| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| So we need to expand it and make sure we're on all of those platforms as well as the ones we already are on. | ||
| So thank you again to Senator Grassley for working with me to highlight C-SPAN's critical role and thanks to everyone who has had a hand in C-SPAN's success. | ||
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unidentified
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Democracy. | |
| It isn't just an idea. | ||
| It's a process. | ||
| A process shaped by leaders elected to the highest offices and entrusted to a select few with guarding its basic principles. | ||
| It's where debates unfold, decisions are made, and the nation's course is charted. | ||
| Democracy in real time. | ||
| This is your government at work. | ||
| This is C-SPAN, giving you your democracy unfiltered. | ||
| We are back with Rafael Mangual. | ||
| He is the author of Criminal Injustice, and he's also the Nick O'Nell Fellow at the Manhattan Institute, here to talk about immigration enforcement in cities and protests that we're seeing. | ||
| Let's begin with your thoughts on the ICE protests in LA and just the argument behind those that are opposed to them. | ||
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unidentified
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Yeah, I mean, well, I think the most important thing to note about the protests is how quickly they devolved into riots. | |
| And I do think that that's ultimately going to be the story that sticks here with what we saw in Los Angeles, and rightfully so. | ||
| You know, the rule cannot be that the basic enforcement of laws that have been on the books for many decades now, you know, it justifies a violent response. | ||
| And I think that has been particularly frustrating for the public to see. | ||
| I think it's been incredibly frustrating for the administration that's trying to carry out its electoral mandate. | ||
| But I think ultimately it highlights a pre-existing political problem for the American left, which is that they're increasingly becoming associated with violence and disorder as sort of part of the political activism brand. | ||
| What is the argument for these ICE raids? | ||
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unidentified
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Well, I think the basic argument is that at least what we saw in LA, these were raids that were targeting criminal offenders who had judicial warrants for removal. | |
| And ICE exists to enforce existing immigration law. | ||
| And unfortunately, over the last several years, we have seen a massive influx of people into the country who don't have a right to stay here. | ||
| And the reason that we have immigration enforcement officers is to carry out the legal mandate of enforcing immigration law, which means that when people are found to have either overstate a visa or to have crossed into the country illegally, we have mechanisms in place through which they need to be removed. | ||
| That is something that has broad public support. | ||
| And it is something that I think is a pretty basic federal law enforcement function. | ||
| What I think we should not be seeing, that we're seeing increasingly regularly, is that these basic enforcement measures are being met with violence, with resistance, and in Los Angeles' case, a couple weeks ago, with riots. | ||
| What is a sanctuary city and what is your stance on it? | ||
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unidentified
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Yeah, I mean, so the sanctuary city policy is basically a policy through which a municipality decides that they are no longer going to cooperate with the federal government's immigration enforcement efforts. | |
| So, for example, there might be a detainee in a city jail or a county jail that is set to be removed from the country for an immigration violation. | ||
| Immigration authorities will often issue what's called a detainer, which is basically a request to the municipality to hand over that individual once they are out of being released from the municipality's care to federal immigration officers so that they can smoothly carry out their deportation efforts. | ||
| Sanctuary cities, that policy basically says we are not going to do that. | ||
| We're not going to take those steps to facilitate the enforcement of immigration law, which means that immigration authorities have to kind of take a more aggressive approach. | ||
| They have to, you know, it requires more officers. | ||
| They can't simply, you know, go into the jail and take custody of somebody in a much more controlled environment. | ||
| Instead, cities are often releasing these individuals without notifying ICE Immigration and Customs Enforcement or Border Patrol or whichever agency is in charge. | ||
| And that ultimately, I think, is an unpopular thing in most of the country. | ||
| As you know, three Democratic governors testified on Capitol Hill recently, Governor J.B. Pritzker of Illinois, Governor Tim Walz of Minnesota, and Governor Kathy Hochle of New York on sanctuary policies. | ||
| Listen to the New York governor talk about the, before the oversight committee, about sanctuary policies and immigration. | ||
| She defended this state's policies and said there's no sanctuary for people who commit crimes. | ||
| Some of you will use this hearing to stoke fear. | ||
| I'm here to talk about the facts. | ||
| New York has managed an unprecedented immigrant influx because of a broken border. | ||
| Yet at the same time, our state has become stronger and safer. | ||
| Today, New York has the lowest homicide rate among the nation's top 10 states. | ||
| We didn't achieve this with indiscriminate roundups, not by tearing apart innocent families, but by investing $2.6 billion in public safety, engaging in smart, targeted policing, and partnering with law enforcement, federal law enforcement, to apprehend and deport serious criminals. | ||
| And since I become governor, we've cooperated in handing over 1,300 convicted criminals to ICE. | ||
| But what we don't do is civil immigration enforcement. | ||
| That's the federal government's job. | ||
| New Yorkers need their state troopers on our highways seizing guns and drugs. | ||
| States like mine are doing our part, but we can't be expected to fix the broken immigration system. | ||
| Rafael Mangual, respond there to the New York governor. | ||
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unidentified
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Yeah, I think she's engaging in a kind of interesting sleight of hand. | |
| I mean, notice that she says that they have turned over 1,300 and emphasized the word convicted criminals, right? | ||
| This is sort of a key part of the sanctuary city policy, right? | ||
| It does not apply to instances in which somebody has been convicted and is in state custody. | ||
| Those individuals will be turned over, but there are a number of people who have been arrested and charged with serious crimes who may have prior conviction records. | ||
| But because those individuals have not been convicted in the instant case, those individuals are not being turned over despite a detainer request. | ||
| And that's where I think more cooperation could exist, where, you know, in lots of jurisdictions around the country, for example, ICE sometimes has an office within a county or municipal jail so that individuals who have detainers on them can be very smoothly transitioned into federal custody in a controlled environment. | ||
| The state is pretending there that it would take some significant amount of law enforcement resources to be taken away from traditional policing in order to facilitate the detainer requests. | ||
| And that's just not the case. | ||
| In a lot of these instances, these are individuals who are already in local custody for pending criminal charges that could easily be turned over, but are not pursuant to a misguided policy. | ||
| We are talking this morning with Rafael Mangual. | ||
| He is with the Manhattan Institute, the Nick O'Nell Fellow there, and also the author of the book Criminal Injustice. | ||
| We invite you to join the conversation this morning to talk about sanctuary city policies, these ICE raids and immigration here in the United States. | ||
| Republicans dial in at 202-748-8001. | ||
| Democrats 202-748-8000. | ||
| And Independents, 202-748-8002. | ||
| You can also text if you'd like at 202-748-8003. | ||
| Just include your first name, city, and state. | ||
| Rafael Mangual, I want to show our viewers a recent poll, a Pew Poll, that found that the Americans have mixed to negative views of the Trump administration's immigration actions. | ||
| 42%, 47 approve, while 47% disapprove. | ||
| What do you make of this? | ||
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unidentified
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I mean, it's not entirely surprising. | |
| I mean, when you look at what has essentially become a sort of coordinated mass media campaign to demonize this administration's immigration enforcement efforts, you know, and you consider that most people are really just casual observers of these sort of public debates and casual consumers of mainstream news, it's not at all surprising that some people are coming away with the impression that the administration's approach to immigration enforcement is reckless or misguided or even, you know, malicious. | ||
| You know, you have people in positions of power, whether that's, you know, L.A. Mayor Karen Bass or California Governor Gavin Newsom and media personalities across various institutions, you know, referring to ICE agents as sort of massed secret police or the Gestapo or calling these raids sort of irresponsible, chaotic, and examples of sowing terror. | ||
| You know, that sort of rhetoric eventually bleeds through. | ||
| It's also why I think we've seen kind of the violent response to these basic immigration enforcement campaigns that we saw in L.A. You know, so ultimately, I don't think that rhetoric really helps anybody. | ||
| It doesn't provide clarity for the public. | ||
| It creates confusion and actually is the source of some of the chaos that a lot of these individuals are decrying themselves. | ||
| All right, President Trump in a Truth Social post this week. | ||
| I want ICE, Border Patrol, and our great and patriotic law enforcement officers to focus on our crime-ridden and deadly inner cities and those places where sanctuary cities play such a big role. | ||
| He wrote, the American people want on Truth Social, our cities, schools, and communities to be safe and free from illegal analyan crime, conflict, and chaos. | ||
| That's why I have directed my entire administration to put every resource possible behind this effort and reverse the tide of mass destruction migration that has turned once idyllic towns into scenes of third world dystopia. | ||
| Cheryl in Pennsylvania, Independent. | ||
| Welcome to the conversation. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
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Thank you, and good morning to you. | |
| Good morning. | ||
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unidentified
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Thanks for the job you do. | |
| I live in a small borough in Westgrove, Pennsylvania, okay? | ||
| And we have had three explosions. | ||
| They've thrown the bombs in. | ||
| And we also had an immigrant, an illegal, who shook a baby and brought the baby here to Westgrove and hid it in the house. | ||
| When I asked the state police, he said, we've got to deal with them. | ||
| They're here. | ||
| That is not an answer. | ||
| I don't want to live in fear. | ||
| It is just me and my cat, Smokey McGee, and my sister's up on Harmony. | ||
| And I witness drug dealing, sir. | ||
| Drug dealing right in front of me. | ||
| And then the cars. | ||
| And there's roaches on top of roaches. | ||
| We never live like this. | ||
| We never change diapers. | ||
| My mother raised nine of us children, you know, and then they throw it. | ||
| They change the oil. | ||
| They look at you. | ||
| They run. | ||
| I don't want to live in fear. | ||
| I've lived a long time. | ||
| I'm a cancer survivor, and the good Lord has taken care of me. | ||
| All right, Cheryl. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Rafael Mangual. | ||
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unidentified
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Yeah, look, you know, I think it's important for people to feel secure in their communities. | |
| And, you know, when they see these stories of, you know, really horrific crimes being committed by people who didn't have a right to be here in the first place and who could have and should have been deported, you know, it really begs the question, which is like, what exactly are we doing here? |