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April 26, 2025 20:00-21:30 - CSPAN

01:29:58

Washington This Week

Participants

Main

eugene daniels

msnow 05:17

greta brawner

cspan 07:54

sean spicer

14:24

Appearances

donald j trump

admin 01:47

john mcardle

cspan 01:33

karoline leavitt

admin 02:59

pedro echevarria

cspan 01:19

Clips

donald j trump [ai]

admin 00:03

maxwell frost

rep/d 00:26

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Speaker	Time	Text
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Where White House journalists, politicians, and typically the President and First Lady gather to celebrate the First Amendment, the freedom of the press.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		It is a gala in the nation's capital that has drawn Hollywood stars and well-known comedians, but tonight it will be different.
unidentified		No president, no comedian, and very few Hollywood stars.
		We'll talk about the changes.
		We'll talk about the role of the dinner and the relationship between this White House and the media, all coming up on part of C-SPAN's coverage.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		But first, let's go back into the Washington Hilton, into the ballroom, as the folks there gather to take their seats and the dinner gets underway.
unidentified		...of the White House Correspondents Association dinner.
unidentified		Jake Tapper from CNN there on your screen.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		As you can see, the journalists, correspondents, all covering print and TV that cover the White House and beyond are at their tables.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		There's Will Flitzer of CNN as well on your screen.
unidentified		And we are getting ready for the dinner to start here.
unidentified		A little bit of history for you.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		It was first held in 1921, and Calvin Coolidge was the first president to attend the dinner in 1924.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Every president has attended the dinner at least once since 1924, except for the current President Donald Trump in his first administration.
unidentified		He did not go three out of the four years, the fourth year it was canceled due to COVID.
unidentified		Traditionally held on the last Saturday of April at the Washington Hilton Hotel, which just celebrated its 60th anniversary.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Tickets are only sold to news organizations that have White House Correspondents Association members.
		Proceeds from the dinner go towards scholarships for journalism students and other work by the White House Correspondents Association.
		And awards are given to journalists for achievements in news coverage.
unidentified		Again, at the Washington Hilton here in Washington, and you can see that the association is trying to get folks to take their seats, but this is an occasion when people get to rub elbows and talk and they're all dressed up and fondly referred to as NerdProm here in Washington.
		coverage here on C-SPAN.
		Luigi Zhang, Scott Matthews from MSNBC, White House correspondent Jackie Heinrich of Fox News,
		Trevor Honeycutt from Reuters, Producer Sarah Cook of CBS News, Attorney Simon Latkovich,
		And senior Washington correspondent and incoming host of The Weekend at MSNBC, the president of the White House Correspondents Association, Eugene Daniels.
		Ladies and gentlemen, please rise for the nation's colors.
		presented by the Joint Armed Forces Color Guard.
		And please remain standing for our national anthem, performed by the US Marine Band.
		Ladies and
		gentlemen, the president of the Correspondence Association, Sit on down, sit on down.
eugene daniels ▲ ● ▼		Thank you to the U.S. Marine Band and Color Guard led by Master Gunnery Sergeant Duane King.
		Everyone, welcome to the 2025 White House Correspondence Dinner.
		The first was in 1921 with about 50 reporters.
		I am so thankful that you are all here.
		Thank you for pausing your extremely busy lives to celebrate the First Amendment and this association here with us tonight.
		I promise if any breaking news happens, I'll pop back up here, let you all in on it, so you can feel free to let your hair down unless it's too good.
		Then I'm just going to whisper it in my new boss's ear.
unidentified		It'll be a secret.
eugene daniels ▲ ● ▼		This dinner is going to feel a little different than usual.
		There's no president, there's no comedian.
		It's just us.
		Just an intense focus on our fabulous scholarship students who your tickets helped to get here.
		Just a spotlight on our award winners who you will hear from tonight.
		And just a celebration of all of you.
		Thousands of people with a shared commitment to the First Amendment, with a dedication to the public's right to know.
		I know this has been an extremely difficult year for all of you.
		It's been difficult for this association.
		We've been tested, attacked, but every single day our members get up, they run to the White House, plane, train, automobile with one mission, holding the powerful accountable, telling the stories of those who can't tell them for themselves.
		That has never stopped, and it never will.
		Before we get to the food and our program, a special word of thanks.
		To my new work family at MSNBC, Rebecca Cutler, Scott Matthews, Greg Cordyk, Raylin Johnson, and team, thank you for all your support.
		Special shout out to Olivia Seith, who's been helping me all weekend, making sure I don't get late to things.
		To Jackie Alamani, Jonathan K. Park, Robert Zeliger, and our new team.
unidentified		I can't wait to do this with you.
eugene daniels ▲ ● ▼		To my old work family at Politico, especially my old playbook and White House team colleagues, you made me a better journalist and person.
unidentified		Thank you.
		To this board, we have been through the ringgirl.
		I'll outline more of that later.
eugene daniels ▲ ● ▼		We've laughed, yelled, cried together, sometimes at each other.
unidentified		Your perseverance is unmatched.
unidentified		Your dedication unyielding.
eugene daniels ▲ ● ▼		To Steve Thoma, our executive director and President Sherpa, thank you for everything you do, seen and unseen for this association.
		To Simon Lakovich, our lawyer.
		I never thought I'd have to talk to a lawyer as much as I have this year.
		But you have been an amazing advocate on our behalf.
		I also have my family and friends here tonight.
unidentified		My father and namesake, thank you for showing me the importance of teamwork.
eugene daniels ▲ ● ▼		Mama, thank you for always telling me I belong in every single room I find myself in.
		To my siblings, thank you for pushing me to speak my mind and never waver.
		To my in-laws from South Dakota and Colorado, joining your family has been one of the great joys of this life.
unidentified		To the one and only late Daniel Stevens.
eugene daniels ▲ ● ▼		Words fall short.
unidentified		You have gotten the least of me this year.
eugene daniels ▲ ● ▼		I promise we'll fix that soon.
		Maybe I'll let you take me camping one time.
		One time.
		And to the more than 900 members of this association, being among you has been the greatest honor of my life.
		I am proud to stand among you, empowered to call you friends and colleagues.
		For now, enjoy a meals and conversation and our scholarship students who will be coming around getting your business cards and asking you for jobs.
unidentified		I'll be back soon.
		You're watching live coverage at the Washington Hilton of the White House Correspondents Association dinner here on C-SPAN.
		The folks there inside of the ballroom are starting dinner and there will be an award ceremony coming up around 9.30 p.m. Eastern Time.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		In the meantime, here to join us in a conversation this evening about the dinner, the changes this year, the history of it, and the relationship between the White House and the media is two guests I'd like to introduce you to.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		First, Frank Sesno, who is a former CNN Washington Bureau chief, and he's also the Director of Strategic Initiatives at George Washington University.
unidentified		Frank has over 30 years of experience covering Washington and around the world.
		We're also joined by Sean Spicer, former White House Press Secretary, of course, during the first year of the Trump first term of the Trump administration and host of the Sean Spicer Show.
		Thank you both for being here.
		You two have been on opposite sides of the podium in the briefing room.
		Never together.
		At the White House, never together.
		But interestingly enough, because you shared that perspective of being in the room.
		When you think about the dinner, though, tonight, put aside the changes for a second.
		Frank, what is the purpose of it?
		There's a long answer to that.
		Good question.
		Look, I've been to many, many of these dinners as a White House correspondent, and then I had to organize them when I was Bureau Chief over at CNN, getting people in there.
		The purpose of the dinner is meant to bring people together who are covering the White House and who are covered, to have an evening where they can step away from the two sides of the podium and relate to one another as human beings, relax, converse, tell jokes, sometimes those jokes go off the rails, and not take themselves quite so seriously for a moment.
		This is a town that takes itself very seriously.
		And to back off a little bit and to, not that dressing up in black tie is relaxing, but to try to, that's, you know, to have that kind of an event in the evening, that's what it's supposed to be.
		Unfortunately, I think what it's become over the years is a spectacle, too much of that.
		Before President Trump, you know, stopped going and there was sort of this guest arms race, who could bring whom?
		Who was more famous?
		It was an athlete or a Supreme Court justice or a member of Congress or who threw the biggest party.
		The basic purpose of the thing, though, should be what it started out as, which is to bring those who cover and those who are covered together to spend an evening that can be relaxing and to reflect on actually where their jobs overlap.
		Because where they should overlap, both of them, is to be serving the public.
		To be serving the broader public from two sides of the podium, adversarial at times goes with the territory, but to be serving the public.
		Sean Spicer, from your perspective, what's the role of purpose?
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		Frankly, I actually agree with Frank almost on everything you said there, right?
		What it should be and what it's become are two different things.
		It was funny, as Frank was describing that, I couldn't help but think of my own experience in the briefing room, and I thought the briefing and the dinner are very synonymous.
		That what it should be and what it has become are two different things.
		The briefings become a spectacle.
		The dinner's become a spectacle.
		And when I hear Eugene Daniels get up there and talk about the First Amendment, it makes me chuckle because this is an organization that when 440 hard passes were stripped from independent journalists under the Biden White House, none of them said a single thing.
		That association did nothing.
		And when I look at what that dinner could be, I think Frank's absolutely right.
		It could be a really nice night for people to enjoy each other's company, come together for some camaraderie.
		I'm a fan of it.
		I mean, there's some people who say critically it's not a good look for the I disagree with that.
		I think that it is good to know individuals.
		Everybody's got a job to do.
		I respect the job of what journalists do.
		But I think like so many other things in this town, Frank's absolutely right.
		It's become a spectacle.
unidentified		And one of the things when it's done right, and I've been there many years when it's been done right, to be able to sit down at a table over dinner with a member of Congress and a journalist side by side where you're not covering that person, where they're not preening, if that can happen, that's actually a very humanizing, a very good thing.
		But I think what Sean is saying about the spectacle element that I mentioned, that's kind of run away with things.
		You know, I was going back and looking at what previous presidents had said and done over time, and it's quite fascinating.
		I pulled up, you can get the recording of FDR in 1944, and he speaks to the groom and he says, thank you from the bottom of my heart for giving me a wonderful evening of relaxation and pleasure.
		Well, nobody would say that today.
		It's not.
		I mean, some would have a good time.
		And he says, I wish, FDR said, I wish everybody would come to one of these parties.
		Because I think the other thing that they were and could be is you kind of take people behind the scenes a little bit and you see the relationships that can be reported and source or whatever it is.
		Yeah.
		So Sean, this is obviously the president declining the invitation once again.
		What impact does that have on everything the two of you have just said?
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		Well, frankly, I'm very pleased that President Trump has continued to decline it.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		I think being part of that spectacle, I think, elevates the event itself and the organization, which I think in Hollywood terms I'd say is jump the shark.
unidentified		I think they have failed to keep up with the spirit of what they're talking about in terms of the First Amendment.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		They've done a lot to keep people and other voices out of that briefing room and not have their voices heard.
		And I think that President Trump not going there is actually a good thing.
		But it also, look, at the end of the day, if they want to have a dinner, they can have a dinner.
		This is, I mean, the First Amendment, by the way, aside from the ability for recognizing a free press, it also talks about free assembly.
unidentified		If you want to go to an event, go to an event.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		If you don't want to go, don't go.
		And I think that's the beauty of tonight.
		What I think tonight is so amazing to me to see is it's not just who's not there, right?
		During my term, President Trump didn't go.
		I didn't represent the White House's press secretary.
		And then there was a little bit of off and on.
		But two things are very different about this year.
		Number one, when you look at that crowd, there's very few Republicans at all.
		Republicans have now, this has become, they've really drawn a line in the sand.
		The association itself, especially under Eugene Daniels, it's become very, very polarized.
unidentified		But secondly, tonight is the first time that there has ever been a series of alternative events for independent media.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		Steve Bannon and a bunch of guys on the MAGA right are hosting an event.
		Substack is hosting a competing black tie event tonight.
		This is, to me, really going to be, I will be interested to see if this is the last iteration of the dinner as we've known it in the past.
unidentified		I mean, it'll still exist.
		There's no question about it.
		But I do wonder how it goes forward.
		So I would disagree with you on a few things.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		First of all, and I'm sure you'll disagree.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		We were going so well.
unidentified		It had to happen, right?
		Well, throughout the evening, we expect you to agree, disagree, you know.
		Look, I think the White House Correspondents Association, imperfect as it is, this event a spectacle as it has become, nonetheless both have important roles to play in articulating what the First Amendment is and what a free press should be.
		That doesn't mean that everybody in the room does it to your liking or to mine, but that's why they're there.
		I served for many years as a judge on some of the journalism awards that are given out.
		There is impeccable journalism that is done there.
		But I don't disagree with that.
		All right, well, I mean, so far we're good.
		So one thing is the First Amendment is and should be at the core and the White House Correspondents Association has served for that.
		Secondly, I think it's a mistake and very unfortunate for the president not to be there, for him not to be there ratchets, ratchet ratchets down the spectacle quotient, for sure.
		But again, I went back through all the presidents who spoke, often in very forceful ways at odds in this adversarial relationship.
		But they recognized that the people in that room, most of them, not all of them, but most of them, were doing a job, holding them to account, again, imperfect as that may be, and there's a reason for that.
		And I'd say again, I don't, so far I haven't disagreed with anything you're saying.
		When you have an organization, one, on principle, actually didn't live up to the First Amendment.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		They have an opportunity to allow new voices and other media to come in.
unidentified		Who have they not allowed?
		What are you talking about?
		When you read the guidelines of the White House Correspondents Association, they're very strict on who they will let in and not.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		So if it wasn't for this White House, when I was press secretary, I brought in other reporters via Skype.
		Those are all accredited journalists.
		They have very limited who they will allow into the pool, who will they allow to be eligible for seating.
		So they are restrictive in that.
		They don't allow independent voices, independent media.
		They have very strict guidelines as to who can become a member and what you have to adhere to to maintain that.
		That means that right now in this world of independent media operators and new platforms, they're shutting those people out.
		So on principle, they don't agree with that.
		Secondly, on the dinner itself and the current leadership, look, the bottom line is it's led by someone who's openly hostile to the president, was very, very supportive of Kamala Harris and the campaign, and then went out and hired a comedian who publicly said that she didn't want Donald Trump to come to the dinner and that she did not like him.
unidentified		I mean, that's how can you possibly say, but he should come?
unidentified		They made it very clear what they wanted the tone and tenor of this dinner in particular to like.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		And the leader of the organization has made it very clear what his views are as well.
unidentified		And I want to pick up on that point.
		And Frank, you can respond.
		But first I want to show our viewers, because you mentioned the comedian, the comedian getting canceled.
		And I want to show our viewers what Eugene Daniels, the head of the White House Correspondents Association, had to say.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		He sat down for an interview with C-SPAN, and this is what he had to say about canceling the comedian this year.
eugene daniels ▲ ● ▼		I think the factors were, one, what do our members, who are our first and first and foremost, are on our minds at all times, kind of need and want from a dinner, right?
		What is the mood of the press corps?
		And it felt like a comedic performance.
		And we haven't replaced anyone.
unidentified		So we have foreign comedy in general.
unidentified		The types of videos that we're showing on Saturday night are going to be different and look different than they have in the past.
eugene daniels ▲ ● ▼		They're a little more earnest than funny.
		And I think it was, we were making those decisions before we kind of publicized what was happening and that we were foregoing comedy because it's important that the folks in that room feel like the dinner reflects them, right?
		Because the dinner is first and foremost about the WHCA membership.
		It is about the students that we give scholarships and who will be there at the dinner and we spend a lot of time with on Friday.
		It's about the award recipients who, for the first time in a very long time, or maybe in our history, are going to be accepting the awards themselves, talking, because what we wanted to do is have a focus on the journalism and the journalists.
		We wanted to have a celebration of the First Amendment and the work that we are lucky to do.
		We wanted to talk about that at the end of the day, everyone that's in that room who came here to Washington, D.C. came here for public service, right?
		They came here because they want to hold powerful people accountable.
unidentified		And we want to highlight that.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Eugene Daniels, the head of the White House Correspondents Association, sitting down with C-SPAN.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		By the way, if you want to watch the entire interview, you can find it on our website, c-span.org.
unidentified		Frank says, no, what do you think of his explanation there?
		I think his explanation is artful.
		Reading the room, reading the country, right?
		The country, there have been a number of comedians who've been before those dinners, and I've been there sometimes, where it is not awkward, but horrible because their comedy is mean and biting, and they don't read the room.
		They don't read the country.
		They don't read the place where they're at.
		This is a special place.
		And you can be funny, but not be hurtful.
		And, you know, back in 2018, I'm sure you remember this when Michelle Wolfe was there and she took a swipe at Sarah Huckleby Sanders in a really nasty way that the next day, Mika Brzezinski was apologizing and saying that was wrong.
		So I think it's the right call not to have a comedian.
		These are not funny times and they shouldn't be nasty times in ways that further inflames this.
		But I do think, Sean, I'm going to come back to what you're saying before.
		I do think we need to be mindful about this business that you're saying about who they let in and what the White House Correspondent Association does.
		I draw a distinction between a media company and a journalism organization.
		A media company can be anybody with a camera, a microphone, or a website.
		Journalism is about, there are actual standards for journalism.
		Yes.
		And what the White House correspondent has stood for, and I've worked with them and part of it when I was at the White House as a correspondent, is you're supposed to, in journalism, seek the truth.
		You're supposed to provide context.
		You're supposed to correct errors.
		You're supposed to identify your sources, except when you can't, and then explain why you can't.
		You should not be coming at your story with your own agenda, right?
		You should be explaining if you're quoting people who have their agenda and making this clear and transparent to the public.
		Does everybody do this?
		No, but that is what the White House Correspondent Association is supposed to stand for.
		And that's the role they have played traditionally through the years.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		And I think if they followed your cues, we'd be in a much better place.
		The problem is many of those organizations don't do that.
		Many of those journalists don't do that.
		And so when you see new voices come in that, you know, and from the right and the left, frankly, that aren't part of a major media conglomerate that want to come in and present those.
		There's people like Bari Weiss, who is at the New York Times, who's been very successful setting up an amazingly successful platform that I would probably argue still adheres to a lot of the standard settings she has as a journalist.
		She couldn't get accredited under the White House Correspondents Association, right?
		But let's just real quick going to the correct.
unidentified		Because she's now seen as an opinion person and an influence.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		But you have plenty of opinion people from networks that get a credential because they can come under the umbrella of a corporate conglomerate.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		But real quick, just on the comedian, I agree with, I mean, that was a word salad, not to go back, but what Eugene failed to acknowledge to the viewers is he's the one who hired her, who selected her, and then to act like somehow, well, it just wanted to go over.
unidentified		They did a series of interviews after that.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		And she made it very clear.
unidentified		And so it wasn't until the outrage grew tremendously among his own members.
unidentified		But for him to go out there and give that explanation on C-SPAN is highly disingenuous.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Let's pivot to the president's relationship, this president, this White House, and its relationship with the press corps in general.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		I want to show for our viewers the interaction he has had, a compilation of it since he's been in office, almost 100 days.
unidentified		In his first month alone, he took 1,000 questions from members of the press.
unidentified		But take a look.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		These people have served years of jail.
		Their lives have been ruined.
		And in many cases, listen to me for a second.
		Stop interrupting.
		If you look at the American public, the American public is tired of it.
		Take a look at the election.
		Just look at the numbers on the election.
		We won this election in a landslide because the American public is tired of people like you that are just one-sided, horrible people.
unidentified		Mr. President, you're reacting to the story of The Atlantic that said that some of your top cabinet officials and aides have been discussing very sensitive material through Signal and included an Atlantic reporter for that.
unidentified		What is your response to that?
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I don't know anything about it.
		I'm not a big fan of The Atlantic.
		To me, it's a magazine that's going out of business.
unidentified		There's an IG investigation into the Secretary of Defense's use of the Signal app.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're bringing that up again.
		Don't bring that up again.
		Your editors rubble, but that's such a wasted story.
unidentified		What has made you and your team so effective in finding, locating, apprehending, and deporting these violent, illegal migrants?
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I love this guy.
donald j trump [ai] ▲ ● ▼		I wish more people would ask questions like that.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		That's very nice.
		I appreciate it.
		And they have been.
		All you're doing is being fair when you ask a question in that way.
unidentified		Can you take a quick question on government funding to Paul S.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I don't think this is appropriate.
		I respect that, but I don't think it's appropriate.
		I can just tell you government is doing very well, and we're cutting way back, but this is not the appropriate time.
unidentified		Thank you.
karoline leavitt ▲ ● ▼		Is there pain in the market?
unidentified		At some point, you're unwilling to tolerate this idea of what Trump put.
karoline leavitt ▲ ● ▼		Is there a threshold?
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I think your question is so stupid.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Another question, please.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		She has too many questions.
		Wait a minute.
		Can you just also respond to that question?
		Because, you know, it's asked by CNN, and they always ask it with a slant because they're totally slanting because they don't know what's happening.
		That's why nobody's watching them.
unidentified		Mr. President, since you last spoke about it yesterday, some details have come out about your cabinet meeting with Elon Musk and some clashes potentially between Secretary Rubio and Secretary Dollar.
unidentified		I was there.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		You're just a troublemaker.
		And you're not supposed to be asking that question because we're talking about the World Cup.
		But Elon gets along great with Marco, and they're both doing a fantastic job.
		There is no clash.
unidentified		But, Mr. President, bottom line.
		Who were you at?
		NBC.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		No wonder.
		I took a cognitive exam, and I would challenge anybody here to meet those marks because I have a perfect mark.
		Were you impressed by that?
		I am impressed, and I'm not going to take that test.
		But you're not that surprised, right?
unidentified		Not surprised at all.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		You aren't.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		It's good.
unidentified		Any comment about Afghanistan?
		What's your future plans for Afghanistan?
		People, especially Afghanistan?
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I have a little hard time understanding you.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Where are you from?
unidentified		Actually, it's a beautiful voice and a beautiful accent.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		The only problem is I can't understand a word you're saying.
		But I just say this.
		Good luck.
		Live in peace.
unidentified		Go ahead, please.
unidentified		President Trump is second term, the first 100 days interacting with the media.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Sean Spacer, how would you describe those interactions that we've seen in this second term?
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		Two words come to mind, authentic and accessible.
		Look at the different venues that you see the president.
		After four years where we rarely saw President Biden, he didn't interact with the press either in forums like that or in private interviews, one-on-one interviews or with networks.
		You see President Trump over and over again at the White House on the plane at events in the Oval Office multiple times a day in some cases, interacting with the press, answering their questions, sitting down for their interviews.
		And he's authentic.
		You may, you know, not you, but one may not like some of the answers that he gives.
unidentified		But, you know, this is not a poll-tested wordsmith kind of guy.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		You know where he stands on issues.
		I think that this is why he is politically as successful as he is.
		He's authentic and he's accessible.
unidentified		Sean, I mentioned this headline.
		This is from the National Journal.
		Trump took more than 1,000 questions in his first month.
		Yeah.
		He likes talking to the press.
		Yes.
		He loves it.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		I mean, and here's the funny thing.
		You know, he just sat down and it killed me when he sat down on, what, Friday with Jeffrey Goldberg and Ashley Parker and Michael Scheer from the Atlantic, an outlet that he says he said in that clip he doesn't like.
		I don't like.
		And yet, it's, you know, this is not a guy who just takes it all from the MAGA wing of the party.
		He sat down with, you know, he talks to the Washington Post, the New York Times, much to the frustration of a lot of the staff when I was on the staff.
		You know, I'd get a lot of pushback from people who'd say, why is he talking to the Post, to the New York Times, whatever?
unidentified		He'll engage with anybody.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		He sat down with Bob Woodward multiple times for different books.
		And I think, again, this is a huge contrast to the last four years.
		President Trump is an authentic guy.
		He's highly accessible, and you see that over and over again.
unidentified		Let's take a look at the numbers, Frank, before I get to the point.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		By the way, Greg, it's not just those interactions, right?
		How many times is he putting out a truth social post?
		And I've told people all the time, because most people can't believe, they're like, who actually does that?
		I'm like, he does.
unidentified		So you're hearing from them, seeing from them very often.
		Yeah, let me just compare the numbers.
		This is the press conferences as president for President Trump.
		Solo, zero in the second term, but 44 overall.
		Joint, 49, 5 in the second term.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		That's where you see a lot of, they're not necessarily, I don't think we're counting here, you know, the Oval Office conversations that he's having with reporters, a total of 93.
unidentified		Now, how does that compare with President Biden?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		President Biden had 15 solo news conferences over his four years, 22 joint, a total of 37.
unidentified		Now, let's compare that to former President Biden, excuse me, Obama.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Solo, 68, joint, 95, a total of 163.
unidentified		So, Frank, giving you some perspective for you to respond here.
		Well, 100% Sean is right.
		I mean, he is the most accessible president that I have seen.
		He loves cameras, he loves microphones, and he loves talking.
		And he loves talking about himself.
		So that's kind of a good combination.
		What's interesting, though, is, as Sean pointed out, he'll sit down with Bob Woodward, and he knows essentially that Woodward's going to skewer him in the book that gets written, but he sits down and does it.
		Having Goldberg in was really quite extraordinary.
		So the words you used were authentic and accessible.
		Both true.
		Thank you.
		But also, you're welcome.
		But also thin-skinned, insulting, and fast and loose with the truth.
		And that's one of the things that's got journalists so tied up.
		They're doing it.
		I would say my sense overall, somewhat better this time than the first term where they were all so shocked about it, and it was Shaw Carr and eye rolls all the time, and that did not serve them well, journalism well, or the country, as it turns out.
		Let's look at what he's doing.
		Let's look at the implications and the consequences of the actions.
		Let's do the journalism of what's actually taking place, good, bad, or otherwise, and let the chips fall where they may.
		But look, I think that Trump is the most authentic president we've seen in a very long time.
		He just is who he is.
		And lots of people hate it, and lots of people love it.
		And it's a very controversial thing, but what you see is what you get.
		Sean Spicer, is that the president's strategy?
		Is it his strategy to throw so much at the press?
		There's a lot happening at the White House in his first 100 days.
		He talks about a lot of different things.
		Is it a strategy?
		I think there's a little bit of strategy there, but I also think what Frank said is right.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		He just enjoys it.
		He is one of these people where he loves engaging with other people.
		He likes hearing their thoughts.
		He likes bouncing ideas off of them.
		Sometimes, you know, as a staffer, it's frustrating sometimes because you're trying to get something done and he's, hey, Frank, come on in.
		Tell me what you think on this.
		Greta, what do you think?
		And he loves the interaction with people.
		He loves the engagement.
unidentified		So part of it is strategy.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		I don't think he wakes up every day and says, let me throw a grenade out there and see, you know, and but some of it is a little of that, but I think part of it is just his ethos, who he is as an individual.
unidentified		Here's what's really unfortunate and I think very unhealthy.
		I think fundamentally, and you can comment on this.
		Thank you.
		Donald Trump hates being criticized.
		He doesn't like being told he's wrong.
		He wants to be in charge and in command.
		And this is where the collision happens, and this is why the dinner tonight, to come back to why we're here, actually is important again, if it were in a spectacle.
		The press doing their job properly are there to report what's happening and to hold him to account.
		That's what journalists are supposed to do: hold people in power to account, whether it's federal government, national government, state government, municipal government, whether it's a corporation or a church, right?
		And that's what they do.
		And I think the biggest problem that Donald Trump has is he doesn't want to be held to account.
		He doesn't want to be told his tariffs are chaotic or they're going to backfire.
		Or we heard it in the clip that you ran that he won in a landslide.
		He did not win in a landslide.
		He won the seven swing states, but not in a landslide, not the popular vote in a landslide.
		So when you're fast and loose with the truth and people call you on it and you don't like that, that's part of what has set up the underlying deep tension that we've got now.
		So I will disagree with you.
		But here's the beautiful part.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		You don't have to take my word on it.
unidentified		Last week or the week, I think it was two weeks ago on Saturday night, he sat down and had dinner with Bill Maher.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		Bill Maher addressed the dinner on his show last week and said, I criticized him several times.
unidentified		He joked, he laughed, he took it in stride.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		Those aren't my words, those are his, a critic of Donald Trump who said, you know what, he takes it.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		Where I'll differ for you, and I, because I've watched it happen and I've asked people have asked me all the time, how you criticize him does matter.
unidentified		And I think it's not just Donald Trump, but it's anybody.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		If you come to an individual and say, you're a jerk, you're wrong, this is what you've done, most people don't take that too well, regardless if it's Donald Trump, Sean Spicer, Frank Cessno.
unidentified		How you approach Donald Trump with criticism and critique matters.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		But I don't know that it's that different than how you approach a normal individual.
		And I've watched it happen.
		I've given him advice sometimes contrary to his, and he's never yelled at me about critiquing something or criticizing something.
unidentified		How you do it matters.
unidentified		But I also think the context in which he has come to office does matter.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		You've had hoax after hoax after hoax, Hunter Biden's laptop that was suppressed by the media, so many things that he's had to deal with, a weaponized judicial system, somebody like me who sat through the Mueller probe for hours on end, spent tens of thousands of dollars.
		There is a lot that we believe is tilted against us when we look at an institution like the legacy media.
		So there is a lot of room for critique as to how the media has done their job and certain reporters have handled themselves professionally.
		So with all due respect, I mean, you look at Jake Tapper, you pointed him out at the beginning of the show.
unidentified		This is a guy who is writing a book called Original Sin about Biden's Decline, who was probably the number one cover-upover of Biden's decline.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		And so when you're Trump, and you look at this and say, wait a second, these people now the arbiter of the truth.
unidentified		Let's not mix and match too much here, though, Sean, because fair enough.
		I think what we're going to find out is one of the great missed stories, and it really was scandalous, was the decline of Joe Biden and the failure to pursue it as aggressively as it could have been pursued.
		That's completely different, though, from reporting, you know, in brass knuckle ways on the current president of the United States, who in many cases, whether it's Doge or tariffs or whatever, there's been chaos and disorganization and a lot of pain in people's lives.
		And it's fair enough for reporters and journalists to ask about that.
		Fairness is fine.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		Reporters should ask tough questions.
		There's no problem with that.
		But when you're disingenuous with how you report, that's the difference.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		I want to pick up on another difference in this White House compared to previous ones, and that's the amount of cabinet secretaries that you see interacting with the press, too.
unidentified		It's not just the president.
unidentified		It's not just a White House spokesperson.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		The cabinet secretaries will go out to what's called Pebble Beach at the White House for our viewers who don't know.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		They'll be doing a hit on another network, and then they'll come back and they'll talk to the press that has gathered there.
unidentified		Question for you, Sean.
		Is that something the president likes to see?
		Oh, 100%.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I think that what you're touching on, Greta, is so important right now because it's not just, you know, if you contrast that with Biden, it's stark.
		But even with our first term, I joked, I mean, there are several cabinet secretaries that as press secretary and acting communications director, I would say, can you get out there?
		And they'd say, nope.
		You look at every one of these cabinet secretaries, from Lee Zeldon at the EPA, Brooke Rollins, we just saw on the screen there at the Department of Agriculture to Pete Hegset and Scott Bessett, the Treasury, Secretary, Howard Ludnick.
		They've interacted with the media.
		I'll be there on Monday.
		They've been doing a series of events leading up to the 100-day mark where they're bringing in journalists and kind of doing round-robins with these cabinet members and senior executives.
		Look, I think this is great for the country.
		The idea that you're interacting, hearing about the policies, but it is, to your point, something that Donald Trump really thought about as he entered this term, is that having senior officials, cabinet secretaries and other sub-cabinet and senior officials in the White House who will go out and articulate the message and engage, not just with the legacy media types, but podcasts.
		I mean, you look at the interviews that both Secretary Bessett and Secretary Luttnick did with the All-In podcast, which was phenomenal.
		It was just an opportunity to get to hear them in a much more long-form way about why they're constructing certain policies.
		I think, again, regardless of what you think of Trump or the policies, the engagement and the accessibility of the cabinet and senior level folks is unprecedented.
unidentified		Two things.
		Yep.
		Yes, and that's very important.
		And it is actually unusual.
		Typically, you know, and we'd hear about this all the time when you're there reporting it.
		If the president speaks, nobody else is supposed to go out because only the president's voice is supposed to happen.
		In fact, we would have any number of hysterical things where the president would say something and then somebody, cabinet secretary, national security advisor, would come to the briefing room and then speak on background because the president.
		That's just ridiculous.
		And so it's a good thing that the cabinet secretaries are out and the others are out.
		They should be more accessible.
		They should take these questions.
		But again, I'm going to play, whatever I'm playing here, which is it's very important that when they are accessible, they are accessible to the full range of media so that they're sitting down and not just taking friendly questions or even predominantly taking friendly questions, but submitting themselves to an honest grilling, good faith, respectful, but a grilling.
		Because, you know, Mr. Secretary, Madam Secretary, explain how this is happening.
		Here's what your critics think.
		Here's what happened out on Main Street.
		Explain that back to Main Street.
		It's not going so well.
		And they can dispute or whatever, but it's just very important that, again, we make the distinction between media and journalism and opinion, podcasts, and all the rest.
		So, you know, if you're coming to my podcast and the first question I is, Sean, how come you're as great as you are?
		Maybe we're not going to have a two-party question.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		But again, I will say this, and I don't think it all has to be comparison, but I agree with you, okay?
		I don't think it's, to me, it's an all-the-above strategy.
		Go on to as many different platforms as possible because people are consuming media different ways.
		But if, you know, again, part of my critique these days is then where was this level of concern, not from you, Frank, but from others over the last four years?
unidentified		We didn't hear from cabinet secretaries.
		We didn't hear from the president.
		Right.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		And so suddenly to talk about the standard that we should hold this administration to when there wasn't a standard for four years, it really rubs people the wrong way, I think.
unidentified		Sean, I want to talk about not again, not not but just not not Frank, but one.
		I'm not making a comparison.
		No, no, no, no.
		I'm talking about the here and the now.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
unidentified		I want to talk about your old job.
		Who has it now?
		Caroline Lovett.
		Because she sat down with Axios and she talked about the role that she has and how she measures success.
		I want to show her viewers what she had to say.
karoline leavitt ▲ ● ▼		Success to me is being as, again, transparent, as accessible as we can, successfully messaging the president's perspective on the issues of the day.
karoline leavitt ▲ ● ▼		And I view that as my ultimate goal when I go to the podium is knowing the news, knowing what reporters want to hear, knowing what the American public need to hear, and making sure that I'm talking to the president and reflecting exactly what he sees and thinks about the issues that are pressing our country.
unidentified		How often does a question at a briefing surprise you?
karoline leavitt ▲ ● ▼		Not very often, I must say.
		I have a very good staff and I read everything.
		You have to, there's no, again, no shortcut for preparation.
		You have to read and consume all of the news.
		There have been times where I don't know the answer and I am upfront about that in the briefing.
		And I say, look, I don't know where the president stands on that.
		Let me go check and get back to you.
		And by the way, in my office, we take pride in the fact that we do, in fact, follow up with the reporters after the briefing.
		And we try very hard to do that.
unidentified		Caroline Lovett in a conversation with Axios this week.
unidentified		She graduated from St. Anselm College in 2019.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		She worked on Capitol Hill for Representative Elise Stefanik, her former communications director, ran for Congress in 2022.
unidentified		Some political junkies might remember that.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		National spokesperson for a 2024 Trump presidential campaign, the youngest person to serve as White House press secretary.
unidentified		She's 27 years old.
		Frank says, no, what do you think about the job she's doing?
		Well, I was 27 when I was first a White House correspondent.
		So my hat's off to her because I didn't know what the hell I was doing.
		I think I get my first Hill press secretary job, was just shy at 27, and I was sneaking in to the White House correspondents there.
		And there she is behind the podcast.
		I know, I know.
		I was primetime imposter syndrome, but you know, you get through it somehow and you learn as you go.
		Look, I think, you know, Mike McCurry, who was one of your predecessors, said one of the most important things that I ever heard from a press secretary.
		He says, I have two bosses, the Press of the United States and the American public.
		And I think, and he really believed that.
		And Mike was the press secretary during Clinton Lewinsky and the impeachment of Bill Clinton.
		I was the bureau chief at CNN, and it was madness.
		It was a really, really strange and fraught time.
		But Mike had a way.
		Mike said, I will never lie to you.
		And so you could tell when he couldn't say something or he was up against it and he would bob and weave and duck.
		But you knew where he was going.
		And I think that's really important.
		The most important thing, at least, Sean, this is how I feel, and I think we would all probably agree on this, that a press secretary has is their credibility.
		And so how you balance those two bosses.
		the President of the United States and the American public, is very, very tricky.
		And it's difficult when you're in a pressure cooker like this.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		First, I'll say, Mike was, as well as a lot of my other predecessors, were extremely kind.
		I mean, Mike McCurry and Robert Gibbs, Josh Earnest, they're all very kind.
		And it's a small club.
unidentified		I was the 30th White House press secretary.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		And it's a bipartisan kind of thing where people want you to be successful, not because they're agreeing with your policies or your boss necessarily.
		And so I wrote this in my first book, that they were just extremely kind and helpful as I was making that transition into that position.
		Look, I think a couple things are important.
		Number one, for a lot of folks, they've watched the West Wing or see the briefing and think that's the job.
unidentified		I've always told people the briefing's 20% of the job.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		And Caroline's right.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		You know, reporters are coming up to that press office constantly because you might get a question or two, but they've got bigger and longer questions or requests that they want fulfilled.
unidentified		Well, the really good ones, the sensitive ones, they're not going to ask a question.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		Correct, right.
		You don't want, right?
		You know that from your time in CNN.
unidentified		You don't want to give away your big question in the middle of all of your colleagues.
unidentified		You want to go up to the room, close the door and say, hey, I'm working on a story.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		So sometimes people get this impression that the briefing's 80% of the job.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		It's the opposite.
unidentified		But maybe 20.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		I think the other thing that's important, and Caroline emphasizes this and it's critical, is access to the president.
		I've said this over and over again in speeches and events that I've done.
		The job of any press secretary is to speak in lieu of the principal.
		You're not speaking on behalf of yourself or what you think or how you interpret their policies or pronunciations.
unidentified		And I think accessibility to that principle, and Caroline clearly has it.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		I used to speak to him five, ten times a day.
		Because you're going out there and people are asking, what does the president think?
		Not what do you think?
		What does the senior staff think?
unidentified		What does the president think?
unidentified		And President Trump, trust me, you have to say one or two things off balance and he'll make it very clear what he thinks and how to.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		I learned that.
unidentified		From the first day.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		So, right, and I learned that.
		And I think that, look, her access to the president, her bringing in new voices has been excellent.
		And I give her a lot of credit.
		And to your yardstick that you mentioned before, look at who she calls on, right?
		Largely legacy media.
unidentified		This is an opportunity.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		I love what she's done in the briefing room.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		I love her approach to the job.
unidentified		And I've talked to the president about this.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		I think there's wide recognition that she's doing a fantastic job.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Let me pick up on that point because I want to show you what she and our viewers, what she had to say to Axios when they asked her about changing the rules about who gets to decide.
unidentified		Oh, this is actually her from the White House.
unidentified		Excuse me.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Her announcing the decision about who gets to have access to the president and that the responsibility would be taken away from the White House Correspondents Association.
unidentified		Here she is.
karoline leavitt ▲ ● ▼		Asking the President of the United States questions in limited spaces such as the Oval Office in Air Force One is a privilege that unfortunately has only been granted to a few.
		Moving forward, the White House press pool will be determined by the White House press team.
		Legacy outlets who have participated in the press pool for decades will still be allowed to join, fear not.
		But we will also be offering the privilege to well-deserving outlets who have never been allowed to share in this awesome responsibility.
		As part of these changes, we will continue the rotation amongst the five major television networks to ensure the president's remarks are heard far and wide around this world.
		We will add additional streaming services, which reach different audiences than traditional cable and broadcast.
		This is the ever-changing landscape of the media in the United States today.
		We will continue to rotate a print pooler who has the great responsibility of quickly transcribing the president's remarks and disseminating them to the rest of the world.
		And we will add outlets to the print pool rotation who have long been denied the privilege to partake in this experience but are committed to covering this White House beach.
		We will continue to rotate a radio pooler and add other radio hosts who have been denied access, especially local radio hosts who serve as the heartbeat of our country.
		And we will add additional outlets and reporters who are well suited to cover the news of the day and ask substantive questions of the President of the United States depending on the news he is making on that given day.
		As I have said since the first day behind this podium, it's beyond time that the White House press operation reflects the media habits of the American people in 2025, not 1925.
		A select group of DC-based journalists should no longer have a monopoly over the privilege of press access at the White House.
		All journalists, outlets, and voices deserve a seat at this highly coveted table.
unidentified		Caroline Lovitt from behind the podium announcing changes to the pool.
		Frank says, no, what's the pool?
		So the pool is the small group of reporters who represent the rest of the reporters in small spaces.
		The Oval Office, Air Force One.
		President goes to a restaurant, a pool goes with him.
		And they are actually working for the other reporters there.
		So they are the conduit from that small space back to the others.
		One time I was in the press pool, I was on Air Force One.
		The president came back.
		We had a conversation.
		The president made major news.
		You could call directly back from Air Force One to bend the ground and disseminate that information so that others could file.
		So it's sharing the information back to the rest of the pool.
		So that's why the White House Correspondents Association has managed this in the past because the idea, at least the principle, right, is this is the group that's covering the White House.
		This is the accredited crowd.
		We will select those who are most representative of that crowd.
		So there's generally, it's a small group.
		There's a photographer, a videographer, somebody from a television network, a wire service, right?
		One of the wire services, and in the legacy world, print, right?
		So that's what it was.
		And they're serving to be that conduit from that very small space where everybody can't fit, like a rose garden, back to the rest.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We spoke to one of the folks who are in the new media seats, and this person was actually able to be part of the pool recently and spoke highly about the, or just, you know, honored, I think it was the word that this person used to be able to do that and noted how under previous rules, they would not have been able to cover the president that way.
unidentified		Frank says, no, what do you think about the changes?
		Look, I think we have to have an honest conversation about this because there are a lot of purists, and I'm one of them, who thinks that we should have certain standards for those who are present.
		But the fact is that the media landscape in this country has changed so dramatically.
		The fact is that people who are bloggers and podcasters and others are reaching millions of people.
		You may not like it, or like the trend, but Joe Rogan reaches 20 million people across, you know, just Spotify.
		So for the White House to say, look, we want to be accessible, we're going to let those folks in too, the legacy journalists have to get over that.
		There needs to be room at the table for a larger group.
		Well, and that's what's happening, right?
		They're expanding the access.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		So there's more people at the table, I think.
unidentified		And that's still think the White House Correspondents Association should be involved.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Yeah, well, unfortunately, sometimes you wear out your welcome.
		And the White House communication correspondents, I think, abused the privilege that they were given.
		They restricted it, as I said at the outset.
		They refused to let certain people in.
		I think that's to me where they jumped the shark.
		They lost the credibility to do that.
unidentified		Because they were trying to assert standards, right?
unidentified		They were trying to say these are these things.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		They were trying to assert who could come in and who couldn't.
		And again, part of it is, like I said, when I was White House Press Secretary, I brought in local journalists from around the country via Skype.
		So if you lived in Oklahoma or Kansas and would never make it, they hated that as well.
		They literally went on the record saying they didn't like the idea.
		They wanted it.
		The funny story is the first briefing that I ever had when I became press secretary.
		We met with the White House Correspondents Association, and this is, they explained to me how it works.
		They said, when you start a briefing, you'll go through, then you will ask the first question to the AP, and then you will go down the first row.
unidentified		And if you have time, you can work your way backwards as if it was their briefing.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		And I said, unfortunately, that's not going to happen anymore.
		I'll call on who I want to call in.
		The first briefing that I did, Julie Pace, then the AP reporter said, thank you very much, 25 minutes in, signaling what she thought would be the end.
		They would decide when my briefing was over.
		I said, thank you.
		I'm going to keep going.
		And I went on for 45 minutes, asking and taking more questions, right?
		The idea that these people think that that room is theirs, they put their nameplates on the chairs, they got to decide all this.
		This is the people.
		If you believe in transparency, the First Amendment, which we're supposed to be celebrating tonight, I think this is at the core, allowing more voices in there.
		It doesn't dilute what they.
		They still get in their questions.
		They're still getting their exciting.
unidentified		I just have to tell you, Sean, I was a White House correspondent for nearly eight years.
		I never had my life run by the White House Correspondents Association.
		They didn't, I mean, I had my assigned seat.
		I would have liked to have been in the front row.
		And they would just say, you know, it's an upstart now.
		Sure, but they were putting up a lot of things.
		But my point is, that's fine.
		But my point is, what's the harm in inviting more voices in to give them an opportunity to feed their audiences so that if you have two, 300,000 people that watch your channel and you get a chance to ask something that's on the mind of folks, I do two shows a day.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		I do a podcast at six and a live show at nine.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		It's great to be able to have accessibility to say, hey, I got a question from one of my listeners or viewers, and I'd like to have a government official answer it.
unidentified		What's wrong with that?
unidentified		There's nothing wrong with it.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're getting to the top of the hour, and I just want to get in one more conversation with the two of you, and that's about another dust up between this White House and legacy media, the Associated Press.
unidentified		You mentioned that.
		And this battle, legal battle, over the Gulf of America versus the Gulf of Mexico.
		Sean, you're laughing.
		I mean, what?
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think my understanding of this is that it's a lot deeper than that.
unidentified		It's not just one term.
unidentified		The AP puts out a style book.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		That style book is followed by most government officials, the U.S. military, a lot of other breasts, and they don't.
unidentified		They're all across the country and around the world.
unidentified		Right.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		And I think that there was a concern about the bias that the AP has used in its style book to benefit left-leaning, woke terms and words, and then not take any cues from things at this present day.
		You know, look, I'm conflicted in some of this little because I do believe in an all of the above strategy.
		I love what Caroline and the White House are doing to bring new seats in.
		I think the way that they've handled it now by saying, great, you're part of the rotation, but you don't get a daily seat, I'm fine with that.
unidentified		What about restricting their access?
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		But in other words, just to be clear, what they used to have is they were permitted to go into every event all the time.
unidentified		And now they're being treated just like everyone else.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		I think that's fair.
unidentified		They don't get to get to the front of the line just because they're the AP.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		They have exhibited a very liberal bias.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		And if they want to be treated like every other thing, the HuffPost is in the rotation, all these other liberal organizations.
unidentified		I have no problem with that.
sean spicer ▲ ● ▼		They don't get special privileges just because they're the Associated Press.
unidentified		And Frank says, talk about the history of the Associated Press.
		Well, first of all, we'll come back for another hour and talk about this liberal bias because you can't just say that without really demonstrating it and documenting it.
		And we don't have time for that now.
		I work for the Associated Press.
		My first job, when I was at the White House the first time, I was the Associated Press broadcast correspondent.
		The Associated Press is there essentially 24 hours a day.
		They have multiple people there.
		They probably cover the building and the president more closely than anybody else.
		The Associated Press is essentially a cooperative that is bought into by newspapers and news organizations online, television, all the rest, all over the world.
		They have a style book, as you say, that is rigorously pursued.
		So, yes, there's going to be a gigantic debate and discussion about whether it's Gulf of Mexico or Gulf of America, whether the term terrorism is used and where and how.
		Yes, fine.
		And it should be a thoughtful conversation and things change and they need to be transparent about it.
		And if you don't like it, challenge them, take that conversation public.
		But the fact of the matter is that the Associated Press is the most serious news organization, I think.
		Are they perfect?
		No one's perfect.
		The reason that they had that seat at the table or in the pool all the time is because of the continuity of the staff at the White House, their familiarity with everything because they are there generally in major ways over a very long period of time.
		So the Associated Press is, I think, an impeccable news organization.
		I take my hat off to it.
		No one's perfect, but they do an exceptional job.
		And what's happened there is very unfortunate.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Frank Sesno, former journalist and now Director of Strategic Initiatives at George Washington University.
unidentified		At the School of Media and Public Affairs.
		So we do that.
		Get that in there.
		Get that in there.
		Sean Spicer, former White House Press Secretary, host of the Sean Spicer Show.
		Gentlemen, thank you both for the conversation.
		I know we could talk for another hour, but we can't.
		We're going to now turn to our viewers and let them join in in the conversation.
		So thank you very much.
		And we will come back to your phone calls here in just a few minutes.
		Your thoughts on the Trump administration and the media.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		That is our conversation here until this dinner starts at 9:30 p.m. Eastern Time.
		There are the lines on your screen: Republicans 202-748-8921.
		Democrats 202-748-8920.
unidentified		And all others can dial in at 202-748-8922.
		We were talking about the legacy media versus the new media this evening.
		I want to introduce you to one of the new media journalists at the White House.
		Jordan Berman sat down for an interview, now part of the White House briefing.
		C-SPAN's John McCartle spoke with Jordan Berman about getting a seat at the White House.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Jordan Berman is the host of the Unbiased Politics podcast and also brings her political coverage to TikTok and Instagram, where she has about a half million followers.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Jordan Berman, how did you end up in the James Brady briefing room last Friday asking the first question of that day's briefing?
unidentified		Yeah, so the day was amazing.
		But how I ended up there, so the administration had announced this new media seat a couple of months ago.
		And I had gotten a flood of DMs from my listeners asking me to apply for this seat, and I did.
		And interestingly enough, I had received an email a few days before inviting me to lunch.
		Some of the people who work in the new media office in the White House had invited me to a lunch just to hear more about my platform and talk to me about how I got my start.
		And coincidentally, Caroline Levitt was hosting a press briefing that same day.
		And so they said, hey, you know what?
		We just found out there's a press briefing.
		Do you want to sit in the new media seat?
		And I said, yeah, of course.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Explain what you do at the Unbiased Politics podcast.
unidentified		Yeah, I would love to.
		So I, as the name implies, present an unbiased report of what's going on in U.S. politics.
		So every Monday and Thursday, I release new podcast episodes, just basically breaking down the top stories and headlines, but really diving into detail and telling the full story and giving all sides of the facts, because I think, you know, in today's media, sometimes one side or the other is left out of the story.
		And so I just try to paint the full picture for my audience so they are left as informed as possible.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		As a member of the new media world, what's your feelings about what the James Brady briefing room and a White House press briefing means in the world of journalism?
unidentified		I can speak for myself and say that it's incredible.
		For someone like myself who is looking for a bigger platform and to reach a much wider audience, it is an incredible opportunity and experience.
		You know, being in an unbiased news world, it's hard to get that sort of exposure.
		And so I think this offers someone like me an incredible opportunity to speak to millions of people.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Here at DC, a White House press pass is often seen as kind of the ultimate in access.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What is your feelings in the new media world about access and journalism and what that means?
unidentified		Yeah, I think it provides access to people who would have never otherwise had access to this world, right?
		I mean, historically, traditionally, these seats have been reserved for outlets like, you know, these major outlets that currently exist.
		And so I never would have thought, you know, when I started this podcast two and a half years ago, that I too would have this access and this opportunity to have the same opportunity that a lot of these mainstream networks do.
		And it's just, I mean, it's incredible that someone like me is given the same opportunity and access.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		On your podcast, you'll talk about how the mainstream media covers things and what you're doing with the unbiased politics podcast.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		How did it feel being surrounded in the briefing room by the legacy media or the mainstream media as you call them?
unidentified		Yeah, in one sense, it kind of puts, it humanizes the networks a bit, you know what I mean?
		Because you're seeing these people that represent the networks.
		But really, I mean, the press briefing room is kind of quiet.
		No one really talks to each other.
		So I didn't really have any interactions or conversations with any of the journalists.
		But I think they're all there for a similar purpose, which is to ask questions and try to get the most truthful answers as possible.
		And then whatever's left out of those answers, they can take back to the audience and say, hey, you know, here's what the press secretary said.
		Here's what we want you to know.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Did you get a sense at all about how the members of the legacy media and the folks in that room felt, not just about you being there, but also about the new media seat in the briefing room?
unidentified		I didn't get a particular sense.
		It's funny.
		I actually have a little, a funny story for you.
		When I got back to the hotel after and my husband greeted me and we were sort of celebrating this experience and opportunity, he had mentioned that there was one reporter that kind of gave me the side eye as I was talking.
		And, you know, I don't know that it surprises me because I'd imagine when these veteran reporters are in this room and you have someone completely new who's on social media or whatever it is coming into the seat, I'm sure it's a bit foreign and you feel like kind of these people are entering your territory.
		But I think if this tradition continues through, you know, the next administration, whatever that looks like, I think it'll actually end up being a really phenomenal thing.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		How did you decide what you were going to ask?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		You got three questions in about four minutes there.
unidentified		Yeah, great question.
		I, you know, the night before, because your questions have to be relevant, right?
		So, I kind of wanted to wait till the night before to figure out what was going on in the world and what was developing.
		And it just so happens that the day before the press briefing, the House had passed what's called the Safeguard American Voter Eligibility Act.
		And a lot of women have concerns about it.
		And my DMs were just absolutely flooded with questions about the SAVE Act, which I have talked about in the past, but I understand not everyone catches every episode.
		And so I just figured that was a great opportunity to ask the press secretary her thoughts, being a woman herself, her thoughts on this legislation that passed the House.
		And then the second question came from a listener.
		I really wanted to use an opportunity to give America a voice.
		And I thought, what a bet, you know, there's no better opportunity.
		And so, the most recent episode that had gone out, I asked my listeners, if you could ask the administration anything, what would it be?
		I didn't give them any details.
		And I sifted through hundreds of questions and came across one that I felt it related to tariffs and I felt could apply to the most people.
		And so that's what I went with.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		The podcast is the Unbiased Politics Podcast.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		How can viewers find it if they want to check it out?
unidentified		Yeah, the podcast is on all podcast platforms: Apple Podcasts, Spotify.
		It's also available on video on YouTube.
		And there's a ton of podcast platforms out there now, but Apple Podcasts and Spotify are the main ones.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		And TikTok and Instagram as well.
		Jordan Berman is the host and producer of the Unbiased Politics Podcast.
		Appreciate your time.
unidentified		And we are live this evening from the Washington Hilton here in the nation's capital.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		The White House Correspondents Association dinner for 2025 is getting underway.
		The participants, the journalists, the politicians are in the room, in the ballroom, and they have been eating dinner.
		And we expect that the speaking portion, the award portion of the evening, will start in less than 30 minutes.
		We'll continue to watch the room with all of you and get your thoughts this evening on the White House and the media, the relationship between the two.
unidentified		You can begin dialing in now.
		We'll get to your thoughts here in just a minute.
		You can see the Washington Hilton ballroom is packed this evening.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		This is where the dinner has taken place since 1968, the Washington Hilton marking its 60th anniversary this year, a staple here in Washington.
unidentified		Crystal and Fargo, North Dakota, Republican Crystal, good evening to you.
		What do you think about the Trump administration and the media?
		Well, first of all, I want to say what an honor it is to be the first one to call on this special time because I depend on C-SPAN to give me the full story.
		For example, when the American Samoa Fisher people were in the White House at the Oval Office, they were there to talk about the impact of these monumental protections, and it's impeded their ability to fish.
		And then they said, right around the border area of the territory, you've got Chinese ships that are taking away all the fish.
		And I would not have known that if I hadn't watched C-SPAN.
		And the other point, just recently in the Oval Office, in 2010, there were some military guys, they're paraplegiques, injured people, all Purple Heart winners.
		And they were treated with such respect.
		And they got the challenge coin, either the gold coin or the black coin from the president.
		And the interaction they had for probably a good half hour, I would have missed all of that if it had not been for C-SPAN.
		So C-SPAN is my source of credibility.
		And that's the credibility that's jeopardized because of the hostility toward our president.
		He won the election.
		The election is over.
		And I depend on reporters giving me the whole story.
		I don't want the opinion.
		I used to subscribe to a lot of these magazines to get the full story.
		And it got twisted.
		And I dropped my subscriptions.
		Not to save money, but to say, I don't approve of the way your reporters have done these stories.
		Especially if I was at the same event, I'd read about it in a magazine or a newspaper the very next day, and I wouldn't have a clue that I would have been at that event.
		So, Crystal, you're watching C-SPAN so you can see it for yourself and then decide for yourself.
		Yes, and thank you so much.
		I've been enjoying this since 7 o'clock Central Time.
		We ate dinner quick so I could be here and watch it and see it for myself.
		All right.
		Thank you, C-SPAN.
		Well, thank you for joining us this evening.
		Sandy in Essex, New York, Democratic Caller.
		Sandy in Essex, New York, Democratic caller.
		Hi, Sandy.
		Good evening.
		Good evening.
		Thank you.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Sandy, we're getting your thoughts on the president and his relationship with the media as we continue to watch the White House Correspondents Association dinner taking place here in Washington.
unidentified		Would you like my thoughts on the president's approach towards the media?
		Yes, I would.
		Well, basically, it's pretty sad.
		I don't often use the word fascist, but that's what's going on.
		It's terribly upsetting.
		It goes on and on and on in so many different versions.
		Now, in my district, in upstate New York, Elise Stefanik is the Congresswoman.
		And she was to go to the U.N.
		But they ran a risk that she wouldn't be able, the person running in her place wouldn't be able to beat the Democrat that's running against her or against whoever runs.
		His name is Gendebeen.
		He's a dairy farm.
		Blake Peter Gendebeen.
		You can't get coverage on him.
		It's not happening.
		He's a Democrat from Ottensburg, right on the Canadian border.
		He's surrounded by Amish people.
		He's a good guy.
		I've met his wife.
		I've met him.
		They have a couple of kids and a lot of cows they milk.
		And the father was with the Peace Corps with the mother.
		These are good people.
		All right, Sandy.
		Krista in Tampa, Florida, Republican.
		Hi.
		Thank you for the opportunity to let me speak tonight.
		First of all, I think it's absolutely wonderful that President Trump is allowing other people in journalists, different news people, different podcasts, because the thing about it is that as an American, we should support him.
		And anyone that calls him a fascist or a Nazi is absolutely disgusting.
		And they should not even be in America.
		We're supposed to support the president.
		You were supposed to stand up next to the president.
		I didn't like Biden, but he's still the president.
		Okay?
		So different voices out here saved him and saved this country.
		You got to give him a chance and stop embarrassing the America of the United States by calling him all kinds of names.
		He's only been in 100 days.
		All right, Krista.
		That's right.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		The president marking his first 100 days of his second term next week.
		And you heard Krista talk about different types of reporters now allowed at the White House.
		There are several new media outlets that now have access to the White House briefing room as a result of the Trump administration expanding the number of credentialed reporters.
unidentified		C-SPAN's Pedro Etch Varia spoke with one of those reporters recently and here's what they had to say.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		We're joined by Elizabeth Troutman Mitchell.
		She's a White House correspondent for the Daily Signal.
		Thanks for giving us your time.
unidentified		Thanks so much for having me.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		So let's start with the Daily Signal.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		How do you describe it to other people?
unidentified		The Daily Signal is a multimedia news outlet.
		We're covering policy, Congress, now the White House.
		We have a website, a YouTube presence, and we're so excited to be able to expand our reach to covering the White House in the past few months.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And this is because recent changes by the administration put in new outlets into the White House.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		How has that benefited you?
unidentified		It's been wonderful for the Daily Signal because the Daily Signal's hard pass was actually revoked during the Biden administration along with around 440 other journalists.
		So it's so great to have the opportunity to be back.
		I think that everyone can agree that there have been a lot of press briefings, a lot of access for members of the media across the spectrum.
		And so it's been really great to have opportunities to ask questions of the press secretary, attend White House events, and even ask questions from the president.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		How much direct access do you get to key administration officials now being back into the White House?
unidentified		I think that there have been so many opportunities to ask questions of numerous officials.
		They're doing gaggles outside the White House.
		Often there are press conferences where we can speak to various officials.
		So I think that I found the access to be very good so far.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Because of the nature of your publication, do you find that it's more difficult to get access, easier to get access?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		How would you describe that?
unidentified		I think that it's something that has been a really great change for more new, less traditional media outlets that the White House has a new media seat in the briefing room and has a new media spot on pool because I've gotten the opportunity to be on pool, whereas previously I would have been less likely to be able to do that.
unidentified		It's great to be able to have the opportunity to be on pool and even to have had the opportunity to travel with the president.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		When you talk to others in the reporting pool now that you're a part of it, how do you think they perceive you and your publication?
unidentified		I think that the relationship between the new media and the legacy media has largely been pretty friendly.
		I think that we all are working for a similar goal of covering the president.
		Of course, we are standing, the new media is standing to the side and don't have seats, so we're not interacting constantly, but I think that the relationship is pretty good.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		What's been your experience reporting?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		You talked a little bit about the day the day, but what stands out as far as something special now being in the White House and doing the reporting that you're doing?
unidentified		I think that the highlight for me was definitely getting to go on Air Force One and getting to talk to the president on the plane.
unidentified		There's just been so many opportunities to ask the president questions that the press are getting on the daily basis, and so that's just such an honor and an incredible privilege for the press.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		You talked a little bit about your publication and could you clarify this for me?
		I think one time the Daily Signal was associated with the Heritage Foundation.
		Can you explain that?
unidentified		Yes, the Daily Signal was founded by the Heritage Foundation around 10 years ago, but it went independent in June.
unidentified		So for about the past year, we've been an independent news outlet.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		And so just to clarify, do you get any input from the Heritage Foundation itself as far as what you report on?
unidentified		No, I think that the Heritage Foundation experts, of course, have a lot of expertise on policy issues.
unidentified		So sometimes I will talk to them to get more information, more details on policy so that I can understand it better, but no.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		When you talk and you determine what you want to coverage, Elizabeth Trubman Mitchell, what drives you?
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		What determines what you want to cover on any single day at the White House?
unidentified		I think that this administration, of course, has been so news-packed.
		There's just something new happening every single day.
		I'd say I'm particularly interested in covering the education, immigration, social issue type of things.
		There's been a lot going on with those topics in the White House, but of course, just covering everything this administration is doing is more than a full-time job.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Part of the reporting team now at the White House, the Daily Signals, Elizabeth Troutman Mitchell joining us.
pedro echevarria ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for your time.
unidentified		Thank you for having me.
unidentified		And we are back live here this evening from Washington.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Our coverage continues of the White House Correspondents Association dinner.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We expect the speaking portion of the dinner and the awards, the journalism awards to begin around 9:30 p.m. Eastern time.
unidentified		Until then, we're taking your thoughts on the Trump administration and the media.
		We'll go to Reggie, who's in Flint, Michigan.
		Hi, Reggie.
		Hi, how are you?
		Good evening.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		What are your thoughts on the president and how he interacts with the media?
unidentified		Well, quite frankly, I believe that the president is visibly hostile towards the media, and I'm very concerned about that.
		I'm one who believes all politics are local.
		I've been striving to vote independently over the last 10 years of my life.
		And for example, the AP, the machine that it's been able to build over the years, qualified it, in my judgment, to have a permanent seat there and to visibly snub the AP because they won't say Gulf of America instead of Gulf of Mexico is not rocket science to see that that's biased.
		And I believe it's a wonderful thing to have a seat rotating for other media, but it's visible that some of the other media, it appears to me, is media that is favorable to the president versus this liberal-leaning media.
		If he believes is a liberal leaning or mainstream, it appears to me, just from the vantage point that I said at that is being attacked, I like to see Roland Martin unfiltered and some other groups have an opportunity that traditionally wouldn't have an opportunity to be in the correspondence room with the White House media.
		But it just seems hostile to me.
		And it seems like it's not even unclear that it's hostile if you do not espouse his thoughts.
		So sometimes it feels like this new seat for other media is a disguise or guise for being able to disenfranchise and marginalize traditional or mainstream media who have those seats as a result of the infrastructure they built and the credibility they built to be there.
		It doesn't mean that I always agree with their opinion, but it means that they have built the framework to be there.
		And I'll say this: I love C-STAN.
		All right, Reggie.
		Libby in Beaumont, Texas, Democratic caller.
		Libby, good evening to you.
		How are you?
		Good evening.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Libby, what are your thoughts on the Trump administration and the media and this dinner tonight as we watch folks hobnob and rub elbows and chat chat each other up in inside the ballroom at the Washington Hilton?
unidentified		Yes, I am a staunch Democrat.
		I've always voted Democratic.
		So, you know, this man has really been divisive or divisive in this country.
		And it seeds into other countries also.
		I pray for him, believe it or not, but what he has done to our country has just really been at a low point.
		It's like us against them and them against us.
		And I want to know what does he have against brown and black people?
		What is the thought process with him against people like us?
		I mean, we built this country.
		And so, you know, the things that he has said and done, no one should be okay with it, whether you are Republican, Democrat, Independent, whatever.
		All right, Libby.
		Libby there in Beaumont, Texas.
		We're watching the room this evening at the Washington Hilton.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		You just saw Eugene Daniels, who is the chair of the White House Correspondents Association.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		He's running tonight's dinner, and you're going to hear him and see him again this evening coming up here shortly when the dinner portion of the evening is over.
unidentified		Politicians have also attended tonight's festivities.
		And earlier, we ran into, caught up with Representative Maxwell Frost, Democrat of Florida.
		He's at tonight's dinner.
		He was on the red carpet earlier this evening.
		And what was your interest in coming to the dinner?
		You know, I actually was thinking about not coming this year, just a lot of stuff going on at home.
maxwell frost ▲ ● ▼		But because NPR asked me to be one of their guests, I think it's really important at this point to be supporting all press, but especially national public radio, which is completely under attack by the administration.
unidentified		So to show my support, I came tonight.
		There is a lot going on, but you are here.
		It is supposed to be a celebratory night.
		What are you looking forward to seeing?
maxwell frost ▲ ● ▼		I'm here to celebrate the press and celebrate people who are doing this work despite being under attack and despite the First Amendment being under attack by this administration.
unidentified		And so this is one of those examples where joy is an act of resistance in this time.
maxwell frost ▲ ● ▼		And so here to celebrate, but also to center myself with people who are telling the stories of the nation.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Congresswoman Frost on the red carpet earlier this evening talking to C-SPAN.
		You heard him say he's the guest of National Public Radio tonight.
		And that's frequently what happens is that media outlets will invite politicians, cabinet secretaries, Hollywood stars, others to attend the dinner and sit at their table with them.
		The media outlets buying tables at tonight's dinner and the proceeds, as we told you earlier from the dinner, go towards scholarships for journalism students and other work by the White House Correspondents Association.
unidentified		If you want to see more from the red carpet, go to our website, c-span.org.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Julia in Frankport, Kentucky, Republican.
unidentified		Julia, we're talking about the Trump administration and the media this evening.
		Go ahead.
		Greta?
		Yes, Julia.
		It's always a pleasure.
		Yes, I'm a supporter of C-SPAN.
		I really enjoyed your monitoring with Sean Spicer and the former head of CNN.
		It was an interesting conversation.
		And I'm glad to see the pushback against legacy media.
		We were headed down state propaganda, the road for state propaganda with mainstream media.
		And I'm glad that our president Trump is opening it up to just a variety of the new way media is being presented to us and people have a choice.
		Yeah, Julia, what do you think about the president not attending tonight?
		Do you think that was a good decision?
		You listened to the conversation with Frank and Sean.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Did you hear Frank's argument about why he disagreed with Sean?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		He thought the president should be there.
unidentified		Well, I don't agree with Frank.
		Okay.
		I agree.
		No, I don't think the president should be insinuating himself into the Fourth of State.
		You know, No, I just think I agree.
		I'm so glad to see the pushback against the way our mainstream, if you want to call it, CBS, ABC, and variety.
		Understood, Julia.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to jump in because I want to show you and others what Eugene Daniels, the head of the National, the White House Correspondent Association, had to say in an interview with C-SPAN when we asked about the president not attending and if that changed plans for tonight.
eugene daniels ▲ ● ▼		When we started having production meetings last year, at the end of last year with our team, I said, you know, we are going to plan one dinner.
eugene daniels ▲ ● ▼		And if the president comes, that's great.
unidentified		And if he doesn't come, that's great too.
eugene daniels ▲ ● ▼		We will have the exact same dinner minus a little, you know, 20 minutes of when the president would be speaking.
		And the reason is because, again, it's not about the president of the United States.
		It's not about this current president.
		It wasn't about President Biden or President Reagan or President George H.W. Bush.
		It is about the people in that room, the First Amendment, journalism, and our award recipients and the scholarship students.
unidentified		And that is, you know, we're able to really focus on that this year.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Eugene Daniels, the president of the White House Correspondents Association, you can watch our entire interview with him if you go to our website, c-span.org.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We are just moments away here, seconds away from the dinner getting underway.
unidentified		So let's talk to Adam in Minneapolis.
		Democratic caller.
		Adam, your thoughts on the Trump administration and the media.

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