| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
|
unidentified
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Church in Richmond, Virginia. | |
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| We are back more on the Trump Putin summit. | ||
| We're joined by Brad Bowman, who is the senior director for the Center on Military and Political Powers at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. | ||
| Brad Bowman, let's begin with the president just taking off from Joint Base Andrews. | ||
| Long flight for him, similar length of flight for the Russian President Putin, and meeting in Anchorage, Alaska. | ||
| According to BBC, this is what the Russian president wants out of this summit. | ||
| Territorial control of eastern Ukraine. | ||
| Ukraine to back off plans to join NATO. | ||
| End to the U.S.-EU sanctions. | ||
| And potential restart of nuclear talks with the United States. | ||
| Let's just begin with each of those. | ||
| Territorial control of parts of eastern Ukraine. | ||
| So, you know, I've thank you for the opportunity to join you and thanks for the question. | ||
| You know, over the last three years since Putin started this unprovoked naked aggression, this massive reinvasion of Ukraine, I've referred to what he's doing as being a home invader. | ||
| He's invading the home of Ukrainians. | ||
| And what he's essentially demanding is equivalent to a home invader saying, let me keep the part of your home that I've stolen, and then I'll stop attacking the rest. | ||
| So he basically wants to lock in his control of Luhansk and Donetsk, Zaporizha, and Kherson Oblast. | ||
| And he'd like to keep as much of that as possible. | ||
| And then he wants to weaken Ukraine so that he can come back for more later. | ||
| You know, I was watching a clip on NBC News this morning and there was a really touching interview of a funeral. | ||
| And the crew had gotten permission from the family to video their funeral. | ||
| Of course, the mother was inconsolable because she had just lost her younger son who had been drafted and he went off to fight on the front line and was killed by Russians. | ||
| He was defending his home against this invasion and she was there mourning underneath the cross above his grave. | ||
| And he left behind two children. | ||
| And after, just shortly after the funeral had concluded, they had to wrap it up because there was another one right behind it, they interviewed the older brother. | ||
| And the older brother was asked what he thought about this idea of trading land for a ceasefire. | ||
| And he said, you know, if we have a ceasefire like this, the Russians are going to come back stronger and do this again and again. | ||
| And you can't trust the Russians. | ||
| This is a man who just lost his younger brother, leaving behind two children, who's fighting and risking his life defending his homes. | ||
| And he's closest to the threat. | ||
| He understands best. | ||
| And that's what he's saying. | ||
| And I think we should listen. | ||
| I'm going to show you the BBC map that we showed our viewers earlier. | ||
| You were talking about the Russian military control in Ukraine. | ||
| If you can just speak to that map a little bit, those red territories. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah, so I just mentioned the four main oblasts in question. | ||
| And so you have Luhansk in the northeast there, on the right of the screen. | ||
| You have Donetsk, which together we refer to as the Donbass. | ||
| Russia currently controls almost all of Luhansk. | ||
| and control a majority of Donetsk. | ||
| That's where much of the fighting and some of the lines where we see the lines shifting to a modest incremental way. | ||
| That's happening in Donetsk. | ||
| And the reason Zaporizhia and Kherson Oblast are important to Putin is that as you can see on the map there, it provides a land bridge to Crimea, which of course Putin, via his little green men invasion of 2014, now controls, and that's Ukrainian territory as well. | ||
| So in short, he wants to keep what he has, get as much as possible, and basically saying, give me what I've stolen, and then I'll stop attacking you. | ||
| And by the way, after that, Ukraine, you need to disarm and not join NATO. | ||
| And why would he want Ukraine to disarm? | ||
| And why would he want Ukraine to not join NATO? | ||
| Well, because he's not done with Ukraine. | ||
| He wants more and he's going to be back for more. | ||
| And anyone who's looked at Putin for more than a day or two understands that. | ||
| So he also wants an end to U.S. and EU sanctions. | ||
| Why is that? | ||
| Are the sanctions working? | ||
| The sanctions are having some effect, but they are far from sufficient. | ||
| There is so much more that the United States can do with our European allies to impose economic consequences on Putin. | ||
| Unfortunately, since January 20th, when President Trump returned for a second term, it seems to me, and I think this is a fair characterization, the carrots have been for Russia and the sticks have been for Ukraine. | ||
| And that's exactly backwards, because let's remember there's no moral equivalence here. | ||
| Ukraine is the invaded and Russia is the invader. | ||
| And you don't give carrots to the invader and sticks for the invaded. | ||
| That's exactly backwards. | ||
| So, you know, there's been a learning curve, shall we say, over the last many months in the second Trump term. | ||
| We're in a better place now. | ||
| We've had some cul-de-sacs along the way, some statements that I would have regretted. | ||
| I'm not sure I would have advised this summit. | ||
| The president is saying he's going to be listening. | ||
| Well, if anyone who's listening understands what the Kremlin wants, they keep telling us. | ||
| And I do give the President credit for this. | ||
| He wants the killing to stop. | ||
| I mean, the casualties on both sides have been extraordinary. | ||
| Roughly a million casualties, dead and wounded in Russians, roughly half that Ukrainians. | ||
| This is the worst war in Europe since World War II. | ||
| Anyone with a heart wants this to stop, of course. | ||
| But how wars stop matter? | ||
| And there's a good peace and bad peace. | ||
| And bad peace tend to lead to more conflict in the future. | ||
| So yes, let's end the suffering. | ||
| Yes, let's get the ceasefire. | ||
| The key American demand here, in my opinion, that President Trump will hopefully pursue in his call with the European leaders in Olensky suggests that he'll do this. | ||
| I hope he follows through, is that he'll demand a full, immediate, unconditional ceasefire and not give anything to Putin for that. | ||
| Putin's going to come. | ||
| He's going to flatter. | ||
| He's going to manipulate. | ||
| He's going to deceive. | ||
| He's going to be duplicitous. | ||
| Of course he is. | ||
| He spent more than 15 years in the KGB. | ||
| That's what he's trained to do, of course. | ||
| I mean, you know, President Trump himself said, you know, I have a very nice phone call with Vladimir. | ||
| And then Melania says, well, he just attacked another city last night. | ||
| So, you know, I hope the president listens and confirms his gut instincts about Vladimir Putin. | ||
| More importantly, I hope he speaks. | ||
| And when he should speak, I think, would be, end this unprovoked naked aggression or the consequences start tomorrow. | ||
| But if you keep threatening consequences and you don't implement it, you're like a bad parent that says, stop it, stop it, or I'll spank you. | ||
| And the spank never comes. | ||
| And the child realizes I can do whatever the heck I want and get away with it. | ||
| On the consequences, the New York Times reports this morning that there could be more done with sanctions against China for buying Russian oil. | ||
| And India, despite the president saying sanctions are coming for buying Russian oil, said they're going to keep doing it. | ||
| Yes, no. | ||
| I mean, let's remember, the Ukrainians are basically fighting all four members, what we've been calling it at our research institute, the Axis of Aggressors. | ||
| They're essentially fighting China, Russia, Iran, North Korea in some way. | ||
| I mean, Iran, don't forget, has sent these Shahed 136 drones. | ||
| They've helped Russia build a manufacturing facility inside Russia that's going to allow Russia to, instead of sending dozens of drones, we're talking about hundreds of drones per attack trying to overwhelm the Ukrainian defenses. | ||
| The North Koreans have sent troops, they've sent artillery, and the Chinese have provided dual-use support for the Russian defense industry. | ||
| And many of the weapons that Russia is using to kill Ukrainian men, women, and children have Chinese parts in them. | ||
| So, you know, we have a beleaguered democratic partner that is not asking Americans to come and fight and die on their behalf. | ||
| They're simply asking for the means to defend their homes against this unprovoked invasion. | ||
| American support for Ukraine is a wise investment. | ||
| It's not charity. | ||
| It's sustainable. | ||
| If you look at what we've spent providing security assistance to Ukraine, it's less than the equivalent of 2.8% of what we spent on the Pentagon over the same time period. | ||
| We can do that forever. | ||
| And that should be the message of Vladimir Putin. | ||
| Not only are we going to sell American weapons Europeans will deliver into Ukraine, we're going to do presidential drawdown authority, we're going to do current Ukraine security assistance initiative, and we're going to have sectoral sanctions and other steps to reduce the oil revenue that Putin's getting to fund this unprovoked war. | ||
| Also, the Council of Foreign Relations has put these numbers together based on the Kiel Institute and other resources that shows Europe has committed more aid to Ukraine than the United States has. | ||
| When you take Europe as a whole, look at that number on your screen. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Billions more than the U.S. | ||
| The U.S., though, has, when you break it down, each European country, the United States, has spent more. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| You know, I mean, the United States is a leading contributor to helping Ukraine continue to exist and defeat this unprovoked invasion. | ||
| But yes, when you combine the aggregate contributions, overall contributions, Europe has contributed more. | ||
| And that's been true for a long time. | ||
| And what's true recently is now they're just barely exceeding the United States in the aggregate on security assistance. | ||
| So for anyone listening, if you've heard otherwise, that's just not true. | ||
| And by the way, remember the number I just said. | ||
| I mean, as of last September, the percentage has gotten even lower. | ||
| It's less than the equivalent of 2.8% of what we spent on the Pentagon. | ||
| For what? | ||
| We're degrading the second leading conventional threat we confront. | ||
| We're helping Ukraine continue to exist. | ||
| We're reducing the chances of a direct war between U.S. and Russia where you would have Americans fighting, dying. | ||
| And we're sending a very helpful deterrent message to Beijing that Americans are not neutral when it comes to naked aggression, which will impact their decision-making in the Taiwan Strait. | ||
| Brad Bowman referred to the Russian president's bio earlier. | ||
| Take a look at this. | ||
| He's been the president since 2019. | ||
| And he, excuse me, he's been the president since 2012, served also as president from 2000 to 2008. | ||
| He was the prime minister, you'll recall, for four years. | ||
| And Dmitry Medvedev was the president during that time. | ||
| And then he's the former director of Russia's Federal Security Service and served in the Soviet KGB intelligence service for 16 years. | ||
| Let's get to calls, see what our viewers have to say here. | ||
| Michael in Rochester, New York, Republican. | ||
| Michael, good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, good morning. | |
| I just want to bring this to the attention of the listening audience here. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Ukraine was invaded under Barack Obama. | ||
| I mean, Carmir was invaded under Barack Obama. | ||
| Ukraine invaded under Joe Biden. | ||
| And they did nothing. | ||
| When Trump got into office, he ended the North Stream pipeline. | ||
| To y'all that are listening here, the North Stream pipeline is how Russia gets its revenue. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| And he ended that North Stream pipeline to Europe and start funding Europe. | ||
| Europe was using the Americans' gas lines. | ||
| Then not only that right there, when Biden gets in office, the first thing Biden does, he restated the North Stream pipeline so Putin could fund his war. | ||
| And then, you know, what is going on here is going to be an all-out assault on President Trump, who inherited Crimea being invaded by Russia under Biden and now Ukraine. | ||
| And this all-out assault is going to be by those like that gentleman you got there, a Trump-hating individual. | ||
| Trump has NATO increase his defense budget to help Ukraine. | ||
| Trump is doing practically everything he can. | ||
| And if the asteroid happened a zillion miles away from here, it'll be Donald Trump's fault. | ||
| All right, Michael, let's unpack what you had to say. | ||
| Brad Bowman, there's a lot there. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, thank you, Michael. | ||
| Thanks for the call. | ||
| I share your passion on this issue because I think it really matters. | ||
| And I appreciate the historical references. | ||
| Let me give you a few more historical references. | ||
| In 2008, Vladimir Putin invaded Georgia, unprovoked invasion there. | ||
| Russian forces continue to occupy part of Georgia and keep moving the boundary, creating a frozen conflict, much to Vladimir Putin's liking. | ||
| In 2014, Vladimir Putin's Little Green Min, as I referenced earlier, invaded Crimea and continued to occupy all of Crimea today. | ||
| And in 2022, Vladimir Putin launched a massive re-invasion. | ||
| And by the way, between 2014 and 2022, he sparked a war in the Donbass where thousands of people were dying in Ukrainian territory. | ||
| And then in 2022, as we know, we've had this massive re-invasion. | ||
| And so that's some key historical anecdotes to keep in mind. | ||
| So you're talking about partisan blame. | ||
| The way I would say it is there's plenty of blame to go around. | ||
| I could give you an hour lecture on all the good things and bad things that previous presidents have done. | ||
| But I would just respectfully say, if we're spending more time criticizing the other party, then you're missing the point. | ||
| Russia wants us to be divided as Americans. | ||
| They want us to be more focused on the other party than the fact that this is naked self-aggrandizing conquest by Vladimir Putin. | ||
| So if you're spending more time thinking and talking about the other party or the other president, you're playing right into Vladimir Putin's hands and you're missing the whole point. | ||
| And sir, you say I'm Trump hating. | ||
| I'm really just trying to call balls and strikes. | ||
| So let me compliment one thing that President Trump has done. | ||
| He has elicited commitments from our European allies to increase defense spending, 3.5% on core defense spending, 1.5% on non-defense spending for a total of 5% at the recent NATO summit. | ||
| By when? | ||
| 2035. | ||
| That's not soon enough. | ||
| Okay, so nice job getting those commitments, but I would have liked to see it 2035. | ||
| So I think what you're hearing from me is a willingness to call balls and strikes. | ||
| And I think we need a little bit more of that right now. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| All right. | ||
| We'll go to Steve, Chatsworth, Illinois, Independent. | ||
| Steve. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, basically, I'm going to follow the other caller. | |
| And I'm going to say, Joe Biden said on national TV, oh, if Russia does a small invasion in Crimea, or not Crimea, Ukraine, no big deal. | ||
| He stood up in front of everybody and said, no big deal. | ||
| All right, Steve, let's take that. | ||
| Yeah, no, so this is a similar tone from the previous caller where the focus is again on a partisan politics here in the United States. | ||
| And I'm sitting here in Washington where the politics seem particularly tribalistic and vitriolic these days. | ||
| And that's the liking of our adversaries. | ||
| The more we are at basket cases here at home, the more we're sniping in each other, the less unified we are, the weaker we are, and the less we are able to protect our interests overseas. | ||
| And let there be no doubt, America has interests in Europe. | ||
| Some of our best allies are there. | ||
| We have vital economic interests there. | ||
| And two world wars started in the first half of the 20th century in Europe that pulled us in, and more than 500,000 Americans ultimately made the ultimate sacrifice. | ||
| So I'm going to focus on issues like that, the American interest, and I'm going to leave the partisan sniping to others. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Let's go to Alaska and show our viewers the joint base, Elmendorf-Richardson. | ||
| Look at this map. | ||
| This is where the two leaders will be meeting at this military base north of Anchorage. | ||
| When you look at that map, Brad Bowman, what do you make of holding this summit here in Alaska? | ||
| I would have, if asked, I would have advised President Trump not to do this because I think it is a political diplomatic win for Vladimir Putin. | ||
| It reduces his isolation. | ||
| It gives him an international podium and platform that suggests an equivalence between Russia and the United States and between the leader of the free world, dare I say, and Vladimir Putin, who's committed war crimes in places like Buka in Ukraine and who is overseeing the abduction of thousands of Ukrainian children. | ||
| And the list goes on and on and on. | ||
| And, you know, if you buy the numbers that are reporting 1 million dead Russians, excuse me, casualties, 1 million Russian casualties, roughly half that Ukrainians, that's 1.5 million casualties for a self-aggrandizing war of conquest. | ||
| If that sounds ancient and ugly, it is. | ||
| It is. | ||
| News flash, human nature hasn't changed. | ||
| Wars of conquest still happen. | ||
| And some principles are still worth fighting for. | ||
| Listen to that older brother at that funeral outside of Kharkiv. | ||
| He understands the Russian bear. | ||
| He said that standing on the outskirts of Kharkiv. | ||
| He says they'll be back in the future and they'll be stronger. | ||
| And the Russians don't keep their agreements. | ||
| Don't keep their agreements. | ||
| You don't believe me? | ||
| Look at the Budapest memorandum where Russia committed to respecting the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine. | ||
| Have they done that? | ||
| Note to self, they haven't. | ||
| Maybe we should learn from that. | ||
| We'll go to Ron, Round Lake, Illinois, Republican. | ||
| Hi, Ron. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| First of all, you wear your Democratic Party on your sleeve. | ||
| So you keep on yelling, complaining about this divide that we have in this country, and you're part of that divide. | ||
| So let's just get past that. | ||
| Right now, at least he's talking to Putin. | ||
| At least he's got this losing a little land in Ukraine, it's a lot better than losing more lives. | ||
| Joe Biden slow walked all that material, the military aid to Russia instead of giving what they needed all at once right away. | ||
| We spent $300 billion of our money, my tax dollars that I work hard for every day, on a country that that doesn't affect us as much as it affects Europe. | ||
| You say, oh, the percentages are so much higher for the EU. | ||
| The EU is numerous countries. | ||
| It's numerous countries pitching in. | ||
| This is just the United States money. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Brad Bowman. | ||
| Yeah, thanks for the call. | ||
| Sir, so, you know, it's good to do a little research before you make an assertion. | ||
| You say I wear my Democratic Party on my sleeve. | ||
| I'm not a member of the Democratic Party. | ||
| Actually, I worked for three Republican senators in the U.S. Senate, sir. | ||
| So if that's a qualification for being a member of the Democratic Party, I'm not sure I understand that. | ||
| But I work at a non-partisan think tank now. | ||
| And as you can see, I'm trying to call balls and strikes as best I can. | ||
| So you cited the $300 billion number. | ||
| That's just not accurate, sir. | ||
| Spend five minutes Googling. | ||
| Be careful what sources you rely on. | ||
| That number is not accurate. | ||
| And like I said, this is a wise investment for the United States. | ||
| You know, people talk about endless wars, right? | ||
| 170,000 troops in Iraq fighting at the high watermark, 100,000 American troops fighting Afghanistan at the high watermark. | ||
| There's not a single uniformed American service member fighting in Ukraine right now. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| Ukraine is simply asking for a Louisville slugger baseball bat over the back fence so they can brutalize Vladimir Putin, the home invader, not for purpose of brutalizing someone, for making him reconsider his line of work. | ||
| That is not a Democrat talking point. | ||
| That is not a Republican talking point. | ||
| That is a talking point and a fact that is based on a clear-eyed view of American national security interests. | ||
| So again, third caller here, where you're focusing on the politics, take a deep breath, look in the mirror, think about what kind of world you want for your children. | ||
| Do you want a world of citizens or a world of subjects? | ||
| Vladimir Putin, I'm borrowing from Kurt Volcker there. | ||
| He wants this world of subjects, where the might makes right, borders don't matter. | ||
| Is that the kind of world you want? | ||
| I don't want that kind of world, and that's why I think we should be supporting Ukraine. | ||
| On the number of U.S. aid to Ukraine from the Council on Foreign Relations, they total it at $195 billion. | ||
| You can take a look at when, the time of year, the month, the time of year, when packages to Ukraine were approved by executive action or otherwise, $14 billion in March of 2022, followed by another $41 billion in May of 2022. | ||
| In October that same year, $12 billion. | ||
| And then January of 2023, $47 billion. | ||
| The president in the Oval Office yesterday, he put that number at $350 billion. | ||
| That's where you hear viewers echoing that number. | ||
| Has the Trump administration allowed any more money to go to Ukraine? | ||
| So it's a great question. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| So what we've seen since January 20th is basically weapons that the Biden administration committed to provide Ukraine. | ||
| Those have continued to flow with two exceptions. | ||
| We had the suspension of the flow of weapons in March, and we had that again in July. | ||
| And the Pentagon did that on July 1st, and then Trump reversed it on July 7th. | ||
| And when he was asked by a CNN reporter who did that, he said, I don't know. | ||
| And then he reversed it. | ||
| And we actually dug down into the weapons that were suspended. | ||
| The Pentagon's argument was we had to do that because we didn't have enough. | ||
| We looked weapon system by weapon system. | ||
| They're right that we don't have enough air and missile defense capabilities, but we looked at the others and it just didn't stand up to scrutiny if I'm being honest. | ||
| We can afford to help Ukraine. | ||
| We can arm ourselves and help our other beleaguered Democratic partners at the same time. | ||
| If we're spending enough on defense, making wise investments in our defense industrial base and our munitions, we can do this. | ||
| And as I keep saying, it's a wise investment that's sustainable. | ||
| It's far more sustainable than what Vladimir Putin is doing. | ||
| We can do this forever. | ||
| He can't. | ||
| And I think that's one of the messages that Donald, I would recommend respectfully President Trump convey in Alaska. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Gabriel Burlington, Kentucky, Democratic caller. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, yes. | |
| I just wanted to say that I really agree with the guests. | ||
| It's really sad to see the Ukraine war become a political issue. | ||
| And I long for the days when both sides really wholeheartedly supported Ukraine. | ||
| And Russia is obviously a really bad actor and pulling out of the SART treaty. | ||
| And they're not really holding up to all of their obligations. | ||
| And I just want to say we love Brian Lamb and boil her up. | ||
| All right, Greg, Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, independent caller. | ||
| Hi, Greg. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, C-SPAN. | |
| Guest, I have a question for you and also for Ms. Bronner. | ||
| Let me start with Ms. Bronner. | ||
| Why cross-examine people this morning? | ||
| I tried to get in many times about Senator Murphy. | ||
| Senator Murphy is a partisan hack. | ||
| If you're going to cross-examine people and ask, reply to this politician statement, you should do it to all sides. | ||
| And you do not. | ||
| And I've called in multiple times. | ||
| Now, do when people call in on the comment line, do hosts like you ever listen to them and/or get a summary of comments that are made? | ||
| Yeah, where I'm listening to you right now, Greg. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And I'll just say. | |
| I made a comment earlier this morning on the comment line. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| I see. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
202-737-3220. | |
| Anybody listening who tried to get in and didn't get in, you can call that number, follow the prompts, you can leave a message. |