Oval Office gilding, that can be undone by the White House Operations Department in an hour.
		The rose garden, the concrete can be, you know, taken up and resotted.
		This will not be undone.
		And he's leaving his mark on the White House because he wants people to know hundreds of years from now that he was there.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We'll go to Joe in Evans, West Virginia, Democratic Caller.
		You're up first in this conversation.
		Good morning.
unidentified		I was just going to.
		Well, thanks, everybody.
		I was just going to say and ask the question about the procedures that had come before on the renovations before like people talking about Obama's basketball court and those kind of things.
		And I'd just like to.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Joe, so procedures.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		I think what he means by that is there, you know, some sort of procedure or protocol when a president makes renovations to the White House.
unidentified		It's shocking, but there really isn't.
		A lot of this is custom.
		It's not law.
		It's, you know, most presidents have a deep understanding that they are temporary residents of the White House.
		It's not their home.
		So they do things very incrementally.
		And remember, President Obama got all that blowback for making the tennis court into a basketball court.
		And that is such a small, small thing compared to what we're seeing now.
		So, I mean, this Truman balcony was very controversial at the time.
		And I would say that that's a beloved part of the White House today.
		So there is a chance that hundreds of years from now, people could look back on this and say it was a wonderful addition.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Well, people point to President Obama's term when he had to put a tent out back in order to house enough guests for a state dinner that he was hosting because indoors there's not enough room.
unidentified		That's true.
		And I covered some of those state dinners as a reporter for Bloomberg News at the time.
		And those were gorgeous, gorgeous affairs.
		I mean, when people say they were like backyard barbecue tents, it was not that the case at all.
		But yes, this will be much more convenient given the weather.
		And also, presidents, you know, they want to show off the White House to foreign leaders.
		And the White House is a modest house compared to European palaces.
		That's what George Washington wanted.
		It wasn't a president.
		I mean, it wasn't a king, it was a president, and so it was meant to be restrained.
		And I think that that is what is surprising about this ballroom.
		There is nothing restrained about it.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		The Washington Post notes this morning that Caroline Levitt introduced, when she introduced the project to the public in July, she said the wing would be modernized, not demolished.
		Trump said then that it would cost about $200 million and hold 650 guests, estimates that have increased to 300 million in nearly 1,000, respectively.
		Kenneth, let's hear from you in Virginia, Republican caller.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I just would like to know: are we really all that surprised?
		You know, this coming from a man who doesn't ask permission to touch a woman's senatalia before he does.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Matthew in Dearborn, Michigan, Democratic caller, Matthew, you're next.
unidentified		Hi, how are you doing?
		What I don't like about it, he's using the general contractor's non-union labor.
		That and the Volvo's that were tearing it down.
		They're all built overseas, and he's the America first president.
		He never seems to think about America first.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Matthew.
		San Diego in Oklahoma, Republican.
		Let's hear from you.
unidentified		Yes, my name is Santiago.
		My question is: why don't the president hire two secret service agents to get Navy SEALs to build him his residential extension of the White House?
		That would be inexpensive, and that way top security would be at demand.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let's talk about the cost of these renovations.
		More reporting from the Washington Post this morning.
		Trump told reporters Thursday that private donors had given about $350 million for the project and that he had personally contributed millions of dollars.
		Do we know that to be the case?
		How do where would the checks be?
		How could Americans view that?
unidentified		We don't know the amount of money that the president has given or even the amount that all of these companies have given.
		We know that major companies like Apple have made donations and there are some ethical questions about why you would make a donation of this size and scope to the president.
		And obviously, Curry's favor, and it is not a partisan issue at all.
		You have Richard Painter, who worked for George W. Bush, bringing this up that there could be a quid pro quo kind of situation here.
		It is not.
		I think what's interesting about this is that it is not partisan.
		This is the love people have, Americans have, for the White House.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		From the Washington Post, the White House on Thursday also released a list of donors to the project, which included companies such as Apple, Amazon, Google, and Palantar, and wealthy individuals such as Blackstone CBO Steven Schwartzmann and crypto's investor Tyler and Cameron Winklevoss.
		Jeff Bezos owns the Post.
		They note a $22 million chunk came from a settlement Trump reached with Google-owned video site YouTube, ending a lawsuit he brought over the company's 2021 decision to suspend his account in the wake of the January 6, 2021 attacks on the U.S. Capitol.
		Felicia in Washington, D.C., Democratic caller, your comment or question?
unidentified		Hello, I listened to some of the Republican college and they were wondering what I did about law of procedure for doing these things.
		But the thing about the question really is, does Carlyn Levitt is pressured secretary said that Trump is transparent.
		And she said something else about him.
		And I'm wondering, does Trump plan to leave the White House in 2029?
		And that's your basic question.
		Or is she getting ready to find some reason or another or emergency she gave as his reason for staying in the White House?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Felicia's comments there about these renovations and what do they ultimately mean.
		You heard her opinion there.
		Kate Anderson Brower, you mentioned the bunker that's been under the East Wing that was built.
		And was that controversial?
		And what does it do exactly?
		Have Americans ever seen this bunker?
unidentified		It's a very interesting space.
		I mean, President Trump went there during the George Floyd protests.
		And like I said, George W. Bush was there during 9-11.
		So we've seen images.
		It is a very top secret.
		It is a secure bunker in case of an attack.
		FDR had it built during World War II.
		And, you know, I'm actually unclear as to whether it exists now.
		It's underground, so I believe that it does.
		And the military could be working on revamping it.
		But I think that the larger question I have as someone who looks at First Ladies is where is her staff going to work?
		We know that some of them now are actually working in the ground floor, in the China room, in these historic rooms of the White House, main residence.
		If they're eventually going to go to the Eisenhower executive office building, that's taking them out of the seat of power.
		And I know having covered the White House, they're already in, they call it Siberia, right?
		They're already removed from the West Wing.
		Everything in the White House is about proximity to the Oval Office.
		So if you're in the East Wing, at least you're on the White House general complex.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		What powers do the First Ladies have and should they have power when Americans are voting for the president?
unidentified		That's a wonderful question.
		And I think people are debating it all the time.
		I think that they have tremendous influence culturally.
		And from Eleanor Roosevelt on, we've seen that they can be a real emissary for their husbands, going out and talking to people around the world.
		And what Dr. Biden did was really interesting, working outside of the White House for the first time.
		She's the first First Lady to do that.
		So I think the question is whether they can work outside, whether they should be allowed to work outside of the White House.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Tom in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, Republican.
		Hi, Tom.
		Hey, Tom, you have to mute your television, all right?
		You ready to go?
		All right.
		Sorry, maybe you can call back in, Tom.
		Will Anderson, South Carolina, independent.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm livid.
		I'm a preservationist myself and have restored an old house over the last 20 years.
		And this power mad vandal destroying our social safety net, Bill of Rights, and now the White House is just too much.
		I'm hoping and praying this is the straw that breaks the camel's back and the people and Republican Party grows a pair and we get rid of this monster.
		It's absurd.
		And I'm just, I'm deeply saddened by this tragedy.
		But thank y'all for covering it and hope you all have a great rest of the day.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Will.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Kate Anderson Brower.
unidentified		I think he's articulating what a lot of people feel.
		I mean, when George Washington and his Secretary of State at the time, Thomas Jefferson, were looking at plans for the White House, Pierre L'Enfant, the French architect who designed Washington, D.C., submitted a plan for a presidential palace.
		And they absolutely said, no, this is not a palace.
		This is the people's house.
		This is the president's house, and he will not live there forever.
		And so they rejected the plan, and they ended up with something that was five times smaller than what Lawnfont envisioned.
		And I think that there's a neoclassical kind of restrained design to the White House.
		And it's just shocking to me that this happened because when I talk to White House curators, every single piece of furniture on the state floor is accounted for.
		They love this house.
		The people on the resident staff, about 100 of them from carpenters to housekeepers, calligraphers, this house is sacred to them as it is to the American people.
		So it's stunning to see this.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Jackson, Maryland, Democratic caller.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jack.
unidentified		Hey, good morning, ladies.
		I just want to make a point that what Trump has done to the East Wing is indicative of how he feels about government overall.
		I mean, if you just think about how he's conducted himself in his second term, he's blown through all of the customs, norms, and institutions that's really sustained our country for the last hundred years.
		So this isn't a surprise.
		It's not a surprise at how he's gone about it.
		He blatantly lied in saying it was just going to be a modest modification to the East Wing.
		It won't be a complete demolition.
		And then literally, within a week, the entire East Wing was gone.
		It was a blatant lie.
		The cost has inflated to $300 million.
		And again, it's indicative of how Trump feels about government overall.
		And symbolically, when this monstrosity is completed, it's going to look awful.
		I think your guest made the point that it's going to be twice the size of the White House itself.
		There won't be any balance.
		So aesthetically, it's just going to look odd and awkward.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, we'll take that point again.
		Kate Anderson Brower, you talked about the symmetry or lack thereof.
		Here's the rendering again from the New York Times of what the president envisions.
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, when Thomas Jefferson built the East Colonnade, which was controversial at the time, it was all, he didn't build the East Wing, he built the colonnade.
		It was all about symmetry.
		And now you see it will certainly not be symmetrical.
		The White House, the executive mansion itself, which is where the president lives, is 55,000 square feet.
		So, and then you have the West Wing, which is a separate square footage.
		But so we are talking right now about adding 90,000 square feet.
		So it'll be much larger, almost twice as big as the White House residence, which is the state floor, which is the East Room, the state dining room, all those public spaces.
		And I am not an architect, but you can clearly see that this is not going to be symmetrical anymore.
		And I think that people have every right to voice their concern.
		I mean, it really is the people's house.
		And again, I don't think that this is a partisan issue in any way.
		And it's a shame that it has become that way.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Margaret's in Florida, Republican.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Margaret.
unidentified		Hi.
		I am a Republican calling on the Republican line.
		I was wondering, my question is, where may I send a donation to help with the construction of the ballroom?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Margaret, you want to donate.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		And why do you want to donate?
unidentified		Because I think it's a good idea.
		Just like Barack Obama said that he can't, he had to have a tent out to have all these dignitaries out in the grass sitting in a tent, no matter what the weather is.
		It would be nice to have such a ballroom.
		It's just another addition.
		It's just like everybody does to their own house, whether they paint it or change the bathroom or whatever.
		All right.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Margaret's thoughts there in Florida.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Kate Anderson-Brower, do you have a response?
unidentified		Well, I think if you want to build a pool or put any addition on your house, you actually have to go through some permitting.
		So I think that this was a decision that could have been worked out with the White House Historical Association, with the National Park Service, and just done more carefully.
		I know we've seen the renderings.
		We don't have a real solid idea of what it will look like.
		And again, putting your own stamp on the White House is absolutely fine.
		And presidents do do that in the residence.
		They hire interior decorators to redo bedrooms.
		And every president does that.
		But I think the concern here is that it is a real permanent change.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		What is the budget for redoing the White House when you come in as a new president?
unidentified		You know, it's a couple hundred thousand dollars.
		You don't have to, you don't have to take it.
		You can use your private funds.
		And I actually don't know, and I'd be curious to know the salary of $400,000 that the president gets.
		He has mentioned, you know, maybe he'll use some of, that's a drop in the bucket for this project, but maybe he would use some of that for the ballroom.
		And I don't know, I thought that President Trump wasn't taking that salary or that he was giving it to charity.
		But it is absolutely okay to make your, put your stamp on the White House.
		That's not the issue.
		This is just such a permanent change.
		And it's no other president, I mean, think of FDR, right?
		He didn't have, when Truman came into the White House, it was a mess because Roosevelt didn't have the time to deal with decor.
		So I think people are worried about, you know, the cost of groceries more than this, and they want the president to spend more time on the economy than on.
		Most people are not going to go to a state dinner or get invited to the East Ballroom.
		And I think it's just, in a way, a distraction from real pressing issues.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		And from the Washington Post reporting about the president's contribution, they said that he told reporters Thursday that private donors had given about $350 million for the project and that he had personally contributed millions of dollars.
		Our guest, Kate Anderson Brower, you can read her books.
		She's the author of The Residence Inside the Private World of the White House.
		And her other book is First Women, The Grace and Power of America's Modern First Ladies.
		Kate Anderson Brower, thank you for the conversation this morning.
unidentified		Thank you, Greta.
brian lamb ▲ ● ▼		The book is called Breakneck, China's Quest to Engineer the Future.
		Author Dan Wong was born in China in 1992.
		His parents moved to Canada when he was seven.
		In 2014, he graduated from the University of Rochester in New York.
		Then in 2018, Dan Wong went to live in China until he returned to the U.S. in 2023.
		He then went to the offices of the Yale Law School and wrote about his comparison of China and the United States.
		He writes in his intro, quote, a strain of materialism, often crass, runs through both countries, sometimes producing variations of successful entrepreneurs, sometimes creating displays of extraordinary tastelessness, but overall contributing to a spirit of vigorous competition.
unidentified		Author Dan Wong with his book Breakneck, China's Quest to Engineer the Future, on this episode of BookNotes Plus with our host, Brian Lamb.
		Book Notes Plus is available wherever you get your podcasts and on the C-SPAN Now app.
		American History TV, exploring the people and events that tell the American story.
		This weekend, as the nation celebrates the 250th anniversary of its founding, join American History TV for our series, America 250, and discover the ideas and defining moments of the American story.
		This week, U.S. Navy and Marine Corps mark their 250th anniversary.
		First, retired Marine Corps General Jason Bohm, author of Washington's Marines, explores the creation of the U.S. Marine Corps.
		Then, the Marines demonstrate an amphibious assault at Camp Pendleton in celebration of their birthday.
		Speakers include Vice President JD Vance, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, and others.
		On Lectures in History, University of North Carolina professor Marcus Gadson discusses a successful campaign to overthrow the South Carolina government, triggering a constitutional crisis during Reconstruction.
		On the presidency, it's a study of presidential leadership, with scholars looking at George W. Bush's 2003 President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief and Barack Obama's 2011 raid, which ended in the death of 9-11 terrorist Osama bin Laden.
		Exploring the American story, watch American History TV every weekend and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at c-span.org/slash history.
		...and past president...
		...why?
		Why are you doing this?
		This is outrageous.
		This is a kangaroo corpus.
		Fridays, C-SPAN presents a rare moment of unity: Ceasefire, where the shouting stops and the conversation begins.
		Politico Playbook chief correspondent and White House Bureau Chief Dasha Burns is host of Ceasefire, bringing two leaders from opposite sides of the aisle into a dialogue.
		Ceasefire, on the network that doesn't take sides.
		Fridays at 7 and 10 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN.
jimmy carter ▲ ● ▼		Democracy is always an unfinished creation.
ronald reagan ▲ ● ▼		Democracy is worth dying for.
george h w bush ▲ ● ▼		Democracy belongs to us all.
bill clinton ▲ ● ▼		We are here in the sanctuary of democracy.
george w bush ▲ ● ▼		Great responsibilities fall once again to the great democracies.
barack obama ▲ ● ▼		American democracy is bigger than any one person.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Freedom and democracy must be constantly guarded and protected.
unidentified		We are still at our core a democracy.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		This is also a massive victory for democracy and for freedom.
unidentified		New York Attorney General Letitia James spoke to the press and supporters after pleading not guilty for mortgage fraud at a federal court hearing in Norfolk, Virginia.
unidentified		She says, This is not about me.

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