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Aug. 5, 2025 20:53-21:57 - CSPAN
01:03:46
Texas State Rep. James Talarico D Discusses Religion & Politics
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Government Under Siege 00:04:50
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Texas Democratic State Representative James Talarco, who along with several other Democratic legislators has fled the state, spoke about Texas Republicans' attempt to gerrymander more congressional seats.
This came as part of a virtual discussion on the role of religion in politics, which was hosted by the Center for American Progress.
This runs an hour.
My name is Sidney Bryant, and I'm a policy analyst for structural reform and governance at the Center for American Progress Action Fund.
Today's event is co-hosted by CAP Action and Interfaith Alliance.
I am so honored to welcome you here for a conversation with a guest who has very much been in the news these days, Texas State Representative James Tallarico.
Representative Tallarico is a rising leader in American politics who speaks with an authenticity and a moral clarity about the issues plaguing our nation and how we can move forward.
We initially invited Representative Tallarico here to speak about religious freedom, but this week he finds himself on the front lines of another fight.
He and his Democratic colleagues in the Texas state legislature have left the state to break quorum and fend off a dangerous redistricting grab by President Trump and Governor Abbott.
This quorum break by legislators is a bold act of resistance in the hopes of creating a stronger democracy that truly represents all Americans.
This Texas redistricting fight is part of a much larger picture.
On the surface, gerrymandering and attacks on religious freedom might seem like separate battles, but in reality they are inextricably linked.
Many of the saints with intensive gerrymandering are also those introducing Christian nationalist policies.
Both are efforts to consolidate power in the hands of the few at the expense of the many.
Right now, the nation is facing multiple attacks on its very foundation, including a rise in Christian nationalism.
This conflation of our identity as Americans with an exclusive form of religious identity not only harms people of other faiths and threatens secular governance, but evases the very faith it purports to uphold by wielding it like a weapon.
Right now, some actors are undermining religious freedom by going after the separation of church and state.
Public schools are centering curriculum while trying to add the 10 commandments to classrooms.
Trump's IRS has recently opened the door to partisan politics in Houses of Worship.
And just last week, the Office of Personal Management told federal employees that it's okay for them to proselytize in the workforce, that they can, quote, persuade others of the correctness of their own religious views, unquote.
This attempt to suppress and homogenize is incredibly un-American.
People of faith are actually well positioned to push back against these theocratic and authoritarian power grabs.
It might seem like a paradoxical ask.
If church and state should be separate, why are you asking for people of faith to engage with politics?
No one is saying that religion shouldn't impact your politics.
Most people's faith informs their values and therefore their politics.
The difference is religion can impact our beliefs as individuals, but should not be thrust upon others.
Moreover, the separation of church and state actually protects religious expression.
Once you open that door, it can go both ways.
And history has shown that government intrusion in religion can corrupt houses of worship.
The freedom to choose without undue burden and a diversity of perspectives are key to our multicultural secular democracy.
So as we forge ahead, we would do well to remember that no matter our background, we all have a shared interest in this democracy and must protect it from attacks on all fronts, both autocratic and theocratic.
Time to Fight Back 00:04:31
unidentified
As our guest speaker recently said, it is time to fight back.
With that in mind, I am so excited to introduce Representative Tallarico, who will be in conversation with Guthrie Graves-Fitzsimmons, who is a senior fellow at CAPACIN and vice president of programs and strategy at Interfaith Alliance.
If you have any questions, we ask you to please submit them through the Zoom Q ⁇ A function, and closed captioning is available through your Zoom settings.
Guthrie, over to you.
Thank you, Sydney, for those powerful opening remarks.
And thank you to everyone who is joining us online today for this powerful event.
Courage is contagious.
And I'm certainly feeling inspired by Representative Tallarico boldly standing up to this anti-democratic power grab.
And I hope everyone watching today is also feeling inspired.
Welcome, Representative Tallarico, and how are you holding up?
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
Well, thank you so much for having me, Guthrie.
And it's really an honor to be here with all of you.
I'm here in Illinois in a nondescript hotel conference room.
We're not sharing our exact location because of security concerns, but it's an honor to be here in the land of Lincoln.
And it's quite appropriate because Abraham Lincoln broke quorum as a state senator back in 1840 by jumping out of a window at the Illinois State Capitol.
Thankfully, I didn't have to jump out of any windows back in Texas, but we are participating in a long American tradition of speaking up, of standing up to bullies, of civil disobedience, of good trouble.
And it's our deep honor to do it regardless of what consequences we may face.
unidentified
Thank you as a fellow Texan.
I'm so proud of everything you and your colleagues are doing.
And I love that you referenced good trouble because I really wanted to start this conversation by grounding it in the words of the late Congressman and civil rights hero and ordained Baptist minister, John Lewis, who once said, your vote is precious, almost sacred.
And so for you, how has your faith played into this effort to break quorum and this larger effort of standing up to this anti-democratic power grab?
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
I love that quote from John Lewis.
He's obviously an inspiration to me and all of my colleagues that are here breaking quorum.
It reminds me of what Senator Raphael Warnock said, which is that a vote is like a prayer for a better world.
And that I think is absolutely true in Texas and across the country.
My granddad was a Baptist minister in South Texas.
And I remember when I was real little, he told me that we follow a barefoot rabbi who gave us two commandments, love God and love neighbor.
He said Christianity is a simple religion, not an easy religion, but a simple one, because of these two commands.
And he said that there is no love of God without love of neighbor.
The two are inextricably linked.
Every single person in this country bears the image of the sacred.
Every single person is holy.
Every single person counts.
This American democracy of ours was founded on that same self-evident idea that all people are created equal, which means that democracy is a lot more than just a constitution.
It's a covenant.
It's a relationship between neighbors.
It's a promise that we make to each other to share this country.
Even when we have disagreements, even when we are all so beautifully different, we promise to share this community together.
And Donald Trump and Greg Abbott and my Republican colleagues back in Texas are attempting to break that sacred promise with every suppressed vote, with every gerrymander district.
They are breaking that promise to share this country.
And so I feel it is my obligation as not just a legislator, but as a Christian, as a person of faith, to speak out against it.
Because 2,000 years ago, when the powerful few abused the many, that barefoot rabbi walked into the seat of power and flipped over the tables of injustice.
Flipping Tables in Illinois 00:15:35
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
And so I think for those of us who love democracy, for those of us who love our neighbors, it's time to start flipping tables.
And that's what my colleagues and I are doing here in Illinois.
unidentified
Amen to that.
And let's talk a little bit about the response we've seen in other states.
We've seen governors now pledge to engage in mid-district, mid-decade redistricting in other states if Texas does, which would endanger many House members of both political parties here in D.C. and really set back the work of building a representative electorate.
Some might say states like California are engaging in eye for an eye back and forth.
How would you respond to what's happening in other states in reaction to Texas?
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, this is a tricky strategic and moral question about how blue states should respond to this type of cheating.
First, I just, I know this is a wonky audience, but I just want to explain this mid-decade redistricting because this is really something at the state level.
And maybe the folks who work at the federal level or in D.C. aren't quite as familiar with this process.
So at the beginning of every decade, we adjust district boundaries after we get new census numbers because population changes and everyone deserves to have roughly the same representation.
That's normal and good and appropriate.
The problem comes when politicians draw their own lines because they tend to do it to protect themselves and their political party.
By the way, this has historically been a problem in both parties.
Republicans do it in red states and Democrats do it in some blue states.
And it's wrong in both instances.
And it has so many effects on our democracy.
It prevents this democracy from working for regular people.
It prevents us from making progress on housing, on healthcare, on education.
It is the rot at the core of our broken political system.
But what's happening in Texas right now is at a whole nother level because they are attempting to redraw those Texas maps in the middle of the decade because Donald Trump has requested that they give him five more seats in Congress.
It's a little reminiscent of when the president called the Georgia Secretary of State and asked him to give him 11,000 votes.
Thankfully, Georgia Republicans said, no, sir.
Texas Republicans said, how about Thursday?
And that's what our Democratic caucus has decided to take this bold step of breaking quorum to stop this power grab from going through.
And so this is cheating.
It's almost, you know, Guthrie, I know you're a fellow Texan and our Texans on the call will always understand a football analogy.
It's like two teams coming out of the locker room at halftime and the team that's ahead says they want to change the rules in the second half so they can win the game.
All of us would recognize that as blatant cheating.
And so, if the Republicans are going to cheat, we're not going to play.
It's why we have walked off the field.
It's why we've come to Illinois to stop this process from moving forward.
Now, your question was: how should blue states, particularly blue states with Democratic trifectus, how should they respond?
I am one who believes that we have to get the politics out of redistricting everywhere.
Politicians shouldn't be choosing their voters.
Voters should be choosing their politicians.
That said, I don't believe the Democratic Party can unilaterally disarm.
I remember when I was growing up that when there was a bully on the playground, I was taught that you don't lie down and play dead.
You look that bully in the eye, you don't blink, because bullies are a lot weaker than they seem.
And so, my hope is that by threatening retaliation, by maybe even in some cases, moving forward with retaliation, with blue state power grabs, that that can convince my Texas Republican colleagues and maybe even the president to walk back from the brink.
Not because they feel it's morally right, but because they're worried that they're going to end up losing more seats as a result of this mutually assured destruction.
That is my prayer.
I don't know if it'll work, but it's the only strategic answer I can come to given all the facts that we have.
I really don't want our principles as a party.
And by the way, I'm very proud to be a part of a political party that still has principles, that still has a positive vision for how this democracy could work for every single American.
And that means getting gerrymandering out of every state.
But we can't let that vision get in the way of current reality.
We have to stand up to these bullies, to these would-be tyrants.
I think that's the only thing that they're going to respect.
And I hope it convinces them to walk back from this dangerous power grab.
unidentified
Thank you for that prayer and for that football analogy.
I may have left Texas, but I still root on the Houston Texans regularly and figure out how to watch the Texans game.
So appreciate that.
And I also appreciate how you talked about capitulation and how people are giving in to how President Trump and his authoritarian tactics are playing out across the country.
We're seeing major institutions and academia and business, law firms, major media outlets all capitulate under the pressure.
And yet, I think, building on the example of Bishop Buddy here in D.C., who gave that amazing plea for mercy right into the president's face, I think religious communities are drawing from a deeper well in trying to stand up and hold on to their moral clarity.
And so, how do you think we can best inspire religious communities to withstand pressure on them to bend the knee and encourage them to maintain their prophetic independence?
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
Well, I'm such a fan of Bishop Buddy, and that sermon that she gave on Inauguration Day was an inspiration to me at a moment when I was feeling pretty defeated and pretty hopeless.
And that's exactly what faith leaders and faith communities can provide.
I mean, our religion, Guthrie, and most faith traditions were built for times like this.
And in a strange way, they thrive in environments like this, where there is hatred and bigotry and oppression and powerful people trying to hurt the people who have less power.
And in some ways, those faith traditions, including Christianity, they weaken and they atrophy in good times, in times of peace and prosperity.
And so it's important to recognize that, that this is our historical heritage.
I mean, the Christian tradition is what inspired abolitionists in the 19th century.
It's what inspired Dr. King and the leaders of the American Civil Rights Movement in the 20th century.
It gave them the courage and the peace and the fortitude to withstand fire hoses and bombings of their churches.
And we are facing less obstacles than they faced back then.
But we still have an obligation to speak truth to power and stand up to bullies on behalf of our communities.
And that's what is giving us strength here in Illinois.
Before we left Texas, my colleagues and I joined together in prayer, in interfaith prayer, because we don't just have Christians in our caucus.
We have Jews and Muslims.
We have atheists and agnostics, but we joined together hand in hand and said a prayer to the power of love and its ability to give us strength and peace and comfort as we embark on this journey on behalf of our constituents and the people of Texas.
It's what allows us to withstand the attacks.
You know, Ken Paxton, our corrupt attorney general in Texas, put out a tweet asking his followers to hunt us down.
Governor Abbott has said that he's going to remove us from office and he's going to charge us with felonies.
I don't know really what the legal basis is, but he's going to try.
And then the Speaker of the House issued arrest warrants to bring us back in handcuffs.
We are facing personal and financial, political, and legal consequences, which we knew when we walked into this.
It was not a decision we made lightly.
Many of my colleagues are leaving behind young children.
Some are leaving behind aging parents.
We're all leaving behind our day jobs, which is how we pay our bills because we only earn $600 a month as Texas state legislators.
And the only way that's all possible, the only way it's possible for anyone to do anything hard is if you are rooted in something much deeper.
And for me, that's faith.
And I think it's time that we all rediscover those roots if we're going to be ready for the battle ahead.
unidentified
Well, thank you for all you're doing.
And I know when you initially announced it on Sunday, you asked for people's prayer.
So I know many people on this call are praying for you and your colleagues.
I have been.
And also, I love how you mentioned Bishop Buddy inspiring you.
And now you are inspiring everyone on this call and everyone in this country.
And so it's up to everyone listening then to take that and be an inspiration to others and do whatever we all can do in our spheres of influence to make a difference.
So thank you again for everything you're doing in breaking the quorum.
I wanted to now sort of step back and look a little more broadly at religion and government and some of the things we wanted to talk to you about before we knew about this breaking quorum two days ago.
And I was thinking about how we are both, we were both born in 1989 and how this was sort of an apex of religious right dominance in our politics.
And so really in our lives, we have seen and been subjugated to religious right dominance of our public imagination of religion and politics.
And so in the midst of this, some people are, you know, when I was like, I'm going to go to seminary, people are like, whoa, and we're surprised.
What inspired you in the midst of so much religious right influence, especially in Texas, to go to seminary?
And how do you see your public service as part of this calling?
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, I'm glad we're part of the 1989 club with Taylor Swift.
Both of y'all look a lot younger than I do.
I blame the Texas legislature.
But yeah, you and I have seen how Christianity has been perverted in this country over the last 50 years of the religious right.
And it's gotten to the point where, you know, I have Gen Z members of my team who now think that Christianity is synonymous with being anti-gay, anti-science, anti-woman.
And that is not the tradition that I grew up in.
It's not the tradition I inherited.
And I'm so thankful that the words of Jesus still beam to us almost like a mess bottle, even though people in power are trying to use this religion to consolidate their own wealth and political power.
And so we have inherited this tradition that stands up for the least among us, that speaks truth to power, that brings people together from all backgrounds.
You know, so many of the heroes of Jesus' parables are not necessarily Christians or not necessarily even followers of Jesus.
I think about the parable of the Good Samaritan, which I'm sure people on this call have heard before.
We oftentimes now in 2025 think of a Good Samaritan as someone who helps someone on the side of the road.
But in Jesus' time, the Samaritans were a different religious group.
They were the sworn enemies of Jesus' followers.
And in Jesus' story, the Samaritan is the one who embodies divine love.
In essence, in Jesus' story, salvation comes from the heretic, right?
From the outsider, from the enemy.
And that is such an important reminder that our neighbor love has to transcend religious boundaries.
It has to be a lot bigger than sectarian religion because Jesus was a lot bigger.
God is a lot bigger than sectarian religion.
And that is the problem with this religious right, this Christian nationalism that is intent on hurting our neighbors, particularly our neighbors who are different from us or who have less power than we do.
And so I saw this happening up close at the Texas legislature.
I never thought I would really talk about religion so explicitly when I ran for office, right?
My faith was why I got into public service, first as a public school teacher on the west side of San Antonio and now as a state representative.
But I never thought I would explicitly talk about it.
But I've kind of been forced into that position because my Republican colleagues in Texas have been pushing these Christian nationalist bills.
And, you know, I felt that if I was going to talk about this, if I was going to talk about faith, especially how faith intersects with politics, I better know what I'm talking about.
And so that's when I made this decision to go to seminary.
It was partly to, you know, make sure I equip myself to talk about these things responsibly because religion, when put in the wrong hands, can do a lot of harm to a lot of people.
But it was also selfish in a way.
I was in my second term after all these bills had been filed, after a quorum break in 2021, the most extreme abortion ban in the country, permitless carry of guns in our state.
I was starting to lose faith in the impact I was making and maybe even faith in democracy.
This was months after January 6th.
And so going to seminary was a way to root myself in something deeper.
I told you earlier about those two commandments that Jesus gave to us as Christians.
And if politics is how I'm loving my neighbor, seminary is how I love God.
And as a seminary and a lawmaker, I'm figuring out how these two commands are, how they sustain each other, because loving my neighbor is really hard in a democracy.
And unless you're in touch with God, or for those non-religious people on the call, being in touch with the ground of your being, of ultimate reality, however you want to define that, that is necessary to do this difficult work of loving your neighbor, especially when your neighbors are hurting other people or trying to break the promises we make in a democracy.
And so it's really balanced me out, I think, and helped me move forward in the work.
unidentified
Well, shout out to Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary.
I told my husband, Andrew, who is a graduate of APTS, I would give a shout out to the seminary on the call.
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
Yes, please.
Yeah, it's a really special place.
And honestly, it's a place where it's a lot gentler than the Texas Capitol, right?
The Texas Capitol is a rough and tumble place, which I know and I appreciate.
But seminary is just, I don't know, it's a place that's different.
It's a palate cleanser for me.
Church And State Separation 00:15:15
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
And I think it's important to have your feet in both kind of spaces.
unidentified
Let's go back, though, sorry, to the Texas legislature.
And you mentioned the Christian nationalist legislation that you have had to fight.
And I wonder if you could just describe some of the bills that have been introduced and passed by the Texas legislature in your tenure and how you have fought back against those efforts.
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
Yeah.
And, you know, I define Christian nationalism as the worship of power, all kinds of power, economic, political, and social, in the name of Christ.
And it is a betrayal of Jesus and his teachings.
Theocracy, I think, is the most dangerous form of government when you elevate one religion over all the others, when you dominate your neighbors instead of loving them as yourself.
The only thing worse than a tyrant is a tyrant who thinks they're on a mission from God.
And I think the teachings of Jesus should lead us away from theocracy and toward a radical vision of democracy where power is truly shared among all people, including people of different faiths or no faith at all.
And so the way that looks in practice in a place like the Texas legislature, for instance, there's a bill that I have been outspoken against, a bill to force every teacher in the state to post the Ten Commandments in their classrooms in public schools.
Public schools that are funded, by the way, not just by Christians, but by Jews and Muslims and Buddhists and Hindus and Sikhs and atheists and agnostics.
We all pay for these public schools, but now only one tradition is going to be on the walls of every classroom.
And again, as a person of faith, to me, that means that we have a dead religion if we have to force people to put up a poster to prove the legitimacy of our religion.
That's not how I feel about my faith, but it does expose a moral poverty in the American church in 2025.
There was also a bill to replace school counselors, which in Texas, school counselors have to teach in a classroom for two years.
They then have to get a master's degree in counseling.
So these are highly qualified individuals, which is what you want, because if you're counseling kids through difficult personal situations, you want a highly trained professional.
This bill would have allowed schools to replace those counselors with untrained, unqualified, unsupervised religious chaplains.
Now, at Austin Seminary, I'm going to school with people who are studying to become chaplains.
They're getting a master's degree.
They're going to be a part of an accredited association that's going to serve in our armed forces, in our prisons, in our hospitals.
Chaplains do incredible life-saving work every day.
But Guther, you and I both know that you can also go online and become a chaplain in five minutes.
And this bill would have allowed those chaplains without any qualifications whatsoever to be interacting with our children at a very personal, intimate level.
I tried to offer amendments that would have put in some common sense guardrails, you know, a requirement of some kind of master's degree, a prohibition against proselytizing.
The Republican majority stripped all of those amendments.
And so you can kind of understand the true motive of that bill.
And then the last one, actually, I'll mention two more.
One is a bill that I led the fight against, a private school voucher scam that would have drained money from our already underfunded Texas public schools.
We rank 43rd in the nation in per-student education funding in Texas.
It would have drained dollars out of those schools to subsidize private Christian schools for the wealthy few because the people who already send their kids to expensive Christian private schools were going to be eligible for this program.
And if you look at states across the country that have tried these private school voucher scams, the vast majority of the money ends up going to wealthier parents who already have their kids in these private schools.
And so it's a transfer of wealth from the bottom to the top, which I can't imagine anything more unchristian than stealing from the poor to give to the rich.
And then the last one is maybe the most insidious.
It was a new state curriculum that would teach Christian Bible stories as historical fact, as the only truth to our youngest students.
And I mean kindergarten, first graders.
These are kids who aren't able to think for themselves yet.
They haven't formed their own worldviews.
And to push propaganda, to push indoctrination on those youngest students is deeply immoral and should trouble all of us.
And so I've spoken out against all four of those bills and others.
There was also a bill just a few months ago that would have allowed teachers to use their positions of authority and trust to encourage their students to pray.
And again, I believe in the power of prayer.
You mentioned how I asked people to pray for me and my colleagues.
And I think prayer changes the world.
I really do.
But that is not something that an authority figure in a public government position should be pushing onto students.
Students already have the right to private personal prayer in the school day.
And, you know, as long as there are pop quizzes, there's always going to be prayer in schools.
But having a teacher push that on students is, again, an abuse of power and a violation of that sacred separation of church and state.
unidentified
If you believe in the power of prayer like we do, the last thing you should want is the federal government or the state government taking over the power of prayer from individual free expression.
And I love how you talked about the impact on public schools as the product of K through 12 Houston Independent School District schools that I loved.
And also the fact that families have the right to choose how their kids should be instructed in matters of religion.
I remember hearing from my parents that they, you know, looked for a church of where they wanted to teach me.
And I had a lot of questions always.
And I loved being in a great church in Houston where I was free to develop and ask questions.
And my parents trusted the pastors to lead that.
And what the state of Texas is doing is taking away that right from families and parents to direct the religious instruction of their children.
And if that's not dangerous to everybody, no matter what your political views are, your religious views are, whatever religion, or you don't want anything to do with religion, wherever you are across the spectrum, that the government is taking over religious instruction should scare you deeply.
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
Absolutely.
And it's important to remember that throughout American history, the staunchest defenders of the separation of church and state were people of faith.
Oftentimes it was Protestant Christians and oftentimes it was Baptists.
You know, my granddad was a Baptist preacher.
I grew up Presbyterian, but I know that Baptists have been the biggest defenders historically of this sacred separation because they know that this boundary between church and state doesn't just protect the state and it doesn't just protect democracy, it protects the church.
Because when government employees, when politicians are teaching religion, that is usurping the role of the church.
It is degrading our communities of faith.
And it also prevents us from speaking truth to power, which is religion at its best, when we have a prophetic voice and calling out those who are in charge.
And if we were inexpressibly linked to that quo, we are cozy with people in power.
You know, that when Thomas Jefferson first used that phrase, the wall of separation between church and state, it was in a letter to the Danbury Baptists because he was trying to speak their language.
So again, we should recognize how communities of faith have been the ones who historically have defend the separation in our First Amendment.
And I think we need to get back to a place where we are once again protecting the sacred boundary.
unidentified
I love all the praise for Baptists.
I became a Baptist as an adult after being raised Methodist.
And a large part of choosing to be Baptist was that religious freedom tradition, the freedom of conscience, the idea that freedom should be freely chosen and not imposed by the government.
And so thank you for reminding us of that history.
And we both agree.
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
Shout out to Methodists.
unidentified
Shout out to Methodists.
We're going to shout out everybody on this call.
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
I always feel, I've always thought that maybe I should be a Methodist.
I feel like that's maybe where I actually belong, but love them, love them deeply.
unidentified
And so speaking of the religious diversity in our country, which is a product of our religious freedom tradition and not having an official religion, the worst thing for a religion would be to have an official religion that the government tells you what to do.
And so we have no official religion.
We were founded as a religious freedom country, and yet we are still a majority Christian country.
And so how do you talk to your fellow Christians who may be sympathetic to hearing the government's promoting the Ten Commandments, the government's promoting prayer?
I love prayer.
I love the Ten Commandments like people do rightfully.
And so how would you talk to them for people that are sympathetic to these Christian nationalist theocratic advances?
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
Well, you know, I've talked in this interview already about the importance to protect, you know, Jewish students, Muslim students, Sikh, Buddhist, atheist students.
And I think the teachings of Jesus always center the outcast, the outsider.
We are called to love them as ourselves and forcing our religion down their throats is not love.
But I also think it may be helpful to just think about the diversity within Christianity.
We've talked a little bit about early American history and our founders.
I think their concern was actually less about people of different faiths and was more concerned about the folks of different denominations.
We just talked about Baptists and Presbyterians and Methodists.
We also talk about Catholics.
You know, protecting that diversity within the Christian church is really important because I have some agnostic members of my staff at the Capitol.
And sometimes they ask me, like, what is the Christian position on X?
And I laugh because there is no Christian position on X most of the time.
We Christians disagree.
Whereas different answers that our different denominations come to.
And it's a beautiful thing, right?
If you go back and read the story of Pentecost, it's people from all different walks of life speaking different languages.
But when they're moved by the Spirit, they can understand each other.
They can communicate with each other.
So the diversity is important.
That unity within diversity is what our religion is all about.
Our democracy is about.
Out of many one.
And so these protections are not just for people of the faith, they're for Christians too.
Because when we talk about teaching religion in schools and you have a teacher, a public employee who's now teaching religion, well, when it comes to the Eucharist, the communion, what are they teaching?
Are they teaching the Presbyterian perspective, the Catholic perspective?
You know, when it comes to salvation and different doctrines, who are they speaking for?
Lutherans, Baptists?
So again, this diversity doesn't just apply to other faith traditions.
It applies to the Christian church itself.
And so that I think is an important flag for believers in this country who I think should be rightly suspicious of the government usurping the role of pastors and Sunday school teachers.
We have churches on every street corner in Texas, and many of them are sitting empty.
And so if you want the government teaching religion, you are undermining the role of the church.
We have places where people can deepen their faith.
I encourage people to find a local church to help rebuild it, especially if you're young.
This is a great opportunity to reclaim these institutions, remake them in our own image, and use them as wells of strength and peace and power in all of our neighborhoods.
But when the government is taking that role, you are undermining those local churches.
So those are some thoughts I would offer to my fellow Christians.
unidentified
And a reminder to our audience that we are going to be taking audience questions in just a few minutes.
So please submit those questions.
We will get to as many of them as we have time.
Another question I have is: I was thinking about how we first started talking about five years ago back and forth.
And I've just been amazed by the traction you're gaining on social media, on Joe Rogan saying you should be president, on just a growing excitement about this vision of religion and politics that you have so clearly articulated.
And I wonder, what does that tell you about the country's hunger for a better conversation about the intersection of religion and government?
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
The hunger is deep.
It's especially deep among our fellow millennials and Gen Z. You know, I got on TikTok a couple of years ago because my Gen Z communications director told me I needed to.
And I reluctantly agreed.
You know, as a millennial, I was like, I have Facebook and Instagram.
Why do I need TikTok?
And I said, I'll get on there, but I'm not dancing.
That was my red line, and he respected that.
And we joined that platform.
It has become our largest platform just in a couple of years.
And I am constantly flooded with DMs and comments of people who are like, if I had heard this vision of faith, of Christianity when I was younger, I might still be in the church.
I've had really personal messages from people who say, you know, I long for a relationship with God, a relationship with the sacred, but I can't find a church where I feel welcomed, where I feel comfortable.
And so there is a, I know Pew has done these annual surveys about religious identity and affiliation.
And, you know, there's, we've been talking a lot about the rise of the nuns.
And I don't mean Catholic nuns, although we love the Catholic nuns, but I mean people who have no religious tradition, none at all.
And that has been rising among millennials and Gen Z.
But we shouldn't mistake that as rejecting religion entirely because those same millennials and Gen Zers, in that same survey, they identify as spiritual.
And in some ways, they are asking deeper questions than the older generations, maybe because of the turmoil that we've been through.
Guthrie, I think you and I were in middle school when 9-11 happened.
We were in college when the Great Recession happened.
Searching for Authentic Faith 00:03:20
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
And we were in our late 20s when Donald Trump was elected.
And then in our 30s when COVID came.
And so millennials and Gen Z have been there a lot.
And it has pushed us, I think, to think about the world in different ways and to search for meaning in new places outside of work, outside of politics, even outside of our personal relationships.
And so we long for real authentic faith communities because you can be spiritual and that's really important.
And spirituality is a huge part of my faith practice.
It's really important not to fall into this trap where you only have private spirituality.
There is a private dimension, absolutely.
Any of our Buddhist friends could tell us about private meditation and how important it is to know your own mind and your own heart.
But it's also really important to have a community where you are wrestling with these questions together when you're trying to figure out what it means to a human being in 2025 and taking inspiration from human beings who lived thousands of years earlier who struggled with the exact same questions.
These traditions are a gift, such an invaluable gift that we've been given.
And to throw them out because some politicians or some televangelists are twisting this tradition, it's a huge mistake.
And there is a baby in that bathwater that we are throwing out.
And I do believe some of the rising rates of anxiety and depression among young people is because many of them are growing up in an incoherent universe because they don't have a faith tradition.
They don't have a community where they can ask these questions that I know they're asking themselves late at night.
And so that's what's at stake here is preserving these traditions and these scriptures and these communities so it can actually work for people again.
We need that now more than we've ever needed it before.
unidentified
Today's event is co-hosted by the Center for American Progress Action Funds Faith Initiative, which has been around for two decades, and Interfaith Alliance, which has been around for three decades, both working for a better vision of religion, government, public policy, and showing the diversity of religious expression while protecting the separation of church and state.
What advice do you have as a legislator for the broader progressive movement about the importance of religion and having these conversations?
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
I think we have to remember our history as progressives, as people who love democracy.
The greatest social movements in recent American history have been deeply rooted in faith traditions.
I'm thinking about the American Civil Rights Movement, the farm workers movement, the labor movement.
And that faith was essential to their success because they had to be anchored to something a lot deeper than the news of the day.
Because if they're only anchored to the news of the day, I'm sure they would have given up pretty early because it wasn't good news most of the time.
But they recognized that their sunset was someone else's dawn, that this was a relay race, and that they were connected to other people in a profound way that transcends partisan, cultural, religious divides.
Next Question Comes 00:15:30
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
And I think we've got to remember those roots if we're going to be successful like they were in the 21st century.
I really worry about a politics that is unmoored from some kind of faith and some kind of ethical framework.
And it's really easy to get lost.
It's really easy to justify the means based on the ends.
And religion is the guardrail, the bulwark from losing your own humanity as you may be fighting for a good cause.
So I think my advice would be look at our history and try to rediscover those roots.
unidentified
Thank you.
We're going to turn now to questions from the audience.
And the first question comes from the Associated Press.
You mentioned earlier that state lawmakers only make $600 a month.
How are you paying for the living expenses in Illinois in addition to the daily fines for not showing up?
What are your thoughts on the potential bribery charges that Governor Abbott and other Republicans have floated?
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
Well, I can send the Associated Press my Wells Fargo account if they want to know about my finances.
They'll maybe be surprised by the lack of money in there.
But yeah, I am prepared to pay these fines myself.
It's not going to be easy for me to do that, but I know that there are consequences for breaking quorum.
And I feel so strongly about preventing this power grab and protecting my constituents and their ability to elect the candidates of their choice that I am willing to pay those fines myself.
But there are other expenses when it comes to breaking quorum.
I mean, I just want everyone to appreciate the logistical feat of trying to get 57 legislators out of the state of Texas undetected, go to another state, pay for travel, food, lodging.
That is very expensive.
And folks can donate to help us fund this quorum break.
And we've already been inundated with donations from across the state of Texas, from across the country, just regular people donating $5, $10, $15.
And that's appropriate because this fight is for the people and it should be funded by the people.
We don't have billionaires who are funding this operation.
You know, the governor of Illinois is a billionaire himself.
And we told him that we didn't want him to fund this trip.
We're going to fund it with people.
And so if you feel comfortable, you can donate and support this effort.
The Democratic caucus has a place you don't share here, I'm sure, on your social media accounts or online.
unidentified
Thank you.
And what brings to mind for me is the question of sacrifice.
And that's certainly a theme in a lot of religious traditions, a sacrifice for the greater good.
And so thank you for the sacrifices that you're taking on in breaking this quorum.
We know it's for all of the people who would be disenfranchised by this power grab.
And really, it's a stand for democracy right now, which will inspire people in all sectors of society, no matter if they're in office or wherever they are, they will be inspired to do something in their local community to make a difference.
And government, go ahead.
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
Can I just add that we are not just fighting for Democrats.
We're fighting for independents and Republicans too.
We want free and fair elections in every single community.
This is not about the Democratic Party.
It's about the Democratic process.
And I should also mention the what of this power grab is getting Trump those five seats he wants because he's worried about facing accountability from a new Congress if the American people elect a new Congress in 2026.
So he's trying to prevent the American people from being able to do that.
But the how, how they're doing this, is they are diluting the voting power of communities of color, of black and brown Texans, of growing populations in our state.
They are breaking apart minority, majority districts.
They are diluting their voice in the process.
So this map that they put out is deeply racist.
And I think it's really important that we say that and we recognize how they are going about this power grab.
unidentified
The next question is from Religion News Service.
What acts of faith are you and your colleagues involved in now that you are away from Texas?
And are those interfaith acts of faith?
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
Absolutely.
I mentioned earlier that we, right before we got on the plane to leave Texas, we all gathered in a circle and said a prayer.
I guess I said a prayer as the seminarian.
I got appointed to say the prayer.
And I made sure it was an interfaith prayer because we do have members of many faith traditions and some that are atheists and agnostics, and they were part of that circle too, and they are part of this journey with us.
But we wanted to be rooted in something larger, something longer than this current fight.
And I know that I am relying on prayer every single day that I'm up here.
Started my morning in prayer.
I'll end my day in prayer.
It's the only way, at least for me, that I can get through days like this given what's happening.
And, you know, I know that we've already talked about all of us going to a church service here in Illinois on Sunday.
I think we're still trying to figure out where that will be and what that will look like.
But 57 politicians showing up is difficult for any church to handle.
So we don't want to be a nuisance, but we do want to make sure that we are engaged in the spiritual aspect of the struggle because it's not just a political struggle.
It is a spiritual struggle.
And we need to shield ourselves and be ready for the fight ahead.
unidentified
Sure, the next question comes from a member of the audience.
I'm a child of the west side of San Antonio and love my state deeply.
How can folks outside of the state support the grassroots work advocating for public schools and the rise of forced religion on students?
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
Well, shout out to the west side.
The west side of San Antonio is one of my favorite places in the world.
And if you haven't visited, you should.
And I would urge anyone who wants to get involved in this fight to be supporting organizations like this one, supporting interfaith organizations.
You know, in Texas, Texas Impact is the premier interfaith coalition fighting on the front lines against these perversions of our faith and these subversions of our democracy.
So whether it's with your volunteer hours or with your financial resources, please figure out what organizations are doing this work and support them.
unidentified
Sure.
The next question is, the New York Times reports that Senator John Cornyn has asked the FBI director Kash Patel to deploy the FBI to hunt down Texas Democratic lawmakers who have fled the state to deny quorum.
What is your response to this call from Senator Cornyn to use federal law enforcement to advance his own political preferences?
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
Well, I think Senator Cornyn is trying to be relevant because he's about to lose a primary to Ken Paxton, who is the most corrupt politician in our state and maybe in our country.
But it is very consistent because with these rigged maps, they are trying to rob the people of Texas and the American people from being able to elect the representatives of their choice to elect a Congress of their choice.
And now Greg Abbott and Senator Cornyn are threatening to arrest and remove democratically elected representatives from their office.
And so to me, that is just a literal version of what they're doing with this map.
It is a page out of an authoritarian playbook that we must all reject, whether you're a Democrat, an Independent, or Republican.
It is fundamentally un-American and we can't stand for it.
unidentified
Sure, the next question comes from Christian Science Monitor.
Churches have long been divided along ideological or political lines.
So do you feel that interfaith spaces still offer an opportunity for bipartisan conversation and efforts?
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
Absolutely.
My faith has been deepened by my interactions with people from other faith traditions.
I think it's necessary.
It's almost like knowing a second language or a third language.
You don't truly understand your language until you learn another one.
And you don't truly understand your faith tradition until you're exposed to another one.
And I, as a Christian, I see Christ in every loving tradition.
I see Christ in Hinduism and in Islam and in Judaism and in Buddhism and in ethical humanism.
I see Christ everywhere.
And I think that is the definition of being a Christian.
And so these interfaith conversations are necessary, especially in a globalized world, in a multicultural democracy.
We have to be able to learn and listen to each other.
And I'm always proud to be engaged in those conversations.
unidentified
Thank you.
And I'll add that I can speak for the Center for American Progress Action Fund and Interfaith Alliance to say we will be hosting more of these interfaith conversations.
So hope you will tune back in.
Probably not as timely as this one, but just as important to have ongoing conversations on these topics.
So hope you will tune back in.
The next question comes from Stern magazine.
At some point, you have to go back and confront the vote brought up by your Republican colleagues.
And it's clear that you don't have the numbers to stop the vote and to stop them from adopting an aggressively redrawn congressional map.
So what is the long-term strategy here?
Where do you and your Democratic colleagues go from here?
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
It's a great question.
And I think it's always tempting to be cynical about this stuff.
Sometimes cynicism is used as a signal of intelligence, right?
That like, I'm not hopeful about this.
I know this is not going to work.
They don't have the numbers.
They got to go back.
This isn't going to work.
But inside every cynic is a wounded idealist.
And so I want to speak to that wounded idealist in that reporter who asked that question.
There is a lot of opportunity to score victories for our people back home.
I'll use the 2021 quorum break when we walked out to protest the voter suppression bill that Republicans were pushing.
They were trying to make it harder to vote in the state of Texas.
And Texas is one of the hardest places to vote in the whole country.
So many obstacles, so much paperwork, so much needless bureaucracy to prevent people from accessing their God-given rights at the ballot box.
And by breaking quorum in 2021, we shined a national spotlight, an international spotlight on that voter suppression bill.
And it pressured my Republican colleagues back in Texas to take out the worst parts of that bill, a ban on souls to the polls, which is when black churches get their members together to go make their voices heard at the ballot box.
It pressured them to take out a provision that would have allowed Republican politicians to overturn election results they didn't like.
And so that bill became less harmful.
Yes, it did pass at the end of the day.
We are in the minority in Texas.
But as the minority, we have certain tools, certain constitutional tools, by the way.
A quorum break is in our Texas Constitution.
It is a tool that we have to check the majority.
And by doing that, we made that bill less harmful.
We protected our constituents.
And so some folks may say that was a failure, but to me, it was a huge success to be able to make that bill less dangerous for my constituents.
I'm hopeful something like that will happen here.
We already talked about how we, by breaking quorum, are pressuring blue states to respond and to retaliate.
And then that could either wipe out the gains made in Texas or hopefully prevent Republicans from moving forward with this power grab.
And I should just say we're here in a conversation about religion.
So many of our traditions, including Christianity, are trying to tell us how we can win, even though we may lose in the short run, right?
Good Friday, when Jesus was crucified by the Roman Empire, that was a loss, right?
In every way.
He lost his friends.
He lost his reputation.
He lost his ministry.
He lost his life.
But then on Easter Sunday, we remember that something can rise out of that loss.
Something can rise out of those ashes.
And that is what every major movement throughout American history has remembered.
And we're trying to remember that in our fight here in Illinois.
unidentified
The next question is from Notice.
Have you, you say it's wrong in both instances to redistrict by party lines, but also that what's happening in Texas is at a whole nother level.
Does that mean that in this particular case, Democratic states need to respond?
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
I do think Democratic states need to respond, but I think the hope is that we won't have power grabs in any state.
We don't want gerrymandering in any state.
Yes, this is particularly brazen, particularly egregious, particularly discriminatory.
And it is at the request of the most powerful man in the country because he doesn't want to face consequences.
So all of those factors make this very different.
But gerrymandering itself is a huge problem in our democracy.
It's why this democracy doesn't work for regular people and working people in a state like Texas.
And so it must be addressed.
It must be ended everywhere, red states and blue states alike.
And I've filed a bill to do that in Texas.
It hasn't gotten a hearing, but I'm going to keep fighting long after this quorum break to end gerrymandering and take the politics out of redistricting once and for all.
unidentified
The next question comes from a member of our audience.
What advice do you have to us who will call out the evils of an alligator Alcatraz, but don't want to get into Republican versus Democrat, but see this as good versus evil?
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
I think that's absolutely right.
It's important to remember that religion should never be partisan, right?
These parties, they change over time.
The Democratic Party is very different from what it once was.
The Republican Party, I mentioned Abraham Lincoln in the beginning of this call.
The Republican Party is very different than what it once was.
So putting your faith in a party, putting your trust in a political party is foolish because it will always disappoint you.
It will always let you down.
It is a human conception, a human product.
And you should never be fitting your religion into small boxes, right?
Those small boxes should be fitted into the bigger box, which is faith.
And so religion should never be partisan.
My pastor growing up at St. Andrew's Presbyterian Church right outside of Austin, you know, he would criticize President Bush for invading Iraq, but then he'd also criticize President Obama for drone strikes and mass deportations.
So he showed me at a very early age that Christianity speaks truth to all power, blue power and red power alike.
That said, religion is by definition political, because as I also said in the beginning of the conversation, politics is really just another word for how you treat your neighbor.
So it's important to remember the distinction between partisanship, which religion should never be, and politics, or political, which is what religion always should be.
Because we Christians throughout history have sometimes said that we want to stay neutral or non-political.
The Conscience of the State 00:03:44
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
But when you do that, you are taking the side of the powerful.
You are protecting the status quo.
There is no such thing as non-political.
And so it's important to understand that key distinction.
unidentified
I'll shout out another Baptist, the late Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., who talked about the church not being the master or the servant of the state, but the conscience of the state.
And someone, the last few weeks, we've been talking a lot about political endorsements from the pulpit in the Trump administration's misguided attempt to undermine the tax code passed by Congress that prohibits tax-exempt 501c3 nonprofit organizations from endorsing political candidates.
And just remember that Dr. King, this great embodiment of a politically active, socially conscious movement leader, refused to do partisan political endorsements.
So thank you for showing the distinction there between partisan and political.
I think this will be our last question.
And thank you to everybody that has asked questions.
I'm sorry we could not get to them all, but here's this last one.
I really appreciate Representative Tallarico speaking out against Christian nationalism, but he is just a state representative for now.
How do you get more Christian representatives and senators in the United States Congress to publicly and forcefully proclaim that Christian nationalism is a threat to democracy and Christianity?
And I'll just, you referenced Reverend Warnock earlier, who has done this amazingly well.
But how do you inspire more people who are Christian and serving in government to speak out like you are?
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
Well, Guthrie, at the beginning of the call, you said that courage is contagious.
And I think one person standing up, one person speaking out, or 57 in the case of my colleagues and I, I think it does have a ripple effect.
I think it inspires action.
And we need that now more than ever in this country because authoritarianism only succeeds when people stay quiet, when they stay submissive, when they stay in line.
And we've seen some of our biggest institutions, some of our media institutions, fall in line.
And it is so un-American, it is so dangerous that we're going to have to rely on the people to show these institutions what courage looks like.
That's what my colleagues and I are trying to do with this quorum break and stopping this power grab.
It's also what I try to do by speaking out against Christian nationalism.
And now I turn that over to all of you, everyone who is on this call, whether you are an elected official, a staff member, an activist, a journalist, you have a responsibility.
And I ask you to make sure you are in touch with that moral responsibility you have, especially in these dark times in our country.
Guthrie, before I get off, I did just want to thank you.
I know you hate this, but your book, Just Faith, is something I read before I ever got into politics.
And it's what inspired me to be on this journey.
And so I just wanted to thank you.
It's also very comforting to be with a fellow Texan, even if it's virtually.
I'm far away from home right now, and it means a lot to be in conversation with you.
unidentified
Thank you so much.
We are praying for you and your colleagues.
We are deeply inspired by the stand you're taking and believe in your long-term mission of ending partisan gerrymandering in Texas and in every state in our democracy.
Thank you to everyone watching today.
Live From Washington 00:02:27
unidentified
We hope you will stay connected to the Center for American Progress Action Fund at AmericanProgressAction.org and InterfaithAlliance at interfaithalliance.org.
Thank you.
Thank you for your time.
Stay safe.
And we will be looking forward to hearing from you more in the future.
Thank you.
james talarico ▲ ● ▼
Thank you.
unidentified
C-SPAN's Washington Journal, our live forum, inviting you to discuss the latest issues in government, politics, and public policy from Washington to across the country.
Coming up Wednesday morning, League of Conservation Voters President Pete Maismith on the Trump administration's EPA rollbacks, including the recent repeal of a landmark scientific finding and legal basis for regulating greenhouse gases.
Then, Brigham McCown of the Hudson Institute discusses the Trump administration's energy agenda and recent rollbacks of federal climate efforts.
We'll also talk about the Voting Rights Act and the impact it's had since being signed into law 60 years ago with Case Western Reserve University School of Law professor Atiba Ellis and Spectrum news reporter Reena Diamante on the latest on the fight over efforts to change Texas's congressional map.
C-SPAN's Washington Journal.
Join in the conversation live at 7 Eastern Wednesday morning on C-SPAN, C-SPAN Now, our free mobile video app, or online at c-SPAN.org.
Wednesday on the C-SPAN Networks.
Live at 10:15 a.m. Eastern, Education Secretary Linda McMahon will join student activists and others at the 47th Annual National Conservative Student Conference on C-SPAN.
At 3:30, a discussion on advancing economic prosperity with former House Speaker Paul Ryan and the former chair of the Council of Economic Advisors, Jason Furman.
And at 6 p.m., South Carolina Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace will speak to constituents at a town hall in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.
She's announced she'll be running to be governor of the state in 2026.
Over on C-SPAN 2, live at 3 p.m.
Eastern, the Senate Redistricting Committee in Texas meets for the first time since Republican members' new map was released last week, as Texas House Democrats continue to delay voting.
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