CSPAN - Washington Journal 08/27/2025

All Episodes

Previous Next

Aug. 27, 2025 06:59-10:07 - CSPAN

03:07:45

Washington Journal 08/27/2025

Participants

Main

donald j trump

admin 08:52

mimi geerges

cspan 35:33

Appearances

brian lamb

cspan 00:46

jason riley

00:32

jb pritzker

d 01:18

larry nichols

00:32

mark warner

sen/d 01:06

sean duffy

admin 02:12

Clips

al green

rep/d 00:04

ana cabrera

msnow 00:04

david k rehbein

00:09

jon rappoport

00:05

justice neil gorsuch

scotus 00:18

patty murray

sen/d 00:09

ted gunderson

00:22

ted nugent

00:12

waylon ben livingston

00:12

Callers

bob in new york

callers 00:40

donna in texas

callers 00:19

donna in west virginia

callers 00:04

mike in chicago

callers 00:06

rich in new jersey

callers 00:04

vance in new york

callers 00:13

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Summer meeting with discussions about fundraising, strategies to counter Trump administration policies, and how to regain control of Congress.
		You can also watch live coverage on the C-SPAN Now app or online at C-SPAN.org.
		C-SPAN, Democracy Unfiltered.
		We're funded by these television companies and more, including WOW.
		The world has changed.
		Today, a fast, reliable internet connection is something no one can live without.
		So WOW is there for our customers with speed, reliability, value, and choice.
		Now more than ever, it all starts with great internet.
		Wow.
		WOW supports C-SPAN as a public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front-row seat to democracy.
		Coming up on C-SPAN's Washington Journal, we'll take your calls and comments live.
		Then a discussion about U.S. policy in the Middle East, including the Israel-Hamas conflict and the Trump administration's efforts to bring an end to the war with Nadia Bilbazi Charters of Al-Arabiya TV and Jacob Maggott of The Times of Israel.
		Then Lisa Lepettis, a former prosecutor and policy director for criminal justice and civil liberties at the R Street Institute on cashless bail and pre-trial justice reforms.
		WASHINGTON JOURNAL STARTS NOW. GOOD MORNING.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		It's Wednesday, August 25th.
		It's seven months into President Trump's second term, and new polling has just come out on the president's job approval ratings.
		So this morning, we're asking this question.
		Is President Trump's second term what you expected?
		Are you pleasantly surprised?
		Or is it worse than you thought it would be?
		Be specific on the particular policies that have surprised you.
		Here's how to reach us.
		Republicans, 202748-8001.
		Democrats, 202-748-8000.
		And Independents, 202-748-8002.
		You can send a text to 202-748-8003.
		Include your first name in your city-state.
		You can also post your comments on social media, facebook.com slash C-SPAN and X at C-SPANWJ.
		Welcome to today's Washington Journal.
		We'll start with those polls.
		This is Gallup, and this just came out with the headline, Trump Ratings and U.S. Mood Stay Tepid in August.
		Here are the highlights.
		Trump's job approval rating is 40% in August.
		Support for his performance on the economy and foreign policy also flat.
		And it says Americans remain dour about economies, health, and direction.
		Here it is visually over time.
		So here this goes back to just before February 2025.
		The green is the overall job approval rating.
		Here it is at 40 now.
		The economy is the blue line here, and foreign affairs is this dotted line.
		Another poll that just came out is YouGov, and youGov says two-thirds of Americans have strong feelings about Donald Trump, and most of them are negative.
		Here it is.
		Here's the data behind that.
		So the question, do you approve or disapprove of the way Donald Trump is handling his job as president?
		Among all U.S. adult citizens that were surveyed, 41% say they strongly or somewhat approve.
		The red here is strongly or somewhat disapprove at 56%.
		Now, break that out by party ID.
		Democrats are at 3% approval, 96% disapproval.
		Republicans, 88% approve, 10% disapprove.
		And Independents, it's at 32% approval rating and 62% disapproval.
		By age, those with the lowest approval for President Trump are the youngest.
		These are the 18 to 29-year-olds at 30%.
		Those with the highest approval rating for President Trump is the middle-aged.
		It's 45 to 64.
		That's at 49%.
		Breaking it out by gender, men have a higher opinion of President Trump at 48% compared to 35% for women.
		And by race, white is at 50%, black, 15% approval, and Hispanic, 33% approval.
		And we are taking your calls, so we want you to weigh in on that.
		And it's about President Trump's second term, and is it what you have expected?
		Let's hear from the President during his cabinet meeting yesterday talking about what he has done to improve the lives of Americans.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		The wages for blue-collar workers are now rising at the fastest rate in 60 years, which is so important to all of us around this table.
		The average American worker is already seeing a $500 wage increase this year, and there's no inflation because there's been decreases, tremendous decreases, with thanks to Doug and Chris and some of the people, the great job they've done with energy.
		Thank you very much.
		And Chris, thank you very much.
		I see you're down close to $60 a barrel, and you'll be breaking that pretty soon.
		And that has a huge impact.
		So we have groceries are down.
		Energy is way down.
		Energy is way down.
		It was $4 and $5 for a gallon of gas.
		Think of that, for gasoline.
		And now it's probably $2.25.
		There are some places it's $2.
		It's even, it broke $2 at a couple of locations in the South.
		In places like California, where they charge such high taxes, it's higher, but it's still much lower than what it was a year ago.
		So energy is way down.
		Groceries are way down.
		Eggs are way down.
		Thank you very much, Madam Secretary.
		You've done a great job.
		Appreciate it.
		When we came in, the eggs were through the roof.
		They were four times higher than they've ever been.
		And my first question from you people, what are you going to do with eggs?
		I said, what's the problem with eggs?
		That was caused by Biden or whoever was operating the auto pen actually cost that I guess because I don't think he knew too much about eggs.
		Factories are booming compared to before I took office.
		Domestic auto production is going to be so thrilling in two years when you see the numbers.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So that's the president talking about his accomplishments the first seven months in office.
		We want to hear from you and we'll start with Russell who is in Louisiana.
		Republican.
		Hi, Russell.
unidentified		Hey, good morning.
		Good morning.
		I really think that we're getting too anxious with the economy.
		I think it's going to take time.
		That's not something that's going to that's going to flip real quick to the good.
		I mean, we've been struggling our whole lives in a sense.
		Just living life.
		Life is hard.
		And as far as the egg concerns, I never heard nobody say anything about the bird flu.
		From what I understood, when these egg prices were up ridiculously, it was due to the bird flu.
		So prices did go up.
		I don't even hear my president say anything about the reasoning for it, the eggs going up and everything.
		And one coming, I'd like some Democrat callers to call in and tell me some things that they think Trump did good so far in the past term and this term, because all I hear is negative, negative, negative.
		As American citizens, we have rights.
		Our civil rights cannot be violated.
		That's the law.
		These people that come in illegally, I don't understand how can you say, like Garcia, we violated his right.
		He has rights.
		He's an illegal immigrant.
		He's not an American citizen.
		He broke the law when he came here illegal.
		And at that point, he does not have the same rights that you and I have, Miss.
		They really don't.
		I'd like to vote.
		Lady from South Carolina called in, I believe it was yesterday, and she was all on his bandwagon talking about this, that, this, that.
		They cleaned him up real nice, shaved him, put him in some nice clothes for his television appearances and everything.
		You can't turn a whore into a housewife.
		I'm sorry.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Sean is a Democrat in Wisconsin.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Sean.
unidentified		Hey, good morning.
unidentified		Thank you for taking my call.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You're welcome.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Go right ahead.
unidentified		I would directly answer my friend from Louisiana and say one good thing I think Trump did is to channel the righteous anger at the way large corporations and large bureaucratic government institutions treat individual people.
		But other than that, he's pretty much done very little right, in my opinion.
		I guess just three things real quick I'd like to touch on.
		One, economically speaking, I mean, the tariffs.
		Are you kidding me?
		Like, since when are conservatives for that?
		I mean, I am a Democrat, but I have a pretty conservative sensibility.
		I'm a business person.
		I understand business.
		This isn't normal.
		This isn't good.
		It's not healthy.
		Owning 10% of Intel, what is up with that?
		Since when do we like that if we have a libertarian or conservative mindset about business?
		It's just incomprehensible to me.
		Security?
		What literally a red carpet for Vladimir Putin, who's a war criminal?
		What are we doing?
		Whose side are we on here in America?
		It's just unbelievable.
		Marco Rubio, where's your soul?
		You know, what happened here?
		And security here at home.
		I mean, troops in the streets, now troops in the streets with guns.
		Now we're going to bring that into other American cities.
		I would just really ask my conservative brothers and sisters, and I'm very serious, we're angry about what happened here in this country, and I'm angry about it too, but this is not the solution.
		This is not healthy, and this is not America.
		And I would ask you to stand up with me and just reject this.
		It's disgusting.
		Thank you.
		I appreciate you taking my call.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Sean.
		And this is Jesse in Port Ritchie, Florida, Independent Line.
		Good morning, Jesse.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I'm just, my concern is where he's talking about these food prices and gas prices.
		I don't know what state he lives in, or well, I do, or what grocery store he goes to, but the gas here is over $3 a gallon.
		I don't know where he's getting $2 and something.
		And you can't buy a steak unless you pay it $32.
		And that's all I wanted to say.
		Thank you so much.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Well, regarding the economy, here is Virginia Democratic Senator Mark Warner criticizing President Trump for firing or at least attempting to fire the Federal Reserve Board member Lisa Cook.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		He made these comments on X yesterday.
unidentified		Back out on the road in Danville, Virginia this morning.
mark warner ▲ ● ▼		But the big news overnight is Donald Trump, who clearly has no respect for the Constitution or separation of powers, is now trying to take over the Federal Reserve Bank by trying to fire, purely based on a charge with no evidence, one of the Federal Reserve board members, Lisa Cook, who happens to be also the first African-American woman ever on the Federal Reserve.
unidentified		You may say, why does this make any difference?
mark warner ▲ ● ▼		Well, if the Fed's independence is compromised, the ability to set interest rates, the ability to have an objective view of our economy will be taken up by Trump as well.
unidentified		This firing would give him a majority of the Federal Reserve board members.
mark warner ▲ ● ▼		We know he's been after the Federal Reserve Chair, Jay Powell, for ages, and a president's never fired a Federal Reserve governor.
		Pretty here where there's a charge made, but no evidence has been presented.
		So it'll be interesting to see whether our friends in the business community, who always say they want to protect the independence of the Federal Reserve, will have the courage to stand up and push back.
unidentified		Well, I'll see.
unidentified		Stay tuned.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		It's Virginia Senator Mark Warner, and we got some posts from Facebook.
		Charlie says this.
		He promised to lower crime, energize the economy, close the borders, deport illegal criminals, increase national pride in our country, and beef up our military.
		In the eight months he has been in office.
		He has worked every day for the American people.
		He has made progress on each of his goals.
		He has not ended Biden's two wars yet, but has worked hard in getting that done.
		And Carl says, the second Trump administration has exceeded my expectations in a good way.
		He's an energy powerhouse working for America and all its citizens.
		Only racist, sexist people have problems with his actions.
		From elite universities to blue states, where they demand some citizens be given and get out of jail card and allow men to compete in sports as women.
		And Dan says this, his second term is pretty much what I suspected.
		He promised to end wars and lower prices, and I knew he was just talking.
		He did secure the border, and I expected he would.
		I also expected he would pardon the January 6th violent trespassers of the Capitol, and he has.
		It's funny, he signed executive order on flag desecrators after pardoning the violent January 6th flag desecrators.
		You can send your comments on Facebook or on X or by text, or you can call us like Robin Michigan Independent Line.
		Hi, Rob.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I think what surprised me the most and I've enjoyed is the administration's push on what are executive powers.
		It's been 250 years since we've been a country, and it's time for the Supreme Court to review and help clarify where those division of lines between legislative, executive, and judicial lie.
		And they're doing that.
		Certainly, I think there's evidence that the executive powers need to be limited in some areas, and they've done that.
		They need to be told that the president has certain powers.
		They've not said President Trump has powers.
		They've said the President of the United States.
		Remember, Trump is temporary help.
		He's got, what, three and a half years to go.
		But those lines and those decisions are going to help us decide and determine where legislative authority begins and ends and where the judicial authority begins and ends.
		You know, they've had to chastise some lower courts for not following the constitutional decisions of the Supreme Court.
		So I think it's time we had that clarification, and I enjoy that part of it.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And who do you think should have that discussion?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And where do you think it's going to go?
unidentified		Well, I hope that discussion can continues in that I like the idea of bringing cases before the Supreme Court where you find out that states' rights are limited.
		They cannot violate freedom of religion, as they tried to do in Colorado.
		The President's rights are limited.
		You cannot appropriate dollars that Congress has not done just by declaring it to be so.
		And judicial rights are limited because the lower courts can't say, well, yes, the Supreme Court decided this, but I don't agree, so I'll ignore that.
		That's one of the better things that's coming out of this administration.
		Certainly, the President is going to make mistakes he already has.
		But it's refreshing to see that they're going to say, let's revisit this and decide, okay, who's got what authority?
		Well, the abolition of the Chevrolet decision, I think, was excellent when you found government agencies deciding, well, we're going to mandate people to pay government agents to ride on their boats for fishing.
		Certainly a violation of the Constitution.
		And that was a 9-0 decision.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Rob.
		Here's Tina, Democrat in Richmond, Virginia.
		Hi, Tina.
unidentified		Hi.
		I am very disgusted with Trump.
		First of all, when I just heard him, because I don't even look, when he's on TV, I change the channel.
		But I was just listening to him when you all put it on, and he's talking about, for example, the eggs.
		I don't know where he's buying eggs that is down low because here in Virginia, and Mark Warner is my representative.
		How in the world, who takes a toll?
		I am 70 years old, and I do not see anything better.
		Not only for America, I don't even see anything better for black people.
		Look what he's doing in Washington, D.C.
		It seems that every state that he's trying to put in the military, why does that say in the Constitution that he has a right to do that?
		Please explain that to me, or somebody that can explain that to me.
		What right do he have to put all these military people, making them come in, and they have to stand guard?
		And what I've just heard, I think that he's trying to even bring people now.
		He and that crazy governor of ours here in Richmond, they're trying to bring in troops down here.
		What the heck is going on?
		I am so disgusted with America.
		If I could move out and go to another country, believe you me, I will and I would.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And here's Cheryl in California, Independent Line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Cheryl.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		What I want to say is this: anybody who is paying attention to what Donald Trump is doing knows that this man is evil.
		Okay?
		As far as his second term versus his first term, he's only picking up where he left off.
		And, you know, if you go back to his first term, everything was about the deficit.
		You know, they were talking about the Democrats, you know, running up the deficit.
		But look what the deficit was when he left office.
		And now you don't hear any Republican talking about the deficit.
		You know, I wish you would put that deficit clock up so everybody can see how he's running up the deficit.
		You know, it's one of the things that people don't understand is any laws that are made, it takes time for them to feel the effect of it.
		Now, when they pass this big, beautiful bill, you know, hey, they haven't felt the effects of it yet.
		But if you open up your eyes and you just look at what climate change is doing to America right now, he has not said one word about any of these states who are experienced the devastation of climate change.
		He has set back, dismantled the USAD, USAID.
		People are starving.
		You know, what kind of America are we living in?
		What is it to profit the world and lose your soul?
		Because that is what is happening in America.
		You know, we are losing our soul on what we used to stand for.
		One country, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all under God.
		And if you think God is in this, you better think twice and get on your knees and pray.
		Because he says you either hot or you're cold.
		It ain't no middle ground.
		And Trump is not of God.
		Thank you for taking my comments.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And Cheryl, you mentioned the debt clock.
		Here it is on your screen.
		It's at 37 over 37 trillion.
		And if you'd like to look at that, it's at usdebtclock.org.
		And you can take a look at that.
		And here is Gerald, Cincinnati.
		Democrat, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I'd like to say that Trump is just exaggerating and that he is saying, I see people saying that the prices is going down.
		I heard three or four people saying that the prices is excessive.
		And I'm in Cincinnati, and the prices here is the same.
		The gas is high, the eggs hasn't come down, and everything else is excessively high.
		I'd just like to say, quit telling lies because everybody knows that it is not right.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And a couple of posts for, this is Greg in Cleveland, Ohio on text.
		Rhetoric versus reality.
		Grocery prices are increasing.
		Gas prices are only 10 cents less than this time last year.
		My electric bill has doubled.
		Thousands of federal workers have been laid off.
		Sure, the border is closed, but it has not affected my life whatsoever.
		Republicans constantly complained for the past four years about prices.
		Now that conversation has evaporated since January 20th.
		And this is what Barb in Long Grove, Illinois says.
		President Trump's second term is not what I expected.
		Federal workforce cutbacks and trade tariff wars have created too much uncertainty and have not helped to reduce the cost of living for average citizens.
		And this is Bob on Facebook.
		As expected, my only surprise was how quickly he closed the border.
		I thought it would take longer because of Democrat obstruction, but I guess it was true.
		All we needed was a new president, not new legislation.
		Take a look at this from the New York Times.
		It says this.
		It says, in Trump's second term, far-right agenda enters the mainstream.
		The article starts with, during President Trump's first term in the White House, right-wing extremists like the Proud Boys were on the streets weekend after weekend raising their voices and oftentimes their fists about issues such as immigration, the squelching of conservative speech, and the removal of Confederate-era statues.
		But in the first seven months of Mr. Trump's second term, there has been a conspicuous absence of far-right demonstrations.
		And that, some leaders of the movement say, is because the president has effectively adopted their agenda.
		This is a quote by Enrique Tario, who's the chairman of the Proud Boys.
		Quote, things we were doing and talking about in 2017 that were taboo, they're no longer taboo.
		They're mainstream now.
		Honestly, what do we have to complain about these days?
		And finally, it says, whether it is dismantling diversity programs, complaining about anti-white bias in museums, or simply promoting an aura of authoritarian nationalism, Mr. Trump has embraced an array of far-right views and talking points in ways that have delighted many right-wing activists who have long supported those ideas.
		That's in the New York Times.
		If you want to read the rest of that article, let's hear more from the president during his cabinet meeting yesterday where he talked about his foreign policy efforts.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I want to see that deal end.
		It's very, very serious what I have in mind if I have to do it.
		But I want to see it end.
		I think that in many ways he's there.
		Sometimes he'll be there and Zelensky won't be there.
		You know, it's like, who do we have today?
		I got to get them both at the same time.
		But I want to have it end.
		We have economic sanctions.
		I'm talking about economic because we're not going to get into a world war.
		I'll tell you what, in my opinion, if I didn't win this race, Ukraine could have ended up in a world war.
		We're not going to end up in a world war anymore, but it would have ended up possibly in a world war.
		That would have been a, they were ready to trot.
		But just like India and Pakistan were going to end up in a nuclear war if I didn't stop them.
		You know, it's sort of strange.
		I saw they were fighting.
		Then I saw seven jets were shot down.
		I said, that's not good.
		That's a lot of jets.
		You know, $150 million planes were shot down.
		A lot of them, seven, maybe more than that.
		They didn't even report the real number.
		And I'm talking to a very terrific man, Modi of India.
		They say, what's going on with you in Pakistan?
		Then I'm talking to Pakistan on trade.
		I said, what's going on with you in India?
		And the hatred was tremendous.
		Now, this has been going on for a hell of a long time.
		Like sometimes with different names for hundreds of years.
		But I said, what's going on?
		I said, I don't want to make a trade deal.
		No, no, no, we want to make a trade deal.
		I said, no, no, I don't want to make a trade deal with you.
		You're going to have a nuclear war.
		You guys are going to end up in a nuclear war.
		And that was very important to them.
		I said, call me back tomorrow, but we're not going to do any deals with you.
		Or we're going to put tariffs on you that are so high.
		You were there, Howard, right?
		You're going to put tariffs on you that was so high, I don't give a damn.
		Your head's going to spin.
		You're not going to end up in a war.
		Within about five hours, it was done.
		It was done.
		Maybe it starts again.
unidentified		I don't know.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so, but I'll stop it if it does.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		We can't let these things happen.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		That was yesterday at a cabinet meeting, and we're asking the question, is President Trump's second term what you expected?
		This is Patrick calling us from Madison, Connecticut, Republican.
		Hi, Patrick.
unidentified		Hi, how are you?
		Excuse me.
		I'd like to make a couple of comments about Trump administration and that truck accident because I'm a commercial truck driver.
		I drive canker trucks.
		I have a hazmat tanker endorsement, which involves an FBI background check.
		I have a transportation clearance, which is called the TWICARD, which involves another FBI Homeland Security background check.
		I carry propane, heating oil, gasoline, and diesel fuel.
		There's two different types of tanker trucks involved in that, and you have to have a lot of training for both.
		The other thing I think is the economy is doing really well.
		I make really good money.
		I'm 68 years old.
		I work full-time.
		I'm on vacation right now.
		And I can tell that a lot of your callers calling in are probably Democrats because they don't have a job and they should be working right now, but they're not because they're probably too lazy.
		But the other thing is, I got no taxes on unemployment.
		I mean, on my Social Security coming up, and no taxes on my overtime, which is going to put a lot more money in my pocket.
		If I work a Saturday, I'll make $400 to $500 on a Saturday.
		And I don't see any of that.
		It's all income tax.
		And I'm going to save a lot of money with this president and his very, very good ideas.
		And another thing is straightening up these Democrat-run cities that are crime is crazy.
		I got to drive through these cities.
		I know what's going on.
		I see all these druggies out there all the time on my way to the terminal to load up.
donna in west virginia ▲ ● ▼		They got their cardboard signs, druggies, police cars all over the place.
unidentified		And I know they're lying about the crime statistics.
		And I hope they redistrict some of the voting areas in Connecticut so Republicans, which are gaining in numbers, we can have some kind of a say what's going on in this crazy state.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And Patrick, I just want to make sure you realize about you.
		You are correct about no tax on overtime, but no tax on Social Security.
		That has not, that is not in the bill that was signed.
		So that still is the case.
		Here's Marvin, Arizona, Independent Line.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, Marvin.
		You're on the air.
		Yep.
unidentified		I was wanting to.
		Trump's first term, he said that he was his army.
		And then also his plane that he flew in when they were smoking and is now the black plane.
		Isn't that, I believe, Jeffrey Epstein's former plane?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What plane are you talking about?
unidentified		His plane, the black plane that he has now?
unidentified		It used to be white when he first in his first term.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Are you talking about Air Force One?
unidentified		No, his personal plane.
unidentified		It used to be Jeffrey Epstein's plane.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not familiar, but where did you get that information about that being Jeffrey Epstein's plane?
unidentified		I read it somewhere.
unidentified		I read it somewhere, but it used to be his.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You don't remember where, Marvin?
unidentified		No, no, not offhand.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So what did you think about how the second term is playing out so far, the first seven months?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Is it what you expected?
unidentified		No.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Why?
unidentified		Because I used to watch Howard Stearns, so I've heard all of it.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Eddie in Tampa, Florida, Independent Line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Eddie.
unidentified		Good morning.
		So Trump's second term, nothing he said it would be.
		I mean, there is things that he's doing.
		For example, like one of the callers said, you know, his overtime isn't getting taxed, which my father's in the same boat.
		It's amazing.
		But at the same time, there's a lot of things going on.
		For example, how deeply embedded APEC is in the direction this country is going in, you know, where we're complicit to a slew of crimes that are being committed.
		But, you know, neither here nor there.
		How do we get our country back from this foreign government?
		We need to think about that, all of us.
		Independent, Democrat, Republicans, black, white, Muslim, Christians, doesn't matter.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		From what foreign government, Eddie?
unidentified		Israel.
unidentified		Israel.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So is what President Trump has been doing vis-a-vis Israel what you expected for the second term?
unidentified		No, not at all.
		Not at all.
		Why?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What's the difference?
unidentified		Well, he literally said that he was going to expose the swamp, and he just got swallowed into it.
		Think about that.
		I mean, let's clearly think about the things that he literally said and that are happening and doing.
		It saddens me, you know.
		It's, you know, you look at how the idea of just clearly, clearly just murdering these people.
		How the hell can people with slingshots?
		I mean, I get it.
		The Hamas is probably embedded.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So, Eddie, we are actually going to talk about that in our next segment.
		So, make sure you stay with us for that, starting at 8 Eastern.
		I think you'll enjoy that segment with two journalists from the region.
		Here's Maurice, Portage, Michigan, Independent Line.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
bob in new york ▲ ● ▼		I've been listening to C-SPAN probably now for eight years, I guess.
bob in new york ▲ ● ▼		And the thing that really irritates me is you pretend to be impartial, but you're not.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So, Maurice, stay with us on this topic right now about President Trump's second term.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Is it what you expected?
unidentified		It's what I hoped for, yes.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Okay, tell me about certain policies that you are happy with.
bob in new york ▲ ● ▼		Well, for one thing, he's getting us off the charity to everything in Europe.
unidentified		We're no longer giving money to them for doing nothing.
bob in new york ▲ ● ▼		That's a major difference.
unidentified		Our foreign policy is suddenly something that takes care of us.
bob in new york ▲ ● ▼		That person they had in charge, Winkin, blink, and then not, he was out to lunch full-time and he defended his inability.
unidentified		It was a joke.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And this is Jonathan, Maryland, Independent Line.
		Good morning, Jonathan.
unidentified		Good morning.
		So a couple things.
		First of all, thank you for C-SPAN.
		I appreciate you guys.
		And I thank you for what you do.
		One recommendation I would like for you guys just is to maybe have maybe one day a month or one day a week, having an open forum early morning conversation.
		That way it's not on one subject.
		People can kind of voice their opinions on any topic that would be interesting.
		You mean on this particular topic?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What are you talking about for the first hour, Jonathan?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Because we do have open forum later in the program.
unidentified		Oh, really?
		Okay.
		Well, I didn't know that.
		So thank you.
		But going on to Donald Trump and his term, second term, is the issue that I have is that, you know, I voted for him and I was expecting a little bit more out of his second term.
		He did get a really good team in place with RFK Jr. and then Elon Musk with Doge, but Elon kind of he went overboard there.
		I didn't like what he did with the federal employees, you know, taking the chainsaw up on stage and acting like he was going to act.
		I thought that was a little much.
		And, you know, it's people's lives that you're dealing with.
		So I thought that was a little much.
		And Vivek Ramaswamy, he was supposed to be part of Doge, and he would have kind of kept it in my belief.
		You know, I believe that he would have kept it a little bit more congressional.
		He would have kind of taken more of a congressional approach to it and make sure everything was codified instead of just offering people buyouts.
		But in addition, as far as immigration goes, I would appreciate, you know, I recently read somewhere that, you know, now they're going to, I think Trump is going to, I think they're going to target, ISIS is going to target immigrants with DUIs.
		I think that's a little much.
		I think what the Republicans are more concerned with are getting the immigrants that came over during the last administration out of the country.
		And the reason why is because those immigrants are going to be used by the Democratic Party for votes.
		So they're going to use those for votes.
		And that was very apparent in the last election.
		So I think that's what, you know, yeah, we're worried about the criminals, A, but we really need to get everybody out.
		And we really need to set up a better program for immigrants to filter into the country.
		Maybe we can set up a MEPS down at the border and on the northern border to allow people to filter in better and actually serve their country, either state and local governments or federal governments, and then allow them to make money to send back home and allow them to contribute to the country and learn the language.
		That would be more of an ideal plan, right?
		As far as the economy, I mean, I think what he's doing with tariffs, it's tough.
		It's a tough economy.
		We're all interdependent, all the countries, and then we're not working together.
		And it sucks.
		What I'm really concerned is about, I'm concerned about losing freedoms.
		Doge, you know, with not Doge, but coin, cryptocurrency, and things like that.
		If we allow crypto to be our main currency, we set ourselves up to be controlled by the government.
		It'll be too easy for them to shut off the dollar.
		You go to, next thing you know, you're going to McDonald's and you can't earn a burger because you're overweight.
		You know what I mean?
		And that's way down.
		That's very, you know, exaggerated.
		But that could be a very real future with AI and how easy it will be to monitor everybody.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		People need to think about these things.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jonathan.
		Well, let's take a look at Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker.
		He spoke on Monday about the potential of National Guard troops being sent to Chicago.
jb pritzker ▲ ● ▼		What President Trump is doing is unprecedented and unwarranted.
unidentified		It is illegal.
unidentified		It is unconstitutional.
jb pritzker ▲ ● ▼		It is un-American.
jb pritzker ▲ ● ▼		No one from the White House or the executive branch has reached out to me or to the mayor.
unidentified		No one has reached out to our staffs.
jb pritzker ▲ ● ▼		No effort has been made to coordinate or to ask for our assistance in identifying any actions that might be helpful to us.
unidentified		Local law enforcement has not been contacted.
		We have made no requests for federal intervention.
		None.
		We found out what Donald Trump was planning the same way that all of you did.
jb pritzker ▲ ● ▼		We read a story in the Washington Post.
jb pritzker ▲ ● ▼		If this was really about fighting crime and making the streets safe, what possible justification could the White House have for planning such an exceptional action without any conversations or consultations with the governor, the mayor, or the police?
unidentified		Let me answer that question.
jb pritzker ▲ ● ▼		This is not about fighting crime.
		This is about Donald Trump searching for any justification to deploy the military in a blue city, in a blue state, to try and intimidate his political rivals.
		This is about the President of the United States and his complicit lackey, Stephen Miller, searching for ways to lay the groundwork to circumvent our democracy, militarize our cities, and end elections.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		We're asking the question: Is President Trump's second term what you expected?
		And checking in here on Facebook, Ron says this: Exceeding my wildest hopes, just better and better every day.
		Every morning is like a new Christmas morning with shiny new gifts delivered by Santa Trump, MAGA forever.
		And Jessica says this: I expected it to be horrible.
		It's worse than I expected.
		And yet, the thing that shocks me more is how many people support the dismantling of America and turn a blind eye to atrocities.
		If a Dem did any one thing he does on any day of the week, it would be a news cycle for years.
		It's Watergate every day.
		Meanwhile, it doesn't even make a blip.
		I'm exhausted.
		For those who are about to come for me, I'm not responding.
		Hope you get everything you voted for.
		And on X, Redford says this: He's doing great, excellent cabinet.
		He secured the border and is deporting illegals.
		The economy has improved.
		Prices are coming down.
		Tariffs have worked.
		Mexico and Canada are falling in line.
		Iran's on the ropes.
		NATO is stronger.
		Negotiations with Russia, Ukraine.
		Biden?
		Huh.
		Let's go back to the phones.
		Matt, Fort Mills, South Carolina, Republican.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What do you think, Matt?
unidentified		I think this is above and beyond anything I expected.
		Mistakes are being made.
		Some mistakes are being made.
		They're small.
		But overall, I'm very impressed with how much has been done in such a short period of time.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And what specifically has impressed you the most, Matt?
vance in new york ▲ ● ▼		I think in general, what Trump is doing is what you guys are doing, and it's pointing out how ignorant a good part of America is and how informed another part of America is.
unidentified		Your show, you should have far more Democrats on because it really does help the Republican Party.
unidentified		Okay.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Doug, Fairfax, South Dakota, Democrat.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Doug.
unidentified		Yeah, good morning, Mimi.
		I got a couple things I'd like to say.
		Trump's doing everything I kind of expect to turn us into a third world country, I'd say.
ted gunderson ▲ ● ▼		But on that Epstein deal, doesn't it sound kind of funny that Epstein hired that one girl from Trump working in his spa, and she's underage?
ted gunderson ▲ ● ▼		Why was an underage girl working in a spa where old men are running around about half dressed all the time?
unidentified		I just can't understand that.
unidentified		And what was she doing there?
ted gunderson ▲ ● ▼		And then on Israel, I think that's anymore.
unidentified		They don't plan on the two-state situation over there between Huckabee and Trump and everything else they want for the paradise again.
		And there's nothing that I've ever seen Israel really be when they do something, they say they're going to investigate it.
		What have they really come up with?
		I mean, all the way through Biden, which got $5 million from Israel.
		And then you got Ruby Old How, he got, I think, a million bucks.
		If you start checking in all the money these guys are getting from Israel, I can understand why they go with Israel all the way.
		And then they turned 10 reports, killed 10 reporters in the last, what, two weeks or whatever?
		And every day, these people go try to get their star with them yet.
		They try to get a lot of people.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So, Doug, has it been?
		I mean, so what do you think as far as how President Trump has handled the Israel-Gaza war?
		And is it what you expected?
unidentified		Yeah, that's what I expected because he's just going to let them do whatever they want.
		They're slaughtering them people over there.
		And you got Huckabee and them guys.
		They lie about it.
		The only way you're ever going to get anything true out of these guys is they hook them up to a polygraph.
		And that's what these reporters should ask Trump about Epstein, even.
		If you take a polygraph, what we're Epstein, that's only why we're going to find out.
		And Israel, they're just going to slaughter them people.
		And it's just not right.
		And all you people that when you go knock on heaven's door, I hope he sends you people to hell that just wants.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Sorry, Doug.
		Here's Clyde, Queens, New York, Independent Line.
		Good morning, Clyde.
unidentified		Well, hello.
		Good morning.
		Yeah.
		We black people predicted this.
		All you had to do was read Project 2025.
		It was right there.
		Heritage Foundation, petal to the metal.
		Hispanics tried to tell them.
		And look what's happening.
		And also, all black people already know.
		With this martial law, he's been trying to egg us on to come out and protest.
		If you haven't noticed, we haven't been out there.
		And we're not coming out until November next year.
		So he's getting a little frustrated right now.
		And so he's just attacking the cities where the black people are.
		And it's and amazingly, none of the black cities have the highest crime rates.
rich in new jersey ▲ ● ▼		It's all the red states where the white people are.
unidentified		So we need to know what's happening.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So has that surprised you the most?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Is that what were you not expecting the National Guard troops to be deployed in D.C. and Los Angeles and things like that?
unidentified		No, we knew it.
		Black people already knew it.
		We look on Facebook and YouTube.
		We're all over Facebook and YouTube saying, guess what's coming next?
		And we're laughing about it because we warned everybody that this was going to be a totalitarian takeover.
		And the Heritage Foundation has been egging to do this thing.
		And that Stephen Miller, he's a demon.
		And we're just waiting for our chance to get back in voting.
		If we can vote.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Clyde.
		Well, let's take a look at a recent interview on MSNBC.
		Texas Democrat Joaquin Castro discussed the recent Justice Department raids on John Bolton's house and his office.
		Here he is.
unidentified		He's weaponizing the government to go after people that he disagrees with and that have been critical of him.
		And a few of the ways that he's done that is that he's gotten people appointed to his cabinet who, first of all, it's the most unqualified cabinet in American history.
		But he's gotten people who will never tell him no, people who will only do exactly what he wants them to do.
		And then he goes and fires other people like the director of the NSA, Lieutenant General Cruz, recently of the DIA.
		So these people that are career military or intelligence professionals who are trying to provide basically an objective analysis on things, he fires them because he doesn't want experts.
		He wants enablers.
		He wants sycophants.
		And we see that over and over again.
		Same thing when he fired the person that headed the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
		He wants somebody that's going to contribute to his narrative and his story and make sure that he's always right.
ana cabrera ▲ ● ▼		He claims it's about ending the weaponization of the government.
unidentified		Well, that's not the case at all.
		I mean, you can just see what's going on in terms of who they're prosecuting, who he's going after, how he's basically behaving, how he's using the federal government, and not just on this, but putting ICE agents on the street with no warrant in masks, not identifying themselves, snatching people off the street, now occupying American cities, Washington, D.C., and threatening to occupy more American cities.
		These are the actions of somebody who is aspiring to be a dictator.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What do you think about that?
		The question is, is President Trump's second term what you expected?
		And let's hear from Al, who's in Plymouth, Massachusetts, Republican.
unidentified		Hi, Al.
		You talk to me a dictatorship because we're going to go advance at the next election.
		I mean, Trump could come out with an announcement that he's going to find a cure for cancer, and Democrats are going to say it's going to eliminate jobs.
		There's not one thing that this president does right in their eyes.
		Eggs were up.
		Tariffs were going to crash the market.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So, Al, let's talk about what President Trump actually did.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So, what are you doing?
unidentified		He has exceeded in six months.
		He has exceeded and exposed it.
		Exactly.
		He has exposed the corrupt nature of D.C. In six months, he's gotten more done that's been done in 60 years.
		I was just recently near D.C.
		I will not go into D.C.
		It's 100% statistic when it's you.
		We don't base going out to dinner at night in D.C. Because even if the statistics did drop, you base it on that it could be you that gets killed.
		So, we avoid D.C.
		So, you're going to see things change in D.C.
		And the Democrats don't like that because it shows their inept failure since the 1960s in these cities.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So, you're in favor of the National Guard being put in Washington?
unidentified		In favor of law enforcement, these are the same folks that wanted to defund the police.
		So, of course, you need this within these cities.
		D.C., most of the murders in Chicago are black folks, 90% of them.
		So, Donald Trump cares about black lives for those that never even voted for him.
		They will never vote for him, but he's trying to help them.
		Well, let's politics follow the science, follow the political science of the Democrats.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Well, Chicago is one of those cities that the president is saying that he will put National Guard troops.
		So this is Bernie, who's calling from Chicago, Independent.
		Go ahead, Bernie.
unidentified		Yes.
		Hi.
		Thanks for putting me on.
		Donald Trump is really, every time I see this guy on TV, my blood pressure goes up.
		And I have to change the channel.
		What he's doing is he's doing stunts.
		I was saying, when he was running before he said, stop the steel, I have a, what do you call it, a model, something for him.
		They should just say, stop the stunts, because everything he's doing is like show and tell.
		He's trying to make a presentation.
		He's not discussing the issues.
		He doesn't have facts.
		When he fired the person who put on the employment figures, all right, maybe she's off.
		If you just don't think they're right, what figures do you have?
		Present your information.
		He condemns things in general, but doesn't have any specifics as far as information going.
		But he needs to stop these stunts with the firing people here and there and putting the national, he wants to send the National Guard to Chicago.
		Now, there is some crime in some bad neighborhoods.
		They could probably use some National Guard or some of these bad neighborhoods to control some of these people.
		But every time I see what he's doing, he's putting them in downtown areas in Washington.
		He's putting the National Guard on the mall.
		He's protecting the Lincoln Memorial and the Washington Monument, guys.
		I don't know what's going on over there, but he needs to put them in the streets where they can actually get involved.
		Of course, that's a tough situation.
		You've got to have people who are resisting.
		So it's provocative that was.
		And so what he does is he puts a show on.
		Instead of really getting in there and trying to solve your problem, he's treating the symptoms, but not the causes.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Bernie, let's go to Jacksonville, Florida next to Jose, Independent.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jose.
unidentified		Good morning, ma'am.
		How are you doing?
		And I just want to say thank you for CISTAN.
		You guys do amazing work there.
		I've been watching y'all since I was a kid in the 80s.
		And so I just want to say thank you.
		And as far as Trump, he's everything that I expected, 100%.
		And I just want to say I thought it was going to be different for our children, but it's not.
		And Trump is only a mirror.
		And Trump is only a mirror of our society.
		It's about cruelty, corruption, self-absorbed, which is so unfortunate.
		I thought we were going to be in a different place.
		I'm still hopeful.
		I'm a veteran.
		I fought for this country.
		I'm embarrassed, to be quite honest with you, but I'm hopeful.
		I think that somehow, some way we're going to climb out of this.
		And Trump will be gone one day.
		And we're going to have to reckon with all of this.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So let's take a look at what David Fromm said in The Atlantic.
		So if you call, he was a speechwriter for George W. Bush, now a columnist with The Atlantic.
		And this is what he said.
		In Trump's second term, the government is changing fast.
		In his first half year as president, Trump has systematically purged the federal law enforcement apparatus of rule-obeying public servants.
		He is replacing them as quickly as he is able with people chosen for their loyalty without regard for their other qualifications.
		At the FBI, Trump forced out his own first-term appointees to replace them with absurdly unqualified loyalists chosen for their record of complying with any Trump wish, no matter how glaringly unlawful.
		Over at Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, Trump is building an enormous paramilitary force staffed by people hired for pro-Trump zeal and who may ignore written law.
		That's The Atlantic's David From.
		With that opinion, wonder what you think of that.
		And here is Marge, Marblehead, Massachusetts, Independent.
		Go ahead, Marge.
unidentified		Hey, Nini, I really appreciate you.
		I appreciate C-SPAN, 40-year listener.
		And one of the things I listened to was at Dawn this morning, you played a Representative Josh Breachen from Oklahoma, a town hall.
		I absolutely beg that you play this during hours that most people operate, repeated on C-SPAN at some point.
		He delineated each and every relevant facet of the big, beautiful bill that benefits us.
		And I learned so much from that.
		And I think that would be an encouragement to people, particularly naysayer Democrats, but gosh, you're so depressing.
		I'm calling you from the no representative state for Republicans and independents, Massachusetts, zero representation for Republicans and independents in this state.
		In D.C., 12 days, no murders.
		Can you imagine that that's a selling feature, having the National Guard on the street?
		It's a sad commentary, but it's real that they are cleaning things up.
		I was on a webinar yesterday, Federal News Network, about the future of employment in the country.
		I was so encouraged, so enthused about the multiple thousands of jobs that are in the process of being created, signed off on.
		We're kind of in a state in the country, from my observation, that it's kind of like they've removed your leg because of gangrene or you've got cancer surgery or something, and the doctor's telling you you're going to feel so much better.
		Right now, it hurts like crazy, and you don't feel that.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Marjuri.
		The new jobs that you're talking about, where are they coming from?
		What did you do?
unidentified		Well, CDP was on.
		Thank you for asking that.
		The CDP was on.
		The Coast Guard was on.
		And actually, I've learned, I was in a state of shock realizing that DHS covers 23 agencies.
		I had no idea Christy Noome had that kind of responsibility.
		I just envisioned DHS as this one entity.
		That's a lot.
		But they are government jobs.
		What's happening right now is with Doge, they're creating a greater sense of efficiency.
		They are going to be employing AI tools.
donna in texas ▲ ● ▼		I mean, the government's looking at this like some gee whiz thing when actually industry has been employed.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So, Marge, just to be clear, you're saying that the new jobs that are coming are coming from the federal government.
donna in texas ▲ ● ▼		Well, and dot, dot, dot, because there were panelists on there from industry, like SAP, SAP, and Peeing Identity, and whatever.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So, those are government contractors, so that is all still taxpayer money.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay.
unidentified		No, no, no.
		No, Mimi, that's incorrect.
		That's private industry.
		SAP is private industry.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
unidentified		Peeing identity is private industry.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Hiring people to work on government contracts that are paid by the government.
		Sorry.
		David Delmar, Maryland, Democrat.
		Good morning, David.
unidentified		Good morning, Mimi.
		Pleasure to talk to you.
		I think Donald Trump's second term is a total disaster.
david k rehbein ▲ ● ▼		It's what is happening right now with the National Guard deployment in Washington, D.C., for instance.
unidentified		The apprehension of quote-unquote illegal immigrants by thugs who are apparently all former militia people, proud boys, oath keepers, you name it.
		And a good example is your article that you read, not your article, but the article you read quoting Denny Terrio.
		I think his first name is Denny.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Enrique.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Enrique Terrio.
unidentified		Denny Terrio was the dancer.
		I'm sorry.
		Enrique Terrio.
		That explains it all.
		We are living through what happened in 1930s Germany.
		Exactly.
jon rappoport ▲ ● ▼		This man is totally unhinged.
unidentified		Have you ever had Mary Trump on as a guest after the 8 o'clock hour?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So, David, what specifically has concerned you the most about the second term and what has surprised you?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What were you not expecting?
unidentified		I was expecting it all because of Project 2025 that came out beforehand.
unidentified		So I was well prepared.
ted nugent ▲ ● ▼		And knowing him since 1988, 89, Donald Trump, I mean, the guy, he's totally unqualified to be president.
unidentified		The people, the cabinet he has surrounding him, they are all unqualified.
		I mean, RFK Jr., head of health and human services.
		I mean, come on.
		All the rest of them.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Got it, David.
		Here's Max, a Republican in Maryland.
		Good morning, Max.
unidentified		Hey, thanks for taking my call.
		I just want to give some perspective on the Washington, D.C. area and the situation.
		Regardless of who the president is, there is an opportunistic situation.
		D.C. is a very dangerous city.
		I've lived in the area for my whole life.
		I'm basically a third generation DC resident.
		I live in the DMV area, but I drive through the city every day.
		I've been robbed at Knife Point with a fish-filled knife when I was younger.
		They used to drive the SWAT team through 16th Street and Mount Pleasant regularly to subdue the gang violence in the high schools.
		We're not even talking about adults.
		These are high schools.
		When I was held up, I was held up by high school students.
		This is nothing new.
		D.C. violence is bad.
		The reason it's a political issue, though, is because people in one part of the city enjoy the fact that another part of the city has violence because there would be no difference.
		All the cities in D.C. are very beautiful.
		They're old cities, old towns, old neighborhoods.
		Every neighborhood in D.C. is beautiful.
		The only thing that distinguishes you from a nice part of town, from a bad part of town, is the crime.
		Like, why would you pay all this money to live in Georgetown when it's flip-flopped throughout the hundreds of years as a good town, bad town?
		It's because of crime.
		It's what gives your neighborhood value.
		I'm just giving everybody a perspective, just an actual first-hand perspective.
		Every single administration uses this.
		They bring the SWAT team.
		They bring in the National Guard when crime is up because it regulates property value.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And we will have more time later in the program to take your calls.
		But later on the Washington Journal, we'll have Liesel Pettis of the R Street Institute discussing President Trump's executive orders aimed at ending cashless bail.
		But first, a reporter's roundtable on efforts to bring peace to Gaza.
		We're joined by Nedia Bilbazi Charters of El Alabea News Channel and Jacob Meged of The Times of Israel.
		We'll be right back.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		So you interviewed the other night.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I watched it about two o'clock in the morning.
unidentified		There was a little thing called C-SPAN, which I don't know how many people were watching.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Don't worry, you were on prime time too, but they happened to have a little re-run.
patty murray ▲ ● ▼		Do you really think that we don't remember what just happened last week?
patty murray ▲ ● ▼		Thank goodness for C-SPAN, and we all should review the tape.
unidentified		Everyone wonders when they're watching C-SPAN what the conversations are on the floor.
al green ▲ ● ▼		I'm about to read to you something that was published by C-SPAN.
sean duffy ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of things that Congress fights about that they disagree on.
sean duffy ▲ ● ▼		We can all watch that on C-SPAN.
unidentified		Millions of people across the country tuned into C-SPAN.
		That was a made-for-C-SPAN moment.
		If you watch on C-SPAN, you're going to see me physically across the aisle every day, just trying to build relationships and try to understand their perspective and find common ground.
		And welcome forward to everybody watching at home.
		We know C-SPAN covers this a lot as well.
patty murray ▲ ● ▼		We appreciate that.
unidentified		And one can only hope that he's able to watch C-SPAN on a black and white television set in his prison cell.
		This is being carried live by C-SPAN.
		It's being watched not only in this country, but it's being watched around the world right now.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Mike said before, I happened to listen to him.
		He was on C-SPAN 1.
		That's a big upgrade.
unidentified		right?
		Weekends bring you Book TV featuring leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books.
		Here's a look at what's coming up this weekend.
		At 1 p.m. Eastern, journalist Chris Sweeney recounts the career of ornithologist Roxy Layborne, who became the first forensic ornithologist, helping the FBI, Air Force, and NASA in investigations involving birds.
		Then at 2:45 p.m. Eastern, linguist Emily Bender and sociologist Alex Hanna argue that artificial intelligence can't deliver on the promises made by tech companies.
		At 7 p.m. Eastern, Fox News political analyst Giano Caldwell explores crime and justice in American cities as he recounts his 18-year-old brother's murder and its aftermath.
		And at 8 p.m. Eastern, chemist Catherine Harkup describes the science behind the poisons used in Agatha Christie's murder mystery novels.
		The Secret Science Club is the host of this virtual event.
		Watch Book TV every Sunday on C-SPAN 2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org.
		Washington Journal continues.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Joining us now to talk about the war in Gaza is Nadia Bilbazi Charters.
		She is a senior White House correspondent and Washington Bureau Chief of El Arabea News Channel.
		Nadia, welcome.
unidentified		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Joining us by Zoom is Jacob Meged, who is the U.S. Bureau Chief of the Times of Israel.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Jacob, welcome to you.
unidentified		Thanks for having me.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And I'll just start with you, Jacob.
		On Monday, Israel carried out a double strike on a hospital in Gaza, killed at least 20 people, including five journalists.
		Can you tell us what Israeli leaders have said about that attack?
unidentified		So there was pretty fast international uproar.
		So I think the initial decision by Israeli officials was to try to apologize in some ways.
		Prime Minister Netanyahu issued a rare English tweet or statement where he said it was a tragic mishap.
		And since then, though, the IDF has acknowledged that it's investigating the matter, but also trying to argue that there had been a camera at the hospital that Hamas fighters allegedly were using, and then later arguing that some of the people that it had killed in the strike were Hamas operatives or operatives for other militant organizations, while still at the same time arguing or explaining that it's investigating,
		indicating that those aren't reasons in and of itself to carry out two tank shell strikes in a row.
		That footage that we saw was pretty harrowing of the rescue workers and journalists at the scene.
		And then after the first strike and then going up in the explosion and being killed, I think the IDF is going to need to do more than just say that they were Hamas operatives.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And regarding an IDF investigation, Jacob, is there confidence in the IDF doing a thorough investigation of themselves?
unidentified		Confidence from who?
		I think the IDF and Israeli officials would probably say that's satisfactory, but I think given the repetitive nature of these kinds of attacks, I'm not sure how many other people will be buying it.
		But most importantly, the U.S. doesn't seem to be too bothered by the strike.
		While Trump was asked about it in the Oval Office a couple of days ago and hadn't known about it, and then he said, even though he hadn't known about it, he doesn't like to hear it.
		But when I asked the State Department for comment yesterday, the response was we're just going to defer to Israel on this matter.
		So I don't think it's something that they're feeling heat from Washington over.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Nadia, What have you learned of the White House's response to this attack?
		And specifically attacks on journalists as well.
		We've got information here from the CPJ that says 197 journalists have been killed, 90 are imprisoned.
		These are journalists in Gaza.
unidentified		Well, actually, the number is 245, according to international organizations of journalists killed in Gaza.
		It's the highest number of journalists killed in modern history.
		It's the highest since the Second World War.
		So that tells you that many people believe that Israel actually targets journalists and it's not just accidents.
		The case of Shireen Abu Akhla, the journalist from Al Jazeera, who was targeted, and there is well-documented evidence that actually they knew she was a journalist.
		The Israeli changes all the time the narrative.
		In the beginning, they said she was caught in cross-fire.
		We don't know who they are.
		Journalists in Gaza, in particular, they wear a press vest and it's very clear.
		And what happened with colleagues a few days ago, the five of them who were killed, including Maryam Abu Da'a, which is a woman journalist, a photojournalist who left a child behind, they were going up on the stairsway to be able to send signals.
		And these people became a big story because they work for an international outlets.
		They work for Reuters, for AP, for Al Jazeera.
		If they were just local Palestinian journalists, I don't think the Israelis will bother much to say that it was a mishap, etc.
		But they caught red-handed, and now they say we're investigating.
		The problem with the reaction from the White House and the State Department, they said in general, we refer you to the Israelis, it's nothing to do with us.
		But if this administration really cares about the freedom of expression and having information coming from a war zone, they have the leverage to press the Israelis, first of all, to allow international journalists to get into Gaza.
		Gaza is the only conflict in comparison to the Balkan, to Iraq, to Afghanistan, to Syria, where international journalists are barred from entering Gaza, except with the IDF.
		And when they travel with the IDF, they only see what the IDF wants them to see.
		So the White House doesn't even condemn it.
		Like in the old days, at administrations, they will give, maybe it's a lip service.
		They're saying we regret the killing of journalists, but we refer you to the Israelis.
		But this administration doesn't even tell you we condemn that.
		Maybe privately they say it, but not publicly.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		This is what the Committee to Protect Journalists says about this issue.
		It says, Israel is engaging in the deadliest and most deliberate effort to kill and silence journalists that CPJ has ever documented.
		Palestinian journalists are being threatened, directly targeted, and murdered by Israeli forces and are arbitrarily detained and tortured in retaliation for their work.
		Media infrastructure in Gaza is systematically destroyed and censorship has been tightened throughout the West Bank and Israel.
		By silencing the press, those who document and bear witness, Israel is silencing the war.
		Jacob, I want to ask you about how the Times of Israel is able to report on this war.
		What kind of access do your journalists have there?
unidentified		Similar to what Nadia was saying, we're not granted full access at all to Gaza.
		We can try to go in with the IDF in these embeds that they do.
		Pretty much, I think our military correspondent, whenever he asks, is given pretty frequent access.
		And I would assume that he's been in over a dozen times.
		But again, as Nadia mentioned, it's only two places where the IDF wants you to be able to report.
		There's very limited access to speaking with civilians when you're on those embeds.
		I'm actually going to try.
		I'm going to the region next week and hoping to maybe visit one of those GHF, Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, those controversial distribution centers that have been in the headlines over the past couple months and see what that's like on the ground, because that's just also one of the few options to go into Gaza.
		But they've been pretty limited in who they're letting in as well.
		And basically what I've seen is only people who are pretty much toe a very clear line with the Israeli government and in support of GHF.
		Those are the people that GHF has been allowing into the sites.
		And then you're suffice with trying to reach Gazan civilians through the internet, through texting, WhatsApp, kind of similar to people who are very far away.
		We don't have a ton of access.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And that is Jacob Meged.
		He's U.S. Bureau Chief of the Times of Israel.
		Also with us is Nadia Bilbazi Charters of El Adabaya News Channel.
		She's the bureau chief there.
		If you'd like to join the conversation and ask our roundtable a question, you can do so.
		Our lines are bipartisan.
		So Republicans are on 202748-8001.
		Democrats are on 202-748-8000.
		And Independents 202748-8002.
		You can start calling in now.
		We'll get to you shortly.
		Nadia, I want to ask about the new report by the IPC.
		It's a UN-backed body.
		It has declared Gaza a famine zone last week.
		How did we get to this point?
unidentified		We get to this point by, first of all, the breakdown of the ceasefire.
		The president, President Trump, has negotiated a ceasefire.
		It lasted, it basically went to effect a day before he took office on January 20th.
		The ceasefire broke down on March.
		From March till May, Israel has not allowed any food or fuel or medical supply to come to Gaza.
		So people were trapped.
		And as you know, Gaza is an enclave.
		It controls completely by Israel.
		So nobody can bring any food, despite that on the Egyptian side, there were structures and also I think on the Eritrean side.
		So people have zero access to anything basically from the outside world.
		So they consume what they had.
		We had appeal after appeal from international organizations, from the UN, from WFP, which is the World Food Program led by Cindy McCain, the wife of former Senator John McCain.
		And they described the situation as grave.
		They've been telling people that the young, especially the young and the women, will be the first victims.
		They were the weakest and they will die first.
		And this is what happened.
		So we reach now to a degree that actually Gaza is declared as a famine zone.
		And till now, this morning, I think around 330 kids have been killed, sorry, have died as a result of the famine and lack of food and lack of medication.
		The problem is not just the people who are dying and the children.
		This is going to affect a generation because kids are malnourished.
		There's not enough food to reach them.
		Israel denied that they're using food as a method of weapons.
		We have seen it been used before in other conflicts.
		But the fact that actually they refused to allow this food to come in, despite the pressure from so many allies Of Israel, including the president himself, who said this starvation has to end.
		The first lady, Melania Trump, who said basically she saw pictures of the starving kids.
		And by the way, the pictures that we see on the Arab media, it pales into comparison what the American media sees, because we see it day after day.
		Here in the US, many people believe that the social media is controlled.
		So for example, if you put a picture of a skeleton of a child, it immediately labeled as you cannot see this contact because of whatever reason, because they don't want people to see it.
		So as a result, maybe the American media does not see, they're not exposed to what happened in Gaza.
		And this is why the work of journalists, local journalists, was immensely important because it informs the world of what's happening there.
		Until now, people don't have much access to food, and we see it daily that children, the weakest of them, are dying.
		And some people compare pictures, actually, I've seen it to what happened in the 30s in Germany.
		They put a picture of a child in Gaza, just skeleton, skin and bones, next to a child of a Holocaust who was dying in Germany.
		And they say the word never again is not applying anymore.
		Something has to be done to save these children.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Jacob, what has been the official response of the Israeli government to the declaration of famine?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And what has been the popular response of the people of Israel?
unidentified		Both, I'll start with the government, has been dismissive and quite combative in its response to this IPC report, trying to argue that the methodology that IPC used for Gaza was different from other conflicts in the world and trying to argue that by showing pictures and footage of lots of food going into Gaza and that to argue that actually,
		and there are markets that have food in them to argue that actually the situation is not as bad as IPC is saying.
		And sometimes you'll hear Israeli officials acknowledge that there's deprivation or shortages in certain areas of Gaza, but they blame Hamas for either or other groups for looting the aid or co-opting the aid or taking cutbats from people who are selling it and then being able to, I guess, make a profit from that.
		But overall, quite adamant that the situation in Gaza, while it's not good in any stretch of the imagination, it is not, there is no famine there and insists that enough food is going in and that Israel will continue to allow to facilitate the entry of aid to the tune of several hundred trucks of aid a day.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And Nadia, the President Trump has said he wants the U.S. to take a bigger role in getting humanitarian aid into Gaza.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Where does that effort stand?
unidentified		Well, they created what they call the Gaza Humanitarian Fund.
		It's basically controlled by Israel and the United States and some contractors.
		Palestinians and international organizations describe it as a death trap.
		There is maybe a thousand people who are being killed as they get close to that place where they distribute the food.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Why are they being killed there at the food distribution site?
unidentified		We don't know.
		I mean, they're basically saying there was a chaotic situation because people are starving.
		Maybe they're trying to get to the food and it's very chaotic, so they shoot at them.
		But there is actually documented evidence by one contractor who now no longer works for them.
		And he said, he has seen people just shooting kids even for no reason.
		I don't know what's the reason that they have given, but he said definitely there was no reason for it.
		But regardless, if Israel is saying there is no famine and people not starving, allow international journalists.
		Journalists like myself, who covered war in Africa for 10 years, we take that risk.
		We take that risk.
		It's not up to the government to tell you it's risky or not risky.
		Let them there and let tell the world whether it is the starvation or not, whether Hamas steal the food or not.
		Because there is no evidence till now.
		And we depend on the international organizations who works there, like the central kitchen or the UN, etc.
		But before, coming back to your question, before they had an apparatus, they have a mechanism of delivering the food.
		Because it's not just bringing the food to Gaza, it's how do you distribute the food?
		And the food was done through the UN.
		UNRWA was the organization, the UN that was created after Israel was created at the time in the 4048.
		But actually, UNRWA was created in the early 50s to cater for Palestinian refugees.
		Most of the Palestinians became refugees when Israel was created.
		And UNRWA has been working in these areas, know the area very well for decades.
		So the food was distributed very efficiently through them.
		Israel wanted to take away the refugee issue, which is one of the final status issue in the final settlement.
		And to discredit UNRWA, they said there are 12 people who are working for Hamas.
		They open an investigation.
		As long as the investigation is open and Israel can keep it open for 10 years or 20 years, the US to say we cannot send any funds to UNRWA and therefore we cannot deal with them.
		So they're trying to bypass the UN, which has an impeccable way of delivering food to people, to refugees.
		This reminds the viewers that Gaza has 70% of its population refugees.
		They live in refugee camps.
		They are refugees as a result.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Outside of Gaza.
unidentified		Inside the whole of the Gaza Strip.
		The population of Gaza is 30% only local population or local original Gazan families.
		And 70% are Palestinians who were forced to leave their homes from 1948 and 1967.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Is there evidence that Hamas has been stealing the food or stealing the aid that has been coming into Gaza?
unidentified		I mean, we have reporters on the ground.
		I'm speaking on behalf of Al-Arabiya.
		We have not seen evidence that Hamas takes the food.
		There is evidence that there is gangs.
		And in a chaotic situation, because Hamas, also remember that Hamas was the government.
		We're talking about Hamas, Hamas as a terrorist organization that used terror to commit October 7 and also used terror as a method to achieve what they want to achieve.
		But also, Hamas was the governing body of Gaza.
		So they were controlling the traffic lights, for example.
		They were the police who control law and order.
		So when you take away that, then you have vacuum.
		And the vacuum always filled by armed gangs.
		So maybe these people were stealing the food.
		Maybe some of Hamas fighters were stealing the food.
		We don't know.
		But it's not to the extent that the Israelis saying or the Americans saying that we cannot send all this food because Hamas is taking it and therefore we have to create another method which is the GHF.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Jacob, I want to ask you about protests that happened in Israel yesterday.
		The organizers of the protest said that there were 350,000 people that took to the streets.
		These are Israelis to protest the war.
		Can you tell us about what that is, what they were asking for, and how significant this protest was?
unidentified		Sure.
		This was a protest organized mainly by the families of hostages being held in Gaza.
		So there's about 50 of them left, including 20 who are believed to be alive.
		Though President Trump seems to change the number every time he speaks, but basically they're pretty despondent at the situation.
		They don't feel like they're being heard by the government, who has also changed its position regarding the kind of hostage deal and ceasefire agreement that it's willing to sign on to.
		And this was the second of major protests that have been held.
		I think there was one on Sunday last week that was one protest all, just one big protest, I believe, that was taking place in Tel Aviv.
		There were even, I think, numbers that were even double the 350,000 that you mentioned.
		The second protest of yesterday was a bit there, were several of them throughout the day.
		I think they're trying, the hostage families are trying to change their tactics to try to keep this issue in the press.
		But basically, there's this feeling that the government is not interested in trying to secure the release of the hostages, which, according to polls, a majority of Israelis want to prioritize that issue over what Netanyahu talks about as defeating Hamas.
		That is where the break is.
		I think Netanyahu argues that if you agree to Hamas's demands of simply agreeing to get the hostages back in exchange for an end of the war and a withdrawal from Gaza, that that leaves somehow Hamas in power, and that therefore he is not willing to do that.
		And he is trying to feed Hamas simply through strictly military means.
		He argues that that's the only way to get the hostages out.
		It's a shift from his position for the entire war until August 1st when he started saying that his only method Israel would use to get the hostages out is just simply military force and that it's only interested in a comprehensive deal in which all of the hostages are released in one batch.
		That's what the hostage families wanted from the get-go.
		They didn't like these phased deals that Netanyahu had started pushing for in the spring of 2024, where the notion was the idea was that you would be able to get hostages, a certain amount of hostages out, but then remain with the ability to resume fighting after a 60-day or 45-day ceasefire had been expired.
		And that's what happened, I guess you could say, first in November 2023 when you had a seven-day ceasefire that also collapsed with both sides kind of blaming each other for why that was.
		And Israel resumed fighting after about 100 hostages were released then.
		And then in January 2024, you had that 60-day ceasefire that Nadia mentioned that also fell apart and Israel resumed fighting afterwards.
		And that was kind of Netanyahu's goal was to continue to be able to fight in Gaza against Hamas.
		Part of the reason his critics would say is because he's facing pressure from far-right coalition partners who threaten to collapse the government if he simply ends the war in exchange for the hostages.
		They want to be able to continue fighting, even maybe possibly encourage the migration, as they call it, of Gazans out of the strip and build settlements in their place.
		That's their goal.
		And that's, I think, one of the motivations that Netanyahu's coalition partners have for continuing the war.
		And all of a sudden, after, I guess, I think it had to do with the fact that President Trump started talking about an end to the war.
		Netanyahu understood that he had to change tracks and talk about a deal that would end the war, not just an agreement that would get some of the hostages out and allow Israel to resume fighting.
		So that's what he did on August 1st around then.
		But then the cabinet passed a decision basically with the decision to take over Gaza City, another operation that was characterized as the final bastion of Hamas that we just need to eliminate.
		And then we'll win the war, something that he had been saying ahead of the Rafah operation in the spring of 2024, that that was also the final bastion.
		But what we've seen is really that Hamas has turned into this complete guerrilla force that Israel's dealing with an insurgency, that these operations, it's unclear whether they'll actually work.
		But what the conditions that the cabinet passed in addition to going into Gaza City is that we're willing to end the war, but it has to be on these five conditions that make it almost impossible to do so, that involve basically the complete capitulation of Hamas, with giving up its weapons, the demilitarization of Gaza, that latter issue, demilitarization.
		That's something that would take likely years to, or months, if not years, to implement, given that all Gaza has really just become a lot of the infrastructure Hamas has been using to build tunnels and things of that nature.
		That would take a very, very long time to dismantle and demilitarizing Hamas, disarming Hamas.
		That's something that the terror group is not interested in doing.
		So that's the problem.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Well, so Jacob, let's talk about a lot of what you brought up.
		But first, let's go to the Oval office and hear a portion of what the president said about this topic from the Oval.
		Here he is.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		So I mean, I deal with Bibi Netanyahu quite a bit.
		And we had great success, obviously, in Iran.
		We knocked out their nuclear threat.
		That would have been a horror show having them have a nuclear weapon.
		They would have used it too.
		We did very well there.
		Right now they're talking about Gaza City.
		There's always talking about something.
		At some point, it's going to get settled.
		And I'm saying you better get it settled soon.
		You have to get it settled soon.
		And that means, you know, nobody can forget October 7th.
		People forget October 7th.
		That was one of the most brutal.
		I've seen some terrible things, some brutal things.
		That was about as bad as it gets.
		And nobody can forget that.
		With that being said, it's got to get over with.
		It's got to get over with.
		Because between the hunger and all of the other problems, worse than hunger, death, pure death, people being killed, I think within the next two to three weeks you're going to have a pretty good, conclusive, conclusive ending.
		It's a hard thing to say because they've been fighting for thousands of years, if you want to know.
		That's absolutely not.
		It's been a hotbed forever.
		But I think we're doing a very good job.
		But it does have to end, but people can't forget October 7th.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Nadia, two to three weeks will have a conclusive ending.
unidentified		Yeah, and a colleague of mine followed up yesterday about this.
		He didn't seem to know what he's basing that on.
		And actually, what intrigued me is what the president just said.
		They've been fighting for thousands of years.
		I mean, Israel is only 76-year-old.
		I don't know what he's referring to when they said they're fighting for thousands of years.
		Now, we know that Mr. Wetkov, Steve Wetkov, who's the president envoy to the Middle East, told Fox News last night that the president is going to chair a meeting about Gaza today.
		So we know at least that there is something is happening.
		And the president seems to be giving the green light to Netanyahu to go ahead with this Gaza operation.
		Now, Netanyahu wants to go to Gaza City.
		Gaza City has a million civilian population.
		And it will be completely disastrous if he does that.
		Plus, I think many people believe it will jeopardize the life of the hostages because it is, as he said, Mr. Trump keeps changing the number, whether it's 20 or alive or 22.
		But the idea is basically if the Israelis decide to use the military force, and that's a political decision by Netanyahu, the military were opposing that, actually.
		I mean, ultimately, they have to do it because he has to tell them what to do.
		But most of them advise him against that.
		And many military experts believe there's no more target to hit Hamas.
		But the bigger picture is Netanyahu want to expand this war because he wants to escape the trial that he was supposed to face a long time ago.
		And it's not true that his government will collapse if two of his ministers, which is not extremist ministers, Smotrich and Ben Khafir, and both of them, by the way, I refer the viewers to go and listen to what they have been saying.
		Short of racism against Palestinians, they will say, like, we have to kill them all, children, men, women, we have to destroy Gaza.
		We have to take it over.
		Minhafir used to say these roads in the West Bank only should be used by Jewish settlers and not by Palestinians.
		So if Netanyahu will say, I cannot change my plan because my government will collapse, the oppositions have been offering him to join the government.
		And Mr. Lapid has been repeated last two days, saying, like, we are happy to join you.
		So don't worry about your government collapsing.
		But there is other alternative motives for him to carry on.
		But I think the fact that now Mr. Retkov said that we have to have a solution by the end of the year.
		So that can stretch from between two weeks to end of the year.
		Ultimately, everybody agreed.
		And what was remarkable is when the French and the Saudis came up with this plan and they said their intent to declare their support for an independent Palestinian state on the 67 border alongside Israel during the UN General Assembly meeting that's coming up in September.
		Many countries are joining them now, especially close allies of the United States.
		And I think up to now 15 countries are going to declare that.
		But they were saying that Hamas will never be part of the government.
		Hamas has to be destroyed and the Hamas weapons will be collected.
		And I think there is a clear Egyptian plan to do that.
		And maybe international forces.
		So there is a way out.
		I don't know if the president is working on that now or basically he wants Netanyahu to go along with this adventure, which is very risky.
		It might kill all the hostages.
		It might destroy Gaza.
		We don't know which way it's going.
		It might be a leverage that he's using it as a bargaining chip to say that I wanted to invade Gaza or we have a comprehensive deal with Hamas.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's put the Hamas-approved ceasefire deal up on the screen so everybody understands what is in it.
		This was put forward by the Egyptians and the Qataris.
		It would include that Hamas would free around half of the 50 remaining hostages.
		And as Jacob said, it's believed by Israel that there are 20 hostages that are still alive.
		It would include an initial 60-day truce with negotiations on a permanent ceasefire.
		A lot more to talk about, but I want to get callers in on the conversation.
		And we'll start with the Republican line in Truth or Consequences, New Mexico.
		Kyle, you're on the air.
unidentified		Thanks a lot, guys, for having this conversation.
		I have maybe two questions.
		First, for Mrs. Bilbasy, real quick, you spoke about the UN and food aid delivery.
		I'm just curious about non-governmental organizations and their role in either delivering food or not delivering what the money is for to the people of Gaza.
		Second, I'd like to ask Mr. Jacob, we've talked a lot about the hostages.
		This actually goes for both of the guests.
		Are either of you familiar with the Hannibal directive, the Hannibal Directive?
		And if you are, can you please elaborate on that and what that means for the hostages of Israel, but for the people of Gaza that are being killed on that justification that all that is going to be?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		We got it, Kyle.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, Nadia.
unidentified		Well, thank you for the question.
		I think there are NGOs who are working in Gaza, but mainly most of the food was delivered through the UN.
		UNRWA World Food Program, UNICEF that deals primarily with children, also World Central Kitchen led by a famous chef, Jose Andreas.
		And these people were like their work was really put aside in return for creating what the Israelis and Americans said this fund that will directly go to the Gazans.
		But as I said before, the mechanism doesn't really work because they only have four delivery points and it's all in southern Gaza.
		So imagine if you are a Palestinian from the north and during the ceasefire, by the way, we've seen images of Palestinians walking on foot from Rafah right to the north because they want to go back to their homes or what left from their homes.
		Just to remind you that Gaza is destroyed now beyond Dresden in the Second World War.
		So these people don't even have homes to go to.
		They have what left from homes.
		They live in intents, basically.
		And this is why, I think, there are other roles for NGOs, but the main effective way of delivering food, not supplying food, now we've seen recently the Jordanians aid dropping food on other Arab countries as well, and some of this food will fall on the head of people and kill them.
		But regardless, because they needed to find any methods of delivering the food, and basically it's the UN that knows how to deliver because they've been working there for almost 70 years.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Jacob, any comment on that and the Hannibal directive?
unidentified		Sure.
		Just on aid, I think what we've seen over the, since really May or so when Israel resumed allowing aid into Gaza after that 78-day blockade is that the vast majority of the aid that's been going in from to UN organizations, other NGOs, has been looted and not reaching its destination of these warehouses, some of the warehouses that Nadia is mentioning.
		Israel is trying to argue that aid is being stolen or co-opted by Hamas.
		I think what UN organizations are saying is simply hungry Gazans who have been going so long without food and are desperate.
		And once they see a truck coming, they're going to jump on it and try to get as much aid as they can, given how desperate the situation is there.
		But even UN figures at this point are acknowledging that the sometimes even I think the WCK aid over the past week has been looted 100%.
		I would have to go back to it, but it's around that percentage.
		I saw a chart showing that as well from the UN figures.
		That's how dire the situation is.
		I think what Israel's tried to argue is that some of these organizations should be trying to use armed guards to try to prevent some of this aid.
		But the organizations, the UN, has been reticent to do so.
		I think it violates what they see as principles of neutrality.
		Israel argues that some of those organizations are using armed guards in other conflict zones and should be using them here as well.
		But other issues that contribute to looting have to do with these very strict measures that the IDF is imposing on organizations trying to bring into aid into Gaza.
		A lot of them aren't even allowed to cover the aid in the trucks coming in or tie it down.
		And that exposes it to looting at a much higher rate, given how easy it is to, if the aid is just exposed in the air, that it's very easy for people to jump on and take.
		And actually, those shootings at GHF sites that Nadia mentioned, now what we're seeing is I think because of the headlines that were happening for almost a month, two months of every day seeing people who are trying to get to these GHF sites were being shot by Israeli troops.
		Israel says that it was firing warning shots at these civilians who they felt were approaching them in a threatening manner.
		That those situations have actually decreased, while the number of shootings at people trying to reach UN aid convoys have gone up.
		I think maybe there was recognition that if Israel wants GHF to succeed, which it does, it has to be much more careful in the crowd control measures that it uses.
		It seems to continue to use live fire in both cases.
		And that's why we've seen, according to UN figures, really, an uptick in the amount of shootings surrounding UN aid convoys that are still having a hard time getting in.
		But I think what Israel argues is that if you get more aid into Gaza, the situation can stabilize.
		We have seen prices go down.
		That is a pretty strong indicator that more aid is getting in.
		But the situation is obviously dire.
		So, as for the Hannibal Directive, the Hannibal Protocol procedure, it's sometimes called, this is an Israeli, basically, procedure that is from several decades ago to try to prevent the capture of Israeli soldiers or hostages by enemy forces and the decision to basically open fire in order to prevent their killing or their kidnapping.
		Given how much Israel is willing to give in exchange for getting them back, there's a feeling that we need to prevent this at almost all costs and even at risking the lives of soldiers who are at risk of being taken.
		The directive, though, was outlawed or stopped in, I think, around 2016.
		It was formally revoked.
		What we did see is that there were some reports that it was implemented on October 7th.
		But I would note that I think a lot of the people that have been jumping on this protocol have been trying to, I think, minimize the extent of Hamas's role in October 7th and try to argue that actually these 1,200 people were mainly just killed by the IDF, who was trying to prevent their capture.
		And I don't think that's what the facts suggest.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's talk to Crystal, West Palm Beach, Florida, Democrat.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Crystal.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		And thank you so much for having this topic and your guests.
		I have questions for both.
		I'll make it quick.
		First of all, Nadia, I want to tell you: I've been watching you for two years, asking questions, really good questions, bringing serious issues to light in the State Department.
		I watched you during the Biden administration and would like for you to mention how Matt Miller, who was spokesman at the time, has now come clean on how he sided with the narrative of Israel 100% in the U.S. and the media.
		So, my first question is: Can you please discuss America's role in the United Nations going against every single UN resolution for ceasefire?
		And for Jacob, thank you so much for being here.
		I appreciate you so much.
		I would like for you to discuss the latest polls of the Israeli citizens and discuss how they infect their sentiment regarding food, continuing the war, and the general plan and the Greater Israel Project.
		Thank you so much again.
		Nadia, you're doing a great job.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Crystal.
		We'll hear from Nadia now.
		Well, thank you so much.
unidentified		I just realized I have fans here.
		I really appreciate that you watch the State Department briefing and the White House because I really believed that citizens have to be informed.
		In order to have a true democracy, people have to know.
		And the problem that most people here see one side of the story.
		So I'm glad that you watch everything.
		For sure, I mean the spokesperson job is to defend the administration policy.
		And the administration, the former administration, basically from day one, they send, as you know, there was leaked cables telling diplomats all over the world, do not mention ceasefire.
		Let the war take its course, and we don't want to talk to force Israel to go into a cessation of hostilities for the time being.
		And ever since, the situation was getting really grave.
		And despite that, Matt Miller, who was a defender of the administration policy, was basically taking the Israeli side.
		And they are allowing Israel to do whatever they want.
		But they have, again, lip service when we ask about civilian casualties.
		When we say, even President Biden himself, I remember I was in the Rose Garden initially when they said 4,000 civilians have been killed.
		He denied this.
		And he said, like, no, this number is not even true.
		And even now, as we're talking about 62,000 dead, the majority of them are women and children.
		80% are women and children.
		So unfortunately, I mean, what I learned in the, I mean, unfortunately about the spokespeople is they don't tell you the truth and we know that.
		But I believe that every journalist's right is to ask the question.
		And even if you don't get the answer, you have it on the record.
		You ask the questions.
		And later on now, Matt Miller is retracting.
		He's saying basically what he should, he said, he agreed.
		He said, like, yeah, it's true.
		Netanyahu was not interested in stopping this war.
		Netanyahu wanted to continue.
		Even when the Secretary of State at the time, Tony Blinken, was telling him that this is like you have to have the plan for the day after.
		He said he's going to carry on with his military operation in Gaza.
		As a result of what we have seen now, it is one of the most devastating conflict for any human being to watch, and especially seeing women and children.
		And the number, as I said, is really staggering.
		And we will never know the full story until this war is ended.
		And we're talking about a damage both physically and psychologically for generations to come.
		But unfortunately, the previous administration was not willing to pressure Israel.
		And this administration also are not willing to do it, despite the fact that Israel cannot continue this war without American weapons.
		And this weapons is so precise to the degree we go back to the killing of journalists.
		The killing of journalists, they know exactly who they were because they can see them.
		And despite that, they went ahead and they killed him.
		And I think very few people, brave people, who stand up and raise their voice like Senator Bernie Sanders, who himself came from a Holocaust family and he knows exactly what it means.
		He said that we have to stop supplying Israel with weapons.
		Use the leverage.
		Not forever, but just these weapons could not be used against a civilian population.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And it's not just Senator Sanders, it is Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene Georgia, who is speaking out very vocally on X about American weapons being used in Israel.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Jacob, to you about polling in Israel and what do we know about popular sentiment there?
unidentified		Sure.
		So as I mentioned, there is a pretty clear majority, depending on the poll, either 65, 75, even more percent of Israelis that really just want this war to end and are willing to possibly even withdraw from Gaza and agree to many of Hamas's terms, those two main ones of ending the war and withdrawing from Gaza in order to get the hostages back.
		The hostage issue is incredibly salient for Israelis.
		And that's why we've seen on a weekly, if not more, basis, these protests, very, very large protests calling for their release.
		But I wouldn't at the same time confuse that with any sort of, I think, maybe sympathy for what's happening in Gaza for civilians.
		I think there is more recognition that the humanitarian situation is dire.
		But the feeling is that amongst many Israelis is that simply this is the fault of Hamas, that it could end the war if it wanted to right now, if it just agreed to put down its arms and free the hostages and the humanitarian crisis there could stop.
		And I think there's also a belief that there was a bit of a boy who cried wolf that this is how Israelis see it regarding the situation in Gaza, that famine was that it was on the brink of famine, that organizations have been warning that since the beginning of the war, and that therefore that Israelis don't often take these concerns seriously.
		I think now that the situation has gotten a little bit has gotten so much worse, I think maybe there's growing recognition.
		But overall, that the blame is not on how the Israeli government is handling the situation, more on how Hamas they believe is the cause of the problem.
		You asked also about, I guess, Greater Israel.
		It's an interesting question.
		This is the concept of just Israel expanding to its biblical borders of the land that extend to Lebanon, Jordan, and into the Egyptian Sinai Peninsula and other places, a much greater span of land than what it currently exists as.
		I wouldn't say that that's a majority Israeli opinion that would like to see Israel expand its borders that much.
		That's more the feeling of the national religious camp that believes in that concept in the higher numbers.
		I think in general, though, there might be some interest in Israel maintaining, holding on to territory in Gaza as a buffer zone.
		Possibly there's talk of that in the ceasefire negotiations right now, maybe a kilometer into the Gaza Strip to try to prevent what happened on October 7th or make it harder for what Hamas did on October 7th, that kind of invasion.
		So you take some land.
		That's the Israeli argument.
		And maybe there is support for that concept in Gaza.
		But I wouldn't say that there's majority support at this point for us actually building settlements there, which is, I guess, part of the greater Israel agenda.
		I think bottom line, there's just a lot of fatigue in Israel, just like, of course, there is in Gaza for this war.
		There's a real desire for this to end.
		There are people that have been serving reserve duty for hundreds and hundreds of days that have either lost their jobs or have made it really a major strain on the economy.
		And they see that they're just going back to the same places in Gaza over and over again because the way that this war is being handled is that Hamas is maybe temporarily defeated from certain areas.
		And then the IDF pulls out and then Hamas returns because Israel has never been interested in trying to advance a viable alternative to replace Hamas in Gaza.
		And it's allowed this war to just extend in this very cyclical nature.
		And I think that's the fatigue that we're seeing from Israelis.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Jacob, you said that there's fatigue with the war.
		Is there fatigue with the leadership of Netanyahu?
		I mean, does he still have the support of the people, or is there another leader that they might find more viable or more amenable to what they're looking for?
unidentified		Yeah, there's absolutely a high degree of fatigue when Netanyahu polling suggests that he would not even be close to being able to form a coalition, though in recent months there's been a little bit of a rejuvenation from Netanyahu and his block of parties, but they're still not near the majority that would be needed to build a coalition.
		The issue is that the other parties, and we saw this in the previous government, is that the only thing that they're aligned on is being against Netanyahu.
		But the ideological spectrum spans pretty wide from Arab majority parties that are much more sympathetic, of course, to the Palestinians, and then to very right-wing parties that want nothing to do with Arabs or Palestinians and have a very hard time sitting together in the same coalition.
		So, while Netanyahu might have a hard time winning the election, if those other parties can't agree to sit together in one coalition, what we could see is another scenario that we had several years back where we just have election after election, and in the meantime, you have a government that remains a temporary government that remains a caretaker government that is run by the current prime minister, Netanyahu.
		So, that would allow him to remain in power.
		That's a lot of speculation.
		It's unclear.
		Elections aren't supposed to be held at the latest until October of 2026.
		They'll probably be a little bit earlier.
		But again, we're still very far away from that scenario.
		There will likely be new parties that come into the fray, and we'll have to see what happens.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's talk to Walid, Independent in Bronx, New York.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		How are you?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		I just want to talk about what Donald Trump said.
		Donald Trump said that October 7, 2023 was a travesty.
		And I agree with that to a certain point.
		But I look at October 7, 1948, October 7, 1958, 68, 78, all the way up until October 6, 2023.
		And how America has allowed Israel to devastate, kill, displace these people since 1947.
		And I'm wondering, when is this ever going to stop?
		When is America going to capitulate to the world who sees what exactly is going on, but it doesn't have the backbone to stand up to America because they fear bombing and insurgencies?
		When is it going to stop?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Nativ, what do you think?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		I mean, given all that history, is peaceful coexistence possible between Palestinians and Israelis?
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
		But it has to be based on justice.
		You cannot have an economic peace like Jared Kushner proposed before.
		You cannot have Abraham Accords expanded and having states who have never been at war with Israel and say, look at the Arab world now, we have to legitimize Israel's existence.
		Actually, the Arab peace plan that was proposed by at the time Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia became King Abdullah said we are happy to bring the whole Muslim world, 57 of them, not just the Arab world, if Israel can accept the two-state solution, which is East Jerusalem as a capital on the 67 border.
		But by the way, I mean, when we talk about Palestinian state, we're talking about 22% of what used to be historical Palestine.
		And just to refer to what Walid said, people don't read history and don't make a reference to historical points.
		And actually, during or after October 7, and as horrific as it was, because any attack on one civilian have to be condemned, and it's horror.
		Imagine we're talking about 1,200, but many people went to compare what happened on October 7 to what Israeli terrorist organizations like Stern and Hagena did in 1947 when the raided villages, like famous massacres, like in Deir Yassin on the outskirts of Jerusalem.
		And there is one particular massacre that carried on by what became later as the leaders of Israel, including Ishaq Shamir, was in Tantura, and Tantura was close to Haifa.
		And there is actually an Israeli film documentary movie was done about it.
		And they've managed to find some of the perpetrators.
		They are in their late 80s and 90s now.
		And they were talking publicly about how they rape Palestinian women, how they killed young men.
		It was a big massacre.
		So the history can go back.
		You can go back much longer for sure than October 7 of 2023.
		But people don't want to relate to that.
		But is peace possible?
		Oh, absolutely.
		Because these two people fighting on one piece of land, it has to be a just peace.
		If you have a Palestinian state next to you, and this is the only solution, they tried everything else.
		You went around it.
		And Abraham Accords was an example.
		You dance around the elephant in the room.
		And that's the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
		It's not the Israeli-Arab conflict.
		It's the Palestinian.
		If you find a just solution, it is nothing short of having a federation between two people living on the same land, very similar to each other, and make it the Silicon Valley of the world.
		But it has to be based on justice.
		That's the reference.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk to Christine, Chabby Chase, Maryland, Republican Line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Christine.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
		Thank you so much for taking my call.
		As a recent Republican, one of my biggest conflicts with the party is this general blind loyalty to Israel and labeling of people who disagree instantly as anti-Semitic.
		I personally think this is one of the greatest, if not greatest, tragedies we're witnessing in my entire lifetime, and I think it's disgusting.
		First, I want to ask, is there any evidence to support that Netanyahu's goal is just to exterminate all Palestinians?
		Because that's the only abhorrent motivation that I see.
		It's no longer a defense argument.
		Second, what, if anything, will make Netanyahu and Israel stop this genocide?
		And is there anything that I can do from the comfort of my own home with the privilege I have to support ending this tragedy?
		Thank you so much.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Jacob, go ahead and take that one.
unidentified		Sure.
		I think what Netanyahu would try to argue is that this is not a genocide, that if Israel did want to commit genocide, it would be able to do so much, much quicker than what is happening, that Hamas simply, if it agreed to release the hostages and end the war, release the hostages and give up its arms, it would be willing to end the war.
		That is what Netanyahu has tried to argue to reject these claims of genocide.
		And the U.S. has, I mean, as one of the earlier callers has mentioned, has tried to argue it as well that what's happening in Gaza is a tragedy, but Israel is not the chief responsible party in what's happening there, that Hamas is to blame.
		We saw it even last night when Steve Witkoff was interviewed on Fox News.
		He was asked about who's to blame for the current impasse.
		He said it's 100% Hamas, or he was asked, is it 100% Hamas?
		And he said yes.
		I guess his argument was basically talking about the latest ceasefire negotiations.
		Sorry to move back towards this, but that we had an offer that was on the table that Witkoff helped craft several months ago.
		And then basically he says that Hamas slowwalked us in the end of July.
		And that led to this breakup of talks in Doha.
		But then we had the Arab mediators come back and say, okay, we're going to work to get Hamas back to lower its demands.
		And after it agreed to do so and agreed to accept the proposal, then there was an opportunity there.
		Mediators felt to move forward to this phase deal.
		And yet Israel has not responded to it and basically saying it's not interested in these phase deals anymore.
		So it was a little bit confusing why Witkoff was arguing at this point, saying it's 100% on Hamas when there's a deal on the table that is actually almost identical, according to Arab diplomats that I've spoken with, to the one that he proposed several months ago.
		But that's been the U.S. position, which is to really back Israel with this administration, even more so than the previous one did.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And I just wanted to ask Jacob: Christine asked, is there anything that would force the Israelis to stop the war?
unidentified		Yeah, I think it would be the involvement of the Trump administration.
		I think we saw it in January when Trump was coming into office.
		It was Witkoff himself who played a pivotal role in securing that deal in January.
		There was a meeting, I believe, it was on January 11th, that he flew to Israel and met with Netanyahu on a Saturday during the Sabbath, which is something that was seen as not very typical in Israel, and really forced him, I think, according to, or leaned on him incredibly hard to agree to the terms of a deal that were on the table for months and months and months.
		And that's how we got that deal.
		But since entering office, the Trump administration's position is to kind of walk away from the negotiations or the framework that they helped broker and allow Israel to resume fighting.
		And that's been the case since then, is not really allowing Israel to impose that 78-black day blockade.
		Say what you wanted about the Biden administration.
		I don't think it was likely that we would have seen that kind of action taken by Israel if the U.S. had been warning against it and possibly threatening or hinting at withholding weapons.
		So I think that's going to be the key to getting any sort of deal again.
		It's going to be pressure from the U.S. on Israel, but also I would have to add pressure from the Arab mediators on Hamas.
		And we have seen that pressure come to bear, it seems in recent weeks to help Tamas calm down from some of the demands it was making in late July.
		So I think it's going to have to come from both sides.
		And for now, I haven't seen that the political will from the mediators to really lean on both parties at the same time, incredibly strong pressure because without it, both obviously Hamas and Netanyahu are interested in driving this war out.
		All right.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And I will give you a chance to respond, but let's get Louise from Pennsylvania, Line for Democrats.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Louise.
unidentified		Good morning.
		The reason I'm calling, I wanted to make a comment.
		Whenever President Trump gets involved, what happens is he makes a show and then he doesn't follow up on it.
		He'll say, okay, I made a deal.
		I talked to Putin.
		He's not going to bomb Ukraine.
		I'm giving him 30 days to do that.
		He does the same thing with Gaza.
		They say, we'll give the people time who are the invaders.
		And then when he pulls out of the section, they just keep bombing the people.
		Isn't he bright enough to know that when you keep giving someone who is being brutal to another country, then you have to be brutal to that person?
		And the one thing is stop selling arms to Israel.
		They are the ones who are brutalizing it.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
		Got it, Louise.
		Let's get a response from Nadia.
unidentified		I was going to say, just a reference to the previous caller, that Hamas is convenient for Netanyahu.
		Netanyahu has lived with Hamas for decades.
		Netanyahu's government has allowed $30 million funnel to Hamas every month because the bigger picture for Netanyahu is never to compromise and never have a Palestinian state.
		Netanyahu, if you go back to the Zionist literature, you realize that Netanyahu belonged to the Japutinsky branch of Zionism.
		He wants to expand.
		And this is why in his latest interview with Israel 24, he said basically, you talk about Greater Israel.
		Israel does not have a constitution or a border till now, because many people believe that they really want to expand more.
		If you look, even put Gaza aside, look at the West Bank.
		They're gobbling the West Bank.
		They're making a Palestinian state impossible to have because of the settlements that they're building day in and day out.
		And now this administration enabled them because they're using a biblical term.
		Instead of even calling it the West Bank, they call it Judea and Samaria.
		And that's the U.S. ambassador to Israel who was appointed by Mr. Trump.
		And this is why I'm saying that basically, not even Netanyahu, but Goldamair, which is in the 70s, we go back at the 70s.
		We used to say, we want a land for people who don't have land, but we don't want the people in the land.
		So the idea of expelling Palestinians has always been an Israeli strategy.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		But Nadia, going back to what you said, are you saying that Netanyahu does not want to destroy Hamas as he has been saying that that's his goal?
unidentified		Now, after October 7, of course, he wanted to destroy Hamas and Gaza altogether.
		What I'm saying is that before, Hamas was convenient for him.
		So he can use it as an excuse to say, we cannot have a Palestinian state because Palestinians are divided.
		They have a terrorist organization in Gaza and a Palestinian authority in the West Bank.
		And therefore, it's very important for him to keep Hamas alive as long as they're not attacking him the way they did on October 7th.
		October 7 put things in perspective for him.
		And now he gave him also an opportunity, not just to destroy Hamas, but to destroy Gaza.
		They wanted to destroy Gaza, and hence he keeps saying, we need to find countries who will take the Palestinians.
		And this is President Trump's original plan.
		Remember when he talked about a Riviera in Gaza?
		Gaza is on the beach, it's a great land, real estate, and therefore we have just to get rid of the 2 million people.
		And I asked Mr. Trump in the Oval Office, and I said, and he said Gazans will be happy with that.
		And I said, well, how do you know, Mr. President?
		Because this is what exactly is defined as ethnic cleansing.
		You are forcing 2 million people out of their ancestral home because you wanted to make them live a better life in southern Sudan or in Libya or in Angola or I don't know where, whatever country that he thinks he can send them to.
		Palestinians are not going anywhere.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		That's Nadia Bilbaisi Charters.
		She is Washington Bureau Chief and Senior White House correspondent for Al-Ata Baya News Channel.
		Also with us was Jacob Meged.
		He is U.S. Bureau Chief of Times of Israel.
		Thank you both so much for joining us today.
unidentified		Thanks for having me.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Coming up, Liesel Pettis of R Street Institute discusses President Trump's executive orders aimed at ending cashless bail.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Sunday night on C-SPAN's Q&A.
		Wall Street Journal columnist Jason Riley, author of The Affirmative Action Myth, argues that the racial preference policies of the 1960s and 70s have had an overall negative impact on the success of black Americans.
		There are racial differences in America, in our society, cultural differences, ethnic differences.
jason riley ▲ ● ▼		But when it comes to public policy and how the government treats us, treats the population, no, it should not be picking winners and losers based on race or treating people differently based on race.
unidentified		It's been a disaster.
jason riley ▲ ● ▼		Whether the effort was under Jim Crow to elevate whites or the effort was under racial preferences to elevate non-whites, it's been a disaster.
unidentified		You know, people like to say that diversity is our strength in America, but I disagree.
jason riley ▲ ● ▼		Our real strength in this country has been to overcome our racial and ethnic differences and focus on what unites us as a country.
unidentified		That has been the strength of America.
		Jason Riley with his book, The Affirmative Action Myth.
		Sunday night at 8 Eastern on C-SPAN's QA.
		You can listen to Q&A and all of our podcasts on our free C-SPAN Now app.
		Have been watching C-SPAN Washington Journal for over 10 years now.
		This is a great format that C-SPAN offers.
		You're doing a great job.
		I enjoy hearing everybody's opinion.
		I'm a huge C-SPAN fan.
		I listen every morning on the way to work.
		I think C-SPAN should be required viewing for all three branches of coverboard.
		First of all, if you say I love C-SPAN and how you'll cover these hearings.
		Thank you, everyone at C-SPAN, for allowing this interaction with everyday citizens.
		It's an amazing show to get real opinions from real people.
		Appreciate you guys' non-biased coverage.
		I love politics and I love C-SPAN because I get to hear all the voices.
		You and C-SPAN show the truth.
		Back to the universe for C-SPAN.
		It's the one essential news network.
brian lamb ▲ ● ▼		Historian Jay Winning first appeared on the Book Notes television program 24 years ago to discuss his book April 1865.
		He became a number one New York Times bestseller, reportedly read by Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, George W. Bush, and many others.
		It's the narrative story of the Civil War, or his latest book, Winnick Stepped Back Four Years in History to look at how the Civil War began.
		This time, the book is titled 1861, The Lost Peace.
		Northerners had little regard for the strength or determination of the South, writes Winnick.
		Lincoln friend John Hay said the Southern Army was nothing more than a vast mob.
		The New York Tribune said it differently.
		Jeff Davis and company will be swinging from the battlements at Washington by the 4th of July.
unidentified		Author Jay Winnick with his book 1861, The Lost Peace, on this episode of BookNotes Plus with our host, Brian Lamb.
		Book Notes Plus is available wherever you get your podcasts and on the C-SPAN Now app.
		C-SPAN Shop.org is C-SPAN's online store.
		Browse through our latest collection of C-SPAN products, apparel, books, home decor, and accessories.
		There's something for every C-SPAN fan, and every purchase helps support our nonprofit operations.
		Shop now or anytime at c-spanshop.org.
		Washington Journal continues.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Joining us now to talk about U.S. bail systems and reforms is Liesel Pettis.
		She is criminal justice and civil liberties policy director for R Street Institute.
		Liesel, welcome to the program.
unidentified		Thanks for having me.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So first, tell us about your background in criminal justice and how you came to this topic.
unidentified		Sure.
		So I actually am a former prosecutor.
		After being a prosecutor for several years, went on to run a nonprofit agency for victims of domestic and sexual violence.
		Also did five years on my local city council and so took those different perspectives into how policy comes together in our criminal justice system and came to R Street.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's talk about what President Trump did on Monday in the Oval Office.
		He did sign orders aimed at ending cashless bail.
		Let's listen to what he said and then we'll talk about it.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		We run things like we run this.
		We like clean, we like beautiful, and we like safe, and that's what we're getting.
		So I'll start signing the executive orders.
		To me, this is a very, very big deal.
		One of the executive orders has to do with cashless bail.
		That was when the big crime in this country started.
		And I can tell you who did it, when, but I don't want to do that because others followed pretty quickly.
		But that was when it happened.
		Somebody kills somebody, they go in, don't worry about it, no cash, come back in a couple of months, we'll give you a trial.
		You never see the person again.
		And I mean, they kill people and they get out.
		Cashless bail.
		They thought it was discriminatory to make people put up money because they just killed three people lying on the street.
		Any street all over the country, cashless bail.
		We're ending it.
		But we're starting by ending it in DC.
		And that we have the right to do through federalization.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So let's talk about that, Liesl.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		First of all, what is cashless bail?
unidentified		Which is a great question because the term gets thrown around a lot.
		And not many people are familiar with what cash bail is, what the bail system even is, what cashless bail is.
		But really, it's a system that pivots towards risk-based assessments to determine if somebody should get out.
		So are they going to be a public safety risk?
		Are they going to not show up for court?
		That being the main consideration, rather than just giving a money amount for somebody to pay based upon their offense to get out.
		So cash bail is that money amount that's assigned to an offense and people can pay to get out.
		And a cashless bail system generally uses preventative detention, meaning somebody cannot pay at all to get out.
		They are stuck in jail until their trial or they're let out with conditions that are non-cash based.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Now, the president said essentially you can kill people and then say, okay, come back later and they never come back again.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Is that what happens?
unidentified		Well, I do want to just point out first that President Trump has hit on something that people are not immediately understanding is a big problem right now, which is there are many people in our communities that are feeling that more needs to be done around crime and homelessness.
		That is true.
		A lot of people are seeing that they want more to be done.
		The kind of part that goes astray is whether or not the bail system is responsible for people feeling unsafe.
		You will hear from prosecutors and police officers that they get very frustrated with what they call kind of a revolving door into the system or a catch and release where people get picked up, get out again, commit another crime.
		These are real issues to talk about and see about good solutions.
		But when we're talking about murderers, almost across the board, but I will say there are some states that don't have an ability to hold murderers in, but a lot of those individuals are not getting out at all, even for a cash amount.
		They are being held because they are a public safety risk.
		It doesn't mean that in some places they may get out, but in the vast majority of circumstances, murderers are not being released from jail pretrial.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Now, you wrote an analysis at rstreet.org about two weeks ago.
		You said why federal repeal of no cash bail laws would be unconstitutional and bad policy.
		Explain both of those things.
unidentified		Sure.
		So the 10th Amendment is our clearest kind of law talking about state rights, that it's really up to the states to be doing these, what we call kind of traditional policing powers, which would include how the criminal justice system deals with state crimes.
		And it really would be hard to do anything as a mandate to states or municipalities requiring them to do something specific because of the 10th Amendment.
		And that is such an important part for federalism, for the sovereignty of states.
		And it seems clear that the president actually understands that that is a step too far that he cannot take.
		because in the executive orders, really what's being done is pulling on those kind of purse strings to determine whether or not they can use grant funds and funding power to get the outcomes that they're hoping for.
		So the first one is more of the legal question.
		Can the federal government tell states what to do?
		And generally the answer is no.
		Even their power to pull the purse strings is very limited by SCOTUS saying that things have to to not be done in a punitive nature.
		They need to have some sort of correlation with what you're actually trying to impose.
		On the other side, the question is, is this even really the right solution?
		So if we do think that people are feeling unsafe, if we do think that crime is not where it should be, that it needs to really come down and public safety is a priority, should we be messing with the bail system?
		And the answer might be yes, but I will say that saying universally that cashless bail is the problem really is going to put us into a bad spot.
		And specifically, I'd like to kind of point out places like Texas and Tennessee.
		Both states just recently have expanded their preventive detention.
		So again, that is where you cannot pay to get out.
		You will be stuck in because the courts have found that you are a public safety risk.
		They have found that cash bail is not the appropriate tool to be using those cases.
		They don't want people to get the chance to pay their way out at all.
		They want them to be detained.
		So when we're talking about removing these cash bail or cashless bail systems who have really started pivoting to preventative detention versus conditions with release, we're actually allowing more people to get out because they can now pay versus saying no, they're going to be withheld regardless.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		If you'd like to discuss with our guest, Liesl Pettis, the bail system and criminal justice reform, you can go ahead and start calling now.
		Our lines are regional this time.
		So if you're in the Eastern or Central time zones, it's 202748-8000.
		If you're in Mountain or Pacific, it's 202-748-8001.
		Now, if you have any experience with the bail system, whether for yourself or a close family member or a friend, give us a call on a line, which is 202-748-8002.
		Of course, you can use our line for texting, which is 202-748-8003, or you can post to social media.
		So Liesl, what are the systems in place that determine bail?
		And is it the same for everyone, or is it somewhat arbitrary depending on what judge you get?
		Like if you're the severity of what you're accused of or your previous convictions or your previous experience with the criminal justice system.
unidentified		So all those things matter.
		First, what matters is what state you're in.
		Every state has very different bail laws.
		You have states like New York who does not consider a dangerousness factor, which allows somebody to determine whether or not they're going to be a public safety risk to determine their release.
		But most states do have a dangerousness factor.
		So each state is going to be different.
		Within those states, there's going to be a difference between who can be detained with preventative detention and who can be released.
		And then if they are released, what conditions of release may exist?
		And that could be cash.
		The only state that has actually fully eliminated and abolished cash bail is Illinois.
		But you have other states like New Jersey who has functionally eliminated it because they do not really use it.
		But even in those two states, the number of crimes that can be preventively detained versus required release are different.
		But then certainly the judges you go before may change that determination too.
		Some may really lean into conditions of release, such as ankle monitors, supervision, things of that nature, where others may think if I set a high cash bail amount, maybe that will keep them in, which is a very different consideration.
		But all those are different.
		And then we go even a layer further, and now we talk about bail bondsmen and whether or not bail bondsmen exist in a state that help people get out at just 10% of that bail amount versus having to pay a full cash amount.
		So it is wildly different across the nation.
		And then certainly there are differences between courts and judges.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And what about the backlog?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		How quickly can you get a determination of bail set once somebody is arrested?
unidentified		Again, it matters on a state you're in.
		But most states do have a standard saying essentially that it needs to be prompt.
		In some states, that's actually defined within 24 or 48 hours.
		Others, it could be up to seven days.
		It really depends on where you're at.
		It can also a lot of times matter whether or not you're in an urban area or a rural area because some rural jurisdictions don't have judges that actually come in every day.
		So it really depends, but across the nation, it is supposed to be a quick and prompt hearing done pretty immediate after arrest.
		Like I said, 24 to 48 is kind of the standard normal, but there are definitely places that it's more like a week.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And Liesl, we got this posting on X who says the bail system doesn't solve crime.
		It's just a way to make money.
		What do you say to that?
unidentified		I would question money to who.
		The bail system certainly benefits from helping people get out.
		There are some states where the courts actually kind of work in that way.
		So I'm not sure I would say that it's a money-making system by any means.
		And that's certainly not what it's supposed to be.
		I will agree that I wouldn't say it's necessarily a crime fighting tool.
		We're talking about people who've already committed a crime and it's the aftermath.
		But it can be used, like I said, for that public safety consideration.
		So there is an element if you think somebody is a public safety risk and they may continue to commit crimes, there are tools that can be used within the bail system to help keep that individual either detained or given conditions to hopefully alleviate some of the things that may be causing the criminal behavior.
		So I agree, but have a little bit more nuanced of a look on that.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And what's the situation in Washington, D.C. and, you know, that DC does have the cashless bail and what impact has it had?
		I mean, have crime rates improved?
		Has there been any improvement as a result?
unidentified		This is such a hot button question right now.
		The most recent data that's come out has shown that there has been a huge decline in DC crime rates, the lowest in about 30 years, kind of across the board, both violent and property crimes.
		But those numbers really have been called into question.
		There was a commander who was discharged because it turned out he was changing some of the crime statistics.
		And so people are really having a hard time believing the numbers.
		I would say that they seem to be true because they hold up with also some of the other data that's been coming out.
		But regardless, if people don't feel safe, they don't care what the data says.
		So it's still that consideration of I do think people are wanting more to be done, but is the bail system the issue?
		And if it is, is it that it needs to be completely changed or is it that it needs to be tweaked?
		Certainly things that can be looked at are if somebody is out on bail and they commit a new offense, are bonds being revoked?
		I mean, could that be the biggest thing that needs to change?
		Is a stiffer kind of sanction when somebody is not complying while out on bail?
		Now, it doesn't mean that you need to dismantle the whole system.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's take calls.
		We'll start with David Flemington, New Jersey.
		Good morning, David.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thank you.
		Yes, I'm not exactly sure how the bail system impacts this, but my son was mugged in a city in New Jersey by five guys, and it got complicated because three were minors and two were adults.
		So the punishments were different.
		There's that issue, how severe should be the punishment versus minor versus adult.
		But the other issue was one of them got out during that time.
		This was Essex County, New Jersey.
		And I know one of them got out pending charges or trial, and he was actually involved in something else.
		So there does seem to be an ease with which people can be back on the streets after committing crimes.
		And I'm not sure if that's due to the bail system or not.
		But I do thank you for taking my call.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Liesel.
unidentified		It's hard to know, like in those specific situations, if the person was released on bail and something happened, or if they immediately pled guilty and the sentence was different.
		So that's always a hard one to just do on a case-by-case basis without knowing all the details around it.
		Certainly bail is a factor in people being released.
		I think it's always extremely important to remember there is no crystal ball.
		We cannot say for certainty who is going to be high risk, who is not.
		And so judges do have to rely on things like risk assessments, previous criminal history, the facts of the individual case to make those determinations of whether or not somebody can be safely released.
		Sometimes they will get it wrong, unfortunately, but really the bail system has a obligation to weigh both public safety risk and making sure that there's accountability and somebody's going to show up for court with the presumption of innocence and individuals' rights to be free without a compelling reason.
		Our jails are not big enough to hold every single person who commits a crime.
		So some people are going to have to get out.
		We wouldn't want every single person held for crimes.
		The vast majority of crimes in America are actually low-level offenses like driving under restraint, simple theft.
		If those individuals are going to be held on every single charge, not only are we going to have to build much bigger jails, it's going to be extremely costier to taxpayers, but those individuals are also not going back out in the workforce.
		They likely could lose their job, lose housing, and we could actually see some pretty catastrophic events if we were holding everybody.
		So it really is a balancing act.
		I'm actually a fan of the New Jersey model in that they have one of the broader systems that allow for preventative detention, but also don't use cash for those that can get out.
		But like I said, sometimes, unfortunately, judges do get it wrong, and it's really unfortunate when that happens.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		We've got a question on text from Dan in Pennsylvania who says, does the rate of crimes increase with population density, i.e. cities versus suburbs versus rural areas?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What do you think of that?
unidentified		Yeah, I think pretty universally that is true.
		There are usually higher crime rates within those highly dense urban areas.
		How that plays into bail, I think, is a different question.
		But yes, I would agree generally that's true.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		I want to put up a portion of President Trump's executive order regarding this topic.
		And it says this, maintaining order and public safety requires incarcerating individuals whose pending criminal charges or criminal history demonstrate a clear ongoing risk to society.
		When these individuals are released without bail under city or state policies, they are permitted, even encouraged to further endanger law-abiding, hardworking Americans because they know our laws will not be enforced.
		Our great law enforcement officers risk their lives to arrest potentially violent criminals only to be forced to arrest the same individuals, sometimes for the same crimes, while they await trial on the previous charges.
		This is a waste of public resources and a threat to public safety.
		Liesl, what do you think of that?
		And are those assertions corroborated by your research?
unidentified		So I actually largely agree with the idea that if individuals are committing violent offenses, sexual offenses, they have criminal histories, and there is believed to have concerned that they are a risk to public safety, they should be held in detention.
		I think most people agree with that assertion.
		And I think in most cases, that is happening.
		Again, not everywhere, not all the time.
		Every courtroom's different.
		But this goes along with that trend that we're seeing that people are trying to actually broaden their right to withhold bail entirety, right?
		Like, so people cannot pay to get out, that they are actually being held for those violent offenses and people who have criminal histories.
		I also think that, again, people are frustrated when they see somebody commit a very serious crime, get out and commit another one.
		Even low-level offenses, if somebody is just getting out and racking up another charge, another charge, another charge.
		But this is very different to say we need a cash bail system to handle that versus we need to figure out what is going on in those cases and doing a better job of addressing those.
		So again, cashed bail means you can pay to get out.
		I mean, I have seen somebody who, as a former prosecutor, got out on $50,000, $150,000 bails because they were a drug dealer.
		They had access to money.
		There's a bondsman who, you know, they make a lot of money off of helping pay those bonds and they get out.
		That's not keeping us safe either, allowing just people to pay to get out.
		So the question really is, is could a cashless bail system where people are required to stay in if they're a risk, the given conditions, if they can be safely let out, could be a better system just tweaked.
		Maybe it's more offenses need to be available for preventative detention.
		Maybe it's that revocation of bond needs to be used more often if people are committing similar charges over and over again.
		But throwing out an entire system based on things that we all agree about and aren't necessarily happening just seems kind of out of touch when there could be these smaller changes that would really help.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Adriana is in California and she has experience with the bail system.
		Adriana, tell us about your background.
unidentified		Well, I'm a former prosecutor, but I'm calling also because all of us have been subjected to traffic infractions.
		When you get pulled over by the police and you sign the ticket that you're going to show up in court, it's essentially a bail system.
		And before you go to court, you'll get a notice in the mail that you can post bail and forfeit the bail to pay the traffic violation.
		So what about that?
		I mean, we pay insurance.
justice neil gorsuch ▲ ● ▼		Many of us are professionals and we buy bonds.
unidentified		Contractors have contractor bonds.
unidentified		It's a form of insurance.
justice neil gorsuch ▲ ● ▼		And I think it crosses over all aspects of our life and that we should support that idea.
justice neil gorsuch ▲ ● ▼		Maybe there should be some reforms, but in my experience, when people have to pay a bond, it means they take the matter seriously.
unidentified		And sometimes the grandmothers are posting the bonds and the criminals will be very cognizant of that fact and show up to court because they don't want grandma to lose their money.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Adriana.
unidentified		That's right.
unidentified		Okay.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, Lisa.
unidentified		So again, every state's different, but the vast majority actually use bondsmen.
		And when a bondsman's used, if there's a $100,000 bond set, The individual gives 10% of that, so $10,000 to the bondsman.
		They are unable to get that money back.
		It is non-refundable.
		It is paid, and that is how the bondsman makes their money.
		And then they're expected to show up for court.
		So I have a hard time believing that individuals that give money to a bondsman who have no ability to get that money back really feel any financial incentive at all to actually show up for court.
		There's actually been quite a bit of research done too, that even when the person doesn't show up for court, neither the bondsman or the defendant end up having to pay the full amount of the bond either.
		So the financial incentive, I think, is really kind of a fallacy out there.
		There are a couple states that require cash bonds, which means it is the individual themselves that has to pay it to the court, or that the court will do kind of what we call partially secured bonds.
		So the 10% goes to the court and the court can then refund that money if the person shows up.
		But that is actually the minority kind of way to do bond.
		That is not the majority.
		It's certainly something that could be explored as more of an incentive.
		But I would say the bondsman industry that is used in most of the states, and I mean, literally most of them, is not actually creating a financial incentive because that person has no ability to get that money back.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's go to Ralph in Las Vegas.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Ralph.
unidentified		Yeah, hi.
		You know, I was wondering, what's the percentage of first-time offenders versus repeat offenders?
		Is it that much different?
		I guess that's my question.
		I unfortunately don't have a specific stat on that.
		You know, you do see that there's a very small percentage of people that commit a greater percentage of the crime.
		But a lot of times that's not necessarily even getting out on bail.
		That's actually after going through the entire system, which is another discussion for another day of how the system could be doing a better job to rehabilitate.
		But there are plenty of people who come in as first-time offenders.
		And like I said, the vast majority of cases in the system are actually misdemeanors or low-level offenses, often committed by people in our community that you wouldn't necessarily expect.
		So, I mean, they certainly are out there.
		I couldn't give you a statistic, though.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Lisa, I just wanted to ask you about juvenile crime and what you're seeing as evidence of what could make that better, whether it is stricter enforcement, whether it is harsher penalties, trying them as adults, those kinds of things.
unidentified		So that is a huge question that I'm happy to try and answer.
		The juvenile system is a very different system.
		So even when you talk about bail, it is a different determination of removing somebody from their home and their parents and where should they be going into detention.
		Should they just be going into another facility?
		It is largely not as cash-based of a system.
		It's also a very different system in that most juvenile courts.
		And again, every state is different, but they really focus on rehabilitation to try and get kids back on the right track so they are not back in the system later on.
		And the reality is, is that the research shows that kids just are more resilient, they're more malleable, they're much more able to be influenced by what's going on in their life.
		The idea is that if you can actually, out of all the different populations, try and influence somebody to change for the better, the juvenile population is the most likely to have that change.
		And so there are tons of programs that go into juveniles.
		Preventatively, is probably the best you can do, which is trying to keep kids out of bad situations or to help them if they are in bad situations.
		And that can be everything from a house full of violence, which unfortunately you do see a lot of correlation between kids who grow up in households with violence and becoming violent later on in life.
		It could be their exposure to gun violence.
		There's a lot of retaliatory crimes with juveniles and kind of these groups that they run around with and see through social media.
		So really that preventative part is really important to try and get them back on track to repair the harms that they've experienced so that they're not then perpetrating on later in life themselves.
		I think certainly one of the concerns is there are suggestions to bring more juveniles into the adult system.
		What we need to remember is the vast majority of these individuals will be coming back out and will be coming back into our communities.
		And do we really think that a 14 or 50 year old going into an adult system to learn more about crime from older individuals is really going to make them safer when they come out later on versus really going after those rehabilitation options, things that could help them actually change their course in life, get back on track, and do something better.
		Certainly, if I was walking down an alleyway and I was confronted by somebody who'd either done the last 10 years with a bunch of adults in prison or done the last 10 years trying to rehabilitate and make a better life for themselves, I'd rather be coming across the person who's been rehabilitated versus the person who's been in prison with much older individuals who've committed much more crime.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		The website is rstreet.org.
		That's Lisa Pettis.
		She's the criminal justice and civil liberties policy director there.
		Thanks so much for joining us today.
unidentified		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And we'll complete the program with Open Forum.
		So you can start calling in now whatever's on your mind.
		The numbers, 202748-8001 for Republicans, 202748-8000 for Democrats, and 202748-8002 for Independents.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Honor the person who first showed you democracy in action and ignite America 250, C-SPAN's 18-month ad-free celebration of our nation's story.
		Give $25 or more by August 31st at c-span.org/slash donate and add your democracy hero to our online wall to keep these vital stories alive for viewers and learners everywhere.
		As our thanks, you'll receive an exclusive democracy unfiltered decal.
		Your gift helps make C-SPAN possible.
		Visit c-span.org/slash donate today and join us in keeping America's story alive.
		Thank you.
		This fall, C-SPAN invites you on a powerful journey through the stories that define a nation.
		From the halls of our nation's most iconic libraries comes America's Book Club, a bold, original series where ideas, history, and democracy meet.
		Hosted by renowned author and civic leader David Rubenstein, each week features in-depth conversations with the thinkers shaping our national story.
		Among this season's remarkable guests, John Grisham, master storyteller of the American justice system.
		Justice Amy Coney Barrett, exploring the Constitution, the court, and the role of law in American life.
		Famed chef and global relief entrepreneur Jose Andres, reimagining food.
		Henry Louis Gates, chronicler of race, identity, and the American experience.
		The books, the voices, the places that preserve our past, and spark the ideas that will shape our future.
		America's Book Club, premiering this fall only on C-SPAN.
		Washington Journal continues.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back to Washington Journal.
		We are in open forum.
		Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and taking your calls.
		Some things for your schedule programming.
		This is at 10 a.m. right after this program.
		So in about 25 minutes, we will take you to the United Nations Security Council holding its monthly briefing on the situation in the Middle East, in particular, Israel's expansion of its military campaign in Gaza.
		That will be live from New York at 10 a.m. Eastern here on C-SPAN.
		At 10.15 a.m. over on C-SPAN 2, NASA astronauts on the International Space Station will answer questions from students at Glen Oak High School in Canton, Ohio.
		We'll have that live coverage from the International Space Station at 10.15 Eastern.
		Then at 11 a.m., the Democratic National Committee wraps up their summer meeting in Minneapolis.
		They'll talk about fundraising, their strategy to counter the Trump administration policies, and how they hope to regain control of Congress.
		That final session will be live at 11 a.m. over on C-SPAN 2.
		All those programs you can see on our app, C-SPANNOW, and online at c-span.org.
		There's more live programming this evening.
		Be sure to check our website for information on that.
		Let's go ahead and take your calls now.
		So we'll start with Wade, Nevada, Iowa, Republican line.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yeah, good morning.
		Yeah, getting back on that cash bail system you guys were talking about earlier.
		I really just feel like there's more of an endemic problem with this.
		I mean, in society today, you know, just it seems today that all you see is violence in movies and sex on TV.
		I mean, where are those good old-fashioned values which we used to rely?
		The fog is coming.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And this is the front page of the Wall Street Journal.
		Here is Exxon.
		It says Exxon Russia in Secret Talks.
		And this is what the article says.
		After huddling with President Trump in Alaska, President Vladimir Putin told reporters that Russia and the U.S. could do more business together, for example, between their Pacific coastlines.
		Quote, we look forward to dealing, Trump replied.
		What the two leaders didn't say, behind closed doors, their country's biggest energy companies had already sketched out a map to going back into business, pumping oil and gas off Russia's Far East coast.
		In secret talks with Russia's biggest state energy company this year, a senior ExxonMobil executive discussed returning to the massive Sakhalin project if the two governments gave the green light as part of a Ukraine peace process.
		People familiar with the discussion say such is the sensitivity that only a handful of people at Exxon knew of the talks.
		That's in the Wall Street Journal.
		That's on the front page.
		Also information here from the New York Times about what's happening at the Fed.
		And this article says Trump's bid to control the Fed may royal global economy.
		Experts warn of inflation and bond chaos if effort to fire a governor succeeds.
		That's about Lisa Cook, and he was, the president was citing a cause for trying to fight, to fire her.
		She is fighting that in court, and that's on the New York Times.
		On the front page of the Washington Post, Doge put Americans' data at risk, officials say.
		It says that a U.S. Doge service uploaded a copy of American social security data to the digital cloud, risking the security of critical personal information for more than 300 million people, according to a whistleblower.
		Chief Data Officer Charles Borges raised concerns that Doge staffers bypassed safeguards, circumvented a court order, and created a copy of the Social Security Administration's entire collection of data on the U.S. public on the cloud.
		He said that the SSA had no oversight of who had access to the file.
		That's at the Washington Post.
		And President Trump was at the cabinet meeting yesterday, and he was asked about foreign policy.
		Here he is.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I want to see that deal end.
		It's very, very serious what I have in mind if I have to do it.
		But I want to see it end.
		I think that in many ways he's there.
		Sometimes he'll be there and Zelensky won't be there.
		You know, it's like, who do we have today?
		I got to get them both at the same time.
		But I want to have it end.
		We have economic sanctions.
		I'm talking about economic because we're not going to get into a world war.
		I'll tell you what, in my opinion, if I didn't win this race, Ukraine could have ended up in a world war.
		We're not going to end up in a world war anymore, but it would have ended up possibly in a world war.
		That would have been a, they were ready to trot.
		But just like India and Pakistan were going to end up in a nuclear war if I didn't stop them.
		You know, it was sort of strange.
		I saw they were fighting.
		Then I saw seven jets were shot down.
		I said, that's not good.
		That's a lot of jets.
		You know, $150 million planes were shot down.
		A lot of them, seven, maybe more than that.
		They didn't even report the real number.
		And I'm talking to a very terrific man, Modi of India.
		And I say, what's going on with you in Pakistan?
		Then I'm talking to Pakistan on trade.
		I said, what's going on with you in India?
		And the hatred was tremendous.
		Now, this has been going on for a hell of a long time.
		Like sometimes with different names for hundreds of years.
		But I said, what's going on?
		I said, I don't want to make a trade deal.
		No, no, no, we want to make a trade deal.
		I said, no, no, I don't want to make a trade deal with you.
		You're going to have a nuclear war.
		You guys are going to end up in a nuclear war.
		And that was very important to them.
		I said, call me back tomorrow, but we're not going to do any deals with you.
		Or we're going to put tariffs on you that are so high.
		You were there, Howard, right?
		You're going to put tariffs on you that was so high, I don't give a damn, your head's going to spin.
		You're not going to end up in a war.
		Within about five hours, it was done.
unidentified		It was done.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Now, maybe it starts again.
		I don't know.
		I don't think so, but I'll stop it if it does.
		We can't let these things happen.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		That was yesterday, and we are in open forum right now.
		If you'd like to give us a call, you can do so.
		Whatever's on your mind.
		Republicans are on 202-748-8001.
		Democrats on 202-748-8000.
		And Independents 202-748-8002.
		A couple of news items for you.
		This is from WTMJ.com, Vice President JD Vance to visit Wisconsin, touting the spending bill.
		Also, this from NBC News with this headline, states must axe transgender references from sex ed or risk losing funds.
		Trump administration says the mandate comes just days after the Trump administration terminated funding for a sex education program in California.
		Also, this from the AP, this has just come out, and that is that Trump extends control over Washington by taking management of Union Station away from Amtrak.
		And Union Station is Washington, D.C.'s train station.
		There's a picture there.
		And that is also the building that you see sometimes behind our guests because it's right in front of the studio here in C-SPAN.
		There it is on your screen.
		That's Union Station.
		Let's talk to callers now.
		Elsie in Alabama, Republican line.
		Good morning, Elsie.
unidentified		Yes.
		I'm calling about the tariffs and how everything else is going up.
		I voted for President Trump all three times he ran, but I'm very disappointed that the price of things are going up.
		I heard this morning the price of gas is going to go back up.
		And I'm very disappointed.
		I'm afraid we'll lose the midterm elections because people are unhappy with having to choose between groceries and other things they need.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And when you say things are going up, what has been going up for you, Elsie?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Is it groceries?
unidentified		Groceries?
		Okay.
		I was in Dollar Tree the other day.
		They're usually $1.25 for things.
		They were raising their prices to $1.50, which doesn't hurt much.
		But stuff at Walmart keeps going up, and it's getting hard for people.
		I'm 81 years old.
		I draw $1,400 a month for Social Security.
		But there's many, many people that draw less than I do and they're having a hard time.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Elsie.
		Let's talk to Lewis in North Carolina.
		Democrat, good morning, Lewis.
unidentified		All right, good morning.
		Look, you know, it's very ironic that this president, it seems to me, he's trying to put a wedge between India and America, which diplomacy with them is very important because of the way they used to be.
		They was dealing with Russia and China.
		And so we've been working with them and sending business over there to them and doing what we can to keep them as part of our ally.
		But Trump and Putin had talked, and Putin wants India back.
		So Trump is putting double tariffs all on India because he states that India is purchasing oil from them, Russia.
		But as you just read and stated, that Trump and Putin already came with some type of agreement of doing more business together.
		Isn't that ironic how he would do that to run India back to China and Putin when they were allies with America?
		This is just totally ridiculous.
		And we know what this is all about is to forget about the F-Steam that Trump is a child molester.
		Thank you, C-SPAN.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Brian in Barstow, California, Independent Line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Brian.
unidentified		Hello.
		All I would like to state is I live in Southern California, and I went to a Home Depot, okay, and I was walking into the Home Depot, and I looked to the right, and there were Hispanic, hardworking males hiding behind bushes.
		Okay, they're hiding behind bushes because they don't want to get taken and thrown back to their country and separated from their families.
		These are hardworking people.
		I lived in Ontario, California when I was a kid, and there would be guys lined up on the corners to go to work.
		So I think we need to start looking at the people who are hiring, and they're the ones who should be getting in trouble, like Donald Trump.
		Thank you for hearing me out, and have a blessed day.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And as we mentioned earlier, the Transportation Secretary, Sean Duffy, announced that his department is taking control of DC's Union Station from Amtrak.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		He made these remarks just a few moments ago.
sean duffy ▲ ● ▼		I also want to talk about Union Station.
		If you've heard the president and you've followed DC News, the President has been very concerned about crime in our nation's capital.
		He wants a capital that is worthy of the greatest country that's ever existed on the face of the earth, which means a capital that's clean, a capital that's safe, and a capital that doesn't have its parks overtaken by homelessness.
		And so we look at our equities.
		We are going to partner and invest in the streets of this city.
		But today, we are going to look at Union Station.
		And Union Station is, frankly, owned by DOT.
		We are going to take DOT from our partners back under DOT control, and we are going to make the investments to make sure that this station isn't dirty, that we don't have homelessness in Union Station.
		We want a place where businesses want to obtain leases and set up shop and serve the community of D.C., but also the people that travel into DC via train.
		But also, we want just, if you're out, you want to go for a great meal, you want to go shopping, you want to come to Union Station because it's gorgeous, it's beautiful, it's safe, it's a great experience.
		That's what we want to do for Union Station.
		So today we're announcing that we're going to take Union Station back under DOT control.
		Not a power plate, we've always had it, but we think that we can manage the property better, bring in more tenants, bring in more revenue, and that revenue is going to allow us to make investments in this beautiful building.
		It needs investments.
		It's been, I think, neglected for decades, and it's showing its age.
		And again, we want to make this place beautiful and the premier train station, not just in America, but the premier train station in the world.
		And that takes money.
		And again, it's this reform that's going to help us make that happen.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And that was just a few minutes ago.
		That was the Transportation Secretary, Sean Duffy, talking about DC's Union Station.
		Back to the calls.
		Dave, Las Vegas, Independent Line.
		Hi, Dave.
unidentified		Good morning.
		How are you doing?
		First of all, Trump is out of his mind.
		There's a book out called The Dangers of Donald Trump by Dr. Bandy Lee.
		Maybe you can look it up.
		It says 37 psychiatrists, and Dr. Bandy Lee is the head psychiatrist, says he's got dementia and he's going to get worse.
		And all he's doing is making war on his own people.
		He's hurting the middle class.
		He's taking away everything.
		Trump's going to take away everything.
		There's no law anymore.
		Because when he tried to overthrow the government, that is communist.
		When he rounds up people without due process, that is a communist.
		We're in big trouble, people.
		He gets in.
		We're not going to have anything.
		We had the best economy in the world.
		You might hate Biden, but we had the best economy in the world.
		And those tariffs, that's on every working-class America.
		So when he says he's going to raise tariffs during the 30s, they did that, and we had a depression.
		We're in big trouble.
		This guy is out of his mind, and the media doesn't talk about it.
		And number two, when this Epstein thing, he knew what was going on.
		He's probably, we can't say he is a molester, but it sure seems like it.
		So I don't know.
		You voted for this guy.
		He's a criminal.
		He was convicted of a sexual assault.
		Does he even have to register as a sex offender?
		I mean, he did it.
		So it's like, the worst thing about Trump, though, is he cut off the aid from sedan.
		You talk about somebody that scrolled live, took the food, and 200,000.
		You never hear it on the news.
		Maybe you can look it up.
		200,000 kids are dying in sedans of starvation because him and Johnson cut off the food that was already allocated.
		If you think that's a good person, he cares about us.
		He only cares about the rich.
		And that's my comment.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here's James in Akron, Ohio, Democrat.
		Hi, James.
		James, are you there?
unidentified		Yes, I'm here.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Okay, go ahead.
unidentified		I'm very, very, very disappointed in Donald Trump for several reasons.
		First of all, he's allowing Benjamin Netanyahu to starve people to death and to blink and kill everybody there.
		He has made no effort to try to solve this situation in Israel that Trump said he would do in a couple of days.
		We have the same thing in Ukraine.
		He was going to end that in a day.
		And we have people killing innocent people every day.
		And both of those situations, really, it hurts me so bad because it feels like the way things was done during slavery to the black people in America.
		And right now, Trump is promising everything and giving nothing but to the rich.
		We are here starving to death.
		I'm 77 years old.
		Everything that I have has gone up.
		He said gas is coming down.
		Gas don't mean a whole hell of a lot to me, excuse the language, but don't mean a lot to me because I'm not traveling that much.
		It means something maybe to the food that's been here.
		Everything, I just went to the grocery store yesterday, and I paid double what I paid last month just for the basic same food.
		I don't keep a list of what I'm buying, but I'm just looking at everybody.
		And everybody that voted for Trump, they should be ashamed of themselves.
		Everyone, especially the black people.
		These black men, 20% that voted for Trump because they didn't want a woman to rule over them, your mother raised you.
		We didn't have our father brought food home.
		Our father cooked.
		Our father brought things in for us to survive on.
		But the mothers raised us.
		And for a black man to say that he couldn't vote for Kamala Harris because black woman couldn't lead him, something's wrong.
		When the whole damn place is crazy.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, James.
		Here's Kay on the Republican line in Ohio.
		Good morning, Kay.
unidentified		Yes, I just want to make a comment.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Sure, go right ahead.
unidentified		Okay.
		First of all, Trump is the worst president this country has ever had.
		And his brain and mouth are full of feces.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And here's Bernard, Independent Line, Durham, North Carolina.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, I'd like to just make a couple of comments about Trump.
		I'm 83 years old.
		I've been in the Army.
		My son was in the Army and my dad was in the Army.
		So we have connections.
		You know, we want to put that out there.
		Number one.
		Number two, I'm formerly of New York City.
		I was born and raised in New York.
		And Trump was active there in New York when I was there in the 70s.
		And he's a guy.
		He's a bad man.
		He's really a bad man.
		If you look at his history, how his father and himself segregated their housing, they wouldn't let blacks in their housing.
		He's manipulative.
		He takes, he's like a bottom in belly.
		He puts things out there and the people go for it, and it's not real.
		Here's a man that, you know, he's been married three times.
		And what I'm saying is, it blows my mind.
		I call him Potty Mouth.
		And he see all these people that's following him, supposedly religious people, you got to question that.
		What's going on here?
		Is it really about being a good man, or is it about like a Robert E. Lee type person, individual?
		It's a sad state of affairs where we at.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And here's Bill in Waycross, Georgia, Democrat.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Bill.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
		I am fluent in English, Spanish, and Hebrew.
		I have friends in Israel that I've been talking to for 30 years.
		My thoughts come along with, you know, with regard to President Trump, you know, what you do is so loud.
		I can't hear what you say.
		And what happens right in front of the American people sit there and see it.
		And obviously, you know, I want to ask him there are people, whose side do you think he's on?
waylon ben livingston ▲ ● ▼		Is he on the side of Ukraine, a country that was invaded, or is he on the side of Russia where he can do business with Putin?
unidentified		He's going to wait.
		Meanwhile, Putin bombs Ukraine and so on and so forth.
		Another quote: you know, what am I to believe?
		What you're telling me or what I see with my own eyes?
		Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here's Kenny, a Republican in Barberton, Ohio.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Kenny.
unidentified		Good morning to you.
		Just to follow up on the people that's bashing President Donald Trump right now, you know, there's so many things going on, and he's trying to take care of so many things.
		And they say, well, he's not doing this and he's not doing that for certain areas and certain things.
		The man is only one.
		He's been in office for seven months.
larry nichols ▲ ● ▼		And I'll tell you what, he's trying.
unidentified		He's done better.
		The crime in Washington.
		And I understand they don't want him in the other cities.
		But when they come and they say the one man, he's not for the black man.
		Bologna, he's for everybody.
		Give him a chance.
		I know groceries are high.
		I'm going to let you go because we've only got two minutes here.
larry nichols ▲ ● ▼		I know groceries are high, but when you're paying people to start their job at a higher rate instead of earning a raise, I don't mean to start them at $7.50 an hour or $9 an hour.
unidentified		Give them a little bit.
larry nichols ▲ ● ▼		But when you start somebody and they think they deserve $15 an hour, show me that you work for my company to make me money.
unidentified		I work part-time for a local company.
		He has 100 stores in Ohio.
		No names, please.
		And I still, I worked through the pandemic.
		And when I go to a store, I don't care who it is, the grocery store, the drugstore, the dollar store, it don't matter.
		I see something on the floor, I pick it up because I know it's going to get smashed or damaged.
mike in chicago ▲ ● ▼		And I worked retail for three years only, part-time, after I retired from my regular job.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Kenny.
		This is Margaret in California, Line for Democrats.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I just wanted to say that migrants are serving our country by working on jobs Americans won't do.
		They're paying into Social Security and not reaping the benefits.
		Our Social Security is going to quit soon enough, and now it's getting less money into it.
		Plus, less of our farm workers, we have less farm workers, less carpenters building our homes, less sleeppackers, less menial jobs.
		That's what I've been thinking about.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Margaret.
		And we are going to be taking you over the next program right after this is the U.N. Security Council briefing that is set to start at 10 o'clock.
		We'll see how that goes.
		Meanwhile, we'll talk to Kevin in Maryland, Line for Democrats.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I'd like to thank you for allowing everybody to speak their minds.
		I guess it's my turn.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Kevin?
unidentified		Yes.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Yes, go right ahead.
unidentified		I'm sorry, I got confused.
unidentified		I'm watching the TV.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Don't watch the TV.
		There's a delay.
		Keep going.
		Just talk into your phone.
unidentified		My apologies.
		Just a couple things I'd like to say.
		You know, I don't like to hear the fact that Donald Trump thinks he has a mandate.
		There were 74 million people who voted against him.
		And we're basically discarded.
		There is an election, we hope, coming up, but I'm fearful about Trump's use of the military.
		The big, beautiful bill has a lot of money going to ICE and to Homeland Security.
		And this is going to be Donald Trump's army.
		And he's stoking the fires right now.
		And it's just a matter of time before true Americans stand up against it.
		And that's going to be his excuse to put the military on the streets and call martial law and affect the midterms.
		And it's sad.
		And I wish he would give back the American flag to the true patriots of this country.
		When he let those felons out of jail on the first day of office, the flag was desecrated.
		I have the image of a flag being used as a weapon against the Capitol police.
		And that's just too much.
		And I don't know.
		We've got a crack pot in the office, and if it's $1,200 of tax savings to give up your freedom in this country, you have cheapened the value of a true American.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Kevin.
		Here's Horace, a Democrat in Sherwood, Arkansas.
		You're on the air, Horace.
unidentified		Yes, good morning, Mimi.
		Good morning, Ceaseman.
		Yes, I was just listening in.
		I haven't heard too many Republicans call in today praising Trump for much of anything.
		I guess they finally started to see who the man is.
		I look at his record, and as I said, your records speak for who you are.
		His record doesn't show that he has accomplished much of anything except dividing people.
		He said he could stop the war between Ukraine and Russia in a week.
		It's been seven or eight months.
		He ain't been able to do anything that he said he could do.
		Since he couldn't do any of these things that he said he could do, now he wants to go mess with the people that don't have much of anything that's already depressed.
		Let's go take California from Gavin Newsom.
		Let's go take D.C. from that mayor of D.C. because these are the things that I can do and depress people.
		But the things that he needed to do, he ain't been able to accomplish any of it, Mimi.
		And the man is sick.
		I'm 78 years old.
		I saw him at a young age when he messed up the USFL, caused the USFL to fail.
		All them teams that was in the USFL was making money.
		He wanted his team, the New Jersey Generals, to be in the NFL.
		They went to court, lost, didn't get but one dollar, but he caused the USFL to fail.
		He ain't nothing but a failure, and the people need to recognize that man is a failure.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Horace.
		Here's Mary in Ohio, Republican.
		Hi, Mary.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yes, I want to put this out first.
		May 8th, 2024, there was a hearing on immigration, the illegal aliens coming into our country.
		Everybody hear this.
		They were costing our country, they still are, $182 billion a year since Joe Biden became president.
		They were only paying $31 billion a year in taxes.
		This is still going on, though I keep saying past.
		They only pay 17% of the costs that they occur to this country.
		Mainly the cost is policing.
		People talk about illegal aliens not committing crime.
		Well, if an illegal alien takes $1 away from the police to police our own people, they are hurting our country.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Mary.
		And we are going to end at this point.
		We'll take you over to the United Nations Security Council holding its monthly briefing on the situation in the Middle East.
		This is live coverage.
		Thanks, everybody, for watching.
		We'll see you again tomorrow.

▲