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July 24, 2025 06:59-10:01 - CSPAN

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Washington Journal 07/24/2025

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ken cuccinelli

35:22

mimi geerges

cspan 34:17

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brian lamb

cspan 00:39

hakeem jeffries

rep/d 02:05

kari lake

00:39

karoline leavitt

admin 01:59

mike johnson

rep/r 02:41

tulsi gabbard

admin 01:36

willie nelson

01:53

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pastor james david manning

00:12

stanley k monteith

00:19

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rusty in north carolina

callers 00:03

texas skeptic in texas

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		Coming up on C-SPAN's Washington Journal, we'll take your calls and comments live.
		Then we'll discuss President Trump's immigration policies over the first six months of his term with former Department of Homeland Security official Ken Cuccinelli, a senior fellow at the Center for Renewing America, and Steve Herman, former national correspondent for Voice of America, on the impact of cuts to the organization.
		Also, we'll talk about the Texas legislature's move to redraw its congressional map and give the GOP an edge in next year's midterm elections with Spectrum News One Austin political reporter Aaron Davis.
		Washington Journal is next.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		It's Thursday, July 24th.
		Wall Street Journal broke the news yesterday that in May, the Attorney General told President Trump that his name appeared multiple times in the Epstein files.
		And the House Oversight Committee has voted to subpoena those files.
		Also yesterday, Tulsi Gabbard, the Director of National Intelligence, said she had referred recently declassified documents to the Justice Department and FBI for criminal investigation, including into former President Obama.
		She accused the former president and his administration's officials of a quote years-long coup against President Trump.
		Give us a call to share your thoughts about either of those stories.
		Here's how to reach us.
		Democrats, 202-748-8000.
		Republicans, 202-748-8001.
		And Independents, 202-748-8002.
		You can send a text to 202-748-8003, include your first name in your city-state.
		And you can post your comments on social media, facebook.com/slash C-SPAN and X at C-SPANWJ.
		Welcome to today's Washington Journal.
		Start with ABC News with this headline, Justice Department faces subpoena over Epstein files by House Oversight Committee.
		It says it came the same day Epstein Associate Ghillain Maxwell was subpoenaed.
		It says that the motion passed by a vote of eight to two, notably three GOP lawmakers, Representatives Nancy Mace, Scott Perry, and Brian Jack, joined with Democrats on the subcommittee to approve the subpoena, defying Republican leadership.
		Here's the Wall Street Journal article.
		Justice Department told Trump in May that his name is among many in the Epstein files.
		Bondi also told the president at the meeting that justice decided not to release more Jeffrey Epstein documents because of the presence of child pornography and the need to protect victims.
		Well, one more article for you on this.
		The Justice Department is meeting with Ghillene Maxwell.
		That's set for Thursday tomorrow.
		She is serving a 20-year sentence at a prison in Tallahassee.
		It says that a senior Department of Justice official is expected to meet with longtime Jeffrey Epstein Associate Elaine Maxwell on Thursday.
		That is Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch.
		And he said this in a statement posted by the Attorney General on X: quote, President Trump has told us to release all credible evidence.
		If Ghelaine Maxwell has information about anyone who has committed crimes against his victims, the FBI and the DOJ will hear what she has to say.
		Other story that we're following, this is Fox News.
		New Russia gate evidence, quote, directly points to Obama.
		DOJ will decide criminal implications.
		That's what DNI Gabbard said.
		She says, quote, there was a gross politicization and manipulation of intelligence by the Obama administration.
		We'll hear directly from her.
		She was at the White House taking questions from reporters yesterday.
unidentified		Based on what you now see, do you believe President Obama is guilty of treason?
tulsi gabbard ▲ ● ▼		I'm leaving the criminal charges to the Department of Justice.
tulsi gabbard ▲ ● ▼		I am not an attorney, but as I've said previously, when you look at the intent behind creating a fake manufactured intelligence document that directly contradicts multiple assessments that were created by the intelligence community, the expressed intent and what followed afterward can only be described as a years-long coup and a treasonous conspiracy against the American people, our republic, and an attempt to undermine President Trump's administration.
unidentified		The Senate Intelligence Committee spent several years looking into this and unanimously agreed in a bipartisan fashion.
		Secretary State Rubio was a member of that committee that there was no political interference.
		There was a years-long Justice Department investigation into this as well that also concluded no political interference.
		So help us from a 50,000-foot level explain what do you now have that refutes those two certain things.
tulsi gabbard ▲ ● ▼		I will encourage you in my role as the director of national intelligence.
		My job again, as I said when I came into this role, was to make sure that we are telling the truth to the American people and that we are ensuring that the intelligence community is not being politicized.
		So I'm not asking you to take my word for it.
		I'm asking you and the media to conduct honest journalism and the American people to see for yourself in the documents that we've released now close to 200 pages that point in multiple references, multiple examples, to include comments that have been made by senior intelligence professionals who are some still working within these agencies today that confirm the conclusions that we have drawn,
		that President Obama directed an intelligence community assessment to be created to further this contrived false narrative that ultimately led to a years-long coup to try to undermine President Trump's presidency.
unidentified		And did you believe that those two previous investigations missed that or covered it up?
tulsi gabbard ▲ ● ▼		I'm telling you to look at the evidence.
tulsi gabbard ▲ ● ▼		Look at the evidence and you will know the truth.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		That was yesterday and the reporter mentioned the Senate intelligence probe.
		Here is roll call that from that time with this headline, Senate report outlines grave Russian threat in 2016 election interference probe.
		The report details ties between the Trump campaign and Russia but doesn't find evidence of coordinated scheme.
		Taking your calls on that and the latest on the Epstein files will start on the Republican line in Livonia, Michigan.
		Theodore, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		How are you?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		Thank you for taking my call.
		I just have a comment about the Obama false narratives.
		200 indictments against President Trump.
		200 false indictments.
		And the man sitting in the Oval Office, this Obama character, Hillary Clinton, they should be in jail for what they did trying to bring down this presidency.
		And they're on the street.
		This is not right.
		Okay.
		Also, a lot of people of color, I noticed, have called in calling Trump a Russian agent.
		How can they be so foolish?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And this is Benny in Louisville, Kentucky.
		Democrat, good morning, Benny.
unidentified		Good morning, Mimi.
		Yeah, I think that I think they should release these files.
		They don't want us to believe our lying eyes with Trump in every photo, getting on the plane, hanging out with Epstein.
		And my thing is, Republicans are the ones who yelled protest the loudest for these files throughout the past several years.
		And now they're not doing what they said they needed and they wanted.
		And Donald Trump said he would give them out.
		As far as Obama and Russia, Russia, Russia, this is a joke.
		There was a bipartisan decision that Russia interfered with the election.
		But they found no grounds.
		They didn't find any grounds.
		They found no tampering with the machine.
		Okay.
		But everyone knows Donald Trump asked to find the for Russia to get over Hillary Clinton's email.
		This is insane that we go through this.
		And the last thing I want to say, I think Republicans are very sad because every time they come on this show, they insult the moderators.
		They insult people who call in.
		You all have a show where you can call in and voice your opinion, and they blame you for saying you're not cutting people off or you let Democrats rent and rave.
		And I think it's very equal on both sides because I have the same, I'm not mad at you all for doing it, but they get to say their peace of mind too.
		Thank you so much, Mimi.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Jeffrey, Republican, Greensboro, North Carolina.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thanks for taking the call.
		And please give me a moment to express this.
		I want to go back to your first caller.
		It's very disturbing that, you know, Republicans see it only one side.
		And the point I'm trying to address is there is definitely some history between Epstein and Donald Trump.
		Absolutely.
		As far as what people are trying to diminish and go into this offset now with Obama, this treason, and stay off topic, the thing that he has done in his history as a president, he has showed no respect.
		He has shown no type of aura of an example from a point of he has admitted when he was running for president that you could violate a woman just because you're a celebrity.
		He said that out of his mouth.
		So the statement on him being in a possible position as a man that had no type of disaffiliation, there's no separation of that.
		And then as far as what they're talking about, Obama in the situation, I mean, do we not forget that this man has actually been indicted, convicted, a felon January 6th?
		There is no accountability.
		Anything he say is wrong.
		And then when it comes down to, I mean, anything he say is right.
		And then there's no accountability that people who are in such powerful media position don't call it out.
		They stay silence on the issue.
		This man has been trying to find something about the great ex-president who did a tremendous job.
		And African Americans did not just elect him in there.
		It was American.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Jeffrey, you're calling on the Republican line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Are you a Republican?
unidentified		Yes, I am.
unidentified		And I'm disappointed because, like I said, Republicans, you know what I'm saying?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Did you vote for President Trump?
unidentified		Absolutely, absolutely not.
		I did not vote for him because of the situation that was unfolding with all the scandals.
		You just cannot say that just because you are on a party line, it has to be the right person that's going to be in this position to help everyone, regardless if I'm on that base to say I'm a Republican.
		I want the right at that moment in my life.
		This is a changeable moment in life.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, got it.
		Let's go to the independent line, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.
		Dusty, good morning.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Good morning.
		As far as these files, you may get them and you may not.
		But if you do, they'll be so ridiculous.
		You won't have to get any information out of it.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Dusty, you don't have a good line, so maybe try to call us back.
		Let's take a look at what Speaker Johnson said on Capitol Hill.
		Yesterday, he was speaking to reporters about the controversy surrounding the Epstein files.
mike johnson ▲ ● ▼		No one in Congress is blocking Epstein documents.
		No one in Congress is doing that.
		What we are doing here, Republicans, are preventing Democrats from making a mockery of the Rules Committee process because we refuse to engage in their political charade.
		That is what is happening and nothing more.
		The way Democrats have tried to weaponize this issue is absolutely shameless.
		And I just want to say this.
		Democrats said nothing and did nothing, absolutely nothing, about bringing transparency for the entire four years of the Biden presidency.
		But now, all of a sudden, they want the American people to believe that they actually care.
		Their actions belie their words.
		We will not be lectured on transparency by the same party that orchestrated one of the most shameless, dangerous political cover-ups in the history of the United States.
		And that was President Biden's obvious mental decline.
		House Republicans stand for maximum transparency and truth.
		We always have and we always will.
		We're in lockstep with President Trump and his administration on this issue.
		We are pushing for the release of all credible information to be released with regard to the Epstein matter.
		I would note also that there are real issues, legal issues, with the Khanna resolution, with the Massey resolution.
		Connors has no protection whatsoever for the victims of these horrible, unspeakable sex crimes.
		And Massey's doesn't go far enough.
		Additionally, the president has directed the Department of Justice to pursue the release of grand jury information, and that is happening as we speak.
		In fact, the court is processing the DOJ's request for grand jury materials as we are standing here right now.
		That's a very important step.
		We'll evaluate any necessary measures that Congress needs to undertake when that process is completed.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Speaker Johnson, yesterday he had mentioned the request to the grand jury.
		He said that before this happened, here's the New York Times.
		Judge denies request to unseal Epstein grand jury transcripts in Florida.
		It says the president and his subordinates, including Attorney General Pam Bondi, have come under enormous pressure to release further details about the disgraced financier, Jeffrey Epstein.
		It says the denial came after the government last week asked judges in New York and Florida to unseal documents stemming from multiple criminal investigations involving Mr. Epstein in both states.
		In its request, the Justice Department cited, quote, special circumstances that arose from quote historical interest by the public, asking a judge in Florida to unseal transcripts from two federal grand juries convened in 2005 and 2007.
		Ben in Corpus Christi, Texas, Republican, good morning, Ben.
unidentified		Good morning, there, ma'am.
		Ben Hall since I've been on your program.
		Well, I tell you what, Obama is guilty of this Russia-Russia because he wanted to get a third term as president, and he saw the point that to disgrate Trump as being president, Obama would still be in office.
		And that's why the Russia-Russia crap is all out there.
		He is guilty as hell, and all of the people that were behind him are guilty as hell, and they're going to be punished.
		And I'm glad to see it coming to light.
		Thank you for that.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Ben.
		And this is PolitiFact with this fact check.
		It says this.
		So here's the claim stated in a July 2020.
		So this is yesterday in a press conference.
		In 2016, after Donald Trump won the presidency, then President Barack Obama was trying to lead a coup with Trump's opponent, Hillary Clinton, that is rated as Pants on Fire.
		It says this.
		Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, provided documents to the Justice Department seeking a criminal investigation into Obama officials stemming from their assessment of Russia's involvement in the 2016 election.
		A coup would have involved efforts to keep Donald Trump from taking office in 2016.
		Former President Barack Obama did not do that.
		It says multiple investigations found that Russia interfered with the 2016 election but did not manipulate voting results.
		Here is Eric, Nicholasville, Kentucky, Democrat.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Republicans have the shortest memory that I've ever seen.
		Just worse than a toddler.
		In 2016, American security agencies wanted to address Congress about the Russian meddling, the hacking, everything they were doing to try to influence this election.
		And Mitch McConnell blocked that from happening, saying that if Obama went through with allowing these security agencies to address Congress, he would go out into the media and call it a partisan attack trying to affect the election.
		We've had two different investigations going on, both led by Republicans.
		Robert Mueller, and then you had the Senate investigation.
		Both of them identified at least 100 different contacts between Russian agents and the Trump campaign.
		Both of them said that while there wasn't any direct coordination between the two, that Russia acted in a way to help the Trump campaign.
		And both of them came to the conclusion that the Trump campaign welcomed that help from Russia.
		So now you have Republicans coming up with this big conspiracy about Obama trying to overthrow the election or coup and all of this stuff.
		And I don't see why everybody's so blind to the fact that Republicans are ignoring their own investigative conclusions about what happened in 2016 to try to do what they're doing now.
		It makes no sense.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Eric.
		Let's talk to William, Orange Park, Florida, Republican line.
		Go ahead, William.
unidentified		I just want to say thank you for taking my call.
		And I got a few things I want to talk about.
		But I listen to you people.
		I don't see why you're not on some kind of an acid because you must have an upset stomach listening to all this stuff.
		But anyway, I don't think Republicans and Democrats alike should just sit back and wait for the papers to come out and then make your own decisions.
		Don't let nobody tell you different.
		Don't watch the wrong TV stations.
		None of this sucks.
		And then as far as Epstein, if that comes out and they find out that Clinton was on that plane, he's going to jail.
		And he's too old.
		He'll die in jail.
		And one last thing is, the last thing is, I was a bus driver in Chicago on different routes.
		And I had one in Cabrini Green.
		I had one on the south side and one on the west side.
		But when I was going through these routes, you'd see a guy standing on the street corner talking to himself and waving his arms.
		And you know he's been eat up on ginnered drugs.
		It sure reminds me of Hakeem Jeffries.
		Watch him talk.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And this is Bruce in Colorado Springs, Colorado, Independent Line.
		Hi, Bruce.
unidentified		Good morning.
		And thank you for taking my call.
		I appreciate it.
		First of all, as far as the DOJ goes, that's a making that Trump and his Attorney General brought on themselves.
		She sat there and said that she had this list and trying to turn it into the Democrats and that they have Trump derangement syndrome.
		Well, these people have short-term memory syndrome about some things.
		And let me just go ahead and clear this so somebody else can get in.
		I'm sorry for all these Republicans who think that Obama is going to get his, but they better remember that July 1st, 2024 of last year, didn't the Supreme Court rule that in some criminal proceedings that the president, current and former, are immune to prosecution.
		And on top of that, Rubio in 2020, he was part of that Senate investigation that said that even though Trump didn't collude with Russia, that they did find that they were interfering.
		So are they going to go after and subpoena the Secretary of the State, Mark Rubio?
		So when I hear these Republicans trying to talk about Trump derangement syndrome, you got Obama derangement syndrome.
		And like I said, you better look at the 6-3 ruling that presidents and current former presidents are immune from certain criminal prosecutions.
		Now, I know that's going to upset when that guy was talking about anti-asset.
		I'm sure he's going to be taking a whole lot of them and a whole lot of these other Republicans.
		Watch how they're going to call up with all these different excuses.
		That's not him.
		That didn't just apply to Donald Trump.
		That applied to Obama, Clinton, Bush.
		This goes all the way back to George Washington.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Bruce.
		We got that point.
		Now, this is from the White House press briefing yesterday, Caroline Levitt talking about findings from the CIA that suggests the Obama administration, quote, attempted to sabotage then presidential candidate Donald Trump.
karoline leavitt ▲ ● ▼		The president's first two years in office had this fake distraction hanging over it, and endless resources, time, and political capital were spent having to debunk these lies from the highest levels of our government.
		Now, nearly 10 years later, thanks to the declassification of documents by Director Gabbard, the truth has finally come to light.
		And this truth vindicates President Trump, his family, and his many allies and associates who were smeared with defamatory lies.
		President Trump was right from the beginning about all of this, and we are grateful that justice can be served.
		Now, we have even more damning evidence implicating those who tried to sabotage a duly elected president and did grave material harm to our republic.
		Thanks to additional important work done by CIA Director Ratcliffe, Committee Chairman Rick Crawford over the past few months, a newly declassified 2020 report prepared by the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, which DNI Director Gabbard has declassified, found that the Intel community did not have any direct information that Russian President Vladimir Putin wanted to help elect President Trump in 2016.
		And in fact, Russia was actively preparing for a Hillary Clinton victory.
		But at the unusual direction of Barack Obama at the time, the Intel community published implausible intelligence suggesting otherwise.
unidentified		Why?
karoline leavitt ▲ ● ▼		To sabotage the incoming president.
		This is truly one of the greatest political scandals in American history.
		And reporters at legacy outlets, some of which are sitting in this room today, like the New York Times and the Washington Post, were ridiculously awarded Pulitzer Prizes for their perpetuation of this hoax.
		It's well past time for those awards to be stripped from the journalists who receive them.
		It is not journalism to propagate political disinformation in service of the Democrat Party and those in the intelligence community who hand over out-of-context and fake intelligence to push a false political narrative.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		That was yesterday, and the Obama spokesperson Patrick Rodenbush said this in a statement in response.
		Out of respect for the office of the presidency, our office does not normally dignify the constant nonsense and misinformation flowing out of this White House with a response.
		But these claims are outrageous enough to merit one.
		These bizarre allegations are ridiculous and a weak attempt at distraction.
		Nothing in the document issued last week undercuts the widely accepted conclusion that Russia worked to influence the 2016 presidential election, but did not successfully manipulate any votes.
		These findings were affirmed in a 2020 report by the bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee led by then-Chairman Marco Rubio.
		Here is Robert in Lynchburg, Virginia, Independent Line.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Mimi.
		I have never heard such fabricated stuff in my life.
		I'm 81 years old.
		And when you got people that so crazy about one individual like Trump, you will hear anything that comes out of their mouth.
		Everything that comes out of their mouth, I don't believe none of it.
		And you had a guy that was in there, say he's a Republican, and he's from North Carolina, I believe.
		And he told the truth.
		He just told the truth.
		And the truth do not hurt you.
		And these people just lying.
		I would be scared to even now ask them any question because all of them could be replaced when you got people that's so scared to even now speak the truth.
		We have a problem in the United States of America that I've never seen.
		And like I said, I'm 81 years old, retired military, and I've never, we didn't have no President Obama, didn't go up on the stage with Putin and say, I trust him over my own intelligence agency.
		So something wrong with the people that put this man in the office.
		And thank you for taking my call.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And we'll take your calls for about another half hour on the issues of the Epstein files, the continued fallout from that, and the White House accusation of former President Obama.
		And this is a text we got from Jonathan in Monticello, New York.
		I think the Epstein files are a non-issue and a political stunt on both sides.
		This is a distraction from the real issues we have to deal with as a country.
		Eric in San Jose, California, line for Democrats.
		Eric, you're on.
unidentified		Yeah, how's it going?
		Yeah, I kind of go along with the last caller there.
		I think that with the Epstein files, I think it's kind of time to move on.
		I think that there are unclean hands on both sides.
		You're Democrat, you're Republican.
		I think they allowed this man to do what he did for their own political benefit, you know, be it that they needed money to run their campaign or projects that they were trying to work on.
		But I think there's unclean hands on both sides.
		Do we know?
		Do you know anything about the age of the young ladies that were involved with the Epstein thing?
		Were they underage?
		Because I know that Johnson came out.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sorry, go ahead.
unidentified		Yeah, because Johnson came out and he's talking pedophilia, this and that.
		Were these young ladies?
		What's happening with the victims?
		I think I'd like to focus more on making sure that they get help to move on.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, certainly, Eric.
		The whole issue is that they were underage.
		These are underage girls.
unidentified		Oh, wow.
		Okay.
		Yeah.
		But that's what I kind of wanted to say.
		I just think that both sides are kind of guilty to allow this guy to do what he did, but they used, you know, to get money for him from him to do what they needed to do for whatever they were doing at projects or whatever.
		So, yeah, I just think it's time to move on.
		All right, Eric.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's go to the Republican line in Kalamazoo, Michigan.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Lee, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		How are you guys doing?
		Hopefully well.
		Just wanted to reiterate what that gentleman, just the last caller, called and is moving on.
		How could you tell a 12 or 13-year-old girl to move on after something like that?
		It's irresponsible for one to move on.
		Two, I'm a Republican.
		Any Republican that was in with Epstein, may they rot in prison.
		I don't care who they are.
		As far as the Russian hopes, well, we will soon find out what really went on.
		We were lied to for how long about Biden's health.
		We were lied to about so many different things.
		It's hard to believe that Democrats can't come and look at either both sides.
		I mean, like I said, I'm a Republican.
		And if anyone was to find out that I don't care if President Trump was on that, because I voted for him, I'd hope he'd rot in prison.
		That's me.
		I mean, you don't mess with kids.
		And hopefully, with everything that's getting pulled out, may there be clarity, and I pray for that, on who's ever in charge and who was involved with it.
		May there be clarity and prosecution.
		Because our country is so confused right now with everything it's being told, that it's really a scary situation when you think about people saying that, let's move on.
		Well, these were children.
		You can't move on from a thing like that.
		That you just cannot do.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So, Lee, let me just show this.
		This is NPR.org, U.S. Virgin Islands officials, Epstein trafficked girls on private island until 2018.
		This is a January 16, 2020 article.
		But it says this.
		In one instance, investigators say a 15-year-old girl who was forced into sexual acts with Epstein attempted to escape by swimming off one of Epstein's private islands.
		Eventually, Epstein's crew found her after assembling a search team and took her passport, according to prosecutors.
		Kay in Brighton, Colorado, Independent Line, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		In reference to this subject today, I think that this is a distraction just to keep Americans from getting and requesting the information about the Epstein files.
		One thing that's bipartisan, I think that releasing the files or whatever information that can be released to the American people, it's bipartisan.
		There are high-powered Democrats, Republicans, high-powered wealthy people, people may be implicated or exposed.
		And I believe that right now this is just a big distraction reference to going way back to President Obama's administration.
		It's a distraction.
		It's like, hey, look over here, look over here.
		Instead of most Americans want this information released because it's about children.
		And if we can't protect our children, we're in big trouble.
		So I say, America, middle class, poor, watch your children.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And yesterday, there's a news conference held by Keem Jeffries.
		He's the Democratic leader in the House.
		He was asked if the controversy over these files would overtake the party's messaging on the impact of President Trump's tax and spending bill as members head back to their districts.
		Here is what he said.
hakeem jeffries ▲ ● ▼		The reality is that it's all connected from the standpoint of Donald Trump, his administration, and House Republicans have delivered nothing more than a government of the billionaires, by the billionaires, and for the billionaires.
		They've passed massive tax breaks for their billionaire donors.
		And in the context of this Jeffrey Epstein scandal and their refusal to share information to the American people, despite promising to do so, one must ponder the question, what are they hiding from the American people?
		And what billionaires, what well-connected donors, what elite people are they trying to protect?
		Why haven't Republicans released the Epstein files to the American people?
		It's reasonable to conclude that Republicans are continuing to protect the lifestyles of the rich and shameless, even if that includes pedophiles.
		That's a conclusion that if this continues, one may necessarily be compelled to reach.
		So it's all connected.
		Democrats are fighting to make life more affordable for the American people, to improve the quality of life for working families, middle-class folks, all those who aspire to be part of the middle class, hardworking American families, older Americans, our veterans, our families, the men and women of organized labor.
		This is what drives Democrats.
		But Republicans are focused on their billionaire donors.
		That was the centerpiece of the one big ugly bill.
		And it's what explains Republican refusal to release the Epstein files.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And we've got a text from Amber in Wakeman, Ohio, who says, pedophilia is not a distraction.
		The other perpetrators are still out there perpetrating.
		Not over until we clean house and get them all.
		Charles, Leesburg, Florida, Democrat, good morning, Charles.
unidentified		Good morning.
		It seems like they want to rewrite history.
		Now, in the 2020 election, President Trump was found guilty in Georgia of trying to have the Georgia state people change the vote count.
		Okay.
		He also wants everybody to...
		Wait, wait, Charles.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		He was found guilty?
unidentified		Well, he's...
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		That never went to charge.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		He was charged.
unidentified		He was charged right now.
		The charges are being upheld or being held up by the government of Georgia.
		Right?
		He called the governor.
		It was live on TV.
		You know, people have a short memory.
		And right now they're trying to rewrite history.
		And every time you allow them to insert all these untruths like they're doing now, they're flooding the airways just like they said they would so that the truth is hard to get out because these people don't have the ability to critically think of what's going on with our government.
		They're trying to destroy the government of the United States.
		That's what they're doing.
		Right in front of our faces.
		And I think it has something to do with COVID because they all have a brain deadness.
		All right, Charles.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Independent Line Superior, Wisconsin, Lamar.
		Good morning.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Yeah, I just wanted to speak concerning the Epstein and the Obama accusations.
		And I initially was going to get on here and start talking about, you know, from books I've read.
		I just want to say some of this kind of reminds me of President Nixon.
		A lot of people thought that President Nixon was a phenomenal president when it came to policy, when it came to getting things done.
		But what ultimately doomed President Nixon was, if I remember correctly, would be paranoia and just being a bad person.
		And it seems in American politics, there's this constant conversation about goodness versus competency.
		There are certain people who say, I want a president that is a good person, and he won't commit any unlawful, illegal act.
		And then there's other people who say, well, who cares about goodness?
		I just want somebody to get these policies and get these laws passed so the American people can live a better life.
		Rather than President Obama did what Tulsi Gabbard accused him of, or rather Trump is in the Epstein files or not, we really do need to talk about and discuss electing honest, decent, reasonable people to Congress, to the governorship, to the presidency, even to the Supreme Court.
		If you are a remarkably intelligent person, but you're a vile human being, it could destroy you, just like what happened in Nixon's presidency.
		The last thing that I want to think about is I kind of got this from the Sherlock Holmes stories where Sherlock Holmes says that Professor Morioti is a Napoleon of crime.
		You could be very, very brilliant and be an awful person, or you could be a good person and just be incredibly incompetent.
		We as the public need to elect good men and honest women who are competent, who have morals and value, so that we don't have to talk about and discuss this type of stuff on national television for weeks on end.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Lamar.
		Here's Teresa, Republican, Lancaster, Pennsylvania.
		Teresa, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Amy.
		I'm very surprised that Hakeem Jeffrey stated that they're holding information back to protect the Republicans.
		The Epstein files, they had that when the Democrats were in, and they could have released that.
		I feel also we should not let this go.
		There are children that we need to protect, look out after, that are being abused continuously through this country.
		And this needs to be an example that we need to get to the bottom of it.
		And those that are responsible need to be punished, whether they're Democrat, Republican, or what they want to call themselves.
		This is uncalled for.
		That's all I have to say today, Amy.
		Thank you for your time.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And Senator Mark Warner sent out several tweets, and he says this: the Senate Intel Committee unanimously concluded that Russia interfered in the 2016 election.
		If there had been some Obama conspiracy, we would have found it.
		This latest lie is another sad, dangerous example of Tulsi Gabbard trying to rewrite history and erode trust in the IC, that's the intelligence community.
		And he says this: Republicans are literally trying anything, including declassifying other random reports to distract from their broken promise to release the Epstein files.
		Let's not let them pull the wool over our eyes, release the Epstein files.
		This is from Representative James Comer on X, who says, I have issued a subpoena to Ghelane Maxwell for a deposition to occur at Federal Correctional Institution in Tallahassee on August 11th.
		The Department of Justice is cooperating and will help facilitate the deposition at the prison.
		Also, we did mention reports that Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch will be meeting with Ghelane Maxwell today.
		So if any news comes out of that, we will let you know.
		Miriam Monks Corner, South Carolina, Democrat, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I love C-Stan, and I pray that they do nothing to try to take you guys off the air.
		I'm calling about the Ghelane Maxwell situation.
		I don't know why they're trying to subpoena her.
		She's a liar, just like Trump is.
		You know, they did all these awful things to these kids.
		And that's just a piece of meat that they're throwing to people that they're going to go and subpoena her.
		They're probably going to go and offer her something.
		Probably going to go and offer her some time out of jail or whatever.
		I think it's very unfair.
		Just release the files, release the files.
		It's not very hard to do, but they found things in there about Trump and probably others, other politicians that they don't want to get out.
		And I don't know why they just drinking too much of the Kool-Aid.
		Their eyes are closed.
		I don't know what's wrong with the Republican Party.
		It was a party that had some integrity one time.
		Now it's just gone.
		It's just going to hell.
		About that's about all I have to say.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Miriam.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And about Ghelane Maxwell, here is Speaker Mike Johnson yesterday also speaking to reporters.
mike johnson ▲ ● ▼		Look, there is no daylight between members of the House Republican Conference, or for that matter, between us and the White House.
		I fully support my committee chairs.
		Jamie Comer is a trusted friend.
		He's an excellent chairman of the Oversight Committee, and he has a duty and responsibility to follow the truth where it leads.
		And so every single one of us are for maximum transparency, and we'll use every power that we have to ensure that that's done.
		If they see fit to bring in Jelaine Maxwell for testimony, that's fine.
		I will note the obvious concern, the caveat that Chairman Comer and I and everyone has, that could she be counted on to tell the truth?
		Is she a credible witness?
		I mean, this is a person who's been sentenced to many, many years in prison for terrible, unspeakable conspiratorial acts and acts against innocent young people.
		I mean, can we trust what she's going to say?
		Even if she raises her hand and says that she'll testify under oath, is that something that can be trusted?
		You know, that's a reasonable question.
		Is that credible evidence?
		I don't know.
		But we'll have to see.
		We have to uncover everything that we can and let the American people evaluate their truth.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Back to your calls to Charles in Florida, Independent Line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Charles.
unidentified		Yeah, America's a beautiful place to live if you can see the beauty in it.
		But right now, we're seeing in some of the most decadent parts of the underbelly of America.
		I would reach out my thoughts to John McCain and the courage he had to stand up to the Republican Party and give thousands of people health care because he voted with the Democrats.
		They have nobody in the Republican Party who would do that today.
		And they go along with a personality opposed to having the principles.
		Principles above personality.
		It's a saying in a community of recovery that you need.
		And you see no principles in this stuff.
		When you go along with this big personality, even though he's wrong, it's too left feet with all the things that he has done.
		And people just follow him.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So now, Charles, you know, on the oversight committee, there were three Republicans that voted to subpoena the Epstein files.
unidentified		Hooray, hooray, hooray.
		Somebody's standing up.
		And even with Mike Johnson just said, he's getting a little bit of religion, a little bit of spirituality, a little bit of Christianality, something, having some principles opposed to just going with this big fat personality that's a bully.
		Thank God that a few people said, wait a minute, these are little children that Eustine and all the other people who were with him abused year after year.
		Your daughters, your granddaughters, your wives, your mothers, your children.
		That's what these people did.
		And people are trying to make excuses for it.
		It doesn't make sense.
		Let's say this get off the hat.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		On the line for Democrats in Alexandria, Minnesota.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Bonnie.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I think there's a smell coming out of the White House, and it's just not sulfur alone.
		It's fear.
		You know, there's just some incriminating stuff about Trump and Epstein, I do believe.
		And I think it's just got Trump just totally unhinged.
		And it might not have anything to do with the pedophilia part of it, but there's some really nasty stuff somewhere.
		And, you know, you listen to Epstein's brother, and he talks about the closeness of him and his brother and Trump.
		And then last night I saw a clip where Epstein was asked if Trump ever had sex with anybody underage, and he would not answer.
		And, you know, it just makes you all wonder.
		And I've seen a show called The Murder of Epstein.
		And I truly believe that he was murdered, that he had so much information that somebody was so scared of it that they made a phone call.
		That's about all.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Richard in Rockland, California, Republican line.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Good morning.
		Yeah, again, I'm sitting here listening to all the different conversations.
		And I just got to say the hypocrisy on the part of the Democrats is over the top.
		They're all worried now about this Epstein thing that took place years ago.
		But the four years before Trump got elected, they allowed 300,000 kids to come across the border unescorted.
		And it's my understanding that a lot of them were sex trafficked through the cartels.
		A lot of that is going on right now.
		And they refused to acknowledge any of that.
		The mainstream media didn't cover it.
		And now the Republicans and Tom Holman's trying to clean it up.
		And all they do is meet with resistance from the Democrats.
		So supporting finding these kids.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And Richard, we will be talking about immigration in our next segment.
		So stay with us for that.
		Wayne, Southbury, Connecticut, Independent Line, good morning.
unidentified		How are you doing today?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		I saw your earlier guests you had on.
		You're talking to the girl from Butler.
		And just made me, I know it's off your thing, but to me, when you look at that, to me, it's so clear to see that it was really a professional hit job, but it was carried out by the government because all they didn't have a security men, they didn't have Secret Service on the roof, they had guys joining.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So, Wayne, that is off our topic.
		We will have an open forum later in the program.
		You can feel free to share your opinion then.
		Luann Westbolston, Massachusetts, Independent Line.
unidentified		Yes.
		The problem I see here is these both topics coming at the same time.
		And the Epstein files have been sitting for years during the Democrat Party rule.
		Why did the Democrats not bring this up?
		Why didn't they dig into this before?
		How is it that it's only during this time that now we're looking under the rock?
		Interesting.
		The timing seems like, again, another distraction.
		There's no doubt that Trump has had sexual indiscretions.
		We know we've heard him on tape bad mouthing, saying things that are not very provocative.
		He was friends with him in his youth.
		I don't know whether he actually left people until we find that.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Luann, sorry, we've lost your connection there.
		So maybe try to call us back.
		Independent Line, Horseshoe, North Carolina.
		Mike, good morning.
willie nelson ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
willie nelson ▲ ● ▼		How are you today?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good.
willie nelson ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		I'm not going to point fingers or make insinuations or call names because it's my personal belief.
		When you resort to name-calling, you have no political argument left.
		As far as the Epstein files go, the judge that denied the request by the DOJ was an Obama-pointer judge out of Florida named Rosenberg.
		And, you know, it's not sure what her affiliation really is, but if she's pointed by Democrats, probably can guess he kind of leans Democratic.
		But first off, anybody who's had any sexual relations with a minor should be in jail for the rest of their life with no parole, that first and foremost.
		And if the president did, you know, he should go to jail just like anybody else should.
		But until we get a hold of that, and I think, you know, Hucking Jeffrey's, you know, saying, you know, what are they afraid of?
		I think there's a lot to be afraid of on both sides because there's going to be a lot of high-profile people in politics, out of politics, big business, big corporations.
		It's going to be real ugly worldwide.
		And I just think it's going to be bad overall.
		As far as the insinuation against Barack Obama, let's just let the chips fall where they may and see how it plays out in the legal system.
		People in the last administration put people in jail on Donald Trump's side over the past.
		And I think that's going to get real ugly too.
		But before we judge, we should just sit back and see what happens.
		And I think you can take my call on you all.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Mike, let's talk to Robert Dowagiak, Michigan, Democrat.
unidentified		Good morning.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Morning.
unidentified		I'm just going to go back 16 years.
		Kelly Ann, I think, said manufactured facts.
		The Republican Party has been alternate facts.
		Yes.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		I remember that.
unidentified		You do.
unidentified		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And alternative facts or manufactured facts or creative truths.
		It doesn't matter.
		They've been doing it since 16.
		And it's all coming home.
		You can't keep lying over and over and over again.
		And that's what they do.
		That's all I have to say about it.
		That anybody who believes Donald Trump figure it out.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Independent line, Nuego, Michigan.
		Kevin, good morning.
unidentified		Morning.
		Thanks.
		Let's start out with Donald Trump being on the list.
		If Donald Trump was on the list, there ain't no way that Biden's people would let that go.
		They would have crucified him for it, for one.
		My next thing is, it's the children.
		You know, I hear all about these people here, these people here.
		You never hear nobody, nobody talk about the children.
		Have the children been found?
		Do we know if all the children are even alive?
		See, that's my biggest point of this whole situation.
		No one talks about the kids.
		No one talks about the victims.
		They only talk about the people who could get in trouble.
		You know, screw the victims, you know.
		So that's my biggest issue right there.
		Nobody's talking about the kids.
		I don't know what happened to all the kids that were there.
		They said there were thousands of pictures of, you know, having, you know, minor, you know, sex with kids.
		And yet, you don't hear nothing about any kids ever.
		So my question is, where's all the kids?
		And has all them kids been found?
		You know, I mean, it's just.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, we got that, Kevin.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Willie and Katie, Texas, Republican line, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Yeah, you've had C-SPAN.
		You have a chance here to kind of right the wrongs of C-SPAN to a certain extent.
		Back in the days when the Russian collusion was actually happening, when the Democrats and the Trump-hating Republicans set aside and tried to really punish the man just for winning the election, okay, you had all these folks who were on your show.
		I'm thinking of Ellie Mistahl and the guy's last name was Martin, I think.
		I can't remember, and Kim Whaley.
		You had these people on over and over.
		You had Malcolm Nance for crying out loud over all that time.
		You had a chance then, okay, to get people like Molly Hemingway from Federalist and Peter Schweitzer and people like that.
		You had Miranda Devine from the New York Post, who, you know, did such a great job on the Hunter laptop story.
		You had a great chance to do that.
		Now you have a better chance because all of these papers, all of these papers are being declassified by Tulsi Gabbard.
		These are things that the American people have not had a chance to see.
		Now they do.
		So I think, you know, in C-SPAN, it's probably a good idea if you have some of these folks on your show, okay, who could actually, you know, put forth the actual all of the things that the Obama administration has done.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		We do want to do that, Willie.
		We do want to get people from both sides.
		We do want to get people to help us understand what might be in those documents.
		If we can get the documents, we'll put them on our website as well.
		So appreciate your input in that.
		Was that what you wanted to say?
		Or was something else?
unidentified		Basically, yeah, that's what we saw there.
unidentified		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Diana, Livingston, New Jersey, Democrat, good morning.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
		This is really just another case of an organization and industry protecting itself.
		There's a lot of information.
		I just came across an article.
		It's dated June 27th, June 2025, June 27th, 2020.
		Barkley's and Jeff Stately face fresh lawsuit in U.S. over Epstein-Link.
		Judge rejects former CEO's request to dismiss case, paving way for class action, also against Chair Nigan, Chair Nigel Higgins.
		And it's basically about how these investment firms, mainly Barclays and previous to that, Chase, where he's a chief executive, Jess Stately, S-T-A-T-L-E-Y.
		And they're facing class action lawsuit in the U.S. over claims they defrauded and misled investors over Stately's relationship with the child sex offender Jeffrey Epstein.
		And a judge just recently denied Stately's request to dismiss the case, paving the way for a fresh hearing that continues a long-running legal saga emanating from Stately statements to regulators and investors over the nature of his ties to the disgraced financier.
		And it's in the U.K., the Financial Conduct Authority.
		It's a bruising outcome for the American banker who lost a legal challenge in the U.K. on Thursday against the Financial Conduct Authority, which in 2023 had banned.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Diane, I appreciate you bringing that to our attention, but we want to get more calls in.
		Woodbridge, Virginia, Independent Line.
		Raynard, good morning.
		Raynard.
unidentified		Good morning.
		How you doing?
		Yes.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		How are you doing?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		Yeah, I was.
		Yes, I think there was something done in 2016 as far as the Russia is concerned.
		I believe there was something weird that happened in 2020 election.
		And also, I believe it was perfected in 2024.
		Because if you go back to, I always bring this up, if you go back to the pre-inauguration speech by Donald Trump, where he in minute 52, like 30 seconds, where he admits that the election was turned to his favor illegally.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And I'm not sure President Trump has ever admitted that he won illegally.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Raynard, is that what you mean?
unidentified		Yes, yes.
		Go to minute 52 and like 30 seconds.
		He says he starts with this rant about the Olympic Games being here and FEMA being coming here.
		And he said, I'm not going to be president.
		And then people, and then he says, they fixed the election for me.
		I'm going to be the president.
		He says that.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And that's our last call for this first hour.
		Later on the Washington Journal, a look at Voice of America and how the Trump administration has dismantled the broadcaster.
		Steve Herman is a former national correspondent there and joins us for that discussion.
		But first, former Trump DHS official Ken Cuccinelli, now a senior fellow at the Center for Renewing America, discusses President Trump's immigration policies six months into his new term.
		That's after a break.
unidentified		This weekend, as the nation prepares to celebrate its semi-quincentennial, American History TV begins a year-long series, America 250, on the American Revolution and its impact on the country.
		At 8 a.m. Eastern on Lectures in History, Ithaca College professor Michael Trotty on the escalating tensions between colonists and the British government before the American Revolution.
		Then at 11 a.m. Eastern, we'll visit Fort Ticonderoga in upstate New York for a Revolutionary War reenactment.
		And later, historian Bruce Venter explores the significance of the May 1775 capture of Fort Ticonderoga by American Commander Ethan Allen and the Green Mountain Boys.
		And at 12:45 p.m. Eastern, the Franklin D. Roosevelt Presidential Library and Museum's annual book festival in Hyde Park, New York, where historians discuss the history of the U.S. Navy, American spy craft, and the role of breweries in the New Deal.
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		Washington Journal continues.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back to Washington Journal.
		Joining us to discuss immigration is Ken Cuccinelli.
		He is Immigration and Homeland Security Senior Fellow at the Center for Renewing America, formerly acting deputy homeland security secretary in the first Trump administration.
		Welcome to the program.
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		Good to be with you, as always.
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		It's been a little while.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Remind us about the Center for Renewing America, your mission, and funding.
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		So the Center for Renewing America is a think tank, and we think of ourselves as a do-tank.
		But what that means is we develop policy solutions in a limited number of areas.
		I am a senior fellow for Homeland Security and Immigration.
		That is one of the areas we work in.
		Another is the federal budget.
		We also fight the transgender agenda, and there's a series of other things.
		We also touch on foreign policy, pushing policies that support the American side of trying to get our allies in NATO, for example, to commit more to their own defense and so on.
		So we don't cover every issue like say something like the Heritage Foundation might because it's so much bigger, but we have taken a tack of being aggressive in the issue areas that we engage in.
		For example, in my own space, we have laid down the backdrop for governors on the border of the United States to repel illegal aliens crossing their borders from outside of the United States without federal permission or approval based on Article 1, Section 10 of the U.S. Constitution, which allows them to do that.
unidentified		And I know of no that addresses that.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Just because there's a lot to get to, and you wanted just to mention your funding.
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		Well, as I mentioned, we're pretty small, so our budget is a few million dollars a year, and that's it.
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		So we operate out of one little office in D.C., and people like me work remotely.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And that comes from where?
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		Private donations from individual donors, yes, private.
		Yeah, private donations, no government funds.
		In fact, one of the budget pushes we make is to stop government from giving any NGOs funds to undertake their mission sets because they're overwhelmingly left-wing, as we've now seen with Doge uncovering that from the Biden administration.
		And we're perfectly happy to continue to live without any government money as we think is appropriate.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And let's talk about immigration hours.
		The Trump administration's hit the six-month mark.
		What do you think have been the most important immigration changes made by the Trump administration these six months?
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		So the first and starkest is the securing of the border with no change in legislation or budget.
		This was a debate before President Trump was sworn in again for his second term.
		You'll recall there were Republicans in the Senate even who said we need legislation because Joe Biden said, oh, I can't secure the border without new laws.
		And that was argued by people like me to be untrue, that the executive branch already had all the authority it needs.
		And Donald Trump has proven by shutting the border down to its lowest level of illegal crossings in history.
		Last month there were around 6,000, that's about 200 a day, the lowest level ever recorded.
		And none of those were released into the interior.
		Every single encountered illegal alien crossing the border has been detained.
		That was true in May as well.
		That is a huge and major accomplishment.
		It, first of all, puts the debate that was going on for two years before his swearing in to rest, that additional authorities were needed.
		That was clearly not the case.
		And that has always been from both parties, step one, secure the border before we can talk about fill in the blank, guest workers, reforming legal immigration, et cetera.
		Step two are their efforts to expand deportation of the really unknown number of illegal aliens in the United States.
		Estimates range everywhere from 10 to 30 million.
		And they have been very aggressive about that, putting a special emphasis on people who are in this country illegally, but who have also committed crimes illegally.
		Well, crimes illegally, of course.
		Things like sexual assault, rape, robbery, DUIs, et cetera.
		And I want to point out, as I'm sure we'll have discussion about it, that the additional criminal population among illegal aliens is probably somewhere between 2.5% to 5% of the overall population.
		So I'm sure we're going to take some calls where people are going to say, oh, he promised to get rid of the criminals and nobody else.
		And that is just not true.
		But The numbers of the people they have deported are about 30% criminal illegal aliens, which makes them about 10 times the proportion of the deportees as their number in the illegal alien population in the United States.
		So they have strongly emphasized getting people out of the country who provide public safety in addition to enforcing immigration law.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So I do want to ask you about deportation, specifically about the public opinion about it.
		This is a CBS news poll that was released on Sunday.
		And the question is, Trump administration is trying to deport.
		52% said more people than you expected.
		37% said what you expected, and 11% said fewer.
		Another question is who is the Trump administration prioritizing for deportation?
		And it's comparing numbers between June and now.
		So in one month, the number went from 53% to 44% for dangerous criminals as to who you think the Trump administration is prioritizing.
		People who aren't dangerous criminals, that number went up from 47% to 56% as far as what people think the administration is prioritizing.
		So I just want to ask you about that and the prioritizing of criminals and what people were expecting out of the you said that the president during the campaign never said that he would prioritize dangerous criminals?
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
		That he would only be going after dangerous criminals.
		He has always said that he will prioritize them and they have done that.
		As I noted, criminals are being deported at a rate over 10 times everyone else in the illegal alien population.
		So that priority was advertised by the president.
		My point was that he didn't say that's all we're going to do.
		And that priority has been followed through on very aggressively by the Trump administration.
		But in terms of simple numbers, the number of illegal aliens here who haven't been convicted of an additional crime other than illegally breaking into the country is maybe 95 to 97 percent of the population.
		The president also said during the campaign, and I will grant, he said a variety of different things.
		He said he's going to remove all, he's going to remove lots, he's going to remove more than any president before him.
		And that record is about 3 million from President Obama's term.
		President Obama actually removed more illegal aliens than any other president.
		And they are behind schedule, the Trump administration is, if they're going to even match President Obama's numbers.
		And that would be combining Trump's first term and second term.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And I want to ask you.
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		For all of the news and focus, the numbers are not that high.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		I want to ask you about, you know, Trump administration officials have said that there's no amnesty while carrying out mass deportations.
		However, the news site notice has been reporting that there are Republican lawmakers that have been advocating for immigrants in their districts to stay.
		The headline says, Republicans calling for more deportations are quietly advocating for immigrants in their district.
		Despite Trump's immigration agenda, some lawmakers have helped immigrants as part of their constituent casework.
		What do you think of that?
		Should there be exceptions to the deportation strategy?
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's a great question.
		So I was testifying in front of Congress last week on the issue of parole.
		And for the people listening to us, parole in the immigration context is not like parole from jail.
		Parole in the immigration context means a special exception.
		The law says it's supposed to be case by case.
		to allow someone into the country or to stay in the country who would not otherwise qualify.
		And Congressman Correa used an example of an illegal alien who's lived here a long time and his three sons are in the United States Marine Corps.
		And I granted to the congressman, I said, look, that kind of situation may be exactly what parole is for.
		The reason for the hearing was that the Biden administration let in about two and a half to three million people using parole and they turned it into its own immigration program.
		So it wasn't case by case.
		So to your question, I think there are individual cases where the Secretary of Homeland Security could and should grant parole for a variety of reasons.
		We typically think of those as humanitarian reasons.
		Somebody needs medical care or something of that nature.
		And those grants are with conditions.
		They're not typically permanent.
		So that has a role to play here.
		But parole was so badly abused in the Biden administration and similarly, though not the same way, in the Obama administration, that my suggestion to Congress was to limit that to a hard number every year of, say, 3,000 opportunities to grant parole.
		And so the good cases that we can hear about in neighborhoods and congressional districts and coming across our border, that really call for the use of the application of mercy on an individual basis, on a specially warranted case, can be done and the American people can be confident that that power won't be abused, as it was in the Biden administration,
		to literally allow two and a half to three million people to just invade the United States.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And Mr. Cuccinelli.
		You did mention immigration enforcement numbers.
		I wanted to show this Reuters article from July 2nd comparing previous administrations to this one.
		This tracks daily ICE arrests.
		It says that that more than doubles under President Trump.
		This is the average daily arrests by ICE.
		And what it's shown here is that it is over double the daily average from previous administrations.
		I want to make sure that people know that they can call us and ask questions to our guest, Ken Cuccinelli.
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		And I don't have, Mimi, I don't have the Reuters article.
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		Is that compared to the Biden administration or any and all administrations?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Yep, so that's it compares it to Biden, to the first Trump, and then to the latter two years of the Obama administration.
		Again, that's average daily arrests.
		And our phone numbers are, sorry, sir.
		I'm just going to let people know the phone numbers, then I'll let you respond.
		Democrats are on 202-748-8000.
		Republicans 202-748-8001.
		And Independents, 202-748-8002.
		Our guests will be with us for about half an hour and can take your questions.
		Go ahead, sir.
		You wanted to say something.
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was going to say that if this administration is going to reach the goals that they have laid out publicly for deportations, two times that timeframe isn't going to cut it.
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		They're going to have to raise the deportation level very, very substantially if they're going to meet the publicized goals that the president campaigned on in terms of deportations.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You mean the one million per year?
		Is that the number you're referring to?
		One million per year?
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		So one million per year would require about 1,500 arrests per day.
		Well, let me do my math.
		No, more like 3,000 arrests per day.
		And we say arrests, but remember that one and a half, not quite one and a half million, but 1.4 million people already have removal orders.
		They've been all the way through the due process.
		There's about 400 to 500,000, probably now down to around 400,000, criminal illegal aliens who've committed other crimes after entering the country.
		That's 1.8 million people that they have to work on without putting anybody else in the pipeline.
		But they have not built up the systems to find those people and to move them into deportation processes quickly.
		The other thing that they should be doing that wasn't done, for example, in the Biden administration is when they go to a site where they're picking up someone, say, who has a removal order, they ought to be looking around, for example, at that person's family members, because if they entered illegally, the odds are very high that everyone else that that person is living with also entered illegally, we know from experience.
		And the Biden administration would pointedly not do that.
		And as a simple matter of efficiency, that is the most cost-effective way to operate.
		And that doesn't mean those people would be removed, but they would be put into the process where their deportation proceedings would be advanced and decisions would be finally made.
		And for those who are here illegally, then they would be put in the pipeline for removal as well.
		And ICE is not building up the logistics to handle these kinds of numbers.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And part of that logistics is facilities.
		The President, according to Bloomberg, has just awarded $1.26 billion contract to build the largest detention facility, the largest immigration detention facility in the U.S. What are your thoughts on how those detainees should be treated?
		You mentioned the application of mercy.
		Do those that are detained, what are the guidelines for how they are treated?
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		So first of all, there should be one set of federal guidelines, and let's start with the basics.
		People have entered this country illegally.
		They've broken our laws, but they're still human beings and they deserve to be treated with the dignity that every human being deserves to be treated with.
		So let's not objectify these people.
		They are people.
		Sometimes there's families and so forth.
		But they have broken the law and that's not a reason not to enforce the law.
		But you do go about it in one, while trying to gain efficiencies so there's movement of mass numbers of people if you can.
		But that doesn't mean you're abusing anyone.
		Having said that, because detention should be short, I've always advocated for large-scale facilities that are temporary holding facilities, and that is some of what has been contracted for.
		Frankly, Mimi, those contracts should have already been in place, and they should have just been contingent on the money that was voted on this month coming through.
		You know, they lost a month.
		going that route and those companies lost planning time and so forth.
		So there's still three and a half more years in President Trump's term.
		But these are steps, management and logistical steps that should have been taken prior to this month and have been ready to deploy.
		And it's not clear that that was going on at DHS.
		So I think there's still room for them to up their efficiency.
		And certainly there's a lot of room for them to expand their numbers.
		And I think a lot of the polling, if I could just make one last comment.
		I think a lot of the polling is response, of course, to the appearance people are seeing.
		The news plays a significant role in how people's opinions change.
		But the numbers actually aren't that high yet.
		They may be twice priors, but they're nowhere near what President Trump has committed to doing.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		NBC News, I want to ask you about Alligator Alcatraz, so-called in Florida in the Everglades.
		The detainees are talking about inhumane conditions there.
		I wonder if you've had a chance to take a look at that facility.
		Have you seen it?
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		Only the pictures in news.
		We did not use that when I was at DHS.
		Frankly, we weren't building up to do large-scale deportation when I was at DHS.
		That was one of my disappointments there.
		So I'm glad to see the president doing it now.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Any comment on the pictures that you've seen of the conditions there and what your impressions are?
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think there's a lot of, you know, it's kind of funnish to talk about something like Alligator Alcatraz, but it's just a facility.
		I will say in its favor, it has a nearby airstrip, so you can deal with transportation more easily than you can at some other facilities.
		Look, Florida has used this for emergency response for regular Floridians.
		I have no concerns about whether it's humanitarian or not.
		It clearly is.
		The real question is, is it an appropriate and efficiently usable facility?
		I appreciate Governor DeSantis trying to pitch in from the state level, and in that sense, it may be very helpful.
		But if it takes, you know, half a day for ICE agents working in the area who pick up deportees to get them to alligator, so-called alligator Alcatraz, and then to get back out on the street to do more work, then that's not an efficient use of time and resources.
		And it's fairly far outside of Miami, which is the largest locality nearby.
		So unless they're going to be using that airstrip very effectively, I'm a little concerned whether this would be cost-effective or not.
		My former colleague Mark Morgan, former head of the CBP during the first Trump administration, has written on this.
		He has expressed similar concerns.
		And you keep hearing me use the word efficiency.
		I will say I was an engineer before I went to the dark side and went to law school.
		And efficiency is something I still pay attention to and care about.
		And it's very important in a system, in a situation where the president has set very lofty numerical goals.
		Those don't just happen because of political will.
		They take substantial management expertise and a lot of logistics being brought to bear to succeed in achieving goals like that.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's talk to callers.
		We'll start on the line for Democrats, Owaso, Oklahoma.
		Kirk, good morning.
unidentified		President, good morning.
		How are you guys?
		Good.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Go right ahead, Kirk.
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Kirk.
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		Yeah, Mr. Cochinelli, as a farmer deportee, you know, have vast knowledge of the whole system.
		My question to you is, well, one of them, how do you think about the Trump administration firing a lot of judges?
		And I know you talk about the numbers, and that's why some of the reasons he's not getting this number, and you will never get these numbers, because you're supposed to know that in the system, all these arrests, majority have to going to require to see a judge because people might have relief, might can have avenues to stay in the country.
		They might marry two American citizens but didn't file their paperwork.
		Some of them were just overstaying.
		So they have a lot of relief.
		So my thing is he's trapping himself by talking all these, oh, we're going to deport, but they're not telling the American people that there's a process.
		And that's why this number is never going to be what it is.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Kirk, let's get a response.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		So that I would suggest, look, we talk about due process all the time.
		And the Supreme Court has said that people who are here illegally are due the due process Congress has given them.
		So it's not the same as someone charged with a crime who's a U.S. citizen in the United States.
		It's not the same as that.
		And there are different levels of amounts of due process or amounts of process.
		Kirk mentioned judges, and he was referring there to administrative law judges who judge immigration cases.
		And this is one of those areas that is one of the more difficult ones for the Trump administration to ramp up personnel.
		This is in the Department of Justice, not the Department of Homeland Security, though it would work better if they were both in one department.
		Nonetheless, there are 20 plus thousand retired or no longer serving state judges who would have to do nothing more than learn Title VIII, which is the part of the U.S. code that deals with immigration, which is, for a lawyer and a former judge, easy to do.
		And they don't have to move anywhere.
		These are people I think that the Department of Justice should be targeting for hiring so that they can massively increase the number of judges.
		And let's, you know, we're talking a lot about illegal immigration, but one of the things that should upset people about people cheating, people coming across the border illegal.
		Kirk mentioned people overstaying their visas, also illegal, and that's not a basis to stay.
		That's a basis to be deported.
		All of these people who are cheating, they clog the system for the people who are playing by the rules.
		And before I was the deputy secretary at DHS, I ran USCIS, which is our legal immigration agency as I refer to it.
		Everybody's familiar with IECE and CBP, but there's a third immigration agency, USCIS, for example, that handles processing new citizenship applications.
		And I was very proud to swear in new American citizens by the hundreds and thousands in my role leading USCIS.
		And any natural-born American ought to go to one of these ceremonies.
		They're very moving.
		It's the biggest day in the lives of these individuals, one of the biggest days in their lives.
		They're so proud to have played by the rules and to have crossed the finish line.
		And these are some of the people who, frankly, are often the most upset as they watch cheaters get jumped up the line.
		And that's not fair.
		And these same immigration judges have to deal with a lot of the contentious issues in the paths and the personnel that deal with it that USCIS handles while trying to process all the people who are playing by the rules.
		So I do think, Kirk, they need to hire a lot more judges, and there hasn't been emphasis on that because there is a lot of process for some of the folks who are picked up for deportation, who ultimately are going to lose their case, as the vast majority are, overwhelming majority, who have come here illegally.
		And I just want to say, but there's a process to do that.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And I just want to show what Kirk is talking about.
		This is from PBS News with the headline as Immigration Courts Face Backlog, DOJ Cuts Dozens of Judges.
		Ann is calling us from the city, Tennessee, Republican line.
		Go ahead, Ann.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		First, I want to say good morning to my good friend Carol.
		Mr. Cuccinelli, when President Trump was in office the first time, he had DNA testing done on the children.
		The last segment, the Democrats called in, they're all concerned about the children.
		Well, that slowed down the Biden's plan to get them all in here.
		So they stopped that and brought in hundreds of thousands of unaccompanied children, promptly lost 320,000.
		They don't know where they are.
		Some of the children had phones.
		And there was a congressional hearing this week that said that these children called in that were being abused, 65,000 calls on these children were ignored.
		So the Democrats that keep calling in, it's always about the children.
		President Trump is having to deal with these Soros gangs that are opposing our police and our border patrol.
		Obama didn't have to deal with that because Soros supported whatever Obama did.
		So the Democrats that called, and we'll talk about the children.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's talk about that.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And go ahead, Ken Cuccinelli.
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		So we did start in some parts of the border crossings.
		We did start doing DNA testing, and it was extremely effective, as you might imagine, in identifying fake families.
		Fake families are adults using children to try to get across the border and to be treated differently from a legal standpoint.
		Families can only be held for about 20 days because of something called the Flores Settlement, really imposed by one left-wing judge in California on the whole country 30 years ago, almost 30 years ago, and refined under the Obama administration.
		You are also correct that the Biden administration stopped checking DNA and recording DNA, which, by the way, is obviously identification of people coming across an international boundary who don't want to be caught is obviously a real challenge.
		So biometrics, DNA are very valuable in being accurate with the information that the United States government is working with with these folks.
		It's also literally the best tool in sussing out fake families where children are being trafficked or used to get adults across the border illegally.
		Ann is also correct that in their rush to bring millions of people in their open borders policy in the Biden administration, they lost over 300,000 children.
		They had no idea where they were.
		Those children have not yet been found.
		The Trump administration has said it's a high priority for them to find those children.
		And in the congressional hearing Ann referred to this week, officials admitted that over 65,000 of those children made calls to a hotline set up to report abuse by the sponsor households they were placed with.
		And 65 plus thousand of those calls were never returned.
		So these children were put at risk by the Biden administration and nothing was ever done about it.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And Mr. Cuccinelli, during your time during the first Trump administration, were all children DNA tested?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And if when you say that they were found to be fake families or they didn't belong to those adults, what happened to those children?
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		So not all children were tested.
		We didn't build up the capacity to do that.
		That is a capacity that should be built up.
		When people ask what should be done next at the border, that's one of the things that should be done.
		And we should come up with technological solutions that can work out in the field for agents who don't, without bringing people back to, say, a border patrol facility.
		So that's one of the longer term goals for the department.
		It is very important to be utilizing that technology.
		You also, by the way, spot repeat enters, which is a separate felony in the United States.
		So that does need to be done.
		When those families were, or fake families were spotted, the adults were separated out for prosecution frequently for trafficking.
		And the children were separated.
		They were interviewed.
		And as you might imagine, much closer attention was paid from an investigatory standpoint about whether they were being exploited or, you know, the fact is that parents send their children on these journeys as unaccompanied children, as dangerous and neglectful as that is from a parent standpoint.
		So there are some that are more innocuous than others.
		And obviously we were looking for the more serious situations where children might have been being exploited and to gather evidence of that exploitation and then to prosecute the adults.
		And then the children were then treated as unaccompanied minors.
		And they were dealt with on an individual basis.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was going to say to remind us of what happened with individual minors during the first Trump administration.
		Were they placed in foster care?
		Were they did non-governmental organizations care for them?
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		What happens under the law, and this is an unfortunate part of the law, is HHS, Health and Human Services, not the Department of Homeland Security, takes over responsibility for those children.
		And that is very unfortunate because Whenever you involve two departments instead of one, you add much higher levels of disorganization and it slows things down.
		But they would place these children with what amounted to foster homes.
		If they could find family members, they'd be placed with family members.
		And that was very controversial, I would add.
		And the reason that they weren't just returned immediately to their home countries was because statutory law in the United States, frankly, has been screwed up with what's a law referred to as the TVPRA from almost 20 years ago now that says you can return children immediately from Mexico and Canada if they're Mexican or Canadian.
		And what that ended up doing is creating a loophole where you couldn't return children from other countries.
		And this is why parents will often from other than Mexico or Canada, and we don't have a lot of illegal Canadians entering, but will send their children separately because the law has been read to exclude immediate return of children to all other countries in the world.
		And that has been recognized on a bipartisan basis as a major flaw in our immigration law.
		And yet, because of all the fighting in Congress, they have never been able to fix it.
		All right, let's talk to the children pile up here.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk to Jason Wolliston Park, New York, Independent.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Jason.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		Mr. Cuccinelli, thank you for your time.
		A couple of things.
		First, I think in order to make the numbers, you know, you talk about efficiency, and that's a little bit chilling in an OLEAN way as it is.
		But in order to make the numbers, they're going to have to start doing sweeps and kind of put aside the warrants.
		And I think we saw that in that little park escapade that they did in LA where everybody left because they got a warning.
		But I just kind of want to pose something.
		My family comes from WASPs in Boston.
		I'm in New York now.
		But your name ends in a vowel.
		And I just kind of want to pose a question for you.
		Back in the day when we had everybody coming in from Italy, which I'm sure your family is from, from your name, and you talk about efficiency and budgeting and things like that for the government, when La Costa Nostra was making their debut in the United States and costing the FBI and the government so much money, we could have pose back then that maybe just rounding up all the Italians and sending them back to Italy because it was costing so much money.
		And I feel that that's what's going on right now a little bit with our kind of vilifying everybody that has a name that sounds like they come from south of the border and that two and a half to three and a half percent, even the ones that are going to court and then are getting caught up on the, you know, when they come out of court and they're just sweeping them up and taking them.
		So I just kind of wanted to pose that question for you.
		Sure, let's get a now doing that.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's get a response, Jason.
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		So the law, I am half Italian, I'm also half Irish, and that's my family history.
		They came over on a boat, and a fact that a lot of people don't know was the law then and is the law now that the captain of the vessel that brings you over, whether that's a plane or a boat, if you are not allowed to legally enter the United States, that captain is responsible to take you back to where they picked you up.
		And think about what that does.
		That meant at the time when my family came over, the ship captain made doggone sure Before anybody got on that boat, that they could legally enter the United States because there was no way he wanted to absorb the cost, nor that his company wanted to absorb the cost of taking those people back.
		We do not get the benefit of that screening mechanism when people simply invade the country by walking across our borders because there is no vessel captain.
		We don't have that intermediary filter or opportunity.
		And because transportation's gotten so easy and Mexico lets so many people in and through Mexico to get to our border, we've lost that screen.
		Jason is wrong about the sweeps.
		The law is the law.
		And the greatest impediment to the law being implemented, even as it's written, even as difficult as all the due process I've referenced is for the government to manage, are judges who invade that process and throw roadblocks in, enter injunctions, and so forth.
		That got harder to do with the Casa v. Trump ruling at the end of the Supreme Court term.
		But your presumption that illegal tactics have to be used is just wrong.
		That's why I mentioned that I think one of DHS's shortcomings thus far has been preparing the manpower to pick up the kind of numbers.
		And I'm not talking about pick up off the street.
		I'm talking about do the research to know that you're targeting someone who has a removal order already and you have a plan in place to remove that person back to their home country at the time you go pick them up because they've been all the way through due process.
		And as I noted, we have 1.4 million of those.
		The reason they should be tripling and quadrupling the number of judges by hiring former state judges, for example, my one suggestion from earlier that we were talking about is so they can put more people in that particular part of the pipeline.
		There is a process to go through, but people do have to be identified, picked up, and put in that process.
		And it will shock no one to know that many people here illegally do not keep the U.S. government up to date on where they are living and working.
		And so that's a very important set of tasks, all that have to go on in parallel.
		So Jason's negative assumption about my comments about the necessary necessity for efficiency, he wants to assume that I'm talking about ignoring the law, and that's just not true, Mimi.
		And Mr. Kristen, it's not necessary to ignore the law to succeed.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Cuchinal, I want to ask you about what's on the front page of today's Washington Post.
		You might not have seen it, but the headline is: 180,000 migrants could have trackers.
		This is an ankle monitor.
		It says that ankle monitor use will vastly expand.
unidentified		Any reaction to that?
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		So, ankle monitors are part of what's referred to, the acronym you'll see, as ATD: Alternatives to Detention.
		And this concept came from what local jails do in your own community: using ankle monitors so people can live at home instead of being held in a detention facility.
		So, when it works, it's you know, it's great for both sides.
		The individuals are living in their home, they're more comfortable, but they're also restricted in their movement because they're essentially home detention And the point is to keep track of them while a detention process is going on in the process of removal.
		So it's useful where it works, but because people can break those off their ankles, it requires the cooperation of the individual.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		And historically, that has not happened at a high rate with illegal aliens.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Andy in Phoenix, Arizona, Republican, you're on with Ken Cuccinelli.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Hey, good morning, Mimi.
		Good morning, Ken.
		Ken, thanks for your knowledge and expertise on this.
		It's really appreciated.
		Mimi, I have a couple of comments and then a question for Ken.
		Just real quick, you read that Washington Post article on the ankle monitors.
		If I'm not mistaken, not Joshlyn Nungarry's murderers, the two illegals who entered under Biden, cut off their ankle monitors and then went on to commit that crime.
		So I don't know how I feel about that.
texas skeptic in texas ▲ ● ▼		But my couple comments are, so when Biden came into office, his administration reversed all the good measures put in place by Donald Trump.
unidentified		And most of the media ignored the daily tens of thousands of people coming to the border, the caravans coming to the border and just let into our country unvetted.
rusty in north carolina ▲ ● ▼		For me, the border has always been my number one issue.
unidentified		And it's really, I thought was criminal, to be quite honest.
unidentified		People say in this country, well, Americans commit more crime than illegals.
texas skeptic in texas ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a lot more Americans, but are you saying that we should allow additional criminals into this country, non-citizens committing crime?
unidentified		It's crazy.
		Mimi, you had a guest one time, Steph Kite from Axie Olson, and I asked, did the DOJ ever do an assessment on how many additional criminals we are importing into our country?
		And her answer was, well, there could be a little more uptick on farm workers.
		Most of these people aren't farm workers.
		Okay, we don't need 20 million farm workers.
		So.
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Any comment, Ken?
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
		So first, Andy drives home the point.
		Ankle monitors don't maintain public safety.
		They'll only work for tracking cooperative illegal aliens.
		And while when people are confronted and detained, they will sometimes begin to cooperate.
		The level of the proportion of cooperation relative to, say, the use of ankle monitors for home detention in the criminal context in the United States is very, very low.
		So people should keep that in mind.
		With respect to crime rates, I hear about this quite a bit, and it's hard to pin down the crime rates of illegal aliens because many jurisdictions intentionally don't track whether the criminals they're picking up are U.S. citizens or here legally or not here legally.
		And the fact of the matter is that crime rates are not appropriate to look at.
		What matters is the raw number of crimes committed by people who should have never been here in the first place, because every one of those crimes, including the ones referenced by Andy, are 100% preventable by enforcing border security and not letting them in illegally in the first place.
		And so I'll leave it at that.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Okay, one more call.
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		Congress has held hearings on this subject that I've participated in.
		And people who want more illegal immigration, which sounds funny, but Joe Biden did, they talk about crime rates.
		People who want to keep America safe and want less illegal immigration talk about the fact that every one of those crimes is preventable.
		So, you know, one more call for you from the discussion is dictated by go ahead.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		In Chicago, Illinois, line for Democrats, go ahead.
unidentified		Yeah, Mr. Vicinelli, you just stated the law is the law.
		You're an attorney.
		What do you think should happen to employers that employ undocumented immigrants?
		For example, Donald Trump, who has employed undocumented immigrants for decades and decades and decades.
		What should happen to employers like that?
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		So, one of the things I found surprising when I was at DHS was we really only had one large-scale work site enforcement.
		Some of you may remember it.
		It happened in 2019, and it was raiding a set of chicken plants, chicken processing plants, all owned by the same company.
		And prosecutions took place of managers because DOJ accumulated the evidence that people in the company knew they were hiring illegal aliens.
		By the way, those job positions, you talk about jobs Americans won't do, chicken processing probably is high on that list.
		Americans flooded in to fill out job applications and were ecstatic to get those jobs.
		So there are no jobs Americans won't do.
		Yeah, yeah, I believe employers should be prosecuted as part of work site enforcement.
		And my surprise at this event was that that was a bipartisanly supported position.
		I think many Democrats understand that the individuals in these circumstances, yes, they're displacing American workers.
		That upsets me.
		They're also exploiting the illegal aliens.
		They've got them in a position where, you know, what illegal alien employee is going to complain about something at work.
		And employers take advantage of that.
		And so I do believe they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
		It's one of the best ways to drive down illegal immigration in a way that doesn't require direct efforts at the entire illegal immigration population.
		Most people come here to work.
		And if those opportunities are taken away, two things are going to happen.
		Less people will come, so our illegal immigration problem will shrink.
		And poor Americans will get richer.
		And there's proof of that.
		We saw that in 2019.
		If you go back and look at the economic data in 2019, as illegal immigration enforcement had ramped up, the part of the economy that did the best, that saw the biggest wage increases, was the poorest part of the American economy, meaning poor U.S. citizens saw wage growth they hadn't seen in decades.
		And a big part of that was the law of supply and demand.
		As we cut off the incoming flow of illegals, poor Americans had better job prospects.
		And those people who support open borders always remember that they're willing to sacrifice American poor people and their work opportunities and their wage growth opportunities, which, you know, we count on that kind of growth here as a country to give people the chance to improve themselves.
		And yes, we're a nation of immigrants, but first and foremost, we have to take care of our own poor people.
		And illegal immigration undercuts that.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Ken Cuccinelli, former acting deputy homeland security secretary under the first Trump administration and Immigration and Homeland Security Senior Fellow at the Center for Renewing America.
		You can find out more about them at americarenewing.com.
		Thanks so much for joining us.
ken cuccinelli ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, Mimi.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And coming up next on Washington Journal, Steve Herman, former national correspondent for The Voice of America, discusses the impact of President Trump's funding cuts to the organization.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
brian lamb ▲ ● ▼		In a word, Evan Osnos' latest book focuses on the subject of money.
		His book is titled The Haves and the Have Yachts: Dispatches on the Ultra-Rich.
		There are 10 essays which originally appeared in his home publication, The New Yorker.
		The oldest one, Survival of the Richest, ran in 2017.
		The newest, titled Land of Make-Believe, was published in 2024.
		In his introduction, Evan Osnos writes that, quote, reporting in the enclaves of the very rich, Monte Carlo, Palm Beach, Palo Alto, and Hollywood is complicated.
		It's not a world that relishes scrutiny.
unidentified		Author Evan Osnos, with his book, The Haves and the Have Yachts, Dispatches on the Ultra-Rich.
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		Washington Journal continues.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And joining us to discuss the impact of cuts to Voice of America is the former Voice of America national correspondent Steve Herman.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for joining us.
unidentified		My pleasure, Mimi.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You worked for The Voice of America for 20 years.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Tell us what you did there.
unidentified		I was hired when I was a contract reporter in Tokyo, Japan, around 2007.
		And for three and a half years, I went to New Delhi, India.
		I was South Asia Bureau Chief.
		Then three years based in Seoul as Northeast Asia Bureau Chief, including coverage of the Fukushima disaster.
		And then three years in Bangkok as Southeast Asia Bureau Chief.
		Before coming back in 2016 to the United States, I covered the State Department, traveled with Secretary of State John Kerry, and then after Donald Trump was elected president, I went over to the White House for The Voice of America.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And then you got laid off?
unidentified		It's a little complicated.
		I was put on paid administrative leave a couple of weeks before everybody else at The Voice of America was.
		Essentially, everybody, almost everybody at VOA since mid-March has been on leave.
		And this all happened on what we call Bloody Saturday, when essentially the Voice of America was doged and broadcasts were immediately stopped.
		Imagine if people tuned in tomorrow and there was just static on the air for your program.
		There would be no explanation to the viewers as to what happened.
		And that happened with our 49 language services, an audience of about 340 million people.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		When you say almost everybody was put on leave, what's happening right now?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Is Voice of America on the air?
unidentified		Yeah, it's a great question.
		There is a skeleton, a Potemkin village of the Voice of America right now, broadcasting a few minutes a day over shortwave radio in Dari and Pashtu to Afghanistan.
		There is a little bit of Chinese material and Mandarin language online.
		And there's an attempt to program one hour per day in Farzi for Iran.
		That was a 24-7 operation previously.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And there's now it's one hour a day?
unidentified		I'm told that they're trying to do one hour a day.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		When you say 340 million viewers across the world, what was the mission of Voice of America?
		And does that mission still hold today?
		Or is it outdated?
unidentified		I don't believe it's outdated.
		We have a firewall and a charter, which are laws passed by Congress that say that the voice of America must tell America's story in a fair and balanced manner.
		And we have to reflect American institution and thought.
		Voice of America, no matter who is in power at the White House, cannot be the voice of the Democrats or the voice of the Republicans.
		It is the voice of America.
		And it had been doing this mission for decades.
		There's also an aspect like when I was overseas, I was covering disasters on the front lines, civil wars, civil insurrection, and we were reporting from the scene back to the Voice of America.
		And then the different dozens of language services would take my material and translate it into their language and tell their audiences what was happening.
		We were literally covering the world for the world.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Now, the White House accuses the Voice of America of being a radical leftist organization.
		This is thewitehouse.gov.
		And the headline is The Voice of Radical America.
		It says that here are some examples.
		It says, the Voice of America's management told staff not to call Hamas and its members terrorists, except when quoting statements.
		According to the Daily Caller, multiple Voice of America reporters have posted anti-Trump content on social media.
		And it says that Representative Scott Perry wrote in a 2022 letter that Voice of America has grown exceedingly partisan over the past several years.
		There is more, you know, there's a Voice of America headline, quote, what is white privilege and whom does it help?
		White privilege in quotations.
		What's your response to that?
unidentified		Well, first of all, as I said, we reflect American thought and institution.
		We talk about things that are going on and we interview people from the left and from the right.
		The Heritage Foundation's experts were frequent guests on the Voice of America, as were those at probably every other think tank in this town.
		What I would urge people to do is to make their own decisions about the Voice of America.
		The Americans are not the target audience.
		We're broadcasting to the rest of the world.
		But you can go to VOANews.com.
		The stories are frozen in amber from the middle of March.
		And you can read all these stories.
		If you want to see my material, it goes back more than a dozen years, I believe, online.
		And people can watch the TV pieces.
		They can read the scripts, listen to the radio stories, and decide for themselves whether they think that there's some bias or a tilt.
		As somebody who's pretty active on social media, I can tell you over the years, Mimi, people look at a headline and then without even watching the piece or reading the story, make their own conclusions.
		And we've been hit from the left, we've been hit from the right.
		And I think when you're getting it from both sides, maybe you're doing a pretty good job.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You wrote a piece for the fulcrum, and you wrote this, even before any of the Trump appointees returned to the U.S. Agency for Global Media, incumbent management at VOA sought to appease the White House.
		Stories were spiked and headlines massaged.
		Those were subtle changes unnoticed externally.
		Can you elaborate more and give us some examples?
unidentified		Yes, unfortunately, from the powers that be, who were not political appointees, there was what we interpreted as anticipatory obedience, that maybe if things are softened up a little bit, then when the political appointees come in, they won't be so rough on the place, so to speak.
		We warned that that wasn't going to happen because we had been there for the political turmoil at the end of the first Trump administration when there were similar attempts to turn us into what we thought would be a propaganda organization.
		What happened is I was put on paid administrative leave with the excuse that my social media was going to be investigated.
		And my successor is White House Bureau Chief Patsy Weedakusawar, who was doing an excellent job supervising about 10 White House correspondents from the various language services, was also removed involuntarily from that position.
		Coincidentally, Patsy and I had been prominent figures at the end of the first Trump administration, becoming whistleblowers and fighting against what we saw were breaches of that firewall and not adhering to the VOA charter.
		It's a law.
		We have to follow the law.
		Patsy was civil service.
		I was foreign service.
		We do not take a pledge to any particular administration.
		We take a pledge to the Constitution of the United States.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And if you'd like to call in and ask a question about the Voice of America to Steve Herman, you can do so.
		Democrats, 2027-8000.
		Republicans, 202-748-8001.
		And Independents, 202-748-8002.
		Steve, I want to show you Kerry Lake, who runs the agency overseeing The Voice of America.
		She testified before Congress.
		Again, this is last month, about what she said were problems.
unidentified		I was there.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
kari lake ▲ ● ▼		They also sidestepped their charter to be reliable authoritative news instead, being riddled with political bias and outright anti-American sentiment.
		Examples, you mentioned it, Chairman, refusing to call Hamas terrorists, glamorizing Che Guevara, airing campaign-style videos favoring President Biden, even broadcasting a graphic depicting President Trump with a swastika over his face on their news.
		I wouldn't want that, by the way, even if it was President Biden.
		That's totally inappropriate.
		And a ridiculous editorial firewall prevents agency leadership like myself from correcting any of the bias or having any say in the editorial content that goes on the air.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Steve, you said you were there.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What's your reaction to that?
unidentified		Yes.
		Well, she said, quote, ridiculous editorial firewall.
		It's a law, and it's a firewall for a reason to prevent exactly this, from turning the Voice of America into a propaganda agency.
		There is a mechanism to investigate any perceived errors or wrongdoing.
		The OA had its own self-correcting mechanism.
		I was actually working in standards and practices on a detail for a period of months.
		There was an international broadcasting advisory board, which was conveniently fired by the president before Kerry Lake was put in as a special advisor, which a lot of people maintain was an illegal action.
		There were also investigations after the first Trump administration when we had the incidents of the breach of the firewall and we went to federal court.
		And the Office of Inspector General and Office of Special Counsel investigated and deemed that the journalists at the Voice of America were doing their jobs.
		Congress also has a role to play here.
		They're the ones who allocate the money for the Voice of America.
		They can dictate changes at the Voice of America.
		But to have one person come in and essentially ransack the place, throw 1,400 people out of week, out of work, and flip a switch, silencing all of the Voice of America radio and television transmissions in dozens of languages does not appear to be very prudent management of something that a lot of people regard as an 83-year-old American institution.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		I want to ask you about this Reuters article from May, and the headline is right-wing One America News to provide news feed to Voice of America.
		We haven't heard anything since that.
		What's happening with that?
		Is that in fact what's happening?
unidentified		As far as I know, none of this material has been used on the air.
		When you go into the lobby of the Voice of America, one of the TV sets is tuned to One America News.
		But as Kerry Lake herself said in that congressional testimony, she cannot dictate legally what goes on the air.
		So she's decided just to basically shut everything down.
		Putting One America News or MSNBC content on The Voice of America, besides the legal and copyright issues, would not be very balanced programming, obviously.
		Voice of America was originating most of its content.
		It subscribed to the Associated Press television service, Reuters TV, AFP television as well, to get those video clips of events happening around the world to put in the newscasts.
		Well, Kerry Lake also canceled those contracts just before she essentially got rid of everybody.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Now, once Voice of America largely went off the air, where are those people getting their news now about the United States?
unidentified		Yeah, that's a great question, Mimi.
		Well, that void is being filled, unfortunately, to some degree by voices coming out of the People's Republic of China, because shortwave radio, which a lot of people consider to be anachronistic, it is still being used heavily by the Chinese and others.
		The satellite TV feeds have gone silenced.
		We've lost our hundreds and hundreds of affiliated TV and radio stations around the world.
		We had 24-7 FM transmitters in major capitals in Africa all silent.
		And some of that material will be filled, that airtime, empty airtime, by the Chinese and others.
		There are others, including the Iranians, Press TV, which is a 24-7 English language news operation.
		It does not say very good things about the United States.
		They're also not very accurate.
		And that's the case with CGTN as well.
		And you've heard about, I'm sure, the infamous RT, which used to be called Russia Today.
		These are slick outfits, and they're going on cable systems around the world where the Voice of America used to be.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And what's the fear of people getting their news that way about the U.S. and Voice of America not being there?
unidentified		Well, the Voice of America was mandated by law to reflect the United States, what was happening here, warts and all, which builds credibility.
		When people saw that the U.S. broadcaster was not only talking about all the great things that are happening in this country, but the debates that we have in this country about issues such as abortion, gun rights, transgender rights, and all of that.
		It doesn't mean we're taking a side by doing these stories.
		It shows you that there are debates in this country about these contentious issues.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So now that Voice of America is essentially not operating except very limited, what is Carrie Lake doing?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		I mean, is this still a full-time job to lead the organization that runs Voice of America?
unidentified		You'd have to ask her what is her intention because it keeps changing.
		She has gone on a few very conservative podcasts and news programs.
		I think all of us at the Voice of America would love to see her come on your program, for example, and explain and have you ask some tough questions.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, she is definitely invited to come on and hear from our viewers.
		And this is Judy in Baltimore, Maryland.
		Democrat, good morning.
unidentified		Hi.
		It seems to me that so many things that Trump is doing is just like driving us towards an isolationist point of view.
		And this is a question I don't know.
		When has being isolationists ever served us well?
		You know, in 30 years, it's probably going to take time for the ill effects of a lot of what he's doing to sort of surface.
		But, you know, 30 years from now, as China takes the lead in the world and Russia maybe somehow rebounds, I don't know if it ever can, really.
		You know, I hope people who support Trump and everything he's doing, a lot of them won't be here, but I hope the ones that are here recognize what they've done to our country.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Judy.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, Steve.
unidentified		Yeah, well, the Voice of America was a hard edge of America's soft power, an instrument of public diplomacy.
		And we've seen what's happened with USAID, which also to some degree is a part of America's soft power and diplomacy, and the massive cuts that are happening with the diplomats and the civil servants at the Department of State.
		There's no doubt that this administration wants to scale all of that back.
		There were just some amicus briefs filed in federal court this week from dozens of flag officers retired from the U.S. military, former U.S. ambassadors, national security experts, who all told the court that VOA's mission is vital to America's national security because it is an instrument of soft power and public diplomacy, because they realize that putting out this information,
		showing what a free press is about, and reporting accurately and fairly can prevent some really bad things from happening in different parts of the world.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And Chris is in Silver Spring, Maryland, Independent Line.
		Chris used to work for the Voice of America.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, and thanks for taking my call.
		I was a technician at VOA.
		Before that, I actually interviewed at C-SPAN and got a tour of the place during my interview, and it was wonderful.
		But I spent a few decades at VOA.
		And I know Mr. Herman, and I know Mrs. Patiwaskara.
		They're good people.
		They're very professional.
		And what has happened to my former coworkers is disgusting.
		And I just wanted to say that.
		Yeah, there's a huge human toll to all of this as well.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		On the Republican line in Statham, Georgia, Jack, you're on with Steve Herman.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		Thank you for taking my call, and thank you for doing what C-SPAN does.
		I am a total Trump supporter, but you cannot take Voice of America and defund them, as you would want to say.
		I don't agree with that.
		I mean, I am an avid deer hunter, but, and I mean, I'm Second Amendment, but the transgender debate needs to be brought out.
		You've got to see both sides of it, either you agree with it or not.
		And like I said, I am a total Trump supporter, but some things should not be limited to people.
		You got to hear both sides.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So, Jack, tell us why you think Voice of America should stay on the air.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Why do you disagree with President Trump's decision on that?
unidentified		Well, free press, ma'am.
		I mean, even though I might not agree with something, you can't silence somebody, other people who might feel that way.
		I mean, that's why the men and women of this nation have died and fought for this country, regardless if it's like this, ma'am.
		I am not an AR type person.
		I am a deer hunter.
		And I might not necessarily like an AR-15 that doesn't do me no good because I hunt deer and wild hogs.
		But it doesn't mean somebody doesn't have a right.
		I shouldn't be against them having one if that's what they choose to own.
		It's like the transgender.
		I do not think that kids should be trained and given steroids and stuff.
		When they grow up to be 18 years old, then let them make their own decision.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jack.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's hear from Steve Herman.
unidentified		Well, yeah, it's exactly what Jack is talking about.
		We have a problem in this country with media literacy, people not realizing what is a well-articulated news story versus some slop that is disinformation coming out of Russia that somebody sent you on Facebook.
		And that's something that I'm working on advocating about in my new role at the Jordan Center for Journalism Advocacy and Innovation at the University of Mississippi.
		But there's also with the algorithms and everything, a strong desire for what's called confirmation bias.
		People just want to hear their views reinforced.
		And, you know, in the old days, you've got the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal sitting on your desk here.
		You would read these, and you could have different newspapers that would have different political views.
		But you read them, even if you didn't agree with them, because you wanted to be well-informed.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk to Nancy in Albany, Georgia, Independent Line.
unidentified		I want to know why they want to stop this guy and the other woman with that kind of news.
		And then why would President Trump want to do that?
		I would prefer the truth to come out on everything.
		Just like he always stirring up stuff, just breaking the people up, just destroying our nation.
		Talking about left and right.
		It's no such thing as left wing or right wing.
		We are all of God's children.
		We should be surviving together.
		And by the undocked immigrants, ain't no such thing as aliens.
		Aliens is somebody that you can identify.
		These people are human beings.
		I don't agree with a lot of things that Democrats said.
		Not a Republican.
		Because we all are God's children.
		And we shouldn't be identified as aliens.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Nancy, getting a little bit off the subject, but go ahead, Steve.
unidentified		Yeah, I was covering the first term of Donald Trump as a White House reporter.
		I was on more than 100 Air Force One flights, the trips overseas in the Oval Office frequently.
		And my primary job was to relay accurately what he was saying.
		Then would come the analysis.
		We would go out, if the president said something that was controversial, we would go out and talk to people at think tanks, academics, other politicians to tell, to try to put it in context for people in the rest of the world.
		And that's what is really important.
		And we were doing at The Voice of America.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Stephen New York sent this on text.
		He says, this is a simple true or false question.
		Was there ever a memo or rule at VOA requiring that Hamas and similar organizations not be called terrorists?
		The answer would be decisive.
unidentified		Yeah, it's not a yes or no answer because it's the way that we referred to Hamas and terrorism.
		If people called Hamas terrorists, we quoted them saying that.
		But there was a debate for a period of time looking at the style guide of the Associated Press and what to refer to these groups as.
		And it was adjusted.
		And like I said, we have an internal self-correcting mechanism, standards and practices.
		When these issues come up, we debate them.
		And this particular one did garner some outside criticism, and there was reflection on it, and changes were made.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Changes were made to them not being called terrorists or to going back to calling them terrorists.
unidentified		Well, it depends who's calling them terrorists, but to refer to it...
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		But your reporters would not call them a terrorist organization.
unidentified		It depended.
		And again, there was a lot of different things going on among the 49 language services.
		So I can't tell you what was happening in every single language.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Just in English.
unidentified		Yes.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		James in Akron, Ohio.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Democrat, good morning, James.
unidentified		I have a couple statements and a question about public broadcasting.
		But two statements I'll make real quick.
		One was about the Trump administration saying that Russia, Russia, Russia was false, where there was seven individuals that pleaded guilty to the charges.
		So you can't plead guilty to something you didn't do, but they keep saying it's a lie.
		And the other thing is, why, here's my question, and I'll leave the other out.
		The question is, why is it every time we get a Republican administration, they want to eliminate public broadcasting, anything that will benefit the poor or the smaller people around the world?
		And I just don't understand it.
pastor james david manning ▲ ● ▼		If they are so American and so First Amendment and Second Amendment rights, why do they want to eliminate public broadcasting?
unidentified		I'm not a Republican member of Congress or someone who works in the White House, so you would have to ask them about it.
		I would just say, you know, there are a lot of people, Republican and Democrats, who believe that public broadcasting serves a very vital role in this country.
		As the caller pointed out, it does serve.
		I drive across the country, turn on the radio, and sometimes the only thing you can hear that is not, say, religious broadcasting is the public radio station.
		These are vital parts of a culture in a small town.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And you should probably delineate the difference between public broadcasting, which is like PBS and NPR, and the Voice of America.
unidentified		The Voice of America is an external broadcasting service.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So you can't really get it in the United States unless you get it on.
unidentified		Well, you can go to VOANews.com and look at every story we're doing.
		You can go to the websites or could of the different language services.
		You could pick it up on the shortwave radio for the few shortwave radio broadcasts that were still left.
		It wasn't intended, and it's not written for Americans.
		We're trying to explain in Swahili or in Korean for people in North Korea, for example, or in Ukrainian or Spanish about what's happening in this country.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		We got a posting on X who's asking you, why can't you just get a TikTok account and broadcast there?
unidentified		Well, first of all, U.S. government agencies using TikTok is currently problematic.
		But the Voice of America was using social media.
		WhatsApp and Facebook and what the language services would look at.
		What's the most effective social media platform to use to reach that particular country?
		I remember sitting in Yangon in Burma looking at Facebook and watching the nightly Voice of America broadcast in the Burmese language.
		And that was a major way that people in Myanmar were receiving those broadcasts was online on social media.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		David in Kenosha, Wisconsin, Republican, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Go right ahead, David.
unidentified		I have a question for Steve Herman, who used to former Voice of America national correspondent.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Yes, go right ahead.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air.
unidentified		Kenosha, Wisconsin, Republican, good morning.
		Good morning.
		Good morning.
		I have a question for Mr. Herman.
		Why were the cuts made to VOA?
		It's a great question.
		And again, I would hope Kerry Lake would come on the show and answer that.
		I can only tell you what it was like to be on the receiving end of these cuts.
		And we're puzzled, and we don't think it was justified.
		And in court, the lawyers have argued and federal judges have concurred that these were arbitrary and capricious moves and should be reversed.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You said that you had experienced the first Trump administration and that there was some animosity there from the administration.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		When President Trump won the election again and was coming back into office, were you expecting VOA could be shut down completely?
unidentified		No, I don't think anybody was.
		We knew that there were probably going to be changes because I'm sure something that's been discussed on this program many times, Project 2025 from the Heritage Foundation, there was a chapter in there about the Voice of America and our parent agency, USAGM.
		And it was obvious that, according to that playbook, that they did want to make changes.
		For example, putting the Voice of America under either the State Department or the National Security Council.
		So we expected there would be a battle for the soul of the Voice of America, but we did not expect that a dagger would be driven through its heart.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Dan in North Bend, Oregon, Republican.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Dan.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I have a question.
		Is there any chance that these cuts that have been instituted to VOA are going to be reversed and the funding come back?
		And did I hear it said that Voice America isn't broadcasted here in the United States?
		Yes, that is correct, Dan, because it's an external broadcasting service.
		The funds for the Voice of America have not legally been cut.
		Those funds were allocated by Congress, and there was this arbitrary and capricious move made not to spend this money.
		Also for Radio Free Europe and Radio Free Asia, which are under the U.S. AGM umbrella, those broadcasters are grantees, where Voice of America and the Office of Cuba Broadcasting are 100% under the federal government.
		There's big discussion right now about the fiscal year, next fiscal year federal budget.
		And I know in the House and in the Senate, there are debates about how much money should be allocated for U.S. international broadcasting.
		So for those who would like to see the Voice of America revived and funded again, they need to contact their representatives in Congress.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You started a new job earlier this month at the University of Mississippi, focused on advocating for journalism and finding new ways to cover stories.
		What's the future of journalism, do you think?
		What's the next thing that's out there?
unidentified		Mimi, it's a great question.
		I think we're seeing an existential threat to traditional journalism.
		There are fundamental changes being made.
		Maybe journalists need to have a completely different approach to how they tell their stories.
		And there are a lot of people attempting to do this on social media.
		And so one thing we might be able to do is to help give journalism training to all these people, a citizen journalist.
		There are also people going out and covering for a blog.
		They may be the only person in these news deserts now covering what's going on with city or county government.
		A lot of them are volunteering.
		They don't have the time or inclination to go to a university for four years to get a journalism degree.
		But maybe there's a streamlined way to give them some education in the fundamentals of journalism.
		I think it all goes back to the basics of who, what, where, when, why, and gathering all the facts and being as fair and unbiased as you can.
		There is also advocacy journalism, as we're well aware of.
		But the question is, is like what platforms is this journalism going to be on?
		What form is it going to take?
		And for those that are doing it as a profession, how can they or the publishers at least have enough money to continue doing it?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's Steve Herman, former Voice of America national correspondent, currently the executive director at the University of Mississippi Jordan Center for Journalism, Advocacy, and Innovation.
		He's got a substack called News Guy if you'd like to check that out.
		Steve, thanks so much for joining us.
unidentified		Thank you for having me, Mimi.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And in a few minutes, we'll get an update from Texas as lawmakers there consider a new congressional map that would give Republicans more seats in the U.S. House.
		But until then, we're an open forum, your chance to weigh in on any political or public policy issue on your mind.
		Numbers are on your screen.
		You can start calling in right now.
unidentified		Book TV every Sunday on C-SPAN 2 features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books.
		Here's a look at what's coming up this weekend.
		Book TV continues the celebration of America's 250th with author conversations on the American Revolution.
		At 2 p.m. Eastern, contributors to the book Waging War in America, 1775 to 1783, discuss the operational challenges that American, British, French, and German military forces face during the conflict.
		And at 6:45 p.m., U.S. Marine Corps Major General Jason Bohm explores the origins of the Marine Corps, including the formation of the Continental Marines during the American Revolution, in his book, Washington's Marines.
		Then at 8 Eastern, Rick Atkinson shares his book, The Fate of the Day, examining the middle years of the Revolutionary War, from the 1777 capture of Fort Ticonderoga to the 1780 siege of Charleston.
		Also this weekend, at 5.30 p.m., how did the like button become so ubiquitous?
		Author Martin Reeves explores the origins of the thumbs up symbol and how it changed the internet with his book, Like, The Button That Changed the World.
		And at 10, Martha Blanding broke a color barrier at California's Disneyland, becoming the park's first black official tour guide in 1971.
		She tells the story of her 50-year career with the Walt Disney Company and of social and cultural change in her book, Groundbreaking Magic.
		Watch Book TV every Sunday on C-SPAN 2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org.
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		Thank you.
		Washington Journal continues.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back to Open Forum.
		Before we get to your calls, this headline from NBC News, Columbia agrees to pay $200 million to restore funding cut by the Trump administration.
		It says the Trump administration in March said it was canceling $400 million in grants to Columbia University, accusing it of, quote, inaction in the face of persistent harassment of Jewish students.
		This is a $200 million fine to settle with the federal government that would be paid over three years.
		That's at nbcnews.com if you'd like to see that.
		Jeff Galloway, Ohio, Republican.
		You're on Open Forum.
unidentified		Yeah, I like to say there's nothing more disgusting than adults doing what apparently has happened with the Epstein trial thing, but all the tapes they have, you can tell me they don't have a photo of any of these people that molested or whatever they did to these kids.
		That's ridiculous.
		Maybe the lady that's looking into it recognized somebody on the tapes, dad, uncle, whatever it may be.
		This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.
		And I am a very, very, what could I say, Republican.
		But what happened with all these kids be assaulted is ridiculous.
		It really is.
		I mean, get the tapes, show us.
		There's got to be somebody on here they can recognize.
		It was only a bunch of people that got to go to this island.
		Seriously.
		Thank you, Mimi.
		You look great today.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Roger, Democrat in Wayland, Missouri.
		Good morning.
		Roger, are you there?
unidentified		Yes.
		Everybody's talking about Epstein and those poor little kids.
		There's over 500 women who came out.
		150 of them made interviews.
		Can we show some interviews or maybe suggest a program where the victims can call in?
		Thank you so much.
		We need to straighten this world up.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		In Tucson, Arizona, Independent Line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Steve.
unidentified		Hi.
		In reference to your just a few minutes ago talking about Columbia University settling with Trump, and he's also gone after Harvard and probably several others for anti-Semitism.
		My question is, where was his concern for anti-Semitism, Semitism, when his supporters in Charlottesville were marching, carrying kiki torches, chanting, Jews will not replace us?
		I think at that time he said, good people on both sides.
		Hypocrisy.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Kell and Jessup Georgia, Republican line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		How are you doing?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		That's great.
		My comment, I would like to highlight or place emphasis on last week's topic, and that was the Doji $9 billion budget cut known as the rescission.
		With that budgeting, I think that a lot of people are out in the cold or in the dark, and it seems as if in regards to the doji efficiency and the product that it produces, in a sense.
		And the doge efficiency, the department of government efficiency, in order to be effective as a government, it must be efficient.
		It must use natural resources and provide provisioning in such a way that it will budget as smooth as possible as a government shall run.
		It's as similar to George Washington's government without slavery in a sense.
		However, the concern which face the public society is when people see products on the shelves, they may not think that that is efficient.
		However, that's provisioning of groceries.
		However, people do not think, okay, the peanut butter, it does not taste right, or the lay's potato chips, it does not taste right, or this taste is a little awkward, or whatever the case may be.
		All of that is the economy.
		However, Mr. Trump is coming in off of a kind of like a broke president type of administration.
		I hate to slander a Biden, however, that's the case may be.
		And he is putting forth efforts to kind of revamp or reinvigorate the economy.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		However, Kelly, I've got to move on.
		And I just want to make sure that you know about a couple of programs coming up later today.
		So 10 o'clock, right after this program on C-SPAN, we've got business executives will testify on their company's experiences using employee stock ownership plans.
		It's a form of retirement plan that gives workers' ownership interest in the company through shares of stock.
		That's a Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee hearing, and that will be live.
		Also, 12.30 p.m., Vermont Independent Senator Bernie Sanders will hold a town hall with more than 100 teachers and education leaders at the U.S. Capitol to discuss teacher pay.
		Massachusetts Democratic Senator Ed Markey will also be part of the discussion.
		You can see that here on C-SPAN at 12.30 Eastern Time.
		And then this afternoon, a Texas House Select Committee holds its first redistricting hearing after President Trump requested the state to redraw its congressional maps and Texas Governor Greg Abbott's call for a special legislative session.
		That will be live at 3 at C-SPAN.
		We'll also talk to a reporter soon about that.
		And here is Steve in Brilliant, Wisconsin, Independent Line.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yeah.
		One of the things that I'm seeing is there's saying that it's anti-Semitism going on.
		And to my mind, it's not really anti-Semitism.
		It's a matter of they're not against the people of the Hebrew faith.
		What they are against and what they're protesting about is the way the Israelis are treating the people in Gaza.
		They are essentially running a pogrom trying to destroy everybody in that little strip of land.
stanley k monteith ▲ ● ▼		Why, I am not sure, but it would be nice to know why if a protest is against, say, the people in the Middle East that are not Jewish, not of the Hebrew faith, it's okay, apparently.
unidentified		But a protest against people of the Hebrew faith in Israel that are killing people through starvation is not okay.
		It's not that anybody is against any religion.
		I personally don't care what a person believes or how they worship as long as they're not trying to jam it down my throat and as long as it does not involve human sacrifice.
		Other than that, go for it.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Steve.
		And we'll just pause on open forum, speak to a reporter.
		If you're on the line, please do stay on the line.
		Don't hang up.
		We will come back to you.
		But joining us now is Aaron Davis, a political reporter for Spectrum News One, Texas.
		Welcome to the program.
unidentified		Thanks for having me.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And we're talking to you today about the GOP legislature's efforts on redistricting.
		So typically, this will happen every 10 years around the census.
		Can you tell us why the legislature in Texas is taking this up now?
unidentified		Yeah, Governor Greg Abbott added redistricting to the special session agenda because of pressure from President Donald Trump.
		The president is very confident that if lawmakers redraw their congressional district maps, then Republicans can earn five additional Republican congressional districts.
		And he's looking at areas in Houston and one district in the North Texas area.
		And Trump also, you know, the Department of Justice sent a letter to the state basically saying that the original congressional map that was drawn in 2021, right after that census, was drawn racially gerrymandered, essentially.
		But Republicans who passed that map back in 2021 say that that map was drawn race blind.
		So kind of conflicting opinions there, but all of this stems from pressure from the president.
		And the governor, you know, heard what the president had to say and now has tasked lawmakers with redrawing that congressional map, maybe.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So what happens today?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What's the process?
unidentified		So today is the first of a number of public hearings where lawmakers will hear from the public what they have to say about what this map should look like.
		I imagine they will hear from people who are upset that they're creating new maps in the first place.
		But after all of these public hearings, lawmakers say they will then introduce a map in their respective chambers that they will then, you know, as the legislative process plays out, make changes and try and get a vote on these maps to get them to the governor and get them enacted in time for this upcoming election.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And what's been the reaction of Republican Governor Greg Abbott and other Republicans?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Is everyone on board with this process?
unidentified		Well, there was some reporting that Governor Greg Abbott was hesitant at first to add this item to the special session agenda call.
		But as many of Trump's supporters do, they fall in line and listen to the president.
		So he added it to the call.
		I talked to the governor this week and asked him if he was concerned that maybe by creating five new Republican districts, that that would weaken the Republican voting power in some other strong conservative districts.
		But he said that he is not concerned.
		And also, when I talked with state lawmakers at the Capitol this week, the Republicans say that they are not concerned and that they want to make sure these maps are correct by the next election cycle.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And how are Democrats responding to this?
unidentified		Democrats are kind of in a tough position.
		You know, we have deadly floods here in Texas that are now on the special session agenda call, and they want to focus on that.
		They say that is not the reason that they are breaking quorum.
		Democrats have a history in Texas of doing this when redistricting comes up.
		Now they, you know, eventually get someone back to Texas so Republicans can have the numbers to officially take a vote on these maps.
		So Democrats are trying to balance whether now is the time to break quorum or should they wait to see how Republicans bring these bills up for a vote.
		They say if redistricting is up before flood response legislation, then they plan to break quorum.
		There are members who are ready to do it now, but obviously they want to make sure that they're all on the same page before leaving the Capitol, Mimi.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And as you just mentioned, the deadly flooding in Texas is on the agenda.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What are you watching there?
unidentified		Well, we're paying attention to see how lawmakers respond.
		Texas, unfortunately, has a history of some pretty deadly natural disasters.
		And following that, people are really critical of what lawmakers do in response.
		They had a hearing just yesterday to talk about flood response where all they did was hear from statewide officials.
		And you saw Republicans trying not to point fingers for what broke down and what caused so many deaths.
		But a lot of Democrats were very critical in pointing fingers, frankly, and trying to say, you know, you all are patting yourselves on the back and saying these are your processes, but still over 100 people died.
		So what went wrong and what are those solutions?
		And Republicans were critical, but chairman of that committee, who is a Republican, he really emphasized the fact that he did not want these hearings to be combative and he wanted to focus on what the next steps would be.
		So in terms of that flood response, we may not see bills make any progress until after these public hearings have taken place.
		They plan to go to Kerrville where some of the deadliest portion of that flooding took place to hear from residents on the ground and to hear from the public to see what they think went wrong and to see what the legislature should do next.
		But obviously there is a lot of attention on that flood response and a lot of attention on redistricting, Mimi.
		So now it's just seeing which bills the legislature moves first.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, political reporter for Spectrum News 1 Texas, Aaron Davis.
		Thanks so much for joining us today.
		And again, if you're interested in that redistricting, the first hearing on that will be taking place today.
		We'll have live coverage of that starting at 3 p.m. Eastern Time.
		That's happening in Austin, but you can watch it on C-SPAN on C-SPANNOW and C-SPAN.org.
		Back to your calls for open forum, Republican line, Hillsboro, Missouri.
		Robert, you're on the air.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		I want to make a statement.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You got to turn down your TV, Robert.
unidentified		And I'm a Republican now.
		I was raised Democrat because I'm union.
		You're on the air.
		Go ahead.
		But if you ever ask me why, it's because of my dad, my friend.
		Well, Robert, can you turn down your TV?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Because we're hearing it in the background.
unidentified		Let me get rid of it.
		And, you know, I was raised Democrat.
		I don't know why.
		Because of my union, my dad knows.
		Well, with Trump gets in here, he makes a lot of sense on everything.
		Everything.
		And mostly Democrats, all they want to bitch about is, you know, Trump ain't this and all that.
		It's not, they know what's what Trump do is true and good, but they just want to bitch about it because, you know, I have no idea.
		Neither do I.
		And neither do they.
		So personally, I think we need to get rid of the Democrats, stay Republicans, and have one president until he decides to get out.
		If it's like Russia or Japan, China, that so be that just one person rude this country.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Robert Paulette, Monticello, Florida, Democrat.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Three things.
		There have been no arrests of any Johns, and they've had over 1,000 victims regarding the Epstein case.
		Also, there have been no arrests for any CEOs that are hiring illegal immigrants.
		And there have been no arrests for anyone at Dignity Health in California for organ harvesting.
		There are missing people.
		Their loved ones are looking for them.
		And they found out that they were buried or in a morgue and they were missing body parts.
		So these are some of the things that keep me up at night.
		And to the last caller, I think it's too early to be drinking.
		Have a good day.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Mary Lou, Mapleshade, New Jersey, Independent Line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, Mary Lou.
unidentified		Hi, Mimi.
		Thank you for C-SPAN.
		I want to echo like a compilation of what people are talking about.
		And I know my main frustration, and I think many others, is the way things are happening in our government.
		And by that, I mean many people are frustrated and angry because we see important issues come up like COVID, like the Biden family with the Hunter laptop, the auto pennail and Biden's condition when he was president, and now the latest one involving Obama and his administration.
		And the thing that is so unnerving is you will have these lawmakers say they're going to investigate these issues, then they're going to form committees, maybe get an inspector general to oversee it, and then it dies.
		We never have any accountability, Mimi.
		And we all know that if we were in this position, it was common, ordinary us, we would be thrown in jail and have the book thrown at us.
		Now, I am hoping that with what's coming out about many of these issues, something will finally be done.
		And the sad part is they never really get to the people that orchestrate this, the architects of these horrible things that are being done.
		And then the Democrats get up and say, we're losing our democracy.
		We don't have a democracy.
		We have a democratic republic.
		And for those who don't know the difference, a democracy is when the people rule.
		A democratic republic is when we elect people to rule for us.
		And obviously, some of us are not choosing the right people to run our government.
		So I just pray that with God's help, we can get this country where it needs to be.
		And people need to stop being so ready to blame everybody else and look to yourself when you go to vote.
		Make sure you know who and what you are voting for.
		Thank you, Mimi, and have a good day.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Mary Lou.
		And this is Lena, a Republican in Logan, Utah.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		It's my understanding that the government funds only 5% of PBS and NPR.
		And if that's the case, why don't the elite pick up the tab they donate anyway?
		And then also, journalists seem to give their own opinions instead of the news.
		And it was really sad the other day a guy called in and he said that he gets his news from the late night shows.
		I thought that was crazy and so sad that the late night shows in the view are just for entertainment.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And some news for you from the Washington Post.
		This is on the front page.
		It says this evidence of classified details in signal chat.
		HegSeth messages were derived from secret email.
		Watchdog is told it says the Pentagon's independent watchdog has received evidence that messages from Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's signal account previewing a U.S. bombing campaign in Yemen were derived from a classified email labeled secret, no foreign.
		People familiar with the matter said the revelation appears to contradict long-standing claims by the Trump administration that no classified information was divulged in unclassified group chats that critics have called a significant security breach.
		That's the Washington Post.
		If you'd like to see the rest of that, here's Amy, St. Petersburg, Florida, Independent Line.
unidentified		Yes, I was calling in.
		I've written my senator, my governor, I've written the president.
		My son was ran over in 2010.
		My second son was burned in the mobile home fire.
		I was shot in my home.
		Nobody's paying for this.
		It was Cop's brother who did it.
		He's a child predator.
		He molested my daughter.
		Now he's in the home with two new children.
		Who investigates the cops when the cops are involved in crimes such as these?
		We go to war for people burning and killing children and molesting them, yet it happens every day in our country, and nobody's doing anything about it.
		Is there any advice you could give me on who to write or who investigates the police?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		I would think you'd have to keep going with the governor and your state and local officials, Amy.
		And best of luck to you on that.
		Lincoln in Alexandria, Virginia, Democrat, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I'd just like to say that I think the stuff going on in the House with Speaker Johnson cutting off the proceedings to avoid an Epstein vote is really just despicable.
		And a real bypassing of Democratic proceedings just to say that they can't have a vote because they'll treat it wrong and make it into a political game.
		And it's the biggest admission of guilt that they could possibly have.
		And I think that Speaker Johnson has no spine or no brain.
		And that's all.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		John in Buzzards Bay, Massachusetts, Republican.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, I'm John.
		I'm just kind of concerned with all the news seems to be all kinds of like fluff, like the Epstein and whether PBS loses money for Sesame Street or the Radio Free Europe or whatever.
		But I mean, there's got to be more coverage of the Plump has put a lot of incentives for factories and manufacturing jobs to come back for, you know, all these illegal immigrants want to come.
		Well, this will be a perfect opportunity for them to legally come in and start getting some of these factories going in various states where, you know, people don't, people, people try to get some kind of mystery disability so they can have some sustenance to pay, you know, for their life.
		People aren't trying to find work these days because there's not a strong push.
		And it's very obvious, like you get the Obama thing where now Obama is being accused of the Russia gate and all that.
		This is all news that does not help families to earn a living and pay the cost of food on the table and the rent and all the skyrocketing bills we have.
		And I wish there would be more news promoting jobs that help families to thrive.
		And that's what I got to say.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Douglas, Laramie, Wyoming, Independent Line, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		On Wednesday, July 23rd, I heard Christy Noam, our Secretary of Homeland Security, speak as if the verb, as if she made no distinction between the verbs perpetrate and perpetuate.
		My random house dictionary says to perpetrate is to commit, as in perpetrate a crime, whereas to perpetuate is to make perpetual, everlasting, continuing, or enduring forever, or lasting an indefinitely long time, or continuing without intermission or interruption.
		I suggest simply that it may be helpful and useful to distinguish between the verbs perpetrate and perpetuate.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, Douglas.
		This is Sean in Portland, Oregon, a Republican.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Social 028649822.
		I was a member of the little Chinese man in Hiroshima at G7 Conference 2020.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Bill in Midland, Michigan, Democrat.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Bill.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I just got a couple quick comments about the Epstein thing.
		That's SAGA.
		Anybody that knew that Epstein was molesting young girls is a pedophile just as much as the guy that's doing it.
		And the other comment I got is: I heard the other day Donald Trump wants to name the Kennedy Center after Melania Trump.
		And what has she ever done to earn that?
		And I thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk to Ray in Lawrenceville, Georgia, Independent Line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Ray.
unidentified		Good morning.
		It's amazing that Republicans fall for Trump and the things he throws out there.
		There's nothing with Barack Obama.
		The reason they have all these investigations and Bobaluski and the Biden crime family, and it turns into nothing because it is nothing.
		There's nothing like Obama.
		There is no case.
		They're making it up to distract you.
		Trump said he loves the uneducated, and it seems like they follow him down that same rabbit hole.
		They only listen to Fox News, a network who paid almost a billion dollars for wine.
		That's where they get their information from.
		They're all brainwashed, and it's just a cult, and it's sad.
		Have a good day.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		On the Independent Line in Schomburg, Illinois, Art, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		I'd like to, yes, ma'am.
		I'm sorry.
		I'd like to make a comment about the Epstein list and Trump.
		Trump's not the reason.
		He's a diversion.
		Actually on those lists are major contributors to every party.
		And once those names come out, how could those parties ever take money from a known pedophile?
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And Carrie's next.
		Westville, Illinois, Democrat.
		Hi, Kerry.
unidentified		Yes.
		I just wanted to call.
		Earlier, you had a thing where the Supreme Court could release the documents on that.
		Well, the reason was they did not talk to the victims.
		You've got to talk to them to get it clear.
		That's the judge also said that to them, and they knew that.
		Any big shot office holder for Trump knew that.
		So that's why it got delayed.
		And he also said anybody can release that.
		They had the lawyer that represented 200 of those victims of Esteem.
		And they don't want this to drag out.
		If you're going to do it, do it.
		Release the files of the skin all over with because two of those girls done committed suicide.
		They're dead.
		And they had the testimony of one girl talking.
		She started when she was 14 with Estee.
		He kept her until she got too old at 18.
		That was on MSNBC last night.
		Thank you for letting me call in.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Kerry.
		And we are standing by to take you to the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee for their live hearing set to start any minute now.
		We are just waiting for the chairman and the ranking members to go ahead and come into the room, and then we'll take you.
		This is Mike in Florida, Independent Line.
		Good morning, Mike.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I'm calling in response to the Texas legislature redrawing their districts.
		I wanted to advocate for direct voter approval of districts so that to in order to mitigate gerrymandering.

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