CSPAN - Washington Journal 09/28/2025

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Sept. 28, 2025 07:00-10:03 - CSPAN

03:02:52

Washington Journal 09/28/2025

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kimberly adams

cspan 35:06

muzaffar chishti

28:38

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Coming out this morning on Washington Journal, along with your calls and comments live, we'll talk with Clifford Young of Ipsos about his organization's latest polling on public opinion of President Trump's second term.
		And then the Migration Policy Institute's Muzaffar Chisti discusses the Trump administration's new restrictions to H-1B visas for skilled foreign workers.
		Also, Laura Blessing of Georgetown University will discuss a potential government shutdown next week and its impact on federal workers and agencies.
		Washington Journal is next.
		Join the conversation.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		It's Sunday, September 28th, 2025.
		President Trump's disapproval rating continues to rise, and recent polling shows him underwater on issues of tariffs, foreign policy, and immigration.
		Many of the president's moves thus far have been controversial, but he shows no sign of changing course.
		This morning, we want to hear from you.
		What do you think are President Trump's best and worst actions thus far?
		Our phone lines for Democrats, 202-748-8000.
		For Republicans, 202-748-8001.
		And for Independents, 202-748-8002.
		You're welcome to text us.
		That number is 202-748-8003.
		Please be sure to include your name and where you're writing in from.
		We're also on social media at facebook.com/slash C-SPAN and on X at C-SPANWJ.
		Now, that polling I was referencing was done by the Washington Post in partnership with Ipsos, and the Washington Post has reporting on that, finding most Americans critical of Trump on crime, economy, and other issues.
		The Post-Ipsos survey paints a downbeat picture of Trump's presidency as Americans disapprove of his performance by double-digit margins on a broad range of issues.
		As President Trump makes plans to send the National Guard to cities beyond Washington, he's facing a public critical of his handling of crime and his use of the military to combat it, according to a Washington Post-Ipsos poll.
		The survey finds that Americans disapprove of Trump's performance on crime by a 10 percentage point margin and oppose him ordering the National Guard to other cities by a four-point margin.
		However, Americans say that they trust Republicans over Democrats on crime by a 2 to 1 margin, showing how the issue is not a clear-cut political winner for the president's critics.
		Republicans also hold advantages over Democrats on the economy and immigration, though a majority still say they want Democrats to control the next Congress as a quote-unquote check on Trump.
		And in particular, there was a question related to Trump's authority to take some of the actions that he has, with 62% saying that President Trump's actions have gone beyond his authority as president, 36% saying that Trump has acted within his authority as president.
		Now, for more on the results of that polling, we are joined now by Clifford Young, who is the polling and societal trends president at Ipsos Public Affairs.
		Good morning, Cliff.
		So, this recent survey with the Washington Post was taken at the eight-month mark of President Trump's second term.
		I want to look at the overall approval ratings.
		What was your takeaway on how people think President Trump is doing?
unidentified		Yeah, so we really wanted to gauge where the administration was, where Trump was, going into the fall into the last quarter of this year.
		When it comes to approval ratings, we had them at 43%.
		The big question is, is that good, bad, or indifferent?
		And it really depends on how you look at it.
		On the one hand, if you compare Trump to his first term, 2017, he's doing better.
		If you look at Trump's performance over the course of the year, from the honeymoon period where he was at 51% or so to now 43%, that's a decline of 8%.
		That ultimately is worse than the historic average.
		Historic average is around 6%.
		But in this highly polarized time where we're very divided as a nation, any number in the mid-40s is a reasonable number.
		I think the historic averages, we have to be careful.
		So what I would say is he is holding his own.
		There's some resiliency there.
		He's weak around the edges.
		And we're really looking at the rest of the year, especially the fourth quarter of this year, first quarter of next year, and what will be the impact of tariffs and their inflationary aspect on people's perceptions of the administration.
		But for now, I would give him a passing grade.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Let's look at your poll, and your survey asked respondents to weigh in on his handling of several issues specifically.
		His best issues seem to be immigration and crime, although that's still below the 50% mark.
		His worst is the handling of the economy and tariffs, the Ukraine-Russia conflict, but let's go through them.
		So on tariffs, you have 64% disapproving, 34% approving.
		On the issue of Russia and Ukraine, 60% disapprove of the president's handling of that versus 38% approve.
		On the economy, 59% disapprove.
		40% approve.
		Israel and Gaza, 58% disapprove, 39% approve.
		On immigration, 55% disapprove.
		44% approve of his performance.
		And finally, on crime, where he seems to be doing the best here, 54% disapprove, 44% approve.
		What does that tell you about sort of in the nuance of how people are viewing this presidency?
unidentified		Yeah, well, first and foremost, as I was saying before, I think the standard in this highly polarized time are mid-40s.
		So any president that's in the mid-40s on any given specific issue is doing a reasonably good job.
		And so obviously his banner issues are crime, and they historically have been for Republicans, as well as immigration.
		He's doing reasonably well in those sort of mid to low mid-40s.
		Where he really is taking on water is tariffs.
		And there, once again, people are very worried.
		Americans are very worried about the inflationary aspects of tariffs.
		Now, they haven't hit yet.
		It's only nibbling at the margins.
		It's affecting a bit households and how they make the decisions.
		But there's an anticipation that tariffs will have a strong impact.
		And the last point I would make is we see that both Gaza as well as Ukraine puts Trump below 40%, which is a difficult place to be.
		And this is much more reflective of Americans' position today relative to foreign policy, relative to muscular foreign policy, much more than saying anything specifically about the Trump administration.
		Americans and especially young Americans are very much hesitant to put America in harm's way.
		This is a long-term trend that we see, and these numbers just reflect that.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		I want to go back to this question that you asked in your survey about whether President Trump has acted within his authority as president or if he's gone beyond his authority.
		62% saying that his actions have gone beyond his authority as president.
		36% saying that he's acted within his authority.
		What do you make of these numbers?
unidentified		Yeah, it's very reflective of this year of this administration, of his administration.
		He has thwarted norms.
		He has pushed up against convention.
		There's been friction all around.
		Indeed, we can remember back in early spring when he first was pushing the tariff agenda, the trade agenda, there was a lot of consternation, a lot of worry, a lot of trepidation among elites and with public opinion.
		Actually, his approval ratings dipped to the low 40s, even lower than today.
		And so I read this as sort of a generalized sort of feeling that the administration is not doing things like normal.
		If you were to talk to Democrats, they would say it's a threat to democracy.
		If you were to talk to Republicans, they would say he's doing what needs to be done to fix a broken system, to fix America.
		But in a general sense, Americans do feel that he is conducting himself in a way quite different from historical presidencies.
		Indeed, we compared him to the Biden administration, and actually those numbers are almost flipped, where most people believed that Biden conducted his administration, conducted his government within the norms, within the convention, relative to Trump.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		You also asked an open-ended question of the people that you were talking to for this survey of what President Trump's best and worst actions have been while in office.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Anything in there surprise you?
unidentified		Well, first and foremost, it is all about immigration.
		That is his primary, that is Trump's primary agenda.
		It has been since 2015, since he kind of came down the elevator, the escalator, excuse me, in New York to announce his candidacy at the time.
		And that's the issue most cited as being positive, as a positive aspect of his agenda.
		But it's also the one that's most critiqued, most criticized.
		It's the number one critique of his agenda as well.
		In addition to that, there's a spattering of other sorts of issues like tariffs, like Doge, right?
		Increased efficiency.
		I think the most interesting thing there, kind of takeaway, above and beyond just immigration being the central issue, positive or negative, is that Doge and that efficiency agenda has kind of epered off.
		It's fallen off from being top of mind among Americans.
		I remember the shock and all at the beginning of the administration with Elon Musk.
		That, if not forgotten, has sort of been pushed to the side as Americans focus on other issues, especially and principally immigration.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you so much.
		Clifford Young is the polling and societal trends president at Ipsos Public Affairs.
		I appreciate your time this morning.
unidentified		Thank you so much.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		And again, we want to hear from you all.
		What do you think are President Trump's best or worst actions taken so far in his second term?
		Our phone lines again for Democrats, 202-748-8000.
		For Republicans, 202-748-8001.
		And for Independents, 202-748-8002.
		We'll start with Melvin in Richmond, Virginia, on our line for Democrats.
		Good morning, Melvin.
unidentified		Good morning, Kimberly.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		Kimberly, may you live long and prosper.
		Now, let's get to this subject here.
		As far as what Trump's worst attributes are, everything that he does is awful, okay?
		And of course, as we have been stating, that, of course, immigration gets the biggest number, 55%, and that's based on the fact that the Republican Party is and always has been a racist party.
		Now, after we had elected Obama for two terms, they were so upset, the Republicans, that they set out to try to find someone who would be, quote unquote, their great white hope.
		And of course, what they ended up with is the great white dope.
		And of course, the Republicans are always against anything that is progressive and anything that has to do with helping people, whether it's immigration, whether it's gay rights, whether it gets women's rights or the right to choose.
		That's all part of their little agenda.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So Melvin, in terms of specific actions that the president has taken, does anything in particular rank for you as the best or worst?
unidentified		Well, he has no best.
		everything that he does is worse everything that he does so is there a particular thing that you think is think is worst Yes.
		He is working toward robbing the country blind.
		All of his financial things like Doge and like the tariffs and like how he's handling these companies like Intel and what he's doing with NVIDIA.
		All those things are designed to put money back into the coffers, not to pay the debt down, which is what everybody thinks.
		That money is going to end up in his pocket via his meme coins, via the sovereign wealth fund, and via probably what is considered a safe coin, a stable coin, I'm sorry.
		So everything he's doing is he wants to get the money back into the coffers, but instead of paying down the debt, which is $37 trillion, he's going to use that money to end up in his pocket.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So Melvin, I want to look more at the polling in terms of what people, critics of the president, like you, have said are the worst things that Trump has done, according to that Washington Post Ipsos polling.
		And this is for that open-ended question, the share who said that each of these things was the worst thing that Trump has done since entering office, excluding those who gave no answer.
		20% said his actions on immigration.
		13% said tariffs.
		9% said destroying the democracy or the Constitution.
		9% were like Melvin and said everything.
		When it comes to Trump's personal conduct or lying or the Epstein files, 7%.
		Government cuts, Musk slash Doge, 7%.
		Or something else, Melvin highlighted, treatment of minority groups and dividing the country, 7%.
		Let's go to Robert in Indiana on our line for Republicans.
		Good morning, Robert.
unidentified		I'll tell you what.
		If we didn't have Trump, we wouldn't have nothing.
		That's for sure.
		Everybody, hate, hate, hate.
		Trump is doing a good job.
		If Democrats, I don't even know why we're paying them.
		I don't know how I play in Congress.
		They're worthless.
		They won't vote for nothing.
		Humor, all he does get out of that blow his horn.
wayne paul ▲ ● ▼		He should be in trial right now for threatening Earth.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So, Robert, is there a specific action that the president has done that you think is his best action so far in this administration?
unidentified		He's done a good job.
		People are leaving alone.
		He could do it better.
		If the Democrats would work with him, we'd have a country.
		All they can think about is destroying.
		Look, what's happening in our streets?
		You people, I tell you, I don't like Chiefs fam.
		They call nothing but Democrats.
wayne paul ▲ ● ▼		Every day, the first thing you do, Democrat, or independent.
unidentified		The independents might as well be Democrats, because they're against Trump.
unidentified		So this country needs straightened out.
wayne paul ▲ ● ▼		The only way we're going to get it straightened out is when God comes back and takes care of these people that don't believe in God.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		And let's hear from John in Esipus, New York on our line for independence.
		Good morning, John.
unidentified		Yeah, thanks very much.
		No, I was, this guy from the Washington Journal, I would have liked to ask him a question, but I found that he comes on, you ask a question that targets Donald Trump, his administration, and most of the information, given his poll numbers are dropping.
		It's very negative.
		And it would have been nice.
		It would have been very nice.
		There's other polls that are out, and I've been watching them on the news cycles, that the Democrats are below 30%.
		So it would have been nice if you could go back to the old way of doing your presentation so you could have somebody that represents the Republican Party and speaks out on their behalf.
		And this guy that you had on there that condemns everything that Donald Trump was doing, his tariffs, his economy, his immigration issues, and all that.
		So I think it would be nice for your audience.
		And that way, a lot of these callers that call in, you just have two professionals.
		They study this stuff for a living, and you could have two sides of the story.
		They could have a nice little debate amongst themselves right in front of your audience.
		And it would make your program so much fairer.
		I take the Washington Journal turned very far left almost because every morning, every question and you have one single guest on there, and they are very, very lean to the left.
		I mean, and then all your media.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So, John, I think the poll that you're referencing is the Quinnipiac poll, which found that the Democratic Party hit it.
		This is a story from Fox News, hit another historic low in a national poll this week.
		30% of voters nationwide questioned in a Quinnipiac University survey said they have a favorable view of the Democratic Party, with 54% saying that they hold an unfavorable position.
		This is the lowest favorability rating for the Democratic Party since the Quinnipiac University poll began asking voters this question in 2008, the survey's release noted.
		So I think that's the poll that you're talking about in terms of Democrats.
		But, John, when it comes to President Trump's second term, what do you think are his best or worst actions taken so far?
unidentified		I tell you, I was concerned about the immigration issue with Biden and the numbers of people that were coming across that border based on what I saw on TV in the coverage.
		And then I think this thing with the tariffs, that's a little bit above my head.
		But I think from what I understand, and my understanding is minimal, but that I think it's, you know, the United States deserves to get better treatment when it comes to trade and stuff like that, when you find out that we owe this country this much money to that country.
		And then the other thing was, geez, I don't know.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		On tariffs, John, are you saying that you think that that was a good thing or a bad thing what the president is doing in terms of tariffs?
unidentified		I think some, in my opinion, from what I know, my minimal amount of knowledge about this is Did you go overboard on some of it?
		But I think some of it was good.
		So maybe you've got to get a balance there.
		You don't want to destroy your relationships with your allies and stuff like that.
		You don't want to upset everything and get everybody upset and rocked about too much.
		But I think a little bit, maybe it could have gone a little slower, but I don't know.
		Maybe what he did was right.
		But yeah, that's above me.
		But I wish he had, I wish you could bring on two people that could sit across the table with each other so we can just hear two sides of the story, and then that would give us the opportunity to balance things out in our own minds.
		But I don't know.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		I want to hear from Gregory in Grand Prairie, Texas on our line for Democrats.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Gregory.
unidentified		Yes, my name is Gregory.
		Called about Trump.
		Trump doesn't like to be talked to.
		He doesn't like to be educated.
		He is what they call low IQ.
		He's very low IQ.
		He has his guns out there, knocking people in the head, all up in D.C., all in Chicago.
		He's making a threat to black people.
		He don't want that vote.
		That's him.
		That's what he do.
		That's what he do best.
		If it's not people done, he does not like people of color.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So, Gregory, what would you say have been the president's best or worst actions so far?
unidentified		He don't like black people.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		That's the worst one you would say?
unidentified		That's the worst.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Is there a particular action that you tie to that?
unidentified		Say that again.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Is there something in particular that he's done that makes you think that?
unidentified		He doesn't like me.
		That's personal.
		Trump ought to be ashamed of himself for being a man.
		And he needs to change that diaper.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Ed is in Lawrenceville, Georgia, on our line for Republicans.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Ed.
unidentified		Morning.
		Let's start from the very beginning.
		No Republican has ever been documented to own a slave, okay?
		That's number one.
		Number two, the Democrats were so mad when we freed the slaves, the Republicans, only a few Democrats voted for it, but the Democrats referred to black people as monkeys, baboons, apes.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		And Ed, is there something in particular from President Trump's actions this administration that you think it would be his best or worst actions taken so far?
unidentified		Okay.
		The best thing he did was everything.
		Everything he's done has been good.
		Everything.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, then let's hear from Bruce in Athens, Tennessee on our line for independence.
		Good morning, Bruce.
unidentified		This is Bruce.
		My big thing is the national debt.
		And why isn't that mentioned in all each polls that he brought?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Bruce, can you move a little bit closer to your phone?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		You're just sounding a little quiet.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
		My name is Bruce.
		My problem is the national debt.
		Why isn't that these surveys?
		It's more important to me than anything else.
		Next thing would be immigration, what he's done.
		And I didn't like the way he's handling the tariffs.
		Thank you.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		John is in Eastern Pennsylvania on our line for Democrats.
		Good morning, John.
unidentified		Good morning, America.
		The best thing Trump's done was The Middle East, the war in the Middle East, but they screwed that up and it's getting worse.
		The worst thing he ever did was his desire to be a dictator and he's succeeding at that.
		I can't believe everybody was in line with him, but now all of a sudden everybody's starting to pull away from him.
		He's becoming dangerous.
		His judges aren't backing him up anymore.
		The politicians that stand around him stand there holding their nads while he's talking.
		They don't say a word.
		They look at him sideways.
		They're scared of the guy.
		And we ought to be too.
		He's going to make a problem.
		And if he doesn't get his dictatorship, he's going to get World War III.
		Period.
		Have a nice day.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		In that Washington Post Ipsos poll, 9% of people who are critics of President Trump listed destroying democracy or the Constitution as the worst thing that Trump has done since entering office.
		And we have some comments that we've received on social media.
		On Facebook, Jim says, I am not happy with the way that President Trump has handled Russia.
		It's well past time to be more forceful when it comes to Putin.
		We need to put up a no-fly zone over Ukraine.
		I am very pleased with the economy and the downsizing of the federal government.
		I just wish the Congress would make it permanent.
		And then Matthew says, the best is the immigration policy and tax cuts.
		The worst is the support for IVF and the handling of the Epstein files.
		Back to your calls on Trump's best and worst actions taken so far in his second term.
		Dave is in Valdosta, Georgia, on our line for Republicans.
		Good morning, Dave.
unidentified		Hi, Kim.
		It's really remarkable.
		You know, your first phone call that you took from a Democrat, I mean, he spewed nothing but sheer hatred of the Democrat Party and Donald Trump.
		Now, you look and see what Donald Trump has been going through the last five years, and you think about this whole, he can't do a thing, and the Democrats will give no help whatsoever.
		And so, if something fails or something doesn't work out the way you think it might, it's going to be all Donald Trump.
		It's never going to be.
		You know, if we would have had some results from the left, maybe something would have happened better.
		But these guys on the left, you never give them credit for their defeats.
		And they have a lot of defeats.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So, Dave, what would you say would be the president's best or worst actions, in your opinion?
unidentified		Well, one of his worst or best actions I think of is the way he supports his people.
		When he goes into a situation and his people, and whether it be a military situation or the Secretary of Treasury, they're going through something like that.
		He discusses it with them and he says, I'm all with you.
		And he does.
		He supports them.
		This idea that the Democrats, they always keep that slip and slide out the back door.
		That they can always protect themselves.
		The important thing is protecting me.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Nisi is in Michigan on our line for Democrats.
		Good morning, Nisi.
unidentified		Good morning to all.
unidentified		In a bus.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		And Nisi, can you please turn down the volume on your TV and then go ahead with your points?
unidentified		Let me meet the people and voters.
		Okay, well, hold on.
		Okay.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Yep, go ahead.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		What do you think are President Trump's best or worst actions taken so far?
unidentified		The thing about it is that we have to learn to live together and get along and understand each other.
		Everybody is not the same.
		You have different people from all different areas of the world in America.
		What's on the Statue of Liberty is in the Bible.
		And if people don't understand that, I don't know where we're going.
		I don't even know how we're going to end up.
		I'm not afraid.
		I'm not understanding the people.
		And I try to love everyone because God has loved me.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		And, Nisi, is there something in particular that you think President Trump has or hasn't done to promote that idea?
unidentified		He hasn't.
		He's not a man of religion.
		He's not.
		He shouldn't have never been president.
		He should have been in prison.
		Okay?
		And I'm going to say that, and I'm going to leave it at that.
		And you have a blessed day, baby, and be safe in this world.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Ken is in West Sacramento, California, on our line for independence.
unidentified		Good morning, Ken.
		I can't believe I'm on the line.
		All I have to say is a scripture from Proverbs that says, a fool appears to be wise until he opens his mouth.
		Anyway, love from California.
		That's all I have to say.
		Love from California.
		Love the United States of America and its principles.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Craig is in Cleveland, Ohio, on our line for Republicans.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Craig.
unidentified		Good morning.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		What would you say are President Trump's best or worst actions so far in this term?
unidentified		He's exposing all the liberal rats for what they are, terrorist supporters.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Is there something in particular he's done that you think aligns with that?
unidentified		Yes, he's getting rid of the seashells by the seashore guy.
unidentified		Hope he has fun in prison with Gold Bar Bob and then does.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		I'm guessing you're talking about the indictment of James Comey.
		Right.
		Well, President Trump had this to say following the Comey indictment the other day.
		Let's listen.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		It's not a list, but I think there'll be others.
		I mean, they're corrupt.
		These were corrupt, radical-left Democrats.
		Comey essentially was a Democrats.
		He's worse than the Democrats.
		I would say the Democrats are better than Comey.
		There'll be others, but it was, that's my opinion.
		They weaponize the Justice Department like nobody in history.
		What they've done is terrible.
		And so I would, I hope they're, frankly, I hope they're others because you can't let this happen to a country.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Former FBI Director James Comey posted a video response to the indictment on Instagram on Thursday.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Here's what he said.
james comey ▲ ● ▼		My family and I have known for years that there are costs ending up to Donald Trump.
		But we couldn't imagine ourselves living any other way.
		We will not live on our knees, and you shouldn't either.
		Somebody that I love dearly recently said that fear is the tool of a tyrant, and she's right.
		But I'm not afraid.
		And I hope you're not either.
		I hope instead you are engaged, you are paying attention, and you will vote like your beloved country depends upon it, which it does.
		My heart is broken for the Department of Justice, but I have great confidence in the federal judicial system, and I'm innocent.
		So let's have a trial and keep the faith.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		That was former FBI Director James Comey responding to his indictment.
		Our question this morning: what do you think are President Trump's best or worst actions taken so far in his second term?
		Mary is in St. Petersburg, Florida, and is on our line for Democrats.
		Good morning, Mary.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I'm calling because I think the worst that Trump has ever done when he stood on the steps and said that he was going to make groceries go down, he was going to make get everything down and we wouldn't be this much in debt because, of course, he has debt all over the world.
		But, you know, he hasn't brought the groceries down.
		The terrorists have really taken a hold.
		And nothing that he's done seems to have been good.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Next up is Larry in Northern Cambria, Pennsylvania on our line for Republicans.
		Good morning, Larry.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		How are you doing today?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good, thanks.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		What do you think are President Trump's best or worst actions taken so far?
unidentified		I think the best so far has been the border, securing it.
		The worst actions is, I would say, maybe a little bit on the economy.
		He did say about bringing the prices down.
		It is coming down slowly.
		But I think also the terrorist that he's done, I think we just got to give it more time because, you know, they are working.
		He is bringing money into the country now.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean he's bringing money into the country?
unidentified		Well, it's the terrorists.
		We're bringing, you know, he's getting factories back.
		Companies are coming, building, creating jobs for the American people.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Next up is Charles in Preston, Connecticut on our line for independence.
		Good morning, Charles.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I just want to say one thing.
		I think the best thing that Trump ever did was he beat Kymala Harris in the election.
		And that's the best thing he did.
		And everything else after that falls in line.
		Thank you.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Larry is in Albany, Georgia, on our line for Democrats.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Larry.
unidentified		Yes.
		The worst thing Donald Trump has done is he has got the face of America all white.
		And all over the world right now, white people are hated because of him, because of all the wrong things that he's doing.
		And another thing, Larry, you still there?
		Yes, I'm still here.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		You need to turn down the volume on your TV and then you can continue.
unidentified		Okay.
		And the worst thing that he's done, but a lot of people don't know it, the people all over the world are looking at us as a dark spot now, not as a beacon of light, because Donald Trump did the unthinkable when he didn't support Ukraine.
		All Americans in the beginning was supporting Ukraine because we were sending money over there because they were killing babies, grown-ups, everything.
		And when Donald Trump said he was going to end the war in three days, it wasn't true.
		His intention was not to end the war.
		His intention was to prolong for Russia to win what he got to do.
dick gregory ▲ ● ▼		And the second thing is the reason that they say black Donald Trump don't like black people is in 1964, his father and him would not let blacks move into housing that the government was paying for.
unidentified		And they were sued because of being prejudiced.
unidentified		And they paid out over a million and some dollars.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Larry, you mentioned the president's actions on Ukraine and his shifting stance there.
		The president tweeted that or made a post on Truth Social saying that Ukraine is capable of winning back all of its territory taken by Russia.
		And he was asked about that statement alongside French President Emmanuel earlier this week at the United Nations.
		And here's what the president said.
emmanuel macron ▲ ● ▼		I just saw the message you issued after your meeting with President Zelinsky, and I think it's a very right one.
emmanuel macron ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if we back concretely Ukraine in this situation, given the Russian economy is suffering, I mean, there is this opportunity of a good future.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		It is.
emmanuel macron ▲ ● ▼		We'll back it.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
		I think so.
		They're very enthusiastic in a lot of ways.
		It's been a terrible war.
		It should have ended.
		And Russia should have stopped it.
		But they've been three and a half years and they've gotten that so far.
		So we'll see what happens.
		But the other side can fight too.
		And they've proven that maybe it's a paper.
		It could be that Russia is a paper tiger.
		I don't know what they are, but three and a half years of fighting and killing everybody, of killing 7,000 people a week for nothing, for nothing.
		So it's a very sad situation.
		But most of you have seen the recent statement I put out a little while ago.
		And I'm glad you got it.
		But I feel that way.
		I really do feel that way.
		Let them get their land back.
		So we'll see how it all works out.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Back to your calls.
		Don is in Salinas, California on our line for Republicans.
		Good morning, Don.
unidentified		Yeah, I've got a few things to say.
		You know, Donald Trump's done a lot of good things.
		I can point to immigration, and I can point also to the tariffs.
		And those are two things that our so-called free press will not explain to the American people.
		You won't explain to the American people that these tariffs are a negotiation tool and that Trump has gotten foreign countries to lower their tariff against American goods, which is a good thing.
		He's used these tariffs also to nudge NATO into putting more into NATO.
		He's done a lot of good things that is not explained to the American people.
		And let me say this also, when it comes to the Epstein files, Biden sat on those for years, and nobody in the so-called free press said boo about it.
		Now, when you look at things like that, you have to scratch your head.
		Why is Trump called things like a racist and a dictator?
		Why in the world is he called all of these things?
		And why is he a threat to democracy?
		I have to tell America this.
		I do not believe in the democracy that the Democrats do.
		The kind of democracy they believe in is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
		That's their form of democracy.
		America is not even a democracy.
		America is a representative republic, okay?
		And the free press won't explain that also.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So Don mentioned tariffs as an issue that was one of the better things that the president has done.
		4% of the folks in that Washington Post Ipsos poll listed tariffs as one of the best things that Trump has done.
		And also, immigration, of course, was the big winner there with 55% of those answering that open-ended question saying that that was one of the best things that the president has done in his second term.
		A few more comments from social media on Facebook.
		Richard says, of the worst, the tariff wars.
		The best, there are a couple of provisions in the big, beautiful bill that may help us seniors come tax time.
		I also like the no tax on tips.
		And then Alex says, of the best, $100,000 to hire, to make $100,000 to hire H-1B tech workers.
		The worst, going after Comey, profiting off Bitcoin and other things.
		And Charles says, for the best, border and immigration initiatives.
		The worst, the overuse of the National Guard.
		Patricia is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, on our line for independence.
unidentified		Good morning, Patricia.
		Good morning.
		I don't really want to, not the worst, but what I want to say is I'm actually surprised that the Doge and so forth, only 7% thought that that was like one of the worst or best things he did.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So 7% of the folks who answered that open-ended question said that that was one of the best things that he did.
		And then when we go down to look at, actually, you're right, 7% also listed it as the worst.
		So those numbers lined up.
unidentified		Okay.
		So I just want to make a comment, and I'd like to listen to the rest of the listening audience reply or respond.
		To me, Doge was probably the, I don't understand why it's not higher in an importance, because when they went through and took Social Security numbers and files from all the American people,
		and to this day, we really don't know what has happened to all of that information, which can actually bode very bad for us in the future.
		I'd like to hear someone else's opinion on that information and what has happened to it.
		Thank you.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Rocco is in Jenkinton, Pennsylvania on our line for Democrats.
		Good morning, Rocco.
unidentified		Hello there.
		The best thing he's done was lose the presidency to Biden.
		And the worst thing he's doing is he's weaponizing the justice system like he says he shouldn't do.
		Okay?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So, Rocco, can you turn down the volume on your TV and then you can continue with your point?
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Good morning.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		We heard the first part of what you said, but just make sure your TV volume is down and please continue.
unidentified		The best thing that Mr. Trump has ever done was lose the race to Biden, okay?
		And the worst thing he's doing is he's weaponizing the justice system.
		He's saying the same thing that punchers shouldn't do, but he's doing it.
		He's going after Comey and all the other people that he don't like.
		Okay?
		That's it.
		I can't stand him.
		He's a spoiled brat.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So Rocco mentioned the president potentially going after people.
		President Trump earlier this week did speak about potentially going after other political foes beyond former FBI Director James Comey.
		Here he is in the Oval Office on Thursday.
unidentified		Antifa Soros, what names are we talking about?
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Well, Soros is the name certainly that I keep hearing.
		I don't know, but Soros is the name that I hear.
		I hear a lot of different names.
		I hear names of some pretty rich people that are radical left people.
		Maybe I hear about a guy named Reed Hoffman.
		Somebody's a pretty rich guy, I guess.
		And I hear about him.
		I don't know.
		Maybe it could be him.
		Could be a lot of people.
		We hear the same names, but they're bad, and we're going to find out.
		And if they are funding these things, they're going to have some problems because they're agitators and they're anarchists.
		These are anarchists.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Bill is in Florida on our line for Republicans.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Bill, what would you say would be President Trump's best or worst actions taken so far in his second term?
unidentified		Gosh, I could take up the whole show with good things that President Trump has done.
		And he's just been great everything.
		3.8 GDP, folks.
		That is outstanding.
		Closed border, economy is doing great.
		There's just so much that's been good.
		And for the Democrat callers that talk about the retribution that he's going through after Comey and people, why is he going after these people?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Let's hear from Kevin in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan on our line for independence.
		Good morning, Kevin.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thank you for putting me on the air.
		I would say the best thing, which is hard for me, but I have to find one thing that Donald Trump is good.
		I would say putting Doug Bergman in the position of interior.
		I went down the list of the cabinet picks or whatever.
		He's the strongest pick.
		You don't hear anything.
		He's actually keeping his nose to the ground.
		That would be a positive point.
		I'm like a lot of people.
		I don't need a Sunday school lesson, which a lot of your colors are doing, which we have the right to voice that.
		But I would think the grifting, okay, is the center point, the nucleus.
		He's turned this country into a kleptocracy.
		And I'm not going to try to give a definition of that.
		Folks can look that up.
		It's for personal enrichment.
		And the thing I'm really troubled by, protracting his personality, my own viewpoint of him on a personal level, is I just want to scream out loud, which I usually do, when he says, well, I don't know.
		I hear things.
		I find him indecisive.
		And I find him just really, his temperament is getting in the way of policy.
		You know, I could come up with a list of things that we're all in disagreement with, but I just think he's, I think he's got some mental issues, which we probably all do.
		But this guy is a loose cannon.
		He's ruling by emotion, okay?
		And we can't have that.
john mcafee ▲ ● ▼		We need someone that interjects their opinion.
unidentified		And here's the policy and law.
		And I got to say one last point, and then I'll get out the air because other folks want to get on both sides, both sides of the spectrum.
		Don't they realize that Comey and him should be pals?
		When Comey came out in October of the election when Hillary was running, he kind of, you know, gave her a pass.
		They said he didn't find anything.
		But in the last 13 days, he handed that.
		He handed that.
		That was a softball, you know, an easy pitch where he could hit it out of the park.
		Was to go after him.
		I just don't understand.
		But I appreciate what you guys are doing.
		I could go on and on, but that's not the point.
		But thank you for letting me voice my opinion.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Prince is in South Carolina on our line for Democrats.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Prince.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Good morning.
		Can you hear me?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		What would you say are the president's best or worst actions taken so far?
unidentified		I'd say his best thing was the border.
		But everything else was worse.
		All he's doing is playing chicken with the Constitution to see if it breaks and how far he could go.
		I believe that Trump is the best con man there is because by him knocking out everybody else and putting in his puppets, that puts him in control.
		But America's getting ready to sink because of him.
		I'll be glad when they get rid of him.
		So I believe that his worst thing is everything that he's doing now with the government, pushing the screens in the limits.
		They say that he's not prejudiced, but his actions show different.
		When you're looking at one set of people and not looking at the rest of the people, then that makes his actions questionable.
		But he's not that much of a bad person, but his actions, he hasn't a thought of his own, I believe.
		That's my thought.
		He's using everybody else as guinea pigs to boost up his own self.
		And people getting caught up in that.
		And all that money that he said that he found, all that money that he's been getting, what are they doing for the people?
		So I don't see nothing that the people ain't getting no money, but he's saying he's getting all this money, but nobody's seeing this money.
		So where are they going to?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Anthony is in New York on our line for Republicans.
		Good morning, Anthony.
		Make sure the volume is down on your TV and then go ahead.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		Trump's worst thing is separating everybody from each other, the Republicans and the Democrats.
		He's brainwashing the people to separate from each other, to fight each other instead of bringing everybody together.
		That's his worst thing.
		The best thing he did was the borders.
		And you're going to find out if the Democrats spoke about that, they would have a chance to bring to win the elections again.
		But they don't speak about the borders.
		As long as you keep everybody straight, but tear this apart.
		That's what I have to say.
		Thank you.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Robert is in Diamond Bar, California on our line for independence.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Robert.
unidentified		Good morning.
		So I think in terms of the best things that Trump has done so far in his second term, I'd say the number one thing really is exercising restraint with Israel and Palestine.
		You know, you're talking about in 2024, there were a lot of people on both sides calling for direct military action.
		I think that Trump stepping in and saying, okay, we need a bilateral sort of play here, even possibly considering, you know, Ukraine and Russia.
		That's another great example of this.
		That's to where he exercised great restraint.
		The other big thing I think that Trump did, that's a major plus, is bringing in tech leaders into the fold.
		So you're talking Tim Cook at Apple, Elon Musk with Tesla, and then Sam Ullman with OpenAI, really inviting the tech founders into the fold of American government.
		That's a huge plus.
		When it comes to the major minus here, I think it's really a lack of focus.
		You know, when it comes down to everyday Americans and their grocery bills, I think that Trump needs to look more towards getting those prices down and really focusing on inflation.
		That's been a persistent problem that has really gone on since the start of his administration.
		But I think that once he focuses on that, and whether it's through the Federal Reserve or another way, I think that's what really matters here.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Next up is Mike in Ruston, Virginia, on our line for Democrats.
		Good morning, Mike.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I don't know why C-SPAN asked this question.
		He has no best.
		The guy threatened universities.
		He threatened law firms.
		He threatens people who are not loyal to him.
		He weaponized the Justice Department.
		Come, Comey is a principled person.
		A few people remember the scene when he called them from the corner because Comey knew this guy is a crook and he wanted to manipulate the FBI.
		Remember, Comey in 2004 threatened to resign because George Bush wanted to do the Domestic Surveillance Act.
		He's only guilty of not being loyal to Trump.
		He threatened Session, the first senators to endorse his election in 2016 because he would not obey him.
		Biden did not weaponize the Justice Department.
		If you remember, Garland did not go after Trump for two and a half years, and even Democrats call him a coward.
		He prosecuted Biden's son.
		He was found guilty.
		But Trump taught everything he does.
		Look at January 6th.
		He led an overthrow of our government.
		He discredited all our institutions.
		I don't see anything he did good for this country.
		For the person who said tariff is good, tariff is paid by American consumers on everything, and all the prices are going up.
		I thought he was going to reduce prices on the first day.
		As for the guy who said we are constitutional republic, not democracy, reality, there is not much different.
		We still have elect representatives who go to Washington and they still have to follow people most of the time what people voted for.
		So I don't know.
		They don't understand anything.
		They are loyal to one person, not our constitution, not our government.
		And people are scared to talk anymore because of him.
		God help us all if this is continued.
		I hope somebody stands up to him and impeach this administration and this incompetent cabinet.
		The whole thing is, it's a mess.
		Thank you.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Sophia is in Manhattan, New York on our line for independence.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Sophia.
unidentified		Yes, good morning, Kimberly.
		I am so excited and happy.
		All the callers, I voted for Mr. Trump in 2016.
		Until today, I can't forgive myself, you know?
		But this is what it is.
		But I am so proud of the majority of people.
		They calling and they saying the truth.
		The only one was Gredao, when Greta was here two days ago, a guy from Hawaii, he says, 40 years he lives, he's a farmer.
		He called him, they called him Trump.
		It is Mr. Trump, he said.
		I never called him.
		No, he said, it's President Trump.
		I never called him President Trump.
		I always called him Mr. Trump.
		But you know what?
		This is what it is.
		But everybody's getting it.
		I am so happy, Kimberly, you're doing a great job.
		I hope you work.
		God forgive me.
		I know Mimi has a seniority over you, over Tommy.
		I wish they gave you Saturday and Sunday and put Tommy.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Is there a particular action that the president has taken, though, that you think would either you'd consider it his best or worst so far in this term?
unidentified		You know what, Kimberly?
		I have not seen nothing.
		He was a street smart.
		That's why I voted for him.
		I knew what I was going through.
		He is just working for himself.
		He did not even finish high school.
		It was his sister, the one who was a judge that died a year ago, that used to do his whole 12th grade.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Let's hear from Herman in Dallas, Texas on our line for Democrats.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Herman.
unidentified		Good morning, Kimberly.
		I think you're my lucky charm because this is the second time I called when you were on and I was able to get in.
		But, hey, I'm irritated so much by these people talking about immigration as this great thing that they bargained for and they voted for him because it would be a good thing if he lived forever.
		But he's not going to live forever or if he was in office forever.
		As soon as he gets out of office, they're all going to pack up their bags.
		They come straight to our border again.
		We need laws, not executive orders.
		And so, but what does he do worse or what does he do best?
		Everything he does to me is worse.
		I'm just holding my breath until he's out of the office.
		Thank you.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Carrie is in Maryland on our line for Democrats.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Carrie.
unidentified		Yes, good morning, everyone.
		I just want to say this.
		Everything just about he's done is worse.
		Worse.
justice neil gorsuch ▲ ● ▼		The worst thing he's ever done for me is he has divided this country and he has taught the children of this country to hate.
unidentified		He has brought to the forefront.
		This is how you hate.
		They go to these colleges and you can't indoctrinate a young mind.
		And I don't understand being close to 90 years old.
		I don't understand how these parents, all you hear is tariff, money, money, money.
		You need to be worried about your children.
		They can't read.
		They can't write.
		They have religion is nowhere on the forefront.
		He has torn this country apart.
		I haven't seen anything he's done.
		They worry about the border.
		They didn't worry about the border when they brought the different cultures over here to do their picking letters, babysitting their kids.
		And back in the 70s, the senators and congressmen had them locked up in the basements to babysit their babies.
		People need to read the Constitution.
		As I said before, they run around on religious.
		If they're religious, why are they sending people home without jobs, shutting down government buildings?
		But my worst thing is they're teaching your children how to hate.
		And if you think they're making this world better for you, you're wrong.
		Because your children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren will grow up into a hateful world no matter what color you are.
		And I've never seen a brinkstruck behind a funeral, and I've never seen a coffin line with money.
		So he may have all of that, but this country needs to go back to the way it was founded on religion, individual rights, and for the salvation of the Constitution.
		You guys have a great day, and hopefully I make it to be 90 years old.
		This country, it'll take a long time for it to get back together.
		But my last words will say, the worst thing he has done is to teach your children how to hate.
		Have a great day, and God bless all of you.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Annette is in Alexander City, Alabama, on our line for Republicans.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Annette.
unidentified		Good morning, Kimberly.
		You're just wonderful.
		I mean, you just know how to handle people.
		But I want to say the best thing Trump ever did was to get elected.
		It's amazing how people forget we were on a wrong path and we were going to go off the rails.
		And he has a lot to fix.
		And yes, he did say, oh, I'll fix it on day one.
		Well, when you have four years of inflation and open borders, don't hold them to that.
		And I just don't understand all the hate.
		How can they say Trump is teaching people to hate?
		All you have to do is watch left-wing cable or politicians on the other side.
		They have called him every name imaginable, except Mr. President.
		And I think that's sad.
		And that does look bad on our children growing up because that teaches them no respect.
		He is supposed to be the world's leader of the free world, but they don't treat him as such.
		But anyway, like I said, I was so glad to see you as the host today because I really admire you.
		And thanks for taking my call.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Well, thanks for calling in and thanks to everyone who called in this hour.
		Coming up later in the show on Washington Journal, we're going to talk about the government, potential government shutdown that could be coming in a few short days.
		Laura Blessing, a senior fellow at Georgetown University's Government Affairs Institute, will give us a one-on-one on what that means.
		But first, after the break, we'll take a deep dive into the Trump administration's new restrictions to H-1B visas for skilled foreign workers.
		That conversation is going to be with Muzaffir Christie of the Migration Policy Institute.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We're having a technical problem with Washington Journal.
dasha burns ▲ ● ▼		I'm Josha Burns, host of Ceasefire, Bridging the Divide in American Politics.
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		Washington Journal continues.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back.
		We're joined now by Muzaffir Christie of the Migration Policy Institute to discuss some moves that President Trump has been making regarding H-1B visas as well as other immigration changes.
		Welcome to Washington Journal.
muzaffar chishti ▲ ● ▼		Thanks so much for having me.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So first of all, can you remind viewers what the Migration Policy Institute is, its mission, and how you're funded?
muzaffar chishti ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Migration Policy Institute is a DC-based think tank, and we also have an office in Brussels, which follows European immigration policies.
		It is a non-partisan think tank.
		We are driven by data and factual analysis.
		And we have received support mostly from foundations, individual donors, and we have been around for close to 25 years.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		President Trump has imposed a new $100,000 fee on H-1B visas in new immigration action.
		Can you talk a little bit about this particular type of visa?
		Who's it for?
		Who uses it?
muzaffar chishti ▲ ● ▼		So H-1B visa, for lack of any other definition, is for high-skilled workers.
		It's technically in our statute called people who are coming to perform in specialty occupation.
		But it basically means that it has to be an occupation for which you at least need a bachelor's degree to perform.
		That means you could not do that job if you hadn't gone to college and received a bachelor's degree.
		It is used principally for people in computer occupations.
		About two-thirds of people who are here on H-1 visas are in either software or hardware, part of the computer industry.
		It's used extensively by people in finance.
		It's used extensively by people in medical professions and by universities and colleges.
		So it's a spectrum of occupations, but it's gotten to be heavily used for what we call STEM occupations, which is science, technology, engineering, and math.
		And many of these H-1B holders are people who come here as students and they graduate and then they move from being a student to an H-1B visa, which then can transition to a green card.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Which industries, particularly, or you just mentioned a lot of science jobs and computer science jobs, this is obviously showing up in the tech sector.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Are there particular companies that are known for using these?
muzaffar chishti ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, all the Silicon Valley companies are big users of it.
		Microsoft, Intel, Meta, those kind of companies have used it historically, but there are also many others like architects and landscapers.
		A lot of people in the universities are big sort of users of H-1B.
		So it's a spectrum, but with a significant preponderance of it in the IT industry.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Where do most of the workers coming in on H-1B visas come from?
muzaffar chishti ▲ ● ▼		So it's true that you can be an H-1B worker, you can be coming from any part of the world, but it has become dominant users of it are nationals of India and China, which is two of the largest contributors, which has also caused a bit of controversy about it because of its concentration.
		It has also created more backlogs for Indian and Chinese nationals to move from H-1B to green card because your ability to move into a green card is determined by your country of origin.
		We sort of divide our green card on nationality basis.
		So if you have a lot of Indians and national, then it takes you much longer to move from an H-1B status to green cards, which itself is a bit of anxiety for a lot of such nationals.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		You mentioned that this program has been controversial.
		There's a story here in the Wall Street Journal that senators want answers from big tech on H-1B workers and layoffs, that letters have been sent to Amazon, Apple, and other big companies from top lawmakers on the Judiciary Committee with heightened scrutiny from Capitol Hill over these companies' use of H-1B visas, with lawmakers raising concerns about layoffs and slumping job prospects for Americans.
		On Wednesday evening, Judiciary Chairman, Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley, and Ranking Member Dick Durbin sent letters to the country's largest users of H-1B visas, including Amazon, Apple, and JPMorgan Chase, asking them to explain why they continue to hire thousands of H-1B visa holders while also cutting jobs.
		What role do companies play in this visa process, and to what extent are these workers competing with American workers for jobs?
muzaffar chishti ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, to all companies, it's completely driven by the demand and the usage by companies.
		A worker himself or herself cannot apply for an H-1B visa.
		An employer, typically a company, has to sponsor him.
		So the petitioners in each of the applications of H-1B has to be a company, whether it's JPMorgan, whether it's big Intel or Microsoft or other companies in the Silicon Valley.
		If they petition, they are telling the government, we actually would like to hire this foreign national because we have tried to get U.S. workers to fill these jobs and we don't have enough workers coming in to fill the jobs.
		So therefore, it's a position that needs to be filled in.
		And therefore, in the absence of U.S. workers, we would like to get the foreign worker to come in.
		The controversy about this has been there for a long time.
		And I think on this, there has been some bipartisan consensus.
		You mentioned both Senator Grassley and Durbin.
		These two senators especially have expressed concern about the usage of H-1B workers for a very long time.
		And their general argument is that people are not paying enough to U.S. workers for them to be encouraged to apply and to be recruited.
		And once they don't pay them enough, that creates a job for foreign workers.
		I think there is some truth in some sections of our economy that workers may be getting not the fair share of a wage that the market would demand.
		I think that's fair criticism.
		And those abuses, I think, should be looked at and taken seriously.
		But just because there's an abuse in some section of the industry doesn't mean we have to abandon the program.
		It's like we like to say that you don't throw the baby with the bathwater.
		And that's sort of occasionally, I think, the tendency is just because there are some examples of companies abusing it, therefore the whole program should be in question.
		And I think that's a fair question.
		That's a fair inquiry.
		But let's sort of address the question where the problem is and not attack the entire program and throw it out.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		PU Research has some data on H-1B visas showing a surge in approvals since 2000, which is something that President Trump has complained about and argued that companies are exploiting the program.
		He was in the Oval Office with Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick and talking about these new annual fees for skilled workers.
		Let's listen.
howard lutnick ▲ ● ▼		The company needs to decide: do they want the person valuable enough to have a $100,000 a year payment to the government, or they should head home and they should go hire an American?
		The whole idea, it's annual and it's for total.
		It can be a total of six years.
		So $100,000 a year.
		So either the person is very valuable to the company and America, or they're going to depart and the company's going to hire an American.
		And that's the point of immigration.
		Hire Americans and make sure the people coming in are the top, top people.
		Stop the nonsense of letting people just come into this country on these visas that were given away for free.
		President is crystal clear, valuable people only for America.
		Stop the nuts.
unidentified		And remember, the country is just a fee, right?
howard lutnick ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
howard lutnick ▲ ● ▼		To America.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		The country would rather not have to pay $100,000.
		But they'd rather, how do you do that?
		You hire Americans.
		So there's an incentive to hire American.
		But there may be instances where it's better off doing through expertise or whatever it may be.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that this policy is going to work and achieve the president's goals with this $100,000 price tag on these visas?
muzaffar chishti ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, what the president said towards the end is, I think, exactly true, is that we all should agree that these jobs should first go to U.S. nationals.
		If there are qualified U.S. nationals to perform these jobs, there should be no reliance on foreign workers.
		I think we are in agreement.
		And I think, as the president also said, but there are instances where we do need the expertise, which we don't have in U.S. workers, which only foreign nationals, many of them trained in U.S. universities, provide.
		So it should be an avenue to be able to do that, not to be able to provide an easy way for U.S. companies to underpay U.S. workers.
		So that's why I think the insistence that we should really look critically at whether U.S. workers are available and what expertise foreign workers bring is true.
		So the issue about the 100,000 is that it was done extremely in unartful language through a proclamation last week.
		And it was announced in a very chaotic manner.
		So that all your viewers know over the weekend, the proclamation issued by the White House said that every H-1B worker who wants to enter now will have to, the company will have to pay $100,000.
		And that created tremendous confusion all over the world.
		So people, like many Silicon Valley companies, warned all their H-1B holders anywhere in the world that they better come back to the U.S. by the end of the weekend because they were concerned that the new 100,000 requirement would apply to them.
		Now, you can imagine people stuck in all parts of the world.
		Scrambling to get back.
		And that was because it was inelegantly written whether this new policy would apply to existing workers or only to new petitions.
		So the lack of clarity created the confusion.
		By now, I think the administration has luckily made it clear that this proposal does not apply to existing H-1B workers.
		That's a huge relief to people who are in that category today.
		It only applies to companies who are sponsoring a new H-1B worker.
		And even an existing worker who is seeking a renewal or even a change of employer from one to the other, this proposal of 100,000 doesn't apply.
		So it is a proposal that will go into effect, as I said, for new workers.
		And given how our H-1B demand of workers is, therefore, unlikely to go into effect till next April, when we start issuing a new set of H-1Bs, a complicated phenomenon why that happens in April.
		So I think what would happen is that if it goes into effect, and it's legally challenged and probably will be met with injunction, but let's assume it finally will be approved.
		It's therefore going to make it more possible for richer companies and high-yield companies to sponsor people at the expense of smaller companies, which won't be able to afford 100,000.
		So in many ways, for large multinationals, this may land up being a boom.
		But on the other hand, small companies which depend on entrepreneurs, which depend on people who are here because of their strong enterprise and innovative powers, this may provide a damper.
		So that's the plus and minus here.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		If you all in the audience have questions for Muzaffir Christie, a senior fellow at the Migration Policy Institute, our phone line for Democrats is 202-748-8000.
		For Republicans, 202-748-8001.
		And for Independents, 202-748-8002.
		Before we get to calls, though, I do want to ask you about other kinds of work-based immigration.
		You know, for months, the administration has teased a solution for handling the crisis, really, in the farm worker-ish industry in terms of immigrant farm workers.
		Can you remind us of the debate around this and what the administration is talking about doing?
muzaffar chishti ▲ ● ▼		So farm worker is the other end of the spectrum of foreign nationals who enter through our immigration stream.
		The farm workers is specifically meant to let in people who are working in the agriculture-related sectors.
		And there actually is no numerical limitation on how many farm workers can come, as long as employers are willing to sponsor and live by the restrictions on them.
		What the controversy has been is that because of the very strong, robust immigration enforcement policies of this administration, many of the workers in the agriculture sector have recently seen themselves being subject to arrests and deportations.
		And that's just because there's a lot of unauthorized migrants who work in the agriculture industry.
		And that has led then many agriculturists to say that they're losing their very critical supply of foreign workers.
		And the president seemed quite receptive to that kind of concern and has said at least two or three times that maybe we should have a special policy of restraint towards raids on farms.
		But he says that, but the policy doesn't respond to that.
		So his own statements don't match with the policies of the DHS.
		And I think that has sort of created discordance both among employers and workers in the agriculture sector.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		We've been talking about these employment-based immigration programs, but are there other kinds of programs that might resolve some of these issues?
		I know one of the reports that you've put out at the Migration Policy Institute says a new way forward for employment-based immigration, the bridge visa.
		What is this idea?
muzaffar chishti ▲ ● ▼		So I'm glad you brought out our proposal.
		Yes, it's an original MPI idea.
		I mean, what we just seen both in the agriculture and in the high-end H-1B worker phenomenon is that we don't have a rational policy for selecting people.
		Right now, we have H-1A is for agriculture workers, H-1B is for high-skilled workers, H-2B is for people who are coming in low-skilled occupations, but only for short periods of time, people coming for exchange visits on JWA.
		So there's an alphabet soup in many ways of the various visa programs under which you let people in.
		And I think the alphabet soup has really created a lot of confusion, is that we believe that we should simplify it, that if employers wanted to bring in foreign workers, they should be able to bring it in an efficient and in a kind of a smooth way.
		So the way would be that if first you have to make sure that for every job that you have, that the first crack at the job should go to a U.S. worker.
		I think we should all agree on that.
		So there should be an easy, streamlined way of testing the U.S. labor market.
		We don't have one right now.
		It's a broken, frequently misused system to do that.
		And once you have convinced the government that no U.S. workers are available to do the job, then we should allow people in to come on what we call the bridge visa, which is sort of bridge between temporary and permanent.
		Because right now you can be a temporary worker for 10 years.
		That doesn't make any sense.
		So we bridge temporary and permanent and we bridge spectrum of occupations.
		That we don't have to have this one small stream just for high-skilled people, another stream for low-skilled people.
		We think that we should bridge occupations and bridge temporary and permanent status.
		And people should be allowed to be in that status for up to six years.
		And if they don't want to live in the, continue to live in the, they should be able to go back to their countries of origin and come later on another bridge visa, which I think improves and increases circularity of migration, which I think is the reality of the life of most workers today.
		They don't want to come here and necessarily live here for the rest of their lives.
		They want to be able to work lawfully and contribute to the U.S. economy and to their lives.
		And the present system doesn't allow that.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		We're ready to take your questions for Muzaffir Christie, who's a senior fellow at the Migration Policy Institute.
		We'll start with Mike in Montgomery, Alabama on our line for independence.
		Good morning, Mike.
unidentified		Hey, good morning.
		So most organizations report positive experiences with high-skilled workers on H-1B visas.
		And I wanted to ask your guests in regard to the legislation that was enacted and passed by Congress last year, the Workers' Innovation Opportunity Act, which dovetails with the Immigration and Nationality Act, where a lot of businesses believe that these two acts make the United States competitive, but they should be streamlined, as your guests mentioned.
		But it also, most importantly, addresses the shortage of workers, namely software programmers, engineers, and medical professionals.
		But it certainly needs to be secure because the system is broken and it's unpredictable and it's unpredictable, I'm sorry, and uncertain.
		So I wanted an update from your guest, Kimberly, on where we stand with WIA, the Workers' Innovation Opportunity Act, and the Immigration and Nationality Act as it dovetails into the subject this morning.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		I appreciate it.
muzaffar chishti ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for the question.
		I mean, I think the caller really summarized, I think, the position extremely well.
		I think there is, excuse me, there's a lot of consensus that the foreign workers that we take through these various foreign worker programs are hugely contributing to the U.S. economy.
		And they're contributing to innovation, which is the hallmark of America.
		I mean, our country was built as a startup country.
		Let's not forget that.
		That's sort of in our DNA.
		And these foreign worker programs essentially allow new people who want to bring their skill, they're hungry to use their expertise in the country, and the companies need them.
		It is that we have not revised our immigration selection system for 35 years.
		I mean, the last time Congress actually passed, I mean, your call is that we have a various pieces of legislation go through various sort of parts of the journey of actual passage.
		The last time Congress actually passed an immigration comprehensive bill was in 1990.
		Just imagine how much has happened in the world since then.
		We allow only 65,000 people to come on H1B visas, 20 additional thousand if they have been, if they have had a master's degree from a U.S. university.
		And since 1990, we have had what?
		We have had 9-11.
		We had had the Y2K.
		We had the 2008 recession.
		We had had the COVID crisis.
		And we haven't changed our immigration system.
		And it's sort of like saying we change our interest rates every quarter.
		But we don't change our immigration numbers for 35 years.
		That doesn't make sense to anyone, whether a Trump supporter or a Biden supporter.
		So that needs to be fixed.
		And it's unfortunate that our Congress has gotten parallaxed on the issue of immigration.
		It is now seen completely as a polarizing issue.
		So even smart policies like the one that your colleague just mentioned are just not happening.
		And that needs to finally change.
		And I think one of the reasons why people think Congress is reluctant to do anything, because there has been a crisis at the border, that people argue that as long as there's crisis at the border, we can't do anything else on immigration.
		And maybe this is one of the positive things about the record of this administration, other since we have gotten the border under control, it may be the time that Congress has to move on on other aspects of immigration and then have the various reform legislation, including the one that your caller mentioned, that would let people come in in a more streamlined, orderly way.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Larry is in Boston, Massachusetts, and online for Republicans.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Larry.
unidentified		Yes, thank you for taking my call.
		Regarding these programs, I'm out in the field doing direct mental services with families.
		And for the life of me, I don't understand why we know, according to the Department of Labor, we don't have a shortage in any field.
		Why don't we start to cultivate and groom our own kids, our own students, to take those slots whereby that money stays here and we can start to employ our own people?
		I don't know why we're going to cultivate and groom our own people instead of these H-1B visa programs.
		We know we're going to need computer analysts or what we might need.
		Why don't we start to cultivate and groom our own people?
		That's my question.
		Yeah, I mean, that's a fair question.
muzaffar chishti ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I will say it again and boldly is that we should give U.S. workers the first chance of any job in the United States.
		That's true for low-skilled workers.
		That's true for high school workers.
		It is just that we just do not have enough supply of U.S. workers to address the economic needs and labor market needs of our country.
		That's just simple demography.
		We're an aging society, and in which, therefore, the nature-born population is not producing enough workers.
		Listen, we have baby boomers who are trying to get 10,000 a day.
		And that's through all occupations.
		That whole cohort of baby boomers was a big event, demographic event in our country.
		They're all retiring, and we don't have enough native-born population to meet the labor market need.
		Second, is if we don't, there's a mismatch between the training and skills of U.S. workers and the needs of the economy.
		And that's sort of where the foreign workers fit in.
		They're not intended to be, should not be intended to be the lasting solution of our problem.
		These are where we have gaps.
		That's where the foreign workers should meet.
		And I think your caller is absolutely right.
		At the same time, immigration cannot solve all our problems.
		We have to have a good labor market policy which trains people for the jobs that we need.
		And that's why I think it's important not for the companies that are dependent on foreign workers to also have robust training programs for U.S. workers.
		This is particularly true in STEM occupations.
		It's particularly true in areas where we have now today become reliant on foreign workers.
		Like we had nurses, you know, shortage of nurses many years ago.
		And finally, U.S. hospitals decided they would train nurses and they would pay them well.
		And once they did that, we no longer had the same reliance on nurses as we used to have a few years ago.
		So there are solutions to this.
		They don't all have to be met by an immigration reform.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Carl is in Houston, Texas, on our line for Democrats.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Carl.
unidentified		Good morning.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Just make sure the volume on your TV is turned down, Carl, and then please continue with your question.
unidentified		Yes.
		Give me one second.
		Gee, I somewhat think, I somewhat think this whole policy is a red hair.
		I mean, because for one, America, you know, we're supposed to be the brightest in the world.
		And you have a lot of people going to school for these in these fields and technology fields, but yet they're going to school and they're paying hundreds of thousands of dollars and then come out and can't get a job.
		But yet you have all of these people coming in here from Andy and all of us getting these jobs.
		I don't believe they're going to charge them the hundred thousand dollars.
		I think it's just, I think it's a red hair and they're going to find a way to get these N1 visa people in here.
		And these people that like right now, they're asking for cyber security people.
		But why, when, why should Americans believe that this policy is for them when they continuously give these jobs to people from India and things of that nature?
		That's my question.
		Why should we believe that this policy is legit?
		Thank you.
muzaffar chishti ▲ ● ▼		Well, we will see whether the policy will even be allowed to go into effect.
		As I said, the policy, first of all, has not been fully announced and when it's because they retreated from a good section of the policy very early on.
		So the final words of it are not written as yet.
		When they are written, I'm absolutely sure they will be subject to litigation.
		And I think courts will basically express a lot of the same concerns that your colleges did.
		So we don't know the final word on this, but I think there is sentiment that the present system needs some reform, that it's just not working either for the workers or for the U.S. companies or for U.S. workers who believe they may be losing their jobs.
		So a reform of this system is called for, and it has been called for for 35 years.
		So just also to put it in perspective, only 65 basic H-1B workers and 20,000 additional workers are allowed in under the process.
		So it's not a big stream of workers.
		It's a very small component of our labor market.
		So I don't think people should get concerned that we are flooding our labor market with foreign-born workers.
		It's a very small stream, mostly to meet the demand in sectors of the economy where we don't have U.S. workers.
		But it still needs to be reformed, both in terms of how we screen people, both in terms of how we select people, and both in terms of how we transition people from their H-1Bs to permanent residents.
		Because if we bring people in, we should make them permanent members of our society so that they get integrated and we get the full advantage of their lives.
		And I think right now, your call is right, there's uncertainty about these programs, and certainty both for employers and for workers, and that doesn't help even the integration process.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Next up is Darrell in Garfield, Washington on our line for Republicans.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Daryl.
unidentified		Yeah, hi.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		My question would be: at what point would an expanding company just expand in a foreign country rather than pay $100,000 per employee for six years?
		It seems to me that that could motivate a company to expand their business into another country rather than expanding in the United States.
muzaffar chishti ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's an extremely fair point.
		And I think he's almost written one important chapter of the brief that people who will fight this proposal will bring into the courts is that this will create, it has two potential impacts larger for the society.
		One is that what our colleague just said is that it just then creates incentive for employers instead of bringing in foreign workers to just export the jobs.
		And they may then export to countries which they don't pay as well.
		So that doesn't help the competitive picture for U.S. workers.
		The second is, which many people have pointed out, is that if we don't take highly skilled, qualified workers in these, then other countries will take them.
		China has essentially signaled, even after the proclamation was issued last week, that they would welcome these workers who would normally come to the U.S. to come to China.
		Many European countries will do the same.
		So it does affect our competitive advantage.
		And that should be taken into account when people think about the long-term impact of these policies.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Charles is in Camden, New Jersey on our line for Democrats.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Charles.
unidentified		Good morning.
		What I'm going to say, and don't compare to me.
		I'm 87 years old.
		If you want people to work on jobs, you should, the people who've been in and out of jail, freak a record.
		And you will find out in two years we will have more Social Security than you ever see.
		Let them go to work.
		They want to work.
		Thank you.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Charles raises an interesting point about formerly incarcerated.
muzaffar chishti ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, this is why this debate is very interesting.
		It's not just all about immigration.
		I mean, immigration is an entry point to this debate for us as people who are concerned about our country in general.
		Is that this raises all other kinds of issues?
		Why aren't we letting people who have been incarcerated come out and be productive members of our society?
		It's a really good question.
		Immigration can't solve that.
		Why can't we just train more people who are not necessarily going to college, but train them in technical jobs, which do not require a bachelor's degree but can be done very well in community colleges or in just organizations that provide credentials for various skilled occupations.
		Those are very important employment-based policies of our country.
		Immigration cannot solve those big global issues in our society, but they do raise them in the way that your colleague just raised.
		And we all, as informed citizens of the country, should be raising those issues.
		If we just confine it to the immigration issue, this will be a band-aid.
		We need societal solutions to the problem in which immigration is only one component of it, but we need to have a policy writ large which addresses all labor market policies or challenges of our country.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Richard is in Rockland, California on our line for Republicans.
unidentified		Good morning, Richard.
		Thank you.
		Yeah, I was calling in.
		You had a previous segment about Donald Trump, his good points or bad points, and then everybody's calling him a dictator.
		But he's a dictator because Congress is broken.
		They won't address the immigration issue or pass any meaningful legislation to get this all fixed up.
		So Trump, being the president, has to go ahead and make these decisions.
		I think Congress has given him that authority to do that.
		Thing that I have is that I'm in California and I'm paying like $6,700 a year for taxes.
		I think we got the best schools that money can buy.
		I think we got the best teachers' union that money can buy.
		And we ought to start demanding some results for educating our kids since we're way down at the bottom compared to most other countries.
		So what's the guest's opinion on all this to get this thing corrected?
muzaffar chishti ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it goes to the earlier segment of your show, so I will not say much about that except to agree on two things.
		Congress is broken, and Congress, actually, on many issues, has been broken for a long time.
		I won't opine on other issues.
		That's not my expertise on immigration.
		It is clearly broken and has been broken for a very long time.
		In fact, most of us would agree that the reason we are in this difficult position on the relevance of immigration in our country's politics and society is because Congress has not taken the responsibility of doing what it should be doing.
		And that's because this issue particularly has become so polarized.
unidentified		And Congress needs to act.
muzaffar chishti ▲ ● ▼		And we know that this is just not just, it's a bipartisan sport.
		Both Democrats and Republicans play politics on immigration.
		What is promising about President Trump on this issue is that since his record on immigration in bringing it into control is so good, since he has been, using his own words, brought the invasion under control, he is the one to send the message to Congress.
		Now it is time for you to move to the second stage.
		Is that we got the border under control for you.
		Now you do your job.
		And once they get he is in a much better position to send a signal than many recent presidents have been.
		So here, actually, his leadership may be extremely important, may actually be extremely effective.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Ron is in Caucasus, Maryland, on our line for independence.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Ron.
unidentified		Oh, thank you.
		Thank you for getting me in.
		All right, everyone.
		Listen very closely.
		So just let you know, I'm a CEO of hospitals here in the country, okay, different states or whatnot.
		I did some research on your speaker there, but I would like for him to let everyone know who funds the number one.
		And while you're thinking about responding to that question, I want the country to understand that they're predicting within three to five years, AI is going to pretty much consume and take over between 90 to 95 percent of all of our jobs.
		All right, so just think about that.
		Another thing is, I'm really concerned because here we are having a discussion as far as bringing in more H1B visas, right?
		But we're not having a discussion on how we can get our citizens in other countries, such as China or Russia, to work.
		So this is very selfish by your speaker.
		Right now, we have millions of Americans losing jobs, and here he is trying to promote bringing in people to take more people to take our job.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So John, if you don't mind, I'm seeing quite a few reports of studies saying that 90% of jobs will be affected by AI, but not taken by AI.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Where were you finding that?
unidentified		Correct.
		All right.
		The majority of the jobs in which AI will and is actually taking over as we speak are jobs, such as in IT, software engineering, which your guest mentioned.
		Even in healthcare, on my end, AI will be, in fact, we're using it right now.
		As the CEO, I'm concerned about my job.
		So just everyone, be careful.
		I want your speaker to respond: who funds the migration policy, okay?
		And how long has he been a U.S. citizen?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
muzaffar chishti ▲ ● ▼		Well, migration and policy insured, as is clear from our website, is a nonpartisan think tank.
		We are almost completely funded by private foundations.
		And that has been true since our founding in 2001.
		We get some individual donors, but that's our base of support, and we are quite transparent about it.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		And actually, I'll pause you there because on the Migration Policy Institute, it actually lists all the funders.
		If anybody wants to go and look it up, including the donors over the lifetime of the organization.
		But please continue, Musafir.
muzaffar chishti ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much, Fawr.
		And I've been a U.S. citizen since 1992.
		I became U.S. citizen literally the same day as President Clinton was inaugurated.
		A proud moment in my life.
		And, you know, we hope that every new citizen who becomes a citizen contributes something mightily to our country.
		We are a nation of immigrants, uniquely a nation of immigrants.
		And it's our commitment to immigration that has kept America the special place that it is.
		And we just cannot ignore that.
		But having said that, the points he raised are valid.
		Look, AI is such an extraordinary new thing to happen.
		It's not my expertise.
		I just am a consumer of it.
		To know that my job may be, you may not need me in a few years to appear on a show like this.
		An AI version of my might do a perfectly good job.
		Your callers may all be generated by AI.
		We all have to be mindful of the potential of AI.
		But that doesn't mean that we're going to be scared by it.
		Is that AI presents a challenge for all of us?
		We know that some jobs will no longer be required to be performed by human beings.
		But on the other hand, we know that that also creates more opportunities for human beings to be more innovative in the time they don't have to spend on what they would use, what they could use AI for.
		And many jobs still cannot be done by AI.
		I'm again to be no expert on this, just as a consumer.
		Things that require for us to touch and feel and hear, those are still jobs to be done by human beings.
		So there's a lot of churning going on in our country, in our world, in the labor market in general.
		We know will be as important an event as the Industrial Revolution.
		But we didn't get scared of the Industrial Revolution when it happened.
		I'm sure people are raising the same concern about jobs and displacement of people at the beginning of the 20th century that people are raising about AI today.
		Human beings are smart.
		Human beings are innovative.
		We in America are especially innovative.
		We will know and will be able to meet the challenge of AI and hopefully we come out better on the other end.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Charlie is in Roslyn, New York, on our line for Democrats.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Charlie.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I am wondering whether this whole new policy with $100,000 for six years is really just a sugar high, almost like that you get from eating a candy bar that's really going to have ultimately a contrary effect to what we need here.
		In other words, if you were to look at the other side of the seesaw, by keeping skilled and talented and intelligent workers away from the United States, which is what this policy does, we're really aiding our competitors like China, who will retain those people, like India, who will retain those people, like Canada, who may be,
		these countries might in fact be very happy about this.
		Oh, we're going to keep these people on our own soil and not export them to the U.S.
		And And by doing this, if you look at the long-term effect that the Trump administration is doing something contrary ultimately to the interests of the United States, do you think that's been considered by them?
muzaffar chishti ▲ ● ▼		No, I think your caller made exactly the right point.
		And I think I made the version of it probably less intelligently than he did a few minutes ago, that this does provide a possible competitive edge to our competitors in the world for high skill.
		And I think this administration, given that it knows a lot about corporate sector, should not be cognizant of it, is a little unusual.
		Therefore, we believe that, yeah, there may be some reason for political considerations to float this policy, but ultimately it could have a significant negative impact for the economy.
		And I think, as I said earlier, the more robust companies may be able to absorb the cost.
		It may have more effect on smaller companies and innovators and entrepreneurs and startups.
		And that's not a good thing for our country.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's all of the time that we have.
		Thank you very much.
		Muzaffir Christie is with the Migration Policy Institute, where he is a senior fellow.
		Thank you so much for your time this morning.
muzaffar chishti ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thanks so much for having me.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		And coming up after the break, your questions answered about a potential government shutdown, what's impacted, what wouldn't be, with Laura Blessing, a senior fellow at Georgetown University's Government Affairs Institute.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Book TV every Sunday on C-SPAN 2 features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books.
		Here's a look at what's coming up this weekend.
		At 7 p.m. Eastern, former independent West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin discusses his career, political polarization, and the importance of centrism.
		Then at 8 p.m. Eastern, Independent Institute senior fellow Philip Magnus presents his critique of the New York Times magazine's 1619 project, which told the story of the United States with a focus on slavery and its legacy.
		At 9 p.m. Eastern, a conversation about the influence of Karl Marx's work in America, a country Marx never visited with Illinois State University history professor Andrew Hartman.
		And at 10.15 p.m. Eastern, Stephen Grant on his memoir of his year working as a mailman for the U.S. Postal Service during the pandemic.
		Watch Book TV every Sunday on C-SPAN 2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org.
brian lamb ▲ ● ▼		In our last podcast, Ed Luce of the Financial Times told us about his book, Zbigniew Brzezinski, who he calls America's great power prophet.
		In this episode, we're going to feature a book notes interview from April 2nd, 1989 with Dr. Brzezinski.
		He was the first guest for the weekly Sunday evening program that ran till 2005, and that was for 16 years.
		His book at the time was about his long-time prediction that there would be a failure of communism in the Soviet Union.
		The name of Brzezinski's book was The Grand Failure.
unidentified		We revisit an interview with author Zbigniew Brzezinski about his book, The Grand Failure, The Birth and Death of Communism in the 20th Century on this episode of BookNotes Plus with our host Brian Lamb.
		BookNotes Plus is available wherever you get your podcasts and on the C-SPAN Now app.
		Washington Journal continues.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back.
		We are creeping closer to a potential government shutdown.
		So to get the details of that, I'm joined now by Laura Blessing, who is a senior fellow at Georgetown University's Government Affairs Institute.
		Welcome to Washington Journal.
unidentified		Good to be here.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		We are about three days out from the federal government running out of money.
		A government shutdown is looking like it might happen.
		How did we get here?
unidentified		Great question.
		Congress is disagreeing with itself again.
		It is not unusual to have problems with the appropriations process for passing a federal budget, but this process has gotten slammed to later in the year because of all the effort on the reconciliation bill.
		Very few bills have gotten worked on in more detail.
		And now we're coming up against the end of the fiscal year and the House has passed a clean continuing resolution, but the Senate has been unable to pass either that same bill or the Democrats' version.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		It feels like even though we're supposed to fund the government on an annual basis through the appropriations process, we've been running on these continuing resolutions for the first half of a year or so.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		For many years now, what is the impact of this sort of broken budgeting process on the way our government runs?
unidentified		Yeah, that's a really good question, because running a government on a continuing resolution means that you're unable to adapt to additional circumstances that require government action, that you're unable to update programs that might be updated.
		It makes things very difficult for a variety of different federal agencies also to not be able to plan that far ahead in the future.
		If, you know, it hasn't been unusual for us to run on a string of CRs for the first six months of the year for the past couple of years or so.
		And that's an additional level of dysfunction on a process that was not smooth to begin with.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		What actually happens when we hit that limit and they say we're going to have a shutdown?
unidentified		Yeah, so the discretionary funding that the Appropriations Committee are funding are 12 different bills, and that's about a little over a quarter of all federal spending.
		So there are government programs and services that are completely unaffected.
		So you'll get your Social Security check, Medicaid, Medicare will not be affected, those sort of entitlement programs that are not funded on a yearly basis by the decisions of the appropriations committees and then all of Congress.
		That being said, shutdowns are never good.
		They're painful.
		And there are a variety of different services that federal employees will be furloughed and services that won't be available or will experience delays that will hurt American citizens.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		And particularly federal workers feel these impacts quite a bit.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		What happens to them in terms of their pay?
unidentified		These furloughed employees, and in the past, for full shutdowns like what we'd be experiencing here, you've seen somewhere around the range of 700,000 to 800,000 federal employees be furloughed.
		And what that means is that they can't report to work and they get paid retroactively, but they don't get paid currently.
		So right now, I have friends who have federal employees and they're having conversations with their bosses doing paperwork to figure out how they're going to get paid afterwards.
		They're also having conversations with their families about how they're going to be able to weather a delay in getting their paychecks.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		We are going to be taking your questions about federal government shutdowns for Laura Blessing of the Government Affairs Institute.
		Our phone line for Democrats is 202-748-8000.
		For Republicans, 202-748-8001.
		For Independents, 202-748-8002.
		And we have a special line for federal workers, especially those of you worried about the impacts of that government shutdown, 202748-8003.
		Now, the Office of Management and Budget is requesting updated reduction in force plans.
		You were just referencing some of these plans that are underway for getting ready for a shutdown.
unidentified		Could federal workers also face permanent job losses?
		That's entirely possible.
		I mean, the what exactly will happen with those threats is uncertain at this time because they've just, we've seen the memo from OMB was reported last Wednesday by Politico.
		And the wording of it, I have it with me if you want me to read from it, is fairly general.
		So, you know, they're looking for- Let me give a bit of context for folks.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		This is, yes, it was originally reported by Politico.
		This is a story in government executive.
		Agencies should prep for mass layoffs if a shutdown occurs, the White House says.
		The OMB is requesting updated reduction in force plans, even if a shutdown is averted, and that federal agencies should implement mass layoffs of their workforces if the government shuts down next week, the White House told agencies on Wednesday, dramatically escalating the stakes of a potential funding lapse.
		Agencies should prepare the reduction in force notices for all employees whose work is not funded through means other than annual appropriations and does not align with President Trump's priorities, the Office of Management and Budget said in a memorandum.
		Agencies will also prepare the standard furlough notices that go out to employees not otherwise exempted to work during the shutdown.
		The OMB said, and those actions will have no bearing on who is subject to layoffs.
unidentified		Can you give a bit more context of what's going on here?
		Well, this is a negotiating tactic that the Trump administration is using, but it also looks like one that they're actively hoping to be able to use this as pretext for additional firings, which they've done through DOE.
		They've done in a variety of different ways.
		And, you know, as you just read the qualifications that OMB has directed agencies to start pursuing this, that's pretty broad.
		You know, that potentially could include a lot of different plans that are being promoted from these different agencies that are very much on board with President Trump's vision for the United States.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		What about the other parts of government?
		We've talked a lot about how various executive agencies might be affected by a shutdown, but what about Congress and the White House itself, the courts?
		What happens there?
unidentified		Yeah, absolutely.
		So members of Congress get paid.
		Their staffs do not.
		So they'll take it on the chin.
		And in terms of looking at what shuts down during a shutdown, there are a number of different parts of government that sometimes have their own financing mechanisms, and courts are absolutely on that list, right?
		So they have a variety of different fees so that some courts will continue to function as long as it's a relatively short shutdown.
		That being said, what's happened in the past is that immigration hearings in particular have been canceled and postponed en masse.
		So different courts are different, but a lot of courts have the ability to fund themselves for short periods of time.
		We're talking maybe a week or two if past is prologue.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Now, speaking of the past, we have a chart here looking at some of the previous government shutdowns and the length of them.
		There was a shutdown under President Bush in 1990 that lasted three days, a five-day shutdown in 95 under President Clinton, another 21-day shutdown from 1995, tail end of that year, into early 1996, also under Clinton.
		2013 under Obama, a 16-day shutdown.
		2018, a three-day shutdown under President Trump.
		And many folks will remember the 35-day shutdown between 2018 and 2019 under President Trump.
		That is quite a litany of these shutdowns.
		And I wonder what you think is the reason that we can't seem to get this process through over and over again.
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, we've had 20 different lapses in appropriations, but people tend to talk about this in terms of being four true shutdowns.
		So the big ones are two in 1995 and 1995 to 1996.
		We've got the Obamacare-related one with Ted Cruz in 2013, and of course, the 35-day one that you just referenced under the first Trump administration.
		And, you know, the appropriations process and funding the government has been something that's become more and more difficult.
		It's not a surprise that those bigger and longer shutdowns are more recent, just like the process is broken down on a number of different levels.
		So we've had higher polarization is a contributing factor to that.
		This has just become a much more difficult process.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Let's listen here to President Trump in his first term back in January of 2019 demanding that Congress appropriate border wall funding before reopening the government.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		We have a very, very unified party.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Rich has been fantastic.
unidentified		Everybody in that room was fantastic.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		There was no reason for me even to be there.
unidentified		I knew that before we went.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		But the Republicans want border security.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		They want national security.
unidentified		They want to have a steel barrier or a wall of concrete.
		They don't care, but I'll use any term they want.
		We need a barrier to stop the human traffickers and the drug trade and to stop all of the big problems that come, including gangs.
		They don't come through your checkpoints.
		They come through areas where you have hundreds of miles without walls and without barriers or without strong fences.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		So the Republican Party, I can say, and I just left an hour meeting, we had a great time, actually.
unidentified		There was no discussion about anything other than solidarity.
unidentified		We want national security and border security for our country.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Now, Senator Chuck Schumer was also in the position of minority leader at that time during that shutdown in 2019.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		And here he is urging the Republican majority and President Trump to end that shutdown.
chuck schumer ▲ ● ▼		I want President Trump to see his face in the face of all these others.
		I want President Trump to look into these faces and see what he is doing by using these men and women as pawns, using them in an extortion game to say, I am going to hurt these people unless I get my way.
		Mr. President, President Trump, look at the pain and suffering you're causing.
		So we have one simple message today: three words.
		Open the government.
		To Senate Republicans, open the government.
		To Leonard McConnell, open the government.
		To President Trump, open the government and start paying folks like Mr. Garfrancesco for their work.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Senator Schumer there was talking about the impact on federal workers, but there are broader economic impacts to government shutdowns as well, right?
unidentified		Absolutely.
		So you have GDP is affected.
		You are spending money because of the shutdown.
		You are paying federal workers to not work because you're then paying them retroactively.
		So if you're doing that accounting as well, you're losing that.
		But you're also having broader economic impacts because all of the different activities that you would do in an economy are a number of them are being slowed down because people are, you know, their loans are not going through, new mortgages are not going through.
		And different shutdowns vary a little bit in terms of individual agency contingency plans.
		But you are putting a damper on the economy.
		It's also one that is not uniformly felt throughout the United States.
		So places like D.C., for example, where you have a lot of federal workers have really taken a sucker punch.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's get to your calls for Laura Blessing of Georgetown University's Government Affairs Institute.
		Our phone lines again for Democrats, 202-748-8000.
		For Republicans, 202-748-8001.
		For Independents, 202-748-8002.
		And if you are a federal worker and have questions or thoughts to share about a potential shutdown, 202-748-8003.
		Let's start with Audrey in Huntsville, Alabama, on our line for Republicans.
		Good morning, Audrey.
unidentified		Hi, good morning, Kimberly and Ms. Blessing.
		I got something.
		Kimberly, if you can look it up, it's called the Pay Our Troops Act.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		The Pay Our Troops Act, you said?
unidentified		Pay Our Troops Act of probably 2025-2026.
unidentified		I can't remember the House number or the Senate number for it.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		2025, you're correct.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		There's a 2026 version as well.
unidentified		Okay.
		And I know that Speaker Johnson's not planning on having any votes Monday and Tuesday, which will be the 29th and the 30th.
		And they will shut down midnight of the 30th.
		And as far as I understand, it's still sitting in appropriations.
		And the National Defense Authorization Act hasn't been passed by the Senate, and they haven't had the conference to get it done.
		And I was just wondering if Ms. Blessings has any idea of how long it would take to pass that so that my son's on active duty so that he would get paid.
		And thank you so much, and have a very blessed day.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		That legislation that she mentioned, that Audrey mentioned, has been introduced.
		It doesn't look like it's made it out of committee yet, but I did see this other story here from Bloomberg government that the National Guard troops deployed to D.C. would go unpaid in a shutdown, that the National Guard troops deployed to Washington, D.C. for President Donald Trump's safe and beautiful mission are set to keep working in the city without pay.
		If the U.S. government shuts down over a funding dispute with the White House and Congressional Democrats, active duty troops, including reservists on federal duty, are required to show up for work in the event of a shutdown, but would not receive any paychecks until federal funding is restored.
		While Congress has sometimes passed legislation in prior shutdowns to ensure that military members get paid even during the lapse in government funding, House and Senate leaders so far have not brought up such a measure for a vote.
unidentified		And I think that's that legislation that Audrey was talking about.
		Yeah, absolutely.
		Yeah, to be sure, the military is less affected by a shutdown than other parts of the government.
		There are a variety of different rules that govern shutdowns, including protecting human life and property that come from the civil idea memos in 1980 and 1981 that govern the rules for how we do these things.
		So the military is less affected by that.
		That being said, they'll be on the job, but they will be getting back pay.
		And that's not what a lot of people would like.
		It sounds like your son included.
		Again, shutdowns cause pain.
		That's undeniable.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		John is in West Islip, New York, on our line for Republicans.
		Good morning, John.
		Can you turn down the volume on your TV, John, and then go ahead with your question for Laura Blessing?
unidentified		Hi, Laura.
		Good morning.
		Why can't the illegal aliens write to the country that they came from to request subsidies to help pay for their medical?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So we're talking about the potential government shutdown, John.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Did you have a question for Laura about that?
unidentified		Is anyone concerned about the even though they're going to have a shutdown, why are they having the shutdown?
unidentified		Because the Democrats want trillions of dollars and we don't have it.
pam bondi ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		So the Democratic position that they've advanced, the Senate bill that's been advanced is asking for additional money on top of the House plan and, well, the Republican plan, because it's been passed in the House and introduced, but not able to be passed in the Senate yet.
		It's about a trillion dollars more, and the bulk of that is for ACA or Affordable Care Act subsidies that are slated to expire in December, as well as reversing cuts to Medicaid.
		And so it does cost more money.
		It's not trillions, but it's about a trillion is the difference between that.
		But we've got a number of, the broader question of what is the difference between the parties here is both a question of policy and health care policy in particular, but also a question of executive actions that are undermining the congressional power of the purse.
		Because the other thing, while one could imagine that congressional Democrats have a number of different disagreements with the White House, what's actually in the bill is both the health care policy and a number of different things to protect the congressional power of the purse against a lot of highly unusual actions that we've seen in 2025 that we haven't seen before.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		We're talking about the rescissions.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Can you explain a little bit about what happened with the rescissions package is factoring into these negotiations?
unidentified		Absolutely.
		So the White House has both has canceled a lot of contracts and has rescinded money.
		And that's a word that comes from the Impoundment Control Act because a previous president, President Nixon, tried to not spend money that Congress had appropriated in a very large fashion.
		I think he was trying to not spend something like a third of all discretionary funds.
		It was really quite large.
		And we've seen these actions from the Trump administration that makes not only Congress say, gosh, we have the power of the purse and this is going against that.
		The government accountability office has ruled that these are illegal impoundments from the executive branch.
		You've had a number of different court rulings against these sort of things.
		But it also, not only is it going against the congressional power of the purse that we see in the Constitution, but it's also making it hard for negotiators to trust the White House that any sort of bargain that they come up with is going to stick.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Nancy is in Rogers, Texas on our line for Republicans.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Nancy.
unidentified		Yes, well, let me say first, I'm 81 years old, and I have worked all my life.
		And every time that I'm not working, like I've been laid off or something, I don't get paid.
		And I think the Congress should not get paid.
		I mean, even retrospectively, not back paid.
		If they're not getting working, they shouldn't get paid.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So, Nancy, just for clarification, do you mean just members of Congress, or do you think this is that federal workers in general should not get back pay?
unidentified		All federal workers, if they're not working, they should not get paid.
		That goes for the average person.
		When you work, you do not get, I mean, when you don't work, you don't get paid.
		When you work, that's when you get paid.
		And I think that would make them come to an agreement quicker if they weren't getting known that they weren't getting paid.
		The longer they stayed off, the more it would hurt them.
		And that's the only way to get things done sometime is to hit them in the pocketbook.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Various actors in politics have thought about different painful things that might be able to prompt people coming together.
		Congress has tried a variety of those over the years.
		That being said, these federal workers who are going to be furloughed are people who are going to then continue in those jobs.
		So they're not losing the jobs.
		They want to work.
		They're being prevented from working.
		And we've seen different studies that have shown that the experience of being furloughed makes these people more statistically likely to go seek other work.
		I know and work with a lot of federal employees, and these are really admirable public servants who are doing hard work, often without a lot of attention for the American people.
		And trying to give them a hard time or make them less likely to want to stay in their jobs is, I don't think, something that Congress should be doing.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Derek is in Lakeland, Minnesota on our line for independence.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Derek.
unidentified		Good morning, C-SPAN.
		Good morning, America.
		All right, I have a quick question before I make my comment.
		You had said that it's a sucker punch to a federal worker.
		What do you mean by that?
		And then I'll make my statement.
		Sure.
		So furloughing what could be somewhere in the range of 700,000 to 800,000 federal employees where they are not allowed to work and then they get back pay after a shutdown ends is something that is disruptive in their economic lives.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		What was your comment, Derek?
unidentified		Okay, so my comment is this.
		Obviously, Obamacare did not work or else we wouldn't need to be subsidizing it, thus the cut.
		On top of it, Medicaid has more enrollees than Medicare, which is completely disgusting.
		And so I'm all for the government shutdown.
		I want that vote guy to get in there and who's essential, who's not essential, and let's clean house once and for all.
		Go Vikings.
		Okay, we've got a lot of feelings there.
		In terms of health care policy, you know, Medicaid is a means-tested program, so you have to be at a certain economic status or below in order to receive it.
		You have roughly one out of every five Americans is on Medicaid.
		And those folks are having a tougher time, which is why they're on that program.
		You know, you can think whatever you want about Medicaid, but that is what it's designed to do.
		We're also going to see fairly large cuts to that program come into play in 2026 because of the big, beautiful bill that was passed earlier this year.
		So, you know, it's entirely possible that the lawmakers that enacted those cuts share some of your feelings.
		That being said, that bill is underwater in terms of public opinion, and part of those reasons are the cuts to programs like Medicaid.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		You touched on this earlier, but we also have a question about it from Jay Sanders on X. Do government employees automatically get paid for the time they were furloughed, or is that something Congress has to approve in any deal?
unidentified		Oh, that's a lovely question.
unidentified		Yeah, we had, after the last government shut down, they put it into law that they had to, that it wasn't going to be a question that they get paid after the fact.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Tony is in Flowertown, Pennsylvania, on our line for independence.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Tony.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I am definitely also in support of the shutdown.
		I do not see that our government is representing the people.
		So there was a Princeton study in 2014 that looked at the relationship between voter preference and legislative outcome.
		And what they found was that there was no relationship between what voters wanted and legislative outcomes.
		But they did find that money at interests get what they want 75% of the time.
		I think the people of Italy have it right right now.
		There's massive protests in the sheet streets.
		I think the people of Nepal have it right.
		I think that the people need to seize back power from the moneyed interest.
		The other part that I would be happy about is if we ran out of funding for the genocide that Israel is committing and we stopped funding that, I would be very happy if Israel wasn't able to bomb the six countries and seize land from them that they're bombing.
		I would be very pleased to see our government shut down.
		I am not in support of Democrats.
		I am not in support of Republicans.
		I am in support of the people who work in this country and are paying taxes but have no representation.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Tony, before we get Laura's response, just out of curiosity, what sorts of demands do you think the Democrats should be making in order to get on board with funding the government?
unidentified		Well, I would be happy to talk about that.
		I think that Momdani and New York City would be a good template if Democrats were interested in winning, but they're not.
		They would much rather see another Trump presidency than a Bernie Sanders or a candidate like Momdani.
		And that is why they're losing.
		And until they change, they'll probably continue to lose.
		And they deserve to lose.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Laura, any thoughts on what Tony said?
unidentified		Yeah, so we've got a lot of different thoughts here.
		And to be sure, we've seen lessening electoral and policy accountability in government over time.
		You mentioned an earlier study.
		So we've seen the erosion of that link.
		So that's a good concern that you have.
		The presence of money in politics is another good concern that you have.
		So there's a lot of different ways that you can measure that.
		And I could teach an entire class on it, so I'll limit myself here.
		But to be sure, you have far more corporate organizing than you do public interest group organizing.
		Of course, most lobbyists are there for access and not for directly paying for policy change.
		That being said, policy change tends to go in the interest of wealthier Americans.
		So I think you have a lot to say about a lot of different things here, but those two concerns I think are well-founded.
		That being said, is the shutdown an answer to that sort of thing?
		Well, if you're worried about vulnerable people instead of wealthy interests, shutting down the government, I don't think is a path to do that.
		So a lot of vulnerable people, as well as middle-class people, will be harmed by shutdown.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Diane is in Randolph, New Jersey on our line for Republicans.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Diane.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
		So my question to Laura is this.
		Perhaps I don't understand, but what I do understand is my question is, why is the argument for the government paying, you know, i.e. the taxpayers, U.S. citizens having to pay health care, Medicare, Medicaid benefits for illegals even on the table?
		By definition, they are illegal.
		A lot of people in this country do not support illegal citizens, the U.S. dollar going to them for health care, rent, so on and so forth.
		My position is to help the U.S. citizens that are struggling.
		So can you answer that question?
		There's actually a lot of limitations in terms of undocumented citizens not being able to receive a lot of those government benefits.
		So they're actually not able to receive a lot of those health care benefits that you're concerned about.
		Whether or not that's a good idea from a policy perspective, I think you and I have a difference of opinion.
		But in terms of what's in the law, you know, there are a lot of limitations to folks who are not American citizens, folks who are undocumented, actually being able to receive those benefits.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Andre, excuse me, Deneb is in West Babylon, New York on our line for Democrats.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Deneb.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I'm calling because I just wanted to mention or bring back up with the government shutdown of this time, this current government shutdown that we're facing.
		I just wanted to mention that this is the same government that went around the United States and shut down banks all around the country.
		They shut down Silvergate, Signature, Silicon banks in the South.
		They've shut down banks everywhere.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Deneb, I'm not sure I'm familiar with what you're referencing there.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Is there something specific that the Trump administration has done regarding banks that you're talking about?
unidentified		I'm not referring to the Trump administration.
		I'm actually referring to the previous administration.
		And after COVID, they shut down all the banks.
		They shut down First Republic Bank.
		I mean, you could name a million banks and they shut them all down.
		Silicon Valley Bank shut down.
		Signature Bank, Silvergate Bank, they shut them down because they didn't like, you know, so this is the same government that wants to shut the government.
		The Democrats want to shut the government down, but they shut down people's personal finances.
		And this was in the Biden administration.
		So now if they're going to continue to threaten shutting the government down, whether it's the Democrats or the Republicans that's threatening to shut the government down, we're looking and we're observing that it's the same people that all they want to do is hold people hostage.
		Because it wasn't just honestly, it wasn't just the President Donald Trump whose bank got closed.
		It was regular people whose banks got closed, small businesses whose banks got closed.
		And this is all about money.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So, Deneb, I do think the government shut the federal government shutting down is a different issue than these bank closures that you're talking about.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Did you have a question specifically for Laura about the potential shutdown that might be coming this week?
unidentified		I would rather her response to what I'm saying.
		I'm just bringing up the power that the government has that they exercise, and now they want to threaten or scare the people and saying, oh, the government might shut down in a few days again.
		They do this every nine months.
		I want you to respond to what I'm saying and referencing how the previous administration literally shut down banks.
		And all they're doing is trying to scare the public, you know, because I'm on Medicaid.
		Medicaid is the worst health care.
		I don't even use it.
		I know how to take care of myself.
		If I have to go to the hospital, I have health insurance.
		So I don't agree with them funding Medicaid.
		I agree with them putting people to work that have a knowledge base and can help other people and allowing the economy to circum and do what it's supposed to do instead of scaring people and taking away their financial power.
		And the government shutdown, they're just trying to scare people.
		Oh, the government might shut down.
		That's all.
		I just want to respond.
		Is it always possible for a bank to fail?
		That is not something that's directed by the federal government.
		There are a number of different regulations in place that are trying to make it harder for that sort of thing to happen.
		That being said, that this is not something that's being instigated in the past.
		I'm not familiar with all of the bank names that you just cited, but this seems to be an unrelated issue.
		But if you're interested in the strength of our financial institutions, that's an important issue to think about.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Andre is in West Virginia on our line for Democrats.
		Good morning, Andre.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Andre, make sure to turn down the volume on your TV and then go ahead with your question for Laura Blessing.
unidentified		Okay, yes.
		I'm calling for Laura Blessing.
		First of all, good morning, C-SPAN.
		I've been listening for years.
		This is the first time I've called.
		I'm a veteran.
		I'm 68 years old.
		I use a row leader.
		I get all my meds and everything from the VA hospital.
		I get free, you know, free medical from the VA.
		But because of this so-called shutdown, we're losing doctors, nurses, psychiatrists, psychologists, because I have PTSD.
		And I'm up under a social worker who found a place for me.
		And the thing about it is, what would this shutdown do to the VA that would sit there and affect me?
		That's a great question.
		I would like to know.
		That's a great question, sir.
		And first of all, thank you for your service.
		The VA will not, your medical as well as pension services from the VA will not be interrupted with the shutdown.
		So, you know, there are, you know, those are safe things for you.
		I think there's a kind of a wider conversation about health care in this country, as well as the health of rural hospitals, healthcare funding in general.
		That some of those larger choices, including funding cuts previously from the Trump administration and with the big beautiful bill, might be of concern to you.
		That being said, the shutdown will not affect VA services.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		David in Baltimore, who identifies as a federal employee, says, regarding mass layoffs during a shutdown, how would that work logistically if the people in these agencies were not allowed to work?
unidentified		That's a great question.
		We are how they would roll this out, nobody knows yet.
		All right.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Paul is in New York, New York, on our line for independence.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Paul.
unidentified		All right, how are you doing?
		So, Laura, I'd like you to explain something to me.
		You just said that federal workers are hardworking.
		They're ad role.
		Can you explain to me why they're harder working and more ad role than the average American who, again, as the Texas caller said, doesn't get paid when they are laid off?
		I mean, there's substantial privileges that people in academia and government get that I don't think they seem to realize that average Americans don't get.
		So you made that statement.
		I'd like to clarify that.
		That's number one.
		Number two, in terms of health care, you made another interesting statement that I've heard also guests on C-SPAN make, which is there are laws in place to stop, to prohibit benefits to go to illegal, illegals, illegal migrants who are here.
		And that's true.
		But again, if you actually look what happens in practice, and I can tell you, come here to New York City, they're getting health care benefits.
		Now, there's a policy question on that.
		But the idea that they're flying back to Venezuela to get chemotherapy or if they break an arm or whatever, that they're not getting health care in the United States or that they're paying for it, which is prohibitively expensive, is just not the reality.
		The fact is taxpayers are paying for it.
		Now, maybe they should.
		I mean, you know, that's a different argument.
		But let's pretend that people who are here, legally or not, are not receiving health care.
		And if they're low income, for the most part, taxpayers have to subsidize it massively.
		And I think it's just really important that we're honest and discuss this issue frankly and honestly with people as opposed to making those statements.
		If you could answer those two questions, I'd really appreciate it.
		Thanks so much.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So Paul raised two issues, following up on your point about federal workers being hardworking, but comparing them to other workers in the economy.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		And then the follow-up point about undocumented immigrants potentially getting access to health care.
unidentified		Sure.
		I don't think that we should be comparing who is more deserving as a worker and who isn't.
		I know many really wonderful federal employees and have a lot of admiration for them after working with them and teaching them for many years.
		I've also just been a human existing in the American economy and I feel the same way about a lot of people I've met in the private sector.
		So I'm not trying to put anybody down by complimenting another group.
		And in terms of undocumented folks being able to access health care, you're correctly citing that there are limitations for Medicaid as well as other government benefits that say that these folks are not able to get those benefits.
		Are they able to get health care at all?
		That's a little bit of a different issue.
		Whether they're paying for it, whether they're in mutual aid societies, they're able to access this stuff in other ways.
		In terms of what that looks like, that is not, I'm not going to be able to comment on that in detail, but those are what the laws are.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		A comment from Mace in Freeport, Illinois.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		The only problem with holding Congress's pay is that most of them are millionaires, so they could care less.
unidentified		Members of Congress will continue to be paid.
unidentified		It's their staff that are not going to be paid.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Charlie is in Florida on our line for Democrats.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Charlie.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I am glad to participate in this discussion because it is in the national interest for more people to be benefiting from the budget than less people.
		Now, let me go into more detail.
		The Tax cuts are going to benefit more so the rich people, and that's a smaller sector of the population.
		They're trying to mitigate the tax cuts that's going to inflate the deficit by cutting benefits to poor people, to the small people.
		And those are the majority of the people in the country.
		So, therefore, the national interest is being sacrificed.
		Secondly, the amount it costs for illegal aliens or whoever they are to get emergency care is very minimal, and they're going to get it regardless because they are here.
		And if they are seriously ill and they go to the hospital and emergency rooms, they have to treat them.
		They're humans, okay?
		So, they can't just turn them away because they're illegal and they're suffering.
		So, they're already here.
		So, it's a red herring.
		The thing about it is this government wants to serve only the rich people, and they don't care about the poor.
		They're only using immigration as a political football to blame.
		They point fingers at illegal aliens in order to divert attention from the very rich people who are the problem.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So, Charlie, we're just about out of time.
unidentified		Did you have a question for Laura?
		I asked Laura on those grounds if she thinks the Democrats holding out is justified.
		That's a great question because the Democrats holding out previous shutdowns typically don't result in policy concessions to the people holding up the process.
		That is what has happened in the past.
		There are good reasons to identify that what we're seeing right now in the actions of the executive in 2025 are different from previous shutdowns, and it's a different circumstance.
		That being said, the likelihood that we're going to have policy gains of significance anyway for the Democrats is probably not particularly high.
		So, are we doing this to call attention to larger things for the American people?
		Sure, it might absolutely do that.
		You know, what exactly will happen, nobody has a crystal ball.
		We've just seen the negotiations, well, are about to start back up.
		The White House is going to meet with congressional leaders of both parties on Monday afternoon after canceling meetings that they had early last week.
		So, we'll see how this goes.
		It could be a, we could not shut down the government at all.
		We could have a short shutdown.
		We could have a longer shutdown.
		You know, it's hindsight will be 2020 on this one, I think.
		And we've got some unusual elements, including the threats of additional federal firings or rifts, reductions in force, that we're looking at here.
		Polling is tended to punish the people who are holding up the shutdown.
		So, in those previous kind of four true shutdown cases, that's been the Republicans.
		That being said, so it's possible that the Democrats might take a polling hit.
		That being said, this is kind of a different time.
		And whether it's the Big Beautiful Bill Act, whether it's the promise of additional federal firings, whether it's Trump's polling numbers in general, you could see a different polling scenario here where people are going to look to the White House as being the problem when they're asking, answering polls.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you so much for your time.
		Laura Blessing, who is a senior fellow at the Government Affairs Institute at Georgetown University.
		Thanks for joining us.
unidentified		Happy to be here.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Coming up, we're going to take more of your phone calls with your comments in open forum.
		You can start calling in now.
		The numbers are on your screen, and we'll be right back.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		So you interviewed the other night.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I watched it about two o'clock in the morning.
unidentified		There was a little thing called C-SPAN, which I don't know how many people were watching.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Don't worry, you were in prime time too, but they happened to have a little rerun.
patty murray ▲ ● ▼		Do you really think that we don't remember what just happened last week?
patty murray ▲ ● ▼		Thank goodness for C-SPAN, and we all should review the tape.
unidentified		Everyone wonders when they're watching C-SPAN what the conversations are on the floor.
al green ▲ ● ▼		I'm about to read to you something that was published by C-SPAN.
sean duffy ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of things that Congress fights about, that they disagree on.
al green ▲ ● ▼		We can all watch that on C-SPAN.
unidentified		Millions of people across the country tuned into C-SPAN.
		That was a made-for-C-SPAN moment.
		If you watch on C-SPAN, you're going to see me physically across the aisle every day, just trying to build relationships and try to understand their perspective and find common ground.
		And welcome aboard to everybody watching at home.
		We know C-SPAN covers this a lot as well.
patty murray ▲ ● ▼		We appreciate that.
unidentified		And one can only hope that he's able to watch C-SPAN on a black and white television set in his prison cell.
		This is being carried live by C-SPAN.
		It's being watched not only in this country, but it's being watched around the world right now.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Mike said before, I happened to listen to him.
		He was on C-SPAN 1.
		That's a big upgrade, right?
jimmy carter ▲ ● ▼		Democracy is always an unfinished creation.
ronald reagan ▲ ● ▼		Democracy is worth dying for.
george h w bush ▲ ● ▼		Democracy belongs to us all.
bill clinton ▲ ● ▼		We are here in the sanctuary of democracy.
george w bush ▲ ● ▼		Great responsibilities fall once again to the great democracies.
barack obama ▲ ● ▼		American democracy is bigger than any one person.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Freedom and democracy must be constantly guarded and protected.
unidentified		We are still at our core a democracy.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		This is also a massive victory for democracy and for freedom.
unidentified		This fall, C-SPAN invites you on a powerful journey through the stories that define a nation.
		From the halls of our nation's most iconic libraries comes America's Book Club, a bold, original series where ideas, history, and democracy meet.
		Hosted by renowned author and civic leader David Rubinstein, each week features in-depth conversations with the thinkers shaping our national story.
		Among this season's remarkable guests, John Grisham, master storyteller of the American justice system.
		Justice Amy Coney Barrett, exploring the Constitution, the court, and the role of law in American life.
		Famed chef and global relief entrepreneur Jose Andres, reimagining food.
		Henry Louis Gates, chronicler of race, identity, and the American experience.
		The books, the voices, the places that preserve our past and spark the ideas that will shape our future.
		America's Book Club premiering this fall, Sundays at 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAM.
		Washington Journal continues.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back.
		We're in an open forum, ready to take your comments about public affairs issues of the day.
		We'll start with Colin in Waddington, New York on our line for independence.
		Good morning, Colin.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		I'd like to express an opinion on term limits.
doc in indiana ▲ ● ▼		I think the only way to solve all the problems in our country is to have term limits right from the top to the bottom, I would say, in all, I think, six years' terms.
unidentified		What they do right now is they do what the political party tells them to do in order to get re-elected because it is a high-paying, powerful job.
		And I guess they do anything to keep their job.
		So I believe the only way we're going to get out of our problems is to have term limits and short-term limits.
		But I'm also realistic to know they're never going to do it.
		So that's what I got to say.
		Thank you very much.
		Have a good day.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So many Americans are in agreement with Colin.
		There was some research from Pew back in 2023 on American support for various public policy proposals, including limiting the number of terms that members of Congress can serve.
		And 87% were in favor of limiting the number of terms that members of Congress could serve.
		Americans also supported putting a maximum age limit in place for elected officials in Washington, D.C., along with requiring all voters to show government-issued photo identification to vote.
		Also, broad support for putting a maximum age limit in place for Supreme Court justices.
		Let's get back to your calls in open forum.
		Rudy is in Sun City, California on our line for Democrats.
		Good morning, Rudy.
unidentified		Good morning, Kimberly.
		We're getting ready to have an election out here, a special election of Proposition 50.
		And we've been swamped by mailers and television commercials.
		But the only thing about it is they don't say why California is having this special election.
		So the people that are doing this are not being genuine.
		You know, they won't say it's because of Texas and what they did are doing to their voters.
		So, of course, I'm going to vote for it only because of what Texas did.
		Now, if Texas wouldn't have done that, then of course I would say, no, that's not fair.
		But, you know, with them and Donald in the office, they want every little advantage that they can get, even if it's, you know, throwing dirt in the face of their own voters.
		Okay, thank you very much, Kimberly.
		Bye-bye.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Jeff is in Westchester, New York on our line for Republicans.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Jeff.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thank you for taking the call.
		Just a couple of quick comments regarding the impending work, I'm sorry, federal government shutdown.
		You know, when Biden was in office, obviously there were thousands of federal jobs created, and whether those were sincere or not is open for debate.
		But what they did do is make the jobs data look a lot better than it actually was.
		And if a shutdown is an opportunity to maybe recalibrate and re-examine some of the workforce levels, I'm not sure that that's necessarily a bad thing, despite it being an inconvenience to some people.
		So I think, you know, some of this may be a remedy for past inappropriate actions.
		The other point I wanted to make was, you know, When Trump signed the One Big Beautiful bill, the local media, the national media, the politicians, everybody was basically having the same talking points about this was going to cause a lot of deaths.
		And then when PBS and NPR lost federal funding, apparently not being able to watch Sesame Street was going to also cause a lot of death.
		And I'm sure that a federal government shutdown is being portrayed as causing a lot of death.
		And I guess I'm hoping that someday there's a guest on C-SPAN or maybe one of the callers to the Democrat line can come on and talk about all of these scores of deaths that have occurred every time a Republican politician does something that a Democrat does not like.
		So thank you for taking my call.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Jeff was talking about some of the political rhetoric, and there was something else about the pushback from the White House in terms of some of the narratives around ICE in particular.
		And this came up when Pam Bondi, who declared, as reported here in Fox News, a new era of political violence as federal agents are deploying to ICE facilities nationwide.
		And this was the Attorney General Pam Bondi vowed a federal crackdown on Saturday, saying that America has entered a new era of political violence.
		Her stern warning against extremist groups targeting federal officers comes a day after she announced the Department of Justice agents would be deployed to immigrations and customs enforcement facilities nationwide.
		Bondi's announcement posted in a video on X comes days after a suspected gunman, Joshua John, 29, opened fire on a Dallas ICE facility from a nearby rooftop in what the FBI has described as a targeted attack on fellow law enforcement.
		Let's listen to some of her statement.
pam bondi ▲ ● ▼		We're witnessing a new era of political violence.
		Assassins have tried to murder President Trump twice and tried to kill Supreme Court Justice Kavanaugh.
		In Minnesota, legislators and even children attending mass were gunned down in cold blood in two separate incidents.
		And an assassin targeted and murdered our friend Charlie Kirk.
		A sniper shot three people at a Texas ICE facility, and now more than 200 violent rioters were at a Chicago ICE facility chanting, arrest ice, shoot ice.
		At least one had a gun.
		We've seen this before.
		We saw it in Portland and with the LA riots.
		These are not peaceful protests.
		These are coordinated attacks by radical extremists and they end now.
		Anyone who threatens or assaults our federal officers will be arrested and charged federally, not in some liberal state court.
		Same goes for anyone who's funding and aiding these extremists.
		You will be dismantled brick by brick.
		We are taking our country back.
		Make America safe again.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Back to your calls and comments in open forum.
		Sarah is in New Hampshire on our line for independence.
		Good morning, Sarah.
unidentified		Hey, good morning.
		That was coming from Pam Bondi, who lied to the Senate during her confirmation hearing, by the way.
		And also the rhetoric coming from the extreme right against the extreme left.
		And the fact is, 50% of us are independents, and at least half of each of these extremist parties hate their own parties.
		So it's time for us, the U.S., to take back our power.
		It was shown last week when people protested Walt Disney for canceling free speech.
		And we have messaging from the White House that free speech for me, but not for thee.
		Now, as far as the shutdown goes, I'm not for hurting the regular workers, but I am not for capitulating to Donald Trump.
		Now, the Democratic Party has a chance to leverage, and some of the demands that they should be making are the military off U.S. streets, the National Guard off U.S. streets.
		This is a misuse of power.
		There is not a war in Portland.
		Donald Trump said within the first couple of days he would end the war in the Ukraine and the Middle East.
		He has done neither.
		He's declared war on the American people.
		And it's time for us consumers, American people, 40% of the economy to fight back with our purchases.
		To see immigrants kidnapped and disappeared.
		These are the people that put food on our tables.
		Watch how produce disappears from the shelves.
		The price goes up.
		And why is this?
		Because of a racist attack on our neighbors to the South and Central America.
		This is unacceptable.
		These are human beings.
		They come here to work.
		They help our GDP.
		They should not be treated less than animals.
		And Donald Trump, how did he ever get back in the White House?
		Why?
		Because Joe Biden kept supporting Zionist Israel while they committed genocide in the Middle East.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's get some more callers in.
		Let's hear from Diane in Barberton, Ohio, on our line for Democrats.
		Good morning, Diane.
unidentified		Good morning, Kimberly.
		Number one, the lady that was talking before, God bless you because you're doing everything most of us are believing.
		Not these Republicans who one day will wake up and say, oh, I'm poor.
		And then they took away my health insurance because I was poor.
		I didn't have a job that had paid into giving us health insurance.
		And so now I'm so poor that I won't have any medical coverage.
		And that will happen because yesterday my sister told me, and she looked it up in Google, we are a Republican state.
		And our Republican governor asked Trump's administration to at least allow 359,000 children under the age of five to have medical coverage under that insurance that he's taking away.
		And the Trump administration said no, that they will not give them that money for those children.
		And when it comes to the ICE situation, well, we know they won't be going to heaven because they are doing cruelty, not being humans.
		And they should never be paid.
		I would love to stop payment on their paychecks.
		I want the government to shut down because these things that these people in the United States need, you're just taking them away and give them to the rich.
		What do the rich do for us except for not paying into their Social Security?
		Because after all, once you get, what is it, you make $160,000 a year, then you don't have to pay any more into Social Security.
		Well, you know, how many people have that affordability to make that kind of money?
		And again, ICE is being targeted.
		And even that last person who did the shooting of the migrants in the van, evidently, you don't realize law enforcement gets out first.
		Then the prisoners stay in the van until the people who are the law enforcement allow them to come out of that van.
		So that man actually was trying to kill migrants.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Kurt is in Anaheim, California on our line for Republicans.
		Good morning, Kurt.
		Kurt, go ahead.
unidentified		You're an open forum.
unidentified		Good morning.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		How are you doing, Kimberly?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Doing well, thank you.
unidentified		What's your comment?
		I just want to say thank you for what you're doing.
		I hope you have a great day and keep doing the good work.
		And I think everybody just needs to relax and calm down a little bit and be thankful for all things that we have and to help somebody.
		You know, take your eyes off yourself and help somebody.
		It feels better.
		Thank you, my dear.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Joan is in New Jersey on our line for independence.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Joan.
unidentified		Good morning, Kimberly.
		The one thing that I would like to talk about, are you familiar with this book?
		It's called Racial Resentment in the Political Mind by Darian W. Davis and David C. Wilson.
		I feel that what's happening in this country is the fact that we're not being honest with each other.
		And there's a conversation that I would like to see being had.
		But I don't see anybody wanting to have the balls to take on the conversation.
		And the truth is, we have normalized racism in this country.
		It's become normal.
		And if you look, there is no Republican Party anymore.
		When you look at the Republican Party, they're conservatives.
		If you look at what's going on in this country right now with MAGA, that's not conservatism.
		That is an orchestrated attempt to turn this country back.
		And I mean, turn it all the way back.
		And people can say, oh, the Republicans voted for lower groceries.
		They didn't vote for groceries.
		They voted for supremacy.
		This country is heading back.
		And this did not come to me until Charlie Kirk died.
		And I witnessed this country trying to uplift a hateful person.
		What happened to him was wrong.
		Nobody should be shot down like that.
		That is completely wrong.
		But for this country to be celebrating someone who was so hateful and everything he said was hateful, it was not based on facts.
		The comments he made about black people were better off in the 1940s.
		And that's when it dawned on me.
		Racial resentment is what's happening in this country.
		You have a portion of white Americans that are resentful to the little progress that black and brown people have made in this country.
		The progress that came from the civil rights movement, from the Voting Rights Act, from equal employment, from diversity and inclusion.
		Look at all the things that MAGA is tearing down from day one.
		They care nothing about law and order.
		We have a president who's a liar.
		We have a president who has no morals.
		Donald Trump should get an award, an Oscar for being the best playing president because he is being an actor.
		Donald Trump is not smart enough to make some of these moves that is happening in this country.
		And this is always the country.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Got the idea.
		Let's hear from Larry in Salisbury, North Carolina on our line for Democrats.
		Good morning, Larry.
unidentified		How are you doing?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good, thanks.
unidentified		I'd like to give a shout out to Jimmy Kimball.
		And Trump, he reminds me of Wally Coyote going after the roadrunner.
		Everything he does messes up, and he ends up with a stupid look on his face, like Donald was there at the bottom of the escalator when he stepped on it and it stopped.
		He had that stupid look on his face.
		All right.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Elvin is in Zanesville, Ohio, on our line for Republicans.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Alvin.
unidentified		Good morning, young lady.
		Just a couple points here.
		I voted for Donald Trump all three times, and if it came to, I'd vote for him again.
		On immigration, can you hear me?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I can hear you, Elvin.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Please go ahead.
unidentified		Okay.
		On immigration, the Democrats, there's a lady in the Democratic Party saying that brown people, Latinos, are being swept up and shipped away and disappeared.
		That lady said nothing about.
		Hey, Elvin, now it's a little bit hard to hear you.
		Jeffrey, they never use the word illegal.
		Illegal.
		It's immigrants.
		Immigrants.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Alvin, it is getting a little bit challenging to hear you.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Can you just hold your phone up against your face so we can hear you clearly?
unidentified		Yeah, the point is: immigration, the ICE, is illegal with criminal records.
unidentified		But the Democrats never ever use that word illegal.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Byron is in Wilson, North Carolina, on our line for independence.
		Good morning, Byron.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I just wanted to, well, the first thing I want to say is the lady, I think it was about three calls ago, and she was saying the Democratic Party gave away our country because of that Israel supporting that genocide, Biden doing that.
		And as soon as she said that, I don't know, maybe somebody hit a flash to cut her off, but I noticed she got cut off right away because you usually don't do that.
		You use a very good at fact checking and not cutting people off.
		But you know, I think y'all should have a program on the best and the worst of C-SPAN.
		And I think that will be a good program because ever since Brian Lamb was replaced, C-SPAN has just went, they gave a lot of people a platform up there and didn't question them.
		They got rid of Jesse, who probably was the best to take Brian Lamb's place, but y'all put Pedro up there.
		You know, he's been there forever and he just said, yeah, yeah, yeah, and cut off.
		Y'all getting better at that now.
		But a while back, you let all these groups now.
		Now listen to this, ma'am.
		The Harris Town Foundation, NRA, all these Russia-supported outfits that, you know, goes and stumble up all this stuff right here to put out here to brainwash the people.
		I don't see them up there no more because they got their stuff done.
		But y'all would let those guys come up there and they would overtalk the people in your position.
		They'll just overtalk them.
		Sometimes only two or three callers get in and they spread garbage, garbage, garbage.
		It wouldn't be in fact checked.
		This is how a guy here should be C-SPAN.
		I don't know if Trump gave y'all a call because he's really on the back of all the media.
		I don't know if he's called C-SPAN.
		The reason I say that is because this other guy got a $50,000.
		He accepted a bribe.
		One of the people that's in charge of immigration ahead got.
		Y'all haven't even had a show on that.
		So have Trump called y'all and say, I don't want to hear that.
		But I'm so afraid that C-SPAN is going to be next on the agenda of Trump, of President Trump.
		And I want the callers to really hold C-SPAN responsible because you guys could easily become a tool of Donald Trump like the other media have.
		And they have really, really failed us.
		But Russia has really, through the media, have really made a money.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		I just want to give some folks some information on one of the stories that you've referenced there.
		This is a story from MSNBC that Tom Homan was investigated for accepting $50,000 from undercover FBI agents.
		Trump's DOJ shut it down.
		The FBI and justice officials closed the investigation, which a Justice Department appointee had called a deep state probe in early 2025.
		And this says, in an undercover operation last year, the FBI recorded Tom Homan, now the White House Borders are, accepting $50,000 in cash after indicating he could help the agents who are posing as business executives win government contracts in the second Trump administration, according to multiple people familiar with the probe and internal documents reviewed by MSNBC.
		The FBI and Justice Department planned to wait to see whether Homan would deliver on his alleged promise once he became the nation's top immigration official.
		But the case indefinitely stalled soon after Donald Trump became president again in January, according to six sources familiar with the matter.
		In recent weeks, Trump appointees officially closed the investigation after FBI Director Kash Patel requested a status update on the case, two of the people said.
		So I just wanted to give folks some context on that story that you were referencing.
		Next up is Lewis in Salisbury, North Carolina on our line for Democrats.
		Good morning, Lewis.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		You know, there's a lot of things happening here in America these past few months.
		And like the young man got shot in the neck on September the 10th, and then you that no one in the media is saying anything about.
		Maybe you could pull it up.
		There was a young man on September 15th.
		His name, if I hope I'm pronouncing it correctly, is DeMontree Tyrese.
		He was found hung, a young black man, 21 years of age, on the campus of Delta College in Cleveland, Mississippi.
		And now no one is really actually bringing this up forefront.
		It is happening.
		Therefore, there was like two hangings this year for young black men in America.
		Now, it's probably more than that.
		But what I'm saying is this.
		Why is it that every time they find a young black man hanging, they saying it's suicide?
		There's many ways you can commit suicide.
		I don't think you would take that time and trouble to hang a rope from a tree.
		But please, you can fact check it.
		You can see I'm telling the truth.
		Let the people hear that there are hangings of black men in America off of what somebody did, a white guy to Charlie, whatever his name is.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Charlie Kirk, I'm just trying to pull up one of the many articles about the death that you're referencing.
		And here's a story in The Guardian.
		Family of the black student found hanging from a tree on a school campus has hired the lawyer Ben Crump.
		Questions mount after Delta State University found the body of Demar Travian Reeve near the pickleball courts.
		And this was the family of the student who was found hanging from a tree on a college campus in Mississippi, as Lewis was just referencing.
		But that is all of the time that we have for Washington Journal today.
		Thanks to everyone who called in and shared your thoughts.
		We are going to be back with another edition of the show starting 7 a.m. Eastern tomorrow morning, and we hope you'll join us then.
		Thanks, and have a great day.
unidentified		To across the Country.
		Coming up Monday morning, we'll talk about the potential government shutdown and other news, first with former Biden Domestic Policy Council Director Neera Tandon, currently the president of the Center for American Progress, and later with USA Today White House correspondent Francesca Chambers and the Manhattan Institute's Rob Henderson discusses how to combat political extremism in the United States, including why some young men are increasingly being radicalized online.
		C-SPAN's Washington Journal.
		Join the conversation live at 7 Eastern Monday morning on C-SPAN, C-SPAN Now, our free mobile app, or online at c-span.org.
		I'm Dasha Burns, host of Ceasefire, bridging the divide in American politics.
		Ceasefire premieres October 10th.
		This fall, C-SPAN invites you on a powerful journey through the stories that define a nation.
		From the halls of our nation's most iconic libraries comes America's Book Club, a bold, original series where ideas, history, and democracy meet.
		Hosted by renowned author and civic leader David Rubenstein, each week features in-depth conversations with the thinkers shaping our national story.

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