| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
|
unidentified
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Kicks off. | |
| That's followed by author Jerry Dunlevy on new efforts by the Trump administration to investigate the 2021 U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan. | ||
| And later, Fahad Nazair, spokesperson for the Embassy of Saudi Arabia in Washington, talks about the Israel-Hamas war and the state of U.S.-Saudi Arabian relations following President Trump's Middle East tour. | ||
| Washington Journal is next. | ||
| Join the conversation. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
| It's Saturday, May 24th. | ||
| For our first hour, we'd like to hear your top news story of the week. | ||
| Here are some items you can choose from. | ||
| President Trump confronted South Africa's leader in the Oval Office. | ||
| The president called for 50% tariffs on the EU and threatened Apple with 25% import taxes if their iPhones aren't made in the U.S. | ||
| The House passed the tax and spending mega bill. | ||
| There was the fatal shooting outside the D.C. Jewish Museum, former President Biden's cancer diagnosis, and the release of the book about his mental and physical decline. | ||
| That all happened this week. | ||
| What have you been watching most closely? | ||
| Here's how to reach us. | ||
| Democrats, 202-748-8000. | ||
| Republicans, 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Independents, 202-748-8002. | ||
| You can send a text to 202-748-8003, include your first name in your city-state, and you can post your comments on social media. | ||
| Facebook.com/slash C-SPAN and X at C-SPANWJ. | ||
| Welcome to today's Washington Journal. | ||
| We're glad you're with us. | ||
| Let's start with Fox News with the headline, Trump threatens 25% tariff on iPhones, 50% tariff on EU goods amid trade tensions. | ||
| It said that the president on Friday threatened to impose fresh tariffs on both Apple and the EU, saying that the iPhone manufacturer and the trading bloc have not heeded to his previous demands. | ||
| It says in two quickfire posts on Truth Social, Trump warned he would slap a 25% tariff on imported iPhones if Apple refuses to make the smartphones in the U.S. | ||
| The move comes after Trump met with Apple CEO Tim Cook at the White House on Wednesday. | ||
| Trump also threatened the EU with a straight 50% tariff, writing that the bloc has been very difficult to deal with in trade negotiations. | ||
| Here's a quote from President Trump. | ||
| I have long informed Tim Cook of Apple that I expect their iPhones that will be sold in the United States of America will be manufactured and built in the United States, not India or anyplace else. | ||
| Let's take a look at President Trump with reporters in the Oval Office talking about this topic. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You are dealmaker, Deal Milk Ray. | |
| What are you hoping to achieve with a 50% tariff on the EU? | ||
| Well, I think this is because there is no tariff because what they'll do is they'll send their companies into the U.S. and build their plant. | ||
| You know, we have, I guess, over $12 trillion practically committed. | ||
| You look at other presidents that haven't had a trillion dollars for a year, for two years, for three years. | ||
| We have numbers. | ||
| Nobody's ever seen numbers like we have. | ||
| And if they build their plant here, then they have no tariff at all. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Are you looking for a deal in nine days? | |
| Will you be able to do that, sir? | ||
| I'm not looking for a deal. | ||
| I mean, we've set the deal. | ||
| It's at 50%. | ||
| But again, there is no tariff if they build their plant here. | ||
| Now, if somebody comes in and wants to build a plant here, I can talk to them about a little bit of a delay. | ||
| But while they're building their plant, which is something I think that would be appropriate, maybe, will determine. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is there anything the EU can do? | |
| I don't know. | ||
| We're going to see what happens. | ||
| But right now, it's going on on June 1st. | ||
| And that's the way it is. | ||
| No, they haven't treated us properly. | ||
| They haven't treated our country properly. | ||
| They banded together to take advantage of us. | ||
| And the people behind me know because they had some of that with their industry. | ||
| But generally, you know, we signed a great deal with the United Kingdom. | ||
| We have numerous other deals that are ready to be signed. | ||
| We've signed a deal with China. | ||
| We have some really amazing deals. | ||
| But the European Union, I mean, the sole purpose was really to not to hurt us, but to take advantage of us. | ||
| And we're not going to be taking advantage of it. | ||
| And some reactions from Democratic lawmakers on ex-Senator Jackie Rosen says this. | ||
| Trump is threatening another 50% national sales tax. | ||
| This will raise prices for Americans. | ||
| Enough with these on-again, off-again tariffs. | ||
| I voted against Trump's tax hikes twice. | ||
| The tariffs must be repealed. | ||
| Representative Don Beyer of Virginia says: after House Republicans voted to cut taxes on the wealthy, the president is back to threatening arbitrary tax hikes on American consumers. | ||
| His volatile, incoherent, and childish approach to trade policy will soon have us paying higher tariffs on goods from our closest partners. | ||
| And Representative Linda Sanchez of California, today's tariff tantrum targeting the EU and Apple is just the latest example of why Trump can't be trusted with unchecked power. | ||
| Republicans must stop enabling his chaos and pass my bill to end these reckless tariffs and reclaim our constitutional authority over trade. | ||
| That is one thing that happened this week. | ||
| We're wondering what your top news story of the week is. | ||
| The numbers are on your screen. | ||
| Democrats can call us on 202748-8000. | ||
| Republicans 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Independents 202748-8002. | ||
| We'll start with the line for independence in Independence, Missouri. | ||
| Redmond, you're on. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I would just like to say it is despicable that the leader of this country would bring another leader here to ridicule him of supporting genocide when in this country has done the very same thing to the Native American population, | ||
| which has been reduced to being only 1% now, in as much as describing people by being Asian American, African American, Hispanic American, Middle Eastern American, and Native American. | ||
| So that leaves Trump being a European American. | ||
| We are now having a pale-skinned leader who isn't even comfortable in his own skin that now has become humpback, leatherface, who is a racist. | ||
| In as much as he plans on returning Columbus Day back for all those Asians, Africans, Hispanics, teach your children that Columbus invaded America. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, Redmond, let's take a look at that exchange between South Africa's president and President Trump in the Oval Office. | ||
| Here's a portion of that. | ||
| No, no, when you look at the videos, I mean, how does it get worse? | ||
| And these are people that are officials, and they're saying that kill the white farmer and take their land. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's what I'm saying. | |
| And I have other friends in South Africa. | ||
| I have people that left. | ||
| One in particular that says it's you can't go there. | ||
| He said they want to take your land, they take your land, and they kill you. | ||
| It's okay, and they say it's okay to do it. | ||
| Now, we're going to talk about it. | ||
| But this is a tremendous look, this is story recently. | ||
| These are all people that recently got killed. | ||
| And I don't know how it can get any worse. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is it? | |
| And you know, the man that you saw, the men that you saw, the people that you saw that movie, those are officials, those are people that were in office. | ||
| They had one march, they had a dance in your parliament, whatever you may call it, legislature. | ||
| Let me clarify that. | ||
| Let me clarify that because what you saw, the speeches that were being made, one, that is not government policy. | ||
| We have a multi-party democracy in South Africa that allows people to express themselves, political parties to adhere to various policies. | ||
| And in many cases, or in some cases, those policies do not go along with government policy. | ||
| Our government policy is completely, completely against what he was saying, even in the parliament. | ||
| And they're a small minority party, which is allowed to exist in terms of our constitution. | ||
| But you do allow them to take land. | ||
| No, no, no, no, you do allow them to take land. | ||
| Nobody can take that. | ||
| And then when they take the land, they kill the white farmer. | ||
| And when they kill the white farmer, nothing happens to them. | ||
| No. | ||
| There is quite nothing happens. | ||
| There is criminality in our country. | ||
| People who do get killed, unfortunately, through criminal activity, are not only white. | ||
| Majority of them are black. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And we have now the farmers are not black. | |
| I don't say that's good or bad, but the farmers are not black. | ||
| And a couple of points there that was brought up in that exchange. | ||
| The BBC did some fact-checking with the headline: fact-checking Trump's Oval Office Confrontation with Ramaphosa. | ||
| Has there been a genocide of white farmers? | ||
| So this is the, you heard the president make that allegation. | ||
| It says this, the country, South Africa, has one of the highest murder rates in the world. | ||
| There were 26,232 murders last year. | ||
| Of these, 44 were killings of people within the farming community, and of those, eight were farmers. | ||
| So it says these figures are not broken down by race in any public stats release that we've been able to locate, but they clearly don't provide evidence of the claims of, quote, white genocide made repeatedly by Trump. | ||
| It said in February, a South African judge dismissed the idea of a genocide as clearly imagined and not real. | ||
| You can read that at the BBC if you'd like more information on that. | ||
| PolitiFact also did fact-checking on that claim. | ||
| Here is Melvin, Richmond, Virginia, Democrat. | ||
| Good morning, Melvin. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, Mimi. | |
| Thank you for taking my call. | ||
| How are you today? | ||
| Good. | ||
| What's on your mind this morning, Melvin? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mimi, mine, of course, I think we had this week was the so-called big, beautiful bill, which, of course, is Trump's all-encompass bill that deals mostly with the economy. | |
| And to go along with that, we had Moody who downgraded America's bond rating from a AAA to a double A1. | ||
| Now, this guy, President Chump, that's what the other guy called him, too. | ||
| I like that, doesn't know what he's doing in regards to the economy. | ||
| You know, he claims he always just throws out these big numbers as to how everything is going well. | ||
| And if anything is wrong, it's Biden's fault. | ||
| But this bill is going to cut food stamps. | ||
| It's going to cut Medicaid, I believe, close to $800 billion, if I have that number correct, and just do a lot of other things that's going to affect poor people in addition to giving $4 trillion of continuing tax cuts to the rich. | ||
| And, you know, because he doesn't really care about this country and about the economy, this thing is going to just send us not into recession, but I believe into depression. | ||
| So, you know, obviously day one, and of course, Trump gets to do what he will, what he wants, you know, because nobody's going to stop him. | ||
| We can't stop him. | ||
| They have the House and the Senate, of course, and that he has a stranglehold even over Republicans in the House and the Senate where they'll talk about, oh, I'm not going to do this. | ||
| I'm not going to pass this bill. | ||
| But Republicans always cave in, you know, in the end. | ||
| And it's just going to be a sad time for America, including a lot of his constituents, you know. | ||
| All right, Melvin. | ||
| Well, Politico has this. | ||
| Senate GOP preps for one big, beautiful rewrite. | ||
| It says just hours after House passage, senators are already talking about big changes. | ||
| And of course, you can watch that on C-SPAN 2, the Senate floor, whenever they're in session, which they are not since it's a Saturday morning. | ||
| But this is Raymond in Oxford, Michigan, Republican. | ||
| Good morning, Raymond. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, Mimi, what's going on, girlfriend? | |
| Not a lot. | ||
| Just at work. | ||
| What are you thinking about for the top story? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Every day I'm hustling. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, last time I called, I had a complaint about the CCP and TikTok. | ||
| Well, now I have American problems. | ||
| Number one, Facebook is discriminating against people with community standards. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That needs to stop. | |
| Number two, now Starbucks is discriminating against their own customers. | ||
| They have a list of rules that don't make sense. | ||
| And I had my $2,000 laptop playing a little bit of biggie songs, and I got called three sheriffs. | ||
|
unidentified
|
They call me Scruff McGruff and trying to take a bite out of crime. | |
| What's going on in this country, Mimi? | ||
| What's happening at Starbucks? | ||
| What kind of rules are you talking about? | ||
| Oh, they have like community standards, you know, like Facebook, because there's too many homeless people living there. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But, you know, the real homeless people in this country live at McDonald's. | |
| They're a little confused. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Okay, got it. | ||
| Solomon in Long Island City, New York, Independent Line. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| How are you doing today, ma'am? | ||
| Good. | ||
| Well, first, I'd like to give my condolences to President Biden with his cancer diagnosis here. | ||
| I myself experience degenerative bone disorder and a lot of other disorders that medical marijuana would be a prime prime candidate for that. | ||
| But this is something which I not outside of the question and my condolences for him in recovery. | ||
| I am actually from Dayton, Ohio, where the biggest opiate crisis known to mankind actually has just surpassed our area there in Montgomery County, Ohio. | ||
| And for pain, for myself, I'm stuck with just taking aspirins and other pharmaceuticals, just medicines that are available. | ||
| But wouldn't you think that would be smart somehow? | ||
| Speaking, Andev, with the cancer diagnoses and the other diagnoses of medical marijuana, how long would it take for our insurance companies to insure in prescription plans and other PPO plans the marijuana itself to its patients instead of coming out of the pocket? | ||
| Because it is, for myself, it would be I have seven or eight bone and tissue disorders, and that is the number one recommended medicine that they recommend, which would be pot. | ||
| So have you been taking it? | ||
| Is your argument that it should be covered by insurance? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, yes, that it should be covered by insurance. | |
| And has it been helping you? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, when the testing came across, yes, but do I use it? | |
| No, I do not, but because I can't get it through the insurance, you would go broke using it. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Because it costs hundreds of dollars. | ||
| So you would go broke using it. | ||
| You use it in small increments, but you would go broke using it for medical purposes. | ||
| Got it, Solman. | ||
| This is Elizabeth Randallstown, Maryland, Democrat. | ||
| Good morning, Elizabeth. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| How are you? | ||
| Good. | ||
| I just want to talk about the bill that passed the House. | ||
| I just heard you say that there are going to be changes in the Senate, but I hope they're good changes, but I doubt it because it's a Republican-led Senate. | ||
| I'm a disabled senior living in Maryland. | ||
| I depend on Medicaid, food stamps, Medicare, and Social Security to live. | ||
| And the custom food stamps and the custom Medicaid are going to destroy my life. | ||
| It's going to destroy the lives of all low-income Americans, not just low-income, some middle-income two people who depend on Medicaid and food stamps. | ||
| Why is Trump cutting them? | ||
| I don't understand why the Republicans are cutting them. | ||
| I guess it's just to give the trillionaires and billionaires more money than TASCAS and the tax rises for the tax cuts for the rich people. | ||
| Children who get school lunches are going to be cut. | ||
| I depend on Medicaid and food stamps. | ||
| Why are they cutting it? | ||
| I don't understand. | ||
| All the Republicans who voted for it, many of the Republicans have constituents who are on Medicaid and food stamps. | ||
| They're going to not get elected. | ||
| I also want to talk about it. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| Sorry. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
| You wanted to talk about something else? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, Israel. | |
| Okay, go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. | |
| They are not just displacing Palestinians, but they're killing the Palestinians. | ||
| They're committing genocide. | ||
| The U.S. is supporting Israel's committing genocide in Palestine with bombs and everything for Detanahu. | ||
| And Biden wanted a ceasefire, but Trump wants to continue supporting Detania's genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza. | ||
| All the health care workers, 300 of the health care workers for one agency have been killed. | ||
| They're killing all the medical people. | ||
| What's going to happen to Patal. | ||
| All right, Elizabeth. | ||
| And Hakeem Jeffries, the minority leader in the House, was on the floor of the House very early Thursday morning criticizing the bill that had just passed. | ||
| Congress, according to James Madison, at its best, would serve as a rival to the executive branch. | ||
| But unfortunately, our House Republican colleagues haven't followed the vision of this Madisonian version of democracy because you have consistently proven to be nothing more than a rubber stamp for Donald Trump's extreme agenda. | ||
| And the American people are paying attention. | ||
| The American people are paying attention. | ||
| So I think that when a story is told of the 119th Congress, when the votes are ultimately cast on that first Tuesday in November next year, that this day may very well turn out to be the day that House Republicans lost control of the United States House of Representatives. | ||
| Because the American people are paying attention. | ||
| They are smarter than you think. | ||
| And they know when they are being hurt. | ||
| They know when their interests are not being served. | ||
| And they know when they have been lied to and deceived. | ||
| You see, they know that Congress was meant to be a separate and co-equal branch of government. | ||
| We don't work for President Trump. | ||
| We don't work for JD Vance. | ||
| We don't work for Elon Musk. | ||
| We work for the American people. | ||
| That's what House Democrats are all about. | ||
| That was Hakeem Jeffries on Thursday morning. | ||
| We're getting your top news story of the week. | ||
| The numbers are on your screen. | ||
| Feel free to call us on the line that best suits you. | ||
| This is Cindy on the Independent line in Austin, Texas. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That story is the big billionaire bill, which is what I'm calling it. | |
| Nothing beautiful about it, but it's all for billionaires. | ||
| So I wish the media would start calling it the big billionaire bill. | ||
| But I do have to say, I love the fact that Trump is raking Tim Cook over the coals. | ||
| This is what's wrong with the two-party system in this country: I mostly vote Democrat, meaning nearly 100% of the time, because they're supposedly for American workers, except for in the 90s when they shipped all our jobs overseas under Clinton, which is why I can't stand the Clintons, can't stand Pelosi, can't stand any of the corporate Democrats. | ||
| But let me just tell you this. | ||
| I do not like Donald Trump, but I like what he's doing on tariffs. | ||
| And this is the problem. | ||
| When the Democrats have power, they do not clean up their own issues. | ||
| They have had a chance to clean up welfare and all of that, but they don't. | ||
| They just let it slide when they're in power. | ||
| Trump, at least, is going against his own party by going against Wall Street, which hates the tariffs. | ||
| I got to give them credit for that. | ||
| And that is the problem. | ||
| When, like I said, the Democrats are in party, they don't do anything about their own issues. | ||
| They let immigration get completely out of control. | ||
| And now it's the number one, it's what got Trump elected. | ||
| These people. | ||
| So, Cindy, I wanted to ask you something. | ||
| This is CNBC that says this, why Trump's iPhone tariff threat might not be enough to bring production to the U.S. because you mentioned Apple in your comments. | ||
| It says analysts said it would probably make more sense for Apple to eat the cost rather than move production stateside. | ||
| What do you think of that? | ||
| That it just won't make sense for them financially to. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You know what? | |
| I listened to CNBC all week long. | ||
| I listened to all their commentators, which are all Wall Street bros mostly. | ||
| And they all said, well, if Trump keeps going after Tim Apple about, I mean, Tim Cook about this for Apple, the iPhone's going to cost $3,000. | ||
| So what? | ||
| It should cost $3,000. | ||
| And I listened to CNBC commentators all day. | ||
| It's very interesting what the Wall Street folks have to say. | ||
| They don't want to say anything bad about Trump, but boy, they sure don't like these tariffs because it hits into their bonus money that they get millions and billions of dollars of each year. | ||
| All right, Cindy, let's talk to John next in Santa Paula, California, Republican. | ||
| Good morning, John. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, Mimi. | |
| I called in in support of President Trump and his tariffs. | ||
| I've been listening to these Democrats talk, and I'm waiting to hear for them to come up with a solution to the deficit. | ||
| They all tear Trump down. | ||
| They all go and call him a liar, this and that, but they have no solution. | ||
| None of them has offered anything that would say we're going to reduce this $36 trillion deficit that the country has. | ||
| None of them, they get up there and they slam Trump, but none of them offers another solution. | ||
| Like that lady from Texas called, so what if Apple costs phones cost $3,000? | ||
| Maybe they should because we don't want to support China anymore. | ||
| We don't want China to have all our American dollars. | ||
| So why not pay more and bring our dollars back home? | ||
| And all the people that call in and talk about the billionaires, well, I wish that all the poor people in the country would pay the same 21% taxes that the corporates pay. | ||
| Then you can talk about billionaires and millionaires. | ||
| All right, John. | ||
| Well, let's hear from President Trump from the Oval Office about the 25% tariff on iPhones that he's proposing. | ||
| This was from yesterday. | ||
| President, just wanted to add Apple. | ||
|
unidentified
|
On Apple, you said this morning that if they don't make their iPhones in the U.S., you're going to hit them with a 25% tariff. | |
| Do you have the power to tariff one single company? | ||
| And why would you want to go to an American company in that way? | ||
| It would be more. | ||
| It would be also Samsung and anybody that makes that product. | ||
| Otherwise, it wouldn't be fair. | ||
| So anybody that makes that product, and that'll start on, I guess, the end of June, it'll come out. | ||
| I think we have that appropriately done by the end of June. | ||
| So if they make that product. | ||
| Now, again, when they build their plant here, there's no tariff. | ||
| So they're going to be building plants here. | ||
| But I had an understanding with Tim that he wouldn't be doing this. | ||
| He said he's going to India to build plants. | ||
| I said, that's okay to go to India, but you're not going to sell into here without tariffs. | ||
| And that's the way it is. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But why would you want to America? | |
| What makes you confident, sir? | ||
| Oh, they can. | ||
| No, they can. | ||
| A lot of it's so computerized now. | ||
| These plants are amazing if you look at them, but they can do that. | ||
| And, you know, actually, as you know, Apple's coming in with $500 billion. | ||
| So are the chip companies. | ||
| All of the chip companies coming in. | ||
| The big is $500 billion, $200 billion, $250 billion they're spending. | ||
| But we're talking about the iPhone now. | ||
| And, you know, the iPhone, if they're going to sell it in America, I want it to be built in the United States. | ||
| They're able to do this. | ||
| I was from yesterday in the Oval Office, and this is Doug, a Democrat in Fairfax, South Dakota. | ||
| Doug, what's your top news story of the week? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Today, Mimi, I'm going to talk about my home state, the one where they spell the capital wrong or spell our state wrong on the Capitol building. | |
| But in the last five years, my property taxes have gone up threefold. | ||
| Then I hear that Christy Noam, our former governor, ran the state credit card up $650,000 during her term as governor. | ||
| In the months of November 24, December 24, and January 25, she ran it up $65,000 in them three months. | ||
| Motels, cars, security, a lot was when she campaigned for King Pumpkinhead with his no clothes. | ||
| All true. | ||
| Google it. | ||
| Christy Noam credit cards. | ||
| A short kill-o-land video comes up, even. | ||
| I hope someone watches her government credit card because she'll run it up too, I'm sure. | ||
| I see she put out a commercial for immigrants to self-deport or you will never come back. | ||
| Might be true. | ||
| Her puppy dog didn't mind her, and she drugged it back to the Southeast Pile, and it never came back either, and then bragged about it. | ||
| And also, she had a daughter that wanted a real estate license. | ||
| Well, the person gives them out, she fired her because the daughter didn't get the license right away. | ||
| And then the government, she sent all them people down for the border, and they got sued, or not the government, but the National Guard. | ||
| They got sued by somebody in Washington, D.C., and that cost, I don't know how much the government was. | ||
| And other than that, I don't have a whole lot more to say about it. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, Doug did mention deportation, and this is the Associated Press with this headline that says, unquestionably in violation, judge says U.S. government didn't follow court order on deportations. | ||
| This says the White House violated a court order on deportations to third countries with a flight link to the chaotic African nation of South Sudan. | ||
| This is from a federal judge on Wednesday, hours after the Trump administration said it had expelled eight immigrants convicted of violent crimes, but refused to reveal where they would end up. | ||
| The judge's statement was a notably strong rebuke to the government's deportation efforts. | ||
| This was an emergency hearing. | ||
| He called to address the reports that immigrants had been sent to South Sudan. | ||
| It says, minutes before the hearing, administration officials accused, quote, activist judges of advocating the release of dangerous criminals. | ||
| That's the Associated Press. | ||
| Here is Mary, a Republican in Hollywood, Florida. | ||
| Hi, Mary. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I just want to know about our Social Security. | ||
| I haven't heard a thing about it. | ||
| As far as the country and what Trump has done with our country, I think he's a good businessman. | ||
| I think people need to stop and realize that. | ||
| Mary, what was your question specifically about Social Security? | ||
| What are your concerns? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I want to know if we are going to have to pay taxes on it. | |
| Okay. | ||
| And here is Gloria, an independent in Cleveland, Ohio. | ||
| Good morning, Gloria. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning. | |
| Hold on, let me down. | ||
| Okay, here. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
| My issue that I have right now is with Trump with this big, beautiful deal. | ||
| I'm not understanding why he would want to take from basically the needy so that the billionaires can have a tax, I mean, tax cut. | ||
| I feel like, I mean, if they're billionaires, why can't they just pay their fair share? | ||
| I mean, we have to pay taxes. | ||
| Why shouldn't they have to pay taxes? | ||
| That's for number one. | ||
| Number two is: I hear a lot of people saying, why not the Democrats standing up and speaking out? | ||
| It doesn't even matter, truthfully be told. | ||
| It doesn't matter if they speak up or speak out and fight, fight, fight, because if they take something to the Supreme Court, to the Senate, or whoever, they're not going to do anything because Trump rules, they're all scared of them. | ||
| It was already to the point where a lot of the Republicans was on the Democratic side to not pass this bill. | ||
| But then he made statements on X saying that they're going to sit terrorists outside their homes. | ||
| So now all of a sudden, the bill, now they want to side with the Republicans again. | ||
| He threatens people, and nothing is being done about it. | ||
| It just doesn't make sense that he's allowed to do so many things and say so many things to people. | ||
| It's just like the press. | ||
| He calls them stupid. | ||
| They ain't got no brains. | ||
| But if somebody says something to him, oh, he's going to put his people on to investigate, you know, Harvard's kids, the students, those are students that's trying to get by, trying to make a living for themselves. | ||
| And you take from them, you stop it just because they don't bow down to you. | ||
| And anything of color, he deporting, he don't care. | ||
| But he and third, with the South Africa. | ||
| Oh, sorry, Gloria. | ||
| I know you were about to say the South Africa thing. | ||
| Sorry, we lost you there. | ||
| But for the caller who had the question about Social Security taxes, this is a Palm Beach Post. | ||
| This is from USA Today. | ||
| It says, is there still a tax on Social Security in Trump's big beautiful bill? | ||
| What to know? | ||
| It says that the House passed the plan. | ||
| Despite campaign promises, the bill does not eliminate taxes on Social Security benefits. | ||
| It does include a temporary enhanced deduction for seniors and other tax breaks. | ||
| So currently, the bill does not include, does not eliminate taxes on Social Security. | ||
| And here is Randall in Hawaii, Democrat. | ||
| Good morning, Randall. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning, ma'am. | |
| A very early morning here in Hawaii. | ||
| I've been listening to the other folks calling in their comments about some of the tariffs. | ||
| I disagree with that. | ||
| I see the cost of living increasing here in Oahu. | ||
| And so this fluctuation of tariffs, I think it's just really difficult to keep track of because there's stays on some of these things and there's threats and the threats fluctuate up and down. | ||
| I don't think it's pragmatic to run a government based on some kind of illogical ideas of what's just and what's fair. | ||
| I think it's incredibly asinine to say we should have cell phones, iPhones that cost $3,000. | ||
| I did want to cover, I wanted to mention something in this polarization that's occurring right now as Democrats. | ||
| The humanitarian side that so many of us feel compassion for Joe Biden and his diagnosis at the same time, it's a painful reminder of the situation that we're in where so many people have concerns about the current administration, but they still feel like it's better than what we had. | ||
| And I just want to say hypothetically, if we did have a Joe Biden second term and this was occurring, we would be in nothing short of a constitutional crisis. | ||
| There would be a lot of calls for him to resign, and we would have a vice president that would not be able to step up to the plate and would be evasive and would be hit and miss. | ||
| And then the speculations about when this diagnosis really occurred, that would just be through the roof. | ||
| So I think it's another unfortunate, as sad as it is, it's a very painful reminder of just how lost we are as a party, as Democrats. | ||
| And I think we need to move forward with the AOCs, with the Hakeem Jeffries, and we need the Nancy Pelosi's and the Chuck Schumers to take a back seat. | ||
| We've got to find our message again. | ||
| We've got to get things together because this erratic administration is only going to get worse. | ||
| All right, Randall. | ||
| Tommy is a Republican in Adger, Alabama. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Morning, ma'am. | |
| What's up, Tommy? | ||
| What's your top news story of the week? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I just want everybody to tell me Chuck Ron Let him do his job. | |
| He could do something. | ||
| We all hurt, and they don't realize that. | ||
| I don't draw but nine something a month, and that ain't no money. | ||
| Everybody else drives new cars. | ||
| Drive what I drive. | ||
| $19.92 piece of crout. | ||
| That's all I drive, and I don't have no extra income. | ||
| I know where they come from on food stamps. | ||
| I don't draw about $184 a month. | ||
| Try to live off that. | ||
| It's rough, ma'am. | ||
| I cut back a lot. | ||
| I just want everybody to leave them alone and see what, let the man do what he's going to do. | ||
| Joe Videnke hand all these handouts, all these stuff, and these grants and stuff. | ||
| Look where it got us. | ||
| Broke, it's going to get us into a concession if we don't stop. | ||
| And that's all I've got to say, and I'm just praying for all this. | ||
| I'm praying to God every day, ma'am. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Catherine Bowling Brook, Illinois, Democrat. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| My comment and what I'm thinking about this morning is different from, I would say, most of the callers that have called in. | ||
| You know, we forget that this weekend is a weekend that we remember those who have died so that this great country of ours can be where we are today. | ||
| Whether we like it or not, whether it is right or wrong, we don't know. | ||
| But the comment that I have is, let's put more love space in our hearts. | ||
| In other words, you know, we talk about closet space, this kind of space. | ||
| We didn't have enough love space in our heart to open our heart to listen to somebody else, to feel the need of others. | ||
| So a reminder, and for me too, I, you know, I'm as guilty as anybody else. | ||
| I'm not saying I'm dead or anything like that, but let's listen and have more love space in our heart. | ||
| That's all I wanted to say on this great Memorial weekend. | ||
| Bye-bye. | ||
| Tom in Winter Haven, Florida, Independent Line. | ||
| Good morning, Tom. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning to you. | |
| I just wanted to call, and let me just qualify this. | ||
| I'm not calling to stump for President Trump. | ||
| I'm also not calling to criticize President Trump. | ||
| But this issue, it's more of an, you know, just trying to enlighten some folks out there. | ||
| When the issue of, you know, what, you know, the Donald paid in income taxes, I think a lot of Americans get obsessed with this income tax thing. | ||
| If the guy, you know, if he's got a good enough team of tax attorneys that can narrow down his exposure, okay, good for him. | ||
| But we're also forgetting that income tax is just one tiny slice of the tax pie. | ||
| If there were any way everyone could somehow have access to and add up, how much is that man paid in sales taxes, luxury taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes? | ||
| I mean, just any other kind of taxes you can think of. | ||
| Never mind, a lot of people that have worked for him and continue to make a good income themselves. | ||
| They pay taxes. | ||
| How much in the way of tax revenue is a wealthy person like Donald Trump actually contributing? | ||
| So when folks get obsessed about income tax, try to remember that is just one little slice of the tax pie. | ||
| And so, Tom, as far as the top news story of the week, would you say that it's the tax and spending bill that passed the House? | ||
| Is that what you would say is the most important? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I wouldn't say it's the most important, but I would say, actually, I don't have enough information on it to make an educated comment on it. | |
| I'm not a big fan of tax and spend. | ||
| Well, we've got a lot of videos for you to watch on our website, c-span.org, about it, about the debates and everything that's in it. | ||
| So you can get educated if you're interested. | ||
| Here's Bubba, Memphis, Tennessee, Republican. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Talking about the tariffs, it was not very long ago that Nancy and Chucky both was talking about that we need to get the tariffs under control because it was not fair from us. | ||
| You can probably pull up their speeches they made. | ||
| Since Trump is doing something about it, now they're all against it. | ||
| Everything Trump is doing, the Democrats are against it. | ||
| I don't care what he does. | ||
| They're against it. | ||
| Just like when he had that speech and he was talking about Lincoln Riley getting killed, Democrats couldn't even stand up for the little guy that had cancer. | ||
| They didn't stand up for him. | ||
| I mean, they hate Trump so much that they oppose everything he does. | ||
| And so, Bubba, you're in favor then, I guess, of the tariffs, including any of the new tariffs that he's just announced. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure, I am. | |
| I mean, it's only fair. | ||
| But you got these Democrats calling in talking about he's going to cut their Medicaid and Social Security. | ||
| He's said a million times he's not going to do that. | ||
| Now, there are over a million illegal aliens collecting Medicaid. | ||
| That's the ones that they're getting rid of. | ||
| So give Trump a chance. | ||
| He's only been president for three months, and he's done a lot. | ||
| He's done a lot more than Biden did in four years. | ||
| So all the hate going on, the name calling, you got these people call in and call Trump names. | ||
| I mean, that's what got them beat during the election. | ||
| They don't never learn. | ||
| But anyway, give the man a chance. | ||
| I mean, he's doing probably 100 times better than any president has done. | ||
| So just give the man a chance and he'll have this country back in shape. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Kathy, an Iowa Democrat. | ||
| Good morning, Kathy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| I was calling to say that the tax and spend bill was my top story. | ||
| But as I listened to some of the other callers, I guess I just reflect on the fact that they're saying it's okay. | ||
| It should cost $3,000 for an iPhone when they were complaining about the price of eggs just a few months ago and still are. | ||
| They've complained about a few cents or even a dollar more a gallon on gas, but it's okay for an iPhone to go from, you know, $1,500 to $3,000. | ||
| They're also the same people that would comment and complain that they don't have a free phone deal from their cell phone carrier. | ||
| So this isn't about blaming Trump. | ||
| This isn't about blaming the Democrats, but this is about looking at what are our priorities in the country. | ||
| And part of Trump's promise was to bring down the deficit. | ||
| The conservatives usually want to bring down the deficit. | ||
| Their tax and spend bill actually adds to it, and not in a way that serves the majority of our country, a way that serves the people at the top getting tax breaks. | ||
| And they are not creating jobs. | ||
| They're not creating jobs here. | ||
| That's why we got into the mess that we are. | ||
| The tariffs are not going to fix it. | ||
| We need to come up with a better solution. | ||
| And allowing our seniors, Social Security to be maintained, being taxed while we have billionaires who are getting a tax break is disgusting. | ||
| That's not the way we, those folks, some of these folks that have claimed to be Trump voters and supporters also say they're Christian. | ||
| And they are okay with pushing children off SNAP benefits. | ||
| They're okay with having seniors taxed or seniors kicked off their Medicaid. | ||
| We need to take a look at what our priorities are. | ||
| And we shouldn't be defending Trump at all costs if we're a Republican, nor should we be defending Democrats at all costs if we are a Democrat. | ||
| I completely think that the Democrats were wrong in covering up for Biden. | ||
| That's disgusting, too. | ||
| But we as people need to come together and say, we want our representatives and our government to work for us, not just defend what they tell us we should accept. | ||
| That is wrong. | ||
| And there was one Republican that voted against that bill, and that was Thomas Massey of Kentucky. | ||
| He was on the House floor overnight Thursday. | ||
| And here's a portion of what he said. | ||
| Well, I'd love to stand here and tell the American people we can cut your taxes and we can increase spending and everything's going to be just fine. | ||
| But I can't do that because I'm here to deliver a dose of reality. | ||
| This bill dramatically increases deficits in the near term, but promises our government will be fiscally responsible five years from now. | ||
| Where have we heard that before? | ||
| How do you bind a future Congress to these promises? | ||
| This bill is a debt bomb ticking. | ||
| Congress can do funny math, fantasy math, if it wants, but bond investors don't. | ||
| And this week, they sent us a message. | ||
| Moody's downgraded our credit rating, and the bond investors who buy our debt and finance our debt demanded higher interest rates on the 10-year note, the 20-year note, and the 30-year note. | ||
| What does this mean? | ||
| Very soon, the government will be paying $16,000 of interest, interest alone per U.S. family. | ||
| And what are we telling them? | ||
| Instead of taking care of that problem, we're going to give you a $1,600 tax break. | ||
| Under the taxing and spending levels in this bill, we're going to rack up the authors say $20 trillion of new debt over the next 10 years. | ||
| I'm telling you, it's closer to $30 trillion of new debt in the next 10 years. | ||
| Mr. Speaker, we're not rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic tonight. | ||
| We're putting coal in the boiler and setting a course for the iceberg. | ||
| If something is beautiful, if something is beautiful, you don't do it after midnight. | ||
| I oppose this bill when it's expired. | ||
| And go back to your calls. | ||
| We're asking you about your top news story of the week. | ||
| This is Kelly, Republican, Clemens, North Carolina. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, Mimi. | |
| I've got two things I wanted to talk about. | ||
| The first off is a new Senate report has come out on the COVID vaccines. | ||
| And there is a risk with the COVID vaccines, especially with the myocarditis and the young men. | ||
| And that is definitely from the vaccines. | ||
| And there are a lot of other side effects. | ||
| People need to go read the report. | ||
| And also, it was well known by the mod they found out by the Biden administration, and especially their HHS, NIH, and so forth. | ||
| Hold on, Kelly. | ||
| Let me tell people where they can read it, and then I'll let you continue. | ||
| So this is the report that Kelly's talking about. | ||
| It's called Opening Statement of Chairman Ron Johnson, Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations. | ||
| It's dated May 21, 2025. | ||
| This is about the COVID vaccine. | ||
| You can find that at hsgac.senate.gov. | ||
| Okay, go ahead, Kelly. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you for that. | |
| And also the other thing in the big, beautiful bill, now, as far as the Social Security tax goes, they are voting on that separately. | ||
| And they have to because of the type of item that it is. | ||
| And also, I believe there's one other out of those, like the overtime and the tax on, I think it's the tax on tips. | ||
| So tax on tips and overtime are in the bill that the House passed. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, well, then it's just the Social Security one that they're voting separate. | |
| I know that the Senate has already voted on a separate bill for tax on tips. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And so also there is not going to be any taking away of people who are legally having Medicaid. | ||
| They will still have their Medicaid. | ||
| That is another lie that is coming from the Democrats. | ||
| And also, this bill gives everybody tax cuts, not just the billionaires. | ||
| Quit saying that. | ||
| It is not true. | ||
| Go read the bill. | ||
| And no, you can't have the biggest tax cut as the billionaires because they're billionaires, for goodness sake, and that you won't get that amount of money. | ||
| And I want everybody to remember when they always talk about their taxes and they're poor, you get a check back. | ||
| You get those taxes back almost always. | ||
| All right. | ||
| And here's Tom in Baltimore, Maryland, Democrat. | ||
| Hi, Tom. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I'd like to speak about this news this week, the tragic accident involving the Mexican training ship that hit the Brooklyn Bridge. | ||
| We've all seen those videos. | ||
| Sailors Hamilton and Reagan fall onto the deck dying. | ||
| And I've seen some comments on social media that really are nasty, saying that the Mexican ship shouldn't have been up here. | ||
| What are Mexicans doing in New York? | ||
| They should deport the crew and all these crazy things that are so full of prejudice and hatred. | ||
| I can't believe it. | ||
| And I just believe myself that it's very unbecoming for Americans to say those sort of things. | ||
| I thought we were a better country than that. | ||
| Thank you, ma'am. | ||
| This is the New York Post about that dramatic video shows Oblivious Onlooker posing as Mexican ship crashes into Brooklyn Bridge. | ||
| You can see that at the New York Post of that. | ||
| And this is Patricia, Fort Lauderdale, Florida, Republican. | ||
| Hi, Tricia. | ||
| Patricia. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning. | |
| My comment this morning is that the big, beautiful bill, it's big. | ||
| It might not be beautiful, but if we do not extend the tax cuts that President Trump made in 2017, the middle class will suffer. | ||
| And as the other caller has mentioned, the Democrats just lie. | ||
| The only thing that they talk about is that we are cutting Medicare and that we are doing all these things that the poor people are going to suffer. | ||
| The kids are going to starve. | ||
| And I'm so tired of those people because that's the only thing that I can talk about. | ||
| And they know it's a lie. | ||
| And that's my point. | ||
| I mean, I wish that we could balance our budget. | ||
| I mean, we haven't done it in a quarter of a century. | ||
| You know, the deficit is a huge problem. | ||
| I'm afraid for my grandkids when they grow up. | ||
| Right, Patricia, this is Zach Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, Democrat. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Let me make a couple points here, if I may. | ||
| I'm a 66-year-old black Air Force veteran. | ||
| When I came out in 76, the average CEO made 45 times the average worker. | ||
| Today, that's 500 times. | ||
| In 1944, the average tax burden on the rich was 94%. | ||
| That was during the Depression, and they still did quite well. | ||
| I want to take this time also to remember my fallen brothers in arms on this Memorial Day. | ||
| You know, a service that Trump never serviced. | ||
| You know, he got let go seven times, you know, and he's a guy who called our service members landing on those cemeteries suckers. | ||
| You know, for those who think the tax cut for the rich is not big enough or they're still getting some, their cut is permanent. | ||
| Yours will be temporary, you know. | ||
| And for those who think Trump is a great businessman, he has six or seven bankruptcies. | ||
| The people who pay for bankruptcies are the people who invested in him. | ||
| They're the ones who got their hair cut. | ||
| Here's Jessica Newcastle in the United Kingdom, Independent Line. | ||
| Good morning, Jessica. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello? | |
| Oh, hi, Nat. | ||
| Hi. | ||
| Hi. | ||
| I just wanted to call in and ask you guys about whether or not you knew about ex-CIA NSA contractor Stephen D. Kelly, who came forward with information about the NSA Dumb Deep Underground Military Base underneath the Getty Museum in Los Angeles. | ||
| No, I haven't. | ||
| What is this about, and where did you hear about it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
So I heard about this. | |
| He's very popular on Twitter. | ||
| He has like his Telegram channel. | ||
| I've been like two seconds. | ||
| You know what? | ||
| I've got a copy and paste that I can just read out and make life easy. | ||
| It's only two minutes long. | ||
| I'll quickly grab it. | ||
| Yeah, I don't have two minutes, though, but Jessica, if you can just kind of tell us what it is. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, so I'm so sorry. | |
| So it's right. | ||
| So the second question we have. | ||
| Yeah, it looks like we lost Jessica. | ||
| Here's Joel in Rochester, New York, Republican. | ||
| Hi, Joel. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning. | |
| This is my first time calling, so I may be a little nervous. | ||
| Well, welcome to the show. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| So a couple of things. | ||
| You know, I just wish your show or other show would have shown Biden over the years how your company was. | ||
| I know you love to do Trump, you know, and every day it's a Trump trash show, but it's fine. | ||
| You know, he's president now, you know, thanks to you guys and other stations. | ||
| The other thing, the lady called earlier about a cell phone. | ||
| You know what? | ||
| We lived fine without cell phones for all our lives. | ||
| That's what's ruined these kids today's cell phones. | ||
| It should cost $3,000, $4,000. | ||
| Maybe parents would think twice about buying their kids' cell phone. | ||
| Don't you agree? | ||
| Would you still buy a cell phone, Joel, for $3,000 or $4,000? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Would I buy it? | |
| For yourself? | ||
|
unidentified
|
You know, I don't really care. | |
| I'd rather have a beeper. | ||
| I mean, you don't need to be on the phone 24 hours a day talking gibberish to the same people that you're going to come home to. | ||
| Every move you make, I just bought something and you text somebody about it. | ||
| Who cares? | ||
| I mean, cell phone, it's not do or die in your life. | ||
| You know, you don't need a cell phone. | ||
| A cell phone, we never had it for years. | ||
| Never. | ||
| You know, I'm sure when you grow up yourself, you know, you used to call on a payphone when it was an emergency. | ||
| That was it. | ||
| We don't need a cell phone. | ||
| But we don't have payphones anymore, Joel. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Well, they're all gone. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You know, get yourself a beeper. | |
| And then if you look at your, if it's a home number, you know, just find a way to get a call. | ||
| But some people don't have home numbers anymore, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| So then where's that beeper going to raise? | ||
| I let a senior citizen do. | ||
| And as far as the tariff, as far as the tariffs, ma'am, you know what? | ||
| He's right. | ||
| And I know that people, you know, hate the man, but a lot of these countries have taken advantage of us. | ||
| You know, he's just trying to reset the playing field. | ||
| And as far as billionaire, everybody's always using the billionaires, the billionaire is a tax cut. | ||
| Well, billionaires are who employ people in this country. | ||
| And taxes come from people that they employ. | ||
| You know, who cares? | ||
| Got your point. | ||
| It's Dr. Chris, Lafayette, Louisiana, Democrat. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, good morning. | |
| Yes. | ||
| Guys, I've had a chance to listen to a lot of our callers today. | ||
| And as Americans, they have a right to their opinion. | ||
| But I'm going to say this. | ||
| I'm watching what's taking place in Washington under this new administration. | ||
| And I tell you what, it is something to behold. | ||
| I'm watching, for example, if you go, look at our military. | ||
| I would like to ask all our military men and women to take a pay cut and to all those different departments that they are stripping that we had in this country for years. | ||
| Many of these departments have done major things for elders and for children. | ||
| Well, I'd like to ask all our military soldiers, when y'all see them taking away things from all the elders and all the children, does that irk y'all? | ||
| Will y'all give y'all check away? | ||
| You know, when y'all are overseas defending the country, we are over here taking care of y'all's children, taking care of y'all's wives and everything. | ||
| School teachers, we do that and everything. | ||
| The bottom line is our country, the direction that this administration is taking us, some people already know it's going to cost us some serious money. | ||
| 10 years from now, we're going to be $10 trillion more in debt, haven't done anything to the deficit in three months. | ||
| I'm going to tell them that in three months, all what some of them are saying that we've seen so much improvement, baloney. | ||
| With all due respect, I don't like to compare presidents. | ||
| I just like to see our country moving forward positively and taking care of citizens because the White House belongs to the people. | ||
| That is the people's house. | ||
| And when things are not being done fairly across the board, you know, the Democrat, the Republicans, and all of that. | ||
| I look at us as American citizens. | ||
| And when the citizens are not all being taken care of, that's unfair. | ||
| And they are giving tax breaks to those billionaires. | ||
| I got it, Chris. | ||
| This is Alan Gardner, Massachusetts Independent. | ||
| Go ahead, Al. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Morning. | |
| I'm calling in concern with my government. | ||
| I don't watch the president. | ||
| I watch the Congress. | ||
| The Congress could easily break that bill down and get everything that we truly need in this country. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But no, they want to pass a big, beautiful bill. | |
| And they forget about the tortoise in the hair. | ||
| You cannot do things in a flash. | ||
| Nothing will be accomplished. | ||
| You'll miss over everything. | ||
| We could get back to a balanced budget. | ||
| We could get back to a balanced economy. | ||
| We can get back to all these things, but he cannot rush it. | ||
| And he's trying to rush something. | ||
| Why? | ||
| I have no idea. | ||
| First of all, well, I have one idea that he's ignorant. | ||
| He's ignorant about every and anything he's doing. | ||
| And that is a pure fact, ma'am. | ||
| And he should, and people should stop listening to him and look at their Congress. | ||
| Go to C-STAN and watch your Congress at work. | ||
| And you tell me they cannot sit back there and get a budget pass line by line if they wanted to. | ||
| All right, and there'll be more time for your calls later in the show. | ||
| In about 30 minutes, we've got a conversation with author and investigative journalist Jerry Dunlevy. | ||
| We'll talk about a new effort by the Trump administration to investigate the 2021 U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan. | ||
| But first, after the break, Reuters reporter Dave Shepardson talks to us about the kickoff of the busy summer travel season and if the nation's air traffic control system is ready. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
|
unidentified
|
American History TV, exploring the people and events that tell the American story. | |
| This weekend, hear from Vietnam and Afghanistan Medal of Honor recipients Dwight Birdwell and Clinton Romashe about their wartime experiences after receiving the nation's highest military award for valor. | ||
| On lectures in history, Hillsdale College history professor Mark Moyer explores the various schools of thought on the Vietnam War, focusing on debates over the war's necessity and whether the United States could have achieved victory. | ||
| On Real America, watch a 1960 Federal Emergency Management Agency film on how to build a fallout shelter in your home. | ||
| It was produced with the National Concrete Masonry Association and was originally titled, Walt Builds a Family Fallout Shelter. | ||
| And House Speaker Mike Johnson presents the Congressional Gold Medal, the nation's highest civilian honor, to the 6th 888th Women's Army Corps Battalion for their contributions during World War II. | ||
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| Washington Journal continues. | ||
| Welcome back to Washington Journal. | ||
| We're going to talk about air safety and the state of the American air traffic control systems with Reuters correspondent David Shepardson. | ||
| Dave, welcome to the program. | ||
|
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Thanks. | |
| So this weekend marks the unofficial launch of the summer travel season. | ||
| Is the U.S. traffic control system ready? | ||
|
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So the short answer is yes. | |
| And what the FAA or the Transportation Department would say is that when things are too busy or it poses safety issues, they slow everything down, right? | ||
| They delay flights. | ||
| They take fewer flights at air traffic control centers. | ||
| And as a result, it leads to delays or cancellations. | ||
| There are safety issues that have to be resolved, certainly. | ||
| Number one, you have staffing. | ||
| The air traffic control staff is about 3,500 controllers short, the fully certified ones of targeted staffing. | ||
| And the other side, we have technology issues that have resulted in significant problems in Newark and in other places around the country. | ||
| The Secretary of Transportation has called for spending tens of billions of dollars. | ||
| Congress in the reconciliation bill has proposed $12.5 billion as a down payment to addressing ATC modernization issues. | ||
| So there's a lot of stress in the system and there are a lot of needs, but certainly it's safe to fly. | ||
| It remains the safest form of transportation. | ||
| So I want to talk about the modernization a little bit later. | ||
| I want to first talk about the staffing issues that you brought up. | ||
| How are they being dealt with in the short term? | ||
| How are all those people going to be hired and trained adequately to address that? | ||
|
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Well, that has been a big issue, right? | |
| Because number one, you have the washout rate, meaning people who don't finish the system. | ||
| One of the issues at Newark, which has gotten so much attention, is that the failure rate of new controllers at N90, which is the area covering the New York City area, the most congested airspace in the country, was close to 80%. | ||
| So the FAA last year... | ||
| Meaning 80% of the people would fail. | ||
|
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That's correct. | |
| The new trainees were not completing the program. | ||
| So as a result, the FAA opted to move about 100 miles of airspace around Newark from New York to Philadelphia, the Philadelphia Tracon, and to try to boost staffing and improve that washout rate. | ||
| So there's a lot of people on the pipeline in Philadelphia now to help that eventually get fully staffed. | ||
| So that's like a recruiting failure, that you're just recruiting the wrong people if 80% are failing. | ||
|
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Recruiting failure, arguably a training failure. | |
| I mean, but clearly there's a failure, that the system should not result in 80% of people not finishing the program. | ||
| And so one of the things that the department and the FAA are trying to do is have retention bonuses and sort of speed the process from the time you get approved to go to the FAA Training Academy in Oklahoma City to when you can start and more bonuses to retain older controllers, right? | ||
| So you can retire at age 56. | ||
| There's a lot of really good controllers that are retirement eligible at say 51, 52. | ||
| They're offering them 20% of their pay in addition to their regular pay to stay on between 52 and 56 or whatever as a way to help bridge that gap. | ||
| So sort of at the beginning, you try to keep the young ones in and retain, recruit them and get them in faster and reduce the washout rate on the other side, on the senior side, keep more of those folks longer. | ||
| Has Doge cuts had an impact on FAA? | ||
|
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So not for controllers themselves. | |
| So now to back up, remember the mid-air collision January 29th that killed 67 people outside of Reagan between the American regional jet and an Army helicopter. | ||
| The controllers had gotten an email like all these other federal workers saying that they were eligible. | ||
| And in fact, they got one, I believe, the day after that crash. | ||
| The FAA then and the Department of Transportation sent an email that none of the controllers were eligible. | ||
| So there are plenty of DOT and FA people who are eligible. | ||
| In fact, some FAA people did get reduced, but the FAA argues they were not safety critical. | ||
| They might have supported some safety features, but nobody, no air traffic controllers, no air safety inspectors got eliminated as part of the Doge cuts. | ||
| This week, the CEOs of the major airlines sent a joint letter to Congress, and they warned of the current air traffic control system. | ||
| They said that the current system is, quote, wildly, wildly out of date and failing Americans. | ||
| First, how surprising is that? | ||
| And how is it received on Capitol Hill? | ||
|
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So in some ways, this has been an issue that's gone on past many administrations. | |
| There's plenty of failure to take this issue. | ||
| There was a report last year from the GAO that said more than a third of the 138 air traffic control communication systems are failing and got to be fixed. | ||
| And many of these systems are so old you can't get spare parts. | ||
| The transportation secretary is talking about going on eBay to get parts to fix some of these systems. | ||
| They're very old. | ||
| I compare it to like a Frankenstein system of old systems that have been bolted onto one another after year after year. | ||
| And so using copper wire and just paper strips to monitor flights. | ||
| I mean, so this is a very old system. | ||
| And the problem is Congress, the administration over decades has approved just small amounts of money, sort of band-aids to fix this system. | ||
| And so that's where they want, $20, $30, $40 billion to build an entirely new, modern system that will hopefully speed traffic and not have these series of concerning outages we've faced. | ||
| We're talking about air safety and the state of U.S. air traffic control systems with our guest Dave Shepardson of Reuters. | ||
| If you'd like to join the conversation, you can. | ||
| Our lines are regional this time. | ||
| So if you're in the Eastern or Central time zones, you can call us on 202-748-8000. | ||
| If you're in Mountain or Pacific, use 202-748-8001. | ||
| And if you're a frequent flyer, if you consider yourself a frequent flyer, call us on 202-748-8002. | ||
| You can still use the line for TEX, which is 202-748-8000 and 3. | ||
| So the GAO, the Government Accountability Office, and others have sounded the alarm over this aging air traffic control system for years. | ||
| Why was it never heated? | ||
| Why have we gotten to this point? | ||
|
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Great question. | |
| So let's back up to the first Trump administration. | ||
| A few months into President Trump's term, he called for privatizing air traffic control. | ||
| Many countries have taken this government function, handed it to a private company to do. | ||
| Well, Congress said, we don't want to do it. | ||
| I mean, there were a couple hearings. | ||
| It never got a vote. | ||
| And then the Trump administration sort of largely gave up on modernizing ATC. | ||
| Then the Biden administration came in. | ||
| And if you remember, in January 2023, we had this outage of a very obscure system called the Notice to Airmen or Notice to Air Missions. | ||
| And these are notices that get sent to pilots that have to be given in real time, right? | ||
| There's a runway that's out. | ||
| There's a parachute drop nearby. | ||
| There's some other issue you need to know about. | ||
| Well, that system failed. | ||
| And so then the FAA took the unprecedented action of grounding the first nationwide ground stop since 2001. | ||
| By the way, this NOTAM system has failed twice this year. | ||
| Again, now that did not have the serious impact that 2023 incident did because of the backup system, but it does go to the fact, shows that many of these systems are old, have got to be fixed. | ||
| The Biden administration did ask for $8 billion last year. | ||
| They got a fraction of that. | ||
| But frankly, it took this mid-air collision, which the role of the air traffic controller, who is handling both helicopters and regional flights, has really brought the issue into focus. | ||
| And so, you know, the Biden administration did make some progress, clearly did not get it completed. | ||
| The Trump administration tried. | ||
| And during that whole period, we've been thousands of controllers short. | ||
| There have been numerous technology issues. | ||
| We have dozens or hundreds of outages of technology issues every week in the United States. | ||
| Again, most of them minor, but they do speak to the fact that neither party, neither administration had decided to spend the money necessary to completely overhaul the system. | ||
| Let's hear from Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy. | ||
| This is from earlier this month talking about the cost of this new system. | ||
| I'm going to leave that to the Congress, right? | ||
| How do they want to do this? | ||
| They can take a look at the numbers and what they think it's going to cost. | ||
| So listen, the House and the Senate, the committees of jurisdiction have worked on this kind of infrastructure in the past. | ||
| So I want them to come up with numbers. | ||
| If they want to allow us to bid this out and get numbers from industry to do the project, that's fine. | ||
| But again, whether it's part of the big beautiful bill or it comes in a different package, we do need all the money. | ||
| I think the Congress understands that the mistakes of the past truly have been these partial tranches of money that come. | ||
| You can't do it that way. | ||
| This is too big of an undertaking to have to sign contracts and not have the money to execute here. | ||
| I'm giving it to Congress. | ||
| What we did today was we laid out the plan. | ||
| We laid out what is necessary to make this system great, which is you have to redo it all. | ||
| That was the Transportation Secretary earlier this month. | ||
| Dave, what do you think of that and the amount that that's going to cost? | ||
|
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The industry has proposed $31.5 billion. | |
| Congress is at $12.5 billion. | ||
| The Secretary said tens of billions. | ||
| So I think $30 billion somewhere in that range is probably going to be at least what's necessary. | ||
| It could be more, right? | ||
| Because there's so much to unpack here. | ||
| You've got radars and air traffic control facilities and new fiber and new connectivity. | ||
| So there's a lot necessary. | ||
| I mean, I think the other challenge is how quickly can you get it done? | ||
| How can we avoid the mistakes of the past, right? | ||
| Because, for example, in 2023, Verizon got a 15-year contract for $2.3 billion from the FAA. | ||
| But it's going to take 15 years to replace a lot of copper wire and other critical infrastructure components. | ||
| And then in 15 years, it's outdated, isn't it? | ||
|
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Right, exactly. | |
| Very, very, very likely. | ||
| So how do we, and I think, you know, the Secretary is like, how do we have an iPhone system, right, where we can upgrade it, right? | ||
| Where we don't have this system, which copper wire, it's not, you can't upgrade copper wire, right? | ||
| So it is trying to reimagine system. | ||
| And look at other systems. | ||
| Some countries have very good modern systems. | ||
| So can we learn from Canada, Japan, the European Union, the UK, other places, Australia, places that have much more modern systems. | ||
| All right, let's talk to callers and go to Joan in Bridgewater, New Jersey. | ||
| Hi, Joan. | ||
|
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Hi, good morning. | |
| How are you? | ||
| Good. | ||
| Okay, my question is that I understand that I'm hearing that the system is old. | ||
| That's basically the theme of everything I'm hearing. | ||
| The system's old, but could it potentially be some type of sabotage going on in an old system? | ||
| Because as long as I've known and as long as I've been living, I've never seen these many planes crashing. | ||
| I've never seen these many planes falling and now all of a sudden they're blaming it on air traffic control. | ||
| Could it be somehow some type of sabotage that's gotten into that system and everything we're seeing right now is basically testing that sabotage of how much control they have to do these things because something bigger is coming? | ||
| That's what I want to know. | ||
| Has anybody thought about that? | ||
| Because we can't just blame it all on old private planes are falling out the sky. | ||
| All right, Joan, let's get an answer. | ||
|
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So I don't think there's any evidence of sabotage. | |
| I think there's enough redundancies, there's enough checks on the system that would capture that. | ||
| Certainly that's some of the FAA, FBI, other agencies are always on alert for. | ||
| In terms of crashes, I mentioned that horrible crash in January in Washington between the American Plane and the Army helicopter. | ||
| What people might not remember is that's the first fatal U.S. passenger airline crash since February 2009. | ||
| And we had unprecedented almost 16 years without a single fatality from a U.S. airline passenger airline crash. | ||
| Now, you're right. | ||
| In fact, we just had a terrible crash of a small plane this week in California that killed six people. | ||
| In a typical year, you might have 150 fatalities, hundreds of small plane crashes. | ||
| Those are not airlines. | ||
| Those are not professional pilots typically. | ||
| These are private planes. | ||
| That's a serious issue. | ||
| In fact, a lot of these pilots have been involved in near misses. | ||
| The FAA a few months ago convened a forum between General Aviation and the FAA and other entities and airports to try to address that problem. | ||
| So small planes remain a serious safety issue. | ||
| We need to address it across the board, but not in terms of passenger airlines. | ||
| Let's talk to Bill in Florida. | ||
| Hi, Bill. | ||
|
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Hi, how are you? | |
| Good. | ||
| I was a controller a long time ago in the Air Force, back in the 1980s, and I worked in a GCA, which is basically an old 1950s-style radar unit that is usually parked out next to the runway. | ||
| But anyway, I've also worked at New Mexico with much more modern equipment. | ||
| The thing that I would kind of that I've noticed is a couple of things. | ||
| First of all, I called in, I don't know, about three or four months ago and mentioned that really retaining other air traffic controllers, maybe ones that are just getting out of the military, would be a great idea. | ||
| The washout rate when I was in going to the military was about 75%. | ||
| So that number looks like that's upticked a little bit. | ||
| But, you know, again, I guess the only thing that I was kind of wondering was I did see a gentleman that used to be a control on talking about DEI initiatives in the air traffic control system. | ||
| And I did notice, especially in that last accident over Washington, the phraseology that was being used was really something. | ||
| You know, phraseology is important so that there's no mistake between the pilot and the controller on what is meant. | ||
| And just what I heard, the way the controllers were talking, it was, you know, really just as if there was no phraseology, no standard phraseology at all. | ||
| Anyway, I think it's a great idea that they are going to update this thing. | ||
| Maybe that Starlink system would be a great way to go. | ||
| I don't know, but you know. | ||
| I think satellite, you know, the Elon Musk Starlink could certainly be a portion of it. | ||
| It's not ready to take over air traffic control. | ||
| I think for the time being, a lot is going to remain on traditional radar, fiber moving, copper moving to fiber. | ||
| But certainly, especially in very remote areas, I definitely think Starlink could be part of the solution. | ||
| The FAA is already testing Starlink, especially in remote areas like Alaska. | ||
| And on terms of the controller at Washington, Reagan, certainly the interactions between the controller and the Army helicopter pilot and the apparent confusion over what plane that the helicopter pilot saw is sort of at the center of that investigation in terms of why the helicopter was where it was and why it ultimately turned into the path of the incoming American regional jet. | ||
| Let's talk to Jeanette in Burlington, Vermont. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
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Morning. | |
| I fly frequently to Florida for years, and I'm not doing it now because I don't trust any of the systems because they've cut so many people out of the air traffic controllers. | ||
| Mirabel and Trudeau Airport, I'm only like an hour from there in Montreal. | ||
| Excellent. | ||
| Updated. | ||
| I'm making a plan to fly out of there when I go to Florida. | ||
| And anyway, Elon Musk is all in the back of all of this going on and the cuts. | ||
| He wants to get contracts to renew the air traffic control, all of the FAA. | ||
| He is going to somehow get the tracks, and they'll be in the millions of dollars. | ||
| So people, be aware of that. | ||
| What you see in front of you behind the scenes is what's going on. | ||
| And if we don't stop him, somehow he's going to end up, there's going to be a huge, I won't fly like I said right now because there's going to be a huge, and I hate to say it, a huge crash. | ||
| All right, Jane. | ||
| So the caller certainly echoes the concerns of a lot of Democrats. | ||
| I mean, this got a lot of attention in February when there were reports that Elon Musk was preparing to send hundreds or thousands of Starlink terminals to the FAA. | ||
| That hasn't happened. | ||
| They're only testing a handful. | ||
| But there is concern that Elon Musk holds a significant position of influence in the administration. | ||
| And could he push the FAA into accepting Starlink before it's ready? | ||
| So the FAA is a very conservative organization in terms of making changes. | ||
| I mean, it's taken them years just to get this NOTAM system done. | ||
| Certainly, I think it would be a big leap to move air traffic control fully to Starlink, and that would take some significant time to test and get reassurances. | ||
| I would just point out one more thing in terms of air safety. | ||
| About the FAA's handling today, like every about 45,000, more closer to 50,000 flights today because it's so busy with Memorial Day. | ||
| And, you know, it's very safe. | ||
| I mean, all those flights are almost certainly going to come back to where they're supposed to go. | ||
| We've had a terrible crash. | ||
| The system's under a lot of stress, but the system is still very, very safe. | ||
| Well, so another part of safety is the TSA. | ||
| So the head of the Transportation Security Administration was on Capitol Hill earlier talking about the White House's budget request. | ||
| That budget request called for a cut to TSA of $247 million. | ||
| What is that going to mean? | ||
|
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Well, let's see if it actually happens, right? | |
| They actually made this case in the first administration. | ||
| When you leave the airport, have you ever seen those when you exit where there's always a TSA person staying there making sure that people don't go in and out of that door? | ||
| They tried in the first administration to get rid of that position, too, find a way to. | ||
| I mean, that's a lot of people, they argue, are just sitting there not doing much. | ||
| They could be actively screening people. | ||
| That's part of it. | ||
| And I think in general, they want to make cuts across the administration. | ||
| So they're pretty public about that. | ||
| Let's see if Congress is actually willing to do that. | ||
| We had record travel last year. | ||
| The TSA screened 905 million passengers, right? | ||
| And so the administration would like, I think, through a series of technology efforts to reduce staffing as part of their broader effort. | ||
| It still remains to be seen whether the Congress will do it. | ||
| Also worth noting that the TSA and the Secretary of Homeland Security has stripped those TSA employees of their collective bargaining rights. | ||
| You know, one of the many actions against employee unions. | ||
| That's one of the many actions involving unions in the government that's now before the federal courts. | ||
| Is there talk of privatizing the TSA? | ||
|
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I mean, there is. | |
| There's a bill, I think, that Senator Mike Lee and I think Senator Tuberville have proposed. | ||
| I mean, but there's a lot of pushback. | ||
| Because if you remember, pre-9-11, we had private security at airports. | ||
| And that was one of the findings at the 9-11 Commission that the airport security in the hands of these private companies was not adequate to prevent people from getting on airplanes before the 9-11 attacks. | ||
| Let's talk to Ralph. | ||
| He's in Warner Robbins, Georgia. | ||
| Hi, Ralph. | ||
|
unidentified
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Hi, good morning. | |
| I just want to say one thing. | ||
| What I hear now is I hate to get on this administration, but it's always ready to fix the blame. | ||
| And we're saying these problems have been going on for the longest. | ||
| These CEOs were given monies to do certain things to help correct some of the problems, but that was not done. | ||
| They took that money in their pocket. | ||
| My thing is, when are we going to stop blaming other people and get on about the business? | ||
| This scarecats are here, and this administration is doing nothing but trying to say, blame everybody else for the problem. | ||
| Let's get on with the problem. | ||
| I think you echo a lot of people on Capitol Hill, not just Democrats. | ||
| Some Republicans would say, let's stop the blame game. | ||
| This is a serious problem that has gone on for years, certainly across many administrations. | ||
| It didn't happen in the last 100 days since Trump took office, but it didn't happen when Joe Biden took office either. | ||
| So there's a lot of blame to go around. | ||
| I think you raise an interesting point about the airlines getting money. | ||
| If you remember after COVID-19, the airlines got $50 billion of the bailouts. | ||
| And some people would argue that one of the reasons that the Biden administration during the $1 trillion infrastructure bill did not ask Congress for more money to fix some of these outdated FAA systems was a fatigue among Congress about giving money to support the airlines. | ||
| And so if there was a missed opportunity, I think some people in the industry would argue is that during that infrastructure bill, we should have put more money into fixing things like replaceable aging radars and so these unglamorous parts of air traffic control that have really needed fixing for the longest time. | ||
| The $400 million plane from the Qatari government was accepted by the Trump administration. | ||
| What do we know about what it will take to make that into Air Force One and how much it'll cost? | ||
|
unidentified
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Great questions. | |
| We, Reuters, like many other organizations, are trying to get the answers to that. | ||
| the Air Force so far is not answered because it's classified but if we look at the baseline if we back what why would that be classified though we Because even today, we don't know the exact security systems on Air Force One. | ||
| I mean, people know this in the movies. | ||
| So there's certainly a big component. | ||
| I mean, there are some things that are not classified, but certainly there are security systems and the precise communications array of equipment on Air Force One are not known, in part because this is a mobile White House. | ||
| The President of the United States has to be able to launch a nuclear war from 30,000 feet aboard this airplane. | ||
| It has to be heavily shielded in case somebody tried to take the plane down. | ||
| So let's back up. | ||
| During the first Trump administration, then President Trump made a deal with Boeing to fix the contract price at $3.9 billion to buy two new Air Force Ones. | ||
| Boeing opted to retrofit two 747s that they had sold to an airline that went bankrupt. | ||
| And that's still going on. | ||
| Boeing now thinks they can complete that by 2027. | ||
| President Trump's very angry. | ||
| He wants that new plane. | ||
| But it's worth noting that it's taken years to retrofit these planes, right? | ||
| And so the first question with the Qatari plane is, is the Air Force going to accept the existing communications, all the typical communications equipment and the lines within it. | ||
| Are they going to rip all that out? | ||
| They rip all that out. | ||
| It would take months or potentially years, in addition to all the other military communications, other safety and security upgrades to make that into Air Force One. | ||
| It has a medical bay. | ||
| There's lots of things that need to be done. | ||
| How much is it going to cost? | ||
| Where's that money coming from? | ||
| And it's got to go through flight testing. | ||
| And what's the realistic timeframe that that can get done? | ||
| And all these questions are unknown. | ||
| Now, the Air Force Ones that are in service now, which came in about 1990, are perfectly good planes, right? | ||
| They're fully safe. | ||
| They're routinely maintained. | ||
| It's not clear what the urgency is. | ||
| There's plenty of planes that are in the U.S. Air Force fleet that are far older that are still in service. | ||
| But There's a lot of questions that have not been answered, and Congress is going to have to try to get the answers. | ||
| And how can we certify that it's safe? | ||
| Or what realistic timeframe can the president actually get this playing? | ||
| That's David Shepardson, correspondent for Reuters. | ||
| You can find his work at Reuters.com. | ||
| Thanks so much for joining us today. | ||
|
unidentified
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Thank you. | |
| At the top of the hour, we'll have a conversation with Fahad Nazer, a spokesperson for the Embassy of Saudi Arabia. | ||
| We'll talk about the president's recent trip to the kingdom and U.S.-Saudi relations. | ||
| But first, after the break, author and investigative journalist Jerry Dunlevy joins us. | ||
| It's about a new effort by the Trump administration to investigate the 2021 U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
|
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But I want to rise in strong support, Mr. Speaker, of this one big, beautiful bill. | |
| This bill that's going to deliver on so many promises that the American people asked us to do for them. | ||
| Mr. Speaker, I rise today in strong opposition to this reckless, regressive, and reprehensible GOP tax scam. | ||
|
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No other network covered Congress's action on the tax bill this week like C-SPAN. | |
| No breaks, no spin, just the work of democracy unfiltered. | ||
| 18 hours of the Ways and Means Committee meeting. | ||
| Democrats who vote against this tax relief will be voting for the largest tax hike in American history. | ||
|
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18 more hours of the House Rules Committee. | |
| I also want to welcome our dedicated C-SPAN viewers and rules aficionados. | ||
|
unidentified
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You know who you are. | |
| What the hell are you so scared of that you guys are holding this hearing at one o'clock in the morning? | ||
| And when the final vote came, we were there. | ||
| On this vote, the Yays are 215, the Nays are 214, with one answering present. | ||
| The bill is passed. | ||
|
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All night, overnight, gavel to gavel. | |
| C-SPAN, bringing you democracy unfiltered. | ||
| Book TV, every Sunday on C-SPAN 2, features leading authors discussing their latest non-fiction books. | ||
| Here's a look at what's coming up this weekend. | ||
| At 2:45 p.m. Eastern, Book TV presents coverage of the 2025 San Antonio Book Festival. | ||
| You'll hear author discussions on the Uvalde school shooting, Texas history, the impact of Jose Cuervo Tequila on America-Mexico relations, and more. | ||
| And at 8 p.m. Eastern, attorney Christine Menitas, author of Why the World Doesn't Make Sense, argues that Americans are unknowingly giving up their freedom and sovereignty to the government, private institutions, and global organizations. | ||
| And then at 9 p.m., Jonathan Cohen with the American Academy of Arts and Sciences looks at the downside of legalized sports gambling, dominated today by companies like FanDuel and DraftKings, with his book, Losing Big. | ||
| Watch Book TV every Sunday on C-SPAN 2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org. | ||
| As Mike said before, I happen to listen to him. | ||
| He was on C-SPAN 1. | ||
| That's a big upgrade, right? | ||
| But I've read about it in the history books. | ||
| I've seen the C-SPAN footage. | ||
| If it's a really good idea, present it in public view on C-SPAN. | ||
| Every single time I tuned in on TikTok or C-SPAN or YouTube or anything, there were tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people watching. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I went home after the speech and I turned on C-SPAN. | |
| I was on C-SPAN just this week. | ||
| To the American people, now is the time to tune in to C-SPAN. | ||
| They had something $2.50 a gallon. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I saw it television a little while ago in between my watching my great friends on C-SPAN. | |
| C-SPAN is televising this right now live. | ||
| So we are not just speaking to Los Angeles. | ||
| We are speaking to the country. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Washington Journal continues. | |
| Welcome back to Washington Journal. | ||
| We're joined now by Jerry Dunlevy. | ||
| He's the co-author of the book called Kabul, The Untold Story of Biden's Fiasco and the American Warriors Who Fought to the End. | ||
| He's also chief investigative correspondent for Just the News. | ||
| Jerry, welcome to the program. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you for having me, as always. | |
| So Defense Secretary Hagseth announced this week that there would be a new review of the 2021 U.S. military withdrawal from Afghanistan. | ||
| You will be a part of that. | ||
| Explain your role. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Indeed, so I was asked by the Pentagon to assist with their special review panel on the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan in 2021. | |
| I'm going to be working as an outside fact finder, an outside fact provider. | ||
| I'm going to keep my day job as a reporter. | ||
| And so I declined to receive any pay or compensation from the Pentagon when I do this job. | ||
| It's important because, look, this was a disaster. | ||
| This was a defeat in a 20-year war. | ||
| And the military, especially the military commanders and generals, have avoided any and all accountability for the mistakes that they made and the things they did wrong in 2021. | ||
| And so I'm very glad to be helping with this because the Pentagon under President Biden did not do any serious review. | ||
| So that's what I wanted to ask you, that do you believe that another review is needed? | ||
| What was lacking in that first review? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, absolutely. | |
| I mean, the Biden Pentagon, whatever review they may have done, largely remains classified. | ||
| CENTCOM also did a narrow investigation into the Abbey Gate bombing. | ||
| And I believe, after a very careful review of CENTCOM's investigation and the underlying witness interviews, that that was largely a whitewash, that they worked backwards from their conclusion, which was that the Abbey Gate bombing was not preventable. | ||
| And just one example of something, sort of an outrageous conclusion that CENTCOM under President Biden reached was that the Abbeygate bomber, Abdul Rahman Alighari, was being held in Bagram Air Base, which the United States abandoned in early July 2021. | ||
| One of the first things that the Taliban did as they marched towards Kabul is that they captured Bagram on August 15th and threw open the doors to that prison, freeing thousands of Taliban prisoners, dozens of al-Qaeda prisoners, and well over a thousand ISIS-K terrorists as well, including Abdul Rahman al-Waghri. | ||
| Now, CENTCOM ended up concluding that the Abbey Gate bombing was so unpreventable that it wouldn't have even mattered if the U.S. had held on to Bagram. | ||
| It wouldn't have even mattered if Ligari, the Abbey Gate bomber, had still been behind bars because ISIS K would have just used some other bomber to carry out the Abbey Gate attack. | ||
| I find that extremely fatalistic and problematic. | ||
| And I think that anyone with common sense knows that you are more likely to prevent a terrorist attack from happening if the terrorist who carried out that attack is sitting behind bars rather than being freed and running around looking to attack you. | ||
| So CENTCOM's investigation into this, I think, was problematic. | ||
| And the House Foreign Affairs Committee, the GOP-led House Foreign Affairs Committee investigation that I was a part of also sought out by design to let the military commanders like General Milley and General McKenzie off the hook. | ||
| And so there is... | ||
| Is that why you resigned? | ||
|
unidentified
|
It is indeed. | |
| Well, it is part of why I resigned. | ||
| Part of why I resigned from the House Foreign Affairs Committee last year was that by design, they were seeking to let the military commanders and generals off the hook. | ||
| They wanted a very simple narrative of this being President Biden's fault and the State Department's fault. | ||
| And that's true, by the way. | ||
| It was President Biden's fault, and it was the State Department's fault. | ||
| They made incredibly significant mistakes. | ||
| But it's not true that the Pentagon didn't make any mistakes. | ||
| The Pentagon made miscalculations and errors as well. | ||
| And so that is a big piece of this, along with, mind you, the intelligence community's errors that have not been investigated. | ||
| But those are two big pieces that remain to be investigated many years after this happened. | ||
| You know, the DOD, the generals have done a very good job of shifting the blame to other people. | ||
| And it's honestly, it's time for that to be done. | ||
| Well, let's take a look at some retired generals. | ||
| But first, I want to let people know that if you'd like to ask a question of our guest, Jerry Dunlevy, about the Afghanistan war withdrawal, you can do so. | ||
| Our lines are biparty. | ||
| So Democrats are on 202748-8000. | ||
| Republicans 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Independents 202748-8002. | ||
| If you fought in the Afghanistan war, if you're an Afghanistan war vet, we've got a line for you. | ||
| That is 202-748-8003. | ||
| And that's the same line you can use to text us if you would like. | ||
| So let's take a look. | ||
| There's two retired generals involved with the Afghanistan war withdrawal. | ||
| They testified back in March. | ||
| And here's an exchange between Republican Tim Burchett and then Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley. | ||
| 13 Americans, including my constituent, Staff Sergeant Ryan Knauss, and 170 Afghanis were killed at Abbey Gate. | ||
| Do y'all consider this withdrawal a success? | ||
|
unidentified
|
As I said in my opening statement, and I've previously said in several previous testimonies, I think the whole thing is a strategic failure. | |
| I've said that openly several different times. | ||
| But at the same time, I want it really clear that the United States military did its job and the United States military did what was asked of it. | ||
| And that anyone who served in Afghanistan or any family of the fallen or any of the wounded, every single one of them did their job, did what bravery and courage could ask of. | ||
| They did it with professionalism. | ||
| They did it with dignity. | ||
| They did it with courage and they did it with compassion. | ||
| So I believe the United States military executed its mission and I think that they did so with great professionalism. | ||
| And my dad had another saying. | ||
| I'm sure he stole it from somebody, but old men make decisions and young men die. | ||
| And that is apparent. | ||
| That's what happened here and those old men being at the State Department. | ||
| Would it have been better to choose a measure of operational success other than a date when deciding your own date of withdrawal? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I think one of the lessons, if you want to call it a lesson, I suppose, is don't put date certains on things like this and don't announce them and don't put date certains. | |
| That's basically you lose whatever leverage you might have had if you're involved in some sort of negotiation. | ||
| It seems to me that we've never learned that lesson. | ||
| We always announce these dates and then whether it be Vietnam or some other debacle, and it just seems to always end the same way. | ||
| And that was March of last year, 2024. | ||
| What do you take from that? | ||
| And they did also discuss the withdrawal dates. | ||
| So the Doha Accords, originally negotiated by the Trump administration, put it at May 1st, 2021. | ||
| And then former President Biden negotiated with the Taliban to push it to September 1st. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, actually, President Biden originally set his withdrawal date for September 11th, 2021, the 20th anniversary of 9-11. | |
| A pretty befuddling decision and a decision to conduct this retrograde in the middle of the Afghan fighting season, another big mistake. | ||
| You know, to go to what Milley said, it is absolutely true that the military service members on the ground, the troops on the ground during the evacuation performed heroically. | ||
| But the military commanders and generals made significant mistakes. | ||
| And I can tick a few off really quickly here. | ||
| In the summer of 2021, General Milley greatly inflated the size of the Afghan military and police, claiming that they were 325,000 to 350,000 strong. | ||
| That was never true, and it was certainly not true in the summer of 2021 amidst the Taliban offensive and the ongoing collapse of the Afghan military forces. | ||
| Milley also in the summer of 2021 got the speed and scale of the Taliban offensive wrong, being weeks behind how many districts the Taliban had seized and was now controlling. | ||
| General Milley in 2021 volunteered, claimed to Congress that this was not going to end up like Vietnam. | ||
| It was not going to be another Saigon. | ||
| The Taliban are not the North Vietnamese, et cetera. | ||
| And he was completely wrong about that. | ||
| And he was President Biden's top military advisor. | ||
| These are big mistakes. | ||
| These are mistakes about basic things, the capabilities and the size of your allied force, the intentions and strength and speed of your enemy. | ||
| These are big strategic mistakes that Milley himself made. | ||
| General McKenzie on August 15th, 2021, was in Doha in Qatar, meeting with Taliban representatives. | ||
| And the Taliban leader there offered to allow the United States to take control of Kabul itself. | ||
| The Taliban would stay out. | ||
| The U.S. would be able to bring in as many forces as we wanted, and we'd be able to control Kabul as we conducted our evacuation. | ||
| And General McKenzie turned that down on the spot. | ||
| I think that that was at least a chance that we could have at the very last minute changed the game at least a little bit and conducted a more orderly and safer withdrawal. | ||
| And maybe we wouldn't have ended up with the Abigail bombing because we wouldn't have been relying on the Taliban to provide security right outside of Kabul airport. | ||
| So, look, I mean, these are mistakes that the military made. | ||
| And those 13 U.S. service members, you know, it's appropriate, I think, that I'm on just a few days before Memorial Day because those 13 U.S. service members were killed by that bomber at Abbey Gate. | ||
| 2,400 U.S. service members lost their lives throughout the 20-year war in Afghanistan. | ||
| And I'm a very new father. | ||
| And shout out to my wife, Carly, and baby JD. | ||
| And, you know, part of why I'm so passionate about getting answers and accountability on this is we need it for the 13 U.S. service members who lost their lives, for the 2,400 who lost their lives in the 20-year war. | ||
| But we also need the DOD to understand that it needs to learn lessons from this because we're going to be in a serious war in the future against a serious enemy. | ||
| It could be Iran, Russia, China. | ||
| These are serious adversaries. | ||
| And if we don't learn these lessons, you know, it could be a lot worse than Abbey Gate. | ||
| And that's something that I fear and that I hope DOD learns some lessons. | ||
| And let's talk to callers, Jerry. | ||
| Let's talk to Steve in Dover, Florida, Democrat. | ||
| Good morning, Steve. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Thanks for taking my call. | ||
| This guy, everything that I hear him saying is, to me, factually incorrect. | ||
| He's ignoring the fact that Donald Trump surrendered to the Taliban and decided that we would leave 2,500 troops in and be out of Afghanistan by 2021. | ||
| Joe Biden took office in January 20th. | ||
| He had till May 1st to get this job done that Biden or Donald Trump's fiasco. | ||
| All right, let's get a response. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, okay. | |
| So I'm certainly not here to defend the Doha agreement that the Trump administration struck. | ||
| I've said consistently that I think it was a pretty flawed agreement. | ||
| That being said, it did have some conditions, and the Taliban was meeting none of those conditions. | ||
| You know, the Taliban's promise to ensure that al-Qaeda could no longer threaten the United States and could no longer use Afghanistan as a base of operations. | ||
| I mean, the Taliban never followed through on that, and I don't think that they ever intended to. | ||
| They did not intend to follow through on that and did not follow through on that during the Trump administration, during the Biden administration, and the Taliban continues to protect al-Qaeda to this very day. | ||
| So the Doha Agreement with the Taliban did have some conditions. | ||
| The Taliban was meeting none of them. | ||
| And neither President Trump nor President Biden would have been required to do any sort of conditionless withdrawal because the Taliban was not meeting its own obligations. | ||
| Because the Biden administration said that they were severely constrained by that agreement. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, look, I mean, the Biden administration threw out a ton of things that the Trump administration had done, a ton of deals the Trump administration had struck, a ton of policies the Trump administration had come up with. | |
| If the Biden administration didn't like the Doha Agreement, they could have gotten rid of it because the Taliban wasn't following through. | ||
| They also didn't have to follow it because the Taliban was not following through. | ||
| So I don't really buy that argument. | ||
| The Taliban was deceitful and duplicitous throughout this entire thing. | ||
| They were continuing to protect al-Qaeda just like they had done before 9-11 and just like they had done 20 years after. | ||
| If you didn't like the agreement, you didn't have to follow through on it, or you could have enforced the terms of it that the Taliban was violating. | ||
| Anthony is a Republican in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. | ||
| Hi, Anthony. | ||
|
unidentified
|
How are you doing, ma'am? | |
| Good. | ||
| You want me to ask a question? | ||
| Yes, go ahead. | ||
| You're on the air. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, I just got a question why that we chose Kabul instead of keeping the big major base that we had and the major airport base that we had over in Bagram, right? | |
| Bagram, we should have kept Bagram. | ||
| And obviously, everybody knows that when Donald Trump gave the order that not a hair should be laid on it, not none should be laid a hair on Americans' head, nobody touched a hair on our head for the 18 months, and that continued until Abbey Gate. | ||
| And why would we give up Bagram in lieu of Kabul, a much fee, you know, less feasible base where obviously we scammed out of there and let people fly off the plane? | ||
| All right, Anthony, wait, we got your question. | ||
| Go ahead, Jerry. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I mean, giving up Bagram was obviously a mistake. | |
| Choosing to do a NEO, a non-combatant evacuation operation out of a small airport in Kabul was a problem. | ||
| It became a disastrous idea, of course, once we attempted to do the NEO out of Kabul airport once the Taliban had taken over Kabul, because then we were forced to rely on the Taliban to provide security right outside the airport as they controlled essentially the entire country, including everything in the capital city outside that small airport. | ||
| Giving up Bagram was a mistake. | ||
| There is still a question about exactly why that was done. | ||
| It does seem that part of the reason why it was given up was because of troop constraints and troop cap put on by President Biden. | ||
| However, the military's decision was speed equals safety. | ||
| And the military attempted, the military commanders attempted to retrograde from Afghanistan as quickly as they could, meaning that Bagram was closed and abandoned by the U.S. in early July, even though the deadline for the U.S. to leave wasn't until September 11th, and then it was moved to August 31st. | ||
| And so by the time August 15th rolled around, we'd already lost Bagram. | ||
| The Taliban freed all the prisoners there, and ISIS-K's forces were replenished. | ||
| And they were able to carry out that bombing with one of the prisoners that had been there. | ||
| Here's Dee in Independent in Falls Church, Virginia. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning. | |
| This is Dee. | ||
| Ready when you are. | ||
| We're ready. | ||
| Go ahead, Dee. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| So I had a few questions. | ||
| My first being: with Project 2025 underway, what is the end goal? | ||
| And then my second question is. | ||
| Wait, Project 2025 in what respect? | ||
| Because we're talking about the Afghanistan war withdrawal. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, that was just, I guess I've read something previously with Jerry Levy speaking on that, so I thought I'd follow up. | |
| But if that's not an acceptable question for the topic, I have more. | ||
| Yeah, go ahead, but stick with the topic. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Gotcha. | |
| So my first question is, why did Jerry Levy choose to use the words Kabul as the very first word in his book, knowing that many people will associate the word Kabul with cabal since they look very similar, and that can cause— That can cause— You're talking about the capital of Afghanistan, Kabul. | ||
| Yes, but I'm just saying if we're speaking on the stories of the soldiers, why would we use such division immediately and then continue using like divisive language like Biden's cataclysmic, I forget the exact title, but it just seemed like the title was very divisive and it wasn't actually telling the stories of the soldiers. | ||
| So I'd just like an explanation on that. | ||
| Okay, we can take that up. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| So look, I mean, if you're interested, you can read the book because I ensure you that it tells the stories of the soldiers there. | ||
| The title of the book, Kabul, Biden's Fiasco and the American Warriors Who Fought to the End, kind of tells you what we were trying to tell here. | ||
| This was a disaster that, first and foremost, happened because of President Biden's conditionless withdrawal order and the cascade of mistakes that followed from that from Biden's inner circle, | ||
| from Secretary Blinken at the State Department, from Jake Sullivan at the National Security Council, and indeed Secretary Austin at DOD, as well as, I believe, generals like Chairman Milley at the Joint Staff and General McKenzie at CENTCOM. | ||
| So yeah, I don't think it's a particularly divisive title. | ||
| I was trying to get the main thesis of the book out there, which is that this was a mistake, a preventable mistake, but that also that the book is going to tell the stories of the warriors on the ground. | ||
| And we try to do that because as much as I keep hammering home that I believe that the military commanders in charge made serious mistakes, I've also talked to dozens and dozens of the Marines and Army soldiers on the ground there at HKIA, at Kabul Airport. | ||
| And what they went through was about the worst position that you can imagine being put in. | ||
| I think it's the most dangerous situation that we've probably put our soldiers in in living memory. | ||
| They performed heroically, bravely. | ||
| What they were able to do on the ground there was very impressive given the constraints that they were given because of mistakes by President Biden, his inner circle, and their military commanders. | ||
| Here's John in Wegwish, Illinois, Democrat. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, this is John from Hegwish, Hegwish, Illinois. | |
| Oh, it says W. | ||
| It's spelled with an H? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, Mimi, you look great today. | |
| Let me talk. | ||
| Okay, go ahead. | ||
| I'm a Vietnam veteran smart enough to talk three of my grammar school buddies and just join the Marine Corps. | ||
| We all went to Vietnam. | ||
| We all come back, all our fingers all our toes. | ||
| I have survivors blessing. | ||
| Thanks for writing the book, Jerry. | ||
| I have one simple question when Afghanistan comes up. | ||
| Are you glad that we're out? | ||
| Look the American public in the eye and answer that question, yes or no. | ||
| Thanks. | ||
| What I will definitely say is that I am not glad that we left the way that we did. | ||
| I do not believe that we had to leave in such a fashion that the Afghan military collapsed, the Taliban was able to rapidly take over. | ||
| The Taliban was able to conquer Kabul And that we were forced to conduct our evacuation relying on them. | ||
| I think that those were serious mistakes. | ||
| I think relying on the Taliban was a serious mistake. | ||
| Look, during the evacuation, because we were forced to rely on the Taliban, we had to ask the Taliban to search and raid ISIS-K locations around Kabul to try and protect our soldiers and try to protect the evacuation. | ||
| And the Taliban multiple times refused to do so. | ||
| The Taliban, when they seized Bagram, threw open the gates and freed ISIS-K terrorists, one of whom carried out the Abigail attack, and I'm sure many of whom are still looking to carry out attacks against us to this very day. | ||
| So, the way that we withdrew from Afghanistan was a serious mistake. | ||
| Whether you think that the U.S. should have stayed with a small force to give us a platform to carry out counterterrorism and to hold on to Bagram, not just to carry out strikes against ISIS-K and Al-Qaeda, but also to keep an eye on Pakistan and China, or whether you think that we should have left after 20 years of mistakes and failures. | ||
| What I think everyone should be able to agree on is the way that this was done was a serious problem, and there needs to be a serious reckoning and accounting so that we don't make these mistakes again, because we're going to fight wars again. | ||
| We're going to be in countries for potentially for a long period of time again, and we're going to leave countries again. | ||
| And we need to make sure that we do it the right way because the lives of our warfighters are at stake. | ||
| All right, Andrew, Ingleside, Texas, Republican, you're next. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, good morning. | |
| I would just like to say that I'm a 98-year-old veteran of World War II, Korea, and Vietnam. | ||
| And it appears that we haven't won a war since World War II. | ||
| Vietnam ended up in a debacle, so did Korea and Afghanistan. | ||
| We don't have no people like Ike and MacArthur and Patton and Admiral Halsey running the show for us anymore. | ||
| I'd just like to say that wish we had some winners in our military nowadays. | ||
| It appears that we don't have. | ||
| So that's all I have to say. | ||
| Well, thank you for your service, sir. | ||
| And I honestly, I should have said it for the last car as well. | ||
| Thanked him for his service. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, I think that Memorial Day is a time to ponder this. | ||
| The U.S. has not gotten a clear victory in a war for quite some time. | ||
| I mean, Gulf War I against Saddam Hussein, I think that we won that. | ||
| But of course, Saddam Hussein remained in power. | ||
| We ended up doing another invasion that I think it's highly debatable whether that turned out well given the amount of lives lost and Iraq's turn into sort of the Iranian orbit. | ||
| Obviously, we did not win the war in Afghanistan. | ||
| In fact, we lost it. | ||
| And I think that that really needs to be driven home. | ||
| We were there for 20 years and we were not able to achieve a victory there. | ||
| We were able to achieve something of a stalemate before we left, but it was not a clear victory. | ||
| And that's part of why I've been banging the drum on this as a reporter when writing the book while on Capitol Hill and now while helping the Pentagon with its investigation. | ||
| The U.S. and the U.S. military, especially, needs to accept that this was a significant defeat, that we did not understand the enemy, that we did not understand what our allies would be capable of without our support. | ||
| These are big, major things that you need to understand. | ||
| Your enemy, your ground force allies. | ||
| For any war that we're going to get into in the future, whether we're fighting Iran or Russia or whether China invades Taiwan, we need to learn the lessons from this war. | ||
| I do think while the war in Afghanistan is certainly different than likely the future peer adversary wars that we're going to be in, some of the basics are still there. | ||
| Know your enemy, know your ally. | ||
| And I don't think that we ever did after being there for 20 years. | ||
| So it's important. | ||
| All right, and that's Jerry Dunlevy, co-author of the book Kabul, The Untold Story of Biden's Fiasco and the American Warriors Who Fought to the End. | ||
| He's also chief investigative correspondent for Just the News, and that website is justthenews.com. | ||
| Jerry, thanks for being on the program. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you, as always. | |
| I appreciate it. | ||
| Up next, A Conversation with Fahad Nazir, a spokesperson for the Embassy of Saudi Arabia. | ||
| We'll talk about President Trump's recent trip to the kingdom and U.S.-Saudi relations. | ||
| Stay with us. | ||
|
unidentified
|
As Mike said before, I happened to listen to him. | |
| He was on C-SPAN 1. | ||
| That's a big upgrade, right? | ||
| But I've read about it in the history books. | ||
| I've seen the C-SPAN footage. | ||
| If it's a really good idea, present it in public view on C-SPAN. | ||
| Every single time I tuned in on TikTok or C-SPAN or YouTube or anything, there were tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people watching. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I went home after the speech and I turned on C-SPAN. | |
| I was on C-SPAN just this week. | ||
| To the American people, now is the time to tune in to C-SPAN. | ||
| They had something $2.50 a gallon. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I saw on television a little while ago in between my watching my great friends on C-SPAN. | |
| C-SPAN is televising this right now live. | ||
| So we are not just speaking to Los Angeles. | ||
| We are speaking to the country. | ||
| On November 17, 2002, 23 years ago, Rich Atkinson appeared on the Book Notes television program to discuss his book, Army at Dawn. | ||
| This was the first of three books Atkinson called The Liberation Trilogy, a full history of the European theater of World War II, which is a total of 2,512 pages, including notes and indexes. | ||
| Beginning in 2019, Rick Atkinson switched trilogies. | ||
| This time, it's the history of the American Revolution. | ||
| In this episode of Book Notes Plus, we are repeating the 2002 interview, which has substantial background on Rick Atkinson's life and writing experience. | ||
| Next week's episode, we will talk with him about his second book on the revolution, The Fate of the Day. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Rick Atkinson with his book, An Army at Dawn, on this episode of BookNotes Plus with our host, Brian Lamb. | |
| BookNotes Plus is available on the C-SPAN Now free mobile app or wherever you get your podcasts. | ||
| Shop at cspanshop.org. | ||
| C-SPAN's online store during our Memorial Day sale. | ||
| Going on now. | ||
| Save 15% site-wide on everything from apparel and accessories to drinkwear, bottleheads, puzzles, and more. | ||
| There's something for every C-SPAN fan, and every purchase helps support our non-profit operations. | ||
| Scan the code or visit c-span shop.org during our Memorial Day sale going on right now. | ||
| Washington Journal continues. | ||
| Welcome back to Washington Journal. | ||
| We're joined now by Vahad Nazir. | ||
| He's spokesperson for the Embassy of Saudi Arabia. | ||
| He'll talk about U.S.-Saudi relations and the Israel-Hamas war. | ||
| Welcome to the program. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good to be with you again, Mimi. | |
| So let's start with the war in Gaza and your reaction to what's happening there now. | ||
| Israel has threatened to take full control of Gaza and the humanitarian crisis. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| So, again, let me start by broadening the lens a little bit here. | ||
| Saudi Arabia's position on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been clear and consistent for many years. | ||
| We've maintained for years that for the broader Middle East to enjoy any semblance of peace and stability, the score dispute has to be resolved. | ||
| As far as we're concerned, the only way forward is a two-state solution. | ||
| So we are working on a number of fronts. | ||
| We're leading an alliance with Norway and a number of other international partners to basically advance a peaceful resolution of this conflict and to implement a two-state solution. | ||
| At the same time, yesterday, I believe it was just yesterday, we had a prep meeting at the United Nations General Assembly in preparation for an international conference at the UN that again would advance the two-state solution. | ||
| And that's the way forward. | ||
| We've been very consistent in saying that. | ||
| Do both of the parties agree that that's the best solution? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Certainly the Palestinian government does. | |
| And I think when you say Palestinian government, are you talking about Hamas or are you talking about the government in the West Bank? | ||
|
unidentified
|
We're talking about President Mahmoud Abbas and the current government over there. | |
| And again, I think what the effort at the UN is very important because it really demonstrates that there is an international consensus. | ||
| And this is not going to be some open-ended process and dialogue. | ||
| We're working towards some very concrete measures. | ||
| We are going to try to set an actual timetable and kind of key indicators to make sure that we can implement this and move forward once and for all, because this is not sustainable. | ||
| Obviously, the longer this goes, the more people die, the more people suffer. | ||
| And we need to act and we need to act now. | ||
| And how would you assess the ongoing ceasefire talks between Israel and Hamas? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, I mean, obviously, like I said, the suffering continues, the destruction continues. | |
| I'm sure you've seen the figures. | ||
| At least 50,000 Palestinians have died in Gaza. | ||
| Some 66% of all institutions have been destroyed. | ||
| That is not the way forward. | ||
| That is, obviously, this needs to stop. | ||
| We need an immediate ceasefire. | ||
| We need the release of hostages. | ||
| We need to make sure that the humanitarian assistance goes in. | ||
| And so that's short term, but long term, really, and again, we've said this over and over again, and we're working on different tracks, two-state solution is the only just and sensible way forward. | ||
| Well, let's stick with the short term. | ||
| What does Saudi Arabia want the Trump administration to do? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, we're working very closely with the Trump administration, as we have with previous administrations, and really for years. | |
| Because I think the United States and Saudi Arabia have alignment on a number of issues. | ||
| One of them is the need to resolve this dispute once and for all, because like I said, it's brought so much pain and suffering, not just to Palestinians and Israelis, but it's also been exploited by the most radical militant elements in the Middle East and beyond. | ||
| So we need to resolve it. | ||
| Ultimately, what we have is not just, we have a broad vision, not just for Israelis and Palestinians to live side by side in peace. | ||
| We have a vision for a Middle East that is at peace with itself. | ||
| that is economically integrated, something like what you have with Europe. | ||
| We see no reason why that can be achieved, but for that to move forward, for that to become a reality, we really do need to resolve this core dispute once and for all. | ||
| So specifically, what can the United States do to reach a ceasefire and the release of the hostages? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, obviously, the United States has a good relationship with Israel, but I'm not here to advise the U.S. What I can tell you is that Saudi Arabia has been an advocate for Palestinian statehood and the right to self-determination from the beginning, all the way back to when the crisis began in 1947. | |
| More recently, we have been cautioning the international community to make sure to bring this stage of the fighting to an end. | ||
| Because unfortunately, and we've been saying this for months, the longer that this fighting continues, the higher the chance that other elements and other players get involved in the region. | ||
| And obviously, like I said, the suffering has continued, 50,000 dead. | ||
| Very little is left in Gaza, and that is certainly not another way forward. | ||
| Let's talk about President Trump's trip to the Middle East and to Saudi Arabia. | ||
| There was a lot of business deals, including $600 billion investment from your country, Saudi Arabia. | ||
| Can you explain that? | ||
| What does that exactly mean? | ||
| $600 billion in investment in what and how and over what period of time. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, so I think that President Trump's visit to Saudi Arabia really kind of marked a new chapter in a long-standing relationship between Saudi Arabia and the United States. | |
| This is a long-standing relationship. | ||
| It goes back 92 years. | ||
| In many ways, it's multi-dimensional. | ||
| It includes political cooperation on a number of fronts. | ||
| It includes military and security cooperation, including regular joint military training. | ||
| At the same time, it's always included a very important economic, trade, and investment dimension of it. | ||
| I think all of these dimensions were showcased during the President's visit. | ||
| And like you said, there was a number of agreements that were signed, I think, starting with a strategic economic partnership agreement between His Royal Highness the Crown Prince and President Trump. | ||
| But also there were a number of government-to-government agreements. | ||
| This included the Ministry of Defense, the Ministry of the National Guard, the Ministry of Energy, the Ministry of Industry and Mineral Resources. | ||
| Our space agency also signed an agreement. | ||
| So that's on one front. | ||
| On another front, there was this massive U.S.-Saudi investment conference. | ||
| And that's where these announcements, these agreements were announced. | ||
| So $300 billion worth of agreements and deals were announced. | ||
| And another $300 billion worth of agreements were discussed and will be announced. | ||
| We fully expect them to be announced in the next few months. | ||
| And this involves a pretty wide spectrum of sectors, defense, energy, technology of all sorts, especially AI, because AI is obviously this amazing new technology that could completely transform the way that people work, the way that we interact with each other, the way we live in general. | ||
| So there was a lot. | ||
| I think a lot was agreed upon. | ||
| And really, I think it showcased the breadth and the depth of the relationship. | ||
| And if you've got a question for our guest, the spokesperson for the Saudi embassy here in the DC in DC, you can give us a call. | ||
| The lines are biparty. | ||
| So Democrats are on 202-748-8000. | ||
| Republicans 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Independents 202748-8002. | ||
| The kingdom has said that they plan to diversify away from oil, their economy. | ||
| It's a reform agenda called Vision 2030. | ||
| Can you explain what that entails and what the benefits to the United States might be? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, so Vision 2030 is a broad spectrum of economic and social reforms that was unveiled by His Royal Highness the Crown Prince back in 2016. | |
| Really, broadly speaking, the objectives of Vision 2030 is the empowerment of every segment of Saudi society and also the development of every sector of the Saudi economy. | ||
| At the same time, we've completely revolutionized the way that we deliver government services. | ||
| So we have a number of sectors that are being developed to their full potential now. | ||
| So mining is one of them. | ||
| Tourism is another one. | ||
| information technology, we've basically- So tourism isn't a big thing that you think of when you think of Saudi Arabia? | ||
| Yeah, you don't. | ||
| But again, and I think the credit really does go to His Royal Highness and his advisors, because I think you're right in saying that. | ||
| But Saudi Arabia, actually, right now, as we speak, has the second fastest growing tourism sector in the world. | ||
| Last year, we had 27 million people visit Saudi Arabia for non-religious reasons. | ||
| That's obviously a record for us, and we expect these numbers to go up at the same time. | ||
| So are you inviting Americans to go visit Saudi Arabia? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Absolutely. | |
| I mean, you know, as we speak, there's an estimated 70 to 80,000 Americans who live and work in Saudi Arabia. | ||
| And I think that's an important dimension of the relationship. | ||
| At the same time, you're absolutely right. | ||
| I think Saudi Arabia has a lot to offer in terms of a tourist destination. | ||
| We have eight UNESCO World Heritage Sites. | ||
| And I see tourists, because I go to the kingdom about four or five times a year. | ||
| I see them in Riyadh, I see them in Al-Ola, which is the Nabataean ruins. | ||
| And I know they're tourists because they're dressed in sneakers and backpacks. | ||
| And incidentally, that's how I dress wherever I go. | ||
| So American women would not have to wear the abaya? | ||
|
unidentified
|
They don't. | |
| And again, I've seen Americans. | ||
| And you don't have to take my word for it, but if you go on YouTube, you're going to see dozens of videos of Americans who, frankly, have seen more of Saudi Arabia than I have. | ||
| They get in cars and RVs and drive all over the place. | ||
| And we believe that, in addition to these sites that I mentioned, I think we have maybe a built-in advantage in the sense that we, I hope, and again, I'm a little biased in saying this, but I think we are a warm and welcoming people. | ||
| We take hospitality very seriously. | ||
| So you're going to see, again, if you go on YouTube, you're going to see dozens of videos of Americans being invited by Saudis as they travel across Saudi Arabia. | ||
| And the Saudis know their Americans are not locals, but they invite them in. | ||
| They insist that they share a cup of tea, a cup of coffee, and dinner. | ||
| And really, I think that's a demonstration of just, you know, how welcoming and how open Saudi Arabia is. | ||
| Turning to Iran, how would you characterize the relationship currently between Saudi Arabia and Iran? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I think the relationship is good and cordial. | |
| Obviously, we restored diplomatic relations with Iran a couple of years ago. | ||
| Iran is our neighbor. | ||
| It has tremendous potential. | ||
| It has a tremendous history, a predominantly young population. | ||
| So we've always wanted, and we're very hopeful, that Iran, again, will become integrated into this broader region. | ||
| We maintain a very robust channel of communication. | ||
| Our foreign minister speaks to his counterpart on a regular basis. | ||
| And we actually had our most senior Saudi official visit Iran a couple of months ago, and this was the Minister of Defense. | ||
| So I think this is all indicative of a good working relationship with Iran. | ||
| What does Saudi Arabia want the Trump administration to do regarding the negotiations over Iran's nuclear program? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, so obviously we've been speaking to our American partners on a regular basis about the negotiations. | |
| We're hopeful that they will lead to an agreement. | ||
| Again, our broad vision for the Middle East is for a region without any nuclear, not just nuclear weapons, but weapons of mass destruction in general. | ||
| We're hoping that this conversation will be fruitful. | ||
| And again, one of the things that we do and we advocate and we promote is keeping an open channel of dialogue, having a robust, candid dialogue. | ||
| That's what we do when we conduct our own foreign affairs. | ||
| But we're certainly glad that the U.S. is having this honest and candid conversation with Iran. | ||
| And we do hope that it ends in an agreement that promotes peace and prosperity in the region. | ||
| Let's talk to callers. | ||
| Bill is up first in Florida on the independent line. | ||
| Hi, Bill. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning. | |
| Thanks for taking my call. | ||
| I must disagree with your guest. | ||
| I mean, we face a terrible situation with 2 million people wrapped basically at the southern part of Gaza. | ||
| And there is no possible way that these people are going to be able to come back into this territory and rebuild the society without having tremendous animosity to Israel. | ||
| And I just don't understand why there isn't tremendous political pressure brought on Egypt that these people need to be humanely dispersed and help to build a better life now. | ||
| To have a quote, two-state solution with a state being considered as Gaza is just not practical, regardless of what you really think about the war. | ||
| This is a very unusual kind of situation we have. | ||
| That many people trapped, and you can't allow them, you cannot allow these people to starve, and they need to be moved to other countries. | ||
| And I tell you, Saudi Arabia should help in pressuring these other countries to accept these individuals as their society. | ||
| Let's get a response. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| So, I mean, I agree with the caller when he said that, you know, Palestinians in Gaza are trapped and they've endured a lot of suffering. | ||
| At the same time, Saudi Arabia has been very consistent in saying that displacement is not an option. | ||
| A couple of years ago, I guess it was in late 2023, I personally moderated a press conference that included the foreign ministers not just of Saudi Arabia, but also Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, and other countries. | ||
| And the Egyptian and the Jordanian ministers were very clear and candid in saying that this is a red line for them. | ||
| And because it really, in some ways, displacing or forcing Palestinians out, I hope that is not the intention of Israel, but it is certainly not what Palestinians want. | ||
| It is not what the Egyptians want. | ||
| It is not what the Jordanians want. | ||
| It's not what Saudi Arabia wants. | ||
| Saudi Arabia and its neighbors want what Palestinians have been saying they want and what they have the right to have, which is self-determination, an independent Palestinian state based on the borders of 1967. | ||
| And it's really not a big ask. | ||
| They want to do what everybody does, which is to wake up in the morning with a sense of hope and a sense of purpose. | ||
| We're hoping that the Israelis realize that. | ||
| Would Saudi Arabia be okay with Hamas still being in charge of Gaza? | ||
|
unidentified
|
We are, obviously, we're not in the business of determining other people's leaders. | |
| What we have made very clear, our dealings, our interlocutors are President Abbas. | ||
| and the newly appointed prime minister. | ||
| We're working very closely with them. | ||
| But like I said, Saudi Arabia is moving on two different tracks. | ||
| We are leading this global coalition with Norway, but we're also working at the United Nations going through these institutions that have been put there for a reason to address some of these challenging global challenges. | ||
| So the conference that I told you about, the prep conference that I mentioned yesterday, really is going to go into the details and is going to have a very detailed blueprint as to the way forward. | ||
| And that would not include just, and sorry, just so the establishment and the recognition of the Palestinian state would not be an end result of it. | ||
| In some ways, it would be a beginning to what we hope is going to be an integrated Middle East that is at peace with itself and its neighbors. | ||
| Does the government of Saudi Arabia have any communication with Hamas leaders? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Not to my knowledge, no. | |
| Our interlocutors are President Abbas and the Vice President and the Prime Minister. | ||
| In Baltimore, Maryland, Republican line Deandra? | ||
|
unidentified
|
DeAndre. | |
| DeAndre, go right ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, how you doing today? | |
| Thank you for taking my call. | ||
| So the gentleman here, the guest, really sees you got a lot of skin in the game, because I like your lingo. | ||
| So I'm going to work with you here. | ||
| So there are some international diplomat people in the West Bank yesterday on behalf of their nations, Spain, Italy, France, Britain, and others. | ||
| And they were actually shot at by the IDF. | ||
| So I think Israel has made it very, very clear that Nanya, who said it himself, they're going to live by the sword forever. | ||
| They're taking over and conquering all of Gaza. | ||
| They don't want the Gazans back. | ||
| They're essentially exterminating them right now. | ||
| There's this operation called the Gideon's Chariot. | ||
| And then now there's this move to move on actions on Iran. | ||
| I mean, it's a lot of stuff happening very quickly. | ||
| But I don't think Israel's planning on stopping this, even if Hamas succumbs to all their agreements, all their demands. | ||
| And honestly, I haven't seen, I've touched every single day. | ||
| I don't see Israel targeting Hamas. | ||
| I don't see them targeting tunnels. | ||
| They're using our bombs that we give them and munitions, and they're dropping it on people displaced in tents. | ||
| The entire land has been leveled. | ||
| It's been leveled, 86% of the infrastructure. | ||
| And they said, yeah, they're going to continue to destroy the infrastructure, make it incapable for the people to inhabit the region. | ||
| So they won't want to come back. | ||
| DeAndre, we'll get a response. | ||
| Just want to mention, he said, Gideon's chariots, this is ABC News. | ||
| IDF announces start of Operation Gideon's Chariots, Gaza ground offensive. | ||
| The operation, quote, eliminated dozens of terrorists, according to the IDF. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, like I said, we feel very strongly and we've been very consistent. | |
| This operation, whatever it's called, has to stop. | ||
| More violence is not the answer. | ||
| More deaths is not the answer. | ||
| More destruction is not the answer. | ||
| And again, we're working very closely. | ||
| I think we do have an international consensus here. | ||
| And frankly, the only country that is against it is Israel. | ||
| And so we're hoping that Israelis, frankly, just listen to reason because destroying all of Gaza, inflicting as much pain and suffering on Gazans, is not going to ensure Israel's security. | ||
| Not in the short term and certainly not in the long term. | ||
| Here's Patricia in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Democrat. | ||
| Good morning, Patricia. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I wanted to ask why Mr. Nazir believes that the two-state solution is the only solution. | ||
| And the two leaders, Debtadahu and Abbas, do not have consensus from the population that they serve. | ||
| They would not win an election. | ||
| And somehow, new leadership from the region, from Israel-Palestine, has to be promoted to have one state with democratic rights for all the people living in the area. | ||
| Otherwise, there'll never be security. | ||
| Never. | ||
| Right, so I'll just say a couple of, I'll make another reference to our efforts through the United Nations. | ||
| One of the things that we're doing is, and one of the keys to resolving this dispute once and for all, is supporting the Palestinian government. | ||
| And we've commended some of the steps that the Palestinian government under President Abbas has taken in terms of reforming some of its institutions. | ||
| Going forward, the international community, I think, does have an obligation to support the Palestinian Authority, the Palestinian government as it restructures. | ||
| But like I said, this is going to be a number of steps that have to be taken. | ||
| And recognition of a Palestinian state is in some ways just the beginning. | ||
| While President Trump was in Saudi Arabia and he gave a speech, he announced the lifting of sanctions against Syria. | ||
| What was the reaction from Saudi Arabia on that? | ||
| And what kind of investments should we be expecting from Saudi Arabia to Syria? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, so we have been advocating for the lifting of sanctions on Syria. | |
| I think obviously you do not have to be a historian of the Middle East or of Syria to know that the civil war that they've endured was extremely painful. | ||
| There was a lot of suffering. | ||
| We're hopeful that this stage in Syria's history represents a new chapter, a new hopeful chapter. | ||
| And we've been supportive of the new government. | ||
| I think that they have said all the right things. | ||
| They have also taken some very reassuring measures in terms of being inclusive of all the different elements, all the different segments of Syrian society. | ||
| But they've also expressed an intent to live in peace with its neighbors. | ||
| And so we've been very supportive and we were very appreciative of President Trump's lifting of the sanctions. | ||
| Again, and I've said this before, there's tremendous potential in every single Arab country in the region. | ||
| Syria is no exception. | ||
| Will Saudi Arabia be investing in Syria? | ||
|
unidentified
|
We are, yeah, and we will be. | |
| And we've already, we're providing certainly political support, but also financial support to make sure that this transition, and these transitions are never that easy, but we're hopeful that the Syrians will make a successful transition. | ||
| We will do whatever we can to provide support, both political and financial, but we're also hopeful and expect the broader international community to do its part as well. | ||
| And you're confident that the new government in Syria will protect the rights of religious minorities? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, they've made that pledge, and we certainly, I think, for Syria to be integrated into the region and to be accepted by the broader international community, I think that is the expectation. | |
| Let's talk to San Kofa in Marietta, Georgia, Independent. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, sir. | |
| I am of the opinion that you, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, the other immigrant emirates, that y'all are cowards. | ||
| Y'all have sit by, y'all talk a good game about the Palestinians, but you really don't care about the Palestinians. | ||
| And you talking about Abbas, he's weak. | ||
| He can't even stop the settlers for taking over the land in the West Bank. | ||
| And it's towards the UN and international. | ||
| Y'all sitting here doing nothing. | ||
| And the UN is weak because it can't do anything without the United States saying, yeah, or no. | ||
| I hope that your people rise up and throw y'all out because y'all cowardly. | ||
| The Palestinians, our blood is on your hands. | ||
| All right, let's get a response. | ||
| You're doing nothing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, I couldn't disagree more. | |
| Like I said, we are working on multiple tracks with this global coalition, with the convention at the United Nations. | ||
| Not only that, but we have been, I would say, at the forefront of this Palestinian cause from the beginning, going back to the 1940s. | ||
| It was us, it was the late King Abdullah who presented what is now known as the Air Peace Initiative back in 2002. | ||
| And that initiative does offer Israel full normalization in return for a comprehensive and just peace with the Palestinians. | ||
| So I respectfully disagree with the caller. | ||
| We're working again with the United States, with the United Nations in trying to resolve this dispute once and for all. | ||
| Not only that, but we've also, we have probably been the biggest provider of humanitarian assistance to Palestinians. | ||
| A lot of this assistance in the form of food and medicine and other essentials is coming from the government. | ||
| But I believe that we also had an initiative and a campaign last year where regular Saudis contributed, I want to say, 500 million reals worth of assistance, again, to help Palestinians. | ||
| So I completely disagree with the caller, respectfully. | ||
| Here's a Republican in Port Charlotte, Florida. | ||
| Fred, you're on the air. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, thank you very much. | |
| Mr. Nasser, I have a question. | ||
| First of all, I don't know how Hamas became the leadership of the Palestinians. | ||
| And why haven't the Palestinians themselves stood up to fight against Hamas? | ||
| And wouldn't it be better to give the arms to the Palestinians to fight for themselves? | ||
| Why have they not stood up and fought for their land? | ||
| Thank you very much, sir. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So I think the last thing that the Middle East needs is more fighting and more violence. | ||
| That is why we are working with our partners to try to advance a political resolution. | ||
| This conflict, again, has gone on far too long. | ||
| The suffering has been terrible. | ||
| And the longer it goes, the more we're going to have these cycles of violence and extremism. | ||
| And so we believe that the time for action is now. | ||
| I think that what we're doing at the United Nations right now is certainly a good step and a good process. | ||
| And it does represent the will of the international community and certainly these institutions, the United Nations, that's what they're for, to try to resolve and promote peace and stability. | ||
| Regarding people choosing their own leaders, there hasn't been an election in Gaza since, I believe, 2006 or something like that, where it's essentially one time. | ||
| The people elected Hamas, and that was the end of elections. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| And all of these issues will be discussed, but obviously we cannot think or think about elections in Gaza considering what is happening right now. | ||
| I mean, you still have deaths by the hundreds on a daily basis. | ||
| The destruction is massive. | ||
| So we are unfortunately not, you know, the talk of elections is maybe is not quite the time for it now. | ||
| But in terms of the future of Gaza, the future of the West Bank is something that is being discussed at the United Nations. | ||
| Saudi Arabia is working with its Palestinian partner and others to try to create a concrete framework where all of these discussions and all of these issues will be discussed and put forward. | ||
| Here's Dan, a Democrat in Birdstown, Tennessee. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, Mimi. | |
| Thank you for your work as usual. | ||
| It's always excellent. | ||
| Mr. Ambassador, I have a couple of impressions of Saudi Arabia that maybe you can help me dispel. | ||
| Is it true that the royals in Saudi Arabia or anybody with money is afraid of manual labor and that you basically have immigrants do your manual labor in that country? | ||
| The second impression I have of Saudi Arabia is you guys are afraid of human rights, freedom of the press. | ||
| I was wondering what you did with Khashoggi. | ||
| I understand you cut him up and put him in a bat of acid. | ||
| I'm just wondering, this Gaza situation, yeah, I understand Israel's position and wanting to snuff out all the violence in Gaza, but it's turned into a genocide is what it amounted to. | ||
| And it reminds me of the body count that we had to take in Vietnam. | ||
| And I don't know. | ||
| Can you dispel some of these impressions I have of Saudi Arabia, sir? | ||
| Yes, I'm not sure where to start. | ||
| But first of all, I'm not the ambassador. | ||
| I'm the spokesperson of the Saudi embassy. | ||
| Two, in terms of manual labor, Saudi Arabia has a predominantly young population, and we are undergoing what I would consider to be the most consequential transformation anywhere in the world. | ||
| This transformation that we call Vision 2030 is being led predominantly by young Saudi men and women. | ||
| We are completely transforming Saudi Arabia. | ||
| We're turning it into not just a tourism destination, a logistics hub, a technology hub, and we are leaders on many fronts. | ||
| You mentioned human rights. | ||
| Saudi Arabia respects human rights. | ||
| We are signatories to dozens of agreements and conventions that protect the rights of women, that protect the rights of the elderly, the rights of children, the rights of people with disabilities, the rights of people with special needs. | ||
| We have a human rights commission that investigates human rights allegations. | ||
| At the same time, and again, respecting human rights is also consistent with not just our laws, and it's enshrined in our laws. | ||
| It's also consistent with our faith. | ||
| It's consistent with our values. | ||
| And just about Jamal Khashoggi. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, I'll add just one more time, if you allow me, Mimi, and the caller's impressions about human rights. | |
| Last year we conducted the most comprehensive census in Saudi Arabia. | ||
| It found that we have a population of 32 million total, 14 million of whom are non-Saudis. | ||
| If we did not respect human rights in Saudi Arabia, if we were not a welcoming society, if we did not respect those in Saudi Arabia currently living in Saudi Arabia who are not Saudis, they would not live in Saudi Arabia. | ||
| They wouldn't work there. | ||
| And some of them have been living there for years. | ||
| So the facts really belie some of these impressions that the caller has. | ||
| And like I mentioned to you earlier, Americans by the thousands are visiting Saudi Arabia. | ||
| So please, we've made it very easy, very accessible for Americans. | ||
| All you need is an online visa. | ||
| It takes all of five minutes, maybe even less. | ||
| We've made it even easier. | ||
| You can actually get a visa on arrival. | ||
| So please go and visit Saudi Arabia in person. | ||
| And I guarantee you, all of these impressions will be changed. | ||
| And, you know, in what I do as a spokesperson, I wear many different hats. | ||
| Obviously, I deal with the media on a regular basis. | ||
| I do a lot of speaking engagements. | ||
| But one of the most rewarding parts of my job is actually accompanying delegations of Americans. | ||
| I do this about four or five times a year. | ||
| I probably traveled with 200 different Americans from different backgrounds and different walks of life. | ||
| Every time I've gone, the people who were on this visit, the people who've never been to Saudi Arabia, essentially pulled me aside and told me, Thank you so much for making this happen because this has completely changed my impressions of Saudi Arabia. | ||
| We have a lot more in common than we ever thought possible. | ||
| I'd love to end on that, but he did ask you about Jamal Khashoggi. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| And again, we've, and I think I said this the last time I was on your show, this was a heinous crime. | ||
| It was a violation not just of our laws, but it was also an egregious violation of our values. | ||
| The people who were behind it and perpetrated it were arrested, they were prosecuted, and they're all doing prison sentences. | ||
| And again, if you look-prince was not behind it, absolutely not. | ||
| And again, you have to, again, you don't need to be a scholar of Saudi Arabia's history, but I can say this with certainty: it did not represent who we are as a people, as a nation. | ||
| If you look at our history, we've never had anything like this happen before, and we're never going to have anything like this happen again. | ||
| That's Fahad Nazar. | ||
| He is the spokesperson of the Embassy of Saudi Arabia. | ||
| They're on the web at SaudiEmbassy.net. | ||
| Thank you so much for being on the program. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| Coming up, more of your phone calls in Open Forum. | ||
| Start calling in now. | ||
| It's 202-748-8000 for Democrats, 202-748-80001 for Republicans, and 202-748-80002 for Independents. | ||
|
unidentified
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This weekend, hear from Vietnam and Afghanistan Medal of Honor recipients Dwight Birdwell and Clinton Romashe about their wartime experiences after receiving the nation's highest military award for valor. | |
| On lectures in history, Hillsdale College history professor Mark Moyer explores the various schools of thought on the Vietnam War, focusing on debates over the war's necessity and whether the United States could have achieved victory on Real America. | ||
| Watch a 1960 Federal Emergency Management Agency film on how to build a fallout shelter in your home. | ||
| It was produced with the National Concrete Masonry Association and was originally titled Walt Builds a Family Fallout Shelter. | ||
| And how Speaker Mike Johnson presents the Congressional Gold Medal, the nation's highest civilian honor, to the 6th 888th Women's Army Corps Battalion for their contributions during World War II. | ||
| Known as the 6th 888, they were the first all-female, all-black unit to serve overseas, sorting male in Europe. | ||
| Exploring the American story, watch American History TV every weekend and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at c-span.org slash history. | ||
| Book TV, every Sunday on C-SPAN 2, features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. | ||
| Here's a look at what's coming up this weekend. | ||
| At 2:45 p.m. Eastern, Book TV presents coverage of the 2025 San Antonio Book Festival. | ||
| You'll hear author discussions on the Uvalde school shooting, Texas history, the impact of Jose Cuervo tequila on America-Mexico relations, and more. | ||
| And at 8 p.m. Eastern, attorney Christine Menitas, author of Why the World Doesn't Make Sense, argues that Americans are unknowingly giving up their freedom and sovereignty to the government, private institutions, and global organizations. | ||
| And then at 9 p.m., Jonathan Cohen with the American Academy of Arts and Sciences looks at the downside of legalized sports gambling, dominated today by companies like FanDuel and DraftKings with his book, Losing Big. | ||
| Watch Book TV every Sunday on C-SPAN 2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org. | ||
| Washington Journal continues. | ||
| Welcome back. | ||
| It is Open Forum until the end of the program. | ||
| And at the end of the program, we're going to be taking you to New York. | ||
| Take a look on your screen. | ||
| You see the cadets there at West Point Military Academy. | ||
| They are getting ready for their graduation, filling in there. | ||
| President Trump will be the commencement address speaker. | ||
| So he will be there, and we will carry that live from West Point Military Academy in New York starting at 10 a.m. Eastern. | ||
| That's right after this program here on C-SPAN. | ||
| You can also watch it on the app, C-SPANNOW, and online at c-span.org. | ||
| That's set to get underway in about 20 minutes. | ||
| And let's go to calls now for Open Forum. | ||
| Laura Spokane, Washington, Republican. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I'm calling because of my concern regarding the demonization of the Jewish people and of Israel. | ||
| And there's no concern. | ||
| I mean, they've been made out to be absolute monsters. | ||
| And that's not the case. | ||
| The actual legitimate facts of the case is that they're fighting for their lives there. | ||
| And this massacre that they're talking about wasn't started by the Israelis and the Jewish people. | ||
| And they've been there for 3,000 years. | ||
| But my other concern is, is the fraud that was committed by this administration that we're just now finding out about, that Biden hasn't been ever capable of being a president. | ||
| And that it was covered up and bureaucrats were making decisions for him that caused our nation and other nations a whole lot of harm. | ||
| And that's what concerns me. | ||
| But more than that, it's the murder of the Jewish kids, you know, and some Palestinian terrorist walks up and murders them for no reason right here in the U.S. | ||
| And this is, we are not that way. | ||
| And I just really resent the demonization of an innocent people that are fighting only to be able to live free. | ||
| And that murder, Laura, took place here in Washington, D.C. We'll talk to Kevin, who is in D.C. online for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Kevin. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I want to talk about the book, Original Sin by Jake Tapper. | ||
| Mark Thiessen wrote an article about it. | ||
| He said that the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. | ||
| And he said that Jake Tapper was one of the worst offenders for covering up fighters' memory issues. | ||
| And I'd like to add the other issues like Afghanistan return in the COVID lab origin. | ||
| So CNN boss was your boss, Sam Fais. | ||
| And he Also, it's on the board of the Georgetown University section that hires Anthony Fauci. | ||
| So, Anthony Fauci was Biden's chief medical advisor, and he should have said something about Biden's memory issues, but also the lab origin was covered up. | ||
| So, Sam has conflict of interest. | ||
| Sam Face, the former vice president of CNN and now the CEO of C-SPAN, why don't they have the U.S. right to know primary source documents from the U.S. government they got from FOA? | ||
| Why don't they invite U.S. right to know? | ||
| And the CNN guys are the Biden memory issue, the lab origin. | ||
| Got it, Kevin. | ||
| Sylvia in Etlin, Virginia, Independent Line. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, I was thinking about President Biden, and I think some of the conservative networks would actually make fun of him, like make him out of his, you know, a clown, and they just went on and on politically. | |
| And I think that hurt trying to figure out what was wrong with President Biden. | ||
| I don't think we should have been making, or anyone making fun of him. | ||
| And I think eventually it'll come out in the wash what was wrong with him. | ||
|
unidentified
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And we just need to pray for the family. | |
| Thank you so much. | ||
| All right. | ||
| And here's a portion of Vice President JD Vance. | ||
| He gave the commencement address yesterday before the graduates at the U.S. Naval Academy and talked about the change in approach to foreign policy with the new Trump administration. | ||
| Our leaders traded hard power for soft power. | ||
| We stopped making things, everything from cars to computers to the weapons of war, like the ships that guard our waters, and the weapons that you will use in the future. | ||
| Why do we do that? | ||
| Well, too many of us believed that economic integration would naturally lead to peace by making countries like the People's Republic of China more like the United States. | ||
| Over time, we were told the world would converge toward a uniform set of bland, secular, universal ideals, regardless of culture or country. | ||
| And those that didn't want to converge, well, our policymakers would make it their goal to force them by any means necessary. | ||
| So instead of devoting our energies to responding to the rise of near-peer competitors like China, our leaders pursued what they assumed would be easy jobs for the world's preeminent superpower. | ||
| How hard could it be to build a few democracies in the Middle East? | ||
| Well, almost impossibly hard, it turns out, and unbelievably costly. | ||
| And it wasn't our politicians who bore the consequences of such a profound miscalculation. | ||
| It was the American people, to the tune of trillions of dollars. | ||
| But more than anyone, it was born by the people who were in your shoes just a few short years ago, by our service members and their families. | ||
| The tens of thousands of warfighters who sacrificed precious time, energy, and in some cases, their very lives in the line of duty. | ||
| They are the ones who bore the costs of past failure. | ||
| Our leaders abandoned clearly stated strategic goals for lofty, often incoherent abstractions. | ||
| This is how, for example, we wound up chasing a $230 million peer in Gaza that worked for a grand total of 20 days while injuring over 60 American service members in the construction and maintenance of that pier. | ||
| Our government took its eye off the ball of great power competition and preparing to take on a peer adversary. | ||
| And instead, we devoted ourselves to sprawling, amorphous tasks. | ||
| like searching for new terrorists to take out while building up faraway regimes. | ||
| Now, I want to be clear. | ||
| The Trump administration has reversed course. | ||
| No more undefined missions. | ||
| No more open-ended conflicts. | ||
| We're returning to a strategy grounded in realism and protecting our core national interests. | ||
| That was the Vice President from yesterday. | ||
| We've got his full remarks on our website at c-span.org. | ||
| It is open forum. | ||
| I just want to show you the front page of the Wall Street Journal. | ||
| This Ukraine-Russia begin large prisoner exchange. | ||
| It says Ukrainian prisoners of war and civilians returned home Friday at the country's northern border with Russia on the first day of what is expected to be the largest swap of the war. | ||
| Each side is set to get back 1,000 people. | ||
| Picture is also on the front page of the New York Times. | ||
| Here is a husband and wife reunited after he was released in that prisoner swap with Russia. | ||
| Let's go to Anthony, Pikesville, Maryland. | ||
| Democrat, good morning, Anthony. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, good morning to you. | |
| Thank you for C-SPAN. | ||
| I would try and keep it focused on only two things this morning. | ||
| The first one is the unfortunate killing of the two young Jewish workers in Washington, D.C. | ||
| The young man who did the killing had a John Brown mentality, and unfortunately, like John Brown, it went nowhere and it didn't produce what he thought it would produce. | ||
| Actually, it went the other way. | ||
| And it's unfortunate that it happened like that. | ||
| The second thing is you've had on the air this morning about the situation in Afghanistan as far as the withdrawal is concerned. | ||
| I am really tired and sick of hearing about the errors that occurred at Cabal. | ||
| I was on duty April 1975 at Camp Lejeune when we made a withdrawal from Vietnam. | ||
| Master Sergeant Valdez and a detachment of 600 Marines were covering that withdrawal. | ||
| And their eyewitness report, which was basically ignored, indicated that the North Vietnamese was coming in with a fresh can of kick butt, and they meant to do what they did, and they did what they did. | ||
| There was no way we can look at coming out of Cabal clean and free. | ||
| It was just an unfortunate situation, but that is how war is. | ||
| It's not coming out of Berlin in World War II or even the 38th parallel of Korea. | ||
| We need to get over it and move on to the next thing. | ||
| I hope Vance is correct. | ||
| We have no more open-end conflicts into the future. | ||
| I thank you again for the moment and thank you, C-SPAN, for being there. | ||
| Dylan is a Republican in Sturgis, South Dakota. | ||
| Good morning, Dylan. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, good morning. | |
| Thank you for taking my call. | ||
| I'm a disabled veteran, and there's a lot of us around here by Fort Meade. | ||
| And I was just going to say that when I was in Vietnam, there was no conference. | ||
| Sorry, we're losing you, Dylan. | ||
| When you were in Vietnam, there was no what? | ||
|
unidentified
|
There wasn't any color line. | |
| I think like we all talked together for the same thing, you know. | ||
| And I appreciate you folks. | ||
| So you have a good day. | ||
| Thanks, Dylan. | ||
| And regarding the killing of the two Israeli embassy staffers, the Washington Times has this headline: A suspect faces death penalty in killing of two Israeli embassy staffers in D.C. | ||
| They said he's a left-wing activist, and he chanted free, free Palestine during his arrest. | ||
| Keith and St. Petersburg, Florida, Independent Line. | ||
| Hi, Keith. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning. | |
| And I have a responsibility as a C-SPAN news consumer to provide clarity to the issues that are being discussed. | ||
| And I have to say that the callers, generally speaking, fall down on that responsibility. | ||
| And so I would just note that it's clear to me in terms of clarity that the origin story of anti-Semitism in this latest rounds in the last few years comes from political leadership on one side and not so much on the other. | ||
| And one side that is promoting anti-Semitism is the left. | ||
| And their leaders do it quite openly, quite obviously, quite explicitly. | ||
| And they defend and oppose Israeli defense and of its own country. | ||
| And even when attacked by Hamas and through Iran, they defend and apologize for the attackers. | ||
| So it's just like not overlooking the obvious. | ||
| And I'm not, I'm independent. | ||
| I wouldn't identify with any party cover. | ||
| But I would like to add that it's our responsibility as listeners, news consumers, to provide clarity and not to repeat talking points and politicians. | ||
| All right, Keith. | ||
| And on the line for Democrats in Vincent, Ohio. | ||
| Carolyn, good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I had two things I was going to say, and they were taken care of by you, Mami, so thank you. | ||
| But I was going to advise people to listen to JD Vance's commencement speech because I thought it was fantastic. | ||
| And he helped me understand Memorial Day so much better about people that have died in war. | ||
| But I also want to thank the veterans that I'm hearing. | ||
| That was the second thing I was going to bring up that I have over the years just so appreciated hearing from the veterans because I miss my father. | ||
| He was a retired colonel in the Marines. | ||
| And by listening to the two gentlemen before me that were, I think, both in Vietnam, it just helps me to bring back memories. | ||
| It's just really, I hope they continue all weekend and into Monday talking about their stories because I never did with my dad. | ||
| He just really didn't want to talk about it. | ||
| And I understand. | ||
| I understand why he did that. | ||
| But the last thing I'll bring up that's different, I just want to tell the family of, I believe his name is Gerald Connolly, and he passed away from cancer. | ||
| And I had called in, and I had said that was exactly what my husband had, and it was the same outcome. | ||
| So sympathy for all his family and friends. | ||
| And thanks to C-SPAN for listening. | ||
| All right, Carolyn. | ||
| We'll talk to Frank next in Holden, Massachusetts, Independent Line. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, hi. | |
| Thank you very much. | ||
| I'm a first-time caller, and I listen to you all the time. | ||
| I think this thing with Biden going on was a terrible affront to all of us, it voters, and that's why I'm now an independent voter. | ||
| However, the Democratic Party and the Republican National Committee Party are all having being run by these educated idiots. | ||
| They are making their plans, they're running the place. | ||
| The actual people actually have feet on the ground. | ||
| And until the Democrats turn around and say, you know, so what if we lost some votes because somebody doesn't like some particular person's ideas on his sexuality or law and order of this time? | ||
| I'm 80 years old. | ||
| And when you talk about the Lauren Ottawa issue, Lauren Ottawa in my day, when you robbed a grocery store or a drugstore, you went to jail. | ||
| Didn't say, oh, I'm sorry, and make nice and let them walk up with the basket. | ||
| The whole country has gone too far to the left, too far to the right. | ||
| We've got all these maniacs on both sides ruining this country. | ||
| The people in the middle are taking it in the neck. | ||
| And I just thought, as a Vietnam veteran, and this is Memorial Day, I have to say this with my friends who want to all go with us. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| Here's Dorothy and Democrat Omaha, Nebraska. | ||
| Good morning, Dorothy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I just feel that this world is completing biblical prophecy of the hatred that we have for one another. | ||
| I wanted to read a passage out of the Bible, and it says, I know thy works. | ||
| Behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it, for thou hast a little strength and has kept my word and has not denied my name. | ||
| Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews and are not, but do lie. | ||
| Behold, I will make them to come and worship before my feet, and I know that I have loved thee. | ||
| And I just want to say that if we continue to hate, we're fulfilling prophecy. | ||
| And that God said, How can you say that you love me who you have not seen and hate your brother? | ||
| And that's all I have to say. | ||
| Here's Nick in Rochester, Minnesota, Independent Line. | ||
| Nick, you're next. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I just wanted to make a comment on something that I heard on the previous guest from Saudi Arabia. | ||
| The fact is that the U.S. is number one in the world in oil production currently, and Saudi Arabia is number two in the world. | ||
| It's also interesting to note that Saudi Arabia is moving to a tourist economy, if you will, and that, oh, by the way, they're looking to be 50% renewable by 2030, I think it is. | ||
| So, in other words, the United States is going to be the largest producer of buggy whips in the world in a couple of years, thanks to the current administration. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Ron, Johnstown, Pennsylvania, Democrat, good morning, John. |