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Oct. 24, 2025 13:36-14:00 - CSPAN
23:56
Washington Journal Kate Andersen Brower
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greta brawner
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karoline leavitt
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david rubenstein
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justice amy coney barrett
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Today, on C-SPAN's Ceasefire, in a time of sharp political divides, two senators from opposite sides of the aisle come together for a candid conversation.
Delaware Democrat Senator Chris Coons and Oklahoma Republican Senator James Lankford discuss cooperation on key foreign policy and the government shutdown.
They join host Dasha Burns to talk about what really matters today at 7 p.m. Eastern and Pacific.
Ceasefire only on C-SPAN.
Watch America's Book Club, C-SPAN's bold new original series.
Sunday with our guest, Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett.
Only the fifth woman to serve on the high court and author of the book, Listening to the Law.
She joins our host, renowned author and civic leader David Rubenstein.
david rubenstein ▲ ● ▼
And what do you hope most people will take away from your book?
justice amy coney barrett ▲ ● ▼
I think what I want them to take away from the book is that they should be proud of the court.
And I want them to be able, I want them to understand the way the court grapples with the legal questions that matter to the country.
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Watch America's Book Club with Justice Amy Coney Barrett, Sunday at 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
We want to welcome to our table Kate Anderson Browers.
She's the author of The Residence Inside the Private World of the White House.
Kate Anderson Brower, let's begin with some images that we have seen, some satellite images of the renovations at the White House.
I want to show our viewers and what they can see on their screen right now on the right is the East Wing intact.
And then on the left, you can see the demolition of the East Wing taking place over the past few days at the White House.
Let's begin as they continue to look at these images with the history of the East Wing.
How did it come about?
unidentified
Well, it was built by Teddy Roosevelt as an entry, a formal entry for the public to come into the White House.
And that's where people come in for public tours.
And then FDR, another Roosevelt, expanded it in 1942.
And it was during World War II that it was really used as a cover for the presidential emergency bunker.
That's a place where presidents can go in case of a terrorist attack.
We know that President George W. Bush went there during 9-11.
And so the fact that the East Wing is known as the First Lady's office is, yes, it is, but it's also the Social Secretary's office.
It's where the calligraphers go.
There is a movie theater there.
Jackie Kennedy's garden is there.
I don't believe any longer it looks like it doesn't exist anymore.
And, you know, Thomas Jefferson had it built so that it would balance out this neoclassical, you know, he had the second wing, the East Wing built in general to the East Colonnade to balance out the White House.
That was really the main purpose.
And then Roosevelt's expanded it.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
The colonnade, explain the history of that.
And have people seen the colonnade in action over the years?
unidentified
Well, for state dinners, that's where people come in for photographs before the dinner.
So when you see, you know, tech CEOs and other members of Congress.
Yes, all dressed up black tie, you're seeing them walk through the East Wing.
And anytime there are Christmas parties, that's where members of the press, members of Congress are coming through that place.
But it's also, like I said, it's the public entrance near the Treasury Department.
And a lot of people will recognize it having come to the White House before.
So it's not just the First Lady's office, although that, in my view, as someone who studies First Ladies, is important enough.
Why?
Because the president's spouse has been, I think, devalued over the years.
A position is impossible.
You are, you know, you have to meet endless expectations and lots of criticism.
You see someone like Hillary Clinton, she had her office in the West Wing, and that was a huge problem for her.
People did not want that.
The first First Lady to use the East Wing was Rosalind Carter in 1977.
And I think that she professionalized that role.
She went there every day.
And it's a way for the First Lady to feel active.
This is an unpaid position.
Nothing in the Constitution describes what they're supposed to do, right?
So by literally taking a wrecking ball to the East Wing, it diminishes the role of the First Lady.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
Kate Anderson Brower joining us this morning.
We told you she's the author of The Residence Inside the Private World of the White House.
She is also the author of First Women, The Grace and Power of America's Modern First Ladies.
What impact did Jackie Kennedy have on the East Wing?
unidentified
Oh, enormous.
I mean, well, she was the one who came up with the entire White House renovation.
So she started the White House Historical Association.
And she went to this, there's a really interesting building in suburban Maryland where all of these historic pieces are kept from presidents throughout the years.
And she actually culled through them and brought back important pieces.
She was aghast at how run down the White House was.
It's the people's house.
She wanted to open it up to people.
And that's why when she did the White House tour, it was so incredible to have that televised for the American public to get a chance to see inside the White House for the first time.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
You mentioned renovations over the years under different presidents.
Were those renovations controversial?
unidentified
Yes.
Not quite like this, but the Harry Truman renovation was the last major renovation.
So late 1940s, early 50s, and the Trumans had to leave the White House and live in Blair House for those years.
And the White House was completely gutted.
I mean, it's incredible to see those images, to see what they did to rebuild it.
But that's because it was structurally not sound.
This is something that didn't have to happen at this moment in this way.
And I think that's the thing that people are concerned about, just the speed at which it happens.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
Well, let's talk about this moment and show from the New York Times this morning these renderings.
This is the White House as it stood, right there on your screen.
And you can see the East Wing on the right, the visitor's office demolished.
The East Wing housed the offices of the First Lady and her staff, as we noted.
Now let's take a look at the second rendering from the New York Times, what Trump envisions.
And you can see there on your screen, North Portico and a ballroom added to the East Wing.
Talk about the footprint here that the president is building.
unidentified
Well, it's going to be twice the size of the house now.
It's not going to be proportional to the White House at all.
As you see, the East Wing is going to be so much larger than the West Wing because of this ballroom.
And look, there are a lot of people, and I've spoken with many people who worked for First Ladies over the years, many people who worked in the residence staff who said, and social secretaries, who said they did need an entertaining space, that having these parties on the South Lawn was not convenient in a tent when the weather was bad.
But they were not, to my understanding, envisioning something quite like this.
And a lot of people I've talked to are in mourning about this, who have worked in the East Wing because this was their home.
And it's shocking to see it not literally not exist anymore.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
Let's listen to the White House Press Secretary Caroline Lovitt.
She held a briefing yesterday and she drew on history to defend the current ballroom project.
karoline leavitt ▲ ● ▼
There have been many presidents in the past who have made their mark on this beautiful White House complex.
This briefing room, as you all know, was not once a briefing room.
It was a swimming pool.
There have been presidents who have completely torn down the executive mansion.
If you look at what President Truman did, some of the photos of the construction project that took place in those years, I think sitting here today, we're all grateful for those efforts and the modifications that happened at that time.
And again, in due time, the East Wing is going to be more beautiful and modern than ever before.
And in addition, there will be a big, beautiful ballroom that can hold big parties and state visits for generations to come.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
The White House Press Secretary during the briefing yesterday, Kate Anderson-Brower, you said it's the way that this is being done is why it appears or is perceived as more controversial.
Explain.
unidentified
Well, we know that historic preservation organizations have sent letters to the Capitol Planning Commission in charge of this and said, and to the National Park Service and said, please wait until there is a public discussion about these plans.
And I think that the fact that this is done with such speed and so suddenly and in such a hugely drastic way.
I mean, Trump is a real estate construction guy at his heart, right?
And by doing this this way, it's kind of like, you know, ask permission, ask forgiveness, not permission.
And that's what he's done.
It's too late.
Everything else he's done can be undone.
The Oval Office gilding, that can be undone by the White House Operations Department in an hour.
The rose garden, the concrete can be, you know, taken up and resoted.
This will not be undone.
And he's leaving his mark on the White House because he wants people to know hundreds of years from now that he was there.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
We'll go to Joe in Evans, West Virginia, Democratic Caller.
You're up first in this conversation.
Good morning.
unidentified
I was just going to, well, thanks everybody, but.
I was just going to say and asked a question about the procedures that had came before on the renovations before like people talking about Obama's basketball court and those kind of things.
And I'd just like to.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, Joe, so procedures.
I think what he means by that, is there, you know, some sort of procedure or protocol when a president makes renovations to the White House.
unidentified
It's shocking, but there really isn't.
A lot of this is custom.
It's not law.
It's, you know, most presidents, they have a deep understanding that they are temporary residents of the White House.
It's not their home.
So they do things very incrementally.
And remember, President Obama got all that blowback for making the tennis court into a basketball court.
And that is such a small, small thing compared to what we're seeing now.
So, I mean, this, the Truman balcony was very controversial at the time.
And I would say that that's a beloved part of the White House today.
So there is a chance that hundreds of years from now, people could look back on this and say it was a wonderful addition.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
Well, people point to President Obama's term when he had to put a tent out back in order to house enough guests for a state dinner that he was hosting because indoors there's not enough room.
unidentified
That's true.
And I covered some of those state dinners as a reporter for Bloomberg News at the time.
And those were gorgeous, gorgeous affairs.
I mean, when people say they were like backyard barbecue tents, it was not that the case at all.
But yes, this will be much more convenient given the weather.
And also presidents, you know, they want to show off the White House to foreign leaders.
And the White House is a modest house compared to European palaces.
That's what George Washington wanted.
It wasn't a president.
I mean, it wasn't a king.
It was a president.
And so it was meant to be restrained.
And I think that that is what is surprising about this ballroom.
There is nothing restrained about it.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
The Washington Post notes this morning that Caroline Levitt introduced, when she introduced the project to the public in July, she said the wing would be modernized, not demolished.
Trump said then that it would cost about $200 million and hold 650 guests, estimates that have increased to 300 million in nearly 1,000, respectively.
Kenneth, let's hear from you in Virginia, Republican caller.
unidentified
Yes, good morning.
I just would like to know, are we really all that surprised?
You know, this coming from a man who doesn't ask permission to touch a woman's senatalia before he does.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
Matthew in Dearborn, Michigan, Democratic caller.
Matthew, you're next.
unidentified
Hi, how you doing?
What I don't like about it, he's using the general contractor's non-union labor.
That and the volvo that were tearing it down, they're all built overseas.
And he's the America first president.
He never seems to think about America first.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
All right, Matthew.
Santiago in Oklahoma, Republican, let's hear from you.
unidentified
Yes, my name is Santiago.
My question is, why not doesn't the president hire two secret service agents to get Navy SEALs to build him his residential extension of the White House?
That would be inexpensive, and that way top security would be at demand.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
All right.
Well, let's talk about the cost of these renovations.
More reporting from the Washington Post this morning.
Trump told reporters Thursday that private donors had given about $350 million for the project and that he had personally contributed millions of dollars.
Do we know that to be the case?
How do where would the checks be?
How could Americans view that?
unidentified
We don't know the amount of money that the president has given or even the amount that all of these companies have given.
We know that major companies like Apple have made donations and there are some ethical questions about why you would make a donation of this size and scope to the president.
And obviously, Curry's favor, and it is not a partisan issue at all.
You have Richard Painter, who worked for George W. Bush, bringing this up, that, you know, there could be a quid pro quo kind of situation here.
It is not.
I think what's interesting about this is that it is not partisan.
This is the love people have, Americans have for the White House.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
From the Washington Post, the White House on Thursday also released a list of donors to the project, which included companies such as Apple, Amazon, Google, and Palantar, and wealthy individuals such as Blackstone CBO Steven Schwartzmann and crypto's investor Tyler and Cameron Winklevoss.
Jeff Bezos owns the Post, they note.
A $22 million chunk came from a settlement Trump reached with Google-owned video site YouTube, ending a lawsuit he brought over the company's 2021 decision to suspend his account in the wake of the January 6, 2021 attacks on the U.S. Capitol.
Felicia in Washington, D.C., Democratic caller, your comment or question?
unidentified
Hello, I listened to some of the Republican college and they were wondering what I did about law of procedure for doing these things.
But the thing about the question really is, does Carolyn Levitt is pressured secretary say that Trump is transparent?
And she said something else about him.
And I'm wondering, does Trump plan to leave the White House in 2029?
And that's the basic question.
Or is he getting ready to find some reason or another or emergency she gave as his reason for staying in the White House?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
All right, Felicia's comments there about these renovations and what do they ultimately mean.
You heard her opinion there.
Kate Anderson Brower, you mentioned the bunker that's been under the East Wing that was built.
And was that controversial?
And what does it do exactly?
Have Americans ever seen this bunker?
unidentified
It's a very interesting space.
I mean, President Trump went there during the George Floyd protests.
And like I said, George W. Bush was there during 9-11.
So we've seen images.
It is a very top secret.
It is a secure bunker in case of an attack.
FDR had it built during World War II.
And, you know, I'm actually unclear as to whether it exists now.
It's underground, so I believe that it does.
And the military could be working on revamping it.
But I think that the larger question I have as someone who looks at First Ladies is where is her staff going to work?
We know that some of them now are actually working in the ground floor, in the China room, in these historic rooms of the White House, main residence.
If they're eventually going to go to the Eisenhower Executive Office building, that's taking them out of the seat of power.
And I know having covered the White House, they're already in, they call it Siberia, right?
They're already removed from the West Wing.
Everything in the White House is about proximity to the Oval Office.
So if you're in the East Wing, at least you're on the White House, you know, general complex.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
What powers do the First Ladies have and should they have power when Americans are voting for the president?
unidentified
That's a wonderful question.
And I think people are debating it all the time.
I think that they have tremendous influence culturally.
And from Eleanor Roosevelt on, we've seen that they can be a real emissary for their husbands, going out and talking to people around the world.
And what Dr. Biden did was really interesting, working outside of the White House for the first time.
She's the first First Lady to do that.
So I think the question is whether they can work outside, whether they should be allowed to work outside of the White House.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
Tom in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, Republican.
Hi, Tom.
Hey, Tom, you have to mute your television, all right?
You ready to go?
All right.
Sorry, maybe you can call back in, Tom.
Will Anderson, South Carolina, Independent.
unidentified
Yeah, I'm livid.
I'm a preservationist myself and have restored an old house over the last 20 years.
And this power mad vandal destroying our social safety net, Bill of Rights, and now the White House is just too much.
I'm hoping and praying this is the straw that breaks the camel's back and the people and Republican Party grows a pair and we get rid of this monster.
It's absurd.
And I'm just, I'm deeply saddened by this tragedy.
But thank you all for covering it.
And hope you all have a great rest of the day.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
All right, well.
Kate Anderson Brower.
unidentified
I think he's articulating what a lot of people feel.
I mean, when George Washington and his Secretary of State at the time, Thomas Jefferson, were looking at plans for the White House, Pierre L'Enfant, the French architect who designed Washington, D.C., submitted a plan for a presidential palace.
And they absolutely said, no, this is not a palace.
This is the people's house.
This is the president's house, and you will not live there forever.
And so they rejected the plan, and they ended up with something that was five times smaller than what L'Anfont envisioned.
And I think that there's a neoclassical kind of restrained design to the White House.
And it's just shocking to me that this happened because when I talk to White House curators, every single piece of furniture on the state floor is accounted for.
They love this house.
The people on the resident staff, about 100 of them from carpenters to housekeepers, calligraphers, this house is sacred to them as it is to the American people.
So it's stunning to see this.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
Jackson, Maryland, Democratic caller.
Hi, Jack.
unidentified
Hey, good morning, ladies.
I just want to make the point that what Trump has done to the East Wing is indicative of how he feels about government overall.
I mean, if you think about how he's conducted himself in his second term, he's blown through all of the customs, norms, and institutions that's really sustained our country for the last hundred years.
So this isn't a surprise.
It's not a surprise at how he's gone about it.
He blatantly lied in saying it was just going to be a modest modification to the East Wing.
It won't be a complete demolition.
And then literally, within a week, the entire East Wing was gone.
It was a blatant lie.
The cost has inflated to $300 million.
And again, it's indicative of how Trump feels about government overall.
And symbolically, when this monstrosity is completed, it's going to look awful.
I think your guest made the point that it's going to be twice the size of the White House itself.
There won't be any balance.
So aesthetically, it's just going to look odd and awkward.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
We'll take that point again.
Kate Anderson Brower, you talked about the symmetry or luck thereof.
Here's the rendering again from the New York Times of what the president envisions.
unidentified
Yeah, I mean, when Thomas Jefferson built the East Colonnade, which was controversial at the time, it was all, he didn't build the East Wing, he built the colonnade.
It was all about symmetry.
And now you see it will certainly not be symmetrical.
The White House, the executive mansion itself, which is where the president lives, is 55,000 square feet.
So, and then you have the West Wing, which is a separate square footage.
But so we are talking right now about adding 90,000 square feet.
So it'll be much larger, almost twice as big as the White House residence, which is the state floor, which is the East Room, the state dining room, all those public spaces.
And I am not an architect, but you can clearly see that this is not going to be symmetrical anymore.
And I think that people have every right to voice their concern.
I mean, it really is the people's house.
And again, I don't think that this is a partisan issue in any way.
And it's a shame that it has become that way.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼
Margaret's in Florida, Republican.
Hi, Margaret.
unidentified
Hi.
I am a Republican calling on the Republican line.
I was one.
The house gaveling out after a brief session on this day 24.
We leave this here to take you to a brief session in the house with no boats scheduled this week.
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