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Government Accountability Office on reports highlighting numerous aging and unsustainable air traffic control systems and recommendations for modernization. | |
| Also, Harvard Economics professor Kenneth Rogoff talks about the impact that Trump tariffs are having on global markets and his book, Our Dollar, Your Problem. | ||
| Washington Journal is next. | ||
| Join the conversation. | ||
| Yesterday, from the Vatican, the Catholic Church made history, electing the first American pope in its 2,000-year history. | ||
| Pope Leo XIV, as he wishes to be called, will lead the 1.4 billion Roman Catholics from around the world. | ||
| This morning, your reaction to the election of the first American Pope. | ||
| Here's how you can join the conversation. | ||
| If you live in the eastern central part of the country, dial in at 202-748-8000. | ||
| Mountain Pacific, 202-748-8001. | ||
| If you want to text, you can do so at 202-748-8003. | ||
| Include your first name, city, and state, or post on facebook.com/slash C-SPAN and on X with the handle at C-SPANWJ. | ||
| Pope Leo XIV, the 267th Pope, held Mass for the first time at the Vatican today. | ||
|
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Here's a little bit of his homily. | |
| Even today, there are many settings in which the Christian faith is considered absurd, meant for weak people or stupid people, settings where other securities are preferred, like technology, or money, or success, or power, or pleasure. | ||
| These are contexts where it's not easy to preach the gospel, where it's not easy to bear witness to the truth, where believers are mocked, opposed, despised, or at best tolerated and pitied. | ||
| Yet, precisely for this reason, they are the places where our missionary outreach is desperately needed. | ||
| A lack of faith is often tragically accompanied by the loss of meaning and life, the neglect of mercy, appalling violations of human dignity, the crisis of the family, and so many other wounds that our society suffers. | ||
| Even today, there are not lacking settings in which Jesus, although appreciated as a man, is reduced to a kind of charismatic leader or a superman. | ||
| This is true not only among non-believers, but also among many baptized Christians, who thus end up living at this level in a state of practical atheism. | ||
| This is the world that has been entrusted to us. | ||
| Pope Leo XIV holding his first Mass as pontiff. | ||
| Joining us this morning is Kurt Martins. | ||
| He's a professor of canon law at Catholic University of America. | ||
| At Kurt Martins, what is the significance of the first Mass? | ||
|
unidentified
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Good morning. | |
| Well, the significance of the first Mass is that this is the first time that as the Roman pontiff, as the Bishop of Rome, he celebrates Mass with the cardinals. | ||
| The significance is not so much in the Mass as such, but in what he says in the homily. | ||
| Typically, a homily in this Mass, a Mass that concludes the conclave. | ||
| Typically, such a homily gives a little bit of an indication of the direction of the pontificates. | ||
| What I thought was interesting was that he gave his homily in Italian, just like Pope Francis did in 2013. | ||
| Prior to that, this homily in this Mass was given in Latin, and so we all had to scramble afterwards to kind of read the Latin and brush up on our Latin. | ||
| So it's now in Italian. | ||
| What is interesting is that this homily is going to be analyzed in the coming hours and days and kind of scrutinized to see do we find any clues, indications of what direction he's going to take the church in. | ||
| Do we have any clues already based on the conclave, how many times they voted, and just what we heard initially from this new pope on the balcony of the church yesterday when he gave his first remarks as the pope, and then what you heard a little bit today in this first mass. | ||
|
unidentified
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So yeah, I think uh, we will have a pope. | |
| First of all the the, the name, Leo the 14 I almost said the 13th because i'm used to the 13th, i'm getting used to the new number uh, Leo the 14th. | ||
| That the the, the taking of the name is already an indication. | ||
| It refers to Leo Xi, the social teaching of the church uh, being close to people. | ||
| So that's one, that's one indication. | ||
| When he appeared on the balcony fairly quickly because the voting went clearly very fast um, there was no second day of the conclave. | ||
| There was no third day of the conclave, as some had feared. | ||
| It's going to take long. | ||
| It wasn't long at all. | ||
| It was about the same as Benedict and Francis. | ||
| When he appeared on the balcony of St. Peter's Basilica, he was very nervous that you could see, and very emotional, but his message there was a message of openness, everyone is welcome. | ||
| He used that image of the colonnades of Bernini, on St. Peter's Square, that actually look like the open arms of the church of Christ, and so I thought that was quite an interesting image and quite powerful, and I think he's going, I expect from what he said yesterday, from what he said today, and it's it's dangerous I need to caution you, | ||
| it's dangerous to kind of create expectations right now but it seems that that style and that message of Pope Francis is going to continue. | ||
| He was also mentioning synodality as a project to continue, a church walking together. | ||
| He was quoting Saint Augustine. | ||
| He's a, he's a son of Saint Augustine. | ||
| With you, I am a Christian, for you I am a bishop, walking together towards our eternal destiny and obviously the gospel is his guide for that. | ||
| When you see the color red, as we did during the conclave, and then the first sight of the new pope yesterday, what is the significance? | ||
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Well, The color red is obviously the color of the Pope, of the Cardinals, Sorry, I'm sorry. | |
| It's a color that the Cardinals wear during the conclave. | ||
| The color red was the color that was used during the Mass, the Mass Vestments for the Holy Spirit, because that's the color that we use for those events. | ||
| When he appeared for the first time in white on the balcony of St. Peter's Basilica, it was a little bit getting used to that because you were used to seeing someone as a cardinal in red, and now all of a sudden he appears in white. | ||
| So that was quite something to get used to, but we'll get used to that very quickly. | ||
| What does pontiff mean? | ||
| Well, pontiff comes from the Latin word pontifex. | ||
| And what is pontifex? | ||
| It's a builder of bridges. | ||
| And so I think if you're looking at what he's doing, if you're looking at his past as a member of the Order of St. Augustine, as a missionary in South America, as a bishop in South America, and then as someone who was in Rome as the superior of his order, but then also as one of the closest collaborators of Pope Francis, | ||
| I think that word pontifex is most likely something that he's going to use, that he's going to do. | ||
| He's going to be a builder of bridges. | ||
| I thought that was also something that resonated in his message on the balcony of St. Peter's Basilica. | ||
| Again, I would like to be cautioning us that we don't read too much in all of that yet, but I see some signs. | ||
| What are the factions within the Catholic Church? | ||
| And what was the reaction from those factions to the election of Robert Prevost as Pope Palo? | ||
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unidentified
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I don't like to talk about factions in the church because in the church we are all Catholics and we're all called to live like Christians, follow the gospel, and also follow the teaching of the church. | |
| There was obviously a great reaction here in the United States. | ||
| Everybody was happy. | ||
| The first American-born pontiff, the first American-born Pope. | ||
| But you saw also some criticism. | ||
| Some people went after him for some of his retweets of his Twitter account. | ||
| It hasn't been verified if that was his Twitter account, but still, where he retweeted some articles or statements emphasizing our openness to those in need, Matthew 25, that is, and thus criticizing some of the immigration policies. | ||
| And that, of course, sparked some criticism from one side. | ||
| There were also some people who criticized him for his handling of sexual abuse claims in the church. | ||
| And so you have abuse victims who weren't too happy with that new election, with the new pontiff. | ||
| And so you're going to have things like that. | ||
| Every pontiff will spark some criticism. | ||
| And it's going to be quite a challenge normally in the beginning to unify, to make sure that people get around And kind of follow the hierarchy. | ||
| But ultimately, he is the Pope, he is our Pope, he is the Bishop of Rome. | ||
| That's why he's the Pope. | ||
| And he's on the top of the hierarchy. | ||
| So we have to be joyful for this new pontiff. | ||
| And there is actually a lot to be joyful for. | ||
| What's kind of interesting is that this was an intense two weeks, right? | ||
| We lost our father as Catholics. | ||
| The Bishop of Rome, Pope Francis died. | ||
| There was mourning. | ||
| Then there was the intensity of the building up to the conclave. | ||
| And yesterday was just a release of all those emotions because we have again a leader, a bishop of Rome, and we have again that father figure. | ||
| So I think that's an occasion for a lot of joy. | ||
| And for the rest, I think while people have all kinds of reactions, I think what is important is to embrace that, that there is a new Pope and to listen to what he has to say. | ||
| And I think that is also what he was saying in that when he was emphasizing the synodal process. | ||
| What is a synodal process? | ||
| We listen to one another. | ||
| Sometimes these days, because of our fast communication methods, we already talk before the other is done talking and we don't listen. | ||
| And I think that's going to be an important thing to do in the days, weeks, months, and years ahead. | ||
| Is the Pope also considered a head of state? | ||
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unidentified
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Absolutely. | |
| So what was interesting when I heard yesterday, oh, our first American Pope, of course, it's great for us to celebrate that. | ||
| He also has apparently Peruvian nationality, but now he's the head of state of Vatican City-states. | ||
| So he has a third nationality. | ||
| Typically, popes keep their original passports, but he is now a head of state of another state. | ||
| And so that too plays a role. | ||
| That is also one of his roles. | ||
| That's also why he's when he makes foreign visits, why he is received with the honors due to a foreign head of state. | ||
| And his interaction with world leaders. | ||
| What is his responsibility there? | ||
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Well, that's the responsibility of, we always say the Vatican, but it's actually the Holy See that acts in the international arena. | |
| And so his responsibility there is to continue the mission of the Holy See, and that is being above parties, being a neutral arbiter. | ||
| When we talk about the Holy See in international relations, the Holy See is not a mega power that has nuclear force behind it. | ||
| It's what we call soft power in international relationships. | ||
| And you saw that, for instance, at the funeral of Pope Francis. | ||
| What happened there? | ||
| In the Basilica of St. Peter's, an impromptu meeting was organized away from the cameras between President Trump and President Zelensky. | ||
| You'll see typically at the inauguration of the new Roman pontiff, that's going to be sometime soon, when he celebrates his first Mass, marking the beginning of his pontificates. | ||
| You'll see all those world leaders gathered there again. | ||
| And so he brings people together. | ||
| And that's what is important internationally for the Holy See. | ||
| The Holy See never takes sides. | ||
| The Holy See preaches the gospel and also tries to bring people together, make peace, Have people, have conversations, and that kind of things. | ||
| Kurt Martins, professor of canon law at Catholic University of America, thank you for that insight this morning. | ||
|
unidentified
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You're very welcome. | |
| Thank you. | ||
| Now, let's turn to all of you and get your reaction to Pope Leo XIV elected as the first American Pope, 69 years old, and will serve as the 267th pontiff. | ||
| Ira in Upper Marlborough, Maryland, good morning to you. | ||
| You're first. | ||
|
unidentified
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Good morning. | |
| Glory to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, for Pope Leo XIV coming from the United States of America, the most powerful nation on earth. | ||
| So he should, majority of people in this country are Christians, and there are many Christians around the world. | ||
| So we don't have to be Catholic to actually look up to him to actually help the rest of the world that is suffering. | ||
| If he could really help the United States with its powerful force to work for justice in the world, that will be helpful. | ||
| Sometimes I sit here in tears on the television and watch the way our weapons are wreaking destruction in Palestine. | ||
| I look at Gaza, I cry, why did they do wrong to deserve this? | ||
| And we are supplying them with weapons to be killing these innocent children, destroying churches, destroying mosques, destroying educational system. | ||
| If there is any way our Holy Father can appeal to the president who has said he's a Christian to stop this carnage that we are causing in the Middle East. | ||
| And Ira, that's what you see the role of the Pope as someone who should do just that. | ||
| As our guest was just talking about, soft power, trying to convince other world leaders to choose peace. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yes, that's not only his role. | |
| He being a U.S. citizen and he has an international status because of his position. | ||
| All Christian churches, whether they are Protestants or Greek Orthodox Church or whichever type of church, all of us will actually look at him as our brother in the Lord. | ||
| It's not just for the Catholic Church. | ||
| He's our brother in the Lord. | ||
| Therefore, he should be speaking on behalf of the entire community in the world. | ||
| All right, Ira. | ||
| Let me go to James, who's in Pell City, Alabama. | ||
| James, it's your turn. | ||
| Your reaction to the election of an American Pope. | ||
|
unidentified
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I say he's a Peruvian Pope, being American Pope. | |
| But it don't matter all the conclave for us to pick the next highest pedophile in the world. | ||
| So good luck, everybody. | ||
| Steve in Fayetteville, North Carolina. | ||
| Steve. | ||
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unidentified
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Yes, I would just like to congratulate the Catholics on this new Pope, and I hope everything works out for them. | |
| Thank you. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Steve in Fayetteville, North Carolina. | ||
| You heard Kurt Martins of Catholic University talking about some criticism of this new post, specifically his social media posts. | ||
| The Wall Street Journal features one of those posts in their reporting this morning, talking about JD Vance had said in a Fox interview in January, quote, there is a Christian concept that you love your family and then you love your neighbor and then you love your community and then you love your fellow citizens. | ||
| And then after that, prioritize the rest of the world. | ||
| Now, Robert Prévost, who is now Pope Leo, posted in February, JD Vance is wrong. | ||
| Jesus doesn't ask us to rank our love for others. | ||
| We're getting your reaction to the first American Pope elected at the Vatican yesterday by the College of Cardinals. | ||
| There were over 130 cardinals under the age of 80 that participated in the secret voting that took place inside the Sistine Chapel. | ||
| White smoke indicated that they came together and elected a pope by two-thirds majority, and we saw that yesterday on the fourth vote. | ||
| President Trump also talking about the election of the pope. | ||
| We'll show you that, but first want to remind you of the lines this morning. | ||
| Eastern central part of the country, dial in at 202-748-8000. | ||
| Mountain Pacific, 202-748-8001. | ||
| We're getting your reaction to the first American Pope this morning. | ||
| And you can also text if you don't want to call at 202-748-8003 or post on facebook.com slash C-SPAN or on X with the Handle at C-SPANWJ. | ||
| Here's the reaction from President Trump to the first American Pope. | ||
|
unidentified
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They have already spoken to us and we'll see what happens. | |
| But again, to have the pope from the United States of America, that's a great honor. | ||
| It's a great honor. | ||
| I'm watching and they said he's from America. | ||
| I said, that's great. | ||
| President Trump at the White House yesterday responding to the Pope being elected there in the Vatican yesterday. | ||
| Take a look at some of the headlines from around the country. | ||
| Let's begin with his home city. | ||
| The Pope is from Chicago. | ||
| The Pope is the Chicago Sun-Times front page. | ||
| Las Vegas Sun, an American pontiff. | ||
| Here is the Detroit Free Press. | ||
| An American is selected as Pope. | ||
| In the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, first American Pope in its 2,000-year history, this follows the first Latin American Pope when Pope Francis was elected the last time around. | ||
| Shirley in Newcastle, Pennsylvania. | ||
| Shirley, let's hear from you. | ||
|
unidentified
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Well, I know it's a beautiful thing. | |
| Everyone's so happy that we got a Pope from the United States. | ||
| That's beautiful. | ||
| But the only thing I'm concerned about in listening to this, he wants blessings for same-sex couples. | ||
| And honey, in the Bible, it says they will never enter the kingdom of heaven. | ||
| So I hope he changes that. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| All right, Shirley, what? | ||
| Yeah, you bet. | ||
| Let me read from the New York Times this morning. | ||
| In the post, referring to a previous post by when he was then Robert Prévost, he's now the Pope. | ||
| In the past, Pope Leo XIV took a different tone on LGBTQ people than his predecessor, who famously said, who am I to judge when asked about gay clerics? | ||
| In a 2012 address to bishops before Pope Francis's off-cited words, Cardinal Prévost lamented that Western news media and popular culture fostered sympathy for beliefs and practices that are at odds with the gospel. | ||
| He cited the homosexual lifestyle and alternative families compromised of same-sex partners and their adopted children. | ||
| As bishop, he opposed a government plan to add teachings on gender in schools. | ||
| The promotion of gender ideology is confusing because it seeks to create genders that don't exist, he told local news media. | ||
| Cardinal Prebos, like many of the others who ultimately elected him, has drawn criticism over his dealings with priests accused of sexual abuse. | ||
| In Chicago, advocates for victims of sexual abuse say that his office did not warn a nearby Catholic school that a priest who church leaders determined had abused young boys for years was sheltered in a monastery nearby starting in 2000. | ||
| So, some of the criticism and observations of this new pope. | ||
| Lawrence in Elk Grove Village, Illinois. | ||
| Lawrence, your turn. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, my comments on the new pope are too early to tell because he just became pope. | |
| I mean, you can look back at some of his early life and some of his criticisms. | ||
|
unidentified
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A couple of them, this judge not let ye be judged. | |
| Both Pope Francis and this new pope don't understand that biblical scripture because it doesn't tell you not to judge, it tells you to judge the same way you want to be judged. | ||
|
unidentified
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If you read the whole scripture, not a line, it tells you you should judge. | |
| There's a whole book in the Bible called Book of Judges. | ||
| But anyway, you have to judge good versus be a bad judge. | ||
| That's all it's telling you. | ||
| It's funny that the previous Pope, Francis, had judgments about everything, capitalism. | ||
| He had judges, he made judgments about immigration. | ||
| But when they asked him about gay marriage, then he hid behind biblical scripture, saying, Judge not. | ||
| What a coward he was, in a way. | ||
| And I hope this new pope is not that way. | ||
| I had a grandfather who went to the seminary in Italy. | ||
| He didn't finish because he left in the early 1900s to escape what was coming. | ||
| And he didn't become a priest. | ||
| He came here, obviously, and became my grandfather. | ||
| But he was a good man and went to the seminary. | ||
| The previous pope went to the seminary in Argentina, knows nothing about economics, nothing about world history. | ||
| And in a way, he was kind of biblically and historically ignorant and kind of hid behind scripture when possible. | ||
| And the thing about JD Vance, actually, if you look at the Ten Commandments, there are no commandments that tell you to love except the first four that tell you to love God. | ||
| Other than that, there's no commandments that tell you to love. | ||
| It doesn't even tell you to love your parents. | ||
| It tells you to honor them because they gave you life. | ||
| But there's no commandments that tell you that. | ||
| All right, Lawrence, I want to read from the Wall Street Journal's editorial as an American Pope, Leo XIV. | ||
| And they write this this morning. | ||
| Perhaps the conclave saw that in Cardinal Prabos, or maybe he was a compromise candidate between progressive and conservative factions. | ||
| Whatever the case, we join Americans of all faiths or none in welcoming Pope Leo and wishing him Godspeed for the work ahead. | ||
| We have covered the papacy here on C-SPAN over the years. | ||
| If you go to our website, c-span.org, you'll see video coverage of the papacy going back many years, and you can find it all there at your fingertips. | ||
| Mike in Youngstown, Ohio. | ||
| Mike, good morning to you. | ||
|
unidentified
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Good morning. | |
| How are you today? | ||
| I want to say God bless America. | ||
| I hope that this new Pope can bring some peace to our country, which is much too divided and there's too much hatred here between the political parties. | ||
| And it just scares me. | ||
| And like I said, I hope he could bring some peace here. | ||
| And thank you for your time. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Mike of the Wall Street Journal reports that the choice of Pope Leo XIV upended the long-standing assumption that a cardinal from the U.S. was all but unelectable for the cardinals of a church that has in recent times been inclined to balance against U.S. global power. | ||
| That's what they write this morning in their newspaper about the election of an American to serve in this position. | ||
| It also says in the front page of the Washington Post that the naming himself Pope Leo XIV, a title that nods to the social teachings of the church, the man born Robert Pravos, began what could be a long new chapter in a divided faith. | ||
| From the balcony, Leo acknowledged the late Francis, a patron who had elevated him from a priest who spent two decades as a missionary in Peru to one of the powerful positions in the Vatican, where he oversaw the promotion of the church's hierarchy. | ||
| That from the Washington Post, and they go on to talk about the significance of an American with the election of the first North American pontiff, came immediately after the death of the first Latin American Pope, and it signaled a certain relinquishing of papal authority from Europe, the continent whose popes had dominated the ancient and modern church and a region where the faith is now flagging. | ||
| Your reaction to all of that from the newspapers this morning and the election of the first American Pope. | ||
| Let's go to some of the first remarks from Pope Leo XIV yesterday on the balcony of St. Peter's Basilica. | ||
|
unidentified
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And we still have the sound in our ears, but that's the weak voice of Pope Francis, who is blessing Rome here. | |
| We have that fresh in our minds, in our hearts, in our ears, hearing his voice who was blessing Rome and giving his blessing to the world on that morning, on that day of Easter Sunday. | ||
| Allow me to continue that same blessing. | ||
| God loves everyone. | ||
| Evil will not prevail. | ||
| We are all in the hands of God. | ||
| So without fear, united. | ||
| Hand in hand with God and among ourselves. | ||
| We go forward. | ||
| We are disciples of Christ. | ||
| Christ goes before us. | ||
| The world needs his light. | ||
| Humanity needs him as the bridge between God and his love. | ||
| The Pope's first appearance on the balcony of St. Peter's Basilica, speaking to the throng of more than 100,000 gathered in St. Peter's Square at the Vatican yesterday, their first sight in the world's first sight of the new Pope, Pope Leo XIV. | ||
| Reaction from lawmakers. | ||
| Here is Speaker Mike Johnson on X. Congratulations to Pope Leo XIV. | ||
| May God bless the first American papacy in these historic days. | ||
| And from Congressman Robert Garcia as a Catholic and a Peruvian American, I wish Pope Leo XIV strength as he steps into his role as a global and spiritual leader. | ||
| He has demonstrated that he believes in justice for the poor and immigrants. | ||
| May his leadership reflect these ideals as he spreads peace across the world. | ||
| And Robin Kelly, Pope Leo, grew up in Dalton, right here in the second district. | ||
| I wish the Pope wisdom and integrity as he leads the church toward greater inclusion, stronger faith, and love for all. | ||
| And JD Vance, congratulations to Leo XIV, the first American Pope on his election. | ||
| I'm sure millions of American Catholics and other Christians will pray for his successful work leading the church. | ||
| May God bless him. | ||
| Marie in Baltimore. | ||
| Good morning to you, Marie. | ||
| Your reaction. | ||
|
unidentified
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Good morning. | |
| Can you hear me? | ||
| We can. | ||
|
unidentified
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The only reason I see that they picked this man for a Pope, and he's from the United States, is that the United States is in a decline. | |
| If you look at the big picture, the leader of our country, who's supposed to be the greatest leader of the world, we have a sexual abuser and a felon as a president. | ||
| We would have never 20 years ago picked a man like that to be a leader. | ||
| They put him in there to try to probably make him a little bit more kinder because Donald Trump appears to be one of the most hateful presidents in my lifetime that I have ever seen. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Marie in Baltimore, her thoughts this morning. | ||
| We'll leave the conversation there. | ||
| We are going to take a short break and we're going to come back. | ||
| We're going to share many more headlines with you this morning. | ||
| We'll be in an open forum so you can continue talking about the election of the first American Pope and any other public policy or political issue. | ||
| There are the lines on your screen. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
| As Mike said before, I happened to listen to him. | ||
|
unidentified
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He was on C-SPAN 1. | |
| That's a big upgrade, right? | ||
| But I've read about it in the history books. | ||
| I've seen the C-SPAN footage. | ||
| If it's a really good idea, present it in public view on C-SPAN. | ||
| Every single time I tuned in on TikTok or C-SPAN or YouTube or anything, there were tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people watching. | ||
|
unidentified
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I went home after the speech and I turned on C-SPAN. | |
| I was on C-SPAN just this week. | ||
| To the American people, now is the time to tune in to C-SPAN. | ||
| They had something $2.50 a gallon. | ||
|
unidentified
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I saw on television a little while ago in between my watching my great friends on C-SPAN. | |
| C-SPAN is televising this right now live. | ||
| So we are not just speaking to Los Angeles, we are speaking to the country. | ||
| Washington Journal continues. | ||
| Welcome back and good morning on this Friday morning. | ||
| If you're just joining us, we're going to be in open forum here for the next 30 minutes until the top of the hour. | ||
| Lots of news to share with you this morning from the papers and debates that are happening here in Washington. | ||
| So any public policy debate, political issue on your mind, you can share with us this morning what is significant to you. | ||
| We want to hear from you. | ||
| So dial in this morning, Democrats 202-748-8000. | ||
| Republicans 202-748-8001. | ||
| And independence, 202-748-8002. | ||
| Remember, you can text at 202-748-8003. | ||
| Include your first name, city, and state. | ||
| You can also go to facebook.com/slash C-SPAN or on X with the handle at C-SPANWJ. | ||
| Let's begin with that announcement from the White House on the first trade deal since the President increased tariffs on so-called Liberation Day at the beginning of April. | ||
| Yesterday, the President announcing a new trade deal with the UK. | ||
| Here's what he had to say. | ||
| The deal includes billions of dollars of increased market access for American exports, especially in agriculture, dramatically increasing access for American beef, ethanol, and virtually all of the products produced by our great farmers. | ||
| And our Secretary, as you know, of Agriculture is here, Brooke. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| Thank you, Mr. Day. | ||
|
unidentified
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Thank you, sir. | |
| You'll let the farmers know. | ||
| In addition, the UK will reduce or eliminate numerous non-tariff barriers that unfairly discriminated against American products. | ||
| But this is now turning out, I think, really to be a great deal for both countries because it'll be really great for the UK also. | ||
| So they're opening up the country. | ||
| Their country is a little closed, and we appreciate that. | ||
| They'll also be fast-tracking American goods through their customs process, so our exports go to a very, very quick form of approval, and there won't be any red tape. | ||
| Things are going to move very quickly both ways. | ||
| The final details are being written up in the coming weeks. | ||
| We'll have it all very conclusive, but the actual deal is a very conclusive one. | ||
| We think just about everything's been approved. | ||
| So good for both countries. | ||
| And we'll also receive new market access for American chemicals, machinery, and many other industrial products that weren't allowed. | ||
| And they'll end up getting products that they'll be able to price. | ||
| And if they like them better, and we make great products, they'll be buying those products, but they were not available in the UK. | ||
| Furthermore, in a historic step, the deal includes plans that will bring the United Kingdom into the economic security alignment with the United States. | ||
| That's the first of its kind. | ||
| So we have a big economic security blanket, and that's very important. | ||
| And we feel very, very comfortable with that because it's been a great ally, truly one of our great allies. | ||
| I mean, a lot of people say our greatest ally. | ||
| I don't want to insult people by saying that, but I can say it's certainly one of our greatest and right at the top. | ||
| And they're the first one we're talking about. | ||
| And by the way, we have many meetings planned today and tomorrow. | ||
| And every country wants to be making deals. | ||
| President Trump from the Oval Office yesterday announcing the first trade deal of his administration. | ||
| The Wall Street Journal frames it this way. | ||
| The pact, which appeared to have been put together hastily by the U.S. and UK officials, is fairly limited in scope. | ||
| The Trump administration agreed to roll back tariffs imposed on British steel and automobiles in exchange for purchasing Boeing jets and giving U.S. farmers greater access to U.S. markets. | ||
| Under the deal, most UK goods will still be subject to the global 10% tariff the U.S. imposed on all countries in April. | ||
| But UK steel and aluminum will be exempt from the U.S.'s 25% levy, and UK car tariffs will be lowered. | ||
| You can react to that trade deal announced by the President and potentially other trade deals that could come about in the second term of President Trump. | ||
| Trey in Alacott City, Maryland, Democratic College. | ||
| Trey, what's on your mind? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| Thank you for taking my call. | ||
| I wish this book the greatest success. | ||
| But as an educator in the United States of history, I think it's important, at least at some point, we need to talk about the crimes of the papacy. | ||
| For example, the enslavement of Africans and throughout the African diaspora. | ||
| And that brings me to the second and final point. | ||
| We haven't quite when it comes to the Pope or the papacy or the Catholic Church when it comes to the United States. | ||
| Everybody kicks the can. | ||
| Oh, that's not our issue. | ||
| We're not responsible for that. | ||
| But there was the greatest Holocaust that has ever been perpetrated against humanity against African people, and particularly African Americans. | ||
| And there's nothing to be done with it. | ||
| And it's just mind-boggling that in 2025, we haven't, we acknowledge our tone in words, but not in action. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Train Alacott, City, Maryland, with his thoughts. | ||
| We'll go to Albuquerque, New Mexico. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello, good morning. | |
| Thank you for C-SPAN. | ||
| So I'm going to complain because I've had it with Alphabet, which is Google Maps. | ||
| They've been hiding the Chinese naval buildup. | ||
| You can get on there and look, and, you know, they're hiding it like they're hiding the ice mountain in an article and all that. | ||
| They're also hiding the island buildup. | ||
| And those islands aren't built to last. | ||
| They're built for war. | ||
| And they say Rome has a long memory. | ||
| And that's because when you go around kicking ass, you got to remember whose ass you kicked. | ||
| Thanks. | ||
| We'll go to Lou, Tampa, Florida. | ||
| Lou, good morning. | ||
| Open forum. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, hi, Greta. | |
| Good to see you. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
| Thank you for everything you're doing up there in Washington and for the country. | ||
| You know, I want to mention a couple things. | ||
| This chess game in Ukraine, China's involved. | ||
| Of course, they're sending North Korean troops over there. | ||
| Okay, that's their buddies. | ||
| And, you know, they have equal ideology with North Korea. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| And nothing happens in North Korea without a nod from China. | ||
| Also, with Trump, right? | ||
| They just want to cut him to pieces, cut him to pieces, right? | ||
| And he's doing a great job. | ||
| And I say thank you for Pope Leo. | ||
| And he's going to help bring peace around the world. | ||
| We need peace. | ||
| And that UN resolution 242, people need to recognize each other in the Middle East. | ||
| And God bless you, Greta. | ||
| Thank you very much for your time today. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| Lou, let me ask you, why do you think that the new Pope is responsible for or should play the role of spreading peace? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, I think all religions, the bottom line is they want peace. | |
| You know, we have a war machine in this world, but there has to be some ground rules and stuff. | ||
| I don't like what's going on. | ||
| Israel, we have to support Israel, definitely, 100%. | ||
| But it's just, I don't know. | ||
| Some way there has to be a ceasefire, some way. | ||
| Well, Lou, you may be interested because you mentioned Ukraine at the top of your comments. | ||
| The President of Ukraine sent out this on X. Congratulations to His Holiness Pope Leo XIV on his election to the See of St. Peter and the beginning of his pontificate. | ||
| Ukraine deeply values the Holy See's consistent position in upholding international law, condemning the Russian Federation's military aggression against Ukraine, and protecting the rights of innocent civilians. | ||
| At this decisive moment for our country, we hope for the continued moral and spiritual support of the Vatican and Ukraine's efforts to restore justice and achieve a lasting peace. | ||
| I wish His Holiness Leo XIV wisdom, inspiration, and strength, both spiritual and physical, in carrying out his noble mission. | ||
| Caroline in Alliance Ohio Democratic Caller. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| Morning. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
| Well, my worry is what's happening to science and the support of education in the United States. | ||
| In the United States, one of our great strengths is our education system and the research and the ideas that come out of the colleges and universities. | ||
| And stopping grants to scientists is going to set us back for years. | ||
| Well, not set us back so much as let other countries jump ahead, the ones who do support education and scientific research. | ||
| So that's a huge worry for me. | ||
| So, and I guess, not because I'm a Democrat, but because I'm a thinking person, Liberation Day meant liberating all of us citizens in the United States from some of our money. | ||
| Even that cup of coffee is going to cost everybody more. | ||
| All right, Caroline. | ||
| Well, here's an update for you on tariffs and trade. | ||
| Here's a headline from BBC from one hour ago. | ||
| Trump hints tariffs on China may drop as talks set to begin. | ||
| U.S. President Donald Trump has hinted that U.S. tariffs on goods from China may come down as top trade officials from the world's two biggest economies are set to hold talks. | ||
| That's going to take place in Sweden this weekend with the Treasury Secretary Scott Besant and the trade representative. | ||
| This is from the president just 10 minutes ago or so this morning on Truth Social. | ||
| 80% tariff on China seems right. | ||
| Up to Scott B, he says. | ||
| This is what the president had to say in the Oval Office yesterday when he announced that new trade deal between the U.S. and UK. | ||
| He was asked about tariff talks between U.S. officials and their Chinese counterparts in Geneva this weekend. | ||
|
unidentified
|
President, if the talks go well this weekend between Secretary Bess and Ambassador Greer, their Chinese counterparts, not preemptively, but if the talks go well, would you then consider lowering the tariff rate on China? | |
| Well, it could be. | ||
| I mean, we're going to see. | ||
| Right now, you can't get any higher. | ||
| It's at 145, so we know it's coming down. | ||
| I think we're going to have a very good relationship. | ||
| You know, I always got along very well with President Xi. | ||
| That relationship was greatly disturbed by COVID when COVID came in. | ||
| But we get along very well now. | ||
| I mean, we had a, I mean, the relationship was hurt with a lot of people, a lot of countries when COVID came in. | ||
| But I think we're going to have a very good relationship. | ||
| I expect to have a very good relationship with China Scott. | ||
| I think it's a very friendly meeting. | ||
| They look forward to doing it in an elegant way. | ||
| China, as you know, has a tremendous trade surplus with us, and we can't, you know, we just can't have that. | ||
| But I think it's going to be very good for both countries. | ||
| I would like to see China opened. | ||
| You know, one of the big things here is, and nobody would know this, but the U.K. was largely closed. | ||
| It was very much closed to trade. | ||
| And now it's opened. | ||
| And a lot of the financial reporters are very happy about that because so much, I'd listen to them. | ||
| Oh, I hope they get countries opened up. | ||
| And then you compete on a fair basis. | ||
| But you can't compete when you're not allowed to go there. | ||
| China would be the number one example of that. | ||
| You know, it's very close. | ||
| We almost had it last time before COVID, and that didn't work out. | ||
| But we made a great deal with China. | ||
| They had to buy $50 billion worth of our food products, and it was a great deal doing very well for our farmers. | ||
| And then when Biden came in, as usual, nothing happened. | ||
| You know, he didn't enforce it, and it got less, less, less, and ultimately, you know, destroyed a great deal. | ||
| That was a great deal. | ||
| But no, I think that we're going to have a good weekend with China. | ||
| I think they have a lot to gain. | ||
| I do think they have far more to gain than we do, in a sense, but we're going to have a good, I think we're going to have a very good weekend. | ||
| President Trump talking about weekend negotiations in Geneva, Switzerland with the Treasury Secretary and his trade representative and their Chinese counterparts. | ||
| We are in an open forum this morning talking about the news of the day, any public policy or political issue. | ||
| Vince in Houston, Texas, independent. | ||
| Let's hear from you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, Greta, and thank y'all for everything you do. | |
| And I would never play poker with you or any of your fellow hosts on that show because y'all have the best poker faces in the world. | ||
| I don't know how y'all don't laugh. | ||
| But anyway, thank you for that. | ||
| I got a couple things. | ||
| I am an independent. | ||
| I have voted for Clinton. | ||
| I voted for Obama once, and I did vote for Trump. | ||
| I try to stay neutral and make my own decisions. | ||
| But what I have a big problem is why are so many callers and people against everything this man is doing? | ||
| On the Doge matter, they're finding all these waste and abuse. | ||
| I don't care if it's Mickey Mouse that finds it. | ||
| I'm just glad somebody finally found it and exposed it. | ||
| Number two, on our illegal alien problems and deporting them. | ||
| I was in the fire department in Houston for 30 years and I'd worked the streets on Amlets. | ||
| These gang members, if you're not a gang member, they don't hang around with you. | ||
| And the question of this guy that we're trying to get back from El Salvador not being a gang member, people that really know how they work, you're not even allowed to be in a car with them unless you're a gang member. | ||
| Also, the third thing I want to make, I know I'm all over the place, is people are talking about tone with politicians and the way they talk to people. | ||
| Well, I've been watching the last couple of months that the Democrats get on TV and use the F-word on national TV. | ||
| My granddaughter was with me the other day, who's 10, and heard these people saying that word repeatedly on TV. | ||
| Nobody's talking about their tone. | ||
| All right, Vince, but before you go, did you vote for President Trump all three times, all three elections? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Not the first time, no. | |
| Okay, second and third. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I mean, the second time. | |
| I'm going to be honest with you. | ||
| And I voted for him this time. | ||
| But the problem I have is, and my wife is African American. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All these people that are taking up for these criminals, do you want them to live next door to you? | |
| All right, Vince, I'm going to pick up on immigration and the actions by the Trump administration. | ||
| And on Capitol Hill this week, we've seen cabinet secretaries testifying about the president's budget request to Congress. | ||
| The Homeland Security Secretary, Christy Noam, up on Capitol Hill twice from yesterday's testimony, she responds to a question about the U.S. Supreme Court's order to facilitate the return of Kilmar Garcia. | ||
| You read the, I assume you have read the Supreme Court decision in the case of Kilmar Obrego-Garcia. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| That court decision requires the administration to facilitate Kilmar Obrego-Garcia's release from El Salvador. | ||
| Can you describe the steps that you have taken to facilitate this release? | ||
| And specifically, can you answer as to whether you have reached out to your counterpart in El Salvador to facilitate Mr. Obrego Garcia's release? | ||
| Obreco Garcia is a citizen of El Salvador and should never have been in this country and will not be coming back to this country. | ||
| There is no scenario where Obrego Garcia will be in the United States again. | ||
| If he were to come back, we would immediately deport him again because he is a terrorist, he's a human smuggler, and he is a wife beater. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You've read the Supreme Court decision. | |
| Does the Supreme Court decision not require you to facilitate the return of Mr. Obrego Garcia? | ||
| The Trump administration is complying with all court orders and judges' orders. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Does the Supreme Court order require you to facilitate the return of Mr. Obrego Garcia? | |
| Is a citizen of El Salvador? | ||
| It is up to the president of the El Salvador to make the decision. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You're a defense. | |
| And if he is coming back, it's been a big topic of conversation between all of us, between the country. | ||
| When the president visited the United States of America, it was discussed and talked about there. | ||
| The president has been very clear on this issue as the Secretary of State and I have as well. | ||
| Obrego Garcia is not a citizen of this country and is a dangerous individual who does not belong here. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I will not ask another question. | |
| The discussion ends when the Supreme Court rules 9-0 that you have to facilitate his release. | ||
| And the fact that you can't even acknowledge the wording of the order, which commands you to facilitate his release, and you advertise to this committee that you are going to willfully ignore the ruling. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That is incredibly chilling for the balance of powers in a democracy that relies on the executive branch to honor decisions made by the highest court of the land. | |
| From Capitol Hill yesterday, an exchange there between Senator Murphy and the Homeland Security Secretary, the senator saying, arguing that the discussion ends when the Supreme Court rules. | ||
| You can react to what you heard there in this debate over immigration actions by the Trump administration here in open forum this morning. | ||
| And if you missed that hearing, go to our website, c-span.org. | ||
| Download our free video mobile app, C-SPAN, now. | ||
| You can watch it in its entirety. | ||
| If you don't have time to do that, we also put in yellow stars that indicate the key moments from the testimony of these cabinet secretaries. | ||
| So you can click along and get an idea of the questions and answers from their testimony. | ||
| Sticking with Capitol Hill this morning, the economy and business section of the Washington Post, an update for all of you on negotiations that are happening this week over the president's proposal to make his 2017 tax provisions permanent, as well as a debate that's happening within the Republican Party of how much they can cut to pay for them. | ||
| Republican fight over SALT stalls Trump's tax plan is their headline. | ||
| House Speaker Mike Johnson and a band of moderate Republican rebels are at loggerheads over how to handle changes to the state and local tax deduction, often called SALT. | ||
| That provision allows individuals or married couples to subtract the amount they paid in state taxes from their federal tax bill, but it's been capped at $10,000, well below what many taxpayers owe, especially in high cost of living areas since 2017. | ||
| That is one of the issues that is holding up movement in the House. | ||
| This week, many of the committees were slated to hold hearings and markups on the president's proposal. | ||
| Those were delayed while they talk behind closed doors. | ||
| Adding to that is, again, from the Washington Post, a headline here: Trump's reversal on taxes complicates the budget bill's outlook. | ||
| And the president yesterday floating again, taxing millionaires as part of this proposal to pay for it. | ||
| Then there's also changes to Medicaid that has some moderate Republicans also expressing concern about voting for what the president has called, quote, one big, beautiful bill. | ||
| That's your update from Capitol Hill this morning on those negotiations. | ||
| Steve in Springfield, Virginia, and Independent. | ||
| Hi, Steve. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm still reeling from the audio of our secretary defying the Supreme Court, but the reason I called in on Open Forum was just to say right now there's only one topic. | |
| I mean, I'm on the independent lines. | ||
| I didn't vote for Obama. | ||
| I voted for Republican as recently as 2016, but right now there's Trump and not Trump. | ||
| That's the only topic I think we can have until we have an administration that respects the rule of law and doesn't try to dismantle the federal government. | ||
| The caller that talked about education comes back to this exact topic. | ||
| Why are they dismantling that? | ||
| Why are they undercutting decades of established research and changing the entire trajectory of our place in the world? | ||
| The world depends on us for a lot of that foundational research, taking websites offline. | ||
| I mean, just it is, you can't enumerate the number of problems that are occurring with this administration and how they're going about their ostensible budget-cutting efforts. | ||
| I don't believe Doge is going to save us any money in the long run. | ||
| It's going to end up costing us money. | ||
| All right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Just look at the USDA. | |
| Steve's thoughts there in Springfield, Virginia. | ||
| Timothy in Fayetteville, North Carolina, also an independent. | ||
| Timothy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| Morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Yes, I've been watching politics and I'm an independent and I'm also a born-again Christian. | ||
| And I am a follower of Christ, and I was born in the United States of America. | ||
| It sads me because I serve this nation with pride in all my heart. | ||
| And here we are in the 20th century. | ||
| We ain't talking about this enough on mainstream media. | ||
| Why is America still hating all people of color likely? | ||
| These people in these politics right now, we understand that they are traitors, but you lead an insurrection by a president, and we got the people saying it is okay. | ||
| The mainstream is not telling the world God's truth. | ||
| Where have we become traitors? | ||
| I mean, what they call privilege when we break the law. | ||
| We are not hostages when we put the law. | ||
| All right, Timothy, the audio was muffled, difficult to understand you. | ||
| Jeff, Waldorf, Maryland, Democratic caller. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, I want to commend you on the coverage of the Pope. | |
| And that's important. | ||
| And Christianity and religion's important issues. | ||
| But I think you guys who advertise that you are nonpartisan, you give all the, you rightfully, I think you do a really good job, pretty good job of showing Democrats, Republicans, independent point of view. | ||
| Whenever you cover religion on a major subject, not all the time, when you have a Pope change, for instance, every decade or so, then you need to spend an equal amount of time. | ||
| It used to be on networks in the 60s and before, there was an equal time provision. | ||
| If a polishing politician came on and gave a Republican's perspective, then you had to give equal time for a Democratic perspective. | ||
| So you should do the same thing and have the coverage you gave on the Pope should equal time to arguments about atheism by people like Lawrence Krauss or Carl Sagan or other scientists, philosophers. | ||
| And it doesn't mean there's a conflict between those. | ||
| It's not like a hate relationship because after all, the Vatican has an astronomical observatory. | ||
| So science and religion can work together. | ||
| But as an equal time provision, whenever you cover issues like a change of the Pope, not any time you cover religion, I'm saying that would be too many. | ||
| Yeah, no, Jeff, thank you for that suggestion. | ||
| Another update for you from Capitol Hill, a headline to share. | ||
| This is the Washington Post headline. | ||
| Head of a FEMA removed after saying the agency should not be abolished. | ||
| He testified on Capitol Hill earlier this week that FEMA should not be abolished. | ||
| He was fired the next day. | ||
| We covered that hearing, and you can find it on our website at c-span.org. | ||
| Kenneth in Hollywood, Florida, Independent. | ||
| Hello. | ||
| Good morning to you, Peter. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, hi. | |
| How are you doing? | ||
| Listen, the only thing I would like to say is I can't wait for 2026. | ||
| That's when it's going to be a bloodbath with all the Republic. | ||
| You know, they talk about Medicare and all this. | ||
| They better not mess with Medicare and they better not mess with Social Security. | ||
| And then we got Donald Trump. | ||
| The first day I'm in office, I'm going to bring prices down. | ||
| What is he doing? | ||
| He's doing all the tariffs, bringing the prices back up, a lot up. | ||
| So I can't wait for 2026, a bloodbath. | ||
| You know, I'm talking. | ||
| Maybe if we get more Democrats than both sides of the House, we can this time impeach that idiot. | ||
| But anyway, you have a. | ||
| Peter, who do you think should be the leader of the Democratic Party if they were to take control of the House and the Senate? | ||
| Who should be the then, if that happens, majority leader in the House and then the majority leader in the Senate? | ||
| Who do you think it should be? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't know. | |
| We'll see. | ||
| Let's see who gets the, I hate to say it, the balls to do this job. | ||
| Well, what about the current leadership? | ||
| Hakeem Jeffries, there on your screen, who's the leader of the Democrats in the House right now? | ||
| And Chuck Schumer, who's the leader of the Democrats in the Senate. | ||
| What about those two? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hakeem, maybe him, maybe him. | |
| We'll see. | ||
| We'll see. | ||
| Because, you know, the problem about politics, they talk so much shit. | ||
| They promise the world. | ||
| They surprise us. | ||
| Look what Donald Trump did. | ||
| I'm going to bring prices down. | ||
| I'm going to change everything. | ||
| Prices are not down. | ||
| You go to Costco. | ||
| Prices are up. | ||
| Peter, I'll leave it there. | ||
| And for our viewers who are interested in that question of who should be the leader of the Democratic Party, we cover the news conferences by leadership in both parties on a daily, weekly basis when they give news conferences. | ||
| And you can find them all on our website at c-span.org. | ||
| Coming up on the Washington Journal, Harvard economics professor Kenneth Rogoff discusses the impact President Trump's tariffs are having on global markets and the value of the U.S. dollar. | ||
| But first, Kevin Walsh of the government accountability offices discusses the state of air traffic control systems in the U.S. and recommendations for modernization. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
|
unidentified
|
American History TV, Saturdays on C-SPAN 2, exploring the people and events that tell the American story. | |
| This weekend, at 4.30 p.m. Eastern, a discussion on the history of the civil service and government workers with history professors Joseph McCartan from Georgetown University, Margaret Rung from Roosevelt University, and Eric Yellen from the University of Richmond. | ||
| Then at 8 p.m. Eastern on Lectures in History, a look at Native Americans and the American Revolution with Tulane University History Professor Keely Smith. | ||
| She'll also discuss how the U.S. government and American society viewed various tribes during the early republic. | ||
| And at 9.30 p.m. Eastern on the presidency, hear the story of Elizabeth Keckley, a popular Washington, D.C. dressmaker and former slave who was a confidant of First Lady Mary Todd Lincoln. | ||
| Exploring the American story, watch American History TV Saturdays on C-SPAN 2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at c-span.org slash history. | ||
| Book TV every Sunday on C-SPAN 2 features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. | ||
| Here's a look at what's coming up this weekend. | ||
| At 3 p.m. Eastern, Dr. Robert Smith shares his book, Has Medicine Lost Its Mind?, in which he argues that the medical establishment has failed to consider the importance of mental health in favor of focusing on physical health. | ||
| And at 7 Eastern, Kimberly Heckler talks about her biography of her mother-in-law, Margaret Heckler, in A Woman of First. | ||
| Margaret Heckler was a Republican member of Congress from Massachusetts, who later served as HHS Secretary and Ambassador to Ireland under President Reagan. | ||
| Then at 10 p.m. Eastern on Afterwards, Atlantic Magazine staff writer Sophie Gilbert looks at the pop culture of the 90s and early 2000s and its impact on women and the feminist movement in her book, Girl On Girl, How Pop Culture Turned a Generation of Women Against Themselves. | ||
| She's interviewed by Jennifer Posner, author and founder of Women in Media and News. | ||
| Watch Book TV every Sunday on C-SPAN2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org. | ||
| Washington Journal continues. | ||
| Joining us this morning is Kevin Walsh. | ||
| He is with the Government Accountability Office, their Information Technology and Cybersecurity Director, here to talk about air traffic control system. | ||
| Kevin Walsh, I want to begin with Sean Duffy, the Transportation Secretary, yesterday announcing a new system. | ||
| I want to show it to our viewers and have you respond. | ||
| Here is the Transportation Secretary. | ||
| So we're going to rebuild some towers. | ||
| We're going to rebuild some tracons. | ||
| We're going to rebuild some centers. | ||
| Not all of them, but we're going to rebuild a few of them that need to be rebuilt. | ||
| So there'll be some bricks and mortar to this plant. | ||
| However, everything else is really easy. | ||
| Everything else that controls the airspace is going to be brand new. | ||
| So we're going to have new telecom, new fiber throughout the system. | ||
| We're going to have brand new radios in our towers to communicate between air traffic controllers and with airplanes. | ||
| We are going to have a ground radar sensors, a radar, a radar, new radar for the ground and new sensors on our tarmacs at our airports. | ||
| So our air traffic controllers who are in the tower are looking out with binoculars to see airplanes. | ||
| If it's cloudy or rainy, the weather's bad, it becomes very challenging. | ||
| We want to have all the tools so they can see where aircraft are at the airport on their screens, on their terminals. | ||
| Sean Duffy, the Transportation Secretary there. | ||
| Kevin Walsh, your reaction to what you heard there about this new system. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So first and foremost, the nation needs it. | |
| Our air traffic control systems are very old. | ||
| Aging systems are introducing more and more risk. | ||
| When we looked at this in our report released in September, we used FAA's own data and they found that there were 138 air traffic control systems, mostly, right, total, but there's also about 40 some odd that are at DOD and other agencies. | ||
| But the FAA controls the critical ones, the 138 that they identified. | ||
| And we looked at them and three-quarters of them were having some degree of problems with sustainability. | ||
| That means they couldn't get enough parts or funding or spares to modernize. | ||
| So I hear Secretary Duffy and I am encouraged. | ||
| I'm glad that this is getting the attention we need. | ||
| But I also want to sound a note of caution. | ||
| This is something that the government and our nation has been working on since the 80s. | ||
| The FAA attempted to modernize the airspace in the 80s and 90s. | ||
| It was initially projected to cost about $10 billion. | ||
| It wound up ballooning in cost up to $36 billion. | ||
| And then Congress stepped in and said, well, whoa, whoa, we want to stop the growth. | ||
| So in 2003, they initiated a new office at the FAA. | ||
| And that office was tasked with the NextGen program. | ||
| The NextGen program initiated in 2004 with a stated goal of finishing modernizing the air traffic control system of the National Airspace by 2025. | ||
| Clearly that did not happen. | ||
| Prior to Secretary Duffy, the latest estimates were now that it was going to be 2030 before it was finished, and they were spending about a billion dollars a year on this modernization effort. | ||
| So I'm encouraged, but the note of caution is this is not easy. | ||
| This is not going to be quick, at least if we're using the methods that we have in the past. | ||
| Now, Secretary Duffy and the administration are bringing new people, new mindsets, new approaches, which is great. | ||
| But this is our air traffic control system. | ||
| And the Silicon Valley adage of go fast and break things is not how I would want the National Airspace to be modernized. | ||
| So again, I am rooting for them. | ||
| I desperately want them to succeed, but I also want them to be thorough and thoughtful as they go about this. | ||
| And I'm glad this is getting the attention that the nation needs. | ||
| You come across as very serious about this. | ||
| And is it because of the numbers that you found? | ||
| You referenced them. | ||
| 138 systems total, 51 of those systems unsustainable, 54 deemed potentially unsustainable. | ||
| Was it shocking to you? | ||
|
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It wasn't shocking just because we've been following this issue for so long, but to see it in writing in FAA's own determination, because this is not the kind of analysis an external party such as ourselves could really come in and meaningfully do. | |
| We don't have the resources to evaluate 138 different systems and make determinations on how sustainable they are, how critical they are to the national airspace. | ||
| But FAA did all that, and that's a credit to them. | ||
| They also have been doing it. | ||
| It wasn't just a one-off exercise. | ||
| We looked at their 2023 results. | ||
| They did it again in 2024, and they're in the process of doing it right now. | ||
| That's our understanding. | ||
| So I'm glad that this wasn't a one-off thing. | ||
| I'm glad that they are keeping their eyes on it. | ||
| That should help them focus their modernization efforts on the most critical ones. | ||
| One of the things that was included in their report that we examined was the operational impact of some of these systems. | ||
| So of the 138 we were talking about, you can break that down into which ones have issues or no issues. | ||
| There were 105 with issues, and there's a lot of numbers here, so bear with me. | ||
| The 105 is the one I'm going to come back to. | ||
| Of that 105, the ones that had some sort of spare parts or staffing issues or funding, 58 of them were deemed to have a critical operational impact on the national airspace. | ||
| So this is serious. | ||
| FAA is aware of the problem, but we've been kicking this can down the road for a long time. | ||
| At this point, you know, if we're going to kick the, if we're going to continue the kicking the can metaphor, perhaps the can has very little aluminum left. | ||
| Maybe it's mostly, you know, metaphorical duct tape and staples. | ||
| But again, I'm glad that transportation is focusing. | ||
| Well, you said it's not easy. | ||
| Why? | ||
| I mean, what have they been doing that you say isn't working for decades? | ||
|
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So some of the problems that they've experienced, lack of oversight, causing cost growth, unexpected requirements, we see a lot of, you know, since these systems have been growing and being fixed and repaired and maintained for, in some cases, north of 60 years. | |
| And to focus on that, 60 years ago, JFK was president. | ||
| So these air traffic control systems are not spring chickens. | ||
| As they have been maintained, they have been evolving and becoming their own unique problems. | ||
| We saw that sadly in Newark, where some of the localized issues there resulted in an outage, which thankfully was not tragic. | ||
| But I think those are some of the issues that we're seeing besides the difficulty finding spare parts. | ||
| Well, it was interesting because the Transportation Secretary, when he started out that event yesterday to announce this new system, was showing those gathered there and the cameras what the current system looks like. | ||
| And he joked saying, I didn't pull this from the Smithsonian. | ||
| This isn't relics. | ||
| This is what they currently use. | ||
|
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Yes. | |
| How does it look for those that didn't see that yesterday? | ||
|
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So during a hearing a few months back, Representative Massey actually was able to put up a screenshot showing what the system looks like. | |
| And it's picture an old green screen computer with a few rudimentary lines and charts. | ||
| So this is not a hyper-modern system. | ||
| And problematically, when FAA is modernizing these systems, it takes them about four to five years to come up with a baseline, at least of the subset that we looked at. | ||
| So that's four to five years to come up with some idea of what the cost and schedule are going to look like. | ||
| And then after they establish that baseline, it takes them another 12 years, in some cases 16 to 19 years for some of the ones that we looked at, to finish the product. | ||
| Altogether, we're looking at 20 years to modernize something. | ||
| At that point, it's not modern anymore. | ||
| Do you fly? | ||
|
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I do. | |
| And given what you know, why do you fly? | ||
|
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Despite these issues, the FAA handles 50,000 flights every day. | |
| I think it's a testament to the employees, to the air traffic controllers, to the pilots, to everyone who is doing their best to make up for the lack of the systems. | ||
| And it is to them that I would attribute the safety of the National Airspace. | ||
| What happened in Newark? | ||
| Losing frequency, losing connection. | ||
| From reporting, it sounds like that happens other places than Newark. | ||
| What is going on? | ||
| And what happens in those moments where the pilot is not hearing from the air traffic controller? | ||
|
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I've heard some of the recordings from the pilot, and to their credit, the ability to stay calm and unflappable is incredible. | |
| So what's going on in their mind, I'm sure, is, well, we did see some air traffic controllers take trauma leave after the event, according to reports. | ||
| In terms of what specifically happened at Newark, again, we have not done reporting or investigation. | ||
| The public reports that I have seen indicate that there was some sort of copper telecommunications cable that frayed. | ||
| And the FAA, again, is not unaware of these issues. | ||
| They have their FENS investment, F-E-N-S, which is intended to address issues like this. | ||
| And I believe, according to Secretary Duffy's announcement yesterday, that is one of the investments that is going to be accelerated to try and introduce better telecommunications infrastructure, not just at Newark, but across the nation. | ||
| So, again, this is needed, and I'm glad they're focusing their attentions correctly. | ||
| What did you hear from Senator Ted Cruz, who was at that event yesterday, and why was it significant that he was there? | ||
|
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So I had an exchange with Senator Cruz during a hearing, again, after we released this report, and he asked me what it was going to take to fix the air traffic control system. | |
| And I stand by what I said back then. | ||
| This is going to take billions of dollars, many years, and many, many people to fix. | ||
| Billions, because how many billions? | ||
| Because Transportation Secretary Duffy said $15 billion is what Senator Cruz is pledging to get through Congress. | ||
|
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So that is an unknowable question. | |
| I mean, every time it seems like the government comes up with some sort of estimate over the years, since the 80s, first it was $10 billion, then it grew to $36 billion in Congress pumped the brakes. | ||
| Initially, when in 2004 they came out with NextGen, I think it was another $15 billion that kept growing as well. | ||
| And we're spending a billion dollars every year, which sounds crazy. | ||
| I mean, it sounds like pocket change. | ||
| You just throw around. | ||
| But I don't want to give the impression that those billions weren't helping or wasting. | ||
| Those billions are what kept the 50,000 flights a day safe. | ||
| But band-aids and duct tape are not a long-term solution. | ||
| Let's turn to our calls. | ||
| We're going to divide the lines. | ||
| Eastern central part of the country, 202-748-8000. | ||
| Mountain Pacific, 202-748-8001. | ||
| If you're a frequent flyer, tell us what it's like for you at 202-748-8002. | ||
| Maverick in Las Vegas, good morning to you. | ||
| You're up first. | ||
|
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Good morning. | |
| Thank you for taking my call. | ||
| Kevin, first of all, I'd like to thank you for your historical perspective on some of the antiquated systems that the FAA has been using and continues to have to use. | ||
| One thing about this, when you said Silicon Valley, I am from Silicon Valley, you are absolutely correct about breaking things and then fixing it because that's kind of the way it works. | ||
| However, if you get in a research laboratory that's government-funded, they typically don't want to make any errors because it gets reported as government's blowing your cash. | ||
| Now, the other thing is when it comes to upgrading the air traffic control systems, I don't believe it should be politicized. | ||
| However, it's going to be politicized, and any little positive thing is going to be touted as a win when there is really no oversight and there's really no one really reporting on the actual events that are happening in this upgrade. | ||
| All right, Maverick, let's take your point about oversight because Kevin Walsh, you made it earlier as well. | ||
| You said there's been a lack of oversight over the years. | ||
|
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Explain. | |
| So, in addition to the growth and costs from the 80s and 90s, one of the reasons why, and I was not doing the work at that time, but one of the reasons why we reported that there was that cost growth was a lack of oversight. | ||
| In this most recent report in September, we looked a little bit deeper at some of the attempts to modernize and some of the ongoing modernization efforts. | ||
| And one of the things that we found was when we looked a little bit deeper, those investments that hadn't yet set their cost and schedule baselines were a little bit less overseen. | ||
| So we made some recommendations to increase the oversight of pre-baseline investments. | ||
| We also found instances where the council that was supposed to be doing this oversight was approving modernizations to proceed with draft-based documents. | ||
| And so the finalized documents that came later came after the oversight body had already finished their approval. | ||
| So that was a little perturbing. | ||
| To Maverick's point, also about the incentives in the government to not rock the boat, so to speak, I agree. | ||
| The government has, you know, it's not famous for moving quickly. | ||
| I also, however, think that sometimes that can be a feature, not a bug. | ||
| There are sayings that when dealing with the regulations that govern air traffic and pilots, that the regulations are written in blood. | ||
| Because each of those regulations is probably based in a loss of life somewhere. | ||
| And the idea that we could move fast and break things, we're talking about putting things into a production environment with 50,000 flights a day. | ||
| Incalculable lives are on those flights every day. | ||
| So the idea that we might just move fast and try something before it is thoroughly vetted scares me a little bit. | ||
| But again, the FAA is very rigorous, very stringent. | ||
| It is because of those people that we are still successful. | ||
| Well, Stratton Journal Editorial Board notes this about how quickly they want to move. | ||
| Some of these improvements on current course won't be complete for more than a decade, but Mr. Duffy's goal is to finish them in two to three years if Congress gives the FAA more money. | ||
| Inside the budget reconciliation bill, that's what the president calls his big beautiful bill, is the $15 billion is what Republicans are talking about putting in that piece of legislation to modernize the FAA control system. | ||
| Bill in Kissime, Florida, good morning to you. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
|
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Good morning. | |
| I got a question for your guest. | ||
| How long has he been on the job for government accountability? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And you can talk about the role of GAO as well. | ||
|
unidentified
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Sure. | |
| So I have been at GAO since 2005-ish, so coming up on 20 years, the Government Accountability Office is a nonpartisan, fact-based organization. | ||
| We work at the request of Congress or in certain wide-cutting issues. | ||
| We use the Comptroller General, Gene Dodero's authority, to start work in that vein. | ||
| This particular work, I mentioned a hearing earlier at the behest of Senator Cruz, his committee, the Senate Committee on Transportation, Aviation, they are the ones who requested that we do this work, so kudos to them. | ||
| But that is how we work, and I have been doing work on IT and cybersecurity issues, which is what I am a director of the audits of in GAO for 20 years. | ||
| More recently, I have been doing audits of the government's legacy systems since about 2013 and FAA in particular for the past four years. | ||
| But the GAO has a long history. | ||
| I referenced earlier our reports from the 80s and 90s on the topic of FAA's modernizations. | ||
| How does the FAA air control system compare to other legacy systems in our government? | ||
|
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So, unsurprisingly, the government has a legacy problem. | |
| We have reported periodically, we reported most recently in GO 19-471 about the government's most critical legacy systems in need of modernization. | ||
| We highlighted legacy systems and looked across the 23 civilian agencies and highlighted the 10 most important, but also included details on 65 total legacy systems in the government. | ||
| Those legacy systems, unsurprisingly also, are multiple decades old. | ||
| They control things like taxpayer data, but also dams and power plants out west. | ||
| Veterans Affairs has some of these systems, and I'm purposely not naming names because we, much like this report on the FAA, we didn't want to give any bad actors any help by giving them a target list. | ||
| But these systems are old, and we are in the process of updating that list of the government's most critical legacy systems in need of modernization. | ||
| And I'm looking forward to reporting on those results as well. | ||
| Jim in Missouri, good morning to you, Jim. | ||
|
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Good morning. | |
| I have kind of a similar question, but it's basically how does the current FAA system compare to the current military system? | ||
| You mentioned there were like somewhere around 40 military systems. | ||
| Are those more modern? | ||
| And I guess just kind of as another thought on that, we've been doing a lot of nation building in the past 20-some years. | ||
| Do we have more modern equipment in some of these other countries that we've been building up? | ||
| All right. | ||
| Thanks, Jim. | ||
|
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Kevin Walsh. | |
| So regarding the systems in other countries, I cannot speak to that. | ||
| We did not look at that. | ||
| I can imagine that perhaps if we are building a new system in other countries, it could be like telephones, where there are some countries that skipped right from landlines and went to cellular. | ||
| But not having looked at that, I can't speak to that. | ||
| My apologies. | ||
| And on DOD. | ||
|
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DOD and their 40-plus systems, we also did not look at. | |
| However, DOD has different requirements. | ||
| DOD also has its own issues with legacy systems. | ||
| They fly both the newest, basically flying supercomputers in the F-35, but also some of the oldest airplanes in the government, the B-52s. | ||
| Now, that's not to say that those airframes don't have some modern tech built within it. | ||
| But DOD, I believe, runs older transponders than what we see on commercial aircraft. | ||
| So in many cases, as we are modernizing the air traffic control system, we need to take into account not only what is on modern civilian aircraft, but also on DOD's aircraft. | ||
| Caroline in Kentucky. | ||
|
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Yes, I have a question. | |
| We're listening to you, Caroline. | ||
|
unidentified
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Go ahead. | |
| Okay, number one, President Biden wanted an infrastructure bill. | ||
| And that would have included some of this on the air traffic control. | ||
| However, President Trump asked Congress not to pass anything until he got into office. | ||
| And now they want to talk about this as some big idea of theirs. | ||
| And it's all political, the whole system. | ||
| And it's a shame because I've flown all over the world for about 20 years in various places. | ||
| And the most trouble I had was flying into the United States. | ||
| And I flew from Germany to Beijing to Cambodia to Kyrgyzstan in Russia and all these places. | ||
| And yet we have all these problems with our own infrastructure. | ||
| All right, Caroline. | ||
| Kevin Walsh, is it politics, as Caroline was saying, or is it something else? | ||
|
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So I can't speak to the political angle. | |
| I will again reiterate that I am rooting for Secretary Duffy and their plan to succeed, regardless of Republicans, Democrats, GO is nonpartisan. | ||
| We hope that their efforts will be successful. | ||
| We look at this and we have flagged that this is critical to the nation's success. | ||
| So we do have older systems, absolutely, and those are, you know, when you use the older systems, you introduce risk to the airspace. | ||
| But again, FAA officials have said to us that they have done an analysis and determined that they have adequate backup to ensure systems are redundant and that they can avoid catastrophic incidents. | ||
| Let's talk about that fatal crash at Reagan National Airport in January between the military helicopter and that passenger jet. | ||
| Here's a headline from the Washington Post. | ||
| One day ago, helicopters were banned near National Airport. | ||
| They are disrupting flights anyway. | ||
|
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So we are aware of those reports. | |
| The NTSB has not yet finished its investigation into the specific causes of that crash. | ||
| It is a tragedy at its core. | ||
| And I am deeply saddened that that occurred. | ||
| I am also, on the one hand, heartened that the DOD and the Department of Transportation are seemingly coordinating to prevent and mitigate future issues like that. | ||
| That is some of the most crowded airspace in the nation, some of the most secure. | ||
| And when you pile that on top of antiquated systems, it causes issues. | ||
| The Washington Post also reported, I believe it was last week, that the helicopter pilot asked for permission from the air traffic controller, a very common practice of basically asking for permission to use his own or her own ability for seeing any other aircraft in their area. | ||
| I forget what it's called. | ||
| But it sounded like it was common practice. | ||
| Why is it common practice? | ||
| Is it because of the system? | ||
|
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I think it's a function of, well, historically, I think it's a function of Reagan Airport is right next to the Pentagon. | |
| And the Pentagon has military-based needs. | ||
| And when you have to mesh the needs of the military and the needs of civilian aircraft, there's some give and take there. | ||
| Patricia Chandler, Arizona. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
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I was wondering, who is in charge of checking the checks and balances? | |
| Who's in charge of checking whether the engine needs to be checked before it take off into the skies? | ||
| Who's in charge of technology, the engine? | ||
| Who's in charge of checking to make sure it's safe to take off? | ||
| I don't know that I have an authoritative answer for you on that. | ||
| My understanding is that the FAA is involved, but also the individual airlines do their own maintenance and checks. | ||
| So I apologize for not having a better answer for you. | ||
| Here's a text from a viewer. | ||
| What does Mr. Walsh think of privatizing air traffic control? | ||
| That's Joe from Pennsylvania. | ||
|
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So, Joe, this is a frequent discussion. | |
| When I have testified on the issue, I testified next to some pilots, some air traffic controllers, and all of them, their best advice and their opinion was that privatizing air traffic control would not make sense for the United States. | ||
| We haven't done work on evaluating those alternatives or those options. | ||
| So my apologies, Joe. | ||
| I can't have my own opinion without having some sort of logical or factual basis for it. | ||
| But that is what some of the experts I've testified with have said. | ||
| You spoke about the modernizing attempts in the 80s. | ||
| Back in 2004 is when the country first started hearing about next gen to update the FAA control system then. | ||
| We're here in 2025. | ||
| You've talked about how the ballooning costs have happened over the years. | ||
|
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What role do lobbyists play in this? | |
| So, again, we have not examined that issue in our reports. | ||
| I want to remain fact-based and authoritative. | ||
| Authoritative. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| It's early. | ||
| It's all right. | ||
|
unidentified
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Authoritative here for you. | |
| So I don't know. | ||
| I don't have a great answer on what role the lobbyists may play in changing the course of these decisions. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Kevin Walsh has been our guest here this morning with the Government Accountability Office. | ||
| He's the Director of Information Technology and Cybersecurity. | ||
| And you can go to GAO.gov to learn more. | ||
| Coming up, Harvard Economics Professor Kenneth Rogoff discusses the impact of President Trump's tariffs on global markets and the value of the U.S. dollar. | ||
| But first, we're going to go back to Open Forum, continue getting your reaction to news of the day and policy debates, as well as any political ones. | ||
| There are the lines on your screen. | ||
| Start dialing in. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
|
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Sunday night on C-SPAN's Q&A. | |
| Former Ohio Governor John Kasich, author of Heaven Help Us, talks about the work done by religious institutions and people of faith in the United States, including combating homelessness, hunger, human trafficking, and other issues. | ||
| I do think it's not critical to count the number of times you go to church, but at the same time, I think we need to realize that those institutions, they're sort of like when you think about running for office, you need a clubhouse, a political clubhouse to gather. | ||
| I look at the churches as an opportunity for people to go in there with their ideas of change in the world and to be able to find support, some material support, some psychological support. | ||
| I also believe you can get more things done working with others than just working alone. | ||
| John Kasich with his book, Heaven Help Us, Sunday night at 8 p.m. Eastern on C-SPAN's Q ⁇ A. You can listen to Q&A and all of our podcasts on the C-SPAN Now app or wherever you get your podcasts. | ||
| Carthyism, Whitaker Chambers, Alger Hiss, Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, Paul Robeson, House Un-American Activities Committee, the Smith Act, the Hollywood 10, the Joint Anti-Facist Committee, the Truman Loyalty Program, the Blacklist. | ||
| book burning, and communism. | ||
| All subjects of controversy during the 30s, 40s, and 50s here in the United States. | ||
| Clay Risen, a reporter and editor at the New York Times, has a fresh look at all this in his book, Red Scare. | ||
| Mr. Risen writes in his preface that his grandfather was a career FBI agent who joined the Bureau during World War II, and he recounted stories of implementing loyalty tests for the federal government in the late 1940s. | ||
|
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Author Clay Risen with his book, Red Scare, Blacklists, McCarthyism, and the Making of Modern America on this episode of Book Notes Plus with our host, Brian Lamb. | |
| Book Notes Plus is available wherever you get your podcasts and on the C-SPAN Now app. | ||
| Washington Journal continues. | ||
| And we are an open forum here this morning until a little bit after 9 a.m. Eastern time here on the East Coast. | ||
| We're getting your thoughts on any public policy or political issues. | ||
| I'll share with you from Capitol Hill this week the testimony of FBI Director Kash Patel. | ||
| He was taking, sitting before members of Congress, taking their questions about the president's request for the FBI budget in 2026. | ||
| The headline from the Hill from his testimony yesterday is, Battelle appears to backtrack, says the FBI will work on whatever budget given. | ||
| His testimony the first day was that they needed more money. | ||
| The second day, yesterday, when he appeared on the other side of Capitol Hill before senators, he had said that they would work with whatever budget. | ||
| Take a look at this exchange between Senator Chris Van Holland of Maryland and the FBI director. | ||
|
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Mr. Chair, we really don't have a budget to work with. | |
| Let me ask you about your testimony the other day in the House, Mr. Director, where I think you conceded that the budget request, as skinny as it is, was really not adequate to meet the mission. | ||
|
unidentified
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In fact, I think you testified that you really need another billion dollars. | |
| So would you agree that this budget that's been submitted is inadequate to meet the needs and that your testimony yesterday about another billion dollars are required to meet the mission. | ||
|
unidentified
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Is that your view? | |
| Senator, I think my view is that my view is that we will make and agree with this budget as it stands and make it work for the Operational Necessity FBI. | ||
| And as the head of the FBI, I was simply asking for more funds because I can do more with more money. | ||
| Well, look, I understand that OMB has a say in this, obviously, but I think your testimony yesterday was important and revealing that as the director, you believe that another billion dollars over and above the current level is really necessary to complete the mission. | ||
| And it does put this subcommittee in a difficult position because really that's, you know, we rely on you and others to persuade the OMB and the president to submit a budget that meets the needs and requirements of the FBI. | ||
|
unidentified
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And clearly, at least based on your testimony in the House, you don't think that that's happened. | |
| From Capitol Hill yesterday, the FBI director in the hot seat before senators, and we covered that hearing on C-SPAN. | ||
| Find it online, on demand at c-span.org or our free video mobile app, C-SPANNow. | ||
| Another update for you, a headline from the New York Times. | ||
| Yesterday, the president revives push for higher taxes on the rich. | ||
| The president is said to want to create a new top income bracket for people making more than $2.5 million per year and to tax income above that level at a rate of 39.6%. | ||
| Here's what the president just said moments ago on Truth Social. | ||
| The problem with even a tiny tax increase for the rich, which I and others would graciously accept in order to help lower middle, help the lower and middle income workers, is that the radical left Democrat lunatics will go around screaming, read my lips, the fabled quote by George Bush, the elder, that is said to have cost him the election. | ||
| No, Ross Perot cost him the election. | ||
| In any event, Republicans should probably not do it, but I'm okay if they do. | ||
| You can react to the president there floating again this idea of taxing the wealthy. | ||
| Margie in Meadville, Pennsylvania, Republican. | ||
| Hi, Margie. | ||
|
unidentified
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Good morning. | |
| Good morning. | ||
| It's prophetic that we were just discussing the FBI, and that was one of my comments. | ||
| It's kind of insidious the way the big city papers, I'm from a very small town, the big city papers are just not covering good things that the administration is doing. | ||
| The FBI arrested 200 child molesters, didn't hear a thing about it on the mainstream media. | ||
| And they also, the DEA made the largest fentanyl in history of 2.7 million pills. | ||
| Didn't hear a single thing on NBC, CBS, ABC. | ||
| And I wondered if the big city papers like The Times or The Post or all of those covered that. | ||
| Because it's almost like the administration is doing good things, but nobody wants to cover it. | ||
| All right, Margie, welcome. | ||
| Yeah, well, C-SPAN's covering Washington with our cameras. | ||
| So please go to our website, c-span.org. | ||
| The fentanyl drug bust that you're talking about, news conferences that these cabinet secretaries are having. | ||
| You can find them all on our website at c-span.org. | ||
| Shirley, Bloomington, Illinois, Democratic caller. | ||
| Hi, Shirley. | ||
|
unidentified
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Oh, C-SPAN. | |
| I would just like to talk about the SNAP program for the food. | ||
| And the SNAP program has dropped the amount I get every month. | ||
| It went from $200 down to $66. | ||
| My income is no different than it was last year. | ||
| I'm 82 years old and at poverty level. | ||
| I can't imagine what they're thinking when they would drop these money from the SNAP program. | ||
| I think it's awful. | ||
| So are you following the debate over this reconciliation bill, Shirley? | ||
| And the headline here in Politico you may be interested in, eyeing snap cuts in reconciliation. | ||
| This is from earlier in 2025. | ||
| SNAP and nutrition policies could be cut as part of the Hussein Republican plans to reduce trillions in federal spending and reconciliation discussions. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| And are they going to raise it back up or no? | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, surely there's the hearings, the committees that have jurisdiction over SNAP benefits, et cetera, they're going to hold the hearings coming up here in the weeks ahead before this legislation comes to the floor. | ||
| You should tune in to C-SPAN. | ||
| Go to our website, c-span.org, download our free video mobile app, C-SPAN now, because we'll have coverage of those debates. | ||
| Nan in Sandston, Virginia, Democratic caller. | ||
| Hi, Nan. | ||
|
unidentified
|
My question is, why was Carla Hayden fired from the Library of Congress? | |
| It upsets me because it seems that everyone who's trying to do something is being removed. | ||
| That's my concern today. | ||
| Okay, and why does it concern you? | ||
| What do you mean she's trying to do things? | ||
|
unidentified
|
She's trying to modernize the Library of Congress, bring it up to date in all aspects. | |
| That's my concern, from what I know. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Here's a headline from NPR. | ||
| President Trump fires Librarian of Congress Carla Hayden. | ||
| The president abruptly fired the librarian on Thursday as the White House continues to purge the federal government of those perceived to oppose the president and his agenda. | ||
| Hayden was notified in an email late Thursday from the White House's presidential personnel office, according to an email obtained by the Associated Press. | ||
| Confirmed by the Senate to the Job in 2016, Hayden was the first woman and the first African American to be librarian of Congress. | ||
| Zenobia in Surprise, Arizona, an independent, we'll turn to you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, yes, I have just several concerns. | |
| The gentleman that was before the open line about the airspace, air traffic safety, I, for one, on a personal note, I pray before I get on any of these aircrafts, and I don't fly frequently, but I do believe in the power of prayer. | ||
| So that's one thing I would do. | ||
| But I would like to know if, and I will probably go on GAL.gov to check this out. | ||
| But I wonder if the airspace for the president and the vice president, is that commercially guarded or looked at, or is their airspace different than us that fly commercial? | ||
| That's one question. | ||
| The cuts to the Food Stamp Medication hurts millions of people. | ||
| And he took an oath, the president, that he would take care of the people, the citizens of this country. | ||
| And so where does all that, the cuts for, I'm sure they're saving trillions of dollars, but where is that partial out to so people don't suffer? | ||
| Number three, if America is ever going to be great again, if it ceases to be good, it will never be great. | ||
| And that is my comment. | ||
| All right. | ||
| All right, Caller. | ||
| We started out today's Washington Journal this morning talking about the election of the first American Pope, Pope Leo XIV, elected by the College of Cardinals yesterday. | ||
| The world saw the first sight of him on the balcony of St. Peter's Basilica, where he addressed those that had gathered in St. Peter's Square, a crowd of more than 100,000. | ||
| He will now lead the 1.4 billion Roman Catholics from around the world. | ||
| He's also the head of state of Vatican City, and meeting with world leaders will be on the agenda as well. | ||
| Washington Post looks into what is in a name. | ||
| What does the papal name Leo mean? | ||
| The history behind the new pope's name. | ||
| And you can see here from the chart that they put together, John and Gregory are the most common names among the popes. | ||
| In its more than 2,000 years of existence, the Catholic Church has had 265 pontiffs across 267 papacies who have taken a total of 84 papal names, and Leo, 14 times, John, 21, Gregory, 16. | ||
| To look at C-SPAN's coverage of the papacy over the years, please go to our website at c-span.org. | ||
| If you're interested with all the news coming out of the Vatican the last couple of days, you can find our coverage going back several conclaves and new popes, and you can compare with what you saw and heard yesterday to previous years. | ||
| Mary in Ruffin, North Carolina, Democratic Caller. | ||
| Good morning, Mary. | ||
| Mary, good morning in Ruffin, North Carolina. | ||
| We're an open forum. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I am concerned what's going on in America. | ||
| I'm not the most educated person in the world, but common sense can tell you what's going on. | ||
| The president says he wants to make America great again. | ||
| What do he mean by great again? | ||
| Putting all people of color out of their position of jobs. | ||
| All right, Mary. | ||
| Mary, a request for you and others. | ||
| You've got to mute that television when you call in. | ||
| Jimbo in Bakersfield, California, Independent. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, when I call in, I'd like to bring something to the table. | |
| Here's what I bring. | ||
| In the New Mexico source, dated on May 2nd, 2025, Pat Lohan wrote a really incredible article about the New Mexico Defense Area. | ||
| And what has basically happened is that the Bureau of Land Management has transferred ownership to the Defense Department, basically the entire length of the border from New Mexico into Mexico. | ||
| So that means if anyone illegally enters into the country into New Mexico from Mexico, they're entering into a United States military installation. | ||
| And that has a huge number of felony charges and things of that nature. | ||
| So I just was thinking that this would be a fascinating topic for C-SPAN because I just learned about it. | ||
| That's a huge hunk of real estate. | ||
| That is an incredible militization of the border. | ||
| Hey, Greta, I cannot thank you guys enough for your contribution to democracy every day. | ||
| I mean, think about this. | ||
| From the idea of Brian Lamb, look at where C-SPAN is now. | ||
| I wonder if our democracy would even be around now if it weren't for you people televising the House of Representatives, the Senate, and all the other things you go on. | ||
| By the way, I love the promo that you people do where various leaders are talking about C-SPAN. | ||
| Again, I cannot thank you enough. | ||
| You guys are the go-to station. | ||
| Have a very good day, Greta. | ||
| Jimbo, we appreciate that. | ||
| Politics section of the Washington Times this morning, speaking of Congress, House moves to codify Trump's Gulf of America. | ||
| That is what was debated and voted on on the floor yesterday, and you can watch coverage of that on our website and our free mobile apps, cspan.org and c-SPAN now. | ||
| And then here's another story from the Washington Times, one brought up by a viewer earlier, Republican search for waste to cut in food stamp program. | ||
| That is part of the debate over this budget reconciliation bill. | ||
| David in Mainville, Ohio, Democratic caller. | ||
| David, what's on your mind? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| Thank you for taking my call. | ||
| I was inspired by your guests the other day talking about tariffs and tried to call that day but didn't make it in. | ||
| I just wanted to say to everybody that executive orders are not policy and that for anyone to use the word policy in relation to executive orders is just the wrong description. | ||
| But really what I really want to talk about is that tariffs should not be used that would instigate trade wars. | ||
| It's really horrible. | ||
| But what's really besetting to this country is how bad the housing crisis is and the cost of mortgages and rents. | ||
| And it's just so horrible. | ||
| And when people talk about infl, when officials and people talk about inflation, I very seldomly hear anything about the realist, how catastrophic the real estate market is, how costs are so high. | ||
| And, you know, we hear about eggs and grocery prices and gasoline, which fluctuates every day. | ||
| Well, hey, David. | ||
| David, let me just stop you there because Kevin has said he might be talking about the economy right now with reporters in the driveway at the White House. | ||
| Let's listen in. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Thank you, guys. | ||
| I don't want to get too wet. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, did I do that to you? | |
| I know, right? | ||
| When I walked out, can I ask you a question? | ||
| One last question. | ||
| Okay, I'm sorry if I missed this when they are asked, but about Trump's post this morning about reducing China's tariffs almost by half. | ||
| Scott Dessett and Jameson Greer are going into the negotiations with an open mind, working closely with their colleagues. | ||
| And there won't be news about what happens to tariffs or other things until after the talks are finished. | ||
| All that will be worked out during the negotiations in Geneva. | ||
| Thanks, Yes. | ||
| Thank you so much, Kevin. | ||
| Appreciate it. | ||
| At a rainy White House this morning, Kevin Hasset, who's one of the president's top economic advisors there, fielding questions from reporters, the last one there about tariffs on China, the president posting on Truth Social earlier this morning that perhaps reducing it from 145% to 80% is on the table when his Treasury Secretary and Trade Representative meet in Geneva, Switzerland with their Chinese counterparts. | ||
| That is taking place over the weekend. | ||
| That news following the announcement by the President in the Oval Office yesterday that the U.S. and U.K. have struck a trade deal, the first of the second administration, following so-called Liberation Day in early April when the President raised tariffs on all 18 trading partners. | ||
| From the Wall Street Journal's reporting on this new trade pact, they say the pact, which appeared to have been put together hastily by the U.S. and U.K. officials, is fairly limited in scope. | ||
| The Trump administration agreed to roll back tariffs imposed on British steel and automobiles in exchange for purchasing Boeing jets and giving U.S. farmers greater access to U.S. markets. | ||
| However, the 10% tariff stays in place. | ||
| It's the 25% tariffs on aluminum and automobiles that is going to be exempted in exchange for access to their markets and the Boeing jets. | ||
| This is the business and finance section of the Wall Street Journal. | ||
| Dow rallies on trade progress is the headline. | ||
| Greg Ip, who writes a column for the Wall Street Journal this morning, notes that the stocks rallied not because investors see the deal as good for U.S. growth, but because they see it as making further deals more likely. | ||
| Jimmy in Athens, Georgia, good morning to you. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, Greta. | |
| Thank you for taking my call. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I guess I'd like to call and congratulate Robert Francis Prevost for becoming Pope Leo XIV. | |
| And why are you congratulating him? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Because it's a great honor to be a Pope. | |
| And he's had a great life. | ||
| And it's just something that I'm glad an American finally got to do it. | ||
| And I'm also going to remind everyone that he is still eligible to be President of the United States. | ||
| And I would vote for him over our current president. | ||
| And hopefully you will too. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Have a great day. | ||
| All right, Jimmy, you still there? | ||
| Oh, we lost Jimmy. | ||
| He's 69 years old, Pope Leo XIV. | ||
| Elected as the 267th Pope in the church's 2,000-year history. | ||
| He becomes the first American following the first Latin American with Pope Francis. | ||
| Steve in Tampa, Florida, Republican. | ||
| We're an open forum. | ||
| Steve, good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Greta, I think it would be appropriate if Washington Journal ran a poll asking everybody where they get their news from. | ||
| I think you would find that the Amish proverb, which says, when you're looking for something, you find what you want to see. | ||
| And I think you would see that the people follow the media that tell them what they want to hear. | ||
| I think that has become a major problem in separating people's viewpoint and not willing to look for the truth by looking at different media. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Steve, we often have that conversation here on the Washington Journal. | ||
| Not scientific, but in a way, a survey by having a conversation with our audience across the country, where do you get your news? | ||
| Catherine, in Birmingham, Alabama, Independent, good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Listen, I just have a quick question. | ||
| I heard something yesterday on the news. | ||
| It bothered me dreadfully. | ||
| And I'm wondering if anybody else heard it, or even you. | ||
| I don't think I have a problem with my hearing, but this is it: that the House is going to bring up a bill to use U.S. dollars to back Trump's Bitcoin scam. | ||
| And I just wonder if anybody heard that besides me. | ||
| I think that's the most dreadful thing I've heard in a long time. | ||
| And it's a good way to rip America off one more time. | ||
| But I just wondered if that's in a paper anywhere. | ||
| I've been looking. | ||
| I haven't seen it, but I promise you, I did hear that. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, Catherine, let me look real quick, and our producer can look as well, see if we can find that for you this morning and see if we see that reported anywhere else. | ||
| Arlene in Portage Maine, Independent. | ||
| Go ahead, Arlene. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, I am calling in about the Pope situation. | |
| And from everything I've been reading, the Vatican is very much in debt. | ||
| And so politically speaking, they selected an American cardinal to be Pope with the intent of getting more money out of America because, after all, we have more money than anybody else in the world. | ||
| And that was the only reason. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, Arlene, that is reported in one of the papers this morning about the Vatican's financial situation and that this new Pope has that responsibility as well. | ||
| Another update for you from Capitol Hill. | ||
| Yesterday, C-SPAN cameras were before one of the Center Commerce Committee where several tech executives, including OpenAI CEO Sam Altman, were there talking about how the U.S. can stay competitive in the field of AI, artificial intelligence. | ||
| Take a look. | ||
| Who's winning? | ||
| America or China? | ||
| If the answer is America, how close is China to us? | ||
| And what do we do to make sure the answer remains America will win? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mr. Altman, we'll start with you. | |
| It is our belief that the American models, including some models from our company, OpenAI, and Google and others, are the best models in the world. | ||
| It's very hard to say how far ahead we are, but I would say not a huge amount of time. | ||
| And I think to continue that leadership position and the influence that comes with that, and all of the incredible benefits of the world using American technology, products, and services, the things that my colleagues have spoken about here, the need to win in infrastructure, sensible regulation that does not slow us down, this sort of spirit of innovation and entrepreneurship that I think is a uniquely American thing in the world. | ||
| None of this is rocket science. | ||
| We just need to keep doing the things that have worked for so long and not make a silly mistake. | ||
| Sam Altman, the CEO of OpenAI, one of the tech executives sitting before members of the Senate Commerce Committee yesterday. | ||
| You can watch our coverage if you go to c-span.org or our free video mobile app C-SPAN now. | ||
| We're an open forum, any public policy or political issue. | ||
| Michael in Mesa, Arizona, Republican. | ||
| Michael, what's on your mind? | ||
|
unidentified
|
We're running out of money to sustain what's going on in this country. | |
| We have an incredible debt that we can't pay. | ||
| And generations in the future will not be able to live in America. | ||
| Michael, do you like what Republicans are talking about doing with tax cuts and the potential to add to the nation's deficit in debt? | ||
|
unidentified
|
We can't get two parties together to do anything to help citizens, and that's killing this country. | |
| All right. | ||
| Mark and Lindell, Pennsylvania, Democratic caller. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Thanks a lot for taking the call. | ||
| Quick comment on the point made by the caller from Alabama about the Trump family and cryptocurrencies or meme coins. | ||
| The emoluments clause is being violated by the Trump family, or by Trump, I should say. | ||
| And that is an impeachable offense. | ||
| It's extraordinary that this gentleman has become our president. | ||
| He is a criminal, and he has violated his oath of office many times. | ||
| I just would like the American public and the voters to look up the word cacistocracy, K-A-K-I-S-T-O-C-R-A-C-Y, cacistocracy. | ||
| But again, violating the Emile Minutes Clause so openly and blatantly is an impeachable offense. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Michael in Massachusetts, Independent. | ||
| Hi, Michael. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Thank you for calling, taking the call. | ||
| A previous caller mentioned doing a poll for where you get your information. | ||
| Now, I have a question. | ||
| What happens when you do your due diligence, where you look at all sides, both sides, and eventually you have to come to the conclusion that one side is right and one side is wrong? | ||
| And you can have all the opinion you want in the world, but right is right and wrong is wrong. | ||
| And what do you do when you decide that the other side is critically wrong? | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| All right, Michael, from Fortune.com, a couple of you have mentioned Bitcoin, how the Trump family is poised to profit from a $2 billion Middle East crypto deal that uses their stablecoin. | ||
| President Trump and his family, his family's crypto entanglements keep growing. | ||
| The latest example came last week when the Trump son Eric announced that the Emirati venture firm will use stablecoins issued by World Liberty Financial, the family's blockchain company, to pay for its recent $2 billion investment into the crypto exchange. | ||
| That is from Fortune.com. | ||
| There are several other stories written about that. | ||
| Alicia in Burleson, Texas, Republican Alicia, let's hear from you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Thank you for taking my call. | ||
| I'm just calling because I am so tired of these callers that keep saying he's a convicted felon, convicted felon, and don't seem to realize that that was just a lot of BS. | ||
| Why don't they talk about the lady that bought the charges, Letitia James? | ||
| Let's talk about her and the stuff that she did. | ||
| We had to put up with Biden for four years. | ||
| Some of us are not happy with what he did. | ||
| Biden was probably the worst president, but he was still my president. | ||
| And I just think that people need to get over this. | ||
| A convicted felon. | ||
| We're not buying it. | ||
| The Democrats have lost all credibility with the American public. | ||
| So they just now need to deal with the consequences. | ||
| Set back. | ||
| Let him finish his term and see what kind of better things you are going to have in store for us. | ||
| Stop this, a convicted felon. | ||
| I am so tired of hearing that. | ||
| All right, Alicia, there in Texas. | ||
| More from C-SPAN's coverage of Capitol Hill from Wednesday's hearing when House Appropriations Chair Rosa DeLauro, Democrat of Connecticut, asked then-acting FEMA Administrator Cameron Hamilton if the Trump administration plans to eliminate FEMA. | ||
| Yesterday, the Secretary testified, Secretary Noam testified. | ||
| Quite honestly, I found her responses confusing and inadequate. | ||
| In response to my question, asking her about whether or not this administration seeks to eliminate FEMA, this was her response. | ||
| And I quote, President Trump has been very clear since the beginning that he believes that FEMA and its response in many, many circumstances has failed the American people and that FEMA as it exists today should be eliminated and empowering states to respond to disasters with federal government support. | ||
| A clear answer. | ||
| Does this administration seek to eliminate FEMA? | ||
| And do you support eliminating FEMA? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mr. Chairman, would you like me to answer the question? | |
| Please. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm not going to let you off that easy. | |
| Please. | ||
| I'm never going to ask you personally. | ||
| No, I completely understand. | ||
| As the senior advisor to the president on disasters and emergency management and to the Secretary of Homeland Security, I do not believe it is in the best interest of the American people to eliminate the Federal Emergency Management Agency. | ||
| Having said that, I'm not in a position to make decisions and impact outcomes on whether or not a determination such as consequential as that should be made. | ||
| That is a conversation that should be had between the President of the United States and this governing body on identifying the exact ways and methodologies in which what is prudent for federal investment and what is not. | ||
| Well, that's why I say it was a confusing answer, because I can only determine from that answer that FEMA, as it exists today, should be eliminated. | ||
| Those are not my words. | ||
| Eliminated. | ||
| And so I hear your answer, and it should be, you know, between the executive and the governing body, because we are the United States Congress that makes those decisions. | ||
| C-SPAN cameras were there on Wednesday to capture that moment, the exchange between Rosa Delauro and the Democrat and the acting FEMA administrator. | ||
| One day later, CNN's headline. | ||
| Trump's acting FEMA chief fired a day after breaking from the administration. | ||
| Janet in Tucson, Arizona and Independent. | ||
| Janet, good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I would just like to say that the beginning of our troubles with air traffic controllers began with Ronald Reagan when he fired all the controllers back in the day. | ||
| Our country is full of apathy because of technology mind control. | ||
| We are all like lemons. | ||
| There is no mandate with Trump because many of the people didn't vote at all. | ||
| And that's all I have to say. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Linda, Ottawa, Ohio. | ||
| Democratic caller. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| After listening to all these callers and realizing how they are so concerned about issues that matter like Social Security, like FEMA, why is Congress, mainly the House, why are they wasting all this time debating on whether the name for the Gulf of Mexico should be changed to the Gulf of America? | ||
| That is just totally, in my opinion, it's so ridiculous. | ||
| There are so many other important issues that have to be dealt with. | ||
| So when they say when the Trump administration says waste, there's waste for you. | ||
| So America, please wake up. | ||
| All right, Linda. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Let's go to that. | |
| Yeah, let's go to that debate. | ||
| On the floor yesterday, here is Congresswoman Republican from Georgia, Marjorie Taylor Greene, on renaming Gulf of Mexico as the Gulf of America. | ||
| The American people deserve pride in their country, and they deserve pride in the waters that we own, that we protect with our military and our Coast Guard and all of the businesses that prosper along these waters. | ||
| But Democrats today are outraged. | ||
| They're outraged because they love the cartels more than any other people in the world, more than the American people. | ||
| They spent the past four years funding and voting for policies that ripped our borders open and allowed our country to be invaded by millions and millions of people. | ||
| Drugs and fentanyl that murdered over 300 Americans every single day, human trafficking, child sex trafficking, terrorists, and millions of people that we have no idea where they are in the interior of this country. | ||
| Democrats are outraged today because they are America last, and they hate anything that would give the American people pride. | ||
| What Republicans have decided to spend this entire legislative day doing is a debate, a bill to rename the Gulf of Mexico. | ||
| Now, in some ways, I guess the American people can be thankful because this week, what Republicans were going to try and do was visit upon the American people the largest Medicaid cut in American history. | ||
| And because Republicans are on the run, they were forced to take that hearing down. | ||
| That battle's not over. | ||
| So, in the absence of their ability to actually jam up hardworking American taxpayers, instead of focusing on things that would make a difference in the lives of the American people, we are here on the House floor, more than 400 years after the fact, debating legislation to rename the Gulf of Mexico. | ||
| From a Republican and a Democrat, two different perspectives on the debate in the House yesterday and vote on renaming of the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America. | ||
| We're an open forum. | ||
| Ben in Fort Covington, New York. | ||
| Democratic caller, let's hear from you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Thank you for your show. | ||
| It's quite a privilege to follow Marjorie Taylor Greene. | ||
| My goodness. | ||
| I'm calling about in this era of pretty sharp cuts in the budget and getting rid of inefficiency and bloating, which I agree the government is full of. | ||
| We never address our actual representatives and senators in how much money they spend in running their offices. | ||
| They have huge staffs who all get salaries and benefits. | ||
| Do any of us really know what they do? | ||
| They get a certain amount of free postage that they get to send. | ||
| And I have to say, half the stuff I get from my elected officials is junk. | ||
| I mean, it really doesn't tell me anything. | ||
| I live in upstate New York, so my senator is Schumer. | ||
| My representative is Stefanik. | ||
| And I really wish they both would get B. | ||
| I mean, I consider myself to be moderate. | ||
| I would love to have C-SPAN have some type of expert in how much each of these people, not just these two, but everybody in Congress spends. | ||
| Why can't they be hit with a 20% decrease? | ||
| I mean, they're hitting Social Security. | ||
| They're hitting the military. | ||
| I think all these people should be nailed too. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| All right. | ||
| That was our caller there. | ||
| Ben in Fort Covington, New York. | ||
| The Hill newspaper has this story from February. | ||
| Want to cut government waste, pay congressional staffers more. | ||
| This is an opinion piece talking about the role that staffers play on Capitol Hill. | ||
| And I believe there's public information about what staffers make on Capitol Hill. | ||
| We'll go to Barrington in Washington, D.C., Democratic caller. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Good morning, America. | ||
| I just want to say one love of America. | ||
| And guys, we've been tested to see if democracy can withstand what we're going through right now. | ||
| I know we can because we are United States of America. | ||
| Thank you and have a blessed day. | ||
| All right, Gary in Pennsylvania, Democratic caller, Gary. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| Thank you for taking the call. | ||
| I want to talk about the lady in Texas that said she's tired about hearing that the guy's a convicted felon. | ||
| And I'm tired of hearing about how the election was fixed in 2020 when it was proven not only by his people, but others and how many recounts there were that it was not fixed. | ||
| That it was a free and fair election. | ||
| And as far as he goes, he's so dumb that in that interview that he just did, they showed the fingers of that guy down that's down in the prison where he had tattoos on his fingers. | ||
| And then above those tattoos was clearly a photo chopped MS-13 written there. | ||
| And he believed that that was part of the tattoo. | ||
| That's how dumb that is. | ||
| All right, Gary, they're in Pennsylvania. | ||
| Well, that does it for Open Forum. | ||
| We're going to take a break. | ||
| When we come back, we'll be joined by Harvard economics professor Kenneth Rogoff to discuss the value and dominance of the U.S. dollar in today's economy and his new book, Our Dollar, Your Problem. | ||
| As Mike said before, I happened to listen to him. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He was on C-SPAN 1. | |
| That's a big upgrade, right? | ||
| But I've read about it in the history books. | ||
| I've seen the C-SPAN footage. | ||
| If it's a really good idea, present it in public view on C-SPAN. | ||
| Every single time I tuned in on TikTok or C-SPAN or YouTube or anything, there were tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people watching. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I went home after the speech and I turned on C-SPAN. | |
| I was on C-SPAN just this week. | ||
| To the American people, now is the time to tune in to C-SPAN. | ||
| They had something $2.50 a gallon. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I saw television a little while ago in between my watching my great friends on C-SPAN. | |
| C-SPAN is televising this right now live. | ||
| So we are not just speaking to Los Angeles, we are speaking to the country. | ||
| American History TV, Saturdays on C-SPAN 2. | ||
| Exploring the people and events that tell the American story. | ||
| This weekend, at 4.30 p.m. Eastern, a discussion on the history of the civil service and government workers with history professors Joseph McCartan from Georgetown University, Margaret Rung from Roosevelt University, and Eric Yellen from the University of Richmond. | ||
| Then at 8 p.m. Eastern on Lectures in History, a look at Native Americans and the American Revolution with Tulane University history professor Keely Smith. | ||
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| Washington Journal continues. | ||
| Joining us this morning is Ken Rogoff. | ||
| He is an economics professor at Harvard University, former chief economist for the International Monetary Fund, and author of a book, Our Dollar, Your Problem, an Insider's View of Seven Turbulent Decades of Global Finance and the Road Ahead. | ||
| Mr. Rogoff, I want to begin with the Federal Reserve chair who had a news conference this week to talk about interest rates. | ||
| We'll hear what he had to say, what he told reporters, and of course, everyone watching, including markets, and then I'll get your response. | ||
| We'll see. | ||
| The administration is entering into negotiations with many countries over tariffs. | ||
| We'll know more with each week and month that goes by about where tariffs are going to land, and we'll know what the effects will be when we start to see those things. | ||
| So we think we'll be learning. | ||
| I can't tell you how long it will take, but for now, it does seem like it's a fairly clear decision for us to wait and see and watch. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So when you say that you don't need to be in a hurry, does that mean that could the outlook change in such a way that a change in your stance could be warranted as soon as your next meeting? | |
| You know, as I said, we are comfortable with our policy stance. | ||
| We think we're in the right place to wait and see how things evolve. | ||
| We don't feel like we need to be in a hurry. | ||
| We feel like it's appropriate to be patient. | ||
| And, you know, when things develop, of course, we have a record of we can move quickly when that's appropriate. | ||
| But we think right now, the appropriate thing to do is to wait and see how things evolve. | ||
| There's so much uncertainty. | ||
| If you talk to businesses or market participants or forecasters, everyone is just waiting to see how developments play out. | ||
| Ken Rogoff, what do you make there of those words from the Federal Reserve Chair? | ||
| Well, he's pretty balanced and objective. | ||
| And to be so balanced and objective with all the attacks that Trump has laid on him is impressive. | ||
| He tries to not pay attention, tries to tell the economy like he sees it. | ||
| And of course, the tariffs are mostly going to be paid by Americans, not foreigners, whatever the president says. | ||
| And that's going to push up prices. | ||
| Not necessarily massively and forever, but we'll have 4% inflation this year. | ||
| And at the same time, of course, it's bad for growth. | ||
| What's particularly bad is just the uncertainty that Chair Powell keeps talking about. | ||
| You know, we just don't know what's coming next. | ||
| The tariffs on China are going to be 80%. | ||
| That's what they were just brought down to, which is still prohibitive. | ||
| Are they going to be 25%? | ||
| What about Mexico? | ||
| What about Canada? | ||
| What about Europe? | ||
| Nobody knows what's going on. | ||
| I'm not even sure, you know, the president in his own mind is quite sure where he's headed. | ||
| So, of course, it's very hard for businesses. | ||
| There is extraordinary uncertainty around this. | ||
| And I think the odds that it tips the U.S. into recession are actually pretty high. | ||
| I would say more than 50-50, despite the fact that the hard numbers are pretty good. | ||
| The economy was very solid when President Trump took over. | ||
| Of course, there are imbalances. | ||
| There's reasons to take actions, things that need to be addressed. | ||
| He acknowledges that this could shake things up. | ||
| But the sooner all this theater is resolved, the easier it'll be for businesses to figure out what to do and move ahead. | ||
| When will that happen? | ||
| As Chair Powell said, who knows? | ||
| How closely do the markets follow the Federal Reserve's chair's words? | ||
| I mean, stunningly closely. | ||
| So it's sort of two things. | ||
| Of course, they care about what he's going to do. | ||
| But I also would say that the Fed sort of synthesizes all this diverse information. | ||
| They have a great staff. | ||
| Everybody talks to them. | ||
| So they're sort of interested in hearing the Fed's take on the economy. | ||
| They don't always agree with it. | ||
| The Fed is by no means always right. | ||
| But I'd say it's a big piece of information what they're doing. | ||
| And actually, the interest rate that the Federal Reserve sets is not your car loan, your mortgage. | ||
| They set this very specialized short-term interest rate, but it influences these other big things, these longer-term interest rates that really drive the economy. | ||
| You write in your book, Our Dollar, Your Problem. | ||
| Central bankers know that speaking to the markets is like talking to your dog. | ||
| A dog is acutely sensitive to its owner's mood and tone of voice, but probably does not fully understand every detail of what is being told. | ||
| Explain. | ||
| Well, I think very often the markets are looking for the mood. | ||
| It's not just reading the words, the expression. | ||
| It's a big difference between, I'm pretty uncertain, or I'm really uncertain, or even if you said it the same way, I'm pretty uncertain. | ||
| It's a big difference. | ||
| They listen to that mood. | ||
| I said that quote in the context of one of the most famous central bank utterances of all time. | ||
| When in the thick of the European debt crisis, where nobody knew how they were going to save Greece, Spain, Italy, the head of the European central bank, that's the central bank of the single currency in Europe, said, and he was reading his written marks, we will do whatever it takes. | ||
| And then in a very emotional remark, he said, and believe me, it will be enough. | ||
| And when the markets heard that, they just said, whoa, he's going to turn the bazooka on the markets. | ||
| And it quickly calmed things down. | ||
| So the tone of voice, what they're saying, often that's what they're looking for. | ||
| In fact, they're often looking for what the chair in those meetings, like you just played a tape from, they're looking for something the chair didn't mean to say. | ||
| Did something spill out that really revealed something that they didn't want to reveal? | ||
| We do have some breaking news that we want to share with our viewers this morning. | ||
| CNN reporting that David Souter, the former Supreme Court justice, has died. | ||
| This is their headline. | ||
| A Bush nominee, that's George H.W. Bush, who veered to the left is what CNN reports, dies at 85. | ||
| He served 19 years on the court. | ||
| If you go to c-span.org, you can find all of his appearances in our video library. | ||
| Ken Rogoff, what is the current health of the U.S. dollar? | ||
| Well, we have dominated the world like really no other currency has. | ||
| Even the British pound, which was that was the big thing in the 19th century when the sun never set on the British Empire. | ||
| The dollar is even more influential. | ||
| Frankly, if you went back 10 years, it was being used in Russia, China, all of Asia. | ||
| It has been in decline the last decade. | ||
| Not the value that's been going up, but the usage has been somewhat in decline by a lot of different measures. | ||
| There's some very simple ones, like what kind of currencies do the world central banks hold? | ||
| That used to be 80% dollars. | ||
| It's down to 57% dollars or something like that now. | ||
| But there are other measures about how much the dollar is being used. | ||
| Why do we care? | ||
| We care because obviously we're going to use it, but the extent other countries are using it, it keeps our interest rates down. | ||
| It means that if you have a mortgage, you have a car loan, these things, some of them are getting pushed out into the world. | ||
| There's an appetite in the Middle East. | ||
| There's an appetite in Singapore. | ||
| And it holds our interest rates down on everything, not just Uncle Sam, but on everything. | ||
| So think half a percent or a percent. | ||
| You know, okay, that might not sound like very much, but when you owe as much as the United States or, you know, even you owe in your mortgage, it's a big deal. | ||
| You write in the book, issuing the global currency is great. | ||
| Being the country that has just lost global currency status, not so much. | ||
| The U.S. dollar is several bad turns away from any such fate. | ||
| The dominant dollar might be middle-aged, but it is still in good health. | ||
| What are some of those several bad turns? | ||
| Well, one just happened. | ||
| I think the tariff wars were really a leg down. | ||
| I argued in my book that the dollar was in decline, not to be replaced yet, but to sort of come down to be more over a decade or two in parallel to the European currency, the Euro. | ||
| The Chinese have their own currency, the Renimbi. | ||
| Frankly, a place that we weren't so far away from 20 years ago. | ||
| But then the last 20 years, the dollar has done very well, partly because of problems in those other areas. | ||
| But if you look at the strengths of the dollar, why is it used so much? | ||
| Certainly one of them is just we're big, but there are others. | ||
| And by use so much, think of it like English. | ||
| I'm not talking about you can have somebody from Algeria talking to someone from Sri Lanka. | ||
| What language do they talk in? | ||
| They're talking in English. | ||
| And think of that's how the role of the dollar. | ||
| But part of the reason that it's such a common language, common currency, is we're big, but there's also the rule of law, our openness to markets, our openness to financial trade, soft power. | ||
| People trust us. | ||
| There are a lot of countries. | ||
| You put your money in the stock market, you buy some of their debt, and you're not just looking at the price. | ||
| You're wondering, will they change their mind and not pay us or cheat us some way? | ||
| That is a big issue with most countries. | ||
| I mean, it's remarkable how many countries have that problem. | ||
| So naturally, people are more reluctant to use it. | ||
| The dollar, the stock market may go up, the stock market may go down, but if you bought, say, Facebook stock meta stock, you own it. | ||
| You're not worried. | ||
| Somebody's going to take it away. | ||
| So the rule of law is very important. | ||
| Our legal system and being open to trade. | ||
| That may sound funny. | ||
| Why should being open to trade matter for people using the dollar? | ||
| Well, think of an extreme. | ||
| If we had the kind of tariffs Trump's put on China on everybody, we'd hardly be trading with anybody. | ||
| And it'd be actually hard to get your money in and out. | ||
| And it turns out that even throwing sand in the wheels, like the 10% tariffs, reduce the demand for holding U.S. assets. | ||
| I think that's a problem over the long run, above and beyond the other things I was talking about, because the U.S., you can complain about our manufacturing, although I think a lot of that's going to be automated in the future. | ||
| You can complain about a lot of things, but we rule in the financial system. | ||
| It's hugely profitable to taxpayers, to everybody. | ||
| And you throw sand in the wheels and you're the world's big debtor. | ||
| You're the country everybody's pouring money into. | ||
| It's going to hurt. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Let's get to calls. | ||
| Cindy in Northport, Florida, Republican. | ||
| We're talking about the U.S. dollar and tariffs. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| Thanks for taking my call. | ||
| I just had a few statements I wanted to make about President Trump. | ||
| Nothing has worked for 50 years and we're trying something new. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He was voted in on that fact of tariffs and making money for our country instead of bleeding the taxpayers dry. | |
| Democrats have done absolutely nothing for years, and at least Donald Trump is trying. | ||
| Okay, Cindy, Cindy, I want to take your point. | ||
| Ken Rogoff, she's saying he's trying something new because what we've done over the past 50 years, she said, isn't working. | ||
| Well, first of all, let's get our head on straight about not working. | ||
| We are the envy of the world. | ||
| You can be in the bottom 20 percentile of the United States and you're richer than by far than the average person in most European countries, Japan. | ||
| The whole world, we are the envy of the whole world. | ||
| And on the whole, the system's worked well. | ||
| The problems, I think, involve domestic policy, not international policy. | ||
| I actually, I teach at Harvard, but believe it or not, I'm probably one of the 3%. | ||
| I regard myself as a centrist, but at Harvard, that makes me a conservative. | ||
| So I'm probably one of the 3% of Harvard professors who identify as a conservative. | ||
| And I think Trump has, you know, got some ideas that he's right about. | ||
| I don't say everything he does is wrong, but I think it's a little silly to say everything he does is right. | ||
| We just assume if he said it, it's true. | ||
| Everybody makes mistakes. | ||
| I think his whole idea about the tariffs, his fetish with the tariffs, is his Achilles heel. | ||
| I think he knows it. | ||
| I think if he were dialing it back and he could start again, he would be doing less. | ||
| I think he is pulling it back. | ||
| I just think this one, he has a model of the world that it's some zero-sum game. | ||
| We're going to compete with them. | ||
| We're going to win. | ||
| If he had just said, if you bring your tariffs down to zero, I'll bring our tariffs down to zero. | ||
| I mean, everyone would have understood that. | ||
| But it isn't just putting in tariffs, which I don't like, but it's not the end of the world. | ||
| What I don't like is the chaos of it. | ||
| I mean, we just cut a deal with the UK, which I think has its issues. | ||
| But, you know, he was telling them one of the conditions he wanted was they had to have free speech. | ||
| I was just over in the UK. | ||
| They're going, free speech. | ||
| We gave you free speech. | ||
| We are, you know, the founder of free speech. | ||
| And you can go on country after country with some of these conditions. | ||
| I'd just like to see it all calm down. | ||
| All taxes cause problems. | ||
| Tariffs are not a particularly great tax. | ||
| But if we put in the tariffs and then was cutting other taxes, I would not complain about it as a package. | ||
| What bothers me is this idea that all the gamesmanship and the deal making, I think, is a lose-lose for everybody. | ||
| We'll go to Greg next. | ||
| Whitewater, Wisconsin, Independent. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, thank you for taking my call. | |
| Professor, I just have a quick question. | ||
| And we talk about the idea of uncertainty in the market. | ||
| And recently, President Trump met with the Canadian Prime Minister. | ||
| And one of the things that Trump had mentioned was the fact he didn't think there was any connection between the United States and Canada. | ||
| Well, just take, for example, the idea of potash fertilizer. | ||
| What impact does that have when you place a tariff on potash, which is something United States farmers use in abundance and we purchase? | ||
| And that goes up and the impact that has on the agricultural market. | ||
| And that's the question I have. | ||
| All right, Greg. | ||
| I used to teach at the University of Wisconsin. | ||
| Love the state. | ||
| And based on that, I know that you know a lot more about the answer to what that's going to do. | ||
| But the general principle is that tariffs hurt the country imposing them much more than they hurt anyone else. | ||
| Precisely for reasons you said. | ||
| Why has the United States just ruled and other countries been held back? | ||
| It's been our openness to trade. | ||
| And yes, we need more redistribution, better health care. | ||
| There are many important ideas in the safety net that have been weak and need to be strengthened. | ||
| But if we put these tariffs on, it creates obstacles for our producers, for our exporters, for all Americans. | ||
| I just throw a story aside. | ||
| I can't help but say it. | ||
| When he put tariffs on in 2018, huge tariffs on washing machines, for example. | ||
| And it's not only raised the prices, but it's lowered the quality dramatically of washing machines and other appliances where he put tariffs. | ||
| I'm sure everyone has their own stories. | ||
| They're really not being made much more in America. | ||
| The quality got lowered to meet the price point. | ||
| I think we're going to see that in a lot of things where high tariffs have been put in place. | ||
| It will seem like the prices haven't gone up until you try to use the product and you'll see you get what you pay for. | ||
| So, Ken Rogoff, then you've heard the president make this argument. | ||
| If tariffs are so bad, why do other countries do them? | ||
| Have them? | ||
| Well, there are countries like India and Brazil, which are the tariff kings until maybe us. | ||
| And how have India and Brazil done? | ||
| Not very well. | ||
| I mean, I love Brazil and I love India. | ||
| I go to Brazil often over the years, and it sort of has this famous saying: Brazil is the country of the future, and it always will be. | ||
| And if you had to look at what's been holding Brazil back, it's absolutely being closed, trying to do everything itself. | ||
| It has amazing natural resources. | ||
| It has amazing people, but it's hard to do everything yourself. | ||
| You say the same thing about India, why China is not as open as it should be to our products. | ||
| There are a lot of problems with trade with China. | ||
| And by the way, I applaud Trump taking that on. | ||
| I think using sharp elbows here is needed. | ||
| Other things have not worked. | ||
| And this is one I agree with him on. | ||
| I hope he really is successful here. | ||
| But India has, you know, just gotten crushed by China. | ||
| And a part of it's because of their tariffs. | ||
| So tariffs make it hard for your industries to develop. | ||
| There's no competitions. | ||
| They don't have an incentive to innovate. | ||
| It's hard to get parts. | ||
| I could go on and on. | ||
| But on the whole, this whole idea that tariff, they're putting tariffs on us, that's terrible for us. | ||
| It's good for them. | ||
| It's actually pretty close to the opposite. | ||
| Let's go to Nelson, Hollywood, Florida, Republican. | ||
| Your question or comment here. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, Mr. Rogoff. | |
| In reading history, I discovered that the United States government, for a significant portion of its history, got most of its revenue through the use of tariffs. | ||
| And by its getting so much money by the use of tariffs, there was no income tax put on the American people except for a short period during the Civil War. | ||
| And when the Woodrow Wilson administration took over, they began to apply income tax. | ||
| It seems to me that the use of tariffs by the Trump administration could go a long way in helping to deal with the $37 trillion deficit that our country currently has. | ||
| All right, Nelson, let's take your point, Nelson. | ||
| So we did have mostly tariffs go back into the 1800s. | ||
| More primitive economies, as many emerging markets say, don't have the capacity to collect income taxes. | ||
| But more to the point, we really weren't spending much outside wars. | ||
| During wars, we used all kinds of taxes during the Civil War and during the Revolutionary War. | ||
| But the rest of the time, the government didn't do much. | ||
| Now, that's a whole question about is our government got too big? | ||
| Is it too small? | ||
| I don't want to try to weigh in on that, but I think we can agree it's way bigger today. | ||
| And you're not going to begin to raise the revenues you need with just tariffs. | ||
| So I want to get back a little bit to the dollar, which my book is about, which is that this is an incredible franchise for us, that we are the global currency, just like it's incredible that everyone speaks English. | ||
| And we pay lower interest rates. | ||
| When there's a crisis like the pandemic, the global financial crisis, we go big. | ||
| We really spend money. | ||
| I think in the pandemic, we spent too much. | ||
| But the rest of the world just looks wide-eyed. | ||
| They know if they did it, their interest rates would go up very fast and it would cut them off. | ||
| Our interest rates do go up and we're starting to pay a price for it as our debt rises, but we're certainly able to do it more than other countries. | ||
| You will notice this, I think, in the next crisis. | ||
| I believe in the next crisis, our privilege has gone down. | ||
| Some of it was coming before Trump. | ||
| Please understand that. | ||
| And I think if Harris had come in, she might have done other things that undermined it. | ||
| I actually finished my book on election day. | ||
| I couldn't touch it after that. | ||
| I didn't know who won. | ||
| I thought they were both problems. | ||
| But I think the tariffs, the uncertainty of the tariffs is quite a leg down. | ||
| It's pushed things to go faster and we will feel it. | ||
| And one further thing about issuing the dominant currency, the central currency, it gives us the ability to impose sanctions and it's actually very good for spying. | ||
| We get so many of the world's transactions turn out to go through the United States, the arteries of the global financial system. | ||
| And as the world diversifies, and that is happening, that'll be less true. | ||
| It'll hurt our national security. | ||
| Our dollar, your problem. | ||
| Whose problem? | ||
| Who are you talking about? | ||
| So the expression comes from the biggest shock that hit the global financial system until this tariff war. | ||
| Mind you, I thought something was coming. | ||
| I didn't know it would come so quick. | ||
| So back in 1971, we were still on the gold standard, not for individuals. | ||
| You and I couldn't have gone in and traded our dollars for gold. | ||
| FDR in the 1930s cut that off. | ||
| Another story. | ||
| But up until that point, if you were any country and your central bank or your treasury had dollars, usually treasury bills rather than dollars, you could take them to the United States and say, we want gold and at a fixed price. | ||
| And Nixon said, everybody knew that might end someday, but they had no idea it was going to end that fast. | ||
| 1971, Nixon proactively said, no, we're done. | ||
| So he sent his Secretary of the Treasury, John R. Connolly, this very colorful man who had been in John F. Kennedy's car the day he was assassinated, the day he was shot, and Connolly himself was injured quite badly, but recovered. | ||
| They sent Connolly over and the Europeans going, what are we going to do? | ||
| What if you inflate the value of this debt so it's not worth anything? | ||
| Connolly said, well, our dollar, your problem. | ||
| So what speaks to me about that and why I chose the title is first, I'm very proud to be an American, greatest country in the world, but I don't like it when we're sort of over the top, arrogant, which that expression was. | ||
| I also find it ironic. | ||
| When we got rid of the gold standard, we actually had no idea how to stabilize inflation. | ||
| We didn't figure that out for a decade. | ||
| It was our problem. | ||
| So, you know, I think we've come to this world again where we're doing things thinking we're pushing it out on the rest of the world. | ||
| But a lot of the problems are going to come home to us. | ||
| It's very parallel. | ||
| Ken Rogoff is our guest here this morning. | ||
| John in Holyoke, Massachusetts, Independent. | ||
| Good morning to you. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you for taking my call. | |
| I have a couple of comments, and please don't cut me off. | ||
| It's going to be the middle-class problem and the poor because that Federal Reserve Central Bank is an international bank and it's not part of the United States. | ||
| I also want people to know, if you want to find something, read it in a book. | ||
| I'm going to tell people, find a book called Rome and Palestine, How the Rothschilds Colonized Palestine. | ||
| And this is why it's going on. | ||
| Okay, all right. | ||
| Those are John's thoughts. | ||
| Will this be a middle-class problem? | ||
| Ken Rogoff. | ||
| No, absolutely. | ||
| When we run these budget deficits, which I believe are unsustainable, both sides had decided for a long time that debt is a free lunch. | ||
| The Republicans believe they could cut taxes and cut taxes and cut spending a little, but mostly cut taxes and just issue debt didn't matter. | ||
| And the Democrats, which, you know, most academics are. | ||
| I don't think that's a good thing at all, but that's how it is, think the same thing. | ||
| They were convinced, absolutely convinced, that interest rates would never be high again. | ||
| And so you just borrow and borrow and it's a free lunch. | ||
| Well, it isn't. | ||
| We had interest rates normalized. | ||
| We should have known that. | ||
| If you are a student of history and you look over long periods, interest rates are sometimes high, they're sometimes low. | ||
| But the idea, which I'm just embarrassed how many people said this, both many economists, policymakers, and others, not to mention politicians, that it's just would never come up. | ||
| Well, you know, the bill is coming due. | ||
| Our interest payments on U.S. debt have more than doubled in a short period. | ||
| They're already higher than our defense spending, and they're soaring. | ||
| And the reason I'm worried about inflation, and which is the caller, I didn't agree with everything the caller said, but about pressure on the middle class and the poor. | ||
| If there's inflation, of course, they're the big losers. | ||
| The wealthy people diversify. | ||
| They hold all sorts of assets that get around inflation. | ||
| But the middle class and the poor will ultimately pay the tax that balances this budget. | ||
| I'm very concerned going forward. | ||
| I think we just have to go forward at this point and not look backwards. | ||
| I'm very concerned going forward that we're not reigning in, or at least reigning in our deficits, and we're sort of moving towards this problem faster and faster. | ||
| And as we lose this privilege of these really low rates we get from the dollar, it's going to make it worse. | ||
| I believe that in the next four years, six years, we're going to have another Biden-era type burst of inflation or worse. | ||
| And it's going to be even less pleasant than it was last time. | ||
| And what is stagflation? | ||
| And could that be also a factor? | ||
| Well, for sure. | ||
| I mean, we're probably, stagflation is when your growth is weak and your inflation is high. | ||
| It's sort of the worst of both worlds. | ||
| We're probably now entering a mild stagflation. | ||
| I don't want to over-dramatize it, but the tariffs are going to be paid by Americans mostly. | ||
| It's a sales tax on imported goods. | ||
| It pushes up prices. | ||
| So that's inflation. | ||
| I think if you look at most of the big banks and top forecasters, they're calling for inflation to go up to 4%. | ||
| I mean, it's nothing like the almost 10% that we had, but it's a lot. | ||
| I mean, it's a lot more than 2% or 0%. | ||
| And at the same time, all this uncertainty seems like it's going to slow output down. | ||
| There is a lot of uncertainty about how all this would be resolved. | ||
| And Greta, you played these comments by Chair Powell at the beginning of this discussion about it. | ||
| There's so much uncertainty. | ||
| Yes, because I just think we don't quite know what's going on. | ||
| But I think stagflation is coming to a theater near you. | ||
| We'll go to Pompano Beach, Florida. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Timothy, Democratic Caller. | |
| Mr. Rocco, just listening to you about this. | ||
| Why do people, I mean, the question is, could Trump have done the tariffs without affecting the market? | ||
| Because I keep hearing people saying, oh, it's going to be when we are paying prices and products that we get from overseas. | ||
| But I think we're paying prices because our retirement funds are being affected now, is paying for these tariffs. | ||
| And I just wondered, could Trump have did this another way without affecting the markets, which a lot of people's retirement funds were sought up into. | ||
| Timothy, let's take that question. | ||
| Ken Rogoff talk about the impact on people's retirement funds. | ||
| Great question. | ||
| So I think what made the markets panic and why they went down, everyone was expecting the tariffs. | ||
| That was sort of baked in. | ||
| And the question in everybody's mind would be at 5%, 10%, 20%. | ||
| If he had just come in and said, I'm going to try putting 10% tariffs on everything from everyone, I mean, people would still be complaining and saying how awful it was. | ||
| We would have managed just fine. | ||
| All taxes caused growth to fall, but he could have fixed something else, deregulation, lower taxes another way. | ||
| The markets would have been fine. | ||
| What spooked the markets was he was talking about really big tariffs on a lot of countries and this whole let's make a deal, the art of the deal philosophy, which was causing uncertainty and chaos. | ||
| And boy, did the markets react. | ||
| As you said. | ||
| Now, it must be said, I think one of Trump's better qualities is that he's a pragmatist. | ||
| He won't admit he was wrong, but he sees when he was wrong and he backtracks. | ||
| And he does that again and again as a policymaker. | ||
| And he's clearly been doing that. | ||
| He's been trying to walk it back. | ||
| He dug a very deep hole because, of course, in the election, he made a big deal. | ||
| Tariffs are beautiful. | ||
| I'm the tariff man. | ||
| And very hard to walk away from that. | ||
| But he could have done all that with just the 10% tariff instead of this art of the deal stuff. | ||
| So that's what made the markets tank. | ||
| And it's not just the uncertainty, but also this feeling of the administration not being as competent as people had hoped. | ||
| I don't know another way to say it. | ||
| I mean, again, I am sympathetic to many things Trump is trying to do. | ||
| I am not, you know, just sort of a die-hard. | ||
| I talk about his economic policies, let's be clear. | ||
| That's what I'm talking about, not his social policies. | ||
| I mean, you know, some of them are going to help growth. | ||
| This one is just wrongheaded. | ||
| And he has a fetish with it, but he should pull back. | ||
| So you said he has admitted a mistake by walking this back. | ||
| What has been, though, the impact on people's retirement funds, and will they make that money back? | ||
| Well, okay. | ||
| A lot of it did come back. | ||
| The market fell. | ||
| I don't have the number quite in my head, but let's say in excess of 20%. | ||
| And now, I don't know, it's down 6 or 7%. | ||
| Again, I didn't look at the numbers yet. | ||
| I don't have it quite right, but a lot of it's come back. | ||
| And let's remember the market was really high. | ||
| So frankly, 6 or 7%, it's terrible. | ||
| But, you know, if you had bought your stock, let's say a year ago, you're still way ahead of where you were. | ||
| So some of it has come back. | ||
| But what I worry about is that the chaos will return. | ||
| I mean, the market, and I want to say the major bank strategists, they seem to believe it's just all going to calm down. | ||
| It's all going to go away. | ||
| But Trump seems to, you know, believe in tariffs. | ||
| He seems to think the uncertainty helps him get things done. | ||
| He wants to break things and then hope they fix themselves better. | ||
| That's a strategy. | ||
| And I hope it all works, but I'm skeptical that we've seen the end of this. | ||
| In fact, I'll go farther and say I'm skeptical that we've seen the worst of it yet. | ||
| Dave in Hale, Michigan, Independent. | ||
| Dave, question or comment here for our guest, Ken Rogoff. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| Hi, Greta. | ||
| And Mr. Rogoff, I'd like some clarification on trying to understand this tax deal. | ||
| I worked on a gas station back in the 70s, and one of the big things they were pushing back then, as you remember, was a road tax. | ||
| Now, when prices went up on the fuel, even if it was one or two cents a gallon, it made a huge difference in the infrastructure plan. | ||
| That's number one. | ||
| Number two, when it comes to my question is, how much revenue do you think in taxes did we lose by giving tax breaks out? | ||
| Number three is what happens to the fishing industry? | ||
| I haven't heard anything about the fishing industry overseas coming into this country versus our fishing industry here, because that's like a big, huge, it's like a tax keeps on falling, but we don't see any results in our tax raise. | ||
| Even insurance companies pile onto these offers. | ||
| So I'll take my answer off the air. | ||
| If you speak of that, please. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| That's a rich variety of questions. | ||
| You know, certainly we are trying as a country to be constantly alert to get treated fairly. | ||
| And I think that's an area where I have a lot of confidence in President Trump's team to do a good job. | ||
| And where we have problems, I hope people are speaking up and we try to fix some of those things. | ||
| You know, that said, you know, there are areas where they're kind of winners and losers. | ||
| And it's, you know, policy's a little harder to make. | ||
| Dana in Jamestown, South Carolina, Republican, you're next. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mr. Hogoff. | |
| I wish you'd have been around when Trump had his first term. | ||
| I think he took the GDP from 9%, 9.7% to 2.7%. | ||
| But we won't hear nothing about that. | ||
| And now in his next term, well, you're in Joe Biden's presidency. | ||
| I wish you'd have been around too. | ||
| And I hope you say your book. | ||
| But let me ask you two questions. | ||
| Should you judge the president in his first 100 days or should you let him graduate? | ||
| Sir, I'd like to ask you another question. | ||
| When you went to college, Harvard, did you get graduated in the first hundred days, or did you have to go through the whole four or eight years before you graduated? | ||
| And you're not the middle class. | ||
| You're the upper class. | ||
| And the only ones really complaining about what Trump's doing is the upper class. | ||
| And that's kind of shocking to me. | ||
| Pine trees, pine trees. | ||
| Dina, Carla, I'm going to jump in and have Mr. Rogoff respond. | ||
| Well, fair enough. | ||
| No, we're going to judge him in 10 years of how it went. | ||
| I can see things where he just turns out to be a genius. | ||
| I think China is the big problem for the United States. | ||
| It is clearly our adversary. | ||
| We try to cooperate with them, but that is the big strategic question. | ||
| And if you wanted to put a positive spin on what President Trump is doing with the tariffs, which by and large, as you can see, I'm pretty negative about, it is dealing with China. | ||
| It's not just that they're not playing fair in trade. | ||
| They steal our intellectual property and stuff like that. | ||
| It's that they are constantly engaged in cyber attacks on all our infrastructure, our businesses, hundreds, thousands a day. | ||
| They're setting up spy equipment in Cuba. | ||
| They're not open to our financial firms. | ||
| You can go on and on. | ||
| And where were we going to be in 30 or 40 years? | ||
| I don't believe China was going to pass us. | ||
| But if they do really well, will we regret it? | ||
| And he's hitting them while they're down. | ||
| In my opinion, you can read about it in my book. | ||
| I think people overrated how strong China was. | ||
| I think China has a lot of problems. | ||
| And they're very weak right now. | ||
| And you're hitting them while they're down. | ||
| And, okay, I'm not sure we needed to declare tariff war on Canada or the United Kingdom. | ||
| But if somehow that got us to the right place in China and it led to a different world, you know, it could be good. | ||
| But it's, you know, very uncertain. | ||
| Ken Rogoff, you said earlier that you like the sharp elbows by the Trump administration when it comes to China. | ||
| There have been others in the Democratic Party, Chuck Schumer, who've called for sharp elbows when it comes to China's currency manipulation. | ||
| Can you talk about that? | ||
| Yeah, you know, the currency manipulation is probably not going on right now. | ||
| In fact, for about 10 years, China's been more struggling not to have their currency go down than to have it go up, believe it or not. | ||
| They definitely were keeping their currency weak before that. | ||
| But I think more recently, it's not so true. | ||
| I mean, bear in mind, the dollar is just strong against everything. | ||
| I think I was talking about the dominance of the dollar, but another thing I talk about in the book is just how high it is. | ||
| Right now, the dollar is as high adjusting for costs as only a couple times in my five-decade career. | ||
| 1985, the Ronald Reagan era, dollar was super high. | ||
| 2002, super high. | ||
| Both times, over a matter of a couple years, it came down 30 and 40 percent. | ||
| It's come down a little bit so far. | ||
| So the dollar is high against the Euro. | ||
| It's high against the Japanese yen. | ||
| It's really not about China. | ||
| I think the dollar will come down. | ||
| I think just there are a lot of forces that are going to bring it down. | ||
| And of course, you know, I think that'll be stabilizing for the world. | ||
| I think the high dollar is a problem for everybody right now, not just the United States. | ||
| Ken Rogoff is an economics professor at Harvard University, also former chief economist for International Monetary Fund. | ||
| Franklin in D.C. here, Democratic caller. | ||
| You're talking with Mr. Rogoff. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Just quickly be mindful of the time and maybe reflect a little bit on your time at the IMF. | |
| I'm wondering, as you talk about the strength of the dollar, one of the things that's helped support that, obviously, is the Washington Consensus, and that's obviously been held up and propagated by the Bretton Woods institutions. | ||
| So I'm wondering how you would reflect on how those institutions, specifically the World Bank, have reacted to Trump and these tariffs. | ||
| There's obviously been a big focus. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Mr. Rogoff, quick response. | ||
| Well, in 2002, I was chief economist at the IMF, and I talked a lot about the strong dollar. | ||
| And I will say the Americans didn't like it when I did. | ||
| I thought the dollar had to come down, and it did. | ||
| I think, by and large, the IMF and the World Bank are very helpful for the United States. | ||
| They do things that we would probably have to do otherwise. | ||
| They're a form of our foreign policy. | ||
| That said, the Trump administration has decided to rethink everything. | ||
| I imagine he's going to rethink them too. |