CSPAN - Washington Journal 08/26/2025

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Aug. 26, 2025 06:59-10:02 - CSPAN

03:02:45

Washington Journal 08/26/2025

Participants

Main

mimi geerges

cspan 41:12

Appearances

donald j trump

admin 02:44

glenn ivey

rep/d 01:23

jb pritzker

d 01:33

pam bondi

admin 00:39

tom homan

01:07

Clips

al green

rep/d 00:06

art bell

00:10

griff jenkins

fox 00:20

ken martin

d 00:26

larry pinkney

00:13

patty murray

sen/d 00:13

sean duffy

admin 00:04

will chamberlain

00:07

william lewis

00:08

Callers

bart in chicago

callers 00:14

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Speaker	Time	Text
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		Coming up on C-SPAN's Washington Journal, we'll take your calls and comments live.
		Then we'll discuss Trump administration efforts to invest directly in the private sector with Ryan Young of Competitive Enterprise and the Pew Research Center's Jeffrey Passell on a new report on the number of unauthorized immigrants in the United States.
		Washington Journal starts now.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		It's Tuesday, August 26th.
		Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Salvadoran immigrant living in Maryland, was deported to a prison in El Salvador in March and later returned to the U.S. Yesterday, he was taken into custody by ICE in Baltimore.
		Following his arrest, Homeland Security Secretary Christy Noam released a statement saying Garcia is being processed for removal to Uganda.
		This morning, we're talking about immigration enforcement and deportations.
		What are your thoughts on the Trump administration's actions on that front?
		Are you in support or opposed?
		Here are the numbers.
		Republicans 202-748-8001.
		Democrats 202-748-8000.
		And Independents 202-748-8002.
		You can also send a text to 202-748-8003.
		Include your first name in your city-state.
		And you can also post to social media, facebook.com slash C-SPAN, an ex at C-SPANWJ.
		Welcome to today's Washington Journal.
		We're glad you're with us.
		Start with the front page of the Washington Post with a picture here from that morning.
		That's Kilmar Abrego Garcia there in the middle with his wife next to him.
		The headline, Judge Keeps Abrego in U.S., it says, ICE arrested Kilmar Abrego Garcia on Monday, days after his release from criminal custody, a first step in the Trump administration's plan to deport him to Uganda, potentially before he faces trial on human smuggling charges.
		Trump officials had insisted Abrego, quote, would never go free in the U.S., and they blasted a federal judge's ruling in Tennessee that the government had failed to prove he was a flight risk or threat to the community.
		His freedom lasted less than 72 hours.
		Officers took Abrego into custody after he arrived at a required check-in with ICE in Baltimore.
		Whether the government will succeed in deporting him remains unclear.
		Hours later, U.S. District Judge Zinnis temporarily barred the administration from removing him until she can hold a hearing to ensure that the Trump administration is following the law.
		Let's take a look at this CBS News poll.
		Now, this is from July, and the headline is, CBS News poll finds support for Trump's deportation program falls.
		Americans call for more focus on prices, and here are the results of those polls.
		The question was, Trump administration is trying to deport.
		52% said more people than you expected.
		And about what you expected is at 37%, and fewer people than you expected is at 11%.
		So 52% said that the administration is deporting more people than expected.
		And who is Trump administration prioritizing for deportation?
		Dangerous criminals.
		In June, it was 53%.
		It's called now, which is in July, is at 44%, showing a drop.
		People who aren't criminals went up from June 47% to July at 56%.
		Yesterday, President Trump and Attorney General Pam Bondi addressed the arrest and planned deportation of Kilmar Abrego-Garcia at the Oval Office.
unidentified		Today, MS-13 gangbanger and human trafficker Kilmar Obrego-Garcia turned himself into ICE in Baltimore.
unidentified		Do you have any comment on this?
will chamberlain ▲ ● ▼		And why are the Democrats so emotionally attached to this man who beats his wife and is part of a terrorist organization?
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Because they think he's going to be good for votes, and I think he's very bad for votes.
		These people are deranged.
		He's not good for votes.
		He beat the hell out of his wife.
		His wife is afraid to even talk about him.
		She's been mauled by this animal.
		And, you know, through a system of liberal courts, you know, he's doing things.
		But no, we have that under control.
		And Pam has got that very much under control.
		Do you want to comment on it, Pam?
pam bondi ▲ ● ▼		No, no, we've got him under control.
		He will no longer terrorize our country.
		He's currently charged with human smuggling, including children.
		The guy needs to be in prison.
		He doesn't need to be on the streets like all these liberals want him to be.
		And as part of this operation here in D.C., we've also taken off MS-13 members.
		We've taken, I think just last night, we got a TDA guy off our streets right here, right around from where we all work.
		Another TDA member gone because of this project.
		So we're going to keep America safe from all of these foreign terrorist organizations, including Obrego Garcia.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Now, regarding Uganda, this is the Associated Press.
		It says Uganda agrees to take deported migrants from the U.S. if they don't have criminal records.
		It says that the ministry, the foreign ministry said in a statement that the agreement had been concluded, but that terms were still being worked out.
		It added that Uganda prefers that the migrants sent there be of African nationalities, but did not elaborate on what Uganda might get in return for accepting deportees.
		It says the U.S. Embassy in Uganda declined to comment on what it called diplomatic negotiations, but said that diplomats were seeking to uphold U.S. President Trump's policy of keeping Americans safe.
		However, in Washington, the State Department said Secretary of State Rubio had spoken by phone with the Ugandan president about migration and a number of other issues.
		Let's go to the phones now, Dahlia in Miami, Republican line.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I came to this country legally in 1960.
		I'm 78 years old and I am retired from ICE.
		President Biden opened the gate and let everyone in.
		We don't even know who they are.
		And now people are after Trump, what's wrong with the Democrats?
		I guess they don't want Americans to be safe.
		They don't care about the people in this country who are here legally.
		And I resent the fact that people are treating the people from ICE as if they were criminals.
		They are not.
		I worked for the federal government for 34 years.
		Dahlia, what did you do for ICE?
		I was an investigative assistant.
		I worked cases and I assisted the agents.
		I worked in Fujirets as a translator.
		And I went to several places overseas on cases of money laundering.
		So I know what I'm talking about.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And what country did you immigrate from in 1960?
unidentified		Cuba.
		That's another thing.
		People who think that communism and socialism is great, look at what they have done to my former country.
		They have destroyed it.
		And people want to vote for a socialist in New York City.
		I hope he wins.
		That way, you will get a taste of what socialism is.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Dahlia.
		And here's David, Democrat, Sacramento, California.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		How are you?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		One of the problems we have as Democrats face that too often our leaders walk into communities trying to tell the people what they want instead of asking them what they need.
		That has to change.
		Real leadership listens first, then build solutions with the people.
		Now, I know there's fear in the area when we see troops in some of our cities.
		Let me be clear.
		These men and women are not occupiers.
		They are following lawful orders and under the soldiers' code of conduct, which I lived under for 10 years in the military, they cannot and will not fire upon unarmed citizens.
		They also have the ability to refuse illegal orders.
		History taught us this at Mili, where soldiers were court-martial for following unlawful commands.
		That lesson has been burdened to their conscience forever.
		So when we see Donald Trump and his allies pushing illegal paragraphs or pulling the idea of martial law to silence election, let's be clear.
		The military oath is to the Constitution and not to one man.
		Our campaign as Democrats should not be about complaints or just opposition.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So David, regarding deportation, what are your thoughts on that?
unidentified		I believe that each person that is trying to be deported should have their day in court.
		There shouldn't just be rage that run into schools and churches and places on Home Depot.
		And there should be a lot of opportunity to show that they have a right to be or an opportunity to be here in America.
		Can't go running around picking people up that has masks and like that.
		I was born in the 60s.
		That's some of the stuff that I lived through.
		That type of thing where they would just pull a black man off the street and he would disappear.
		I lived through that.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, David, and we're taking your calls on the Trump administration's deportation efforts.
		What you think about that?
		Do you support?
		Do you oppose it?
		Our lines are bipartisan.
		So Republicans are on 202748-8001.
		Democrats 202-748-8000.
		And Independents 202748-8002.
		Here's Douglas in Ohio, Independent Line.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I'm totally against what Trump is doing.
		That crybaby Trump party of law and order might be behind.
		I mean, he is just disgusting with what he's pulling on these poor people.
		All they are is workers in the field.
		They're trying to support their families.
		Hey, you know, you try to get your family a better life no matter who you are.
		And this son of a gun, he wants to be a dictator so bad, he will pull out all the hooks to do it.
		And we got to get rid of him sooner or later.
		So let's make it sooner and make the country a lot better place.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		And here is Kilmar Abrego Garcia speaking yesterday morning outside of his outside of that ICE facility.
		And this is, he speaks in Spanish, and then the translator will speak.
unidentified		A to a la familia, también qui ansu frido, separaciones y que vienco constantemente por la menasa de ser separadas.
		Quiero decirle, anque la injusticia, no estabul piendo duro no perdamos la fe to all the families who have been separated or to all the families who have been threatened with family separation.
		This administration has hit us hard.
		But I want to tell you guys something.
		Dios está con nosotros.
		Dios nún cano dejara.
		Dios hace justicia.
		A toda la la injusticia que ang echo.
		God is with us, and God will never leave us.
		God will bring justice to all of the injustice that we are suffering.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And we're taking your calls and your social media posts.
		Teddy posted on Facebook support in all caps.
		Obviously, we want to make America great again.
		And Mike, what do you think in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, Democrat?
unidentified		Yeah, I'm concerned about people being deported off of the street with no, you don't have evidence that I mean, you're just picking people up randomly.
		It's something to be concerned about.
		It could happen.
		The thing that I'm mostly concerned about is I see mostly brown and black faces that's being picked up off the street.
		But, you know, you have a lot of white European people here in this country with visas that overstayed their visas too.
		Two visas, work visas, own it on and on.
		So what's make them different than the black and brown people whose visas they've overstayed their state?
		And one more thing: Trump is definitely a pedophile.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And regarding overstaying visas, so this is Axios with the headline: Trump administration vetting 55 million U.S. visa holders for potential violations.
		Here's what the article says.
		The Trump administration said Thursday it's scrutinizing the records of all U.S. visa holders for potential violations that could result in deportations from overstays to terrorist activities.
		It says that President Trump has made immigration enforcement a key priority during his second administration, aggressively cracking down on undocumented immigrants and revoking visas for students for reasons such as pro-Palestinian activism.
		That's on Axios, if you'd like to read that.
		And this is Henrietta, Fort Pierce, Florida, Republican.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I just want to say that I absolutely am behind what the president is doing.
		We need to get the illegals out of the country.
		We don't want them here.
		They artificially lower wages.
		In addition to that, they take up housing that's meant for American citizens.
		Also, the illegal children that are in school take up space and are actually robbing American citizens from, oh, you hung up, pardon me.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Henrietta, I'm still here.
unidentified		Thank you.
		They're robbing American citizens of the privilege of attention, full attention from their teachers.
		And it's unacceptable, unacceptable.
		And that young man who talked about black and brown faces missing and pulling them off the street, well, guess what?
		The black and brown people are the ones who invaded our country.
		In addition to that, I believe that Trump should round up the Russians who are here illegally, everyone who is here illegally, regardless of their color.
		We are totally sick of this invasion and the illegals who are taking support from American citizens, taking money that does not belong to them.
		And these fools that are like, oh my God, they're just coming here for a better opportunity.
		Well, guess what?
		They should stay home and make their country great again.
		I had the opportunity to listen to a young woman who was from Venezuela who wanted to run for office, but she's here telling us to worry about socialism.
		So, you know, after the speech, I went up to her and I said, you know, congratulations on your speech.
		But I have one question.
		Why are you not home in your country fighting for your country like we fought for our country?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What did she say?
unidentified		It's unacceptable.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What did she say?
		Pardon me?
		So what did she say?
		That Venezuela is a dictator.
unidentified		I found it.
		That I would actually have the temerity to ask her a consequential question.
		She had no answer.
		All she wanted to do was come here and free load off of us.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here's John Donellan, Florida, Independent Line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, John.
unidentified		Good morning.
		The lady in front of me said it pretty good.
		I'd like to just add also that all the illegal aliens that have poured over the border under the Joe Biden administration, that the amount of poor women that have been raped and murdered by them.
		Also in Florida, we had that Indian truck driver who couldn't speak a word of English, was given a CDL by California, killed three people on the highway.
		I mean, the blood and carnage that is being wrecked on this country by the Biden administration, the blood will always be on their hands.
		The lady in front of me was right.
		We can't afford to bring these people in.
		We have plenty of Americans that need our help who are less fortunate than, you know, we are, and that can use all these services that are being used by these illegal aliens.
		You know, you look at all these states that are $100 billion in shortfall because they're putting these kids through school and social services and putting these people up in hotels.
		It's unsustainable.
		It's just unsustainable.
		So I'm all for what President Trump and his administration is trying to get done.
		I mean, all the extra money that we have, which we don't, because we're $37 trillion in debt, should be going to American citizens who need a helping hand up.
		Instead, we're giving a helping hand up to illegal aliens, and we're just discarding our American citizens to fend for themselves.
		It's unacceptable in a country like the United States of America, and we need to get this thing cleaned up and start helping the people who deserve it, which are the United States citizens of this country and not illegal aliens who have poured over the border in the last four years under the Biden administration, who has massive amounts of blood on their hands.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		We got that point, John.
		And here is Border Czar Tom Homan.
		He was defending actions on Garcia on Fox News from Sunday.
griff jenkins ▲ ● ▼		Abreo Garcia's lawyer says the government is, quote, weaponizing the immigration system against him.
griff jenkins ▲ ● ▼		My question is, what's your response to accusations that you're weaponizing the immigration system and will, in fact, Abrego Garcia soon be heading to Uganda?
tom homan ▲ ● ▼		He is absolutely going to be deported in this country.
		He's not going to walk the streets of this nation.
		So he can enjoy the little time he has with his family.
		And for the person who says we're not going to separate family, well, his family can go with him because he's leaving.
		He's going to be deported.
		Look, he's a criminal alien.
		He's a member of MS-13, which is now a designated terrorist.
		He's a white beater.
		He's a human trafficker.
		He's been indicted for human trafficking and alien smuggling.
		He's a bad person.
		He's not going to be here.
		He's been ordered removed twice.
		Order removed by two different federal judges.
		He's going to leave this country in the very near future and his family can go with him.
		I can't see who was talking before the soundbites, but whoever said we're taking advantage of the broken immigration system, what do they do?
		What do those people do the last four years about this broken immigration system?
		They let 10.5 million people cross that border.
		Sex trafficking, women, and children all-time high.
		Overdose tests of fat in an all-time high.
		Number of terrorists all-time high.
		They didn't do anything to fix it.
		President Trump is keeping his promise to American people to enforce a law, and that's what we're doing.
		We'll make this country safer every day by removing people like Abrego Garcia.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And on social media, Cindy says this, I support due process.
		Unmasked, officially trained policing officials, deportation of criminals.
		Do not support using our military unconstitutionally while holding persons without properly identifying and evidence of crimes in private prisons to enrich the prison owners.
		Steve says, definitely approve.
unidentified		They came in illegally, so they have no rights.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Send them all back to the country of origin and ban their return.
		And here is Helen in Long Island in Independent Line.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yeah, I have a couple of things to say.
		Don't hang up on me, please.
		I have a couple of things.
		These people are supposed to be Christians and angelicas.
		Well, in the Bible, in three places, especially malicious three, it says, I will come to you in judgment.
		I will be ready to witness against sorceries, adulteries, and swear force against who opposes the hard worker, the widow, and the father, and against those who deny justice to the recent aliens, which are immigrants.
		And another thing, you talk Trump keeps saying that bringing criminals here, he brought Putin, the man that kills children and mothers here.
		So I don't even want to hear that.
		He brought a Putin and put out the red carpet.
		I'm sorry.
		I don't mean to get upset, but all right, I'm done.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And here's Alex in Brooklyn, New York, Democrat.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Alex.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		Good morning.
		I just want to basically reply to the woman that says that immigrants are taking up space here.
		I am of Colombian descent.
		I grew up in New York City.
		I have grown up in New York City my entire life.
		I was the wave of Colombians that came here during the criminal wave of the 80s that destroyed my country.
		And my parents came here so that we could make a better life.
		I own a business.
		I have people that work for me, that pay taxes.
		During the COVID epidemic, we made gowns when all those people were in their houses sheltering in place when we had no idea what was going on.
		I was making 20,000 gowns a week so that hospitals could have gowns so people could be protected.
		You people out there that listen to C-SPAN have been somehow manipulated into thinking that we are somehow less than humans.
		And the moment you do that, you start degrading what this democracy is about.
		This country was built by immigrants, waves of immigrants that came from Europe.
		All you people calling right now telling Hispanics to go back to their countries is no different than your forefathers that came here after the war, before the war, to make a better lives for themselves.
		The Italian migration wave, the Cuban migration wave, the Irish migration wave.
		The largest German migration wave came to this country.
		People that were fleeing the destruction that was left over from Hitler and the Nazis in Europe.
		And that kind of ideology is what you people are spouting now.
		And what I will finish by is saying this.
		If you people out there allow this to happen here, then you do not deserve a democracy because that is what you're building.
		You are dehumanizing people that are coming here for a better life.
		If there are changes that need to be made so that people aren't freeloading as you say they are, then you can do that.
		But do not dehumanize people that are coming here with good intentions to work to build better lives for themselves and their children.
		The construction, the people that work in agriculture, the people that work in restaurants, people that become firefighters, policemen, police women, people that become soldiers, people that dog.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Alex, I want to ask you about what the previous caller said, which is why don't they stay in their own country and improve their own country?
		Why don't they run for office?
		Why don't they work there and have a better life there instead of coming here?
unidentified		What do you say to that?
		Because the policy of this country, why do you think so many people came here during the 90s?
		Why do you think MS-13 was built here?
		It was made here in the United States, even though people don't want to maybe study the facts.
		But the migration trend that happened here because of NAFTA, NAFTA destroyed Mexico.
		If you'd want to start putting these points together, you can start looking at the reasons why.
		Look, I am not trying to blame anybody.
		There is a reason why the United States has a fentanyl crisis because we have a drug epidemic in this country.
		This country feeds off of the addiction of people and it makes people addicted to drugs.
		Fentanyl is an example of that.
		Cocaine was an example of that in the 80s.
		I came here, my parents came here because of the crime wave that happened in Colombia because of the demand of cocaine here in the United States.
		You have people in Mexico now that their economy was destroyed because of NAFTA.
		I grew up in the garment industry.
		I can tell you in the 90s, when Clinton passed NAFTA, it destroyed Mexico.
		And a lot of the countries in Latin America were unfortunately victims of a great deal of, I'm not saying it's completely the United States' fault, but their economies were affected largely by the United States supporting economies that dealt with dictatorships.
		It's the reality.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Alex, I just got to move on.
		This is Don in Shelton, Washington, Republican.
		Good morning, Don.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I'll be brief.
		There are circumstances, and there are people.
		There are people in bizarre circumstances, and there are people that are in regulated circumstances.
		And in this case, in regards to Mr. Garcia, and what I've just said is that one thing is for sure.
		There is a relative reason why he has been sent to where he's being sent to, and that will prevail.
		And that is the fact that he needs to recognize you, Gond.
		Duh.
		You gone.
		He is gone.
		Duh.
		Thank you very much.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And here's Ryan in Edmond, Oklahoma, Independent Line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Ryan.
unidentified		Hey, good morning.
		Thank you for taking my call, and thank you for serving us on C-SPAN.
		I just wanted to say, you know, I love the idea of immigration.
		America is a melting pot.
		But what I wonder is why isn't the media narrative focused on these employers who are exploiting migrants and immigrants without providing them a proper path to citizenship?
		You know, we always talk about how they're supporting our country, and they truly are.
		They're the fabric of our country.
		But why aren't the employers being penalized or held accountable to offer these folks a way to citizenship?
		And that's really all I have to say.
		Thank you so much.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And here's Ray in Georgetown, South Carolina, Democrat.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, C-SPAN.
		On the immigration, all nations of people, all nationalities that came to the United States for a better life.
		It started years ago.
		So why does it so much differ now?
		People come to this country looking for a better life.
		They come, they work hard.
		We had a crime in this country committed by America.
		What about them?
		What illegal alien went into the school and shot the school up?
		Those are Americans.
		They have a laugh to say.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And this is LaKelle, Jessup, Georgia, Republican.
unidentified		How are you doing?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		That's great.
		I somewhat, I favor Mr. Trump's deportation efforts as well as somewhat in opposition to some measures.
		I say that to say that the prejudice that hit the United States during the Biden administration, it kind of like offset some other prejudices.
		And in doing such, it created a type of indifference towards a lot of factors as well as towards the federal government within itself.
		Now, the color of the female that stated immigrants, they need to go back to their own school, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
		And brown and black people invaded the United States.
		That's negative.
		That's false.
		Haphazardly speaking, statistically based, in most cases, people are flying to America from Europe, from England, from Australia, from London, etc.
		Now the travel ban, it was incorporated in an effort to respect the ingenuity of America, but at the same time try to say African Americans are suffocating.
		Immigrants are suffocating economically wise.
		However, if individuals who are like $100,000 bank can come in at luxury at will and suppress the economy, then that will kind of like be an infringe upon civil liberties.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, look how and this was at that same press conference yesterday in Maryland Democratic Representative Glenn Ivey spoke discussing Garcia's fate.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here he is.
glenn ivey ▲ ● ▼		When I worked at the Department of Justice, when they made a mistake, they would acknowledge it, correct it, and move on.
		This started with a mistake.
		They picked him up.
		They deported him.
		They knew it was illegal.
		They acknowledged it because the judge said he could stay here.
		But instead of acknowledging it and bringing him back, they said, we can't bring him back.
		They lied.
		The Supreme Court said, no, he gets his day in court.
		Bring him back.
		But they didn't want to back down and just do what the Supreme Court ordered them to do.
		So they charged him with crimes in Tennessee that came out of nowhere.
		And then they brought him back immediately.
		So we knew they could bring him back, right?
		We know they can give him justice, right?
		But they keep fighting it.
		So he went in front of another judge in Tennessee, and what did that judge say?
		He looked at the case that they charged him with and said, you know what?
		I think he should be able to go home.
		I think he should be able to stay home.
		I think he should have his day in court, and we're going to let him go back to his house.
		So he should be in his house this morning, not worried about getting deported anywhere, not worrying about injustice anywhere, not worried about the pressure and the vengeance of the Department of Justice and the Trump administration.
		He should be able to get his due process and go forward from there, right?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And if you're interested in why Kilmar Abrego Garcia won't get deported back to El Salvador, take a look at this NPR article.
unidentified		It says this, sorry.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		It says, Abrego Garcia on Monday filed a lawsuit challenging his current detention and any deportation to Uganda or any other country until a trial is held at an immigration court.
		In a statement after his detention, Christina, we talked about that, he would go to Uganda.
		At the core of Abrego Garcia's case is the question of due process under President Trump's aggressive crackdown on undocumented immigrants in the U.S.
		The man was arrested in March and sent to a notorious prison in El Salvador despite a 2019 court order barring his deportation to the Central American country because of the, quote, well-founded fear of gang persecution there.
		The Trump administration conceded Abrego Garcia's removal was an administrative error and returned him to the U.S. in June to face criminal charges.
		He was indicted on two charges, including conspiracy to transport undocumented immigrants and unlawful transportation of migrants without legal status.
		The Trump administration has said it intends to deport Abrego Garcia to Uganda despite the latter government indicating it prefers to receive people from other African countries and individuals without criminal records.
		It said that attorneys, his attorneys in a court filing, the U.S. government has offered the possibility of deporting him to Costa Rica if he pled guilty to the criminal charges against him and served the imposed sentence.
		His attorneys have said that move is coercive and vindictive.
		This is Joe, Democrat in Oklahoma City.
		Good morning, Joe.
unidentified		Hey, thanks so much.
		Let me give a shout out to Randy Rhodes.
		She's a real champion of truth.
		Let me go through a very quick education to some of your voters, some of your viewers that are voters that tend to vote Republican.
		Donald Trump, when he was in the very first time, he didn't work to pass laws to upgrade our immigration system because Republicans for decades have refused to do that.
		What he did is he did executive orders and he threatened the government of Mexico with tariffs.
		This was back in 2016.
		So the Mexican government was really the ones keeping the immigrants away from seeking asylum or coming into the United States.
		Trump also passed executive orders making it where our border people could take children, babies, three-year-olds away from their parents.
		So if you were going to come here to America, a lot of migrants stopped trying to get in here.
		Well, when Joe Biden beat Trump by a legal vote in 2020, all Joe Biden did was get rid of the crazy executive orders.
		And Mexico, no more fears of tariffs, let those people that were being held in camps and stuff through.
		And there was a rush at the border.
		Well, under normal law, if somebody shows up at the border and says, hey, I'm seeking asylum, they were just overwhelmed.
		So they were giving people cheap cell phones to keep track of them.
		So there was a rush at the border, but look it up.
		Everybody that's Republican out there, look it up.
		Joe Biden deported, didn't allow into our country 4.8 million people.
		Well, does that sound like an open border?
		They're wide open.
		They're handing them cash.
		They're giving them hotel rooms.
		Stop with the lies and look up facts.
		Look up how many people came in under Biden.
		Look up how many people he deported or removed from the country.
		Let the truth sink in.
		Then you'll realize what a huge leafblower of lies Trump is.
		Thanks, guys.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Well, later on the Washington Journal, we will have an expert from Pew talking about immigration numbers.
		So be sure to stay with us for that.
		Here's Chris in a Philadelphia Independent Line.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I struggle with this whole issue because my father is an injured Vietnam veteran.
		I'm 50 years old.
		I'm currently taking care of him.
		And I feel like the immigrants haven't done their share as far as defending this country.
		Like the last caller just said, I think a lot of us visually are seeing them laying around begging for money, grown men.
		Then they use the children sometimes to offset that.
		And I feel for them.
		I'm a human.
		What I think needs to happen in our country is instead of closing the door, they need to build the opportunity.
		Put them in the army.
		Train them.
		Make them fight for what they want.
		You know, look at what's happening in Venezuela.
		Millions of people are signing up.
		Offer that here.
		Offer them, you know, a way to transition.
		There's so many people with degrees in language and schooling.
		Bill, why aren't we having a school that teaches people English?
		You know, it's just like Trump says that he's investing in AI.
		I have to laugh because if you ever notice him standing there holding up a billboard behind him, you know, these are the numbers.
		These are the numbers.
		Where's your investment in AI?
		We are America, and it's 2025, and you're holding up a billboard.
		And as far as my point about war, Donald Trump's never fought a day in his life except against the alleged sex crimes.
		So this country really needs to look at opportunity instead of closing the doors.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So, Chris, is it your idea that undocumented immigrants should be allowed to join the U.S. military?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Because right now, you either have to be a citizen or a green card holder.
unidentified		I think they should develop a program, just like they have the National Guards or something.
		Develop a program.
		You know, come on, Hank Seth.
		Let's see you do some work.
		I see you stand up with your hair perfectly defined, but do some work that would be beneficial for both the country and for the aliens.
		Because we got to accept that, yeah, and try to try to pinpoint and pick every one of them and throw them out.
		Let's try to build our country.
		I don't see that happening.
		I'm 50 years old.
		I see cuts happening, education going away.
		Where is all this money going?
		Elon Musk, somebody's got to start to take charge here.
		You know, you want to make America great again?
		Well, start by showing us how AI works.
		You know how many millions of elderly folks have no clue what we're even talking about?
		I had a caller yesterday, heard her call it A1.
		It's not a state sauce.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Chris.
		Here is a text we got from Skippers, Virginia.
		Yorf says, I support Trump's deportation effort, especially at deporting foreign gang members.
		But making the hiring of an undocumented worker a felony would be more effective policy, as many would self-deport.
		Connie in Colorado says, Homan is on a power trip and deporting must get to process first and should never include jailing, deporting, jailing.
		Deporting means leaving the U.S., not being sent without proof of a crime.
		Being here illegally is a civil case, not criminal.
		Let's talk to Mario in Brooklyn, New York, Republican.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, I like to say it seems like everybody's got an answer to what's happening.
		I think what's happening, I'm currently, I think what's going on is they're allowing immigrants in, and they're not scouting them.
		So they're allowing all these immigrants that are coming here.
		And basically what they're doing is they're abusing our system.
		Immigration, yes, our country was built on immigration.
		But, you know, when my father came from Italy migrated here, he came with the right intentions to build a life, to build a future for his family.
		I don't think that's what's going on currently.
		And I do agree with what Trump is doing, to be honest with you, because we've got a lot of immigrants here that are just causing more chaos than anything else.
		And that's all I have to say.
		Thank you and have a lovely day.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And this is Eddie, New York City Democrat.
		Good morning, Eddie.
unidentified		Yes, this is Eddie right here.
		Look, when I was born in Guantanamo, Bay, Cuba, right, when I came here as a child, 1975, my family took us in until my mother could find a place to live.
		When I came here as a child, nobody gave me $9,000 cards to get food.
		Nobody put me in a beautiful hotel with these people.
		Go ahead.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Sorry, I just wanted to ask, what was the situation in 1975 as far as immigration from Cuba?
unidentified		Well, well, like I said, you had a Cold War going on, so we came in here as Cuban refugees, and I got a resident alien card, and then 89, I became an American citizen.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So at that time, Cubans were allowed to claim refugee status then and come legally into the United States.
unidentified		Mayor legally, but it's not like what Biden did.
		He opened up the borders, and then you had all these crazy Venezuelan gangs terrorizing half of America.
		That's not the way it was back in the 70s.
		We had a Cold War, but we came in the legal way.
		And I became an American citizen the legal way.
		You know, you're giving these people all these $9,000 cards, putting them in a hotel.
		Come on now.
		When the majority of New Yorkers in New York City is homeless, that's not fair.
		That's not fair.
		That's not the America I remember when I came here as a child.
		That's not the America I remember.
		I mean, they had no choice but to shut down the border.
		They had no choice but to round out these people out here because New York City got enough crime as it is.
		I mean, you know, the Bronx is a shooting gallery where I live at.
		This place is a shooting gallery, man.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Eddie.
		And some other news for you from NBC.
		Trump says he's removing Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook, citing his administration's allegations of mortgage fraud.
		Cook, the first black woman to serve on the Federal Reserve Board, responded by saying she has done nothing wrong and Trump cannot fire her.
		This is Mark in Newport, Kentucky, Republican.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, I was just wanting to talk about that Garcia guy.
		Why the Democrats is using him for a poster child?
		It is unbelievable.
		He's a woman beater.
		Can you imagine how many kids that he transport over here that may be in some type of a sex scam or something?
		I just think it's disgusting what they're doing.
		And that's all I got.
		Thanks.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And here is Christopher, Pikesville, Maryland, Independent Line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Hey, good morning.
		How are you doing?
		Thanks for taking my call.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Go right ahead, Christopher.
unidentified		Yeah, I noticed that all the illegal aliens are brown or from south of the border.
		Yeah, I know they got illegal aliens.
		Like you got Russians, you got a lot of European illegal aliens.
		How come, I wonder why he's not going after illegal aliens that are light-colored skin.
		You got Japanese, Chinese, up in New York and San Francisco working in these sweatshops.
		How come they're not being going after?
		If you're going to go after illegal illness, just don't go after one race or one color.
		Go after all of them.
		That's all I want to say.
		Just if you're going to be honest, if you're going to be fair and balanced, do that.
		Just don't go after one race.
		There's a whole bunch of illegal illnesses.
		They may not come through the border, but they're coming in anyway.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And we're talking about the Trump administration's deportation efforts and getting your views on that for the next 10, 15 minutes.
		Let's talk to Iris, Rochester, New York, Democrat.
		Good morning, Iris.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I just want to say in regards to deportation, Donald Trump is going way off the books about deportation.
		This country was made with immigrants, black people.
		You know, what he needs to concentrate on is stop being a dictator and stop going into these cities the way he's going into these, the black cities.
		That's all I need to say.
		If I get it, you know, come on.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And here's an there's a an article here from Time magazine.
		It's the headline is, The people judges say Trump has wrongly deported so far.
		This is from June, so it's from about two months ago.
		And the article says, as the Trump administration seeks to deliver on the president's campaign promise to enact the largest deportation program in history, carrying out a surge of immigration arrests and working to ramp up the pace of deportations, officials have wrongfully removed multiple people from the country.
		It says that the courts have directed his administration to bring back at least four people it has deported.
		And you can read about that in time.com.
		John, Rockville, Maryland, Republican.
		Hello, John.
unidentified		Hello, good morning.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Go right ahead.
unidentified		Yeah, no, I mean, I just wanted to talk a little bit about the situation because it's a little, it's complicated because, you know, I'm an immigrant.
		And I, you know, I see white people come to this country, but I came here the legal way.
		I saw my parents, you know, really work hard and, you know, decide to stay here only the legal way.
		But I also know a lot of people that struggle outside the country.
		The problem is that when people start taking advantage of the opportunity to be in this country, I worked as an interpreter in the DMV area.
		And in the last four years, I came across a lot of people that, you know, just kind of had just arrived into the country.
		And in about a week or two, they were already given, you know, medical insurance on top of, you know, a lot of the stories really lined up with each other.
		Everybody was telling the same story of how they came here.
		So in my opinion, you know, a lot of people do need to come here.
		However, do a lot of people have a valid story to come here?
		I'm not 100% sure about that.
		That's all I wanted to share.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, John, and this is Darlene, a Democrat in Rocky Mountain, North Carolina.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I wanted to say that it is really bad that Trump is doing what he's doing to immigrants.
		His family came here as immigrants, and it's not right.
		And we all were beautiful and good to go until he became president again.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And Kristen in Clifton Park, New York, Independent Line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Kristen, you're on the air.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Good morning.
		I hear a lot of people calling in and citing information that is not factual.
		Immigrants are not being issued debit cards with $9,000, $8,000, any thousand dollar amounts.
		I hear people citing this both today and yesterday.
		It is just not true.
		And if that's the basis for someone's belief that issue with immigrants, well, it's just not correct.
		And secondly, I hear immigrants calling in and saying that people are, or people who have grandparents or parents who are immigrants saying that people are coming to this country trying to immigrate now for reasons that are different than their grandparents or their parents came to this country for.
		And, you know, I think that's not correct either.
		It's just sad that immigrants are being demonized in our country.
		Our country is built on that we're a nation of immigrants, and I do not support Donald Trump's agenda.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Kristen.
		And Michael in Greenville sent us a text along those lines.
		He says he opposes it's criminal and inhumane and goes against everything America has stood for for 250 years.
		Getting rid of criminals and gang members is one thing.
		Kidnapping grandmas and veterans and legal citizens is entirely unacceptable.
		And Robin Huntington, West Virginia, says, I'm in favor of deportation in certain circumstances if those being considered for deportation are afforded due process.
		Also, why can't lawmakers pass comprehensive immigration reform?
		Remember when Trump quashed that in the months leading up to the election?
		We're taking your views on the administration's deportation efforts.
		Here's John Bayport, New York, Republican.
		Good morning, John.
unidentified		Yeah, good morning.
		I'm calling about the veterans.
		I'm a veteran from Vietnam veteran, and I recently have a 100% rating for disability.
		I believe that the government shouldn't allow one illegal immigrant in this country until all the homeless veterans are taken off the streets and giving a proper home or place to stay.
		And they should be able to get their benefits without going through all the nonsense that I had to go through.
		It's just not fair.
		And these people fought for their country, and they should take priority over these people that are coming in illegally.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		John, I've got a question for you because this was brought up by a previous caller about, do you think that undocumented immigrants should be allowed to enroll in the U.S. military?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What do you think about that as a vet?
unidentified		No, I don't.
		You have to be a citizen.
		You have to love this country.
		These people don't love this country.
		They come in here for benefits and for a better way of life, which is fine if you do it legally.
		But what about all the veterans that are homeless?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We got that.
		And here's Evelyn in Baltimore, Democrat.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		You know, I called in because I hear everybody calling in, especially the Republicans talking about people need to go back where they come from and everything.
		Everybody that's here in this country, well, for as long as this country has been in existence, came from somewhere else.
		And I don't understand how we got all these other countries from the northern board.
		I guess I know Germany, Poland, France.
		And you mean to tell me none of these people here illegal?
		And I'd like y'all to do a statistics on how many murders are done by foreigners opposed to Americans.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And here's Nelson in Upper Marlboro, Maryland, Independent.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Nelson.
unidentified		Hey, good morning, and thank you for taking my call.
		I don't support the deportation of immigrants who are law, like folks who've come here.
		They just want to build a family.
		We see them every day to work at restaurants.
		They're building our roads.
		They're working in our schools.
		They're cleaners everywhere.
bart in chicago ▲ ● ▼		Those people, I am a proponent that if you haven't committed a crime, you haven't done anything that's a moral torpitude because immigration law actually states if you've committed a crime and that is a moral torpitude.
unidentified		So it's punishable over three years, then you should be sent back to your country.
		That's our immigration law.
		So for all the Republicans who are calling, we actually have a law that says if you've committed a crime, you should be deported.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And if the crime is a moral looks like we might have lost you, Nelson.
		Sorry about that.
		Gary, Kentucky, Republican Lion, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Once again, the public is misinformed by the media.
		It's illegals that are being deported, not anybody else.
		Now, a few of them might get caught up in a tangle if they're hanging with the wrong people at the wrong time, but it's illegal that are in this country that are being deported.
		And everybody's getting in a big uproar over this.
		And those laws, those laws that both sides, Democrats and Republicans, voted for to support these deportations.
		So once again, it's illegals that are in this country.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Gary, and this is Ricky in Dumbray, Oklahoma, Line for Democrats.
unidentified		Yes, I'd like to make a statement.
		I believe they are to be allowed immigrants to serve in the military to make a better life for themselves and their families.
		And all these Republicans that keep coming up with this Trump Trump made better, he ain't made nothing better.
		He's made this country weaker.
		And that's all I've got to say.
		Bye.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And here's Patricia, an independent in Chesapeake, Virginia.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, Patricia.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air.
unidentified		Yes, I was just listening to what your other callers were saying, and I can't believe how far they're going with who should be in this country and deported and all this kind of stuff.
		I realize there are a lot of immigrants who came here to make this country what it is.
		But you're still forgetting who the sole people were here in the beginning, which everybody forgets about.
		That's the Native Americans.
		And what rights do they have?
		None.
		So when everybody's here talking about all these immigrants and how they need to be out of here, the immigration, as far as what I can tell, the Democrats are using them for their better efforts.
		And that's just going to pick their pears and apples and all that kind of stuff.
		And that came straight from Washington State.
		So we need to look at that.
		I don't think that's fair.
		And that's being overlooked too.
		But Native Americans, they've been overlooked, veterans and everybody else.
		So everybody just needs to stand back and get a better picture of what's going on here.
		And our Native Americans, as well as our veterans, all need to be taken care of.
		And they've never been taken care of, Native Americans.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And on the line for Democrats in Germantown, Maryland, John, you're on.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		Well, I would say that people don't really realize that legal immigration, the people are required to have sponsors.
		They're not allowed to be on welfare or any other program like that.
		And these people that are coming in illegally are claiming asylum, which they really, if at all, maybe not even a half of 1% would even qualify.
		And this is a good question.
		John, when you say legal immigrants are not allowed to be on public assistance, they well they have to have a sponsor, and a sponsor is responsible to make payment if they have any type of that they actually go into that.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		But they are eligible for Medicaid.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		They're eligible for SNAP benefits.
unidentified		Well, then that's changed because how the law was originally written, they were not.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And let's talk to Clenn in Apex, North Carolina, Republican line.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yeah, morning, Mimi.
		I just want to challenge a woman that spoke earlier, you know.
		And it's true that when Biden was in power, all the immigrants that came in, they were selling some of the luxury hotels in New York.
		So obviously, we were taking care of those people.
		So it is true that they abuse the system, especially after we have so many immigrants, you know, having crossing the border.
		So that's you got to be fair.
		And what happened the last couple of years before Trump came to power was very unbelievable.
		I mean, it's like a third world country.
		People just crossed the border.
		And I think that was not right.
		I mean, you immigrate, you come to the U.S., you got to go through the whole process, be a good citizen, and don't do the best thing on the crime, kill people, stuff.
		That's what I wanted to say.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And we will continue the conversation about immigration later on the Washington Journal.
		We'll have Pew Research Center's Jeffrey Pacell discussing a new report on the number of unauthorized immigrants in the United States and trends in immigration.
		But up next, we've got the Competitive Enterprise Institute's Ryan Young discussing the Trump administration's efforts to directly invest in the private sector.
		We'll be right back.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		So you interviewed the other night.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I watched it about two o'clock in the morning.
unidentified		There was a little thing called C-SPAN, which I don't know how many people were watching.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Don't worry, you were in prime time too, but they happened to have a little rera.
patty murray ▲ ● ▼		Do you really think that we don't remember what just happened last week?
patty murray ▲ ● ▼		Thank goodness for C-SPAN, and we all should review the tape.
unidentified		Everyone wonders when they're watching C-SPAN what the conversations are on the floor.
al green ▲ ● ▼		I'm about to read to you something that was published by C-SPAN.
sean duffy ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of things that Congress fights about, that they disagree on.
al green ▲ ● ▼		We can all watch that on C-SPAN.
unidentified		Millions of people across the country tuned into C-SPAN.
		That was a major C-SPAN moment.
		If you watch on C-SPAN, you're going to see me physically across the aisle every day, just trying to build relationships and try to understand their perspective and find common ground.
patty murray ▲ ● ▼		And welcome aboard to everybody watching at home.
		We know C-SPAN covers this a lot as well.
		We appreciate that.
unidentified		And one can only hope that he's able to watch C-SPAN on a black and white television set in his prison cell.
		This is being carried live by C-SPAN.
		It's being watched not only in this country, but it's being watched around the world right now.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Mike said before, I happened to listen to him, he was on C-SPAN 1.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		That's a big upgrade, right?
unidentified		If you ever miss any of C-SPAN's coverage, you can find it anytime online at c-span.org.
		Videos of key hearings, debates, and other events feature markers that guide you to interesting and newsworthy highlights.
		These points of interest markers appear on the right-hand side of your screen when you hit play on select videos.
		This timeline tool makes it easy to quickly get an idea of what was debated and decided in Washington.
		Scroll through and spend a few minutes on C-SPAN's points of interest.
		Washington Journal continues.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back to Washington Journal.
		We're joined now by Ryan Young, senior economist at the Competitive Enterprise Institute, to talk about U.S. direct investment in private companies.
		Ryan, welcome to the program.
unidentified		Thanks for having me on.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So just start with telling us about the Competitive Enterprise Institute and what position your organization takes on that intersection between private industry and the federal government.
unidentified		CEI is a think tank headquartered in Washington, although I'm out here in Chicago.
unidentified		We focus mainly on regulatory issues and we are against the mixing of government and the private sector as much as possible.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Well, here is the news on that.
		This is CNBC.
		U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel as Trump expands control over the private sector.
		Can you explain how that came about?
unidentified		It's part of a long process.
		The semiconductor industry has been subsidized by Washington for decades now.
		And partially as a result of that, Intel has not been doing so well to the point where in the CHIPS Act that passed under the previous administration, Intel received several billion dollars of subsidies.
		And now the Trump administration is converting that money that it gave to Intel in the form of subsidies into a 10% ownership stake.
		So Intel is now a 10% government-owned business.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So I would take it that you are also against subsidizing private industry.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Is that correct, Ryan?
unidentified		Yes, that's accurate.
		Companies should be able to sink or swim on its own.
		And in the case of Intel, if you think of all the talented people there, if their talents are not being put to a very good use, there's a huge opportunity cost to keeping Intel alive as a zombie company, as opposed to letting their talents and their skills be put to use where they might create more value.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's take a look at what President Trump said about this specific deal with Intel in the Oval Office yesterday.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here he is.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Intel, I said, I'd like to ask whether or not you'd give, you know, because a lot of people said I invested in Intel.
		I didn't invest, but I invest my heart in it and my soul because I want the country to be strong.
		But I said, I'd like you to give 10% of Intel to the United States of America.
		Not to me, to the United States of America.
		And I said, if you have them as a partner, you have the United States as a partner, I think that would be a very good thing for Intel.
		And he thought about it a little bit different.
		And he said, I like that idea very much.
		We have a deal.
		And that's, I just made $10 billion or $11 billion for the United States of America.
		And yeah, there will be other cases.
		If I have that opportunity again, I would do that.
		And then, you know, you do have stupid people say, oh, that's a shame.
		It's not a shame.
		It's called business.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So I believe he's calling you among those stupid people that are against this deal.
		He said that he just he's making 10 to 11 billion for the American people.
		What's your response to that?
unidentified		Well, Intel's stock, as of this morning, at least, is up, but I think the president makes clear a very important concept in public policy, and that is the difference between being pro-business and being pro-market.
		This acquisition of Intel, whether or not it profits the federal government, it's a very pro-business move.
		It's a very pro-Intel move.
		It's great for their stock price.
		They're essentially now a too big to fail company.
		It's not like the government is going to let them go out of business if NVIDIA and AMD and other companies out-compete them, which frankly they're doing, which is why Intel needed the rescue in the first place.
		So that's the pro-business view, which the president takes.
		I think we should consider a more pro-market view, which is not what is the fate of this or that company, but do we have an open competitive process where innovators can succeed or fail on the merits based on the value they create for their customers?
		If that's Intel, that's great.
		If it's someone else, that's also great.
		The point is to have an open and competitive market process where chip makers can innovate and create more value for people like you and me.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Would you say that there's any benefit to American taxpayers for owning 10% of Intel?
unidentified		I don't think so.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Because if the value goes up, don't we benefit as Americans?
unidentified		In the short run, yes.
		In the long run, Intel is essentially going to become a welfare case.
		They'll spend more of their resources competing in Washington and hiring lobbyists rather than making better chips and serving their customers and making computers and other electronic products better and faster.
		In the long run, it's not a good policy for the market.
		It's good for Intel the business, but it's bad for everyone else.
		It's President Trump picking winners and losers.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		If you'd like to join our conversation with Ryan Young talking about this 10% stake in Intel or other the intersection of government, the federal government, and private business, you can.
		Our lines are bipartisan.
		So Republicans are on 202748-8001.
		Democrats are on 202-748-8000.
		And Independents, 202748-8002.
		You can also text us your comments at 202-748-8003.
		Ryan, I want to show you what the Intel CEO, Lip Bhutan, said about this deal.
		He says, as the only semiconductor company that does leading edge logic, R ⁇ D, and manufacturing in the U.S., Intel is deeply committed to ensuring the world's most advanced technologies are American-made.
		President Trump's focus on U.S. chip manufacturing is driving historic investments in a vital industry that is integral to the country's economic and national security.
		What do you make of that argument?
unidentified		I don't think the national security argument stands up very well.
		And that's because in a global market with 192 countries, the U.S. cannot be cut off from supplies, whether it's semiconductors or rare earth minerals or steel.
		In a world with more than two countries, China, for example, could not cut off the U.S. Someone can ship it through China or Vietnam or Canada or Mexico.
		That's called trans-shipping.
		And it's like a Wiley Coyote and Roadrunner cartoon.
		Regulators can try to clamp down on that as much as they want, but you can't stop that process.
		If the U.S. needs semiconductors, we will get them.
		Maybe we'll make them here.
		Maybe we'll buy them from somewhere else.
		But frankly, America's comparative advantage in semiconductors isn't so much in those giant factories that just assemble them.
		It's designing them and coming up with new ideas and new experiments for new technologies that'll change the way chips are made in the first place.
		That is where the value in semiconductors is created.
		And that's the type of value that's created here in America.
		The manufacturing process creates a lot less value.
		It's more of a menial labor type of job.
		And that's why it tends to be outsourced to countries with lower labor costs, because they don't create as much value in the chain.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Aren't most semiconductors manufactured in Taiwan?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And that that's the big fear that if China were to impose a blockade or invade Taiwan, that we would be cut off from those chips, which go into pretty much everything, not just iPhones, but advanced military weapons and fighter jets, etc.
unidentified		Well, that's where that same prohibition doesn't work argument applies.
		But something that worries me is that the Treasury Secretary has said that the government's investment in Intel is the beginning rather than the ending of government taking stakes in companies.
		And one of the companies on that list is TSMC, which is headquartered in Taiwan.
		Now, there are already tensions between China and Taiwan and the U.S.
		And I could see this making those tensions worse.
		The president has been trying to make trade negotiations and other deals with China for a while now.
		And all of a sudden, suppose the U.S. takes a stake in TSMC, the Taiwan-based chip maker.
		Beijing's not going to like that.
		That will create more friction and, frankly, raise the risk of us being cut off rather than lowering it.
		And while the U.S. cannot be cut off, of course, when you create frictions in middlemen, prices will go up.
		You could see shortages and other bad consequences.
		This is, although I don't like slippery slope arguments, I think that applies in this case.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		In your analysis of this deal, Ryan, you wrote, quote, don't give yourself powers you don't want your opponents to have.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What did you mean by that?
unidentified		That is one of the most important rules in politics and also one of the most forgotten rules in politics.
		Politicians from both parties tend to think very short term.
		President Trump sees these cool new powers and he wants to grab them for himself.
		And he's forgetting that at some point power is going to change hands.
		And Democrats are likely going to use those same powers in ways that he and other Republicans do not like.
		If President Trump is taking ownership stakes in the semiconductor industry, then what's to stop the next Democratic president from taking ownership stakes in health insurance companies or renewable energy companies?
		Republicans are not going to like that.
		And yet they're the ones who are making that possible.
		You have to think a few steps ahead in politics.
		Instead, they tend to think very short term.
		Don't give yourself powers.
		You don't want the other side to have.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Are there other companies that the Trump administration has tried to make deals with or is in the process of making similar deals?
unidentified		Publicly, all we know is that the Treasury Secretary, one, is open to making deals with other CHIPS Act subsidy recipients, which includes TSMC and some other chip makers.
		He's also mentioned that this would be part of a process of creating a sovereign wealth fund, which is basically a government-run investment fund.
		A lot of countries around the world have them, especially petro states in the Arabian Gulf.
		Several U.S. states have them, like Alaska, which pays an energy dividend from its sovereign wealth fund.
		If the U.S. were to create one for the federal government, this would make the government not just an umpire of markets or a regulator of markets, but it would make them a participant in markets and an owner of the means of production.
		This would be a major change in economic policy on a scale we haven't seen in decades.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Now, the question is the difference between ownership and control.
		And the Commerce Secretary has said that the government will not have a seat on the board.
		So how much control, actually, will the U.S. government, the administration, have in a company like Intel?
unidentified		That is a really good question.
		Not all control is formal.
		We both know that the president loves jawboning.
		He loves making his opinions known, whether it's Major League Baseball and Pete Rose's Hall of Fame case or the Federal Reserve's interest rate policy or maybe Intel's management decisions.
		Keep in mind that the president also has a power over a golden share in U.S. steel, which allows him to veto its management's decisions.
		The Defense Department recently took a 15% ownership stake in a rare earth minerals company.
		This is part of a larger pattern.
		So whether there is a formal seat on the board or a formal policy giving government a say in management decisions, one way or another, the president will have his influence over the companies in which the federal government has a stake.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		We will get to calls, but first, Ed in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania texted us, how does your guest and his organization get funded?
unidentified		That's a good question.
		Most of our funders are individuals.
		We also receive donations from foundations.
		And then I believe, I think 15% or so of our funding is corporate.
		So individuals and foundations are the bulk, a little bit of corporate support.
		The balance varies from year to year.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Start with Robert in New York, Democrat.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Robert.
unidentified		Good morning.
		By listening to this conversation, I want all C-SPAN viewers to understand one thing.
		They always call the Democrats communists.
		This is a form of communism where a government is putting its hand on the scale of buying stocks where we are giving a preference to a company versus another company.
		More importantly, we do not know if that information that Trump had secretly felt that he was going to do this or announced this, that he had not announced that earlier to his family, where his family could invest in Intel earlier, where they would benefit from the stock market rising on Intel and make a gain, like he said,
		billions of dollars for the United States.
		Well, guess what?
		It's billions of dollars for his family as well.
		This is communism.
		And this is the Republican Party, what it turned into, a communist state.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What do you think, Ryan Young?
unidentified		Yeah, I agree with a lot of that.
		I tend to shy away from words like communist or socialists in political discourse because they're very loaded terms.
		And often neither Republicans nor Democrats use those terms correctly.
		A lot of Republicans just call anything they don't like socialist.
		And when a lot of Democrats, say the social democratic movement, endorses socialism, often what they mean isn't the USSR.
		They mean a market economy with more regulations and a larger welfare state, kind of like the Nordic model.
		In this case, I think the word socialism in its proper definition, does government own the means of production, I think that applies.
		If you ask some neutral third party who's never heard of Trump or Republicans or Democrats, does government owning the means of production meet the definition of socialism?
		Yes, it does.
		So yes, I think the S-word socialism that I usually avoid applies in this case.
		I think our caller has an excellent point.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		He also made the point about essentially insider trading and corruption, where President Trump knows he's going to announce this decision.
		He knows that the stock price is going to go up, at least in the short term.
		What are your thoughts on that?
unidentified		It certainly opens the doors to corruption.
		And that is something that policymakers, well, if policymakers are the ones taking that into account, that might change their opinion in a way the rest of us do not like.
		But yes, that is an important part that I think is not being in the conversation enough.
		I think that's an excellent point.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		On the line for Republicans in Orland Park, Illinois.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Mike, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yeah, hi.
		Good morning.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		I just think it's time the United States gets a little bit of guaranteed income.
		You know, for decades, Japan, China, they all subsidized their companies, cars, motorcycles, and they decimated the American automobile industry.
		Okay.
		Sounds a little far-fetched, but it's the truth.
		There were lawsuits and everything over it.
		I don't see a minor state with no voting power or anything in Intel can be even related anywhere to socialism or communism.
		The Democrats are self-proclaimed socialists nowadays anyway.
		And they don't even realize we're already living in a social.
		If we weren't in a socialist country now, there would be no welfare.
		Well, a little stretch.
		But no, we need a little stake in something like that just to bring some income into the company to compete with all these other countries.
		My tax, I pay a lot of money in taxes.
		This can help relieve some of those debts to me.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Mike.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, Ryan.
unidentified		That's an example of what we call a, but they do it too argument.
		China subsidizes its companies.
		We need to do that too.
		Japan subsidized its automakers.
		We need to do that too.
		Well, what Japan did ushered in three decades in counting of stagnation.
		China, leaving aside its human rights record, which we shouldn't, is in for its own problems based on debt, demographics, the fact that its state-owned enterprises are vastly underperforming its at least nominally private enterprises.
		Those are problems that we don't have to have.
		They're problems that we're on the way to choosing to have.
		And while I have some sympathy for our caller's national debt argument, when you have a national debt of $37 trillion in counting, if you make several hundred million dollars a year in dividends from $10 billion of Intel stock, that is deep decimal stuff that isn't going to create the fundamental change in our debt system that we have.
		There are better ways to solve a problem that we see similarly.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And I wonder, I mean, speaking of other countries, Ryan, if you think that there would be a reaction by other countries like South Korea, who has Samsung, a very big chip manufacturer, the EU, do you think that this would influence their decisions?
unidentified		Yes, I do.
		And that is an excellent point that also is not being brought up.
		Because again, politicians tend to think very short term.
		It's not just Republicans not being concerned enough that Democrats will use the same powers in ways that they do not like.
		We also have to be concerned about how our allies, opponents, and trading partners are going to react to this deal.
		And in fact, Samsung is one of the chip makers that received chip tax subsidies that Secretary Besant specifically mentioned as the U.S. government possibly taking a stake in.
		Korea is not going to like that very much.
		And Korea is a company with whom we have a free trade agreement.
		There are active negotiations going on to redo parts of that.
		China isn't going to take kindly to a potential investment in TSMC.
		Japan has its own companies that might not take too kindly to that.
		And then there's the fact that will these companies be bullied into preferentially doing business with Intel as opposed to another chip maker?
		There are all these questions that people aren't thinking ahead and asking.
		So I'm glad you brought that up.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Rodney from Houston is asking you this.
		Are your points personal or based on national and current global threats and security?
		First, what are your thoughts about U.S. national security?
		Secondly, is there any benefit to the U.S. in controlling its own intellectual property?
		And I know you addressed national security, but this idea of intellectual property and how does that work now with the 10% stake in Intel?
unidentified		That's a good question.
		Like so much else about this agreement, that remains to be seen.
		And to the extent that U.S.'s comparative advantage in chip making isn't so much the mass menial production, it's in the ideas and the innovations, the intellectual property.
		Well, if Intel was doing a better job as a company, they wouldn't have needed these subsidies.
		They wouldn't have needed this de facto bailout of 10% government ownership in the first place.
		If we had a better regulatory environment, better policies, and frankly, a better trading policy with lower barriers, the caller's legitimate IP concerns would be much less of an issue.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And when you say better trading policies, elaborate on that.
unidentified		Lower tariffs, more trade agreements with our trading partners, re-engaging the rules-based international trading system, reviving the World Trade Organization and its dispute resolution system, in which the U.S. has an 85% win rate.
unidentified		Those types of policies, I think, would go a long way towards addressing a lot of concerns that all of us have.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here's Jack, a Republican in Washington, Pennsylvania.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jack.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yeah, I am against this investment in Intel.
		I've seen what a lot of things have been done in the past with the bailout of Chrysler, investments in Solyndra, the bailout of GM, and how many privately owned car dealerships were put out of business because of it.
		But the main thing I want to discuss is what about reversing a situation here and try to privatize the Social Security that people are getting ripped off by because it basically is a Ponzi scheme and it's going to go broke.
		Something needs to be done with that.
		Would you consider privatizing Social Security?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jack.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, Ryan.
unidentified		That's a bit far afield from the Intel deal, but if you're talking about ways to reduce the national debt, that's a good way to do it.
		About 30 countries around the world have some form of an IRA for everybody, and that is a way to make the system sustainable, which it currently is not.
		So although that would be a generational project, that is something that could do a lot to not only make people's retired more secure and give them property rights in their retirement funds that they do not have under the current system.
		But yeah, it would have some of the positive effects the caller would like to see, even if that is a little far afield from the Intel deal.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And the caller also mentioned the bailout of General Motors, the Solyndra deal.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Explain how that is different or the same as this Intel deal.
unidentified		They're part of the same process.
		What we're seeing is it escalating essentially.
		We're moving on from bailouts or from preferential treatment all the way to outright ownership.
		So it's the same idea.
		There are U.S. companies that are being subsidized and propped up by Washington to moving to companies that are now outright owned, at least in part, by Washington and with politicians calling the shots instead of businessmen.
		That is not a healthy trend, and the administration has already indicated it will continue escalating the trend, whether it's through further investments in other chip makers or companies in other industries, or even creating a sovereign wealth fund to make the government essentially the country's largest investor.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		There's an opinion piece in the Washington Post today critical of this deal.
		And it says this, that the deal's terms, meanwhile, are heavily tilted toward the government.
		It purchased shares at $20.47 instead of Friday's $24.80 closing price, a discount at current shareholders' expense.
		The Intel boards greenlet the below market transaction without shareholder approval, showing how management now prioritizes government interests over fiduciary duties.
		I know it's a bit in the weeds, Ryan, but talk about that situation and how that might be harming the current shareholders of Intel.
unidentified		Yeah, well, it's certainly not very good for Intel's shareholders.
		That's simply unfair.
		Yeah, and I also wonder if the reason Intel took a discount on that is because they don't have any leverage, and Washington knows this.
		That might tie a little bit into the national debt argument that more than one caller has brought up, but that's not fair to Intel's shareholders.
		It's not fair to their management, who now has fewer resources to which to put into their business and try to revive it.
		It's another example of Washington calling the shots rather than the people involved in the business.
		It's not a healthy trend, and I could see that very easily being copied in future government acquisitions.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here's Matt in Maryland on the independent line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Matt.
unidentified		Good morning.
		The best lens to look at anything that Donald Trump does is first through grift, then through grievance, and then through criminality.
		And trying to look at this Intel federal takeover through an economic lens, I think, misses those three.
		The land around the Intel property in Ohio that's going to be built, including the massive development that would make it much like Hillsboro, Oregon, is owned by someone who has close ties to Jeffrey Epstein.
		Les Wexner owns all of that land and stands to gain billions.
		One of the biggest problems right now is that because of Intel's ineptitude, they haven't been able to land the big customers that would justify moving forward with building that big plant in Ohio and thus giving Les Wexner billions of dollars.
		Why would it matter that Les Wexner be made whole in this situation by getting billions of dollars from a government action from Donald Trump?
		And is it any coincidence that this was announced right after the Jelaine Maxwell interview that we didn't hear all of?
		So, the best way to look at Donald Trump, grift, grievance, criminality, and this is no different.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Ryan Young, your response.
unidentified		I'm not knowledgeable about the Epstein affair, so I'm not going to comment on that.
		But I do think the grift angle is essential to understanding this and other similar deals that might be coming.
		There's a big difference between government acting as an umpire to make sure everyone's playing the game the right way and government being an actual player in the game.
		And this is an example of that.
		The more that government is actually a player in the game, making business decisions, directing capital to places it might not otherwise go, the more you open up opportunities for grift and corruption and embezzlement.
		It's a dangerous game to play.
		And I think government was at its best if it's just staying to the role of umpire, making sure everyone's following the rules of the game and making sure that they're fair and clear so that people know what they're doing and what they can and cannot do.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		We've got a poster on X who wants to know why it was okay for George W. Bush to bail out the banks or Obama bailed out the car companies, but not for this administration to own or take over 10% of a company.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Explain the difference.
unidentified		I don't think there is a difference.
		Republicans might be able to come up with something, but I don't think there is a difference.
		If there is one, it's a difference of degree rather than a difference of kind.
		What you have is government picking winners and losers, putting their thumbs on the scale, like our last caller mentioned, opening up opportunities for corruption and special favors and self-dealing.
		Whether it's a bailout or a subsidy or an outright ownership stake, it's all part of the same thing.
		It's just on a spectrum from bad to worse.
		And I do think you can make an argument that government ownership of 10% of Intel is worse in degree than, say, the Bush Obama bailouts and subsidies.
		But really, when you get down to it, it is the same thing.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here's Randy, a Republican in Wichita Falls, Texas.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Randy.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		I'd like to ask him, do you think should the government get out of the national aerospace industry?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Get out in what way, Randy?
unidentified		In NASA, to not be competing.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So not fund NASA?
unidentified		Yes, because you're owning part of the aerospace industry.
		Ryan, any response to that?
		That's a good question.
		NASA, we have, first of all, you have a rising private space industry, but you also have contractors like Boeing and Airbus and Northrop Rummen and all other sorts of companies that are, you know, they're private.
		They do some dealings with NASA.
		They do some dealings with other companies as well.
		So you have this public-private mix.
		And I think there's room for debate for how much of it should be private and how much of it should be public.
		But yeah, I think that's room for a fertile discussion.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here's Scott, Portland, Oregon, Independent Line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Scott.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
		I liked your comment about as far as technology being developed here in the United States.
		I was involved in the copper transition back in the late 90s from aluminum with Intel and Novellus and IBM.
		And I think you've got a great point there that we need to develop more intellectual develop or science here in the United States.
		Capitalism always goes to the lowest cost producer.
		So, but we need to invest in programs in education more than buying out companies.
		It seems more like fascism if we're not going to give the company back like we did with Chrysler or GM with the bailouts, excluding the banks, but GM paid back their loans with interest.
		But I don't see that happening with Intel, where the government's going to get a return on investment.
		They're just going to take more control, especially with TMSC.
		If we do that, that leads us down a dangerous path.
		What Paul ISC?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Ryan Young.
unidentified		Yeah, that's a really good point.
		The president's goal here is to have more technology and more investment in America.
		What's the best way to achieve that goal?
		I don't think the best way to achieve that goal is to have the government buy a 10% stake in Intel.
		I would look at a better immigration policy that takes advantage of our world-class university system and entrepreneurial environment.
		I would look at lowering trade barriers.
		I would look at regulatory relief.
		I would look at all these other policy options before turning to government ownership of the means of production.
		Whatever your goal is, there's more than one way to achieve it, and you have to make sure you choose the best option.
		I don't think that's what the administration is doing here.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And Ryan, what are you going to be looking at going forward as this deal develops and more details emerge from it?
unidentified		I'm going to look for who's next.
		Will it be AMD, TSMC, Samsung?
		Is the administration going to turn its sights beyond just semiconductors to any company that receives a subsidy potentially?
		Are they going to create a sovereign wealth fund?
		I think these are questions we're going to find out in the next year or two, and I'm a little scared to find out what the answers are.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		That is Ryan Young of the Competitive Enterprise Institute.
		He's a senior economist there.
		You can find his writing at CEI.org.
		Ryan, thanks so much for joining us today.
unidentified		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Later on the Washington Journal, Pew Research Center's Jeffrey Passell discusses a new report on the number of unauthorized immigrants in the United States and trends in immigration.
		But up next, it's more of your phone calls for Open Forum.
		You can start calling in now.
		The numbers are Republicans 202-748-8001.
		Democrats 202-748-8000.
		And Independents 202-748-8002.
		Stay with us.
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		From the halls of our nation's most iconic libraries comes America's Book Club, a bold, original series where ideas, history, and democracy meet.
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		Among this season's remarkable guests, John Grisham, master storyteller of the American justice system.
		Justice Amy Coney Barrett, exploring the Constitution, the court, and the role of law in American life.
		Famed chef and global relief entrepreneur Jose Andres, reimagining food.
		Henry Louis Gates, chronicler of race, identity, and the American experience.
		The books, the voices, the places that preserve our past and spark the ideas that will shape our future.
		America's Book Club, premiering this fall only on C-SPAN.
		Have been watching C-SPAN Washington Journal for over 10 years now.
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		Washington Journal continues.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back to Washington Journal.
		We'll get right back to your calls.
		This is Open Forum and go to Gregory, Casa Grande, Arizona Democrat.
		Good morning, Gregory.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I just have a question.
		If Trump continues to fire heads of departments of independence and puts loyalists in, what do you see happening to our economy as far as investors?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And this is Dennis in Indiana Republican line.
		Good morning, Dennis.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I just wanted to say, talk about our deficit.
		You know, we evidently, whatever we're doing isn't working, not working a bit.
		Hasn't been working for at least the last 15 years, 20 years.
		You know, The Democrats has been pushing all this stuff in the last the last when they were in office the last time.
		They they, we.
		We've probably got uh, over three trillion dollars that can't even be accountable for.
		We can't even.
		We don't even know where it went.
		You know uh, it just, it just flew out the door with all these immigrants and all the, all the money that has been wasted in the last, especially in the last administration that we had, the money that was wasted with all these illegals, was it it?
		It's beyond comprehension that we could do this.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Got it, Dennis.
		And here's Sally Ann in Florence, Alabama Independent LINE.
		Good morning, Sally Ann.
unidentified		Yes, good morning, um.
unidentified		On your last segment, open forum, you did mention that um, you thought that uh, legal residents were able to get Medicaid.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		I'd just like to let you know that no, i've been illegal no no no, I didn't said say illegal, I said legal green card holders were eligible for medicaid.
unidentified		Yes well, that's not necessarily true, because i've been a legal resident alien for 34 years and um, I became well.
		I came down with leukemia when I was pregnant with my fourth child um, and i've been a resident for 10 years at that time and then I became blind because of the you know the treatment and everything, and I was.
		I never applied for anything.
		I had a social worker when I was in hospital and she applied for me to get um excuse me disability, and she said well you, you cannot get it.
		And I said well, I wasn't going to apply for it.
		And she said well, it says that you're three working credits uh short and so you can't get anything.
		And I said well, to me, that's fair, I didn't put in I should not receive three working credits short, is that what you said?
		Yes, that's correct um, I was only 34 and so um, and did you qualify, as far as income level goes, Sally Ann um, for Medicaid?
		Yeah no, I don't know, because I mean, I didn't apply for anything.
		And when I first came to this country, we lived um, I mean, my husband's American and I even have three American three, our four children, three of them uh, serving in three different branches in the military.
		All my children have worked since they were 16, my one of them since it was 14.
		And so I mean some people can't believe that I don't get anything.
		And I said, well, that's why I get frustrated when um illegal and, by the way, people who get upset about being called aliens for 30 something years my, my federal id card that has my photograph across in bold letters says resident alien.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		In fact Sally, have you, have you thought about um applying for citizenship, since your husband's an American citizen?
unidentified		Well, the it it was.
		It's my choice, really.
		The only the reason why I didn't is because i'm 60, but I had my father um, and all my uncles in England fought in World War Ii.
		My, my father was 17, 18 when he was um, fought on D-day.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So so you don't want to be a, an American citizen, is that?
unidentified		Is that why you haven't applied?
		Well, just because I just didn't, because of my own father fighting.
		I don't know.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		I understand.
		You don't have to explain.
		This is Kathy in Ohio, Line for Democrats.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I was just thinking this morning that Trump is a whole lot like Netanyahu and Putin, and he's sending the military troops out to take us over and cause chaos in the United States.
		I don't know what he thinks he's doing, but he's just crazy.
		That's all.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And this morning at 9.30 a.m., we've got members of the Democratic National Committee's Resolutions Committee will consider resolutions calling for an immediate ceasefire in the war in Gaza, suspension of military aid to Israel, and the release of all Israeli hostages in the conflict.
		That's coming from Minneapolis.
		We'll have live coverage of that at 9.30 over on C-SPAN 2.
		Also today at 5.30, the bylaws committee of the DNC will work to establish a 2028 presidential primary and caucus calendar.
		That's live at 5.30 on C-SPAN 2.
		Both those you can see at C-SPAN now and at c-span.org.
		Well, DNC Chair Ken Martin spoke about the future of his party at their 2025 summer meeting in Minneapolis.
		Here's a portion from yesterday.
ken martin ▲ ● ▼		Now, look, folks, I'm sick and tired of this Democratic Party bringing a pencil to a knife fight.
unidentified		We cannot be the only party that plays by the rules anymore.
		We've got to stand up and fight.
		We're not going to have a hand tied behind our back anymore.
		Let's grow a damn spot and get in this fight, Democrats.
		LFG, that's right.
		Americans are hungry for leaders.
		They're hungry for candidates who are on the side of working people.
ken martin ▲ ● ▼		They're hungry for leaders who give a damn about their circumstances, and they're hungry for a government that gives people freedom, not fascism.
ken martin ▲ ● ▼		To every American who is hungry for that kind of government, I invite you to join us.
unidentified		Democrats, Republicans, Independents, I invite you to join us.
ken martin ▲ ● ▼		Together, we will fight with every fiber of our being against Trump and his power-hungry circus.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And we are in open forum.
		Whatever is on your mind regarding public policy and politics, you can share that with us on the line for Republicans in Missouri.
		Ann, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes.
		My comment is I have been listening and they holler about soda with snap and candy.
		And they're putting all this money into advertising and trying to take this out.
		I'm a senior and I would just like for us to have some good food.
		I buy chicken.
		I put it in, borrow it.
		The water's white with additives.
		They're getting to add stuff to the pork.
		They have radioactive stuff that they tried to distribute in the United States before it's recalled.
		Why can they not take some of this excess money supposedly they have and get the people some decent food so we don't have to worry about candy and chips and soda?
		And that's my comment.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Ann.
		Here is Ruth in Illinois, Line for Democrats.
		Good morning, Ruth.
unidentified		Well, good morning.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		I am a 78-year-old woman.
		Today's my birthday.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Happy birthday.
unidentified		Well, thank you very much.
		I'm calling because I have two things.
		First of all, I really am, I love C-SPAN.
		I watch you every morning.
		However, I'm a little disappointed yesterday that you did not telecast Governor Pritzler's and the mayor of Chicago's speeches.
		They were very, very good.
		Now, secondly, why, if perhaps you know, is nothing ever stated about the bruises on the president's hand.
		I do realize he is my president.
		I did not vote for him.
		I would not vote for him.
		I'm against almost every policy he has.
		However, I just don't understand his health.
		And why did you continue that storm he had yesterday with signing those executive orders once he just repeats himself constantly all the time?
		The same thing.
		I do appreciate you listening to me.
		And maybe you could answer me, though, about why they did not cover Illinois' press conference yesterday.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Did we not cover it?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let me take a look at that.
unidentified		I kept switching back and forth, I'll be honest with you, just to see.
		And it was not being telecast live.
		Now, perhaps you covered it later.
		I usually watch the Washington Journal in the morning.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
		Thank you for that, Ruth.
		And we do have a portion of that speech by Governor Pritzker from yesterday.
		Here it is.
jb pritzker ▲ ● ▼		There is not an emergency in the city of Chicago.
		There is nothing that calls for having troops on the streets of the city of Chicago.
		We have crime like other cities do.
		But let's be clear.
		We are actually in better shape than the 30 biggest cities across the United States.
		We're in better shape on average.
		And it is important to recognize that the President of the United States is doing this for theatrics.
		This is not because we've asked for it.
		It is not because there is some justice that he is going to seek.
		It is because he wants to create chaos.
		That is all this is about.
		Well, one thing that we're trying to make clear to the entire United States is that this is a great city.
		Look at how beautiful this city is.
		This city is moving in the right direction on crime.
		That we have been, in fact, over the last four years, we have seen homicides drop in half.
		And that that is something that the president of the United States should pay attention to.
		I know he doesn't read.
		I know he doesn't listen to very many people, but I know he watches television.
		And so perhaps if somebody from Fox News or from Newsmax is here, they'll cover the fact that Chicago is in much better shape as a result of the work that we are doing to prevent crime, to interrupt crime, to reduce crime, to increase the number of police.
		Our state police are up during my time in office.
		I want the president to understand that we do not want troops on the ground in the city of Chicago.
		Neither do the people of Chicago or the people of the state.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		That was Governor Pritzker of Louisiana.
		And we do have that full press conference on our website, c-span.org, if you would like to take a look at that.
		And the other question was about the makeup on the president's hands.
		Here is USA Today on that.
		It says Trump's hand makeup bruise go viral.
		Again, here's what the White House has said about it.
		It says images of President Trump's hand appearing to be covered in a patch of makeup have gone viral over the past few days after several similar images of his hand were captured and circulated last month.
		It says on Monday, bruising of Trump's right hand was apparent in photographs taken in the Oval Office with his meeting with South Korean president.
		The White House announced on July 17th that the Republican leader had been recently diagnosed with chronic venous insufficiency.
		It's a common vein condition.
		After images taken of the president showed visible swelling in his lower legs, White House Press Secretary Levitt said at the July news conference that the diagnosis came after medical tests to examine the leg swelling and bruising on the back of the president's right hand.
		And this is Wyatt in Louisville, Kentucky, Independent Line.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		How are you?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		Just, you know, I'm sure, like everybody else, they're just appalled at the lack of leadership.
		And nobody gets the fact, you know, we get sprayed with chemtrails, we get COVID.
		You know, the man is being sued for, what, raping a 13-year-old little girl?
		And that is a horrible, horrible example for our children.
		They have no respect for the laws anymore, you know, and it's our Constitution is just basically toilet paper.
		You know, there's a thing called the 14th Amendment.
		And it's just amazing to me how nobody has the balls to stand up to this man.
		All the men in our country, it's like they don't care about their kids or their future or our country.
		And it's just disgusting to me.
		And that's all I have to say.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And on the Republican line in West Plains, Missouri, Joe, you're on the air.
unidentified		Okay, I got a few things.
		First of all, we ain't deporting them enough and we ain't deporting them fast enough.
		I want way more out of this country.
		I'm from the city of Chicago.
		You know what we call J.B. Pritzker in Chicago?
		Fred Slintstone.
		That's his nickname in Chicago.
		So I want more deportations.
		And Trump's hands, the bruises, that's not important.
		Okay, I don't know.
		These callers, that's an important thing.
		I don't think so.
		So deport them more, deport them quickly.
		We should have never brought Abrazio Garcia back.
		We had them where we wanted them.
		We should have left them there to hell with what the judge says.
		What were they going to do?
		So now we've got to get rid of them again.
		So thanks for taking my call.
		Bye.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Joe.
		And we are in open forum.
		The numbers are on your screen.
		If you'd like to call in.
		Meanwhile, while you're doing that, the president was in the Oval Office yesterday with South Korean president, and he talked about a possible meeting with North Korea's leader, Kim Jong-un.
		Here he is.
unidentified		Mr. President, would you go back to the DMZ to meet with the North Korean leader?
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Say it.
unidentified		Would you go back to the DMZ to meet with the North Korean leader?
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I loved it.
		Remember when I walked across the line and everyone went crazy?
		Especially Secret Service?
		I would say they were all safe.
		And I looked into those windows.
		You know the windows, the glass?
		That you could only see if you looked direct because there was all sorts of stuff.
		But I looked in and I saw more rifles pointing at me than you could.
		There were a lot of rifles in that building.
		The Secret Service was not happy.
		You know the buildings I'm talking about?
		The two blue buildings on each side.
		And I walked up the middle and I looked in the window and I saw more guns in that room than I've ever seen in my life.
		I looked at the other side and it was the same thing.
		And yet I felt safe.
		I felt safe because I have a great relationship with Kim Jong-un.
		I hope it stays that way.
		I think it will.
		I have a very good relationship.
		I understand them.
		I spent a lot of free time with them talking about things that we probably aren't supposed to talk about.
		And, you know, I just get along with him really well.
		I think he is a country of great potential, tremendous potential.
unidentified		Is it possible you meet him this year or maybe next year?
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm meeting a lot of people.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's hard to say that, but I'd like to meet him this year.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And we are also standing by for Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy.
		He is expected to be speaking shortly.
		You can see the room there.
		If he does, we will definitely take that for you and give you an idea of what he has to say.
		Meanwhile, we'll take your calls.
		Leroy in Alamosa, Colorado, Democrat, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes, I'd like to say something about illegal immigration.
		I think everybody has a right or should not exactly a right to be here, but should have a pathway in which they can be here.
		That's all I would like to say.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And Hal, a Republican in Connecticut.
		Good morning.
		You're on Open Forum.
unidentified		Hi.
		I just want to say this.
		Good things happen to bad people.
		And if you think about it, it may work out.
		That's all I got to say.
		Thanks.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Wait, wait.
		What are you talking about, Hal?
		Which bad people and what good things?
unidentified		Good things happen to bad people.
		Think about it.
		Who's going to be the good?
		You know what I'm saying?
		All right.
		That's all I got to say.
		Thanks.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Diane in Beverton, Ohio, Democrat.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Diane.
unidentified		Good morning, Greta.
		Okay, first of all, I want people to understand this idea that calling migrants illegal is a misdemeanor.
		It's like us driving 25 miles over the speed limit.
		So what?
		Is Trump going to deport you because you got a speeding ticket?
		Also, in the state of Ohio, my sister worked at the Welfare Department.
		They, meaning migrants that are not United States citizens or have a status like a refugee, do not get food stamps, do not get anything, except if a woman is pregnant and she has that baby, they will pay for that.
		But other than that, they don't get anything from Ohio.
		So I don't know what the other states do.
		I just know what Ohio does because that was her profession.
		Get that stuff straight, people.
		They do not get anything extra.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Diane.
unidentified		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here's a Republican in Michigan.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Kathy, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes, hi.
		Way back in April, you were hosting Washington Journal, and you had two guests on.
		I can't remember who they were.
		Well, I did write it down, but where it is now, who knows?
		And there's a difference between news organizations or news programs and opinion.
		And you and these two other guests were smirking and laughing at the headline that Jesse Waters had on his program, which is opinionated compared to C-SPAN and MSNBC.
		And they supposedly are supposed to be news programs, but they aren't.
		They're just opinionated as any other ones.
		But so that was wrong Because the news programs on Fox News is Brett Baer and most of the daytime stuff.
		So that's one thing.
		The other thing is the, I don't know, I think you all should either be taken off the air or sued because what you let go on air about our president, that a while back, someone was saying he's a rapist.
		He's not a rapist.
		He was never convicted of rape.
		He's a pedophile.
		He's never been convicted of a pedophile.
		He's not a pedophile.
		In fact, the things he's been convicted of were shams.
		They're kangaroo courts, and most people know it.
		Let's see what else.
		You mainly have subjects that are against this president.
		Why don't you talk about Adam Schiff?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So, Kathy, give me an example of that.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		When you say a subject that is against the president, like what?
unidentified		Every day.
unidentified		Every day it's biased against the president.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So, for instance, this morning we had the question: do you support or oppose the president's deportation efforts?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You find that biased?
unidentified		Yes.
		Why do you have to say the president's deep?
		Why do you have to say the president's deportation efforts?
		Why can't you just say the country's deportation efforts?
		Because the Democrats are involved in this too.
		They've done nothing for 40 years.
		They've been in power.
		They are to blame.
		Adam Schiff is under mortgage fraud.
		Letitia James, all these Democrats are under mortgage fraud.
		Why don't you spend a whole day on talking about that?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Appreciate the feedback.
		Tony, Tamarack, Florida, Independent Line.
		Good morning, Tony.
unidentified		Good morning.
		As you may tell, I am an immigrant myself, or actually I'm a citizen, but I came from another country.
		And I really and truly support the efforts of this administration to stop illegal immigration.
		You have fallen into the trap that so many in the media have.
		They have taken the language.
		Our preached about this.
		He taught about this, capturing the language.
		When you call them undocumented or migrants, you conflate us all together.
		And I am offended by that.
		I'm offended by callers who talk about my country.
		I heard a call earlier today says, my country was from Colombia.
		He's a resident here or maybe naturalized and talking about my country.
		This is my country.
		I was born in Jamaica.
		The proudest possession I have, other than my naturalization papers, is my U.S. passport.
		When I landed in Jamaica a few years ago, it was stamped, not allowed to work.
		People need to pick a side.
		One more thing.
		America is a lifeboat for the rest of the world.
		And if we just let everybody climb into the lifeboat, you know what happens when you do that.
		You have to triage.
		You have to have a system.
		We have laws.
		We don't need to rewrite the laws.
		We just need to enforce the laws and stop this canard of comprehensive immigration reform.
		We just need to enforce our laws.
		You have a great day.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And we'll return to Open Forum later in the program.
		But coming up next, we've got Pew Research Center's Jeffrey Passell discussing a new report on the number of unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. and trends in immigration.
		We'll be right back.
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		This fall, C-SPAN invites you on a powerful journey through the stories that define a nation.
		From the halls of our nation's most iconic libraries comes America's Book Club, a bold, original series where ideas, history, and democracy meet.
		Hosted by renowned author and civic leader David Rubinstein, each week features in-depth conversations with the thinkers shaping our national story.
		Among this season's remarkable guests, John Grisham, master storyteller of the American justice system.
		Justice Amy Coney Barrett, exploring the Constitution, the court, and the role of law in American life.
		Famed chef and global relief entrepreneur Jose Andres, reimagining food.
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		The books, the voices, the places that preserve our and spark the ideas that will shape our future.
		America's Book Club, premiering this fall, only on C-SPAN.
		Washington Journal continues.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Joining us now from the Pew Research Center is senior demographer Jeffrey Passell, joining us to talk about their recent report on unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. Jeffrey, welcome to the program.
unidentified		Thank you for having me.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So first, tell us about the Pew Research Center and its analysis of immigration statistics and where you get those numbers.
unidentified		Well, the Pew Research Center, we call ourselves a fact tank.
		So our mission is to provide data that's helpful to people.
		On the immigration, we get two main sources.
		We get data on how many total immigrants are in the country from a government survey called the American Community Survey.
		We make some adjustments to it because we know it doesn't have everybody in it, but that's the big source.
		We get data on how many legal immigrants come into the country from various sources, but mainly from DHS on how many people get admitted.
		And we compare the legal immigrants to the total immigrants, and basically that's where we get the unauthorized immigrants.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, so let's talk about numbers.
		Specifically, we'll put that on the screen for unauthorized immigrants in the U.S.
		This is by year.
		So going back to 2007, it was 12.2 in it, dipped a bit between 2019, 2021, and then started rising again, reaching 14 million in 2023.
		Put that number in perspective for us as far as, I mean, we can see the trend and the difference in the numbers.
unidentified		Well, the 14 million is the highest we've estimated.
		And the chart shows we have estimates going back to 1990 and going back a little further.
		The numbers went up 3.5 million between 21 and 23, and that's the biggest two-year increase we've ever seen.
		It had been on a long-term, rather slow decline from the previous peak of 12.2 million, as you said.
		And for about a decade, the numbers were kind of drifting downward, but then they took off starting in 2021.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And you could see that visually, if you'd like to see that on there, that's the Pew website.
		Here is 1990, here's 2023, and you can see the rise, the dip, and then the sharp increase.
		So talk about why that happened.
unidentified		Well, a number of things happened.
		Some of them were policy decisions, and some of them were just people wanting to come and the draw of the U.S. labor force.
		Starting in about 2021, large numbers of people started trying to cross the southwest border.
		The Biden administration made some decisions to let some of those people in and to admit some other people to take some of the pressure off the border.
		But basically, this was a real, a very large increase in the number of people trying to get in as the U.S. was recovering from the COVID pandemic.
		So there had been a bit of a backup, and people weren't trying to get in from 2020 to 2021, but then large numbers did.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And then the idea of parole, explain that.
unidentified		Well, there are a number of ways that people can come into the country that aren't fully legal.
		It leaves them in a rather precarious position and their status can be revoked.
		Parole is mainly for humanitarian reasons.
		People are fleeing various kinds of situations in their home country, political repression, persecution, natural disasters.
		And parole is a method where we can let people into the country on a temporary basis.
		And we did this with a fairly large number of people starting in 2021.
		Some of them were people who just came to the border, but there were several programs set up to admit people from one was called CHNV, Cuba, Haiti, Nicaragua, Venezuela.
		Those were the main groups coming in at the border.
		But we also paroled people from Ukraine and from Afghanistan.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		The report also states that in 2023, the foreign-born population in the U.S. was just under 52 million.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		We'll go through who those are in detail, but first put that number 52 million in perspective for us.
unidentified		Well, it's just a little less than 15% of the U.S. population.
		Over the long term, that's a fairly high level.
		120 years ago, we had 15% of the population foreign-born in 1890 and 1910.
		Those numbers decreased, but they've been going up steadily for the last 40 years or so.
		And so it's about one out of seven people in the U.S. as an immigrant.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So let's go through who they are, the foreign-born, the people that are in the United States that are foreign-born.
		Naturalized citizens consist of 46%, so almost half are naturalized U.S. citizens.
		Then you have lawful permanent residents at 11.9 million, that's 23%, and then temporary lawful residents.
		So lawful permanent residents are green card holders.
unidentified		Yes, yes.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What are temporary lawful residents?
unidentified		Those are people admitted for specific purposes and specific time periods.
		So the biggest group there are foreign students.
		So they're admitted.
		They count as residents because they live here for a significant period of time, but their presence is temporary.
		Guest workers, the high-tech group, the H-1B workers are another large group.
		And the third largest group is probably people who work for foreign companies and they come here and are working for the company but living here.
		So we admit those people for, as I said, specific purposes and specific time periods.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Now, unauthorized immigrants are 14 million.
		Those are broken up into two portions.
		So have some protection and no protection.
		Can you explain those two categories?
unidentified		Historically, if you go back to the peak and even before, almost all of the unauthorized immigrants were people who either snuck into the country or came with a visa and overstayed.
		And they basically were deportable.
		Over the years, there have been legislative changes and policy changes that allow some of these people to stay in the country for specific periods of time.
		So one of the groups that's fairly well known is people with temporary protected status.
		The government, this is written into the 1990 law.
		The government determined that it's unsafe for people to go back to their home country, so they're allowed to stay for specific periods of time.
		That's one group.
		There's another group called DACA.
		These are immigrants who came as children and have been allowed to stay.
		And the parole group is another group that we just talked about.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		We'll put that list up on the screen that you just talked about.
		Asylum applicants are the biggest one, 2.6 million.
		To apply for asylum, you have to show reasonable fear or persecution in your home country.
		Is that still the case?
		Are those applications still being accepted here?
unidentified		As far as I know, the law requires that they be accepted.
		What has changed is whether people who cross the border and apply for asylum immediately, I believe the Trump administration has not allowed those.
		But if you're in the country and you have a reasonable fear of persecution in your home country, you can still apply for asylum.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And is that retroactive?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		The people that crossed the border during the Biden administration and applied for asylum, do you happen to know if those have been all rejected or how does that work?
unidentified		We don't have any data from this year, but as of last year, those numbers, which I believe the chart you're showing has 2.6 million, I think that's gone up to over 3.5 million in the backlogs.
		So these are people who've applied.
		The cases are adjudicated either by DHS, the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, adjudicates some of them.
		and the Justice Department adjudicates others.
		But it's a process that takes a while and these backlogs have just grown and grown and grown over the years.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		If you'd like to ask a question of our guest, Jeffrey Passell of Pew Research, he's a demographer there, about the numbers regarding immigration.
		You can do so.
		Our lines are bipartisan.
		So Republicans are on 2028-8001.
		Democrats on 202748-8000.
		And Independents, 202748-8002.
		We also have a line set aside for immigrants.
		That number is 202-748-8003.
		You can use that same number, 8003, for texting us, and you can post on social media.
		Can you talk about how the policies have changed over the last two years?
		So going back to 2023 about asylum, parole, deportation.
unidentified		Yes.
		Through roughly the middle of 2024, the trends that we saw up on that chart continued with large numbers of people coming to the border, asking for parole status or being released into the country.
		In the middle of 2024, the Biden administration stopped releasing people, but they still continued to accept parole applications.
		The program set up that I mentioned earlier for Cubans, Haitians, Nicaraguans, and Venezuelans was basically stopped as of August of 2024, and by November, no more were coming in.
		Then in 2025, the Trump administration no longer was releasing people.
		We don't have good data.
		The data we have stops in November.
		But from the things I've seen, they're not paroling people into the country in the numbers that were done.
		There have been a number of these statuses that have been revoked.
		So the Trump administration not only refused to continue the parole status for the CHNV people, but they eliminated the protections.
		So that was about half a million people who went from having some protection to having no protection from deportation.
		And they've allowed several of the temporary protected statuses to expire.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And the DACA, the deferred action for childhood arrivals, those are about 600,000 people.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Those are still protected.
unidentified		Those are still, as far as I can tell from the data I've seen.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So now your report says that in 2025, the unauthorized immigrant population has probably started to decline due to increased deportations and reduced protections that you were just talking about.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Is the population still above the 2023 levels?
unidentified		From everything we can tell, the data that we have is incomplete and from much smaller samples than the data we use for our estimates.
unidentified		So it's a little hard to say, but with the large increase we saw in 2024, we're fairly certain that the number is still above the 14 million.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Now, Jimbo in Bakersfield, California wants to know if you have statistics about people who might have self-deported since the beginning of the Trump administration.
unidentified		We don't.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You have no idea.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You have no way of tracking that?
unidentified		We don't.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's go to calls.
		And this is Derek in Lakeland, Minnesota, Independent Line.
		Hi, Derek.
unidentified		Good morning, C-SPAN.
		Good morning, America.
		All right.
		So, sir, out of huge respect, because I don't like to pick on somebody who's older than me, but you said you were a fact tank, and I understand that there's think tanks, and I understand how clever that is.
		But when you talk about these are estimates, and then yet you say it's fact, I go by the Constitution.
		The Constitution says they're illegal aliens.
		That's the terminology.
		You've changed the terminology.
		You have estimates that say that they're facts.
		How many gotaways are you tracking?
		And over, let's say over 20 years, how many gotaways were calculated?
		And I think your numbers are probably half correct.
		So I'd say it's double what you're saying.
		What is your response, sir?
		Well, we've all you have other than a census is an estimate.
		So the fact that we call them estimates doesn't mean that that's somehow invalid.
		People have to live somewhere.
		And we have good data on how many houses there are in the country and who lives there.
		And we make adjustments to the surveys for people who are missed, but it's within the ranges that are supported by various estimates and various data sources.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here's Jerry, a Republican in Willis, Texas.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jerry.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
		First statement I'd like to make is calling an illegal alien an unauthorized immigrant is like calling a bank robber an unauthorized customer.
		My question is, prior to the Biden administration, they estimated there were 12 million illegal aliens in the United States.
		At least 10 million more came in.
		Now, I know I went to California Public Schools, but that adds up to well over 20 million people.
		Why is this gentleman saying there's only 14 million?
		Thank you for your time.
		These estimates do take into account the very large number of people that did come in over the last five years.
		This is a very dynamic population.
		People are coming and going all the time.
		Just because somebody comes into the country doesn't mean they stay.
		And so this, the flows in and the flows out lead up to what we've seen.
		And we did have very large inflows during the 2020s, and that's reflected in the estimates here that they went up by a record amount between 21 and 23.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Tom in Asheville, North Carolina, Democrat, good morning, Tom.
unidentified		Good morning.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You're on with Jeffrey Paselle.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		I just wanted to ask him or me, me, why is it that, and I live in Asheville and I see a lot of Russians, Polish, all kinds of European immigrants, half of them can't speak English.
		Wow.
		And they came here and they overstayed their visas.
		How come they don't arrest the white ones instead of just going after Latinos?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Overstaying visas.
unidentified		Yes, there are different ways that people get here, and overstaying visas is one of them.
		I have to preface this by saying I'm not an immigration lawyer, but deportation is a process and that people can get arrested and they can contest the deportation and they have reasons that they might be allowed to stay.
		So it takes a while for people to work through the system and for people to be deported, even if they are deportable.
		And as we've been talking about, a large number of these unauthorized immigrants are not strictly deportable.
		They have some protection and some right to be in the country.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		As far as where immigrants, unauthorized immigrants are living around the country, because they're not evenly spread out, this is a map by Axios saying estimated share of population who are unauthorized immigrants in 2023.
		So you can see here the darkest color is the highest percentage, which is 5% share of the population of that state.
		And you've got here California, Nevada, Texas, Florida, New Jersey, Massachusetts.
		Do you do any analysis of where unauthorized immigrants are living?
unidentified		Historically and for the last 45 years, the states with the largest numbers have been California with the largest, Texas, Florida, New York, New Jersey, Illinois.
		During the 1990s, a lot of other states in the Southeast, Georgia, North Carolina, and in New England, Massachusetts, and Washington State in the West, saw their numbers grow, but the largest numbers are in those six states.
		With this recent inflow, the biggest increase was in Florida, but Texas and California also grew substantially.
		One of the changes or differences that occurred in this new inflow is that historically Mexico has been a principal source and the largest source of unauthorized immigrants.
		It's still the largest number, but it didn't increase very much over the last three years.
		The big increases were from Latin American countries, Cuba, Haiti, Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Guatemala, but also Ukraine was in there.
		So those people tend to go where they have friends and family and community.
		So we saw a very large increase in Florida because of the large inflow of South Americans this time.
		California's numbers are actually lower than they were at the peak in 2007, but Texas has been going up.
		In 2007, Texas had 1.2 million more unauthorized immigrants than California did.
		In our estimates, California has 200,000 more.
		So the gap has closed from 1.2 million to 200,000.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk to Jerry in Pittsburgh, Texas, Republican.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Morning, Jerry.
		Mr. Jerry.
		I'm close to 90.
		I remember the immigrants coming in from World War II displaced persons for 40 years, 20 years from 45 to 65.
		Then they passed what's called the Hart Seller Act in 1965 that started bringing people in from Mexico, the Middle East, Africa, and Asia.
		And I didn't start noticing it until the hospital started putting entrants in Spanish in the 70s, early 70s.
		And then we had the immigrants from the Middle East that flew buildings into planes into buildings in America and had some shootings at Christmas and homosexual clubs by Muslims that didn't agree with what they were doing.
		We've had in the last four years estimate of 21 million people from 196 countries.
		That was from a politician that came out of a secret meeting.
		Can you comment on that?
		The sources of immigration have changed substantially since the 1965 Act.
		The principal sources are still Asia and Latin America.
		And, you know, most of the immigrants are in the country legally.
		And, you know, we talked about where these new unauthorized immigrants came from.
		They came mainly from Latin America.
		There are immigrants from the Middle East, but they're not a very large share of either the unauthorized or the legal immigrant population.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		We were talking about this subject earlier today, and one of our callers said that the people that come across the border illegally get $9,000, like a debit card with $9,000 on it.
		They get free health care.
		They get a place to stay.
		Can you tell us what the reality is and what you know about that?
unidentified		Well, immigrants in general and the unauthorized immigrants are not eligible for social welfare programs.
		They don't get welfare.
		They don't get food stamps.
		They don't get, they're not eligible for Medicaid.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Although some states do provide Medicare.
unidentified		Some states provide health care for without regard to legal status, but the federal government doesn't.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here is Albert in Stockton, California, Independent Line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Albert.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Yeah, I just I hear we're talking about the immigrants.
		I am Hispanic.
		I've already said it once before.
		I don't believe there's any prejudices.
		I'm 60.
		I went to Lincoln High School.
		I taught two Asian young lady and a young man how to speak English when I was in ninth grade, and I was not far from a scholar.
		So my question is, and I see all the the I see all the agriculture in Northern California because I work throughout Northern California out of Spanos office property management.
		We also have everybody in there.
		I don't want to start saying Europe, say Venezuela's, whatever.
		So my question is, and I learned it in kindergarten, why can't people understand and follow the rules?
		Simple as that.
		You're either here, if anybody's out there working in those fields, that means they're probably getting paid good if they're here legally.
		And if they're not, they're getting paid back when I was 25.
		You know, the low wage, the $5, and nobody knows who they are because they're way out there.
		That doesn't work.
		I'm going to last but least, this is out of the bird's mouth at a Mexican restaurant where I know the young man was at another one.
		I believe he is an immigrant, and now he's opened his own place.
		And all of them believe that everybody should have to do it legally so we don't drive the wage down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We surely can't drive the wage down because apartments are $2,500 over here at least, and now we got all these people living behind us.
unidentified		But once again, my question is, and why can't people just see and follow the rules, just like my family did?
		I come from the middle of the year.
		All right, Albert.
		Well, one of the issues that affects immigration is that the system for admitting people legally doesn't, most people can't immigrate legally.
		To immigrate legally to the United States, basically you have to have a close relative here.
		And if you don't have, and by close relative, I mean a spouse or a parent, if you don't have a close relative here, there's not really a way to get into the United States legally.
		You know, our system, our system doesn't respond well to a need for labor, a need for workers.
		So we've seen historically, if you look at this 35 years where we have data, the inflows tend to go up and down when the U.S. economy, when the U.S. economy is strong, we get more immigrants and more unauthorized immigrants.
		When the U.S. economy is not, we get fewer and some leave.
		So we went through a period here where there was a very, very strong demand for workers, and that is probably part of the reason why so many people came.
		I mean, we just went through a period with record low unemployment for four years.
		At the same time, we were getting extremely large numbers of immigrants.
		So, you know, there's probably some sort of relationship there.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		We've got a question on X from Maverick.
		Mr. Pacell, you should mention other reasons people migrated to this country over the last 20 years.
		Conditions on the ground in their country made it unlivable.
		What about war?
		What about catastrophic weather conditions, including global warming, forcing them to relocate?
unidentified		Well, largely, if you look at immigration and why people immigrate, there are two kinds of factors.
		There are pull factors, the attraction of family in the United States, of jobs in the United States, of freedom in the United States.
		And there are push factors where people are living in countries with political repression, with weak economies, with weather and climate conditions changing.
		So there's factors pushing people out and there's factors pulling people in.
		We've responded to some of these with some of the humanitarian programs we talked about where we allow people to come because of conditions in their home country or we allow people to stay because it's too dangerous for them to go back.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here's Chris in Tellerosa, New Mexico, Democrat.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Chris.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I live in southern New Mexico, about 90 miles from the Mexican border.
		And in my activities, like in Lulac, for example, I've known a number of unauthorized immigrants.
		And I find them to be just very good people.
		They're looking to feed their families.
		And yet, every time Mr. Trump opens his mouth about immigrants, it's about rapists and murderers.
		These people have been really horribly dehumanized, very much like Germany dehumanized Jews in the 1930s.
		The propaganda is almost identical.
		And, you know, I mean, I would assert that this is just a political ploy to generate a political issue and to generate fear.
		I mean, we've had immigration bills that were shot down, and Mr. Trump himself shot down the last one because they want the issue and they don't want a solution.
		We need their labor.
		You know, here in New Mexico, we need workers to bring in our chili crops.
		We need laborers in the agriculture and construction and hospitality industries.
		And yet we're not getting enough labor, especially agriculture is looking really bad right now.
		And many, many years ago, we had a very circular migration pattern, especially with Mexico, where people would come north, they would work for a while, and then they would go back south.
		But the border has become so militarized that that kind of circular migration now is dangerous and nearly impossible.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Chris, let's get a response.
unidentified		Well, two things.
		One is that, yes, you're exactly right.
		Going back, the flow from Mexico to the U.S. was largely circular, and a lot of people came and went.
		It started really in the 1990s when we started increasing the enforcement at the border.
		And there are analysts and researchers who contend that by closing off the border, we did cut that circular flow, and people who might have gone home ended up staying.
		Immigration and crime is an old, it's a very old idea.
		There's research going back at least 125 years that shows that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than natives.
		And the current data shows that the group that's the least likely to commit crimes is unauthorized immigrants.
		That isn't to say there are not unauthorized immigrants who are criminals, but as a group, unauthorized immigrants are considerably less likely to commit crimes than legal immigrants or natives.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Renee in Georgia is asking you this on text.
		Can immigrants buy their way in legally?
		She says, my area has a lot of wealthy people coming from India with their families.
unidentified		There's a small number of visas available for investors.
		I think it's on the order of a couple of thousand visas a year that are available to people who are willing to invest money in the United States.
		And so that is one way that people can come in.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		There's also the Trump gold card.
		This is an Axios two months ago.
		What to know about Trump's gold card?
		It is there's a website that would enable successful applicants to buy U.S. permanent residency for $5 million.
		And that went live in June.
		You can see that on Axios.
		Let's take a call from Sean in Florida, Independent Line.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Grand Risings to you all.
		There's so much I could talk about on this, but I'm going to preface it with the fact that Trump, President Trump, is the world's greatest used car salesman.
		And I say that because everything he does, every policy, every aspect of anything this man does is about how it looks.
		Using your numbers, you are numbers guy.
		It's what they say, 20 million illegals here.
		If it costed $1,000 to deport every person, you're talking about $20 trillion to deport all these people out of the United States.
		The United States is a capitalistic society, meaning every capitalistic society capitalizes on cheap labor.
		There's no way we're going to deport 20 million people, but it looks good if he acts like he's going to deport 20 million people.
		And he might deport 10, he might deport 2 million, but he's not going to go over that because it will cause such a catastrophe with the economy.
		You see when he started deporting the farm workers in California, that the people started tripping and he stopped because it's not like they really want to get rid of immigration.
		He just wants to make it look good.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Final comment, Jeffrey.
unidentified		Well, the unauthorized immigrants are in the labor force.
		They're more likely to be in the labor force than other groups, and that has to do with the fact that they're mostly of working age.
		They represent about 15% of workers in construction, similar shares in leisure and hospitality, and they're throughout the economy.
		So they don't, they work in the same jobs that natives do.
		But there are jobs that have high concentrations.
		So something like over a third of all the people who put up drywall in the country seem to be unauthorized immigrants.
		So they do play an important role in the economy.
		And I think we'll have to see what happens.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		That's Jeffrey Passell, Senior Demographer for Pew Research Center.
		There at pewresearch.org.
		Thanks so much for joining us today.
unidentified		You're welcome.
unidentified		Thank you for having me.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And we'll finish off the program with an open forum.
		So if you'd like to call in, now's the time to do so.
		Republicans, 202-748-8000.
		Democrats, 202-748-8001.
		And Independents, 202-748-8002.
		We'll be right back.
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		Washington Journal continues.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back to Washington Journal.
		We're an open forum until the end of the program.
		Like to know what's on your mind regarding public policy, things happening in Washington, politics.
		The numbers are Republicans 202-748-8001.
		Democrats are on 202-748-8000.
		And Independents 202-748-8002.
		Also, to let you know that we have coverage of a White House cabinet meeting.
		It will be kicking off at about 11 a.m. Eastern Time.
		We'll have coverage of that right here on C-SPAN.
		You can also follow that on our app, C-SPANNOW, and online at c-span.org.
		Start with Joe in Las Vegas, Republican.
		Hi, Joe.
unidentified		Jeff, good morning.
		How are you doing?
		Good morning.
		Good.
		It's just a watcher program.
		This is first time calling in.
		And some of the things I'd like to say: you know, number one, we like to put everybody in boxes.
		You know, you're a Republican, so you think this way.
		You're a Democrat, you think this way.
		Let's just kind of look at this as where do we get to the facts?
		Can we come in engineering background?
		Let's get to the facts.
		We're using words like unauthorized.
		You know, we see what is legal, what's illegal.
		My question is, listening to the gentleman from the few research, was, you know, the data supports, the data supports.
		Being in construction, I will tell you this, more than 15% of the workforce that's out there are illegal, one former in some form or fashion across all the trades.
		So it's flawed data.
		Number two is when we're looking at the facts, why can't we go without a spend?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Joe, I just wanted to ask you, sorry to cut you off.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You said 16% of the construction industry are illegal immigrants.
unidentified		Well, that's what your gentleman just reported.
		Oh, okay.
		Yeah, he just reported, I'm sorry, 15% is what he said.
		So 15%.
		I can tell you firsthand that it is more than that.
		The bigger issue that we have here is where a lot of people, I've worked and lived in seven different countries.
		Every time I had to have proper immigration to go there.
		So I know what other countries, I come from that perspective.
		I know what it takes to work in other countries.
		You can't get away with it.
		Some of the countries that we're receiving a lot of these immigrants from, when you live there, there's a lot of hardworking people there.
		Not everything is the calamity, you know, climate change.
		We're using that excuse.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So Joe, I just want to ask you, if you don't mind, since you're in the construction business, and I know, so first of all, his numbers were kind of an average across the country, not specific to each state.
		And we know that Nevada does have a higher percentage of unauthorized illegal immigrants.
		So here's my question for you.
		If those illegal immigrants were to be deported or they self-deport or whatever, would those jobs be taken up by Americans or legal permanent residents?
		What do you think of specifically the construction industry?
unidentified		Great question.
		And the reason why I say yes, it will be.
		We can fill the need is because we would get actual tradesmen.
		One of the biggest problems that we have in construction is you get a guy who's coming here illegally.
		And look, he's just trying to feed himself, feed his family.
		And no blame for that.
		It's survival.
		And one day he may be a drywaller.
		The next day he may be a painter.
		The next day, you know, unfortunately, we see them in trades like with electrical.
		And then you go back, there's so many flaws, so many code violations when they're putting this in.
		It's a life safety issue because they don't come from the type of construction technical.
		So yes, in the construction industry, we do have those people who can come take those jobs.
		But the problem is you, for example, in Phoenix, if you want a framer on a mid-rise or low-rise construction, there's four people who are connected with the cartel in Phoenix who control all of the framers.
		Those are the dots, and you're going to negotiate with those dots.
		So they're bringing that mentality from their country to work with those cartel bosses, to work with those people who then control this.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Joe.
		Here's Ray, Democrat, Fayetteville, North Carolina.
		Good morning, Ray.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I want to go a different direction here.
		This president made a statement, I think it was last week, that he's going to look at the Smithsonian Institute and see what, you know, liable and what's not liable.
		Now, I guarantee you, over half of the people are more, probably more than that.
		That stoplight that you go through every day, invented by a black man.
		That refrigerator that cools your food, that motor on the refrigerator, invented by a black man.
		That first open-heart surgery, blood transfusion, were innovated by a black man.
		Okay?
		The first astronauts that went into space, the astronauts trusted nobody except a black woman to do the numbers to bring them back in the atmosphere.
		This man is trying to completely destroy black history.
		There are hundreds and hundreds of main inventions that the black man innovated in this nation, and he's trying to destroy it.
		And you had a gentleman to call in yesterday and said, every time the president's numbers gone down and you do a survey on raping the president, you got these radical groups that try to flood the lines.
		You understand what I'm talking about?
		Flood the line, try and make him look better.
		Okay, I had much more, but I'm going to get off.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And here's Alan, Independent Line, Mercer, Pennsylvania.
		Hi, Alan.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yes, I'd like to say the problem with the military, I feel that they should check with the police.
		For example, the murders in Chicago are outrageous if you check what happens every weekend.
		I think they should check with the police to see that.
		Do you feel that you are safer because the military is there to help?
		And if the murders are cut in half, there's still murders.
		So I can't see how anyone would not want to help where you have outrageous crime and murders in these big cities.
		That's all I want to say.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here's Lois in Missouri, Republican.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I just wanted to comment that an earlier caller, I was a little disappointed because an earlier caller was going on about Trump and made the statement that he raped a 13-year-old girl.
		And you didn't comment on that or ask her where she got her facts or why she would say that.
		I was just a little disappointed in that.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And here's Tracy La Crosse, Wisconsin, Democrat.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Tracy.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I would just like to shed a little light on the fact that Trump recently said that there would be big consequences if when he met with Putin, if there wasn't a ceasefire, nothing happened.
		I just read yesterday that Russian jets were buzzing Alaska, and now Tritus had to go, you know, check them.
		And also, last week, Russia bombed a United States factory in Ukraine.
		How come nobody's talking about this?
		How come Trump isn't responding to this, responding to this forcibly?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		A U.S. Sorry, a U.S. factory in Ukraine was bombed.
unidentified		A U.S. facility in Ukraine was bombed.
		I heard you all mention it on your show, but you didn't do a segment about it.
		A U.S.-owned facility in Ukraine was struck by the Russians.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let me try to find out some more information about that.
		Okay, here it is.
		Yes.
		So Tess Trump not happy with the strike on U.S. factory in Ukraine.
		It says President Trump showed off a photo of himself with President Putin saying the Russian president may visit for the World Cup moments before stating that he is quote not happy that Russian forces struck a U.S. factory in Ukraine.
		That's at NBC News.
unidentified		Okay, now yep.
		Okay, now with that happening and their planes buzz in Alaska and the other thing that happened, why isn't he, you know, on TV?
		Well, I thought there was going to be big repercussions if it wasn't a ceasefire.
		Anybody can see.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		We heard that, Tracy.
		John in Portage, Michigan, Independent Line.
		Good morning, John.
unidentified		Morning, Meanie.
		I'm just calling with the idea of maybe solving the illegal immigration problem with using economics and financial disincentives, and specifically just having a higher federal minimum wage for foreigners.
		So if you can't prove your American citizenship, then you're just automatically subject to a higher minimum wage than what America would be subject to.
		And so in that way, we kind of incentivize American businesses to hire American citizens.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Wouldn't it be more useful to just have employers check the citizenship, right?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Like e-verify, or you feel like that's not the law wouldn't be a big enough incentive.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		If you did, if you did have an employer and they didn't verify it and they neglected to pay the higher minimum wage, then they would have a labor department after them.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		I see.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's an interesting.
william lewis ▲ ● ▼		They would incentivize checking the citizenship by the employer so that they could, in fact, pay the lower minimum wage to the American that they had verified.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
		Tom in Massachusetts, Independent.
		Hi, Tom.
unidentified		How are you?
		I just wanted to call you talking about the immigration issue.
		And I just wanted to point out, I think what the gentleman, you previous gentleman was saying about immigration, I think it's far worse than what he really thinks in certain states, like here, for example.
		I moved here about 10 years ago, and they have a McDonald's, they have a Burger King, and Dunkin' Donuts across the street.
		When I first moved here, all the kids that went to the high school all worked there.
		They all had a job.
		They all worked there.
		Today, every single person in those three restaurants are all illegal aliens allowed to work by the state of Massachusetts.
		Those kids, from Sheltridge, they can't find a job anymore.
		They are totally shut out.
		Totally, completely shut out.
		So if that's not a problem.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Tom, is the state of Massachusetts allowing illegal immigrants to work?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Are they giving them work permits?
unidentified		I would say yes.
		It appears so.
		I mean, none of them speak a word of English.
		There's no way that these people, 16 years old, that can't barely speak English, stood in line and got a green card to do the math.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		No, but the question was: not are they illegal, but is the state of Massachusetts?
unidentified		I don't know how the state of Massachusetts runs their laws.
		Everything's upside down in this state, so I couldn't tell you.
		Half the stuff is hidden from the public.
		All right, gotcha.
		So I don't know.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here's David in Clinton Township, Maryland, Democrat.
		Good morning.
		Or Michigan.
		Sorry.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Yep.
		Just the caller who called two calls ago about complaining about the reports of Donald Trump having sex with a young 15-year-old girl.
		She was saying that I don't know what that was.
		I was busy.
		I was running around.
		But her name is Katie Johnson.
		If anyone wants to know, they can Google Katie Johnson and find the reports.
		There's at least a dozen reports from a myriad of news organizations who have reported on that.
		There was a court filing against Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein for raping this 15-year-old girl, Katie Johnson.
		The only way her attorney withdrew the charges was because the young lady had death threats against her and her family.
		I'm not saying where those death threats came from, but that's the only reason that did not go to trial.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And here is William North Carolina Independent Line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I just want to say a few things.
		First of all, I lived in South Florida for a number of years, and I lived in Palm Beach County.
larry pinkney ▲ ● ▼		And what I have really, this Jeffrey Epstein thing has really bothered me is because at that same time, my daughter was going to Royal Palm Beach High School in West Palm Beach.
unidentified		Palm Beach, this thing with Jeffrey Epstein was going on at that time.
		And I talked to my daughter about two weeks ago, and I asked her, because she never mentioned it.
		I didn't ever really, I heard about it, but I did really think about it.
		Yes, she says, yes, they were recruiting young girls from the high school, from Royal Peach, Palm Beach High School, going to Palm Beach for this fall.
		And this guy gets a sweetheart deal.
		And Donald Trump, if anybody knows anything about Palm Beach, Donald Trump is influential.
		Donald Trump is a major player.
		And I believe Donald Trump was involved.
		I believe in my heart that, you know, he probably did do what they said he did.
		He is a pedophile.
		And I don't know what's wrong with you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, William, we're out of time.
		But real quick, Newsweek, Donald Trump, Katie Johnson allegations, everything we know.
		It says that the lawsuit filed in federal court in Riverside in April of 2016 named Trump and Epstein, the late convicted sex offender, as defendants.
		They claim the men held Johnson as a sex slave in 1994 when she was 13, forced her to perform sex acts.
		A judge dismissed the case in May that year, ruling that the complaint didn't raise valid claims under federal law, according to Politico, at that time.
		And that's all the time we've got for today's Washington Journal.
		We're back again tomorrow morning at 7 a.m. Eastern.
		Thanks for watching, everybody.

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