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Oct. 11, 2025 10:59-12:57 - CSPAN

01:57:54

Washington Journal Washington Journal

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mimi geerges

cspan 17:37

trita parsi

26:23

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mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back to Washington Journal.
		Joining us to discuss the Gaza ceasefire and President Trump's Medi's peace plan is Trita Parsi.
		He's Executive Vice President at the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft.
		Welcome to the program.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much for having me.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		There is a Gaza ceasefire in effect.
		It took effect local time noon yesterday.
		What are your impressions of this moment?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		Well, if this ceasefire holds and actually translates into a complete end to the slaughter, then that obviously is a very, very good thing.
		But I think we have to be very cognizant of the fact that we've been here before.
		Trump did have an earlier deal that had several phases, but it never made it to the second phase.
		So it only ended up becoming a ceasefire, not something that actually ended this conflict.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So remind us about what happened before and why did it not, why were they not able to get to the second phase?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		Well, the previous ceasefire was essentially put in place just a few days before Trump came in.
		Trump's people were instrumental in ensuring that that happened and they put pressure on Netanyahu in order to get the Israelis to accept it.
		But from the outset, the Israeli side said that they would not go to phase two because the phase two, the whole thing would actually lead to an end to the war.
		And by March of this year, the Israelis violated that ceasefire and restarted the siege on Gaza, stopping the convoys of food getting in and started bombing again.
		And that's what we have seen now, the fighting continue, or frankly, it's not much of a fighting, it's a slaughter taking place.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And do you think that this is different now?
		I mean, in that ceasefire, you said the Israelis were not ready to end the war.
		They felt like they still had, I guess, military objectives to do.
		Now, do you think that they're ready to end the war?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		So the Israelis already back then, you had the IDF pointing out that there's no more military objectives left in Gaza.
		It was continued because of the political interest of Netanyahu and some people in his cabinet who wanted the fighting to go on for other reasons.
		In this case, part of the reason why it may end up being different is because Trump has really personalized this issue.
		He's really taking credit for it.
		He's put his name on it.
		And the hope is, the calculation is that that will make it more difficult for Netanyahu or cabinet members of his, such as Motric and others, to pull out of this agreement.
		This has been part of the demand from the Arab side that Trump really needed to step into this deal much, much more strongly than he did in the previous one in order to raise the cost for any party to walk out of this deal.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's take a look at what the White House is saying is the president's plan for Gaza, and then I'll have you comment on it.
		It says this, Gaza will be governed under the temporary transitional governance of a technocratic, apolitical Palestinian committee responsible for delivering the day-to-day running of public services and municipalities of the people in Gaza.
		A transitional governance of technocratic, apolitical.
		How does that work?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		Also, they're getting people who do not have a strong association with Hamas or with any other political entity.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		But they're Palestinians nonetheless.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		They should be Palestinians, absolutely.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Living in Gaza.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		They might be living in Gaza.
		They may be coming in from the West Bank.
		But bottom line is it's about taking control over the administration of Gaza, making sure that food gets in.
		But these are important details.
		But the larger picture, frankly, is more important, which is that this has to become an end to this round of, or this specific element of the conflict.
		If it just ends up becoming a ceasefire, then it would be a tactical pause, meaning that you have a month, a couple of weeks of a ceasefire, and then the Israelis start the bombing again.
		If that is the case, and this whole thing breaks down.
		But even if we get to an end to this round of conflict, we still have to remember the current plan does not do anything to actually address the root causes of the broader conflict, which is the Israeli occupation.
		As long as that continues, unfortunately, the conflict will also continue.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's not until phase three.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		That is not until phase three.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		But in case two, Hamas has to lay down their weapons.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and we haven't seen...
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		How likely is that?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		I find it very unlikely that Hamas will lay down weapons unless you also have similar type of restrictions on the Israeli side that they cannot restart the fighting.
		I mean, you have to take a step back and recognize, yes, Hamas's attack on October 7th, of course, was a horrific, horrific attack.
		On the other hand, though, the Israelis since then have, according to the United Nations, according to a very large number of experts, according to the filing of the South Africans and many other countries at the ICJ, have been engaging in genocide.
		To not have any restrictions on what the Israelis can do will just continue this imbalance that has led to this conflict constantly flaring up.
		It's not just about the security of the Israelis.
		It has to also be about the security of the Palestinians.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		If you'd like to join our conversation with Trita Parsi about the Gaza ceasefire and the peace plan in the Middle East, you can start calling us now.
		The lines are bipartisan.
		So Republicans are on 202748-8001.
		Democrats 202-748-8000.
		And Independents 202748-8002.
		In an article that you wrote in Responsible Statecraft, you say that the plan will only work if President Trump keeps pressure on Israel.
		What does that pressure look like?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		Well, most likely that pressure behind the scene was to tell the Israelis that the United States will stop providing the weapons that the Israelis are using, stop providing the bombs, and stop providing the political and diplomatic cover to the Israelis at the UN and other international organizations.
		It was probably done privately in the background in order to avoid the challenges that will bring about if you have an open conflict between the Israelis and the US.
		And at the end of the day, Trump wants them to get along with it.
		He's not looking to humiliate them at the end of the day.
		But it is that type of the pressure that is the only thing that could bring about an end to this conflict.
		That pressure was always possible to impose on the Israelis.
		Biden could have done this throughout the two years that he was overseeing this conflict.
		Trump could have done it earlier as well.
		In fact, if he had done it back in March, perhaps there would never have been a breach of the ceasefire.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What did you make of the airstrike, the Israeli airstrike on Qatar in Doha, that ultimately failed to kill the Hamas leaders who were negotiating there?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What did you make of that and how that might have spurred on this eventual ceasefire?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		I think the Israeli strike on Qatar, the failed attempt at killing the negotiators, is a critical reason as to why we are here today with Trump pushing for a plan to end the conflict.
		That was a major overreach by the Israelis.
		It infuriated the United States.
		We didn't see any clear cost imposed on the Israelis immediately, but it did unite much of the region to put pressure on Trump to say that this is unacceptable because essentially it meant that these countries that have been hosting U.S. bases have agreements with the United States as major non-NATO allies, were given an implicit security umbrella from the United States that apparently doesn't work if the Israelis decide to attack them.
		And this deeply, deeply embarrassed the United States and put on the question the credibility of American promises.
		And I think it shifted the balance within the White House, within the debate in the White House on how to approach this and prompted Trump to take the initiative to try to put an end to this.
		Now, whether that plan leaves much to be desired, if it has flaws, clearly none of these things are going to be perfect.
		But the reason why I think this came about, the trigger of it was that attack.
		What also had been happening beneath the surface, and this is less reported on, is that over the course of the last couple of months in particular, the standing and the numbers of Israel amongst the America first crowd, the core constituency of Trump, has just been tanking.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Why is that?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		For several different reasons.
		The war that Israel launched against Iran, the feeling that the Israelis are pulling the U.S. into more and more wars, that Israel is asking for everything and as a result is limiting Trump to be able to pursue the domestic agenda that these people elected Trump to pursue, and the fact that at the end of the day, the U.S. is a superpower and should not be essentially taken advantage of in the way that they're perceiving Israel's conduct right now.
		All of these things, combined, of course, with the horrific images coming out of Gaza, I mean, this is a situation in which the Israeli soldiers are essentially live streaming their own war crimes and happily doing so.
		And this is ultimately having a profound impact.
		That led to a situation in which Trump increasingly started to realize that Israel was being a political baggage for him, had a political cost for Israel to continue to do this, rely on the U.S. to provide the political and diplomatic support for it to do so, provide the weapons, provide the money.
		The United States, according to the Congressional Research Service, covered one-third of Israel's entire military budget into 2024.
		It is probably much higher in 2025 because of the immense cost of the 12-day war that Israel initiated against Iran.
		All of these things, over time, has created a situation in which the support for Israel is just plummeting.
		And this is becoming a problem for Trump himself.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's get to calls, and we'll start with Greg and Glenn Allen, Virginia, Independent Line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Greg.
unidentified		Yeah, good morning.
		So I had a question and a comment.
		So first, my question is, does the plan shut down Hamas completely and get him out of Gaza?
		I wasn't sure about that.
		And then if it doesn't, then it's not going to work.
		Because as long as Hamas is able to do anything, if they're able to fight back in any way, because they don't recognize the existence of Israel.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So what's the future of Hamas?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		Actually, Hamas has come to the position of recognizing Israel if Israel recognizes a Palestinian state.
		The desire not to see Hamas in existence, I think, is totally understandable.
		But Hamas or some variation of opposition and resistance to Israeli occupation will always exist as long as the occupation exists.
		Hamas did not exist.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Arms resistance, you mean?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		Even arms resistance.
		And Hamas did not exist before the Israelis occupied Palestine.
		In fact, the Israelis themselves were instrumental in creating Hamas.
		This was an effort that was done back in the 1980s by the Israelis in order to weaken what they at the time saw as a greater challenge, which was the PLO.
		So they helped create Hamas as a way of creating a differentiation and division within the Palestinian movement.
		But bottom line is, as much as it is absolutely correct to recognize that the Hamas has conducted numerous terrorist attacks against Israel, as long as the occupation continues to exist, there is going to be resistance, including armed resistance.
		And according to international law, armed resistance is permissible.
		Not terrorist attacks, not war crimes, but arms resistance is permissible if you are occupied.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Against civilians?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		No, no, that's also war crimes.
		You are not allowed to do attacks against civilians.
		So that's absolutely out of reach.
		It doesn't matter if there's occupation or not.
		And Hamas has conducted that.
		And as a result, it's understandable, of course, that there should be a solution in which Hamas doesn't exist.
		But it is a fantasy to believe that armed resistance is going to go away as long as the occupation does not go away.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here's Jerry Democrat Sewell, New Jersey.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Jerry.
unidentified		Yeah, I have a question for you, but I do have a comment also listening to you.
		One of the reasons, and I think you're forgetting the really important part here, is that the hostages are going to be coming home.
		And by the way, they're not all Israeli.
		They're American.
		They're other countries.
		And if it wasn't for Israel fighting to take Hamas on, we wouldn't be getting these hostages back.
		So my comment is to Mr. Parsi, I guess that's not even important to him.
		I don't hear C-SBAN or you, Mr. Parsi, mention the hostages.
		And that's kind of the most important thing.
		And the other comment, the question I have is, what is he expecting in Gaza?
		Like, what does he think the final thing is going to be?
		Rebuilding the homes.
		Who's doing that?
		Like, who's going to be rebuilding?
		What is he expecting?
		Okay.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's get the answer.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		Getting the hostages back, of course, is tremendously important.
		The caller is absolutely right about that.
		What I think perhaps is missing here, though, if you listen to the debate inside of Israel, the hostage families are tremendously angry at the Netanyahu government for having ignored the plight of the hostages.
		We have, I think, only about 20 or so hostages that are remaining there that are alive.
		Another 40 or so of the remains who have been killed as a result of the bombing that Israel itself has committed to a very large extent.
		So the demand to getting the hostages out is absolutely essential.
		And it's very interesting that Trump is emphasizing that almost more than the Israeli government is.
		The Israeli government has had numerous opportunities to get the hostages out and has instead chosen to continue the fighting, which is part of the reason why there is so much anger in Israeli society against the Netanyahu Ben-Gavir government, because they accuse them of being more interested in reoccupying Gaza, occupying the West Bank, rather than actually getting the hostages.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And the hostages have to be released before the Israelis will release the Palestinian prisoners and detainees.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		And many of them are hostages as well.
		We're talking about people who have not been processed in any way, shape, or form.
		They have not been accused of anything.
		And many, many of them are women and children.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		She also asked about rebuilding Gaza.
		So let me show you what the White House said about the economic plan for Gaza.
		I'll put that on the screen.
		It says a Trump economic development plan to rebuild and energize Gaza will be created by convening a panel of experts who have helped birth some of the thriving modern miracle cities in the Middle East.
		What's your take on that?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		I remain quite skeptical.
		At the end of the day, the damage that has been done in Gaza is just astronomical in terms of the amount of the cost of it and the cost of rebuilding it.
		We're talking about more than 50 to 60 billion dollars that need to be poured in.
		The international community is obviously going to have to be an essential part of this.
		Many of the states in the GCC have financial means to be able to be helping.
		But for instance, Qatari's already spent more than $4 billion rebuilding Gaza in the past.
		What's the point of doing that if there isn't a long-term political solution that ensures that that rebuilding actually stands, that you don't have to go and pour more money into Gaza over and over again because the fighting resumes?
		So to be able to get the commitment, the financial commitment of that scale, there absolutely needs to be a political solution.
		That means that this cannot just be a ceasefire.
		It cannot just be an end to the fighting.
		It has to be a larger political solution.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Carol, Independent Elgin, Texas, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Mimi, and good morning, Mr. Parsi.
		And thank you all for taking my call.
		And thank you so very much for C-SPAN and letting people speak freely.
		I wanted to get Mr. Parsi's comments on a couple of things.
		One is this history between Trump and Netanyahu goes back to Trump's first term.
		And the only way I can describe it is for Benjamin Netanyahu in Trump's first term, every day was Christmas.
		If he wanted something, Trump gave it to him all the way through the first term.
		And now I think Trump has to cover for Netanyahu because you'll notice this plan is not called an Israeli peace plan or a Palestinian peace plan.
		It's called a Trump peace plan because that's the only way for after so many years of supporting Netanyahu and the hardliners in Israel, after so many years of doing that, the only way that they can introduce peace is Netanyahu has to go to his hardline people and say, now Trump is forcing me to do this.
		And so I think we're all being kind of played for saps when we sit there and say, no, this is a Trump peace plan.
		This plan that they're coming up with, and you especially saw it when you put the paragraph up about who's going to fund it, what they mean is they're going to use Arab money, okay?
		They're going to use money out of Saudi.
		They're going to use money out of the Gulf State partners.
		They're going to use that money from outside sources to come in and try and do something with Gaza.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's get a response, Carol.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		I think the caller is quite right about what happened during the first term.
		And this is also part of the reason why Israel's standing within the America First constituency is plummeting, because Trump gave Netanyahu almost everything he wanted, moved the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem,
		accepted and recognized the occupation of the Golan, pushed all of these different countries to give concessions to Israel and also by normalizing, but also then gave those countries concessions, took Sudan off the terrorist list, sold F-35s to the Emiratis, accepted Morocco's control over West Sahara, all in order to get them to normalize relations with Israel.
		And the question has been: what has been the return for the United States or for Trump himself?
		And now then you have in the second term all of these demands for more weapons costing the American taxpayers more than 20 to 30 billion dollars to fund this war that makes no strategic sense for the United States.
		In fact, it's destabilizing the region as a whole and risks bringing the U.S. into war, particularly if, as we saw this past summer with the war that the Israelis initiated against Iran.
		So there's an uneven balance sheet here in terms of what Trump has been given Netanyahu and what Trump and the United States have been given in return.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that the wealthy Arab states would be willing to rebuild Gaza?
		I mean, they may not get anything in return.
		I mean, this could be just aid.
		What do you think of that?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		Again, going back to what I said earlier on, these are astronomical numbers.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		These are much, much more.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		They don't think they can afford it?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		They can afford it, but it is.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		They just don't want to do it.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		They won't want to do it.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		Why would you want to do it if Israel is going to blow it up in three months again?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		So again, if you're going to do it, you're going to do it because you have some sort of a guarantee that this peace is going to last, some sort of a guarantee that the United States is going to put constraints on Israel.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What kind of constraints, besides strong words?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		Well, constraints such as making sure that there is no more sales of weapons, that there are political and diplomatic costs if the Israelis attack other Arab states.
		I mean, again, Qatar is a major U.S. ally, and it was attacked by Israel.
		And there's been no clear signs of any major cost imposed on Israel, except for the fact that Trump is pushing for this plan that the Netanyahu government is reluctantly agreeing to.
		So if you're going to put all of this money in there, you want to have a stable situation.
		You want to make sure that it stands for long term.
		And you want to make sure that one thing that the Qataris and many of the GCC states have now said does not materialize.
		They do not want to live under Israeli hegemony.
		This is a term that they now, for the first time, are starting to use.
		And I think all of that is going to have to be part of the package in order for this to work in the long run.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk to Paul, Idaho Republican line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Paul.
unidentified		Yes, my question for the gentleman is: what is his definition of genocide?
		And the second part to that is humanitarian aid was coming up missing.
		And the only people involved in that were Hamas.
		And so he was starving out the Palestinians.
		That's both my questions.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Paul.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		So there is no evidence at all.
		In fact, it's been profoundly refuted that the reason why aid has not come in is because of Hamas.
		In fact, the fact that aid is now coming in is because the Israelis are lifting the siege and the blocks that they have put forward.
		I mean, we have images of Israeli settlers going in destroying the AIDS.
		So to blame this on Hamas is one of these talk points that has been thrown out by the Israeli government that is really confusing the debate.
		In regards to genocide, we have now a situation in which a majority of experts on genocide have concluded that this is a genocide taking place.
		You just had last month the UN Commission coming out with the same conclusion.
		The ICJ, the International Court of Justice, is now reviewing the matter.
		One of the most difficult things to prove in the genocide case is intent that this is not just something that is happening accidentally, but this is something that is happening by design, that there is.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What do you think, Trita?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Do you think it was intentional by the Israelis?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		The Israelis have said that it is intentional.
		I mean, the case when it comes to the genocide, in my view, is actually the strongest when it comes to the expression of intent that took place immediately after October 7th, in which they're saying they're going to kill everything there.
		It's not going to be anything left, referring to the Palestinians as animals.
		All of these different things are in the court case.
		There's 22 pages in the South African claim that is just designated to list the examples of intent expressed by the Israeli government officials themselves.
		Now, whether it ultimately comes to a conclusion by the ICJ that it is or it isn't, we will probably have to wait another year or so before we see that.
		But I think we are now in a situation in which a majority of Americans, a majority of most populations in the world, including in Europe, have concluded that this is a genocide.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk to, is it St. Cofa in Marietta, Georgia, Independent?
unidentified		Yes.
		Hi, Mr. Parsi.
		It's so nice to have you on because so many times we only get to hear people that are Zionist sympathizers.
		You never hear anything really concrete on the other side.
		But what I was calling about is that I'm very skeptical of this so-called ceasefire.
		I don't believe that it's going to hold.
		And the reason that I don't believe it, I think what they're doing right now is the most important thing is that they want to get the hostages back.
		And I truly believe that once the hostages and their remains are back, that Netanyahu is going to start this war all over because Netanyahu was getting so much pushback in Israel because of the hostage.
		Could you also speak to the Hannibal directive and the economy that was going on in Israel itself?
		How is this economy doing?
		Thank you.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much.
		There is, without a doubt, a significant risk that once the hostages are out, that we will see the same pattern that we've seen before.
		That after a while, Trump's attention shifts elsewhere.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Do you think the Israeli population would take that, though?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		The Israeli population.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Once the hostages are back, do you think that they would allow Netanyahu to go back in and start bombing Gaza again?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		The Israeli public is split on this.
		There's a very strong support for the war.
		At the same time, there's a very, very strong support for releasing, for getting the hostages back.
		Once all of the hostages are out, I think the question is, of course, going to be the issue of Hamas and whether it is disarmed or not.
		And that is going to be a continuing thing that is going to be used, but you have to also be very clear that from the standpoint of some of the people that are in the Israeli government, the plan for a greater Israel, an reoccupation of or complete control of Gaza, the creeping annexation of the West Bank that is taking place right now is a primary objective.
		And these are elements that have been pushing to be able to get to this situation in the past, even when there were no hostages of this kind.
		So I think that this skepticism is warranted and it all depends to a very large extent whether Trump sustains the pressure to make sure that this deal lasts.
		And this is again part of the reason why you're seeing so many of the Arab states, including Hamas, emphasizing that Trump has to be personally involved.
		It is the only guarantee that they can come up with.
		And it's not a strong guarantee in any sense of the word, but it's the only guarantee that they can point to that would actually help ensure that this deal is sustained.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And they want President Trump personally involved because they can see that he's the only one that has had any effect on.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if you compare this to the Biden years, Biden never put this type of a pressure on Israel.
		Trump is a different type of a president.
		He is willing to give the Israelis way more support than Biden was, for instance.
		He agreed to bomb Iran, something that Biden had rejected, something that Trump himself had rejected in his first term, Obama had rejected, and Bush had rejected.
		So he's willing to go further than any other president in supporting Israel.
		Again, he's the one who moved the embassy, recognized Golan, etc.
		But he also has the capacity of pressuring Israel in a way that Biden at least did not exhibit in the two years that he could have done this.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		The caller mentioned the Hannibal Directive.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Explain what that is and if that has actually been confirmed.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		It has been confirmed that the Israelis issued the Hannibal Directive on October 7th, which was in order to prevent hostages from taking, it is permissible to kill, for the Israelis to kill their own people.
		This has been reported in the Israeli press.
		It was issued earlier on.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Who issued that directive?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		It comes from the Israeli government itself, of course.
		The fact that that Hannibal Directive exists in and of itself tells you something.
		And this is a very, very significant shift.
		We're seeing Israel going through many, many shifts.
		In the past, the Israelis would have done everything to get their hostages out.
		And, you know, there's the one case of one of their hostages that was exchanged for about a thousand or so Palestinian prisoners.
		And this was a very core issue in Israeli society that every hostage had to be taken.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		This is Gilad Shalita.
unidentified		Exactly.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		The soldier.
		Exactly.
		After October 7th, we've seen a remarkable shift.
		On the one hand, of course, there's a strong desire to get the hostages out, but it's not been the guiding star in any way, shape, or form.
		And we've seen, again, the issuance of the Hannibal Directive.
		But there's also another thing that has happened that I think also is something that worried Trump.
		Not because of any particular sympathy for either side, but because of the cost this would have on the U.S. For years, the Israelis have pointed to their diplomatic and political acceptance in the international community as a sign of their success, as a sign of their acceptance.
		This is all starting after the Oslo Agreement, in which a large number of countries, particularly in the global south, normalize relations with Israel.
		Now you've seen the Israelis at a tremendous point of isolation.
		They're on the path towards permanent pariah unless they change course.
		And that pariah would have a tremendous cost on the United States because it's the U.S. that is expected to defend Israel politically and diplomatically, to expend political capital, diplomatic capital, constantly for the defense of Israel.
		And seeing them going in this direction and then having the Israeli prime minister actually embrace that isolation, saying that Israel now be the little Sparta or super Sparta, is a remarkable shift because in the past it was pointing to its international integration as a point of success and now is actually embracing and celebrating isolation.
		And the bill for that ends up at the feet of the United States and American taxpayers.
		And I think this is another reason why Trump went in this direction.
		In fact, he told Sean Hannity on his show that he had told that Trump had told Netanyahu that you can't continue just fighting the entire world.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here's Mark in California, line for Republicans.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		And to Mr. Parsi, I want to first know if he's a combat veteran and if he's ever been in combat in the Middle East, because it seems a lot of his speaking, talking points are anti-Israel.
		They've been defending themselves for decades with not a lot of help from anybody but us.
		So I don't have a lot of faith in what he says, especially here with academics saying they're a doctor.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Mark, you're saying that if he has not had combat experience, he wouldn't understand Israel's situation?
unidentified		Or what are you saying exactly about that?
		I don't have a lot of faith in these people that are academics that have never been there, done that, seen it.
		You know what I mean?
		So for somebody to spew what I think he's saying that only Israel's doing genocide, if October 7th happened, the first thing Joe Biden should have done on October 8th was demand our hostages come home.
		And he was weak and he didn't do it.
		I carte blanche, I love Bibi Netanyahu.
		I'm a Christian.
		I'm not even Hebrew.
		But I will go to war with the Jews and Israel to defend themselves because look at the anti-Semitism here in America in our college campuses.
		Is that okay?
		Does Mr. Parsi defend that?
		Is America committing genocide and that makes it okay for those people to do the genocide flags here?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Trina.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		I'm not a combat veteran, so I don't have any experience fighting war in the Middle East or anywhere else in the world.
		I do have experience in trying to solve conflicts, however.
		I think the sentiment the caller was expressed to is not an uncommon one in the sense that there is a loss of faith in the American public for much of the foreign policy elites of the United States and what has been happening there.
		So I understand that part of it.
		The view he expresses, however, of a desire for the United States to fight with Israel, for instance, is a view that was strongly held in many quarters in many different constituencies in the United States.
		But it is a view that is becoming increasingly small and a minority view, even amongst Christian evangelicals, particularly amongst young Christian evangelicals.
		It's actually very fascinating to see the huge gap between where older Christian evangelicals are on their view of Israel and Palestine and what's happening right now and the younger Christian evangelicals.
		They still tend to favor Israel, but the gap is roughly 40%, 41%, where older Christian evangelicals are and where younger are.
		And then when you take a look at it on the Democratic side, it's even much, much sharper than that.
		But then you have less of a gap between the demographics in the sense of the age difference, but a massive shift away from the position of thinking that Israel is just defending itself, for instance.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk to Crystal in West Palm Beach, Florida, Democrat.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Crystal.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
		I would just like to say that the young man that just got off the phone saying that he would have a difficult time relating to Mr. Parsi because he didn't fight in the military.
		Similarly, it would be difficult for a people that have never been oppressed or occupied or living in apartheid conditions to understand what the Palestinians have been going through.
		I just want to say that I personally viewed Hamas as a militant group that was opposing occupation from the time of the event, and they have been called barbarians consistently in Israel and in the media in the United States.
		So if Hamas killed 1,100 people on October 3rd, 7th, 2023, and Netanyahu has since killed 70,000 people, 83% civilians, what does that make him?
		Who is the barbarian?
		Who is wanted for war crimes?
		And who has been accused of genocide by the legitimate international criminal court and international court of justice?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Crystal.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		I think the view expressed by the caller here is actually reflective of how the debate on Israel and Palestine has just shifted dramatically over the last two years.
		Questions that are now being asked by the American public about this conflict, about Israel's conduct, about what the Palestinians have endured, what the Palestinians have done and not done.
		I've been teaching the geopolitics of the Middle East for more than 15 years at U.S. universities, and it is just a remarkable shift how things have changed.
		And it's changed to the disadvantage of Israel as well, of course.
		But it is to a very large extent, if not almost exclusively, because of the manner in which Israel has conducted all of this.
		As the caller pointed out, Benjamin Netanyahu and the former defense minister of Israel, Galant, are wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes, as are the leaders of Hamas that now have been killed.
		But this is a very crucial detail that is very rarely mentioned in U.S. media, in U.S. mainstream media, that when his name is being mentioned, that it is not also added to that that this is a very crucial detail about his conduct, that he has actually landed himself in the International Criminal Court.
		It takes quite a lot for a leader of a country, particularly a leader of a Western country, to be accused of that by the International Criminal Court.
		And so that is a detail that, again, has helped change the perceptions of the American public about this conflict.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		The president says he is going to be visiting Israel and Egypt on Monday.
		He'll be speaking in front of the Knesset.
		That's the schedule in any case.
		Do you think that that's a good plan?
		Do you think that that's a wise move by President Trump?
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		I think it's the type of a move that the White House, as well as many of those who negotiated this deal, find to be essential in order to make sure that there is as clear of a deterrence against any party, but particularly the Israeli side, the Israeli government, to violate this deal.
		Because what they will be doing in that case is that they will essentially be undermining and sabotaging something that Trump has gone beyond anything else he's done so far to put his signature on.
		And this is a key guarantee that is being demanded.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Joanna in Germantown, Maryland, Democrat, you're on the air.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Good morning.
		One of the things I never hear addressed is before October 7th, the unemployment rate in Gaza was extremely high, extremely high.
		And especially among young men.
		So you had a lot of older teenage boys and young, 20-something young men that had nothing to do but get into mischief.
		roaming around the Gaza and Hamas became attractive to them.
		It gave them something to belong to, something to do.
		And Hamas, as long as it's been in power, did nothing to create jobs, to upgrade the standard of living of the Palestinians.
		And when you look at Israel and you see the difference in the standard of living.
		So I think this is one of the root causes, to tell you the truth.
		I'm not talking about going to answer.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's get an answer, Joanna.
unidentified		Go ahead.
unidentified		Go ahead.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		I think there's been a tremendous amount of criticism that can be put forward legitimately against Hamas and how they have been running Gaza.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		I mean, one of the critical things, of course, is that they won the elections in Gaza, but then they made sure that there are no more elections.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		That was 2006.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		So there's a tremendous amount of valid criticisms that can be put forward.
		However, the caller is making a mistake, I think, in not recognizing that throughout this entire period, Gaza has remained occupied by Israel.
		Because by the international law definition of it, since Israel has continued to control the airspace, the borders, the maritime borders of Gaza, that means that the territory is still occupied by Israel.
		And the Israelis have made it very clear what they're allowing in and what they're not allowing in.
		They're being complete control of it.
		So there's a significant limitation to what any government in Gaza could have done in order to be able to get the living standards up.
		But I think we also have to recognize that if you're under occupation, whether jobs exist or not, historically we have seen that populations resist.
		No country is, no population accepts being under occupation.
		And as a result, even if the living standards were of better, it would have been very unlikely to expect that the population would have accepted that their political faith is in the hands of some other state, of some other people.
		And so this conflict would have endured even in those situations.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Trida Parsi, Executive Vice President at the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Thanks so much for joining us.
trita parsi ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much for having me.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Coming up next, we'll be joined by Sarah Homan from the National Association of Rural Health Clinics.
		She'll talk about the government shutdown and the One Big Beautiful bill and how they are impacting rural health care.
		We'll be right back.
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mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back to Washington Journal.
		Joining us to talk about the government shutdown impact on rural health clinics is Sarah Holman.
		She is the government affairs director for the National Association of Rural Health Clinics.
		Sarah, welcome to the program.
unidentified		Thank you so much for having me.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Tell us about your organization, your mission, and who you work with.
unidentified		Sure.
		So the National Association of Rural Health Clinics was created to support the nation's 5,700 rural health clinics across the country.
		So RHCs provide care to over 39 million Americans in rural medically underserved parts of the country.
		So we both advocate for the program and all of those clinics and then provide education to those clinic managers and directors in the work that they do.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And you're funded by fees paid by those health clinics?
unidentified		Yes, we're a membership organization.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So explain their role, these health clinics, especially the rural ones, their role in health care in those areas that they serve.
unidentified		Yes, absolutely.
		So the program was created back in the 70s in 1977 to help bring access to health care, access to outpatient health care services to rural medically underserved parts of the country.
		So to be eligible for the RHC program, they have to be in both a health professional shortage area and an area of less than 50,000.
		So that's how their rural is defined.
		And in a lot of those communities, they are the sole access point to outpatient services.
		Sometimes there may be a hospital in the area.
		Oftentimes there is not too.
		Our clinics really span the gamut.
		Some are in frontier areas, some are in slightly more closer to suburban areas.
		And again, truly, they provide a range of outpatient services from primary care access to behavioral health services and then integrate specialty care as they can.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		But not emergency care.
unidentified		Correct, correct.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So when you say, okay, I get the 50,000 or less, but the health professional desert, I guess it would be called, how do you define that?
unidentified		Yeah, so those are defined by HRSA.
		HRSA manages those systems and health professional shortage areas are a ratio of providers to the individuals that live in those communities.
		So there's all different types of, we call them HIPSAs, health professional shortage areas, dental, primary care, mental health HIPSAs.
		They're exploring more of maternal health, health professional shortage areas as well.
		But we focus on the primary care side of things.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And if you would like to join our conversation, you can go ahead and start calling in now.
		So our lines are going to be a little bit different this time.
		They are: if you live in a rural area, you can call us on 202-748-8000.
		If you're a rural health care provider, call us on 202-748-8001.
		And all others can call us on 202-748-8002.
		You can also use our line for texting.
		That's 202-748-8003.
		So we're in day 11 of the government shutdown.
		Has there been an impact to rural health clinics and rural health care in general during this shutdown?
unidentified		Yes, absolutely.
		So I'll start by saying that rural health clinics are not grant-funded.
		So we don't have grants necessarily held up in the appropriations fight right now.
		But we are predominantly Medicare and Medicaid heavy or reliant.
		And so while those payments themselves are not held up as part of the shutdown right now, a lot of just the day-to-day operations of CMS and other agencies are.
		And so for rural health clinics, because they're a CMS program, a CMS designation, when they come into the program, they have a pretty lengthy survey and certification process.
		Right now, because CMS regional offices are closed as part of this shutdown, all new rural health clinic surveys and certification processes are completely held up in the process.
		And so these are potentially new access points in rural communities to provide care that are held up right now as part of this.
		Telehealth would be another one that is impacted right now by the shutdown.
		So again, not appropriations entirely, but the telehealth cliff for Medicare telehealth flexibilities was September 30th.
		And since Congress did not pass a telehealth package, either as part of appropriations or separate, there's been a lapse in those flexibilities for seniors.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, let's talk about that a little bit more.
		Because I actually got a call earlier this week from a woman who said that she's no longer able to use telehealth to access her doctor.
		And I tried looking it up and then the website, the CMS website says, sorry, we're not updating the website anymore because of the government shutdown.
		So explain why that specifically is no longer available to Medicare recipients.
unidentified		Yes, so Medicare medical telehealth flexibilities were first put in place, really expanded in March of 2020.
		So during the COVID-19 pandemic, they were then extended in various iterations over the last five plus years.
		We had a series of extensions.
		This latest extension of those flexibilities lasted us through September 30th.
		And since there was not an extension, basically what that means is we revert to pre-pandemic flexibilities, which are really not very flexible at all, pretty limited in the scope of what they allow.
		This means that seniors can no longer receive telehealth services from their home in the vast majority of cases.
		And that's where the majority of individuals that got used to these telehealth benefits were receiving them from.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So when the government does reopen, do those come back automatically or there's going to be have to be a separate legislation to bring those back?
unidentified		Yeah, it could go either way.
		So there was just a straight extension of current flexibilities in the House passed CR.
		So that through November 21st, obviously that's not a date too far from now and doesn't necessarily give providers and patients that use these services a ton of confidence in the continuation of them.
		So they could either do it as part of the package or a separate piece of legislation, which there are a lot of efforts on the Hill right now to get.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, let's take a call.
		We've got Tina actually calling from a rural area in North Carolina.
		Tina, good morning.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I was just coming up with a solution because I know what we're going through now is terrible.
		And it's all because Trump hates President O'Biden so much.
		I mean, President Obama so much.
		And that's terrible.
		But if you're in a rural area and when they supposed to shut down the rural area hospital, you can always go to an urgent care.
		If, you know, an urgent care would get you an ambulance from there.
		And they got urgent care is just about everywhere.
		Kernersville, that's one of the places.
		Matter of fact, that hospital just got built.
		I say it's been there maybe two years.
		We shouldn't have to go through this.
		It doesn't make a bit of sense that the American people is going through this because he hates Obama so bad.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So Tina, tell us about your health care.
		How are you doing?
		Have you needed to access health care in your rural area?
unidentified		Anyway.
		I go to urgent care anyhow because I don't go to the hospital first because when you go to the hospital first, you better be in an ambulance before you can go back because it takes so long to go back to the back.
		So you need to go in an ambulance.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		How far do you need to drive to get to a hospital, Tina?
unidentified		Maybe about maybe.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So if you actually had an emergency where you needed an ambulance, let's say, it would take you an hour to get to the first hospital?
unidentified		Yes, that's where I would go through urgent care first.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Sarah.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Unfortunately, those travel times to hospitals and to emergency services are far too common in a lot of rural communities.
		I will say a lot of those urgent care facilities may be rural health clinics, so maybe part of this program.
		And that's why it's so critically important that we have access to a broad range of services, right?
		Those outpatient services and those emergency services, because oftentimes, not all the time, but oftentimes we can prevent those emergency services and the need for those escalating services when we have access to primary care and outpatient.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here's Jane in Augusta, Maine.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jane.
unidentified		Hi, this is Jane.
		I'm a registered dietitian.
		I usually call every 30 days.
		And my emphasis, I have worked in rural areas, but my main emphasis today is to talk a little bit about food safety and sanitation.
		I know that's sometimes a concern in rural areas.
		In a state of Maine, in a metro area in Stockholm, Maine, per ProPublica, there was recently a level K deficiency jeopardy.
		It involved norovirus, which is an infection control problem.
		And this can happen to individuals in rural communities, out in households, etc.
		Norovirus has a high medical expense as well as decreasing productivity when we have major outbreaks.
		And last year they had NeuroStat, which had a higher level, Norvostat, which is statistics.
		So in rural areas, my question is, in rural areas, what kind of information do you provide rural food safety and sanitation education regarding norovirus transmission?
		This is in light of the fact that recently we had a presentation by Jodi Ernst on costume mascots, thermy and back, which were essential.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, let's get a response.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		It's kind of a specific question.
unidentified		Yeah, sure.
		So I will say that, you know, while I'm not an expert on the topic, I know that a lot of our rural health clinics have really close relationships with their local public health departments and get a lot of the information through them and are a trusted messenger within their communities, ultimately.
		You know, oftentimes our clinics are treating the patients in rural areas from their birth for their entire lives.
		And so they do become those really trusted messengers.
		So I think those are great places to get out a lot of that important information.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Healthcare is at the core of this government shutdown.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What happens to rural health, rural health care in general if the enhanced ACA subsidies are allowed to expire?
unidentified		Yeah, absolutely.
		So similarly to the rest of the country, but felt more acutely in rural is oftentimes the case when we have major changes in health care policy.
		And the expiration of ACA subsidies would be no different.
		This is how we have a low in comparison to previous times uninsured rate.
		Ultimately, these patients are still going to receive care from our facilities, right?
		They're still going to get sick.
		They're still going to show up to the providers that they've always seen.
		But if they elect to forego their insurance coverage because it's become unaffordable to them, that means that these facilities are treating these patients entirely uncompensated.
		And ultimately, our facilities, again, are not grant funded, do not receive any funding to sort of fill in those gaps when they see patients that don't have insurance coverage.
		And so ultimately, that becomes some really tough decisions about we want to continue seeing these patients and providing care to them, but how much longer can we do this before we're forced to close our doors to the entire community?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So they would still get coverage.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		This is non-emergency care, though.
unidentified		Sure.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So if somebody just shows up and says, look, I've got a sore throat and I don't have insurance, is the clinic going to eat that cost?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Or they're still going to get billed.
unidentified		Yeah.
		So they may, you know, still bill the patient.
		Ultimately, it's the clinic's decision, right?
		They are not required necessarily in the Rural Health Clinics program to see all patients regardless of ability to pay.
		But I think a misconception would be that they don't, right?
		When they're the only provider in a community, they are still opening their doors to these patients.
		They may try to collect some of that from patients ultimately, but it's not going to be the same as if they had insurance coverage.
		And that just continues to increase the uncompensated care these clinics are providing.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's go to Long Island, New York.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Margarita, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, yes.
		This is Margarita from Brentwood, New York.
		I'm just calling.
		I'm very, very upset with this government shutdown, with the medical clinics.
		You know, I'm a senior.
		You know, we have to look behind our back to make sure that if we get sick, I mean, even though we have insurance, but we still have the co-pays that we have to pay.
		And I just think that the Republicans and Democrats should really get their act together.
		And it's not only about the health, it's about everything else.
		It's so unfair.
		The community I live in is basically, you know, a lot of seniors here, and we don't know from today tomorrow.
		And I think that they should put their sides, especially New York and the New York Congresspeople.
		Just get with the program.
		This is ridiculous.
		You know, everybody's suffering for this, whether you're sick.
		I have people who are on dialysis and they're just wondering what the bill is going to come in the mail.
		So I just hope that the government shut down will just stop, get them both together, Democrats, Republicans, whatever, and just get this shut down taken care of.
		It's very sad that we live in a world I've been here for many years and to see this, it's incredible.
		It really is incredible.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Margarita.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Sarah Homan.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Well, thank you for your call and for your advocacy by participating in this.
		I will say that all of your members of Congress, all members of Congress need to hear those examples and what ultimately this is meaning for you.
		It's really important.
		Big part of my job and the work of our association is connecting clinics to their members of Congress, ensuring that they feel these real world impacts as they're playing out.
		So definitely encourage you to share those messages with your members as well.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Tony, you're in Connecticut.
		You're on with Sarah Homan.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		What a topic this morning, huh?
		I just have two comments, questions.
		I watched Speaker Johnson the other day on the show, C-SPAN, and he referenced a website, I think it's speaker.gov, where he has that page from the Democratics counterproposal that's been put up for vote in the Senate.
		In there, he states that the Democrats want to get rid of the subsidy, the $60 billion subsidy that will support the rural hospitals.
		I have not yet seen C-SPAN or anybody at least show that page from whitehouse.gov.
		That's kind of crazy to me.
		My second quick point is if this is all about the health care, which isn't going to happen for another month or so, whatever the time is, and the Democrats' reason is that they don't trust the Republicans to negotiate in good faith, why don't we just have it on TV?
		Why don't you just have them say yes?
		Speaker Johnson says yes, and we will meet on this day and start doing it and open the government up.
		Open the government up.
		This is a Schumer shutdown.
		Thank you.
		Thank you for your call.
		I'll start by saying I believe what Speaker Johnson was referencing, and I need to go back and look at this as well, but I believe what he was referencing in that counterproposal by Senate Democrats is basically they want to repeal all of the Medicaid reforms that went into effect through HR1, the reconciliation package passed in July.
		Part of that package is that $50 billion rural health transformation fund.
		Also part of that package, though, is Medicaid proposals that are expected to result in an increase in the uninsured population by approximately 10 million Americans between Medicaid and ACA changes by 2034.
		So the Rural Health Transformation Fund, I'm glad that you brought that up.
		It's an important opportunity.
		It's an important investment in rural.
		A lot of the data is suggesting, however, that the other proposals from that legislation will drastically reduce the amount of federal health care spending in rural areas by about three times what that rural health transformation fund investment is, right?
		And so there's some concern about that not being enough to make up the difference, right?
		And so that Democratic proposal, yes, repeals the transformation fund because it is all of those provisions from HR1, to my understanding.
		So that Rural Health Transformation Fund, an important investment, but concern that it's really not enough.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And that website is speaker.gov.
		So you can go to that.
		That is Speaker Johnson's website, speaker.gov.
		He does on his homepage talk about the Democrats' counterproposal.
		He talks about costs of repealing ending Medicaid funding for most non-citizens, ending Medicare funding for most non-citizens, all those things.
		And you should be aware that he does say non-citizens, not necessarily those in the country illegally.
		So non-citizens would include people in the country illegally with residency, with green cards, or with legal stays in the country.
		Sarah, let's talk a little bit more about the One Big Beautiful bill and what the provisions are to protect rural health care for people that are living in those areas that you mentioned.
unidentified		Yeah, so the Rural Health Transformation Program or the Fund is a $50 billion fund over the next five years intended to help transform rural health care.
		There's a lot of great opportunity in this.
		I will say this is the type of investment that myself and other rural health advocates have been supporting for quite some time.
		Right now, we just got a notice of funding opportunity.
		This is going to be an opportunity for states to apply for this funding about how they want to use it in their states.
		So it's not necessarily a provider relief fund in these funds going directly to support rural health clinics, rural hospitals, et cetera.
		But states can apply for a variety of different buckets of how they want to use this for a more overall transformation of what rural health care looks in their state.
		So every state's handling that very differently.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So we've been hearing about the one big beautiful bill, which was signed in early July, will cause a lot of rural hospitals to shut down.
		And we are hearing reports of facilities starting to shut down because of that bill.
		Is that what you've been seeing?
		Is that what's actually been happening?
unidentified		Yeah.
		So I think it's a bit early to fully know whether the impacts are going to be as they're estimated, right?
		The majority of these provisions don't start kicking in until 2027, 2028, and beyond in terms of the work or community engagement requirements, changes to the provider taxes, how states finance their Medicaid programs, all of those pieces.
		So a lot is to come, but I will say facilities are beginning to make difficult decisions about their continued ability to stay open and stay financially viable in this new environment, particularly as states make difficult decisions about how they're going to finance their Medicaid programs moving forward without this extra layer of government support.
		So the biggest concern that we have in rural facilities is an increase in the uninsured population, like we were talking about earlier.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Rush in Pennsylvania, you're next.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Go right ahead.
unidentified		Good morning, Mimi.
		You again.
		But hey, I've called in the past to you, but hey, I'm 74, retired from U.S. Steel.
		When you're on Medicare in southwestern Pennsylvania, where I am, that would cover rural areas also.
		Plus, there's parts of Ohio that border PA, which would be the southwestern part of Ohio, the north or southeastern part of Ohio, northwestern part of West Virginia.
		We have two big things here: UPMC and HighMark.
		Now, you don't need any other thing.
		And my girlfriend told me about this years ago.
		I said, that's impossible.
		Everything's free.
		There's no, you know, you don't get a geez, the thing, you don't pay anything per month.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		The premium.
unidentified		No, zero premium, plus, when you go see your primary care physician, that's free.
		Any specialist is 20 bucks.
		Now, I've had two hips replaced three, four years ago.
		When I showed up at the hospital, I had to write it, give them $245, but that was it.
		That covered everything.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And that's Medicare, right, Rush?
unidentified		Be on Medicare to get it.
		And I have what's called HighMark Blue.
		Now, I just went to High Mark Community Blue.
		You can get different ones in the HighMark plan.
		Now, I went to get glasses here just yesterday.
		Naturally, you could get transition, you can get tinted lenses and stuff.
		I just get the basic bifocal.
		That's covered.
		Once a year, frames, I got up to $155 for frames.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying you have a really good insurance program there?
unidentified		Very good.
		And anybody around here, I try to tell people, but we're all set in our ways here.
		I said, oh, God.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So, HighMark, is that Medicare Advantage?
unidentified		That would be a Medicare Advantage plan.
		Yes, yes.
		And I'm thrilled that you're having a good experience with your Medicare Advantage program and plan.
		Ultimately, seniors when they turn 65 have the choice between traditional or red, white, and blue Medicare, as it's called, or a Medicare Advantage plan.
		And there are a variety of plans available depending on where you live.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's go to Princeton, West Virginia.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Steve, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		You know, one thing I watch a lot of news since I'm a disabled vet.
		And since I am a vet, I do have access to free health care.
		And I have a little clinic here in town.
james in texas [2] ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, I watch everything on the news.
unidentified		And I just want to ask people, how much is everybody else responsible for your irresponsible actions and decisions?
		Now, health care has to be a priority in your life.
		You have to have access to it.
		So how much is the rest of the country supposed to, you know, how much are they supposed to contribute to your decisions?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What kind of decisions are you talking about, Steve?
unidentified		Well, where you live, your access to employment.
		You know, does your employment there have health benefits?
		You know, but then everybody wants to sit around and say, oh, boo-hoo, look at me.
		You know, I don't have this and I don't have that.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So, Steve, when you say where you live, in other words, for this conversation, if you're living in a very rural area that doesn't have access to health care providers or facilities, you're just saying that that's your own fault.
unidentified		It is.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I mean, let's take that up.
		And also, he mentioned he was a vet and the idea of where the veterans get their health care, their access to healthcare if they're living in a rural area.
unidentified		Sure, yes.
		So I'll talk on the first point to begin with.
		You know, I think as a country, whether we live in rural communities or urban communities, we all are very reliant, perhaps more reliant than we know, on rural communities, right?
		From an agriculture production standpoint, from just having enough space in this country for all of the people that live here, I think we're very reliant on our rural communities.
		I think in order to have healthy, thriving rural communities, that means that it's important to have health care access there as well.
		And so the Rural Health Clinics Program is a way that the federal government has recognized that they believe it's important to have access to health care in rural communities as well.
		And so they created this program in order to support that opportunity.
		They also support a variety of loan repayment programs to get providers into these communities and all of those pieces.
		So I would say we, regardless of where we live, are reliant on rural communities.
		And that's why it benefits us all to have healthy, thriving populations in those communities.
		Secondly, on access to veterans health care, thank you for your service.
		A lot of times in rural communities when there is not a VA clinic or a VA hospital located in that area or within reasonable driving distance for those individuals, rural health clinics can provide some of that care through an agreement with the VA where those patients can continue to receive those services.
		There's a lot of work being done to improve some of the challenges of those programs and make it more feasible for more rural health clinics to offer those.
		But ultimately, that's oftentimes an opportunity for veterans where they live.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Amy, Citrus Heights, California, good morning.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air.
unidentified		Oh, thank you for taking my call, Mimi.
		Good morning to you and the guest.
		I'm calling, I live in Sacramento County, which is the capital in California here.
		And I moved here seven years ago from San Francisco.
		So I'm familiar with what good health care is.
		I have, I had a cancer, cervical cancer, and I now have Medicare and a secondary insurance, Medi-Cal, but it's breast and cervical cancer is what they call it here in California.
		And I'm beginning to see some changes in that.
		They are not covering my premiums starting, pardon me, this past July.
		I have to pay my premium each month.
		And it's extremely difficult to get a checkup up here, you know, like I should have one at least every six months.
		It's been over two years.
		And they're very limited on physicians up here.
		It's concerning what the future is going to bring.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Amy.
unidentified		Yeah, thank you so much for calling in.
		I will say that, you know, workforce recruitment and retention into rural communities is a big challenge, right?
		Ensuring that we can have an adequate number of providers to treat the patients that choose to live in those communities is critically important.
		In rural communities, we utilize physicians as well as a lot of nurse practitioners and physician assistants and associates.
		And so the broad range of team-based care is really, really critical in keeping these facilities open.
		Certainly, wait times can be longer because ultimately we just have a lower number of providers that we're working with.
		And then on your other point about, you know, Medicare and then your secondary that historically had picked up sort of your premiums and some of those additional out-of-pocket costs.
		I think unfortunately, perhaps this is an example of state Medicaid programs being forced to make tough decisions about how they're going to make up financial shortfalls in their budget, ultimately when the program is reformed at the federal level.
		So that's just one example of what ultimately states may choose to do as they're trying to make those numbers work.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk to Joe.
		He's in Michigan and he is a health care provider.
		Hi, Joe.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I was a firefighter medic out in the middle of nowhere.
		I delivered babies in barns and went to car wrecks out on gravel roads.
		And what I've noticed is that rural America is just emptying out.
		Our towns are turning into ghost towns again.
		You don't need them anymore because the population density isn't there because a farm that used to employ a family on 80 acres is now 8,000 acres because of big equipment.
		And rural America is just plain dying.
		If you can't drive 40 miles to work every day, then you're going to have a menial job in rural America.
		And it's just a fact of life.
		It's technology.
		It's the internet.
		It's Amazon.
		It's Walmart.
		It does it all.
		And we have to admit that, that things change.
		It happened in the old West in the 1890s when the towns became ghost towns.
		And it's happening again out here.
		Towns are boarded up.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So, Joe, you said you used to be a firefighter medic.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Did you move into town or are you just no longer doing that?
unidentified		I got old, but I moved.
unidentified		I was out there during the course of my business, but I lived in suburbia, and now I move to a semi-rural area where I sit on my porch and watch the river go by.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Joe.
unidentified		Go ahead.
		Yeah, thank you so much for calling in.
		I think that it is important to know that the communities, the rural of 50 years ago is different than the rural today, absolutely.
		And we have to be innovative in our solutions and our care delivery.
		I think, you know, telehealth is something that we've talked about a lot as an opportunity to reach individuals where they are.
		You know, it's best when we can have a brick and mortar facility, but perhaps when, you know, there is really low population and we can't entirely reach them through sustaining a clinic, maybe telehealth is an opportunity to fill in some of those gaps.
		We have to think really uniquely about what these changes mean for healthcare access in those communities.
		Absolutely.
		I think for individuals, for patients that choose to continue living in these communities, though, for a variety of reasons, they ultimately deserve access to health care as well, right?
		That can look like a lot of different things, but ultimately I still think they deserve that access.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Gregory Latrobe, Pennsylvania, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I would like to talk about the people in Pennsylvania that are even like I'm in between Pittsburgh, other than nature of them, between Pittsburgh and more rural areas.
		My area is considered rural, and I have dual coverage under Medicare.
		But the thing is, is I've already found out in 26, like they're going to cut in half the additional help I get from Medicaid to help pay for certain prescriptions.
		Now I'll be paying, instead of paying a zero on some of my prescriptions that are brand name, I'll be paying $4.90 come 2026.
		So they're already cutting back.
		And UPMC, who I have, is great.
		But the thing is, they've done so many things in the past to offer me things that I need that I'm not getting those offers anymore.
		They're cutting back on everything that has to do with Medicaid already.
		And I'll tell you, there's people here that have fell through the cracks.
		Whole families have fallen through the cracks because of disasters like mine.
		We had houses, properties, trailer parks, car lots, but we fell through the cracks because of a disaster.
		And that disaster put me into a position where I had to go on Medicare.
		Well, when I was Medicare, fine.
		But I had to also get Medicaid to give me that extra help.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So Gregory, can you tell me why they are, have they given you any reason that the prices are going up on Medicaid?
unidentified		No, I just got a new pamphlet.
unidentified		I got my original pamphlet for 2026 from them, but then I got an additional pamphlet in the mail just days ago telling me of new changes in 2026 that weren't in the 2026 packet.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And Sarah, why would those prices go up?
unidentified		Yeah.
		So, you know, I can't speak for every different state Medicaid plan and what they're choosing to do, but ultimately, when states have less federal dollars to make up their Medicaid, their Medicaid pot of money, right?
		It's a state federal program.
		When they have less federal dollars or they anticipate less federal dollars in the future years, they only have a couple of options in terms of how they balance their budgets moving forward, right?
		They can, unfortunately, cut different benefits.
		They can change their eligibility rules so less individuals are able to access those services.
		They can take from other pots of money in the state budget, right?
		But that's challenging for a host of reasons as well.
		Or they can cut payments to providers, right?
		And then those providers are in many cases less likely to then take those Medicaid patients.
		So they only have a set number of options that they can take moving forward.
		And every state is going to handle that differently in the wake of the Medicaid reforms that we saw signed into law previously this year.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Jesse in Virginia, good morning.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Yes.
		First, I got a couple of statements and a question for you, guests.
		First of all, to every ward, there are casualties.
		That's my first statement.
		And next is when it comes down to who's in charge is where we have a problem.
		They are the ones who should be able to help or make this shutdown and the impact that it's having on this country better.
		And then my question for the guests is, I think I heard her say something about making investments into the Big 100 Big Beautiful Plan.
		And I would like to know how can individuals benefit from investing into the Big Beautiful Plan when it comes down to health care.
		Thank you.
		Thank you for your call and your question.
		So the $50 billion rural health transformation fund that was included in the reconciliation package passed this summer, individuals unfortunately cannot apply for that funding.
		States are going to apply for that funding.
		So the governor in every state is responsible for creating that application.
		They have a pretty short timeframe.
		Those applications are due by November 5th.
		I will say, if you're an individual interested in how you can get involved in the transformation of rural health care in your state, reach out to your state governor's office or your state office of rural health about the opportunities to perhaps get engaged.
		They're looking for those transformative ideas.
		That's ultimately how their application is going to be scored well.
		So get engaged in that process, even though you can't apply as an individual yourself.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Julie in Illinois, you're our last call.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		I just wanted to comment on the man who said, oh, if people choose to live in a rural community, it's their own fault and blah, blah, blah.
		First of all, people are born into these communities, and a lot of people don't have the opportunity to move out of the community.
		They don't have the resources to move.
		I'd also like to say, where does this man think his food comes from?
		If the rural communities just said, oh, well, if you don't live out here, you don't eat, too bad for you, there'd be a lot of trouble there in those non-rural communities.
		Also, as far as access to health care, I myself am disabled, and when I became disabled, I did apply to have, I was forced to go onto Medicare, which was way more expensive than my plans under the ACA.
		And so I have to pay more for Medicare than I did under the ACA, and my benefits are way less.
		I have a Medicare Advantage plan, but in Illinois, I did not qualify, even on my very low income at that point.
		I made too much with $1,600 a month to get Medicare or Medicaid assistance.
		And so I was billed $40 a month for each of my children to be on all kids.
		And so if you're, every kid in Illinois is eligible for all kids, but they make you pay for it.
		And that makes your kids ineligible to get care under the ACA.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Joy.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Last comment, Sarah.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Thank you for sharing your experience.
		I think broadly, healthcare is very expensive, and there's a lot of efforts being made to try to reduce that overall number.
		You know, unfortunately, there's no magic solution in order to do it, but I think what we continue to advocate for is coverage for individuals who meet that eligibility and understanding why they don't meet that eligibility.
		Our rural health clinics are really on the front lines in helping their patients navigate those coverage options and then ultimately providing that care.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's Sarah Homan, National Association of Rural Health Clinics, Government Affairs Director.
		You can find them on the web at narhc.org.
		Thanks so much for joining us.
unidentified		Thank you for having me.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Up next, we'll end the program with more of your phone calls in Open Forum.
		You can start calling in now.
		Republicans, 202-748-8001.
		It's 202-748-8000 for Democrats and 202-748-8002 for Independents.
		And also, our line for federal workers is 202-748-8003.
		Stay with us.
unidentified		Friday on C-SPAN's Ceasefire, Maryland Democratic Governor Wes Moore and Oklahoma Republican Governor Kevin Stitt sit down together with host Dasha Burns.
		Ceasefire, Friday at 7 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN.
		So you interviewed the other night.
		I watched it about 2 o'clock in the morning.
		There was a little thing called C-SPAN, which I don't know how many people were watching.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Don't worry, you were on primetime too, but they happen to have a little rerun.
patty murray ▲ ● ▼		Do you really think that we don't remember what just happened last week?
patty murray ▲ ● ▼		Thank goodness for C-SPAN, and we all should review the tape.
unidentified		Everyone wonders when they're watching C-SPAN what the conversations are on the floor.
al green ▲ ● ▼		I'm about to read to you something that was published by C-SPAN.
sean duffy ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of things that Congress fights about that they disagree on.
unidentified		We can all watch that on C-SPAN.
		Millions of people across the country tuned into C-SPAN.
		That was a make-for-C-SPAN moment.
		If you watch on C-SPAN, you're going to see me physically across the aisle every day, just trying to build relationships and try to understand their perspective and find common ground.
		And welcome forward to everybody watching at home.
patty murray ▲ ● ▼		We know C-SPAN covers this a lot as well.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		We appreciate that.
unidentified		And one can only hope that he's able to watch C-SPAN on a black and white television set in his prison cell.
		This is being carried live by C-SPAN.
		It's being watched not only in this country, but it's being watched around the world right now.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Mike said before, I happened to listen to him, he was on C-SPAN 1.
unidentified		That's a big upgrade, right?
		The Navy 250 Gala at the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia.
		A star-studded Victory at Sea concert on Independence Mall, including actor and retired Marine Rob Wriggle as MC, Patty LaBelle, the elite Marine Corps band, and others.
		A commemoration of the Navy's founding, including a Blue Angels flyover, the U.S. Navy's 250th anniversary celebration this holiday weekend, only on C-SPAN, official media partner of America 250.
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		Washington Journal continues.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back to Washington Journal.
		We're an open forum.
		Anything you'd like to talk about, our lines are open for you regarding public policy.
		We're in day 11 of the government shutdown.
		There's also the Gaza ceasefire and the Mideast Peace Plan.
		Lots of other things happening in Washington, whatever you'd like to talk about.
		But earlier this week, we had Vice President, former Vice President Mike Pence and former Obama chief of staff and Chicago Mayor Rah Emmanuel on our program called Ceasefire, and they talked about the future of their parties.
		It was our premiere episode of the program, and here's a portion of it.
dasha burns ▲ ● ▼		When it comes to the future of your opposing party, so Mr. Vice President, the future of the Democratic Party, do you want to see it go in the direction of a Rahm Emmanuel or say an AOC?
mike pence ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I would never want it to go in the direction of a Rahm Emmanuel.
		I like him on television.
		Stay there.
tim kaine ▲ ● ▼		Look, I went to the inauguration in January.
mike pence ▲ ● ▼		And frankly, I was overwhelmed by the number of Republicans and Democrats that thanked me for being there after the difficulties of four years ago.
		But I knew it was my duty to be there, to celebrate again the peaceful transfer of power.
		But I had a senator come up to me, Dasha, and put his hand on my shoulder, and he says, great to see you, Mr. Vice President.
		He said, this is a funny business we're in.
		And I looked him in the eye and I said, it's not a business.
unidentified		It's a country.
mike pence ▲ ● ▼		And he said, you're right.
		I mean, at the end of the day, and I don't think I've served with anybody better politics than Rahm Emanuel.
		And I know he has respect for me and my abilities.
		But at the end of the day, we're all Americans.
		We really have large challenges facing the country.
		We have a national debt of more than $37 trillion that the one consensus in Washington is that both political parties today are essentially saying, we're going to do nothing about the national debt.
		We're going to leave it to our children and grandchildren.
		We have, as Rahm said very forcefully in his role in Japan, China continues its military provocations.
		It continues to menace in the Asia Pacific.
		Russia continues to storm forward in Ukraine.
		We've made progress in the Middle East, but there are real issues that we're going to confront as a nation, and we're going to have to figure out a way to talk to each other.
unidentified		Can I give you a question?
		We have like 10 seconds.
		Two seconds.
rahm emanuel ▲ ● ▼		One, what the Republican Party is missing is more Mike Pence.
		If you had a Republican Congress and Senate that was more like Mike Pence, there'd be guardrails and bumpers against what President Trump's trying to do.
		It's an unhinged, he has no control, there's no control, there's no stopping, there's no kind of pause here, and it's a mistake.
unidentified		And the Republicans in Congress Senate own what's happening here.
		And obviously, we disagree about what it is.
		I think this is a very bad moment.
rahm emanuel ▲ ● ▼		Second, one thing I learned in Japan is a lot about America.
		There is nothing China's doing that scares me.
		What scares me about the future is division in America and the fact that we see each other as enemies, not as Americans.
		Mike and I disagree about 99.9% of the things, but I never doubted his commitment to the country and his commitment to public service.
unidentified		Today, we have a sense that we are in a politics.
		And I put this on the president.
		His job is to find the ceasefire.
		His job is to lead and not have a moment where every American is pitted against another American.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And that is our new program called Ceasefire.
		We will re-air that actually right after this program.
		So in about 20 minutes, if you missed it last night, you will get to see the whole program right after this program.
		So please stay with us for that.
		I just want to show you real quick a post on X.
		So last night, Russ Vogt, the director of OMB, put out a post on X that said the RIFs, which is reduction force, have begun.
		And then the AFGE responded with the lawsuit has been filed.
		Now, AFG is the American Federation of Government Employees.
		They're a union for government employees.
		About 820,000 federal workers are part of that union.
		And they have announced now a lawsuit has been filed against those layoffs that have already started and were sent out yesterday evening.
		It's Open Forum.
		Pete, South Newberry, New Hampshire, Democrat, you're on the air.
		Go ahead, Pete.
unidentified		Yeah, hi.
		Yeah.
		I'm back to the top stories of the week.
		I've got four bullet points here for you.
		You know, and every week is busy because there's a lot of crimes and unconstitutional acts going on every day from this administration.
		But I'd like to know about people's thoughts on the hex.
		The Qatari deal is going to build a little Air Force base in Idaho, which is very interesting since they are a sponsor of terrorism.
		Another highlight of the week was RFK, who is a complete kook.
		Circumcision causes autism.
		And then I think one of your callers talked about Pam Bondi, about how unhinged she was at that hearing.
		You know, just, and I've never seen it.
		The tweet even with she was given orders to start prosecuting these people.
		I mean, it's not even under the table.
		It's right out there in the open.
		And then, fourthly, airports are now showing.
		I was in line at the TSA, Christy Numbs mentioning that the Democrats are responsible for the inconveniences you suffer at the airport.
		I didn't know airports, movies, sporting events were supposed to be political.
		So I'd love to hear from my friends on the other side.
		There really isn't much to defend here, but we're on a really bad path.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Pete.
		And his first point was about that Air Force base.
		That is on CNN.com, U.S. announces it will allow Qatar to build an Air Force facility in Idaho.
		Their planes will be there.
		The Qatari F-15 fighter jets and pilots will train alongside U.S. troops.
		You can read that at cnn.com for more information.
		And here's Ryan, Orange, Massachusetts, Independent Line.
unidentified		Hi, thanks for having me.
		I called earlier, but it was on a later tail.
		I think one of the two tough stories, news stories of the week, are the deficit spending that's going on and the shutdown of the government.
		I think both parties have to realize that they are both overspending.
		The Republicans overspend it in the military.
		The Democrats overspend it in entitlements.
		I think the whole thing has to be dealt with on an expenditure line.
		Number two, I think Donald Trump, if this hostage crisis works out, I think he should earn the Nobel Peace Prize.
		And I think if he does, the Democrats are going to foam at the mouth like they always do.
		And as talking about what the gentleman previously talked about about the tweet, the fake AI tweet, I happen to think it was hilarious because it happens to be true.
		The Democratic Party, in the past four years, has defended illegals first and citizens last, and they've been a laughing joke trying to get health care for illegal immigrants.
		And that's all I feel about the top news stories.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Ryan, let's talk to Donnie next.
		Louisville, Kentucky, Republican.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I just have a couple of points.
		One on the Democratic Party's shutdown, because they're the only one that hasn't voted to open the government.
		And the old manager in Buzzman is the one that does the layoffs.
		And I just turned the channels and started watching some of the other news stations.
		And Hakeem Jeffries was on MSNBC saying that the 4,000 people that are being fired, they're not being fired.
		They're being laid off.
		I've been laid off three times in my life, and you can always draw unemployment until you're called back.
		But these aren't being fired.
		They're being laid off.
		They can be called back, or they can be on continuous layoff until finally they just let them go.
		But they are not being fired, so there's no reason for a lawsuit because he has the ability in the law to play his people off right now during the shutdown.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And here is Richard in Lynchburg, Virginia, Independent Line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I hope you're having a wonderful day.
		Yeah, take the salaries from the congressman and see how they feel about it.
		Take their salary from them.
		It'd be a whole lot different.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Richard.
		Well, yesterday, First Lady Melania Trump made an announcement.
		She said that she and Russian President Vladimir Putin had an open communication about the reunification of Ukrainian children that were in Russia, reunifying them with their families.
melania knauss trump ▲ ● ▼		Here's a portion: A world where dreams will be realized rather than faded by war.
		Much has unfolded since President Putin received my letter last August.
		He responded in writing, signaling a willingness to engage with me directly and outlining details regarding the Ukrainian children residing in Russia.
		And since then, President Putin and I have had an open channel of communication regarding the welfare of these children.
		For the past three months, both sides have participated in several back-channel meetings and calls, all in good faith.
		We have agreed to cooperate with each other for the benefit of all people involved in this war.
		My representative has been working directly with President Putin's team to ensure the safe reunification of children with their families between Russia and Ukraine.
		In fact, eight children have been rejoined with their families during the past 24 hours.
		Each child has lived in turmoil because of the war in Ukraine.
		Three were separated from their parents and displaced to the Russian Federation because of frontline fighting.
		The other five were separated from family members across borders because of the conflict, including one young girl who has now been reunited from Ukraine to Russia.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		First Lady Melania Trump, that full announcement is on our website if you would like to see the whole thing.
		By the way, for your schedule later this evening, our coverage of the U.S. Navy's 250th anniversary continues today.
		There's an event commemorating the Marine Corps' 250th anniversary.
		It's called Uncommon Valor.
		Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, Navy Secretary John Phelan, and Marine Corps Commandant General Eric Smith will be at the event.
		We'll have live coverage.
		That's from Iwo Jima in Arlington at 6.30 p.m. right here on C-SPAN.
		Then at 7.30 p.m. Eastern, coverage continues with the GA celebration.
		And you'll hear from Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro and Philadelphia Mayor Sherelle Parker.
		That's from the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia.
		Again, that's at 7.30.
		You can see that either here on C-SPAN on our app, C-SPANNOW, or online, c-span.org.
		And it is open forum.
		It's Jeanette in Burlington, Vermont.
		Democrat, hi, Jeanette.
unidentified		Hi, how are we doing?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		I want to tell you, and I want to be real about this, that Trump is stealing from the American people and giving tax cuts to billionaires like Amazon's leader Bezos Musk.
		I volunteer in a clinic in Burlington, Vermont, and right now they're taking infant formula from babies through the WIC program.
		This is America.
		We have to be concerned with our people, little babies that aren't going to get enough to eat.
		This is serious.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You're saying when you say they're taking it, meaning that because of the lapse in funding, the government shutdown, there won't be enough baby formula.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you're saying?
unidentified		Yes, it's through the WIC program, which is running out of funding.
		They're poor communities, and babies will not be getting their formula.
		And if you don't have formula for babies, they get malnourished.
		They get sick.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So, Jeanette, I want to tell you something.
		There had been news about President Trump saying that he was going to use tariff revenue and give that to WIC.
		So here's the Associated Press.
		It says WIC Food Program receives $300 million to keep running during government shutdown.
		That's at the Associated Press if you'd like to take a look at that.
		James in California, Line for Democrats.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, this is James.
		My concern is the Supreme Court of the nation.
		The Supreme Court is our problem.
		They're not doing what is necessary right now to stop this man from destroying our democracy.
		They need to stand up and do the right thing.
		The lower courts are doing their part, but the Supreme Court, Supreme Court is missing in action, and that's all I have to say.
		There's a lot of other things I could say, but the Supreme Court is what needs to take place right now.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, James, and on the Republican line in South Carolina, Linda, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, yes.
		I'd like to say that we are the fighting between Republicans and liberals.
		You hear what the liberals have to say.
		Yesterday, a lady was speaking.
		She called us bootleggers and we should be kicked in the face.
		And this is a government lady.
		Also, the reason why there's a shutdown, because Trump administration doesn't want to sign that $1 trillion.3 for hospitals, for illegals, and for transgender surgeries.
		So anyways, thank you for taking my call.
		You have a wonderful day.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Linda.
		Mary in Florida, Independent Line.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I'm sorry I missed the lady that was on previously concerning rural health care.
		I basically wanted to ask her what's happening in Alaska as far as the rural health care.
		I lived there for 43 years.
		Now I live in Florida.
		And there's only 82% of Alaska has absolutely no roads to any of the community.
		There's, you know, it's two and a half times the size of Texas.
		So most of it is rural health care.
		Let's face it.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And when you lived there, what did you do for health care, Mary?
unidentified		I worked for the state of Alaska.
		I'm actually retired from the state of Alaska.
		And I worked for a vocational school, basically, in a community that had 2,100 people in it.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And were you, did you have a clinic?
		Did you have a hospital?
		What did you do when you needed to see?
unidentified		I did not.
		I did not.
		But I actually started in Alaska when I first went there.
		I was employed by the Chamber of Commerce, and that's why I know these little facts and figures.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Mary, let's talk to Deborah next.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Ohio Republican line, you're on the air, Deborah.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I think one of the things that I'm very interested in, and I think the American people should also be interested in this, in the details of how the Affordable Care Act is funded.
		Because I'm not sure that I know and understand it.
		When I was working, I was the head of a department and I had a budget to plan every year.
		And in my budget, I planned an additional 33% of my total labor cost just for benefits.
		Our ability to give benefits, private insurance, came from the fact that we were a profitable company.
		So it came from that.
		But my husband was a vice president of human resources globally.
		People in the United States have no idea what the cost of socialized medicine is.
		In Canada, sometimes, like in other countries, their actual cost is like 50% of their salary.
		But here in the United States, like Medicare, it's prepaid.
		You pay for it your entire life.
		It's a prepaid insurance plan.
		Like Social Security is a prepaid retirement plan.
		So, and in order to have affordable health care, one of the things that's really critical is that we have to understand that we are a country with chronic disease and it's expensive.
		Diabetes alone costs $330 billion a year.
		That means for every single person in the United States, our actual cost is $1,000 per person to pay for diabetes.
		And it's 90%, type 2 is 90% preventable.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's talk to Michelle Green Valley, Arizona Democrat.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Michelle.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I was watching today in regards to Trump receiving the Nobel Prize.
		I truly do not believe that he's entitled to that.
		I also do not believe that if the peace effort breaks down between Palestine and Israel, it definitely won't be Palestine's fault.
		I believe it'll be BB's fault, and that the U.S. should pull all funding from Israel, and that funding should be given back to the U.S. people.
		We've been funding Israel since the 1940s.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk to Robert in Lynchburg, Virginia, Independent.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Robert, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes, ma'am.
		Hey, man here.
		How are you?
		Good to talk to you.
		I just have a couple of things here that I just want to all of the Democrats and independents who voted for Trump.
		Now you see what he is doing.
		He said he's going to fire the ones that belong to the Democrat Party.
		And then this guy just called from Kentucky talking about it's just a layoff.
		But if you listen to the news this morning, you can pull it up yourself.
		You'll find out that it's firing.
		The Secretary said he's going to fire the people.
		He didn't say nothing about a day in the mall.
		He said he's going to fire 4,100 people.
		And that's on the news this morning.
		Thank you very much for taking my call.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And the term is, the government term is reduction in force.
		And here is James, Atlanta, Georgia, Republican.
		James, you're on the air.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
		I keep my comments, try to be brief and broader.
		I don't know where I fit in the scheme of 330 Americans or all of those who vote, but I'm increasingly losing trust in about anything that comes out of Washington, D.C. I'm not a constitutional scholar, but I know how our government is supposed to function.
		It has to function when it does by compromise between the two major political parties.
		When the two parties don't talk to each other and they're talking points in public or past each other, making, frankly, specious or exaggerated allegations of the world coming to doom, we're dealing with everyday problems that affect all of us.
		Health care, a $37 trillion national debt, the fairness of the tax system, national security, and frankly, out of the executive branch, we get exaggerations or outright lies.
		When the president speaks to troops, he speaks in a political tone.
		He doesn't thank them for their service.
		He doesn't appreciate what they do to secure the nation.
		And he makes allegations that, under me, I've raised defense so much.
		Look at the defense part of the budget.
		First of all, there is no budget yet because the House hasn't passed one, neither has the Senate.
		But it doesn't account for even hardly inflation.
		That means there's no real increase in defense spending.
		Meantime, we have this argument, and the House is shut down because a feckless, weak House Speaker will not allow the House to come into session to vote on a pretty simple matter.
		There was a crime committed by some people against underage young women.
		I cannot let that go.
		We cannot let that go.
		And the House wants to pass a resolution to get files on that because the administration won't release them.
		And the Speaker of the House won't allow a vote.
		That is not a Democratic form of government.
		The Republican Party, the MAGA wing, and Trump have lost their absolute minds.
		They are going where no one has gone before in our country.
		And for myself, I've voted Republican my entire life.
		I am now telling my congressman I'm inclined to vote Democrat.
		We have two Democratic senators in Georgia, one's coming up for reelection.
		The only candidates for the Republican nomination are out there wearing big cowboy hats and saying, I'm a Magite with a picture of Trump.
		And we have one of the candidates who wants to pass a resolution to somehow make up a different version of the Nobel Peace Prize and give it to Donald Trump.
		I've written them all letters.
		You can kiss me off.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, James, and we are out of time for today's Washington Journal.
		Thanks to everybody that watched today and that called in and participated with us.
		We will see you again tomorrow morning at 7 a.m. Eastern.
		Right now, we're going to take you over to a re-air of our program, Ceasefire.
		It was the first one.
		It's a weekly program.
		We hope that you will stay with us to watch that program.
		Have a great day, everybody.
unidentified		This evening, our coverage of the U.S. Navy's 250th anniversary continues with Navy and Marine Corps leaders speaking at a gala celebration.
		They'll be joined by Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro and Philadelphia Mayor Sherelle Parker from the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia.
		Watch it live at 7:30 p.m. Eastern.
		We'll have it on C-SPAN, C-SPAN Now, our free mobile app, and online at cspan.org.
		Have been watching C-SPAN Washington Journal for over 10 years now.
		This is a great format that C-SPAN offers.
		You're doing a great job.
		I enjoy hearing everybody's opinion.
		I'm a huge C-SPAN fan.
		I listen every morning on the way to work.
		I think C-SPAN should be required viewing for all three branches of government.
		First of all, if you say hello, C-SPAN, and how you all covered the hearings.
		Thank you, everyone at C-SPAN, for allowing this interaction with everyday citizens.
		It's an amazing show to get real opinions from real people.
		Appreciate you guys' non-biased coverage.
		I love politics, and I love C-SPAN because I get to hear all the voices.
		You and C-SPAN show the truth.
		Back to the universe for C-SPAN.
		It's the one essential news network.
		We're funded by these television companies and more, including MidCo.
		Where are you going?
		Or maybe a better question is, how far do you want to go?
		And how fast do you want to get there?
		Now we're getting somewhere.
		So let's go.
		Let's go faster.
		Let's go further.

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