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Aug. 29, 2025 19:13-20:03 - CSPAN

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Washington Journal Lauren Leader

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greta brawner

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unidentified		Does that include the insurrectionist?
		Thank you.
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greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Joining us this morning is Lauren Leder.
		She's the co-founder and CEO of All In Together, here to talk about Women's Equality Day.
		Lauren Leder, what is Women's Equality Day?
		Why do we celebrate it?
unidentified		So when the Constitution was founded, as we all know, voting rights were granted to white land-owning men.
		And women who even then were critical to the founding of the nation and have been essential to American history always were excluded from voting rights.
		And after a more than 100-plus year battle for the right to vote, suffragists finally won their rights.
		And so Women's Equality Day celebrates the day in which actually the 19th Amendment, which guarantees the right to vote for to be very specific white women, was ratified by the United States Congress after a constitutional amendment.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		How would you describe the state of voting for women in this country today?
unidentified		Well, part of why I emphasize that the 19th Amendment guaranteed the right to vote for white women is that obviously black women were disenfranchised until the Voting Rights Act in 1964.
		So they waited a long time.
		And then even after, we know, obviously, that the right to vote for many Americans has been a struggle.
		I think part of what we see today is it's a particularly concerning moment when it comes to the 19th Amendment, which seems like something so sacrosanct and such a bedrock of American democracy.
		And yet there is this movement underfoot in far-right conservative circles to deny women the right to vote.
		And there is an ongoing sort of through-line undercurrent of, you know, sort of look back of ultra-ultra conservatives who view the rights of women as inferior and have been very vocal about it.
		And in fact, some of the, you know, most extreme right-wing bloggers and online commentators have been calling for the 19th Amendment to be repealed.
		I wrote about this a few years ago, and it wasn't really taken seriously, but now it's really gone further.
		And in the sort of like trad wife circle, some of the stuff that we see online, ongoing conversations about whether or not women, for instance, should be subservient to their husbands, this issue keeps coming up.
		And so that's one piece.
		And then, of course, the other piece is the issue that has been very well publicized in recent weeks about ongoing challenges to voter access through gerrymandering, which continues to be just an absolute political habitato.
		So, you know, and then of course the president has recently said that he wanted to see an end to mail-in voting.
		So, you know, voting rights in this country, while they seem like such a sacrosanct and basic part of how we operate, are under constant debate.
		And I think it's important on these days where we remember how hard won the rights were that we think about, you know, what the future is and what the fights will continue to be to preserve those rights.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		There's concern among women's rights advocates in your organization that women's right to vote is currently under threat by the passage of the SAVE Act in the House.
		This legislation requires all voters to provide proof of U.S. citizenship, like a passport or birth certificate when registering to vote or updating their voter registration.
		It passed by the House in April and it's up for review in the Senate.
		Why is this legislation a threat?
unidentified		Well, I will tell you that this is one of those bills that really caught fire through social media as women started to understand what the potential implications were, because essentially what the SAVE Act says, look, you know, conservatives have been very worried about voter fraud and concern.
		There have been, you know, lots of conversations over the last few years about whether or not, you know, people who are citizens are voting or not.
		There's very little evidence that that is true, but it doesn't stop the internet from being set aflame.
		And as a response to that, the SAVE Act tries to do, you know, essentially does a kind of voter ID that requires that the name on your passport or your birth certificate match your current name.
		Well, of course, millions of women realized instantaneously that that was ridiculous because, of course, so many women change their names through marriage or other reasons.
		But marriage is really one of the primary reasons that women change their names.
		So does that mean that married women would be disenfranchised, would be unable to vote?
		That's a real problem that has not been addressed to date with the SAVE Act.
		So people were freaking out about this with good reason because regardless of your political affiliation, there are tens of millions of women who would potentially lose the right to vote if their names didn't match on their ID.
		And I think, look, one of the other big issues with the SAVE Act, which, you know, many people have pointed out, we do not have a national ID in this country.
		You know, that's a different conversation.
		But we have lots of Americans who do not have their birth certificates.
		They are American citizens.
		They do not have passports.
		Very small numbers of Americans have passports.
		So to require these ID requirements, while on the face of them seem rational and reasonable, in practicality, are completely, will lead to mass disenfranchisement of voters, you know, for no reason, because most of the claims of voter fraud are completely unfounded.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's get to cause.
		Christine in West Bridgewater, Massachusetts, Democratic caller, you're up first in this conversation.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yes.
		I just was wondering.
		So Donald Trump is going to be a disaster for women.
		We're the next target is what I'm getting from everything in his administration.
		And he plays the fears on people so good that he manages to twist.
		I don't know why any woman or immigrant would vote for this man, and yet they still back him.
		I don't understand it.
		I don't understand how women or immigrants can vote for a man that's so against it all.
		Even the previous gentleman you had on, he never answered the question about why aren't they in Mississippi.
		He just talked in circles when it's so obvious what's going on.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Christine, well, let's get a response from Lauren Leder.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Well, listen, I mean, look, there have been very deep political divisions among women in this country in the same way that there have been deep political divisions among men.
		We don't all agree.
		And, you know, if you look at recent history, and I always talk about, you know, we're here to talk about the 19th Amendment, but following that, the next most important conversation that we had about women's rights was the ERA battles in the 1970s, right?
		The fight to pass an equal rights amendment, which would have explicitly secured women's rights in the United States Constitution.
		Well, it was on a path to victory until a group of conservative women rose up against the ERA and their concerns were that equal rights was going to mean that, for instance, women would be drafted.
		And this was in the aftermath and in the ending years of the Vietnam War, that there would be an end to alimony because if women were equal, they wouldn't be entitled to that anymore.
		So there was a lot of fear-mongering, but part of it was also this sense that liberal feminism just didn't speak to a lot of women in this country who did have more traditional values, who saw feminism as a threat to their family choices.
		And I'll say also that the Christian conservative movement that started with Ronald Reagan in the 80s did a really amazing job of villainizing feminism, and driving a wedge between Democrat and Republican women, who, by the way, mostly agreed until that point.
		And also, finally, of course, abortion politics.
		And so, you know, to your point, look, Trump has already made it very clear that there were a lot of issues around women's rights.
		That, you know, he was committed to setting back abortion rights being number one.
		You know, that was a very significant commitment that he made, and he followed through on it.
		And he has been clear that he's proud of it.
		So, you know, I think the ongoing debates over IVF, I mean, there's a long list, but you know, it is important to understand why so many women do support him.
		And it's deeply rooted in a lot of mistrust for liberalism and mistrust for feminism.
		And by the way, last point I'll make is that Republicans did an exceptionally good job of using the trans issue as a way to galvanize conservative women as well.
		You know, many women see, you know, trans women in sports as offensive.
		So, you know, it's just, I understand for some of you, it's hard to understand a lot of Americans struggle with how the other side thinks, but I think it's important to understand where people are coming from.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We'll go to Jane in River Edge, New Jersey, Democratic Caller.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Jane, good morning.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		Ms. Leader, I appreciate all that you do.
		My own, both grandmothers were born in an era where they could not vote.
		They didn't have the right.
		And sexism I see as a generational thing.
		Both males and females in my family are profoundly misogynistic.
		And I am very disheartened about the misogyny on wine in particular.
		And I'm wondering, where are all the women saying, look, I'm sick of this.
		Where are all the women that say enough is enough?
		You know, with sexualizing women, young girls.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We get your point, Jane.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		So Lauren, Later, let's talk about a resurrection in the movement.
unidentified		Yeah, so look, a couple of things.
		Like, you know, look, I think it's a little bit whack-a-mole.
		You know, in 2016, you know, when we first started to see like really intense misogyny at the center of the political process, right?
		All the sort of sexism against Hillary and the stuff that was coming up in the 2016 campaign, you know, it was before me too.
		And there were actually a lot of people in the media.
		You know, I've been very, you know, I've been in the media for a long time.
		You know, there was tremendous sexism in the media as well.
		We had a very few women in senior roles, et cetera.
		I won't get into it, obviously, like the Matt Lowers of the world who were also in control of the narrative.
		And I actually felt that we made huge progress after that, that the Me Too movement really shifted the way that legacy journalism was covering women.
		I've spent the last decade, you know, calling out sexism in the media, calling it out very publicly in the media, and I've gotten a lot of support for that.
		And I think there's a lot of people who do do that.
		On the other hand, part of the challenge is that with social media, it's so hard to tackle because it's everywhere.
		And it is like whack-a-mole.
		You know, we were tracking in the 2024 election the amount of online misogyny and racism that was directed, by the way, not just towards Kamala, but also even to Usha Vance, who was the only other woman, you know, who was really in the public sphere.
		And of course, we've seen this against the First Lady as well.
		There has been just an absolute avalanche of hate online, and it is just really hard to respond to.
		Now, the campaigns did a pretty good job of fighting back, but it's a huge issue.
		And then I just want to say one other thing, which is that actually, ironically, maybe for some, although I think it's pretty noble, is that some of the worst of the online attacks on women are actually coming from AI-generated deep fakes and sexualized images of women and girls.
		And there is a bipartisan effort to block that material from being posted.
		And there is a bill that was championed by First Lady Melania Trump and by Ted Cruz and Amy Klobuchar that passed the House, the Senate, and was voted into, you know, signed into law by the president, which requires social media companies to immediately remove any deep fake or AI-generated pornography of children.
		Now, it is a bare minimum, and there's so much more that needs to be done.
		But I actually am very heartened that in some ways this is becoming more of a bipartisan issue.
		There is a sense that, like, there is a line that, yes, there's a tremendous amount of hate, but that the sexualization and especially using AI to generate this stuff against people's will, you know, really should be illegal.
		And, you know, the laws are slow to catch up, but you know, I'm an optimist.
		There is a lot of really dark stuff out there.
		There's no question that the misogyny against women has mainstreamed and it's getting worse in a lot of ways.
		But I'm hopeful that there's also some line that both parties can agree on that are unacceptable and that have to be, you know, have to be, the worst harms need to be prevented.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We will go to Rick, who's in Minnesota, Democratic caller.
unidentified		Rick?
		Yes.
		I'd like to say that Lauren is correct in what she's talking about, the 19th Amendment.
		And the simple, the most succinct way of putting what the troubles are is to say that all problems, but the 19th Amendment included are the result both collectively and individually concerning gender, race, economic inequality,
		and all other sorts of things.
		To put it succinctly, collective, all collective, and all individual problems are caused by self-interest.
		The self-interest of billionaires, the self-interest of the people in power.
		And that's as succinct as I can make it.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Rick, Lauren Leder.
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, look, I think that we do have this kind of epidemic of self-interest in the country right now.
		And I worry about it very much.
		And in fact, some of the, you know, some of my friends and colleagues who've been really trying to focus on, you know, sort of solutions to the polarization have centered on the need for us to do more around public service.
		You know, there have been efforts for years to like bring back like a public service core.
		Obviously, I don't think that's happening anytime soon.
		But, you know, that kind of sense of civic participation and collective good, I do think has been eroded.
		One thing I'll just say about the work that we do at All In Together is that we're nonpartisan and we have been very intentionally nonpartisan because we want to create a space where people can come together regardless of their party ID and focus on solutions and focus on the things that we want to advance as a society, namely civic participation and a greater voice for the American people and especially for women in our democracy.
		And, you know, my hope is that continues to be galvanizing.
		And I think there are, you know, a significant number of Americans who, you know, cherish our democracy, who understand the importance of voting rights and of participation, who do care very much about their fellow Americans and want to see public policy reflected in that.
		But we also have a lot of forces that, to your point, you know, seek to undermine the collective good for personal power.
		And I think that is really becoming a more clarion call for many people, the sense that, hold on, you know, at a basic minimum, we've always believed that our system should be fair.
		And if we're creating a system that is unfair, you know, that is something that first and foremost we need to rise up against.
		But it's hard.
		And I think, you know, for so much of the last like 50 years, we've been used to this sort of positive ascension of rights and freedoms, meaning it's only ever expanded in most of our lifetimes.
		And I think that's part of why the Dobbs decision was so shocking for so many Americans because it was the first time that we saw our rights rescinded.
		Whatever you think about abortion, that's a fact of what happened.
		And there's a lot of concern that something like that may happen around gay marriage.
		For instance, there are a number of cases before the Supreme Court that could potentially upend what is now considered a sacrosanct right, which is the right of gay couples to marry.
		So nothing is assured.
		And I think it's going to be the work of our generation.
		And I say ours collectively, those of us that are here on this planet, to reverse those trends.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We're talking with Lauren Leder this morning.
		She's the co-founder and CEO of All In Together.
		AllinTogether.org is the website.
		We're marking Women's Equality Day here in this conversation.
		Republicans dial in at 202-748-8001.
		Democrats 202-748-8000.
		Independents 202-748-8002.
		And you can text if you don't want to call at 202-748-8003.
		Lauren Leder, here is a text from one of our viewers who says, in each of the past three general elections, women have voted for Trump on an average of 57%.
		Why do women vote against their interests and principles?
unidentified		Yeah, well, so let's break it down.
		So it's a very specific segment of the female vote.
		It's white, non-college educated women that primarily drove those numbers.
		When you look at the numbers of black women, you know, 90 plus percent of black women voted for Kamala, voted for Biden, voted for Hillary.
		And that's been very consistent.
		So, you know, and college educated women have also consistently voted to the left.
		So what you see is that there is this like very deep both educational and economic divide among women that exists, you know, among all voters.
		Men are a little bit more consistent in the way that they vote, meaning there's more consistency between college educated and non-college educated men.
		And between now, we saw in this last election, you know, an increase in the number of Hispanic men and black men who voted for Trump from previous elections.
		But it is a very specific group of people, of women that, you know, have voted consistently for Trump.
		And that's part of the point that I made before, which is that, you know, I think it's been a terrible mistake of the feminist movement, you know, to assume that women all agree.
		They don't.
		And I think that's clearer than ever.
		And I think that we, you know, Democrats have not done a very good job of engaging, you know, women in the center, women center right.
		Now, Biden did a very good job of that.
		And actually, it's part of what drove his victory in 2020: he won a larger plurality, especially of sort of women, like suburban women.
		We talk about them all the time because they tend to shift political ideologies.
		They're often registered independents.
		They're somewhere in the middle.
		Biden did an excellent job of that.
		Harris just simply didn't.
		And as close as the election was, you know, she did lose, you know, a significant share of those white, non-college-educated women.
		So, look, that's a challenge for the Democratic Party to figure out how to find the right candidates that can connect beyond these political lines.
		Look, the brand of the Democratic Party is in deep trouble.
		The polls all show that the, you know, the numbers of Americans who are registered as Democrats is declining.
		And so, you know, I've been saying for a long time that the issue, we really, you know, every candidate, left or right, really needs to center on the issues and stop centering on party ID.
		It's just not going to win in the same way that it used to.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Jerry's in Long Beach, Washington, Republican.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Jerry, question or comment here for our guest, Lauren Leder.
unidentified		Got a question for you, Lauren.
		When you opened up your opening comments, you mentioned that there were three, I mean, excuse me, you mentioned there were some right-wing bloggers that were trying to get the 19th Amendment repealed.
		I'd like you to give me three names so that I can do research on those folks and find out who those knuckleheads are.
		Please provide me with three names.
		Thank you.
		Sure.
		Thanks for that.
		So there's been this kind of like wide-ranging sort of undercurrent.
		One of the things that got a lot of attention this past week, and you'll forgive me because I don't remember the exact name of the person that he retweeted, but Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth retweeted a blogger who did specifically say that he believes that the 19th Amendment should be repealed.
		And part of why it got on, and I forgive me for not remembering the name of the person that he retweeted, but it got a lot of attention because this is the platform of the Secretary of Defense, you know, who is himself a Christian conservative and has made, you know, been very clear about his values.
		And that got a lot of attention because it actually amplified some of what has been an undercurrent in circles for a long time.
		The Southern Poverty Law Center and also the Anti-Defamation League both track misogynist hate groups and track the ongoing sort of noise that they are putting out online.
		What's been really interesting is that some of the groups, for instance, that were behind the January 6th attacks, the Proud Boys and other groups, also have very specifically misogynistic platforms that explicitly say they believe that women are inferior, should not have the right to vote, et cetera.
		So a number of the sort of far-right organizations also make this issue part of their platform.
		And that's been getting tracked by a number of organizations that look at sort of hate groups generally.
		So forgive me for not having them right now.
		I'll go look it up and I'll be happy to post it on Twitter later for you.
		But check out the, if you want to just Google the retweet from Pete Hegseth, that will definitely give you some insights.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Patty's next in Reidsville, Wisconsin, Independent.
unidentified		Good morning, Lauren.
		Morning.
		Thank you.
		This is all new to me.
		I'm 80 years old.
		I just turned 80.
		I was a career nurse.
		I was married.
		I had two grown educated daughters.
		But my dad had a whole house full full of women.
		And he was a woman's liver.
		He felt that women should be treated as equals.
		And it was easy for me to become a Christian because Jesus set the example of liberating women and he was respectful towards women and encouraging and supportive.
		That being said, is one of the things that irritates me is, and I don't see this on C-STAN.
		You're a host and you are dressed appropriately.
		But when I see mainline news, I see women with plunging necklines and tight clothing and showing a lot of their anatomy.
		And that is frustrating.
		To me, it's not professional reporting.
		Would you address that?
		Thank you.
		well i gotta i feel a little bit of compassion for some of those women because some of us sometimes have a little difficulty finding the dresses and i once was wearing a dress on television and i will tell you i definitely was a little more exposed than i realized and twitter told me all about it afterwards and i was very embarrassed so it's not always people's fault But look, I mean, I think there is, you know, I think some of it comes, I was on Fox News for a long time and they all, they sort of pioneered the kind of like sexy newsgirl thing.
		It's their, it's their shtick.
		They've encouraged, you know, a lot of their anchors to, you know, dress in certain ways.
		But like, look, I happen to be someone who believes that it's progress, that women can make their own choices about how they look and how they dress.
		And, you know, I may not, I'm kind of, I'm turning 50, so I'm a little old-fashioned on some things too.
		I'm pretty conservative.
		But like, you know, I try not to judge.
		I let women make their own choices, and that's progress to me as they like get to decide what they wear, when, why, and how.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Going back to the previous conversation, the website 19thnews.org has this headline, who's questioning women's right to vote?
		A post from Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth showed his support of a fringe evangelical Christianity that is gaining more traction in the Republican Party.
		For those that are interested, you can go to 19thNews.org.
unidentified		And by the way, I really encourage people to follow 19th News.
		It's a terrific, nonpartisan, publicly funded, meaning like it's not, it's not a commercial news site.
		It's all donors.
		It's a 501c3, a nonprofit news site.
		It's founded by friends of mine who, to the answer, actually, I should have mentioned it before when the caller asked about misogyny in the news.
		The 19th was founded specifically to cover stories about women that other news outlets weren't covering.
		And they've been incredibly successful.
		And it's a really terrific source, very balanced, really just reports on things about how women's lives are going in this country in ways that a lot of other people don't.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Robin's next in Phoenix, Democratic Caller.
unidentified		Yes.
		First, real quick, for those that are not real familiar with women's rights, if you'll watch On the Basis of Sex, which is the story of RBG, and then follow it, with a net three-part mini-series called Miss, which picks up from 1973 on through around 1980 or so.
		And that's where the got the ERA mylin, basically.
		I'm 67, and I graduated high school in 74.
		So all of this is real familiar with me.
		And I'm college educated, corporate retired, and I live so home.
		So this white, this misogynistic behavior, I saw this back in Texas, even in the early 90s, that was getting out of hand.
		And a lot of it started in Oklahoma with the churches.
		I want to say the alternative churches, the evangelical churches, okay, they started with all the rock and roll music, which did bring in listeners and stuff.
		But one of the churches that I attended, because my boss was going, and my husband and I were politics, et cetera.
		And we went several times.
		Hey, Robin.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Robin, I apologize, but you are breaking up.
		It's difficult to follow your line of argument.
		Lauren, Leder, do you have a response for Robin based on what she said?
unidentified		Yeah, I think she was just saying that everyone should go watch the RBG movie, which is great.
		And actually, there's a documentary about her too, which is really, really interesting and very well done.
		And there's been some new movies recently that talk about the history of the 1970s and the women's rights movement, which you know drives me nuts because I think most Americans don't know.
		You know, we spend so much, there is a lot of coverage of civil rights, of the civil, you know, civil rights movement that almost every American kid learns in school.
		You know, they everyone knows who Martin Luther King is, as they should.
		But what they don't know is they don't know, you know, Gloria Steinem and they don't know, you know, Phyllis Schlafly, and they don't know, you know, this sort of fight for women's rights.
		I think, you know, many women of my generation, and as I say, I'm turning 50 this year, so I was born in 75, you know, really have just grown up in a world where we thought all the doors were open to us.
		And it's been very, it's been really shocking along the way.
		And I think, you know, the history of movements is for all movements is often driven by people's anger, right?
		That they feel a sense of anger and injustice because they see something that is not right and it drives them to act.
		And that has been a mobilizing factor, you know, as long as this country has been in existence.
		We were founded on anger.
		We were founded on rejection of oppression and monarchy and tyranny.
		And I think that as, you know, women of a new generation are coming to understand what rights they do and don't have, the limits of their place in American society, those who would seek to make them to marginalize them, you know, I think that can be very galvanizing.
		And as I say, we're nonpartisan all together, but we really try to focus on helping people take the things that matter most to them individually and turn it into civic action.
		Really learn like, how do you stand up and make a difference?
		How do you hold your elected officials accountable?
		How do you think about running yourself?
		All of those things are all part of what we try to do to give people the tools and the power to put it in their hands.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Cornelia in Cottonwood, Idaho, Republican.
unidentified		Hi, good morning, everybody.
		You know, I would like to just ask this young lady if she is very grateful and happy that her parents did not abort her.
		You know, over the years since abortion was legalized in America, we have lost 70 million children.
		Thousands and thousands of babies are killed every year.
		And some even so radical that they want it to go up.
		Some governors so radical they want that so-called right to kill all the way up to the time the baby is being born.
		It's just unmatched.
		It's unimaginable how our country has become so calloused.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Cornelia, we'll get a response.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Lauren Leader.
unidentified		So, first of all, I want to just set the record straight on a few things.
		Of course, I'm grateful to be here.
		I'm also grateful that my mother had the choice that she had before I was born to terminate a pregnancy of a fetus that was not going to survive.
		I personally could have died from a miscarriage where I was bleeding for days.
		And if I had not had the opportunity to have what's commonly called a DNC, which is essentially an abortion, I'd be dead.
		There are thousands of women across the country who absolutely want their children, who want to be parents, who are desperate to have their babies,
		but who face life and death decisions in places like Idaho and other states that have extreme bans that prevent life-saving care of women who will die or become infertile or face other catastrophic health crises if they're unable to access. the care that they need if something goes wrong when they want their children.
		There is no question that there are people who, you know, that abortion is a very complicated and emotional issue.
		I deeply relate to people who find it abhorrent and, you know, want to save children.
		I also believe in saving the lives of women that are here.
		And what we've seen with the World Post Dobbs is women dying and facing horrific consequences.
		We've also had 14-year-old girls.
		There's a story of a young girl in Mississippi who was raped.
		She could not access what were the supposed exceptions in the law, and she was forced to have a baby at 14 and have her rapist child.
		Now, we all have different opinions about that, but until very recently, that was a choice that she could make with her family.
		And that's what I believe is that, you know, we should have a choice.
		And obviously, many people feel very differently.
		I think one of the things that's happened since the Dobbs decision is because of these horrific consequences of losing that right, a lot of folks who were, you know, really anti-abortion have come to understand that if the law doesn't allow, you know, for life-saving care, that that's a horrific choice and that we're forcing a set of circumstances that I think most people would not want, which is why even in very conservative states like Ohio and Kentucky and other places that have put abortion rights access on the ballot,
		they've passed and that even conservatives who were otherwise considered themselves pro-life supported those measures because they don't want to see women dying in the parking lots of hospitals.
		So that's the first thing.
		The second thing I just want to say is that I certainly appreciate how horrific it seems, late-term abortion.
		There is nobody who is advocating voluntary late-term abortion.
		But again, I have friends who were carrying non-viable vetuses, meaning babies that had died in their womb, and it would have killed them to have to deliver that child, literally could have killed them.
		So late-term abortion is horrific.
		We all understand it.
		But if it's in service of saving the life of someone who may have other children, who has a family, who has a life, to me, that's not a hard call.
		But look, I mean, this is a very emotional issue.
		It has been at the heart of American politics since 1980, really since, you know, longer.
		I should have said 70.
		So I do understand how people feel about it.
		But, you know, I think there's also, there's a lot of nuance that gets lost in the debate.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Bob's next in Tyler, Texas, a Republican caller.
		Bob, you are talking to Lauren Leder.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Yes, thank you very much for this opportunity.
		I believe that all men and women should be given the opportunity to vote.
		But I believe that those who do not know our laws should not be given that opportunity until they know that we are a republic and not a democracy.
		Anybody that thinks we are a democracy does not know enough about our law and should not be given the chance to vote.
		And in that regard, September 17th is Constitution Week.
		Every school in America is to hold a program on the Constitution.
		That's where we can learn the difference between a republic, a guaranteed republican form, and a democracy, which is chaos.
		Thank you very much for this opportunity.
		Thank you.
		Well, listen, I well, so I don't totally agree, but that's okay.
		Look, I am a believer that Americans need to learn civics.
		And it's actually a huge part of what we do at all in together is that we teach core civics to adults because once people are out of school, they don't often have that opportunity.
		About 70% of Americans could not pass the citizenship test that is required in order for someone to become a naturalized citizen.
		And I find that really heartbreaking.
		You know, I don't agree with having any kind of litmus test for voting.
		So I disagree with that.
		But I do think, you know, we have a real civics crisis in this country.
		Americans don't understand our system and they don't understand how it works.
		And they don't understand the even just some basics about the equal branches, the equal powers of the three branches of government.
		So, you know, 70% of Americans couldn't name a single person that represents them in elected office.
		Most Americans would fail the citizenship test.
		I would love to see that become a national movement and that we really encourage everyone to take the citizenship test to like learn the basics of how our system works.
		It's what we try to do in our programs.
		We love programs like iCivics, which was founded by Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, which is a very intensive civics program that tries to expand civics education in public schools across the country.
		But like there's no question, like kids are not learning some really basic things and most Americans just don't know them.
		And it's very hard to make up that ground in adulthood.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk about tariffs, Lauren Leader, because you have written that the president's tariff policies will impact women.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		How so?
unidentified		So it's important to understand that women are already the majority of Americans in poverty.
		The majority of people on public assistance, the majority of the Americans that are living below the poverty line, excuse me, are women and children, many of whom are working.
		And there are a number of sort of exacerbating factors.
		You know, one is that a lot of the lowest income, lowest wage jobs are jobs that disproportionately employ women.
		So service workers, you know, hospitality, care, all of those fields are very badly paid and disproportionately held by women.
		And then the second piece is that women already, before tariffs, setting that aside, already pay kind of a, it's jokingly called the pink tax, which is that products and services that are marketed towards women are often priced up.
		So you can have two razors.
		You can go check it at CVS.
		You can have two razors.
		It's called the pink tax because it's like there's a pink razor and there's a blue razor.
		The men's razor is a third of the, or whatever, 30% less of a price than the women's razor, which is marketed to women.
		And also women have more needs in terms of what they need to purchase.
		Menstrual products, for instance, women are the ones who do most of the like diaper buying and formula buying.
		So all of those things, women have higher costs, they're making less money to begin with.
		And so when you look at them, the impact of tariffs, which, you know, is heavily going to affect, I mean, it's affecting almost every product and service soon, you know, from cars to, you know, household goods.
		But because women are already at a disadvantage, every incremental increase in expense for them, you know, can drive them further into poverty.
		So, you know, tariffs are going to affect all Americans.
		We're going to start to see those, see that soon.
		You know, I hope that the impact will be blunted.
		I would not wish this on anybody because Americans are already struggling with the cost of living.
		But there's no question that it will be worse for those who are at the lowest income levels, and that is primarily women.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Kathy is in Kansas.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Democratic caller.
unidentified		Hi.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Morning, Kathy.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I just wanted to make a comment on how do you expect America to, when they have a leader like we have, and charge who is so misogynistic, who's been caught on tape saying it's okay to grab women's groin area.
		He's been found guilty of rape and sexual molestation.
		He's committed adultery on all three of his wives.
		And then we have the HEG sex in the office.
		And then we have Don Jr. I don't know.
		I saw it briefly and then they never showed it again.
		When Trump was on the roof of the house, Don Jr. AIs this thing and posts it of Trump throwing after all this happened with the NBA, women in the WNBA, and people throwing sex toys out on the court.
		And then you have Don Jr. showing Donald Trump on the roof with a superimposed dildo he's throwing off.
		And then people admire this.
		This type of acting is admired by men and praised and laughed about.
		How are women ever going to win?
		How is this country ever going to come out ahead with that type of mental attitude amongst men?
		All right.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Lauren Leader?
unidentified		I mean, listen, I have a lot of concerns about what's happening for men and boys in this country and the, you know, glorification of kind of an ultra-macho misogynistic culture.
		I'm very worried about it.
		I've been worried about it for a long time.
		I was frankly worried about it before Trump.
		You know, this is, you know, I don't have any doubt that, you know, the sort of coarseness that the, I mean, you've already summarized a lot of the issues, you know, has an effect on American culture.
		I think we all appreciate that and understand it.
		But we've been in, we've had some crises in this country around men and boys for a long time.
		I mean, part of it is the conditions under which we get to a place where, you know, so many Americans are kind of fine with stuff that, you know, would have been disqualifying.
		I mean, it's so funny because like you think about someone like a Gary Hart, you know, who had an affair and immediately dropped out of the race.
		You know, there were years, most of for most of my lifetime, there were these standards that if you were, you know, not considered to be, you know, ethically inscrutable, that you couldn't run for public office.
		And obviously that's changed.
		So look, I think I'm very worried about those things.
		I also, though, like, I got to tell you, I'm kind of obsessed with Travis and Taylor, not to like get off on a, you know, super internety clicky subject, but, you know, like you've got as much for all the Donald Trumps, like just think about the adulation of, you know, Travis Kelsey.
		And I love him because he is so unthreatened and so respectful of Taylor, who is an absolute superstar, who, you know, is a much bigger deal than he is, much richer than he is.
		And he's totally unthreatened by her.
		And she has been a very active voice on, you know, women's rights and on in politics.
		And, you know, he is right there to support her.
		And so I'm kind of hopeful that actually there's going to be this like, you know, Travis Kelseyization of some of the culture that people will want to emulate him more than maybe some of the other horrible behavior that we see going around.
		Call me naive, but I'm kind of psyched about them for no other reason than that.
		Also, because they're so cute.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Lauren Leader, you just took C-SPAN for a twist there.
unidentified		You can't go five minutes without bringing up.
		But I had like a very well-considered feminist argument for why I love Travis Kelsey.
		All right.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We'll go to Jacqueline at East Elmhurst, New York.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jacqueline.
unidentified		Hi.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		And I'm sorry if I'm a little nervous.
		As someone who is Republican and Eileen Wright, just this is first just an opinion.
		There is no way, at least in my opinion, that I think that Republican women would ever support limiting our voice, our vote as women.
		I just think that that's never going to happen.
		My second kind of a point and just sort of a question is regarding the transgender movement and your organization, or maybe women's organizations in general.
		I feel like it's been a setback for women in many respects because I think even Gloria Steinem in the 70s, I mean, I can't imagine that the support for people who identify as trans women would have been looked at as really being women.
		So I feel like that has really hurt the women's movement in a way.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Jacqueline, let's take your point.
unidentified		Yeah.
		So thanks for that.
		You know, it is really complicated.
		I struggle with it, to be honest.
		I struggle with it because it is such a polarizing issue and because it has created some real problems for the Democrats, you know, the sense that, you know, this tiny, tiny, tiny minority of Americans, that their rights, you know, have become so central.
		And so I do struggle with that.
		And I struggle a bit with the like trans women in sports issue.
		You know, I do relate to why people are so incensed about that.
		On the other hand, you know, I do believe in treating all people with dignity and respect and giving them, you know, all people deserve full rights.
		And if I don't believe that I have the right to impede on anyone else's freedoms.
		And it pains me terribly to see the persecution, you know, of any group in this country.
		And, you know, trans people have a pretty hard road to hoe right now.
		So, you know, I do understand why it's really complicated.
		And look, I went to a women's college and, you know, in the time that I was there, there were, you know, huge debates about whether or not trans women should be allowed in women's colleges.
		A lot of the women's colleges really struggled with that.
		You know, so it's an ongoing issue.
		On the other hand, you know, I have friends who have trans kids.
		You know, you just want these kids, these people to feel loved and respected as humans.
		And anything that does anything to erode that to me feels wrong.
		My last point is you're completely right about the 19th Amendment.
		I don't think there's any chance that the 19th Amendment will be repealed.
		First of all, we have an extremely high bar to changing the American Constitution.
		We make it very hard.
		In fact, we have fewer amendments to our Constitution than almost any other Western nation.
		That's how hard we make it.
		Other countries have like three, four times as many amendments as we do.
		So I'm not saying that I think we're changing it, but I do worry that there's anyone out there that thinks it's acceptable to marginalize, to sort of glorify marginalizing women's rights that way.
		It's just such a fundamental.
		And I think it's worth understanding because it's an undercurrent and it may not be representative.
		I think most Americans would never agree.
		But it is distressing that also people in very high positions of power, like Pete Hegsath, you know, think that's an acceptable point of view.
		I mean, I worry very much about him being in power in running a military that relies enormously on women.
		And by the way, transgender service members who, you know, we have an all-volunteer military that has been extraordinarily high-performing, even with, and maybe especially because of its embrace of diversity and inclusion.
		You know, the end of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, the embrace of transgender service people.
		It is the most, you know, meritocratic organization out there.
		If you can't make it, you can't make it.
		And so repealing the, you know, expelling, you know, honorable transgender service people just seems to me blatantly discriminatory and frankly undermines the strength of our military.
		So anyway, I could keep going on that, but I won't.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, we're out of time.
		Lauren Leder, who's the co-founder and CEO of All In Together, the website is AITogether.org.
		Lauren Leder, thank you for the conversation.
unidentified		Thanks.
		It was great.
		And thanks to all the callers.
		Here's what's ahead as we head into the Labor Day weekend.
		Well, up next, more of C-SPAN's congressional town hall coverage with an event featuring Michigan Democratic Representative Debbie Dingell.
		And then today's United Nations Security Council meeting on the Russian war against Ukraine.
		This follows some of the heaviest bombing by Russia since the war began.
		Later, the Palestinian representative to the United Nations talks about Israeli actions in Gaza.
		And after that, diplomats from the United Kingdom, France, and Germany release their assessment of Iran's nuclear program.
		C-SPAN's Washington Journal, our live forum inviting you to discuss the latest issues in government, politics, and public policy from Washington and across the country.
		Coming up Saturday morning, the president and co-founder of the Institute for the American Worker, Vincent Vernuccio, talks about the Trump administration's approach to labor-related issues.
		Then the co-chair of Small Business for America's Future, Shondell Newsom, on the state of small-scale enterprise in the U.S. C-SPAN's Washington Journal.
		Join in the conversation live at 7 Eastern Saturday morning on C-SPAN.
		C-SPAN Now, our free mobile app or online at c-SPAN.org.
		On Monday, Labor Day, watch C-SPAN for an all-day congressional town hall marathon.
		Hear from lawmakers directly as they discuss their legislative priorities, comment on recent actions by the Trump administration, and address questions and concerns raised by constituents.

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