CSPAN - Texas House Hearing on Congressional Redistricting

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July 29, 2025 04:55-06:59 - CSPAN

02:03:56

Texas House Hearing on Congressional Redistricting

Participants

Appearances

chaplain rich stoglin

02:50

cody vasut

02:13

julie johnson

rep/d 02:31

sylvia garcia

rep/d 00:43

Clips

donald j trump

admin 00:02

patty murray

sen/d 00:04

rachel maddow

msnow 00:07

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Speaker	Time	Text
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		C-SPAN, Democracy Unfiltered.
		The Texas House of Representatives held a hearing to get public input on the legislature's attempt to redraw its federal congressional map.
		In this portion, Representatives Sylvia Garcia, Julie Johnson, and Mark Veace spoke, among others.
		This is over two hours.
		Okay.
		Quorum President.
		Yes.
		Quorum is president.
		The chair will recognize on the dais with us as well.
		And forgive me, members, so I'll make sure I get everybody.
		Representative Collier, Representative always Garcia Hernandez.
		Garcia Hernandez.
		Representative Plasa.
		Representative Rose.
		Raise your hand.
		All right.
		Representative Garcia.
		Representative Mesa.
		And Representative Bojani.
		All right.
		Did I miss anybody that's up here on the dice?
		And in the audience, we have Representative Bowers.
		So, okay.
		I've been told I need to eat the microphone, so let me adjust that briefly momentarily.
		Before we begin here, and I go through the opening remarks, the chair is, of course, pleased to welcome our guests attending today's hearing.
		I want to remind the audience that the House rules prohibit signs, placards, and verbal expressions of support or disapproval during the hearing.
		So if you have a sign, if you would lower it down, I'm not going to ask you to remove it from the room, but please do not raise it under the House rules.
		So if you'll please lower your signs.
		Okay.
		Now, the audience will come to order.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		I do want to reiterate this.
unidentified		This committee is going to be governed by the House rules and must be governed by the House rules.
		We don't have power to suspend them.
		So everyone in here is a guest in that sense.
		I do not want to ask anyone to leave.
		So please lower your signs.
		The chair, thank you.
		Please lower your signs, sir.
		We follow the rules.
		We're going to follow the rules.
		All right.
		Come to order.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Come to order.
unidentified		All right.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Come to order.
unidentified		All right.
		Sir, if you don't remove the sign, I'm going to have to ask you to leave.
		I do not want to do that.
		But we have the rules that are going to be followed as far as I am concerned at all times.
		All right.
		Now, I want us to get through these opening remarks swiftly so that we can get to your testimony here today.
		That's why we're here.
		I understand that there may be some outside, and so if you're outside, I want to remind you that you can watch today's hearing online at capital C-A-P-I-T-O-L.texas.gov.
		There's an audio and video stream online.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		If you'll be watching that and we call your name, we'll give you time to make sure you can make your way into the room.
unidentified		When we have people come up here in a little while, when you're done testifying, if you would be so kind as to leave the room so that somebody outside can come and have that seat.
		We want to make sure that we're giving everybody the opportunity to come in here that wants to be here.
		So the purpose of today's hearing, of course, is to have a public hearing on proposed revisions of congressional redistricting.
		Before we take that up or discuss a plan amongst ourselves, we want to hear from the public about what revisions should occur, if any.
		That's the purpose of today's hearing.
		As set out in the notice, we will take public testimony regarding a revised congressional redistricting plan pursuant to the governor's July 9th, 2025 proclamation calling a special session of the 89th legislature.
		This hearing will focus on those counties of the state lying wholly or partly within congressional districts 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 12, 13, 19, 24, 25, 26, 30, 32, and 33 for the 119th Congress.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		But the committee will hear testimony about any region of the state.
unidentified		So if you're here and you want to testify about any region of the state, you're more than welcome to.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Today's hearing will feature in-person public testimony.
unidentified		For everyone in the audience, thank you for being here today.
		In order to testify, you must register.
		There's a registration table right outside those doors at the back, and fill out one of those green forms and sign it and turn it in.
		We'd be happy to have you.
		If you have any questions or encounter any difficulties, please confer with our committee staff.
		I know we have two right outside there that'd be happy to answer any questions that you have.
		We're going to be closing registration for in-person testimony today at 6:30 p.m.
		I'll try to give about a 15-minute reminder of that well in advance so that you know.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		For everyone wishing to testify, as set out in the notice, testimony will be limited to two minutes per witness.
unidentified		We'll have a timer up here at the dais, and there is a timer, I believe, right there.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		And so the witnesses are going to come up and testify at either one of these podiums when you're called.
unidentified		You'll just be paying attention to that right there.
		You'll get a warning, I believe, at 15 seconds with a yellow light, and then we'll do red, and then we'll ask you to complete your testimony.
		Of course, you may receive some questions from the members on the dais.
		That's not a general invitation to testify open-ended, right?
		But they may have specific questions for you, and you're welcome to answer those if you so wish.
		The reason that we have this two-minute timer is we want to be fair to everybody, and we don't want to make sure that we hear from as many people as possible today.
		So, in order to ensure a balance of public testimony across three public hearings, we've already had one in Austin and one in Houston.
		Public testimony today is going to be limited to five hours.
		Now, we have a rough time that we're trying to get out of here around 10:30 or 11 because they need to prepare this room in the morning for, I believe, another event.
		But we're going to stay here until we finish that five hours of testimony.
		But I want to give you that up front.
		So, we're going to try to move expeditiously here.
		This time, though, today at this hearing is not the only time that you have to make your voice heard.
		There are several other ways that you can provide feedback to the committee.
		I want to make sure that you know all of them and that you're free to exercise any or all of them at any time.
		First, if you have more to say than time allows, or if we unfortunately don't reach you today, as the hearing notice mentioned, we welcome you to submit a written copy of your testimony to the committee.
		This written testimony will be provided to all the members of this committee, so they're all going to hear it if you run out of time.
		So, if you'll just bring that up, we'll have the time at the end.
		I'll announce, and you can turn that into committee staff.
		We'd love to receive it.
		Second, if you have any handouts with you, as the notice mentions, please bring the handouts up front before your testimony, and they'll be passed out to the members of the committee.
		We ask for 22 copies, one for the record and 21 for the members of the committee.
		Third, anyone is welcome to submit an electronic comment without testifying.
		You can do that online.
		There's an electronic portal linked in today's hearing notice.
		It can be found at comments.cap that house.texas.gov.
		That's comments.house.texas.gov.
		Information can be uploaded to the portal for today's hearing through the end of today's hearing.
		You can also upload information to the portal for any future hearings that are announced, and you'll see those in notices.
		The Texas Legislative Council also hosts a website for redistricting at redistricting.capital.texas.gov.
		That's capital with an O at the end, by the way.
		On that website, you can find information about submitting proposed maps for consideration.
		If you click, I believe 2020s in the top and go down to public participation.
		There will be some information there.
		If you have a map that you want us to consider, be happy to look at that and you can upload that there.
		Finally, every member of the public is always welcome to email, contact, or call any member of the legislature at any time, and we welcome you to do so.
		In fact, not only I don't have this in these notes here, but there is another committee in the Senate taking up this issue, and they're having virtual testimony.
		You can register, I believe, for an upcoming hearing they're going to have tomorrow, up to 12 hours before that hearing.
		So at the Senate website, you can find details there.
		So a lot of opportunities to get your feedback here.
		Finally, let's talk about logistics.
		Normally, I would, and I think I will call up people in groups of four, but the way we're going to do this is if the first two, first come, first third, will take these two podiums, and the next two that I call will be right behind them.
		We'll take your testimony that way.
		So it'll be from these two podiums.
		Normally, we would have a little table with four chairs, but we couldn't fit it down there and I wouldn't be able to see.
		So we're going to have these two podiums here for you to testify.
		And just make sure that you speak directly into that microphone.
		If your name is called, just be ready.
		If you happen to be outside and you're listening in, you hear your name called, feel free to make your way into the room.
		Just let the doorkeepers know that you've been called to testify and they'll let you in and let you come down front.
		Finally, since we have no bill before us and we will have no bill before us at this hearing, the last of our three public hearings before any bill, all testimony today will be neutral or on.
		You might have seen that on the form.
		I understand people have different views on one way or the other on this.
		And you're free to testify whatever you think.
		Feel free to say whatever you'd like to say.
		It's just required to be on for the minutes.
		So I wanted to make sure that you knew that.
		Just because the form says neutral and I say that you're neutral doesn't mean you have to be neutral.
		Okay.
		With that, that's the opening comments that I had for our logistics for today's hearing.
		Before we get started, I know some members had some comments they'd like to make.
		I'd like to come to them one at a time.
		Dean Thompson, for what purpose?
		I'd just like to ask the question.
	Gentlemen, use for questions.
	Since the people are going to be testing neutral, that means we don't have a map, right?
	That is correct.
	And we have not seen a map?
	That is correct.
	And we don't know what the map looks like.
	That's correct.
	The only map of reference for the purpose of this hearing is the current one.
	The current map.
	And as the chair has previously indicated, before any action is taken on any map, if at all, by this committee, there will be another public hearing.
	So thank you, Dean.
	Vice Chair Rosenthal, for what purpose?
	I'd like to make a statement.
	Chair recognizes Vice Chair Rosenthal for.
	Hold on.
	Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
	Can you all hear me okay?
	All right, good.
	My name is John Rosenthal, like you can see from the little sign, and I represent House District 135 in Northwest Houston.
	And I have the either fortunate or unfortunate task of being named the vice chair of this committee.
	I'm a mechanical engineer by trade, 30 years in industry, seeking practical solutions to real-world problems.
	Listen, this is anything but practical to me.
	While it's an incredible responsibility for me to serve as this vice chair position, I've done some big stuff in oilfield work, but I've never been asked to take a responsibility like this, and I feel the gravity of it.
	And I'm glad that you are here today to join us in this fight because it will be a fight.
	I'm here to fight.
	My colleagues are here to fight.
	We saw the letter.
	We saw the letter that the Department of Justice sent to the governor.
	The districts that were specifically mentioned in that letter were District 9, 18, 29, and 33 right here.
	Curious to me that these are only communities of color being targeted.
	Mid-decade redistricting is unusual.
	It's unnecessary.
	We are required to redraw the district boundaries every 10 years following the census, but that's not what this is, y'all.
	This process isn't, we redraw for the census to make things fair because as people move around, we want to make sure you're properly represented, that everyone, you know, all these districts have the same number, and everyone has a fair chance to elect someone to choose who serves you, right?
	To choose your elected employees.
	This right here is a racist attack on congressional districts of color.
	It's about taking power away from black and brown communities.
	It's about erasing your voices.
	This effort to change the districts, again, has nothing to do with representing people better.
	It's the opposite of that.
	It's a power grab at the expense of black and brown communities.
	So Texas is growing.
	Most of the new people that have come into the state in the last 10 years are communities of color.
	And I went through all the numbers.
	Engineer, I do a lot of math.
	Between 2010 and 2020, our population grew by 3,999,994 people.
	Let's call it 4 million, okay?
	Of that growth, 187,252 were white, 557,000 majority white.
	I live in one of them.
	It's crazy, y'all.
	And now they're going to go after more communities of color.
	So just know we're here with you.
	I'm acutely aware of being white.
	I don't know if any of you noticed.
	But in all seriousness, those of you that look like me, it's super important that the community see you speaking out.
	An injustice against any of us is an injustice against all of us.
	And all I'm going to say is what Desmond Tutu said.
	If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressive.
	So while Donald Trump and MAGA Republicans are pushing for redistricting, they have, in doing so, they are repeatedly attacking communities of color.
	We on this, the Democrats on this panel, will be fighting that with everything we have.
	Thank you for being here today.
	And Mr. Chairman, thank you for the lately speaking.
	Thank you, Vice Chairman.
	Mr. Turner, for what purpose?
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	Before I do that, Chair will show that Representative Compass is present.
	Representative Turner, for what purpose?
	Mr. Chairman, a brief opening statement from the Mr. Chair recognizes Representative Turner for a brief opening statement.
	Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
	I want to begin by welcoming you and all the members of the committee to House District 101 and the University of Texas at Arlington.
	And just to give you a 30-second infomercial on UT Arlington, you're right now at a designated R1 research institution, the largest university in North Texas, the second largest in the UT system, the sixth most diverse school in the United States, a designated Hispanic-serving institution, and a designated AAPI-serving institution.
	And we are, those of us here in North Texas, we are proud of UT Arlington.
	I want to personally thank President Jennifer Cowley and her staff for making this facility and parking available to the Texas House and to the public this evening.
	But most of all, I want to thank the hundreds of North Texas residents, you, who are here this evening to make your voices heard on congressional redistricting.
	And as Vice Chair Rosenthal stated, we are here today because President Trump has ordered Governor Abbott to redraw our state's congressional districts in the middle of the decade with no new census data to consider.
	Now, the flimsy pretext for this unnecessary process is a letter from Trump's DOJ, Department of Justice, that says the legislature needs to go out and identify majority minority districts and dismantle them, including Congressional District 33 right here in Tarrant and Dallas counties.
	Now, voting rights experts who testified at our first hearing in Austin last week thoroughly debunked the DOJ's position.
	And of course, DOJ has not made itself available to this committee so we can understand where they're coming from.
	It is essential that we hear from the Department of Justice because their position is completely at odds with the sworn testimony state Republican leaders recently gave in federal court.
	Their testimony was that the current map was drawn, quote, blind to race.
	So, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate that you have now formally invited DOJ to appear, received a copy of that letter.
	I appreciate that in response to our requests in the first two hearings.
	Mr. Chairman, if I may, that's the end of my statement.
	If I may, may I ask, has the Department of Justice responded to your invitation yet?
	I have not received a formal response.
	I received an out-of-office notification, so I know the email went through.
	Well, Mr. Chairman, I would hope the Department of Justice will respond in a serious manner to the Chairman of the House Redistricting Committee promptly.
	As I say, it is essential we hear from DOJ in this process before we consider any maps.
	And so if we do not hear quickly, I would hope the committee would entertain a subpoena process.
	My understanding is that there is a process in the District of Columbia where they can domesticate a subpoena from out of the District of Columbia.
	So I'd like the committee to pursue that process, if need be, to get DOJ before this committee so we can ask him questions.
	Committee to cover you today.
	Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
	Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
	Members, any other questions?
	Okay.
	With that, we're here to the main event for today, the public testimony.
	Chair's open public testimony.
	I'm going to call up our first four witnesses.
	If you'll kind of amongst yourselves divide amongst these two microphones, I'd appreciate it.
	We'll get through it kind of as we go.
	And I see my colleague Representative Johnson for Congresswoman Johnson here.
	So glad to have you.
	And let's go ahead and want to make sure I get my stopwatch going here.
	Okay.
	Chair calls Sylvia Garcia, Julie Johnson, Casey Thomas, and Roman Palomares.
	Now, if those four will make their way to the two microphones, the next four after them, if you'll just kind of be ready to get up once they're done, Royce West, Elsie Cook Holmes, Aisha Simmons, and Jeff.
	Well, I'm going to come back to you, Jeff.
	We'll come back to Jeff in a second.
	Okay.
	But those other three, if you'll be on standby.
	Okay.
	Chair calls Sylvia Garcia.
	Shall you register to testify, Sylvia Garcia, on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan?
	Is that correct?
	That's correct.
	Good to have you with us again, Congresswoman.
	Please give us your testimony.
	Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee.
sylvia garcia ▲ ● ▼		As I said in Austin and Houston, we should not be here today.
unidentified		You shouldn't be back in Austin passing legislation to support families in the Hill Country after the devastating flooding.
		Instead, we are today playing political games to appease the felon in the White House and his lust for power.
		We are pretending that the governor did not approve the very maps he now is insisting on changing.
		So as we begin the last of the scheduled hearings, have we really learned anything different?
sylvia garcia ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		The chair was emphatic in Austin that you all did not vote on a non-constitutional map and that it did comply fully with the Voting Rights Act.
sylvia garcia ▲ ● ▼		In Houston, the chair was equally emphatic that these hearings are about whether to withdraw the lines, not how.
sylvia garcia ▲ ● ▼		At both hearings, we established that no BAPs have been released and that this panel has not seen any proposed maps.
unidentified		Also established was that there is no new census population to consider and that this is indeed an unusual mid-decade redrawing.
		The DOJ letter targets four minority urban districts, including mine in Houston, to create five new Republican districts at the request of the felon in the White House.
		The deadline for draft maps per that letter is August 7th, about 10 days away.
sylvia garcia ▲ ● ▼		My district is a target.
unidentified		It's a majority-minority district.
		At nearly 75% of Latino, this district was created to comply with the Voting Rights Act.
		And any suggestion otherwise by DOJ is simply false.
sylvia garcia ▲ ● ▼		We are tied by communities of interest that values faith, family, culture, language, hard work, and service.
unidentified		We believe in a democracy in the principle of one person, one vote.
sylvia garcia ▲ ● ▼		The American dream is not just a slogan for us.
sylvia garcia ▲ ● ▼		It's something we live every single day.
unidentified		And frankly, Mr. Chairman, we would never, ever let a con man from New York tell us Texans what to do.
		Mr. Chairman, I want to go on record as being against any changes to the maps.
		I realize that you're going to record me as neutral, but I fear that what will happen is that the White House will brag that everybody was neutral in Texas.
sylvia garcia ▲ ● ▼		Let's make sure that the message is clear that we could not register a hell no.
unidentified		Understand.
		Members, any questions for that witness?
		Hear none.
		Chair recognizes Mr. Thomas at the other mic.
		Shall you register to testify as Casey Thomas on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan?
		Is that correct?
		Understood.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Well, she's a hard act to follow.
		To the House Select Committee on Redistricting.
		Thank you, Chair and Vice Chair, and members of the House Select Committee on Redistricting for hosting this important in-person hearing in the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex in the House District of Honorable Chris Turner.
		And yes, I was watching.
		That's an inside joke.
		How did you get here?
		Nobody's supposed to be here.
		These are the words from a popular song from the 1990s song by Deborah Cox.
		However, these are the same words that many Texans are asking themselves as it relates to this effort of mid-decade redistricting.
		I served as the chair of the City of Dallas Complete Count Committee on the 2000 census during my time on the Dallas City Council.
		We led the city through the process of completing the U.S. Census during the pandemic.
		We didn't begin our redistricting process for the city of Dallas until after we received the results from the 2020 census.
		And that is traditionally when this process takes place.
		In the state of Texas, the black, brown, and Asian population each individually outgrew that of the white population over the last decade.
		But out of the two new congressional seats awarded, they both went to white voters.
		Make no mistake, this is about race and not about party.
		Let me say that again.
		This is about race and not about party.
		If it's not about race, why are the four congressional districts targeted by the Department of Justice led are represented by three black congressmembers and one Latino congressman?
		Currently, the population of Texas is only 40% white, but white voters control 28 out of the 38 congressional seats, which is over 73%.
		If the current resident in the White House, that's what I call him, gets his wish, which is an additional four or five congressional seats, that would increase to 84 or 87 percent.
		That's modern day apartheid.
		This should not be happening in the state of Texas.
		We shouldn't even be having this hearing.
		I ask that each of you think about what's in the best interest of your constituents and the people who live in the state of Texas.
		How did you get here?
		Nobody's supposed to be here.
		Please.
		Thank you for your time, and may God bless you in the state of Texas.
		Thank you for your testimony.
		Representative Honors World Folks.
		Mr. Thomas, if you come back.
		Yeah, once you're done, testifying.
		If you'll wait, there might be a question for you.
		And going forward, what I'm going to do, just to be courteous, I don't want you to have to sit up there for too long.
		I'm just going to call y'all two at a time.
		And once you're done, I'll call the next person for that mic and so on.
		That way we don't have to stand up too long.
		Ms. Coberhawkins, recognize the question witness.
		Thank you.
		Mr. Thomas.
		Yes, ma'am.
		When we talk about the three African-American districts, they're iconic.
		Would you agree with that?
		I would agree 100%.
		And when we talk about those seats, they represent who?
		They represent those particular three seats, represent the late Sylvester Turner, who held that seat.
		And unfortunately, the governor chose to wait until November, almost a year after his death, to fill that seat.
		Second seat, by the Honorable Al Green, who has stood in the face of terror and terror of death threats.
		And the third, my brother right here, Councilman Mark Veazey, thank you for your service and representing the Metroplex.
		So, Mr. Thomas, if we look at trying to destroy those districts, we're also trying to destroy iconic historical African-American history.
		Would you agree with that?
		I agree 100%.
		So, when we look at the NAACP and your work and Brother Bletzo's work, it appears that work is trying to be unraveled.
		Would you agree with that?
		Absolutely.
	We're seeing decades, decades of progress being unraveled in approximately six months.
	And also, would you agree is disrespectful to our iconic Sylvester Turner, Sheila Jackson-Lee, Barbara Jordan, Nikki Leland.
	Would you agree with that?
	I agree 100%.
	So, my final question is this.
	Are we going to let this happen?
	Absolutely not.
	What did Congresswoman Garcia say?
	Hell no.
	And I would say to my colleagues here on the dais, let's not let D.C. destroy Texas.
	And I think it's important that everybody in this room stay engaged all the way through to this process so that my colleagues could understand this is unnecessary, it should not be occurring.
	and we're not going to stand by idly to let it happen.
	Thank you.
	Members, any other questions for this witness?
	Chair Herzegovina, thank you for your testimony.
	Witness is excused.
	Chair calls Julie Johnson.
	I'll show you register and testify as Julie Johnson.
	On behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan, is that correct?
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Please give us your testimony.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Chairman Vasu, Vice Chair Rosenthal, Ms. Teague, the committee, so many friends.
		It's so good to see you all again.
		I have to say, Republicans in D.C. are just as crazy as you guys, so it's good to see you here.
		I would like to thank the committee for hosting this field hearing in Arlington and allowing me to testify, I guess, address you today.
		Everyone here already knows this, but I'll say it anyway.
		Texas is a large and diverse state, not just in terms of population, but also in terms of geography.
		We have urban, suburban, and rural communities.
		We have plains, hills, mountains, prairies, and the piney woods, the Gulf Coast, and more.
		Each member of this committee represents a part of Texas that is completely unique from the colleagues sitting next to you.
		And that is the same truth for the congressional delegation as well.
		In Texas 32, and I want to shout out all my 32 folks that are here to defend our seat.
		I represent an urban and suburban area in DFW with a majority-minority constituency.
		My constituents need a representative who will fight for affordable housing, public transportation, and economic growth across diverse neighborhoods.
		And these needs differ from rural districts whose priorities might include agricultural needs, water infrastructure, rural broadband, and rural hospitals.
		Part of my job in Congress is to secure funding for the district's local needs and projects.
		This is only achieved by my district lines to provide a cohesive priorities across these communities.
		If the community committee considers and passes a map where 32 becomes a suburban and rural district, that will no longer be possible.
		This would pit communities against one another, leaving many of the communities' needs ignored.
		By lumping rural and suburban and urban communities together, Texas will weaken their voices and ensure that no one receives the fair representation that they deserve.
unidentified		The administration's demand to Governor Abbott to redistrict mid-Decade after claiming the current map was not drawn with racial intent is disingenuous, clearly political, and outrageous.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		Now you are being told to target districts based on their racial composition.
		This is wrong.
		It's unconstitutional and violates the Voting Rights Act.
		Texans already suffer from one of the most racially gerrymandered congressional maps in the country.
		After the 2020 census documented, the most population growth over the last decade came from people of color.
		Texas chose to increase the number of majority white districts during this 2021 redistricting.
unidentified		And now apparently, it was not enough.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		Basically, Mr. Chairman, this process is wrong.
		You highs have the power to stop it.
		I hope you will use your power for the benefit of the people of Texas.
unidentified		Thank you for testing.
		Members, any questions for this witness?
		The chair has none.
		The witness is excuse.
		Thank you.
		On this microphone, in just a little bit, if Elsie Cook Holmes will come to this microphone, we'll come to you in just a little bit.
		Chair calls Roman Palomares.
		Shall you register to testify as Roman Palomares on behalf of LULAC on the revised Congressional Redistricting Plan?
		Is that correct, sir?
		That's correct.
		Chair will show that Representative Manuel is present.
		Time 5:34.
		Please give us your testimony, sir.
		Thank you very much.
		Good afternoon, Chairman Bazoot and Select Committee.
		I represent the largest Latino organization in the United States, LULAC, the League of United Latin Americans.
		LULAC recognizes that Latino communities have fueled the state's rapid population growth for decades.
		And as the rep Rosenthal mentioned, between 2010 and 2020, 4 million people, 2 million Hispanic Latinos, 50% growth.
		These numbers are more than statistics.
		They represent a mandate for equal representation and political empowerment.
		LULAC strongly asserts that fair representation is not up for debate.
		The Voting Rights Act requires equal opportunity to elect candidates of our choice and create electoral maps that reflect true demographic shifts.
		Yet, certain Texas lawmakers have a history of suppressing Latino voting strength.
		They have repeatedly drawn boundaries which increase majority white districts.
		This cannot continue.
		It is illegal and unjust.
		LULAC proudly stands with coalitions of Latino, black, Asian American organizations which have consistently led legal efforts to secure fair redistricting.
		This fight is not new and it is far from over.
		As we approach the 2025 special session, our movement is prepared to stand resolute against any efforts to dilute the electoral power of communities of color.
		Texas belongs to all its residents and so must its politics and so must its political map.
		Sir, I'm going to let you continue.
		We're going to reset that.
		Hypertechnically, I've got to wait a minute.
		I stopped the timer, though.
		If somebody could just not hit that button again, we'd greatly appreciate it.
		You know, mood lighting is fine, but maybe not that kind of mood lighting.
		Oh, actually.
		While we're waiting.
		While you're waiting.
		Let me ask this real quickly while we're waiting.
		Is Domingo Garcia, Jay Nam, or Ben Whitman here?
		Any of those three here?
		If I called your name and you heard it, if you could alert a member of committee staff, we understood that you might want to testify and we had some forms for you, but we hadn't seen you.
		Okay, with that, without objection, members of the committee, the House Select Committee on House on Congressional Redition to come back to order.
		The chair will recognize Mr. Palomares to complete his testimony.
		I'll give you another 30 seconds, sir.
		Thank you, sir.
		Texans deserve the chance to weigh in before final lines are drawn.
		A rushed closed-door process only breeds more distrust and disenfranchisement.
		This is unacceptable in a modern democracy.
		The people of Texas must not allow their voices to be stolen through partisan gerrymandering.
		Lulek stands in complete opposition to any redistricting effort that undermines the will and the voice of the Latino community in any community of color.
		We will not allow decades of growth, civic participation, and sacrifice to be erased by political gamesmanship.
		Fair maps are the foundation of a functioning democracy.
		Thank you, sir.
		Thank you for your testimony.
		Members, any questions for this witness?
		The chair and her son, thank you for your testimony.
		The witness is excused.
		Chair calls Elsie Cook Holmes.
		I'll show you register to testify as Elsie Cook Holmes on behalf of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated on our revised congressional redistricting plan.
		Is that correct?
		Thank you.
		Please give us your testimony.
	Thank you, Chairman, Vice Chair, and other members of the committee.
	I am a proud resident of Texas and the immediate past international president of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated.
	For over 100 years, members of our organization have fought for civil rights and voting rights.
	And I'm representing over 350,000 members, including thousands of Texans, to oppose this rushed mid-decade redistricting process that threatens to silence communities of color and risks further harm to black and brown Texans' ability to elect their preferred representatives.
	Despite a 30-day special session, we're a week into maps or other data have been shared with the public for meaningful consideration, review, and debate.
	Yet you're asking us, your constituents, to engage in a rushed, non-transparent process that could further minimize the power of black and brown Texan voters.
	That's not democracy.
	That's disenfranchisement.
	We know that the current maps already harm black and brown communities, issues so severe that they've gone to federal court.
	And this special session is doing nothing.
	It's only exacerbating it.
	It's doing nothing to fix the injustices in Texas congressional map.
	So we encourage you, we encourage you to consider the fact that Texans deserve a congressional map that allows them the opportunity to choose their leaders.
	They do not deserve a map crafted behind closed doors where officials choose their constituents.
	So I urge this committee to halt this process until it can be carried out with transparency, fairness, and integrity.
	As our member, Congress, Texan Zone, the late Congresswoman Barbara Jordan, said, if the society today allows wrongs to go unchallenged, the impression is created that those wrongs have the approval of the majority.
	And I do not believe the majority of Texans are for this.
	We have a right to vote to our vite to our voice in Congress.
	And so we demand.
	I'm sorry.
	Oh, please complete your testimony.
	I'll let you get another sentence.
	Okay.
	So we are watching, we are organized, and we are demanding better for our state and our democracy.
	Thank you.
	Members, any questions for this witness?
	Mr. Manual, for your purpose.
	And ma'am, my chief's going to bring you a form.
	If you could sign that form.
	Mr. Manual, no question?
	Okay.
	All right.
	If you could sign your affirmation form.
	Members, any other questions for this witness?
	Chair Hussain, thank you for your testimony, ma'am.
	You are excused.
	Chair's going to call Royce West.
	Shall you register to testify as Royce West on behalf of yourself on revised correction and district complaints?
	Senator, thank you.
	You're recognized.
	Please give us your.
	Is that correct, Senator?
	I get your registration correct, Senator.
	With all due respect to Chairman and the members of this August body, I want you to look out here.
	This is Texas, this is Texas, this is Texas.
	I know that I'm in the other body and I had some equivocation about whether or not I should come and testify.
	That equivocation lasted one second because I wanted to make certain that I had the opportunity to talk to my colleagues in the House.
	Each and every one of the Republicans that was here in 2021 voted for that map.
	You voted for it.
	The governor signed it.
	Yes, it's being contested in federal court right now.
	The chair of the Senate Redistricting Committee testified under oath that it was race blind.
	Not once but twice.
	Testified in federal court.
	And I know I've got some lawyers up here.
	Under oath that was race blind.
	The Attorney General of the state of Texas, who spent much of his time during the Biden administration, suing the federal government based on laws passed in the state of Texas.
	The governor signed this particular map that we're under right now.
	He put in a letter to the Department of Justice, as you well know, saying that the race was race blind.
	Your attorney general.
	But where is he today?
	Is he suing the Trump administration?
	No.
	Ask yourself why.
	Members, I'm not going to be long.
	I know that my colleagues in the Senate Democratic caucus are supportive of the House Democratic Caucus and asking you to just consider what the governor is asking you to do, but you don't have to vote for it.
	You do not have to vote for it.
	You know, I'm going to say this in closing.
	You know, I kind of, I'm kind of an historian, and I read a lot of books.
	And I think about some of the lynchings that occurred and a group of people that were standing there during the lynching.
	They just stood there and did nothing.
	Don't be one of those members as we deal with issues of redistricting.
	Thank you.
	Thank you for your testimony.
	Members, any questions for this women's?
	Can we recognize this?
	Good to hear you with a question again.
	Send me.
	I want to...
	There's a lot of us up here.
	No, Senator, I want to thank you for being here and I appreciate your voice in this process.
	I've been trying to dig into where these maps are, and I've had a number of members of Congress come before this committee and testify.
	I've asked several of them.
	This is the first time I've had a member of the Senate come over, so I'd be remiss if I didn't ask it.
	Have you seen these maps yet?
	Are they available to y'all in the Senate and just maybe not to us in the House?
	No, they're not.
	And let me say this: the reality is that I've been reassured that there'll be hearings once the maps come out.
	But check this out: will there be regional meetings like this?
	So everyone will have to come to Austin to see the maps, and probably not.
	Well, so let me ask you about that.
	I want to drill down into that.
	Why is that?
	I mean, we can all stand up here and talk about what we'd like to see or not see, but without a bill in front of us, there's not something that's drawn right.
	A map comes in the form of a bill in the legislature, right?
	It's the same in the Senate.
	I got to check because we do things different in the House than y'all do.
	But that's the way it works.
	Exactly.
	So, because we have nothing here, I don't know what these boundaries look like.
	I don't know what Congressman Vesey is, and I agree with you.
	What is the value of us seeing it, seeing the proposal, and being able to let folks like the folks that are here tonight, and as I walked in, hundreds more outside those doors, comment on the actual bill?
	What's the difference between that and what we're doing here today?
	That's true engagement by the public in terms of looking at maps and making comments about whether or not they fully represent communities of interest, as an example.
	Well, I appreciate that.
	I'm going to ask you one last question.
	I want to make sure the other members have an opportunity.
	My understanding is, pursuant to the Constitution, the governor can put anything on the call that we are supposed to undertake during a special session.
	You've been in the legislature longer than me, you know how that goes.
	And as far as I can find, as far as I can look into the House rules, there's nothing that says we have to take up, consider, or pass anything the governor puts on the call.
	Is there anything different?
	Do y'all operate under any different rules in the Senate?
	Do you have to do what the governor says over there?
	You said rules?
	That's it.
	Is there anything?
	Anything in the Constitution or the Senate rules to say that you have to do what's on the call?
	No.
	Is there anything that says you even have to hold hearings on it?
	No.
	Thank you, sir.
	And let me just say this, Mr. Chairman, if I may.
	There are people outside that can't get in.
	And it's my understanding, because I've talked with the general counsel of the legislative liaison for the university, and I'm being told that they were instructed not to provide any additional space for people that couldn't come in here.
	I would hope that it came from the committee.
	I would hope that you would ask UT Arlington to just open up the space across the hall, okay, and allow people to sit in there.
	Certainly, Senator, I'd be certainly happy with UC Arlington would open up that space.
	Before we send us a couple more questions, I would remind the audience, because it takes time.
	So, before we go to the next few questions for you, Senator, if Alyssa Simmons and Mark Veacee could be ready to go to these mics next, I'd appreciate it.
	I want to make sure we're fishing there.
	Any other questions for the witnesses?
	Chair recognizes Mr. Turner to question the panel.
	Thank you.
	Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
	Senator West, thank you for being here tonight.
	I think you were in the hearing room earlier when I spoke about the Department of Justice and thanked the chairman for sending a letter inviting the DOJ and suggested that the committee should consider a subpoena if need be, because we need to hear from the DOJ in this process.
	I know in the Senate, Senator King, the chairman of your registration committee, sent a letter inviting the DOJ to testify, I believe, on Friday.
	Do you happen to know?
	Are there plans being made for the DOJ to testify before the Senate Registring Committee?
	Other than knowing that a request has been made, I don't know whether or not they may be out of the office.
	Okay.
	Understood.
	I wonder where they are.
	But I would hope, Senator, that for the House and the Senate to be able to fully understand the implications of what DOJ is asking Texas to do, that the DOJ will appear before the Senate Redistricting Committee and the House Registring Committee.
	And I hope both committees will pursue a subpoena process if need be to secure their testimony.
	And I'd also hope that this committee would take into consideration that the law that's being depended upon by the Department of Justice is not settled law, by the way.
	There are other circuits that don't follow what the circuit has prescribed, and that they would allow the Supreme Court to at least opine on whether or not that ends up being the law of the country.
	Absolutely.
	Thank you.
	Chair Richard, Representative Bowers and Representative Davis, President on the Dice.
	Members, any other questions?
	Chair recognizes Representative Gerbin Hawkins.
	Question, Witness.
	Thank you, Mr. Chair.
	Senator, you've been around a long time.
	Come on.
	Senator, you know, one of the things as we go through this journey together that I think is so important.
	And I know you have this knowledge.
	What recommendation would you make to our house colleagues in terms of allowing someone to come in and destroy Texas through racial lines?
	through many other lines, and then leave and go home, and we're left with the aftermath?
	What recommendation would you give our colleagues?
	Because you know, everybody needs cover.
	And we know that when the man in the White House speaks, everybody does what?
	They jump and they listen.
	So, Senator, words of wisdom to my colleagues: don't let this man destroy Texas.
	You know, what advice would you give them?
	My advice to my Republican colleagues is to kind of look within.
	Look within.
	We all profess to be Christians, and the analogy I gave you a few minutes ago where black men were being lynched, there were probably Christians at those lynchings.
	And they engaged in that type of behavior, knowing in their heart and their soul that it was wrong.
	Wrong.
	Wrong.
	So the question is: whether or not you're going to go down that path and say, well, it's just about politics.
	Well, it's weather by making certain people in this room get an opportunity to sit at the same table that you're sitting at, have discussions, give their perspective concerning the issues, allow a vote to be taken, and let it be a reflection of the majority of your body and my body.
	We have a right to sit with you, if elected, duly elected by our constituents, and come up with policies that reflect the sentiment of the state.
	I'd ask you not to destroy what has already happened as it relates to representation by Hispanics and African Americans, because that's what your president is asking you to do.
	Not your God, but your president.
	Members, any other questions?
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chairs, none.
unidentified		Thank you for your testimony.
		Senator, your excuse.
		Thank you.
		Now, forgive me if I read this form wrong.
		Is it Alyssa Simmons?
		Elisa.
		Elisa Simmons.
		Yes.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Shall you register to testify on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan?
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Is that correct?
unidentified		Yes.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Thank you, sir.
		My name is Elisa Simmons.
		I'm the Tarrant County Commissioner that represents the precinct.
		I represent the precinct that you are currently sitting in, meeting in.
		This is my precinct.
		Welcome to ground zero of redistricting.
		Tarrant County, Texas, home of the Tea Party and MAGA Republicans, PAGA Republican County Judge, DA, Sheriff, all of them.
		I am here to urge the members of the Texas legislature to say no to racism and the racially discriminatory redraw of congressional maps.
		What you've done is planned and calculated a racist attack on the fundamental voting rights of people of color.
		I should know MAGA County Judge Tim O'Hare used a racist law firm and a racist map drawer to attack, pack, and crack African American and Hispanic neighborhoods here, just like you are trying to do to our congressional maps.
		With the mid-decade redistricting of Tarran County Commissioners' precincts, the Republicans came for me and my seat just last month.
		On June 3rd, my constituents lost their representation due to intentional racial gerrymandered MAGA politics.
		And what happened when my colleagues voted to redistrict when they voted to go after my Precinct 2 seat?
		A damn lawsuit.
		So hopefully you all are prepared for that.
		They redrew our lines not because the population shifted, not because our communities changed, but because they wanted to silence our voices.
		Like you, Texas Legislative Republicans, my MAGA colleagues wanted more power than they already have.
		Tarrant County has been in existence since 1849 and has always been Republican-led.
		What more do you want?
		They didn't give a damn who they had to disenfranchise.
		Is my time up?
		Please compete.
		Yeah, I'll let you complete your sentence.
		All right.
		That wasn't fair.
		That wasn't Democratic.
		It was designed to rig the game before the whistle even blew.
		And now Texas Republican leadership is behind closed doors, haven't seen a map or a redistricting proposal from you guys doing the same thing.
		But we are here today to say no to racism and racially discriminatory redrawing of congressional maps.
		Thank you all.
		Members, any questions to this witness?
		Representative Manuels recognized the question witness.
		Oh, Commissioner.
		Commissioner, we might.
		It's okay.
		Just remember, just stay at that microphone until we might have some questions for you.
		Representative Manuels recognized question witness.
		Thank you.
		Had a quick question.
		I know you were saying that because of this it's going to cause a lawsuit.
		Is your county right now flush with cash or do you all have an oversurplus of cash?
		I'm asking for an intent, so I'm asking questions.
		No, sir, we are not flushed with cash.
		Okay, so you're not.
		Second thing is, obviously you wouldn't know, but as of right now, since this will possibly be going to litigation, do you know how much the county is already having to spend to try to affirm what they've already done to the seat with redistricting?
		Yes.
		We have hired the racist, the firm that drew the racist map.
		We paid them to draw the racist map, $30,000, and now we've hired them to defend the damn racist map at $250,000.
		So that's just the beginning.
		That's just the beginning.
		So we're already well above $300,000?
		In less than a month.
		Okay, and then how is that end up going to be paid back?
		I mean, I know the county is going to do it, but where is that?
		Their money.
		These are the things that are going to be a lot of missing taxpayers who are already disenfranchised, as well as people who are not disenfranchised.
		Correct.
		So this is going to increase taxes in your county?
		It probably will.
		Okay, I just wanted to confirm that they are.
		Thank you, sir.
		Mr. Chairman.
	Ms. Turner, if you recognize question witness.
	Mr. Chairman.
	Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
	Commissioner Simmons, thank you for being here, and thank you for your leadership for our county and for our precinct.
	You talked about the Tarran County mid-decade redistricting.
	And I'd like you just to inform the committee how your Republican colleagues on the Commissioner's Court went about achieving it.
	Just correct me if I'm wrong, but they took heavily minority neighborhoods from Precinct 2, which you were elected to represent, and packed them into Precinct 1, which is an existing majority minority commissioner's precinct.
	Do I have that basically correct?
	That is correct.
	So Precinct 2, as politicians you know, is a competitive district.
	Precinct 1 is decidedly Democratic.
	Precincts 3 and 4 are decidedly Republican.
	So, hey, if the Republicans run a good race, they maybe could have beat me, but they didn't.
	And so it's a competitive district.
	And so, yes, my precinct, the CVAP Voting age population was 48.9% black and brown.
	And with redistricting, it's now 38% black and brown.
	So they've decimated Precinct 2.
	Okay.
	So basically, when they do these racial gerrymanders, like we're about to see in this congressional map, there's basically two ways to do it, right?
	You can crack a minority community and thereby dilute votes across several districts, and/or pack minority voters into as little geography as possible.
	But the net effect is the same, reducing the overall representation that minority voters have in their ability to elect the candidates of their choice.
	That's correct.
	So they took, for example, the Tarrant County portion of Grand Prairie, which was in Precinct II, and votes decidedly Democratic.
	That's your district.
	Yes.
	And took it right around Arlington and placed it in Precinct 1.
	So, you know, they cracked Precinct II very well and put them into Precinct 1.
	Thank you for walking us through that.
	Thank you, Commissioner.
	Thank you, sir.
	Reference and Barbara Gerburn-Hawkins for purpose.
	Mr. Chair, there's still a request for us to open up that room across the hall.
	So could we ask the whole site to have that room open?
	We've got a lot of elderly people there, people on Walkers Will Chair.
	Happy to make that request.
	Please, thank you.
	Chair Rosethoff, for purpose.
	Vice Chair Mr. Starboard.
	Question for the chairman.
	You have a question.
	When you make that request, can you please remind the folks at UT Arlington that this is a publicly funded university?
	Members.
	And just so you know, I stop the timer anytime there's a question to the chair, just so you know.
	Thank you.
	Members, any other questions for this witness?
	Commissioner, thank you for having us here today.
	Thank you for being here.
	Thank you for your testimony, your excuse.
	Chair calls Mark Vesey.
	Now, while I call up Mr. Vea, Congressman, if Leon Holloman could make your way to this other microphone, I'd love to come to you next.
	So, Leon Holloman to this microphone.
	Shall you register testifies, Mark Veacee, on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan?
	Is that correct, sir?
	Yes.
	Please give us your testimony.
	Thank you very much.
	Hi, my name is Mark Vesey, Congressman for the 33rd Congressional District.
	Born and reared in Tarrant County with proud roots in the Lake Como and Stop Six communities.
	The district that I represent is born of struggle built by hope and defined by diverse voices of both Tarrant and Dallas counties.
	From historic African-American and Hispanic communities in Southeast Fort Worth and Forest Hill to the vibrant neighborhoods of Arlington, Grand Prairie, and North Oak Cliff, and to the diverse neighborhoods in the Valley Ranch area of Irving.
	This district represents the very soul of Texas.
	And it's been the honor of my life to serve these communities to fight for every person, regardless of race, party, or ideology.
	But today I come before you not as a congressman, but as a witness, because the very communities that I serve and that I love are under threat.
	In Texas, the right to vote, a right paid for in blood and sweat and lives, is once again under siege.
	Only now the weapon is not a billy club or a literacy test, but a partisan pen wielded by those who would rig the system to preserve power rather than earn it.
	Donald Trump is demanding loyalty maps, maps drawn not to represent but to erase, erase.
	And these maps would strip away the voices of black and brown Texans who built this state and fueled its growth.
	District 33 has a combined voting age population of over 84%, a minority voting age population to be specific.
	And it was created as part of a court-ordered map in 2011 to remedy deliberate racial gerrymandering.
	And since then, minority voters have consistently and reliably elected the candidate of their choice.
	I have been humbled to earn that trust in every election, and yet this district now faces a threat of being dismantled, not for fairness, not for compliance, but to serve the raw, hungry power of one man, Donald Trump.
	Please complete your testimony.
	Just a few years ago, Governor Abbott and Republican lawmakers stood in the federal court and soar under oath that their map was legal because it was drawn, quote, race blind.
	Now Trump is claiming that the map they drew is illegal because it was drawn with racial intent.
	Now those very Republican, now those very Republican lawmakers claim that the map they drew is illegal because it was drawn with enough racial intent.
	So what is it?
	Were they lying then or are they lying now?
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Either way, one truth is clear.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Please complete your testimony.
unidentified		They have shown that they could not be trusted with the power to draw the lines that define our democracy.
		And the facts don't lie, 95% of Texas population growth came from minority residents.
		In Dallas and Tarrant counties, all the growth came from communities of color.
		And yet, out of 38 congressional districts in Texas, only 13 have consistently enabled minority voters to elect the candidate of their choice.
		And in all 13, they have chosen Democrats.
		Now, 13 of those districts are in the crosshairs.
		And make no mistake, redrawing these lines to dilute minority power would not be a neutral act.
		It would be an act of intentional racial discrimination that violates the law.
		Thank you for your testimony.
		Members, any questions for this witness?
		Representative Grover Hawkins, recognized question witness.
		Congressman, will your district land on what I call in the bullseye and the target?
		It was listed in the sham DOJ memo that was provided.
		But like everybody else, I've not seen a map.
		So if indeed a map was passed, which we haven't seen, we're talking about destroying your district.
		Right.
		How does it feel really to be under attack like that when you've been a legislator, a congressional person for a number of years?
		It's not really about how I feel.
		What really bothers me is the communities that I represent.
		That's really what bothers me.
		You know, consistently in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, and again, I'm proud to be from Fort Worth.
		I was born here.
		My grandparents came here and moved to Como with nothing.
		And I'm very proud to be from Fort Worth and to be from Tarrant County.
		I will tell you that.
		But what I'll also tell you is that I've watched this area grow.
		I've watched areas that used to be cow pastures, where there were 1A and 2A schools that now have 15 high schools.
		And all of that growth was because of black, brown, and South Asian mainly growth.
		And for them to keep drawing these seats to not reflect that growth is wrong.
		So, Congressman, have you stated all the things you needed to state to this community today?
		Yes, ma'am.
		Thank you.
		Members, any other questions for this witness?
		Chairman, I thank you, Congressman, your excuse.
		At this right microphone, if Janet Matern could make her way down to this microphone, Mr. Chairman.
		Mr. Turner, for a purpose.
		So, Chairman Yield for a question.
		Chairman, you have some questions.
		Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
		With respect to the overflow crowd outside, it's my understanding there's still not a TV hooked up or any audio video to where people waiting to testify and wanting to observe the hearing can actually hear the hearing.
		And my concern specifically is people who are maybe registered and won't hear their name when called.
		And Mr. Change, the university has the capability of doing this if they receive the direction from the committee to do so.
		I'm happy to pass along that request.
		We would certainly do so to hook up an audio visual there.
		In the meantime, I would just encourage everyone that's outside on your cell phone.
		If you'll go to house.texas.gov, there's a link to audiovisual there, and you'll be able to watch it on your phone in the meantime.
		And we will request that of the university.
		Thank you, Representative Turner.
		Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
		Members, we're going to go to our next witness.
		I'll start the clock again.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		I'll show you register to testify as Leon Holloman on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
unidentified		Is that correct, sir?
		Yes, it is.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Yes, I'm glad you introduced me as Leon Holman because I am not Anthony Davis.
		Although I wish I was, but you know.
		This redistricting process is, as I should say, bigotry, racism, and fascism disguised, camouflaged, and masquerading as politics.
		If you read the New York Times article, how Texas plans to make its house districts redder, all five districts that are slated for redistricting are primarily black and/or Latino.
		This is a different candy coating on the old-fashioned chocolate-covered MM peanut of racial supremacy.
		This is tantamount to Heinrich Himmler taking order from the Fuhrer.
		It's taking representation from the people who built this country, died for this country, and are now essential workers that keep this country alive during a pandemic and to this present day.
		What the state of Texas, what the state of Texas should be doing, should be figuring out, is why a flood warning to Kerr County a day before the flood was ignored.
		Why millions of dollars in SNAP benefits were stolen from the most vulnerable in the state.
		Why did $60 million for summer school lunches for children was vetoed, even though the state of Texas has a $21.2 billion surplus?
		Those of you, please, please, please, I can't get my statement in.
		Those of you that support this immoral, unjust, and racist process are immoral, unjust, and racist.
		There is no room for negotiating wrong or right.
		It's either one or the other.
		There's no in-between or other calculus.
		If you say you have morals, a conscience, a Christian, et cetera, you should be against this process, and that's it.
		That's all.
		What would Jesus do?
		Saying that you're doing the right thing, then voting the wrong way is lying, hypocrisy, and pretense.
		It's fakery.
		Please complete your testimony.
		Then, if one says one thing, then lines up in a lockstep behind the fuel, sending him ultimate, seeding him ultimate power, rather, those who do this will be responsible for the results.
		Thank you.
		Wait right there, Mr. Holman.
		Mr. Holmer?
		We might have some.
		I just want to make sure.
		Members, any questions for this witness?
		I'm sorry.
		Chair Herson, thank you for your testimony here.
		Thank you, Mr. Holman.
		At this microphone behind him, if we could have John Van Compernell come up for this one, Chair is going to call Janet Mattern.
		Shall we register to testify as Janet Matter on behalf of the League of Women Voters of Tarrant County on the revised congressional redistricting plan?
		Is that correct?
		Hello, thank you for the opportunity.
		Please give us your testimony.
		I'm sorry?
		Please give us your testimony.
		Thank you for the opportunity to speak today.
		My name is Janet Mattern, President of the League of Women Voters of Tarrant County.
		I oppose the mid-census redistricting of congressional districts.
		Texans have the right to fair and equal representation achieved through a thoughtful, transparent process that allows meaningful public input.
		The process should establish criteria necessary to create legally compliant district maps, protect minority voting rights, and respect county lines, city boundaries, and communities of interests.
		Rushing the process can result in intentional voter disenfranchisement.
		Any proposal to remove minority representation from districts that have a history of electing people of color is a direct and intentional act of voter disenfranchisement.
		Do not silence communities of color by preventing them from having a voice in their government.
		Any map created that intentionally prohibits people of color from electing a representative who looks like them violates the Voting Rights Act.
		Rushing the process limits public input, erodes transparency, as well as public trust.
		Why are we here?
		Your constituents did not put redistricting on the special session agenda, did they?
		Redistricting should empower voters, not politicians.
		Reject any maps that disenfranchise voters and undermine democracy.
		Thank you.
		Thank you for your testimony.
		Members, any questions for this witness?
		Chair Herzon, thank you, ma'am.
		You're excused.
		At this microphone, if we could have Chaplain Rich Stoglin come up to this microphone here, we'll come to you next, sir.
		Chair calls John Van Compernell.
		Shall you register to testify on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan?
		Is that correct?
	That's correct.
	Please give us your testimony.
	For those members of the committee that know me, you know that I am the last person that will show up here and support the federal government telling Texas what to do.
	You know that for a fact if you know me.
	The next thing, I think, is to understand the essence of the coming of age of the word gerrymandering.
	In 1812, Eldridge Jerry structured a Massachusetts State Senate district to ensure his election to that seat.
	It was in the shape of a salamander, hence gerrymander.
	If you look at today's congressional maps, they don't look like salamanders at all.
	They look like a Salvador Dolly drawing.
	Because the governor has put this on a special session, you have an opportunity.
	You have an opportunity to draw 38 boxes, each of which contains 758,000 people of any color, of any political persuasion.
	You should not disregard that opportunity.
	You should take this opportunity to draw a map that is colorblind, party blind, and simply has 38 boxes with 758,000 people in each box.
	Don't pay attention to the hyperbole.
	Don't pay attention to the nonsense.
	Pay attention to the opportunity that you have and grasp it.
	Grasp it with every being, every part of your being.
	Thank you for this opportunity.
	For those in the audience, we are mandated to collect communities of common interest along geographic boundaries.
	Is that what you're advocating for today?
	I'm advocating for fairness in drawing boundaries.
	Sure, sir.
	If you have an opportunity.
	Now, I understand that the Constitution says you do it with every census.
	If, in fact, these districts, as they're drawn, are gerrymandered, which many people have said they are, then you have an opportunity to ungerrymander them.
	Why not take advantage of that opportunity?
	And it's a very good point, and I back you on that 100%.
	If we were to undertake that, do you think that that should be informed with updated data and careful consideration, plenty of thought?
	And then, if we were to draw some new maps, roll them out and let folks like this all over the state weigh in on what those maps are.
	Every affected district should have an opportunity to come speak before us.
	Do you think that's?
	Oh, no, I think once you have, I couldn't quite hear everything because of the applause.
	I think that the opportunity you have is to fix what's wrong.
	I wish we would do that.
	And Ake, if you take the census data from 2020, then use that data.
	But fix the shape so that you have something.
	Let's say that we can only reach shapes of a salamander.
	That's a whole lot better than the dallymander that we have.
	Thank you, sir.
	Members, any other questions for this witness?
	Seeing none.
	Thank you for your testimony.
	The witness is excused.
	If Lauren Pena can make her way down to this microphone, Lauren Pena, this microphone here.
	Chair calls Chaplain Rich Stoglin.
	Shall you register to testify on behalf of yourself on the revised Congressional Redistricting Plan?
	Is that correct, sir?
	I'm here to represent the Frederick Douglass Republicans of Terran County.
	Let me, do I have permission to change your registration to say?
	And what was that again?
chaplain rich stoglin ▲ ● ▼		The Frederick Douglass Republicans of Terran County.
chaplain rich stoglin ▲ ● ▼		I'm the president.
unidentified		Frederick Douglass Republicans of Terran County.
chaplain rich stoglin ▲ ● ▼		And I am the president.
unidentified		The gallery will come to order.
unidentified		Please give us your testimony, sir.
chaplain rich stoglin ▲ ● ▼		My name is Chaplain Rich Stoglin.
		I'm a native Texan, currently residing in Arlington, Texas, and I'm the president of the Frederick Douglass with Puzzle-Terran County.
		The renowned economist Dr. Thomas Sewell stated, one of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.
		While the founder of the Frederick Douglass Republicans of Tarran County, the late Honorable Reby Carey, stated to black and brown Americans, be an informed, intelligent voter.
		Make your vote count.
		Remember, freedom isn't free.
		Someone has to pay the price.
		Historically, Texas has elected 40 Democrats, one Independent, one Unionist, and six Republican governors.
		We must read and evaluate the prosperity of our great state under each party.
		On 4 through 6, 1867, in Houston, Texas, the Republican Party of Texas was created by 150 colored men and 20 white men.
		They did this in the name of justice then, and we're requesting redistricting in the name of justice now.
		I echo their clarion call to have Republican leadership in the great state of Texas.
		As a black American, Afghanistan veteran, a retired department head of the U.S. Department of Justice, I strongly support the Republican redistricting.
		I do not want, nor does the great state of Texas or this magnificent nation deserve to continue.
unidentified		Gentlemen, we yield.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		The gentleman will be accorded the same respect that everyone testifying receives.
		We will come to order.
		Everyone, regardless of your belief, political persuasion, or age, or whoever you are, you are an American and you're entitled to be heard and you will be heard in this committee.
		The audience will come to order.
		The gentleman is recognized to continue his testimony.
chaplain rich stoglin ▲ ● ▼		I do not want the great state of Texas or this magnificent nation to deserve to continue seeing systemic gang and street violence, a plummeting educational system, communities deteriorating, men and women, sports, etc., while Democrats sit quietly and fall to condemn or acknowledge the systemic moral decay, screaming systemic racism for anything that does not fit their narrative.
		These acts of evil must stop.
		We need Republican leadership for such a time as this.
		Republicans have a larger story.
		Echoing the words of the American icon, Mr. Frederick Douglass, you will not be judged by the heights you have risen, but from the depths you have climbed.
		I am a Republican, a black dyed-in-the-wool Republican, and I never intend to belong to any other party but the party of freedom and progress, Frederick Douglass.
		We need and must have increased Republican leadership in the great state of Texas to remain great.
		As president of the Frederick Douglass Republicans of Tarran County, I stand behind this statement.
		Simplify.
unidentified		Thank you for your testimony.
chaplain rich stoglin ▲ ● ▼		Any questions for me?
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Members, any questions for this witness?
chaplain rich stoglin ▲ ● ▼		And Mr. Chairman?
unidentified		Oh, yield.
unidentified		Hey.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		This is America.
		We hear from everyone whether we agree with them or not.
		And the audience will come to order and extend the common courtesy of hearing every witness, regardless of their political persuasion.
		Now, with that basis, Mr. Emmanuel, for what purpose?
unidentified		Pass the gentleman across the question.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		The gentleman yields for questions.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Gentlemen, Mr. Emmanuel's recognized question of witness.
unidentified		You made a statement when you were speaking, and I just want to kind of get the understanding of it.
		So you don't think that redlining in communities throughout the nation had anything to do with the decay that happened with communities as they were rising and as they were trying to force?
		If you all could not, it would, because we need to move on to the next question.
chaplain rich stoglin ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you a question, sir.
unidentified		The Democratic Party created that redlining.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Gentlemen yield for one moment.
unidentified		Just so it's clear, questions only come from the dice.
		It's just in order for this process.
		So, if the gentleman would be happy to answer Mr. Emmanuel's question, the Democratic Party created the redlining, just like they created the Jim Crow laws, the hang and all.
		That was the Democratic Party, sir.
		And people and people talked about what I asked you.
		I asked you, did you think that redlining had anything to do with that?
		And also, you're going to have to do it.
		And you're also being just a little disingenuous because the parties had two different platforms at that time.
		No, no, sir.
		It was a very different party.
		It was a very different platform.
chaplain rich stoglin ▲ ● ▼		I can hardly hear what you.
unidentified		I know.
		If you all would, I know some people are excited, but we really can't get to the answers.
		No, sir, we can't.
chaplain rich stoglin ▲ ● ▼		I cannot hear you.
unidentified		I'm sorry.
unidentified		What I'm saying is you're being a little disingenuous because at that time the party had two different platforms.
chaplain rich stoglin ▲ ● ▼		With what time?
		What they were talking about.
		What time later?
unidentified		The party that you're talking about when it came to redlining.
		Whenever people say Republicans, I don't care if you're Republican, Democrat, Independent.
		I'm a Democrat.
		The point of it is, as someone who loves and adores history, the party had two different platforms.
chaplain rich stoglin ▲ ● ▼		Totally.
unidentified		It wasn't the same platform.
		Wait one second.
		The parties had two different platforms.
		So you're being a little disingenuous to people when you try to say that it's Democrats.
		Yes, it was Southern Democrats with a very different platform than what Democrats currently have today.
		Because in 1965, there was not an LGBTQ movement, and neither Republican nor Democrat had it.
		That doesn't mean that it's the same party.
		So we can't say that because they also had Dixiecrats, you had other Democrats, you had black Republicans.
		Yes, but it was a very different time.
		So I think it's best that we don't.
		No, you can't ask questions.
		I asked the question.
		I'm going to answer.
		So thank you so much.
		No, sir.
		Mr. Chair, I'm trying to answer your question because what you say was not factually true.
		You answered the question I asked you about redlining.
		You agreed with that.
		The gentleman may respond to the question, but in all fair, I'm trying to have a conversation, but I cannot hardly hear you.
		Ladies, in 1962.
		The gentleman, you for a moment, gentlemen, you for a moment.
		It's important to remain a little quiet because so they can hear, right?
		We want them to both be able to hear each other so that they can ask a question and answer.
		If the gentleman will gladly answer Mr. Emmanuel's questions, but questions cannot be asked from the front mic, just so it's clear.
		Thank you, Mr. The Gentleman's recognized to answer the question.
chaplain rich stoglin ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
		In 1965, what you're talking about, which the Voting Rights Act was passed, it was signed by Linda B. Johnson, but it was voted primarily by Republicans in 1965.
		That's a fact.
		That's documented.
unidentified		Members, any other questions for the witness?
		Okay.
		Thank you for your testimony.
		The gentleman is excused.
		And, Mr. Chair.
		If Mr. John Gardner can come down.
		I apologize, sir.
		I've excused.
		I apologize.
		But technically, since I've excused, the gentleman's not recognized.
		If Mr. John Gardner could come down to this runtime, Mike, thank you, sir.
		And we're going to recognize Lauren.
		No, we're not.
		All right.
		Chair recognizes Lauren Pena.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		I'll show you register to testify as Lauren Pena on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
unidentified		Is that correct?
		Yes, sir.
		Thank you.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		If the gallery will come to order so that the lady can be afforded the respect due her as a testifying witness, please give us your testimony.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Hi, thank you guys so much for letting me be here today.
		My name is Lauren Pena.
		I currently reside in one of the first housing projects ever implemented in the United States right now.
		All of our civil rights are being severely violated.
		I have reached out to every single elected official on my state, federal, and local level to try to get assistance for elderly and disabled that are trapped on the second, third, and fourth-story floors.
		They can't even leave to go get groceries because the elevator is broken and they're in wheelchairs.
		None of my elected officials have been willing to help me.
		So, yes, I am a Republican running for United States Congress, living in federal housing projects.
		Now, I would like to get over here and speak about some things that I would like to improve.
		I think that when John had brought up that there are, you know, about 700,000 people, if they could each be in a district like that, there are about 700,000 people that are in a HUD property right now in Texas, and we have absolutely no representation.
		So, as far as this redistricting, I have two suggestions.
		One, we could go and we could let there be an at-large person, someone who is receiving these benefits that could go and possibly just serve two terms, trade up the next generation so that we can keep having people that are actually in poverty having a voice in our government, or we can simply just take every major city and put a district inside the inner city because that is the problem.
		We do not have representation inside the inner cities, and I can tell you all right now that it is not good.
		The conditions are not good.
		Your taxpayer dollars are being weaponized against me, my family, and all of the other people there.
		There are elderly, there are disabled, there are veterans.
		Their rights are being severely violated.
		And this is not a party thing.
		This should not be about who's a Republican or who's a Democrat.
		This is about human dignity.
		This is about people being harmed by these policies, and we have no representation.
		So, I beg you guys, give my community, the poor community, people living in poverty, actual poverty, to have a voice in this nation.
		And thank you.
		I'd be happy to answer any questions.
		Thank you for your testimony.
		Members, any questions for this witness?
		Chair Hisni, thank you for your testimony.
		The witness is excused.
		I forgot to give an alert earlier about the closing of registration, so I'm going to extend it another 10 minutes.
		Registration will close at 6:40 p.m., 6:40 p.m., right out front.
		If you haven't registered, testify, we'd love for you to do that right out front.
		At this time, the chair, if I could get down to this microphone, and I apologize if I ever butcher name here.
		But Kim Batchelor, I believe, if you'll come down here to this front microphone, love to have you here in a second, but I'm going to go to Mr. John Gardner.
		I'm sure you registered testify as John Gardner on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
		Is that correct?
		That is correct.
		Please give us your testimony.
		You might want to come a little closer to that microphone.
		There you go.
		Perfect.
		Thank you, sir.
		Thank you.
		Good evening, Chair and members of the committee.
		My name is John Gardner.
		I'm with the Transport Workers Union.
		We represent flight attendants, baggage handlers, ramp agents, mechanics, and other ground service employees at major airlines in the DFW Metroplex and throughout the state.
		I am here today not just as a union leader, but as a proud Texan and a community advocate who has been on the ground walking through these neighborhoods and organizing workers and standing with working families in the city of Fort Worth.
		Today I speak out against this dangerous redistricting process that threatens to divide our communities and divide us, deny us our voice.
		In 2021, redistricting was done after the 2020 census.
		Texas gained 2 million residents.
		Roughly 90% of that growth were from communities of color.
		Two new congressional districts were created.
		You would expect that the two new districts created would be representing communities of color.
		But instead, two majority white districts were created, even though they said that race was not a deciding factor in drawing the maps.
		Why are we doing this and why now?
		There has not been a new census showing a change in population of the current districts that would create the need to redistrict again.
		President Trump told Governor Abbott, get me five new Republican seats.
		Then they targeted five majority black and brown districts, and their voices are being attempted to be silenced.
		District 18 has been without a representative since Sylvester Turner's death in March.
		An election should have been scheduled right away, but instead, it is not until November, and runoffs are likely with the potential of more than a year without representation.
		Residents in a district should have common interest.
		Rural areas had the interest in the farm bill, urban areas in mass transit and jobs.
		Districts need to have a representative who lives in their district who knows what their district needs.
	Representative Mark Vesey lives in District 33.
	He knows what his constituents need, and he gets things done.
	And he has been a great advocate for workers.
	When a district with a community of color is gerrymandered, it often is stretched out more than 100 miles in a rural area, and urban voices are rarely heard in such a large rural district.
	Do not silence the voice of communities of color with unnecessary redistricting.
	Please vote against redistricting in the middle of a decade.
	So I ask you, stand with Texans, stand for fair maps, and put Texans first, not Trump politics.
	Thank you.
	Thank you for your testimony.
	Members, any questions for the gentleman like this comment?
	Members, any questions for this witness?
	Chair is not.
	Thank you for your testimony.
	The witnesses' excuse.
	The chair is pleased to announce that we do have the overflow room now open across the hall with streaming video.
	I appreciate the University of Texas at Arlington accommodating us with that, and I appreciate everybody just make sure that we maintain order here so we get through these witnesses.
	I'm going to come to you in just a moment, ma'am.
	If I could have Jeff Archer come to this microphone over here, we're going to come to him next.
	Thank you very much.
	Chair calls, we're going to decide, Jeff.
	Thank you.
	Chair calls Kim Batchelor.
	Shall you register to testify on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan?
	Is that correct, ma'am?
sylvia garcia ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Please give us your testimony.
		And you have some handouts?
		I do have some copy.
		Representative Bojani, could you maybe grab that from her?
		Thank you so much.
		We'll gladly pass this out for you.
		And we'll reset your testimony time and let you start now.
		Thank you, ma'am.
		Thank you.
		I'd like to thank the committee for giving me the opportunity to speak on this very important issue.
		I'm a native-born Texan and a Christian, and I really want to direct my remarks to Christian legislators who are inclined to support this redistricting effort.
		In Matthew 20 and Luke 19, Jesus said, you know the rulers of the Gentiles lorded over them and their great ones are tyrants over them.
		It will not be so among you, but whoever wishes to be first among you must be your slave, just as the Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many.
		Jesus modeled this for us who would be disciples by taking off his tunic, wrapping a cloth around his waist, and washing people's feet.
		The state of Texas gained three new seats after the last census count because of growth in the Latino-Hispanic population, but crafted two of those seats to benefit people with my skin color.
		To redistrict now to produce similar districts is more lording over and certainly not Christ-like.
		I am blessed to live in District 33 amongst a diverse group of neighbors, all of us made in the image of God.
		For some reason, you have provided us no maps, but I can foresee one that slices through our Southern Dallas neighborhood to create a district from Brownwood to Gun Barrel City, or maybe the legislature and the governor will create a district that resembles a beast with seven heads and ten horns that combines us with Amarillo.
		A word of caution.
		I work with some really good people in Amarillo to defeat a pit neighbor against neighbor travel ban by 20 points.
		So you never know what brings people together.
		To those who support this unjust redistricting, I call on you to instead please remove your tunic of power, wrap a towel around your waist, and serve all the people of this state, not the power-hungry tyrant in Washington, D.C., who and please reject this effort.
		Thank you.
		Thank you for your testimony, ma'am.
		If you'll hold up, we might have a question for you, ma'am.
		Members, any questions for the departing witness?
		Chair here, son, the lady is excused.
		I'm going to make a brief request here.
		I'll pause our timer here for a moment.
		Is Freddie Haynes here?
		Did you, Mr. Haynes?
		Did you already register?
		You already registered?
		Do we have your permission?
		Hold, if you hang on, I got to be able to hear him, guys.
		Do we have your permission to delete the old registration and anoint the new one?
		Okay.
		We're going to bring that to you.
		If you could fill out another one, apologize.
		The vice chair has requested you to testify, and we want to make sure we do that.
		But I have honestly no idea where you are in that stack, and that would take a long time to find you.
		So we're going to do you a new registration.
		All right.
		Now, Chair Cole, Jeff Archer.
		I'll show you register to testify as Jeff Archer with the Texas Legislative Council.
		And as always, you are neutral.
		Is that correct?
		And on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
		Did I get that right, Jeff?
		That's correct.
		All right.
		Now, members, we have brought Mr. Archer here.
		I believe that a member of the committee had a question.
		Just note for the committee that Legislative Council enjoys a privilege with members, so don't go into anything privileged.
		But Representative Emmanuel, for what purpose?
		A few questions, please.
		Please, you recognize the question of witness.
		Thank you.
		Just had a few questions about the Red Apple app.
		What were the dates that that app was down?
		There was a technical error on the computers throughout our software.
		I'm not aware of any technical error with Red Apple that took it down.
		There was routine, I say routine, there was important data center maintenance done on Sunday morning, I believe that's the 28th or 9th of 28th of June.
	The last Sunday in June.
	Okay.
	And it was planned.
	It was planned.
	Was a notice sent out about that?
	Yes.
	Every member of the legislature and every staffer in the legislative community received notice.
	In addition, we notified all the registered users on Red Apple.
	So those private groups, the sponsored groups, the Red Apple.
	When was that completed?
	Probably by noon on that Sunday morning.
	Okay, noon on that Sunday morning.
	Okay.
	I can give you copies of the notices.
	Yes.
	Because my office reached out because it was removed from our computers from my district to my capital office.
	And we had to have it basically re-put back in by edge council.
	And so I'm trying to see why it was removed on that date because when we tried to get into it, it just wouldn't show up on any of our applications.
	And again, I'm not trying to say you all are doing anything to Ferris.
	Wondering why it was removed once right before it was called by the governor.
	So you said it was only from the 28th in the morning to the same day, all the same day.
	Just one Sunday.
	And there's not a reason that it was removed from computers at two different locations.
	That shouldn't be related.
	If you look at the ticket from my office, you'll see that it was removed.
	And in about an hour or so, they were called back and said it was put back on.
	And it was for technical reasons.
	Yeah, and I'm not aware of what that was.
	Okay.
	And is there a way that we can get a request of what those technical reasons were?
	Yeah, I can look into why what may have happened on your own.
	And what changes were made to it?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	That's all I really wanted to know.
	Thank you so much.
	Thank you very much.
	Members, any other questions to the resource witnesses?
	Mr. Chairman.
	Mr. Turner, for purpose.
	Question one.
	Recognized.
	Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
	Mr. Archer, thank you for being here today.
	If memory serves from the last redistricting in 2021, one of the functions of Ledge Council is to receive the data file from the United States Census Bureau, input into the Red Apple application that you were just discussing with Representative Manuel.
	So then legislators have that data and others have that data in order to draw maps.
	Do I have that roughly correct?
	That's correct.
	State leadership designates several recipients of the census data, including the state demographer, I'm not sure who else, and the Legislative Council, excuse me, on behalf of the legislature.
	Okay.
	And Texas Legislative Council received that data from the Census Bureau in 2021, is that right?
	Yes.
	As you recall, it was late.
	It was in early September.
	Late August.
	Right.
	Okay.
	Has Legislative Council received any new data from the Census Bureau since 2021?
	We receive annual American Community Survey data.
	Right.
	But in terms of an actual census count, as you would receive after the decennial census, there's been no new census conducted.
	No new census data.
	The American Compunitive Survey has estimates of geographic areas, but not block level.
	Not block level, right?
	So if the legislature does embark on this mid-decade redistricting, again, as the chair has stated, there is no map yet that we've seen.
	But if there was to be a map drawn, it would be based upon census data that is now five years old.
	Is that right?
	If it's based on census data, it would be five-year-old census data.
	Is there a way to draw a map that's not based on census data?
	As you know, there have been advocates to use registered voters or other databases for that.
	So obviously you can the data for electors isn't necessarily on the same schedule.
	There are election databases for every general election.
	Sure, I understood that the legislature could look at more recent election data as it is drawing maps.
	But for purposes of drawing districts that are balanced by population, the only population data the legislature would have to work with is the 2020 census, correct?
	That's correct.
	There's no 2024 census or 2025 census to work with, right?
	No.
	Okay.
	Thank you very much.
	Members, any other questions to this witness?
	Thank you, Mr. Archer.
	You are excused.
	The time has come to close witness registration.
	Is there anyone else in this room wishing to testify on the revisions of the congressional redistricting plan?
	Ms. Rose, did you have a question to that witness?
	No, I did not, but I'm sure.
	Okay, I'm going to recognize you here just a moment.
	Anyone in this room wishing to register that hasn't?
	Sir, here's none.
	The witness closes one in the back.
	Ma'am, if you could come up, get a witness registration form.
	Anyone else?
	Chair here's none.
	Aside from the lady coming down in the black shirt, registration is closed.
	All right.
	Ms. Rose, for what purpose?
	Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
	I just wanted to make sure that you added to Elsie Cook's home's registration form that she is the 27th international president of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated.
	I think I would hypertechnically have to have her give me permission to do so.
	Is she still in this room?
	If you could come up to that microphone now.
	28th National President.
	Well, wait a minute.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Did you tell me something wrong?
unidentified		All right.
		If she could come up to that microphone real quick, I'd be correct to register.
		I've been running to these hearings and watching hearings all night long.
		I could probably get some.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		All right.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Miss.
unidentified		Here she comes.
		Oh.
		Right here.
		No.
		Ah, there we go.
		Ms. Cook Homes.
		Mr. Chair.
		Now, tell me what we need to correct on here.
		She's the 28th National President of Delta Sigma Theta.
		She's the 20th.
		So you're going to have your permission to change your registration to say you're testifying on behalf of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Inc. and that you are the 28th.
		28th president.
		International.
		International Sorority.
		All right.
		28th International.
		I'm not sure what it has on there now.
		I might say, does it say?
		What does this say?
		All right.
		I'm the immediate past international president and also the 28th.
		Okay, so, all right.
		Easy there.
		We added a little bit of it.
		I want to AM.
		Y'all bear with me for a second.
		Immediate past.
		International president.
		Immediate.
		Past.
		International president.
		I appreciate the crowd's participation.
		Y'all are doing great.
		And then.
		All right.
		Now, now I have this form.
		It says that you are the president and the 20 national, 28th international president.
		Is that correct?
		That's correct.
		All right.
		Your witness registration has been updated.
		Thank you, ma'am.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		I'm so glad to be a Delta.
		All right.
		Okay.
		I always love injecting a little levity.
		If I could have, ma'am, we're going to have to, we're going to take you in order, but we, is that, did you just register?
		I just, yes, okay.
		We're going to take you in order in just a second.
		Okay.
		Yeah.
		But it may be a while.
		Yeah.
		Sorry.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		I apologize.
unidentified		We're taking them in order received.
		Chair is going to call up to this microphone Richard Howe and to this microphone Frederick Haynes.
		Frederick Haynes, Richard Howe.
		And if Maria Garza could be ready.
		Frederick, where do you want Frederick?
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Frederick, if you could come down to this microphone.
unidentified		Richard, to that one.
		All right.
		Dr. Keeley, Dr. O'Keefe, this is a good spot.
		Okay.
		I'll show you register and testify as Richard Howe on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
		Is that correct?
		Yes.
		Please give us your testimony, sir.
		Okay.
		My name is Richard Howe.
		I live in Plano, Texas.
		I'm a native Texan born in San Antonio.
		And I'm here on behalf of myself.
		And I'm a very concerned Texas Texan.
		And I want to thank you for the opportunity for providing comments.
		I'm currently represented in the state legislature by Jeff Leach, State House District 67, Angela Paxton in the State Senate, District 8, and in the U.S. House, I'm represented by Pat Fallon in Congressional District 4.
		I'm here to oppose this out-of-cycle redistricting push during this special session, which has been dictated by outside of Texas.
		Instead, I urge this redistricting committee to maybe take this opportunity to implement a more fair and rational redistricting policy by putting forward a joint resolution for a ballot referendum to establish an independent nonpartisan commission to be responsible for future redistricting, which wouldn't happen until after 2030.
		The principles of fair representation.
		They defy logic and geographical coherence, and they compromise the integrity of the democratic processes.
		Frankly, it's embarrassing.
		Let's stop letting the majority pick their voters and get back to voters picking their elected officials.
		Thank you.
		Thank you for your testimony.
		Members, any questions for this witness?
		The chair is done.
		Thank you, sir.
		You're excused.
		At this microphone, next, if I could have Maria Garza come down to this microphone right over here, if you don't mind.
		I'll show you registered to testify as Frederick Haynes.
		Now, I believe was Doctor mentioned.
		You want me to update?
		Your witness registration form didn't say doctor.
		You want me to add that to it?
		If you'd like.
		All right.
		I have your permission to add doctor.
		Okay.
		I'll show you registered to testify as Dr. Frederick Haynes on behalf of the Friendship West Baptist Church on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
		Is that correct?
		Thank you very much.
		Please give us your testimony, sir.
		Thank you, Mr. Chair.
		My name is Frederick Douglass Haynes, and that name has been used earlier.
		I want to commend you because there are two governing principles that have informed how you have presided today.
		Number one, you said that we are going to follow the rules.
		Number two, you also mentioned that every American deserves to be heard.
		It is my prayer that that would govern how we respond to the wannabe kings dictate, the wannabe king from Washington, D.C., dictating that we redistrict at this inopportune time already districts that have been well gerrymandered.
		And so I'm asking, number one, that we follow the rules of justice.
		Justice, according to Michael Eric Dyson, is what love sounds like when it speaks in public.
		Justice means that all of us, your number two principal, deserve to have our voices heard.
		With this particular dictate coming down from Washington, D.C., our voices will not be heard.
		I'm asking, Mr. Chair, that indeed this committee reject what's coming from Washington, D.C. and ensure that our voices are heard and not only that our voices are heard, but that we follow the rules of justice.
		I basically say with what has been said before, most, if not all, on this committee have some kind of religious affiliation.
		According to my understanding of Christianity and most religions, there is a belief in justice.
		If there is a belief in justice, it especially is concerned with ensuring that the voiceless have a voice.
		Please do not rob the voiceless of a voice with a racist redistricting that follows the dictates of someone who wants to be the king and not the president of the United States of America.
		In a few months, in a few months, many of us are going to celebrate what happened 70 years ago when Rosa Parks decided that she would stand for justice by not giving up her seat.
		I've always wondered about all the other folk on the bus that December 1st day.
		What did they do?
		Rosa Parks, we agree, was on the right side of history because she took a stand for what was right and just.
		The others were on the wrong side of history because they did not take a stand at all or they went along with what was wrong.
		I'm asking you this day, please stand with Rosa Parks in that spirit, meaning that history will record that you were on the right side of history because you stood for justice.
		You were on the right side of history because you followed the rules of justice.
	You were on the right side of history because you made sure that everybody in Texas has a voice and not just voices of those who look like the occupant of the White House.
	I am begging you, please stand on the right side of history as opposed to the wrong side of history, which will hurt all of us and is against everything that is moral and everything that is just.
	Thank you for your time.
	Thank you, sir.
	Members, any questions for this witness?
	Representative Bowers is recognized to question the witness.
	The gallery will come to order so that the witness can answer questions.
	The chair recognizes Ms. Bowers to question the witness.
	Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
	I don't really have a question, but I would just like to thank Dr. Frederick Douglass Haynes for his statement and remarks, and let the church say amen.
	Ms. Bowles.
	Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
	I do have a correction that is being asked: if Roman Palomaris' registration can be changed to the national president of Lulac.
	If she is so present, I'd be happy to.
	He.
	I apologize.
	Thank you for correcting.
	If he could come down, I'd be happy to correct it.
	I need to have you into the microphone, sir, if you don't mind.
	Before you do that, any other questions for the witness at the bar?
	Representative Barbara Givernhaus, you recognize questions.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Pastor, as you well know, this is a time right now, such as this, that we've got to call on our higher power.
	I believe that my Republican colleagues may feel threatened or have that fear of dealing with the man in the White House.
	What words of wisdom could you give them so that indeed they not do this?
	I'm saying just don't do it.
	Let's be big.
	What would you give us from your wisdom, your knowledge of the Holy Spirit?
	Thank you so much.
	Thank you.
	I would just say to all of us, especially our Republican sisters and brothers, that there is a king of kings who gives us a moral compass.
	And may that moral compass make you a thermostat and not a thermometer.
	A thermometer basically goes along with the environment.
	A thermostat regulates the environment.
	You have the power from the king of kings to be a thermostat and not a thermometer.
	Members, any other questions for this witness?
	Chair here, son, thank you for your time.
	The gentleman is excused.
	Mr. Palomares, if you'll please come up to this microphone.
	I think a question was raised about correcting your witness affirmation form.
	I showed you registered to testify as Roman Palomares on behalf of LULAC.
	Was that correct or what needed to be edited there?
	I'm sorry.
	Could you repeat that?
	I showed you registered to testify as Roman Palomares on behalf of LULAC.
	Yes.
	Was that correct?
	That's correct.
	Was there something that needed to be corrected?
	No.
	Well, I want to make sure that I'm the national president and I live in District 33.
	That is indeed reflected on your witness affirmation form.
	Thank you, sir.
	Thank you.
	I'm going to, Ms. Garza, one moment.
	If I could have Laura Walters come down to this microphone.
	Now, Ms. Garza, I'll show you registered to testify as Maria Garza on behalf of the Workers' Defense Action Fund on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
	Is that correct?
	Yes.
	Please give us your testimony.
	Thank you.
	I'm an organizer with Workers' Defense Action Fund.
	My name is Maria de Jesús Garza.
	I am also a proud wife of a U.S. Marine veteran.
	I'm a proud union member.
	And I work at Workers' Defense, and we organize people, predominantly Latino folks, Latino workers, and their families here in Texas.
	Today I'm testifying in response to the legislature that's attempting to redistrict our congressional districts mid-sentence.
	I oppose this, and so does every single Dallas county person I've spoken to since the governor decided to ask to do this.
	It doesn't take a demographer, and I think someone up there said that they're an engineer, to know that squeezing five more districts out of Texas can only be done if you drag us back into an era of racial segregation, poll tax, and adopting what would be the most racially discriminatory maps in our state has seen in ages.
	There are still people missing in Kerr County.
	Millions of Texans are on the verge of losing their health care.
	Three days ago, we had a heat-related death here in Dallas County.
	Well, in Dallas County, we're not in Dallas County right now.
	In June, we had a postal worker die from heat-related issues.
	At this time, when our people are being subject to low pay, skyrocketing costs for groceries, ridiculous electric bills, and on top of that, a tax based on the color of our skin, our parents are being hunted and deported.
	The last thing we need is to worry about their congressional representatives being taken away, taking away their voice, because by taking away their voice, they're taking away their humanity.
	Texans are dying and suffering and hurting, and now you're choosing to spend this time doing this instead of actually helping the community.
	We need to do what's right for Texans.
	We need to stop what's happening here and actually focus on what people need.
	There are so many needs here in Texas.
	And I know that people that look like me might not have the courage to step in here and have this moment to tell you that this is not important, but I'm telling you on behalf of those people that this hearing, this moment, this work that you guys are choosing to do is not important.
	There are people that are dying.
	Thank you.
	Members, any questions for this witness?
	The chair has none.
	Thank you, ma'am.
	You're excused.
	We're going to take one more witness and then we'll take a brief break.
	And I emphasize a brief so everybody understands.
	Not a Texas-ledge brief break, but an actual brief break.
	All right.
	Chair calls Laura Walters.
	Shall you register to testify on behalf of yourself on the revised Congressional Redistricting Plan?
	Is that correct?
	That is correct.
	Please give us your testimony.
	My name is the Reverend Laura Walters.
	I'm an ordained pastor in the Presbyterian Church.
	I am speaking against current redistricting.
	I speak today from a Christian perspective, not because Christianity should be prioritized.
	We are stronger with a plurality in our state, but because we do not hear enough about Jesus' command to love our neighbors and prioritize the marginalized.
	You see, in our faith stories, Jesus always goes to the edge of society to listen to folks, and he does not leave them there.
	He brings people back into community so that all voices are heard.
	Jesus builds up communities.
	He does not carve them apart.
	While we have not seen any maps making this process inherently unjust, the DOJ's letter targets districts that are historically black and brown neighborhoods.
	Breaking apart communities, targeting black and Hispanic peoples, will result in large groups of Texans being underrepresented, replaced by officials who do not know or understand the needs of their constituency.
	That is unjust.
	That is not Christian.
	Redistricting mid-census is unnecessary.
	Texans haven't asked for this.
	This wasn't part of the regular session.
	The state has claimed in court that current maps are racially neutral.
	This is about power.
	Not need, not justice, not love.
	This is unjust.
	This is not Christian.
	People of color make up more than 95% of the state's growth.
	Women of color represent the majority of Texas's females.
	Texas is home to over 4 million black residents.
	And yet these folks are not equitably represented in our government.
	Voices are being silenced.
	This is unjust.
	This is not Christian.
	I'm asking you to be a little bit more like Jesus.
	Listen.
	Don't tear apart Texas communities.
	Work so all Texans can be heard and represented.
	Thank you for your testimony.
	Members, any questions for this witness?
	The chair here's none.
	Thank you, ma'am.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		You're excused.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		At this time, we're going to take a brief break.
unidentified		The House Select Committee on Congressional Redistricting will stand at ease for five minutes.
		Here's a look at some live coverage coming up live today on the C-SPAN Networks.
		First, on C-SPAN at noon, a discussion on trade between the U.S. and Canada amid tensions between the two nations.
		That's being hosted by the Hudson Institute.
		Then, at 3 p.m., the Senate Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry Committee will hold a hearing on reauthorizing the U.S. Grain Standards Act, a law that allows the federal government to set marketing standards for grains and oilseed, which will expire at the end of September.
		And over on C-SPAN 2 at 8 a.m., a discussion on homeownership featuring remarks from Ohio Republican Senator Bernie Moreno and Minnesota Democratic Senator Tina Smith.
		That's hosted by Axios.
		Then the Senate is back at 10 a.m. to work on more of the Trump administration's executive nominations, and members may also work on a spending bill to fund the Veterans Affairs Department and military construction projects.
		And over on C-SPAN 3 at 10 a.m., the Texas Senate Special Committee on Congressional Redistricting will take public comment on their plans to draw new congressional maps.
		You can also catch live coverage of these events on the C-SPAN Now app or online at c-span.org.
		As Mike said before, I happened to listen to him.
		He was on C-SPAN 1.
		That's a big upgrade, right?
		But I've read about it in the history books.
		I've seen the C-SPAN footage.
		If it's a really good idea, present it in public view on C-SPAN.
rachel maddow ▲ ● ▼		Every single time I tuned in on TikTok or C-SPAN or YouTube or anything, there were tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people watching.
unidentified		I went home after the speech and I turned on C-SPAN.
unidentified		I was on C-SPAN just this week.
patty murray ▲ ● ▼		To the American people, now is the time to tune in to C-SPAN.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		They had something $2.50 a gallon.
unidentified		I saw on television a little while ago in between my watching my great friends on C-SPAN.
unidentified		C-SPAN is televising this right now live.

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