CSPAN - Washington Journal 10/21/2025

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Oct. 21, 2025 07:00-10:01 - CSPAN

03:00:48

Washington Journal 10/21/2025

Participants

Main

david mcintosh

27:18

michael kirk

14:31

pedro echevarria

cspan 39:25

Appearances

chuck schumer

sen/d 02:34

donald j trump

admin 00:47

hakeem jeffries

rep/d 01:31

john thune

sen/r 01:58

justice amy coney barrett

scotus 00:38

mike johnson

rep/r 02:37

olha stefanishyna

ukr 01:23

robert gaylon ross

00:52

Clips

brian t kennedy

00:03

calley means

00:25

david rubenstein

00:08

del bigtree

00:25

justice neil gorsuch

scotus 00:15

peter navarro

admin 00:01

ray mcgovern

00:24

Callers

adam in fort worth

callers 00:12

alex in northern virginia

callers 00:10

john in unknown

callers 00:05

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Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Democracy.
		Coming up on C-SPAN's Washington Journal, we'll talk about the government shutdown, President Trump's economic policies, and the upcoming November elections with the Club for Growth's David McIntosh and documentary writer and producer Michael Weiser discusses the recent PBS frontline film, The Rise of RFK Jr.
		Washington Journal starts now.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		This is the Washington Journal for October the 21st.
		On this 21st day of the government shutdown, the Senate failed for the 11th time to pass a short-term funding bill to reopen the government.
		Senate Majority Leader Thun says he'll try to pass legislation this week that would pay federal employees and military service members who have continued to work through the shutdown.
		And House members are expected to remain home this week as Republican leaders attempt to pressure the Senate to reopen the government.
		You can talk about the various tangents of the ongoing government shutdown on the following lines this morning.
		Republicans 202-748-8001.
		Democrats 202-748-8000.
		And Independents 202-748-8002.
		If you wish to, and if you're a federal employee and you want to give your input there, 202748-8003 is how you do that.
		You can also post on our various social media sites on Facebook.
		It's facebook.com slash C-SPAN.
		On X, it's at C-SPANWJ.
		And you can text us too, 202-748-8003.
		Senate leaders are expected to head to the White House later on this afternoon for a lunch at the Rose Garden, in part over solidarity on the shutdown between those Senate leaders and the Republicans.
		It's similar to a topic on the front page of Politico.
		You can find, if you get the paper version, and not if you don't, you can find this online as well, about the White House and the Republicans remaining aligned during this shutdown, saying that the White House feels as confident about the shutdown in week three as it was on day one, in part because congressional Republicans have, for the most part, remained largely in line.
		Quote, there's no discussions at all in the rank and file level and what is there, even for Republicans, to be skittish about, said a Senate Republican aide granted anonymity to discuss the dynamics between the White House and Congress.
		And this story also saying that there are confidence and cohesion from Republicans on both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue and similar confidence among Democrats augurs no quick end to what is approaching to be one of the longest shutdowns in history.
		That's the front page of Politico there.
		You can find it online.
		As we told you earlier, Chad Pergram from Fox News reporting early this morning, following up from a story that was yesterday about Senate Republican leaders heading to the White House today to have lunch with the president to talk about issues of the shutdown.
		We know that at 10 o'clock today, the House Speaker, Mike Johnson, will hold a press conference at 10 o'clock.
		You can see that on our main channel, C-SPAN, right after this program.
		But you can comment on this ongoing federal shutdown, what you think about it.
		Again, 202748-8001 for Republicans, 202748-8000 for Democrats, and Independents, 202748-8002.
		If you are a federal worker, 202-748-8003 is how you can give your comments there as well.
		And you can use that same number to text us your thoughts too.
		Louie on our Democrats line, he's from Illinois.
		On this 21st day of the shutdown, Louie, go ahead.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I've been watching C-SPAN every morning since the shutdown.
		I've come to the conclusion that people don't understand that spending for health care is not wasting money.
		Most of that money gets put back into our economy and starts circulating and recirculating for decades.
		So, for example, we're giving money to a hospital.
		They employ nurses.
		They employ doctors.
		They employ janitors.
		Those people spend money on rent.
		They spend their money on grocery bills, on gasoline.
		That becomes part of our economy.
		So I say, let's get this government working.
		Give us health care.
		And let's stop all this arguing.
		It leads to nowhere.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		The Senate making several attempts, the 11th we told you about, and trying to pass that short-term funding bill to get the government open to work on the larger appropriations bills.
		It was yesterday that the Senate Majority Leader, according to the Hill newspaper, saying, John Thune saying on Monday, saying that the shutdown has dragged on for so long that it's time to start thinking about bringing the Republican-controlled House back to Washington to pass a new stopgap funding bill.
		The House last voted on September the 19th when it passed H.R. 5371, a clean continuing resolution funding the government until November the 21st and sent the bill to the Senate.
		Since then, the Senate majority leader has brought the measure to the Senate floor 10 times.
		Democrats blocked it 10 times.
		On Monday, acknowledged the House may need to come back soon to pass a new government funding stopgap since the November 21st end date of the pending continuing resolution is now a month away.
		Asked by a reporter whether it's time to start thinking about the House coming back and extending it, the funding period, Thune replied affirmatively.
		Again, the House not expected to come back this week for any type of votes in an effort to get the Senate to do its work on the shutdown.
		Let's hear from Stewart.
		Stewart's in Florida, Independent Line.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello, Pedro.
		The one guy that was talking about the need for health care.
		First of all, you guys at C-SPAN, I didn't know that Reagan was the one that created the hospital, whatever that was, where when he gave amnesty to the illegals and they flooded the border, and Reagan was the one that started this thing where hospitals could not refuse illegal immigrants from getting health care in hospitals.
		Well, maybe that's why they started charging $1,000 for a pair of aspirin.
		And then Trump has never talked about, never talked about the fraud and waste in the socialist insurance welfare system that is not regulated.
		I mean, they have waste.
		Every billing, medical billing professional knows about the fraud, waste, and abuse in the medical system and never even talk about the Pentagon either, the waste, fraud, and abuse.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Let's circle this back to the shutdown.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		What's the point you're trying to make there?
unidentified		The point is, there's no difference between these parties.
		They got their propaganda that they promote, but they never go to C-SPAN and look at voting records and have more power, more might in what they speak.
		There's nobody speaking except for independents with common sense, meaning they go to voting records and see, like Eisenhower said, there's not a dime's difference between these two parties.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's Stewart there in Florida.
		John is up next, also on our line for independence.
		He's from New York on day 21 of the federal government shutdown.
		John in New York, hello.
unidentified		Yeah, that political article that you read, political seems to lean very far to the left because they said that the Republican Party, they're in line with Donald Trump and they're holding tough.
		Now, let me tell you something, and you know darn well, and your editors do know also, that there was a bipartisan bill passed through the House, and it was sent to the Senate.
		The Senate was also voted on, and it was bipartisan met three or four Democrats voted for the bill, but they only need three.
		But you don't ever say that the Democrats are holding tight with Schumer.
		So why do you make the Republicans' party sound so sinister?
		I'm telling you, you need your editors and everything you want to do.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Sticking to the subject at hand, whether Republicans or Democrats, as far as the shutdown is concerned, then are both parties aligned in your mind then?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you're saying?
unidentified		Nonpartisan information to the American people so they can make up some, both parties can decide.
		And I'm just saying, how can you decide on a story and sticking up for them?
		So what are you going to read?
		The New York Times articles now, the Washington Post articles now.
		You won't have one conservative protection there.
		And I'm an independent, and I listen to this station because I want to hear what the Democrats think.
		I want to hear what the Republicans think.
		I want to hear what your guests think.
		Okay.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we got you, John.
		And you can hear what the Senate Majority Leader thinks.
		John Thune, speaking from the halls of the Senate, on the floor of the Senate yesterday, talking about the current status of the shutdown, particularly when it comes to the Democratic approach on the Affordable Care Act and enhanced credits there.
		Here's the Senate leader from yesterday.
john thune ▲ ● ▼		You have to give the Democrats credit for one thing, and that's a healthy dose of gall.
john thune ▲ ● ▼		Both the House and Senate Democrat leaders were out last week and claiming that they can't fund the government until, get this, we solve the, quote, Republican health care crisis, end quote.
unidentified		That's right.
unidentified		The Republican health care crisis.
john thune ▲ ● ▼		It is truly amazing how a program Democrats created and tax credits that they chose to sunset have now become the Republicans crisis.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Republicans, in fact, never had anything to do with it.
unidentified		Democrats created Obamacare alone.
john thune ▲ ● ▼		They implemented the enhanced tax credits alone.
unidentified		And they chose a sunset date for those tax credits alone.
john thune ▲ ● ▼		Democrats are solely, solely responsible for the Obamacare tax credit cliff.
john thune ▲ ● ▼		And yet they're trying to pin this disaster on Republicans while at the very same time they're asking Republicans to bail them out.
unidentified		It's really kind of ironic, Mr. President.
john thune ▲ ● ▼		Democrats may not win a lot of points for truthfulness, but you have to give them credit for gall.
		Mr. President, while Democrats may have created this health care situation, I have made it clear from the beginning that Republicans are willing to have a discussion about how to address it.
		In fact, I'm perfectly willing to guarantee Democrats a vote.
		But none of that is going to happen until Democrats reopen the government.
		We're not going to negotiate on anything until Democrats stop holding government funding hostage.
		And if they really want to address their Obamacare mess, they should stop running out the clock on a deal.
		And they're doing all they're doing by that action, Mr. President, is keeping the government shut down and enhancing, enhancing, believe it or not, the chances this situation doesn't get fixed because the clock is running.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Punch Bowl follows up with the Senate Majority Leader telling reporters yesterday, according to their Punch Bowl newsletter this morning, that Congress may have no choice but to pass a one-year CR after the government opens up.
		That would be a massive blow to appropriators in all Republican Washington.
		It says, regardless of what happens with the enhanced Obamacare premium subsidies at the heart of the record-breaking funding clash, health care is already paying a huge role in the 2026 Senate landscape, and it's only going to get larger across Senate battleground states.
		Soaring health care costs on top of rising prices for food, housing, and electricity are hammering voters and boosting Democratic hopes that they can cut into the GOP majority.
		That's from Punch Bowl News this morning, asking your opinion on this ongoing shutdown.
		This is Christina joining us, Democrats line in Illinois.
unidentified		Hello.
		Good morning.
		You know, I've always was told, I don't know if it was social studies class, economics or civics, that a good deal, an agreement, makes neither side gets everything they want.
		Now, what I fear with this shutdown is that President Trump is just got free reign.
		There's no one watching over him.
		Let's say with the missiles that are firing at so-called Venezuelan drug runners.
		I mean, to me, that's terrorism.
		We have not declared war.
		Congress is not there to declare war or call them, name them officially terrorists.
		I think that makes us the terrorists.
		And I just wish they'd get all this straightened back up.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Well, when it comes to the deal, would you advise Democrats to hold off on requiring these health care portions for a later discussion if they can reopen the government?
unidentified		I like their stick-to-ideness, stick-to-ideness, but I mean, everybody's got to give a little bit, you know, give a little bit to make an arrangement, to make an agreement.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		That's what I feel about that.
unidentified		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Christina in Illinois.
		Let's go to Idaho.
		This is on our independent line.
		We will hear from Earl.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I just thought I'd mention the current government shutdown was brought on by our past administration because they allowed illegal immigration to come into the country and escalate the problems we've got today.
		That's the way I'm looking at it.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Well, how are they resolving it then?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		If this is, in your opinion, a past problem, how should they resolve it now?
unidentified		Well, if we don't have a country that sticks together with the laws that are on the current books and have been, then we've got a problem with both administrations.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Well, what does that mean regarding this shutdown specifically?
unidentified		Like I said in the beginning, the current shutdown today was brought on by the past administration because they didn't govern this country by the laws that were on the bucks.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Ernestine in North Carolina, Democrats line.
unidentified		Hello.
		Good morning.
		What I wanted to say was the shutdown was y'all President Trump.
		He the one did the shutdown, not Democrats.
		Now here he is, everybody out of work, but he finna get his ballroom started.
		That's what they need to contest against.
		He should not be allowed to do anything for himself and got everybody else in the whole world distress.
		We are in distress for unnecessary reasons.
		He hate Obama.
		And because he hate Obama, until he gets his way, these are the things that he pours on people.
		Shut down the government.
		Don't shut down the government.
		Look how important the government is to us.
		Airplanes, food, money, everything that we get is depend on the government.
		Leave government alone.
		He needs to shut himself down because he has started so much trouble.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		But what would you say about Republicans saying it's the Democrats because they put these health care requirements on reopening the government?
unidentified		They didn't shut it down.
		Trump shut the government down.
		Trump doesn't shut the government down 40 times.
		40.
		Each time he cannot have his way, that's what he does.
		Tell him to find something else to shut down because he doesn't shut down everything else.
		I get $34 a month in food stamps.
		I've been to Obamacare before, and Obamacare helped me out.
		It's just like any other insurance.
		It goes by your income.
		When I got on Medicare, I came off of Obama because they put you off of Obama.
		You don't stay on it once you get on Medicare.
		You get on Medicare on Medicare, you no longer allowed.
		Obamacare is for people that have no income, no income.
		If your income is higher than what they anticipate, you will not be on Obamacare.
		I have been on it before, and I know it goes by your income.
		So people that's saying that it's doing just like Blue Cross, Blue Shio, Cigna is doing just like any other insurance, going by your income.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		If you don't have anything, that's Ernestine in North Carolina.
		James is up next.
		He's in D.C., Independent Line.
unidentified		Go ahead.
		Yeah, how you doing, man?
		I just wanted to say, like, with this shutdown thing, Democrats definitely need to stick with it.
		Because if they do give in, what's going to happen is whatever deal they make, they're going to reneg on it like they reneged on everything else.
		It's no future insight if they do give in.
		So they might as well hold off to make sure that they get the tax breaks extended for the Affordable Care Act.
		So with the shutdown, shouldn't they be not taking taxes right now?
		I mean, like, seriously, they ain't there to work.
		So at the end of the day, they're still collecting tax money and building ballrooms and giving 20 billion to other countries.
		So they got to put us first.
		We need to become first.
		That's all I got to say.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		From Alvina in Maine, Republican line, you're next.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		How are you doing?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Fine, thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		All right.
		You know, this whole federal shutdown, I agree with the Democrats.
		You know, I use the Obamacare.
		The Obamacare is, you know, very helpful to me in a lot of ways.
		I'm a disabled woman.
		I'm also on Section 8.
		You know, Donald Trump, he sits back and says he wants to get rid of the Fair Housing Act, a federal Section 8 program, which I am on.
		I currently have, and I waited 10 years to get.
		You know, I'm sorry to say, but this is probably the worst president we have ever had in history.
		He has.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Well, when it comes to the shutdown, why as a Republican, you're aligning with the Democrats on this one as far as keeping the government shut down?
unidentified		Well, because the Democrats are the ones that are trying to support the health care, the affordable housing, groceries, and things like that.
		You don't hear the Republicans getting on their hell.
		All you do is hear Donald Trump talking about getting rid of all the federal programs like the SNAP benefits.
		And he's passed a bill for the SNAP program, trying to abolish it and get rid of it.
		You also hear him saying that he wants to get rid of the Section 8 program, which houses millions of poor people.
		Okay.
		You know, yes, you know, when Biden went and allowed all these eagle immigrants to come into our country, yes, it represented a real serious issue with, you know, providing them with food stamps and health care and things like that.
		But, you know, when he got in office, it seems one, he's trying to take away our freedom of speech.
		Anytime anybody speaks out against him, he threatens them, bullies them into doing what he wants them to do.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		That's Alvina there in Maine.
		Again, the federal shutdown, if you want to comment, 202-748-8001 for Republicans, 202748-8000 for Democrats, and Independents 202-748-8002.
		Federal workers, you can call in at 202-748-8003.
		You can use that same line, too, if you want to text us your thoughts this morning.
		Speaking of Democrats, the Senate Minority Leader on the floor yesterday talking about the status of the shutdown, particularly the expiring Affordable Act, Care Act, Exhanced Tax Credits.
		These comments were made on Monday.
chuck schumer ▲ ● ▼		Health insurance prices under the ACA are now available in about a dozen states, and Americans in those states are already seeing with their own eyes the horrifying truth what we've been warning about for months, that multiple millions of people are going to pay tens of thousands of dollars more for health care.
		So vital to Americans.
		When you are in a family and you know you can't provide health care for them or much reduced health care, and you look at your spouse, you look at your kids, you say, what am I going to do if they get sick?
		What a frightening experience for people that Republicans are putting America through.
		All because they wanted to cut all these, cut all this health care, cut Medicaid and cut so much else in health care to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy.
		It's just perverse.
		It's inside out.
		It's upside down.
		And let's be clear about who will get hurt if these tax credits expire.
		Republicans have been lying about that too.
		If the ACA premium tax credits expire, the majority of people who will pay more out of pocket are working and middle-class families.
		In fact, the majority of people who benefit from the expiring tax credits live in Republican districts.
		The state of Louisiana, home of Speaker Johnson, is one of the states about to suffer most.
		I read an article last week from CNBC.
		It said, the headline, ACA enhanced subsidy lapse could hit early retirees hardest.
		Middle-class couples in their 50s and early 60s who are too young to qualify for Medicare face the largest dollar increase in premium payments.
		One Idaho couple interviewed by CNBC will see their premiums spike not by 50%, not by 100%, by 300%.
		$15,000 more a year just to have health insurance.
		That's what financial ruin looks like.
		In fact, if these tax credits expire, older Americans could end up spending 30% of their income just on health care premiums.
		Can you imagine?
		What kind of country do we live in?
		What kind of party is this Republican Party that is unwilling to solve this problem, which is staring Americans in the face, frightening Americans from one end of the country to the other?
		And yet Republicans, what are they doing about it?
		Nothing.
		They're on vacation.
		It's unacceptable and morally repugnant.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Again, the comments on the shutdown you can always find on our website at c-span.org and our app at C-SPANNOW, taking your comments as well during this time.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		David in Oklahoma, Democrats line, hello.
unidentified		Hi, how are you doing?
		I would like to comment on the president, he seems to be caught in the past so much.
		And I can't understand why does he have to go back and mention other people as if he's jealous of them.
		And I'm from Louisiana, and I could tell you, I just don't understand the speaker.
		He seems like he's lost all his Louisiana morals when it comes to people.
		Maybe he should go back to Louisiana and look at some of the poverty that's going on there because right now he does not represent us in a good way.
		And for what is going on right now, I could tell you it's hurting people.
		Are you looking at how many people that this will hurt as far as trying to kill all these Medicare bills?
		Please, I mean, look at it.
		He doesn't have anything to worry about because he's trying to set himself up right now for the future.
		And if he's not there, his sons are there.
		So, I mean, this is just horrid.
		And every time he mentions Obama, Biden, every time, I mean, please get with reality.
		You know, the things that he does that's so bad, they seem to disappear, dissolve, or someone doesn't want to answer.
		And guess what?
		Other people have to answer for it.
		And the people that are answering for it are actually the people right now, a lot of them that are unemployed.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Audrey in Alabama, Republican line.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Last time I checked, the Constitution said we would provide for the defense of the United States of America.
		And me being a war veteran and my son being on active duty, that was a big scare about getting paid October 1st.
		But now the House has a bill, H.R. 5401.
		It has 194 co-sponsors so far, which by my math says if 24 more people sign on, they can get that passed.
		And the Senate has 3002, which is the exact same bill that has 20 sponsors and co-sponsors.
		Now, I would prefer the NDAA to be passed.
		Now, the Politico put out, oh, that the Democrats voted against the NDAA.
		No, they did not.
		They voted against the House version of the NDAA.
		The Senate version, bipartisan, of the NDAA, was passed.
		I'm sorry, I'm nervous.
		On October 9th.
		Now, They need to pay our military.
		And as everybody knows, the USDA letter went out October 10th saying that all 50 states, nobody was getting SNAP benefits if they don't open this government.
		And I have a message for the Democrats.
		Now, on this one big, beautiful bill and these tax cuts, if you didn't like tax cuts in 2017, when y'all was in charge of the House and the Senate and Biden was president, you could have rescinded that, repealed it, or done whatever.
		I'm really tired.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Audrey, you're breaking in and out.
		So thanks for your thoughts.
		We'll leave it there.
		Some of you texting us this morning.
		Michael in Florida, the Democrats insistence on forcing a government shutdown effectively creates the situation of which Democrats are protesting.
		They have created King Trump.
		Thank you.
		And then this is a viewer in Nebraska.
		This is Scott saying, has the president delivered on the promise during his first turn to pass the best health care plan ever?
		There would not be a government shutdown today.
		Again, weave those thoughts in.
		When it comes to your thoughts on the government shutdown, Reuters taking its own polling in the last couple of days.
		It showed that in that six-day poll, which closed yesterday, it showed the president's approval rating at 42%.
		That's up two percentage points from earlier in the month within the poll's two-point margin of error.
		The president's rating has held between 40 and 44 percent since early April.
		The poll also found that 50 percent of respondents see the Republican congressional leadership as deserving the most blame for the shutdown, while 43 percent see the top congressional Democrats as the main culprit.
		The third longest government shutdown in U.S. history entered its 21st day on Tuesday.
		Ben is in Minnesota.
		Independent line.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Thank you for having me on.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		You're on.
unidentified		Go ahead.
		So if all America would take a look at themselves inside by faith, not based on your higher power, but just within your heart, realize you need to make the right choice.
		So everybody did.
		Donald Trump's in office, and here we sit.
		We can focus on things from the past, decisions made in the past, and blame one another for things that happened during Joe Biden's election, things that happened during Obama's election, blah, blah, blah.
		The issues at hand are current.
		The finger pointing needs to stop.
		This has gotten to the point in this country where we are so far right, so far left.
		This is to the detrimental point of collapse.
		People, pay attention to what's really at hand.
		Care about one another, not just your pocketbooks, but one another.
		Make this work.
		Stop blaming each party for all the problems, regardless of what Schumer, regardless of what Johnson are saying.
		Democrats did this, Republicans did that.
		If there is to be a common ground, it needs to be found and it needs to be found soon.
		But the blaming has to stop and it has to stop at the top.
		Our president needs to be the leader to cut this divide in half, hold back on his demoralizing rhetoric, and give us forward-moving direction, understanding there are two parties.
		They have to work together, and we can't make America just a Republican state.
		Period.
		Okay.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Ben there in Minnesota.
		This is Jonathan in Florida, Democrats line.
		Last call.
unidentified		Yes, I agree a lot with what this caller, that caller just said.
		We are a very divided country, and with this government shutdown, I really believe that Trump loves this.
		He loves when there's divisiveness.
		He thrives on it.
		It's not good.
		And if you're a Republican or a Democrat, why is it that every, it's like we are in our own silos.
		You hear a Republican call in and everything that they can't give the Democrats any compliment at all or any, and vice versa.
		As far as the government shutdown with the enhanced subsidies, let's just put it this way.
brian t kennedy ▲ ● ▼		The Republicans never wanted Obamacare to succeed.
unidentified		They've tried to repeal it a million times.
		Before Obamacare, we used to have preexisting conditions.
		You would get denied for having diabetes in health insurance.
		They were problems, man.
		It wasn't great.
		It was terrible.
		They have tried to repeal it so many times.
		The funding for the marketplace has been going down.
		The enrollment periods have been decreased.
		They've done everything possible to kill it.
		But yet they have no replacement.
		One thing I heard yesterday on C-SPAN, I heard that they were coming up with, oh, well, there's short-term plans.
		That's a possibility.
		I've seen short-term plans.
		Number one, there's no protection on preexisting health conditions.
		They put limits on what they'll cover, and they don't cover annual physical exams.
		They are very limited plans.
		If that's the Republican solution, then it's not a solution.
		And I'll close with this.
		Why can't the Republicans admit that the Democrats on this side, okay, and fine, Obamacare has flaws.
		We all know that.
		But there's no alternative right now.
		Right now, you have to extend the subsidies and then work on, extend it for a year and then work on health care.
		Put your heads together and come up with a solution.
		You need to do it because in a month and a half, these people are going to be suffering with these prices and they're going to go uninsured because they won't be able to afford it.
		Thank you, Pedro.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Jonathan in Florida, finishing off this round, specifically looking at the government shutdown.
		You can continue on with your thoughts on the shutdown or other matters of politics for Open Forum until 8 o'clock.
		And if you want to do that specifically as part of Open Forum, Republicans, 2027 8-8001.
		Democrats, 202-748-8000.
		And Independents, 202-748-8002.
		If you want to comment on matters of politics, you can comment on the government shutdown.
		You can comment on renovation work going on at the White House.
		This was reported by The Hill.
		Sorry that was in several outlets yesterday saying it was Demolition Cruise starting the process of tearing down part of the White House East Wing Monday to begin construction on the president's planned ballroom.
		Quote, it just started today, so that's good luck.
		The president said during an event in the East Room hosting the Louisiana State University and LSU Shreveport National Championship baseball teams.
		He noted that there'll be a knockout panel behind the deliver where he delivered the remarks where the East Room is.
		And this also says that video and pictures of the demolition surfaced Monday.
		The Washington Post reported members of the Secret Service and others watched the demolition from the steps of the Treasury Department.
		The activity could reportedly be heard from the White House campus.
		There's some video of the demolition provided by Getty Images from yesterday.
		You can look at that, comment on it if you wish during this open forum.
		Let's start with Van Van in Ohio, Independent Line.
		You're next.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		You're on.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Does anybody know what the longest shutdown of the government occurred and who caused it?
		It was 2018, the end of 2018, and it was caused by Donald Trump when he shut down the government because he wanted a border wall.
ray mcgovern ▲ ● ▼		Now, Donald Trump's going to supersede possibly his old record, and it's all his fault because it was this one big, beautiful bill that he wanted to bring about to enhance the wealthy of the country and hurt the everyday working Americans and the people that need the health care coverage.
unidentified		He's going to take it away.
		I would just like to say that he's the worst president in history.
		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		That shut down back in 2018 in the first Trump administration, lasting 35 days, according to history.house.gov, providing us a listing of previous government shutdowns ranging from three days in the 90s under President Bush, George H.W. Bush, and going forward from Presidents Clinton, Obama, and President Trump in the first administration.
		Evelyn in Maryland, in Baltimore, Maryland, Democrats lying.
		Good morning.
		You're next.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Really, I just wanted to say that I definitely agree with the two gentlemen's comments.
		Definitely that President Trump is the cause of all of this.
		If he could just stand up and give his opinion and let everybody know where he stands, then we can just get along with each other and let him come on.
		You've got to at least have some kind of decision to make.
		And he can stop all of this.
		But definitely, I just wanted to say I definitely agree.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Lisa up next.
		Lisa in Virginia, Republican line.
unidentified		Hi.
		Good morning.
		I just wanted to say that I agree with the Republicans that the Obamacare insurance was not working.
		What Schumer's not telling people is that our premiums went up last year in November.
		Last year, 2024 in November is when the premiums went up.
		So why are they complaining now?
		Why didn't they complain then and fix it when they were in control?
		But they didn't fix it.
		And now they want to complain because it's going to expire.
		It needs to expire because it's been going up and up and up every year.
		And that is the truth about it.
		And they know that immigrant, illegal immigrants, are getting services.
		Call the D.C. Health Line.
		You'll know that they're getting services.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		The Washington Post takes a look at services provided to undocumented people, highlighting this within the story that you can find in today's paper saying that immigrants living in the United States illegally are ineligible for federal health plans, including Medicaid and Medicare, as well as insurance sold through Affordable Care Act marketplaces.
		It's also saying that, but federal money can indirectly help those immigrants by reimbursing hospitals that are required to provide emergency care to all patients and by supporting state Medicaid programs that use their own money to offer coverage to patients without legal status.
		John.
		John in New Hampshire, Independent Line.
unidentified		Hi there.
		How are you doing?
		You know, it's tough for decision makers in the healthcare system getting this free.
		And maybe if they had to go through that, you know, little Joes like us have to do, they would think differently about the whole mess.
		I don't really have much else to say about it, but, you know, I've paid Medicare out of my paychecks for my whole life, and I've got part A.
		So, hey, that's what I think about Medicare.
		I have nothing, and I paid out all these years.
		Think about it, you know, they get it for nothing.
		That's it.
		Have a good day.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Jeff in Indianapolis, Democrats line.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yes, thank you for taking my call.
		As far as overall unity is concerned in this country, we're never going to have it as long as Donald Trump is in office.
		The President of the United States is supposed to try, at least try, to be a unifying figure.
		But if you look at the recent rhetoric coming from the administration and the people in this administration, they're not even making an effort to try to get this country unified.
		They're basically further in the divide.
		If you see what the people are saying, especially people like Stephen Miller, First Secretary Carol Leverett, and Trump himself, all of them come from that university, come from the administration.
		It's totally divisive.
		So there's basically no way we're going to even come close to becoming a unified nation as long as those people are in charge because they have no intention at all of doing anything to try to unify this country.
		And the divide, as long as they stay in power, it's going to get worse.
		And thank you and have a nice day.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Ricky, up next in Colorado, Republican line.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		How are you doing there?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Fine, thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		I just think that the president is destroying our country, and the Republicans are letting immigration attack, you know, what do they call them, illegals or just brown people, but they are hiring these.
unidentified		What are they, thugs?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's go to John.
		John in New Jersey, Independent Line.
		Hi there.
unidentified		Hi.
		Listening to all this over months, I've got an idea I want to try on your listenership, which is to invent a new party called the referees that never puts forward a candidate and basically commits to voting for one side or the other.
		The referees would then demand of the Republican or Democrat candidate to talk about what the downsides of their proposal for new legislation would be.
		That's it.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		John in New Jersey there.
		Tony up next on this open forum.
		He's in Michigan, Democrats line.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
		I'm just wondering, people don't know illegal immigrants get less than I think it's 1% of health care, if any, and it has to be on an emergency basis, if anything.
		Furthermore, I don't understand why the Republican Party is not in on this, although I do know that they never wanted the ACA to work and been chipping away at it, and that's why the rates are so high now.
		They have nothing to replace it, and there's no excuse for not trying to work with the devs to get this done because they have nothing to replace it with.
		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Again, this is open forum.
		And how you participate is call us on the lines, 202-748-8001 for Republicans, 202-748-8000 for Democrats, Independents, 202748-8002.
		If you want to make your comments on the matters of politics, including the shutdown, if you want to comment on that, it was yesterday at the White House during a meeting with the Australian Prime Minister.
		The president asked about the outcome, or at least his view, of the outcome of efforts to end the war between Ukraine and Russia.
		Here are those comments from yesterday.
unidentified		Smith, Mr. President, on the war that you haven't solved yet, the Ukraine-Russia situation.
		Have you not locked in a meeting?
		And can you explain just a few weeks ago on how you said that Ukraine could possibly win the war and the territory, but nevertheless?
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		They could still win it.
		I don't think they will, but they could still win it.
		I never said they would win it.
		I said they could win.
		Anything could happen.
		You know, war is a very strange thing.
		A lot of bad things happen.
		A lot of good things happen.
		If you look at the Middle East, I would say prior to us hitting Iran so hard, we could have never made that deal because you would have had a dark cloud over the Middle East when we took out their nuclear capability, which was one of the great military maneuvers of all time.
		It was flawless.
		You saw that those magnificent B-2s.
		I mean, that was a flawless move that was done by some very talented people headed up by Pete and everybody else and our great generals and general in particular, Raisin Kane.
		We did a great job.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		The Wall Street Journal this morning follows up with a story taking a look at efforts on Ukraine, saying that the president has turned his attention back to the war after reaching a deal in the Middle East for a ceasefire in Gaza and those release of Israeli hostages.
		He's planning to meet with Vladimir Putin in Budapest as he renews efforts to bring the conflict to an end.
		His travails, the president's travails, thus have far have left the conflict careening towards a fifth year with a growing death toll, increasingly powerful aerial strikes in Russia and Ukraine, and a rising financial cost to Ukraine's Western allies.
		At that center of the talks have been gnarly territorial disputes, in particular the fate of Ukraine's eastern Donbass region.
		Moscow's forces have been steadily grinding forward in Donbass at a tremendous cost in Russian lives.
		Robert, up next.
		Republican line in New York.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, hello.
unidentified		I was wondering when the Senate is going to do another revote on the government bill.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		It'll be, I think it's believed this week.
		Let me find an exact date for you.
		But what do you think about the shutdown so far?
unidentified		Yeah, I don't know if it's going to affect food stamps or Medicaid.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Coffee in California, Independent Line.
unidentified		Hi.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		You're on.
unidentified		Go ahead.
		I just feel really sad because the president is supposed to be for everyone.
		He's supposed to be all of our president.
		And he's going on saying he hates Democrats.
		He hates people.
		That's not how we're supposed to be.
		When Obama was in there, he was for everyone.
		When Bush was in there, he was for everyone.
		I've never heard anything like this in my life.
		It's really sad.
		And for him to drop pieces all over people, I think he's disgusting.
		I think he needs to go and sit down somewhere.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Tim in Kentucky, Democrats lying.
		Good morning.
		You're next.
unidentified		Morning, morning.
adam in fort worth ▲ ● ▼		I just wanted to comment on the continuing destruction of our government, our Democratic way of life.
unidentified		I mean, look at it.
		This guy's dropping poop on everybody.
		He hates Democrats.
		He's out to destroy this country.
		He's destroying the White House right now.
		Take a look at that.
		And these artillery shale things declaring war on cities.
		What in the world?
		I want to hear the Republicans that don't agree with that.
		That's my comment, and thank you all very much.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		That's Tim there in Kentucky.
		This is from the Oregonian, actually Oregon Live reporting on their website saying that it was that federal appellate court Monday allowing President Trump to maintain federal control over the Oregon National Guard and deploy troops until the case is fully litigated in court.
		But the ruling doesn't mean troops will be on the ground immediately.
		In Portland, lawyers for the state and city of Portland pledged to follow a motion asking for Swift reconsideration by a larger contingent of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.
		Quote, today's ruling, if allowed to stand, will give the president unilateral power to put Oregon soldiers on our streets with almost no justification.
		We are on a dangerous path in America.
		A statement from Oregon Attorney General Dan Rayfield.
		Let's hear from Robert next.
		Robert joins us from Connecticut, Republican line.
unidentified		Yes, thanks.
		About the Epstein files, I think if that's not being released because the Mossad and the CIA are running a blackmailing ring.
		And if that came out, that would destroy Israel's standing with the United States.
		And second, about the health care, the Democrats can't win without illegal immigrants in this country.
		And with the census, they were counted so the states that have large populations get more money and more congressional seats.
		And these states that have it, they get more money and they can have Cal Medicaid and so forth.
		And about the guy that said unity, there is no unity when you want open borders and men and women sports.
		No unity.
		Thank you for your time.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Gary, up next.
		Independent Line, San Antonio.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Pedro, I'm so glad to have you.
		To be honest, if you are not on the program, I don't even watch it.
		I like how you control this program.
		Not disrespect to anybody else, but you control this program, and I really appreciate you.
		Okay, I want to say, I really don't understand why the Democrats are so weak.
		I mean, when the Democrats were ruling, the Republicans complained, high prices, high prices, high prices.
		Only gas has gone down.
		Everything has gone up.
		And they are not saying it.
		Everything.
		Everything has gone up.
		And the Democrats are not saying anything.
		And, sir, that man just talked a while ago.
		He needs to go back to some training because what he's talking, I'm from the state of Connecticut, living in Texas, Ag's military, retiring.
		And what he's saying is a bunch of crap.
		And that president, may we pray for him?
		That man is crazy.
		May we pray for him.
		This man is crazy.
		At least Mr. Washer President named before, I can't remember him.
		His name though, that man may have some little things, but he's not crazy.
		This man is crazy.
		Absolutely crazy.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Gary there in San Antonio.
		Again, later on in the program, 10 o'clock after this program actually ends.
		We're expecting a press conference from the House Speaker, Mike Johnson, to give his perspective on the latest when it comes to matters of the shutdown.
		The House not back for votes.
		Members are still in their districts back home until the Senate resolves the issues, or at least their issues, with legislation on the shutdown.
		You can still follow along on our main channels, the House on C-SPAN, the Senate on C-SPAN too.
		As always, our other platforms, our digital platforms specifically, our app is C-SPAN now.
		If you want an on-the-go version of things that you can see on this network, and as always, you can turn to our website at c-span.org.
		Joseph in Michigan, Democrats line.
		Hello, you're next up.
		Joseph in Michigan.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Can you hear me?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Yep, you're on.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		All right.
		Yeah, I got to put my input in, you know, because I don't know, Democrats, make me feel like sometimes I'm independent because some things I don't go with the gender stuff.
		You know, when I don't, I can't see my granddaughter in there fighting a man.
		And then you get through fighting, you go, you like that.
		I don't need a boy man, a boy lady, whatever, frightening my granddaughter.
		And when it comes to this presidency, Obama said years ago that this man wasn't stable.
		And America, as y'all look around, pay attention.
		He out there in other countries doing what he wants to do.
		But here in the United States, you have lost over a quarter of a million jobs and you're steady losing.
		You don't see this man.
		The only thing he's doing is destroying.
		Billionaires really, what they do is they do what they want because they can live in Australia, Paris, Russia, Germany.
		They can live where they want to live.
		So therefore, when you got billions, you don't really care about the United States of America, especially if you think it's done wrong to you.
		And I think what they feel, President Trump think that the Democrats, when they try to persecute him and all that, he's trying to get back at everybody.
		But he's damaging millions of people.
		So when you say make America great, what has he done for America?
		Americans, besides tear it down.
		And y'all still falling for this man.
		Billionaire doesn't give a damn about a poor man.
		You don't even speak about poor people.
		Here it is right now.
		You got poor people in the middle class.
		They're getting ready to tear their health care down.
		And y'all go sit up there and listen to it.
		I'm telling you, don't keep following a fool.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Or we're going to be in real trouble.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Robert next in Maryland, Independent Line.
unidentified		Good morning, Pedro.
		I think the one thing that this government shutdown has proven to all Americans that the government is extremely overblowed.
		None of our lives have gotten worse.
		We haven't missed out on any meals.
		Nothing's been shut down.
		Everybody's going on.
		The only thing I can see that has been a negative to this government shutdown is it's hard to get a tea time on the golf course now because all these bureaucrats and government workers are over here hogging up all the first tea times.
		But, you know, you can see that the government does completely nothing.
john in unknown ▲ ● ▼		And you could literally wipe out half the federal government and this country would run just fine.
unidentified		It's just blurted.
		And good riddance.
		If all of them sit off and don't get another paycheck, I'm glad it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people that they deserve it.
		Have a good day, Pedro.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Robert there in Maryland, it was Hakeem Jeffries on the Senate's efforts to vote on a standalone measure when it comes to paying troops and federal workers who are not getting paid during this government shutdown.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Here's the speaker from that or the perspective of the House Minority Leader yesterday.
unidentified		This week, the Senate is expected to vote on legislation that will pay federal employees and U.S. service members who've been working throughout the shutdown.
unidentified		Do you encourage your Democratic colleagues to support this when it comes on the board?
hakeem jeffries ▲ ● ▼		Understanding that that is not a comprehensive bill that actually is designed to reopen the government while at the same time addressing the issues that need to be confronted on behalf of the American people, which include lowering the high cost of living and decisively addressing the Republican health care crisis.
		So it's not legislation that I support because it appears to be more like a political ploy to pick and choose, giving Donald Trump discretion which employees should be compensated and which employees should not be compensated.
		All employees should be compensated, and that will happen when we reopen the government.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		In Maryland, Republican line, this is Steve.
unidentified		I just wanted to make a comment because I agree with the Democrats on a lot of things.
		I agree with the Republicans on a lot of things.
		But one thing I don't agree with is when we're furloughing all these people, or they're being terminated, jobs are going to be gone.
		But yet, we can spend $100 million in a ballroom on the White House.
		Are we going to spend all this money on gold leaf to go around the fireplace and around archways around the hot doorways around the White House?
		Is that really the time and place to do it when all these people are out of work now?
		I love the show.
		Thank you very much.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		From Jerome, who joins us from California.
		Hello there.
		Democrats line.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		Are you there?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		You're on.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Yes.
		I would like for everybody or somebody to look up the word pragmatic.
		I didn't know what it meant, so I looked it up.
		And I guess that's not to be influenced by other people's opinion.
		You know, you gather the facts and you make your decision on what you've learned or what you know.
		I don't know how much we can blame the past politicians for what goes wrong and take credit for everything that goes right.
		I mean, anybody can really serve well if that's how they score themselves.
		History will write what people think about people long after they're gone.
		So, anyway, thanks for taking my call.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you: what are you all relating that to for the things you said?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		What were you relating that to specifically?
unidentified		Well, specifically, I think that, you know, let's say Republicans and Democrats and Independents are all football teams and everybody's a player.
		I don't know if you should root for the team.
		I mean, we're supposed to be represented by the government.
		So get rid of all the titles of the teams, the Republicans or the Democrats, and just have people run on their constituents the way it's supposed to be, you know, run.
		Represent the people.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And is it your perspective that they're not being represented currently?
unidentified		No, I think Republicans stick with Republicans.
		And, you know, all the political systems are power.
		And, you know, the voters, the average thought of the average voter is not being represented.
		It is being clouded by the power of the party.
		Represent your voters.
		Okay.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Jerome, they're in California.
		David is in Mississippi, Independent Line.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, the hell of the.
		Good morning.
		I just wanted to mention that I don't believe that this is a political government shutdown.
		This is a Supreme Court shutdown.
		They're the ones that allow Citizens United, where corporations can give whatever they want to to every corporation everywhere.
		And they're also the ones that are allowing gerrymandering all over different states.
		But they did allow states to have a stand-your-ground law.
		So if you're poked by our mass men and you fear for your life, you can stand your ground.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		But the specific shutdown as we currently see it are due to specific actions in Congress.
		So why not put the ban, why not direct it towards them?
		He hanged up.
		And let's get one more call.
		Keith in Virginia, Republican line, your last call for this open forum.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yes.
		Hello.
		Good morning.
		I just wanted to comment on callers talking about how expensive life has gotten.
		And really the reason why is because of all the entitlement programs that we have.
		And we have a large number of people who are not here legally who are taking advantage of those programs.
		And that's why life has gotten so expensive.
		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Keith and Virginia, finishing off the call for this open forum.
		Thanks for those of you who participated.
		Two guests will join us throughout the course of this program.
		Today, later on, we'll have a discussion with Michael Weiser.
		He's with PBS Frontline.
		He's a producer and writer.
		And they'll talk about the latest film they have out today, The Rise of RFK Jr.
		That'll be a little later in the program.
		But first, we'll hear from Club for Growth President Dave McIntosh.
		He's a former Republican member of Congress.
		We'll talk about the shutdown, upcoming November elections, and other issues.
		And Washington Journal continues.
unidentified		Sunday, with our guest, Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett, only the fifth woman to serve on the high court and author of the book, Listening to the Law.
unidentified		She joins our host, renowned author and civic leader David Rubinstein.
david rubenstein ▲ ● ▼		And what do you hope most people will take away from your book?
justice amy coney barrett ▲ ● ▼		I think what I want them to take away from the book is that they should be proud of the court.
justice amy coney barrett ▲ ● ▼		And I want them to be able, I want them to understand the way the court grapples with the legal questions that matter to the country.
unidentified		Watch America's Book Club with Justice Amy Coney Barrett, Sunday at 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN.
		America marks 250 years, and C-SPAN is there to commemorate every moment, from the signing of the Declaration of Independence to the voices shaping our nation's future.
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		Join us for remarkable coast-to-coast coverage, celebrating our nation's journey like no other network can.
		America 250.
		Over a year of historic moments.
		Only on the C-SPAN networks.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And past president.
		Why are you doing this?
		This is outrageous.
unidentified		This is a Kandaroot Court.
		Fridays, C-SPAN presents a rare moment of unity.
		Ceasefire, where the shouting stops and the conversation begins.
		Politico Playbook chief correspondent and White House Bureau Chief Dasha Burns is host of Ceasefire, bringing two leaders from opposite sides of the aisle into a dialogue.
		Ceasefire, on the network that doesn't take sides.
		Fridays at 7 and 10 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN.
		Washington Journal continues.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Our guest is the president of Club for Growth, Dave McIntosh, joining us.
		We'll talk about the group in a bit.
		He served in Congress as a former U.S. Representative for the state of Indiana.
		Dave McIntosh joining us on Washington Road.
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Great to meet you, Pedro.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		As a former congressman, how do you look at things like shutdown, particularly what you're seeing now?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Right now, I think we're seeing the Democrats holding out for a position that can't be maintained in simple extending the government services.
		And we went through shutdowns when I was there, and more famously in 2012 about Obamacare.
		The people don't want the government to be held hostage for one political party's agenda or the other.
		And so I think what they should do is reopen the government, have people go back to work, and then negotiate what do they want to do about COVID subsidies?
		Do they want to extend them?
		Do they want to stop them?
		Because we're through, finished with COVID.
		But to shut down the government, most people think, why?
		What's going on?
		It looks dysfunctional in Washington.
		Now, the other thing is I was just out in California and Texas.
		Folks outside of Washington aren't really thinking about it that much.
		It doesn't affect their daily lives.
		And so they view it as kind of a political stagecraft.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		When it comes to the subsidies, which are at the center of this fight, because Obamacare has been along so long, is it pragmatic to consider complete elimination of them at this point, do you think?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think what it is, Pedro, is these were additional subsidies that were put in place during COVID.
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Now that we don't have COVID anymore, people are saying, well, go back to where it was before.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And is that a good move then?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, absolutely.
		Well, especially when you've got $3, $4 trillion of debt that's being piled up every year in the budget.
		Congress has to figure out what are we going to hold back?
		What are we going to stop spending?
		How do we make these programs more efficient, more effective?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		You put out a recent piece just this week from The Hill.
		Just the headline that's attached to it, I'll show the folks at home saying Democrats fight to keep COVID era handouts for rich, illegal immigrant health care.
		Can you explain that last part?
		Because this has been a lot of discussion about what this actually means.
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		I think part of what we're seeing is during COVID, they opened it up to everybody.
		Whether or not you're a citizen, illegal aliens would qualify for it.
		And today, the sentiment in the country is much, much different towards that.
		And part of it was you had four years of open borders under President Biden, and the American people said, this is not what we want in our country.
		It's time to actually go back to enforcing the laws.
		If you're not here legally, you shouldn't be getting the benefits.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that when you hear Republicans like yourself say that, is it they talk about, because Democrats will say, well, this really only applies to, say, care that's done in emergency rooms that was passed under President Reagan or certain states that spend their own money and get Medicare money back.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		So when you say that illegal health or health care for illegals, it's actually kind of a misconception of what Republican messaging is.
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, I think the Republican messaging is right on.
		When you say the states use their own money and then reimburse themselves with Medicaid, that means they're using taxpayer dollars.
		And that's what Congress now is saying.
		We're cutting that off.
		We're not going to spend that.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		At that point, then, if the shutdown continues, is this something you would support as far as continuation?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Or are we at a point where some kind of discussion has to take place to reopen things and get things rolling again?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		I think what they should do is reopen and then go negotiate issues like what are we going to do about COVID subsidies.
		Interestingly, President Trump's put on the table, if you're going to keep the government shut down, I'm going to start furloughing unnecessary employees.
		As you know, people who are essential to the U.S. government continue to work even in a shutdown.
		And so that what I kept hearing out in California and Texas was, well, if they're not essential, why do we have them?
		Especially since we have this tremendous debt that gets being piled up every year.
		So I think the president's kind of put on the table, look, Democrats, if you're going to shut down the government in order to try to get your policy initiatives, I'm going to use that opportunity to try start right-sizing the government.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		It was the House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries yesterday.
		He talked about the president, his role that he should be taking at this point when it comes to the shutdown.
		I want to play a little bit of what he had to say.
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Get your thoughts on it.
hakeem jeffries ▲ ● ▼		Donald Trump definitively needs to get involved.
		He needs to get off the sidelines, get off the golf course, and actually decide to end the shutdown that he's created, that he has allowed to happen.
		We know that House and Senate Republicans don't do anything without getting permission from their boss, Donald J. Trump.
		And the reason why there have been no negotiations, zero negotiations, since Republicans shut the government down is because Donald Trump clearly wants the government shut down.
		He wants to inflict pain on the American people.
		And this will not change until Donald Trump gives Republicans permission to sit down with Democrats.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		That's the perspective of the House Minority Leader.
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		But he loses all credibility when he says Donald Trump shut down the government when it's the Democrats in the Senate just today refusing to reopen it.
		So that's why he's in the minority.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Dave McIntosh is with us.
		And if you want to ask him questions about the shutdown and other matters of politics, you can do so on the phone lines.
		202-748-8001 for Republicans, 202-748-8000 for Democrats.
		And Independents, 2027-8002.
		And you can text us at 202-748-8003.
		As we mentioned at the top of the program, you are the president for Club for Growth.
		What is that?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		We are the largest conservative political organization, bigger than the Coke groups, bigger than others.
		We're not affiliated directly with the party committees, the RNC.
		We run independent campaigns for free market, limited government candidates all around the country.
		Last cycle, we put into the elections about $160 million over the two years and ended up winning 77% of our races.
		So we're good at what we do.
		What we stand for is balanced budget, lower taxes, less regulation, reducing the spending so that we can eliminate the debt.
		We're also free trade.
		We think that helps benefit the country and actually creates jobs here.
		One of the things we did, Pedro, was in the tax bill supported a 100% expensing of building new factories.
		And that's another way of creating jobs here in the U.S., bringing back a lot of our economic activity.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		As far as tariffs, what's one of the president's large efforts when it comes to that?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		What do you think about where he is today on tariffs?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		You know, and President Trump has actually convinced me in cases like China, where there's also a national security concern, that we should use tariffs.
		Should use every tool possible to protect America's national security interests.
		I think getting to a negotiation with other countries that have tariffed our goods where we get to zero-0 is the right result with our allies, with Canada, Mexico, Switzerland.
		And I think he should just keep negotiating.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		You said President Trump convinced you, were you on the fence initially, particularly when it came to China and how he approached that?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, traditionally, the Club for Growth had a position that let's keep tariffs low.
		Other countries may tariff us, but it'll be good for the world economy.
		And he changed my mind.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		How specifically?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Well, that there is a national security component there and that we should try to reach parity, ideally zero-zero parity.
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		But if other countries are tariffing our goods, then we probably do need to put in a tariff to get them back to the negotiating table.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		For all the talk on tariffs, what have we seen as actual results, do you think, that people could say, you know, with all the mindset on tariffs, what's the end result?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Is there something measurable there?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		I think what you see often is uncertainty in the marketplace, and especially as tariffs may go up and then back down.
		I think one of the things that the president says is we're gaining revenue from some of those tariffs.
		Now, what that means is American companies, American citizens are paying more for their goods, and so we would prefer to reduce it down to zero-zeros so that you essentially give people a tax cut.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		One more question about the shutdown.
		Being a former legislator yourself, the House Speaker for now has kept members home.
		Is that a good look?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		I think what Mike's doing is saying we've voted multiple times to reopen the government.
		Now it's up to the Senate.
		And with the Senate not taking any action on that bill, I don't need my members back here.
		As soon as the Senate votes to reopen the government, he'll call them back.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Again, Dave McIntosh, along with us for this discussion.
		Our first call for you comes from Cal.
		Cal's in Maryland on our Independent Line.
		You're on with our guests.
		Cal, good morning.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Good morning, Pedro.
		How are you?
		My main question is: you know, especially living here in the D.C., Maryland, Virginia area, we feel the shutdown very strongly because there's a lot of federal employees.
		And, you know, my main concern as an independent is why aren't, of course, both sides doing more.
		But what's really prevalent is, you know, the Republicans, you know, they're home, you know, doing their thing.
		But if they really cared about the, you know, the citizens of this country, the government workers, they would be here in D.C. negotiating.
		I know Mike Johnson has been out there showing, you know, kind of having his talking points, but, you know, having his members here in D.C. making those points with him maybe would make a little bit difference.
		But I think, you know, we need to be put a party aside and come together for the American people, for the American workers.
		It's really, really disheartening, you know, what's happening in this country at the moment.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Kyle, thank you.
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Thank you, Kyle.
		I think you've got a good point.
		That's why I would hope that the Senate Democrats would just say, okay, yes, we'll reopen the government.
		That's a simple little vote.
		We'll just keep spending what we are spending, and then we'll negotiate for changes separately from that.
		That's where they would get back to work representing the interests of their constituents, and both parties could then come together and negotiate what to do in the future.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		It was Senator Thun on X saying, I'm not sure how much clear I can be.
		I can give it a try.
		I'm willing to sit down with Democrats to discuss that growing unaffordability and unsustainability of Obamacare.
		It's a system they created.
		I'm happy to hear them out.
		Heck, I'm willing to give them a vote.
		Say that's true.
		What should be at the center of these negotiations the other day?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think there are a lot of reforms to the Obamacare.
		First of all, we don't need the COVID-era subsidies because COVID's over.
		And then second, what they should do is start bringing more free market principles into it where people have a little skin in the game before they go to the doctor's office.
		And what we're seeing now is a lot of the Obamacare regulations have made both Medicaid and the private sector care unaffordable for a lot of people.
		And so what we should do is go in and look how is the government-run health care system, which is essentially what Obamacare is, costing people and giving them less care.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		We had a couple of people call in this warning saying that for all the talk about the reforms that Republicans specifically don't have a plan for health care.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Would you consider that a true statement at this point?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		I think you talk to different Republicans.
		They've got a lot of good ideas.
		One of them would be to increase the use of the health savings accounts and make those tax subsidized there, where individuals are responsible for picking and choosing in the marketplace what type of health care they need.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Chris is next.
		Chris is in Massachusetts, Independent Line.
		Hello there.
unidentified		Good morning, Vigil.
		I just got a couple of questions that you asked him about.
		One was tariffs.
		Now, going back to your madman little illusion, George Washington did it to fund it.
		Now, tariffs is a tax on the people.
		Everyone's saying that we're making money, but all we're doing is taking money from the people already.
		So is that a yes or a no?
		Is it a tax on the people or are they getting it from the other countries?
		That's one of my questions for them.
		And the other thing when you said about the health share, the illegal aliens, it is on the books that they are not allowed to accept it.
		So why can't they put more refunds in to go into hospitals and stopping them instead of doing what they're doing?
		And the last one is for the shutdown.
		All they got to do is got to build a bit of the filibuster.
		It's simple.
		And if they do that, they can pass a lot.
		They can open it.
		Everything will open right up.
		But they don't need a party once they cut off their left arm.
		That's all.
		Those are the three questions.
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		So let me talk a little bit about the tariffs.
		The first question.
		We say there's a tariff on goods coming from China, so people think that's a tariff on China.
		And to some extent, they'll lower their prices to be competitive here in the marketplace.
		So companies that come from China or other countries take a little bit of the hit of the tariff.
		But the tariffs themselves are actually paid by Americans when the good or the product or the service is brought into the country.
		And so that is a tax that Americans end up paying.
		Overall, one of the things that people who support the use of tariffs want to increase the cost of goods coming in from other countries so that American companies can be more competitive with them.
		In the end, that ends up distorting the economy, and we end up losing overall in terms of economic growth.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		The Supreme Court said to hear a case concerning the president's tariff policy.
		That will be on November 5th.
		From your perspective, your club's perspective, what's at stake there concerning the tariffs?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		I think what the court's going to look at is should these tariffs be voted on by Congress, by the Senate and the House, or have they delegated the power to the President to set the tariffs?
		And if they did delegate that, what limits or what are there in terms of how much unilateral use of the tariffs the president has?
		That's less about the question of whether tariffs are good or bad.
		That's more about the question of which branch has the responsibility for imposing tariffs.
		The Constitution says Congress has to pass them.
		They, over the years, have passed bills saying the president can when there's a national security issue.
		And I think the court's going to look at that and say, what are the boundaries around that delegation?
		Is that an appropriate delegation?
		And how much authority did they delegate?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		There's a story on the upcoming case saying that it's small businesses challenging those global tariffs, urging the court to affirm lower court rulings that the import levies amount to a massive illegal tax on American companies.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		What do you think of that characterization?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Well, obviously that's their view because they're being forced to pay these tariffs.
		Whether illegal or not, I think that'll be the question before the court.
		What the president has asserted is there are national security concerns.
		He believes that Congress has given him the authority to put tariffs in place when that's the case.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Is your organization filing an amicus brief on it?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		No, we're staying out of the courts.
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Right now we're starting to pivot, Pedro, and think about the elections that are coming up.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		We'll talk about that in a little bit.
		Let's hear from Peter in New York, Republican line for Dave McIntosh.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Yes, Mr. McIntosh.
		Well, two things.
		As far as you said about the tariffs, some of it is being eaten by the companies themselves and the wholesalers.
		So it's not the American people paying the whole thing.
		Second of all, as far as the CR is concerned, yeah, you need 60 votes in the Senate in order to pass the continuing resolution.
		And also, they don't want to end the filibuster on the CR because the party in power can add on all kinds of stuff onto the CR.
		But why can't majority leader soon just say, we will eliminate the filibuster on clean CRs?
		If it's a clean CR, you only need 51 votes.
		I don't understand why they can't do that, and that would eliminate all this chaos.
		Thank you very much.
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, thank you for your call.
		And it's appropriate here from New York because one of the major factors going on behind this battle for shutdown or not shutdown is New York politics.
		Senator Schumer is a more establishment, longtime member of the Democrat Party.
		He's being challenged by the radical progressives, AOC Mandani, who's running for mayor of New York as a communist, basically, that he wants the government to take over the means of production.
		That political pressure means that Senator Schumer, who traditionally would have said, I'll negotiate, get some things, and then we'll reopen the government, he did that last spring, and he got basically almost figuratively tarred and feathered.
		But people in his own party went after his head.
		They wanted him removed because they're so radical in the progressive wing of the Democrat Party.
		That puts pressure on folks here in the Democrat Party here in D.C. to not negotiate, hold out, refuse to vote to reopen the government.
		As to the filibuster, I'm a big believer that the filibuster is a good thing, even when it works against you.
		It's working against us now.
		The Democrats are holding out and saying we're not going to give you the 7, 8, 9 votes you need to get to 60 votes.
		But typically, it's the conservative minority that benefits from the filibuster because you have to persuade both conservatives and liberals to move forward in the Senate.
		And so I'm a proponent of keeping it, even when at this point it's frustrating for us.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		You spoke about pressure.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		It was Punch Bowl and you saying that the possibility is there that Senate Democrats eyeing that November 1st deadline on subsidies as a shutdown off-ramp, saying that Democrats think they can argue it's no longer feasible to address the expiring ACA subsidies legislatively and then make the Republicans own the resulting premium hikes.
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's an interesting strategy on their part, especially since Senator Thune saying I'm willing to sit down and negotiate with you on changes to the health care system.
		I think what the Democrats are doing is looking for an exit ramp from this.
		The polls show they're being held responsible by the American people for not reopening the government, despite what Minority Leader Jeffries says.
		They don't believe them that it's the Republicans because the Republicans keep bringing the bill forward to reopen the government.
		And so maybe that November 1 exit ramp would be something they take advantage of.
		Maybe it's the New York election when once the political pressure gets off of Chuck Schumer a little bit and he can sit down and say, okay, we'll reopen it and then let's deal with Obamacare.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Some of the Republicans said it was the end of the No Kings rally, possibly that could take pressure off them too.
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		I guess that's true too.
		It's interesting because, again, there are far-left radical elements show up at these rallies and say ridiculous things like ICE agents should be shot.
		You've got these radical elements that are advocating violence when they don't get their way politically because they lost the election back in 2024.
		Average Americans look at that and say that's way out of bounds.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Let's hear from Jen.
		Jen is in Pennsylvania for our guest, Dave McIntosh.
		Democrats line.
		Jen, hello there.
		You're next up.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		I just wanted to say I've worked in health insurance for over 30 years.
		And I remember before Obamacare or ACA how hard it was for individuals to get insurance on their own.
		It was only really through groups.
		They had to go through underwriting.
		It was very expensive.
		What people need to understand, though the government is subsidizing insurance, members are also paying abortion.
		I think people don't really think about that part.
		Taking that subsidy away will cause people to drop their insurance, which is if there's an emergency, they're going to end up with Medicaid and we're going to end up paying for it anyway.
		I believe it's irresponsible of the government not to get together to discuss the continuation.
		About time to come up with another solution.
		I don't need any of the benefits.
		I pay my taxes.
		I don't need Medicaid.
		I don't need food stamps.
		But I believe everyone needs help at some point in their lives, and I just can't turn my back on them.
		Mr. McIntosh, do you have an idea of what we can do to help people that want to have affordable health care?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		I do think we need to create affordable health care in the country.
		One of the things that happened, though, was in COVID, they increased these subsidies so that half the people involved on the government-provided health care, Medicaid, don't pay any premiums at all.
		And my view is in order to have skin in the game, everybody should pay, even if it's $1, $5, some amount to do that.
		It sounds like, Jen, you do pay that, and that seems fair.
		What we're worried about, though, is extending these subsidies that came out in COVID when people lost their jobs, the economy was shut down, they didn't have income coming in.
		And so as a temporary measure, they added about $1.5 trillion of subsidies that we don't need anymore.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		When it comes to, oh, do you have a follow-up caller?
unidentified		I just was saying, it's still very expensive, even without the subsidies.
		If people are willing to pay their portion, I agree with that.
		They're willing.
		They're not getting it for free.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Caller.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Do you want to follow up on that?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		I'll set.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		When it comes to health care, is it your mindset that government-provided health care should just be for catastrophic services or should it extend further than that for regular visits and upkeep and such and such?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Or is there a slippery slope there if you go that way?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so one of the things that has happened in Obamacare is the expansion of Medicaid.
		Originally, when Medicare and Medicaid were put into place, Medicare was for senior citizens who were no longer working and would make sure that they paid taxes, contributed all of their lives, that they would be taken care of.
		Medicaid was for people who were disabled or out of work.
		It wasn't meant to be a broad 40% of the population would be put onto that program.
		By expanding it, what Obamacare did was essentially make privately provided health insurance unaffordable.
		They added all these regulations.
		They put requirements in there that people have to pay for premium insurance rather than just your basic catastrophic.
		And as a result, they've crowded out the private insurance market and expanded to roughly 40, 45% of the population on what was meant to be a safety net in the Medicaid program.
		So I think what we've got to do is go back and say, is this the best way for us to pay for this?
		Now, the people who are really making the money in this, Pedro, are the insurance companies.
		And I think one of the things they should do is look at the payments that are made to them under these programs and say, you're getting fat, you're making too much money, not providing a great service, we're going to cut you back.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that an anti-free market approach, though, if you go after a specific tangent?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can't call it free market when it's the government paying the bills, right?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		So we've got to take care of the taxpayers, make sure their money is wisely spent.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		You said that you take a look and follow elections.
		Do things like shutdowns do you think impact this election coming up next election next year?
		To what degree do you think that happens?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, less next year, because there'll be a lot of other issues that come up and go between now and then.
		I actually think Republicans are doing remarkably well in a midterm setting.
		Typically, you see the power, the party that is in power in the White House, lose ground, lose popularity.
		President Trump's popularity is actually going up in all of this.
		And Republicans are united.
		They have set out a clear message.
		We're going to reopen government.
		Then we'll negotiate on what to do about these COVID subsidies.
		Whereas the Democrats are split, right?
		You've got two Democrats running in New York for mayor, former Governor Cuomo and the new nominee Mandani.
		And they're arguing what should our party stand for.
		You get these protests where you've got really radical people coming and saying, we think ICE agents should be shot.
		We so disagree with what's going on with them shutting down the border.
		The American people are going to look at that and say over the next year, do we want to continue with Republicans with the progress they've made, the economy coming back, people going back to work, life being reopened, or do they want to go back to the where it was before 2024 or even way back to the first term where all the Democrats really did was spend their time trying to impeach Donald Trump.
		And that doesn't move the country forward.
		So I think the 26 elections are going to be which direction do we go forward from there.
		Now, I do think you could typically see an impact on the off-year elections, if you call it that, Virginia, New Jersey.
		But interestingly, what I've noticed is Republicans have actually been gaining in the polls here in Virginia, up in New Jersey as well, where it's become a close race.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		It was Dave, the head of the DNC, Ken Martin, said this about the New Jersey race in a recent interview, saying, New Jersey is the best place, excuse me, probably for Donald Trump to actually stop the Democratic momentum, or at least minimize the Democratic momentum that we've seen throughout this year.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		What do you think about that statement coming from the head of the DNC?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		I found that remarkable and truthful.
		New Jersey is a very interesting case.
		It's traditionally a very deep blue Democrat state, but you've also got a lot of working families who are Democrats who like what Trump's doing, bringing back the economy, bringing back jobs.
		And you've seen there a series of fairly corrupt governors on the Democrat side with the Republican reformer coming on strong.
		Last I saw, I was almost in the margin of error, I think, about a four-point race.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Is that part of the effort that Club for Grove will make specifically as the larger issues of races they'll look at this year?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		I think what we'll do is take a look and analyze what happened in New Jersey and say how do we capitalize that on congressional races.
		Our biggest priority is going to be keeping the majority in the House.
		I think the Senate is in pretty good shape.
		There'll be some three or four or five races there.
		But the House is going to be the battleground for which direction the country goes in.
		We formed a new fund.
		We call it quite simply the House Fund out of our super PAC.
		And my goal is to raise $40 million to bring to those races, help good people get elected.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		As it stands today, what's the future of the House, do you think?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		I would say better than 50% odds that their Republicans keep the majority, which cuts against history.
		Now, Pedro, when I was in Congress, there was one midterm election where President Clinton's party actually gained seats, and that was in 1998.
		And what was happening is Republicans were starting to talk about impeaching President Clinton.
		And the president went to his base all over the country and said, send Democrats to Congress because the Republicans are out to get me.
		I think the Democrat Party right now, because they don't have any other issue than they hate Donald Trump, are setting up the same type of scenario where President Trump can go to the American people and say, you elected me, I'm doing good things, you see it every day.
		They're going to try to stop me, try to impeach me.
		I need you to come out and vote once again.
		Because the important factor in midterms is the turnout falls way off.
		And typically it's the party in power.
		They think we got our guy there in the White House.
		We don't have to go out and vote now.
		And I think President Trump will be able to motivate them to come out and vote.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Let's hear from Vincent.
		Vincent's in Pennsylvania, independent line for Dave McIntosh.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		Good morning.
		In general, the government shutdown and the voting on this bill seems like a moot point.
		If the president and the executive branch can just choose not to spend any of that money if they choose to do so.
		This seems like an existential crisis in the balance of power for the American government.
		Your thoughts?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		I think you've got a really good point there.
		And President Trump is saying, okay, the government shut down.
		We're not authorized to spend money.
		I will keep spending on important essential parts of the government, like the military, like people's social security checks, and that.
		But anything that's discretionary, and he happened to pick a lot of the big giveaway boondoggle spending programs on Green New Deal and other things and say, well, Congress hasn't authorized that we spend it.
		I'm not going to spend it.
		Your point is a really valid one that by failing to do its duty, Congress and specifically the U.S. Senate have shifted power from Congress to the executive branch.
		And what they need to do is step up to the plate and claim that power back.
		We're going to pass a spending bill, keep the government open, and then we'll negotiate and have a different debate and difference on the priorities, what we should spend the money on.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Here is Mark.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Mark and Maryland, Republican line.
unidentified		Hi.
		Good morning.
		Mr. McIntosh, I want to thank you for focusing earlier on our deficit spending and a national debt.
		I think that's the thing we have to really keep our eyes on, you know, aside from some of the issues like the ACA or Medicare and such.
		You know, our debt right now is like $36 trillion, I think it is.
		And if you divide that by our U.S. population, every man, woman, and child, it's like each person's share of that debt is over $100,000.
		You know, about $106,000.
		You know, so I'd like to propose everybody pull out your checkbook today and let's just clear the slate today.
		And we'll write a check to the U.S. Treasury in the amount of $106,000.
		If you're married, you have a wife and two kids.
		Your share is $430,000.
		So let's do that today.
		And I think everyone out there would say, Mark, you're being outrageous.
		You know, what's outrageous really is the idea of taking that debt and adding another trillion and a half to it.
		You know, and Democrats will say, oh, you're just not compassionate.
		And I'd like to have a Democrat call in and tell me, what's compassionate about taking that crushing debt and passing that on to your kids and your grandkids?
		Thank you.
		Bye.
		Thank you.
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Mark.
		And you're absolutely right.
		It is that debt crisis that even with the budgets that the Republicans passed last year continues to spend more than we actually bring in in revenue in all the income tax, all the tariffs, all of the revenue to the federal government.
		And we're now getting to the point, as you point out, $36 trillion plus added to it every day.
		Not only your point, that a family of four owes essentially $400,000 if they were to pay it down.
		That's like having a second mortgage with a no-home to back it up.
		Or if you're renting an apartment, having to pay a mortgage and pay rent.
		That's what we're putting for the future, especially younger voters, should be very concerned about this because they're the ones over their lifetime who are going to be asked to repay a lot of that debt.
		There's also another reason that I think it's critical that we put an end to the deficit spending and start managing that debt.
		One, it creates inflation.
		We're seeing that it's down now compared to where it was in the Biden years, but we're still seeing inflation greater than 2 percent, which is what the Federal Reserve projects.
		They would like to see the normal level.
		But we're also seeing other countries say, we're not going to buy your debt anymore.
		You know, China has been reducing the amount of debt they hold.
		They own a lot of our debt, which I think is also dangerous.
		You've got China being the bank to the U.S. and yet being our rival for the economy and militarily.
		And so it puts us in a vulnerable situation.
		Right now, we've been able, since World War II, to be the dollar is all around the world, the currency the world uses and bases its economy on.
		Other countries are now saying, hey, they can't get their house in order.
		Maybe we shouldn't buy their debt anymore.
		That's dangerous and precarious for us.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		A couple of questions about topics we've addressed earlier.
		This is from X.
		A viewer says, Mr. McIntosh, do you think a more nuanced approach with regard to tariffs being placed on competitive goods instead of broad tariff application could alleviate some of the new trade war retaliatory measures by other countries?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		I think the danger of tariffs, of having high tariffs, is exactly that, that other countries will retaliate.
		We saw that in the Great Depression.
		People don't have that in living memories, but history tells us when the U.S. put in massive tariffs, Europe, the rest of the world put in retaliatory tariffs, and the whole world economy shrunk and we went through a dark, dark time.
		So it can be very dangerous as you get higher.
		I've heard some innovative, nuanced approach towards tariffs where instead of tariffs on just the finished goods and the raw materials, you let companies that bring in the raw materials and then finish them.
		So for example, furniture manufacturers might have to bring in the wood and other parts of it.
		And then we add the value of finishing the product here.
		Maybe we shouldn't pay tariffs on the inputs, but just tariff the end products.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And on immigration, a regular viewer who puts on X, why are employers not held accountable for illegally hiring undocumented immigrants?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		That is a great question.
		And I think it's been illegal for employers to hire them without, and they're required to check the papers to make sure they have legal status here.
		Violated all the time.
		And if the government started enforcing that rule, I think you'd see, instead of ICE agents having to go and find people and deport them, I think you would see a lot of people decide, oh, I don't have a job here in the U.S. anymore.
		I'm going to head home.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And the ICE agent effort, what do you think overall of the effort by the administration on that?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		I think they're doing a great job.
		I mean, I have a great deal of respect for these ICE agents.
		They're law enforcement agents.
		They're risking their lives.
		They're enforcing the law.
		Was not done for four years under Biden.
		They're doing it.
		They're doing their job.
		And I really think it's a terrible response for these protesters to be calling on them to be shot, to going up in their face.
		They're doing their job.
		Let them do their job.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Let's hear from Illinois.
		This is our Allied for Democrats, Joshua.
		Hello, go ahead.
unidentified		Hi, Representative McIntosh.
		I just can't help but call in because I feel like you're not telling the whole truth about the IEPA tariffs.
		These are unlawful tariffs.
		They were implied, use the act says that they're for unusual and extraordinary threats.
		When I, as a customs broker, that's what I do by trade.
		I pay duties on behalf of American businesses.
		And when I hear you not tell the truth, that there's a supposed emergency and you're abdicating your powers to the president here to impose tariffs.
		There is no emergency with Canada.
		Like, let's just say Canada, that thumbnail's coming over there.
		But you allowed the president to impose these tariffs under the disguise of an emergency.
		And then later on, he ends up using his own powers because you already did that to impose tariffs in Brazil.
		So at what point do you call back your power and actually start acting like a Congress?
		Because what it is, communists, is letting one person take over multiple branches of the government.
		You know, the Constitution doesn't give power to the president to do tariffs.
		So the trade court already ruled on that.
		And lastly, at these parades, nobody was calling.
		I was at a No Kings Rally.
		Nobody was calling for shooting ICE agents.
		What we're arguing about is No Kings.
		Like, if you're able to give emergency powers to him over trade, what does it say that you're not going to declare an emergency in Chicago and let National Guard and then call on martial law or the Insurrection Act?
		You guys are giving emergency powers to the president like it's nothing.
		Okay, got your points.
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		One of the things that's happened is you've seen the rise of these lawless prosecutors in a lot of the cities where they say we're not going to enforce the state and local laws against theft, against shoplifting.
		And you see basically allowing the streets to become unsafe in those cities.
		What the president's responding to is the desire for Americans to have safe streets, to have the laws enforced.
		It would be way better if these local prosecutors would do their job and actually put people in jail who've committed those crimes.
		But out of necessity, the president's saying, I'm not going to let our cities decay to fall into chaos, become Gotham.
		We're going to help them with that in a temporary way.
		I think the American people are on his side.
		The polls show they support his effort to fight crime in that way.
		And honestly, I don't understand our friends in the Democrat Party who end up supporting that type of we're not going to enforce the criminal laws and allow our streets to become unsafe, dangerous shootings.
		And we saw it here in Washington, D.C., as soon as they brought the National Guard in, the crime rate started going way down.
		There were less murders, less violent crime.
		People felt safe on the streets.
		I think all American cities are entitled to that.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		One more call, and this will be from Kathy.
		Kathy in Florida, Republican line.
		You're on.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Good morning.
		God bless America.
		Yes.
		First of all, thank you so much for the work that you're doing.
		I'm a big fan of respecting all the presidents in the United States.
		There's never anything disrespected to say about any of them.
		That's my civility and morality for a family.
		Coming to a specific issue, like the 988, one of the telephone numbers that we have in every city carrying state nationwide for those who are suicidal, mental, emotional, they finally opened it up for everyone, meaning that you didn't have to be, everyone in the LGBTQ was getting first come first serve, and everyone else who was not an LGBTQ plus was not.
		And it finally merged.
		While I'm not using that as an example, when they took the flag down over the U.S., they are upset.
		There's nothing you can say or do to let them come to the table because that flag is down.
		All I'm saying is rainbows is for everyone.
		It has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
		It's going to help us heal.
		Oregon has opened for all strikes to be in the community, the schools and the hospitals that have been saturated with either non-speaking or LGBT.
		We are all one.
		We want to help everyone.
		What is your take?
		Because those in the middle institutions and in the prisons are getting medical help.
		Okay.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Thanks.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Kathy.
unidentified		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		She put a lot out there.
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Yes, she did.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		What do you want to?
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		You know, I think what we're seeing in Florida and states like that is the American dream coming back.
		And you look at some of the policies that brought that out, lower taxes, school choice in the educational system.
		That creates an environment.
		And when you travel around, you notice in states like Florida and Texas, people are happier.
		And they're happier because the freedom that they've been granted allows them to succeed and pursue their dreams.
		And so I think a lot of what she was saying is reflected in that in when you get into those type of environments.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Clubforgrowth.org is the website for our guest organization, Dave McIntosh.
		He serves as the president, former member of the House of Representatives.
		Thanks for your time.
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Great to be with you, Peter.
david mcintosh ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Coming up in a little while, and about a half hour from now, we'll talk with Michael Weiser.
		He is the writer and producer of the latest PBS frontline film, The Rise of RFK Jr.
		We'll talk about that film, but first, Open Forum.
		Here's how you can participate: 202-748-8001 for Republicans, 202-748-8000 for Democrats.
		Independents, 2027 for 8-8002.
		Make those calls now.
		We'll go to open forum when Washington Journal continues.
unidentified		Watch America's Book Club, C-SPAN's bold new original series.
		Sunday, with our guest, Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett, only the fifth woman to serve on the high court and author of the book, Listening to the Law.
		She joins our host, renowned author and civic leader, David Rubinstein.
david rubenstein ▲ ● ▼		And what do you hope most people will take away from your book?
justice amy coney barrett ▲ ● ▼		I think what I want them to take away from the book is that they should be proud of the court.
justice amy coney barrett ▲ ● ▼		And I want them to be able, I want them to understand the way the court grapples with the legal questions that matter to the country.
unidentified		Watch America's Book Club with Justice Amy Coney Barrett, Sunday at 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN.
		This fall, C-SPAN invites you on a powerful journey through the stories that define a nation.
		From the halls of our nation's most iconic libraries comes America's Book Club, a bold, original series where ideas, history, and democracy meet.
		Hosted by renowned author and civic leader David Rubinstein, each week features in-depth conversations with the thinkers shaping our national story.
		Among this season's remarkable guests, John Grisham, master storyteller of the American justice system.
		Justice Amy Coney Barrett, exploring the Constitution, the court, and the role of law in American life.
		Famed chef and global relief entrepreneur Jose Andres, reimagining food.
		Henry Louis Gates, chronicler of race, identity, and the American experience.
		The books, the voices, the places that preserve our past and spark the ideas that will shape our future.
		America's Book Club, premiering this fall, Sundays at 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN.
		Washington Journal continues.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Again, open forum lines will be on your screen.
		Let's hear from Virginia, Virginia, and Maryland, Republican line, starting us off on this open forum.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Thank you.
justice neil gorsuch ▲ ● ▼		This is twofold, actually.
unidentified		The Republicans are complaining about debt, yet they keep giving tax breaks and these incentives.
justice neil gorsuch ▲ ● ▼		And as far as health care, our health care is going down, but the CEO's salaries are going up.
unidentified		So why don't we just get a nonprofit for everybody?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		So as far as a Republican like yourself, what's your message then to your fellow Republicans?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		How would you change it?
unidentified		I write them frequently and I tell them, quit complaining and actually do your job.
unidentified		If you really want to fix our debt, stop giving tax breaks.
justice neil gorsuch ▲ ● ▼		Look at incentives of real cuts, not terminating people, but redundancies.
unidentified		I do that frequently.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Who are you reaching out to specifically?
unidentified		I'm Stenny Hoyer, actually.
		I'm in Charles County.
		I'm in the southern part of the state.
		Okay.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Virginia there in Maryland, starting us off.
		Let's hear from Mariah.
		Mariah in Houston, Democrats line.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		I'm glad I was able to get through.
		As a matter of fact, I wrote down two topics that I am concerned about.
		The first one is while we're in the shutdown, government shutdown, there are people that are required to work and not get a paycheck.
		My question is, is Congress getting paid while the shutdown is in effect?
		Because I don't understand.
		You want other people to work for no paycheck, but you're not working being Congress.
		You're not working.
		And if you're getting a paycheck, how is that fair to the American people who you're supposed to be working for?
		That's my first concern.
		The second one is every time I hear people talking, Democrats, Republicans, or whomever, talking about the reason there's a shutdown is because the Democrats are there talking about Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare.
		Obama is no longer in office.
		Biden is no longer in office.
		I remember doing the presidential debate, Vice President Harris asked President Trump, what are your plans for health care?
		If Obamacare is so terrible, this and that, nothing has been done.
		When she asked the question of President Trump, he said he had a concept of a plan.
		Now, he's been in office nine months.
		I still haven't heard a Republican plan.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		All I hear is that's Mariah there in Houston.
		Let's hear from Walt in North Carolina, Independent Line.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Thank you, sir.
		Thank you.
		The government is a trust, and the officers of that government are trustees.
		And both the trust and the trustees are created for the well-being and the benefit of its citizens, by the people, for the people's health and welfare, but by and for the people.
robert gaylon ross ▲ ● ▼		I think the real measure of wealth in a nation is indicated by the full measure of devotion and protection of citizens.
		I think we should get rid of every member of both parties of Congress and vote them out of office and only bring in those that are going to do the health care that they offer the military and retirees, not independent health care, and shut down the 3,500 nonprofits around Washington, D.C.
		And realize that, again, once again, as Madison did, as Monroe did, that the government answers to the people.
unidentified		The people control the government by voting bad people out of office.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Walton, North Carolina, several international stories to share with you.
		BBC reporting that the Vice President JD Vance landing in Israel as part of the Trump administration's efforts to strengthen the Gaza ceasefire agreement.
		He's expected to push the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to start negotiations on long-term issues for a permanent end to end the war with Hamas to special U.S. envoys.
		Also traveling, Steve Wickhoff and Jared Kushner holding talks with the Israeli Prime Minister on Monday.
		In Japan, lawmakers there electing hardline conservative Sanai Takahachi as prime minister Tuesday, making her the first woman in modern times to lead the key U.S. ally.
		She's 64, the new leader of the governing Liberal Democratic Party, was elected by lawmakers in the lower house of parliament by a vote of 237 to 149 over her closest rival.
		Though her election is a milestone in a country where women are severely underrepresented in government, she enters office with a fragile coalition facing a number of pressing challenges, including a visit next week by President Trump.
		That's from NBC.
		It was yesterday our C-SPAN cameras traveled here to Washington, D.C. for an interview and a discussion with, a discussion with the Ukrainian ambassador.
		One of the things she was asked was what the average American could do to help out and support the country of Ukraine.
		Here's her answer.
olha stefanishyna ▲ ● ▼		Speaking to my American friends, they always really call Ukrainians so naive.
		We are really so naive, you know, because we believe so much in everything which is called American dream, we believe so much in everything which is called democracy, the freedom, the rules.
		This is such a, you know, this has become the building blocks of our nation because after the centuries of fight for our independence, our identity, we have become independent and able to build a country and we have chosen the best the world has to give us.
		So I think it's very important that whatever romantic you see in the American dream, this is all now in Ukraine.
		Unfortunately, it's been preserved by the ultimate price.
		But I think the lady which wrote me a letter just two weeks ago putting a $25 check there, you know, thinks about that the same way because we know she might be a really busy person having a lot of stuff to do, but she has found, you know, 20 minutes in her life to stop.
		I think that there are people who might need her help.
		And I think there's only one thing, police care, because that really matters and that makes a difference.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		That full interview that you get, the portion we just showed you there, but you can see the full discussion that took place yesterday on our website at c-span.org and our app at c-span now.
		In Ohio, we will hear from Elizabeth, Republican Line.
		Go ahead.
		Elizabeth in Ohio, hello.
		One more time for Elizabeth.
		Rose is next.
		Rosen, South Carolina, Democrats line.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I have just two little things I'd like to say this morning as a 77-year-old lady.
		First of all, I think the Democrat senators are doing the right thing to hold out.
		Why?
		Because every time they try to go back and negotiate with the Republicans, the Republicans don't really do what is, in my opinion, what is best for America.
		They only show their negotiation to what is best for our president.
		If I'm correct, once you go back into the government and negotiate with the Republicans and they are in the majority, then if you vote on any one of those bills individually, then the majority rule rather than two-thirds.
		This way, they will need two-thirds in order to get something done.
		So I feel that anytime Americans are not working for Americans, then they're not doing the best for our country because the Constitution is for the people.
		That is just my opinion.
		If I'm incorrect about these individual bills, I would like for someone to respond on it for me.
		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Rosen, South Carolina, let's go to Art.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Art joins us from Illinois, Independent Line.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I just like to talk about seniors and how they are the largest part of the population that depend on their social security and also the health care system.
		No senior is an island.
		When they are deprived by the government, their families have to pick up the slack.
		And when that is done, that's even more people that would be against this administration.
		Their whole MO seems to be to try to cut and affect seniors.
		73 million seniors are in Social Security and depend on Medicare and Medicaid for their health and for their welfare.
		And everything this administration is doing is affecting those people.
		And like I said, no senior is an island.
		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Republican Line next.
		This is Susan in Las Vegas.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I am new to the show and I'm enjoying it very much.
		And this is my first call.
		I wanted to say that a lot of complaints come in about Donald Trump, President Donald Trump spending $200 million Million dollars on a ballroom.
		And I would like to see them correct it every time they say that because Donald Trump has made it very clear over and over that the money is coming in from his personal bank account and from donations.
		And secondly, I would like to say that as I listen to people talk from all over the country, it's contrary to what I'm hearing.
		I watch liberal stations in the morning, I watch C-SPAN, and I listen to a conservative station in the afternoon.
		And a lot of what people are saying is not factual.
		And I just wanted to say to those that are watching, really you should expand your viewing to, of course, include C-SPAN, but also listen to some conservative stations once in a while.
		Because if you listen to Donald Trump speak himself, sometimes you turn the station to a liberal station and they do not say exactly what he just said.
		Thank you so much.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Susan, before you go, you said you're new to the program.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		How'd you find us?
unidentified		Well, in search of news, you know, I wanted to see news.
		I wanted to know what's going on in Washington, D.C.
		And I'm just so frustrated with all of the stations because they show entertainers and actors.
		And if I want to see entertainers and actors, I can watch entertainment tonight.
		I want news, and I'm really enjoying your show because it's all news.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Susan, there in Las Vegas, you know, the program calling us for the first time.
		Thanks for the call.
		Let's hear from Rudy.
		Rudy in Georgia, Democrats line.
		Hello, you're next up.
unidentified		Pedro, in 1995, I was deputy mayor for community affairs in Anderson, Indiana.
		That was the year Congressman McIntosh went into office, and we had a high crime problem.
		He being a Republican congressman and me being a Democratic deputy mayor, he marched with us.
		A group of kids from the Inniska City School, Shaitlin Elementary School.
		He marched through the streets of Anderson, Indiana with us, and he donated a computer to the school, and crime went down.
alex in northern virginia ▲ ● ▼		And I wanted to ask him, why can't we energize that type of cooperation again between Republicans and Democrats?
unidentified		I think that's where the missing link is.
		We override the crisis that's facing anywhere we may be in our country, and we let party lines stop us from joining hands.
		We marched together.
		It made statewide news.
		He put my name in the congressional records for those efforts.
		And I think we need to get back to that as a country.
		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Do you think it's possible in this day and age of politics for that to be repeated for what you experienced there with Georgia, with the congressman?
unidentified		I think so.
		I think what has happened is there's so much, so many media outlets making money on donations and the people who are listening in that it overrides what we call the common good.
		Now, being a Democratic deputy mayor, many people in City Hall didn't appreciate me walking hand hand with him, but the issue of stopping the balance mattered.
		And let me tell you what happened.
		We went from 16 homicides the previous year down to one.
		That's how effective it was.
		And the headlines in the newspaper, the Anderson Bulletin, said, What does it take to get to zero?
		So that bipartisan partnership had a positive impact.
		And we went from 16 homicides down to one in a city of 60,000.
		And the question was by Steve Bannon, who wrote an article in the paper, what does it take to get to zero?
		And when zero is the goal, we're on the right track.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Rudy in Georgia, giving us his thoughts this morning on this open forum: 202-748-8001 for Republicans, 202748, 8,000 for Democrats and Independents, 202-748-8002.
		USA Today in their money section under this headline, Forgiving Student Debt Quietly Restarts, saying the Education Department said in July it suspended forgiveness for income-based repayment plans to updated systems to accurately account for qualifying monthly payments.
		The IBR plan cancels outstanding loan debt for borrowers after they've made 240 or 300 monthly payments or about 20 to 25 years of payments, depending on the age of the loan.
		Updates are being completed and eligible borrowers will have their loans forgiven over the next several months unless they opt out, experts said.
		Education Department hasn't announced the debt cancellations, but industry experts report seeing and hearing about the emails notifying borrowers from the department earlier this month.
		We're there at USA Today.
		Let's hear from Patty.
		Patty joins us from Virginia Independent Line.
unidentified		Yes, thank you for taking my call.
		I always think that the issue that is government is shut down has to be clear to people.
		And up to now, we have always heard blame on each other that we really don't see it on the screen from each one of them that which area is a no-no by which party.
		I think they should do that in front of people.
		They should have it all put down that which area is the one you're talking about.
		And then those people who are really eligible to apply for Medicaid and Medicare, they should actually go in person to their state and prove it with their number, with their ID, whatever it's required.
		And on the other hand, if we don't get real, we always are running the opposite way.
		The reality is that Obamacare does not work for everyone.
		And the word Obama, according to this new administration, has to go.
		That's it.
		It has to go.
		It has to change.
		And some of your callers were right that they said Obama now is not a president, blah, blah, blah.
		But what are we doing here?
		Are we creating things so our name would stay as black or white or short or tall somewhere?
		Or are we just really helping the country?
		If this happened in a neighborhood, let's say, it would be very easy.
		Let's say the Doge type of thing would take which one is the area that is a gray area and which one is the area that they really, really need the Medicaid and Medicare.
		Okay.
		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Patty and Virginia, thank you.
		West Virginia next, Independent Line.
		Janelle, hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		This isn't nearly as important as all the tragedies that are going on in the world, but I was horrified yesterday to see pictures of the White House being torn down to put up a ballroom, a building that we don't need.
		I don't care who's paying for it.
		A building that is vulgar in appearance, it dwarfs the White House.
		And I want to know who has approved this and what gives Donald Trump the right to destroy the people's house.
		I read, and I don't know if it's true or not, that the building permits haven't been approved yet.
		And it just breaks my heart to see this man dismantling and destroying so much that is beautiful in this country.
		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		That's Janelle there in West Virginia on this open forum.
		Two stories from the Washington Times to show you.
		One deals with education, this by Valerie Richardson, saying that the Trump administration's invitation for nine elite universities to join the fledgling Compact for Academic Excellence continues to look like an offer they can refuse.
		Two more universities, Dartmouth and the University of Virginia, declined over the weekend to sign the 10-page compact, bringing to six the number that have taken a pass on the agreement aimed at combating DEI, foreign influence, and skyrocketing cost in higher education.
		The story explains a little bit about the Compact for Academic Excellence in Higher Education.
		It calls on universities to adopt merit-based versus race-based admissions and faculty hiring, keep foreign undergraduate enrollment below 15%, adopt biological definitions of male and female for private facilities and sports, and enact a five-year tuition freeze.
		The Washington Times, so you can find that story on the front page of the Washington Times.
		This by Ben Wolfgang saying, and they calling it an exclusive, saying top officers losing trust in Defense Secretary Pete Hegseeth, saying that numerous high-ranking officers painted Mr. Hegseff's September 30th speech to hundreds of generals and admirals gathered at Marine Corps Base Quantico in Virginia as a turning point in how his leadership style, attitude, and overall competency are viewed in the upper echelons of the U.S. Armed Forces.
		Quote, it was a massive waste of time.
		If he has ever had us, he lost us.
		That's one current Army general telling the Washington Times.
		This going on to say the Quantico speech, described by other sources as, quote, embarrassing and theatrical to a degree that is, quote, below our institution, seemed to crystallize beliefs about Mr. Hegseff that had taken root among some senior officers.
		It goes on from there.
		It's on their front page if you want to see it more at their website.
		Let's go to Dale, Dale in Alabama, Democrats line.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, everyone.
		The lady from, I believe it was West Virginia, took my thoughts away.
		When I was looking at Rachel Maddow last night and I saw pictures of the White House being torn down like it was torn down, he had a black hole come in and tear down the back of the White House.
		But if I wish you to show a picture of the Rose Garden, where he made, instead of keeping it as a Rose Garden, President Trump made it out of looking like an area where you go and sit down and have umbrellas and put pavement over it.
		And he's done so much, and I'm wondering where's this money coming from?
		Who's approving all of this?
		This just does not make any sense.
		And it's so many issues that I have.
		I just can't go into detail about everything, except for it was an embarrassment for Pete Hegsef to get up there and talk to the generals like he did.
		And I'm afraid they're doing our military so bad to, I don't know what's going to happen.
		And I am really disappointed in just a lot of things that's going on.
		And the tearing down of the White House couldn't wait.
		There are people that's out here really suffering.
		They're really suffering.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Dale there in Alabama.
		Again, the Rose Garden that the caller mentioned, the site of two events today later on in the afternoon, the president hosting lunch at the Rose Garden for Senate Republicans to talk about issues, including the shutdown.
		Later on in the evening, a dinner expected to take place at the Rose Garden as well.
		Stay tuned for that and other things to happen on our networks today.
		Just after this program, in less than an hour from now, the House Speaker expected to comment on the status of the shutdown.
		So you can see that right after this program.
		It was yesterday.
		The speaker asked about the swearing in or the pending swearing in of Arizona Democratic Representative-elect Adelita Grajalva and the lawsuits that has been placed against them about that from the Arizona Democratic Attorney General.
		Here's the speaker from yesterday.
unidentified		So Arizona Attorney General Chris Mays said over the weekend that she plans to file a lawsuit against you for not swearing any derico.
unidentified		Have you or your office spoken to her in the last couple of days about that and what's your response to that?
mike johnson ▲ ● ▼		Oh my goodness.
		Okay, yes.
		So yet another Democrat politician from Arizona is trying to get national publicity.
		So now it's the state AG who's going to sue me because Grahalva is not, Rep. Elect Grajalva is not yet sworn in.
		Let me go through this again for you and I have some updates.
		First of all, I'm following the Pelosi precedent.
		I was on some of the Sunday shows and was asked about this because this is all they have to talk about right now.
		When Julia Lettlow was elected under very similar circumstances to fill the seat of her deceased husband who passed away tragically by COVID, Nancy Pelosi, Speaker Pelosi at the time, took 25 days to administer the oath of office to her.
		It wasn't just Julia.
		The Pelosi president extends even further because when Pat Ryan and Joe Sempolinsky were elected during an August recess, they waited 21 days to administer the oath to those to rep elects because they were not in session.
		We are not in legislative session.
		The chronology is important.
		Rep. Grajalva won her race in the, I think it was the last week of September after we had already gone out of session.
		So I will administer the oath to her, I hope, on the first day we come back, legislative session.
		I'm willing and anxious to do that.
		In the meantime, instead of doing TikTok videos, she should be serving her constituents.
		She could be taking their calls.
		She can be directing them, trying to help them through the crisis that the Democrats have created by shutting down the government.
		Oh, and by the way, I also did find out this little tidbit that should be interesting to you.
		When a rep-elect comes in on a special election in particular, it is up to the leaders of her party, his or her party in the House, to give them guidance and direction.
		One of the first things they do is reach out to what we do is reach out, majority leader, or reaches out to the rep-elect and says, hey, welcome.
		Congratulations.
		Here's all the things you need to do.
		Here's the office of the chief administrative officer of the House, and they will help you get all of your computers set up and your passwords and all the rest.
		That call was apparently never made by Rep. Grajalva.
		And I don't know if the Democrat leader's office didn't inform her of that.
		But I found out this morning that the person who runs that office in the chief administrative office is on furlough because they voted to shut the government down.
		And so that person didn't reach out affirmatively, but now it's been sorted out.
		And I'm told they're going to her office today because she made a TikTok video saying that she couldn't use her computers.
		Well, she'll be able to use her computers now.
		Okay, she has 16 staffers.
		They need to be taking calls.
		They need to be helping their constituents, just as Republicans are out in their districts right now, helping them navigate the chaos that is created by Democrats who are playing political games.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Again, that was yesterday.
		The speaker expected to update his perspective on the shutdown just after 10 o'clock.
		Let's hear from Robert in New Jersey.
		Republican line, go ahead.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
		I'd like to comment on your previous guest, a suggestion he made that you don't want to try in America, and that's bringing in semi-finished products here to build.
		You don't really want to go that route.
		Spain did that, and they experience high inflation, low unemployment, and basically they're subsidizing Germany, France, and Italy's welfare programs that are built into the products that come in.
		And they charge a 30% consumption tax on top of that.
		Rather, what I suggest is that ExxonMobil buy the highway system in the United States along with and be allowed to tax and sell gasoline based on an economic plan that is made by accountants and not politicians.
		George W. Bush said there wasn't a refinery that was new to produce clean fuels since the 1970s.
		I don't think that's changed.
		And mass transit should be private, along with the rail passenger system in America, linked up with Uber with a monthly pass to augment the highway system and allow ExxonMobil, who has trade relations with many developing countries, to bring in the products, whether they're American or foreign-made, to this country.
		We want the very best here.
		Okay.
		Thank you and goodbye.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Let's hear from Steve.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Stephen, Ohio, Democrats line.
peter navarro ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
		Pedro, I'd like to ask you a question.
		If you had a toddler and you were at the airport and you had some bags carrying along and the toddler would not go on the escalator, what would you do?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sounds like a hypothetical question.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		How would you answer it?
unidentified		Well, you would pick up the child and you would carry them.
		That's what you would have to do.
		And the same thing goes on in America today.
		You have a toddler running the country, somebody that doesn't have responsibility at all.
		So my suggestion for Assistant is to ask this question.
		How many people in the United States of America are willing to split up amongst the Democratic states and the Republican states?
		Those that live in the Republican states that are Democrats would move to Democratic areas, and those that are Democrats living in Republican states would move to the Democratic areas.
		So ask that question of the people.
		Ask them.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Thank you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Steve in Ohio, there's a story in the Wall Street Journal this morning saying the president's 100,000 H-1B visa fee will only apply to new visa applicants outside the country.
		The government confirming it Monday in new guidance.
		That means under the new policy, employers won't need to pay the fee for anyone already living in the United States, such as international students under the new guidance published Monday.
		U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services said the $100,000 fee will apply only to applicants living outside the country.
		Employers will need to pay the fee after their prospective employer's visa is approved, allowing them to move to the United States.
		Previously, the White House had said the fee would apply to all new visa applicants except for those who work for companies or industries that have secured a special waiver.
		We're there at the Wall Street Journal.
		One more call on this open forum in New York, Independent Line.
		We'll hear from John.
unidentified		Good morning, Pedro.
		Once again, I appreciate everything you do.
		It was kind of hilarious to listen to Mike Johnson speak just now.
		He made reference to the government being shut down.
		You know, that's in session.
		Who was it that took the government out of session?
		It was Mike Johnson himself.
		Essentially, what it amounted to, you know, was the fact that The Democrats were to see even from the beginning.
		They were there in Washington, D.C.
		But Mike Johnson taught MNA fellow colleagues and the Republican Natal majority at Dona Knot.
		Personally, for him to turn around and watch McCall out there.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		John there in New York, finishing off this open forum.
		Thanks for those of you who participated.
		If you watch PBS on a regular basis, you know that their frontline unit puts out films on a variety of topics.
		Their latest one deals with the current Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
		The Rise of RFK Jr. is the latest film.
		Michael Weiser, our producer and writer on that film, joins us next to talk about it.
		Washington Journal continues.
unidentified		Watch America's Book Club, C-SPAN's bold new original series.
		Sunday, with our guest, Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett, only the fifth woman to serve on the high court and author of the book, Listening to the Law.
		She joins our host, renowned author and civic leader, David Rubinstein.
david rubenstein ▲ ● ▼		And what do you hope most people will take away from your book?
justice amy coney barrett ▲ ● ▼		I think what I want them to take away from the book is that they should be proud of the court.
justice amy coney barrett ▲ ● ▼		And I want them to be able, I want them to understand the way the court grapples with the legal questions that matter to the country.
unidentified		Watch America's Book Club with Justice Amy Coney Barrett.
unidentified		Sunday at 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Why are you doing this?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		This is outrageous.
unidentified		This is a kangaroo court.
		Fridays, C-SPAN presents a rare moment of unity.
		Ceasefire, where the shouting stops and the conversation begins.
		Politico Playbook chief correspondent and White House Bureau Chief Dasha Burns is host of Ceasefire, bringing two leaders from opposite sides of the aisle into a dialogue.
		Ceasefire on the network that doesn't take sides.
		Fridays at 7 and 10 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN.
		America marks 250 years, and C-SPAN is there to commemorate every moment, from the signing of the Declaration of Independence to the voices shaping our nation's future.
		We bring you unprecedented all-platform coverage, exploring the stories, sights, and spirit that make up America.
		Join us for remarkable coast-to-coast coverage, celebrating our nation's journey like no other network can.
		America 250.
		Over a year of historic moments, only on the C-SPAN networks.
		Washington Journal continues.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Michael Weiser is a producer and writer for PBS Frontline, their latest work, The Rise of RFK Jr.
		He joining us on the program to talk about it.
		Mr. Weiser, good morning.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for having me.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		What got you interested in the topic?
unidentified		Well, there's no question that RFK Jr. is one of the most interesting and powerful people in Washington.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		And as the new Trump administration was coming in, we were looking for a story to tell.
		And our company is really drawn to everybody who I work with.
		We're all drawn to this idea of understanding our times through biography, through understanding how people like RFK Jr. have risen to power, what they represent, what it is that they're tapping into.
		And even though he's somebody who's been in the limelight since literally the day that he was born, we found that the story of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. was far more complicated, far more interesting than I think most people understand.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And I suppose that when people see the Kennedy name, they probably assume a lot of things.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		But when it comes to the story you wanted to tell, what's the central theme, if you had to boil it down to that?
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's interesting that you that you mentioned the Kennedy name because he has that from the very beginning.
		And I think that this the story that we were telling here was of somebody who, in a lot of ways, his rise to power was obvious.
		He comes out of the Kennedy family.
		He has the same name as his father, the beloved Robert F. Kennedy Sr.
		But in a lot of ways, he's also a very unlikely figure, someone who it seemed incredible that they would rise to become one of the most powerful cabinet members in Donald Trump's administration, somebody whose life was marked by scandal, by ridicule, as he embraced the vaccine skepticism.
		And yet he's somebody who's managed to rise.
		And so in our story, we were trying to understand how do you resolve all of the different ways of understanding who Bobby Kennedy is?
		How did he rise to power?
unidentified		What does it tell us about America today?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		How much of Mr. Kennedy's experience as a child with the assassination of his father, his uncle, how much do you think shapes what he eventually becomes?
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		I think there's no way to understand his life without understanding that terrible tragedy, which was a national tragedy, but it was also a personal tragedy for Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who was a young boy when his father, who was running for president at the time, was assassinated.
		And in that moment, I think two crucial things happen to him.
		One is that he's dealing with what any kid who loses their father would have to deal with.
unidentified		And in this case, his mom, who's pregnant with their 11th kid, is struggling to help the family.
unidentified		He's sent off to boarding school only a few months after his dad is assassinated.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		We talked to one of his classmates in high school who said that the Bobby Kennedy that he knew was a lost soul was the words that he used to describe him.
		And it begins a period of drug use and behavior that his friends told us he indicated that it seemed like he didn't care whether he lived or died.
		And so he's dealing with this tragedy as a human, as a kid, but at the same time, he's dealing with the fact that this is all happening in the limelight, that his father was beloved.
		We spoke to his cousin, Stephen Kennedy Smith, who talked about being on the train that's carrying his dad's body and seeing all of the crowds lined up outside mourning for his dad.
		And from a very early age, RFK Jr. has this idea that there's a mantle that he needs to pick up, that somehow there's an expectation of others and that he puts on himself that he's going to pick up his dad's legacy, that somehow he's going to try to live up to the martyr that his dad was.
		And so I think those two things happening at the same time with his dad's death, not to say anything of his uncle's assassination also, really do shape him and set in motion the life story that we explore in the film.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		The film is The Rise of RFK Jr. Michael Weiser here to talk about it.
		And if you want to ask him questions, 202-748-8001 for Republicans, 202-748-8000 for Democrats and Independents, 202748-8002.
		You can text your questions too at 202-748-8003.
		Mr. Weiser, we're going to show our folks at home a section of the film that starts off.
		It's that conversation, the initial one between Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and President Trump shortly after his assassination attempt in Butler, Pennsylvania.
		We'll show that to you and then we'll talk about that.
calley means ▲ ● ▼		I felt a spiritual urge to call Bobby and put on his radar that this might be the time to call President Trump.
		And Bobby, after some reflection, thought that was a good idea.
		And I worked with Tucker Carlson, who connected Bobby to President Trump as he was leaving the hospital.
unidentified		It just turned my head to show the job.
		And something wrapped me.
		It sounded like a giant, like the world's largest mosquito.
calley means ▲ ● ▼		I think a real relationship between the two men was forged on that first night.
unidentified		And it was.
		It was a bullet loader.
		You know, what did they call that?
		An AR-15 or something.
		That was a big gun.
		Those are some pretty tough guns, right?
del bigtree ▲ ● ▼		Bobby asked about his family, having grown up with assassination, his own family.
		He said, this can be very traumatic for your kids and your grandkids.
		How's everybody doing?
		Trump said, I appreciate you asking Bobby.
		You know, everyone's doing okay under the circumstances.
		President Trump then said to Bobby, I'm glad you called, Bobby.
		I've been wanting to talk to you.
unidentified		We should really work together.
		I would love you to do stuff.
		And I think it would be so good for New York and so good for you.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Weiser, only a sliver of the film, but there it's the starting point.
		Elaborate on that.
		What's important to know going from that point forward?
unidentified		That's really a crucial moment in everything that would happen after.
		That moment of the assassination attempt on former President Trump at the time, candidate Trump, was really a turning point.
		At that point, RFK Jr.'s presidential campaign was really in trouble.
		His polling was in the single digits, and it looked like there was a chance he wouldn't even be affecting the outcome of the election.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		But in the wake of that assassination attempt, he makes a personal connection with Donald Trump and reaches out.
unidentified		And as we talked about, assassination and political violence were something that he knew personally.
unidentified		Those people around us told us that that was the reason for the call.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		But on that call, Trump uses that moment to reach out to tell Bobby Kennedy that he thinks that there's a chance for an alliance, that if he can join onto his team, he'll have a chance at having power inside the Trump administration, that he has something to offer him.
unidentified		And clearly, that's something that he begins to think about.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		And as we discuss, as those who know him discuss in the film, there was a lively debate inside the RFK Jr. camp about whether to make that alliance with Donald Trump.
		He was warned by close advisors, even members of his own family, that it was a risky thing to do, that they weren't sure if they could trust Donald Trump.
		And some of his advisors told us they weren't sure that they believed that Donald Trump represented the things that RFK Jr. stood for.
		But in the end, he saw a chance to get power in Washington, a chance to move on an agenda that he had been building for decades.
unidentified		And it was a risk he was willing to take.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		A viewer off of X asked, in all the interviews that you did, did you have a chance to talk with RFK Jr.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		We did not.
unidentified		We were not able to talk to him, but we were able to talk to a lot of people around him.
		We talked to close advisors on the campaign.
		We talked to people who had joined with him early on in the vaccine movement that he had embraced.
		We talked to family members and to friends who had known him from a young age.
		And I think that putting all of those things together revealed an interesting portrait of who he is.
		And we also, throughout the film, did our best without having an interview with him to hear from him both his own words and things that he had written and also things that he had said along the way.
		So I think by putting all of those things together, you really do get a complete corporate, complete portrait of the complexity of RFK Jr.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Michael Weiser joining us for this conversation.
		Our first call is from New York Independent Line.
		This is Jeff of PBS Frontlines with PBS Frontlines, Michael Weiser.
		Jeff, good morning.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Good morning, Pedro.
		Thank you, Mr. Weiser, for your documentary.
		I look forward to seeing it tonight.
		I'd like to point out that Mr. Kennedy has been a longtime vaccine skeptic.
		And for example, he recently replaced the expert members of the CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices with vaccine skeptics.
		And this is just part and parcel of a dismantling of the entire public health infrastructure that he has orchestrated.
		For example, he canceled $11 billion in funding for state and local public health departments in an already underfunded department long before he came into February into the office.
		He dismantled public health agencies.
		He's forced out the leadership of thousands of workers and scientists.
		And he's destabilizing the entire scientific NIH enterprise by doing so.
		People are leaving the agency.
		They're going elsewhere because they can't depend on the NIH for their jobs and their talent is going to go somewhere else.
		And we can't redo that type of research in a flash when the next president comes and appoints somebody else.
		That information, that knowledge is going to be lost for generations at least.
		Okay.
		Can I just say one more thing, Pedro?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Quickly, please.
unidentified		Yeah.
		So my point here is to point this out.
		I think people know this, a lot of people know this, but I would like to offer a solution to this kind of problem.
		This will only take a moment, Pedro.
		Bear with me.
		I want to compare this to the consumer financial.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Caller, I apologize.
		We're going to have to move on only because I think it goes a little further than what we want.
		Mr. Weiser, those are the modern day effects of having Mr. Kennedy in the office.
		What can you add to that?
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		One of the things that's interesting, we spoke to people on both sides of this.
		As I said, we talked to people who were close to him and who were close to him in the vaccine, the skeptical, in the movement, skeptical of vaccines, and they were cheering on what he was doing.
		One of his close advisors from the campaign told us that the analogy that he has is that the America's health system is in the ER and you need doctors around who are going to fix things and they needed Bobby Kennedy to be in charge.
		We also spoke to a number of CDC scientists and doctors who told us that they were alarmed by what they were seeing from inside the agency.
unidentified		That when they came in, there was some hope that they might be able to debate the evidence with him.
		But what they found over the months that they were there was that he was implementing an agenda, in their view, that he had come into office with, and that he wasn't open to the science that they wanted to present to them.
		And a number of key scientists have left and have raised alarms about what's happening with vaccines and also about the capabilities that the agency has.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And Mr. Weiser, your film takes a look at a centerpiece when it comes to Mr. Kennedy's viewpoints, centering around an article that took place in Rolling Stone magazine.
		It was published also on Salon.
		How does that fit into the Kennedy philosophy?
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		That article is really an interesting moment.
unidentified		He had rebuilt his life as an environmental activist and an environmental lawyer.
unidentified		And he sort of, as the story is told, reluctantly gets into the idea that there might be a connection between vaccines and autism.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		We spoke to some advocates of that movement who helped to recruit him, who actually moms who had been involved in this cause went up to him after he was speaking about mercury and water and said, you need to take up this cause.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		And he took it up knowing that it was controversial and wrote this article in Rolling Stone and Salon Magazine.
unidentified		And over the years after it was published, scientist after scientist objected to what he had written.
		There were retractions and changes to the article.
		And eventually the entire article on the Salon website was retracted.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		And what people who knew him told us was that that was a key moment for him doubling down on this issue of vaccines, that rather than backing off and saying there were mistakes in the article, he was determined to prove that there weren't mistakes in the article, that he was right.
unidentified		He would write an entire book.
unidentified		He would begin to dedicate much of his life to this issue of vaccines.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Let's go to Jim.
		Jim is in California Democrats line.
		You're next up.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Can you hear me?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		You're on.
		Go ahead.
		Yes, please.
unidentified		Yeah, I don't mean this comment to be insensitive to people with neurological disorders.
		I used to work to do videos for a special education publisher.
		But I think because of RFK Jr.'s condition of dysphonia, I think he would have been much better to do his public service behind the scenes.
		There's all kinds of ways he could have done that to honor his father, who I had enormous respect for.
		And people don't want to talk about this because it seems to be insensitive.
		But I think what he comes across as putting his ego in front of the message that he's trying to say.
		So, Ben, thank you for doing a show on him.
		I have enormous respect for Frontline.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Jim in California, and Mr. Weiser, it was during the interview.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		I think some of the people that you interviewed said something along the lines, and I don't mean it's a negative, a savior complex in a sense, a heroic complex that makes up his DNA, which leads him to do the things he does.
unidentified		That's right.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		It's interesting because it's something that those who are closest to him identify and also the critics of him identify, which is that he really believes in this cause.
		He believes that he's up against evil forces and that he's in a unique place to battle against them.
		And I think part of that comes from that early tragedy, from that sense that his uncle and his dad were martyred.
unidentified		He writes in his book about this idea that the world is a battle between good and evil, and that if he can have a place in it, that is what he wants.
		And you do get a sense of almost messianic. a view of the role that he plays.
		He talks repeatedly about praying that he would be in a position of power where he could change these things.
		So I think that that comes from the very early, early days of Bobby Kennedy.
		And as I said, it's something that his admirers point out and they say, this is a guy who's willing to sacrifice his reputation, his relationships with his family, who's willing to be ridiculed for something that he believes.
		And some of the scientists that we talked to said that this is a guy who is not open to contrary evidence, who is so sure of himself that he's not able to engage with the science.
		So it's an aspect of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. that I think both his critics and admirers identify and understand in different ways.
		It's part of what makes him such an interesting character.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Another Californian calling in.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		This is Austin, Republican Mine.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hey, good morning, Pedro.
		Good morning, Mr. Weiser.
		Yeah, I just wanted to ask Mr. Weiser what he thinks.
		I think it's his relationship, Trump's relationship with RFK is purely transactional, that he's, that he's, that RFK is pandering to his base of cuckoos and conspiracy theorists and that he knows that and that.
		So that's just gonna, you know, get his, get his base more riled up, and that's that's.
		I don't think he really believes anything that RFK says.
		He's just interested in rallying up his base, Austin in California.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Weiser, I think it's interesting we didn't talk to a lot of people about what Donald Trump's motivations are, and and certainly that's that's one way of understanding Donald Trump's politics he's a guy who's, who's very adaptable and to the political moment.
unidentified		But we did talk to a lot of people about the calculation that Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		Made in making that decision to join up with Donald Trump, and I think also, in a sense, it was a transactional decision, that he, when he found himself at a point where his presidential ambitions were likely to go nowhere, had to make a decision about what was likely to give him the most power in order to be able to do what it was that he wanted to do.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		And those around him had no illusions about who Donald Trump was, what they thought of Donald Trump, the skepticism that they had uh the fear that he could turn on uh Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
unidentified		When it didn't.
unidentified		It didn't serve him anymore to be allied with him, but they felt that it was a risk that they were willing to take for what they believed in and for the cause that Bobby Kennedy believed in.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Rossi, you talked about the wrestling that took place within the RFK junior camp to make the decision to join the Trump team.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Talk about the reaction from the Kennedy family writ large.
unidentified		For the members of the Kennedy family it had been.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		It was not just the decision to endorse Donald Trump the the the, the divide inside the family and while they may some of them may be close personally still, but the political divide between them had dated back to the vaccine movement, dated back to Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		Raising questions about the assassination of his father, going so far as to meet with the man convicted of killing his dad and saying that he should be released.
unidentified		And inside the family, that was a point of division.
		And when he announced that he was going to leave the Democratic Party, it was another point of division.
		And in fact, the family orchestrated a photo op to endorse, show their support for Joe Biden in a very public rebuke of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
		And so certainly the endorsement of Donald Trump was something that for a lot of members of the Kennedy family was a break with their tradition and with the family's tradition of being one of the most storied families inside the Democratic Party.
		But that was a split that had been going on for a while.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		And those close to Bobby Kennedy say that he understood that that was going to be one of the consequences of the path that he pursued.
unidentified		And to some extent, that opposition from the family, from others in the Democratic Party establishment, only drove him further and made him more convinced that he needed to pursue what he was pursuing.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		You may have said this already, but how many of the Kennedy family members did you have a chance to talk to about this film?
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		We interviewed Stephen Kennedy Smith, and we also in the film draw on statements from other members of the family.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		The family is very reluctant to talk internally.
unidentified		There's almost a code inside the Kennedy family that you don't talk about other members of the Kennedy family.
unidentified		So it's something that's very difficult.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		Of course, when Caroline Kennedy, his cousin, came out before the confirmation hearing of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to describe her concerns about him, both personal concerns and concerns about him as a leader.
unidentified		It was a very public break.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		But it takes a lot for the Kennedy family to go out publicly and to talk about somebody else who's in the family, which I think tells you a lot about just how far they see Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as having gone.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Let's hear from David.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		David joins us from Pennsylvania, Republican line with Michael Weiser of PBS Frontline.
unidentified		Hello.
		Good morning, gentlemen.
		Imagine who would be president of the United States right now if the DNC had allowed a true open primary of which RFK Jr. was trying to get into.
		He had qualified in some states and he had the door slammed on him by the power brokers of the Democratic Party.
		He didn't give or get the full choice of the people of the United States that are members of the Democratic Party.
		They slapped him down.
		And what do you think would happen when he was given the opportunity by Donald Trump to join his cause and try and push his agendas that he truly believes are good for America and Americans?
		You know, 12 years ago, as latest as that, California was the leading anti-vax state.
		You can go back at the newsreels and stuff.
		They didn't believe anybody should get vaccinations, not even the MMR, the most basic.
		And Robert F. Kennedy Jr. constantly brought up about the additives in the vaccine.
		If you look at veterinarian vaccines for dogs and cats and other animals, they don't even have a fraction of what the chemicals are in human vaccines.
		And it just unnerved him.
		And as far as his family went, his family put the Democratic Party ahead of him, RFK Jr.
		And he's just fed up with the way they're treating because they're putting the Democratic Party, just like the current administration, the Democrats are, are putting themselves ahead of America.
		Okay.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		David in Pennsylvania.
		Mr. Weiser, he brought up COVID.
		You say in the film or at least you show in the film, it was during the COVID vaccine that Robert F. Kennedy really was a pioneer in the sense that he went to social media to talk about his concerns.
		Elaborate on that.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		It's really impossible to understand the rise of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and the political moment I think that our entire country is in if you don't understand what happened during that COVID period.
unidentified		It was a time of great fear.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		It was a time where scientists didn't understand this new disease, where the guidance that was coming from the government seemed to change by the week.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		It was a time when the government was recommending and requiring measures to contain the disease that many people saw as authoritarian.
unidentified		And we talked to scientists who were involved in making those decisions, who were there at the time.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		And almost all of them told me that they do feel like in that moment, in the heat of the moment of responding to COVID, they did things that they wouldn't have done if they had it to do over again.
unidentified		They would have communicated differently.
		They would have included the public more in the kinds of decisions that were made.
		But it generated a lot of anger in the American public that felt like their freedoms were being restricted.
		And that was a moment when Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who had been really engaged in the issue of childhood vaccines, something that affects families and kids, was able to tap into a much larger audience.
		Suddenly, with the issue of COVID, everybody in the country was paying attention to what was going on with the health system.
		Suddenly, when the COVID vaccine is released and it's recommended for adults and in some cases, required for employment.
		Now, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. had a much larger audience that was willing to listen to what it was that he had to say about vaccines.
		And it really propelled him into the political conversation in a way that he hadn't been before.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And you said that at some of the outlets, he wouldn't go to traditional outlets.
		He went to more podcasting to so he had the ability to make his thoughts without being interrupted.
		And I'm paraphrasing.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		I mean, part of what drove him into politics also was the pushback that he got.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		He opposed the COVID vaccine.
		He found himself deplatformed at a time when the Biden administration was fighting what they called a misinformation.
		He found when he was running as a candidate for president that the interviews that he did were being edited to take out claims that the networks or others felt were not supported by the evidence.
unidentified		And what he found was that in a new media environment, he was able to go directly to people.
		He could go on podcasts and talk for hours uninterrupted or back and forth without being fact-checked.
		And that was an outlet that really benefited him in being able to further the message he was trying to send and his own political strengths.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		A discussion with Michael Weiser of PBS Frontline on the rise of RFK Jr., a new film out today, if I recall.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		It will be streaming and also broadcast on PBS tonight.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Let's go to Greg.
		Greg in Nebraska, Independent Line, you're on with our guests.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I'm happy that RFK is doing the work that he's doing.
		There's a lot of misinformation that came out during the COVID.
		And people are concerned about taking injections and things.
		And you have all the scientists getting together who are actually paid by these agencies to make certain statements about how the strengths of the virus and how the vaccine was the only answer and where they forced everybody into it.
		It's a scary thing.
		And the fact that he's looking into the foods and things, you know, we have to have, we buy it from the same companies, but get a different type of food than Europeans do.
		This is the type of thing that makes people wonder what's going on.
		And it's not a conspiracy to hear that, you know, that people have, would rather hear an open, honest look into things and have somebody come out and make some, you know, reveal some things about the vaccines and the food additives and things like that.
		So I'm happy with RFK.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		That's Greg in Nebraska.
		Mr. Weiser.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		I mean, crucial to RFK Jr.'s message and what the caller was talking about is an idea that he has pushed, which is that the federal agencies that he now oversees are corrupt, that he believes that they're in the pocket of big pharma, as he would say, and that the decisions they're made are driven by self-interest.
		And one of the journalists we talked to pointed out that if you think about it, that allegation is a profound one.
		The idea that our nation's top doctors are, according to the things that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has said, poisoning children for their own benefit.
unidentified		When we talk to the scientists who worked at those agencies, you won't be surprised that they saw things very differently, that they said that they were driven into medicine to cure people,
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		that they work in hospitals where they see the effects of what happens when kids and others are not protected by vaccines, and that the disclosures and other requirements that they have to make as federal government employees offers a level of transparency for anybody who wants to look at it and really investigate, you know, any of them individually, where did the money come from?
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		So it's two very different views of these agencies from inside them and from the man who's now leading those agencies.
unidentified		And it's led to a lot of tension, especially after the shooting at the CDC, where a number of the scientists and doctors that work there that we spoke to felt like he didn't defend the agency and he didn't stand up against what they saw as misinformation that was endangering lives in their view.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Weiser, there are stories out in the last couple of days about journalist Olivia Nuzzy, who's about to publish a book about RFK Jr., a sexing scandal because of that, also part of the history that you look at in his life.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Can you elaborate what your film touches on?
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		I mean, throughout his life, there has been scandal and there has been scandal around this very issue of infidelity, whether I guess whether texting is or not, I'll leave to others to decide.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		But at the height of his popularity as an environmental activist, his personal life was thrust into the limelight when his second wife committed suicide and diaries or journals that he had kept were published in the papers and listed sort of relationships that he had had outside of his
unidentified		marriage.
		And he said that it was part of his attempt of recovery to deal with issues that he had around addiction.
		But it definitely tainted him in terms of his political aspirations, in terms of the people, the reputation that he had built on the East Coast.
		And so these are issues that have been around for a long time.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		And the latest book and the sort of scandal that came out during the campaign and allegations about inappropriate relationship or inappropriate advances on a babysitter that also came up in the campaign are part of his story and are something that he has been dealing with and responding to for decades.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Whether it be that or his drug use or his personal beliefs that always seems he can rise above it.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Is that because of the Kennedy name or are there other elements to the man himself that make that possible?
unidentified		There's no question that the Kennedy name has helped him to get as far as he has.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		That time and again, whether it was getting into Harvard after cycling through three boarding schools and dealing with drugs or getting attention for his cause, whether it be environmental cause or the vaccine cause, or even running for president as a Democrat, the name helped him.
unidentified		But there is something about who Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is that makes him unique.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		There is a willingness to push through, to rebuild, despite, you know, no matter what the humiliation is, no matter what the ridicule is, no matter what the defeat is, there is a certainty that he has, that his cause is right, that he's willing to sacrifice his personal friendships when he embraced the vaccine cause.
unidentified		We are told that he had trouble, his sort of social calendar fell apart as lifelong friends avoided him.
		We talked about his family splitting with him.
		So there is something that is about who he is and about a willingness to push through no matter what the circumstance that is part of who Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is and it is part of how he's gotten to this point of power that he has now.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And one of the interviewers, I think, said that, or interviewee said that the ability to compartmentalize too was his gift or a strength for his as far as getting through things.
unidentified		That's right.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		And that's something that you saw in the early stages of his life when he was dealing with a drug addiction at the same time that he was going to Harvard and writing a senior thesis that became published as a book and was on television promoting it as a young man.
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		And that duality between the two parts of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. are something that has defined him to this day.
unidentified		And that ability to compartmentalize one part of his life from another is a theme that we found throughout his life.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		We have about less than a minute left of the things we've talked about a lot of topics.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		What was the most interesting aspect of putting this together for you?
michael kirk ▲ ● ▼		I think the most interesting thing about Robert F. Kennedy was the fact that he's such a complicated figure.
		And yet, as I said, both the critics and his admirers really do see sort of the same person.
		And he's such a unique figure in Washington, especially in Donald Trump's Washington.
		There's not a lot of other powerful figures who have built their own brand, the Maha brand, that have their own base of support, that have their own issues, that have survived inside the Trump world.
unidentified		Elon Musk may have tried, but Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is the one who has survived.
unidentified		And that's a pretty remarkable thing.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		The rise of RFK Jr. is the film from PBS Frontline.
		It appears tonight.
		You can find it on a variety of platforms.
		Michael Weiser, the producer and writer for the film.
		Mr. Weiser, thanks for your time.
unidentified		Thanks for having me.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Several things going on in and around Washington today.
		The president expected to have lunch with Senate Republicans at the Rose Garden, talk about issues, including the shutdown, a dinner expected tonight as well at the Rose Garden.
		The House is out.
		The members are back in their home districts, while leadership still is in Washington.

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