| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
|
unidentified
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President Trump's proposal to build a new missile defense system called the Golden Dome to counter threats to the U.S. with Paul McCleary, defense reporter at Politico. | |
| And the Atlantic Council's Jennifer Gordon will join us to discuss recent actions by the administration involving U.S. nuclear power production. | ||
| Washington Journal starts now. | ||
| Join the conversation. | ||
| This is Washington Journal for Saturday, May 31st. | ||
| After 130 days, Elon Musk's time as a special government employee has come to an end. | ||
| The tech giant led the Department of Government Efficiency, or Doge, and was tasked with cutting the size and spending of the federal government. | ||
| To start today's program, we want to know your view of Elon Musk and Doge. | ||
| Here are the lines: Democrats, 202-748-8000. | ||
| Republicans, 202-748-8001, and Independents, 202-748-8002. | ||
| You can text your comments to 202-748-8003. | ||
| Be sure to include your name and city. | ||
| You can also post a question or comment on Facebook at facebook.com/slash C-SPAN or on X at C-SPANWJ. | ||
| Good morning, and thank you for being with us. | ||
| We'll get to your calls in just a moment, but want to give you some more information on our lead story or what we're starting with today, and that is Elon Musk leaving Doge. | ||
| This is from the BBC, the headline, an Oval Office Farewell. | ||
| Trump says Elon Musk is not really leaving. | ||
| The article says that Elon Musk's time in the Trump administration has come to an end with a news conference in the Oval Office in which he and the U.S. president defended the work of Doge and vowed it would continue even without Musk. | ||
| According to President Trump, Musk is, quote, not really leaving and will continue to be, quote, back and forth to the White House. | ||
| It's his baby, Trump said, of Musk's work with Doge, short for the cost-cutting Department of Government Efficiency. | ||
| Musk's departure comes 130 days after Trump returned to office, the maximum allowable through his status as a, quote, special government employee. | ||
| It was yesterday in the Oval Office during that event that Elon Musk spoke about his work in the future of Doge. | ||
| Here's a clip. | ||
| Well, let me say perhaps a few words that this is not the end of Doge, but really the beginning. | ||
| My time as a special government employee necessarily had to end. | ||
| It was a limited time thing. | ||
| It's 134 days, I believe, which ends in a few days. | ||
| So that comes with a time limit. | ||
| But the Doge team will only grow stronger over time. | ||
| The Doge influence will only grow stronger. | ||
| I'd liken it to a sort of person of Buddhism. | ||
| It's like a way of life. | ||
| So it is permeating throughout the government, and I'm confident that over time we'll see a trillion dollars of savings and a reduction in a trillion dollars of waste and fraud production. | ||
| The calculations of the Doge team thus far, in terms of an FY25 to FY26 Delta, are over $160 billion, and that's climbing. | ||
| We expect that number will probably go over $200 billion soon. | ||
| So I think the Doge team is doing an incredible job. | ||
| They're going to continue doing an incredible job. | ||
| And I'll continue to be visiting here and be a friend and advisor to the president. | ||
| And I look forward to time being back in this amazing room. | ||
| By the way, isn't this incredible? | ||
| For the first hour of today's Washington Journal, we're asking your view of Elon Musk and Doge. | ||
| Again, the lines are there on your screen. | ||
| Democrats 202-748-8000. | ||
| Republicans 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Independents, 202-748-8002. | ||
| It was also yesterday that Democratic, it was Progressive Caucus Chair Representative Greg Cesar. | ||
| He's of Texas, who spoke about Musk's departure from Doge yesterday during an interview with NBC. | ||
| Here is that clip. | ||
| When Elon Musk says he's stepping back, we can't believe him. | ||
| What he wants to do is step back behind the curtain. | ||
| Because for the longest time, billionaires have run our government hiding behind the curtain. | ||
| Elon Musk's big innovation was that he bought the presidency and then came out in front of the curtain and bragged about running the government on social media. | ||
| The American people are rightly outraged. | ||
| So when he says he's stepping back, I see him trying to go and hide, but he is still meeting with senators. | ||
| He's still meeting with foreign heads of state. | ||
| He's still influencing Trump. | ||
| And I think Democrats need to continue campaigning on getting folks like Elon Musk and all billionaires out of their control of the government because they're clearly enriching themselves and screwing everybody else over. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, and he's one of the biggest employers in your district. | |
| Is there any risk? | ||
| Right in the room from where I'm sitting right now. | ||
| So is there any risk to you politically, Congressman, of really going after him? | ||
| We learned this same lesson in the labor movement. | ||
| Just because somebody runs a big company, just because somebody makes a ton of money, doesn't make them untouchable. | ||
| Look, the Democratic Party just a few months ago was debating whether we should play footsie with Elon Musk or go toe-to-toe with him. | ||
| And when the Democratic Party got the guts to say we're going to go toe-to-toe with Elon Musk, look what happened. | ||
| No matter how much money Musk spent on the Wisconsin Supreme Court election, we beat him because the American people decided that we would vote for those people that voted for the people instead of big money. | ||
| So I'm willing to stand up for the Tesla workers that are working in the factory right up the street from where I'm sitting right now. | ||
| And standing up for those workers means I want those jobs. | ||
| But frankly, Elon Musk should be paying those workers more, just like he should be paying his taxes and not stealing our taxpayer money for himself. | ||
| That was Representative Greg Kassar, Democrat of Texas, responding to Elon Musk's departure from Doge. | ||
| Other members posting on social media on X, this is from Representative David Kustoff, a Republican of Tennessee, saying thank you to Elon Musk for your service to our great nation, along with POTUS. | ||
| You worked tirelessly to root out waste, fraud, and abuse in our federal government. | ||
| In a short period of time, Doge has saved Americans over $170 billion. | ||
| Incredible work. | ||
| Gwen Moore, a Democrat of Wisconsin, said Elon Musk slashed and burned his way through the government, destroying agencies, overseeing his companies, awarding himself billions in contracts, and stealing American sensitive personal info. | ||
| And Speaker Johnson led the Republican Party in failing its oversight. | ||
| Representative Mike Collins, Republican of Georgia, said Elon Musk set out to reform the government and eliminate waste and dedicated months of his life at great peril doing it. | ||
| He succeeded, but the job isn't done yet. | ||
| It's time for Congress to act. | ||
| And one more, it's Representative Susan Delbene, Democrat of Washington State, saying Elon Musk cut vital government services Americans rely on fired thousands of civil servants who keep us safe and put our most sensitive personal info at risk. | ||
| This was never about efficiency or saving money. | ||
| We are asking your view of Elon Musk and Doge. | ||
| We will start with Frank in Memphis, Tennessee, line for Democrats. | ||
| Hi, Frank. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, good morning. | |
| I'm sorry, I'm a little out of breath here. | ||
| I'm in the gym. | ||
| But, yeah, people listen to this. | ||
| Elon Musk is leaving government and whatnot. | ||
| His job was complete within a couple of days of Donald Trump's inauguration. | ||
| He was given the keys to the financial system. | ||
| That's all he was after. | ||
| There has been no cuts. | ||
| There will be no cuts in spending. | ||
| He was given the keys to the financial system. | ||
| And now, thanks to Donald Trump, we know how much it cost to overtake our government and our financial system. | ||
| It's $270 million or whatever Musk contributed to his campaign. | ||
| That is what this is all about. | ||
| And all this cost-cutting stuff, waste fraud and abuse. | ||
| If they were really looking for waste, fraud, and abuse, you wouldn't have a Congress as it stands anymore because that's where your waste, fraud, and abuse is. | ||
| So that's just my thoughts on it. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| That was Frank in Tennessee. | ||
| Let's hear from Alexis in Highland Park, Michigan, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Alexis. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| A couple things. | ||
| So Elon Musk is a drug addict. | ||
| Please quote from the story yesterday talking about people who work with him day in, day out, and his overuse of the hallucinogenic, I believe it's a hallucinogenic ketamine. | ||
| And also there's an interview over a year ago with Don Lemon where he admitted to using ketamine. | ||
| And Don Lemon asked him, do you think you use too much? | ||
| Well, no, I don't think so. | ||
| Well, what drug addict is going to say, yeah, I use too much of my drug. | ||
| Number two, how does Elon Musk represent conservative Republican Christian values? | ||
| He has 13 children at least by, I believe, 13 different women. | ||
| And, like I said, he's just a joke. | ||
| And the other thing I want to say is there's a book that came out this week called Not the Haves and the Have-Nots. | ||
| It's called The Haves and the Have-Yots. | ||
| Y-A-C-H-T-S. | ||
| People should check it out. | ||
| It's about our billionaire class and how they've taken over this world. | ||
| That was Alexis in Michigan. | ||
| Tony in Iowa, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Tony. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you for having me. | |
| I think you did a pretty good job. | ||
| The only thing I want to say is we got a lot of problems. | ||
| We're sending money all over the place, all over the world. | ||
| For no reason. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
| That's taxpayers' money. | ||
| When they get the money back, why don't they give it to the taxpayer? | ||
| That's all I have to say. | ||
| That was Tony in Iowa. | ||
| Greg in Lake City, Florida, line for independence. | ||
| Hi, Greg. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, what's going on? | |
| Great show today. | ||
| Just wanted to say that I definitely agree with the first two callers. | ||
| And the third caller, the guy who just got off the phone, I mean, he's saying there's so much more that we got to do and whatnot. | ||
| Listen, the Republicans have for a long time stretched issues, made things about, you know, situations that it's not about. | ||
| And now you see the result of it. | ||
| So in my estimation, definitely agree with the first two callers. | ||
| They were spot on. | ||
| The entire administration should be in jail. | ||
| You have a good day. | ||
| That was Greg in Florida. | ||
| Judy, South Beach, Oregon, line for Democrats. | ||
| Hi, Judy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| I believe Elon Musk did exactly what he wanted to do. | ||
| There were tons of lawsuits against him and his companies. | ||
| He got rid of those. | ||
| He made sure that people that were the regulators were dismissed. | ||
| Let's see. | ||
| I just saw a show last night, the more perfect union, and they spoke about Elon's building AI, a big, huge computer in Memphis, Tennessee, and how he didn't have, he didn't, he didn't have any regular permits to do what he's doing. | ||
| These people are breathing horrible air because of his huge, huge computer, all the energy it uses. | ||
| Elon just, he got this job to save his butt. | ||
| You know, he was in a lot of trouble. | ||
| If he wouldn't, if Trump wouldn't have won the election, he's kind of spoke a few times saying he probably would have gone to prison. | ||
| And I believe it's true. | ||
| I just think he's a crook, and he should be deported. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Bye-bye. | ||
| Ms. Judy in Oregon. | ||
| Donald St. Joseph, Missouri, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
| Let's see. | ||
| Good morning, Donald. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I can hear you well. | |
| I can hear you, Donald. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| As far as I'm concerned, Elon Musk and Donald Trump are a godsend for our country. | ||
| We're being ripped off left and right by these Democrats. | ||
| Joe Biden wasn't even signing the bills that he thought money come out of a faucet. | ||
| You'd turn it on and turn it off or grow it on a tree. | ||
| Elon Musk came in there and saved our country lots of money from these thieves. | ||
| And if you're not for that, then you must be a thief yourself. | ||
| Goodbye. | ||
| That was Donald in Missouri. | ||
| John in Easton, Pennsylvania, line for Democrats. | ||
| Hi, John. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Good morning. | ||
| Elon Musk looks like a Chinese communist. | ||
| And if he made his money and lived in China, he should go back. | ||
| He must be running from them because he doesn't belong here. | ||
| And AI and funding and the running of government are two different things. | ||
| AI needs information. | ||
| Our government tells us information. | ||
| Elon Musk got it all wrong. | ||
| And Donald Trump ought to get his head together and fire him just like he fires everybody else. | ||
| Have a nice day. | ||
| That was John in Pennsylvania. | ||
| Let's hear from Bobby in Florida, line for independence. | ||
| Hi, Bobby. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I can't believe the hate that is spewing out on this program this morning. | ||
| I was shocked and in disbelief at all the money that was leaking out at this USAID agency, the absurd and obscene reasons and programs they were paying for and supporting in the name of the U.S. taxpayer. | ||
| I can't believe the resistance to common sense budget analysis and review. | ||
| I'm just speechless. | ||
| Continue the hate. | ||
| Goodbye. | ||
| That was Bobby in Florida. | ||
| And Alexis, one of our earlier callers, referenced this headline, the story in the New York Times from yesterday, the headline on the campaign trail, Elon Musk juggled drugs and family drama. | ||
| The article says that as Elon Musk became one of Donald J. Trump's closest allies last year, leading raucous rallies and donating about $275 million to help him win the presidency, he was also using drugs far more intensely than previously known, according to people familiar with his activities. | ||
| It says Mr. Musk's drug consumption went well beyond occasional use. | ||
| He told people he was taking so much ketamine, a powerful anesthetic, that it was affecting his bladder, a known effect of chronic use. | ||
| He took ecstasy and psychedelic mushrooms, and he traveled with a daily medication box that held about 20 pills, including ones with the marking of the stimulant Adderall, according to a photo of the box and people who have seen it. | ||
| It's unclear whether Mr. Musk, 53, was taking drugs when he became a fixture at the White House this year and was handed the power to slash the federal bureaucracy, but he exhibited erratic behavior, insulting cabinet members, gesturing like a Nazi, and garbling his answers in a staged interview. | ||
| Yesterday, during Elon Musk's and President Trump's speaking to the press in the Oval Office, Elon Musk was asked about the New York Times article. | ||
| Here is his response. | ||
| There is a New York Times report today that accuses you of blurring the line between... | ||
| Is the New York Times, is that the same publication that got a Pulitzer Prize for false reporting on the Russiagate? | ||
| Is it the same organization? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I got to check my polluter. | |
| It is. | ||
| But so I think the judge just ruled against the New York Times for their lies about the Russiate hoax and that they might have to give back that fully surprise. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That New York Times, let's move on. | |
| Reporting from USA Today says that President Donald Trump said he was not aware of Elon Musk's regularly using drugs, responding to a media report on the billionaire's alleged drug use during the 2024 presidential campaign. | ||
| It says that Trump spoke to reporters May 30th after returning from a rally in Pennsylvania. | ||
| He denied any knowledge of drug use by Musk and called him fantastic. | ||
| Asked if he was troubled by the report, Trebb said, I'm not troubled by anything with Elon. | ||
| Back to your calls, asking your view of Elon Musk and Doge. | ||
| Let's hear from Nancy in Bullhead City, Arizona, line for Republicans. | ||
| Hi, Nancy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, I just can't believe, like the guy said earlier, all the hate that's being spewed on Elon Musk when all he was trying to do is help America. | |
| You know, I just don't understand why the Democrats got to spew so much hate on somebody that's trying to do good and is truly a magnanimous person. | ||
| Nancy, what do you think of the actions that Elon Musk took during the last 130 days? | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's a guy's been doing a lot of work. | |
| I mean, whatever he needs to do to help himself get along. | ||
| I mean, there's, well, look at Joe. | ||
| I mean, all the stuff that he was doing wasn't right either. | ||
| So, you know, who's calling the kettle block with the Democrats? | ||
| I don't understand why they just got to spew hate. | ||
| That's all. | ||
| That was Nancy in Arizona. | ||
| Joe, Washington, D.C., line for independence. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, Joe. | |
| Hello. | ||
| Good morning, C-SPAN and America. | ||
| I just, I don't understand how this government will let a non-elected official come in and dismantle the entire federal government. | ||
| And now, this individual, listen, America, this individual has everyone's social security number. | ||
| And this individual has gone into the IRS and he has all your personal data and information. | ||
| America, you need to wake up. | ||
| This country is under attack by the oligarchs. | ||
| Have a great day. | ||
| Goodbye. | ||
| Joe, Washington, D.C. Robert in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, line for Democrats. | ||
| Hi, Robert. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, how are you? | |
| Been calling since 1979. | ||
| But I do want to make some observations. | ||
| And Europeans need to know that they are immigrants. | ||
| Everybody in this country, except the indigenous people, I don't know how they got here before the Europeans, but African Americans were brought here to build a country for Europeans. | ||
| They could not have existed if it weren't for African American people. | ||
| And they are immigrants, and some bad people came from Europe. | ||
| And just like other countries, some good people came, but some bad people. | ||
| And in this government today, most of the bad people who are running the government in the United States are some bad Europeans. | ||
| They call themselves white people. | ||
| There are no white people on earth. | ||
| There are some black people, but no white people. | ||
| They are just people without color, but some good people now. | ||
| Don't get me wrong, but the good people usually don't get elected to politics. | ||
| That's Robert in Alabama. | ||
| Petronella in Bradenton, Florida, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Petronella. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| You there? | ||
| Yes, I am. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| I want to say that Elon Musk is like an angel God sent to this country. | ||
| And I don't know why people cannot see the good when there's so much bad. | ||
| Yeah, in my opinion, I'm 86 years old, going on 87, and it's just hard to believe that people would have anything bad to say about a guy that has doing so much good to help this country and the president. | ||
| So I guess some people are just blind to the truth. | ||
| They just can't see it. | ||
| So that's my opinion. | ||
| And I am so happy that he's helped, you know, the president. | ||
| And he's so smart, super smart. | ||
| He didn't have to spend his time doing this. | ||
| You know, God, I guess some people just can't see good and bad. | ||
| They just can't see an angel and can't thank God for sending him to help this country. | ||
| You know, and that's the way I feel. | ||
| I've lived a long life, been through bad times. | ||
| And geez, it's just, I guess, God is shining on us by giving them, you know, the president all the help he can do. | ||
| So that's my opinion. | ||
| That's Petronella in Florida. | ||
| Barney, also in Florida, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Barney. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I just love the way this white South African came over here and conquered the United States. | ||
| I think he did an excellent job. | ||
| And all those Republicans out there waiting on their $5,000 check, he done spent that already. | ||
| So y'all need to go get your job out there in them tomato fields and orange groves. | ||
| And have a good day. | ||
| And for his God sent, you're right, God did send these two clowns, President Trump and Elon Musk. | ||
| If God sent them, I don't want to go to hell. | ||
| That was Barney in Florida. | ||
| Jason, and at St. Cloud, Minnesota, line for Independence. | ||
| Hi, Jason. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, good morning, America. | |
| How's everybody doing? | ||
| I've been watching C-SPAN since the Brian Lamb days. | ||
| I was always a caller on the Democratic line, but I don't feel that they really have me at heart anymore. | ||
| So that's why my first time calling on the independent line. | ||
| What did Elon get from this? | ||
| Well, you know, he donated about $250 million to the campaign. | ||
| He got a $2 trillion military contract. | ||
| So that worked out pretty good for him. | ||
| He said that he had saved $2 trillion. | ||
| He ended up doing $150 billion, that one senator said, and said, an incredible job. | ||
| Well, if a family has a $10,000 income, he basically saved them $100. | ||
| And in my mass, he came up to 0.075 of $2 trillion. | ||
| So not too good there. | ||
| This man has no connection to the United States. | ||
| He just looks at us as a piggy bank. | ||
| You realize X is everywhere and he's in all the governments of the United States. | ||
| He wants power. | ||
| That's all that this is about. | ||
| You know, people say that we can't see the good in what he's doing. | ||
| It's because they lie to us all the time and we can't trust anything that's going on. | ||
| So people who say that, it's time to wake up and turn off Fox. | ||
| You know, I mean, you're saying that he's a smart man. | ||
| Have you listened to him talk? | ||
| Have you read the transcripts? | ||
| Have you heard the things that he says? | ||
| Stage nine cancer for Biden. | ||
| There is no such thing. | ||
| Fake news. | ||
| You know, he said from the beginning on that Leslie Stahl interview that he was going to get in front of the news. | ||
| Any story that didn't work for him, he was going to get in front of it. | ||
| You know, the other day they brought up the taco thing. | ||
| He got so offended by that. | ||
| And you guys are saying that he's such a thick-skinned man. | ||
| He is the biggest snowflake that has ever been. | ||
| It's amazing how tough you guys talked. | ||
| And I'm talking Republicans saying that Democrats were such snowflakes. | ||
| You guys are the king of snowflakes. | ||
| Love you, America. | ||
| Stay strong. | ||
| Good luck. | ||
| That was Jason in Minnesota for this first hour. | ||
| We are asking your view of Elon Musk in Doge. | ||
| We have some comments from social media and on text. | ||
| This is from Claire in Minto, North Dakota. | ||
| She's an independent says, I am pleased with Doge. | ||
| Finally, the taxpayers are finding out what our money is wasted on. | ||
| Why are we paying inspector generals in Congress who were supposed to be doing this job? | ||
| They just keep throwing money away. | ||
| And this coming in on X from Ellerby says Elon Musk was like an addiction intervention for our power and money-hungry politicians. | ||
| The COVID pandemic allowed them to wildly binge, heady binge, and they didn't want to give it up. | ||
| Look who is resisting cuts. | ||
| Look who wants to raise our taxes. | ||
| This from Kevin in Windsor, Connecticut says, the unconstitutional firing of American citizens that did more for their country than Musk still, the Americans are still waiting to the waste and fraud. | ||
| The waste and fraud abuse is in the loopholes. | ||
| The billionaires don't have to pay taxes. | ||
| And one more, this is from America Corporated on X says, at first, I was supportive. | ||
| I supported the initiative. | ||
| As time went on, it became clear that the cuts were more discretionary than based in fraud, were not administered by recovery accounting auditors, bypassed congressional appropriations and oversight, and seemed more partisan than objective. | ||
| Back to your calls. | ||
| Let's talk with Sue in Idaho line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Sue. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| How are you? | ||
| Doing well. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I said, good morning. | |
| How are you? | ||
| I said, doing well, Sue. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, I'm sorry, honey. | |
| I have a hard time hearing, but I'm going obviously on the Republican line. | ||
| I think Elon has done a great job. | ||
| Just my opinion. | ||
| There's a lot of wasteful spending that our government does. | ||
| And did he complete everything he said he would? | ||
| No. | ||
| But he was, he got there. | ||
| Just my opinion. | ||
| And the Democrats, I want to know, wow, they had cocaine that was found at the White House when Biden was in office, but they never found out who left it there, huh? | ||
| I find that hard to believe. | ||
| That was Sue in Idaho. | ||
| Maurice, in Flint, Michigan, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Maurice. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, good morning. | |
| Yes. | ||
| Elon Musk, I mean, he needs to go. | ||
| He needs no good for America. | ||
| And Donald Trump ought to be ashamed of himself for hiring all these crazy people to do, I mean, for all the positions that he had given. | ||
| All these crooks and different things and letting these people out of prison. | ||
| There's been crooks, you know, but right is right. | ||
| Wrong is wrong. | ||
| No matter how you put it, it's just a right. | ||
| You know, Elon Musk must go. | ||
| And America, we got to wake up. | ||
| We got to wake up because it's not, this country's going to hell. | ||
| Okay, have a good day. | ||
| Blessed day. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| That was Maurice in Michigan. | ||
| Ted in Santa Maria, California, line for Republicans. | ||
| Hi, Ted. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, how you doing? | |
| Doing well, Ted. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Excellent. | |
| Yeah, I just want to say Elon Musk is. | ||
| I mean, come on. | ||
| You can't say enough about the man. | ||
| Ted, I'm having a hard time hearing you. | ||
| Can you, are you near the phone? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, yeah. | |
| Can you hear me okay? | ||
| Now I can hear you. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, yeah. | |
| Elon Musk has got, I mean, you can't say enough about the guy. | ||
| He's an entrepreneur. | ||
| He's successful. | ||
| Everything he's doing, he's doing for America. | ||
| And Donald Trump, too, he took a bullet for us and he still survived. | ||
| And Democrats, you know, Democrats are just like, they're like diapers. | ||
| You know, they're. | ||
| That was Ted in California. | ||
| And we remind you to watch your language when you're on the air. | ||
| We don't have many rules, but that's definitely one of them. | ||
| Let's talk with Tim in Seaford, New York, line for independents. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning, America. | |
| Just a quick little thing that happened to me. | ||
| So I'm elderly. | ||
| I filed my tax returns this year. | ||
| I never have a problem. | ||
| I always pay extra and get a fast refund. | ||
| So this year, all of a sudden, my Turbo, all of a sudden, well, TurboTax first told me 99% problem, no audit issues. | ||
| Of course, like I said, I've been doing this a long time and I've been always giving extra. | ||
| So now all of a sudden they block my refund. | ||
| Now they're saying there's some kind of possible cyber theft or something like that with it. | ||
| And they're just checking on my figures. | ||
| And now they, you know, I'm not, I didn't know this until like a month later, a month and a half after I filed my form. | ||
| And then they asked me all these questions to verify that I did send my form in. | ||
| Sure, I did that. | ||
| And now I'm still waiting on his status. | ||
| They're not telling me if they're going to accept my taxes. | ||
| And I'm just so upset. | ||
| Do we really, do you have to let me, the little people, you know, go through this ring? | ||
| You know, it's just like, I just, you know, I'm an independent sure, you know, and that's why I like to think clearly, you know, be able to look at both sides. | ||
| And, you know, I'm just like swinging, like, I don't know. | ||
| You know, did Musk have something to do with this? | ||
| You know, that's it. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| That was Tim in Seaford, New York. | ||
| This is an article, Tim, talking about his experience with the IRS. | ||
| This is a report from CBS, the headline back from March. | ||
| The headline, the IRS has lost almost one-third of its tax auditors after two months of Doge cuts. | ||
| Reports say. | ||
| And it was on yesterday during the Oval Office send-off that Elon Musk was asked a question about the hardest part of the job he had leading Doge. | ||
| Here is that clip. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But what have you found in your time here was the biggest roadblock to getting those cuts? | |
| Was it the cabinet or was it Congress or something else? | ||
| What was the biggest roadblock from your work? | ||
| It's mostly just a lot of hard work. | ||
| It's really not any one personal Congress. | ||
| It's going through really millions of line items and saying, does each one of them make sense or does it not make sense? | ||
| Obviously at times when you cut expenses, those who are receiving the money, whether they're receiving that money legitimately or not, they do complain. | ||
| And you're not going to hear someone confessing that they received money inappropriately. | ||
| Never. | ||
| They're going to always say that they received money appropriately for an important cause, naturally. | ||
| That's what you'd expect. | ||
| So we just have to, it's just a lot of work going through the vast expenses of the federal government and just really asking questions. | ||
| What's this money for? | ||
| Are you sure it's actually being used well? | ||
| Many times we can't even find anyone who defends it. | ||
| So for a lot of the expenses, there is actually no defender at all. | ||
| And then we have to just go work through the process of stopping the spending where there's often literally no defender. | ||
| Nobody even knows why the money's being spent. | ||
| It's truly absurd. | ||
| I mean, we find situations where there are millions of software licenses with zero people using them. | ||
| Zero. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| This is the quizzical expression. | ||
| You're like, surely if there's millions of software licenses, someone should be using them. | ||
| No. | ||
| And then we just, we've got to go through the process of saying, okay, look, if no one's using the software, we can terminate this software license agreement. | ||
| That's everywhere in the government. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mr. Musk, what do you think would be easier, colonizing Mars or making the government efficient? | |
| It's a tough call, but I think colonizing Mars and making life multi-planetary is harder. | ||
| And as I said, we do expect to achieve over time the trillion dollars of savings. | ||
| We can't do it in like a few months. | ||
| But if you say by the, I think the official end of Doge, which the president may choose to extend, is the middle of next year. | ||
| Say by the middle of next year, with the support of the president and Congress, could we achieve a trillion dollars of savings? | ||
| I think so. | ||
| We're on track to do so. | ||
| 25 minutes left in this first hour of today's Washington Journal asking your view of Elon Musk and Doge. | ||
| This from Barbara in Massachusetts, an independent says, audits are great if done properly by trained auditors, not computer geeks. | ||
| I bet if the real auditors were used more, we would have, more would have been found. | ||
| Legitimate firings, not willy-nilly firings. | ||
| To those who say Musk was sent by God, no God has nothing to do with it. | ||
| And this from Sue in Whitting, New Jersey says, I was never quite sure what to make of Elon Musk and Doge. | ||
| Musk is a very intelligent and interesting person who President Trump is obviously impressed with. | ||
| However, I feel like we have checks and balances in place which are supposed to identify and prevent fraud, waste, and abuse. | ||
| But if Doge found so much, the question remains: who's not doing their job or jobs? | ||
| Back to your calls. | ||
| Let's talk with Mike in Reston, Virginia, line for Democrats. | ||
| Hi, Mike. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning. | |
| I don't know where to start. | ||
| Musk, he has money. | ||
| I don't think he was in it for the money. | ||
| I think he was in it to get information. | ||
| And this is very dangerous. | ||
| If you remember, in Denmark, I think there was a story. | ||
| They were taking statistics of people there, what their religion or their race. | ||
| Then the Nazi came and they found out who was Jewish exactly what the address is, and they all sent him to the Holocaust. | ||
| This was very dangerous for this country. | ||
| For one man, the Congress is not working. | ||
| The Senate are afraid. | ||
| They're all afraid to lose their jobs. | ||
| And they let one man go in because we got a con man in the White House. | ||
| I mean, people talk about U.S. aid. | ||
| Let's say, U.S.AID, what percentage of the U.S. budget is U.S. aid? | ||
| One and a half, one percent. | ||
| We have the influence of the world, and we are the richest country because our economy was working, the way our system was working. | ||
| And now we got tariffs, everybody is paying higher prices. | ||
| I am a contract with the federal government. | ||
| We used to work remotely from home. | ||
| Now I have to go to work. | ||
| I have to go to work while I can do the same job at home. | ||
| We have to pay parking, we have to pay gas, we have to pay tolls. | ||
| It cost me almost $5,000 a year extra, plus all the product that's increasing in price. | ||
| Nothing went down. | ||
| Let's talk about Biden, what he did. | ||
| Unemployment went from 10% to 5%. | ||
| The logistics to spread, to send for COVID relief, all these injections to save people. | ||
| That's what he did. | ||
| Infrastructure, if it went through, it'll hire millions of people and will improve the country. | ||
| We'll help everybody else. | ||
| What else can I say? | ||
| I mean, it just, I don't think the Republican Party is working. | ||
| Facts turn people against each other based on race and ethnicity. | ||
| Got your point, Mike. | ||
| We'll go to Brandy in Annapolis, Indiana, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Brandy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I'm calling. | ||
| I had to use my one call a month for this, but I'm thankful for Elon Musk. | ||
| I am a former accountant, and I am glad because one line by one line, that is how you find everything. | ||
| And look at what he did find, what he uncovered. | ||
| And for people to say that that's just 1%, 2%, that all adds up. | ||
| And I'm glad that somebody got in there and started looking at all of this. | ||
| And let's go forward. | ||
| I'm very thankful. | ||
| And I don't believe that Elon Musk was the one in the IRS. | ||
| I had watched a few things on C-SPAN, which I watch C-SPAN all the time. | ||
| And it was trained professionals in the IRS that was going line by line. | ||
| And I don't think Elon Musk is responsible for actually firing somebody. | ||
| I think he just brought things to light. | ||
| And when you see you don't need something or somebody working from home is not doing something, then yes, it's time to get rid of them. | ||
| So I like him or don't like him, but I think he did a wonderful job. | ||
| He didn't have to do that. | ||
| He stepped up to do it. | ||
| And I, for one, am very thankful. | ||
| Line by line, that's how everything should be done. | ||
| It's tedious, but that's how it should be done. | ||
| That's how you find everything. | ||
| So thank you for taking my call, and I'll wait another 30 days. | ||
| Thanks for playing by the rules, Brandy. | ||
| Let's talk with Ray in Rockwood, Michigan, Line for Independence. | ||
| Hi, Ray. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, America. | |
| I'm calling to say that, you know, they say that Stoge is going to save us money. | ||
| And meanwhile, they go on and give these great big tax cuts and they're trying to sweep away $5 trillion in their first fiscal years. | ||
| And it's just disgusting. | ||
| You're supposed to give a hand up, not a hand down. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| That was Ray in Michigan. | ||
| This headline in this morning's New York Times, Musk's chainsaw still reverberates in Washington's empty halls and beyond. | ||
| The article says that Elon Musk's time with the federal government is up, but his chainsaw approach to firing workers, freezing spending, and canceling contracts continues to reverberate in the empty halls of agencies in Washington and around the country. | ||
| Current and former federal workers describe a government that in some cases remains paralyzed with uncertainty waiting for direction from senior officials. | ||
| Everyday tasks now take much longer with added layers of supervisory approvals that they say make their work harder. | ||
| Thousands of government employees are now being paid not to work at all in service of Mr. Musk's efficiency mandate, which President Trump billed as a way to purge the government of diversity initiatives and as cost-cutting initiatives to better serve the American public. | ||
| And while Mr. Musk is going back to running his companies, the federal workforce, reductions he set in motion have yet to fully take effect. | ||
| Thousands of government, tens of thousands of government workers have been braced for layoffs for more than a month. | ||
| Moreover, some of the aides that Mr. Musk installed in agencies remain in place, seeking to continue their version of the efficiency and modernization drive. | ||
| And this is a quote. | ||
| It says, Musk leaving is a little bit like the departure of Godzilla after there's an attack on the city, said Max Dyer, the president of the Partnership for Public Service, a nonprofit that works to promote best practices in the federal government. | ||
| He said that there's a lot of stuff that's been flattened and damaged, is profound, and it's not actually over. | ||
| A White House spokesperson, spokeswoman, spokesman disputed that assessment, saying that Mr. Musk's team, known as the Department of Government Efficiency, or Doge, has, quote, delivered remarkable results at an unprecedented pace. | ||
| Just a little over 15 minutes left in this first hour, asking your view of Elon Musk and Doge. | ||
| Let's talk with Crystal in Wilkesbury, Pennsylvania, Line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Crystal. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, good morning. | |
| I personally don't like Elon Musk. | ||
| However, if he saved the government money, why can't we see that money being saved? | ||
| If he did, he moved all of that money out so wealthy people can get tax cuts. | ||
| Another thing that he did, he destroyed his own business just to walk away with a gold-plated key from the White House and Stephen Miller's wife. | ||
| That's just the way I see it. | ||
| He did nothing for anyone else. | ||
| I just see him as a racist along with Trump. | ||
| So guys, have a good day. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| That was Crystal in Pennsylvania. | ||
| Bill in Spring Hill, Florida, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Bill. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| I think that Elon Musk is doing a great job. | ||
| He's done now, as far as I know. | ||
| When I think about all this going on, I think about that federal employee who worked for the government for 30 years, retired, out on the golf course, seeing guys out there that are supposed to be working and they're on the golf course. | ||
| That's the kind of waste that we're getting rid of. | ||
| People that are supposedly working from home, not even doing anything. | ||
| I think a lot of this waste, we saved millions and millions of dollars by Elon Musk doing this. | ||
| Also, I'd like to say we need to get rid of these judges that are blocking Trump from doing anything. | ||
| Judges are not supposed to be political. | ||
| And every time Trump tries to do something with the border or anything else, the judges are blocking him, trying to get rid of the criminals, the judges block them. | ||
| We need to do something about these judges. | ||
| Got your point, Bill. | ||
| We'll go to Dennis in Oklahoma, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Dennis. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Anything else? | |
| The judge is good morning, Dennis. | ||
| Are you there? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, ma'am. | |
| Hi, Dennis. | ||
| Can you go ahead and turn your television down in the background? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, I will. | |
| Thank you. | ||
| I'm just looking at my bank statement that I just received yesterday, and my Social Security check has not been deposited in the banking account. | ||
| I'll just, well, here we go. | ||
| Maybe y'all can figure out something on that. | ||
| I guess we'll have to call the Social Security office and see what the hell's going on. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| That was Dennis in Oklahoma. | ||
| Andres in Gates Mills, Oklahoma. | ||
| Or I'm sorry, Ohio, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Andres. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, America. | |
| Good morning to you, ma'am. | ||
| Well, here's the thing about the famous savings. | ||
| Andres, go ahead and turn your television down in the background. | ||
| I think that'll help. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, hopefully this works. | |
| Yep. | ||
| So, wonderful job, huh? | ||
| Oh, Elon and Doge. | ||
| So, how come we're projecting a $3.8 trillion increase in our damn debt? | ||
| Get your head out of your nether regions, people of the Republican, I am a Republican belief system. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| Get your head out of your nether regions. | ||
| If we just saved, say, $3 billion or $300, how come Mr. Magical, Mr. Superduper Trump and his super duper mogul, how come the same people are saying we're going to be increasing our debt by $3.8 trillion? | ||
| That's $3,800 million. | ||
| Think about that. | ||
| Just think about that. | ||
| And that's all I have to say. | ||
| That was Andres in Ohio. | ||
| Jim in Lebanon, Illinois, line for independence. | ||
| Hi, Jim. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| How are you today? | ||
| Doing well, Jim. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, good. | |
| Yeah, just a couple of points on that. | ||
| Elon Musk, you know, the job that they were doing, I don't believe anyone's got anything against finding fraud, waste, and abuse. | ||
| But it's how they did it. | ||
| There was no humanitarian point to it at all. | ||
| They would fire people before they ever went in and checked for abuse. | ||
| So now we've got 200 and some odd thousand people out of work, and these guys are just walking off. | ||
| And for something that one of the other guys there said before, you know, as far as somebody doing their job, why didn't Doge go in and look at Congress and the Senate and look at those guys and find out who's not doing their job there? | ||
| Maybe we could have cut a whole lot of waste, fraud, and abuse just out of the houses. | ||
| So thank you for your time this morning. | ||
| That was Jim in Illinois. | ||
| This was a poll put out by AP in Nork the end of last month. | ||
| Found that most say Musk has too much influence amid concerns over reductions in the federal government. | ||
| It shows this chart. | ||
| The headline you can see there, most perceive Elon Musk as having too much influence. | ||
| This blue bar at 65% says too much. | ||
| The gray is about right. | ||
| That's at 27%. | ||
| And 6% say too little. | ||
| You can see the difference is also broken down by party, with Republicans saying 37% of Republicans saying he has too much influence, 69% of independents, and 88% of independents saying that Elon Musk has too much influence. | ||
| It was yesterday that Representative Melanie Stansberry, Democrat of New Mexico, also the ranking member of the Doge subcommittee, spoke about Elon Musk and the future of Doge. | ||
| Here's a clip from her interview on MSNBC. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He has literally shattered thousands of American lives. | |
| He's disrupted our entire federal government. | ||
| And just like, you know, other rich dudes who want to tinker with what they think are toys, this is not a joke. | ||
| This is the democracy that is our country and the American people's lives. | ||
| So, you know, there's going to be very serious consequences. | ||
| And we will hold Elon Musk accountable for the damages that he's done. | ||
| How do you plan to hold him accountable? | ||
| So at the current moment, obviously, Democrats are not in control of Congress, but the courts are our key tool right now. | ||
| And I think it's important to observe that over the last 130 days that Elon Musk has been a special government employee, there are now over 100, over 200 federal court cases have been filed against the Trump administration for lawless behavior. | ||
| That includes everything from illegal dismantling of USAID and letting children starve around the world. | ||
| It includes the mass firings that were illegal. | ||
| It includes the illegal data hacking that happened of American data. | ||
| And those court cases are pending. | ||
| There are dozens of court injunctions. | ||
| And myself and Jamie Raskin have also filed legislation for civil liability against Elon Musk and any special government employee. | ||
| But it also necessitates that we win back the House and use the tools of Congress to hold him accountable. | ||
| Right now, the courts are our primary tool. | ||
| Other members of Congress also responding to Elon Musk's departure from Doge this from yesterday. | ||
| It's Representative Eric Burleson, a Republican of Missouri, saying, Ultimately, the success of Doge hinges on whether elected officials can resist the swamp's grip and eliminate waste instead of chasing votes. | ||
| Both sides play for applause, not results. | ||
| And this from the Oversight Committee from Oversight Committee Democrats, it says: a month ago, Oversight Dems requested a copy of Elon Musk's security clearance form, which includes information about past drug use usage lying on the form equals up to five years' imprisonment. | ||
| Given this new reporting, it's time the admin hands over that form. | ||
| Just under 10 minutes left, let's go back to your calls and talk with Frank and Prairie Hill, Texas Line for Independence. | ||
| Good morning, Frank. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, ma'am. | |
| I think Elon and Donald Trump both are doing an excellent job. | ||
| I mean, Elon gave up a lot. | ||
| He lost a lot of money. | ||
| He's a patriot. | ||
| He ought to be Trump giving the key to the White House. | ||
| The board did a good job. | ||
| He's a brilliant thing. | ||
| He's an entrepreneur. | ||
| He helps us with the space program. | ||
| He's just a patriot. | ||
| He gave up a lot. | ||
| You know, and he found the Medicaid abuse that Biden was putting illegals on Medicaid. | ||
| He found a lot of the cover-up money allowing illegals to come over and get on medical insurance. | ||
| That we were paying billions and billions of dollars to illegals for hotels and everything. | ||
| He found all this stuff and more, a lot more. | ||
| You know, the board did a real good job, and he trained them other guys how to go about, you know, after he left. | ||
| And he's doing an excellent job, him and Trump both. | ||
| And the Democrats are just mad. | ||
| They just mad because they lost the election. | ||
| They whine all the time. | ||
| They don't have good Democrats anymore like Truman and JFK. | ||
| They got these racists, Jasmine Crockett. | ||
| They got a communist like Bernie Sanders and Omar and a radical. | ||
| AOC, she's a radical. | ||
| They don't have nobody. | ||
| You know, their whole party's falling apart and they're just mad because they lost election. | ||
| I got your point, Frank. | ||
| We'll go to Tim in Germantown, Maryland, line for Democrats. | ||
| Hi, Tim. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, hey, good morning. | |
| So, my point about the impact of Elon Musk is about, let me put it this way: he has mentioned the possibility of the U.S. government to collect intelligence outside the country. | ||
| Let's take, for example, USCID. | ||
| This is an organization who is almost in every corner of the world. | ||
| Yes, U.S. is spending money in those countries, but what the U.S. is getting by those Americans working outside the country are gathering information for this nation. | ||
| So the impact of weakening things such as USCID and other institutions working outside the country Will have a longer impact in the country. | ||
| And the intelligence environment needs to wake up. | ||
| The intelligence community, I mean to say, need to wake up and wake up big time. | ||
| Because all over the world, when things happen all over the world, who does other government call to get a precise information? | ||
| They call U.S. | ||
| And U.S. will be able to tell with a big precision where to find those information. | ||
| But now, are we going to get it? | ||
| Probably not. | ||
| We lose and we lose big. | ||
| Thank you for your time. | ||
| That was Tim in Maryland and Elon Musk leaving his post after 130 days. | ||
| According to the Doge website, the estimated savings during his time there is $175 billion. | ||
| That means it breaks down to a little over $1,000 per taxpayer. | ||
| It was during an interview with CBS that will air in full tomorrow morning on CBS Sunday morning. | ||
| Elon Musk said that he was disappointed by Trump's quote big, beautiful bill and what it means for Doge. | ||
| Here is a clip from that interview. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So, you know, I was like disappointed to see the massive spending bow, frankly, which increases the budget deficit, not just decreased it. | |
| And that reminds the work that the Doge team is doing. | ||
| I actually thought that when this big, beautiful bill came along. | ||
| I mean, like, everything he's done on Doge gets wiped out in the first year. | ||
| I think a bill can be big or it can be beautiful. | ||
| I don't know if it could be both. | ||
| My personal opinion. | ||
| Let's talk with Jack Ann Holland, Ohio Line for Independence. | ||
| Good morning, Jack. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, thank you. | |
| Yeah, I guess what Elon Musk is tentatively, you know, supposedly saving the country so many billions of dollars. | ||
| And my question is: why don't they look within? | ||
| Donald Trump is going to spend $45 million on his parade. | ||
| Leon Musk made $38 billion from the U.S. government for his Tesla, you know, and for his SpaceX project. | ||
| So it appears to me to be pretty contradictory that if they're saving money, they're saving the taxpayer money. | ||
| And why are they billing the taxpayers for their own benefit? | ||
| Once again, Donald Trump is charging the taxpayers $45 million for a parade. | ||
| And Leon Musk is charging the taxpayers $30 or has already charged the taxpayer $38 billion for his Tesla and his SpaceX project. | ||
| So if that don't call the pedal the kettle black, I don't know just what does, you know. | ||
| So I just think these Republicans need to really take a close look at what they're hearing, you know, and then reconsider exactly or look at the resources where they're getting their information from and take a further look at their leaders. | ||
| That was Jack. | ||
| And our last call for this portion of Washington Journal. | ||
| Later this morning on the program, Atlantic Council Nuclear Energy Policy Initiative Director Jennifer Gordon will discuss recent Trump administration actions aimed at increasing U.S. nuclear energy production. | ||
| The first Politico-Pentagon reporter Paul McLeary joins us to discuss President Trump's proposal to build a new missile defense system or Golden Dome to counter threats to the U.S. | ||
| And as we head to break, this is a headline of Paul's most recent story, Secretary Hagseth's warning to Asian allies overnight of the, quote, imminent threat China poses to the region. | ||
| Secretary Hagseth making those remarks at a security conference in Singapore yesterday. | ||
| Here's a clip from that event. | ||
| Every day, you see it, China's military harasses Taiwan. | ||
| These activities have been paired with China's rapid military modernization and buildup, including huge investments in nuclear weapons, hypersonics, and amphibious assault capabilities. | ||
| It has to be clear to all that Beijing is credibly preparing to potentially use military force to alter the balance of power in the Indo-Pacific. | ||
| We know, it's public, that Xi has ordered his military to be capable of invading Taiwan by 2027. | ||
| The PLA is building the military needed to do it, training for it every day, and rehearsing for the real deal. | ||
| Admiral Poparo has spoken very clearly about this on multiple occasions. | ||
| Again, to be clear, any attempt by Communist China to conquer Taiwan by force would result in devastating consequences for the Indo-Pacific and the world. | ||
| There's no reason to sugarcoat it. | ||
| The threat China poses is real and it could be imminent. | ||
| We hope not, but it certainly could be. | ||
| Facing these threats, we know that many countries are tempted by the idea of seeking both economic cooperation with China and defense cooperation with the United States. | ||
| Now, that is a geographic necessity for many. | ||
| But beware the leverage that the CCP seeks with that entanglement. | ||
| Economic dependence on China only deepens their malign influence and complicates our defense decision space during times of tension. | ||
| Nobody knows what China will ultimately do, but they are preparing. | ||
| And therefore, we must be ready as well. | ||
| Urgency and vigilance is our only option at the Department of Defense with our allies because the United States, especially under President Trump, does not seek war. | ||
| We do not seek to dominate or strangle China, to encircle or provoke. | ||
| We do not seek regime change, nor will we instigate or disrespect a proud and historic culture. | ||
| We will be ready, but we will not be reckless. | ||
| Instead, we seek peace. | ||
| But we must ensure that China cannot dominate us or our allies and partners. | ||
| Maintaining the status quo requires strength. | ||
| That's just a rational, common sense goal that we should all be able to live with. | ||
| President Trump has also said that Communist China will not invade Taiwan on his watch. | ||
| So our goal is to prevent war, to make the cost too high, and peace the only option. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Washington Journal continues. | |
| Joining us now to discuss President Trump's proposal to build a new missile defense system, or Golden Dome, is Paul McLeary. | ||
| He is a Pentagon reporter for Politico. | ||
| Paul, thank you for being with us. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thanks. | |
| Good morning. | ||
| We will start with President Trump recently signing an executive order in regards to this new missile defense system. | ||
| What does the EO say? | ||
|
unidentified
|
The EAO calls upon the Defense Department to build this Golden Dome, right? | |
| This national missile, cruise and ballistic missile defense program. | ||
| And he wants it done pretty quickly. | ||
| He wants it done in his term, right? | ||
| So this will be a combination of ground-based interceptors, missiles that will hit missiles coming in, space-based interceptors and trackers, satellites, some of which we already have, and new ones, and also some airborne warning and some probably maritime warning and knockdown capabilities. | ||
| It's a hugely ambitious program, especially something to do by the end of his term, which we have some of these capabilities already. | ||
| Some more can be developed relatively quickly. | ||
| But doing something of this scale by the end of his term, he wants to spend $175 billion, but that's over about 10 years or so. | ||
| It's a massive undertaking, and it would require really most of the Pentagon to focus on this pretty intently, probably move money around. | ||
| Some programs will lose out, some programs will gain, Space Force will gain prominence, the Air Force will have a big chunk of it. | ||
| But a lot remains to be seen just because we don't know it was done quickly. | ||
| You kind of made the ask without a lot of planning beforehand. | ||
| So a lot remains to be seen, timeline, exactly what this is going to be, how this works. | ||
| So I think every day will be something new and something interesting from DOD and Space Force about where we are here. | ||
| We'll talk more about the things you just mentioned, including something you said that the U.S. already has some of these capabilities. | ||
| What is the current U.S. defense for missiles? | ||
| What does the setup look like? | ||
| How exactly would this be different? | ||
| And is there anything that a golden dome wouldn't protect against? | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| What we have now is a ballistic missile defense program that's mostly land-based, right? | ||
| There's missile silos in California that can knock missiles down. | ||
| It's mostly focused on North Korea and Iran, right? | ||
| Things coming kind of over the pole. | ||
| There's been lots of problems with the interceptors that we do have already for decades now. | ||
| They're trying out new interceptors. | ||
| They don't always work. | ||
| I know the new program is running into some trouble right now about its cost overruns and schedule delays and things like that. | ||
| So that's what we have now for that sort of threat. | ||
| We also have a maritime layer where destroyers at sea can knock down missiles as well and track missiles. | ||
| So it's somewhat comprehensive, but more can be done. | ||
| And the space-based layer of launching new satellites and even hitting things from outer space has been talked about for years and years and years. | ||
| And something that's been in the works, fits and starts. | ||
| It's not really sure how they're going to do it yet. | ||
| And so this is really going to energize and supercharge that effort, which a lot of folks in the Pentagon and analysts will say this had to be done anyway, right? | ||
| Especially with China's military rise, we need something more than these interceptors on the West Coast. | ||
| There's been talk for years as well about putting more interceptors in the ground on the East Coast somewhere. | ||
| I think New York State's kind of made a pitch, New Hampshire and places like that, but that would take years to dig these silos into the ground. | ||
| You'd have to man it and fund it over time and things like that. | ||
| So this could revise Those plans, but it's really, we just don't know yet. | ||
| We're at the very, very early stages. | ||
| When it comes to cost, a couple of your recent headlines. | ||
| One, Trump to announce $25 billion funding for Golden Dome project. | ||
| The other, Trump unveils $175 billion, three-year price tag for Golden Dome. | ||
| Do we know how much this project could ultimately cost? | ||
| Where is the money coming from? | ||
| What's the status of any appropriations for the project right now? | ||
|
unidentified
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Well, those are exactly the questions we're all asking, right? | |
| The $25 billion is in the reconciliation bill that is in the Senate now. | ||
| The House passed it. | ||
| So that'll be pretty immediate funding for development of some of these space-based assets and things like that. | ||
| $175 billion, they say goes over three years. | ||
| It'll be hard to spend that much money in three years. | ||
| I mean, the government's good at spending money, but that's a big ask. | ||
| The Congressional Budget Office has suggested this could cost about $540 billion over the next 10 to 20 years, which is a lot of money. | ||
| I mean, DOD is pushing a trillion dollars budget this year, and to add all this on top of it would be a lift. | ||
| I mean, it would further, you know, it would be debt money, right? | ||
| And also, just because you throw money at something doesn't mean that money can be spent, right? | ||
| You have to have an open bid. | ||
| You have to talk to contractors, the Lockheed Martins and Raytheons of the world, get their bids, et cetera, et cetera. | ||
| It takes a long time. | ||
| You can't just throw $25 billion at something in one year and it happens. | ||
| It'll take months to negotiate these contracts. | ||
| You have to have requirements, et cetera, et cetera. | ||
| So all that money sounds really good and it sounds like it can make things happen quickly. | ||
| But in government, things don't usually happen very quickly. | ||
| Although Trump has been good at kind of kicking the government in the butt and making things work a little faster. | ||
| But when you're talking about technology development and integrating space and land and sea assets, that's tricky. | ||
| That's hard stuff. | ||
| And that takes time and a lot of money, as we've seen. | ||
| Our guest for the next 35 minutes or so is Paul McLeary, Pentagon reporter for Politico. | ||
| Our topic is President Trump's proposal to build a new missile defense system or Golden Dome. | ||
| If you have a question or comment for Paul, you can start calling in now the lines, Democrats 202-748-8000. | ||
| Republicans 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Independents 202-748-8002. | ||
| Paul, the role that Canada could play has come up. | ||
| President Trump posted on social media earlier this week that the country is considering becoming the 51st state in exchange for the protection, the use of this shield. | ||
| I want to play a sought from White House Press Secretary Caroline Lovett. | ||
| She got a question about it, and then we'll talk about it on the other side. | ||
|
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On Golden Dome, the President put out this number of $61 billion. | |
| How did he arrive at that? | ||
| Is that the number it will cost to protect Canada and is it negotiable? | ||
| Or where did it come from? | ||
| I can certainly ask the president and I can check in with our research team and we'll get you the facts on that number. | ||
| But the Golden Dome is certainly a significant investment in our nation's national security and homeland security to protect Americans, all of you in this room, from future threats. | ||
|
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Have the Canadians been talking in good faith about paying to begin it? | |
| I know they expressed some interest. | ||
| Well, the President has certainly expressed to the Canadians how we are essentially subsidizing their national defense. | ||
| He brought it up in his meeting with our new leader here. | ||
| And as you know, we'll be traveling to Canada next month for the G7. | ||
|
unidentified
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So I expect that topic of discussion to come up on that trip as well. | |
| That $61 billion is the price tag for Canada. | ||
| That's what President Trump is proposing to them versus exchange for the 51st, becoming the 51st state. | ||
| You had a headline, bad news for Trump's Golden Dome. | ||
| He can't build it without Canada. | ||
| What is Canada's role in this potential defense? | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, I mean, the United States and Canada have worked hand-in-glove on missile defense for decades, right? | |
| NORAD's been around since the 50s. | ||
| And the Canadians, NORAD is, you know, a Western hemisphere kind of missile tracking and system. | ||
| We have radars in Canada, radars in the United States. | ||
| You know, if Russian bombers come near the Alaskan coast, Canadian F-18s scramble to meet it or U.S. F-22. | ||
| So we work very closely on this issue. | ||
| We always have. | ||
| I mean, Canada right now just kicked off a 38 billion modernization program for the NORAD air and missile defense program. | ||
| So the Canadians take this very, very seriously. | ||
| And the fact is, I don't think we can do it without Canada. | ||
| I mean, we can do the space-based layer of satellites for tracking and shootdowns, which is going to take some time. | ||
| But the fact is, we're going to have to have ground radars in Canada. | ||
| Canadians, more than happy to fund it, could protect them as well. | ||
| Because a lot of these missiles, if they're fired from Iran or even North Korea, will come over Canadian airspace. | ||
| So we need that layer. | ||
| Space can't do everything, so you need the ground-based layer. | ||
| And the Canadians want in. | ||
| Mark Carney, the new Canadian prime minister, has said that they are willing to spend billions of dollars to help the United States do this, and they want in. | ||
| And there's really no way to do it without some participation of Canada. | ||
| $61 billion, as with all these other numbers, we don't really know where that comes from fully. | ||
| But I think the Canadians, you know, since they're already in some hot water with NATO, right, because their defense spending is about 1.2% of their GDP, which is way below the 2% level demanded by NATO. | ||
| So Canadians are already kind of the doghouse in NATO. | ||
| So they're looking for ways to spend money. | ||
| This is one way that they could increase their defense budget, help missile defense, and make President Trump happy. | ||
| So they're in. | ||
| We have callers waiting to talk with you. | ||
| We'll start with Barbara in Oak Bluffs, Massachusetts, Line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Barbara. | ||
|
unidentified
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Good morning, superb guests, superb host, as always. | |
| A few months back, I was listening to NPR in my car one morning and heard that the Defense Department was planning to, quote unquote, upgrade our nuclear arsenal to the tune of billions and billions. | ||
| Here's what I'd like to do. | ||
| I'd like President Trump to get the Nobel Peace Prize, which he obviously covets, and would richly deserve, should he make a U-turn and launch the worldwide denuclearization and destruction of all nuclear weapons. | ||
| The mutually assured destruction has kept us safe since Nagasaki and Hiroshima and way before we were globalized like this. | ||
| So also in conjunction with President Trump, if we substitute trade relations with war relations, perhaps we can leave our caveman neurology behind and live in the modern world in peace. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Yeah, Trump, we've saw even the first administration, he's no fan of nuclear weapons, right? | ||
| He wanted to talk to North Korea. | ||
| He wanted to talk to the Russians about it. | ||
| He did a bit in the first administration. | ||
| He wanted to talk to the Chinese about it, who aren't willing to speak about giving up their nukes. | ||
| But if Trump had his way, I think a lot of nukes would be abolished. | ||
| He's not a fan of them, and he doesn't think they're necessary, as we've seen for years in his comments on it. | ||
| So we'll see if the Russians and the Chinese want to give theirs up. | ||
| It would be a long road, but I think he would be willing to negotiate about nukes. | ||
| There has been some global response to President Trump's proposal of what our other countries, and especially the ones that are also nuclear powers, what are they saying? | ||
|
unidentified
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There's been a lot of confusion about the Golden Dome. | |
| I think that a lot of countries in Europe, I mean, the UK and France and other nuclear powers, they have their own concerns and fears with the administration, mostly their own defense spending, things like that. | ||
| So there hasn't been a whole lot. | ||
| I mean, I think some of the allies like the UK has said that they're willing to help, you know, technology development, things like that. | ||
| I mean, everyone would want to be part of a huge cruise and missile and ballistic missile defense program, right? | ||
| But it depends how you do this, how big it is. | ||
| If you globalized it, it would be even massive, the massive scale of it already would be clearly even bigger. | ||
| So there hasn't been a whole lot. | ||
| I mean, right now, a lot of those allies in Europe are preparing for the NATO summit in The Hague next month, which Trump will attend. | ||
| And so I think they're just trying to get their ducks in a row about their own defense spending. | ||
| And Russia and Ukraine before that summit goes. | ||
| So I think they're sitting back and kind of watching and waiting to see what happens here. | ||
| Our guest is Paul McLeary, Pentagon reporter for Politico. | ||
| If you have a question or comment for him, the phone lines, Democrats, 202-748-8000. | ||
| Republicans, 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Independents, 202-748-8002. | ||
| Let's talk with Michael in Plainfield, Illinois, Line for Independence. | ||
| Hi, Michael. | ||
|
unidentified
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Hi. | |
| I've got a question which I'm trying to get my head around, but I just want you to know I voted for Trump in 2016, and I was in service during the Vietnam War. | ||
| And I just want to know who are we defending with this Golden Dome or whatever it's called, because they're cutting Social Security. | ||
| They're cutting Medicare. | ||
| They're cutting Medicaid. | ||
| They don't want to have any poor people, obviously, in this country. | ||
| Only tax breaks for the wealthy, like Musk and Bezos and these crowd. | ||
| And we go on and on, and my benefits and my life is just shrinking. | ||
| Inflation is eating me alive. | ||
| So what are we defending? | ||
| This is a program to defend the rich, and I don't support it. | ||
| Give me your thoughts, please. | ||
| And the idea here is to counter any missile, nuclear or conventional missile attacks from Iran, China, North Korea, and Russia. | ||
| The Chinese in particular have increased their spending on ballistic missiles, conventional and nuclear, pretty significantly. | ||
| Last Trump administration, we pulled out of the IMF treaty, which kind of capped the number of missiles that the United States and Russia could have. | ||
| We pulled out because China wasn't a party to it, right? | ||
| And so it wasn't really fair for the United States, the argument went, to limit our own production and the range of our missiles when the Chinese and the North Koreans weren't doing it. | ||
| And the Russians were cheating on it. | ||
| So it was basically just us. | ||
| So I think the threat's real. | ||
| There are rogue regimes like North Korea who could do things. | ||
| We see the Houthis shooting missiles at Israel almost on a daily basis. | ||
| So there is the threat there. | ||
| And as I said before, Trump clearly is concerned about the nuclear threat. | ||
| So it's something that folks have been calling for for a long, long time. | ||
| It's just the funding has been tough to do. | ||
| The technology isn't quite there. | ||
| So this program is meant to kind of kickstart that technology development. | ||
| And I think they're going to look to a lot of non-traditional defense companies like the Palantirs and Andrils and people like that to help on this on the satellite bit, on the data sharing bit and things like that. | ||
| So it's going to kind of expand the universe of defense contracting and push some technologies ahead, which wouldn't be a terrible thing. | ||
| But I mean, the proof will be this is going to be a multi-administration effort. | ||
| So it's not only what the Trump administration wants to spend and develop, it's whoever comes next, you know, Democrat or Republican, if they want to continue on this program. | ||
| Or if there are, there's going to be technology problems, there's going to be roadblocks, there's going to be, I can almost guarantee it's going to be cost and schedule overruns. | ||
| And will there be a stomach across multiple administrations, Democrat and Republican, to keep funding something like this and keep pouring money into it? | ||
| You mentioned earlier that $25 billion right now is in the appropriation budget that the Senate is considering. | ||
| It's already been passed by the House. | ||
| That budget, most departments saw cuts to their overall funding. | ||
| Department of Defense is one of them that saw an increase. | ||
| In addition to Golden Dome, what else could that is that money earmarked for? | ||
| That increase earmarked for? | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, it's $150 billion extra for the Department of Defense that Congress has, well, the House has passed and the Senate's working on now, which is a pretty remarkable sum of money, right? | |
| Without that $150 billion, the defense budget put forth by the White House would be flat from previous years. | ||
| And when inflation is factored in, it'd actually kind of be a cut, right? | ||
| So when the White House claims that they've added all this money to the defense budget to bring it close to a trillion dollars, they really haven't. | ||
| It was flat, you know, edging on a cut. | ||
| And then this $150 billion will fund not only the Golden Dome, it's going to be funding for the F-47, the new sixth-generation fighter plane. | ||
| There's massive investments in shipbuilding and shipyards. | ||
| The Navy's Columbia-class submarine needs a lot of help. | ||
| So they're pumping money into the submarine industrial base, drones, other missile defense programs for short-range missile defense. | ||
| So it's spread out over a pretty wide range of activities. | ||
| That said, the Army is probably going to see some force cuts. | ||
| There will be cuts here and there. | ||
| I mean, the Navy's frigate program is in some trouble. | ||
| That might go away in order to fund, to try to speed up construction on destroyers and other kind of proven ship designs that are out there working and effective. | ||
| So it's spread across the surface pretty easily, evenly, and then trying to kickstart some of these new development programs. | ||
| Let's talk with Eric in Modesto, California, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Eric. | ||
|
unidentified
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Hi, how you doing? | |
| We're doing well, Eric. | ||
|
unidentified
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You know, they're talking about building a dome. | |
| I am all for building a dome, you know. | ||
| I mean, if President Trump wants to build a dome, and I know it's costing a lot of money, but you know, I do think it's a good idea to build a dome. | ||
| But America is first. | ||
| America is an example for everyone else. | ||
| I mean, after 9-11, look what happened. | ||
| I mean, there are some very important people in America, like, you know, Ron Howard, you know, George Lucas. | ||
| You know, if anything happens, we all know, you know, if there was anything coming from over here, any place, you know, that they will ship us someplace and will keep us safe so we can rebuild America. | ||
| You know, with the Queen Elizabeth dead, I think, you know, I was just listening to the news and with Prince Charles dead, you know, we never know who's going to attack us, you know. | ||
| I mean, after 9-11, you know, we were so scared as an American, you know. | ||
| And I think it's a good idea. | ||
| I am so glad that President Donald Trump is in the White House and that no matter what he does, you know, he lets the people know. | ||
| So, I mean, no matter, I am in Marsto, California, you know, California is the Silicon Valley. | ||
| You know, I mean, if anything, you know, we want to make sure California is safe. | ||
| So I'm very glad that he is building a dome. | ||
| Eric, we'll get a response from Paul. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, I mean, this is, you know, in a perfect world, it wouldn't be necessary, but it's not a perfect world. | |
| So there is already clearly missile and air defenses in the United States, but this would be something different, right? | ||
| I mean, I think the name of it kind of plays off the Israeli Iron Dome program, which is for short-range missiles, but they've knocked down hundreds or thousands of Hezbollah and Hamas rockets and missiles over the past couple of years with Iron Dome. | ||
| It's incredibly effective. | ||
| And it shoots down drones as well. | ||
| So I think Trump took that and his love for things gold, golden, started the Golden Dome project, which is for long-range missiles, not short-range. | ||
| And unfortunately, North Korea, Iran, Russia, China has these missiles, whether they use them or not. | ||
| Hopefully they don't, but the threat exists. | ||
| A tweet coming in or a post on X from Steve says, remember the Star Wars defense system back in the 90s? | ||
| Ridiculous idea then, even more ridiculous now. | ||
| Talking about Reagan's strategic defense initiative. | ||
| Remind our audience what came out of that and is the comparison to Trump's proposal a fair one? | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| I mean, not a whole lot came out of it. | ||
| There was some technology development that was kept and things like that and moved forward. | ||
| This is the technology is a lot different now than it was in the 80s, obviously. | ||
| There wasn't the capability to do this space-based tracking and even shoot-down, right? | ||
| Using directed energy lasers or missiles from space. | ||
| That just wasn't possible. | ||
| We don't know if it's possible yet. | ||
| It seems like it probably is. | ||
| So it is different now in that the range of possibilities has increased, right? | ||
| We have the AGIS system on our destroyers, which we had then, but the increments get better every year. | ||
| So we are closer to having the technology to do something like this now. | ||
| It's just a matter of can we network it and knit it all together and afford it. | ||
| 25 billion in one year, 175 billion to 540 billion is a lot of money, especially at a time when another caller said that there are cuts or proposed cuts to entitlement programs at home. | ||
| Inflation is high, which makes everything more expensive. | ||
| So this will be a difficult project even under the best of circumstances. | ||
| But there is, the analysts I've spoken to, independent folks from the Pentagon, do think that this is possible in the long run, not in the next three years. | ||
| We can have some sort of new capability in the next three years, but it's not going to be a complete project by the end of the Trump administration by any means, either under the best case circumstances. | ||
| Let's hear from Pete in Massachusetts, Line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Pete. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, good morning. | |
| Hey, I'm going to take a little bit different spin on your expertise at the Pentagon. | ||
| First, How did the upper echelon people feel about this incompetent new administration, namely Hegseth and Trump? | ||
| I can't believe they're too happy about eminently qualified people like Millie and C.Q. Brown, you know, sent packing and replaced with this guy Kane. | ||
| So I'd like your, is there a chance of mass defections, retirements because of the incompetence of these people? | ||
| And what does the Pentagon feel about the idiotic parade that's coming up in two weeks? | ||
| So I'd like your answers to those couple questions. | ||
| Well, the first one, I mean, we've seen with Elon Musk's Doge initiative and the fork in the road email that he sent out early in the administration. | ||
| A lot of folks, a lot of career folks in the Pentagon did take that deal, you know, where they get paid through September and early retirement, things like that, just because of the uncertainty about who gets cut, where it gets cut, where cuts come from. | ||
| So people across very qualified career people, you know, worked with Democratic and Republican administrations, have left the Pentagon. | ||
| I mean, they took the deal and took the check and left. | ||
| We did see some officers retire late last year when Senator Tuberville, the Republican Senator from Alabama, held up hundreds of promotions at DOD for a variety of reasons. | ||
| And there was this kind of a wave of lieutenant colonels and colonels who just said, okay, you know, I've been sitting in this limbo for six, seven, eight months, a year. | ||
| You know, my family wants to move and I want to move on with my life. | ||
| And so they did leave. | ||
| But right now, I think that there is a renewed focus on national security and funding the Pentagon. | ||
| So that heartens a lot of people in the building. | ||
| Hagseth's management obviously has been called into question. | ||
| He's fired a raft of senior advisors, a lot of infighting. | ||
| He's pretty obsessed with leaks. | ||
| You know, he's given, he wanted to give polygraph tests to everyone on his staff. | ||
| You know, he's kicked a bunch of us out of the Pentagon by our desks, including us at Politico. | ||
| They're restricting the movements of reporters inside the Pentagon just because they think all the leaks are coming from certain areas and things like that. | ||
| So there's a bit of paranoia at the upper echelons of the Pentagon. | ||
| But I don't think military leaders are going to resign or retire en masse. | ||
| As far as the parade goes, the Army is saying about 25 to 45 million for this parade, which it does fall on the Army's 250th birthday. | ||
| So they've been planning this for a year. | ||
| But their birthday, they share a birthday with Donald Trump. | ||
| So he's going to be involved. | ||
| He'll be there. | ||
| He's going to re-enlist a couple hundred soldiers, things like that. | ||
| But the Army insists that they're planning on doing this. | ||
| They were planning on going big for a long time. | ||
| There's going to be 6,600 soldiers marching. | ||
| There's going to be B-25 bombers. | ||
| There's going to be dozens of Abrams tanks running down the streets of DC. | ||
| So it's a big lift, and it's something that they definitely didn't just start planning on January 20th. | ||
| It was something that it might be bigger now because they share a birthday with Trump and he wants to go big. | ||
| But this was going to happen. | ||
| Let's hear from William in Mountainside, New Jersey, Line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, William. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, I would like to know whether these missile defense systems anticipate a high-altitude nuclear explosion and what the electromagnetic pulse would do to our infrastructure. | |
| And for that matter, the satellites tracking all these missiles. | ||
| Do they really know what the consequences of this system would be? | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Yeah, I mean it would track anything coming anywhere near American and Canadian airspace, right? | ||
| So if there's a high altitude explosion, they would track that from launch, essentially, right? | ||
| That's part of the program. | ||
| It's not just seeing something when it's coming over the border. | ||
| I mean, if you shoot a missile from the ground to hit another missile, it's like two needles hitting each other in a haystack, basically. | ||
| So they would see it. | ||
| We already can to a certain degree through our space assets, sea launches. | ||
| I mean, that's how we shot down the missiles of the Houthis descent, you know, with the Russians launching at Ukraine. | ||
| You have early warning on that because we have space assets over Ukraine. | ||
| So we've seen this stuff coming. | ||
| The space-space layer does add a complication in that China and Russia have become increasingly aggressive in space. | ||
| You know, there's bumping of satellites to get them out of orbit. | ||
| The Chinese, even Russians have developed these kind of grappling arms on some of their satellites to reach out and grab another satellite. | ||
| So it comes with risks and nothing's perfect. | ||
| And if we do this, the Chinese and Russians will counter, right? | ||
| Either on the ground using different hypersonic missiles, which can kind of move while in flight, they're harder to hit, or in space by increasing the militarization of space. | ||
| And that's something the Chinese have complained about with Golden Dome, saying that this further increases the militarization of space. | ||
| And they claim they don't want to do it, but they've already bumped our satellites and there's already a military competition in space. | ||
| This is a question coming in on X for America Incorporated. | ||
| It's been very active in our discussions this morning, asks, Mr. McCleary, based on your expertise in considering all the conflicts around the world, do you see a need for this initiative? | ||
| Do you know which company would be the prime contractor building this out? | ||
|
unidentified
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I don't know if there'd be one prime contractor. | |
| I mean, we don't, Trump has nominated General Gutlin from the Space Force. | ||
| He's the operational chief of the Space Force to head this up. | ||
| There's no real office for him to run just yet. | ||
| We don't know if there's going to be a Senate confirmable position or if he's going to hold it. | ||
| So there's not staff to build this out. | ||
| The Missile Defense Agency and Pentagon are having a industry day down in Huntsville, Alabama on June 11th. | ||
| And I think there'll be a lot of questions answered then about what this looks like, what exactly they're looking for, what contractors can be involved. | ||
| I mean, that'll be a fascinating event down in Huntsville. | ||
| I mean, because you're going to have the Lockheed's, Raytheons, Boeings, which are going to want to play a major role, but you're also going to have the Palantirs, Andrils, and other smaller but well-funded tech companies and satellite companies who are going to want in. | ||
| And they're the ones who can probably move a little quicker than the traditional primes on building out the space layer and maybe developing and building some of these leap-ahead technologies. | ||
| But we just don't know, to be honest. | ||
| I mean, since there isn't a billet in place to really run, there's a name, but there's no office, there's no staff, there's no real structure. | ||
| And Pentagon's rushing to try to put this, build this plane while it's in flight, right? | ||
| To try to build the structure quickly because the president wants something done in the next three and a half years, which is a tall order for anything. | ||
| Some have suggested that Elon Musk could be involved because of his companies, SpaceX, and he also has Starlink. | ||
| It has to do with satellites. | ||
| What has Elon Musk said about that possibility? | ||
|
unidentified
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Not a whole lot, but I think that I don't see how he wouldn't be involved, right? | |
| As you said, with Starlink and SpaceX, SpaceX is kind of the coin of the realm. | ||
| I mean, they're launching our satellites and payloads into space now. | ||
| So they would be involved, which brings up some issues. | ||
| Like, he's a close advisor and friend of the president. | ||
| So, how much of this will be guided his way? | ||
| How much will they earn? | ||
| That's being closely watched by all of us in the press, and I think probably in the public. | ||
| You know, is this a favorite Elon Musk? | ||
| I think it's more than that. | ||
| It's not just a favorite Elon Musk, but you can't escape that. | ||
| You're not going to escape that sort of criticism and that sort of questioning. | ||
| Dan in Vienna, Virginia, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Dan. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Back in the 80s when Reagan was campaigning, he was talking about his Star Wars. | ||
| After the Soviet leadership died, Gorbachev came in. | ||
| Carlucci, Reagan, the Pope, CIA, they all got together and they bankrupted Russia. | ||
| Reagan had that up his sleeve. | ||
| It was his Trump card. | ||
| They were afraid of Star Wars. | ||
| I think maybe it'll finally get put in, what do you say about that? | ||
| There's a lot that remains to be seen. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, if this works, it would be, and if it's proven effective, it would be a major deterrent to any country considering launching that sort of attack against the United States, right? | ||
| If they know that their attack is going to fail and the United States will retaliate and will probably be successful, that's a major deterrent. | ||
| That's the whole point of air and missile defense, right? | ||
| To act as a deterrent against a first-strike capability by an adversary. | ||
| Tim in Wisconsin, line for Democrats. | ||
| Hi, Tim. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I would just like to ask this gentleman if Trump can just push all this through without any input. | ||
| I mean, without Congress, with the House and the Senate voting on it in the first place, or is this just another pipe dream? | ||
| And I would like to, I mean, in Syria, it's a wonderful idea, but the reality is there any chance that it's going to actually happen. | ||
| And I'd also like to say about this parade, I think it's a good idea, given the fact that Trump can't do anything without having a rap self-grandizing himself. | ||
| I mean, look what he did at West Point. | ||
| Look at he did at Arlington Cemetery, the most sacred ground in the country. | ||
| I mean, he can't stay on the subject, so I believe he's just going to turn it into a do it, and he's really going to be puffed out that day. | ||
| So fast in your seat, Valves, folks. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, as far as the congressional role, I mean, Congress holds the purse strings. | ||
| So Trump says this is going to be a $175 billion project, $25 billion the first year, which Congress has already blessed. | ||
| But you're going to have the Senate, House Armed Services Committees, going to have the Appropriations Committees. | ||
| They're all going to take a swipe at this, and they're all going to demand, which is their job, oversight of the spending, of the overall bill, of the technology development, things like that. | ||
| So every White House learns this lesson every budget cycle, right? | ||
| They put a budget out there, they have their priorities, and then Congress comes in. | ||
| And I mean, the president has to sign off on the bill in the end, but Congress comes in and they have their own priorities, their own constituencies to protect. | ||
| So they can scuttle a program, they can accelerate a program, they can kind of nudge it in a different direction. | ||
| So There's going to be some debate, and I'd imagine at some point some real fights between the Hill and the White House under this administration and if this project goes on under subsequent administrations about how much money we should spend on this, how fast it should go. | ||
| Is it being developed wisely and effectively? | ||
| Is it being implemented? | ||
| So we are not even at the starting line on this program. | ||
| We have a long way to go. | ||
| Congress is happy to do it this year, it seems, but the 2026 budget comes out in a couple weeks, and we'll see what they ask for in that budget, and we'll see what Congress wants to do then if they want to really add tens of billions of dollars a year to the defense budget in order to do this, in order to fund this Golden Dome project and do it consistently year after year after year. | ||
| That's going to be a heavy lift. | ||
| Let's hear from Darryl in East Point, Michigan, Line for Independence. | ||
| Hi, Daryl. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| Good morning. | ||
| I was in Strategic Air Command from 69 to 72. | ||
| At the time, we had the triad system, which I worked with the B-52 bombers and Howard Guard missiles, nuclear missiles. | ||
| And during that time, we used MADS and MADS rocks to say mutual assured destruction. | ||
| I think this talk about Golden Dome theory is just fantastic hyperbole. | ||
| It is totally impossible. | ||
| We've had arms reduction talks and have lowered our arms to 10,000 deliverables, nuclear weapons, Russia 13,000. | ||
| And I don't care what system, how good your technology is, you'll never get below the 50% capability of knocking down half the atomic nuclear weapons that are approaching the United States, which would leave, would be 5,000 nuclear weapons divided over 50 states, would be 100 nuclear weapons per state. | ||
| Mutual assured destruction is here to say any complex new program to knock them out of the sky with, I believe, with satellites and whatever systems we come up with are totally useless and a total useless expenditure of defense funds. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| That's actually a great point. | ||
| And this is one of the core questions of the program. | ||
| Is this being developed to knock down five missiles, 500 missiles, 5,000 missiles? | ||
| What do you do about spoofing? | ||
| What do you do about electronic jamming of satellites and ground-based interceptors and radars? | ||
| Because it's, as you've seen with rockets, with drones, with mortars, and with larger missiles, it is difficult to track and knock down multiple things coming at you at the same time. | ||
| I mean, some are not going to get through. | ||
| Nothing is foolproof. | ||
| So there's always an element of risk, and I think this is about mitigating the risk, but that's a really good point that if you want to try to knock down everything, it's going to become bigger, more expensive, and more unwieldy. | ||
| And I just don't know if the physics exists to be able to do something like that, knock down hundreds of missiles coming in all at once, tracking them and hitting them all at once. | ||
| Let's talk with Duncan. | ||
| He's in the Atlantic Highlands. | ||
| Not sure what state it gets cut off on my screen, but on the line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Duncan. | ||
|
unidentified
|
New Jersey. | |
| New Jersey. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I had a question, what your guest thinks about that. | |
| And you just touched upon it. | ||
| I was waiting to ask a question about the scale of the project compared to your practical application and the effectiveness of such a system. | ||
| I think, and if your guest agrees, it's only really practically a defense against a bolt out of the blue, like a North Korea sending a missile or two, which would be devastating if it hit DC, New York, or California. | ||
| So if you could stop or mitigate that type of small-scale attack, is it worth getting into if the technology can even get there? | ||
| But you could never stop a full, overwhelming attack from Russia, China, or those kind of, or the United States. | ||
| If the United States attacked out the country and they presumably had an anti-ballistic missile system, they could never defend against an overwhelming nuclear assault. | ||
| But it would could be effective on a smaller scale. | ||
| Say if Iran threatened to launch a few missiles and the system could take about and could stop escalation and drawing the bigger nuclear powers into the fray. | ||
| What do you think of that? | ||
| I mean, its only practical application would be a small defense. | ||
| Yeah, most likely. | ||
| We said just a minute ago that if there's a massive attack with hundreds of missiles, right now we couldn't do that. | ||
| We can only hit a few at a time with it with the interceptors we have. | ||
| And I think this Golden Dome, even just in its name, the dome, right? | ||
| I mean, it wants to expand that to a wider range of threats. | ||
| But yeah, if you launch 100, you know, you're hoping to get one through. | ||
| And that's all it would take to, you know, be a massive tragedy. | ||
| So it's difficult to fully understand at this point if they, this is planning on trying to hit everything at once, which is hard. | ||
| None of this has been spelled out. | ||
| I mean, this is a couple months old. | ||
| They're still planning it. | ||
| Like I said, there's a conference in two weeks down in Huntsville to try to explain to industry what they want and what they're looking at. | ||
| Because the defense industry, I've been talking to folks for weeks and everyone's like, we'd love to help, but we don't know what there's some numbers for money, but we have no idea what this is or what they really want or the timeframe and things like that. | ||
| So hopefully we'll know more in just a few weeks. | ||
| We have one last call for you. | ||
| It's John in Rochester, New York, Line for Republicans. | ||
| Hi, John. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning and good morning to you, Paul. | |
| And, you know, the last callers, I tried to call earlier and then I had to do something. | ||
| I'm glad I got through. | ||
| But the last couple of callers, you know, I absolutely agree and understand a full-blown nuclear launch is the end. | ||
| You know, that just leaves anything living envying the dead. | ||
| And the limited capability for the dome. | ||
| But like you said, it'll be interesting to see what happens in Star City there in Alabama coming up. | ||
| The one thing we know for sure is that, what are they saying, $153 billion right now? | ||
| Probably when all is said and done, if there ever is a golden dome, you can figure out it costing about three to four times that as much with the way development goes. | ||
| But anything big, just like Israel, anything big that comes toward Israel, they can't stop it all. | ||
| And then there's even a chance that limited shots and the technology won't work effectively. | ||
| John, we're short on time, so we'll get a response from Paul. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So John, first, most importantly, Go Bills up in Rochester, to us my hometown, Buffalo. | |
| Yeah, I mean, this is the question of scale that we've been touching on, right? | ||
| Not really sure what the scale of it's going to be. | ||
| And as far as the cost goes, there's upfront costs. | ||
| For weapon systems, upfront costs are always big, but the real cost is the maintenance and Operation of this stuff, right? | ||
| You have a tank that costs, you know, $15, $20 million to build or whatever it is. | ||
| Over the course of that tank's life, you're going to spend triple that on maintenance and upkeep and things like that. | ||
| So the scale of it on the outset has to be weighed against keeping these satellites in the air, building new satellites, upgrading the software constantly, linking this with F-35s, F-22s, F-47s, ships at sea, things like that. | ||
| So just the numbers we're seeing now are vague, to be honest. | ||
| You know, the $150 million, the $500 billion, the $25 billion, that's all vague stuff. | ||
| But then spread out over the 50, 60, 70 years. | ||
| I mean, it's a massive, massive bill. | ||
| Paul McLeary is a Pentagon reporter for Politico. | ||
| You can find his work online at Politico.com. | ||
| Paul, thank you so much for being with us. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| Next on Washington Journal, Atlantic Council Nuclear Energy Policy Initiative Director Jennifer Gordon joins us to discuss recent Trump administration actions that are aimed at increasing U.S. nuclear energy production. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
|
unidentified
|
American History TV, exploring the people and events that tell the American story. | |
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| Then at 10.30 p.m. Eastern on Afterwards, Republican Oklahoma Senator James Lankford shares his book, Turnaround, where he speaks about his faith, the challenges the country faces, and what he believes needs to happen to improve the country. | ||
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| This fall, ceasefire on the network that doesn't take sides, only on C-SPAN. | ||
| Washington Journal continues. | ||
| Joining us now to discuss the Trump administration and nuclear energy production is Jennifer Gordon. | ||
| She is the Nuclear Energy Policy Initiative Director for the Atlantic Council. | ||
| Jennifer, thank you for being with us. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you so much. | |
| Before we start, why don't you tell us, remind our audience about the Atlantic Council, your mission, who you work with, and how you're funded. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Absolutely. | |
| Thank you so much. | ||
| So the Atlantic Council was founded in 1961, originally with the mission of supporting the NATO alliance, and that has remained at the core of who we are. | ||
| It is baked into our DNA. | ||
| But in the years since 1961, our remit has expanded, and now we work on every region in the world. | ||
| And we also have a number of functional areas that we specialize in. | ||
| So the Nuclear Energy Policy Initiative is housed within our global energy center. | ||
| We work on, again, all energy sources, all regions. | ||
| And our mission is supporting the future and strengthening the future through our work with partners and allies around the world. | ||
| And so the way that I think of nuclear energy fitting into that is that it's really about the geopolitics. | ||
| How do we cooperate with our partners and allies? | ||
| How do we compete against our adversaries, primarily Russia and China? | ||
| And how do we work to have a safer and more secure world for future generations? | ||
| And you have been working with the initiative for about seven years. | ||
| Explain your role as director. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Absolutely. | |
| So I was originally hired to be the deputy director of the Global Energy Center. | ||
| And at that time, we were, again, I was working on everything energy related. | ||
| And in 2021, at the end of that year, we actually stood up the Nuclear Energy Policy Initiative because it had become such a strong pillar of our work on energy. | ||
| And so I stood that up at the end of that year with my team. | ||
| And I've been the director since then. | ||
| And our topic for this segment is the Trump administration and recent actions that they've taken to increase U.S. nuclear energy production. | ||
| President Trump recently signed executive orders to boost that power. | ||
| I want to show a full screen that lists the names of these and we'll have you talk a little bit more about them. | ||
| One is deploying nuclear reactor technologies for national security. | ||
| Another ordering the reform of the Nuclear React Regulatory Commission. | ||
| Another reforming nuclear reactor testing at the Department of Energy. | ||
| And the fourth one is reinvigorating the nuclear industrial base. | ||
| You had a very nice piece that broke down exactly what those mean. | ||
| Tell us about the key provisions and the impact they could have. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Absolutely. | |
| So first of all, let me say there is a lot in these executive orders. | ||
| I think I spent the entire weekend last weekend reading them. | ||
| The executive orders were signed on Friday afternoon, the Friday heading into Memorial Day weekend. | ||
| So that was interesting. | ||
| And again, there's a lot in there. | ||
| There is not that much that's new. | ||
| And I do want to talk about what's new. | ||
| But what we're actually seeing is a lot of continuity, first of all, from the first Trump administration, then actually to the Biden administration. | ||
| And in fact, the fourth of those orders that you just read references the Nuclear Fuel Security Act, which was a law signed by the Biden administration in 2023. | ||
| And then, of course, now moving into this second Trump administration. | ||
| So the first of these orders, the national security order, talks about deploying nuclear reactors for national security cases, talks about AI, talks about using advanced reactors at military installations. | ||
| And essentially, it poses DOD, the Department of Defense, as a first customer for the next generation of reactors. | ||
| And this is not new. | ||
| And the DOD, as a first customer, this is how we have any number of innovations that we use in our daily lives. | ||
| It's how we have GPS, it's how we have the internet, duct tape. | ||
| So, you know, reactors are expensive, and I am not going to sugarcoat that. | ||
| But what the DOD has the potential to do, again, by serving as first customer, is to create that demand signal that we're already seeing, by the way, from plenty of other actors across many different industries. | ||
| But DOD actually has the money to put down, to pay for next-generation reactors at their installations. | ||
| Again, this is in the United States, so extremely safe, extremely secure. | ||
| And that will help to set up a supply chain, both in terms of the actual materials that are needed to construct these reactors, and also it really helps with workforce development. | ||
| The next executive order on reforming the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the NRC, again, extremely interesting. | ||
| It really, I think, piggybacks off of the Advance Act, which again was signed last year in the Biden administration. | ||
| And it works to streamline and make the NRC a little bit more efficient. | ||
| There are a couple concerning things, I think, in this executive order. | ||
| It mentions OMB and DOE as playing a stronger role. | ||
| And I think there's a concern, especially when you read that order in the context of the February order, the February executive order, on making independent agencies more accountable. | ||
| There's a concern that it might start to chip away at some of the independence of the NRC, which is, again, one of the reasons why other countries come to work with us, why other countries want to buy U.S. civil nuclear exports, is because of our independent NRC, our regulatory commission, which is really the gold standard in global regulatory bodies. | ||
| The shortest, I believe, of the orders is the third one whose title you read on nuclear energy testing capacity and making sure that DOE has that test capacity. | ||
| Essentially, what that means is it allows the industry and allows the government to test components of next generation reactors, next generation types of fuel to make sure that they're safe, to understand how long they can run without becoming degraded. | ||
| And so trying to build test facilities at DOE. | ||
| And I think the last one is about reinvigorating the industrial base. | ||
| And so that touches a lot on workforce. | ||
| It touches on fuel, nuclear fuel, the fuel cycle, the back end of the fuel cycle, so recycling, reprocessing, also the front end of the fuel cycle, making sure that we have a domestic supply of enriched uranium. | ||
| And so that all taken together, again, it's a lot. | ||
| But a lot remains to be seen as well. | ||
| And I think the key thing to watch will be how all of these things are implemented, how they're all taken as a whole. | ||
| Our guest for the next 30, 35 minutes or so is Jennifer Gordon. | ||
| She is the Nuclear Energy Policy Initiative Director at the Atlantic Council. | ||
| If you have a question for her, you can start calling in now the lines: Democrats 202-748-8000. | ||
| Republicans 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Independents 202-748-8002. | ||
| Jennifer, the EOs are targeted at increasing production and output. | ||
| Nuclear energy is something the U.S. is already producing, is already putting out the latest numbers show that there are 54, currently 54 nuclear power plants operating in the U.S. What is the current production output and how close is that to capacity output? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, absolutely. | |
| So the nuclear fleet right now in the United States produces about 97 gigawatts of electricity per year. | ||
| And what the Trump administration has said is that they want to increase that by fourfold. | ||
| So by 2050, they want it to be about 400 gigawatts. | ||
| Now, this is a little bit of a plus-up from the Biden administration's tripling nuclear power by 2050. | ||
| And I will say as well, in terms of capacity, I believe it's the average nuclear power plant runs at about 92, 93% capacity. | ||
| So that means that it is almost always on and providing baseload, reliable, clean power essentially all the time. | ||
| So it's the highest capacity factor of any energy source. | ||
| And so, again, we're really, really fortunate in the United States in our existing fleet. | ||
| And I think it's a lot to say that we will quadruple that by 2050. | ||
| But again, that's what we really need in order to achieve that goal, I think, is that policy and regulatory certainty that I think is what these executive orders, taken as a whole, are trying to outline for us. | ||
| We have callers waiting to talk with you. | ||
| And this one is in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, that has a history of nuclear reactors. | ||
| We'll talk with Steve, Line for Democrats. | ||
| Steve, are you there? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, good morning. | |
| Listen, I live in the secret city of Oak Ridge, Tennessee. | ||
| Grew up here. | ||
| I moved back here several years ago after retired from teaching in North Carolina. | ||
| And here's what's going on: TDA is already in the process of breaking ground to build a prototype reactor about two miles from my house. | ||
| Also, at the old gaseous diffusion plant, they are building another prototype reactor as well as an enrichment plant. | ||
| And this has been going on for years. | ||
| Trump ain't doing anything that wasn't already in the works, okay? | ||
| And TDA is closing all their coal plants because they've got enough nuclear plants online to cover the needs right now. | ||
| So I just want to let people know that all of this stuff has been in the work for at least five years, four years, seven years. | ||
| I'm not sure exactly, but it's all in the works right now. | ||
| And Trump's taking credit for stuff that he didn't do. | ||
| And I appreciate it. | ||
| Thanks. | ||
| So I think, first of all, Steve, I really appreciate your call. | ||
| And I think when we look at states that want to be first leaders and first movers into advanced nuclear technologies, Tennessee and Governor Bill Lee has stood up and said, We want to be first. | ||
| A number of other governors and other states have also said we want to be first. | ||
| I think, in my personal opinion, that Tennessee has a number of the key ingredients that it will take to be first movers into next generation technologies. | ||
| You have TVA, you have Oak Ridge National Laboratory, you have, I think it's something like 90 nuclear reactor developer companies just in East Tennessee alone, and that doesn't even count the rest of the state. | ||
| So you have a lot of the ingredients required. | ||
| And I think I want to go back for just a moment because, again, looking at the domestic policy space and domestic deployment, I think is really, really important when we look at the international space as well. | ||
| The United States wants to be first and we should be first in international civil nuclear exports because we have the highest standards in safety, security, and nonproliferation. | ||
| And so the United States, along with our allies, want to be the primary exporters of nuclear energy technologies. | ||
| And we want to beat Russia and China in this game, which is a very serious game. | ||
| And it's really not going to be possible to do that unless we have a strong domestic deployment plan. | ||
| And so we need states like Tennessee and many, many others to step forward and say we are going to work to deploy the next generation of nuclear technologies. | ||
| Dave in Canton, Ohio, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Dave. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, Jennifer. | |
| I have a simple question. | ||
| How much does a nuclear power plant cost? | ||
| So it's very difficult to determine the actual cost of a nuclear power plant. | ||
| One method that people use to determine electricity costs is the levelized cost of electricity. | ||
| There are some issues with that, with that calculation, because it doesn't take into account the cost of transmission. | ||
| Nuclear, again, as I said before, it is expensive. | ||
| It has high upfront costs. | ||
| Eventually, over time, they essentially pay for themselves because, again, they provide affordable, reliable, clean, always-on energy. | ||
| But I think, again, this gap that we're trying to bridge here and that these executive orders are trying to help bridge is that jump from where we are right now to where we need to be so that we can get to the point where the reactors are essentially paying for themselves. | ||
| Don in Ashburn, Virginia, line for Republicans. | ||
| Hi, Don. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| I'd like to ask about the vulnerability of nuclear energy production. | ||
| A few weeks ago, I heard a podcast that discussed this, well, nuclear energy and jet production in general. | ||
| And there was a brief suggestion that they are very vulnerable to an airburst of a nuclear device. | ||
| And unfortunately, they didn't go into detail about that, but they suggested that it was a critical weakness of the technology. | ||
| And it was piggybacked on a discussion of what I'm not sure what they're called, mini systems that might produce electricity for a neighborhood and having many, many, many of those scattered around the country. | ||
| That all these systems would, at best, would shut down. | ||
| And perhaps there was even bigger consequences, like some kind of meltdown. | ||
| But they, again, didn't go into detail. | ||
| Have you heard anything about vulnerabilities? | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| I have not heard anything about the specific vulnerabilities that you mentioned or this notion of the airburst. | ||
| I will say that the existing reactor fleet in the United States has been operating safely and securely. | ||
| We also have actually already deployed but not commercialized next generation technologies, small modular reactors in our naval fleet, and they've been powering our nation's submarines for decades. | ||
| And again, the key there is that they're just not commercialized yet. | ||
| So this is proven and tested technology. | ||
| The U.S. has not experienced a nuclear accident since the partial meltdown of Three Mile Island. | ||
| That was back in 1979. | ||
| What has changed since then? | ||
| Should people still have safety concerns like you just heard from our caller? | ||
|
unidentified
|
So I think right now the fleet has never been safer. | |
| Our experts are fantastic. | ||
| The fleet itself is extremely safe. | ||
| Again, it's been operating safely with no accidents. | ||
| And I think that, you know, if anything, the reactor developers who are working on the next generation of technologies are trying to make them actually even more safer. | ||
| They're implementing safety by design, security by design. | ||
| So really putting in front-end measures to make sure that these are safe from the get-go rather than adding the safety or the security as kind of aftermarket products. | ||
| And so, you know, there are all kinds of things like making it so that next generation reactors can shut down automatically without needing a person there to operate a switch in case there should be, say, a natural disaster, for example. | ||
| So there are all kinds of ways in which the next generation is, again, going to be just as safe and maybe even more. | ||
| John in Braddington, Florida, Line for Democrats. | ||
| Hi, John. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning. | |
| I have a criticism about nuclear power in the fact that it seems like the gist of nuclear power is to boil water to turn a turbine, much like hydroelectric. | ||
| I'm from around Buffalo and we had the Niagara power plant. | ||
| And at the turn of the century, everybody was worried about the water that was going to be taken by the electrical grid to turn these turbines. | ||
| And if all nuclear does is boil water to turn something, and there's this whole after-effect, I think it's misguided that we go down that road. | ||
| And ultimately, the taxpayer is the one who puts the bill because the companies aren't going to do it on their own. | ||
| They always come to us for the money. | ||
| So I think it's misguided. | ||
| And I think we should take the money you're going to put into that and put into other renewable energies because, you know, you have this whole waste problem otherwise. | ||
| Thank you so much, and thanks for bringing this up. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| I absolutely agree that hydropower and geothermal power and wind and solar are appropriate in some circumstances. | ||
| However, not every geography has these assets already built in. | ||
| And so nuclear energy is something that can be built almost anywhere. | ||
| And especially now, again, with these different types and different sizes of reactors, I always say that there's a reactor out there for everyone. | ||
| And so when you have a situation or again, a geography that's not appropriate, doesn't have hydro resources, doesn't have geothermal, I think you have to look elsewhere. | ||
| Another John, this one in West Jefferson, Ohio, Line for Republicans. | ||
| Hi, John. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, hi, Jennifer, and whatever. | |
| I wanted to mention something that, I don't know, it was probably when I was a teenager. | ||
| I'm 69 now. | ||
| I picked up a copy of Popular Science, and there was a depiction of a nuclear power system that was like if you had a subdivision, each block would have a little mini nuclear power plant in the center of the block, and it would power those homes. | ||
| And what they said, oh, it would last for 500 years and there wouldn't be any maintenance. | ||
| And my question is, why does everything nuclear have to be regulated by the government? | ||
| Why can't I go to Home Depot like I would buy a shed and buy a little nuclear plant and stick it in my backyard and can get a couple with totes, fill them with water, circulate it in there so it doesn't have to use groundwater or something? | ||
| You know, why does it all have to be so complicated? | ||
| I mean, that was, you know, probably 1960 or 65 or something when they said they have the technology to do this today. | ||
| Here it is 60 years later. | ||
| You know, we can't do that. | ||
| You know, maybe you can speak on that. | ||
| I'd appreciate it. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| So I will say that nuclear technologies and the fuel and the processes are highly regulated, need to be highly regulated. | ||
| They are dual use. | ||
| So if a country, for example, gets a nuclear reactor to produce nuclear energy, if they have bad intentions, you could actually use that technology to make weapons. | ||
| And if you have the knowledge of how to do that, I'm not saying that you would do that in your own backyard. | ||
| But these are complicated and complex technologies. | ||
| And so the regulation and the regulatory system that we have here in the United States, again, really makes us the global gold standard in terms of independent regulation, in terms of making the best technologies. | ||
| And so it is important that we don't just each get our own mini reactor and our mini plant, because there are some things that I do think need to be left to the experts, and that's the construction and the safety and the maintenance. | ||
| And so again, I think it is wonderful to have nuclear power plants sited and located in your communities where they can provide that always-on power. | ||
| But I don't know that we would want it to be so deregulated or so, you know, given to individuals. | ||
| Jennifer, I wanted to read something to you. | ||
| It's from an article late last year in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, and it hits on the need for this increase in energy that we are discussing. | ||
| It says, in just the past year, U.S. electric utilities have nearly doubled their estimate of how much electricity they'll need in another five years. | ||
| Electric vehicles, cryptocurrency, and a resurgence of American manufacturing are sucking up a lot of electrons. | ||
| But AI is growing faster and is driving rapid expansion of data centers. | ||
| A recent report by the Global Investment Bank Goldman Sachs forecasts that data centers will consume about 8% of all U.S. electricity in 2030, up from 3% today. | ||
| So tech companies are really driving this. | ||
| One of the reasons why there's an increased need for energy, if not nuclear, we had a caller earlier talk about maybe investing in other renewable energies. | ||
| Would those powers like solar or wind be able to generate and do what nuclear can? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't believe that they have that capacity to be always on, regardless of the weather, regardless of other conditions. | |
| And so when you have nuclear, and again, we get back to that question about capacity factors. | ||
| So, how often is any energy source preparing or producing rather electricity? | ||
| And again, the answer is that nuclear power plants are pretty much always producing that. | ||
| And so, when you have this very high demand from the data centers, from the tech companies, there's demand as well for off-grid uses for nuclear reactors. | ||
| So, for example, the mining industry is looking at using micro reactors instead of relying on diesel. | ||
| Oil and gas companies are looking at using micro reactors to power their operations in the Permian. | ||
| We're looking at remote villages in places like Alaska. | ||
| And so, there's all of this electricity demand and power demand kind of all at the same time. | ||
| And so, I think that we talk about the tech companies, we talk about the data centers, and they're looking at nuclear, and I think for very good reasons. | ||
| Let's hear from Paul in Lady Lake, Florida, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Paul. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Thank you for your efforts. | ||
| I have a series of questions that would help me understand these things. | ||
| The first one is: you mentioned 97 gigawatts. | ||
| How many zeros are there in a giga? | ||
| That's the first question. | ||
| Is that about how many zeros is in a gigawatt? | ||
|
unidentified
|
A thousand? | |
| I think he's trying to understand how much energy that is. | ||
| Is there a good way to compare that? | ||
|
unidentified
|
A thousand. | |
| Go ahead, Paul. | ||
|
unidentified
|
How many zeros are there in 97 gigawatts? | |
| It would be 97,000. | ||
| 97,000? | ||
| So there's three zeros in 97 gigawatts? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I don't believe that's correct. | ||
| I think a giga refers to nine zeros. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So that would be nine zeros put after the 97. | |
| 9700000000 watts. | ||
| But that's okay. | ||
| Now, second question for you. | ||
| Of the 97 gigawatts, if you divide the needs for electricity into residential, that is places where people live, versus commercial, places where people do business, will you know how much there is used? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is it half, half, one-third, two-thirds, or what the numbers are that's presently used? | |
| So the 97,000, so 97 gigawatts is equivalent to 97,000 megawatts. | ||
| And in terms of whether it's residential, whether the nuclear reactors are powering residential or whether they're powering business, I mean, I think the truth is when you look at our communities, business and residences and then electric vehicles and individuals charging their electric cars versus businesses charging their electric truck fleets. | ||
| I mean, I think it's all mixed in. | ||
| And so it's tough to say exactly what's required. | ||
| But again, I think that when we look at what we have right now and then increased demand from all of these new demand sources, I think that that quadrupling by 2050 is again very, very ambitious, but it's probably accurate. | ||
| And it looks like 97 gigawatts is equal to 97 billion watts or 97 million kilowatts, if that helps, Paul. | ||
| We'll go to Chris in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Chris. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Hey, so they want to quadruple the number of power plants. | ||
| And the focus seems to be on the actual power plants. | ||
| But another part of this problem of growing nuclear energy is the fuel that's used in the power plants. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's like a whole nother industry. | |
| And so my question is, is what part of that entire problem is the fuel enrichment part? | ||
| And what is the state of our fuel enrichment? | ||
| You know, getting the ore to make the pellets, the whole enrichment, is there a re-enrichment process? | ||
| Do we still have fuel from decommissioned weapons? | ||
| You know, is this going to be another huge problem to build up that industry again? | ||
| So the nuclear fuel cycle is a tremendous issue and tremendous policy issue in the nuclear energy policy space. | ||
| And so that is something that, again, the first Trump administration really tackled head-on, especially in its nuclear fuel working group report that was published in, I believe, 2020. | ||
| And that really looked at the enrichment piece and at the front end of the fuel cycle. | ||
| The Biden administration also continued taking this very, very seriously and implemented and passed a number of pieces of legislation that were intended to increase domestic enrichment capacity so that we are not, that the United States is not dependent on foreign enrichment, especially from Russia. | ||
| And now it seems, again, if you look at these four executive orders that the Trump administration, that Donald Trump signed last week, they really look at the front end of the fuel cycle, the enrichment piece. | ||
| They're also looking at the back end and at commercial recycling, reprocessing for spent nuclear fuel so that the fuel use can become more efficient. | ||
| Another Chris, this one in Bethesda, Maryland, line for Republicans. | ||
| Hi, Chris. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning. | |
| I am actually familiar, somewhat familiar, with the programs and policies of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission. | ||
| And the executive order that was issued directed at the NRC mentions reduction in forces. | ||
| So I just would make the comment, and then I have a follow-up question, that that particular language in the EO has caused a certain amount of uncertainty and even anxiety among Nuclear Regulatory Commission employees. | ||
| But my question is related to, you mentioned international engagement of U.S. nuclear technology. | ||
| And specifically, the Russians and the Chinese have pursued a business model of selling energy to other countries in the world using nuclear technology. | ||
| One of the things that they pursued is floating nuclear power plants, which Russians have actually deployed within their own national boundaries. | ||
| The question is, what kind of strategy should the U.S. have in engaging International partners in selling U.S. nuclear technology in order to aid in energy production and energy provision for other countries. | ||
| This is something that I think the Department of State and Department of Energy should be engaged on. | ||
| But as far as I can tell, they don't seem to be interested in engaging in countering the Russian and Chinese efforts. | ||
| Could you comment on that? | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| And first of all, thank you so much for calling in from Bethesda, which is my hometown. | ||
| And it's also the home of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission. | ||
| So let me comment on that. | ||
| I absolutely agree with you that that note in the executive order last week about the NRC was concerning. | ||
| And I think that actually all of these executive orders have to be read within the context of reductions in force across the U.S. government. | ||
| And so for the administration to lay out this very ambitious plan for licensing and deployment of nuclear reactors while at the same time trying to cut the workforce, I think they're almost undercutting their own agenda. | ||
| They run the risk of undercutting their own agenda. | ||
| That said, there was also a line in the executive order that dealt with the NRC that said that they understood that there might be the necessity to plus up the NRC workforce in certain areas, and especially in the licensing area, because again, they're putting this 18-month deadline on issuing new licenses. | ||
| And then I think in terms of the international angle, the U.S. government actually is very, very engaged on how we counter Russian and Chinese influence and Russian and Chinese civil nuclear exports around the world. | ||
| To go back to, I think it's the first executive order, talks about needing 20 additional 123 agreements. | ||
| So that's Section 123 of the Atomic Energy Act. | ||
| And that's the agreement between the United States and any partner country that would allow the sale and the transfer of nuclear energy technologies from the United States to that partner country. | ||
| So the executive order asks for 20 new 123 agreements between now and the conclusion of the 120th Congress, which is not a lot of time. | ||
| But I think, again, it's that recognition that the United States really, really needs to be out there. | ||
| And in fact, the United States has been out there and we have signed a number of 123 agreements just over the last couple of years. | ||
| But to really be out there competing against Russia and China, because when a country, whether it's the United States, whether it's Russia, whomever, when we have an agreement with a buyer country, that becomes a relationship between the vendor and the buyer that lasts for 100 years. | ||
| And so if Russia or China gets in on the ground floor and gets their own agreements with potential buyer countries, that means that those markets are essentially closed to the United States for the next 100 years. | ||
| Let's talk with Kelly in Pennsylvania Line for Democrats. | ||
| Hi, Kelly. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, yes, good morning. | |
| I'll tell you, I lived through Three Mile Island. | ||
| We almost had a meltdown, and that was one of the scariest things in my lifetime. | ||
| And even to this day, they did shut it down, PMI, but apparently Microsoft, I believe, is they bought it and they're going to reopen it now because of the AI data centers. | ||
| They need power. | ||
| And I live within like a 25-mile radius, and I really didn't want them to reopen, you know, these, especially the one that, you know, almost mellowed down that time, which a lot of, they could not escape, but believe me, Pennsylvania and this area, everybody dies from cancer. | ||
| It's unbelievable. | ||
| We have thyroid cancer, I mean, breast cancer. | ||
| It's terrible. | ||
| And the sad part is, it does not even help Pennsylvania. | ||
| This energy was piped in in New Jersey or wherever. | ||
| Pennsylvania didn't even, I mean, it didn't do anything for us. | ||
| And our price of electricity is so high. | ||
| And I understand that within the next five, 10 years, it's going to be like triple what we're paying now. | ||
| And I just can't understand, you know, we had this in our backyard. | ||
| You would think that this would benefit the people in Pennsylvania where we get nothing from it. | ||
| And yet we're paying all this a lot of money to have electricity. | ||
| It's just something that doesn't make sense, not to mention it's scary. | ||
| I mean, it is really scary living within a 25-mile radius of a nuclear power plant, especially when the enemies know exactly where they are. | ||
| And it's scary. | ||
| I don't like it. | ||
| I wish they weren't reopening it at all. | ||
| But I don't know. | ||
| What's your thought on that? | ||
| So in terms of the reopening of Three Mile Island and the deal between Constellation and Microsoft, again, we're seeing just this increased demand for nuclear power, for nuclear energy to provide electricity as these data centers and tech companies really need increased energy to power their operations. | ||
| I think that, again, we're looking at the existing fleet, which again has had any number of upgrades and security measures. | ||
| And I think as well, when you talk about communities, something that I think about a lot is that in Wyoming, where the Natrium project is cited, which is an advanced next-generation nuclear energy project, there were actually four or five different communities in Wyoming that all competed against each other to get that project, which is now sited in Kemerer, Wyoming. | ||
| And if you look at countries that have experience with nuclear reactors with nuclear power, take a place like Romania that has been operating a Canadian fleet now since the 80s. | ||
| And in Romania, there's actually, I think it's 87% approval rating for nuclear power. | ||
| And so when you have communities that are able to benefit from the energy, and I absolutely agree with you that the energy ought to be also placed in the community for community use, you actually have a greater demand and a greater appreciation for the benefits. | ||
| We have one last call for you. | ||
| It's Steve in Pennsylvania, Line for Independence. | ||
| Hi, Steve. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, hi, good morning, and good morning, Jennifer. | |
| Quick question. | ||
| When did the nuclear power industry solve the problem of spent fuel rods disposing them? | ||
| I heard you say you touched on that they're looking at ways to recycle, which tells me that the problem has not yet been solved. | ||
| And one other comment about putting small nuclear reactors in neighborhoods. | ||
| Who's going to run these things? | ||
| We're going to have private, you know, you're going to have private investors cutting costs, cutting corners, and we'll just have small nuclear explosions across the country. | ||
| Thank you very much, Bud. | ||
| Thank you so much for your question. | ||
| First of all, let me just say that the language of putting reactors in communities, that was not my own language. | ||
| That was from a caller. | ||
| And I don't believe that there should be a reactor on every block in a neighborhood because I agree that that would lead to, I think, a difficult regulatory situation. | ||
| So reactors and nuclear power plants should be well regulated, licensed. | ||
| They should be well protected. | ||
| But to your question about spent fuel, so right now the U.S. nuclear energy industry stores spent fuel in on-site interim storage. | ||
| It is safe. | ||
| It is secure. | ||
| In the United States, we do not have long-term storage yet. | ||
| The law of the land right now is that long-term storage will take place in Yucca Mountain, but for political reasons, again, this is not a technology issue. | ||
| This is a political issue. | ||
| Yucca Mountain has not come to pass. | ||
| And so, and DOE has done a lot of work. | ||
| Department of Energy has done a lot of work on consent-based siting and looking for places and working with communities in which long-term storage can take place. | ||
| And then the recycling, again, that is not intended as the solution to spent fuel, but rather it's intended to make fuel production and fuel usage more economical and more efficient. | ||
| Jennifer Gordon is the Nuclear Energy Policy Initiative Director at the Atlantic Council. | ||
| You can find her work online at AtlanticCouncil.org. | ||
| Jennifer, thank you so much for being with us this morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you so much. | |
| We are wrapping up today's Washington Journal with more of your calls. | ||
| And in open form, you can start calling in. | ||
| Now, here are the lines. | ||
| Democrats 202-748-8000. | ||
| Republicans 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Independents 202-748-8002. | ||
| This is the segment where there's a public policy issue you'd like to talk about. | ||
| Go ahead and give us a call. | ||
| One news note or issue that you may want to discuss was from yesterday, this headline from the Associated Press. | ||
| Trump tells U.S. steel workers he's going to double tariffs on foreign steel up to 50%. | ||
| The article says that President Donald Trump on Friday told Pennsylvania steel workers he's doubling the tariffs on steel imports to 50% to protect their industry, a dramatic increase that could further push up prices for metal use to make housing, autos, and other goods. | ||
| In a post later on his Truth Social platform, he added that the aluminum tariff would also be doubled to 50%. | ||
| He said both tariff hikes would go into effect Wednesday. | ||
| This is when Trump spoke at U.S. Steel's Mond Valley Works Irvine plant in suburban Pittsburgh, where he also discussed details to come deal under which Japan's Nippon Steel will invest in the iconic American steel maker. | ||
| Here are remarks from yesterday at that event. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Today I have a major announcement. | |
| And are you ready to hear this? | ||
| This is on behalf of Scott, Secretary of Treasury, Howard Lutnick, Secretary of Commerce, and all of the great geniuses and people we have working. | ||
| And they are smart, but I don't think you'd be a good steel worker, Scott. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm sorry. | |
| I'm going to have to put a little more muscle content into that guy. | ||
| But he's great. | ||
| He's great at what he does. | ||
| We are going to be imposing a 25% increase. | ||
| We're going to bring it from 25% to 50%, the tariffs on steel into the United States of America, which will even further secure the steel industry in the United States. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Nobody's going to get around that. | |
| So we're bringing it up from 25%. | ||
| We're doubling it to 50%. | ||
| And that's a loophole. | ||
| And by the way, I have to tell you, I believe that this group of people that just made these investments right now are very happy because that means that nobody's going to be able to steal your industry. | ||
| It's at 25%, they can sort of get over that fence. | ||
|
unidentified
|
At 50%, they can no longer get over the fence. | |
| So congratulations to everybody and to you for making a great deal. | ||
| You just made a better deal, right? | ||
| I said to the group, would you rather have a 40% increase? | ||
| Because I was thinking about 40 when I came. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I said, would you rather have a 40% or a 50%? | |
| They said, we'll take 50%. | ||
| I said, I had a feeling you were going to say that. | ||
| So congratulations. | ||
| Also, congratulations to Dave because you got this whole thing started. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Congratulations. | |
| Great job. | ||
| Great job. | ||
| Washington Journal continues. | ||
| Welcome back for the rest of today's program. | ||
| We are in open form. | ||
| We will start with David in French Lake, Indiana, line for Republicans. | ||
| Hi, David. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning. | |
| I just was going to comment on your beginning story today regarding Elon Musk. | ||
| You know, it's kind of a tabloid journalism type style here recently with C-SPAN. | ||
| You know, all the Democrats were hating on him, but, you know, he has Asperger's syndrome, which is part of the spectrum. | ||
| Perhaps some of that medication is helping him to live his life. | ||
| You know, my God, Hunter Biden was just absolutely forgiven for his drug addiction and things. | ||
| It's just a hypocrisy. | ||
| You know, every time you show a congressional hearing, you focus on the Democrats attacking the individual in the Trump administration, but never show the Republicans asking their questions that might inform the entire viewer body. | ||
| So that's my comments for today, and thank you very much. | ||
| That's David in Indiana. | ||
| Let's talk with Charles, Birmingham, Alabama, line for Republicans. | ||
| Hi, Charles. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, how are you doing? | |
| Doing well. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Absolutely not. | |
| Where does most of our enriched uranium come from? | ||
| You know what, Charles? | ||
| I do not know, and our nuclear expert has left. | ||
| That might be something that you're going to have to use the Google for. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Well, I appreciate it. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| This is a story from Politico. | ||
| The headline says, Well, we are all going to die. | ||
| Joni Ernst spars with Town Hall crowd over Medicaid. | ||
| The article says that Iowa Senator Joni Ernst is the latest Republican to face an angry crowd of constituents, sparring with town hall attendees over President Donald Trump's signature piece of legislation. | ||
| It says, Constituents on Friday gathered at Butler County, Iowa to hear Ernst defend the Trump administration's work, including efforts by the Department of Government Efficiency and Republicans' congressional priorities. | ||
| It says, when a constituent asked Ernst question Ernst about the reconciliation bill, things became heated. | ||
| And we have a clip from that event. | ||
| Here it is. | ||
| When we are talking about the corrections in this reconciliation bill, again, it's corrections of overpayments and people that have not been eligible for these programs by law as it is currently written. | ||
| So when you are arguing, when you are arguing about illegals that are receiving Medicaid benefits, 1.4 million, 1.4, they are not eligible. | ||
| So they will be coming off. | ||
| So people are not, well, we all are going to die. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So for heaven's sakes. | |
| For heaven's sakes, folks. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| No, but what you don't want to do is listen to me when I say that we are going to focus on those that are most vulnerable. | ||
| Those that meet the eligibility requirements for Medicaid, we will protect. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We will protect them. | |
| You can watch that town hall as well as others. | ||
| C-SPAN covered this week on our homepage. | ||
| That is c-span.org. | ||
| Back to your calls. | ||
| Carol in Palm Springs, California, Line for Independence. | ||
| Hi, Carol. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| I must comment on this Star Wars dome. | ||
| First of all, is it going to be really metal? | ||
| If it is, it's going to collapse. | ||
| What are they going to do? | ||
| Have parachute material floating up there somewhere. | ||
| If airplanes, if foreign countries can't get in, how are we going to get out? | ||
| There was a writer in the 1960s who had something like this in one of the books. | ||
| And personally, nobody has thought anything through. | ||
| And I think this is totally, totally hilarious. | ||
| Bye. | ||
| That's Carol in Palm Springs, California. | ||
| Shirley in Bloomington, Illinois, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Shirley. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I would like to bring up a subject about the SNAP program and how much they're making an injustice play on the SNAP program. | ||
| I'm 82 years old and I'm poverty level. | ||
| And the SNAP program has come down 80% of our SNAP program as of May. | ||
| And instead of making what I made before, now I'm down to $66 a month. | ||
| Now, who could live on $66 a month? | ||
| This is a real injustice to the SNAP program for the senior citizens that are low income, and that's all they're giving us. | ||
| And I think it's awful, just awful what they're doing to us just to try to budget the government. | ||
| That's awful. | ||
| And that's all I really have to say. | ||
| They've got to bring it back up to where it was, or at least more than $66. | ||
| That's just, it's just awful. | ||
| I don't know what we're going to do. | ||
| That was Shirley in Illinois. | ||
| Adam in Virginia Beach, Virginia, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Adam. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| So I just want to talk for a moment about President Trump talking to the steel workers. | ||
| And instead of speaking about how that would really help the steel industry, how the extra tariffs would help the steel industry Do better. | ||
| It was mostly congratulatory of the men that made the deal. | ||
| And I just kind of want to highlight the fact that as a politician, any politician, regardless of what side they're on, should be talking about how this is going to help that industry. | ||
| That's all I have. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| That was Adam in Virginia. | ||
| Joe in Pennsylvania, line for Democrats. | ||
| Hi, Joe. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| I just want to say that I Googled all the how many people were working for the United Steelworkers in America. | ||
| I'm giving you my source. | ||
| And I also Googled how many are in Canada. | ||
| Actually, Canada had more than the United States at the United Steelworkers. | ||
| We actually had a leader from Canada at the Pittsburgh headquarters of the steelworkers. | ||
| I'd just like to see Canada be part of these 50% increases to prevent the foreign steels so that we can really expand both industries in both countries at the same time because they were also themselves to become that way. | ||
| And Prince Charles pointed this out in his speech recently. | ||
| He thinks there's going to be trouble with Canada because a lot of their imports to the United States do give them a benefit. | ||
| But I think we can work together as partners. | ||
| We always have since 1812. | ||
| And I'd like to see more of that happening so that we can expand the industry. | ||
| And it's really against the worldwide steel industry, which is now based in China and so forth. | ||
| So we can build our own ships. | ||
| We can build more cars. | ||
| But these new plants are all going to be robotic, too. | ||
| Not a lot of employees. | ||
| At the same time, we need all these plants in the future. | ||
| So I'm hoping to see more with Mexico, United States, and Canada combined. | ||
| That's all I'm saying. | ||
| And I come from a town that used to have 20,000 workers at one time that totally disappeared in the 1980s. | ||
| So that's all. | ||
| And that was Joe in Pennsylvania. | ||
| Charlie in New York, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Charlie. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, good morning. | |
| Love C-SPAN. | ||
| Thank you for all that you folks do. | ||
| I just have three very quick comments. | ||
| A caller was just talking about Elon's drug use versus Hunter's drug use. | ||
| I see the difference there is that Elon was using a jeweled chainsaw to decimate our government while he was on drugs, supposedly. | ||
| And I have nothing against drugs, but I think that's the difference between the two men's problems with controlled substances. | ||
| The other point I want to make is the cut to food stamps and SNAP and child care and U.S. aid is just disgusting to me, especially when it comes through people like Mike Johnson, who claims to be a Christian, and J.B. Vance, who claims to be Catholic. | ||
| Any reading of Jesus' words shows that we take care of the poor and love our enemies, not try to destroy them and starve them. | ||
| And for those men to do these things is against all values of, I believe, the United States and any person who is a Christian. | ||
| My last point very quickly is so many of the people that I work with that are Trump supporters never watch Mr. Trump actually speak in long form. | ||
| C-SPAN showed his speech at the steel workers yesterday. | ||
| And if you listen to this whole thing, you can just see how incompetent and stupid and out of control. | ||
| Sorry for the word stupid, the man is. | ||
| And that's all I have to say. | ||
| I thank you very much for your coverage. | ||
| That was Charlie in New York. | ||
| This headline in the New York Times, Supreme Court allows Trump administration for now to end Biden-era migrant program. | ||
| It says that the Supreme Court on Friday allowed the Trump administration, for now, to revoke a Biden-era humanitarian program intended to give temporary residency to more than 500,000 immigrants from countries facing war and political turmoil. | ||
| The court's order was unsigned and provided no reasoning, which is typical when the justices rule on emergency applications. | ||
| It granted a request that will allow the administration to act even as an appeal court considers the case and potentially the justices review it again. | ||
| The ruling comes as the White House is stepping up pressure on the Department of Homeland Security to increase the pace of deportations and could speed efforts to remove thousands of migrants living legally in the United States. | ||
| Back to your calls. | ||
| We'll talk with Scott in Illinois, Line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Scott. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you for taking my call. | |
| Good morning, American fellow patriots. | ||
| I want to touch on something here. | ||
| And I know a lot of old Vietnam guys, not all of them, but some are going to agree with me. | ||
| I'm going on the honor flight. | ||
| I will be arriving in D.C. on Tuesday morning. | ||
| I hope the weather's great. | ||
| And it is an honor to be. | ||
| They've been after me for 10 years, and I'm finally going. | ||
| And I didn't really want to go, but then all the girls in town, they're pointing at me. | ||
| You will go. | ||
| We will drag you. | ||
| So I'll see you in D.C. Tuesday. | ||
| But anyways, the country has been indoctrinated with saying thank you for your service. | ||
| And that's okay with me. | ||
| You can name a post office off an Iraqi kid. | ||
| You can name a casualty. | ||
| You can name a street after Afghanistan kid. | ||
| That's okay. | ||
| But I want to give a little history. | ||
| When we came back from Vietnam, and we were 20 years old and in battle, we couldn't even get a beer in California. | ||
| You could drink on base, but you couldn't go to a girly bar. | ||
| I was spat upon in my dress blues. | ||
| I was Air Force for four years. | ||
| I worked SAC headquarters. | ||
| I got spat upon and called baby killer. | ||
| Now, it's a little hollow for us Vietnam guys, and you wonder why they're always advertising we're committing suicide. | ||
| They ask us all the time, are you thinking mentally challenged? | ||
| And we all say, oh, I do. | ||
| I say, yeah, every day. | ||
| But you have to be a strong individual. | ||
| I've got five great grandbabies, and that's my life now. | ||
| And how I'll die with my kids. | ||
| But anyways, I just want to say thank the country. | ||
| It's okay that they say that, but I want people to really mean it when they say it. | ||
| So thank you again, America, and I'll see you at the honor flight at the unknown soldier in Arlington. | ||
| I will pay my respects to my dead buddies on the wall. | ||
| And I got to go. | ||
| Thank you, America. | ||
| Scott, can you hang on for just a second? | ||
| I know it's getting tough, but we appreciate your service. | ||
| And for those who may not know, tell us what honor flight is. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The honor flight, I think every state, I'm not sure, they supply a plane, usually a charter flight, for older veterans. | |
| I realize the World War II guys are almost gone. | ||
| So my dad was in Korea, a lot of Korean guys, mostly Vietnam guys. | ||
| I don't know if the younger soldiers are going yet, but it's a free flight for us, sponsored by donations through the community and the state. | ||
| And then you have to have a sponsor. | ||
| Well, my wife's too old and crippled. | ||
| She can't go with me. | ||
| So this woman called me from near St. Louis, and she had been on two honor flights before. | ||
| And I says, well, she's going to meet me at the airport in Springfield, Illinois. | ||
| And I can't afford a motel for the night before. | ||
| So I'm going to leave at midnight to get out there. | ||
| So this, and it's just for the veterans that want to go. | ||
| And I've talked to a lot of people, and I says, you know, I go to sleep at two in the afternoon, and I take naps. | ||
| And this one girl that I talked to, her grandfather went, and it was a once-in-a-lifetime thing. | ||
| And he says you wouldn't believe Scott, but a lot of us old guys take naps. | ||
| So I'm a little excited that maybe I could get a nap because I go to bed early. | ||
| But it's for the veterans. | ||
| And I'm hoping these younger guys can go. | ||
| And I got one last thing to say. | ||
| I go to a VA hospital, and there was a 22-year-old kid from Afghanistan missing his legs. | ||
| And I was talking to him about what happened. | ||
| And in Vietnam, we had bouncing daddies, but now they got truck bombs they can blow up. | ||
| This kid was 22. | ||
| Doctor come out. | ||
| He goes, Scott, you're next. | ||
| I said, Doc, take this kid. | ||
| He goes, Scott, being a boss, you're next. | ||
| I go, Doc, the kid's 22. | ||
| He's going to be like this the rest of his life. | ||
| He took him, and the five guys behind me, they clapped. | ||
| And I said, that's for him. | ||
| That ain't for me because I can bullcrap with you guys. | ||
| But just for him, for 22, he's got to live his life like that. | ||
| So God bless it. | ||
| And this new thing they're doing, Tunnel for Towers. | ||
| If you can afford it, just send the 19 to the guys. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| Thank you so much again. | ||
| Well, safe travel, Scott. | ||
| Let's talk with Rodney in Louisiana, line for Democrats. | ||
| Hi, Rodney. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Hi, Rodney. | ||
| Go ahead, you're on. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Yeah, I have a comment. | ||
| It's about the military care parade that Trump's supposed to be giving. | ||
| My question is, what is the parade going to benefit any poor people in this country? | ||
| Hello? | ||
| I'm here. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Did you hear me? | |
| I did, Rodney. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Okay, my comment is on the parade that Trump's supposed to be getting for the military. | ||
| What is the parade going to benefit any of the poor people in this country? | ||
| That's my statement. | ||
| That was Rodney in Louisiana. | ||
| Patricia in New Jersey, line for Republicans. | ||
| Hi, Patricia. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, I was a Republican. | |
| I am no longer. | ||
| It's not the party that I knew. | ||
| I don't even think of them as Republicans anymore. | ||
| I think of them as a fascist group. | ||
| And I'm just very saddened by everything going on in this country and cannot stop thinking about the town hall with Joni Ernst and her basically gaslighting her constituents and indicating that we're all going to die anyway. | ||
| It kind of shows the mindset that the government and the people that are supposedly acting on our behalf, which I don't think they are anymore, don't care about their constituents, don't care that our country is mistreating people and letting our country fall apart and become fascist. | ||
| I don't understand it. | ||
| I would love to know what can be done when I feel like so many people who used to be Republicans like me have the same feeling. | ||
| How do we stop what is going on? | ||
| Where are the controls? | ||
| Even the Supreme Court is out of, I think, step and doesn't really react correctly on a lot of rulings. | ||
| Also, Trump isn't listening to any of the rulings that the Supreme Court actually are correct on. | ||
| So I guess my question is, what can be done to get these people out of office before the four years, before our country is destroyed? | ||
| Patricia, when did you leave the Republican Party? | ||
| And what was, I guess, kind of the final straw for you? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I left probably after Trump did the tried to overthrow the last election and the way that he handled COVID. | |
| I realized that he wasn't, you know, I thought maybe he would make things better because he would have a different approach. | ||
| And he didn't, he just, he shows who he is every time he speaks, how he treats people, and the fact that, you know, as a public servant and a political person, you're supposed to have a thicker skin. | ||
| And the fact that he can't handle criticism, doesn't tell the truth. | ||
| And honestly, still, I'm still reeling over the fact that he was even allowed to run, particularly with 34 federal indictments. | ||
| I just, I need my America, and I believe that if somebody is not hurting me and they are doing their own thing, you know, whether they're LGBTQ, they come from Venezuela. | ||
| As long as people are working, doing their job, and not hurting anybody, we're supposed to be the country that protects people and looks out for the people who are in need. | ||
| And we're not anymore. | ||
| We're embarrassing. | ||
| I never wanted to leave my country until now. | ||
| I'm embarrassed, humiliated, and disgusted by what I see, what the Republican, I'm going to put that in quotes, party has become. | ||
| It's horrible. | ||
| And I think out of this, ultimately, if we survive, there's going to be a whole new party that comes about because I think ultimately the MAGA Republicans are going to have to be gotten rid of thoroughly. | ||
| That was Patricia in New Jersey. | ||
| This was in this morning's New York Times. | ||
| It's an obituary, the headline, Harrison Ruffin Tyler, 96, last surviving grandson of the 10th president. | ||
| It says that Harrison Ruffin Tyler, the last surviving grandson of John Tyler, the 10th president of the United States, who was born just after George Washington became president 236 years ago and who served in the White House from 1841 to 1845, died Sunday at his home in Richmond, Virginia. | ||
| He was 96. | ||
| It says that Mr. Tyler suffered a series of small strokes starting in 2012 and was later diagnosed with dementia. | ||
| In recent years, his son, William Brooke Knight Tyler, oversaw the James River plantation that had been his family's ancestral home. | ||
| Says Mr. Tyler, a retired businessman, and his older brother, Lion Gardner Tyler Jr., who died at age 95 in 2020, were sons of Lion Gardner Sr. | ||
| Tyler Sr., who lived from 1853 to 1935, a longtime president of the College of Williams, William and Mary, says their grandfather was the U.S. president who pushed for the annexation of Texas as American expansion moved west. | ||
| But he is perhaps best known for the Whig Party's memorable 1840 presidential campaign slogan, Tippy Canoe and Tyler II. | ||
| A remarkable instance of successive longevity and late-in-life paternities, the Tyler family produced a genealogical marvel, if not singularity, three generations that spanned nearly the entire history of the American experience. | ||
| Just a few minutes left in this morning's program. | ||
| Let's talk with Jeff in Riverside, California, line for independence. | ||
| Hi, Jeff. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| Hi, this is Jeff. | ||
| Listen, first thing I want to say: hurrah to all Vietnam vets. | ||
| That previous caller is straight on. | ||
| That's the biggest disgrace this country ever did in the modern times. | ||
| My main concern with our country is I'm 93, and I'm worried about that my great-grandchildren will not live in the country that I grew up in. | ||
| One of the big things everybody talks about, Democrat, Republican, Independent, non-voters, is the deficit. | ||
| The truth of the matter is, the higher the income tax on the top bracket, the higher the GDP growth. | ||
| The maximum rate of GDP growth in this country occurred right after World War II when the top income providers were paying 90%. | ||
| Right now, we're paying 34%. | ||
| The deficit under this administration is going another $3 trillion. | ||
| And this first administration went up $2 million, $2 trillion. | ||
| And that is a disgrace. | ||
| It's a disgrace to put this country in debt on three different occasions in modern times. | ||
| The country was almost in default because they wouldn't pass a budget. | ||
| And now the budget is increasing rather than decreasing. | ||
| The deficit is going up rather than decreasing. | ||
| And as the one woman said who abandoned the Republican Party, the only way we can get is to vote. | ||
| But the problem is they're even taking away the ability to vote. | ||
| So this country, I'm concerned what's going to happen unless we figure out a way to get this country moving by electing and finding people to run for office and take the heat. | ||
| So God bless the United States. | ||
| God bless Vietnam vets. | ||
| I was a Korean vet, and I did okay because of the GI Bill. | ||
| So thank you for listening and God bless this United States and all our servicemen all over the world. | ||
| Thank you for listening. | ||
| That was Jeff in California and our last call for today's Washington Journal. | ||
| We'll be back tomorrow morning at 7 a.m. Eastern and 4 a.m. Pacific with another program. | ||
| Until then, enjoy your Saturday. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Today, join C-SPAN for an all-day marathon of 2025 commencement speeches from across the country. | |
| From leaders in politics, sports, journalism, and entertainment. | ||
| Sharing inspiring messages, personal reflections, and hard-earned wisdom for graduates. | ||
| The overall umbrella of what I'm going to say today is that all things are possible because I am living proof. | ||
| Speakers include award-winning journalist and anchor Scott Pelley, actor and activist Jane Fonda, Vice President JD Vance, Homeland Security Secretary Christy Noam, Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell, singer and musician Usher, rapper, producer, and entrepreneur Snoop Doc, Baseball Hall of Famer Derek Jeter, and WNBA star John Quell Jones. | ||
| The commencement speeches marathon begins today at 10 a.m. Eastern through Sunday at 7 a.m. Eastern on C-SPAN. | ||
| Or watch anytime online at c-SPAN.org. | ||
| Lawmakers return to Capitol Hill from their state and district work periods for a busy week of legislative business and votes. | ||
| The Senate returns Monday at 3 p.m. Eastern. | ||
| Senators are expected to vote throughout the week on more of President Trump's nominations, including Jared Isaacman to be the next NASA administrator. | ||
| Work will also continue on legislation regulating payment stable coins in the cryptocurrency market. | ||
| The House gavels in on Tuesday. | ||
| Later in the week, members will consider legislation to update and reauthorize opioid abuse treatment and prevention programs first signed into law by President Trump during his first term in 2018. | ||
| Also, a bill to remove and relocate small business administration offices from sanctuary cities. | ||
| Watch live coverage of the House on C-SPAN, the Senate on C-SPAN 2, and all of our live congressional coverage is available on our free video app, C-SPAN Now, and on our website, c-span.org. | ||
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| Next, CBS News 60 Minutes correspondent Scott Pelley, delivering the commencement speech to the 2025 class at Wake Forest University. | ||
| In his remarks, he reminds graduates to use their voices to bring the change that they want to In the world. |