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unidentified
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C-SPAN, Democracy Unfiltered. | |
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| Welcome back to Washington Journal. | ||
| Joining us to talk about the federal takeover of DC police and policing across the country is Jillian Snyder. | ||
| She's senior fellow at the R Street Institute. | ||
| Jillian, welcome to the program. | ||
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unidentified
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Thank you for having me. | |
| Can you just tell us about your focus at R Street, what you work on there, and your background in law enforcement? | ||
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unidentified
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Sure. | |
| So R Street, we have a lot of portfolios, but I am currently a resident senior fellow on the criminal justice and civil liberties team. | ||
| So there we focus on all facets of the criminal justice system, specifically looking at policing, pre-trial, what happens when someone goes through the system and what we can do to fix post-conviction relief. | ||
| I've been there about 40 years, and I'm proud to say that my policing career at the NYPD was what inspired me to go into working at a public policy think tank. | ||
| Having that practical knowledge and that on-the-ground understanding of how the system works and operates allows me to contribute to meaningful changes. | ||
| So this week, as you know, President Trump announced the federal takeover of DC police and the deployment of National Guard in the city. | ||
| He says that crime is out of control and this is despite, as you know, FBI data showing that violent crime is going down in the city. | ||
| But do you think these actions were warranted? | ||
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unidentified
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Looking at it from a police perspective, DC Metro Police are about 700 police officers short currently. | |
| That's a huge number. | ||
| When you're operating in a city like the district and you are supposed to have roughly 3,800 cops and you have about 3,100, that's a huge chunk of your patrol capacities being negatively impacted. | ||
| So understanding why the administration did it from a cop's perspective, I get it completely. | ||
| The resources are needed. | ||
| I think personally that what needs to happen is the federal agents that are there, the National Guard that's there, the administration needs to be working very closely with the police chief, the mayor, the boots on the ground officers that are working for MPD, because ultimately this will end. | ||
| When it happens, we don't know. | ||
| But in the meantime, when all the federal resources depart, it's still going to be MPD that's there dealing day in and day out with the citizens of the district. | ||
| When you say that the DC police are about 700 people short, how is that number calculated? | ||
| Is it a number of cops per capita in cities, or how do you come to understanding how many cops are required for a given city? | ||
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unidentified
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It varies across the cities, obviously. | |
| It looks at crime data. | ||
| It looks at per capita. | ||
| I know NYPD, where I worked, at one point made over 42,000 police officers. | ||
| And that was at the time considered optimal. | ||
| Now they're operating about 33,000. | ||
| And obviously that's suboptimal. | ||
| But a lot of variables will go into determining what is the appropriate staffing level. | ||
| I don't know how DC does it specifically, but one would be looking at tourists' influxes, looking at amount of businesses within the area, looking amount of population density, and then as well as taking in crime statistics, of course. | ||
| And so, first of all, why is there that big of a shortage? | ||
| And what do you do about it? | ||
| How do you recruit and train more police officers? | ||
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unidentified
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DC, unfortunately, is not the only agency that's suffering. | |
| We're seeing this across the board. | ||
| I recently co-authored a paper with my colleague on the recruitment and retention crisis, looking at agencies across the nation and seeing that approximately 72% of all law enforcement agencies are reporting issues with recruiting and retaining cops. | ||
| So you're seeing in major areas like New York, like LA, like Chicago, like DC, you are not at that optimal level of staffing, whatever and how it's determined. | ||
| The last few years, obviously, with the criticisms against police and the scrutiny that they've faced, it's made the job less appealing. | ||
| But it's important because we've only been talking about this since 2020 and 2021. | ||
| We actually started seeing officers leaving the force before the pandemic. | ||
| After 9-11, we had a surge of people wanting to join law enforcement, myself included. | ||
| And that whole group of people are now eligible for retirement. | ||
| Many of the pension structures are 20 or 25 years and then you retire. | ||
| So all of those people that came on after 9-11 are now eligible to leave. | ||
| They're not finding the younger generation wanting this job. | ||
| I mean, looking at it now, I retired about five years ago and my husband just retired. | ||
| And I loved being a police officer, but it's so challenging. | ||
| It's not easy to raise a family. | ||
| It's not easy to have a routine life. | ||
| You don't work bankers' hours of nine to five. | ||
| You work holidays. | ||
| You work weekends. | ||
| And then on top of all of that, you are dealing with people in most cases on the worst day of their life. | ||
| So you need to understand that not everyone's going to love you. | ||
| Not everyone's going to appreciate you. | ||
| And the younger generation out there, they don't really want to be dealing with negativity all the time. | ||
| And that's basically what policing is. | ||
| If you'd like to join our conversation, if you have a question about policing, crime rates across the country, or specifically the federal takeover of DC police, you can give us a call. | ||
| Our lines are regional. | ||
| So it's 202-748-8000 if you're in the Eastern or Central time zones. | ||
| It's 202-748-8001 for Mountain North Pacific time zones. | ||
| And D.C. residents, if you'd like to call us, you can do that on 202-748-8002. | ||
| Jillian, I want to play you a portion of comments from White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt from Tuesday, highlighting the actions that the newly deployed law enforcement officers took Monday night in DC and then get your take on it. | ||
| On another matter, yesterday, President Trump took bold action to finally restore law and order right here in our nation's capital. | ||
| The president declared a crime emergency in the District of Columbia, federalized the DC Police Department, and mobilized the D.C. National Guard to end violent crime in our nation's capital. | ||
| As part of the president's massive law enforcement surge, last night, approximately 850 officers and agents were surged across the city. | ||
| They made a total of 23 arrests, including multiple other contacts. | ||
| Last night, these arrests consisted of homicide, firearms offenses, possession with intent to distribute narcotics, fare evasion, lewd acts, stalking, possession of a high-capacity magazine, fleeing to a lewd in a vehicle, no permits, driving under the influence, reckless driving, and a bench warrant. | ||
| A total of six illegal handguns were seized off of District of Columbia streets as part of last night's effort. | ||
| This is only the beginning. | ||
| Over the course of the next month, the Trump administration will relentlessly pursue and arrest every violent criminal in the district who breaks the law, undermines public safety, and endangers law-abiding Americans. | ||
| President Trump will not be deterred by soft-on-crime Democrats and media activists who refuse to acknowledge this rampant violence on our streets. | ||
| He is going to make our nation's capital the most beautiful and safe city on Earth, just as he promised on the campaign trail. | ||
| Jillian, are you there? | ||
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unidentified
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Yes, I am. | |
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Okay, go ahead. | ||
| Your reaction to that. | ||
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unidentified
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I know that the numbers have actually increased since that announcement with more arrests being made. | |
| I did appreciate the fact that they went through the list showing that they're not just targeting low-level disorderly crimes, that they are purposely focusing on felonies, getting illegal handguns off the street, looking at where maybe drug dispensaries or drug distributing centers are. | ||
| But the most important thing is the they want to make sure that DC residents feel safe. | ||
| And I think that's like where everyone's missing this conversation. | ||
| We know that crime stats have shown decreases, and we get that. | ||
| And social science researchers, cops, everyone who understands crime is going down, but that doesn't mean D.C. residents feel safe. | ||
| And I think that the main purpose of this surge, as it's called, is to flood these hotspots, flood the zones that are seeing the increases in crime, the increases in violence, and making a bigger impact. | ||
| And again, because the DC Metro Police Department is operating with thinner resources, having this supportive backup with federal agents is going to allow them to at least do targeted hotspot searching. | ||
| And let's go to callers now. | ||
| Let's start with Wayne in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. | ||
| Good morning, Wayne. | ||
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unidentified
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All right. | |
| How y'all doing today? | ||
| Good. | ||
| I'm glad that I'm not a Donald Trump fan, but I'm glad he's doing this because in all the inner cities where I lived at, and I'm 70 years old, crime was always out of control and it's out of control now. | ||
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unidentified
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Now, most people inner city know who's selling drugs. | |
| It's their family members, they cousins, but they're not going to squeal on them. | ||
| So I say, put the cops in what Donald Trump's doing is good to me. | ||
| And that's all I have to say. | ||
| Any comment, Jillian? | ||
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unidentified
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No, that's the feeling of a lot of Americans. | |
| If you live or have lived in a major city and experienced crime, I grew up in New York City in the early 80s, and it was, you know, it was scary back then. | ||
| Obviously, it's not like that today. | ||
| But when you've been, you know, exposed to something like that, you know law enforcement is your go-to for when you don't feel safe. | ||
| So again, I value that caller's opinion because people are not feeling safe in their communities. | ||
| Let's go to a resident in Washington, D.C. Ashley, you're on the air. | ||
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unidentified
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Hey, how y'all doing? | |
| I just wanted to comment. | ||
| I've lived in D.C. all my life, and I've definitely lived through the crack epidemic and error. | ||
| And so crime to me is, I guess, on a different scale. | ||
| I will say that, you know, what Donald Trump is doing would be great if it had had, you know, if it was from a good place. | ||
| I think that the policing that he's doing is really to incite fear among the black and brown community within D.C. You say you want to stop crime. | ||
| You say you want to handle these issues, but at the same time, you're cutting funding. | ||
| You still haven't had Congress release the billion dollars that they're holding on to, which really would go into a lot of programming for the youth and for different facets. | ||
| So I think when you look at that, and then you also look at other states, right, like Missouri or Louisiana or Memphis, they have a way higher crime rates in D.C., but you're not focusing on any of those states. | ||
| You're only focusing on the blue states where we did not vote for you in high numbers. | ||
| And that is the issue that I have with this. | ||
| Nobody wants crime. | ||
| Everybody wants a safe city, right? | ||
| But we want to make sure that the intentions that you're doing it with are in the best interest of the residents of D.C. | ||
| And right now, it just doesn't feel that way. | ||
| Jillian. | ||
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unidentified
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I really appreciate that caller's mention of programming. | |
| And that's something that this administration does need to consider. | ||
| And it's kind of like a hit or miss because at the federal level, their hands are tied on what they can do at the state level, of course. | ||
| But we need the states to primarily focus on making sure that community-based programs, social service programs, juvenile-related programs to address some of those issues. | ||
| States really need to work together to come up with ideas other than just locking people up. | ||
| But at the same time, when there are violent felonies occurring, when there are murders happening, when there are rapes occurring, we do need law enforcement to go out there in full force and keep the residents safe. | ||
| And Jillian, how much does this deployment cost? | ||
| Do we know the total cost on maybe a per-month basis? | ||
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unidentified
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I wouldn't be able to say. | |
| I actually looked into it the other day and there were approximations for the LA when he sent the National Guard into LA. | ||
| But again, those figures were so inconsistent. | ||
| I saw $100 million, I saw $120 million, but no one has come up with this is the amount, at least to my knowledge. | ||
| It's very expensive. | ||
| There's no doubting that. | ||
| But what's happening instead, Metro PD, because they don't have enough comps, they're forced to make all these officers work overtime. | ||
| That's costing hundreds of millions of dollars as well. | ||
| So if you are now taking some of that burden temporarily off of MPD and instead using federal resources for the federal agents that are there patrolling, I mean, I wouldn't say it's a cost savings, but I'd say it's similar in nature that you're using less overtime for MPD, but more spending on federal agents. | ||
| Another Washington, D.C. resident, Terry, you're on the air. | ||
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unidentified
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Yes, good morning. | |
| Thank you for taking my call. | ||
| I have three things that I would like to say. | ||
| Number one, I do live in Southeast. | ||
| I feel like I've been under a police state for years. | ||
| There's always a police car. | ||
| There's a big presence, cars on the corner, et cetera. | ||
| So for people who maybe have not experienced this, welcome to my world. | ||
| Number two, where are the people being taken? | ||
| Do they have their constitutional rights intact? | ||
| And the third thing is, in terms of the money, I'm wondering if this is an opportunity in Trump's mind to get his hands on the retirement monies, because I've heard in different states when they're grabbing, there's an ulterior motive there. | ||
| And so is this about the fully funded pensions of the citizens of Washington, D.C.? | ||
| Will the money be affected at all? | ||
| I'll take my answer off the air. | ||
| So Terry, before you go, when you said that you felt like you lived in a police state in Southeasteast with a lot of police presence, does that make you feel safer? | ||
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unidentified
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It makes me feel safer. | |
| And I like the idea because the policemen are not beating people. | ||
| They are not bum rushing people. | ||
| They're not intent from what I've seen. | ||
| It's just the presence. | ||
| To me, it lets the people know that, well, there is, if you do something wrong, we're there. | ||
| But I'm a little dubious when it comes to what the others may do because these are young people and young people have energy and young people have undirected energy and young people have energy that is available for use, but they don't have jobs. | ||
| I mean, they're doing some things I do believe. | ||
| I walk right by them. | ||
| Nobody's bothering me. | ||
| And I'm not saying that that would not happen, you know, at different times of the day or night, but I have not been harmed by these same youths. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So I think that they're just doing useless things. | ||
| All right, let's get Jillian Snyder to respond. | ||
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unidentified
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So on her first point about having a lot of visible presence of officers, I mean, I wouldn't consider that a police state. | |
| That is a very standard tactic that most agencies will use because statistically, if you have uniformed presence, opportunistic crimes will not occur. | ||
| If you have an officer sitting in a patrol car or standing on a street corner in uniform, you are not going to see someone sell drugs right in front of them or steal someone's person, run down the street or commit a robbery because that presence is there, that capable guardian, if you will. | ||
| So most agencies, I know when I started with NYPD, for the first year, they literally stuck me on a street corner in East New York, in Brooklyn, just to be there because it was a very high crime area. | ||
| And the goal was that visible presence was a deterrent. | ||
| So that's on that point. | ||
| She also alluded to the juveniles. | ||
| I think that's who you were talking about with the high energy level. | ||
| What we do need, and this is not just DC specific, this is across the country. | ||
| We do need more services and more programs that give youths other options than defaulting to crime. | ||
| When I worked in the South Bronx, which is where I spent most of my career, we did have the fortune of getting a community rec center built. | ||
| And previous to that, we had a high rate of burglaries and kids breaking into cars and breaking into Bo Vegas and stealing stuff. | ||
| Once they opened this rec center, which had a lot of sports programming and just things for them to do other than be idle on the street, we did see a decrease in those juvenile related crimes. | ||
| Obviously, it didn't get rid of all of them, but it made a substantial difference. | ||
| So that's kind of where I'm going with that. | ||
| The third point I really can't speak to. | ||
| All right. | ||
| And this is Dustin in Idaho. | ||
| Good morning, Dustin. | ||
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unidentified
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Good morning. | |
| I just want to say that I fully support Trump with what he's doing. | ||
| Everybody's going to be safe. | ||
| And that's all I got to say. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| All right. | ||
| And this is Daniel in Springfield, Virginia. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
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unidentified
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Hey, good morning. | |
| Thank you for having me on. | ||
| My main point was the trust between people and police. | ||
| I think after 2020, after George Floyd, the trust with the police has just gone way down. | ||
| And I think they've been working on that ever since and trying to get recruiting up and everything. | ||
| And I think that areas are lacking a lot of police. | ||
| And I think crime is on the rampet. | ||
| And I think that Trump is taking advantage of that and using All these people's fears of crime to take control of the National Guard and these cities. | ||
| And he said DC is just the beginning. | ||
| And all these, I just don't want it to get to the point of him having ultimate authority over the police and just be able to have that trust with people again. | ||
| Especially, I just want to say one more thing with the 2028. | ||
| I just have questions for Jillian to see how much control he would actually have over the police in DC because he already tried a coup in 2021 and he could try the same thing with this military takeover. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Jillian. | ||
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unidentified
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You brought up two important things. | |
| So trust. | ||
| That is something huge. | ||
| Our street, we do a lot of work on police legitimacy and the institution and culture of policing and how community members feel about it. | ||
| So if you don't trust the institution of policing, you're less likely to, you know, call 911 when you see a crime, call 911 when you're the victim of a crime, or just respect the law entirely. | ||
| So I think it's really important to note that agencies since 2020 have been working really hard to do more things in collaboration with communities to try and rebuild that trust. | ||
| On the other thing we were discussing about the altitude. | ||
| I think Trump, I think the president is looking at this through the lens of public safety. | ||
| He ran on that platform. | ||
| That's something he's always been very vocal about. | ||
| And again, many callers today have expressed gratitude because they've said they don't feel safe and they think that this is a necessary thing. |