CSPAN - Texas House Hearing on Congressional Redistricting

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July 28, 2025 22:21-00:23 - CSPAN

02:01:37

Texas House Hearing on Congressional Redistricting

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cody vasut

07:11

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		To the Politic Bureau and his family, and of course, they're blaming him for the 2024 election loss.
		And so these are beyond atypical, these are unique situations.
		This is a unique situation.
		I mean, yes, Jimmy Carter, one-term president, he loses in his bid for a second term, but people knew he was honest and always honest.
		He was a man of great character.
		He was a man who truly tried to do his best for the American people, was always honest, never ducked press conferences or interviews.
		The Texas House Select Committee on Congressional Redistricting is returning now from a short break.
		You're watching live coverage here on C-SPAN.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		last year all right For this microphone, if we could get Robin Kelly to come on down, and for this one, if we can get Danielle Ayers.
unidentified		Danielle Ayers at this one, and Robin Kelly at this one.
unidentified		All right.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		I'll show you registered to testify as Robin Kelly on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
unidentified		Is that correct?
unidentified		That's correct.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Please give us your testimony.
unidentified		Okay.
		Thank you, Chairman, fellow Aggie, and to my representative, Nicole Collya.
		Thank you, and all the representatives here.
		I wanted to say, when I first thought about what I'll say tonight in reference to this, the word that came to mind is fear.
		Fear is the strategy.
		Power is the goal.
		Because of the Browning of America, those currently in power, by hook or crook, oh, excuse me, I'm sorry, the governor's plan to redraw Texas congressional maps is nothing short of a deliberate attempt to silence communities like mine,
		black, Latino, immigrant, and working-class neighborhoods that have fought too long and too hard just to be heard.
		Now, I want to just make, I'm going to make this quick.
		My mother just texted me and said my aunt was rushed to the hospital, but this is how important this is for me that I need to say these things.
		So I'm sorry, I'm a little all over the place.
		The last thing that I'll say is Barbara Jordan made a quote.
		What the people want is very simple.
		They want an America as good as it's promised.
		What the people of Texas want, I'm going to addendum that and say what the people of Texas want is to have a voice.
		And then I want to end with a quote from Nelson Mandela.
		I think this was in regards to when one asked him about Robbins Island, how he felt.
		He said that he learned that courage, I guess, how did he have the courage to do that?
		He said that I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it.
		So I ask all of you representatives: will you have the courage to triumph?
		Thank you for your attention.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Members, any questions for this witness?
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair goes now.
unidentified		Thank you.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		The witness is excused.
unidentified		Next up at this microphone is going to be Ian Stevens.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		If you could make your way down front.
unidentified		Chair calls Danielle Ayers.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		I show you register to testify on behalf of Friendship West Baptist Church and yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Is that correct?
unidentified		That's correct.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Please give us your testimony.
unidentified		In 1964, Fane Lou Hamer stood before, sat before, the Credentials Committee at the Democratic National Convention because black voters in Mississippi were being silenced.
		And she asked the question, she said, I question America.
		Is this not the land of the free ground in communities of color?
		It is a power grab at the center of this race-based political move.
		Texas, as been mentioned before, the population growth in the last decade has come from communities of color.
		The possible maps would dilute the power of black ground and other communities of color, despite the fact that nearly all Texas population growth over the past decade has come from these communities.
		Mid-decade redistricting will fail to reflect this reality.
		They will fracture neighborhoods, split communities, and manipulate boundaries in ways that silence voters who deserve to be heard.
		The targeted districts will create maps that either pack or crack them, as we've heard before, minimizing Texas' ability to elect candidates of their choice and weakening their influence in Congress, which this is by design.
		It is fear, fear of losing power has prompted and promoted this mid-decade redistricting that will result in unfair maps.
		As committee members entrusted with the responsibility, I urge you not to ignore the demographic realities of this state or the voices of Texas who will be sidelined, Texans who will be sidelined and subjected to taxation without representation.
		Something happened because of that once before in this nation.
		Representation should not be manipulated for political gain.
		We deserve congressional maps that uplift, not suppress, protect the power of every Texan, not just politically convenient ones.
		I urge this committee to engage in a process that centers ongoing community input and reflects true voices of Texans, and not to fall prey to the bullying of the Department OF Justice and a cantankerous convicted felon in the White House who is attempting to usher in authoritarianism.
		Because the fact remains, this is still a government of the people, by the people and for the people, and we will resist all forms of tyranny.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Members, any questions for this witness?
unidentified		The chairs, none.
		The witness is excused.
		Thank you, ma'am.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Next up at this microphone is going to be Gary Jones, if you could make your way down.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Front is Ian Stevens here.
unidentified		Chair calls Ian Stevens.
		Chair will show Ian Stevens registered to testify on behalf of himself on the revised congressional redistricting plan, but not testifying.
		Next up at this microphone is going to be Jason Thomas.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		If you could make your way down front to that one, come over to you.
		Mr. Jones, show you registered to testify as Gary Jones on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
		Is that correct?
unidentified		Yes, that's correct.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Please begin your testimony.
unidentified		Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Vice Chairman, and members of the committee for staying so late tonight and coming to Tarrant County.
		My name is Gary Jones of Fort Worth, and I am here today testifying on behalf of myself on the process.
		On May 30th of this year, I testified under oath before a panel of three federal judges in El Paso regarding the state's 2021 redistricting process.
		At the time these maps were drawn, I served as chief of staff to then state Senator Beverly Powell and was her lead staffer in redistricting.
		I witnessed the 2021 process firsthand.
		Throughout 2021, we were repeatedly told that the maps were drawn blind to race.
		During my testimony in May, attorneys from the state asked me a number of questions under the assumption that the state lawmakers drew the data, drew the maps in 2021 without regard to racial data.
		Again, drawing the maps blind to race.
		I've passed around a copy of an email dated September 17th, 2021, from the staff of State Senator Joan Huffman, who led the drawing of the Senate and congressional maps.
		In that email, her redistricting staff explicitly wrote, We are drafting all maps without regard to racial data.
		In fact, the email I originally sent, which prompted this response, was said to have been, quote, closed right away just because the email contained racial data.
		So, fast forward to today, you would imagine my shock and surprise when the Department of Justice informed the state of Texas that the 2021 congressional maps must be redrawn, citing the districts were created using, quote, race-based considerations.
		The email I provided today claims that, quote, all maps were being drawn race-blind.
		So, did the state draw all the maps in 2021 now with racial data, as the DOJ claims, or were they drawn blind to race, as was testified under oath, and it's the email before you.
		Regardless, as we sit here today, the act of dismantling districts specifically because the resulting racial makeup will be blatant active or intentional racial gerrymanding discrimination.
		The predominant use of race to justify this process will cause all of us to pay, defend illegal maps in court for years to come.
		The best way to end this and avoid that would be to end this process and focus on the real needs of the state.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Members, questions for this witness?
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair, thank you for your testimony.
unidentified		Next up at this microphone is going to be Barbara Applequist.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		If you can make your way up front, I'll show you register to testify as Jason Thomas on behalf of the NAACP of Arlington on the revised Congressional Redistricting Plan.
unidentified		Is that correct?
		That is correct.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Chair and members of the committee, my name is Jason Thomas, a resident of Tarran County, a recently elected trustee of the Manhattan ISD School Board, Director of Road and Bridge Maintenance for the Honorable Commissioner Lisa Simmons.
		But tonight, I proudly speak on behalf of the Arlington, Texas branch of the NAACP, where I serve as president.
		We at the Arlington, Texas NAACP strongly oppose this unnecessary and racially discriminatory attempt at mid-decade redistricting.
		I'm a child of a father and mother who were born in 1929 and 1939, respectively.
		Both African American, both raised under Jim Crow laws in Birmingham, Alabama, and both taught me the cost of silence in the face of injustice.
		My mother's favorite phrase, don't just sit on your stool of do nothing.
		And that's why I'm here doing something.
		They lived through poll taxes, literacy tests, and voting districts drawn to suppress their voices.
		And now, nearly 100 years later, we are witnessing those same tactics resurface under the lie of there being a process, but driven by the same intent to silence voters of color.
		This redistricting proposal targets districts where black and Latino voters have consistently elected their candidates of choice.
		This mid-decade redistricting attempts is a clear attempt to weaken the hard-won representation of black and brown Texas voters.
		Although black, brown, and Asian communities have fueled this state's population and economic growth, we continue to be excluded from the political future we've helped create.
		This mid-decade redistricting only deepens that injustice, further destroying our rights to fair and etiquette representation.
		To redraw lines mid-decade is a slap in the face of the voters of Texas who did not ask for this.
		It is also a signal to this country that Texas is right for political bullying and will ignore Texas voters.
		With the NAACP, urge you, honor the legacy of the Voting Rights Act.
		Respect the voices of the people and reject this mid-decade redistricting effort that is racially motivated, legally suspect, and morally wrong.
		We also urge you to be the politicians who serve all Texas voters and not just be a political puppet for someone outside of Texas.
		Say no to this mid-decade redistricting.
		Thank you.
		Members, any questions for this witness?
		Chair Your Sign, thank you for your testimony.
		Members witnesses excuse.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Next up at this microphone is going to be Stacey Brown.
unidentified		If you can make your way up, Chair Carls, Barbara Applewont, Applequist.
		AppleQuist.
		Applequist.
		I just defaulted for a second there.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		I apologize.
unidentified		Shall you register to testify on behalf of yourself on the revised Congressional Redistricting Plan?
		Is that correct?
		That's correct.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee for this opportunity to share my perspective.
		My name is Barbara Applequist.
		For the past two years, my husband and I have lived in Congressional District 32 in Dallas.
		And for the 36 years prior to that, we lived in Arlington and Congressional District 6, which is currently Congressional District 25.
		I'm a retired Arlington ISD high school social studies teacher.
		My concern about the current redistricting proposal is based on what I understand to have been the intention of the framers of the U.S. Constitution.
		As seen in the Federalist Papers, there was intense concern about the dangers of factions or political parties.
		Their concern was if we had political parties, the strongest ones would control government and the government would not protect equally the rights and interests of all the people.
		Instead, government would promote the interest of the majority political party.
		A quick look at the current congressional district map in Texas validates their fears.
		The current map has 25 of the 38 congressional districts favoring Republicans.
		That's a 65.8% of the districts.
		That exceeds the percentages of voters who voted Republican in the last two general elections for an advantage of two to three seats for the Republicans.
		And yet.
		And yet, here we are with the potential of redistricting with the express purpose of providing more Republican seats and thus a safer Republican majority in the U.S. Congress.
		Usually, gerrymandering is prettied up a little bit, but this is blatant.
		Out in the open.
		Partisan gerrymandering.
		It's appalling.
		That fear of the founding fathers seems alive and well in Texas.
		So I ask you, how sacred to you is the principle of one person, one vote?
		How sacred to you is the right of the people to choose their representatives and not the other way around?
		How sacred and the need of our protection is a truly representative democracy.
		Just do the right thing.
		Thank you.
		Members, any questions for this witness?
		Thank you for your testimony.
		Chair calls Stacy Brown.
		Before that, I apologize.
		This next witness over here on this microphone is going to be Richard Gonzalez.
		If you can make your way down.
		Chair calls Stacey Brown.
		Shall you register to testify on behalf of the Friendship West Baptist Church and yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan?
		Is that correct?
		Yes.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Yes.
		My name is Reverend Stacey D. Brown, and I am here on behalf of my church, my beautiful three children, my precinct 4502, which I am the chair, my sororities 8 to 5 Aether Sorority Incorporated, and my community at large, which stand in objection to this racist, unjust, and downright evil redistricting.
		In addition to these roles, I am a proud Texas girl through and through.
		I grew up on the east side of El Paso, was schooled on the campuses of Texas Southern University and Texas A ⁇ M, lived in Lubbock, and now reside and lead in Grand Prairie.
		But most of all, in addition to all these roles, I'm tired.
		I'm tired of leaders talking out the side of their necks, pretending that they promote Christian values, but really they harm the very ones which our sacred text, the Bible says, to aid and protect.
		Now, this text, I know you're familiar with it because you voted to keep the Ten Commandments in all of the classrooms.
		So allow me to give you a brief Bible study.
		Now, Matthew, allow me to give you a brief Bible study on the text you either willfully skipped or maybe just didn't understand.
		Okay.
		So Matthew 6, 21 says, for where your treasure is, there is your heart also.
		There will your heart be also.
		So rather than devote our treasury and our attention to the over 130 people that died needlessly to the flood, here we are.
		So rather than devote our treasury to the education for our children, my three sitting right here, here we are.
		So rather than devote our treasury to gun control and laws to protect the citizens of places like El Paso and Allen and the children, children of Santa Fe and Uvalde and all other places, here we are.
		Now, this teaching stands in direct and direct opposition to the teachings of the man in Galilee, you know, the one you claim to serve and follow.
		But, you know, if he was here present day, you would likely have him deported.
		So you sit at those tables, you sit at tables that Jesus would afflict and participate in activities that he would have rebuked.
		Let me be clear.
		Isaiah says, learn to do right, seek justice, defend the oppressed, take up the cause of the fatherless, and plead the cause of the widow.
		But obviously, it's you have no interest in doing that.
		And I'm going to say this in closing.
		I leave you with this.
		Galatians 6, 7 says, be not deceived.
	God is not mock.
	For whatsoever a man reapeth, or whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
	You trying to steal five seats, and you might just lose ten.
	Members, any questions for this witness?
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		The next witness at this microphone is going to be Joanna Lardoza.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		If you could...
unidentified		Cardoza.
		Cardoza, I apologize.
		You could come down here.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair calls Richard Gonzalez.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Richard Gonzalez here.
unidentified		Chairperson Richard Gonzalez registered to testify on behalf of himself on the revised congressional redistricting plan, but not testifying.
		The next witness here is going to be Armand Avila.
		If you could make your way down front, Armand Avila.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair shows you registered to testify as Joanna Cardoza on behalf of Lulac District 2.
unidentified		21.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		21, District 21, on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
unidentified		Is that correct?
		Yes.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Good evening.
		My name is Joanna Cardoza.
		I am here this, well, it used to be afternoon tonight to speak on behalf of the League of United Latin American Citizens of District 21, which covers several North Texas counties.
		Although most of Texas's population growth in the last decade has come from people of color, some of you are working very hard to silence those same communities.
		Texas deserves fair maps, not political manipulation.
		Every vote should have an equal voice in our democracy.
		This rushed and forced redistricting efforts threatens the fundamental principle.
		If Abbott is going to call a special session, it should not be to advance a political agenda.
		It should be to solve real problems.
		Texans deserve the right to choose their candidates of choice that will fight for their values and the critical needs of their communities, not a yes man or woman in D.C. Instead of this manufactured attempt to redistrict congressional maps, these are some real problems that you'll that you could be a better use of your time.
		Workforce housing each day in our community, families struggle to keep a roof above their head.
		How about invested in the next generation of leaders by fully funding public schools instead of defunding them through vouchers and continued approval of charter schools in our communities?
		How about the expansion of Medicaid to address Medicaid Medicare to address the huge health disparities among communities of color?
		Disparities such as the high maternal mortality rate and mental health needs in the Tarrant County community.
		Thank you.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Members, any questions for this witness?
unidentified		Chair Derson, thank you for your testimony.
		Chair calls, well, next one up on this side is going to be Anthony Bridges.
		If you can make it way down front, Anthony Bridges.
		Chair calls Armand Avila.
		You hear Armand Avila?
		Show him registered to testify on behalf of himself on the revised congressional redistricting plan, but not testifying.
		Next up on this microphone down here is going to be Bobby Cole.
		If you can make your way down front for Bobby Cole here, Chair is going to call Anthony Bridges.
		Whichever makes you feel comfortable.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		What's your name?
unidentified		Yeah, my name is Anthony Bridges.
unidentified		Ah, you got it.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		That's your microphone.
unidentified		Mr. Bridges, I'll show you registered to testify on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
		Is that correct?
		That's correct.
		Please give us your testimony.
		My name is Anthony Bridges, a grassroots candidate, and I say you're worried about the wrong people.
		AIPAC sponsored Democrats who spread lies to enable the slaughter of the innocent aren't your political enemy.
		I am.
		You are worried about arbitrary power and pseudo-opposition, but there are three powers that you can't control.
		The power of the people, the power of God, and the power of physics.
		Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
		The mass starvation of millions of people will have divine retribution to pay.
		And God knows who is responsible.
		God knows who profited off these crimes against humanity.
		And I look forward to the day we stop seeking political solutions to these atrocities.
		You want to redraw some lines?
		Go ahead.
		Give people another reason to feel disenfranchised and underrepresented.
		So please show everyone how rigged the game truly is so we can start playing a new one.
		Inshallah.
		Members, any questions for this witness?
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair is nine.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Bobby Cole.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Okay, one sec.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		At this microphone, if I could get James Collins.
unidentified		James Collins at that microphone.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'll show you registered to testify as Bobby Cole on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
unidentified		Is that correct?
		That is correct.
		Please give us your testimony.
		I'm Bobby Cole.
		I'm a lifelong Texan.
		I'm an East Texas farmer and a retired fireman.
		The Texas Republican Party is corrupt to the core.
		Its spineless devotion to Donald Trump is on full display with Greg Abbott being the prize pony.
		All that this blind loyalty to MAGA has brought to the people of Texas is trampled freedoms, liberties, and rights.
		Common decency and dignity that Texas used to stand for is gone.
		Replaced with cruelty and division and a way of governance not for the people, but at the behest of only the ultra-rich and the powerful.
		We are here today to testify against the naked power grab ordered by Trump himself.
		This redistricting scheme will disenfranchise hardworking black and Latino communities that deserve to be heard.
		These new maps will represent the tallest test yet for Texas Republicans in regard to what the National Republicans and Trump want.
		In trying to turn five blue districts red, you will have to bust them up and dilute the remaining Democratic vote with Republican ones.
		There is only one way to do this.
		You have to take your safe Republican districts, dilute them down with Democratic votes, and hope they remain a light pink.
		If you are Texas, if you are a Texas Republican, this makes you nervous.
		Change is coming.
		Hardworking Texans feel it.
		Democrats feel it.
		And so do Republicans who are desperate to rig the system one more time to hold on to power.
		I'm just a common, hardworking Texan who cares about his family and the legacy I will leave them.
		But I bring forth a message from the people of Texas.
		Along with change, accountability is coming for Greg Abbott and Texan Republicans.
		The people of Texas have weighed and measured your 30 years of governance, and it is found to be lacking.
		Your mouthfees, misfesiance, and non-fees is going to come home to roost.
		It doesn't matter what maps you draw or how corrupt your reasoning is to justify it.
		So do your worst because that's what you're best at.
		A reckoning is coming and the people of Texas will render it on November 3rd, 2026.
		Thank you.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Dean Thompson, for what purpose?
		Chair recognizes Dean Thompson.
		The question of witness.
unidentified		How would this redistricting impact you as a farmer?
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		What's that?
unidentified		How would this redistricting impact you as a farmer?
		Well, I mean, it really depends.
		I'm in House District 5.
		And so it just depends.
		I mean, like if you take in the cities, we're going to have different needs from the rule to the city.
		So, I mean, it would be better if our district, our House districts were drawn more to represent the common interest of the people in that district.
		Thank you.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Commissioners, any other questions?
		Hearing none?
		Thank you for your testimony.
		Chair calls James Collins.
unidentified		Is James Collins here?
		Chair Rousseau, James Collin, registered to testify on behalf of himself on the revised Congressional Redistricting Plan, but not testifying.
		Next two, if they could come up, Kristen Harden-Sigler and James Sigler.
		I apologize that that's Seigler.
		I'll give them a moment to make their way over.
		Kristen Harden-Seigler, James Seigler.
		There's no, okay.
		Chair is going to give them one more time.
		Kristen Harden-Sigler, Seigler, James Seigler.
		Hearing no response.
		Chair will show Kristen Harden-Seigler registered to testify on behalf of herself on the revised congressional redistricting plan, but not testifying.
		Chair will show James Seigler registered to testify on behalf of himself on the revised congressional redistricting plan, but not testifying.
		Next two witnesses, if they could make their way up, David Yagubian and Crystal Chisholm.
		I shall you register to testify as Crystal Chisholm on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
		Is that correct?
		I'd like to make an amendment.
		I'd like to also speak on behalf of the Texas Coalition of Black Democrats for Dallas County.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		So give me that one more time.
unidentified		Texas Coalition.
		Coalition.
		Black.
		Black Democrats.
		Democrats.
		For Dallas County.
		Of Kadema.
		Of Dallas County.
		Dallas County.
		Do I have your permission to modify your witness affirmation form accordingly?
		Yes, sir, you do.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And I show you registered to testify as Crystal Chisholm on behalf of the Texas Coalition of Black Democrats of Dallas County and yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
		Is that correct?
		Yes.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Thank you so much.
		And thank you all for coming to the Dallas-Fort Worth area for Arlington for this hearing.
		I serve also as a public servant in the beautiful city of DeSoto, which is the blackest city in Dallas County.
		As I mentioned also, I am the chair for the Texas Coalition for Black Democrats in Dallas County, and I am a combat veteran as well.
		And I will be honest.
		I'm saying this not just as an elected official, but also as a combat veteran.
		I've served two tours in Iraq, and I think that when I signed up to go fight for terrorism in early 2000, 2001, I thought, okay, terrorism, I can see it.
		It's the 9-11.
		It's the burning of the buildings.
		But when I came home, I never thought that I'd have to fight for political terrorism that's happening right in our community by the disenfranchisement of our communities and our black and brown communities.
		I appreciate a forum to have people speak their minds.
		I think it's important.
		It's a part of democracy, right?
		But I'll be honest with you.
		I've been sitting here for six hours.
		I put my card in an hour and a half before your minutes, your meeting started, and I'm looking around in this room, and I don't think you're going to be able to hear everybody.
		And that's not democracy.
		And so I ask you as leaders of this committee that you make changes for the rest of the hearing that you have and let all of us have our voice and time with you because we've sacrificed our time, we waited in parking, and we should be heard as well.
		Not to mention, there are no maps, there are no drafts, as we have heard.
		We don't even know what these lines are going to be withdrawn at, but yet we're being asked to get input on something that we don't even know.
		But here's what I do know as a fact.
		Texas is home to the highest population of black people, the highest population of black people, yet our Texas Senate, our House, and as well as our congressional districts don't look nothing like that, right?
		And so, whatever you're going to give me, I know that already we're behind the curve.
		And so, if you had not guessed, I'm totally against any type of redistricting.
		This doesn't make sense at all.
		And if I could quote, because I'm in Congressional District 30, the late Congresswoman Eddie Bernice Johnson, she said, It is really puzzling why a nation of democracy does not want to see African Americans vote.
		You begin to wonder what is the mentality of those people that have to continue to try to take us back.
		Here's what I want you to know: if nobody else can say, We're not going back.
		For those of you all who are Democrats sitting in this seat, I need to know that you got some soldiers ready to fight.
		You got some soldiers ready to raise money.
		You have some soldiers ready to organize and mobilize.
		Don't be fearful.
		Don't stand on your back.
		Don't let money be the reason why you don't well.
		You seem to be having a technical issue with our signal from this live event.
		We are working to resolve the issue, and we hope to resume our live coverage shortly.
		At the age of 18 and again at 21.
		You got it.
		Thank you.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Members, any other questions to this witness?
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair recognizes Representative Garcia.
unidentified		Question and witness.
		Look, you're just trying.
		Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
		Ma'am, I just wanted to say, as a fellow combat veteran, thank you so much for your service.
		I know things might not be understandable right now, but you know what our mission is, and our mission has never wavered.
		Thank you.
		I got you.
		Thank you.
		Members, any other questions?
		Spirit, son of witnesses, excused.
		Next up at this microphone, if I can get Tracy Scott, Tracy Scott.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair calls David Yugubian.
unidentified		Yakubian.
		Yes.
		And on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan, is that correct?
		Yes.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Hi, I'm David Yaakovian.
		First, let me share with you the words of a renowned Texas politician of old.
		Any fellow who will cheat for you will cheat against you.
		Any man who will deceive the voters during a political campaign will deceive them after he is elected.
		Does this sound familiar?
		Why are we being proposed a mid-decade redistricting?
		The president, our governor, lieutenant governor, our attorney general, they are all attempting to act like thieves in broad daylight.
		They have no moral, ethical inhibition from stealing my vote from me and stealing votes away from my neighbors.
		Remember, if your leadership will cheat for you, they will cheat against you.
		I oppose this corrupt, bad faith attempt to redistrict and diminish the voting power of me, my neighbors, and family.
		Texas has been a lifelong home, and I've never, never seen such peak corruption as I see now.
		I'll end with another quote from a legendary Texan: Every American citizen must have an equal right to vote.
		There is no reason which can excuse the denial of that right.
		There is no duty which weighs more heavily on us than the duty we have to ensure that right.
		Tread very, very carefully.
		Every Texan is watching.
		Members, any questions for this witness?
		Chair is none.
		Gentlemen's excuses.
		Thank you.
		Next up at this microphone, if I can get Ricardo Estrada, Chair calls Tracy Scott.
		Is Tracy Scott present?
		Chair Rousseau, Tracy Scott, registered to testify on behalf of I see Outreach and SELF on the revised congressional redistricting plan but not testifying.
		Next up, at this microphone, if I could have Robert Vann come down.
		Robert Vann.
		Is Ricardo Estrada here?
		Ricardo Estrada, Chair William Ricardo.
		Okay.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Chair will show him registered to testify on behalf of himself on the revised congressional redistricting plan, but not testifying.
		Is chair will call Robert Vann?
		Is Robert Vann here?
		Robert Vann, Chair will show Robert Vann registered to testify on behalf of himself on the revised congressional redistricting plan, but not testifying.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair call Kay Parr.
unidentified		Kay Parr.
		Is Ms. Parr here?
		Please come on down to this microphone.
		We'll wait for you, ma'am.
		And then if I could get Larry Davis at this microphone on our other side, Larry Davis.
		And if not, Larry Davis, then Tavita Uatafe at that microphone.
		Okay.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		I'll show you registered to testify as K Parr on behalf of yourself and the Texas Democratic County Chairs Association and the Parker County Democratic Party.
unidentified		Is that on the revised congressional redistricting plan?
		Is that correct?
		No, I think you've got the wrong person here.
		Okay, what's your name, ma'am?
		Kay Carr.
		Kay Parr?
		Carr with a K.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I have K-Parr with a P.
unidentified		Oh.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Now, the odds of that are very, very low.
unidentified		But it happens.
unidentified		Can we find her registration?
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me ask this.
		Is K par with a P?
		P-A-R-R here?
unidentified		Okay, I'll show her register to testify as K, parr with a P on behalf of herself, the Texas Democratic County Chairs Association of the Parker County Democratic Party on revised congressional redistricting plan, but not testifying.
		Now, Ms. Carr, if you'll just stay right there, we'll do everything we can to find your witness registration.
		We're going to let you testify after you've made that trip down.
		So if you just wait right there, we're going to find it.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Is Larry Davis here?
unidentified		Okay.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair calls Larry Davis.
unidentified		Show Larry Davis registered to testify on behalf of himself on the revised congressional redistricting plan, but not testifying.
unidentified		Mr. Chairman.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Vice Chair, for what purpose?
unidentified		Can we pause so I can ask a question of the chair, please?
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		Chair will pause the timer.
		Chair, will you have a question from the vice chair?
		Thank you.
		And also to allow a minute to find this witness.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
unidentified		We have another staff.
		I'd like to reiterate the request that the committee call for and receive the complete transcript of the redistricting trial that just happened in El Paso.
		Can we get that information distributed to the entire committee, please?
		I wasn't aware of that request, but I'm happy to make that request and get that forward.
		Very good.
		Thank you so much.
		So we will make a note of that for staff to request a transcript of that and provide that to the members of the committee.
		Members, any other questions?
		As we okay.
		You just wait right there.
		You own that microphone.
		Do not let anybody take that microphone from you.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Is Tavita Uatafe here?
unidentified		Send her counter.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair.
		Okay, chair calls Tavita Utafi, show registered to testify on behalf of the Tarrant County Central Labor Council on the revised congressional redistricting plan, but not testifying.
		Okay.
unidentified		I'm going to call up.
		All right.
		Ms. Carris, what are we going to do?
		Oh, great.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		You did register to testify?
unidentified		Yeah, Catherine.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'll take you.
unidentified		Look at her.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		We're going to bring you another form.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Do we have your permission once we do this form to delete your duplicate registration?
unidentified		Sure.
		God bless you.
		All right.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		He's going to come and do that for you.
unidentified		In the meantime, we're going to call up Kelly Dennison.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		It's Kelly Dennison here.
unidentified		Chair William Kelly Dennison registered to testify on behalf of herself on the revised congressional redistricting plan, but not testifying.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair calls Bruce Richardson.
unidentified		Is Bruce Richardson here?
		Chair Richell Bruce Richardson registered to testify on behalf of himself on the revised congressional redistricting plan, but not testifying.
		Chair calls Juan Chrisman.
		Is Juan Christman here?
		Chair Richard Juan Christman registered to testify on behalf of himself on the revised congressional redistricting plan, but not testifying.
		Chair calls Eprin Carrion.
		Eprin Kerrion.
		Chair Wash Eprin Kerrion registered to testify on behalf of himself on the revised congressional redistricting plan, but not testifying.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair calls Paul James.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		Thank you, Paul.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		We were waiting on you, Paul.
		And next, after Paul, will be Dr. Lindia Thomas.
		If she is here, just be ready.
unidentified		We'll keep going.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		All right.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		I'll show you registered to testify as Paul James on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
unidentified		Is that correct?
		Yes, sir.
		Please give us your testimony.
		I want to thank you all for letting me present this.
		It almost felt like I was sitting there waiting for jury duty when you're back there.
		I live on the south side of Dallas, and I'm proud to be represented by my Congresswoman, Jasmine Crockett.
		I wondered what it would be like to speak to a Republican and what they would say to voters during a MAGA gerrymandering of Texas.
		If I was a fire...
		If you were a firefighter, please get to my house quickly.
		Save my house and save my family.
		But if you're a Democrat or an Independent, we are going to water down your vote faster than Donald Trump puts on spray tan.
		If you're a teacher, please teach our children so they will grow up and be productive and smart.
		But if you're a Democrat or an Independent, we will take your vote like a banned book off the library shelf.
		If you're a policeman, please keep our towns and families safe.
		But if you're a Democrat or an Independent, we want your voice to be silenced.
		If you're a nurse, please take care of us when we are hospitalized.
		Pay attention to our condition.
		But if you're a Democrat or an Independent, we want to stifle your rights.
		What is perplexing to those of us out on the outside of politics is that we don't understand why some who worked so hard, like all of you, to get elected and serve the people of Texas, but now have to please one governor who has to serve the orange felon in the White House.
		Some Republicans have spoken out about gerrymandering.
		One said it has completely broken our political system.
		That was Newt Gingrich.
		One called gerrymandering anti-democratic and un-American.
		That was Ronald Reagan.
		In closing, I oppose redistricting in order to water down some Texans' votes.
		It should not be that Texans are cheating Texans.
		It's bad enough that we have cheating, fraud, and even worse come out of the White House.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		Members, any questions for this witness?
		Chairs, thank you for your testimony.
		All right.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		I'll show you register to testify as K, is it CARP?
unidentified		Right.
		Okay, on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan, is that correct?
		Yes, yes.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Yes, I've lived in Texas most of my life, more than 50 years, and it's good to see my District 105 Texas House rep, Terry Meza.
		Anyway, it is Governor Abbott's job to work for all Texans, not mainly for big donors, a political party, or a president.
		By placing a strictly political issue before the higher priority flood disaster and Texan safety, the governor is virtually spitting in the faces of the people he is mandated to serve.
		Before the 2020 census, my congressional district was 24, a largely urban suburban area, geographically centrally close, mainly covering Dallas and Tarrant counties.
		When legislators withdrew the district in 2021 and changed my home from District 24 to District 6, they extended it far beyond its original area.
		Boundaries now stretch from Irving to Mansfield to Palestine, so driving within our district can now exceed three hours and be hundreds of miles.
		And the issues of interest of Irving couldn't differ more from much of our new district's added territory, very rural.
		Irving has a rapidly growing population that includes a well-established school district, plus massively escalating land development in Las Colinas, home of the music factory.
		Whereas part of the new territory added in District 6 was the Wells School District, which was only recognized as recently as 2010 by the Texas Education Agency.
		Congressman Elzy, District 6 rep, isn't someone we typically see in our section of Texas.
		Is this another example of our state government legislators wanting to redraw our district boundaries without concern for all their constituents?
		And of our federal House representative not inclined to represent all of his constituents.
		It's easy to conclude that our legislators have no appetite to improve the district boundaries so as to represent all Texans.
		Therefore, it's even more egregious to solely address the politicized issue of redistricting before that of flood relief and flood infrastructure.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Please complete your testimony.
unidentified		Okay, I'm about at the end.
		Are Texas legislators showing that they don't want to accept responsibility for anything related to devastating events where people are still missing?
		It's not as if Texas lacks a surplus of funds, or would legislators rather hoard money and deny productive action, action that will vastly benefit Texans' safety and well-being now and in the future.
		Thank you.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Members, any questions for this witness?
unidentified		Chair Herson, thank you for your testimony.
unidentified		Next up at this microphone is going to be David Griggs.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		If you can make your way down front for that microphone, I'll show you register to testify as Dr. Lindia Thomas on behalf of yourself on the revised Congressional Redistricting Plan.
unidentified		Is that correct?
		Yes.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Thank you for allowing me to speak.
		And I am with House District 95, Nicole Collier, as well as Congressman Mark Beacey in 33 in Congressional District 33.
		And I'm here because I am appalled.
		I'm really, really upset at what is going on in our country.
		And it all started on January the 6th when number 47, and he was number 45 then, tried to steal our country.
		And we, as people, allowed this same individual, this convicted felon, to take control of what we take so precious as our White House.
		He's throwing out there when he's mandating you to redistrict.
		His first trial was for the United States Capitol.
		He wanted to see how far he could go with that.
		He succeeded.
		He's throwing this into Texas, where we say don't mess with Texas.
		He's trying you.
		Do not allow this man to destroy Texas.
		You have a voice.
		Someone said it earlier.
		Don't be confounded about money because money is not the issue here.
		If you want to get re-elected, you need to please the people, not number 47.
		Because number 47 time is limited.
		The people are going to be tired of being sick and tired.
		Whether you're a Democrat, whether you're a Republican, whether you're liberal, you work for the people.
		When you lose focus on the fact that you work for the people, you can start counting the days that you're going to be in office.
		So I'm here to say I am against redistricting.
		First of all, everybody has a voice, whether you agree with them or not.
		It doesn't matter where you came from or where you, because we're all aliens in this country.
		Nobody was really here but the Indians.
		So I'm asking you all, whether you're a Republican, a Democrat, or whatever, do not support this.
		Do not support this redistricting.
		It's wrong.
		And like my mom used to say, 400 wrongs don't make it right.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Members, any questions for this witness?
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair Hussain, thank you for your testimony.
unidentified		You're excuse.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Next up at this microphone over here, if we could get Nicole Raphael or Nicole Rafael, if you could come down here.
		All right, I show you register to testify as David Griggs on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
		Is that correct?
unidentified		That's correct, Mr. Chairman.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee.
		My name is David Griggs from Dallas County.
		I'm an attorney currently in private practice, a former civil prosecutor with the FTC, a longtime adjunct professor of political science at Dallas College, and currently an adjunct professor of election law at the University of North Texas Dallas College of Law.
		Today, I am here representing myself.
		It is from my experience in teaching election law specifically that I have studied the concepts of partisan gerrymandering and race and redistricting, and it is from that that I draw my comments today, opposing this mid-decade redistricting effort.
		I agree with the public comments of many of my fellow Texans who've previously testified regarding the ill-advised nature of this process.
		But the main point of why I'm here tonight is to reiterate some of the comments and testimony you've already received from other law professors and legal experts that the Department of Justice letter is a deliberate misrepresentation of case law governing these issues and should not serve as any kind of legitimate justification for the reconsideration of district lines.
		There are three cases.
		Most of you have read this letter.
		Three cases that are listed.
		First, it's Allen v. Michigan.
		This was a case that upheld the applicability of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act when Sections 4 and 5 were dissimated by the COB County versus Holder case in 2012.
		It was widely hailed as a positive case for the future of the VRA and its enforcement of Section 2.
		However, DOJ lawyers distorted dicta in a concurrence by Justice Kavanaugh to twist it around to support their concept of race-based gerrymandering and even said that it would require a compelling state interest for Texas to keep those districts.
		This is an absurd argument and a serious misreading of the majority opinion.
		The second case was Pettiway versus Galveston County.
		That was a Fifth Circuit case where the court expounded on coalition districts and what it takes to make a successful claim to challenge them.
		It does not have anything to do with the unconstitutionality of a gerrymander.
		It merely asserts that the VRA in this circuit only, the 11th, the Fifth Circuit, excuse me, the Fifth Circuit, does not allow individual racial ethnic groups to join together to claim that the maps dilute their votes.
		The circuits are split on that.
		It does not say that coalition districts are not allowed.
		And finally, the last case, Bartlett, also misrepresented.
		Mr. Griggs, one second.
		Do you have a question?
		So your time has expired, but I have a question for you.
		All right.
		I think it was asked you about Bartlett.
		I'm actually going to ask you about the last question.
		Okay, now you can answer.
		Mr. Chairman, may I answer the question?
		I think you can only answer.
		So I'm asking you the question.
		Yeah.
		To please explain the last case.
		And then I'm.
		All right.
		Thank you, Mr. Vice Chairman.
		The Bartlett case determined that a minority group must meet a numerical test of more than 50% of the population to allow what was in that case a crossover district.
		That's not what you're here to consider, and that case doesn't apply.
		It doesn't consider the permissibility of coalition districts or crossover districts.
		And it even states the following: it states that states who wish to draw crossover, or in this case, coalition districts, are free to do so where there are no other prohibitions.
		So the case was completely misrepresented.
		And my whole point is that if this was the justification for the governor's call, it is totally bogus and it has absolutely no purpose here.
		And I think you all should find another justification because it's not this.
		Thank you.
		I do have one more question, if you don't mind.
		Sure.
		I believe that the DOJ letter, besides misrepresenting the law, and remember, I'm a lawyer.
		I'm an engineer, not a lawyer, so I need advice.
		But it is my understanding that what they are asking us to do is actually illegal.
		That is correct.
		Can you please help me understand that?
		Sure.
		Well, the Supreme Court, by the way, has not weighed in on the Pettyway case.
		You've got to understand that.
		It's only in the Fifth Circuit, and the circuits are split.
		And so, if you look at all of case law, it is not likely that the Supreme Court is going to take the Pettyway, which is really what they are putting here.
		That's the only reason they wrote it, is because there was a 2024 decision that was a circuit decision.
		It wasn't even the entire country.
		And they're assuming that the Supreme Court is going to take that.
		Well, even if they do, there is other case law which says that you cannot do this.
		You cannot take districts that were drawn that were race blind and then use a race-based theory to undo them.
	Even our Attorney General has testified that it was legal.
	And actually disputed.
	So you're right.
	I got it.
	So the Attorney General has backed up this claim.
	But let me just boil this down into something that my people understand.
	You know, you've got to realize that.
	The DOJ letter claims that districts were drawn on the basis of race, which is untrue according to the people that drew them in the first place.
	And the DOJ letter then says on the basis of race, you are to go after these particular districts, which is unconstitutional.
	Right, right.
	Help me make that make sense.
	The whole premise of this letter is wrong.
	And it was written by probably someone who had not passed the bar.
	And if you remember, Professor Katz testified to you all that if she had graded a paper that was written anything like this, she would have given that student a very bad grade.
	Thank you very much.
	And as a former civil prosecutor for the Federal Trade Commission and keeping my interest in doing great work for the federal government, it is an embarrassment to read something like this.
	Thank you for bringing the expertise.
	Thank you, Vice Chairman.
	Members, any other questions for this witness?
	Chair Zon, thank you for your testimony.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		At this microphone, can I get Kendall Locke?
unidentified		Kendall Locke, I'll show you registered to testify as Nicole Raphael on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
		Is that correct?
		That's correct.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Sure thing.
		God bless you all.
		Thank you all for being here in the city of Arlington, North Texas.
		We appreciate that.
		I appreciate that.
		As a former elected official in the city of DeSoto, I was located or I live, my city, and I live in District 109 where our freshman Aisha Davis is my state rep. I appreciate that.
		As well as I live in Congressional District 30, where Jasmine Crockett is my congresswoman, and I appreciate that.
		I'm coming before you today concerned about the governor's July 9th directive to pursue the revised congressional redistricting plan mid-decade.
		As someone who has worked closely with residents, community leaders, and city staff, I've seen firsthand how policy and representation directly impacts people's lives, particularly as the 2020 chair for the city of DeSoto and seeing how redistricting and its purposes really do affect people's lives.
		Now, in District 30, it is a strong home for those who are civically engaged, black and Latino, populations who live in our community.
		It's a community that's built in faith, generational wealth, and advocacy for fair housing, education, healthcare, access, voting rights.
		Any efforts to redraw its lines without any clear justification or public input in both is both reckless and deeply disrespectful for those of us who really care about our community, care about law, care about being a resident here in Texas.
		What's most alarming is the lack of transparency.
		And as of today, the public has not been shown any purpose maps, proposed maps.
		The reasons behind the redistricting remain vague.
		You've heard all the things, and I agree with every single individual who's come here today.
		But what I want to be clear about is that in District 30, it has earned its voice, particularly as it was carved out specifically, I mean, initially by our late and great Eda Bernice Johnson.
		I want you to know that we won't accept being silenced through political maneuvering.
		We want to stand firm and we will stand firm in resolving this issue, doing whatever we need to do to make certain that we're heard, that you hear us.
		And I want to strongly urge you to halt the process until the public is properly informed.
		The maps are released.
		The interests of the communities of colors like ours in DeSoto and across the southern Dallas County are fully protected, fully protected, fully protected.
		But for you, as elected leaders, you have a tall order.
		Here in the state of Texas, it seems like there's a different voice for those of you who are small city versus bigger city.
		And I want to give you a few words that might help you.
		Please finish your testimony.
		Thank you.
		Don't tread on us.
		So when you go and share this information with others, don't tread on us.
		That's a racist trope that I've heard in the past, but it's something that might mean something for the smaller cities or representatives who represent smaller areas in Texas.
		One of the things that I fear is that small, not small, but small city representatives versus big city representatives have a bigger voice in our city, and that can't continue.
		That cannot continue.
		So thank you for listening.
		Members, any questions for this witness?
		Chairs, thank you for your testimony.
		And then at this microphone, if I could get Andy Laiolette.
		Okay.
		I apologize if I said that wrong.
		Chair calls Kendall Locke.
		Shall you register to testify on behalf of yourself on the revised Congressional Redistricting Plan?
		Is that correct?
		On behalf of myself and Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett.
		Okay, I'll be.
		Technically, since she is an individual, I don't know if he can testify on behalf of an individual.
		Hypertechnically, under the rules, I think it's only.
		Can he testify on behalf of the Congresswoman's office?
		Yeah, okay.
		Okay.
		The committee has conferred and agreed.
		Now, can I change your registration to say that you're testifying on behalf of the Office of Congressman Crockett, Congresswoman Crockett?
		Yes.
		Okay.
		engineer playing with long Okay, I Shall you register to testify as Kendall Locke on behalf of the Office of Congresswoman Crockett and yourself on the revised Congressional Redistricting Plan?
		Is that correct?
		Yes.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Thank you, Mr. Chair, and Mr. Vice Chair, members of the Well, you seem to be having a technical issue with our signal from this live event.
		We are working to resolve the issue, and we hope to resume our live coverage shortly.
		Official commitments, I thought it's best or would be best that I pick up where she left off.
		Let's call this what it is, a power grab.
	This proposed redistricting of congressional districts across the state isn't about fairness.
	It's not about equal representation.
	It's not even about righting the wrongs of this state and its state legislature when it comes to giving people of color in this state a voice.
	It's about securing political advantage at the direct expense of historically underrepresented communities.
	Specifically with regard to Texas 30, it's a district that has long been a stronghold for communities of common interest.
	Black, Hispanic, AAPI, working-class families across South and West Dallas, other cities like DeSoto, Duncanville, Lancaster, Glen Heights, just to name a few, who all share deep cultural, economic, and social ties.
	Our district is reflective of who they are, who those people are.
	It amplifies their voice, and that's exactly why it's being targeted along with other districts.
	To break apart Texas 30 or any other majority-minority district across this state is to fracture communities that has consistently fought for every inch of representation in which it has.
	Let me be clear.
	The people in these districts aren't just voters in a map.
	They are our neighbors, our churches, small business owners, and generations of Texans bound by shared values and shared challenges.
	Disrupting communities of common interest is not just bad policy.
	It's a direct violation of redistricting principles that I would hope you uphold and a betrayal of the trust Texans place in you as our elected state leaders to steward this process.
	This redistricting attempt isn't neutral.
	It's surgical.
	It's going to slice through community lines to protect outside interests, not constituents, to secure extreme control, not public service.
	I urge you, do not rubber stamp a map that silences communities.
	Don't dismantle districts that have long provided an actual voice for people in the U.S. House.
	And as for Texas 30.
	And as for Texas 30, let me be very clear.
	It's working, it's united, it's representative, and it should remain untouched.
	Let's focus on the people, their voices, and their interests, because at the end of the day, that's what matters most.
	Thank you so much.
	Members, questions for the witness.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chairs, thank you.
unidentified		You're excused.
		This microphone next, if I can get Latrina Lamkin.
		Latrina Lamkin at that one.
		Chair calls Andy Laulette.
		La Violette.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		La Liolette.
unidentified		La Violette.
unidentified		Okay.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		On behalf of yourself.
unidentified		On revised congressional.
		That's a pretty cool name, I got to say.
		Thank you.
		On behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan, is that correct?
		Yes.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Thanks.
		So my wife, my daughter, and I are all registered voters in Denton, Texas.
		You know, I think that a lot of what has been said today is so brilliant and beautifully put, and I won't restate so many of the things that we've heard here today.
		But I think it comes down to just sort of accurate and fair representation and the problem of where our government has gone to on bending to the will of Donald Trump and not being able to stand up for what's right.
		And regardless of what party we're affiliated with, I would hope that the overall goal of the districts that are being put together on maps are to accurately reflect the will of the people.
		And so I would hope that everyone that sits on this committee, when it comes time for that vote, for you to exercise the power that you have, for you to take a moment and to reconsider that you have the ability to stand up to the Trump administration and to Greg Abbott and to what they're asking you to do.
		This can be your moment, even if your party is not the Democratic Party.
		If you're part of the Republican Party, this can be your moment to stand up and to stand out and show your constituents that you are willing to vote for what's right and to do what's right and to help us create a society that gives accurate representation of people.
		So I hope that you consider that.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Members, questions for the witness.
unidentified		Chair President, thank you for your testimony.
		Chair calls Latrina Lampkin.
		Latrina Lampkin.
		Chair Scholar Jr. Lamkin registered to testify on behalf of herself on the revised congressional redistricting plan but not testifying.
		Chair calls Christopher Erickson.
		Christopher Erickson.
		Chair Rousseau, Christopher Erickson registered to testify on behalf of himself on the revised congressional redistricting plan but not testifying.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair calls Tiggis Solomon.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Tiggis Solomon or Tigis Solomon.
unidentified		Chair Rousseau, Tiggis Solomon registered to testify on behalf of himself on the revised congressional redistricting plan but not testifying.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair calls Jeremy Matthews.
unidentified		Mr. Matthews, make your way down to that microphone.
		Chair will ask Campolo if you could make your way down to that other microphone.
		I show you registered to testify as Jeremy Matthews on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
		Is that correct?
		That's correct.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Greetings, Committee.
		My name is Jeremy Matthews.
		I live in Plano, Texas, in Congressional District 3.
		I am against this redistricting, and I would like to make three points.
		My first point is addressed to the Republicans on this committee.
		The redistricting effort is a flagrant abuse of power.
		Texas's representation in Congress is already distorted in favor of your party.
		In the past three presidential elections, the Republican presidential ticket has been favored by Texans by only low to mid-50s percentages.
		Yet Republicans currently occupy 66 percent of Texas's congressional seats.
		The President is asking for five more Republican seats, which would result in the party occupying 79 percent of these seats.
		The difference between the statewide voting percentages with the current representation to possibly nearly 80 percent Republican occupation is obscene.
		It is not even Republicanism.
		The Texas Republic, Texas public, is not being truly represented and will be even less so if this redistricting goes through.
		My second point is addressed to the Democrats on the committee.
		I truly appreciate your opposition to this redistricting effort.
		But please, can we stop with the talk of breaking quorum?
		Breaking quorum is not what the public elected you to do.
		You were not elected to be absent.
		It is very understandable to want to break quorum, and if you do, please do not flee the state or go into hiding.
		I think it is better to stand up for what you believe here in Texas than to flee.
		My third point is addressed to the whole committee, but probably more so to the Republicans, because I think the Democrats might be more on board with the following.
		I think an independent redistricting body is in order.
		I think Texas's congressional seats are the people's seats.
		They are not political party seats.
		All of you are in public service, and I commend you for caring about the future of Texas.
		However, this redistricting is not public service.
		It is political party service.
		Fair district lines lead to fair representation, a principle on which our country was founded.
		Let's please act on that principle.
		Thank you for your time.
		Members, questions to the witness.
		Cheers, thank you for your testimony.
		Next up at this microphone, if I can get Jan McDowell.
		Jan McDowell.
		Chair calls Allison Campolo.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		I'll show you register to testify on behalf of the Tarrant County Democratic Party on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
unidentified		Is that correct?
		That's correct.
		I'm so glad you can read my handwriting.
		It's really bad.
		I got you.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Of course.
		Members of the committee, my name is Dr. Allison Campolo.
		I'm the chair of the Tarrant County Democratic Party, where we are now.
		I had a whole cool, really eloquent, I'm really smart, I had a really eloquent thing written out.
		But like, we've been here for seven hours, so I've had time to percolate.
		So I'm just going to monologue a little bit.
		Obviously, stop me when I'm done.
		Okay.
		So I'm more like talking to the audience.
		Anybody watching the live stream and our Democratic House members, thank you.
		Bless you.
		You're wonderful.
		Like I said, we've been here all night.
		I know our House members have had a lot of long nights.
		Thank you.
		Thank you for staying for people.
		No matter how many there are.
		You're wonderful.
		I think I represent a lot of Texans, a lot of people who come out here.
		I think I'm just like them.
		I work a full-time job.
		Then I work another full-time job being chair of the party.
		I have three kids that are all under four now.
		I mean, life is hard.
		And we're here at 10.30 p.m.
		Like, holy crap.
		And obviously, you guys have seen that all across the state as you've been going around, right?
		Like, you have way more people coming to testify than you have time to sit here.
		And man, I've got to tell you, that's a message for 2026.
		Like, what's coming, guys?
		Like.
		So, you know, one of the things, I still have a green light.
		I'm going to keep going.
		All right.
		So one of the things that really stuns me, one of the things I wrote down is like, what stuns me about this body undertaking this action is that it undercuts everybody, not just Democrats, not just people of color.
		It systematically carves up the urban areas to dilute them with rural voters, right?
		So you're ruining everyone's chance to have fair representation.
		Nobody is fairly represented.
		And I just want to say, and I know I'm running out of time, I'm so sorry, we will remember who stood for democracy and who bowed down to political pressure.
		You will dilute your own Republican districts with our numbers, and your congressional members will lose their seats in droves because, look at this, it's like midnight.
		And when the legal challenges come up, as they will, and when the voters rise up, and they will, the shame of this blatant gerrymander will be forever tied to your names.
		Members, any questions for the witness?
		Chair is done.
		Thank you for your testimony.
		Next up at this microphone, if I can get Michaela Watkins at that microphone.
		Is Jan McDowell here?
		Okay, Chair calls Jan McDowell.
		Chair will show Jan McDowell registered to testify on behalf of herself under a revised congressional redistricting plan, but not testifying.
		Chair calls Michaela Watkins.
		Mikaela Watkins.
		Chair will show Mikaela Watkins register to testify on behalf of Ms. Watkins.
		Okay, take your time.
		All right.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		If I could get Chris Wood at this microphone over here.
unidentified		Chris Wood at that microphone.
		Okay.
		I'll show you register to testify as Michaela Watkins on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
		Is that correct?
		Yes, sir.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Good evening, Mr. Chairman, committee members, and fellow outraged Texans.
		My name is Michaela Watkins, and I am a resident of Congressman BC's 33rd District.
		Ladies and gentlemen, complacency and lack of integrity landed us here, and I find it incredibly disheartening to look upon some of the faces on the dais and see soullessness and disinterest in your eyes as we feel for not only our voting rights, but our human rights.
		What we are seeing and experiencing is the effect of spineless leadership that has placed us under and further in the line of fire of fascist rule.
		As we know, this racially motivated redistricting attempt would have immense adverse effects on our black and brown communities.
		This reactionary violation of the Voting Rights Act is an acknowledgement of our growth and our power within these historic and beautiful communities.
		The felon in chief and his incompetent cronies are afraid of our voting power, and they are afraid of our growth.
		That growth, that power, it reminds them of their ineptitude and lack of deservingness to occupy such prestigious and once-respected offices.
		In a time where we should be significantly more concerned with the near 150 lives lost in Kirk County and the negligence that led to it, we find our leaders moving the goalpost.
		In a time when we should be working to improve the inefficient, ineffective power grid that simply cannot handle the growth and infrastructure of our great state, we instead must face the abnormality of a mid-decade voter suppression attempt at our fiscal expense, the taxpayers.
		When a caveat is repeatedly reiterated that the lines were drawn blind to race, yet the integrity to provide transparency on said maps is non-existent, I would respectfully request that you not insult our intelligence by playing in our faces.
		Neutrality is no longer an option.
		Silence is no longer an option.
		It's time to fight, and I would be remiss if I did not remind each of you, these distinguished representatives present, that your constituents are watching.
		Your jobs are on the line.
		And before you is a crowd of proud Texans who will not stand for the blatant dilution of our districts, I implore you to be reminded that the felonious predator that holds office at Mar-a-Lago with the occasional visit to Pennsylvania Avenue is an egomaniacal self-preservationist.
		You bowing to him will not provide you proximity to his abuse of power, but be mindful because that power cannot vote you out.
		Our power can.
		May God bless you to stand on the side of justice and may God continue to bless and protect the great state of Texas.
		Thank you.
		Members, any questions for the witness?
		Arizona witnesses excuse me.
		I apologize.
		Representative Wood, have you got a question for you?
		Okay.
		Okay.
		You need to ask it now?
		I would like to.
		Okay.
		Chair, we have questions.
		Representative Wu, for what purpose?
		Thank you, Mr. Chair.
		How much time is left?
		From what I see here, we have about 10 minutes.
		Okay.
		Thank you.
		And the clock has paused, correct?
		The clock is paused.
		So this is the last of our public hearings.
		Currently scheduled.
		Currently scheduled, correct?
		That is correct, of the ones currently scheduled.
		Have any other hearings been scheduled?
		Not yet, but they will be.
		Okay.
		So in the first two hearings, I asked you at the beginning of each hearing whether you have reviewed a map or have someone talk to you about a map or if you or your staff has looked at a map that somebody has provided them and you have said no to both of those questions.
		The only one I've seen is that one that was posted online that we talked about previously and I have not since then no revision to my previous statement.
		And so my question to you is I would assume that that has not changed.
		You have not looked at a map that someone else has provided you other than that one.
		That's correct.
		That was just uploaded by the public.
		Correct.
		Your staff and anyone who works for you has also not looked at a map and not seen a proposed map of any kind?
		There was one that was uploaded that may have been seen that was in the same portal.
		I can't remember if it was the same one as the first one or another, but nothing beyond what has been put into that public portal.
		And I haven't looked at any of the others since that first one.
		And I also asked you whether you have contacted Governor Abbott to see what is at top of mind of his rationale for why he put a mid-cycle redistricting on the call for the special session.
		Do you remember?
	I have not.
	And has that changed?
	Not since we last spoke.
	And no one on your staff has spoken to the governor or somebody on the governor's staff or somebody who works for the governor or represents the governor about any map.
	No.
	Okay.
	We have now, there's only 10, as you said, there's only 10 minutes left of this hearing.
	In the last three hearings, I want to assume that 99% of this hearing is basically concluded.
	We've heard from several hundred witnesses at least.
	At the beginning of the last hearing, I asked you if you had in mind what you plan to do and what kind of map you plan to draw.
	And you said you did not have anything in mind as of yet.
	Now, almost all the hearing has been done.
	In your mind, do you have an idea of what you propose to do or what type of map or what kind of changes you intend to make?
	No.
	Okay.
	So at the beginning of this process, you told us that because you did not know and do not know what the governor wants, why he put this on the call.
	and you have not contacted him or asked him why, and you said that the purpose that you're all we're doing here is to see how the public feels about the current maps.
	Is that a fair statement, a summary?
	Perhaps a fair summary of the first phase of this is to generally hear from the public about whether to do redistricting, and if so, what are some of the things they'd like to see changed or not changed?
	Absolutely.
	And in my attendance of these hearings and listening to the witnesses, let's just say in a very unofficial way that roughly 99% of the witnesses testified against this, against a second district.
	Would that be fair?
	I have not done the.
	The testimony that's been given, I haven't done an analysis.
	I mean, a lot have been opposed.
	So I think that's an overwhelming majority.
	Fair.
	Fair.
	From the testimony given, yes.
	Now, additionally, I have asked you in the prior hearings whether you have reviewed any kind of population data, census data.
	or any revised data dealing with population changes or anything like that.
	And you also said you have not reviewed any kind of data like that.
	Has that changed?
	That has not changed.
	Okay.
	So you have also said that you would let us know when a map comes out, when you have the idea of what you want to do.
	And right now, you're telling us, as of this moment, you don't have anything in mind, correct?
	Nothing specific.
	So if a map does come out, you're saying that there's nothing in your mind at this moment.
	Is there anything during this process that makes you think of what you would like to do from hearing the people talk?
	No, not at this time, other than I want to go and review the written comments that were submitted into the public portal as well.
	Because as you know, this is just one of many other forms that have been done.
	So I know that two of those have been summarized, I think, that are on the committee's website right now.
	And of course, the public portal for this hearing doesn't close until this hearing is over with.
	So we've done this for three hearings now.
	We've been across about almost a week's worth of time.
	And after all this, you don't have any idea.
	You don't have anything in mind of what you want to do.
	My question is: sort of, is this plan going to spring forth from your head like Athena from Zeus fully formed at some point?
	My intention is to review the testimony.
	Pretty much, I've obviously been hearing the testimony.
	Sure.
	And we've got 10 more minutes here tonight.
	And I want to review that submitted comments.
	That'll probably be tomorrow that I do that.
	Do you suspect that after you have reviewed the written testimony, after you've finished listening to the last 10 minutes of the in-person testimony, are you going to have a time where you're going to discuss with us, with the entire room, what your thoughts are and what their thoughts are before you draw the map?
	I don't know right now.
	I don't know.
	You don't know?
	Were you planning to work with the members of this committee?
	My intention is: if a map is filed, that will come to this committee for public hearing, it will come to this committee for debate and for feedback and input by all the committee members.
	So what you're saying is somebody else is going to submit the map and you will be told when that is.
	I don't know what we're going to do yet.
	Do you file a map or not?
	Are you intending, is it your intent to submit a map yourself, or are you simply waiting for someone else to submit the map?
	I don't definitely know right now whether I'm going to file one or someone else will.
	Thank you.
	You're welcome.
	Members, any other questions?
	Mr. Chairman.
	Mr. Turner, for what purpose?
	Just a follow-up question.
	Chair Yilson for the Chair.
	Yes.
	Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
	Just to follow up on Mr. Wu's conversation with you just now.
	So to be clear, you've said you haven't seen a map and you are not drawing a map presently.
	I'm not drawing a map, President.
	Okay.
	And have you, you said you haven't heard from anyone about a map.
	Have you heard any indication, say, from the governor's office or the White House, that a map is coming?
	I have not heard from the governor's office or the White House.
	Okay.
	Has anyone else indicated that a map is coming?
	There's been maps submitted, of course, that people have indicated they put online.
	And I haven't worked on one yet.
	I may, that may change.
	I'm going to review the testimony today, and particularly the written comments that are done.
	I'll review those tomorrow, and that may change.
	Okay, to clarify my question, have any members of the legislature suggested to you that they'll be filing a map?
	No member of the legislature has told me that they are going to definitively file a map.
	I'm sure that individuals probably have ideas, but no one has told me I'm going to file a map.
	Okay.
	So right now, you're not aware of any?
	Basically, the stage I'm at right now is I want to gather all the testimony.
	I'm going to review the written comments tomorrow and see what we do next.
	Okay.
	And I think that's basically it.
	That's a perfectly reasonable position.
	And I would just, and I know your previous statements on the record, which I appreciate, that anything we do, if we do anything, and it's still an option not to do anything.
	Sure.
	Anything you do, you said you would want to make sure it complies with the Constitution and the Voting Rights Act.
	Yes.
	And I would just observe the complexity of just those two things and then the complexity of drawing a statewide congressional map is very detailed, very time-consuming.
	So is it reasonable to conclude we won't be seeing a map really anytime soon because it sounds like there's not any maps under development right now?
	I don't know on the exact timing of that.
	But what I can commit to you is that if a map is filed, we're going to have a public hearing on it and every member of this committee will have an opportunity to provide feedback and involve input into that process.
	That has been my commitment this entire time.
	I believe as I mentioned at the first hearing that we're going to take this in a two-phase process.
	As we sit here right now tonight, you're not aware of any maps being filed as a bill for the committee's consideration?
	Not right now.
	Thank you.
	Thank you, Mr. Turner.
	Dean Thompson, for what purpose?
	I can ask a question for the chair.
	Chair Yilson for questions.
	Will the committee be privy to reviewing along with the chair the written statements that the chair will be reviewing?
	Sure.
	Dean Thompson, good question.
	The statements that I have referred to that I have seen, when you go onto the committee's website and you go to our page and you click meetings, each of the committee hearings has a notice which is in text and in PDF.
	On the right-hand side, you'll see what I believe is a column marked.
	Let me give you the exact answer, Dean Thompson.
	I was looking just a while ago to see what the status of that was.
	So, if I go to our committee page and I go to Congressional Redistricting Select and I click Meetings, on the right-hand side is a PDF marked comments.
	And so, those are some of the comments that I will be going through.
	We have comments posted for 724 and 726.
	We do not have any comments posted for 728.
	I don't know how many or if any are in there.
	We won't know that until that portal closes after this hearing.
	And I would assume those would be either linked there tonight or tomorrow morning.
	How would you be evaluating the public testimony?
	Just like I do all public testimony, read it, comprehend it, see what the general themes are, and whether or not there's anything specific to take into account.
	Okay.
	Thank you, Dean.
	Members, any other questions?
	Chair recognizes Representative Gerbin-Hawkins.
	I've assumed a question of the chair.
	I do have a question.
	I yield for such questions.
	Mr. Chair, you know, based on reading of the notes, based on the three hearings and the concern that the community has raised, is there a possibility that you would recommend to the governor not to proceed with any maps?
	You have my word that I will evaluate that tomorrow.
	I don't know.
	I'm not going to give you a definitive answer right now, but I will evaluate that tomorrow based on all the comments.
	I mean, that is obviously one of the scenarios.
	So, my final question is that, so the citizens who spend so much of their time and effort, is it possible, is it possible or is it impossible that indeed there could be a recommendation to this committee, this full committee, to take a vote on if maps should be drawn or not?
	I think to that specific question, if no map is heard in this committee, then that effectively means that there will be no map on that basis, Representative Gerburn Hawkins.
	I don't think a formal vote is necessary to the committee on that point, but if no map comes forward, there is no map.
	Thank you, Mr. Chair.
	Thank you, Ms. Gerbin-Hawkins.
	Vice Chair Rosenthal, for what purpose?
	Chair, yield for a couple of questions.
	Chair, we yield for a couple questions.
	Thank you.
	Do you have a ballpark idea of the number of comments that have been submitted online?
	I can give you the exact, well, I can give you the number for the two, if you look at that for the record.
	The number of comments that were submitted, or I would say received, that it shows in the system for the July 24th hearing was 1,071 comments.
	And, well, let me actually hang on.
	There's two under that, and I think maybe Spanish language comments.
	So, I guess you would add those together: 1,073.
	The number of comments submitted for the last hearing, and what I haven't done, Vice Chair Rosenthal, is to determine whether these numbers are cumulative or have to be added together, right?
	I'd have to ask, honestly, I'd have to ask the committee gurus how this data comes.
	I'm assuming my assumption would be that these are additional comments.
	And if so, then there were 1,335 additional comments for the July 26th hearing in English and three in Spanish.
	So, depending on whether they're cumulative or yeah, that could mean there's 2,300, or it could mean that there's only 1,300 if we stick at it together.
	Thank you for doing accurate, Matt.
	I don't know if that was accurate or not.
	That was top of mind, roughly, roughly thereabouts.
	And then over the course of these three hearings, we've had in the neighborhood 2,000 people register.
	Is that about right?
	We had, what was it?
	We had about 200 at the first hearing.
	We had about a little over 750.
	I didn't know quite where we exactly landed.
	That will be in the minutes, but we haven't approved those yet.
	we've done the ones from the first hearing.
	We seem to be having a technical issue with our signal from this live event.
	We are working to resolve the issue, and we hope to resume our live coverage shortly.
	I don't know.
	Several hundred registered today.
	So I'm not asking for an exact number, but would it be fair to say 600 or 700 in that neighborhood?
	Let's say at least 500 or 600.
	So you're looking at 1,500 people that took time out of their lives to come, speak in front of us, to register.
	And then because of the limited nature of the number of hours that we have had for these, we've offered this portal for folks to submit comments online.
	And there are either one or 2,000 more.
	And an unknown possible additional set right for tonight's close until the hearing is done.
	So to my recollection, over the course of all these hearings, we had like one person come up with a microphone and say, I strongly want this to happen.
	That's my recollection.
	I think there were a handful.
	I don't know the exact number, a handful.
	It was more than one, but a handful.
	I would say that to your point that I would expect you to make, there were more against.
	Yeah, so when we say more against, it's like a thousand to one.
	So I'll be interested in what that happens.
	So here's what the whole line of questioning leads up to is if the stated purpose of this set of hearings is to elicit input from the people of the state of Texas as to their opinion as to whether or not we should even engage in this process, because that's all we can talk about right now.
	We haven't looked at a map.
	Well, engage in the process or if, for example, we've had testimony about if you do it, then do this.
	For example, we had several testimony tonight.
	And you remember, I think your favorite witness in Houston was the gentleman who came up with the hexagon thing.
	Right.
	Okay, so you had testimony about if you're going to do it, do it this way.
	Yeah, we had a whole conversation of area versus perimeter.
	And while I can get into that, yeah, sure, fair.
	So if you, after prepondering all of this evidence, find an overwhelming sentiment expressed to us by the people of Texas that they don't want us to do it, would that lead you to actually not do it?
	They don't live here.
	We live.
	They don't do it.
	I intend to make that decision over the next couple days.
	But that is absolutely a factor.
	Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
	Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair.
	Speaker Moody, for what purpose?
	Just a couple questions of the Chair.
	Chair William for questions.
	I know that I think either yesterday or early today you extended an invitation to the individual who wrote the letter for the Department of Justice that kind of set this process in motion.
	I appreciate you doing that.
	And I assume we still haven't heard back from them during the pendency of this hearing.
	Speaker Moody, I haven't checked my email box, but I'll get back to you tomorrow about that.
	But no, I have not received a formal response to that other than the out-of-office message.
	Okay, I appreciate that.
	I know we're working on a short timeline.
	I'd like to focus on the recipients of that letter, both the governor's office and the attorney general's office.
	I'd like to request that in any subsequent hearing that the chair also extend an invitation to the proper party within either of their offices since the governor's office certainly took note of it and that's why there's a item on the call.
	I think it would be important for this committee to hear what they took from it and why it's on the call and why it's here and what their what their constitutional issues think they think we have to address.
	And the Attorney General actually engaged in conversation, at least in written communication with the DOJ.
	And I think it would be important for this committee to hear that as well.
	And that would be the request I'd make of the chair.
	Honestly, Mr. Speaker, I'll take that under advisement and view that tomorrow.
	Thank you.
	Members, any other questions?
	Chair Sun, we'll go back to our witnesses for public testimony.
	I believe, let's see.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Meg Schustler?
unidentified		Chris Wood.
unidentified		Chris Wood.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Is Meg Schustler here?
unidentified		Okay, if you could take that microphone, if you don't mind, we'll come to you in just a second.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		I show you register to testify as Chris Wood on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
unidentified		Is that correct?
		That is correct.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Governor Abbott only agreed to include redistricting on his agenda after a phone call from President Trump.
		Obviously, Governor Abbott was bullied by Trump.
		My dearly departed brother is also named Greg Abbott.
		And my brother, Greg Abbott, a student of history and an avid follower of politics, taught me, and he taught me well, always stand up to a bully.
		Standing up to a bully weakens the bully and strengthens the one being attacked.
		Trust me, Governor Abbott, you will sleep well after standing up to your bully.
		Join me and my dearly departed brother, Greg Abbott, in heaven, as we say, give me liberty or give me death.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Members, questions for the witness.
unidentified		Chair Zunn, thank you for your testimony.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		At this microphone, next, if I can get Joseph Schusler, if you would come up.
unidentified		Okay.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		I'll show you registered testify.
unidentified		Oh, we got a husband and wife do again.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Obviously, she's going to beat you, right?
unidentified		Okay.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair shows you register to testify as Meg Schustler?
unidentified		I am.
		On behalf of yourself on the revised Congressional Redistricting Plan.
		Is that correct?
		It is.
		All right.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Good evening.
		My name is Meg Schustler, and I'm a Texas public school teacher.
		And I teach federal and Texas government.
		In fact, Kendall Locke was one of my students.
		The fact that we're holding these hearings in 25 tells me that, well, somebody wasn't paying attention in government class.
		And so I'm here to correct some problems and misconceptions you might have in the system.
		So it's going to just be real quick.
		It'll be three quick lessons.
		Our first one is about the Constitution.
		You know our plan of government?
		It lays the foundation for redistricting under Article 1, Section 2.
		You know, representatives are among the states based on that census.
		It's meant to reflect population and not to give a party edge in an election, especially in the midterm.
		This is a really rare moment, and it should never be used as a political weapon.
		Lesson number two.
		In 2021, Texas officials stood before the federal court in Lou Lack v. Abbott and argued that those maps were racial neutral.
		For four years, it's gone on, and now these same officials are claiming that the DOJ's concerns justify redrawing, while telling the same court that those concerns are off base.
		That's not legal consistency, it's political strategy, and it undermines our public trust.
		And lesson three, and the most important thing that I can leave with you all tonight, is that these maps should reflect real communities and the people that they represent.
		They shouldn't be set up to silence us.
		I teach my students that their voices matter, no matter where they live, what they look like, or who they voted for.
		But this process sends the opposite message.
		It tells them that the power matters more than the people, that manipulation is acceptable, and that democracy is optional.
		This is a power grab.
		It's wrong.
		And if you're still in favor of redistricting mid-decade, someone clearly failed government class and is ill-equipped to hold public office.
		But I'll say this.
		I'm actually a really good teacher.
		Again, that's my student.
		I'm going to offer you guys some extra credit.
		Adopt an independent redistricting commission like Michigan or Arizona.
		These models increase transparency, they reduce bias, and they help restore public trust.
		And this is something you are severely lacking at this moment.
		If you didn't notice the thousand people who are opposed to this, you're missing out on the message that we've all been trying to tell you.
		So, your assignment, because a good teacher leaves you with an assignment.
		I want you to follow the Constitution.
		Ten years is 10 years, and 2025 isn't time for a census.
		Do the right thing for your constituents, for democracy, and for my students.
		Class dismissed.
		Members, questions for the witness?
		Chair is on what is his excuse?
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair calls Joseph Hussler.
unidentified		So you register to testify on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional registration plan.
		Is that correct?
		Yes, sir.
		Please give us your testimony.
		Okay.
		First off, don't follow your wife.
		Good evening, committee members.
		My name is Dr. Joseph Schustler.
		As a business professor, I stand before you today.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Schustler, I think that microphone might be a little finicky.
		Raise it up.
		Let's do it better.
		There, that's perfect.
unidentified		Please give us your testimony.
		Good evening, committee members.
		My name is Dr. Joseph Schustler.
		As a business professor, I stand before you today to oppose this mid-census congressional redistricting.
		This effort is profoundly inappropriate.
		Redistricting is constitutionally mandated after each decennial census using accurate population data.
		Doing it now with outdated 2020 census figures ignores Texas's significant non-white population growth.
		This isn't about fairness.
		It's a blatant partisan power grab.
		As a voter historically aligned with Republican values, I must say I feel profoundly abandoned by my party.
		Their sudden embrace of DOJ claims about racially drawn districts directly contradicts their own past offenses.
		This is a transparent ploy to gain partisan seats, slicing out black and Hispanic communities and diluting their voting strengths.
		Our current districts, as drawn, already fail to reasonably reflect their constituents, especially given our state's diverse growth.
		Such politically motivated actions ignore established process, erode public faith in our government, and undermine our democracy.
		I urge this committee to immediately halt these mid-census efforts.
		The established constitutional process for redistricting is after the decennial census, and adhering to this constitutionally mandated process is absolutely necessary.
		Texas needs nonpartisan redistricting achieved through an independent commission insulated from political influence, ensuring fair maps for all Texans.
		Let us choose a path that strengthens our democracy, not one that diminishes it for political expediency.
		Thank you.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Members, questions for the witness.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair Harzan, thank you for your testimony.
unidentified		Witnesses excused.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair calls Key West.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Key West.
unidentified		Okay, Chair will show Key West register to testify on behalf of the Black Chamber of Commerce on a revised congressional redistricting plan, but not testifying.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair calls Lydia Beam.
unidentified		Lydia Bean.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair shows Lydia Beam or Bean.
unidentified		I apologize, Lydia Bean.
		Chair shows Lydia Bean registered to testify on behalf of herself on the revised congressional redistricting plan, but not testifying.
		Chair calls Angela Forelli.
		Angela Forelli.
		All right, come on down.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		If I can get you right here at this microphone and then Manuel Mata.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Manuel Mata?
unidentified		Okay.
		Chair calls Manuel Mata.
		Chair will show Manuel Mata registered to testify on behalf of himself on the revised congressional redistricting plan, but not testifying.
		Instead, at that microphone over there, if I could get Ted Ellis.
		Is Ted Ellis here?
		Chair shows Ted Ellis registered to testify on behalf of himself on the revised congressional redistricting plan but not testifying.
		Let's try this again.
		If I can get at this other microphone, Danny Minton.
		All right.
		Chair, Treasury, registered to testify as Angela Farrelly on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan.
		Is that correct?
		Yes.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Please give us your testimony.
unidentified		My name is Angela Farelli, and I reside in Dallas, specifically part of the 30th Congressional District.
		A lot of what I had put in my statement that is going around to you all has already been said.
		And so rather, I'd like to use my time to just address what Mr. Chairman, you had said in terms of the number of people who have come out and spoken and your need to evaluate what has been shared and if there is still a need for this committee to even exist.
		You did state that there were about 500 to 600 people who came today.
		You weren't prepared to say about how many, what percentage of those people were testifying in terms of opposing this committee's existence or their disapproval of redistricting in general.
		But from my recollection, there was only one person who spoke very adamantly in terms of favoring redistricting and one person who was a little wishy-washy and wasn't really quite sure what he was trying to say.
		Everyone else who has come up to the lecture and made a statement to everyone on this committee very clearly is against this effort and they are wanting to make sure that their vote counts.
		So I really think that it is very prudent of you to acknowledge that and to not say that you're not sure where people stand on this issue.
		By saying that you're not Being able to say publicly that you have heard what the people are saying and that the majority overwhelmingly do not want this doesn't make us trust you.
		So I think it's very important for you to know that the people of Texas do not want this.
		The people of Texas are not going to trust you if you move forward with this.
		And that the people of Texas will vote everyone out who does approve this.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Members, questions for the witness.
unidentified		Chairs, thank you for your testimony.
unidentified		Thank you.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Chair calls Danny Minton.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		So you register to testify as Danny Minton on behalf of yourself on the revised Congressional Redistricting Plan.
unidentified		Is that correct?
		Yes.
		Please give us your testimony.
		All right.
		My name is Danny Minton.
		I'm very excited to actually get a chance to do this.
		Thank you for staying here and listening.
		This subject is near and dear to my heart as I was going to announce my intention to run for the U.S. House of Representatives tonight.
		As a very proud Democrat, by the way.
		So I was leaving the House a long time ago to come to the protest beforehand and then to come to this.
		And my son, who was hoping I was going to make dinner because I love to cook barbecue every night, and he was excited that I was going to, and then he found out I wasn't.
		But he's like, Dad, why are you in your best go-out and protest gear?
		That's what I'm wearing.
		And I had to tell him I'm going to the redistricting meeting.
		And he says, oh, is that that salamandering thing?
		And he's 15, he's learning.
		I said, kind of, yeah, it's gerrymandering.
		And I explained exactly what it was.
		And he said, well, isn't that just cheating?
		And that's come up a couple times tonight, but not enough.
		This is something that is blatant cheating.
		We teach our kids not to teach.
		We don't even just teach our kids not to cheat.
		We actually punish our kids when they cheat.
		When people cheat at work, they get fired.
		When people cheat in life in general, there are repercussions.
		And this is blatant cheating.
		This is actually epic cheating, what we're trying to do here with redistricting.
		This is like cold play Kiss Cam cheating.
		Except for a nice-looking CEO standing behind you with his arms wrapped around you, you have a rapist pedophile that is standing there saying, you need to cheat and give us these votes.
		Give us this Congress.
		And does he have to cheat to win?
		Yeah, he does.
		In 2026, we will annihilate him.
		But it's still wrong.
		That's democracy.
		Democracy means if we can beat him, we will.
		And I think even if you cheat, we're going to beat him in 2026.
		But at the very least, we need to know that this is absolute cheating and it is wrong.
		Thank you.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Members, questions for the witness.
		Thank you for your testimony.
		Members, the time for public testimony at today's hearing has concluded.
unidentified		Thank you for all those who testified today.
unidentified		The electronic portal for today's hearing will close right after we adjourn.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		If you registered to testify but were not reached today, or if you had more to say than time allowed, you can feel free to turn in your testimony up front.
unidentified		Minutes of today's meeting will all show that you registered.
		So my – let's see.
		Where is – where is my – so my assistant clerk is around here, Dylan.
		Right behind me.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so we're out up front.
		We'll meet you right here.
		If you want to turn in a written copy of your testimony and bring it down front, we'd be glad to receive that from you.
		So, there being no further business before the committee, the chair moves that the House Select Committee on Congressional Redistricting stand adjourned, subject to the call of the chair.
unidentified		Is there objection?
unidentified		I object.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		The chair hears objection under the rules.
unidentified		This is a not debatable motion.
		The clerk will call the roll.
		Chair Vesut here.
		Aye.
		Vice Chair Rosenthal.
		Nay.
		Representative Garcia.
		Representative Garcia, Representative Guerin, Are you on the Representative Guern?
		Representative Gervin Hawkins.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		A motion has to be made and a vote is underway.
		The members of the committee will cast their votes.
		Representative Gervin Hawkins.
unidentified		Representative Guerra.
		Representative Guillen Representative Guillen Representative Guillen Representative Hefner Aye.
		Representative Pickland.
		Representative Hunter.
		Representative Manuel.
		Representative McQuinn.
		Representative Metcalfe.
		Representative Moody.
		No.
		Representative Pearson.
		Representative Spiller.
		Aye.
		Representative Tepper.
		Representative Thompson.
		No.
		Representative Turner.
		No.
		Representative Wilson.
		Representative Wu. No.
		Gene.
		No, right.
		Yeah. Thank you.
		We got you.
		1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6, 7, 8.
cody vasut ▲ ● ▼		There being 11 ayes, 8 nays.
		The motion prevails.
		The House Select Committee on Congressional Redistricting stands adjourned, subject to the call of the chair.
unidentified		On Tuesday, the Texas Senate Special Committee on Congressional Redistricting will take public comment on their plans to draw new congressional maps.
		Earlier in July, President Donald Trump called on Texas Republicans to redraw maps in order to protect Republicans' House majority in the 2026 midterm elections.
		See that live at 10 a.m. Eastern on C-SPAN 3.
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