CSPAN - Washington Journal 10/17/2025

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Oct. 17, 2025 07:00-10:00 - CSPAN

02:59:57

Washington Journal 10/17/2025

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Main

greta brawner

cspan 38:08

hakeem jeffries

rep/d 06:08

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andrew cuomo

01:04

barbara fisher

00:34

chris wright

01:16

chuck schumer

sen/d 01:54

donald j trump

admin 04:15

john thune

sen/r 02:13

mike johnson

rep/r 02:05

zohran mamdani

d 02:40

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cliven bundy

00:20

dasha burns

politico 00:08

david rubenstein

00:08

john grisham

00:17

tim kaine

sen/d 00:10

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bill in north carolina

callers 00:11

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Coming up on C-SPAN's Washington Journal, the president of the American Federation of Teachers, Randy Weingarten, discusses the government shutdown and her new book, Why Fascists Fear Teachers, Public Education and the Future of Democracy.
		And Manhattan Institute Senior Fellow Rafael Mangual on the Trump administration's efforts to crack down on violent crime nationwide.
		Washington Journal starts now.
john thune ▲ ● ▼		This is politics.
john thune ▲ ● ▼		If anything was needed to demonstrate just how fundamentally uninterested Democrats are in supporting our troops and defending our country, just take a look at this vote.
chuck schumer ▲ ● ▼		Republicans can talk all the political stuff they want.
chuck schumer ▲ ● ▼		We're on the side of the American people because they need help.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		The Senate leaders squaring off yesterday as Democrats blocked for the 10th time a bill to end the government shutdown over health care policy.
		Ending the third work week here in Washington, where it began, in a shutdown stalemate.
		This morning, your thoughts on the government shutdown as we enter day 17 here in Washington.
		Republicans dial in at 202-748-8001.
		Democrats 202-748-8000.
		And Independents 202-748-8002.
		If you don't want to call, you can text at 202-748-8003.
		Include your first name, city, and state, or join us on facebook.com slash C-SPAN or on X with the handle at C-SPANWJ.
		Good morning, everyone.
		We want to get your thoughts on day 17 of the government shutdown.
		What is your message to these lawmakers and the president?
		Take a look at a recent poll that was conducted recently and it found who is responsible for the shutdown?
		58% said President Trump.
		58% said Congressional Republicans.
		And 54% said congressional Democrats.
		We want to know your thoughts on that poll.
		Who is responsible for this shutdown?
		And what's your message to Washington?
		Because the Senate has left town, the House has not been in town since mid-September, and next week it looks like the government shutdown will continue.
		Yesterday on the Senate floor, here's the Washington Post reporting this morning with the headline, Senate blocks military spending bill as shutdown drags on.
		Senate Democrats blocked a $852 billion bill that would fund the Defense Department through September, rejecting Republican efforts to approve individual full-year spending bills as the government shutdown stretches into its third week.
		The vote was seen as a litmus test for Democrats who have been pushing Republicans to agree to extend health care subsidies in exchange for reopening the federal government.
		Just three Democrats voted with Republicans to advance the bill.
		Senators Gene Shaheen of New Hampshire, John Fetterman of Pennsylvania, and Catherine Cortez-Mastow of Nevada.
		The bill fell 10 votes short of advancing, indicating that most Democrats were unwilling to weaken their negotiating position or break from leadership, even as the Trump administration redirects funds to pay active duty troops and seeks to lay off furloughed federal workers.
		Listen to Senate Majority Leader John Thune, Republican of South Dakota, on the floor talking about this vote on the defense bill, as well as that 10th vote to open up the government.
john thune ▲ ● ▼		Well, Mr. President, the Democrat Party is the party that will not take yes for an answer.
		We offer Democrats a clean, nonpartisan CR, no Republican policies for them to swallow, nothing for them to object to.
		They said no.
		We offer to accommodate their health care demands by guaranteeing them a vote on their proposal if they vote to reopen the government.
		The answer is no.
		Okay, fine.
		So we thought if they don't want to fund the government via continuing resolution, we'll give them the chance to fund the government a different way by attempting to move forward with regular order appropriations bills.
		And once again, the answer was no.
		Democrats just voted to block the fiscal year 2026 Defense Appropriations Bill.
		A bill, I would add, that passed the Senate Appropriations Committee by a robust bipartisan margin.
		26 to 3, I think it was.
		That's right, Mr. President.
		After voting last week for an authorization bill to increase troop pay, Democrats just voted against the bill that would actually pay the troops.
		We have to ask the question why, Mr. President.
		Because to quote a recent news story, this is a direct quote, voting to proceed with the defense bill relinquishes some of the party's leverage, end quote.
		Relinquishes some of the party's leverage.
		I mean, who really cares, right?
		If the troops are paid as long as the Democrats are able to get what they want.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Senator John Thune, the Republican leader in the Senate, on the floor.
		Now, what does he have planned for next week?
		Take a look at Punch Bull's reporting this morning.
		The Senate is expected to vote next week on a GOP proposal to pay federal employees who've been forced to work without pay during the shutdown, including the military.
		Senate Republicans will also keep forcing votes on the November 21st CR.
		That's the clean, continuing resolution that passed in the House.
		This is a shift for Thune, who had previously resisted these piecemeal efforts as he pushed for Democrats to back the stopgap funding bill.
		But tensions are flaring in the Senate, and Thune wants to put Democrats on the spot.
		Nathaniel and Mississippi Democratic caller, what's your message to these lawmakers?
unidentified		They should do their job.
		We got all this talking and going on back and forth, but don't make no sense.
		I need you to show this clip in 2020, I think, when Trump and Chuck Schumer was in the Oval Office and they was talking about shutting the government down.
		Trump said out of his own mouth.
		I will.
		If I'm going to get what I want, I will shut the governor down.
		That ain't no talk for a president to say.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that Oval Office meeting with Chuck Schumer, I think the one that you're referring to, and the Speaker of the House at the time, Nancy Pelosi, was also there on the couch in the Oval Office.
		And that was in 2018.
		You can find that if you go to our video library.
		Go to c-span.org.
		Go to the search engine at the top, and it's right there for you and others to watch.
		Let's go to Lucas in Allenton, Missouri, Democratic caller.
		Lucas.
unidentified		Hi.
		I would like to say, first of all, I think the House should be back in session.
		They're working on our tax dollars while not getting anything done.
		They should present more than two CRs to the Senate.
		You're not going to get a vote like Iran Paul if you don't fix that.
		And they should try rewriting it.
		Mike Johnson should come back.
		I get it.
		He will have to swear Adelita Grahalda, but they should be working.
		We pay them.
		They should be working.
		And both parties are responsible for this shutdown.
		People don't seem to notice that, yes, Democrats have to negotiate.
		They have to agree.
		So in that way, they are responsible while Republicans have to do the negotiations.
		And if really needed, they have the nuclear option.
		They are not taking these measures.
		And both parties are to blame.
		There's not one single party.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Lucas's thoughts there in Missouri calling for the House to come back.
		They have not been in Washington for nearly a month.
		Speaker Johnson has said he's not going to call them back because he's not going to negotiate with Democrats on opening up the government.
		He will, he said, negotiate with them after they open up the government.
		Let's listen to Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York yesterday talking about government shutdown.
chuck schumer ▲ ● ▼		So Hakeem and I just had another really good meeting and we're on the same page.
		The American people are in a crisis in health care and we are fighting for them.
		We are on their side.
		The American people are seeing that we are on their side doing everything we can to get the Republicans to negotiate and address this crisis.
		And it is devastating.
		People every day are getting notices from their insurance companies in their states.
		The average American on ACA could see their costs double, even triple.
		And that's in red states, that's in blue states, that's in every state.
		I just talked about a person in the North Country, Stefanik's district, who now pays $2,800 for health care.
		He'll have to pay $20,000.
		What is a family going to do when they see that to have health care, to keep their health care insurance, they got to come up with $20,000?
unidentified		What do they do?
chuck schumer ▲ ● ▼		What do they tell their children that they can't go to the doctors they've been seeing?
		What do they do if someone has cancer and is cut off from treatment?
		What do they do if their hospital closes and another hospital is 100 miles away and they can't get to their doctors?
		So the American people are facing one of the most devastating crises they have faced in terms of cost.
		And we still have not heard crickets out of any negotiation with Johnson or with Thune.
		The Republicans are on the defensive.
		They keep changing their stories and changing their arguments.
		But we are on the side of the American people.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Democratic leader Chuck Schumer yesterday, not Sunday, yesterday in the Capitol standing shoulder to shoulder with his counterpart in the House, Hakeem Jeffries of New York, saying the two of them are on the same page.
		They want Republicans to come to the table and negotiate over these Affordable Care Act tax subsidies, the ones that were extended or enhanced during COVID-19 when Democrats controlled Washington.
		Kent near Illinois, Republican, your turn, Kent.
unidentified		Let's just say for sake of argument that Schumer's telling the truth.
		And a person needs $20,000 of taxpayer money to pay for an insurance.
		That's never worked.
		There ain't enough money in the world to make Obamacare work.
		There never was.
		And it was known that Obamacare was designed to make all other insurance companies go away and the government do everything.
		Schumer's afraid he's going to get challenged.
		That's the big idea.
		But here, if a person needs $20,000 now, a taxpayer money, how much is he going to need next time?
		You just can't say, okay, we're going to close everything down because 10, 20 million people are going to have insurance premiums raised on a premium that's never, ever going to work.
		And then the idea that Schumer and the Democrats, they voted for this same thing that the House has done.
		What the world would the House need to come back for?
		The House has already done it and sent it to the Senate.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Kent, let me get your take on Punch Bowls reporting this morning.
		They say this, that inside the House Republican leadership, the belief is that somewhere between 20% and 30% of GOP lawmakers would be open to extending the tax credits for ACA at the heart of the government shutdown.
		The House has been out of session for the last 28 days, so it's impossible to make an independent judgment about whether that estimate is correct.
		But, Kent, what if it is correct?
		What is your message to those Republican lawmakers who are open to extending these ACA tax credits?
unidentified		Well, all Republican lawmakers are getting calls from constituents saying that we're getting killed.
		Everybody's hurting.
		The government shutdown is a bad thing.
		So if 20% of them want to cave in to the Democrats, they're just weak.
		A lot of Republicans get weak.
		The Democrat Party never gets weak in that regard.
		I don't care what it is.
bill in north carolina ▲ ● ▼		You got the Democrats that said mute and let 20 million people come into this country and they had not one thing to say, not because they didn't know that it was wrong.
unidentified		They knew it was terribly wrong, that perhaps it would destroy the country.
		It doesn't matter to Democrats if something's wrong.
		If the Democrat Party says do it, they do it, regardless of the outcome, regardless of how many people get hurt.
		When people let 20 million people come into the country and then they're so moronic to just not even say anything about it, but they'll get on the thing in the radio or on TV and say, well, Trump's a felon.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Kent.
		I'm going to jump in here.
		We're talking about day 17 of the government shutdown.
		Rhonda, Sacramento, California, independent.
		Rhonda, who do you blame as an independent for this government shutdown?
unidentified		I am just in a state of unknowing because you're getting different messages from different news media.
		And the call this morning that I wanted to talk about was the Republican Representative Lisa McClain or McCain, forgive me if I'm saying her name incorrectly.
		Yeah, stated that the Democrats won't budge until planes fall out of the sky.
		What a comment to make.
		I was shocked when I heard it.
		And she made that remark in the context of accusing Democrats for prolonging the shutdown.
		Yesterday evening on one of the other news channels, Orsaka Cortez and Bernie Sanders had a more or less a what, like an town hall, down hall.
		And they both stated that, well, the Republicans are not there in Washington.
		There's no one there to talk.
		She said, well, all they have to do is call us, and we'll be willing to sit down and talk.
		I'm calling from the state of California.
		And you know, Trump does not like our governor at all.
		And we're suffering for this now.
		We're taking the hit because of the fact Trump does just not like our governor.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		So being able to do that.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		You're taking the hit from the government shutdown, you're saying?
unidentified		We are in many ways.
		There are many people here who are on, who have Section 8 housing, who are on food stamps.
		The line around the Social Services Department are around the block.
		You have our, you have, you know, food pantries and so on and so forth.
		They're so overwhelmed that many of the communities here in California, I'm in the Sacramento Valley, they're running out of food.
		So I'm just, you know, it's just being an independent, I think to myself, wow, no wonder I became an independent.
		Well, I thank you, C-SPAN, for taking my comment.
		I love Washington Journal.
		I watch it every day, basically every morning.
		And I just want to thank you for hearing my comment.
		Thank you so much.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
		And we appreciate that.
		You watch every morning.
		Thank you for that.
		Front page of the New York Times this morning, Rhonda and others may be interested.
		Trump targets Democratic districts by halting billions during the shutdown.
		More than 200 infrastructure projects and blue strongholds have had their federal funding cut off during the government shutdown.
		And take a look at this map.
		Rhonda's from California.
		She said they're taking the hit.
		You can see all of the areas right here on the map in California.
		We're going to go next to Diane in Wyoming, Michigan, Democratic caller.
		Hi, Diane.
unidentified		Hi, thank you for the call.
		You know, I'm 70 years old.
		I can't believe I'm saying this, but I have never seen anything like this in my life.
		I totally blame Trump for everything that's going on.
		He has his minions in Congress.
		They're not allowed to do except what he wants.
		And so he is the one that should be here instead of building a ballroom in the White House and going golfing.
		And he should be the one sitting down if he cared about the people.
		He says right out he don't care about Democrats.
		And, you know, I've never heard a president say that a day in my life, that they don't care about the other side.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Diane.
		Let's listen to the leadership and the president on what needs to happen to end this shutdown showdown.
		Let's listen first to Hakeem Jeffries, Democrat of New York, on the Capitol steps yesterday talking about what he believes Republicans need to do.
		Here he is.
hakeem jeffries ▲ ● ▼		The responsible thing for Donald Trump and House Republican, along with Senate Republican leaders, to do is for them to sit down so we can work this out in a bipartisan way.
		That's the responsible thing to do.
		Whenever we found ourselves, unfortunately, in a government shutdown in the past, that's always been the way out.
		But this group of Republicans who simply want to rubber stamp Donald Trump and haven't been given permission to sit down and have a conversation have adopted this position of my way or the highway.
		And Democrats have been clear.
		We're not going to support a partisan Republican spending bill that guts the health care of the American people.
		This is a major issue for millions of Americans all across the country.
		And it requires urgent action now.
		In terms of the informal conversations that are taking place in the Senate, as House Democrats, we've been clear.
		We will evaluate in good faith any bipartisan proposal that emerges from the Senate as long as it is designed to accomplish three objectives.
		Reopen the government, enact a spending bill that improves the quality of life of the American people, and addresses the Republican health care crisis.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Hakeem Jeffries, Democratic leader in the House yesterday.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Now let's go to the president at the White House yesterday when he was asked about what he could do to resolve the budget impasse.
unidentified		I think we can see your deal-making skills apply to the government shutdown anytime soon.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, I mean, all we want to do is just extend.
		We don't want anything.
		We just want to extend, live with the deal that they had.
		They want to spend $1.5 trillion on illegal immigrants, and they want to destroy health care for everyone else.
		And it's crazy.
		It's crazy.
		People that are here illegally, they want to spend $1.5 trillion.
		So we're just not going to do it.
		No, we have to take care of our health care.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		President Trump yesterday at the White House, back to calls.
		Rod and Eaton, Ohio, an independent.
		Rod, you just heard from those two leaders here in Washington.
		What did you think?
unidentified		Morning, Greta.
		Morning.
		Well, I think it's all their fault, to begin with.
		And I'll try to keep this short, but, you know, the Continental Congress, they had a lot more to worry about.
		You're trying to figure out how to separate from England.
		And they still got together.
		There's so many different opinions, so many different personalities.
		They still got together and worked out what they could, when they could, because, I mean, the biggest project in America was right there.
		And Maggie Hussar was on yesterday, the senator from New Hampshire, and she made the point, your same point, that we've got all kinds of bills out here to work on.
		You can't kill a big beast, but maybe we can take care of some of the smaller animals like we're in here.
		All right.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Rod.
		Understood.
		Justin, Akron, Ohio, Republican.
		Your turn.
unidentified		Hey, good morning.
		Those are interesting clips you just played.
		I like to tell the American people, you know what you get with bipartisanship?
		You get $38 trillion in debt and you get a $1 trillion annual interest expense.
		So that's what you get with bipartisanship.
		And this whole nonsense of the Democrats lowering costs, they're not lowering costs.
		They're hiding costs.
		They're hiding costs with more deficits.
		And that's all it is.
		There's no secrets to this anymore.
		These people are way too transparent.
		They don't have a clue how to lower costs.
		They're just hiding them with deficits.
		It's such an easy, easy way to legislate.
		We're just going to pretend we're doing Americans big favors while we pile you and bury you in debt.
		That's all you get from these guys.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		So, Justin, you're in lockstep here with Speaker of the House Mike Johnson and the Majority Leader John Thune.
		They're not saying when they say, we're not negotiating over the Affordable Care Act.
		Open up the government and then we'll talk about the Affordable Care Act.
unidentified		Absolutely.
		This is not, absolutely.
		You cannot throw this into a seven-week continuing resolution.
		It's just asinine.
		But we've got a country full of people that they're very self-serving.
		They don't recognize the debt that's being piled onto them and how it's affecting real life.
		They don't understand what the debt's, how it's creating inflationary pressure and devaluing us and making everything very expensive.
		I don't know how you can say it enough times.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		But that's kind of the state we're in.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Justin, Justin there in Akron, Ohio.
		Republican continuing resolution is what they call it here in Washington.
		And it means that the funding from the previous year that was approved by Congress and signed into law by the president, it just, that funding level just continues to fund the government throughout the weeks that there is a continuing resolution.
		Republicans have said, let's do it through November 21st.
		Clean, continuing resolution for the federal governments.
		The Democrats are saying we're not going to agree to that because there is this Affordable Care Act, CLIF is what they call it, for these tax credits.
		They were enhanced during COVID-19.
		They want to make them permanent.
		And the Democrats argue you need our votes in the Senate to advance to any legislation that would fund the government.
		And since you need our votes, you should be negotiating with us.
		Listen to Speaker Mike Johnson on that point.
mike johnson ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you what happened yesterday, because I met with Leader Thune, and he offered to Chuck Schumer a vote on Obamacare subsidies, and Schumer said no.
		That happened.
		Asked Leader Thune about it because they wanted a guaranteed outcome.
		Here's why we can't do that.
		Let me say this very clearly and for everyone again.
		Okay.
		The Obamacare subsidy issue is not the issue of today.
		It is in a subsidy that expires December 31.
		We were always planning to continue the debate and discussion about that issue in October and November.
		Ironically, Democrats are taking the time off the clock for us to do that.
		It's a very complicated, complex matter.
		There are no income caps on that.
		By the way, did you know if you're a hardworking taxpayer, middle-class earner, and your family's struggling to put food on the table, did you know that you are subsidizing wealthy people's health care with that subsidy?
		You probably didn't.
		Premiums have risen by some estimates 60% since Obamacare was enacted in law in 2010.
		There's no way to repeal and replace it because it's too deeply ingrained right now.
		We have to improve it.
		Republicans are the ones with the ideas to increase access to care, the quality of care, and bring down the cost.
		Not the Democrats.
		They're the ones that gave us this problem, and they're the ones that have made it so expensive.
		Now, we have 535 members between the House and Senate.
		There's a lot of people in this deliberative body here.
		That's a very complicated issue.
		It's not something that four people can go into a back room and guarantee an outcome on.
		It can't be done.
		It was not possible to be part of the CR, and it is not feasible.
		It's not appropriate to be on the CR.
		We require the member-driven consensus process here, and that's what's necessary.
		So it's not possible for Leader Thune to guarantee to Chuck Schumer some outcome on that because we haven't finished those deliberations.
		I mean, that's just as simple as it is.
		And all of you report on the Hill all the time.
		You know how the process works.
		So when Leader Thune offered Schumer a vote on the ACA on the subsidy, without guaranteeing an outcome, Schumer said, nope, no thanks.
		We'll keep it closed.
		Because by the way, remember, every day of the shutdown gets better for us, as Chuck Schumer said, okay?
		It's not getting better for the American people.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Republican Speaker Mike Johnson, yesterday on Capitol Hill, Politico reports this morning.
		Republicans are instead eyeing a bipartisan year-end package that could pair an overhaul of the expiring ACA subsidies, which were expanded by Democrats in 2021, with other health policies that are popular with conservatives.
		The Republicans won't cut a deal during the shutdown, but if a package comes together, it could hitch a ride on the next government funding bill.
		The latest from Politico this morning on strategies before the cameras and then what's happening behind the scenes as well.
		Susan in Indiana, Pennsylvania, Democratic caller.
		Susan, what do you say to Washington this morning?
unidentified		Good morning, Greta.
		First of all, it is my understanding that in the Senate, there's something called the nuclear option, and the nuclear option makes it able to pass legislation with 51 votes instead of a supermajority of 60.
		I believe that to be correct, and check that form if you want to.
		Yes, but if there is such a nuclear option, and it could be passed with 51 votes, then why doesn't John Zoon call the nuclear option and get the CR passed?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Susan, the precedent.
		I believe it's the precedent.
		You do that, and then when Democrats are in control of the Senate, that means they will do the same.
		And they will pass legislation with a simple majority.
		And as you know, our founders wanted the Senate to be the cooling chamber.
		And part of that cooling effort is to require 60 votes so that there's more consensus before they move forward on legislation.
unidentified		Yeah, I do understand the precedent, but we're in a government shutdown now.
		So doesn't that, we're in a government shutdown.
		And about the Affordable Care Act, everybody wants 21st century medical care, but you can't get 21st century medical care at 1990 prices.
		I was 60 years old when my husband walked out and divorced me.
		I was retired.
		He walked out, he divorced me, and he took his employer medical insurance with him.
		I had already had a bout of cancer, so it wasn't for the Affordable Care Act, I probably wouldn't have been able to get coverage because I had already had a bout of cancer.
		So why wouldn't I support other people having the same opportunity that I had?
		All right.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		And like Susan there, Susan there in Pennsylvania.
		Susan, I move on to Frank, who's in Florida, a Republican.
		Let's get Frank's thoughts.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Good morning, Greg.
		How are you doing?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Morning.
unidentified		Well, as a Republican, I blame my party.
		They are not doing anything for the working class people.
		You passed this big, beautiful bill.
		Big, beautiful bill.
		Gave billionaires and the wealthy a permanent tax break.
		Okay, fine.
		Sit down with the Democrats.
		Okay, this affordable care, we don't like it.
		We don't really want to deal with it.
		But since we're giving these people permanent tax breaks, we'll give you permanent tax breaks, except subsidies on this for you guys to vote on this bill.
		So it's bipartisan.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Is that your message to the president?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Do you think he could sit down with Democrats and cut that deal?
unidentified		That's the message to the whole Congress and the president.
		They all need to sit down and basically you can't mortgage to American people wages day after day and their kids and their grandkids to give money.
		We're giving $40 billion to Argentina for what?
		Why are we giving $40 billion?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		I believe the figure is $20 billion.
unidentified		But they're going to get $20 billion and I guess loans.
		We don't have, we're in a debt right now.
		$37, $38.
		It's probably almost $40 trillion in debt right now.
		Me, my solution is all the troops around the world, bring them home.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Frank, we are going to talk about other news that you brought up today.
		There is lots to share in the papers this morning, as well as debates that happened around Washington yesterday.
		We're going to go to open forum.
		Before we do that, though, there are the lines on your screen, so start dialing in.
		Any public policy or political issue that's on your mind, bring it to the table while we're in open forum.
		Before we do that, though, in an interview with Bloomberg, Energy Secretary Chris Wright spoke about the shutdown's impact on the federal agency responsible for maintaining and designing the nation's nuclear weapons arsenal.
chris wright ▲ ● ▼		Here's what he had to say on Thursday: We are modernizing our nuclear weapons stockpile at the Department of Energy.
		That's done by about 100,000 contractors.
		They're not government employees, they're contractors.
		So they're not going to get back pay.
		We've been paying them till date, to date, but starting tomorrow, Monday at the latest, we're not going to be able to pay those workers.
		If that continues on for long, they may get other jobs.
		They're going to stop their efforts to modernize our nuclear weapons to guarantee the sovereignty of our country.
		That's not something we should mess around with.
unidentified		Are you saying you are furloughing employees at the National Nuclear Security Administration, which keeps our nuclear stockpile in check?
chris wright ▲ ● ▼		We have not furloughed anyone yet, but we will be out of funds by tomorrow or early next week.
		So we will be forced to do that if this shutdown continues.
		I desperately do not want to do that, but I have to follow the law.
unidentified		Well, what does this mean for our national security posture?
chris wright ▲ ● ▼		Of course, we keep people for emergency services.
		Our existing nuclear stockpile will be secure and will be ready.
		But the modernization program to replace our older weapons with new modern weapons-that's a key part of my job.
		We're just ramping those efforts up.
		We're just getting momentum there.
		To have everybody unpaid and not coming to work, that will not be helpful.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Chris Wright, the energy secretary in the Trump administration, in an interview with Bloomberg yesterday, talking about the government shutdown as we enter day 17 this morning.
		You can continue calling in this morning and delivering your message to Washington on the shutdown.
		We also are in open forum, so any other public policy or political issue on your mind.
		Raquel and Ladylike Florida Independent will hear from you first here in Open Forum.
unidentified		Hi, good morning, and thanks so much for allowing me to speak today.
		Good morning, all of America.
		I just want to take a moment real quick and just kind of share my thought about pretty much everything that's going on.
		I've been following this shutdown since it started.
		It's also personally affecting me.
		As far as what's going on in our institution, in our government, I think it's completely indications of institutional decay.
		Honestly, I feel like right now the U.S. political system is riddled with internal misalignment.
		That's less than, that's less about overt collapse and more about quiet dysfunction.
		The Republicans and the Democrats aren't being truthful.
		I truly believe that they are hiding their other hand in what's going on.
		Institutions are technically working, but not in the ways that serve the Democratic integrity or public trust.
		And so I just want to take a moment and just kind of maybe give a message to Mike Johnson and Chuck Schumer.
		As an independent, I don't feel like you guys are supporting your parties.
		I truly feel like as adults in society, you guys should be coming to the table and talking about what's going on and talking about ways to open the government back up to avoid any of the deadlines that are coming up right now.
		There is actually some legislation.
		I don't remember the bill, but it's a House bill where they were actually talking about cutting funds to the IRS, funds to consumer protection, like, you know, who goes and tells us what recalls with baby toys and things like that.
		All of these programs are getting cut.
		And so I need, I just want Mike Johnson and Chuck Schumer to come to the table on a public forum and discuss what's really going on because behind a closed door, nobody knows what's happening.
		And it's time for us to see truly what's going on regarding this shutdown and regarding our institution as a whole.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Raca.
		Let me move on.
		Elaine, South Carolina, Democratic caller.
		Elaine, what's on your mind this morning?
		We're in open forum.
unidentified		Good morning, C-SPAN.
		Thank you.
		I'm just calling in regards to the shutdown.
		And I believe that the problem is Trump.
		If you get rid of the problem, I think the Democrats and the Republicans can get together and they can pass this bill and work something out and just open up the government.
		The hospitals are really suffering.
		And I just want to know, I wanted to say for a person who works in a hospital, and I work in the emergency room, we take, we accept, we take everyone, undocumented individuals, everyone comes in the hospital, we have to accept them.
		They come in, they're seen by a doctor, okay, or by a nurse practitioner.
		But the only thing is, if they're not insured, they have to be directed.
		The hospital will do what they can in the emergency room.
		But once they're seen, if they don't have insurance, not both for everyone, they're directed to a doctor of their choice, or they can go somewhere else, but they would have to pay out of their pocket or either try to get some insurance.
		But this is the thing about it.
		As far as they want to say the undocuments are not being seen and they're getting all this medical care, that's not true.
		They get the care to everyone.
		They don't discriminate when they come into the emergency room.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Understood.
		Elaine, there in South Carolina, we're in an open forum.
		Yesterday evening in New York, the candidates for mayor for New York City had their first general debate, first of two for the mayor position here.
		You can see this picture in the Wall Street Journal this morning of the three candidates, Independent former governor Andrew Cuomo, the Republican Curtis Liwa, and Democratic Assemblyman Mamdani, all squaring off yesterday in New York.
		Take a look at this clip from yesterday's debate.
andrew cuomo ▲ ● ▼		This is no job for on-the-job training.
andrew cuomo ▲ ● ▼		And if you look at the failed mayors, they're ones that had no management experience.
unidentified		Don't do it again.
zohran mamdani ▲ ● ▼		You know, I have the experience of having served in the New York State Assembly for five years and watching a broken political system, the experience of seeing a governor in Andrew Cuomo who would rather have served his billionaire donors and the working class New Yorkers who voted for him.
		And the experience amidst all of that of fighting and winning for working class taxi drivers to free them from predatory debt and delivering the first free bus lines in New York City history and working with unions and working class New Yorkers to finally raise taxes just that little bit on Mr. Cuomo's donors to start to fully fund our public school.
		And more than that, I have the experience of being a New Yorker, someone who has actually paid rent in the city before I ran for mayor, someone who has had to wait for a bus that never came, someone who actually buys his groceries in this same city.
		And what all of that experience has shown me, which Mr. Cuomo can't seem to understand, is that it is far too expensive and far too hard for New Yorkers to afford to live in this city.
		And the definition of experience is not doing the same thing again and again and hoping for a different result.
		That's actually the definition of insanity.
unidentified		Thank you, Mr. Mamdani.
andrew cuomo ▲ ● ▼		If I can, I think I was invoked.
unidentified		Yes.
andrew cuomo ▲ ● ▼		In other words, what the assemblyman said is he has no experience.
		And this is not a job for someone who has no management experience to run 300,000 people, no financial experience to run $115 billion budget.
		He literally has never had a job.
unidentified		On his resume, it says he interned for his mother.
andrew cuomo ▲ ● ▼		This is not a job for a first-timer.
andrew cuomo ▲ ● ▼		Any day, you could have a hurricane, God forbid, a 9-11, a health pandemic.
zohran mamdani ▲ ● ▼		If you don't know what we're doing, people are going to be able to do it.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Mamdani, if you want to respond.
zohran mamdani ▲ ● ▼		And if we have a health pandemic, then why would New Yorkers turn back to the governor who sent seniors to their death in nursing homes?
		That's the kind of experience that's on offer here today.
		What I don't have in experience, I make up for in integrity.
		And what you don't have in integrity, you could never make up for in experience.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		The clouds coming off in New York City's mayor debate last night.
		You can find that debate on our website if you go to cspan.org.
		We're in open forum here this morning.
		Patrick in Pennsylvania, Republican.
		Hi, Patrick.
unidentified		Good morning.
		You know, I change political parties because of the degenerative nature of what the Democratic Party establishment has become.
		It is a corporate cartel system designed to destroy the United States internally.
		It's like a virus.
		You know, when John Fetterman turns around and agrees with Republicans, particularly when it comes to the essential shutdown of our financial system that's going to affect our military, I mean, my God, how insane can you be?
		You're sitting on the sidelines and calling yourselves Democrats while you are literally defunding the very fabric of our country's defense.
		Here's the really scary part.
		You see the Mondavis who are not, they're not Democrats.
		They're blatant, in-your-face communists who want to take over or turn our country into a uniparty.
		So you have two choices.
		You can either change political parties or vote across the aisle to keep our country going.
		So now what we're dealing with is we're dealing with Jeffries, who's the most dysfunctional political representative of the Democratic Party in its history.
		And in addition to that, you have nothing but economic jihadism.
		Can you imagine the Republican Party shutting down the government when you have millions of illegal immigrants in our country taking resources?
		Hospitals are closing because of this.
		So you have two choices.
		You can either continue to allow this to be destroyed, or you can support a political party that's going to actually represent the working class, which is not the Democrats.
		I can tell you that defense.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Patrick, before you go, do you like John Fetterman as a Republican from Pennsylvania?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		So you wouldn't vote for him.
unidentified		No, of course not.
		But what he's understanding is there are basic things that any political representative in this country represents and should understand.
		And he's understanding the magnitude of the damage that his own party is now implementing in this country.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Patrick, I'm going to jump in.
		You and others may be interested in Axios' reporting.
		They say they've scooped here that Democrats are plotting the ouster of John Fetterman in Pennsylvania.
		Why it matters?
		Top Democrats in the state are maneuvering to run against Senator John Fetterman in a 2028 primary season.
		Democrats haven't flipped a GOP Senate seat since Fetterman did it in 2022.
		He's still popular with Pennsylvania voters, even as Democrats turn on him over his softened approach to President Trump.
		It goes on to say that John Fetterman, when he was asked about their reporting, texted, enjoy your clickbait.
		Asked a follow-up question, Fetterman said, please do not contact.
		Fetterman later shared an article about a report from a conservative group showing that he is among, quote, the least Trump-aligned Democratic lawmakers in Pennsylvania, voting with the president 6% of the time.
		He highlighted that analysis showed Democrat Congressman Brendan Boyle, who could challenge him, voting with Trump nearly 14% of the time.
		Fetterman said, actual numbers, less clicks.
		That's Axios' reporting this morning.
		We are in open forum here this morning, getting your thoughts on government shutdown, day 17, also other news of the day.
		And here is the politics section of the Washington Times this morning.
		President Trump to meet with the Russian president Putin to find solution on end to the war in Ukraine.
		Here's what the president had to say in the Oval Office yesterday.
unidentified		Could I follow up?
unidentified		You also posted about your call on President Putin today, and you spoke about meeting in Hungary with him.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a timeline or a date set for when?
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I would say within two weeks or so.
		Pretty quick.
		Marco Rubio is going to be meeting with his counterpart, as you know, Labrov.
		And they'll be meeting pretty soon.
		They're going to set up a time and a place very shortly.
		Maybe it's already set up.
		They've already spoken.
		And I thought it was a very good phone call.
		I thought it was very productive.
		But I'll be meeting with President Putin, and we'll make a determination.
		Tomorrow I'm meeting with President Zelensky, and I'll be telling him about the call.
		I mean, we have a problem.
		They don't get along too well, those two.
		And it's sometimes tough to have meetings.
		So we may do something where we're separate, but separate but equal.
		We'll meet and talk parties, but this is a terrible relationship the two of them have.
		And it's one of those things.
		I've seen things that nobody would believe, but this is one of them.
		So I'll be meeting.
		We're going to be meeting in Hungary.
		Victor Orban is going to be hosting.
		And it's really something that's time.
		Last week, over 7,000 people were killed.
		That's ridiculous.
		And you know, it doesn't affect our country.
		We're not losing people.
		We're not losing Bobby.
		We're not losing Americans.
		But they're losing Russians, Ukrainians, mostly soldiers, for the most part, soldiers.
		And we think we're going to get, we hope we're going to get it stopped.
		I thought this would be, because of my relationship with President Putin, I thought this would be very quick.
		And it's turned out to be, who would think I did Middle East before I did this?
		We did a total of eight now, seven and now eight.
		And we're going to make this number nine.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		President Trump yesterday at the White House talking about meeting with the Russian President Putin to bring an end to the Russia-Ukraine war.
		He made that announcement yesterday.
		That follows a schedule put out by the White House that shows the president will be meeting with the Ukrainian president for their fourth face-to-face visit.
		Ukrainian president, Mr. Zelensky, will arrive at 1 p.m. Eastern time here.
		And then there will be lunch with the president shortly after that.
		And they'll participate in a bilateral conversation.
		Right now it's closed to the press.
		We'll see if that opens up.
		And if so, tune in to our coverage at c-span.org.
		You can download our free video mobile app, C-SPAN, now as well.
		We're an open forum.
		Patricia in New York, Democratic caller.
		Patricia, good morning.
		It's your turn.
unidentified		Good morning.
		How are you?
		This is my first time calling.
		I just got two things to say.
		Number one, I wish they stopped saying that undoctorate immigrants are getting federal aid for Medicaid and food stamps.
		If you're undocumented, you can't get it.
		But number two, we need that Affordable Care Act.
		Number one, I don't get it.
		I get Medicare.
		I get Medicare and I have my secondary insurance.
		My secondary insurance has gone up tremendously.
		I have cancer.
		If I didn't have a grant from Cancer Society, I would not be afforded with my Medicare and my secondary insurance.
		If they cut Medicaid and they're cutting food stamps, if they cut that, guess who's going to carry the burden?
		The rest of us who do not have insurance.
		So people keep thinking that they're cutting Medicaid, they're cutting these insurances, that they're not going to be responsible.
		But those that pay will be irresponsible.
		And personally, I cannot afford to pay anything else.
		Thank you very much for having me to speak.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Patricia in New York, Democratic caller.
		Timothy is also in New York, an independent.
		Timothy, what's on your mind this morning?
unidentified		Yeah, good morning.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		Sort of an overarching theme, and I think it runs through just about everything today.
		I don't understand why the media and other politicians have not called out the lies.
		And just so the audience knows, I'm a recently retired 30-year veteran, New York City High School, history teacher, political science major.
		It took the media four years to use the word lie when Donald Trump lied, period.
		He plays fast and loose with the truth.
		He's not very good with the facts.
		They whitewashed his lying so much that it's become normalized.
		And now all of his little Republican cronies feel like it's okay to lie as well, like Speaker Mike Johnson did yesterday.
		And as the previous caller said very accurately, undocumented people only get some sort of health care if they wind up hit by a car and an emergency room.
		They don't check their papers.
		They treat them.
		And then the cost then gets passed over to others, like the previous caller said, other taxpayers and other people who pay for their health insurance.
		So Republicans are the party of liars, period.
		And it goes all the way back, if you want a historical reference, WMD.
		And you can also weave that into what's going on today with the debt, CBO numbers, $10 billion a month.
		There's 12 months in a year.
		$10 billion a month times 12 years times eight long years.
		Now you put the veterans care and the interest and the credit card that we paid for that on.
		That's why we are where we are in terms of the debt.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Timothy, in New York, an independent.
		In case you missed it this week, President Trump said that he would like to attend the Supreme Court oral argument on November 4th, when the November 5th, excuse me, November 5th here in Washington, when the justices take up the case about his tariffs.
		This is from the Washington Post editorial this morning.
		The president wants to be there for the tariff case next month.
		And they write that the president is daring the justices to defy him.
		It would certainly create a spectacle, and Trump is right about the case's importance.
		No president has ever claimed unlimited power to raise revenue by taxing imports.
		The Constitution explicitly lodges that responsibility with Congress.
		Indeed, control over raising revenue in the legislature's main check on the executive.
		Trump says Congress gave its power, tariff power, to the president under the IEEPA, even though the law does not mention tariffs, and no president has used the 1977 statute that way, including Trump, in his first term.
		That's the Emergency Powers Act the President is referencing.
		Front page of the Washington Times this morning, tariffs help tame the deficit as spending explodes.
		The president tariffs have helped tame the federal deficit, the Treasury Department reported Thursday with an extra $118 billion in customs revenue, limiting the damage from surging federal spending.
		The government ended fiscal 2025 with a $1.775 trillion deficit, a slight improvement on the previous year under President Biden.
		Spending rose $275 billion to exceed a record of $7 trillion.
		Revenue was up even more, $317 billion to reach $5.235 trillion, also a record.
		The latest from the Washington Times on the nation's deficit and the impact of the president's tariff policies.
		Again, that comes before the court on November 5th.
		And of course, here on C-SPAN, we'll have live the oral argument.
		So you can listen along.
		Perhaps we'll also see the president outside of the court before he goes in to hear the arguments before the nine justices.
		Ricky in LA, Republican.
		We'll go to you, Ricky.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
		We're an open forum.
		What's on your mind?
unidentified		Well, hello, Ms. Guerretta.
		Try to keep us straight today.
		The guy that was talking about Trump is this, Trump is that.
		I understand that.
		But talking about the media, and I think we should go back to the main topic.
		But for four years, they weren't saying nothing about Biden.
		Talking about the media.
		That's all I'm going to say about that.
		But all the people do have to work together.
		But all the Democrats are usually slicker about getting their messages across to us and sticking together.
		But it started the whole time it was open from all the illegals coming in here.
		I'm for helping everybody ten.
		You do have to sit down and talk, but all the people coming over here, they get here, and then all the Republicans, we get blamed for trying to get them out.
		And the cities will get blamed for trying to get the insurance.
		And then you got all these other Democrats and Republicans, poor people, because I'm poor too, cuz.
		And Ain't nobody rich here, but we gotta do what's right.
		We gotta figure out who and how the money comes.
		But I'm with the Republicans.
		Like I say, Mike hold his line.
		Like I say, Thu hold his line.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Ricky there, Republican.
		This is the Washington Times front page this morning.
		John Bolton, the former National Security Advisor during the first Trump administration, indicted and classified data case.
		Listen to what the president had to say yesterday when he was asked about this case against John Bolton.
unidentified		John Bolton was just indicted by a grand jury in Maryland.
unidentified		Do you have a reaction to that?
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I didn't know that.
		You tell me for the first time, but I think he's, you know, a bad person.
		I think he's a bad guy.
		Yeah, he's a bad guy.
		Too bad, but it's the way it goes.
		That's the way it goes, right?
		That's the way it goes.
unidentified		Well, I would have you reviewed the case against him?
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		No, I haven't.
		I haven't.
		But I just think he's a bad person.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		President Trump yesterday, when asked about this case against John Bolton, the Washington Times notes that if convicted, he faces up to 180 years in prison, a maximum of 10 years for each count, but he likely won't get the maximum sentence if found guilty.
		Kurt in Mount Union, Pennsylvania, and Independent.
		Hi, Kurt.
unidentified		Yes, good morning, Greta.
		How are you doing?
		Long time no talk.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Kurt.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		What's on your mind this morning?
unidentified		All right.
		My mind is the U.S. medical insurance industry is big business, big companies run by millionaires and billionaires.
		Now, the Democrats want to find a way to enrich them farther, which they are hypocritically going out having an oligarchy tour, saying, well, we need to stop oligarchy.
		Well, what they want to do right now with this government shutdown is find a way to feed the beast even more.
		And I don't quite understand it.
		I need somebody to explain that to me.
		Why, you know, the medical prices keep climbing, but, you know, we want to make sure the profit's made.
		So if the normal consumer can't do it, government will help throw some money to them.
		Where's this oligarchy thing that they're against?
		And billionaires and millionaires they want to stop.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Kurt.
		David, Columbia, South Carolina, Democratic caller.
		David, we'll go to you next.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		Good morning.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Morning.
unidentified		All right.
		I just have one question.
		Did the Republicans need the Democrats to pass this big ugly bill?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Did that say it again?
unidentified		Did the Republicans need the Democrats to pass this big ugly bill?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		And you know the answer, so go ahead.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		What's your point?
unidentified		I'm at you guys.
unidentified		You tell me now.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		David, your point.
unidentified		I want the American people to know.
unidentified		Well, if they didn't need their help, then they don't need their help to cut this government shutdown.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		See, I knew you had a point.
		Jim, Grayson, Kentucky, Republican.
unidentified		Hello, you got me?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We do.
		We're listening to you, Jim.
		It's your turn.
unidentified		Okay.
		Listen, I just want to say what a good job President Trump's done.
		And the Democrat Party is just doing everything they can to put stumbling blocks in front of him with this government.
		Shut down.
		And the American people are smarter than this.
		They can say the Democrat Party is against anything Trump suggests.
		I mean, they're against Jesus Christ, anything doing Jesus Christ.
		The Democrat Party is totally against it.
		But I just say, Trump, keep doing what you're doing.
		Thank you, John.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Jim in Texas, an independent.
		Hi, Jim.
		Good morning to you.
unidentified		Well, that young man, that man that just got through talking from Kentucky, he hit the nail on the head.
		He's got it right nailed on the head.
		I mean, if you look at the people that voted for Donald Trump, the United States Navy, the United States Marine Corps, the firefighters unions, the police officers' unions, the Christian Coalition, the United States Coast Guard, the United States Marine Corps, the United States Army.
		All the great people voted for Donald Trump.
		Let's look at who votes and stand was the Democrats.
		Bernie Sanders, communist.
		Madame, communist, Democrat.
		AOC, communist.
		Own and own and own.
		They hate America, just like that man just got through sand.
		Just like that man just got through sand.
		And a man from Pennsylvania, Erder, he said the same thing.
		The Democrats hate America.
		Who keeps wanting to shut the government down?
		Democrats.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Jim there in Texas, an independent caller.
		A couple of stories to share with you on front page of the newspapers this morning.
		Here's the front page of the Wall Street Journal.
		Data centers build their own power.
		Tech companies in the AI race need power and lots of it.
		And they aren't waiting around for the archaic U.S. power grid to catch up.
		In West Texas, natural gas-fired power generation is under construction as part of the $500 billion Stargate project from OpenAI and Oracle.
		Gas turbines are in use Colossus 1 and 2, and the massive data centers Elon Musk's XA1 is building in Memphis, Texas, Tennessee, excuse me.
		More than a dozen Equinox data centers across the country are using fuel cells for power.
		Now, the front page of the Washington Times.
		And a related story, AI boom revolution or another bubble.
		Investors are pouring hundreds of billions of dollars into artificial intelligence ventures, raising fears that profits won't match stock prices and lead to a bursting bubble that sends shockwaves through the economy.
		High valuations and allegations of circular financing in which companies create artificial demand or revenue by investing in one another have fuel comparisons to the dot-com boom and bust in the late 1990s.
		For example, companies such as Chipmaker at NVIDIA have invested in OpenAI, the maker of ChatGPT, as part of a strategic partnership that calls on OpenAI to rely on NVIDIA's technology.
		You can read more if you go to the Washington Times front page this morning.
		Richard in Greensboro, North Carolina, Democratic caller.
		Morning, Richard.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		How are you?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Morning.
unidentified		Hey, I'm.
		The last time I called was around dawn after the day after the election.
		And I said then that we're going to look back upon the day that Donald Trump was reelected as president as one of the darkest days in the history of this nation.
		It is something that the American people have done to themselves.
		Many people regret now their vote.
		Affordability that he promised, gone.
		It's not happening.
		There's nothing moving in that direction.
		All of this attempt to characterize our willingness to express ourselves with our First Amendment rights.
		Freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of assembly.
		You know, the fact that we dissent, that we disagree, that we're willing to voice that disagreement make us radical left-wing lunatics.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Richard, I'm going to jump in at that point.
		We are going to take a short break later on on the Washington Journal, a conversation with Rafael Mangual of the Manhattan Institute about Trump administration efforts to crack down on violent crime nationwide, something the president FBI Director Kash Patel touted earlier this week.
		But first, after the break, Randy Weingarten of the American Federation of Teachers discusses the ongoing government shutdown in her new book, Why Fascists Fear Teachers, Public Education, and the Future of Democracy.
		We'll be right back.
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		Some of them I probably won't say that.
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greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Joining us this morning is Randy Weingarten.
		She's the president of the American Federation of Teachers and also the author of a new book, Why Fascists Fear Teachers, Public Education and the Future of Democracy.
		Randy Weingarten, let's begin with the government shutdown.
		We're in day 17, and the Education Secretary, Linda McMahon, said recently this week that the shutdown confirms the Department of Education is unnecessary.
		Your reaction.
unidentified		It's only unnecessary to somebody who doesn't actually care about education.
		So what McMahon did was fire, I mean, they're back now because of a lawsuit, but fire every single person. who works with children with special needs.
		So you're a parent of a child with a special need and you have a problem.
		There was no one to take a phone call.
		There was no one to actually make sure a school district would do what a school district is supposed to do under the law, under civil rights law, to help kids with special needs.
		We've gone to the court any number of times now, and lower courts have now supported us on making the department do its job.
		On kids, young people, 45 million people have student loan debt, and they have a loan servicer who doesn't actually answer the phone or make sure that loans get serviced.
		We have to go to court about that.
		We have to go to court about them rewriting the civil rights laws.
		So ultimately, you know, given that she doesn't really know education, it's not a shock to me that she would say the department that she's running shouldn't, you know, she's doing the president's bidding.
		But at the end of the day, as Johnson, as Eisenhower, as others know and saw, we need to make sure that we are doing everything we can to help all kids.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We want to ask our viewers to join us in this conversation this morning.
		And we do have a line for parents and educators.
		And if you are a parent or an educator and you've tried to reach out to the Education Department during this government shutdown or you're impacted by the government shutdown as a parent or a teacher, we want to hear from you.
		So Republicans, dial in at 202-748-8001.
		Democrats, 202-748-8000.
		Independents, 202-748-8002.
		And then parents and educators, your line this morning is 202-748-8003.
		Randy Weingarten, you referenced this headline from USA Today.
		Judge temporarily reverses Trump's special education layoffs.
		How many people work in this unit at the Education Department?
		What's the impact?
unidentified		Well, my understanding was there were about 4,000 people nationwide, and they fired every one of them.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		And overall, they...
unidentified		No, there was...
		Let me just say this.
		There are 4,000 people that the lawsuit covered.
		In terms of the special needs department, there were about 1,000.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		About a what?
unidentified		A thousand, sorry.
		There's really only three different places where the Department of Education really, really, really operates these days.
		One is in student, you know, the Congress and President Obama, when there was a scandal in Sally Mae and Freddie Mac, they moved all of the people who do service student debt.
		They moved all of that to the education department.
		So the education department is a big bank.
		But then the other, really, the other areas that were a lot of people were people who, because of the Individuals with Disabilities in Education Act, before that act, you know, the federal, the country did not care enough, I would say, in many areas, did not care at all about our kids with special needs.
		And so that act was being implemented by the Department of Education.
		So if somebody has something called an IEP, an Individuals with Education program, it's the Department of Education that deals with that.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Overall, where is this administration in shutting down the Education Department?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		The president has said he put Linda McMahon in that position so that she would put herself out of a job.
unidentified		Well, let me just say this.
		The Department of Education doesn't run one school.
		Historically, and I think appropriately, states are the ones that run public schools and any kind of schooling in America, states and localities.
		It has to be close to where parents are.
		It has to be in communities.
		So I didn't quite know what Donald Trump was talking about when he said that the Department of Education runs schools because they don't.
		What it did since the Civil Rights Movement, since frankly, and I talk about this in the book that I wrote, Lyndon Johnson was president.
		Johnson was a teacher before he was president.
		He was a teacher in Texas.
		And he taught really poor kids.
		He taught kids who were Mexican-American principally.
		And what he understood from his teaching was that we need, if we really believe in capitalism and competition and innovation and a country of opportunity for all, that we really need to make sure that we give kids a level playing field when they're really young.
		And so that's what the Department of Education is about.
		It was to implement those laws to give everyone a shot at success in their, particularly in their youngest years, so that they could buy and be successful later in life.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We're talking with Randy Weingarten this morning about the government shutdown, its impact on education.
		We want to hear from all of you, so begin dialing in.
		Republicans 202-748-8001.
		Democrats 202-748-8000.
		Independents 202-748-8002.
		And parents and educators 202-748-8003.
		Randy Weingarten, before the Marshall.
unidentified		Can I just add that, look, all the things that happen in America.
		You know, every parent knows this, every teacher knows this.
		It shows up in a classroom.
		So, you know, for example, the reason right now that the government is not open is that the Democrats are trying to get a solution so that 25 million people who get these, you know, their health care through Obamacare, through enhanced Medicaid, who get the children health care program that was passed years ago.
		All those things are at risk right now.
		And so what happens if a child comes into a school and doesn't have any health care, doesn't have any dental care?
		What happens if a parent no longer has health care because the premium payments are too much?
		We see that.
		That gets felt in a classroom.
		If a child is sleeping because he has a toothache, how do we help a child deal with that toothache?
		If a child doesn't have healthy meals and we can't give kids healthy meals, how do we deal with all of that?
		All of these things that the government does, you see it in classrooms.
		And that's what we're trying to make sure.
		We're trying to make sure that schools, schools should be about reading, writing, arithmetic.
		They should be safe and welcome.
		We should have engaging curriculum.
		I'm a big believer, and I hope the Republican line hears this.
		I really believe in career tech ed, but we need the funding to be able to do all these things.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Rainy Weingarten, let's talk about the title of your book, Why Fascists Fear Teachers.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Who are the fascists?
unidentified		Well, what I, Brett, what I was concerned about as I was writing this book was that we don't teach about comparative governments in the United States classrooms.
		Like, thank God, we have always had for 249 years, a democratic system.
		I don't mean Democratic Party, a system of democracy in our republic.
		And I watched John Kelly and Mark Milley try to warn America, two great heroes, try to warn America about what fascistic behavior is and what that kind of demonizing and dehumanizing leads to in other places, leads to violence, leads to a division that's not political, but it's cultural and it becomes a place of oppression and repression.
		And I wanted to give that warning, and that's what I did.
		I didn't call anybody a fascist in the book because I didn't want to.
		I wanted to describe fascistic behavior.
		And I wanted to make sure that people knew what the antidote is.
		Because what we do in classrooms, when we create pluralism, meaning when we create a safe and welcoming environment where everyone, regardless of who they are, regardless of where they live, that every single child is welcome in our classroom.
		And then make sure that we actually teach critical thinking so that kids can discern fact from fiction.
		That's what I wanted to do.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We'll go to calls.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Andrew in New York, Democratic Caller.
unidentified		Yes, I'd like to say, first thing I'd like to say is, as for child health care, I would never ever say a child should be without health care.
		So I just want that out there because that's absolutely, they need that.
		I agree.
		But what I also, what I don't agree on is my father was a World War II Ranger.
		I'm 61.
		And I was highly like this as a child.
		So he once said to me, your job is to go to school, read, write arithmetic, and learn.
		My job is to keep the world away from you until you're mature enough to handle it.
		Now, ever since we've gone to both parties, every activist and anybody with an agenda is now allowed to use our children as little political pawns.
		We have seen the mental illness grow, grow, grow, grow amongst our kids because of social media and everybody like this woman in the political parties using our children as advocates for all this stuff.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Andrew, let's get a response.
unidentified		So, Andrew, look, I actually agree with you.
		And if you actually read my book on page 76 and 77, I go right to that point, which is that I don't, we have a different role in schools as school teachers than we do as advocates.
		And as school teachers, our job is not to teach kids what to think, but how to think.
		Now, there are values in America that we're going to teach about.
		And I always wear, I don't know if you can see it, I always wear my American flag because I don't, I don't, I'm sick and tired of people saying because we disagree with each other that people are not patriotic.
		But I do think you're right.
		Unfortunately, you're right, unlike what your dad did for you, social media and the environment around us intrudes about in our classrooms.
		And instead of ignoring it, we have to compete with it.
		But we should, whatever we do on the outside, which I think we have a right just like everybody else.
		You know, I'm going to be at No King's Day on Saturday.
		I know many of my members are.
		I know many people are.
		But what we do in classrooms is we have to teach kids how to think.
		We have to teach resilience.
		We have to teach critical thinking.
		We do have to help kids learn how to deal with differences and conflict and problem solving.
		So there's a lot of things we have to do in school, but we should not be looking as a teacher through the lens of what our individual, what our individual ideology is.
		We should be looking as a teacher of what do we do to help kids have the best experiences and be prepared for their future.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, we'll go to Helen next, who's in New York, a Republican and a teacher.
		Hi, Helen.
		Welcome to the conversation.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yes, good morning.
		Yes, I taught in New Jersey schools in community college mostly for 30 years.
		And over that time, I saw a degradation of the ability for the students to think critically as the salaries and the tax money went up, up, up in public schools.
		The learning went down, down, down.
		They can't critically think.
		I had students who went through an entire 12 years of public school who could not read.
		I mean, they actually could not read.
		Now, how did those students get passed through to be able to come to a community college?
		The emphasis has not been on the children.
		The emphasis has been on welfare for the teachers and more and more benefits and more and more pay.
		And we're really doing a disservice to our students.
		And I think Ms. Weingarten is on the wrong track.
		And I think they've become just places for indoctrination, turning out little robots instead of critical thinkers.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Randy Weingarten.
unidentified		Well, I agree with your caller that critical thinking is absolutely vital.
		And I spend my whole first chapter talking about that.
		I don't know when you taught, but I have watched the following.
		No Child Left Behind, which was actually a Republican initiative by President George Bush, worked on by Senator Ted Kennedy together.
		What it did was it actually, I think your caller is right, it actually squeezed out the most important ways in which we teach because it focused so much on reading scores and on mass scores that the way in which you teach critical thinking is just like your listener, your caller knows in community colleges, the way you teach it is you need to dwell on it a little bit.
		You need to have a classroom where you're doing a back and forth with kids in terms of asking questions and follow-up questions and having them be able to answer it or do it in groups and be able to write something like a debate or like an experiential project.
		Critical thinking doesn't just happen in a bottle.
		And the same thing in terms of reading.
		And I think what has happened, and I'm glad we are doing a lot more about the science of reading, we have to make sure that kids know and have access to great books and books that interest them.
		But we also have to be able to teach phonics and we also have to be able to teach decoding.
		And a lot of that in the basically the beginning of the 2000s, it got moved out and de-emphasized.
		And I'm very glad the AFT, frankly, has always been critical of that.
		We always thought that we needed to emphasize both.
		And I'm glad it's coming back.
		Now, the real issue that we're competing with, and we see that in the test scores of since 2010, and Jonathan Haight and others who have been studying children see it, the real thing we're competing with is cell phones and with screens.
		And what we're seeing is that kids have reduced appetite for reading.
		They have a reduced concentration.
		And those are the things, that's why you see a bunch of places that have put into effect a distraction-free school and cell phones not in schools anymore.
		So kids are starting to look at each other again.
		They're starting to work with each other again.
		We need this to be a human enterprise.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Mary in Michigan, Independent.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I'm listening to Randy Weingarten, and I must say, I've been very disappointed in her.
		In my school district, only 36% of the students can read at grade level, and only 28% can do math.
		I think to go back to teaching the basics, get gender, get sex, get orientation, get that out of, especially out of elementary schools.
		When I went to school, I didn't know who my teacher's spouse was, what her sexual orientation was.
		I think we put way too much on children too early.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Let's take your point, Mary.
		Let's take your point.
		Randy Weingarten.
unidentified		So I think that we have to, first off, I don't know which district you're in or not, Mary, but I do think we have to actually see people for who they are and treat people for who they are.
		And that, you know, years ago, if a teacher got pregnant, she got fired.
		I mean, I don't think we want to go back to that.
		But what we, I think that what we've learned in terms of research in the world is that we have to treat people, particularly our youngest kids, as human beings.
		And so, first and foremost, we have to keep them safe in schools.
		And second, we have to keep them welcome so they want to be in schools and they feel like a million dollars.
		If a kid feels like she, you know, is that she has confidence, that she has agency, that is absolutely key to learning.
		And the other piece is, in the world that we're living in right now, kids don't need, you know, we're going to have AI.
		Kids need to learn how to problem solve and critically think.
		So we need to create experiences for them so that they actually understand the world that they're facing.
		I think we have to do it in an age-appropriate way, but we have to do all of these things.
		And so I think that you have a lot of schools that are trying to do all of that.
		And you have places where we need to do a lot more for kids who are falling behind.
		So, if you have a picture of your husband or your wife, a young person then says, Oh, my teacher is really a human being.
		If a teacher has a picture of their kids on the wall, then a young person says, Oh, my teacher has a family too.
		So, I think that those kind of things build community.
		And I don't think that I don't think we should be wearing our ideology on the sleeve, but I think those kind of things build community and are important.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Jay's next in Florida, Republican caller.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jay.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
		Man, I don't know where to start.
		Ms. Weingarten, you have put out about everything that you could to denigrate the public school system.
		I think that since you've been in office or in your position, schools have gone down.
		They haven't gone up.
		There's not one good report that you can give us for our children.
		I raised two deaf daughters and I raised them through the school district.
		And the one thing that you've skipped over completely is the state.
		Everything with you is federal.
		Yes, because that's where your money comes from.
		Now, I'm so tired of listening to somebody who says, I want to bring socialism into the school.
		And I don't mean socialism isn't communism.
		I mean socialism.
		You want to teach what's going on out into the real world inside your classroom, and that is the parents' responsibility, not yours.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jay, Jay, let's get a response to what you're saying.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		So, Randy Weingarten.
unidentified		So, Jay, clearly, I have not been a good teacher because I've said virtually the opposite of what you just said.
		I said for this whole last, I don't know, 27 minutes.
		So, what is it?
		I don't want to put you on the spot.
		And I'm so, look, the fact that you raised two deaf, the fact you raised two deaf kids, and you sound like you are an amazing parent.
		I don't, I don't, I want states to control schools.
		I don't want the federal government to control schools.
		And there is one school in the United States of America that I actually serve on the board of, New York City.
		It's actually a unionized charter school.
		And our kids are doing, but we have somewhere between a 95, 90 and 100% graduation rate.
		But here's where I think you and I differ.
		Everything shows up in our classroom.
		If something's going on in the world, like take, you know, when we've had these terrible situations where there's been gun violence in schools, kids show up with that.
		They're anxious about that.
		You can't ignore that if you're trying to teach kids.
		You have to meet kids where they are.
		And I think I said, and that's why I wrote it specifically in the book, I think you, my book, I think we have to divide what we do as activists and what we do as school teachers.
		And we have to do that.
		We can't wear our ideology on the sleeve.
		We wear our compassion on our sleeve.
		We wear the zeal that we want to make a difference in the lives of children on our sleeve.
		But this notion that I'm a socialist or communist, this is part of the concern I have in terms of governments that start smearing people or start putting out propaganda like that.
		My grandfather actually escaped from Russia because of the persecution against him, escaped from the Ukraine, brought my grandparents' family, brought his family, my grandmother's family here.
		So the attributes that you have towards me, because I'm on this show, and because I'm been the head of a union for these years, it's just completely false.
		I care about people.
		I want to fight for people.
		I care about children.
		I've spent my life devoted to that.
		So, how does that get you to what you just said about me?
		That's what's wrong with the way in which we debate and we discuss in this country.
		We attribute to people we think are our enemies or opponents such terrible things.
		That is a problem.
		We may disagree on different things, but let's not attribute evil intent or motivation to each other.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Then, why title your book, Fascists?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Why fascists fear teachers?
unidentified		Well, because I was giving, right?
		I was giving a warning because I see it.
		I see the kind of when you understand fascism, you understand what happens is that there is this road, very dangerous road that is taken about from division to degradation to dehumanization to thinking that your opponents are not worthy to be living,
		to be, and if you see that, you saw that in fascistic governments in the 20s, the 30s, and the 40s.
		And so, to actually create a warning that says, I hope to God we never get there.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Chris in Louisiana, Democratic caller.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
unidentified		Yes, I would like to say to our sister.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm so sorry, caller.
		I hope you can call back in again.
		Accidentally pushed that button.
		Apologies to you.
		We'll go to Vicki in Washington State, Independent.
		Caller, I do hope you call back.
		Randy Weingarten, this is Vicki in Washington State, Independent.
unidentified		Hello, Ms. Weingartner.
		I agree, education is important, and I guess I was fortunate.
		I'm a baby boomer.
		I'm 74.
		We had a lot of current events in our classes.
		We would talk with our teachers, and they would talk about what was happening in the world.
		Obviously, I grew up in the 60s when a lot was happening in the world.
		It wasn't as there was division, but the hate wasn't like it is today.
		But I do think the education system in this country has gone down.
		And partially, it's easier to control ignorant people.
		You talk about fascism.
		Yeah, teaches knowledge is the enemy of fascism, and people need to read history more.
		But parents need to start teaching their children how to learn at home.
		I think a lot of that, too, read to them and talk about things.
		You can talk about things in a newspaper.
		I also want to make a comment about the no kings.
		The no kings is probably one of the most fundamental things in this country right now because that's what our country was funded on, getting rid of King George, and we don't want another king.
		And when the Republicans say that this is a hate America, no, it's not.
		It's love America.
		I'm a veteran.
		I spent two years stationed in Germany.
		I learned a lot about what it was like when Hitler was coming into power.
		But most important of all, I love my country, and I don't want a king.
		I don't want a tyrant.
		I don't want a fascist or communist or whatever to take over.
		And I wish the Republicans would get off their knees and stand up and fight for our democracy.
		Thank you very much.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Rainy Weingarten.
unidentified		Look, I completely agree with your caller.
		And I think that what happens is that veterans who have served, so, you know, your caller and I both grew up, and I'm 60, I'm about to be this year, I'll be 68 years old.
		So I, too, am at baby boomer.
		And we also had, there was a lot of contention.
		I remember being in sixth grade when in Kent State when those kids were killed.
		I remember the, you know, the civil rights movements.
		I remember when Kennedy was killed, when King was killed.
		There was a lot of contention.
		But that level of seeing your opponents as an enemy to be hated, as opposed to they had a different point of view.
		And how do you solve problems and how do you think about things?
		How do you critically think?
		Now, part of it is we did not have no child left behind.
		It didn't squeeze out the curriculum.
		My teachers could actually give the grades that they believe that they should give, as opposed to there being social promotion or things like that.
		But there was, so I, so I grew up in a school system like the caller.
		But the second piece that the caller said, which I think is really important, and this is a knowledge of history, and this is a knowledge of American history as opposed to European history or as opposed to Mussolini or Hitler or the other or fascism itself,
		is that the one thing that really bound this country together, you know, we were a rebellious lot when we were 249 years ago and didn't want taxation without representation.
		And the men, and they were white men who put this country together, who wrote the Declaration of Independence, the one unifying principle they had was that they wanted to govern themselves.
		They wanted to be a government of and by the people, not by a king, not by a tyrant, not by somebody who could make their own rules.
		And they really believed, and you could see it in what the founders and framers said, and I spent a lot of time talking about that in this book.
		They understood that critical thinking in education was absolutely essential in order to avoid and make sure we never had another king.
		And I would say, and this was an independent caller, that she was completely right.
		You're going to see on Saturday a lot of middle-aged women who are going to be out, who are, who have, you know, RSVP said they're going to be out there.
		You're going to see a lot of veterans out there.
		You're going to see a lot of what is America out there because people want to have freedom in this country.
		Just like Greta, the freedom to speak, the freedom to criticize, the freedom to, you know, tell me what they think.
		And that you notice in my behavior here, I'm not critical of people.
		I want to have a real conversation.
		That is what schooling is supposed to be.
		That's what we should be teaching our kids how to do, to talk about our differences in a way that people can hear it and then react to it and to actually try to solve the problems of America.
		That's what people in public service should be doing.
		That's what people who are elected should be doing.
		And I actually agree with Marjorie Taylor Greene.
		You have to deal with the fact that 25 million people are about to have such a high premium increase in their health care that it's not going to be affordable.
		That's a real problem.
		Deal with it.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		CNN's reporting millions more expected for round two of the No Kings rally.
		You'll recall that back in June, 5 million, according to CNN, took to the streets to protest the Trump administration.
		They're reporting that more than 2,500 demonstrations, about 450 more than were planned in June across all of the states.
		2,600.
unidentified		We're up to 2,600 now.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		2,600 across all 50 states are slated for Saturday in the second round of the No Kings protests.
		Chris called back in Louisiana Democratic caller.
		Chris, my apologies to you.
unidentified		Go ahead.
		Thank you.
		Yes, ma'am.
		I would like to share to Ms. Randy, good morning.
		Ms. Randy, I've listened to what you were saying, and I want to say these things.
		In reference to education, public education, growing up in the parameter of a school, that's the walls of a school, of a classroom, the teachers taught the subjects that they were assigned to teach.
		For each hour, it would change to another subject.
		And within that hour that they were changed, they changed to another subject, they taught that subject.
		The teachers had prepared a lesson plan, too, for what they would be discussing and teaching that day.
		And the majority of the time with these lessons plans planned out, done by the teachers, they would never deviate hardly at all to where we were fully talking about politics.
		When we talked politics, we were in our civics classes.
		And in civics, that's where we really got into trying to understand the things about the democracy, the word democracy, and the branches of a democracy.
		You know, why the branches hold each other accountable.
		And it was used that way by the founding fathers so that I guess I would say keep things on an even keel, not let one take over over another one.
		But that was learned in civics.
		Now, when you went to your math class, you learned mathematics.
		And in the other class's history, you learned the history that was being allowed to be taught.
		And nobody complained.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Chris, I think we understand your point.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Randy Weingarten.
unidentified		Look, I think the caller is right.
		I mean, the issue, I think that part of the dilemma we have these days is that we don't actually teach civics enough and we don't actually leave the time to have civics being taught in an experiential kind of way.
		So that kids really feel the agency to know and to be proud of.
		of what a government is supposed to do and how it's supposed to do it.
		So one of the stories I tell about a current civics teacher, a current elementary school teacher in Washington, D.C., Rafael Bonholm, is that the way in which he teaches civics in an age-appropriate way to his class is that they take a project that they want to solve or they want to do in Washington, D.C.,
		and then they figure out how to do that project.
		And then they go to the city council and they meet with their council people and they try to get that project done and then they report on it to the rest of the school.
		So it's finding ways that you use the, you know, the laws of the city of Washington to actually solve a problem that the students want to solve.
		That's a way of teaching civics where you see the potential of what a government should be doing for the people, which is solving problems.
		And so, you know, math should be math, science should be science, foreign language should be foreign language.
		But the one thing I would say to the caller is in this competition that we right now have with social media, we have to actually make sure that kids want to go to school and that they want to learn.
		And so that means how do we make schooling relevant and interesting and engaging for our young people and what we see around the country, regardless of all the problems that are around the country.
		Poll after poll after poll talks about how parents really, really, really appreciate their kids' teachers and what their kids' teachers do for them.
		And I just want to, you know, I don't know if we have another question, Greg, or not, but I just really want to say that teachers every single day, all across the country, want to make a difference in the lives of kids.
		And they are not treated with the respect and dignity that they need.
		And they need to be because they are helping to try to nation build to help and make sure future generations have the skills and knowledge that they need to be able to take our country to higher hopes and higher places.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Randy Weingarten, one more call.
		Kristen in Ohio, an independent and an educator.
		Kristen.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I got to tell you, I'm seeing a lot of just double talk on here because for a few reasons.
barbara fisher ▲ ● ▼		As an educator, I'm seeing things get worse and worse and worse in the classrooms in terms of behaviors, in terms of social-emotional loss.
barbara fisher ▲ ● ▼		And a lot of that social-emotional loss and the nationwide chronic truancy problem was, number one, I'm going to say, brought on by all these draconian policies, not even policies, but recommendations that they wanted to do.
unidentified		I mean, these problems were there before the pandemic, but let me tell you something.
		What was made to feel like a force on schools and what they had to do contributed now to the skyrocketing truancy problems and parent problems that, you know, the core, the core problem is getting to the parents, the ones who are not supporting their kids' education.
		Nobody is talking about that.
		Nobody.
		It's always the school's problem, the school's problem, the school's problem.
		I'm also a union rep in my school, and I feel very passionately about, you know, teachers having their rights, but also that we get what we need for our kids.
		And I'm paying union dues over union dues year after year, and Ohio has some of the highest.
		Yet, yet, I know most of that money is just going towards politicians when it comes to the higher-ups, okay?
		That's going to the politicians.
		And I tell you, I'm done with politicians on both sides because I do believe that the Democratic Party uses our kids as pawns.
		And I do believe that the Republican Party is not for them constantly stripping money away.
		You stated that you believe it should be to the states.
barbara fisher ▲ ● ▼		Well, as much as I don't like to see what's even going on at all in education, I am seeing that this administration is trying to put it to the states.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Kristen, I have to jump in and we'll get a response from Randy Weingarten because we're short on time here.
unidentified		So the states have always controlled education.
		What the administration is doing, first of all, I completely agree with you that I want parents to be more engaged.
		And in terms of our union, we spend much more of our resources on things that kids need and things that you need and our members need than we do on politics.
		We just put out one of these, you know, we're required every year to put out reports.
		And I think it's that overwhelmingly we spend money on representation.
		But look, I understand what you're saying about, you know, being sick and tired of politicians on each side.
		But what you're talking about in terms of that period of time and the people like Jonathan Haight and others who have been studying this in terms of social media, they've seen that since screens have basically taken over in 2010, that we have lost the competition with screens in terms of our kids.
		And that's what we're trying to fight.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Randy Weingarten is the president of the American Federation of Teachers, and her new book is Why Fascists Fear Teachers, Public Education, and the Future of Democracy.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Randy Weingarten, thank you for talking to our viewers this morning.
unidentified		Thank you so much.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We'll take a break.
		When we come back, we'll be joined next by Rafael Mangual of the Manhattan Institute.
		We'll talk about the president and FBI director Kash Patel earlier this week, touting the administration's crackdown on violent crime in cities across the country.
		We'll be right back.
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greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Why are you doing this?
unidentified		This is outrageous.
		This is a keto-root court.
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		Ceasefire, where the shouting stops and the conversation begins.
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		Washington Journal continues.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Joining us this morning is Rafael Mangual.
		He's a fellow at the Manhattan Institute and author of the book Criminal Injustice, here to talk about the Trump administration's efforts to fight crime.
		Earlier this week, the president and FBI Director Kash Patel, along with the Attorney General, gave an update on crime prevention across the country.
		How would you describe the administration's overall approach nine months into this administration?
unidentified		Well, I think it's been relatively sound.
		I mean, I think the administration is taking lessons learned throughout the last several decades and reapplying them in American cities.
		But I also think that they are learning a little bit about the limits of taking a sort of federal government first approach to crime fighting.
		And what I've been really encouraged by is what the federal government seems to be doing to encourage states and give states the resources that they need to have their local law enforcement agencies do the job of crime control first and foremost.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		What's the limit?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		What limits are they learning?
unidentified		Well, I think the limits that they're learning is that there is a capacity limit for one, right?
		I mean, the federal government is only so big.
		There are so many American cities with so many different problems.
		They can't be in all places at once.
		The lessons that were learned in Washington, D.C., I think, were illustrative for what states should be doing.
		I mean, Washington, D.C. saw a massive decrease in crime when the surge occurred.
		I think overall crime was down something like 17%.
		But because of the temporary nature of that surge, one of those lessons was that we started to see crime rise back up after the surge ended.
		So the hope is that the federal government can kind of illustrate these lessons and give states and local law enforcement agencies a roadmap to follow and then ideally enjoy those same results in their own jurisdictions.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Take a look at a poll that was conducted by the Washington Post and Ipsos.
		They found, this was from September, 47% of Americans disapprove and 37% approved of his actions here in D.C. 46% oppose the idea of sending troops into other cities and 42% support it.
		Your reaction?
unidentified		Yeah, well, I think that shows that the country's pretty evenly divided on a lot of these questions.
		But there's no question that Donald Trump ran his campaign on doing exactly what he's doing now.
		So to the extent that he's following through on a campaign promise, I think that is being faithful to the promises that he made as a candidate.
		And I do think that the voters who supported him are likely the ones that are expressing the most support for that.
		But again, I think one of the other lessons learned here is that the federal government has limited jurisdiction.
		And so what that means is that there's only so much that they can do at the state and local level.
		What I was most encouraged by, I think two of the most important efforts done by the federal government were not boots on the ground efforts, but were actually illustrated by the executive orders that President Trump signed earlier this year.
		So in April, there was an executive order on policing that directed the federal government to set aside more money for local police recruitment and retention, for providing more excess military and national security equipment to local police departments.
		And he also directed his DOJ to stop pattern and practice investigations of local law enforcement agencies based solely on racial disparate impact and enforcement statistics.
		And I think two of those two developments have been incredibly important and will prove to be important and lasting, unlike some of these boots on the ground efforts that are only going to have limited impacts.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Earlier this month, as you know, judges blocked the deployment of National Guard troops to Chicago and Portland.
		So what legal authority does the president have to deploy troops to cities?
		And what is your response to these judges and their decision?
unidentified		Look, I think that, you know, again, this is one of those areas where the federal government is sort of testing the waters and learning some of the limits of its jurisdiction with respect to things like National Guard deployments.
		But there are other jurisdictions where governors are going to request the help of the National Guard.
		And that is where I think the administration should focus those efforts rather than litigating these questions where they are deploying over the objections of the governors.
		I think that the legal requirement for that kind of deployment is significantly higher.
		The bar is higher and probably hasn't been met in a place like Chicago.
		That doesn't mean that what Chicago is doing or that the approach that the state of Illinois has been taking to these issues is the right one.
		I would say it's absolutely the wrong one in a lot of different ways.
		But once again, I do think that the federal government should focus its resources most heavily on the places where they are going to have the cooperation of local authorities because that's where you're going to be able to maximize the potential benefits of these efforts.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Rafael Mungual, what are you, who is committing the crimes that the president is trying to limit or stop in these cities?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Who are the criminals?
unidentified		I mean, the same people that have been committing the crimes in cities, you know, over the course of American history, right?
		I mean, every American city has a crime problem, right?
		There's never existed a human society in which predation didn't exist.
		And so, you know, what I think we have to recognize is that that crime problem has always been very hyper-concentrated among a very small number of offenders.
		What I think the federal government is most concerned with is this problem of repeat offenders, where you have this low-hanging fruit in the form of individuals who have 10, 20, 30 prior arrests, multiple prior convictions, active criminal justice statuses like probation or parole or open cases, and yet are out roaming the streets.
		I think this is where the federal government is trying to make the biggest impact outside of the immigration context, which is, of course, where the federal government has devoted a lot of its resources.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		The Brennan Center has this headline, debunking the myth of the migrant crime wave.
		They say data shows, does not support claims that the United States has experienced a surge in crime caused by immigrants.
		And in their reporting, they say the research does not support the view that immigrants commit crime or are incarcerated at higher rates than native-born Americans.
		In fact, immigrants might have less law enforcement contact compared to non-immigrants.
		Rafael Mungual?
unidentified		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		So, I mean, I'm familiar with these claims, you know, and I think it's important to sort of parse them out, right, and understand what they are and are not responsive to.
		I don't think anyone's saying that immigrants writ large as a group are a criminal group, right?
		I mean, and just as Americans as a group are not a criminal group, there are subsets of every population where crime concentrates.
		And one of the things that I would say just in response to listening to you read that Brennan Center piece off is that one of the things you have to do is sort of disaggregate that group of immigrants, right?
		What does it mean to say that immigrants commit crime at lower rates than natives?
		Okay, well, that might be different from what it means to say that illegal immigrants commit less crime than natives.
		And then what about male illegal immigrants?
		And what about male illegal immigrants who cross the southern border illegally as opposed to, say, overstaying a visa?
		And when you kind of dig down, I do think that you'll find some evidence that there are some subsets of the illegal immigrant population that do commit crime at a significant enough rate to warrant the kind of attention that the federal government has been directing toward this problem.
		And at the end of the day, I think a lot of Americans have sort of gotten to the point where they say, well, we don't really care what the crime rates are in the aggregate to the extent that we have a massive illegal immigrant population that resulted from an open borders policy and that some subset of those individuals are committing crimes.
		Well, those are crimes that definitionally we should not be experiencing had we done our job at the border.
		And I think the president is being responsive to those concerns.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's get our viewers involved this morning.
		Republicans, dial in at 202-748-8001.
		Democrats, 202-748-8000.
		Independents, 202-748-8002.
		And you can text if you don't want to call at 202-748-8003.
		We'll go to Vicksburg, Michigan.
		John watching there, an Independent.
		Hi, John.
unidentified		Hi, how are you doing?
		Morning.
		I think that this whole crackdown on crime is misplaced.
		I think that the crackdown on crime should be aimed at Wall Street and the federal government.
		I think that would solve a lot of situations.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, take a look at some numbers put together by the Washington Times on Operation Summer Heat.
		Nearly 8,700 arrests of violent offenders in three months.
		2,200 firearms have been seized.
		557 missing children found, and 45,000 kilograms of cocaine and 421 kilograms of fentanyl seized.
		This is from the Washington Times reporting on Operation Summer Heat.
		Rafael Manguel, would you say that those are successful numbers?
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, I absolutely think that all of those numbers represent positive developments, right?
		I mean, fewer illegal guns on the street, fewer repeat offenders on the street, less drugs on the street, all of that.
		It matters and will make a difference in the aggregate.
		But again, this is a large country, right?
		I mean, we are a country of 350 million people with many thousands of counties and somewhere on the order of 18,000 law enforcement agencies.
		There is only so much that the federal government can do.
		What I hope, what I really truly hope, is that local law enforcement agencies and state law enforcement agencies are now taking their cues from this approach and understanding that by reasserting themselves and retaking a sort of more aggressive and proactive posture to the kind of crime that really matters for everyday Americans, that that will provide lasting benefits.
		And if that happens, then I think the federal government's efforts will be even more successful.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We're going to hear from Henry, who's in Michigan.
		Democratic caller.
		Hi, Henry.
unidentified		Hi.
		I'd like to try to clear up a couple of things from a previous segment.
		Greta, your assessment of the shutdown and the Democratic position, you said that the Republicans want a clean CR.
		That's only partially right.
		The other part of that is the Democrats don't want to vote for it because they don't trust the Republicans that once the government reopens to discuss the health care issue.
		And it is $40 billion to Argentina.
		My question for Mr. Manguel.
		Mr. Manguel, I'd like to know how you feel about a Department of Justice that has its fealty to the President of the United States and not the Constitution.
		And my example of that are the frivolous charges that have been brought against Mr. Comey, against Ms. James, and Attorney General James, and the looming charges against Mr. Bolson.
		And I'm seeing that the Department of Justice is actually carrying out the president's revenge tour that he said he was going to do, which is another promise that he made.
		And Greta, to help you with the definition of fascist, if you have a government that has departments that are showing their loyalty towards the president and a president who is doing illegal things like eliminating departments willy-nilly, laying people off illegally, you have a fascist society.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Henry.
		Manguel?
		Rafael Mangu?
unidentified		Yeah, so I guess the response that I would give is that I just don't buy the premise of the question.
		The idea that the DOJ should not be loyal to the president or follow his directives, I think, would upend the constitutional order.
		The Constitution vests the executive authority in a president.
		So it is exactly right that the DOJ follow the orders of the president because the president is the head of the executive branch and the DOJ is an executive branch agency.
		Now, I have not looked into the details of the indictments against James Comey or Letitia James, but I do trust that our judicial system will do its job, that those claims will be investigated, litigated, and that if those individuals are guilty, that they will be held accountable for their crimes.
		And I suspect that there are a lot of people who just heard that question and are trying to roll their eyes back into their head, given all of the lawfare that was engaged in against the President of the United States in the lead up to this last election.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Rafael Manguel is our guest here this morning.
		He's a fellow at the Manhattan Institute and also author of the book Criminal Injustice, talking about the Trump administration's crime fighting efforts.
		We're going to hear from Edward in Burbank, California next, and Independent.
		Hi, Edward.
unidentified		Yeah, can you hear me okay?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We can.
unidentified		Okay, it's interesting that when an illegal alien commits a crime, the media notifies the public that this is an illegal alien from Mexico or wherever they're from.
		But when a U.S. citizen commits a crime, they don't notify the public that this is a U.S. citizen who's committing a crime.
		So it's almost like they're trying to hide the fact that most crimes in this country are committed by U.S. citizens.
		Most people in prison are U.S. citizens.
		And most of the mass murders that we've seen taking place are by U.S. citizens, but it's not highlighted in the reporting that this was a U.S. citizen who committed the crime.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Manguel.
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, I don't know anyone who rejects the idea that the vast majority of crime in the United States is committed by U.S. citizens, given that they constitute the vast majority of the population within its borders.
		So none of that would be surprising to me.
		I do not see any effort to hide that.
		I think it's very plain in the data that the vast majority of crime is, in fact, committed by U.S. citizens.
		But that does not mean, I don't think, that we should leave immigration enforcement off the table.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Arthur in Washington, D.C., or excuse me, we'll start with Sandy in California, Democratic Color.
		Arthur, you're next.
		But Sandy, go ahead first.
unidentified		Thank you, Greta.
		Good morning.
		I am calling because this gentleman mentioned that crime is concentrated in certain areas in large cities.
		Basically, yes, that's true.
		Most of crime, most of the crime in the country is committed in areas that are poor.
		This president is governing by fiat.
		Most of the executive orders, which are not law, only Congress can initiate a law, and then he can sign it.
		But he cannot in and of himself create laws out of ten year, and that's what he's doing.
		I don't want to live in a police state, which is what's being created by violating the Posse Comitatus Act.
		And I know you're going to disagree with that, but it hasn't quite been fully litigated yet in terms of what he's doing and sending troops onto our streets.
		But I don't want to live in that kind of a society.
		I don't want to live in a society where your every action is scrutinized.
		I have to show my papers when I try to go up and down the streets going about my normal business.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Sandy, let's get a response from Mr. Manguel.
unidentified		Yeah, so there are a couple of points that I would respond to there.
		I mean, the first is that I have been going about my daily life and walking the streets in the city of New York and the suburbs of New York ever since this president took office.
		I have not ever been stopped or asked for papers, nor does anyone I know, nor has anyone I know been stopped or asked for their papers.
		I don't think that under any version of events, we could say that we live in a police state.
		I mean, just take the case of Irina Zarutska, the young woman who was murdered on a North Carolina public transit in the public transit system in that state.
		I mean, she was killed by a man who had 14 prior arrests.
		If we lived in a police state, someone with 14 prior arrests would be in prison.
		They would not be walking the streets free to kill.
		And unfortunately, that case was not an outlier.
		This is something that we see in cities across the country in places like Chicago.
		The average number of prior arrests for a homicide or shooting suspect is 12.
		In Washington, D.C., it's 11.
		In Baltimore, it's 10.
		So the idea that we live in a police state, I think, just doesn't hold any water.
		But there was a mention of the fact that the places in this country in which crime concentrates are also where poverty concentrates.
		And that's something that we often hear a lot as a response in a lot of debates about criminal justice policy.
		And I would just say that the evidence on this just goes in the other direction.
		It is not the case that poverty causes the kinds of violent crime that this administration is concerned about.
		And there are a couple of examples I can give to just bear this out.
		I mean, take New York City, for example.
		In 1989, the year before New York City peaked in terms of homicides with 2,262 in 1990, the poverty rate was actually slightly lower than it was in 2016, which is the year before New York City hit its valley for homicides with just 292 in 2017.
		Now, how a city declines the number of homicides by violent crime, I'm sorry, the number of homicides by 90% without doing anything about poverty, I think really just pokes a massive hole in that argument.
		And there's other really good data.
		I mean, studies showing that natural experiments where individuals lose public subsidies or welfare benefits and what we see in terms of the crime that those populations commit in the aftermath of those events show that there's really no connection to serious violence.
		There is some connection to property crime, but marginal, not significant.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Arthur in Washington, D.C., Independent.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Arthur, did you support the president having the National Guard here?
unidentified		Absolutely.
		I see like, you know, every time I'm in a bad area where it's dark and a little scary, I usually see military now, and they're usually smiling.
		And I say hi, and I thank them for being here.
		I just wanted to ask you this morning, thank you.
		Love the show.
		And, you know, we have red stars in our flight here.
		I watched the debate in New York last night.
		And Momdani has this red star on his back on his latest Instagram post.
		I just want to understand how does socialism affect crime and does it have anything to do with social media?
		How does that tie into socialism?
		Yeah, I mean, I don't know that the doctrine of socialism would have any immediate impact on crime, but I can tell you that the policies that Zoma Mamdani has espoused will absolutely affect crime and in the worst way possible.
		You know, he has, he was the only candidate on stage yesterday who declined to offer a plan to increase the number of MIPD officers.
		That department has gotten down to just about 33,000 officers when it was at about 40,000 at the turn of the century.
		It is a department that is struggling with recruitment and retention.
		He doesn't seem to have a plan for that.
		He did not mention, nor did any of the other candidates mention, Rikers Island, which he has previously expressed support for closing and not replacing.
		So I think that those policies, to the extent that we see a lot of overlap between the people who support the decarcerationist and depolicing policies that Mamdani has espoused and people who support socialist policies, maybe there's a connection there.
		Don't think that there's something inherent about socialism that necessarily leads to a higher crime, but I do think that many of the sort of more notable socialist candidates or Democratic socialist candidates like Zora Mamdani, AOC, have espoused policies that will absolutely make our cities less safe.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		And if you missed the New York City Mayor debate, you can find it on our website at c-span.org, sponsored by WNBC and Politico, and you can find it there if you go to c-span.org.
		We want to thank them for letting us show you that debate here on the C-SPAN networks.
		Laura in Texas, a Republican.
unidentified		Yes, Lou.
		I am very concerned because I feel like what's happening was a setup by the Biden administration.
		So many illegal, so many people were misled by the Biden administration to come here, and they were extorted by traffickers.
		And they paid a lot of money.
		A lot of them did come to the United States under the false impression that the Biden administration would keep them and let them live here forever.
		But unfortunately, with those, there were a lot of good people who really just wanted a better life, but there were also a lot of bad people.
		And it's just created chaos.
		So when you're lawless, when your administration is lawless, then you set up a condition that creates chaos.
		And the next administration either has to clean it up, which is what Trump promised to do, or the next administration has to deal with it and possibly make it worse.
		So we're dealing with Biden's import of millions of illegals.
		We saw it every day.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Laura, heard your point.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Mungual, do you agree with her?
unidentified		Yeah, look, I mean, I do think that the Biden administration's policies at the border absolutely invited chaos.
		And I do think that it created a lot of unfortunate situations where people from around the world took a good part of their treasure to take a chance on starting a new life in the United States of America, which is still the greatest country in the world, which is why so many people want to come here.
		Unfortunately, many of those people have had that investment completely zeroed out.
		But that is just a natural consequence of the disorderly way in which the Biden administration went about this.
		I mean, the United States is still one of the most generous nations in the world with respect to legal immigration.
		But a country cannot be a country if it does not have any rules about who gets to cross its borders.
		And what the Trump administration is doing now is unfortunately trying to clean up the mess that was left by the prior administration.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Jerome in Lorain, Ohio, Democratic caller.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Question or comment here for our guest.
unidentified		Okay, hi.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		I do have a question now.
		If there were so many millions of dollars taken away from federal law enforcement agencies that their specific job is to deter crime, I don't understand where he's saying that he's going to bring in a temporary military force that's not going to be stable.
		And if the military force is only going to be temporary, where is that going to have a lasting impact on the crime rate?
		If he's really trying to solve crime, wouldn't he directly want to work with federal professionals that their whole career is structured around law enforcement and trying to target crime and work with the actual city professionals?
		I don't understand where he's actually, if he's actually targeting crime, why isn't he working with career professionals to really systematically, systemically take care of these so-called high crime cities step by step?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We'll take your question, Jerome.
unidentified		Yeah, no, I think that's a good question, and it's something that the administration is actually doing, right?
		If you look at the surge in Washington, D.C., I think I would say that there's probably as much of a crime suppression effect from the deployment of other federal agencies like HSI, FBI, DEA, ATF, as there was as a result of the deployment of the National Guard.
		I don't think that the National Guard is sort of seen as the first and foremost crime suppression tool that the federal government is trying to deploy.
		The policing executive order from April of this year that I mentioned earlier, one of the components of that executive order was actually to redeploy joint federal task forces through Homeland Security to work with local law enforcement agencies on suppressing crime where there is concurrent federal jurisdiction.
		And we have seen a re-emphasis on charges like those under Title 18 of the United States Code under Section 922G, which affects prohibited possessors of illegal firearms.
		So there's been sort of a rededication to pushing that, to pushing drug charges, to doing gang sweeps, where dozens of gang members are sort of taken up in the same arrest sweep for federal charges where the predicates are often drugs and guns, where there's jurisdictional overlap.
		So I absolutely agree that that is the better approach.
		But I do think that there are problems in some parts of the country where the National Guard can help, right?
		For example, securing federal facilities that are consistently under siege and just having a presence that can have a short-term deterrent effect.
		But you're absolutely right.
		That is one of the limiting factors of this kind of approach, which is that to the extent that people can't be everywhere all at once all the time, when they leave, the impact will not be lasting.
		But the hope is that it sets an example that states and localities can follow, and that could be lasting.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Laurel Marilyn Bruce is watching there, an independent.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Morning, Bruce.
unidentified		Morning.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		I have two quick points.
		First, I watched you interview when you did a debate with Radley Balco.
		And as of someone on the left, I was impressed that you seem to have the honest side.
		But I was reading the debate first.
		You said, and you thought Jimmy Kimmel lied, so he should be gotten rid of.
		The same thing, Comey, he's on trial, but we know he has no reason for that.
		I just don't think those are things that my other statement, which you may agree with, I mean, take going to cities.
		We know that getting out of cops in crime cities lowers crime.
		So the fact that Trump is doing that is going to work, but it doesn't seem like the right way to do it.
		He's cherry-picking the cities, plus, he rather than give money to the police.
		I don't know, maybe you agree with that, but I think that's the way to do it.
		Thank you very much.
		No, I absolutely think that directing more federal resources to police is a good thing, and the president has committed to doing that.
		Again, his April executive order, one of the first things, components of that order is to direct federal agencies to identify funds that can be sent to local law enforcement agencies specifically for the purpose of recruiting and retaining police officers.
		So that's absolutely a number one priority.
		And I suspect that the president is going to be working with Congress at some point during the course of this presidency to do the same on a much larger scale.
		I do appreciate you watching the debate with Mr. Balco, who I haven't heard from in a long time.
		I hope he's well.
		But thank you.
		I appreciate the support.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Karen in Ohio, Republican.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, Karen, with your question or comment.
unidentified		My comment is that I'm really glad that somebody is cleaning up the streets in D.C.
		A lot of school groups go to D.C. for their history club trips or civic trips, and They should be able to walk around the streets without fear.
		Whenever my daughter went in 1993, she was followed into the restroom by a homeless man, and she had a bad scare.
		Luckily, she came back home alive.
		But yes, my granddaughter is going in the spring, and I'm thankful that Mr. Trump is cleaning up crime in the city.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Mr. Manguel?
unidentified		Yeah, I think a lot of Americans feel the same way.
		And not just, you know, people who are, you know, hoping to take advantage of cities like Washington, D.C. as tourists, but also residents, right?
		I mean, Washington, D.C. is a city that has been struggling, particularly in the Eastside wards, with serious crime for a long time.
		And to the extent that those communities are able to get some sense of relief, I think can be, you know, a significant improvement in daily life.
		And I hope that those things continue.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Ted in Boston, Independent.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, Ted.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Three points here.
		Greta, I think I've watched you since your first day on Washington Journal, and I don't ever say this, but thank you for your service.
		And it reminds me of the days past where C-SPAN would have high-quality guests, sometimes even from both sides.
		And it brings me to my next second point of three points, and I'll try to keep this short, where, you know, this guy lost me after he tried to link crime increase after the pandemic to immigration.
		The data doesn't agree with that.
		And listen, I don't care if you want to fix this supposed influx, or I'll give you credit, you know, there was an influx after the pandemic.
		Okay.
		But if you're going to sit here and be disingenuous and use these mouthpiece talking points and waste my 9 a.m. on a Friday, you know, it really just feels like a degradation of quality and being genuine.
		And I really want to communicate that to the guests because I've watched them ever since that comment over the last 20 minutes.
		And every single thing is the same thing.
		You know, someone, this third point, someone called in talking about the police state of New York.
		And this guy's response is, well, they didn't do it to me.
		And you know what?
		Listen, we all see this with our own eyes.
		And you're not going to pull this over on us.
		Okay.
		So my request is if you're going to sit here and do that to us, go find another profession.
		Do something more productive and have a backbone.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Well, Ted, let's let our guests give a response.
unidentified		I'll keep my current career path where it is for now.
		And I think you may have wasted your own 9 a.m. hour because I think if you go back and read the transcript, you'll see that I never said that the post COVID crime increase was driven by immigration.
		And I didn't say it because that's not something that I believe.
		I think that the post-COVID crime increase was likely driven by depolicing and decarceration.
		We saw both the prison and jail populations decrease very, very sharply in a very short period of time.
		We saw the number of arrests and stops being affected by local police departments plummet through the floor.
		And I think those things had a much more significant explanatory power for the post-COVID crime increase.
		However, that does not mean that we should not be doing immigration enforcement, which, you know, I think those laws are justifiably enforced on their own merits, irrespective of whether and to what degree it contributes to overall crime rates in American cities.
		That law is a law.
		It's there for a reason.
		I think Americans wanted those laws enforced, and I think they should be enforced.
		As for the police state, again, I mean, just, you know, take a recent example of New York.
		And we had a horrific murder in our subway system in Brooklyn just about a week ago, where an individual with 33 prior arrests beat a 65-year-old man to death, according to police.
		So, you know, again, if we actually lived in a police state, we would not have individuals who are walking the streets right now with criminal histories more extensive than Americans could possibly imagine.
		So I just reject the premise entirely.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Ron in Maryland, Democratic caller, you're next.
unidentified		Good morning, and thanks, C-SPAN.
		In the 80s, Australia had a worse crime rate than the United States.
		And they got rid of all the guns.
		And the crime rate now, if you check Australia now, the crime rate is doggone zero.
		Now, the only way we're going to clear crime up in America is stop these Republicans from putting all these guns in our cities.
		Now, they got one manufacturer in the United States that manufacture Glock guns.
		And I don't know, but the most Americans probably don't know.
		Glock guns don't even have a safety on them.
		And they got all these guns going to all the major cities like Baltimore and New York, Chicago.
		And, you know, if you keep putting all these guns in the major cities for these kids to use, you're going to have a crime rate.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Ron, let's take that point about guns.
		Mr. Mangua.
unidentified		Yeah, well, I think, you know, the biggest hole in that argument is what happened to gun crime between 1990 and 2015 or even today.
		You know, Democrats love to tout the fact that as bad as crime got post-2020, it was never as bad as it was in the 1990s.
		And that's true to some extent, although I don't think that matters very much to a lot of the people who were experiencing the brunt of that spike.
		But the reality is that between 1990 and 2014, America saw its homicide rate plummet by 15%.
		That was a period of time in which gun rights were significantly expanded in 2008, 2010, and then Bruin.
		You had the number of guns in private circulation increase by the millions over that period of about 30 years.
		So the idea that we need to get rid of guns in order to control crime, I think has just been belied by what the data show us.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Michael is down in Austin, Texas, a Republican.
		Good morning, Michael.
		Your turn.
unidentified		Howdy.
		Okay, so a few things I want to say, and my ideas on this have not been fully fleshed out as the political landscape is always fluid.
		I do want to say that I did vote for Trump, and I am having and experiencing a bit of regret as it relates to that as his administration begins to fold.
		So a lot of the callers have expressed sentiments about the police state.
		And the panelist that you have on, no disrespect to him, I don't think he's understanding people's angst because this is a very real thing when you kind of have some foresight.
		Just look at Larry Ellison, who is now worth $35 billion, excuse me, because of him injecting AI into Oracle.
		His goal, and he's had stated this expressly on record, that his goal is to put all data into one place under an AI model.
		That does equate to absolute power.
		AI trained on full-spectrum personal data.
		It does enable behavioral prediction, risk scoring.
		You can ask it questions.
		They want to take our fragmented data of health, finance, communication, biometrics, and inject it into a unified AI model.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Michael, tie that back to what we're talking about here.
unidentified		People are concerned about the police state.
		Now, my dissonance, my cognitive dissonance, is that, you know, we say this is wrong, but we don't provide an alternate solution, which is why I did vote Republican this way this time around because the Democrats were not presenting a better alternative.
		But I am very concerned at the Trump administration.
		Yes, he is the commander-in-chief.
		He has control of the National Guard and all of the military.
		I do understand that.
		But the way Trump is moving, it does feel like that is the direction we're going to a police state.
		I know we're not having to check our papers now, but we're not in Nazi Germany.
		We shouldn't have to worry about all of our data and anything we say and do online being monitored to the point where we're being scored on that.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Okay, got it.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Michael, Rafael Mangwa.
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, I share the sentiment.
		I do not want to live in a country in which every single aspect of my life is being scrutinized by the federal government and decisions are being made about what I can and can't do on that basis.
		But I don't think that we're there or that we will be there.
		I trust in the strength of our Constitution to ensure that our liberties are protected.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		David, South Carolina Independent.
unidentified		Yeah, good morning.
		Thank you for having me.
		Just to start out, I'm generally in agreement with your guest on most things, and he is impressively eloquent and pragmatic.
		But I guess I disagree in one sense in that he feels that we should stay with having National Guard go to cities where we're invited, basically, for the reason that it would make more sense.
		I think we should go into those, we should leave the cities that have high crime rate and let them deal with it themselves.
		And if we go into other cities and clean them up, then it will make the sanctuary cities even more likely to get more criminals.
		And they'll get what they get.
		And eventually they'll have to deal with that.
		Additionally, with Mr. Mamdani, as far as mayor in New York, it's just as with Biden.
		He made things so bad on numerous fronts that he was thrown out.
		And I think the same thing's going to happen with Mr. Modame, that they'll see that this is not a good way to do things.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Rafael Mangual.
unidentified		Yeah, look, I mean, this is a sentiment that I hear a lot, especially online.
		This is, you know, this idea that sort of voters deserve what they voted for.
		And, you know, I understand where that sentiment comes from, but I just can't get behind it.
		I mean, at the end of the day, you're talking about jurisdictions in which many of the people did not have a say in the policies, in which many of the people disagreed with the party that won out and that is doing harm on the public safety front.
		You have children who don't get a voice, who don't get a chance to vote, who have to deal with the fallout of these policies.
		So I think it's absolutely part of the government's responsibility to dedicate resources to those places, even the ones that seem intransigent and sort of committed to the worst possible ideas, because there are lots of good people in those jurisdictions that deserve the protection, even from their own local leaders.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Ray is our last call in Las Vegas, Republican.
unidentified		Yes, I was just want to comment on all about all these people complaining about, you know, the keys of James and all these people are being charged.
		Well, whatever happened, nobody's above the law.
		They had no problem going after Trump.
		And Adam said, he actually lied during the impeachment, but he could get away with it because within the rules.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, Ray, we're talking about the president's efforts to crack down on crime across U.S. cities.
		Rafael Mangual, your final thoughts here.
		What are you watching for next?
		And how will you judge success?
unidentified		Well, I think what I'm watching for next is what the follow-up on these efforts is going to be.
		What I'd really, really love to see is for the administration to work with Congress on some kind of significant legislative effort to send more money for police recruitment and retention, something on the order of what was done to the 1994 crime bill.
		Would love to see the federal government really push on something along the lines of a habitual offender statute that will take aim at repeat offenders and give states and localities a model with which to approach that problem.
		And I think if it does those two things, that will send the signals necessary to state and local authorities to follow suit.
		And if that happens, I do think that we can re-enter a period of American prosperity in which Americans are finally able to take their safety for granted again.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Rafael Mangual is the fellow at Manhattan Institute, author of Criminal Injustice, What the Push for Decarceration and Depolicing Gets Wrong and Who It Hurts the Most.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Mangual, thank you for the conversation this morning.
unidentified		Thank you so much for having me back.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We're going to take a short break.
		When we come back, we will be in open forum.
		Here are the lines on your screen.
		We're also waiting to hear from minority leader Hakeem Jeffries, Democrat of New York.
		He is slated to talk to reporters right there on your screen on Capitol Hill about the 17th day of the government shutdown.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		On the premiere of C-SPAN Ceasefire, Republican Mike Pence and Democrat Rahm Emanuel reflected on their unexpected friendship and found common ground on one of the world's most pressing issues, Israel and Hamas.
		And I have no problem with it.
		President Trump deserves credit here.
		Some of them I probably won't say that.
tim kaine ▲ ● ▼		I'm grateful for Rob speaking plainly about giving President Trump credit here.
unidentified		Today, governors from opposite ends of the political map come together from Deep Red, Oklahoma to Solid Blue, Maryland.
unidentified		Democratic Governor Wes Moore and Republican Governor Kevin Stitt sit down with host Dasha Burns.
dasha burns ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to Ceasefire, where we seek to bridge the divide in American politics.
unidentified		For a conversation, not a confrontation.
		Red meets blue.
		Great Plains meets Mid-Atlantic today at 7 p.m. Eastern and Pacific.
		Ceasefire, only on C-SPAN.
		This Sunday, watch the premiere of C-SPAN's bold new original series, America's Book Club, with our guest, John Grisham, former politician, lawyer, and best-selling author, whose books, including A Time to Kill, The Firm, and The Pelican Brief.
		He joins our host, renowned author and civic leader David Rubenstein.
john grisham ▲ ● ▼		We just sold a film much of the firm to Paramount for more money than I've made in 10 years of practice and law.
david rubenstein ▲ ● ▼		After you heard that, how long after that did you quit the practice alone?
john grisham ▲ ● ▼		15 minutes.
unidentified		Watch America's Book Club with John Grisham, Sunday at 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN.
unidentified		Washington Journal continues.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back to the Washington Journal.
		We have entered day 17 of the government shutdown here in Washington.
		The Democratic leader in the House, Hakeem Jeffries, expected to come to the microphone right there and on your screen on Capitol Hill to talk to reporters as they end the week here in Washington still in a stalemate.
		The two sides no closer to solving this impasse.
		We'll also hear from there's Hakeem Jeffries.
		Let's go and listen in now.
hakeem jeffries ▲ ● ▼		Shut down and the House and Senate Democratic position remains the same.
		We look forward to sitting down with anyone, anytime, any place, either here at the Capitol or back at the White House, to reopen the government, to enact a spending agreement that actually makes life better for the American people, while also addressing decisively the Republican health care crisis that continues to hurt everyday Americans all across the country.
		Every day that goes by, there are people throughout America receiving notices that their health care premiums, co-pays, and deductibles are about to skyrocket.
		In the district in upstate New York, the North Country, currently represented by Elise Stefanik, there are couples who currently pay about $2,000 per year for their health insurance premiums because they benefit from Affordable Care Act tax credits.
		When those credits go away, that same couple will now pay more than $20,000 a year.
		They cannot afford that.
		These are working-class Americans living paycheck to paycheck, struggling to get by, can barely survive, yet alone thrive in this country.
		And this is the wealthiest country in the history of the world.
		So House and Senate Democrats are going to continue to hold firm as it relates to a basic common sense position that when we enact spending bills, we should be helping the American people, not hurting them.
		And so we will not support a partisan Republican spending bill that continues to gut the health care of the American people.
		But we will continue to extend that offer to our Republican colleagues and to President Trump and members of his administration.
		Let's sit down in good faith to reopen the government, to stand by our hardworking federal employees, to enact a spending bill that actually improves the quality of life of the American people and to address the health care crisis that Republicans have created, devastating people all across the country, including in rural America, in black and brown communities all throughout America, in urban America, in the heartland of America, and in small-town America.
		Questions?
unidentified		Thank you.
		It's looking increasingly unlikely that the shutdown will end before the end of the month.
		And some of the members of your conference has said the Delphi OPX at the end of the month during the shutdown.
		Are you going to make the same commitment now that it's been closer?
hakeem jeffries ▲ ● ▼		We have a caucus meeting later on today.
hakeem jeffries ▲ ● ▼		I think that's going to be one of the issues that we'll discuss.
unidentified		You are demanding that for holidays this afternoon, and if she is not, what are you planning on doing?
unidentified		And are you going to be there for the program?
hakeem jeffries ▲ ● ▼		All options are on the table with respect to Representative-elect Adelita Grajalva.
		It's shameful that she has not been sworn in because Speaker Johnson and House Republicans apparently want to continue to hide the Jeffrey Epstein files from the American people.
		This has gone on now for weeks.
		And so it's my expectation that if she is not sworn in today, during the pro forma session today, as the Arizona Attorney General has made clear, expect swift and decisive legal action.
unidentified		Following up on Rahalva, did you hear back from the Speaker in response to the letter that you're saying we have stressed?
hakeem jeffries ▲ ● ▼		I have not heard back from the Speaker yet, but House Republicans and Senate Republicans have gone radio silent since the Oval Office meeting that took place about three weeks ago because they have no defensible position.
		Their position is we want to continue to benefit the wealthy, the well-off, and the well-connected and promote the lifestyles of the rich and shameless.
		That's the Republican position.
		That's what they did with their one big ugly bill.
		Largest cut to Medicaid in American history, devastating people across the country, ripping food from the mouths of children.
		And they did all of that so they could reward their billionaire donors with massive permanent tax breaks.
		And now with the Affordable Care Act tax credits expiring, they have zero interest in spending a dime to help out working class Americans.
		By the way, same group of people that found $20 billion matched by another $20 billion that the American taxpayers will be on the hook for $40 billion in total to bail out Argentina and they can't find a dime to protect the health care of the American people.
		This is extraordinary stuff and no word from the Speaker about any of it because they just continue unfortunately to be rubber stamps for Donald Trump's extreme agenda.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Leader Jeffries, who needs open jeffers.
		Leader Jeffries, Hakeem Jeffries, Democrat of New York there on Capitol Hill live this morning right here on C-SPAN.
		If you want to continue to him, listen to him taking questions, you can do so over on C-SPAN 3 here in the Washington Journal.
		We're going to pivot here to open forum.
		We can get your response to what you heard there from the Democratic leader on day 17 of the government shutdown.
		There are the lines on your screen, or any other public policy or political issue that's on your mind.
		We will also hear today at 10 a.m. Eastern Time from the Speaker of the House.
		He'll hold his own news conference as leaders of both parties have done so during these weeks of the government shutdown.
		Speaker Mike Johnson, along with his other GOP leaders, they'll be before the podium.
		You can watch live here on C-SPAN, online on demand at c-span.org, or download our free video mobile app.
		You also heard the Democratic leader there talking about Adelita Grijalva.
		She was elected in a special election to represent a district in Arizona.
		And as he said there, he repeated what he had said yesterday.
		And that's when there is a pro forma session at 2 p.m. Eastern Time.
		Keep an eye out for what Democrats will do to pressure the Speaker to swear in Representative-elect Grijalva.
		And you heard Hakeem Jeffries there telling a group of reporters again that all options are on the table and indicating that there will be legal action by the Arizona Attorney General.
		Let's turn to calls.
		Mark in Oklahoma, Democratic caller.
		Mark, good morning to you.
		We're in open forum.
unidentified		Yes, ma'am, from your past guest that you had on talking about crime, there, I presume it's still going on, an aspen furniture is made by prisoners.
		And it's some high-dollar selling furniture.
		There's some old gentlemen that teach the men how to make furniture.
		And last I knew, they only have a handful that ever come back to prison.
		Most of them get out.
		They have a $12 to $25 better hour job.
		And they pay for their own incarceration out of the sale of the furniture and their wages.
		And also, the government is by the people for the people.
		We are the board of directors.
		And I think Congress and the House and the President and the Vice President have forgotten this message.
		And when the President gets up there and makes hard comments that is like the Charlie's funeral, that I don't care about the other side and stuff, and it's supposed to be for peace.
		I think that sends a wrong message to the American citizens.
		Just get up and say what you want to say and do what you want to do and causes trouble.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Mark.
		Nikki is in Rockaway Park, New York, Republican.
		Nikki, let's turn to you.
unidentified		I'm not a Republican.
unidentified		I'll never be that.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Okay, why'd you excuse me?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		You called in on the Republican line, but go ahead.
unidentified		Totally independent.
unidentified		So if you want me to shut up and call back another day, I will.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Well, we'll take you this time.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, Nikki.
unidentified		Okay.
		This is nothing to do with politics.
		This is something to do with C-SPAN.
		You are wonderful because you allow people to have a forum.
		But many people have called in and they would like to know who and how, what is the criteria for choosing the guests, the hosts that you have on.
		Now, I know these are timely situations.
		One thing happens one day, another thing happens another day, but who?
		And does the moderator have any choice?
		The second thing is a suggestion.
		You know, you broadcast Senate hearings, House hearings.
		So I'd like to make an analogy.
		I think you would be better off if your moderators, you included, every one of you, did it like a hearing.
		You know, you introduce the witness, your guest, and you let him speak for five, three minutes, 45-minute segments, right?
		You let them speak for three minutes, and then you allow your people to call in.
		You allow people to filibuster.
		I don't care what side you're on.
		I think you should have better rules.
		I have a rule that I can only call every 30 days.
		I think that this should be a rule that you can only speak for so many minutes before you allow somebody else to ask and have them answer a question in two minutes.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Nikki, thank you for the feedback.
		We appreciate it.
		A little bit about how we ask our guests to come on or how we choose the guests to come on.
		There are a team of producers for the Washington Journal, and they work to balance out different perspectives and opinions from both sides of the aisle on all sorts of issues.
		So if you're interested in our approach, just go to our video library, take a look at what we do over an extended period of time, and you'll see that we do our very best to try to balance the presentation of the debates that are happening here in Washington.
		Another story to share with you this morning, a couple of you have brought up this money to Argentina.
		Here's the Associated Press.
		U.S. is working on doubling aid to Argentina to $40 billion by tapping private funding sources.
		Here's the breakdown.
		The Trump administration is looking to provide an additional $20 billion in financing for Argentina through a mix of financing from sovereign funds and the private sector.
		That would come on top of the $20 billion credit swap line that the U.S. Treasury pledged to the Argentine president and his government this month to bolster the South American nation's collapsing currency.
		So that's the breakdown this morning from the Associated Press.
		Mike is in Oak Grove, Missouri, an independent.
		Hi, Mike.
unidentified		Good morning, Greta.
		You look lovely as always.
		I don't know the Trump efforts on deferring crime.
		What a joke that is.
cliven bundy ▲ ● ▼		We're talking, you know, there can never be justice in this country until Donald Trump has to face Jack Smith and his team.
unidentified		They need to be brought back with a judge who's not wholly on Donald Trump's side of things.
		Then we'll talk about justice.
		How about Donald Trump?
		First thing he did when he got in office was let 1,600 people go who defecated in our state, in our capital of our country.
cliven bundy ▲ ● ▼		They tore things up, ramsacked our, and he let all those people off.
unidentified		He pardoned 1,600 people who attacked our capital.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Mike, let me go to Russell, who's in San Jose, California.
		Democratic caller.
		Russell, what's on your mind this morning?
		We are in open forum.
unidentified		All right.
		So this is a first-time caller for me.
		So a couple things I've been wanting to get off my chest.
		The first thing with immigration, what I believe is this, instead of spending all this money and ICE and all this thing, all you have to do is real simple, is just make it a felony for any employee that hires illegal people.
		So if they have no job to come to and you go to prison, then that'll solve that.
		The other thing is this.
		For all the people that are saying what a great job Donald Trump is doing, ask yourself this.
		Is food going down like he told you?
		Did he stop all the things that he said he was going to stop?
		You know, the war over in one day?
		And the last thing is this, okay?
		How do you say you cannot take care of America?
		Because MAGA is supposed to be America first.
		How come it's not America first that you're sending $20 billion to a different company, to a different country?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Russell, I'm going to jump in at that point, pick up on what you talked about in the war between Russia and Ukraine.
		The president of Ukraine, Mr. Zelensky, will be at the White House today.
		He'll arrive around 1 p.m. Eastern Time and is slated to have lunch with the president and the president's administration shortly after that.
		This is the fourth face-to-face visit of the second term of the president for Mr. Zelensky and Mr. Trump.
		And this follows what the president had to say yesterday at the White House about an upcoming meeting with the Russian president.
		Take a listen.
john thune ▲ ● ▼		You've also posted about your call with President Putin today.
unidentified		You spoke about meeting in Hungary with him.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I would say within two weeks or so, pretty quick.
		Marco Rubio is going to be meeting with his counterpart, as you know, Labrov.
		And they'll be meeting pretty soon.
		They're going to set up a time and a place very shortly.
		Maybe it's already set up.
		They've already spoken.
		And I thought it was a very good phone call.
		I thought it was very productive.
		But I'll be meeting with President Putin, and we'll make a determination.
		Tomorrow I'm meeting with President Zelensky, and I'll be telling him about the call.
		I mean, we have a problem.
		They don't get along too well, those two.
		And it's sometimes tough to have meetings, so we may do something where we're separate, but separate but equal.
		We'll meet and talk to parties, but this is a terrible relationship the two of them have, and it's one of those things.
		I've seen things that nobody would believe, but this is one of them.
		So I'll be meeting.
		We're going to be meeting in Hungary.
		Victor Orban is going to be hosting.
		And that's really something that's time.
		Last week, over 7,000 people were killed.
		That's ridiculous.
		And you know, it doesn't affect our country.
		We're not losing people.
		We're not losing Bobby.
		We're not losing Americans.
		But they're losing Russians, Ukrainians, mostly soldiers, for the most part, soldiers.
		And we think we're going to get, we hope we're going to get it stopped.
		I thought this would be, because of my relationship with President Putin, I thought this would be very quick.
		And it's turned out to be, who would think I did Middle East before I did this?
		We did a total of eight now, seven and now eight.
		And we're going to make this number nine.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		President Trump yesterday talking about an upcoming meeting with the Russian president.
		Today, he'll be meeting with the Ukrainian president.
		Look for our coverage on the C-SPAN network, c-span.org, and online at c-span.org and our free video mobile app, C-SPANNow.
		Donna in Jacksonville, Florida, Republican.
		Donna.
unidentified		Yes, thank you.
		I actually have a question for your guest, and that is in regards to an earlier statement that federal dollars will help to fund the police, which we need to do on the state level.
		But my concern is, do you agree that if we don't address the fact that even when police are out there doing a great job, all they do is see the same criminal out back on the street.
		Two days later, we see mayors and chief of police telling the frontline police to downgrade felonies to misdemeanors and to not prosecute 17-year-old violent criminals because they're a minor.
		And so if we're really going to attack the criminal element and decrease crime in these cities, do you agree that just by funding the police is not enough?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Donna, we are not, I have a guest right now.
		We're in open forum here on the Washington Journal for the remainder of today's program.
		We'll hear from Sandra next in Florida, Democratic Caller.
unidentified		Hi, I'm Sandra.
		And I just would like to ask the Republicans how they feel that we are sending $40 billion to Argentina, and yet we can't find enough money to give the American people the medical needs they need to survive.
		I wish somebody could answer that question.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Sandra in Florida, Democratic Caller, with her thoughts this morning.
		More of yours coming up here.
		But first, in case you missed it, the mayoral debate in New York City last night took place.
		NBC was a sponsor along with Politico, and we were able to air that on our networks.
		Take a look at this moment between the independent candidate, the former Governor Andrew Cuomo, and Mr. Mamdani, the assemblyman and Democratic candidate in New York.
unidentified		This is no job for on-the-job training.
andrew cuomo ▲ ● ▼		And if you look at the failed mayors, they're ones that had no management experience.
unidentified		Don't do it again.
zohran mamdani ▲ ● ▼		You know, I have the experience of having served in the New York State Assembly for five years and watching a broken political system, the experience of seeing a governor in Andrew Cuomo who would rather have served his billionaire donors and the working class New Yorkers who voted for him.
		And the experience amidst all of that of fighting and winning for working class taxi drivers to free them from predatory debt and delivering the first free bus lines in New York City history and working with unions and working class New Yorkers to finally raise taxes just that little bit on Mr. Cuomo's donors to start to fully fund our public school.
		And more than that, I have the experience of being a New Yorker, someone who has actually paid rent in the city before I ran for mayor, someone who has had to wait for a bus that never came, someone who actually buys his groceries in this same city.
		And what all of that experience has shown me, which Mr. Cuomo can't seem to understand, is that it is far too expensive and far too hard for New Yorkers to afford to live in this city.
		And the definition of experience is not doing the same thing again and again and hoping for a different result.
		That's actually the definition of insanity.
unidentified		Thank you, Mr. Mamdani.
		If I can, I think I was invoked.
		Yes.
andrew cuomo ▲ ● ▼		In other words, what the assemblyman said is he has no experience.
		And this is not a job for someone who has no management experience to run 300,000 people, no financial experience to run $115 billion budget.
		He literally has never had a job.
unidentified		On his resume, it says he interned for his mother.
andrew cuomo ▲ ● ▼		This is not a job for a first-timer.
andrew cuomo ▲ ● ▼		Any day you could have a hurricane, God forbid, a 9-11, a health pandemic.
unidentified		If you don't know what you're doing, people are going to be able to do it.
zohran mamdani ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Mamdani, if you want to respond.
		And if we have a health pandemic, then why would New Yorkers turn back to the governor who sent seniors to their death in nursing homes?
		That's the kind of experience that's on offer here today.
		What I don't have in experience, I make up for an integrity.
		And what you don't have in integrity, you could never make up for in experience.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		The mayor debate in New York City last night.
		Again, you can find it on our website at c-span.org.
		Barry in Dodge City, Kansas, a Republican.
		Barry, good morning to you.
		We're an open forum.
		Barry, are you there in Dodge City, Kansas?
unidentified		Yes, I am.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, we're listening to you.
unidentified		I was thinking about law and order.
		How about just maintain the laws that are on the books, federal, state, and local.
		Get rid of the get rid of the politics in them.
		Take the handcuffs off the cops.
		And if they do go up against those laws, the government does have the right to defend itself.
		I'm talking about the ICE officers.
		They can wear their masks.
		They can do whatever it's necessary to maintain law and order.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Barry.
		Elizabeth is in Franklin, Michigan, Democratic caller.
		Elizabeth, we'll turn to you.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		This president is taking the United States down, down, down.
		I don't know why he's being allowed all this power.
		Even Nixon, they encouraged him to leave the office, and somebody needs to encourage this man.
		He's ruining the United States.
		He's not going by any rules.
		He's planning to stay here.
		That's why he's doing the ballroom and all that.
		If you are not an American Indian, Native American, you are an immigrant here.
		And I just don't understand the power that he's been given.
		He's rude.
		He's trying to be presidential, but he's not.
		The money given to other countries, and we're not taking care of the people here.
		And what's his name, Johnson?
		He's just acting like a bad kid in the playground and all the people standing behind him.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Elizabeth, we're going to hear from Speaker Mike Johnson here momentarily.
		He's expected to give a news conference at 10 a.m. Eastern Time, and we'll have live coverage here on C-SPAN on our free video mobile app, C-SPANNOW or online on demand at c-span.org.
		Alan, we are an open forum in Rhinelander, Wisconsin, and Independent.
unidentified		Good morning, Greta, GCIF.
		So I've got a comment about student loans in this country.
		You know, you mentioned Speaker Johnson.
		The Department of Education is sucking more interest, aka profit out of the state of Louisiana than all the shrimp and other agricultural products that that state exports every year.
		Student loans are a hidden cancer on this country.
		And right now, it's literally the worst time ever for the student loan borrower community.
		Many people are senior citizens.
		Most people are over 35, not under 35.
		This is more an older person's problem.
		But we are headed into a mass wave of defaults, and the media is not doing this justice.
		The media says, oh, we could have 10 million defaulters.
		Well, I spoke to the chief operating officer of the federal student loan program under Trump's first term last week.
		He told me that he expects 20 million people to be in default on their student loans by this time next year.
		And make no mistake, Greta, this is a predatory lending system on which the federal government actually makes a profit, not only on healthy loans, but even on defaulted loans.
		And this is because the right of bankruptcy has been stripped from the loans.
		So I would urge Donald Trump and every Republican out there watching this: you need to return the same bankruptcy protections that exist for all other loans to student loans.
		You need to put the colleges on the hook to reimburse the taxpayer for discharges.
		And you need to solve this because this is blowing up on Trump's watch, and it will take down his presidency if he does not act.
		Okay.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Bill in Greenville, Kentucky, Republican.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Bill, what's on your mind?
unidentified		Good morning.
		Good morning.
		Yeah, I was calling in.
		I would just think that so far the Trump administration 2.0 has done an astounding job.
		And for everyone on the other side, I just really encourage them to go out and maybe touch some grass this weekend.
		Other than that, that's all I have to say.
		Thank you.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Bob in Roselle, New Jersey, Democratic caller.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Bob.

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