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June 14, 2025 17:21-18:00 - CSPAN
38:57
Washington This Week
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mimi geerges
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unidentified
June 14th, witness a tribute to the Army's evolution from the Revolutionary War to today.
With nearly 7,000 soldiers and period in modern uniforms marching along Constitution Avenue near the National Mall.
The parade will showcase Army vehicles and equipment, aerial flyovers, and a timeline of U.S. Army history.
The celebration continues with a ceremonial enlistment and re-enlistment event featuring President Trump, dramatic parachute jumps by the Army's Golden Knights, a live concert, and a finale with fireworks.
Watch the U.S. Army's 250th anniversary parade and celebration today, starting at 6 p.m. Eastern on C-SPAN.
C-SPAN Now, our free mobile app, or online at c-span.org.
mimi geerges
Welcome back.
We are joined now by Charles Bowery.
He is Executive Director of the U.S. Army Center of the Military to discuss the Army's 250th anniversary and the history of the Army.
Charles, welcome to the program.
unidentified
Thank you for having me.
mimi geerges
So tell us about the U.S. Army Center of Military History.
unidentified
CMH is a part of the U.S. Army's Training and Doctrine Command, and so we are the Army's senior historical office and responsible for coordinating historical and museum programs across the U.S. Army.
mimi geerges
So you're the Army's senior historian then?
unidentified
In effect, the Army employs lots of historians in various roles.
I'm the most senior of those in rank, and my role at the level of the Army's command is to advocate for history and historians, for the use of the past in shaping a future and a more effective Army.
mimi geerges
And why do you think it's so important to have that history?
unidentified
Well, it really comes down to context and perspective, doesn't it?
And so historians ask questions about the past.
They use the past both in its material culture and its records.
And we see ourselves as historians, but also as staff officers.
And we're responsible for supporting Army leaders in making decisions using the events of the past to reach better and more effective decisions and operations.
But then also, I think we play a strong role in helping to develop and foster the Army's culture, which is a culture of resilience and a culture of serving something larger than yourself over time.
And so we help soldiers of all ranks to learn about how their personal past and their personal path nests inside a large, enduring organization like the Army.
mimi geerges
So the Army was created 250 years ago.
It was 1775.
Tell us about what was happening in 1775 that led to the creation of the Army.
unidentified
And it's a great story, and it really points to the fact that before we were a nation, we had an army.
And this Army was formed in the summer of 1775.
So after the first military events of the American Revolution in Massachusetts at Lexington and Concord, the New England colonies formed what they called an Army of Observation, which was camped around Boston, and they were in effect besieging the British troops in the city of Boston.
And in the month of May of 1775, the provincial Congress wrote to the Continental Congress and they said, hey, we're forming this Army to fight the British regulars here in Boston.
We think it would be more appropriate as an army that is serving a people who want to be free for the Continental Congress to assume oversight and management of this Army and in effect to make it an army of all of the rebelling colonies.
And so on the 14th of June, 1775, the Congress directed the raising of 10 companies of riflemen, six from Pennsylvania, two from Maryland, and two from Virginia, who were to march to Boston to join that army of observation.
But this would become an army of the United Colonies.
And so in effect, at this point, the Army becomes managed by the Continental Congress, and in effect, by the national government at that point, versus being a regional force of militias.
mimi geerges
And who's in command of that?
unidentified
Well, a Massachusetts militia general named Artemis Ward was the original commander of the Army.
But on the 15th of June, the Continental Congress debates and confers command of the Army on a Virginia militia colonel and colonial legislator named George Washington.
And so George Washington becomes the commanding general of the Army.
He leaves Philadelphia immediately, arrives in Cambridge, Massachusetts on July 2nd, and assumes command of what will become the Continental Army.
mimi geerges
If you've got a question about the Army's history, you can give us a call.
Our guest is Charles Bowery.
He is director, executive director of the U.S. Army Center of Military History.
Our lines are bipartisan.
Republicans are on 202-748-8001, Democrats on 202748-8000, and Independents 202-748-8002.
And our line for retired or active duty military is 202-748-8003.
That's the line you can also use to text us your comments.
What was that original mission of the Army?
Was it, were we in the middle of the War for Independence and the mission was independence for the colonies?
unidentified
Not initially.
And so initially, the approach and the vision of this Continental Congress was to pursue confirmation and a protection of their rights as Englishmen.
But it becomes quickly apparent across the year 1775 that what the colonies are really seeking is independence.
And so a movement for independence really grows within the Continental Congress.
There are advocates of both sides of this debate early on about whether we should pursue, again, rights as Englishmen or independence.
But it's clear from the writings of George Washington and some of his interactions that even at the command level of the Army, there's a growing spirit of independence.
And so later during the campaign around Boston, George Washington will write a letter to his opposite number, Thomas Gage, who's the commander of the British forces in Boston, because he is complaining to Gage about the treatment of Continental Army officers who've been taken prisoner.
And Gage replies that he only recognizes one authority in military law, and that is the commission of the King of England to serve as an officer.
And George Washington's indignant response is, well, we are serving a higher power.
We are serving a free people who are making decisions as a free people, and I can think of no higher commission than that cause of freedom.
And so these general ideas of human rights, of government by the people, begin to inform and shape this view that we're not English subjects, we are something different, and we are what become Americans.
mimi geerges
So how, that original very small army that the United States had, what were the characteristics of it?
What were the guidelines?
I mean, I would assume that it was created in the image of the British Army, since that's what the colonists knew.
unidentified
That's exactly right.
So George Washington's charge is to take an encampment of several thousand militiamen, mainly from the New England colonies.
Others begin to arrive from the Mid-Atlantic, some from the southern colonies in the course of the summer.
But his task is to mold this army of citizen soldiers into an army that is European in its aspect.
And as you described it, the British Army at that point is the world's foremost army.
And so they're the model.
So 18th century military science means that you have an army that is uniformed uniformly.
It is equipped.
It is trained to execute the battlefield tactics of the day, to conduct siege operations, to use artillery.
All of these techniques of military science are not really in the spirit or in the background of militia soldiers.
And so he's got to meet the army where it is, which is a group of citizen soldiers, but he's also got to impress on them the need for things like military discipline or hygiene or good order and discipline, applying military law to an encampment.
And so he spends the summer forming this army into units.
And so that means you're going to select officers and you're going to commission officers at various ranks.
But you're also going to undergo training, discipline to maneuver about on the battlefield as units of soldiers.
He's going to create uniforms, badges of rank, insignia, things that give the army the ability to command and employ itself, but then also begin to give soldiers a sense of what they belong to in this army that comes to represent the new United States.
And so when declaration is, or when independence is declared in the summer of 1776, we move from a continental army to what becomes the United States Army and a direct lineage from that day.
mimi geerges
Fast forwarding through American history to World War I and World War II, what impact did those two wars have on the way the army operates?
unidentified
It was really a sea change in the way Americans thought about an army.
And I want to go back to that period of 1775, the colonial period.
One of the issues that Washington and the commanders and Congress had to deal with was a distinct distrust in standing armies.
And so people in the 18th century viewed a standing army as a tool of repression.
They were employed.
mimi geerges
Why would they think that?
unidentified
Because they were employed by a monarch generally in an imperial context, in a divine right monarchy, in a centralized government, to maintain order.
And so an army was a part in keeping people in their station in life.
And so you were drafted into the army without your consent.
You were dragooned.
You served in the army, again, at the pleasure of the king.
That was not voluntary service.
And so an army, a standing army, was perceived widely in the world really as a tool of a despot.
And so Washington has to account for this in the spirit of the people who are serving in this army of the new United States as free people.
They have volunteered to serve.
And so this distrust of standing armies is really prevalent in the American conversation throughout the 18th and into the 19th century.
And so by the turn of the 20th century, the U.S. Army is still a very small, mainly constabulary force.
It's been employed in small units mainly in the American West.
But its role is internal to the United States and not external on the world stage.
And World War I primarily and then World War II change all of that, both in scope and scale and what the Army does.
And so in the World Wars, the U.S. Army takes the side of allies fighting overseas, in Europe, and then in Asia, and it fights on a world stage.
And this implies a number of important developments for American society as well, including the acceptance that this standing army is going to remain in existence.
So the question of a citizen army versus a standing regular army is pretty much resolved at that point.
We're always going to have a large standing army going forward, but that mobilization for the World Wars also changes the character of the U.S. Army in deep ways.
And so the U.S. Army up to the turn of the 20th century is a small regular force.
But the militias, the citizen soldiers who become our current Army National Guard really are organizations of the state.
They are organs of individual states and territories, and they don't really have the deep lincoln relationship that those forces have to the U.S. Army of today.
In World War I, we mobilized not only the small regular Army, but we add National Guard divisions which are mobilized in federal service and serve overseas.
We also then add a third component to the Army in this so-called national army.
And so the World War I was our first national experience with a really widespread draft.
There had been conscription in the Civil War, but in World War I, that is conducted on a national scale.
And these soldiers who were drafted form what are called national army divisions.
That national army of federalized draftees becomes today the third component of the modern U.S. Army, the U.S. Army Reserve.
And so out of this experience of World War I and World War II, we have what we call today the total army of a regular army, the Army National Guard, and the Army Reserve, which all perform very specific, carefully orchestrated roles in a total army.
But the World Wars also engendered deep changes in how American society relates to its military forces, both in terms of the mobilization, the growing roles for women in military activities, but then also military service as an incubator of social change.
mimi geerges
I want to talk about that, but how large is the total army if you account for active duty, reserve, and guard?
unidentified
The total army today stands at around a million people, and that is really a mix of full-time regular Army soldiers, National Guardsmen who serve in their states, Army reservists who serve in their communities, but then also a significant corps of civilian employees, Army civilian employees, who support the Army in every way and aspect.
Everywhere the Army is, civilian employees, members of the Army team, support those operations.
And so it remains today a large institution.
mimi geerges
And that is the largest of the services.
unidentified
It is the largest of the services.
And really on this 250th anniversary, it's important to think about the ways in which the U.S. Army of all of the services is really the most deeply embedded in our society.
And that comes from its large size, but then also its very diverse scope of missions.
The Army does everything you can think of that a military service would have to do to conduct operations, but then also those reserve components give it a presence in our communities that the other services have to some degree, but not to the large scale of the U.S. Army.
mimi geerges
And you mentioned cultural changes.
How does the Army impact societal cultural changes, and how does society impact the Army?
unidentified
It's really a very symbiotic relationship.
And I'd encourage our viewers who are here in the region to visit our new National Museum of the U.S. Army, which we opened in 2020.
We're really proud of.
But maybe my favorite space in the museum is the Army and Society Gallery.
And it discusses that symbiotic relationship.
But the Army has always been an organ of social change in America, but it's been affected by the nation's and society's social changes as well.
It's a two-way street of change.
But the Army, throughout its history, has confronted the social changes, complexities, and dilemmas that American society is struggling with within its ranks.
And so particularly in the era of the World Wars, you saw a massive expansion in the scope of military service.
This affected women.
And so women have always been a part of military operations and of war going back into deep history.
And women have served the U.S. Army in numerous capacities.
But in World War I, you have women increasingly serving in administrative and support roles such as nurses and the hello girls who were communicators.
These are women with French language skills who were employed as switchboard operators in France.
And so their experience there and as war workers at home really builds into the women's experience in World War II in the Army.
And in 1942, we formed the Women's Auxiliary Army Corps, which becomes the Women's Army Corps.
mimi geerges
We've got people that want to talk to you.
So let's start with Thomas, a retired military in San Diego, California.
Good morning, Thomas.
unidentified
Hey, how you doing?
You know, I was just wanted to comment.
My dad landed at Normandy, and it was D-Day 1, June 7th.
It was 17 years later.
I was born in 1961 on June 7th.
My brother was in Vietnam.
My brother-in-law was in the Marine Corps.
I was in the Marine Corps, 79 to 82.
Not a whole lot going on.
The world was more scared of us than they hated us.
Right now, they hate us more than they are scared of us.
There's been kind of a transition there.
And then my son, little Tommy, he's 39 down.
He did two tours in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I come from a family of service.
And I want to celebrate, you know, I'm in the Marine Corps, so, you know, we in the Army, first of all, we take, you know, 90-something percent of all casualties in all wars, you know, after nobody else has a Navy superior to ours in the last 30 years.
But World War II, obviously, there was a lot of naval casualties.
But what I wanted to say is some people, he's trying to explain people that it's so hard when you see black and white in the other side.
I go, they just can't see what you're seeing.
And I'm going, you can't change people's minds.
You know, obviously I'm pro-American, and I'm 100% behind this parade.
A good Marine always likes a great parade.
mimi geerges
All right, Thomas.
Charles.
unidentified
Well, sir, thanks for your service, your family service.
And I think what I really want to hone in on what you highlighted is that Army service and military service is so deeply embedded in many families.
I mean, most people, when they look back in their family's past, have a relative who has served, even if they haven't served.
And I too served three tours in Iraq and Afghanistan.
My wife just recently retired as an active duty officer.
So we have that in our family as well.
And I encourage people to really reflect on this 250th anniversary about that nature of service over time.
And I think that pride in service is eternal.
And it goes beyond the debates and the controversies of today.
mimi geerges
Abraham is a New Jersey Republican.
Good morning.
unidentified
Good morning.
I would like to say that I thank all servicemen and women for everything they've done for our country.
Without them, we wouldn't be where we are today.
I'm just worried that the use of military and all the different aspects that are going on with the administration using militaries for this purpose of working on our soil is kind of reminding me of Tenement Square, where the military works for the government and they run people over who are trying to protest freely with a tank.
You see something like that and you say, well, that could never happen in our country because the military is not here.
Now, what's going to happen when the military starts to work for the government that is either Republican or Democrat?
And they say, hey, the Supreme Court said we can do this.
I mean, you're treading on a very, very thin ice when you start having the military work for the government that's in power at the time and do their wins.
So I don't understand.
Well.
mimi geerges
We'll take that up.
Charles Bowery.
unidentified
Thanks for your comment and your call.
One of the key aspects of our Army, and I really think back to those initial thoughts we had about the formation of the Army and the character of the U.S. Army, and it leads me to remind ourselves that one of these core concepts to which we ascribe is civilian control of our military.
And that concept is really important, I think, for reflection today on our 250th anniversary.
And it reminds me of an incident in the Army's early past and back to the year of the year 1781.
So the revolution is in effect over.
The Treaty of Paris is under negotiation, but the Continental Army is still encamped.
It's still in being, and it's up in the Hudson Valley of New York, still under Washington's command.
And a group of officers has decided at that time that they are going to begin to agitate for payment of their pensions.
They're worried that the Continental Congress will not pay them the pensions that they had been guaranteed for their service.
And so there are discussions throughout this camp about a revolt, about officers banding together and moving on Congress to address Congress to petition them to pay these pensions.
And this is a really dangerous moment in this experiment.
And George Washington learns of this.
He gathers the Army officers, all the Army's officer corps together in a meeting hall there in New Windsor, New York.
And he harangues them about this concept of civilian control of the military and the danger in vacating their ideals that they fought and bled and died for for these many years.
And he's worried that this has had no effect.
And he's worried because there's silence in the room and it's really uncomfortable.
And he decides to read a letter that a member of Congress had written him about this situation.
And he takes out his spectacles and he puts them on.
And he says, you'll forgive me, gentlemen, but I've grown poor and unhealthy in the service of my country, but I've also grown blind.
And he puts on his glasses.
And by some accounts, there was an audible gasp in the room when these officers thought about the implications of disregarding this oath.
And so what was called the Newburgh Conspiracy at this moment melted away.
And we've never encountered the like again.
But it reminds all of us on this 250th that civilian control of the military is critical.
And if American citizens wish to engage in this discourse, their way is to exercise their rights as free citizens, to petition their elected representatives, to express their concerns, and then those things turn into our military policies that our Army today supports and defends as they always have.
mimi geerges
And peaceful protests.
unidentified
Absolutely.
mimi geerges
You mentioned pensions.
How was that very first Army funded?
Where did the money come from?
unidentified
It's a great question.
The money came from a mix of sources from the Continental Congress, which had a really, really limited ability to levy taxes early on to appropriate money for the Army.
But it mainly came from the largesse of the colonies and the colonial assemblies.
And so this was essentially a handshake agreement between the colonies and the Continental Congress that they would fund the Army's needs in terms of supplies and pay for soldiers.
But this system rapidly runs out of steam.
And really, by the year 1778, the Continental Congress is bankrupt.
The Army has no resources.
And really, the only thing that is keeping this entire enterprise at float at this point are our allies.
And I'm talking mainly about France and Spain, who begin to float the new rebelling nation enormous loans and significant amounts of military supplies and cargo.
But these enable the Congress to get through this rough patch and to begin to levy taxes, to levy requirements on the colonies, but then to begin to sustain the Army.
And so in this initial period, it's really a compact of the colonial governments, and they mainly supply and fund their own units.
And so the colonies are raising units that serve in the Continental Army.
These are regiments that are named from the state line.
So it's the Connecticut, the 1st Connecticut Regiment or the 3rd Virginia Regiment.
And so the colonies will generally fund their own units.
And they'll also fund their militias when they are mobilized by the Continental Congress for service with the Continental Army.
mimi geerges
Alonzo is retired military in Tampa, Florida.
Alonzo, you're on with Charles Bowery, the Army's historian.
unidentified
Okay, good morning, sir.
Good morning, C-SPAN.
I always appreciate you guys.
I'm calling because I'm a retired Marine, okay, and I'm an African-American Marine on top of that.
And during my service and my history, my question is, during World War II, there were no black officers during the D-Day invasions.
But there were a lot of black soldiers and sailors.
The black sailors in the Army were relegated to the supply.
They were relegated to providing cooks.
That's kind of the idea.
Then, when the guns were taken out, my uncle was moved to gunning placement from the supply area, and he had to take it over.
But when he got back to the United States, he and my father, who participated in the Big Red One transporting supply through the enemy lines, okay, they weren't given any ability to participate in the GI deal.
When they came back home, they weren't allowed to do any of that.
Okay, so during the military, in my service, every time you're in the military, excuse me, you have to take a test.
You have to score high.
You have to compete at a high level.
So the fact that this whole DEI of lowering standards for African Americans or women is untrue.
Okay, there's no way that you can get promoted if you do not pass the standardized testing.
That is true.
And so this historian could tell the mystery of that.
All right.
mimi geerges
Let's get that, Alonzo.
Go ahead, Charles.
unidentified
So, Alonzo, thanks for your call.
A topic that I think is important and we continue to discuss.
And it leads me back to the point that I'm a soldier.
I've served in and around the Army my entire adult life.
And I am a passionate believer that the Army brings out the best in all of its people and that we are an organization that is focused on merit, skill, and pride.
But Alonzo's correct.
And as we talked about the Army as an incubator and a reflector of social changes, the role of African Americans in the military underwent significant change, as he described, in the period of the World Wars.
And many of these obstacles to service for African Americans are deeply rooted in the era of slavery.
They're rooted in racist ideas of black incapacity to serve in combat roles, to lead other people.
And so this process was a process of African Americans themselves fighting for their own advancement, serving their country at the same moment as the country itself does not reward or recognize or acknowledge their service.
And so this double V campaign that African Americans came to speak of in World War II was really a campaign against our enemies overseas, but against racism at home and segregation at home.
And so the Army has its own really interesting path along with all of the services toward greater integration and greater opportunities for the service of African Americans.
And that includes representation in the leadership ranks of the military services.
And today we see African American leaders in ever-increasing numbers in our Army.
And I'm a firm believer that although this is an ever-unfinished process of ensuring that we offer equal opportunities to serve to everyone who wants to serve, we know that this is a challenge with deep historical roots.
And so the Army is always on the lookout to maintain its ability to offer service and to raise people up who wish to serve and demonstrate those skills.
mimi geerges
There are reports of the administration trying to remove references to the contributions of African American soldiers on military websites.
Has that happened with your website?
What do you know about that?
unidentified
Well, what I know is that we at CMH are the stewards of the Army's past.
And that past includes all of these stories.
It includes all of these people and our products, you know, our published products, our websites, our social media accounts, our museums.
They discuss these dynamics, these issues, these challenges, and the service of all Americans in their Army.
And so I'm very confident that although the Army has continued to comply with orders and policy as regards to its activities, those activities do not erase our past.
It's one thing to change words on a site.
It's another thing entirely to erase the service of people.
And I'm completely confident that we have not erased aspects of that.
mimi geerges
But if you erase words, you can erase people's memory of that history.
unidentified
There is a challenge there.
And what I would encourage folks to do is to go to our published products at history.army.mil at our National Museum's website.
They'll see the stories of all Americans, African Americans, women, all groups that make up this very diverse and inclusive Army over time, and to see those stories.
mimi geerges
Ron is retired military in Barrien Springs, Michigan.
Good morning, Ron.
unidentified
Good morning, Mimi.
And Charles, a Vietnam veteran.
And I see this administration as erasing black history out of another history.
For instance, Harriet Tubman, who Abraham Lincoln appointed a captain to carry out military raids during the Civil War and intelligence gathering.
She's being eliminated.
And we have them saying they're going to scrub the Smithsonian of black contributions to our military.
And we see with this administration, Trump with military soldiers illegally putting them on a political display and having them cheer Robert E. Lee, a traitor who should have been hung after the Civil War.
And we would not be having this problem today if that had been done properly.
Nathan Bedford Forrest should have.
But now we see this military, this administration, they're hostile to black people in the military.
They're eliminating them from high command and other posts.
mimi geerges
Okay, Ron, let's get a response.
unidentified
Charles, I want to, again, continue to focus on my portfolio and our purview as the shepherds of the Army's past.
And I'm glad that citizens have concerns and they express those concerns.
But in my experience, in my role, again, as a person who serves soldiers, who serves with soldiers, was a soldier themselves, I'm confident in the Army's ability to continue to foster service, merit, and excellence, whatever the background of the individual concerned.
mimi geerges
Here's Tony, a Democrat in Claypool, Indiana.
Good morning, Tony.
unidentified
Good morning.
Carl, first off, I'd like to thank you not only for your service, but especially for your current service regarding military history of the Army.
I'm 63 years old, growing up, book club, if people remember that.
I saved my money to buy stuff about the Battle of the Belgian D-Day.
So I really love history.
So I really appreciate your mission and what you do.
The host just kind of brought up what my question was, and that was regarding with the Kerner administration and DEI and everything.
I just wanted to ask what's going on as far as that.
Hear everything in the news.
And I know a lot of things have been removed, but then I hear, well, they're still there.
You just have to look harder.
I guess that's my question.
But again, thank you for what you do.
Appreciate it.
mimi geerges
Anything you'd like to add?
I know you've talked about this.
unidentified
I think I'm sensing a trend here in the comments, but I want to reassure everyone who's watching that.
Again, I'm inside the Army.
I see it every day.
I operate at a fairly high level.
But I'm really confident and I'm a believer that the Army continues to foster the best in people who raise their hand and serve and swear an oath to support and defend the Constitution, and that our policies enable excellence in every regard.
And again, I want to point out the ways in which the Army has continued to offer pathways to service in hundreds of different specialties.
One of those was during the era of COVID when we encountered some certainly some recruiting challenges.
The Army has encountered the fact that many young people with a propensity to serve and an interest in serving can't meet educational or fitness requirements.
And so the Army in 2021 developed a future soldier preparatory course.
This was a course taught within the basic training command of the Army, but it allowed people with an interest in serving in the Army to raise their scores on the Army's vocational test and their fitness scores to meet those requirements to go on and serve.
And so today, we're inducting thousands of young Americans into the Army who ordinarily would not be able to serve.
And those come from every part of the country, from every socioeconomic background, every racial and gender background as well.
And so all of those people can serve as a result of those policies, which are really focused on merit and excellence.
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